# Engine full of Mud!



## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

Hey my brother has an 04 Titan SE 4x4 Crew Cab with Off road package and big tow package. It is totally stock except he put stock size Goodyear Wrangler MT-R tires on it.

Anyway he was crossing a small creek (2 feet wide 3 inches deep) and the wheels spun so he tried it in 4low and it spun so he locked the rear diff and it still spun anyway this spinning threw mud up in the left front wheel well and the trucke sucked GALLONS of mud in through the airbox, past the filter and into the engine. The engine is totally dead.

Has anyone else had a problem with sucking water or mud in to the airbox, or even blowing the engine like this?

I'm trying to gather any info he can use to help him with insurance or nissan warrenty info on his truck.

Thanks for anyhelp you can get me.

Also think about this before you take your truck off road.

He picked up a 79 Dodge Power Wagon to tie him over until he gets this Titan disaster all worked out!


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## jerryp58 (Jan 6, 2005)

brendanR said:


> Read this thread in the Titan section:
> 
> http://www.nissanforums.com/showthread.php?p=831191#post831191


I would think you'd need pictures or other documentation of the area you drove in 'cause I would think I could cross a 2' wide, 3" deep "creek" with my Frontier 4x2, unless it was in the middle fo a swamp.

Unless you can find some kind of defect in the airbox parts, I would think the fact you were off-road would void any warranty work.

But, hopefully, for your brother's sake, I'm wrong.

Maybe you can shame them into fixing it by telling them a Dodge/Chevy/Ford/Toyota wouldn't have had this probelm.

Good Luck.


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## Slurppie (Oct 15, 2002)

brendanR said:


> Hey my brother has an 04 Titan SE 4x4 Crew Cab with Off road package and big tow package. It is totally stock except he put stock size Goodyear Wrangler MT-R tires on it.
> 
> Anyway he was crossing a small creek (2 feet wide 3 inches deep) and the wheels spun so he tried it in 4low and it spun so he locked the rear diff and it still spun anyway this spinning threw mud up in the left front wheel well and the trucke sucked GALLONS of mud in through the airbox, past the filter and into the engine. The engine is totally dead.


Not trying to be rude but I have a hard time believing this. First off Traction Control should have eliminated the wheels from spinning. Secondly, the inner fender wheel well has a plastic trim cover which would block almost any water/mud/debris. Not to mention that there is a snorkle that mounts to the airbox and runs into the upper fender which would make it almost impossible for water to be sucked up unless your up to the hood in water.


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## Adam (Apr 30, 2002)

Are you kidding? My 88 mighty max could have done better. Good joke.


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

It's not a joke and I'm not some troll just trying to knock the titan. My brother came down from MD to try to help my mom who lives outside of charlottesville, Va to try to help her gather firewood off her mountain land. The land was logged about 4 years ago and all the branches were left on the ground and so are easy pickins. He was driving down one of the fire roads and went to ford the stream and this aweful thing happened to his truck. I posted here to find out if anybody had a similear problem with theirs. 

I live in Myrtle Beach, SC and I'm going to call my mom and get her to take as many pictures as possible and send them to me so we can figure this out, cause otherwide he's out $30,000. Maybe they forgot to put a piece on, and so if they DID then we can do something about it.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

I have to agee with some of the other posts.. Hard to believe.

If he sat there and spun the wheel in a creek then it's his own fault... regradless I can't see how the intake could suck up mud... get by the filter...by the maf...and so on and so on... sounds like your brother or someone isn't telling the entire truth.. he probably drove into a 3' creek...




Slurppie said:


> Not trying to be rude but I have a hard time believing this. First off Traction Control should have eliminated the wheels from spinning. Secondly, the inner fender wheel well has a plastic trim cover which would block almost any water/mud/debris. Not to mention that there is a snorkle that mounts to the airbox and runs into the upper fender which would make it almost impossible for water to be sucked up unless your up to the hood in water.


and what he said!


