# BROQUET IN-TANK FUEL CATALYST



## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

CURIOUSLY, HAS ANYONE FITTED THIS AND HAS THERE BEEN A MARKED IMPROVEMENT IN 
EITHER PERFORMANCE OR FUEL CONSUMPTION.


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## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

*DUH ??*



LEONGSTER said:


> CURIOUSLY, HAS ANYONE FITTED THIS AND HAS THERE BEEN A MARKED IMPROVEMENT IN
> EITHER PERFORMANCE OR FUEL CONSUMPTION.


What is it ?? Do you have a pic ?? What's it supposed to do ??


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

It's a tin-based invention that supposedly alters the state of petrol in way that improves power and fuel economy. An uncle of mine fitted it to his old Mazda 929 and it ran for about 20 years after that on lower octance Unleaded fuel with no pinking problems.

It comes in a sack you drop into your fuel tank. Or as an in-line cannister that attaches along your fuel line.

I'm curious to know of any other cases our there that may have fitted it to a properly run-in engine with good results.

Here's the website anyway: www.broquet.com.

There are similar products known as FuelCat, Fitch Fuel Catayser...


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## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

Thanks for the info. Obviously, I've not used it so can't comment on this specific product.

I visited their site (thanks for the link) but did not see a price for the product.

Generally speaking, I think the experience of most members with products similar to this one, that claim to improve fuel consumption and increase performance, would be that the best part of their product is usually the sales pitch.

That being said, this particular Company has been in business a long time (since 1941) so folks must be buying and using their product - - not much hope of "repeat" business though, given their claim of how long the product remains effective.

IF the price were "reasonable" it wouldn't hurt to give it a try....with the price of fuel these days, any improvement in consumption is a positive thing.

If you do decide to give it a go, do let us know the outcome.

Cheers = Roger


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

LEONGSTER said:


> It's a tin-based invention that supposedly alters the state of petrol in way that improves power and fuel economy. An uncle of mine fitted it to his old Mazda 929 and it ran for about 20 years after that on lower octance Unleaded fuel with no pinking problems.
> 
> It comes in a sack you drop into your fuel tank. Or as an in-line cannister that attaches along your fuel line.
> 
> ...



Leongster: 
Funny how you just happen to drop into NF's X-Trail section....
Drop in some hints about an obscure product....
Throw in the idea of a family member using this marvalous product...

AND YOU THINK WE ARE ACTUALLY DUMB ENOUGH TO FALL FOR THIS?
Face it you are just here to advertize right? 
Well, by by to you my friend!


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

*Broquet or Fitch fuel catalyst*

I got a thread started with the hope of getting some info on this thing called a TIN-BASED fuel catalyst. Goes by the name FuelCat, Broquet or Fitch.

Then before I know it some X-trail moderator (they exist?!) called ValBoo gives me the stick!

Would you believe it.

Anyone out there that knows of anything like this please let me know. We are paying close to two dollars a litre of regular here in Singapore and there are some of us willing to give something like a fuel catalyst a try if it's been proven to work.

I've tried fuel magnets - mixed results. MT oil additive - got my old Audi A6 from 12l/100km to about 10l/100km! But expensive stuff.

This one's interesting - google "tin-based fuel catalysts and see what comes up.



2004 X-TRAIL. 16,000 KM, BEIGE. MIXED DRIVING 10L/100KM.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

With the price of fuel only going up, we gonna see more and more of these so called "fuel savers" pop-up here and there and from my personal experience is using one of these gadgets called Hiclone/Cyclone, I can tell you that it is the biggest con and deception I have ever seen. Luckily the company offered a 30 day money back guarantee and I got my money back.

My fuel economy actually got worse than running without this "fuel saver"!

P.S. As a new member of this site, I suggest you play by the rules and listen to what the moderators are saying and if you require clarification to an action taken, please take it up with the moderator direct (instead of doing so publically on the board)

Enjoy your stay in this friendly xtrail community!

If you wanna really find ways to save some money on fuel, consider converting your xtrail to LPG.


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

LEONGSTER said:


> ......
> Then before I know it some X-trail moderator (they exist?!) called ValBoo gives me the stick!
> 
> Would you believe it.
> .......



I was contacted by LEONGSTER, via private message.

He explained that his posting and enquiry was genuine & legitimate without affiliation to the product described.

He has asked that my hasty & wrongful conclusion be retracted and an apology made.

Too often the site is infested by "drop-ins" who innocently pretend to ask about products and services only to profit on their affiliation to the product (as was recently the case of a female insurance broker roaming the board...)

LEONGSTER took offense to my assumption.
At this point I can only take his word, and offer my apology.


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## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

*Moderators*



LEONGSTER said:


> *Then before I know it some X-trail moderator (they exist?!) *called ValBoo gives me the stick! Would you believe it.
> 
> 2004 X-TRAIL. 16,000 KM, BEIGE. MIXED DRIVING 10L/100KM.


LEONGSTER:

*IF* you participate in forums of this nature for any appreciable amount of time, you'll become aware of *the fact that most (if not all) of these forums have "moderators".*

These folks (like ValBoo) *give freely of their time *to assist with the running of the forum and *to ensure that ALL members adhere to the rules and regulations *- which we are all encouraged to read when we sign up.

They also protect the rights of others by ensuring that there are no "copyright" infringements and they also attempt to ensure that we are not bombarded by advertisers who join under the guise of a private individual and then set about marketing their products.

I participate in several Nissan Forums - all of which have moderators. AND, I can tell you from personal experience that *ValBoo is among the best.* He has a "balanced" approach to moderating the forum and only intervenes when he thinks it appropriate. He is also very helpful with sharing information and willing comes to the aid of members who seek his assistance via a PM.

In your case, he's reviewed the information (after your PM) and has given you both the benefit of doubt and a public apology......

The ball is in your court now and I, for one, look forward to your active and contributing participation in this forum. As I said in an earlier post, if the product is not too expensive and you do purchase it, do let us know how it goes...that way we can all benefit.

BTW, I notice that your X is an 04 model with only 16k on the clock - - do you use it as just an occasional driver ?

Cheers = Roger


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Dear All: no doubt, an explanation is due to everyone here. I am a newbie to forums and I hope you'll forgive me the lapse in decorum and protocol. ValBoo (Thanks, Marc. Gracious of you. We're cool now, yes?) went out of his way to explain things and I have a better understanding now of the way things work.

I am a first-time Nissan owner in fact. Before this I swore by German engineering. Or Italian. Well, maybe if you count the couple of early Mazdas and Toyotas that I've owned, then it would look like I've pretty much driven the whole crop. I'm not a qualified mechanic but i'm pretty hands on and have taken on a few engine builds myself when I was younger. It comes from living in a place where cars cost the same as small houses to own and maintain.

I really dig the X-trail. It's a late 04 model that I picked up off a used car lot with very little on the clock. Use it everyday. Personally I think the Murano is the dog's ____! but that's another story.

Yup - Hyclones, Cyclones, Turbonators...I've tried the Cyclones on an Alfa75 and AudiA6 - they do improve low end torque some, but restrict the airway and sap top end power. Then I researched throttle body helixes. Same issues. They got the bin, too.

Then came magnets - simply rare earth ones that I got and clipped on the fuel line of my Vito. Fuel consumption improved about 5-10% and the engine was more "luggable". But the jury's still out on whether they actually work. Jalal - LPG was top of my mind when I got the X-trail. Singapore's really late in this game and it'll affect the warranty, but I am still dreaming of this!


Now I am investigating either the Fitch, Broquet or Fuel-cat which have been around a long time. Someone with a degree in applied physics may have an explanation. 
An explanation, for now I certainly do not have. But I'll keep you chaps posted the minute I know!

Nice hearing from all of you!


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Hi Everyone, here's an update on those tin-based fuel catalysts. Evidently, they work by "microplating" the cylinder bores. Some kind of friction-modifier. Cooler bores and pistons result in cooler combustion and less predetonation or pinking. Which may explain why some drivers are able to swtich to a lower RON fuel. What results is a better "burn", but there's some concern now about what these things put out into the air that can't be measured by the emissions test-gear, so whether they end up causing some form of pollution in the end is unclear.

I was told by an amazing chap I had lunch with today (that's a whole other thread!) organic molydenum has the same effect - when applied in the right dosage to engine oil. (Note the term "right-dosage")

With the fuel-catalyst, it seems the "catalytic" action comes from the way the tin is converted in its pellet form in the fuel tank once it's mixed with the petrol. In-line versions work the same way except that they sit somewhere in your engine bay. Designs vary from brand to brand. It seems the pellets have to be exposed over a certain time to fuel in order to be leached properly into the fuel.

