# OK guys, How do i answer this question boys?



## WMengineering (Mar 11, 2003)

*OK, How do i answer this question boys?*

ok..heres the question from someone on my honda site. and id like it if you could all go ahead and post any response to this. then ill use this thread as a link when i answer him.....thanks guys, MIKE
(remember, the car is an 89 sentra SE)
heres the link
http://pub143.ezboard.com/fhondadseriesfrm9.showMessage?topicID=419.topic

be nice tho guys....thanks again.


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Move up a step? More like selling yourself short. The CA will bolt right in while the GA will give you many headaches. Here's the stock specs on the two motors:

CA18DE 125hp/6400rpm 115ftlbs/4800rpm
GA16DE 110hp/6000rpm 108ftlbs/4000rpm

Also, the CA18DE uses a tappet/shim valve train while the GA uses rocker arms. The CA is capable of some whicked revs, in excess of 8k. The CA is also a much stronger engine. I see alot of talk about no aftermarket support for the CA. This is true, you aren't going to find alot of boxed bolt on mods for this engine. However, anyone really serious about upgrading their engine is going to have custom work done. There are plenty of places that can work the CA's internals. The stock manifold on the CA is a 4-2-1 crossover design, not a 2-1. I have some pics of my engine here, you can see the manifold: http://www31.brinkster.com/myb11baby/MYCA18DE.htm

I may be dreaming but my goal is to reach 200hp with all engine. For starters, I'm gonna have it bored/stroked to 2.0L, reground cams, upgraded valve train, ported/polished, 11:1 or better pistons, custom extractor, upgraded fuel system and engine management.

Not trying to slam our Honda brethren  but he's talking from a lack of knowledge. Same is true here, I would not presume to give any advice on Honda engines...foreign (enemy) territory


----------



## WMengineering (Mar 11, 2003)

yea i love the pics man, thanks for responding (again!!!!)
myetball for administrator! (lol that should stir the pot)
ok anyone else got anything to say about the ga16de vs ca18de?


----------



## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

Myetball is wrong on 1 thing !! there is alot (not like here) of aftermarket for the Ca18de/t around... Japs !!.... those aftermarket arent toys thats why most people dont find them !!... they just dont search well !! try only JUN in japan !!... those aint funky cold air intake !! like the shitty vibrant and such...BTW i dont even think they would sell any low priced stock... the sell CAMs, turbos, engine management.. costom works... thats the TRUE and only aftermarket you should be looking for when upgrading an engine !!... unless you want it to look good... a performance CAM wont make it look good... the youll look good when your car is gonna pass some all-show no-go cars !!.... the GA still got pretty good stuff to built it disponible since a couple years now... CA as been tuned for serious HP since 10-15 years now !! 

BTW i havent read the link yet sorry!! lol


----------



## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

hey myetball,

is the CA18DE stronger/better than the SR20DE how about when going turbo?

also, how much will all those 'all engine' mods run you?


----------



## James (Apr 29, 2002)

ask boost_boy... or do a search of his old posts


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

I would go with JUN products but I can't justify spending $1,300 on a set of cams, almost $1,600 with adjustable cam gears, when I can get them reground with nickle-chrome lobes for $210 each. Some places still carry a few JUN parts and can order them for you or you can order direct from JUN. Since JUN America closed down you would have to get them shipped from Japan.

http://www.nissanforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16218&highlight=interesting+jun

I'm looking at about 2k for the engine internals. Stroker kit, cams, valvtrain, head work.

boost has replied extensively on the engine comparison. The CA has a cast block while the SR has an alloy block. Both engines have their good points.


----------



## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

your right on the price Myetball but like i tend to think... its not everyone that are knowing all those faqs...about cam regrind,plating/micro polish, nitriding stuff ect.... it was only to make a point whera most aftermarket for Ca18de/t was about real HP gain rather than random design go fast bits that sells cheap by some new/cash intended ratherr than performance interested company... you know wath i mean....Ca18 engine are for stock use or ultimate racing...a Jun cam is optimal where the regrind is optimistic... unless you know exactly wath to grind and how much (or the company got a master wich would be the same as such company like Jun who did years of research into the engine) .... most of the time you get good stuff anyway by custom, like the cam regrind as long as you know waths good and not so good....but youll find nothing made into America for that engine thats based on long term research/aka pre-ground cams... ect...

