# SR20 Swap or GA16 Swap and Turbo???



## stevja1 (Jan 25, 2004)

I am starting a new job on monday that will pay twice what I make now. I will also have my car loan paid off by april. I would still like a solution that is cheaper though, but fits the situation. 

My exisiting motor has about 150 psi on all four cylinders. I think if I put a hotshot turbo on it, I would blow it up or something.

The question: Do I swap a new GA motor in and then buy a turbo; swap in an SR20 motor and then buy a turbo, or just sell my car and buy a 99 Sentra SE (are those rare and hard to find with low mileage?) I don't feel terribly confident in doing the swap myself. The most complicated thing I've done on my car is clean the throttle body, (and maybe install halo headlights... wiring those things is a pain in the butt.)

The situation: My friend is buying a new 05 Mustang GT next year. I want my car to still be able to beat his. I have about 15 months. The specs on that are:

0-60 in 5.2
1/4 mile in 13.8
curb weight at 3523lbs
300 bhp
320 lbft tq

I've searched around and it seems most people favor the turbo GA vs doing an SR swap. I also noticed that the turbo GA usually doesn't make enough power to get past 60mph in under 6.

My conclusion is that the SR20 swap would be in order, with a turbo later. What do you guys think?


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## Acceler8ter (Feb 5, 2005)

Why do the turbo on the GA? Just go get an SR20Det. Problem solved. Comes with a factory turbo. An S13 SR20Det is rated 205 horses while the S14 (Or maybe it was the S15) is rated at 215. That's stock. Upgrade to a slightly larger turbo and you'll easily pushing out over 250 horses and you haven't even gotten started on one of these things yet. You can pull over 500 horses out of these things. The downside is plan on paying at least $2,500 for an S14 ($1,000-$2,500 for an S13).

Just buy a front clip with the motor so you know how to hook everything up. If I get this '96 Sentra GXE I'm looking at that's my plan.

You'd walk all over that 'stang. You'd have almost the same amount of power in a car that weighs almost half as much. Replace some body parts with Carbon Fiber and that gap keeps growing. Better brush up on those driving skills. :thumbup:

Edit: Sorry but I just noticed you live in Orem. That's awesome. I live up in Roy. =)


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## BadBoy91 (Jan 21, 2005)

Acceler8ter said:


> Why do the turbo on the GA? Just go get an SR20Det. Problem solved. Comes with a factory turbo. An S13 SR20Det is rated 205 horses while the S14 (Or maybe it was the S15) is rated at 215. That's stock. Upgrade to a slightly larger turbo and you'll easily pushing out over 250 horses and you haven't even gotten started on one of these things yet. You can pull over 500 horses out of these things. The downside is plan on paying at least $2,500 for an S14 ($1,000-$2,500 for an S13).
> 
> Just buy a front clip with the motor so you know how to hook everything up. If I get this '96 Sentra GXE I'm looking at that's my plan.
> 
> ...


 hey i dont want to rag yall to hard but you cannot use a RWD SR20 in a FWD.
There are motors available to go in to FWD cars like the Bluebird or GTi-R motors. Dont buy a GTi-R though, USDM parts dont crossover. The reason you cant use a RWD ie S13 S14 motor is because the mounts and and distributor are located in different places than a FWD.
In response to stevja's question; sell the GXE and find a 98-99 Sentra SE. they are fairly abundant. milage doesn't matter if you swap the motor, and dont buy an Automatic cuz its pointless. You can find um all day for less than 7 g's. If you start off with a SR20 powered car the harness will line right up, makes the swap real easy, no wiring mess like witha GA16 car.
its not hard to find info on these swaps so do a little research before you do anything, OK?
later


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## BadBoy91 (Jan 21, 2005)

also one more thing, Check out www.sr20store.com, the guys name is Marco Vargas hey is real helpful and fair prices, you can find them cheaper but you get what you pay for. i ve delt with him several time and he is one of the best.


