# Loud Rattle from Engine Bay - Help!



## PhxJosh (Jun 27, 2009)

I posted before about this issue, but it has gotten much worse now. 

I have a very loud rattle at low speeds (parking lots, red lights, idle, etc) coming from the front passenger side of my engine bay. I traced the noise to somewhere near the alternator or fans, but it could possibly be lower, maybe a pulley? 

Nothing looks loose, I felt around with the engine running and nothing is really vibrating more than usual, I can't exactly trace the noise to more than just this general area. 

The noise has gotten much louder the last few days, it gets slightly louder/faster when I accelerate through parking lots, gets louder with higher RPMS. 

When I am driving at 25+ I can't even hear the noise, most likely due to driving noise, but at low speeds the noise is intolerable, draws plenty of attention. 

I am going to get a video posted here in the next few hours of the noise and shots of the engine bay, hopefully this helps. 

Any ideas? My fiancee just got laid off so money is tight, looking to do this myself hopefully!


----------



## PhantomSunny (Apr 22, 2007)

What engine is in the car? In the GA series noises in that area would probably be a pulley. The GAs have an idler pulley that is really low in the engine bay and is prone to failure from water damage especially where the engine underguards have been damaged or removed. But bear in mind that the a/c compressor also has a pulley and bearings that can also fail. Is the noise present with the a/c off? Does it get less when the a/c is on? Does it go away when the a/c is off? If yes to any of the foregoing you can start there and then move to other components. You should have at least two belts one runs the water pump & power steering, one runs the alternator (on some models) and one belt runs around that idler pulley the crank pulley and the A/C compressor. N.B. I have seen one engine where a single belt runs the alterator and a/c compressor but I think the owner may have modified the a/c compressor from another car to fit his. Don't rely on looks remove the belt and the idler pulley and examine the pulley and the bearings. To remove the pulley you need to loosen the big bolt on the side and the adjustment screww on the bracket holding it. In quite a few cases I've seen the bearings seize and the pulley gets damaged by turning around the seized bearing. If the bearing is able to shake any at all in the pulley or move side to side then you may have found your noise. You can also do some elimination testing with the a/c belt and idler pulley out of the car (if your engine has an independent belt for the alternator). Start the car without these components (make sure your a/c switch is off). No noise then you have isolated the trouble to either your a/c compressor bearing or idler pulley. Still have the noise then time to look at other things namely the alternator.


----------



## topz (May 15, 2006)

How many miles you got? It's most likely the upper timing chain tensioner if you got decent amount of miles. There's a forum sticky on how to replace it. Check it out.


----------



## PTXer (Aug 31, 2006)

Like I already told you, could be your water pump. Take that belt off and briefly start the car. If noise gone, that's it. Soon you will be able to hear it at speed. If you are driving and hear it stop, get where you're going fast, the pump probably just let go....


----------



## PhxJosh (Jun 27, 2009)

I traced the noise to a loose pulley, it's the uppermost pulley near the front motor mount, when the car runs it wobbles, and it feels loose. 

What is this connected to, my water pump? I traced the power steering line to whatever it's connected to, so I thought maybe its the PS pump?


----------



## PhantomSunny (Apr 22, 2007)

The two top pulleys are the water pump and the power steering pump.Standing at the right fender looking at the engine the water pump is in the middle of the engine looking as if its attached to the engine block. The power steering is closer to the firewall but at about the same height as the water pump. The water pump pulley is held on by 4 screws the power steering pulley has one large bolt holding it on.


----------



## PTXer (Aug 31, 2006)

If its the one closest to the motor mount, its the water pump. There's no bearings on that pulley to go bad, just the pump itself. 5 bolts around the pump and three more at the the thermostat housing. Just a pain to get all around the AC lines. Block and brace the motor and take the upper motor mount off for better access. I replaced the thermostat, radiator hoses, and belt since it was all apart.


