# Aux. lighting



## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Hey,
So there is no seciton for this and B14 is wrong and so is off topic, but theres 'general' so yay, I'm in the zone.
Anyway here's a brain scratcher. I'm in the market for, _thread topic here_, and i was wondering (since i'd like to stay with PIAA even though they are the most exorbuitantly expensive, but others will suffce if they have quality) what to look for in a driving light. I guess round shape for looks, but I am concerned with wattage, bulb type and housing. Not theory, reality. 
I don't want to know which style I should go for, but which model of which manufacturer. Any experience or data short of the ones the manufacturers provide on their sites. I don't want HID lighting. Plain old halogen is fine. I want the brightest with the longest range and narrow pattern (basically that is the definition of a driving lamp). 
I don't want ******* rollbar 'KC's and I don't want them peanut sized eather. 
Tell me your thoughts.
No there isn't any money in this for a finders fee.
If the lights go 'Halleluyah' when they turn on, that would be cool too.
Thanks.

Seth


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## G_Funk013 (Jul 9, 2002)

I am also interested in getting some driving lights.


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## sentrapower93 (May 11, 2002)

Hella makes some very nice fog/driving lights. They come in all shapes round square etc. they have a die-cast metal housing and a glass lens & 55w H-3 bulbs. Mine are small rectagular shaped with a black metal housing and a blue tint glass lens which shines a nice bright white light, i like them alot. They were 40 bucks at advance auto parts. Most of the Hella fog/driving light kits at advance auto parts run under $60 a set. The H-3 55 watt bulbs that come with the kits are pretty bright, but you can always get some aftermarket superwhite H-3 55w bulbs if you want a whiter brighter look...


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

> * if you want a whiter brighter look... *


Remember,
It isn't about how bright the bulb looks, I could look like its a pilot light on a gas oven, I just want it to be bright where its aiming. (actually a dimmer 'look' is probably better, less attention, and less annoying to others.)

Seth


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

A few random thoughts on lighting -

Wattage - If you're going with small size lights (under 5") you should stay with 55 watt bulbs as there isn't enough air in smaller housings to keep higher wattages cool and you may crack your lens. Besides, with 55 watts you aren't blinding the rest of us.

$$$$- With lights you tend to get what you pay for. Cheapies from Pep Boys tend not to have the product development that goes with a name brand. No name lights may throw the light in the sky where you don't need it where a name brand like Hella or PIAA has spent the money to make sure the light goes down the road. That said, I find PIAA overpriced and they are getting to be gimmicky with some products.

Bulbs - If you are serious about seeing, stick with clear bulbs. Any tinted coating on a bulb is blocking light from escaping. This makes your basic, cheap halogen bulbs one of the best tradeoffs in bulbs. There's no real need for blue tint, it doesn't help you see.

Housing - Two words: glass and metal. Unless you get big rally lights with an ABS housing. The best reflectors are the multi faceted ones with clear lens, the same style as in most new cars without HID.

I recommend the Hella FF series for permanent mounting and I'll find some pics if you like.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Great,
Thanks, basically in short for those who are confused, I wanted to know why PIAA or Catz is better than say Hella or Pilot. Or what is the difference between a 55w halogen from PIAA and a 55w halogen from walmart or pepboys or canadian tire etc. Why is one $39.95 and the onther 189.95? What am i getting that is worth the 300% extra?

Seth


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## sentrapower93 (May 11, 2002)

IMO piaa or catz are just plain old over priced hyped up name brands. There was no way i was gonna pay $200 for a set of fogs lamps. I did alot of research before i bought on my Hella fogs, i wanted something affordable but with some quality also. The hellas offers both and fits my needs. They perform great and help me see much better at night in rain or foggy conditions. The 55w bulbs are a little brighter than most oem 35w set-ups, and they wont blind other drivers or draw any attention from you know who. Bottom line my hella fogs look great on my car, they are nice and compact the light output is a little dimmer than my cool blue bulbs but not by much. For about 40 bucks the Hella optilux line of fog & driving lights gives you a hell of a bang for your buck...


