# B12 SR20DE Swap Manual



## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

*PLEASE KEEP THE THREAD CLEAN, OUT OF COMMENTS. ITS SUPPOSE TO BE A TECHNICAL THREAD !! * 


Hey all board members,

So far the b12 is stripped down to nearly it's shell. The wire-harness is completley stripped from steering wheel forward. The engine is pulled along with radiators, headers, and all surrounding electrical components. The entire front Suspension from a-arms to struts and axels are also stripped.

My fun starts tomorow when I begin breaking apart the black widow infested se-r with Tom "Webfoot" and his son Jeremy "Nissan Killer"...However, Here are a few issues I was hoping someone could help me with. 

1) Do I use the B12's or B13 tie rods?

2) Do I use the B12's or B13's Linkage?

3) What do I do with the motor mounts on the B12? Which ones stay and which ones go.

4) What do I do with the Brake Lines when transfering the brake booster from the B13 to the B12?

5) Do I use the B13's cross member or the B12's?


Ok, that's all I can think of right now. Thanks for your help!


Greg "Oregon Toker"


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## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> *
> 1) Do I use the B12's or B13 tie rods?
> 
> Are you using the B12 or 13 knuckles. Use the tie rods that match the knuckles.
> ...


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> *
> 1) Do I use the B12's or B13 tie rods?
> 
> 2) Do I use the B12's or B13's Linkage?
> ...



Why did you remove the wiring harness? You are making ALOT more work for yourself. All you need is the Engine harness for the SR. You will need to tie into 6-7 wires to start the car. Put the harness back. Feed the SR harness through and do a little wiring. Use existing factory wiring, fuses and relays. It's the easiest way, I guarantee it.

1.) I used the B12 tie rods and rack w/ B13 hubs and brakes.

2.) I used the B12 shifter linkage, but I had to cut it and lengthen it about 2 inches. You will also need to lengthen the exhaust pipe by 2-3 inches to mate to the SE-R header. I used the B12 throttle cable and clutch cable.

3.) The only B12 mount I used was the passenger side mount. I made a bracket to adapt it to the SR20. Charles has another technique which is probably the easiets and most effective for motor mount upgrades. This is documented in NPM. You can use the B12 front dogbone if you have the GA16i. The JWT solid SR20 mounts uses the same style dogbone, just with a harder rubber. I had to lengthen the mounting points from the radiator support to allow the dogbone to mount to the SR correctly. For the tranny mount I drilled a 1/8" plate of mild steel and bolted the SR tranny mount to it and bolted it to the frame using existing bolt holes for the GA mount.

4.) Upgrading to the SE-R master cylinder is only a good idea if you have upgraded the rear drums to discs. Otherwise proportioning will be off. If you are just going to swap the boosters, it'll bolt right up. B12 brake lines will work fine with SE-R front brakes. Use whatever is in teh best condition.

5.)I used the B12 crossmember. Center the engine in the bay and build a piece of square channel to support the mount where it needs to be. Then weld and attatch the dogbone. These two mounts absorb the most torque of the engine. Once these are done, make the other two mounts. I beleive Charles used a hybrid B12/B13 crossmember, or maybe the whole B13, not for sure.

Please someone make this a STICKY. My fingers tire from typing this very often to inquiring minds.

John


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## Webfoot (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Re: B12 SR20DE Swap Manual*



Nismodriver said:


> * 4.) Upgrading to the SE-R master cylinder is only a good idea if you have upgraded the rear drums to discs. Otherwise proportioning will be off. If you are just going to swap the boosters, it'll bolt right up. B12 brake lines will work fine with SE-R front brakes. Use whatever is in teh best condition.
> 
> Please someone make this a STICKY. My fingers tire from typing this very often to inquiring minds.
> 
> John *


what mods are necasary for the rear disc conversion? Assuming that we use parts from the SER. The rear swaybar on the SER is tiny.


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

The B13 uses a trailing arm and control arms to the hub, w/ a seperate rear sway bar. The B12 uses a Swaybar/trailing arm all in one. I simply took the B13 trailing arm measured and cut the trailing arm, then cut the B12 swaybar/trailing arm and welded them together. Then I used the wholeB13 hub and brakes. They bolt to the strut and factory control arms. You'll have to swap to B13 brake lines and master cylinder. It will require some rebending of the lines for the master cylinder, but it's not to hard. 

Due to the nature of this mod, you are changing the desing from it's original intent. I can't be held responsible for any damages or messups if you attempt this. 

Please also be aware that if this is not performed correctly, there could be problems w/ alignment and wheels rubbing. Good luck!

John


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

*Re: Re: B12 SR20DE Swap Manual*

Hey John, 

The reason I took out the whole harness is because I thought I had to. If it would make things simpler, I could go pull another harness off a b12 and intall that...do you think that would that make the wireing thing easier? 

Out of the blue though, has anyone tried putting an SE-R dash on a B12? 



1.) I used the B12 tie rods and rack w/ B13 hubs and brakes.

That's what I am doing I believe.


