# clutch at pep boys



## Liquider (Nov 8, 2003)

i went to pep boys today, the guy walked out to my car(dissed it too) then he said all they had was the "stock" clutch for my car, so i asked if there was a performance one that i could buy....he said "there is no performance clutches, they're like brakes they are all the same...the torque comes from the transmition not your clutch"....so i didnt want to argue plus i didnt know that much so i said whatever...then we go back to the store and i see "PERFORMANCE BRAKES"....i was like "dude you just said no such things as performance brakes" he replied "yes for your car, its not a sports car"....i was kind of pissed...well since my mom was there we paid for gthe clutch anyways and now its awaiting to get my "LUK" clutch...errrm is there a performance clutch? or no? by the way paid 358.58 w/ labor.


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

Man, first of all, why did you buy a clutch from Pep Boys? Clutches offered by auto parts stores like Pep boys and Autozone are not going to last too long, especially with the way you drive. I guess my suggestions in your other thread were a waste of time after all.

As far as the Pepboys guy goes, he is kind of right. The GA16 is not exactly a performance engine. Yea, you can build them, but majority of the GA16 cars are used for just normal road use, and therefore auto parts stores carry only normal products for cars with that engine. As a matter of fact, the only performance stuff most auto parts stores carry are usually only for Hondas (no wonder why no one mentions them much on Nissan sites  )

There is one thing that the Pepboys guy made a mistake with in his statement to you. Any time your work on your engine to make more power than stock, you need a clutch that can take that extra power. Also, if you drive like crazy on an OEM clutch or auto parts store clutch setup, the clutch will slip very soon. These kind of clutches are usually not designed for abuse. 

There are performance clutches for the GA16DE. If you look at the other thread where fcsmotorsports lashed out at you, you will see that I especially recommended that you use ACT, JWT, or a Clutchmasters clutch kit. Now that you supposedly have this Pepboys clutch, don't abuse it, otherwise you'll be spending anothing few hundred bucks quite soon. 

You're beginning to make me feel like I'm hitting a wall man. Every time you ask for help and get a good recommendation, you do the damn opposite. Quit wasting our time with your questions if you're inclined to not follow our advice to begin with.


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## Liquider (Nov 8, 2003)

hjmm i see i f0ked up...darn, i was looking around all week and i couldnt find a shop with the act clutches or anything other than stock, my dad decided to do the clutch at pepboys and i gave up looking and went with him...dang how long should i let this one break in?


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

Give it 500 miles to break in, but don't expect it to last long if you intend to treat it aggressively.


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## Liquider (Nov 8, 2003)

hey i was also gonna ask you, is it possible to do the advanced timing on my car myself, im not familiar with how to do it, do you know how and at 17 i will have to use 89 right?


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## atomicbomberman (Jul 6, 2002)

500+ miles, make sure you drive nice and shift early. And after the break in period, please for god sake don't do burn out everyday, you do that you'll be finding yourself a new clutch pretty soon. Remembered what I've said on your other threads, burnout and chiping 2nd gear means nothing and you're only killing your car, learn to drive well, and your car will treat you well in return.

With a GA16DE (I assume that's what you have as about 93% of sentra comes with those), a regular clutch is really all you need, a better part would be go with a Nissan OEM clutch, you could've ordered one through the parts department from any local nissan dealership, I think they carry Nismo catalogs now too, tho I don't think Nismo makes anything for GA16...

Good luck with your new clutch.