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Yeah,
I checked Hella out, and I think thats the way I'm going to go. The 'over the counter' seemed a little too flimsy, and PIAA was way overpriced for an identical product by hella. Unfortunately the hella's I want (xenon luminator) are $700 which is double a PIAA halogen. Still, they are basically gods gift to lighting. I'm going to stay at the sub $150 price range.

Seth


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Hey,
Here is a photochop (hastily done) of the Hella Luminators (not the same as the Rally 1000FF which I am at a draw with vs. the luminators) (halogen not Xenon HID). I think they may be too silly. I was trying to go for the B13 SE-R look from SCC a while back.









There is always my fantasy of having the GTR bumper and those above lights come in 'stealth' too:








same as above just clear:








the last looks the best, however I have stealth sides, and eventually blackened out headlights too.
btw. the top lights and the bottom lights are the same.
They are around 8" in diameter.

Seth


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## RiceBox (Apr 30, 2002)

Those just look funny for everyday driving. If you were doing rally then it would be OK


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Yeah,
thats what I thought. However I seriously need more lighting at night. THose 'micro' sized didn't seem up to the task.
Here take a look at these comparisons:

http://www.hella.com/produktion/Hel...ghtTunnel/InfoLightTunnel/InfoLightTunnel.jsp

Seth


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## sentrapower93 (May 11, 2002)

Hey Seth, check out www.classicgarage.com they have a good selection of Hella kits and good prices too. I know you don't want anything to small but the Hella optilux model 1400 driving light kit looks just like the piaas, and puts out a very bright beam for it's small size and they cost only $59. I have the model 1452 on my car which is similar to the 1450's on that site, mine has a blue glass lens while the 1450's have a clear glass lens. Anyways good luck on your search for aux. lights just trying to help out!


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

sethwas said:


> *Yeah,
> thats what I thought. However I seriously need more lighting at night. THose 'micro' sized didn't seem up to the task.
> Here take a look at these comparisons:
> 
> ...


You have to keep in mind that those micro lights have the fog beam, which isn't meant to project beyond the range of your high beams. What they do is paint a nice wide, flat peice of the road so you can see in the fog. They do have lights a bit bigger with driving beams that would be adequate for most of your driving needs. Those 1000s might be overkill. What exactly are you doing to need that much light?

Edit - check out Rally Lights for some Hella stuff, pricing and info. The next set I'm getting are the FF 200s driving beam. I know two guys that have them and they say they are really good.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Hey,
Basically you're all correct. I think I may throw in a fog set for the hell of it. (THe ones that turn when you turn were cool but $$$). The micro DE are $150 and from my hunting around seem to be the best fogs/inclement weather lights going. THe Optilux I believe are Hella's low end brand, not that that means anything. 
I wanted a certain beam. After looking at beam patterns and web site documentation, the desired beam pattern, non HID, only came with those 8" pie dish lights. SO that is why I reulted in something that would look swkward for everyday. However, I don't mind looking silly. I just want performance. In Canada at night Rally lights couldn't hurt, and FL highways at night I could use some help. 
Besides, what's wrong with a Rally look?

Seth

P.S. Classic car garage had great prices.
I imagine the FF200 is more practical than the 1000's or luminators?


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

Yeah, the Optilux are a good product in that price range, but if you can afford the upmarket brand, buy it.

The FF200 would be more low key and would look better on the car all the time. The FF 100 &300 are merely variations in shape so you can get the best style for your car. The rally lights site shows them all fitted to various vehicles so you can get an idea of how they'll look and the size. The two guys I know who have them run road rallies and really like them. They also have a really good mounting system so you can put them just about anywhere on the front of your car. Another good investment, if you are planning on staying with 55 watts, is the acrylic stone shields. They cost about $9 a set and protect you lenses from chips and other crap.

Does this Classic Car garage have a site? If they have good deals I'd like to check them out.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Well,
classiccargarage.com.
However driverfx.ca has the same prices dollar for dollar if you do the conversion (and shipping is cheaper, and there is no customs, however there is GST). The FF200's come in fog and driving. I'm set on those for the driving (the beam pattern is better than the 100'a and 300's) but should I go Micro DE for the fogs or get 2 more FF200's for fog lights. 
mmm...4 lights in the bumper...