2.) I used the B12 shifter linkage, but I had to cut it and lengthen it about 2 inches. You will also need to lengthen the exhaust pipe by 2-3 inches to mate to the SE-R header. I used the B12 throttle cable and clutch cable.

Will the SE-R linkage work? And how do i get the B12's throttle cable and clutch cable to reach?


3.) The only B12 mount I used was the passenger side mount. 

Yes I have seen charles' technique and will probobly do the same. 


4.) Upgrading to the SE-R master cylinder is only a good idea if you have upgraded the rear drums to discs. Otherwise proportioning will be off. If you are just going to swap the boosters, it'll bolt right up. B12 brake lines will work fine with SE-R front brakes. Use whatever is in teh best condition.

If i plan on going to disc in the rear...should i do the master cylinder swap now or later? In other words, before or after the engine is in place? If so, than what do I need to do? How do I change out the master cylinder?


5.)I used the B12 crossmember. Center the engine in the bay and build a piece of square channel to support the mount where it needs to be. Then weld and attatch the dogbone. These two mounts absorb the most torque of the engine. Once these are done, make the other two mounts. I beleive Charles used a hybrid B12/B13 crossmember, or maybe the whole B13, not for sure.

Does anyone know if the B13 Bolts right in? I will try soon just to find out but it woudl be nice to know now.



Thanks for your help all!

Greg


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: B12 SR20DE Swap Manual*



xXB12RacerXx said:


> *Hey John,
> 
> The reason I took out the whole harness is because I thought I had to. If it would make things simpler, I could go pull another harness off a b12 and intall that...do you think that would that make the wireing thing easier?
> 
> ...


Using the factory wiring will be easier. How ever since you have it out, you can only reinstall what you need, making for a cleaner install and a lighter vehicle.

Charles mentioned he had seen a B13 dash in a B12. How well it fits I don't know.

The SE-R linkage may work, I never tried it. Our shifters are designed differently though. It was easier to cut and weld in the extension than to try and fabricate the B13 to work, so again, I don't know what it would take. The clutch cable and throttle cable require no modification. You will have to modify the throttle cable bracket on teh intake manifold slightly though. ( I moved it over one bolt hole.)

Do the master cylinder when you do the brakes. Otherwise it is UNSAFE. No offense, but you are attempting to do an SR swap and don't know how to change a master cylinder? Investing in a FSM or at least a Chilton/Haynes manual for both cars would be advisable.

The B13 crossmember is not a direct bolt in. Modification to the mounting points of the car must be made.

John


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

I'm actually going to see if I can't get the se-r's entire rear suspension/brake assembly to mount up to the b12, also i will be changing out master cylinder, brake booster and rebend the lines.

than I will drop the shift lever, yolk, and linkage out of the se-r and try to put that in the b12. the crossmember from the se-r will also be adapted to fit the b12 along with the passenger side motor mount. 

in the meantime, the exhaust is coming completly off and thanks to my mother and father not getting along, i get to register the car down in corvallis and drive it up here. only thing is it will only have factory headers on it...hmmm...sounds like fun


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## Webfoot (Apr 24, 2003)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> *I'm actually going to see if I can't get the se-r's entire rear suspension/brake assembly to mount up to the b12, also i will be changing out master cylinder, brake booster and rebend the lines.
> 
> than I will drop the shift lever, yolk, and linkage out of the se-r and try to put that in the b12. the crossmember from the se-r will also be adapted to fit the b12 along with the passenger side motor mount.
> 
> in the meantime, the exhaust is coming completly off and thanks to my mother and father not getting along, i get to register the car down in corvallis and drive it up here. only thing is it will only have factory headers on it...hmmm...sounds like fun  *


Lets bag on the rear disc setup. Too much suspension to mod. Besides, your B12 front/rear is designed to go together. I think it best to build what you have. The booster swap will be finefor now. 
Work on that wire harness and getting the engine ready. How much PITA is involved in changing timing belts on an sr20?


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

*Power Steering Option*

Hey John,

Just out of curiosity, what did you do about powersteering on the SR20? Did you keep the B12's rack and pinion steering setup or did your sentra have power steering to begin with? 

Thanks,

Greg


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: Power Steering Option*



xXB12RacerXx said:


> *Hey John,
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what did you do about powersteering on the SR20? Did you keep the B12's rack and pinion steering setup or did your sentra have power steering to begin with?
> 
> ...


Just stick with the b12 rack and pinion. It will make the swap alot easier. You can either remove the guts from the ps pump and weld it closed or get a power steering eliminator idler pulley and bracket. (look on sr20forum for this.) The later would be the easiest.


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

[ 


> The entire front Suspension from a-arms to struts and axels are also stripped.


Keep th eb12 a arms and struts for the time being. Bolt the se-r hub assembly to these. 




> 1) Do I use the B12's or B13 tie rods?


Use the b12 rack and pinion with tie rods. 



> 2) Do I use the B12's or B13's Linkage?


The Se-R shift linkage will not fit. What I did was used the 3/4's of the b12 shift linkage and stabilizer and welded it to the last few inches of the se-r linkages, which attach to the trani. Do this after you have the engine and trani mounted in so you can get the lengths right. 