----------



## PhantomSunny (Apr 22, 2007)

Try tightening the pulley first. As PTXer said there is no bearing. I'm not convinced the pump is bad though since it would usually leak like crazy if it were. It may be just the pulley has come loose over time. If the pulley can't be tightened then your only option is to change it out and the job is a pain.


----------



## PhxJosh (Jun 27, 2009)

PTXer said:


> If its the one closest to the motor mount, its the water pump. There's no bearings on that pulley to go bad, just the pump itself. 5 bolts around the pump and three more at the the thermostat housing. Just a pain to get all around the AC lines. Block and brace the motor and take the upper motor mount off for better access. I replaced the thermostat, radiator hoses, and belt since it was all apart.


It's the pulley closer to the front of the car with 4 bolts, so it must be the water pump. I am going to try and tighten the bolts and see if that helps. 



PhantomSunny said:


> Try tightening the pulley first. As PTXer said there is no bearing. I'm not convinced the pump is bad though since it would usually leak like crazy if it were. It may be just the pulley has come loose over time. If the pulley can't be tightened then your only option is to change it out and the job is a pain.


I am not leaking anything, I haven't had to add 50/50 in a while. I am going to try to tighten and see if that helps.


----------



## PTXer (Aug 31, 2006)

It would be best if you loosened the belt a little before trying to tighten the pulley. Just so it sits where its suposed to (if it is loose). Mine rattled away for quite a long time before it let loose and started leaking.


----------



## PhxJosh (Jun 27, 2009)

PTXer said:


> It would be best if you loosened the belt a little before trying to tighten the pulley. Just so it sits where its suposed to (if it is loose). Mine rattled away for quite a long time before it let loose and started leaking.


Alright, I am heading out to tighten the bolts now. If this doesn't help, do I need to look into a new pulley, or new waterpump?

The pump is $35 at autozone, but looks like it won't be fun to replace due to it's location.

The rattle has gotten progressively worse, so I am hoping I can make it a few more days before it goes out on me.


----------



## PTXer (Aug 31, 2006)

There is nothing that can really go bad with the pulley (unless it was loose from the water pump and messed up the holes). Most likely it is the water pump. You'll know when it goes out on you if the rattling stops. Then you'll smell the coolant as it drains out the shaft. Just don't drive it too far when that happens so you don't overheat the motor. It is a pain to do because of its position, but technically not that complicated. If you get it done before it totally goes out, it will save you the cost of a tow.


----------



## PhxJosh (Jun 27, 2009)

PTXer said:


> There is nothing that can really go bad with the pulley (unless it was loose from the water pump and messed up the holes). Most likely it is the water pump. You'll know when it goes out on you if the rattling stops. Then you'll smell the coolant as it drains out the shaft. Just don't drive it too far when that happens so you don't overheat the motor. It is a pain to do because of its position, but technically not that complicated. If you get it done before it totally goes out, it will save you the cost of a tow.


Alright, I went and looked at waterpumps, they had one for $25 that was standard, and one for $35 which was aluminum, which is better, is it worth the extra $10? 

I haven't been driving much, but I needed to use it for work today, only 5 mile each way drive, it's gotten quiter which worries me, but it's not leaking yet. 

How hard is this to replace? Any guides anywhere? 

I have replaced waterpumps on other cars easily, such as my 78 chevy truck, 95 accord, but this one looks complicated due to it's location. 

I assume I need gaskets too, and that sealant?