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

Hey guys,

It doesn't matter if you believe it or not, the fact is it happened. I just called My mom and told her to get as many pics of the truck, engine bay, fender liner and creek, the approch to the creek, the crossing spot and everything. After she gets the pics and has them developed she will send me a copy of them and I'll post them up.

I also called my brother and he said that the plastic fender liner was a little loose from the day he picked it up at the dealer, but he figured that was just the way they are since it was a brand new truck. 

Anyway, the only problem I can see in this situation is that they pulled the truck back out of the creek and into the driveway. We can't get any pics of the truck in the creek unfortunately.


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## SPEEDO (Jun 9, 2003)

the location of the intake is pretty high and it pulls air in from the front.... he had to be in some DEEP water/mud, no way the tires could've kicked mud/water in the intake, he didn't have paddle tires on it... did he? From the info provided so far.... NO WAY. Somebody is not telling to whole story. I would've had to of been there to believe this one and I don't think warranty will either, I am sure it happened, but my question is HOW did it really happen. I mean a 4wd stuck, in a creek 2' wide and 3" deep Hmmmmm, I've had my truck up to the bottom of the doors in water and mud crossing a pond in a 2wd, so excuse me if I seem skeptical


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

Yeah, I don't blame you for being skeptical, it certainly seems far fetched, but the truth is stranger than fiction sometimes. Hopefully I can get those pics real soon and try to figure this out. I've seen this creek, even driven through it myself in an old Toyota and an old Blazier, it's just a ford on a fireroad. I'll keep you guys update on the latest info.


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

Hey, I am going to go up to the mountain and check this out for myself this weekend. My brother will come down from MD and meet me there and we will try to get it figured out. I'll bring my digicam and get the pics myself. I'll post an update on it when I get back.

Also, I called my brother again and talked to him again...I think he was just so pissed that this happened in the first place he might have exagereted the extent of the mud that got sucked up... I think it just filled the airbox and choked out the engine...I really don't think it would have gone all the way past the TB and intake manifold and all that...I only reported what he said "engine full of mud!" I think it will be an easy fix, but we will see. Unfortunatly I think even if we get it fixed pretty easily he might still trade it in on a new dodge diesel. (he has always been a dodge guy...2 power wagons a ram charger and a dart and the Titan which I had convinced him to buy in the first place) I hope we can get it fixed and convince him to keep it and get a lift kit for it, but right now he is really leaning towards the ram.



like I said I'll keep you posted on this.


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

I call BS. :showpics: 

There's no way mud flows past an airbox intake tube, through the airbox, through an air filter, up to the throttlebody and "sucks gallons of mud" into the engine. Water, MAYBE...if it were sunk up to the hood under water. Not in a 2" deep creek, even with wheelspin and the front end sinking into the mud. 

Think, McFly. Where would water normally go when it's raining hard out and you were driving on the freeway? Hmmm, I do believe the tires would throw it up into the wheelwell the exact same way you describe...for hours at a time, as long as you were driving on the freeway in the rain. I've never heard of a Titan engine dying from rainwater being sucked through the filter box, filter, and up into the intake. End of line. :showpics:


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

If you had read my latest post you would have seen that I think my brother is exagerating the problem. I'm getting ready to drive up there now and see what the problem is. Try reading the latest post by the person first before making judgements. I came to this forum for help, not to be ridiculed and called names. If you don't have some help to add then please don't post at all.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

Hopefully the next post from you isn't "help I too sucked up mud into my intake..." 

I had some mud suck into my 93 4Runner when I used to live up in CO but that took some deep moron level off roading... I only found out after I got home and changed the oil and found hard little chunks of mud in the oil pan... AND my mom is still driving that car today...


