# Sticky  Project Pathfinder



## Coco (Apr 30, 2002)

http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/september03/pathfinder/ 

Enjoy!


----------



## nissannut (Jul 3, 2003)

Yeah!!!


----------



## Dan-zig (Apr 19, 2003)

i like it!


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

I like the mods they've made, but I think it's interesting that they turned their bad judgement around into a dig on domestic vehicles. If they were going to tow a vehicle, they should have got the correct vehicle to begin with...not a Nissan. A simple half-ton Ford or Chevy or Dodge would have done just fine there. A co-worker has just the vehicle this guy needs -- an '88 Chevy 1/2 ton with 264,000 miles -- more than double what he has on his "reliable" Pathfinder.


----------



## mookie (Feb 27, 2003)

I certainly agree. There's more to safe towing than making the Pathy stop better and more stable to tow with just a 1/4 ton Pathy platform is asking for trouble. I think we've all seen the results of an underrated tow vehcile being "pushed". 

There are reasons why you use long wheel based 1/2 ,3/4, 1 ton, etc to tow with. It distributes the weight of the trailer plus cargo on the FRONT diffs of the tow vehicle along with the rear. I'm assuming with a load of 4k, they have trailer brakes. The plans are to probably switch out the stock gearing to tow?


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

mookie said:


> *I certainly agree. There's more to safe towing than making the Pathy stop better and more stable to tow with just a 1/4 ton Pathy platform is asking for trouble. I think we've all seen the results of an underrated tow vehcile being "pushed".
> 
> There are reasons why you use long wheel based 1/2 ,3/4, 1 ton, etc to tow with. It distributes the weight of the trailer plus cargo on the FRONT diffs of the tow vehicle along with the rear. I'm assuming with a load of 4k, they have trailer brakes. The plans are to probably switch out the stock gearing to tow? *


No kidding, its not like were stupid and don't realize these things, if I could easily do it, I would get a different truck but my wife won't let me.

Well for one, its not bad judgement when you don't have room for another vehicle at your house, you can't convince the wife to let you buy the turbo diesel F250 Superduty you want because she thinks its dumb to spend the money for something you only use once a month and the Pathfinder is paid for and basicaly for free.

The stock gearing is 4.40 or so so you don't need to lower it.

It will be interesting to see if it works.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *I like the mods they've made, but I think it's interesting that they turned their bad judgement around into a dig on domestic vehicles. If they were going to tow a vehicle, they should have got the correct vehicle to begin with...not a Nissan. A simple half-ton Ford or Chevy or Dodge would have done just fine there. A co-worker has just the vehicle this guy needs -- an '88 Chevy 1/2 ton with 264,000 miles -- more than double what he has on his "reliable" Pathfinder. *


As owner of many domestic vehicles before and the builder of many fast ones, I can say that Nissans are more solidly built and trouble free than any domestic I have ever owned.

This 120k plus pathfinder has never had any sort of repair done to it other than regular maintanance. Not one single repair. I bet thats better thany our buddies Chevy. No domesitc I have ever owned is like this or any of my other Nissans. It doesnt leak a drop of anything, looks pretty new inside and out and doesnt burn a drop of oil inbetween changes.

Its not like I bought this vehicle just to tow, that would be stupid, I know its not a good tow vehicle. I am going to try to make it work and if it doesn't, I am going to sell it and buy a F250 Superduty turbodiesel. I already own the thing, its paid for and if I can make do with it, that one less vehicle I have to find a place to park, make payments on, insure and take care of since I already have 4 cars. Being really into cars is a pain in the ass sometimes.

I know I can build a VG30E with 260 hp and 240 lb/ft of torque which is more than a 5.0 Ford or a 4.6 SOHC modular motor which comes in many half ton trucks. It just might work and save me a bunch of money and space. 

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *Its not like I bought this vehicle just to tow, that would be stupid, I know its not a good tow vehicle. I am going to try to make it work and if it doesn't, I am going to sell it and buy a F250 Superduty turbodiesel.
> 
> I know I can build a VG30E with 260 hp and 240 lb/ft of torque which is more than a 5.0 Ford or a 4.6 SOHC modular motor which comes in many half ton trucks.*


If it were me, I'd buy a used 1/2 ton Chevy with the 5.3L. 295 hp and 330 lbs of torque if I'm not mistaken -- way more than you could reliably build a VG30E to. But you already know that it's not the engine that makes the tow vehicle, but the chassis and brakes. In my opinion, you could buy a great 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck for what you could sell your Pathfinder for, plus the cost of all the mods you've done or plan on doing. You'd have a safe and reliable tow vehicle for little outflow of money.

You don't have to buy a new vehicle to get a great vehicle. Every single car I've owned has been used -- and domestic by the way. The Nissan is my first Japanese vehicle and I really like it. It already has over 178k miles on it and I plan to replace it with an Xterra or Frontier in a few years. So far, it's been as good to me as all the domestic cars I've owned (four GM vehicles, an '84 Olds, '87 Buick, '97 Saturn, '97 Cadillac...and only one had fewer than 100k miles) and I hope it stays that way.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *If it were me, I'd buy a used 1/2 ton Chevy with the 5.3L. 295 hp and 330 lbs of torque if I'm not mistaken -- way more than you could reliably build a VG30E to. But you already know that it's not the engine that makes the tow vehicle, but the chassis and brakes. In my opinion, you could buy a great 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck for what you could sell your Pathfinder for, plus the cost of all the mods you've done or plan on doing. You'd have a safe and reliable tow vehicle for little outflow of money.
> 
> You don't have to buy a new vehicle to get a great vehicle. Every single car I've owned has been used -- and domestic by the way. The Nissan is my first Japanese vehicle and I really like it. It already has over 178k miles on it and I plan to replace it with an Xterra or Frontier in a few years. So far, it's been as good to me as all the domestic cars I've owned (four GM vehicles, an '84 Olds, '87 Buick, '97 Saturn, '97 Cadillac...and only one had fewer than 100k miles) and I hope it stays that way. *


One of the things is that I don't like Chevys, I don't like working on them, there are so many stupid things that makes working on them lame.

Ever try to change plugs on an Astro van, do a clutch job on a Saturn, nearly anything on a late model Camero? Just a simple tune up on a Tech 4 in a cavalier can sometimes end up being rather vexing. Those ar just the Chevys I have worked on lately. I think Chevy does not pay much attention to mantainabilty on their late model stuff. My family used to always buy domestics and every single one of them had lots of problems, we just considered constant repairs normal until we started buying Nissans.

My wife loves her Pathfinder, hates trucks, vetoed my F250 purchase and my Titan purchase. The Armada is too long for my garage to close unless I get rid of my big roll a way tool boxes. I can build Nissan engines cheaply, technicaly I can get 586 whp and 597 lb ft of torque out of a VG30E all bottom end torque if I wanted to really spend money but this is about cheap because I don't really like trucks or SUV's so why dump money into them.

Other pluses the Pathfinder has is that its highly off road capable with good gearing, long travel suspension, short overhangs and a LSD stock. The other thing is I want the engineering challange of doing it. I build 400 whp SR20's and 600 whp VG30DETT's so why not try to build a tow vechicle? 


Mike


----------



## nissannut (Jul 3, 2003)

Ditto. 

I agree with you Mike. I have experienced the same things. I have worked on some co workers Fxxds lately and I find myself buying Special tools just to change a fuel filter. 

My other coworker wanted my help to change his spark plugs on a PT cruizer. You have to remove the intake manifold and its plastic.. 

I love the engineering that goes into Nissans, Thats why I buy them.


----------



## black_knight (Sep 3, 2003)

why don't you just trade your pathfinder for a newer one (01-03) with that 3.5 engine? tons more power, higher tow rating and since you love your pathfinder so much it'll be like having the same car just more refined and newer!!! and if you replace that one with a new one it will do all the things you are accustomed to and you won't have to find another spot to park it in. Here in texas there are quite a few nice 01-02 models fully loaded for under 20k and good mileage!

later,


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

black_knight said:


> *why don't you just trade your pathfinder for a newer one (01-03) with that 3.5 engine? tons more power, higher tow rating and since you love your pathfinder so much it'll be like having the same car just more refined and newer!!! and if you replace that one with a new one it will do all the things you are accustomed to and you won't have to find another spot to park it in. Here in texas there are quite a few nice 01-02 models fully loaded for under 20k and good mileage!
> 
> later, *


I don't like SUV's and I don't want to spend any more money on one than I have to! Plus the old pathfinder has better brakes, stronger body on frame construction and much better off road capabilty. The motor I am going to build has 260 hp and more torque than the VQ stock.

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

Nissan's got their own quirks -- supplying a special spark plug wrench with V6 trucks because you can't get to the plugs with normal tools? That's solving a symptom, not a problem. The people on some of the GM forums regard foreign vehicles the same way you do domestics -- they much prefer American cars because they're simpler to work on. Indeed, I put a water pump on my Cadillac last spring and it took all of about 45 minutes. The pump is driven directly off one the cams on the left side of the engine and doesn't even bolt to the housing -- it's clocked in using a special tool (it's about 20 bucks for the tool). I compare that to the same job on my Nissan truck and just pray that it doesn't fail anytime soon!  I guess it all depends on your past experience and preferences.

Mike, you mention that you think the older Pathfinders (mid 90s) have better off-road capability than the new ones. Setting tire choice aside, I'd like to discuss that with you. I always thought the front suspension design of the Hardbody/Pathfinder in the 80s and 90s always left something to be desired, especially in terms of suspension travel. It seems that there's less travel than most other trucks, and the torsion bars are much stiffer as a result to keep from bottoming the suspension out. Do you have any comments about that?


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *Nissan's got their own quirks -- supplying a special spark plug wrench with V6 trucks because you can't get to the plugs with normal tools? That's solving a symptom, not a problem. The people on some of the GM forums regard foreign vehicles the same way you do domestics -- they much prefer American cars because they're simpler to work on. Indeed, I put a water pump on my Cadillac last spring and it took all of about 45 minutes. The pump is driven directly off one the cams on the left side of the engine and doesn't even bolt to the housing -- it's clocked in using a special tool (it's about 20 bucks for the tool). I compare that to the same job on my Nissan truck and just pray that it doesn't fail anytime soon!  I guess it all depends on your past experience and preferences.
> 
> Mike, you mention that you think the older Pathfinders (mid 90s) have better off-road capability than the new ones. Setting tire choice aside, I'd like to discuss that with you. I always thought the front suspension design of the Hardbody/Pathfinder in the 80s and 90s always left something to be desired, especially in terms of suspension travel. It seems that there's less travel than most other trucks, and the torsion bars are much stiffer as a result to keep from bottoming the suspension out. Do you have any comments about that? *


The VG does not require a special tool to remove the sparkplugs! All you need is a Universal joint, a long extnsion and a regular plug socket. Its not even that hard!

After having both and extensivly working on both, I'd have to say that Nissan's, Toyota's and Honda's are way better engineered and easy to work on cars than the domestics. I think Fords are pretty easy to work on but GM's and Mopars are hopeless. Most people with opinions don't have the experiance and their opinions are baised on predjustice instead of facts. 

I mean I actualy work on cars and have built some really fast street cars of many makes domestic and import and there is a reason why I don't like domestics as much.

I didnt realize that the Northstar water pump was that easy, I have never worked on a Northstar engine myself, although the VG really isnt that hard either, I just change it as cheap PM when I change the timing belt.

I think that the Pathfinders torsion bars sag and people neglect to turn them back up. Pathfinders have pretty good wheel travel. My Neigboors S10 thats all lifted certainly doesnt have much travel either and its always breaking the suspension. The Nissan bends its idler arm support and thats about it.

Doing suspension tuning at work, we do some pretty crazy stuff in Nissans and they hold up pretty good. The newer pathfinder has struts up front with less travel , less articulation and poor mod potential and has more rear overhang. In testing it would get stuck and the older car would have to pull it out.

The new Armada and Titan are surprisingly good off road for their size, especialy with the optional locking diff. Their suspension has good articulation and the overhangs are small.

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *The VG does not require a special tool to remove the sparkplugs! All you need is a Universal joint, a long extnsion and a regular plug socket. Its not even that hard!*


Doesn't the truck come with a tool set that includes a crows foot and other weird looking extensions (like a traditional distributor wrench)? I've seen these on eBay and on friend's trucks. They said it came with it so you could change the #6 spark plug I think it was...



> *I think Fords are pretty easy to work on but GM's and Mopars are hopeless. Most people with opinions don't have the experiance and their opinions are baised on predjustice instead of facts.*


I really don't understand this comment -- but as you say, everyone has opinions... We've done a lot of engine work on a Ford Mustang (performance upgrades) and it was pretty simple... I've swapped engines in a Buick Regal before and it was cake. Took a 403 from a '79 Olds and dropped it in my '87 Regal. Both were Olds small blocks and was as close to a bolt-in engine swap as you get. As for Mopars, I don't know...if it's not a V-8, I stay away from it. Most of their 4s and V-6s are Mitsubishi's anyway. And nowadays, if they're not Mitsus, they're MB's, so who knows what you've got there. To me, Chrysler has always been a mixed bag, but my family has been through 4 Jeeps since 1988 and loved them all. We took our '96 GrandC through two Jeep Jamborees and had a wonderful time. We chewed up the transmission skid plate and twisted a front control arm, but we had a hell of a time doing it! Those Jeeps are such billy goats.



> *I didnt realize that the Northstar water pump was that easy, I have never worked on a Northstar engine myself, although the VG really isnt that hard either, I just change it as cheap PM when I change the timing belt.*


A lot of people who are uninitiated with a particular package are really afraid to work on it, and spread rumors that they're hard to work on, just like you said. Most modern vehicles are as easy to work on as their historic counterparts, once you get down to the basics. You don't even have to set points anymore...heck...most cars don't even have distributors anymore! With the advent of dual platinum-tipped plugs from the factory, spark plug changes are almost eliminated. A dual platinum-tipped spark plug is usually good for hundreds of thousands of miles...usually the life of the car. They really don't need to be changed unless damage has occured. Plugs and wires are still original on my Northstar, at 124k miles, and it still runs 6.7 0-60 times, just like new. The quality of the OEM parts has come a long way since just a decade ago, on both sides of the pond.

Back in the 1980s, America was putting out some really trashy econobox cars, like GM's J- and N-bodies and Chrysler's K-cars, and the Japanese were making cars of a higher quality. Domestic vehicles still have that stigma from decades ago...and it's usually from people who quit buying them way back then and still chide them today. There are still a notable few which could really use some work in my opinion...like Ford/Mazda's compact trucks (Ranger/Explorer). They REALLY feel cheap and seem to use sub-par components. We had them as delivery trucks when I used to work at an auto parts retailer and had fair performance from them.

I think the powertrain engineering has come a long way since the 1980s also. GM has a great line of V8 engines, including the LS1 and the Northstar. These are worldclass powertrains which compare very favorably with the competition. The Corvette gets it done with pushrods and 2 valves/cylinder and the competition is using 4 or 5 valves and turbos. The Northstar engine is actually 1980s engineering, and has undergone very few changes over the past 10 years since it debuted. I think that's testament to how far Detroit has progressed since the days of setting on their laurels in the 1970s and early 1980s.

When I say I don't look forward to changing the water pump on a traditional engine, it's because it uses traditional engineering. You have to remove the radiator shroud, the fan, the clutch, loosen all the accessories, take pullies off, hope nothing is actually bolted to the front of the water pump, take out the bolts (which on an Altima, by the way, are unequal length, what a PITA) and reassemble. I like unconventional engineering. The Northstar and Saturn come to mind to me. The water pump on a Saturn isn't stuck in the middle of the engine where it takes hours just to unbolt everything to get to it. It's hanging off the side of the engine, driven by the belt. Just loosen the serpentine belt and the hoses and unbolt the pump. No fans to screw with, no gaskets or silicone, etc. I also like their automatic transmission filters...a canister -- just like an oil filter. What a novel idea. I wish every automatic transmission was that easy to change the filter on!



> *I think that the Pathfinders torsion bars sag and people neglect to turn them back up. Pathfinders have pretty good wheel travel. My Neigboors S10 thats all lifted certainly doesnt have much travel either and its always breaking the suspension. The Nissan bends its idler arm support and thats about it.
> 
> Doing suspension tuning at work, we do some pretty crazy stuff in Nissans and they hold up pretty good. The newer pathfinder has struts up front with less travel , less articulation and poor mod potential and has more rear overhang. In testing it would get stuck and the older car would have to pull it out.
> 
> Mike *


I think it's true that torsion bars do sag over time. I think mine probably have. But I compare my Nissan's ride off-road (which I consider choppy and harsh) to the gov't trucks at work (Chevy and Dodge 1/2 tons) and they ride comparatively like Cadillacs. Where my truck gets jarred by even the small ruts, the larger trucks soak them up with aplomb. I attributed this to the short travel and relatively stiff spring rate to keep the truck in the air. I ran without front shocks for a few days, just to see what the difference would have been. There really wasn't that much of a difference. The torsion bars are so stiff, there's really not a lot of uncontrolled movement anyway. Put the Ranchos back on and I could tell they were back on...but not by much. The difference certainly isn't as dramatic as I figured it would be.

Boy, this post sure got long-winded. But I really enjoy a good discussion -- even if it is between two people who's differing opinions on the subject probably never will change.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *Doesn't the truck come with a tool set that includes a crows foot and other weird looking extensions (like a traditional distributor wrench)? I've seen these on eBay and on friend's trucks. They said it came with it so you could change the #6 spark plug I think it was...
> *


Not my Pathfinder and I have had it since new. The rear plugs are not totay easy but a lot easier than the plugs on a Camro or Astro van for that matter!

All cars have some mechanical issues that come about during regular service that are infuriating, but domestics seem to have many more that raise their head even during routine stuff, like the impossible Saturn clutch, the center two spark plugs on an astro van, nearly everything on a late model camaro, Neon brake pads, sheet metal screws holding stuff to the SMC in vettes, the list goes on forever and this is stuff I just have run into lately.

For instance, my z only has the inacessable turbos, knock sensor and EGR valve plumbing, its a complcated car but most of the complication is logical and somewhat easy to deal with. My SE-R's have some plugs on the wiring harness that are a bitch to reach and the drivers side axle can hang up and the pathfinder has been pretty easy to work on.

The oil filters on the SE-R's and pathfinders make a mess when you change them and thats about all the stupid stuff. My experiance with Toyota's and Hondas is about the same.

I am an automotive engineer by trade and it seems like a lot of late model US cars like the Focus, Neon and Saturn use a lot of engineering that is design for assembly, where easy to assemble sub units are installed on the main body on the line. This is efficent and the Japanese pioneered this but often the domestics are diffcult to service or modify because of this. The Saturn and Focus especialy. Like you have to remove a whole assembly to gain access to areas of the car. The Japanese seem a lot better at pulling this off. Ford seems best at this from the domestic side.

These are generalizations but it sure seems that everytime I work on a domestic I get pissed at something and I hardly ever get tweeked or stuck on a stupid thing while working on a car built by the Japanese big three.

Are you sure you could hardly feel a difference with no shocks in your Pathfinder? Its an order of magnitude difference! Look at your bumpstops, if your older pathfinder is on the bumpstops or very close, then your torsion bars have sagged and you basicaly have little wheel travel, hence the harsh offroad ride.

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

Mike,

Looking at my front suspension ('95 Hardbody), the wishbones are pretty much centered between the bumpstops. There's about an inch of travel between both the top and bottom. The ride height is close to what it seems it should be. I can tell when I hit the bumpstops -- there's a pretty noticeable thud...

There's a pretty severe area of roadway which really tests a car's suspension, and it's optionally on my way home from work. It's a longer way home, but I can drive it any day of the week. The road sinks about 3 or 4 inches in a length of about 5 feet and then there's a big "ridge" in the road that really pitches the vehicle upwards.

