# help! car shakes/bogs so bad it can hardly drive!



## Solidox2k (Jan 21, 2004)

I'm driving a 93' sentra xe, manual tranny

A while back, early this year, i had a few problems similar to this. the car would bog, shake a little, and i'd lose power....STP fuel+injector stuff was put in, seemed to work, cause it quit doing it.

now, many months later.... i notice im low on fuel going somewhere....had to be on time, stopped at nearest gas station. filled up with Cheveron w/Techron stuff, 5gal. got there just fine, 2hrs later, i get in to leave....and the car is shaking and bogging, but still running. real hard to get up to 60mph. BAD loss of power, incomparable to the early year problem.

suddenly it works fine after getting home. so i figure, oh well. oh no. it did it again the next day, parked a while, then was fine. start it again, ran bad, parked for a while, then ran good....went on like this for a few days.... i figured i just got 'bad gas'....so i filled up somewhere else (cheveron w/techron again, coincidently). problem when away....for 1.5 days.

went on like this for a few more days, and i figured "ok, 'chevron gas+my nissan = bad'". so i drive and waste the gas for a while so i can fill up at my normal gas station....didn't get that far. i left earlier today and it was still bogging. before i came back, i let it sit and bog for 10min, and it settled out and ran fine. that technique worked twice. i get back, and 30min later i leave to a friend's place.

this time it was REALLY bad. the car shook and bogged so hard i swore it was having a seizure. it wouldn't start normally, i had to give it WOT to start and even then it slooowwly bogged real hard until i could rev it to i guess would be ~2k rpm (no tach). i tried driving it, which was a feat in itself. it would die anytime it stopped moving, had to keep within a min. of 2.5k rpm just to MOVE. it still shook and bogged 35-40mph in 3rd. it was a short trip to where i was going, so i continued, and checked a couple of things there. i had to WOT and fight with clutch/throttle ratio just to get to 30mph. i found out keeping it revved on hills at stops was a bit of a challenge (everything is a hill 'round here).

got to friend's place. there was a stench of something similar to that of something recently incinerated. probably from my having to keep high revs and only accelerated slowly.

spark plugs looked fine.
fuel filter didn't seem to be very clogged (though not sure)
i dont think an o2 sensor screwup would do something this bad.
it does this in nuetral and any gear. also with clutch in (disengaged)

i decided to try and get home. same bogging as before, but mid-way it 'surged' forward suddenly and then.....was FINE the rest the way home. im sure it wont be if i try to start it again.

im completely lost on this. my poor sentra is having strokes.... a few ppl tell me it could be in the fuel system.... the pump most likely. im almost outa gas now (curse that techron...not sure if its it, but its something to blame). im wondering if i should try replacing some stuff (plugs and filter) or try filling up with my normal gas (and adding STP stuff).

i was advised to take the hose off the filter that feeds to the gastank and lay that in a coffee can, start it, and see if there's enough fuel comin' out (to check fuel pump), since i dont have a fuel pressure gauge

.... also there's this one hose near the filter, that doesn't plug into anything, but i remember it having suction when i put my finger to it when the car ran normally.... no suction now. also there's another loose hose near there and a small outlet w/o a hose on it somewhere behind/on the end of an assembly that seems to connect to the air filter.... i could provide pics if needed...

sorry for the long-winded post, just wanted to give as much info as i could.

any ideas people? im desperate...........please?  
this is my only car and i havn't the money for expensive repairs.
it's been fine up till now


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## '85 fairlady (May 1, 2004)

try your maf or your air flow meter(I don't know which one you have) we had a prob similar to this with my bro minuterice.


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## Solidox2k (Jan 21, 2004)

tested the MAF, according to haynes manual... checked out fine... could bad gas end up doing something like this to my car? im going to replace the fuel filter anyway (rather inexpensive).

im thinking of filling up with a few gal. of my regular gas, since this tank's almost empty.... i want to test the fuel pump, but the haynes manual lists two methods of doing it, im not sure which one is right. one has me use a fuel gauge, and another has me test the voltages on the 'fuel sending unit' that's mounted on the tank, near the back seat...... is the pump connected to the tank, or is it in the engine bay somewhere?


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## Exalta (Jan 21, 2003)

By the way, what octane gas did you put in?


