# Nissan/Nascar/New



## EasyEd (Oct 11, 2004)

Hey All,

OK so I'm new to these forums so I'll hazard posting here.

First I'm a Nissan and (believe it or not) Dodge guy. I know that makes me some kinda schizo but... Anyway my 01 4x4 5sp xterra could never do what my 3/4 ton 4x4 5sp 90 cummins diesel does. The vice versa is true as well! I love both vehicles for different reasons. That said I'm obviously into 4x4 stuff but I'm also a racing fan. Particularly NASCAR, Offroad, Rally and Touring and whatever that kind of racing is that has 3 kinds of cars on the track at the same time. 

Anyway today I'm watching NASCAR race at Kansas and watching one louse-up after another by Dodge and I'm thinking why isn't Nissan getting into NASCAR? Toyota is and I often even find myself cheering for them! Surely the Frontier is a better truck than the Tundra - isn't it? I can't help but think that if I had Nissans to cheer for that might ease the pain of watching Jeremy Mayfield and Ryan Newman (my favorite since Bill Elliot retired) louse up. So why isn't Nissan into NASCAR?

Next issue. WRC! Where are the Nissans? Surely they got something to kick Subaru WRX but - don't they? My only consolation is in JWRC the Renault Clio is a pretty darn good car - but I can only track it on the internet as it's not WRC that rates TV coverage. I'm hoping this Nissan Renault marriage produces some good offspring!

Anyway - hope you don't mind the bit of a rant. I hope to participate here from time to time as I do at the SR20 forums and the XOC (xterra owners club). As a sidenote my next project car is an old British Leyland Mini that I want to put a Nissan engine in without changing the front end. I know of one with a Honda vtec that is a seriously seriously fast car. Talk about power to weight and nobody looking at it has a clue!

Take Care! -Ed-


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

I guess Nissan really hasn't been big in like F-1 and nascar type for a long time...I don't know if they ever plan on going into Nascar, but I'd LOVE To see a formula 1 Nissan powered car......I know the engineers have the skill and knowledge.........it's all about money basically.


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## Flying Vv (Apr 10, 2003)

chimmike said:


> I guess Nissan really hasn't been big in like F-1 and nascar type for a long time...I don't know if they ever plan on going into Nascar, but I'd LOVE To see a formula 1 Nissan powered car......I know the engineers have the skill and knowledge.........it's all about money basically.


 seems like alot of the japanese auto makers are getting hit hard these days


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

EasyEd said:


> Next issue. WRC! Where are the Nissans? Surely they got something to kick Subaru WRX but - don't they? My only consolation is in JWRC the Renault Clio is a pretty darn good car - but I can only track it on the internet as it's not WRC that rates TV coverage. I'm hoping this Nissan Renault marriage produces some good offspring!


I can't really comment on your other points, but I believe I can give some good insight as to why Nissan isn't involved in WRC. It is simply the fact that, given the involvement of French Manufacturers Renault and Pugeot, that any WRC involvement by the Renault group would be best be by a Renault badged car. Right now Renault is too bust spending their $$$ on F1 though, so they probably won't get involved until next year or later.

OK, so I lied, I will comment on the absence of Nissan in other motorsports. It is most likely that they are trying to just survive right now and turn a profit. Racing is too risky to throw money at for a struggling company.


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

EasyEd said:


> Anyway today I'm watching NASCAR race at Kansas and watching one louse-up after another by Dodge and I'm thinking why isn't Nissan getting into NASCAR? Toyota is and I often even find myself cheering for them! Surely the Frontier is a better truck than the Tundra - isn't it? I can't help but think that if I had Nissans to cheer for that might ease the pain of watching Jeremy Mayfield and Ryan Newman (my favorite since Bill Elliot retired) louse up. So why isn't Nissan into NASCAR?


I'm a Kenseth/Rusty fan myself, but I was happy to see Joe win today, what a great race at the end! Some paint trading that was honest racing, some excitement with Ricky and a good hard charge at the end. 

To answer, IMO, is that you are fighting tradition, an existing money base and the difficulties of an automotive company to remain competitive in the racing environment. History bears that out, look at how the different automotive company names come and go in the racing world.

Right now, Detroit has a huge history and intertia in NASCAR. I think for Nissan to be competitive, they would have to put some serious money into it as well as start out on the Busch series and the local short track circuits to get their motors and program respected. That's quite an investment. Toyota has some deep pockets and an established program from IRL - some history so it's not so hard for them to get involved in NASCAR with the trucks. 

I think that if/when NASCAR starts to go international, you'll see more of the foreign automakers start to look at stock car racing programs, but I suspect that's a few years from starting to come together. 

