# Mystery noise ("knuckle-pop")



## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

I've got 71K on my 92 Sentra.

Quite often lately at low speed (say, generally 5-10 mph) when I've allowed the steering wheel to recover coming out of a turn (like pulling down out of our parking garage), I've heard (and sometimes felt) a slight noise--as if something binds & then frees up in rapid sequence. I'm trying to bracket this problem & I'd appreciate any & all help doing so.

This seems to be on the driver's side; when I feel it, it's through the floor--not through the steering wheel. The car tracks straight & true, without pulling to either side at all. Sometimes as I make a turn (especially to the left) & give her some gas, this knuckle-cracking will happen--but not always.

I had my outer CV boots replaced & the joints repacked at the dealership about 4 years & 20K ago. This past weekend I had the car up on ramps to change the oil & transmission fluid, and while I was at it, I gave the boots a pretty good inspection. All of them seem to be intact: no splitting, no grease coming out of there or other obvious signs of wear or trouble. Of course she was on the ramps (not the jackstands), so I couldn't really play around with the wheels too much.

So I'm thinking. . .I dunno, maybe ball joints? Bushings? Something worn/loose/in need of TLC? How can I tell for sure? The car is trying to tell me something, and so far it's been very polite, not actually crying in pain or yelling for attention--but I definitely wanna get this fixed before it causes a real problem.

I've looked around in my Haynes & Nissan factory manual, hoping to see something about screwing in a grease fitting & pumping in some good lithium grease or whatever, but I haven't come across much on that. In other cars (all RWD) I've had a steering box I could pull a plug out of & top off with hypoy gear oil, but I haven't seen anything like that.

If anybody knows of specific tests I could do to narrow this down, I'd appreciate it. My guess is that this will involve putting her up on jackstands to wiggle around the wheels & so on. But I surely don't wanna go pulling any axleshafts or stuff like that unless I absolutely have to, y'know?

Thanks for helping me keep her happy.


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## Gump (Jan 30, 2003)

sounds like ball joints, but as well you mite want to check your sway bar ends, dont know if you have them or not, as well, how are your struts? pretty low miles, but you mite want to check the motor mounts as well, check your strut mounts, seeing as how you get all the snow down there, i think we could rule out the option of rusted parts, these are all just suggestions though.


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## nastynissan (Jan 26, 2003)

DO what Gump says but stick it on stands and use a big prybar to check Balljoints, tie rods, sway bar, etc....ALSO Check your spring mounts....and little rubber pieces they sit in .... I had a problem with them disappearing on oldeer Sentras... MAybe these to?


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Thanks--please keep those hints coming*

Fellers, thank you.

I feel that I have some time to get this figured out; she isn't gonna blow apart in the next few weeks or anything. At this point my hunch is the ball joints (which, thankfully, I could probably replace over some weekend at my leisure). But it could be that something rubber under there just needs spraying with water, thorough drying, a spritz of silicone & some tightening.

I do indeed have sway bars on the car; apparently you can get solid ones to stiffen the suspension, which is an option I may look at in years to come.

I've always enjoyed the way my car handles: the ride is firm & tight without being jolting. Gives me lots of control, and in general she corners better than any sub-$35k car I've ever driven--but out on the highway she is plenty smooth, too; I can take a long trip without getting weary. I continue to be very pleased with the value of this car.

Far as I can tell, the motor mounts are sound. This is definitely not a matter of the engine trying to bop loose on me. I hardly EVER really push this car; you can laugh, but the Isspro tach I'm about to install only goes to 6000rpm. I figure if I had that needle wrapped around I'd be hitting it too hard.

When I was back in high school, lots of guys had cars (mostly Trans Ams, GTOs, Mach 1s, Dusters, Camaros & Road Runners) with monster power. Lots of them blew smoke from worn rings & stuff, too. I was very, very impressed with this one dude (a mechanic's son) who had done all the work on his Camaro with his dad, managing to get a good 450hp or more out of that small block. Nobody wanted to run him; it was understood that you shouldn't try. He drove that car very conservatively, and once I asked him why he didn't race around all the time. "'Cause I want to keep it" was all he said to that.


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## Gump (Jan 30, 2003)

If and when you find out what that noise was, post it here and let me know what you find.