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## Liquider (Nov 8, 2003)

god knows ive tried chirping second gear before but it never worked...i will never do a burnout again(it REALLLY is not worth it) some people have been telling me different techniques not to burn the clutch but i dont understand a few...this one in particular tell me if its right or wrong....1. When i drive I prefer to not go into neutral by shifting into but just by holding in the clutch, plus this way if something is going to happen i can let go and press gas instantly instead of shifting into the gear, some people tell me this will burn my clutch. So i went to www.howstuffworks.com and then i saw how clutches work and when you thinka bout it when i press in the clutch pedal it disengages and i shouldnt be burng nothing since the clutch is not touching anuything....right ? or am i burning it...also for smooth daily driving shifting i shift and then as legging go of the clutch i press gas a little so it doesnt jerk(this one might be bad, is it? ) thnx


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## BikerFry (Jul 31, 2003)

It looks like you're learning. :thumbup: Keep up the research and you'll be a pro in no time. Definitely give it gas as you let the clutch out. Smoothness is a good sign that you're driving well.  I've also heard that coasting with the pedal down is not good for the clutch, but that clashes with what I know about how they work also (unless there's always contact btw the plates, even when disengaged, so they're still rubbing even though they're not sticking enough to transfer power?) Can a resident expert set us straight please?



Liquider said:


> hey i was also gonna ask you, is it possible to do the advanced timing on my car myself, im not familiar with how to do it, do you know how and at 17 i will have to use 89 right?


At 17 degrees you better plan on 91 octane or better if you don't want your engine to blow up. Do a search, there's a lot of good info on how to advance timing if you just look. Check Sentra.net/Kojima's garage too.

EDIT: This link was posted in the GA16 section no more than a few hours ago
http://nituning.cjb.net/

Check the how-to section, it tells with pics how to advance timing.


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## dry (Oct 21, 2002)

man, your lucky, I paid over 500 bucks to get my clutch put int after labor and parts... hopefully yours will last over 15 miles tho ;-)


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## scrub brush (Dec 31, 2002)

The reason keeping the pedal depressed is bad has to do with the throwout bearing and the pressure plate. With the pedal depressed, the throwout bearing is riding on the diaphragm spring. After awhile, the throwout bearing starts to wear a circular groove on the spring from where it touches it. This weakens this area and could lead to pressure plate failure. I know it may sound strange, but look at old pressure plates and you can see this groove. If not, I'll see if i can find a picture for you.

Edit: BTW, my dad and I changed my clutch (and tranny), the OEM Nissan clutch kit, with disk, throwout bearing and pressure plate was only 94 bucks at the dealership. Total cost-94 dollars and a saturday.


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## 2SR20DE (May 17, 2003)

scrubnick said:


> Edit: BTW, my dad and I changed my clutch (and tranny), the OEM Nissan clutch kit, with disk, throwout bearing and pressure plate was only 94 bucks at the dealership. Total cost-94 dollars and a saturday.


That's what I told this guy to get... i see advice unheeded. I got my OEM Nissan kit for 124 and put it in while I did my engine swap. 

Pressing the clutch in while coasting or what ever isn't going to do anything. The bearing is there so that when it's in contact with the spring it will spin, not grind the pp. Only thing is you might prematurely wear your TOB. The ring develops but I would imagine this is from the initial contact with the plate.


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## Liquider (Nov 8, 2003)

so it does touch something even when you have it pressed in all the way...thats odd, im goign to start learning how to put it in neutral alot more often now, thanks for the tips guys


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## atomicbomberman (Jul 6, 2002)

That's a bad idea, you really should try to only use the clutch to change gears. Riding in neutral or riding with the clutch pedel depressed completely is not good for the car nor is it safe driving technique. Riding in neutral is unsafe because you're in effect completely disengaged from the engine, which means in an emergency, you'll brake slower due to lack of engine drag AND in those panic situtuion where you need the power, you'll just be reving the engine and going nowhere. Riding the clutch pedel down someone already covered why that is bad, the other reason is the the Clutch again, is this mechanism that "equalize" the rotational speed difference between the engine (flywheel) and the wheels (axle), when your engine is reving at 2000rpm and the wheels are at stationary, the speed difference is changed by the clutch, which "pulls" the axle up to the speed with the flywheel (with gear ratio of course, but you all know this). In effect, everytime you disengage the clutch you are creating friction (there are ways to minimize this of course, but let's not get ahead of ourselves), and friction causes heat, and burns the clutch down. Therefore, the safest, and most logical driving technique that will be the easiest on the clutch is one where you use it the least... That is to say, only change gears when you have to. If you watch professional racing drivers drive, they always drive 2 hands on the wheel and ALWAYS change gears really fast and only when needed. 

