# How to FWD Drift!



## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

So for all of you non believers out there...

FWD DRIFTING IS POSSIBLE!!! 
NOTE***I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT DRIFTING IS VERY DANGEROUS. DO NOT ATTEMPT ANY OF THIS FOR YOUR OWN LIESURE!

FWD=Front Wheel Drive for the uninitiated

For the non believers...heres the proof!

How to do it?
This technique is very basic, pull the E-Brake or side brake to induce rear traction loss and balance drift through steering and throttle play. This can also be used to correct errors or fine tune drift angles. Main drift technique used in FWD vehicles.

Who does it?
Kyle Arai, 1989 Honda Civic.<---Professional drifter
And his drifts do not look like any ass dragging to me!

According to my understanding...
Drift: To cause a vehicle to exceed its tire’s limits of adhesion, exhibiting a lateral slip, resulting in an oversteered condition. 
As stated from "http://www.driftsession.com/glossary.htm"

This site gives you step by step on how to do it...And here is their method of FWD drifting...
http://www.driftsession.com/drift_techniques/ebrakedrift.htm

This site shows you actual diagrams of FWD drifting!!!!
http://www.driftclub.com/driftdiagrams.htm

Another article on FWD drifting!!!
http://www.godrift.org/article.php?id=61&cat=icars

Heres a place that teaches you the physics of drifting...
http://www.club4ag.com/faq and tech_pages/drifting_for_real.htm

More...tray drifting with FF...LOL!!!
http://www.4sconcepts.com/tech/ffdrift.htm

There is a person by the name of Kyle Arai who is also a professional ass dragger(lol) and drives a FWD Honda.
There was a photo of him in super street doing a drift with his FWD Honda! 

I mean...we can argue this till the end of eternity. But the fact is FWD can drift!!! A FWD might not be the best choice to drift with, but it is possible!! It's all a matter of who the driver is...and what they can do with their machine. 

Lots of people will argue this...but I am a solid believer and I think I have shown you guys enough evidence...it's up to you to decide now.

Now anyone believe me?
(POSTED TWICE)


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## megaseth (May 18, 2003)

you cant drift a FWD car. it may look like it, and they may say it is, but its not. it can only be done in a RWD or a AWD car using inertia.


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## Mcpaul66 (Jun 13, 2002)

UNISH25 said:


> *For the non believers...heres the proof!
> 
> How to do it?
> This technique is very basic, pull the E-Brake or side brake to induce rear traction loss and balance drift through steering and throttle play. This can also be used to correct errors or fine tune drift angles. Main drift technique used in FWD vehicles.
> *


So how does the rear end PUSH itself out? It doesn't. It may not look like ass dragging, but it is. 
THe only way to drift in FWD is in REVERSE. 

LOL Professional Drifter hahahaha


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

> LOL Professional Drifter hahahaha


hahah.. professional ASS slider

its true, you can't drift in fwd cars, pulling the e-brake and sliding the back end isn't drifting, its ass sliding thence you are sliding your back end out... to be able to drift you have to push you back end out through interia... no matter how you look at it, its not real drifting.... if you ever see someone really drift, they will either have a rwd or awd car.. the 240sx or silvia is a drifting car, the wrx is a drifting car, my 200sx is not a drifting car and never can be...


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## SuperAkuma (Jul 23, 2003)

there is no such thing as fwd driffing it is called sliding for fwd

the only way u can drift if u go backward... jk that wouldnt b driffing that would b krazy


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## SJLucky (May 25, 2003)

I thought this would be good but I was so dissappointed


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## Boromir (Oct 13, 2002)

LOL that dumb technique only works when you try to drift on sandy beaches or snow. not possible on road.


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## fugiot (Jun 27, 2003)

If you pull the E-brake really really hard, it's sorta possible on a road...but it's not very fun.


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## Nxtasy (Aug 9, 2003)

Its very possible, I can ass drag all day long, I get props from the drifters too...the e-brake technique works great for ass draging as long as you combine it with proper steering and throttle....


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

the only bad thing about ass draggin is it destroys your brakes but either way, its still not drifting...


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## blueboost (Jul 25, 2002)

i've been practicing some ass sliding lately. i keep spinning the car though and losing control (in a big wet parkinglot) its definately not drifting but its fun to try. how am I damaging my brakes psule?


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

doesn't ebraking your car destroy your brakes, thats what everyone has told me..


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## blueboost (Jul 25, 2002)

probably. I doubt it is GOOD for them. but its a nissan, you would probably have to do it for like 50,000 miles to cause a problem.


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

haha.. most likely.. nissans do last


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## megaseth (May 18, 2003)

i dont think the E-Brake locks the brakes. i might be wrong. i think it locked the rear axles.


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

thats what it does, but its not good for it...


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

megaseth said:


> *you cant drift a FWD car. it may look like it, and they may say it is, but its not. it can only be done in a RWD or a AWD car using inertia. *


Then I don't understand, what exactly is considered a "drift"?