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Update on the "knuckle-pop"*

Well, here I am 4 months (and only about 1K) later, and the problem has gradually made itself more manifest. I'm about ready to jack her up & have a good look-see with the front wheels off the ground. Putting her up on my ramps (which keeps the front suspension compressed & taut) hasn't told me anything except that the CV boots look just fine.

I've been watching those boots carefully: no sign of any tears there. No vibrations at highway speed or any of that, no grinding or even slight ka-chunka-chunka under acceleration on the flats. In fact, it doesn't make any unusual noises at all at cruising speed.

I had a friend of mine who's a mechanical engineer (and a pretty decent mechanic, too) ride with me to check it out; we took the car to a big stadium parking lot so I could demonstrate, and what interested him much more than anything else was that when this noise (now a slight knock that you can feel with it, too) happens, it only happens once. That is, if I'm stopped & then roll out & cock the wheel left as if to make a left turn (as if I'd been at a stop sign & then turned left), she pops once & only once. He said "Sorry--I know it's your baby" but pressed me to keep the wheel hard over, almost as if I were trying to do donuts on the asphalt. But from a dead stop, always the same thing: one knock.

Last couple of days it's begun the one-knock-only on the right sometimes, too.

My friend didn't get to hear this, but occasionally at about 30 mph if I hit a gentle rise (not a bad-assed bump) it does the same thing. This seems to be a matter of a shift in the center of gravity (like around a turn from a standstill, or on such a rise) that makes it go bump. Thankfully it doesn't seem to stem from a driveline fault; the transmission of power to the wheels seems only to be a catalyst--not the culprit.

I hope. 

I drive the car to work every day, so I've been watching & listening pretty closely. I guess you could call what I've been doing a sort of progressive diagnostic: waiting until it was ready to tell me a bit more clearly.

I have a feeling that when I get those front wheels off the ground with no weight on them, I'll find something loose under there (like maybe the sway bar or its bushings, if it has bushings) & go: "Hey, dumbass--there's your problem."

Anyhow that's what I'm thinking. Until I get this bracketed & fixed, I'm still not going anywhere except on short trips.


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## johnand (Apr 30, 2002)

I have the SAME EXACT PROBLEM!

I just did an automatic to manual transmission swap, and just about replaced everything in the front end. Here is a list: 

1)All motor mounts and brackets are brand new except passenger mount. 
2)New ball joints 
3)New swaybar endlinks and ES bushings 
4)ES control arm bushings 
5)ES front dogbone mount 
6)New RAXLES axles 
7)New wheel bearings 
8)New crossmember bushings 
9)ES shifter bushing 
10)All motor mount replaced. 
11)Inner and outer tierods. 

Basically the only part of the front end that was not replaced was the struts. They are Monroe Sensa-trac's w/ about 50K on them. The strut hardware (mounts, insulators, etc.) are all the originals.

I reseated my springs and insulators, cause I thought the springs might be shifting. That didn't help. 

So, I have concluded that it is the strut thrust bearing. It is just plastic and and breaks easily.


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

"Strut thrust bearing": This conjures many other questions.

Okay: Where is that? I don't have a manual in front of me. Is it just like a polyethylene disc at the top or bottom of the strut tower?

Any way to see if it's broken without pulling everything apart? Are we talking major operation to replace it? (Gotta get a spring compressor & all that to avoid potential decapitation?) Does a broken/worn-out strut thrust bearing present a safety issue of any consequence, or is it just that annoying little knock? So far this has entailed neither alignment nor control problems.


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## johnand (Apr 30, 2002)

It sits between the upper spring seat and the strut mount on the strut assembly. Yes, you must dismantle the strut and spring assembly to replace. No real way to see it's shape other than dissassembling the strut and spring assembly. I don't think it is a safety issue, but I imagine if left unattended, the strut mount and upper spring seat would become damaged. I will probably tear into mine at the end of the month.


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## 89Sentra (Jul 2, 2002)

I'm having the same problem as you..

As soon as I hear it and go to listen for it again it never comes.

Let me know what you find out as I'm sure it'll be the same problem.


