# Sticky  Engine NOISE.....



## ♣300zx♣ (Aug 6, 2004)

Hey my 86 300, when i let of the gas pedel in gear, like 35mph lets say, i hear ticking maybe valves? It goes away as I step on gas.. what would that be? :cheers:


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

I don't think that's valves......


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## RocketRodent (Jun 21, 2004)

Lifters.


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## '85 fairlady (May 1, 2004)

lifters


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## Marc Z31 (Jul 25, 2004)

Lifters, man. Start using 20W50


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## '85 fairlady (May 1, 2004)

i heard that if you run 30w it suposed to clean your egine or something like that???


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

[QUOTE='85 fairlady]i heard that if you run 30w it suposed to clean your egine or something like that???[/QUOTE]


Yeek no , 30W is non-detergent.


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## '85 fairlady (May 1, 2004)

what would one use then?


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

[QUOTE='85 fairlady]what would one use then?[/QUOTE]
Theres a few schools of thought to this answer. One way I have heard of is to add a 1/4 to 1/2 a quart of auto trans fluid run it for a while and drain it. If left too long the trans fluid can affect the seals , so it's best to drain it after a few hours of running.
Another way is to use one of the oil cleaners from the autoparts store , but those in the know don't care for that approach , among other things it puts main and con bearings at risk. The solvent used is 1/10 as hydro-dynamic as even water and also turns oil into a mere shadow of it's former viscosity. I'd use this only in dire situations where oil galley clogging is a probability.
You can use a much lighter weight oil for a short time , such as _0W30_ (Mobil) , or even _5W30_ , but I wouldn't go driving and boosting (those of us _with_ boost  ) on such light weight oil. 
Or , you can use a full synthetic oil , they have great detergent properties , but tend to clean seals out so well that the older ones on cars such as ours can spring leaks.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

I wouldn't use any of the store-bought engine cleaners. As a class, they are better than they used to be but if you use one with too much solvent in it, you might get a bunch of wear and/or a bad seal/leaking problem.

I'd use a 15W-40 gas/diesel motor oil to clean up an older or well-used motor. These dual rated, fleet-type "Heavy Duty Engine Oils" have a very stout detergent/dispersant additive package to keep diesel oil crankcases clean after many thousands of miles. They also have more anti-foamants and more barrier wear additives which make them suitable for high-RPM applications. This weight is also a pretty good one for most high-performance engines.

Months ago, I would have strongly urged you to use Pennzoil Long Life 15W-40 as it had nearly 200PPM of moly in it (more than any other mass-market brand) but very recently, they took the moly out. I'm not sure why.  

Chevron Delo400 or pretty much any of them would work fine, I'm sure.

Oh, and not all straight 30 weight oils are non-detergent and ATFs don't necessarily have the high detergency many people think they do. Just wanted to mention that.

Edit - typos & minor changes.


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## ♣300zx♣ (Aug 6, 2004)

Bror Jace said:


> I wouldn't use any of the store bought cleaners. As a class, they are better than they used to be but if you use one with too much solvent in it, you might get a bunch or wear and/or a seal problem.
> 
> I'd use a 15W-40 gas/diesel motor oil to clean up an older or well-used motor. These fleet-type "Heavy Duty Engine Oils" have a very stout detergent/dispersant additive package to keep diesel oil crankcases clean after many thousands of miles. They also have more anti-foamants and more barrier wear additives which make them suitable for high-RPM applications. The weight is even a pretty good one for most high-performance engines.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the imput-


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

*♣300zx♣*, be sure to tell us how it all works out. :thumbup:


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## ♣300zx♣ (Aug 6, 2004)

*♣300zx♣*



Bror Jace said:


> *♣300zx♣*, be sure to tell us how it all works out. :thumbup:


The ticking went away with heaver oil, hey you dont have to call be by♣300zx♣... just call be Simon...Thats my name


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## TheJackal (Aug 18, 2004)

am i going to have a problem running 10w30??

oh and where is the blasted oil filter, i swear i looked for it for 10 min and could not find it!


