# air fuel ratio gauge



## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

so I tried to hook it up on my Z31 and basically it shows nothing at all- I changed the oxygen sensor and still nothing. It worked in my nx and I hooked it up with the intention that it could help me solve my hard starting mystery but it just seems to be reading really really lean. How come my buddy with a z32 has the same oxygen sensor and his works just fine- are our oxygen sensors high voltage or anything? I didnt think they were- they are only three wires- of course I am new to this car and am waiting for the fsm and am really kinda ignorant with it still. I have it hooked up to the white wire and I have checked my power and ground, both are fine.


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## extech (Mar 17, 2004)

*air fuel guage*

don't know for sure about the nx but most 02 sensors now are heated, thats why you see three wires, on 12v one ground and one voltage feed to the ECU


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> so I tried to hook it up on my Z31 and basically it shows nothing at all- I changed the oxygen sensor and still nothing. It worked in my nx and I hooked it up with the intention that it could help me solve my hard starting mystery but it just seems to be reading really really lean. How come my buddy with a z32 has the same oxygen sensor and his works just fine- are our oxygen sensors high voltage or anything? I didnt think they were- they are only three wires- of course I am new to this car and am waiting for the fsm and am really kinda ignorant with it still. I have it hooked up to the white wire and I have checked my power and ground, both are fine.


Unless its a 5 wire wideband, then its uselss, throw it away.

Its because you have an old school zirconia 02 sensor. Btw those types of meters are useless, they only tell you if you are at open loop.

Mike


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

i just replaced it with a new bosch one two days ago though! I know those gauges arent accurate- but its better then going blind isnt it?


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> i just replaced it with a new bosch one two days ago though! I know those gauges arent accurate- but its better then going blind isnt it?


Not really. Your still blind ya just feel beter about it.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

se-r-57 said:


> Not really. Your still blind ya just feel beter about it.


I'd rather have my A/F guage than not have it. It at least lets me know if I'm running rich at WOT , which is all I really care about. Running lean at WOT is an engine disaster waiting to happen , especially at 13 pounds of boost like I run. If you guys want to get all technical about it , that's fine , I've got my sensor and I won't trade it for anything.  

As far as it being hooked up properly , on Zs there's really only one way to do it. The O2 sensor wire itself is a thick shielded cable , the thinner wires are the heater wires.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

No shit- thats exactly how I feel- here is what Im asking though balliztic- why isnt mine reading with a new 02 sensor? should I hook it up to the car side of the plug- I have it soldered to the white wire from the oxygen sensor and it kinda reads lean at idle- I know thats not right and i know the the gauge works damnit b/c I just had it hooked up in my nx so I could tune my afc when I was running nitrous- remember about my fuel pressure problem? Do you think that I could have that little amount of pressure that the car just would run totally lean like that? I mean- when Im driving the thing doesnt even read at all!


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> No shit- thats exactly how I feel- here is what Im asking though balliztic- why isnt mine reading with a new 02 sensor? should I hook it up to the car side of the plug- I have it soldered to the white wire from the oxygen sensor and it kinda reads lean at idle- I know thats not right and i know the the gauge works damnit b/c I just had it hooked up in my nx so I could tune my afc when I was running nitrous- remember about my fuel pressure problem? Do you think that I could have that little amount of pressure that the car just would run totally lean like that? I mean- when Im driving the thing doesnt even read at all!


When you pull the wire cover off the O2 sensor plugin , there should be 3 wires in there. The really thick gray wire is the O2 lead to the ECU itself. The other 2 are the heater wires. The thick gray wire has the outer covering , a layer of coiled suppression wire(This wire is "hardened" against external signal sources , it's easy to interfere with the 1 volt the O2 sensor puts out) another inner covering and then the O2 wire itself. To clear up any confusion , I pulled the covering off that part of the O2 wire that runs up by the throttle body inlet bend on its way over to the passenger side of the firewall.
From what I know about the Z31s ECU , it completely shuts off the fuel injectors when you are decelerating in gear , so you won't get a reading there at all. All other times , you should see at least the last LED light up at idle. Cruise (part throttle) , the LEDs should light up in a sweep back and forth from rich to lean , but I've noticed it doesn't sweep the entire dial , just about from the first 4 to the last 4. If yours isn't sweeping at ALL , you probably just missed a connection somewhere. A/F guages in particular are very sensitive to the connection , since there is generally less than 1 volt involved .


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

yeah man- it works and at idle it reads just the one led, once I hit the brakes or turn the headlights on though it goes blank- and the wire I have it hooked up to is the white wire that is run to the gray wire in the connection- Ive gone through and checked all my connections and everything is good though. Im just worried that I might be running too lean when the car is driving- the fact that it doesnt read is what confuses me, b/c this car eats gas like crazy it seems- maybe thats b/c Im used to a 4 cylinder though


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> yeah man- it works and at idle it reads just the one led, once I hit the brakes or turn the headlights on though it goes blank- and the wire I have it hooked up to is the white wire that is run to the gray wire in the connection- Ive gone through and checked all my connections and everything is good though. Im just worried that I might be running too lean when the car is driving- the fact that it doesnt read is what confuses me, b/c this car eats gas like crazy it seems- maybe thats b/c Im used to a 4 cylinder though


If you like , just contact me on AIM and we can sort it out there.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I'd rather have my A/F guage than not have it. It at least lets me know if I'm running rich at WOT , which is all I really care about. Running lean at WOT is an engine disaster waiting to happen , especially at 13 pounds of boost like I run. If you guys want to get all technical about it , that's fine , I've got my sensor and I won't trade it for anything.
> 
> As far as it being hooked up properly , on Zs there's really only one way to do it. The O2 sensor wire itself is a thick shielded cable , the thinner wires are the heater wires.


Nope by the time it reads lean at WOT, its leaner than 14.7 which is adious engine if its turbo or even NA if you keep your foot in it.

Those gauges are worse than useless.

Mike


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> Nope by the time it reads lean at WOT, its leaner than 14.7 which is adious engine if its turbo or even NA if you keep your foot in it.
> 
> Those gauges are worse than useless.
> 
> Mike


I beg to differ. The 2 previous cars I had this guage installed in , it was quite accurate of informing me of a lean misfire at WOT on one , and a post-MAF leak on the other. Saved both engines from certain disaster thanks to that guage , so again , I won't trade it for anything. If I would not have had that guage , both engines would have gone up in smoke. Best $60 I ever spent , no matter what you say.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I beg to differ. The 2 previous cars I had this guage installed in , it was quite accurate of informing me of a lean misfire at WOT on one , and a post-MAF leak on the other. Saved both engines from certain disaster thanks to that guage , so again , I won't trade it for anything. If I would not have had that guage , both engines would have gone up in smoke. Best $60 I ever spent , no matter what you say.


It will indicate lean as leaner than 14.5:1. Its useless as a tuning tool.

Mike


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> It will indicate lean as leaner than 14.5:1. Its useless as a tuning tool.
> 
> Mike



Yes , it is useless as an accurate tuning tool , but that's not what I need it for. Currently I'm in the very low tuning stages , so I'm just using it to let me know if something is wrong. I actually don't consider O2 readings to be any sort of accurate. I plan on doing it the way other tuners do it and tune for no knock. I'm currently looking for a diagnostic type tool that hooks into the ECU and can tell me such things as timing advance , knock count , head temperature , using all the sensors the car already has. Both O2 and EGT readings are on the bottom of my list as far as accurate tuning methods go.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

I prefer tuning by seat of pants-- who cares if youre detenating!


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

detonation oops- im stupid


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> I prefer tuning by seat of pants-- who cares if youre detenating!


Your pistons will care. They generally respond to too much detonation by melting.  Detonation usually means you are running too lean.


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Yes , it is useless as an accurate tuning tool , but that's not what I need it for. Currently I'm in the very low tuning stages , so I'm just using it to let me know if something is wrong. I actually don't consider O2 readings to be any sort of accurate. I plan on doing it the way other tuners do it and tune for no knock. I'm currently looking for a diagnostic type tool that hooks into the ECU and can tell me such things as timing advance , knock count , head temperature , using all the sensors the car already has. Both O2 and EGT readings are on the bottom of my list as far as accurate tuning methods go.


Well crap guess I've been doin it wrong all these years. Guess I'll throw out the wideband,consult and the nprobe and go back to the ass dyno.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

I was just joking about the seat of your pants thing Balliztic................................................................. Check it out. In my nx- I have leaking injectors due to using my afc- IF I DIDNT HAVE AN AIR FUEL RATIO GAUGE MY CAR WOULD BE BOGGING OUT B/C I WOULD NOT KNOW HOW TO ADJUST IT PROPERLY- THE SHIT WORKS- ENOUGH SAID- IT IS TOTALLY IGNORANT TO SAY THAT THEY DONT WORK AND ARE A WASTE OF TIME- YOU ARE SERIOUSLY A JACKASS IF YOU THINK THAT. Yes they arent super duper accurate, but when I cracked an exhaust valve using nitrous with my other car I couldnt blame it on anything else but myself- know why? I read the air fuel ratio gauge and I knew I was running too lean, but I still did it anyways- I know I was in the wrong b/c of that instrument- if I didnt have it, Id be one of the ignorant assholes that claims that nitrous will blow your whole motor up ( SINCE NITROUS DOESNT BLOW UP MOTORS- STUPID PEOPLE USING NITROUS INCORRECTLY BLOW UP MOTORS "case in point............me) Trust me- if you had half the real tuning experience you think you have, then youd know. You cant know everything by just messing with one car and street racing a few people with you bullshit intake that you claim makes 20 hp but really only makes 3 hp. Even the autometer book claims it isnt accurate! BUT ID RATHER HAVE IT THEN BE SORRY! "Ignorance is bliss" and everyone who thinks that not having an air fuel ratio gauge when YOU HAVE A WAY to tune your fuel map is a stupid idea is a real ignorant dumbshit............Thank You and Good Night


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

se-r-57 said:


> Well crap guess I've been doin it wrong all these years. Guess I'll throw out the wideband,consult and the nprobe and go back to the ass dyno.


