# Fuel pump and filter replacement????



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi All
On Sunday eve my X would not start when parked on a vertical slope. Took a number of attempts, but when it did start it idled very rough and then smoothed out and drove normally. Sadly did not store any malfunction. It has started fine and driven well the past couple of days. My thinking is that its a 2006 with 221,000 kms and that either the fuel filter is getting full or the fuel pump is on the way out. I am assuming the angle the car was at would require the pump to work a bit harder than normal. I would like to avoid a repeat of the no-start condition, especially if my wife is driving it, and was thinking I should proactively replace the pump and filter. Am I overreacting or completely in left field?

As per usual getting parts is not as easy as you might think. Nissan does not sell a complete assembly for the X trail and require you to buy every bit and O ring separately, and of course its all special order. I can't be bothered to tally everything but you would be looking at close to 1000 Cdn to get a fully new one in parts. An eBay seller ( same part to be found elsewhere as well) says this will work
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/322701841803?ul_noapp=true

However, in looking at the pic compared to the tested used unit I just picked up for $30, it is lacking part of the float mechanism, though I am thinking that part could be transferred. Communicating with the eBay seller is not so easy, and I do not want to lead anyone into error ordering the wrong one. However, if anyone knows this works in a T30 it would be useful information to share.

Anyway, my plan is to install the used one, keep mine and order the motor 17042-8H30A, and the fuel filter 16400-2Y505. Rock Auto has aftermarket ones, though you need to order the filter from the 2001 Nissan Sentra 1.8 section-- they have a beck/arnley one-- its same as ours but their catalog does not show it in the X trail section. Will write more later


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well haven't installed the new to me unit yet, and I am wondering if I am jumping the gun. The issue only happened once, the front end was high due to parking on an uphill slope, and the tank was less than half full. Had driven on the highway earlier in the day and was fine. Its never surged, or sputtered, and has been starting fine the past 3 days. I am at a bit of a loss as to what actually happened. It seemed to me as if I was getting no fuel pressure/gas when it would not start. Consequently, it doesn't seem to me to be as rush a job to replace it, and truth be told I don't know anything about the used unit I got other than the seller telling me it tested good. It looks good, not discolored, and no corrosion on float wires, and I suspect it has an aftermarket or replacement fuel pump in it, as it is brass colored with black plastic ends like the replacement for sale at RockAuto, whereas the Nissan ones seem to be a silver color with white plastic ends. Anyway, I will try it out between now and the weekend, and hopefully, a closer look at my existing one will reveal if it is on the way out.
I will add that I am blown away that there are only two filters available in Canada at Nissan dealerships, not one in the greater Ottawa-Gatineau area. Even Napa requires you to special order. As for the fuel pump, the Spectra option from RockAuto or Amazon looks to be the way to go as Napa sells the same part for over $300, and if I heard right Nissan dealer is asking $467, and that is only for the pump. For genuine Nissan Partsouq or Amaya or eBay are the way to go if you want to save money. Either way, once again compared to many other Nissan models, parts are super expensive and you cannot buy the complete unit from them.


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

Go easy on the parts replacement. 
If you can reproduce the miss start, you ll be able to isolate the cause. 
Have you continued to use the fuel injectors cleaner?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Otomodo
Thanks for the feedback. I may try the hill park again. It occurs to me that I can do this a bit further down our street. Which is better than being in a Gatineau Park parking lot.
When it did not start, it was as if it was not getting any gas. I may have been a bit quick starting it and not allowing a couple of seconds for the fuel pump to pressurize. I daily drive the X trail and it does lots of city driving and short trips. I am just suspecting that the fuel pump has to be past its best before date. I will try out the unit I bought off Kijiji for $30, and see if I notice any difference. I will also throw in a bottle of fuel system cleaner.
I read the service manual (including the precautions section) and looked at your photos as well as a video, and the job looks pretty straightforward, and should not take more than a half-hour. The toughest part seems to be disconnecting the fuel line.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Re if I have continued to use the fuel system cleaner, not in over a year. Fuel gauge while not 100% accurate in my books, is still working, just sometimes a little slow to light up as empty, and sticks for a while around the quarter tank level. It should turn on with approx 10 L of fuel left, but sometimes its closer to 5 or 6. I should probably get in the habit of filling up somewhere around the 2/3rds empty mark. Low fuel levels apparently make the pump work harder.


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## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

Mine was a little hard to start today after being parked nose up for 2 days with just under 1/4 tank of fuel. I thought of your post when it happened. I would not change the pump unless the problem occurs again. I have only had the low fuel light come on once in 2 years. I recommend fueling up before you see the light.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback X-Hale. Glad to know I am not the only one. Yesterday I decided to bite the bullet and park in the same spot I did Sunday while walking the dog. Did the walk, came back, and lo and behold the X started without issue. Not sure what happened on Sunday just seemed it was not getting any gas. I think the fuel float on mine sticks a bit when its at the 1/4 or a bit above that. It will stay that way for a while, and it's only after I turn off the car and then restart it that it will show empty and the light comes on. So I may have had less gas than I thought in it.
Prior to parking it yesterday I added 25 Litres, so there was no gas issue. I half filled it thinking I would be changing the pump assembly and did not want it full. Now I am no longer sure.

I guess I will hold off installing the pump assembly I bought, and I will hang on to it as a spare for if and when I need it. I will give it a bottle of fuel system cleaner, and see if that does anything. Anyhow it has started fine and driven well the past few days so my worry has decreased. I just wish I knew better what happened.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

quadraria10 said:


> Well haven't installed the new to me unit yet, and I am wondering if I am jumping the gun. The issue only happened once, the front end was high due to parking on an uphill slope, and the tank was less than half full. Had driven on the highway earlier in the day and was fine. Its never surged, or sputtered, and has been starting fine the past 3 days. I am at a bit of a loss as to what actually happened. It seemed to me as if I was getting no fuel pressure/gas when it would not start.


Hey QUAD, had a member sometime ago with the same problem, nose of car parked up a steep hill with less then 1/4 tank of gas or maybe near empty, hard to start, sputters for a while, then OK. I suggested to him to keep the tank at least 3/4 full of gas, I guess that was his fix because he never replied.

I took a look at a picture of the fuel tank and it shows the fuel pump being mounted toward the front of the tank, so if you're very low on gas and sitting nose up on a steep hill, I could see there being a problem with starting.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks for the answer Rogoman. It wasn't super steep but I think I was lower on gas than I thought I was. I will try and make the quarter tank level my new empty and time for a fill-up. Bonus is each fill will cost less, but I will be filling up a bit more often lol!