 2grand is a nice project on an NA !! hope youll get us some photos !! 

And ya xXb12RacerXx, with the search youll get probably hundreds of hrs of readings on SR-vs-CA engine .... but most every one agrees that they both got pros and cons... its most likely your desire and budget that will settle between the 2...


----------



## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

Btw myetball / boostboy dont you know any American company that make such pieces ?? or that did work out this engine ??... maybe a racing team or such ??


----------



## WMengineering (Mar 11, 2003)

*ok thats fine and dandy....*

can we get back to my orginal post and question please. this isnt about the sr20. i want to post this link on my honda site so they can see what real B12 nissans guys are all about. so please. make yourselves look good for my sake, because i have built you ppl up to a degree. thanks again,
MIKE


----------



## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

lol, hey man, you or we don't need to say anythingabout the SR20DET, that bad boy speaks for itself, and most HA(honda, acura) boys know whats up with the SR20DET...i know a few people here locally who own CRX's and are doing the usual acura 1.8L swap in their rides, i told em about my plans for SR20DET and they knew instatly what that was, they even praised it, and these guys are big in the honda sceen.

i've heard before that the SR20DET was the something like the 'king of 4cyl FF cars'...however if anyone can get some specs up or comparisons of honda motors vs. nissan motors that would be awesome and would infact that would do most of the 'talking'


----------



## WMengineering (Mar 11, 2003)

again. if you take the time to read the link on the orginal post. i am not asking anything about the sr20de(or turbo)
yes i know the sr20det is the holy grail of nissan bla bla bla...and so on.....


look thanks myetball. you been a great help
is there anyone else whom can contribute to the ca18de vs GA16de question.?


----------



## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

uhh no...meyetball said it all...


----------



## WMengineering (Mar 11, 2003)

*so let me get this straight*



> Ca18 engine are for stock use or ultimate racing


ok let me get this straight....A ca18de, with a custom intake, 2in" custom exhuast, maybe a header(if i can find one), and a mild shot of n2o is not a good idea?(are these tidbits?)
uh how much does my car weigh again?(89 SE hatch)
so unless i go with "ultimate race" jun cams for 12 hundred dollars its better left stock? doubtful.

btw myetball. i just gave you a "shot out" and used your qoute on my honda board dseries.org
hope you dont mind and thanks again man,
MIKE
http://pub143.ezboard.com/fhondadseriesfrm9.showMessage?topicID=419.topic


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Check your PM


----------



## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

Hmmmm, pretty intersting post! Comparing the CA18 to the GA16DE is a slaughter! The GA16DE is more inline with the performance of the CA16DE which will run rings around the GA16DE and I have proven this over and over again. Thought the local aftermarket is not as vast as that of the GA16DE or any other nissan motor that every kid and his buddy dreams, it still has a healthy following in european and asian markets. I for one am using a full JUN outfit on my head which consists of solid lifters, 272* cams with a 10.5mm lift and JUN valve springs. If you want the good stuff, it's going to cost. I've said my piece on the SR20 -vs- a CA18 and I'll say this about a GA16De -vs- either the high revvin CA16DE or the high mph pulling CA18DE, "It doesn't have a chance". You boost the GA16DE and I'll boost the CA16DE and we'll go pound for pound and it will be a no contest affair. The CA18DE will definitely fair very well over the GA16DE and the CA16DE.


> yes i know the sr20det is the holy grail of nissan bla bla bla


 In some kids eyes, Yes! It is also the one with the weakest links (get that, I said links). And if most nissan followers knew anything, they would instantaneously know what I'm talking about. Honda motors and their VTEC functions are cool, but they carry a cult like our beloved SR. True enthusiast would understand the significant advantages of the CA -vs-SR-vs-GA and especially installing them a in a b12 sentra! I can guarantee you all this, if I built a 500whp CA18DET, -vs- a 200whp GA16DET -vs- a 500whp SR20DET guess which will live long and prosper minus breaking a gear or popping a rocker arm!!