I'd rather use the cars computer to tell me whats going on.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> I was just joking about the seat of your pants thing Balliztic................................................................. Check it out. In my nx- I have leaking injectors due to using my afc- IF I DIDNT HAVE AN AIR FUEL RATIO GAUGE MY CAR WOULD BE BOGGING OUT B/C I WOULD NOT KNOW HOW TO ADJUST IT PROPERLY- THE SHIT WORKS- ENOUGH SAID- IT IS TOTALLY IGNORANT TO SAY THAT THEY DONT WORK AND ARE A WASTE OF TIME- YOU ARE SERIOUSLY A JACKASS IF YOU THINK THAT. Yes they arent super duper accurate, but when I cracked an exhaust valve using nitrous with my other car I couldnt blame it on anything else but myself- know why? I read the air fuel ratio gauge and I knew I was running too lean, but I still did it anyways- I know I was in the wrong b/c of that instrument- if I didnt have it, Id be one of the ignorant assholes that claims that nitrous will blow your whole motor up ( SINCE NITROUS DOESNT BLOW UP MOTORS- STUPID PEOPLE USING NITROUS INCORRECTLY BLOW UP MOTORS "case in point............me) Trust me- if you had half the real tuning experience you think you have, then youd know. You cant know everything by just messing with one car and street racing a few people with you bullshit intake that you claim makes 20 hp but really only makes 3 hp. Even the autometer book claims it isnt accurate! BUT ID RATHER HAVE IT THEN BE SORRY! "Ignorance is bliss" and everyone who thinks that not having an air fuel ratio gauge when YOU HAVE A WAY to tune your fuel map is a stupid idea is a real ignorant dumbshit............Thank You and Good Night


Yes , it works. Exactly. It's good enough for what I need it for. But as a high level tuning tool , I could think of better things.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

exactly Eric- If you can utilize the cars computer to your advantage no matter how little it may be then why not use it to your advantage. On that note I think this post should be over.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> I was just joking about the seat of your pants thing Balliztic................................................................. Check it out. In my nx- I have leaking injectors due to using my afc- IF I DIDNT HAVE AN AIR FUEL RATIO GAUGE MY CAR WOULD BE BOGGING OUT B/C I WOULD NOT KNOW HOW TO ADJUST IT PROPERLY- THE SHIT WORKS- ENOUGH SAID- IT IS TOTALLY IGNORANT TO SAY THAT THEY DONT WORK AND ARE A WASTE OF TIME- YOU ARE SERIOUSLY A JACKASS IF YOU THINK THAT. Yes they arent super duper accurate, but when I cracked an exhaust valve using nitrous with my other car I couldnt blame it on anything else but myself- know why? I read the air fuel ratio gauge and I knew I was running too lean, but I still did it anyways- I know I was in the wrong b/c of that instrument- if I didnt have it, Id be one of the ignorant assholes that claims that nitrous will blow your whole motor up ( SINCE NITROUS DOESNT BLOW UP MOTORS- STUPID PEOPLE USING NITROUS INCORRECTLY BLOW UP MOTORS "case in point............me) Trust me- if you had half the real tuning experience you think you have, then youd know. You cant know everything by just messing with one car and street racing a few people with you bullshit intake that you claim makes 20 hp but really only makes 3 hp. Even the autometer book claims it isnt accurate! BUT ID RATHER HAVE IT THEN BE SORRY! "Ignorance is bliss" and everyone who thinks that not having an air fuel ratio gauge when YOU HAVE A WAY to tune your fuel map is a stupid idea is a real ignorant dumbshit............Thank You and Good Night


Who are you ranting about?

Mike


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I'd rather use the cars computer to tell me whats going on.


What do ya think the consult and nprobe read? www.300degree.com/electronics/nprobe


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

se-r-57 said:


> What do ya think the consult and nprobe read? www.300degree.com/electronics/nprobe


That's nice. Too bad it doesn't work on cars before 1990 , WHICH ARE THE CARS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE.  
Unless you have something useful to contribute to this conversation , go back to tuning your FWD. :loser:


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Seriously, why are you in this forum? Dreaming? When I need to know stuff about my nx I go to the b-13 forum-Hey and I may be talking about about you when I rant............. do you match the description I gave? You just may, Gay. HAHAHA-seriously-Im sure that half the people that replied to this thread havent even touched a tuning device like an afc and just have an air fuel ratio gauge b/c it looks cool in your car. WHAT ABOUT MSD PART NUMBER 8933- THE RICH LEAN INDICATOR THAT ONLY INDICATES RICH OR LEAN, BUT IS STILL NOT COMPLETELY ACCURATE? IT USES ITS OWN OXYGEN SENSOR AND EVERYTHING- ITS STILL NOT ACCURATE, BUT EVERYONE SEEMS TO USE THAT TO TUNE- WHAT, JUST B/C GUYS RUNNING 9 SECOND QUARTER MILES WITH CHEVYS AND FORDS USE IT MEANS THAT GUYS WITH IMPORTS CANT AND THAT THEY JUST WONT WORK ON OUR JAPANESE CARS- That is seriously stupid- you are stupid and I feel stupid even being in this kind of ignorant argument. I may not know everything, but to say that having an air fuel ratio gauge is WORSE then actually not having one is ridiculous! Absolutely Ridiculous....Seriously. I may go on and rant, but Balliztic said it best" Yes, it works. Exactly- it is good enough for what I need it for, but I could think of better things to use.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Hey- I have to apologize about being so mean with my threads about the stupid air fuel ratio gauge, But seriously Mike how can you say that the air fuel ratio gauge is worthless- Im well aware of the fact that you have probably forgotten more then most of us know about Nissans in general. It does work-it is pointless on a car that you dont have anything to tune with, but the smart ones of us do have some way of tuning the fuel map- or else we wouldnt be in this discussion ranting like madmen.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> Hey- I have to apologize about being so mean with my threads about the stupid air fuel ratio gauge, But seriously Mike how can you say that the air fuel ratio gauge is worthless- Im well aware of the fact that you have probably forgotten more then most of us know about Nissans in general. It does work-it is pointless on a car that you dont have anything to tune with, but the smart ones of us do have some way of tuning the fuel map- or else we wouldnt be in this discussion ranting like madmen.


what the hell are you calling me gay?!

Your type of meter is useless for tuning. It is only accurate from 14.5-14.7:1 Its basicaly a closed loop function indicator only. It doesnt register lean until leaner than 14.5:1 so its not even that good of a safety device either. Harm will come to your engine at WOT way before 14.5:1. But if you think you know more about tuning than me, enought to flame the shit out of me, go ahead and use it don 't come back crying when you blow your motor or when you get beat because your car is slow. I promise I won't make fun of you for not listening.

And why should I not be on this forum? I have a Z and it makes way more power than yours and I tuned it with a Horiba wide band!

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> That's nice. Too bad it doesn't work on cars before 1990 , WHICH ARE THE CARS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE.
> Unless you have something useful to contribute to this conversation , go back to tuning your FWD. :loser:


James forgot more about tuning than you know, watch who you are smack talking to.

Mike


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> what the hell are you calling me gay?!
> 
> Your type of meter is useless for tuning. It is only accurate from 14.5-14.7:1 Its basicaly a closed loop function indicator only. It doesnt register lean until leaner than 14.5:1 so its not even that good of a safety device either. Harm will come to your engine at WOT way before 14.5:1. But if you think you know more about tuning than me, enought to flame the shit out of me, go ahead and use it don 't come back crying when you blow your motor or when you get beat because your car is slow. I promise I won't make fun of you for not listening.
> 
> ...


Well good for you.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> James forgot more about tuning than you know, watch who you are smack talking to.
> 
> Mike


 Somebody that doesn't know what year of car we are dealing with and the tuning tools that CANNOT be used on it is somebody I will NEVER go to for advice. Especially not when they drive a Sentra. :loser:


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Somebody that doesn't know what year of car we are dealing with and the tuning tools that CANNOT be used on it is somebody I will NEVER go to for advice. Especially not when they drive a Sentra. :loser:


Plese tell me how you can "use the cars computer" to tune a car? The O2 sensor only tells the car if its running a stoicmetric at part throttle and light cruise. You can't run that sort of mixture ratio under load, its way too lean so unless you are trying to tune for idle, part throttle and cruise, its all useless.

Its not even that good as a safety monitor. Let's say you are running your car hard, lets say that you are running a mixture ratio of 13.8:1 due to a bad MAF. Your meter will still be reading rich giving you a false feeling of security, then your engine blows if you can't hear the detonation and back off. I have seen this happen with several people with turbo cars and one guy with an NA car. If you are running leaner than 14.7:1 at WOT where the gauge will read lean, you will know its way too lean before the gauge will tell you, the car will lack all sorts of power, be detonating and generaly run like crap under load.

I drive a Sentra  

Mike


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> I drive a Sentra
> 
> Mike


Not just 1 but 2 sentra's. 1 for playing with and the other as a track car. :thumbup:


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Yeah, but Eric .....dude- that guy with the Sentra owns sport compact cars project Z and probably knows more then you and I combined. He is same Mike Kojima that is quoted at least once in the Stillen catalog. He is also a Sport Compact Car plus Turbo Magazine contributing editor. I stated all my facts and I (like you) dont care what anyone says- THAT THING WORKS. I finally found my problem with it also- remember how it was reading lean all the time- Yeah, when my dipshit friend with the z32 told me to hook to the white wire- on our cars it is the black wire. Or like you told me before and I didnt listen........just go to the insulated wire- so sure enough- I checked it out and what do you know- My dude Eric was correct! So I soldered it last night and now Im driving in the land of people with functional air fuel ratio gauges later....


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> Yeah, but Eric .....dude- that guy with the Sentra owns sport compact cars project Z and probably knows more then you and I combined. He is same Mike Kojima that is quoted at least once in the Stillen catalog. He is also a Sport Compact Car plus Turbo Magazine contributing editor. I stated all my facts and I (like you) dont care what anyone says- THAT THING WORKS. I finally found my problem with it also- remember how it was reading lean all the time- Yeah, when my dipshit friend with the z32 told me to hook to the white wire- on our cars it is the black wire. Or like you told me before and I didnt listen........just go to the insulated wire- so sure enough- I checked it out and what do you know- My dude Eric was correct! So I soldered it last night and now Im driving in the land of people with functional air fuel ratio gauges later....


Yeah its ok as long as you understand the limitations of the meter and don't expect too much of it. Most importantly, don't try to tune with it.