Seth


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Silly me,
THe light tunnel above clearly shows that the DE's are better than the 200's when it comes to fog.

Seth


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

So,
It's official. I ordered from driverfx.ca these two sets of halogen lights:
Micro DE white fog:








this one has a silver trim instead of black. Not the whole housing, just the ring at the front.
Comet FF200 white driving:








THe grand total including 5 day shipping and 15% sales tax was $515 CAD. THat's about $300 US for 4 lights shipped.

Seth

P.S. My next step is to see if I can get the $29 wireless harness. No wires to run inside. Just a key fob like an alarm to turn on the lights.


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## V i V i D 200sx (Sep 17, 2002)

there is a hole in there. above the pedals, and a lil to the right. its a bitch to get to tho. i had to lay in the floor and try to find it. it might be for the clutch pedal. i dunno, cuz i have an auto. thats about the area that the thing is. its like a rubber patch thing. you can see it easier from the engine bay, i think. i used this hole to run my power cable for my amp. i dont really like those wireless keyfob ones. its kinda like one more thing to remember when you get out of your car. (or does it turn off w/ ignition too, but on w/ switch)


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Hmm,
I guess i could wire it to disengage when the ignition is off. I'll have to see. Otherwise I guess I'll just have to click it off, but that isn't _that_ big of a hassle. I'll find out and let you know.

Seth

BTW, I'm going to mount my DE's in the sides of the bumper, and the 200FF"s in the center of the bumper. Should they be in the lower part or upper part, or staggard (DE's in the lower, FF's in the upper).









the scale may be slightly off.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Also,
I would assume that you mount the lights to something metal, not drill a hole in the bumper and attach it there. Or am I wrong? I believe that the FF's have a special bumper mounting contraption.
(DE's are 2 inches in diameter, FF's are 5 inches in diameter)

Seth

P.S. as a not to the thread above this one, the instructions online say to mount the lights as far apart as possible. I think they are universal instructions (online) and for driving lights, does that make sense? I figured that was true for fogs.


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

For reference of scale, here's the 6 3/8" width Hella 500s (vs the 5 5/8" FF200s) on a nice white B13:









The instructions may have notes about minimum and maximum recommended height from the ground for each, so that may decide final placement. As for spacing apart, go with what Hella says. The wider placement gives you wider coverage of the road when both light are aimed straight.

As for mounting, make sure it goes into something really solid, or they'll jiggle all the time and cause eye strain. Mine are attached to a light bar which is bolted on to two plates that are welded to the bumper behind the grill. This set up has no jiggle at all, but isn't very stylin' and required cutting holes in the grill. The FF mount seems very versatile, so you shouldn't have problems.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Hey,
So I did some measurements, and for semi-scale purposes nothing will fit in the lower hole in the bumper. The DE's will fit in the upper part, and the FF's will be trouble. So these are my choices:


















Seth


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

I like the below the bumper option:










I also like the behind the grill stealth style:










Since you're in Quebec, you could also go with the completely outrageous lights all over the place layout:


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

DAMN!,
I love the bottom one! The quebequois will start talking about this UFO that they see on the T-CAN early in the evening...
Mad Max eat your heart out.

Seth

P.S. Me thinks (me wife too) that I should leave the grille open.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Hmm,
So my account is gone (expired) at my image hosting place. SO I can't upload the photo, bt basically the 200FF's came in, and they are a good size. Not too big, not tiny. Anyway, in the pics above, the fogs (which haven't come in) will go in the upper deck of the bumper. And I'm at a draw as to what to do with the 200FF's.
Mainly its a mounting point issue. I can mount them in the grille, since they fit (just in front actually). But to what am I drilling a hole?
My other option is to mount them in the upper deck of the bumper, but cut out the plastic slat that separated the upper and lower decks to accomodate the lamp flush with the slat. I'm not cutting the whole piece out, just 2-3 inches where the light will sit. This look is the same as the top picture by FCS, however the lights are farther back in the bumper.

Seth


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

Try Print Room for free web hosting.

To mount mine to something solid, I had to cut holes in my grill under right where it meets the bumper and have bars bent to fit and welded, but my setup is for road rallying with prettiness being secondary.