> 3) What do I do with the motor mounts on the B12? Which ones stay and which ones go.


I used none of the b12 motor mounts. Other people have used a combination of b12 and b13 mounts. Do which ever is easier. 




> 4) What do I do with the Brake Lines when transfering the brake booster from the B13 to the B12?


Dont mess with the brakes until you have completed the engine swap, you will make the project too big and never get done. 




> 5) Do I use the B13's cross member or the B12's?


I used the b13 cross member and welded the rear to the body fabricating an adapter bracket. The fron I drilled two holes so that I could bolt it in place. The SE-R cross member will not bolt up to the b12 chassis. 

It seems that John may have a better method for the shade tree machanic who may not have access to a welder. I would exploe using the b12 crossmember and fabricating the b13 mounts to them.


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> *I'm actually going to see if I can't get the se-r's entire rear suspension/brake assembly to mount up to the b12,
> *


The rear trailing arm of the se-r has no where to bolt on the b12 chassis. The se-r parrallel arms are actually longer than the b12 arms and will not work. But again, dont mess with any of that stuff until you have the car running. Notice on Project B12 the suspension swaps and brake modifications didnt come till much later. It is essential to stay focused on the task at hand, shoehorning that big ass motor in the b12.


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

Greg,
About the radiator. I cut off the lower radiator brackets from the se-r frame and welded them to the b12. The top mounts are a bit easier. Just unbolt the upper mounts from the b13, mount them by drilling holes and using nuts and bolts. The se-r radiator will sit with the top tilted slighty forward underneath the front upper frame. 

Another option which was done by kevin in the Netherlands, was to just use a diesel sentra radiator. Apparently it is thicker and has better cooling capacity. The e15t radiator might also be worth checking out, if it is a bolt in.


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

*Linkage*

Wow, thanks hybrid, all great stuff really. I got most of this but I am however a little concerned and confused with the whole linkage thing. 

Is it possible though, to use the entire B13 linkage, yolk, and shift lever?

Thanks!


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

*Motor Mount Issuse*

Ok, there is a motor mount is the B12 right above the crossmember mount. What is done with this mount?

Thanks!


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: Linkage*



xXB12RacerXx said:


> *Wow, thanks hybrid, all great stuff really. I got most of this but I am however a little concerned and confused with the whole linkage thing.
> 
> Is it possible though, to use the entire B13 linkage, yolk, and shift lever?
> 
> Thanks! *


no.


You will either have to lengthen the the b12 unit like john did. Or cut the ends off the b13 linkages with a good amount of linkage still on it. Then cut the ends of the b12 linkage and weld the b13 ends to the b12 linkage. 

b12 linkage
*==========*}CUT{===O <----bushing that fits to trani
keep bolded portion (left side)

b13 linkage
=========}CUT{*====O*
keep bolded portion (right side)

Weld two bolded portion together at right length
b12 linkages ---> *============::====O* <--- b13 end

( :: are welds)


or John's method (lengthening the b12 linkages to fit)

(shifter end)===================O <-----bushing that fits to trani

=========}CUT{==========O


=========::Weld longer pipe::=========O


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: Heater Core*



xXB12RacerXx said:


> *What happens with the heater core? is that switched out or do I keep my old one?
> 
> Thanks! *


you keep yours in place. Later if you are lucky and have room between the intake manifold and the fire wall, you will connect the coolent lines off the sr20 to the heater core ports in the fire wall.


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: Power Steering*



xXB12RacerXx said:


> *I read about the p/s elim. kit...looks good but way pricey what is the other way of taking it off, and what do i do about belts?
> 
> Thanks! *


If you remove the guts to the ps pump, (the parts that make it pump), the pump will just become an idler pulley. The belt will still be on there and the pulley will still spin, it just wont push any fluid. You will have to weld one end closed and i believe bolt the other end. Be sure to put some fluid in there before closing it up.


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: Motor Mount Issuse*



xXB12RacerXx said:


> *Ok, there is a motor mount is the B12 right above the crossmember mount. What is done with this mount?
> 
> Thanks! *


i dont know the details of this method, ask john.


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Power Steering*



Webfoot said:


> *does there need to be power steering fluid in the pump to keep it lubricated? *


yes


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## Webfoot (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Smog Pump/Emisions Control*



hybrid DET said:


> *on the se-r or the b12? *


The sr20. Just cap both endsof it or set it up to recirculate? The PS pump.


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

Smog pump? Are you talking about EGR? If so, leave it alone. It doesn't reduce horsepower and is environmentally friendly. As far as the power steering pump goes. It doesn't need fluid. I pulled the guts out of it, and the pulley bearing is self contained. In essence it is an idler pulley now. Just be sure and remove the little fan blade lookin thing from inside. Mine has been this way for years with no ill effects.

