# gutless at low revs?



## i_wanna_riot69 (Aug 5, 2002)

Hey guys I have a 1989 Nissan Cefiro, it has the same engine as a skyline (RB20E - not the RB20DE) and it's an auto. One thing I have noticed about it is that when you come off the mark the car is really gutless (I mean, it can't keep up with 1300cc cars) and then as soon as it hits about 2000 rpm the car just takes off, kind of like it has a turbo but it doesn't. Do any of you guys know what the problem be? it does this no matter what gear it's in cos when you put your foot down and it cycles through the gears, whenever it changes down it's gutless and then builds up again, it's a pain in the arse (other than that, it's a damn great car). Any 2c worth of input would be great!


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## JZK316 (Sep 18, 2002)

The skyline engine is the rb26dett. But sounds like something is going out.


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## mscott (Jun 28, 2002)

JZK316 said:


> *The skyline engine is the rb26dett. But sounds like something is going out. *


Actually only the Gtr models have that engine. From that year some lesser skyline did have the engine he was referring to.


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## infrared (Aug 1, 2002)

The the R32 skyline does share engines with the Cefiro from the RB20DE to the RB25DE. 
What I would suggest is possibly an engine swap to aSkyline Type M engine or a GTS (RB25DE or DET) they would work with your RWD and auto tranny.
I have a friend with a Cefiro I'll see if he has any ideas.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2003)

I have a 1990 Laurel Medalist with RB20DE, check your ignition timing and TPS voltage.


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## TcobrA (Mar 4, 2003)

i_wanna_riot69 said:


> *Hey guys I have a 1989 Nissan Cefiro, it has the same engine as a skyline (RB20E - not the RB20DE) and it's an auto. One thing I have noticed about it is that when you come off the mark the car is really gutless (I mean, it can't keep up with 1300cc cars) and then as soon as it hits about 2000 rpm the car just takes off, kind of like it has a turbo but it doesn't. Do any of you guys know what the problem be? it does this no matter what gear it's in cos when you put your foot down and it cycles through the gears, whenever it changes down it's gutless and then builds up again, it's a pain in the arse (other than that, it's a damn great car). Any 2c worth of input would be great! *


Ah, a significant lack of vitamin T? That's torque........

Happiness is a very broad and flat torque curve. You are experiencing the basic small, high reving engine phenom. This is compounded by the automatic tranny.

As that "slush box" shifts up, engine revs drop. You have to keep spinning the engine up, as you accelerate. Does this tranny have overdrive? That wont help either, if it does.

Have fun


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## Demon Dave (Jan 6, 2003)

My old R33 GTS had the RB20E engine and it lacked power at anything below 2000RPM. I don't think there is a lot you can do to remedy this...

I know some people who have big bore exhausts fitted have lost low end power/ torque as a result of less back pressure. I can't confirm this though. 

Dave


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2003)

clueless here, maybe the auto tranny? anyone thats ever driven mr R34 would be shot if they called it gutless at ANY revvs


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## TcobrA (Mar 4, 2003)

This is what is missing:
RPM	RWHP	Torque	


1500	199	404	<not gutless
2000	289.71	439.4	<not gutless
2250	312	440.2	<not gutless
2500	330	445.3	
2750	346.7	452.3	
3000	366.3	460	
3250	384.6	465	
3500	390.2	469.2	
3750	408.2	471	
4000	414.1	472.2	
4250	428.2	473	
4500	438.9	474.2	
4750	450.2	475.3	<not gutless
5000	459.6	472.22	
5250	472.0	471.6	
5500	476.5	465.3	
5750	493.5	463	
6000	502.3	459.1	<not at all gutless
6250	499.7	452.3	<not gutless
6500	467.3	451.2	<not gutless
6750	320.2	390.1	<not gutless

Greater than 400 lbft 1500 thru 6500 RPM
FLAT AND BROAD TORQUE CURVE! PLOT IT OUT!
This kind of torque curve isn't easy or CHEAP with 4! There is no substitute for cubic inches. You folks are looking for something that just isn't there! Sorry.


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## s13sr20chris (Apr 22, 2003)

mustangs suck!
oh, and for the first post check your maf(guess). i am a dealer tech in the states and we dont have rb motors, but a lot of us nissans that have faulty maf will lack power untill you get to 2-3k rpms. just something to try.