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

*LONG story*

So I went up and got some pics of the truck. It's not as bad as he thought, but the engine is mostly shot. 
It would start, but then immediately cut off again. I opened the air box and it was full of mud (When it first happened he scooped out as much as he could). I pulled the maf and it was completely caked in mud. I pulled the intake tube from the throttle body and the tb is covered in mud, front and back of the butterfly valve, and as far as we could look down into the manifold. I pulled the spark plugs and they didn't show any problems. I checked the oil on the dipstick and there was white foam (water in the oil), and silver sparkles from the metal in the engine grinding out. We cleaned the maf and reinstalled it and changed the oil and fitler. The oil was full of sand, tiny pieces of rock, dirt clumps, metal specks, and metal shavings as large as 1/2 an inch long and 1/2 a millimeter wide. We flushed several quarts of oil through the engine to get it all out, then after that we fired it up and it ran. 
White smoke just billows out of the exhaust on startup. After it is warmed up it smokes a little at idle and smokes a lot during acceleration. It's got a really bad knocking sound, but it does drive and runs pretty well considering. 

In the pics you can see where the inner fender liner isn't attatched at the front and sags down a couple of inches. THIS combined with the fact that this mud was like soup and his tires are very aggressive and the approach to the creek was softer then expected (his truck was sunk all the way to the running boards) made this happen. 

After getting stuck going forward and realizing he could get across the creek, he put it in reverse, and the front tires spinning backwards is how the mud got thrown up in the front of the fender well. Right after he managed to back out of it is when the engine died. 

The dealer he bought it from in MD has a full lifetime warrenty on all cars and trucks they sell, and it allegedly covers all damages no matter how it happened, anywhere in the county, as long as ALL services are done at that dealer. When he brings the truck in to get the new engine, they'll probably find some loophole so he'll have to pay for it because he thrashed it too hard. Anyway, I talked some sense into him and he's going to get a new engine put in AND have his old engine rebuilt and keep the rebuilt as a back up. He's only going to use it for street use now. His '70 Powerwagon is the offroad truck now.

He knows that this wasnt' Nissan's fault, that it was just a combination of events. Hopefully they'll get his engine in quick...Here's a link to the pics:
http://punkin4675.tripod.com/titanpics/


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

I talked to my bro again, he was able to drive it back to MD, but it burns 2 quarts of oil every 50 miles...He's having it towed to the dealer to have them start looking at it. I'll keep updating this thread to keep you current as I get more info.


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## Slurppie (Oct 15, 2002)

I'm sorry but I still have to call BS on this. Granted the inner fender trim was pulled away on the front the mud would have been slung up the backside if he was traveling forward. Also as covered as the engine compartment is, he would have had to bury the front end. Considering you can see traces of mud in the front end (behind the front grill) I would strongly say he buried it way above his running boards.


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## dflw_99 (Feb 15, 2005)

i would have to agree your tires r not going to sling that much mud inside the engine, i say he buried it


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

If you read my post, you would have seen that he BACKED out of the mud,(that means the tires are spinning backwards) and the mud is therefore thrown off the front of the tire. Also notice that the pass side of the engine bay is very clean (the fender liner is intact on that side) And the Drivers side of the engine bay is very muddy (the fender liner is loose on that side). 

Anyway, I understand that if you are a Titan owner and you love your truck you might not want to admit that such a small creek could take out your truck, and so you feel like the story is BS. But no matter what you might think, the fact remains that this happened exactly as I have told it. 

Again, I'll update when there is more news.


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

He had it towed to the dearership and they said that there is no way his truck could have possibly been stuck in that creek and sucked that much mud into itself. They claim he must have been up to the hood in mud or something like that. And that they will not replace the engine under warrenty. They want to see pictures too and he has 2 rolls of film that he is getting processed and put on CD. 

So my brother has been talking to a good lawyer who deals with this kind of stuff...I haven't heard if he thinks the case is strong or not yet but he does need a little info.....

If your fender liner has popped off or come loose under normal to mild conditions please tell me. The more people we can find who have had that problem with their truck the more the lawyer can show it to be a flaw in the design of the clips that hold it in place.



I'll update again when I have news.


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

OK, so his lawyer is going to bring it to court...hopefully a settlement can be had outside of court, but we'll see.

More info as I get it.


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## Blank (Aug 21, 2003)

brendanR, i really dont support your brothers story, i think it was a little more extreme then he is making it out to be BUT... i think you should check out the current issue of motor trend April 05 vol57 no 4... with the new BMW 3 series on the cover... page 146, long term tests on Nissan Titan, brought back to the dealer at 7500 miles for routine maitnance PLUS *reattach a loose wheel well liner...* this wasnt listed in the problem areas, just mentioned, but it is interesting for your bro...


