# Considering a HCR32 91 GTS-t type M



## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

I have found a 91 R32 GTS-t w/ 70K km and it has been worked pretty hard. They're asking $2500 FOB Japan. The type M is basically the GT-R bodywork on a standard GTS-t chassis. I can do the registration and certification on my own and have a local company do the DOT/EPA compliance inspection for me. The shipping, documentation, insurance and customs bond (until compliance) would be several thousand more. Or I can just bring it over as an exhibition vehicle and then just build a race car since it would never be able to run on the street. Thoughts and Ideas.?. 









Troy


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## danifilth (May 14, 2003)

Sorry bro I replied no.It sounds like you have quite a hookup on the whole legalization process,if so I would get an BNR33 or 32 it would still come quite cheaply to you.Perhaps you will help out some forum members on gettin Skyline legal?j/k


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## 1990BNR32 (Aug 17, 2003)

KA24Tech said:


> I have found a 91 R32 GTS-t w/ 70K km and it has been worked pretty hard. They're asking $2500 FOB Japan. The type M is basically the GT-R bodywork on a standard GTS-t chassis. I can do the registration and certification on my own and have a local company do the DOT/EPA compliance inspection for me. The shipping, documentation, insurance and customs bond (until compliance) would be several thousand more. Or I can just bring it over as an exhibition vehicle and then just build a race car since it would never be able to run on the street. Thoughts and Ideas.?.
> 
> Troy


there is no local company that can do the compliance and inspection work for you. don't mislead yourself to believe otherwise.


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

Do you work for an RI or did you just buy your GT-R from one. I ask because the most of the issues have been worked out by the companies like MotorRex for a Importation of "Grey Market" vehicles. With the R32 the factory has already utilized many of the components to bring a vehicle into the US (i.e. the door reinforcement bar and Type 1 glass, etc) that they didn't only a few years before. Many things which made it difficult to bring a car back from overseas in the 80's are no longer applicable. Compliance is the easy part and the inspection only has to be documented with photos and a bunch of paperwork. You know, I'm not here to put anybody out of business I'm only bringing a car in for my own personal enjoyment that will be well above the standard for safety and emissions of most any car manufactured in that era. Building cars is what I have done for 20 years both in the US and Japan, although not necessarily as a full time occupation for some of those years but I guarantee there have been more than full time hours devotedfor everyone of them. If anything the Importers will benefit because I will look to them for parts and other services. Its not quantum mechanics its only a car. I guess what I am getting to is don't be too condescending if you don't what I am capable of. The question was "Would you buy a 91 Skyline GTS-t for a total investment of $10K?" Not, "Am I fooling myself that I can really be driving a legal Skyline here for $10K?" I do appreciate your concern though, Thank you.

Troy


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## 1990BNR32 (Aug 17, 2003)

Please do some homework here:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/

A skyline can only be legally entered into the US on the bond of a Registered Importer who will conform the car to all DOT standards for the year it was manufactured, and on the bond of an Independent Commercial Importer (ICI) who will conform the car to EPA standards. You can find the list of RI's there on the site I listed above. Try calling any of them and asking them if they will comply a Skyline for you and see what they say. Most if not all will say no way, but you might find one that says ok.

I was lied to by an RI here in Utah that swore to me up and down that they could comply my R32. They had it for 4+ months and they didn't do jack to it because they were in way over their heads and realized that they could attempt to do the necessary work to it, but unless it was done *EXACTLY* the same way the cars were done in the original petition for eligibility by JK Motoring (& Motorex) then NHTSA would not ever give bond release on the car. That's just the DOT/NHTSA side of things. I had to confiscate my car from the RI that had it, and it has to be exported now so customs will not confiscate it from me. I will be re-importing it when I can confidently give it to an RI that knows what they are doing and who will successfully gain a bond release on the vehicle.

So basically what I'm trying to tell you is that not just any joe schmoe can do the compliance work to the car like you seem to think is possible. you will not even be able to bring the car into the country unless it's on the bond of an RI, or unless it's done illegally. if you do bring it in illegally you might be able to register it in your state, but that doesn't make it federally legal and you will always have to worry about the federal gov't confiscating your car.

up to you. by the way, $10k for a r32 gtst is a lot of money. I bought my 90 GT-R for $8650 FOB Port Everglades.