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Passenger side of the engine you won't be able to see it heh. It is fairly well hidden but with a few seconds of feeling around you will find it. Also don't do this when the engine is hot; then again I assume you know this.


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## TheJackal (Aug 18, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Passenger side of the engine you won't be able to see it heh. It is fairly well hidden but with a few seconds of feeling around you will find it. Also don't do this when the engine is hot; then again I assume you know this.


oh yea i know... Ill see if i can find it..


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

I think everyone just likes putting the little spades by your name man! Maybe that is what is happening in my NX- I was going to pull the pan this weekend and see if the pickup is clogged


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

_"The ticking went away with heaver oil ..."_

OK *Simon*, what did you end up using? Brand and weight?


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## ♣300zx♣ (Aug 6, 2004)

Bror Jace said:


> _"The ticking went away with heaver oil ..."_
> 
> OK *Simon*, what did you end up using? Brand and weight?


Mobil 1- 15w-50 Full Syntec :cheers:


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

_"Mobil 1- 15w-50 Full Synthetic."_

OK, glad it worked out for ya'. 

I was thinking more along the lines of a gas/diesel oil but Mobil 1 has (historically) a lot of detergency and the 15W-50 weight in particular has a considerable additive package and is not subject to the EPA meddling that is so often found with the lighter weights.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

For the last year or more, I'd been saying that one of the heavier (and cheaper!) oils I liked for high-performance applications was Pennzoil Long Life 15W-40. The dual-rated gas/diesel oils have greater amounts of detergents in them along with more barrier wear protection (zinc phosphate, moly and/or boron) if/when the hydrodynamic oil film fails. The engine should then wear less and remain cleaner (internally) longer.

But just when I thought I had found one of the best heavy-duty/high performance oils going, the fools removed the nearly 200ppm of molybdenum from the formula about 6-8 months ago.  There had been some discussion within the industry that this stuff does more harm than good in certain diesel engines over tens of thousands of miles of use. 

Cummins had a long standing service bulletin against the use of molybdenum in their engines. Of course this doesn't make any sense anymore as the oil Cummins now _specifically_ recommends for their engines is Valvoline’s Blue 15W-40 ... which has moly in it. 

Most of us at BITOG felt the anti-moly sentiment was directed to the suspended solid form molybdenum disulphide (usually found in gear oils, greases and some additives) and not the soluble/liquid moly found for many years in quality motor oils like Red Line and Schaeffer.

And this is contrary to the industry trend as nearly _all_ motor oils have added soluble moly to their formula over the past 3 years … usually 50 to 100ppm.

Anyway, it looks like the good folks at Chevron have picked up the moly ball and are running with it. The latest version of Delo400 now has about 200ppm of the stuff! 

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000240;p=1#000012

Shweet!  Long live Delo400!


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Wow 15-50 is a bit much. The heaviest I would use on the VG30 would be 15-40, and I'm not convinced of the consequences of using that either. Remember, that oil has to be able to flow through the small passages in the turbo center housing at a respectable rate. You NA guys don't have to worry about that, but we do. 15-50, especially cold, I don't think has the right flow characteristics to keep the turbo properly oiled during warm up. I'm not sure how thick this stuff is at temperature either, but thicker is not always better. You could be masking an oil pump going out, in fact you may accelerate it's failure using the thicker oil. Also every seal and gasket in the engine will be stressed more by the higher oil pressure. Heck, I've seen 80 psi at idle from 15-40 when cold. Check what weight oil the car was supposed to use from the factory. For the VG30 I beleive it was either 10-30 or 10-40. Using the recommended weight oil and having a ticking problem should tell you something about your motors internal condition.


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Wow 15-50 is a bit much. The heaviest I would use on the VG30 would be 15-40, and I'm not convinced of the consequences of using that either. Remember, that oil has to be able to flow through the small passages in the turbo center housing at a respectable rate. You NA guys don't have to worry about that, but we do. 15-50, especially cold, I don't think has the right flow characteristics to keep the turbo properly oiled during warm up. I'm not sure how thick this stuff is at temperature either, but thicker is not always better. You could be masking an oil pump going out, in fact you may accelerate it's failure using the thicker oil. Also every seal and gasket in the engine will be stressed more by the higher oil pressure. Heck, I've seen 80 psi at idle from 15-40 when cold. Check what weight oil the car was supposed to use from the factory. For the VG30 I beleive it was either 10-30 or 10-40. Using the recommended weight oil and having a ticking problem should tell you something about your motors internal condition.