----------



## WMengineering (Mar 11, 2003)

> Honda motors and their VTEC functions are cool, but they carry a cult like our beloved SR.


boost boy. you are a smart man. i am a die hard honda guy. notice i did not say "vtec" guy. 
(also look wich honda engines i prefer, specifically the single cammers) hehe. 
kudos for boost-boy, for thinking logically. not thinking with the crowd.

(btw what i meant about "holy grail" was completely sarcastic. i do that alot and sometimes its hard to pick up on when typed. ppl recomend going to a sr20 swap, like honda guys say go to a b-series, for any question you can ask. but its nice to know it happens every were. im wondeirng if i go to a toyota site what they will tell me to swap into a corolla....a 3s-gte perhaps? or maybe a 2jz lol)

needless to say but i am pumped up about my up comming ca18 swap(that i learned about on here. until then, i assumed sr20 was my only option) and wil keep you all posted..thanks again, 
MIKE


----------



## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

Thanks Mike! It's just so sad to see guys spending money on something just because the rest of the klan is talking about spending there's on it! I totally understood your "Holy Grail" theory and though you say you were being sarcastic, I am dead-ass serious! I see too many young kids stuck on the hype of a B18C, a B16A, B20, H22 and the infamous SR20. They gotta have them, they get them and mess them up. I'll say the honda gearboxes seem to hold up better than the SR20's does and by a long shot as well. I'm into engines that have simple, yet sophisticated valve trains as opposed to rocker arms and shims and tappets and things of that nature. I enjoy the function of a timing belt, but don't understand why honda uses the timing belt to turn the water pump (Talk about parasitic power loss). I fell in love with the CA back in 1991 and have followed it since. After heavy research, I concluded that the SR20 was waaayyyy to clumsy of a motor for me to stick in my B12 and mainly because of it's strange design and timing chain. Don't get me wrong, it's a good motor, but they are over-priced and over-hyped! I'll bet that there's not too many FWD SR20 powered vehicles that can run with me on the top end. The key to the Sr20's success on the streets is it's gearbox. It's close ratio compliments the engine's linear power band, but sucks on the top end. Though the CA18 is a smaller engine, mate the CA16DE's tranny to the CA18DE and the rules of engagement will change quickly. Hope you enjoy your swap............

Dee


----------



## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

well there go my plans out the window....new paper!

btw, what would be the top end on a 500 whp driven SR20DET vs. a 500 whp driven CA18DET if they both had proper gearing? have you driven a 500whp sentra? how do you keep from breaking the axels?


----------



## 2000gsr (May 1, 2003)

I FEEL SORRY 4 MY SELF..., CAUSE I THINK I KNOW SOME ABOUT CARS, AND I T SEEMS I KNOW A SHIT...


----------



## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

> btw, what would be the top end on a 500 whp driven SR20DET vs. a 500 whp driven CA18DET if they both had proper gearing?


 Maybe 165mph for the SR, but you will be pushing it. There's no proper gearing for the SR, you get what you got. The CA18DET will probably see speeds close to 200mph and all depends on who's driving it and if they are using brass balls instead of testicles. You won't break the CA18's axles on street tires especially on the streets because you will have massive wheel spin. I have yet to break an axle or tranny and my car was producing nearly 400hp at the crank daily!


----------



## WMengineering (Mar 11, 2003)

> It's just so sad to see guys spending money on something just because the rest of the klan is talking about spending there's on it! (edit)..... I see too many young kids stuck on the hype of a B18C, a B16A, B20, H22 and the infamous SR20.


yes, boostboy you are right on the money. i almost wish you were a honda guy now. free thinking honda guys are few and far between. thank god for my sentra then i guess!!!!
keep up the good work, i praise engineering..not vtec, and not popular alpha-numeric soup. b18 or sr20de alike. as long as you understand it, then go for it. otherwise shut up and learn why you think you want this. 

noteoriginally i wanted to know if i could do a ka24e swap. now that would be outside the box! ya nvr here the kid around the corner touting nissans holy grail truck motor!)


----------



## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

> noteoriginally i wanted to know if i could do a ka24e swap. now that would be outside the box! ya nvr here the kid around the corner touting nissans holy grail truck motor!)


