# Tien Type SS vs. Motivational



## Jay (Apr 29, 2002)

I'm in the market to getting a new suspension system for my car and was wondering how the Tien's match up with the Moti's??? Ever since TurboEvo got the Tien group buy going, I've been really tempted to jump in, but was only concern with the min. 2.5 inch drop for sentras. 

Here's some question i have:

1) Whats the min. drop on motivations?
2) Is there any difference in strut lengths between the motivationals and the tiens?
3) Can anyone justify the $400 dollars difference for me?? What i mean to say is, is there benefits in the motivational that is worth the difference in price??

Any other info on the two would be appreciated, thanks.


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

What do you mean by the min 2.5 inch drop?


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## Neil (Aug 13, 2002)

He means the Tein's have a minimum front drop of 2.1" and the rear is min .6" Basically thats how much it lowers on the highest setting.


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## Jay (Apr 29, 2002)

Yes, my mistakes 2.1 inches.


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## Dynamitega (Feb 24, 2003)

Well, I can tell you that the difference between the Tein SS and the Tein Basics is mostly, if not all, that the SS have 16 way adjustable rebound rates, good for changing when you want to race or want to use for daily driving. All I do is daily driving, so the Basics are fine for me.

The Motivational should have specs somewhere, maybe on their website, but I've had quite a few people say that the Teins are wonderful to have. They make it a great ride. Maybe someone with experience with the 2 different kinds can tell you how good the Motivational are. Liu convinced me that the Teins were a must...


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## Dynamitega (Feb 24, 2003)

Oh, and if you're worried about the 2.1" drop, I wouldn't be, unless you have a lower bumper cover or something other than stock. It still leaves quite of a bit of clearence... just take a measuring tape and go see how much of a difference the 2.1" makes. Also, since our stocks are set up higher in the front by 0.4", you only have to lower the back 1.7 or so inches to make it even. I originally wanted to do a 1.5" drop, but now that I went out and looked at how much 2" was, I'm not worried, it'll look great.


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## Jay (Apr 29, 2002)

anyone who already has this setup, can you tell me how is the ride. Is it comfortable? does it make any noises? how does it compare with the gc/agx combo(i currently have these)?


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## Neil (Aug 13, 2002)

I've asked both PatScott and Nak about that and they both said its totally quiet no noise like the GC setup. Said it very comfortable. I believe PatScott said he is using the medium setting on his SS which would equate to the Basic setup. Oh and best of all they are shorter length so you get more travel, i asked Tein about this when I talked to them. Therefore less chance of bottoming evenwith the low drop.

Also about the amount. I thought 2.1" was a lot too, still sorta do but yesterday I went and measured my wheel gap. It looks to me like its approx 3.5" stock in the front. 

Also I've been told that the pillowballs are needed by one person and not needed by another person so thats a tossup for me. I don't need the adjustability and I have been told that it is really only needed if you go lower than the 2.1" minimum. I'll probably just get them for the hell of it if it helps with the alignment.

I'm sold on them, I just need to get wheels and keep telling myself that spending nearly $2200 on my car at once is worth it


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## Dynamitega (Feb 24, 2003)

Ouch, 2200 at once!? I hate big payouts like that, lol. I'm paying out 1550 on my car this month, so I guess it's about the same. I keep telling myself to justify the big spending, "The faster I spend, the longer I get to enjoy it..." It seems to work on myself...


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## Icej (Oct 25, 2002)

Yea I am getting the pillowballs I might not need them because my car could be alligned with out them but if I do it is just better to have them.


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## Jay (Apr 29, 2002)

hey icej, do you have a special shop that does aligning or something because dealer and other shops have told me that they can't align lowered cars? I'm pretty sold on these too except i want to hear more about what everyone thinks before i decide.


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## Neil (Aug 13, 2002)

Dynamitega said:


> *Ouch, 2200 at once!? I hate big payouts like that, lol. I'm paying out 1550 on my car this month, so I guess it's about the same. I keep telling myself to justify the big spending, "The faster I spend, the longer I get to enjoy it..." It seems to work on myself...  *


Hehe I am the worst when it comes to spending. I save like a fiend and hate spending, i got that from my dad. I spent $4000 on a computer that I built in december and man that one took me like a good 5 months of reasearch and stuff to get the balls to buy all the parts  

I am the same way with the car. I always wanted wheels n lowering n stuff but I really don't need it but I hate when I see another sentra around that looks like mine, I have this desire to be different. Heh I always think the same thing about spending now. I'm always tellin people at work n stuff, "you work your whole life to get money then your so damn old you can't have fun with it". I want my Ferrari or M3 or something now, I don't want it when I'm 60. But my other side says "the jobs right now are scarce so save your money because you'll need it to buy a house and when you have kids". ahhhh man. 

