# Polyurethane suspension bushes



## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

Are their any suspension bushed used on a B13 or N14 that will fit on a B12? I can only find listings on poly bushed for B13 and N14 stuff here so I'm wondering if any of it's useful and my B12's.

Cheers,
Eddie


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## livelyjay (May 7, 2004)

I'm pretty certain the B13 bushing kit will fit the B12.


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

I have read several times that the B13 front control arms are the same as the B12's(may want to double check that though) so any bushings up there should work, the rear is very different as we all know, but there are general application poly bushings you can get in different sizes and stuff, there have been a few threads about it but I don't think they went into great detail or anything


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

livelyjay said:


> I'm pretty certain the B13 bushing kit will fit the B12.


NOT!
The lower rear control arm is different. But, we took the bushing off the b12 a-arm and put it on the b13 a-arm that we used on Greg's b12 for his sr20 swap.


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

I've just been looking at the B12 and N14 Nissan parts catalogs. It looks like the lower arms on the N14 mount to a separate subframe rather than straght to the body like on the B12. The arm itself looks very similar but the catalog doesn't show the bushings.

So the arm will fit nut not the bushing then? Shame, I'd love to get rid of those huge rubber bushed on the rear of lower control arms. There's a company here that will make them but only if I order a hundred of them









So, are all you guys still running the original rubber bushings on the front end or what?

Eddie


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

Ratdat said:


> I've just been looking at the B12 and N14 Nissan parts catalogs. It looks like the lower arms on the N14 mount to a separate subframe rather than straght to the body like on the B12. The arm itself looks very similar but the catalog doesn't show the bushings.
> 
> So the arm will fit nut not the bushing then? Shame, I'd love to get rid of those huge rubber bushed on the rear of lower control arms. There's a company here that will make them but only if I order a hundred of them
> 
> ...


I just ordered 2 new lower rear control arm bushings. OEM stuff $20ea. Ordered new outer tie rod ends $25ea. And new billows for the PS rack for $18ea. They (CSK) couldnt get OEM swaybar bushings at all. So I went to Baxters and they have Energy Suspension poly bushings. I didnt get them cuz I want to be sure they'll fit. Are't they 1 1/8? Anyway, the a-arm bushings won't be in til the 22nd. And I have poly end link bushings that had less the 10 miles on them before my kid totalled the car. The a-arms Greg gave me from his b12 look brand new. Decided not to replace the ball joints cuz they are like new as is the upper control arm bushings. Bought a spring compressor at Harbor Freight for $9. Got some GR2's and all the like new towers and stuff from Gregs car.


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

OK, did a bunch of searching and measuring with the calipers. Here's what I found. Stock front swaybar on the old sedan was .96" in diameter. The stock swaybar on the SE coup is 1.05" and the swaybar I pulled off a Pulsar with a CA motor is 1.12". Here is a conversion chart I copied from an earlier post. thx Myet.

24.200 millimetre [mm] equivalent to: 0.95275 inch [in] 
15/16 = 0.9375, 31/32 = 0.96875
25.400 millimetre [mm] equivalent to: 1.00000 inch [in] 
1 = 1 
26.500 millimetre [mm] equivalent to: 1.04331 inch [in] 
1 1/32 = 1.03125, 1 1/16 = 1.0625
28.600 millimetre [mm] equivalent to: 1.12598 inch [in] 
1 1/8 = 1.125

So it looks like the 1 1/8 polyurathane bushing will work on the bigass swaybar that I will definatly be putting in. Has anyone else tried these? The only other iffy would be the bracket.

And check out the toasted rear lower control arm bushings. The pic after that one is the pressure plate that doesnt want to work properly.


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

I just put the front and rear swaybars from an 87 twin cam pulsar on my B12. I took my time in the boneyard with a pair of calipers and checked several cars. The twin cams were by far the largest bars. anyways, I bought all new OEM bushings and brackets to put them on with, and with those large bars, they use the same brackets as the small B12 bars. On the front, the bars is so big, I think might be an 1/8 " of rubber between the bar and bracket. I don't really even think there is much room for movement. I have seen those poly bushing kits for the main brackets that are somewhat universal that you buy in different sizes, i just never like the idea of the slotted mounting brackets.


