# GC Coilover question



## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

Ok 1st off i gotta b14, 98 200sx se to be exact. I live in Pennsylvania, and i just resently put on Ground Control coilovers with my stock struts on before i took it down to inspection place and the guy said they wont pass my car becuz the spring should be loose like that. Like if you jack the suspension on my car up, you can jiggle the springs around. I dunno how i would keep them for moving? I mean i thought i read the directions right and everything. Can someone direct me to a solution for this problem? Also the CEL is on becuz something the vacum system or something. Thinks it might be becuz my air box is removed (for a cone filter) but the CEL just resently came on. When i drive it hard sometimes it comes on then a couple days later it will go off. A solution to this would help also. Can someone help me plz, i got 1 more day before i cant drive it anymore cuz i need the inspection.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

Can Someone Gimme The Instructions On Installin Ground Control Coilovers On A B14 That Come In The Package With The Coilovers. I Lost Mine And The Guy Said They Will Try And Fix It If I Bring Down The Instructions.


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## danifilth (May 14, 2003)

check ground controls website and while you are online go to p-s-t.com and order some AGXs I can hear your struts crying from here.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

i already checked, they dont have instructions at all, or anywhere i could find. I got the ones from performace mag and such, but i need the ones that come in the GC box.


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## danifilth (May 14, 2003)

NPM instructions didnt help you?Print them out and see if your guy can use them.If not then I wouldnt trust him with my car.Honestly I think you should be able to read their instructions and know what to do.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

well they are installin on AGX's not OEM, plus i mean i installed them, but the spring is lose and he said, PA state law says springs gotta be tight you know, like not jiggle aroudn when the shock isnt compressed, and i dont understand how to do that cuz the spring isnt big enough to reach from top to bottom of strut when it isnt compressed


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## danifilth (May 14, 2003)

oh man to make this quick just swap back your old stockers and drive away legal.Get home and do all over again till next year.


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

raise the collars of your gcs on agx it will come under compresion eventually


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## 9double8 (Jul 9, 2002)

scrappy said:


> raise the collars of your gcs on agx it will come under compresion eventually


^^^^
What he said. If you raise the collar all the way to the top the spring 
should not move. Try that out.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

n then just drop it after inspection? I was thinkin that. but they have the car right now. Um the guy said, being the spring lose if i hit a bump and the strut uncompressed (i'm assuming this is what he talking about) the spring and get caught or somehow bent wrong and shoot underneath the car or something. I didnt really understand what he was saying, but if the spring is lose, is that dangerous?


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## nissannx (Feb 29, 2004)

What's the inspection for? Can you go to another inspection station? Does PA law not allow performance parts? Does the mechanic where you went understand performance parts. Coilovers are loose when you have the car lifted up off of it's wheels. If you can, ask a local performance shop who they'd recommend you go to for inspections. If there's nobody else, then ask this place to phone their parts supplier and get them to fill them in on the way coilovers work. Hope you get this worked out.
Good luck.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

I know the car cant be under a certain height, but i dont think mine is to low, and the guys tryin to tell me it isnt safe for the spring to be all loose like that, i dunno they are takin a look at the nissan performance article on installin those coilovers and seeing whats up. If they cant figure it out i'll just take it somewhere else for inspection that might know a little more about performance. Anyone else know about the PA inspection laws?


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## 9double8 (Jul 9, 2002)

The springs should be compressed when all 4 wheels on the ground. And they will uncompress (depending on the ride height) when lifted. To the best of my knowledge and I have coilovers.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

exactly, i dunno what this guy is talkin about then? Anyone know where i can get a write up or something on how they work to show this guy he's an idoit and that he has no idea wat he's talkin about.......tryin to tell me they should be compressed when the car is lifted.....i knew i was right.....


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

don't listen to that guy, he has no clue what he is talking about.. they are supposed to be like that


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

speedricer said:


> exactly, i dunno what this guy is talkin about then? Anyone know where i can get a write up or something on how they work to show this guy he's an idoit and that he has no idea wat he's talkin about.......tryin to tell me they should be compressed when the car is lifted.....i knew i was right.....