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## Acceler8ter (Feb 5, 2005)

I heard an SR20Det out of a Pulsar would drop right in. I just classified the motors as S13, 14, & 15 because it's much easier.

Or is the Pulsar RWD as well?


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

what scion did you race dude. there are 3 models. be specific.


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## Nismo1997 (Dec 26, 2003)

I got a BB, PM


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

OK this same topic has been brought up countless times and the long and short is that you have to decide yourself. IMHO this is not a decision you ask others to make for you. 

Simply make a pro/con list and figure it out. If your not sure about specifics do some research on both setups (there is plenty of source material) and then do your list. 

Also the GTI-R is AWD, it will work however you will need a FWD SR20 tranny and all of the other necessary SR20 parts to make it work. 

And when you say S13,14,15 you are naming the chassis code for different 240SX's/Silvia's and it really has nothing to do with the motor itself.


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## Acceler8ter (Feb 5, 2005)

wes said:


> And when you say S13,14,15 you are naming the chassis code for different 240SX's/Silvia's and it really has nothing to do with the motor itself.


I do know that, I was refering to which chassis the motor came out of. There are differences between all 3 motors. The S13 has a red top motor and the S14 & 15 are both black tops but put out different power levels. I do it for simplicity reasons. Every book I've read that deals with the motors also refers to it by a chassis code because of the 3 different power-rated motors.

Ive done quite a bit of research on the motors. Are you gonna try to tell me there's no difference between the years of the motors and I should just classify them all as the samething? I don't know about you but I'd rather have a classification of if a motor has several different power ratings depending on which chassis you pull it out of.


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## I'm tired of my usernamee (Feb 16, 2004)

well you did tell him to use a RWD engine in his front wheel drive car so................


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Acceler8ter said:


> I do know that, I was refering to which chassis the motor came out of. There are differences between all 3 motors. The S13 has a red top motor and the S14 & 15 are both black tops but put out different power levels. I do it for simplicity reasons. Every book I've read that deals with the motors also refers to it by a chassis code because of the 3 different power-rated motors.
> 
> Ive done quite a bit of research on the motors. Are you gonna try to tell me there's no difference between the years of the motors and I should just classify them all as the samething? I don't know about you but I'd rather have a classification of if a motor has several different power ratings depending on which chassis you pull it out of.


I understand your logic and NO I am not telling you they are all the same, believe me I know the differences. What I meant by the chassis code comment is that not all of those chassis use an SR20DE-T as in the states they came with the A24 and overseas they have NA SR20's in some of the silvia's. 

I guess it doesn;t matter though as we are talking about a FWD setup here.


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

wes said:


> I understand your logic and NO I am not telling you they are all the same, believe me I know the differences. What I meant by the chassis code comment is that not all of those chassis use an SR20DE-T as in the states they came with the A24 and overseas they have NA SR20's in some of the silvia's.
> 
> I guess it doesn;t matter though as we are talking about a FWD setup here.


Even with the HP can you really get under 5.2 0-60 with FWD ?
This is EVO and WRX type performance.
Just wondering the best a SER or Sentra has done 0-60???


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## CHRIS/SR/SE (Dec 15, 2003)

I would turbo charge the GA16DE over Buying a SR20DE car. If your GA is almost paid off you can spend that money on parts, whereas if you buy a SR powered car you have to pay it off first and then modify it. A turbo GA will beat a naturally asperated SR any day, I doesn't need much. On a side note the SR20DET swap sound like a good idea, just keep in mind that you won't be done after buying one. You still need a ECU, intercooler (or at least piping to run the stock top mound intercooler) mounts and a few other things. The GA turbo would be the cheapest.


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## stevja1 (Jan 25, 2004)

Thanks for all the replies. I honestly thought I would get flamed more than that... but you guys all gave some useful input. I appreciate it.

Intercooler piping isn't a big deal. I know how to weld, and I'm in with a local muffler shop with a bender. The thing I'm worried about in the swap is getting all the stuff I need put together, because I'll be without a car for a few weeks. I'm also a little intimidated by wiring the whole mess.