-T


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

Ok I apologize for my last post. I seemed to come off a little like an "a" hole. I thank you for the link, although I already have read everything from the NHTSA's web site and requested additional information. I know that under 49 U.S.C.30141(a)(1)(B) the petition has already been brought forward by the RI(s) to establish that the Skyline can be altered to comply with all Federal motor vehicle safety standards and I have that booklet. I requested a copy of that petition so that I can fully understand what is involved as well. I happen to have a very good connection at a RI that is listed as well as considering becoming an RI myself. Also, I can get around a couple of loop holes by not importing it for resale, which I'm not. This is how our military and civil service personnel returning from stations overseas can bring back a motor vehicle without the same regulations applying.
I think it is unfortunate that you were deceived by the folks at the RI in Utah but I guess at times we trust that a company will actually do the job they promised to do. I hope that you contacted the BBB and reported what they did to you. I am quite aware that not just any schmoe can complete the work for full compliance and the inspection release. When I said The company was local I didn't mean necessarily in the same state but let's just say they are less than 2000 miles away. I also have the option of setting it up for importation under the racing vehicle exclusion and then doing the compliance certification at a later date as well as importing one under show or display, although that would not be applicable for this particular model.
Oh and the $10K that would be the total for the car purchase, importation, compliance, inspection(s), refurbishing, modifying, and refinishing the car to make it a nice all around driver.
I wish you better luck with the next go around.

Troy


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## GTES-t (Jan 2, 2004)

KA24Tech said:


> I requested a copy of that petition so that I can fully understand what is involved as well.


Here's where you can get the petition, go to this DOT site:
http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchFormSimple.cfm
Under Docket Search, make sure Docket Number is selected on the left and type 5507 in the right and click search. 
Only thing is there are structural modifications that must be done to get the vehicle into compliance that are not stated in the petition for privacy issues so that no one but Motorex knows what they are. (Good decision on their part business wise) So, for another RI to do the import, they have to modify one and crash test it to verify that they can get into compliance.




KA24Tech said:


> Also, I can get around a couple of loop holes by not importing it for resale, which I'm not. This is how our military and civil service personnel returning from stations overseas can bring back a motor vehicle without the same regulations applying.


There are no loopholes! I'm in the military and have checked out every possiblity, and the only way to get bring a Skyline back is through Motorex. (I've heard RBMotoring now also, who got permission and works with Motorex) For me to ship my Skyline back, before it can even be shipped I MUST have a contract and reciept for a minimum deposit of $5000 (basicly the cost of the Bond the previous post mentioned) to a registered RI that can import that vehicle. This is even tighter requirements for anyone who can order one and have it shipped without that!




KA24Tech said:


> I also have the option of setting it up for importation under the racing vehicle exclusion and then doing the compliance certification at a later date as well as importing one under show or display, although that would not be applicable for this particular model.


No, you really don't. To have it brought in under the race requirements, you have to have a race license, proof that it's a race vehicle (previous wins, etc.) a list of the modifications that have been done to make it race only (and therefore never eligible to be street legal) and a schedule of races it is to attend.
As far as the show car, that will never happen, there is a VERY short list of vehicles allowed to come in as a show car and they will never even consider the Skyline as coming in that way because it can be converted to US requirements.
Both of these options require appling to the NHSTA for approval which they very rarely approve!

You do need to listen to 1990BNR32, and his experience, and check into this more and you DO need to read the import guidelines he posted the link to!
Here it is again... READ!!!!
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/

Under 'What vehicles can be imported' read 'Show and Display' and 'Information for Racing.' You're going to find out that what you're planning to do will not work. If you don't check all of this out your going to learn the hard way when your Skyline is at the docks getting crushed!

BTW: The Type M is not a GTR body on a GTS-t chassis. Granted they are very simular in appearance, but the wide body of the GTR can't be duplicated on the GTS-t without getting a full rear quarter panel sized blister kit for the rear and GTR front end. The GTS-t Type M has the same body as all the other non-GTR 2dr Skylines. 
The type M has the 5 lug 5 spoke 16" wheels (as seen in the picture), uprated brakes and rotors (over the other R32 Skylines, not the GTR), a slightly different front bumper (as shown in the picture), a sportier steering wheel and several GTS/GTS-t options are standard (vLSD, Hicas, Speed sensitive front spoiler) 
The rear spoiler in the picture is a GTR type that the Type M did not come from the factory with but is a popular conversion to do in Japan.


