# Throttle Body Spacer and CAI input needed!!



## Hitman86 (Jan 4, 2007)

Hey guys, 

So I have an 03 frontier V6 2wd and I am thinking of doing some upgrades to get better MPG and performance. 

So here is what I am looking at so far, a throttle body spacer and a Cold Air Intake. Now I know putting on a CAI is a good idea but what brand would you suggest, and does anyone have a throttle body spacer on their truck or suv?

Thanks in advance for the help.


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## TonkaDriver (Jan 5, 2007)

Hi Hitman,
I have done a TBS and am pleased with the results. After doing a lot of research I installed a Street Performance TBS on my 01 V6. I am averaging 1-1.5 mpg better and midrange power has improved enough to be noticeable. I have actually seen about 310 miles out of a tank (highway), compared to around 240 previous to the install. The local tire and alignment tech installed the same brand with better results than mine on a much larger (Dodge Hemi) motor. I have a (not back yard) mechanic next door that occasionally lends me a hand and he also noticed the difference after driving before & after. I found uniform complaints noise with another brand (it's red) and stayed away from it for that reason. The red TBS also has a slightly different design from the brand I used, and presumably accounts for the noise complaints. I paid about $100 and consider it money well spent. I have had a K&N drop-in on the truck since new. No other engine or intake mods yet. I will be installing a NISMO CAI this month & can pm you the impressions if you'd like.
I have read of decreased in performance a TBS installation, but can not tell you what brand or if it was correctly installed. It could be easy to accidentally reverse the spacer so it would restrict airflow instead of enhance it, so be sure it is done correctly.


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## Hitman86 (Jan 4, 2007)

Hey thanks for the input. Ya I would love to hear you impressions on the cai that you put in the cai. 

Thanks for the feedback keep it comeing!!!


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## TonkaDriver (Jan 5, 2007)

Will do, the exhaust will come after the CAI, then I am going to send out the computer for reprogramming. I should be content then until I pick up one of the 6sp NISMO's. Your tires & wheels also play a bigger role in the older trucks bercause of the large power discrepancy. Check your tire weights @ the Tire Rack & other info tire & wheel related. Great resource and selection.


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## top_shelf (Jan 2, 2007)

TonkaDriver said:


> Hi Hitman,
> I have done a TBS and am pleased with the results. After doing a lot of research I installed a Street Performance TBS on my 01 V6. I am averaging 1-1.5 mpg better and midrange power has improved enough to be noticeable. I have actually seen about 310 miles out of a tank (highway), compared to around 240 previous to the install. The local tire and alignment tech installed the same brand with better results than mine on a much larger (Dodge Hemi) motor. I have a (not back yard) mechanic next door that occasionally lends me a hand and he also noticed the difference after driving before & after. I found uniform complaints noise with another brand (it's red) and stayed away from it for that reason. The red TBS also has a slightly different design from the brand I used, and presumably accounts for the noise complaints. I paid about $100 and consider it money well spent. I have had a K&N drop-in on the truck since new. No other engine or intake mods yet. I will be installing a NISMO CAI this month & can pm you the impressions if you'd like.
> I have read of decreased in performance a TBS installation, but can not tell you what brand or if it was correctly installed. It could be easy to accidentally reverse the spacer so it would restrict airflow instead of enhance it, so be sure it is done correctly.


Hitman, I also agree with TonkaDriver because i actually installed the noisy TBS (the red one) and was not happy. I took it off after 5,000 miles because i couldn't stand the noise and wasn't happy with the performance of the part. I will be looking to install the Street Performance TBS as Tonka advised.


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## TonkaDriver (Jan 5, 2007)

Top shelf, 
I'd really like to hear how yours goes, as you have the same truck. Do us a favor (you were probabally going to anyway) and check your mileage befoe & after with a clean filter in place. Be curious to get your take on this, as nobody has been neutral. When you see the new TBS you will immediately see the design difference vs. the Airraid. You will need to get some tubing as you will have to cut a longer hose for the TBS coolant line. Also you will need some loctite and new hose clamps (pinch type work well). A spare set of hands was also very helpfull in a couple of spots. The whole thing was a little less than an hour, and I had not done one previous to this. I found price differences of up to $20, so shop around.

Good luck!