Basically I spent 5 hours with a 60 year-old engineer/physicist yesterday and what I learnt could fill a couple journals. Guys, this stuff can get pretty heavy, and I'll understand if you don't want to hear anymore of it - let me know either way.

As for brand-names and such, I'm going to stop mentioning them on this forum as I don't want to end up sounding like some kind of guerilla-marketing saleperson.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

I just found an interesting article on another fuel catalyst, only this one gives away a lot more detail on how these things work.

For all interested: 

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/clivan/ultraburn.html#Magnetism and Fuels

Happy reading!


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

OK, I finally got hold of a fuel catalyst - the F5T. I wanted to see what it would do before dropping it in my x-trail. So my dad's half dead lawnmower got the treatment. Dropped it in the tank of stale regular, and swirled it around for about 15 minutes. Then started it up. You will not believe what happened next. The thing started difficult as always, then started running like a dream after a minute. Half throttle to full throttle no problem (previously would stall and wouldn't run on full bore without stalling).

So next, I fished out the cartridge and left it in a 2 gallon spare tank of 95 for an hour. Poured the whole 2 gallons into my Vito (1/2 tank). The Van now pulls cleanly from 1,000rpm in fifth, driver only. Could previously only ever do this from 1500rpm.

Am conducting more experiments. Am not putting this thing in my x-trail until I get the chance to evaluate some fuel magnets I put in 4 tankfuls ago. Now getting 10km per litre and rising. 4-speed auto, 10-20% in Auto 4-wheel. 40%City, 60% highway. Somethings improving the economy, and it's not my right foot!


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

LEONGSTER said:


> Somethings improving the economy, and it's not my right foot!


You're right. It's not your right foot. It's your imagination.

Jeez, people.

TINSTAAFL


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

TINSTAAFL! NOT YOU AGAIN!

Right in your very own backyard people are finding ways to better mileage.

check out: www.himacresearch.com.

And if perchance you have the time, google: Tom Ogle, and Alan L Francoeur.

Look and Learn my friend. Ignorance is bliss but it's no excuse.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

LONGSTER, can you please tell me one thing based on the many articles you have read about these fuel savers.

If it has been proven such a big success since 1977 when these guys were testing it and "believed" it's not a hoax, How come none of the car manufacturers adopted this system at all since that time?

You would have to agree that having this type of fuel saving device in ANY brand of cars would have made it the worlds best seller for sure!

I can't dispute the improvements you're noticing because I don't have the gadget to prove otherwise, so at this stage I can only trust what you reporting is correct and not just a "want to believe" results.

I suggest you run with this gadget a bit longer and record your fuel consumption regularly to see the difference, as usually the best of these gadgets only give results (if any) after a number of re-fills and not straight away.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Hi Jalal. My opinion, as someone with a non-engineering background that tries to take a balanced view on all things controversial:

1) Many of the original inventors were holding out for patents that took years to be awarded if at all. Carburettors made way for fuel-injection systems and the inefficiencies of the carb concept were quickly forgotten as fuel-injection became the next big thing in cars. These guys eventually got their patents. But the world had moved on to turbocharging and fuel-injection and cat converters and - post 1985 - with the price of gasoline dropping faster than a sheik could ride a camel, a lot of their ideas got mothballed or the public simply lost interest.

2) Some of this technology works for fuel-injection. But car manufacturers would have to fork out millions in licencing fees to lease the technology from the patent holders. That cost would find its way to the sticker price and end up putting holes in our pockets. As long as the EPA mileage figures can be met, why bother. 

3) Cars that make 65 miles to the gallon don't always sell well. See what happened to the Audi A2. 

4) Car makers focus on making a better motorcar. They do not have much control over fuel technology and therefore it is not really in their interest to 'treat' fuel the way a lot of these devices purportedly do. The oil companies may have other things on their mind and I won't go there. For the record, however, a certain car manufacturer in Indonesia is planning to fit a certain fuel-catalyst to a production line to deal with the poor quality fuel there. Curiously, I am told that car-line is the X-trail which needs 91 ron. Indonesia mostly has 87 plus ron gas. Now isn't that a little closer to home. (The x-trail, I mean!)

5) I took out the fuel-line gadgets yesterday as the x-trail had to go in for its 20k service. I got it back just now. The strange vibe at idle is back. Fuel consumption SANS magnet I'll know in a couple weeks. To date, after around 8 tanks of gas I was doing 10km plus per litre with the fuel magnets. Happy!

I would not have had all the sudden interest in these gizmos if I hadn't met one of the inventors recently. He and I have become fast friends and I am making up for the college education I never had.

If one-tenth of what he has taught me works (and so far it has) , that's more than I could ever ask.

Besides, it's a bit of fun in an otherwise slightly boring and over-policed place called Home, where it used to be that you could even get a ticket for fitting a CAI!

Your thread on resetting the ECU was a big help. Happy X-trailing Jalal! 

Eddie


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

LEONGSTER said:


> TINSTAAFL! NOT YOU AGAIN!
> 
> Right in your very own backyard people are finding ways to better mileage.
> 
> ...



You must be insanely happy.

Which fuel-saving technology are you advocating? Tin-based "fuel catalysts" or Tom Ogle's vapor-carburetor? I haven't the time nor the energy to debunk them both mself, so I'll use your suggestion and let Google do it for me:

"200 mpg carburetors"
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_150.html

"Fuel catalysts"
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=11531&highlight=broquet


There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch - TINSTAAFL

You'd think people would be smarter by now. The information is out there, but there is almost as much misinformation. Don't spread it.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Having started this thread in order to find more info on whether these things actually worked, I feel I now have a responsibility to close the issue with some findings of mine.

I hope that those of you who have shown some interest in this subject will benefit from these findings, even if they are controversial and have provoked the ire of many of you out there.

Over the past weeks, I have been doing some heavy research on fuel-catalysts. I have also been conducting practical tests on my own vehicles.

Here are my own personal conclusions on fuel catalysts.

Some of them appear to work by releasing a (metallic) compound into the fuel that lubricates the piston rings and reduces top-ring temperature - that is why a lower-octane fuel can often be used without pinging problems. The downside is, that same compound is not broken down by the combustion process and simply finds its way out the exhaust and back into the air - which we breathe. Not good. 

Leaded petrol was phased out for similar reasons. 

This may explain why the EPA and State of California bans certain fuel catalysts which are sold freely elsewhere.

There are perhaps one or two fuel catalysts that work along a different principle. It is not for me to say what these are, even though I really wished that even a handful of you out there could gain in some small way from what I have learnt.

But I shall finish off with this borrowed morsel for what it's worth:

There is no trial without error, and the day we stop learning is the day we stop living.


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

Good Lord, man. Fuel catalysts have been debunked and tossed aside years ago. Want to learn? Go read a book, and stop putting crap in your tank.

Here's another report on your fuel catalysts:

http://www.fuelsaving.info/catalysts.htm

You'll want to check out the rest of the site. It will help save you from buying more of these products in the future.

Seriously - stop promoting crap. Impressionable people read these forums.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Very nice of you to point out the website to me. Looks like it's my turn to Look and Learn, eh?!


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Eddie,

Calm down mate or your "octane rating" will drop to zero. hahahaha

There is no need for anyone to be throwing insults at you or for you to respond to them.

I am just waiting to see your facts and results documented and presented to us in a form of a trial result after running with this device for some time now.

What I really want to see for example is your fuel consumption for 10 full tanks before and after you installed this gadget.

Your results would need to show the number of Kms travelled for each full tank.

Once you have that demonstrated, we can take it further.

I'm noting going to throw URL links at you, but instead we will all use common sense to assess the effectiveness (or lack of it) from what you show us.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

chansen said:


> Good Lord, man. Fuel catalysts have been debunked and tossed aside years ago. Want to learn? Go read a book, and stop putting crap in your tank.
> 
> Here's another report on your fuel catalysts:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip Chansen - Actually this was the very first site I came across weeks ago, among several dozen others. Hence my thread to find out more. It's nice to know though - judging from all the sites you seem to have been navigating to - that you have been taking my advice to look-and-learn.

Personally though I couldn't quite fathom why someone like you would be so defensive everytime the word "fuel-saving device" was mentioned. 