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## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

My Subaru SVX has always had extended crank times if parked nose up. Nose down or level it starts perfectly.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well I have now parked 3 times in the exact same spot where I experienced the hard start, and have had no further problems. Thanks to the comments here, I am pretty sure the problem was in fact that I was low on fuel.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Ok so the latest. After taking my wife in to work this morning and the X driving fine, went to start it an hour and half later and no start. Cranks, and a bit of movement on the rpm indicator but wont catch and start up.

I should be thankful as I had it in the Eastern Townships Sunday to Tuesday and then the Kawarthas over the weekend and did close to 1500 kms all told.
Noticed Monday morn that my coolant reservoir was empty and upon investigation found that the radiator cap had telltale signs of leaking from the top seal. ( was the original cap, and the spring in it was very stiff). Added coolant, changed radiator cap, and all seems fine. No signs of overheating on the drive back over the weekend when the leak would have occurred and car drove fine Monday and Tuesday. Checked today and no signs of oil in coolant and no signs of coolant in oil so I don't think head gasket went.

But it would not start today in our driveway after having done the trip into Ottawa an hour or so earlier-- Tried to pull codes and all I got was P0000 using the manual method with the accelerator, was not able to connect my elm code reader to my latest laptop. Installed the fuel pump I bought, and still will not start. Pulled the spark plugs and they all had a bit of gas on them, and no 1 cylinder plug had more carbon build up than the others. ( they have about 60,000 kms on them ( irridium)

Not to sure what it is, I notice in the bit Rogoman has posted on some of the starting issue threads, he mentions timing chain tensioner. Anyway I will check back in the morn to see if anyone has ideas


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

That is bad news. 
Have you heard strange noises coming from the engine lately?
Under hard acceleration do you see any smoke?( or people coughing)
Are you using synthetic oil or high mileage oil?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Otomodo
Nope no strange noises, no smoke upon acceleration that I have noticed, and I use regular 5w-30 Mobil 1 synthetic.
Will investigate more this morn, or have it towed I guess.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well it started up this morn and drove fine. Did a check of the battery, with the engine off its at 12.38 V, and 14.2 while idling. Radiator fans work. The battery is more than 5 years old. Is it fair to assume this is a charging problem? My dilemma is that it costs me less to change the plugs and battery than it would cost to have a diagnosis done. And frankly for an intermittent problem success with such a diagnosis is not guaranteed. Could the issue be related to my alternator or starter?

There is no check engine light on. Started a bit rough with an idle around 1500, but steadied out quickly and drove fine-- zero hesitation, no rough idle, good acceleration. I will try and start it again in an hour.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Hey Quad, according to the FSM for your vehicle, the charging system puts out about 14.1 to 14.7 volts. the battery should have a static charge of 12.2-12.6 volts. So your charging system should be good.

Every time the engine is unable to start, have you determined if it's a fuel problem or an ignition problem? In regards to the fuel pump, if you tee-in a fuel pressure gauge, the reading at idle should be 51 psi.; so if you're getting that pressure, your pump should be OK. A bad ground could cause intermittent operation.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Rogoman, 
Thanks for the answer. I am a little stumped and not sure that I want to bring it in somewhere for possibly a fishing expedition.
I will try and find the ground point for the fuel pump, but I am not sure that is the problem. I do not have the means to test the pump pressure, but I did have a spare pump assembly on hand so I installed it on Wednesday aft when the X would not start. I removed and cleaned the spark plugs at the same time. The plug in cylinder 1 had a tip covered in carbon and was not as wet as the others. All were fouled with gas as I flooded the engine trying to start it. I sprayed electronic cleaner on them and cleaned and dried them. After reinstalling them tried once to start, no success so left it for the night.
Thursday morn it starts up and drives normally. The only issue I notice is a slightly rough idle. Based upon my battery numbers and your post I figure the battery and alternator are still good, but I decided to replace my spark plugs as I figure they are nearing the end of their serviceable life. Put in some NGK Platinum ones to replace the NGK iridium IX, but was surprised to see all 4 plugs obviously cleaned, and no traces of carbon on the plug from cylinder 1 after the morning drives. Still, I replaced them, and the car drove and started up fine 3 further times later in the day. Pretty sure there is not a problem with the fuel pump
Only thing I am noticing is possibly a stronger smell of gasoline upon starting ( no signs of any leaking) but this might be imaginary.
What I think I need to do, is to buy a compression tester to check the cylinders. I am also wondering if I should be considering switching to synthetic high mileage oil 1 rather than the reg Mobil 1.
Lastly, I am wondering if my issues could be related to a fuel injector issue?


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

A compression test would be a good thing to do considering that your engine has 221,000 kms on it. If you don't have an FSM, it would be good to download a copy; just in case you don't have one, here's the compression specs: standard - 181 psi, minimum - 154 psi, Differential limit between cylinders - 14 psi.

Having one or more low cylinders in most cases will cause hard starting and rough idling. The only time there would possibly be a strong smell of gasoline is if there's an external leak; marginal hose connections or leaking fuel injector top O-rings.

If you suspect a fuel injector problem, first try a good injection cleaner like BG products 44K. It is a very strong cleaner so use it sparingly. If you plan to replace fuel injectors, replace all of them at once. They're very easy to replace. The brand that I've always used is GB Remanufacturing® more details on - https://www.carid.com/2006-nissan-x-trail-fuel-injectors-rails/?filter=1&sub-model[Liter][]=2.5L.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks Rogoman. The compression tester for rental at Can Tire is out, and I am too cheap to buy one. Will check into it over the weekend. I have the service manual.
The X trail is starting fine today. Changed the oil to Valvoline Synthetic High Mileage 5w30 a bit earlier today as it was due and figured it might be worth using now. There was no sign of coolant in the oil, nor any gas smell, and when I measured it this morn it was full and at the exact same level as when I left for the Kawarthas Saturday morn. 
The coolant however was lower again in my expansion tank, but I had not turned on the heater prior to yesterday and I figured that sucked a bit more into the system. All told I think I lost about a liter or a bit less of coolant from the failed rad cap. Will keep an eye on it over the next few days. Good news is no white smoke from the exhaust.

I will look into replacing the injectors, I see both Amazon and RockAuto carry the GBs, and with taxes and delivery they would run about $250 Cdn. I think mine are working fine, its just that I have a weird theory that maybe one of them is dripping or leaking slightly. I see they have two gaskets each. Could it be an old 13 year old gasket?. If they are not too hard to remove, maybe I should pull one or two and examine them.


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

Take a look at the coolant expansion tank with the engine running. 
A bad head gasket will make bubbles even if it doesn't make white smoke. 
Do you hear noise from the heater core?
Does it produce enough heat?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Otomodo
Lots of heat from the heater and no bubbles in the coolant reservoir that I have noticed. Was hoping the new fuel pump assembly would fix the fuel gauge issue but I noticed once again that towards the quarter level, the gauge wants to return the half-full level. It is making me wonder if the issue is the float or the gauge in the dash itself.