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## Hitman86 (Jan 4, 2007)

This is the one that I plan on getting, and it [email protected]@ks to be about $102 shipped. 
Nissan Parts 2004 Frontier 2WD V6 Nissan Throttle Body Spacer

On a side note I have a friend that is a street racer and he has put serveral CAI's on his cars and his advice was to stay away from K&N filters and CAI's. He said that he never got the performance and horse power that they claim to have. This is what he recomended Performance Parts and Accessories Catalog - Auto Parts Warehouse I think that I will go with the polished version.

Let me know what you guys think!!!


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## TonkaDriver (Jan 5, 2007)

Hit man that is the spacer. I have heard from another friend who has an AEM that they are good, but he also said it made a little more noise than he cared for. This was not on a Frontier, but one of the new Dodge's. As far a staying away from K&N's & CAI's?
No way. I have done back to back comparisons on at least 6 of my cars and they do breathe a little better with the K&N drop in. The performance of the CAI will be enhanced by a better flowing exhaust also. If you are going to allow the engine to flow more air in, you need to do the same at the other end. I am going to try the NISMO intake on mine, and still am not finished deciding on exhaust. I do like the look of the polished intake tube though on the AEM.


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

Throttle body spacers on MPFI engines do NOTHING. Just a tip. They're a complete waste of money, people have dyno tested the things to death.

Read up here, this is recent. Guy took off his TB spacer and GAINED power.
NissanOffroad.Net - Talk about improved throttle response!

Another thread with even more info in it...
NissanOffroad.Net - Throttle Body Spacers


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## TonkaDriver (Jan 5, 2007)

88pathoffroad said:


> Throttle body spacers on MPFI engines do NOTHING. Just a tip. They're a complete waste of money, people have dyno tested the things to death.
> 
> Read up here, this is recent. Guy took off his TB spacer and GAINED power.
> NissanOffroad.Net - Talk about improved throttle response!
> ...


I guess if another 1-1.5mpg is "NOTHING", you would be correct. The guy you are considering knowledgeable, OffroadX, The So Called Answer Man, also is advising people to be sure and "flush" diff's & transfer cases 3-4 times with synthetic lubes if they want to switch from conventional base stock lubrication. 2 months prior your "expert" was giving some one else the exact same opposite advice.

Way too many experts with nothing other than 3rd hand anecdotal "information".
How do you even know some of these guys even put the spacer on correctly oriented?
Also, if you had read further, many people using the red (Airraid) have had the gasket melt. This would cause significant performance problems also.

The initial solicitation for this thread wanted input from people who had actually used what he was looking at. I am surprised that a moderator would use their apparent authority in such a manner.


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

1. Kiss my ass.
2. Please feel free to provide us a dyno sheet that proves any significant performance gain as a result of simply by adding a spacer to a bone-stock vehicle. 1-1.5 MPG is an error variance, not proof of performance.
3. I do not know OffroadX other than reading his posts on forums, but he has more experience than a lot of other people with regards to newer Nissan trucks. Basing his reputation on one post about flushing out a diff is completely wrong.


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

You can also check out some of the threads posted here about the same subject, since nobody seems to be capable of using the Search function before asking questions...

http://www.nissanforums.com/frontier/121848-airaid-tbs.html?highlight=spacer
http://www.nissanforums.com/frontier/114800-throttle-body-spacer-question.html?highlight=spacer
http://www.nissanforums.com/frontier/98885-throttle-body-spacer.html?highlight=spacer
http://www.nissanforums.com/truck-suv/81558-engine-mileage-improvements.html?highlight=spacer


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

> The Impact of Performance Modifications on Fuel Efficiency
> Throttle Body Spacers
> 
> One of the most commonly advertised devices for improved horsepower and fuel efficiency is a throttle body spacer. They are relatively inexpensive devices and simple to install. In theory, the devices work by creating turbulence in the air intake stream. Fuel becomes more volatile when rendered aerosol and turbulent air flow allegedly makes this transition easier, but the claims are met with a great deal of skepticism.
> ...


From this website: OmniNerd - Articles: Increasing MPG: The Factors Affecting Fuel Efficiency


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

> Q. I am looking for advice about throttle body spacers that I have read about in several advertisements. I would like to know if they are a wise investment, and what I can really expect from them. I don't want to dish out the money and not get increased mileage in return.
> 
> A. I haven't seen any throttle body spacers advertised as improving fuel economy. Which is fine, because they don't.


