# Reverse Problem?



## noname (Apr 11, 2004)

I just recently purchased a 5-speed '98 200SX and it seems that the reverse is kinda tempermental on the car. Sometimes it takes forever to get it in reverse. Sometimes I let out on the clutch a little bit to try and get it to pop down into gear but it just grinds and I don't wanna mess anything up. I was wondering what's up with that and if theres a special way to make it do what you want... cause it ticks me off.


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

its prolly your bushings, i know a lot of our cars bushings get kinda hard after sitting awhile.. if you are completely stopped like you are suppose to be, it shouldn't grind.. there has been a discussion on this before, do a search and see if its still on the forums..


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## Nico Flax (May 3, 2003)

Mine Kind has the same problem, I notice if you let it roll forward a little it pops in just fine, I have a theory about why it happens but my brain is kinda fried after exam week 1... so maybe later, still got exam week 2


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## jeffinbham (Nov 1, 2003)

i always put my 200 in first before reverse, otherwise it grinds, but i think i bent the shift linkage when i was dropping the tranny to replace the clutch. it's not a solution, but it still aleviates the problem, for the most part. don't know if that helps.


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## 200sxOuTKasT (Feb 24, 2003)

It just happens, a lot of us complain about it, but nothing can be done about it. Our car's transmission is just stupid like that. It happens in my friend's car, it happens in mine, both are "newer" and treated quite well so we just figured it was a flaw built into our cars.


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## Something Funny (Nov 1, 2003)

what i do when my car does this is put the car back in neutral and let out on the cluctch. then just put it reverse


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

This could also be due to the clutch not completely disengaging. Since the forward gears are synchromesh, they can engage with the clutch slightly dragging. But, reverse is not synchromesh and will grind if the clutch is not completely disengaged.

Also, if the gears are spinning when you try to engage reverse, it will grind until they stop. If you put it into 1-st or 2-nd the gears stop, allowing reverse to be engaged more easily if you do it right away.

Lew


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## Jaralaccs (Jan 18, 2004)

I've gotten so use to this problem that instead of going straight to R, my mind just puts it in 4th ands swings it around into R unconsciously


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## 200sxOuTKasT (Feb 24, 2003)

Yeah, we each have our own "thing" we do for this problem now I see :thumbup: I myself always press on the clutch twice before going into reverse, and I notice that I rarely ever get this problem anymore.


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

all i can say... if you can't find it, GRIND IT


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

200sxOuTKasT said:


> It just happens, a lot of us complain about it, but nothing can be done about it. Our car's transmission is just stupid like that. It happens in my friend's car, it happens in mine, both are "newer" and treated quite well so we just figured it was a flaw built into our cars.


Actually, that's what a gear without synchros feels like. The only reason a lot of newer cars don't have that problem now is that so many people kept grinding reverse that manufacturers started using single (sometimes double) synchro reverse gears.


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## sfhellwig (Feb 4, 2003)

Can also be influenced by how old the fluid is. My 98' does the not going into reverse much worse now than it ever did in its first years. I also have to double clutch 2nd and 3rd alot. I have seen many people say a fluid change relieved the need for double clutching so I am assuming when I finally change mine to Redline it will help the reverse shift issue some. Just a thought.


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

sfhellwig said:


> Can also be influenced by how old the fluid is. My 98' does the not going into reverse much worse now than it ever did in its first years. I also have to double clutch 2nd and 3rd alot. I have seen many people say a fluid change relieved the need for double clutching so I am assuming when I finally change mine to Redline it will help the reverse shift issue some. Just a thought.


newer fluid can help but it might be you have a bad clutch...


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## viprdude (Jun 27, 2003)

wait till ur stopped completly, clutch in, clutch out, try again. voila.


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

or just give it a little tap tap taparoo... that helps...


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## DanTheMan (Jan 12, 2003)

*Clutch or bearing (please god not the tranny!)*



psulemon said:


> or just give it a little tap tap taparoo... that helps...


