# 95 Pathfinder... leaking brake fluid



## NuBNPrince (Jul 22, 2003)

I've got a 95 Pathfinder, and it is slowly leaking brake fluid. I
find myself having to refill the brake fluid reservoid about every 1-
2 weeks, sometimes sooner.

The last mechanic I had to do some work on my car last summer (he
fixed the A/C, a manifold leak, and changed the brake pads) told me
that I may want to look at having the master cylinder replaced
within the next 6 months... which I haven't done yet.

Does anybody think that a damaged master cylinder could be causing
my issue? If so, is it something I can do myself (all I've ever
done on this car is change the oil and replace a headlight assembly)
or how much would a mechanic charge me? Also, would the brake fluid
leaking cause damage to something else?


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## Xeno (Oct 5, 2005)

Yes, the master cylinder can leak break fluid. (You never said where it was coming from). Break fluid does reach all four wheels and can leak anywhere in between.

Brake fluid is caustic and does remove paint and break down some plastics & rubbers.

Grab a book and read up on how to change it out. Only you can answer "is it something I can do myself?"


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

Pretty much what Xeno said. There are a number of places that brake fluid can leak from, but in my experience, the master cylinder is not one of the more common. Soft parts like the rubber brake hoses at each wheel are more likely locations - but the M/C is a possibility.

If you are filling the M/C every couple of weeks, you have a significant leak that should not be very difficult to find. There should be an obvious wet spot somewhere. If the M/C connections are dry, then it's time to get on your back and slide around under the vehicle with a trouble light or flashlight to try and find the spot. Like I say, I would start by checking the hoses at each wheel first. These hoses become dry crack over time.

I assume you have 4-wheel disc brakes, but if not, and you have drum brakes, the brake cylinders (not to be confused with the M/C) inside each drum can also be a common source of a leak.

Take a look around and I'm sure you'll find it. As far as doing this kind of work yourself, it depends how mechanically inclined you are and what kind of tools you own. There are not too many specialty tools required (flare nut wrenches are handy), but the more tricks you've got at your disposal the better - - especially on older vehicles where time and corrosion have played their part. But like Xeno said, get yourself a repair manual (Haynes) and see what's involved in your repair and then make the decision.

I can't say exactly what a shop would charge you - it depends what's wrong - but I would guess you could easily save a few hundred $$$ doing the repairs yourself (you can buy tools with the savings - that's what I do... :thumbup: )

IMO - You should get this resolved fairly soon. If infact you have a damaged hose, the last thing you want is for it to fail completely when you go to break. I had this happen once on my 1/2 ton when it blew a front brake line (the worst place because the majority of the braking power comes from the front). I was able to get the vehicle stopped, but was just fortunate there was nobody right in front of me.

Keep us informed.


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## NuBNPrince (Jul 22, 2003)

*Zilverado*

You were right about the wet spots. This morning when I drove away from where my car was parked all night, I saw a small puddle about the diameter of a bagel where the front left tire was sitting, and a smaller puddle where the front right tire was sitting. No puddles near either of the rear tires.

If the problem is the master cylinder, you're probably right in assuming that the problem is also each hose on each front wheel. Hopefully those won't be too much to replace. The mechanic who I normally work with tells me that replacing the master cylinder alone should cost me about $250 (parts & labor)... I wonder how much having those hoses replaced as well would be.


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## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

NuBNPrince said:


> *Zilverado*
> 
> You were right about the wet spots. This morning when I drove away from where my car was parked all night, I saw a small puddle about the diameter of a bagel where the front left tire was sitting, and a smaller puddle where the front right tire was sitting. No puddles near either of the rear tires.
> 
> If the problem is the master cylinder, you're probably right in assuming that the problem is also each hose on each front wheel. Hopefully those won't be too much to replace. The mechanic who I normally work with tells me that replacing the master cylinder alone should cost me about $250 (parts & labor)... I wonder how much having those hoses replaced as well would be.


Check your carpet behind the bake peddle for brake fluid. This is where the most common MC leaks will show.
As for both fronts leaking, you might consider finding another mechanic. It would appear the one that did your brakes last either didn't inspect the parts he was working on (hoses, calipers) or damaged them in the process. Did he say what he thought was wrong with the MC? Typically you can not tell it will go bad before it does.


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

*Animal* makes some good points. I'd just like to add...

I've actually never had a bad enough brake leak to leave spots on the ground under the vehicle. When I said "wet spots" I actually meant still on the vehicle in the area of the leak - - spindles, control arms, callipers, hoses, etc. I would definitely look at getting this fixed, and soon.