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## TcobrA (Mar 4, 2003)

s13sr20chris said:


> *mustangs suck!
> oh, and for the first post check your maf(guess). i am a dealer tech in the states and we dont have rb motors, but a lot of us nissans that have faulty maf will lack power untill you get to 2-3k rpms. just something to try. *


First off, what does a Nissan show for low RPM grunt?

But, as I see here, you guys are about as classy as New Jersey f-body owners. Mustangs suck indeed! You mean like the new 350ZX that became just a spec in my rear view mirror just last night? Impressive. It seemed about as fast as an Aries K, and THEY suck!

b-bye


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Classy?  Look guys, this poster is just a child or someone with a weak intellect. Its no use to post relevant facts because this poster only wants to talk shit and stir up touble. Frankly, I'd ban him if I were a MOD, but not because I fear what he has to say, but rather its because what he says is mindless inflamatory blather.

Yes, the Mustang can be made very fast and car have a lot of torque. And, I'd even love to have a yellow 1994-1998 Mustang full of Steeda parts - one that could outperfomr the CobraR and still be cheaper. But, the Skyline turbo cars are not one-not wonders (as is too often the case with Mustangs, F-bodies, and Corvettes) with drag racing only. Skylines are about total performance, ie corners - both left and RIGHT. 

If you were really interested in Skylines, you would have investigated further before posting such tripe. If you ever get serious about education, we can help you learn more - and facts, not just the other mindless blatherings of children back in the USA who only know the Skyline via video games. If not, BAN THIS GUY!


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## TcobrA (Mar 4, 2003)

scourge said:


> *Classy?  Look guys, this poster is just a child or someone with a weak intellect. Its no use to post relevant facts because this poster only wants to talk shit and stir up touble. Frankly, I'd ban him if I were a MOD, but not because I fear what he has to say, but rather its because what he says is mindless inflamatory blather.
> 
> Yes, the Mustang can be made very fast and car have a lot of torque. And, I'd even love to have a yellow 1994-1998 Mustang full of Steeda parts - one that could outperfomr the CobraR and still be cheaper. But, the Skyline turbo cars are not one-not wonders (as is too often the case with Mustangs, F-bodies, and Corvettes) with drag racing only. Skylines are about total performance, ie corners - both left and RIGHT.
> 
> If you were really interested in Skylines, you would have investigated further before posting such tripe. If you ever get serious about education, we can help you learn more - and facts, not just the other mindless blatherings of children back in the USA who only know the Skyline via video games. If not, BAN THIS GUY! *


Actually, I am not a child. Not by a long shot.
To impugn my intellect is juvenile. You cannot possibly know me for the few posts I have here. Ban me if you will, but that would indicate the level of denial you are in regarding small displacement engines, the cars you drive, and their prowess in comparison to what I, and others I count as my friends, drive. I rarely see folks on the BMW, Audi, Lamborghini, Ferrari, or Austin Martin forums treat others with such distain. Even the folks on the GM forums show more respect to others than you folks seem to.
Come and visit us at our numerous forums. Forums where fiction is not tolerated and fact is not debated. Ban me if you will. Do so and loose a measure of the full richness of knowledge that could be yours if you were to simply listen.

Good Day


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Bullsh|t. You are either a child or a troll. Had you the intellectual ability you claim to have, you would have been able to discern between an RB20DE and an RB26DETT. Since you could not, your ignorance is apparent. You may not be a child but you certainly act like one. Again, I don't call for your ban out of fear (growing up in Tennessee, I am well aware of your loud mouthed, inbred, trailer park, limited future types all too well). We don't fear you any more than an insect. However, just as the buzzing and biting become annoying, so does the ignorant tripe/trolling that you and your Dumbmestic types bring to import boards.


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## TcobrA (Mar 4, 2003)

scourge said:


> *Bullsh|t. You are either a child or a troll. Had you the intellectual ability you claim to have, you would have been able to discern between an RB20DE and an RB26DETT. Since you could not, your ignorance is apparent. You may not be a child but you certainly act like one. Again, I don't call for your ban out of fear (growing up in Tennessee, I am well aware of your loud mouthed, inbred, trailer park, limited future types all too well). We don't fear you any more than an insect. However, just as the buzzing and biting become annoying, so does the ignorant tripe/trolling that you and your Dumbmestic types bring to import boards. *


If I were truly interested in making any distinctions here I would study the topic. And, yes, I am ignorant with regards to the RB2XDEXX. I am not concerned about that. I am sure you are not as well acquainted with plasma containment physics as I am. So what? That doesn't make you stupid.