According to my understanding...
Drift: To cause a vehicle to exceed its tire’s limits of adhesion, exhibiting a lateral slip, resulting in an oversteered condition. 
As stated from "http://www.driftsession.com/glossary.htm"

This site gives you step by step on how to do it...And here is their method of FWD drifting...
http://www.driftsession.com/drift_techniques/ebrakedrift.htm

This site shows you actual diagrams of FWD drifting!!!!
http://www.driftclub.com/driftdiagrams.htm

Another article on FWD drifting!!!
http://www.godrift.org/article.php?id=61&cat=icars

Heres a place that teaches you the physics of drifting...
http://www.club4ag.com/faq and tech_pages/drifting_for_real.htm

More...tray drifting with FF...LOL!!!
http://www.4sconcepts.com/tech/ffdrift.htm

There is a person by the name of Kyle Arai who is also a professional ass dragger(lol) and drives a FWD Honda.
There was a photo of him in super street doing a drift with his FWD Honda! 

I mean...we can argue this till the end of eternity. But the fact is FWD can drift!!! A FWD might not be the best choice to drift with, but it is possible!! It's all a matter of who the driver is...and what they can do with their machine. 

Lots of people will argue this...but I am a solid believer and I think I have shown you guys enough evidence...it's up to you to decide now.

Now anyone believe me?


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## blueboost (Jul 25, 2002)

> Lots of people will argue this...but I am a solid believer and I think I have shown you guys enough evidence...it's up to you to decide now.


join the darkslide


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

i know some might call it drifting, but it is something that some person decided to add to make it seem more possible for popular culture... this was never thought of until recently when they added on ass sliding to be drifting... there are many things that pop culture does to bring in different crowds even if it defeats the people... look at it like this.. can a rwd car do a donut, well yea, can a fwd car do a donut, not techinically but if you have motion and ebrake you car and do a 360, does that mean you can do donuts, only to some but its not really doin donuts..


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

blueboost said:


> *join the darkslide *


LOL! Darkslide?????


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## blueboost (Jul 25, 2002)

I was LMAO for some reason when I read that last bit about being a solid believer and solid evidence and it's up to you to decide now, like darth vader trying to convince luke to join the dark side or something so, darkslide, drifting thread, yadda yadda


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## megaseth (May 18, 2003)

you cant drift an FF car. those articles are a joke. the one from drift session isnt about FWD cars specifically, but it mentions that you can use an e-brake to "drift" into the turn. but you have less control as a RWD car, and its not a true drift. as dragging is the only way a FF car can do that. its just a power slide, but they dont like to call it that. if they call it drifting, people will think they're cool even though its just a regular powerslide.


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## Mcpaul66 (Jun 13, 2002)

Those articles are written for idiot ricers. I mean they actually had diagrams showing how to do an e-brake slide. LOL
If you can't figure out how to do an e-brake slide on your own, you're an idiot and shouldn't be trying this crap in the first place. 

Either way, that's all it is, an e-brake slide. They just call it FWD Drifting to make it sound cool to all the little ricers out there so they can go try it and wrap their cars around trees. 

I think I'll make up a stupid name for locking your brakes up. It'll be called Straight Drifting.
Funny thing is, if that did catch on, someone would then be posting on how to Straight Drift in a car with ABS.LOL


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## megaseth (May 18, 2003)

Hey, i found this article, its pretty cool...
www.howtostraightdrift.com


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

its only a term used to make people think they are doing something they really aren't.... techinically they are ass sliders, but if people call it drifting maybe more people will be interested in it... eventually leading to more people getting in accidents and getting hurt...


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## Nxtasy (Aug 9, 2003)

I have heard this argument over and over again on several forums, people all seem to have differant opinions...


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

Nxtasy said:


> *I have heard this argument over and over again on several forums, people all seem to have differantopinions... *


YUP! People have their own different opinions about everything...
Like religion, time travel, space etc..lol
Sometimes there are no right or wrong answers..


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

so does that mean i can drift with my moms fwd buick.... all i have to do is ebrake it to ass slide..


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## anthony jackson (Jul 16, 2002)

*Wtf?*

you people who think that a fwd car cant drift must be full of alot of shit! call it what you will, but when i watch the japaneese drifters, rear, or front wheel drive, they all use the ass drag to there advantage! the definanition was that drift was exceeding the tires adhesive limits and creating an oversteered situation! now you tell me! where in that defanition does it "exclude" the front wheel drive automobile! IT DOESNT! now if all you can get on here and say is "its not drifting because the back tires are just dragging" then aparentally you have never actually tried to do any type of research on the topic! I want some one to show me one definition, not pertaining to just rear wheel and all wheel drive, that says that drift is when you are being pushed around a turn by the rear wheels or inertia, which ever you please! so stop asking your friends, or cusins, and stop wathing thos damn movies that will have you believing you can jump a bridge in your car, and get on line and look at fwd drift! tell you what just go on yahoo, and do a search. "front wheel drive, drift racing"! see what comes up


