# 1/4 mile times?



## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

Im wondering about what a 240sx with a SR20DET(blacktop) with a LSD and about 4grand in basic mods would run? and what would be some good mods that would cost about 4g total?


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

low 13's.

Turbo
Exhaust
Intercooler
Boost control


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## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

I am asuming that you mean upgrade to stock turbo? and if so what would be a good turbo to get?


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## gold240 (Dec 3, 2002)

$4k wouldn't exactly be "basic" mods


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

Codeman781 said:


> *I am asuming that you mean upgrade to stock turbo? and if so what would be a good turbo to get? *


depends on how much money you want to spend on ur turbo. keep in mind when upgrading turbo, a whole bunch of stuff will be needed as well.. i know joel already posted some things, but i'll go just a lil overboard  fmic upgrade, downpipe/exhaust upgrade, boost controller, upgraded injectors, stand alone/piggyback fuel management, maybe a fuel pump/fpr, z32 maf and filter, radiator/fan so engine won't overheat, clutch if u need


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## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

is the stock suspension on a 240sx any good? and how important is it to upgrade the suspension? cause im not sure exactly how much money im going to do my 240 with a SR20DET..depends on what i get for my car now...so would it be better to upgrade as much as a can on the SR20DET before it goes into the car and is easier to work on, or get a good suspension and modify the engine as i go along?


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

240sx stock suspension is AWESOME. you will no problems running with stock suspension and sr20det. once you start making big power or just want ur 240 to have a better stance, just get some nice coilovers (apexi n-1, tein ha, jic flt-a2,etc)


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## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

Ok thats good...thanks for the help...i would rather put that money torward the engine anyway...that way i can go faster


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## SleepERr (May 20, 2003)

Don't forget brakes, get good brakes, like the z32 conversion. It will be very well worth it. A lot of people think about the engine, and thats it, untill they set their stock brakes on fire. (Like me  )


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## BlueBOB (Jan 29, 2003)

SleepERr said:


> *Don't forget brakes, get good brakes, like the z32 conversion. It will be very well worth it. A lot of people think about the engine, and thats it, untill they set their stock brakes on fire. (Like me  ) *


haha... yeah... learn from him... brakes are a very good mod... need to be able to stop the power.... haha

or just have your wheel fall off and only be able to pray to stop... lol


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## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

haha..."on fire"...nice....ok i will remeber that...does brembo make a set of brakes for 240's?? and if not what would be the best to get besides the Z32 conversion?


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## BlueBOB (Jan 29, 2003)

I'm not sure if they make anything for the 240, but Willwood is a great brake company. They make nice 4 and 6 piston calipers (6 pistons... :drool.

The Z32 is probably the most supported and well known. Plus it's easy to get brake pads for it and it's a 4 piston setup.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

i dont' think brembo makes any for the 240. but for z32, yup. (even though they are rather costly..)


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## BlueBOB (Jan 29, 2003)

brembo's in general are costly period, unless you come across the deal of the century (like I did). I can say as a definite fact that it was the most extreme night and day difference when my buddy went from his stock rotors and calipers to R32 rotors and calipers (and yes I did say R32). The R32 are supposed to be only slightly wider than the Z32 rotors and calipers. Most Nissan techs will tell you that they are identical. I'm not 100% sure either way.


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## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

Where can i find Z32 brakes? and about how much does the entire thing cost?


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

you could try some junk yards but they will be rare.. a lot ppl are doing the z32 brakes (i blame scc) if you do find some used ones, you can buy a z32 rebuild kit from nissan for under 50 bux (i'm not sure of the actual cost but i know that they don't cost over 50bux) you can get these kits from either ur nissan dealership, napa, or maybe even autozone/checkers/kragens

if you can't find any used ones, ur best bet is to buy new ones from nissan.. i have no idea how much they would cost

z32 brakes from brembo or any other after market brake company could work as well.. just check to see that ur new brakes will clear your wheels/suspension before you install them. one drawback = cost

also for z32 brakes, you will likely have to redrill your rotors. z32 has 5x114.3 and 240sx has 4x114.3