Kinda like this (vertical heights greatly exagerated). Ignore the periods -- I had to use them to keep the spacing right:

.....___
__/......\..........._______.......<-- direction of travel
.............\____/

In my Cadillac -- and in the full size trucks at work -- the vehicle attitude stays pretty level as it lets the wheels sink down into the depression and then absorbs much of the vertical movement of the suspension over the rise, and then ultimately returns to flat road. In my Nissan by comparison, as the wheels follow the depression, it seems the body starts to fall already before you hit the rise. So the body is falling as the wheels hit the rise, which sends it straight upward...and as the body is catapulted upward, the wheels fall back over the backside of the rise and the body comes "crashing" down. It seems that in the case of my Nissan, the body is tied very closely to the suspension's movement, and I figured it's because the spring rate is very high to keep the wishbones between the bumpstops. It seems there's much less wheel travel on my truck than other vehicles, and I figured it was because of the design of the suspension. I have a '95 Car and Driver magazine where they tested a '95 SE truck new and they mentioned the suspension seemed to pogo off big bumps -- sending your head into the ceiling. I think "pogoing" is a great description of what the truck seems to do.

When I got the truck, the original shocks were still on it -- or at least they were Nissan shocks. My first set of shocks that I put on it were Monroes. The ride was pretty bouncy after that. Again, pogo is a good description. I figured the shocks weren't strong enough to control the stiff springs. So I "sprung" for a set of Rancho RS5000 shocks for the front and the problem continues, although not as badly. Between the Monroes and Ranchos, I rode around for a day without front shocks at all, and I didn't see much of a difference. Sure, it would bounce a little more after a big bump, and the ride was a touch more unsettled, but it wasn't at all what I would have expected. It was actually very smooth -- the texture of the road was gone and it was a very quiet ride. It wasn't safe in an emergency situation so I knew I'd have to proceed to put shocks back on, but I was pleasantly surprised at how it rode. I did the same trick on an '88 Jeep that we lifted (coil springs there) and the bouncing was much more pronounced and obvious.

Do you have any suggestions? If I wanted to really "fix" it so I like it, my first instinct would be to add a 3" lift with new upper wishbones to gain some more travel -- and install a softer front bar. I think the root of my "problem" is a strong torsion bar. They appear stock, but who knows. The Ranchos seem to be able to control it only a bit better than the Monroes did. The spring rate seems to overpower even the Rancho shocks. It's frustrating, but certainly not unlivable.

Thanks,


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *Mike,
> 
> Looking at my front suspension ('95 Hardbody), the wishbones are pretty much centered between the bumpstops. There's about an inch of travel between both the top and bottom. The ride height is close to what it seems it should be. I can tell when I hit the bumpstops -- there's a pretty noticeable thud...
> 
> ...


It sounds as iff your ride height is correct, my suspension set up is rancho 9000 RSX shocks, Nissan motorsports torsion bars (20% stiffer) rasied just about 3/4 more than stock, nissan motorsports rear springs which raise 1" more than stock, and energy bushings. My ride seems plush and it abosrobs pretty big bumps. Off road it takes a series of 3 or so big bumps to upset the suspension. My friends are suprised on how smooth my truck is off road.

When I hit something really big, I can feel it bottom. Tomarrow I am going to try a long progessive soft foam front bumpstop and a shorter urethane rear bumpstop. I think this will cushion the impact better. I use a simular setup on real low street and race cars and it makes it much harder to feel when the suspension bottoms out. I'll let you know how this works.

The rear bumpstop gives about 2" more rear wheel travel and improves articulation.

Maybe the 5000's don't have enough damping? I swear my bumpy road ride feels plush. Even with my stiffer torsion bars and springs, my ride feels better than stock!

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *Maybe the 5000's don't have enough damping? I swear my bumpy road ride feels plush. Even with my stiffer torsion bars and springs, my ride feels better than stock!*


I think even the 5000s are a tad too weak. The 9000s were out of my price range -- I was considering the Rancho 5000 or the KYB. I read many review saying the KYBs were stiff, and that's what I think I want. But I myself have had great experience with Rancho before, and I've never heard a bad thing about them, so I tried the 5000 series. These are described by the packaging as a sort of variable damping shock -- meaning it's soft in the middle and hard at the extremes. That over simplifies their description obviously, but I think even they might be too weak to control the spring rate.

My dad had 9000s before on his F-550 truck...are the RSX shocks also adjustable? What setting are you running yours at? I too would like to get some different bump stops on the front -- the lower ones are just huge. Are these the ones you plan to replace with softer foam? I've already removed my front stabilizer bar for more articulation and...you guessed it...couldn't really tell it was gone. If I make an extreme hard turn, I can tell the body is rolling more, but it's really not that much difference.

I think my truck is a freak.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *I think even the 5000s are a tad too weak. The 9000s were out of my price range -- I was considering the Rancho 5000 or the KYB. I read many review saying the KYBs were stiff, and that's what I think I want. But I myself have had great experience with Rancho before, and I've never heard a bad thing about them, so I tried the 5000 series. These are described by the packaging as a sort of variable damping shock -- meaning it's soft in the middle and hard at the extremes. That over simplifies their description obviously, but I think even they might be too weak to control the spring rate.
> 
> My dad had 9000s before on his F-550 truck...are the RSX shocks also adjustable? What setting are you running yours at? I too would like to get some different bump stops on the front -- the lower ones are just huge. Are these the ones you plan to replace with softer foam? I've already removed my front stabilizer bar for more articulation and...you guessed it...couldn't really tell it was gone. If I make an extreme hard turn, I can tell the body is rolling more, but it's really not that much difference.
> 
> I think my truck is a freak.  *


I put the foam front bump stops in and it seems to be pretty good. I was trying to find a bump that could bottom out the car but could not on the street, I was jumping off curbs going 30 mnph and still could not feel bottoming out. The car would just go bloop and soak up the hit. The urethane bump stops didnt fit (I think AC sent the wrong parts) but the Nissan Motorsports springs raised the back up about 3" so I got plenty of travel.

I think all 9000 series shocks are adjustable. I have the front shocks set to 5 and the rear 4 and the ride is very plush and smooth. The car seems to lean a lot less and cornering is a lot better but the front pushes because my alignment is way off. Going to adjust for about 1.2 degrees negative with the higher ride height and about 1/16 toe in. I also have the Rancho in-car remote adjusters and am probably going to put those in next week.

An interesting thing I noticed today is that the idler arm and drag link bushings allow a lot of flex in the steering. I think I wil get the HD spencer lowe parts to fix this now. I added a idler arm brace and a rancho steering damper today as well.

I added energy urethane bushings to the rear swaybar today as well and could feel a nice differene. I'll proably add swaybar quick release end links so I can swtich between on road and off road set ups quickly. I think my road racing background makes me more sensitve to changes, I can't belive you can't feel a difference!

When I took my rear shocks out, I could bottom out the suspension by just bouncing on the bumper without much effort! I can't belive you can bairly feel the difference.


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

My first vehicle, and one where I learned much of what I know about suspensions and bushings, was an '84 Olds Cutlass (RWD). It came stock with heavy duty stabilizer bars (32mm front, 20mm rear) and if one of those was missing, you KNEW it. One of the stock endlinks broke on the front bar, and I removed both until I could replace them, and the thing drove like a boat! There was a dramatic difference. I replaced the endlinks and used polygraphite bushings and was happy with the results. Combined with polygraphite bushings in the A-arms, that car handled like it was on rails. But, not having zerk fittings for lubrication, the A-arm bushings seemed to be binding with the mounting bolts or the A-arms or both. Based on that, and from comments from owners of similar cars (like the Buick Grand National), we decided that polygraphite bushings aren't the best choice for rotational applications (like control arm bushings, stabilizer bar bushings, etc.), especially if no grease fitting is provided. We did, however, recognize the improved performance over rubber in compressional applications (like stabilizer bar endlinks, body mount bushings, etc.).

On the Nissan pickup (at least the '95 model), there's only one stabilizer bar (the front) and in my opinion, it's way under-sized to do the job correctly. However, I understand the engineers' desire to salvage at least some front suspension articulation, so I'm sure the bar diameter (and strength) was kept lower to accomplish that. After all, it's a truck, not a Z car, right?! The trucks have a relatively high center of gravity and tend to lean more in corners anyway...and the comparatively puny front bar doesn't make much of a difference (on my truck). I removed it to get the most articulation I could with the stock suspension. On the street, the results are about a wash. Sure, it does lean a bit more, especially if I try to take a corner on two wheels, but on the other hand the ride is noticeably smoother, since a large bump on one side doesn't appreciably affect the other anymore. This extends to off the highway. Whereas before, the stabilizer bar did its best to keep the front suspension travel equal (and made the back do all the articulating); with it gone the front wheels are now allowed to do follow the contour of the land relatively independent of each other and the truck seems more balanced during times of high suspension flex. I didn't find a quick disconnect kit for the front of the Nissan truck during a casual Internet search, so I did the free fix and simply removed the bar.  We had a Grand Cherokee that we took on two Jeep Jamborees, and never did get a quick disconnect kit for it, although I think it would have made a whale of a difference. It only RTI'd a 300 or 400, but kept pulling up the ramp due to the stock LSD. I have a picture of it, with the left rear wheel about 2 feet in the air, the left front hanging on for dear life to that ramp! 

We did quite a bit of 4-wheeling this weekend in the Nissan and I do recognize that as long as I drive responsibly (ie, keeping the speed commensurate with the trail), the ride is comfortable. I would eventually like to lift it just a little bit...and get a set of torsion bars 20-30% stiffer than stock. I think the Rancho 9000s should be my first move. I have a feeling I should have went with those from the get-go. I think the 5000s are just not valved stiff enough, and unfortunately, there's no apparatus for adjustment with these. Shocks or not, I couldn't dream of bottoming either end of my truck with just my weight (at a paltry 230 lbs.). Of course I have leaves in the back vs. coils, but even so, I've never had a car that I could do that with.


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

I kept thinking about the wheel travel issue, and came up with this diagram I did in AutoCAD:

http://jadcock.oldsgmail.com/nissan/frontsuspension.gif

All dimensions are pretty accurate, if the shapes aren't. For instance, the lower bump stop isn't a perfect circle, but mine IS at least 2 inches tall. Having mapped out the suspension's full swing range, I think it's obvious some improvements can be made, and I'm pretty sure the aftermarket wishbones make these improvements. For example, the 3" suspension lifts come with new upper wishbones, and I can see why -- they're probably arced a bit "upward" compared to the stock ones for increased downward travel, after the wheels are already 3 inches farther from the truck frame. According to what I estimated in the diagrams, I only have close to 3.5" of total wheel travel, assuming the bump stops are rock hard. And I know they'll give a little, but it really showed me where improvements can be made. I can see here where the foam stops can help, especially on a sharp upward jounce.

If anyone wants to discuss what I've done, I'm more than welcome to discussion, but it's not really necessary. I like to think out loud and in this case, it's digitally "on paper", so I figured I'd share what I drew and learned. Looks like with any lift I do (either cranking the torsion bars a little bit or getting stiffer ones), I should complement that with new upper wishbones.


----------



## BFinlay (Apr 20, 2003)

wouldnt stiffer torsion bars just increase the compression travel slightly while decreasing the exstention travel slightly. while not effecting the overall travel.

and the diagrams helped alot with visualizing whats going on.

Brian


----------



## mookie (Feb 27, 2003)

You guys are right on about the 5000's. Great for the street and loads, but on the trail, they just didn't have it. From the AC board, personal experience, and from what I've seen with the local Nissan 4x4 club, the front ends of the Hardbodys and Pathfinders just tend to bounce alot...especially up hills. This usually results in bent tierod ends and a nice worn centerlink. If you have an Idler arm brace, the damage isn't as severe. Those of us with cranked T-bars (front end lifts and tires larger than 31's) and 5000's had the most problems. The 9000 guys (I too should have spent the extra money on the 9000's and saved myself from some hairy moments) were able to keep the front end down, keep traction and safely continue on the trail. A few times I would have to winch backwards down the hill. It also helped out alot when I trimmed my upper bump stops down to give me another .5" of travel. But those were the days of IFS, so no longer a problem anymore. 

Good luck on the plans guys.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *I kept thinking about the wheel travel issue, and came up with this diagram I did in AutoCAD:
> 
> http://jadcock.oldsgmail.com/nissan/frontsuspension.gif
> 
> ...


My front suspension has about 8" of total front wheel travel, about 5" in compression and 3 in droop. I used a ultra thin energy upper bump stop and the foam lower bump stop. I have around 10" in the rear. What I mean about is making some assumptions on how much the bump stops compress.

I swear the ride is plush and it still leans considerably less than stock in the turns. AC in Florida sells Pathfinder swaybar quick disconnects. Most Nissan off road sights are linked to them.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

BFinlay said:


> *wouldnt stiffer torsion bars just increase the compression travel slightly while decreasing the exstention travel slightly. while not effecting the overall travel.
> 
> and the diagrams helped alot with visualizing whats going on.
> 
> Brian *


No they don't affect the travel at all, just the wheel rate.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

mookie said:


> *You guys are right on about the 5000's. Great for the street and loads, but on the trail, they just didn't have it. From the AC board, personal experience, and from what I've seen with the local Nissan 4x4 club, the front ends of the Hardbodys and Pathfinders just tend to bounce alot...especially up hills. This usually results in bent tierod ends and a nice worn centerlink. If you have an Idler arm brace, the damage isn't as severe. Those of us with cranked T-bars (front end lifts and tires larger than 31's) and 5000's had the most problems. The 9000 guys (I too should have spent the extra money on the 9000's and saved myself from some hairy moments) were able to keep the front end down, keep traction and safely continue on the trail. A few times I would have to winch backwards down the hill. It also helped out alot when I trimmed my upper bump stops down to give me another .5" of travel. But those were the days of IFS, so no longer a problem anymore.
> 
> Good luck on the plans guys.  *


After disasmbling the suspension this weekend when installing the goodies, I noticed that the steering componets of the pathfinder appear to be under built for hard core off road. Domestics are much beefyier. I also noticed that the idler arm bushings and center link end links were shot, surprising considering that I am not a hard core off road guy. I mostly like to play Pro-Rally on dirt roads, not trail drive or bolder crawl. I added a idler arm brace but the amount of play in the center link and idler are were disturbing.

I did a little research and found that most people who are hardcore offoraders find that the steering is the weak link on these vehicles. So I ordered some bronze bushings for the idler arm from Spencer Low Racing and a new center link from Nissan. Spenser Low sells a bullet proof steering system for Pathfinders and hardbodys with extreamly heavy duty centerlinks, tie rods pitman and idler arms but its nearly $1000 and considering the type of off orading I like, I didnt think it was worth it.

Mike


----------



## mookie (Feb 27, 2003)

Yes, even the 720's and the 2WD Hardbodys front end Geometry is much better set up than the 4wd. 
That's the only downfall of these W21's series is the weak front end for more heavy 4wd use. Other than that like you describe, it a great ride for moderate trails etc. Calmini also has the new steering set but like slr, very pricey. Not worth it unless you are doing more heavy trails, hardcore. When I had my IFS, I just kept using the old Junkyard centerlinks to get me by. Someone had posted on another board that NAPA had a lifetime warranty on the centerlinks. You can't get that up here, but maybe in your area if that's still available?


----------



## mookie (Feb 27, 2003)

Mike, what are your thoughts on just a drop in K&N filter when on very dusty roads?

I've read that one should just use a paper filter when on extremely dusty roads/trails, and then I've read that the oil will do it's job...?


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

mookie said:


> *Mike, what are your thoughts on just a drop in K&N filter when on very dusty roads?
> 
> I've read that one should just use a paper filter when on extremely dusty roads/trails, and then I've read that the oil will do it's job...? *


A stock filter has about 99% filtering efficency and a K&N is at about 97%, a little bit worse. I put a panty hose over my JWT POP charger when going off road and spray a little k&n oil on it, I don't have proof that this works super good but it seems like it does.

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *My front suspension has about 8" of total front wheel travel, about 5" in compression and 3 in droop. I used a ultra thin energy upper bump stop and the foam lower bump stop. I have around 10" in the rear. What I mean about is making some assumptions on how much the bump stops compress.
> 
> I swear the ride is plush and it still leans considerably less than stock in the turns. AC in Florida sells Pathfinder swaybar quick disconnects. Most Nissan off road sights are linked to them.
> 
> Mike *


Mike, can you elaborate on the mods to your front suspension? Is the only modification to the suspension the different bump stops? I searched through 4x4parts.com last night (that's AC right?) and only saw the rear quick disconnects for the pre-96 Pathfinders. They also have front ones for 96-later Pathys, but I believe these would be significantly different from the 95-down Hardbody/Pathfinder front suspension.

Thanks,


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *Mike, can you elaborate on the mods to your front suspension? Is the only modification to the suspension the different bump stops? I searched through 4x4parts.com last night (that's AC right?) and only saw the rear quick disconnects for the pre-96 Pathfinders. They also have front ones for 96-later Pathys, but I believe these would be significantly different from the 95-down Hardbody/Pathfinder front suspension.
> 
> Thanks, *


Front suspension has Rancho 9000 shocks with the remote adjusting option, Nissan Motorsports torsion bars, Energy upper and lower control arm bushings, AC lower foam bump stops, Energy ultra low profile upper bump stops, AC idler arm brace, Rancho steering damper, Nissan Motorsports front sway bar and bushings, Spencer low idler arm bushings. The ride height is set so I am about 3/4 inch off the upper bump stop which is about 3" higher than it was (my stock torsion bars really sagged)

Stock the front suspension has 7" of travel which is increased by the lower upper bump stop and the much more compressable lower bump stop so I now have about 8". The suspension feels plush over big bumps, not harsh and hard bottoming like it did stock. The most extreme thing I did so far was jumping off curbs, didnt take it off road yet but its better on big bumps and hits than my Neighboor 3" lifted Procomp suspension S10 and his dads 5' lifted dual fox shock F250 SD so I guess its not too shabby. I think I could dust either of those trucks on a fast dirt road.

I didnt want to raise the car much because I like to drive fast on dirt roads pro rally style, I don't bolder crawl or do harder than intermediate trails. I don't want it to be tippy or highside, I want it to handle well and I am willing to sacrifice ground clearance to do it.

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *The ride height is set so I am about 3/4 inch off the upper bump stop which is about 3" higher than it was (my stock torsion bars really sagged)*


Thanks for that elaboration. This is where my suspension seems odd to me. I don't have near that much travel, and I think they're supposed to be the same (Pathfinder vs. Hardbody). I wonder if my lower bump stop is not stock? As you can see from the diagram, I'm less than an inch from the lower wishbone bump stop and just over an inch from the upper wishbone bump stop, so it seems that I have no where near the same travel as yours does. I wonder what the major difference is. If my lower bump stop was a lot smaller, I could easily set the ride height higher to center it between the two stops. But as it is, I'm about an inch from the upper and I only have less than an inch between the lower as well.

I'm going to check out the foam lower stops from AC. I think I'll purchase those first. Got any experience/recommendations regarding the ball joint spacers? That seems like a good economical way to alter the ride height and suspension travel slightly while keeping everything mostly stock.

Thanks again,


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *Thanks for that elaboration. This is where my suspension seems odd to me. I don't have near that much travel, and I think they're supposed to be the same (Pathfinder vs. Hardbody). I wonder if my lower bump stop is not stock? As you can see from the diagram, I'm less than an inch from the lower wishbone bump stop and just over an inch from the upper wishbone bump stop, so it seems that I have no where near the same travel as yours does. I wonder what the major difference is. If my lower bump stop was a lot smaller, I could easily set the ride height higher to center it between the two stops. But as it is, I'm about an inch from the upper and I only have less than an inch between the lower as well.
> 
> I'm going to check out the foam lower stops from AC. I think I'll purchase those first. Got any experience/recommendations regarding the ball joint spacers? That seems like a good economical way to alter the ride height and suspension travel slightly while keeping everything mostly stock.
> 
> Thanks again, *


The think you might just have to simply crank up your torsion bars some? I think most people run them slightly past center towards the top out bump stop where yours seems to be just the other way. Remember, a small change here makes a big difference in travel because the motion ratio is around 2:1, so if you get it about 1/2" higher off of the pump stop, you gain over an inch of wheel travel. 

I belive that the pathfinder and hardbody have the same front suspension with the main differences being torsion bar diameter and sway bar diameter.

