# yet another 370cc problem



## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

ok, i got new orings, and installed my 37s in my ga16...not when i go to crank it up, it is on the brink of stating, but WONT...i just put in my jwt ecu also...any ideas?

all vaccuum are hooked up...

its wanting to start, but just ends up stuttering, and never ends up starting....


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

YOu put the fuse back in from when you let out the fuel pressure???


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

James said:


> YOu put the fuse back in from when you let out the fuel pressure???


ummm...im a dumbass and forgot to de pressurize the fuel system befopre i started, but i stopped in the middle of putting them in, remembered, and took the fuse out....its back in now


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

so is it starting? 

did you use a bit of lube on the orings before putting them on?


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

no its not starting, and no i didnt put lube on the o rings...they seemed to be sitting in there nice and snug...


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

pull the plugs, see if they're wet... let them air out a little bit.


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

you think i flooded it? thats what i originally htought...it still smells of gas...


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

yeah that's what I'm thinkin cuz if you run an injector without the oring then it dumps a lot of fuel in! 

OH, don't forget to change your oil.


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

im gonna go air out the plugs if hey are wet....ill be back in 5 minutes haha...oh, and i am gonna change my oil when i have to take off the oil pan for the oil return


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

all the plugs were wet, and smelled of gas....so when can i put them back in?


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## Chuck (Nov 19, 2003)

lol, are they dry?.. thats when you can put them back in... it wouldnt hurt to replace the plugs anyways... new injectors, might as well throw in some new plugs... but, make sure the plugs are dry, then crank it up...


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

If your car is a 5-spd, I'd just push-start the car.


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## Chuck (Nov 19, 2003)

now theres an idea..


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

i asked chimmike, and he says i should run the stock ecu with the 370's, until i put the turbo in, which will be a few days....what do you think james, cause i put the ecu in cause your sticky says to.. ahahha


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

well if you use the stock ecu they will be running rich all the time because you have 370cc's in... just run the JWT ecu, you will be perfectly fine and normal and then you can at least know that everything is working before you throw in more parts. 

you get that thing running yet?


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> i asked chimmike, and he says i should run the stock ecu with the 370's, until i put the turbo in, which will be a few days....what do you think james, cause i put the ecu in cause your sticky says to.. ahahha


I ran the 370s with the JWT turbo ECU for several months before installing the turbo. Bump up the timing to ~19 degrees because the turbo program has a very conservative timing map. Even then it will be slower than stock. Don't forget to reset it to 15 degrees before you install the turbo.

Lew


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

He's got a GA16DE Lew, keep your timing at 10 degrees when you install the turbo!


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

i dried the plugs, pu them back in, craNKED it up, and it still sputters but never starts...then i put the stock ecu back in and it didnt change....i crank it up, didnt work, so i checked the plugs again and they are all wet again....i dried them off, put them back in, took them out, and they are wet [email protected]!!!!


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## SE-RtinMI (Nov 3, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> i dried the plugs, pu them back in, craNKED it up, and it still sputters but never starts...then i put the stock ecu back in and it didnt change....i crank it up, didnt work, so i checked the plugs again and they are all wet again....i dried them off, put them back in, took them out, and they are wet [email protected]!!!!


The O rings didn't seat properly. Take the fuel rail out and turn teh key to the "ON" position and make sure they aren't leaking. You need to lube the oustside of the o rings when you drop them in so they don't roll over and twist.


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## Mervic (May 1, 2002)

Maybe the spark plug wires are not in proper order.


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

update...i pulled the fuel pump fuse and it started!!!...it seems like my plugs are bad now, caus eit wont rev high...and it still sputters...i sat there and ran the car for over 5 minutes WITH NO FUEL PUMP!...i guess it got a backed up? anyways, its still messing up a little, but ill le it run with no fuel pump fuse till it cuts off...RIGHT?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

YOu pulled the fuse for the fuse pump and it started... you have problems. Electrical gremlins?


