# no spark at all. where else to look?



## joshcanfield (Nov 24, 2013)

Hello, 

I have a 2003 Nissan Murano. My wife was driving at work one day and shut the car off for 15 mins to deliver a pizza. once she got back to her car, the car would not start. 

at first i checked for gas, blown fuses, battery, ect the usual simple things.

the car had died cause my wife tried to start the car over and over again before I got there. so I hooked the jumper cables up and tried to start the car. car started to turn over but would not start. I borrowed a code reader and got codes for; Camshaft Position 'A' Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance Bank 2, Crankshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Malfunction, Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Malfunction bank 2, intake valve timing control bank 2. 

I have no spark at the plugs, there is power to the coils. so I bought the new sensors. both cam sensors and the crank shaft sensor. I also replaced the ecm relay. 

I still have no spark and the engine continually turns over and over. so any suggestions I don't know where to look next.

I have tried to do as much research as I can I am stumped


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

Even though I know practically nothing about this particular engine/vehicle combination, this almost screams broken timing belt to me.
A) No spark
B) all those codes related to the cams
C) No start
D) Shut it off, then it magically wouldn't start. That's the best time for a timing chain / belt to break. The last thing an engine does when you shut it off is spin backwards for a fraction of a revolution as that last piston comes up on the compression stroke then bounces back down off it.

If it was me, I'd pull the plugs and run a compression check next. After that, take off the valve covers, crank over the engine briefly and watch to see if either of the camshafts are turning. At least that'll rule out a broken timing chain/belt.
Is that engine a non-interference type? I dunno...beyond my scope. If it's the interference type, you're gonna be in for a world of hurt in the wallet.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

Muranos don't have timing belts; they have three timing chains (one primary chain that connects the crank to the cams and also turns the water pump....and two secondary chains, each one connecting a pair of cams on one bank of the engine). They usually don't break, especially without any warning (of course anything is possible). Cam position and crank position sensors do fail pretty frequently on the VQ engines and in those cases, be sure to replace them with genuine Nissan sensors, not aftermarket parts. It's going to be hard to diagnose the problem unless you have access to a scantool to view datastream information.You also might want to pull a couple of spark plugs to see if they are flooded. A compression test would confirm the remote chance that a chain has jumped or broke, but it would be a real pain to do in a Murano. You could also have a wiring issue.


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## joshcanfield (Nov 24, 2013)

jdg... I have thought about it being a timing chain issue because it was strange to me that all of a sudden both cams and crank sensors are "bad" via the engine check light codes. My wife has a horrid habbit of never checking anything in her car. she has ran dry on oil several times.unless i drive her car I would never know there was an issue because she does not tell my if anything is acting weird.

smj999smj... I do not own an expensive scan tool nor have I ever done a compression test on anything newer than my 82 elcamino.

so I guess I am at my limit to do tests at my house. i have a mechanic that owes me a couple houndred. i guess Ill see if he can do anything else with it.

thanks guys


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## Outkast (Jan 29, 2006)

Cam sensors are very common as well as timing tensioner guide failure. If the engine has sounded like a supercharger then the guides are worn. Once they get far enough out of phase it will cause really rough idle and ultimately the engine will cut off


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

joshcanfield said:


> jdg... I have thought about it being a timing chain issue because it was strange to me that all of a sudden both cams and crank sensors are "bad" via the engine check light codes. My wife has a horrid habbit of never checking anything in her car. she has ran dry on oil several times.unless i drive her car I would never know there was an issue because she does not tell my if anything is acting weird.


Well, my thought process was one of the timing belt breaking (which I now know the Murano doesn't have belts) and the computer getting all stupid thinking that because everything else may have been turning except the cams, that the computer basically "fell back" and assumed those particular sensors went belly up all at the same time...'cause the computer doesn't know any better.
But as smj999smj said, Murano has chains, and I don't really see those breaking.

Don't need an expensive scan tool, just a plain old one, borrow one, rent one, whatever. Compression test on new vehicle isn't any different than a compression test on the older ones. Pull the fuel pump fuse (just in case it does end up wanting to fire up), pull the spark plugs, block the gas pedal down, put a charger on the battery, and do the compression check like back in the old days. If there's a problem with the cams, chains, sprockets, etc., a compression test will show multiple cylinders with problems. If the numbers come out decently close on all the cylinders, you can almost 100% rule out a chain/sprocket/cam issue.


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