# 25,000 mile Sludge! Need help on what to do!



## chub (Aug 5, 2005)

2003 3.5 Nissan Altima
We brought a brand new 2003 Nissan Altima on 07/07/2003 with a 3yr 36,000 mile warranty along with an extended warranty 5yr 50,000miles. It’s now 1 year 10 months old with 25,000 miles on it. It started smoking, loosing power and (when it is low noise outside) I hear water under it. Months ago I had called into the dealer when we saw a very lit smoke in the summer time. The dealer told me it was normal. A couple months went by and the car started smoking heavy like an older car. I called the dealer again he stated what u hear is your fuel tank and use 93 for two weeks and you should be fine. I did just that but when I started loosing power I didn’t call I just took it into the dealer Len Stoler Nissan in Owings Mills on May 31, 2005 where I brought it from. They told me I had sludge in the engine and that voids the warranty unless I can show that I had the maintenance done on the car. I gave the dealer my maintenance receipts showing that the services were done on my car. They called the shop and verified that the work was done. They then told me they called, emailed Nissan and showed the maintenance receipts to the Nissan rep when he came out, an looked in the opening of my oil crank case. He saw sludge and said no Nissan will not fix the car. The only thing the Nissan dealer and Nissan looked at on the car was, in the opening of the oil cover where you screw the top off to put oil in. The dealer said pay them $700.00 to drop the oil pan and if the pan is, clean from sludge then Nissan will honor it. My reply was why would I have to pay 700.00 just to drop an oil pan for a car that’s still under warranty. Why would I accept the responsibility of 700.00 to drop the oil pan and that might not be one of the factors that caused it? Cause they kept insisting that I did not change my oil, that is the only thing that causes sludge and maybe the other car shop just took my money. They have open bay doors where you can see what is being done to your car. Although I turned in my maintenance records I cannot believe how they just straight disregarded them and never looked at any other options that could have caused the sludge such as a cracked head or gasket. It was blowing white smoke and they did try to tell me that we had no oil or coolant in it when I brought it in. Crank case ventilation, inadequate oil circulation, oxides of nitrogen from emissions system, cool or hot spots, or etc. that could be the problem. The Nissan dealer that I brought two brand new cars from is still trying to tell me that I didn't change my oil and that’s the only thing sludge comes from along with no customer satisfaction at all. The Nissan dealer also kept calling the car shop questioning them about the maintenance records. They questioned the service records like if we made them up. Then they called my wife in while I was gone serving my country. Offering her $7,500 for a trade in on a car we brought from them for $20,000 plus. I am a United States Soldier and I do not appreciate the way we are being treated by Nissan Manufacturer. Nissan questioned our honor and integrity. (WHERE IS THE CUSTOMER SERVICE AT?) Why would the Nissan dealer try to offer a no go deal unless their trying to conceal the fact that Nissan was looking at paying out 5,000 dollars plus for a new engine that they said I need. How can Nissan sell you a brand new car but will not honor the warranty on it? The dealer did state if I brought my car to them for all my services we would not have no problem. The Nissan dealer and Nissan would expect any other shop to honor their service receipts or is Nissan stating that they are the only reputable repair shops. I even tried to reach the Nissan rep that made the decision on not fixing the car. I called the dealer and Nissan1 to reach him. They said they couldn’t give me his number they will contact him. He never contacted me so I then called Nissan1 again to see who was over him. I was told that if the field Rep makes the decision of no its no and its no one over him. I can take my car to another dealer to see what they have to say or write a letter to the Exec team. It was the same scenario at the other dealer. They did not look for any other factors. I never saw the Nissan Rep. again and he said no. 
Sludge does not only come from: Not Changing the Oil
Other Factors that could cause sludge: 

Mechanical Malfunctions: 
A small, subtle malfunction, like a leak from your cooling system into your crankcase 
Crankcase Ventilation
An improperly operating cooling system
If your thermostat sticks and does not allow coolant flow when needed, your engine will either run too cold or hot causing cold and hot spots. 
(You may not even notice the difference on your temp gauge)
Constant elevated temperatures promotes oil thickening 
Excessive amount of fuel due to leaky fuel injectors, malfunctioning choke mechanism or failed oxygen sensor can also contribute to sludge formation
ETC.


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## Jerad (Aug 24, 2005)

Daryl Baines said:


> Club,
> This was posted in Aug. I don't know if you have taken care of your sludge problem but if not there is a product go the web site Auto-Rx.com it will give you all the info you need good luck.



I'm in Canada and not sure which State you are in. Check on other auto discussion websites and see if anyone has posted useful information about these topics as applicable to your State. Or check with your State's BBB and they should be able to tell you what Laws are applicable to these kinds of situations. 

You're right. It could be any of a number of problems, none of which is tied to service intervals. If you pay the $700 to the dealer and they find it is not lack of maintenance, will Nissan reimburse the costs? If it turns out to be lack of maintenance, and there are no laws to assist you, you will be left suing the garage that serviced it. 

Of course, that Nissan is willing to pay you off indicates concern on their part. It is possible that your 3.5 has a latent defect that they are trying to cover-up without actually covering up. 

