# Moly, PAOs and Oil Additives



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

What exactly is the best additive if their is one? I understand that most oils use moly, and some are still claiming to formulate oil from PAOs (well specefically Amsoil). My buddy who is a mechanics assistant raves about this additive called Lucas that he mixes with Castrol. Royal Purple aparently uses moly, but I doubt that explains the odd change in color? Redline packs their oil with moly but their UOAs arent all that impressive, especially when relating to LDIs. What are the other normal additives or pieces that I am missing? I tried to cruise BITOG and got terribly lost. I guess I am out of whack with my oil knowledge.


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## I'm tired of my usernamee (Feb 16, 2004)

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm
check this, it will give you an idea about what the majority of additives will do to your oil.


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

91sentra said:


> http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm
> check this, it will give you an idea about what the majority of additives will do to your oil.


I was prettu sure Lucas was crap...my buddy preaches that it sticks to his gears but I was iffy about it. Now for the moly v. POA...is Bror Jace in the house?


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

dont know much about oil additives, but here's that info you wanted on Lucas

*Radioactiv*: we posted at the same time, lol. i figured i'd edit instead of add a new post. I use supertech oil, awesome stuff. its a great price(70 cents a quart) and is better than penzoil. werd


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## Radioaktiv (Feb 12, 2004)

Lubrication Engineers
http://www.le-inc.com/index2.cfm

been using thier 5W-30 (thanks to MrEous)

pretty bad ass stuff


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

_“What exactly is the best additive if their is one? I understand that most oils use moly, and some are still claiming to formulate oil from PAOs (well specifically Amsoil).”_

First, you have to differentiate between the _base oil(s)_ (mineral stocks, PAOs & esters) and _additives_ (zinc, phosphorous, moly, boron, calcium, etc …).

Group I-III are mineral base oils with I being the least refined and III being refined so heavily (hydrocracked, etc …) that many companies now call this ‘synthetic’ ... even if most BITOGians scoff at this. PAOs and alkylated aromatics are Group IV and esters are Group V base oils (both ‘authentic’ synthetics).

Contrary to what you’ll hear in some discussion groups, Mobil 1 is _still_ authentic synthetic oil ... mostly PAO, same as Amsoil. Red Line and NEO are mostly (if not entirely) ester.

_ “My buddy who is a mechanic’s assistant raves about this additive called Lucas that he mixes with Castrol.”_

Is he talking about their heavy-duty stabilizer? I was never a big fan of this stuff … but after seeing that BITOG demonstration, I wouldn’t use it if it were given to me for free. 

The best/simplest solution to getting a thicker engine lubricant is to simply start with a thicker grade of motor oil. 10W-40 instead of 5W-30 or 10W-30, etc ... However, the trend in the industry is to go with _thinner_, not thicker, engine oils. Thinner oils provide less hydrodynamic resistance (lower ‘pumping losses’) as the oil is pumped through the motor. This means more fuel economy and higher horsepower. 

Old school racing oils were super thick to prevent wear … even straight 50 weights. Now, just look at the racing oils offered by Red Line. They even offer super light qualifying oils for just a couple hot laps with the least amount of horsepower lost to the drag of a heavy oil.

But then people debate how thin is _too thin_? This rages everywhere in the industry … and especially at BITOG. It seems obvious to me that more and better barrier wear additives are compensating for the thinner hydrodynamic barrier (thicker films of oil). Look at the 5W-20 motor oils for Hondas which have twice the moly of most motor oils 

And, of course, every engine is different … and even identical engines can see very different usage.

If you care about your motor, its best to do UOAs until you see a consistent pattern and you find an oil which works well for you ...

… at which time the company will conveniently alter their formulation, of course. 

_“Royal Purple apparently uses moly, but I doubt that explains the odd change in color?”_

Royal Purple’s color is a marketing gimmick. It is an unstable dye added for ‘kewl’ cosmetic purposes only. Their oil is mostly PAO with a significant amount of mineral oil added as carrier oil used to mix in the additive package. You can see most of their additives in UOAs/VOAs of this oil at BITOG ... although no one I know of is sure what their mysterious ingredient “Synerlec” is.

I prefer Mobil 1 to RP. And despite Mobil 1 starting out thinner, it stays in grade better. I believe RP shears down quickly in order to offer the user more power and fuel economy ... but what about wear? In all but oil-friendly Subaru engines, UOAs are mixed.

_“Red Line Oil packs their oil with moly but their UOAs aren’t all that impressive, especially when relating to LDIs.”_

LDIs?  It is theorized by some that the polyol esters Red Line (known to act as powerful cleaners ... maybe _too powerful_) chemically scour the internal parts of the engine ... and this effect shows up in UOAs and might negate the added protection of the moly. Polyol esters flow at well below zero and can withstand temps of 700+ (both Fahrenheit) but can even most _high performance drivers_ take advantage of those abilities, especially the latter?

For these reasons, I don’t use Red Line’s motor oils, just their gear oils and SI-1 fuel injector cleaner (sparingly).

