# Cam Removal



## 94 LE pusher (Jan 6, 2005)

Hey guys, Ive been trying to remove my cams so I can reach my head bolts to do a rebuild on my KA24DE. Now i have removed all the caps that secure the cams and I have also removed the chain tensioner, but the chain still has tension and I cant remove the cams. Any suggestions on what to do next? 

Thanks in Advance


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## trmn8r (Apr 16, 2005)

94 LE pusher said:


> Hey guys, Ive been trying to remove my cams so I can reach my head bolts to do a rebuild on my KA24DE. Now i have removed all the caps that secure the cams and I have also removed the chain tensioner, but the chain still has tension and I cant remove the cams. Any suggestions on what to do next?
> 
> Thanks in Advance


did you unbolt the cam sprockets


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## Nismo240 (Jul 24, 2004)

i'm currently doing the timing chain in my SR, and all i did was kind of wiggle the sprocket out of the chain with the cams still attached.


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## 94 LE pusher (Jan 6, 2005)

trmn8r said:


> did you unbolt the cam sprockets


Yeah I did but they are really tough to get off the cam, I still haven't got them off yet, but I did unbolt them.


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## 94 LE pusher (Jan 6, 2005)

how do you get the cam sprockets off?


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## Nismo240 (Jul 24, 2004)

i didn't take mine off, but there is a spot behind the sprocket on the cam to put an open ended wrench to hold it.


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## OchnofConcrete (Jan 7, 2008)

yeah... there's no need to take off those sprockets.. just very gingerly *with something soft underneath, but if you make a notch it won't hurt the Head. the VC gasket will still seat good or you can take a file to it if you're worried or anal, like i was* pry up on the cam so it pops out of the journals.. but be sure you don't let it fall back on to them. an effed up journal will make your head unusable later *well...it'll be fine with a lil filing as long as it's not gouged in any way* unless you have a ton of cash to find those camshaft inserts...or take it to a machine shop to have the brackets filed down and the cam bores re cut. *holding it tight and prying at the same time helps* then you wiggle the whole cam to the center of the head, then do the same to the exhaust cam... wait.. i can't remember even though i just did it like freakin 5 times but one goes in and out easier than the other...... just play with it. then the chain lowers off the idle sprocket... it also helps to unbolt the idle sprocket so you can raise it up some, but that requires you to put the lil cotter pin on the lower tensioner back *there's those lil cotter pin hooks*... you should just be able to get to it wi/o taking off the lower cover. BUT BE VERY CAREFUL then the idle sprocket raises just high enough to do it all. you can take off the cam sprockets but it's just not worth the hassle of try to make double sure that the sprocket is lined up perfect *torqued perfect* with the lobes/chain timing marks... YOU DEFINETLY DON'T WANT A CAM THAT NOT TIMED RIGHT TORQUED RIGHT. course.. i've haven't read up on it or done it yet.. i'm not sure if it torques right by itself... but either way untorquing and retorquing cam sprockets is a good was to ensure having to find new cams cuz the sprockets bust off the cam real easy. my dumbass found this out twice in a row... first time i just durdedur.. torqued the cams down thinking it was fine and the brackets wouldn't squish EHHHH WRONG SNAP!!!  AS SOON AS YOU CRANK YOUR ENGINE ON. second time... ya know what?... i think i'll torque em to like 12 lbs *the dealer told me 10-15* SNAP!!!!  SON OF A @!#%$#$^#%&^#%[email protected]%#%^#$%@#$%!!!! .....yeah... the camshaft brackets on a DOHC 240 are torqued to 8.71 lbs *per some dude in a shop that does 240's*... haven't done it yet... just now finishing assembly on ENTIRE engine cuz the prick that sold me the car didn't bother to tell me the 4th pistonrod bearing was spun. this is my last cam. i'm seriously pissed i'm out 2 exhaust cams and have to find some for my other two engines... course.. both cranks on the other two are screwed up too ....spun bearings. nothing like spending hundreds of dollars on an engine crank when you could prolly find an entire new engine for cheaper.

