# A visual demonstration of what happens when you put cheap springs on your car



## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

A lot of people here don't seem to have a clear idea of what can happen when you install cheap lowering springs on their cars. Well, here's a video to show you precisely why you don't want to do things like slap Eibach sportlines (soft lowering springs that lower your car significantly) on KYB GR2's (cheap dampers designed for use with factory springs).

Auto-X: Poorly set up Prelude


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> A lot of people here don't seem to have a clear idea of what can happen when you install cheap lowering springs on their cars. Well, here's a video to show you precisely why you don't want to do things like slap Eibach sportlines (soft lowering springs that lower your car significantly) on KYB GR2's (cheap dampers designed for use with factory springs).
> 
> Auto-X: Poorly set up Prelude


That looked painful!

I've never been to an AutoX event, but that just did not look good at all.

Regards,
Michael


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

wow sucks for him :loser: his backs were rubbing right? thats the only thing i could see


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## LIUSPEED (May 29, 2002)

ouch that looks painful


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## ASsman (Mar 23, 2005)

SanMarcosZfreak said:


> wow sucks for him :loser: his backs were rubbing right? thats the only thing i could see


Front and back....

IMO he should have saved his cash from that lame ass paintjob, and fruity aircraft wing.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

ASsman said:


> Front and back....
> 
> IMO he should have saved his cash from that lame ass paintjob, and fruity aircraft wing.


yeah after a second view i saw the fronts


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

wow, big wing, terible kit, bad suspension......best part of that video was the r32 at the end


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

That is the most horrible, god aweful, piece of crap, excuse for an autocross I have ever seen..... 

Prelude sucked too.


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## d_baldguy_24 (Jul 12, 2002)

*even the wife...*

... and she's not a big car fan, asked me, "he has to be able to hear that right?"

he has to know that he's rubbing like that. looks to me like he would drag ass just backing out of a parking space, or rounding a corner in traffic @ 5 mph. that was way sad.


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## wildmanee (Nov 21, 2004)

LMAO that one turn at the end of the first stretch... look at his rear left tire.. hahahaha :thumbup: 


It happens multiple times, but that time was just so blatant lol


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

so those are really eibachs? they look like cut springs. idk, if thats eibach, on a honda no less!, then sentra deff. need to stay away! if a honda cant handle the eibachs nissans have no change.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

1.6pete said:


> so those are really eibachs? they look like cut springs. idk, if thats eibach, on a honda no less!, then sentra deff. need to stay away! if a honda cant handle the eibachs nissans have no change.


The springs on the car itself aren't Eibachs. I just used Eibach Sportlines and GR2's as an example of what's available for our cars which would cause similar things to happen on a Sentra.

EDIT: ...Or maybe I'm wrong. I just came across a Japanese Autocross Club's message board, on which one of the members claims that he spoke to the owner of that car and that those are Eibach Sportlines on stock dampers.


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## ks0385 (Mar 27, 2005)

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT, theres more tire on his wheel wells than on the road,


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## Omega3k1 (Jan 6, 2005)

my god... i think i could do better in my stock sentra than he is... i like how his kit drags the ground about 8 times 

That car is the epitome of RICE.


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> EDIT: ...Or maybe I'm wrong. I just came across a Japanese Autocross Club's message board, on which one of the members claims that he spoke to the owner of that car and that those are Eibach Sportlines on stock dampers.


i see, i can understand they are to soft, but i bet the stock dampers has alot to do with that. ever since i have been studying suspension i have noticed nearly ever single lowerd car around here is useing stock dampers. even my b13 with nearly blown shocks dosent bounce as much as these cars.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

Omega3k1 said:


> my god... i think i could do better in my stock sentra than he is... i like how his kit drags the ground about 8 times
> 
> That car is the epitome of RICE.





1.6pete said:


> i see, i can understand they are to soft, but i bet the stock dampers has alot to do with that. ever since i have been studying suspension i have noticed nearly ever single lowerd car around here is useing stock dampers. even my b13 with nearly blown shocks dosent bounce as much as these cars.


For those of you who are considering upgrading your suspension systems, take careful note of what Omega3k1 and 1.6pete are saying here. They are both very good points.


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## d_baldguy_24 (Jul 12, 2002)

it's like a train wreck. no matter how badly you want to, you can't look away.

all of the newbies should be guaranteed an opportunity to see this. there's a lot to be learned simply by watching it. when i first started, as did most of us, i though just having the nissin lower was good enough, so i bought sportlines, and even cut 1.5 coils off the front and 2 for the rear, and slapped them on the stock struts. i was "pimp" until i had to shell out like $800 to rebuild the bottom side of my car, including replacing my suspension.