What he's trying to tell you is that the free length of the spring isn't long enough, so the spring will become unseated under full droop. The spring shouldn't necessarily be compressed under full droop, but they shouldn't move or rattle. What length spring did you get with your GC's?


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

um i forget, i'll get you the spring rate when i get home, but i know when lifted the springs dont touch. He was talkin about it being has to be seated and stuff. I mean so is he wrong? It's not unsafe for the spring to giggle and be able to move when the car is jacked up right? I mean i did have the instructions that came in the box (those black and white ones tellin you how to put them on the front and rears) when i installed them and i did it the way it said. Those are actually the instructions i'm lookin to get if someone can like scan them or something for me. I wana get AGX's but even when i do that that wont solve my problem, for the coilovers would still be loose and stuff like they are. I just need to know what fixes this, or is this guy wrong and they should be like that?


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

speedricer said:


> um i forget, i'll get you the spring rate when i get home, but i know when lifted the springs dont touch. He was talkin about it being has to be seated and stuff. I mean so is he wrong? It's not unsafe for the spring to giggle and be able to move when the car is jacked up right? I mean i did have the instructions that came in the box (those black and white ones tellin you how to put them on the front and rears) when i installed them and i did it the way it said. Those are actually the instructions i'm lookin to get if someone can like scan them or something for me. I wana get AGX's but even when i do that that wont solve my problem, for the coilovers would still be loose and stuff like they are. I just need to know what fixes this, or is this guy wrong and they should be like that?


Not the spring rate, you're looking for the free length. It's part of the markings on the springs, and it's supposed to be expressed in inches (oddly enough). If you can't figure out which one it is, you can just put a ruler up to it while it's under no compression and measure the total length of the spring.

If the springs are too short, there are only two solutions:
1. Have the springs exchanged for ones with longer free length. Since Ground Control uses ERS springs for their kits, they have them in all sorts of shapes and sizes. All you have to do is measure the distance between the perches at the height you're most likely to use (just in case) and use that as the new free length. It's definately not an immediate solution, but it's the best solution.

2. Install helper springs. Helper springs are springs of a very low spring rate (like 20lbs/in or less) which basically add free length to the spring. Unfortunately, you'd have to find a source for these springs, then find a perch that will fit between the main spring and the helper. It's a lot of work/money and it usually is only a practical solution when you can't get new springs in time (rarely the case).

Usually, it's ok for the spring to be shorter than necessary if the roads are smooth enough. That guy isn't completely bsing you. If your springs are loose, there is the possibility that it will get seated the wrong way when the load comes back down on the spring, and there is the possibility that it will hit the wrong part of the perch and go through. Yes, it's very unlikely, but it's possible. The reason a lot of us like to get the right length is because of the noise it makes (clunka clunka clunka over potholes) and the weird suspension characteristics the car exhibits immediately after it comes out of the full-droop state (like when you go over a mound too fast, the suspension seems to wash out to the side a bit after your front wheel lands. It's annoying).

So to sum it all up: The guy isn't completely wrong, the instructions aren't wrong, and the solution would be to get the same spring in a different free length.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

ok, so what your saying is i should uncompress the strut (jack up the car) and get a spring that will fit up that entire gap? Should i turn the collar for the coilover all the way up and get that size, or turn the collar all the way to the lowest point and get that size? Also by gettin a spring to fit that entire length of the sturt, doesnt that defeat the purpose of lowerin the car? Like i'll just end up with springs almost the same size as the stock ones when they are compressed


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

speedricer said:


> ok, so what your saying is i should uncompress the strut (jack up the car) and get a spring that will fit up that entire gap? Should i turn the collar for the coilover all the way up and get that size, or turn the collar all the way to the lowest point and get that size?


That's right. Set it to around where you think you're going to be using it. It really doesn't matter in theory, but just in case.



speedricer said:


> Also by gettin a spring to fit that entire length of the sturt, doesnt that defeat the purpose of lowerin the car? Like i'll just end up with springs almost the same size as the stock ones when they are compressed


Nope. Free length is just the length of the spring when it's uncompressed. It's possible to get the same exact spring characteristics with a different free length. Eibach makes them, and you should be able to get them (if this was a recent purchase and you got it from a dealer with enough stock, you should be able to do the exchange for free).


