# Sticky  Is there hope after RF package?



## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

OK...I'm sorry in advance if this is somewhere on the boards, I looked...And couldn't find my specific question...

Ok, I am once again wandering into the unknown realm of car audio. I have the stock RF package that came with the 04 spec V...I got it because it came with the car...Now i've gotten a taste of bass and would love to beef up my system with a new head unit, bigger subs [ sony xplods? 12s] and I guess a bigger amp...Do i have to trash [sell] my whole current system or is there things that are salvagable?

Can someone give me a nice list of car audio, like which subs and such...basically i'm in love with this type of system...looks hot, probably sounds badass...

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/597777

Can someone at least point me in the right direction??

Audio gods please help


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## 200sxser96 (Nov 8, 2003)

maybe a pioneer head unit(dehp360, i sell it for 179.99everday price) it has all the features you will need, possilbly want. As far as subs and amp, depends on your buget.
I like the planet audio subs and amps, also the new kenwood amps are pretty nice for a smaller buget. if you have a larger budget, you could go kicker compvr or solobaric, and kicker amps, the box would really depend or how loud you want it and what kinda music you listen to.


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

u will have to ditch that whole system....but DONT get anything sony..especially not subs

do u want SPL or SQL?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

You have a few choices

If you just want an amp and sub you can get a line output converter (LOC) and use the stock speaker wires to send the signal to the amp. Everything will work like it does stock, except you'll have a sub in addition to the stock system.

If you get a headunit things start getting more complicated. If you wire it up normally all the interior speakers will be double amped, the only way to effectively fix this is to rewire all the interior speakers (run your own speaker wire from behind the headunit to all 4 speakers). Then you just run rcas from the headunit preouts to the amp and that works fine.

Also, Sony sucks, as does just about everything else at Best Buy and Circuit City. Please stop looking there for your own good. If you give us a budget we can design something for you that will sound much better than Sony, Kenwood, RF, *insert other kiddy boomer brand here* for the price.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> You have a few choices
> 
> If you just want an amp and sub you can get a line output converter (LOC) and use the stock speaker wires to send the signal to the amp. Everything will work like it does stock, except you'll have a sub in addition to the stock system.



hey sr20dem0n, i'm back with the stupid audio questions...

first of all what's SQl and SpL? I'm completely a newbie in the audio field...

The problem is...I already have a sub and amp...What came with the RF package...a 8in RF sub and some unknown amp...I think it's like a 300watt system or soemthing...I was told the last time i was interested in redoing my audio that the wiring would be all funny about the head unit... and then setting up everything so my sub still works...

I have like a grocery list of things i want to do to my car, so limited budget...I was thinking of getting new rims...which aren't cheap...

so let's say...two senarios...

1) Keep the head unit, upgrade the sub and amp [i'm guessing you HAVE to upgrade the amp...]

and

2) New head unit, New Subs [ preferably like 2 10s or 12s biig thump] and i guess once again new amp

For a budget....i'm looking at no more than $300-400...christmas is a long way away and so is my birthday...and money from my job is paying for the car itself

Anybody in the MD,PA or VA that wants to install it for me..? haha


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## Bumpin (Feb 18, 2003)

I think the best thing to do would be keeping your stock head unit, getting a LOC ($20) and get (1) 10 inch JL Audio W6 v2 with a JL amp, and you will have more bass than you need. Your also gonna need to spend ($40) on a 4 gauge amp kit.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Bumpin240sx said:


> I think the best thing to do would be keeping your stock head unit, getting a LOC ($20) and get (1) 10 inch JL Audio W6 v2 with a JL amp, and you will have more bass than you need. Your also gonna need to spend ($40) on a 4 gauge amp kit.


So the LOC is a wiring kit/thing?

how big is the amp? like wattage?


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So i'm searching cut and paste from what sub you said and I can't find anything....

10 inch JL Audio W6 v2 is there another language it's in? haha

what i mean is what does the letters and numbers stand for>

10in sub by JL Audio....then i'm lost


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> So i'm searching cut and paste from what sub you said and I can't find anything....
> 
> 10 inch JL Audio W6 v2 is there another language it's in? haha


www.tweeter.com

I have some buddies at the Towson Tweeter and their good guys who know their stuff.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Ok...i'm doing some research...What kind of amp would i need...I"m reading fairly good reviews about JL Audio...everyone agree?

"slash" series or "e" series....ha


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> Ok...i'm doing some research...What kind of amp would i need...I"m reading fairly good reviews about JL Audio...everyone agree?
> 
> "slash" series or "e" series....ha


If it is JL or Kicker, you can't go wrong.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> If it is JL or Kicker, you can't go wrong.


holy crap the amps are expensive....any way to salvage mine??


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> holy crap the amps are expensive....any way to salvage mine??


No, you are going to want to trash your whole system for a new one. Good audio isn't cheap to get with a warranty. Kicker is much less expensive than JL; the Kicker KX series are the best bang for a buck. The Kicker SoloBaric L7 series is a thunderous subwoofer. If you get a loud sub, you are going to need to get better component speakers or they shall be drowned in bass.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> No, you are going to want to trash your whole system for a new one. Good audio isn't cheap to get with a warranty. Kicker is much less expensive than JL; the Kicker KX series are the best bang for a buck. The Kicker SoloBaric L7 series is a thunderous subwoofer. If you get a loud sub, you are going to need to get better component speakers or they shall be drowned in bass.


damn my love of bass....so expensive...so little money so much to spend it on...

So...Can i get a package...Sub and Amp...and i guess components?? What i mean is someone pair a good sub with the appropriate amp and an approximate price?


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> damn my love of bass....so expensive...so little money so much to spend it on...
> 
> So...Can i get a package...Sub and Amp...and i guess components?? What i mean is someone pair a good sub with the appropriate amp and an approximate price?


What price figure are you looking to spend?


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> What price figure are you looking to spend?


don't laugh....

less than 400

Now what do i do about an enclosure...I like whatever is in my car now...It's not in a box...the speaker face is open...good bass.

it's like in a holder..


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> don't laugh....
> 
> less than 400
> 
> ...


You want to spend 400 between wires, rcas, box, sub and amp?


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> You want to spend 400 between wires, rcas, box, sub and amp?


uhhh.... yes?


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

but seriously....I know it sucks to do thing half assed... but I simply can NOT do more than 400... because I already have a sub and an amp...so people [my mom] will be like "why are you wasting your money blah blah blah.." 

I was hoping a simple...add a new sub or something...


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

guess it's not that easy huh


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> but seriously....I know it sucks to do thing half assed... but I simply can NOT do more than 400... because I already have a sub and an amp...so people [my mom] will be like "why are you wasting your money blah blah blah.."
> 
> I was hoping a simple...add a new sub or something...


No, the stock amp does not push much power at all. You wont be able to get a tremendous amount of bass for 400 and dynamat is a must on the SE-R...mine rattles even with dynamat like their is no tomorrow. Maybe a box system by an online company of a single Kicker Comp VR packing in a box for 300 and then you can spend the other 100 on wires and such.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> No, the stock amp does not push much power at all. You wont be able to get a tremendous amount of bass for 400 and dynamat is a must on the SE-R...mine rattles even with dynamat like their is no tomorrow. Maybe a box system by an online company of a single Kicker Comp VR packing in a box for 300 and then you can spend the other 100 on wires and such.


What's a dynamat?

So what's...in your opinion the total cost for a GOOD system...like what you were talking about...either JL AUDIO or Kicker how much would you estimate?

technically it's not a "Stock" amp...it's part of the RF package...so it's got more than normal wattage...then again i know nothing about this stuff


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> What's a dynamat?
> 
> So what's...in your opinion the total cost for a GOOD system...like what you were talking about...either JL AUDIO or Kicker how much would you estimate?


Dynamat is a material that absorbs sound and keeps all of your internal parts from vibrating and sounding like crap. For my system, I paid 500 for a floormodel KX1200.1 that normally costs 800, 200 for a Kicker 12 inch solobaric L7, 250 for the box, 150 for wires, 80 for a capacitor, 200 in dynamat, and 100 for Optima Yellow Top Battery. I got all those parts as I went along.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Rockford Fosgate-powered AM/FM/CD audio system (300 watts) 
Nine speakers (seven locations), including 8" subwoofer 
^^^
That's what i have now...damn it's only an 8"...


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

If you build the box yourself you save cash. If not, good boxes cost a lot and can make the difference between a great sound and crap sub.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> Dynamat is a material that absorbs sound and keeps all of your internal parts from vibrating and sounding like crap. For my system, I paid 500 for a floormodel KX1200.1 that normally costs 800, 200 for a Kicker 12 inch solobaric L7, 250 for the box, 150 for wires, 80 for a capacitor, 200 in dynamat, and 100 for Optima Yellow Top Battery. I got all those parts as I went along.


daaaammmmnnn 150 for wires?? Do you have pictures of your system? Love to see it...

So looks like i'm screwed...man that sucks...980...i bet that thing is kickin...


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> If you build the box yourself you save cash. If not, good boxes cost a lot and can make the difference between a great sound and crap sub.


my sub now isn't in a box...i like the way it sounds compared to a friend who has a 10 in a box...mine seems cleaner


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

nevermind about the pic...i see the cardomain ones..


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> my sub now isn't in a box...i like the way it sounds compared to a friend who has a 10 in a box...mine seems cleaner


Probably because they have a poor sub or a crappy box.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> Probably because they have a poor sub or a crappy box.


Don't know...all i know is his gives me a headache after like a minute...while i can drive for hours with mine cranked up...

so like walmart boxes are bad...


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> Don't know...all i know is his gives me a headache after like a minute...while i can drive for hours with mine cranked up...
> 
> so like walmart boxes are bad...


Correct, prettymuch anything from walmart is bad.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> Correct, prettymuch anything from walmart is bad.


haha...hey, but they have good prices...and good deal on a box of motoroil..


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## Bumpin (Feb 18, 2003)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> but seriously....I know it sucks to do thing half assed... but I simply can NOT do more than 400... because I already have a sub and an amp...so people [my mom] will be like "why are you wasting your money blah blah blah.."
> 
> I was hoping a simple...add a new sub or something...


What I would suggest is keeping that $400, putting it in a savings, then slowly start adding to it. Once you get around $600 or $700 then go after the system thing. That way you can get everything all done at once with good quality equipment. Its not good to half ass systems. Cuz if you do, you will be pissed once you have more bass than mids and high's, then your gonna wanna take your bass back out or turn it down back to the way your old stuff sounded. Save up more money then go after a system, its just a wiser thing to do.


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Bumpin240sx said:


> What I would suggest is keeping that $400, putting it in a savings, then slowly start adding to it. Once you get around $600 or $700 then go after the system thing. That way you can get everything all done at once with good quality equipment. Its not good to half ass systems. Cuz if you do, you will be pissed once you have more bass than mids and high's, then your gonna wanna take your bass back out or turn it down back to the way your old stuff sounded. Save up more money then go after a system, its just a wiser thing to do.


