# Sticky  MPFI swap on GA16I



## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Ok, I have been toying around in my mind for years with the idea of putting a MPFI manifold from a GA16DE on my GA16I, making it a GA16SE. I have now set this project in motion to see if I can get it to work.

For starters I bought a complete manifold with all sensors and solnoids form a 1994 GA16DE...


I happened to have a spare manifold sitting around from the GA16I, so I sat the two side by side...


As can be seen from the pictures they are very similar, this was encouraging.
I next went down to the auto parts store and bought a new gasket for the GA16I, and sat it on the MPFI manifold to see how close they were...



As can be seen from the pictures there are three holes that do not allign up, and they are about 0.18 inches off. 
I will be taking the manifold to the Bridgeport milling machine and milling some slots to allign up to the engine block.
This project has allready started to get me excited to get it going.
I will keep an update as I have progress on this roject.
Bob


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

you're making me so jealous right now...

but the stuff you're finding out now will help me out so much!

you can already see how much better the DE manifold will flow air. are you going to port match the GA16i head? and i can see that your fears about the coolant jackets can be forgotten as the coolant jacket port is identical.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

sonicgundam said:


> you're making me so jealous right now...
> 
> but the stuff you're finding out now will help me out so much!
> 
> you can already see how much better the DE manifold will flow air. are you going to port match the GA16i head? and i can see that your fears about the coolant jackets can be forgotten as the coolant jacket port is identical.


On my first go around with the pulsar I am going to leave the head exactly how it is, partly because I want to be able to put the old manifold back on if necessary, and partly because I am impatient and want to get it going ASAP.
I am very releaved that the coolant jacket is the same, and as far as I can tell so are the routing of the coolant lines through the intake.
My next concern is with the wiring harness, I do not want to mess up the stock one too much, so I will try to re-use as much of the MPFI harness and some of the harness I have from the extra TB manifold to make an adapter harness.
I measured the resistence of the injecters on the MPFI manifold (11.5 OHMS each), and the injector on the TB manifold (1.5 OHMS) so it looks like the GA16I computer will be able to drive all 4 in paralell.
Bob


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

wait, is the TBI injector 1.5, or 11.5 ohms resistance?


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Update...
The next problem I ran into is the coolant lines. There is one line that is a different size on the MPFI manifold from the rear thermostat housing, so I had to make an adapter to hook it up. I also had to buy a new gasket for the multi port manifold so I could modify it to fit the new pattern. 
Sorry, I don't have any pictures of it yet, but I will soon.

I am now in the phase of the wiring. There are a few problems I forsee with it thus far, but I think with a little work I can get it running.
The most trickey part is the MAF and how to wire it, and the lack of a throttle switch on the MPFI manifold. Also there does not seem to be a temperature sender for the gauge in the dash (I think the newer cars use a signal from the computer)
Everything else on the wiring looks like it will be a direct splice over.
I still need to hook up the throttle cable, and the pipe from the exhaust to the EGR, then I will be ready to start it up.

Oh,
The TBI injector is 1.5 OHMS
the MPFI injectors are 11.5 OHMS each


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

holy crap! so in a week we've gone from theory to just about ready to fire it up. that's freaking incredible....

how much simpler or more difficult do you think this swap would be using the b13 ECU instead of the GA16i ECU?


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

sonicgundam said:


> holy crap! so in a week we've gone from theory to just about ready to fire it up. that's freaking incredible....
> 
> how much simpler or more difficult do you think this swap would be using the b13 ECU instead of the GA16i ECU?


ITS ALIVE!!
I could not sleep for the anticipation, so I got up early this morning and put it the rest of the way togather!
Let me just say one thing...
Holy Holy Holy crap!
Even without the TPS hooked up, or the proper throttle cable (I can only get it to open about 3/4 open) it flys.
I cannot believe how easy this was and why oh why did I not try it before.
Here are some pictures of the franken car as it sits now...








Now comes the rest of the work in fine tuning the details.
As for the B13 computer you would need the harness from the engine and chassis to get it to work. I think there was also someone (recycledtoddler?) on here that had sucessfully done a system where he piggybacked the B12 and B13 ECU and installed a GA16DE sucessfully.


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## alfsentra (May 24, 2006)

Nice work! My friend have the same setup...


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

OH MY GOSH!!! BOB I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i know that with using the b13 ECU it will basically like doing the wiring part of an engine swap. i'm pulling an entire GA16DE + harness/ECU for my manifold swap. BUT, let me know how it runs with the GA16i computer, because i may just get a standalone and use the existing ECU.

oh, as for the performance, how did it change throttle response? acceleration? and speed?

and shall we officially dub this engine the GA16E???

this needs to be stickied!


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## BeyondBiscuits2 (Jan 18, 2006)

Amazing progress in the span of a few days! I second a sticky! Perhaps you could work on a more detailed write-up (once you get all the kinks out) so other members can do this conversion.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

BeyondBiscuits2 said:


> Amazing progress in the span of a few days! I second a sticky! Perhaps you could work on a more detailed write-up (once you get all the kinks out) so other members can do this conversion.


Nathan! good to see you're alive! this is amazing news, is it not?? check your youtube messages.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

I still need to work some bugs out, like the TPS. It does not seem to want to idle very well sometimes, and it idles fine others. I think the resistance of the two TPS's are off. 
After getting some of the sensors wired up properly it seems to have yet a little more power, but also is more hesitant to change RPMs with throttle posistion. I will have to think about it for a while more... as it is now I would not consider it to be a daily driver (too finicky)
I will be very busy with work this week, so I may not get to play much untill this coming weekend. 
After I get everything worked out to my satisfaction I will be doing a write-up with pictures for those who feel adventurous.
Bob


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

bob89sentra said:


> I still need to work some bugs out, like the TPS. It does not seem to want to idle very well sometimes, and it idles fine others. I think the resistance of the two TPS's are off.
> After getting some of the sensors wired up properly it seems to have yet a little more power, but also is more hesitant to change RPMs with throttle posistion. I will have to think about it for a while more... as it is now I would not consider it to be a daily driver (too finicky)
> I will be very busy with work this week, so I may not get to play much untill this coming weekend.
> After I get everything worked out to my satisfaction I will be doing a write-up with pictures for those who feel adventurous.
> Bob


yeah, this is why i want to use the DE ECU and sensors. but bob, you've already done so much, i seriously applaud your progress.


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## Danger Ranger (Feb 6, 2009)

this is truly awesome!! I am very happy for you bob! I just got the pulsar home tonight, and it isnt as rough as I had thought. I will get pics tomorrow and try to get them loaded up here.


keep on pushing with it Bob....its coming along nicely.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

The New TPS that came on the MPFI manifold is not compatible with the GA16I computer. I am working on making an adapter to install the stock TPS on the MPFI manifold. I think after I get this done I will be in the green.
I will keep you guys updated.


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## BeyondBiscuits2 (Jan 18, 2006)

How did you get the injectors to fire in the right sequence? That is the only issue I can't seem to work out in my head on how it all works together.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

BeyondBiscuits2 said:


> How did you get the injectors to fire in the right sequence? That is the only issue I can't seem to work out in my head on how it all works together.


