# Modding stock ECU/ECM/ECCS



## ion_four (Oct 31, 2003)

Hi all, new to the board...first post?

I have experience reprogramming stock honda ecus and am looking into buying an s13 and I want to know if anyone, aside from JWT, has figured out how to do this for the ka24de ecu? I know software to write new ROMs is available for the SR and CA engine computers, but I haven't seen jack-crap for the ka. Any help would be appreciated! It seems like it might be easier to run the ka24de off of the sr20det ecu, rather than hacking the ka, since reprogramming it is pretty common knowledge, but aside from direct-fire vs. distributor ignition what differences are there? (I don't mean turbo or displacement )


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## dreadsword (Dec 2, 2002)

Good luck, I have no idea! While you're at it, keep your eye open for GA software too...


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## ion_four (Oct 31, 2003)

dreadsword said:


> Good luck, I have no idea! While you're at it, keep your eye open for GA software too...



If someone has an OBDI ka24de ecu sitting around, I might be able to figure it out on my own. It would take a LONG time to really hack everything, but finding the fuel/ignition maps wouldn't take too long. OBDII is a different story...basically no one has hacked that for any car, that I know of, because it's pretty damned complicated...lots of self-checks, so when you change something the ecu knows and freaks out.

Can someone at least tell me the name/designation of this ecu so I don't have to search for "ka24de ecu" since I don't think that's right?


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## Taffy (Oct 30, 2003)

ion_four said:


> If someone has an OBDI ka24de ecu sitting around, I might be able to figure it out on my own. It would take a LONG time to really hack everything, but finding the fuel/ignition maps wouldn't take too long. OBDII is a different story...basically no one has hacked that for any car, that I know of, because it's pretty damned complicated...lots of self-checks, so when you change something the ecu knows and freaks out.
> 
> Can someone at least tell me the name/designation of this ecu so I don't have to search for "ka24de ecu" since I don't think that's right?


We have been trying to figure out how to run the SR20DET with the KA computer. We have over 20 KA ECUs sitting around from the swaps. The problem with using the KA computer is that it does not have a circuit, atleast we have not found one yet, to run the Coil On Plug ignition. As you know, the KA uses a distributor.

Using the SR20DET computer to run the KA might work, we have not tried. The biggest reason is because the SR computer is hard to get ahold of. When someone has one, they want top dollar for it. I do not blame them really.

If and when we get the SR20DETs to work using the KA computer, we are in like Flynn. But it does not look good.


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## ion_four (Oct 31, 2003)

Yeah, I tried to figure out how to run individual coils with my honda distributor ecu, but the only way I could figure it was to take a crank signal, or add another hall-effect sensor, and use that to switch relays/transistors to fire coils on cyl. 1,4 and 3,2, since the firing order is 1-3-4-2...to explain it a bit better...

You don't want the ignition firing at the end of the induction stroke, but it doesn't matter if it fires at the end of the exhaust stroke, since this will just help emissions, so if it fires on 2 of the 4 strokes, you are cool. Thus, you could use 2 high-speed relays (or power transistors) to flip-flop between cylinders 1,4 and 3,2 (I think?!) so they each fire twice during each four strokes. You would just have to manually adjust this yourself, initially. Does that make any sense?

On the other hand, you could screw the crank signal, or hall-effect and just go with a straight flip-flop circuit, so that 1,4 fire (one right before power stroke, the other before the induction stroke), then are off, then 3,2 fire...no sensors are involved...just hard-wired logic that when one bank of two fires, the other two can't fire until the other are off!

You could do it for each coil, individually, but you'd need like 8 or 16 relays/switching transistors...and or a microcontroller to do it.

Sorry, I'm a bit hazy...been drinkin...do you happen to have any rom dumps from the KA ecu?! If not, what would it take for me to snag one of these, and/or can you direct me to any site that is more focused on nissan ecu hacking?

Yeah, if that didn't make any sense, let me know...because, I am pretty sure it would work, but I've just lost focus on that particular goal...


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

dude, get a greddy e-manage which will allow you to change a/f and timing with a couple harness and a laptop, it lists how to hook up to a ka and an sr, i believe that it is just different jumpers. in all it costs about 450 with all harnesses, or just go stand alone. don't waste your time without a dyno facility and proper testing equipment, and remember our ecu's are not speed/density based like a honda so it will be more difficult to do.