If you can only do 400, that is probably the best idea. I got my first system from Walmart and blew nearly everything the first week. Anyone who gets a sub no matter what they say will want loud bass and love to turn it up.


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Here is what you could do for a little more

Amp - 230

subs - 125

Crap box for time being until you can buy a better one - 30

Monster 8 guage power cables, you may want to go 4 - 35

Good RCA Cables - 30

You are up to 450 with the basics. You may want to go back and get Dynamat, a Cap, and maybe a better battery. But something along this would make a nice setup (minus the box) that would have a good amount of thump and be very clean and reliable.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Ah shit where to begin
I work for 2hrs, come back and the thread is already 3 pages long....

K, it sounds like you want loud with reasonable quality. This should push you towards a single ported 12 or 15. With your budget ($400 for sub, amp, box and wiring is it?), I would look to spend $70 on a box (unless you can build your own), $60 on wiring/LOC, that leaves $270 for a sub and amp. I would spend about $150 on a sub, and the rest on a budget amp. Subwoofer brands to check out for what you want are Resonant Engineering and Kicker, amp brands are Profile (the California line, www.millionbuy.com has good prices), and maybe JBL or Phoenix Gold Octane. Ignore JL completely, they don't give what you're looking for and you'll just spend way more than you should for what you want.

Your stock sub is in a box, that's what the plastic black thing is. It will be the same way with a new box except it will be made out of wood and most likely carpetted (unless you build your own). Your stock amp is crap and won't be able to power anything worthwhile, the best you can do is just leave it alone and remove the stock sub so it doesn't take up any room.

Forget about a capacitor as they're worthless, you can probably ignore sound deadening for now, maybe later you'll decide you want it and you can go from there(Dynamat is one brand, and also happens to be 2-3 times more expensive than anything else, and the quality isn't any better than the others either. Other brands are B-Quiet, Rammat, SecondSkin, and Edead). You'll want a 4 or 8 gauge wiring kit (most likely 4ga) and a set of decent rcas. Don't get Monster Cable, they're noisier than other brands (according to numerous independent comparisons) and also cost a helluva lot more. If you don't think the rcas that are included with the wiring kit are adequate (they're normally on the cheap side), one of the inexpensive Stinger rcas would work well, and they're pretty cheap on ebay. If you have any questions go ahead and ask, but I probably won't respond until late tonight when I get back home


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Monster is noiseir than other brands? Get outta here?!

I have used Monster at home, work, and car for years and have always liked their sound more than anything else, especially for home audio.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Wow, thanks...

so those 2 10" subs look like a good deal...should I go for it? It ends soon...

I like that setup...

What kind of amp do I want...like amperage?


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

I say yea, u cant go wrong with kicker comp vrs, but make sure you have the golden approval from sr20dem0n, he knows his car audio.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> I say yea, u cant go wrong with kicker comp vrs, but make sure you have the golden approval from sr20dem0n, he knows his car audio.


yeah i know! I"ve talked with him about other audio things...

so i'm looking at a Profile CA600M California series 600W mono amp...is that right?


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

ALso...What makes a good box? like you pointed to that 30$ one...obviously since it doesn't cost much...but what else?

so 4 gauge wiring kit...is this ok?
http://www.millionbuy.com/hitkit4.html

and another question....what are tweeters? Like what do they do?


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> ALso...What makes a good box? like you pointed to that 30$ one...obviously since it doesn't cost much...but what else?


The type of wood, the thickness of the wood, the sealing, the size being made to the subwoofer's specs and the tuning, I think I covered them all.



Yellowsentragirl said:


> so 4 gauge wiring kit...is this ok?
> http://www.millionbuy.com/hitkit4.html


If it has RCAs, it will work. SR20 and I are going to disagree but IMO Monster is the way to go. Cheaper wires result in audible distortion.



Yellowsentragirl said:


> and another question....what are tweeters? Like what do they do?


Tweeters are the seperate or attached part to speakers that account for highs. Highs are as in trebble. They aren't related to subs. In fact, they are the opposite of subs.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

NickZac said:


> Monster is noiseir than other brands? Get outta here?!
> 
> I have used Monster at home, work, and car for years and have always liked their sound more than anything else, especially for home audio.


I've talked to multiple people who went from other brands to Monster, or from Monster to other brands, and every one of them said that with the Monster cables the sound was less dynamic (everything kind of muddied together) and had more noise. I haven't tried them myself, so I can't really tell you more, I'm just saying what I've heard.

Those subs would work, but if you're going for a cheap/loud setup then a pair of 10's is really the opposite of what you want to do, ESPECIALLY sealed. They'll have roughly the same displacement as a single 12, cost nearly twice as much, require twice as much power, take up more room, and won't play as low 90% of the time. I would really look more towards a single ported 12 or 15, you'll get much louder for your money with a nearly inaudible drop in sound quality. The Phoenix Gold Ti15's are on a huge sale right now until they clear them out, one of those would be a good choice. Keep in mind, this one sub will sound better than the CompVRs, it's cheaper than them, and it would take 4 of the CompVR 10's to beat it in pure output.
http://www.cbrstereo.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=501

Amp selection will come after the sub selection, you have to pick an amp to match the impedence of the sub(s) that you choose.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> Keep in mind, this one sub will sound better than the CompVRs, it's cheaper than them, and it would take 4 of the CompVR 10's to beat it in pure output.
> http://www.cbrstereo.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=501
> 
> Amp selection will come after the sub selection, you have to pick an amp to match the impedence of the sub(s) that you choose.


Thanks...I guess the system building takes time...

how much power is required for a sub? Obviously it depends...but is there like a 15" goes with this wattage...and a 10 goes with this...


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So i'm doing some research...and it looks like I could get a setup alot cheaper...with the one 15"

Box $40

AMP? $70

SUB $99

Installation doodads $30


That's about it right? So...for 260 or so...is that a nice system? Enough thump? Or will I regret it later?


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> So i'm doing some research...and it looks like I could get a setup alot cheaper...with the one 15"
> 
> Box $40
> 
> ...


Their is no way that amp can push 600 RMS. Maybe 600 peak with a high regulated power supply but not RMS. And SR20 and I will debate on monster. Ive used Streetwires and RF and the build quality of Monster seems superior. It sounds clear on my SoloL7 but then again, it isnt exactly a crystal clear sub.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> Their is no way that amp can push 600 RMS. Maybe 600 peak with a high regulated power supply but not RMS. And SR20 and I will debate on monster. Ive used Streetwires and RF and the build quality of Monster seems superior. It sounds clear on my SoloL7 but then again, it isnt exactly a crystal clear sub.



Uh i know nothing about amps...so what kind of wattage do I need?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> So i'm doing some research...and it looks like I could get a setup alot cheaper...with the one 15"
> 
> Box $40
> 
> ...


Which amp is that? (I can't check at work, I hate firewalls)

And to power that sub well you need 6-800rms @ 4ohm.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

NickZac said:


> And SR20 and I will debate on monster. Ive used Streetwires and RF and the build quality of Monster seems superior. It sounds clear on my SoloL7 but then again, it isnt exactly a crystal clear sub.


Well I'm not talking about the build quality, from what I can tell by looking at them they do appear to be built well (though I have heard lots of people say the wires like to pull out of the terminals). Unless it's built like crap, build quality doesn't really have anything to do with signal transmission either.


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

Looks like I jumped in a bit late. I'll just add in my 02c for the hell of it.

Let's jump off the subject of Bass and talk about mids/highs. I'm not completely sure about the RF package, but if it's anything like the Bose package in the Maxima, you also have to dump the mids. Even if the mids are salvagable, most stock speakers suck and require upgrade. This leaves the question of what speakers to use and how do you plan on powering the mids? Upgrading the mids is pretty important to keep good balance, but it once again ups the price. A good set (4) of entry-level components/coax could add on another $2-300 and if you wish to power them by an external amp (like I do with a JL 300/4), that can add on another $200+.

Now if you're jus Bass hungry, I recommend for the time being, upgrade the HU, yank all the sub components from the RF package, run the new Bass off an external amp and try to run the stock mids off the new HU. You will eventually want to upgrade the mids and most likely power for the mids b/c an internal 45x4 or 50x4 amp is just a pure waste, it may as well say 25x4 b/c the power from a HU is shitty.

In case it wasn't answered before, SQ is sound quality, SPL is sound pressure level (db). IMO, going for SPL alone is just plain stupid, unless you are willing to put $1000s in the your car's audio and fry components on a regular basis in the name of competition. SQ is where it's at when it comes to car audio. I like to enjoy my music, not break my trunk off it's hinges. That doesn't mean you can't have SPL when you go SQ, but keep in mind, this is the setup you're going to be jammin to when you're cruising around. You don't want your rattling licence plate to sound better than your speakers.

Here are my recommendations for components:
>HU: only Alpine (maybe Clarion or Pioneer's Premier line)
>Amps: I'm a fan of JL for my personal use, but the only ones I know much about are the higher level amps like Xtant and McIntosh.
>Subs: I think some good entry level subs would either be JL (2 w3's or 1 w6), Xtant, or Infinity Perfect.
>Mids: Once again, entry level. Try Alpine, Infinity, Boston Accoustics or maybe a lower end MB Quart (MB's are a bit too fancy for me, not to mention the tweeters could break glass).
>RCA wires: Low-profile Monster RCAs are my fav. Very easy to run and very well made.
>power wires: jus get an amp kit at any audio store. Any 4AWG wire you see in the 100ft spools is no better than the next.
>speaker wires: hell, I jus got some 12-14AWG speaker wire a radio shack and it works fine.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> Which amp is that? (I can't check at work, I hate firewalls)
> 
> And to power that sub well you need 6-800rms @ 4ohm.


Pheonix Digital PD-392 2CH 600W amp.....

What's rms? how do you know the ohms? oh wait...i see it says it...well...that won't work then...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> Pheonix Digital PD-392 2CH 600W amp.....
> 
> What's rms? how do you know the ohms? oh wait...i see it says it...well...that won't work then...



With AC (music) power, you basically have 2 kinds of ratings, peak and rms. Peak is pretty much worthless, because it can mean 2 things. It could either be the maximum amplitude of the power wave (it looks like a sine wave), this is the electrical definition of peak power and it's the best since it's consistent and accurate. They can also take "peak" to mean the max power that the amplifier is capable of achieving if struck by lighting, if the company takes this interpretation, they can really slap any number they want up there and they can get away with it (it's a loophole where they can get away with false advertising). This is the reason you see "1200 watt" Legacys and "2500 watt" Rockford Fosgate amps that really put out 200 watts. Because of this whole mess, you can't really trust peak power ratings, instead you look at the rms (root-mean-square) power. This is basically the average power and there's no way to "misinterpret" the definition and put a fake value here. All amps will make their rms power unless they're just plain shitty amps that will overheat before they can. Always look at the rms power when you're dealing with speakers and amps.


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

sr20dem0n said:


> Well I'm not talking about the build quality, from what I can tell by looking at them they do appear to be built well (though I have heard lots of people say the wires like to pull out of the terminals). Unless it's built like crap, build quality doesn't really have anything to do with signal transmission either.