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

Thanks man, I'll make sure to mention it to him, but it is EXACTLY as I have told it.


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## 4wheelinbroncos (Mar 7, 2005)

I dont own a titan but i do own a ford bronco that i take to the mudboggs ragularly and have never heard of the engine sucking that much mud when going though a 3inch deep crossing when i come back from mudboggin my engine bay has more mud than you can imagine and it still runs fine with the design of the air box not being a open element i would have to think that the titan was above the hood in water not up to the running boards unless he has a problem with the truck having a break between the snorcal and the filter but even if the liner in the fender was attached he would still sling alot of mud into the engine bay


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## SPEEDO (Jun 9, 2003)

How did the mud get pass the air filter? there was one in there... right? I mean, even if it was muddy water the air filter would of kept the mud out of the MAF, dont you think? I would think the entire intake would have to be under water to suck up that much.... Has anyone called Ripleys yet!!
Sorry, but its hard for me to believe


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## agentbook (Jun 2, 2002)

I have to agree he buried that thing, there is no way in that creek he did that much damage. He has grass stuck in the top of the wheel liner, which makes it look like he had that thing buried.

It would take deep mud and water to get that much dirt through the filter and MAF and into the engine.

Anyways best of luck to you but your brother is screwed, no dealer will warranty that, and Nissan would agree, they will say he was offroading and buried the front end and didnt know what he was doing (which if your story is true that is the case).

He might as well open his wallet and shell out the coin for a new engine.


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## Scratchbc (Mar 7, 2005)

There is something that is botherin me about these pictures. 

1) The engin bay is covered in mud on the drivers side however the exterior passenger side is covered in mud and the driver side is clean.

2) for slinging that much mud thoes wheeles a pretty clean

3) there's grass and other crap shuved up in the fender and whele well

My street / ralley GTI could make it through that infact its been through much more!

did this happen While it was raining? If the road Was flodded it would make a little more sence but so far.


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

Ok guys, I don't have any new news, but I'll answer to a few of the recent posts.

The grass in the wheel wells is because my Moms driveway is a mile long and goes through a large horse field with about waist high grass. Also there is longish grass in the woods along the fire road where he was driving. 

The filter element was just a stock paper element, The soupy mud just saturated the element and it sogged out and tore, rendering it useless. 

The pass side of the truck is muddy from the tire throwing mud while going forward. Then after shifting to reverse the Drivers tire spinning backward threw mud forward, directly through the gap in the fender liner...you can see the splatter patterns as the mud came up from the front of the fender and bounced off the underside of the hood.

The truck and wheels seem pretty clean, because the mud was as I said very soupy, The soil on the mountain and in the streams there is sandy-loam and when you mix that with a good amount of running water it just turns to soup. This sort of thin mud, just runs off of verticle surfaces.

And it was not the stream that stuck the truck, the rear tires got stuck in the thicker mud approaching the creek and that put the front tires directly in the creek. After the truck settled down to the boards and got totally stuck in forward gears...(if he left it at that and used Moms jeep to pull him out backwards everything would have been fine)...but instead he tried to drive out in reverse, he was able to drive it out in reverse, but that is exactly what allowed the mud to fling up straight to the airbox through the sagging fender liner.

And I agree about the GTI....I have an 86 GTI (245Kmiles) completely gutted and I run very agressive trail tires on it And it has been back in this area...not across that creak, but back on those fire roads anyway, that car's a tank.

Anyway, if you agree with what I say on here or if you think it is a bunch of crap, it makes no difference to the fact that it really happened. His lawyer is doing a full investigation and they are going to present the case to Nissan. We'll see how it turns out, Maybe pretty well, but even if it goes the worst possible, he'll just need to buy a new engine. 

More updates as they come.


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## agentbook (Jun 2, 2002)

The other thing that bothers me is that if the filter was full of mud and water it should have choked the engine and it should have stalled before it got any further.

