# Tire balancing



## newxtrailforme (Feb 12, 2005)

Does anybody else have a problem with tire balancing? I change to winter tires in every year and it's always hell to get the tires balanced. I think my steering wheel doesn't shake for about 1 month of every year.


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## pgames38 (May 12, 2005)

newxtrailforme said:


> Does anybody else have a problem with tire balancing? I change to winter tires in every year and it's always hell to get the tires balanced. I think my steering wheel doesn't shake for about 1 month of every year.


Oh yes... noticed that the steering wheel vibrated after they installed the new winter tires (Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice, at Coast Tire in New Brunswick). This is caused by a balancing problem with the front wheels, so I went back two days later. They balanced them again, but still, the vehicle isn't right! The steering wheel AND driver's seat vibrate even worse now, indicating a balancing problem on both the front and rear wheels. I've loaded up the original tires in the truck, and I'm going back tomorrow morning. I'm going to tell them to get it right, and if they can't, three strikes, you're out! I'm going to demand they remove the tires and refund my money. I'll go elsewhere, and fire off a letter to Coast Tire head office. This is ridiculous. This kind of vibration shouldn't be present, even for winter tires. 

I wonder if this problem exists because of the alloy rims? Would there still be a problem with steel ones?? Frustrated!! 

pgames38


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## newxtrailforme (Feb 12, 2005)

I know the feeling of being frustrated over such a simple problem. I've had this problem every time I've switched tires for the past year and a half. 

Today I switched back to winter tires again (toyo observer G02), and my whole vehicle shakes after 70km/h. 2 hours later I brought the x-trail back, and they rebalanced the tires, but it still shakes!

A year ago, the nissan dealer looked at everything on the car and said that it's the tire balancing. It took them 3 weeks to finally get the balancing right so that the steering wheel wouldn't shake. This is insane! 

Anyway, I was talking with a friend today and he's a mechanic with Toyota. He was saying that they've had similar problems with the tires on the Tocoma's where they can't get the wheels properly balanced. Now they have this $15'000 balancer and a whole procedure for those tires, so on Monday I'm probably going to bring my car to them and if it works, I'll give the old place the bill for it. 

Once I get this tires balanced right, I'm going to buy a new set of rims for my summer tires so that I don't have to deal this anymore. I've never had a vehicle where it was this difficult to balance a tire.






pgames38 said:


> Oh yes... noticed that the steering wheel vibrated after they installed the new winter tires (Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice, at Coast Tire in New Brunswick). This is caused by a balancing problem with the front wheels, so I went back two days later. They balanced them again, but still, the vehicle isn't right! The steering wheel AND driver's seat vibrate even worse now, indicating a balancing problem on both the front and rear wheels. I've loaded up the original tires in the truck, and I'm going back tomorrow morning. I'm going to tell them to get it right, and if they can't, three strikes, you're out! I'm going to demand they remove the tires and refund my money. I'll go elsewhere, and fire off a letter to Coast Tire head office. This is ridiculous. This kind of vibration shouldn't be present, even for winter tires.
> 
> I wonder if this problem exists because of the alloy rims? Would there still be a problem with steel ones?? Frustrated!!
> 
> pgames38


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## pgames38 (May 12, 2005)

newxtrailforme said:


> I know the feeling of being frustrated over such a simple problem. I've had this problem every time I've switched tires for the past year and a half.
> 
> Today I switched back to winter tires again (toyo observer G02), and my whole vehicle shakes after 70km/h. 2 hours later I brought the x-trail back, and they rebalanced the tires, but it still shakes!
> 
> ...


Does anyone know if the rims on the X-Trail are lug or hub centric? It seems to make a difference in the balancing. If they're lug centric, the mechanic must use an lug adapter when fitting the tire on the balancer. This may be part of the $15,000 new procedure required to balance the Toyota. For a photo of the adapter, here's an article I ran across:

http://forums.vmag.com/suv4run0499/messages/3409.html

If the Coast Tire dealership can't finx the problem this morning, I'm going to check out a few more tire places to see what they can do, then bring the bill to Coast Tire. If all else fails, I'll bring the Goodyears back. 

pgames38


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## pgames38 (May 12, 2005)

pgames38 said:


> *snip*
> 
> If the Coast Tire dealership can't finx the problem this morning, I'm going to check out a few more tire places to see what they can do, then bring the bill to Coast Tire. If all else fails, I'll bring the Goodyears back.
> 
> pgames38


I've decided to let the COast Tire dealership have one more go at the XT. I'll be bringing it on Monday and they'll have one of their senior guys do the job. If it's still a problem, they'll replace all the tires. I'll keep you posted.