I have never heard audible distortion from my monster home products and wouldnt a better build quality help ensure an oxygen free cable?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

NickZac said:


> I have never heard audible distortion from my monster home products and wouldnt a better build quality help ensure an oxygen free cable?


You normally can't hear distortion until you've heard it back to back with a system that has no distortion, meaning if you've always used Monster in your home system, you would never know that the signal is less "pure" since you've never heard it on something else to compare. Another way to think of it is this, if you grew up only listening to mids and highs and never once heard or heard of a subwoofer, you would never know that music has any information below ~80-100hz. It's only until you hear the music with a sub that you realize how much you're missing by not having one.

Also, the build quality has almost nothing to do with the cable being oxygen free, and being oxygen free has almost nothing to do with signal transmission, it only slows down corrosion. Of course a huge amount of corrosion will screw up the signal, but your rcas aren't going to rust into nothingness inside your car so that doesn't really matter. And besides, nearly all rcas and audio cable in general is oxygen free.


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

sr20dem0n said:


> You normally can't hear distortion until you've heard it back to back with a system that has no distortion, meaning if you've always used Monster in your home system, you would never know that the signal is less "pure" since you've never heard it on something else to compare. Another way to think of it is this, if you grew up only listening to mids and highs and never once heard or heard of a subwoofer, you would never know that music has any information below ~80-100hz. It's only until you hear the music with a sub that you realize how much you're missing by not having one.
> 
> Also, the build quality has almost nothing to do with the cable being oxygen free, and being oxygen free has almost nothing to do with signal transmission, it only slows down corrosion. Of course a huge amount of corrosion will screw up the signal, but your rcas aren't going to rust into nothingness inside your car so that doesn't really matter. And besides, nearly all rcas and audio cable in general is oxygen free.


Well your the audio man so I shall take your word.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Do you work in an audio store or something? Where'd you learn all this?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

NickZac said:


> Well your the audio man so I shall take your word.


I'm just going off of what I've heard, I wish I had actually heard them personally back to back with something else, but I haven't. You really have more of a reason to have an opinion than I do, you actually own them. If you like them that's all that matters, and it may be that the people I heard this from had a bit of the placebo effect going on, either way they should be built well, and any loss in sound quality with them or another brand should be inaudible when dealing with subs anyway so it doesn't really matter.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> Do you work in an audio store or something? Where'd you learn all this?



Little here little there
I'm in my 3rd year of electrical engineering and I spend too much time on www.soundillusions.net and www.caraudioforum.com so that explains most of it

I finally got home and looked at that amp. I've never heard of that brand, it really seems like they're trying to leech off of Phoenix Gold's reputation, and I don't have any respect for companies that do that. Another option for an amp would be the Profile California CA800. Out of all the extremely inexpensive amps out there, these are most likely the strongest and most well built, and they actually put out their rated power.

With that amp, that PG I linked to earlier (or a kicker 15L7 or something), and shipping, that leaves maybe $100-150 for wiring and a LOC which should be plenty. Look for any generic 4 gauge wiring kit, make sure it has around 20ft of power, 5ft of ground (make sure both are 4 gauge), an inline fuse holder with a fuse larger than 60 amp, 20ft of remote wire, and some speaker wire. Check out the David Navone line output converters, the N-777 or N-7V would work well for what you're looking for.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Hellooooo i'm back on....after a month hiatus

I saw your setup demon and it looks kick ass...i'm back in the market and want piece together a kick ass system....I have a bigger budget this time...

I see you have an amp for your components and your sub... is that just because you have really high grade stuff, by that i mean powerful, or is it an audiophile thing?

I think i can bring my budget to about 1000 now, i've been working which means paychecks and more money...plus christmas and my birthday will come again so i could possibly bum a piece for that....

so, god of audio, what do you suggest?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

welcome back, I was wondering what had happened with this thread

Hm, up to 1000 now? That will buy you a nice sub setup and some pretty decent highs to go with it. Is there any chance you can do the install yourself if we kind of walk you through it? If not you're going to spend probably $200 of that budget just on install, if you can manage to do it yourself or get a friend to do it then that money can go towards better equipment.

And any half-decent set of components will need to be amped to realize their true potential. Even a decent 50x2 amp will be worlds better than using the headunit to power them. You can use the headunit to power the rears though, so you can save money there.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

That would be awesome if you could walk me through it...I don't know much about wiring and stuff but my friend has rewired his car to switch it from manual windows to power windows...and mirrors and stuff. He has wiring know how...so it could be done....definietly would like to put the 200 towards actual gear...

I like your head unit. might go with the 33 instead of the 35....save the $100 or so...

So what would put together with the current price range? stay with the Resonant Engineering and Kicker for the subs? or can it be upgraded even more....

i've realized that it was insane to try to put a "Good" system together with 400$....I'd really love to have a fiberglass enclosure...I saw a few threads about how to's....how much if you don't do it yourself?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Yeah the 33 is an awesome unit, it has all the features of the 35 minus the display. If you're on a budget I don't think the display on the 35 would be worth the extra $100.

So if you went with the 33 (the 31 would also be a good choice), that's what, like $300? Add in about $100 for wiring, then maybe some CDT classics from www.thezeb.com and a JBL 80.2 (just picking things out of thin air) would work for your front stage. You could stick with a Resonant Engineering 12" SE, a JBL 600.1 for a sub amp and a add in a box. It might push your $1000 a bit, but without pricing everything out there's no way to be sure.

And I think you meant a fiberglass box, not carbon fiber. Carbon fiber could be done, but you definitely couldn't do it yourself and it would cost a TON. Fiberglass will take some time to do, but from what I hear (I've never done it myself, that's the one thing I really want to try) it's pretty easy. If you were to have one custom made for you it would be several hundred dollars though since there's so much labor involved.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Yeah i'm an idiot....I meant fiberglass but i'm at work and am distracted so I read fiber and I think carbon....duh....

yeah i was looking at the alpine head units....they all look vaguely the same....there was a 9805 that was $189...so i might do that.... What does one look for in a head unit...obviously more than just a pretty display and ease of use....

sooo...
Head unit: Alpine CDA 9805 - 189
Comp Amp: JBL 80.2 - 79.99
Wiring - 100
Components: Cdt Audio CL-41 Car Component System - 250
Sub Amp: JBL 600.1 - 220

I looked up the Resonant Engineering and couldn't find anything except peoples personal websites...no manufactor website or stores selling it....

so that brings the total to about 740...hmmm

Would a 15" be better than a 10 or 12"....common sense would say yes since the number is higher....what about in the audio world


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

That component system should be much cheaper, last time I checked it was around $150. I believe the model number is the CL-61

RE's website is www.reaudio.com but unfortunately they don't have any prices listed. You can get the prices by emailing (I've heard they don't respond to emails too quickly though) or calling them. I think the 12 SE is around $220? But that's really a complete guess, it could be totally wrong.

Other than that it all looks fine, if you wanted you could step up a little on the front stage amp (to a 160.2 maybe), but it might not be doable in your price range.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Ahh i see the 150....yey...an extra 100... I just typed in the Cdt Audio Car Component System in epinions.com and that's the only one that was there....now i got the CL-61 at 150...good stuff...

So you really think that the resonant engineering is the way to go for the sub? and for the wires....still the 4 gauge monsters?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

RE is a good choice and so is the kicker L7. Unfortunately those are really the only 2 decent SPL-oriented companies that I know of. All the others that I know are built to sound good, they can get pretty loud, but one of those that can get as loud as say an L7 is going to cost twice as much as one.

I would stick with one of those 2 brands if I were you, but keep in mind, the L7, while cheaper, is going to require a larger box which will both cost more and take up more trunk space. It's really a tradeoff

As for the wiring, 4ga would still work well. Though with 2 amps you are going to need a distrobution block, some 8ga wire, and a second rca cable. This raises the cost a bit, but it's not too bad (maybe $30). You would want the same as what I listed earlier in this thread, except you would want to throw in a 1 4ga to 2 8ga distro (doesn't need to be fused), maybe 5-10ft of 8ga wire, and a second rca cable. I'm sure if you can't then the other people here could put together everything you would need, unfortunately I have no rights at work and this is one of the few sites I can actually go to, so I can't pick out anything in particular. www.darvex.com and www.knukonceptz.com are good sites for misc wiring stuff though


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Now these two companies will still sound good right? You scared me there with the only 2 SQL companies and the rest are made to sound good....

i'm learning more about the subs and amps...but now wires...I have no idea, trying to learn..

what's a distribution block? 

and what goes into making a good box for a sub? Homemade might be the way to go...I could make a box out of wood if that's all it requires...and then carpet it... is there any certain features that are important?


15,12 or 10..?

Also...what's the difference between the kicker L5 and L7 other than $100? I couldn't find much in the descriptions...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

They'll sound pretty decent, they won't win any sound quality competitions or anything, but they should satisfy you. A couple people on here have L5s and L7s, they can tell you better than I can how the sound quality is on them.

A distrobution block is a hunk of metal with holes and set screws in it. You take the cable running from the battery and screw it into one of the holes, and then you run 2 wires out of the other 2 holes and those go to your amps. It basically just splits the single cable into a pair of cables, one for each amp.

There isn't much that goes into making a good box. Ported is a bit harder, since you have a lot more pieces of wood that have to be cut and set in place (still not hard), the hardest part of a ported box is just designing it and getting some schematics to go off of. A sealed box is pretty simple, you look at the sub manufacturer's website, you pick a size in the range that they have listed, and you build a box that big. You just have to make sure that you have enough depth in the box so the sub won't hit the back when you try to set it in (you should leave atleast 1" from the very back of the sub to the back wall), and you have to make sure all of the joints are solid and very sealed. Other than that there really isn't anything you have to worry about, just use 3/4" mdf and lots of wood glue.

As for what size to get...it's all a compromise. A larger sub will be more efficient (get louder off the same amount of power) and can play deeper, but it requires a larger box which weighs more and takes up more trunk space. I would go with a 12 or a 15 if I were in your shoes, definitely not a 10.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I've been recieving alot of flack concerning my wish to upgrade. Some things i've heard is that since i have the RF package that it's so great and upgrading the headunit, components and sub is a waste of money because nissan "finely engineered the package"

I've also been told by some friends that JBL is crap and to stay away...

If i actually paid for the RF package i'd probably keep it and not even think of upgrading...but since the dealership guy totally messed up on my price i basically got it for free[17K tax tags and title, sunroof and RF package]...so no hard feelings about it...

what i want to know is on a scale...lets say 1-10 and 1 is stock and 10 is top grade thousands of dollars worth of stuff...where is the RF package? is it like a 2 or like a 5...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Who keeps telling you that nissan "finely engineered the package"? Have they actually heard something good to have any basis for an opinion, or are they just saying that because it's "Rockford Fosgate" and since it's a big name it must be good? I've heard the RF package a few times, and it's not good in any interpretation of the word. I could start listing off things that are lacking, but there's no point because it's pretty much everything. It's enough to satisfy the people who listen to talk radio, music at very low volumes, or people that just couldn't give 2 shits about how their music sounds. If I were to rank it on a scale from 1-10, where 1 is a working system (nothing blown), but it sounds like complete crap and 10 is competition level, I would rate the RF system around a 3 and the base 180 watt system around a 2.