From the Boston Globe: Drive It Forever - The Boston Globe


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

> I believe the bottom line is that a throttle body spacer can at least theoretically help a carb or throttle body (Glorified carb...) engine, but, I doubt that you will find any measurable difference with a mult-port fuel injected engine (That we have).
> 
> - UNLESS you change the throttle area or are correcting for some really bad plenum inlet geometries. (i.e. a 90deg turn right before the throttle, size mismatch, etc.)
> 
> ...


From XterraFirma forums...
Xterra Firma :: View topic - Throttle Body Spacers?


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

> *Fuel Economy Myths: Throttle Body Spacers*
> Read 45,863 Times
> Posted Aug 23, 2005, 2:04 PM ET by Mike
> 
> ...


Myth busted by TruckBlog.com:
Truckblog - Fuel Economy Myths: Throttle Body Spacers


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

> Do throttle body spacers really work? The theories behind how they are supposed to, leave many unanswered questions.
> 
> The idea of the Throttle Body Spacer is an old one that stretches back to the fifties. The idea of adding some space between the intake manifold and, back then, the carburetor was to improve the downward curve of the air and fuel so that it does not hit the bottom of the intake before it is directed into the intake ports. The second idea is that a spacer with an open plenum can add more volume to an intake manifold, which increases top-end horsepower. Likewise Spacers with four carburetor holes can increase throttle response by providing a stronger vacuum signal to the carburetor and by isolating the carburetor from turbulence in the plenum.
> 
> ...


From truckworld.com: http://truckworld.tenmagazines.com/tenArticle.asp?aid=254&sid=42&cat=4&sc=3


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## Hitman86 (Jan 4, 2007)

88pathoffroad your point has been made and remade far to many times. I really appreciate your input and I will look into this info in depth. But I would ask you to not hijack my thread in the future. The info that you are providing would be best received in a pm. Thanks for all the input.

More info please everyone else.


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## TonkaDriver (Jan 5, 2007)

*Response to 88pathoffroad on throttle body spacers*



88pathoffroad said:


> 1. Kiss my ass.
> 2. Please feel free to provide us a dyno sheet that proves any significant performance gain as a result of simply by adding a spacer to a bone-stock vehicle. 1-1.5 MPG is an error variance, not proof of performance.
> 3. I do not know OffroadX other than reading his posts on forums, but he has more experience than a lot of other people with regards to newer Nissan trucks. Basing his reputation on one post about flushing out a diff is completely wrong.


Hi 88pathoffroad,

I can guarantee you that 1-1.5guarantee for me is not an "error variance" as you so incorrectly choose to characterize it. I would imagine that anyone who owned a VG33e equipped Frontier would not think this large a %gain in mpg is a mere "error variance" either. Further, gains like this are statistically significant, and if the term terms "bell curve" and "standard deviation" meant anything to you we would not be having this discussion. Having had a little more than an 8th grade education, I understand that demonstrated, repeatable results, given the same variables and constants, leads to empirical evidence. That is precisely what I presented to a member who asked a question of other members that had tried a specific product. You don't seem to have any _personal_ knowledge of throttle body spacers. Just like your friend OffroadX. In fact you both seem to be blow hard know-it-alls and seem to think that the number of post whore, riddled with un-validated opinion and second hand anecdotal (my brother's, cousin's, uncle's ********* step son installed one and it didn't work...)information makes you experts.

As far as providing documented dyno results, the nearest shop with a dyno is a 3 hour round trip. Given the mpg of the V6 Frontier I chose to do back to back comparisons with my truck before and after, and relayed my impressions. I have no dog in this hunt with regard to product, and my evaluations were objective with regard to any performance improvement. The documented additional mpg I am getting consistently would confirm overall performance gains after the Street Performance (I have not tried other brands) TBS install.

*Your first and most important response I think says enough: "Kiss my ass".*
You probably did not understand my earlier reference to "apparent authority". Apparent authority refers to your status of "moderator". One would typically expect someone in this position to be knowledgeable, objective and courteous at a minimum.