Ok my POS tranny has been difficult to shift since new in 1997 on day 1.
Nissan said it's "just fine".
This is besides the reverse issue that I am used to and often double clutch to
bypass.....
The car has always been difficult to shift from 1st to 2nd like it "pops" into second but no grinding. After years of use and abuse the clutch went at 60K miles. I put in an ACT clutch (stage 1 street) and love the torque holding.
But now the car wants to grind and "pop" into gear from 1-2 2-3 3-4 4-5 and even when I downshift. It tends only to grind when I'm moving (shifts fine at a stop most of the time, occasional even at a stop it may grind when shifting into 1st to go....I used to use neutral alot....now when rolling to a stop I leave it in 1st and keep the clutch down, that way I know I have 1st gear for take off right away and don't get weird looks when the light is green and I grind. This is so embarrasing.
I adjusted the clutch cable to spec. (it was already very close...)
I'm just thinking it's only got from 60k-76k on this clutch.
Could it be a throw-out bearing? if it 
The "pop" into gear I described is like when I shift it feels like it's catching on something and then slips or grinds into gear depending on how it feels that day. Sometimes I almost have to push it past this catching feeling and force it into gear in which case it usually grinds. I hate to have the tranny ripped open after getting a clutch so recently but my guess is the guy that installed it may have no seated the bearing correctly.
I have no issues with the clutch slipping.
I dont hear any noise other than described above.
Should I just have a new tranny slapped on? (re-manufactured)
I hear the JWT flywheel on the GA16de helps reduce tranny shock/wear.
I may as weel get it if my tranny is out and the car is in the shop right?
If there are any issues with the clutch do you think ACT might help, considering it's only got 16k mi on it?
It still gets me to work, but I sure would like to run a decent time again.
This car has always had a tendency to make certain gears "unavailable' depending on engine speed (like a downshift is locked out from 3rd to 2nd until I slow sufficiently) this has always bugged me. Is this normal for sticks?
This is my first stick and no I didn't learn on it.
TY. in advance...... [email protected]


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## DanTheMan (Jan 12, 2003)

*Trans fluid on MT 1.6 1997 200sx*

Oh yeah, I also had totally synthetic tranny oil put in at 73k mi to see if it would help. The grinding is quiter but still there with same symptoms as above.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

DanTheMan said:


> This car has always had a tendency to make certain gears "unavailable' depending on engine speed (like a downshift is locked out from 3rd to 2nd until I slow sufficiently) this has always bugged me. Is this normal for sticks?
> This is my first stick and no I didn't learn on it.
> TY. in advance...... [email protected]


Do you rev match at all?

And what oil are you using in the transmission? When I had Royal Purple in my car it made shifting on cold days extremely difficult.


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## sfhellwig (Feb 4, 2003)

My tranny is getting tough to shift at 84,500 and no fluid change. I too notice from first to second it feels like it pops whereas from third to forth it falls into gear like nothing. Never thought of it as much of a problem. I also have to double clutch for any downshifting from third on down. It sure as hell won't go into first unless I double clutch or the car is going 3 mph or less. It is annoying at stop lights when I'm in a hurry as I have to come to a complete stop or I feel that I'm forcing it enough to cause synchro damage. I KNOW I need new fluid but that can't be your problem unless you went too heavy. In the GA16 Redline MT-90 is a good weight but Shodckproof can be a little too thick until it warms up. Beyond that I'm no good with trannys.


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## DanTheMan (Jan 12, 2003)

sfhellwig said:


> My tranny is getting tough to shift at 84,500 and no fluid change. I too notice from first to second it feels like it pops whereas from third to forth it falls into gear like nothing. Never thought of it as much of a problem. I also have to double clutch for any downshifting from third on down. It sure as hell won't go into first unless I double clutch or the car is going 3 mph or less. It is annoying at stop lights when I'm in a hurry as I have to come to a complete stop or I feel that I'm forcing it enough to cause synchro damage.
> 
> *****That has to be it!!!!!!!!
> I am a little inpatient and I think it got forced a few too many times.
> ...