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## Daishi (Jul 31, 2002)

*Steering column or wheel well?*

Is the popping noise coming from inside the steering column or from the wheel well? My sentra makes a really quiet, but audible, tinking/popping noise inside the steering column somewhere when I straighten the wheel back out, but there is no sound from the wheel well. My problem isn't really bad, nor does it seem that it will become it, just annoying. Maybe it's the same thing, maybe not. Maybe it's normal for a sentra to make the noise in the column. I don't know, I just figured I would throw this out there since I had been meaning to ask about it for some time but kept forgetting since it hasn't been that big of a problem.


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Nope--not in the column itself*

My noise seems to come from down real low. Definitely NOT inside the passenger compartment. If I could extend my legs about 30 inches through the pedals & firewall, that would be where it seems to happen. About 8-10" off the pavement, in line with the wheel hubs but between them toward the left side, just about in line with the column. The column points down toward the source of the noise.


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## Mervic (May 1, 2002)

Check the lower control arm bolts. They might be loose. I had a popping noise a while ago andI could feet it too on the steering wheel every time I hit a bump or coming in the driveway. Careful inspection, I found out that one of the lower control arm bolt was loose. I thought it was a ball joint til I saw the problem.


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

Okay. I'll try that.

Should these be fairly obvious?

Are they elements that can cause catastrophic failure if ignored (wheels coming off/vehicle non-steerable)?

Will they just need to be snugged, or tightened & secured with cotter pins?

Thanks for the advice!


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Visible symptoms detected!*

Been driving the car (gently) for a good while now since this first developed, waiting for this "clunk" to become more insistent, and it's gotten very slightly worse. Still makes the noise on low-speed turns when the center of gravity shifts; still seems to be in a direct line with my legs, about 2.5' beyond the firewall; still will not complain when the car is moving in a straight line over smooth pavement.

So yesterday afternoon I had her up on the jackstands, lying on my back on a piece of cardboard, just kind of browsing around under there with my work gloves on, reaching up to grab various suspension and/or steering components to see if they'd wiggle around even a bit & maybe produce some sounds. No dice.

But I finally realized that I SHOULD have looked exactly where I thought the sound seemed to come from--beyond the firewall in a straight line with my legs--because intersecting another direct line down from the top of the strut tower, at the very bottom of the inner wheel (at about the same level where the tire bead sits), I spotted a squat rubber donut (a bushing?) about .25" high x 2" in diameter that is plainly shot: actually missing about one-third the way around, and I could rip the rest of it out of there with my bare fingers if I wanted. On top of this thing there's a washer around a hefty stud that points straight up & a fairly substantial bolt with a cotter pin securing it to the stud. Looks as though once upon a time the rubber donut was full of grease (not any more). This is plainly the lower pivot for the left front wheel when I turn the steering wheel.

Haynes manual identifies this as "left lower ball joint," and for my '92 it says you can't replace the ball joints themselves--just replace the whole control arm, with the ball joint fixed to its outer end. Now that's what I'm looking to do next weekend (big fun--but I am DELIGHTED that this turns out NOT to be a CV joint problem).

So I know what I'm doing in advance & don't have to go round up parts & assorted doodads after the vehicle is disabled in mid-fix, I have many questions, gentlemen:

1. Might as well go ahead & do both sides--right?

2. So I'll need both the right & left control arms, plus hefty cotter pins to replace the ones I pull out--right? Will I need to have any other parts and/or lubricants on hand before I start the disassembly?

3. If I've got "lower ball joints," are there some UPPER ball joints I need to worry about, too?

4. Is there any chance that this bad left lower ball joint is the result of something else in the front end that I might be overlooking?

5. The Haynes manual & Nissan shop manual seem to use slightly different terminology (those Haynes people are Brits, you know; maybe they invented the language, but they speak & write kinda funky English, if you ask me--plus as far as I know, Nissan is a Japanese brand). Specifically, these books seem to use the terms "control arm," "transverse link" and "transverse member" more or less interchangeably. Do the control arms sit nestled into the transverse members? Or are those parts one & the same?

6. It looks as though I can replace these lower control arms without compressing the springs on the strut towers. Is that right? (Man, I hope so.)

7. It also looks as if I can do this whole job without buying any new tools except for what the Haynes manual refers to as a "picklefork" (to pry the balljoint stud loose before I pull that mother down, undo a couple of other bolts & yank the whole thing free). Does this seem correct?

Many thanks & please wish me luck!