You are none of these. You have no place as a moderator, and I think it is obvious to any that have read this entire thread. From your treatment of a new member to the un- professional way you conduct yourself, to your ignorance. I believe your less than 100% reputation also reflects this, but not enough. 

If you want to respond further, just vent or whatever, send me a pm. Don't waste anyone else's time that is seeking legitimate information


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## azrocketman (Oct 5, 2005)

The theory that 88 pathoffroad state makes sense. In general, to get the most efficient airflow you want as little turbulence as possible. Thgat's why folks have spent fortunes over the years port matching and polishing the passages in manifolds and heads. Off course, there are exceptions, e.g.

- Does the spacer create a larger plenum that "averages" the air demand by the engine?

- Is there a mismatch between the throttle body and the plenum that the spacer tends to correct?

- Is there an interaction between the spacer and the computer sensors that "tunes" them for more efficient operation?

Yes, there are exceptions and conditions where a spacer may offer the mileage and power gains it claims. In general, those improvements may be covering up deficient engineering, poor parts fit, or just be the luck of the draw. Speaking for myself, I might invest in a spacer for $25.00 because I can afford to dropkick it if makes no difference (or creates a problem). If I was going to start investing serious money I'd follow the paths that hot rodders have done for over 60 years.

Steve

There are two ways to make power: cubic inches or cubic dollars


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## Hitman86 (Jan 4, 2007)

azrocketman said:


> The theory that 88 pathoffroad state makes sense. In general, to get the most efficient airflow you want as little turbulence as possible. Thgat's why folks have spent fortunes over the years port matching and polishing the passages in manifolds and heads. Off course, there are exceptions, e.g.
> 
> - Does the spacer create a larger plenum that "averages" the air demand by the engine?
> 
> ...


Now we are back on topic. I do appreciate the input and feedback that everyone is giving thanks so much.


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

TonkaDriver said:


> Hi 88pathoffroad,
> 
> I can guarantee you that 1-1.5 guarantee for me is not an "error variance" as you so incorrectly choose to characterize it. I would imagine that anyone who owned a VG33e equipped Frontier would not think this large a %gain in mpg is a mere "error variance" either. Further, gains like this are statistically significant, and if the term terms "bell curve" and "standard deviation" meant anything to you we would not be having this discussion.


Why is it that everyone with a TB spacer has not reported an additional 1-1.5 MPG efficiency increase merely from installing the spacer? Also, how long will it take you to recoup the cost of the spacer in MPG savings at today's fuel costs? Wasn't the selling point of the spacer a "significant gain in power and MPG"? You can experience a 1-1.5 MPG variance with a tailwind on the freeway, by driving in different temperatures, by getting a tank of poor-grade fuel, or simply by driving until the tires wear out and change the overall circumference enough to make a difference. The list of things that will vary your mileage is way too long.



> Having had a little more than an 8th grade education, I understand that demonstrated, repeatable results, given the same variables and constants, leads to empirical evidence.


True. Thanks for the implied jab. Do you have some sort of spreadsheet showing refuel dates, mileage and fuel amounts to show for your effort?



> That is precisely what I presented to a member who asked a question of other members that had tried a specific product. You don't seem to have any _personal_ knowledge of throttle body spacers. Just like your friend OffroadX.


Actually, I do. Having made my own from UHMWPE, then recording fuel consumption and overall seat-of-the-pants driving results helped me find that they do squat on my engine. Mine is a TBI VG30i, not a MPFI VG33E. Theoretically, the spacer should give me more of a gain than a MPFI engine due to the intake design, wouldn't you agree?



> In fact you both seem to be blow hard know-it-alls and seem to think that the number of post whore, riddled with un-validated opinion and second hand anecdotal (my brother's, cousin's, uncle's ********* step son installed one and it didn't work...)information makes you experts.


"Seem to be" is the root of that. It may just be that your reading glasses need cleaning. By the way, who made _you_ the expert?



> As far as providing documented dyno results, the nearest shop with a dyno is a 3 hour round trip. Given the mpg of the V6 Frontier I chose to do back to back comparisons with my truck before and after, and relayed my impressions.


I have no argument with not providing personal dyno sheets, dyno time is generally expensive. ANYONE that has a dyno sheet showing an improvement after install of a TBS, please post up! ....oh. I though as much. De nada.



