# Fiberglass Bill of Material



## schauhan (Apr 29, 2004)

Hey u Fiberglass Pros,

I am set to go for Fiberglass Sub Encloser in the trunk. Would you please gimme the list of material and possible places I can get it from. I already have a strong will to go fiberglass, but need the rest.

I have already started to browse through the previous message, but any suggesting is appreciated.

Looking forword,


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

u will need fiberglass resin and hardner(a lot of resin)
fiberglass matt
a subframe of the design you want to have(usually wood)
bondo/bodyfiller
sandpaper
sanding block
paint
time/patience/dedication


body shops usually sell the stuff cheaper than most places....but u can get all of the materials at home depot/lowes, although i dont recommend using spray paint to paint the box....have it professionally done.


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

Here is a nice link for you. I would also like to add that Boat Repair Shops have great prices and usually better quality resins (without the waxy layering). 

http://web.njit.edu/~cas1383/proj/main/

And here is some inpiration for you:
http://www.hzemall.com/rockford_mustang_folder/rockford_mustang_trunk.htm


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## schauhan (Apr 29, 2004)

Thanks for the nice links. This guy has not used the wood box at all, he went straight with resin and fiberglass to make the enclosure. Will resin and fiberglass alone will be able to hold the pressure of 1000 watt sub, or I certainly need to go for a wood box and then put fiberglass layers inside with some bondo resin. What will be better and why.

I plan to put one 1000 watt sub:
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/prod...temKey=10063569&CategoryDesc=Power Subwoofers

Driven by this amp:

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/prod...temKey=10063518&CategoryDesc=Power Amplifiers

Will resin and fiberglass only construction hold the pressure.

Ideas, suggestions?

Thanks,


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

i hope you know that building a fiberglass box that will sound good and look good is hard as fuck......also, depending on how its built, it may sound pretty crappy and be very brittle


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## schauhan (Apr 29, 2004)

Well, Thanks for the pointer, as a matter of fact I did not know that fact, because I am too new to this audio thingy.

What is the proven sub setup which delivers real kick a$$ thump and not the disappointment.


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

Fiberglass is very strong. Most installers will use about 6-8 layers for subwoofers, even larger, more powerful ones. You can make the box the recommended air space, just plan on the enclosure then use packing peanuts to find the volume, you adjust the box from there. If you go to one of those "UPS Stores" you can buy a known amount of peanuts, like say 1.5 cu feet. Knowing this you then calculate your enclosure, OR get a few cardboard boxes of different sizes. and dump your peanuts from your enclosure into the box, them measure the box dimensions: L x W x H / 1728 (make sure its all in inches). Here is a nice tutorial in the link below. If your enclosure is going to hidden, dont worry too much how it looks, as long as its functional.
Packing Peanuts Tutorial 

Testing the strength of Fiberglass


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

schauhan said:


> What is the proven sub setup which delivers real kick a$$ thump and not the disappointment.


Here are some very good subs that will perform beautifully in sound quality and still give you great thump:

*Image Dynamics: IDQ series, and IDMAX series
*Resonant Engineering: XXX and RE series
*Adire Audio: Brahma series
*Treo
*Diamond Audio
*Digital Designs


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

you could make a tuned (to your tastes) mdf box and then use fiberglass overtop of it to make the shapes and what not :thumbup: from what im reading that would be farrrrrrr easier to do than make a fiberglass enclosure and a. hope it holds up and b. hope it dosent sound like a dieing cow


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## schauhan (Apr 29, 2004)

While dicking around on the net, I found this FAQ on MDF, sounds interesting and informative.

http://www.lungster.com/l/speakers/mdffaq/mdf.html#Q1


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

I agree, when it can be done, do most of the enclosure in MDF cause its the easiest to work with. But if he wants to do the enclosure in his spare tire well, then the lower half would need to be done in glass, thats the advantage of glass enclosures. You can take odd shapes and curves and turn them into an eclosure to save space. Once you get the hang of it, like after the first 2-3 layers, its all cake from there. If you dont plan on showing it off, then you dont even need to finish it off with ICING and filler. Those are used for cosmetic reasons to get rid of the dimples created. I plan on doing a glass enclosure where the back portion is set into the right side panel of the cargo area in the Pathfinder, it will be forever hidden from sight, so I dont plan on "finishing" it other than spraying on some liquid deadener on the inside of it. The front side will be all MDF. In fact my damn subs should be here today, so I can actually make a start on it soon. I will make sure to get some pics.


