# Rough Idle when Stopped!



## stumpac (Jul 12, 2006)

Our new, 2006 X Trail exhibits a disturbing vibration at idle when we are stopped at lights etc. --- feels a bit like it is about to stall, but revs are up around 800 rpm and it accelerates smoothly and runs well at all speeds. Nissan says this is "normal", but having driven lots of four cyl. vehicles in my day, this does not compute! Any similar experiences or advice???


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## Rockford (Jan 28, 2005)

Aurora?! 
Nice, I'm Newmarket.
If you have an Automatic, ya it's normal (for the X-Trail at least). 
Next time, try putting it in neutral (or park) at a light and you'll probably notice it goes away. I've never noticed it to be that bad - certainly doesn't feel like it's about to stall out to me. It is noticable and slightly annoying for me though.
Where'd you buy, Doner?


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## stumpac (Jul 12, 2006)

Rockford said:


> Aurora?!
> Nice, I'm Newmarket.
> If you have an Automatic, ya it's normal (for the X-Trail at least).
> Next time, try putting it in neutral (or park) at a light and you'll probably notice it goes away. I've never noticed it to be that bad - certainly doesn't feel like it's about to stall out to me. It is noticable and slightly annoying for me though.
> Where'd you buy, Doner?


HI - thanks for the comments - the vibration is indeed annoying, but it is getting a bit better as it breaks in -- we did get the truck at Doner, and only mildly impressed - service people seem to know their stuff and are very cooperative mind you, so we are basically pleased. We love the XTRAIL however, and my wife loves the visibility that it provides - we drove the CX7 and i liked the power, but visibility is not good.


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## XTrail1 (Feb 24, 2005)

Are you running the AC when you notice this? Also the cooling fan comes on at a stop. These 2 things will put a load on the engine, I've noticed this with most cars.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Stuart, this will go away and reduce greatly when you fit the K&N filter  Go for it mate.


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## SmallSteps (May 3, 2006)

Beg to differ Jalal - put in the K&Ns and it will not go away. But do install the K&Ns. Good value for money.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

SmallSteps said:


> Beg to differ Jalal - put in the K&Ns and it will not go away. But do install the K&Ns. Good value for money.


Not sure about the effect on your exy Ken, but since installing the K&N in mine over 2 years ago now, my idle has been very smooth at the lights and in gear. Not to mention the other benefits of this filter which nearly every xtrailer has already experienced.

It also means that the ECU of Stuart's xtrail may need to be re-adjusted as the idle speed may not be set correctly from the factory.

The K&N is not a mgic stick, but it will do the trick


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

stumpac said:


> Our new, 2006 X Trail exhibits a disturbing vibration at idle when we are stopped at lights etc. --- feels a bit like it is about to stall, but revs are up around 800 rpm and it accelerates smoothly and runs well at all speeds. Nissan says this is "normal", but having driven lots of four cyl. vehicles in my day, this does not compute! Any similar experiences or advice???


Hi Stumpac,

When you say "Nissan says its normal" did you go to the dealer or were you on the phone?

If you were at the dealer, they should have at least examined the basics and performed these three basic procedures:

1- accelerator pedal release position learning
2- throttle valve closed position learning
3- idle air volume learning

The good thing is you can do them yourself as described below (extract from ESM)
(use a stop watch when counting seconds)


(1)
Accelerator Pedal Released Position Learning
DESCRIPTION
Accelerator Pedal Released Position Learning is an operation to learn the fully released position of the accelerator pedal by monitoring the accelerator pedal position sensor output signal. It must be performed each time harness connector of accelerator pedal position sensor or ECM is disconnected.
OPERATION PROCEDURE
1. Make sure that accelerator pedal is fully released.
2. Turn ignition switch ON and wait at least 2 seconds.
3. Turn ignition switch OFF and wait at least 10 seconds.
4. Turn ignition switch ON and wait at least 2 seconds.
5. Turn ignition switch OFF and wait at least 10 seconds.

(2)
Throttle Valve Closed Position Learning
DESCRIPTION
Throttle Valve Closed Position Learning is an operation to learn the fully closed position of the throttle valve by monitoring the throttle position sensor output signal. It must be performed each time harness connector of electric throttle control actuator or ECM is disconnected.
OPERATION PROCEDURE
1. Make sure that accelerator pedal is fully released.
2. Turn ignition switch ON.
3. Turn ignition switch OFF and wait at least 10 seconds.
Make sure that throttle valve moves during above 10 seconds by confirming the operating sound.