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## sfhellwig (Feb 4, 2003)

Syncros damage is gear specific as each gear has its own. So damaging first gear should not affect the others. I believe it also shouldn't affect coming out of gear as the syncros are there to help it go into gear. However, I have no transmission experience and these ideas are from what I have read around here. 

I have recently "mended" my dogbone motormount because it was pretty worn and I could feel the engine swaying alot. After that it feels like it goes into 2nd alot easier and maybe a little better downshifting to first, though I still have to double clutch that one. I have read of broken motor mounts allowing an engine to shift so much that it can actually put the shifter in the car in a different position. You may look at your torque mounts if they have never had any attention. Otherwise, if you don't double clutch, learn how. It will always lengthen the life of a tranny and its parts, even if nothing is wrong.

As for the AC, if its cooling then your AC clutch is working. When you come to a stop the compressor is only turning at idle rpms. When your driving its turning at whatever rpms your driving at. Therefore the AC has better potential when driving, in theory. You may have other problems but alas, I have little experience with ACs either.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

yeah bad mounts can cause shifting problems. try replacing the shift linkage bushing with the ES one. i have solid poly bushings in everything related to the movement of the engine and the shifter feels great!

for the reverse problem... if you ever take apart your transmission and watch how reverse works... man you'd understand why it's such a PITA to engage... just one little gear moved by a freaking little fork and cam...


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## ktx49 (Mar 15, 2004)

i have similar problems....

i almost always grind when shifting into reverse(1996 200SX SE Manual 5spd)....i just let the clutch up and depress it again and voila it usually slides into reverse with ease....
very odd, but i also experience this problem on a smaller scale when going from a complete stop in neutral into first gear. the car is completely stopped, the clutch is completely disengaged yet the stick does not move easily into first gear...although there is not a grinding sound/feel as there is when trying to engage reverse, it is still annoying and does not feel "healthy" for the car. it is not too stiff(i still can push it into 1st without feeling like i am breaking something), but it requires a noticeable amount of extra force and i do not want to continue damaging anything. 

i also noticed how hard it is to downshift into lower gears even at acceptable gear speeds(like how it feels very very rough to push my stick into 3rd gear at anything above 45mph)...so i basically have to wait to downshift into 3rd until i am below 45-40mph or else it feels like i am "tearing" something as i put it into gear....this is with the clutch pedal completely depressed/disengaged....why is this?!?!? 

i have also noticed if i am shifting slower and at low RPMS that sometimes going from first into second gear there is also increased resistance and almost a grindy feel...although i admit this does not happen very often, it still bothers me....this is very noticeable when the car is first started and cold but pretty much goes away after a few miles of driving. none the less, it is annoying!!

any answers for these problems?? the car drives fine once it is in gear as long as i dont have the AC running hehehe


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

THe clutch may not be completely disengaging when the pedal is to the floor. This may be due to the cable stretching. You can adjust the pedal height and withdrawal lever play. From the FSM:


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

ktx49 said:


> i also noticed how hard it is to downshift into lower gears even at acceptable gear speeds(like how it feels very very rough to push my stick into 3rd gear at anything above 45mph)...so i basically have to wait to downshift into 3rd until i am below 45-40mph or else it feels like i am "tearing" something as i put it into gear....this is with the clutch pedal completely depressed/disengaged....why is this?!?!?
> 
> i have also noticed if i am shifting slower and at low RPMS that sometimes going from first into second gear there is also increased resistance and almost a grindy feel...although i admit this does not happen very often, it still bothers me....this is very noticeable when the car is first started and cold but pretty much goes away after a few miles of driving. none the less, it is annoying!!


I'm going to ask you too: Do you rev match at all when you downshift?


