# Speed ometer help !!!



## Bunta (Feb 15, 2006)

Hey everyone,

I need some help, a few weeks ago i got my clutch changed, when i left my speedometer wasnt working. called shop and they said they just need to reconnect the cable, didnt think nothing of it and said id bring it back so they can do it. now the check engine light came on, took to autozone and came up speed sensor. ok no biggie i figure just reconnect the cable, the guy said its up front lets just connect it, popped hood cable is connected. now before someone says well just replace the sensor and call it a day, i did some googleing and found out that on eariler sentras/200sx (same car) the rpm and speedometer is off the same sensor. if this is the case (if anyone can confirm this) then it would be my cluster guage? any help would be great i dont want to waste money on a sensor if its the guage and vice versa.

Thanks in advance
oh my car is 1998 200sx with the 1.6 5spd


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

The FSM clearly states the rpm readout is from the ECU (we know its from the signal from the dist.) and the speedometer is from the Vehicle speed sensor.
Since these two measure different variables how could you get both from the same sensor ?


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## Bunta (Feb 15, 2006)

Thank you, that clears that part up, no i googled and got that information from someone esle that stated the rpm and speedo shared the same sensor, thank you for proving that is not the case. how often does a speed sensor go bad? im trying to determine if its the cluster or the sensor, im trying not to spend any more money than neccessary.

THanks for everyones help


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

Since they didn't touch your cluster check the VSS first.
You can try removing it and spinning it by hand and see if the speedo works.
Check the gears. Look for broken wires since the clutch has just been changed.
I had no problems when my clutch was changed, but then i did my own


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## Bunta (Feb 15, 2006)

Thanks, Im gonna check that tonight.


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## Bunta (Feb 15, 2006)

Hey everyone, update, i took the car back to the shop that did my clutch, first off the sensor is in the rear towards the fire wall, and the plug was not connected, connected, reset, no more check engine light and speedo working and didnt have to buy anything.

Thanks for everyones input.


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

yes, you are meant to remove it to fill and check the Trans Oil level.
Its so awkward to get at I just fill the correct amount of Oil.


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## philb00 (May 17, 2008)

*where is speed sensor on sentra gxe '96 ?*

where is the vss speed sensor ? under hood up near firewall behind steering wheel side ?
or is it inside up under feet behind dashboard ?
any pics of it ?
thanks !
---

I have 96 nissan sentra 4cyl - and speedo needle drops to 0 intermittently
and the odometer stops rolling tooo....
And the check engine lite came on tooo ( about 5 months ago had fixed the EGR code w/ cracked vacuum hose and eng lite went off for 5 months now )... but now it's back on.

Is the speedo/odo problem reason for the check engine lite back on (probably)

Will Autozone test computer show the code for this speed/odo problem ?
What is the code for this ?

Best way to fix this ?
I won't be able to pass smog inspection with lite on, right ? (in Mass )

speedo/odo going off seems when bad weather -raining and use wipers
Thanks


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

i would describe it as under the Intake/intake tube, on top of the transmission towards firwall.
I wll see if I can get a picture and post later.


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

See comments is your post below.



philb00 said:


> where is the vss speed sensor ? under hood up near firewall behind steering wheel side ?
> or is it inside up under feet behind dashboard ?
> any pics of it ?
> thanks !
> ...


General location and direction of detail photo. 








see VSS cable, see small part red wire showing and part of body.


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## philb00 (May 17, 2008)

Hi
Sorry still not sure where/what red wire yur talking about in pic - Thanks for pic
Looks alotalot like my engine underhood.
Where is this vss cable or speedometer connection thing ?
Thanks


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

philb00 said:


> Hi
> Sorry still not sure where/what red wire yur talking about in pic - Thanks for pic
> Looks alotalot like my engine underhood.
> Where is this vss cable or speedometer connection thing ?
> Thanks


Ok try this, please remember this pic was shot on way to work, so it is from memory, but I am 70% sure this is it. If not its close !!!


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## philb00 (May 17, 2008)

Thanks alot for pics !!
THnk I know where to look now.. will check.
Could this just be loose maybe ?
Or crack in wire ?
Or do have to repalce the whole thing ?
What can I do basically with this wire/plug thingy ?
Thanks!


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## philb00 (May 17, 2008)

Still having hard time finding this thing circled in the red circle.