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

It's true. The brackets are the same size for all the swaybars. The only difference is the bushing. I'm thinkin the universal poly bushing may not work without making some sort of standoff to get the bushing far enough away from the chassis. You'll notice the oem ones have about a 3/8 insert inside the bracket. Anyone tried these yet?


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

I wasn't really too concerned with the front bushings. there is such a little distance between the bar and bracket, that even with the bushings being rubber, I don't think they can move much. The new OEM bushings were pretty decent and when you crank them down, they are pretty snug on that bar. Personally, I would probably be more concerned with the end links moving. I used new TRW end links and the bushings they gave me with them were pretty damn hard for rubber. Either way, I noticed a dramatic increase in handling after putting the front bar on. I am going to put the new rear in this week sometime. 

My next project is to fabricate a front control arm brace on the car, I really think it will help with the understeer problems these cars seem to have when pushed hard. I have another week or so before I can start to get that built/installed. I will make sure I post it because I think it is definatley going to be a worthwhile project for this car....


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

control arm brace?? i guess i dont understand


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

Basically it is a cross member that ties the front frame rails together and has a connection to the center rail for added support. Basically the same principle as a strut tower brace only for the lower end of the suspension. Entech used to make one for our cars, but they are no more I guess ? Here is a picture of one for a B14.The end links are attached to control arms.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

astreamk1 said:


> Basically it is a cross member that ties the front frame rails together and has a connection to the center rail for added support. Basically the same principle as a strut tower brace only for the lower end of the suspension. Entech used to make one for our cars, but they are no more I guess ? Here is a picture of one for a B14.The end links are attached to control arms.


is it suppose to be solid or kind of like a spring? almost looks like a little leaf spring


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

No it is supposed to be rigid, thus the center brace. the reason for the arc in it is for ground clearance. Being it becomes the lowest point under the front of the car, you want it to be as low profile as possible. It helps keeps frame from flexing in hard cornering. I have talked to people who have used them on other cars and they all have said it made a noticeable improvement ? Here is an on the car picture, might make it a little clearer.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

hey wow cool, so it would just need a longer bolt for the control arm.....i never would have thought of that.


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

I assume they aren't available specifically for B12 or N13 chassis? I've alway thought the front suspension mounting looked a bit weak from a structural design standpoint. I'd be very interested to see what difference this brace would make. I bet it's a real bonus on a high powered car with a lot of grip.

-Eddie-


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

No, from what I have read, there was a company called Entech I believe that used to make one to fit our cars, but they are no more. I was trying to buy a used one on Ebay for a B13 or B14, but it didn't pan out. I figured they had to be pretty close and could be modified, so I am just going to have to make my own. As far as the bolts go, I am not sure if they use a longer bolt, or if those end links are just tubing with a washer on one end ? If that be the case, there looks like there would be enough threads on the factory bolt to simply remove the nut, slide the brace over the bolt, and tighten her up again ? I was actually going to make mine with flat brackets on the ends. I am hoping to have this done next week sometime as long as the guy helping me is availible. I'll make sure to post some pics when I get it done .


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

Looks to me like tubing with a washer welded on for the end links. It's such a simple construction I think I'll just make my own.

Going back to the issue of urethane bushes, the ones I am most concerned with are the rear lower arm pivots on the front. These are huge rubber bushes and must have loads of movement in them which would allow for considerable forward/rearward movement at the bottom ball joint, especially under braking or acceleration. 

I considered using monoballs or something there but I suspect the NVH would be unbearable in a road car. So what can be used there? Is it possible to make stiffer bushes with Flexane or some other kind of two part liquid urethane or is that stuff not durable enough? The only other thing I can think of is finding a round urethane bush that will fit the spindle, then machining an aluminium block (maybe two piece)to adapt it to the mounting on the chassis.

Eddie


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

One from a B13 should probably come close to working since the control arms are said to be identical, don't know how the brace would line up with the B12's crossmember though, this does look like it would do a good job helping the suspension/steering.


