# Time To Replace that Chain



## mootsman (Oct 21, 2006)

Hi All,

Well, its time to replace that timing chain on my 97 KA24E that I have asked about previously. It has moved from just a rattle at startup, to a slight rattle at idle. I am going out of town next week in another vehicle, so she's going to the shop.

Two questions: Should I use Nissan parts, or would a set from NAPA be OK?

And, are there other things that should be done at the same time. For example, on my Subaru, you always do the timing belts, cam and crank seals, and water pump at the same time. Is there a group of items that I should replace here. The mechanic is good, but he's a friend, more familiar with Toyotas, and won't mind me asking him to do whatever.

Thanks


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## mootsman (Oct 21, 2006)

*One More Thing*

Someone told me that you have to pull the head to replace the timing chain, guides etc. Is that right? I was picturing just pulling some equipment and the front cover.

Thanks


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## rbo1577186 (Jan 16, 2005)

FSM doesn't mention anything about pulling head. FSM calls for removing.....

Radiator
Fan Shround
Belts
Power Steering Pumps/Brackets
Idler pulleys
Rocker Cover
Oil Pan
Crank Pulley
Oil Pump

I may be doing this Tuesday/Wednesday.... Just by looking I'm gonna say replace the front main, and if it's high mileage a new oil pump wouldn't be a bad idea. *I haven't done this before, I just looking at the FSM diagrams.* I was looking at buying my parts from NAPA also. I just don't want the plastic plated guides. I don't beleive Nissan used them after 97.... My 97 HB started the start up noise at around 50k. I now have 90k... It isn't too bad, just like to have everything running/sounding right. If you haven't already... always use an oil filter with a check valve, this will help out the timing chain noise. It will still do it, just for 1 - 2 seconds as opposed to 3 or more seconds.


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## mootsman (Oct 21, 2006)

rbo1577186 said:


> FSM doesn't mention anything about pulling head. FSM calls for removing.....
> 
> Radiator
> Fan Shround
> ...


I use Nissan oil filters, but in my case they have never made any difference in the rattle.

Yes, I was wondering about the oil pump. I have read somewhere on this forum that they can be "weak" on these trucks. I think I'll add that to the list.

Thanks for the input.


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## mootsman (Oct 21, 2006)

Just FYI, I could not find the parts needed to do this job from any Nissan dealer in the state of Colorado. After hours on the phone, I decided to go with NAPA. I had my local NAPA store call their tech support to make sure the kit came with two metal guides - nope, 1 metal, one plastic. I canceled the order. It will take at least a week for me to even find the parts from Nissan, then I hope to get the job done. Frustrating!


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## rbo1577186 (Jan 16, 2005)

I'll let you know when I get it..(the guides that is)

A word on oil filters.....

You have a $3 oil filter and a $6 oil filter. 

$3 filter is the basic paper media filter that you normally get a jiffy lube. 

$6 filter has the check valve (which holds back a little oil) which get the oil back into the engine quicker at start up. Usually has a better filter media and you normally get the grip finish on the filter. 

I don't know about the Nissan filters but I know Wix, Fram Tough Guard, MotorCraft, and AC Delco all have the Check valve.


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## Oldnissanguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Try Pinnacle Nissan online wholesale parts department presented by nissanparts.org.


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## mootsman (Oct 21, 2006)

rbo1577186 said:


> I'll let you know when I get it..(the guides that is)
> 
> A word on oil filters.....
> 
> ...


I'm all for using good oil filters. My understanding is that the Nissan filter does have the check valve, and a good element, that is why I have been using it. I am just saying that my experience has unfortunately been no difference in the length or amount of timing chain rattle at start-up with any of several good filters I have tried. Others on this forum have seen a significant reduction in rattle when using Nissan filters.

I am going to order Nissan parts for the timing chain replacement. Please do let me know when you get your kit from NAPA if it has a plastic upper guide. The NAPA tech department said it did. If they are both metal, then you will have what should be a good, and less expensive solution.


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## mootsman (Oct 21, 2006)

I ordered through Pinnacle Nissan. they had everything in stock, Nissan Parts, and it was a little cheaper than NAPA.


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## bobuddy (Jun 2, 2007)

Will you post afterwards and tell us how easy/difficult it was to replace the timing chain? I am looking at doing this also. Thanks!