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## schauhan (Apr 29, 2004)

Yet another question:

What is going to be the path for sound coming from Subwoofer in my trunk to the cabin of car. I have 4 door sentra 91. 

One way to create the sound path is to remove the back seat and the plastic panel behind it, but then I need back seats too...

Second way will be to make holes and slits into the dash board behind the rear seat where the rear speakers are already mounted.

What is the right way? Any idea?


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

subs make very low freq. so you dont need to "clear a path" for the sound like you do for tweeters. trust me you will hear/ feel it and point the sub facing the rear of your car if you can it sounds better and not as intense. i know your thinking "i like intense :thumbup: " but if you just build a mdf box first and run it for awile facing the rear, front, then both with the seats down you will notice it sounds best facing the rear with the seats up (you wont hear the truck vibrating with the seats up


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

1.6pete said:


> subs make very low freq. so you dont need to "clear a path" for the sound like you do for tweeters.


yeah the lower the frequency...the less directional it becomes. Thats why its more important to get the imaging correct on smaller speakers like a 4" midrange and the tweets, and not so important on your larger speakers like a 7" midbass speaker and up to your subs. Bass is also a non-stereo sound, thats why you can run them in mono configuration, which will also help maximize your amp's output to the subs.

Here is another interesting link for some fiberglass tutorials:
http://www.glswrkz.com/


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

Fiberglass is very strong. 

no.......its not. in fact, fiberglass is NOT ideal for subwoofer setups if u plan on producing big numbers..the fiberglass would shatter rather easily


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## schauhan (Apr 29, 2004)

I believe fiberglass Vs MDF is best decided by the situation in hand, If you are looking for reinforcing the sound in door panels, then I believe MDF is straight out of question, since you need to negotiate all those tight spaces and contours.


Single woofer in the cornet of trunk probably can be best handled by MDF as compared to fiberglass. However, if you are looking for a bank of woofers, then again it might be easy to go fiberglass.

Does that all crap I gave above seem reasonable?


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

One of the advantages of using fg is you can follow odd, uneven shapes easily. If you want a corner box, fg will allow you to utilize every curve and cranny as air space, whereas you are limited with the MDF because of the straight lines it produces.


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

cHoPs said:


> Fiberglass is very strong.
> 
> no.......its not. in fact, fiberglass is NOT ideal for subwoofer setups if u plan on producing big numbers..the fiberglass would shatter rather easily


Here is a box (and what do you know...made from fiberglass) with 8 12" Image Dynamics subs, running off of 10.5 kwatts of power and hitting 155 dbs. I would say that is a big number.


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

^what do u know about that setup? do u know what the foundation of that system looks like?


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

exactly. most of the time there is a box made out of mdf underneath, but the fiberglass it there mostly for cosmetic reasons. i don't think i have ever seen a sub box made entirely out of fiberglass they normally have an mdf skeleton right? cuz you need something to lay the fleece or what ever it is you'll use to get the shapes


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## Punkrocka436 (Jul 8, 2003)

I need to find the picture of the fiberglass enclosure supporting an F150...


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

Punkrocka436 said:


> I need to find the picture of the fiberglass enclosure supporting an F150...


..............like the s10 is on top of it? well im sure it can be done to be strong and all but like those pool covers that claim they can hold a car, i dont trust it


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## Punkrocka436 (Jul 8, 2003)

yeah, thats the one....i would trust it, and when their pool cover didnt hold, they would buy me a new car


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

No, subs will not break fiberglass provided it's built properly.

Build it outta solid fleece and bulking material like some installers out there are doing, yeah it might break. Build it out of materials that are designed to provide strong composite parts, not a snowball's chance in hell will it break.

