# 1/4 mile 0-60, shifting points



## Guest (Feb 3, 2003)

yo i just got some question about 2002 se-r's and spec v's
first of all i am wondering whats the exact diferences between the 2 cause my buddy told me the se-r is actaully faster..i also would like to know the 1/4 mile 0-60, and what rpm ppl shift at cause when i was test driving the car, the dealer was trying to show the car off to me and he shifted pass redline and this car had 147 km on it isn't that bad before breakin at least just wondering how other ppl shift also?? when does valve float or whatever happen on this car? thanks in advance 
Jason


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2003)

Damn, I wouldn't buy that one. It's a stroked engine so it's got a pretty high piston speed already. Redlining it that early is just plain stupid. Wished all cars came from the factory with something like the "CarChip". That way you could see if it's been beat before you buy it.

Oh, and a five speed faster than a six with better tires?

Maybe AS fast... maybe.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

whoever said the SER is faster is full of crap. simply more power and closer gear ratios on the Spec V when talking stock vs. stock.

here's some advice for everyone. Stop listening to random people. If they know nothing about Nissan, or don't own the car they're talking about, and don't know a whole lot about cars, don't listen to them!


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## red SE-R (Jun 23, 2002)

ok lets see if anyone here really knows about cars. 
just because one car has a 5 speed and the other has a 6 sp does *NOT* mean that the 6sp will instantly be faster. yes the spec has 10 more hp and 5 more ft/lbs more torque. *WOW... THIS MEANS PRECISELY DICK IN THE OVERALL PICTURE*...why you ask? let me enlighten everyone about a few things. 

the 6sp comes the hlsd.. why is ithis important? lets see, first the driver of the spec spends more time (granted not much) shifting gears, with the short gear ratios and an extra gear. second the ever so popular hlsd comes into play at this point. why? because the 6sp uses more horse power to operate than the 5spd tranny does. thus this 10 hp and 5 ft/lbs advantage goes right out the tail pipe. and with the tendancy of wheel hop being more prone in the spec since it has the hlsdthis poses a problem. because wheel hop causes a loss of traction and speed. thus the time in the 60' and 1/4 mile suffers. this detrimental as the 60' is one of the most crucial points in a 1/4 mile run. 
then there is the fact that the spec has 17" rims (these are heavier than the 16") require more torque to get them spinning than the 16" wheels (the 16" wheels have less rotational inertial mass than the 17" wheels). now take a lighter car with less time spent shifting, less wheel hop, less rotational inertia in the rims, and wheel dyno numbers that are within 5 hp and 1-3 ft/lbs torque of each other. and this works out to a drivers race with the advantage to the base se-r by a couple tenths, thats it. and this is all it takes to win a race. yes the spev will most likely have a faster trap speed but its who makes the finish line first, w/o redlighting wins the race.

now put a free flowing exhaust on the base se-r and guess what it will pull on a spec any day of the week. because it will gain more power from this mod than the spec could hope to. as the base se-r's motor is choked by its restrictive exhaust.
the spec v sacrifices some of its overall straight line performance with the 6 speed, hlsd, and 17" rims. 

now put these two cars in a autocross race and the spec does gain a slight advantage, with its slightly stiffer springs (%15 stiffer) and the hlsd. but its not much of one. 

these two cars are *VERY* closely matched. there is no clear and decisive winner. its the drivers skill that decide the overall winner.

also the final drive on the 5 spd is taller than the final on the '03 spec 6spd. and with the current '03 tranny specs the advantage goes to the base SE-R as far as gear ratios go.

Base SE-R 5spd-------2003 Spec V 6sd
1st: 3.53 --------------------- 3.15 
2nd: 1.98 -------------------- 1.94 
3rd: 1.45 --------------------- 1.39
4th: .95 ---------------------- 1.05
5th: .80 ----------------------- .80
6th:-n/a------------------------.67 
final 4.13--------------------- 4.08

and before anyone goes off calling b/s on this why not take a few min. ask some one who has exp in racing these cars and/or others professionally, for their opinon first. and i bet you they will agree with me. that this is in fact a drivers race.


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2003)

*damn good reply...*

Ok, you made your point.. but man.. now after I read that.... it really makes me think about why I bothered to even get a Spec V. I mean, besides for the HLSD, 6-speed, and 17" rims, then there's no real difference. I like to 'think' the Spec V is something of a special thing you know? But with all that jazz about being equally matched cars, it's almost depressing. It's almost like comparing a base car with a top of the line model. Someone wanna remind me why I paid extra for the Spec V now?