My conclusion? You must work for an oil company, right. One of those marketing types that gets paid overtime to debunk these things on forums like this one. Either that or you got burned badly with one of these things, and you're using this forum just to vent your frustration.

Either way, my sympathies. Do you have PayPal? I'd like to make a small donation.

I concur that impressionable people read forums like this one. Then again, isn't this a Nissan X-trail forum, where intelligent, rational and independant minded folks spend their spare time deciding for themselves whether something makes sense or not.

Oh, but I forgot - you never did mention if you drove an X-trail.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

chansen said:


> Good Lord, man. Fuel catalysts have been debunked and tossed aside years ago. Want to learn? Go read a book, and stop putting crap in your tank.
> 
> Here's another report on your fuel catalysts:
> 
> http://www.fuelsaving.info/catalysts.htm


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

LEONGSTER said:


> I concur that impressionable people read forums like this one. Then again, isn't this a Nissan X-trail forum, where intelligent, rational and independant minded folks spend their spare time deciding for themselves whether something makes sense or not.
> 
> Oh, but I forgot - you never did mention if you drove an X-trail.


Look in my profile, under my name at every post I've made here. That's where rational people would look to see what car I drove.

Want to save fuel? Drive conservatively. Stay within the speed limit, brake gently, conserve speed when safe to do so. It's not rocket science. And neither are the solutions you've posted so far. They're scams.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

chansen said:


> Look in my profile, under my name at every post I've made here. That's where rational people would look to see what car I drove.
> 
> Want to save fuel? Drive conservatively. Stay within the speed limit, brake gently, conserve speed when safe to do so. It's not rocket science. And neither are the solutions you've posted so far. They're scams.


Well, it IS Saturday night. Let's have some fun shall we? After all I've got 89 (octane) points left last time I checked, so might as well make the most of things!

chansen (sigh) , I already do everything you advocated. That's why I got to thinking that since I have such a consistent, conservative driving style that maybe I could start testing one or two of these things to see if they actually worked.

You sound like someone that got burnt badly in a scam in the past. Again, my sympathies if that happened - this time genuine

I would NOT put any crap in my car without doing some homework first. And I expect the same of anyone in this forum. Only in this instance it's my car we're talking about and my hard-earned money that I've spent on these things, whether they work or not.

That's why the fuel catalyst was the last thing in, after the fuel-line magnets were taken out. After all it took a lot of fiddling with the fuel pump panel to get the pellets in the tank - very dangerous job due to the fumes and not something I would advise to the faint-of heart!

This IS my car we are talking about here. So I am wondering why I seem to be attracting the flak.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

aussietrail said:


> Eddie,
> 
> Calm down mate or your "octane rating" will drop to zero. hahahaha
> 
> ...



Hi Jalal, 

Yep, life's too short. Thanks for the valium mate. If one people in a hundred understood what I'm talking about it would be worth all the naysayers in the world taking potshots at me.

I still owe you those pictures of the braces I was talking about. Will shoot them tomorrow! Did you see if your trusty steed has em? If not I think they can be retrofitted without too much effort. I think they're there to improve the car's structural integrity in T-bone collisions. Something I hope we never get to test.

G night!


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

LEONGSTER said:


> Well, it IS Saturday night. Let's have some fun shall we? After all I've got 89 (octane) points left last time I checked, so might as well make the most of things!
> 
> chansen (sigh) , I already do everything you advocated. That's why I got to thinking that since I have such a consistent, conservative driving style that maybe I could start testing one or two of these things to see if they actually worked.
> 
> ...


Sounds like I've been burnt? You've installed magnets and fuel pellets. You've been burnt twice. You've handed money over to scam artists twice, and seem to celebrate this.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

chansen said:


> Sounds like I've been burnt? You've installed magnets and fuel pellets. You've been burnt twice. You've handed money over to scam artists twice, and seem to celebrate this.


Would you believe I did not pay one cent for the fuel line magnets and fuel catalysts.

They were handed to me by one of the research engineers that developed the technology in the US about ten years ago. He did this because I have in the pipeline a documentary on a related subject, we got talking and I seemed to understand the science behind how these things worked with some difficulty albeit.

I have experimented with a lot of magnetic resonance devices that supposedly de-cluster the fuel. Some worked, some didn't. Some can be put together for next to nothing. 

As I said, I did not have to pay for a single one of these things - due to the nature of my profession I come across a lot of new technology and have learnt over the years to tell apart the hoaxes. The technology I'm testing now works in an interesting way - too complex to describe in any of these forums. The problem is, it works better on some vehicles than others, and I'm trying to build a database on this. Where I've put my hard -earned money is in committing some pretty expensive cars to the odd trial here and there.

As for the fuel catalysts, again I did not fork out a single cent. And let me tell you for a fact how convinced I am that these ones actually do something positive to the fuel.

Around the same time I was testing this on my lawnmower and van (the latter a relatively cheap guinea pig at 23,000SGD) I presented the technical data to the emergency services fleet division of a government organisation that cannot be revealed here. In a nutshell, they are letting me test the technology on their 10,000cc trucks to see if we can get any improvement in the acceleration times. Hopefully I'll be able to document this on camera, if not, then too bad.

Does this sound like the rantings of an irrational person, or - worse -someone using guerilla marketing to promote a scam?

This is MY reputation that's at stake here (what's left of it at least).Even if this is a forum where some are known to hide behind barbed pen. And I sincerely wish you'd stop taking swipes at me old chap - we don't know each other from a previous life do we? Spurned lovers and that sorta thing?.

Also, I wish you'd reserve the insults and potshots for someone that really deserves it. Like the guys that are making us all pay through our noses for our fuel.


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

LEONGSTER said:


> Would you believe I did not pay one cent for the fuel line magnets and fuel catalysts.


No. Not unless you have some interest in the product or its distributrion.

You say you have no engineering background. That I can believe. I have a B.Eng. (Civil) and my wife has a PhD in Chemical Engineering, both from accredited universities in Ontario. There is so much research into fuel efficiency, both commercially-supported and independant, that if any of these previously reported solutions worked AT ALL, some researcher would be all over it, even if there was no money in it for them, just to get their name out there.

NOBODY in academia is interested. The gimmicks you're promoting fail the scrutiny of high school-level chemistry and physics. They exist to trick people who don't understand the sceince but feel the oil or car companies are cheating them. Oil companies are gouging. Car companies could produce more fuel efficient cars, but not at current car prices and performance levels.

If industry is guilty of keeping anything from consumers, it's alternative fuel technology. For example, hydrogen fuel cells look intriguing, but problems still exist due to the enegy required to produce and store enough hydrogen. More funding from industry could accelerate that technology.

But the crap you are promoting is junk.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

chansen said:


> No. Not unless you have some interest in the product or its distributrion.


Crikey, mate:

You are really beginning to sound like a broken gramaphone. Of course I am interested in this product, among others I have mentioned. 

Why the bloomin ell would I be asking for feedback from anyone that's ever used it.

Can't you read, man? 

You say your wife has a doctorate in chemical engineering. Also you seem to know a smidgen about alternative fuels like hydrogen. So maybe there is some hope for you yet.

Let's see...

Ask your wife about Heusler Alloys, and how they behave when immersed in any solution containing acids, alkanes or alkaline with even minute traces of water, such as the water that sits in your fuel tank. 

Also, on a different but related subject, have her explain -in terms her husband can understand - how the introduction of trace amounts of platinum into the combustion chamber can reduce engine temperatures and boost mileage by burning the fuel inside of your engine instead of in the catalytic converter. If this is too difficult to fathom, then maybe just look up Joel Robinson, he published a book for first graders somewhere I think. (Please don't send me another link to StraightDope. I don't go there.)

If you're in the vicinity of your library (you know what that is, right), maybe shake off the dust from your library card and borrow a book - any book - on something called a Hartman Current and how you can stimulate this current in your fuel line in such a way as to have it act as a fuel hydrocracker.( You could use an old vibrator, if you could get it to work in the right frequency.)

As for hydrogen fuel - would it surprise you to know Singapore happens to be one of the testbeds for Daimler-Chrylser's hydrogen fuel cell car and there is a hydrogen station five minutes away from me. 

The technological barrier isn't in how to generate the fuel (like you said). It's in how to produce this at a cost that makes it viable, it's in how to safely store it (Like you said). That's why there's lots of work underway to produce storage tanks that are porous like a metal sponge. So the gas can be stored in large amounts safely in all those voids.

(Perhaps you could volunteer an x-ray of your brain. They might find something there.)

