# 2009 Rogue CVT vs TCM



## Aljoe13 (Aug 18, 2015)

Sorry if this has been posted already, I'm new to this and crunched for time. I've had my 2009 Rogue for 13 months (136,000km) and 3 months ago it started losing power on acceleration, chugging/slipping during highway driving and it's progressively gotten worse and the SES light finally came on. Yesterday it took me 10 mins just to go over 20km/hr. 
Took to a Nissan dealer for a diagnosis and they said the TCM needs changed for $1500. But also mentioned I'm covered under an extended warranty for the CVT and if the TCM doesn't fix the issue, they will replace the CVT, but won't attempt to fix that first. Seems ridiculous to me to spend $1500 that may or may not fix an issue and THEN try the warranty route. The code coming up with the SES is P1778 - step motor function. Anyone have any advice? Can I go to another dealer and ask if they will replace the CVT first?
I should add that I'm a new mom on marernity leave and money is tight - I was really hoping this was a warranty fix.


----------



## Aljoe13 (Aug 18, 2015)

I should add, I didn't ignore the issue for 3 months. My dad is a mechanic and tried other fixes, sensors, etc and it didn't fix it. I'm well versed in cars/mechanics and I feel like they are just giving me a run for their money.


----------



## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Does your extended warranty cover the TCM? I would think it should. Go to other Nissan dealers to get opinions.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

SES Light, Code P1778, CVT Replaced - Nissan Cube Life - Nissan Cube Car Forums

and from engine codes.com
P1778 Nissan Description
The step motor's 4 aspects of ON/OFF change according to the signal from Transmission Control Module (TCM). As a result, the flow of line pressure to primary pulley is changed and pulley ratio is controlled. This diagnosis item detects when electrical system is OK, but mechanical system is NG. This diagnosis item detects when the state of the changing the speed mechanism in unit does not operate normally.

Nissan Altima 2007-2012 Service Manual: P1778 step motor - function - Component diagnosis - Transaxle & transmission cvt: RE0F09B

I am curious did they test the tcm? Or do they just want to make sure they have 1500 coming in, in addition to what they will get for replacing the cvt from Nissan. Sounds too much like a fishing expedition on their part. What kind of condition is your cvt fluid? Also, according to my reading of the phrase ''This diagnosis item detects when electrical system is OK, but mechanical system is NG'', makes me question why they are jumping to change the TCM. And out curiousity which is more likely defective, the cvt with a history of problems due to which Nissan had to extend the warranty or the TCM for which no such provisions were required.
also from the Nissan website--
have heard there is a service campaign on the Rogue for transmission (CVT) noise. Is this different from the CVT Customer Satisfaction Program? A. Yes. The Rogue Transmission Noise Voluntary Service Campaign is separate from the CVT Customer Satisfaction Program.

Nissan is conducting a service campaign on 2008, 2009, and early 2010 Rogues to reprogram the Transmission Control Module and Engine Control Module software to reduce a subtle rattling noise that may come from the transmission at low speeds. The noise does not affect the performance or safety of the vehicle. Q20.I own a different Nissan model with a CVT. Do I need to take my vehicle to the dealer? A. The Rogue Transmission Noise Service Campaign only applies to 2008, 2009, and early 2010 Rogues. Other models with the CVT are not included in this service campaign. Q21.I own a Rogue but have not been contacted to take my vehicle in for reprogramming. What should I do? A. All 2008, 2009, and early 2010 Rogues are involved in the campaign. 

Affected owners began receiving letters regarding this service campaign in mid-December. If you own a 2010 Rogue and do not receive a letter by the end of February, 2010, your vehicle probably is not involved in this service campaign. However, if you wish to confirm if your vehicle is involved after the end of February, you are welcome to call Nissan Consumer Affairs at 1-800-NISSAN-1 (1-800-647-7261).
Curious if yours was reprogrammed and when. Stick to your guns and stay on them. I hope you get a new transmission. And frankly, its stories like this that keep me from trading in my X trail, and make me happy to spend to maintain it. In my book the cvt risks and problems are simply too great for the really minimal gas mileage savings it provides. In my books the Rogue is not as good a vehicle. I saw a top of line 2008 on Kijiji for less than $2,000? Why? Blown CVT and past the extended warranty mileage provisions. Complete shame a 2008 with 30.000 kms per year of mainly highway driving, with an engine that doesn't burn a drop of oil, is basically unsellable...


----------



## Aljoe13 (Aug 18, 2015)

Thank you Quadraria10 for all of that! I've been trying to research as much as I can and I totally agree with everything you said. It's no skin off their backs to replace my transmission and if that solves the problem they have a happy customer and a fixed car (and money from Nissan for a warranty fix) I'm going to ask them about the TCM test, CVT fluid and warranty when they call me back. I spoke with the service manager this morning to ask on the status (they said they are "double checking" if the TCM is covered or not) and he's calling me back. Since then I drove 40 mins to the grocery store and back and it almost died on the way home. Revving, chugging, losing speed up hills and RPMS going nuts. It's no longer save to drive with my baby in the back so they need to get me an answer asap. 
Thankfully I don't live on a busy road, I also couldn't back up my driveway, NO power in reverse. I had to do a u turn and pull up.


