# Camber issues front and back



## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Well I got an alignment whenever I put my new shocks on the rear and had all four wheels done of course. Bad thing was I never got print out sheets before and after. (Mistake on my part)

I've got the outside edge of the front tires wearing like crazy and the inside of the tire wearing like crazy on the back end.

Now I know the camber isn't adjustable on the rear end but what is a best way of tackling it. Is there any other way than slotting the rear crossmemeber?

As for the front I would assume the camber is adjustable up front. If not let me know. 

What should I do guys, I mean I probably haven't put 10000 miles on my Z and half of my tires are pretty close to being at the end of their specs.


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## R34MAN (Jan 10, 2006)

Well, sadly enough I can't help you remedy your problem but I can definitely sypathize with you. I own a 2003 350Z and I have gone through 3 sets of front tires in the last year. The car has been taken back to the dealership where I bought it because of numerous letters that have been sent to me from Nissan regarding the front end specs. I did however see an article on a 300zx that had suspension upgrades. Here it is and I hope that it may solve some of your problems http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0405scc_project300z/


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

R34MAN said:


> I did however see an article on a 300zx that had suspension upgrades. Here it is and I hope that it may solve some of your problems http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0405scc_project300z/


Your Zs forefathers history>you...  That is a Z32...he has a Z31.

Z31...









Z32











Now for the help...You shouldn't have positive camber up front; what did you have changed to the front before this issue arised?

Also for the rear...other then either slotting the way most people do it or adding the K-MAC kit there isn't much. It could be bad bushings, but I'm not there in person to see. 

One option for the front to get a little more positive camber is this... install the front control arms from a 87-89. It will give you a little more negative front camber...Z31.com claims -0.4. Or you can take it back to the shop that did the work and have them fix the camber...


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Alright so the front end camber is obviously adjustable. I haven't done anything to the suspension up front at all. I have the stock size tires. So I'm not really sure what has happened.

Can you provide a link to the "K-MAC" kit. What is it? I've already got an 87 so I should already have the control arms you are talking about. Bushings are also probably a problem. They're more than likely original.

Thanks JamesZ


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

asleepz said:


> Can you provide a link to the "K-MAC" kit. What is it? I've already got an 87 so I should already have the control arms you are talking about. Bushings are also probably a problem. They're more than likely original.
> 
> Thanks JamesZ


Since you have an 87 then you can swap the strut tubes from an 84-86. 


There is a link to K-MAC, it is what I am using on my Z, however I can't tell you how good it is since it is only installed and I havent finished the car yet
http://www.k-mac.com/
(you could also do the slotting method shown here... http://z31.com/suspension/rearcamber.shtml )

As for the front just take the car back and tell them to fix it.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

You know, I keep thinking about the rear shocks when I put them in, it seemed I may have had a bushing "left over". There were four in all I do believe. 2 for each shock. Now before you start cringing. I don't believe there was a space for it. I'm going to have to investigate this one further. And if it is the case that I'm missing something, where would I be able to order such a part? Maybe from Tokico? (The brand I put on)


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

I don't remember front camber being adjustable on the Z31....... Toe is, and thats about the only thing, as I recall. My car had issues with wear on the outside of the tires, but on the passenger side only. This was when I first got it. I replaced the entire strut on that side, and it straightened right out. Turned out the spindle itself ( which is attached the outter strut tube and cannot be removed) was bent, likely from a good deal of curb checking before I got it. This may be what your problem is.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

I know my struts could a replacement. But I'm wondering why the rear is so bad. I mean, hell like I said, I probably have just over 7 ot 8K miles on these tires. Is it destined to be a weekend little cruise car?


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Weak rear springs, bad rear end design, its a lost cause. You'll have to replace every bushing back there with urethane, brand new springs, and only then will it probably straighten up. I have a quick fix I'll PM you about...


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

What about Tein Camber Plates, is there any I can adapt over to fit


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## z31 (Oct 19, 2004)

asleepz said:


> What about Tein Camber Plates, is there any I can adapt over to fit


you can put camber plates on the front. You should still find out what's screwed up in the front end before 'fixing' it with camber plates.

My old 85 had over 3 deg of negative camber in the rear and didn't wear out tires as fast as you seem to be. 

If the shop didn't give you a printout, how do you know if they even did anything? Is your alignment even to spec?


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Well the camber isn't adjustable... I mean a guess the toe could do it.


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## redz31 (Jan 27, 2008)

asleepz said:


> Well I got an alignment whenever I put my new shocks on the rear and had all four wheels done of course. Bad thing was I never got print out sheets before and after. (Mistake on my part)
> 
> I've got the outside edge of the front tires wearing like crazy and the inside of the tire wearing like crazy on the back end.
> 
> ...