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

Nah i gottem offa private seller. So what your saying is i'm looking to buy a spring that looks really streched out uncompressed, but when it compresses it should go down to be the same size as the small springs i have on now?

oh, and if thats the cuz, how would you adjust the collar then (that adjusts the height) if i gotta spring that would fit the entire length with the collar all the way down. I'd have to compress the spring (with like spring compressers) then turn the collar up to where i wanted it then uncompress the spring again (take off the compressers)


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

speedricer said:


> Nah i gottem offa private seller. So what your saying is i'm looking to buy a spring that looks really streched out uncompressed, but when it compresses it should go down to be the same size as the small springs i have on now?


Well, the springs aren't going to be "stretched out" per se. They're just going to start longer. But yeah. that's the gist of it.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

*edited last post*

so thin kyou can direct me to what size i should be getting (for a b14 with OEM sturts as of now) with the collar all the way to the lowest point?


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

speedricer said:


> *edited last post*
> 
> so thin kyou can direct me to what size i should be getting (for a b14 with OEM sturts as of now) with the collar all the way to the lowest point?


I think I saw a post in this section a while back saying that the proper free length is 9 inches. You should measure it yourself though, just to make sure.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

now thats to fill the entire space of the uncompressed strut? And how would you adjust the collar on the coilover if you get a spring that fills up the entire space (considering you have the collar dropped all the way) you'd ahve to compress the spring so there wasnt any resistence so you could turn the collar up and raise the drop height?


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

speedricer said:


> now thats to fill the entire space of the uncompressed strut? And how would you adjust the collar on the coilover if you get a spring that fills up the entire space (considering you have the collar dropped all the way) you'd ahve to compress the spring so there wasnt any resistence so you could turn the collar up and raise the drop height?


Um... when you change the ride height and the car's on the ground, the spring is already under compression. Installing a slightly taller spring with the same characteristics isn't going to change this much.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

so by installin the taller springs, it should still be a little lose, and there shouldnt be any real restriction from the spring when i turn the collar to make the right height futher off the ground?


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

speedricer said:



> so by installin the taller springs, it should still be a little lose, and there shouldnt be any real restriction from the spring when i turn the collar to make the right height futher off the ground?


No. If there is, it's nto the spring you need.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

no what, no there should be no space, or no it shouldnt be restricting? (sorry)


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

speedricer said:


> no what, no there should be no space, or no it shouldnt be restricting? (sorry)


There should be no space and there should be no restriction when adjusting the ride height.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

can you point me in the direct (or link me) to where i can find thr right size springs?


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

speedricer said:


> can you point me in the direct (or link me) to where i can find thr right size springs?


You can get them anywhere where you can get Eibach ERS springs. Once you've measured the size and you've copied down the numbers on your current springs, ask any Eibach retailer (Ground Control should be the first place you ask) for the right size springs.


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

I have 7" springs and when they are turned up they are under compression you dont really need any new springs. If that is your only problem with your set up


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

b4 i let this thread die, i got one more questions, if i were to get a set of KYB AGX's like i planned, would that basicly get rid of any problems i would have with the spring on my coilovers being to short considering i could just adjust the sturt to bein smaller or whatever? (or whatever the adjusting does)


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

speedricer said:


> b4 i let this thread die, i got one more questions, if i were to get a set of KYB AGX's like i planned, would that basicly get rid of any problems i would have with the spring on my coilovers being to short considering i could just adjust the sturt to bein smaller or whatever? (or whatever the adjusting does)


The adjustment allows you to set the damping characteristics, but it won't change the length of the damers themselves. If the dampers are a different shape than your stock struts (last I checked, I don't think the lengths differed), that may change it. Otherwise, it won't do anything to solve this problem.


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## speedricer (Mar 10, 2004)

hrm, well can someone tell me what coilovers and struts i should get? Like a direct link to some. Or gimme some exact numbers of sizes and shit. I was gunna go with the GC Coilover and AGX combo. My suspension is just pissin me off cuz it wont pass inspection so imma put stock back on and sell what i have and just start from scratch, so can someone help me out on what i should by (that will pass inspection)


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