# How much camber to run?



## Lerlo (Jul 21, 2004)

Hi guys,
Im from singapore and Ive got an N16 with a QG16 engine. I think its about the same as your sentras and was wondering if you guys suffer from understeer. 
I got my camber adjusted to about -1.35 degrees and 0 degree of toe and im still getting understeer. 
Was wondering did i do the right thing by adjusting my camber?
How much camber do u guys run?


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

what kind of suspension upgrades are you running? do you have a rear sway bar? aftermarket struts and springs?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

I don't think changing the alignment alone is enough to correct for understeer with a front engine fwd car.


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## Lerlo (Jul 21, 2004)

I think my car comes stock with sway bars.
Im using aftermarket sport springs.
I was just wondering, is -1.35 of camber too much for a road car?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

no just be sure to rotate the tires. i'm running -1 on front corners too.

stock sway bars are hollow and only in the front I believe... don't know how Singapore is. That will cause understeer too.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

every car comes stock with sway bars.........doesn't mean they're worth a damn.

any fwd car will have tons of understeer. hell, I drove RWD mercedes that had a bit of understeer. you need to look into aftermarket sway bar components and struts.


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

I'm running about -3.25° camber in front, -2° camber in rear, 0 toe front and back. Driven poorly, it can still understeer.

The best change you can make is a rear sway bar. A big fat one like Progress if you can.

At -2.3° camber up front it was better than -1.3° but going over 3 made a huge difference as far as cornering power.

And yes, camber *does* eat tires. In my opinion, anyone who disagrees doesn't drive enough.

G


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## Lerlo (Jul 21, 2004)

Hmmmmmm, how about if i run some toe out, that sould help right?
My car has a beam kinda rear suspension, i dont know whats it called. Do you think they make sawy bars for it?
Or maybe i should take my stock front swaybars out.
I was driving my friend's toyota vitz/echo, i dont know what you call it over there, and it had really predictable off-power oversteer that was great! but I could that that kinda handling from my car.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

Lerlo said:


> Hmmmmmm, how about if i run some toe out, that sould help right?
> My car has a beam kinda rear suspension, i dont know whats it called. Do you think they make sawy bars for it?
> Or maybe i should take my stock front swaybars out.
> I was driving my friend's toyota vitz/echo, i dont know what you call it over there, and it had really predictable off-power oversteer that was great! but I could that that kinda handling from my car.


Back up for a second. Do you have front and rear strut tower braces? If your chassis isn't braced, you will get terrible understeer regardless of how thick a rear antisway bar you run.


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

_Hmmmmmm, how about if i run some toe out, that sould help right?_

Toe out in the front (say, 1/8" or so) will improve initial "turn-in", while making the car a bit twitchy on the road. You will get used to it.

Toe out on the rear (say, 1/16" or so), will affect the whole corner, you will feel the back end want to "come around" a bit. A bit weird on the highway on sharper corners, but can give you nice amounts of rotation. I ran 1/4" toe out on the rear for about 6 months. Any kind of corner was constant correction - turn into the corner, then stop the back from coming out, then back into the corner, then stop the back from coming out.

Toe obliterates tires.

_My car has a beam kinda rear suspension, i dont know whats it called. Do you think they make sawy bars for it?_

Yes they do.

_Or maybe i should take my stock front swaybars out._

That will make the steering feel very mushy, not responsive at all. It may reduce understeer, but I don't think you will like the feel of it.

Interestingly, the fastest Honda's (double wishbone) usually take the front bar off, while Rabbits/Sciroccos and others (MacPherson strut) put large front bars on. With struts, it seems that reducing the camber change from body roll with a big front bar can actually reduce understeer, while with double wishbone, since it has a good camber curve, does not need the bar.

Interestingly, I used to run a Suspension Techniques front bar on my B13. This bar was designed to "bind" the front suspension and make the front artificially stiffer. When I swapped back to the OEM front bar, it didn't make much difference in the way of oversteer/understeer. I was, however, able to put power down out of the corner much better.

G


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## Lerlo (Jul 21, 2004)

Oh wow, thanks for the info skinny, I think ill go get some toe out for my car.
There isnt a market here for car mods so i dont think i can get aftermarket swaybars, and cars here are too damn expensive, you aint got the money to do serious stuff to it after the purchase.
My cars a sentra (called sunny over here) 1.6L and it costs about 50k american dollars.
Thanks again, Ill do what i can, i guess.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

Lerlo said:


> Oh wow, thanks for the info skinny, I think ill go get some toe out for my car.
> There isnt a market here for car mods so i dont think i can get aftermarket swaybars, and cars here are too damn expensive, you aint got the money to do serious stuff to it after the purchase.
> My cars a sentra (called sunny over here) 1.6L and it costs about *50k american dollars*.
> Thanks again, Ill do what i can, i guess.


actually they cost much less than that... maybe 50k singapore dollars but 50k american dollars is some sentra!


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## Lerlo (Jul 21, 2004)

It cost 77k singapore dollars. How much does a 1.8 sentra cost in america?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

like 22000US I think can get you a fully loaded top of the line sentra.


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## Flying Vv (Apr 10, 2003)

thats spec-v too. a sentra 1.8 fully loaded will run you about 14500US to 16000US


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## Lerlo (Jul 21, 2004)

By the way...what is Cat-Back exhaust.
I got a aftermarket header and muffler and took out my cat, is this cat back?


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

Lerlo said:


> By the way...what is Cat-Back exhaust.
> I got a aftermarket header and muffler and took out my cat, is this cat back?


A "cat-back" exhaust is a replacement exhaust meant to replace the exhaust piping behind the catalytic converter.

Speaking of cat-back, please put the cat back on your car. It's not helping with power, you're filling the air with disgusting smelling smoke, and above all else, you're killing the environment.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

Flying V said:


> thats spec-v too. a sentra 1.8 fully loaded will run you about 14500US to 16000US


what????

I could walk out a dealer door with a loaded spec v for 15k!

I bought my GXE (1.8s) for 12,900 brand new!!!


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## Flying Vv (Apr 10, 2003)

huh, i bought mine brand new no trade in though. it also has the 6yr 100k warranty on it. 


you got a great deal on your GXE. too bad its not turbo any more becuase it was way faster than a spec for about the same price, if not a little more


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## Lerlo (Jul 21, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> A "cat-back" exhaust is a replacement exhaust meant to replace the exhaust piping behind the catalytic converter.
> 
> Speaking of cat-back, please put the cat back on your car. It's not helping with power, you're filling the air with disgusting smelling smoke, and above all else, you're killing the environment.


Hi, i thought i would get more power running straight thru without a cat because of less restriction.
Anyway, now im suffering from really high fuel comsumption. Does the QG engine require a cat for proper air fuel managment?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

yes it does, i think the qg uses a wideband O2 sensor so it's gotta be very sensitive to running without the cat.


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## Lerlo (Jul 21, 2004)

James said:


> yes it does, i think the qg uses a wideband O2 sensor so it's gotta be very sensitive to running without the cat.


Oh really?
Hmmm, would it help if i got a high flow cat?
I cant live without my top end......


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