Subwoofers simply do not generate the pressure required to come remotely close to breaking fiberglass. If a sub could generate an average of 10psi while playing, that means there would be 780lbs of force on a 10" sub itsself (780 being an average because of the dynamic nature of the situation). Anyone think there's a sub out there that could handle having 780lbs suspended from the diaphragm? Any sub have a motor structure strong enough to move such a load? NOPE. A sub would destroy itself far before ever taxing the enclosure it's in.

It's just not going to happen. Subs don't have enough stroke to compress enough volume of the air behind it to create any pressure in a sealed enclosure. If the enclosure is ported, well the "pressurized" air is allowed to escape thus further reducing any chances of compression.

The cost and labor issues are the reasons SPL machines normally use MDF. It's cheaper and faster to put together. As the box size increases, the costs to build it increase exponentially if you're using fiberglass.

Fiberglass will flex though, but it can be braced and stiffened to eliminate flex.
You saw the pics of my truck parked on top of my enclosure, there's at least 1,000lbs sitting on that box and thanks to the internal bracing there was no flexing and no breaking at all.


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

Punkrocka436 said:


> I need to find the picture of the fiberglass enclosure supporting an F150...


I posted the link on page 1 of this thread. 


Azgrower said:


> Testing the strength of Fiberglass



I am not saying you should build the entire thing out of glass, but you can built a good part of it out of glass and expect it to hold up to some good SPL without exploding into tiny bits.


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## schauhan (Apr 29, 2004)

*fiberglassing the rear deck speakers*

I have heared a lot about the fiberglass enclosures for trunk subs and door panel speakers. Has anyone tried fiberglassing the rear deck speakers, I can't really find much discussion on that.


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

schauhan said:


> I have heared a lot about the fiberglass enclosures for trunk subs and door panel speakers. Has anyone tried fiberglassing the rear deck speakers, I can't really find much discussion on that.


Not a Nissan, but none the less the technique would be the same.

http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/UBB_CGI/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=005712#000001


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

schauhan said:


> I have heared a lot about the fiberglass enclosures for trunk subs and door panel speakers. Has anyone tried fiberglassing the rear deck speakers, I can't really find much discussion on that.



yea, nismoprincess did it


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## schauhan (Apr 29, 2004)

How come this mod does not seem to be much popular as compared to the door panel fiberglassing and ofcourse the subs in the trunk??


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## turbo200 (Aug 7, 2004)

Here is what I did myself to my to my 200sx. In total it took about 5 hours of labor and $50.00 in material.


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## Punkrocka436 (Jul 8, 2003)

can you still rest your foot to the left of the clutch with that setup? Thats really the only thing stopping me from glassing more kick panels for my 6.5's


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

turbo im still completely amazed at the job you did on the tweeter mounts:thumbup: particularly the finish and the way it looks completely stock :waving: for awhile before you told me i thought u used a heat gun and just warped the stock ones some how lol . quick question when u guys makes these kick panels how do you shape them to fit in there? turbo do u have any pics of the "structure" of the kick panel before you glassed it? i would love to see that i assume you made it out of mdf right? thanks :cheers:


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

I don;t know what you guys are talking about, fiberglass shattering... That is absurd as long as the box is built correctly. Here is a link to the fiberglass kick panels I made for the 200 and some other fiberglass projects I did a few years back. 

The enclosure shown was EXTREMELY strong. I could turn the bottom half over and literally JUMP on it without issue. It was approx. 9 layers of mat with pieces of dynamat in between layers. The other thing to consider is that when you fiberglass the spare tire well, the reason you don't need that many layers is because the enclosure being molded actually couples to the body panel is is formed too. 

http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/december00/

This is how they looked installed.


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## turbo200 (Aug 7, 2004)

No mdf at all on the tweeter pods. The factory piece, the surface mount bracket from Boston Acoustics, some cheese cloth, a four inch of backstraping and some screws. The tweeter pods still mount just like stock, with those three push in clips. And for finishing I used SEM texture coat(which gives it that leather grainy look) and SEM trim black (which gives it that factory silky black finish. I've done pods for people that have been dyed to match car interiors, and as well I used texture coat for the grainy look. Everyone has a method and a style, you've just got to figure what works for you. As for pics of the being built, I have actual photos but no scanner. I'll try to go to my dads this weekend and scan them.