It is still boggling me that it filled the box, coated the MAF, went through the throttle body and killed the engine, when in fact it should have stalled before then.


Oh and his lawyer wont be able to do crap, they dont warranty stupidity, sorry.

Like I said he should just save the money for the lawyer and buy the new engine, instead of paying double which is what he will likely have to do, pay the lawyer and buy the engine, not to mention the transmission, and transfer case that might have been damaged in the spinning and locking the rear also. 

Hope he brings the lube cause this is going to cost your brother a whole lot of money

Edit: Scratchbc this is the pic you were looking for


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

Alright here's the latest...
I told my brother about the motor trend article and he got a copy and brought it to his lawyer. He was very happy to see it and things are starting to look pretty good. His lawyer specilizes in cases agains dealers and manufacturers and has a perfect record. And even better for my brother is that the lawyer doesn't want cash payment, he just want's my brother to pave him a new driveway (he has his own paving company). 

Agentbook: why do you say it was just stupidity? Follow me on this one.....
1. You try to cross a little stream 
2. Since it is pretty muddy you put it in 4 low
3. Your rear starts to sink and get stuck a little so you lock it.
4. You find that you are genuinly stuck trying to cross the stream.
5. You put it in reverse and back out of the mud.

Sounds like a perfectly logical and reasonable thing to do.

The error is with Nissan's crappy little screws that hold the fender liner in place....they have a tendancy to pop out and let the liner sag out of place, thus creating a passageway directly grom the front edge of the tire to the inlet of the air box.

Had his fender liner been in place he would have been able to back out of the mud and find an alternate crossing spot, and his truck would be mechanicly sound...just pretty dirty.

Anyway, I'll update again as news arrives


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## abmobil (Nov 22, 2004)

If it works out is he going to get another titan or somthing else?


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## Blank (Aug 21, 2003)

can i get some $$ if my tip saves his case?? lol j/k mang!


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

abmobil: He is getting the Engine replaced with a new one...if he win's Nissan will pay for it and carry a warrenty on the new engine...if he doesn't win he will have to pay for it himself and I don't know if a replacement engine carries a warrenty or not. He's keeping the Titan for a street use truck and his 70 Power Wagon for off road.

BlankgazeX: Thank's for that tip man, he's contacting them to see which liner popped on their truck. 

later...


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## Justintoxicated (Mar 11, 2005)

brendanR said:


> Alright here's the latest...
> I told my brother about the motor trend article and he got a copy and brought it to his lawyer. He was very happy to see it and things are starting to look pretty good. His lawyer specilizes in cases agains dealers and manufacturers and has a perfect record. And even better for my brother is that the lawyer doesn't want cash payment, he just want's my brother to pave him a new driveway (he has his own paving company).
> 
> Agentbook: why do you say it was just stupidity? Follow me on this one.....
> ...



Is there a solution for this problem? Is there a way I can make sure Mine does not come loose. Honestly I'm having trouble visualizing this part can you take a picture?


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## davink (Mar 19, 2005)

Brendan,

I have the same thing happening to the wheel well of my 04 SE CC. It looks just like your Brothers, If you would like to post, or PM an email address, I will be happy to take some dig pics and send them to you.


To all others, 

I agree I am scptical about the amount of mud and water, and I wonder why the air filter would fail and all, But have any of you really looked at where the intake is.

I just went out an looked at mine after reading this thread (especially since my guard is falling off as well) and the intake actually pipes from the airbox directly under the fender.

With my guard as loose as it is, I was actually able to reach my arm up, and reach into the air intake pipe.

Therefore, with the tires going in reverse, I can easily see how water and mud could get thrown up there and be sucked in, what gets me is that the filters shoud stop it from passing any further than the airbox.

Just my two cents, Brandan let me know if you want pics.

-Dave  :cheers:


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

davink: Yes please send me any pics you have to [email protected]

that would be awesome. Thanks for the help. I hope you get yours fixed before anything bad happens.

later.