I'm just trying to put together a long term plan for the car. The one I used to have was the way it is now, but next comes the 5spd, and then the turbo, but with the compression being as it is, I don't want to go that route anymore.

Is it really difficult to get an SR20 past 300 hp? The hp/weight ratio on the mustang is 11.74. My car with 200 hp would be 13, (B14s weigh in at 2600 right?), so unless I had really light wheels and drive train, the mustang would still be faster. I figure I need at least 225whp or so to keep up. That is why I'm kind of shying away from a GA turbo setup. I realize that the project b14 was doing around 230 with the turbo cams and ECU program, but in my mind, they have basically maxed out that car, and within a few years it wont be running at that power. With an SR, I could at least upgrade the turbo after a while.

I was thinking last night, how well do SR20VEs handle boost? They get amazing HP NA, and I was thinking it wouldn't take much to get it where I want it. I'm going to research it right now....

*EDIT* K... im done researching. SR20VE doesn't look like a good option. Really expensive and unexplored territory.

Where is a good place to look for used Sentras? I've tried the newspaper classifieds, ebay, the classified on nissanforums, and a few dealers around here. Most of the Sentras are 2000+ or 96-97. I didn't know there was a 98 Sentra SE. Do all the SEs come with 5spds?

To Acceler8ter: It's nice to see other people from Utah once in a while. There aren't a lot on here. Most are either east or west coasters.

To IanH: I am also interested in the fastest SE-R times. I have a 240Zx on my wall that put out 400bhp and had a top speed of 170 mph. It had an SR20 bored to 2.1 liters with (im sure) a number of other major mods.

To chimmike: The Scion was an xB. It looked and sounded stock. A 1.6 with exhaust, advanced timing, and pulley got beat by a stock 1.5 with three people in it. That's what bugs me the most. After the race, the guy turned and laughed... burn.....


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

stevja1 said:


> Thanks for all the replies. I honestly thought I would get flamed more than that... but you guys all gave some useful input. I appreciate it.
> 
> Intercooler piping isn't a big deal. I know how to weld, and I'm in with a local muffler shop with a bender. The thing I'm worried about in the swap is getting all the stuff I need put together, because I'll be without a car for a few weeks. I'm also a little intimidated by wiring the whole mess.
> 
> ...



The SR20 can support 300WHP without any problems provided you have proper fuel. 

Not all 98's SE's are 5 speeds, some are auto's. And the 99 SE-L's are the same.


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## stevja1 (Jan 25, 2004)

By proper fuel, I assume you're talking about 92 or better octane, or something else? (100+ octane???)


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## BadBoy91 (Jan 21, 2005)

stevja1 said:


> By proper fuel, I assume you're talking about 92 or better octane, or something else? (100+ octane???)


i think by "proper Fuel" he ment fuel pump and injector size
Like i said earlier if you start with an SR car it will be cost effective and painless. I honestly think that Swaping a turbo engine is better than a turbo kit. You wouldn't have to worry about compression (8.3:1 on turbo motors, 9.5:1 USDM N/A), you dont have to worry about Fuel injectors (390ccm turbo motors), and the vehicles Factory harness lines right up in SR cars.
Also you can build power eaisly in an SR20, and cheaply. like if you were to remove the BOV intake return line (allowing the BOV to dump atmoshpereically) you can gain 15-20hp right there, FREE! not to mention it will sometimes spit a little flame when you shift. Exhaust mods are cheap too. anyway my point is that turbo motors are resposive to little things here an there. :thumbup:


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

BadBoy91 said:


> i think by "proper Fuel" he ment fuel pump and injector size
> Like i said earlier if you start with an SR car it will be cost effective and painless. I honestly think that Swaping a turbo engine is better than a turbo kit. You wouldn't have to worry about compression (8.3:1 on turbo motors, 9.5:1 USDM N/A), you dont have to worry about Fuel injectors (390ccm turbo motors), and the vehicles Factory harness lines right up in SR cars.
> Also you can build power eaisly in an SR20, and cheaply. like if you were to remove the BOV intake return line (allowing the BOV to dump atmoshpereically) you can gain 15-20hp right there, FREE! not to mention it will sometimes spit a little flame when you shift. Exhaust mods are cheap too. anyway my point is that turbo motors are resposive to little things here an there. :thumbup:


Mostly good advice. However the NAsr20 can support Big HP regardless of compression, over 400WHP on the stock bottom end. Also they have 370cc injectors while the pulsar GTi-R motors have 440cc injectors. 