Round about now, there are a couple Hydrogen powered buses going into full service somewhere. So Hydrogen's arrived already, as we slept.

But seriously. I hope all this is at least good for a laugh or two. ( I know my Aussie friends are in stitches, so maybe some good has come out of this.)

Because I certainly do not appreciate being accused of promoting crap, especially not by someone that's got the sort of mentality more typical of a bull elephant in heat.

So for what it's worth, chansen, this is the last time I'm posting a response to you. If you'd take some advice of mine, I'd suggest you do the same as I really do not want to be responsible for giving you a cardiac.

If ever you're in my neck of the woods however, I hope you we can have coffee.

I'd seriously like to get inside your head to see what's there. And I mean this in the very best of spirits!


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

Let's recae. LEONGSTER has stated:

1. His uncle has run a fuel catalyst for 20 years on an old Mazda 929 with low octane

2. "MT oil additive - got my old Audi A6 from 12l/100km to about 10l/100km!"

3. With magnets, "Fuel consumption improved about 5-10% and the engine was more "luggable"."

4. "I spent 5 hours with a 60 year-old engineer/physicist yesterday"

5. "OK, I finally got hold of a fuel catalyst...my dad's half dead lawnmower got the treatment. Dropped it in the tank of stale regular, and swirled it around for about 15 minutes. Then started it up. You will not believe what happened next. The thing started difficult as always, then started running like a dream after a minute."

6. "Around the same time I was testing this on my lawnmower and van (the latter a relatively cheap guinea pig at 23,000SGD) I presented the technical data to the emergency services fleet division of a government organisation that cannot be revealed here. In a nutshell, they are letting me test the technology on their 10,000cc trucks to see if we can get any improvement in the acceleration times. Hopefully I'll be able to document this on camera, if not, then too bad."


So, based on your uncle's experience, your lawnmower, and your van, you managed to convince your local "emergency service fleet" manager to open the fuel tanks of emergency services vehicles for you to conduct "tests".

You ACTUALLY think people will believe this?

At this point, I ask the forum mods: Will you let this guy continue?


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

chansen said:


> You ACTUALLY think people will believe this?
> 
> At this point, I ask the forum mods: Will you let this guy continue?



I have been keeping quiet.... on purpose.
Sorry to say I am kind of glad to see that I am not the only one that initially jumped out in disbelief about the whole thing.... (see post No 5 at the beginning of this thread).

I prodded a little...

Administrators & Moderators were already informed about this initially.
and the consensus was:
\ Leongster, has his views on the subject, and shares them, no rules broken on NF, then that is fine.

This is an open forum for discussions. 

I do not share the same views about fuel catalyst. And none of that junk is going in my tank... Nor magnets on my fuel line. 
But I hear that the fumes emanating from a 2 week old dead cat caught in the radiator fan blades, actually changes the gasoline properties as they mix after being drawn through the air intake manifold. You see my grandfather was American-indian and noticed this when he was hunting caribou in the northern territories roaming around on his snow mobile.


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## SCHESBH (May 25, 2004)

*I am so glad... ...*

For once... I am so glad that I viewed and not posted. Marc... I feel sorry for you and the cat... and your uncle... I just traded in my X-Trail for a Horse and Buggy... great mileage, uses only Hay and carrots... although the exaust needs a muffler for the smell and many bags for the poop. I have traded in for lower Horse Power (get it), conserves energy, great on the environment..... Ok... I have had enough.. this thread just gives me a great big smile and I thank all of you for this! HAPPY CANADA DAY!

Stephen




ValBoo said:


> I have been keeping quiet.... on purpose.
> Sorry to say I am kind of glad to see that I am not the only one that initially jumped out in disbelief about the whole thing.... (see post No 5 at the beginning of this thread).
> 
> I prodded a little...
> ...


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

Thanks, guys. The thread has served its purpose - Leongster has been discredited.

Moving on.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

chansen said:


> Thanks, guys. The thread has served its purpose - Leongster has been discredited.


I am speechless!


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

aussietrail said:


> With the price of fuel only going up, we gonna see more and more of these so called "fuel savers" pop-up here and there and from my personal experience is using one of these gadgets called Hiclone/Cyclone
> My fuel economy actually got worse than running without this "fuel saver"!


I used the original cylcone(Korean invention) on my old alfa75 twinspark - had the same disappointment too. The torque was better low down, but the engine ran out of breathe quickly - the blades of the cyclone were impeding airflow. The principle was sound, but the technology wasn't perfected before it went into the market. Good that you got your money back. A local taxi fleet fitted something like 300 units and got some interesting results but I don't know if they're still running em.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Eddie,

That is exactly what I mean by providing proven test results. With the Cyclone/Hiclone or whatever the name is of these super blades, *TEN* of us tested it in an xtrail, each one of us was driving their car in different driving conditions, mine was the only xtrail that is modified (headers) ALL of us ran for about 3-4 full fuel tanks before giving the final verdict and ALL of us noticed reduction in power and worse fuel economy. This meant only one thing, it was in fact restricting air-flow for sure and the engine was struggling to breath.

I didn't give-up, I tried everything and also tried repositioning the cyclone, same results!

Then, as soon as I removed it and with the first full tank, my fuel consumption went back to normal and this was also the case with the other 9 guys!

A quick call to the distributor in Australia and we all got our money back, they tried very hard to convince me to put more than one cyclone, but by that time, the REAL cyclone hit Australia and it was more than enough for me. hahahaha 

In regards to your othr post where you stated that you won't be posting here anymore (or for a while):

It is unfortunate that you have given-up on the forum and I don't like to see any member of this forum feel the way you do now.

I don't enjoy bagging people and I could have been in EXACTLY the same situation like yours on my Australian X-Trail Forum, but the guys instead raised their hand and some of us decided to give it a try (just to prove ourselves wrong for the sake of it if nothing else).

I believe in the saying which says "You will never ever know, if you never ever Go!" and we went there and found out what we needed to know and this closed the chapter in terms of these blades (for the xtrail).

I would still be interested to see your results and I know for a FACT that you will come back to us with good news or bad news and will say it in all honesty. There is no shame in trying, as long as you don't wreck your exy in the process


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Jalal, thanks for this - very big and courageous of you, given the amount of flak I've attracted. As usual, my complete lack of diplomacy got in the way...but I was getting a little tired of being accused of misdoings. Seems to have been the case since I started this thread!

I know what it's like to get taken for a ride. Many times over the years in fact; but with age comes wisdom if not common sense! The lesson I've learnt? Leave someone else to do the experimenting. Then again, maybe not.

I haven't given up on the fuel tests, but I shan't be responding to any more brickbats and I'll reserve my efforts on this forum to putting out info I think will be useful to others as there really is some satisfaction to be had there...

So here's an update (I bounce back quickly):

As I said, the magnets got me from around 9.5 to 10+ km per litre, over about two or three tanksful. Then they came out and in went the fuel pellets. The first couple tanks right after I popped in the pellets got me around 10.5km per litre. Silkier the damn thing felt but not by that much as the X-trail's already so creamy. Still, I can't be sure and I didn't do a sound analysis chart before that to see if there was any real difference before and after.

Then I fitted the Calskis (that's what the magnets are called) and the results were felt right after I started up and drove off: the car refused to accelerate properly, and felt downright sluggish. I was revving the engine constantly and putting the pedal to the metal more often than I usually do. Not good.

After one tankful with the Calskis with wholly negative results, they came right out, and things seemed to return back to normal. I should add that I reset the ECU each time I added or took something off. Strangely though the mileage didn't appear to be affected - too badly. Have logged down the figures, but haven't done the calculations yet.

It seems that between the magnets and the catalyst, so much oxygen is being released into the fuel that the ECU is overcompensating by enrichening the fuel in an attempt to achieve stoichiometric. This should result in poorer mileage, and I'm certain it will, but the sluggishness put paid to that exercise. 

The Calskis have gone back on my Vito's fuel line, and I'm mapping the progress there. Next I plan to fit a set on a Merc E200 kompressor - it's got a fuel computer and I should be able to track the results in near real-time. Would have tried to fit a set on the A160 first, but the engine is canted so far backwards and under the firewall I can't get to a fuel line anywhere, short of going under the car. 

Am not thinking of putting the fuel pellets in the Merc cars yet, as they have pretty complex fuel tanks that I have to study first. So for the interim it'll just be the magnets.