I use Amsoil 20W-50 since I hit 100K and at 125K my compression tested at 160 across the board except for #6 which was at 150.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Spongerider said:


> I use Amsoil 20W-50 since I hit 100K and at 125K my compression tested at 160 across the board except for #6 which was at 150.


My chassis is at 162k, I have my doubts about the age of the engine, it's very easy to remove any of the bolts on it. For example the P-side exhaust mani bolts came loose with nowhere near the effort I've seen on other high mileage cars. Compression was 130 across the board, at 5500 feet of altitude. 
I just have my doubts about the effectiveness and useflulness of thicker oil like that in a car that probably won't see much high performance use. Simply to prop up a lifter tick problem, I don't think it's a good idea. Best to fix whatever causes that in the first place, IMO.


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> My chassis is at 162k, I have my doubts about the age of the engine, it's very easy to remove any of the bolts on it. For example the P-side exhaust mani bolts came loose with nowhere near the effort I've seen on other high mileage cars. Compression was 130 across the board, at 5500 feet of altitude.
> I just have my doubts about the effectiveness and useflulness of thicker oil like that in a car that probably won't see much high performance use. Simply to prop up a lifter tick problem, I don't think it's a good idea. Best to fix whatever causes that in the first place, IMO.


I'll add more detail. I bought the car new in 1992 and after it's break-in with regular 10W-30 I used Amsoil 10W-30 til about 100K. My engine has never had a major break down and the turbos are still original. I think it goes to show how well made this Z is when all the maintaince and care is done right.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

*[email protected]*: _" I just have my doubts about the effectiveness and useflulness of thicker oil like that in a car that probably won't see much high performance use. Simply to prop up a lifter tick problem, I don't think it's a good idea. Best to fix whatever causes that in the first place, IMO."_

In general, I agree with you. High performance guys are often a bit too quick to go with a thick oil ... sometimes waaaayy too thick. 

Many serious car people have figured out that thinner oils provide less drag on the motor and free up more horsepower. And if you load up the oil with additives like moly, boron and ZDDP, you can get protection which is just as good ... sometimes even better. :thumbup: 

I've seen too many really good used oil reports from people using 5W-20 and even 0W-20 (and these had all thinned some!!  ) to discount this method of engine protection.

This is the theory behind Mobil 1's racing 0W-30. 

http://www.mobil1.com/products/racing_formula.jsp

But, for guys wanting a thicker oil, the 15W-40 fleet oils make a good choice ... better than the "racing" 20W-50s from Valvoline and others ... and waaayyy better than the straight 40 or 50 weight oils.

I also think the extra detergents in the fleet oils will (safely) help 'de-sludgify' an older motor which has been neglected. Trying one for a couple thousand miles is easier than tearing down a motor just because a lifter is sticking a little. That often happens because of sludge build-up in a critical area. gooey build up can restrict oil flow in certain places.

Then again, sometimes ANY oil change will free-up a sticky lifter because the additive package (including detergents) is that much fresher and better able to clean and lubricate.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Bror Jace said:


> *[email protected]*: _" I just have my doubts about the effectiveness and useflulness of thicker oil like that in a car that probably won't see much high performance use. Simply to prop up a lifter tick problem, I don't think it's a good idea. Best to fix whatever causes that in the first place, IMO."_
> 
> In general, I agree with you. High performance guys are often a bit too quick to go with a thick oil ... sometimes waaaayy too thick.
> 
> Many serious car people have figured out that thinner oils provide less drag on the motor and free up more horsepower. And if you load up the oil with additives like moly, boron and ZDDP, you can get protection which is just as good ... sometimes even better. :thumbup:


My question to you would be, and you being the oil expert, you should have a good guess; at what point does oil become too thick or too thin to adequately protect. I know in part it relies on the clearances in the engine, but some size engines just simply shouldn't use above or below a certain weight oil due to hydrodynamic loads. I mean , can you conceivably cause excess bearing wear simply by using too thin an oil, or is that pretty much impossible. Is it also possible to cause wear by using too thick an oil and placing greater strain on the oil pump and bearings......