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## Mervic (May 1, 2002)

To answer your questions, to my knowledge;

1. Check the condition of the ball joint on other side. If you think it need to be replaced go ahead and do it too.

2. New control arms are not cheap, so when I did mine I bought just the ball joints (comes with a new nut and cotter pin),a press and did it myself. The ball joint is pressed in not welded or fixed. I dont remember needing any special lubricant maybe except "Liquid Wrench" or something similar.

3. No there are no upper ball joints.

4. Ball joints normally just wear out from daily driving for many years.

5. control arm = transverse link

6. You do not need to compress the spring to remove the control arm. Just remove the bolts holding the control arm and remove the endlink of the sway bar. You might have to remove the clamp holding to sway bar to the chassis to get it out easier.

7. Pretty much the ball joint separator or the picklefork is necessary to easily separate it from the knuckle. Only problems with these tools, it damages the grease boot which making it useless after. Since your putting a new one on, this should not be a concern. It is a good practice to get the right amount of torque on the bolts and nuts correct. It should be listed on your Haynes or Chilton manual the torque specs for the suspension parts. 

Oh yeah, I used air tools which made it easier for me to change mine. Hope this help you. Good luck!!!


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## BennittoMallito (May 20, 2002)

1) You can get aftermarket ball joints (MOOG comes to mind right away). Don't let the Nissan $tealership con you into buyint the whole thing. Just remember to use the pickle fork carefully. 
2/4) You may well still have worn out thrust bearings. That's what I thought your problem was the whole time I was reading this. 
6) You can do this without dissasembling the shock/spring combo.
2) Get some mobil universal grease it's my best friend.
1 again) You may as well do both.


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Thanks, fellers!*

I appreciate all the advice.

Naturally it spawns some new questions:

1. A press to remove/install ball joints in the control arm: how much money are we talking about for one of those? Is this press a really specialized piece of equipment (say, only good for that one operation) or one with wider utility? Alternatively, once I get the control arms (which I now know are also called transverse links) out from under there, might I be able to remove/install the joints with a simple bench vise?

2. So buying a press is still more cost-effective than simply replacing the control arms with ball joints pre-installed?

3. Whether I buy new arms or just the joints, will they come with proper amounts of grease already, or will I have to put that goo in there?

4. I've read mention of people getting new control arms at Pep Boys & being satisfied--but I've never spent any money at Pep Boys. They kinda strike me as a Wal-Mart of auto parts, in that it's a huge store with low prices but varying quality & many people who don't really have much idea what they're doing. I'd hate to get her up on jacks & have things pulled apart & realize "Gee--they sold me the wrong damn parts!"

5. Aside from the dealership (yessir, muy mucho dinero there), is there any other alternative source for these control arms besides Pep Boys? Auto Zone is big in this part of the country, and some of their stuff is fine.

6. These thrust washers: Where do I look for them in an exploded diagram? What exactly do they do? (I'm assuming preventing metal-metal contact in there someplace.) And if they've gone bad, will that require coil-spring compression?

I've never done any suspension work except changing the shock absorbers on a '79 Corolla (took a total of about 45 minutes start-finish), so this is slightly more involved. I wanna gather all the info that I can before proceeding.

Also, I've got the way-low-income-blues, so I have to take the cheapest approach that can get the job done right (not just the cheapest, period), plus I have to make this car last another good 10 years or longer.

Thanks again for all the advice!


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Running down some parts*

Based on the latest round of advice, I checked my local Auto Zone, and they sell the ball joints I need for 34 bucks each. Doesn't sound too bad.

The Zone's brand is "Perfect Circle." Anybody know about them?

The Zone will also loan me a ball joint tool & a press with some adaptors & 3 receiver tubes (whatever the hell those are--probably to rest the joint on while she's getting pressed?).

But I'm willing to buy Nissan joints if they represent a better product.


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## BennittoMallito (May 20, 2002)

Nissan Makes balljoints down here, but not sure you can get them in the states. 

I thought 'perfect circle' was the pet project of Tool's lead singer. 

Autozone is my favorite parts store in the states. I'd go that route. F*@% pep boys. 

Thrust bearings are in top of the shock/spring assmebly, they may have a different name. Down here they are called spherical bearings. 