For motor oils, I think Schaeffer has been the most consistent in UOAs … with Chevron and Pennzoil very close behind ... and quite economical, too.


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Thanks. This brings everything into a bit more perspective. I abbreviated LID for long drain interval...mainly because I am a lazy typer. Chevron makes a good product of virtually anything and I have always been happy with their stuff. I would prefer to run Schaeffers over anything, but I cannot find sellers who will sell in somewhat smaller quantities.

edit: and yeah...he was talking about the crap that BITOG ran and turned good oil into a milkshake. I'll be sure to show him that...


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## sarsourus (Apr 8, 2005)

Zac said:


> Thanks. This brings everything into a bit more perspective. I abbreviated LID for long drain interval...mainly because I am a lazy typer. Chevron makes a good product of virtually anything and I have always been happy with their stuff. I would prefer to run Schaeffers over anything, but I cannot find sellers who will sell in somewhat smaller quantities.
> 
> edit: and yeah...he was talking about the crap that BITOG ran and turned good oil into a milkshake. I'll be sure to show him that...


okay i have a 05 spec v with 1300 miles on it? what type of oil should i put and what type of tranny oil do u recommend i put. i want the less wear more horspower feature. atleast what comes close. what do you recommend ?


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

_"Okay I have an '05 SpecV with 1,300 miles on it. What type of oil should I put (in it)?" _

Anything ... and make sure you change it at 2,500 - 3,000 miles for the first 10,000 miles. Then consider extending the interval to 4,000 miles or more.

_"What type of tranny oil do you recommend I put (in it)?"_

Do a search of this forum using the words "tranny," "synchro," etc ...

_"I want the less wear, more horsepower."_ 

Join the club ... EVERYONE wants that. Do several searches of this forum using oil brand names as well as the word "synthetic" and READ.


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Bror;
It appears the closest weight Chevron makes that will work for our car is 10W30. I have never ran a 10W30 during Maryland winters, but my car is garaged when not in usage. Considering the rated pour point is much, much colder than it will ever get close to being here, do you think I could run this year round? Also, any info I have found on their full synthetic seems to be ambigous...even on BITOG; is this still made and is it made in other weights?

http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/ehl/01_engine_oils.htm

I'm not too far from just using Chevron dino and cheaper oil filters as UOAs are showing this stuff to be better than most blends and even better than most synthetics. If I can find it for cheap, I'll start using it.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

I can get this stuff in just a couple local Walmarts in 5W-30, 10W-30 as well as 10W-40.

Yeah, in your area, I'd use it just about year 'round. 

I bought my '03 at the end of March, ran the car 1 month and used Chevron 10W-40 for the next two months before letting the dealership give me my "first" oil change for free.

It wasn't the weight I wanted ... but it was all I could find when I went to give the beast its first oil change. I didn't have it tested, but I'm sure it was fine.


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## sarsourus (Apr 8, 2005)

Bror Jace said:


> I can get this stuff in just a couple local Walmarts in 5W-30, 10W-30 as well as 10W-40.
> 
> Yeah, in your area, I'd use it just about year 'round.
> 
> ...


i have a 05 spec v with 1400 miles on it, and i get confused with all this oil mumbo jumbo, it still has original oil since when i got it, i wanna go synthetic but i know u can't just changeit directly at this mileage. now can somone tell me if this was there car what would they do and what type of tranny oil they would put?
thanx


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

*sarsourus*: _"I have a '05 SpecV with 1,400 miles on it, and I get confused with all this oil mumbo jumbo. It still has (the) original oil since when I got it. I wanna go synthetic but I know you can't just change it directly at this mileage."_

Incorrect. You can use synthetic in a new motor. The 'fact' that you can't is a tired myth. 

_"Now, can someone tell me if this was their car what would they do and what type of tranny oil they would put?"_

Any brand of 5W-30 oil will be fine in your motor. If you want to use Mobil 1, Amsoil, etc ... that's fine too. I like Chevron Supreme and pennzoil ... changed fairly often until you hit 10,000 miles.

As for the tranny lubricant, can someone tell *sarsourus* how to perform a simple forum search? 

Hint: try using the phrase: "75W-85" or words like "tranny," "gears," and "syncro."


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

My local Chevron station sells their 5W30 dino for $2.25 a quart. I may just change using that if they well sell cheaper in bulk.


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## sarsourus (Apr 8, 2005)

Bror Jace said:


> *sarsourus*: _"I have a '05 SpecV with 1,400 miles on it, and I get confused with all this oil mumbo jumbo. It still has (the) original oil since when I got it. I wanna go synthetic but I know you can't just change it directly at this mileage."_
> 
> Incorrect. You can use synthetic in a new motor. The 'fact' that you can't is a tired myth.
> 
> ...


believe me i did make a search, but too many opinions and too many different views i don't know where to go, if u can just tell me what kind of tranny oil u woould use if this was ur car i won't bother to reply so many times


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

OK, here's what I use in my tranny:

http://www.specialtyformulations.com/index_files/page625.htm

Better than the Red Line MTL/MT-90 mix I used before this.


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