BTW: before you take the idle sprocket bolt off *if you're like me and was playing with the crank while doing other stuff instead of just leaving it alone...insome cases you can't * MAKE SURE YOU SCRATCH THE LINK THAT'S JUST ABOVE THE LOWER RIGHT CHAIN GUIDE. this will let you know whether or not you effed up by letting the timing mark on the Crank move over a tooth. i tried counting down from the idle sprocket timing mark to the last link you can see on the crank *18 outside links if i remember correctly, but it'd be best if you counted yourself @ TDC*, but i did this on an extra engine and it's a mofro if you don't have a good flashlight and 20/20 vision. if you don't make sure that link is in the same position, you're going to have to remove and clean the front cover.......which means you have to remove and clean the oil pan......which means you have to drop the pass. suspension, the engine braces on the mounts taken off and have two jacks.... one on the front of the car *where the radiator support is* and one under the tranny so you don't A: bend your tranny dick although, mine supported it with the jack and i'm pretty sure is fine *lol.... tranny/male//engine/female :idhitit: ....and B: you have more play on the engine by jack up right where the bellhousing bolts on the engine. ....then you gotta raise the engine away from the crossmember and pull out the oil pan at the same time you take off the oil strainer. if you don't raise the engine this far *with the suspension dropped* you can't get the pan out... and if you don't get it out, it's anybody's guess how good your oil pan seal will be and you'll be losing a ton of oil everywhere you go.

the lower cover is a real [email protected]%!%. lets just say... days upon days, and with as many mating surfaces you have to scrap/clean/prep and then reseal.... one mistake will take you twice or three times as long. especially when some jerk off stoner that sold you the car doesn't bother to tell you certain lil probs with the engine like a damn spun bearing. "well i drove it fine from Grand Prarie" :banhump: yeah... i'm the banana on bottom. *shakes head* thank god i had a 3rd engine....


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## 94 LE pusher (Jan 6, 2005)

Holy Crap man, Thanks!


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

DO IT THE PROPER WAY! Just like Nismo240 described, there's a spot just behind each cam sprocket for using a large open-end wrench. Once the bolt is out, gently tap on the back side of the sprocket at several spots and it will come off.


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## OchnofConcrete (Jan 7, 2008)

no prob LEpusher...it was really startin to tick me off tryin to find all this info, not to mention laying on rocks for a week straight making sure i double/triple/quadruple check everything over and over and over to make sure the entire engine bay was good... electronics, fuel, air, even redid the collector and vacuum tubes... not that's a real bitch. vacuum diagrams are hell to read, but once you get it down iz ez. and then the guy out there wasn't helpin me for sh!t even though "i've been to UTI down in Houston"....:bs: it's nice to get a break sometimes and just have someone let you know what ya gotta do... the hard part is doing it right... lol. shadetree grease monkeys unite!!! lol

Rogoman....what ya gonna do when your cam sprocket snaps off the cam after you turn it back on? i dunno... i guess if you're lucky enough to have found a car that has a bran new engine, or maybe extremely lucky enough to have found one that's only got 100k on it. all three of mine have over 220k on it. the cams snapped like freaking dry spagetti. and i can garuntee you a new cam wouldn't have when i only torqued the brackets to 10.5lbs.
it's a real [email protected]#$ to have to do all that work just to take off cams.. but as long as you make sure the crank timing mark doesn't move by scratching the link near the idle sprocket, you're good and don't have to. course... you'd be a fool to not go ahead and replace your bottom timing chain when you're doing major work on your engine. the chains stretch... and eventually will snap in half, throw metal slivers all over the place, not to mention if you're driving when it happens... you need a headjob *your valves are probably bent all to hell* and if you're karma really sucks the entire engine will destroy itself.


btw:.... just got my head on last night.. today's timing and sealant day!!! woot.


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## OchnofConcrete (Jan 7, 2008)

and if you can, and got the spot to do it... JUST RIP THE ENGINE. trust me... it's soooo much easier if you're changing out the timing chains. you don't have to mess with suspension, and you can triple check everything... and torque everything perfect... then when you drop it in again, all ya gotta do is attach all the lil crap.


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## 94 LE pusher (Jan 6, 2005)

Thank you for all the help to every one who replied.


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## Nismo240 (Jul 24, 2004)

just to let you know, be VERY CAREFUL when putting them back in. while i was torquing mine down, the exhaust cam in my SR snapped in two pieces.


