# GA16DE in place of GA16i



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Hi Guys, some of you might remember a thread I started on B15Sentra.net several months ago. It described the start of my GA16DE swap into my '89 B12 4WD wagon. There were quite a few technical details in it, and it described getting the engine into the chassis. It's at: http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24244. Anyway, after being put on hold for a while, I got back working on it a few weeks ago, and got it done. I had the engine and trans bolted in back then, and needed to finish the wiring. After installing all of the B13's EFI harnesses and ECU, it was time to finish connecting the rest of the ECU's wiring to the B12's electrical system. I have seen many threads on this subject, but no one ever really describes exactly what wire goes where. Now I know why. This is neither simple or quick. It can be done, but it is time consuming and you need to have a good understanding of electrical systems in general. Oh, and in my opinion, a factory service manual for both the B12 and the B13 donor car are a must. I slowly turned the key, and heard the fuel pump do it's five second cycle. Turned it some more, and she started right up, and purred like a kitten. The engine had no idea that it was in a B12 chassis. Sweet!  I also got to hear for the first time, my custom 2" mandrel bent exhaust system that I scratch built, with a Dynomax UltraFlo muffler. I am shopping for a Sony digital camera next week, and will post pics and give more details. Gotta go take her for a road test, and find some gravel, so I can light up all four wheels!


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## 88NissanB12 (Nov 5, 2002)

Please do posts LOTS of pictures.


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## sentrastud (May 3, 2002)

Congrats on getting it all working! That must have taken quite some patience!

Post lotsa pics!

-Nick


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## dundee (May 11, 2002)

awesome job!

you need to turbo that sucker and hunt some wrx's!


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

please!! post some !! i need it ... my eyes arent just trusting wath theyre reading !! my brain is juicing by now !!


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

hummmmmmmm 4 wD !!... ... ya a hunt againt wrx would be nice !! hahahaha lol


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Crazy-Mart said:


> *hummmmmmmm 4WD !!... ... going hunting WRX's would be nice !! hahahaha lol *


 ***** Hey Marty, I am as excited as you are. Wait until I tell you guys the story of the rear Subaru LSD I put in it. It's an R160, with a 3.70 ratio, the same as the original Nissan diff. I had to have some machine work done to get the Nissan axles to fit in it. The Subaru's use a male splined stub shaft that comes out of the differential. I had to remove those stub shafts, and toss them. The Nissan axles tap into the diff, just like the front ones do, and use an internal C-clip to retain it. I had to completely disassemble the Subie diff, and machine that same C-clip groove into the Subaru's side spider gears. This was not easy, because the gears are hardened. But a carbide cutting tool got it done. Next I am going to try to fit a Phantom Grip LSD in the front differential. They make them for the RS5F31A five speed [for the B13 & B14's], and I'm hoping it will fit my trans too, because the B12's also use an RS5F31A five speed. I just put a set of the 14" factory Nissan aluminum SE wheels on it too, with some new rubber. Looks better now!


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

OMG !!... hey body you now got an awsome drifting machine there !! (well) 4WD lsd ?? shit !!... hope youll like the way its gonna drive cuz in curves youll be out balance by the lsd ??...

In the snow it must be awsome ! nice asskicker !!


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

I was reading an article on swapping an SR20DE into a GA16DE powered B13. It described how all of the wiring just plugged in. This is not too surprising, because the B13 could originally be had with the SR20DE from the factory. This made me reflect back on the intense amount of custom wiring I had to do, during the GA16DE swap in to my B12. it was much more work than the typical engine swap. Now I know what Hybrid DET and BoostBoy have known for quite some time.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

*It's Alive!*

Hi all, 
This is the GA16DE in it's new home. You can view more pics at: 
http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=blownb310


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

you're nuts.























Isnt it great?


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## sentrastud (May 3, 2002)

wow! that car looks really good! Keep goin on the project!

-Nick


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

OMG!... mike !! Your such an ACE !!...  hope to see it soon !!


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## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

great job blown. hey , and if u ever come across an sr20 u can just pretty much drop that sucker in. by the way. it looks like abrand new car.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

AVERAGE said:


> *great job blown. hey , and if u ever come across an sr20 u can just pretty much drop that sucker in. by the way. it looks like abrand new car. *


 ***** Gentlemen, thanks for the compliments!  AVERAGE, it would indeed, be easier to put in an SR20 at this point, because alot of the wiring would already be done. I have actually thought of that, but what to do for an SR20 4WD trans? I know of a guy from NYC, that has not one, but two SR20 4WD five speed trans/transfer case setups. They came with two SR20DET's he imported. He has no use for them, he only wanted the engines. I have considered the possibilities, but I am not ready to do something like that just yet. Hmm......maybe someday.


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

most of the FWD are actually AWD Sr20DET....  you would probably get one of those if you went throu an importer !! 

nice though : B12 4WD, SR20DET ... that would make an Sentra SSS ?? or a Sentra GTI-R


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2002)

Now if you could just do all that into a sedan body.. ;>


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## sentrastud (May 3, 2002)

UnaClocker said:


> *Now if you could just do all that into a sedan body.. ;> *


yeah...........  

-Nick


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

UnaClocker said:


> *Now if you could just do all that into a sedan body.. ;> *


 ***** I like the wagon though, because I can fit six extra studded tires in the back, along with a floor jack, and other gear. Then it's time to head out on the frozen lake!