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## Solidox2k (Jan 21, 2004)

86....88.... don't remember which one exactly... it was the lowest one. it seems to differ across different gas stations.... some have the lowest at 88, some, 86.

i usually use 86 or 88 anyway.

it's running fine right now, but i know if i go anywhere and start her back up, she'll buckle and choke again. seems to run&idle fine after sitting level for some time (like overnight). but then again this isn't always consistent.


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## jazzzman31 (Aug 18, 2004)

*bad gas*

My car did the same thing after my girlfriend ran it out of gas. My conclusion was that the fuel tank was full of shit. I ended up running the shit out of my car until it cleared up (about two weeks). I don't recommend doing this though, it is hard on the engine. Underneath the rear seat is an access hole to the fuel tank sender. Pull it out and take a fuel sample from the bottom of the tank. My guess is that there is water in there. Good luck.


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

This sounds like the symptoms caused by a plugged fuel filter.

Lew


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## Solidox2k (Jan 21, 2004)

jazzzman31 said:


> My conclusion was that the fuel tank was full of shit.





> Underneath the rear seat is an access hole to the fuel tank sender. Pull it out and take a fuel sample from the bottom of the tank. My guess is that there is water in there. Good luck.


Funny, someone else told me that i might have water in there, i'll do that, the water would rest at the bottom of my sample(heavier than gas), right?
I've wanted to somehow clean the tank for a while, it's a 160k+ car, i can only imagine the crud that might be in there.



lshadoff said:


> This sounds like the symptoms caused by a plugged fuel filter.


i pulled it off in the midst of this and checked it... the gas that came out didn't seem to be too dark or anything...and there was only a small amnt of debris (mostly looking like dirt, very little of it).... of course now i heard you're supposed to let it dry then see if crud comes out, or pour it out a specific end.... i wonder if i checked it right?

all i did was empty it into a clear bottle and blow on one end to clear out any additional crud....was only a small bit of restriction when i tried blowing it....what i'd expect blowing through a filter.

EDIT: Fuel Tank Sender and Fuel Pump....what's the difference? Are they the same thing or is the pump something different located somewhere else?


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

Sending unit is for the fuel gauge. Mine had to be replaced. Fuel pump sends fuel to the engine. Still have the original. They are together were the fuel pump goes into the tank.


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

Sounds like some of the syptoms when I had a bad injector. I was running on 3 cylinders. Ran rough and had a loss of power. Had injector replaced. The replacement started doing the same thing. Both times it was after using fuel injector cleaner. I wonder if crud from the tank or fuel filter broke free and clogged the injector. Happened another time. I just took it on the highway, floored it, and went to my parents 75 miles away. No problems since. Seems like highway driving/flooring it makes idle smoother. I also changed fuel filter 2 times in one year. Much easier and cheaper than replacing an injector or fuel pump. I have 168,544 or my Sentra.


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## Solidox2k (Jan 21, 2004)

Catman said:


> Sounds like some of the syptoms when I had a bad injector. I was running on 3 cylinders. Ran rough and had a loss of power. Had injector replaced. The replacement started doing the same thing. Both times it was after using fuel injector cleaner. I wonder if crud from the tank or fuel filter broke free and clogged the injector. Happened another time. I just took it on the highway, floored it, and went to my parents 75 miles away. No problems since. Seems like highway driving/flooring it makes idle smoother. I also changed fuel filter 2 times in one year. Much easier and cheaper than replacing an injector or fuel pump. I have 168,544 or my Sentra.


i'll be sure to check the injector (amazing i haven't *done* anything yet. thats what i get for having halo and being lazy, im gonna try getting to it tonight).

supposedly if you drive your car in-city alot, a trip every now and then on the highway is good for it. my uncle used to tell me that all the time, seemed to work out w/my previous car.

thanx for the suggestions guys, i'll try to get on it tonight. i'll post back if anything changes.


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## XxBlackSentraxX (Nov 13, 2003)

that is crazy. My car started doing the exact same thin today. I was driving on the highway back down to my college, and all of a sudden it started to sputter, lose power, start knocking in the front, up until i got ot a certain speed, and when it was in idle it started fluctuating. I hope that is the problem with it. My sentra has 167,500 on it, so it is getting up there. I hope thats the issue.