I am more reassured that I did not ruin the head gasket. Just to point out, the coolant that was escaping was a 1mm stream that was going down the neck and dripping over the fan. I am sure most of it just evaporated. At no point did the temp gauge go over the halfway mark.

The car drove fine last night, and my wife just headed off to the hair salon 10 minutes ago and it started ok. While stopped at a light I notice a slight increase in engine vibration. Acceleration is great and had it up to 90mph briefly on the highway yesterday Mine has always been very smooth but I guess it's getting older now. Wish I could figure out what has caused the latest no start incident. 

My overactive imagination has me wondering if this could be related to a timing tensioner issue. When I first got the X 10 years ago I remember reading about people changing the upper timing chain tensioner. Have not seen anything on the subject in recent years, I am wondering if and when these might be in need of replacing on the QR25DE engine. 
Then again maybe my best move will be to wait and see for a bit, and get a CAA membership in case I should ever require a tow


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

For fun check this out. Remind me to never buy an Audi

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/d71al0


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

OK, I think I am getting a better idea of what is going on. After driving for almost an hour today, I parked and when I got back to the car it would not start first go. I then tried starting while flooring the pedal to cut off the gas supply and the spark caught, and I got it to start. I think I have a leaking fuel injector. Happens when the engine is warm with residual fuel pressure, and when you try and start in anew it seems flooded.
Based upon what I saw on the spark plug from the first cylinder when I first removed it and cleaned it, I think that is the one dripping extra fuel. 
Now the debate is to try and clean them and replace the gaskets, or is this a mug's game and based upon age and mileage I should just bite the bullet and spend the money on the GB ones Rogoman recommends, and hopefully be done with this problem? Mine are 13 years old in a daily driver, and have never been serviced. I like fixing things on the cheap if I can, but I fear my efforts might be just a short term fix or pointless if they have further issues. I am leaning towards ordering the GB Reman ones and swapping them out next week. 
While stuck in traffic earlier, I heard horrible timing chain noises from a Hyundai Tucson, and a Chevy HHR, and am reassured that mine is not making anything comparable noises. The X was actually driving and idling great.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well, my wife is concerned the car won't start for her, so I am going ahead and have ordered the injectors from RockAuto. Will report back when I have changed them.
I will say thank God for RA because with tx and shipping it's costing $226 Cdn and I should get about 30 or 40 of that back with the core refunds after shipping costs. NAPA price including taxes is $729 with a $13 each core refund. Literally $500 more for the exact same GB Remanufacturing part.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Argh. I noticed the Rock Auto GB option is the same as for a Frontier and a different number than the NAPA option. The one NAPA specifies is to be found in the Altima 2.5 section. Pics I have seen of the Altima part look like the X trail ones, the Frontier ones have a long silver end tip. Altima ones are cheaper still on RockAuto but I now need to do more research to identify the right part-- X trail is a pain at times.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

On the Nissan parts catalog the fuel injector part number is 16600-AE060 or 061 or 062 for the 2006 X trail
The fuel injector from GB at rock auto is 16600-EA000 from the Frontier parts diagram.
What confuses more is that Rock auto also offers the HITACHI FIJ0001 which they say is the exact OE part for the X trail and cite the first part numbers I found).
One has an extended nozzle, and some listings on Amazon and partsmonkey show it to be the right part, whereas 
NAPA shows a different GB one that looks more like the Hitachi with no extended nozzle, and which Rockauto shows as being the right part for a 2.5 Altima.




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More Information for GB REMANUFACTURING 84212358






www.rockauto.com









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More Information for HITACHI FIJ0001






www.rockauto.com





Does it make a difference? Would both styles work?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well upon closer look I think mine are greenish under the grime, so I am going to trust Rockauto got it right. The difference is these seem to be made by Denso whereas the others were Hitachi. GB guarantees the right part for the 2006 so as that is what shows in the Carid listing as well I am ordering those and hoping for the best.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

If you suspect a fuel injector problem, first try a good injection cleaner like BG products 44K. It is a very strong cleaner so use it sparingly. If you plan to replace fuel injectors, replace all of them at once. They're very easy to replace. The brand that I've always used is GB Remanufacturing® more details on - https://www.carid.com/2006-nissan-x-trail-fuel-injectors-rails/?filter=1&sub-model[Liter][]=2.5L.
[/QUOTE]

When you say easy to replace, do you mean after I have dismounted everything including the intake manifold collector? I can' t see any shortcuts for getting the fuel tube and injector assembly out. Looks like I need to order a gasket.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

For anyone following this saga, I just phoned a Nissan parts dept for the proper injector numbers (257 each by the way) and I have no idea where the GB Frontier option comes from, but it does not show up in Nissan's part catalog in Canada. Correct part is the 16600-AE061 (060, and 062 also are good), and sure enough it was used in some Muranos, Maximas, Altimas and Infiniti models.
Last night I used a magnifying glass to identify FBJC101 on my injectors presently installed. Went back to RockAuto a few minutes ago and looked up options for a 2004 Murano, and found Beck/Arnely injectors with the exact same product number stamped on it, and its for Nissan part number 16600-AE060




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More Information for BECK/ARNLEY 1580907






www.rockauto.com





So I cancelled my previous order, and bought those. I have had good luck with Beck/Arnley stuff for the x trail, so here is to hoping. They are new parts, not remanufactured, and presently on wholesaler closeout for $45 Cdn each. So at least I have saved a bit more money for the time this took to find out.


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## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

Good information. A lot of Beck Arnley parts are OEM.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks, X-Hale, its probably overkill on my part, but it will give me a chance to inspect them all before replacing them. I am curious about what I will see. I could probably get away with replacing the O rings and cleaning them, but this way I will have new ones and the cost is pretty reasonable. Heck, even the intake gasket was on clearance at RockAUTO, and with delivery is costing $16 for the same complete Fel-Pro kit Napa is selling for $49 +tx.

With regard to the Frontier fuel injector, I will point out that even Beck/Arnley has it as the replacement for the X trail. So I am inclined to think they work even though they are not the original style part. CarID customer service kept telling me that its for XE models, but that makes no sense as I am 99% sure those have the same engines as the others sold in Canada.

All I can say is that they are for a model that came out after the discontinuation of the T30s in most markets.
Canadian dealers do not show it as the part to use in their database, and lastly, I won't assume too much about the quality of the parts but the ones in ours and that I ordered were used in most of Nissan's higher-end vehicles, whereas the other was used exclusively it seems in the lowest end variant of the Frontier. But then that could mean nothing.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

X-hale said:


> Good information. A lot of Beck Arnley parts are OEM.