I have it firing all 4 every time, that is how the majority of the engines I have seen work. Even though they have an independent wire for each injector from the computer the computer usually just fires all 4 at the same time. 
I think I have fixed the TPS problem, I made an adapter for the old one so I can use it on the MPFI throttle body. I will see when I get home how well it works.
I hope this will conclude the problems with the sensors and wiring.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

bob89sentra said:


> I have it firing all 4 every time, that is how the majority of the engines I have seen work. Even though they have an independent wire for each injector from the computer the computer usually just fires all 4 at the same time.
> I think I have fixed the TPS problem, I made an adapter for the old one so I can use it on the MPFI throttle body. I will see when I get home how well it works.
> I hope this will conclude the problems with the sensors and wiring.


depends how old the system is. newer ones may have sequential injection. but i think you're right about the B13 GA16DE injectors firing at the same time

let us know how the adapter works man.

got a question, what did you make the gasket out of, or did you use a GA16i gasket, liquid gasket, or just some RTV?


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

I think the debugging is drawing closer to a finish!
Ok I got the TPS/Throttle switch from the TBI manifold adapted to the MPFI manifold. I can get it to idle now, and the throttle response is much smoother. After some time of running the engine to get an idea of it's quirks (it still has a few that bother me) I decided to pull the codes from the computer to see if it noticed any issues. I am getting a code 12, which by my trusty Haynes manual says it is the MAF. I will be testing the MAF with a volt meter, and putting the two (old and new) side by side to see if I can find a difference between them. 
As it runs now I would say it is a bit rough at idle, and there is a small lag before it starts producing power right off of idle. All in all I think It is reliable now, just not as smothe as I would perfer. 
Once I figure out the MAF and get the computer to go into closed loop cycle I want to see how good the mileage is, as well as how smothe I can get it to run. 
As for the gasket, I just bought the gasket for the 1993 sentra (metallic gasket) and cut with tin snips the area where the 3 bolts had changed so it would fit the head.


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## Danger Ranger (Feb 6, 2009)

bob89sentra said:


> I think the debugging is drawing closer to a finish!
> Ok I got the TPS/Throttle switch from the TBI manifold adapted to the MPFI manifold. I can get it to idle now, and the throttle response is much smoother. After some time of running the engine to get an idea of it's quirks (it still has a few that bother me) I decided to pull the codes from the computer to see if it noticed any issues. I am getting a code 12, which by my trusty Haynes manual says it is the MAF. I will be testing the MAF with a volt meter, and putting the two (old and new) side by side to see if I can find a difference between them.
> As it runs now I would say it is a bit rough at idle, and there is a small lag before it starts producing power right off of idle. All in all I think It is reliable now, just not as smothe as I would perfer.
> Once I figure out the MAF and get the computer to go into closed loop cycle I want to see how good the mileage is, as well as how smothe I can get it to run.
> As for the gasket, I just bought the gasket for the 1993 sentra (metallic gasket) and cut with tin snips the area where the 3 bolts had changed so it would fit the head.


that is def coming along well, and quickly. Once running smoothly, will you be able to get some vid of how it is running for us?


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

I should be able to make a video, though I am not sure of how the quality will be. I also will be taking pictures of each thing I had to make or modify, and making drawings of the parts I machined.


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## Danger Ranger (Feb 6, 2009)

awesome. Thanks, and keep up the awesome work man


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

man, it's awesome to see you have progress daily, rather than something new here and there every few weeks!

if this works well will you swap this over to your daily driver b12? or maybe wait to see how well it works with the DE ecu when i do it?


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Ok I have figured out the MAF, it is quite simple actually. I now get a code 55 all systems good from the computer. 
I still am not getting it to go into the closed loop cycle, and I am wondering if it is because the plugs or O2 sensor is fouled up with oil or gas (the pulsar engine does burn some oil).
So far the "Major" things that need to be done to adapt the MPFI is the 3 holes need to be slotted on the manifold, the coolant line from the thermostat housing needs to be adapted from 3/8" to 5/8" to fit on the manifold. The TPS needs an adapter shaft so you can re-use the stock TPS/throttle switch. 
And the MAF needs a calibration resistor installed between ground (pins 3+4) and pin 5. The stock MAF uses a POT (potentiometer, AKA variable resistor) that the factory adjusts to calibrate the MAF, and the new one does not have this variable resistor. The trick was to temporarily splice the old POT into the new MAF and adjust untill the mixture is right. Then measure the value of the the POT and install a resistor in its place.
Now that I have everything but the EGR, Charcoal canister, and temp gauge hooked up the engine runs much smoother, still a little throttle lag, probably from improper adjustment on TPS; I will be finalizing everything I can so that I can make some reliable documentation on everything.
BTW the power band seems to be:
1,000 RPM-3,900 RPM very similar to stock good general power
4,000 RPM- 5,900RPM huge boost in power, 25-35 HP?
6,000 RPM- 6,700 RPM still a signifficant boost in power from stock 10-15 HP?
I need to get someone to ride along with me to video, and time the acceleration, but my estimate is a good 5-6 seconds have been cut from its 0-60MPH time.
That is all for today!
Bob


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## Danger Ranger (Feb 6, 2009)

get it squared away man, and get that thing on a dyno. I would like to know what numbers you are putting to the ground


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

that's great man. seeing as you have a running GA16i as well, maybe officially time the differences.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

That's a great idea! I was planning on putting my spare 5 speed box from an 89 pulsar in the Sentra, as soon as I have that then the gears will be the same between the two so I could do a run with each to see the numbers.

On the Dyno, I have never paid for a session before, how much does it usually cost? I am unsure that I could afford it right now. So far this project's expenses are just my time and $70 of parts from my local auto wrecker, and $15 for gaskets from Auto parts store. I also plan in the next few weeks to save for the Euro cam so I can get even more out of this engine, though I would like to see the numbers with just the manifold first.
Well, I am off to do some more research.
Bob


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

Definitely save for the eurocam bob. it's so completely worth the investment.

as for dyno times, they can be expensive. best thing is to find a buddy that has one and let him use your dyno for a case of beer. or someone that will let you pay them over time. but maybe you have a local dyno that's inexpensive. just ask around .


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## Danger Ranger (Feb 6, 2009)

sonicgundam said:


> Definitely save for the eurocam bob. it's so completely worth the investment.
> 
> as for dyno times, they can be expensive. best thing is to find a buddy that has one and let him use your dyno for a case of beer. or someone that will let you pay them over time. but maybe you have a local dyno that's inexpensive. just ask around .


not really that expensive....around here (dallas) it is on special alot for 30 for 3 pulls, and I think normally 3 pulls are around 40-60 depending. I will be getting pulls done on my pulsar as I get into it as well....I just want it running first.

I think I will be swapping the engine to achieve that though )


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

Danger Ranger said:


> not really that expensive....around here (dallas) it is on special alot for 30 for 3 pulls, and I think normally 3 pulls are around 40-60 depending. I will be getting pulls done on my pulsar as I get into it as well....I just want it running first.
> 
> I think I will be swapping the engine to achieve that though )


wow that's really good pricing. dynoing is expensive out here.