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## Solidox2k (Jan 21, 2004)

well, maybe Fairlady was right. i got in to start testing it, made all this fuss about it on here.... and it may have just been the MAF connector. 

it's running fine. i discovered the MAF connector was loose, if i pushed in on it harder the car revved just fine (had to prop the accelerator down with a stick to keep it running at first), if i let go, it shook and bogged. for now i crimped the connectors in a bit for a tighter fit...seemed to do the job. im gonna try and replace it with one from a junkyard if i can. still gonna keep an eye on it though, just in case.

curious. haynes manual wanted me to backprobe it and watch the voltage drop fluctuations. said to replace the MAF if the voltage didnt fluctuate. said to rev it and watch the multimeter. since i had it propped at a constant rpm, all i know is the voltaged increased. haynes said 1.1-1.7vdc on 91-92' models, and .7-1.1vdc on 93-94' models. mine reported 1.58 and it's a 93'. but it runs fine now, the haynes manual didnt say how high to rev it, and i had it at about 2500-3000rpm steady, so i guess the MAF is fine :/


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## Solidox2k (Jan 21, 2004)

*if its not one thing, its another....*

thnx to Twiz, i was able to test the MAF correctly....tested fine. and thanx to Catman's post on cleaning the AACV (and cleaning the exposed part of the throttle body when filter housing/maf is removed) the engine no longer hesistates or drops in rpms when i come to stops  . BUT....

it started missing/bogging again >_< . so i inspect the plug wires... seemed fine... the shortest ones tested 6k-9k ohm so i assumed thats alright, wires had no noticable damage. so i ran the car, and pulled em out one by one to see if any caused a change in idle. all checked out fine except #2... but i knew it was throwing spark... i was starting to think it was something to do with the injector... i pulled off #2 wire and put it down....somehow between then and getting a coke, it fell on the floor and i stepped on it...cracked the boot. so i got a temp. replacment.... 

*NOW* #2,#3, and #4 check out fine, but #1 shows no signs of idle change when pulled, and i KNOW _that's_ throwing a spark. i never messed with it roughly or anything. even made sure both ends were secure and resistance within tolerance; and even put it near some metal-sure enough, it was sparking out the bottom like its supposed to.... so WTF!?

did i do this wrong or something?

oh, and i think i may've fried something too.... i asked my dad to help test the FICD solenoid by applying batt. voltage to it....he instead misunderstood and applied it to the harness! all i hear is "ZAP", and a "shit!.....oh, it's nothing son, just tested the wrong side". >_< the burning smell made me wanna cry  ..... did this little incident do something really bad? (im sure it did)

(should've just stayed in bed)


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

Sorry to hear about the mix up testing the FICD. I have had my share of mix ups. I just hope it works out for you. 



> *NOW* #2,#3, and #4 check out fine, but #1 shows no signs of idle change when pulled, and i KNOW that's throwing a spark


That is the injector I lost (#1). Starting to sound like an injector problem. After having the injector replaced my car started having the same symptoms (missing /bogging). I just drove it on the highway and opened it up. Problem cleared up, and have not had it since. When the #1 injector was totally gone, the car bogged down and was hard to drive. No power.

Fuel Injector Testing and Inspection on GA16DE (B13)
OHM AND NOZZLE RESTRICTION TEST 

1.	Remove the injector connector. 
2.	Using an ohm meter, check its resistance. Resistance should be approximately 12 ohms. If OK, proceed to step #3. If not OK, replace the injector. 
3.	Remove the injector and check nozzle for restriction. 
Replace the injector if it fails test.

If your resistance is OK, maybe the nozzle is restricted. You could try the method I used of opening it up on the highway to clear things out, if the car is running good enough to take it on the highway. Otherwise, you may need to remove the injector to inspect it. Good luck!


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

One other thing. After loosing the injector I changed the fuel filter. I have a feeling my problem was the injector clogging. My symptoms always showed up after using fuel injector cleaner. Maybe something broke free and plugged the injector. I am a believer in changing the fuel filter often with a quality one. Not the cheapest one. Seems to be working well for me. I change mine every 30,000 miles if not sooner.


