# Those of you that have bigger tires.....



## MEDEL514 (Nov 24, 2005)

I'm talking about the 05 and newer Frontier.

How much of a gas mileage decrease did you see with the bigger tires? I read through some of the threads for gas mileage on stock tires, but I'm going bigger almost as soon as I get the truck with some Mickey thompson Baja ATZ's

Here are the specs
Stock: 265/65/17, overall dia: 30.6
New: 325/50/20, overall dia: 32.8

I couldn't find the weight on either these tires. Its only a couple inches bigger overall, but I wanted to know if any of you have any feild testing with the gas milage on these trucks with bigger tires.


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## mainerunr (Jul 30, 2005)

it's only a couple inches bigger but over 2 inches wider too and that means a huge increase in contact area. You ARE going to need a lift, people with 285's and a small lift rub due to the width and you're planning on going much wider.

I'm gonna take a stab at it and say you'll lose 4-5 mpg with those if not more.


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## msubullyfan (Jul 24, 2005)

mainerunr said:


> I'm gonna take a stab at it and say you'll lose 4-5 mpg with those if not more.


I'd bet it's even more than that. A friend of mine put bigger wheels on his '03 Tacoma with a 3" lift kit and his gas mileage went from 18 to 11.


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## mainerunr (Jul 30, 2005)

msubullyfan said:


> I'd bet it's even more than that. A friend of mine put bigger wheels on his '03 Tacoma with a 3" lift kit and his gas mileage went from 18 to 11.



Doesnt surprise me...thats why I said ...if not more. Also one of the reasons I'm still debating between 265/76-16's and 285/75-16's when these grabbers die.


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## jerryp58 (Jan 6, 2005)

msubullyfan said:


> I'd bet it's even more than that. A friend of mine put bigger wheels on his '03 Tacoma with a 3" lift kit and his gas mileage went from 18 to 11.


Did he adjust the odometer reading for the larger tires?


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## MEDEL514 (Nov 24, 2005)

That is a bigg difference. So the wide tire also took a hit to the mpg? I didn't know it would affect it so much. I thought the biggest affect would be on the overall diameter. The tires I was looking at getting only came in 325, I think the Nitto Grapplers come in 305/50/20, I might have to make a switch. Wide tires look so sweet though.......


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## azrocketman (Oct 5, 2005)

msubullyfan said:


> I'd bet it's even more than that. A friend of mine put bigger wheels on his '03 Tacoma with a 3" lift kit and his gas mileage went from 18 to 11.


A couple of things can be in play here.

1) The speedometer and odometer will read low since each revolution of the bigger tires causes the truck to roll further.

2) The rolling resistance of the new tires may be higher.

3) The aerodynamics may be poorer with more of the drive shafts, axles, and suspension "hanging out in the wind" because of the lift.

4) The gearing may be less than optimal and the engine is lugging more. In effect, the bigger tires have created a lower numerical final drive ratio. I'd be curious to know has is RPM's changed, say at 60 mph in high gear.


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## whatnow (Dec 31, 2005)

Well, I put on new wheels and tires, my tires are 285/60/18's on a stock CC so they are 31.4 inches compared to stock height 30.6. The calculations of the different size tires say my speedo is about 2.5 percent slow, but my milage hasn't changed a bit from the stock tires, if anything it's improved because I'm still getting around 18 mpg. Keep in mind that is with a speedo that is slow and about 40/60 highway/city split not to mention I'm too lazy to figure in the 2.5% to bump my milage up.. but I don't really care either since I'm happy with the milage considering the power this truck makes. I honestly started checking my milage only because of this forum and the complaints about gas milage, so I was curious as to how my truck compares. 

I read these posts of people getting 12 and 14 consistently and I honestly don't know how they are getting that kind of milage unless they are always towing a 19ft boat (yep, I got just over 14 with the boat in tow and 3 passengers) or getting busted for speeding and excessive acceleration constantly. I'm pretty far from a conservative driver (80mph on highway, pull away from lights at a good pace) so I don't know what you people are doing to get such poor milage. 

I have a thought, maybe it's a conspiracy and they don't even really own a frontier.. it's really just toyota sales people and they just post these negative comments as a marketing ploy so people doing research will buy a Taco instead?? 





MEDEL514 said:


> I'm talking about the 05 and newer Frontier.
> 
> How much of a gas mileage decrease did you see with the bigger tires? I read through some of the threads for gas mileage on stock tires, but I'm going bigger almost as soon as I get the truck with some Mickey thompson Baja ATZ's
> 
> ...


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## MEDEL514 (Nov 24, 2005)

Your 285/60/18's are the same rolling dia as a stock Nismo tire (P265/75R16), which is actually only an inch smaller in diameter than the tires I was looking to get! This is a good site to play around with tire sizes: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

I guess now all I have to worry about is having the wide tire on there robbing my mpg's, but is a wide tire really gonna hurt it that much? 