Sorry for all the rambling old boy. You know, I've got a couple of pictures of those monster trucks I was telling you about. If you're interested I'll jpeg you a couple on your email but not on this forum - private reserve only. Only if you're really interested, that is. Otherwise, look out for the spreadsheet I'm assembling.

Be well



Eddie


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

LEONGSTER said:


> I am speechless!


I'm not that lucky.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

ValBoo said:


> I have been keeping quiet.... on purpose.
> Sorry to say I am kind of glad to see that I am not the only one that initially jumped out in disbelief about the whole thing.... (see post No 5 at the beginning of this thread).



et tu brute?


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

Yeah, "Caesar", even him, and just about every other member of the forum.


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

LEONGSTER said:


> et tu brute?



Sorry Eddie, I am not sure what this questions means? could you please rephrase?


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

ValBoo said:


> Sorry Eddie, I am not sure what this questions means? could you please rephrase?


Ha Ha. Nothing terminal, Jalal, and definitely not directed at you. It's a borrowed phrase: When Julius Caesar got stabbed he realised that Marcus Brutus Caepio, someone he thought he'd trusted, had turned on him.

Being on this forum kinda reminds me of that.

Anyways, today I'll try doing a sound analysis chart of the VITO running with and without the Calskis. Also do a baseline chart on the X-trail running treated fuel, and untreated. For the heck of it.

BTW, I'm going to PM you a couple very interesting links. Enjoy!


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

LEONGSTER said:


> Ha Ha. Nothing terminal, Jalal, and definitely not directed at you. It's a borrowed phrase: When Julius Caesar got stabbed he realised that Marcus Brutus Caepio, someone he thought he'd trusted, had turned on him.


Sorry mate, I wasn't the one holding the knife or asking this question. hahahaha 

I think you got me mixed-up with Marcus..errr. I mean Marc (Valboo). hahahaha 




> BTW, I'm going to PM you a couple very interesting links. Enjoy!


Looking forward to it.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

aussietrail said:


> Sorry mate, I wasn't the one holding the knife or asking this question. hahahaha
> 
> I think you got me mixed-up with Marcus..errr. I mean Marc (Valboo). hahahaha





Whoops! Looks like I did. Sorry, Jalal! 

On the topic of a dead cat in the engine bay - you know Marcus, errr I mean Marc, might just have a real nugget in the dead cat scenario there. See, a dead cat would bloat from all that methane building up in its rotting gut. Until BOOM! Big explosion. Methane gas gets into CAI and into your engine, mixes with the airfuelmixture, and Wham! It'll feel just like someone hit the nitrous button. For all of a few milliseconds that is. There you go. Now we just need proof of concept. Any volunteers?


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## SmallSteps (May 3, 2006)

Now that we are on the topic of Fuel Additives and different mixes for the air intake ...

A few months ago someone tried to sell me some "Snake Oil". 

It is made from Palm Oil and had a gurantee of decreasing fuel consumption and increasing BHP, a minimum of 10 wopping percent !! wow ... talk about miracle drugs.

I asked them how they are going to prove their claims. 

They replied that they will add the "miracle drug" to a lawnmower. The engine shall rev faster to prove their claims. Add ratio is 1:1000 (petrol) or 1200 (diesel). Made claims that our country's Railway and Air Force (airplanes) are currently using the it. Shall also be introducing the potent contents to Ferrari (not McLaren, Renault, Red Bull). So being my usual sarcastic self(non believer of Miracle Drugs), asked them who in Ferrari, Ron Dennis ? 

BTW, they are from a Multi Level Marketing company. The "husband and wife" team could not differentiate between a 2 stroke (some lawn mover engines) or 4 stroke engine. Did not understand what we ment by "Torque". 

I invited some of the Malaysian XTrailers over during the "sales pitch".

So ...... we challenged them to add the "Miracle Drug" into "a vehicle" and the dyno shall be the "lie detector". They asked us what a dyno was .... !!

We have not done any testing till today. They claimed it was too expensive to do a dyno test. 

We get a lot of Road Kills. Maybe it would be a better alternative than "Snake Oil". I could build a longer "air intake" tube to sweep the road for excess Methane ... Or is that the reason CAI filter pods are placed nearer to the ground level - to sniff the Methane and not cold air. 

Eureka !!!


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

LEONGSTER said:


> Any volunteers?


Any spare dead cats you can export to Australia for testing? Or do I need to have a big meal of baked beans and stand close to the intake. hahahaha 

This topic is getting interesting by the minute, I think am gonna wear a gas mask next time I read it LOL

PS: What is the story with *Lawnmowers* every man and his dog seems to be comparing our exy to them when it comes to testing?


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

SmallSteps said:


> They asked us what a dyno was .... !!


Mate, I can see this couple is selling directly to Lamborgini with their level of knowledge. Here you go Mr. Lamborgini, just put this drop of oil in your fuel tank and hope it doesn't get transformed into a lawnmower LOL



> We have not done any testing till today. They claimed it was too expensive to do a dyno test.


It sure is! But it is much cheaper openning their mouth and coming-up with crap stories hoping someone would believe them! 



> We get a lot of Road Kills. Maybe it would be a better alternative than "Snake Oil". I could build a longer "air intake" tube to sweep the road for excess Methane ... Or is that the reason CAI filter pods are placed nearer to the ground level - to sniff the Methane and not cold air.


The price of the CAI has just gone-up guys! How can you reveal a secret like that on a public forum??


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

A few months ago someone tried to sell me some "Snake Oil". 


Ken, is that you? This is Eddie, from the barbecue invite I couldn't take up. How's it going.


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

LEONGSTER said:


> Whoops! Looks like I did. Sorry, Jalal!
> 
> On the topic of a dead cat in the engine bay - you know Marcus, errr I mean Marc, might just have a real nugget in the dead cat scenario there. See, a dead cat would bloat from all that methane building up in its rotting gut. Until BOOM! Big explosion. Methane gas gets into CAI and into your engine, mixes with the airfuelmixture, and Wham! It'll feel just like someone hit the nitrous button. For all of a few milliseconds that is. There you go. Now we just need proof of concept. Any volunteers?



DAH!!!
There... I knew my grand-father really had something going there 
Wait til I tell you what he used to do with the caribou waste!


About the Brutus quote: first- thanks for the explanation I guess my latin still needs brushing up.
Second- I was never in favor of the catalyst - therefore I could not "turn against" it/you.

Just to re-iterate when responding to Chansen,
This is an open Forum, *your views are welcome *(while not shared or endorsed by all)
After all if rules are followed thats fine.
If a subject is not interesting to me, _I keep quiet _or I do not read in depth.

On the reverse side, some will respond agressively with their comments/post, *and their views are also wlecomed, as long as these don't go overboard*...


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

ValBoo said:


> DAH!!!
> There... I knew my grand-father really had something going there
> Wait til I tell you what he used to do with the caribou waste!



Well said!


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## SCHESBH (May 25, 2004)

*ABC NEWS - Gas Saving Devices*

Ok... this is a good read for everyone...

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2188905&page=1

Stephen


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

SCHESBH said:


> Ok... this is a good read for everyone...
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2188905&page=1
> 
> Stephen


Good read is right - it also got me thinking. One of the reasons the tornado doesn't work is that it sits upstream of the throttle body. Therefore any vortex or swirl that the device induces is negated by the butterfly flap in the throttle body. (So maybe someone could develop an iris-type throttle body that works like the afterburner nozzle in a fighter jet?)

But, I have seen a similar vortex-creating device, by a different name. They made it small, small enough to fit INSIDE the intake manifold, AFTER the throttle body, and I have reason to believe this may work, although the idea of stainless steel blades in the intake kinda scares me.

If my memory is correct, Honda or some Jap car maker started machining small ridges into their intake manifolds in a car model four or five years ago - just ahead of the intake valve to induce swirl or increase laminar airflow . Anyone remember this?


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

LEONGSTER said:


> But, I have seen a similar vortex-creating device, by a different name. They made it small, small enough to fit INSIDE the intake manifold, AFTER the throttle body, and I have reason to believe this may work, although the idea of stainless steel blades in the intake kinda scares me. .


*bangs head against wall*

Please read up on Reynold's Number, viscosity, laminar and turbulent flow. Basically, gas flows turbulently due to low viscosity. Introduce any restriction (any non-powered object, blades or not, is a restriction) in a pipe, and you've reduced the effective diameter of the pipe, and therefore restricted airflow.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

chansen said:


> you've reduced the effective diameter of the pipe, and therefore restricted airflow.


