# Disappearing oil?



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Every 2 weeks , pretty much like clockwork , I lose 2 quarts of oil. Boosting hard , not boosting hard , doesn't seem to matter. It's not going out the tailpipe , I barely run rich let alone have any oil smoke , I've watched. And the several track vids I have confirm that I only ran a tiny bit rich , no gray oil smoke at any time. No oil spots in the driveway or anywhere , either. So where the heck is it going? Anybody else have this problem?


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## _-El Traino-_ (May 28, 2004)

My old retta burned oil, and there was no smoke coming out the tails, and it didnt have a cat either.


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## Silva300zx (Jan 29, 2004)

the oil might be leaking due to a bad head gasket,do u have a lot of oil covering ur spark plugs?


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Silva300zx said:


> the oil might be leaking due to a bad head gasket,do u have a lot of oil covering ur spark plugs?


None at all , really. Just a very small amount , about what I'd expect from an older engine. Certainly not enough to account for 2 quarts every couple weeks. And besides , I'd see that amount of drip loss in the driveway. But it doesn't leak at all.


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

Do a compression test. You might have a very small leak?


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Probably that damn oil eating monster again- I have proof that he exists!!!! HE REALLY DOES DUDE!!!! I HAVE PROOF!!!


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## Evi|Chicken (Jun 14, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> None at all , really. Just a very small amount , about what I'd expect from an older engine. Certainly not enough to account for 2 quarts every couple weeks. And besides , I'd see that amount of drip loss in the driveway. But it doesn't leak at all.


  


get the Z up on ramps and check the crossmembers for the oil and grime...

if that dont work, call an exorcist :cheers:


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> Probably that damn oil eating monster again- I have proof that he exists!!!! HE REALLY DOES DUDE!!!! I HAVE PROOF!!!


Dude my Jetta went to Atlanta yesterday with the oil topped off. I go to autocross today and in the middle of my second run the oil warning starts screaming! So I finish the run since I was on the last section and I check the oil and I was barely on the dipstick. I was so embarrased I had to have my friend run me to Walmart so I could buy oil to fill it back up before I could finish my last four competition runs. I felt like a nub.

Funny thing no leak and it doesn't burn oil.


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## icice9 (Dec 18, 2003)

might want to change your valve seals.. when they go bad your gonna burn oil but it wont be a lot where your gonna be getting black smoke from your tail pipe...


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

icice9 said:


> might want to change your valve seals.. when they go bad your gonna burn oil but it wont be a lot where your gonna be getting black smoke from your tail pipe...


 No , but you will get some gray smoke.  Even just one or 2 bad valve stem seals will pull enough oil into the intake to make it smoke quite badly as soon as you step off a stoplight. I'm thinking I may have some bad turbo seals. Only way to really test that theory is to swap out the old T3 and put on another. But if I'm gonna do that I may as well upgrade. I'll just live with it for a while I guess , it's not bad.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

*[email protected]*, what oil do you use?

Don't forget that Mobil 1 is formulated on the thin side for each weight ... and WILL thin out with hard use.

I think the turbo seals are a good guess. 2nd would be rings. I've seen Preludes drink more than a quart in 1,000 miles with absolutely no visible smoke and it's common knowledge it's their rings in certain year vehicles which are the problem.

You might try a different brand oil, something a little thicker, and/or one of the better "high-mileage" oils like Pennzoil, Havoline and Castrol which use an ester to condition seals and reduce consumption that way. 

I've seen wide variances in consumptions with different brands and it doesn't seem to follow any rhyme or reason. You have to be willing to experiment some.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Bror Jace said:


> *[email protected]*, what oil do you use?
> 
> Don't forget that Mobil 1 is formulated on the thin side for each weight ... and WILL thin out with hard use.
> 
> ...


Castrol GTX 15W40 to answer your question. 10W40 used to disappear at a somewhat fast rate , and forget about 10W30 , I wouldn't do that to a turbo car. I'm not really prepared to sacrifice the seals to 20W50 thickness yet , oil pressure already hits about 90 psi at 6000 rpm.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

_... Castrol GTX 15W40 ..._

That's an odd bird. I know Castrol makes a fleet 15W40 ... but is it called "GTX"? 

Anyway, I think you're on the right track. I'm a really big fan of the gas/diesel fleet oils for high-performance engines. They have better detergent/dispersant, anti-wear and anti-foaming additive packages. A HDEO (heavy duty engine oil) 15W40 is light-years ahead of a conventional 10W40 PCMO (passenger car motor oil).

My pick among the off-the-shelf fleet oils is Pennzoil Long Life. They use a Group II+ oil and an stout (~200PPM of molybdenum) anti-wear package. It stands out even among the other 15W40s available. It even comes in a 10W30 version which can be purchased through authentic distributors (not WalMart).

I wouldn't go to a 20W50 either. Most are not state-of-the-art formulations and won't give you better results ... and can actually build more heat in a motor as they create more drag.  

Given your solid oil pressure, I think your oil weight is fine. My guess at this point is the rings. Which means you should watch everything (as I'm sure you are) but repairing it is cost prohibitive.

Probably best to wait until you have a more serious reason to rip into your motor. 

The only thing I *might* try is "Auto-Rx" which is an ester-based cleaner unlike the cheap petroleum solvent flushes which I avoid like the plague. This stuff may be able to free-up your ring pack in case they are merely _stuck_ instead of actually worn. Works on Saturns which have an oil consumption problem due to ring sticking.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Bror Jace said:


> _... Castrol GTX 15W40 ..._
> 
> That's an odd bird. I know Castrol makes a fleet 15W40 ... but is it called "GTX"?
> 
> ...



