# KA24E Header Glow



## redneck truck (Oct 4, 2004)

Just thought id throw a few symptoms at you guys and see what you come up with - hopefully someone on here knows what generally tends to go wrong w/ these engines. 

The truck is a 93 shortbed pickup, ka24e engine, manual trans, 2 wheel drive. since i bought the truck, i have done TONS of maintenance which, until i bought it, had been neglected for quite a while. day after i bought it, i changed the oil (came out like cake batter so i filled it, ran it, and changed it again - came out just as dirty and almost as thick the 2nd time), filter, spark plugs, wires, capnrotor, fuel filter, tranny and rear end fluid, pcv valve, air filter, cleaned the intake tract w/ carb cleaner and seafoam, and replaced the o2 sensor, and it finally passed emissions. after the o2 sensor, CO emissions went from 9.6% to 0.1%, HC went from 280ppm to 21ppm, and NOX remained at about 20ppm. SO - needless to say, it was running VERY rich before, and the new o2 sensor fixed it. a few weeks ago, i finally got around to tackling the timing chain, probably just in time, as i picked most of the driver's side chain guide out of the oil pan. and, to spare everyone the next obvious question, the o2 sensor IS the right o2 sensor, and the chain IS correctly timed.

finally, the symptoms: last night, after a normal drive (wasnt pushing the motor to the limit or anything), i opened the hood and noticed that the header was glowing red (not very bright, but visible in the dark). the truck also suffers from a TOTAL lack of power - i honestly think this is the slowest vehicle i have ever driven, mine or anybody else's. however, right when i start up in the morning, it is reasonably fast - after about a minute of warming up, all the power disappears. The only other problem with the engine, whether related or not, is a lot of exhaust leaks. Just a note - the distributor is turned all the way clockwise (advanced), although the engine doesn't show any signs of advanced ignition timing (backfiring out the intake, difficulty when starting, POWER, knock), so i think that when the timing chain was replaced before by the previous owner, he may have gotten the oil pump driveshaft, and therefore, the distributor, off a tooth. when i put it back together after replacing the timing chain, the distributor rotor and housing perfectly matched the marks i made when i removed it, so i don't know if it is a problem.

The glowing manifold leads me to believe that the problem (assuming there is only one) is either an extremely lean condition or retarded ignition timing. The lack of power could be any number of things. If anybody on here has seen or heard of anything like this, please post your thoughts, other tests, etc. i am borrowing a timing light in the next couple of days to rule out ignition timing, assuming i can figure out how to read the marks on the balancer. but let me know what you guys think.
thanks,

- Bryan


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## redneck truck (Oct 4, 2004)

I already posted this in the trucks/suvs forum, but it looks like this is more appropriate a place for it. Just throwing some symptoms out there to see if anybody knows whats wrong w/ my truck.

The truck is a 93 shortbed pickup, ka24e engine, manual trans, 2 wheel drive. since i bought the truck, i have done TONS of maintenance which, until i bought it, had been neglected for quite a while. day after i bought it, i changed the oil (came out like cake batter so i filled it, ran it, and changed it again - came out just as dirty and almost as thick the 2nd time), filter, spark plugs, wires, capnrotor, fuel filter, tranny and rear end fluid, pcv valve, air filter, cleaned the intake tract w/ carb cleaner and seafoam, and replaced the o2 sensor, and it finally passed emissions. after the o2 sensor, CO emissions went from 9.6% to 0.1%, HC went from 280ppm to 21ppm, and NOX remained at about 20ppm. SO - needless to say, it was running VERY rich before, and the new o2 sensor fixed it. a few weeks ago, i finally got around to tackling the timing chain, probably just in time, as i picked most of the driver's side chain guide out of the oil pan. and, to spare everyone the next obvious question, the o2 sensor IS the right o2 sensor, and the chain IS correctly timed.

finally, the symptoms: last night, after a normal drive (wasnt pushing the motor to the limit or anything), i opened the hood and noticed that the header was glowing red (not very bright, but visible in the dark). the truck also suffers from a TOTAL lack of power - i honestly think this is the slowest vehicle i have ever driven, mine or anybody else's. however, right when i start up in the morning, it is reasonably fast - after about a minute of warming up, all the power disappears. The only other problem with the engine, whether related or not, is a lot of exhaust leaks. Just a note - the distributor is turned all the way clockwise (advanced), although the engine doesn't show any signs of advanced ignition timing (backfiring out the intake, difficulty when starting, POWER, knock), so i think that when the timing chain was replaced before by the previous owner, he may have gotten the oil pump driveshaft, and therefore, the distributor, off a tooth. when i put it back together after replacing the timing chain, the distributor rotor and housing perfectly matched the marks i made when i removed it, so i don't know if it is a problem.

