# 97 Altima: Alternator/Belts?



## zakgord (Jun 11, 2007)

97 Auto/standard Altima: I went out to start the car up today and the dash lights came on with the key in on position then off at start position. Changed key back to on and they are on again. Could hear a bit of a click from the engine i believe....also the overhead light seemed dim. The headlights wouldnt come on and the powerlocks barely work. 

About a month ago i posted about a similar problem with the car needing to be jump started almost every time for about a week....I took the car to Advanced Autoparts and they hooked the battery up and was fine (the computer read 12v on the battery, and the guy said that meant the alternator was working too because it was charging it). I narrowed the problem down to only happening (except once) after the A/C had been running before. So, i just havent used the A/C since and everything had been working. 

Well this morning...see above. So I tried jump starting the car with my sister's....that worked, but when I removed the jumper cables my car died. Im thinking it might have something to do with the A/C or serpentine belt around the alternator not working properly...maybe worn....or just a bad alternator. Should i replace the alternator? I've heard about a bench test being done...more thorough i suppose...who would do this? If Im going to replace the alternator should i replace the belts too...it looks like it would be very difficult to snake the belts around where they need to go.....tight space.


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## zakgord (Jun 11, 2007)

I just checked the voltage on the battery and it was where it should be...12v +/-

So that means the alternator is working properly since the battery is charged, correct?

So why would the headlights not come on with the car off and battery charged? Has to be further back in the electrical diagram...possibly a fuse or wire is loose, poor connection causing the intermittent problem.

Or could it be in the starting system somewhere....starter..solenoid...ignition. Is there an easy way to diagnose these? I guess i just have to work my way through the haynes manual and use my multimeter to try and narrow something down.

But if it at least started when jumped then it should still run with a bad starting system/relay...just like it used to a month ago....but this time was different. It wouldnt stay running after removing the jumper cables...hmmmmm


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## zakgord (Jun 11, 2007)

I just dont get it sometimes. I went out and unhooked the battery, checked a few resistances and conductivity across a few circuits, checked the started fuse, threw the battery back in just to see what it would do... and what do you know, she started up fine. Amazing...

I noted that a few of the clip connections were dirty/greasy so i blew on them a bit (i know some are supposed to have grease) and also tightened the battery cables to the posts more than i usually do. If I remember correctly, all of these electrical issues didnt arrise until after I started fooling around with the ECM and relays while troubleshooting a missfire problem that I still have. Maybe during that process I just never really tightened those cables down all the way and that causes the intermittent problem. (Still doesnt explain the linkage between the A/C running and subsequent failures to start the following day...maybe just a coincidence). We'll see how it goes from here. Thanks for tuning in, hehe.


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## KDragon (Oct 9, 2006)

you can get full voltage from a battery but not full amps. A bad batt connection sounds alot like what you had. and running the a/c with its electric clutch could have been just enough to bring the batt down.


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## zakgord (Jun 11, 2007)

Update: Today i went out to start the car and it started...lasted for about 5 to 10 sec then died. Tried to start it again... less and less power/ sequence in start progression with each attempt. Again the lights didnt work, powerlocks, however the dome light works. Tried undoing the battery connections and retightening them like before. Still no start, however it did seem to attempt to start (click or two)... then not even a click on next start and no dash lights.

I realize that now about testing the battery for voltage but still not having amps. Could possibly be the alternator going out, just slowly dying/intermittent the last few weeks. Reached its toll i suppose now. Maybe that could explain the A/C (belt connecting to the alternator...using its power to charge the battery?) causing a no start on next try as i explained previously. Now instead not running the A/C doesnt even allow for a start. 

I believe i will remove the alternator and have it tested...try and check some of the wires/coil. I am having trouble understanding the haynes manual (starter and ignition/coil testing procedures). Not sure what everything is and what exactly needs to be done with my multimeter. Hopefully my friend will help tomorrow.

P.S. driving home last night (before my latest failure to start) i noticed my car surging/dying periodically during the final 2-4 minutes of the drive. Every few hundred yards it seemed it would act like it wanted to stall/losing power. Maybe another sign the alternator going bad.


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## zakgord (Jun 11, 2007)

Further research online of the problem (googling) shows many signs of a poor starter.
Does this sound very likely?
What are some ways to test this?
Where exactly is it located. I assume they are referring to the starter motor/solenoid and i should access it from under the car?


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## glynka (Aug 18, 2007)

Charge the Battery,start the engine and disconnet the batt cable,if engine keep running, the alternator is OK,if die you have bad alternator,chek the ground cable from engine to de batt,and install aditional ground to the chassis,try to install a voltimeter,because the Batt light never show if your Alt is bad,even if is completely burned .


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## zakgord (Jun 11, 2007)

Ok, i believe i have it fixed now. Jumped the car again, started, removed the cables and it died. We were pretty sure that meant the alternator so we pulled that, had it tested, and sure enough it was dead. Installed the new one, jumped it, unhooked the cables and it stayed running.