Lastly you WILL NOT gain 20 HP by removing the recirc pipe. You will gain the fast and the furious sound so many people seem to pay too much attention too.

And yes I meant FUEL DELIVERY... As in injectors, pump, rail, and FPR.


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## stevja1 (Jan 25, 2004)

wes said:


> Mostly good advice. However the NAsr20 can support Big HP regardless of compression, over 400WHP on the stock bottom end. Also they have 370cc injectors while the pulsar GTi-R motors have 440cc injectors.
> 
> Lastly you WILL NOT gain 20 HP by removing the recirc pipe. You will gain the fast and the furious sound so many people seem to pay too much attention too.
> 
> And yes I meant FUEL DELIVERY... As in injectors, pump, rail, and FPR.


Got it... good information to know. It sounds like the turbo version of the motor has more potential for power, (lower compression ratio, and better injectors). The problem is, it costs a heck of a lot more.

I don't care about the sound. I actually want it to be a sleeper. I'll have exhaust for sure, and 99 SE bumpers in the end, but i hope it wont look or sound like I've got a turbo.

At this point, I think im leaning toward buying an engine and swapping it. I love my car, and I don't know if I want to try and buy another. (Unless I could find one at a dealership and trade mine in).

What kind of mods are required to get to 400?

Thanks...


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## Acceler8ter (Feb 5, 2005)

I don't really see how an SR20DET coming out of RWD car makes a difference. I understand it's a different transmission setup and such and would call for some (if not quite a bit) of customization to make it work. Also can't you someway get a transverse type motor? That would call for a straight drop in now wouldn't? I'm not sure if you can a transverse setup though, maybe I should have thought about that earlier.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Acceler8ter said:


> I don't really see how an SR20DET coming out of RWD car makes a difference. I understand it's a different transmission setup and such and would call for some (if not quite a bit) of customization to make it work. Also can't you someway get a transverse type motor? That would call for a straight drop in now wouldn't? I'm not sure if you can a transverse setup though, maybe I should have thought about that earlier.


There are many reasons why the RWD SR20's are not used. From mounts, to oil and coolant passages and other items. No need to re-invent the wheel just use a bluebird or GTi-R motor.


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## Acceler8ter (Feb 5, 2005)

wes said:


> There are many reasons why the RWD SR20's are not used. From mounts, to oil and coolant passages and other items. No need to re-invent the wheel just use a bluebird or GTi-R motor.


Oh I see. What type of motor is in the bluebird then?


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Acceler8ter said:


> Oh I see. What type of motor is in the bluebird then?


A FWD SR20DE-T. That is why you hear people call it a bluebird motor.


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## Acceler8ter (Feb 5, 2005)

wes said:


> A FWD SR20DE-T. That is why you hear people call it a bluebird motor.


...you do realize that if you would have stated this earlier we wouldn't have had this little needless converstation, right?

I don't know what a bluebird even looks like, I've never even heard of one until I came to this board.


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## Nismo1997 (Dec 26, 2003)

*This is what a SR20det Blue bird looks like*


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

ok, first off, the GA to SR conversion isn't exactly something that's fun. It's a lot of work. You may as well get an SR powered vehicle and either turbo it or swap ina different SR, like a DET or a VE.