Mike


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Hey Mike, you guys tuned the Z with a horiba wide band? I dont know that much about it but is that the system that uses its own stand alone 02 sensor? What do they run? What do you think would be good to use for just basic tuning-not to argue the point (which you do have a good point about faulty maf sensors and everything- and being that the car is an 87) but for what it costs and the basic stuff the car has or is having done to it what would be cost worthy and effective? <--------longest sentence on the forum(Im so proud


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> Hey Mike, you guys tuned the Z with a horiba wide band? I dont know that much about it but is that the system that uses its own stand alone 02 sensor? What do they run? What do you think would be good to use for just basic tuning-not to argue the point (which you do have a good point about faulty maf sensors and everything- and being that the car is an 87) but for what it costs and the basic stuff the car has or is having done to it what would be cost worthy and effective? <--------longest sentence on the forum(Im so proud


Yeah the Horiba is a stand alone reference type a/f ratio meter, the type OEM's use to tune cars.

In my opion, the best cheapest way to go is the AEM O2 sensor with the signal conditioning box that you can attach a multimeter to and read the 0-5 volt output signal. It uses a Bosch LM-4 wideband o2 sensor.

THen you can check the voltage vs mixture ratio tables for the sensor which is published in many places. That way you have a very accurat way of measuing A/F ratio and not spend much money at all. This costs less than $200. For $350-500 a number of companies have meters that use the LM-4 and give you the A/F ratio with a digital display. Some even have outputs for data logging.

Mike


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> Hey Mike, you guys tuned the Z with a horiba wide band? I dont know that much about it but is that the system that uses its own stand alone 02 sensor? What do they run? What do you think would be good to use for just basic tuning-not to argue the point (which you do have a good point about faulty maf sensors and everything- and being that the car is an 87) but for what it costs and the basic stuff the car has or is having done to it what would be cost worthy and effective? <--------longest sentence on the forum(Im so proud


Here you go and why Mike knows what he knows. 
Read up boys!
http://www.aempower.com/product_ems.asp


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Yeah, I dont think I want to get as involved as the latter. I will check out the aem system while im here at work.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> Plese tell me how you can "use the cars computer" to tune a car? The O2 sensor only tells the car if its running a stoicmetric at part throttle and light cruise. You can't run that sort of mixture ratio under load, its way too lean so unless you are trying to tune for idle, part throttle and cruise, its all useless.
> 
> Its not even that good as a safety monitor. Let's say you are running your car hard, lets say that you are running a mixture ratio of 13.8:1 due to a bad MAF. Your meter will still be reading rich giving you a false feeling of security, then your engine blows if you can't hear the detonation and back off. I have seen this happen with several people with turbo cars and one guy with an NA car. If you are running leaner than 14.7:1 at WOT where the gauge will read lean, you will know its way too lean before the gauge will tell you, the car will lack all sorts of power, be detonating and generaly run like crap under load.
> 
> ...


What makes you think I'd be using the cars O2 sensor to tune? I already specified elsewhere in the thread that that would probably be the last method of tuning I would use. For a guy that knows so much , you sure don't pay attention.  

The cars ECU imparts other , more useful information such as knock count and head temperature. Stuff I plan on using. You use your methods , I'll use mine. 
Haven't seen much from SCC's project Z , what happened , did you blow it up? Seems like SCCs guys do a lot of that. I subscribe to that magazine for the general purpose of knowing what NOT to do when I'm modding my car.


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> What makes you think I'd be using the cars O2 sensor to tune? I already specified elsewhere in the thread that that would probably be the last method of tuning I would use. For a guy that knows so much , you sure don't pay attention.
> 
> The cars ECU imparts other , more useful information such as knock count and head temperature. Stuff I plan on using. You use your methods , I'll use mine.
> Haven't seen much from SCC's project Z , what happened , did you blow it up? Seems like SCCs guys do a lot of that. I subscribe to that magazine for the general purpose of knowing what NOT to do when I'm modding my car.


Dude relax! Mikes cars have never blow up, period!! Why do you think they don't blow up? It's because when the does work on his cars it's the right way or no way, do you understand? He is very conservative in what he does and makes sure he does all the research needed before he works on his cars. If you didn't know Mike has a engineering back ground (degree) and mechnical back ground as well etc.

You need to consider the source first before you open your mouth. If you still don't believe him I would urge you to get in contact with a real tuner and ask if your A/F gauge is safe for tuning. I'll bet you they will say no and why all good tuners use a wide band O2. 

So please don't hate because Mike has years of experiance in building and tuning cars, how about you? 

Play nice and learn, not many people have the opportunity talk to Mike and learn, like you.


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Somebody that doesn't know what year of car we are dealing with and the tuning tools that CANNOT be used on it is somebody I will NEVER go to for advice. Especially not when they drive a Sentra. :loser:


Any time ya wanna come play I'll get one of the lowly sentras out. (or a NX2K if you prefer) Never been beat by a Z-31 mabe this will be a first. Thanks for the props mike. See ya in May. I think I'm done with this guy he's smarter than all of us :givebeer: Make that a shiner :thumbup:


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Spongerider said:


> Dude relax! Mikes cars have never blow up, period!! Why do you think they don't blow up? It's because when the does work on his cars it's the right way or no way, do you understand? He is very conservative in what he does and makes sure he does all the research needed before he works on his cars. If you didn't know Mike has a engineering back ground (degree) and mechnical back ground as well etc.
> 
> You need to consider the source first before you open your mouth. If you still don't believe him I would urge you to get in contact with a real tuner and ask if your A/F gauge is safe for tuning. I'll bet you they will say no and why all good tuners use a wide band O2.
> 
> ...


You guys and harping on the 02 thing.  I'm sensing a decided lack of brain cells in this particular thread. As far as having anything to learn from anybody , it won't be from anybody here. The day a Sentra beats me it will be a very sad day indeed. Needless to say , unless your Sentra runs 11s , not gonna happen.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Spongerider said:


> So please don't hate because Mike has years of experiance in building and tuning cars, how about you?


I've got over 14 years tuning all makes of cars under my belt. Making horsepower out of various Fords and Chevys in the late 80s , started with imports in 95 , a bit before the tuner craze was official. Sorry to disappoint you , but I'm not your typical n00b.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I've got over 14 years tuning all makes of cars under my belt. Making horsepower out of various Fords and Chevys in the late 80s , started with imports in 95 , a bit before the tuner craze was official. Sorry to disappoint you , but I'm not your typical n00b.


I have never claimed to know much, its just what other people think of me. I know a little bit but I am always up for learning more. Since when has any of SCC's project cars blown up? A couple of them have gotten stolen but none have blown up due to mistakes. If you read the SCC articles by Shiv Pathack or Dave Coleman, you really might learn something on how to build cars. Any time you want to come out and play, bring that Z down . If you are really serious bring some money.

Got some lowly Sentras that might show you what lacking brain cells can do  .

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> What makes you think I'd be using the cars O2 sensor to tune? I already specified elsewhere in the thread that that would probably be the last method of tuning I would use. For a guy that knows so much , you sure don't pay attention.
> 
> The cars ECU imparts other , more useful information such as knock count and head temperature. Stuff I plan on using. You use your methods , I'll use mine.
> Haven't seen much from SCC's project Z , what happened , did you blow it up? Seems like SCCs guys do a lot of that. I subscribe to that magazine for the general purpose of knowing what NOT to do when I'm modding my car.


Pre 90's cars like you pointed out that this thread is about don't have knock count, Knock sensors of that era on Nissans were simple analog bandpass type filtering devices for pizeo sensors. They don't have knock records or long or short term trims to the timing tables for knock.

Nissans don't have a cyilinder head temp sensor, the sensor in the cylinder head reads coolant temp. Neither of these has much direct value for tuning. A wideband A/F Meter is essential for doing fuel map development, to deny that is to deny practicaly knowing anything about tuning a modern efi car.

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> You guys and harping on the 02 thing.  I'm sensing a decided lack of brain cells in this particular thread. As far as having anything to learn from anybody , it won't be from anybody here. The day a Sentra beats me it will be a very sad day indeed. Needless to say , unless your Sentra runs 11s , not gonna happen.


Where are you at? Want to race? Want to put some green on it to make it interesting  ? Drag race or road race? Any contest of speed I am up for. My only thing is that it won't be on the street, it has to be at a track. I don't streetrace.

Mike


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> I know a little bit but I am always up for learning more. Since when has any of SCC's project cars blown up? A couple of them have gotten stolen but none have blown up due to mistakes.


David Coleman's an ass who doesn't know an CA intake from his asshole. I've read his articles and marveled at the stupidity. A guy who can't get a 270 Hp wannabe S14 into the 12s without cheating by using altitude and temperature corrections has got to be some kind of idiot. 

As far as blowing things up , you don't read SCC much , do you.  Why , just last month they blew up some Honda just because the dumbasses forgot to hook up a boost guage before they took it for a run after a turbo install. Like I said before , I read SCC so I can learn what NOT to do to my car when I mod it. :thumbdwn:


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> Where are you at? Want to race? Want to put some green on it to make it interesting  ? Drag race or road race? Any contest of speed I am up for. My only thing is that it won't be on the street, it has to be at a track. I don't streetrace.
> 
> Mike


I do street-race , but I'm just not stupid about it. Since I'll probably never meet you , any BSing we do here is all talk. I'll post a time slip when the track opens up in a couple weeks.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> David Coleman's an ass who doesn't know an CA intake from his asshole. I've read his articles and marveled at the stupidity. A guy who can't get a 270 Hp wannabe S14 into the 12s without cheating by using altitude and temperature corrections has got to be some kind of idiot.
> 
> As far as blowing things up , you don't read SCC much , do you.  Why , just last month they blew up some Honda just because the dumbasses forgot to hook up a boost guage before they took it for a run after a turbo install. Like I said before , I read SCC so I can learn what NOT to do to my car when I mod it. :thumbdwn:


Dave Coleman is very smart and his Silvia is very fast. His car is not built for max power. If you read his articles you would understand that his car is built for road racing with lagless throttle response, not brute power. You don't understand what his car is about. His car can pull over 1 g in a corner on street compound tires, you have no idea how hard that is. They had a battle of all the magazine editors at buttonwillow raceway and Dave slaughtered every single guy from every magazine.

If dave wanted to build a 500 hp drag racer you bet he could do it no problem.