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

Hey Blown, 

Sweet work man and I mean this from one wrencher to another. You have always had my respect not only for your knowledge, but for your compassion for others in need of your sound advice. keep up the excellent work! Just freakin' amazing...........


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

boost_boy said:


> *Hey Blown,
> 
> Sweet work man and I mean this from one wrencher to another. You have always had my respect not only for your knowledge, but for your compassion for others in need of your sound advice. keep up the excellent work! Just freakin' amazing........... *


 ***** Muchas Gracias BoostBoy!


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Crazy-Mart said:


> *OMG !!... hey buddy you've now got an awesome drifting machine there !! (well) 4WD lsd
> In the snow it must be awsome ! nice asskicker !!  *


 ***** You're not kidding. I just took advantage of all of the snow that has fallen here this week. Tonight, I mounted four studded Nokian winter tires, and headed out to my favorite snow covered twisty mountain roads. It was about midnight, so I had 
them all to myself. The car rips through the hairpins beautifully, with the ass end out and digging all the way. What a ton of fun!  I always wanted to pretend I was Colin McRae!


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## antdagreat (Nov 24, 2002)

will the GA16DE go in place of a E16i as easy as it goes in place of a GA16i? can the 4WD system be put on the FWD cars like mine?


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

antdagreat said:


> *will the GA16DE go in place of a E16i as easy as it goes in place of a GA16i? can the 4WD system be put on the FWD cars like mine? *


 ***** Not really, because then you'll need a trans too. The GA16i and the GA16DE share the same bell housing type. And no, the FWD cars all had different chassis layouts. There would be no room for the transfer case, rear drive shaft, or the IRS differential setup. The fuel tank would be in the way too.


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## antdagreat (Nov 24, 2002)

awww....that sucks about the 4WD oh well. is it pretty simple to swap the trans out cause i'm considering the swap?


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## sentrastud (May 3, 2002)

actually thats not entirely true. If you wanted 4WD you could fit that setup into somehting like this:










 

-Nick


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## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

lol i think most people are going for something a tad more on the subtle side there nick lol


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## sentrastud (May 3, 2002)

hahahaha, it was worth a shot  

-Nick


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

***** Wow, she hauls butt! Ran it at an ice time trial event this Saturday and scared some WRX's!!!


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2003)

Sweet! Awesome photo there. Congrats.


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

Nice to see the beast on is track !!


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2003)

All this talk about the GA16de being a drop in and having the same bell housing as my GA16i has got me thinking about a switch myself, the only thing that worries me is the trouble you had with the wiring harnesses.
Exactly how much trouble was the wiring swap over and what did you use to over come the issues at hand.....schematics of the electrical layout from Nissan??


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

sentrab12 said:


> *All this talk about the GA16de being a drop in and having the same bell housing as my GA16i has got me thinking about a switch myself, the only thing that worries me is the trouble you had with the wiring harnesses.
> Exactly how much trouble was the wiring swap over and what did you use to over come the issues at hand.....schematics of the electrical layout from Nissan?? *


 *****Yes, the wiring was tedius. I used Nissan shop manuals, for both the donor car ['93 B13 XE] and the '89 4WD B12 project car. Here are some pics of the custom 2" mandrel bent exhaust system that I fabricated from U and J bends. I ported the ex. manifold to get the outlet as close to 2" as I could. Then I bored out the stock front pipe to ex. manifold flange on a lathe, to fit the 2"" headpipe. You can also see the modified cast iron alternator bracket that I lightened up with a sawsall. The original bracket was much larger because it included the mount for the A/C compressor as well.


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

"Nothing that's worth having is going to come without some level of difficulty". Boost_boy 10:05


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2003)

I had actually given thought lately to possibly preparing an adapter of sorts by having the output harness lets say from the DE engine and the input harness on the 16i for any given accessory.., and run the wiring from point A to point B between the two harnesses for proper hookup and use this as an adapter when placing the DE in place....think it would work?? I'm thinking yes. or at least hoping yes, granted not all things are as easy as they sound on paper and it may not look quite as nice....but whatever gets the job done....correctly.
thanks


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

I actually did wire the car circuit by circuit, but I didn't make any adapter. I did connect quite a few of the input wires from the original ecu connector, to the DE's harness. It is far too complex a process, to try to describe on a message board though. Even I don't have that kind of time and patience.


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

> It is far too complex a process, to try to describe on a message board though. Even I don't have that kind of time and patience.


 I said the same thing in another thread, blown! These swaps are done more from desire and learned application with a twist of fate, rather than being orchestrated via a service manual.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

boost_boy said:


> *I said the same thing in another thread, blown! These swaps are done more from desire and learned application with a twist of fate, rather than being orchestrated via a service manual. *


 Very well said BoostBoy! :cheers:


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

we have a poet on board !!


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2003)

That's why you get the ENTIRE wiring harness from the car you're getting the motor from. My brother purchased the Toyota Levin GTZ wiring harness from a high school student in Japan for his motor swap, a JDM 4AGZE into his 1989 Toyota Corolla. It makes it much easier as we just had to take out some of the wiring that we didn't need and lengthen a few others as well as a couple of other things. Still not an afternoon job, but considerably easier than the wiring hell that Boost Boy and Blown310 probably went through. But we also had to convert from carburated to Fuel injection and automatic to 5 speed. Yipee! Research and understanding a wiring diagram as well as being able to use all the diagnostic equipment (Multimeters are a man's best friend in this case) is key.