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## go4broke44 (Jan 14, 2003)

the only problem with ass sliding is when you do it at high speeds, it creates flat spots on your rear tires, resulting in a bumpy ride. this is coming from an experienced ass-slider


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## go4broke44 (Jan 14, 2003)

technically it can be argued both ways, but the original drift is an overpowering of a rear wheel drive car, so that the back end comes around, to point the car in a better direction for a higher exit speed. the usual technique is to have a decent HP RWD car, and as you are coming into a turn, drop a gear and rev the engine past the point of smooth transfer from gear to gear, so that the back tires spin when the clutch is dumped, thus bringing the rear end around. if you look at drifting as a form of aligning the car for a better exit, then you can say that e-braking it is a form of drifting. another argument in favor of FWD is that the throttle needs to be used to balance the drift (more throttle to straighten it out, less throttle to let the rear come around alittle more)


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## sentra94xe (May 6, 2002)

*MERGING OF THREADS*

Anthony.... why did you start your own thread? This is already being discussed in another thread in this very same forum. You should have posted your rebuttal in that thread, not in a new one.

EDIT: I merged the 2 threads together, to keep it relative. No posts should have been lost. If it was lost, please let me know.


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

think of it like this.. if the word phat has become a word in the dictionary, the people cat say a fwd car and say it drifts.. all it is, is pop culture saying that fwd cars can drift and its becoming what they want to hear.. but if fwd cars can drift, then i guess be definition that means any car can be used as drifters... or is there goin to be specific car only allow to drift... so can i take a ford tauras, ass slide it around a curve and say i can fwd drift... im just saying, just because pop culture says it something, doens't mean its reality.. cuz if you want to be techinical if you can fwd drift, then my moms buick regal can be a drifter and i guess so can a ford mustang... 

oh yea, anthony jackson if anyone is full of shit its you.. just because you disagree with some opinions doesn't mean you got to flip out.. your prolly one of those people who think they are a fwd drifter.. i mean ass slider..


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

OK, here's my $0.02

FWD cars can drift. They can't "drift." Note the use of quotes to denote the increasingly popular "drifting" activity.

In a drift, you are merely loosing traction at the wheels and getting oversteer or a balanced 4 wheel drift. This can be done with the handbrake, by trail braking, by dropping the throttle or by using the pendulum effect in an FWD car. In a RWD car, the same factors can cause a drift, but there is one hugely important addition. A RWD car can produce power oversteer with the application of throttle.

This is a form of a drift, but it is really what "drifting" is meant to be - a display of power oversteer in an inferno of smoking tires, delicately balanced on the knife edge of spinning the car. Anything else is merely ass dragging.


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## go4broke44 (Jan 14, 2003)

well put, fcs, i was waiting for your opinion on the topic, since you seem to be the most knowledgeable on rally techniques and stuff like that


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

Well...if you guys wanna drift, not "drift", then theres links that show you how to do it. ( I posted it before)
But, I can never believe a person who says its not possible..


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## Mcpaul66 (Jun 13, 2002)

I agree with Psulemon's point about people just wanting it to be true so they can look cool or as though they know something. I mean look at this thread for proof. You basically have the more experienced guys using technical terms to point out how FWD drifting is not possible. Then you have all the people that want it to be true just flipping out and pointing to stupid websites.

But hey, those websites were really helpful. Do you have any that'll teach me to valve-lube my car? I mean change the oil?


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## go4broke44 (Jan 14, 2003)

i would say that fcs is going to be the most knowledgeable person on the subject, and I also know a great deal too. FWD drifting is possible, as the whole point of a drift is to better position your car through a turn, so that a smoother and quicker exit can be acheived. it can be a flashy way of taking a corner, as well as a more practical way to do it. it can most frequently be seen in rally events, some of which are FWD cars, like the Mazda protege rally car


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

Mcpaul66 said:


> *I agree with Psulemon's point about people just wanting it to be true so they can look cool or as though they know something. I mean look at this thread for proof. You basically have the more experienced guys using technical terms to point out how FWD drifting is not possible. Then you have all the people that want it to be true just flipping out and pointing to stupid websites.
> 
> But hey, those websites were really helpful. Do you have any that'll teach me to valve-lube my car? I mean change the oil?  *





UNISH25 said:


> *I mean...we can argue this till the end of eternity. But the fact is FWD can drift!!! A FWD might not be the best choice to drift with, but it is possible!! It's all a matter of who the driver is...and what they can do with their machine. *



Drifting is a demonstration of ultimate car control and balance. Feathering the throttle to keep the back end out in oversteer throughout a series of bends without having traction. The oversteer is provolked with a bit of a norweigan flick - turn away from the turn then apex the corner by turning in sharply while blipping the accelerator to lose traction at the rear. It may also be necessary to use the handbrake to give the rear wheels a helping hand To hold the drift throughout the turns needs precision steering and throttle sensitivity before flicking the car into the next bend to continue the drift. Drifiting being based around oversteer pretty much makes this an art for RWD, but FWD people can give it a go with either the handbrake or some heavy lift off oversteer (LOO), but you wont be able to hit the gas to lose traction at the rear again so will be unable to carry a string of turns off in a drift. The best drifters will not just oversteer the car into corners. All four wheels will be drifting. Keiichi Tsuchiya aka Dorikin (meaning Drift King) presents on Best Motoring and is considered a legend.