About JBL, they do make budget stuff, but they're solid. I wouldn't touch their speakers since there is better out there for the money, but their amps are good. Do the people that say they're crap have any bad experiences with them or are they just going off of heresay?


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

It's actually my boyfriend who says that the RF package is a nice finely engineered thing that i shouldn't mess with...he's not really into bass...or loud music...he thinks it's offensive..

I on the other hand love bass and if it rattles your mirrors its ok...if it rattles the car next to yours it's awesome...I like to be obnoxious sometimes...not all the time...i do want a quality system that sounds good when i don't want to turn it up....i usually only have loud music when my windows are open to ...do exactly what this forum says "drown out the sound of my exhaust" heh

I don't like having to ride around with my bass on +5 and everything else on 0 to hear some bass...it gets muddy sounding...i found putting my backseat down...which was actually a joke at first, allowed me to hear the bass better...I can almost here the bass drum hitting...my bass has more punch with the seats down...

The person who doesn't like JBL, he works in Car shops and has been into the car thing since he learned to drive. They are friends with alot of audio people and he's had experience with the amps being crap. He did agree on the kicker for the sub though...

I don't know about these things so I can't really decide....

What i have decided on so far...is that i'm going to just get 2 10" kicker solo-baric L7s...the 10" sub has the same surface area as a normal 15" and i should get a 20hz overlap [i've been told] then i need an amp to power them...

I'm going to leave the headunit and components alone for now...i figure when i blow out my current speakers...then i can upgrade...I just don't have the money right now to plunk down 1500 for a new system...as much as i'd like it.


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> It's actually my boyfriend who says that the RF package is a nice finely engineered thing that i shouldn't mess with...he's not really into bass...or loud music...he thinks it's offensive..
> 
> I on the other hand love bass and if it rattles your mirrors its ok...if it rattles the car next to yours it's awesome...I like to be obnoxious sometimes...not all the time...i do want a quality system that sounds good when i don't want to turn it up....i usually only have loud music when my windows are open to ...do exactly what this forum says "drown out the sound of my exhaust" heh
> 
> ...


1 12 in L7 powers my SE-R too the point where it wants to break it in 2. and ur bf finds it offensive!?!?!?! stick in the mud...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

"I don't like having to ride around with my bass on +5 and everything else on 0 to hear some bass...it gets muddy sounding...i found putting my backseat down...which was actually a joke at first, allowed me to hear the bass better...I can almost here the bass drum hitting...my bass has more punch with the seats down..."
Yep, that's actually part of the reason most people here say to not even bother putting in rear speakers. If you take out the rear speakers, not only do you not lose any of your music (they're pretty useless as long as you have some decent front speakers), you also open up some vents to the trunk which gives you the same effect as laying down the rear seats. I noticed a pretty big improvement in bass when I got rid of my rear speakers, and on humid mornings my sub actually defrosts my window for me (no joke )

"The person who doesn't like JBL, he works in Car shops and has been into the car thing since he learned to drive. They are friends with alot of audio people and he's had experience with the amps being crap. He did agree on the kicker for the sub though..."
Well everyone has their own opinion, and he's entitled to think what he wants. I personally have only heard 2 negative things about the JBL monoblocks:
1 - they don't like being run at 1ohm, even though they're "1 ohm stable" it's better to run them at 2ohm, and since they put out the same power at 2ohm it's no biggie
2 - the crossovers suck
Other than those, they're supposed to be very good. Reliable, powerful, etc. Another option would be the phoenix gold tantrum monoblocks.

"What i have decided on so far...is that i'm going to just get 2 10" kicker solo-baric L7s...the 10" sub has the same surface area as a normal 15" and i should get a 20hz overlap [i've been told] then i need an amp to power them..."
Whoever told you this, never listen to them for anything again, because they obviously have no idea what they're talking about.
1 - The 10" L7 doesn't have anywhere NEAR the surface area of a normal 15, it's around half at best. If I could go to kicker's site I would check it out, but I can't. Could you go there and post the Sd for the 10" L7? The Sd is the surface area of the cone, and a normal 15 has a surface area around 800-850 cm^2 (or .08-.085 m^2)
2 - wtf is a 20hz overlap?


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

just what i've been told...i guess since it's square its the same as a round 15...or so i've been told...i'm just all repeating here...

The 20hz overlap is that the reason for getting 2 10s would be that one can handle one side of the spectrum and the other the other half...and then there would be an overlap...now if it's hz i'm not sure...

the sd for the 10" L7...umm i'm not sure what sd is....but i'll just paste it all:

Model S10L7 
Size (IN., CM) 10, 25.4 
Impedance (OHMS) 2 DVC, 4 DVC 
Max Rec Amplifier Power (WATTS PEAK)1200 
Max Rec Amplifier Power (WATTS RMS) 600 
Sensitivity (dB 1W/1M) 85.7 
Frequency Response (HZ) 24-100 
Mounting Depth (IN., CM) 6-3/8, 16.2 
Mounting Cutout, Square (IN., CM) 9-1/2, 24.1 
Min Rec Sealed Box Vol (CU. FT., LITERS) .66, 18.7 
Max Rec Sealed Box Vol (CU. FT., LITERS) 1.0, 28.3 
Min Rec Vented Box Vol* (CU. FT., LITERS) 1.25, 35.4 
Max Rec Vented Box Vol* (CU. FT., LITERS) 2.25, 63.8 

i don't have a clue what that means...but i think that's the new one...which looks completely different than the old one...and is twice as expensive....


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

the surface area thing is something kicker claims because they are square...their good subs but when they clam that, dont listen.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> 1 12 in L7 powers my SE-R too the point where it wants to break it in 2. and ur bf finds it offensive!?!?!?! stick in the mud...


haha...really one 12 would be cheaper...

and NickZac, on your sig... Scheisser...that's how it's spelled... Sheiss being shit...putting the -er on the end makes it not a word in real German... not like it matters....


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> haha...really one 12 would be cheaper...
> 
> and on your sig... Scheisser...that's how it's spelled... Sheiss being shit...it's actually not a word in real German...


Yea, their loud little buggers although their are some much cleaner subs out their. the JL W6 is a nice sub and very loud.

well I guess Hal's wife isn't an English major lol :cheers:


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

guess she's not a german major...haha

I've heard that JL is crap too....this audio stuff is so hard to figure...everyone says they love it or it's crap...

it's confusing!

it's all opinions...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

nah those are the normal crappy specs that don't tell you anything, the Sd would be in the technical manual (I think there's a link to it on that same page).

As for the rest, I understand that you're just the parrot relaying info between me and the "audio guy", but I'm just saying that if he really told you that, he has no idea what he's talking about. If we were in the magical wonderland where the kickers were a perfect 10x10 square with no surround taking up cone area, and the 15's again had no surround taking up area, then the 10 would have a surface area of 100 in^2 and the 15 would have a surface area of 177 in^2. Add in the fact that the kicker loses a LOT more surface area to the surround than a traditional round sub does, and the difference grows even more. Maybe the guy meant a pair of those 10's would have the same surface area as a normal 15?

I'm still not getting that 20hz overlap, what you said makes sense in its own way, if you had one playing the low bass and they would cross over just like your subs cross over to your mids, etc. The problem is that 20hz is at the very bottom of the audio spectrum, most people can't even hear 20hz because it's just so low, and most music doesn't even dip below 30hz, so if what you said was the case, one of your subs would just be completely wasted because it would be spending its entire time playing nothing but subsonic frequencies that you can't even hear. I really don't know what else he could have meant by that though...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

and about JL, they're good but they cost a lot. They're more SQ oriented anyway which it appears you don't really care for, so you'd be paying all this extra money for something you really wouldn't even be using.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I care for sound quality...but it appears it costs an arm and a leg...so for now...i guess i'm aiming more for SPL...

the 20hz overlap would be like ...not actually at 20hz....mind you this is all theoretical and i have no idea about ranges... 

say that on 10" plays and range of 60[put unit here] so it'd play 1-60 then the other would play 40-100 so then you have 20[mystery unit here] overlapped....

i don't know if it's even possible...but i think that's what he was talking about...but who knows...

so what would 2 10s do versus one 12 or 15? anything?


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> I care for sound quality...but it appears it costs an arm and a leg...so for now...i guess i'm aiming more for SPL...
> 
> the 20hz overlap would be like ...not actually at 20hz....mind you this is all theoretical and i have no idea about ranges...
> 
> ...


with the solo baric it all depends on the box. and while the W6 is expensive, it is clear...so are eclipse. their are plenty of other good brands that are a good bang for the buck but SR20 knows more about em than I. I just have a solo....as far as they go...you need an excellent box for it to sound decent.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

ahh I see what you're saying with that 20hz overlap, that would be a retarded way to set it up though. He might have meant the pair could play together from say 1-100, and you could cross the mids over at 80 and get an overlap. That wouldn't sound the best, but it doesn't really matter because that's something you can change on the fly and you'll probably change yourself if you don't like. Hell I change my crossovers up at least 5 times every time I drive, then again I have mental problems...

What would 2 10's do vs 1 12 or 15? Well, the pair of 10s would be louder than a 12, but not nearly as loud as a 15. The 10s would cost more, both to buy and to power properly, they would require a larger box, and they wouldn't dig as deep. There are really no advantages to using a pair of 10's, which is why I always recommend a single sub setup to people. If they want to get retarded, then a single 15, if they want to get loud, then a single 12, if they just want something to fill in the low end, then a single 10. Doubling up is for wankers


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

heheheh...wankers.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

HA...

yeah i think the better economic idea would be to get one 12...alot cheaper....and it sounds like a better thump....

what am i looking for in an amp? like for a 12" kicker solo-baric L7....how many watts and all that stuff would i need?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

somewhere around 700rms at 1, 2, or 4ohm (depending on which impedance model you get). A single 12 won't get as loud as the pair of 10s though, it normally follows a pattern, 2 12's = 3 10's, 2 15's = 3 12's, so a single 12 would be like 1 and a half 10's.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> somewhere around 700rms at 1, 2, or 4ohm (depending on which impedance model you get). A single 12 won't get as loud as the pair of 10s though, it normally follows a pattern, 2 12's = 3 10's, 2 15's = 3 12's, so a single 12 would be like 1 and a half 10's.


damn....that sucks....is it worth the 200$ for another one?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

I can't answer that for you


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> I can't answer that for you


Aww man....what if i'm planning on putting in the rest of a system....would 2 10s be better than a 12? like quality wise?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

They'll have the potential to get louder, but in order to get louder you're going to have to use a larger box and get twice the amplifier power, which will take its toll your electrical system and your bank account. I would go for a single 12 personally, if you feel that a sealed box is lacking or if you're afraid it won't be loud enough for you, then stick it in a ported box and never look back.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

so what to do....


