# Losing control on wet roads?



## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

This is a problem that showed up recently. On dry roads I have great traction but when it gets wet the front end will slip at random moments. First off the tires are not a possibility. I have BF Goodrich Traction T/A's on the front with almost all the tread still left. Besides the fact to test them, when I was having problems and pulled over the one time I nailed to brakes to see if I'd slide and I didn't, came to a fast stop. I occasionally hear a pop from the front end. I know what a cv joint sounds like and this is a pop not a click. I've check the inner and outer tie rod endlinks, checked the ball joints, check springs, brakes, and lug nuts. I can't find anything wrong. Any ideas? This is starting to drive me nuts cuz with these tires I use to be able to drive the speed limit or over and not have to worry at all in rain but now when it rains I'm afraid to pass 30 mph.

Mitch


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

Too much air pressure can cause loss in traction... at least it's something easily checked.


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## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

also, note that with the unequal length of the half shafts, the driver's tend to slip faster and sooner than the rh side. hydroplaning is bad, no matter what kind of tires you have. and yeah, check the tire pressures.


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

azkicker0027 said:


> also, note that with the unequal length of the half shafts, the driver's tend to slip faster and sooner than the rh side. hydroplaning is bad, no matter what kind of tires you have. and yeah, check the tire pressures.


tire pressure is at 40 psi on drivers side and 39 psi on passenger side. And to clarify why I know this isn't normal I've had these tires since the fall. They are excellent tires. Work very well in snow and til now I've never had any problems on wet roads. I ussually can drive on wet roads the same as dry but not anymore and I shouldn't have this much trouble anyways. I should be able to drive on wet roads at 40-50 mph even on cheaper tires without the car trying to slide off the road. Everyone I've talked to has told me it's really weird and shouldn't happen. 

Mitch


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## tony200 (Mar 23, 2005)

32 in the front/ 35 in the rear


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

mithc, just ditch the car and get ready to buy mine... also check to see if you are gettin any excess wear onyour tires.. like alignment or anything like that, i know my car used to slip often when i didn't have it aligned righ


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

tony200 said:


> 32 in the front/ 35 in the rear


yeah but tire pressure also varies between tires. mine are 44 max so I keep them at about 40 and have never had issues before so if it were the problem it would have caused issues all along and not start now.

Mitch


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

psuLemon said:


> mithc, just ditch the car and get ready to buy mine... also check to see if you are gettin any excess wear onyour tires.. like alignment or anything like that, i know my car used to slip often when i didn't have it aligned righ


haha. well the tire wear is even. however the alignment is strange and I think whatever is wrong has something to do with it. Sometimes it's off one direction and sometimes it's off the other direction. and sometimes its fine. however it can be fine and when I hit a bump it starts to veer to one side again. most of the time it's goes toward the side of the road but sometimes goes toward the middle.

Mitch


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## davido (Aug 23, 2004)

*re*

is it happening only if you are using cruise control, if you have cruise. anyway my 98 sentra does the same thing if i am on wet road and using the cruise, I don't use cruise anymore if the streets are wet.


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

davido said:


> is it happening only if you are using cruise control, if you have cruise. anyway my 98 sentra does the same thing if i am on wet road and using the cruise, I don't use cruise anymore if the streets are wet.


Nope. To be honest in the past when I used cruise control in the rain I never had any issues.

Mitch


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## richm2256 (Jun 13, 2005)

The answer is simple and right in front of you...... your tires have become allergic to rain. :crazy:


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## Twiz (Aug 24, 2004)

I had this problem before when I installed my new wheels/tires. Some tires will have an arrow on the sidewall and it'll have "Rotation" written next to it. The arrow should point at the front of the car when it's at the top of that tire. I'd try to get all tires rotated and your handling might improve. Apparently your tires can't displace and channel the water properly.


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

Twiz said:


> I had this problem before when I installed my new wheels/tires. Some tires will have an arrow on the sidewall and it'll have "Rotation" written next to it. The arrow should point at the front of the car when it's at the top of that tire. I'd try to get all tires rotated and your handling might improve. Apparently your tires can't displace and channel the water properly.