I agree with that fully and am speaking from personal experience with this type of device (as I already stated previously)


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Assuming a stock-standard intake pipe, any 'bolt-on' bladed device however brilliantly designed can only improve the torque at the lower end of the rev band, and ends up impeding airflow at the top end - as was the experience I had with the Cylcone (that's the version that was sold here) in an Alfa Romeo 75 and Audi A6.

All the same I am still interested to know which production engine had the swirl-thingy built into the intake system, if I can just remember...

Anyway, some newer engines are using the same idea of inducing swirl (in the intake port) to improve power, albeit with extra swirl inducing valves (an old idea, given a new 'spin' no doubt).

Here's an interesting link on the new Chrysler Jeep Cherokee that uses a Mercedes-designed engine, albeit it's a diesel - where low end torque is the emphasis and these engines are not high-revving.

https://www.fleet.chrysler.com/fleetcda/CDAController?pageid=751


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

Fair enough, but notice how they are playing with existing valves, or adding grooves to the walls of the passageway.

For the love of all that is holy, please don't talk any more about shoving foreign objects in your air intake. I'm not naive enough to believe that you'll read up on the first principles of the situation like I suggested, but at least stop talking nonsense.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

chansen said:


> double post



Hi Chansen, I'm curious. If I've been discredited, how come you're still getting all worked up everytime I post.

(whoa, now that must be what it feels like to enter the dragon's den.)


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

Just keeping you firmly in the "looney bin" category. You don't want to read up on anything of substance, have shown a complete willingness to sign onto any scam proposed to you, see results where there are none, and have outright lied earlier in the thread.

Ignoring you would be irresponsible.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

chansen said:


> Just keeping you firmly in the "looney bin" category. You don't want to read up on anything of substance, have shown a complete willingness to sign onto any scam proposed to you, see results where there are none, and have outright lied earlier in the thread.
> 
> Ignoring you would be irresponsible.


Enlighten me - you said I lied earlier in the thread : can you be specific please.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Breaking news. There is another debate on the Fitch going on here. Not surprisingly yours truly happens to be in the thick of it! Let's hope the actual tests materialise. 

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/genera...ovement_or_fake_hype-6.html?posted=1#post3617


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

LEONGSTER said:


> Around the same time I was testing this on my lawnmower and van (the latter a relatively cheap guinea pig at 23,000SGD) I presented the technical data to the emergency services fleet division of a government organisation that cannot be revealed here. In a nutshell, they are letting me test the technology on their 10,000cc trucks to see if we can get any improvement in the acceleration times. Hopefully I'll be able to document this on camera, if not, then too bad.


"Hello, Mr. Fleet Supervisor. I tried this in my lawnmower and van, and it seemed to make a difference in fuel economy. With your permission, I'd like to put these devices to the test on your fleet vehicles. Maybe we make make them accelerate faster. Thank you."


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

LEONGSTER said:


> Breaking news. There is another debate on the Fitch going on here. Not surprisingly yours truly happens to be in the thick of it! Let's hope the actual tests materialise.
> 
> http://www.biofuelsforum.com/genera...ovement_or_fake_hype-6.html?posted=1#post3617


And you and the Fitch dude are being ripped to shreds there, too. Must be quite a common occurrance for you by now.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

chansen said:


> And you and the Fitch dude are being ripped to shreds there, too. Must be quite a common occurrance for you by now.


Chansen I am getting pretty tired here. So this is what I am proposing.

We both reveal our identity on this forum and the biodiesel forum. Actual names and photos (no sunglasses please). Locality of our addresses, contact nos, optional.

I'd be happy to let Marc (Valboo) outline the process.

I would also like you to state once again for the record, that you are calling me a liar - in those words, and detail (once again and in proper words), the context of that allegation.

You may wish to seek legal advice on the implications of coming out into the open with your allegations. ( I don't think you'll get into too much trouble, but I could be lying.)

You may also wish to consider your credibility on this and other forums, if you are proven otherwise.

This is what it's come down to. (And I can just see the eyeballs going into warp speed here.)

I'll show you mine, if you'll show me yours.

Marc, would you consider facilitating this.


regards

Ed


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

LOL This thread is getting interesting by the minute 

Marc: If you need a couple of side-line refs, give us a yell LOL


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

aussietrail said:


> LOL This thread is getting interesting by the minute
> 
> Marc: If you need a couple of side-line refs, give us a yell LOL





             Tell me I'm not being sadistic.


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

I'll go one better. Here's a pic of me and my wife, after her convocation from the University of Toronto with her PhD in Chemical Engineering in June 2004. In my defense, it was bright outside.









And here's my dog catching frisbees









And here's a molar I cracked, probably while knashing my teeth over one of your posts:









The pics are hosted at a gaming clan site where I'm a member.

I don't live in Mississauga, Ontario anymore. I moved to Bolton, Ontario last fall, and haven't updated my profile here. The X-Trail is my wife's.

I'll fill in more info later, but this odd collection of pics were already hosted. I hope they work for everyone - access may be restricted to gaming clan members only. I'm not sure.

Either way, the molar pic was from last year. Lost a fly ball in the sun. The filling is breaking up, so I'm getting it crowned soon. You can have pics of that as well, for all I care.

All I want is something from the "emergency services fleet division of a government organisation".

And thank you for not disputing that "You don't want to read up on anything of substance, have shown a complete willingness to sign onto any scam proposed to you, (and) see results where there are none..." That saves me some typing.


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

Meanwhile, here's my degree:









I'd love to show you my telephone listing at canada411.com, but I'm with Vonage, and have no listing. I do live at:

xx Xxxxxxx Road
xxxxx, ON
H0H 0H0

Now, put up, or simply get the hell out of here, and take your mothball-filled gas tanks with you.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Chansen, thanks for the pictures. Love the certs, too. But you haven't done what I've asked:

"I would also like you to state once again for the record, that you are calling me a liar - in those words, and detail (once again and in proper words), the context of that allegation."

Looking forward. 

Leongster


PS sorry about the cracked molar - that must hurt pretty bad.


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

Didn't hurt at all. Funny, that. Cracked right through the pulp, and nothing. The root canal wasn't fun, though. Now it's just a dead tooth.

*As I asked above*, please provide confirmation that an "emergency services fleet division of a government organisation" is actively testing whichever gadget you're promoting now. Common sense tells us that managers of emergency (i.e. ambulance or fire department) fleets don't mess around with half-baked inventions in the gas tanks or air intakes of their equipment. That has me absolutely positive that you're lying.

Your turn. No more discussing my molars.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

*FITCH CATALYST - ESD TESTS*

Chansen, I am actually happy to note that you are capable of great diplomacy when called for. So it’s my turn to be civil, from now on.

To those of you who’ve been watching this from the sidelines, thanks for holding back on the slings and arrows. It’s now time to come clean.

My name is Eddie Buay and I’m a professional photographer, based in Singapore, I reside here: 1º23’9”N , 103º 52’ 3” E. My mobile is (65) xxxx xxxx but if you plan to call sms first as I only take overseas calls from registered clients.

I did not have the benefit of a college education, but I do have a background in the arts, and spent my early years developing campaigns for names like Daimler-Benz, Philips, American Express, Chrysler and General Motors. If you Google my name, hopefully you’ll catch a glimpse of my past work in adland. These days my clients are folks in the motoring and hospitality business, where good, old fashioned Honesty combined with the promise of some fun, still opens up doors.

I used to scratch-build and fly powered, scale model aeroplanes, so Reynold’s nos, laminar airflow and turbulance is old hat ( that’s why I didn’t respond, Chansen). 
I’m also a certified petrolhead.

The tests on the fire engine actually did take place. Yes, I take credit for conceiving and co-ordinating the project, even though I do not have any ties with the Fitch guys beyond meeting up with them to get the test done. 

Also, it should be said that the prologue to these tests involved people at the very top, so this was not just some half-hitched lunchtime gag with a station manager to see if this thing would make a truck go like it was on speed. 

My plan, in a nutshell, was to see if the Fitch really worked in the real world, beyond my lawnmower, van (sic) and several cars I am still testing these things on.

With witnesses on hand, and a straightforward protocol, we recorded an improvement in the 0-80kph of around 3 seconds from standing, unbraked start, against a baseline of around 36 seconds. That’s about 8% improvement on an otherwise unmodified vehicle that weighed 28 metric tonnes, and had a 500 bhp Detroit diesel. The test is detailed in a report.