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## Danger Ranger (Feb 6, 2009)

dallas has more time to run too...more places to go as well....texas motor speedway, ennis drag, kennedale drag, northstar drag, redline drag, you get the point. many car clubs do dyno days and then 30 for 3 pulls is the norm


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

Danger Ranger said:


> dallas has more time to run too...more places to go as well....texas motor speedway, ennis drag, kennedale drag, northstar drag, redline drag, you get the point. many car clubs do dyno days and then 30 for 3 pulls is the norm


yeah, round here its about 100-130 for 3 pulls.

it will be a maybe if i can afford it after the swap. still if bob can get pulls with his non-cammed engine, and i can get pulls with my eurocammed engine, that will give us numbers too .

i thought of making my own thread for the swap with the DE ecu/harness, but now that we got this stickied, i'll put mine in here, and have bob edit the first post if he still can to note that its farther along. i'm hoping to get it started next week.


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## Danger Ranger (Feb 6, 2009)

awesome deal...I am actually considering either a swap for a ca18de or sr20de. I found both under 1k. the ca for 595 and the sr for 695. but thats more than I bought the car for, lol.

we will see though. the exhaust manafold needs a lil work to get onto the car again


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## CHEPE B12 (May 7, 2004)

Thats a very awesome swap. 

But for the simple mortals, can you write a guide with pics? jajjaajajaj.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

CHEPE B12 said:


> Thats a very awesome swap.
> 
> But for the simple mortals, can you write a guide with pics? jajjaajajaj.


i will do so when i do my version.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

I have had some more progress with this, I chased some of the issues down to the lack of an air box creating problems with the MAF and idle stability. I still need to figure out the closed loop cycle before I do my writeup with pictures. I also think I may have made the TPS adapter a little off, as I cannot seem to adjust it quite far enough yet. 
My other setback is the pulsar burns allot of oil (very worn rings) and I cannot licence it to drive untill I pull it apart and replace the rings. 
BTW it burned oil before I started this project, I just wanted to do it to an engine that I did not care as much about since the Sentra is the daily driver.
This has thus far been a fast paced exciting adventure, and I hope I continue to have such great success.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Just to keep you guys updated this project is still going strong.
I Replaced the throttle cable with the one from the 1991 sentra, and finished installing the air box, as well as moving the spark coil to make room for the new air box.
I also hooked up the EGR system, and have hooked up several other minor things like PCV and such
I just ordered a new rebuild kit, and I will be tearing the whole thing down to replace the rings and valve guide seals. Once it is all back together I will be doing the write-up with all the pictures of each piece modified.
I plan to make this car the daily driver for a while, so I can get accurate numbers on the fuel economy and to see just how reliable it will be.


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## BeyondBiscuits2 (Jan 18, 2006)

Way to go! I can't wait for this to be finished... my friend and I are going to undertake the manifold swap on his '89 GA16i, and even go as far as to turbo it. I'd love to feature your swap on my YouTube channel if you have a video camera.

YouTube - TheSentraChannel's Channel


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

OK,
the re-build is well on it's way.
The pictures will show much better than I could explain, so...










I am currently re-building the Head with new valve guide seals, and cleaning/ lapping all the valves. The piston ring end gap was about .025"-.030", but the bore is perfect, just a light hone and a new set of rings should make this baby perfect. 
I noticed the front sway bar end link was broken, so I replaced it with a new one, and installed some Hankook Ventus HRII P195-50-R15's on some Saturn 15" rims and took it for another run. The difference in handeling alone makes me excited to get the engine finished. 
I am going to start another thread some time here with the write-up with pictures of the MPFI swap.
BTW I am leaving on a business trip starting in april, and will not be able to work on this for 6 weeks as I will be out of the country, so even more reason to get this done sooner!


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

The Engine is now re-assembled! The oil consuming has stopped no more clouds of smoke behind me when driving. I took pictures of everything I modified, and now am in the process of doing a writeup with dimentions and such.
I just need to put my new licence tags on and I can start documenting the mileage, and see just how reliable this thing will be. 
I have to say that the MPFI manifold looks right at home in the engine bay.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Well, I have gone through the first tank of gas with it and was pleasently supprised to see I got 28MPG. That is with driving it very hard constantly, and long periods of idling. The ease which it passes cars on the open highway is astonishing, starting at 55 and without dounshifting press the gas pedal to the floor and a few seconds later I am going 75. Climbing hills can be done in top gear with very little throttle. The only dissapointing aspect thus far is it tends not to have very good power from 5,500 RPM to 7,000 RPM, but that is most likely from the restrictive exhaust and the stock bumpstick (cam).
I have resolved to take this thing to a dyno, just so I can get an accurate number before I do the cam and header swaps.
I also started the writeup on the wiring that gets spliced/ changed, there are only about 2 dozen wires to deal with total, and most of them are a easy cut and splice. 
The more I drive this car the more I wonder why I did not try it before, it is so very simple!


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

thats awesome bob! and yeah, don't expect much more power between 5500 and 7k. the 3valve GA is definitely a mid-range engine. makes sense its power is in the mid range, being a 3 valve per cylinder setup. but yeah, the cam + header/exhaust will only compliment that mid range power and low end torque even more.

for the time being i've decided not to do the turbo project. i think with useing the GA16DE ecu/harness, JWT ecu tune, completing all boltons including the fidanza flywheel (9lbs where the JWT is 11), and the GA16DE UR pulley which has resurfaced, and going with a port match/polish on the head, i should achieve some nice N/A numbers while keeping the stock 9.4:1 CR.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Well, I have now run 3 more tanks of gas through and I am averaging about 26MPG in the city. 
I only have a week left before I am deployed so I probably won't bother posting what I have done on the write-up until I return some time in June. I am going to try to get this on a Dyno before I go and also see if I can get some videos uploaded.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

bob89sentra said:


> Well, I have now run 3 more tanks of gas through and I am averaging about 26MPG in the city.
> I only have a week left before I am deployed so I probably won't bother posting what I have done on the write-up until I return some time in June. I am going to try to get this on a Dyno before I go and also see if I can get some videos uploaded.


26 city is pretty damn good. considering the power increase and the delivery efficiency increase, i would assume that this is going to be between 36 and 42mpg hwy, and that would be american gallons. different up here lol.

for canadians thats 9L/100km

and that estimated hwy value is about 6L/100km


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

So I put it on a Dyno yesterday, and was a little dissapointed with the results...





Sorry I don't have an electronic version to post just yet so it is a little blury from scaning the printout.
I suspect the cat is plugged from all the oil it was burning previously. The HP drops of relitivly quickly right after 4,500 RPM with a Peak of 78HP and 92 FT LBS TQ. 
This was dynod at 6,500 feet of elevation, so If my math is right that would put me around 92HP and 105FT LBS of TQ at sea level right around 4,700- 5,000 RPM for the peak HP and Peak TQ around 3,500-4,000 RPM. 
I have not measured the back pressure on the exhaust yet but I suspect it is really high causing a very sharp drop in TQ and HP around 4,500 RPM.

What do you all think?