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

James said:


> YOu pulled the fuse for the fuse pump and it started... you have problems. Electrical gremlins?


yea it ran for like 10 minutes with no fuel pump fuse...only smoky ass exhaust and more backfires than the beverly hill billies... :cheers: 
im gonna replace my spark plugs tomorrow..i talked to a friend/mechanic and he said the fuel could have fouled up the plugs....ill keep you posted...


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

maybe there was THAT much fuel in there and it burned out now...


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> update...i pulled the fuel pump fuse and it started!!!...it seems like my plugs are bad now, caus eit wont rev high...and it still sputters...i sat there and ran the car for over 5 minutes WITH NO FUEL PUMP!...i guess it got a backed up? anyways, its still messing up a little, but ill le it run with no fuel pump fuse till it cuts off...RIGHT?


An injected car can run with no fuel pump. The manifold vacume will continue to pull fuel in though the injectors. Belive it or not, a buddy of mine with a tec 3 and a turbo miata tried for a month to get his car right, he kept on increasing the pulse width and got it so wide that the car would actualy run enough to drive with no fuel pump!

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> ok, i got new orings, and installed my 37s in my ga16...not when i go to crank it up, it is on the brink of stating, but WONT...i just put in my jwt ecu also...any ideas?
> 
> all vaccuum are hooked up...
> 
> its wanting to start, but just ends up stuttering, and never ends up starting....


Check to see if the ecu connector is warped. When installing it, turn the bolt a few times and push on the ends of the connector with your thumbs. Repeat until the bolt bottoms. A lot of times the connector bows and the car won't start when changing ecus.

Mike


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

morepower2 said:


> Check to see if the ecu connector is warped. When installing it, turn the bolt a few times and push on the ends of the connector with your thumbs. Repeat until the bolt bottoms. A lot of times the connector bows and the car won't start when changing ecus.
> 
> Mike




ill try that in the morning...thanks...that makes sense, cause the screw is in the middle for some reason...they could have added 2 more, 1 on each side to be safe...but whatever...thanks


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> An injected car can run with no fuel pump. The manifold vacume will continue to pull fuel in though the injectors. Belive it or not, a buddy of mine with a tec 3 and a turbo miata tried for a month to get his car right, he kept on increasing the pulse width and got it so wide that the car would actualy run enough to drive with no fuel pump!
> 
> Mike


Wow I did not know that! What a good thing to know...


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> ill try that in the morning...thanks...that makes sense, cause the screw is in the middle for some reason...they could have added 2 more, 1 on each side to be safe...but whatever...thanks


Even SCC's Dave Coleman made that mistake. Its really common, I hope that was it.

By any chance, was your maf touched at all?

Mike


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

morepower2 said:


> Even SCC's Dave Coleman made that mistake. Its really common, I hope that was it.
> 
> By any chance, was your maf touched at all?
> 
> Mike



yea..i disonnected it when i took off the intake manifold...but its plugged in now, and i kept it in a safe place...


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## Chuck (Nov 19, 2003)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> yea..i disonnected it when i took off the intake manifold...but its plugged in now, and i kept it in a safe place...


hey dude, i am always lookin at your cardomain page to see updated turbo pics.. why dont ya start snappin some shots!


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

Chuck said:


> hey dude, i am always lookin at your cardomain page to see updated turbo pics.. why dont ya start snappin some shots!



because he doesn't have anything done, lol


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> yea..i disonnected it when i took off the intake manifold...but its plugged in now, and i kept it in a safe place...


Did you check the ecu plug yet?

Mike


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

morepower2 said:


> Did you check the ecu plug yet?
> 
> Mike



yea...same problems though


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> yea...same problems though


Is just one cylinder fouled or all of them?

Mike


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

Mike.......he lives near me, however, i have no way of getting over there to take a look and see what's going on.


