# Do any states have laws like this?



## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

New 'Anti Hoon' laws coming into affect here today.

http://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.a...fc3f426b39c7070b48256f0300063408?OpenDocument


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

never in the US! the govt. would be spending millions on trials and would eventually repeal the law.

besides, there is a law against reckless driving, its called "wreckless behavior with a motor vehicle" and is punishable by a hefty fine on the first offense. plus if you were driving recklessly you probably have a few other laws under your belt too, like speeding and disobeying traffic signals, and usually avoiding arrest too. (i have not heard of anyone getting hit with this law unless they were running from the cops, when they mean wreckless driving, they mean driving through front lawns and what not lol)


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

^its not driving through lawns n stuff, just reckless driving like speeding over 90mph i think is pretty much reckless. swerving all over the road and stuff to the like.


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## BII (May 13, 2004)

I think I remember reading a while ago that the land of OZ was passing this law to specifically combat drifting.

The irony is that they have all that open desert to run around in. Oh and this IS the country that gave us Mad Max.


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## Hendrix (Jan 17, 2004)

wreckless driving in the state of SC is a 6 point ticket which is half of the points on your driver's liscence. I'm not sure of the fine attached to the ticket but with 6 points gone your insurance is gonna be much higher.


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## Nico Flax (May 3, 2003)

I've already gotten two reckless driving tickets, license taken away too... 
-sigh-

Anyway here in VA, Reckless driving is going 20 miles over the posted speed limit, a lot of the roads just need to be revauled though seriously, and putting a damn stop light at every intersection is not going to help the problem. There really is no quick fix to the problems in this country, what it is, is that nobody in America knows how to drive, or at least the general population. Its so easy to get a license in this country its sad. Government officals are trying to get all these laws passed, and all this new technology in cars so the more control will be taken away from the driver, man this is bullshit. Eventually we'll basically be riding in our own cab. Course that doesn't justify my reckless driving tickets....

Anyway I gotta go make a call to the court house for my new ticket
"Illegal Sign on the Front Windshield"
Its so unfair, honestly it isn't obstructing my view! Hell if the b14 came with that black strip on the top of the windshield to block the sun, IT WOULD BE THE SAME FREAKING THING... dumb state trooper... -sigh-


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

yeah, i am so scared to think how easy it is to get a liscense, all you have to do is be able to acelerate, break, and do a 3 point turn...and poof you have a license. 

more traffic laws isnt the anser, the answer is more stringent licesing requirments.(well then half the people on the road would suddnely not have a license).

and i think all the new tech thats going into cars is bull and only makes driving more dangerous. as people's control is taken away, they're attention is required less and less. less attention means more accidents. its quite simple really.

the worst hit to 'paying attention to the road' was the automatic. with an auto you dont have to pay attention at all to start moving, you just move. and then it frees up your hands to do other things while driving, like makeup and eating and cell phones...and tell me how is THAT safe.

things i hate about modern cars:

1. Automatic transmissions 
2. traction control
3. mushy suspension(oh but its so comfy!)
4. mushy brakes(dont want a jerky ride now)
5. understeer
6. reverse collision sensors or cameras(no need to actually look at what we're doing now is there?)
7. power windows
8. 3 tons of plastic trim
9. they're all really really BIG
10. too much is controlled with computers.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

Joel said:


> New 'Anti Hoon' laws coming into affect here today.
> 
> http://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.a...fc3f426b39c7070b48256f0300063408?OpenDocument


Good... if you want to race or drift then take it to the track. The import car hobby/industry has been given enough black eyes by idiotic people.


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## BII (May 13, 2004)

I love how on one side its OK to condemn street racing/drifting, but on the other side games like NFS Underground are emmensly popular. I mean come on, if the automotive and aftermarket industry were so against "illegal" racing, then why license thier name and products to street racing games and movies?

While accidents from street racing are more spectatcular, how many more are caused by "Suzie Soccer Mom" yelling at the kids in the back, talking on the cell phone, holding her cup of Starbucks soy latte, loading the "Lion King" on the in board DVD, oh and yeah, driving.

Gale Banks once said the second car was built to beat the first. I think simply saying "go take it to a track" is a naive attitude. I don't condone wheel to wheel racing on the streets, but one should be allowed to drive to the level of the vehicle on highways. But there should also be stringent licensing laws and tougher distraction laws. Speed limits are absurd. If anything we should have momentum laws, the true killer in collisions. More over, should the speed limit be the same for all cars and all drivers at all times? I think not.