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

i think that dyno was off. and yes, it's fully possible for a dyno to be off. the torque looks about right. considering for drivetrain loss, the HP number looks about the same as it should for a TBI GA16. the torque numbers look about right, an increase of about 10lbft over stock, but the HP numbers are way down, with an increase of only ~1 max HP, though you did say top end didn't feel much better, but mid range was great. i still say i think the dyno's HP numbers are off, because the swap should have increased that alot more than 1hp. also, you could need new valve springs. 

also that curve is so shakey it looks wrong, and look how rich you're running until about 5k rpm.

that torque number, i like it  it looks proper. being a 3valve head, it should have more torque than a 4valve head, and low and behold, a GA16E has more torque than a GA16DE (bout 82lb.ft stock).

after i've built my all motor GA16E bob, i'll have it on the best dyno in town, and i'll post what a well built stock block GA16E can do.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Yeah I did hear mention that this particular Dyno was not very accurate below 250HP since it is rated for 1000+ HP. I heard some people say that between the 5-6 dynos in town that there was about 20% difference between the highest and lowest.
The GA16I was supposed to produce a peak 90HP @ 6000 RPM but my HP dropps at 5,000 RPM. 
When I get my headers tomorrow and eventually my Euro cam and check the back pressure on the exhaust I shall know a little more.
BTW the mixture was too LEAN untill about 4,000, and got richer around 5,000-6,000 RPM
It actually produces the best TQ when the mixture is leaner.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

my bad lol, read it backwards. but yeah, that makes sense now that you've mentioned its calibrated for more hp.

i wouldn't return there then, as a GOOD dyno crew can recalibrate it to make ready for you.

also, considering the hp peaks at 6k, the MPFI swap should have increased that range to peak at a higher RPM. like you're suggesting, you could have exhaust blockage, or weak valve springs.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

I just drove it to see the back pressure; it is 5-6 PSI at the exhaust manifold from 4,000RPM-redline at full throttle. What is considered normal?
I don't really know, but it could be too high, I should do some more research...
I know the pulsar is lighter than the sentra, but it is so much quicker than the sentra there is almost no comparison. I am going to do some more searching and see what I find...


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

that's actually alot of back pressure. no car should have more than 1-2psi. you might have a clogged cat. i'm assuming your sentra has a good cat. either switch them or test the back pressure in the sentra to see how that is.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Got my headers today, and put them on. I drove around with open headers for a few hours, and was happy with the performance. When I get up to 5,000 RPM the HP does not feel like it drops off, but keeps on pulling. I next welded up an adapter flange to hook the headers to the rest of the exhaust, and drove it some more. With the cat and muffler hooked back up it loses power again around 5K but not as bad as before. I need to hook my pressure gauge back up to see what the backpressure is at now. I suspect the problem lies in the muffler, since it has a very small tailpipe (about 1" ID). The cat I have installed now is not plugged, but is not really great for high flow.
Yet another thing for me to eventually look into.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

you could use a glasspack and the pacesetter exhaust. less expensive and a better solution to your back pressure issues possibly. but i understand the want to keep a cat too. you could just go with the pacesetter. i mean, on the project 1.6, they saw an increase of 6whp with it. which is massive for an exhaust system, especially on a 1.6.

this is the best place to get it, less than ebay:
Import Performance Parts - Import Performance Engine & Racing Parts


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## Biscuit (Mar 5, 2005)

Holy shit I aint even thought about this. I bet it makes that lil GA16 fly!


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Hey all, I'm back from my deployment overseas. I have some bad news though.
I was going on a road trip, and checked all my fluids including antifreeze. In a moment of regretable stupidity I forgot to put my radiator cap back on and drove the car. It was raining very hard, so I did not even notice it was boiling all the water out, and over the noise of the rain by the time I heard the engine pinging it was too late.
The head is cracked, so project GA16E is now on hold until I get another car (preferably sentra) to bolt my MFPI swap on to continue the project.
A few things I have learned...
1) DO NOT build a project engine and leave the Gauge Temp sensor off because there is no bung to thread it into.
2)Things must be done in the proper order, IE get all the right coolant lines and housings before assembling the rest of the engine. It is a Pain in the butt to get them on after the rest of the engine is assembled.
3)The GA16 has great potential, but if you don't have the time to do things 100% right you should not try to mod your daily driver!

As far as I am concerned this project was a huge success, and I am certainly going to continue it with another car in the not so distant future. I have gotten my 89 sentra back up and running and the difference in HP is night and day between the two. 
Bob


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

bob, move up here lol. there's lotsa b12s up here. and we could work on lotsa projects


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

bob89sentra said:


> Hey all, I'm back from my deployment overseas. I have some bad news though.
> I was going on a road trip, and checked all my fluids including antifreeze. In a moment of regretable stupidity I forgot to put my radiator cap back on and drove the car. It was raining very hard, so I did not even notice it was boiling all the water out, and over the noise of the rain by the time I heard the engine pinging it was too late.
> The head is cracked, so project GA16E is now on hold until I get another car (preferably sentra) to bolt my MFPI swap on to continue the project.
> A few things I have learned...
> ...


pm'd you about some stuff.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

I just bought a JDM GA15, project GA16E/GA15E continues!
Does anyone know what cam the JDM GA15S has? It certainly is different from the stock GA16I cam. The GA15 head is already ported out around the intake manifold (for the injecters), so the MPFI manifold will be a even better match for this head. I am excited to see what the short stroke will do for my RPM's, now if only I could tweak the stock ECU to boost the redline past 6,500RPM!

.:EDIT:.
also the GA15 comes with the front housing for the radiator hose threaded for a sensor, which looks like the perfect place to add my temp gauge sender without any modification or drilling!


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

bob89sentra said:


> I just bought a JDM GA15, project GA16E/GA15E continues!
> Does anyone know what cam the JDM GA15S has? It certainly is different from the stock GA16I cam. The GA15 head is already ported out around the intake manifold (for the injecters), so the MPFI manifold will be a even better match for this head. I am excited to see what the short stroke will do for my RPM's, now if only I could tweak the stock ECU to boost the redline past 6,500RPM!
> 
> .:EDIT:.
> also the GA15 comes with the front housing for the radiator hose threaded for a sensor, which looks like the perfect place to add my temp gauge sender without any modification or drilling!


so are you just using the manifold, or the entire engine? and did you order a ga15E or S?


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

The Listing was for a GA15E, but when the engine arrived it was the GA15S with a carburetor. The intake ports are opened up around where injectors would go on a GA15E, my guess is the factory uses the same head for all GA15 engines whether it be E, S, or I.
I plan on just swapping all of the old setup onto the new block and head. If all goes well, I will have this project going again in just a few more weeks. The setback is I am leaving on the 10th of August for 2-4 weeks and I don't want to rush anything this time. I think at the very least I will get everything put together on the GA15 and get it ready to drop in when I get back. 
BTW if anyone buys the JDM GA15 it has SOLID mechanical lifters and a plastic lifter cover! Also you will have to fabricate or find and buy a cover for where the mechanical fuel pump was. Other than that it looks like a very streight forward swap.
Cheers!
Bob


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

did you order this one: JDM GA15E

or this one?JDM GA15

cuz the second one listed is a ga15s.

and basically you're saying the GA15 head can rev higher?