Got them today and all four new in sealed boxes inside the beck/arnley boxes, and made in Japan! I think they are the Nissan part made by Hitachi
Anyhow this replacing the injectors is a fair bit more involved than I thought if I have to remove the intake manifold cover





of course, there is another guy who seems to have been able to change them in place without all of the removals. I am wondering if there is just enough space with small hands to do as this guy has


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

I guess I will be trying to figure out for myself if it can be done without removing the intake collector, The injectors are only about 2.5 inches long, and there may be a bit more room than I think. I will say that there is precious little to be found about doing this on a Nissan 2.5. Which surprises me.
With regard to the injectors-- GB manufacturing answered my question and they seem to have based their selection for the X trail from the Beck/Arnley catalog. When I sent them the product number I saw on my injectors and the NAPA listing they told me ''The numbers from the injector make it easy, that’s our 842-12239. Napa Canada has it wrong as well.''
If someone wants to contact Beck/Arnley maybe we can find out why they are specifying a new style made by Denso for the Frontier for the X trail. There is a possibility this new type might be better for gasoline with high alcohol or ethanol content, but I have not found anything about them. However one thing is clear about them, they are lacking the positioning tab for the fuel rail, and have a longer nozzle with fewer holes.
Regarding the injectors I bought, they have either 18 or 20 holes for vaporizing the fuel (hard to count they are so small). From what I understand this should be better than a 4 hole set. Might even improve gas mileage and performance a bit.
Adding this for a note to myself-- the fuel rail is the same as used on 02-06 Altimas and Sentras with the 2.5 engine.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Was in touch with the Youtube video guy who changed one in place on his 08 Altima, and he says he had enough space to remove and change the one of his that was bad, so I am going to see if I can do something similar before I dismantle so much trying to get to the intake bolts which look to be a mother to access. 
I am even wondering if I should try and have mine professionally cleaned, but I pretty sure that one is dripping after the fuel is shut off, and I do not think that cleaning will fix that. I will say that I am surprised there is no info about this and it seems few people have changed fuel injectors on their 02-06 Nissans with the 2.5.
Hopefully, I can fix that a bit


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well that was an exercise in futility as I did not have the fuel line removal tool and could not devise anything to work. Was able to get a socket on one of the fuel line rail bolts, but not on the second one on the belt side. Mind you even if you do get to it, it leaves little room to work and an easy spot to drop tools or parts. It swallowed a 12mm socket and small extension that I could not find afterwards for the life of me. To do this its probably best to actually fully remove the intake cover, but that will have to wait now.

Otomodo, your fears for my X may be correct. I checked coolant yesterday and was shocked to see the overflow empty and no coolant at the neck of the radiator. Refilled both and looked everywhere for leaks, and just not seeing any. Saw some white smoke on start up today but it was raining and cooler, and did not see any at idle when the engine was warm. No coolant smell to the exhaust, none inside the cabin, heater works fine, no bubbles in coolant or overflow. No oil in coolant or vice versa, and transmission fluid is clean. Tried to get the pressure tester again but its still out for rental. Anyway, I think its best I have a professional mechanic do some testing so scheduled to leave it on Tuesday morn. I will try to limit driving it in the meanwhile, but I am wondering if there is some Blue Devil in my near future?
Is it fair to speculate that I have a small leak around a cylinder?


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

If my memory serves me correctly, the mechanic who tested my old car, for the gasket leak, used compressed air and a nozzle inserted in the spark plug area. 
He then listened for any bubbles coming from the radiator or expansion tank. It must have been a tool he fabricated himself to be quicker on diagnostics. 

If this his your case, then it s really bad news.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

I know and am a bit worried. I will find out more on Tuesday. It was really running well, and it still drives well other than the occasional rougher start, and it feels slightly rougher at idle with a bit of engine vibration that was not there before. The good news is that there are no signs of fluids mixing but who knows. Needs pressure testing. Will keep you posted.


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

I can remember the hard start with my old car at that time. The mechanic told me it depends on where the piston stopped. If it stopped too low, the cylinder would fill more and it couldn't fire up. 

Wishing you the best.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hoping so too. Wonder what I do in case of really bad news. Do I try a gasket sealer like BlueDevil, consider having the gasket replaced, consider replacing the engine, or moving on from the X? What a pain. I thought I would get another couple of good years out of it. Everything works on it, its been well maintained and shows minimal rust.
Its killing me that I had bought a replacement radiator cap, and that because of the first no start, and the pressure seeming different in the engine, I put the old cap back on, and then it failed. Basically a little piece of rubber gasket failed, and it might just take out the car.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well, the X's is back from the doctor and got a clean bill of health. No leaks in the cooling system, nothing in the cylinders and the compression test came back 185-181-170-170, which he thought was good for its age and mileage and he even said it drove like a dream.
The mechanic noticed a bit of a rough start which he traced to 3 spark plugs being insufficiently tight and causing a compression loss. My bad I did not tighten them sufficiently out of fear my torque wrench was not working properly. Starts great and the bit of unevenness in the idle seems gone. So things are hopefully looking up.

My guess about the coolant loss now has to be that it left via the cap and got air into the system and that has been bleeding out with my coolant additions of about 2.5 L over the past week or so. I will keep on eye on it for the next while, and I will leave the fuel injectors alone for a bit . But today I am a happy man


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## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

Good news. The X lives on!


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

It lives, but yesterday decided to rev unexpectedly in park, and finally gave me a real code-- P0507 Idle air control system RPM higher than expected. Tried to do an idle relearn and no go with that then checked the service manual which basically indicated 3 possible things 1) PCV valve, 2) Air intake leak between MAF and throttle body, or 3) replace ECM.
Having replaced my air intake hose this past summer did not think it would be that, and I had even replaced the PCV valve 3 or 4 years ago as preventative maintenance. However, when I took out my PCV valve there was no rattle sound in it whatsoever. I cleaned it as best I could and went and bought a new one ( $21 with taxes at NAPA). Swapped it out and immediately upon starting the check engine light cleared, and the engine other than idling a bit fast felt normal. Did the idle relearn procedure, but still seemed a little high. I learned that it's supposed to be min 10 degrees C when doing this procedure, and it was right about that temp when I did it. However, I took it in the evening and after a bit of use it's settled and the idle in park and while driving has normalized.
I will monitor things but I am pleased that I finally got something that could account for my recent starting problems.
Stuck open PCV valve acts like a vacuum leak.
For anyone needing to replace theirs, there is no need to replace the entire valve cover. Even though Nissan, RockAuto, and NAPA do not show it, the PCV valve from a 2002 to 2006 Altima with the 2.5 engine is the exact part. Put a 23mm socket into a pair of vice grips or pliers, and use that to loosen the old one and remove it from your valve cover. ( helps if you first disconnect the injector wire harness connectors and of course the PCV valve tube)


https://www.napacanada.com/en/p/IUN29541?partTypeName=PCV+Valve&keywordInput=pcv+valve


