# 1997 Frontier not starting



## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

I have a weird problem with my mother's Frontier.

She was on the way to my house sunday and about a mile from my house she said it just died. She coasted to the side of the road and I came and drug it home.

It will crank and it is getting fire but won't start.

I've checked all the fuses in the fuse box. Under the hood I've swapped relays to see if something was wrong w/ one of them (swapped with others that were the same relay) I also did so w/ the 3 that were the same in the fuse box.

Nothing seems to fix it.

I removed the air cleaner and dumped a tiny bit of gas in it and it still wouldn't even start, just crank like I had added no gas.

Any suggestions


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## SPEEDO (Jun 9, 2003)

is this a hb or a frontier? (97=hb, 98=frontier) 4cyl? any codes? loose connections, burnt fusible links?


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

It's the hardbody style, but labeled as a frontier so that's why I posted here.

4 cylinder automatic... it's had a service engine code for a while (forgot what it was) but it's ran and drove fine. I don't see any loose connections, and haven't checked the fusible link. 

I've never had a vehicle with spark and fuel atleast not TRY to run.


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

Pop the distributor cap (note where #1 spark plug wire plugs into the cap itself), rotate the engine by hand until the timing marks are lined up with the marks on the pulley, and see if the distributor rotor is pointing at that #1 spark plug wire. If it's pointing at that plug wire (or the one halfway around from it), you can be _relatively_ sure that the timing chain/belt didn't jump, but you might still need to check if it might've jumped maybe one or two teeth.
Then do a compression check...or do the compression check first. Your call...


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## azrocketman (Oct 5, 2005)

"Why do people continue to run a vehicle when a warning light comes on, or worse, starts flashing? Isn't that a clue that something is wrong and you probably should NOT drive it?
Is this whole car driving thing really freekin' brain surgery? Are people that stupid?"

You mean like the seat belt light? In case you were not aware, nothing is wrong with the vehicle when this light illuminates and flashes. Go ahead, Google it.

JDG, the arrogance of this signature does not belong in this forum. Folks are looking for advice to fix their cars, not a diatribe on how to fix their life. Do you offer similar advice to a smoker with a hacking cough?

Now, andysutt, to the problem at hand:

An engine needs 5 things to operate: ignition, fuel, compression, timing, and rotation. You say it will crank so that eliminates rotation. I do not know how you verified ignition; I'm assuming you disconnected a plug wire and verified a strong blue spark jumping from the wire to the plug. If you did not, how did you verify ignition? The fact that the engine did not fire when you put gas in the throttle body suggests that it is not a fuel problem. This leaves timing and compression (which are also related). The simplest check is to verify that the distributor rotor rotates by cranking the engine with the cap removed. If not, the timing chain (I'm assuming a '97 uses a chain) may be toast. If the distributor rotates you need to run #1 cylinder up to Top Dead Center (line up the timing marks) and verify it points at the #1 distributor spark plug tower. If it does not, then the timing chain may have jumped teeth.

How many miles are on the truck? I'd be surprised if it was a timing chain problem if you are under 150,000 miles. 

The service engine code is important because the code typically identifies a malfunction in the engine control system. Usually, if a malfunction is detected the engine control system will revert to a backup mode of operation. Some backup modes are noticable by a lack of power or otherwise poor operation. Other backup modes are transparent in their operation; only the check engine light suggests their use. It is possible that the truck has been running in a backup mode for some time and now something in that mode has failed. The code(s) can still be recoverd with a scanner even if the engine does not operate.

Let us know what you find.

Steve


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

If you're sure you have spark and it didn't start when you poured gas into it, I would remove the spark plugs and make sure they are not fouled and, if not, do a compression test. My thinking is that the chain may have jumped.


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

azrocketman said:


> JDG, the arrogance of this signature does not belong in this forum. Folks are looking for advice to fix their cars, not a diatribe on how to fix their life. Do you offer similar advice to a smoker with a hacking cough?


Speaking of diatribes...
And I don't offer similar advice to a smoker with a hacking cough.
Step outside and play a one handed game of hide and go f#^@$#^$^k yourself when you get a chance.
And get some thicker skin while you're at it...



