# X-Trail SE 2005 (QR25) gas engine



## milou500 (May 5, 2005)

My X-trail is 17000 Km and makes a valve ticking-like noise when cold and under load only (i.e not on neutral). After the engine is warmed up, the sound is faint but still there and can be heard more clearly under load at 3000 rpm.
The dealer told me very surprisingly after inspection that 2 pistons are "loose" and that explained the noise. They say that the engine block has to be entirely replaced as Nissan's policy is not to repair this kind of malfunction.
I am very satisfied of my X but this is very serious and worrysome. Or maybe this is the friday afternoon or monday morning car...
Anyone heard about that?? 

Thanks


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## XTrail1 (Feb 24, 2005)

This is very regretable, disappointing for sure. But at least they found and explained the problem and will fix it. The QR25 engine has a very good reputation but it's not a perfect world, the same can and has happened even with the deemed top or most improved brands out there.


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## ERBell (Aug 7, 2005)

milou500 said:


> My X-trail is 17000 Km and makes a valve ticking-like noise when cold and under load only (i.e not on neutral). After the engine is warmed up, the sound is faint but still there and can be heard more clearly under load at 3000 rpm.
> The dealer told me very surprisingly after inspection that 2 pistons are "loose" and that explained the noise. They say that the engine block has to be entirely replaced as Nissan's policy is not to repair this kind of malfunction.
> I am very satisfied of my X but this is very serious and worrysome. Or maybe this is the friday afternoon or monday morning car...
> Anyone heard about that??
> ...


I know slight valve ticking when the engine is cold is normal with some 4 cyl. engines. Hondas have a reputation for piston slap on higher mileage engines. Sorry to hear about your problem.


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

milou500 said:


> My X-trail is 17000 Km and makes a valve ticking-like noise when cold and under load only (i.e not on neutral). After the engine is warmed up, the sound is faint but still there and can be heard more clearly under load at 3000 rpm.
> The dealer told me very surprisingly after inspection that 2 pistons are "loose" and that explained the noise. They say that the engine block has to be entirely replaced as Nissan's policy is not to repair this kind of malfunction.
> I am very satisfied of my X but this is very serious and worrysome. Or maybe this is the friday afternoon or monday morning car...
> Anyone heard about that??
> ...


 :bs: 

The ticking noise you hear is most likely the precat on the exhaust manifold heating up. Since they inspected you X and mentioned damage to 2 pistons, I'm thinking your pre-cat self-destructed (like almost all QR25DEs) and scored your cylinder walls.

XTrail1: The QR25DE engine is far from being reliable. Some problems include:

1. Head gasket warp thanks to differing temperatures between the head and block.
2. Too thin cylinder walls between the #2 and #3 pistons, excacerbated by a thin head gasket.
3. Precat self-destruction which gets sucked up into the engine block and scores the cylinders and pistons.
4. Butterfly valves and screws which become loose and find their way into the valvetrain and pistons.
5. Crank positioning sensor.
6. Throttle body oil buildup.
7. Malfunctioning MAF sensor.

etc, etc, etc.


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## XTrail1 (Feb 24, 2005)

Very interesting Terranismo, I've been reading on this site for quite a while now and don't recall reading about all the items on the list. Is there a better site where I can read about *all* these problems with *all* these QR engines?


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

www.b15sentra.net
www.qr25de.net
www.thevboard.com

By the way, the QR25DE engine in the Altima and Sentra have already be summoned for:

butterfly valve recall
exhaust manifold (where pre-cat is located)
transmission (gear desintegration)
head gasket (increased oil consumption)

While dealers frequently change these parts or perform these services under warranty with no questions asked:

MAF sensor
Throttle body cleanup

The X also has a recall of its own dealing with crank postioning sensors but it goes according to VIN numbers.

I would like to remind you that this X-Trail section is only 1 year (or less) old, while those other forums have been around for more than 4 years. 4 years documenting the QR25DE engine and its many failures.


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

Very good points Terranismo
But lets not be alarmist,

For sure the problems associated with the QR25DE are to be taken seriously.

But for those in Canada the X-Trail (& its QR25DE engine) has entered the market in mid 2004 with the 2005 edition. And again in Canada the QR25DE was first used in Altima & Sentra SE-R & SpecV since 2002, which gave a fair bit of time to work out the problems with the engine.

Also, it depends how you "treat" the QR25DE; Obviously you would tend to push limits more with a Sentra Spec-V than with an X-Trail, and therefore would more likely see the pre-catalytic converter degradation and butterfly screw coming loose with a Sentra than an X-Trail.

For those wanting more in depth info on their QR25 engine, the links provided by Terranismo will come in very handy!


The QR25 is a very good engine  when treated with respect.

(now I just hope I will not get hit by lightning for having said this)


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Marc I also thought the same as you did, but what about the Altima 2.5 S which is a normal family sedan, and also has the same problems that the Spec-V (and SE-R) have. The problems I stated above are either design or material defects in the engine's fabrication. For example:

Butterfly screws still come loose in 05 Spec-Vs.
Precat failure is still seen in the new 05 models.
Transmission problems were remedied in the 04 switch.
Head gasket warpage is still present in 04 and newer models.

My X, even with the oil catch can, still needs its throttle body regularly cleaned at service intervals, and I'm already on my second MAF sensor. The only real problem I have seen resolved is the crank positioning sensors. And lets not even get into the diesels. That's a whole 'nother world of problems with the YD22DDTi.

I've found the QR design really crappy, and Nissan obviously took short-cuts in its design compromising durability. However, they CAN be fixed with some aftermarket help, and it will make your ownership of the truck that much more enjoyable.


