# what else?



## AirForce200 (Aug 3, 2004)

I've posted several times about getting the suspension redone. Finally decided to go with the AGX/tein setup. finally got the springs, soon to buy the AGXs. Beyond that, what am I going to need? besides tools...

(don't harass the newb, but what the crap do I need the koni bumpstops, or the motivational mounts, or anything like that for? Are they necessary?)


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

Please read this thread and convince yourself that you should do everything you can to increase the travel of the suspension, and that with your setup you will be hitting the bump stops regularly. I would highly recommend both the Motivational rear mounts (increases travel) and Koni bump stops (progressive compression which helps keep control when you hit the bump stop). 

If you decide not to do this your car will be OK for most driving, but will become unpredictable when you need it most, during an emergency maneuver. 

Lew


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## AirForce200 (Aug 3, 2004)

Okay, so I'm still confused. have I just wasted a bunch of money on springs I don't even want?

What I really need is for someone to simply tell me the following:

what springs, struts, and any other equipment needed to mount them if this is the best setup.

OR

what coilovers and any other equipment needed as well if THIS is the best setup.

money isn't the issue, though the cheaper the better. so what do I need to make this pos have an incredible ride with no side effects?

Stupid question time, what the crap is a bumpstop? I thought I asked this already....


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

The best setups for the B14 are systems with shortened struts and much higher spring rates than stock. I have read nothing but praise for the Tien coilovers, either the Basics (cheaper but less adjustable) or SS (more expensive but more adjustable).

For a setup with standard springs, Motivational makes shortened struts and rear shock mounts that work well with custom Hyperco springs.

The spring rates that work best are:
Front in the 300#/in. range
Rear in the 250#/in. range
[roughly double the rate of stock springs]

Bump stops are rubber devices that fit over the shock absorber shaft and keep it from bottoming out and striking the foot valve. This protects the shock from damage. The stock bump stops are too long if you lower your car, and a section should be cut out to allow more travel. They are also made of very hard rubber, so if the suspension fully compresses and contacts the bump stop, the effective spring rate skyrockets, and that wheel rebounds violently. This can lead to loss of control. Standard spring setups benefit from bump stops that are made from softer rubber than stock, like the Konis which are made of closed cell foam, so that as the shock approaches full compression the transition is more gradual. The Tien setup has bump stops built-in.

Lew


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## AirForce200 (Aug 3, 2004)

so basics are the way to go for the money?

and I've just wasted money on tein springs. great.

once I get the basics, I don't need bumpstops, or motivational rear mounts or anything like that, correct? I would only need to get stabilizing equipment like sway bars or lower tie bars and upper stut bars, etc.?


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

AirForce200 said:


> so basics are the way to go for the money?
> 
> and I've just wasted money on tein springs. great.
> 
> once I get the basics, I don't need bumpstops, or motivational rear mounts or anything like that, correct? I would only need to get stabilizing equipment like sway bars or lower tie bars and upper stut bars, etc.?


The Tien basic coilover is all you need unless you plan to race autocross or on a track.

Lew


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## Nismo1997 (Dec 26, 2003)

I have Tein S-Tech springs with AGX struts and koni bump stops and i dont bottem out :thumbup:


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

Nismo1997 said:


> I have Tein S-Tech springs with AGX struts and koni bump stops and i dont bottem out :thumbup:


How do you know you don't bottom them out? The koni bumpstops soften the blow so it's hard to tell until you lose control in an emergency. The Tien S-tech spring rate is too low for the drop, and you WILL hit the bump stops in normal driving. Ordinarily it dosn't matter, but I wouldn't want to take the chance.

I had Eibach Prokits on my car which have about the same spring rates and drop as the S-techs. I hit the bump stops at the track event at the 2000 SERCA Convention going around a curve on street tires. The car pogoed and drifted out until I almost ran out of road. If I were trying to avoid an accident on a curve in normal driving, I firmly believe I'd be off the road.

Is the extra money worth the Tien Basic coilovers? I think so.

Lew


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## Nismo1997 (Dec 26, 2003)

if you say so


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

Nismo1997 said:


> if you say so


It's not just me, it is everyone who has tried lowering springs on the track. Mike Kojima has written an article about the Sentra/200SX suspension. Check it out:

http://www.sentra.net/tech/garage/suspension.php

Lew


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## Greg200SE-R (Feb 5, 2003)

If money isn't a problem, I would highly recommend front camber plates as well. Tein makes beautiful, very reasonable camber plates (and rear mounts as well) that will give you some additional travel, but they may only work with Tein coilovers. they're about $140 for a pair. 