Jay, I had the Nissan Dealership tell me the same thing when I saw them a couple years ago. I asked him If I had a lowered car would he be able to do an alignment. I think I remember him saying if it was more then 1.5" he couldnt align it. I'd like to know the same thing. The last thing you need is to blow through $400 in tires every year.


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

The 2.5-inch drop is a concern for more reasons then just aesthetics. I am concerned about any setup that requires the spring to be at the top of the perch to achieve a reasonable drop. You have two types of travel on a suspension; strut travel and spring travel. The typical coil over spring as an example has a very small range of travel before the coils bind by hitting each other. A 7-inch long spring might only have 4.3 inch’s of travel. When you consider that you are going to loose about 2.5 of those inch’s to holding the car up on level ground you have very little left for suspension travel. Now take that same spring and put it at the highest adjustment of the strut and you can easily see how the springs coils will bind up before the car runs out of strut compression travel. As you lower the car past 2.5 inch’s you begin to add additional stress to the axles/cv joints. Personally, I would rather have a 2.5-inch drop with the spring riding in the middle of the strut then a 2.5-inch drop with the spring at the top. I also don’t know if TEIN will provide all the specs of their springs like Eibach does. They list the spring length, compression travel before coil bind that type of thing. Personally, I would love for the TEIN to be a great option. The price is good and quality seems to be there. At least with the Motivational you can choose the length of your springs to match the drop that you want.



Neil said:


> * I asked him If I had a lowered car would he be able to do an alignment. I think I remember him saying if it was more then 1.5" he couldnt align it. I'd like to know the same thing. The last thing you need is to blow through $400 in tires every year. *


You can always learn to do your own alignments or find a shop that will do it for you. Ultimately doing your own alignments is the better choice. I have a lifetime alignment on my car but I still spent the time and money to learn how to do my own. It cost me about 55 to do toe and about 100 to do camber and toe. After that it is free for the rest of your life.


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

Here is the info on how to do your own alignments. It works very well.


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## Neil (Aug 13, 2002)

So 98sr20ve you're saying that no matter how far a car is lowered it can be aligned? 

Yeah theres lots of stuff I need to learn one day, don't the shops use some type of computer to align cars? Theres no way I'm going 2.5" or lower, 2.1" is more than enough for me, honestly I'd rather have 1.7" but thats not an option.

Thanks for the heads up.


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

Yes, no matter how low you go your car can be aligned. It may not be able to be aligned on the Nissan rack. In fact many computer racks expect the car to be stock so if it is not the alignment is not very accurate in some ways (camber mostly) if the car is not stock heigth


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## nak1 (May 17, 2002)

mine is droped lower than the minimum im sure.... and i had it aligned by a shop and didnt even need alignment bolts! YOU DONT NEED THE PILLOWS! Yes they are good to have, and yes they give you race adjustability... but for street only use you can get away without them.

as for the drop..... I have NEVER bottomed out, and i drive like an ASSHOLE! haha. The roads here in tampa are terrible.... never a noise never a bump it couldnt take. It rides smooth as hell. and that is on 17's with 45's.


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## Neil (Aug 13, 2002)

raising and lowering the car shouldnt require you to realign it again right? Only after the installation?


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

When you change ride height you need a new alignment.


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## Icej (Oct 25, 2002)

I have 16's and I will probally drop it right around where pat did, his is pretty low, so I am just getting the pillowballs just incase because I don't want to not have them and than need them.


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## Neil (Aug 13, 2002)

98sr20ve said:


> *When you change ride height you need a new alignment. *


geez what a pain in the ass. I'm not like this very much anymore


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## Dynamitega (Feb 24, 2003)

Either that or spend 400-500 on tires every year or more...


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

Neil said:


> *geez what a pain in the ass. I'm not like this very much anymore  *


Why do you need to change the height all the time? Doing that is a pain as well. Just set it were you like it and leave it there.