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well, I believe it's now done the idle relearn and my goodness its starting and running great. Idle is super smooth. Hopefully, that was my issue. I don't think I need to change the injectors at all. Nor did I need to change the fuel pump or even my plugs though I am glad I did.
This may be a long thread but hopefully it's helpful to someone in terms of showing the tortuous diagnostic path for a problem when you don't have a code to guide you.
It occurs to me that others with similar age X trails might pro-actively think about changing their radiator caps and PCV valves. Two inexpensive parts that can cause major problems if and when they fail. I will be paying more attention to those as maintenance items in the future.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Guess what blocked again today--the PCV valve. There is some vaseline like clear oily sludge accumulating around its opening, and clogging it by the looks of things. I changed the oil to high mileage Valvoline synthetic could that be causing it? Moisture in the oil? I am thinking of draining it to see what it looks like but on the dipstick looks perfect? Do I need to do a seafoam treatment. Its getting mysterious.
Cleaned the valve and drives fine. Check engine light went away without me even reading the code.


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

Glad to ear your engine looked ok and you were able to point the leak in the air admission. 

A few years back i was worried about a milky substance around the oil cap on my motorcycle. After searching on the web, i found the source to be a breather tube blocked at the air box. 

Your substance could(hope) be from the leak you had on the air admission tube. 
Not having enough resistance from the air filter it couldn't aspirate the humidity from the oil(pcv valve) and it accumulated. 

On the other hand it could be a bad gasket leaking in the oil (i hope not).
Surely it was not your oil type that caused that. High mileage oil is suppose to preserve the engine by not removing all of the build up over the years(that's what i read on the internet), like the new oils. 
When i was doing 3 to 4 oils changes per year on the xtrail, i was buying whatever was on special, synthetic one time, conventional oil the next oil change and back to synthetic again. 

I don't know if i m coherent with the writing here but the autocorrect on the phone keyboard is helping a lot.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks for the answer Otomodo. The substance at the valve end of the PCV valve was more like a little glob of vaseline suspended in the oil. It's clear and when squeezed on paper towel looks like regular oil. It's not like the gray goo you get on the oil cap if you do lots of short trips, and it's not on the dip stick. My oil is slightly over the high mark, but nothing significant-- 1-2 mm.
The code I got that acted like a vacuum leak was the PCV valve being stuck open. Though yesterday briefly it acted like it was closed and the engine started making a high whining sound when I started the engine with the PCV hose disconnected and putting my finger over the end of the valve did nothing. Cleaned out the new valve that was no longer making shaking sounds, put it back in and car drove fine.
Obviously some more investigating to do. I will focus on the vacuum side of things when it warms up a bit this morn. Seems ridiculous but could there be a fault in the new PCV valve, though it seems like a pretty simple part?


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

As an engine gets old and the blowby starts to increase causing quicker contamination of the PCV. The glob of vaseline like clear oily sludge accumulating around the PCV is just further evidence of more severe blowby; it's got nothing to do with changing motor oil types. Replacing the PCV more often now because of increased blowby is just part of more preventive maintenance in order to keep an older engine running as best you can.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Should I try and install an oil catch can? What about doing a seafoam or some type of engine cleaning? I did extend the oil changes on it to 8-9 k Kms and 6 months, but I always used Mobil 1 full synthetic and good quality filters for the past 5 years, and over the past year it has burned about half a quart of oil between changes over that period.
The new pcv valve gunked up in literally a day. Something is strange that I had to clean it so soon. Drove fine last evening and for my wife this morning.
For what its worth coolant loss seems to have stopped and is staying around the full level in the reservoir tank. No bubbles, no gas smell to it and no oil contamination in the coolant.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Heard some good reports about seafoam and some say didn't help. It's worth a shot. Using 1/2 qt between oil changes is good. The PCV problem may be due to too much idling; maybe a lot of short trips without allowing the engine to fully warm up.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Going to have to do something because I just had another no start incident at the grocery store. Took a while to get it to go, and involved flooring the pedal a couple of times. I am going to check on the PCV valve shortly. I am considering bringing it to the dealership for diagnosis, but once again the check engine light is off and it drove fine on the way back. I guess it depends on who might look at it there but I am not that confident that it won't begin a fishing expedition. It's a shame that in this day and age you cannot get a 3D scan of the engine that could reveal the condition of the innards.
I did have a pressure test done that it supposedly passed with flying colours, but maybe the lower numbers in cylinders 3 and 4 which adjoin indicates a small head gasket leak there. Seems weird to be condemning an engine that had been running great, and still does for the most part. There is no signs of blowby on the air filter.


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

Inspect connections on both sensors,crank and camshaft. Maybe clean them up. 

I m out of ideas.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions and concerns guys. I am going to try the seafoam today, and change the oil again. I want to see what it looks like now when drained. It is only 2 weeks old or so, and the previous change showed no coolant in the oil whatsoever. When it starts, which is most times, it runs fine, good acceleration and no big puffs of white smoke coming out the tailpipe. I dont think its related to the crankshaft or camshaft sensors, as those it seems to me fail while the car is driving, and have it stall out but I guess it might be possible.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Hey QUAD, have you ever replaced both the CMP and CKP sensors. Those sensors have been known to fail while driving AND while trying to start it up. If you've never replaced them, it's worth a shot. As you well know they come in a kit from the dealer.

When your X'ey can't start, did you ever determine if it's a fuel or ignition problem? When you did the compression test, what were the actual readings?
According to the FSM, it should be: standard - 181 psi, minimum - 154 psi, difference between cyls - 14 psi.

Vacuum reading OK? At idle it should be 18 - 20 InHg. At 3,000 RPM, it should be 21 InHg.

Fuel pressure OK? At idle it should be around 350 kPa (51 psi).


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Rogoman
Both crank and cam sensors were replaced about 4 years ago after I had a crank sensor code. Compression test showed 185-181-170-170. I am assuming fuel pressure is fine. I will have to read how to test the vacuum.
With regards to the seafoam, what do you recommend in the crankcase and or gas or should I get the spray foam and inject that through the pcv valve house?