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## ion_four (Oct 31, 2003)

sersr20dk said:


> dude, get a greddy e-manage which will allow you to change a/f and timing with a couple harness and a laptop, it lists how to hook up to a ka and an sr, i believe that it is just different jumpers. in all it costs about 450 with all harnesses, or just go stand alone. don't waste your time without a dyno facility and proper testing equipment, and remember our ecu's are not speed/density based like a honda so it will be more difficult to do.


well dude,  As far as I understand, the E-manage is not leaps and bounds better than just an AFC. Yes, it can do timing and has more points of adjustability, and some other neat feautures, but it's range of adjustment is smaller than the AFC at only +-20%. Though, I'm not sure if I'd really need more (presently, I'd have to use like -40% trim, on my honda, as an example) 

Actually, looking at their site...http://www.greddy.com/products/electronics_frame.htm

"Additional features that are built into the system, but are only accessible though the use of our PC-Windows based "e-Manage Support Tool" communication software (Please see our Authorized GReddy Support Dealers for more information)" 

It seems that you only get 5 points of fuel adjustability, while all other features fall under this quoted piece...which makes it sound like one has to go to an "Authorize support dealer" to get it tuned, but I hope not. Since that would make it trash. 

If it's FULLY adjustable my the end-user, then it's not a bad idea, at all...however, there doesn't seem to be anything that it can do that I can't already with my chip burner and wideband (for datalogging). So, basically I could have a FREE e-manage if I could get a KA ecu and find the stock fuel/ignition tables to play with.

:thumbup:

::EDIT::...but, it is pretty and has little knobs! That's seriously almost enough to make me buy it, haha. I saw a guy that had it mounted in a DIN plate in his dash, with the knobs facing outward so he could tweak it, if need be, and it looked very slick.


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

read a little more into this before grouping it with the afc, the injector size can be increased by up to 150% as opposed to 50% with an afc, you can't do timing with an afc and the e-manage has a fully adjustable 16x16 fuel map, which you adjust on the laptop, all those knobs you see that are pretty are jumpers and such. all tuning is done on the laptop. the e-manage also allows the user to select from different maf's preprogrammed into the software, such as in your case a 300zx, its already in there, just point and click, you also just plug in inj size of the old and size of the new, and it does the correction factor for you, not that it is really that hard. it is leaps and bounds above the s-afc. it also allows for the addition of a map sensor and can be made to work with a wideband o2 sensor for tuning. can an afc do that, no, all it can do is modify the injector size correction, and allow you to read realtime a few sensors that are already there. make a choice, pull your hair out and try to crack the computer which companies have spent thousands of dollars on r and d to make it just right, or pay less than 400 for a unit with software, ps. you don't need a laptop either, you can hook it up to a pc, i had a computer in my driveway with a monitor the first one i did, cause i didn't have a laptop.


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## ion_four (Oct 31, 2003)

are you sure you can run an injector that is 150% larger than stock, or just 150% OF stock, 2.5times vs. 1.5 times? I did read all the info on the GReddy site, but it's pretty sparse. Immediately after posting I looked on ebay and the unit, by itself, can be had for under $300, shipped. Damnit, I was excited. However, it still requires the cable and software to be tuned with more than 5pts of adjustability, which is kinda lame on their part. Then, still more for the premade harnesses and whatnot...

There is also a nagging problem with piggy-back units fighting the long-term fuel trim on the ecu, and such. I also wonder how this thing compensates by having only one fuel map, when the stock ecu has two, as far as I know. One being "high octane" and the other "low octane", which I believe are chosen merely on the level of knock at WOT. I guess it doesn't REALLY matter, since it's merely adjusting what the stock ecu sees and does.

My deal is this. I realize it's a pretty good product and allows a good deal of adjustability, but...at present chipping the stock ecu would probably only cost time, no money at all, since I already have a chip burner, wideband and some knowledge of such things on hondas. Chipping a honda is pretty ridiculously easy, especially with some of the software now available, so I'm just wondering what would make doing the same the the KA24DE(T) ecu so difficult, considering the SR20DET can be done pretty easily?

(Note) I realize there is also the JWT cost-alot system, as well as every other standalone under the sun...but, I'm really just asking about info on the stock ecu...so, thanks anyway.


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