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

Nissan stopped using the plastic guide after the 95 model year. If you are having "rattle problems" on a 96 or later KA24E, I would make sure to get a new tensioner and also to blow clear the oil port to the tensioner. When the tensioner is off, spray brake cleaner and compressed air into the oil port until it blows clear out the oil filter adapter (obviously, remove the filter first). It wouldn't hurt to test the oil pressure prior to disassembly; I haven't had too many issues with bad pumps unless the vehicle was under-maintained. You don't need to remove the head. If there are a lot of miles, I would replace the tensioner, chain, 2 gears, 2 guides, valve cover gasket, front crank seal, coolant, oil and filter, front cover "O" seal. Other considerations would be the water pump and belts, as needed. I always recommend Nissan parts. Nissan filters do have a valve and a very well constructed. On the aftermarket, Purolator Pure-One filters are also very good.


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## rbo1577186 (Jan 16, 2005)

I posted something along with in the HB section. You were right about the guides, they looked great. My buddy said it had to be the tensioner.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

The oil passage to the tensioner is very small on both the single cam and double cam KA24's. It only takes the slightest amount of debris to restrict the oil passage, which will cause a lack of proper tension on the "slinger" guide and subsequent chain rattle. For this reason, it is important to remove the oil filter and tensioner and blow clear the passage anytime there is a timing chain or guide issue. Since you're there and to be on the safge side, a new tensioner would definately be in order.


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## rbo1577186 (Jan 16, 2005)

I have another post in the HB section. I don't know WTF went wrong. 

I bought a kit from Top Line. Part # CTK D-28. Kit cost $128 plus tax here in NC from an Import Parts place. 
Local Import parts place says they use this one the most. Also told me he hasn't heard of any guides without the plastic. Came with new Sprockets, guides bolts, chain, tensioner, FM seal, and the 2 seals that go at the bottom passenger side of the block.

There is a smaller seal and small O Ring left over that we do no know where it goes. Looked and looked but never saw a matching part from the factory setup.


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## rbo1577186 (Jan 16, 2005)

Back to bobuddy, this job isn't too hard, *just a lot of work*. Two people that know what they were doing should be able to do this job in less than 5 hours - Thats pulling the oil pan, new front main seal, no cutting corners. Two Average DIYers taking their time paying good attention roughly 8 - 10 hours. *Read all material you can before you start.* I was overconfident having more expireinced help, I think that's where we went wrong. Just take you time and write things down/draw diagrams if you have to.

Things to be removed.......
Radiator/shroud
fan
Belts
Power steering pump/brackets/ a pulley or 2
remove 3 of 4 bolts on the crossmemeber under the oil pan. Loosen the 4th, then let the Xmemeber hang down. Then remove the oil pan.
oil pump
Crank Pulley
Distributor 
Air breather assy
Air intake tube.
Valve cover
Spark Plugs
Then, unless I forgot something the Front cover can be removed.

You will need a large puller the get the crank pulley off, and a smaller one to get the oil drive gear off. 27 mm Socket for Crank 24 mm socket for Cam. Make sure you got form a gasket, oil, anit-freeze, and plenty of GOJO before you start.


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## mootsman (Oct 21, 2006)

bobuddy said:


> Will you post afterwards and tell us how easy/difficult it was to replace the timing chain? I am looking at doing this also. Thanks!


I got all my parts in. I'm not doing the job myself, but I'll let you know how it goes.


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## 97HardBody (Nov 16, 2005)

*seals?*



smj999smj said:


> Nissan stopped using the plastic guide after the 95 model year. If you are having "rattle problems" on a 96 or later KA24E, I would make sure to get a new tensioner and also to blow clear the oil port to the tensioner. When the tensioner is off, spray brake cleaner and compressed air into the oil port until it blows clear out the oil filter adapter (obviously, remove the filter first). It wouldn't hurt to test the oil pressure prior to disassembly; I haven't had too many issues with bad pumps unless the vehicle was under-maintained. You don't need to remove the head. If there are a lot of miles, I would replace the tensioner, chain, 2 gears, 2 guides, valve cover gasket, front crank seal, coolant, oil and filter, front cover "O" seal. Other considerations would be the water pump and belts, as needed. I always recommend Nissan parts. Nissan filters do have a valve and a very well constructed. On the aftermarket, Purolator Pure-One filters are also very good.


HI i'm also thinking about this project, while looking for the parts i dont see a front cover "o" seal. Do you have anymore info on that or am i just blind?