Hmm maybe it wasn't "GTX" , who knows. I had my oil changed at Pep boys , when they had the $11 special going on , and that was the weight I requested. In any case , most of that oil has gone by now , I'm sure. Kinda funny that you mentioned "fleet" oils , I am now using Rotella-T 15W40. A lot of the heavy duty diesel guys I know use it , and it's cheap too. And for now , til I can afford to rip the engine apart and upgrade it , that's pretty much what it's going to run on for a while. Not a big fan of Penzoil since I've seen some Blackstone lab reports stating that Penzoil leaves heavy parafin deposits , which causes excessive wear. Parafin , isn't that like a wax? I've also seen a motor which used exclusively Penzoil during it's somewhat short life and it was choked with ash and soot deposits.   So no Penzoil for me. I'll either use Royal Purple or Mobil 1 later on when the motor is redone. Redline? Is that any good? Anyway , thanks for the other suggetions. :cheers:


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

_"Not a big fan of Pennzoil since I've seen some Blackstone lab reports stating that Pennzoil leaves heavy parafin deposits , which causes excessive wear. Parafin, isn't that like a wax? I've also seen a motor which used exclusively Pennzoil during it's somewhat short life and it was choked with ash and soot deposits. So no Pennzoil for me."_

This is a myth I run into all the time. The better oils use "paraffinic" stocks which is not at all the same as parrafin wax. With modern oils which have to pass the API's SL tests, no wax-laden base stocks would work. They wouldn't pass the low temp pour point parameters alone.

Pennzoil uses a highly refined Group II+ which is better than standard Group I, better than the improved Group II which many others currently use (including Castrol). If you are at a Group III oil, many manufacturers (Castrol, Pennzoil, QS, Valvoline, etc ...) call this "synthetic" because it acts a lot like a Group IV PAO. The only oils better at resisting higher heat than these are Group V esters (Red Line, NEO, Motul, etc ...)

Some of the Pennsylvania crude stocks USED TO HAVE wax in them ... many decades ago, and as long as engines were very low stress, the waxes were a good wear preventative. But very little Pennsylvania crude is left and processing is so much better/cheaper now that all sorts of feedstocks can be converted to high quality base oils.

All the blackstone results I've seen for this stuff look pretty imressive. I can't comment on your buddy's motor, but Pennzoil's current chemistry was NOT at fault. A leaky head gasket will make a mess of the insides of a motor in a hurry, and I'd expect it was something like that.

You can waste years of your life looking at all the UOAs of oils at this site:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

Chevron Supreme and Delo400 also have an equivalent Group II+ base oil ... but not as much moly/boron.

_"I'll either use Royal Purple or Mobil 1 later on when the motor is redone. Red Line? Is that any good? _

Mobil 1 is the most stable of the three. Red Line has more potential if you are racing your car or are running outrageous oil temps which will cook lesser oils but I'm convinced that its chemistry is not as well suited for street applications. But yes, it is good stuff.

Royal Urple isn't great unless you use the racing grades ... which are even more expensive than Red Line which is spendy enough! 

I'm using a Schaeffer synthetic blend right now (real PAO blend with a killer additive package) and recommend the stuff to most others, but it's a pain to get for most people.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Mobil 1 , however , is no longer a full synthetic , isn't that correct? 

If and when I do upgrade the internals , I want a bullet proof full synethetic oil good enough for some street/strip useage. Of course I'd do a full change out for a full track day , but I don't think 13 seconds out of every hour on drag race day would require any majorly expensive oil , especially not for the comparatively low Hp numbers I'm running.  Not nearly as much as say , the Supra guys. Or the 10 second DSMs. 

As far as the ash and soot deposits in that engine I was talking about , that was about 10-12 years ago , so back then they may still have been using the older stock you were talking about.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

*[email protected]*: _Mobil 1, however , is no longer a full synthetic , isn't that correct?"_ 

Another easily believeable rumor that isn't true. Mobil is still using PAO in Mobil 1 even though if they switched to a Group III like most others, they'd make more money. Group III synthetics from Castrol, QS, Pennzoil, Chevron/Havoline, Valvoline and others simply aren't wirth $4+ per quart ... not when you can get a Group II+ base oil for $1.00-$1.75.

PAO oils cost twice as much to produce as Group III mineral stocks.

Some Amsoil dealers/users were actively promoting this rumor ... and guess what? The lowest grades of Amsoil have now switched over to Group III. 

_"If and when I do upgrade the internals , I want a bullet proof full synethetic oil good enough for some street/strip useage. Of course I'd do a full change out for a full track day , but I don't think 13 seconds out of every hour on drag race day would require any majorly expensive oil, especially not for the comparatively low Hp numbers I'm running. Not nearly as much as say, the Supra guys. Or the 10 second DSMs." _

I really love the Schaeffer oils. They make a pure synthetic (PAO) but their blends are just as good at preventing wear and cost only $3 per quart including shipping if you buy $250 in case lots. Really stable stuff that shows very little wear through UOA and leaves the internals very clean ...

They make a helluva 15W40, too.  

If you are bent on a full synthetic you might be able to find locally, take your pick among Amsoil & Mobil 1 (all PAO) or Red Line & Motul (all/mostly ester). 

_"As far as the ash and soot deposits in that engine I was talking about , that was about 10-12 years ago , so back then they may still have been using the older stock you were talking about."_

Maybe. They switched to a Group II+ oil several years ago. If you see "PureBase" on the bottle, it's Group II+ oil. Also, look for the "Isosyn" symbol to indicate Group II+ on Chevron bottles.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

Looks like I might have spoken too soon about Pennzoil Long Life. They are changing the formula ... and not for the better, it seems. 

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000248


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