The glowing manifold leads me to believe that the problem (assuming there is only one) is either an extremely lean condition or retarded ignition timing. The lack of power could be any number of things. If anybody on here has seen or heard of anything like this, please post your thoughts, other tests, etc. i am borrowing a timing light in the next couple of days to rule out ignition timing, assuming i can figure out how to read the marks on the balancer. but let me know what you guys think.
thanks,

- Bryan


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## br2an (Mar 9, 2004)

> Just a note - the distributor is turned all the way clockwise (advanced), although the engine doesn't show any signs of advanced ignition timing


I think you should remove the distributor and rotate it 'a tooth' back. I would guess that the timing is not advanced to specs, but is actually retarded. This will cause the lack of power and a fuel 'afterburn' in the manifold. Wait till you get your timing light and you will know for sure. Another possible cause might be a restricted exhaust (cat converter?).

Good Luck

Brian A


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## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

Concur. That definitely sounds like messed up ignition timing. It also shouldn't feel like the slowest car you've ever driven (unless all you have are Vipers) because these trucks can easily keep up with fast traffic -- especially the 2wd trucks.


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## redneck truck (Oct 4, 2004)

thats cool thanks for the input ....how about this though - any idea what could be causing the delay in the slowness? for the first 30 seconds to a minute it feels at least reasonably fast, like you described. the catalytic convertor is a possibility though - before i replaced the o2 sensor it had the rotten egg smell pretty bad, and for about 3 weeks. i just don't know if the cat would _remain_ clogged after the richness problem was fixed. however, if a cat doesn't get plugged only when the vehicle is warm, this explanation doesn't account for the minute or so that the truck actually has power.

also - i was searching through google last night and it was one person's opinion that a dim glow visible only in the dark is normal, and this is what it does. was he correct? i just hate to think how it would look if i actually drove it hard 

oh - another point of interest (in case you run across somebody else w/ distributor problems): the distributor spindle is keyed so it only fits into the oil pump driveshaft one way, and since the oil pump is geared off the crank and can't turn when it is installed, the only option is to remove the oil pump but leave the distributor on, rotate the distributor rotor to the desired setting, and reinstall the oil pump to match the distributor. maybe they designed it that way so it would be easier to correctly set the distributor after you remove only it, but in this situation, i can't see it being useful at all  thanks for the info guys - ill keep you posted

- Bryan


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

my first two thoughts are ignition timing and Cat Conv.. if the header is glowing, then there's an obstruction in the eshaust. if the rest of the system is full of leaks, then that tells me the cat is blocking the flow. that will cause the heat issues and loss of power. the previous issue of runnign extremely rich can cause the cat to melt and fail.
more detailed info here: http://www.car-sound.com/03failure02.htm

the ignition (or cam) timing being off just one tooth will still allow the truck to run, although very poorly.. It couls also be causing the exhaust problems by dumping raw fuel into the exhaust from the cam being off. it's worth looking at as well.

another note.. these trucks were never fast. my dad used to have one, and we used to make jokes about it being the "gutless wonder".. no power at all, but we could still tow a boat or a trailer with a car on it- just not that fast. So don't be surprised if it doesn't make a ton more power when you figure out the problem. good luck!


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## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

The fact that the engine was running very rich before means your cat could be clogged up. A rich condition will do that. I think you have a few issues...maybe a half-plugged converter AND incorrect timing. How about when you're just in neutral revving the engine. Does it rev freely, or does it still feel stopped up, even when in neutral?


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## redneck truck (Oct 4, 2004)

it free-rev's ok, but is kind of bumpy getting up there ..like the tach is sticking or something, but it isn't. i attribute that to misfiring, but i am not certain. how would i remedy a plugged cat? is replacement the only way? i had a friend who said he chipped away at the melted (plugged?) area of the cat and it worked fine. i can't see buying a new catalytic convertor just to test it and see if that is what's wrong. what do you guys think?