<sigh> So it's possible!!! But not the best choice! 
And I did my research very well on FWD drifting, before I post!


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## Mcpaul66 (Jun 13, 2002)

You'd have to have a VERY slick surface to make a FWD car slide by oversteering. And using the e-brake is pretty much called an e-brake slide.

I stand by my view that people just use the term "FWD drifitng" so they can act like their drifting in their FWD car. E-brake slides and drifting have been a part of racing forever, but lately since it's now cool to drift for no reason whatsoever, people all want in on the action. Pulling the e-brake in a turn and calling it FWD drifting is just some stupid way for people to try to fit in.


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

YUP! We can argue this till the end of eternity..
Hey you know...Japanese guys should be able to get a load of information on this more than us.
What does the drift king say about FWD driving? And please show proof..I tried searching, but found nothing!


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

aight, look at it like this, when i owned my subaru impreza me and we would whip it around turns and "drift" on dirt roads, but that neither says that i can drift or rally, cuz on dirt roads, you can whip the cars' rear end a lot but im still not drifting... but according to some of your opinions, i was actually drifting, since my back end was sliding and creating oversteer or does it only apply to asphault.. thats another thing is it doesnt say if it applies to a specific surface or what


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## nissmax88 (May 30, 2003)

I agree with psulemon. I used to take my 82 escort up in the mountains where there is a series of hairpin turns hit the turn going too fast pull the e-brake slide around almost nick the rocks on the inside of the turn and come out facing straight down the road. I don't know what that would or should be called but it was fun as hell. I guess from all the definitions on here it could be called drifting, I'd rather call it that than Ass Sliding. I'll just call it having fun in my beater.


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

Ok then...
Then if for simplicity's sake.
In engineering a thing is considered "accepted" if a professional people from the subject all agree to it!! 

Now if we could have someone on this thread search up on what the "drift king" has to say about FWD drfiting then we could put this thread to an end. And I am soooo sure this has been proposed as a question to him. Whateve the drift king says then I will agree with him. If someone could find some info about it. And please make sure the info is legit!
I searched and most of the websites that have come up are Japanese sites..
Thanks guys..


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

just because, some ones calls a guy the drift king, doesn't mean he really is.. its just a nick name that someone gave him... if someone called my the ralley king, does that really mean i am.. not really, its just a name that prolly a mag gave him like superstreet(they suck) and became a fad..


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

psulemon said:


> *just because, some ones calls a guy the drift king, doesn't mean he really is.. its just a nick name that someone gave him... if someone called my the ralley king, does that really mean i am.. not really, its just a name that prolly a mag gave him like superstreet(they suck) and became a fad.. *


LOL! You missed the whole point I was trying to make.
I mean...

A fact is accepted in society how?
By a person whose been there and done that...A person who has sufficient proof that it exists (aka A PROFESSIONAL at it!). Of course I know its a nickname!! But him and the other proffesional drifters are the only one who has any actual say in that FWD exists...If they all agree FWD exists, then it does. If they don't agree then it don't exist. If they argue like us, then I guess we gonna argue like this till the end...

So if it is possible, can someone find some more info on this. Not from forums, but from actual professionals who give their personal opinion on it!


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

i see your point, but its so vague you can't really define if fwd ass sliding is drifting or just ass sliding.. its not limited to surface and what type of fwd cars... but if you want to base it upon just whipping the rear out by oversteer, then you can take a pinto on a dirt road, hit a curve and whip the back out and call it drifting.. i dont consider what i did with my impreza drifter or even ass sliding, but it was fun as shit


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## nissmax88 (May 30, 2003)

psulemon said:


> *i see your point, but its so vague you can't really define if fwd ass sliding is drifting or just ass sliding.. its not limited to surface and what type of fwd cars... but if you want to base it upon just whipping the rear out by oversteer, then you can take a pinto on a dirt road, hit a curve and whip the back out and call it drifting.. i dont consider what i did with my impreza drifter or even ass sliding, but it was fun as shit *



word. Lets just call it Ass Drifting or tossin it or some other name and just use that to end this. Or we could continue this with suggestions of things to call it (don't use mine they're pretty dumB).


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

> Lets just call it Ass Drifting or tossin


i agree to that...


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## mrfox (Mar 11, 2003)

You know, instead of reinventing the wheel and creating a set of vocabuary no one can agree on... 