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

Gawd, thx alot. I'm replacing all that shit and now I gotta figure out how to get one before puttin it all together. lol

Cool idea though. Wish I had welding access. looks like a simple mod given the right tools and a little bit of iron.


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

Popkorn said:


> Gawd, thx alot. I'm replacing all that shit and now I gotta figure out how to get one before puttin it all together. lol
> 
> Cool idea though. Wish I had welding access. looks like a simple mod given the right tools and a little bit of iron.


I actually talked a couple of weeks ago with Scott Higashi from Shigspeed who currently makes a nice brace for the B13-B14. He has never tried fitting one for a B12. He sells the B13 unit for $175 shipped and said if we could 10 or so people to commit, and someone to make a B12 availible to him in NorCal, he would be willing to make a jig for our car and produce them. He estimated the price around the same as the B13 unit .


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

Ratdat said:


> Looks to me like tubing with a washer welded on for the end links. It's such a simple construction I think I'll just make my own.
> 
> Going back to the issue of urethane bushes, the ones I am most concerned with are the rear lower arm pivots on the front. These are huge rubber bushes and must have loads of movement in them which would allow for considerable forward/rearward movement at the bottom ball joint, especially under braking or acceleration.
> 
> ...


Has anybody looked into finding someone who could possibly produce aftermarket bushings for us ? If we could find someone that has the capabilty to make them, and get a group together, maybe we could have some made. We'd probably have to supply them with a set of new OEM bushings as a guide. Somehow I thought I read about someone who made bushings ? I think we could easily get a group together on that if the deal was right.


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

I think someone tried getting a company to make performance bushings for the B12 but like so many other aftermarket B12 ventures, it fell through.


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

I got the part #'s for the B13 control arm from a dealer yesterday, and when I got home, compared them to the parts list for my B12, and they are different. I still need to call the dealer back and get a current part # for a new B12 control arm just to make sure the #'s haven't changed. My parts list is a little bit older. I am curious to find out if the ES control arm bushing kit for a B13 will fit our cars ? I couldn't find anything on here about this ? Courtesy Nissan has the ES kit for like $40.


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

Popkorn said:


> NOT!
> The lower rear control arm is different. But, we took the bushing off the b12 a-arm and put it on the b13 a-arm that we used on Greg's b12 for his sr20 swap.


What I meant to say, the control arms are the same. The lower rear bushing is the only difference. And they're interchangeable.


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

Popkorn said:


> What I meant to say, the control arms are the same. The lower rear bushing is the only difference. And they're interchangeable.


So you are saying the arms themselves are identicle, but the rear bushing is different, but the B13 bushing will work with the B12 mounts ?


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

astreamk1 said:


> So you are saying the arms themselves are identicle, but the rear bushing is different, but the B13 bushing will work with the B12 mounts ?



i am so lost :balls:


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

astreamk1 said:


> So you are saying the arms themselves are identicle, but the rear bushing is different, but the B13 bushing will work with the B12 mounts ?


Zactly... almost. The Lower rear bracket is different as well to accomodate the different bushing. So, the b13 bushing/bracket will not work on a b12 and viceversa. Clear as mud??


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

I'm confused too ?? Just to clarify, we are talking about the front control arms. The rear bushing that is held in place by 2 bolts and a bracket is different on the B13 from the one on the B12, So basically we cannot use the B13 set-up with the ES polyurethane bushings on a B12. So my options are basically just to go buy new OEM bushings and be done with it ?

got it, I think


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

That's what I'm thinking.


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

astreamk1 said:


> I'm confused too ?? Just to clarify, we are talking about the front control arms. The rear bushing that is held in place by 2 bolts and a bracket is different on the B13 from the one on the B12, So basically we cannot use the B13 set-up with the ES polyurethane bushings on a B12. So my options are basically just to go buy new OEM bushings and be done with it ?
> 
> got it, I think


That's what I had to do. Yes, we're talking about the front a-arms, aka lower control arm. 10 day backorder on the lower rear control arm bushing. I gonna go see if the 1 1/8" poly swaybar brackets will work. And Energy Suspension has the poly end link bushings that will work. The front lower control arm bushing from a b13 should work. I think they need to be pressed out/in.