As for the B12 crossmember, to do it my way still requires a welder. you do not use the rear B12 crossmember mount. IIRC, I had to cut part of it off. You want to keep the two studs that are there for the rear, the rest goes bye bye. Center the Sr20 over the crossmember with the SR20 tranny mount and bracket attatched. Cut some metal (I used square channel tubing) and tack weld one side to the mount and the other side to the crossmember. Remove the crossmember and weld it entirely and brace it where you see fit. This allows easy removal of the corssmember with 3 bolts and 2 nuts. The two on the front, the two on the back and the one holding the mount to the tranny.

John


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

Reguarding the radiator. I never thought to investigate the diesel. I may have to look into that.
You don't want to use the E-15 radiator as the inlet/outlet are reversed in position. You would have to snake hoses all over to get it right. Instead you can get the one for the CA pulsar and the inlets/outlets are in the proper location and are the same size as the SR20. If you use the GA radiator, you will have to step down the radiator hose from the size of the SR outlets to the radiator outlets.

John


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

good info john. The CA radiator sounds like a good solution. Is this the one you are running on boost?


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

I currently have the CA radiator with a 14" and a 12" slim fan and it seems to keep everythig pretty cool. It does get up to about 210* after numerous back to back runs, though. I'm gonna have to look into the diesel radiator.

John


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

Nismodriver said:


> *I currently have the CA radiator with a 14" and a 12" slim fan and it seems to keep everythig pretty cool. It does get up to about 210* after numerous back to back runs, though. I'm gonna have to look into the diesel radiator.
> 
> John *


John,
those temperatures are going to give you trouble at the convention road course. Are you using the UR pulleys and some redline water wetter? Also try hooking the fan up to a switch and running it full time when you are on the track.


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

*Re: Wire Harness*



Nismodriver said:


> *Why did you remove the wiring harness? You are making ALOT more work for yourself. All you need is the Engine harness for the SR. You will need to tie into 6-7 wires to start the car. Put the harness back. Feed the SR harness through and do a little wiring. *


 This is a good idea and pretty much the plan now. What exactly do I need to do once I have the B12's main harness back in? 

Thanks,


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

hybrid DET said:


> *ah, the great electrical secret right John? It's what seperates the men from the boys. *


Kinda what I was thinkin ;o). It's fairly straight up, if you sit downa nd think about what the engine needs to operate. The wires can be determined with a haynes and Chilton's. It just takes a little investigation. 

If you are going to do the swap, you really need to be aware of exactly what's going on. I drove my car daily and on numerous road trips for 2 years. There were instances however, if I had not known exactly what wire went where, what voltage was supposed to be there, or how to check it, I would have been in BIG trouble. These are things you need to live and breath, prior to having faith in your swap reliability. If someone just hands it to you, you've gained nothing.

John


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

*Update: Rear Disc Setup and More*

Hey guys, 

Since the last time I typed I've been working on a way to get 4-wheel disc setup on the B12 before the sr20 was droped in with mere garage mechanics. 

So heres the scoop.

I started off by removing the entire rear suspension/brake system off the SE-R parts car, struts, control arms, sway bars, rotaros, calipers. I had to dislocate the E-brake line at the knuckle too. 

So I left the entire SE-R suspension/brake setup intact, and pulled it out and set it aside. I than removed the entire B12 suspension/brake system. Struts, Control arms, Drums, and KN13 Sway bars.

Since where the e-brake plugs into the B12's rear drums is different than the SE-R's rear disc setup I will have swap out the e-brake lines at the y-section where the lines branch out and head towards the left and right rear brakes. 

I also had to take the top plate off the SE-R's struts and replace them with the B12's old strut plates. (I am sure it may be possible to just change out the B12's struts onto the SE-R's knuckle, but I personally wanted all SE-R suspension.) 

So the control arms, and stuts bolted right up and now the next step is to get brakets made for the leading arms and the rear sway bar. This is already lined up to happen as soon as the sr20 is in place.

The next step is to swap out the SE-R's master cylinder and brake boster and e-brake line. After that I will work on droping the se-r's X-member, Linkage and wire syetem, along with working on a super cool retro idea that I'm hoping will work.

Anyways, that's all for now. I'll check back soon and keep you all updated on my progress.

Thanks!

Greg


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

You'll also need the E-brake lever and linkage, it requires drilling one hole.

John


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## Webfoot (Apr 24, 2003)

Well guys, it's getting down to crunch time. Greg put the stock harness back in the b12 and we removed the engine harness and ecu from the b13. Everything on the ecu plugs into the engine except for 8 or so wires that go to the chassis harness. I need to know what they are and where they go and or if theyre even needed. Please don't force me to open up a book on Sentra's for the first time. 

Hopefully we will have the welder over this weekend to weld the rear strut plates, the motor mounts and linkage. We rebuilt both inner and outer CV joints on both sides. Everthing is ready to rock ond roll.


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

It won't work. When you swap the B13 cables in you'll see why. I did put the sway bar in. Fit was tight, but its on, no problem. Thanks again!

I wouldn't worry about the accessory plugs too much. I didn't tap into any of them, except for the starter wire. Who needs reverse lights and a factory coolant gauge.

