# BB SR20DET vs SR20VE



## lovemyser (Mar 14, 2003)

Ok There I got everyones attention lol.

I want to know which one would be the better all around sports machine.

I'm starting this thread for information So EVERYONE with factual information can respond.

Now I don't know a whole lot about either one of these most excellant pieces of japenease workmanship. I just want to know which would be the better ALL around driver.

Lets also keep score!

1 Daily Commuting Drivability
2 Gas Mileage
3 Relability
4 Power across the curve
5 Peak power

Example

1 VE
2 DET

After enough replys I will tally up all the scores,
And give you all the anwser.

THIS IS NOT CONCLUSIVE OR DEFINITIVE. 

ITs merely a learning and information curve for everyone.Besides I'm sure everyone wants to comment and get everyone elses opinon. Also remember its just an opinion so no hard feelings.

So let the games begin,


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## atomicbomberman (Jul 6, 2002)

just go to sr20deforum, they got loads of info on both engine and everyone can go read for themselves and decide for themselves.

my vote is DET, but VE sound very very attractive to me too.


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## lovemyser (Mar 14, 2003)

I understand that I can search somewhere else. I want to Know versuses each other nobody else has done this so It kinda narrows the search.


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## PrOxLaMuS© (Aug 11, 2002)

SR20VE Specifications:
SR20VE - 187hp CVT 6 speed Auto 97-2001 
SR20VE - 204hp 6 speed Manual 2001-Present 
SR20VET - 276hp AWD Turbo 2002-Present 


> _From www.gonzonx.com_
> One especially notable feature of this new engine is its Variable Valve Lift and Timing (VVL) system, which incorporates two intake and exhaust cams each for high and low speed operation. The VVL system uses three stage valve actuation control to optimize the opening/closing timing and lift of the intake and exhaust valves by switching between the low rpm cam and the high rpm cam according to the engine speed. Moreover, electronic control of intake and exhaust valve actuation enables the NEO VVL engine to generate maximum torque of 144.6 ft-lb @ 6,000 rpm and maximum power of 187.4 hp @ 7,000 rpm, for impressive torque and power output.
> 
> Engine performance is uniquely characterized by a flat torque curve over the entire engine speed range and quick, sharp throttle response. With the NEO VVL, drivers can experience a new world of sporty, powerful driving performance, whether traveling on a winding road or cruising at high speed on the highway.



SR20DET... BlueBird Specs:
Displacement: 1998cc (2.0 liter) 
Cam type: DOHC 16 valve, chain driven cam sprockets
Bore and stroke: 86mm x 86mm 
Compression: 8.5 : 1
Horsepower: 205ps at 6000rpm 
Torque: 203 ft/lbs at 4000rpm
Stock boost: 7 psi 
Injector size: 370cc/min 
Compressor: T-25, 60 trim 56mm BCI-1 comp. 
Turbine: T-25, 62 trim 53.8mm 0.64 A/R housing. 
Center Section: Journal bearings 



> 1 Daily Commuting Drivability
> 2 Gas Mileage
> 3 Relability
> 4 Power across the curve
> 5 Peak power


1.. either one.. doesnt matter.. turbo may be more fun to drive.
2.. Gas mileage? Who cares? Maybe 20-28 city.
3.. both Nissan... just be sure you get a good warrenty on the engine... but they are both SR20 engines and a very great and reliable engines.
4.. Look above....
5.. Look above...


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

Refer to http://www.gonzonx.com for some dyno chart figures on the SR20VE. 

Plese search before asking. Questions such as yours have been answered many, MANY times.


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## PrOxLaMuS© (Aug 11, 2002)

yep.. SEARCH..
i'm siitin here doin other people's homework....
it took me 7 minutes to find that information... all from this forum and the SR20DEforum..
if i can do it, anyone can


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## lovemyser (Mar 14, 2003)

AGAIN FOR THE SECOND TIME 
I have searced many many times and I know plenty about both engines.

I was merely wanting everyone elses opinion

If I here "search" again I'm gonna scream.

READ my first thread this is NOT info for me. geez

And again NOBODY has done a comparasion like this before.If so I will retract my tread and opt to the already established one.


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## sr20racer (Jun 29, 2002)

DET


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## insanestvtop (Dec 3, 2002)

sr20vet, as tim allen would say, "MORE POWER," but other than that, mostly what it depends on is how much money you got in your pocket and how good of connections you have to determine which to get, but if i had the $$$$ and the right connection i would take a sr20vet


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

First, why compare an na engine to a turbocharged one? Its a given than the DET will have more potential over the VE.

What you need to compare is the DET vs. the VET, so you're on the level and have some sort of a solid, common foundation for a worthwhile comparison.