The AC bump stops are taller than the stock ones but are intialy very soft, you can squish them with your hands. As far as ball joint spacers, I don't think you need them unless you are really raised up so as to where you are running the ball joints at a bad angle. I don't think mine is at that point.

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *The AC bump stops are taller than the stock ones but are intialy very soft, you can squish them with your hands. As far as ball joint spacers, I don't think you need them unless you are really raised up so as to where you are running the ball joints at a bad angle. I don't think mine is at that point.*


Okay, thanks. I looked at the AC bump stops (the big foam ones) and you're right -- they're at least 1/2 taller than my rubber ones (I don't know if mine are stock or not, they're 2" thick). I didn't initially think those would work good, but remembered about the option for thinner upper stops.

I'm going to get either the ultra low- or low-profile upper bump stops from Energy (what is the P/N that you have, if it's not too much trouble to find, I found many P/Ns on their site and want to make sure I get one that will work properly). After I do that, I'll set the torsion bars to about 3/4" off the upper bump stop and see where I am at that point. As yours sits, with the AC foam lower stops, how far is your lower bump stop from the frame pad? I'd like to get a baseline to work off of.

Thanks again,


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *Okay, thanks. I looked at the AC bump stops (the big foam ones) and you're right -- they're at least 1/2 taller than my rubber ones (I don't know if mine are stock or not, they're 2" thick). I didn't initially think those would work good, but remembered about the option for thinner upper stops.
> 
> I'm going to get either the ultra low- or low-profile upper bump stops from Energy (what is the P/N that you have, if it's not too much trouble to find, I found many P/Ns on their site and want to make sure I get one that will work properly). After I do that, I'll set the torsion bars to about 3/4" off the upper bump stop and see where I am at that point. As yours sits, with the AC foam lower stops, how far is your lower bump stop from the frame pad? I'd like to get a baseline to work off of.
> 
> Thanks again, *


I forget what the part number was, I ordered them from Energy directly. I don't have the car here but the height was about 3/4" off the upper stop and 1/2" off the lower. The lower is taller but its very soft and squishy.

This weekend I put in the reomte shock adjuster kit. The Rancho shcoks have gotten stiffer with some use and I have to adjust them softer. The triple tube design pumps any air to the outer tube and I belive the shocks had air throuout the tubes since they were lying sideways. It toook a couple of days use to pump the air to the outer tube and now they are much firmer. I proably have to soften them a few clicks.

Spencer Low racing has a trick steering system that eliminates bumpsteer, eliminates the funky loose feeling center link design and is unbreakable.

I might go to this and their stage 5 system later. The stage 5 system has fabricated box section arms, zero bump steer geomtery, remote resouair shock, has 12" of wheel travel and widens the track 3". I am getting sick ideas of a Pro-Rally Pathfinder now.

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *I forget what the part number was, I ordered them from Energy directly. I don't have the car here but the height was about 3/4" off the upper stop and 1/2" off the lower. The lower is taller but its very soft and squishy.*


Got it. I figured the lower foam stop would compress at least an inch pretty easily, so I used 1-1/2" as the height for that instead of 2-1/2", like it actually is. I'm excited to get the new stops and to adjust the ride height to about 1/2 to an inch higher.

I'll go searching for that Spencer Low Racing steering solution. I've seen Calmini's before and it looks high quality, but it's also high dollar. I'm sure SLR's is at least as much. I guess if you wanna play, you gotta pay.


----------



## Mansier (Mar 1, 2003)

*Horsepower!!!*

I know I can build a VG30E with 260 hp and 240 lb/ft of torque which is more than a 5.0 Ford or a 4.6 SOHC modular motor which comes in many half ton trucks. It just might work and save me a bunch of money and space. 

Mike


Please tell me more about this. I need more power! What mods would make for a 260hp/240tq VG30E? Any information would be great!

LM


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

*Re: Horsepower!!!*




Mansier said:


> *I know I can build a VG30E with 260 hp and 240 lb/ft of torque which is more than a 5.0 Ford or a 4.6 SOHC modular motor which comes in many half ton trucks. It just might work and save me a bunch of money and space.
> 
> Mike
> 
> ...


A low buck motor would be to use Q45 VH45 pistons in a VG33E blockwhich gives about 9.7:1 compression up from 8.8:1 and are 88mm bore for 3.4 liters. Do a little pocket and match porting, use JWT cams and run SLR or Doug Thorley Headers, top off with a JWT ECU. Run a 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust with peforated core straight through mufflers. Use JWT's POP charger filter replacing the rubber zip pipe with a smooth mandrel bent piece and makes a cold air dam in the engine compartment. This gives just under 260 hp.

For towing it might be better to run Nissan Motorsports 262 cams and give up a few top end hp to get better midrange torque.

NASA rules!

Mike


----------



## Mansier (Mar 1, 2003)

Thank you! So the same heads, but with the 262 cam. Same rods as the VG33? Everything is a shortblock VG33 but the pistons right? Great! If I could even get just over 200hp with a bunch of torque I would be thrilled. I know what I'm doing when I get back from the track this weekend!

LM


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Mansier said:


> *Thank you! So the same heads, but with the 262 cam. Same rods as the VG33? Everything is a shortblock VG33 but the pistons right? Great! If I could even get just over 200hp with a bunch of torque I would be thrilled. I know what I'm doing when I get back from the track this weekend!
> 
> LM *


Basicaly you want to put a VG30 crank, oil pump and front pulley in a VG33 motor. This is so your accesory drives stay the same because the nose of a VG30 crank is smaller and the pulley diameter and offset is way different.

The real trick setup is to machine down the VG33 nose slightly and bore up the VG30 pulley slightly so you gain the advantages of a bigger nose (the VG30 tended to bend if you went off on it to much) A lot of the class 7 off road racing guys do this but this is getting minorly esoteric.

Even quick and dirty with no headwork and the 262 cams the hybrid VG makes over 220 hp and nearly 250 ft lbs of torque. Running with 87 octane is borderline so you probably have to tow running 92 but you can run around normaly on 87. That power is in the leage of a 5.0 liter ford or the 4.6 modular motor found on 1/2 ton trucks.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *Got it. I figured the lower foam stop would compress at least an inch pretty easily, so I used 1-1/2" as the height for that instead of 2-1/2", like it actually is. I'm excited to get the new stops and to adjust the ride height to about 1/2 to an inch higher.
> *


THe upper stops are a PITA to do, gotta put a long box wrench in their and turn them out by hand then tighten like 1/8 turn at a time.

Remember I was telling you about the shocks getting stiffer with use? I ended up going down to 3 front and 2 rear to get the plushness back.

The suspension is pretty amazing, you can hang turns like a car, in fact I think this Pathfiner probably pulls like .80 g's in a turn. I am pretty surpised, its actualy fun to drive and I am a big time SUV hater. I don't think it will flip unless she highsides.

My wife is having fun, trying to get people to follow her closely on streets where she knows there are big dips, hitting them without slowing down and watching sparks from the other cars undercarrages fly in her mirrors.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *Thanks for that elaboration. This is where my suspension seems odd to me. I don't have near that much travel, and I think they're supposed to be the same (Pathfinder vs. Hardbody). I wonder if my lower bump stop is not stock? As you can see from the diagram, I'm less than an inch from the lower wishbone bump stop and just over an inch from the upper wishbone bump stop, so it seems that I have no where near the same travel as yours does. I wonder what the major difference is. If my lower bump stop was a lot smaller, I could easily set the ride height higher to center it between the two stops. But as it is, I'm about an inch from the upper and I only have less than an inch between the lower as well.
> 
> I'm going to check out the foam lower stops from AC. I think I'll purchase those first. Got any experience/recommendations regarding the ball joint spacers? That seems like a good economical way to alter the ride height and suspension travel slightly while keeping everything mostly stock.
> 
> Thanks again, *


I rasied the car somemore and am now about 1/2 inch off of my upper bump stop with no evidence of bounding off the upper stop. When researching on some Pathfinder boards, some guys raise it towithin 1/4 of an inch but that might be a little much.

Got my alignment all set but I can only get 3/4 of a degree negative and a couple of degrees positive caster and a touch of toe. In a hard turn it understeers at first and progresses to slow oversteer.

I think you can definatly raise your truck at least to this point safely.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Mansier said:


> *Thank you! So the same heads, but with the 262 cam. Same rods as the VG33? Everything is a shortblock VG33 but the pistons right? Great! If I could even get just over 200hp with a bunch of torque I would be thrilled. I know what I'm doing when I get back from the track this weekend!
> 
> LM *


Exactly the pistons and cams are the biggest bang for the buck. The shortblock needs to get your stock pully adapted to it by turning down the crnak snout and boring out the pulley so your accsory drives fit.

Either that or use your VG30 oil pump, pulley and crank.

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *I rasied the car somemore and am now about 1/2 inch off of my upper bump stop with no evidence of bounding off the upper stop. When researching on some Pathfinder boards, some guys raise it towithin 1/4 of an inch but that might be a little much.
> *


I just put mine to just about centered between the stops now, with the new low profile upper stops (see details and pics here http://jadcock.oldsgmail.com/nissan/torsionbars/index.html). When I order the AC foam lowers and install them, I'll probably re-center everything between them then, since the foam ones are a bit taller than stock. I figure I'll then be about an inch taller than factory height probably, with improved suspension travel and isolation (with that foam lower) and room for 31" tires when the current ones wear out.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *I just put mine to just about centered between the stops now, with the new low profile upper stops (see details and pics here http://jadcock.oldsgmail.com/nissan/torsionbars/index.html). When I order the AC foam lowers and install them, I'll probably re-center everything between them then, since the foam ones are a bit taller than stock. I figure I'll then be about an inch taller than factory height probably, with improved suspension travel and isolation (with that foam lower) and room for 31" tires when the current ones wear out. *


Mine is still higher in the adjustment. Its slightly less than centered with the taller soft AC bumpstops. It sits 1/2-3/4" from the top low profile bump stop.

I put the remote shock in-cabin adjusting kit in today. The suspension is amazing. Even on full soft, it still corners well and doesnt float. Up to level 4 its totaly plush. I can hit huge dips in the road at 50 mph and you bairly feel them.

The on fly adjustment is cool and the range is much greater than the stock SE shocks where you can bairly feel a difference.

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *Mine is still higher in the adjustment. Its slightly less than centered with the taller soft AC bumpstops. It sits 1/2-3/4" from the top low profile bump stop.
> 
> I put the remote shock in-cabin adjusting kit in today. The suspension is amazing. Even on full soft, it still corners well and doesnt float. Up to level 4 its totaly plush. I can hit huge dips in the road at 50 mph and you bairly feel them.*


I'll re-center mine after I get the new AC lower stops. Maybe I'll even put it a bit higher, like yours, to within about 3/4" from the top stop. Do you have the same upper stop that I have? I saw both "ultra low profile" and "low profile". Mine are the "low profile" ones...the only ones Pep Boys had in stock. If I wanted the "ultra" ones, I'd have to mail order those I guess.

I'll take mine out for a ride today to see if I can feel any differences. It may have been bottoming before and I just didn't realize it, and that may have been the harshness. I'll see. I think my ultimate "fix" would be the 9000 shocks, though. That'll have to wait a while. I think I'd purchase my 31" tires first (mainly to get the aggressive tread pattern I think I want).

So many cool things for the truck + wife = not much money for cool things for the truck.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> *I'll re-center mine after I get the new AC lower stops. Maybe I'll even put it a bit higher, like yours, to within about 3/4" from the top stop. Do you have the same upper stop that I have? I saw both "ultra low profile" and "low profile". Mine are the "low profile" ones...the only ones Pep Boys had in stock. If I wanted the "ultra" ones, I'd have to mail order those I guess.
> 
> I'll take mine out for a ride today to see if I can feel any differences. It may have been bottoming before and I just didn't realize it, and that may have been the harshness. I'll see. I think my ultimate "fix" would be the 9000 shocks, though. That'll have to wait a while. I think I'd purchase my 31" tires first (mainly to get the aggressive tread pattern I think I want).
> 
> So many cool things for the truck + wife = not much money for cool things for the truck.  *


I am using the low profile uppers and from the pictures mine look identical to yours except the color, mine are red. Man are those things a bitch to get out!

You can make the 9000's really stiff but there is no float even on full soft. I wonder if your 5000 are blown out or bad somehow. My buddy has 5000's on his Pathfinder and they seem to work well. His setup is nearly identical to mine other than the shocks.

I bet you were bottoming. Yours should ride even softer than mine with the softer torsion bars.

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

Mike, actually, I think the ride is indeed better. I can't believe it was bottoming before, but I can't explain the better ride after the adjustment any other way. The ride even feels more controlled now. I wonder if I was wearing a "soft" spot into the shocks and now they're stiffer now that I'm out of that range. Or maybe the truck is now closer to designed ride and the shocks work better here?

I thought the original Monroes were bad when I had them. The ride was bouncier with them than with the original Nissan shocks I took off it. I completely removed them and was shocked (pun intended) to find the ride wasn't that much different. The Ranchos made a big difference in the ride, but it still wasn't what I would have expected with Ranchos. I always imagined them as real "stiff off-roading shocks", but after studying their advertising and packaging literature, it appears that they're designed similar to the Monroe Sensa-Traks, that is they have a softer spot right near curb height for a "smooth" ride on the highway, then getting progressively stiffer as travel increases. The result of this, on my Nissan anyway, seems to be not enough resistance at normal highway ride. Seems a "linear" shock is what I need, if I were to change out shocks AGAIN (I don't plan to). Stiffer is a must, adjustability is a plus. Easy choice: Rancho 9000.

Again, adjusting the ride height up yesterday seemed to help the "problem". I'd love to get new torsion bars, though. Yours are newer than stock (not sagging) and are stronger than stock, so they're not tensioned nearly as much as my stock softer sagging bars are (really cranked just to achieve stock height). I think my ride would improve considerably with stronger bars (or at least NEW stock bars).

Again, next move in the near future is the AC foam stops (and adjusting the ride accordingly). Long term is 31" tires, either Michelin, BFG, or Bridgestone. Will cross that bridge when I get there. I don't plan a lift, certainly not before I get a few other things squared away first (like fixing some rust, replacing a ball joint or two in the front end). I also want to install a steering solution (Calmini, SLR, etc) before I lift too much further.

Thanks for your help on this...


----------



## Guest (Nov 11, 2003)

*Engine swap*

Mike

First off, way to go doing a build up on a Pathfinder Ive never seen or heard of one being done so this is great news. 

Now my question is why dont you go with a engine swap from a 2001-2003 Pathfinder? Wouldnt this be the better route to go or is it to expensive? Or is the new engine not as good as the 95 engine?

Thanks and good luck

Nicholas


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

*Re: Engine swap*



chevel67ni said:


> *Mike
> 
> First off, way to go doing a build up on a Pathfinder Ive never seen or heard of one being done so this is great news.
> 
> ...


It is a good motor but its not a direct bolt on and the motors are expensive. This is a quick and simple project car thats just intended as my tow vehicle, fun hauler, not a ultimate project car.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

*Where would you like the Project to head?*

Do you guys like the current way I am going things to the suspension, like heavy duty mild off road, good on road, or would you like to eventualy see something more radical, like a 13" travel prerunner sort of thing.

More suspension work is coming as is motor mods and a complete 240 hp motor build up.

Mike


----------



## nissannut (Jul 3, 2003)

morepower2 said:


> Do you guys like the current way I am going things to the suspension, like heavy duty mild off road, good on road, or would you like to eventualy see something more radical, like a 13" travel prerunner sort of thing.
> 
> More suspension work is coming as is motor mods and a complete 240 hp motor build up.
> 
> Mike



I am in for anything.. I highly reccomend the AC (4x4parts.com) polys in the suspension... I also have there 2inch coils. But I know your not interested in lift.

Thanks, :thumbup:


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

nissannut said:


> I am in for anything.. I highly reccomend the AC (4x4parts.com) polys in the suspension... I also have there 2inch coils. But I know your not interested in lift.
> 
> Thanks, :thumbup:


Allready have that stuff, looks in the december issue of NPM! You must have read my mind!

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> Mike, actually, I think the ride is indeed better. I can't believe it was bottoming before, but I can't explain the better ride after the adjustment any other way. The ride even feels more controlled now. I wonder if I was wearing a "soft" spot into the shocks and now they're stiffer now that I'm out of that range. Or maybe the truck is now closer to designed ride and the shocks work better here?
> 
> I thought the original Monroes were bad when I had them. The ride was bouncier with them than with the original Nissan shocks I took off it. I completely removed them and was shocked (pun intended) to find the ride wasn't that much different. The Ranchos made a big difference in the ride, but it still wasn't what I would have expected with Ranchos. I always imagined them as real "stiff off-roading shocks", but after studying their advertising and packaging literature, it appears that they're designed similar to the Monroe Sensa-Traks, that is they have a softer spot right near curb height for a "smooth" ride on the highway, then getting progressively stiffer as travel increases. The result of this, on my Nissan anyway, seems to be not enough resistance at normal highway ride. Seems a "linear" shock is what I need, if I were to change out shocks AGAIN (I don't plan to). Stiffer is a must, adjustability is a plus. Easy choice: Rancho 9000.
> 
> ...


Jason,

The only shocks that have position senstive damping are some of the true off road racing shocks like bilstien and king racing series shocks with external bleeds. The sense a tracks and 5000's simply have whats called a blow off valve that lets the shock respond better to sharp hits. Actualy a lot of shocks have this nowdays.

I figured out why the RSX 9000's fell so much better than the 5000's, I called up one of my buddies who is an engineer at Tennico (the companmy that makes Rancho) and he said the 9000's have a new type of valve they call an ASD valve. Basicaly it works on inertia moving a weighted valve that is held up on springs. When you hit a bump, the sharp impact causes the valve to open and allow a lot of oil flow and the shock is free to move and respond to a bump. A sharp bump makes the shock body move fast but the weighted valve on springs wants to stay in the same spot so the shock body moves in relationship to the valve. This exposes a bleed orface and lets more oil flow. Lean in turns, big dips and dive under braking are slower movements and the valve stays shut giving much more damping and control in turns and under braking.

So the shock can be valved really stiff to handle big dips, dive and roll under cornering but the ASD valve opens when sharp bumps like railroad tracks and potholes are hit so the ride can be smooth. The ASD valve works a lot faster and to a bigger extreame than the old style blow off valves.

Mike


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

Mike, thanks for the info update on the Rancho shocks. I agree that the 9000 series shocks are leaps and bounds better than the 5000s. Dad had a set on his F-550 and liked them a lot. If I ever have to replace the rears (I'm happy with the Monroes now I think), I'll put 9000s on there. Fronts will have to wait a while until I can justify new ones...just put the 5000s on there.


----------



## 92PathSE (Jan 11, 2004)

I sent somebody an email about the project a little while ago...and now I notice this thread. Oh well. 

I have about ~8" travel up front, but all I did was let the tire come up further into the well. Any more down travel and I'd be breaking CVs offroad. 

I got some Rancho 9000s(not 9000x...mine are just 5-way adj) in the back and I like them alot. They are longer than stock cause I was maxing out the stock ones. 

My front chocks are the stock adjustable ones and they are about dead. I'll probably buy stock length 5000s or RSX soon.

I can't wait to see the engine mods you're doing. I've always wanted to adapt some Z31 VG30E parts to mine, but I'll see how yours does first. What kinda TB are you going to use?


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

92PathSE said:


> I sent somebody an email about the project a little while ago...and now I notice this thread. Oh well.
> 
> I have about ~8" travel up front, but all I did was let the tire come up further into the well. Any more down travel and I'd be breaking CVs offroad.
> 
> ...


Basicaly the Z31 parts are no better than the Pathfinder stuff. I am proably going to use a bored out stock throttle body or maybe a 240SX one, 60mm.

Mike


----------



## Guest (Jan 14, 2004)

*need more power....*

Hey,

Just gotta say that I love my 95 Pathfinder. Nothing besides routine maintenance and I'm at 105k....well, so far. I think I need new front lower ball joints.

Anyway, I'm anxiously awaiting the engine segment of your project. Mainly b/c the ONLY problem for me with this vehicle is that it's underpowered. OK, well, the steering is getting worse too. 