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## BlueBOB (Jan 29, 2003)

if you're gonna spend the money on z32 brakes, you might as well go with a 5 lug conversion (if your 240 is 4 lug, SE's are 5). The 4x114.3 bolt pattern was a good idea, but so few companies make wheels that fit that. If you do the conversion, your selection of wheels grows incredibly.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

BlueBOB said:


> *if you're gonna spend the money on z32 brakes, you might as well go with a 5 lug conversion (if your 240 is 4 lug, SE's are 5). The 4x114.3 bolt pattern was a good idea, but so few companies make wheels that fit that. If you do the conversion, your selection of wheels grows incredibly.  *


 yup


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## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

if i have an SE (5lug) will i still have to redrill my rotors to put the new brakes on?


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## HondaHater (Aug 27, 2003)

vsp3c said:


> *240sx stock suspension is AWESOME. you will no problems running with stock suspension and sr20det. once you start making big power or just want ur 240 to have a better stance, just get some nice coilovers (apexi n-1, tein ha, jic flt-a2,etc) *


isnt the 240 stock suspension the same as the silvia stock suspension???


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

Codeman781 said:


> *if i have an SE (5lug) will i still have to redrill my rotors to put the new brakes on? *


no

hondahater: i believe they do


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## HondaHater (Aug 27, 2003)

indeed, that's why they awesome, at least nissan left that in there. unlike the sr20 they took out on america


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## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

how much better would brembo's be compaired to just the regular Z32 brakes? and would u only need them on the front, or all around??


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

amazingly different.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

Joel said:


> *amazingly different. *


unfortunately, the same could be said for the price..


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

you get what you pay for...
My mates R32 GTR has the R33 vspec2 brembos on it - it stops stupidly fast!


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## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

how much of a price differnce would there be between the brembo's and the Z32's?? and about how much does each cost??


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

new oem z32 calipers + discs + master cylinder = about 500-700$

used z32 brakes = it really depends..

brembo z32 gran turismo brakes (the best brembos out there..for a z32 at least) = 3,000$ 

i'm sure you can buy brembo z32 rotors/calipers but i'm not sure of the costs on those..

rotora is another company that you can check out for aftermarket brakes


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## djmamayek (Aug 26, 2003)

4k in mods:

Engine overhaul with arias pistons and pauter or eagle rods: $1500.00

custom exhaust: 3" straight pipe w/ magnaflow or dynomax muffler $400

3" Down Pipe: $200

Manual Boost Controller: $50

Boost Gauge: $50

Custom exh manifold from SFP & Garret t3/t4 (50trim GT series BB turbo would be a quicker spooling unit): $1100 (with wastegate)

Intercooler, fuel pump, injectors, AFC: $1000

Total: $4300.00


This will make for a 400 plus hp car.... Daily drivable.


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## djmamayek (Aug 26, 2003)

Oh,.... Brakes..... well since I already broke the budget. Cut a hole in the floorpan and mount a 2"x4" on a pivot..... when you need to stop pull up on your new brake.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

where did that come from?? 

btw you forgot to upgrade turbos, the fuel system, drivetrain (if you can't put all that power to the ground, what's point? right?), fuel/engine management system, and the cost to tune everything. it takes a quite a lot to build a 400hp car..


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## djmamayek (Aug 26, 2003)

vsp3c said:


> *where did that come from??
> 
> btw you forgot to upgrade turbos (GARETT T3/T4), the fuel system (FUEL PUMP AND INJECTORS), drivetrain (if you can't put all that power to the ground, what's point? right?), fuel/engine management system (APEX AFC), and the cost to tune everything(FREE AS STATED BELOW). it takes a quite a lot to build a 400hp car..(YA DON'T SAY) *


Did you read my post?

Go back, and I think you will clearly see that all of the things you just mentioned are in the post....  I put them all in after the things in your post to make it abundantly clear.


It does take alot to make 400hp.... In fact it takes just about all of the things I listed right there. 

You only need to upgrade one turbo on an SR motor. There is nothing to upgrade on the drivetrain as long as you arent constantly smoking the tires off the car.