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Assuming is not good! Since you've been having a multitude of funny stuff happening, it's best to run through a full set of diagnostics. To check the intake system for a vacuum leak, attach a vacuum gauge to a full vacuum source. With the engine fully warmed up, the reading at idle should be 18 - 20 InHg. At 3,000 RPM, it should be 21 InHg.

The seafoam thing is probably OK to try. There's a seafoam kit called "sea foam pour & spray combo pack". Try one at a time to see any results, hoprfully it'll help.







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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

I will try but I was assuming because I did change the fuel pump, and it seems to operate fine. I think its more likely to be the vacuum side of things. I have put in the seafoam in crankcase and fuel and will take it for a good drive shortly and see if that does anything. I will also change the oil again to see if I can see any traces of coolant in it just to satisfy my curiosity/fear and clear out whatever sludge the seafoam might dissolve.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well did seafoam in the crankcase and gas, and drove about 80 miles yesterday. Ran super nice on the highway, and I will change the oil today. Problem is my coolant is still going down, and no idea where its going. And last night it did not want to start first try. I will try and see if I can bring it somewhere today to do some further testing. I would love to be able to do it all myself but I don't have the measuring tools and I had never even heard of inch of mercury as a unit of pressure.
No engine codes, no signs of leaks and no extra smoke of any colour coming out of the exhaust.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well changed the oil and really no signs of coolant in it other than a faint yellow line on the bottom of the pan when it was emptied. Car did not want to start again, and sure enough the pcv valve was clogged again. Cleaned that and got the X started though it was rough, idled a bit high around 1000, and then took it to the airport as I was picking up family. When I went to park it the idle started going up to 2000 and bouncing down to 1500 and then going up over and over again. Kept it running and did the drop off and when I got home about an hour and a half later, it was doing the same thing but reving a bit higher still.
Called Nissan to book an appointment to look at it but the earliest they can take me is in 2 weeks.
My take now is that I have an intake manifold gasket leak. Going to try and test for it tomorrow but I am not so sure how succesful I will be. 
The car was doing exactly what this one was doing, and it would explain coolant loss, vacuum leak and maybe extra moisture in my oil?




It would not be great news but better than the head gasket.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well, yesterday it finally threw some codes-- 0507, 0300, they seem to have intake leaks in common so I went for it.
I have finally gotten everything apart and must say quite a job. I will put it all back together tomorrow and hopefully, that will be easier now that I am familiar with how everything is connected.
I was surprised that both the intake manifold gaskets were fine and that it was the throttle intake one that had a bit of separation. Lots of gunk on it and in the manifold but they had not been cleaned since new. Got the new fuel injectors installed in the fuel rail waiting to go in. The Beck/Arnley are identical to the ones in mine other than having even more nozzle holes, but I must say all 4 of mine looked good with no gunk in them. I am sure they are still fine but having bought the new ones....
My fear though is that I still do not see any spot for coolant loss. I will hope for the best.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well, I am about to start reassembly. I thought I would just add a couple of thoughts even though this has become a long thread covering a number of different issues and parts.
With regard to the fuel injectors--the beck/arnley clearance ones were identical to the OE Nissan. Also, the notion to replace these without removing the manifold collector is pointless. The guy on Youtube only replaced one, and in my opinion, was lucky, and it would not be possible to get all 4 that way. Moreover, it would be easy to lose the clips that hold them to the fuel and not so obvious to install them properly.
That said its the lower part of the manifold that is the final fun bit of this job, and namely the rear center manifold support bracket it's mounted to. Yes once you have everything apart there is one last 12mm, that is buried and hidden from view and also the tightest of all of the bolts. It took me 2.5 hours of tinkering to find how to get a ratchet on it. Key finally was using my 1/2 ratchet with a small extension and a long impact socket. I was able to get it into a position that I could get some leverage and that broke it loose. Was a no go with a 1/4 or 3/8 and you do not want to risk rounding that bolt. And once you have that out, you then discover 3 more 10mm bolts that hold the vacuum container to the bottom of the manifold need to come out.
The one thing that is confusing in the service manual, is the disconnection of a power steering pressure hose. I thought they meant for you to do this to access that last bolt by going in through the right side. I disconnected it and power steering fluid was pouring out. Replugged quick but caused a bit of a mess with the ounce or so I lost. Sprayed it all with degreaser and rinsed it off with water-- hopefully, the bit that got on the serpentine belt washed off.
I will report back when everything is back together and hopefully the car is starting!


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

quadraria10 said:


> The one thing that is confusing in the service manual, is the disconnection of a power steering pressure hose. I thought they meant for you to do this to access that last bolt by going in through the right side. I disconnected it and power steering fluid was pouring out. Replugged quick but caused a bit of a mess with the ounce or so I lost. Sprayed it all with degreaser and rinsed it off with water-- hopefully, the bit that got on the serpentine belt washed off.
> I will report back when everything is back together and hopefully the car is starting!


Here's what the FSM says about the power steering pressure hose:
"Disconnect power steering piping from intake manifold, and move them aside. Refer to PS-33, "HYDRAU-
LIC LINE" .
Remove intake manifold support."

You're only moving the piping assembly away from the intake manifold, not disconnecting the hose itself.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks, Rogoman. I guess I read disconnect hydraulic line???
After my spill, I just left that side alone and attacked things from the other. Anyway, it's now done. Its the rear bracket bolts that are killer. That was the biggest mechanical job I have ever done. Now the X starts like a dream but will not accelerate past 1000 RPM or so. And the check engine light is on.
Pretty sure I have to do a throttle body and pedal relearn. If you know the procedure or pages from the service manual it would be a great help. Otherwise, I will find out what is needed tomorrow. I am too spent now, but super happy that it starts smooth, the engine seems to be running well, can't hear any vacuum leaks ( was a little worried as I had no way to get my torque wrench on two of lower manifold half's bolts, and had to go by feel), no fuel leaks, no coolant leaks from hoses.


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## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

It was a great, great day for motor car repairs. Sunny and 20°C is not bad for October 11th around here.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Actually it was a great couple of days to be working in my driveway though a bit cool in the morning. Beautiful fall weather and tomorrow is supposed to be nice as well. Hopefully, I can do the relearn procedures tomorrow morn and get the X back on the road!


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

quadraria10 said:


> Thanks, Rogoman. I guess I read disconnect hydraulic line???
> After my spill, I just left that side alone and attacked things from the other. Anyway, it's now done. Its the rear bracket bolts that are killer. That was the biggest mechanical job I have ever done. Now the X starts like a dream but will not accelerate past 1000 RPM or so. And the check engine light is on.
> Pretty sure I have to do a throttle body and pedal relearn. If you know the procedure or pages from the service manual it would be a great help. Otherwise, I will find out what is needed tomorrow. I am too spent now, but super happy that it starts smooth, the engine seems to be running well, can't hear any vacuum leaks ( was a little worried as I had no way to get my torque wrench on two of lower manifold half's bolts, and had to go by feel), no fuel leaks, no coolant leaks from hoses.