Lift throttle oversteer
Trail braking oversteer
Power oversteer
Rear wheel lock-up

These are the technical terms used in professional racing and engineering. They may not sound as exciting as the 
"drift" slang, but are universally understandable to anyone with knowledge of vehicle dynamics. Race cars and racing drivers have been going sideways since the beginning of motorsport, well before any "drifters" definition of what a "drift" is suppose to be.

Lastly, FWD cars can do all but the third in the list above.

Edited for grammar.


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## nissmax88 (May 30, 2003)

awwww... Thats the one I liked too


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## WhiteFox (Sep 4, 2002)

I slide my car sideways on paved roads all the time (well, not as frequently anymore..) without the use of my E-brake; it won't even keep the car from rolling on a level surface. 
While not a full-on 4-wheel slide, at higher speeds there's no other way to take on a curve as fast nor a better way to align the car for the next. You just have to know the traction limits and how to manipulate them.
The only drawback, I say, is having to change your tires as frequently as your oil.
But damn if it ain't fun.


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## Jeff (Oct 17, 2002)

Its possible to be going a fast enough speed and tap the (foot, not ebrake) brakes in a turn to get the ass end sliding around. I can do it. *shrug*


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

MrEous said:


> *Its possible to be going a fast enough speed and tap the (foot, not ebrake) brakes in a turn to get the ass end sliding around. I can do it. *shrug* *


It's reffered to as trail braking.


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## Jeff (Oct 17, 2002)

fcsmotorsports said:


> *It's reffered to as trail braking. *


I would have never referred to it as drifting...
...I was just pointing out to the other 'handbrake only' people that its possible to get the same action without the handbrake.


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

I was just pointing out that there is a technical term for it.


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## javierb14 (Jul 9, 2002)

not the fastest way around a corner....it just scrubbed off momentum/speed in my b14, but good ol lift throttle oversteer in a FF is *very real* 

right click, save as
integra drift on a road course


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

"trail-braking"... sounds cool either way....

oh, and in RWD cars, it's "power-sliding"... 

everyone drifts...
my dog drifts on tile floors...
i drift on wet ones....
my bike drifts all the time, and when i'm not pedalling, it's a "no-wheel-drive"...
continents drift...
continentals drift... especially when they're wet.

seriously, the argument over terminology is pointless... i could say i don't consider it real cola if it isn't coca-cola...    ...but no one who likes pepsi would agree with me... let's all just get along and say that it's cool whichever way you do it... even if you do it with a honda..


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## Jeff (Oct 17, 2002)

fcsmotorsports said:


> *I was just pointing out that there is a technical term for it. *


Ok cool...thanks!


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

megaseth said:


> *you cant drift a FWD car. it may look like it, and they may say it is, but its not. it can only be done in a RWD or a AWD car using inertia. *


Correct. FWD can mimic drifting but they cannot actually drift as you have to use the rear wheels to steer the car. FWD cars just drag the ass around. Now, FWD can sure as do grip and do it very well in the mountains. Thats where FWD people should be focusing instead of on the chimerical idea that their cars are even capable of drifting.


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

UNISH25 said:


> *YUP! We can argue this till the end of eternity..
> Hey you know...Japanese guys should be able to get a load of information on this more than us.
> What does the drift king say about FWD driving? And please show proof..I tried searching, but found nothing! *


You want a Japanese perspective? OK, you asked. FWD cars can't drift and thats why you will never see one in D1 or any drifting event of merit. Real drifters don't buy FWD cars nor will they touch them. You can think you're cool ass sliding with FWD but the fact is that few quality RWD cars are in the USA yet you are full of FWD and thats pretty much all you have. Drifting is the new fad to follow so the plethora of FWD kids don't want to feel left out.

You asked for a Japanese perspective and you got it. Ask any drifter, and real drifter and they'll tell you that you simply can't do it with FWD.


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

whatever... 

you simply can't *power-slide* in an FWD, true... but simple drifting, yes you can...

and yes, FWD sucks for show-drifting, but hand-brake and breakout turns are real and helpful on FWD.

few quality RWD? you mean few Japanese RWD in the USA... last i checked, the Corvettes and Vipers were among the most 'quality' RWD on the planet... of course, the lighter japanese cars make much better drifters.

FWD can drift... it just isn't as pretty, that's why none of the pros do it...


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## Jeff (Oct 17, 2002)

niky said:


> *-whatever...
> you simply can't power-slide in an FWD, true... but simple drifting, yes you can...
> -and yes, FWD sucks for show-drifting, but hand-brake and breakout turns are real and helpful on FWD.
> -few quality RWD? you mean few Japanese RWD in the USA... last i checked, the Corvettes and Vipers were among the most 'quality' RWD on the planet... of course, the lighter japanese cars make much better drifters.
> -FWD can drift... it just isn't as pretty, that's why none of the pros do it...  *


I definitely agree with you on that Niky


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Man, you kids really need to be part of this new fad. No, the simple fact of hte matter is, American kids want to drift like over here...but since you can't get real cars that are ideal for this, you have to try to use your FWD cars that simply can't do it. 