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## BakaSama (Jul 24, 2004)

Tavel said:


> the worst hit to 'paying attention to the road' was the automatic. with an auto you dont have to pay attention at all to start moving, you just move. and then it frees up your hands to do other things while driving, like makeup and eating and cell phones...and tell me how is THAT safe.


I don't know about that... I can eat a burger, shift, and drive properly at the same time. Kinda kills MPG having to run the revs a little high going around corners. 

Hell, once I did that with something in my right hand, and shifting with my left! That was interesting... Heh. (really, only did that one time)


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## Will (Jan 2, 2004)

I agree with b11. I passed this guy the other day on the express way at 70 mph. He's on the cell phone,not a'hands free' device. He's eating some thing and reading a paper. I assume the car was on cruise and maybe his brain after 2 martinis. I sped up to get away aways from him. Is that steet racing? BakaSama I sure hope your not serious.


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## Will (Jan 2, 2004)

If your not serious that's pretty funny stuff.


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## Hendrix (Jan 17, 2004)

bII said:


> I love how on one side its OK to condemn street racing/drifting, but on the other side games like NFS Underground are emmensly popular. I mean come on, if the automotive and aftermarket industry were so against "illegal" racing, then why license thier name and products to street racing games and movies?
> 
> While accidents from street racing are more spectatcular, how many more are caused by "Suzie Soccer Mom" yelling at the kids in the back, talking on the cell phone, holding her cup of Starbucks soy latte, loading the "Lion King" on the in board DVD, oh and yeah, driving.
> 
> Gale Banks once said the second car was built to beat the first. I think simply saying "go take it to a track" is a naive attitude. I don't condone wheel to wheel racing on the streets, but one should be allowed to drive to the level of the vehicle on highways. But there should also be stringent licensing laws and tougher distraction laws. Speed limits are absurd. If anything we should have momentum laws, the true killer in collisions. More over, should the speed limit be the same for all cars and all drivers at all times? I think not.


1)The racing games have warnings not to attempt that driving style on the roads.2) Distractions are a huge cause of accidents.3) Driving to the level of the vehicle on the highway won't help anything. Try making someone believe that their sport tuned Focus can't handle the speed that a BMW 5 series can. 4)The speed limits posted are not for the cars they are for the roads. That is the speed at which a vehicle can safetly be operated at on that road without endangering the lives of others.


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## BakaSama (Jul 24, 2004)

No, I'm serious... I don't do it a whole lot though and I usually finish whatever I'm eating fast.

Edit:
Oh, and it's a rather useful skill as I've once had a rather serious cut on my hand and had to drive myself to the ER (bleeding wasn't bad, thank god).


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## BII (May 13, 2004)

slow_sentra322 said:


> 1)The racing games have warnings not to attempt that driving style on the roads.2) Distractions are a huge cause of accidents.3) Driving to the level of the vehicle on the highway won't help anything. Try making someone believe that their sport tuned Focus can't handle the speed that a BMW 5 series can. 4)The speed limits posted are not for the cars they are for the roads. That is the speed at which a vehicle can safetly be operated at on that road without endangering the lives of others.


1.) The disclaimers are not meant to prevent you from street racing, they are meant to cover thier asses when you do street race and want to blame somebody (the video game made me do it defense). Secondly, a trite little warning gets lost in the viseral pleasure of the game/video/whatever. Thirdly, why are these game so popular? Driving fast is for some reason wiried in our brain as enjoyable.

2.) Yes, that is were the focus should be, on bad drivers that are also distracted, not on drivers that can drive faster than 55 MPH on an empty highway.

3.) Whos to say a properly tuned Focus can't handle the speed of a BMW 5 series. Moreover, I have advocated momentum laws as opposed to speed laws, a BMW 5 series is a heavy car that will do more damage than a Focus at a given speed. Moreover, rather than have "zero tolorance" on speed limits (funny how you never see posted "speed thresholds") why not have different plates for people based on your ability to drive and the capabilities of the vehicles? We have special plates for other kinds of distinctions, why not these?

4.) The car and the driver have more to do with how safe a road is, not some arbitrary speed limit that is the same at all times of the day, at all traffic levels. Do you know how speed limits are set? A common way is for enginneers to take the speed people are driving (some people may have seen black rubber strips on the road, those are one method) and take the statistical mean. Sometimes a town is run by Keystone Kops and the speed limit is set with municipal coffers in mind. Ask yourself this, does the government always get right? If not, they why think the speed limits they set are inherently correct?