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

On my first swap with the CA16DE, I was stuck for 3 months and all because a stinking ground wire got severed inside the engine's harness. Talk about someone who felt they had failed, "I actually cried" like a punk. I even had considered calling the junkyard to come and get the remains because it wouldn't start. So I got desperate and opened up the harness and found a wire cut I soldered it together and ran around to the driver's side to see if it will crank. It fired right up (1 rotation) and I never looked back:cheers:


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## nastynissan (Jan 26, 2003)

AWESOME JOB MAN!!!!!! thats something Ive wanted for YEARS.. Looks like a nice clean job.. 1 Question though, wouldnt it have been easier to swap the whole vehichle wiring harness and ECU instead of reworking it??? I had to do this when swapping a GA16i into an 87 E16s sentra. Along with Fuel tank and Pump. Just wondering............


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

> wouldnt it have been easier to swap the whole vehichle wiring harness and ECU instead of reworking it???


 That is exactly what I did! But keep in mind that the donor car was in a terrible accident that cracked the tranny case as well as crush the engine against the firewall hence the crushed wires. But even when doing a pulsar to sentra swap, there's so much reconfiguration and sorting around the dash because the pulsar and the sentra are not identical internally. It wasn't easy and I don't recommend anyone with no wiring experience to try it or you will be crying, too .


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Autocrossing the 4WD*

I had a great time autocrossing the car this weekend. With the AGX's and Hyperco Gen. 2 [B13] street/track springs, and the Bridgestone RE71's on B14 wheels, the thing handles incredibly well. Hey how about the creative "Sport Compact Car" magazine style picture I took on the way home?


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

Man blown, you always look like you're having fun in your car (that's the way it should be) . How did the car do? I never really understoof (fully) how autocrossing works, but it sounds cool.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

boost_boy said:


> *Man blown, you always look like you're having fun in your car (that's the way it should be) . How did the car do? I never really understoof (fully) how autocrossing works, but it sounds cool. *


 ***** Thanks Dee,
Autocrossing is something I am very new at. You ask how did the car do. The answer is great! But I didn't _drive_ the car as well as it could have been driven, so I took a 4th place. Basically, autocrossing is something done in a controlled area, like a parking lot. The course is laid out with traffic pylons. It is a twisty affair where car agility is needed. The cars are run solo, one at a time through the course with an electronic timing system recording your elapsed time. The object is to be the quickest through the course, and not hit any of the pylons. Additionally, you need to stay between the "gates" of pylons to stay on course. Missing a gate or driving on the wrong side of the pylons adds penalty time to your score. There is a certain amount of course memorizing involved, because the gates come up quickly and it's easy to make a mistake. It's something I do once every other year or so. Usually, I prefer much higher speed events myself.


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## yafayu (May 31, 2003)

To blownb310: 
Great Job!!! i have a 87 Pulsar with a E16i engine, i'm wondering how hard swap to a GA16DE? someone told me all i need is engine + trans + ECU and all the wiring. plus a right engine mount from a GA16i, is that it? do you have information about E16i --> GA16DE swap ?


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

yafayu said:


> *To blownb310:
> Great Job!!! i have a 87 Pulsar with a E16i engine, i'm wondering how hard swap to a GA16DE? someone told me all i need is engine + trans + ECU and all the wiring. plus a right engine mount from a GA16i, is that it? do you have information about E16i --> GA16DE swap ? *


 I've never done this swap with an E16 car. It certainly can be done, but it wouldn't be easy. If I had an '87 Pulsar, I'd go with a CA18DE. Same work, better result.


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## duckzilla (May 15, 2003)

ITS DA BOmb!!!! HOw can I get down??? My b12 needs more power!!! Thanx to all you guys for the tech support!! The trans runs great!!! 

Peace!!
Duck" Hittin the e-way" zilla


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

duckzilla said:


> *ITS DA BOmb!!!! HOw can I get down??? My b12 needs more power!!! Thanx to all you guys for the tech support!! The trans runs great!!!
> 
> Peace!!
> Duck" Hittin the e-way" zilla *


 ............huh?


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Winter fun with your B12!*

This may sound strange, but every year come late fall, I remove my plates and store my 4WD Sentra for the winter. I get a winter car each year to get eaten by salt instead.

I do however, take the car out once each winter for ice racing. I wait until we get a weekend with dry roads and trailer it out to the lake. Up until now, I have only run it at solo ice trial type events, but this year I decided to run it in the regular wheel to wheel road races on ice. I run every week with a club called the Adirondack Motor Enthusiast Club [A.M.E.C.] check out: www.icerace.com. I normally use my '93 SE-R in the "Street Legal" class, but this week I heard we were going to have a short [1.2 miles per lap] twisty course with little or no straightaway. Hmmm, I thought, this would be a great track for a 4WD car where you'll have grip to rocket out of the low speed corners. So, I got my '89 4WD B12 out of storage and swapped the four SE-R wheels and studded Gislaved Nordfrost tires onto the wagon. I had a set of Grassroots Motorsport number board stickers on the shelf, so I stuck them on and applied my number. I bolted in a mandatory fire extinguisher to get through tech and took the car out for the morning warmup laps. Being used to having SR20DE power each week, I wasn't sure the GA16DE equipped B12 was going to get the job done. But I was really surprised just how quick the car felt out there. 

