# Darn X-Trail Starting to act up again.



## Thorongil (Mar 18, 2005)

Well, I dropped my X-t at the dealer this morning after calling the service manager and telling him our X trail took 10 minutes to start in the Shoppers Drug Mart parking lot yesterday.
This is a wierd problem.....the truck did the same thing about 2 months ago and it just wouldn't start. That time we called the dealer and they said to call the roadside assistance people. They came out and the guy tried it and tried it....then he hooked up booster cables just for the hell oif it I guess and the truck eventually started.
The thing is, I just kept trying it yesterday and it started after about 8 tries.

The trick has been doing this sionce the first week we owned it. It happens like once every 2 months it seems. Not a lot, but too much for me just the same. It should not be doing that.

Anyway the service manager said they have to find something and said they may keep the truck for a few days. They already put a new starter in it about 8 months ago or so. It seemed to 'go away for 2 or 3 months after that. What are the chances of getting 2 bad starters in a row??????
I hop ethey find out what is causing this.....we are approaching 40,000 km and the warranty is up at 60,000km.... I mentioned this to him and he said they will take care of it....

Anyone else ever hear of this????

It kind of sounds like the starter is not catching or something.....lots of turn over power...it doesn't sound like its the battery...besides they checked it last time and the batt was fine....

DAmnnnmnmnmnmn!


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

> It kind of sounds like the starter is not catching or something.....lots of turn over power...it doesn't sound like its the battery...besides they checked it last time and the batt was fine....


This statement is a little confusing. Does the engine itself actually not "turn over" or crank? What I mean is, is the starter spinning and the engine isn't turning, 'cause then I would think possibly another bad starter or at least starter parts.

What do you mean by "lots of turn over power"? If the engine itself is actually turning over, then the problem is not with the starter - - it's either fuel or spark.

I had a similar intermitent problem with my '92 pathfinder and it turned out to be the connections to the fuel pump. But being a 2005 model, I woudl expect this wouldn't be the case for you.

Just giving you a few ideas to talk to your dealer about. These types of intermitent problems can be extremely frustrating. Keep smiling


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## Rockford (Jan 28, 2005)

Is it weather-dependant at all? Worse when it's damp for example?
If you can help the dealer narrow down when it happens and when it doesn't that should help them.
If there seemingly is no pattern, it may be tougher for them to diagnose. 
And not to sound glass-half-emptyish, but I'd document and keeps records of all this. Like you say, all you need to to discover at 60,001 kms that the promlem's still there. I know you said they said they'd "take care of it" and I doubt it'll come to that but still.


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## Lukasz (Oct 14, 2004)

Thorongil, I have the exact same problem, and am convinced it is the starter. With me, the issue does not seem to be dependent on the weather, and occurs at random. I can go without it happening for months, and at the same time, it can happen the nexdt day.
Just recently, I managed to convince my dealer to order me a new starter, and hope the issue will go away. What makes me think it is the starter is the fact that there are only two leads going into the starter. This engages both the actuator and the starter (the actuator pops out the gear so that the engine cranks, then retracts the starter gear once the engine is started). With my car, the starter turns, and sometimes clicks as though the gear cannot catch on, but the engine does not crank.
Let me know how u end up dealing with the issue, and I will do the same for you.

Cheers,
Lukasz


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## Thorongil (Mar 18, 2005)

I just got off the phone with the dealer....they took apart the starter and associated area parts and found the sprocket or gear in the starter that turn the flywheel (on the trans??) where hitting together or hitting in such a fashion that they shouldn't be.
Anyway, I am not a mechanic but I clearly asked him if there was evidence of this and he said yes - there is wear in the teeth of these components indicating a mechanical failure and wear.

So anyway they have ordered me a new starter and flywheel and said that should take care of the problem. They really couldn't say what caused it. It the only Xtrail they have seen with the problem this severe. Apparently a maxima had a similar issue last year but a new starter seems to have fixed that prob....