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## Solidox2k (Jan 21, 2004)

thanx catman, i'll get on it tomorrow. =_= <-- umm...its a groggy face
im getting a chilton's 2morrow, hopefully it'll have more details on harness diags....too cramped to squeeze in there and follow that FCID harness. (well i could, but im lazy  )

:jump: and great post on that AACV/FICD cleaning. worked great on my car (though i'll have to fix this current prob to be sure it worked)..btw, what's "RTV"? i just was careful and reused the old gasket as-is.... can i re-use the gasket on the TB?

just cause the the engine doesn't bogg when a plug is taken out, does that for sure mean the corresponding piston isn't firing? (still moving if i remember, with crankshaft)....oh....thought comes to mind.... 
piston still compresses (moves w/crnkshaft), there's still a spark, but if no/gas in there(e.g. inj. clogged), no firing...so spark or not, same result, right? makes sense i guess....

but i'm still confused as to why the problem moved from #2 to #1, coincidentally right after the sp wire replacement, when the previous wire (before i *broke* it) checked out to be in good shape, and making contact & spark.... gonna check the inj.'s first, don't feel safe driving 50+ mi on possibly 3 pistons.

thanx for the help, and apologies for having 2 threads on basically the same topic(if neone noticed)....wasn't thinking straight :crazy: 

hopefully i'll figure this thing out... and hopefully that harness 'fry' wont have grave consequences :/


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

RTV is a silicone sealant. Comes in various colors, temp ranges, etc,. depending on the application. It can be used instead of a gasket or in conjunction with a gasket to help seal things. Probably not necessary when taking the IACVU off, but I had some left over, so I thought I would just use it to make sure the seal was good.

I never removed the throttle body. Just cleaned it with a toothbrush on the car. I have heard some people reuse the throttle body gasket, but probably better to replace it. If it does not leak, then reuse of the TB gasket may be OK.

You need three things: Spark, Fuel, and Compression. It sounded like you were getting spark, but maybe no fuel, or at least the proper amount. Compression can be tested (something I have never done and do not know how to do). But, after re-reading your post, I get the impression you may have bad plug wires. It was not clear what you meant by all this:



> all checked out fine except #2... but i knew it was throwing spark... i was starting to think it was something to do with the injector... i pulled off #2 wire and put it down....somehow between then and getting a coke, it fell on the floor and i stepped on it...cracked the boot. so i got a temp. replacment....


I had to replace my plug wires. I purchased some at Advance called Xact. They have worked well for about 4 years. With the cracked boot, it may be a good idea to replace your wires. I just looked them up, they are about $35.00.

Most of the recommendations on this board have been to use OEM wires. But, I have had good luck with these wires.

So, your injectors may be fine. Not sure why things went from a problems on #2 to #1, but I am not sure if you changed your plug wires around. If you are sure your plug wires are OK, then check the injectors, but it is sounding more like your wires may have a problem.


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## Solidox2k (Jan 21, 2004)

yea im pretty sure the plug wires are ok, i tested their resistance for continuity and were within range (10k-25k). i also took em off one by one, wiped em down and checked for cracks or wear. seemed in good condition. also watched for any 'arching' while the car was running (in garage w/lights off).

what i meant was i unplugged each wire to check for arcing and change in idle. #2 didnt show anysigns of arcing, but still was giving a spark, but when it was pulled, there was no change in idle..... after i took it off, i accidentally stepped on it.... that cracked the 'boot' end that goes over the plug itself...

i also tried switching the wires... #1 OEM to #2cylinder, and #2 replacement wire(which is a Bosch) on #1cylinder (i made sure to switch the ends on the distributor too). still had no change. #1 still wasn't firing, #2 was fine.

i just got up, gonna do a re-check on the wires, and a few other things, double check the distributor end, make sure the wires are on in order; then get down to the injectors...test em too.