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

Thanks for the lecture but you could have at least voted in the poll. 
At this point I am probably going to wait a while longer and then go over to pick out my R31 GTS-R which I know that qualifies under the Show and Display clause because of the rarity. I thought that doing a R32 would be easier and a less expensive way to have a fun driver. I really don't want a GT-R but if I needed to spend the 20K for the purchase of one over there, I would probably elect to get an R34 GT or spend some more to get a nice R32 V-Spec.
I have read thru much of the 547 pages under all of the 5507-1 thru 5507-7 petition documents although I did the advanced search a while ago under skyline. I wanted to request any additional information they may have been introduced since the last document in 2000. Surprisingly, not a lot has changed as far as what would be required when I was going to bring my Skyline back in 96. At that time I was on a DOD contract (with Orders) and I was afforded the right to bring a vehicle back after being over there for a year. I chose not to because a friend offered me more than I could pass up. I had just taken it thru JCI and as you probably know in many cases that is worth more than the car itself especially for a modified vehicle. 
JK Motoring did a lot to get Skylines here for certification for the purpose of resale and I commend them for pioneering the work on the Skyline. They compared major components with many of those on the Z32 300ZX TT. In comparion, I was intending to use many associations to the Z31 for the R31. 
Compliance procedures can't be guarded under the Privacy Act. They are under the NHTSA and have to available for viewing because they are public safety documents just like all regular manufactured US cars are. I don't believe in the smoke and mirrors and I especially don't believe what a lot people say can and can't be done on the net. I started building one of the first Altima turbos in the US back in 98 when many companies would have to send me prototypes and/or I would hand fabricate components so I could get it done, it was even my friend's car that he wanted to see if we could go turbo. 
I really do appreciate you guys cautioning me and your advice but I will worry about the ramifications of Uncle Sam on my own. Besides why would any of you really care if I brought a Skyline in unabashedly and they crushed it at the dock. Really, it is my perogative although I'm not that ignorant.

Troy


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## GTES-t (Jan 2, 2004)

Sorry I didn't vote, there wasn't a third option of not spending that much. I'd have voted no, but I'm not going to call the R32 GTS-t a mediocere car. It's far from being a mediocere car! I love mine and have no pride lost not owning a GTR. But I won't vote yes either because I wouldn't be willing to spend that much to get one. Mine is a '90 and I spent $3K to get it and have put about $2K into it in swaps and upgrades. I love the car to death, but I'm not going to spend more then what I know it's actually worth to get it to the US. That's why when I finally return, I won't have a Skyline again until they turn 25 years old and I can get one in without having to paying more then it's value to convert it.


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## 1990BNR32 (Aug 17, 2003)

KA24Tech said:


> JK Motoring did a lot to get Skylines here for certification for the purpose of resale and I commend them for pioneering the work on the Skyline. They compared major components with many of those on the Z32 300ZX TT. In comparion, I was intending to use many associations to the Z31 for the R31.
> Compliance procedures can't be guarded under the Privacy Act. They are under the NHTSA and have to available for viewing because they are public safety documents just like all regular manufactured US cars are. I don't believe in the smoke and mirrors and I especially don't believe what a lot people say can and can't be done on the net.


I agree with you on this. The Freedom of Information Act should provide us access to the compliance packets that Motorex has submitted to NHTSA, yet I have been told by 2 separate NHTSA employees that they regard the packets as falling under the petition for confidential treatment that NHTSA has with JK Motoring. I don't see how this can be the case, but I don't think any individual's attempt to obtain this info will be successful without the assistance of a lawyer.

You should be able to get an R31 GTS-R in without too much difficulty under the rare car exemption. Nissan should be able to provide with you with production numbers that show that such a limited quantity was produced that NHTSA could not deny you. I don't even think you'd need to show similarty between the R31 and the Z31. You'd only have to worry about EPA stuff.