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

i put in new plugs, started it up, it started leaking fuel again...so i took out the plugs and #3 was black...sooo i guess that ones fucked up?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> yea...same problems though


Ok so you said it ran when you pulled the fuel pump fuse... and you're sure you have the MAF, the ECU and the plug wires in the right order... my question is why the the car run better when you unplugged the fuel pump fuse? maybe you should try cleaning your fuel filter? or maybe its the pump itself?

ok nm, you posted same time as I was typing that...

was that cylinder the same one as the one you ran without an oring on the injector???


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

James said:


> Ok so you said it ran when you pulled the fuel pump fuse... and you're sure you have the MAF, the ECU and the plug wires in the right order... my question is why the the car run better when you unplugged the fuel pump fuse? maybe you should try cleaning your fuel filter? or maybe its the pump itself?
> 
> ok nm, you posted same time as I was typing that...
> 
> was that cylinder the same one as the one you ran without an oring on the injector???



no...different cylinder


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> i put in new plugs, started it up, it started leaking fuel again...so i took out the plugs and #3 was black...sooo i guess that ones fucked up?


Did you pinch the injector seal? Were they new or old injectors?

Mike


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

thye were old injectors....javierb14 used them for a few months i think....what do you mean by PINCH the injectors?


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## SE-RtinMI (Nov 3, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> thye were old injectors....javierb14 used them for a few months i think....what do you mean by PINCH the injectors?


Did you read my post


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> thye were old injectors....javierb14 used them for a few months i think....what do you mean by PINCH the injectors?


I think he means those rubber seals that the fuel rail pops into, not the orings on the inside. If you screwed up the orings again you have to take it all apart all over... Make sure the fuel rail is seated in there tight and there isn't any leak from there, if its tight you don't have to tighten the bolts on the fuel rail too tight.


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

i never took off my fuel rail..i just took off the intake manifold aND TOOK OUT THE INJECTORS WITH A SMALL SCREWDRIVER...WAS THAT OK?
AHHH...my bad all caps


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> i never took off my fuel rail..i just took off the intake manifold aND TOOK OUT THE INJECTORS WITH A SMALL SCREWDRIVER...WAS THAT OK?
> AHHH...my bad all caps


No the seals in the base of the injector, you have to lubricate them and use a lot of care when installing them or you punch the seal and raw gas drips into your motor.

If they are old injectors, they might have gotten gummed up and stuck, put full batter voltage to them in taps, just tap full battery voltage (unplug first) just for as second until you here them click.

It sounds like you pinched a seal though.

Mike


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

morepower2 said:


> No the seals in the base of the injector, you have to lubricate them and use a lot of care when installing them or you punch the seal and raw gas drips into your motor.
> 
> If they are old injectors, they might have gotten gummed up and stuck, put full batter voltage to them in taps, just tap full battery voltage (unplug first) just for as second until you here them click.
> 
> ...



is there a thread or something on this? ive never heard of it...your saying to disonnect my injecotrs (they already are) and tap them on my positive side of my battery until i hear them click?


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> is there a thread or something on this? ive never heard of it...your saying to disonnect my injecotrs (they already are) and tap them on my positive side of my battery until i hear them click?


yea, hook the ground side to the negative on the battery, and run a wire to the postive side and tap it, don't even have your ecu hooked to the injectors or you will fry it.

Mike


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

ok...my battery, intake mani, and injecotrs are OUT of my car...so i can do this on someone else'sy, correct? and which side is the negative side of the injecotrs? im lost...this is hurting my self esteem  haha


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> ok...my battery, intake mani, and injecotrs are OUT of my car...so i can do this on someone else'sy, correct? and which side is the negative side of the injecotrs? im lost...this is hurting my self esteem  haha


Ok if they are out of the car, it doesnt matter. Just get an insulated allgator clip and put it on one terminal, then tap the other to positve, being very careful not to short the two out. Just tap, don't hook it to the battery for more an an instant.