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Alright...I'm pretty sure i'm going to do the 2 10"s. my boyfriend has a 12 and I don't like the way his sounds...and i've been told that 2 10"s will hit harder and have more thump.

Now...finally i have it narrowed down...I noticed alot of different types...well maybe not types but different numbers...

I did a search on epinions.com and got this when i typed "kicker Solo-baric 10" L7"

-Kicker S10L72 10" Solo-baric subwoofer L7 car Subwoofer < --notice the 2
-Kicker VS10L7 Solo-baric L7 10" vented <--notice the "V"....hmmm
-Kicker S10L7 Solo-Baric 4 ohm  subwoofer 04S12L7 <--yet even more numbers....though i know that's a 12" sub
-Kicker 04S10L7-2  subwoofer <---this one i notice doesn't have solo-baric...and it's fucking expensive
- Kicker 04S10L72

and those are the results...now i've been told that the old circle ones were like kick ass and i should try to find them...there is also considerable price difference between the ones that say 04 in front of them...i'm guessing that it's brand new...2004...

so out of those the price range is about 120-400....and yet they're the "same sub" 

help....


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

ok fine....i guess i'll sort those out by myself and wing it....

how about some Amp answers...

for 2 10" Kicker solo-Baric subs what numbers for the amp would i need....I see alot of people are JBL [or is it JL] amp people but i was told those are bad and non-reliable...

what am i looking for in an amp? What is Rms? How much does it matter if it's 2ohm versus 4ohm? 2 channel versus 4 channel? What's the difference?


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

I vote single 12. Would take much less space than 2 10s


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Ninety-Nine SE-L said:


> I vote single 12. Would take much less space than 2 10s


But i've been told that the 2 10s would hit harder and sound better than one 12....

I've heard my bfs 12 and i didn't like it, it was really muddy/headachy...


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## Jasper (Apr 2, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> But i've been told that the 2 10s would hit harder and sound better than one 12....
> 
> I've heard my bfs 12 and i didn't like it, it was really muddy/headachy...


10's most definately do NOT hit harder than 12's. 
if your b/f's 12 sounded bad, its probably because its in a poorly designed/made box, running a cheap or wrongly tuned amp, or maybe its just a shitty sub?
seriously, get a JL 500/1 (or JBL, cadence, there are many GOOD amps out there)...and get an Infinity Kappa Perfect 12 VQ... i can gaurantee it will sound amazing when properly set up



not muddy or headache-y


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So 1 12" would sound better? I'm planning on one day upgrading everything, headunit and components

So i'll be happy with a 12"?

I was actually looking at the Kicker Solo-Baric L7s ....whatever size they might be...

and can someone please answer my amp questions??

wow that amp is $$$$...i was looking at a little less than that....

one more edit....does anyone know why the 10" subs are more $$ than 12" L7s??


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Jasper said:


> 10's most definately do NOT hit harder than 12's


a single 10 no, but a pair of 10s will be louder than a single 12. Then again they take 2x as much power and 1.5x as much space to get there.


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## drift240sxdragqueen (Oct 23, 2002)

you never told me to get 1 sub, i would of just got a 15 instead of 2 12's BLAH!


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> a single 10 no, but a pair of 10s will be louder than a single 12. Then again they take 2x as much power and 1.5x as much space to get there.


so 2x the power obviously would mean a bigger amp and more money....i'm not too concerned with space, i took my one vacation halfway across the US and don't see taking another one in a while...

but my question is which will have the better quality bump ...?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> so 2x the power obviously would mean a bigger amp and more money....i'm not too concerned with space, i took my one vacation halfway across the US and don't see taking another one in a while...
> 
> but my question is which will have the better quality bump ...?


yep, bigger amp and more money

which would have better quality? Well you're comparing 2 subs of the same model (size really doesn't matter in the sound quality), so really the quality will depend on what box you use in both cases. Assuming you were to use the manu's recommendations for both the 10s and the 12, the 12 would be able to play lower and not get quite as loud, that's about all the difference you're going to find.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

can you define loud? Like bass or just overall playing...

I think i'm looking at a sealed box because it's supposed to work better for the Kickers...

How do Kicker's amps measure up? They are esthetically pleasing to the eye personally, but are they crap? 

I think i'm leaning towards the 1 12 in a sealed box...i've done some research on other forums and it looks like kicker is pretty good and enjoyed...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> can you define loud? Like bass or just overall playing...
> 
> I think i'm looking at a sealed box because it's supposed to work better for the Kickers...
> 
> ...


The sub wouldn't be as loud, so less bass. Of course if you ever thought the sub was too quiet you could just get a ported box instead, and I'm sure that would be more than enough for you.

Kicker amps are pretty good, only downsides are they're huge and they're expensive. If you can look past that then they should be fine.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

What kind of wattage...or however amps are measured [ ex. 600.1] would i need...they are less expensive than the JBL 500/1, i think that's it...it was like 400$ when the kickers looked like...ok...they did range in the $300s....I have a huge trunk and i saw that the kicker amps have end caps that hide the wires and stuff but they can be removed...

so ported would be louder than sealed? What's the difference? I've seen vented, ported and sealed...all SQ stuff?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

You'd want around 7-800 per sub if you got the L7s. So if you got a pair of 10's you would want around 1500x1, if you got a single 12 then you would want around 800x1 (both of these are rms power values, not "peak" or "max").

And yes, ported is louder than sealed by a good bit. At most frequencies a ported box will be about 3dB louder than a sealed box (same as sending your sub twice as much power, so at most frequencies, a sub with 300 watts in a ported box would be as loud as a sub with 600 watts in a sealed box). As you get closer to the tuning frequency of the box (you can make this whatever you want, it's a function of the size of the box, and the size and length of the port, so if you make a longer port you have a lower tuning frequency, shorter port is a higher frequency, there are programs out there that can help you with this, or we can do it if you want), the difference grows even larger. At the tuning frequency, a sub in a ported box can be over 10dB louder than a sealed box, or in other words, at the tuning frequency a sub in a ported box on 300 watts would be like the same sub in a sealed box on ~3000 watts (if it could handle 3000 watts that is).

In the real world, this means that right around the tuning frequency of the box you have a huge spike in the response, if you tune low, this means the low end will be very very powerful. When I went from sealed to ported with my sub, 30hz notes (if you play the song "woofer cooker", in the background of most of it is a 30hz tone, to give you an idea of how low this is) went from almost dead silent when it was sealed, to completely overwhelming, deafening, and painful when ported. Same sub, same amp, same gain setting, same volume, the only difference was the box that the sub was in. Some people don't realize how much of a difference it makes...


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## Jasper (Apr 2, 2004)

seriously. i cannot stress this enough
if you want quality sounds, you HAVE to spend the money.
kicker subs are ok...but imo not worth it. they're crazy for SPL, but comparitively, the SQ sucks (we compared my buddies two 12in L7's against my Alpines. his got wayyy louder, mine sounded wayyyy cleaner...and mine still got loud enough to rattle your brains from the front seat, or get one hell of a massage if you're sitting in the back)

start out by getting a good HU, good front stage (comp's, 4ch amp / 2 2channels)...then worry about subs

then, when the time comes...get the subs first (prepare to spend at least $400 for the pair, unless you get in on a crazy sale like i did)

then prepare to spend another $400-$500 for the amp if you want tons of clean and clear power.

do it in stages. you'll be MUCH happier in the long run.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

well i'm going ricer [my friend's bf looked down on just getting a sub and amp and sorta said it's tacky] for now and just getting sub and an amp, get my kicks and ruin my stock components then upgrade. 

Getting a head unit now will only cause headaches without getting new components and sub/amp wiring wise. Plus i go to college in Baltimore City so i think i'll wait until spring 05 [when i graduate] before i plan on putting in a flashy headunit...at least subs can be hidden, i'll just have to turn down my voume when i'm in the city. Alot of cars have been broken into in my school's parking lot....but strangely they've all been old cars...luckily no one has felt like walking to the far end of the lot to mess with my bright yellow car...but they ripped the dash out of an 88 lumina...

So i found a kickass deal on ebay that ends today and it's pickup only in my area...it's 2 10" L7s in ported boxes...if i win that then that's what i'm going to go with...if not probably just the 1 12"..

Thank you for finally answering my amp questions....it's sorta important to know when trying to search for a good brand....

So looks like i narrowed the field down to just searching for amps now... so recommended brands? JL, JBL, Pheonix gold, kicker, ....? suggestions?

So in order to do this with just the sub/amp i'm going to need a LOC...Where exactly does that hook up in the car? Am i going to need to take the dash apart? or will i be able to just work in the trunk?

sorry this is so long....I was away all weekend


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

getting a new headache will make ajusting the subs easier and your components slightly louder and clearer...plus most aftermarket H/Us have detachable face plates and a case is included to put the faceplate in.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

"So i found a kickass deal on ebay that ends today and it's pickup only in my area...it's 2 10" L7s in ported boxes...if i win that then that's what i'm going to go with...if not probably just the 1 12".."
Just make sure they can fit in your trunk, if so then you should be good to go

"So looks like i narrowed the field down to just searching for amps now... so recommended brands? JL, JBL, Pheonix gold, kicker, ....? suggestions?"
JL and the new JBL/Crown amps are out of your price range and not really worth the sacrifice that it will take to get them. Look at the phoenix gold octane series, the older JBL amps (the ones on www.woofersetc.com), Hifonics, MTX, etc. I should have a pair of Avionixx amps for sale here in a bit, the one that I have out of my car right now doesn't put out enough power for the L7s though.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

NickZac said:


> most aftermarket H/Us have detachable face plates and a case is included to put the faceplate in.


I realize this but if someone looks in and sees that theres a aftermarket headunit installed and just the space for it, it gives them more of a reason to break in to see what else i might have...while if i have the stock one they just might decide not too,....i just don't want to tempt....I'll be back in the spring asking yet more questions about component speakers and headunits...for now i think i'm just SPL oriented...until i'm out of the dangerous parking situation...i'm just too nervous...

Yeah fitting in my trunk good is the only problem...the boxes might be a bit long to put in the wheel well areas...so putting them in a new dual box might be what i have to do and sell the single boxes... is there any difference in sound between a single box or 2 in one box?

So i'll look up amps and see... so i'm looking for 1500x1? what does the x1 mean? is that the channels or ohm stable or something like that?

I was looking up Amps and notice a choice between 2channel, mono, multi-channel and such.... which would fit my needs?

so i did even more research....how is this amp? the phoenix Gold OCTANE-R 15.0:1 ? 
OCTANE-R 15.0:1
---------------------------- 
• High efficiency Class "D" monoblock amplifier
• 18dB variable LP crossover
• 18dB variable subsonic filter
• Low Pass Level port (LPL)
• Dimensions: 14.5L x 10.875W x 2.25H


1500W x 1 (2 ohm mono)
max power 


it doesn't have rms...so...what kind of wattage am i looking for?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

No there won't be any difference in sound between a dual box and 2 single boxes as long as the internal volume per sub stays the same. As for amps, yes you would want something around 1500x1, the x1 means it's a mono or single channel amp. You would wire the subs together so the amp only sees a single load, even though that single load is actually 2 different subs wired together. Which model are the subs (dual 2ohm or dual 4ohm)? That will determine which specific amp you need.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I can't check the auction since i'm at work and ebay is blocked but i believe they are 2ohm....but i'm not positive...4 ohm is lower, correct? like better?

i think someone tried to explain the whole ohm thing....that ohms are resistance so the more ohms the more powere needed or it's reversed...i don't remember...