Something else I forgot, cars have taken leaps and bounds in safety, drivers have become smarter, but speed limits have stayed the same for decades. If the device and the operator have improved, then why not allow them to increase speed? I don't need a mommy or daddy telling me I should slow down just to be sure.


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

agreed...with some of that. 

i think a momentum law would be exceedingly confusing(but vehicle mass limiations are a good thing methinks, also lowers emissions). i also think that the highway speeds need to be re-evaluated.(surface street speeds USUALLY make sense). i heard thatthey were set highway speeds limits with fuel efficiancy in mind. 55 WAS the most fuel efficiant speed for most cars. but that is outdated now, as the most efficiant speed for my sentra is 65mph, not 55mph. i dont like being 'forced' to go slower and use more gasoline(creating more atmospheric emmisions) because law makers are to dull to keep up with vehicle technology. i think a good speed limit would be 65 or 70 these days...although some of the poorly maintaned POS's i see around scare the crap out of me on the highway, bouncy bouncy bouncy(as the wheels actually bounce off the road)


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

I was more amused at the fact that the word "hoon" is now in our state law but not in any dictionaries.
The main concern of this law is that Police will use it to target citizens with modified or 'race look' cars. It claimed its first victim yesterday - a lowrider style Toyota Hilux minitruck that did a burnout (in the wet) around a corner.


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

so you mean if i go there, and accidently spin my wheels at a stop sighn i'll get a ticket for wreckless driving???

thats stupid.


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## Hendrix (Jan 17, 2004)

You can be ticketed in SC for spinning your wheels even if the road is wet (careless driving, 2 points and about $40)

Momentum laws would be stupid. Yes a BWM 5 series can do more damage than a Focus (the Focus I was referring to is the stock sports series the dealer sells). A semi truck can do lots more damage also, so are truckers supposed to drive 25mph all day? Still driving to the capibility of the car is not a good thing. Someone on the highway with a Lambo going all out would be just too dangerous. (Even with an "empty highway" you'd be amazed how fast objects approach at 100+mph) Even a special driver's license doesn't make much sense. How much testing and tax payers dollars is that gonna cost? Yes, cars have gotten safer and easier to drive, but now there are more on the road that ever. Just think the next time some driver doing 55mph is heading toward you on a two lane highway "what would happen if the driver's side front tire blew just as that car is 10 feet away?"


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## Will (Jan 2, 2004)

"Cars are safer and easier to drive". "When you make something fool proof someone comes up with a better fool".


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

slow_sentra322 said:


> You can be ticketed in SC for spinning your wheels even if the road is wet (careless driving, 2 points and about $40)


seems like those laws are very auto tranny w/ RWD biased. the only way i can be sure i keep my wheels suck in the rain is by starting in second. but then i'd probably get a ticket for reving my engine high.

illinois laws aren't that goofy. 

it is illegal for a car to operate a sound system that can be heard more than 75 feet from the vehicle(keep the windows closed and crank it)

reckless driving is exceeding 40mph above the posted limit.(big ticket)

reckless endangerment is exceeding 40mph above the posted limit and endangering someone elses saftey.(prison time)

and vehicles must have front and rear plates

my towns laws are anti-ricer(though they dont call it that) 

minimal ground clearance of 3 inches. 

having things hanging from the rear view mirror while driving is illegal

having any extra lights beyond what came stock is illegal(no 'snake eyes' washer nozzles, no ground lights, no interior lights)


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## BII (May 13, 2004)

A momentum law would be easier than you think. If you have graduated mass scales, you would know where your vehicle fit and would know what your limit is. We already test people in most DMV's, we already make different versions for various languages and so people take different versions, for motorcycles, etc., is it a leap to ask the DMV to make a "performance" drivers test? Perhaps you get that license when you take a performance driving course, making the licensee bear the brunt of the expense (much like California does for motorcyclists under 21 and teenage drivers).

BTW, I'll let Newton know you think momentum laws are stupid. If safety were soooo important, why not spare no expense to make sure we're safe. Speed DOES NOT kill, momentum does, don't believe me, take a physics course or two.


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

I stand corrected. The minitruck was the second offender. First impound made under the 'hoon' law was a 17yo probationary driver caught doing 40kph over the limit with a blood alcohol level of 0.08% (legal limit for a p plater is zero, normal leval limit 0.05%)
He deserved more than a car impound!