Also, what are you really looking for, facts or opinions? You first ask for facts, and now you want opinions. Let me compare those two terms for you first. Facts are facts. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

To learn about the DET, go to http://www.sr20deforum.com. 

To learn about the VE(T), go to http://www.gonzonx.com.

Read the facts for yourself and come to your own conclusion. Don't rely on opinions to make your decisions.


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## lovemyser (Mar 14, 2003)

> Read the facts for yourself and come to your own conclusion. Don't rely on opinions to make your decisions.


1 LOL who said I was making a decision on opinions
2 I DID ask for opinions in a unbiased factual way.
3 I wouldn't won't your opinion anyway.
4 You don't like the thread or the options I gave...Don't reply.

Geez why do I get so much flak ITS MY THREAD. You don't like it start your on.

WOW when I ask for opinions I SURE do get'um


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

In my opinion, for a purely daily driver, I'd go with the VE.It has a little extra complicatin in the valvetrain, but nothing like the added complexity of a turbo system.Turbo engines require more frequent maintenance, and if you are like me,maintenance gets skipped a little too often.Do that with the turbo and it will kill the turbo quckly.If you plan to race it, the turbo engine offers more ultimate potential,but you have to remember the maintenance-synthetic oil every 2500 miles to be safe.The VET has the best power potential from a smooth streetable engine,but it is expensive and maintenance intensive.


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## lovemyser (Mar 14, 2003)

Why can't everyone give a reply like "himilefrontier"

Nice,perfect ,short but to the point


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

Because not everyone likes to answer the actual question at hand rather than go off on a tirade about peripheral issues that may or may not actually add to the discussion at hand.Okay, I do that too.It seems however, that some threads will consist of:12 posts 3 of which answer the actual question, 4 of them go off topic and the remaining 5 will either be people telling the poster to do a search, or not ask for other people's opinions.


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

I gave you a simple answer. Look at what you want, refer to those sites that I mentioned, and come up with a conclusion that fits your needs. What was so complicated about what I said? I dont care if you dont want my opinion. You asked for an opinion with facts (reference to factual sites is a fact in itself), and you SURE did get one.


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## lovemyser (Mar 14, 2003)

There he goes again...

Did I say I was looking for a conclusion and basing my facts off of others opinions.

I think your the only one NOT getting it. Hey just join the crowd


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## toolapcfan (Jul 10, 2002)

Based on your criteria the DET is doomed from the get go:

1-4 Are naturally going to be NA dominant. Turbo's aren't linear, they're less reliable, they're going to suck more gas as a result of making more power, and the less friendly driveability of a turbo is a result of the power not being linear. So it sounds to me like you're leaning toward the VE from the get go. However, other issues have been neglected. Any DET is going to give you more bang for the buck, although VE's have dropped significantly in price fairly recently. I agree that comparing a VET to a DET would be a more fair comparison. The biggest questions in my mind for the VET are 1) availability, and 2)price. And in that order for a good reason. I have yet to find anyone who can even get a VET, and nobody seems to have a clue as to what they'd cost. I'd love to have a VET, but I'm not banking my hopes on one, so I plan to get an Avenir DET since it's the biggest bang for the buck DET you can buy, although that's argueable considering the GTiR DET. When the time comes if I can get a VET without breaking the bank, then I'll definately go that route, otherwise it's Avenir for me. Here's how I made that conclusion for myself: I have no plans to stay NA, and since Nissan made a few turboed engines themselves, I'm not going to presume that I know more than them and turbo an NA engine. DET's were built to be turboed, they have different internals than NA SR's do. And with the lower compression of the DET, I have a higher HP ceiling before running into detonation. A turboed NA would take more work to equal a DET. The Avenir is one of the newest DET's running off the line from '96 to the present if I'm not mistaken. It makes similar HP/TQ numbers to the GTiR DET but with a T25, instead of a T28. This is probably due to the improved manifold design, but I figure if it came make that kind of power with a T25, then strapping a T28 or larger tubo on is going to make more horespower than another DET that makes less power with the same or even larger tubo. Plus the Avenir, like the BB DET's have the more favorable fitment and parts compatibility with the NA USDM SR's. Now I know that the Avenir lacks the TMIC and IC piping, however I would not want a TMIC, nor would I bother front mounting that pewny IC. So other than reselling the TMIC and IC piping, other DET's have no incentive in my mind. With all that being said, I think the VE is the way to go if you want to stay NA or don't mind some of the risks, costs, and limitations involved in turboing an NA engine later on. I think the VET is the engine to be sought after if you're wanting turbo. However I think the GTiR and Avenir DET's are certainly worthwhile stand ins.