Changing your timing is really easy, just get a timing gun to check the timing, i'm sure there are ample resources online that tells you how to do it.


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## Liquider (Nov 8, 2003)

i drive with both hands on the wheel. I see so it is best to stay in gear and not have the clutch in. So if I am slowing down cause some guy cut me off or to stop for a stop sign, then use the clutch but never go in neutral right? what if im at the light and its red for awhile. Do i hold in the clutch or do i go in neutral ??


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## Liquider (Nov 8, 2003)

UPDATE: got my clutch from the pepboys dudes....first off they jacked up the speedometer, i was driving out and i was like why is it on zero...Drove back and the guy fixed it in like 10 minutes...Its weird cause this new clutch engages early and when i was pulling out of my driveway all these guys were around and i stalled the car twice cause i wasnt used to it...On the first time it was fine, but the second time they all laughed and yelled "noob" ...ahh the good ol times...thanks for the feedback guys, im gonna let this one settle in for at lesat 300 miles....the countdown begins, 280 left


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## atomicbomberman (Jul 6, 2002)

Liquider said:


> i drive with both hands on the wheel. I see so it is best to stay in gear and not have the clutch in. So if I am slowing down cause some guy cut me off or to stop for a stop sign, then use the clutch but never go in neutral right? what if im at the light and its red for awhile. Do i hold in the clutch or do i go in neutral ??


I would've thought these are no brainers, why don't u try to stay in gears while the car is stationary... let's see what happens haha...

*sigh*...

when you stall it is because the engine does not produce enough torque at that speed to move the wheels, so when you're at a stop, your wheel speed = 0, and if you're in gear and with the clutch up, you'll in effect connect the wheel speed with the engine speed, which btw in case you haven't notice yet, is NOT zero, now just think this through... Good, yes, you'll stall.

When I say keep the clutch in what I meant was basically don't coast down some street at 40mph and just go to neutral and let it glide down at that speed, it's stupid and you looses traction at the same time you looses power and braking. As for the 2 hand thing, I donno, to each his own, i prefer to drive like that because a. SE-R have crapy 5th gear and the problem can be made worse by resting your hand on the gear shift, and b. the Momo wheel I have makes steering a lot heavier due to less counterweight on the actual steering wheel, makes it more difficult to steer with one hand... I just hates those riceboy who drive like ass with their hand on top of the steering wheel and the other on the fucking shiftknob and think they're badass.


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## BikerFry (Jul 31, 2003)

atomicbomberman said:


> I would've thought these are no brainers, why don't u try to stay in gears while the car is stationary... let's see what happens haha...


Uh, you mean his leg's gonna get tired from holding the pedal down?

Basically, I'm in gear while I'm driving and in neutral when coming to a stop or sometimes when sitting at a stop, depending how lazy I am about holding down the clutch pedal. As for being able to stop faster in gear... Trying to keep the car in proper gear while in a panic stop will just take concentration away from modulating the brake pedal to the threshold of traction as well as possible. If you ever have to make a panic stop, just kick the clutch down to keep the car from stalling and focus all your attention to braking as hard as possible (keeping in mind you'll stop faster with your tires rotating than if they were locked and sliding.) And of course make sure to check your rear view to make sure you're not about to be ass ended and all that good stuff.

Atomic: be careful what you're telling this kid, or he's gonna start getting the wrong idea. Saying "use the clutch to change gears only when you have to" is going to give him the impression that it's bad to change gears. For the love of God don't use a race car driver analogy. You use the clutch to change gears when appropriate, that's what it's there for. Don't try to shift really fast, like a race car driver. Shift cleanly and deliberately. Don't do burnouts or hard launches, especially when the clutch is new. Try to stay in the appropriate gear when you're driving, but you can go into neutral when you don't need to be in gear (i.e. stopping, it's best to be in 1st at a light but we all get lazy.) Don't worry about riding with the clutch down. Certainly don't make a habit of it, but if it were a serious risk you would have gotten an overwhelming "don't do that."