The relearn procedures can be found in section EC.PDF of the FSM; locate the topic "basic service procedure" which should have the procedures. If you don't have the FSM, you can download it from https://ownersmanuals2.com/.

The situation you have of losing coolant with no tell-tail signs may be attributed to what's called a "pisser". When coolant hoses get very old, some of them may start forming minute cracks on the surface. Some of those cracks can develop into a breach and it only shows up when fully warmed and under preasure. It becomes a small spray, hence called a pisser. If you shut off the engine, in a few minutes the pisser stops. So when you're looking for a visual indication of a coolant leak, you won't see it. The best way to locate it is while the engine is fully warmed up and running is to feel around all the hoses for any wetness.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks for the answer Rogoman. I will follow the relearn procedure without Consult II, using the key and hopefully, that works fine.
I will keep looking for a pisser in mind. I did have a coolant system pressure check done, and would have thought they check it when hot, but come to think of it the test is probably done with the engine cold.
Any idea why I actually have to do a relearn?. I disconnected the battery before disconnecting all the electrical harnesses and reconnected them before connecting the battery. How does the system know that it was disconnected?

I tried to get the engine code last night briefly, but when it went into flashing mode, it surprised me by beginning to flash, but after something like 6 blinks, it just stopped and did not repeat, which I found strange.

Just to confirm the relearn process-- I have to do the Accelerator Pedal release position learning, throttle valve closed position learning and then the idle air volume learning-- I have printed out those pages from the service manual.


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

A few years ago I topped up the expansion tank, because of this thread, i took a better look at it and found out that it needs to be topped again. 
I hope it s not burning some.
Since i don't drive it that much( it s motorcycle season)and it s parked uphill, i check the oil at work on the parking lot and never noticed the level that low. Now it s at the minimum level. I think(hope) it s the normal evaporation in the tank, but i ll keep this thread on my favorites for future info.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

quadraria10 said:


> Any idea why I actually have to do a relearn?. I disconnected the battery before disconnecting all the electrical harnesses and reconnected them before connecting the battery. How does the system know that it was disconnected?
> 
> Just to confirm the relearn process-- I have to do the Accelerator Pedal release position learning, throttle valve closed position learning and then the idle air volume learning-- I have printed out those pages from the service manual.


The ECU contains something called Flash memory which retains data for an extended period of time, regardless of whether a flash-equipped device is powered on or off, so when you disconnect the battery for a short period of time, the ECU retains it's data.

The drive-by-wire throttle system is what electronically attaches the throttle to the gas pedal. When the car is shut off, it goes into something called "sleep mode" meaning that some components are still in constant communication with the ECU; the drive-by-wire throttle system is one of them. When you unplug the throttle position sensor at the pedal or unplug the connector at the throttle body, communication is lost which the ECU then places it in fail-safe. So now you have to perform the relearning.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks for the explanation. I went to do the procedure this morn, and after warming it up and trying suddenly it would not start. Followed the suggestion and checked PCV valve and it was clogged again with no obvious signs of oil on it. I am thinking it's defective. I also noticed some wet from one of the hoses that plug into the throttle body opening, and I think that might be the seeper hose, as it seems to drip only once the car is warm, and then it falls on top of the transmission. I will have to replace it.
So I cleaned the valve again, it starts up but is in safe mode and will not rev past 1500 and idles high around 1000, and despite trying the procedure now four times, its not taking. The check engine light is on but when I try and get a code from it all it does is blink 5 times and then goes solid and its just not giving me the code. I will read more in the service manual. I am very frustrated at this point


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## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

I would try disconnecting and reconnecting all the harnesses just in case one is not snapped together correctly.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

OK I am stumped. I have 3 codes, P0123, P0223, and P2119, all three relate to the throttle body. High voltage reading from the Throttle position sensor. And of course these codes make the car go into safe mode, hence the non revs. So everything now points to the throttle body control actuator. I cleaned the heck out of it with first brake cleaner and then proper throttle body cleaner but never moved it or opened the valve any. I am unclear what to look for now? Do I remove it again? Could I have damaged it?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

X-hale said:


> I would try disconnecting and reconnecting all the harnesses just in case one is not snapped together correctly.


Thank you for being smarter than me XHale, I just went to look and guess what harness was not fully clicked closed? I think I will try the relearn process now and see if it takes.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

The bloody saga continues. It starts and accelerates now but I am still getting the revs bouncing up to 2K in park or neutral, and idles around 1K. The relearn process did not take and I still have a check engine light so I will have to investigate more. For some reason, I am not getting the codes the manual method and my elm code reader freezes half the time but it will eventually work.
I may have to bring it somewhere next week. The problem here is that the winterizing rush has begun and it is hard to book a quick appointment. Also went by Napa and ordered another PCV valve as well as the small cooling hose that connects to the front tube on the throttle body (only 4.99 but there are none in Canada at the moment). At least it's starting and driving, so I will try and limit its use until I can figure out the problem, but I should be able to make it to Thanksgiving dinner at my Mom's tomorrow eve.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

The relearning procedures are very detailed. They need to be followed precisely. The FSM states a certain sequence of the procedures shown below. Maybe you didn't follow the sequence.

1. Perform EC-77, "Accelerator Pedal Released Position Learning" .
2. Perform EC-78, "Throttle Valve Closed Position Learning" .
3. Perform EC-78, "Idle Air Volume Learning" .


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestion but I am pretty sure I am following the procedure correctly. I should receive a new PCV valve today. I think there is a good possibility my other new one is defective, or that I have damaged the spring inside it by pushing my cleaner nozzle too far in the valve a few times now. If so I am going to have a laugh at myself. I will have replaced a number of parts because of a bad PCV, and if the new one goes bad shortly I have deeper issues.
All told I have installed a new ( defective) PCV valve, changed spark plugs, changed oil and filter, changed fuel pump assembly, did a seafoam treatment in crankcase and gas tank and next day a second oil change, cleaned throttle body, changed its gasket as well as the two in the intake manifold, and replaced the fuel injectors. Plus I have paid to have a compression test done as well as a coolant system pressure test.

Some of this I was happy to do and consider maintenance, but it would have been a bit of a financial nightmare if I was paying a garage to the above
Cost so far with taxes and delivery fees
PCV-- $21
Synthetic Oil and filter--40 ( already had a spare filter on hand and had enough leftover Mobil 1 and Valvoline to do a second complete change for free)
Spark plugs --28
Seafoam treatment--13
Fuel Pump assembly( used but with a replaced fuel pump)-- $30
Fuel injectors and intake gaskets from RockAuto on clearance--$215
Jug of coolant --15
So basically $365 in parts and frankly another 100+ on a new torque wrench, fuel release tool, gasket scraper, and throttle cleaner, and nitrile gloves. Plus the $124 at a garage for tests. Hopefully, I can wrap up this thread soon!