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

_My question to you would be, and you being the oil expert, you should have a good guess”_ 

I like the fact that people here hold my knowledge and opinions about oil/lubricants in such high esteem, but compared to some of the folks at BITOG, I’m a lowly noob.  Still, I’ll try to address the questions you’ve asked with what I know.

_ “At what point does oil become too thick or too thin to adequately protect? I know in part it relies on the clearances in the engine, but some size engines just simply shouldn't use above or below a certain weight oil due to hydrodynamic loads.”_

You are on the right track. Truth is, most automotive engines are OK with an oil in the mid 20 weight to mid 40 weight range in most conditions. Any differences in wear will probably not be noticeable … maybe not even with careful UOA monitoring. 

_ “I mean, can you conceivably cause excess bearing wear simply by using too thin an oil, or is that pretty much impossible?” _ 

Nope, that’s always been a concern … and I think I’ve seen some Chevy V8s using mass-market 5W-30 and even 10W-30 which had thinned and showed high lead levels. However, you are not likely to get into trouble using the factory recommended weights unless you push the interval too far. Current mineral 5/10W-30 oils seems to thin out … even the better ones like Pennzoil and Chevron. Castrol is/was worse than those two and Royal Purple _synthetic_ 10W-30 will thin down to a 20 weight in 1,500 miles of typical street use. 

_ “Is it also possible to cause wear by using too thick an oil and placing greater strain on the oil pump and bearings ...”_

Again, we at BITOG (especially *Terry Dyson*) think we’ve seen examples of this. However, you’d have to be talking about using 15W-40 in a new/tight motor … or 20W-50 … or even a straight 40 or 50 weight. 

But even then, some manufacturers like BMW recommend _very_ thick oils (10W-60  ) for some of their higher-performance motors.

So, to answer your question, it all depends.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Bror Jace said:


> Nope, that’s always been a concern … and I think I’ve seen some Chevy V8s using mass-market 5W-30 and even 10W-30 which had thinned and showed high lead levels. However, you are not likely to get into trouble using the factory recommended weights unless you push the interval too far. Current mineral 5/10W-30 oils seems to thin out … even the better ones like Pennzoil and Chevron. Castrol is/was worse than those two and Royal Purple _synthetic_ 10W-30 will thin down to a 20 weight in 1,500 miles of typical street use.


 So what oil brand/type/weight would you recommend for occasional "untypical" street use, and the generally used 3000 mile interval. Since you've stated the above, I now feel somewhat unsafe driving on the normal low weight oils (5w30-10w30-10w40). What consequences might using 15w40 in an engine such as the VG30 have, and what would you recommend, a higher or lower weight oil, for the turbocharged applications, especially for those of us boosting higher than stock.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Actually I was reading what you posted here and that seems to have answered some of my questions. Everyone else would do good to read this too.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

*[email protected]*: _"Actually I was reading what you posted here ...

http://www.nissanforums.com/showthread.php?t=69753

... and that seems to have answered some of my questions. Everyone else would do good to read this too." _

Thanks for searching for, and linking to, that previous thread. :thumbup: 

I don't have any experience with the VG30 but I like reading what I wrote months or years ago and seeing if I'd still say the same things today ... or if the industry has changed and I feel the need to point certain things out. 

I still like those prior recomendations but I'd like to mention two things:

*1)* Even mineral 10W-30s are shearing down rapidly these days. The better 10W-30 formulas used to be good to stay in grade for 5,000 miles or more ... but now they are shearing significantly in 2,000-3,000 miles. 