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## Omega3k1 (Jan 6, 2005)

lol ouch...

I know i've learned a lot since i got my car. I was going to put some Tien S Tech's w/ GR2's on mine... but umm no definatly going to save up for the Tien Basics now if i do do anything major to the suspension, Which i dont think i'm going to do cause this car handles so well already and its great for daily driving. The only upgrade i know i'll do when my stockers go bad is upgrade to some GR2's.


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## I'm tired of my usernamee (Feb 16, 2004)

Omega3K1 said:


> The only upgrade i know i'll do when my stockers go bad is upgrade to some GR2's


 GR2's are not an upgrade, Konis and AGX's are upgrades. GR2's are a OEM replacement.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

Stuck!

thanks for the good post Reverm


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

91sentra said:


> GR2's are not an upgrade, Konis and AGX's are upgrades. GR2's are a OEM replacement.


i have heard they are like 2 clicks stiffer on AGX's. still not good for lowering springs, but with stock springs they should be quite nice.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

Perfect example of what many have spoke about and many don't understand... Nice find ReVerm!!!

Now imagine that car trying a high speed maneuver... now that's a scary thought.

A cheap suspension setup is worse than stock..


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

1.6pete said:


> i have heard they are like 2 clicks stiffer on AGX's. still not good for lowering springs, but with stock springs they should be quite nice.


no.. GR2's are direct OEM replacements.. Not an upgrade...


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

myoung said:


> no.. GR2's are direct OEM replacements.. Not an upgrade...


hmm, ok. i just read that some were (i forget exactly where)


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## DraftEm98 (Jun 29, 2004)

I absolutely loved seeing those rear tires coming off the ground! Now I dont feel as much like a jealous asshole everytime I see a ricer sportin whatever APC just came out with! Great find!


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## Eganrac (Dec 5, 2004)

Ohh My God.... What kind of idiot sets up his car like that? He must be really dense and thinks that when the bottom of his car is slamming against the ground that he's actually got great suspension and that it's extra stiff. And another thing... He's obviously got CHEAP tires, he can't be doing much more than 30mph tops, because I doubt he ever hit second gear that whole time and to be able to get your car to slide THAT easily, he's either riding around on bald tires or some no name tires straight from Ebay that he spent all of $200 for the set of four, with rims included. I can't get my car to slide like that on Dunlop FM901's at anything less than 35mph, hand-breakin it all the way.

A) Thanks for the awesome video, great lesson learned 
B) Thank you to all of the experienced people here at Nissan Forums for the great advice. And I pick up my Tien Basics tomorrow morning, they arrived at the post office yesterday.

Chicken-$*** stir fried ricer anyone?


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Someone want to explain step by step the issues we are watching?

Seth


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

sethwas said:


> Someone want to explain step by step the issues we are watching?
> 
> Seth


The main things I noticed here were:

1. Springs are too soft and lower the car too much so any sort of load transfer causes the chassis to scrape against the ground.

2. Dampers are too weak, so the car takes one too many moments to settle after any sort of load transfer (the car bobs and sways after acceleration/braking/cornering).

3. The front springs are too soft and allow the inside rear wheel to come off the ground during even mild cornering.

4. Rear springs are too soft, so front wheels spin whenever the driver opens up the throttle.

5. At about 1:16 into the video, the car "hops" as it attempts a counter-clockwise 360 around a cone. There is actually no bump/dip in the pavement there (I checked footage from other autocrosses held on the same lot). That is the passenger side front suspension bottoming out. This hop is more pronounced than the other times because the car is literally bouncing off of one of its bump stops. Thankfully, he wasn't going fast enough or he probably would have slid into the curb.

The other big thing is that the car seems to have taken its run in a parking lot in Understeer City rather than in Tokyo, Japan, but I think that might be the driver more than anything else.


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## d_baldguy_24 (Jul 12, 2002)

even a mild attemp at setting the car up before the turns would have helped a lot. it can't negate the shoddy suspension that he's got running under the thing, but giving it at least a slight chance to adjust is key. the thing has no chance of coping with all of the weight being transferred (slammed) to the corner that fast. i mean, watch it close, he comes in tight to almost every cone, which we all know kills your entry and exit.