By your description, I would start with the wheel leaks - leave the MC for now. A bad MC would not cause leaking at the wheels. The MC can leak of course (again look for wet spots on the MC itself), but a more common problem with the MC is brake fluid leaking past the plungers (if that's the right word) "within" the MC, causing a soft brake pedal, but the fluid actually stays in the system.

Remove your front wheels, or crawl under and see what's leaking. I suspect your hoses, or the hose connections are leaking - - REPLACE THEM!! It could also be the calipers, but again less likely.

As I said before, rubber hoses tend to get dry and crack over time. It is also possible that they were damaged during the pad replacement. If your mechanic did not take care to support the calipers properly and possibly let them hang by the hose at some point, this could have accelerated the hose failure - - just a thought.

As for the cost, it should be less than a new MC, first off because the parts are less, and there is less labour involved. Again, as we said before, you might want to consider doing the brake hoses yourself to save even more $$$. Depending on your mechanical aptitude of course.

Good luck and let us know what you find.


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## NuBNPrince (Jul 22, 2003)

You guys have been SO helpful, but I have one more question:

These hoses you refer to... where EXACTLY would I find them to check them for a leak, and if they're the cause, should I just go to Advance Auto Parts to get replacements? What would the exact term be, so I don't sound like a complete idiot trying to describe the part to the guy at the store? And would I need any special tools or procedure to replace them?


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## capl3790 (Dec 13, 2005)

If you turn your wheels and look behind the one turned in, you will see a black hose about 12mm in diameter. It is made of rubber. Not to discurage you from doing this, but you may want to consult a friend that has done this before since you will need to blead the breaks. He or she may be able to give you a hand, just a thought sine breaks are something you don't want to fail you.


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

NuBNPrince said:


> You guys have been SO helpful, but I have one more question:
> 
> These hoses you refer to... where EXACTLY would I find them to check them for a leak, and if they're the cause, should I just go to Advance Auto Parts to get replacements? What would the exact term be, so I don't sound like a complete idiot trying to describe the part to the guy at the store? And would I need any special tools or procedure to replace them?


Glad to help...

The brake hoses are right at the wheel. The MC has metal lines (tubes) coming out of it which make their way to each wheel. In the back, these rigid lines often connect directly to the disc brake caliper or drum brake, because the brakes are in a fixed position. In the front, however, these rigid lines transition into flexible hoses - to accommodate the turning (steering) of the front wheels.

So, in the front, the rigid lines end usually on the vehicles frame (or some other non-moving part), and then a flexible hose, about 12" long, takes over from there and connects to the actual brake caliper. You'll easily see this if you take a look. To actually get at the hoses to replace them, you would have to remove the wheel. The callipers are mounted towards the back half of the rotor (around the 2:00 o'clock position if you're looking at the wheel), so turning the steering wheel will give better access to the hoses (turn it to the right for the left side and to the left for the right side). You'll understand this if you look at it.

As far as what these hoses are called.... I would ask the parts guy for "*front brake hoses* for a 95 Pathfinder...." nothing more complicated than that. They may ask you for vehicle particulars (i.e. engine size, 4 wheel drive, 4-wheel disc brakes, etc.) to come up with the right series of vehicle and proper parts. They may also have different quality hoses - - the standard rubber hoses or the higher-performance braided steel hose. Personally, I've never used the braided kind. I know they're better (stronger) but they are also more expensive, and the average guy doesn't need them.

As for replacing the hoses, the only real special tools required are a good set of "flare-nut" wrenches. These look like box end wrenches with a portion missing - - similar to an open-end wrench, but more closed (again, you'll know what I'm saying when you see them). They allow you to slip the box over the hose and onto the flare nut on the end. These flare nuts are fairly small and quite soft. An open-end wrench often wants to slip over, rounding off the nut. Then you gotta go after it with something else - destroying the nut.

A good soak of penetrating oil on the connections prior to trying to loosen anything will help loosen up the corrosion.

Once the hoses are replaced, you need to bleed the brakes. Again, not tough to do, but you need to understand the process.

What I suggest you do is pick up a repair manual (Haynes is better than Chilton) while you are at the parts store. These manuals describe this work quite well. It is not a hard job, but there are particular things to take note of.

Have fun.


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## NuBNPrince (Jul 22, 2003)

OK, so I still haven't done it yet. But I found an excellent article on brake bleeding:

http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/html/ccr/ccr20011001bb.html

But it mentions "opening the bleeder" while having someone slowly apply foot pressure to the brakes, but then it says to close the bleeder "before the end of the pedal stroke". Does this mean that the bleeder screw must be closed before the pedal is pushed all the way to the floor, or that the bleeder screw must be closed before the pedal is completely depressed AFTER being pressed to the floor?


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

The main thing is that you close the bleeder *before* the pedal is released. Just think of it as a pump. If you let the pedal travel back up with the bleeder open, air will be drawn (sucked) back into the caliper. With the bleeder closed, air is not allowed in.