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## dwill9578 (Jan 13, 2003)

I wouldn't let that get you down, go a little beyond a less restrcitive exhaust on spec v ie:headers,pulleys etc than the Se-r is gone. it goes far beyond 15% stiffer springs,wheels and a little more power. after a few mods (interior,exterior) the spec-v is better than a se-r no matter which way you look at it, and if you gotta go that in depth to find a diffrence between the two than oh well. don't get me wrong the se-r is great, the spec-v is more money for a reason, it's just got a little more that some gear heads look for.


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## red SE-R (Jun 23, 2002)

well considering i only paind 14.7 for my base se-r and the dealer wants 19.5 (and wond budge on the price) I went with the base se-r for a number of reasons. Also i will soon have a set of rims, springs (from a friend who is going after market)and 03 6sp tranny and ecu (from another buddy at a body shop) for $850 total. and i have already done the exhaust, so for far less than the dealer wants for the spec, I will have basically the same car for thousands less. i just had to wait a little.

i at no point have said that the spec v is not worth buying. it is definitely worth the money. but i didnt like the interior seat color, and were uncomfortable as hell to me. the fanatics package wasnt that impressive to me. and i test drove several specs and all had a crunch box. so i decided to go with the base se-r for now and mod it with spec v parts later.

so dont get down that the base se-r is so close to the spec. nissan did this for a reason. they could have down graded the base se-r alot more that they did, but they chose it to be a more subtle version in the se-r lineup. And for people like myself who didnt want to spend or had that kind of money. or didnt like some aspect of the spec v but still wanted the performance. the base se-r is a perfect choice. im upgrading mine to a spec soon.
i am just getting tired of people knocking the base se-r. its not a bad car at all, yes it too has its downfalls like the spec does. i dont like loosing speed in the corners cause the inside wheel just roasts the tire (no lsd), for starters. second the interior color needs a little help. but this is all fixed in time. 

so like i said dont get down cause these cars are closely matched. the spec has its advantages over the base se-r.
and the base se-r has its advantages over the spec. you just have to look at what they are and make a determination. if the 02 spec's tranny didnt crunch, seats were more comfy (to me) and they would have come down on the price a little bit i would have a spec myself. and not the base se-r if that says anything.


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## BIGBULS (Sep 24, 2002)

I do have a question on the gear ratios posted.

I fully agree with what is posted as far as the 2003 Spec V is concerned (way better gear setup/spacing than 2002), but while the standard SE-R's internal gears look right, I think that may be the wrong Axle ratio posted. Are you sure that is correct? Because if it is, the standard SE-R will redline 5th gear somewhere right around 130mph, which is kind of low (and quite doable with 140whp).

Also, I agree that in a straight up drag race, there is very little difference between the two cars (the actual power difference to the wheels is much less than the claimed 10hp), but there is more than just a minor change in spring rates and the HLSD as far as chassis differences are concerned. For instance; the Spec V has polyurethane front suspension bushings, a MUCH fatter rear anti roll bar, and supposedly different shock valving. Also, I'm not SURE on this one, but I understand they have different steering racks too. Not to mention the 17in wheels and 215/45R17 tires (not the greatest, but better than the Firestones on the base car).

I stil like Spec V's simply becuase it's a nice torquey car, that is finally geared fairly well (notice the rpm drop off between gears is a lot less than on standard SE-R's....this would be important at higher speeds).

Oh......and the original statement of the salesman shifting past redline....couldn't have been by too much, because the rev limiter cuts down *just* after the marked redline.


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## BIGBULS (Sep 24, 2002)

I just got bored and did a little snooping on the internet.

These are the gear ratios *I* found for the various SE-R's, and speeds in gear at redline (actual 6200rpm......where the rev limit cuts....about 6250-6300rpm on the tach). Remember, these speeds are at the rev LIMIT, so at indicated redline, speeds will be *slightly* lower.