Also, can you give cost estimates for the work that you're doing? At least parts cost would be nice. I've been trying to get ahold of those wheels and am having a hard time. Can I do the same thing with 15"x8.5?

Thanks and good luck!

Dweeg


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Dweeg said:


> Hey,
> 
> Just gotta say that I love my 95 Pathfinder. Nothing besides routine maintenance and I'm at 105k....well, so far. I think I need new front lower ball joints.
> 
> ...


Call Eddie Lee at Mackin Industries and he can direct you to your closest dealer. 562 946-6820 ex 115

The parts cost can be obtained by calling the dealers for the parts or visitingtheir websights.

Mike


----------



## wufinder (Mar 1, 2004)

*Where do I get Nissan Motorsports Springs?*

Hey Mike
I have a 90 Pathfinder with 31x10.5" tires, and I believe the torsion bars have sagged a little bit, cause there is major rubbage. I plan on lifting it 1" both front and rear, I just wanted to know where to get the springs that you got for project Pathfinder.
Thanks
Kenny


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

wufinder said:


> Hey Mike
> I have a 90 Pathfinder with 31x10.5" tires, and I believe the torsion bars have sagged a little bit, cause there is major rubbage. I plan on lifting it 1" both front and rear, I just wanted to know where to get the springs that you got for project Pathfinder.
> Thanks
> Kenny


I got them from Nissan Motorsports. You can get Nissan Motorsports parts from Cortesy Nissan or Performance Nissan.

Mike


----------



## nissannut (Jul 3, 2003)

wufinder said:


> Hey Mike
> I have a 90 Pathfinder with 31x10.5" tires, and I believe the torsion bars have sagged a little bit, cause there is major rubbage. I plan on lifting it 1" both front and rear, I just wanted to know where to get the springs that you got for project Pathfinder.
> Thanks
> Kenny


You shoud not have any rubbing with stock size tires 31x10.5. If you have stock 15x7 rims. Tbars will not prevent rubbing. They will just firm up the ride and maintain the stock hieght longer. You can reindex your bars. :thumbup:


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

nissannut said:


> You shoud not have any rubbing with stock size tires 31x10.5. If you have stock 15x7 rims. Tbars will not prevent rubbing. They will just firm up the ride and maintain the stock hieght longer. You can reindex your bars. :thumbup:


If he has wider wheels which you sorta need with 10.5's you may rub very slightly in the wheel wells. I rubbed just a little bit stock and once I got the suspension it has never rubbed. The rubbing occurs when your wheel is turned and hit a bump. Rasing changes the geometry enough so it won't rub.

Mike


----------



## wufinder (Mar 1, 2004)

*nismo springs*

Thanks guys for the quick response, I called Boulder Nissan today, they said there are two sizes of springs for the rear from the Nissan motorsport catalog. I can't remember the sizes, but I'm going to go in tomorrow and pick up some other parts. Mike about how much were your rear springs, and do you remeber the specs on them? Also do you recommend the stiffer torsion bars?
Thanks


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

wufinder said:


> Thanks guys for the quick response, I called Boulder Nissan today, they said there are two sizes of springs for the rear from the Nissan motorsport catalog. I can't remember the sizes, but I'm going to go in tomorrow and pick up some other parts. Mike about how much were your rear springs, and do you remeber the specs on them? Also do you recommend the stiffer torsion bars?
> Thanks


They have a 1" and 3" lift, I have the 1" lift. I think the torsion bars are vary important, If most pathfinders are like mine, the stock ones sag real bad. I can't belive how the suspension changes I did transformedthe Pathfinder, it handles like a sports car now and takes bumps off road 100% better.

I used to hate driving the wifes car but now I take it all the time because its so much fun.

Mike


----------



## wufinder (Mar 1, 2004)

Thanks Mike,
I ordered the springs for the rear and the idler arm brace from AC. Hope to have it lifted, with the torsion bars cranked a little bit before the end of the month.
Kenny


----------



## becool323 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Give me Power or give me boredom!*

Ok, I'm super jealous. Icy hot stunta keeps talking about these 900hp VG's and I can't even make it up a hill with the AC on in mine. Please talk to me guys. How do I do it. Should I by a VG and work it out whilst I drive? Can I get a hundred extra ponies for $2000.00 or less? I know nothing about how to make ponies in these import jobies. Just give me a little taste of what I can start saving up for. Danka mucho Monsieur!


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

wufinder said:


> Thanks Mike,
> I ordered the springs for the rear and the idler arm brace from AC. Hope to have it lifted, with the torsion bars cranked a little bit before the end of the month.
> Kenny


You might want to get the cushy foam bumpstops as well.  they make bottoming much smoother.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

becool323 said:


> Ok, I'm super jealous. Icy hot stunta keeps talking about these 900hp VG's and I can't even make it up a hill with the AC on in mine. Please talk to me guys. How do I do it. Should I by a VG and work it out whilst I drive? Can I get a hundred extra ponies for $2000.00 or less? I know nothing about how to make ponies in these import jobies. Just give me a little taste of what I can start saving up for. Danka mucho Monsieur!


You can follow my bulid up. Nissan motorsports or JWT cam, DPR headwork, Q45 pistons, 300ZX rods and crank. Doug thortly headers, JWT ECU , Borla exhaust. All good for about 250 hp and 260 ft lbs of torque. As much as many half ton trucks. Stay tuned to NPM for more details.

Mike


----------



## becool323 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Might there be a engine builder in SoCal...*

Thanks for your reply Mike. Do you rebuild these engines or do you have a shop? I would love to work with someone on the build so I can learn at the same time. I plan to take this Pathfinder as far as I (and my wallet) can. I'll stay tuned for now and focus on suspension upgrades. Thanks dude, you rock! 
- John B.


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> You might want to get the cushy foam bumpstops as well. they make bottoming much smoother.


Mike, do I remember correctly -- you have yours running so those foam stops are almost in constant contact with the frame? I'm still interested in purchasing these from AC. Thanks.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jadcock said:


> Mike, do I remember correctly -- you have yours running so those foam stops are almost in constant contact with the frame? I'm still interested in purchasing these from AC. Thanks.


No their is signifcant clearance between the frame and the bumpstop, I am about 1/2" from the top out bumper.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

becool323 said:


> Thanks for your reply Mike. Do you rebuild these engines or do you have a shop? I would love to work with someone on the build so I can learn at the same time. I plan to take this Pathfinder as far as I (and my wallet) can. I'll stay tuned for now and focus on suspension upgrades. Thanks dude, you rock!
> - John B.


I don't build motors for other people, I don't want the liabilty. Technosquare in Torrance is about the only shop I would trust in southern california.

Mike


----------



## maddogfab (Mar 25, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> You can follow my bulid up. Nissan motorsports or JWT cam, DPR headwork, Q45 pistons, 300ZX rods and crank. Doug Thorley headers, JWT ECU , Borla exhaust. All good for about 250 hp and 260 ft lbs of torque. As much as many half ton trucks. Stay tuned to NPM for more details.
> 
> Mike





morepower2 said:


> A low buck motor would be to use Q45 VH45 pistons in a VG33E blockwhich gives about 9.7:1 compression up from 8.8:1 and are 88mm bore for 3.4 liters. Do a little pocket and match porting, use JWT cams and run SLR or Doug Thorley Headers, top off with a JWT ECU. Run a 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust with peforated core straight through mufflers. Use JWT's POP charger filter replacing the rubber zip pipe with a smooth mandrel bent piece and makes a cold air dam in the engine compartment. This gives just under 260 hp.
> 
> For towing it might be better to run Nissan Motorsports 262 cams and give up a few top end hp to get better midrange torque.
> 
> ...





morepower2 said:


> Basicaly you want to put a VG30 crank, oil pump and front pulley in a VG33 motor. This is so your accessory drives stay the same. The nose of a VG30 crank is smaller and the pulley diameter and offset is way different.
> 
> The real trick setup is to machine down the VG33 nose slightly and bore up the VG30 pulley slightly so you gain the advantages of a bigger nose (the VG30 tended to bend if you went off on it to much) A lot of the class 7 off road racing guys do this but this is getting minorly esoteric.
> 
> ...





Mansier said:


> Thank you! So the same heads, but with the 262 cam. Same rods as the VG33? Everything is a shortblock VG33 but the pistons right? Great! If I could even get just over 200hp with a bunch of torque I would be thrilled. I know what I'm doing when I get back from the track this weekend!
> 
> LM





morepower2 said:


> Exactly the pistons and cams are the biggest bang for the buck. The shortblock needs to get your stock pulley adapted to it by turning down the crank snout and boring out the pulley so your accessory drives fit.
> 
> Either that or use your VG30 oil pump, pulley and crank.
> 
> Mike



Hey Mike, 

Thanks for the good info. You mention using z car crank and rods as well. Which motor? I've been looking for a good recipe for a solid VG buildup for my pickup and this sounds like the ticket. I'd like to build one along with you. As many details as you will divulge on this motor are greatly appreciated. I need to start collecting parts. 

By the way. Do you know if there would be a problem using a VG33ER short block to build this motor. 

Thanks, 
Jake

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/9191/92pulquarter01.jpg


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

maddogfab said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> Thanks for the good info. You mention using z car crank and rods as well. Which motor? E, ET DE or DETT? I've been looking for a good recipe for a solid VG buildup for my pickup and this sounds like the ticket. I'd like to build one along with you. As many details as you will divulge on this motor are greatly appreciated. I need to start collecting parts.
> 
> ...


I am using a 300ZXTT crank and rods but its not really needed because the VG33E crank and rods are much strong enough for a fully built NA motor. I just happend to have the twin turbo parts lying around.

I am running 1mm OS flat top Q45 pistons with the valve relifes notched for VG valve locations. This gives 3400cc and 9.8:1 compression.

For Stock VG33 rods you have to have the pin bushing honed out for the Q's larger piston pins. Shoot for 0.0001-0.0003" clearance.

I have a mildly ported DPR cylinder head, Nissan Motorsports cams (JWT has more power, Nissan Motorpsorts has more torque) JWT POP charger, JWT ECU, Doug Thorly Headers, nissan motorsports exhaust.

Mike


----------



## maddogfab (Mar 25, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> I am using a 300ZXTT crank and rods but its not really needed because the VG33E crank and rods are much strong enough for a fully built NA motor. I just happened to have the twin turbo parts lying around.
> 
> I am running 1mm OS flat top Q45 pistons with the valve relifes notched for VG valve locations. This gives 3400cc and 9.8:1 compression.
> 
> ...


Mike, 

I'd like to use the regular VG30E crank to avoid the snout/pulley issue. I have access to a VG33ER long block out of an S/C Xterra. It's been out in the weather for some time but, The bottom end is fine. According to the reference material I have (FAST) the crank and rods in the S/C motor are the same as the N/A VG33. So I should be fine there.

I've already got the headers and exhaust as well as a pop charger.
I've got a spare pair of heads I was thinking of sending out with the intake and having it all extrude honed together.
The other stuff is "on the list".
What injectors should I be looking for? 

Have you begun building this motor yet? If so, What part #'s did you use for the pistons and rings? I'm assuming 3 left pistons and 3 rights and a full set of 8 rings. I don't have any infiniti parts info.

Thanks, 
Jake


----------



## wufinder (Mar 1, 2004)

*Need alignment help*

Hey Mike
I got the Nissan Motorsport Springs in the rear and cranked the t-bars in the front. From your picture on the magazine website, they look almost identical. I took it to the alignment shop the other day, and they don't know what to do besides put in longer bolts to align it back to spec. Mike at AC said since I'm only lifting the truck about a inch or so, to not get the upper control arms from him, he recomends the .5" ball joint spacers. 

What did you do to get your Pathfinder into alignment in the front after the suspension mods?
Thanks 
Kenny


----------



## nissannut (Jul 3, 2003)

wufinder said:


> Hey Mike
> I got the Nissan Motorsport Springs in the rear and cranked the t-bars in the front. From your picture on the magazine website, they look almost identical. I took it to the alignment shop the other day, and they don't know what to do besides put in longer bolts to align it back to spec. Mike at AC said since I'm only lifting the truck about a inch or so, to not get the upper control arms from him, he recomends the .5" ball joint spacers.
> 
> What did you do to get your Pathfinder into alignment in the front after the suspension mods?
> ...



If you are doing a Tbar crank for more lift, higher than stock. you will need new UCAs.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

wufinder said:


> Hey Mike
> I got the Nissan Motorsport Springs in the rear and cranked the t-bars in the front. From your picture on the magazine website, they look almost identical. I took it to the alignment shop the other day, and they don't know what to do besides put in longer bolts to align it back to spec. Mike at AC said since I'm only lifting the truck about a inch or so, to not get the upper control arms from him, he recomends the .5" ball joint spacers.
> 
> What did you do to get your Pathfinder into alignment in the front after the suspension mods?
> ...


It aligned just fine. Its not really raised much higher than stock, its proably on the outer limit of stock ride height. Over the years it had sagged about 3" lower.

You have to watch that you don't go too high and end up against the top out bumper, you gotta stay about 1/2" off of it.

I also wanted a little negative camber so it could get more front end bite in the corners so the camber didnt go back all the way to zero.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

maddogfab said:


> Mike,
> 
> I'd like to use the regular VG30E crank to avoid the snout/pulley issue. I have access to a VG33ER long block out of an S/C Xterra. It's been out in the weather for some time but, The bottom end is fine. According to the reference material I have (FAST) the crank and rods in the S/C motor are the same as the N/A VG33. So I should be fine there.
> 
> ...


I am going to use the stock injectors. They guys at Nissan motorsports said the modifying the intake manifold is onlly good for a few horspower as is a bigger MAF and throttle body, like at the most 5-6 hp. I am leaving mine stock because the truck is my tow vehicle and I don't want to go overboard and get to trick! I have enough problems with my cars.

I used the pistons from an older first gen Q45. The pin is offset you you gotta get the left and right side. You gotta hone your small in of the rod for the bigger pin and you have to keep the fit tight or its gonna make a knocking sound. You also gotta notch the pistons slightly for valve clearance.

The pistons have a anti friction coating on the skirts stock so thats kinda cool. The engine is together but I need to drop it into the chassis.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Here is a picture of the stock VG piston VS the Q45 piston modded with the valve notches.

Mike


----------



## maddogfab (Mar 25, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> I am going to use the stock injectors. They guys at Nissan motorsports said the modifying the intake manifold is onlly good for a few horspower as is a bigger MAF and throttle body, like at the most 5-6 hp. I am leaving mine stock because the truck is my tow vehicle and I don't want to go overboard and get to trick! I have enough problems with my cars.
> 
> I used the pistons from an older first gen Q45. The pin is offset you you gotta get the left and right side. You gotta hone your small in of the rod for the bigger pin and you have to keep the fit tight or its gonna make a knocking sound. You also gotta notch the pistons slightly for valve clearance.
> 
> ...


Mike, 

Ok, leave the intake alone and save the dough. Good advice. My truck is rock solid in the reliability department and I want to preserve that. 

The Q pistons you used were purchased new I'm assuming. I intend to order them myself and part #'s would be very handy. 

I hear ya on the wrist pin clearance. The specs you gave earlier seem really tight. .0001 to .0003 ten thousandths! Really?

Did you do the notches in the pistons by hand with a grinder or did you have your machinist do it? I worry about messing that part up and / or getting them all a little different and screwing up the CC volume per cyl if I do it by hand. 

The ECU will need to be wolfenized I know. Do they already have a map for this setup or will it be something new to them do ya think? 

Thanks again, 
Jake


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

maddogfab said:


> Mike,
> 
> Ok, leave the intake alone and save the dough. Good advice. My truck is rock solid in the reliability department and I want to preserve that.
> 
> ...


Yes the pin clearance is just that tight on VG's. If its loose it will make a lame knocking sound that sounds like a rod knock but not quite that bad.

You can do the notches by claying the top of the pistons, dummy up the piston to a rod and the crank and pressing the valves into the clay, that way the machine shop knows where to flycut the pistons exactly.

JWT has a program but it requires preminum fuel, I am going to work with therm for a 87 octane one as well later.

Mike


----------



## maddogfab (Mar 25, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> I am going to use the stock injectors. They guys at Nissan motorsports said the modifying the intake manifold is onlly good for a few horspower as is a bigger MAF and throttle body, like at the most 5-6 hp. I am leaving mine stock because the truck is my tow vehicle and I don't want to go overboard and get to trick! I have enough problems with my cars.
> 
> I used the pistons from an older first gen Q45. The pin is offset you you gotta get the left and right side. You gotta hone your small in of the rod for the bigger pin and you have to keep the fit tight or its gonna make a knocking sound. You also gotta notch the pistons slightly for valve clearance.
> 
> ...


Hey Mike, 

Ok, I've got the VG33ER motor home and on the stand. I'm going to have the crank and pulley machined to fit each other. I think this is the best way to go since I don't have another crank and this one has so few miles on it. Any recommendations on who can do this machining? I'm in San Diego North County. I've also got the motorsports cams 99996-V262H. Not cheap! 

I've hit a snag though, both local infiniti dealers insist that all eight VH45 pistons are the same and _not_ different left to right. A2010-60U00 says one dealer for grade2 and A2010-60U01 says another dealer for grade2. It could be a supercession I guess, but for this kind of money, I refuse to guess. I want to order these things but I dont trust these numbers. Any help?

Thanks,
Jake


----------



## wufinder (Mar 1, 2004)

*your t bars*

Do you have a part number on the torsion bars you got from Nissan Motorsport? I looked through the catalog the other day, there are abunch of different t-bars. Also, do you know the part number of the springs you got for the rear. I put mine in, and my pathfinder a lot looks taller. After I cranked the Torsion bars in the front to match the those nissan motorsports springs in the rear, I have had bad alignment problems, and a horrible ride. I'm thinking of just lowering the front to match the look of yours so I can get the thing into alignment.
Thanks
KEnny


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

maddogfab said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> Ok, I've got the VG33ER motor home and on the stand. I'm going to have the crank and pulley machined to fit each other. I think this is the best way to go since I don't have another crank and this one has so few miles on it. Any recommendations on who can do this machining? I'm in San Diego North County. I've also got the motorsports cams 99996-V262H. Not cheap!
> 
> ...


Call Greg Vogel at Quality Nissan in Temecula, he knows his shit when it comes to parts. When you get the pistons, measure them to make double sure because often Nissan dealers order parts and return them after mixing up the boxes, I have gotten burned before on pistons and bearings and only because I always measure, did I catch the mixup.

Be sure you notch the pistons for the VG valves like in the pictures I posted for you.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

wufinder said:


> Do you have a part number on the torsion bars you got from Nissan Motorsport? I looked through the catalog the other day, there are abunch of different t-bars. Also, do you know the part number of the springs you got for the rear. I put mine in, and my pathfinder a lot looks taller. After I cranked the Torsion bars in the front to match the those nissan motorsports springs in the rear, I have had bad alignment problems, and a horrible ride. I'm thinking of just lowering the front to match the look of yours so I can get the thing into alignment.
> Thanks
> KEnny


Nissan Motorports offers two bars, a dual stage and a single stage. The dual stage clanks when enguaging the second stage so I chose not to get those for my mostly street driven pathfinder. If you are hard core offorad, it might be advisable.

You can't raise the front to match the rear, you will be against the top out bumpers. I ran the short energy top out bumpers to give more rebound clearance and adjusted the ride height so there is about 3/4" btween the LCA and the top out bumper. If you do this your ride will be very nice.

If you can see the after pics in NPM, the car has a slight nose down rake.

Mike


----------



## wufinder (Mar 1, 2004)

*Nissan Motorsport cams*

Hey Mike,
You said "We estimate that the cams were good for about 25 hp over stock. The power increase comes across the board with more power from idle to the fuel cut." Would you say it really feels like 25 more hp across all rpm? That's an amazing modification if so. Any thing else you can tell me about the Pathfinder after the cams were installed? I'm seriously considering the cams. 
Thanks again,
Kenny


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

wufinder said:


> Hey Mike,
> You said "We estimate that the cams were good for about 25 hp over stock. The power increase comes across the board with more power from idle to the fuel cut." Would you say it really feels like 25 more hp across all rpm? That's an amazing modification if so. Any thing else you can tell me about the Pathfinder after the cams were installed? I'm seriously considering the cams.
> Thanks again,
> Kenny


The idle is somewhat rough but the better stuff is worth it. The cams were the single best power adder so far.