As far as limited future types go, I know a few, but I assure you that I am not counted in their number.

As you have chosen to lower this discussion to personal affronts, it is you that has shown the extent and quality of his breeding. Pity that.

As far as my limited future goes, I am 42 and COMFORTABLY RETIRED from high tech. I founded a couple of companies and, thanks to God’s favor, did quite well for myself (and the company stock holders).

Dumbmestic! Cleaver. I’ll bet you get all the ladies with your rapier wit.

All of my automobiles are not domestics. I love my Mustangs. I also loved my '94 Diablo VT. But the ex got that along with the house in Boca. I got to pay for my boys' college tuition. (I have two.) Oh well.

I expect that you’ll want to be getting back to your double wide now there Cleatis.

Cheers


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Then you should not have spewed so much sh|t from your mouth looking to troll. Seven posts and you haven't once posted anything of consequence. You just wanted to talk trash online and now you want to portray yourself as an intellectual.  

Too late. You've already exposed yourself to being an immature troglodyte. Nothing you post can change that now. If you can grow up and post something of value, then I would let you stay. Keep regurgitating the Dumbmestic line from your first post and the laughable assertion that you ever owned a Diablo and that you are in anyway wealthy  and I hope to see you banned.


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## Lurker Above (Apr 21, 2003)

i_wanna_riot69 said:


> *Hey guys I have a 1989 Nissan Cefiro, it has the same engine as a skyline (RB20E - not the RB20DE) and it's an auto. One thing I have noticed about it is that when you come off the mark the car is really gutless (I mean, it can't keep up with 1300cc cars) and then as soon as it hits about 2000 rpm the car just takes off, kind of like it has a turbo but it doesn't. Do any of you guys know what the problem be? it does this no matter what gear it's in cos when you put your foot down and it cycles through the gears, whenever it changes down it's gutless and then builds up again, it's a pain in the arse (other than that, it's a damn great car). Any 2c worth of input would be great! *


i used to have a leopard with an n/a L20E, a predecessor to your rb20e, and automatic as well. had a similar problem, i suspect the small displacement makes poor low end torque, and a/t's really need decent torque for zoom. once i got it in higher rpm's the torque picked up and it was a blast to cruise around in (no boy racer stuff with that setup though). just adding a turbo and dropping about 100 kg with my similar r30 skyline made a big difference in low end punch, i could finally spin the wheels  

Lurker Above, '84 gt-ex passage turbo 5m/t...i miss that sob


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## Lurker Above (Apr 21, 2003)

scourge said:


> *Then you should not have spewed so much sh|t from your mouth looking to troll. Seven posts and you haven't once posted anything of consequence. You just wanted to talk trash online and now you want to portray yourself as an intellectual. *


you're feeding the troll, scourge  

btw your stats say you're in oki...chagan-ju?  have you taken a trip out to henza yet? i had fun there with my r30 skyline, i was like the only y-plate there. i did one solo, and got the hail out of there before they found out what a pos my ride was compared to their tricked out late models...it was fun  

Lurker Above


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

I'm in the Okinawa Prefecture, but my actual island is 270 miles away. I'm next to Taiwan in the Yaeyama Island chain. Its still part of Japan......I think.


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## TcobrA (Mar 4, 2003)

scourge said:


> *Then you should not have spewed so much sh|t from your mouth looking to troll. Seven posts and you haven't once posted anything of consequence. You just wanted to talk trash online and now you want to portray yourself as an intellectual.
> 
> Too late. You've already exposed yourself to being an immature troglodyte. Nothing you post can change that now. If you can grow up and post something of value, then I would let you stay. Keep regurgitating the Dumbmestic line from your first post and the laughable assertion that you ever owned a Diablo and that you are in anyway wealthy  and I hope to see you banned. *


Posso essere un troll ma il mio honor della famiglia è stato insultato. Ciò non è buona. Ciò è un errore per insultare un honor Siciliano. 