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## Oreo (Nov 5, 2004)

Wow, can't say I have seen any of the mentioned problems (at least not yet). I have 52 000 km, and everything is well. Except for a fuel gauge problem and a upper glove box popping open. It concerns me that the 2.5 engine has so many problem, however, nissan's service has always been exceptional (in my experience).

Greg


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

Terranismo said:


> .....engine's fabrication. For example:
> 
> Head gasket warpage is still present in 04 and newer models.


Terranismo,
By the way there is a nice article in NPM about this... check it out you might find it interesting.





Terranismo said:


> I've found the QR design really crappy, and Nissan obviously took short-cuts in its design compromising durability. However, they CAN be fixed with some aftermarket help, and it will make your ownership of the truck that much more enjoyable.


Sorry but I partially disagree: 
For you and I as well as others, who are hardcore tuners (seeking power over cosmetics) I agree that the QR is weak(er) (lets face it, from what I hear, it is no SR)
For daily driver it is a wonderful (light yet powerful) engine... (again with the normal kinks worked out since 2k2).

The only point, which I concede, is still up in the air is the catalytic converter so close to the engine as part of the exhaust header. (I wish it were more common knowledge if that ECU remapping really does help?)


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

ValBoo said:


> For you and I as well as others, who are hardcore tuners (seeking power over cosmetics)


I don't think you guys are that far behind in your cosmetics venture LOL  and I'm catching-up in the power department too. hehehe



> The only point, which I concede, is still up in the air is the catalytic converter so close to the engine as part of the exhaust header. (I wish it were more common knowledge if that ECU remapping really does help?)


I agree with this, especially after seeing the internals of the cat. converter up close and personal  ceramic!!!

For this percise reason, my upcoming mod will involve getting a high flow stainless steel cat along with a new header. I want to keep my engine safe and if that gives more power, it'll be a bonus.


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

ValBoo said:


> Terranismo,
> By the way there is a nice article in NPM about this... check it out you might find it interesting.
> 
> Sorry but I partially disagree:
> ...


I read the article on the head thermostat. A member at B-15 bought the thermostat that was listed on the article (the same as the block) and it did not fit. He just gutted his stock one.

The ECU map on the QR naturally runs very rich. The unburnt gasoline going into the pre-cat can actually cause the ceramic breakage. 

My local Nissan dealer was impressed with the mods I have on my truck and are thinking of offering the oil catch can as a dealer installed accessory. By the way, they already offer the option of gutting your stock pre-cat if the customer so desires.


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## Sergei_dekker (Jun 4, 2005)

anyway the QR has 180BHP or 165BHP???


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## Avery Slickride (Jan 6, 2005)

The pre-cat problem pertained to first generation X-Trails, not the version that came to Canada.
To the best of my knowledge, all the other problems cited by Terranismo afflicted earlier Sentras and Altimas, not Canadian X-Trails. Is there a pattern of these defects cropping up in the 2nd-gen X-Trail? Not that I've heard of.


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

Sergei_dekker said:


> anyway the QR has 180BHP or 165BHP???


Big mystery,
Actually it has both!
---> depends where you are from (or where you get your X-trail from)

How do you get the caramel *"OUT"* of a Caramilk? 

Answer: with a QR, very ggeennttllyy.


Sorry for the temporary insanity ... I need coffee!
Later,


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

Indeed, not seen on the X-trail (engine)

But seen on Sentra Spec V (04-05  )




Avery Slickride said:


> The pre-cat problem pertained to first generation X-Trails, not the version that came to Canada.
> To the best of my knowledge, all the other problems cited by Terranismo afflicted earlier Sentras and Altimas, not Canadian X-Trails. Is there a pattern of these defects cropping up in the 2nd-gen X-Trail? Not that I've heard of.


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## milou500 (May 5, 2005)

Terranismo said:


> I read the article on the head thermostat. A member at B-15 bought the thermostat that was listed on the article (the same as the block) and it did not fit. He just gutted his stock one.
> 
> The ECU map on the QR naturally runs very rich. The unburnt gasoline going into the pre-cat can actually cause the ceramic breakage.
> 
> My local Nissan dealer was impressed with the mods I have on my truck and are thinking of offering the oil catch can as a dealer installed accessory. By the way, they already offer the option of gutting your stock pre-cat if the customer so desires.


The thread has somewhat drifted but I am very interested to know if my engine problems (first message on thread) could come from a A/F ratio too low (too rich). I have been complaining to the dealer that my X cannot do less than 10 l/100 km on hwy and rarely belor 13,5 city. Is there a common point with the A/F ratio and the damages incurred by my engine? What should be A/F ratio on a QR25 in an Xtrail?


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

milou500 said:


> The thread has somewhat drifted but I am very interested to know if my engine problems (first message on thread) could come from a A/F ratio too low (too rich). I have been complaining to the dealer that my X cannot do less than 10 l/100 km on hwy and rarely belor 13,5 city. Is there a common point with the A/F ratio and the damages incurred by my engine? What should be A/F ratio on a QR25 in an Xtrail?


Not sure if cylinder washing could be your trouble.
As mentioned on NPClub, my stock air fuel ratio was 11 to 11.5 before tuning with SAFC. (yes very rich)

if your dealer is going to change the engine... they should also check the ECU ... there were reports of ECU problems.


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## milou500 (May 5, 2005)

ValBoo said:


> Not sure if cylinder washing could be your trouble.
> As mentioned on NPClub, my stock air fuel ratio was 11 to 11.5 before tuning with SAFC. (yes very rich)
> 
> if your dealer is going to change the engine... they should also check the ECU ... there were reports of ECU problems.



ok Valboo, thanks for the tip. This is exactly what I am going to do. I am not sure whether the piston problems are due to rich mixture but rechecking the A/F ration could help my gas consumption.

The surgery is planned for week of 5 dedember. I'll let you know the outcome of all this.Thanks for your advise.


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