# vg30e to vg30de



## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

ok, without telling me how hard or pain in the ass it will be, what ALL do i need to convert from the single cam engine to the double cam engine? ie;ecu, manifolds, wiring harness, vg30de lol, whatever... if you know, let ME know. thanks. 

ps. this is a 98 vg30de going into a 91 se.


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## MGBRaceman (Nov 22, 2002)

*VG30DE*

I'm actually not sure if this would be an easy swap as I've never seen it done. I haven't been in the Nissan world for very long so don't take my word for it. If it is true that there aren't any kits available to switch motors. You may want to go with a VE30DE with VG internals. Just a thought.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

ill check on that as well... from what ive heard, its the same block and the biggest difference is the ecu and wiring harness...


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

I thought there was some reason that Nissan didn't put a VG30DE in the Maxima. They already had it in the Z, but came up with the VE as thier performance "solution".

Maybe they didn't want the Max to have the same power as the Z, but I thought that it was a packaging problem... it didn't fit under the hood. If you see a FSTB on a Max with the VE, there isn't a lot of room left up top. I haven't done a comparison though.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

ok then... im not up for the hardest swap of the year award, lol. what do i have to do then to go from the boat anchor 160 horse engine i have now over to the 190 horse engine? money at this point is no problem... not endless but enough to do the job, what am i looking at, material wise for the swap?


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

If money is no problem, then you don't need an engine swap... you need a car swap. Go buy a 92-94 SE and the engine swap has already been done. Why reinvent the wheel unless you don't have anything better to do?

Either that or you need to get one that has an Auto or 5spd like yours that got totalled except for the drivetrain... then you have everything you need and can figure it out.

BTW: the VE uses a different auto trans than the VG in a Max.

If you have a VG30DE already, start doing some measurements. A VG30DE swap into a Max would be a really cool thing... dunno if it will fit. You already know the other stuff you'd need.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

Where are you getting a *98* VG30DE from anyway?


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

i found a private owner that has a turnkey engine + ecu for me. 800 bucks with 30k on it. i wanna do this car cuz ive already got suspension work done to it, among other things, and the car is somewhat of a rarity here in az. its a black se, 5spd with the bose system. weve had it since 93(?). the a/c is still very cold and it ran great until the injectors started going bad a couple months ago. rather than fix the 200k engine in it now, i thought it would be nicer and sweeter if we upgraded it, you know? so, that said, any other ideas? i have a fast altima as well, and a very fast truck, but i wanna fix this one up too. thanks.


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## tsi200sx (Nov 8, 2002)

The heads on a VG30DE are significantly wider than those on a VG30E. Over at Club S12 us 200SX V6 guys have discussed this VG30DE swap idea quite a bit. Our cars are a RWD setup, and the VG30E in the SE's are a pretty tight squeeze, and the VG30DE heads will not clear the wheelwells. You wouldn't have that exact same problem in a FWD Maxima of course, but the overall width of the engine still could be a big issue.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

Asleep_94_Altima said:


> *i found a private owner that has a turnkey engine + ecu for me. 800 bucks with 30k on it.
> 
> ...rather than fix the 200k engine in it now...*


I guess my question is what is this engine from? From what I know and can tell, '97 was the last year for the VG30DE, and that was in the Infiniti J30. Otherwise, $800 for a 30K engine and ECU is a good deal, even if it sits in the garage for 10 years.

Hey, don't knock 200K. A good engine that has been maintained is just getting started at 200k. I understand your desire for "ooommmph" though.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

now you have me wondering what it came out of... ill call today and find out. yeah, like i said, the engine ran fine. cant keep up with my altima and thats what also is pushing me to build this one up. as far as the size thing goes, ill have to measure that out and see what we are looking at. i could go and spend money on a new car, but it wouldnt be as satisfying. and no one wants a payment when you already have a couple of paid off cars... didnt the max engine go to 190 horse in 93 or so? maybe 92? id go that route too, its all a matter of what i need to do and where to get the parts from.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

tsi200sx said:


> *The heads on a VG30DE are significantly wider than those on a VG30E. ...but the overall width of the engine still could be a big issue. *


Any idea/comment on how the size of the VE30DE compares to the VG30DE? If I remember correctly (from reading somewhere long ago) that the VG30DE wasn't going to make into the 3rd gen Max because of its size or "packaging", but they wanted more performnce in the Max, thus they used the technology (but not the parts) from the VG30DE and... voila... the VE was born.