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## OchnofConcrete (Jan 7, 2008)

that's crazy how they make them so brittle, when it's an engine that can have up to 600-700 horses...
yeah... i think i took like two hours w/ half turns on each bolt.... but you have to speculate on when you first start threading them cuz if you're puttin em in with the sprockets on....
cuz i read up on how to do the sprockets and iz a real b!#$% to make sure they're perfect so it times right.
...but first threading....with it timed you'll be pushin down a couple valves too.. so i just took a lot of time to make sure that it was going down parallel on all of em even with it pushin those valves down. definetly had a smoke break afterwards. was freakin nervous as hell, it being my last exhaust cam.
lol.... all the stuff ramblin around my head to make sure everything was done right and at first i accidentally switched the intake w/ the exhaust... luckily i didn't bolt down yet, but added another 30 mins makin sure it was perfectly timed. lol... that's what happens i guess when you're workin on an engine waking til sleeping for 5 days straight.

...but just got the whole front sealed and waitin on the oil pan to heat up a lil. sealin in the winter's a sob.


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## Nismo240 (Jul 24, 2004)

yea, if i knew they were that brittle i would've went a lot slower. it sucks though cause i haven't had my car running in almost three months and once i get close to finishing it this happens. but i was trying to put them on with the sprockets on too. i guess it'll be a bit easier without them on.


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## OchnofConcrete (Jan 7, 2008)

in a way it's easier... but you have to seriously make sure that the sprocket is in the same exact position after the torquing... otherwise you won't be able to use the timing mark... and of course if it's off a lil then where the link is supposed to fit you'll have a tooth instead


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

OchnofConcrete said:


> Rogoman....what ya gonna do when your cam sprocket snaps off the cam after you turn it back on? i dunno... i guess if you're lucky enough to have found a car that has a bran new engine, or maybe extremely lucky enough to have found one that's only got 100k on it. all three of mine have over 220k on it. the cams snapped like freaking dry spagetti. and i can garuntee you a new cam wouldn't have when i only torqued the brackets to 10.5lbs.


The cam journal caps call for a torque setting of 6.7 - 8.7 ft lbs not 10.5; you need to be careful not to over-torque the caps as the threads are very easy to strip.

Here's a picture of the proper way to remove a cam sprocket:


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## OchnofConcrete (Jan 7, 2008)

that's what i've torqued them to now.
the dealer was who was tellin me to do 10-15 and i tried 10.5 and they snapped.

on the torquing the sprockets though.. i read the instructions on torquing them and it was saying that you have to make sure the cam doesn't move while you do it... like it's showing with the cresent wrench... which is the only way TO do it, but how do you know for sure that the sprocket is for sure, absolutely for sure, that the sprocket is positioned so you can use the timing mark? ...i mean if you know the links counted from the idle sprocket you don't have to worry to much, but what if the cam sprocket is moved to where the teeth are where the valley between the teeth should be?... know what i mean?
i know that the bolt is factory threaded to hit it right but if it's a tad off you won't know for sure because the cams are put together with extremely expensive machines that make sure.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

The cams have a dowel pin and the sprocket has a hole for it. When you install the sprocket, it's dead on, no mistake about being off a tooth or so.


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## OchnofConcrete (Jan 7, 2008)

there's no chance that it would effect the integrity of it though? after 200,000 miles, you'd think that taking them off and putting them back on when they are already naturally easy to snap? as easy as it broke... i figured the chain would snap before the cam but the first time the cam broke and the new chain bent... the second w/ an old chain, the chain broke with it, but still broke the cam sprocket right off.
i understand that you can put it exactly back to the right position, but the next question is, how would i know whether or not it's still the same strength as before given that that bolt hadn't moved since the birth of the car? not to mention your torqueing the old cam down by hand compared to the original machine that perfectly torqued it. not it being a matter of getting it to the right position but rather... you're budging it a lil at a time to position it rather the machine that continuously spins the bolt until the correct stopping point. unless they are ....gdamit... *brainfart* air-racheted, giving the whole thing that bumpy torquing process unlike a smooth yet strenuous-on-the-bolt straight torque.