I don't know how the B14 is laid out under there, so I don't really know what you can attach too, but I do recommend something structural like the unibody or bumper.

A guy I know with a Legacy mounted his FF200s to the top of the bumper, drilled through the plastic molding. I can ask him how he did it if you like.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Yeah,
That would be great. 
Thanks about the printroom thing, but I do have other accounts. However I'm not sure when they expire either, and I don't want any restrictions on photos like at printroom.

Seth


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

So,
I found out that to mount thefogs they will have to attach to the urethan bumper fascia. However the Driving lights actually mount to the metal bumper itself. I have all the equipment ot do this, however, I have to remove the bumper to access the metal bumper. 
I'm not sure how to take the whole thing off. I know there are two screws under the grille, an assortment of screws below the car, and somehow it attaches to the fender. The fender part is the killer, I can't figure out how to detach it from there.

Seth


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Update:
So the FF's are in. I had to go to a shop to get the bumper cut and the mounts attached (it was either that (btw $18 total) or remove the bumper myself. They just put it on a lift and screwed in the little mounts and I got to be there and tell them how. Insurance be damned). Now I just need to get an allen key screwdriver (normally they are in little "L"s but that won't fit.) and aim them. I wired them and they work. I have them running on their own feed, not that of the high beam (so I can turn them on and off whenever). 

I think that I shouldn't go the wireless route. 
1) because I can't run the fogs separately, and 
2) because its a lot more wiring under the hood. As it is now I have the wires snakeing around from the firewall by the driver to the battery along the driver side fender, and the light wires are tied up un front of the radiator behind the grile. This way they don't actually touch the radiator and melt.
So how do I get the wires inside the car. I can't find any openings. All the ones that go through are sealed. On top of that I can't see where they enter the car. They are sealed there too. I am not tearing off the seals.

Seth


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

Mine come through a hole drilled right through the firewall near the brake master cylinder and sealed with silicone. You just have to make sure there's nothing on either side to drill through besides the metal. Do the kits you bought have relays?


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Yes,
They do. Why?

Seth

P.S. Here's how I wired the lights. The plugs go from the light housings to a relay. Also connected to a relay is a power line and a ground line. Also to the relay is a 'power sense' line that gives the switch a feed when a power source is detected. THis is how fogs only go on with low beams and driving lights with high beams. I have this line running straight to a accessory slot in my power cable battery terminal. This way it always senses power and goes on or off with the flick of a switch independent of lights on or off.

Seth


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

So,
I had to get a ball end hex key to tighten the lamps (still a major pain the butt, with close to zero clearance) and there is a slight vertical play (they don't rotate at all, but can be moved up and down slightly but stay put [sort of like a rear view mirror in a car, it doesn't budge but will if you push it]). Is this normal?
Also, I have the thick plastic "hella" covers on them so they don't get damaged until I get the wiring hooked up. Do you have to re-aim after you take them off, or should the lights be solid? Right now I have to keep re-aiming them. Will they get looser over time, or tighter?

Seth


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

Just wondering, because you should use a relay. But you have it so it's OK.

Before I bought the clear acrylic stone guards for my 500s they would move a small amount when I struggled to get the plastic covers on that came with them. However, there is no movement in them as you are driving. I can foresee the constant removal and replacement of the covers as not being good for the mounts. This might be a good time to invest in the acrylic sheilds, they are only about $16 CDN and just snap on. The advantages are that the lights are always ready to go, you don't have to put wear on the mount and they protect your investment against flying debris when you have the lights on whereas the stock covers don't allow the lights to be used when they're in place. The only drawback is that you absolutely can not use a higher wattage bulb than those that come stock or you will crack your lens assembly, which is a fair amount of $ to replace. You must also be a little more careful when cleaning them. Never use an amonia based cleaner (ie - Windex) on acrylic. Water and detergent are the best.

Show us pics when you get them.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Hey,
Does anyone know where I can get those clear covers. I have the Hella part number, but I can't find any place that sells them let alone has them in stock.

Seth


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

Try TracRacing in Montreal (they may not list them on their site, but you can call)or Rally Lights from the US. If all that fails, I know some Ottawa & Toronto dealers that can ship them to you.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Hey,
Track Racing didn't have them (didn't know they existsed, maybe I should pay them a visit), but rally lights did. They should be here in a week or so.
Thanks.