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

sonicgundam said:


> did you order this one: JDM GA15E
> 
> or this one?JDM GA15
> 
> ...


The listing on E-bay said "JDM GA15DE", but the pictures showed a GA16I... yes they had pics of a GA16I with TBI. 
I E-mailed them and they sent back that it was not a GA15DE they said it was a GA15E. At that point I decided to buy it, and when it arrived it was not like the description or the pictures. What I have most resembles the second one, but without the air box and only 50% of the accesories. I have already contacted them and they offered to return my money, but I have already gone through too much hassle to be picky about which intake manifold it has. I have decided to just use what I have and wish that I had the JDM MPFI manifold 

And on the revving higher, I missinturpreted the info on bore/stroke, the GA15 has less bore than the GA16, I thought it had less stroke. So actually it should be the same as the GA16 for the Revvs. Ah well, I still think it will do great in the Pulsar with my MPFI.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

bob89sentra said:


> The listing on E-bay said "JDM GA15DE", but the pictures showed a GA16I... yes they had pics of a GA16I with TBI.
> I E-mailed them and they sent back that it was not a GA15DE they said it was a GA15E. At that point I decided to buy it, and when it arrived it was not like the description or the pictures. What I have most resembles the second one, but without the air box and only 50% of the accesories. I have already contacted them and they offered to return my money, but I have already gone through too much hassle to be picky about which intake manifold it has. I have decided to just use what I have and wish that I had the JDM MPFI manifold
> 
> And on the revving higher, I missinturpreted the info on bore/stroke, the GA15 has less bore than the GA16, I thought it had less stroke. So actually it should be the same as the GA16 for the Revvs. Ah well, I still think it will do great in the Pulsar with my MPFI.


ok, reason i was wondering if it would rev higher is if the valvetrain is stronger, therefore handling higher revs. how much did the engine cost you? and did they say you had to pay the return shipping? cuz if not, it may be worth getting the money back and ordering the first one there for the MPFI manifold.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

sonicgundam said:


> ok, reason i was wondering if it would rev higher is if the valvetrain is stronger, therefore handling higher revs. how much did the engine cost you? and did they say you had to pay the return shipping? cuz if not, it may be worth getting the money back and ordering the first one there for the MPFI manifold.


$475 to my door, they did not say about the return shipping, anyway I could just buy the GA15E shipped for around $700, and that way I would have a spare engine...
I'd bet there are several people who have bought the GA15E from E-bay, and pulled the MFPI manifold off, and threw it away, or have it lying around. 
As for the Mechanical lifters I do not think that they are any stronger than the Hydraullic lifters, but people who race small block chevy's tend to run solid lifters. I think you get better lift with the mechanical lifters even with lower oil pressure. 
In any case it is too late to ship the engine back as I have allready stripped off the manifolds and am getting it ready to drop in the Pulsar.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

yea the reason for solid lifters is that if you lose oil pressure, you don't lose the lifters lol.

oh and i sent you another pm bob.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

(check pms)

wish NF emailed you when you got a PM


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Got it all together again, and have Just about worked out all the bugs. I am very pleased with the results, and now that I have gotten the O2 sensor loop to close it lookes like the mileage has gone way up! (Looks like almost 37MPG) When I go through the first tank and clock the mileage I will post back with the actual numbers.
I have all the info on the wiring, and the drawing for the TPS adapter, and am compiling a list of things needed to make the whole swap.
When I get 100% complete I will post a full write-up with pictures so that anyone can do this too.
Bob


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

you could mount a sr20de TB on the mpfi intake..all you have to do is bore out he manifold to match the TB...helps with throttle response! had it on my sentra with cams and exhaust..was a blast!
and great job with the Hoe-E-M modification! this is one of my favorite types of modifications!


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

TOOQIKK said:


> you could mount a sr20de TB on the mpfi intake..all you have to do is bore out he manifold to match the TB...helps with throttle response! had it on my sentra with cams and exhaust..was a blast!
> and great job with the Hoe-E-M modification! this is one of my favorite types of modifications!


Does said SR20DE TB hook up to the same TPS and coolant lines? What about the Rubber tube from MAF to TB? I think this might be fun to try too!


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

bob89sentra said:


> I just drove it to see the back pressure; it is 5-6 PSI at the exhaust manifold from 4,000RPM-redline at full throttle. What is considered normal?
> I don't really know, but it could be too high, I should do some more research...
> I know the pulsar is lighter than the sentra, but it is so much quicker than the sentra there is almost no comparison. I am going to do some more searching and see what I find...


With open CAT it is now around 0.75 PSI max, so I have Identified the problem as the muffler. I will be putting on a inexpensive turbo muffler, and I should gain all the flow back.


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

bob89sentra said:


> With open CAT it is now around 0.75 PSI max, so I have Identified the problem as the muffler. I will be putting on a inexpensive turbo muffler, and I should gain all the flow back.


my i suggets a magnaflow muffler
check out 
Magnaflow Performance | Discount Performance Auto Parts | Performance Exhaust Systems | Flowmaster Performance Mufflers
and use the code EBAYROCKS 

i have used this site several times in the past(i am notorious for my side exit exhuast on my b13!)have made couple others...they have good prices and ship fast!


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

bob89sentra said:


> Does said SR20DE TB hook up to the same TPS and coolant lines? What about the Rubber tube from MAF to TB? I think this might be fun to try too!


 i had to mount the tps in reverse and the coolant lines match(i had done the coolant line by pass mod....) only other thing i had to do was "gently" bend the vacuum line on the intake on the side where the tps mounts and trimmed the connector so it would fit on (was quite easy)
the rubber hose to the tb between the maf i took a sauce pot and heated up about 2" of water to boiling put the end of the hose in there for a few minutes to heat it up and then slipped it onto the tb...its a tight fit but it goes on took two tries the first time to get it right...lol it will hold the shape just fine after it cools down on the TB.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

*Project GA16E sitll going*

Well, it has been a long while, time for an update...
I have been traveling over the last 6 months and have had only a few weeks at home. I did resolve the back pressure issue, it was a combination of muffler and tailpipe. I am running a new cat-back exhaust with 1 3/8" pipe, and have no back pressure issues anymore. I have also hooked up the last of the sensors on the MPFI manifold, and have this baby purring at idle around 850-900 RPM. Upon acceleration it feels exactly like the GA16I in my sentra untill I hit 3,400 RPM then you get the pull where you can feel the seat pushing on your back. The power band seems to drop off near 5,000 RPM, but it still has some "GO" even up to 6,700 RPM. I am now running some tests on combustion temperature on each cylinder, and found that one of my cylinders (no3) is not running right, the exhaust temp is 300 degrees F lower than the others. I suspect that I might have a bad or dirty injector, or even a spark plug issue. 
I am now running the Pulsar as my daily driver, so I have been doing measurements on everything to see where I need to improve next. 
I believe I have solved all the isues I had with MAF, TPS, and AAC/FICD, and probably the Oxygen sensor, so I am moving on to the injectors, and then I will look at manifold vacuum at wide open throttle to see if I might want to do the SR20 throttle body swap to increase the flow even more on the manifold. Other than that I think I have achieved a very reliable and effective way to get a little more out of a GA16I without all the hassle of swapping the computer and wiring (which I might do next anyway)
Untill next time,
Bob


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/api.aspx

try running some of this through it!