Regards,
Michael


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

Nissan not being in WRC wasn't about survival, it was just about the level of involvement and commitment. Nissan did field the Pulsar GTiR in some of the smaller rallies, but it was not competitive on the WRC level due to some technical issues. 

Nissan has been very active in motorsports in the past AND the present. The Frontier is a consistent contender in the Paris-Dakar runs, and Nissan always has the JGTC... They've fielded LeMans racers in the past... one hopes they'll do so again.

Nowadays, I think Nissan has enough cash and growth to put themselves in more motorsports... I believe the entry of the SE-R and the 350Z in some US racing series is a step in the right direction.

But it'd be awesome to see them go into the WRC with one of their AWD cars.

I don't see any problem with Nissan competing with Renault.... the Clio is perfect for the JWRC, while a hopefully AWD B15/N16 Sentra/Sunny or whatever will replace it would compete in the WRC.


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

niky said:


> The Frontier is a consistent contender in the Paris-Dakar runs,


That's probably the biggest reason they aren't involved with other types of racing, manufacturers sometimes tend to stick to one type of racing at a time, so as not to spread R&D $$$ to thin.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

for the NASCAR stuff, also note that the car must be 100% built in the US.. that's why you don't see imports in NASCAR. for the craftsman truck series, they have to meet certain size, weight, and stock engine criteria in order to be admitted (thus no S-10s or Ford Rangers in the class either). 

Toyota Tundra is built in the US, and currently it's the only japanese V8 truck that's built here, unless the Titan is 100% US-built too.


same thing with the cars, only rules are more stringent. must be between xxx and yyy in size and weight, production numbers of zzzzzz, built in US, come in 4 door and 2 door (old rule- not sure if it's still there or not), and lots of other issues involved before simply entering a car in those types of racing leagues.

good ol' boy racing at its finest right there!


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

Matt93SE said:


> for the NASCAR stuff, also note that the car must be 100% built in the US..


They all have custom motors... nothing stock about them. I doubt there is a rule that they have to built in the US.. Just most of the shops that build them are here (mainly North Carolina) and go back in the Nascar history. 

Many of the cars run Roush, Hendrick, or Evernham (if its a dodge) motors...at least the competitive ones do or they're built in-house by some of the bigger teams like Dale Earnhardt Inc (DEI). 

Roush, Hendrick, Evernham also have race teams, but a big part of the company is building motors for others teams.. 

On a trival side note: They actually don't sell them either, the motors are leased.. this way the teams using them can't copy the designs..etc...


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

I should have made that more clear.. that's on the production side.. Nissan, Chevy, Dodge, etc must be building the production cars in the states.

not saying they can't have parts from other countries (IIRC, dodge's trannies are built in Germany or canada or something), but the vehicle must be assembled here- which is what counts.


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## EasyEd (Oct 11, 2004)

Hey All,



Matt93SE said:


> I should have made that more clear.. that's on the production side.. Nissan, Chevy, Dodge, etc must be building the production cars in the states.
> 
> not saying they can't have parts from other countries (IIRC, dodge's trannies are built in Germany or canada or something), but the vehicle must be assembled here- which is what counts.


Matt your saying this jogged my memory. I think your right about this requirement. As I now recall Toyotas are assembled in - is it Tennesee? I don't know if there is another "foreign" car (besides Toyota) assembled in the US that would qualify for NASCAR. Darn and I had my hopes up. I doubt we're likely to see a Nissan factory in the US anytime soon. That said... I sure would like to see Nissan in WRC!

Take Care! -Ed-

PS Matt - your right my truck has a German made Getrag trani...


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## Sentra GTR-1 (Aug 2, 2002)

You are absolutley right, Nissan did enter the Pulsar GTI-R in several of the lower end rally championships in the early 1990's. Nissan also entered the Nissan 300ZX Twinturbo GT in GTP class at the Lemans 24 hour with Steve Millen piloting, as well as the R390 GT-1 at Lemans in 1997, and 1998. They have also entered the R391 as well as the P-35, so its safe to so Nissan has a strong and rich history and involvment in motorsports, thats not even going into Infinitis involvment.


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## konfuzion3 (Sep 17, 2004)

EasyEd said:


> Hey All,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nissan has a plant in Smyrna, Tennesee. That's where all of their trucks are assembled. I've also thought about the same thing...Why isn't there a Titan in the Craftsman truck series? Are they afraid of a little Japanese muscle!!! :thumbup: That's just my 2 cents...