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## GTES-t (Jan 2, 2004)

Compliance procedures can be kept private. Like you said, the safety documents can't be, and aren't, they're in the petition info I refered you to. That's all that is required to be released to the PUBLIC, info on how safe the vehicle is (crash test results), not what they had to do to make it. After all, how much actual engineering info does Ford, Chevy, etc. release, little to none. But all of their crash test info has to be and is public.
The NHTSA are the only people they have to reveal what exactly was done to make the vehicle safe so they can verify nothing else was affected and within the required tolerences.
As you said, I honestly don't care if you bring a car in and get it through or crushed. There is so much mis-information about how cars come to the US and how easy it is. When the fact is it's NOT! There have been so many people taking about how you can get a Skyline in without going through Motorex, and I have yet to find a single person who actually has. US Customs and DOT is VERY difficult to get vehicles through. A friend in Okinawa had to sell his '85 Camaro because the Title had been lost and he couldn't get another one. Because of that, his US SPEC Camaro would have to go through a RI for them to verify that it fit the US requirements!!! How stupid is that?! I'll tell you, US Government paperwork bureaucracy stupid, which is what makes even legal imports VERY long and difficult.


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## 1990BNR32 (Aug 17, 2003)

There are actually plenty of illegal skylines in the US. they are just brought in through customs as "parts only". 

Your friend shouldn't have that hard of a time with his camaro as long as it still has the manufacturer's DOT and EPA (did they have EPA labels back then)? He could also have the US title re-issued from the state in which it was last registered.


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## GTES-t (Jan 2, 2004)

That's just it, there is no 'parts only' import procedures for a vehicle. If the vehicle's chassis/body is intact it has to be legally imported, if it runs or doesn't. It's another piece of mis-information that goes around. The only way a vehicle can be brought in parts only, is to have the chassis cut (ie. a half cut). It's to destructive to the vehicle to try to put it back together, altough I know plenty of people who would try. They can have it and best of luck to them, including the luck required to get it on the street without a VIN.

As far as the Camaro, he bought it in '88. Got the title then, but it got lost when it was shipped to Japan. Now, if you've ever had to deal with getting records from a state I'm sure you know they tend to lose things. And what made it worse, was that they had paper records when he got it, and of course switched to computer databases and lost his title in the conversion.
He could have shipped it into a RI and have them do the checks for $2000. When it came down to it, he didn't want to waste that money on an '85 car. (just like I won't waste my money on importing my Skyline and paying 5x how much I initailly paid for it to convert it)

Here's an interesting link:
http://www.ustreas.gov/auctions/customs/vehicles.html
It's items that customs has confiscated and are auctioning off due to various reasons. If you take a look at the El Paso, Texas one, you'll see several vehicles WITH VIN's and even US models that are listed export only. That's because there is no information (title, etc) that it is a US Spec vehicle and they need to go through a RI to get them on the streets. Getting vehicles into the US is hard, even if they belong there or came from there, it's DOT'S and Custom's job to question that and make sure. If even one little thing is amiss, it sits on the docks like these.
The last auction LA had listed a Skyline GTS-t that was to be exported only, and if it didn't get auctioned off and shipped, it's probably crushed now. Unfortunately, someone probably listened to all of the mis-information, loopholes, etc, and thought it would be easy. Who knows, maybe if they crushed it they'll let him keep it as a very heavy coffee table.


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## TuxedoCartman (May 3, 2003)

1990BNR32 said:


> You should be able to get an R31 GTS-R in without too much difficulty under the rare car exemption. Nissan should be able to provide with you with production numbers that show that such a limited quantity was produced that NHTSA could not deny you. I don't even think you'd need to show similarty between the R31 and the Z31. You'd only have to worry about EPA stuff.


The rare car exemption applies to cars that are very, VERY rare. Cars like the McLaren F1 and the Jaguar XJ220. The government does not consider a rare, "limited edition" of a popular mass-produced car to be rare enough for importation.


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

VEHICLE ELIGIBILITY

In determining whether a vehicle is eligible for importation for show or display, NHTSA will consider the following factors, among others:

Whether a vehicle of the same make, model, and model year was manufactured and certified for sale in the United States. 
Whether a vehicle of the same make, model, and model year has been determined eligible for importation pursuant to 49 CFR Part 593. 
Whether the vehicle is currently in production. 
Whether more than 500 of the vehicles were produced. 
Whether the vehicle is a kit car, replica, or special construction vehicle.

If the answer to any of the above is affirmative, you should not expect NHTSA to grant permission for importation. If the answer to item 4 is affirmative, the applicant must establish that the vehicle is of exceptional technological and/or historical significance. 

