# B&G Coilovers VS TEIN SS



## LIUSPEED (May 29, 2002)

*B&G Coilovers VS TEIN SS Coilovers*

what is the benfits of both disregarding price.

i know that squeezinse just recently bought his and i am considering them for they seem a bit better than the TEIN SS but i want the suspension Gurus to guide and opinionate on them.










B&G Coils

and










TEIN SS


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## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

I'm not sure anyone has them for the B14's...I think the main difference between them is that the SS's are manually adjustable and the B&G's adjust based off a butterfly valve within the strut.

I can elaborate more once these are installed.

MattB.


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## LIUSPEED (May 29, 2002)

ok well keep me updated on this matt...

other gurus please do your best to help me out on this.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Well,
One advantage to the double spring is how the shock responds to small undulations. By having 2 springs with different rates, smaller bumps which would hit with a fast upward velocity will be absorbed by the smaller spring. This is useful in touring car racing when cars are rounding a corner with the weight of the car and the g-forces pushing the car, and then the car hits the little white and red curb. It doesn't upset the balance as oppsoed to one spring. Of course single spring units are not coiled with a universal rate. It usually varies.

Seth


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## LIUSPEED (May 29, 2002)

that makes sense...

i know patt said something about the BG arent manually adjustable and the TEIN SS are..


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## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

Well, I can't say what tein SS's feel like when driving but after replacing the GC/AGX combo with the B&G's and Cusco camber plates the steering response alone warrants the upgrade. The ride is nice. With the shortened strut design it seems that the car actually wants to ride lower then normal and believe it or not, actually rides smoother when the car is slammed. I'll have pics and everything once I get new tires put on, alignment and corner balancing then I can also give a more thurrow(sp?) review.


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

what are the prices of the B&G?


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## wadegreene (Jan 12, 2003)

Do you have the website for B&G? What spring rates do they come with?

Thanks,
Wade


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## danifilth (May 14, 2003)

Hey Mossy has them check him out at:www.mossyperformance.com
Now Im thinkin about these.


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## LIUSPEED (May 29, 2002)

man so tempted... so very tempted to get them now.


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## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

danifilth said:


> Hey Mossy has them check him out at:www.mossyperformance.com
> Now Im thinkin about these.


I can hook you up with someone who can get them for 986 plus about 35 shipping. I think he said only two sets left so let me know. Only serious inquiries please as I don't want the guy bombarded with "i'm not sure I'll call you back" types of questions.


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## danifilth (May 14, 2003)

sorry bro but I just got done recieving my new Prokits all I need now is AGXs.But Liuspeed needs some so let him know.Damn thats like 1/2 off what Greg is sellin....................


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## McLaren F1 2003 (Jan 2, 2003)

dont count out the ss's though there liu...the steering and handling is tight and very responsive, even when i was riding on 10 (highest setting is 16) it wasnt bumpy, it was still kinda smooth


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

I have questions for you guys looking at the B+G stuff. You should seriously consider the answers and compare to the Teins. Do you know the spring rates? How much are the dampers shortened compared to stock? Do they offer camber plates? If you ever decide to change spring rates can you A.) even get different rates and B.) will the damper valving handle different rates. There is even more to consider, but thats a good start. I will tell you about the Teins

Spring rates: Front 336 lbs/in Rear 280 lbs/in 

Front dampers are over 2" shorter, rears over .5" shorter

Tein offers camber plates and solid rear upper mounts(similar to Motiviational Eng.)

Tein offers different rate springs and different leangths.

The dampers will handle a spring rate change of 112lbs/in either stiffer or softer.


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## LIUSPEED (May 29, 2002)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> I have questions for you guys looking at the B+G stuff. You should seriously consider the answers and compare to the Teins. Do you know the spring rates? How much are the dampers shortened compared to stock? Do they offer camber plates? If you ever decide to change spring rates can you A.) even get different rates and B.) will the damper valving handle different rates. There is even more to consider, but thats a good start. I will tell you about the Teins
> 
> Spring rates: Front 336 lbs/in Rear 280 lbs/in
> 
> ...


im gonna email bg about that


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## LIUSPEED (May 29, 2002)

ok i just got off the phone with BG sales and asked them about the BG Coilovers

and asked the questions that patt stated above.

this is what they said :

spring rates are : 393 lbs front 112 lb helper springs ( the small ones ) , 280 lb 112 helper

damper length vs stock: no idea but auto adjusting depending on car speeds and guarenteed shorter than stock

camber plates : no because design was for street performance and customers some complain about noise.