You can tune the car yourself for damn near free (the cost of the gas).... Contrary to popular opinion you don't need a dyno to tune a car (while it may be the best option).... You can do it yourself with a little know how, elbow grease, a datalogger and a g-tech.

I know this combo of items is good for 370-400hp well tuned on a dsm....


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## silzilla (Oct 21, 2003)

Actually. At the shop I work at, when people want to make 400hp out of theyre 4 cylinder I usually tell them that it will cost them around 7-8 thousand in parts alone. A good turbo setup for the sr20 cost 6-8 thousand. Internals are around $1500. but once you have the internals you have to do all the machining to the block and crank, and then you have to put the rotating assembly together and have it balanced, deck the block/head, port and polish the head (as long as its apart) Now youve missed the $300. gasket kit, and the $450.00 black metal bearings, and the $500-$1000 in machining. People that want good HP out of theyre SR20 or any other 4 cylinder usually leave my shop spending anywhere from 10,000-$20,000 But when your done you will be able to push 400whp as a daily and up to around 600-700 on the track with good reliability.

The first car I built with 375whp was a Toyota MR2, and I tried to do it on the cheap. Then The exhaust turbine exploded from too much heat(because I went cheap on the intercooler, and turbo, and tried to milk my stock injectors) The exhaust impeller exploding caused the bearing to wobble and the intake impeller made contact with the housing which sent chunks of metal through my intercooler and then eventually through my motor where they became imbedded in the aluminum head and what did escape just went into my oiling system and ruined all of my rings and bearings. Cost to fix?

New block $500.00
New Head $400.00
New pistons $600.00
new bearings$100.00
new gaskets $350.00
new turbo(greddy T67) $5700.00
new intercooler(Greddy) $900.00
machining $400.00

Anyways point is it will cost you more to not do it right the first time and doing it right takes a lot of cash.

but if you want to go build some ghetto cruiser and tune it "seat of the pants" then be my guest. Just dont come in these forums crying for people to help you determine what that knocking noise is on your motor.


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## BlueBOB (Jan 29, 2003)




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## djmamayek (Aug 26, 2003)

silzilla said:


> New block $500.00
> New Head $400.00
> New pistons $600.00
> new bearings$100.00
> ...



Why would you EVER pay $5700 for a fucking GREEDY turbo? You could have a custom manifold made, have a tial wastegate and a garret gt ball bearing turbo for just over 2k!!! You would have to be completely retarded to ever pay that kind of money for a turbo. I love people who think that just because it says HK$ or Greedy on the side its good...  Not to mention the fact that who would want to run a t67 on the street on a 2.0L? It would spool up at like 6000 rpm.... worthless for anything but drag. With a garret gt series you can have the same amount of power for less money and faster spoolup.

A gt-35 turbo with manifold, o2 housing, and wastegate from agp turbos would cost me $2100.... You could have an intercooler made for $500. 

I have never built an SR motor, but I doubt prices are too much higher than the stuff for my 4g63.... That motor will be putting out 400ish when it is all put back together and it has only cost me 5k for turbo, pistons, rods, machining, intercooler, injectors, dsmlink, fuel pump, plus a whole second parts car!!!!

Basically what I am saying is if you are going to spend 8k for parts that have brand names on them and have the car tuned by someone else then you have either never touched a wrench yourself or are afraid to get a little grease under your nails.

Silzilla- don't you have an RB swap? I would think you of all people would be able to search for companies that can build what you need for half the price of shipping junk in from japan.... Companies like South Florida Performance can build you a manifold. Turbonetics can easily get you a turbo to fit the mani.... 
But then again I guess you would have to do some research and know something about turbochargers to order something from turbonetics since they dont just have a kit all ready to go. I guess the lazy people in the end have to pay out the ass for a lesser performing turbo.

  

Dont worry, I would never come on these forums asking a chode like you for help with my motor.... If you're gonna charge me 10k for a rebuild then you can go blow a goat.

Don't insult my intelegence.... With proper datalogging equipment and an el-cheapo g-tech you can tune a car almost as well as anyone else. 

Oh, and don't come on these boards playing high and mighty telling all these newbies what they should be doing when you yourself have no idea.