----------



## Seattle_Al (Aug 18, 2004)

Any idea how the hotter cams affect emmission levels?

Our '95 Pathfinder is at 70,000 miles and is still bone stock (including the timing belt, yeah, I know). When I do the timing belt job this fall, I'd like to tackle the cams. However, in this neck of the woods, the state requires an emission check every two years (measuring CO, CO2, total hydrocarbons at idle and at 2,700 rpm). If the wilder cams are too rough at idle, I'm concerned it won't pass.

Anyone been there, done that?


----------



## jadcock (Nov 22, 2002)

Seattle_Al said:


> However, in this neck of the woods, the state requires an emission check every two years (measuring CO, CO2, total hydrocarbons at idle and at 2,700 rpm). If the wilder cams are too rough at idle, I'm concerned it won't pass.


Cams with more overlap generally produce more HCs at the tailpipe (and possibly other types of pollutants as well). I don't know to what extent the pollution will increase, but it'll probably increase some. If the cams are just a few steps above stock levels, I doubt this is something your catalytic converter couldn't handle, especially if it's been replaced with an aftermarket unit. If it hasn't, I bet a $99 high-flow converter would ensure your compliance with your locality's tailpipe sniffer.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Seattle_Al said:


> Any idea how the hotter cams affect emmission levels?
> 
> Our '95 Pathfinder is at 70,000 miles and is still bone stock (including the timing belt, yeah, I know). When I do the timing belt job this fall, I'd like to tackle the cams. However, in this neck of the woods, the state requires an emission check every two years (measuring CO, CO2, total hydrocarbons at idle and at 2,700 rpm). If the wilder cams are too rough at idle, I'm concerned it won't pass.
> 
> Anyone been there, done that?


I have passed the tough CA rolling road dyno IM 240 test with flying colors using the motorsport cams. The car had practicaly zero emmissions at over 130k miles.

The smog tech was wary and could not belive his eyes, he said your car is gonna fail, why does it idle like that? I told him just to test it. The engine has been maintained immacualtly with mobile one every 3000 miles since break in.

I think the cat in good condition works the HC's and the lower cylinder pressures at idle and low rpm reduce NOX, like built in EGR.


----------



## Seattle_Al (Aug 18, 2004)

Sold. As far as the actual job, is there more to it than removing the valve covers, distributer, and rocker shafts (and replacing the cover gaskets and lifters?)
What's a good source for NISMO gear?


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Seattle_Al said:


> Sold. As far as the actual job, is there more to it than removing the valve covers, distributer, and rocker shafts (and replacing the cover gaskets and lifters?)
> What's a good source for NISMO gear?


better change the cam seals as well. good to do the belts and stuff while you are in there. The lifters are contaned in this casting on top of the cams but its pretty straightfoward.

Cortesy Nissan can get you these cams. They are nissan motorsports, not Nismo. THye are the 262 grind.


----------



## Seattle_Al (Aug 18, 2004)

Hmmm?!? NISMO is an abbreviation for NISsan MOtorsports international, it is not? Every reference I've seen uses the terms interchangably, or did you mean they are Nissan cams, not NISMO?
Either way, I found a local shop with the #2 cams (262 degrees/.430 duration, part#M-99996-V262H) for about $600, and lifters for $10, though I'll give Courtesy a call and see if shipping is less than WA sales tax...
And yeah, I've got a big box of Nissan parts sitting here waiting for the timing belt job (all belts, water pump, tensioner, thermostat, cam and crank seals) This will be the first time anyone's been in this engine since new, I'm hoping I won't have to go in again for another 10 years


----------



## djyamyam (Aug 23, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> A low buck motor would be to use Q45 VH45 pistons in a VG33E blockwhich gives about 9.7:1 compression up from 8.8:1 and are 88mm bore for 3.4 liters. Do a little pocket and match porting, use JWT cams and run SLR or Doug Thorley Headers, top off with a JWT ECU. Run a 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust with peforated core straight through mufflers. Use JWT's POP charger filter replacing the rubber zip pipe with a smooth mandrel bent piece and makes a cold air dam in the engine compartment. This gives just under 260 hp.
> 
> For towing it might be better to run Nissan Motorsports 262 cams and give up a few top end hp to get better midrange torque.
> 
> ...


A question regarding your upgrades. Would they also be applicable for a 97 Pathfinder (VG33E)? I figure either the JWT or Nissan 262 cams would be ok but the JWT and Thorley websites don't show the ecu or headers for a 97 pathfinder. Spencer Low Racing has the VG33h-01 headers for the 3.3L Xterra, would these work for the VG33E?

Any help for a newbie upgrader would be greatly appreciated.

dj


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Seattle_Al said:


> Hmmm?!? NISMO is an abbreviation for NISsan MOtorsports international, it is not? Every reference I've seen uses the terms interchangably, or did you mean they are Nissan cams, not NISMO?
> Either way, I found a local shop with the #2 cams (262 degrees/.430 duration, part#M-99996-V262H) for about $600, and lifters for $10, though I'll give Courtesy a call and see if shipping is less than WA sales tax...
> And yeah, I've got a big box of Nissan parts sitting here waiting for the timing belt job (all belts, water pump, tensioner, thermostat, cam and crank seals) This will be the first time anyone's been in this engine since new, I'm hoping I won't have to go in again for another 10 years


You will love these cams. Nissan Motorsports USA is different from Nismo. Both are Nissan companies but Nissan Motorsports is a divsion of Nissan North America, Nismo is Japanese. However Nissan North america has a program operated under the nismo name, sort of confusing.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

djyamyam said:


> A question regarding your upgrades. Would they also be applicable for a 97 Pathfinder (VG33E)? I figure either the JWT or Nissan 262 cams would be ok but the JWT and Thorley websites don't show the ecu or headers for a 97 pathfinder. Spencer Low Racing has the VG33h-01 headers for the 3.3L Xterra, would these work for the VG33E?
> 
> Any help for a newbie upgrader would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> dj


The cams make an even bigger difference in the VG33 because it has really small cams stock. JWT could make an ecu for pathfinders up to 97 but they proably have not had a call to develop one yet.

The SLR headers would bolt to the eninge but the Unibody R50 pathfinder is very different under the hood from the body on frame WD22 Xterra so I am not sure. Maybe give SLR a call. 

One thing is the 2004 VG33 fronter exhaust manifolds flow much better than your manifold so it might be cool to switch to those if you cant find a suitable header.


----------



## Seattle_Al (Aug 18, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> You will love these cams. Nissan Motorsports USA is different from Nismo. Both are Nissan companies but Nissan Motorsports is a divsion of Nissan North America, Nismo is Japanese. However Nissan North america has a program operated under the nismo name, sort of confusing.


Gotcha. Thanks!
Wait. Not to beat a dead horse (WHACK), but if both Nismo and Nissan Motorsports USA offer cams for the VG30E with the same grind (262, .430), is there really a difference (billet, quality control, other?)
Also, it looks like the entire intake manifold ('95 Pathfinder) has to come off to get to the driver side valve cover. Service manual lists the steps, but doesn't list which gaskets should be replaced. The truck is a daily driver so I'd like to have everything on hand before digging in. Any suggestions?

-al


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Seattle_Al said:


> Gotcha. Thanks!
> Wait. Not to beat a dead horse (WHACK), but if both Nismo and Nissan Motorsports USA offer cams for the VG30E with the same grind (262, .430), is there really a difference (billet, quality control, other?)
> Also, it looks like the entire intake manifold ('95 Pathfinder) has to come off to get to the driver side valve cover. Service manual lists the steps, but doesn't list which gaskets should be replaced. The truck is a daily driver so I'd like to have everything on hand before digging in. Any suggestions?
> 
> -al


Nismo doesent have camshafts for the VG motor. Their cams are for the SR and RB motors. The cams sold here are Nissan Motorsports USA and they are American ground cams ground off of new Nissan billets.

The gaskets are metal and seem reuseable but I would replace them anyway.

Did you get cam seals? A lot of people forget these. I would change the timing belt tensioner pulley and maybe the water pump while I was in there just in case.


----------



## jimk403 (Aug 31, 2004)

*headers?*

I was under the impression that the Doug Thorley headers only fit the manual trans vehicles. What did you have to do to make them fit with the auto?


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jimk403 said:


> I was under the impression that the Doug Thorley headers only fit the manual trans vehicles. What did you have to do to make them fit with the auto?


the cataloge says m/t only but they do fit the A/T cars.


----------



## Spankyzbt (Aug 30, 2004)

*PaceSetter vs D. Thorley*

Question on headers.....

Pacesetter makes a set and are alot cheaper. Is this company completely inferior to Thorley's? 

I've been reading over the Project Pathfinder articles, and plan on putting in the headers, cams, air intake as definites. I am a little concerned about putting these performance parts in my daily driver ('95 pickup). With these upgrades will there be a need to upgrade a radiator, tranny, rear end, or any other parts? Do u find yourself spending alot of time tuning the pathfinder?

Last but not least....the pathfinders have fog lights that are just inside the front bumper directionals. I am looking to get a set, and the junkyards around me in NY are HORRIBLE. Any good sites out there I should look at?

P.S. I really appreciate all the time you spend to answer all of our questions. I don't think there are any other forums, I know of, that the writers supplement their articles or answer their readers back.

Keep it coming!!


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Spankyzbt said:


> Question on headers.....
> 
> Pacesetter makes a set and are alot cheaper. Is this company completely inferior to Thorley's?
> 
> ...


Pacesetter headers are complete crap. Whats worse is they make cheap copies, ripping off other comanies designs. I refuse to support companies like this. They have thin flages and tubes with poor quality welds.

autogator.com is an all nissan junkyard.

The parts I recomend will not affect relaiblity. Afterall I tow a racecar and a two axle trailer with them, about 5000 lbs over hill and dale in 100 degree california heat.


----------



## Seattle_Al (Aug 18, 2004)

Please forgive my ignorance, I've never torn into a VG30E before: Can the cams even be removed with the heads still in the truck? After pouring over the service manual this weekend, it looks like there is a bolt and a retaining plate that goes into the rear of the camshaft to hold it in place. On the drivers side, that is about two finger widths from the firewall, I don't see how one could get a wrench back there...


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Seattle_Al said:


> Please forgive my ignorance, I've never torn into a VG30E before: Can the cams even be removed with the heads still in the truck? After pouring over the service manual this weekend, it looks like there is a bolt and a retaining plate that goes into the rear of the camshaft to hold it in place. On the drivers side, that is about two finger widths from the firewall, I don't see how one could get a wrench back there...


The cams slide into an alloy retaining plate that bolts to the head, they can be removed without removing the head.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

*New High Power Motor lives!*

Finaly project pathfinder is running with the new motor.

3.4 liters, 9.7:1 compression, DPR heads. Man this thing is quick. It feels way faster than the supercharged VG33R. Probably gets a lot better mileage as well. Still breaking in the motor. Will reprogram the ECU if need be but seems to be running fine right now.

I am worried about the tranny, it seems like its slipping on upshifts. Anyone know of a good place that does valvebodies on the Jatco F01A tranny?


----------



## nissannut (Jul 3, 2003)

Cool.. :thumbup:


----------



## stanguy84 (Jan 1, 2005)

"Nissan's Titan full size truck is not out yet, we don't want to deal with a domestic truck and the quality issues,"

detroits full-size trucks have always set the standard. Japanese manufacturers are just now catching up. What about the new Tundra? its out. As much as I like Nissan the Titan is brand new and brand new vehicles always.....always have quality issues. I will probably buy a Titan in the future because I like it that much......But until its been around and proved itself the Big 3 will always dominate the full-size truck market.

i'm sorry.......Thats just a biased comment. Everyone know's somebody thats had a bad time with all manufacturers. Just depends on who you ask. I know people who hate Nissans and say they are crap because they've had bad nissan cars and vice versa.

As far as their towing needs.....a bare bones ext. cab Ford f150 6 cylinder would have been cheap to come by and pull that car all over the place.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

stanguy84 said:


> "Nissan's Titan full size truck is not out yet, we don't want to deal with a domestic truck and the quality issues,"
> 
> detroits full-size trucks have always set the standard. Japanese manufacturers are just now catching up. What about the new Tundra? its out. As much as I like Nissan the Titan is brand new and brand new vehicles always.....always have quality issues. I will probably buy a Titan in the future because I like it that much......But until its been around and proved itself the Big 3 will always dominate the full-size truck market.
> 
> ...


Read the rest of the thread. I already own the pathfinder, its way paid for. Would it be better for me to get an F150 or a Tundera and have NPM not have a Project Pathfinder? I am sure that vistors to our sights would much rather read about something Nissan related. We are a Nissan based magazine, not a general truck magazine.

As far as me being biased, there is plenty of industry 2nd party statisitcal evidence that dometic manufactures are behind Toyota Honda and Nissan in quality even for trucks. Its not biasd or annecdotal. Generaly new vehicle launches from the top 3 Japanese companies are pretty trouble free as well. This is based on statisitcal emperical data. You are stating an opinion formed on limited anecdoatal information. 

As an automotive engineer, I can also see that they are quite a few differences in the parts. A typical Nissan is built way more beefy that its domestic counterpart, big rod bolts, beefy forged rods and crankshafts, higher quality castings, better head designs, Overhead cams years before the modular motor. Comapre a Pathfinder or Frontier to a S10 or Ranger, look at the suspension, the steering linkages, ball joints, differential, all beefier componets made of higher grade materials. Nissans are not perfect they do have weak points but compared to dometic small trucks, they are better in most places. Now a Pathfinder is not an F150 or F250 SD but its quite a bit better than the small domestic trucks it was designed to compete against

My new motor has more hp (but less torque) than a 4.6 or 5.0 liter F150, its built to the same spec as Nissan Motorsports pre runners motors. Its not gonna tow like a full size truck but it should be a good build up for Frontier and Pathfinder lovers which was what it was intended for.


----------



## stanguy84 (Jan 1, 2005)

you have a point. and as much as i like pathfinders i would have sold it and bought a truck ment for towing. they go for the same price as pathfinders and you wouldn't have to tear it apart to make it do what you wanted. it would do all that stock. all for around the same amount of money.

as far as quality goes. i can only go on real world experience. and i've seen lots of shoddy vehicles and well built ones. never really differeniated between domestic and import.


----------



## Conner (Nov 11, 2004)

Here's the latest installment: 
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/february05/pathfinder/
The Feb NPM is up, but the link to Project Pathfinder is not (as of this morning). I'm sure the link will be up soon, but for those who can't wait here it is.


----------



## spec240sx (Aug 22, 2004)

Conner said:


> Here's the latest installment:
> http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/february05/pathfinder/
> The Feb NPM is up, but the link to Project Pathfinder is not (as of this morning). I'm sure the link will be up soon, but for those who can't wait here it is.


??? I thought You already Towed with it.. Or am I mistaken?
Have you thrown on an 80mm TB or ?


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

spec240sx said:


> ??? I thought You already Towed with it.. Or am I mistaken?
> Have you thrown on an 80mm TB or ?


We have been towing with this car since it was a stocker and it used to really suck.

It has a pretty big TB on it for the power output, 60mm and I have found that even 200 hp NA motors don't seem to benifit from going bigger no matter what anyone says. Nissan Motorsports has tested bigger TB's and MAF's on simular spec engines with no gains.

We just put a bigger MAF on and maybe saw a couple of hp.


----------



## Zombie Lord (Feb 18, 2005)

*Stocker Buildup*



morepower2 said:


> It has a pretty big TB on it for the power output, 60mm and I have found that even 200 hp NA motors don't seem to benifit from going bigger no matter what anyone says.


First, thanks for the article. It is the blueprint I am using for my '93 Pathfinder (120k miles) build up. I can't afford to do a 3.4 build up, or buy the high end parts found in most of your article. I know yours is a "low buck" build out, but still is in the 3k range. JWT, Nissan Motorsports, and Rancho parts are not cheap. So, my goal is to buy more budget parts to get 80% of you results. I was hoping to get your (and everyone else's) input on the plan.
I have purchased:
Energy Suspension's poly bushing kit $75-ish
Gabriel Ryder LT shocks (Front and Rear) $67
New inner and outer tie-rod ends and upper and lower ball joints $180
Automatic Transmission service kit $8
Engine, Transmission and rear end oil $30
3" K&N cone filter and adapter for stock Air Meter $30
EL Gauge kit $30

I will install all of this over the weekend. At some point I will spring for the new torsion bars and springs, but for now I will see how this will do.
I plan to buy the Nissan Motorsports cam set, Thorny headers, and 60mm TB (off a 300ZX?). I have a couple questions about doing this. Will I be able to use the OEM computer and the Nissan Cam set. Also, should I change over to a 300ZX Air Meter, and what modifications to it would be needed. Thanks for the article, and any advice you can give.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Zombie Lord said:


> First, thanks for the article. It is the blueprint I am using for my '93 Pathfinder (120k miles) build up. I can't afford to do a 3.4 build up, or buy the high end parts found in most of your article. I know yours is a "low buck" build out, but still is in the 3k range. JWT, Nissan Motorsports, and Rancho parts are not cheap. So, my goal is to buy more budget parts to get 80% of you results. I was hoping to get your (and everyone else's) input on the plan.
> I have purchased:
> Energy Suspension's poly bushing kit $75-ish
> Gabriel Ryder LT shocks (Front and Rear) $67
> ...


The cams will work well with the OEM computer. The 300zx MAF is probably not needed. I used a S14 240SX one because it fit on the stock intake tube with no mofifcation. You need to reporgram your ecu if you change your MAF. You have to consult with Jim Wolf to do it.

The power gains are minimal.

I measured the stock TB and I was wrong, its 56mm not 60mm as I previously reported. I will experiment with a bigger TB and report how it works.


----------



## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

I'd seriously consider taking back those Gabriel shocks. There's a good reason they only cost $16 each. They wear out quickly, give a wallowy feeling ride and you won't like having to replace them after a year's use...

KYB's or Bilsteins are TONS better. Ranchos are fairly stiff, most people who don't off-road their Nissan don't like the Ranchos. You might also try Pro-Comp's ES1000 or ES3000 shocks. 4WheelParts.com has sales on them all the time...usually 4 shocks plus a steering stabilizer for $120 or so.


----------



## Zombie Lord (Feb 18, 2005)

88pathoffroad said:


> I'd seriously consider taking back those Gabriel shocks.... They wear out quickly, give a wallowy feeling ride and you won't like having to replace them after a year's use...


Thanks for the heads up. I didn't intend to keep them long. I hope to switch to something else, but wanted to get the stock shocks off. They had no resistance left in them at all. I will check out the Pro-Comps. I haul a pop-up camper on the weekends and commute in it during the week. So a softer ride would be preferred. 

I noticed some things while doing the work on the Pathfinder this weekend. It has no steering stabilizer. On a 2wd is that normal? And would I benefit from adding one?


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

88pathoffroad said:


> I'd seriously consider taking back those Gabriel shocks. There's a good reason they only cost $16 each. They wear out quickly, give a wallowy feeling ride and you won't like having to replace them after a year's use...
> 
> KYB's or Bilsteins are TONS better. Ranchos are fairly stiff, most people who don't off-road their Nissan don't like the Ranchos. You might also try Pro-Comp's ES1000 or ES3000 shocks. 4WheelParts.com has sales on them all the time...usually 4 shocks plus a steering stabilizer for $120 or so.


I agree, don't skimp on shocks when better shocks are still pretty cheap. The RSX 9000's that we used on project pathfinder can be adjusted to ride real smooth. The in cab adjustment feature makes it quick, conveniant and easy to do so.

Bilstiens are pretty good. I don't have any experiance with KYB.