> I have no dog in this hunt with regard to product, and my evaluations were objective with regard to any performance improvement. The documented additional mpg I am getting consistently would confirm overall performance gains after the Street Performance (I have not tried other brands) TBS install.


I have no qualms with your results. I just wish the results you had would manifest themselves _in more than one vehicle._ Or repeatedly, at least.



> *Your first and most important response I think says enough: "Kiss my ass".*
> You probably did not understand my earlier reference to "apparent authority". Apparent authority refers to your status of "moderator". One would typically expect someone in this position to be knowledgeable, objective and courteous at a minimum.
> 
> You are none of these. You have no place as a moderator, and I think it is obvious to any that have read this entire thread. From your treatment of a new member to the un- professional way you conduct yourself, to your ignorance. I believe your less than 100% reputation also reflects this, but not enough.


Hey, I was _asked_ to provide mod services for the truck forum. Otherwise nobody would be on top of all the double posts, repeats and misplaced threads around here. Believe me, it's no picnic. By the way, what are the requirements to be a "professional" moderator of an internet forum? Any Tom, Dick or Hairy can buy webspace and run their own.



> If you want to respond further, just vent or whatever, send me a pm. Don't waste anyone else's time that is seeking legitimate information


If "anyone else" doesn't want to waste their time, I suppose they can just skip this message and not bother reading it. I have something to say regarding this topic, so here we are. Thank you for your support!

-88


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

TonkaDriver said:


> I have read of decreased in performance a TBS installation, but can not tell you what brand or if it was correctly installed. It could be easy to accidentally reverse the spacer so it would restrict airflow instead of enhance it, so be sure it is done correctly.


How do you reason that a backwards spacer would DECREASE airflow in any way? That makes no sense whatsoever, being that the spacers are bored cylindrically.


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## TonkaDriver (Jan 5, 2007)

Look, you don't know what the hell you are talking about. It is very clear after reading your final post that you have never even had a throttle body spacer in your hands, let alone installed one. As for my implied jabs? They were not implied, you confirmed them with your comically ridiculous "support" of your own arguments. No one else made you look like an idiot other than yourself. My disclaimer you posted above speaks for itself.

Don't you have some kids or a wife to beat, or _something_ better to do?


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## Hitman86 (Jan 4, 2007)

88pathoffroad said:


> Why is it that everyone with a TB spacer has not reported an additional 1-1.5 MPG efficiency increase merely from installing the spacer? Also, how long will it take you to recoup the cost of the spacer in MPG savings at today's fuel costs? Wasn't the selling point of the spacer a "significant gain in power and MPG"? You can experience a 1-1.5 MPG variance with a tailwind on the freeway, by driving in different temperatures, by getting a tank of poor-grade fuel, or simply by driving until the tires wear out and change the overall circumference enough to make a difference. The list of things that will vary your mileage is way too long.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to admit 88Path that with this response, after I asked you to not post anymore in my thread, you are looking more and more less informed on the subject matter at hand. for these reasons:
1. You don't have the same engine type as I do.
2. You made yours out of who know what kind of sub standard metal.
3. There is no way of knowing how experienced you are working with metal.
4. Even if you did a half way decent job "making" your own it still wouldn't be up to industry it still would have an element of human error.
5. You are a Mod. and with that comes some responsibility to know when to NOT hijack a thread. Say what you have to say and then shut the heck up.

So now for the last time PLEASE STAY OUT OF MY THREAD. I'm really not interested in a group of guys getting into a pissing match over a TBS or CAI. In the long run it's really not worth it...at all. 

Tonka please just pm me if you want to talk I really don't think this should go any farther.


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## top_shelf (Jan 2, 2007)

well said Hitman, well said!!


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## nissanmadness (Sep 18, 2006)

Just my 2cents, I think 88path and Tonka are both smart, as well as other posters. If a bolt-on item works for one and not for another, it could be due to many variables. Atmospheric pressures at different elevations, temperatures, tire size and pressures, timing, gas octane ratings etc... All can account for different results. There is no need to split hairs. If it works for you, then go with it. Then it can be said that two opposing view points should be allowed to express thier opinions or results, and be right at the same time.


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

That's enough, thanks. I think this thread has served it's purpose.


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