> The simplest check is to verify that the distributor rotor rotates by cranking the engine with the cap removed. If not, the timing chain (I'm assuming a '97 uses a chain) may be toast. If the distributor rotates you need to run #1 cylinder up to Top Dead Center (line up the timing marks) and verify it points at the #1 distributor spark plug tower. If it does not, then the timing chain may have jumped teeth.


Didn't somebody already mention that?



> How many miles are on the truck? I'd be surprised if it was a timing chain problem if you are under 150,000 miles.


So would I, but it's a relative piece of cake to rule it out.


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

I'll check the cap/rotor alignment tomorrow.

I did get spark by removing the #1 plug and seeing that it had a spark. 

I'd rather you guys not get in a pissing contest, and if you prefer to do so, do it elsewhere. I came here for help on a problem I can't fix not to catch crap from anyone (and I usually don't come to forums for help as I don't need the help) 

I'll have to check on the mileage, but I think it's under 150k


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

It's not really a fair pissing contest...'cause I'm the bigger pr1ck. 

In the first post you said that you dumped a tiny bit of gas down the throat.
Did you try a decent amount (vs a tiny bit) of gas for the heck of it? Or any sort of starting fluid? Seems to me that putting a tiny bit of gas in the air filter area isn't going to get much of anywhere and you might have to go a different route...
Worst halfway normal case, it backfires and you keep cranking to suck the flame back in it...


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

I dumped enough it should have started for sure.

Today I came home from work and cranked on it... i actually started to smell gas...

I checked spark again since it was dark and easier to see, and it was a sharp white/blue color.

When it gets light I will check on the timing issue


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## SPEEDO (Jun 9, 2003)

I would try to pull any codes first, probably will same you some time/frustration


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## azrocketman (Oct 5, 2005)

jdg said:


> It's not really a fair pissing contest...'cause I'm the bigger pr1ck.


Agreed, and it's not a virtue for someone seeking technical help. 

Steve


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

Ok so today I did the following:

Removed the rubber fuel lines from the fuel rail. turned key on... squirted fuel everywhere. So the pump is working (may not be correct pressure but does work)

I pulled it TDC and removed distributor cap... rotor is pointing to #1.

It is getting spark as well, but not as bright as I thought originally.

I tried more gas in the intake, but got to looking at it and I think it's just going to pool up in the intake as it isn't a direct straight path (goes down then curves back up)

How do you go about pulling codes on this? I remember someone telling me to remove the passenger seat, and there is a box there that you turn a screw 1/4 of a turn and it flashes on the dash


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

Rather than dumping gas into the intake, just spray some carb cleaner; it's easier and less volatile than starting fluid. Are you sure the spark plugs aren't fouled? For code retrieval, checkout this link:

http://www.troublecodes.net/Nissan/


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

I'm going to replace the plugs in the morning to make double sure. Thanks for the link


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## azrocketman (Oct 5, 2005)

andysutt said:


> Ok so today I did the following:
> 
> Removed the rubber fuel lines from the fuel rail. turned key on... squirted fuel everywhere. So the pump is working (may not be correct pressure but does work)
> 
> ...


The OBD II system installed on 1996 and later vehicles will require a code scanner to retrieve the malfunction codes. There is no easy jumper/screwdriver solution for OBD II systems like there was to read OBD I codes. You'll need to buy ($35.00 and up) or borrow an OBD II code scanner. I'm not sure, but some auto parts stores may have them for rent/loan.

Steve


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

Not sure where you got that information, but it's not correct.

The codes on this truck have been checked before w/o a scanner, and I've found articles on how to do so as well for this specific truck.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

azrocketman said:


> The OBD II system installed on 1996 and later vehicles will require a code scanner to retrieve the malfunction codes. There is no easy jumper/screwdriver solution for OBD II systems like there was to read OBD I codes. You'll need to buy ($35.00 and up) or borrow an OBD II code scanner. I'm not sure, but some auto parts stores may have them for rent/loan.
> 
> Steve


Codes can be checked on this vehicle via the LED's and diagnostic screw on the ECM under the passenger seat.

