# braking with a manual



## RBCxPeTeRxEaTeR (Jul 15, 2002)

do u brake by putting the gear into neutral and then pressing on the brake pad? or do u downshift and press the brake pad at the same time? which one is a better way to brake?


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2002)

Depends on how I'm slowing down. In normal day to day, not-in-a-hurry driving I just push in the clutch and the brake as I get close to the light or stop.


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## HoldenASpecV (Jul 27, 2002)

WHEN U HAVE TO SLOW DOWN FAST U SHOULD DOWN SHIFT TO HELP YOU SLOW DOWN. BUT ITS NOT GOOD TO DO THAT ALL OF THE TIME. BUT IF IM JUST CRUISING, THEN I JUST BRAKE UNTIL I GET CLOSE TO THE LIGHT THAN I PUSH THE CLUTCH DOWN.


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2002)

> When u have to slow down fast u should down shift to help you slow down. but its not good to do that all of the time.


Huh? I've been driving sticks for 14 years and I always downshift. Of course you don't want to slam the gear and pop the clutch out, you just need to match the revs. People will claim it wears the clutch out, but in all my cars I've never replaced a clutch before 160k miles.


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## RBCxPeTeRxEaTeR (Jul 15, 2002)

*thanx for the replies*

ok but...bottom line...wat's the "proper" way of braking with a manual? cuz i wanna do wat's best for my car. thanx in advance


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## UpChuck (Jul 20, 2002)

downshifting wont hurt anything if it is done right. Like JoeFrat said just match revs. When i got rid of my 93 sentra it had 140k miles with original clutch. And there was nothing wrong with it when i got rid of it. It was just s....l......o......w......


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

if you're new at it, I would suggest pushing in the clutch when you brake (if you are coming to a complete stop). If you are just slowing down, just the brake. Make sure you learn how to match revs when you downshift b/c that's a good way to wear that clutch out.


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## RBCxPeTeRxEaTeR (Jul 15, 2002)

*o wow*

thanx everybody...i think i'll try and learn to match the revs so i'll just downshift when i brake...


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## UpChuck (Jul 20, 2002)

If you have a Maxima GXE why are you worried about downshifting, its an automatic.


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## SpIcEz (Jun 26, 2002)

Downshifting while braking (heel and toe) is only usefull to get you in the right gear to take off, it has absolutely nothing to do with braking.

Brakes are for braking !! thats it.

Id rather replace discs and pads than a 2000$ tranny


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## UpChuck (Jul 20, 2002)

downshifting does slow you down!!


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## SpIcEz (Jun 26, 2002)

Downshifting to slow you down also destroy's your tranny.

No good driver uses compression to brake, slow down by just letting off the gas ok, but not downshifting to have more compression and slowing you. Unless in winter (saved my arse a few times).

Do you guys think race car drivers use compression to slow down ??? 

Downshifting is ONLY to get you into the right gear (while braking) for the speed you'll be at when entering the curve, also to be in the right gear to get out of it.

Downshifting should NOT be used to brake. Its pointless, and can cost you a tranny in the long run.

Brakes arent called brakes for nothing.


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## UpChuck (Jul 20, 2002)

Do you understand what heel and toe shifting is?? I have never gained speed while heel and toe shifting.
when you downshift, you use the brakes too. Its not like your going 80 mph and instead of using the brakes just put the car in 3rd and dump the clutch. That is stupid. But when people talk about downshifting, they are still using the brakes. And a lot of racers use heel & toe shifting. I've seen it done before.


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## SpIcEz (Jun 26, 2002)

When heel & toe is done right the car will not slow down on compression one bit.

The whole point of heel in toe is this :

Brake, press the clutch, while comming out of gear and going to lower gear blip thottle to rev match with heel or right side of foot (while still braking), then let off clutch, repeat until in desired gear.

Key is to keep constant pressure on teh brakes. Heel & toe is ONLY to get you into a lower gear, with the clutch out (its easy to go down in gears with the clutch pressed) and to NOT UNBALANCE THE CAR.

That last statement is important. If you do not bleep the throttle its not heel & toe, and if you dont do it properly, the car will either jerk forward (compression) or backward (accelaration).

When your braking and preparing to engage a curve, you DO NOT want any uncontrolable weight transfer to the front or rear, your already braking, weight is to the front.


In any case, Im no expert at explaining things, I hope you understand what I mean.

Chris

BTW, I have not only seen it done, I do it myself, on the race track, twice a week. I am not talking out of my ass here. Also most people who talk about downshifting to slow down, do mean dump it in a lower gear and let compression do its job.


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

I wouldn't say you should downshift all the way to first when coming to a red light. The car will slow down so long as you let off the gas after you've matched the revs and the clutch has been released. I downshift when I go around corners to slow down (I don't have a manual clutch though ). I mean if you downshift constantly and do a crappy job at it, of course you're gonna bust the tranny.

the point is, when you're in a lower gear and you let off the gas, the car is gonna slow down faster than if you were in a higher gear.