If you got time rent the spring compressor from Autozone (also need impact gun), and give it basically the whole day, and a six pack. I'd also watch Football, but that's not gonna happen down here


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## Galimba1 (Aug 16, 2002)

*Re: Thanks, fellers!*



92 Sinatra said:


> *I appreciate all the advice.
> 
> Naturally it spawns some new questions:
> 
> ...


Since I recently tore my front end apart from my B12 and put it back together at a much more reasonable price than a mechanic's shop, here's my $0.02:

1. I went to a machine shop and had them press out/in new lower control arm ball joints for $20. No need to buy new control arms unless they are damaged.

2. No real need for a press. A DIY job requires a C-clip removal tool (?), a hammer, and a bearing sleeve whose ID fits over the diameter of the ball joint, but OD no bigger than the control arm surface to be supported. Once the C-clip on the ball joint is removed, place the control arm on the bearing sleeve, and hammer the ball joint out. Turn the control arm over, and then hammer the new ball joint in. Replace C-clip, and the job is done. Done right, about 1 hr. time. No need for a press, unless its cheaper than the tools I just mentioned.

3. New ball joints are generally in stock or available for order at any automotive parts store, and online. I paid like $12 each for mine.

4. Don't buy new control arms unless you 1) have to. . . see one above, or 2) have the money to throw away

not too sure about the other stuff though.


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

The new ball joint cost me $34 plus tax.

Borrowing the press from AutoZone costs a deposit of $100 + tax (fully refundable).

Would've been able to complete the job this past Saturday except that my scissors jack failed. . . .


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Progress to date*

Car is presently supported on jackstands out in the carport, as it has been since Saturday. That day I went ahead & changed the oil & filter, then soaked all the bolts & nuts on the suspension I knew I'd have to remove with penetrating oil. Even so, on Sunday it took some muscle (making the whole vehicle lurch on the jackstands, which I don't especially like--kinda gives me the willies) to loosen & extract all those bolts--including some big mamas from the pivots on the control arms that measure 22mm on the heads x about 13mm shaft dia x 105mm long. I consider those major bolts; obviously in driving the car, those pivots are subject to a helluva lot of force.

Thought I could save a little money (even though it's refundable) not renting the ball-joint tool & jimmy the control arms loose from the steering knuckles with a crowbar--and okay, using crow bars might be one way to do it--but there is definitely a reason that they make a specific tool for this purpose. Haynes calls it a picklefork; Auto Zone calls it a ball joint removal tool. The thing made it a snap (actually a big-time "whang! whang! whang!" with the hammer, as employment of this tool is much more similar to driving a chisel than working a lever) to free the control arms.

So the control arms are up in my apartment, waiting for me to get off work & clean them (kinda nasty with grease & road grime), press out the ball joints, then press in the new ones. I can do that while I'm watching television.

Before I'm done, I'll clean everything down there underneath the engine & look the rest of the stuff over. Just to see how it's all doing.

Not counting the refundable rental fee for the picklefork & ball joint press, my total investment has been $68 for the pair of new ball joints from Auto Zone (Perfect Circle is the manufacturer). Just for grins I called the Nissan dealership, and they quoted me a price of 903 DOLLARS (HOLY JESUS!) to do this.

Good news: the left joint is definitely completely shot. Just gone, man: it wiggles like a broken finger & I can feel the hunks of grit down in the socket. So I'm not doing this in vain. It's time. And while I'm at it, what the hey--I'm doing both sides.

You might laugh because I've had this work spread over several days, but I don't really care because I can walk to work in the meanwhile. This is taking me a long time mainly because I've never done it before. And I cannot say that it's exactly fun, but I know every single step of how the job is proceeding, there's nothing half-assed about it & nobody is cutting any corners (as you might encounter, even at a decent garage)--plus the person working on the car has a commitment to making it last another 70,000 miles & 10-11 years.

903 BUCKS! WOW! That's more than 13 times as much as what I'm paying.


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## johnand (Apr 30, 2002)

Keep me posted. I still have my "pop". I have the new struts and strut harware (Most importantly the thrust bearing, which is what I think is my problem) waiting for me to install.


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

I'm almost certain this is the source of the "pop." As loose as that left joint is (I mean, just way floppy, bro) I probably wouldn't have gotten too many more miles out of it*. And the way that pieces of grit grind around in there as I move the spindle of the bearing (because much of the rubber boot is shorn away, leaving the top of it open), I can definitely see how if you put a good lateral force on it (such as that in turning the car) it would translate into exactly the sort of sound I've been hearing (and feeling).