Well displacing water ain't an issue with these tires. I know that cuz this issue came up suddenly and when it started to happen I also noticed an occasional pop from the front end so I know it aint the tires and as previously stated I've even nailed the brakes on wet roads to test the tires and didn't slide at all. I can to a fast stop. I was talking with a co-worker who knows cars really well and we think we know what it is, the rack and pinion. I'm gonna look for a used one from a yard for cheap and hopefully that does the trick.

Mitch


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## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

so there's internal play in the rack?? but aren't we "supposed" to run the pressures noted on the placard on the b-pillar??


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

40psi is way too much for street tires.

no more than 35psi, and I do that all the way around


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

chimmike said:


> 40psi is way too much for street tires.
> 
> no more than 35psi, and I do that all the way around


Well these are high performance all weather tires nonetheless I was following that the tires say 44psi max so I ussually have them around 35 to 40psi. I can change the psi however I know that isn't causing any problem since they've always been like that and handling issues didn't start til now. I'll replace the rack and pinion and hopefully that does the trick. First gotta find one that I can afford haha.

Mitch


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

just because the tires say 44psi max doesn't mean to run the pressure that high!!!!!

Seriously, where did you learn this stuff?

lower the pressure to 32-35psi and NO MORE! High performance or not, it doesn't matter a damn. Unless they're $1,000 each tire and have a specific psi rating for EACH tire, don't be going by what the "max psi" is on each tire. That's just dumb.

power steering isn't causing your tires to slide in wet weather man, that absurdly high tire pressure is!


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

chimmike said:


> power steering isn't causing your tires to slide in wet weather man, that absurdly high tire pressure is!


I'm calling BS on that. If that is the case then why is it just becoming a problem now? If that was the problem then why hasn't it been like this since I put the tires on? And considering I occasionally her a pop that started when I started having problems with the car tell me how the 5 extra psi is causing a popping noise. Seriously mike, be realistic. You know darn well that the tire pressure isn't causing a problem. It's something else so quit pointing your finger at that and point it at something that is probable. It seems you are more interesting in critizing me than helping me. Remember this aint the off topic section.

Mitch


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## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

nonetheless, tire pressures are should be the ones from the label, or a little higher. for those novices that just found out about this issue.

the rack?? if it does fix it, then share the info, again, for novices sake. :cheers:


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## SergioCR (Sep 18, 2002)

sentra97gxe said:


> I'm calling BS on that. If that is the case then why is it just becoming a problem now? If that was the problem then why hasn't it been like this since I put the tires on? And considering I occasionally her a pop that started when I started having problems with the car tell me how the 5 extra psi is causing a popping noise. Seriously mike, be realistic. You know darn well that the tire pressure isn't causing a problem. It's something else so quit pointing your finger at that and point it at something that is probable. It seems you are more interesting in critizing me than helping me. Remember this aint the off topic section.
> 
> Mitch


Hi
Well, i think tire pressure IS important since if tires are "too hard" because of overpressure wont grab the street the way they should, what happens with a soft ballon when pressed to a flat surface? it curves a little and allow more rubber to touch the flat area but what happens to a hard ball under the same test? tires should be flat against the street at least to have good handling and good tire performance, if overpressured it will wear at center if underpressured it will wear at sides.

About the popping noise, have you checked under the car? axles? check all the bushings and bolts to be tight... if one is loose or wear, it could cause to loose control time to time since the entire axle would move back and forward...


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## wildmanee (Nov 21, 2004)

To be honest, you must be taking corners fast. I know both my ball joints are fucked (leaking grease hardcore), my right side CV axle is probably messed up, and my alignment on my right wheel is messed up as well. I have BF Goodrich Traction T/A's with 95% tread left and the only time my back end swings out is when I'm taking a corner too fast. If you lower your tire pressure, it will definitely help. Traction = how much grip your tires have on the road, traction begins and ends with the tires. Your steering might be affected somehow by some shitty handling/suspension/steering part that's old or something, but it should no way cause the back tires to break loose unless it's completely screwing with you each time you turn the wheel. Could also just be your tires have worn greatly within the past few months?