John


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## Webfoot (Apr 24, 2003)

Nismodriver said:


> *It won't work. When you swap the B13 cables in you'll see why. I did put the sway bar in. Fit was tight, but its on, no problem. Thanks again!
> 
> I wouldn't worry about the accessory plugs too much. I didn't tap into any of them, except for the starter wire. Who needs reverse lights and a factory coolant gauge.
> 
> John *


What won't work? You guys are gonna make me open that book lol. We'll figure it out. 

Glad the swybr worked out. Must be a huge diff going from none to Kn13 style.


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

I was referring to the B12 brake lever. Actually, Tom, we're trying to get Greg to open a book . It's really not that bad. I think I had 2 hours invested in the wiring to get it crancked over 10-15 mins figuring out the fuel pump. Not to big of a deal. You'll get it!

John


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

Yes, use the B13 cable and ebrake lever for the rear disc brake conversion. You can secure the b13 cable to the bottom of the b12's belly pay with a series of sheet metal screws in the crucial places and then wrap them up with zip ties to keep them from hanging too low. 

I'm kind've unclear if you are makin a new bracket for the "leading arms." If this is what you're doing to get the rear disc brake conversion to work then you may be able to save some time by cutting the bracket off the b13 body. Much like the passenger side engine mount, weld this to the bottom of the b12 body. The opposite side (inside of the car) may need to be reinforced with a steel plate. 

When I considered this method of attaining 4 wheels discc, my automotive professor pointed out that it would be very difficult to get this leading arm exactly in place to maintain correct suspension geometry. I'm sure you will be able to get it close enough though. Make sure you look out for areas where the arms can bind under different handling conditions.


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

also, although the se-r rear control arms will bolt in, they are different in length than the B12 arms. This may present a camber problem or weird suspension binding in the future for you. If you can use the b12 control arms bolted to the b13 hub, this is how I currently have it.


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

hey charles, have you tried the b13 rear control arm set up yet .
or will you try it in the near future? 

I too have cut off the brackets off my b13 to place on the b12 when I get ready to do the rear conversion.


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

hybrid DET said:


> *also, although the se-r rear control arms will bolt in, they are different in length than the B12 arms. This may present a camber problem or weird suspension binding in the future for you. If you can use the b12 control arms bolted to the b13 hub, this is how I currently have it. *


 Yes there is apearant camber but not enough to make me worry, it will help with the handling too...I could also go to les schwab and get a camber kit if needed.


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

Man, you're putting a sour taste in my mouth. You're asking for help and then not listening to it. Have you looked at the linkage on the B12 lever and the ends of the B13 cables? If so, why would you insist on using them? You don't make since. Stop trying to be creative and do things the easy, safe , and right way. Your methods have no benefit. I just don't understand.

John


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

*Re: Update: Master/Booster*



xXB12RacerXx said:


> *The next step is to swap out the SE-R's master cylinder and brake boster and e-brake line. After that I will work on droping the se-r's X-member, Linkage and wire syetem, along with working on a super cool retro idea that I'm hoping will work.
> *


Hey guys, Update Time!

We got the Booster and Master all swaped out. Tom went to town on it and got the whole thing switched out along with bending the brake lines into place. I think it took him maybe an hour. I also went to U-Pull-It, our local j/y haven for sentras, and picked up a complete wire harness with my borther's help. Thanks to having my brother's help, I now have a wire system again. 

The E-brake lines are setup but are not in place. I'm going to need to either make brakets or do what Charles did. The X-members were swaped out too, but theres a problem with that. You see the se-r has 2 bolts on the rear x-member just like the B12, but the se-r's are wider, and only one bolt will mount into the b12. I also got the linkage out and ready for measurments for when the engines in.

So I guess I'm pretty much at the end of it all, only thing left is mounts for the engine and leading arms and the wire system. The hardest thing will be figuring out where the engine mounts go because I have absolutly no lead. That is unless someone who has done this wants to give me measurements...

Well, I'll let ya'll know how it goes later!

Greg


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> *Yes there is apearant camber but not enough to make me worry, it will help with the handling too...I could also go to les schwab and get a camber kit if needed. *


What kind, positive camber, negative camber? Which aids handling? How much camber, apparent would normally be +/- 1 to 2 degrees and is enough to demolish tires and drastically change a vehicles characterisitcs. 

Oh and camber bolts are what you are referring to, they are well known for losing adjustment and even breaking. 

Man this is realy sounding like a good plan to me. 

John


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

red_devil said:


> *hey charles, have you tried the b13 rear control arm set up yet .
> or will you try it in the near future?
> 
> I too have cut off the brackets off my b13 to place on the b12 when I get ready to do the rear conversion. *


No real need to try them. They are no better than the B12 units. In fact, I believe the B12 arms are better since they are the correct length and will bolt to the B13 hub and brake assy. 

I mentioned my concerns with the camber problems in using the b13 arms. On second thought, I believe there may be a greater concern at hand. Using the longer B13 control arms will push the hub assembly outwards, changing the suspension geometry. This may cause scuffing and/ or side load inside the strut. 