Still cannot get over that $903.  Staggering! I thought it was expensive when I found out I could replace both control arms (complete with ball joints) for $205 plus tax.

*BTW: What happens when a ball joint fails? Catastrophic consequences?


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## johnand (Apr 30, 2002)

Ya, my ball joints were competely shot at 160K. They both had almost 1/8" of play up and down, were floppy as hell, and had the same gritty feel to them as well. It fixed the clunking I was getting on washboard roads, but I still have the pop.

Yes, I hear you about the labor to replace them. That is one of the reasons why I refuse to let anyone work on my car.


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## HATEnFATE (Dec 24, 2002)

92 Sinatra said:


> *
> *BTW: What happens when a ball joint fails? Catastrophic consequences? *


It can be-----Thats what holds the lower arm to the knuckle..if that separates...It's gonna be all bad...always good to stay on top of something like that....


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## LexKyB13 (May 1, 2002)

*knocking*

mine's doing the same thing and i've replaced EVERYTHING in the front suspension, every bushing, joint, and whatnot has been replaced with either es bushings or quality parts and the noise is still there. but then again, my noise is slightly different. mine does it over the smallest of bumps and it comes from both sides. there is nothing loose, broken, or binding under there. not even our master tech at work can figure it out. just one of those things. its been the same for about a year now, doesn't go away yet doesn't get worse. i dunno.


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Bit by bit*

Did I mention that this job is not a whole lot of fun?

But that's okay--if I only have to do it once every 11 years, I feel that I'm still ahead of the game. Especially not having to spend the 900 bucks. (Wish that meant I had the difference of $865 + tax in my pocket!)

Those control arms are nasty grimy, man. No way around it. Heavy, too. If you're gonna attempt this, you'll definitely be best served with a nice broad workbench, a big-mama vise, and maybe a set of impact wrenches. I have none of that stuff--so it's become a hassle and a half.

Oh, well.

The ball joint press I rented from Auto Zone doesn't work right for extracting the old joints, because not one of the three receiving tubes is the correct size to mate with the underside of the control arms from my car. The steel on those arms is curled over downward for strength & rigidity just enough that that the closest fit on the receiving tube (the medium-size one) cocks sideways into a groove when you tighten the press. There's no way to prevent this. So you end up pushing the ball joint stud at an angle, rather than axially--which is bad mojo, oh my brothers, because it's critical to keep the press/joint/arm/tube assembly aligned so that you can back the joint out nice & straight; you get the thing cockeyed (which is how it wants to go--you cannot prevent it) and you're gonna wish you hadn't messed with it.

Looks as if I'll have to go down to Sears & get about a 53mm (outside diameter) socket to substitute for one of the three supplied receiving tubes. I hope that that works okay. If not, I'll have to back the joint out a fraction of a millimeter or so at a time, breaking down the assembly & re-tightening it so as to goose it just a bit from this side, then a bit from the side diametrically opposite. Which could take a while and again, would not be fun.

Well, not much fun.

I'm allergic to the hammer-and-brute-force method.

I *think* (meaning I hope) that this delightful little completely unexpected quirk will not come into play when it's time to press in the replacement joints. Hell--if it does, I'll probably just curse a long time, maybe cry, go burn down a few houses to get all the frustration out of my system, then devise another approach & get back to work. What else could I do?


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Another baby step*

The socket I bought to use as a receiver for the pressed-out ball joint is actually a 1 11/16" 3/4"-drive job. Unless I go into bridge-building, shipbuilding or ironwork, I seriously doubt I'll ever tackle a nut or a bolt big enough to use that socket as it was intended.

But I think it's gonna work. If I don't mar its polished finish, I'll return it to Sears & get my $17 back.

If it doesn't work, I'll lug the control arms to a friendly nearby mechanic's shop & let them do the pressing.


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## HATEnFATE (Dec 24, 2002)

I know what will make you feel better----find a honda ummm....something--and beat it on the track....always raises a spirit or two


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Possible help*

I talked with some guys at a shop I trust, and if I lug the control arms down there, they'll press out/press in the old/new joints for $33 ($66 if they have to put a torch on it to get the damned thngs to move). Then I can just bolt the suckers back in & hope my alignment is kosher.