Nissan Trouble Code Info 
ENTERING SELF-DIAGNOSTICS

Using (MIL)
88–94

Turn ignition On. 
On all models except Pathfinder, Pickup and Van, proceed as follows: 
Turn diagnostic mode selector on ECU fully clockwise and wait until inspection lamps flash. Number of flashes displayed indicates corresponding mode. 
Note number of flashes, then immediately turn diagnostic mode selector fully counterclockwise. 
3. On Pathfinder, Pickup and Van models, proceed as follows: 
Turn diagnostic mode selector on ECU to On position and wait until inspection lamps flash. 
Note number of flashes, then immediately turn diagnostic mode selector to Off position. 
On all models, when ignition is turned Off during diagnosis, in each mode, and then turned back On again after power to the ECU has dropped off completely, diagnosis will automatically return to Mode I. 
For description of modes, proceed as follows: 
Mode I (Mixture ratio feedback control monitor A): during a closed loop condition, the green inspection lamp turns on when lean condition is present and goes off when a rich condition is present. During an open loop condition, the green inspection lamp stays off. 
Mode II (Mixture ratio feedback control monitor B): during a closed loop condition, the red inspection lamp turns on and off simultaneously with the green inspection lamp when mixture ratio is controlled within a predetermined value. During an open loop condition, the red inspection lamp stays off. The green inspection lamp function is the same as in Mode I. 
Mode III (Self diagnosis): in this mode the DTC is indicated by both the red and greed inspection lamp. The red inspection lamp corresponds to units of 10; the green inspection lamp corresponds to units of one. 
Mode IV (Switches on/off diagnosis): during this mode, the inspection lamps monitor switch on/off condition of the throttle valve switch, starter switch and vehicle speed sensor. 
Mode V (Real time diagnosis): if a malfunction is present during a driving test, the inspection lamps will display the malfunction condition immediately. 
READING DIAGNOSTIC CODES 

The Electronic Control Unit (ECU) monitors several engine sensors and actuators. If a problem occurs the information is stored in the ECU's memory for retrieval.
The codes are displayed by the red diode on the ECU. The codes are interpreted by the number of times and duration the diode flashes.
The red diode will flash for 0.6 of a second with 0.6 of a second delay between flashes "X" number of times, this will represent units of ten.
Then there will be a delay 0.9 of a second and the red diode will flash for 0.3 of a second with 0.3 of a second delay between flashes "X" number of times, this will represent units of one.
There will be a delay of 2.1 seconds between codes.
For example, if the red diode flashes once and then flashes twice rapidly this should be interpreted as code 12. The codes are displayed in numerical order starting with the lowest and ending with the highest. 
95–99

Turn ignition On. 
Turn diagnostic mode selector on ECU fully clockwise and wait until inspection lamps flash. Number of flashes displayed indicates corresponding mode. 
Note number of flashes, then immediately turn diagnostic mode selector fully counterclockwise. 
If ignition is turned Off during diagnosis, in each mode, and then turned back on again after power to the ECU has dropped off completely, diagnosis will automatically return to Mode I. 
For description of modes, proceed as follows: 
(Mode I): with engine stopped, system in bulb check state. with engine running, system in malfunction warning state. 
(Mode II): with engine stopped, system in self diagnostic results state. with engine running, system in front O2S monitor state. 
Using Consult
Turn ignition Off. 
Connect ‘‘Consult’’ the data link connector (DLC), located behind fuse box cover. 
Turn ignition On. 
Touch ‘‘Start.’’ 
Touch ‘‘Engine.’’ 
Perform each diagnostic test mode according to each service procedure. 
Using Generic Scan Tool 
Turn ignition Off. 
Connect scan tool’ to its 16-pin DLC, located at lower edge of instrument panel near steering column. 
Turn ignition On. 
Enter program according to screen instructions or in operation manual. 
Perform each diagnostic test mode according to each service procedure. 
Clearing Trouble Codes
On pre-95 models, MIL stored memory will be erased after selecting Mode III or Mode IV. 
On 95–99 models, MIL stored memory will be erased by switching from Mode II to Mode I. 
On all models, MIL stored memory will be erased if battery terminal is disconnected. 
On 95–97 models, to erase DTCs using Consult, select ERASE in the SELF DIAG RESULTS mode. 
On 98–99 models, to erase DTCs using Consult, turn Consult On, select A/T, SELF DIAG RESULTS and ERASE. Select BACK, ENGINE, SELF DIAG RESULTS and ERASE. 
On all models, to erase DTCs using generic scan tool (GST), select mode 4. 
Nissan UD Diesel
ID-TICS System