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## Jay (Apr 29, 2002)

nak1 said:


> *
> 
> mine is droped lower than the minimum im sure.... and i had it aligned by a shop and didnt even need alignment bolts! YOU DONT NEED THE PILLOWS! *


See thats weird. I dont see any difference with the tein setup and the GC/AGX setup but i've been told more than once there is no way of aligning my car (shops at least). Whats the deal??? Shops in chicago are stupid? 

P.S thanks for the link sr20ve.


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## Icej (Oct 25, 2002)

I was also told that because I have rims my car can't be alligned, my moms boyfriend who is a mechanic uses a thing that hooks up to the lip of the rim right below the tire and because my rim doesn't have that lip it can't be alligned with it. That is probaly right but he has also told be he can't allign lowered cars. I am not going to take it to his shop for him to allign it.


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Steve, with the drop set at -2.1" on the Teins I dont think the seat is all the way up. Dont quote me on that though. Ill find out when I set my car at that.

From my experence with alignment racks(I am a tech, and I do alignments), Its not that lowered cars cannot be aligned. It that most times its a real pain. Most of that pain comes from not being able to get the camber in spec. Shops use camber bolts to correct minor problems with camber. Sometimes lowering a car down past 2" is too much for the bolts to correct. The Tein plates 100% fix that problem. And yes, most time "tuner" rims are also a pain because the alignment machine heads wont attach. Just do what I do, put your stockers back on(or get a friends stockers) when you go to get it aligned.


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## Icej (Oct 25, 2002)

Yea he said he is going to keep my stock wheels so that the heads can attach to the lip and it can be alligned.


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## Neil (Aug 13, 2002)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> *Steve, with the drop set at -2.1" on the Teins I dont think the seat is all the way up. Dont quote me on that though. Ill find out when I set my car at that.
> 
> From my experence with alignment racks(I am a tech, and I do alignments), Its not that lowered cars cannot be aligned. It that most times its a real pain. Most of that pain comes from not being able to get the camber in spec. Shops use camber bolts to correct minor problems with camber. Sometimes lowering a car down past 2" is too much for the bolts to correct. The Tein plates 100% fix that problem. And yes, most time "tuner" rims are also a pain because the alignment machine heads wont attach. Just do what I do, put your stockers back on(or get a friends stockers) when you go to get it aligned. *


Hey PatScott when you first installed the Tein's did you follow the instructions where it says leave 1 1/4" of thread left at first to settle and how long did you let it settle before you altered the height if so?


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> *Steve, with the drop set at -2.1" on the Teins I dont think the seat is all the way up. Dont quote me on that though. Ill find out when I set my car at that.
> 
> From my experence with alignment racks(I am a tech, and I do alignments), Its not that lowered cars cannot be aligned. It that most times its a real pain. Most of that pain comes from not being able to get the camber in spec. Shops use camber bolts to correct minor problems with camber. Sometimes lowering a car down past 2" is too much for the bolts to correct. The Tein plates 100% fix that problem. And yes, most time "tuner" rims are also a pain because the alignment machine heads wont attach. Just do what I do, put your stockers back on(or get a friends stockers) when you go to get it aligned. *


I used to talk to my old Firestone alignment guy about this. I really dont know (don't trust most shops). Of course I have 2.5 degrees of negative camber and I like it. I used to have 3.0. He did say that his 3.0 on his machine may be off due to my car being lower. Oh, well.


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## nak1 (May 17, 2002)

Neil said:


> *Hey PatScott when you first installed the Tein's did you follow the instructions where it says leave 1 1/4" of thread left at first to settle and how long did you let it settle before you altered the height if so? *


you only need to set it down and measure it again... and at that point you can adjust it to your prefrence before ever starting the car up. 

I liked mine just where it was and left it there...... beed driving like that for a couple monthes now. 

as for the alignment, i went to a mustang shop that specializes in saleens and rouch's and they had an alignment rack with extentions for lowered and kitted vehicles. They had it done in about 35 or 40 minutes.