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

wildmane said:


> To be honest, you must be taking corners fast. I know both my ball joints are fucked (leaking grease hardcore), my right side CV axle is probably messed up, and my alignment on my right wheel is messed up as well. I have BF Goodrich Traction T/A's with 95% tread left and the only time my back end swings out is when I'm taking a corner too fast. If you lower your tire pressure, it will definitely help. Traction = how much grip your tires have on the road, traction begins and ends with the tires. Your steering might be affected somehow by some shitty handling/suspension/steering part that's old or something, but it should no way cause the back tires to break loose unless it's completely screwing with you each time you turn the wheel. Could also just be your tires have worn greatly within the past few months?


Like I've said before, the tires still have almost all of the tread left. Probably about 80-90%. And this isn't only corners. Any time over 30 mph on wet roads if I hit a bump on something when going straight the front end starts to slip. My friend and I have jacked the car up and checked everything on the suspension as I have previously stated. When I replace the rack and pinion I'll let yall know if it did the trick. 

Mitch


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

SergioCR said:


> Hi
> Well, i think tire pressure IS important since if tires are "too hard" because of overpressure wont grab the street the way they should, what happens with a soft ballon when pressed to a flat surface? it curves a little and allow more rubber to touch the flat area but what happens to a hard ball under the same test? tires should be flat against the street at least to have good handling and good tire performance, if overpressured it will wear at center if underpressured it will wear at sides.
> 
> About the popping noise, have you checked under the car? axles? check all the bushings and bolts to be tight... if one is loose or wear, it could cause to loose control time to time since the entire axle would move back and forward...


For the last time the tire pressure is the same as it has been since the fall and this problem just showed up a few weeks ago. I don't have the stock steelies I have 15" ser rims so these tires have more rubber on the road that stock steelies would. This is too dramatic of a difference to be caused by 5 psi anyways. Also, as far as checking under the car and stuff, please read the previous post in this thread before mentioning stuff cuz in my first few posts I mentioned that my friend and I already checked everything within the suspension down to checking every bolt.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

i don't care, I'm telling you, CHANGE YOUR GODDAMN TIRE PRESSURE TO 32-35psi ALL THE WAY AROUND!

it'll take you 30 seconds, and there's NO UNGODLY REASON you should EVER have your tires in that car at 40psi.


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

chimmike said:


> CHANGE YOUR GODDAMN TIRE PRESSURE TO 32-35psi ALL THE WAY AROUND!




Exactly what I wanted to say after seeing how stubborn you are being about just lowering your tire pressure down. This has got to be the dumbest thing to be stubborn about. It's so obvious why you are incurring slippage under wet conditions (which is way too high *TIRE PRESSURE*), yet you insist on doing what you want. If you don't want to do as advised, why even bother asking about what's happening to your car? A guy working at a tire shop will tell you exactly what everyone in this thread have been telling you.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

I agree about pressure, or it's at least worth a shot. It will make you hydroplane more quickly in wet conditions among other things. 40 PSI is an aweful lot under daily conditions, granted all tires are different, I would start at 35 and see how it feels afterwards. 

Also check the power steering fluid, the hose is notorious for leaks...


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## tg900 (Jun 29, 2005)

if you've had them since winter, you might have to change the pressure, since air is more dense when its cooler, and the heating of the weather would expand the air. Your tire pressure could have been like 32 in the winter, but with the hotter weather, it could of gone up. I usually do pressure checks when it starts to get cold, when its real cold, when it starts to warm up, and when its real warm.


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

I'm not trying to be stubborn. My point is that if it were having too much pressure then why did it not start causing problems til about 3 weeks ago? I'm not saying the tire pressure should be 40 I'm merely saying that since my traction issues started recently(along with here a pop from the front end) that what is causing my problem has to be something else. I have no problem changing the pressure it's just I'm tired of everyone trying to say that the tire pressure is causing my problems when I know (and have already stated many times why) it cant be. I know it has to be something mechanically cuz like I said before the alignment seems to randomly change from being off in one direction to being off in another and when I explained my issues to a guy I work with who is very good with cars he told me right off the bat that it was the rack and pinion. I then stated that I came to that conclusion and mike had to respond saying that it can't be that that it has to be the tire pressure. Like I've said numerous times, tire pressure has been ruled out so please peope quit pointing at it. If all your gonna do is say it's something that I've stated proof that it can't be then don't respond at all. I already stated that I'm planning to replace the rack and pinion and see what that does as I've found everything in the suspension checks out and the rack and pinion seems very likely to be the cause of my problem. So like I said the other day, when I replace it I will let you all know if that was the problem. If I knew I was gonna get responses like this I would have never posted in the first place. And for the last time, NO MORE TIRE PRESSURE BS