Again, if I'm not mistaken, the VE is still a VG on the bottom with different heads, intake and timing gear. If I'm right, maybe a VE swap is what you need for your S12.... or maybe my VE33DE idea would work.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

you guys got me thinking about things a little more now. SOMETHING is going into that car, lol. we'll figure it out. keep the ideas flowing, thanks.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

Asleep_94_Altima said:


> *now you have me wondering what it came out of... ill call today and find out. yeah, like i said, the engine ran fine. cant keep up with my altima and thats what also is pushing me to build this one up.
> 
> didnt the max engine go to 190 horse in 93 or so? maybe 92? *


You could get cams and a reprogrammed ECU for your VG30E. Maybe a little head work. Just about anything that can be done to a 84-89 300ZX's engine can be done to yours. I think there is a healthy parts bin available.

The SE got the VE30DE in 92-94.

The other interesting question that I saw yesterday (either here or at maxima.org) is whether a VQ from later Maximas would work in a 3rd gen. That's a completely different animal, but I don't know if it'll bolt in or not. I think it would "fit" because it was built for packaging as well as power, but don't know how it bolts up. That would be cool as well. The '94 with the VE uses (one of) the same auto trans that the '95 VQ uses, if that helps any. 

*tsi200sx:* any input here? Another possibilty for the 200 maybe.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

See http://www.nissanforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=123579#post123579 as well for an idea or two.


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## nismo1989 (Jan 13, 2003)

It's going to take a lot of work to get it to fit. Why would you want to use that specific engine? Why not a VG30ET from an 89 or something? Swap the manifolds and wiring, and use the VG internals. Oila, you have a turbocharged Maxima...

For the price of putting the VG30DE in you could get a bulletproof VG30E that's cryo treated and will smoke the socks off of the VG30DE anyway. Not to mention you don't sacfafice the low-end...


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

Nismo: you missed the $800 30K miles part above I think. That was a good reason to ask the initial questions.

A turbo setup is an option, and this is good information to have, but turbos aren't the answer to every question. Maybe he's not looking to "smoke the socks off" of anything... maybe he is. Maybe he just wants "some" more power.

Besides, the VG30DE as a pretty good engine too.


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## nismo1989 (Jan 13, 2003)

jc93se said:


> *Nismo: you missed the $800 30K miles part above I think. That was a good reason to ask the initial questions.
> 
> A turbo setup is an option, and this is good information to have, but turbos aren't the answer to every question. Maybe he's not looking to "smoke the socks off" of anything... maybe he is. Maybe he just wants "some" more power.
> 
> Besides, the VG30DE as a pretty good engine too. *


I assumed that since he was taking on such a task that he was out to gain performance. There is no way to get that DOHC engine into the engine bay without some modification to the body of the car. He would have an easier/cheaper time going the route I suggested, that's why I suggested it. I've seen the two engines side-by-side, and there's no way it would fit easily, and even then you won't get the hood shut.

I didn't miss the part about $800 and 30K, that's not remarkable or anything. The project a friend of mine and myself are working on right now with a 91 involves a JDM VG30ET that was purchased for the same price with only 5K more miles. Just because he can get that engine for $800 doesn't mean it's at all feasable or logical to take on the project, unless money is no issue, in which case why is he toying with a 13+year old car anyway??? If he had the know-how to get that engine in that car for less than the $9K it costs to get a bulletproff 300hp N/A cryo-treated VG30E, he wouldn't be posting questions about it here, right? 
Asleep: take some kind of thought to what I said about swapping parts from an older Z engine. What you're suggesting is probably much to extensive and expensive to want to take on... the ends wouldn't justify the means. Good luck whatever you choose to do, though. For more reference, you should check out NissanX.com there is a 3rd gen maxima forum and my buddy on there is taking on the project right now. You should be able to find some valuable info in the archives or ask mtcookson (Mark). Good luck!

BTW: jc93se, I'm not sure how you are going to get that VG33 block to bolt up to your VE, but if you figure it out be sure to take pics and try to do some kind of write up if you find the time. That's also one hell-of-a-project to take on and I wish ya luck. If you havent' searched the archives at Maxima.org, I would check that out too. There's a lot of info there about such swaps if you can sift through all of the useless crap.