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Have been thinking on my Injection issue, and had a DUH DUH DUH moment!
I am running 4 injectors in Paralell, and they are not all the same (from 3 different donor cars) and I'll bet that cylinder number 3 is getting flooded with gas, which is why the O2 sensor cannot correct it properly without leaning the other 3 out too far!
Off to the Auto Wrecker I go for some more injectors!


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

bob89sentra said:


> Have been thinking on my Injection issue, and had a DUH DUH DUH moment!
> I am running 4 injectors in Paralell, and they are not all the same (from 3 different donor cars) and I'll bet that cylinder number 3 is getting flooded with gas, which is why the O2 sensor cannot correct it properly without leaning the other 3 out too far!
> Off to the Auto Wrecker I go for some more injectors!


ahah! good deductive reasoning bob!

i have one question again... did you get a distributor with your "JDM GA15"??

does it happen to be a vacuum advance dizzy?


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

sonicgundam said:


> ahah! good deductive reasoning bob!
> 
> i have one question again... did you get a distributor with your "JDM GA15"??
> 
> does it happen to be a vacuum advance dizzy?


It did have a vacuum advance distributer, but was broken in half at some point. I did not keep any of the parts of the engine that were damaged though.

As for the injectors!
WOW! I bought 4 mached injectors and soaked them for a few days in Injector cleaner, and bought new O-rings and installed them. Thus far it has increased the smotheness of the power (no sudden increase at 3,500 RPM, just solid pull from just above Idle all the way up), and my last tank of gas I averaged 32MPG in the city.
I will run a few more tanks of gas through it over the next few weeks, I have high hopes for this baby!
The bad news is I seem to be leaking oil at an alarming rate of 1.5 quarts per 300 miles, and upon investigation I found that the JDM engine has a big crack in the timing cover that was covered up with silver RTV 
I allready have the new cover coming my way thanks to E-bay, and will be installing it next weekend.


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

sounded like an injector problem...glad you got it fixed! good luck with the cover!


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

BTW nothing brings a grin to my face more than when I am passing all the V6's with my little 1,500CC engine GRRRRR


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

Dam! foiled again. i am desperately in search of a GA series vacuum advance distributor.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

I did a little more research, and testing on the Pulsar this weekend.
I have come to the conclusion that a SR20 throttle body would not bring any signifficant gain to the HP, and probbably would loose some throttle response. With the stock GA16DE TB on the MPFI manifold I hooked a vacuum gauge in place of the carbon canister, which supplies vacuum from immediatly after the butterfly. At 6,700 RPM climbing a steep hill I have 0 inches of vacuum with the throttle at 7/8- 100% open. This means that the air filter, MAF, and TB are big enough to supply sufficient air under the highest RPMs under high load. 
Since I have fixed the back pressure issues on the exhaust and have sufficient flow there, I think the next place of restriction would be the cam/ head/valves. I had almost forgotten about the GA16I NISMO EURO cam, that boasts an aditional 20 HP over the stock GA16I cam. I decided that would be my next step, and have ordered it.
I really want to Dyno this setup again before I do the EURO cam swap, to get some real numbers for both setups, but I probbably will wait till after the EURO cam swap, and get the final results. I just hate to go off how the engine feels, rather than concrete numbers that show the gains/ losses of a particular swap or modification.


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

the sr TB does increase throttle response...i have done the swap in the past...makes a noticeable increase.......one of the few that have done it....unfortunately i dont have either the car or the manifold/tb set up any more...been years since i did it....sold it to a member on the forums...hopefully its still in use....lol
but look forward to seeing the euro cam install...and testing....


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

bob89sentra said:


> I did a little more research, and testing on the Pulsar this weekend.
> I have come to the conclusion that a SR20 throttle body would not bring any signifficant gain to the HP, and probbably would loose some throttle response. With the stock GA16DE TB on the MPFI manifold I hooked a vacuum gauge in place of the carbon canister, which supplies vacuum from immediatly after the butterfly. At 6,700 RPM climbing a steep hill I have 0 inches of vacuum with the throttle at 7/8- 100% open. This means that the air filter, MAF, and TB are big enough to supply sufficient air under the highest RPMs under high load.
> Since I have fixed the back pressure issues on the exhaust and have sufficient flow there, I think the next place of restriction would be the cam/ head/valves. I had almost forgotten about the GA16I NISMO EURO cam, that boasts an aditional 20 HP over the stock GA16I cam. I decided that would be my next step, and have ordered it.
> I really want to Dyno this setup again before I do the EURO cam swap, to get some real numbers for both setups, but I probbably will wait till after the EURO cam swap, and get the final results. I just hate to go off how the engine feels, rather than concrete numbers that show the gains/ losses of a particular swap or modification.


bob, wait to do a before and after. with your abilities you'll be able to do the cam swap in 30 mins, another 30 mins for break-in, then do some more runs on the dyno. you can do your before and after in one day .


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## novastar (Mar 14, 2010)

Can't wait to see the writeup on this bob. Looks great, and can't wait to do it to mine.
Keep up the good work, can't wait to see what your pulsar does on the dyno.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

TOOQIKK said:


> the sr TB does increase throttle response...i have done the swap in the past...makes a noticeable increase.......one of the few that have done it....unfortunately i dont have either the car or the manifold/tb set up any more...been years since i did it....sold it to a member on the forums...hopefully its still in use....lol
> but look forward to seeing the euro cam install...and testing....


Just to clarify what engine were you swapping the SR20 TB onto? The stock GA16I is TBI, and you would not be able to put a TB from a MPFI engine without the manifold. If you were putting the SR20 TB on a GA16DE that is a whole different story, it has 16 Valves , and 2 cams with different overlap/duration/lift. 
As my current setup is now I have no need for any more flow through the TB since the Vacuum drops to 0 Inches before I get it all the way open. Maybe after I do the EURO cam swap I will need it...


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

sonicgundam said:


> bob, wait to do a before and after. with your abilities you'll be able to do the cam swap in 30 mins, another 30 mins for break-in, then do some more runs on the dyno. you can do your before and after in one day .



I would like to do that, I was hoping to talk with the guys at the Dyno, and see if they would let me do 2 runs, and then come back an hour or so later and do two more runs for a small increase of price.
I just don't want to fork out $85 twice.