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## lovemyser (Mar 14, 2003)

I was under the impression that a sr20de Turbo upgrade was a very good option.
Tho not as able to handle as much power as the det, tuned properly it would make more. 
JGY told me just a t25 blubird upgrade on my existing JDM DE would give me 215 to 220 whp. Thats with a ECU of course.
And it was only 1400.00 with a JWT ecu and all there custom piping. ALthough I would rather have a t28.
They also have the t28 kit for 2300.00 that comes with hotshot FMIC ,custom fuel rail and 440 injectors I believe. Is it just me or are those darn good prices.Order from them and you can have it installed and driving in one day.

Can not a de make 100hp per cylinder and be safe?


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

A DE would not be as reliable as a DET at the 400 hp level.This is because the shortblock is not as suited to boost as the DET is.The DET has the piston coolers,lower compression and probably some other internal strengthening.However, at that power level, you would want stronger rods and low compression forged pistons as well as maybe even o ringing the block to avoid blown head gaskets.


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## toolapcfan (Jul 10, 2002)

"I was under the impression that a sr20de Turbo upgrade was a very good option."

Because the SR20DE is internally balanced and built so well it does respond well to mods and turbos, even if the mileage is high. However, due to the higher compression of the USDM and JDM SR20DE's they are going to hit detonation quicker at say 9 psi, while it might take 11 psi in a DET before detonation.

"...Tho not as able to handle as much power as the det, tuned properly it would make more." 

Sure it could make more than a DET, but the DET can also make more. A DET will make more power with less effort and money than a turboed DE.

"JGY told me just a t25 blubird upgrade on my existing JDM DE would give me 215 to 220 whp. Thats with a ECU of course.
And it was only 1400.00 with a JWT ecu and all there custom piping. ALthough I would rather have a t28.
They also have the t28 kit for 2300.00 that comes with hotshot FMIC ,custom fuel rail and 440 injectors I believe. Is it just me or are those darn good prices.Order from them and you can have it installed and driving in one day."

Why pay $1400 for a kit when you can buy a DET for that much?

"Can not a de make 100hp per cylinder and be safe?"

Not without significant internal work.


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## lovemyser (Mar 14, 2003)

> Why pay $1400 for a kit when you can buy a DET for that much?


If you find a "good" det for that much.

And that does come with a 600 dollar ECU from jwt.
And It comes with all the custom stuff like lines and b pipe and o2 sensor bungs,air filter,everything you need for startup.

Like I said thats a 1 day install. Not so for the det swap. I would think the det swap would be much worse.

You can get BB dets from ebay for 1299.00 But I have heard bad things from them. Like cracked IC and things like that.

As an added bonus ,your getting it from JGY a very respected company especially for customer satisfaction.


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## RED_DET (Jan 5, 2003)

Here are the differences between the DET and the DE: 

The DET has oil squirter piston coolers 
The DET has a bigger oil pump. 
The DET has a different front pulley. 
The DET has lower compression pistons (8.3:1 vs 9.5:1). 
The DET has bigger injectors. 
The DET has direct ignition. 
The DET has a variable intake cam, runs retarded at idle, advanced mid range and retarded top end. 
The DET has mechanical shim in bucket type lifters with a slightly bigger in duration exhaust cam

Guys with turboed DE's are making over 400whp with stock internals. A turboed car is not less reliable than NA. I do no maintenance at all with my SR20DET setup except change the oil every 3k miles and can get almost the same gas mileage as I did when I was NA. You can pick up Blue Bird motors from JGY for 1600 and GTiR's for 1800. The swap for me was one day. 

VE's are 1800 and you have to setup an igniton that will kick the solenoids over for VVL. The VE's are not the same as the DE motors. Exhaust manifolds are different along with some other things. VE's are pretty rare due to the possiblity of high cost of maintenance. You will not see a VET for years to come, so start saving now. Ask yourself how many VE's do you hear about running around?

1400 for a turn key turbo setup is a good deal for a low mileage DE motor. Considering a DET is 1600 with no 550 ECU or the down time of weeks waiting for a JWT ecu. Thats a savings of over 800 there including shipping. Some guys have learned to used S-AFC and E-manage, but if you are into tuning then maybe thats for you, but plug and play seems less hassile free.

If you are looking to making mild power(210-280whp) range, daily driver, than a DE would work just as well as a DET. Hell with 230-240 whp it is already crazy. I coudn't imagine 300+, that would be down right sick.


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## kesi24 (Mar 25, 2003)

I can speak for myself because i have both a det and ve. The Ve is more for daily driver.Its just like a de , More reliable .My det i drive on the weekends.Both will cost about the same .There are alot of hidden cost in a turbo motor ..like Downpipe ,clutch ,ecu Ect...kesi24


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