Sounds to me like money well spent. I'm not enjoying this phase of the project. Already tore a muscle in my back freeing one bolt. . . .


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## helicopterman (Nov 1, 2003)

hello, ive had the same problem with my car, well it sounds the same anyways. and i talked to my brother who is a mechanic and he said its some type of axel part and he went on to say thats its ot too big of a deal to replace cus the parts are fairly cheap. but yeah im just starting to get into cars so i dont know much at the moment but i figured id let you guys know just incase it might help out some.


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## Galimba1 (Aug 16, 2002)

Good lord, seems this press project turned out to be more of a hassle than learning experience. fortunately, the mechanics won't need to torch the control arms to pop out the ball joint. Then again, popping out my ball joint seemed a lot easier than this.


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Victory!*

There's one part of a job that I like very well: after all the effort, having a chance to sorta halfway clean all the grimy-assed parts that came off, washing & soaking all the rubber pads & stuff with Armor-All, finally torquing all the bolts just right, giving her the once-over just to make absolutely sure, then getting it all buttoned up, easing her down off the ramps, putting the tools away, taking a shower. . .and then a nice long test drive.

Maybe no one else would've noticed. but as the sole driver of this car, this makes a BIG difference to me. Without being jarring, the steering feels crisp, quiet & precise again. It is righteous. There was not much play in the left ball joint (the one that was much farther gone, with little remaining of the rubber grease boot), but when I wiggled the stud there was almost no resistance & I could feel hunks of road grime and/or metal shavings from the rim of the cup in there.

I expected that after all this drama, I'd probably need to get the front end re-aligned, but if the car does anything besides track straight & true, I sure can't tell. Feels great.

So let's review the true cost, comparing it to the Nissan dealership's quote on this job:
1. Car out of action a week (I could easily do this in an afternoon if I had to try again);
2. $75.75 for a pair of new ball joints, including the joints, circlips, nuts & cotter pins;
3. $33.00 labor for a shop to press out the old joints & press in the new ones;
4. Total $108.75 parts & labor;
5. Torn and/or strained muscles in right pectoral & right scapular area (kinda sore but healing just fine, thanks, with Advil & moderate alcohol therapy).

Still saved $794.25 doing it myself. Going the dealership route (for $903, they owe you at least having your signature custom-engraved on the control arms, don't they?) would've cost me 730% of what I paid. So I'm satisfied.

This car has been extremely reliable. I'd love to get another 11 years & 72K of service from her. At the conclusion of this operation I also have a much better idea of how all those beefy shafts & bars & what-not under the front end fit together & what they do. So this is good.

I hope all this will be helpful for anyone in a similar situation who cannot just get Daddy to buy them a new car or afford to take it to the dealership & say "Give it the works." I'll be glad to engage in any further bantering on this subject, although I cannot claim to be an expert. But (at least in this one limited case) this pretty well documents the entire problem from its initial symptoms all the way through satisfactory remedy, and unless anybody has any further comments and/or questions, I consider the matter closed.


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Mostly more self-congratulations*

I realized that since the ball joint stud goes up into the steering knuckle (and as you tighten the nut atop the stud, the knuckle is what causes the dust boot to collapse/compress to its operational donut shape), calling this a knuckle-pop way back before I knew what it actually was came much closer than I had imagined.

For any real alignment geeks out there who can answer this question: My car seems to track straight & true. At highway speed, I take my hands off the wheel & it will barely drift except to follow the crowning of the pavement (which allows water to drain in a rainstorm). Now, if I had screwed up the alignment (and I expected that I would), then I'd feel it--right? The car would want to move either right or left, but not straight ahead--right?


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## johnand (Apr 30, 2002)

92 Sinatra said:


> I realized that since the ball joint stud goes up into the steering knuckle (and as you tighten the nut atop the stud, the knuckle is what causes the dust boot to collapse/compress to its operational donut shape), calling this a knuckle-pop way back before I knew what it actually was came much closer than I had imagined.
> 
> For any real alignment geeks out there who can answer this question: My car seems to track straight & true. At highway speed, I take my hands off the wheel & it will barely drift except to follow the crowning of the pavement (which allows water to drain in a rainstorm). Now, if I had screwed up the alignment (and I expected that I would), then I'd feel it--right? The car would want to move either right or left, but not straight ahead--right?