What is it that you would like me to post you uomo guasto? I bring facts and you sip some moonshine and you colloquio come un asino della presa.

Hey. Question. If you divorce your wife down there are you still brother and sister?

Questa tribuna è in modo da in pieno dei idiots che bassi della fronte elemosino per essere vietato. Vietilo per favore! 

Va la scopata voi stessi e muore una morte misera. 

Arrivederci voi ragazzo bastardo del sesso della capra e della madre della montagna. Spero un giorno i vostri arresti del padre che li scopo nel vostro anus. Mangi i miei testicoli fittizi. 

In short, the inbreeding you people practice has weakened you. How many teeth ya gut thar Cooter? Three?

Vada al diavolo. Arrivederci. 

....L'OH ed io guarderebbero per Sicilians sconosciuto dalla Nuova Jersey se fossi voi. Fittizio. Vaffunculo.


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Ban him. End of story.


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## TcobrA (Mar 4, 2003)

scourge said:


> *Ban him. End of story. *


He's a witch! He's a witch. Burn him.

Scourge, did your parents have ANY children that lived?

Ooop! Better waaaach out. Ol' Cooter's a gonna git his shootin' iron. 

Oh, and you really ought to clean that hood of yours before your next clan meeting. You foolish little man........... God forbid another opinion should be posted...........

By the way, did you get the panties and bra that comes standard driving wear with all Nissans??? 

Hey stupid, do you know what Datsun became Nissan? Because Datsun mad some real RUST BUCKETS and the company wanted to unload that reputation. At least GM, Ford, and Chrysler has the balls to stay GM, Ford, and Chrysler.

Better ban me. I'm a troll.

But SOMEBODY here must have a greater than room temperature IQ. Besides me, I mean.

I will state that visitors from here are always welcome AND ARE TREATED A WHOLE lot better on the other forums I frequent.

This one apparently is for ricers with bad attitudes that think a vehicle with an engine of coca-cola bottle displacement is DA ROX. It isn't.

Go and sit in your own little masturbatorium, wallow in your ignorance, and race your Skyline.

Bye, y'all.

He's a witch! He's a witch. Burn him.


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Correction. Ban him and delete his posts. He had a chance to be a part of this board but failed. Instead of posting something of value, all he has done is post lies and juvenile inflametory replies. Sayonara.


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## gtr33 (Apr 15, 2003)

TCobra, i dun wish to get involved, but i think the sweeping statements u passed on all nissans was unwarranted. 
if u have such a high iq, i would think u'd post something more direct, as such, u probably have offended everyone on this forum, seeing as this is a NISSAN forum.
as for cubic inches, i would beg to differ. wouldn't a rotary beat ur V8 stuff in a straight line? u really have to get it out of ur head that to get power, you do not need to have an overkill of an engine that wastes petrol.
i'm sure the pedigree of ford and gm is just as good, but u really shouldn't discount the Japanese cars.
have a read on why the Skyline is an import in Australia and you'll see why the V8s are really just a mouse trying to scare a lion here.
in my experience here in Australia, i have yet to meet a V8 which poses a challenge to my 2.6 litres. i do not try to race everybody i see, unlike the V8 drivers here who think they have something to prove, only to be blown away by my car when i just want to move away from an irritant, much like u would swat a fly that keeps coming back.
there are Skylines which produce massive horsepower but are still docile enough to be driven around town. do a check on Trust GTR (1000hp), Apex'i GTR (also 1000hp) and Veilside GTR (1400hp). these are just but a few examples, there are many more privately owned ones. now u show me a V8 which has that kind of power displacement and can be driven in peak hour.
now i'm not saying that the V8s are all bad, it's just people like you who go around dissing everyone who does not own one that give them a bad reputation.


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

gtr33, I do agree with you but I think you are just wasting your time. If this poster were genuinely interested in an honest discourse, then he would have introduced himself and then stated his opinions and reasons for them instead of trolling, lying about being wealthy, and then throwing a childish (is there any other kind?) temper-tantrum. 

Obviously, he just wanted to talk smack on a Nissan board to see what he could start. Thats why I wanted o see him banned - not because I disagree with his posts but rather because he presents nothing new in the tired old trolling manner.