When shocks are as cheap as 120 bucks, don't try to save 60 bucks and get something much worse.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Zombie Lord said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I didn't intend to keep them long. I hope to switch to something else, but wanted to get the stock shocks off. They had no resistance left in them at all. I will check out the Pro-Comps. I haul a pop-up camper on the weekends and commute in it during the week. So a softer ride would be preferred.
> 
> I noticed some things while doing the work on the Pathfinder this weekend. It has no steering stabilizer. On a 2wd is that normal? And would I benefit from adding one?


Only some 4x4 models came with a factory stabilizer. I would say that unless you off road a lot, are lifted and have bigger tires, its not an absolute must. With bigger tires like in the 31" range, it helps wander and dealing with bumpsteer.

If you seriously off road, it helps prevent violent kickback of the steeringwheel.


----------



## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

Most Pathys didn't come with a steering stabilizer. You can either buy a Rancho kit to bolt one on, or buy the frame-mounted pin and hardware from a dealership and a stock size stabilizer replacement and bolt that on. It makes a noticeable difference in steering feel, yes.


----------



## Spankyzbt (Aug 30, 2004)

*grill guard for '95 Hardbody*

Sorry for the unrelated question... but I am looking for a chrome grill/brush guard for my '95 Hardbody. There seems to be an issue with finding one for that year. Anyone have any good sites/friends/retail shops that may be able to help me?

Also wanted to price the Calmini Steering system. I live in NYC and you have NO idea the size of pot holes, street cracks, etc. on our city highways....my truck is bone stock and the bump steer is ridiculous.

Thanks


----------



## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

Why would you ask this at the bottom of a lengthy post about a project vehicle? Jeez, wake up.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Spankyzbt said:


> Sorry for the unrelated question... but I am looking for a chrome grill/brush guard for my '95 Hardbody. There seems to be an issue with finding one for that year. Anyone have any good sites/friends/retail shops that may be able to help me?
> 
> Also wanted to price the Calmini Steering system. I live in NYC and you have NO idea the size of pot holes, street cracks, etc. on our city highways....my truck is bone stock and the bump steer is ridiculous.
> 
> Thanks


Follow the links in the article and call Calmini, they have an 800 line.


----------



## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

Mike, 
I had ran across your "project" Pathfinder article several months ago and only recently found this forum. Both have been very informative. I would likely have made a few different choices in my purchases armed with this information. But... 

I've been a Nissan fan since the mid 80's when I purchased my first, a 1980 Datsun ("by Nissan") PU. I tried to run it into the ground, but couldn't. With a daughter and a dog, I simply outgrew it and purchased a 1986 (early, 720) "King Cab", which I have kept (217K miles) in spite of my wife's objections for going to the dump and the occasional oversized purchases. The next Nissan to join the family was a '92 Pathfinder for my wife after her disappointment with the lack of space cars had to offer. The Pathfinder is now mine; my wife drives a 2000 Xterra. None of these have ever had any thing more than regular maintenance - I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I still need to replace the timing belt on the Pathfinder with over 140K, but I do have the part and plan to do it soon. BTW, all of these are 5spd which brings me to my first question. 
I am getting ready for the first clutch, on the Pathfinder; the PU w/217K still has the original! Though I've done this job on a number of American cars, I was wondering if you had any words of wisdom regarding this task on a Nissan? How difficult is the old pilot bushing to remove (can't be as bad as a Ford 5.0, or can it)? Other than a clutch kit and rear main seal, should I be prepared to purchase and replace any other parts? 
My mods so far include a draw-tite hitch for towing a bass boat in the warm weather. The front bumper ends were rusting through, so I decided this was a good excuse to replace the bumper with an ARB Bull Bumper (love it) to help me survive any encounters with whitetails; a common problem in our area. Wheels and tires are now US Wheels & 31x10.5x15 Yokohama Geo A/T Plus, to help prevent my slipping in and getting stuck in the mud, which I did this past January. The new wheels are 15x7 and 3 3/4 back space, which is less backspace than stock, but fit well (after removing a few bits of cosmetic plastic from the front corner cawl). This gives it a bit wider track, but do you think this might cause extra stress on the bearings or front drive? 
The shocks were replaced with Ranch RS5000. Had I read your article and posts before, I probably would have gone with the 9000s, but I really can't complain about the ones I got - better than stock and much better than the worn stocks that came off.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Animal said:


> Mike,
> I had ran across your "project" Pathfinder article several months ago and only recently found this forum. Both have been very informative. I would likely have made a few different choices in my purchases armed with this information. But...
> 
> I've been a Nissan fan since the mid 80's when I purchased my first, a 1980 Datsun ("by Nissan") PU. I tried to run it into the ground, but couldn't. With a daughter and a dog, I simply outgrew it and purchased a 1986 (early, 720) "King Cab", which I have kept (217K miles) in spite of my wife's objections for going to the dump and the occasional oversized purchases. The next Nissan to join the family was a '92 Pathfinder for my wife after her disappointment with the lack of space cars had to offer. The Pathfinder is now mine; my wife drives a 2000 Xterra. None of these have ever had any thing more than regular maintenance - I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I still need to replace the timing belt on the Pathfinder with over 140K, but I do have the part and plan to do it soon. BTW, all of these are 5spd which brings me to my first question.
> ...


More postive offsett will cause more stress on the wheel bearings and steering but its proably not extreme. I would not worry about it. I would worry about that timing belt. If it breaks kiss your valves goodbye, an expensive repair. Fix that ASAP.


----------



## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

morepower2 said:


> More postive offsett will cause more stress on the wheel bearings and steering but its proably not extreme. I would not worry about it. I would worry about that timing belt. If it breaks kiss your valves goodbye, an expensive repair. Fix that ASAP.


I know, I know. I suppose the neglect is, at least in part, due to the reliability of the Nissan trucks I've had and have. The original distributor cap and rotor just got replaced, not that they were a problem or even looked bad, but after 13 years and coming up on 150K, I figured I'd throw it a treat.  
Something I have had to fix, which I have not seen mentioned anywhere, is the connectors to the various sensors. The tension on the wire harness side of the connections appear to weaken - most notably on the MAS and TPS. The symptoms appear as a bad sensor; decline in performance, erratic idle, etc.; but disconnected sensors test OK. Using a really small screw driver to reform the connections remedies the problem.


----------



## Jebus23 (Jun 16, 2005)

:hal: this guy is dissin' pathfinders!!


----------



## jetski_waxhead (Sep 17, 2005)

I have a pathfinder a 1999 model
its has the vg33 engine in it
however it doesnt have the cat up on the manifold as the ones you are talking about on here
I am in australia so may have different spec
the cats are halfway down the body
my question is it worth the cams alone on this engine
i am not wanting to lose my good idle and city driving
but i do want some more urge when i pull out into traffic


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jetski_waxhead said:


> I have a pathfinder a 1999 model
> its has the vg33 engine in it
> however it doesnt have the cat up on the manifold as the ones you are talking about on here
> I am in australia so may have different spec
> ...


The cams make the biggest difference of any of the parts.


----------



## nissannut (Jul 3, 2003)

jetski_waxhead said:


> I have a pathfinder a 1999 model
> its has the vg33 engine in it
> however it doesnt have the cat up on the manifold as the ones you are talking about on here
> I am in australia so may have different spec
> ...


I would start with a better air intake. I modified the stock one for more air, or buy a new CAI.


----------



## br2an (Mar 9, 2004)

Hi. I have been following your project for quite some time and you have built a very impressive vehicle. I was wondering if you have been keeping track of the gas mileage since doing the heads and bottom end. I saw where you were up to 24 mpg on the highway after the cams were installed; did it increase after that?

Keep up the good work and enjoy that Pathfinder. It's a keeper!

Brian


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

br2an said:


> Hi. I have been following your project for quite some time and you have built a very impressive vehicle. I was wondering if you have been keeping track of the gas mileage since doing the heads and bottom end. I saw where you were up to 24 mpg on the highway after the cams were installed; did it increase after that?
> 
> Keep up the good work and enjoy that Pathfinder. It's a keeper!
> 
> Brian


The milegage actualy went down after the build, I think because of the bigger motor. I had to detune the ECU a little too because the higher compression didnt like 87 octane gas. I lost about 2-3 mpg. It still makes better mileage than stock and it has way more power.

I may add timing back into my igntion map and bite the bullet and run premium fuel. I am sure my mileage can get better.


----------



## MikeR50 (Oct 8, 2005)

morepower2 said:


> The cams make an even bigger difference in the VG33 because it has really small cams stock. JWT could make an ecu for pathfinders up to 97 but they proably have not had a call to develop one yet.
> 
> The SLR headers would bolt to the eninge but the Unibody R50 pathfinder is very different under the hood from the body on frame WD22 Xterra so I am not sure. Maybe give SLR a call.
> 
> One thing is the 2004 VG33 fronter exhaust manifolds flow much better than your manifold so it might be cool to switch to those if you cant find a suitable header.



How much better do the Frontier exhaust manifolds flow than my '98 Pathy's? Would they pretty much just bolt up to the heads? I'm looking to add a custom intake setup (K&N, pipe), cams, possibly the frontier manifolds, and a custom exhaust. Do you still think the bored out throttle bodies are not worth it?


----------



## uncreative (Oct 14, 2005)

*93 pathy*

I am very new to tuning cars and at this point can do the easy maintenance stuff myself, but past that I get lost. The only mod I have on my pathy is a set of Doug Thorley headers, which I put on because the exhaust manifolds cracked. And yes, there were multiple broken studs.

I have a couple questions.

First, I am having trouble keeping the header nuts on the bolts. I had a couple of friends help me drill out the old bolts and put in new ones. I am not sure if we got to all of them. The passenger side has five bolts anchoring the headers on and one bolt not anchored to the headers. The driver's side only has four bolts. I got all the passenger side nuts tightened and the header sealed up, but the driver's side is still missing a nut after the original worked its way off. It's a bitch to get to and what I'd like to know is--did we miss a broken stud in there? Why are there only four bolts on the driver's side holding the headers on? If we missed a broken stud am I better off taking it to a shop to drill out the stud and get all the nuts tightened?


Second--I am intensely interested in the mods done to the project pathfinder and would like to know what you would suggest doing to the car first? As far as the engine mods go, should I look for a junked Xterra like y'all did, or should I be looking for a place that would put togethere a crate engine with the 33 block and the 30 heads? As I said, my mechanical aptitude is weak, so I wouldn't be doing much of anything as far as actual installation and working on parts goes.


I appreciate any suggestions. :thumbup:


----------



## uncreative (Oct 14, 2005)

sorry 'bout using bolt and stud interchangably


----------



## Novelist (Jul 7, 2004)

> After having both and extensivly working on both, I'd have to say that Nissan's, Toyota's and Honda's are way better engineered and easy to work on cars than the domestics. I think Fords are pretty easy to work on but GM's and Mopars are hopeless. Most people with opinions don't have the experiance and their opinions are baised on predjustice instead of facts.
> Mike


This was an amusing thread to read. 
I no longer buy US brands. Here in Mexico we have a wide range to choose from - including Peugeot, Renault, Seat, Fiat, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Infiniti, Jaguar, Mini, BMW, and all the US-domestic brands.
We miss out on a few items - for instance, I want a Mercury Villager because it appears to be the only reliable van that exists. The Chevys eat transmissions, the Dodge are junk like all other Chrysler vehicles (enter 'Dodge' and 'defect' into Google, see what happens.)
After visiting the monster junkyard yet one more time to find parts for my Ford Aerostar van, I noted to my wife that almost all the junk vehicles were US domestic brands. Hardly any were Euro or Japanese. 
So I first bought a used Sentra. It drives (still) like a little sports car with its 1.6 dohc motor. I have done over 100,000 Km in it with only routine maintenance and a pair of ball-joints. So recently I bought a 96 Maxima and compared to any US car I've ever driven, including a Caddy Eldorado (ugh) it is solid, and drives great. 
No more US cars for me.
Judging by the financial status of both Ford and GM and Delphi going into chapter 11, there seem to be quite a lot of consumers voting with their feet..


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

MikeR50 said:


> How much better do the Frontier exhaust manifolds flow than my '98 Pathy's? Would they pretty much just bolt up to the heads? I'm looking to add a custom intake setup (K&N, pipe), cams, possibly the frontier manifolds, and a custom exhaust. Do you still think the bored out throttle bodies are not worth it?


I don't know for sure but I hear they work quite a bit better.


----------



## LLopez161 (Jan 31, 2006)

*Startup problems on 95 Path XE 3.0*

Hi, I own a 95 Path XE 3.0. I have been having one hell of a time trying to figure out why my Path all of the sudden started having start up problems. Don't get me wrong it starts but after it does its like it mis-firing and backfiring. I got this car in July of last year 05 and I never had a problem until now. I think this is a great car. I haven't had a chance to take it off-road yet but that was going to be my next adventure. I think the problem is the speed sensor or I'm hoping its not something worst. I just moved down to Florida and I haven't found a good mechanic yet. I like doing my own work on my car but some times I have to seek a higher power. So if some one could lend a hand I sure would appreciate it.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

LLopez161 said:


> Hi, I own a 95 Path XE 3.0. I have been having one hell of a time trying to figure out why my Path all of the sudden started having start up problems. Don't get me wrong it starts but after it does its like it mis-firing and backfiring. I got this car in July of last year 05 and I never had a problem until now. I think this is a great car. I haven't had a chance to take it off-road yet but that was going to be my next adventure. I think the problem is the speed sensor or I'm hoping its not something worst. I just moved down to Florida and I haven't found a good mechanic yet. I like doing my own work on my car but some times I have to seek a higher power. So if some one could lend a hand I sure would appreciate it.


It could be that your timing belt has slipped. Doe its do this all the time or only when you try to start it?


----------



## cole (Jan 29, 2006)

*Same problem, wasn't what I thought*



LLopez161 said:


> Hi, I own a 95 Path XE 3.0. I have been having one hell of a time trying to figure out why my Path all of the sudden started having start up problems. Don't get me wrong it starts but after it does its like it mis-firing and backfiring. I got this car in July of last year 05 and I never had a problem until now. I think this is a great car. I haven't had a chance to take it off-road yet but that was going to be my next adventure. I think the problem is the speed sensor or I'm hoping its not something worst. I just moved down to Florida and I haven't found a good mechanic yet. I like doing my own work on my car but some times I have to seek a higher power. So if some one could lend a hand I sure would appreciate it.


I thought it was a timing belt, for a week. Pulled off the hosing to find the belt perfect. Wel excelent anyways. Mine threw a valve. Quit trying to start it and pull the head, or buy a new engine.


----------



## LLopez161 (Jan 31, 2006)

morepower2 said:


> It could be that your timing belt has slipped. Doe its do this all the time or only when you try to start it?


The car does turn over but I have found out something very interesting. I have checked all my plugs and wires and rotor cap and check for good arc on all the wires and every things seems fine. As I read through my maintenance book on my Pathfinder I get the impression that my problem lies with either the Speed sensor or the throttle position sensor. Apparently these sensors control the timing and read outs on the tach. One of the symptoms that have really bothered me and lead me to believe this, is the fact that my tach isnt reading my rpms any more. When I start the car it stays 1000 rpms and if I push the gas pedal it jumps to 4000 rpms. These two sensors control the timing and the readings on the tach. Please tell me what you think. Everything else seems to be in working order. The car is due for a timing belt and new water pump change I will do that but I don't expect it to change the mis-firing issue. My car also seems to be backfiring through the tailpipe and through the magnofoil. What do you think?


----------



## oreo2 (Feb 17, 2006)

I know the cams make the biggest difference in horsepower and torque and I 've read about the hp gains with the nissn motor sports cams ,I was just wondering what a set of 300zx cam would do? cause these can be found easily at the auto wreckers.


----------



## uncreative (Oct 14, 2005)

Do you know of any technical problems involved in swapping out my '93 pathy's VG30 for a later model VG33? Would there be any fabrication or rerouting required? Would it just fit directly into the bay unmodified, with all it's bolt-on's?


thx for your time


----------



## arcano (May 27, 2006)

*Upgrading my 1998 Pathfinder*

Hi all! I am writing from Panama, Central America. I have a 1998 Pathfinder LE with the 3.3L VG33 engine and the manual 5-speed transmission. It's almost completely stock, but very well kept. The only modifications are KYB shocks and struts to improve the ride and slightly bigger-than-stock 31x10.5R15LT Pirelli Scorpio A/T tires. It currently has 130K Km (about 80K miles). I have replaced the timing belt as preventive maintenance, and the distributor and AC compressor due to failures.

I use this truck as my daily driver, and it also sees its share of off-road driving, but nothing extreme. I have been reading about Project Pathfinder and other modified rigs, and I think its time to begin upgrading some other components. This is what I am thinking about to begin with:

JWT race cam shaft (S2 billet .473"/266°)
JWT pop charger air intake upgrade
High flow muffler (maybe Magnaflow)
Centerforce I clutch
Front cross-drilled rotors (brand unknown, from 4x4 Parts) and maybe better pads
2" coil spring lift w/camber alignment kit (brand unknown, from 4x4 Parts)
Warn manual hubs

What do you guys think? Does it make sense? Will the cams seriously affect the idle? What about when using the air conditioner? Will any of this seriously affect the reliability or comfort of the car when used as a daily driver?

Regarding the installation of the cams: Do I need to replace the valve springs when I swap the cams, and if so, should I use stock springs or the ones sold by JWT? Also, from the maintenance and service manual it seems as if the cams can be replaced without completely disassembling the cylinder head. Is this possible and advisable, or should I do a complete cylinder head overhaul?

Finally, does anyone know where to get headers or exhaust systems for this truck?

Thanks for all the great info and advice so far.


----------



## nissannut (Jul 3, 2003)

Stillen used to make headers for the Pathfinder. But no one else does.


----------



## HighDesertNissan (May 26, 2006)

Hey guys,

Loved the Project Pathy thread but wish ya would update it already. Was very impressed when you said you smoked a 240ish HP VQ35DE Pathfinder with your WD21. 

Some questions if ya every update the thread....

So what was your final Compression Ratio?

Is your auto tranny still acting up? I'd imagine so.

If Tranny issues where ever resolved, did you ever dyno her?

I think a shift kit would definitely be in order. Consider your not a serious wheeler, that thing would be a freaking blast with a 5-speed with that kinda n/a power. The stock Pathfinder Trannies last longer then the average american auto tranny by a long shot, but that's not saying much....lol. A big ass tranny cooler is a must whether your a soccer mom or a hardcore wheeler. If/when those auto trannies are ready to take a dump the reverse will go out first. 

As for those wanting headers. I'm sure stillen made VG30E headers for the older Maximas but I don't ever remember them making headers specifically for the wd21 pathfinder. The Throley headers are nice ass headers as long as one doesn't use the garbage gaskets they sell them with. OEM Nissan Gaskets or high quality gaskets like Fel-Pro are a must if your going to do Thorley headers. They say they don't fit Auto trannies but this thread is proof they fit just fine. If your wd21 has a lift you'll have to slightly modify(extend) the y-pipe on the passender side. 

Would love to hear some update of the *VG34E* powered wd21

If your driving on the street so much, might as well throw on a 150 wet shot of nitrous ..hehe. The VG30E stock engines will take big of a shot/jet that with no problems whatsoever.


----------



## nissannut (Jul 3, 2003)

Stillen made R50 (96-04) Pathy headers for a while.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

HighDesertNissan said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Loved the Project Pathy thread but wish ya would update it already. Was very impressed when you said you smoked a 240ish HP VQ35DE Pathfinder with your WD21.
> 
> ...


As per the article on the bottom end, the compression ratio after unshrouding the valves in the combustion chamber is 9.6:1 with no headwork its 9.8:1. In the first issue we added a trans cooler. We plan to add a transgo shfit kit soon.

We dynoed it at 265 whp up from the stock with bolt ons 125 whp. This is the same as a supercharged fronteir with an automatic transmission without the heat and stress of a supercharger..


----------



## HighDesertNissan (May 26, 2006)

morepower2 said:


> As per the article on the bottom end, the compression ratio after unshrouding the valves in the combustion chamber is 9.6:1 with no headwork its 9.8:1. In the first issue we added a trans cooler. We plan to add a transgo shfit kit soon.
> 
> We dynoed it at 265 whp up from the stock with bolt ons 125 whp. This is the same as a supercharged fronteir with an automatic transmission without the heat and stress of a supercharger..


