# I bought an h20 injection system finally!



## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

I dont have it yet- itll be here on thursday, but I just wanted to share in my excitment with all of you! Its made by turbonetics and its way cheaper then the "aquamist" system. I talked to a guy there yesterday before I ordered it from my distributor and he told me that "ballpark" with alcohol it will cool the intake charge temp by 100-140 degrees. They stopped making them last week also b/c they werent making any money on them and they were selling them too cheap..........once I heard that I booted my computer at work back up to send the order through----- dude Im so excited!!! I will let you guys know how it goes friday morning after I blow my car up running 15 psi!!

Hey, why hasnt anyone posted in the last couple of days?
Everyone is hanging out in the 350z forum!


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> I dont have it yet- itll be here on thursday, but I just wanted to share in my excitment with all of you! Its made by turbonetics and its way cheaper then the "aquamist" system. I talked to a guy there yesterday before I ordered it from my distributor and he told me that "ballpark" with alcohol it will cool the intake charge temp by 100-140 degrees. They stopped making them last week also b/c they werent making any money on them and they were selling them too cheap..........once I heard that I booted my computer at work back up to send the order through----- dude Im so excited!!! I will let you guys know how it goes friday morning after I blow my car up running 15 psi!!
> 
> Hey, why hasnt anyone posted in the last couple of days?
> Everyone is hanging out in the 350z forum!


 PM me with price and stuff.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> I dont have it yet- itll be here on thursday, but I just wanted to share in my excitment with all of you! Its made by turbonetics and its way cheaper then the "aquamist" system. I talked to a guy there yesterday before I ordered it from my distributor and he told me that "ballpark" with alcohol it will cool the intake charge temp by 100-140 degrees. They stopped making them last week also b/c they werent making any money on them and they were selling them too cheap..........once I heard that I booted my computer at work back up to send the order through----- dude Im so excited!!! I will let you guys know how it goes friday morning after I blow my car up running 15 psi!!
> 
> Hey, why hasnt anyone posted in the last couple of days?
> Everyone is hanging out in the 350z forum!


Yeah, that system is a Spearco low pressure system that only has about 20 psi of pressure. It is based off of a windshield washer pump. The problem with this is that the water volume will fall rapidly with boost pressure because the water pressure is so close to what your boost pressure is. Thats why Aquamist systems have 120 psi pumps. This system is also not tuneable. The abilty to tune the system is very important, in fact critcal for it to work well. If you spray water pre-compressor it might work except water works better post compressor and waters impact will eventualy damage the compressor wheel. One posiblily to make it work is to boost reverence the water tank but you would need a sturdy water tank to do so. That still doesnt address the tuneabilty issues.

The Spearco/Turbonetics system is junk. Well I do think its suitable as an IC spray system, it works well in this reguard.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> Yeah, that system is a Spearco low pressure system that only has about 20 psi of pressure. It is based off of a windshield washer pump. The problem with this is that the water volume will fall rapidly with boost pressure because the water pressure is so close to what your boost pressure is. Thats why Aquamist systems have 120 psi pumps. This system is also not tuneable. The abilty to tune the system is very important, in fact critcal for it to work well. If you spray water pre-compressor it might work except water works better post compressor and waters impact will eventualy damage the compressor wheel. One posiblily to make it work is to boost reverence the water tank but you would need a sturdy water tank to do so. That still doesnt address the tuneabilty issues.
> 
> The Spearco/Turbonetics system is junk. Well I do think its suitable as an IC spray system, it works well in this reguard.


 On a low boost low tech car, that'll probably not be an issue though. Like for me with my 15 psi right now, that would be fine, perfect in fact. And it would likely be replaced over the next few years as the car is upgraded anyway. Sure, I could buy the top of the line system right off the bat, but it doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money right now on this car. That's just my opinion......


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Thanks for ripping that one up mike-lol

Im still going to use it- it has got to be better then using nothing at all. For 200 bucks you cant beat it! So what youre saying is that its basically the same thing that we were talking about doing with the washer tank like 5 months ago or so.............

balliztik had told me that if I did it pre turbo that it would wear down the compressor wheel.
The guy at turbonetics told me that the compressor was a higher psi with the kit that I ordered (980) and that the tank is pressurized. Its not plastic or anything, its aluminum and it holds like four gallons.

I will see how it works and let you guys know!!!

Hey Mike, can you please check out my post about the automatic trans controller?

Hey Eric, my opinion is the same-- I got the car for free-lol


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Can someone explain how it works? Which line does the water flow through post or pre turbo?