To investigate this issue, you can sign up to download alldata.com's technical service bulletins for about $25. If you find some that could be applicable to your vehicle and which, if not corrected, could result in the engine sludge, then tell them that they have to prove it wasn't the defect which caused the incident in light of the fact you have the service records. 

I suppose for anyone out there reading this - if you have a similar problem, and didn't have Nissan service the vehicle, get it auto-vac'd for $100 before taking it in on warranty service. That should clean the sludge out of the vehicle and make this problem a non-issue. 

Good luck.


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## lpenix (Oct 3, 2005)

Jerad said:


> I'm in Canada and not sure which State you are in. Check on other auto discussion websites and see if anyone has posted useful information about these topics as applicable to your State. Or check with your State's BBB and they should be able to tell you what Laws are applicable to these kinds of situations.
> 
> You're right. It could be any of a number of problems, none of which is tied to service intervals. If you pay the $700 to the dealer and they find it is not lack of maintenance, will Nissan reimburse the costs? If it turns out to be lack of maintenance, and there are no laws to assist you, you will be left suing the garage that serviced it.
> 
> ...


listen guy go to nissan club.com and search the altima forum, if im not mistaken, there was a guy with the same problem, and i think he finally got nissan to fix it. sorry guys not trying to get people to go over there, just trying to help.


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## DatsunZ (Dec 5, 2005)

lpenix said:


> listen guy go to nissan club.com and search the altima forum, if im not mistaken, there was a guy with the same problem, and i think he finally got nissan to fix it. sorry guys not trying to get people to go over there, just trying to help.


Smoking is from inside the combusion chamber for all sorts of reasons be it fuel and air not right ration, not ignoted right, but include oil leaking pass the ring into this area, or coolant some how getting into the chamber. Anyway, when it spits out/exhaust it dump and some of the gas appears as smoke. 

Sludge is degenerated motor oil be it cooked, mixed with coolant, got oxidized, ... but theat is in the area where lubrication oil goes and in the oil pan.

The smoking is not very directly linked to the sludge from the physical location/interaction. 

Sluge, provided that your oil is way too old and pass the age, however is more likely caused by other engine problems which by the way also expresses in the symptom of white smoking and rough running. 

On the other hand, an oil with sludge is no longer a good lubricant, dirregarding how it is formed, can cause wear in the cylinder rings which in turn cause oil to go into the combusion chamber to spit out oil fume as smoke, to cause lousy compression therefore smoke from bad combustion, etc. 

If you seriously cannot find any reason to accuse yourself for causing the sludge, then I will think you more likley has an inherent engine problem which cause the smoke as well as the sludge and not the other way round!!


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## Mercedes OM617 (Dec 10, 2006)

Daryl Baines said:


> Club,
> This was posted in Aug. I don't know if you have taken care of your sludge problem but if not there is a product go the web site Auto-Rx.com it will give you all the info you need good luck.


YOU ARE A WALKING LIVING ADVERT, Daryl!
I for one challenge you on your motives, and wonder why you seem to dedicated to pushing Auto-Rx? It looks like its an obsessin on your part, I wonder if you are affiliated with the company, or have someone you know that works there, its just down the coast about 100 miles form where you live, maybe that is just a coincidence????
Your testimonial is part of the Auto-Rx web site, is that too much or what?

But I'll let other members decide, after reviewing all the Forums you are member of and post ONLY about Auto-Rx
(Oh yes, I gave up searching any further too, Google has over 100 posts you made all over the planet, pushing Auto-Rx) here's a sample of posts and profiles:

http://www.nissanforums.com/j30-1989...ge-engine.html
http://www.hondapilot.org/forums/sho...ghlight=baines
Hello everyone is there something I can do to atleast reduce smoking at startup - Page 2 - SaturnFans Forums
http://www.passatworld.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=210527
http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...hlight=auto-rx
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...?userid=370266
http://www.nissanforums.com/members/daryl-baines.html
Cycle-Parts.com Forums - View Profile: Daryl Baines
http://www.bimmerwerkz.com/forum/member.php?u=21728

From his website:
""I have noticed an increase that went from 18 miles per gallon to 21 miles per gallon," wrote Daryl Baines of DeLand. "On my daily commute, coming home tonight, I did tank top up and got 27 MPG versus my normal 24.5! .. . Woo Woo ... Snake oil, I think not," wrote Steve On from Palmdale, Calif."

"AUTO-Rx 101 for Beginners
by Daryl Baines

Auto-Rx is your prescription for a healthy engine!

Like the modern-day miracle of time-released medications that travel through your bloodstream and rid your body of toxins as you go abou" Blah, blah, blah......

SPAM!


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## rps180 (Aug 20, 2005)

Back to the original post, it does sound like the dealership is trying to pass off responsibility of the engine damage off to you. However, it really sounds like a problem with the catalytic converter going bad, coming apart, and damaging the engine cylinder walls. That will account for the smoking. As for loss of power, I believe that the cat or cats came apart, pieces of it (and I bet alot) also flew down into the secondary cat and plugged it up partially. I have seen several like that.


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## Spddracer (Jan 31, 2003)

myeyeshurtfromtryingtoreadthispost


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