As for the "quality" comment - it was in regards to the plethora of choices we have here. Yes, the US has some choices but their drawbacks cannot be overcome (except the Mustang, especially with Steeda parts as parts are accessible, parts/car are cheap in plentiful, and the Mustang has a good balance...nice choice for American drifters).

People argue about this online all the time but it doesn't change the fact that FWD cars cannot drift. You can pretend and mimic the activity but you cannot do it. 

As for Viper being able to drift? How many were ever made and thus able for mass consumption? And, its front heavy and sucks for drifting. They spin out easily. Doable but too hard and the car is expensive. Corvettes? Doable, but same problem with cost and availability. And, their general quality is known to be quite low.



Mustang? Definately but mullet heads don't really get into drifting so the Mustang languishes as a great potential drift car. Mark at the D1 challenge back in July proved what a Mustang can do. Crown Vic? Doable but suspension tuning parts?????? 

You can keep your fantasy that FWD cars can really drift but the fact remains that they cannot. And, the reason why drifters here in Japan don't use FWD is not because they ain't pretty. Its because they can't drift. Fact. People don't want facts or a Japanese perspective? Don't ask.


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## Jeff (Oct 17, 2002)

*raises hand*
I wasn't looking for a Japanese perspective.

But since you posted I did a quick search on Yahoo.
http://www.streetracing.org/japan/drift/drift1.htm
...nice site...explains one method of drifting as such...


> The second technique is used by a few drifters in rear wheel drives, but is the only way you can really drift a front wheel drive. You have to use the side brake. A front wheel drive can not whip it's tail out because the tires are being driven in the front as opposed to the rear. So when approaching a turn you pull the side brake to cause traction loss. And the rest is pretty much the same except that it's much harder to take more than one turn with a front wheel driver


Oh...and an alternative to a more expensive rear-drive in the US would definitely be a 240. Tell me it doesn't have a good drifting layout...


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

haha... Japanese perspectives... okay, okay... pop-drifting won't accept FWD, got it.  ...didn't ask either, that person already left the thread. 

I don't CARE that FWD isn't considered pure drifiting... if it happens, it happens, if it can be done, well, i'm happy... i know i'm never going through a corner ass-backwards like a sylvia... but that won't stop me from enjoying the feeling...

i never said Corvettes or Vipers could drift... i just said they were quality cars... and point taken... you meant quality DRIFTERS... (sorry MrEous, the 240 is japanese, too!!!)... 

but yes, i agree, the mustang, with all its dynamic faults, would make a great drifter... but the WEIGHT on american muscle precludes japanese style nutso drifts... 

and we already agree with you on the part that FWD drift isn't pretty... just don't say that they CAN'T, because they _technically_ CAN... the definition of "drifting" includes a bit more than RWD powerslides... it's just that "drifting" in an FWD doesn't really get you much of anything besides kicks.


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## Jeff (Oct 17, 2002)

Its cool Niky...I was just thinking of cars that were available in the US...not just 'American only' cars. But our choices for American only cars are very slim and I concur on the Mustang idea.

I just don't know too many people that would rather slide slowly through a corner sideways than to go Autocrossing.


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

My final comment for you kids who think that FWD can drift. String together 2-3 corners (more would only further embarass you) and try to maintain speed and the ability the slide through the second corner. I'll just go ahead and tell you that you cannot do it in a FWD.....period. And, this is why Japanese drifters don't use FWD. ITs not about the lack of style. Its simply due to the lack of ability for FWD to drift.

You can run like a lemming into this new fad if you want, but you'll have to regret all the money you wasted on an inferior platform and sell the car. You want to be a drifter, you'll have to get a RWD/AWD. That is simply a fact.

And yes, the Mustang is a good choice for drifting if you want an American car. I wasn't referring to the cars available in America, but rather American cars.


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

hehe... they're all gone... and I'm with MrEous on this... i'd rather go autocrossing...

and i did say that "'drifting' in an FWD doesn't really get you much of anything besides kicks"... meaning it's not the fastest way through turns... something that is also true (to SOME extent) on RWD cars, but much much more noticeable on FWD.

haha... lemmings.... no, i'm not running like a lemming for this new fad... i value my tires too much!

doesn't mean i don't like watching it... and i'm still going to hit that handbrake sometimes...


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## metal_bender (Aug 15, 2003)

*Front whell Drive Drift*

technically speaking, as a mfg engineer, front wheel drive drift should work as well as any rear well driven vehicle, if not better. I havn't done the homework on the subject, but the physics is simple to understand, "first in first out". I'm referring to loading the wheels for any given turn and how the engine load is applied to a weighted front as opposed to a weightless rear, this shows up best under full acceleration in turns.


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## mrfox (Mar 11, 2003)

Well, in ME speak, oversteer is defined as when % slip of the rear wheels is greater than % slip of the front wheels. % slip is propotional to the amount of tractive force each tire can provide.

