# Unable to diagnose starter problem.



## rchildress87 (Oct 15, 2008)

The car in question is a 1996 Nissan 200SX SE-R with a 2.0 liter SR engine and an automatic transmission.

Here's the problem:

I turn ignition clockwise from position one ("off") to position three ("on").
All dashboard lights turn on, radio starts, automatic windows work, and fuel pump begins to prime.
I wait several seconds and continue turning ignition clockwise to fourth and final position ("start") in attempt to start car.
Starter does not engage and makes absolutely no sound.
Engine does not even try to turn over.

This problem happened for the first time one week ago. I pulled the whole starter and had it tested at my local AutoZone. The starter failed the test twice but then passed multiple times in a row. I decided to replace the solenoid. After I reinstalled the starter, it appeared as though the new solenoid had fixed the problem. Today, my car is again unable to start. Initially, it appears to be the same problem.

While going through a starter troubleshooting checklist, I tested the voltage output on my battery. With the car off, my battery is producing ~11.4v. I believe it should be closer to 12.6v or even higher if the car is running. The car has been turned off for about 36 hours and it is my best guess that the battery is mostly charged. Does this sound like a battery that is going bad? Assuming that another bad starter solenoid is the culprit and must again be replaced, is it possible that the lack of voltage my battery is outputting is placing strain on the solenoids and eventually breaking them?

If a bad battery is unlikely what is killing my solenoids so quickly, what else could it be?

If my starter is frozen and the solenoid is still good, would I hear a click coming from it when I turn my ignition to its fourth position ("start")?

I am fairly sure that I need another solenoid. However, I need to find out why the keep dieing, first. Please help!


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## LvR. (May 26, 2010)

Simple enough to test the starter/solenoid combination right there in the car ................. grab a fat screwdriver and short out the 2 big terminals on the back of the solenoid - if the starter turns you know either the solenoid is gone again or you have a wiring/connection/immobilizer/auto selector safety interlock/ignition switch problem - no quick fix for that - FSM has the diagrams and you have to trace the voltage/current flow.




> The starter failed the test twice but then passed multiple times in a row.


Don't care how many times it passed - if it failed the test once there obviously is something wrong

Battery at 11.4V after 36 hours? - IMO its either on its way out or it was not properly charged before the car sat. Fully charged battery will measure 12.6V @ 20C ......... colder and it goes lower. Motor running with big loads turned on must give you 13.6V+ @ 2500rpm+. The actual no-load battery voltage being low is not the problem here IMO - I have seen starter solenoids operate as low as 9V (and they should be if you think about it)


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## rchildress87 (Oct 15, 2008)

I was talking with my friend and he suggested that instead of the solenoid, it might have been the starter motor all along. Maybe I freed up the starter motor during the initial removal and testing a week ago which allowed it to turn again, temporarily. He also suggested that the new solenoid might have put strain on my old starter motor and finally killed the motor for good.

However, the starter solenoid is still not clicking when I turn the ignition completely to it's fourth position ("start"). Does this just reaffirm my original idea that the solenoid is bad?

Finally, my battery's voltage output is continuing to decrease. It was at ~10.3v about 15 minutes ago. This makes me think that there is nothing wrong with the battery and that it is just losing its charge due to inactivity. I cannot run a proper test on the battery until tomorrow, at the earliest.


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## LvR. (May 26, 2010)

rchildress87 said:


> I was talking with my friend and he suggested that instead of the solenoid, it might have been the starter motor all along. Maybe I freed up the starter motor during the initial removal and testing a week ago which allowed it to turn again, temporarily. He also suggested that the new solenoid might have put strain on my old starter motor and finally killed the motor for good.
> 
> However, the starter solenoid is still not clicking when I turn the ignition completely to it's fourth position ("start"). Does this just reaffirm my original idea that the solenoid is bad?
> 
> Finally, my battery's voltage output is continuing to decrease. It was at ~10.3v about 15 minutes ago. This makes me think that there is nothing wrong with the battery and that it is just losing its charge due to inactivity. I cannot run a proper test on the battery until tomorrow, at the earliest.


Solenoid cannot possibly put any sort of strain on the actual starter motor - the solenoid simply feeds power to it - the only thing that can put strain on the starter is the actual engine with its rotational inertia and friction

FSM is the answer for a non-clicking solenoid and in particular the items I listed before.

That battery voltage thing needs to be sorted first IMO - if its not the answer to your starter problems now, it definitely will cause you miseries in the near future if the battery is on its way out ................ sound to me like a bad cell


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

x2 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Rotten battery...Deal cell @ 10.3v. 2.1v per cell x 5 = 10.5v. Likely an open cell, probably the one on the negative terminal.
Turn on the headlights and take another voltage reading. See how much it drops off, or if the headlights even light up. Then hit the key and see if the headlight dim out a bit, go out completely, or don't change brightness at all. A lot of good info can be had with that one simple check.


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

If it does this again, get something solid, a steel rod, hammer etc and whack the starter body, not the electrical connections or anything like that.
If it starts chances are the brushes are worn and not making contact with the Armature.
take starter apart and you can confirm.
This only works for a short while so don't think this will work for days or weeks !!!
If you can find brushes for it, its and easy fix so long as the armature is good, IE not badly grooved or visibly damaged. don't worry about the black sheen.

Other possibility is a sticking solenoid, but you have replaced that.
Charge the battery up, it may be just flat.... if it doesn't come up to 13.0 V after being on a charger overnight then its bad.


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

BTW I would expect it to crank but slowly with a dead cell so long as it was charged. Engine may not start, but it will crank.


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

That's what I'd normally expect too...until last year when the OEM Nissan battery died with an 'open cell' (cell 'bridges' broke off maybe?) rather than the normal 'shorted cell' (i.e. warped plates).
I could easily light a headlight by hooking up to the positive post and putting the wire directly into the 2nd cell away from the negative post, but plug 'er into the negative terminal and it's a no-go, barely lit up.
But that was a one-off situation I'm sure, not a normal case.


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## doughboy09bravo (Mar 5, 2011)

:newbie:Hi all, new guy here. I actually joined to ask pretty much the same question. I bought a 99 Sentra yesterday with the false pretense that the starter was bad. It was freezing out today and I really wanted to take my new ride to a wrestling tournament tomorrow so I called a mechanic to replace my starter. I picked one up, went to the mech and we swaped it out. He took it off the lift and I turned the key. All I got was the click of the soleniod and it sounded like the starter trying to turn. He immediatly checked the battery and said it seemed fine, he noticed one terminal was a little corroded so we replaced it. We still got the same thing. By this time it was 445 on a friday and time for him to go home. I left it over the weekend for him to play with on Monday. Anyone have any ideas what to check next? Its not that I dont trust him, I just want to give him some ideas as he usually works on my antique cars with no computers. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!:newbie:


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