5 speed 2002-03 SE-R (195/55R16 tires)

1st 3.154 (34mph)
2nd 1.842 (58mph)
3rd 1.258 (86mph)
4th 0.947 (114mph)
5th 0.773 (140mph....top speed is likely around 130-135mph drag limited...*slightly* better gearing than the Spec V)
Axle 4.133

6 speed 2002 Spec V (215/45R17 tires)

1st 3.417 (30mph)
2nd 1.944 (52mph)
3rd 1.258 (81mph)
4th 0.947 (107mph)
5th 0.773 (131mph)
6th 0.630 (161mph.........top speed is drag limited around the low 130mph range though)
Axle 4.429

6 speed 2003 Spec V (215/45R17 tires)

1st 3.154 (35mph)
2nd 1.944 (57mph)
3rd 1.392 (79mph)
4th 1.055 (105mph)
5th 0.809 (136mph...there is a chance the Spec *may* not be able to rev limit 5th due to power restrictions)
6th 0.673 (164mph....again, top speed would be either just shy of 5th gear redline, or around the low 130mph range in 6th)
Axle 4.087


The 5 speed ratios are for the 2002 models, but I don't believe the standard SE-R changed for 2003. Also, outside of the shorter axle ratio, the SE-R gears are the same as those found in the 5 speed Nissan Altima (the Altima has a 3.81 axle ratio). I also believe the new ratios for the Spec V are the same ones as found in 6 speed Maxima's, but again with a shorter axle ratio (Max's get a 3.81 also).


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## ccroaddog (Jun 20, 2002)

red SE-R said:


> *well considering i only paind 14.7 for my base se-r and the dealer wants 19.5 (and wond budge on the price) I went with the base se-r for a number of reasons. Also i will soon have a set of rims, springs (from a friend who is going after market)and 03 6sp tranny and ecu (from another buddy at a body shop) for $850 total. and i have already done the exhaust, so for far less than the dealer wants for the spec, I will have basically the same car for thousands less. i just had to wait a little.
> 
> i at no point have said that the spec v is not worth buying. it is definitely worth the money. but i didnt like the interior seat color, and were uncomfortable as hell to me. the fanatics package wasnt that impressive to me. and i test drove several specs and all had a crunch box. so i decided to go with the base se-r for now and mod it with spec v parts later.
> 
> ...



you make some good points but do you have any proof. as in a race between two pro drivers with totally stock motors....and the best 1/4 mile time in a modded SE-R and Spec-V or even a dyno to see if you really lose a lot of power in the hlsd. I just wanna see if what u say is actually true.


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## red SE-R (Jun 23, 2002)

from what i could get from nissan is the springs are the only difference. the struts, and rack have the same part numbers as the base se-r, or at least the parts guy said they were when i called about this. i have not had a chance to look and see what kind of bushings, and how large the rear sway bar is in the base se-r yet. im going by mossy tomorrow ill look into it. if they are different these can be changed over. and these parts cannot be that expensive. and make a great prodject for the base se-r drivers. if they want it.

130 is pretty much right for the base se-r i got 135+- out of mine 
before the fuel cut off.
and the fuel cut off (i wish was not abrupt land more subtle) is 6250 rpm

and those are the right numbers for the 02 spec tranny. 
and no the 5 spd didnt change at all. but since its from the altima, im curious about something. i need to look into the altima tranny. 

over all if you like a more flashy ride go with the spec.
if you want a more subtle ride go with the base se-r.


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## BIGBULS (Sep 24, 2002)

I just went back in and edited my above post, and added a bit of extra information.

Thought I'd be helpful


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## dwill9578 (Jan 13, 2003)

BIGBULS you are rigth on about bushings and roll bars,valveing- according to stillen rep and parts manager at local nissan dealership. the thing is, not everyone wanted an se-r or spec the second they came out. by waiting you gain many improvements and more room to negoiate a fair price. mine ran me a little under 16G's with no ABS,Rockford, nothin just what comes standard on 03 spec's. Believe it or not I'm not THAT depressed about having everything in my apec-v that you have to add to your base se-r. All to come together for a car that might be a little faster than a bone stock spec. As for shift points(original question posted) for spec's I've found launch around 2'600rpm shift about 150-200 short of redline for good results.


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## BIGBULS (Sep 24, 2002)

Going off of QR25DE dyno charts and the available gearing, shiftpoints should ALL be as close to the rev limiter as possible (redline works fine).

As for the launch....the rpm for the clutch drop will vary according to surface, but you want minimal wheelspin, with the tires hooking up right around 2500rpm to take advantage of all that midrange torque (have another look at a dyno chart to see how I got the 2500rpm figure).

If you want to figure out where to shift a car, plot the power curve (off of a dyno) vs each gear (speed in each gear), and see where the curves intersect. Read some of Dave Colemans articles out of SCC to see what I'm talking about. As for picking where to hook up at, look on the torque curve to see where it gets FAT (2400-2500rpm on a QR.....not till nearly 4500rpm on an SR), and go off that for a hookup point. You see?


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2003)

hey thanks everyone for your replays that was helpful and really fast to i didn't expect the replys so quickly


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