Is this down low near firewall under steering column area / driver side area ?

If do find it - what can I do with it ?
Can it be detached or unplugged or what ?

Thanks for help


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

ok, lift hood and stand by drivers side wheel, near the master cylinder, look near firewall, below the Air intake tube, compare to the first picture
Then look down where its dark and you should see it.
Its on top of the transaxle above and between where the drive shafts exit.
Yes its difficut to see and to get at.
you can undo the one bpolt, and wiggle it out.
Others have reported its difficult to get out.
When its out you can spin it and see if the speedo moves up.
If it does check the gear on the VSS and the gear in the transaxle.
If it doesnt then check with a meter. I will look in the FSM and see what it says.
If its dead replace 
If not then wiring and cluster, ECU ?


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## jphillips3200 (Aug 28, 2008)

philb00 said:


> where is the vss speed sensor ? under hood up near firewall behind steering wheel side ?
> or is it inside up under feet behind dashboard ?
> any pics of it ?
> thanks !
> ...


now when i bought my sentra six monthes ago, the speedo did not work at all, so i did what any certified auto mechanic would do.... i drove with no speedo. 

after about 3 monthes i finally decided to fix it, so i removed and tested my vss. obviously it was bad so i replaced it(autozone $30) 

well almost immidiatly after i cleared the code (vss), it would come back on. and i had the problem of it dropping to 0 occasionally. well i work on chevys all day, so i decided maybe the trick that fixes all problems on domestics might work for my darling nissan... so i punched the dashboard. and sure enough the speedo came right back on. 

i probably deleted the code with a scanner 100 times onlly to have it return. every time that the computer senses a problem with the vss curcuit, it will set the code, and will delete the code itself after sometime if the problem does not return. if it happens again the computer will reset the light. 

if the vss is bad, then it is bad. period. it would never work. if the connections are poor it would most likely not work often. there are only two mechanical devices in the vss curcuit. the vss, and the odometer number things. 

try flicking the odometer (seriously) whenever it stops working. my guess, it get stuck and since the motor that turns it has no torque it stops, and since it is connected inside the cluster to the speedo than blammo! no speed for you.

by the way... the other day i was kindof mad and i slammed the dash pretty hard and i have had no more problems concerning my speedo, it even fixed my cruise control which had only worked once the whole time i owned my car. the code shut itself off, and i am no longer annoyed by that little yellow light


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## philb00 (May 17, 2008)

hey thanks - my ck eng lite cleared all sudden - after about 3 weeks of it on an checked at autozone - got the 0500 vss code showing.
Went back to autozone after lite been off for week and now there is no code or problem showing up at all...
speedo and odo seem to be working ok for now ...
Pretty weird - hope it does not come back for a while - got to go state inspection sticker in month... gottta pass 
Thanks


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## philb00 (May 17, 2008)

Great !....
I tried to undo the bolt on this - and I busted the head off the bolt (was so rusted and mostly rotted)... am i screwed now ?
The whole little apparatus tho is still stuck on there real tight.. does not budge even with the bolt head broken off...
So does that bolt really matter?
Can I detach or get that wire to unclip/ detach somehow so I can get at the actual
VSS sensor thingy ?

Will spraying with WD40 or Penetrating oil help get the thing off ?

Any help appreciated!
Thx


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

here is a link to pictures of this beast....

http://www.nissanforums.com/ga16de-1-6l-engine/144974-speed-sensor-differences-pic-inside.html


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## philb00 (May 17, 2008)

*Reality of speedo/odometer problems - Mechanics will NOT touch it!*

'96 Nissan Sentra GXE automatic - 127,000 miles : VSS problem :

Speedo/odometer just suddenly stops/drops to zero 
and then by jiggling/pushing in/out/holding in the mileage trip reset button - usually speedo will come back to life. But dreaded CEL Light is ON - cant pass Mass state inspection with that on. (as you know)
---

My stupid story:
Last couple months CEL on then off then back on.
Went to Autozone - confirmed code 0500 then when CEL off - code cleared. BUt then now CEL back on.
The speedo acting wacky/dropping off to 0 intermittently.
--
I took my car today to official Mass. Emission repair place - garage mechanic guy who specializes in the CEL OBD thing. (He fixed another prior CEL code 0400 EGR thing for me before -only charged me $50)
All he would attempt to do/did was verify code 0500 on computer. Then just looked/checked under hood the VSS on transaxle - said it is prob ok.
(I had already removed trim panel around the cluster guage to help speed things up - save $$).
BUt he would not even touch/dive into pulling out the speedo/cluster guage or check wiring etc...