Hi 
The VIN number helps in questions like these.
The myriad of differences between models is huge.

In short - wheel alignment is a black art and is subject to testing and preferences.
Racing or street use?? Massive difference in settings, you should state which your after becuase the opposite settings are generally used.

Note: if you have changed any component from the stock version of the number than specifications will go out for all specs i.e. change rim an you change camber/toe and castor to some degree. Bear this is mind if checking coil sizes/ heights etc

Alignment angles were tested by Nissan with high standards for optimal settings, they locked the camber in at the rear so idiot mechanics could not get it wrong in aligning. 
Testing is beyond our normal alignment procedure, whilst we should align with what you carry in the car, such as full fuel tank, spare tyre, jack and passenger etc (I sit in my car for an alignment/ or put weight in) Nissan actually tested right down to tyre pressure and tyre temperature etc for the optimal settings for each model ie GL / Turbo / Motor etc.

Zbum will give you the exact settings for the model, however this is based on a stock version of the model you have, generally more torque in car stronger components were used.
You did not state whether you had adjustable suspension your year model had this feature? It will make a difference obviously.

In short - they stuffed up the front! (or thought you were heading to a tight race track for 5 laps)
Yes the front is adjustable in camber/castor and toe
The rear is not adjustable in camber for the reasons outlined above
The rear can only be adjusted in castor/ toe

If the rear tyres are as bad as you say, the real question is when you look at the back of the car, can you see the camber? If this is the case then you definately have sagging springs or the wrong size or a change such as rim size, coils are common to sag after 20 years, and you will need to get new ones - do not buy another set of used (saggy springs), again though this depends on use. Poly should only be used if you are after performance they will stiffen the coils a lot, but they can squeak as well but that is nothing a bit of soap cant fix. The reason I say this is becuase the ride is effected and you will have harder vibrations against the mounts and if your intention is to just use as a economical car with comfy ride then rubber will do. Poly will also add a little lift obviously (toughter in compression) Springs are a huge issue and the exact specifications to the model should be sought as there are about 18 to choose from. If you are racing around corners you may want to look at linear coil types as they are stiffer, hot wound coil springs are better as they last longer in spring, hard to get cold now anyway. Generally speaking if you replace your coils then you recondition your adjustables or get new shocks, again shocks should be also rated to the coil (hard coil/ hard shock), adjustables go for recondition(regas) or replace with standard, unless you like corners fast and harder bumps(more wear)

The front should not be a problem, can be reset.
The rear ?? depends on your situation (can you see it)
If they stuffed the castor they could exagerate the effect and you may not need to get new coils, but to the extent your talking, I dont think so - sounds like coils sagging, so check sway bar and shocks as well. 
The real issue is actually a balance between performance and good wear, you cannot have both. If you want both, stick to Nissan specs for the exact model, they tested for the optimal of both (the balance), but that is not to say that you cannot add things like crossmember bars that help a lot in tightening or poly bushes that last longer

Hope this helps


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

The VIN isn't really going to help for squat on this question.

His signature says 1987 turbo, so that's what I would guess.

There are no differences in the alignment specs after the 1984 model year. I'm guessing they figured something out between the original specs and the second year. I'm guessing there is a TSB somewhere for the 84 models that includes the new specs.



> Well I got an alignment whenever I put my new shocks on the rear and had all four wheels done of course. Bad thing was I never got print out sheets before and after. (Mistake on my part)


Changing shocks should have zero effect on your alignment.



> I've got the outside edge of the front tires wearing like crazy and the inside of the tire wearing like crazy on the back end.


outside = most likely toe.
inside = camber issues.



> Now I know the camber isn't adjustable on the rear end but what is a best way of tackling it. Is there any other way than slotting the rear crossmemeber?


best way is to slot the rear crossmember.



> As for the front I would assume the camber is adjustable up front. If not let me know.


nope. only thing adjustable in the front is the toe.



> What should I do guys, I mean I probably haven't put 10000 miles on my Z and half of my tires are pretty close to being at the end of their specs.


so fix the suspension and get it aligned.


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## redz31 (Jan 27, 2008)

Agree with all your statements az zbum

however the vin will lead him to getting the exact coil specs that can be compared against the version present in the car

At the end of the day we are are here to help each other, disreguard what you dont want to believe or hear - so your sugar comment is innappropriate

I just fixed the very same problem on mine (on the rear at least) - saggy coils / bushes were worn!!!!!!
P.S. Note: You will find the kmac kit specs are slightly out with the original specs - consider this
In short - take the car back to who did your alignment and tell them to fix it properly!
Regards


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

What do coils have anything to do with it? Unless he's wanting to change the springs. And even then, there is no way to adjust the number of coils in the springs.

