# to swap or not?



## Guest (Apr 14, 2003)

i wanna soup up my s14 solely for street racing. you know what i mean, just racing a random car whenever you happen to stop at a light or something like that. i don't think i'll bring it to a track to race people but who knows right? anyways, i'm debating whether i should just get a turbo for my ka24de or spend more money for an sr20det swap. what do you think?


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## esyip (Dec 19, 2002)

pAnsit Cant0n said:


> *i wanna soup up my s14 solely for street racing.*


i heard that chicken noodle soup works best.


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## drift240sxdragqueen (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: Re: to swap or not?*



esyip said:


> *i heard that chicken noodle soup works best.  *


LOL... i like clam chowder... it gives me more power to the wheels


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2003)

c'mon guys! i really need your opinions here... and about the car too! (actually, i think the best soup is this asparagus soup i tried once in this chinese restaurant i know)
hehehe...


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## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

i'm completely against street racing, but what you do all depends on the size of your wallet. a stock SR20 will give you quite a jump and you can always turn up the boost with that. turboing a KA24 will give you around the same amount of power with a lot more torque. of course, the KA24 wasnt built for power, altho it is a stout engine. but going over anything like 7 or 8 psi of boost, would lead me to want to upgrade the internals and such. just me tho.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

LOL.. clam chowder is rather good

if you wanna turbo a ka24, its gonna cost you about the same as getting a sr20det swap done. also, you'll probably get more power out of the sr20det than the turbo charged KA24. The ka24 probably has high mileage and in not-so-perfect condition.

s13 redtop: 200-205hp 2500$
s13 blacktop: 200-205hp 2700$ (slightly newer than redtops)
s14 sr20det: 220hp 3000$

these are the prices of the front clip. the installation will run about 1500$.

the mechanics of the swap is rather simple and can be done at home if you have the knowledge/equipment/tools
wiring needs to be redone
1.go to a shop and get it wired fro 500$
2.get a prewired harness to plug/play ro 200$
3.buy a s13/s14 service manual and trace back every single wire back one by one. they may not work, trial and error is a huge pain in the ass

no ka is worth modifying.. get the sr20det swap and please don't race in the streets. (don't want to be finger pointing but..) people that race in the streets are the one that causes accidents and gives imports/tuners a bad reputation of wreckless driving.


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## mellojoe (Mar 24, 2003)

Please don't say that the KA isn't worth modifying. Yes, the stock system is only good for 7psi. However, I've seen a 5psi pushing 220hp to the wheels. And that was for only $1500. More power, less money, gobs of torque.

It is only the stock fuel system that can hold 7psi. Larger injectors and a bigger fuel pump and you are good to go.

Both the SR20DET and the KA24DET max out around 350hp before you have to build the internals. But a safe 300 to 350 rear-wheel horsepower can be had by each with a "simple" fuel system upgrade.

The differences in the KA and SR? The KA is a torque monster, and the SR rev's like a Formula-1 car. Take your pick: which do you perfer? Then go for it.

If you are on a budget, then a 5psi, non-intercooled turbo-kit for the KA can give you some decent numbers. Then as you get money, you can add the intercooler and up the boost a couple of psi. Then, once you can afford it, upgrade the fuel injectors and the fuel pump. Then you can really turn up the boost.

If you have a chunk of cash in hand now: you might look at the swap. That will give you that "JDM" flavor and give you a stout motor with, yes, probably fewer miles.