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

wes said:


> I agree about pressure, or it's at least worth a shot. It will make you hydroplane more quickly in wet conditions among other things. 40 PSI is an aweful lot under daily conditions, granted all tires are different, I would start at 35 and see how it feels afterwards.
> 
> Also check the power steering fluid, the hose is notorious for leaks...


I have checked the fluid and while it is fine I know the one boot on the rack is leaking which has also lead me to believe the rack and pinion. Thank you for not being like everyone else by ateast looking at another possibility. :thumbup:


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

sentra97gxe said:


> I'm not trying to be stubborn. My point is that if it were having too much pressure then why did it not start causing problems til about 3 weeks ago? I'm not saying the tire pressure should be 40 I'm merely saying that since my traction issues started recently(along with here a pop from the front end) that what is causing my problem has to be something else. I have no problem changing the pressure it's just I'm tired of everyone trying to say that the tire pressure is causing my problems when I know (and have already stated many times why) it cant be. I know it has to be something mechanically cuz like I said before the alignment seems to randomly change from being off in one direction to being off in another and when I explained my issues to a guy I work with who is very good with cars he told me right off the bat that it was the rack and pinion. I then stated that I came to that conclusion and mike had to respond saying that it can't be that that it has to be the tire pressure. Like I've said numerous times, tire pressure has been ruled out so please peope quit pointing at it. If all your gonna do is say it's something that I've stated proof that it can't be then don't respond at all. I already stated that I'm planning to replace the rack and pinion and see what that does as I've found everything in the suspension checks out and the rack and pinion seems very likely to be the cause of my problem. So like I said the other day, when I replace it I will let you all know if that was the problem. If I knew I was gonna get responses like this I would have never posted in the first place. And for the last time, NO MORE TIRE PRESSURE BS



Did you check the tire pressures? Sorry couldn't resist..

What about the PS fluid, I didn't see you comment on that, or if you did I missed it.


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## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

> 40psi is way too much for street tires.


Says who???After I started autocrossing, I ran 40 psi give-or-take all the time. Turn-in is great! Just watch tread wear and adjust pressure as needed. Ride suffers only slightly.

I had a popping issue at one time and it was a loose strut bolt.


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## Petrovich (May 13, 2005)

Just bought my friend an 87 accord to use for the summer. Perfect car, real cheap, got AC filled up, but checked the tires and they were 60psi on all corners. No wonder the car felt like a 4-wheel hardtail chopper


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

bahearn said:


> Says who???



Says me. Bruce, you're talking in the context of auto-x. That's a whole different deal altogether buddy. Even I bumped up the pressure on my tires to about 40-ish psi when I took the car out to the racecourse track. This thread is talking about regular street-driving conditions.


On a wet surface, you know as well as anyone else with experience that a highly inflated tire will lose traction considerably compared to a tire with normal manufacturer/OEM-recommended inflation.


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

Harris said:


> Says me. Bruce, you're talking in the context of auto-x. That's a whole different deal altogether buddy. Even I bumped up the pressure on my tires to about 40-ish psi when I took the car out to the racecourse track. This thread is talking about regular street-driving conditions.
> 
> 
> On a wet surface, you know as well as anyone else with experience that a highly inflated tire will lose traction considerably compared to a tire with normal manufacturer/OEM-recommended inflation.