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## SpIcEz (Jun 26, 2002)

Yes I agree.

My point is, many people will just downshift, not rev match, and slow the car on compression. That is not a good idea.


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## jspecv (Jul 1, 2002)

*I'm late in posting on this tread*

May not be cool, but use your brakes!!!

Have the correct gear selected for when you need power and release the clutch only when you need the power, not before.

When you have to replace your clutch at 40k and some can get 120k out of a clutch. There is a reason.

I agree it may no be cool, but use brakes, not the clutch. Compression braking is for kids.

Now at the track/autox. I use a more agressive method that will not upset the cars balance while at 100%. Not the same as everyday driving. Know the difference, be smarter. 

Great responses SpIcEz.

Jeff


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Heel-toe done properly will not wear out your clutch. Slippage is what wears out a clutch. I can almost quaranty that less slippage happens when you heel-toe then when you make and up-shift or when you are taking off from a stand-still. Heel- toe wearning out a tranny? I doubt that. GIve a me a good reason why( SpIcEz and 1997 GA16DE). I will agree however with the satement that heel-toeing is not for the use of engine braking. It is so that you are in a gear that will put you in your engines powerband given your current speed. 

Downshift an auto on the other hand... There is no reason to do it often. You shouldnt be downshifting an A/T to slow down all of the time. I can understand doing it so that you can have a lil engine braking when rolling down a hill, but to downshift for corners sound like you are a M/T wannabe(no one in particular here). Main reason I say this: You cannot correctly match revs with an A/T. Rember what I said about wearing out clutches(slippage)? An A/T uses several different clutches for its gear engagement and disengagement. Since you cannot correctly match revs with an A/T you are causing slippage in those clutches every time you downshift it. The BIGGEST enemy of any A/T is clutch slippage. There is a reason why soft shifting A/Ts wear out quiker than those that shift "firm". Those soft shifting A/Ts use slippage to make the shifts soft. "Firm" A/Ts slip less and therefore generally have more reliable.
Any questions??


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## SpIcEz (Jun 26, 2002)

I never said heel-toe per say will destroy a tranny.

I said downshifting to slow down, will cause premature wear.
Downshifting 2 gears to use the engine to brake, instead of using your brakes though WILL end up destroying your tranny.

Heel-toe when done properly, like I said, will not.
The whole purpose of heel toe is that yoru braking with the brakes, and just bliping the throttle to get you into the right gear WITHOUT having any slowing effects (or accelerating) from the engine.


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

"I never said heel-toe per say will destroy a tranny."-SpIcEz
*Sorry, I misunderstood.* 

"I said downshifting to slow down, will cause premature wear.
Downshifting 2 gears to use the engine to brake, instead of using your brakes though WILL end up destroying your tranny."-SpIcEz
*Agreed.*

"Heel-toe when done properly, like I said, will not.
The whole purpose of heel toe is that yoru braking with the brakes, and just bliping the throttle to get you into the right gear WITHOUT having any slowing effects (or accelerating) from the engine."-SpIcEz
*Tottaly agree.*


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## SpIcEz (Jun 26, 2002)

Aint it nice when we all agree ??

Hehe, I know it was something you misunderstood. Thats why I took the time to clarify. I like it when its easy like this.

Its so hard sometimes to be understood on the internet. Things are taken out of context way too often.

Peace, g'night.


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

"Aint it nice when we all agree ??"-SpIcEz
*Yes, It sure is.*

"Hehe, I know it was something you misunderstood. Thats why I took the time to clarify. I like it when its easy like this."-SpIcEz
*Thank you.*

"Its so hard sometimes to be understood on the internet. Things are taken out of context way too often."-SpIcEz
*Oh how true that is!*

"Peace, g'night."-SpIcEz
*Ditto*


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2002)

*newb question*

Sorry for the newbie question, but can someone clarify what the term "matching the revs" means?

i think i have an idea, but i just want to make sure..


thanks,
Peter

8/31/02 - day 1 with my new GXE'02 5spd


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Matching revs means that before you let the clutch out in a lower gear, you first "blip" the throttle to get the rpms at the same number as they will be once the clutch is out(in the lower gear).


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2002)

*thanks*

knowledge = power


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## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

*SpIcEz* is correct, shortest brake distance requires the car to be in neutral if equipped with manual transmission.

In the old-days, gear-boxes didn't have synchronizers, so it was a required practice so as not to grenade the tranny. Today, double-clutch downshifting (heel-and-toe, rev-matching) is only to prevent upsetting the car chassis when slowing for a corner that will require subsequent acceleration in a lower gear than used in approaching the corner. Bad things can happen when letting out the clutch if engine braking locks up the drive wheels.

Car and Driver has two recent articles about testing acceleration to 150 mph and back to zero. They have documented shorter braking distance in neutral.


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## RBCxPeTeRxEaTeR (Jul 15, 2002)

*hell and toe?*

what's heel and toe? i've been reading and this term came up a lot and i'm curious now


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## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

That was just discussed in a different forum. I found it very easily using .
Hint: hold your cursor over the button


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