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## ktx49 (Mar 15, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> I'm going to ask you too: Do you rev match at all when you downshift?


not really...but i am not talking about slamming the car from 5th gear @ 100mph into 3rd gear....i am talking very moderate like 40-55mph and putting it into 3rd gear just to slow the car down some not for crazy ass turns/driving...just to save a little on my braking.

thanks though! So is it really necessary to rev match in this situation??...and what would this have to do with a rough feeling i get when trying to put the car into 3rd from neutral with my clutch completely disengaged?!? i am by no means a car mechanic, but from what i understand, there should be no problem getting it into gear so long as my clutch is not engaged.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

ktx49 said:


> not really...but i am not talking about slamming the car from 5th gear @ 100mph into 3rd gear....i am talking very moderate like 40-55mph and putting it into 3rd gear just to slow the car down some not for crazy ass turns/driving...just to save a little on my braking.
> 
> thanks though! So is it really necessary to rev match in this situation??...and what would this have to do with a rough feeling i get when trying to put the car into 3rd from neutral with my clutch completely disengaged?!? i am by no means a car mechanic, but from what i understand, there should be no problem getting it into gear so long as my clutch is not engaged.


Just to clarify for other people, what I mean by rev matching is the act of revving the engine to the proper speed _before _ putting the shift lever into that gear. A lot of people seem to think that if you push the gear lever into the gate, then rev the engine to match the wheels' speed, it will work fine. That isn't the case with our cars.

To answer your questions, yes this will cause that "rough" feeling when shifting into certain gears (namely 1st), and yes, it is necessary to do this at all speeds and in all gears. This is due to the fact that our cars are equipped with baulk-ring synchromeshes, which are durable but rather strict in terms of when they will accept a gear shift (on a side note, the transmission in the SR20 has less give in the rings than the GA16's transmission, which means you will have a slightly easier time with the GA). Disengaging the clutch won't help, because the clutch only separates the transmission from the engine, not the individual gears inside the transmission from eachother. When you disengage the clutch, all of the gears are still moving at different speeds. Because of the nature of synchromeshes, you can "force" shifts to some degree, but it will cause lots of wear on the transmission.

The best way to get around this is to learn how to really drive a manual transmission (being able to really drive a manual transmission is quite different from just being able to shift between the gears and not stall). Specifically, you should try to get yourself in the habit of blipping the throttle once before you move the shift lever into a certain gear, then at the same time (for starters, nearly the same time) engage the clutch so it smoothly goes into that gear. This goes for all downshifts and shifts from rolling neutral to a forward gear. That will increase the speed of your shifts while decreasing the wear on all transmission components.

PS: This is also good practice for you if at any point in the future decide you want to drive a synchroless (mostly likely a dog ring) transmission. The above method is the only way that will allow you to downshift in a synchroless transmission while using the clutch.


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## ktx49 (Mar 15, 2004)

ah ok i understand what you are saying...i never knew that...!!! guess ya learn something knew everyday....well i always do this when shifting up into gears after being in neutral or if i am shifting slowly while going through the gears but i did not know this had any application when downshifting. so next time i go to downshift into 3rd @ 45mph i will just leave my foot on the gas a little so i rev till about 3000rpm maybe a little more....ill see if it still is rough to get it into 3rd.

thanks for the info again man!


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

ktx49 said:


> ah ok i understand what you are saying...i never knew that...!!! guess ya learn something knew everyday....well i always do this when shifting up into gears after being in neutral or if i am shifting slowly while going through the gears but i did not know this had any application when downshifting. so next time i go to downshift into 3rd @ 45mph i will just leave my foot on the gas a little so i rev till about 3000rpm maybe a little more....ill see if it still is rough to get it into 3rd.
> 
> thanks for the info again man!


If you want to know exactly how much you need to rev or where you need to be, take a look at this chart generator at car-videos.com. I've already inputted the values for a GA powered 200sx. All you need to do is change the tyre size and you should be able to calculate the chart for your car (if you have a GA16DE powered B14 that is).

As you probably already know, using this chart is simply a matter of finding the point where you want to shift from a certain gear, looking at the speed in mph, then finding that speed in the gear you want to be in. That way you'll know exactly where you need to shift and where to put the shift lever into the next gear at any speed (So if you look at the chart, you'll see that you have to rev the engine to 3500 to downshift into 3rd at 45mph).

Good luck!


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