(3)
Idle Air Volume Learning
DESCRIPTION
Idle Air Volume Learning is an operation to learn the idle air volume that keeps each engine within the specific
range. It must be performed under any of the following conditions:
_ Each time electric throttle control actuator or ECM is replaced.
_ Idle speed or ignition timing is out of specification.
PREPARATION
Before performing Idle Air Volume Learning, make sure that all of the following conditions are satisfied.
Learning will be cancelled if any of the following conditions are missed for even a moment.
_ Battery voltage: More than 12.9V (At idle)
_ Engine coolant temperature: 70 - 95C (158 - 203F)
_ PNP switch: ON
_ Electric load switch: OFF
(Air conditioner, headlamp, rear window defogger)
On vehicles equipped with daytime light systems, set lighting switch to the 1st position to light only small lamps.
_ Steering wheel: Neutral (Straight-ahead position)
_ Vehicle speed: Stopped
_ Transmission: Warmed-up
OPERATION PROCEDURE
NOTE:
_ It is better to count the time accurately with a clock.
_ It is impossible to switch the diagnostic mode when an accelerator pedal position sensor circuit
has a malfunction.
1. Perform "Accelerator Pedal Released Position Learning" .
2. Perform "Throttle Valve Closed Position Learning" .
3. Start engine and warm it up to normal operating temperature.
4. Check that all items listed under the topic PREPARATION (previously mentioned) are in good order.
5. Turn ignition switch OFF and wait at least 10 seconds.
6. Confirm that accelerator pedal is fully released, turn ignition switch ON and wait 3 seconds.
7. Repeat the following procedure quickly 5 times within 5 seconds.
a. Fully depress the accelerator pedal.
b. Fully release the accelerator pedal.
8. Wait 7 seconds, fully depress the accelerator pedal and keep it for approx. 20 seconds until the MI stops
blinking and turned ON.
9. Fully release the accelerator pedal within 3 seconds after the MI turned ON.
10. Start engine and let it idle.
11. Wait 20 seconds. (Idle Air Volume Learning starts)
12. Rev up the engine two or three times and make sure that idle speed and ignition timing are within the specifications. (700rpm +- 50rpm)



One other possible alternative is a problem with the crank shaft position sensor (mind you that recall problem was dealt with a number of years ago...)


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## stumpac (Jul 12, 2006)

wow -- thanks to you all for the advice - i will have to take some time to absorb!! I think i will go for the KN filter, as it has other benefits as Jalal says - and i'll let you know if it makes a difference in the short term! Thanks to all - and any other ideas on this.

Stuart


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## stumpac (Jul 12, 2006)

Hi - yes, the aircon is running and the vibration reduces some when it's off - but it's still there - vibration eases a bit when we put it in neutral as well, but the vibration is still there.


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## SmallSteps (May 3, 2006)

Was up in the Hill Resorts over the weekend. Average day temp 20 -22 deg C. The lowland temp averages 32 deg C.

Noticed irratic idle when I was up there.

1. Drove car around and parked car.
2. 15 minutes later started car.
3. Foot off accelerator, cranked engine. Kicks to life immediately, hits 1200 rpm, then dips to 550 (or so), and stabalises at 750 or so.
4. Happened a few times.

5. Came to a stop (driving sedately), rpm dips to 550 (or so) then stabilises to 750. No air-con, stereo or any other electical equipment turned on.
6. Happened a few times.

Came back down to the lowlands - problem disappeared.

BTW, did not have this problem the last 2 times I was up in the highlands. Difference was I had the OEM stock exhaust system then.


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## stumpac (Jul 12, 2006)

Thanks for the input all -- have been to the dealer twice now, with the service manager coming into it this time -- did the idle learning thing and so on, and declared once more that all is "normal" - disappointing, as my four cyl honda is as smooth as silk all the time! Oh well - it seems to have improved slightly as we run it in, but nonetheless, i'm not pleased with the 2.5 engine in this respect -- still, it runs nicely at speed, and is reasonably quiet on the highway -- we will live with it i suppose!!


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## SCHESBH (May 25, 2004)

*Vibration*

I had theslight vibration for a while.. it was not annoying but over the past month before my 36k service call... one of my belts was making a noise. After the service call they told me that they changes one of the belts... (I do not know which one) at no charge and now my slight vibration when stopped is gone! I can hardly hear the car now.