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## 1900 (Jul 27, 2004)

I was wondering how well does nissan usualy do when they get involved in motorsports besides with the skyline which we know pretty much kicks all. And maybe how this has something to do with it


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## darkelf (Jul 24, 2003)

I'd love to see Nissan pick up where Ray Mallock engineering took the Nissan Micra and converted it into a mad RWD supercar using the Primera SR20 where the back seat is usually found. It's such a shame there was only one made. Nissan could sell these so easily and wouldnt have any trouble selling enough of these for homogolation purposes to race in several arenas. 

In the meantime, I'm talking to Ray Mallock Engineering to try to leech info on the setup they used on that micra. I'm tempted to buy an older micra to do much the same sort of conversion. Perhaps the Autech factory might yield under pressure from fans of car and do a limited build instead. It'd be fantastic for autocross or rally fun.

I'll post an update on my correspondance with Mallock Engineering once I have enough info. I'm mostly asking about the gearbox setup and suspension changes.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

Matt93SE said:


> I should have made that more clear.. that's on the production side.. Nissan, Chevy, Dodge, etc must be building the production cars in the states.
> 
> not saying they can't have parts from other countries (IIRC, dodge's trannies are built in Germany or canada or something), but the vehicle must be assembled here- which is what counts.


You guys are under the mistaken assumption that these are "stock" cars I guess.. nothing stock about them.. The Chevy, Ford, Dodge has more to do with advertising than actual parts. Yes a team a will start with a chevy block.. and that's it.. nothing that even resembles anything you would see in a chevy.

Doesn't matter where Dodge trannys are built... no "Dodge" tranny is in any of the "Dodge" NASCAR race cars. The trannys are custom clutchless trannys built by the race team or specialty shops.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

EasyEd said:


> Hey All,
> assembled in the US that would qualify for NASCAR. Darn and I had my hopes up. I doubt we're likely to see a Nissan factory in the US anytime soon.


What?... Just about all Nissans driven in the US are built by Nissan here in the US.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

1900 said:


> I was wondering how well does nissan usualy do when they get involved in motorsports besides with the skyline which we know pretty much kicks all. And maybe how this has something to do with it


Nissan has a rich history in motorsports. Not including the Skyline. Do a little research.


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

myoung said:


> You guys are under the mistaken assumption that these are "stock" cars I guess.. nothing stock about them.. The Chevy, Ford, Dodge has more to do with advertising than actual parts. Yes a team a will start with a chevy block.. and that's it.. nothing that even resembles anything you would see in a chevy.
> 
> Doesn't matter where Dodge trannys are built... no "Dodge" tranny is in any of the "Dodge" NASCAR race cars. The trannys are custom clutchless trannys built by the race team or specialty shops.


Personally, that doesn't apply to me - I'm well aware that all LMs are built ground up as racing chassis. However, it is true that a team's "Brand" will also support them with engine information, spec information, etc. Hence a Ford/Dodge/Chevy will apply to the tech moreso than the chassis. Toyota is providing the CTS Toyota teams with engines and tech, but they are the only non-American motor company with a NASCAR or stock car racing program. It's a shame that we can't see Nissan do the same.

You want to see real production racing, you'll have to get to a short track and check out the street stock, pure stock, 4 cyl or Enduro class stock car racing. Once you get into the Sportsman, like MidAmerican Sportsman classes, you are looking at varying off from the Production chassis and getting into customized.

Personally, I like Modifieds which have nothing to do with production models, but are just helluva fun to race.

In my 4cyl division, the imports regularly tromp all over the domestics - Honda Civics seem to be the preferred car right now. I'm hoping to change that a bit. 
:thumbup:


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## Sirikool (Apr 2, 2004)

*crossing fingers* I hope i get to see a Formula 1 Nissan Car b4 i get too old for this stuff. Though i doubt i'd get tired of it.


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

Sirikool said:


> *crossing fingers* I hope i get to see a Formula 1 Nissan Car b4 i get too old for this stuff. Though i doubt i'd get tired of it.


*laughs* Too old -- when I hear of 60yo guys still strapping on LMs and throwing themselves around dirt tracks, when some of the top fuel drivers are 50+ -- yea, don't think you have too much to worry about for awhile. 

Regards,
Michael - who's enjoying his new racing career at the crusty age of 38...