The Honda was a feature car and they were wrtiting about what some guy did, it was not a project car that the editors were in charge of. Not a single project car has blown up yet. It might be possible because the limits are pushed but it has not happend yet. SCC doesnt BS like some of the other mags, if power seems low its because it is low. The dyno is not docotored and its corrected and conservative runs are picked, not cherry picked.

SCC is the most techincaly accurate and BS free of all the import performance magazines with the best tech articals. Obvisouly you don't read it.

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I do street-race , but I'm just not stupid about it. Since I'll probably never meet you , any BSing we do here is all talk. I'll post a time slip when the track opens up in a couple weeks.


Where do you live, I am up to the challange as long as you don't live half way accross the country. Lets race for soemthing interesting then like $2000 to make it worth while. I can put my money where my mouth is. Are you down?

No street racing BS, heads up at the track. I walk the talk, how about you? You started the insults, I have yet to insult you, just question your tuning methods. You seem more than willing to insult me, back it up. Any contest of speed, straights, turns, it doesnt matter. None of my cars are even built for drag racing but I am down. 

SERCA is having its national convention in may in california which has a track event and a time attack time trial, how about you come down for that? You can take on all sorts of lowly Sentra's there, or maybe the idiot Dave Coleman. Or you can take a shot at me there.

I am giving you a chance to school me on tuning. I am not a sore loser either. I am even at a handicap, a 2000cc FWD against a 3000cc FR. Put up or shut up.  

Mike


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Yeah, we should just close this thread- its a little out of hand guys I found the wire that the air fuel ratio gauge goes to.......thanks


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> Yeah, we should just close this thread- its a little out of hand guys I found the wire that the air fuel ratio gauge goes to.......thanks


I am not out of hand! Note, I have yet to insult anyone  . I don't belive in closing threads or overmoderating just because their is disagreement. Its just a friendly gentilemans race to prove a point, just with a little montary compensation to keep it interesting and worthwhile for both parties.

Mike


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> Dave Coleman is very smart and his Silvia is very fast. His car is not built for max power. If you read his articles you would understand that his car is built for road racing with lagless throttle response, not brute power. You don't understand what his car is about. His car can pull over 1 g in a corner on street compound tires, you have no idea how hard that is. They had a battle of all the magazine editors at buttonwillow raceway and Dave slaughtered every single guy from every magazine.
> 
> If dave wanted to build a 500 hp drag racer you bet he could do it no problem.
> 
> ...


I've had a running subscription for 3 years now. There are a few things of interest , but generally those guys are clueless. Same with all other tuner magazines as well , I'm not saying anything else is better. 
Yeah , I'd like to have a decent handling car and run up against David Coleman. I'd slaughter him , no question. Most of these guys from these magazines have no clue how to do anything but drive a desk and a computer , and from the editing I've seen , precious little of that. Oh , and maybe drive in a straight line , but Daves already shown me he can't do that very well either. That Silvia/240/whatever Dave has is a piece of crap , it's poorly built and even more poorly driven. I'd like to see him run on a track with some of the guys I know , and me. He'd get lapped , and laughed off the track. Sorry , magazine editors are not my car gods. John Shepherd , Dave Buschur , John Lingenfelter (RIP) and guys like them are my car gods not some guy who blathers about how how a rotary engines power rating should be changed. It's funny when Dave trys to sound smart , like a baboon trying to speak English.  

As for you , I'm sure you have a nice Sentra , but I'll never respect any sort of FWD as being anything but a family car. Tuned or not. I'm sure we'll meet up some day , but my car is not road course ready yet , it has a lot of things that need to be sorted out , as with any 19 year old sports car that wasn't cared for properly. Like I said , I'll be posting time slips when the track opens , and then you can talk all the smack you want.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

I wasnt just talking about about you Mike- I see your point though- I did atleast achieve the result I was looking for when I posted the thread though


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> I wasnt just talking about about you Mike- I see your point though- I did atleast achieve the result I was looking for when I posted the thread though


Glad to hear it works. :cheers:


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I've had a running subscription for 3 years now. There are a few things of interest , but generally those guys are clueless. Same with all other tuner magazines as well , I'm not saying anything else is better.
> Yeah , I'd like to have a decent handling car and run up against David Coleman. I'd slaughter him , no question. Most of these guys from these magazines have no clue how to do anything but drive a desk and a computer , and from the editing I've seen , precious little of that. Oh , and maybe drive in a straight line , but Daves already shown me he can't do that very well either. That Silvia/240/whatever Dave has is a piece of crap , it's poorly built and even more poorly driven. I'd like to see him run on a track with some of the guys I know , and me. He'd get lapped , and laughed off the track. Sorry , magazine editors are not my car gods. John Shepherd , Dave Buschur , John Lingenfelter (RIP) and guys like them are my car gods not some guy who blathers about how how a rotary engines power rating should be changed. It's funny when Dave trys to sound smart , like a baboon trying to speak English.
> 
> As for you , I'm sure you have a nice Sentra , but I'll never respect any sort of FWD as being anything but a family car. Tuned or not. I'm sure we'll meet up some day , but my car is not road course ready yet , it has a lot of things that need to be sorted out , as with any 19 year old sports car that wasn't cared for properly. Like I said , I'll be posting time slips when the track opens , and then you can talk all the smack you want.


Let me see, because you can't understand what Dave is talking about, makes him a babbon and you intellectualy superior? Not making fun of you just questioning your logic. Dave is actualy a degreed mechanical engineer who is paid by some OEM's like Mazda and Mitsubishi as a consultant on chassis calibration, etc. I guess the EVO VIII's handling sucks so you can blame Dave! Actualy my opinion is, like in the case of James, Dave has forgotten more knowlege of cars than you ever had. Of course this is purely subjective.

Lets put some objectivity into this argument. The thing about you is you can't back up your smack talk, I can with money. I am not posting timeslips, anyone can post a timeslip, but I'd like to take a crack at taking your money. I am telling you to put up or shut up, thats all. Maybe you might want to admit your are wrong about tuning cars using coolant temp and knock sensor trigger counts as your primary means to monitor the combustion process in your motor, that whole consept is a joke. If you don't belive me why don't you ask tell your gods John Shepard or Dave Busher about your tuning methods and tell them they are wrong!

John Shepard and Dave Bushar are gods, they are professional drag racers, a pretty specialized profession. As far as Coleman not knowing how to drive and you being able to spank him, I guess being a SCCA Pro Rally champion two out of three years and being third in the points the one other year means you cant drive. I guess Pro-Rally is such an easy form of driving that it requires absolutly no skill. I guess beating all of the invited magazine editors and all of the other magazine project cars by a wide margin means he can't drive or build another car either. Maybe the fact that I was an professional road racer and he can totaly outdrive me means he sucks as well. I guess you and your friends will be lapping him easily and lapping me even more. I guess a 2:05 second lap around Buttonwillow raceway is slow considering many racecars don't go that fast. I mean you must run in some really fast company you baller you! 

I guess you are really good at launching a powerful car with street radials and can out drag Dave as well. I would like to know how you can do better under the same condtions, please educate me. I would like to know how you can consider a car that can turn one G of lateral acceleration on regular street non soft compound tires lame. What can a Porshe 996, Corvette ZO6, Viper or any expensive sports car do with street tires, gee hummm... less than one G. 

Tell you what, Dave drives much better than me, you are a way better driver than him and he is an idiot and his car sucks right? Well I'll race you on a road course with my NA SE-R, my slowest car. Dave's Silvia can SMOKE this car with ease. Since my car sucks worse than Dave's car which according to you totaly sucks and I drive worse than him so I totaly suck, you shoud be able to school me right since you could outdrive him in the right car. As a warning, my slow car won the first Ultimate Street Car race, but that means nothing to you because your car must be totaly awsome. Road racing is about 70% driver and 30% car so even if your car is not quite the G machine, it might be fair right? Don't worry I'll take that chance.

Well the $2000 challange is for this as well! Can you walk your talk? Want to up the ante to make it worth your while? I can race you for more to cover your transportation expenses if you like. I mean you should be able to easily beat me right? You would like that cash lining your pocket. I am not saying I can beat you or talking smack but I am throwing down the glove, right in your face. In fact I can probably arrange for you to race Dave for the cash, I'll put it up for him even, but like I said, he is much faster than me and you have a much better chance of winning with me.

My Sentra is a ugly pile of crap, but I am willing to wager that it can beat your fine pedagreed Z31 in any contest of speed, turning, braking straight line, top end. If you wish to include drag racing, then I am going to use my turbo Sentra because NA is too much of a handicap going straight. If its road racing, then I'll even use my slow NA car to make it more intereseting. If Sentra's are too "low" for you and you need to race something you "respect" then I can bring out a Z, I'll even use one with less hp than the white car. Chose your destroyer. I don't need to beat my chest about it, I'll just put my money where my mouth is. Lets race like gentilemen. If you beat me like a man, you will find that I am a gratious loser and I will commend your effort and congratulate you as well as hand over the cash.

If you are not willing to put up, then please stop making pointless flame posts or I will assume you are a worthless troll. 

Mike


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

[email protected], before I say what I really want to say to you, let me argue on one of your posts. The Honda that they blew up in SCC was due to a faulty wastegate, which was a manufacturing defect (the manufacturer being Edelbrock, who provided the turbo kit), and not a mistake made by SCC. Granted, they didn't hook up the boost gauge like they should have to know that they were overboosting, but the fact is that the turbo kit they got was defective to begin with.

Its time you took Mike K.'s challenge. Let's see how your almighty a/f gauge-hooked Z does against Mike's N/A "POS FWD" Sentra. If you don't, you my friend are just an open-mouth blabberer with nothing useful to say, as is evident in pretty much all of your posts in this thread. I'll echo what someone said to you already, put up or shut up.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Harris said:


> [email protected], before I say what I really want to say to you, let me argue on one of your posts. The Honda that they blew up in SCC was due to a faulty wastegate, which was a manufacturing defect (the manufacturer being Edelbrock, who provided the turbo kit), and not a mistake made by SCC. Granted, they didn't hook up the boost gauge like they should have to know that they were overboosting, but the fact is that the turbo kit they got was defective to begin with.
> 
> Its time you took Mike K.'s challenge. Let's see how your almighty a/f gauge-hooked Z does against Mike's N/A "POS FWD" Sentra. If you don't, you my friend are just an open-mouth blabberer with nothing useful to say, as is evident in pretty much all of your posts in this thread. I'll echo what someone said to you already, put up or shut up.