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## Dynamitega (Feb 24, 2003)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> *Steve, with the drop set at -2.1" on the Teins I dont think the seat is all the way up. Dont quote me on that though. Ill find out when I set my car at that.
> 
> From my experence with alignment racks(I am a tech, and I do alignments), Its not that lowered cars cannot be aligned. It that most times its a real pain. Most of that pain comes from not being able to get the camber in spec. Shops use camber bolts to correct minor problems with camber. Sometimes lowering a car down past 2" is too much for the bolts to correct. The Tein plates 100% fix that problem. And yes, most time "tuner" rims are also a pain because the alignment machine heads wont attach. Just do what I do, put your stockers back on(or get a friends stockers) when you go to get it aligned. *


Hmm.. would SE-R Rims be considered stockers? Since they were stock on some models... Any idea how much the Tein plates run? I think I may get those when it's time and if it can't be aligned.


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## Icej (Oct 25, 2002)

In the group buy I beleive they are like 160 or something for the front pillowball mounts.


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## Neil (Aug 13, 2002)

nak1 said:


> *you only need to set it down and measure it again... and at that point you can adjust it to your prefrence before ever starting the car up.
> 
> I liked mine just where it was and left it there...... beed driving like that for a couple monthes now.
> 
> as for the alignment, i went to a mustang shop that specializes in saleens and rouch's and they had an alignment rack with extentions for lowered and kitted vehicles. They had it done in about 35 or 40 minutes. *


aww sweet. Didn't know you could adjust it all first day, I thought it had to settle a bit. Thats great news.


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## Greg200SE-R (Feb 5, 2003)

Hey Neil,
It is recommended that you allow some time for the springs to settle, and then check the alignment a second time. I suppose you can get away with not doing it, but any change in ride height affects your alignment (less critical for the rears of course). I noticed about 4-5 days after I installed the SSs, the rear end of the car dropped about 1/4" I just raised it back up a bit since there are no alignment adjustments for the rear anyway, but a change in the front height might affect things. I didn't take any measurements for the fronts to keep track of the settling but thats only because I plan to throw on a bunch of suspension parts and get another alignment anyway. Lifetime alignments aren't a bad idea if you come across them. Happy speeding all.


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## nak1 (May 17, 2002)

i have not noticed any settling in my springs yet.... but yes greg is right.... you should adjust it to how you want it prior to getting the alignment.


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## Icej (Oct 25, 2002)

can I just install the coilovers and let it settle for like a couple hours? I am not going to get it alligned right after I change the height that will probally happen a couple days after so I guess it doesn't matter.


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## McLaren F1 2003 (Jan 2, 2003)

so lemme get this straight, im going to put the tein's on my car for a 2.1" drop in the front and a 1.7" in the rear. after a week or so, the springs will settle. ill see how my car is after they settle, i might like it better so i wont raise it back up. anyway, after they settle, then i get the alignment?


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## Icej (Oct 25, 2002)

yea basically because if you get it alligned and they settle and you want it higher if it is the front you need another allignment.


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## Neil (Aug 13, 2002)

Thats what they are saying so you don't haev to get an alignment twice cuz if it setttles afterwards it may screw the alignment up.


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## Greg200SE-R (Feb 5, 2003)

The most critical alignment is the one after your new suspension is installed. It will be WAY out of whack. Go ahead and set the height the way you want it, maybe a little higher if you want to. But get that first alignment as soon as possible because driving around will eat your tires real fast, most likely. I read on the boards somewhere that the alignment shouldn't change if you keep the ride height the same when you put on your new suspension. This is BS. Anyway, the springs should settle by 2 weeks, possibly up to a month. You can keep track of the settling, and if it doesn't change, no real need to get another alignment. But, any change in ride height, whether its by settling or adjusting the coilovers, will affect the alignment. If your springs settle and you want your tires to last their longest, a second alignment is good. I went and got a lifetime alignment since it costs basically the same as 2 alignments. New suspension can be a pain in the ass but taking the right steps will get you the most out of it.


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## nak1 (May 17, 2002)

mine have not really sagged much... I had to have the alignment done imediately after i droped it cause the toe was WAY out in the front. I could feel the car pull to a side when i would slightly turn the wheel.

I have yet to realign mine..... I probaly should. Just rotate tires regularly.


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

98sr20ve said:


> *The 2.5-inch drop is a concern for more reasons then just aesthetics. I am concerned about any setup that requires the spring to be at the top of the perch to achieve a reasonable drop. *


I checked with Pat some more and this does not appear to be an issue. The spring is not able to get high enough to cause coil bind.


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