So I start the first race gridded in the seventh position out of the field of 20 cars. Holy crap don't you know by the third lap I am in front and pulling away. I won the race quite easily. It was almost embarrasing to be so quick. In the second race I slowed down a bit and let them catch me. So it at least _looked_ close at the end. My biggest competition came from my good friend Phil's '92 NX2000. Even with the factory limited slip diff, his SR20DE was no match for the GA16DE equipped 4wd B12 on this day. Sometimes traction is all you need!


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

That must have been hilarious seeing an old ass wagon beating the crap out of everyone else! That's a pretty good idea putting the car away in the winter, salt sucks so many ballz. Hey, they only made the wagon with the 4WD option right? A 4WD 2-door sedan would be sooooo awesome!


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

Nice blown !!, it seem to me that a few years of experience helped you out too  but ya 4wd, is kindda be the way to go in snow ... or maybe RWd tooo ... helps cutting throu corners and scares the hell out of some peeps haha


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## coachflip (May 7, 2002)

That car looks like a load of fun! I have a 89 sentra AWD rear end in my 87 pulsar and I was wondering if you knew any of those 88-90 AWD nissans had a LSD option for the rear? I would love to have a LSD over the current open diff in the rear end.

Brent


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

coachflip said:


> That car looks like a load of fun! I have a 89 sentra AWD rear end in my 87 pulsar and I was wondering if you knew any of those 88-90 AWD nissans had a LSD option for the rear? I would love to have a LSD over the current open diff in the rear end.
> 
> Brent


Brent,
Nissan never made them available with a LSD rear diff. But I really wanted one so I bought a used R160 diff out of a Subaru XT Turbo. It has the correct 3.70 ratio and is an LSD. Be careful, not all Subie diffs are LSD. It will say LSD right on the little chrome sticker on the rear cover. _Finding]/i] a Subie LSD diff is one thing, but then the hard part starts. The axle connections are vastly different. The Subie diff is like the old Z's and 510's, that have an externally bolted flange to attach the axle to. The 4WD B12 Sentras used a male end on the axle, much like a front axle pops into the trans. So........what I had to do was disassemble both diffs and remove the spider gears. The stock open diff had snap ring grooves machined into them that retained the stock axles. I am fortunate that my Dad is a machinist. He took the Subie side axle spider gears and chocked them up in his lathe to cut a snap-ring groove into the splines, to duplicate the stock open Nissan R160 diff. This is easier said than done, becuse the gears are heat treated and hardened. He got it done though, with the help of a carbide tool bit. In any case, it worked out great, but I doubt many people would go through what we did to make it happen.









**** *Brent, tell us more about your 4WD rear suspension in your Pulsar. How did you do that? Is it now AWD?*_


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

Looks like it's his car that is being discussed in this thread http://www.nissanforums.com/showthread.php?t=46388
That must be pretty sweet to have an AWD pulsar!


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## SuperStock (Dec 31, 2003)

Blown, with your expertise in wiring and fabrication, an SR20DET is in your future! the "improved OEM" style u have applied to this project serves u well in all capacities. The motor install looks stock. all swaps should follow your example. with the wagon body, utility is maximized, while u surprise the unwary with sports car grip and horsepower. nice work dude. The scooby rear LSD exploits the 4WD to your ultimate advantage, as u led the ice race with ease. This truly shows all who view this thread just how capable the B12 is, using real world OEM and other applicable parts. With a tuned SR20DET, u are unstoppable. Can u imagine full opposite lock in the rain alongside an M3? The expression on your quarry's face is worth the investment in time. 
I could only hope to meet someone local to me who knows fab work and electrical for these cars. The potential for supremacy cannot be ignored!!!
keep us posted, blown, thanks for the info


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

actually he has a GA16DE in his wagon. And since this has to do with AWD stuff...is your wagon AWD or 4WD? In other words can you drive it safely on pavement?? Reason I ask is i've been thinking about converting my puslar to awd...but was under the impression that all USDM trannies are 4wd and won't differentiate between front and rear. But I'm going to use a CA20 so its different application. The only 4wd tranny for CA20 is stanza wagon (which i have) but it doesnt' differentiate between front and back. Anyone have an idea how to cure that if I used a 4wd tranny?

I'll do some of my own research and post it at sometime...I've got a lot of leads but won't say anything til i know what i'm talking about  

sorry for the long post :cheers:


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

SuperStock said:


> Blown, with your expertise in wiring and fabrication, an SR20DET is in your future! the "improved OEM" style u have applied to this project serves u well in all capacities. The potential for supremacy cannot be ignored!!!
> Keep us posted, blown, thanks for the info


Thanks very much Superstock! :thumbup: I appreciate your kind words and enthusiasm. There is nothing like hanging the tail out on this thing at 75 mph going through a big sweeper on the ice!









I'd love an SR20DET, but I am quite happy with the GA16DE right now. Someday a turbo will be in order to round out the package.












Gosolo said:


> actually he has a GA16DE in his wagon.


Yes, SuperStock realizes that.  He was just saying that an SR20DET would be his next move.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

blownb310 said:


> Yes, SuperStock realizes that.  He was just saying that an SR20DET would be his next move.


i was wondering about that after I said something. And I was thinking about rear ends recently doing some research...going to start another thread about it.