I really am curious what kind of power I am getting now since I have changed to a GA15, but now have headers, freeflowing exhaust, and working injectors. 
I also would like to see what the Euro cam does all by itself.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

bob89sentra said:


> I would like to do that, I was hoping to talk with the guys at the Dyno, and see if they would let me do 2 runs, and then come back an hour or so later and do two more runs for a small increase of price.
> I just don't want to fork out $85 twice.
> 
> I really am curious what kind of power I am getting now since I have changed to a GA15, but now have headers, freeflowing exhaust, and working injectors.
> I also would like to see what the Euro cam does all by itself.


should be well over that of a GA16i. 100cc's of difference in size due to bore diameter is not going to be that much of a difference in power. if it was due to a difference in stroke, then it would probably be more significant.

as for them letting you do more pulls, unless the want to be dicks, you've been there before. letting you do a couple more pulls an hour later shouldn't be an issue.

just explain to them what you're doing. if they're not busy, i'm sure they'd even go as far as to help you get the cam in right there at the shop. like i said before, it takes no time at all.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Well, I am a little torn at this point. I would like to Dyno it before and after, but funds right now may not allow even an after Dyno run. My father totaled his car, and I purchased another one this past weekend for him, so I either have to wait for a few months to do the cam swap  or just swap it and do the Dyno later when money is not so tight. 
I really wanted to get the Euro cam in there to see the difference, but at this point I think I will wait till I can do the Before and After Dyno.

BTW the GA15E is still running strong, and consistantly getting 32 MPG in the city. I have yet to take it on a long highway trip to see what I will get for mileage there, but I have high hopes!
Till next time,
Bob


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

bob89sentra said:


> Just to clarify what engine were you swapping the SR20 TB onto? The stock GA16I is TBI, and you would not be able to put a TB from a MPFI engine without the manifold. If you were putting the SR20 TB on a GA16DE that is a whole different story, it has 16 Valves , and 2 cams with different overlap/duration/lift.
> As my current setup is now I have no need for any more flow through the TB since the Vacuum drops to 0 Inches before I get it all the way open. Maybe after I do the EURO cam swap I will need it...


oh sorry still use to ga16de motors and sr20de(and sr20dets)...lol
still gettin use to dealing with these older models....but all the same glad she is running strong...and you should be upwards of 38mpg on the highway if you are pulling down 32mpg in the city! that is awesome better than most new cars
i know my 91 E with jdm swapped sr20 and all the bolt ons for it would pull 38mpg on the high way all day long and not even think about it! and my completely stock 92 xe with ga16de got 48mpg on the highway!!!!!blew my mind!(had to make several trips to maryland from ohio for work....true testament to nissan and their engineers! 
sorry to hear about your dads car....was nice to get him another one...hopin it was a nissan...lol

just make sure you keep the cam nice and oiled if you arent gonna install it anytime soon!


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Still throwing down 32MPG in the city!
I talked with another dyno this past weekend, and they will do a 3 pull run before and after a swap for $100. They told me that the actual numbers of their dyno might read low, but was the most accurate in town for showing the difference in a swap or Mod in HP. After looking at the stock GA16I camshaft, the stock JDM GA15S camshaft, and NISMO Eurosport cam, I was supprised that I could not see any difference between them, with the possible exception of the NISMO cam very vaguely looks like it might have wider lobes. I wish there were more information on these cams out there like duration, lift, lobe seperation, ect.
I plan to take the pulsar on a 2,000+ mile road trip next week on a vacation, so the Dyno will have to be when I get back.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Update:
So I had to postpone the 2,000 mile road trip /Vacation because unusal amounts of snow. The last 3 tanks of gas I have run through it (city driving) have been 34MPG. 

I also found out the reason for the detonation at higher RPM when the engine was warm. When I was tuning the stock TPS to the new injector setup I noticed that it would almost flood the engine when I opened the throttle, so after much testing and ocilliscope diagnostics I put a 60K Ohm resistor in series with the TPS to attenuate the signal. That was before I resolved the bad injector issue, so 60K Ohms is actually too much, and was causing it to lean out especially under hard acceleration and when it was warmer it would detonate. I have since been trying to narrow it down to a speciffic value that would work for the new working injectors, but for now I am running it with the TPS unplugged. It actually has no throttle lag, and runs even better than with either the stock or modified versions!

My previous thoughts about the TPS being only a subsitute for a accelerator pump, were way wrong. A TPS typically has controll over the duration of the injector pulse, not only when it senses rapid changes in posistion, but during all times when the idle switch is not energised. Along with the signal from the MAF the computer decides how much fuel needs to be injected for an aproximate mixture. Then the O2 sensor does the fine tuning feedback to the computer to give you the best mileage without going lean.

I am learning so much about the way these systems work, I am very glad I decided to tackle this project.


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## Cam 1989 B12 (Jun 13, 2010)

Can you post some pic's please, anxious to see the engine.

Cheers, Cam.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

*Update*

Project GA16E is still running strong!
Work has been very slow for me the past two months, and money has gotten even more tight. I still have been holding out on the Euro cam swap till I can dyno it fot the before and after, but I am starting to get anxious.
I have chased down a few random phantom bugs that turned out to be loose connections on the CTS, and MAF. 
This weekend, since I had some spare time I took the lifter cover off, and did some clean-up and then painted it. 
I will be posting some pictures up of the engine bay soon, even though I usually don't care much for how an engine looks, I have to say that I am rather happy how this one looks. 
Untill next time,
Bob


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

I havn't washed it in a while, but this is what she looks like now...


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

nice job! very clean!


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

you can route the throttle cable underneath the intake manifold to help "clean" up the engine bay a bit.....it is a common "mod" on the ga and sr motors.....


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

So, It has been quite some time on this project, and I just wanted to throw out an update.
I finally got too impatient for the extra budget to come in for the Dyno on the euro cam, so I went ahead and swapped it out. 
Power band is way smoother, no point does it lag, or peak.
After 5,000 miles of 85% interstate driving it has a new average of 39MPG(was 43MPG average before)

There was still one problem with the stock computer that annoyed me where it would buck when you opened the throttle a little, though it was very good everywhere else I decided to swap in the GA16DE computer and harness and installed it to the car. Now it has even more pep, and redlines at 7,000 RPM. With the Euro cam, GA16DE intake manifold and Headers it really comes alive, and I am worried about my brakes being insufficient 

I am sure many of you are thinking after all I have done I should have just put a GA16DE in the car, and you may be right but all in all if I were to do this mod to my 89 Sentra I still would do it this way, because I can keep most of the stock parts, just swap out the Intake manifold and computer.

More info to come 
Bob


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## ahardb0dy (Nov 9, 2003)

Nice work !! I thought I had read some where that the GA16i and GA16DE use the same engine block only the manifold and heads are different?? Would this swap be easier if you could swap the head and manifold from the DE engine??


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

ahardb0dy said:


> Nice work !! I thought I had read some where that the GA16i and GA16DE use the same engine block only the manifold and heads are different?? Would this swap be easier if you could swap the head and manifold from the DE engine??


I remember reading that too, and was thinking the same thing. I do remember hearing that the rods and pistons were different between them. I know that the DE head uses a different timing chain cover and timing components. I think other than that I would be able to do a head and manifold and computer swap to make a GA16I into a GA16DE
It would be good to get conformation about the pistons and rods.


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## B12Chris (Dec 14, 2011)

Pics no worky  

I'm kinda' getting interested in this. I had my mind set turbo with Yamaha RX1 carbs, but I know that with carbs my MPG will suffer a good bit being tuned for turbo (i.e. stays rich all the time).