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## davink (Mar 19, 2005)

brendanR said:


> davink: Yes please send me any pics you have to [email protected]
> 
> that would be awesome. Thanks for the help. I hope you get yours fixed before anything bad happens.
> 
> later.



I sent you out a few different emails with pics, hotmail would not accept the size of one email with all the pictures in it, so you will see a bunch of them.
Good luck with it!!! 


:jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump:


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

Hey man, I still haven't received those pics. Hotmail was down when you sent them, so they might have gotten lost...could ya send them out again?
Thanks


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## davink (Mar 19, 2005)

brendanR said:


> Hey man, I still haven't received those pics. Hotmail was down when you sent them, so they might have gotten lost...could ya send them out again?
> Thanks



Sure, I will send them out again, you will receive several email, each with one pic, cuz hotmail will not accept the size of the email with all the pics in one.
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

well hotmail must not like your pics, because still nothing...maybe just PM me if you still have the pics... 


Anyway, I don't have any news yet, I'm just checking up on the thread to see if anyone else poster anything. I'll keep you up on the latest though..later.


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## titan_213 (May 1, 2005)

*What a Joke*

I can't belive what I have read on this thread, it's like you break your favorite toy and expect some one else to pay for it, sorry about your brothers luck! He needs to step up to the plate and accept responsibility he was stuck and broke the thing. It wouldn't have taken "gallons" of muddy water to hydro lock that motor just a little. Common sense would have said time to call a tow truck, but he made the wrong decision, and now it cost him a motor. I have work for nissan as a tech for 13 years and have never seen a hydro locked motor cover by warranty. unfortunately nissan warranty doesn't not have a stupid clause but your insurance does I suggest he pay his deduct and have the insurance pay.


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## nizel (May 8, 2005)

sorry your brother is having to go through all of this.

2 notes of interest for you:

1) when i bought my truck the driver side inner fender liner was undone. Barely hanging on, i noticed it before i purchased it and they had someone from service come and pop it on for me while it was being cleaned. I wish they had wrote out a ticket or whatnot so i could send you a copy cause im sure no one remembers it but me by now.

2) on the side of your brothers truck it says offroad package or what not. a good friends dad had a z71 a while back and got it flooded in mud one time (was snow on ground and he didnt know area) he had AAA pull him out and got it warrantied cause he argued that it was false advertising to claim its an off road vehicle and for them to say taking it off road is voiding your warranty. he gave them hell though and they took forever to fix his truck while he had to drive a rental neon.

dont know how its gonna turn out for your brother. when i get time ill go out and see if my fender well is still in place. its just little plastic clips that keep it on. 

good luck


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## davink (Mar 19, 2005)

Sorry man - I thought that you had gotten the pics, I since have deleted them, and have had the well fixed, I am sure it will fall off again soon though. When it does I will get more pics.

Acctually, there might be one place that I still could have them. I will check there and get back to you if I have them.
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

Sorry it has been a while since my last post. Anyway the lawyer couldn't get Nissan to replace the engine, but he was able to get his insurance to cover it and the truck is being repaired. They will replace the engine and after that he has changed his mind and is going to sell it. Anyway, that's it. It's getting fixed and that's what matters. Just sucks that nissan won't admit that their fender liners clips are little pieces of shit, that tend to break. 

Well since I don't have a nissan, I won't be back to this forum unless something changes.
bye


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## agentbook (Jun 2, 2002)

Told you that they wouldnt cover it. Live and Learn


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## Misery-Tom (Oct 16, 2005)

this is one of the funniest threads ive seen in awhile lol


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## brendanR (Feb 3, 2005)

Misery-Tom said:


> this is one of the funniest threads ive seen in awhile lol


 Well, since sombody decided to bring this back from the dead, I'll update you guys.

His insurance covered it, the engine was replaced with a new one, and he kept the original engine. the truck was still covered by the remainder of the factory warranty, and he sold it along with the original engine, so if the new owner wanted to rebuild that engine they could basicly have a back-up.

thats it.


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## Outkast (Jan 29, 2006)

*EDIT*
My bad, didn't realize was so old


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