# Timing chain replacement in progress..Oil pan question



## dafaceman (Apr 26, 2010)

My 97 4x4 Hardbody with the 2.4 KA24E was rattling bad on startup, common I read. So decided to change the timing chain, gears, everything this three day weekend. 
Everything went well this afternoon when I started, and got the front cover off no issues. Plastic guide cover was missing on the bottom 1/3 of the guide. No damage in water jacket, and chain is a little stretched. Didnt jump a tooth on the timing, its dead on where it should be. Problem is I dont see the broken pieces of the guide. The oil pan is rear sump, and you cant reach back in there and clean the pan. 
So I looked for instructions on pan removal to clean it out, and read I have to raise the engine to be able to drop it enough to get it out. What a PITA it looks like to do. Got to where I am in about 3 hours, and now this!! I wish there was a removalable/sealable small panel in the bottom of the pan for this...There is a idea, make one...
But anyone got instructions to remove the pan? I searched the site, and any advice would be appreciated. This is suspesto be labor day weekend, and looks like I will be doing labor instead of chillin and having a cold one. 
Its a 4x4, if it was 4x2 I would already have it off. Looks like front diff needs to be taken out? Or can one raise enough to get around that? Whats involved in raising it?
Thanks, help appreciated


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## Grug (Aug 20, 2009)

Hey there defaceman. Now I've never done this job before so I'm not speaking from personal experience. But I thought Nissan got rid of the plastic guides in either '94 or '95? Or maybe the newer metal guides had plastic components? If there was plastic in there, would it float? If it did, I wonder if a fella' could somehow use this to his advantage?

From what I've read about 4WD timing chains, manuals say the front differential has to be dropped after disconnecting driveshafts and all that fun stuff. However, many guys (yourself included) say they've done the chain job without dropping the front diff.

Awhile back I suggested a replacement two piece oil pan for the 4WD's, but no one seemed to know of the existence of such a thing.

Keep us posted as I've got the exact truck you've got and I'm gonna' have to do my chain sometime in the future.

Good luck, man!


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## dafaceman (Apr 26, 2010)

yeah the 97 had a plastic cover over the metal guide. Its the improved design, but still not the best in the world.I..The bottom 1/4 of the plastic cover was missing when the cover was taken off, and dont see it either. No room between the crank and pan to reach back either. I had also thought the plastic should "float" and thought maybe using a fish tank net-the kind you scoop fish with, Flood the pan, and reach back and scoop the pieces out. Nope. Pan has to be taken off, its too far back, sumped, and no clearance between crank. 
I have other problems now though, while taking the cover off, without removing the pan or head, seems the head gasket was kinda "stuck" to the top of the cover. When the cover came out, it screwed the head gasket up.
Thats what I get for trying to take a shortcut I guess. Now I get to pull the head and replace the head gasket, and I am suspesto drive this truck for work tomorrow! 
If I had to do this again, I would drop the pan, or like the nissan FSM says, loosen the head to gain extra clearance. My head gasket had "bonded" itself to the top of the timing cover, so when I pulled the cover, oops! Didnt realize it till I went to pull the cam gear, and saw the gasket pulled down and crinkled. It wont seal up now, so I didnt even bother trying. That much I know better to try.

can we say PITA..


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## Grug (Aug 20, 2009)

Oh man. When it rains it pours! Somewhere, someone has made a little voodoo doll of you and they're pokin' it with broken Nissan parts.

Have you been to this forum? Nissan4wheelers.com Forum - Powered by Social Strata

They might be able to help with differential removal questions.

And, interesting enough...not only does my four banger '97 4WD need a chain, but I suspect I have a small head gasket leak near cylinder four close to the firewall (might be a half moon gasket, but don't think). So...again, I'm gonna' be interested in how this all pans out for you.

Well, not sure what else to tell you other than good luck and keep us posted.


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## dafaceman (Apr 26, 2010)

was thinking, since this part of the head gasket is not actually sealing the head/cyl's, why cant I just right stuff it? This part of the head gasket is actually just over the front cover, so no chance of coolant leaking there. I have to have this running by tomorrow. I am the star of a 1 man show of a repair biz, and this is my service truck. 
So I am going to take a small hammer(you know the type like you find in the dollar stores-kid size) and put a thin piece of metal between the head gasket and head, and tap it back semi straight-it got crinkled on removal, and there is a pretty good crease in it now. Once its tapped into shape, apply a layer of right stuff under it and mate it to the head. Then try and reapply the front cover. Also gonna look at raising the engine to drop the pan  which I should have just done to begin with BTW. 
Worse case, is I have a oil leak outwards, if it leaks inwards, who cares its going back into the area where the cam gear is. I might even try to cut that part of the gasket out there that mates to the cover and head. That would allow it to pop back in without dropping the pan too! I am 42 years old, and worked on all my own cars from 15 years old. Swapped many a engines and trannys, These nissans are great running and reliable trucks, but by far the most PITA I have worked on yet far as having to tear so much to do something so simple. 