Seth


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

So, 
Here's the Hella FF200's installed:


















Seth

P.S. for some reason the driver side lamp seems to be an inch to the left. But it isn't. Hmm....my hood needs to be re-aligned too...


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Wonderful,
The micro DE's just cam in and they are about the size of a styrofoam coffee cup. Now thats real small for lighting, and it fits perfectly in the hole next to the driving lights above. Only the mount doesn't. Now I have to hack away at the bumper again.

Seth


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

OK,
Everything is in its final stages. All the wiring is hooked up short of the switches run to the inside. There is a hole behind the drivers side turn signall and I can run the in there, that goes behind the fender to a hole behind the fuses insude. The just run the wires up along the steering column and mound behind the light stalk.
Now, I have the relays and the 10 cables in the harness snakieing along the drivers side fender by the battery, airbox, and left suspension mount. It aint too pretty, but it is out of the way. Is this 'suitable' for wiring, or should i move them. The excess wire is coiled up and stuffed behind the grille so it doesn't get in the way, and isn't near any hot part of the engine (namely the radiator).

Seth


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

Personally, I would trim all that extra wiring, but I'm not planning on transfering the lights to another car in the future. If I do, I'll just rewire.

What are you mounting in the light/signal stalk? Is that to operate them with the hi/low beams? Where are you locating the master switch for each?

They look good in that position, no too big. Just be careful on snowbank bashing missions.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Hey,
The master switch will be behind the signal stalk. Not connected to it or on it. Sorry about the confusion.

Seth


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

OK,
All4 are hooked up. I'll aim them tonight. I'll take pictures tomorrow afternoon. I may post them then, or saturday night. 
BTW, the switches came with double sided tape which does NOT stick to the dash. Any reccomendations on mounting?

Seth


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

The switches that came with my 500s are mounted by drilling a hole and screwing them into your dash.

How about 5 min epoxy or silicone?


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Yeah,
That's what I was thinking.

Seth


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Ta daa!









Seth


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## cranium (Oct 8, 2002)

*i know its a little late*

there is an alternitive to piaa's, catz or hellas, there called "lazer star". they are small off road lights that i have used on sandrails and have a CNC'ed housings that use small halogen lights that are "like"(but not, from what i hear) the ones used in "low voltage" mini track lighting.

you can get them with 35 watt, 50 watt, 75 watt and 100 watt in either flood or spot(driving). the cost i have seen for them is $120 to $140 depending on were you get them.

i have personally seen the 75 watt floods and spots, and lets just say BRIGHT and well pattered. although you would probable piss oncoming traffic off but if used like brights on your headlights then they would be perfect.

to see what they look like go here(these are on a quad but the lights look the same)

http://alba.buyol.com/Item/ATV9901-2135N.htm


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

So, now that you've had them a while, how do they work?


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Well,
The fogs are great. On a normal night they are pretty much invisible (read useless) however in rain or other inclement weather (snow or, you guessed it, fog) they light up everything from the bumper of your car plus 3 feet in width or so to each side directly ahead for 25-45 feet or so. Its good so you dont' hit potholes, animals, speed bumpr, etc at speed whch your regular lows can't catch.
Normally with low beams there is this spot like 35 feet in front of the car and thats it unless there is a sign which is reflective. But the fogs don't miss a thing, I almost dont need the low beams, but then again they go a bit farther down the road.
Unfortunately I have been in the city the whole time so haven't used the driving lights that much. Every now and then I drive behind some buildings (like a home depot) or go down a dark street to see how they work. I think I have them aimed a little low since the front of the car and 15 feet in front is WAY bright. Also it lights up the sides in front of the car well too. As for distance, I can't tell yet. The beam is narrow so going down dark alleys doesn't tell you anything since in front of the car is open. It is however both brighter and has a longer range than my highs, the question is are they as wide as the highs (I think not which is why it is good to run highs and the driving lights together), and how much farther is farther.
I guess I'll need a road trip to tell whats the real deal. Its a shame I can't make it on the 19th.

Seth


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