(edit) LINKY: http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8769


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

i was at speedoptions for a while and everybody over there thought that the ka was a useless engine.. here at nissanforums, a lot of people seem to like the ka24. it is true that it can produce a lot of torque and a lot of power.

some advantages the sr has over the ka:
weight: sr is considerably lighter than the ka
mileage: normally, the sr20's you get from japan are very low in mileage compared to the ka24's found in us with mid-high mileage
condition: shops that bring sr20's from japan make sure that the engine is in a good condition. if they weren't they would ruin their rep and lose business..

some advantages the ka has over the sr
torque: produces a lot more torque than the sr
legal: the ka24 powerplant is actually legal in the states.. the SR20 cannot pass emissions no matter what..
price: i maybe wrong on this but.. ka is cheaper to mod than a sr??
common: the ka24 is a lot more common in the states (kinda obvious but thought i would mention it anyways) OEM parts could be taken from other KA engines

im sure there are a lot more advantages/disadvantages for the sr20's and the ka24's..
im beginning to see that there is a lot more potential the ka24 has than i thought. i truly think the ka24 is rather underrated engine.

i'm sorry if i was dissing the ka24. i never realized the potential of the ka24 and always thought that the Sr20 ruled over all.. guess not..


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## mellojoe (Mar 24, 2003)

And, yes, one of the biggest advantages of the SR20 is that you are swapping a motor with a heck of a lot less miles.

My KA currently has over 90,000 miles. I don't know that I would try to add a turbo to it. A blown headgasket is not too far off if I'm not careful.

I could go out and buy a motor with less than 40,000 (some close to 30,000) miles. That is a brand new engine.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

when i first got into planning my 240sx out, i was thinking about just putting turbo charger on my KA24. It had 100K+ miles on it so i wasn't very sure.. a few people has told me that it is possible to build the KA to produce huge amounts of power/torque but they advised that i get a newer KA24 engine if i was to modify my car. They also warned me that it is rather difficult to find a newer/lower mileage/good condition KA24DE.. from that point, the SR20DET swap seemed like the only choice..


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## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

you guys talk about mileage like it's such a huge deal. it's really not tho, especially if you plan on building the internals. you can always bore an engine. if you have an engine that is so badly worn, you would know just by letting it run. it would be rather loud due to piston-slap, and it would also be low on power. but anyways, i am going to build my engine starting from the bottom end like it should be done, and i'm doing it myself. i have access and knowledge to do all the work myself, so maybe it's just me that thinks about how worn an engine is. i can fix that myself. who knows.


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## mellojoe (Mar 24, 2003)

Very true. If you plan on building the internals, than mileage isn't a major concern. 

I was mainly talking about those on a budget that want just "bolt-on" power. And a turbo can be a "bolt-on" project if you want it to be.

Or, like in your case, it can be a complete rebuild.

Good luck. Keep us informed of your project.


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## drift240sxdragqueen (Oct 23, 2002)

vsp3c, u forget wut part of the 240sx area ur in this is the S14 section 95-98 that means their KA's will not have as much mileage as that of the S13's.

and anohter point for the KA over the SR
iron block vs aluminum 

gotta love the KA
gotta love the 240sx
all engines that are placed in a 240sx are GOOD engines, if not... they would be put into a honda


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

Don't forget that the KA24DE is still produced in RWD form for US consumption in the Frontier pickups, so it's not all that hard to come by.The Frontier engines also have a lower compression ratio than a 240SX KA(9.5:1, if memory serves)making them more suitable for turbocharging.The downside to the KA?Not as much aftermarket support as the SR.Things like camshafts are hard to come by for a KA.However, you could also get a KA24DE core from a junkyard(I saw 2 for $100 each the other day) and build it as a turbo engine.The point is that either engine has lots of potential and it is up to you as to what you want to do.As for me, I am considering building a KA24DET for my Frontier(and that's why I browse this part of the forum)The SR swap is common: a built KA would make your car unique.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

mellojoe said:


> *Very true. If you plan on building the internals, than mileage isn't a major concern.
> 
> I was mainly talking about those on a budget that want just "bolt-on" power. And a turbo can be a "bolt-on" project if you want it to be.
> 
> ...


sorry sorry sorry.. i have a 93 240sx so "high mileage ka24" is drilled into my head. i apologize. there is nothing wrong with building a ka24de. yes mileage does not really matter if your going to build internals.

the issue of KA vs SR will be never settled..they are both AWESOME engines.