----------



## PhantomSunny (Apr 22, 2007)

Sorry for the late reply. Just in case you haven't done the job yet...Based on the age of the car I would go with the cheaper option unless you plan to keep it for lots more years. The all aluminium won't rust. The job is a pain not because of technical challenge but because the part is in such a precarious place. The RTV grey silicone is the gasket so you need a tube. You will need to loosen the power steering pump and get it out of the way so that you can access the screws on the thermostat housing. For better access you will need to probably also remove the front engine mount and the support bar and jack the engine as far up as it will go without damaging the other mounts. The thermostat cover is attached to the thermostat housing with 3 screws and the housing is attached to the pump by 4 screws. There are also 2 or 3 hoses that attach to the housing and some of the removal and replacing of these is by feel only or actually going under the car. The pump is attached to the engine by 5 screws (I think there is a long one so mark where it goes). The pump bolts to the engine after running a silicone bead around the groove and screw holes. The outlet of the pump is siliconed in the groove before attaching the housing. The thermostat is replaced and the cover siliconed and attached to the housing. The hoses ae refited and clamped and the power steering pump put back in place. The mount is replaced and you are good to go. Budget about 2 or 3 hours for the job.


----------



## PhxJosh (Jun 27, 2009)

PhantomSunny said:


> Sorry for the late reply. Just in case you haven't done the job yet...Based on the age of the car I would go with the cheaper option unless you plan to keep it for lots more years. The all aluminium won't rust. The job is a pain not because of technical challenge but because the part is in such a precarious place. The RTV grey silicone is the gasket so you need a tube. You will need to loosen the power steering pump and get it out of the way so that you can access the screws on the thermostat housing. For better access you will need to probably also remove the front engine mount and the support bar and jack the engine as far up as it will go without damaging the other mounts. The thermostat cover is attached to the thermostat housing with 3 screws and the housing is attached to the pump by 4 screws. There are also 2 or 3 hoses that attach to the housing and some of the removal and replacing of these is by feel only or actually going under the car. The pump is attached to the engine by 5 screws (I think there is a long one so mark where it goes). The pump bolts to the engine after running a silicone bead around the groove and screw holes. The outlet of the pump is siliconed in the groove before attaching the housing. The thermostat is replaced and the cover siliconed and attached to the housing. The hoses ae refited and clamped and the power steering pump put back in place. The mount is replaced and you are good to go. Budget about 2 or 3 hours for the job.


Wow, thanks for the reply! This doesn't sound much harder than replacing my starter, I think I can do it. 

What is RTV silacone? Is that the typical gasket silicone? I have a tube from when I did my waterpump a few years back on my truck, but I am not sure if it's still good .


----------



## PTXer (Aug 31, 2006)

Use Ultra Grey RTV silicone. If that tube is a few years old, I wouldn't risk using it. Don't go overboard with it since these are machined surfaces (most of it will be squeezed out). Give it a good 12-24 hours after you put it together to cure up before you refill the system. Again, maybe want to do your hoses and thermostat while its drained and apart. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## PhxJosh (Jun 27, 2009)

PTXer said:


> Use Ultra Grey RTV silicone. If that tube is a few years old, I wouldn't risk using it. Don't go overboard with it since these are machined surfaces (most of it will be squeezed out). Give it a good 12-24 hours after you put it together to cure up before you refill the system. Again, maybe want to do your hoses and thermostat while its drained and apart. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.


I am going to do the thermostat and hoses at the same time, as well as the motor mount. 

So I can't drive the car for 12-24 hours? That might be a problem since I work 6 days a week..


----------



## PTXer (Aug 31, 2006)

The longer you can let the silicone RTV cure the better. Use it on the hoses too.


----------



## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

It will firm up in 20mins to an hour. tighten it down and it should be fine.
I dont think you have to wait 12- 24 hours, it just gets to its full set condition then. 
chose a product that says you can drive sooner !!!


----------



## slavrenz (Apr 16, 2010)

PTXer said:


> The longer you can let the silicone RTV cure the better. *Use it on the hoses too.*


I've never heard of anyone doing this, and I think it's really unnecessary unless you have deep gouges in your hose necks.

Hose clamps do a more than adequate job of sealing.


----------



## PTXer (Aug 31, 2006)

My upper hose (brand new, with new clamps) leaked (dripped) at both the radiator and the motor. No gouges and I even ran steel wool over the surfaces. Used a little RTV and no more drips.


----------