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## Lukasz (Oct 14, 2004)

Thorongil said:


> I just got off the phone with the dealer....they took apart the starter and associated area parts and found the sprocket or gear in the starter that turn the flywheel (on the trans??) where hitting together or hitting in such a fashion that they shouldn't be.
> Anyway, I am not a mechanic but I clearly asked him if there was evidence of this and he said yes - there is wear in the teeth of these components indicating a mechanical failure and wear.
> 
> So anyway they have ordered me a new starter and flywheel and said that should take care of the problem. They really couldn't say what caused it. It the only Xtrail they have seen with the problem this severe. Apparently a maxima had a similar issue last year but a new starter seems to have fixed that prob....


Thank,
That's great info. When the starter comes in, I will have them make sure that the flywheel is still OK. Did the dealer mention the possibility of it being the actuator not working properly? My dealer didn't even want to take the starter off. I was more successful than at persuading them to replace the starter than anything else.

Lukasz


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## Thorongil (Mar 18, 2005)

No he didn't mention the actuator....


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## Lukasz (Oct 14, 2004)

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I just wanted to update the situation. 
I eventually did get the starter replaced (in February), but the problem eventually resurfaced. I visited the dealer again a few times after that and eventually gave up becuase I no longer had the time to visit.
Recently the issue started re-occuring, and I noticed that when I had the problem I could change the gear from Park to Reverse (auto tranny), and then back to Park. At this point, the car would start normally.
After doing some digging and looking at the ESM, i finally figured out what the problem is-the Parking/Neutral Position switch (it senses which position the transmission is in) send out the wrong info, because the transmission cable does not always allow the transmission to go completely into the park position.
I can now reproduce the problem by moving the PNP switch with my hand before starting.
I just set up a service appointment to have the PNP switch inspected and the cable adjusted, and I'm very confident this will resolve the issue.

Just figured I'd let you all know just in case you come across something similar.

Cheers
Lukasz


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## Rockford (Jan 28, 2005)

Isn't this something a dealer diagnostic should pick up on fairly quickly?
That's pretty bad that you were able to diagnose it but they were not.
Good that it appears to be resolved since that's the main thing but still.


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## Lukasz (Oct 14, 2004)

No, it's nothing something that would have appeared when using the consult tool, unless it was on the rare occassion that it actually got stuck in the mid-switch position. I could never get it to do that when at the dealer. When I had it towed, the problem fixed itself as soon as the car was put into neutral, so when it got to the dealer they didn't see it.
It was possible for them to diagnose it if they had put enough effort into researching it within the ESM, since it's a problem quite clearly defined within.


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## Thorongil (Mar 18, 2005)

So did you mention the starter/flywhell gear thing????





Lukasz said:


> Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I just wanted to update the situation.
> I eventually did get the starter replaced (in February), but the problem eventually resurfaced. I visited the dealer again a few times after that and eventually gave up becuase I no longer had the time to visit.
> Recently the issue started re-occuring, and I noticed that when I had the problem I could change the gear from Park to Reverse (auto tranny), and then back to Park. At this point, the car would start normally.
> After doing some digging and looking at the ESM, i finally figured out what the problem is-the Parking/Neutral Position switch (it senses which position the transmission is in) send out the wrong info, because the transmission cable does not always allow the transmission to go completely into the park position.
> ...


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## Lukasz (Oct 14, 2004)

Yes, I did mention the starter/flywheel issue, they said it's not a problem. Anyhow, i figure that when they replaced the starter, they would have noticed it being setup wrong. I mean, what are the chances of them getting it adjusted the wrong way for a second time?
I'm just looking forward to next tuesday, so I can finally get them to readjust the cable/switch.

Cheers
Lukasz


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## MadKanu (Sep 15, 2006)

So Lukasz, did it work? My X-Trail has been having the exact same problem for at least the past year. It's actually at the dealership right now where it's been all week. I just left a voicemail with the service department to pass on your suggestion about the PNP switch. I'll have to wait until Monday to hear back from them.