As for stalling and stuff, just practice practice practice. We've all been there, you'll get it. Let the clutch out slowly, and when it starts to engage, give it some gas as you gradually let the clutch out all the way. The trick for me was to let the cluctch out slowly and not dump it when I felt it start to engage.


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## Liquider (Nov 8, 2003)

i made a habit of riding the clutch, When i was learning someone taught me this way, i never brake while in gear( this is complicated when you panic)....i always thought that if you just press the clutch in you have more time to react if something happens as opposed to putting in neutral where you have to shift...here you just let go of the clutch and floor it...by the way gonna post pics of my old clutch soon, thnx guys


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## scrub brush (Dec 31, 2002)

For the record, here's what I do. When making a normal stop and I'm in 4th or 5th, I'll downshift either to second or 3rd, it makes for a lot less braking on my part. Then, when the RPMs get to about 1000, I push in the clutch, pop the tranny into neutral and let the clutch back out. I watch the other lights to get an idea of when I'll move, and right before I get a green light, I put it in first gear. In a panic stop, just step on the brake, but don't push the clutch in, at least until you get to about 900 RPM or so, which is about 20 in 5th gear. Keeping the car in gear makes the panic stops a lot shorter!


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## Liquider (Nov 8, 2003)

i dont have an rpm meter, hmm i think i wont be able to downshift because i know i'll jack something up and have to replace my transmition...darn i dont see how it is bad if the clutch is disengaged...i mean is pressing the clutch all the way down the same as being in neutral? seems the same no?


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## BikerFry (Jul 31, 2003)

How would keeping the car in gear shorten a threshold stop? Do our brakes really suck that bad that you need engine torque to get extra force applied to the wheels? In most street situations the limiting factor in a panic stop is driver skill, and by disengaging the engine you don't have to worry about watchign the rpm and not stalling to squirt away from the second hazard, a rear end collision, and there's only one thing applying braking force so you have total control, so it's doubly easier.


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## 2SR20DE (May 17, 2003)

BikerFry said:


> How would keeping the car in gear shorten a threshold stop? Do our brakes really suck that bad that you need engine torque to get extra force applied to the wheels? In most street situations the limiting factor in a panic stop is driver skill, and by disengaging the engine you don't have to worry about watchign the rpm and not stalling to squirt away from the second hazard, a rear end collision, and there's only one thing applying braking force so you have total control, so it's doubly easier.


Well when downshifting... you are absorbing forward inertia through the drivetrain instead of through transfereing energy (heat) to the rotors. You'll notice if at 5000 rpms in any gear... if you let off the throttle the car will slow down. This is what you are doing in every gear that you downshift to. Now the combination of down shifting and braking can help you brake faster and keep control of the car... you still have the ability to manuver with power if need be and you using two souces to slow the vehicle (notice semi-trucks when they come to a stop... downshifting like mofo's) It's not hard but you do need to learn it. At the track there is a 100 to ~45 mph turn that goes uphill after the turn so I have to go from 4 to 3 while breaking and bliping the throttle then go 3-2 while still breaking, turning and bliping the throttle to rev match (rev matching is different, it's not really to slow the car in this case it's to not upset the car by pulling a higher rpm in a lower gear, you know how it jerks if you downshift with out braking and let the clutch out fast, wow long) Anyways... all this to say that it is good to know and isn't very vital on the street.


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## BikerFry (Jul 31, 2003)

Gotcha. It basically just adds additional deceleratve force when the brakes alone aren't enough to reach the tractional limits of the tires.  