Until I turned the A/C on....as usual it bogged the engine down but then it died after a few seconds (this was while the car was just idling in the driveway). We jumped and drove it again, stalled again during reverse. Jumped again and slipped into revers quicker and reved the engine (not giving it a chance to lose rpm and die) that seemed to work. 

Anyways that led us to wondering if the battery was any good. Pulled that, had it tested at Oreily's...said it was charged and working fine, just bad/dirty posts (They looked mostly clean and shiny to me, maybe a thin carbon film of some sort? dunno) So they cleaned them well and we put anti corrosive gel on it. Hooked it all up and its worked fine since then.

So i suppose it was just a bad/intermittent connection from the battery (along with a bad alternator), which would explain why the headlights didnt even work (ruling out starter problem since the headlights run direct off of battery). We also replaced the drive and A/C belts, they were a little worn, and did an oil change. A fun day for the simple home mechanic, learned a lot and appear to have this electrical problem solved. Woot.

Next step: Tackle the engine light/rough idle problem. Going to remove the valve cover and check the valve clearance. Probably next weekend...


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## Altima SSS (Oct 10, 2007)

zakgord said:


> Next step: Tackle the engine light/rough idle problem. Going to remove the valve cover and check the valve clearance. Probably next weekend...


Have you checked the ECU for trouble codes? That would be a good start for the check engine light problem. Valve clearance out of spec will not throw a check engine light.


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## zakgord (Jun 11, 2007)

Yes, this problem has persisted for a while. Has thrown codes 0302 (misfire on 2) and knock sensor code. Ive changed plugs, wires, checked dist/rotor,....all the simple stuff. A mechanic told me it was a burnt valve as soon as he heard the engine running (chug chug chugchugchug chug....). Said I would need a valve job, est $1000....Im in college man....dont have that kind of money for my car...but then again i dont need to ruin this car and buy a new one.

So, i decided i would do something about it. I tried a compression test, so id know for sure if it was a valve...but i couldnt get the dang thing hooked up right (following the haynes manual step by step that is...). Didnt understand what it meant by unhook the main coil such and such and ground it to the engine (if i remember right). I just unhooked one of the two wire coming out of the dist cap (not one o fthe plug wires). Anyways...couldnt get the car to turn over once i had the tool in place (no electrical power).

So, ill give that a try again after some more research/help...ill figure it out eventually. I figured id go ahead and take the valve cover off and check the valves anyways...see how they look. I like to know these things for sure before i blow $1000.

Was thinking about removing the head myself, with a friend's help, and taking that to a machinist and have them do the valve/head work. Would save some $$ i suppose. Anyone have any suggestions?


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## Altima SSS (Oct 10, 2007)

zakgord said:


> So, i decided i would do something about it. I tried a compression test, so id know for sure if it was a valve...but i couldnt get the dang thing hooked up right (following the haynes manual step by step that is...). Didnt understand what it meant by unhook the main coil such and such and ground it to the engine (if i remember right). I just unhooked one of the two wire coming out of the dist cap (not one o fthe plug wires). Anyways...couldnt get the car to turn over once i had the tool in place (no electrical power).


What the manual was refering to was to ground the main coil wire that feeds the distributor so the spark plugs don't fire when the engine is cranked over during the compression test.




zakgord said:


> So, ill give that a try again after some more research/help...ill figure it out eventually. I figured id go ahead and take the valve cover off and check the valves anyways...see how they look. I like to know these things for sure before i blow $1000.


Pulling the valve cover won't show you much. All you can really do is check the valve clearances, but a compression test would be a good thing to do also. I think you need a special took and shims to adjust the valves, so it's not a trivial job.


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## zakgord (Jun 11, 2007)

Yes, I understand what its trying to do. Trouble is, i cant figure out where the main coil feeding the distributor is located. It should be attached to the dist cap yes? Well, I have the four plug wires coming out of the dist cap plus 2 clip type wires out the side of the cap, one pointed towards the front of the car, the other towards the air manifold. 

It appears the one on the front end of the cap splits off from the main lead off the positive terminal....so i assumed that was the one to unclip (it uses a clip/plug type connection). I unplugged it but couldnt figure out how to ground it. Do i attach a small jump from the wire to the engine...or from the plug where it came out from and then to the engine....and is this even the right wire?

Too many questions/variables to figure out and not enough time when i attempted it earlier. Maybe a nice big clear color (haynes manual pics can be tricky figuring out) and some know how by someone who has done this before would be useful...hint*hint* 

As for the valves and removing the cover, its really more for curiosity's sake, see how she looks inside. Although I have noticed a spot or two along the gasket seam where there was some "blow-by", possible leak...nothing too major, but I'll replace the gasket anyways.

Thanks for replying.


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## zakgord (Jun 11, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the possible valve cover leak and of my distributor. Where is that dang main coil prof. haynes speaks of?