----------



## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

If I'm not mistaken, the TCM is internal of the CVT. The extended CVT warranty, which includes 2003-2010 models with CVTs, covers not only CVT replacement, but also repairs to the CVT, for 120,000 miles or 10-years, whichever comes first. I would contact the Nissan customer hotline to see what they have to say; their number is 1-800-NISSAN-1. Details of the extended warranty can be found here:

NissanAssist.com


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Aljoe13
Saw this you may find educational 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOFGZKwuWfM

Its interesting to note that the stepper motor is the major cause CVT problems, and how it works. Based upon a Murano diagram, smj is mistaken and the TCM is located near the ecu in lower passenger side dash to the right. However its interesting to note that each one has to be specifically calibrated for that transmission and just replacing it with new one will automatically cause an incompatibility code to come up. Reprogramming will be required. 

Call Nissan and get a file going. Try another dealer. Threaten to start Facebooking about how ''Nissan almost killed my baby'', and maybe hold the baby in your arms as you impress upon the service advisor that they have a known defect that has required Nissan to extend their warranty, that said defect is affecting your Rogue and that it requires repair. Moreover, insisting that you change TCM before they replace the cvt, when it appears that they would have to change it or replace/reprogram it later as part of the transmission replacement, seems like extortion to me. Why would anyone pay for this, with the understanding that if it doesn't solve the problem, the cvt will require actual repair or replacement, and that the tcm will still require replacement or reprogramming. 
I hope a little good luck comes your way. Keep us posted.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Last thought, I just read the warranty extension and it covers repairs and replacement of the CVT. I fail to see how the TCM is not considered a key component of the transmission. In my books even if it goes bad it should be covered as the transmission cannot function without its so called brains.


----------



## Aljoe13 (Aug 18, 2015)

Quadraria10 - you're bang on! I did know the TCM is under the dash which is why I'm just assuming they're going to try and tell me it's not covered. But I understand that it's the main brain function of the CVT so it should be considered a repair. They even explained it to me as the "motherboard" of the transmission but unfortunately not located inside the transmission - which eluded to the fact that they know it's not going to be covered. I knew there would have to be reprogramming after it was fixed - which is the main reason why my dad can't fix it. He doesn't have the means to do the reprogramming in his small business. 
I put a call into the dealer yesterday again and have yet to hear back. They still haven't given me the definite "no" that my repairs aren't covered but it seems to be taking a really long time. My car is pretty much unsafe to drive as far as I'm concerned. As soon as I have a chance today I'm going to call Nissan head office and ask for an answer. If I had a dealer closer to where I live I would go that route and I will if have to. The one I'm going to is 40 mins away and the next one would be 1.5 hours. Getting there would be half the battle!
Thanks for the laugh about Nissan almost killing my baby! It's going to come to that if they don't pick up the phone and call me soon!


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Glad you got to laugh, but it wasn't really a joke. I experienced something similar with a brand new 2002 altima, that unbeknownst to me was leaking transmission fluid on my first weekend with it. I tried to get on a highway and completely lost all acceleration with a truck bearing down on me. I almost got totaled. Nissan's attitude was all new cars have minor problems and don't worry we will fix it. Glad they did, but their attitude was pretty cavalier for a situation that could have seen me killed. Turned out the drain plug was missing washer and improperly screwed in.
My advice to you is remember that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you have to, phone them on the hour until you get satisfaction, and do not let them bamboozle you. I have experienced service advisors spewing total bs and basically lying to customers. Send registered letters as well. Shame you are not somewhere with numerous dealerships.


----------



## Aljoe13 (Aug 18, 2015)

FINALLY heard back from Nissan (after 6 calls today). The TCM is covered under warranty!!! Hallelujah!! Hopefully the fix is fairly stress free and I'll ask more questions about the programming, and CVT, etc when they call back tomorrow to book a time. They called me after hours and left a message. I think I may have scared them.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

That is good news Aljoe13. Congrats on sticking to your guns. Now I am curious, as to how many tcm's really go bad. I can see how the stepper motor can fail, but I have never heard of serious cvt problems being resolved with such a fix. What makes me also curious, is that I believe the service manager knew better, and yet was trying to get you to pay 1500 before , and even then was stating that if that fix did not work they would change the transmission. My questions is what are the odds that this will not work and they will need to change the cvt because of a broken stepper motor. I think this is the likely scenario. So, I think you should grill Nissan a little more, and because of this likelihood and the distance of the dealer from you, I think the dealer should have a replacement cvt on hand to minimize the replacement time, and whatever warranty approval paperwork required. Emphasize that you and your baby will not be guinea pigs in an experiment, as they know perfectly well this is a safety issue and that if your cvt is problematic it will happen again in short order while you are driving.
Also you might call the dealer who is further away, and get their take as to what they would do. Ideally though, Nissan will step up to the bat and authorize a cvt replacement, which will come with a new TCM in any case. Really hope this works out for you.


----------



## jamiejess1 (Aug 29, 2014)

I went through the same thing with my 2010 Rogue. I was still under the 120k extended warranty for the transmission, & although they were originally trying to charge me the $1500 as well, I raised hell with corporate & they were going to replace it under my warranty, although the part (a temperature regulator for the transmission fluid) was backordered 3 months. I had already been dealing with the problem for months....so I ended up going to a different dealership & trading my Rogue in for a new Jeep Patriot. 

If you are still under warranty for your CVT, I would raise hell with corporate. My dealership tried to charge me...I went over their heads, & corporate ok'd the repair, free of charge. I personally couldn't wait the 3 months..but in my opinion, it should be covered regardless, as it's a problem with THEIR transmissions overheating because the fluid gets too hot, & forces it into safemode.


----------



## jamiejess1 (Aug 29, 2014)

Lol....just saw your reply & that they are going to cover it. Awesome


----------