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

Here is a similar step by step on the tweeter mounts:
http://www.hzemall.com/honda_accord_tweeter_pods1.htm

Kick panel frame structures:
http://www.noisyboyz.com/installs/anteclipse/index.html


They are not in Nissan vehicles, but the procedures and technique is the same. For the kick panels, some guys (including myself) have used laser pointers to help get the aiming correct. But the old fashion way of mocking it up and running it a few days in different positions works perfect as well. Just take your time and think it all through.


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

turbo200 said:


> and SEM trim black (which gives it that factory silky black finish.


do you think that would stick to the trim plastic (you used it over fiberglass wich is a little more porous) and how close is it to the factory black? if its dead on maybe ill try it on the A,B,C pillars............i hate that tacky grey :thumbup: also where do you buy SEM products?


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

1.6pete said:


> do you think that would stick to the trim plastic (you used it over fiberglass wich is a little more porous) and how close is it to the factory black? if its dead on maybe ill try it on the A,B,C pillars............i hate that tacky grey :thumbup: also where do you buy SEM products?


SEM is just spray paint in a rattle can. What you can do for the texturing is scuff the plastic a bit with some 120 grit sand paper, spray the texture on and them paint to match with some SEM color match paint. Now the nice thing about the texture is if you dont like it, you could finely sand it down some until you get the testure you like. Its easy to work with. Here is a link to SEM. They have many OEM match colors to choose from.

http://www.sem.ws/


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## schauhan (Apr 29, 2004)

I finally made my doorpanel speaker enclosures out of fiberglass. Now what is the best way to run wires through it. I was thinking of drilling a hole and running spaker wires through it and then sealing with silicone.

Any idea? or how did u do it.


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## Punkrocka436 (Jul 8, 2003)

buy a rubber grommet, drill a hole in the fiberglass and put the grommet in, run your wiring, seal with silicone


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## schauhan (Apr 29, 2004)

Yeah, grommet idea is good. 

And how many fiberglass layers are enough for door speaker enclosure, currently I have two and it looks pretty sturdy, also i do not suspect much pressure out there since it is not subwoofer.


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## Punkrocka436 (Jul 8, 2003)

i would do 4


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

schauhan said:


> Yeah, grommet idea is good.
> 
> And how many fiberglass layers are enough for door speaker enclosure, currently I have two and it looks pretty sturdy, also i do not suspect much pressure out there since it is not subwoofer.


Or you could actually use a terminal cup for the connection into the glass enclosure. 

In general layering should go like this:
*Door Pods - 5 layers with matt or cloth
*Subs - 8-10 layers build up with matting or cloth for strength

But it also depends on the resin you use, some are build for structural strength whilst others are general usage and require more layers to achieve same strength. Do a google search for U.S. Composites and click on Polyester resins to get a good idea of the different types.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

I agree on the terminal cup but did it a bit differently. I bought the terminal cup and unscrewed the binding posts. I then drilled small holes in the pod and screwed the binding posts in place and resined them on the inside once the speaker wire was soldered. This is now 100% sealed and you can use banana clips or simply screw the speaker wire into the lugs on the outside of the enclosure.


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## schauhan (Apr 29, 2004)

What difference really it makes to have the speaker enclosure 100% air tight or having a hole in it for the wires etc.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

schauhan said:


> What difference really it makes to have the speaker enclosure 100% air tight or having a hole in it for the wires etc.


As long as the enclosure is the proper size, you will get better bass response. if you take the time to make custom pods then take the time to finish them right.


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

But door pods are not really gonna be sealed are they? Basically the entire backside is open to the inside of the door, which is not sealed.


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

Azgrower said:


> But door pods are not really gonna be sealed are they? Basically the entire backside is open to the inside of the door, which is not sealed.


no you make it the entire enclosure one peice i.e. sealed


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Based on his post I was assuming he built sealed pods to house the mid-bass drivers. If they are not sealed pods then your right it would be pointless.


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

Thats what I took from the thread, that he just basically made the pods more as a mounting area, kinda like this pic, you see that the pods are there for a place to mount the speakers in the doors. If he did do a full sealed pod, then yeah you would want to keep it all sealed by adding the "silly-cone".


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