Let me add that it was not a SCC project car but a feature car which was not built by any SCC editor. Belive it or not, the car was built and blown up by a Garrett engineer and it was actualy his personal car so even pro's mess up. He knew to install a boost gauge but was was earger to try the boost.

Let me add that this is a gentilemans friendly race with some money in it just to make it interesting and to give you some insentive.

Mike


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## JakeMonkey (Feb 3, 2004)

heh, you guys bitch too much.
fun to read though


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

You guy's have to admit this [email protected] is kinda interesting to listen to. He's not gonna take ya up on the challange Mike though I would love to be there if it happens.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

ditto, this one got funny real quick......this is better then the ga16de board- Im so glad I have a Z31 now! This board is fun................


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Oh my. The resident car "gurus" don't like me. Whatever will I do?  

What a bunch of lamers.

When the time comes , and my car is ready , it'll be put up or shut up for all of you. I will not , however , field an incomplete risky 18 year old Z car until its been gone through end to end. Suggesting and doing otherwise is just pure stupidity. 

At any rate , nice to know who exactly you guys think highly of.  I'll take my cues from people who reside in the real world , thanks. People who drive desks and pens for a living don't impress me. See ya.


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I'll take my cues from people who reside in the real world , thanks. People who drive desks and pens for a living don't impress me. See ya.



So you think Mike is talking out of his ass? Well, take the challenge then! Calling names, making excuses about your old Z and talking to people in your so called "real" world is not helping towards your credibility. Take your cues from people who reside in the "real" world and take on Mike's challenge on a *REAL WORLD* track. The only one driving/pushing anything is you with your keyboard proving how accurate an a/f-gauge is for tuning. Let's see how you good your tuning is on a track.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

I just thought that all the bickering is funny- Im on both sides of the air fuel ratio gauge thing- next time I will research something more before I start a thread as to not start any confrontations..........


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> I just thought that all the bickering is funny- Im on both sides of the air fuel ratio gauge thing- next time I will research something more before I start a thread as to not start any confrontations..........


You didn't start anything he did it him self. Your welcome anytime. :thumbup:


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Harris said:


> So you think Mike is talking out of his ass? Well, take the challenge then! Calling names, making excuses about your old Z and talking to people in your so called "real" world is not helping towards your credibility. Take your cues from people who reside in the "real" world and take on Mike's challenge on a *REAL WORLD* track. The only one driving/pushing anything is you with your keyboard proving how accurate an a/f-gauge is for tuning. Let's see how you good your tuning is on a track.


One thing I know for sure is that Mike is not gonna come all the way up here and race me even if I did throw money down. At this point it's all a bunch of BS. 
And you ALSO are apparently not reading the rest of thread as to how I feel about tuning with A/F. Maybe to establsh a baseline , certainly not for any accurate in-depth tuning. A/F is also varies from car to car , what works on one car will not work on another , there's too many variables at work such as engine wear.

Something your apparently not thinking about is that I have absolutely nothing to prove to a bunch of ricers. I've read some of the other threads in here , this place should really be ashamed of itself.

So yeah , MIKE , anytime you want to come up and race me. Bring either of your POS Sentras , it doesn't really matter. No money involved , lets just race like real men , and see if YOU are talking out your ass or not. 
If you beat me , I'll give you the respect you apparently deserve. If I beat you , rest assured I'll laugh you all the way back to where you came from. And beleive me , if me and my old POS Z31 beats you , you will never be allowed to forget it.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

HEY DAMNIT!

DON'T CALL Z31s POSES ASSHOLE


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

[email protected], if you don't think Mike will take a challenge, you're sorely mistaken. He'll probably trailer every car he owns up there so you can choose which car smokes you.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Something your apparently not thinking about is that I have absolutely nothing to prove to a bunch of ricers. I've read some of the other threads in here , this place should really be ashamed of itself.


Leave then, why are you here? Internet getting a little too small or something?


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

I'm with James, get your ass out of here if you don't like it. If you think we're a bunch of ricers, go play with your mullet-headed friends in your world of ignorance. Its people like you who hurt the integrity of this forum. Either you prove your findings or you're going to be branded a ricer that you sound to be right now. It's so ironic how you haven't proven a thing and continue calling us names and insulting those who have a *LOT* more knowledge than you.

You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to argue on a point where it is quite clear that *YOU* have been wrong all along. It's ok to admit being at fault. Your balls won't fall out of your sack.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

Harris said:


> It's ok to admit being at fault. Your balls won't fall out of your sack.



I think his balls are stapled to his sack with "i know everything, I shall never be wrong" staples, if he is proven wrong, he will permanently lose his balls. Not like he needs them, he's prolly really feminine, notice how he's always talking about those manly muscle cars. LOL


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

He wasn't calling "THE" Z31 a POS. His has issues he is working out with his car since he just got it recently and he was refering to his car. If you want though I am game for a nice (no money involved) road race. But thats just because I love road racing and autocross and my Z is up to it. Well in June when I finish the very last of my chasis, suspension, and drive line work it will be better then ever but now it is in more then ready condition. 

Why don't you all just lay off eachother and be more loving because i am not feeling the LOVE here LOL. NO GAY JOKES!


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> He wasn't calling "THE" Z31 a POS. His has issues he is working out with his car since he just got it recently and he was refering to his car. If you want though I am game for a nice (no money involved) road race. But thats just because I love road racing and autocross and my Z is up to it. Well in June when I finish the very last of my chasis, suspension, and drive line work it will be better then ever but now it is in more then ready condition.
> 
> Why don't you all just lay off eachother and be more loving because i am not feeling the LOVE here LOL. NO GAY JOKES!



Hey I love you! I love Z31's. I would race you for free for the fun of it as well because you understand sportsmanship. However if someone wants to talk trash, then they had better back their smack up. I don't go around hating people and smaking people in the face, its like hey if you want to speak fighting words, then duke it out on the track. If you got hate then put some green on the line so it will hurt. Thats what I think.

I actualy want to build a Z31 because I can get around 450 whp out of one for very little money and it would be a fun and cheap project. Most people don't know this nasty little secret about the Z31.

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Oh my. The resident car "gurus" don't like me. Whatever will I do?
> 
> What a bunch of lamers.
> 
> ...


I never said I don't like you, I just said the way you tune a car is wrong and you have flawed logic. By the way, in addtion to driving desks and pens Dave and I happen to actualy race, yes real race cars that we actualy built at a professional level and we actualy win! Maybe you might be the guy racing a keyboard here, I dunno. At least we are providing entertainment for a bunch of people.

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> One thing I know for sure is that Mike is not gonna come all the way up here and race me even if I did throw money down. At this point it's all a bunch of BS.
> And you ALSO are apparently not reading the rest of thread as to how I feel about tuning with A/F. Maybe to establsh a baseline , certainly not for any accurate in-depth tuning. A/F is also varies from car to car , what works on one car will not work on another , there's too many variables at work such as engine wear.
> 
> Something your apparently not thinking about is that I have absolutely nothing to prove to a bunch of ricers. I've read some of the other threads in here , this place should really be ashamed of itself.
> ...


You don't understand, monitoring A/F ratio is the number one most important parameter when tuning an engine, THE MOST IMPORTANT. Sure the best AF can vary somewhat from engine type to type but when tuning you need to know what it is to determine what direction you need to go and your safty margin. Ask any professional engine builder what parameter is the most important when programing a ECU, go ahead and call Dave Busher and ask him. If you tell them that A/F ratio is not that important, you will have the same argument with them as well.

I don't even know where the hell "up here" is but I tell you what, if its a reasonable distance and we are really going for at least $2000, I'll drive a decent distance. It has to be for money, you are talking smack so its gotta hurt a little right? If you beat me its gonna hurt but I am willing to lay it on the line. I don't need to insult you like you have to insult me, whatever, I am just telling you to put up or shut up. Tell you what lets go for more money and you come down to california? You are so sure you are gonna whip me, then its a sure thing right?

You don't have to race my Sentra's, you got a choice of a couple of Z's if you want, a slow one or a faster one, you can pick either. 

Race like a real man, put your money where your mouth is. You call us ricers but we are racers, we are willing to race. I guess you are afriad to race a ricer because if you lose to one, you won't know what to call yourself  

Mike


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## JakeMonkey (Feb 3, 2004)

so there was this one time when i was walking down the road and all of a sudden an R32 with a squirrel driving it went by me, and just as it passed, its wheels fell off and the squirrel got out and said " Remember that one time, when there was a thread about hooking up an air fuel ratio gauge, and some dudes went back and forth on each other for 6 pages?
and i was like, "yeah man, that was crazy"
and then he gave me a million dollars and his head exploded.
the end


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> You don't understand, monitoring A/F ratio is the number one most important parameter when tuning an engine, THE MOST IMPORTANT. Nope , sorry , it's not. Knock is. Ask anybody who drives a real turbo car. Ask any DSMer what they tune for. NO KNOCK. Sure the best AF can vary somewhat from engine type to type but when tuning you need to know what it is to determine what direction you need to go and your safty margin. Ask any professional engine builder what parameter is the most important when programing a ECU, go ahead and call Dave Busher and ask him. If you tell them that A/F ratio is not that important, you will have the same argument with them as well.Dave Buschur doesn't tune for A/F either. Neither does John Sheperd. I've met BOTH of those guys and we've talked engines
> 
> I don't even know where the hell "up here""up here" is Colorado. Read the profile is but I tell you what, if its a reasonable distance and we are really going for at least $2000, I'll drive a decent distance. It has to be for money, you are talking smack so its gotta hurt a little right? If you beat me its gonna hurt but I am willing to lay it on the line. I don't need to insult you like you have to insult me, whatever, I am just telling you to put up or shut up. Tell you what lets go for more money and you come down to california? You are so sure you are gonna whip me, then its a sure thing right?]If your so sure , then you'll come up here and race me , just to prove it.
> 
> ...