 I remember your post on the KA topic. You know it can be done if you really want this motor. I can justify using this motor in a B12 over the SR if you care to be different (You sure as heck will feel the difference). And you have a variety of gearboxes to play with as well, without worrying about a 3rd, 4th or the infamous 5th gear pop-out that the SR gearboxes leave you with.


----------



## WMengineering (Mar 11, 2003)

well, i think that after wieghing out the differences between the KA and CA motors, and looking what would have to be done for the KA swap, the CA motor seems logically the better step for what i have planned for this car. before i had no knowledge this motor even exsisted, and the drop in nature and the charactoristics of the CA i think will benifit me for what im looking at for the car.(not to say i wouldnt absolutly love the tree stump pulling nature of the ka24 smoking my frnt tires at will with every 2nd to 3rd gear shift) but the cost of the CA18de swap is basically the biggest factor. i have my civic, and an fd3s soon on the way, and the b12 is going to be my "fun" car. the CA motor is what i need.
now if i can just find a spare 400 bucks lieing around. 
id just have to say that i fell in love with myetballs pics of that nice compact dohc red valve cover sitting in the red engine bay. this will be my lowly unsuspecting sentra soon.)


----------



## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

yeah, i guess im just one of those idiots spouting off about the SR20DET...i'd like to drive a blown b12 with both a SR20DET and a CA18DET, just to see the difference, than pick...


----------



## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

One of the biggest things is, most of the younger nissan bunch knew nothing of this motor or the fact that way back in 1988, the CA18DE was producing [email protected] as well as 115lb/ft of [email protected] Which made it to be possibly the most strongest motor (for it's displacement) of it's era. It only gives up the extra 15hp and 17lb/ft of tq to the SR20 just because of size, but if you have driven cars with both motors, you will know that they are two totally different motors all together. Remember, the CA18's design is what inspired nissan design on the RB series motor to include the beloved RB26DETT, the RB25DET and the RB20DET. If you looked at them closely, they all look the same except the CA is missing 2 cylinders. They all have the revving characteristics being able to rev really high with the least amount of effort. The CA shares oil filters, crank angles sensors and ignitors with the VQ45, all Rb series motors, all VG series motors, KA series motors, GA16's and so forth whereas the SR has it's own filter (not economical IMO). The Sr produces power early wheras the CA produces power a bit later in the power band, but both can get the job done. I went with the more efficient, more easier serviced and less popular motor because it was cheaper and it was forgotten and it looked good under my hood. Now I know I have a small, but very potent power plant that have put some of the bigger dogs to shame less me spending a bunch of money because it's the more popular and newer motor. SR20's are around 13 years old, so they aren't that new, but why is people still selling them for so much????????


----------



## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

they are so much because of what you have just said, the CA18DE was not well known, and the sr20de was hailed from its begining and thats probly why...

besides, isnt there a big wieght difference between the alloy block and the steel or whatever the CA's made of?


----------



## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

> besides, isnt there a big wieght difference between the alloy block and the steel or whatever the CA's made of?


 very little weight difference! The SR might be a bit heavier, but I cannot confirm this. However, the SR is taller and is considered to be the bigger of the two.


----------



## WMengineering (Mar 11, 2003)

> SR20's are around 13 years old, so they aren't that new, but why is people still selling them for so much????????


same reason a 13 year old b16 costs 12hun....(rolls eyes)


----------



## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

so the CA18DE, if bored out to 2.0L's, will preform more or less better than the SR20DE?


----------



## Mervic (May 1, 2002)

boost_boy said:


> *One of the biggest things is, most of the younger nissan bunch knew nothing of this motor or the fact that way back in 1988, the CA18DE was producing [email protected] as well as 115lb/ft of [email protected] Which made it to be possibly the most strongest motor (for it's displacement) of it's era. *


Hey boost, I could not agree with you more. I bought my Pulsar back in 89, I was 16 back then. I knew nothing of engine or the CA18DE is better than GA16i. Of course I got the GA16i since it is cheaper. I always think that the CA is the little brother of the RB, just look at the CAS on both engine, almost identical.


----------



## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

> just look at the CAS on both engine, almost identical.


 They are and the CA is actually the RB's daddy, since the RB got it's design from thew CA.


----------