Sounds like a decent practice on the street on dry pavement that I might try to adopt, but in rain or snow (when the brakes can usually easily reach tractional limits) I'll just floor the clutch pedal and focus on keeping the tires at the limit with the brake pedal.


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## 2SR20DE (May 17, 2003)

BikerFry said:


> Gotcha. It basically just adds additional deceleratve force when the brakes alone aren't enough to reach the tractional limits of the tires.
> 
> Sounds like a decent practice on the street on dry pavement that I might try to adopt, but in rain or snow (when the brakes can usually easily reach tractional limits) I'll just floor the clutch pedal and focus on keeping the tires at the limit with the brake pedal.


No it doesn't involve the traction limit of the tire... the friction is scrubbed through the drive train... so you can still use the brakes at full force...


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## 2SR20DE (May 17, 2003)

BikerFry said:


> Gotcha. It basically just adds additional deceleratve force when the brakes alone aren't enough to reach the tractional limits of the tires.
> 
> Sounds like a decent practice on the street on dry pavement that I might try to adopt, but in rain or snow (when the brakes can usually easily reach tractional limits) I'll just floor the clutch pedal and focus on keeping the tires at the limit with the brake pedal.


I don't know about that.. I Think the decelerative force is scrubbed through the drivetrain only not the tires... Atleast some of the force is scrbbed through the drive train although it does cause weight transfer to the front just like braking.


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## atomicbomberman (Jul 6, 2002)

Hmm, for your information, yes SE-R brakes sux balls, and using drivetrain to slow down will help, plus you can get on the throttle a lot quicker if you're already IN gear when you exit a corner, ever heard of left foot braking? Same principle; you can modulate the throttle and brakes a lot easier, rev-match/heel-toe you do when you do not want to upset a car's dynamic while cornering, when you're driving at the limit of traction a gear shift can throw the car's balance out of wack and screw up your traction. These are good tools to learn and I'm nowhere near good at it, but at least I try to practice as much as possible. Having a tach is good, but you can 90% of the time tell when to shift with your ears. You won't be able to rev to the limit really, but you'll do fine.


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## 2SR20DE (May 17, 2003)

atomicbomberman said:


> Hmm, for your information, yes SE-R brakes sux balls, and using drivetrain to slow down will help, plus you can get on the throttle a lot quicker if you're already IN gear when you exit a corner, ever heard of left foot braking? Same principle; you can modulate the throttle and brakes a lot easier, rev-match/heel-toe you do when you do not want to upset a car's dynamic while cornering, when you're driving at the limit of traction a gear shift can throw the car's balance out of wack and screw up your traction. These are good tools to learn and I'm nowhere near good at it, but at least I try to practice as much as possible. Having a tach is good, but you can 90% of the time tell when to shift with your ears. You won't be able to rev to the limit really, but you'll do fine.



Heel toe is a pain for me... My shoe goes from the right edge of the gas pedal (also touching the lower center console) all the way to the clutch pedal... there is not much room... but i'm getting better at it. Also our pedals are not really set up well for that... seeing as how the brake pedal is a good 2" higher than the gas pedal... that would be a project to change that...


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## 2SR20DE (May 17, 2003)

atomicbomberman said:


> Hmm, for your information, yes SE-R brakes sux balls,


I hear this all the time but I think it's really exaggerated. For street purposes I think they work really... exceedingly well. When I had Axxis Metal Masters on I would try to get brake fade on the street and it was not really easy to do... only after numerous 90 to 30 stops in a row... that's even above high performace street driving. Much better than all of the previous cars I've owned and better than many cars I've driven. I would say they are well above par for a stock car. On my 91' mustang LX one good high speed slow down and I would loose brakes... they just faded. The 89 maro... same thing... Now on the track they are going to be run through obviously but so will every stock braking system besides performance built cars... and even then companies like stoptech come in to assist. With a good set of brake pads (like when they made the Hawk Blue compound for our car) the braking system can be very adiquate... who cares if you chew rotors... they are like $20 a piece.


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