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

*I see now I've been wasting my breath...*

The front ES bushings can be used, they fit the control arm, you just have to take a little time w/ a bench grinder and shape them. It took about 20 mins for me to do both sides. The front bushing pops right in. As far as the control arm brace, I have an answer for that to. If you are using a Pulsar sway bar, you'll have to use a little larger spacer than whiteline supplies with the kit

Seen here:









The pulsar swaybars has a larger outter diameter and will cause a sever binding problem. Here you can see where I had to flatten my 3" downpipe and where it rubs my whiteline swaybar:










Here you can see the front and rear mount and my ES bushings, sorry for the dirt and grime:

















The brace clears the cross member and my 3" downpipe:









Heres an overall shot and ground clearance shot:


















John


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

Thx for the info John. So, you took a poly-ur-a-thang lower rear control bushing for a b13 and ground it down to fit the b12 bracket? Where'd you get the control arm brace?


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

Popkorn said:


> Where'd you get the control arm brace?


tahts what i want to know


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

probably the same place he got the sways, they're made by the same company(whiteline) I think he got them from a subabru dealer.


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

minute rice sentra said:


> probably the same place he got the sways, they're made by the same company(whiteline) I think he got them from a subabru dealer.


They're actually a new item and on group buy over at the sr20forum for $150 shipped. Go get you one! This thing is great. It really stiffened the front end and totally elimnated wheel hop for me. Good stuff!

John


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

Popkorn said:


> Thx for the info John. So, you took a poly-ur-a-thang lower rear control bushing for a b13 and ground it down to fit the b12 bracket?


That is exackery right!

John


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

Nismodriver said:


> They're actually a new item and on group buy over at the sr20forum for $150 shipped. Go get you one! This thing is great. It really stiffened the front end and totally elimnated wheel hop for me. Good stuff!
> 
> John


if only i was rich! Turns out i'm not driving the pulsar down to Phoenix so i'm not giong to put any more money into it for a few years. hopefully they'll still offer this in a few years


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

John, do you know if I can get in on that group buy even though I'm in the UK? That is a sweet looking brace and I'd love to get one or two shipped over here for my projects.

Eddie


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

Nismodriver said:


> They're actually a new item and on group buy over at the sr20forum for $150 shipped. Go get you one! This thing is great. It really stiffened the front end and totally elimnated wheel hop for me. Good stuff!
> 
> John


is the lower control arm brace for a N14? cause i can find them for n14's but never n13's.


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

Ratdat said:


> John, do you know if I can get in on that group buy even though I'm in the UK? That is a sweet looking brace and I'd love to get one or two shipped over here for my projects.
> 
> Eddie


Best bet would be to head on over to the SR20forum and PM SR20DEBoston about shipping options. If the UK is not an option, contact Whiteline and they will ship it directly, I'm sure. They are based in Australia. If not, you may want to look into the Cusco Brace for Rnn14 Pulsar/Sunny GTiR It should be a close fit as well.

John

EDIT: Here's a link: http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=59746


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

Gsolo said:


> is the lower control arm brace for a N14? cause i can find them for n14's but never n13's.


These were designed specifically for the b13 Sentra/NX platform, but they fit the b12 perfectly. I have heard of B13 people using the Cusco N14 brace as well, so that should fit the b12/ n13 also.

John


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

Nismodriver said:


> These were designed specifically for the b13 Sentra/NX platform, but they fit the b12 perfectly. I have heard of B13 people using the Cusco N14 brace as well, so that should fit the b12/ n13 also.
> 
> John


was looking at whitelines application guide and the B13 and N14 GTiR control arm braces are the same parts ( except for a low ground clearance one)


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

Gsolo said:


> was looking at whitelines application guide and the B13 and N14 GTiR control arm braces are the same parts ( except for a low ground clearance one)


Yeah the original n14 bar was sent for test fitment, then the design was modifed to fit the b13 better. I guess it fits the n14 better as well. These have been in the making for a few months. Only 22 people have this bar so far. the $150 price is only good until the end of June!

John


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