Place diagnostic switch in the Off position. 
Carry out diagnosis under the following three conditions: 
Place ignition switch in the On position. 
Crank engine. 
Start and operate engine. 
The trouble codes will be displayed by the flashing Engine Control Lamp and the Overheat Warning Lamp and the Overheat Warning Buzzer. 
Trouble Code Interpretation
MID-TICS System

The diagnostic trouble codes will be displayed by the check engine lamp. For example, a code 12 will be displayed by the check engine lamp flashing 1 time for approximately 1.2 seconds, followed by a .6 second pause, then 2 short flashes. Each trouble code will be displayed 3 times before the next trouble code is displayed. 
Clearing Trouble Codes
88-94



Turn the ignition key on. 
Turn the diagnostic mode selector on the ECU fully clockwise and wait more than two seconds then turn the selector fully counterclockwise. The ECCS system is now in mode 2. 
Turn the diagnostic mode selector on the ECU fully clockwise and wait more than two seconds then turn the selector fully counterclockwise. The ECCS system is now in mode 1. ECU memory is now erased. 
MID-TICS System

Release diagnostic switch. 
Place ignition switch in On position. 
Check that Overheat Warning Lamp is displaying Diagnostic Display Code. 
Connect memory clear connector 2400400Z09, or a suitable jumper wire to reset switch terminals. The reset switch is located behind the electrical unit board. 
Check that Overheat Warning Lamp and Buzzer display shows Diagnostic Display Code 0–1. The System memory will be cleared in approximately 10 seconds. 
Remove connector or jumper wire from reset switch electrical connector. 
Connect electrical connector to reset switch. 
Place ignition switch in Off position. 
Place ignition switch in On position, then check Overheat Warning Lamp and Buzzer. Diagnostic Display Code 0–1 should be indicated. 
Trouble Code Info
Pre-88 Nissan 
88–94 & 95 Pathfinder, Quest, Truck & 300ZX 
95 Altima, Maxima, Sentra, 200SX, 240SX & 96–00 All

MID-TICS System (Diesel)


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

Upon reading that... I'm still slightly confused... It says to turn the switch and the # of flashes shows you what mode it's in. Does it show the mode and then then flash the trouble codes?


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

Both red and green lights flash simultaneously to indicate the mode. Red and green LEDs flash seperately when they are flashing codes (red= tens, green=ones, ie 1 red flash and 2 green flashes for code "12"). So, yes, it will flash the mode that it is in and then follow with the codes stored in that particular mode.


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

Ok... I think its fuel pump.

I was torn between regulator and the fuel pump itself.

I pulled the return line off the FPR and cranked it over.. no gas coming out with or w/o the vacume line attached. This tells me the fuel pump isn't creating enough pressure to open the FPR... Anybody else agree with me?

3 local guys say so, but I want to check here as well.

On a side note, I'll be getting a fuel pressure gauge to check it, just don't have one and local parts stores don't rent them so I'll just be buying one


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

Even if the fuel pump isn't working, it should still start up by dumping gas or spraying carb cleaner into the engine.


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

I need to get around to pulling these codes... just been lazy and the weather has been crap.

I did replace the plugs and that didn't do anything.


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

I just went and pulled the passenger seat out, and turned the ignition on, and turned the knob to diagnosis... nothing happens?

The know shows idle speed and if turned full clockwise its in "diagnostic" mode

Is this the wrong box or is something else wrong?


It's not behind the passenger side kickpanel like I've read about it being


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

I got it to flash the CEL finally... it only flashes a code 55 which I see is a "no malfunction" so I dont know what the heck is going on


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

Have you tried the carb cleaner yet? Like said earlier, should at least be able to get it to pop-off a few times on that...assuming you've got good spark and at the right time.
And did you see the fuel pump relay when you were in there earlier? If so, did the top (or side) or the relay have a small wiring diagram on it?


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

I thought I had some carb cleaner, but I was wrong. I'll pick some up on the way home from work tomorrow and try that.

As for the relay, I dont remember if it had the diagram on it or not, but I do know the part # was the same as other relays on the truck, so I swapped them out to try another one as well. The relay was good in both cases


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## andysutt (Apr 7, 2010)

Anyone know what the fuel PSI is supposed to be?


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