# SCCA rule book translation



## SR20 Who Knew? (Jul 29, 2003)

Was reading for the rule book for rally, and concerning car classes, in open class the brief description is:
" the engine is unrestricted, but must be derived (at least the engine block) from a porduct line offered by the manufacturer of the vehicle."
Does that include engine swaps from cars that are made from the same company?
I ask because I'm thinking what can I do to the car and don't want to end up spending money on stuff only to find out that it's illegal.


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## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

On the face of it, it sounds like the engine must be sold in that model. You could swap the GA16 for an CA18 or SR20, but no sixes or eights.

That said, I have never looked into rally beyond the occasional splurging on WRC. In SCCA road racing or autocross, if it isn't explicitely written in the rules you can't do it.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

SR20 Who Knew? said:


> Was reading for the rule book for rally, and concerning car classes, in open class the brief description is:
> " the engine is unrestricted, but must be derived (at least the engine block) from a porduct line offered by the manufacturer of the vehicle."
> Does that include engine swaps from cars that are made from the same company?
> I ask because I'm thinking what can I do to the car and don't want to end up spending money on stuff only to find out that it's illegal.


I believe that means you can swap an engine from any single car to any other cars in that manufacturer's fleet, and proceed to build on that. There don't seem to be too many cars that are taking advantage of that now in last year's lineup, but there was a very fast Hyundai Elantra back in 96 which was powered by a turbo Sonata engine. What I can't tell you is whether the engine has to go into a car built in the same year or set of years (unlikely, but worth checking out).

Just out of curiosity, what do you have planned?


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## SR20 Who Knew? (Jul 29, 2003)

ReVerm said:


> Just out of curiosity, what do you have planned?


Well I just got approved for a car loan to get a 2001 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS coupe. Plan on looking at one sometime this week and if I like it I'll take it. Plan on making a rally car out of the impreza (probably take years though  ) and swaping in a USDM wrx engine in there. Chose the RS cause of the weight difference and it's a 2 door. Maybe a STi swap if I'm patient enough to save for that long. STi power in a car thats a little over 400 pounds lighter than a STi to begin with. :thumbup:


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

In Canada in Open, you can put in ANY Subie block in a Subie, from anywhere in the world and from any car. I do believe it to be the same in the US. Just be sure your motor meets the size requirement for the SCCA.

That said, I would have to advise you to not build an open car as your first rally car. Building an open car is exspensive and upkeep is ridiculous. Then, after all that work, it isn't likely that you'll be competitive against the factory teams, even though you will have to run in their class. There's a lot of frustration in constantly being an also ran.

If you have your heart set on the Subaru, build it as a Production car. You will still be down on power, but will have some hope of being competitive.

However, my unbiased advise to you if you want to build a car is a B13 SE-R. The SE-R is the most underrated 2WD rally platform in North America. If you start in production, you have a pretty solid car. You can get the bugs worked out and be competitive in your class. Once you're ready for the next step, you can starting modding the engine and move up to Group 2. A well prpepared Group 2 car has a huge weight advantage over those open cars, and have quite often appeared on the podium here in Canada. Then, when you're ready (or you can skip right to this step from production) turbo it and run Group 5. IMO, Gr.5 is one the the most exciting classes that the US has. Lots of competition and fast cars, with less exspense than Open.

But after all that, I would highly advise you to buy a "gently used" rally car (only rallied on weekends!!!). Well prepared cars can be had for the cost of a cage and safety equipment, and someone has already worked out a lot of the bugs. Look for a car built by professionals and that hasn't been crashed too much. The other benefit is that you should be good to run it NOW, as opposed to next year or a couple years from now. You pocket book will like you for it too.


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## SR20 Who Knew? (Jul 29, 2003)

Well I looked into the production class and that seems to be way more obtainable than open class, plus I can still move up to different classes if I want to. Don't need huge amounts of power since the mods allowed are pretty much nothing, so I can build it sooner. I also looked into used rally cars too (A GTiR is for sale in san diego with a roll cage installed already, not sure if its SCCA legal but thought it was worth mentioning since this is a nissan site) but I really have my eyes on the 2.5, which barely makes it into the production class engine size limit I think. (2.5 liters and the limit is 2600 something cc, I stink at conversions) Either way thanks for the info.


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

A GTi-R would have to run open class, if it's eligible at all. The cage may also not be eligible, depending on construction. I'd be wary of any vehicle with a cage not purposely built for SCCA rally, and that does not already have a log book. Nothing would suck more than having to tear a cage out of a car because it isn't suitable for rally.

Does the 2.5 RS have 16 valves? Don't forget, there is a modifier of 1.2 for having 4 valves/cylinder. This may bring you over the allowance.

Fell free to AIM me about this stuff, and a lot of questions could be answered on www.specialstage.com in the forums there.


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## SR20 Who Knew? (Jul 29, 2003)

Yeah it's 16 valves, so that puts it out of the production class with the multipliers. Maximum actual displacement for 16 valves is 2000cc. Looks like the sr20 would make a nice choice for a engine, and I already have one, hehehehe


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

Upon review of the crazy SCCA classifications, you could run the 2.5 in PGT, against WRXs and Talons, but a Sentra would be in Production, against Focuses and Neons. Production seems like an underpopulated class though, and you might want to make the jump to Gr. 2 as soon as you're comfortable


> FIA Group N
> Very similar in basic concept to the SCCA Production and Production GT classes, these very competitive cars must follow the globally recognized rules format specified by the FIA. There are four classes within Group N, which allow this category's formula to accommodate a wide variety of vehicles.
> 
> Open Class
> ...


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## SR20 Who Knew? (Jul 29, 2003)

Hmmm Production GT sounds cool. To bad the 2.5 didn't come turboed, even though it has the hood vents and all. The scca rule book is very confusing, I should just buy a copy and read it whenever I have some spare time. I got a lot of reading to do then. Funny how your plans for a car change when you change from wanting just a fast car, to a fast SCCA legal car.

Edit: 1,000 post YEAH!!! :thumbup:


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

Yeah, I downloaded the SCCA rally regs and find them to be odd, coming from a reading the CARS rulebook all the time. The production classes down there are totally different(here we have 4 production clases, although the bottom 2 are underpopulated sometimes). It would probably help to have a hard copy in hand though. It's really good to know your series regs inside and out. It helps to figure out what you can get away with (which once resulted in the difference between a 2nd place overall finish for us and a last place finish) and to stop other teams from getting away with things.

But yeah, too bad about the 2.5. Running against WRXs with their power advantage would not be a fun activity. If you want to have fun, in a very competitive class, Gr. 2 is the way to go. You can still spend heaps of money, but if you're good, you can win something.

I've seen a lot of good drivers compete against superior cars and get frustrated by their lack of success and eventually quit. It isn't fun always being an also ran, just because your car is down by 40 hp and can't keep up.


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## SR20 Who Knew? (Jul 29, 2003)

With the engine swap that you did to your rally car, did that affect the class that you run in?


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## Felonious Cat Stalker (May 1, 2002)

Since we were already running Group 2 with a lot of mods, it did not. However, had we not modded the engine or stripped the interior (amongst other things) we would have been in Production 3 here in Canada, and Production in the US. This car had been built from the start as a Group 2 car though.


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