ImageShack® - zakgord's images


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## Altima SSS (Oct 10, 2007)

zakgord said:


> Yes, I understand what its trying to do. Trouble is, i cant figure out where the main coil feeding the distributor is located. It should be attached to the dist cap yes? Well, I have the four plug wires coming out of the dist cap plus 2 clip type wires out the side of the cap, one pointed towards the front of the car, the other towards the air manifold.


Humm ... your car is a 97 model, so it must be different than my 94 which has a short wire (like a spark plug wire) that goes from the coil to the distributor. That's what the Haynes manual is talking about ... to unplug that coil wire from the distributor and ground it so the spark plugs don't get spark.

Not sure what to do in your case. I've found that the Haynes manual seems to be much more accurate for the earlier models than the late models, since it is supposed to cover 93 to 04 models.

It does however say in the Haynes manual: "On other models, detach the electrical connectors from the ignition coils." That must be referring to the non 2.4L engines.

It also says: "On all models, disable the fuel pump circuit and relieve the fuel pressure (see Chapter 4)".

There has to be a coil somewhere on your engine ... unless it's built into the distributor somehow.

So you said if you disconnected the plug at the distributor the engine wouldn't even crank over? That seems strange, as the starter circuit is usually independant of the ignition system.


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## zakgord (Jun 11, 2007)

Well here is what my '93 - '04 altima hayne's manual says for order of steps compression testing(mine is '97 altima, 2.4L):

1. clean around the spark plugs
2. Remove spark plugs
3. block throttle wide open (not sure exactly, i just pressed the pedal in)
4. 2.4L: detach high-tension coil wire from the distributor cap and ground it to the engine block
other models: detach electrical connectors from the ignition coils
5. disable fuel pump circuit (all models)
6. install compression gauge
7. crank engine over

After reading that and researching online, here is the order that i did:

1. Relieve fuel pressure system (remove fuel pump fuse) I might have also disconnectd the grounding wire from the battery, (i try to do that when tampering with fuses) dont remember for sure, could have led to the incomplete testing?
2. removed one of the electrical connectors from the dist
3. remove spark plugs
4. insall gauge
5. tried to crank engine

Looking at my *clean* distributor in comparison with the rest of the motor and reading what haynes is saying about 2.4L distributor setup compared to other models, would it be possible i have an aftermarket/ rebuilt dist from another...maybe non 2.4L model. I have some pictures of it in my previous reply.


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## I'm3rd (Dec 24, 2003)

I don't know much about electronic ignition systems but couldn't you just pull the plug wires out of the distributor cap and check the compression without getting electricity to the plugs? I have run compression checks on American cars before without doing anything but taking out the spark plugs and leaving the plug wires off the plugs while I cranked the engine over.. But that was back when they still used the old make and break ignition system so it may not work on newer electronic ignition systems.


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## Altima SSS (Oct 10, 2007)

zakgord said:


> After reading that and researching online, here is the order that i did:
> 
> 1. Relieve fuel pressure system (remove fuel pump fuse) I might have also disconnectd the grounding wire from the battery, (i try to do that when tampering with fuses) dont remember for sure, could have led to the incomplete testing?
> 2. removed one of the electrical connectors from the dist
> ...


So in step 5 above, I take it the engine did not crank over? It's hard to believe that disconnecting the distributor signal wires disalbes the starter. 

Like I said, the Haynes manual doesn't always seem to be accurate. My '94 has 5 wires on the distributor cap ... 4 go to the spark plugs, and one goes to the coil's high output side. The Haynes manual is assuming there is a high tension wire from the coil to the distributor on 93 - 04 cars, but I don't think that's true.

I really don't think you could put a distributor from non-2.4L engine on the 2.4L engine. I think the distributor/coil setup was changed somewhere along the line on the 2.4L engines.


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## zakgord (Jun 11, 2007)

> So in step 5 above, I take it the engine did not crank over? It's hard to believe that disconnecting the distributor signal wires disalbes the starter.


Right, it did not crank over...does seem strange that that would disable the starter.

However, I tried this test before I replaced my alternator and cleaned my battery posts (was having starting problems, although the few times before and after i attempted this test, the car started fine when hooked up normally). Perhaps was just my faulty alternator/connection....Maybe now it would work, otherwise i will have to do more research to try and figure out how to check compression on my specific setup.

I have read where some people simply remove the spark plugs and plug the gauge in then cranking, omitting any electrical disassembly steps....then others would reply that this could burn-up/damage ignition or starting hardware.


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## Altima SSS (Oct 10, 2007)

I'm3rd said:


> I don't know much about electronic ignition systems but couldn't you just pull the plug wires out of the distributor cap and check the compression without getting electricity to the plugs? I have run compression checks on American cars before without doing anything but taking out the spark plugs and leaving the plug wires off the plugs while I cranked the engine over.. But that was back when they still used the old make and break ignition system so it may not work on newer electronic ignition systems.


That would be one way of doing it. I think they always suggest grounding the high tension lead from the coil just so there isn't a change of the high voltage arcing anywhere.


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