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> Can someone explain how it works? Which line does the water flow through post or pre turbo?


It has it's own lines.......... You can put them anywhere you want.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

So it doesn't spray in the intake it just has cooling tubes running around it or through it or on the outside or something? I'm still a little lost here.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> So it doesn't spray in the intake it just has cooling tubes running around it or through it or on the outside or something? I'm still a little lost here.


It sprays in the intake. Either pre or post turbo is up to you, though I recommend post turbo. I've personally seen the effects of pre-turbo WI , and after only 6 months of useage the T3 I saw had almost nothing left of the compressor wheel.......


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

the water cut the wheel? I would've though with the high temps it would just turn into steam almost instantly


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> the water cut the wheel? I would've though with the high temps it would just turn into steam almost instantly


 Not pre turbo, intake temps are almost ambient. You won't get much evaporation there. Turbo's "idle" at around 10,000 rpm, and can run well over 150,000 rpm at high boost, depending on the turbo. T3s run about 120,000, I beleive. That's pretty much supersonic. Constant boost and consequently high water concentration coming in and crashing into the turbine blades at those speeds will wear it down quite quickly. At those speeds the water is pretty much solid, kinda like if you jumped off a 100 foot bridge and landed flat on the water....it's "sand blasting" the compressor blades.
You might think this would also happen in a high humidity environment, but it doesn't. The water molecules are much further apart and less concentrated, and most of them are absorbed by the air filter anyway.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Hmmm I wonder how fast it spins at 10 PSI. I don't have a compressor map


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> Hmmm I wonder how fast it spins at 10 PSI. I don't have a compressor map


 80,000 or so, I think.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

That isn't too bad. I wonder what yours spins at at 15. Not to mention the temperature of that thing. The H20 kit sounds cool (pun not intended) but would it be better than an intercooler? Or maybe dualed up.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> That isn't too bad. I wonder what yours spins at at 15. Not to mention the temperature of that thing. The H20 kit sounds cool (pun not intended) but would it be better than an intercooler? Or maybe dualed up.


 Cheap insurance, I'd call it. The only problem is, most WI systems don't "ramp up" , meaning they don't spray more water as you crank up the boost. You'll get the most water at low rpm WOT, if you use a system with a WOT switch. Some systems are boost sensitive, some are tunable. Cheap systems are ok for initial modding but I'd upgrade later on. Mike Kojima mentioned this earlier, I think.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

I'll check it out. You would think they would come with a pressure regulator wouldn't they?


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> I'll check it out. You would think they would come with a pressure regulator wouldn't they?


A pressure regulator wouldn't matter. The cheaper systems have no way to tune water flow for boost and rpm levels.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Gotcha so you need some sort of controller that differs the flow with the changing of RPM. Like none at 0 boost and then start kicking in at 1 PSI on up. Or that's how I would see it best working.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> Gotcha so you need some sort of controller that differs the flow with the changing of RPM. Like none at 0 boost and then start kicking in at 1 PSI on up. Or that's how I would see it best working.


Yeah, some sort of reverse fuel pressure regulator, it opens up as you apply pressure, so it's fully closed at zero boost, and slowly opens up til it's wide open at say 10 psi. Just like a wastgate. But adjustable, of course.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

I just got the system today- the pressure switch is adjustable and it has different jets for the amount of flow- I will let you guys know how it works out.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> I just got the system today- the pressure switch is adjustable and it has different jets for the amount of flow- I will let you guys know how it works out.


Yeah, but it's not set up to adjust as the turbo spools up, and that's the only right way to do it. It starts spraying at a set boost level ,and sprays the same amount of water til you let off the pedal. I just see so many problems with a system like that, including the danger of hydrolock at low rpm boost.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

is it spraying enough to hydrolock a motor?
I was going to set it to spray around 5 psi or so.
Does the aquamist progressively add pressure and fluid in regards to the amount of boost?


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> is it spraying enough to hydrolock a motor?
> I was going to set it to spray around 5 psi or so.
> Does the aquamist progressively add pressure and fluid in regards to the amount of boost?



Does it have some sort of controller that came with it to detect boost? I am guessing so since you are going to set it to spray at 5 PSI.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Yeah it has an adjustable pressure sensor, I havent actually looked at it yet- I havent opened the box- Im not going to be able to install it till tomorrow anyways, tonight I have to help our painter finish a body kit on a gayass 94 celica ricer.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Well you need to look at the sensor and see if it increases pressure progessively.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> Well you need to look at the sensor and see if it increases pressure progessively.