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## SuperStock (Dec 31, 2003)

Gsolo said:


> actually he has a GA16DE in his wagon.


ya i know
thats why i suggested an SR, cause its an easy swap for him.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Gsolo said:


> And since this has to do with AWD stuff...is your wagon AWD or 4WD? In other words can you drive it safely on pavement?? Reason I ask is i've been thinking about converting my puslar to awd...but was under the impression that all USDM trannies are 4wd and won't differentiate between front and rear. But I'm going to use a CA20 so its different application. The only 4wd tranny for CA20 is stanza wagon (which i have) but it doesnt' differentiate between front and back. Anyone have an idea how to cure that if I used a 4wd tranny?


I'm a little scetchy on what differentiates 4WD or AWD.







The 4WD B12's were made three years, '87, '88, and '89. The '87 and '88's were E16i powered and had a button in the shifter to engage and disengage the 4WD. You do not want to drive these in 4WD in the dry. The car will bind up in the turns.
However, in '89 Nissan added the GA16i engine and did away with the 4WD button and made the car full time 4WD. Nissan did this by engaging the transfer case in 4WD all the time, doing away with the electric servo motor that previously actuated the transfer case mode, and added a viscous coupling to the rear of the transfer case [in front of the rear driveshaft]. This is exactly what the WRX has. This allows the car to turn easily, even in 4WD. I'm not aware that the M10 4WD Stanza Wagons had that. You would definately need a viscous coupling in between the transfer case and the rear driveshaft to drive it on the street. I hope this answers your questions.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

blownb310 said:


> I'm a little scetchy on what differentiates 4WD or AWD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so...if i can somehow get that viscous coupling to work on the M10 drivetrain then I'd be set? is that possible? and i've started another thread about this so post it there cause its easier to keep all the info in one thread. And yeah, m10 didn't have that, i've driven a few times in 4wd during dry for fun...makes it launch really fast cause it wont spin at all, but scarey when turning.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

hey blown...what transmission do you have? According to the book sentra only had the 31A...but by parts numbers the AWD would have to have the 50A


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Gsolo said:


> hey blown...what transmission do you have? According to the book sentra only had the 31A...but by parts numbers the AWD would have to have the 50A


 The book is right. I have the RS5F31A transaxle. They had a special case 31A for the 4WD cars.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

blownb310 said:


> The book is right. I have the RS5F31A transaxle. They had a special case 31A for the 4WD cars.


thats funky. The transfer case is the same case thats used on the stanza wagon, just different internals. Thanks for the info and help.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Great news for the two or three of us who want to put a Subaru diff in the rear of our 4WD Sentras. I was replacing the rear wheel bearings on a '99 Impreza 2.5 RS today. I'm looking at the rear diff and notice that unlike the axles of the old Subarus that are retained externally with a roll pin, the '99 2.5 RS axles snap right in, just like the original 4WD B12's do. Evidently, Subaru changed their rear axle design in the late nineties. This means that all of the disassembly, custom machining of the spider gears, and reassembly of my late '80's Subaru LSD R160 diff to fit my stock 4WD B12 rear axles won't be necessary if you get the '99 2.5 Diff. I checked the axle retention method and it's a match, splines and all! However, that's not the end of the story. I do not know if the '99 Subie diff is a 3.70 or not. And also, this particular '99 2.5 RS diff is NOT an LSD. But perhaps it was an option on the 2.5 RS's and maybe the WRX's also have the R160 rear diff. It would be worth looking into.

















'99 Subie 2.5 RS undercarriage showing it's R160 differential.









Same setup as the old B12 4WD diffs. Older Subies had external spined stub shafts that used a retaining roll pin.









The newer Subies and the old 4WD B12's use a C-clip inside of the spider gears that lock into this groove in the axle splines to retain the axles.


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

The Subie's do come with LSD's but a lot are viscous and thus have a special double slined CV on one side. This would mean having to use the Subie CV's or one of them at least. Maybe the Subie inner CV will fit a B12 shaft? You never know, maybe? I have some Subie VLSD shafts in my shed I can photograph if you like so you can see what I mean.

-Eddie-


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Ratdat said:


> The Subie's do come with LSD's but a lot are viscous and thus have a special double slined CV on one side. This would mean having to use the Subie CV's or one of them at least. Maybe the Subie inner CV will fit a B12 shaft? You never know, maybe? I have some Subie VLSD shafts in my shed I can photograph if you like so you can see what I mean.
> 
> -Eddie-


That would be excellent Eddie. I'd love to see what that looks like. I did not know the Subaru diffs with Viscous LSD used a double splined CV on one side. Do you know what year Subaru started using VLSD diffs? As you know, the late '80's Subaru LSD diff that I modified to fit my B12 is not a VLSD, but a regular clutch type diff. I'll go and check around on the NASIOC forums to learn a bit more.


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

blownb310 said:


> That would be excellent Eddie. I'd love to see what that looks like. I did not know the Subaru diffs with Viscous LSD used a double splined CV on one side. Do you know what year Subaru started using VLSD diffs? As you know, the late '80's Subaru LSD diff that I modified to fit my B12 is not a VLSD, but a regular clutch type diff. I'll go and check around on the NASIOC forums to learn a bit more.