BTW nice story about the MR2.... albeit fiction.


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## TheVodKA (Sep 19, 2002)

Ehh....I may as well throw in my 2 cents.

There is a part of the drivetrain you'll unquestionably have to upgrade, that being the clutch. You'll also have to upgrade the suspension quite a bit if you intend on putting that kind of power down to the ground and actually getting good 1/4s out of it. 

However, you definitely will never need a T67 turbo for anything but the largest of applications. A nice (middle - to large size, about 60 trim .82 ar) T3/t04e w/ a ball bearing center section will do you quite well, and they can make over 400 hp. There are ones that can even make over 500. You also have to mention the amount of tuning required to achieve such a #, its not going to come just by bolting parts on. A larger MAF (Z32), fuel, and probably ignition system will be necessary besides all the go fast parts, as well as the tuning and time on the dyno to put that all together. Mucho other parts, like cams (and maybe headwork,) underdrive pulleys, and more than I can account for will be needed. The sr can do those #s on stock internals, just make sure you don't hold it at that when you're driving, otherwise its future is uncertain.

A couple of other things, we usually don't upgrade 02 housings on our cars. Dunno why, I think thats more of a DSM thing, maybe we have no need, or maybe they're integrated, I haven't exactly researched. Glad you mentioned SFP though, they do good work. JGS is not a bad choice either for a pretty nice T3/T4 sr20det mani


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

i got silzila, bluebob, and vodka behind me.. dsm's are different from sr's


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## SleepERr (May 20, 2003)

I wish stupidity was painfull, I really do.


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## djmamayek (Aug 26, 2003)

vsp3c said:


> i got silzila, bluebob, and vodka behind me.. dsm's are different from sr's



No Shit!

They are obviously different. However given their rather extensive similarities, one would be forced to believe that they're potential is EXTREMELY similer. And since we have all seen the mag's with SR's and DSM's putting down 400+ in street trim we all know that it is true.

I am not trying to start a pissing contest, I am simply applying the knowledge that I have gained from the dsm community to the SR motor.

BTW a 60 trim .83a/r gt-30 would be more than enough turbo to put an SR into the 400 range... Probably into the low 500's. Dan Cokic's dsm in last years SCC shootout was running a gt-30 and put down 533hp... An SR with the same turbo and preparations would easily put down VERY similer numbers.

Jeez, my only argument was that you don't need to buy products that say GREEDY or HK$ on the side, and that you definitely dont need to buy a t67 for a damn 2.0L street car.... You are paying too much for something that may not even perform as well as something else you would pay less than half for, with a nice tubular manifold.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

> who would want to run a t67 on the street on a 2.0L? It would spool up at like 6000 rpm.... worthless for anything but drag


then why do you need 400-500hp?? i know i don't need 400-500hp for just driving around.. i would be happy if my 240 put 250hp to the wheels. you don't need that much power unless you were doing something with your car other than daily driving..such as track driving, dragging, drifting (even in drifting, you don't need that much power..), etc. also, the majority of the people on these boards use their cars for daily driving.. not to drag race. no matter how cheap you can get a custom made manifold and a garrett turbo charger, a lot of ppl would rather use the money on something else. something like..a house maybe? or some money for your kids' college? if we had benjamins rolling around the house lilke dust bunnies, having a 500hp sr20det powered car wouldn't be too bad. unfortunately, not all of us have the money to spend in our toys..

imo, i think the reason why ppl buy hks, trust (greddy), or any other name brand parts are because of prestige. yeah, you can make the same power using a different turbo charger and saved a grand or two, but having a big name company with a big rep just feels good. when you open the hood, ppl would go.. "wow...hks...nice." if you got a no name turbo, ppl would say, "stock turbo off some other car?", no matter how much power it made.. why do ppl want nice cars?? most of them want nice cars so they can feel like they're better than other ppl (not in a bad way) you may disagree w/ me and say, "ppl wastes money on a hks turbo because they are all newbs and do not know about turbo. they just go with whatever comes up in their monthly scc". then tell me why guys who own those cars uses hks/greddy/etc parts?? i'm sure those guys are smart enuff to understand that they could save a couple of grand by going with other companies, but the still chose those expensive brand name parts.. why?? of course you don't HAVE to buy products taht say greddy or hks on the side but it's just the feeling of having something nice you know?? it just makes you smile whenever you look at your car because you worked so hard for it and achieved something great.. at least something great in your own book.