As for the lift, I was gonna do the Calmini 2.5" front and 1.5" rear lift kit. The extra inch in front is to level off the truck. Are there any other good lift kits out there similar to this one?


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## mainerunr (Jul 30, 2005)

MEDEL514 said:


> Your 285/60/18's are the same rolling dia as a stock Nismo tire (P265/75R16), which is actually only an inch smaller in diameter than the tires I was looking to get! This is a good site to play around with tire sizes: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
> 
> I guess now all I have to worry about is having the wide tire on there robbing my mpg's, but is a wide tire really gonna hurt it that much?
> 
> As for the lift, I was gonna do the Calmini 2.5" front and 1.5" rear lift kit. The extra inch in front is to level off the truck. Are there any other good lift kits out there similar to this one?



Good luck with 2.5" in the front. You may be fine but you also may have issues with the upper a-arm hitting the coil bucket.


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## atom (Dec 13, 2005)

whatnow said:


> I read these posts of people getting 12 and 14 consistently and I honestly don't know how they are getting that kind of milage unless they are always towing a 19ft boat (yep, I got just over 14 with the boat in tow and 3 passengers) or getting busted for speeding and excessive acceleration constantly. I'm pretty far from a conservative driver (80mph on highway, pull away from lights at a good pace) so I don't know what you people are doing to get such poor milage.
> 
> I have a thought, maybe it's a conspiracy and they don't even really own a frontier.. it's really just toyota sales people and they just post these negative comments as a marketing ploy so people doing research will buy a Taco instead??


hwy mileage is decent on the truck, I dont think anyone is arguing that. its once you get into suburb/city driving that it really starts guzzle. 

my stock nismo gets 13-14 city and 17-18.5 hwy, but im never on the hwy more than 35-40 minutes. the gauge never stops climbing before i get to the city. i can see it possibly going to at least 19 for a continous time. maybe 20 w/ intake an exhaust? is your fronty a nismo? that makes a difference too. maybe you live in a less congested area than us?


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## atom (Dec 13, 2005)

the project nismo frontier that four wheeler magazine did, has 325/60/18 Toyo A/Ts and went down to 13hwy/12.5city

http://www.fourwheeler.com/projectbuild/129_0510_frnt/index.html


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## mainerunr (Jul 30, 2005)

atom said:


> hwy mileage is decent on the truck, I dont think anyone is arguing that. its once you get into suburb/city driving that it really starts guzzle.
> 
> my stock nismo gets 13-14 city and 17-18.5 hwy, but im never on the hwy more than 35-40 minutes. the gauge never stops climbing before i get to the city. i can see it possibly going to at least 19 for a continous time. maybe 20 w/ intake an exhaust? is your fronty a nismo? that makes a difference too. maybe you live in a less congested area than us?



My SE has the same gears as a KC 6-spd Nismo and I have smaller tires (same width) so I turn more rpm at any given speed (I'll have at least Nismo sized tires as soon as the Grabbers are done). Plus I lug around more weight.

As for there being a difference because you/others have a Nismo, the only difference is the gears and tires. Since I have the same gears (and lower than the auto Nismo's), that leaves tires and I dont think there is a huge difference there. Unless that locker is somehow creating more driveline loss just by being there, I dont see the rationale that you should get worse mileage because you have a Nismo.


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## MEDEL514 (Nov 24, 2005)

mainerunr said:


> Good luck with 2.5" in the front. You may be fine but you also may have issues with the upper a-arm hitting the coil bucket.


That lift is the one offered on Calmini.com. I too thought 2.5 might have issues, but I trust Calmini, I've been using their products on my Suzuki/Geo for sometime now. 

Are there any other good lifts for the Frontier? Maybe a 2" in the front and 2" in the rear? I didn't think the stock fwd rake on these truckswas all that bad, but Calmini says the inch difference up front is to level off the truck. 

Has there been any word on the 07' model changes for these trucks yet?


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## MrFancypants (Nov 18, 2005)

There's a coil suspension lift for the 05/06 Frontier being sold by 4x4parts.com:

http://www.4x4parts.com/public_html...2&ps_session=d41b96d186b8b77ba6e10267183bf6c5

Im anxious to see a review from someone. It hasnt been out long. You can get add-a-leaf or shackles in the rear.


- Greg -


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## mainerunr (Jul 30, 2005)

MEDEL514 said:


> That lift is the one offered on Calmini.com. I too thought 2.5 might have issues, but I trust Calmini, I've been using their products on my Suzuki/Geo for sometime now.
> 
> Are there any other good lifts for the Frontier? Maybe a 2" in the front and 2" in the rear? I didn't think the stock fwd rake on these truckswas all that bad, but Calmini says the inch difference up front is to level off the truck.
> 
> Has there been any word on the 07' model changes for these trucks yet?