Anyway, a few different types of DETs:
People can take different types of SR20s and pop on a turbo which works to an extent. There's the Bluebird, Avenir, GTi-R, and Silvia. The engine is named after the car it's from. The Nissan Avenir is an updated version of the Bluebird. GTi-R refers to the Pulsar GTi-R and Sunny GTi-R. Actually, they're from AWD vehicles, but since they're front mounted, they bolt right to the FWD trannies. You cannot use a RWD engine in a FWD car, they don't mount right, the intake manifold and do on is completely off.

Go to SR20forums for all the info you need


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## Acceler8ter (Feb 5, 2005)

Ninety-Nine SE-L said:


> ok, first off, the GA to SR conversion isn't exactly something that's fun. It's a lot of work. You may as well get an SR powered vehicle and either turbo it or swap ina different SR, like a DET or a VE.
> 
> Anyway, a few different types of DETs:
> People can take different types of SR20s and pop on a turbo which works to an extent. There's the Bluebird, Avenir, GTi-R, and Silvia. The engine is named after the car it's from. The Nissan Avenir is an updated version of the Bluebird. GTi-R refers to the Pulsar GTi-R and Sunny GTi-R. Actually, they're from AWD vehicles, but since they're front mounted, they bolt right to the FWD trannies. You cannot use a RWD engine in a FWD car, they don't mount right, the intake manifold and do on is completely off.
> ...


Ah, well that's nice to know. =) I was a little misinformed on this subject, I didn't know there was a problem with it because I was told different. Thanks for scheduling this session to school me. :thumbup:


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## Gimp (Jun 9, 2002)

Ninety-Nine SE-L said:


> ok, first off, the GA to SR conversion isn't exactly something that's fun. It's a lot of work. You may as well get an SR powered vehicle and either turbo it or swap ina different SR, like a DET or a VE.
> 
> Anyway, a few different types of DETs:
> People can take different types of SR20s and pop on a turbo which works to an extent. There's the Bluebird, Avenir, GTi-R, and Silvia. The engine is named after the car it's from. The Nissan Avenir is an updated version of the Bluebird. GTi-R refers to the Pulsar GTi-R and Sunny GTi-R. Actually, they're from AWD vehicles, but since they're front mounted, they bolt right to the FWD trannies. You cannot use a RWD engine in a FWD car, they don't mount right, the intake manifold and do on is completely off.
> ...


While that IS good information, and it MAY be the best solution for some of us, I don't think it's always the way for some of us to go. I'll bet there are quite a few people that have put a lot of cash into their cars and just tossing that for a "newer" car won't happen. I, myself, would LOVE to sell my car and get an se-r, but right now, it's completely paid for. I have enough in the suspension, cosmetics (eh), and wheels and brakes, that I'd rather do the swap.

That's ME though. There are some that may be more financially beneficial to buy an SE-R equipped car. Some not. PLUS, if it's hard as hell or not, it'd definately be a great experience dropping in a new motor.


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## BadBoy91 (Jan 21, 2005)

wes said:


> Mostly good advice. However the NAsr20 can support Big HP regardless of compression, over 400WHP on the stock bottom end. Also they have 370cc injectors while the pulsar GTi-R motors have 440cc injectors.
> 
> Lastly you WILL NOT gain 20 HP by removing the recirc pipe. You will gain the fast and the furious sound so many people seem to pay too much attention too.
> 
> And yes I meant FUEL DELIVERY... As in injectors, pump, rail, and FPR.


 i would like to stand up for my self on the Recirc hose removal. The turbo ECU accounts for the air being delivered in blow off. Therefore if that is not present it creates a temporary rich condition therefore a small power gain. not neccesarily 20hp but something. Not to mention whats wrong with the sound of a BOV? thats not ricey. Big F'n wings and body kits are cheesy not the sound of turbo blow off! Anyway please retort.

Wheres Mike Kojima when you need him?


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## BadBoy91 (Jan 21, 2005)

Maybe im just an idiot though, so one back me up or straighten me out please.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

How is the temporary rich condition going to increase power? And the rich condition is betweem shifts. Rich = less power lean = more power.


