# how much do lightweight wheels help??



## bling (Jan 9, 2005)

I am mostly into drag racing and improving my 1/4 mile times. I was looking into purchasing some lightweight wheels, (15" koing heliums) how much do they help acceleration and how much do they improve 1/4 mile times?? Are they really worth buying?


----------



## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

bling said:


> I am mostly into drag racing and improving my 1/4 mile times. I was looking into purchasing some lightweight wheels, (15" koing heliums) how much do they help acceleration and how much do they improve 1/4 mile times?? Are they really worth buying?


They help alot in MANY areas. Gearing, acceleration, handeling (less unpsrung weight), braking, the list goes on. 15" wheels will be good for 1/4 times mainly because you can run a wider tire than stock which will help 60' times, however they only drastically 1/4 times when compared to 17" or larger wheels. I think they are worth it for many reasons and I think those are nice wheels for the $.


----------



## nismoweapon (Jul 18, 2002)

Every pound of rotating mass you remove is equivelant to removing 5 times that much from the chassis. So if you save 10 pounds by removing your rear seat cushion, you'd only have to remove 2 lbs from the wheels. You tell me if that's a big difference.

I have Team Dynamics 15x7 Pro Race 1 wheels on my BMW 325i. They weigh in around 13 lbs and are super strong. Even driving on the street I'm yet to damage one.


----------



## MagicPie (Jun 23, 2004)

Light weight wheels will be helpful but more importantly is the size the distance from the center of the wheel to the outside plays a more important part even if say a 15" and 17" wheel weight the same or even if the 17" weights less
the 15" will be more easier to spin try the smallest wheel you will except--- take a 2 foot pole with a small wieght on each end and try spinning it with your hand then do the same weight but with a 4 foot pole you'll see what i mean


----------



## ac_dropout (Jul 6, 2005)

If that's the case, wouldn't the smaller radius steel rims be better than the larger radius alloy rims.

The stock wheels are usually 13" or 14", whereas aftermarkets are usually 15" to 17" for b14.

That doesn't even take into account if the non-stock tires are lighter than stock tires, given that people want wider tires for a larger contact patch.

Or the issue of more friction caused by the larger contact patch which might negatively impact the ease of rolling the tire.

Anyone do performance test to compare stock tire setup with aftermarket setup? Or various other aftermarket wheels? I would be interested in the results as well, since I'm looking to do a wheel upgrade in the near future.


----------



## DanTheMan (Jan 12, 2003)

*Wheels....*

Yeah yeah, 17" wheels are soooo slow..... 
If you're counting tenths of a second.
They're great on the street though, 
Better handling than stock, huge contact patch.
How much control do you want?
I can spin 13's and 15's all day, so what?
You're not moving dude!
My 17's chirp and I'm gone...

How much more does a 17" allow weigh over a 15" steel?
The larger size also has the effect of lengthening your gears, 1st gear really needs it anyway. I have to shift into second before I can blink!!!

Anyway, it's all about the total package. Looks count too.
If I were at a strip and not on the street prolly go with 15-16" alloys too, but it's all about what you wanna do with the car.


----------



## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

if you go out to an auto-x track, you can tell the newbies apart when you see them roll up in their huge wheels. i mean, unless your brakes are big won't let you run smaller diameter wheels, why not run the smallest possible size(diameter) with the possible widest width. so far, the konigs are good bang for the buck, but i've seen a 15x7 at the performance mag, i think it's from Axis. the Konigs are only 15x6.5.


----------



## nismoweapon (Jul 18, 2002)

Kosei K1's and Team Dynamics Pro Race 1's are the 2 best 15x7 wheels for the money. They sell both in a ton of fitments and custom offsets. My 15x7 Pro Race 1's that were custom machined for the offset on my 325i were only like $130 and weigh in at 13 lbs.


----------



## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

DanTheMan said:


> Yeah yeah, 17" wheels are soooo slow.....
> If you're counting tenths of a second.
> They're great on the street though,
> Better handling than stock, huge contact patch.
> ...


You're confused about the causes of the effects you've seen.

Larger diameter wheels won't increase your contact patch most of the time. Here's why: In order to keep the tyres from scraping against the chassis/suspension of our cars, we need to outfit larger wheels with low profile tyres. A side effect of doing so is that it reduces the total outer diameter of the wheel/tyre combination: Usually to the point where it isn't that different from your stock wheels/tyres (you can check this by measuring the outer diameter of your current wheel/tyre combo against that of your stock wheel/tyre combo). This means that despite how it looks, you aren't putting more rubber to the ground at all.

So why is it that come launch time, you're spinning your set of 14's while your set of 17's feel like they're glued to the ground? Part of it could be that you're using a stickier compound on your 17's. Part of it could be that when you went up to 17's, you also increased the _width_ of the wheel (which, unlike wheel diameter, will directly affect the size of your contact patch). But the main reason for it is that the higher rotational mass of the larger wheel/tyre combo is causing keeping the wheels from accelerating as quickly as your smaller wheels/tyres. Your set of larger wheels/tyres aren't giving you more grip. They just can't "spin up" quickly enough to exceed the limit of your tyres' traction.

If you really want to increase the size of your tyres' contact patch, you should get wider wheels and tyres, not go up to larger diameter wheels.


----------



## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

azkicker0027 said:


> if you go out to an auto-x track, you can tell the newbies apart when you see them roll up in their huge wheels. i mean, unless your brakes are big won't let you run smaller diameter wheels, why not run the smallest possible size(diameter) with the possible widest width. so far, the konigs are good bang for the buck, but i've seen a 15x7 at the performance mag, i think it's from Axis. the Konigs are only 15x6.5.