Just cause it tracks straight and true, doesn't mean it won't wear the tires out if not aligned properly. 

My question to you is this: Did you remove the strut to knuckle bolts when changing the ball joints? If so, then I would get your alignment checked. Removing those bolt almost always affects camber and will also effect toe, but to a lesser effect. Toe is the most likely to cause wear problems on you tires, but camber can as well.

If you didn't remove those bolts, then you are probably OK, but even removing the control arm to subframe bolts can effect alignment, but probably not enough to worry about.

When I did my ball joints and wheel bearings I bought a 12 ton press and a ball joint tool set. They both paid for themselves in making those jobs very undramatic 

Glad to see all is well now :cheers: I assume your poping is gone?


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

Yessir--that popping is all gone.

I guess having the alignment checked would be a sensible precaution. I've got pretty decent Yokohama tires at all four corners & I'd prefer to get several dozen thousands of miles out of 'em. (Or at least have some trade-in value at Discount Tires, if I ever buy some cool wheels & do the big brake upgrade installation--but any & all of that is way down the road: poor man's blues.  )

In removing the control arms, I didn't jack around with the strut-to-knuckle connection at all. Just pulled the ball joint studs down out of the underside of the knuckles.

12 ton press? Man, that sounds like some pretty serious hardware!


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

*Long-term follow-up*

This experience has given me a much better idea what's happening under the front end of my car when I drive around. That's good. It's much less mysterious than before.

Given what I've learned, if I had this to do over, I'd probably opt to replace the complete control arms with pre-pressed ball joints in them. Only about a hundred bucks' difference--which is a lot of money to me, but not too bad considering it only has to be done about once every 70,000 miles. (Which ought to show you how gently I usually drive my car.)

Something else that has cropped up: On the driver's side (where the old ball joint was really worn & screwed up, with the boot torn & hunks of grit in there & some shiny metal ground around the cup), lately I've noticed some looseness & woodling around (kinda like some kid kicking under the table). So I put her up on ramps, and the left sway bar bushings are about shot. Time to swap those out.

I'm gonna order a polyurethane replacement set from Energy Suspension ($157--which is almost 50 bucks more than I paid for the whole ball joint operation--but oh well--I might as well do it right). This includes new bushings for both front & rear (& will give me a chance to look over the rear suspension), which I believe represents a good value. The polyurethane is supposed to be much more durable than rubber, as well as yielding a slighty stiffer ride and tighter handling.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

92 Sinatra said:


> I thought it was expensive when I found out I could replace both control arms (complete with ball joints) for $205 plus tax.


Sinatra, I have been searching for almost an hour. I was hoping to find a link to the B13 lower control arms. Where can you get them for that price?
Thanks.


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## 92 Sinatra (Jul 9, 2002)

blownb310 said:


> Sinatra, I have been searching for almost an hour. I was hoping to find a link to the B13 lower control arms. Where can you get them for that price?
> Thanks.


Howdy, Blown--

This was over a year ago, and the price on the arms with pre-pressed ball joints was from a local parts shop. To the best of my recollection, they said that the manufacturer was Beck-Arnley.

The price for left & right components is different. Just a few bucks, but I'm not sure why.

I ran a quick search & here are a couple of online hits for these parts for my car, with the total for the pair about $260 + shipping. You may be able to find them cheaper. Try a Google search specifying your exact car and "lower control arm" or just "control arm" under "suspension."

I haven't worked with any of these distributors, so I cannot vouch for them--but this ought to give you a basic idea.

Good luck!

http://www2.autopartsauthority.com/...ication=000650804&part=Control Arm&category=L

http://www2.autopartsauthority.com/...ication=000650805&part=Control Arm&category=L

http://search.carpartsteam.com/part...ntrol Arm&category=L&make=NI&model=SEN-2D-002

http://search.carpartsteam.com/part...ntrol Arm&category=L&make=NI&model=SEN-2D-002


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

92 Sinatra said:


> Howdy, Blown--
> I ran a quick search & here are a couple of online hits for these parts for my car, with the total for the pair about $260 + shipping. You may be able to find them cheaper. Try a Google search specifying your exact car and "lower control arm" or just "control arm" under "suspension."


Thanks for the reply and for the links, Sinatra.  I appreciate it!


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