HOW YOU MAY APPLY FOR PERMISSION TO IMPORT

Your signed application must include, at a minimum:


Your name, address, phone number, and FAX number. 
Vehicle identification – make, model, model year, VIN or chassis number, engine number, date of manufacture and mileage. 
Location where you will store the vehicle in the United States. 
Statement describing use on the public roads, if intended. If on-road use is requested, identify the Independent Commercial Importer (ICI) that will modify the vehicle to bring it into conformity with the requirements of the Environmental Protection Agency. 
Basis for the application. 
Attachments: 
Photographs – ¾ frontal, ¾ rear, interior, odometer reading and special features (if appropriate). 
Document from manufacturer or recognized historical source, identifying total production (production verification). 
Proof of insurance conditioned on limited on-road use (not more than 2,500 miles accumulated in any 12-month period). 
Identification of vehicle’s: 
Technological significance – You must identify (be specific) the technology, engineering, and construction features of the vehicle that are advanced and of an unusual nature not commonly found in motor vehicles manufactured in the same time period; or 
Historical significance – You must identify the historical significance of the vehicle. If a person of historical significance owned the vehicle, you must submit proof that this person owned the vehicle. If the vehicle was the first or last vehicle of a particular model, you must establish this through the manufacturer’s documentation or, if this is not available, through a recognized historical source. If the vehicle was "one of a kind," you must establish this also. 
Items of significance must be numerically listed followed by the reason why the item is of significance.

An application to import a vehicle for Show or Display is not required to include documentation to support the technological and/or historical significance of the vehicle, if the make, model, and model year of the vehicle has previously been determined eligible. All other information on the application is required. Vehicles previously determined eligible are listed below.

Audi Sport Quattro 1984 
Australian Ford Falcon XC Bathurst Cobra 1978 
BMW Z1 1988 - 1991 
Bugatti EB110 1992 - 1995 
Ford RS200 Evolution 1985 - 1986 
Ford Sierra Cosworth RS 500 1986 
Italdesign Aztec 1988 
Jaguar XJ220 1992 - 1994 
Lamborghini Diablo GT 1999 
McLaren F-1 1993 - 1998 
Mercedes Benz CLK-GTR Coupe 1998-1999 
Mercedes Benz CLK-GTR Roadster 2002 
Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 1984 - 1985 
Porsche 911 Carrera 4S (last made) 1998 
Porsche 959 1987, 1988 
Porsche 993 Carrera RS 1996 
Rover Mini Cooper S (last 50 made) 2000 

Based on the information presented, the vehicles identified below have been determined ineligible for importation for Show or Display.

Audi Avant RS2 1995 
Bancroft Roadster 1993 
Daimler-Chrysler Smart Car 2000 
Hesketh V1000 1980-1983 
Jaguar XJ 220 S (race car) 1993 
Land Rover Defender 130 2000-2001 
Lotus 340 R 2000 
Lotus Elise S1 1996-2001 
Morgan LeMans ’62 Prototype 2002 
Pegaso Z-103 1991 
Porsche 959 S (race car) 1989 
Porsche Carrera 4 Lightweight (race car) 1990 
Rover Mini Cooper 1995, 1998-2000 
Trabant 601-S 1981 
Trabant P601 1989 
Triumph Bonneville M/C 1981 
Volkswagen Beetle (Old Style) 2000 

With all this said, when I decide to bring in an R31 GTS-R I'm sure that if I contact a few people over at Nissan North America that they would be happy to help with the documentation for the technological and historical significance of that model, especially if I allow them to utilize it for marketing and promotional purposes. If a car company and others could benefit in a monetary sense, then I know it will happen a little more expediously. I would just be proud to have it especially after doing a complete restoration on it.
These are all just thoughts because I haven't even initiated anything... yet

Troy


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## HondaHater (Aug 27, 2003)

1990BNR32 said:


> Please do some homework here:
> 
> http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/
> 
> ...


i second that, you can get gtr's for 8650 like he, or 10k can get you one. but it's gonna be r32. r33 and r34 are higher.


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## Nizmodore (May 9, 2003)

Yeah a R31 GTS-R is VERY rare, only 800 made...../me bows down to the GTS-R owner, "I am not worthy"


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