*2)*The latest formula Chevron Delo400 15W-40 now has an additive package which looks a lot like the Pennzoil Long Life 15W-40 I used to rave about. But you have to look for the absolutely _latest_ bottles from a month or so ago (date printed on the back). The bottle should have some modest "anti-wear" label/flag on the front of the bottle. I've seen one on a gallon container in a local Walmart which looked like the newest stuff.

One thing you can do is use Chevron 10W-40 ... then bump it up a touch with 1 quart of their Delo400 HDEO mixed in with the rest of the sump. This will enhance the already strong anti-wear additive as well as add some oil which is more resistant to shearing than a mass market PCMO.

The other thing is to just use _any_ mineral 10W-40 ... then change it often, knowing that the stuff will shear down quickly. But even sheared down, it's _still_ a 30 weight at temp ... safe to use, for sure. The problems with 10W-40 sludging up engines was fixed well over a decade ago (unstable VII - Viscosity Index Improver) so don't worry about that. 

Or (my personal choice) you could use Schaeffer Oil which resists shearing down like few others. Heck, my thrasher QR25DE with its counter-weighted egg beaters went 5,000 miles using their 5W-30 synthetic blend (~20% PAO) and the stuff STAYED IN GRADE!  Anyway, I'd dare anyone to try their 10W-30 blend and shear it down in less than 5,000 miles ... even with some track miles mixed in.  

The manual for my SpecV (QR25DE) says oils up to 10W-40 are fine, if given warm conditions. So, I'm thinking any oil which is a 30-40 weight at temp will work very well. Heck, I might even use Mobil 1 15W-50 because it is a really _thin_ 50 weight oil.

What gauges do y'all have? Can you install the ones you don't? For any track car, I'd want oil pressure and oil temperature - a good gauge, marked in degrees connected to a real (variable degree) sending unit.

Look for average oil temps and KNOW THIS NUMBER. Also see if there is a temp where the oil pressure begins to drop off. This will help you see where the oil is falling short ... and if you are talking to a guy like Dave Granquist at Red Line, he'll want to know this kind of info when helping you select a proper weight.

And lastly, do UOAs to confirm that the oil you chose is working well and holding up after hard use.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Bror Jace said:


> *[email protected]*: _"Actually I was reading what you posted here ...
> 
> http://www.nissanforums.com/showthread.php?t=69753
> 
> ...


 A few people are aware of Blackstone Labs, but I wonder how many people are aware that _Caterpillar_ also does oil analysis. If you have a Cat dealer locally wherever you are, that may be a good choice. Prices are unknown, however, and probably varies according to locations. Here is the website. Years ago Cat used to be pretty reasonable on prices for analysis, not sure about today. Might be a reasonable alternative to Blackstone, I'm not sure.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

*[email protected]*: _"I wonder how many people are aware that Caterpillar also does oil analysis?"_

Actually, they are a LOT of labs across the US. Probably each major metropolitan area has a few local ones as well. I've been using Blackstone for a long time and they are the 1st one I recommend to peoiple new to this sort of thing. 

I've also used Titan Labs ... but was less impressed with them. 

Schaeffer Oil does their own analysis ... as well as OAI (Oil Analyzers Inc) ... but they are affiliated with Amsoil. Call me paranoid but I'd prefer to use an unbiased, 3rd-party lab. 

However, I _strongly_ recommend everyone pay the extra $5-10 for *Terry Dyson's* interpretation of the lab results. This is _especially_ true if you've never looked at one of these reports before.

Let me know if you can't get a hold of him (contact info in BITOG's sponsor section).


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Bror Jace said:


> *[email protected]*: _"I wonder how many people are aware that Caterpillar also does oil analysis?"_
> 
> Actually, they are a LOT of labs across the US. Probably each major metropolitan area has a few local ones as well. I've been using Blackstone for a long time and they are the 1st one I recommend to peoiple new to this sort of thing.
> 
> ...


Heres the thread on that particular site stating how to order the Dyson analysis prepaid with the kits. Not a bad deal at all if the wear state of your engine is in question.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

I think if you are already paying for TBN, *Terry's* interpretation is well worth another $5. He takes a careful look at each wear metal value ... and then looks for patterns and wear metals in _relation to each other_.