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## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

Ok this is the setup that i am shooting for...Please feel free to interject if you think that i am off on something, or something should be changed. I am looking to spend between 9-10grand on the engine/install.
1. SR20DET Black Top(95-98) Front Clip $3500;(or should I go Red top, or older black top and use the saved money to upgrade turbo??...and if not will the T28 be sufficient for around 350hp?)
2.Install and dyno tuning($1300-$1800 w/ AC and PS and parts)
3.Apex or Greddy or HKS FMIC $900 (Which is Better??, and is there anything better than those choices?)
4.Apex AVCR Boost Control $500
5.Blitz BOV w/ hotpipe $320
6.Engine Overhaul w/ pistons and Rods $1500
7.Z32 MAF $150
8.3" Downpipe $200
9.Custom Exhaust w/ Apex Muffler $400
10.Unorthodox pulley set $250
11.Koyo or Fluidyne Radiator and FAL Dual Fans $600 (i live in Florida and its hot as hell)
11. Apex AFC $300
12. Walbro Fuel Pump $100
13. Intake $125 (what is a good one?)
14. I would like to put Bigger Injectors on, but i think i might be outa money. so should i go injectors and take somethin else out? or put injectors on later?
15.SPEC Stage 2 Clutch $250
(suspension will be next)
Total=$10,000
I would appreciate any feedback on a setup that u all think would be better Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

1. S14 black top sr20det's have 2 different t28's. some are sleeve bearing and some are ball bearing..ball bearings are better. also, t28 will max out around 250-270hp.. i would personally go with a redtop. you'll save about a grand by going red instead of black

2. install + dyno. as long as you got the money

3. apexi vs greddy vs hks. you forgot blitz.. apexi is king of FMIC's but they are all good and will get the job done w/ no problem.

4. boost controller: they all do the same thing. preferably w/ swap

5. bov w/ hot pipe. your choice really.. 320$ is normal

6. pistons/rods. will be needed anyways after you put a couple of miles on the sr or if you are making some power. i would recommend you do this before the swap if possible.

7. z32 maf. good pick..also, better when done during swap

8. downpipe. sr clips don't come with exhaust piping so you'll have to do this during swap.

9. exhaust. during swap.

10. pulleys. mmm..torque

11. raditor / fans. koyo is good.. flexalite black magic is a good fan.. MUST @ swap

12. apexi afc. yeah it's a fuel controller but they don't go with nissans very well.. if you got the money, apexi pfc. replaces ecu so no more annoying ecu tuning. new costs ~1g, used~600-800$. definately worth it. i have also heard good things about greddy emanage..cheap too

13. fuel pump. nice

14. intake. as long as you got the z32 maf, your intake is good to go. a good filter..apexi, k&n, hks.. apexi is good and cheap

15. injectors are a must w/ new fuel pump and boost controller. 555cc is a good size. if you go bigger than 555cc, get a new fuel rail..555cc is just about all a stock rail can handle

16. clutch. act strip/street is also nice

imo, you got things in a mixed order..
1. sr20det
2. down pipe w/ swap
3. exhaust w/ swap
4. radiator/fans w/ swap
5. boost controller w/ swap if you want
6. z32 maf
7. intake
8. fmic w/ swap if you want
9. pistons/rod
10. clutch
11. bov w/ hot pipe
12. boost controller
13. fuel pump
14. fuel injectors
15. fuel/engine management
16. pulleys. you can throw it in any where but it was the last on my list
also, suspension should be between the swap and a power upgrade. lsd also comes into play if you start making some power.. lots more money than you expected..