Unlikely, those "sensors" can only be set to spray water after a certain boost pressure is reached, not to adjust the flow rate. Tuneable systems actually have an electronic controller and multiple water injection ports, it's kinda like a stand alone EFI unit.....


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Unlikely, those "sensors" can only be set to spray water after a certain boost pressure is reached, not to adjust the flow rate. Tuneable systems actually have an electronic controller and multiple water injection ports, it's kinda like a stand alone EFI unit.....



Well then it seems he will only be able to spray at 5 PSI and above then. With no on the fly control of pressure.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> Well then it seems he will only be able to spray at 5 PSI and above then. With no on the fly control of pressure.


Exactly. That's why they tend to be kinda dangerous if used improperly.Set the pressure it sprays at too low and it could conceivably cause hydrolock. I'd say setting it at above stock boost pressure (above 8 psi) is good enough. I don't beleive WI would have any positive effects below 8 psi, above which point an intercooler is theoretically a good idea.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

no Jake, this thing is like 200 bucks man-- its so basic- its not going to have anything like that

I was kinda thinking a little higher also man- like 7 or so....


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Oh I thought you posted 5 PSI earlier. But alright I understand all of it now.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> no Jake, this thing is like 200 bucks man-- its so basic- its not going to have anything like that
> 
> I was kinda thinking a little higher also man- like 7 or so....


Intercoolers are really only necessary at 8 psi or so and above, I wouldn't set the sprayer anywhere below that, you won't get any decent benefits. I'd say right about 9 psi would be perfect.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

9 it is then.....


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

SKD_Tech----- Oh I thought you posted 5 PSI earlier. But alright I understand all of it now. 



I was thinking of it, but then I figured higher would be better and balliztik kinda made a good point with the intercooler thingy.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Alright, 9 PSI does sound good. How much boost are you going to run? 12 PSI?


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

thats what Im running now- I think I will just stay there.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> On a low boost low tech car, that'll probably not be an issue though. Like for me with my 15 psi right now, that would be fine, perfect in fact. And it would likely be replaced over the next few years as the car is upgraded anyway. Sure, I could buy the top of the line system right off the bat, but it doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money right now on this car. That's just my opinion......


The water would be dribbling from the nozzle at 5psi if you tried to run 15 psi. Your system would be useless. See what I mean? You get the $200 buck kit, then build a boost referenced water tank with a 10 psi check valve and then you could have bought a Aquamist system.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> Thanks for ripping that one up mike-lol
> 
> Im still going to use it- it has got to be better then using nothing at all. For 200 bucks you cant beat it! So what youre saying is that its basically the same thing that we were talking about doing with the washer tank like 5 months ago or so.............
> 
> ...


If its a pressurized tank, then it will work.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> The water would be dribbling from the nozzle at 5psi if you tried to run 15 psi. Your system would be useless. See what I mean? You get the $200 buck kit, then build a boost referenced water tank with a 10 psi check valve and then you could have bought a Aquamist system.


 Yeah, you're right.  I'd rather have one of the newer tuneable systems though: electronic control, multiple outlet ports, self adjusting flow characteristics... Probably cost over $1000 , though. But it would be the best for a high performance car.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

It is a pressurized tank...........That is one thing I was thinking about was having a one way check valve on it. I read that if its unlevel then the line hooked to the plenum will suck water right into the motor- a check valve would eliminate that- but what about all that pressure build up?

if you keep pressing 10 psi into something it is going to remain at 10 psi right? or is this thing an aluminum bomb waiting to go off under the hood if I put a one way valve on it?


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> It is a pressurized tank...........That is one thing I was thinking about was having a one way check valve on it. I read that if its unlevel then the line hooked to the plenum will suck water right into the motor- a check valve would eliminate that- but what about all that pressure build up?
> 
> if you keep pressing 10 psi into something it is going to remain at 10 psi right? or is this thing an aluminum bomb waiting to go off under the hood if I put a one way valve on it?


I'd put a 10 psi check valve on the pressure in and the water out, that way it won't pump water after yo let off the gas and the pressurised water is always ready to go.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Call me retarded, but youll have to lead me by the hand on this one. If I use a check valve on the line to the pump, I dont understand how that is going to keep the water in the line pressurized on the motor side- I understand about the vacuum side though.

You know more about that stuff then I do. Is it a check valve that doesnt release till 10 psi that I should use on that side?


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