Its difficult to explain this online but if you lengthen one line of a triangle it will change the angles inside the triangle. I do not believe this change in angle is healthy for the life of the strut or consistent with the strut travel itself. If the angles are too steep, this may cause the strut to lock up under compression creating unsafe and unpredictable handling characteristics.


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## Webfoot (Apr 24, 2003)

I agree with hybrid. The B12 has different stress points and different dimensions right off the assy line. This stuff is all figured out by a bunch of smart guys a long time ago. A rear disc conversion? yes. Compromise the integrity of a hot rod for a setup that may or may not be better? I'll need to hear more feedback on that one.


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

Front or rear? I have the B12 control arms in the rear and I believe B13s in the front. There is really no need to change out the fronts though and perhaps you should leave in the b12 units to be safe. If you do swap them out, I would suggest double checking the two control arms to insure they are truely identical. It has been quite a few years since I have had them side by side.


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

The B12's Arms are just as competent as the B13's and when using anything from the B13, one had better make sure that it measures up to the exactness of the B12's components or you will be in for a rude awakening.


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

So how about that bracket , the one charles tells us about in his 
write up. i think his friend from the netherlands had the right idea.
sense you don't mess with much ,as the suspention goes.less headach will be a plus here!!!


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

hybrid DET said:


> *Yes, use the B13 cable and ebrake lever for the rear disc brake conversion.*


 actually the B12 e-brake lever works perfectly, the B13's is a bit shorter and doesnt mount in the cab right. the e-brake lines fit right in too.



hybrid DET said:


> *You can secure the b13 cable to the bottom of the b12's belly pay with a series of sheet metal screws in the crucial places and then wrap them up with zip ties to keep them from hanging too low.*


 this is what i will more than likley do, that or have mini brakets made for them


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> *actually the B12 e-brake lever works perfectly, the B13's is a bit shorter and doesnt mount in the cab right. the e-brake lines fit right in too.
> 
> this is what i will more than likley do, that or have mini brakets made for them  *


In an effort not to give incorrect information, I have disassembled both E-brake levers for comparison. The bracket from the B12 lever has holes that are larger than the b13 emergency cable ends. This can be secured using zip ties or something, but honestly, if you insist on using the B12 lever, simply remove the 10m nut and bend back the clip. remove the cable and correct end from the b13 lever and install it on the b12 lever. If you wish to use the whole b13 lever, simply bolt it to the exisiting rear bolt hole. then drill one hole for the front bolt and run a bolt through w/ a lock washer. This is just for any of those interested, as B12Racer has chosen his method.

John


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

I found it to be easier to just throw in the B13's brake lever, take a self tapping bolt to the offset hole and call it a day. I looked at the B12's years ago and it just seem like a hassle. There are a few more differences between the 2 levers that would prohibit you from actually doing a straight-forward swap over. I hope I'm not wrong as well .


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

> This can be secured using zip ties or something,


BTW, that's just beyond ghetto and totally unacceptable for advise to people who want to do this. Hey John, I know you aren't the 1st ones to mention this and I'm not even tripping about it, but there have been waaaaaayyyy too many times where I've depended on my emergency brake to assist and I'll be damned if I'm going to bestow that much responsibility on some tie-ties. But hey, to each his own  !


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

My ebrake cable is mounted to the bottom of my b12 with sheet metal screws. I used zip ties *NOT* as a man source of attachment but to keep the cables from hanging down too low in certain places or to route them in a certain direction. Boost boy is right, I wouldnt trust zip ties anymore than that either.


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

Sorry guys, I wasn't being literal about using zip ties to hold the cables to the lever. I was kinda bein a smarty pants. But honestly I think that is the only feasible way of making it work, as someone insists on doing. Either way, I think everyone got my point 

John


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## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Zip ties are quite strong and have a pretty high strength against stretching but it seems if you are using them to hold the ends of your brake cable they will get pinched between the cable stop and the lever. Even the strongest zip tie can be cut in a millisecond, they aren't desinged to withstand crushing force.


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## Webfoot (Apr 24, 2003)

Thanks for your input guys. We'll have to look this one over again. When we retroed the brake, it seemed to just all fit together. But I think you're right about the cable ends. We didnt look that close. Thanks for flagging that one.

Oh, I love zip ties. The one I used to pull the motor is called Deltec. It comes in 50' spools with a bag of connecting heads. Used it to strap a blown muffler together. Pulled a car out the ditch. Mostly use it to support big monster phone cables to the guy wire.


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

The cluch cable for the SE-R should fit right in. I think you don't have to even touch the petals.

the petals for both cars are very little diffrence. I don't know if you could be safe to say almost plug and play


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

red_devil said:


> *The cluch cable for the SE-R should fit right in. I think you don't have to even touch the petals.
> 
> the petals for both cars are very little diffrence. I don't know if you could be safe to say almost plug and play *


 Well b/c of the drastic curve difference of the se-r's pedal I was unable to get it to fit...I'll write more on this later.


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> *Well b/c of the drastic curve difference of the se-r's pedal I was unable to get it to fit...I'll write more on this later. *


No you should be able to use the B12 petals and hook up the cables,etc right up..