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well, I gave it a break yesterday, but I would like to figure out the issue today. My attempts at an idle relearn have not worked. I have not cleared my engine codes but they are all 3 still related to the throttle body harness not having been connected properly. Still those are no longer in effect as the car is not in safe mode and accelerates, and drives. However, it still seeks to rev up to 2K and bounce down to 1500 K when placed in Park, and keeps doing this. Idle is steady when driving, simply high at around 1000.
Basically it's acting like it did right before I decided to change the injectors and intake gaskets, even though it's starting well. I am thinking I have to dive back into the engine bay, dismantle stuff and try and further torque all of the manifold bolts, as well as the throttle body. I am worried that the 14 ft-lb torque spec is not strong enough. I reused the old bolts, but I cannot see how those could be stretch bolts and the service manual does not specify they should be replaced. I tightened in two passes with the first pass being at around 10 ft-lbs, and then at the correct 14 and then a last insurance click on them all in the proper sequence.
My question is, if I don't hear a vacuum leak there, and the engine is steady in gear at idle, is there a possibility of an intake manifold gasket leak?
Otherwise what I will try first is to do the idle target value and then the idle relearn.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Found this comment on a 1-A auto video on changing the throttle body on a 2005 Altima. Seen a similar comment elsewhere, and a person who said this worked for theirs-- so one more potential step

''Another important point to note: If the engine is idling too fast (like after the throttle body has been cleaned), then the ECU will NOT perform the programming. Therefore, Nissan says (NTB05-067) to unplug fuel injectors to lower idle speed. For example, on a 4 cyl, unplug #2 & #4 injectors. Do not rev up motor because it will set a code with the injectors unplugged, just immediately do the programming shown in this video and shut it off. Then plug the injectors back in and start the motor to confirm if programming was successful. Good luck, our $10,000 scan tool didn't even list an X Trail.'' 
Here is a link to that bulletin, and I definitely cleaned the heck out of the throttle body which was quite dirty.
https://alflash.com.ua/for/NTB05-067.pdf


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Maybe there is too much info on the internet but I have just read how cleaning the throttle body can remove a special anti-sludge coating on the inside face that basically damages it. What I saw on mine was an actual grey sludge coating that I cleaned off by spraying it with brake and throttle body cleaner while I had it out of the car. Could this have damaged it?


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Not sure if Nissan throttle bodies have this "anti-sludge" coating. However spraying it with throttle body cleaner should not have caused any damage. I would avoid using brake cleaner as it rapidly dries too fast leaving residue still there.

You can clean the throttle body all you like, but the fact is, if your engine is worn and creating a lot of blow-by, your intake and throttle body will continue to get dirty. Don't remove the throttle body to clean it; you don't need to. Cleaning your throttle body likely won't do anything to solve an idle problem.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Rogoman-- the point was I cleaned the throttle body and need to reset it. What I am wondering is, is mine defective or damaged from the cleaning I did. From my research its pretty common to have idling issues on a Nissan after cleaning the throttle body or just disconnecting it. I take it from your response that this is unlikely I damaged it by spraying it with cleaner.
While I guess the worn engine blowby you keep bringing up is possible, it makes no sense to me that the engine can run well, and does even now, if that is the case. It starts up great now and seems to have good power, its just idling too high to do the learning process, and the idle is going up and down between 1500 and 2000 in park. Hoping it will warm up outside so I can try the processes anew.
Otherwise I want to clear the codes, and try pulling injectors to lower the idle into the target range as per the service bulletin. I will figure this out!


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

The saga continues but there is light at the end of the tunnel. Part of my frustration is that my old elm code reader is now glitchy and haphazard in its ability to connect to the ECU and remain so. So I ordered a cheapo code reader off amazon but of course, its somehow lost in delivery.
Last I looked no new codes but I still had the idle way high and bouncing up and down in Park and Neutral. I decided that maybe the issue is actually the throttle body controller, went to Kenny U Pull that got a couple of Xs last week and pulled one that looked pretty good. Installed it in mine and after an accelerator and throttle position relearn it started up. Thought it did nothing, drove around a bit and when I got back to the driveway and put it in Park-- the revs were steady at 1k and no more idle bouncing. So hopefully I can do an idle relearn today and we will be back in business.

With regard to the throttle body-- a lot of videos or website descriptions say to use an Allen key or hex bit with your ratchet, but the reality is the bolts are Torx and T30 specifically and if you want to remove them without stripping them or want to install them tightly, you need a specific Torx bit. There is a distinct possibility that I had not sufficiently tightened by Throttle body after cleaning and reinstalling it, and that was causing a bit of a vacuum leak. However, I am unsure why that would only show when in Park or neutral if that was, in fact, the case.

Regarding blow by-- my X is definitely showing signs of it. I could see some fresh droplets of clear oily sludge on the back of the throttle plate. That said compression and acceleration are still good. I am going to purchase and install an oil catch can, and see if it can be managed. The poor car like me is getting older...
With regard to an oil catch can, I found one Chinese video for doing so on a T31 X trail, and whatever anyone does-- do not follow that guy's instructions as he hooks it all up wrong and does not seem to have a clue how it should function. I am curious about how to place and set one up best, and how to T into the PCV hose. Anyone seen pics or a how to for the QR25DE?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Spoke too quickly. Just back from a drive in slow traffic and when I parked in the driveway, revs started to increase to 2K and then started doing the same idling up and down in the 1.5 to 2 K range. Argh!!!!


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Ok-- good news, its running great, bad news I am an idiot and its official. I was running it with the MAF disconnected.
Anyway, it just would not do the relearn, was bucking if I tried to accelerate, idling way high, so I tried doing the disconnecting fuel injectors and that lowered the idle but it was not great and the check engine light was on.

I was seriously thinking of dynamiting the thing when the courier pulled up with my new scan tool. Gave me the new codes and pending ones, and 2 minutes later I plugged in the harness that I had pushed back to get at the throttle body bolts. Started up like a charm, still idling a bit high but the engine was cold. Took it out for a spin, and lo and behold the throttle response was back, 4 stop signs later it was idling around 650-700. Drove for half an hour, ran great, and idled normally in park. Oh Happy Day. Until the next crisis, but that will get its own new thread!

My conclusion as to what began all this was the throttle body actuator or whatever its called became defective, but its been one heck of a tune-up.


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