Hope this clears it up for you.


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## gbest03 (Feb 15, 2006)

It's also a good idea to attach a 12" or so long piece of clear 1/4" tubing from the bleed screw to a glass or clear plastic bottle with new brake fluid in it.
That way, if the person pumping the pedal lets up too soon, it will suck in fluid and not air.
It's also a great way to see when there are no more air bubbles coming out of the bleeder.
And it also keeps the old fluid from spraying all over the place.


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

gbest03 said:


> It's also a good idea to attach a 12" or so long piece of clear 1/4" tubing from the bleed screw to a glass or clear plastic bottle with new brake fluid in it.
> That way, if the person pumping the pedal lets up too soon, it will suck in fluid and not air.
> It's also a great way to see when there are no more air bubbles coming out of the bleeder.
> And it also keeps the old fluid from spraying all over the place.


Excellent suggestions.


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## NuBNPrince (Jul 22, 2003)

You guys have given me a lot of confidence... I feel like I can do this repair on my own. I'm going to get the replacement hose and go for it next weekend... if weather permits, I'll even photograph the process. *LOL*



Animal said:


> As for both fronts leaking, you might consider finding another mechanic. It would appear the one that did your brakes last either didn't inspect the parts he was working on (hoses, calipers) or damaged them in the process. Did he say what he thought was wrong with the MC? Typically you can not tell it will go bad before it does.


You know what? You're absolutely right about finding another mechanic. Last summer, I needed brake pads & rotors, my A/C wasn't working, and I had a manifold seal problem. I took my truck to Meineke (BIG MISTAKE) and they replaced the brake pads & rotors, and replaced the A/C blower motor and charged me $800... I was happy. But he claimed he couldn't fix the manifold issue because he didn't have the tools. I found a non-commercial guy who was willing to fix the manifold issue for under $500.

But I will NEVER take my truck back to Meineke... 

But here's an update - no leak from the right front tire, but heavy leak from left front tire. It's gotten worse - now I have to refill the MC reservoir every 3 or 4 days. I've got to fix this soon.

Thanks again!


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

NuBNPrince said:


> You guys have given me a lot of confidence... I feel like I can do this repair on my own. I'm going to get the replacement hose and go for it next weekend...


So does this mean that you found the leak in the hose? Having to fill the brake reservoir every 3-4 days, is quite a significant leak. You DEFINITELY want to get this repaired SOON. Afterall, your brakes are what keep you from hitting things... 

Hopefully the weather allows you to do the work next weekend. In preparation, as I mentioned before, you might want to get under there with a good penetrating oil and soak all of the threaded connections - especially where the brake hoses connect to the solid lines. These tend to seize up with corrosion and can sometimes be a bit challenging to disconnect without damaging something.

Have fun.


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## gbest03 (Feb 15, 2006)

I know it was mentioned earlier, but be sure to buy flare nut wrenches for the metal pipe connections!
Trying to take new ones apart can be tough enough, let alone 11 year old ones.
I've seen people use vice grips and crush the heck out of the fitting.
Don't forget to hit the bleeder screw with some penetrant also.

The(Forum)force is with you young Jedi mechanic!


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## NuBNPrince (Jul 22, 2003)

UPDATE:

Well, I got up under the truck Saturday afternoon... and found some very discouraging things:

First of all, the left side of the undercarriage frame near the wheel is completely dry (as it should be), but a significant portion of the right side of the frame is soaked with oil. I think there might be an oil leak somewhere. But I checked my oil level and it's fine.

I was going to change my oil at the same time I did the hose replacement, but the bolt on the oil pan won't come off. I think the last mechanic may have put it back on too tight so I couldn't take it off. I was using a ratchet set but the ratchet I was using kept slipping off the bolt, so I didn't want to rub off the outside indentations and make it impossible to take off later.

Also, I checked the inside of the left wheel assembly to find where the hose is to take it off... and at a closer look, I saw the drip. It wasn't coming from the hose, but from the caliper assembly. Also, I didn't see any bleeder screw above where the brake hose mounted.

I don't know what to do at this point.


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## gbest03 (Feb 15, 2006)

I would go buy an oil pan bolt and crush washer before you attempt to remove the old one.
You might have better luck removing it with an adjustable wrench, or heaven forbid, a pair of vice grips.

As for the brakes, I would have someone push hard on the brake pedal while you look around the area of the leak.
If you are refilling the master cylinder that often, it may be shooting out of a cracked brake line near the firewall.
Does your pedal fall to the floor if you keep pressure on it?


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## NuBNPrince (Jul 22, 2003)

Oil pan bolt? Crush washer?