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

Or if you don't feel like swapping the cable, you simply just move the throttle cable bracket one bolt hole to the left. Mine worked fine like that for years.

John


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

red_devil said:


> *No you should be able to use the B12 petals and hook up the cables,etc right up.. *


 Yeah, that's what I thought, but go ahead and try it...if it works, let us know!...maybe if you used the B12 inner bracket...Anyways, I'm past that, but your going to have to let us know if you can pull something off...


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

*RE: Success*

Hey guys, 

I know its been awhile, but things are going as planned..slowly, but as planned...

As it sits, the engine is in place and level, the front x-member is bolted in. The Leading arm mounts for the rear suspension have been removed from the SE-R as well as the passenger side motor mount...

Very soon I will be having a welder over who will help install these...

Check out my homepage for pics and more info...

Later!


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

hey,


Did any of you guys use the stock charcol can or o0r do you have to use the ser's?? thx


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

I removed mine after the turbo, I used the stock B12 initially and it worked fine.

John


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

*Update! 01/24/04*

FINALLY!!! after 10 long months, the nissan runs and drives. it needs a fuel rail, exhaust(its only got the headers on ), needs to be "put back together"(the dash) than all thats left is a little fine tuning and some detail work.


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

*good to hear....*



xXB12RacerXx said:


> FINALLY!!! after 10 long months, the nissan runs and drives. it needs a fuel rail, exhaust(its only got the headers on ), needs to be "put back together"(the dash) than all thats left is a little fine tuning and some detail work.



hey Greg, 

good to hear. now did you get the rear disc brakes working yet?? I should have mine you in running in a few months. 
the broke faerie is taking all my money. i did find out the the steelie on the coupe are 14's so I can use the ser front brakes will no problem


witch way did you do the wiring? the hard way or the harder way


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

red_devil said:


> hey Greg,


hey chris



red_devil said:


> good to hear.


i know, its been a long time since i've had something to tinker on...and the sentra needs a lot of tinkering, im embarrased to even shoot pics of it...i may take a few...



red_devil said:


> now did you get the rear disc brakes working yet??


 o god how do i explain this?..i basically took the b13 rear brake/suspention. I had to leave out the rear sway bar because it would simply not fit unless i cut out the spare tire section. but thats alright because it was real dimpy...i plan on getting a nice heavy duty one made up for it. of course thats a little on down the road.

i had a friend make me a bracket for the leading arms, and just changed out the top plates on the dampeners. the rear b13 suspension just sorta fell in like it belonged there. 



red_devil said:


> I should have mine you in running in a few months.


hang in there brother, the swap is long and...expensive. for me, it seems the longest part of the swap has been the shop time. of course those things, the wireing and the welding, were the most crucial and therefore needed time to be done right...that and this is a first time thing for some people here in oregun. 



red_devil said:


> the broke faerie is taking all my money.


wth is that?



red_devil said:


> i did find out the the steelie on the coupe are 14's so I can use the ser front brakes will no problem


yeah np there.



red_devil said:


> witch way did you do the wiring? the hard way or the harder way


uuuuuuum, idk, i had someone else do that...no way am i fuggin with any friggin wires! i did a dash cluster swap once, and i just about had a hernia trying to figure that out. 

once i get the dash back on, all the wheels alligned, and the fuel rail replaced, i'll have it back at the shop where i'll get the wire harness fully adapted so i can use my friggin wipers again!!!


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

the broke faerie is my wife and little girl 
the welding,and mechanics is all in the blood yes the massive time it takes will pay off.


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## B12-power (Jun 14, 2002)

I've a set of B12 SR20DE-engine mounts for sale. 

4 engine-mounts and a shortened driveshaft, is what you get to put the SR20.

http://www.tati-motorsport.nl for pics.

Any offers?


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> 1988 Nissan Sentra w/ SR20DE for sale!!!
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


Sad to see you have your car up for sale! You obviously did not complete the whole mission because the car still look very incomplete (at least by the photos). I'll ask you a few questions and your answers will be a good reference for the folks around here: Was it really worth the headache? And did you get out of it what you had expected? Projects are long and arduous and if you're going about from a clueless point of view, then the finished product would be less than stellar. I saw you had the ecu in the engine bay! I guess you hit that "fuck this" point, huh.....Anyways, I always felt that a CA18DET was better for performance in the B12 and that it was better at home in these cars as well. The way the market is going for the SR20 and FWD, a lot of people are doing what you're doing and that's selling while they still can.........