And on the momentum law - easy to calculate, harder to enforce. There is talk of a 'power' law though, certian age drivers cant have a car more powerful (capacity) than a certain limit. We do it already with motorbikes - young riders cant have a bike over 250cc.


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## Hendrix (Jan 17, 2004)

bII said:


> BTW, I'll let Newton know you think momentum laws are stupid. If safety were soooo important, why not spare no expense to make sure we're safe. Speed DOES NOT kill, momentum does, don't believe me, take a physics course or two.


Newton's laws of physics not stupid, trying to apply momentum laws to roadways are stupid. Once again, what are truckers supposed to do with momentum laws in place. Also if you read I did say that the BWM (the heavier car) would be able to do more damage than the Focus (the lighter car). If momentum laws were in effect then that would kill the idea of driving to the capibility of the vehicle. (Yup took physics and momentum is a direct relation to an oblject's mass and speed)


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

yep pretty much, we love to talk about 'what they SHOULD do' but fail to think about HOW to do it. take an econ class, it helps with the reasoing skills. 

for a motorbike to have the same momentum as a truck, it'd either have to be going extremly fast, or the truck would have to be going extremly slow...either way the law is inexecutable. the only feasable thing to do is re-evaluate speed limits based on automotive technological advances. and do it based on the AVERAGE ability of cars, not every single cars ability.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

bII said:


> BTW, I'll let Newton know you think momentum laws are stupid. If safety were soooo important, why not spare no expense to make sure we're safe. Speed DOES NOT kill, momentum does, don't believe me, take a physics course or two.


That's like saying a bullet won't kill you... but the hole it makes in you can. 

parachute doesn't open.. wasn't the parchutes fault.. the ground killed you.

Doesn't really matter either way... you're still dead.

we've all heard it before...

Actually your analogy is incorrect.. Momentum doesn't kill you... Its the sudden deceleration of your momentum into a stable source or force heading in the opposite direction...


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

myoung said:


> Actually your analogy is incorrect.. Momentum doesn't kill you... Its the sudden deceleration of your momentum into a stable source or force heading in the opposite direction...


BINGO! momentum doesn't kill. if it did then we should all be dead because of the earths momentum. ACCELERATION kills(or deceleration in a car accident). 

like when you hit a bug, its not the momentum of your car that squished the bug, its the extreme deceleration the bug experiences. imagine acceleration so that your body just squishes. thats an ouchy.

then you can get even pickier and say that the bug wouldn't have decelerated so much if the car wasn't so big. but then you get this thing called IMPULSE, for those of you who like to tell people to take physics class... this is a mix of momentum, time, and acceleration. 

SPEED DOESN'T KILL PEOPLE, IMPULS KILLS PEOPLE.


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## BII (May 13, 2004)

1.) I wasn't telling people to take a physics class, just reminding them that in the physics class they took at some point you remember the example of why a bullet can kill you, etc.

2.) The acceleration of the bullet is not killing you, as the bullet (or car, or whatever) can be going at a constant speed and have enough momentum to cause damage.

3.) Let me clarify, I'm advocating a more sensible approach to safety, taking into account driver/vehicle ability and momentum. The main reason I advocate momentum is because acceleration (or rather deceleration) at impact is going to be constant at a given speed so the variable in F=MA would be the mass of the vehicle, hence momentum is important. In the past, speed limits made (more) sense the range of vehicle masses was far more narrow than it is today.

Lastly, if anyone is offened by me or my comments, I'm sorry it was not my intent. I guess tone is difficult to transmit over script.


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## B11sleeper (Oct 15, 2003)

Tavel said:


> so you mean if i go there, and accidently spin my wheels at a stop sighn i'll get a ticket for wreckless driving???
> 
> thats stupid.


I suppose if the cop wants to be an ass he can. I usually make sure to mot chirp my tires or make loud starts when the cops are around. Having a car that's 3 colors of primer makes my car a target of harassment anyways.

on momentum laws... I'd think it was great that if you wanted more than 1.5 litres ( adjusted for turbo /etc.. ) or a SUV / truck whatever then you should have to take training and be tested on your ability to handle that vehicle.

Automobile licensing is a sad thing because the states really care more about getting the licensing fees that making sure the person is capable of driving safely.

What if pilots licenses were so easy to get...


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

bII said:


> Lastly, if anyone is offened by me or my comments, I'm sorry it was not my intent. I guess tone is difficult to transmit over script.


yeah it is, people always take what i say the wrong way too. sorry man.


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