I love the new Mustang and consider myself a general car lover. However, there are American Dumbmestic car people who only consider American cars, hate anything fer'eign, intentionally maintain a level of ignorance about reality and have no desire to become educated, and are generally just plain @ssholes. Domostic people are not the same as Dumbmestic people, but it seems more often than not that its these loud mouhted Dumbmestic people vomiting tripe about things they have no knowledge about. Obviously, that is what has happened here.


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## Lurker Above (Apr 21, 2003)

scourge said:


> *I'm in the Okinawa Prefecture, but my actual island is 270 miles away. I'm next to Taiwan in the Yaeyama Island chain. Its still part of Japan......I think. *


oh wow...toii-sa! mind if i pm you?

Lurker Above


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## Lurker Above (Apr 21, 2003)

*Mustang Cobra - Skyline comparo*

the mustang cobra motor has less than 300 cubic inches, one of the smallest ever in displacement. despite the benefits of more cubic inches in an n/a car, this is not the trend with the cobra

the skyline came out in 1957 (prince), the mustang in 1964.5

it took the skyline only twelve years to come out with a dohc 4-valve engine. it took the mustang 30, despite it being younger by eight years (and only the cobra at that time)

the skyline also got independent rear suspension about the same time, 1969-ish. the 'stang again took 30 years to replace the live axle with an independent setup, again cobra only for a while

so let's look at their evolutionary trends...the mustang starts with a modest v-8, which grows bigger and bigger (and heavier and heavier) until the oil crisis turns it into a pinto-based pos until the mid-1990's. the skyline started around the same time as the thunderbird with a puny engine, which also grew in size over the years with much more modest weight gain but a whole hellacious amount of power gain...and it has cobra-level power with an engine roughly half the size of the cobra's but smooth-like-buttah

or, to use another analogy...the cobra is a 38 year old who just got his mba a few years ago and is proud of his six-figure income, while the skyline gt-r is a 46 year old with a phd who decided to take a sabbatical on his yacht in the aegean and let his accountants pay for it all  

Lurker Above, he'll be back playing in the nba for kicks or sumpin'


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Lurker Above said:


> *oh wow...toii-sa! mind if i pm you?
> 
> Lurker Above *


Sure, go ahead. But, I must say now that if its about parts the answer is no. 1. my island is small and availability is quite limited and 2. shipping will so expensive for you that it will be cost prohibitive. I don't have an APO so I can't use cheap military mailings.


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## Guest (May 28, 2003)

you guys are about as classy as New Jersey f-body owners....asshole, i take offence to that, i'm from new jersey, i own a 93 z28, with goodies you probably haven't even heard about, tell me something, whats my tailpipe look like from back there, i hold grudges, when i get home, i'm gonna find you, and you lil cute mustangs, then i'm gonna whoop that ass....


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## Shanker (Feb 1, 2003)

> the cobra is a 38 year old


 Wrong it's 10 years old. A stock Mustang GT is faster than almost every import performance car out there and nearly all in it's price range. stock\mod is irrelevant because victory goes to the guy who spends the most even though it's always cheaper for a domestic.

I know a guy with an '01 Cobra that runs with Z06's on road courses who's only mods is brake pads. How many imports in that price range can do that? Not too many. What does a base Skyline cost anyway? BTW I dont hate imports the the Mustang deserves more respect than some people like to give it.


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Base Skyline? Depends on the year. But, they were in the same range (if not cheaper) than some Camaros and Mustangs. As for GTRs, you can 500hp R32 GTRs in Japan for under $12,000USD.

I cannot belive this thread made a comeback. Let it die the death it was always intended to have.


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## Lurker Above (Apr 21, 2003)

Shanker said:


> *Wrong it's 10 years old.*


sorry, _mustang_ cobra. i forgot there was another cobra back then that would lead to confusion. i was referring to the fact that the current ford mustang cobra is basically a ford mustang, a 38 year old badge, upgraded with an independent rear and dohc. of course neither the r34 skyline nor the current mustang have anything to do with their first ancestors other than the badge. my bad for being unclear


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## Shanker (Feb 1, 2003)

Oh, I almost forgot, the modular 4.6L that comes in the GT is only eight years old. It's a 281ci motor as opposed to the 302ci from before. It's more efficient though. The GT get s 2 valve and the Cobra get a 4 valve.


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