Ground Control reportedly makes the most adjustable camber plates ($300+?), and the Motivational rear mounts, as mentioned above, are almost a necessity if youre not going with shortened struts.

Camber plates are the strongest, most reliable way to keep your camber correct after dropping your car. Those damn wedges that are stuffed between the strut and hub will go out of adjustment and start killing your tires, believe me.


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## jmann98 (Aug 20, 2004)

For another $150 or so you could pick up Tein's Basic damper set. These have been well reviewed (I like mine), they don't bottom out, handle well, and don't require extra purchases to increase suspension travel. I got mine for $790 shipped at some ebay store last month.


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## AirForce200 (Aug 3, 2004)

/________________ :dumbass: 
\

there's too much confustion on the subject. I'm finding everyone seems to have different opinions, and yet most of them are the same, so to hell with it. I'm just gonna save a little more and get the SS's. Thanks for all the advice, i'm sure it won't be the last of my questions on the matter.

btw: anyone needing some Tein S. Tech springs? Cheap


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## Nismo1997 (Dec 26, 2003)

lshadoff said:


> It's not just me, it is everyone who has tried lowering springs on the track. Mike Kojima has written an article about the Sentra/200SX suspension. Check it out:
> 
> http://www.sentra.net/tech/garage/suspension.php
> 
> Lew


im not saying your wrong...overall im very happy with the set up


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## Greg200SE-R (Feb 5, 2003)

AirForce200 said:


> /________________ :dumbass:
> \
> 
> there's too much confustion on the subject. I'm finding everyone seems to have different opinions, and yet most of them are the same, so to hell with it. I'm just gonna save a little more and get the SS's. Thanks for all the advice, i'm sure it won't be the last of my questions on the matter.
> ...


You are right, there are a lot of opinions on B14 suspension because its something that most people would rather not spend a lot of money on. But the B14 has such bad design that the only thing to fix the fundamental problems is to get a good set of coilovers with shortened strut bodies. Teins just happen to be the cheapest coilovers that offer this - but let me say that you won't be disappointed in them! The SS coilovers are the last suspension pieces you'll need. Go with the Tein pillowball mounts too, if you can afford them. tho your ride will get a bit more harsh using them.


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## B14GEE (Jul 10, 2003)

I love my agx/s tech combo......simple as that


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## jmann98 (Aug 20, 2004)

Greg200SE-R said:


> You are right, there are a lot of opinions on B14 suspension because its something that most people would rather not spend a lot of money on.


I guess that's true for a lot of people, but I think when you compare engine mods vs. suspension mods (granted, its apples and oranges), you get more bang for your buck with the suspension mods. Coilovers change your supsension and handling in a fundamental way for $800. Besides nitrous, you have to spend $1100 on i/h/e, and I don't know if I would call the difference to your power fundamental. Making more horespower is just damn EXPENSIVE. 

I think a good approach to building a car is to buy a decently powered car, and then upgrade the suspension. If I had to do it again, I would be looking at mid-late '90s Maximas that needs new shocks. VW turbos are nice, but those cars aren't made well. But those Maximas are only a few hundred pounds heavier than my '97 SE-R, and have 33% more displacement, 50 more hp, and respond well to mods. Then install coilovers and serious grip - parts that need replacing anyway eventually. Reliable car, too.


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## AirForce200 (Aug 3, 2004)

That helps. Grest info man, but I don't own a maxima. Although obviously you know a little something about your cars and obviously more than myself, I think I'm leaning more towards the Tein/AGX setup. I've been back and forth with this, and the bottom line for me is money is tight and this will ride just as good, if not better than stock. This is a daily driver, not a track star, even though I want to be able to smoke some civics when they get cocky pullin up beside me.

I agree with you totally though. It seems the car is quick enough as is for me but the suspension really needs upgrading, not to mention those hard-ass seats. So, after the Teins, AGX's, Konis, Motivational mounts, strut bars, and maybe a tie bar and anti-sway bar, I'll be set! Not to mention the Stromung coming if this GB goes as planned.

Thanks for the info, you've all helped a lot! Somehow I feel confident enough that I could do this myself.....um, no.


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