What is bridging...I read alot around here that people bridge their amps or subs...what is that?

and back to the question i asked awhile ago... Where do the LOCs hook to my car? Dash? trunk?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

"I can't check the auction since i'm at work and ebay is blocked but i believe they are 2ohm....but i'm not positive...4 ohm is lower, correct? like better?
i think someone tried to explain the whole ohm thing....that ohms are resistance so the more ohms the more powere needed or it's reversed...i don't remember..."
More ohms means a higher resistance, which means it takes a higher voltage to get the same power going to the driver. It's all a game of matching subs and amps. No impedance is really "better" than another, it's all about what will work best in your specific situation. For me, a final impedance of 1ohm would be best, because that's the point where my amp will put out the most power while still staying reliable, if I have a speaker with a higher impedance then I'll get less power and not use the amp to its full potential. And if I have a speaker with a lower impedance, at full output there will be too much power going to the speaker for the amp to handle, and if I keep it up for too long I could fry the amp. Other amps are optimised for 2ohm loads or 4ohm loads, it all depends on the specific amp.

"What is bridging...I read alot around here that people bridge their amps or subs...what is that?"
Bridging is where you combine 2 channels of a multi-channel amp into 1. Basically, you can bridge a 2ch amp so it behaves like a 1ch amp, or you can bridge a 4ch amp so it behaves like a 2ch amp. Again it's all about application and what's better in your specific situation, I don't think you're going to find a multi-channel amp that can put out the amount of power you need, so I would just stick to looking at mono amps. Mono amps of the same power will be cheaper and more efficient anyway (they burn up less power internally, which means they run cooler and they're easier on your electrical system).

"and back to the question i asked awhile ago... Where do the LOCs hook to my car? Dash? trunk?"
You can hook it up in the trunk, just tap into the signal going to the rear speakers, mount the LOC on the bottom of the rear deck or something, and then run some short rcas from that to the amp.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So when I'm looking at the specs for an amp am I looking at the 2 ohms rating if that's what the subs are at? Because i found a MTX THUNDER 1501D and it has 1000 watts x 1 into a 2 ohm load....but the Dynamic power is 1500 watts... but the whole amp is advertised as a 750 watt amp....

is there any way you can narrow the field down with amps?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

yes if your subs are the dual 2ohm model then you'll be running the amp at 2ohm and you'll want to look at the 2ohm power rating. MTX amps are rated kinda weird...the dynamic power is the peak, and that number is worthless. I'm not really sure whether that amp is a 750 or 1000 watt amp though, my guess is it's 750 @ 12V and 1000 @ 14.4V, which means the power that it really puts out in your car will be somewhere in between.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So it looks like i'm looking at around 500$ for an amp....of course given that I get the 2 10"s...unless you can find a place cheaper....I was sorta hopeing for around 300....

so how long do you think installation will be? Would you suggest sound deadening? I'm thinking maybe just a little bit in my trunk since my spoiler rattles anyway...piece of crap...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

if you got the 2 10's and they were the dual 4ohm model, you could get a hifonics brutus 1500d which should serve you well (note: get it through www.sounddomain.com but have them pricematch www.ikesound.com). I have heard of a few people having problems, but very very few. Another choice would be the phoenix gold tantrum 1200.1. If you got the 2 10's and they were the dual 2ohm model, the same tantrum 1200.1 would work well, and so would the JBL bp1200.1 (both will put out ~1400x1).

Yes I would recommend sound deadening, if you want just a little you could put it on the trunk lid to help silence it. Installation time depends completely on the person doing it.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Alright...update....I got the 2 10" Solo-Baric Kicker L7 subs for 250...in ported boxes...how cool is that....They are 2004's too...

I convinced the guy to end the auction early...he kept lowering the price, originally it was 325, then he dropped it to 275 then down again to 240...it was then I offered him 250 to end the auction early to save him money.[hey he saved 12.50 that ebay was going to take after the auction ended]

People i've talked to said these are probably stolen to be so cheap...I looked them up on crutchfield.com and they are 350 each....

Hopefully I'll get them all in one piece and in good shape! 

Now we can talk serious about the amp because i'm going to want to install as soon as i can...I think i'll be picking them up wednesday...

yey  :thumbup:


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## erick212 (Nov 12, 2003)

Hey long time no talk, how have you been? Im hanging out at sr20forum so im not here much. Did you forget the web site I had told you about that is a great referance for tech audio stuff??? or did i never tell you??? Check out www.the12volt.com and you can answer a lot of your own questions. I't is good to read you are doing some custom stuff on your car and it seems you are enjoying it. :thumbup: 

Erick


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

erick212 said:


> Hey long time no talk, how have you been? Im hanging out at sr20forum so im not here much. Did you forget the web site I had told you about that is a great referance for tech audio stuff??? or did i never tell you??? Check out www.the12volt.com and you can answer a lot of your own questions. I't is good to read you are doing some custom stuff on your car and it seems you are enjoying it. :thumbup:
> 
> Erick


Hey, yeah you did give me that but i lost the url after I ditched the changer idea...I am enjoying this. I like learning about things I have no idea about and car audio....jesus....there's sooo much...

So i'm liking the hifonics brutus amp, the sounddomain does matching prices....damn thats a big difference between that one store and SD...so i guess ikesound isn't a good to order from?

I did the price match on sounddomain....245 isn't bad...i found about the same price though on ebay....but i'd rather not get it on ebay....


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So i got a response already from sounddomain....and they said they can't do the price match because "The competing retailer is not an authorized HiFonics Internet retailer."


so ebay? or any other tricks up anyone's sleeves?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

they wouldn't even lower the price?


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> they wouldn't even lower the price?


Nope said that the item was not eligable for any kind of discount...it's ok...I found the hifonics on ebay for about the same price...I think that's what I going for, and they're stores so it's not AS risky as my little pickup arranged

Now when i go to pick these up are there any signs i should look for...the Kid says they are only 2 weeks old and work perfectly...Is there any way to tell that will work?

I'm guessing the usual make sure theres no dents or scratches and that the rubber/foam stuff is there...but what else?


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## erick212 (Nov 12, 2003)

If there is any factory seals make sure they are not broken and if you can shine a light inside look to make sure there is no corrosion. I have seen amps get moisture inside and it will corrode and make a mess. Oh, the most important thing is you want to hear it work if at all possible. By this I mean, if it is multi channel you want to hear each channel one at a time then all together.

Erick


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

more questions....but this time it's wiring questions...but first let me say...that site www.the12volt.com is awesome...definietly answers some questions....

anyways...

When i actually get my amp, which i believe will be the hifonics brutus BX1500D, i'm going to have to wire the 2 subs which are dual 4ohm voice coils...so the two together, if wired parrallel will produce a 4 ohm load? So basically it's wiring the + and + together or the + and - on each sub....but the + and + would = a 1 ohm load.... 

the amp i'm looking at is 1 ohm stable so would i wire that way using the series or parallel...?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

before you decide on the brutus, make SURE that the subs are dual 4ohm. If they aren't then that amp won't work very well at all. If they are, you would need to wire in parallel/parallel (all 4 + connected to amp's +, all 4 - connected to amp's -) to give yourself a 1ohm load.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So i want a 1 ohm load right? if they are the dual 4ohm models...unfortunately i won't know until Sunday which ones they are for sure...

is there any way to tell if they are the 2 or 4ohm when i check them? Because i'm not getting them new in box...I don't want the kid to tell me one thing and i mess them up because they were the other...

Why wouldn't that amp work if they dual 2 ohm?

You say all 4 + to the amp's +...how would that be done? Just twist the wires together or some special thing that needs to be done...?

The LOC will connect at the amp? Isn't it the component wires to LOC to amp?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

"So i want a 1 ohm load right? if they are the dual 4ohm models...unfortunately i won't know until Sunday which ones they are for sure..."
Right, you would want a 1ohm load

"is there any way to tell if they are the 2 or 4ohm when i check them? Because i'm not getting them new in box...I don't want the kid to tell me one thing and i mess them up because they were the other..."
2 ways, you could either pull them out of the box and look for a sticker on the back, or you could get an ohmmeter and test it

"Why wouldn't that amp work if they dual 2 ohm?"
It would work, but if they're dual 2ohm you can only wire them to .5ohm, 2ohm, or 8ohm. .5ohm is too low for the amp to handle, 2ohm will give you ~4-500rms per sub, and 8ohm will give you ~100-150rms per sub. The only way to get full output out of that amp is to run it at 1ohm, and the only way to run the amp at 1ohm is with the dual 4ohm version of the subs.

"You say all 4 + to the amp's +...how would that be done? Just twist the wires together or some special thing that needs to be done...?"
You can do it however you want to, there are tons of ways. Basically, you just want all the + to be connected together and all the - to be connected together. You can run a pair of speaker wires (2 + and 2 -) from the amp to each of the boxes, then a wire from the + on the inside of the box terminal to the + on coil 1, then a wire from the + on coil 1 to the + on coil 2, and do the same on the - and on the other box. Or you could run separate wires from the 2 +'s and attach them both to the + on the box terminal, and do that for the - and for each box....there are a bunch of ways, just however you do it, make sure the connections are solid so they won't vibrate loose.

"The LOC will connect at the amp? Isn't it the component wires to LOC to amp?"
The LOC will connect to the wire going to your speakers. You can attach it anywhere in here, but it's easier to use the speaker wire going to the rear speakers because it's right there in the trunk and the rcas that run from your LOC to the amp will be short. You could put the LOC in the dash and tap into the speaker wires right there coming out of the headunit, but then you have to run some 15ft rcas through the entire car back to your amp.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

are subs easy to pull out of the box? Is it a snap in and snap out thing? I thought they were mounted somehow. I'm pretty sure I can't just hear them, because that would require a hookup and this is going to be a dump and run for him most likely...

"2ohm will give you ~4-500rms per sub, and 8ohm will give you ~100-150rms per sub." 
So let's say they are the 2ohm versions, then i have to look for a 1500[watt?] amp that's 2ohm stable or load? And what kind of rms am I looking for...is 4-500 per sub bad? or just not to it's potential?

Is there any special trick or tool that will make sure the connections won't rattle loose? This will be my first time with electrical work so what i might think is tight might be crap...I will, though, be "supervised" by someone fairly familiar with wiring...but i want to do as much as i can by myself...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

"are subs easy to pull out of the box? Is it a snap in and snap out thing? I thought they were mounted somehow."
Should just be held in by several screws. Last night I took my sub out, rewired it from series to parallel (going from 4ohm to 1ohm because I switched amps), and put it back in in under 10 minutes. It's fairly simple, you just unscrew it, pop it out, check out the back, and then put it back in and screw it back down. Just be careful to support it well while you're handling it so you don't shove your fist through the cone or anything.