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## Lukasz (Oct 14, 2004)

I actually have the appointment for next week (Thursday). I want to be there when they're looking at it, so this time they can finally get it right, so i needed to pick a time slot that's wide open in my schedule. I'll update as soon as there is something to update on. In the meantime, I would really want to hear how your repair went.
Cheers


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## Lukasz (Oct 14, 2004)

Just an update.
I had the service done on the car...it all ended up being the transmission control cable being loose. Now that it has been tightened, the control arm connected to the cable no longer has any slack, and cannot get into the position that was originally causing the problem.
All is well.

Cheers


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## MadKanu (Sep 15, 2006)

I just got mine back yesterday. Sounds like mine was pretty much the same problem with a slight variation. The shop foreman said there was corrosion on the shifter cable where it meets the transmission. The vehicle would shift into park but the arm didn't move just that extra little bit it needed to to fully activate the PN safety switch. He said he was able to replicate the problem and has cleaned it all up and greased it so it won't happen again. We'll see what happens. Could be the corrosion was just a side benefit and what it really needed was the tightening like yours.

Thanks Lukasz for the tip. If this is fixed it marks the end of a year and a half long odessey. Apparently Nissan techline is now aware of the issue so hopefully will be a much shorter repair for others in the future.


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## Lukasz (Oct 14, 2004)

I'm glad it worked out for you. I've had this issue since I got the car new (May 2004). 
No-one has even bothered suggesting it might be soemthing with the transmission, and I would have never assumed it to be until I realized that there is this safety mechanism. Anyhow, at least this is the end of me having to get the car towed, then starting normally at the dealership and them loooking at me like an idiot.
It's been the only problem I ever had with the car, and now it's perfect 

BTW, do you know since when Techline has known about the problem? 
Cheers

Lukasz


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## MadKanu (Sep 15, 2006)

If I take what the Dealership said at face value they never heard of it when they called mid last week but they did when they called on Monday of this week.


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## Thorongil (Mar 18, 2005)

Hmmm...this is very strange.
Meaning they didn't mention or diagnose that on my Xtrail at all....yet we all sound like we have similar if not the exact smae problems.

Only think was there was evidence of wear and mechanical failure on my flywheel.actuator thing.

Too bad we couldn't get a nissan tech on here to comment on this.


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## Thorongil (Mar 18, 2005)

Mine is doing it again.....
I called the dealer and talked to the service manager. He said almost the same thing as you that it has something to do with this cable or switch and ordered me a new one. I expressed some concern that this problem seems to be ongoing and my Warranty is almost up. He said the dealer would go good for this particular problem if it came up again.

Hopefully this wiil fix it permanently.

Have any of you had this cable or switch replaced and had any recurring problems.


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## MadKanu (Sep 15, 2006)

Mine hasn't had the problem again since the adjustment (knock on wood). In my case they didn't change any parts (except for the starter done months before which didn't correct the problem). They just cleaned up and tightened the cable then greased it to prevent further corrosion. If you're getting a new switch out of the deal that couldn't hurt assuming they readjust everything after installation anyways.

I haven't actually seen what this linkage looks like but I imagine he should be able to recreate the problem by having one guy pull back a bit on the arm so it can't fully close the PN-switch while another guy tries to start it.


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## Lukasz (Oct 14, 2004)

Same with me. After the adjustment, everything was ok. All they did is just take out the slack in the control cable. As for recreating the problem, I had enough slack that I was able to recreate the problem by simply pulling the cable to one side (in front and under the engine, where it connects to the transmission) and then trying to start. 
The issue with mine was due only to the slack in the line, nothing to do with corrosion, and I don't see how the problem will/can resurface unless the cable is somehow loosened (but i can see that as being possibly accomplished by jerking the transmission out of park when parked on a hill--this exerts a lot of force on the cable).
As for the warranty...as long as the issue has been logged, Nissan should honor the warranty for a reasonable ammount of time after the warranty's expiry...if the issue persists.

Thorongil:
I would suggest that before replacing the switch...they make sure that the transmission control cable has enough tension on it...it's better than replacing the switch (which might be perfectly fine) with one that might be defective (despite being new)...
No point in introducing new variables unnecessarily.

Cheers
Lukasz


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