If I press the brake pedal hard while the master cylinder is full, the pedal doesn't necessarily fall to the floor, but there is a difference in pressure from when it is working normally. There is a little bit of spongy pressure at first, then firmness all the way through pushing the pedal down, even when it hits the floor.


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

Ahh - - issues. Par for the course for the do-it-yourselfer. That's how we learn and that's what gives us such a sense of satisfaction when it's done...

I agree with *gbest03*, if the oil pan drain plug (oil pan bolt) is in there that tight, the brass (or similar) washer (crush washer) is possibly pooched as well. Get a new plug and washer before taking the old one out. As for removing the old one, at this stage anything goes. I'd start with a box-end wrench, as opposed to a socket. The force you place on a wrench is more in line with the plane of the bolt head - this allows you to put more force on it, with less chance of it "rolling over" and slipping off of the head. Barring that, pull out anything else you've got - even a small pipe wrench might work (the harder you push, the tighter it will grip the bolt head). I certainly would not suggest this tool for a bolt you plan to reuse, but if it's a throw-away, what's it gonna hurt?

Just one more thing about the oil drain plug. When trying to remove it, just make sure you are infact turning it in a counter-clockwise direction. Sometimes, lying on your back with your hands up over your head, reversing the turn direction can happen - - just a thought.

As for the brakes, again *gbest03 *makes a good suggestion. If you can, have someone push on the brake pedal while you watch at the wheel. It should not be too difficult to track the leak (a good trouble light will help too). If it is infact the caliper leaking, these are more expensive, but are easy to replace.

Keep smiling and let us know how it goes.


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## slasher (Jan 20, 2006)

the right side of the udercarriage is oily probably from the oil filter spillage during changes. hey, im in la plata, small world...


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## NuBNPrince (Jul 22, 2003)

@slasher:
SMALL WORLD INDEED  See... I would think oil changes, if there wasn't so much everywhere... but I'll leave it alone, I guess.

*UPDATE!*

I'm sure you guys are sick and tired of hearing about my 95 Pathfinder... but I had to come back and let you guys know where I am.

First... I still have not had the money to attack the leaky brake fluid problem. But, the problem now is not consistent. Not that this eludes to the problem not being serious... but I'm noticing that sometimes, it takes a little longer for the brake fluid to drain out.

But now I've got some new issues.

Over the past few weeks I've noticed a small bit of smoke coming from some area underneath the dashboard. I had absolutely no idea where the smoke was coming from. First, I thought the master cylinder was leaking brake fluid, the brake fluid was evaporating once it hit the engine block, and possibly the smoke was coming through the A/C system. Then, I thought it might be an oil leak. Finally, another clue came to help me figure it out. The spot on the floor directly below the accelerator pedal (pretty much, the spot where my right heel would rest during normal driving) gets EXTREMELY hot. So much so, in fact, that the heat melted the sole on one of my shoes. I decided to pull back the floor mat to investigate and sure enough, there is a spot on the floor that is black and looks burned, almost as if something from underneath the car was burning a hole through the floor. I notice the heat at its worst when I'm in 3rd gear. Also, this morning, there was some sputtering when I accelerated while initializing second gear. Oh... and the A/C system isn't working again... *LOL* it's just blowing hot air... possibly, it's just out of Freon.

I'm wondering if I should go ahead and spend the money and get the truck repaired, or if I should take it to a dealership and trade it in for a newer car.


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

First suggestion - - start a new thread with these issues. You'll get more attention from readers...

The burning floor could be a catalytic converter issue. These can get VERY hot, especially when they are going bad. Fortunately, I do not have first hand experience with a burning floor, but I've heard about it. Certainly something to check out, just get under the vehicle and see what's close to the area that gets hot.

As for keeping the vehicle or selling it, that's a personal decision. Our '92 is coming up on 300,000km (188,000 miles) and is still going pretty strong. I'm hoping to keep it on the road for a few years yet. Of course, doing most of the maintenance myself makes this much more feasible.

But again, might I suggest you start some new threads and get some new responses.


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

NuBNPrince said:


> *Zilverado*
> 
> You were right about the wet spots. This morning when I drove away from where my car was parked all night, I saw a small puddle about the diameter of a bagel where the front left tire was sitting, and a smaller puddle where the front right tire was sitting. No puddles near either of the rear tires.
> 
> If the problem is the master cylinder, you're probably right in assuming that the problem is also each hose on each front wheel. Hopefully those won't be too much to replace. The mechanic who I normally work with tells me that replacing the master cylinder alone should cost me about $250 (parts & labor)... I wonder how much having those hoses replaced as well would be.


Your brakes leak THAT MUCH and you're still driving it?!? Good God. I hope you have collision/full coverage insurance.


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