Here you go  The double splined CV is on the RH driveshaft. This came from a '98 model if I remember rightly. I spend a lot of money buying the diff and shafts in '99 for my 510 only to find i couldn't use it I don't know when they started using VLSD's but I was told by an Impreza enthusiast thay they no longer fit them an new cars have either plate LSD's or Torsen diffs.


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## coachflip (May 7, 2002)

If this all fits you are a god! I would think that there is something aftermarket out there that may work in the stock diff, like a phantom grip or something so that we can convert the non lsd diff into an lsd one very easily. THen we can get away with the nissan axles and what not. THis is really cool guys.

Brent


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

to bad its to much trouble to do AWD pulsar...but now i'm curious about building a CA20DET AWD sentra wagon or stanza wagon. With LSD rear end that would be awesome. But I've always wondered, what happens when you have the rear end LSD but the front isnt? And are the subie and nissan shafts the same diameter also? someone should try fitting the nissan shaft into the subie shaft. Also remember that the subie rear end might not have the same dimensions so whatever shafts you use might not still match to the wheel correctly. But it the shaft is to long you could find a very good driveshaft man and have it shortened to correct length, might be expensive but worth it.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

coachflip said:


> If this all fits you are a god! I would think that there is something aftermarket out there that may work in the stock diff, like a phantom grip or something so that we can convert the non lsd diff into an lsd one very easily. THen we can get away with the nissan axles and what not. THis is really cool guys.
> 
> Brent


Hmm,
That's a good point. Phantom Grip makes a unit for the R160 diffs here: http://www.spmotorsports.com/ATCmisc_lsd_subaru.html
That would be the easiest method.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Ratdat said:


> Here you go  The double splined CV is on the RH driveshaft. This came from a '98 model if I remember rightly. I spend a lot of money buying the diff and shafts in '99 for my 510 only to find i couldn't use it I don't know when they started using VLSD's but I was told by an Impreza enthusiast thay they no longer fit them an new cars have either plate LSD's or Torsen diffs.


Thank you very much for posting the picture Eddie.  Yes, now it is very clear that the VLSD diff probably would not be worth considering for this swap. I still have to get on the Subie web sites and find out what the new WRX's are using for a rear diff. I know they have a rear LSD, but for all I know, they might be using an R180 with all that turbo power.

I found the diff you need for your 510 Eddie. Shipping costs to the UK would be high though. This is the exact type I modified the spider gears on, and used in my 4WD B12. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...&item=2481022731&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Gsolo said:


> But I've always wondered, what happens when you have the rear end LSD but the front isnt?


I wondered that too, before I swapped mine in. The answer is: It works great! That's not too surprising as that's what all of the standard 227 hp WRX's have from the factory. 



Gsolo said:


> And are the subie and nissan shafts the same diameter also? someone should try fitting the nissan shaft into the subie shaft.


Yes, they are both the same diameter and use the same spline. I'm talking about the late '80's subie diffs when I say this. They include the Loyales, XT's, GL's, and maybe even a Justy.


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

in that pic, are the joints the same type, then maybe you could see if the b12's shaft with cv joint will slide into the subie's CV housing(they look extremely similar)? Just throwin' stuff out there.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

minute rice sentra said:


> in that pic, are the joints the same type, then maybe you could see if the b12's shaft with cv joint will slide into the subie's CV housing(they look extremely similar)? Just throwin' stuff out there.


I tried that. I removed and bought both inner cv joints from the rear of a Subie in the junkyard. I tried to fit them on the Nissan axles and they don't fit. That's why I ended up taking the Subie diff apart and having the snap ring groove cut into the inside splines of the side gears to accept the snap ring in the stock Nissan axles. Good thought though.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

blownb310 said:


> Yes, they are both the same diameter and use the same spline. I'm talking about the late '80's subie diffs when I say this. They include the Loyales, XT's, GL's, and maybe even a Justy.


yeah, i wonder what the new ones are then for shaft diameter. i might hit some junkyards this summer and try to remember if no one else does it yet


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

blownb310 said:


> ***** Gentlemen, thanks for the compliments!  AVERAGE, it would indeed, be easier to put in an SR20 at this point, because alot of the wiring would already be done. I have actually thought of that, but what to do for an SR20 4WD trans? I know of a guy from NYC, that has not one, but two SR20 4WD five speed trans/transfer case setups. They came with two SR20DET's he imported. He has no use for them, he only wanted the engines. I have considered the possibilities, but I am not ready to do something like that just yet. Hmm......maybe someday.


Well, I am now the owner of a Pulsar GTiR 4WD 5 speed trans, transfer case assy, axles, matching clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel for an SR20. All I need now is a motor. One of these days.....


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## coachflip (May 7, 2002)

blownb310 said:


> Well, I am now the owner of a Pulsar GTiR 4WD 5 speed trans, transfer case assy, axles, matching clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel for an SR20. All I need now is a motor. One of these days.....


I have been looking for a set of GTi-R front axles for a long time. Where did you get all that from if I may ask? My front axles were in rough shape when I got them and I don't think they will last much longer.

Brent


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

blownb310 said:


> Well, I am now the owner of a Pulsar GTiR 4WD 5 speed trans, transfer case assy, axles, matching clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel for an SR20. All I need now is a motor. One of these days.....