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## McLaren F1 2003 (Jan 2, 2003)

i understand whats going on here...but im going to show this vid to my friends to explain to them why not to go cheap on suspension (they dogged me forever for paying what i did for my tein ss's)...anyway, ill show them this vid and all they will say is "i wont ever autocross or race for that matter...why should i care what this car is doing"

what should i say to them then?


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

... tell them that they can encounter similar turning, accelerating and braking situations in normal everyday driving - Autocross is not that fast. To crap out a poorly thought and executed suspension is not going to take much effort.

Then when they come cryin' ta Momma after they shred their setup... *grin*


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

McLaren F1 2003 said:


> i understand whats going on here...but im going to show this vid to my friends to explain to them why not to go cheap on suspension (they dogged me forever for paying what i did for my tein ss's)...anyway, ill show them this vid and all they will say is "i wont ever autocross or race for that matter...why should i care what this car is doing"
> 
> what should i say to them then?


And if MShorten's point doesn't completely convince them, remind them that emergency maneuvers will exert forces similar to those that a vehicle experiences during an autocross. Just imagine the Prelude in that video trying to make a sudden stop to avoid hitting a small child or attempting to dodge a car that has veered out of the oncoming lane.

...Scary, isn't it?


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## anush_avan (Feb 16, 2005)

the lesson is lost on me.

so to lower the car and avoid this...

you get kyb agx and eibach lowering springs?

or do you get kyb gr2 with stock springs?

or do you get stock struts and lowering springs?

or what?

how should you lower the car properly?

what parts would you get?

come on, don't just offer criticism, how about some sound advice and clear explanation.


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

anush_avan said:


> the lesson is lost on me.
> 
> so to lower the car and avoid this...
> 
> ...


read the other stickies in this area. there is so much "sound advise" youwil be up to your ears in it. unless you use coil overs or shortend struts/shocks you can not lower the car lower than 1.5 inches.


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## I'm tired of my usernamee (Feb 16, 2004)

i was just looking at it closer and did anyone notice that its RHD???


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

91sentra said:


> i was just looking at it closer and did anyone notice that its RHD???


Yep. This video was taken at an autocross at Yokota air force base, which is located in the vicinity of Tokyo, Japan.


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## IDreamofDET (Apr 15, 2005)

That was in Japan? What a ashame! Did anybody catch that R32 towards the end? So is Rice still rice in Japan? :fluffy:


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## d_baldguy_24 (Jul 12, 2002)

i'm pretty sure that rice is rice. no matter where you are. just pretty sad that, in the country where tuning is so influential and widespread (what with all of the exotic breeds that we'd kill for (i.e. the R32)), that guy's buddies would let him roll something like that.


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## landlord (Jun 11, 2002)

wow, the stock setup in my 200 is way better then that!


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## skets (Jun 17, 2004)

jeeeesas christ that car sux

even my megans handled better than that


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## live4snow (Jan 5, 2005)

Omega3k1 said:


> That car is the epitome of RICE.


And thats why I dont like body kits. They are useless.


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

wow, i just witnessed this exact thing today. wen to my local auto-x and there was a prelude with a massive wing and a big ol' body kit,..........lets just say the corners were not his friend at all and that every dip/hard corner decided his body kit was over rated.

i suppose his car wasnt as bad as the one in the pics but when your at an auto-x and watch 2 elises run then a caterham then this tool stages up you get a biased veiw on his run :thumbup:


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## Alti9 (Apr 13, 2005)

your link goes to some japenese web page. No video?


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

Alti9 said:


> your link goes to some japenese web page. No video?


Chimmike has updated the link at my request. It should work until my Alma Mater decides to delete my acct.


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## alcnchns (Oct 31, 2005)

that was terrible. that looked like a very boring AutoX....


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## ks2 tuning (Sep 27, 2005)

couple things i noticed in that video are...

1) that's its wet and the driver is trying to rotate the car by using his parking brake...

2) the rear of the car is much stiffer than the front, that's why it bouncing all over, the driver probably has the car set up for drifting more than autocross...

i wonder how many air dams got torn off hitting curbs that day? that course is more of a parking exercise than a speed trial


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

ks2 tuning said:


> 2) the rear of the car is much stiffer than the front, that's why it bouncing all over, the driver probably has the car set up for drifting more than autocross...


set up for drifting? you realize its a FWD car right? that suspension isnt "set up" for anything. it was tossed together half assed.