He has also dealt with the labs of various companies/blenders so he will be better able to tell if a value is wear ... or an additive. Silicon, for example, can be an anti-foamant additive, residue from new gaskets or sand particles. The first two are harmless if they show up, the last one isn't.

It was *Terry* who thought the elevated barium in my oil was related to the catalytic (pre) converter dying. 

I'll be sending Blackstone another sample in a week or so and will have *him* look it over. We'll see if the barium's even worse or not.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Bror Jace said:


> I think if you are already paying for TBN, *Terry's* interpretation is well worth another $5. He takes a careful look at each wear metal value ... and then looks for patterns and wear metals in _relation to each other_.
> 
> He has also dealt with the labs of various companies/blenders so he will be better able to tell if a value is wear ... or an additive. Silicon, for example, can be an anti-foamant additive, residue from new gaskets or sand particles. The first two are harmless if they show up, the last one isn't.
> 
> ...


 From what I was reading in that thread, it's another $20 to have him do the analysis, bringing the total to like $55. Right?


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

$55? 

When I use Blackstone and have *Terry* interpret the results, it’s $35 … and that includes TBN testing. Blackstone with TBN testing but no *Terry* is $30. So yeah, I’d say he’s worth the extra $5. 

You can also go directly through *Terry*. I’ve forgotten which lab he uses. I’m pretty sure it’s not Blackstone … but he’s changed labs at least once or twice since I’ve known him.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Bror Jace said:


> $55?
> 
> When I use Blackstone and have *Terry* interpret the results, it’s $35 … and that includes TBN testing. Blackstone with TBN testing but no *Terry* is $30. So yeah, I’d say he’s worth the extra $5.
> 
> You can also go directly through *Terry*. I’ve forgotten which lab he uses. I’m pretty sure it’s not Blackstone … but he’s changed labs at least once or twice since I’ve known him.


 OK yeah nevermind I was miss-reading that.  Thought it was another $20 for Terry to analyze it. Heck, $35 is an even better deal. 

Do they do things differently for motorcycle (4-stroke) oil? Or is the analysis basically the same. I'm just thinking because of there being significantly less oil capacity in a bike, certain contents will show up much higher on the scale, such as bearing metals etc.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

*[email protected]*: _"Do they do things differently for motorcycle (4-stroke) oil? Or is the analysis basically the same. I'm just thinking because of there being significantly less oil capacity in a bike, certain contents will show up much higher on the scale, such as bearing metals, etc ..."_

The process is the same ... but as you've guessed, you need to expect different levels of metal in your cycle sump samples.

The motor and tranny share the oil so you typically see a LOT more iron from the gears ... typically 25-50ppm instead of 5-10ppm. And, these same gears typically shear the oil down really quickly.


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## Xorti7 (Dec 27, 2004)

Just for reference, I was running 5-30 for a while with really bad ticking. I changed to a very generic 10-40 (I was looking in the cracks of the couch and finally found enough change) and it went away after a couple weeks. Now its completely gone. :cheers:


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Xorti7 said:


> Just for reference, I was running 5-30 for a while with really bad ticking. I changed to a very generic 10-40 (I was looking in the cracks of the couch and finally found enough change) and it went away after a couple weeks. Now its completely gone. :cheers:


The ticking was probably your hydraulic lifters. Pretty odd, considering a lower weight oil flows better and generally _stops_ lifter noise in other cars. I think it had a lot more to do with your oil pressure, then, in this case. I wouldn't consider running anything less than 10W40 in the VG30 anyway. That's what I ran in mine in the winter, and 15W40 in the summer. Mine was turbo, also.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

*Xorti7*, I am not surprised. All else being equal, a thicker oil will be quieter in an engine than a thin one.

When you see (hear) a difference between two brands of oils, however, it's usually due to the additive packages.

Oh, and be aware that after 1,500-2,000 miles, most 10W-40s shear down to a 10W-30 ... but they won't go any lower than that under normal circumstances.

Actually, it's a pretty decent oil weight for use in high-performance engines ... especially the better brands (Pennzoil, Chevron & Havoline) as well as the "High-Mileage" oils.


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