I only asked about the compression as I thought it might have changed with further work. My bad on missing the tranny cooler.

Your engine is putting 265horse to the wheels....nice. If one uses a conservative estimate of 15% loss of power, your engine is putting as much to the wheels as a VG30DeTT or a VQ35DE from a later Z or G35.

As for the Supercharged Fronty comparison, Your way off, your putting way more HP to the ground then even a manaul supercharged Fronty. I owned the later, even with a manual tranny she was a dog relative to the fact that the Supercharged engine sucked gas like a sive. Your Pathfinder would be a freaking blast with a manual and the wheels and tires your running. 

I've got a 1994 Pathfinder and reading your Article early last year was my inspriation to do the VG34E. Got every part, including heads that have already been pNp'd with a 3-angle valve job, just need some install time.

Peace & Keep up the good work. I'll send your pics and info when I'm finished building the 800-1000hp VG30E that I'm swapping in my 1996 240sx shell.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

HighDesertNissan said:


> I only asked about the compression as I thought it might have changed with further work. My bad on missing the tranny cooler.
> 
> Your engine is putting 265horse to the wheels....nice. If one uses a conservative estimate of 15% loss of power, your engine is putting as much to the wheels as a VG30DeTT or a VQ35DE from a later Z or G35.
> 
> ...


Whoa sorry, I was meaning 175 whp, I had a brain fart. It has a slightly better powerband with the same peak power as a supercharged automatic Xterra we dynod at the same time.

Send us pics of your project, we would love to feature it.


----------



## HighDesertNissan (May 26, 2006)

morepower2 said:


> Whoa sorry, I was meaning 175 whp, I had a brain fart. It has a slightly better powerband with the same peak power as a supercharged automatic Xterra we dynod at the same time.
> 
> Send us pics of your project, we would love to feature it.



Hey,

I always use a conservative estimate of 15% for frontWD or RWD cars and 21% HP loss for awd or 4x4 trucks. You must be losing some serious HP @ the wheels. The 265 definitely sounded way to high and 175whp sounds to low...huuummm. 

Did you do an Oil filter relocation. Said mod will give a 5.5 quart oil capacity with excellent filtration with two huge oil filters. The stock Oil capacity is pathetic for a hard working mod'd engine. All you have to do is custom fab some kind of tray under the filters for oil drip during changes.

I'm starting on my S14 project in a month. I'd love for you guys to feature it. I wanna shoot for 1000+crank hp....we'll c. Lots and lots of money going into my VG30E w/ a cryo treated VG30DETT forged crank and everything you can think of.

Everything is a trade off(of course) but I'd really prefer the stock 240sx IFS with a nice LSD. I have a feeling that I'm gonna have to custom fab a Ford 9" rear axle as I just can't c the stock rear IFS handling 900+ horses. Love the Straight axles on the drag strip and can't stand em on the street....we'll c.

Peace


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

HighDesertNissan said:


> Hey,
> 
> I always use a conservative estimate of 15% for frontWD or RWD cars and 21% HP loss for awd or 4x4 trucks. You must be losing some serious HP @ the wheels. The 265 definitely sounded way to high and 175whp sounds to low...huuummm.
> 
> ...


An automatic transmission soaks up lots of power as does the heavy 4WD drivetrain. For example an A/T FWD Supercharged Xtterra had about the same peak power and less power under the curve. 

A R200 diff with a 4 pinion LSD can withstand 900 hp, the stub axles will break first. Keep us in mind for your car, we would love to feature it.


----------



## HighDesertNissan (May 26, 2006)

morepower2 said:


> An automatic transmission soaks up lots of power as does the heavy 4WD drivetrain. For example an A/T FWD Supercharged Xtterra had about the same peak power and less power under the curve.
> 
> A R200 diff with a 4 pinion LSD can withstand 900 hp, the stub axles will break first. Keep us in mind for your car, we would love to feature it.


Yeah, the auto tranny is killing your power. I've always heard 15%+ power loss from Auto trannies. If your tranny takes a dump I'd just swap a 5 Speed.

Anyway, thanks for the diff info. My goal will be 8.90 Seconds @ 163Mph or better. I wanna multimap ecu so I can run as much HP on the street as possible on 91 and then 101 Trick gas(right around the corner from me for $4.50/gallon) for the drag strip. It'll end up being a street legal race car.

I actually have a RB26DETT(Godzilla..hehe) engine pretty much stole from a JDM importer but I don't even know if the I-6 will fit in the 240. The VG30E has .4 more displacement and it's lighter then the later engine. I think it's gonna freaking rock in the S14!:jump: Inline engines are easier to work on but it's all relative. In my 1972 240Z the VG30E has enough room in the engine bay for anything you'd wanna put in their.

You definitley set a Bar for WD21 N/A Pathfinder power.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

HighDesertNissan said:


> Yeah, the auto tranny is killing your power. I've always heard 15%+ power loss from Auto trannies. If your tranny takes a dump I'd just swap a 5 Speed.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the diff info. My goal will be 8.90 Seconds @ 163Mph or better. I wanna multimap ecu so I can run as much HP on the street as possible on 91 and then 101 Trick gas(right around the corner from me for $4.50/gallon) for the drag strip. It'll end up being a street legal race car.
> 
> ...


An auto si better for towing and off road so its staying auto. The RB is an easy sway in a 240, their are kits to do it even. Its also a lot easier motor to get 1000 hp out of, there are bolt on solutions for this kind of power with an RB.


----------



## alexnds (Oct 1, 2005)

*improving power in vg30e*



morepower2 said:


> I don't like SUV's and I don't want to spend any more money on one than I have to! Plus the old pathfinder has better brakes, stronger body on frame construction and much better off road capabilty. The motor I am going to build has 260 hp and more torque than the VQ stock.
> 
> Mike


I am extremely, extremely interested in learing about how you will make the VG30e engine in your Pathfinder make 260 HP naturally aspirated. I know it has a very strong bottom end, but the intake manifold and upper breaking limit power to about 170HP with stock stuff. I'm owner of a 1993 Nissan Maxima and the same basic VG30e engine. Would love to learn how you're doing it, what parts you'll buy and so forth, to make about an extra 100 Horse than what you have now. I like the torque delivery of the VG engine family and I have a 2001 VQ engine as well, in a 2001 Maxima and even thought it has more power, it is a nicer torque band in the older VG engine in my opinion. I love my old 3rd Generation Maxima and any ideas of improving the VG30 engine in a Pathfinder should be equally applicable to the older Maxima as well I think.

Please keep us all posted! Keep up the good work!


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

alexnds said:


> I am extremely, extremely interested in learing about how you will make the VG30e engine in your Pathfinder make 260 HP naturally aspirated. I know it has a very strong bottom end, but the intake manifold and upper breaking limit power to about 170HP with stock stuff. I'm owner of a 1993 Nissan Maxima and the same basic VG30e engine. Would love to learn how you're doing it, what parts you'll buy and so forth, to make about an extra 100 Horse than what you have now. I like the torque delivery of the VG engine family and I have a 2001 VQ engine as well, in a 2001 Maxima and even thought it has more power, it is a nicer torque band in the older VG engine in my opinion. I love my old 3rd Generation Maxima and any ideas of improving the VG30 engine in a Pathfinder should be equally applicable to the older Maxima as well I think.
> 
> Please keep us all posted! Keep up the good work!


read this series.

http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/projects/pathfinder.php


----------



## mann777 (Jul 15, 2006)

I fully agree with jadcock on the modern vehicles modification , as they can easily acheived, I had a friend of mine who did his mods on the chevy blazer, this what i have seen to his stock engine. He piggybacks his stoch ECU and also modulated the torque convertor. What happens is the High Flow Intake system adjusts the air-fuel ratio to optimal settings in conjunction with the Intake system. I think stock intake system from pathfinder has deficiencies in supplying air needed by the engine.This system helps the engine breath much better and give the car quicker acceleration and much crisper throttle response in the entire RPM range. Performance gains: +9-12% HP and +9-12% torque.
The mods carried were on the manifold, exhausts , piggyback ecu, and torque convertor using The material choice was ductile Iron because of its superior properties in turbo manifold applications such as excellent crack resistance, high temperature .


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

mann777 said:


> I fully agree with jadcock on the modern vehicles modification , as they can easily acheived, I had a friend of mine who did his mods on the chevy blazer, this what i have seen to his stock engine. He piggybacks his stoch ECU and also modulated the torque convertor. What happens is the High Flow Intake system adjusts the air-fuel ratio to optimal settings in conjunction with the Intake system. I think stock intake system from pathfinder has deficiencies in supplying air needed by the engine.This system helps the engine breath much better and give the car quicker acceleration and much crisper throttle response in the entire RPM range. Performance gains: +9-12% HP and +9-12% torque.
> The mods carried were on the manifold, exhausts , piggyback ecu, and torque convertor using The material choice was ductile Iron because of its superior properties in turbo manifold applications such as excellent crack resistance, high temperature .


Piggybacks often don't work well as they fight the stock ECU's self learning control. For this reason we had Jim Wolf Technology reprogram our OEM ECU.


----------



## mann777 (Jul 15, 2006)

Morepower it is an exhaustive work but It did work with this one as the following were relooked prior to programming the piggyback ECU such as Custom charged pipe with Bypass Valve flanges, Mass flow Meter or MAF adaptor,
Vortech Maxflow Adjustable Bypass Valve (BV). What one needs to to do is install at Stage II kits which is available easily off the shelfs with larger intercoolers ensure to have atleast 10psi and larger injectors to this engine Dyno needs to recoiled with better amp rating.. The 10 psi intercooled kits will require slightly larger injectors. The stock fuel should able to supply enough fuel for the 10 psi. The larger injectors will be compensated by the OEM ECU. Stock injector are around 190cc/min. this will have to be upgraded to 295 cc/min. The piggy back ECU can compensate up to 50% reduction. The rule is ECU picks up faulty codes, ECU will generally output fault codes for speed sensor and exhaust sensor if they are not connected (however, the engines run fine without these sensors).The vast majority of engines have the wiring loom snipped at the firewall, and often as not where the AFM and igniter sub loom peels off towards the side/rear of the RH head as well. The main loom has around 80 wires in it; to run as a manual trans set up you need about 30 of these wires. Provided you have the right diagram it becomes a case of tracing each wire on the engine and then splicing it to the patch loom correctly to suit the ECU. You must ensure you use screened wire for the cam angle, RPM, exhaust and knock sensors. The good news is that the on-engine sensors are the same irrespective of the donor vehicle The bad news is that the plug locking catches get very brittle and tend to break off, so try not to remove plugs unless you have to, to check continuity etc. 
He has used standard 30 amp accessory relays for EFI Main Relay, Injection Relay and Starter Solenoid Relay, plus a factory circuit open fuel pump control relay And has used 5 fuses, which are EFI and Injection at 20 amps each, plus 7.5 Amps for Charge, start relay trigger and Ignition trigger for the Injection Relay. By doing this the car power feeds can all come directly from the battery and all one need is some 5 amp rated 7-core trailer flex for ‘start’ and ‘run’ trigger signals from the ignition switch. 
From what i have seen the pathy generally the V6 uses a sensor on the back of the trans as the primary speed signal, however, this signal is processed by the ABS system and then output to the ECU. Therefore, if you don’t have the ABS system this will not work.

I have to say this the mods carried were enormous, such as Idle speed controller, ECU , diagnostics, wirings , Alternator, Ignition Systems, Airflow meter, Trac control,sparkplugs, cam belts,exhaust manifold and systems. This collegeau of mine is a Aircraft Avionics specialist, and he keeps doing this mods on his chevy, Lastl but not the least To be honest, I would recommend ensuring any Sparky you intend using has either done the job before or has demonstrable suitable experience. Rule of thumb, tidy work is good, untidy is bad. Last thing you need is to take someone on who sounds too cheap to be true, that ends up experimenting with your vehicle to figure out how to do it, with the risk that it never quite runs right (if at all). To say nothing of what ends up being an open ended chequebook…


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

mann777 said:


> Morepower it is an exhaustive work but It did work with this one as the following were relooked prior to programming the piggyback ECU such as Custom charged pipe with Bypass Valve flanges, Mass flow Meter or MAF adaptor,
> Vortech Maxflow Adjustable Bypass Valve (BV). What one needs to to do is install at Stage II kits which is available easily off the shelfs with larger intercoolers ensure to have atleast 10psi and larger injectors to this engine Dyno needs to recoiled with better amp rating.. The 10 psi intercooled kits will require slightly larger injectors. The stock fuel should able to supply enough fuel for the 10 psi. The larger injectors will be compensated by the OEM ECU. Stock injector are around 190cc/min. this will have to be upgraded to 295 cc/min. The piggy back ECU can compensate up to 50% reduction. The rule is ECU picks up faulty codes, ECU will generally output fault codes for speed sensor and exhaust sensor if they are not connected (however, the engines run fine without these sensors).The vast majority of engines have the wiring loom snipped at the firewall, and often as not where the AFM and igniter sub loom peels off towards the side/rear of the RH head as well. The main loom has around 80 wires in it; to run as a manual trans set up you need about 30 of these wires. Provided you have the right diagram it becomes a case of tracing each wire on the engine and then splicing it to the patch loom correctly to suit the ECU. You must ensure you use screened wire for the cam angle, RPM, exhaust and knock sensors. The good news is that the on-engine sensors are the same irrespective of the donor vehicle The bad news is that the plug locking catches get very brittle and tend to break off, so try not to remove plugs unless you have to, to check continuity etc.
> He has used standard 30 amp accessory relays for EFI Main Relay, Injection Relay and Starter Solenoid Relay, plus a factory circuit open fuel pump control relay And has used 5 fuses, which are EFI and Injection at 20 amps each, plus 7.5 Amps for Charge, start relay trigger and Ignition trigger for the Injection Relay. By doing this the car power feeds can all come directly from the battery and all one need is some 5 amp rated 7-core trailer flex for ‘start’ and ‘run’ trigger signals from the ignition switch.
> From what i have seen the pathy generally the V6 uses a sensor on the back of the trans as the primary speed signal, however, this signal is processed by the ABS system and then output to the ECU. Therefore, if you don’t have the ABS system this will not work.
> ...


I don't know if you are talking about a Chevy or Nissan but this won't work well with a Nissan, you need larger injectors to run 10 psi of boost, about 440cc/min. The stock ECU won't work with these as the self learning correction factor is only 25% and this is for closed loop only, not open loop. Also if you use a interceptor type piggyback, you not only fight the self learning loop but you also place the spark map in the wrong cells for the amount of air flow seen, not good for a FA engine. If you exceed 25% correction with these tweeker boxes ala Apexi AFC et al, you go into limp home mode.

If you do a sort of piggyback on a Nissan, it must completly bypass the stock spark and fuel tuning and provide its own maps based on sensor input otherwise you will have problems.

For GM products I am ignorant on what will work.


----------



## HighDesertNissan (May 26, 2006)

MorePOwer2 - What if any real world torque/hp gains do you think one could get by adding the Massive q45(VH45dev8) Maf and possibly Throttle body to the VG30/33E engine? I know Cobra Mustang MAF swap is popular for Turbo Charged Applications and the q45 MAF is even more massive then the later. 

I'm curious though if one would c a HP gain to justify the cost with a N/A trim Nissan engine with the above mentioned massive parts?

Also, while we're on the subject of SOHC VG engines? Do you know how much HP the stock Pathfinder intake plenum can flow for boosted applications before it needs to be extrude honed?

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna end up with an AEBS Stroker kit in a VQ35de(Vq43de) for my 240sx project as I want as much displacement as possibe without going to a heavier V8 engine like the VH45de. Imagine the utter lack of turbo lag with Twin Garret *Disco Potatoes* spooled by a 4.3L VQ V6! Hell, with that kind of displacement one could easily go to 30 or later trim turbos and still have those things online and fully screaming @ under 4500K rpm. Most everything but the engine and tranny are done so I need to make up my mind. The body is all JDM Sivia bades and body parts with a gorgeous custom metallic black paint job.....totally classy!

The RB Engines are awesome but I don't know why Nissan didn't make them with more displacement?


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

HighDesertNissan said:


> MorePOwer2 - What if any real world torque/hp gains do you think one could get by adding the Massive q45(VH45dev8) Maf and possibly Throttle body to the VG30/33E engine? I know Cobra Mustang MAF swap is popular for Turbo Charged Applications and the q45 MAF is even more massive then the later.
> 
> I'm curious though if one would c a HP gain to justify the cost with a N/A trim Nissan engine with the above mentioned massive parts?
> 
> ...


In my testing and Nissan Motorsports testing the larger TB and MAF don't make for a huge gain in power, we just got a couple of hp from the big stuff. Same thing with an Extrude hone manfiold, not much gains.

You might want to wait until the VQ35HR comes out in a few more months, this engine is much stronger and is probably deisgned to take turbo boost.

Look for a secret view of this motor in NPM's september issue.


----------



## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> I don't know if you are talking about a Chevy or Nissan but this won't work well with a Nissan, you need larger injectors to run 10 psi of boost, about 440cc/min. The stock ECU won't work with these as the self learning correction factor is only 25% and this is for closed loop only, not open loop. Also if you use a interceptor type piggyback, you not only fight the self learning loop but you also place the spark map in the wrong cells for the amount of air flow seen, not good for a FA engine. If you exceed 25% correction with these tweeker boxes ala Apexi AFC et al, you go into limp home mode.
> 
> If you do a sort of piggyback on a Nissan, it must completly bypass the stock spark and fuel tuning and provide its own maps based on sensor input otherwise you will have problems.
> 
> For GM products I am ignorant on what will work.


For the VG30i, a SC running up to 15 psi will work fine with the stock injectors and ECU. Been done by L&P Performance in Indiana, and the stock engine Lee did the work on took the boost just fine for quite some time. He went back to NA to fine-tune the SC mounting and intake positions, though. Just so you know. 

Also, was there someone saying the VG30E wouldn't support more than 170 HP in stock form? *cough*_BULLSHIT_*cough*


----------



## HighDesertNissan (May 26, 2006)

88pathoffroad said:


> For the VG30i, a SC running up to 15 psi will work fine with the stock injectors and ECU. Been done by L&P Performance in Indiana, and the stock engine Lee did the work on took the boost just fine for quite some time. He went back to NA to fine-tune the SC mounting and intake positions, though. Just so you know.
> 
> Also, was there someone saying the VG30E wouldn't support more than 170 HP in stock form? *cough*_BULLSHIT_*cough*


I've seen you post on their board.L&P Performance is good people from what I can tell.. They're doing the Mild PortNPolishing on my VG heads. I can't stand SuperCharged applications on sports cars because of sparatic losses but they can be great for Trucks/Suvs!

As for somone saying the VG engine can only handle 170HP..lmfao. That's the most ludacris statment I've ever heard on the net and I've heard plenty. Obviously some 13 year old had a bad copy of Need for Speed!

The VG engines are still one of the best kept tuner secrets on the planet. The VG 30's can be had for under $500 if you look hard enough. THe stock VG engines have proven to RELIABLY hold 500+crank HP on the stock engine. One just needs to have a great tune and keep detonation in check(Like any boosted application). After that HP level it's usually the ring lands that go on the pistons. If one adds Forged pistons(BRC would be my top choice by far) ARP head studs, Main studs and ROd bolts to the stock engine(all the stock VG engines have strong forged rods...they aren't Carrilo H-Beams but they can handle serious power) one can run some AWESOME power levels.

MorePower - Thanks for your response. I think you misunderstood my question or I wasn't clear enough. I'm very aware that the stock Pathfinder VG Plenum can breath some serious HP and it would surely be a waste of money to Extrude HOne the Plenum for a N/A application. I was wondering if you knew how much HP the Plenum can support for boost before the Plenum becomes a bottleneck? Unlike the RB Engienes and the SR20det, their isn't allot of aftermarket support for VG engines when it comes to high performance intake manifolds.