*shrugs* i totally understand how much easier it is to just remove the sprockets and how that is the correct way to do it, but i've always worked on older cars due to purely financial reasons, and i've come to learn that old parts are very brittle sometimes, in fact in some cases you don't even want to clean them w/o removing them because the old grease is actually helping them from not rusting. though POR 15 is always an option, but not when you've only got the money for the part to be replaced and a lil cleaner. and you've got to remove the part, and if you're lucky only have to replace one or two nuts or bolts. for me it's just a matter of need. if this cam breaks... i'm completely screwed, so i took the all the oppurtunity for failure out and decided it's best not to mess with the very last chance i've got on the only ride i've got.

for the age of my car and it being my last cam due to the moronic advice from the stealership, me not taking the sprocket off is purely a preventative measure in this case. but on a newer car i'd definetly do it the other way... 

and as i was putting it back together i found again that you can remove and install the cams without having to unbolt the idle sprocket... after the tensioner is taken off, it gives juuuust enough slack to play with it and get the cams to move to the center of the head wi/o messing up the head/cam journals. it's a slow and maticulous process though. then i slip the cam that's got the most slack out towards the front between the chain/othercam/head *without touching ;]* and then the other cam just comes right out.

the fun part is when after i had the bracket bolts threaded correctly on the intake... the exhaust was a little off due to the two cam lobes that are pushing down on the valve lifters and the fact that the sprocket's still on so the chain is pulling it to the center a lil. so i cautiously used a flathead *inserted in a headbolt hex hole at the best postion that would move the entire cam at once... just find the best for the best leverage... not much leverage at all* and very nicely moved it over like a 16th of an inch and the bolts slipped right in to thread correctly.


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## 94 LE pusher (Jan 6, 2005)

Thank you guys so much! I got the cams out, i needed them out so i could pull the head. Thank you again.


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## OchnofConcrete (Jan 7, 2008)

no prob man.. hope it helped.

i'm havin my own probs right now. lol

finally got everything back together.. double checked cam torquing... everything back together and now the mother effing clutch cylinders aren't holding pressure..

so in the last 30 mins i just switch both cylinders out with some new ones off my other chassis. 

i swear to god if something so trivial makes this effing car not run after so much work i'm gonna go effing ballistic on the mofo that sold it to me.


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## Nismo240 (Jul 24, 2004)

lol, sounds like me with cars. once i fix one thing, something else screws up. hell, once i get mine running i might sell it to get an SC300 i've been eyeing.....


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## OchnofConcrete (Jan 7, 2008)

you know what really sux, is that i haven't even gotten to drive this car yet and it has HICAS....
i'm preparing myself for a major problem. lol, and this is supposed to be my basket w/ all my eggs.. *shakes head*

what really sux is i may be losing my red chassis and it has brand new brake system on it as well as suspension boots. *crossing fingers*


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## Nismo240 (Jul 24, 2004)

i feel ya on that. i took a loan out for $5K, bought the motorset and ended up spending more on parts then i did the motorset. i got it running, but it was really jumpy and ran like shit. and less than a month after i get it running i mess with the timing and hasn't ran since then. then i finally figure out whats wrong, go through hell trying to fix it, and once i'm almost done putting it back together, i snap a camshaft. and with no job, i'm pretty much up shits creek without a paddle. i've had some bad luck with cars, but its not gonna stop me from doing what i want to do. hell, i just may go blow this motor since its given me so much hell lol. sort of like payback for being such a bitch lol.


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## OchnofConcrete (Jan 7, 2008)

lol if you're that pissed at it, mail it to me. lol... come on, you know you want to.

see my thing is i'd keep going and goin, but i have a effing deadline... and i so close..

course it had to start effing sleeting today so all i'm gonna do is go out and reattach the bumber...

i'll be damned if i'm gonna try to start a just rebuilt engine, never ran in front of me, just reassembled car, on a day that it's 29 degrees outside. eff that.

ha... gives me time today to literally put EVERYTHING back on my other chassis so if i find a way i can either sell it or tow it. 
...today's gonna be a loooong day. heh. the things pretty much gutted down to the chassis and windows - the winshield.

*makin coffee right now*


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## Omerta11023 (Feb 3, 2008)

*damn*

this is way off topic but this is probably the only forum site i have ever seen where people arent bitching and bickering at each other. 

oh and best of luck with your 240..

im also rebuildin my car atm....

i probably kicked it ten times yesterday when i found another problem.


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## OchnofConcrete (Jan 7, 2008)

oooh, boy, i can wait to bust into my manual 240 tranny... full on rebuild w/ gear ratio's set. yeah baby.

feel you on kickin sh!t though. lol. got two dents in my pass. frnt fender from when i found out the block was fu(ked. ....lil bondo. ;] i may plan on my car hittin Barrett Jackson, but i'll be damned if it's gonna not have bondo and crease area dents.


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