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## Ruben (Oct 15, 2002)

I wish I could add some words of advice but you guys covered all the bases.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

kewl, im not dead set on any one build up. i didnt think it was going to be this involved... i want more power but it doesnt have to be shit hot fast. im open to any suggestions, INCLUDING the turbo idea... im setting up a turbo on my altima... so, no one ever answered one of my initial questions; when did the 190 horse version come out and is there anything special i have to have to install it. ie; again, ecu, manifolds, etc. thanks guys. oh and money isnt the issue or the age of the vehicle. im just working with what i have and if its expensive, im not going to break the bank, but ill consider the idea.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

nismo1989 said:


> * There is no way to get that DOHC engine into the engine bay without some modification to the body of the car. I've seen the two engines side-by-side, and there's no way it would fit easily, and even then you won't get the hood shut.*


Well, I think he finally got the initial answer he was looking for. He wanted to know if it was possible... now we know it isn't.

His second unstated question was "what WAS possible". You have provided some valuable food for his thought, I think.



nismo1989 said:


> * BTW: jc93se, I'm not sure how you are going to get that VG33 block to bolt up to your VE, but if you figure it out be sure to take pics and try to do some kind of write up if you find the time. *


I'm not sure either, but I'm not trying it... yet. My floating question still stands... is or isn't the block/bottom end of the VE the same as a VG?? If so, one would be able to bolt on the heads and intake.... right? Then you'd have a VE33DE. If so, your VG30ET could be a VG33ET if you wanted to go that route. I understand that the VG is a timing belt engine and the VE is a chain... I hadn't gotten that far yet. First questions first.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

Asleep_94_Altima said:


> * so, no one ever answered one of my initial questions; when did the 190 horse version come out *


I did:



jc93se said:


> *The SE got the VE30DE in 92-94. *


VE30DE = 190 tq, 190 hp (stock  )



Asleep_94_Altima said:


> *and is there anything special i have to have to install it. ie; again, ecu, manifolds, etc. *


Well, I think I answered that too... get the totalled Maxima SE from 92-94. The VE only came in a Maxima. If you get the VE engine (and trans if an auto), you have what you need with the manifolds on it. You need the harness and ECU too. You'd get an aftermarket y-pipe. Maybe drive shafts with the different transmission? If you get the totalled Max, take the intrument cluster too maybe.... 140mph speedometer.


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## nismo1989 (Jan 13, 2003)

jc93se said:


> *... is or isn't the block/bottom end of the VE the same as a VG?? *


No, unfortunately not. About the only thing the two engines share in common is tranny mounts, and I may be mistaken on that but I'm pretty sure they are the same. That's about it. The VGs and the VEs are so remarkably different. It's hard to believe for me, looking at the cars from the outside and seeing that they are identical in every way except for the taillights and grill, but they are very different. The only thing I know of that can be swapped is the tranny, but in order to swap a VE tranny with LSD into a VG you have to swap the half shafts too.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

ahhh, lol so you did. i guess i was seeing what i wanted to see... hmmm, i can get a 92-94 engine fairly easy as well... as far as the ecu and cluster though...  that will take some fancy footwork and homework. this all btw, will be taking place within the next 2-3 weeks. ive got the resources and the know-how, its just i want to cover my bases before im in over my head and cant turn back... same as you.  what are the major differences in heads then between the 160 horse and the 190 hp engine? the ones ive got now i had ported and polished about 60k miles ago... if i can clean up and reuse them, it would be nice...


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## nismo1989 (Jan 13, 2003)

Asleep_94_Altima said:


> *kewl, im not dead set on any one build up. i didnt think it was going to be this involved... i want more power but it doesnt have to be shit hot fast. im open to any suggestions, INCLUDING the turbo idea... im setting up a turbo on my altima... so, no one ever answered one of my initial questions; when did the 190 horse version come out and is there anything special i have to have to install it. ie; again, ecu, manifolds, etc. thanks guys. oh and money isnt the issue or the age of the vehicle. im just working with what i have and if its expensive, im not going to break the bank, but ill consider the idea. *


To install a VE motor in a VG, again the ends don't justify the means. It can be done, however, by making new motor mounts and swapping the ECU, wiring harness, and the tranny/half shafts... but jeeze that's a lot to go through!! By the time you do all that, you could have saved money selling your VG and buying a VE!!!! Honda swaps are easier because the cars are so cheaply made. Nissan has always had performance and driving experience in mind when they did development, something Honda has only touched on as recently as last year IMO...