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

^^^^

If I didn't know any better, I'd call you a lot more names than you could ever imagine. Stop with your fucking insults and prove your shit. Mike, I'm not good with U.S. geography, but do you think you could make it up to Colorado? This guy needs to learn what Sentras are all about.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

someone needs to get chimmike in here to regulate! Oh my god JAKE- youre a funnier bastard then me!!!!! THATS FUNNY AS HELL DUDE!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA- IM AT WORK LAUGHING MY ASS OFF RIGHT NOW A SQUIRREL IN A SKYLINE


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

I love this thread. It's the first thing I check every morning. Jake that squirrel in a skyline was to much :thumbup:


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

[email protected] has his panties in a twist because he knows he's wrong.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

That was one of the funniest things I have ever read on nissanforums


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## JakeMonkey (Feb 3, 2004)

Heh. I guess it was just time for the Skyline squirrel intervention. something had to be done.


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

[email protected] said:


>


Bababababababababababababababababababababababababababababababa.

And
Bababababababababababababababababababababababababababababababa.
:loser:


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

Spongerider said:


> Bababababababababababababababababababababababababababababababa.
> 
> And
> Bababababababababababababababababababababababababababababababa.
> :loser:



 

lol


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

This one should really be finished off- you should excercise your responsibilities as a mod and close it- its funny, but it is kinda getting out of hand---or just let them duke it out........Jake- that shit was the funniest thing I have read- I read it over and over again and it is even funnier!


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


>


Of course you tune for no detonation but you also tune via air fuel ratio and best power without detonation. You say you monitor knock sensor cross counts but tell me einstien, how does your old school batch fire non-OBD ECU do that?Your argument is like saying they tune without dynos as well. I bet you that Dave Busher monitors A/F ratio while tuning. Lets say I bet you $200 he does and I'll have him send you an e-mail saying he does? You are just doing lame verbal manuvers to try to avoid saying that you are wrong. I guess you think Clark Steppler at Jim Wolf Technology is a moron because he uses a very accurate $8000 a/f sensor and uses it extensivly for tuning?

Hey I got a family to feed as well but can't you see this is an investment, you are so sure you are going to beat me that you will make a lot of money, or are you not so sure of your self and your car? I make enough money to cover this and I am good for it. How about you race me for $3000 and you come out here? I don't feel like going to Colorado I'll have to take a week off of work and $2000 is not worth that. I would go to arizona or nevada or something. Either that or you meet me at Firebird Raceway in Arizona or LVMS in Nevada. I spoke to Dave and he's down to race you as well, lets say you come down to Willow Springs and you can have a crack at both of us if you like, lets say $2000 each. You can come down for a TCRA, NASA or Speedtrial event where they allow street cars and carry a transponder on your car.

I will set up a paypal escerow account and we both put the money in it. I am totaly serious. I am not moving until you put up the money because I might drive a lot and you won't race or won't show up.

You are talking all this smack because you really are just all talk. A smart tuner or enthusiast whould know better. I don't belive you are an older experianced tuner, you are probably a 18 year old kid who gets their tech info from Super Street. If I beat you I won't even talk smack or even post about it.

Either that or you are a troll screwing around. Don't bother posting anymore unless you are going to put it up. I am done with you unless you show me the money. It was fun.  

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JakeMonkey said:


> so there was this one time when i was walking down the road and all of a sudden an R32 with a squirrel driving it went by me, and just as it passed, its wheels fell off and the squirrel got out and said " Remember that one time, when there was a thread about hooking up an air fuel ratio gauge, and some dudes went back and forth on each other for 6 pages?
> and i was like, "yeah man, that was crazy"
> and then he gave me a million dollars and his head exploded.
> the end


Did you get to keep the car?

Mike


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

the annual SERCA convention seems like a good reason to come out here too! get together then for the race...


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

James said:


> the annual SERCA convention seems like a good reason to come out here too! get together then for the race...


I suggested that but he won't do it. Hey [email protected], if you make it easy for me and come to a place where I am already going to be, I'll race you for fun or money, whatever you are down for. 

Mike


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

How about if I race you and other Cali enthusiasts for shits and giggles, Mike? All I have is a working motor that I will be building this summer. I've been on the hunt for a new, rust-free shell. So let's hope I have one by the end of this year. I might go all the way down the Cali next summer if you motivate me enough to do so.


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## JakeMonkey (Feb 3, 2004)

Sadly, soon after the squirrel's head exploded, the r32 exploded as well, sending flying pieces of tire into my million dollars, causing a large fire that not only burnt all of the money, but also burnt down half of California and a small part of Texas. When everything was said and done, i was back to where i started before i met that damn squirrel: broke and without a ride.
the end part 2


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JakeMonkey said:


> Sadly, soon after the squirrel's head exploded, the r32 exploded as well, sending flying pieces of tire into my million dollars, causing a large fire that not only burnt all of the money, but also burnt down half of California and a small part of Texas. When everything was said and done, i was back to where i started before i met that damn squirrel: broke and without a ride.
> the end part 2


So the fires were your fault? I thought a 280ZX guy named Dave Karey's car caught on fire while he was doing a canyon run and started the fire.

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Harris said:


> How about if I race you and other Cali enthusiasts for shits and giggles, Mike? All I have is a working motor that I will be building this summer. I've been on the hunt for a new, rust-free shell. So let's hope I have one by the end of this year. I might go all the way down the Cali next summer if you motivate me enough to do so.


Try to make it to the convention.

Mike


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Wow this is getting sad. I would come out to a track but sadly I live in Tennessee and Cali is alittle far to take my Z (I would have to trailer it). Plus since every damn hick and driver here only cares about the straights there are very very few road tracks that I can go too. Luckily the SCCA has an autocross at the high school but they haven't started back up yet for the spring to my knowledge. Yeah the Z31 has loads of power potential and very very few people would ever think twice about a Z31 being fast (most of them don't understand that the Turbos are quick stock and easily made stupid fast!). The odd thing though where I live in my town the American Muscleguys actually respect my car (I am the only Japanese car that they will say they have any respect for hehe) Here it's solid rice and seeing another nice car is rare so thats life for me. But if any of you all are going to be in the Tennessee area (hopefully middle tennessee) and an autocross or road track is near by I am always game.

Oh yeah and to cap it off Air Fuel Ratio in a car is supossed to be the only limiting factor so it is probably the most important factor when tuning. If the A/F ratio is off bad bad things happen. Of course Knocking is really bad too and we all know what causes knocking  .


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Harris said:


> ^^^^
> 
> If I didn't know any better, I'd call you a lot more names than you could ever imagine. Stop with your fucking insults and prove your shit. Mike, I'm not good with U.S. geography, but do you think you could make it up to Colorado? This guy needs to learn what Sentras are all about.


I know Sentras are FWD and generally not worth my time to waste racing them. Also generally not a platform you think of when you think of a "sports" car. I've never seen any (normal) FWD car that could keep up with any RWD car under any conditions , drag or autocross. So unless there a helluva lot of money invested in that thing , there no way in the 9 levels of Hell that thing is going to be able to touch me. 

Oh ,and some idiot mentioned something about the Z31s ECU being "batch fire". Sorry , pally , it only goes into batch fire mode above 3000 rpm.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> Wow this is getting sad. I would come out to a track but sadly I live in Tennessee and Cali is alittle far to take my Z (I would have to trailer it). Plus since every damn hick and driver here only cares about the straights there are very very few road tracks that I can go too. Luckily the SCCA has an autocross at the high school but they haven't started back up yet for the spring to my knowledge. Yeah the Z31 has loads of power potential and very very few people would ever think twice about a Z31 being fast (most of them don't understand that the Turbos are quick stock and easily made stupid fast!). The odd thing though where I live in my town the American Muscleguys actually respect my car (I am the only Japanese car that they will say they have any respect for hehe) Here it's solid rice and seeing another nice car is rare so thats life for me. But if any of you all are going to be in the Tennessee area (hopefully middle tennessee) and an autocross or road track is near by I am always game.
> 
> Oh yeah and to cap it off Air Fuel Ratio in a car is supossed to be the only limiting factor so it is probably the most important factor when tuning. If the A/F ratio is off bad bad things happen. Of course Knocking is really bad too and we all know what causes knocking  .


Don't forget about octane!

Yup the Z31 is a very underated car. Not to many people understand its true deadly potential which is sort of a good thing.

Mike


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

[email protected], I said before and I'll say it again, don't underestimate cars that you've never raced against. FWD should not always be considered a handicap. You never know when one will hand your ass to you. I do insist that you go against one of Mike's Sentras. You will shut up immediately. That's a promise.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

YEA! ANY CAR YOU GOT!! Mike's Sentra will kick its ass!! ANY RACE!!!

(wish I could see Mike's face right now...  )


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I know Sentras are FWD and generally not worth my time to waste racing them. .



I got money that says you've never had your ass handed to you by a 300+whp sentra, or eclipse, or SRT4, or civic, have you?

That's probably because of where you live. If you move your fat, air filled head out of your ass, you'll realize there are many, many more fast FWD cars out there that you'd run and hide your feminine tail from.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I know Sentras are FWD and generally not worth my time to waste racing them. Also generally not a platform you think of when you think of a "sports" car. I've never seen any (normal) FWD car that could keep up with any RWD car under any conditions , drag or autocross. So unless there a helluva lot of money invested in that thing , there no way in the 9 levels of Hell that thing is going to be able to touch me.
> 
> Oh ,and some idiot mentioned something about the Z31s ECU being "batch fire". Sorry , pally , it only goes into batch fire mode above 3000 rpm.


It doesnt matter if the cars not a "sports car" platform, its about lateral grip, braking abilty, power to weight ratio. I think its pretty funny that you are so cocksure that you can beat my car just because its a Sentra without even knowing about its capabiltys or specs or that its a race proven package.

I'll tell you a little about the car so maybe you will shut up. It is basicaly a B13 Sentra with an SE-R Cup car full race suspension, capable of pulling 1.02 g's on the skidpad with hard Toyo RA-1 tires and even more with Hoosiers which I will certanly have if you still have the balls to race, 440 whp 407 lb/ft of torque, big Willwood 4-piston brakes, functional aerodynamics, 5-speed dog engaugment sequntial transmission for flat out super fast clutchless shifts through a super low inertia twin disc clutch. It runs mid-high 11's with 9x24 slicks and its a registered street car with AC and power steering, it runs 1:31 at Streets of Willow raceway, faster than many race cars. It weights 2456 lbs. This car really exsists, a few people here have seen it.

Still think you can beat me? To be sporting I am telling you what you are up against.