Used injectors that have sit around sometimes gum up and get stuck either open or closed and this sometimes unsticks them.

Mike


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

ok...so it doesnt matter which side of the injector i put negative and/or positive to...right?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> Ok if they are out of the car, it doesnt matter. Just get an insulated allgator clip and put it on one terminal, then tap the other to positve, being very careful not to short the two out. Just tap, don't hook it to the battery for more an an instant.
> Mike


I believed mike answered in that.


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

yea..just makin sure...they arent exactly cheap haha


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

you guys know the "bushing" type thingf that goes in between the top of the injector and the thing you screw onto the fuel rail with? if you do, do you know if we NEED them, because i lost one, and cant find it anywhere...itrs the cusion type little black peice that is/was kinda stuck on the metal cap that screws ontop of the injecotrs and keep them tight against the rail...if we do need them, what can i use as an alternative? ahhhhhhh!!! me---> :dumbass:


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> you guys know the "bushing" type thingf that goes in between the top of the injector and the thing you screw onto the fuel rail with? if you do, do you know if we NEED them, because i lost one, and cant find it anywhere...itrs the cusion type little black peice that is/was kinda stuck on the metal cap that screws ontop of the injecotrs and keep them tight against the rail...if we do need them, what can i use as an alternative? ahhhhhhh!!! me---> :dumbass:



Yes you need them and do not rig it. Buy some from the dealership. Your talking about the black plastic piece that goes between the fuel rail mounting flange and the intake manifold? If so if you try and ssscrew it in place without it you will mess up the alignment of the fuel rail and injectors.


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

wes said:


> Yes you need them and do not rig it. Buy some from the dealership. Your talking about the black plastic piece that goes between the fuel rail mounting flange and the intake manifold? If so if you try and ssscrew it in place without it you will mess up the alignment of the fuel rail and injectors.



check


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## Madmax (Apr 30, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> check



I've sorta read all your post. You want to be carefull with flooding you engine. You may end up killing it. (That's what happend to me). You'll kill the piston rings if you keep that going. The way the GA16DE work from what I've learn with my turbo project is that 370CC with no computer doesn't work. I would definetely get all that turbo stuff installed before you kill your engine and go from there. I don't see the point in putting bigger injectors if you don't really need them.

If you are flooding your engine the only way to start it is to remove the fuse for the fuel pump and it will start. And then you can reinstall the fuse.

Hope everything goes well on you project.

MAx


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

Well you can run the 370cc injectors with the JWT ecu, and I believe its a good idea cuz you when throw a huge load of new parts on at one time and then the car does not work, where did it go wrong? You never know... if you get the car running with the ecu and injectors first you at least know those two items can be ruled out when the poo hits the fan.


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

well, i do need bigger injecotrs, because i have the turbo kit sitting right here...except the forge fmic, which is on its way from jgy ...anyways, about the injectors, the small o-ring is suppose to be up against the peice of plastic that sits above it, correct? its not suppose to sit in the middle of the injector all by itself, right?i might have to draw a pic if no one understands...my cam isnt working...


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

basically, what i mean is...should the small ass o-ring be pushed up against the plastic on the injector, or is it suppose to be kept in place by this little ass crevice that i see by the very tip of the injector....thanks


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## Madmax (Apr 30, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> basically, what i mean is...should the small ass o-ring be pushed up against the plastic on the injector, or is it suppose to be kept in place by this little ass crevice that i see by the very tip of the injector....thanks


The o-ring is supposed to be sitting in between the platic tip and the injeter itself. I know yo need bigger injector for a turbe I`ve honestly been through all that. 

Max


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

While it doesn;t hurt to install them before hand I feel that if stuff is done properly it can all be done at once. You just have to cross all the t's and dot all the i's. 