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## Solidox2k (Jan 21, 2004)

*why me...*

well, i've spent the better part of the day cleaning connections, and checking vacuum lines.... and i decided to take off the intake plenum. that was easy enough (where the pcv connects to it, i found unbelievable crud built up in there, ugh).... so i decided to take out the fuel rail....easy.

i want to test the injectors.... good god... i cant budge the damn thing no matter how hard i try.... i guess being so old it's just wedged in there good. #1 injector is screwed up (this time not by me :/ ). the connector was cracked, and after removing the metal brace, parts of the plastic body are cracked or broken. the four plastic prongs at the end of the visible nozzle are broken away too.... i could buy replacements....but i cant remove the damn thing >_< ugh...all i wanted to do today was go fishing 

neway, looks like i need to replace the injector anyway, and still havent checked the others... 

what price should i expect for a new injector? (not OEM, they want $150 for one)
can i use ones from the JY? (i doubt i'd be able to get those out too)


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

You are asking some good questions about the injectors, but, I need the same info. You would not believe this. Today I was 1/4 mile from home. Just pulling up to the last stop light before turning into the subdivision. My car started missing!  Just like it did when my injector went out. So, I will be testing the resistance and pulling the fuel rail tomorrow. I checked Auto Zone and Advance. Auto Zone wanted $73.99 for a new Gp-Sorensen injector. Advance wanted 67.47 for a Beck/Arnley rebuilt with a core charge of $15.00. I am going to look online for rebuilt ones. It is my second car, so not in a hurry to fix. I think my car felt jealous, and now I am going to need to give her some attention!  When you put the fuel rail back, I have the torque specs and the proper procedure if you don't have that info. Right now I am going to relax. It has been a long day!


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

Hope this helps. I searched for rebuilt. There is a shop that will test and clean 1/2 mile from my house. Found info on line. Will check out tomorrow.


REMOVAL OF FUEL RAIL GA16DE

1.	Remove fuel pump fuse. 
2.	Turn the ignition to the start position for approximately 15 seconds (this will release the fuel pressure). 
3.	Remove or disconnect the following items:
•	Fuel hoses 
•	Fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose 
•	Fuel injector connectors NOTE: Make a note or sketch of the position of injector terminals in relation to where the wiring harness was situated. This will aid in reassembly.
Fuel Injectors And Fuel Rail
4.	Remove the fuel injectors with the fuel rail intact. WARNING: Do not place the injector or fuel rail in a vise, this may cause irreparable damage. 
5.	Remove the injectors from the rail, by removing the retainers and pushing on the tail piece. Do not pull on the connector.
Fuel Rail Assembly Pattern

INSTALLATION OF FUEL RAIL GA16DE

1.	Clean all fittings with a suitable cleaning fluid and dry using air pressure. 
2.	Reinstall injectors with new o-rings. NOTE: Use only unleaded fuel to lubricate fittings. 
3.	Install new insulators. 
4.	Reinstall fuel rail and torque the bolts First Torque: 9.3 - 10.8 N-m (6.9 - 8.0 ft.lbs.) Final Torque: 16 - 21 N-m (12 - 15 ft.lbs.) 
5.	Reinstall or connect the following:
•	Fuel hoses 
•	Fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose 
•	Fuel injector connectors
6.	Reinstall the fuel pump fuse. 
7.	Start and operate the engine and check for fuel leaks.


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## Solidox2k (Jan 21, 2004)

hey, you think i could reliably use an injector from a JY? or at least maybe another fuel rail? sounds dumb, i know, but i just wanted to make sure....since i still cant get my injectors out.


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

Maybe someone else can advise you. I thought about pulling the fuel rail myself to assess my injectors. Decided to take it to the mechanic who replaced #1 over a year ago. Then I took a nap! Good luck.


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## Solidox2k (Jan 21, 2004)

*fuel rail*

i forgot where to plug the fuel feed and return lines at.... which one goes on the tube of the fuel rail that has that short section of hose?

EDIT: N/m, i guessed, and suppose i guessed right with the feed and return lines. car is running now, no problems, no hesitation at stops anymore, smooth idle. I ended up having some mechanic pull the injectors, but he screwed em up, so i needed 4 instead of 1  all's good though, i picked up a fuel rail w/4 injectors from a 94' in the JY. installed that, and the car is up and running :jump: 

so i suppose my entire problem was just a clogged injector, and i made a 2pg long fuss about it  though reinstalling the upper intake plenum(sp?) revealed a bolt that wouldn't tighten (like it's stripped inside or something), i'll fix that later, doesn't seem to be causing any probs.

for future note: getting an old injector out, it's easier to use the notches in the side of the injector plastic housing (top)... use a small flathead and something under it, near the tip as a fulcrum, and you can 'pry' it out without hurting it. it's better and easier to pry both sides at once. (be gentle though, u never know when the plastic might be too brittle/old)


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