Welcome to level 9

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Oh ,and some idiot mentioned something about the Z31s ECU being "batch fire". Sorry , pally , it only goes into batch fire mode above 3000 rpm.


Just have to get an insult in as well eh buddy? Ya gotta try better than that. You are really grabbing at anything to try and take a poke now. So that means a Z31 is not batch fire?  Your logic is superb.

It goes batch at high rpm because the processor does not have enough computing power to stay sequntial.

Why don't you admit you are wrong about the a/f ratio thing yet?

Mike


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> It doesnt matter if the cars not a "sports car" platform, its about lateral grip, braking abilty, power to weight ratio. I think its pretty funny that you are so cocksure that you can beat my car just because its a Sentra without even knowing about its capabiltys or specs or that its a race proven package.
> 
> I'll tell you a little about the car so maybe you will shut up. It is basicaly a B13 Sentra with an SE-R Cup car full race suspension, capable of pulling 1.02 g's on the skidpad with hard Toyo RA-1 tires and even more with Hoosiers which I will certanly have if you still have the balls to race, 440 whp 407 lb/ft of torque, big Willwood 4-piston brakes, functional aerodynamics, 5-speed dog engaugment sequntial transmission for flat out super fast clutchless shifts through a super low inertia twin disc clutch. It runs mid-high 11's with 9x24 slicks and its a registered street car with AC and power steering, it runs 1:31 at Streets of Willow raceway, faster than many race cars. It weights 2456 lbs. This car really exsists, a few people here have seen it.
> 
> ...


[email protected] just got owned.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Wait Mike was your car the tight red Sentra (the one with the sequential tranny)that was on the twins show? If so that is a nice car a very nice car.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

And no I didn't forget about octane just didn't mention it.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> And no I didn't forget about octane just didn't mention it.


Yeah I figured, you knew.

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> Wait Mike was your car the tight red Sentra (the one with the sequential tranny)that was on the twins show? If so that is a nice car a very nice car.


Yes, they cut out the parts where I was wasting Honda's like they were standing still. Too bad the car broke just as I was getting used to the track.

Its fixed now though  Its awaiting for me to have time to tune its new 72 lb injectors using primarily a Horiba wide band O2 sensor. The cylinder head temp and knock cross counts method is too complex for my moron brain to comprehend  

Mike


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Sweet I really liked that car.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Yeah I remeber the tranny crapped out on you yes? And I know that thing was wasting Hondas left and right :cheers: . That car was PiZimp hope you keep enjoying it.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> Sweet I really liked that car.


Thanks! Sorry for the bad showing and that gay fake gang fight they made us do for the cameras.

It was so fun, it was a rush rowing that tranny while spinning the tires down the whole front straight. The car shifts so fast it sounded like an indy car, too bad they cut the sound out.

The dual disc clutch had improperly heat treated splines so they stripped and took out the inputshaft of the tranny. That was expensive. The clutch was rushed and there was no time for the heat treat but the clutch company thought the splines would hold.

Mike


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

LMAO it was till nice to see the Nissans at it.  And of course I still hate Honda!


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Well now you have your tranny back so time to rip up some more hondas.

Yeah I remember them saying it had been a rush to get it together (I know how that is). It sucks that it failed but I am glad to hear it is all working again. And yeah that would be expensive. Anything dealing with a Sequential cost loads of money not to mention custom ones.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

chimmike said:


> [email protected] just got owned.



You wish.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

From what I can see here , it takes a $35,000 Sentra to beat a $3500 Z31. Real impressive. I'm laughing my ass off here. :fluffy:


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> From what I can see here , it take a $35,000 Sentra to beat a $3500 Z31. Real impressive. I'm laughing my ass off here. :fluffy:



BAHAHAHA what? Classic SER- $1500. T3/T04 turbo setup $2000(300+whp) (314whp classic SER with USDM SR20 pulled a 13.09 on street tires, can your Z31 do that, for less than $3500?) . OR B13- $500, SR20DET-$1500, upgrade- $1000----350+whp

Beating [email protected] and making him look like a tard in front of everyone: Priceless.


that's why you won't do it, you're a pussy!!


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> You wish.


Now its yo mama's  Whats up ball run out of intellect?

Did I mention that since the 440 whp dyno the engine now has a O2 induction manifold and a newer generation turbo which should make even more power, it just hasnt been tuned yet because I have been too busy racing, yes real racing, not keyboard racing.

Unless you a certain that your car is faster than Steve Mitchells (probably the fastest Z31 in the country, he's a mod here and he is laughing at you) you had better be at least a little worried. I don't think your car is as fast as his because if you don't have the money to race for my proposed sum, you don't have the money to build a car like his :loser: 

Steve himself knows that my Sentra would be a tough nut to crack. You don't.

Mike


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Since my Z has been in my family since it has had 1.1 miles on it and I didn't have to pay for it I can say yes! LOL But my Z has the JDM engine (hehe came with the car) so i start with about 200WHP stock - alittle maybe whereas USDM Turbos have that much at the fly. But since I didn't have to pay a cent for the car I can say yes I can do that. If I find a Z31T cheap in good condition I could probably do that too.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> From what I can see here , it takes a $35,000 Sentra to beat a $3500 Z31. Real impressive. I'm laughing my ass off here. :fluffy:


Hey it didnt cost me nearly that much but I am tricky and resourseful when it comes to getting parts cheaply by trading work helping develop them.

Its more like it will take a Z31 that costs an equvalent dollar amount to beat my Sentra, not to mention some thinking behind the engine and suspension set up and adjustment. I could beat a $3500 Z31 with a SE-R with less dollars in it than $3500 including the price of tthe car. Yes it will take my trick SE-R to beat your supposed trick 11 second Z31. You won't be running 11's with $3500 either.

In SCCA Showroom stock racing the inferior SE-R turned nearly the same lap times as the older Z31's did in nearly stock condition. I think you are running out of excuses.

Mike


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Yeah Steve Mitchells Z is SWEET. I am hoping to get to that level. His car is my favorite Z31 300ZX Turbo (I have a favorite that is a 300ZR in Japan). I hope to see that Z in person some day because it is really nice to see a Z31 that stands up for all the other people who tell me that the Z31 is crap. Hehe well they said that before they were staring at my Zs rear bumper out of turn one. :fluffy:


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> Yeah Steve Mitchells Z is SWEET. I am hoping to get to that level. His car is my favorite Z31 300ZX Turbo (I have a favorite that is a 300ZR in Japan). I hope to see that Z in person some day because it is really nice to see a Z31 that stands up for all the other people who tell me that the Z31 is crap. Hehe well they said that before they were staring at my Zs rear bumper out of turn one. :fluffy:


If you even come to california, I'll introduce you to him, that car is amazing. But I guess [email protected]'s car is even more amazing, its just as fast for $3500. Damn if I could do that, I would be flaming and demanding respect everwhere I went as well.

Mike


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

That would be a dream but i don't think I will be going to California anytime soon. My Z might not be driven for 4 years soon because I am looking at attending either West Point or the Air Force Academy hopefully. So how it looks now is I am going to finish what I have now to put on the car send it to the paint shop to get my pinstripping and new paint (even though it's in extremely good shape for an 18 year old car). Then it will go in storage for 4 years except for some running to keep the condition up for the four years then after the academies I am going to finish my Z and get it to the level I want it at.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

And Steve Mitchells car is an inspiration for mine to say the least.


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> You wish.


*This is [email protected] trying to flame,*

"Bla bla bla bla blabla bla blabla bla blablablablablabla....."

*This is [email protected] trying to be smart,*

"Bla bla bla bla blabla bla blabla bla blablablablablabla....."

*This [email protected] trying to dig himself out of a hole after Mike challange him to a race,*

"Bla blablabla.... Blablablablabla bla blabla blablablabla.... Blablablablabla bla blabla blablablabla.....Blablablablabla bla blabla blablablabla....Bla blablabla.... Blablablablabla bla blabla blablablabla.... Blablablablabla bla blabla blablablabla.....Blablablablabla bla blabla blablablabla"

*This [email protected] trying to .....Well you guys know his deal?!* 

:waving:Look at me I'm [email protected]!


----------



## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[email protected], must suck when everyone points out how retarded you are!


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)




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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

Has anyone ever been to the cow town of Longmont? I'm sure Mr. Ball... cruises on Friday and Saturday nights down Main and all that. I have been there and it isn't anything like a good cruise spot should be. Maybe if he would come down to the Hamburger Stand at 6th and Union (only a mile away from me) on Sundays he would see what a real cruise is about. How about bringing your Z31 up to Bandimere in June to see what you can really do, I may still be here to show you what a FWD "POS" can do because I don't drive a "family car". I have a lot of respect for several people who you insulted, but one way another I will see what you have to put on the table. Although I'm not expecting much. 

Troy


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Be glad you have your good cruise spot and import scene. Some of us aren't as lucky. Where I live its all rice and hicks. And the scary thing is when the two combine.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> That would be a dream but i don't think I will be going to California anytime soon. My Z might not be driven for 4 years soon because I am looking at attending either West Point or the Air Force Academy hopefully. So how it looks now is I am going to finish what I have now to put on the car send it to the paint shop to get my pinstripping and new paint (even though it's in extremely good shape for an 18 year old car). Then it will go in storage for 4 years except for some running to keep the condition up for the four years then after the academies I am going to finish my Z and get it to the level I want it at.


Maybe do the engine and stuff first and the paint last, that way it won't get dinged up while you do all the mechanicals.

Perhaps wait until you get out of school and have some more time and money then do it the way you really want it. Your car will still be waiting for you when you are done.

Mike


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> From what I can see here , it takes a $35,000 Sentra to beat a $3500 Z31. Real impressive. I'm laughing my ass off here. :fluffy:


excuses.... you know what they say about them...


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Spongerider said:


> *This is [email protected] trying to flame,*
> 
> "Bla bla bla bla blabla bla blabla bla blablablablablabla....."
> 
> ...