You should have two different o rings on the injector. The lower ones are what you are supposed to replace with any install and removal. They should sit in a small indent just above the pinsle cap (plastic cap). If your injectors are suspect all together you can always send them to RC engineering where they are cleaned, flow tested and the o-rings and pinsel caps are replaced. I did that with mine before I ever installed them.


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

wes said:


> While it doesn;t hurt to install them before hand I feel that if stuff is done properly it can all be done at once. You just have to cross all the t's and dot all the i's.
> 
> You should have two different o rings on the injector. The lower ones are what you are supposed to replace with any install and removal. They should sit in a small indent just above the pinsle cap (plastic cap). If your injectors are suspect all together you can always send them to RC engineering where they are cleaned, flow tested and the o-rings and pinsel caps are replaced. I did that with mine before I ever installed them.



whoa whoa whoa...the very tip of my injectors are bare metal...no plastic tip...my stock ones came with that little orange cap on the ends of them, but the 370's didnt...is that ok???


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

the injectors can still run without the pintel caps, I'm not quite sure what they do... although just by looking they do keep the oring from slipping off...


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

James said:


> the injectors can still run without the pintel caps, I'm not quite sure what they do... although just by looking they do keep the oring from slipping off...



well what do you think i should do about the bottom o ring coming off, because im sure that was my problem...they were all pressed against the platic peice when i put them on...which is about 1/4" away from where they were suppose to by...what do you guys recommend about keeping the o-rings in that small ass indent? maybe a small dab of liquid adhesive in the indent?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

I think you should get someone that knows what they're doing to help you... I'm not trying to be an ass but you're making one mistake after another.


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

James said:


> I think you should get someone that knows what they're doing to help you... I'm not trying to be an ass but you're making one mistake after another.


i agree..i would love some help...but people around here dont offer any help for free...so i am just gonna have to take my time and do it right by myself...and leave all my questions that i have to you guys....hopefully...i want help, but cant seem to get any thats free...someone whose only gratification is knowing that they helped another car guy out...but not around here


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

Do you have a FSM? I think you should invest in one as the mistakes you make can quickly add up to equal the cost of buying one anyways! The FSM should clear up a lot of your questions...

BTW... don't use adhesive on the injector orings...


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

James said:


> Do you have a FSM? I think you should invest in one as the mistakes you make can quickly add up to equal the cost of buying one anyways! The FSM should clear up a lot of your questions...
> 
> BTW... don't use adhesive on the injector orings...


yea im using the fsm...but i didnt look at it for my injecotr problems...i kinda panicked and came straight to you guys haha...yea...im gonna study this thing


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

oh, and i know i have to buy a new throttle body gasket, because its made of a paper like material...but do i need to buy a new intake manifold gaSket? its metal, so cant it be re-used?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

NotAnotherHonda said:


> oh, and i know i have to buy a new throttle body gasket, because its made of a paper like material...but do i need to buy a new intake manifold gaSket? its metal, so cant it be re-used?


yes you can.


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## Madmax (Apr 30, 2002)

James said:


> the injectors can still run without the pintel caps, I'm not quite sure what they do... although just by looking they do keep the oring from slipping off...


Yes they do keep the o-ring from slipping off. The fuel pressure will be enought to push them down and eventually you'll be leaking gas like there's not tomorrow. That's what happend to me last September. Result the engine was toast, I have bent a connecting rod. I had to replace my engine. If you don't have the plastic cap make sure you get injectors with them on. 

Hope that helps 

MAx


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

well i just called nissan and the guy said that he doesnt know what the pintel cap is...so he looked at a diagram of the injecotr and told me that they do not come seperately...i guess ill have to call rc engineering and see if they have any that will fit?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

yeah I don't see a part number for it, call RC engineering...


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## NotAnotherHonda (Aug 7, 2003)

ok..i shipped them out already to RC...where they will put new o-rings and pentil caps on... they will be back here in 5 days...and ince i have to wait for my fmic anyways, i might as well...thanks guys


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