Alignment shops NEVER touch springs. They just can't. There is nothing to do to adjust them. So since the stock Z31 is only capable of having the toe adjusted, there isn't much he can do about them. Only if he slots the rear crossmember can the camber be adjusted.

And all that stuff after the disclaimer is part of my signature.


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## redz31 (Jan 27, 2008)

Hi
Your not a dummy - that much I can tell, I dont claim to know everything.
But your last post is a bit confusing?? - perhaps its a language barrier between Aust and US

*What do coils have anything to do with it? *Coils have a direct relationship between the height/ lift between the body and the axle(arm) - if the coil is sagging (ie 20 yr old car) the camber will change as the car is lower and wear will occur on the inside - do you want me to draw a picture to explain?

*Unless he's wanting to change the springs. *Confusing??? There are no leaf springs in the Z? I must assume that you are referring to coil springs - in Aust we call them coils or coil springs - generally springs refer to leaf type which are not present. However I also understand that there are coils in springs hence coil springs - I wasnt referring to the amount of coils in the spring but rather the height of the coil/ spring under load - see previous post.

*And even then, there is no way to adjust the number of coils in the springs.* Correct you cannot adjust the height, the number of coils in a sized spring can change depending on manufacturer and type (cold /hot/ performance), having said that there is a determined amount of coils in the specs of the manufacturer this also includes thickness.

*Alignment shops NEVER touch springs. They just can't. *This is correct!!

*There is nothing to do to adjust them. *This is correct!! 

*So since the stock Z31 is only capable of having the toe adjusted, there isn't much he can do about them. *This is not quite correct as the castor can be adjusted as well.

NOTE: If the coil spring is sagging after twenty years of use then they need replacing due to the wear from the camber change (will be negative camber causing wear on inner of tyre) 

*Only if he slots the rear crossmember can the camber be adjusted. *Yes but if the coil is sagging you need to replace the coil - slotting will only give you an adjustment - it will not replace the stiffness that the coil has lost - he needs to fix the problem (sagging coil) as this effects the ride itself and places more load on the shocks to absorb the excessive bounce on a bumpy road - slotting is good if the coils are not quite to specs as it can compensate the camber missing from the height adjustment (negative/ or positive)
Hope this helps


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

redz31 said:


> perhaps its a language barrier between Aust and US


Definitely a language barrier. You should put your location in your profile so people know you use different words for things.

springs are springs are springs. If they're coil or leaf, they're always just called springs. Over here, some people say coil springs or leaf springs, but never just leaf or just coil.

There is more to a spring than just the number of coils. Type of material used. Strength of metal. Diameter of coil. Thickness of metal. Overall height of coil. Overall length of metal. etc. Just saying the number of coils isn't going to do anything. And it's pretty much irrelevant anyway. Aftermarket springs do not conform to standard specifications as set forth by the original manufacturer. Aftermarket springs typically lower cars slightly anyway.



redz31 said:


> I wasnt referring to the amount of coils in the spring but rather the height of the coil/ spring under load


That would be directly related to the spring constant and the free length of the spring. Neither of which can be adjusted by any alignment shop. So it's irrelevant information.



redz31 said:


> having said that there is a determined amount of coils in the specs of the manufacturer this also includes thickness


Yes. But as is pointed out, it's not adjustable. So what does it matter?



redz31 said:


> If the coil spring is sagging after twenty years of use then they need replacing due to the wear from the camber change (will be negative camber causing wear on inner of tyre)


This is a true statement. But the ability to buy original springs is very low. Most aftermarket springs are designed to give a firmer ride and at the same time lower the car from the original height. Thus, the actual ride height will not likely change and thus the camber issue will still be present.



redz31 said:


> he needs to fix the problem (sagging coil) as this effects the ride itself and places more load on the shocks to absorb the excessive bounce on a bumpy road


Once again. Finding original spec coil springs is getting more difficult to do (if it's even possible). Softer springs will actually take less load on the shocks since the shocks won't be fighting for control. But it will increase the chances of the car bottoming out, which can create other problems in the long run.

So telling him to replace his coil springs as a way to adjust the camber is not a solid piece of advice. You'd have to test, measure, calculate, test, measure, calculate, a number of times. And then you'd have to hope that the springs you need are even available.

No. To adjust the camber, you want to slot the crossmember. It's the only viable solution to his problem. Replacing the coil springs just isn't feasible. Especially if he already has aftermarket springs in his car.


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