He said - anything involving speedo/odometer has to be sent out to place in NJ (one place he has used) and Dealerships must do same thing too.
And this "place" either replaces/repairs the speedo/cluster THEN resets the odometer mileage to whatever miles I got on my car. And then paperwork certifies it all and ships it back. All because Federal law or something due to truth with mileage/odometer law.

IS THIS CORRECT ? Is this what happens or your experience in your state ?

Massachusetts has a pretty stiff/tough emissions inspection test - must pass emissions test every other year and Safety check every year.
---

He did at least reset cleared the CEL back to OFF and cleared the code.
BUt he said - still will need to drive car about weeek or 30-40miles city/highway to rebuild data in the ECM computer (ie: like cat converter info, engine rpm, etc etc) BEFORE can think about going for the state inspection test .

IS THIS CORRECT about having to drive around 
even after clearing the CEL light and ECM code ???
How much time or miles have to be put on to fill up the ECM database so can take the inspection test ?

At least this guy is nice - did not want any $$ or charge me for slapping computer on or researching on his pc/internet sites or clearing out code and shutting CEL lite off. 
(Gave him $20 bucks - least could do for his 45 minutes time)

Real life is: No good mechanic wants to deal with electronic/electrical messy problems like this - not worth their time (his words) and he is so busy with other customers - he/they won't screw around/waste their time (no matter how much $$ you might throw at them - not worth the hassles)
These good mechanics got so much other business/customers they don't need to deal with crappy/messy things like this. They can make easier more money fixing simpler stuff.

Your experience too ?


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

philb00 said:


> '96 Nissan Sentra GXE automatic - 127,000 miles : VSS problem :
> 
> Speedo/odometer just suddenly stops/drops to zero
> and then by jiggling/pushing in/out/holding in the mileage trip reset button - usually speedo will come back to life. But dreaded CEL Light is ON - cant pass Mass state inspection with that on. (as you know)
> ...


Yes, and customers get pissed when the expensive repairs don't work !!!


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## philb00 (May 17, 2008)

Here in Massachusetts (like most states I think) I believe what this mechanic 
saying about only certified place can touch/repair the speedo/odometer problems (and not even dealerships can do it themselves and they also have to send out ) all because of mileage certification.

Also - he said - he sent out about two or more speedos
- for corvette - cost was about $320
- for buick cost was about $120 

In Mass when go to sell any used vehicle - must sign back registration saying mileage is original and untouched - on penalty of something bad.

So I'm sure a dealership sticker on doorjam ain't gonna cut it - I would not like/buy any used car if owner shows me some sticker stuck to door saying mileage is so and so

Who can you believe or trust these days anyhow.... reallly tough


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

Same here but there is an option to say the mileage is unknown.
More than one or two people on the forum have got the dealer certification sticker adjusting the mileage. 
So if this is a Mass thing your only option is mileage unknown. what if it breaks and its not fixed...Mileage unknown. they cant make that right if you are signing an affidavit. 
Your car is OBDII
its an old car.... millage doesn't matter as much as condition, particularly in the snow belt because of rust.
Get another cluster for 50 - 60 dollars, get one same or near your mileage OVER and don't worry so much.
Look on Car-parts.com that's where i found mine, with a thousand more miles or so over but its close.


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

Unfortunately many at $50 have not listed the mileage, so you will have to call around and find one 
there are several listed at 130 131 K miles for under $100.
Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market
look under instrument cluster, Auto 1.6 L, without TACH, 1995 to 1999


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## philb00 (May 17, 2008)

Yehh Buttt.... You're saying (if I buy some used one) you can pass any afterwards state inspection (I'm Massachusetts) with some "unknown" mileage paperwork - and the inspector and state will allow it and put on a new sticker every year thereafter ???

I know the inspector has to punch in your vin number and the mileage currently showing on the odometer every time you go for yearly inspection. 
Is that why you suggest to find one with miles Greater than the broken original ?

What would happen if the inspector types into the inspection computer a mileage that is lower than the previous last time the car was inspected ?
What happens then ? They know and computer that car's mileage can not go backwards or be less than prior last test.