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## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

has anyone else noticed what this 14year old kid does? he has been reading different posts and posting that information in another thread making himself sound like he has some intelligence. he does nothing but repeat what others have said. i hope no one is really listening to him.


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## Guest (May 24, 2003)

Actually, I find this 14 y/o kid very helpful. =)


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## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

it isnt really him you find helpful. all of his information is from someone else. i reallize that everyone starts somewhere, but he brings himself in here and claims to be a nissan know-it-all when he really knows nothing.


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

Leave the poor kid alone!He's willing to learn and tries to help others with what he picks up.If the information he gives is correct then who cares where he learned it from?


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

isn't that how you learn?? when you were in 1st grade, your teacher taught you that 2+2=4. she had to learn that too when she was in 1st grade... she's just passing her knowledge along to you. i'm doing the same. i'm just passing the knowledge along. i do not recall ever calling myself a nissan know it all... i don't know it all. i have no idea what compression ratios are good, gear ratios, programming ecu's, etc etc. i wish i did though so that i may help people out better.

i believe forums were created so that people with knowledge may pass that knowledge onto other people. if i learned about 240sx/sr20's from my dad or brother or whatever, i'm sure you guys wouldn't mind that i'm posting info. because i learned everything from other forums/threads, you guys think that i'm just repeating them. i'm not. how would i repeat others if i had no idea what they were talking about or understand the info?

if i was claiming to be a nissan know it all, i apologize. thank you kit99bar and himilefrontier for backing me up. 93blackser, no offense but you are doing the same thing. you have learned stuff ffrom others and you are just passing it along. in another words, you are repeating what other people has said or told you.

this is an actual pm that was shared between me and ccroaddog.

Re: 14 years old? 
sounds like you got your head on straight. keep it up!!






quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

vsp3c wrote on 05-20-2003 05:45 PM:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ccroaddog wrote on 05-21-2003 01:39 AM:
how do you happen to know so much about sr20's and such at your age? no offense.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



hahaha..no offense taken.. i don't really know.. i've been obsessed with imports since i was like 12... im stuck at my comp all day reading up on sr20 swaps, forums, and other imports. i have a 240sx waiting for me and being into imports, i wanted to know what i could do to it.. before my 240sx, i was into hondas and those huge airplanes wings..lol.. i have now crossed from the dark side..

i'm also my school's sophomore student council president, will play varstiy football next year (fullback and linebacker), the top weight lifter in my grade, took calculus as a freshmen, play bass in a band, etc etc..

imports are my obsession, my infatuation, and my love..


if you don't believe me because this is coming from a 14 year old that doesn't even have a permit yet, pm ccroaddog and ask him


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## drift240sxdragqueen (Oct 23, 2002)

i don\'t see it as repeating information, i jsut see it as post whoring, he posted in threads that were long out dated.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

thnx (for calling me a post whore) and i'm sorry if i did that (post in old threads)...won't happen anymore. also, i will try to cut down on the number of my posts and try not to repeat anthing.


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## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

if you are implying that i dont know anything about cars, you're completely wrong. i've been following the import scene since mid 98 and have almost every issue of many different magazines - Sport Compact Car, Super Street, Import Tuner, Turbo, Import Racer, as well as many various issues of other magazines. i have read every car magazine that i can find, as well as many books. i have books on custom body work, engine builders guides, painting, turbo building, supercharger guides. i also know how engines work. i bet you cant tell me anything about the inner workings of an engine, can you? i bet you dont even know what 4stroke cycle of an engine is, can you? i can pull apart an engine or transmission and put it back together fully built. i'm not saying that i'm better than anyone else or that i'm smarter than anyone else, i'm just saying that i have a vast knowledge of cars in general, not just nissans. and honestly, if you have any questions about engines or anything, feel free to PM me and ask me, i'd be willing to help. i am glad to see that people are getting interested in cars at younger ages. dont feel that i am not, it's just that you have a lot to learn before you should be giving out real advice. and i admit, i have a lot to learn to, but who doesnt?