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Long story short the Pulsar with GA16E is running great! But now is waaaaay on the back burner! I got married in June 2011 and my son was born April 2012. I now drive my 1989 sentra (better family car) and it might be a long while before I do much more to this project. I also now live in a townhome with covenents and HOA and nowhere to work on cars so I am very limmited to what I can do  
GA16DE and GA16I uses the same block as far as I know. just a different head, pistons rods and timing junk. If I had time LOL I would swap a GA16DE head onto my sentra and continue the project with my sentra.


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## Regibus (Jul 8, 2006)

ahardb0dy said:


> Nice work !! I thought I had read some where that the GA16i and GA16DE use the same engine block only the manifold and heads are different?? Would this swap be easier if you could swap the head and manifold from the DE engine??


This is exactly what I am planning to do...

Ya, I lived in a townhouse with those restrictions... not fun for car stuffs...


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Jst an update, all systems are still a go on the GA16E in the pulsar. It still runs great! I ended up giving the Pulsar away to my brother who was in need of a car, so I bought a new project car, a 1989 Nissan Sentra 2 door with only 59,000 original miles! The plan is to do this same swap plus some more work on the induction system. It seems that the 89-90 B12s have died lately, and most people have moved on. I wonder how man B12 owners are still around and interested in simple mods?
If there is enough interest I can post up some of my recent discoveries and tuning mods that I will be doing on the 2 door Sentra


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## ahardb0dy (Nov 9, 2003)

Glad to see you back !!

Just sold my 90 B12, step daughters BF asked me what I wanted for it and I told him $1K and he said ok, so, he just made the last payment ( he asked to split it into 3 payments), so it's there's now.

Also sold my 94 pathfinder a few weeks ago,

I'm Nissanless ( and vehicle less) right now ! Just got my wife a 2012 Mazda 3 so I'm using that to get to work until I can find a truck.

Looking for a 94-97 Hardbody king cab, 2wd, 5 speed 4 cylinder,

Anyway good to see you with a new project and a low mileage B12 too !! Good Find !!


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## Rapmaster W (Jan 10, 2005)

I rarely post here, but just to let you folks know that my 1990 2door is still going strong at 450 000 km! I have been driving this car for 10 years now and still love it every time I get in. 

Please keep us updated Bob! I'd love to do this swap some day.


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## Galimba1 (Aug 16, 2002)

Mr. bob89sentra sir, 

wondering if you still come around these parts. I was curious, what kind of gas mileage do you get with all 4 injectors shooting gas at the same time. Still better than 25? I was about to try this, but then stopped driving my sentra for a while.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

In the Pulsar the average mileage in the city has been ~38 MPG and on the Highway I average ~46 MPG. It was getting 30MPG in the city before and 34 MPG on the highway before I did this swap. My sentra is getting about the same and I have not done this swap yet, but I have done some other mods for increased horsepower. Depending on your desires/ budget/ time, you could do this swap and gain some power and mileage.


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## Galimba1 (Aug 16, 2002)

Question due to my laziness and I don't want to break more things on my car...

My GA16i is having some rough days where idle goes extremely low, and I get loss of power at speed. Basically I push harder on the accelerator, and the car kind of stumbles instead of smoothly increasing RPM. Plug wires all look good (replaced recently). Decent compression across all cylinders.

How do I get the MAF off easily? Or how much of the throttle body do I disassemble to get to it? I noticed someone on this thread replaced the whole intake system so I came here first. Can't find good disassembly instructions studying the Service Manual.

- that guy with a PCV/ABS intake


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

Galimba1,
There are only a few things that would cause your symptoms from my experience, the MAF (AFM) is one of those, bad fuel filter, fuel regulator or fuel pump, and ignition is the other.
The AFM is accessed by removing the upper and lower air filter housings and then there are two Phillips head screws on the passenger side of the Throttle body to remove the AFM.

If you can check fuel pressures while the ending is running, you should be at least 46 Psi at all times. 
Even if your plug wires are brand new, I would take a bottle of soapy water (windex works great) and put it on stream and spray around the spark plugs and wires and distributor cap when it is dark. you will see if there is a problem. I have found that even new plug wires can have issues that give you stumbling issues.

From my experience 99% of the time your symptoms arise it is because of spark plugs, wires, distributor cap, or rotor issues.


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## Galimba1 (Aug 16, 2002)

I'm looking into moving the MAF. Did you frankenstein a GA16DE MAF into the GA16i harness? 

PS. Idle magically delicious again . . . I'll have to spend more time and effort on getting good airflow into the MAF. 3D printed TBI spacers? Yes please (for fit tests only, of course)


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

I put the GA16DE MAF into my car. The only hiccup is that the GA16i MAF harness has two extra connections that are needed that the GA16DE sensor does not have (but the same connector is used). 

The way I got around that was to put a resistor in between the two unused wires in the harness. I had about 5 spare MAFs for the old GA16i throttle body and I measured the resistance of each and they were within 3% of each other. Then I soldered in an equivalent resistor. Most resistors have a tolerance of 5% so I just went through a pile of them to find one that was the closest to the mean value. Basically, the GA16i sensor has a POT (adjustable resistor) behind a round metal cover that was used to calibrate the sensor. This resistance told the computer what the offsets were for that particular sensor. Since the GA16DE sensor does not have that I made an assumption that the offsets would be close to the same between sensor.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

As for your throttle body spacers, you can use the mixture preheater spacer and cut out the little basket and honeycomb heater element. I actually did this on my sentra, and the air flow improved a lot. The only negative I noticed was in the winter when first starting it was a little temperamental. If you have several mixture heater units you could cut the heater elements out and space the throttle body up by about 1/4" at a time.


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## bob89sentra (Sep 15, 2005)

*More updates*

So it has been a long time since I have posted on here, but I have some updates.
I gave the Pulsar to my brother and about a year ago he stopped driving it. There is some kind of bug in the DE computer system that I have not had time to identify, so it just sits in my parents driveway for now. 

I did this swap again on my daily driver 1989 Sentra 2 years ago (No headers, but NISMO eurosport cam). The past two years have been crazy busy with my getting my mechanical engineering degree, so I never got around to posting much, but the beast runs very strong.

Anyhow, for those who follow this swap, I chose to modify a DE manifold like it did for the Pulsar, and I stuck with the Sentra stock computer. The gremlins that appeared with the Pulsar throttle right around idle were a combination of the TPS being adjusted wrong, the idle air control being adjusted wrong, and my custom TPS with adjustable offset from the cabin of the car was adjusted out of range (advances ignition timing up to 20 extra degrees at low RPM). basically think of it as you open the throttle the idle switch (part of the TPS) says I am still idling, and when I reach 1/8 throttle all of a sudden the switch says I am not in idle mode, so it starts reading TPS signal. The TPS signal says that I have the throttle open further than just off idle, and I would get a bucking surge. This would happen all the time when I was cruising, because it was right in the range of throttle where I would have it while cruising. After a few adjustments it is smooth, and very powerful from 3500 RPM and above. I wish I could find some headers for this car, because it is a little less powerful at lower rpms, where the Pulsar has no noticeable lag below 3500 RPM, and that really was the only difference between the two engines.


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