For a lot less money you can build a VG to run with any stock VE (I know, I've built one that no stock VE could even touch) and in the end you have a much more reliable engine.


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## nismo1989 (Jan 13, 2003)

Asleep_94_Altima said:


> *ahhh, lol so you did. i guess i was seeing what i wanted to see... hmmm, i can get a 92-94 engine fairly easy as well... as far as the ecu and cluster though...  that will take some fancy footwork and homework. this all btw, will be taking place within the next 2-3 weeks. ive got the resources and the know-how, its just i want to cover my bases before im in over my head and cant turn back... same as you.  what are the major differences in heads then between the 160 horse and the 190 hp engine? the ones ive got now i had ported and polished about 60k miles ago... if i can clean up and reuse them, it would be nice... *


They are very different, as with everything else on the engine...

Sounds to me like your VG is already on it's way to being faster than a VE swap anyway. Try a cam swap, and a cold air intake. That will do wonders. You could also, for around $500 or so, get a JWT ECU that will advance your timing and rev. Expensive, but great mod to have. Since you have done a port & polish, you should also increase your injector flow-rate to take advantage of that. Your injectors could probably stand to be replaced anyway.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

Asleep_94_Altima said:


> *what are the major differences in heads then between the 160 horse and the 190 hp engine? *


DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder, VTCs (variable valve timing), timing chain, direct ignition. Did I forget anything? Oh, and Nismo just said that the VE and VG are different animals so the wouldn't bolt anyway...


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

the injectors are the problem with the engine right now as you correctly called out. i had upgraded them sometime back. i think, if i remember right, we used 300ztt injectors, but i could be wrong. thanks for all the info, im nowhere near done with this. so, IN YOUR HONEST OPINION, a non smoking but running rough vg with 200k and bad injectors is still worth building on? aside from new injectors and a tune-up, is it worth messing with still? id happily go with this engine again, since its been very good from the 20k it had when we first got it.


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## nismo1989 (Jan 13, 2003)

Asleep_94_Altima said:


> *the injectors are the problem with the engine right now as you correctly called out. i had upgraded them sometime back. i think, if i remember right, we used 300ztt injectors, but i could be wrong. thanks for all the info, im nowhere near done with this. so, IN YOUR HONEST OPINION, a non smoking but running rough vg with 200k and bad injectors is still worth building on? aside from new injectors and a tune-up, is it worth messing with still? id happily go with this engine again, since its been very good from the 20k it had when we first got it. *


I have 198K miles.... .... and nitrous!!

Don't focus on the mileage, focus on how the mileage affects the performance. Building on your current VG is still a more cost effective idea than anything else you've been throwing out so far, so I vote go for it! There is so much you can do with that engine. You won't find what you need in a ricer parts catalog or at your local speed shop, but if you know your stuff and do a little research you'll uncover the hidden potential behind Nissan's toughest production engine ever (that's why they used it in various cars and trucks for so many years). VEs were around for 3 years, and rathar than try to build on what was already developed or fix the glitches it was scrapped for the VQ. There is a really good reason for that! Any VE guy will probably tell you otherwise, but I've had both...

I still have my VG. I sold my VE for half of what I paid for it a year after I got it just to get rid of it. Once my VG was faster than the VE, it was pointless to have around anyway. Sure, I miss the variable timing.... except when it was ticking at me and annoying the crap out of me and killing the performance and gas mileage of the engine! lol


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

Asleep: Off-topic, but what/how does the Flowmaster muffler sound on your car?


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

*nismo1989:* one last (stupid?) question. To your knowledge, will a VQ fit/mount into a 3rd gen Maxima? I'm not talking about merits of a swap or "ends justify the means", just can it/will it?