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

Codeman781 said:


> Ok this is the setup that i am shooting for...Please feel free to interject if you think that i am off on something, or something should be changed. I am looking to spend between 9-10grand on the engine/install.
> 1. SR20DET Black Top(95-98) Front Clip $3500;(or should I go Red top, or older black top and use the saved money to upgrade turbo??...and if not will the T28 be sufficient for around 350hp?)
> 2.Install and dyno tuning($1300-$1800 w/ AC and PS and parts)
> 3.Apex or Greddy or HKS FMIC $900 (Which is Better??, and is there anything better than those choices?)
> ...


-Dont bother with the engine overhaul if you are getting a s14 or s15 engine.
-Get injectors - 550cc at least. Sard are good, cheap and bolt right in.
-Get a better clutch. Something like a 5 to 9 puck ceramic button, 2500LBS clamping pressure
-If you go a red top get a S15 T28 (Garrett GT2510)
-If you get a proper dyno tune you wont need the AFC
-If you get a Jap brand cooler kit you dont need the blitz hot pipe. If you just get a cooler you will need custom piping.
-Get some proper brakes - swap the DET ones if you are getting a front cut.
-Get new spark plugs and all filters.
-Trust pod filter is one of the better ones - dont get an HKS mushroom, they only filter out small animals and birds.


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

*shakes fist at vsp3c*


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## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

I was planning on putting on all the parts with the swap. So vsp3c u think that i should get the Red top and put a new turbo on instead of getting a black top right?? If so what would be the best turbo that isnt expensive as hell and wouldnt have bad lag but would still get me into the 350-400hp range with the correct setup?? And i know eventually that the car will cost me way more than 10grand, but i was looking to spend 10grand right off the start on the engine/install/performance parts, my plan was to do the engine etc.(the 10G on that) then do the suspension after i got some more money. Thanks


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## SleepERr (May 20, 2003)

Are you taking into account labor, or are you going to do this your self? If you are having a shop do it, its not hard for labor to approach if not exceed what you spent on parts. Also, make sure you save some money for any problems that may come up in mid swap, just because you hear about every one doing all these successful swaps doesn’t mean that they did not encounter any problems along the way. So my advice is to play it safe and don’t buy all the parts at once, make sure you have a cushion to protect you from going into debt just to finish a project car/ daily driver. Just my 2 cents.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

Joel said:


> *shakes fist at vsp3c*


 i wish i was as wise as joel..

well, joel just mentioned the s15 t28 if you're going to get a redtop. i don't think that turbo will get you to 350-400hp range tho.. there are lots of good turbos out there..just look around


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## djmamayek (Aug 26, 2003)

VS3pc there is no prestige in knowing you got ripped off paying way to much for lower quality parts. Personally I think it makes you look like a ricer if you have hks, greedy, etc parts on your car.... my $.02. There is however ALOT of prestige in learning something about what you are doing, and making a setup yourself. You sound alot cooler telling someone that it is a garret gt-25 with a .49a/r and it flows 44lb/min which is good for about 380hp at about 22psi with a decent, not razors edge, but decent tune.


Although it is fairly obvious that you are a ricer.... In HK$ we trust.... I don't care how good it is as long as it came from Japan, right?


BTW SCC recomends the disco potato turbo for the sr20... a Garret GT series turbo. NOT HKS.

If you have got better things to spend your money on then why did you buy the hks upgrades for your RB???? Hmmm... is that hypocricy that I smell.... Must be.


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## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

Joel said:


> -Dont bother with the engine overhaul if you are getting a s14 or s15 engine.
> -Get injectors - 550cc at least. Sard are good, cheap and bolt right in.
> -Get a better clutch. Something like a 5 to 9 puck ceramic button, 2500LBS clamping pressure
> -If you go a red top get a S15 T28 (Garrett GT2510)
> ...



You said dont bother with the engine overhaul if im getting a s14 or s15 but if i get a red or black top outa an s13 should i do the overhaul??


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

djmamayek said:


> BTW SCC recomends the disco potato turbo for the sr20... a Garret GT series turbo. NOT HKS.


Garrett make the HKS turbos.

I wish everyone would stop using this stupid 'Disco Potato' name.


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

Codeman781 said:


> You said dont bother with the engine overhaul if im getting a s14 or s15 but if i get a red or black top outa an s13 should i do the overhaul??