To induce oversteer, you either: 

Increase the tractive loading of the rear wheels - throttle(RWD) or e-brake. 

or 

Decrease total available traction on the rear wheels - increase rear roll stiffness, weight transfer from deceleration, etc. In this case, tractive loading is constant, but % slip is increased because total available traction is reduced.

As someone pointed out earlier, anything with wheels can oversteer: bicycles, airplanes on icy taxiways, etc... and FWD cars.


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

I'd say that both drifting and autocross are very fun. I'd enjoy either when the opportunity arose. Drifting will eat your tires and most likely you WILL crash at some point.

As for FWD not being able to drift as well as a RWD, its nto about first in-first out. Its about the ability to keep momentum and when you do an e-brake slide, you will lose momentum and the front wheels simply aren't capable of maintaining momentum or even gaining any to be able to drift through the next corner. I'm not trying to sound like a drifting expert, but when you see enough Civics try more than one corner, you'll see just how laughable to idea is that FWD cars can drift.

BTW: ass dragging can be fun as hell! I LOVED doing it all the time in my Esteem. Was I drifting? No. Was I having a good time? Yes I was.

From my experience, so many people want to follow the latest fad (APC exists soley due to lemmings running for the next "cool" whatever rice part) and the US is full of people with FWD cars that they have dumped a lot of money into. There is a lot of emotional investment as well. So naturally, these people get offended and defensive when they learn they can't participate in this new fad and won't be "cool" to their peers. Can't have that, so they create these myths that FWD cars can do what they simply cannot. Buying another car would mean starting over and since they think they are already at the top of the heap, they won't do that.

The most amusing thing is-is these same people ignore grip tohge style (driving fast in the mountains without losing traction) which is quite popular over here but there is no media (ie InitialD or Option race series) that pushes it. FWD cars can and do own in this area. In fact, this is the one area where Skyline owners I know won't challenge a tuned Civic. 

So, instead of wasting so much energy trying to convince themselves and others that FWD cars can do what they simply cannot, they should focus on an area of strength for their platform instead of a weakness. But, to be "cool," grip will be overlooked.......


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## SR20 Who Knew? (Jul 29, 2003)

scourge said:


> *
> BTW: ass dragging can be fun as hell! I LOVED doing it all the time in my Esteem. Was I drifting? No. Was I having a good time? Yes I was.
> *


Thats why I do it. Its just good clean fun.


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## Galimba1 (Aug 16, 2002)

megaseth said:


> *i dont think the E-Brake locks the brakes. i might be wrong. i think it locked the rear axles. *


wow, I didn't know my FWD Sentra had a rear axle. As far as I know, the E-brake is connected to the sentra's rear drum brakes, which are connected to the rear suspension. No CV axles back there.


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## megaseth (May 18, 2003)

Uh, not all FWD cars have independent rear suspension. they were made with solid rear axles too. and we did go into the e-brake thing a few posts later.


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

scourge said:


> *You want a Japanese perspective? OK, you asked. FWD cars can't drift and thats why you will never see one in D1 or any drifting event of merit. Real drifters don't buy FWD cars nor will they touch them. You can think you're cool ass sliding with FWD but the fact is that few quality RWD cars are in the USA yet you are full of FWD and thats pretty much all you have. Drifting is the new fad to follow so the plethora of FWD kids don't want to feel left out.
> 
> You asked for a Japanese perspective and you got it. Ask any drifter, and real drifter and they'll tell you that you simply can't do it with FWD. *


Well I know thats your opinion. But where is your proof to back up what you claim? 

A.) How do I know what you claim is true?
B.) How do I know if your japanese or not? Anyone can be whoever they want on the internet.

Proof needed:: I Need an OFFICIAL website that has a Japanese 
PROFESSIONAL drifter saying FWD drifting is not possible!

I showed you proof of one person named Kyle Arai that does FWD drifting with his Honda Civic. So now you have to show how its not possible. Please do a rebuttal with stronger evidence!


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

niky said:


> *whatever...
> 
> you simply can't power-slide in an FWD, true... but simple drifting, yes you can...
> 
> ...


Yup, this is what I've been saying too. Thanks for the backup niky!


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

mrfox said:


> *Well, in ME speak, oversteer is defined as when % slip of the rear wheels is greater than % slip of the front wheels. % slip is propotional to the amount of tractive force each tire can provide.
> 
> To induce oversteer, you either:
> 
> ...


UUUMmmmmmmm...Thank God I studied EE!


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Now, if you would only study drifting, you would learn that in real life, FWD cars CANNOT drift. All you need is at least two curves relatively close together and you will fail every single time to try to make both corners. Your enthusiasm is admirable...but its misplaced in an unsupportable fantasy.


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## javierb14 (Jul 9, 2002)

it is possible to make the rear feel "light" and get a FF to rotate in the corners though.....dont know if u consider this drifting, but its done all the time.