The photos of the test are below. I’ve posted an abridged file as it’ll load quickly.
Detailed images are available if you’ll PM me. (I’ve also posted my mug. It’s about 3 years old, when I was forty-one. Look ma, no eyeballs.)

These images are copyright, as is the PDF of the test report that I hope to post, once I lift the embargo on that. So please respect (my company also makes money from IP thieves). I’ll gladly give anyone the facts if I am asked to. For now, however, I am simply submitting the physical evidence that I have not been on acid this last month.

I intend to open up another thread detailing my personal experience with this product among others, as I have both positive and negative feedback which I feel is valuable to readers of the X-trail and Biofuels forum. But only if there is no further question of my credibility as I find this time-consuming and sapping.

For now, enjoy the photos - the experience had us scratching our heads, but it took a couple years off our lives, and I’d do it all over again.

Jalal, mate, this one's for you.


As ever, 


Eddie


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

WOW!!!!!! Thanks Ed. I just heard a whistle from the ref. signaling a One-Zero goal score for someone LOL 

After seeing this, I need to go downstairs for a smoke before coming back for some more


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

Well, it appears someone with a big red truck has let you near the engine.

How did you measure acceleration, and what were your results?


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

chansen said:


> Well, it appears someone with a big red truck has let you near the engine.
> 
> How did you measure acceleration, and what were your results?


Chansen, we got this amazing dude with fast-twitch muscles we knew who could do the 0-80 sprint in exactly 33.4 seconds running barefeet. We figured if the guy and the truck finished at the exact same point we'd have verification. You should've seen this guy - would have made Bruce Jenner looked like he had chewing gum in his nikes.

But in all seriousness : Stopwatch. Average of 3 runs, two way. Fire crew in the cab did all the timing, based on an ICAO protocol called Form-something. 8.8% improvement in 0-80kph with the "glitch".

No vested interest with doctored stopwatches sitting in them thar million dollar wheelies now, y'hear!


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

OK, now what series does the truck race in, and what were it's winnings during the 05-06 season?

Why measure acceleration? These trucks will never cause whiplash with the pedal down.

Besides, there are plenty of variables in the calculations of acceleration beyond the method of timing used, and the Placebo effect is strong.

It' sjust my luck that your cousin drives a big red truck, but the fact remains that there is no basis for the fuel catalysts to work, and there is plenty of evidence that they do nothing.

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_fitch.shtml

If this goes much further, I'm going hunting for the results of this grant at UConn:

http://advance.uconn.edu/2000/000124/000124gr.htm


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Chansen, I accept your 'apology' and no hard feelings, yes.

Your resolve is inspiring. I am actually beginning to like you as you remind me of a favourite Timex I had . Remember - Takes A Licking, Keeps on Ticking!

Acceleration tests are important as any delays in reaching a crash site can mean the big difference between life and death - you know how aviation fuel burns. 

I am aware of the Harley posting, which you seem to have conveniently lifted from Tilly's thread on the Biofuel's forum. I've already commented on that.

But what is of real interest to me is that directory of academics you came across. Can you actually get some of them interested in this? 

To have someone in the scientific community scrutinize the "glitch" would be highly useful to all of us I believe.

I have to sign off for now. Fish to fry


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

What you've shown me is pictures of a truck with Calski's magnets zip-tied to a line, and blue buckets. I'd much prefer a quick letter from the fleet manager before apologizing for calling you a liar.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Chansen, an apology would be nice, but not necessary. As for any more evidence on the firetruck test I'm afraid that will not be forthcoming. 

The material gleaned from that exercise has been sufficient for me to initiate (and instigate) further trials with several interesting "glitches" and "hitches" that I've been asked to document - which is more than I could have ever hoped for when I began this thread out of genuine curiosity (about a totally different device, if one may recall).

My only regret if any is I'll not be sharing anymore of my merry adventures with planes and trains and hovercrafts on this forum, as I now have to devote my energies to the real work. (As you know, I am not exactly the spring chicken I was once.)

Eventually I shall be sharing the PDF of the "glitch" test with the moderators of this forum (ValBoo) and a couple contributors on this thread who have kept the faith and thus deserve to benefit from the findings. (Their trusty x-trails are no doubt awaiting with bated breath.)

Then I'll leave Marc to decide on whether to rekindle interest in the subject. I've also bowed out of the Biofuels forum as the "glitch" biodiesel test appears to have gone pear-shaped through lack of support.

You have been a prickly pear in my side, my Canadian friend, but the world is a wonderful place made all the more entertaining by debate and discussion, and to be honest I'll miss bantering with those of you halfway across the globe and down under.

My only parting words would be these: There is a lot of useful knowledge flying around the universe right now, and it's really up to the thinking man (and woman) to weigh the consequences of what falls in his lap. 

Unfortunately most of the useful stuff is only known to a handful, and the remaining must make do with leftovers that are often mere scraps of distorted fact. 

A lot of the good information is information you actually have to pay for: the intellectual property laws have made many technologists and inventors smug, even if those same laws have worked to deny us the knowledge that may make a difference in our lives.

Never stop learning!

All the best, 

From the lunatic with the temperamental lawnmower.


Eddie


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

All we can assume is that you got ahold of a truck for a day and got to play around with it. There was no science going on that day - only guys goofing around with a big red truck.

Thanks for the link to the Aussie Biodiesel Forum. They've already done a better job of research than I have. Page 8 of the thread over there clarifies how the results claimed by Fitch were obtained:

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/genera...yst_-_genuine_improvement_or_fake_hype-8.html



tillyfromparadise said:


> Filch Catalyser- Total Rubbish
> 
> Hello Terry,
> Exactly the point. I have read through a number of the tests that Filch use to justify their claims.
> ...


In your reply, you seemed to give up on getting a dyno test (surprise), and indicated that you would be "leaving this forum for good". Over here at nissanforums.com, I still dare
to dream.

The product is a scam, and either you are part of it, or you have drunk too much of the Kool-Aid to see clearly. By this point, I don't even care which. You're restated your baseless claims too many times for me to care about your feelings now.


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

Valboo, might as well remove the degree pics as well. I look terrible, and there is no need for them anymore. The dog is cool, and can stay. The molar probably just scares people.


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

I think the interaction between you two scares people more. Give it a rest, why don't you? If it makes Eddie happy, let him mess with trucks and catalysts and magnets. I can't possibly see it making enough of a difference to cause people to rejoice, but then again wierder things have happened. Mythbusters did a show on the same subject and concluded that "magnets and mystery additives were totally busted". Like we all know, if it's on TV it's got to be true!

And it's TANSTAAFL! Haven't you people read Heinlein?!?

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"- _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, R. Heinlein_


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

I was introduced to "TINSTAAFL". It stuck. The message is the same.

Eddie can mess with what he wants, but by making claims here, he is directly or indirectly promoting a scam.

And don't mess with Mythbusters.


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

Mythbusters might be cool, but there are a lot of things they tend to overlook or accidentally not do when testing things. They're not infallible, but I do get a kick out of the show. 

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a scam right away. It may or may not work on all vehicles(or ANY, for that matter), but that's why the phrase "caveat emptor" prevails in most buyer/seller situations. Let the buyer beware. If it does not work as advertised or promoted, a person can of course go back to the manufacturer for relief and then tell us all about what did or did not happen.

Anyone can make claims that can be discredited or not believed...but they still have that right(or ability, being as internet forums are not controlled by any governmental law). I think you've made a good effort to do the discrediting and Eddie just wants to keep testing to see if it really does work or not. Can we just leave it at that and have a civil conversation now?


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

88pathoffroad said:


> I think you've made a good effort to do the discrediting and Eddie just wants to keep testing to see if it really does work or not. Can we just leave it at that and have a civil conversation now?


I agree with that too. There is no law to stop anyone from testing and there is certainly no law to stop that person from sharing "information"

So far, I have not seen Eddie trying to convince anyone on the forum to rush down to a store and place orders for these and I think every one of us can make their own educated guesses and decisions once the information is there in the open for everyone to review and draw conclusions.

Everyone has some sort of a passion and if Eddie's passion to test and research new things (myths or otherwise) so be it.


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

88pathoffroad said:


> I think you've made a good effort to do the discrediting...


Thanks. The dissemination of lies probably bothers me more than most, so I'm willing to put the effort in. Beyond "effort", I hope I was successful as well.




> ...and Eddie just wants to keep testing to see if it really does work or not. Can we just leave it at that and have a civil conversation now?