You dont have to but if you are planning big power from the start its probably a good idea to. SR's have a habit of throwing bearings when they are mistreated and old.

I personally know of a few SR's that are running large power figures without internals or rebuild - but their owners dont expect them to last very long.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

djmamayek said:


> VS3pc there is no prestige in knowing you got ripped off paying way to much for lower quality parts. Personally I think it makes you look like a ricer if you have hks, greedy, etc parts on your car.... my $.02. There is however ALOT of prestige in learning something about what you are doing, and making a setup yourself. You sound alot cooler telling someone that it is a garret gt-25 with a .49a/r and it flows 44lb/min which is good for about 380hp at about 22psi with a decent, not razors edge, but decent tune.
> 
> 
> Although it is fairly obvious that you are a ricer.... In HK$ we trust.... I don't care how good it is as long as it came from Japan, right?
> ...


just got back after 4hours of bball tournament.. will argue tomorrow.. :cheers:


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## BlueBOB (Jan 29, 2003)

ooh... this is gonna hurt...

I can't wait to read what others might say when they find out that you think HKS is rice... this could get interesting...


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

so why do ppl keep buying HKS stuff?? like i said before, these guys (the guys with cars in mags) obviously knows A LOT of stuff about cars..probably more than me or you (generalization..no pun intended). i'm sure that they know that going with garrett and such would be cheaper than going with Greddy and HKS, but why do they still do it?? i'm sure they know that they could save a couple of grands from their project cars but why do they spend the money for the brand name stuff?? obviously, i'm not one of those ppl so i can't answer the question.

i'm not trying to defend HKS and greddy from being called rice.. i guess what i'm just trying to say is, why do you think everybody buys HKS and greddy? instead of arguing over if it's rice or not, i think by going to the source of the problem (why ppl are buying these if they know better) it will be resolved in much more civil ways..away from flaming 

about prestige.. in webster's it's defined as "The level of respect at which one is regarded by others; standing. 
A person's high standing among others; honor or esteem." everybody knows that HKS and Greddy is expensive. Admit it. When you see somebody with some nice HKS/Greddy you say to yourself, "nice..must've worked hard" Working ur ass off and buying something nice (at least in your own book) and gettig ppl to respect u for that hard work is prestige to me. i mean everytime i'm in my mom's bmw or my dad's jag and i see ppl staring, i feel good.. if ppl constantly rip on you of something that you worked hard for you're sad..cause you worked so hard for yourself yet others don't appreciate it. that's why i like building cars and stuff so much..ppl recognize your hard work in your car and give you compliments..that makes you feel good and you knowing that you're better than somebody (in a good way) is prestige. that's what drives me to start saving my pennies and learn as much about cars as i can before i can even drive. "hard work is never wasted" is my philosophy..maybe it's not your philosophy but it's mine. i would appreciated it if you could stop making fun of my beliefs (ex: calling me ricer, etc)

also, i got sick of explaining stuff to ricers, noobs.. they would argue w/ me because they believe rice is cool and turbo talk w/ numbers is gay. they just don't get it and they don't want to get it. they don't want to get it because when you start explaining stuff to them, they feel that you are disrespecting them of car knowledge.. this may not always be true but that's how i see it. anyways, i don't explain stuff to ricers anymore cause i'm sick of arguing..

ppl put HKS on RB's cause they already got enough money (RB's cost a lot u know..a couple of grand is not what most ppl spend on hobbies).. have you seen what kind of useless expensive stuff rich ppl buy? rich ppl live for prestige.. sometimes they go a little overboard and become rich snots..

sorry for the long post..


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## Codeman781 (Aug 23, 2003)

What he said! :thumbup: Greddy and HKS both make great products(not saying that other companies dont make products of the same quality). People want the prestige of having that product that when somebody sees it they say "wow nice".


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## djmamayek (Aug 26, 2003)

Nice argument... 