Just to support your point, here's an article that briefly outlines what you lose by going to larger diameter wheels:

Plus Sizing for Dummies - from Mazda6tech.com


----------



## bling (Jan 9, 2005)

ok, so the lighter the wheels the better. But see hears the thing, I am all about getting lower 1/4 mile times, so would 205/50/15 tires be the best or something else? The wider the tire, the more it affects acceleration. rite?


----------



## wildmanee (Nov 21, 2004)

The wider the tire, the more grip you get on the surface. The bigger the wheel, the more energy it takes to move that wheel. 


Acceleration has somewhat to do with grip, but it has a lot more to do with how big your wheels are. Like Reverm said, rotational mass.


----------



## 98Midnight (Apr 23, 2004)

Plus Sizing for Dummies - from Mazda6tech.com

I read this link. It may have contained some true info but the poor grammar and spelling errors made me wonder about the author's overall intelligence.


----------



## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

Tire Calculator 
let's throw this in the mix.


----------



## bling (Jan 9, 2005)

azkicker0027 said:


> Tire Calculator
> let's throw this in the mix.


interesting, but you have to remember that the koing heliums wiegh like 10 pounds, much lighter than the stock 14" alloys.


----------



## stone (Jul 7, 2005)

ReVerm said:


> Just to support your point, here's an article that briefly outlines what you lose by going to larger diameter wheels:
> 
> Plus Sizing for Dummies - from Mazda6tech.com



Man, They are the reasons why I am keep using 14" Alloys


----------



## bling (Jan 9, 2005)

stone said:


> Man, They are the reasons why I am keep using 14" Alloys


I think you would gain more with 15" lightweight wheels. You would gain more traction, handling and they are lighter than the stock 14" alloys.


----------



## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

bling said:


> interesting, but you have to remember that the koing heliums wiegh like 10 pounds, much lighter than the stock 14" alloys.


hence, i use them on the track. and matched with the new falken azenis rt-615's. :thumbup:


----------



## bling (Jan 9, 2005)

azkicker0027 said:


> hence, i use them on the track. and matched with the new falken azenis rt-615's. :thumbup:


Do you feel a difference between using the konigs and your stock wheels?


----------



## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

i used r-compounds, victoracer v700's, on the stocks; but when i converted to ad22vf's, i had to get bigger wheels, so i searched and found the konigs.


----------



## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

stone said:


> Man, They are the reasons why I am keep using 14" Alloys


there is also a thing called matching the rim size to optimize speed.. it has been proven that the 15" rim has been the most efficient rim.. the 14" alloys weight a ton, they are mostly used my honda ricers... check out npm's 1.6T (mike youngs car) im pretty sure he did a write up on maximizing speed due to rim size.


http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/july01/axis.shtml

that should help you a lot....


----------



## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

psuLemon said:


> there is also a thing called matching the rim size to optimize speed.. it has been proven that the 15" rim has been the most efficient rim.. the 14" alloys weight a ton, they are mostly used my honda ricers...


You are comparing lightweight 15" wheels to the factory 14" wheels, right (not lightweight 15" wheels to lightweight 14" wheels)?



psuLemon said:


> check out npm's 1.6T (mike youngs car) im pretty sure he did a write up on maximizing speed due to rim size.
> 
> http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/july01/axis.shtml
> 
> that should help you a lot....


Maximizing speed due to rim size? Are you talking about top speed or acceleration?


----------



## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

kind of acceleration, handling, braking, kind of a colmanation of everything.. i am comparing the optimize 15" wheels that have been proven to be the best size for our car towards the 14" alloys that he was talkin bout.. 


his theory is small is better in this instance(or how i percieved it, sorry if i took it wrong).. so even a 14" alloy rim is better than a 15" light weight, in that theory...


----------



## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

psuLemon said:


> his theory is small is better in this instance(or how i percieved it, sorry if i took it wrong).. so even a 14" alloy rim is better than a 15" light weight, in that theory...


The Mazda6tech article does state that there are distinct advantages to having smaller diameter wheels, but it doesn't make the claim that heavy factory 14" steel wheels would be a better choice for your car than a set of 15" lightweight wheels.

What that article is saying is that a lightweight 14" wheel would have these distinct advantages over a lightweight 15" wheel.


----------



## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/may01/dyno.shtml

old but still worth looking at...

We tested 15" Volk Racing TE37's that weigh 9 lbs and a set of Enkei 18" wheels, which weigh in at 23 lbs...

Amazing what you can find in the back issues


----------



## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

myoung said:


> http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/may01/dyno.shtml
> 
> old but still worth looking at...
> 
> ...


wow, now i remember wherei got the idea from. :crazy:


----------



## bling (Jan 9, 2005)

ReVerm said:


> The Mazda6tech article does state that there are distinct advantages to having smaller diameter wheels, but it doesn't make the claim that heavy factory 14" steel wheels would be a better choice for your car than a set of 15" lightweight wheels.
> 
> What that article is saying is that a lightweight 14" wheel would have these distinct advantages over a lightweight 15" wheel.


I don't think they make lightweight 14" rims


----------



## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

bling said:


> I don't think they make lightweight 14" rims


They do. You just don't see them very often in the US because the tuning culture is "big brakes, big rims, thin tyres" and the wheel manufacturers are marketing their products accordingly. If you leave the country they have lots of lightweight 13" and 14" wheels out there.


----------



## wildmanee (Nov 21, 2004)

My 14's are 12.8 lbs. Unfortunately my heavy ass Traction T/A's make up for it... in terms of weight. 


Mike.. something's mixed up on that page. You show the Enkei's as having 1 more horsepower at peak, not the Volk's..


----------