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## nismo1989 (Jan 13, 2003)

jc93se said:


> *nismo1989: one last (stupid?) question. To your knowledge, will a VQ fit/mount into a 3rd gen Maxima? I'm not talking about merits of a swap or "ends justify the means", just can it/will it? *


Um, well, anything is possible. Not worth trying, though. There is one guy that I know of that is actually trying this. I'll be sure to post his results here. As for now, though, I would guess no. I mean, you could put a V8 stroker in a 3rd gen if you had the time and the butt load of money it would take, but it's an "ends justify the means" thing IMO


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

jc93se said:


> *Asleep: Off-topic, but what/how does the Flowmaster muffler sound on your car? *


 very low and growly. its a 2 chamber so theres hardly any restriction either. is pretty much only loud now when im either high in the revs or at wot. once i installed my header though, at 3300-4500 it got tinny. then it goes away and the exhaust just, for the lack of a better description, roars. sounds good, even some hardcore anti-flowmaster import guys liked it. for the price, i love it. 2.25 in for 63 bucks.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2003)

nismo1989 said:


> * "ends justify the means" thing*


I think the whole point here is it depends on what one's "ends" are whether the means are justified or not... to them.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

off topic as well: i know that the 2nd gen maxis share calipers, wheel bearings, transmissions and brake pads... what about wheel HUBS? i havent had time to tear into the one i have, but i do know about the other things. im swapping my car over to a 5 lug and the wheel hub is the last obstacle. seeing as how the wheel bearing and caliper are the same and so is the tranny, im thinking that the chances of the wheel hub matching up to a non abs, non lsd, cv joint will be pretty good as well. thoughts, knowledge? and i agree, the means being justified are up to the individual with the vision in mind. 
now back to the other problem, which cams were used in a cam swap for the vg30? are we being brand specific or are we talking about 300z cams?


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## nismo1989 (Jan 13, 2003)

Asleep_94_Altima said:


> *off topic as well: i know that the 2nd gen maxis share calipers, wheel bearings, transmissions and brake pads... what about wheel HUBS? i havent had time to tear into the one i have, but i do know about the other things. im swapping my car over to a 5 lug and the wheel hub is the last obstacle. seeing as how the wheel bearing and caliper are the same and so is the tranny, im thinking that the chances of the wheel hub matching up to a non abs, non lsd, cv joint will be pretty good as well. thoughts, knowledge? and i agree, the means being justified are up to the individual with the vision in mind.
> now back to the other problem, which cams were used in a cam swap for the vg30? are we being brand specific or are we talking about 300z cams? *


You can use the cams from the Z, but they would have to be milled to fit. Nismo makes cams for the VG30E, as does a few other companies that I can't think of right now. Research the sites I mentioned before, especially Maxima.org, and you're bound to find a ton of info. 
I'm not sure about the wheel hubs. Oh, and I thought you had a 3rd gen? The layout of the 2nd and 3rd gen VGs is different, isn't it?


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

oops, i forgot to mention that in the previous post, i actually have a first gen altima. the altima and 2nd gen max share those parts i mentioned... sorry about that. does jwt carry cams for the max?


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## nismo1989 (Jan 13, 2003)

Asleep_94_Altima said:


> *oops, i forgot to mention that in the previous post, i actually have a first gen altima. the altima and 2nd gen max share those parts i mentioned... sorry about that. does jwt carry cams for the max? *


I think so. www.jimwolftechnology.com ??

Contact them by phone. They do a LOT more than they advertise on thier site. They will do ANYTHING, if you have the money...


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

kewl man, thanks for all the info. im building two nissans and i know more about one than the other and im trying to change that... my altima is currently undergoing a 2000 ka24de swap. gettin some good treatment on its trip from the salvage yard to my engine bay. looking for mid 14's at the end of this swap, all motor. lets see what i can do for the maxima.


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## elusivemax91 (Jul 15, 2004)

deleted


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

Woohoo!! way to dig up a 1.5 year old thread that's full of BS!!

The engine mounts look similar between the VE and VG, but they're notwhere near the same. I've got a set of both sitting on my garage floor, and the VE ones are much larger. mounting points are slightly different.

the crossmember is the same for both, but the engine mounts are different.

besides, the mounts are the easiest part of the whole job. I want to see someone do it... Then I'll point and laugh because some idiot went through all that work for only 30hp....


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

way to bump a useless thread. if i could lock it, i would.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

have the admin make me a moderator and I'll fix him good.


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