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## ks2 tuning (Sep 27, 2005)

pete? said:


> set up for drifting? you realize its a FWD car right? that suspension isnt "set up" for anything. it was tossed together half assed.


ahh yes notice the three dots trailing off after the statment about drifting? that means a statement meant to convey someone's Joking or pausing to let a joke sink in.


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## wildmanee (Nov 21, 2004)

ks2 tuning said:


> ahh yes notice the three dots trailing off after the statment about drifting? that means a statement meant to convey someone's Joking or pausing to let a joke sink in.


not for the majority of people...


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

ks2 tuning said:


> ahh yes notice the three dots trailing off after the statment about drifting? that means a statement meant to convey someone's Joking or pausing to let a joke sink in.


well..... 

i use periods as a means of conveying a pause


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## ks2 tuning (Sep 27, 2005)

pete? said:


> well.....
> 
> i use periods as a means of conveying a pause


Well your from MD. with the inclimate weather back there you have time to use periods. In Los Angeles today it was 73 degrees, so we could have time to finish the damper testing on the Celica at Willow Springs I had to use dots... LOL


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## BORNGEARHEAD (Apr 30, 2002)

That was the most pathetic attempt for an autocross course I have ever seen. Where's their local mall? lol.


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## twigglius (Dec 21, 2005)

ReVerm said:


> A lot of people here don't seem to have a clear idea of what can happen when you install cheap lowering springs on their cars. Well, here's a video to show you precisely why you don't want to do things like slap Eibach sportlines (soft lowering springs that lower your car significantly) on KYB GR2's (cheap dampers designed for use with factory springs).
> 
> Auto-X: Poorly set up Prelude



Other than the fact that the spoiler on that car made it look like a shopping cart I think that car had cut stock spring on it.


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## Ouland_Drifter (Nov 1, 2005)

first of all that video of that car was a joke. second if the car had a halfway descent driver and correct suspension setup the car probably would have been able to clear the course properly. third of all that type of race is not considered an autocross it is considered gymkhana. which requires a combination of grip and drift to clear in reasonable amounts of time. during autocross you dont have as sharp of turns and you are not doing figure 8's last time i checked.


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## B13boy (Dec 16, 2004)

I think they need a bigger parking lot! Donuts in a course?


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## Widget (Jan 4, 2006)

*What should I say to them?*

This is about how the car handles. How would
they like to be on the back of a a turnip truck
and it hit a bump and they fell off with a car 
with their setup. SPLAT! If you ruin you cars
by making it handle worse - you can't avoid
accidents. This thread it the ultimate in 
upgrading your suspension to the ultimate
in performance. By the way it ruins the 
stock ride 

Bill


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

Widget said:


> By the way it ruins the
> stock ride
> 
> Bill


not alot if done right. i had blown shocks on my se-r, so when i got my k-sports with 400lb springs the only thing it did was make it less bouncy lol.....so technicly the ride became better :waving: 

as for your ramblings of turnip trucks.......i understood absolutly nothing you said lol


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## Gapp (Apr 20, 2006)

LOL!! That car is an F-ing rice pile. Eventually, he'll grind the kit down enough for some body lean.


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## Ouland_Drifter (Nov 1, 2005)

*Not AutoX*

Aparently nobody in this forum has ever heard of Gymkhana. this website has some good videos of how courses like this should be went through. http://c-racing.web.infoseek.co.jp/index2.html


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## DOHC_Holiday (Aug 24, 2006)

Did anyone notice that the car waiting to race behind that catastrophuck of a Prelude was a Skyline? It is clearly visible at 00:13 and 1:39 in the video. It makes me doubt if that was a real autocross event if a super-stoopid Honda and a Skyline were competing in the same class.


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## huskya83 (Apr 20, 2004)

Its not the point if it was really an AutoX event or not. The point is the result of crappy springs or suspension.

keep to the topic at hand, and stop with the pointless issues on where it was done at, the rice on the car etc. 

~Thank you


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## seven_b13 (Oct 9, 2006)

damn.. alot of bouncing on that thing.. smh.. thats good to see b/c i'm doing my suspension next on my car..


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## Unreal~Designs (Apr 9, 2006)

lmao... first off, that thing is rictastic! I bet those flames gave him another 3246465 whp! It's sad that we all had to watch that because he could have done about a billion times better with a completely stock suspension. Hell, I could do better with my shot stock suspension, GA16 and automatic tranny


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