Sure pally , whatever you say. :cheers:


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

KA24Tech said:


> Has anyone ever been to the cow town of Longmont? I'm sure Mr. Ball... cruises on Friday and Saturday nights down Main and all that. I have been there and it isn't anything like a good cruise spot should be. Maybe if he would come down to the Hamburger Stand at 6th and Union (only a mile away from me) on Sundays he would see what a real cruise is about. How about bringing your Z31 up to Bandimere in June to see what you can really do, I may still be here to show you what a FWD "POS" can do because I don't drive a "family car". I have a lot of respect for several people who you insulted, but one way another I will see what you have to put on the table. Although I'm not expecting much.
> 
> Troy


 Oh , I don't cruise in Longmont , although theres a few fast cars here. A 5.0 Mustang with twin T3s running about 530 Hp , for one. Various modded C5s and such too. But I usually cruise and race down in Denver , where the big boys are. The 11 second Mk4 Supras and stuff like that. Oh , and I'm going to Bandimere on the 10th , this coming Saturday. Doubt I'll have the car completely sorted out by then , but I'm just going to establish a baseline for my car. This is the first time it's been to the track. Look for the rusty white Z31. It doesn't look nice , but it goes like hell.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Nah I am going to do the paint now. I am not the average poor high school student I saved up for a long time to get this Z where I want it. I am going to do all the mods planned first and paint and then take a break for awhile lol. I also will probably refurbish the front end in four years anyway after I finish everything I have planned. Right now I am actually looking at turning the car into a nice little show car to show at the Z events. I am behind schedule getting the car done though so my dad may be finishing it up when I am at college.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Nah I am going to do the paint now. I am not the average poor high school student I saved up for a long time to get this Z where I want it. I am going to do all the mods planned first and paint and then take a break for awhile lol. I also will probably refurbish the front end in four years anyway after I finish everything I have planned. Right now I am actually looking at turning the car into a nice little show car to show at the Z events. I am behind schedule getting the car done though so my dad may be finishing it up when I am at college.


Yeah , that's my intention too. A nice little show/race car. Too bad I couldn't get something like that sponsored. Sure would make my life easier.


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Yeah , that's my intention too. A nice little show/race car. Too bad I couldn't get something like that sponsored. Sure would make my life easier.


The only problem with that is in order to get sponsored you have to project a positive image for the company you are being sponsored by, which of course means you have to be receptive, diplomatic, and participate in as many legal events as possible. Of course if you work hard at it and start doing all of these things after your car is done or nearly finished then you can probably approach some local, national or international companies for partial sponsorship but realize that most have really nice cars that are submitted to them every day. I don't mean to sound as though I'm preaching or anything but the people who you might fly off the handle to on an internet forum could be the people who make or break that one or any potential sponsorship. I have learned a few things on the forums and one of them is don't be an a$$ because there are already enough of those to go around. Sell yourself in a good way not in a defensive one as projected here.

Just my .02

Troy


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Has anyone got any pictures of Steve's Z? I know he was nice enough to reply to me when Mike asked him about the wheels I want to get. Maybe He'll be nice enough to hook us up with some pictures too


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

http://z31.com/articles/8/
Heres an article about his car. So you can even read about it.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

KA24Tech said:


> The only problem with that is in order to get sponsored you have to project a positive image for the company you are being sponsored by, which of course means you have to be receptive, diplomatic, and participate in as many legal events as possible. Of course if you work hard at it and start doing all of these things after your car is done or nearly finished then you can probably approach some local, national or international companies for partial sponsorship but realize that most have really nice cars that are submitted to them every day. I don't mean to sound as though I'm preaching or anything but the people who you might fly off the handle to on an internet forum could be the people who make or break that one or any potential sponsorship. I have learned a few things on the forums and one of them is don't be an a$$ because there are already enough of those to go around. Sell yourself in a good way not in a defensive one as projected here.
> 
> Just my .02
> 
> Troy


I dunno about that. I know a few jerks FAR worse than me who have had their cars sponsored. Hondas and DSMs and such. If you make a good showing at the shows and the track , they don't much care about your personality , from what I've seen.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

that car is SICK!!!!!!!!! I love it- I just wish z31.com had a faster server damnit!


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

speaking of inferior FWD Sentra's, I was at the SCC/Superstreet time attack tuesday and my friend Jeff Nayerat was there with his turbo B13 Sentra which has 150 less hp than mine with worse suspension and brakes. All of the top US and JDM tuners are representing with their top cars. Tuners such as Comtech, XS engineering, Skunk 2, JIC, ETC...

He came in second in the unlimited FWD class and 5th overall. The only cars to beat him were Tarzan Yamada's signal R34 GT-R, the Sparco EVO, James Chen's Ferrari and the Hasport Supercharged K20A Civic. He beat several built to the max Skyline GTR's, Every single built to the hilt NSX, Civic, Intergra RSX and S2000. Every single WRX, Silvia and Supra including the Turbo Twins 1000 hp monster. Every EVO except for the Sparco EVO including some 500 hp monsters. Many pro drivers including Keichi Tsuchiya, John Norris and Orido.

He turned a lap time of 1:59 which is faster than the big AI class V8 racers! This and my street SE-R is faster than his car.

The point is FWD is not inferior, even at this lofty level of compitition against super tuned FWD, RWD and 4WD cars. Whats even more amazing is the Hasport Civic was 4th fastest in this elite group, further proving that FF is not nessearily the underdog.

Mike


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> speaking of inferior FWD Sentra's, I was at the SCC/Superstreet time attack tuesday and my friend Jeff Nayerat was there with his turbo B13 Sentra which has 150 less hp than mine with worse suspension and brakes. All of the top US and JDM tuners are representing with their top cars. Tuners such as Comtech, XS engineering, Skunk 2, JIC, ETC...
> 
> He came in second in the unlimited FWD class and 5th overall. The only cars to beat him were Tarzan Yamada's signal R34 GT-R, the Sparco EVO, James Chen's Ferrari and the Hasport Supercharged K20A Civic. He beat several built to the max Skyline GTR's, Every single built to the hilt NSX, Civic, Intergra RSX and S2000. Every single WRX, Silvia and Supra including the Turbo Twins 1000 hp monster. Every EVO except for the Sparco EVO including some 500 hp monsters. Many pro drivers including Keichi Tsuchiya, John Norris and Orido.
> 
> ...


That's amazing. But is it street legal? Something tells me its not. I'm talking as in street legal cars , most FWDs are inferior. But sure , you can get a FWD to hook if its a race car , no problem.


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

Jeff's car is a race car. Mike's car is way faster than Jeff's and IS street legal :thumbup:


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> That's amazing. But is it street legal? Something tells me its not. I'm talking as in street legal cars , most FWDs are inferior. But sure , you can get a FWD to hook if its a race car , no problem.


Its a se-r cup SRX car. The funny thing is that my street car has much more power, the same tranny, same LSD, better lighter clutch, more front downforce, better brakes and better suspension than his race car so I would say its pretty safe to presume it could be faster.

My street SE-R has stiffer suspension and actualy rides worse but rolls less, etc than Jeff's car. I think FWD can do pretty good up to 300 whp. Then FR has an advantage. My car went faster at 14 psi than 23 psi on a road course. Jeff's car has about 285 whp.

Basicaly my street car is an SE-R Cup SRX car without a cage, with air conditioning an interior and a muffler.

Mike


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> Its a se-r cup SRX car. The funny thing is that my street car has much more power, the same tranny, same LSD, better lighter clutch, more front downforce, better brakes and better suspension than his race car so I would say its pretty safe to presume it could be faster.
> 
> My street SE-R has stiffer suspension and actualy rides worse but rolls less, etc than Jeff's car. I think FWD can do pretty good up to 300 whp. Then FR has an advantage. My car went faster at 14 psi than 23 psi on a road course. Jeff's car has about 285 whp.
> 
> ...


Sounds interesting. See , I grew up in an era when FWD cars were family or econo cars and really nothing more , so forgive my bias. The best of the ones I first knew about were the CRXs and the 1st gen Teg-Rs. And before that , nothing could really hold a candle to RWD that I was aware of , JDM stuff not withstanding.


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I dunno about that. I know a few jerks FAR worse than me who have had their cars sponsored. Hondas and DSMs and such. If you make a good showing at the shows and the track , they don't much care about your personality , from what I've seen.


I won't dispute that, but at least around here the "H" cars and the three diamonds (and Subarus too) are popular so many times the people who approached these companies first got some sort of sponsorship because some of these companies wanted some local market penetration. Although I have seen cars that the owners claim they are sponsored when in actuality they had only put the logos/stickers on their cars. My point being you are in an older Nissan platform and Nissans unfortunately don't have a very big market share in the rocky mountain region thus it is more difficult to gain a company's attention when they are looking typically for a mass market approach for their money spent. Meaning you just have to work that much harder but in my mind if the person is a complete tool then it will make it that much sweeter to get their sponsorship removed from them.

Troy


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Sounds interesting. See , I grew up in an era when FWD cars were family or econo cars and really nothing more , so forgive my bias. The best of the ones I first knew about were the CRXs and the 1st gen Teg-Rs. And before that , nothing could really hold a candle to RWD that I was aware of , JDM stuff not withstanding.


What about the Dodge Omni GLH(S) back in the mid 80's or the AWD Mazda 323 GTX and the B13 Sentra SE-R of the late 80's. I grew up around American Muscle cars (hell I still have my high school car a '70 442) and I was the odd ball back in the early 80's for building a V8 510 pickup for my dad when I had a '71 240Z and worked on Datsuns and Mazda RX-7s. Very few cars were FWD (except Honda) until the late 70's or early 80's because Americans had a hard time with anything other than the tradional FR layout. But then again in 1970, the 240Z was marketed as an elegant GT economy car...

Troy


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

KA24Tech said:


> What about the Dodge Omni GLH(S) back in the mid 80's or the AWD Mazda 323 GTX and the B13 Sentra SE-R of the late 80's. I grew up around American Muscle cars (hell I still have my high school car a '70 442) and I was the odd ball back in the early 80's for building a V8 510 pickup for my dad when I had a '71 240Z and worked on Datsuns and Mazda RX-7s. Very few cars were FWD (except Honda) until the late 70's or early 80's because Americans had a hard time with anything other than the tradional FR layout. But then again in 1970, the 240Z was marketed as an elegant GT economy car...
> 
> Troy


Yeah , FAST fwds were around such as the GLH , but I don't think it handled that well. And the 323 GTX is more the exception to the rule , as well as being super rare. Never saw a B13 Sentra , not too common around here I guess. I lived in Denver in the 80s , seems like most everybody had Hondas or Chevy Caprices , Ford Mustangs , stuff like that. Of course , there were also those areas of town with a lot of exotics. I liked hanging around those areas.


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