If Eddie is to be believed at all, he got free stuff from people who charge hundreds of dollars for their scams. Nigerian email scammers don't send you part of the money first, and these scammers don't just send out free magnets and chunks of metal that fit in you gas tank. They don't make money like that. And they wouldn't do it for testing purposes, because they already have doctored tests on their websites.

There is just way too much that is not right about Eddie's posts. Best case - he wears a tinfoil hat to bed and truly believes he is helping to mitigate an energy crisis, in which case I perhaps should not have come down so hard on him. Worst case - he's working for the bastards, drumming up speculation and interest in the product, and should have been banned after his first post, as Valboo suspected.

Between those two possibilities, I don't see much room for middle ground. So either I have tried to knock some sense into someone who needs professional help, or the bastard has deserved everything he has gotten from me, and then some.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

chansen said:


> Between those two possibilities, I don't see much room for middle ground. So either I have tried to knock some sense into someone who needs professional help, or the bastard has deserved everything he has gotten from me, and then some.


Craig, I am sorry to say this, but I had enough of your continues insults to this member and in return I saw nothing that would warrant such attacks by yourself on him publicly.

This forum has always been known for its friendly atmosphere and this thread in particular (thanks to your continues efforts) has turned it into a name calling, insults throwing and baseless accusations place that not only de-stabilized the whole forum, but got us involved in posts war for no reason.

So far, I have not responded to any of your posts, because they were not addressed to me personally, but I did highlight this concern of mine with Valboo and it seems that you're adamant to continue this for some reason.

You claim that Eddie is working for the "bastards" as you call them, but at the same time you're giving the impression that you applied for the job and didn't get it with the same "bastards" you're attacking! Sorry mate, but your continued negative attitude towards this subject will get someone thinking too. I am just giving you an example of how the table could easily turn and I am not stating that you work for them or anybody else involved in a scam.

I think you have said more than enough and I personally thank you for the resources and information you have provided in this thread, but I would like to make my own decision based on what I see/test myself.

I mean no disrespect to you at all, you sound and look like a nice guy indeed, so let us just continue this discussion in a friendly environment without further insults.

Not to mention the fact that like me, Eddie is a guest on this forum from overseas, so if nothing else, guests deserve to be treated a little bit better than that 

Back on the subject....

If you're concerned that I or any member of this forum would jump at the opportunity to buy this stuff without absolute proof that is will do what is claimed. You're wrong!

Personally I would not pay a cent for this, unless I test it myself and even if I do pay for it (which is highly unlikely) I would ask for a full refund guarantee if it turns out to be nothing but a fuel conditioner found at any local petrol station 

That is the main reason I want to see the test results/report and I can usually tell if they have been doctored tests.

In your defense, I am not entirely happy with the "stop-watch" test Eddie has conducted, as there could have been many variables involved. Example: A pretty lady passing in front of the passenger in that truck which could delay the press on that start trigger by a couple of seconds (or more)!! 

Sorry Ed, but I never relied on a stop watch in any of my 0-100kms test runs, I used a G-Tech


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

I de-stabilized the forum? I didn't let this guy's posts stand. And any comment of yours to Valboo has not made it back to me, so it's not like I was continuing against Valboo's warnings, because there weren't any.



aussietrail said:


> You claim that Eddie is working for the "bastards" as you call them, but at the same time you're giving the impression that you applied for the job and didn't get it with the same "bastards" you're attacking!


Dude, I'm a structural engineer, up to my eyeballs designing concrete, steel and wood structures. I have no need to deceive people. Vehicles are but an interest, as are debunking scams and unthruths. This thread reeked of them. I'm kinda shocked that Valboo was the only other person to approach my level of indignation.

I'm not a "regular" member here. I've mostly lurked ever since we bought the X-Trail, because we haven't had a problem with it, and I didn't have a lot to contribute in way of solutions to other people's problems. But I've always appreciated your posts, and you're obviously a good guy. Almost everyone here is, and that is the reason for the positive atmosphere.

And while people who make 24 little tin pellets for 5 cents each and sell the package for $150 while making outrageous claims, are not "bastards", strictly speaking, what I'd want to call them would be filtered by the forum software anyway, so "bastards" will have to do.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

chansen said:


> And while people who make 24 little tin pellets for 5 cents each and sell the package for $150 while making outrageous claims, are not "bastards", strictly speaking, what I'd want to call them would be filtered by the forum software anyway, so "bastards" will have to do.


LOL, you're a head of me and a head of even Eddie with this, cause you have already priced it. I had no idea how much it does or will cost LOL 

There is always a chance of a group-buy (aka big discounts) 

I am just kidding mate (it's 1:00am here in Sydney) and while I appreciate your passion to debunk scams, you can do so less aggressively. Imagine yourself sitting on the same table as Eddie, Valboo and I in a public place, what would your approach be like to debate this subject without insulting any of us. Now put this into practice here on the forum and please don't tell me you gonna throw plates and spoons at Eddie. hehehe


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

I'd be no less sarcastic, I can tell you that. That is certainly my reputation among friends online and in "rl".

I just looked it up. $150 is the starting point for their "drop-in" packages, with larger packages ranging up to $350. There looks to be 6 drop in pacakges of 4 pellets. Tin is one of the cheaper metals, so 5 cents was a guess. Looking at tin prices, I see it's about $3750/t. cast in 1 oz ingots, that would be about 10 cents each, plus production costs. Correct me if I'm wrong; those are quick-and-dirty numbers. The real price may be double that, plus cardboard packaging, "marketing", "testing" and distribution costs. Each $150 package may cost as much as $10 to produce. How can anyone expect to make money with a tiny 1500% profit margin?


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

chansen said:


> I de-stabilized the forum? I didn't let this guy's posts stand. And any comment of yours to Valboo has not made it back to me, so *it's not like I was continuing against Valboo's warnings, because there weren't any*.
> 
> .................
> 
> And while people who make 24 little tin pellets for 5 cents each and sell the package for $150 while making outrageous claims, *are not "bastards", strictly speaking, what I'd want to call them would be filtered by the forum software anyway, so "bastards" will have to do*.



OH why the "B" word?
Thats insulting and surely doesn't need to be used here, right?


Hints were too subtle perhaps; here it is again:



ValBoo said:


> .....................
> 
> Just to re-iterate when responding to Chansen,
> This is an open Forum, * Leognster's views are welcome *(while not shared or endorsed by all)
> ...


Please guys lets not go over board.



So, Aussietrail, Leongster & Chansen, where are we meeting for beers tonight?
I have never had the chance to go to Singapore; does it sound good to you all?
Don't know how good Singapore beer is, but I'm up for buying the first round


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

Let's change the emphasis a bit.

You wrote, _"...as long as these *don't* go overboard.."_, not that I *had* gone overboard. And I didn't. Calling scammers "bastards" is hardly "going overboard". The "bastard" comment aimed at Eddie was only if he was somehow implicated with the scammers. Again, I'm calling scammers "bastards" - not valued forum members.


Another point: Earlier, you wrote, _"This is an open Forum, Leognster's views are welcome (while not shared or endorsed by all)"_

That's fantastic. Are they shared or endorsed by any?


About that beer...you're in Montreal...hmm...


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

ValBoo said:


> So, Aussietrail, Leongster & Chansen, where are we meeting for beers tonight?
> I have never had the chance to go to Singapore; does it sound good to you all?
> Don't know how good Singapore beer is, but I'm up for buying the first round


Sounds nice and close to me 

Eddie can pick us up from the airport in one of those sexy and fast red fire trucks. hahaha


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

chansen said:


> Let's change the emphasis a bit.
> Another point: Earlier, you wrote, _"This is an open Forum, Leognster's views are welcome (while not shared or endorsed by all)"_
> 
> That's fantastic. Are they shared or endorsed by any?


We're trying to work this out by "sharing" information. No one is yet in a position to endorse the views put forward in this thread until each one of us has access to the information being put forward and in turn can make an educated decision, which of course will be a personal one and not influenced by anybody else!

Holding a beer in Sydney and saying "Cheers" to ya all 

P.S. Thanks for the clarification regarding the "B" word and it is nice of you to assure us that no one in this forum was meant by it.


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

aussietrail said:


> P.S. Thanks for the clarification regarding the "B" word and it is nice of you to assure us that no one in this forum was meant by it.


That's not _entirely _true, of course. If Eddie is involved with the scammers, he more than deserves the title. I still hold out hope that he's simply playing the round without a full set of irons.


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