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## rbo1577186 (Jan 16, 2005)

I got done finally, posted the results on another thread. My problem was the lifters took a long time to get the air out. Just had to let it run for a while. - App 40 minutes off and on. The last 5 minutes i revved it up to 1500 rpms or so. Don't know if it made a difference or not. The first 35 minutes or so was at idle. 

I found a piece of metal when dropping the oil pan that really scared me. It appears to be an oil galley plug that has been there since leaving the factory??

I don't know about the front cover O seal either. I have a small seal with an O Ring left over from my kit. I looked all over during the job, the FSM, and the Haynes manual and I don't see it anywhere. The only seals I see are the 2 small seals in the front cover( just below the tensioner), the front main seal, and using the FormAGasket on the Front Cover, Oil pan, and the half moon seals in the front and rear of the head.

If anyone wants a write up I'll do it, just be prepared for a lengthy write up. It's not a hard job, but it is a *lot of work*.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

The "two small seals" were what I was referring to by "O" seal...which is really a steel collar with sealant around the edge. It is uses to seal the oil ports that carry the oil in the block to and from the oil pump at the front cover.


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## bobuddy (Jun 2, 2007)

rbo -
Yes, if you want to take the time to do a write up - I am interested! This will be a DIY'r with some experience - so maybe this will be longer for us to do than the rest of you guys! 

bobuddy


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## rbo1577186 (Jan 16, 2005)

boBuddy, I'm starting a new thread for the write up.


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## jblakeslee (Nov 30, 2005)

*New Link*



rbo1577186 said:


> boBuddy, I'm starting a new thread for the write up.


 can you provide a link? I did not see it anywhere. Thanks


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## 97HardBody (Nov 16, 2005)

*metal or plastic?*



mootsman said:


> I ordered through Pinnacle Nissan. they had everything in stock, Nissan Parts, and it was a little cheaper than NAPA.


Hi, did you notice if the chain guides from pinnacle were both metal, or was one metal and one plastic? I also ordered the guides and other goodies from pinnacle, and was a little dissapointed to find that one of the guides does infact have a plastic guide on it, so not sure what to think about that since they are supposedly supposed to be all metal at this point.


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## mootsman (Oct 21, 2006)

Yes I did notice that. I talked to a few different nissan parts guys after I received the guides, all said that the deal is that the old ones were ALL plastic. These new ones have a plastic guide portion with the metal backing. The metal backing is what keeps the chain from wearing all the way through and allowing water and oil to mix. At this point, I am assuming that's true because they all say the same thing. Why the whole thing isn't metal, I don't know, maybe too much wear on the chain. I am finally taking mine in to have the new chain and oil pump installed this week.

smj999smj, might be able to shed some light on it.


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## mootsman (Oct 21, 2006)

Well I finally got it done. My buddy/mechanic did the job. He has done a lot more Toyotas, and thought the KA24 was "much more involved." Oh well, it runs great. He poured some oil on the top end before putting the rocker cover back on. He said it didn't rattle very long at all after he started it back up. Might be partly due to the 5/30 synthetic oil. 

As for me, I am amazed at how quiet it is. I knew it was rattling on startup, and I could hear it a little at idle, but now I realize just how much noise the chain was making all the time. The bottom half of the plastic part of the guide was broken off. You can see where the chain was hitting metal on the guide. I'm just glad it wasn't the old all plastic variety.

Thanks for all the input. Even though I didn't do this job myself, I went into it well informed, and so did my mechanic on his first Nissan timing chain.


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## sharpeusn (May 9, 2007)

Genuine Nissan Parts :: Hardbody Truck (D21U) 1995-1997 :: CourtesyParts.com


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## Chezelle (Sep 8, 2002)

Here's an excellent link below to help anyone change their timing chain & guides step by step. A few of the steps may be off a bit since the link refers to a 240 but most of the info is close or to the Tfor a Nissan P-up. I used it along with the Nissan service manual and had no trouble at all. You'll need a pulley puller to get the balancer pulley off. Mine wasn't on very tight but just enough that I needed a puller to get it off. You do NOT have to pull the head. Just take 6 bolts out of the front of the oil pan. When you are sure you have all the bolts out of the front cover along with the oil pump and distributor out you will probably have to hit the water pump a few times to get the cover to loosen up. Also don't forget to put in the 2 o-rings that go in the front cover/block when you re-assemble. My guides weren't too bad but the timing chain was sloppy loose. I figure might as well replace the works while I'm in there so put new Chain, tensioner, guides, water pump and belts. I also agree with the previous poster saying to blow out the tensioner oil hole while its out.

Check out:


Timing Chain Install


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