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

i believe that you know a WHOLE LOT about engines than i do. i never said i'm better than everybody else and never said that you're worse than everybody else. 93blackser, i have nothing but respect for you and other people on these forums. they are there to help others out and teach them things about cars. they could be out there, working, earning more money for themselves to put into their rides... you guys are taking time to help others out and i respect that.



93blackSER said:


> *it's just that you have a lot to learn before you should be giving out real advice*


thanks for pointing that out. i have never really thought about it that much. it is true that i do not know much about cars but i do know a little bit about cars. i'm just trying to help people with what little i know. i do not give out false information and if i ever did, i apologize. because i am only 14, a lot of people would say, "you don't even know how to drive, why should i listen to you?" this is true... if i was older, around 18-19, this wouldn't happen. it is true that i would gain more knowledge over the years and my information would be even better. People would actually trust me and take my advice. i'm not saying that you don't trust other people. i don't even care if you take my advice or not. my advice is basically my opinion and i'm just laying it out there as an option. no matter how much you guys flame me about stuff, i still have pride. i have pride about my knowledge about cars...it maybe not be a whole lot, but it's more than other 14 year old kids.. you may call me a "little conceited punk ass bitch" if you would lilke...i wouldn't care. if you find any other 14 year old that could tell you the difference between s13redtops, s13blacktops, s14, and s15 sr20det's, please let me know.

thnx

ps 4stroke cycle: intake, compression, combustion, exhaust
am i right on this?? i could be wrong..


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## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

close. intake, compression, power, exhaust. altho combustion is relatively close to power. i congratulate you on that tho. now here's some info for you - compression ratio's - the higher the compression, ie. 11:1, the more the power the engine yields, however you are also in more danger of detonation. lower compression is better for an engine with any form of forced induction as it is less likely to develop detonation. detonation is also more likely with more power. that is why you see the SR20's with compression ratio's of about 8.5:1 or 8.8:1 depending the vehicle the engine is going into, and then you see honda's and things with compression ratio's of like 10.5:1. anything else you want to know, PM me. this goes for anyone, i'll do whatever i can to help you even it means me researching something. cars are my life, i don't mind spending time looking for things.


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## bizzy b (Apr 13, 2003)

hey vsp3c: all we ask is that you simply give out information your sure about. don't offer opinions unless you know both sides. and most of all, don't copy someone else's words. i know we all have to learn sometime, that's cool. hell, i thought i knew a lot about nissan's when i came here, but then i read threads like night's RB25 & stuff and learned a lot more. thing is, if i read a thread and i don't absolutely know the pro's and cons of something i either don't post at all or explain that i'm operating on limited knowledge. and if i got my info from someone else, i refer them to the place i got it.


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## bizzy b (Apr 13, 2003)

to canton: first off, street racing is THE STUPIDEST thing you can do with your car. if you keep it up long enough you're bound to run into trouble. whether that means wrecking your car, losing it to the police, killing yourself or, even worse, some innocent bystander, its just dumb. to answer your question, though, either is a good choice. i'd go with the KA24DET just cause the torque will make a better daily driver and its the cheapest option. next best value would be the RB25DET. mad power, mad potential. if you think this is not plausible, too heavy, or too much work just check out the first thread in the S13 section. the only reason its behind the KA24 IMO is that its a bit more expensive, but so is the SR20. don't get me wrong. the SR20 is a good engine and a good deal. its just that the other two will net you more power given the same price.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

bizzy b said:


> *hey vsp3c: all we ask is that you simply give out information your sure about. don't offer opinions unless you know both sides. and most of all, don't copy someone else's words. i know we all have to learn sometime, that's cool. hell, i thought i knew a lot about nissan's when i came here, but then i read threads like night's RB25 & stuff and learned a lot more. thing is, if i read a thread and i don't absolutely know the pro's and cons of something i either don't post at all or explain that i'm operating on limited knowledge. and if i got my info from someone else, i refer them to the place i got it. *


thnx for the advice. i'll be sure to take it and apply it


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