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## ERBell (Aug 7, 2005)

pgames38 said:


> Does anyone know if the rims on the X-Trail are lug or hub centric? It seems to make a difference in the balancing. If they're lug centric, the mechanic must use an lug adapter when fitting the tire on the balancer. This may be part of the $15,000 new procedure required to balance the Toyota. For a photo of the adapter, here's an article I ran across:
> 
> http://forums.vmag.com/suv4run0499/messages/3409.html
> 
> ...


That adapter is nothing new. When I was 18 I worked at Big O Tires and later for Kal Tire and we used those type of adapters for wheel where the center hole was too big for the centering cones or on expensive wheels where there is no center cap and you don't want anything touching the wheel face.


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## newxtrailforme (Feb 12, 2005)

Well I've concluded that these tires need to be balanced on both sides of the rim. I took the car to this Goodyear dealer today and the mechanic gave me this story about how the tires don't need balancing weights on both sides of the tire. I told him that they did, but he didn't believe me and now the car still shakes. At least they didn't charge me anything. 

On top of all this, I noticed that my alloy rims are all scratched to hell. The original tire shop (total tire) did a sloppy job with their tire iron and I have deep scratched in all 4 of my rims. These factory alloy rims are not cheap, so now I've very upset and on monday I'm going back there and demanding that they refund my money AND buy a new set of OEM rims.

Oh what fun!





pgames38 said:


> I've decided to let the COast Tire dealership have one more go at the XT. I'll be bringing it on Monday and they'll have one of their senior guys do the job. If it's still a problem, they'll replace all the tires. I'll keep you posted.


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## ejm (Nov 14, 2004)

*Tire Balancing*

I checked the ESM for the X-Trail and it says mount the wheel on the balancer "using center hole as a guide". Therefore the wheel is hub-centric.
It also says to balance using both inner and outer weights. 
However I think the problem might be that the tire shop is installing the outer indicated weight amount. 
The balancing machine is designed for steel wheels where the weights are driven onto the outside circumference of the wheel. But on our alloy wheels the outer weight is about 2 inches closer to the the center of the wheel than what the outside circumference is. Because of this, more weight has to be added to give the proper results. The ESM says multiply indicated outer weight X 5/3 to get required weight. (15g X 5/3=25g). Glue this amount onto surface against groove at outer edge of surface. Then rebalance wheel and install inner weight using a "drive on" weight of indicated amount and mount on circumference in usual manner.
Max. final out of balance is 10g (0.35 oz.).
Maybe this will solve the problem.


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## newxtrailforme (Feb 12, 2005)

Good Info. Thanks! I'll let you know what comes of this, and if the tire shop is going to replace my alloy rims that are now all marked up.





ejm said:


> I checked the ESM for the X-Trail and it says mount the wheel on the balancer "using center hole as a guide". Therefore the wheel is hub-centric.
> It also says to balance using both inner and outer weights.
> However I think the problem might be that the tire shop is installing the outer indicated weight amount.
> The balancing machine is designed for steel wheels where the weights are driven onto the outside circumference of the wheel. But on our alloy wheels the outer weight is about 2 inches closer to the the center of the wheel than what the outside circumference is. Because of this, more weight has to be added to give the proper results. The ESM says multiply indicated outer weight X 5/3 to get required weight. (15g X 5/3=25g). Glue this amount onto surface against groove at outer edge of surface. Then rebalance wheel and install inner weight using a "drive on" weight of indicated amount and mount on circumference in usual manner.
> ...


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

ejm said:


> I checked the ESM for the X-Trail and it says mount the wheel on the balancer "using center hole as a guide". Therefore the wheel is hub-centric.
> It also says to balance using both inner and outer weights.
> However I think the problem might be that the tire shop is installing the outer indicated weight amount.
> The balancing machine is designed for steel wheels where the weights are driven onto the outside circumference of the wheel. But on our alloy wheels the outer weight is about 2 inches closer to the the center of the wheel than what the outside circumference is. Because of this, more weight has to be added to give the proper results. The ESM says multiply indicated outer weight X 5/3 to get required weight. (15g X 5/3=25g). Glue this amount onto surface against groove at outer edge of surface. Then rebalance wheel and install inner weight using a "drive on" weight of indicated amount and mount on circumference in usual manner.
> ...


This is the exact procedure I had done when I mounted my 17 inch wheels on the X. I suggested it after I had taken the truck for a short drive and noticed the steering wheel shaking over 110km/h.