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## WhiteFox (Sep 4, 2002)

Alot of FWD cars are not high-performance machines. I'm sure that with better grip and more power than stock that drifting becomes less useful.

Try going fast around turns on crappy 13" tires.. 
I'm sure you'll agree..
Keeping full traction to *all* the wheels is NOT going to result in a faster turn.

Just fyi, I've been driving this same sentra, on the same size wheels, in the same twisty-ass roads in the mountains, since 1996. 
I'm not trying to impress my friends or follow a 'fad' or anything.
Not around EVERY curve, but sometimes *it just works better.*


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Twisty mountain roads - GRIP! Now, thats badass too. Few people know about though because its not the current new fad.


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## mrfox (Mar 11, 2003)

Twisty mountain road + understeer = hello mountain!


















Its not my car...


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## De La Rocha (Apr 4, 2003)

DAMN! That's the cleanest S13 I've ever seen, paint looks brand new.

-Matt


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

how the hell do you get UNDERsteer on a RWD? that guy must have been going assfast... or it could have been really icy...


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## mrfox (Mar 11, 2003)

niky said:


> *how the hell do you get UNDERsteer on a RWD? that guy must have been going assfast... or it could have been really icy...  *


That is the point! You can understeer any car, FWD or RWD, just as you can oversteer any car, FWD or RWD. All it takes is the proper combination of steering, brakes, throttle, and weight transfer.

Ohh... you walked right into that one.


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## WhiteFox (Sep 4, 2002)

'GRIP'.

The above statement is not an option with 13" tires, unless your definition of going fast around a bend is at 20 mph. 

Also a point to consider: Tire deformation. 
It's a very big factor in high-profile tires.


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

oversteering alone is not drifting.


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## mrfox (Mar 11, 2003)

Smoky Rhodes, the granddaddy of opposite-lock FWD driving

Circa 1967


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## Slayer2003 (Jun 4, 2003)

MINI COOPERS ARE THE SHIT but anyway, i cant believe this has gone on as long as it has..........amazing.......


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

hehe... Mini Coopers are the shit... just watched the italian job a while back... ever catch that Brit who did the Mini slip and slide demos... cool... not as cool as open road drifting, but cool nonetheless.

BTW, i KNOW you can understeer in a RWD (should have said silvia)... it's just so absurd for it to happen on that car, it being the most tail-happy in the world...


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Although its impossible for Minis to drift due to being FWD, they are still fun as hell. Did you know that here in Japan, Minis have been sold all the way up to present time. Can't import a 1996* Mini to the USA but it'd sure be nice to have one.

*Yes, they look just like the ones from the 60s! Tiny and corner like on rails. Bad ass. See, people who want to create this fantasy that FWD cars can drift continue to overlook the amazing abilities that they can have in other areas. Minis ROCK!


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

hehe... stop ragging on us FWDrivers... let us dream...


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Like I said above, FWD car simply cannot drift. BUT.....BUT, one with a well tuned suspension can stomp a lot of ass in grip. I have a friend on Oki with a Skyline pumping out over 800hp and he told me he won't challenge or accept a challenge from a team of Civics that rule in tohge grip. FWD is an inferior platform for drift and 1/4mile but that doesn't mean they are 100% shit. 

Just gotta find where you can excel. AutoX is one place that comes to mind. Just because you guys can't drift doesn't mean that you guys can't have fun. And, having fun is what matters....not trying to impress other people.


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

i'm not trying to impress you...  ...i'll ownZor your ass in AutoX!   

yah, it's all about how much fun you're having... and i definitely have fun whenever i drive up into the mountains for the weekend... 

hehe... you've got a GTS 4? is that one 4WD or RWD? There's one for sale here now, for around $12,000... think it's worth it? It's Tempting... (For comparison, a secondhand Sentra 97' costs around half that much here.)... but parts would be a bitch.


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

GTS4 is AWD (like a GTR) but with the RB20DET engine. Good handling but slow when compared to a GTR. I love it and I don't want to sell it but I'm moving. If its in good condition, its worth looking at. 

And yeah, the way my sspension is set up right now, I have little doubt that you would stomp my ass in an AutoX race. But, its all about fun and thats all that matters. Who cares if its the new cool thing to do or not? Life is short...enjoy it.


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

oh shit, you leaving japan?... "ye have seen the promised land and now ye must depart?" hie!


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Its only temporary. "I shall return....." July 2004, I'm back baby!


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

LOL... good luck to you, General MacArthur... get a GT-R next time...


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## SkylinegtrR313 (Jul 21, 2004)

hey


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## danifilth (May 14, 2003)

please dont revive old threads if all your doing is going to say hey or add to your post count somehow.Go to OFF TOPIC thats where the whoring is at.


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## Gimp (Jun 9, 2002)

danifilth said:


> please dont revive old threads if all your doing is going to say hey or add to your post count somehow.Go to OFF TOPIC thats where the whoring is at.


AMEN!! *CLOSED!!!*


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