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## darkelf (Jul 24, 2003)

MShorten said:


> *laughs* Too old -- when I hear of 60yo guys still strapping on LMs and throwing themselves around dirt tracks, when some of the top fuel drivers are 50+ -- yea, don't think you have too much to worry about for awhile.
> 
> Regards,
> Michael - who's enjoying his new racing career at the crusty age of 38...



mate you've only got 8 years on me and are a good fair bit younger than the guy who let me drive his Nissan Pulsar N15 VZ-R N1 in New Zealand last week. He's got a few Nissan race cars (lucky bastard  ) 

I'm just getting into this field now at just on 30 so I hope I can stretch it out for another good 40 years or so


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

myoung said:


> You guys are under the mistaken assumption that these are "stock" cars I guess.. nothing stock about them.. The Chevy, Ford, Dodge has more to do with advertising than actual parts. Yes a team a will start with a chevy block.. and that's it.. nothing that even resembles anything you would see in a chevy.
> 
> Doesn't matter where Dodge trannys are built... no "Dodge" tranny is in any of the "Dodge" NASCAR race cars. The trannys are custom clutchless trannys built by the race team or specialty shops.



No offense, but you're assuming we're assuming things. I'm talking about NASCAR specifically, as I have no detailed knowledge of other sanctioning bodies' rules. But the fact is in order for a vehicle to be allowed to compete in NASCAR's Nextel Cup or Craftsman Truck series, they (they, meaning the original factory assembled Monte Carlo, Grand Am, Intrepid, whatever the car is modeled after) MUST be assembled in the US. They must also meet certain size and shape and body style requirements. The race cars must still share some sheet metal with the original car as well. the hood must be an OEM part, but they can remove the ribbing underneath in order to make room for the engine and save weight. the trunklid must be a 100% OEM part and retain all bracing underneath. The roofline and windows must also retain some semblance of the original car's design, but those are changed according to NASCAR's always changing rules in order to keep the cars as close as possible aerodynamically.

That's why the Toyota Tundra is able to compete in NASCAR. As far as I know the Nissan Titan meets those requirements as well since it is built in Tennessee, but that's about as far as I can go with that.

Being eligible for NASCAR doesn't mean anything about what's in the frame or drivetrain of the car. Most of those cars use Brembo or AP brakes- neither of which are made in the US.. Some of the lesser-funded teams use Wilwood and Coleman products which are both 99% as good at 1/3 the price. Trannies are often Canadian, German, or Italian in origin, and the engines are built in the US and Canada. not to mention wheel bearings, safety equipment, steering wheels, seats, and other 'generic' parts that can be used on any cars..

and FYI, they do have clutches. I've been in the paddock on a saturday before a race and seen the engines going in the cars. definitely have a flywheel and clutch hanging off them before they mate it to the tranny.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

Matt93SE said:


> the hood must be an OEM part, but they can remove the ribbing underneath in order to make room for the engine and save weight. the trunklid must be a 100% OEM part and retain all bracing underneath.


You're kidding right? It's sheet metal.. not OEM parts. Any idea how heavy a OEM Monte Carlo hood is even without the ribbing?? It has the same deminsions, but it's not the same part.. that should be obvious.



Matt93SE said:


> and FYI, they do have clutches. I've been in the paddock on a saturday before a race and seen the engines going in the cars. definitely have a flywheel and clutch hanging off them before they mate it to the tranny.


Nextel Cup and Busch Series cars do not have conventional Clutches.. 

Clutchless is the latest development in transmission technology. Developed specifically for professional Pro Stock teams.

All the big teams use them now..

Research it Matt... Yes they had conventional type clutches, but haven't in a couple years... Check out Speed Channel "Nascar Garage".. they had an entire episode on just this transmission topic a few weeks ago, Featuring the Hendrick and DEI inhouse Transmission builders.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

kinda hard to do "research" when you don't have cable. so things have changed in the last couple years.. last time I was in the pits was in '02. Last NASCAR race I had a scanner running, Dale Jr was bitching about his clutch slipping in lower gears.. that was at the spring '03 race in Dallas.

as for the hood, that's what I've seen and that's what I know. unless the rules have changed in the last couple years, they're running an OE hood. remove all the ribbing on them and they get pretty flimsy. last one I saw up close looked to me like it was an OE with the guts pulled out and some ribs tacked on to hold it together at 200mph.

don't be so quick to shoot the messenger man.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

Matt93SE said:


> kinda hard to do "research" when you don't have cable. .


don't need cable... you have the internet 

Okay you got me on the hood,,, my apologies.. it does start out as a OEM hood...as you said the supports are all ripped out.. then its shaved down thinner..

tranny..

Well I don't know what Dale Jr was saying, maybe the same "speak" term is still used.. the gears can still slip and get chewed up. You still have to shift it properly.. just no clutch pedal to press.

I know I read something about the Hendrick clutchless transmissions and how they choose the gears from track to track on nascar.com tech area...just can't find it.. no search in the tech area there..wierd..


Here are a few other links to check out... 

http://www.g-forcetransmissions.com/tran_gf2000.asp

http://www.jericoperformance.com/

http://www.edmunds.com/news/innovations/articles/46873/article.html


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