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## pgames38 (May 12, 2005)

Terranismo said:


> This is the exact procedure I had done when I mounted my 17 inch wheels on the X. I suggested it after I had taken the truck for a short drive and noticed the steering wheel shaking over 110km/h.


They finally got it right. The Coast Tire guy said the mechanic worked on it for hours, and had to do 3-4 road tests, but he finally balanced the wheels. It rides very smoothly, and I can't wait for a good snowstorm to test out the winter tires and AWD.


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Glad to hear :thumbup:


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## newxtrailforme (Feb 12, 2005)

I took this procedure down to total tire and mechanic took about an hour to balance the tires, and now the balancing is finally perfect.

Thanks.



ejm said:


> I checked the ESM for the X-Trail and it says mount the wheel on the balancer "using center hole as a guide". Therefore the wheel is hub-centric.
> It also says to balance using both inner and outer weights.
> However I think the problem might be that the tire shop is installing the outer indicated weight amount.
> The balancing machine is designed for steel wheels where the weights are driven onto the outside circumference of the wheel. But on our alloy wheels the outer weight is about 2 inches closer to the the center of the wheel than what the outside circumference is. Because of this, more weight has to be added to give the proper results. The ESM says multiply indicated outer weight X 5/3 to get required weight. (15g X 5/3=25g). Glue this amount onto surface against groove at outer edge of surface. Then rebalance wheel and install inner weight using a "drive on" weight of indicated amount and mount on circumference in usual manner.
> ...


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## newxtrailforme (Feb 12, 2005)

We just had our first snow storm on thursday and the x-trail is offically a tank with the winter tires and AWD. It's amazing how the tires grip the icy roads.

I'm still waiting to hear what total tire is going to do about my damaged rims. They're $700 each at the nissan dealer and I think this shop is trying to find a set on ebay, either that or searching the classifieds in south america because they're sure taking their sweet time.




pgames38 said:


> They finally got it right. The Coast Tire guy said the mechanic worked on it for hours, and had to do 3-4 road tests, but he finally balanced the wheels. It rides very smoothly, and I can't wait for a good snowstorm to test out the winter tires and AWD.


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## distefv (Jul 26, 2005)

I know this is an old thread, but I running into the same issues.
I had winter tires mounted on generic black winter steel rims from Can Tire.
I put the wheels on myself last year for the first time, and never noticed any vibrations. 
This year, the vibrations are definitely noticeable.
I currently do not have wheel centering rings installed and I think this is the cause of the problem. 
Does anyone with generic steel rims have these rings ? 
Can Tire doesn't list any for the Xtrail (surprise..surprise) so I am probably going to try ones recommended for the Altima as they are built on the same drivetrain.

Thanks,
Vince


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## mgfiest (Sep 13, 2009)

sometime the way you store the winter tires may cause the vibration. the sometime go flat on one side, depending the how they were stored. any tire shop should be able to tell you if the tires are in bad shape


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## distefv (Jul 26, 2005)

I stored them on a tire rack. Each wheel was supported independantly and not touching the others.


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## mgfiest (Sep 13, 2009)

i would get them rebalanced... see if that would go away.... balancing does not last forever.


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## tbk (Dec 29, 2008)

The other possibility, and this happened to me on my old car, if you rotated your tires, you may find that the tire that was on the rear last year, is out of balance. When you put it on the front, it is now more noticable. If you are willing to take the time, you can isolate the bad tire and only rebalance that one. You can find hubcentric rings at most performance tire stores.


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## warrenw (Sep 16, 2009)

I had the out of balance issue after new front tires installed.

2006 5 spoke OEM rims.

the answer:

sticky wheel weights on the outer, clip on weights on the inner rim.

I have a buddy with a tire balancer in his garage. 15 min with him and his balancer fixed it.

Turned out the only weights installed were inner clip on type. My guess is the tire shop didn't have the stick on kind of weights.


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## rye1988 (Sep 5, 2008)

i don't know sounds like they did a "static" balance which they know is not as good as using clip ons but it looks better when there is no weights on the outside and some people just don't like using sticky's. i have quite a bit of experience in a couple tire shops and after reading your posts here i think most of it was laziness on the shops part. my old boss owned this tire shop for 10 years already and still he does not zero out truck tires on the balancer because it is a "waste of time" and does not zero out any tires even car tires during the busy season right before winter so it is very possible they are not balanced very good at all. and for those of you who don't know "zero" is when you spin the tire after you have put on the weights to make sure they are in the precisely correct place.


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