"So let's say they are the 2ohm versions, then i have to look for a 1500[watt?] amp that's 2ohm stable or load? And what kind of rms am I looking for...is 4-500 per sub bad? or just not to it's potential?"
You would want to look for an amp that did ~1500x1 @ 2ohm. The brutus puts out 1000x1 @ 2ohm, I mean it would work, but like you said it wouldn't be pushing them to their full potential. If you got the 2ohm version I think the phoenix gold tantrum 1200.1 would be a very good choice.

"Is there any special trick or tool that will make sure the connections won't rattle loose? This will be my first time with electrical work so what i might think is tight might be crap...I will, though, be "supervised" by someone fairly familiar with wiring...but i want to do as much as i can by myself..."
When you get it and and you think it's secure, try pulling on the wire (not Hercules style, swinging the sub around above your head by the wire, but just pull a bit on it). If it doesn't budge then it should be good, if it comes undone, then you need to try again.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

phillips head screwdriver? normal size?

I just want to be prepared to look them over and see if they are "broken" or something like that....I don't want to get screwed...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

depends on what he used to screw them in, could be phillips, could be common, could be hex, could be star....no way to tell until you see them.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> depends on what he used to screw them in, could be phillips, could be common, could be hex, could be star....no way to tell until you see them.


damn....so all i can do is bring a phillips and hope...


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Ok...

Is there a way to HEAR the subs work? Mind you i'm getting these in a mall parking lot, anyway to ghetto rig it up that's quick and easy?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

not really, maybe he'll have them set up so you can hear them before buying? If not then bring a 9V battery. When you get the subs, touch the + and - speaker wires to the + and - terminals on the 9V (polarity doesn't matter). Make sure the sub's cone moves out or in (depending on which way you have it wired to the batt) without making any scratching or other strange noises. It should make a pop sound since it's moving so quickly, but other than that...you're basically just making sure the cone moves and there's no scratching sounds.

Then try switching the polarity (just flip the 9V the other way to make the cone move the other direction) and do the same thing.

This will just make sure the sub isn't completely destroyed (frozen in place from a melted coil, misaligned coil from abuse, etc), but it won't tell you anything about how it sounds. Worth a shot though if you're afraid of buying some subs that are DOA.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

wow that's really cool...I'll try that... he told me that they are 4ohm...it took about 3 emails of repeadedly asking him...so looks like I can start checking out the hifonics brutus BX1500D amp...

Any suggestions on where to get the wires and stuff? I'll need a LOC, this is all I know for sure. I also need the 4 guage monster cables too? or was that just if i was doing the whole system?


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## Punkrocka436 (Jul 8, 2003)

use www.sounddomain.com for the LOC

For wiring, partsexpress.com has been my savior forever. They have pretty much everything you will need...tools, connectors, wiring, switches etc. Definitely keep that site bookmarked. You will need the wiring. But if you are going to be running that many watts RMS, i suggest you upgrade to a bigger wire 1/0 gauge would be best, if you decide to go even louder in the future.

I noticed in one of the earlier posts that you were worried about people looking in and stealing your system. The best thing i can say is get an alarm. You may not be able to see your system, but 1000+ watts RMS is very loud and everyone will be able to hear it. Driving a yellow Spec V doesnt help since it stands out and everyone will know your car. Your best bet is to get a good head unit (then you have good control over your system from the front of your car, not having to adjust the amps everytime you want more/less bass) and then get an alarm with a paging system. Put Piezo sirens in the trunk hidden so theives wont be able to see them, and they wont be able to work because a 118 dB piezo siren next to your ear is a bitch to work with. Put 2 or 3 in the back of your car with different tones to keep theives in check. 

Make sure everything is bolted down with rare connectors (star screws would be best, but Hex keys are good too) Keep the screws hidden (take the sub out, screw the box to the floor, put sub back in). Also talk to your insureance company about insuring the system. You will need to give them pictures and receipts so keep everything. 

There is alot you can do to keep people out of your car and your system safe. Turn your stereo down a couple of blocks before you park too. Living in a good neighborhood is a plus as well


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## erick212 (Nov 12, 2003)

Damn sr20dem0n you definately seem to know your sh!#, that is exactly what I was going to say. The 9v battery is one of the installers best tools. The other thing I was going to say is push the cone by hand from the back out to see if there is any problems with were the voice coil meets the cone(were the coil is glued to the cone). Push the cone out and look and see if there are any places were the glue seems the be dis-bonding. I would also really see if you can get them to hook them up so you can hear them if you don't trust(know) the people.

Erick


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Thanks guys, That was alot of good info. I like the sirens in the back, i can only imagine that'd be a bitch.

That's a really good idea about the hex keys/ star screws, easier than a phillips...

Any suggestions on brand of alarm? how much is that going to run price wise?

I want the system so bad it sucks that I have another 6 months of dangerous parking or I would just get the head unit now...I live in...well it's supposedly a good area but not my neighborhood....lots of....shady going-ons if you know what I mean....heh...hoping to get out of there maybe in the next year

I do plan on turning my system down when I get in the city and until i get out of the city...most of my driving I do is highway so it's just arriving places that's the sketchy part...

I'm planning on doing the 9 volt trick when checking the subs out ....but is there an easy way to hook them up? Is there some type of plug and play thing? The guy going with me [i'm not meeting the sub guy alone] has a sub and amp, is there a way to unplug his and hook them up to it? or would that be really involved?

I checked out the sites and is there a brand of LOC i should look for? 

thanks again, you guys are awesome and know your stuff!


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

If you friend already has a sub and amp, it might be as easy as just unscrewing the speaker wire going to his box and screwing it in to the kicker's box. It depends on what amp he has and how the kickers are wired though.

As for the LOC, check out www.davidnavone.com


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## Punkrocka436 (Jul 8, 2003)

Alarms are the area of auto-electronics that intrigue me most. So if you need help picking one, I can explain to you all the features and everything liek that.

The alarm I have, Clifford Matrix RS2.5X would be a good bet for you. If you work a short distance from where you park the paging system will tell you if someone is breaking into your car. There are the necessary sensors (glass breakage, knock, trunk pop, hood pop, door open). LCD remote tells you what part of the car is being broken into, will tell you if the car is started, tells you if its locked/unlocked etc.

It will run you about 300 dollars installed from some place like best buy. If you do want to do it at best buy....make sure you tell them where you want everything. My mom suprised me with this alarm for x-mas and when i was takign the dash off to do my electronic trunk release, i found the alarm brain right under the steering column, and some of the wires were visible. It was a bitch to redo their work. A good place to put it is in the center console right near the parking brake. In order to get to it, theives will have to take out your seats to access the screws to take it out.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

He has a pioneer 12" sub...that's about all i know....I'm not sure the amp brand but I would think that something powering a 12 would be able to power one 10"...but then again what do i know...  

how could the kickers be wired differently?

so an alarm that does all that would be only 300 installed? I know someone who has installed alarms so I could probably get out of that cost... unfortunately the place I'm the most nervous about parking my car is a mile from my school...I have one hell of a hike from the parking lot to my building...

I looked up the Clifford Matrix RS2.5X and couldn't find anything on epinions.com or anything through yahoo search...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

"He has a pioneer 12" sub...that's about all i know....I'm not sure the amp brand but I would think that something powering a 12 would be able to power one 10"...but then again what do i know... 

how could the kickers be wired differently?"

It all depends on the amp really
for example: if his sub was single 4ohm and he had a 2ch amp bridged to it, if the kicker was wired in parallel then it could fry the amp as soon as you tried to power it up. Chances are it would just go into protection, but sometimes amps can be finicky and you never really know. If he had a mono amp, then you really couldn't do any damage to it with one of those subs, since every mono amp out there is 2ohm stable, but you would need to make sure what amp he had before you tried anything.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I asked him and he said all he knows is that it's a Profile California 400W... 

I just got a virus on my computer and the Ops guy is supposed to come up here and fix it so i'm trying to limit the website surfing....

Can the amp harm my new subs somehow?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

as long as you don't crank it and the amp isn't defective, no


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

ok...so the amp is this one 
amp 
it's the 400xl model, which is a 2 channel 2ohm stable

will a quick up work? he has no idea if it's bridged...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

if the kickers really are dual 4ohm, and you hook one sub to one channel of the amp, then it will be fine. See on like the 3rd page of your link there are 4 speaker terminals in the pic? The left 2 are one channel, the right 2 are the other channel, if the amp was bridged then only the outside 2 terminals (the + from one channel and the - from the other channel) would have wires on them, the inside 2 terminals would not be connected to anything.

If you attach one of the kickers to just the left 2 terminals or just the right 2 terminals it will be fine.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Alright thanks...hopefully everything works out...


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Just to update anyone who cares....I was supposed to meet the guy to get the subs today but he was a no show....or we missed each other...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

well that sucks, have you talked to him since?


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> well that sucks, have you talked to him since?


i sent him an email asking if he showed up and was still interested in selling...It sucks big time...now i'm subless and have to do the hunt all over again....I guess i'll go with the one 12... the 2 10s would be running at 700 alone without a box or amp....


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Another update....The guy finally emailed me back and i'm going to pick them up tomorrow evening...

I notice there are alot of different LOCs...what am I exactly looking for? IF these subs work, i'm eager to get everything together and in as soon as I can!


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I GOT THEM!!!

man are they beautiful! 2 10" Kicker Solo-Baric L7s.....hell yeah...two boxes and one is brand new in the box....

so now I can purchase my amp and bother all of you on the wiring how to....He gave me speaker wire too....

I can't wait to hear these babies in my car!

:thumbup:


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

hehe, nice

first off, are they really the dual 4 version?


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> hehe, nice
> 
> first off, are they really the dual 4 version?


Yes, really are the dual 4 ohm....The boxes are huge [24 lenght 12 wide an 14 tall 3inch port]...they are in two seperate 10" boxes....so I think I might need to sell the boxes and pick up a nice dual 10" box....any suggestions? Anyone interested in the 2 10" boxes? 

So is it all agreed that the hifonics amp [Hifonics Brutus BX 1500D] is the way to go? The kid works for a Kicker/audio store and said if I needed anything else he could hook me up...and get a good price....I guess he gets commission so that's cool with me....Would a kicker amp be better "quality"?

Next is the amp....then the wiring... I can't wait! :thumbup:


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

yep the brutus 1500d would work well

kicker would work too, they're about the same as hifonics in the quality department IMO


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Would just work? So I guess it's not like "holy crap what an amp!" heh...

So i have no problem getting a Hifonics for 245$ + shipping on ebay....but if they are about the same as kicker why are kickers like $500!


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

is that $500 on ebay or in a store?

and you're going to have a hard time finding a "holy crap what an amp!" amp for under $6-700 that puts out the power you want. If you want to look into them though, check out Tru, Helix, Brax, McIntosh, Zapco, US Amps, Cadence, Tube Driver (not sure if they have any amps that are that powerful), DLS, Audison, Arc, or the oldschool PPIs


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

The Kicker's price is off of Epinions....so it's a store...I haven't looked them up on ebay....The kid I got the subs from said he could hook me up...