I understand what you are saying Harris however whatever is wrong with my car is not just on wet roads. On dry roads when I hit bumps and stuff it almost feels like the lugs are loose kinda. I can feel something through the steering wheel that I know I've never felt before. It feels like a nut or something in the suspension is loose however every nut and bolt within the suspension has been checked twice now and there are all good. If this were a problem I've had all along then something like tire pressure would make sense but you have to agree that if the extra 5 psi were causing my problems then it would have been a problem all along istead of starting suddenly about 3 weeks ago. Before these issues started these tires grab the road better than any tire I've ever had. I could drive on wet roads the same as dry and had no difference in traction(now thats driving normal and not like a bat out of hell but previous tires I'd have to take it easy on wet roads as compared to dry). The fact that when turning( at stop signs and stuff) it steers strangely no matter what weather. As in I turn the wheel so far and hold it there and as I'm turning sometimes it will steer a little sharper in the middle of the turn without me moving the steering wheel at all. Thats what my co worker said points right at the rack and pinion.


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## Twiz (Aug 24, 2004)

I agree... 40 psi is insane... that's gonna put a lot of wear on your ball joints. I set mine at 32 psi and I think that's too much.


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## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

I guess I should have spelled out that I left the tires at ~40 psi once I started autocrossing. 24/7/52. All the time. Day or night. Rain or shine. I still say it isn't too much as long as tire wear is watched. My tires wore quite evenly at 40-plus. *WATCH FOR UNEVEN WEAR*.

As an additional, though tangential, data point, my Dakota manual says to run 44 psi in the 255/60-16 OE tires. I'm to increase rear tire pressure when towing or carrying a heavy load in the box.

I don't why you guys are afraid of mechanical wear; it ain't gonna happen from too much tire pressure.


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

sentra97gxe said:


> I understand what you are saying Harris however whatever is wrong with my car is not just on wet roads. On dry roads when I hit bumps and stuff it almost feels like the lugs are loose kinda. I can feel something through the steering wheel that I know I've never felt before. It feels like a nut or something in the suspension is loose however every nut and bolt within the suspension has been checked twice now and there are all good. If this were a problem I've had all along then something like tire pressure would make sense but you have to agree that if the extra 5 psi were causing my problems then it would have been a problem all along istead of starting suddenly about 3 weeks ago. Before these issues started these tires grab the road better than any tire I've ever had. I could drive on wet roads the same as dry and had no difference in traction(now thats driving normal and not like a bat out of hell but previous tires I'd have to take it easy on wet roads as compared to dry). The fact that when turning( at stop signs and stuff) it steers strangely no matter what weather. As in I turn the wheel so far and hold it there and as I'm turning sometimes it will steer a little sharper in the middle of the turn without me moving the steering wheel at all. Thats what my co worker said points right at the rack and pinion.


I agree with you, check the ball joints at the end of the rack, and free play. Also do not forget the rack mounts, these can get old and lose, and the rack will move around on you.


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

IanH said:


> I agree with you, check the ball joints at the end of the rack, and free play. Also do not forget the rack mounts, these can get old and lose, and the rack will move around on you.


well my friend and i checked the ball joints. we've shook the wheels in every way possible and found no play. However I know it's leakin fluid from the one boot on the rack. I'm gonna start with the rack and pinion and then if that don't do it then the ball joints. My friend works at a shop and gets a discount on dealer parts so I'm pretty much set there just gotta start trying stuff.

Mitch


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## mikewiebe1987 (Nov 3, 2005)

aaaand????


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## nova73guy (Mar 30, 2004)

sentra97gxe said:


> yeah but tire pressure also varies between tires. mine are 44 max so I keep them at about 40 and have never had issues before so if it were the problem it would have caused issues all along and not start now.
> 
> Mitch


Actually, setting tires according to the max pressure isn't the best. Of course, what the manufacturer recommends isn't great either. Run between 32-35psi and you should be fine. Of course, hydroplaning will still be an issue at speeds over 50.


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## brycestejskal (Aug 3, 2005)

I agree, 40psi is much to high. I once put my tires at 42 and it was deffinitly not good. Felt like the equivelant of walking while drunk... learned my lesson. Even if that is not your problem (which sounds like it isn't) you should lower your psi. And hey if you dont like the way it drives go ahead and put it back up then. But you should atleast try it before and after your problem is fixed.


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## nova73guy (Mar 30, 2004)

Why the hell did I reply to such an old thread? :balls:


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