Stephen





stumpac said:


> Thanks for the input all -- have been to the dealer twice now, with the service manager coming into it this time -- did the idle learning thing and so on, and declared once more that all is "normal" - disappointing, as my four cyl honda is as smooth as silk all the time! Oh well - it seems to have improved slightly as we run it in, but nonetheless, i'm not pleased with the 2.5 engine in this respect -- still, it runs nicely at speed, and is reasonably quiet on the highway -- we will live with it i suppose!!


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## XTrail1 (Feb 24, 2005)

stumpac said:


> Thanks for the input all -- have been to the dealer twice now, with the service manager coming into it this time -- did the idle learning thing and so on, and declared once more that all is "normal" - disappointing, as my four cyl honda is as smooth as silk all the time! Oh well - it seems to have improved slightly as we run it in, but nonetheless, i'm not pleased with the 2.5 engine in this respect -- still, it runs nicely at speed, and is reasonably quiet on the highway -- we will live with it i suppose!!


Not all companies have the same characteristics or traits, comparing your 2.5 to others is not really fair. My Ford Focus always had this little miss in it, yet my dealer and other people felt this was one of smoothest 2.0L Focus they had seen. I drive many other brands regularly and coming back to my X-Trail is always nice. I'm a firm believer the way fuel is managed has an impact on idle characteristics, also the brand of fuel seem to make a difference, I always found Petro-Canada and Sunoco to give nice results.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

stumpac said:


> Our new, 2006 X Trail exhibits a disturbing vibration at idle when we are stopped at lights etc. --- feels a bit like it is about to stall, but revs are up around 800 rpm and it accelerates smoothly and runs well at all speeds. Nissan says this is "normal", but having driven lots of four cyl. vehicles in my day, this does not compute! Any similar experiences or advice???



Based on Jalal's post that a CAI solves the problem of rough idling in gear, I tried conducting a crude experiment to see if Resonance could be the cause of the rough idle.

The X-trail's intake airbox has 3 Helmholtz resonators: one small one near the opening, a large one just before the airfilter box itself and a third small one at the left hand side of the airfilter box. To this third one I stuffed a piece of low density polyethylene foam in the circular opening.

The car seems to idle slightly better now, or at least the harsh edge seems to have been taken off the idle.

Next, I'll try blocking off the largest Helmholtz resonator to see if there is further improvement...

I do not know if what I've done will effect the sound drive-by levels or torque anywhere in the rev band, but I'll post another update soon.


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## stumpac (Jul 12, 2006)

Please let us know how it works out - i have been notified by KN filters that they now "certify" one of their units for service in the X Trail - i am not sure if one of those would make a difference - but your approach sounds interesting. Our X Trail has "mellowed" some in 6000 km - but when the air is on, it is still a dog at idle, despite what the Nissan folks say - they're basically in official denial i fear.


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## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

stumpac said:


> Please let us know how it works out - i have been notified by KN filters that they now "certify" one of their units for service in the X Trail - i am not sure if one of those would make a difference - but your approach sounds interesting. Our X Trail has "mellowed" some in 6000 km - but when the air is on, it is still a dog at idle, despite what the Nissan folks say - they're basically in official denial i fear.



Okay, an update:

Mod 1: so I blocked off the small helmholtz resonator at the airfilter box with a piece of low density PE foam and the vibration at idle seemed to improve a smidgen.

Mod 2: I did the same thing with the largest resonator and no positive results were apparent, so I removed it.

Have been driving with Mod 1 for about half a tank now and I noticed a slight vibration at 1400-1500 rpm in overdrive that is causing the dashboard to rattle. Wasn't there before I sealed off the small resonator.

Next, I am fitting an oil catch can between the PCV valve and intake manifold. Will see if this makes any difference.


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## bwauro (Sep 4, 2017)

*hi*

my x-trail have start problem. if it stay parking at night and early in the morning it can't start the engine smoothly. its need to hold on the key to start in a few second maybe a minute or two. after that when it start there is no problem, turn off and turn on it start perfectly. that happens only when parking long period. I'm worried if it getting worse if anyone have seen this already pls....


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Bwauro,
Not sure why you put your question into an 11 year old thread, but anyway you may want to have your battery tested as well as the alternator. What do you mean by parked for long periods??? If so my guess is your battery is draining a bit from being left sitting. You may want to investigate why, but it may also be normal. You do not mention how old your X trail is, but maybe your starter is starting to go? You may also want to check your battery terminal connections and wires for corrosion and try and clean them up. Good luck with it.


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