See what happens next


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## Grug (Aug 20, 2009)

Your logic regarding the head gasket over the timing cover seems to make sense. 

As far as fishing out the plastic remains of the guide from the sump...what about something like a Shop-Vac? Possible to get some kind of nozzle down in there?


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## dafaceman (Apr 26, 2010)

Think I got it to seal up, looks good anyway, I got permatex right stuff squished out everywhere there was a place to seal up at. Might have escaped having to do the head gasket!

Far as fishing pieces out. My syncro's are going in the truck. My buddie that owns a repair shop, told me he would rebuild the tranny for 300 plus parts. This truck has been driving 20K with the pieces in the pan, and will be also for the next week or two till he gets it. He has to drop the tranny and everything so I will kick him some extra $$ to replace the oil pan gasket and remove the pieces. There is no room to get anything back there, the only clearance is around the curved part of the crank, and it would have to be a real real small diameter hose to reach to the back of the pan, let alone guide it down to the bottom of the sump, and then chances are it would clog with the first piece trying to be sucked up. Plan on dropping the pan, yeah I know its a pita, but do it sometime where you got days and days if need be, go slow, have your drinks or whatever from time and time, and just do it. Avoid the crap and band aid repair I had to do today. Sooner or later I will prolly have to replace the head gasket, and who knows I could have warped the front of it today trying to get crap to seal over the timing cover. 

I am not worried about the pieces for now clogging the oil pickup, havent heard of anyone having that happen yet, and lots and lots of hardbodies are on the road right now with their guide pieces floating around down there I bet. Like I said this truck was driven the last 20K rattling on startup, so they were in there for that period. 

Putting it together, and letting it sit for 4 hours before I add any fluids. The right stuff gasket maker says 1 min after tightening down, but I will wait to make sure. 

fingers crossed


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## dafaceman (Apr 26, 2010)

Up and running. Gasket I made over the timing cover to head is holding and show no signs of seepage. I couldnt get the factory head gasket to stay, so ended up every so carefully cutting it at where it meets the block.Cleaned the piss out of it so would hold a seal.
Like I said in earlier post, its for the area over the chain, and has no real "head gasket" effect other then its part of the head gasket. No seepage anywhere so far, and exhaust smells normal and coolant hasnt gone done any so dosent appear the farther back portion of the head gasket was damaged either. Lifters didnt need 20 min to pump back up, no rattle at all now. 
The old chain was stretched as well as the lower 1/4 plastic cover of the guide missing. If yours is rattling on startup only for a second or two, there ya go. There was no evidence of damage to the water jacket on the cover, but I imagine if it was to have kept going the way it was, it was gonna start damage there, or jump a tooth. 
Little note...Behind the chain tensioner is a very small oil port. Take the oil filter off, and spray that port with carb cleaner with the little red plastic sprayer attached, hit that up with compressed air. Do it till you see cleaner coming out where the filter is...That port comes directly to the filter, and keeps your tensioner pumped up. If it gets clogged, takes it longer to work on start up, and thats when you can knock off those plastic covers to the guide. Make sure to refill filter with oil before installing, to "prime it". Also fill oil pump, rotate a few turns to prime it, then top it off with oil before installing. Make sure you put the oil pump back in right, (half moon shaped end facing right direction) cuz if your even one crank tooth off on it from being perfect with the distributor you wont be at real TDC, and you wont have enough turn on the distributor to properly time it.
I got my timing kit at rockauto online. Their rock house brand. 74 bucks I think. Complete kit, seals and all. Was very suprized to see on the box of the chain and tensioner made in japan....Mucho better then made in china. 
Replaced the water pump as well, didnt do the thermo as I just did that a month ago, and replaced the fan clutch. It had some pretty good wobble in it. 
All parts were bought at above stated online store, and cost me about 150 bucks for everything with shipping. Dont mess around with that red/orange permatex, go get the permatex "the right stuff" gasket maker. Never had that stuff leak on ever.


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## Grug (Aug 20, 2009)

Hey...good on ya'! 

Glad to hear it worked out. I've heard that priming the oil pump and fitting it back in place is a bit of a bear (again, not speaking from personal experience). Have also heard that cleaning out that galley between the tensioner and the oil filter is real important when you do the whole job.

And no oil leaks where the base of the timing cover mates to the oil pan? Did you use gasked maker there, too?

Man, I still haven't worked up the courage to tackle mine. I'm afraid I'd get it all apart and not be able to get it back together. The rattle drives me crazy...but I'm still a little intimidated by the whole process.

So how long do you figure it took you to do this...start to finish (be on the generous side with your estimate)?


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## zanegrey (Dec 5, 2005)

grug ...u are gonna mess that engine up ..

but i sell them so whenever you are ready...


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## murphyslaw1970 (2 mo ago)

I know this is a old post, but if you loosen 3 or so bolts on each side of oil pan and pry and break the front loose it will take the pressure off of head gasket and save it as you remove timing cover. Be Safe


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