You can get the PRG kit with a 2" block for the rear (it's not listed on their website but call them, I did and will probably go that route when I order but I'm also considering waiting until I can spring for the a-arms and 3" front lift and going with 1.5" blocks and shackles for the rear)


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## mainerunr (Jul 30, 2005)

MrFancypants said:


> There's a coil suspension lift for the 05/06 Frontier being sold by 4x4parts.com:
> 
> http://www.4x4parts.com/public_html...2&ps_session=d41b96d186b8b77ba6e10267183bf6c5
> 
> ...



While I understand that in theory, a coil lift should be better than a spacer, my issue with this is I think you will lose most of your available downward travel unless you swap out the shocks to something with more travel or longer to begin with. They rely on the shock to keep everything from going beyond factory spec, the springs just push you farther down in the normal travel range.


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## MrFancypants (Nov 18, 2005)

mainerunr said:


> While I understand that in theory, a coil lift should be better than a spacer, my issue with this is I think you will lose most of your available downward travel unless you swap out the shocks to something with more travel or longer to begin with. They rely on the shock to keep everything from going beyond factory spec, the springs just push you farther down in the normal travel range.


Correct... I would probably want a longer shock. They claim on the website that it's only necessary in the rear, but might be worth investigation in the front as well. Everything boils down to someone being the guinea pig! 


- Greg -


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## mcm4090 (Jan 20, 2006)

I think the coil lift would be a hard ride.
IF I can fit a 33x13.00/16 with spacers, what size will fit with spacers and
a rear lift?


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## mainerunr (Jul 30, 2005)

Unless you plan on trimming, I seriously doubt you will fit 33x13's unless you like rubbing.


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## MEDEL514 (Nov 24, 2005)

MrFancypants said:


> Correct... I would probably want a longer shock. They claim on the website that it's only necessary in the rear, but might be worth investigation in the front as well. Everything boils down to someone being the guinea pig!


I wonder how much stiffer the coil springs are. I wouldn't mind a little rougher, but I don't want to loose the ride quality from the truck. Do those add-a-leafsmake the rear end more rigid as well?


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## mainerunr (Jul 30, 2005)

MEDEL514 said:


> I wonder how much stiffer the coil springs are. I wouldn't mind a little rougher, but I don't want to loose the ride quality from the truck. Do those add-a-leafsmake the rear end more rigid as well?


I have heard you can hang awinch-mount bumper with little to no sag with the coils and the add-a-leaf will stiffen up the back as well. If you do the coils, you may want to look into a longer shock or one with more travel since you will lose most of your downward travel if you keep the stock shocks.

I dont know what's out there for shock options but something 2" longer with the same travel or same length with 2" more travel might be good. I can see where you might have issues with a longer shock bottoming out (or would it be topping out...shaft jammed fully into the cylinder) under full compression though...


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## GTIMANiac (Jan 14, 2006)

I emailed them a month ago about the springs and add-a-leaf and got this response when I asked about shocks.

Thank you for your interest in our products. We have several different shock kits that are getting added in to our web page today. I would recommend going with RS9000X rear shocks, the brake lines will be added later this week. The ABS line can be extended by a customer by adjusting the rubber grommet that is on outside of the ABS line.
If we can be of any further assistance or you wish to order, call or you can order on line at www.4x4parts.com


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## MEDEL514 (Nov 24, 2005)

I wonder if the Nismo bilstien shock have more travel than the OEM LE shocks? I'm sure Bilstien has something that I can use in their line-up.


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## mdaugherty (Feb 14, 2006)

Am following this link with interest. Had my 05 KC Nismo down in Baja for the San Felippe 250 this weekend and it did well. Going slow, nothing was a problem. Would like a little more clearance and protection to handle something things with less care. The guy I had with me is an old racer and offroad fabber and he certainly thought an extra shock to control rebound would be helpful.
Mike D


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## Cascabel3 (Aug 12, 2005)

I run 33" BFG Mud Terrain on a 2" lift. I have a Scan Gauge installed which reads my on board computer. The SanGauge is also calibrated for the increase in tire size hence it gives me correct speeds and MPGs. I average about 17mpg 50/50 city and Hwy. The rule is, on flat you could actually gain mpgs with bigger tires, but since you lose torque, you have lower mpg in hilly terrain or with a lead foot.


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## scuba91ta (Aug 19, 2005)

i'm actually wondering if the nismo trucks might see no change? bwith the extra gearing, (nismos run about 2k at 65mph) i'm wondering if it wont effect them as much?


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## mainerunr (Jul 30, 2005)

I've got nothing official with just the lift (PRG 2" front and rear) but my last fill-up was 200 mi pre lift, 150 post and I had my best tank since october (keep in mind I still have stock tires).

When I went up in (tire)size with my 97 I did gain fuel economy but that beast had like 4.56 gears (or higher...I've managed to forget a lot about that truck in 8 months).

I'm still on the fence about what tire size to go with when the grabbers wear out. I suspect I may end up with 265/75r16 TRxus but I may just bite the bullet and go with 285's, others seem to be having decent luck with them.

I just wish I knew someone who had TRxus and could tell me how they wear.


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