Spring Rates changeable : yes 

Damper valves handle change in spring rates : too stiff cause out of dampening range which causes too rough of ride

best for weekend track or hit track minimum .. more street performance than major track performance

basically these are great for weekend track warriors and still want their car to have a nice ride .


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## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

Good info Liuspeed.

If you already have the Teins then why not just install them?

If you however want the hook up on the B&G's PM me and I'll give you the info.

Matt


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

LIUSPEED said:


> ok i just got off the phone with BG sales and asked them about the BG Coilovers
> 
> and asked the questions that patt stated above.
> 
> ...



Rates: Understeer city. Period.

Damper length vs. stock. This is the number one most important aspect of performance suspension for the B14! You need to know this! It is important for determining how much to lower your car and still have good ride/performance.

What? No camber plates? To much noise. Bull-shit. My Tein plates make absolutly no noise. Without the plates adjusting camber after lowering the car(B14) is impossible to do the "right way". Camber bolts suck! Period. Slotting the struts is "so-so" in my book and if you do it you can say goodbye to the warranty on those nice new coilovers.

Interchangeable rates: Score one point for the BG stuff. Did they tell you what rates you can get?

"Damper valves handle change in spring rates : too stiff cause out of dampening range which causes too rough of ride" 
Not the correct answer for my question. You need to ask how well the valving handles rate changes and what is the effective spring rate range for the dampers. ie, how stiff is too stiff and how soft is to soft. BTW if what you wrote here is the anwer they gave you then someone doesnt know shit about suspension. Ride stiffness is subjective, what really happens when rates are too stiff for dampers is the ride get bouncy and uncontrolable. This was discussed in great length in the "eibach problems" thread.

With the info you have relayed from them to here I would say that the BG stuff is low on the man on the poll as far as coilovers/damper kits go these days. I like the idea of helper springs included, but I dont think they will over come the shortcommings of the kit. If I(Tein SS owner) was that worried about the helper springs I could get a set for my SS's.

Helper springs. I know a good deal about suspension, but I am no expert. I think the helpers springs work differently than sethwas stated. Think about it. With rates of 112lbs/in I belive they will be tottaly compressed and usless when the car is A.) Static(standing still), and B.) under suspension compression( hitting bumps, ect). I belive helper springs only help keep the main spring in place when the suspension is drooping(extending) and when the its droops to the point where the travel of the damper exceeds the length of the main spring.


I am not trying to bash the kit or call owners of the kit stupid for buying. Far from it. Just giving you the 411 

*edit, hey Liu its not really a big deal, but Pat is spelled with one "T" in my name not two.


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

BTW, you can get a kick ass geek toy for the B14 Teins. The EDFC. You can adjust the damper valving from in the driver seat and you can save presets.


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## LIUSPEED (May 29, 2002)

well that what the sales guys told me..

for the strut size they told me they dont konw cuz it made in europe and they dont manufacture it and they said that they wont open a box and measure it ( which i find kinda stupid ).

camber plates i think the guy dont really know what he talkin about on that.

spring rates he told me any rate that BG springs have...

all i know is you hafta find out from them more cuz that all i had time for when i called.


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## McLaren F1 2003 (Jan 2, 2003)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> BTW, you can get a kick ass geek toy for the B14 Teins. The EDFC. You can adjust the damper valving from in the driver seat and you can save presets.


too bad you have to modify your hood for that, or id get it...


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## nismo-vzr (Sep 14, 2003)

I concur on what Pat said about the helper springs. It's just that nothing more. 
Just buy the Tein basic Lui and save the rest of the money for the camber plates. :thumbup:


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## nismo-vzr (Sep 14, 2003)

McLaren F1 2003 said:


> too bad you have to modify your hood for that, or id get it...


It's not really that bad. just 1 hole about 1 1/2 dia. on each side of the hood. another plus on this mod is...your hood will be a little lighter. :crazy:


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## McLaren F1 2003 (Jan 2, 2003)

nismo-vzr said:


> It's not really that bad. just 1 hole about 1 1/2 dia. on each side of the hood. another plus on this mod is...your hood will be a little lighter. :crazy:


do you have the edfc?


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## nismo-vzr (Sep 14, 2003)

McLaren F1 2003 said:


> do you have the edfc?



No I don't. I took some measurements and came up with a plan. This will be 
my next mod. I'm working on a radiator shroud right now since they don't make one for our cars.


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## LIUSPEED (May 29, 2002)

well the thing im considering this is because that matt ( squeezinse ) can get me a killer deal on these .. alot cheaper than the SS...

i dont like the basics cuz ive ridden in it and it just not as comfortable as the SS can be.

so now im debating about if someone else can call up BG and get more info about these.