I know youve been very good with a set of mikunis .. and you could pretty easely rebuilt an N/a Sr20de ... how but swapping something like that over the ga16de in the wagon ?? could be something really hot to blow some ice at the lake this winter  im thinking turbo will be too much for ice racing but on the pavement ... ouff


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

coachflip said:


> I have been looking for a set of GTi-R front axles for a long time. Where did you get all that from if I may ask? My front axles were in rough shape when I got them and I don't think they will last much longer.
> 
> Brent


 I got them from a fellow ice racer who imported some high performance RHD Japanese cars. One of them was a '91 Pulsar GTiR and the trans failed on it. So he located another enthusiast here in the US that bought a whole GTiR front clip, but just needed the engine and harnesses. My friend then bought a package deal of all of the parts the other guy didn't use including a couple of trannys and the pair of axles. Well then, I bought the my friend's leftovers. Nothing goes to waste with GTiR parts.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Crazy-Mart said:


> I know youve been very good with a set of mikunis .. and you could pretty easely rebuilt an N/a Sr20de ... how but swapping something like that over the ga16de in the wagon ?? could be something really hot to blow some ice at the lake this winter  im thinking turbo will be too much for ice racing but on the pavement ... ouff


 Hey Marty, nice to hear from you. This isn't anything I will do this winter. This will be a project a little further down the road. I've got to get a decent SE-R parts car to get everything I need for the swap. I would stick with the stock SR20DE fuel injection and harnesses. I still have to figure out if the final drive gear ratios match between the GTiR tranny and the original 3.70 ratio in my R160 rear diff.


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## greenbean699 (Jan 18, 2004)

*'89 ga16i to '92 ga16de*

:thumbup: Hey all you Nissan Freaks. I started my 2nd swap 1 month ago when my sister-in-law totaled my father-in-laws b13. I have a '89 with the ga16i and it has been leaking oil from the oil pan and timing cover for some time, not to mention the ready to throw a rod sound when i crank it up....lol. 

Any way i have the ga16de bolted in to car now and just starting to get the wires into place. 

Just woundering if the ga16i fuel pump is the same as the ga16de? I thought maybe the fuel pressure might be different?

I will probly post some pics when its all done. I still need to do some work with the brake pedal and clutch as well. Also the drivers side axle got broke so i still need one of those as well. I will keep you all informed.


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## cooljamaican2 (Dec 29, 2004)

greenbean699 said:


> :thumbup: Hey all you Nissan Freaks. I started my 2nd swap 1 month ago when my sister-in-law totaled my father-in-laws b13. I have a '89 with the ga16i and it has been leaking oil from the oil pan and timing cover for some time, not to mention the ready to throw a rod sound when i crank it up....lol.
> 
> Any way i have the ga16de bolted in to car now and just starting to get the wires into place.
> 
> ...




yes the pump will work just the same thats what i used for about 2years with my ga16de engine until i went turbo and had to replace it with a high volume pump


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

cooljamaican2 said:


> yes the pump will work just the same thats what i used for about 2years with my ga16de engine until i went turbo and had to replace it with a high volume pump


Ditto,
I'm using the original B12 GA16i in tank fuel pump with my GA16DE with no problems whatsoever.

On another note, it looks like all of my pictures are gone from this thread and I can't edit them any longer to re-host them. Here are a few to replace the ones missing throughout this thread. 




















I fabricated this 2" mandrel bent exhaust system after installation. I had the original 1.5" three-bolt front pipe flange bored out to accept 2" pipe. Note the absence of an engine crossmember on the 4WD models. The rear mount is located on the rear of the transfer case and bolts to a reinforced section of the chassis. The 4WD cars had a completely different floor pan than the 2WD's.




































Slightly sideways at 75 is sweet. :thumbup: 









2005 New York State unstudded street class champion. Hey, if you look closely, you can see my red fully caged B11 race car in the backround too [near the black pickup]. Yes, it's the only B11 ice race car in the club.


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## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

hey mike! still kicking around the boards,huh? it has been awhile!


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

AVERAGE said:


> hey mike! still kicking around the boards,huh? it has been awhile!


 Yes, it's been a while but I'm always lurking every now and then. I've started to get the itch to do something SR20 powered with 4WD. Not sure which avenue I will go yet. I can swap one into my wagon or convert my B13 SE-R to AWD. That's never been done as far as I know. You don't dare even mention it on SR20 forums, as the subject has been brought up many times over the last few years and you get flamed if you even talk about it. It's very much a "do it or don't talk about it" issue. I'm eyeballing a '91 SE-R donor car in PA right now. I could use in one of two ways. I could pull the SR20DE, ecu, and harnesses out to swap into the red car, or start cutting the floor out and grafting in the floor sections and rear drive setup from my tan '88 4WD B12 parts car. I've been collecting parts for this deal for a while now. I've got two GTiR five speeds, a set of axles, a manual flywheel and clutch assy, and an extra B12 4WD fuel tank, which is needed to straddle the rear driveshaft. Time will tell. I hope I won't get flamed for talking about it before I actually do it.


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

im sure you can get it done .... we (a bunch of nissan mofo in mtl) are planning to put a SR rwd into a dodge colt 200gt ... so everything can be done for sure !!  i wich i could find a 4wd sentra as clean as your's Mike !! ... it would be my newest project !!... a guy around here is selling is pulsar SSS rear end and tranny ... wouldnt it be great  ??