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## stevja1 (Jan 25, 2004)

*UPDATE!!!*

*UPDATE*
I did some research on the swap, and ran it against the cost of a new car with a turbo swap. I discovered that people who swap GA16s to SR20s either have a really cheap parts car, or they're nuts. I'm going with the buy new car thing.

I got approved for $6000 dollars toward a car with a SR20 motor. Hopefully it doesn't cost that much. I got of the phone with the bank today. I have a few I'm looking at that are local here in Utah County. Let me know if you're from around here and you have one. 

Now I just need to get that dumb car fax thing bought so I can run VIN Numbers.

Thanks for your help guys. :cheers:


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## B14Boost (Sep 6, 2004)

I have an SR20DE with z31 t3 turbo. Almost ready to swap in. I got my motors for cheap and added the turbo myself. Cheaper than what it would have cost me for a SR20DET.


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## stevja1 (Jan 25, 2004)

B14Boost said:


> I have an SR20DE with z31 t3 turbo. Almost ready to swap in. I got my motors for cheap and added the turbo myself. Cheaper than what it would have cost me for a SR20DET.


 It looks really good. That sucker will haul when you get done with it.

Quick question. On your site, you mentioned that you got the 5th gear pop out thing fixed. The 5th gear pops on out SR20 trannies?


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

stevja1 said:


> It looks really good. That sucker will haul when you get done with it.
> 
> Quick question. On your site, you mentioned that you got the 5th gear pop out thing fixed. The 5th gear pops on out SR20 trannies?


If you are considering buying an SE-R you should research their list of problems and quarks. The B13 tranny's were prone to fifth gear popout on the SE-R's. Not ALL cars had it and there is no designation, you just figure out if you have it or not based on your car.... 

There are other things you shold look in to as well so now comes the SR20 homework.


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## stevja1 (Jan 25, 2004)

I'm looking at a 98 Sentra SE. True dat. Gotta do homework. Anybody got a carfax account?


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

stevja1 said:


> I'm looking at a 98 Sentra SE. True dat. Gotta do homework. Anybody got a carfax account?


No but 5th gear popout was not a problem on the B14's


:thumbup:


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

I thought 3rd and 5th gears were the B13s and B14's biggest tranny problems...aside from the fact that I can never get into reverse without trying a few other gears first.


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## matcapir (Feb 20, 2005)

stevja1 said:


> I'm looking at a 98 Sentra SE. True dat. Gotta do homework. Anybody got a carfax account?


ya, I got one, pm me the vin #.


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## stevja1 (Jan 25, 2004)

matcapir said:


> ya, I got one, pm me the vin #.


 Thanks for your guy's help. I finally bought an 00 Sentra SE. IT RULES. Its got nearly 34k miles and its in okay condition. (The paint and the other parts have seen better days. Anybody know where I can get a new back seat?)


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## stevja1 (Jan 25, 2004)

A 200sx would have been nice, but I think I like the B15 body style, and the power is a pleasant suprise. I guess now I can move up to racing minivans.

I would like to try and turbocharge this car once I get some bills paid off, and once JWT finally comes out with an ECU. I hope I could get under 13s with that. I'm hoping for mid-high 12s. (Not that 13 isn't really fast, but hey, if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna make sure its really fast.)


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

Any more posts about street racing in this thread, and the poster will be banned. If you are wondering why, read the Rules.

Lew


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## DreaMer (Jul 13, 2006)

well if your really crafty you'd just get a custom setup...I think the hardest part would be getting a turbo manifold for the GA...after that your all good to go...and I think if a Honda motor with a compression of 10.1 can handle 10-15 psi I think those motors would be able to handle it...


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

DreaMer said:


> well if your really crafty you'd just get a custom setup...I think the hardest part would be getting a turbo manifold for the GA...after that your all good to go...and I think if a Honda motor with a compression of 10.1 can handle 10-15 psi I think those motors would be able to handle it...


You realize your bumping a thread that is over a year old?


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