Peace


----------



## alexnds (Oct 1, 2005)

*developing power in VG30e*



HighDesertNissan said:


> I've seen you post on their board.L&P Performance is good people from what I can tell.. They're doing the Mild PortNPolishing on my VG heads. I can't stand SuperCharged applications on sports cars because of sparatic losses but they can be great for Trucks/Suvs!
> 
> As for somone saying the VG engine can only handle 170HP..lmfao. That's the most ludacris statment I've ever heard on the net and I've heard plenty. Obviously some 13 year old had a bad copy of Need for Speed!
> 
> ...


I'm proud owner of 1993 Nissan Maxima with VG30e engine. I have Warspeed Y-pipe and cold air intake. I do not have Jim Wolf ECU upgrade chip yet at this time. I can not afford turbo path to more power, or the budget for it. My engine is 146k miles. I do not want to put underdrive pulley because I don't want to underdrive my accessories


----------



## HighDesertNissan (May 26, 2006)

alexnds said:


> I'm proud owner of 1993 Nissan Maxima with VG30e engine. I have Warspeed Y-pipe and cold air intake. I do not have Jim Wolf ECU upgrade chip yet at this time. I can not afford turbo path to more power, or the budget for it. My engine is 146k miles. I do not want to put underdrive pulley because I don't want to underdrive my accessories



SO are you asking what mods I or MoreSpeed would reco for a naturally aspirated VG30E builder looking for more power on a low budget? I'm very experienced but the original poster might be better suited for helping you out. Please elaborate on your goals?


MorePOwer _ now that I'm thinking about it. Have you thought about the *Morgans Cam gears* that are regarded as the best, no slip gears amongst vg lovers for squizing more power out of her? Maybe a N/A timing tweak would rock?

Also, now that I'm thinking about it? Ironic as it may be with the above poster, have you thought about lightweightpulleys? NO offense please but your surely getting more free(or substantially discounted) goodies then the majority of posters here and finding out how you can squeeze every N/A hP outta the good ole VG is surely good for everyone!!!

Not to continue to deviate off subject but after much discource amongst Nissan lovers and enginees I've gone back(ironic again) to my OG plans of a VG engine for my twin turbo powered 240sx/S14 sick ass hp project. Here's the bottom line....

Yeah, the Rb engine is great ....yadda yadda , bragging rights and I'd give my left leg for a Skyline R34 GT-R, their's a PLETHORA of after market support but the bottom line is that the Rb26dett doesn't have enough displacement for my tastes. YOu and I both know that more displacemebt ='s faster spooled larger turbos.

The IDea(even with serious cashoutlay) of an AEBS stroker kit in an overpriced VQ35de engine(that I already have) giving one a 4.3 bored, sleeved and forged engine is great but why spend the money? YOu and I both know that with proper tuning, gearing and driving that my 3.6 with excelllent chosen turbos will have the same peak as the later.

A Nissan V8 is outta the question as even the lighweight VH45de isn't cutting the mustard for my strength tastes and it's still heavier then a stroked and bored VG.

So.......

I'm going to build one of the worlds first or one of very, very few VG36ETT......I was thinking about swapping out the VG30DETT heads giving myself a vg36dett but I"m not going for insane HP anymore but sick HP with little if no lag. Hell, a these amateur tuners have these bent idealogies of SOHC being vastly inferior to DOHC when the reality is that it's all about tuned flow and properly applying your uuuhhh variables THe 3.6L of displacement will be curtosy of a JUN(oh yeah) stroker camshaft from one of their awesome but even more awesomely overpriced stroker kits(.2L added) where I did just a shaft trade, the bore willl be a vg33e engine with custom forged BRC pistons giving me 3.4L. I'll have to machine the snout for the harmonic balancer and yadda yadda but I'll have an amazing crank that can surely support insane HP. Add in a Toga HV oil pump and all ARP bolts/studs and we be rocking. I'm going to sell the rods on e-bay as I'm putting in Carrilo H-beam rods with Carr bolts! Some might say overkill but I want the best.


I'll update soon


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

HighDesertNissan said:


> SO are you asking what mods I or MoreSpeed would reco for a naturally aspirated VG30E builder looking for more power on a low budget? I'm very experienced but the original poster might be better suited for helping you out. Please elaborate on your goals?
> 
> 
> MorePOwer _ now that I'm thinking about it. Have you thought about the *Morgans Cam gears* that are regarded as the best, no slip gears amongst vg lovers for squizing more power out of her? Maybe a N/A timing tweak would rock?
> ...


The DETT heads won't fit, they are 4 bolt instead of 5 bolt. Castillo can modfy your crank for a fraction of a JUN crank. Its probably better to start with a DETT crank like we did. Casitllo cranks are really strong.

Steve Mitchells VG34ET made 579 whp and 599 lb/ft of torque. It has almost no turbo lag with a big GT40 turbo.


----------



## alexnds (Oct 1, 2005)

Thanks guys for all the great info. I want to stick to naturally aspirated application. I know the VG30e engine is capable of alot of power, and have been made to be very powerful cars. I'm thinking of following: MSD ignition box to increase hotness of the spark. Timing change to improve things a bit further, with premium gas of course, and perhaps a fuel pressure regulator added in? I want to go from about 165HP to about 230 HP, naturally aspirated. What do you think is the right combo for this sort of thing? Can you please send me URL links for the parts required? Much thanks in advance. You guys are advanced engine builders compared to me. I want streetable power level, not insane racing power in the 500+HP range.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

alexnds said:


> Thanks guys for all the great info. I want to stick to naturally aspirated application. I know the VG30e engine is capable of alot of power, and have been made to be very powerful cars. I'm thinking of following: MSD ignition box to increase hotness of the spark. Timing change to improve things a bit further, with premium gas of course, and perhaps a fuel pressure regulator added in? I want to go from about 165HP to about 230 HP, naturally aspirated. What do you think is the right combo for this sort of thing? Can you please send me URL links for the parts required? Much thanks in advance. You guys are advanced engine builders compared to me. I want streetable power level, not insane racing power in the 500+HP range.


We are getting just that level of crank power from project pathfinder but with 87 octane. Please refer to the project pathfinder articles at NPM.


----------



## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

alexnds said:


> Thanks guys for all the great info. I want to stick to naturally aspirated application. I know the VG30e engine is capable of alot of power, and have been made to be very powerful cars. I'm thinking of following: MSD ignition box to increase hotness of the spark. Timing change to improve things a bit further, with premium gas of course, and perhaps a fuel pressure regulator added in? I want to go from about 165HP to about 230 HP, naturally aspirated. What do you think is the right combo for this sort of thing? Can you please send me URL links for the parts required? Much thanks in advance. You guys are advanced engine builders compared to me. I want streetable power level, not insane racing power in the 500+HP range.


Doesn't ask for much, does he?


----------



## alexnds (Oct 1, 2005)

*asking for too much*



88pathoffroad said:


> Doesn't ask for much, does he?


You don't think that going from 165 HP to 200 or maybe 230 HP is too much?
Hey, people come for advice, not sarcastic feedback. I have posted repeatedly and have posted links to motorvane.com dyno results where an additional 35 HP at the crank, over any rpm rpm range was achieved, with basic improvements in breathing,i.e: Warspeed Y-pipe and ignition timing and cold air intake. So to go from 165 to about 195 HP was not unreasonable. Some people are advanced engine builders that post, others are amateur hobby mechanics but as a whole, we have an avid interest in sharing information and helping each other. I've found the site as a whole to be full of nice guys sharing info without any sarcasm directed by anyone to anyone else.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

alexnds said:


> I have posted repeatedly and have posted links to motorvane.com dyno results where an additional 35 HP at the crank, over any rpm rpm range was achieved, with basic improvements in breathing,i.e: Warspeed Y-pipe and ignition timing and cold air intake. So to go from 165 to about 195 HP was not unreasonable.


It sounds like a lot of power with just that. Typicaly a CAI gains about 4-6 hp on a VG, advancing the timing is good for another 4-5 hp and an exhaust is good for about 6-10. Thats 21 or so hp.


----------



## jetski_waxhead (Sep 17, 2005)

i just did a mod to my pathfinder today that worked better than expected
i put manula loking hubs on the fron so it doesnt spin the drive shaft all the time
the difference is awesome 
Its so much better to drive

the next thing on the list is a set of early z31 cams
i am hoping to be able to run these with out a computer change

more pwer 
do you have any idea what the std z31 cams would add to my engine
i will go for a set of headers afterwards but as its a r50 no one seems to make headers for them


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jetski_waxhead said:


> i just did a mod to my pathfinder today that worked better than expected
> i put manula loking hubs on the fron so it doesnt spin the drive shaft all the time
> the difference is awesome
> Its so much better to drive
> ...


Old Z31 cams do nothing unless you have a newer VG33 which has really small cams, even then the difference is too small to make much of a difference.


----------



## jetski_waxhead (Sep 17, 2005)

ok thanks
i have the newer vg33 in my pathfinder

i am looking for a way to upgrade the cams and retain the std computer 
i dont wish to get a lumpy idle as i drive this car every day


----------



## HighDesertNissan (May 26, 2006)

alexnds said:


> Thanks guys for all the great info. I want to stick to naturally aspirated application. I know the VG30e engine is capable of alot of power, and have been made to be very powerful cars. I'm thinking of following: MSD ignition box to increase hotness of the spark. Timing change to improve things a bit further, with premium gas of course, and perhaps a fuel pressure regulator added in? I want to go from about 165HP to about 230 HP, naturally aspirated. What do you think is the right combo for this sort of thing? Can you please send me URL links for the parts required? Much thanks in advance. You guys are advanced engine builders compared to me. I want streetable power level, not insane racing power in the 500+HP range.



Hey bro,

Here's the reality. No dis whatsoever but I'm assuming that your not rich with tons of money to burn if your driving an older Maxima. More often then not it's VERY expensive to extract serious HP from any Naturally Aspirated(n/a) engine. This rule of thumb definitely follows with the VG as one can easily c with this great thread. Just those Nissan Motor Sports#2 Cams alone are gonna run one $600.00. Nissan offers some excellent cams sold under the Nismo name that will offer a significant power increase WITHOUT any idle lope but they're still gonna run you $400-$600! Nissan never made the 3.3L V6 for transverse mounting(front wheel drive like your Maxima) so Dropping in a VG33E would be more money then it's worth as this would require significant tranny and drivetrain mods. Unless your best friend is a machinist& pro mechanic willing to work for cheap, Boring out and Building engines get's VERY expensive very fast. A JWT tuned ECU is gonna run $500+ dollars just for the basic shelf tune. You will need some sort of engine/fuel manegment over the stock ecu for any turbo application though. The Romulator is awesome with proper tuning.

The bottom line is that with your relatively low power goals you could easily build a fast *JUnkyard Turbocharged* Maxima for less then what it would cost to reach lower power levels with a built N/A engine like Project Pathfinder. THe maxima is a completely different animal then a Pahtfinder and even with 400+ crank HP you'd have little if any turbo lag. 

ALso, If you invest allot of money into a Maxima VG engine your not going to have NEAR the resale value that you would with a Pathfinder (front to back- rear wheel drive) engine. If you only invested in basic bolt on's you could part out if/when your ready to sell but your not going to c much if any of your money back if you invest in machining. The VG engines for rear wheel driving mounting like those in the Pathfinders, Hardbodys and Xterras will still be popular engine swaps in 6+ years. 

Check out some of the Maxima specific forums as their's weeks of great reading on turbocharging a Maxima for minimal cost. 

Turbo or not, I'd HIGHLY reco that you check E-bay and abroad for some Excellent Condition *Morgans Cams gears*. The gains on a Turbo charged engine are significant in torque with lil loss of HP and even N/a gains should be worth the install and tuning.

If you buy any expensive cams have them Parkerized. THis is an ole secret of the pros. IMHO ALL performance cams should come from the factory parkerized. Cams don't break like Piston Ring lands or even rods but they do wear. Parkerizing will significantly reduce wear on your cams giving them lots of life whether you keep them or sell them.

ALmost forgot. As far as Ignition and fuel pressure regulators go. Your stock Stuff is MORE then capable of handling what you want to throw @ it whether boosted or N/a. Their's a plehtora of misinformation when it comes to aftermarket ignition systems. For most people upgrading the ignition is a bloody waste of money better spent on a nice stash of Full Synthetic oil. You wouldn't need either of the later updgrades with even 500hp and I wouldn't be suprised if you saw less then 3HP @ the wheels with an aftermarket ignition with unless your going to 700ish HP! I don't know when the Stock VG Fuel Pressure Regulators become a bottleneck but their's plenty of guys running 500+ whp on the stock units. Nissan Builds great Sh*T!

Peace and Good LUck

Morepower2 - Gratsi for the bolt info. I could have sworn that I read @ least ten examples of tuners swapping the VG30dett heads easily onto the VG30e/VG33e. I already have the Jun crankshaft.......it's gorgeous...just needs the same machine work the forged VG30dett crank needs.

Peace


----------



## zagan (Nov 19, 2006)

This is really good.

I've just bought a 1991 Terrano/Pathfinder, it's got the TD27T not a petrol engine, huals very well, works great in the sand .

Anyway, I'll look over the project and the posts here some really good stuff here.

I've been thinking about doing up the suspension I think it's all good on my pathfinder, the socks don't sqeek etc though, I think it's dropped a little bit as the front maybe rear as well as there's not much clearance for some of the stuff under it.

What made you pick the rancho suspension? also what sort of coils did you put in the back.

No idea if you have the suspension setting changer I guess you do, but when you swapped the shocks what did you have to do about this part.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

zagan said:


> This is really good.
> 
> I've just bought a 1991 Terrano/Pathfinder, it's got the TD27T not a petrol engine, huals very well, works great in the sand .
> 
> ...


If you read the article, we used Nissan Motorsports coils.


----------



## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

alexnds said:


> You don't think that going from 165 HP to 200 or maybe 230 HP is too much?
> Hey, people come for advice, not sarcastic feedback. I have posted repeatedly and have posted links to motorvane.com dyno results where an additional 35 HP at the crank, over any rpm rpm range was achieved, with basic improvements in breathing,i.e: Warspeed Y-pipe and ignition timing and cold air intake. So to go from 165 to about 195 HP was not unreasonable. Some people are advanced engine builders that post, others are amateur hobby mechanics but as a whole, we have an avid interest in sharing information and helping each other. I've found the site as a whole to be full of nice guys sharing info without any sarcasm directed by anyone to anyone else.


I wasn't poking fun at your goal, just the requests for URL's and answers. Can you not use search engines and read things yourself sometimes? Go wash the sand out of your vagina, please.


----------



## cole (Jan 29, 2006)

*Take a pill*

take a pill people. He ain't putting u down, just giving u info. He's giving u good info too. Besides, intelligent, stuck up people(when it comes to their craft or passion), usually know what there talking about. 35 HP, from intake, exaust & timing is some thing to be proud of. U ain't gettin' much more, unless u build your own engine.


----------



## jetski_waxhead (Sep 17, 2005)

Ok i have some cams i brought and i am ready to get them ground
Morepower can you recomend a duration thats not going to give me a good idle that will work with a std computer and still deliever a performance increase
Gee i dont want much to i Ha ha


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

jetski_waxhead said:


> Ok i have some cams i brought and i am ready to get them ground
> Morepower can you recomend a duration thats not going to give me a good idle that will work with a std computer and still deliever a performance increase
> Gee i dont want much to i Ha ha


I recomend that you don't try to make your own cams. There is a lot of engineering behind them and small idnepedent cam grinders don't understand how to grind shim and bucket follower shape lobes, not to mention coil bind height, etc of the particular head. They also won't understand the harmonics, lobe center spacing, max lift, etc of this particular engine.

Buy the recomended cams.


----------



## jetski_waxhead (Sep 17, 2005)

ok fair enough
i am looking at the figures on the z31 website that talk about cams but it doesnt show if they are measured at 50 thou so i am not sure what camshafts i am really getting 

i cant compare to other one correctly


----------



## jetski_waxhead (Sep 17, 2005)

can an you please post a link to the nissan motorsport website so i can see where to buy


----------



## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

Google is your friend... - NISSAN MOTORSPORTS INTERNATIONAL OFFICIAL SITE -


----------



## jetski_waxhead (Sep 17, 2005)

I deserve that 
I was hoping there was one that was in a language i could understand


----------



## jetski_waxhead (Sep 17, 2005)

thats the nismo site anyway and its not the one i was after

the nissan motorsport usa site was the one
i have found it


----------



## alexnds (Oct 1, 2005)

*low power gains for old car*



HighDesertNissan said:


> Hey bro,
> 
> Here's the reality. No dis whatsoever but I'm assuming that your not rich with tons of money to burn if your driving an older Maxima. More often then not it's VERY expensive to extract serious HP from any Naturally Aspirated(n/a) engine. This rule of thumb definitely follows with the VG as one can easily c with this great thread. Just those Nissan Motor Sports#2 Cams alone are gonna run one $600.00. Nissan offers some excellent cams sold under the Nismo name that will offer a significant power increase WITHOUT any idle lope but they're still gonna run you $400-$600! Nissan never made the 3.3L V6 for transverse mounting(front wheel drive like your Maxima) so Dropping in a VG33E would be more money then it's worth as this would require significant tranny and drivetrain mods. Unless your best friend is a machinist& pro mechanic willing to work for cheap, Boring out and Building engines get's VERY expensive very fast. A JWT tuned ECU is gonna run $500+ dollars just for the basic shelf tune. You will need some sort of engine/fuel manegment over the stock ecu for any turbo application though. The Romulator is awesome with proper tuning.
> 
> ...


Your reply is very well thought out and highly appreciated. This car is not my primary driving car, and you're right, spending alot of money on FWD card, with the goal of adding about 50 HP to the stock engine is not economically practical, considering the fact, that the car as a whole is not worth very much in real dollars, but is worth to me only in terms of some sentimental value. That's the only reason I keep the car at all. That being said, a project like Project Pathfinder, while excellent for information, involves machine work and headwork that gave outstanding results on a naturally aspirated VG family engine but the results are not directly applicable to a close Front Wheel drive cousin. The dollars to performace achieved is better accomplished with a turbo, which will cost far less, and can probably easily push the engine to about 210 HP. I've seen articles describing how to do it with the VG30dett,and custom exhaust being done to route the exhaust gases to spin the turbo. I would appreciate any URL links to morgan cam gears you've suggested, any input on the size of the bigger injectors needed, and where to get the software for the ECU that will help adjust air-to-fuel ratio and fuel map once under turbo pressure. I'm familiar with JWT website. Any help from yourself or fellow members highly appreciated.


----------



## walter (Apr 18, 2007)

2000 nissan pathfinder timing 

I need a diagram for the timing, of the nissan pathfinder SE 2000


----------



## walter (Apr 18, 2007)

I need a diagram for the timing, of the nissan pathfinder SE 2000 VG33E


----------



## djyamyam (Aug 23, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> I recomend that you don't try to make your own cams. There is a lot of engineering behind them and small idnepedent cam grinders don't understand how to grind shim and bucket follower shape lobes, not to mention coil bind height, etc of the particular head. They also won't understand the harmonics, lobe center spacing, max lift, etc of this particular engine.
> 
> Buy the recomended cams.


Will the 262 cams work on 2005 Nissan PF 4.0L engine? 

I had put the 262s in my 97 PF and they were fine with a little bit of loping. I want the torque gains as opposed to the upper end HP gains. The cams referred to early posts from 4x4.com give gains in the 2800 - 3200 RPM range in the 2005 version. I'd like to see gains more in the 1500 - 2500 RPM range. I think someone had mentioned JWT supercharging elsewhere but that gives gains primarily in the 4000 - 6000 range.


----------



## tsykes31 (Feb 25, 2011)

*I'm selling my Pathfinder SE Leather*

I have to let the Pathfinder go, is anyone interested?

2007 SE, Leather, 2WD, DVD, Bose, excellent condition.

$17950

on autotrader

Cars for Sale: 2007 Nissan Pathfinder SE 2WD in RANDLEMAN, NC 27317: Sport Utility Details - 286398697 - AutoTrader.com


----------



## brewfood (Apr 23, 2011)

does the 2002 pathfinder chilkoot 3.5 V6 have a timing belt/chain that needs routine replacement?


----------



## Sonicwoosh1 (Mar 17, 2020)

any updates towards the build ? anything more done to it ?


----------