Dee


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

boost_boy said:


> Sad to see you have your car up for sale! You obviously did not complete the whole mission because the car still look very incomplete (at least by the photos). I'll ask you a few questions and your answers will be a good reference for the folks around here: Was it really worth the headache? And did you get out of it what you had expected? Projects are long and arduous and if you're going about from a clueless point of view, then the finished product would be less than stellar. I saw you had the ecu in the engine bay! I guess you hit that "fuck this" point, huh.....Anyways, I always felt that a CA18DET was better for performance in the B12 and that it was better at home in these cars as well. The way the market is going for the SR20 and FWD, a lot of people are doing what you're doing and that's selling while they still can.........
> 
> Dee


if it wasnt for my situation, yes! well worth the headache...if i had the money form the get go this thing would be sweet. i've droven it already, in its current condition and waxed a newer gen eclipse and a 14 sec acura gsx...i got more than i expected and especially for the shape its in now. i poped the valve cover off the old motor, maybe i shoudl get a picture of it, but it looked brand new.

i had some morons do the wireing...but thats just another thing i've learned from this swap...how to do it right...i could build these things all day long if i had the cash...its incredibly easy once you get the hang of things.

im not going to say which motor is best for what car, their all good. i had a lot of fun putting this car together and im not selling while i still can...as far as im concerned this car is just starting to come to life...

the b12 will either sell or it won't, either way it will get finished...if not it'll end up in a scrap yard somewhere with all the other cubed nissans.


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> the b12 will either sell or it won't, either way it will get finished...if not it'll end up in a scrap yard somewhere with all the other cubed nissans.


That seems like an awful lot of work and also money to just toss it in the scrapyard, I hate seeing perfect B12's in the yard with absolutely no body damage, good interior, and intact engine getting ready to be crushed, actually makes me kinda sad realizing my car is getting more rare every day... Ok, I'm done, good luck selling the car.


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

*Update:*

Up date will the red devil coupe of mine...

Well I will start where I have left off and get to ordering the rest of the part here soon. So if I have all my ducks in a row I should have all my parts by late sept. and the rest of the car put together. No turbo for now. in the spring I hope . just n/a with H/C/CAI. I'll try to keep a detailed acout of everything and pics too.

chip


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

> has anyone ever put an sr ina coupe b4?


yes . charles's friend in finland. but he scraped it due to the were on the chassis of the coupe. And IIRC b12SR20 on sr20 forums has a coupe I think? not sure. most go with the 2 dr. or the 4 dr. becuse of the number of them out there. 

tom has my number.

chip


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> well, once you get yours going well have to start going to meets...i wonder which one will be faster tho...your coupe or my sedan...


I may be a bit biased but, the coup is way more aerodynamic than the sedan. So, coups kick ass. :loser:


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

red_devil said:


> well I don't know for sure? but if I have H/CAI with a 2200lbs of car? I would lean to me on the long run. but donno. will soon see.... down to skillzzzz....


dude i cant wait, hehehe, i got pretty much the same, only i have a modified cai out of the stock airbox...i have sr20 piping back to the resonator right behind the cat...only thing is i hear a whiss, almost sound like turbo...maybee its the jimmy rigged cai semi-open exhaust...idk though, either way it sounds badass


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

B12-power said:


> I've a set of B12 SR20DE-engine mounts for sale.
> 
> 4 engine-mounts and a shortened driveshaft, is what you get to put the SR20.
> 
> ...


 I had to look around a bit, but I found the pic of these mounts. Pretty nice work I think.   


















I might be picking up a '91 SE-R parts car in two weeks. Yes, I'm thinking about it. I've already got a GTiR five speed, clutch, flywheel, and front axles. I've seen SR20DE's in B12's, but never in a 4WD B12.


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> fuck nissan!


Sounds like someone is bitter because they couldn't build a car. :loser: 

John


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> nope. jesus this forum still sucks!


????I'm note reading you? What's up. I'm greatful for this forum. u should have a lot of thx for all the people that helped you in some way or another.....


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> nope. jesus this forum still sucks!


Why so negative, man? Just because things didn't work out for you, there's no need to express the negative vibe.

Dee


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

o things worked out...i was very impressed with the results, but nissans are just the under dog, and always will be i.m.o. theres no real support or real gear for the shit. the'll never be anything more than overpowered and underpriced...and by that i mean you get what you pay for...you buy cheap, you get cheap...im suprised this thread is still around, its by far one if the worst threads on any forum i've ever read, sad to say i started it...if i were an admin i'da deleted it a long time ago...


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Here's an idea for you. Click on that little red X on the far upper right of this page, and don't bother coming back here again. Thanks.


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## SuperStock (Dec 31, 2003)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> i mean you get what you pay for...you buy cheap, you get cheap...


wrong. my car was $7000 new; thats cheap. it has never broken, and has run daily without drama since new; thats priceless


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

xXB12RacerXx said:


> o things worked out...i was very impressed with the results, but nissans are just the under dog, and always will be i.m.o. theres no real support or real gear for the shit. the'll never be anything more than overpowered and underpriced...and by that i mean you get what you pay for...you buy cheap, you get cheap...im suprised this thread is still around, its by far one if the worst threads on any forum i've ever read, sad to say i started it...if i were an admin i'da deleted it a long time ago...



maybe you should have paid more in the first place and get someone experienced to do your stuff... of fallowed a few advice in the first place (just like if no one ever did tell you how to do it  )... you made it cheap yourself.. now you pay (?)... *YOU've gone the cheap way !!... not the rest of us.. and WE are reliable !* 

Btw, your right on one thing... most of your post on this thread sucks.


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