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Just thought I'd pop in here and update this thread. Although I was worried that I would need a turbo on my GA16DE, or an SR swap, none of those things were necessary. My stock GA16DE with a 2" mandrel bent exhaust system actually surprised me in a big way this year. I was able to beat five different WRX's [two were STi's] and one Evo on the ice this season to capture my fourth ice racing season championship and second consecutive Street Legal Unstudded AWD class title. 










OK now for the explanation. Yes the Subies and Evos were faster than I was in the straights, but I am 600 lbs. lighter than they are and go around the corners better. There was a second Evo, who had a very talented driver and he did outrun me on several occasions. But at the conclusion of seven weekends of racing, my old B12 4WD wagon stood at the top the podium for the 2006 Bridgestone Series title. :thumbup:


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

well mike .. I have to say you always make my old school chin drop every time:jawdrop: 

chip


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## SENTRASER (Jan 6, 2005)

I just got a B12 wagon just like yours!! Anyway I can pick at your brain a bit? LMK, I'd love to do a swap in this car, it deserves better than a SOHC throttle injection engine.:lame:


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## SENTRASER (Jan 6, 2005)

Mike, you alive?


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

SENTRASER said:


> Hey,
> I just aquired a twin to your car, except mine has the painted bumpers. I am thinking about putting a GA16DE into it, but I just had a few questions for ya. Do I need to use the stock flywheel and clutch combo off the GA16i, or can I use one off a GA16DE? ~Ryan


 I am here Ryan,

Yes you will need to use the original GA16i flywheel and the original 200 mm 4WD clutch. The GA16DE's 190mm clutch and flywheel will not work. Hey got any pics of your car? The 89's are fairly rare.


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## SENTRASER (Jan 6, 2005)

blownb310 said:


> I am here Ryan,
> 
> Yes you will need to use the original GA16i flywheel and the original 200 mm 4WD clutch. The GA16DE's 190mm clutch and flywheel will not work. Hey got any pics of your car? The 89's are fairly rare.


Apparently they made them in 1990 as well? Yes, I have pictures of it, I will post them tonight. would there be any way you could fix the links that you have on your other posts too?:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

SENTRASER said:


> Apparently they made them in 1990 as well? Yes, I have pictures of it, I will post them tonight. would there be any way you could fix the links that you have on your other posts too?:thumbup: :thumbup:


 I wish I could. For reasons unbeknownst to me, the editing feature is turned off on this sight after a short period of time nowadays. Something to do with knucklheads screwing around. There always seems to be a few bad apples.....


I have never seen a '90 4WD wagon. Has anyone else?


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## SENTRASER (Jan 6, 2005)

http://www.sr20forum.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=642














































 :idhitit:


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## SENTRASER (Jan 6, 2005)

P.S. Does your car have a tach?

http://www.autotrader.com/research/...46&restype=used&makeList=Nissan&yearList=1989


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Wow,

I thought someone took pictures of my car........










The 4WD wagons were only available in the XE trim level and did not have tachs. I upgraded mine with a factory tach cluster from a GXE model. 

Thanks for that link which shows the specs of the car. I didn't remember that they were rated at 23-25 mpg. Mine actually gets 30 mpg quite easily with the GA16DE, *but* that is partially because I drive the car in 2WD all year, except for winter. The 4WD definately costs power and therefore fuel mileage. Each Spring, I remove the rear driveshaft [which weighs about 60 lbs.] and put the transfer case into 2WD.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Ryan,

Your car looks really nice! What state are you in, how many miles are on it, and what did you pay for it?


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## SENTRASER (Jan 6, 2005)

Updated sig, it has 90,500 miles on it now, it had 88,000 on it when I got it. Weird, I was looking at the database I have on it at work, and it shows the 4wd avaliable in GXE with a diffrent center console, I cant seem to find any power windows or power mirrors for it though. How hard was it to convert it to the GXE instrument cluster? The car was about 2 states away from you when I bought it, it was in Pittsburgh, PA. I got it for $2235 or something like that, I know I paid premium, but I knew how rare it was, and I wanted it BAD.  Thanks for the complements, it does have a bit of rust, but not really visiable unless you look close, the good news is my pops runs a body shop, so I can fix it there.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

dundee said:


> awesome job!
> 
> you need to turbo that sucker and hunt some wrx's!


Well it's six years later and the same GA16DE is still going strong. Only now, it's a GA16DET. :thumbup: 










I'll start a new thread with the details, but I always knew I'd come back to this thread and answer dundee's suggestion some day.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

*HERE'S* the new thread. I appropriately posted it in the Forced Induction section.


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## sentrastud (May 3, 2002)

nice work!!!! Kinda makes me wish I didnt sell my Sentra 3 months ago!


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

i am inspired! i have an extra gtir tranny laying around(hehe) and have a gti-r long block on the motor stand, and the wiring harness, and a jwt reworked ecu laying around.....hmm
to do the sr2o awd swap i would also get the gtir front bar for the front motor mount and weld that in...my pulsar does not have that stupid cross member in it! and taking the motor out and putting it in is a breeze all the mounts you can get to standing!! 
now should i put the parts back in my pulsar or give the wagon a heart transplant?
and I will be looking for a subie rear for the lsd and axle swap for both cars!


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