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## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

Liu, I'll be able to give you a better Idea of how they ride next week. I have new tires coming in by Tuesday and then I'll be doing the alignment and such and I'll post my opinions.


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## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

Well, over the last 3 weeks I've been working on improving the basic handling of my car. In essence I started over.

Previously I had Ground Control Coilovers and KYB/AGX struts running with Toyo Tires. This setup was ok but as we all know because B14's have such limited suspension travel I blew two sets of front struts. Not only that but with my car in particular the springs would actually flop around when hitting bumps and then "clap" back into place. This proved very annoying especially when trying to listen for other things going on with your car. Sucky. I was also going through tires as the negative camber was killing me with that part not being able to be adjusted enough to compensate for how low I like to drive the car.

So I replaced the Ground Control KYB setup with a setup of TUV approved full B&G S3 Sport Suspension coilovers. I also opted to install Cusco front camber plates which just happend to mount directly to the coilovers with no fuss whatsoever. Needless to say the setup was much improved with no noises, improved steering response (lighter as opposed to heavier).

But now I was driving with a nice suspension totally untuned and on badly negative cambered out tires. So, I purchased 4 new Kumho Ecsta MX's for my 17's from Tirerack. I had Costco mount and balance all four and I kept one of the better of the bad tires to put on a fifth wheel for a full spare. Thankfully I had that full spare as during the balancing one of my rims was found to be slightly bent so that's the spare for now.

With the new tires and new suspension things were good but I knew the alignment sucked and the camber was all out of wack so the next day I scheduled a corner balancing and alignment at Speedware Motorsports in Redmond, WA. So without further ado the stats are below. I had them setup the car for Performance street as I don't really track the car yet but I do consider myself somewhat aggressive. Also, the rear of our car's can't be adjusted as it's not independent but rather a rear beam axle. And I don't plan on doing the bend the rear beam thing. Comment if you want.

Alignment specs:

Left Front Right Front
Before After Before After
Camber: -.9 -1.5 -2.2 -1.7
Caster: 1.9 1.9 1.7 1.7
Toe: -.74 .05 -.77 .05

Before After
Cross Camber: 1.3 .2 
Cross Caster: .2 .2
Total Toe: -1.51 .09

Corner Balancing specs:

LF RF
Weight: 951 Weight: 891
Ride Height: 23 3/8 Ride Height: 23 1/2

LR RR
Weight: 600 Weight: 546
Ride Height: 23 3/16 Ride Height: 23 1/4

Total: 2987 with driver and 5th wheel spare (I'm not a small guy)

Front: 1841 61.6%
Cross: 1492 50.0%
Right: 1436 48.0%

Overall I didn't really get to put the car to the test yet but even just driving around town the car feels a ton better. I can also take corners without the tires squeeling which kind of surprised me. If you can get your car corner balanced I highly suggest it. I noticed a huge difference just in the way the car sits and while driving it's even better. The suspension itself is pretty tight. Although I don't have the dampering adjustment like the Tein's I'm happy with what I got with the B&G coilovers.

For those wondering what kind of car this is.... http://www.mackeydesigns.com/matt.htm


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Very good post. One question though. On your weights... Front 61.6% Rear 48.0%, do I not understand corner weights or is that number off??? 109.6 % seems weird to me. BTW I come up with 2988 total.

Good alignment specs, If It were me I would run a little more neg camber. I have ran -1.7deg myself and find no real tire wear difference now that I run 2.25-2.50 deg.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

The tender springs on that kit have weird rates when you consider those of the main springs. I think it'd be interesting to talk to some of the guys who selected the springs for this kit.


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

ReVerm said:


> The tender springs on that kit have weird rates when you consider those of the main springs. I think it'd be interesting to talk to some of the guys who selected the springs for this kit.


Tender springs dont really affect the cars handling, they just hold the main spring in place when the suspension is fully extended. I dont think there is anything wrong with those rates.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> Tender springs dont really affect the cars handling, they just hold the main spring in place when the suspension is fully extended. I dont think there is anything wrong with those rates.


Are you saying that tender springs hold down the main springs during full droop? Or am I misinterpreting what you're saying?

I only ask because of the strange rates of the "helper" springs. 112 lbs/ft seems way too high for helper springs on a street car, so I'm assuming that they're really supposed to function as tender springs (which are different from helper springs). I just wanted to know what exactly you were saying.

Thanks.


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## mbanks21 (Jun 1, 2003)

Anyone interested in B&G coilovers check out here


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