I wasn't saying that both Greddy and HK$ are ricer companies, they are some of the most respected tuners in the world, but I don't see the point in spending the extra money on a turbo that is made by one company with another companies cast housing on it. Kinda like buying Tommy clothes or Nike shoes, I am not one for flash and pizaaz I would rather have a nice low key sleeper. Hence the spoiler-less, Esi badged, stock wheeled, 2" tailpipe (with a 3" dump hehe) Eagle talon parked in my shop, albeit in pieces.

When I see HK$ and Greddy on a car around Milwaukee it is usually on a half rotted CRX with an unpainted body kit and a stock d-whatever comes in those damn things, or on a 2002-03 civic ex.... Fairly obvious that mommy and daddy paid for it when the driver is seventeen! I give respect and admiration to the knowledgable.... NOT those who put parts on their car because of the name. You shouldn't even be putting a turbo into a car if all you know about it is that it says HK$ on the side. 

I am so biased against using big name stuff because I drive a DSM.... the Greddy 18g (a mitsubishi heavy industries turbo) that comes in their kit is not worth the $3500 that they charge for it, especially when I can have a bigger 20g for less than half the price from companies like Road Race Engineering of Buschur Racing.

As for paying $900 plus for an exhaust... just because it has HK$ stamped on the tip? I'm sorry, but I can go to the muffler shop buy a 10' stick of 3" aluminized tubing for $12.00 a few mandrel bends from JC-Whitney for about $20 apiece... since I have a welder and the know how I have just made myself an entire exhaust for $72.00.... add another hundred bucks if you want a 3" muffler.


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

But there is no reason for someone to get flamed for choosing an HKS turbo if they did their research.


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

djmamayek said:


> Nice argument...


u really think so?? thnx. means a lot to a 15yo 

i guess it just comes down to personal preferance. i think it's great that you stand in what you believe in. i know that i'm probably not gonna make enough money to have a boatload of hks/greddy/blitz/what not stuff in my car as i would like to (you can call me a ricer now..you have permission ). i'll be sure to pm you for much more cost-effective mods in the future (as in when i get a job and can legally drive..)


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## djmamayek (Aug 26, 2003)

vsp3c said:


> u really think so?? thnx. means a lot to a 15yo
> 
> i guess it just comes down to personal preferance. i think it's great that you stand in what you believe in. i know that i'm probably not gonna make enough money to have a boatload of hks/greddy/blitz/what not stuff in my car as i would like to (you can call me a ricer now..you have permission ). i'll be sure to pm you for much more cost-effective mods in the future (as in when i get a job and can legally drive..)



Nice... You'll learn, you will really start to see the value of a dollar alot better once you are out of highschool. You don't have to worry about that stuff.. You can go just as fast with a homemade manual boost controller, a ghetto intake and exhaust, and a pieced together homebuilt turbo kit... All it takes is time, research and a little elbow grease. Oh, and about tuning yourself, it is more than possible to get an excellent tune with simple tools like an apexi afc, or the HK$ vpc, as long as you have got a good datalogging program on a palm pilot or laptop to monitor knock, a/f (need a wideband o2 to measure it effectively = $$$), etc. you have got nothing to worry about.

JOEL: 

I agree 100%... A person is not a ricer if they have researched their product... no matter how trendy it is.


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## BlueBOB (Jan 29, 2003)

There is a product available for 300 Degree (www.300degree.com) which offers a product that has been well tested on SR's, KA's, VQ's, VG's, and then some. I doubt he's run it on an RB, but either way, it's a palm/laptop application that allows you to monitor and log all the information a standard nissan Consult 1 would do. I believe he'll be working on making a Consult 2 version in the future, but right now he's only got the Consult 1. It works great! I have yet to get one but I know it works well. I was the test car for the VQ. 

just thought i'd mention that...


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## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

man.. i have *SO* much to learn..
and about learning the value of money..i will hate it when the time comes..


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## kaptainkrollio (Jul 29, 2003)

i know im new to this post but i completely agree about not buying designer brands just for the name. Why pay $250 for a piece of aluminum tubing and an air filter just because it has a greddy blitz, or hks sticker on the side. Its all about performance not about name. Why spend 50 grand on a name brand car and go into debt whne you can get the same power for half the price. all it takes is time, research and knoledge. (sorry if i stole somebody's argument)


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