The state computer prob will automatically reject it and Fail you - or does the inspector have some privilege/authority to override this mileage thing to allow the inspection to continue ??

---
Anyways.... I was VERY LUCKY... I sorta passed my Mass inspection and got my sticker just yesterday !!!! YehhH! That saved me about $200-$300 or who knows.

What I did :
Another mechanic reset/turned off the CEL light ( I had the 0500 VSS code showing up)... I drove my car thru the official OBDII re-cycle steps (see my other post) and put on about 20+ miles under the strict steps for rebuilding obd data for the car's ECM.
The speedo was working and acting normal (except one time when jsut starting up early morning - had to play around with odometer reset buttonstick)
I only drove it about 45 minutes or less and went immediately to gas station.

Went to this good guy inspector and I passed (barely)... Only one of the 4 Monitors
was marked "Not Ready" (fail) but 3 of the 4 were Ready (passed) AND
I had no "hard" faults (meaning CEL light on) (DTC error code) come up.
(the CEL light was still off and did not come back on)

This is inspector told me I could getby/pass and get sticker even "if 2 Monitors are out"
I had just one out I guess.... It was the Cat Converter (as it is listed on state computer and paper handed back to me after passsing)

Anyhow... those strict 13 steps of rebuilding the OBD ECM monitors helped me alot so to enable get me a sticker (for at least another year)
and get by....

Thanks to this good guy inspector and having that "secret" list of 13 steps to rebuild the OBD ECM computer in the car.


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

Well i am pleased you have your sticker for another year. 

Please post your 13 steps to re-set the ECU.

No, i was saying when you sell the car there is an option here to check a box for "mileage unknown" instead of the mileage is Declaration / affidavit.

Yes they record your mileage every year and this shows up on the Carfax check for correct mileage. I don't know what mass does with this except report it as here.

Yes if you get a cluster that's close but above your mileage you can sign the affidavit and not raise red flags on the mileage check on carfax.

If the mileage goes backwards Carfax flags it as an incorrect mileage, don't know about Mass. Clearly then you must declare the mileage unknown or be guilty of Fraud.

I dont know about this book you refer too, not mentioned here before in last 5 years.

Please post your 13 steps to re-set the ECU.

Its been stated here that you have to go through so many start shutdown sequences and get car warm each time, numbers and distances were something like 10 cycles and 3 or 10 miles, cant remember.


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## philb00 (May 17, 2008)

I will try to type up the 13 steps I used (but not have lots time now)...
Basically was - start with engine cold (ECT < 158 F ) coolant temp
Start engine (ohh suposed to have a scanner hooked up and running during this driving time - I don't have nor a Tach - they have bunch of tach data to follow too)
(So I just used the mph specs they give)
idle 1-2 min
Drive city like 3 minutes vary speeds
Highway drive 50-58 mph 3 minutes with OD on 
then stop
IDLE for 10 minutes
Stop engine for at least 10 seconds
STart up and immediately hit highway
Drive 55-70 mph 3 min w/ OD Off and AC on 
then cruise highwy 55-70 for 3 min w/ OD on and AC OFF
then come to stop - 
Idle for at least 2-3 minutes. Shut off engine
Then start engine and pray CEL lite not come back on.
CHeck code - if does and repair.

(I did all above best all from memory ) - will re-post better more exact when get paper out of my car.

Main thing I noticed was to Idle for 2 minutes then later 10 full minutes (can hear your fans kicking in while idling) and to use turnon/off the OD (overdrive) and AC on/off during highway driving (50-70 mph ).
These were main things going on during the 13 steps.
---

Be better if someone can find/reference the OBDII paperbook fat manual the Emissions Repair facility mechanic xroxed out of the book.

---

I only prob started/shut off the ignition key about 5-6 times from time when ECM code was cleared/ lite shut off the day before up til time I went to State inspection test.
And I only put on about 22 miles after going thru above steps.


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## Jdoggsc (Dec 25, 2007)

*'97 manual readiness test drive pattern*

This is for a '97 manual. this isnt' for a '96 automatic.

very useful. this is the actual photocopy i got from the dealership. hope the image will show. last post i made w/ this pic didn't show up...maybe admin has to approve it?

if you can't read it, save it to your computer and zoom in on it.


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