- Bryan


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## redneck truck (Oct 4, 2004)

i am certain that the cam timing is correct, as i went over it a number of times, just to make sure. it doesn't run THAT poorly, and it idles fine, at 750-800 rpm ...it is just slow. and right now, it already feels like i am towing a trailer with a boat and a car on it. there is no way any vehicle in stock form could EVER be this slow. anyway, the cat sounds like an issue worth addressing ...maybe i could just unbolt the down pipe and see how it runs. would you think that would contaminate the o2 sensor and make it run rich? the ignition timing is another one that i am planning to check out, but i will need a timing light. have to get one of those before i can properly address it. i just don't understand why it runs SO well when it is cold, and becomes completely sluggish after about a minute of driving. perhaps a sensor that isn't used until the engine is warm? any ideas would be helpful. thanks

- Bryan


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## redneck truck (Oct 4, 2004)

another thing i had been considering: what about sensors that are not used until the engine is warm? that would account for the minute or so that the engine runs great. i am pretty sure ford computers don't use the mass airflow sensor and air charge temperature sensor right away, so maybe the same applies to these engines. what do you think?

- Bryan


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

The NissanForums Rules do not allow duplicate threads. I merged the one in the Trucks Section with this one.

Please don't do this again, ask a moderator to move it if you think it's in the wrong section.

Lew


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## redneck truck (Oct 4, 2004)

*---UPDATED--- KA24E Header Glow*

Well i put a timing light on it and, if i am reading it correctly (when it flashes, the very left mark is about 1cm to the right of the needle), the timing is set 10-15° ATDC (waaay retarded) ....is this possible? is there any way that the engine could be pulling timing at idle, and to this degree? The distributor is turned ALL the way to the right (advanced), so either it means that it is so far advanced that it is knocking at idle and retarding the timing to 10-15atdc, or the oil pump spindle is retarded a tooth or two on its drive gear. any insight regarding how to tell which it is would be very helpful at this point. thanks

- Bryan


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

******* truck said:


> Well i put a timing light on it and, if i am reading it correctly (when it flashes, the very left mark is about 1cm to the right of the needle), the timing is set 10-15° ATDC (waaay retarded) ....is this possible? is there any way that the engine could be pulling timing at idle, and to this degree? The distributor is turned ALL the way to the right (advanced), so either it means that it is so far advanced that it is knocking at idle and retarding the timing to 10-15atdc, or the oil pump spindle is retarded a tooth or two on its drive gear. any insight regarding how to tell which it is would be very helpful at this point. thanks
> 
> - Bryan


Timing retard should only go to zero advance, not below that. Pull the distributor, advance it 2 teeth and re-drop it. That should put it back in the middle of it's adjustability range, where it should be. As far as the glowing header, I concur with the other observations. Some headers will always glow though, especially after some hard driving.


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## redneck truck (Oct 4, 2004)

a weird occurance (im taking every last precaution before i tear it apart again): put the light on it right when i started the engine, and the timing was TDC... after about 30 seconds (the amount of time it takes to get REALLY slow), it retards to about 10-15ATDC. is it normal for an engine to advance timing during warm-up and then retard to base or something like that? or is base 0 and it is retarding for some other reason?

- Bryan


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

******* truck said:


> a weird occurance (im taking every last precaution before i tear it apart again): put the light on it right when i started the engine, and the timing was TDC... after about 30 seconds (the amount of time it takes to get REALLY slow), it retards to about 10-15ATDC. is it normal for an engine to advance timing during warm-up and then retard to base or something like that? or is base 0 and it is retarding for some other reason?
> 
> - Bryan


 Yeah, what you're seeing is typical, but instead of ending up at 10-15 degrees ATDC, it should end up at zero or above, not _start_ at zero. This is just the effect of the initial start and high idle before it settles down. I've seen cold start high idle timing run as high as 25-30 degrees BTDC, before the engine settles down to its normal idle. This is very typical, the ECU does this to make the car easier to start. 
Another way to put into perspective what your seeing, zero degrees is probably your maximum advance at this point. If you could read the timing of the engine while driving, under WOT acceleration this is probably the maximum advance you would see.


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## redneck truck (Oct 4, 2004)

yah, when i raced the engine with the light on it, it advanced all the way to zero :lol so you are probably right. factory setting is 8-12°ATDC so ill see about getting some oil pump gaskets and take care of that today. thanks for all the help, and ill keep yall posted.

- Bryan


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