The Hifonics was the same price at that store you linked me to as on ebay...Is there a reason that they are so cheap?

I want to make the right choice about the amps...that's why all the questions...

so if i went with the kicker i'd be looking at the Kicker KX1200.1? or should I just stick with the hifonics.....


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

it's up to you really, I don't like kicker amps because I think they're ugly and way too big for the power they put out, but neither of those has anything to do with how they sound or how well they're built, so you shouldn't let my opinions on the cosmetics lead you away from something you might enjoy.

Hifonics amps are cheap mainly because their advertising budget isn't ridiculously high like it is with kicker, same reason why most of the internet-only subs are comparable to mainstream subs costing 2-3 times as much.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I just got off the phone with my friend....the same guy that seems to hate all your suggestions...

He was saying that I only need an 800 amp...not the 1200 or 1500 that i've been looking at...

He also said i need a capacitor....I know alot of people here on the forum say they're crap and useless...He says that it's needed not to blow the alternater and or kill a battery cell...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

hehe, that guy

You could use an 800 watt amp, hell you could use a 200 watt amp, but the smaller the amp the more you have to push it to get the output you want. Say at the level you listen to your music, you're using 700 watts. If you have a 400 watt amp powering your subs, then it will be almost fully clipped and it will sound like ass, not to mention the amp will go into protection pretty quickly. If you have an 800 watt amp, it will play just fine, but it will be just about at its limits. It will run hot, have a good bit of distortion from being pushed so hard, and if you have any transients in the music that require say 850 watts, the amp will start clipping and that peak will sound bad. If you have a 1200 watt amp, then it will play perfectly fine, it will be running cooler with less distortion, and it will be able to handle any transients in the music that might happen to pop up. Any extra power that the amp is capable of delivering over what you use is called headroom, headroom is a very very good thing to have, the amp will last longer, the sound will be cleaner, etc. The only downside is you have to pay more to get a bigger amp that can have this extra headroom. If you're really strained for money then an 800 watt amp would work fine, you might push it into clipping occasionally, but it won't be severe and you should be fine. If you can afford it though, I would go a bit bigger. Take my advice with a grain of salt though, I'm running 250 rms to each of my front speakers (rated to handle 100rms), and 1500rms to a single 12 (rated to handle ~1000rms). I have a lot of headroom and I love it, but it did cost more.

And no you don't need a cap, 99% of the people out there who have caps don't need them, they're just fooled into buying them by the asshole audio salesmen who tell them that they need 1 farad per 1000 watts (which is a completely BS "rule" based on absolutely NO scientific evidence or fact). For the price of a cap you can get a new battery and upgrade the big 3, which will have a much larger effect on any dimming or low voltage problems you might have.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm pretty set already about getting the larger amp and what you said makes sense...so i think i'm going to stick with the bigger amp....

I don't really know much about audio but i always thought the caps were for people packing alot of juice...and i didn't really think the amp i'm looking at was THAT much...

why would I care about dimming lights? which lights? like head lights? then i might care...but just interior...I don't think i'm going to be maxing out the amp very often....I might play it loud every now and then to be like "hell yeah" but not constantly....though I say this still recovering from a very loud concert and not hearing much at the moment 

upgrade the big 3? alternator? basically he said it's a good idea to put a cap in for $100 and save replacing the alternator for $300

i don't know...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

caps (the big 1 farad + ones, not the little 20mF that are inside your amp) only have one real use, and that is to put one in parallel with the battery when you have a highly unregulated amp and you listen to rock. A regulated amp won't benefit from a cap, the cap won't do all that much for dimming lights, and if you listen to anything with extended bass lines (read: rap), the cap will become useless within the first half second. They don't reduce the load on your alternator or battery, in fact they increase the load (some of the current passing in and out of the cap is burned up in its internal resistance, this current must be replaced by the alternator, which means the total load on the alt is even higher). What they do is spread out the load so it's more constant instead of in a bunch of little peaks. If the alternator is going to die then it's still going to die, the cap won't do a single thing to extend its life. And if the battery is going to run dry and ruin a cell, it will still run dry and ruin a cell. The cap doesn't make power, so if you're drawing enough to run the battery dry without a cap, you'll still run it dry with a cap.

There's a reason that practically no competition vehicles, whether they be sound quality or spl vehicles, use caps.

And the dimming lights are all the lights, if it's slight then you'll only see it in the dome light, more severe and you can see it in your gauges, more severe and your headlights start dimming. Upgrading the big 3 (it's been talked about many times on here, a simple search would turn up all the info you need) gets at the source of the dimming problems, and that's a voltage drop in the entire electrical system caused by too much current flowing in and out of the battery through crappy stock cables. I'm not saying that upgrading the big 3 will get rid of all dimming, but it will definitely make a big improvement on our cars. Without mine I get dimming in the headlights, gauges, dome light, everything. With it I only get very very slight dimming in the dome light and that's it, and I'm still on the stock alt and stock batt. If you upgrade the batt too then just about all of your dimming problems will be solved, if you have any problems to begin with that is.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

ok I did a search on the big 3....gotcha....hey, I thought it was just another name for something....I'm learning here.... :thumbup: 

So it sounds stupid to him but I think I trust you more than him so I'm going to say no thanks to the cap, try to explain why....maybe cut and paste...

I'm still trying to make sure I get a nice amp...Now both you AND him say that pheonix gold is a good choice...

I guess I might be limiting myself by having my heart set on that Hifonics amp...Let's say price range is up to 400...even though i REALLY don't want to spend that much on an amp....What do YOU think would be good for that money.....and i have no problem going lower in price...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

hehe, well it's not like you can never add a cap in the future. If you do the big 3, and you get a new battery possibly some time in the future, and you still have problems with low voltage and/or dimming, then you can try out a cap. The advantage of the big 3 is it costs about $10, which isn't a big loss even if for some reason it does nothing for you. A cap on the other hand is like $100 down the drain if it doesn't fix your problem.

Phoenix gold is always a good choice, the tantrum 1200.1 is in your price range and would work well, it puts out 1400x1 @ 4ohm which is perfect. It's just a matter of deciding which of these good choices to go with, that's always the hardest part.

I don't know how I decided on my amps, but damn I went through about 15 choices and eventually narrowed it down. Are you going to stay ported? If so then you probably want a subsonic filter. I know the brutus has one, not sure about the tantrum

You could also look for someone selling a used cadence a7hc, it would be perfect and it's a lot better than any of the other choices, but it might be pretty hard to find.


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## Jasper (Apr 2, 2004)

yeah, i did the Big3 upgrade this morning, as of now, you can definately tell the car runs a bit stronger, i cant tell ya how the dimming is yet though, the subs and amp arent installed. i'll let you know though.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

ok, now i have a question about boxes....

The ones that came with my subs are single ported/vented. They are huge however and are about 2.25 cu ft each. In my kicker booklet it has recommended port enclosure sizes for 1 sub...what i have now is for SPL/Deep bass. The box is a perfect size for fitting 2 subs in....well visually perfect.

What i'm wondering is can i just cut another hole for the other sub and have 2 10" subs in a 2.25cu ft box....or is that half assing it a little too much?

If not...What is the size that they SHOULD be in?


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Where did you go SR20Demon!!

My amp arrives in less than a week and then it's GO TIME for the wiring....


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

hehe, sorry I've been on a cruise in the gulf
I'm feeling very mexican today, I want [another] corona....


If your boxes are ported, then they aren't 2.25cf. It might look that way from the outside, but the port takes up a LOT of room inside the box, and this room doesn't count as airspace. The box I have now is about 2.6cf if you just measure the external dimensions and figure out the volume, but it's actually a 1.5cf box with a huge ass port. Chances are yours are about 1.2-1.5cf each with a good sized port, and there's no way you could just cut another hole and stick a second sub in one of the boxes without it sounding like ass.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Welcome back...

yeah I've ditched the hole cutting thing....i figured...

So i'm Probably just going to buy a box...I found one that appears to be good, dimensions and all...

The Sub enclosure I'm looking at 

Now it's the wiring....since I already have a sub and amp, will most the wires I need already be there? Or will they be there but I need to upgrade the gauage? 

The Wiring is the thing i'm not really clear about, So I was looking at previous posts and saw i need like a LOC with something like N-777 or something like that...and a certian gauge wire...

IT is official i'm working with the 2 10" kicker solo-baric L7s 4 ohm model and the hifonics brutus BX1500D amp...

What's something about an inline fuse? Is that already in the amp or is that in addition to the one that has to go on the battery?

This is the point I could really use the "walkthrough" because I'm not familiar with this stuff....


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> Welcome back...
> 
> yeah I've ditched the hole cutting thing....i figured...
> 
> ...



don't get that box, it looks like it could be of decent quality, but you know nothing about the size or tuning frequency. It could be tuned to like 50hz and make all your music sound like ass for all you know. If you go for a prefab ported box, make sure you know all of the specs that there are to know (construction material, internal volume after port displacement, tuning frequency, port area, etc).

As for wiring, you just need an amp wiring kit, 4awg at the very minimum, 2awg or 1/0awg would be optimal but more expensive.
20-25ft of power
~5ft of ground
inline fuse and fuse holder, something around 100-120 amps for 4awg, or 150 amps for 2awg or 1/0awg
remote turn on
rcas
14awg or larger speaker wire, if the kit doesn't come with large enough speaker wire you can go to an audio shop and pick some up for pretty cheap since you only need a couple feet


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So where would I find a box? I've looked everywhere on the internet for the square boxes that aren't sealed and that is about the only one i could find

Should I just make it myself? even then I have no idea what the "right" tuning and stuff would be...

I went to an audio store and got a quote for a custom enclosure out of MDF with fiberglass coated inside all tuned and stuff and it was a little pricey....like $300...

All the ones on ebay i'm sure are crap because anyone can nail a box together and sell it....

So i'm lost on what to do about a box...

ok so i was looking around the web some more and found this box
Sub box 

it looks nice... tuned to 39hz...is there a place that has what the subs should be tuned to?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> So where would I find a box? I've looked everywhere on the internet for the square boxes that aren't sealed and that is about the only one i could find
> 
> Should I just make it myself? even then I have no idea what the "right" tuning and stuff would be...
> 
> ...



There are some decent ones on ebay, you just have to know what you're looking for. There won't be as many for the kickers since they need their own special box (damn square hole), but I'm sure there are several. 39hz is a bit high, I would aim for something closer to 32-33hz, but this might be hard to find since it's pretty rare for prefabs to be tuned this low. They're normally built to be peaky and loud (tuning frequency in the high 30's or low 40's), not to sound good. If you can't find any others that 39hz one would work, but you'll lose a bit of low end and you'll get a huge peak in the response around 40-50hz. Building your own isn't that hard, but it takes quite a bit of time to plan it all out and build it right.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So for looking on ebay, i'm looking for the 3/4" MDF or higher, right cubic feet for the subs? Something tuned to the lower 30s...anything else?

If i built the box myself how would I "tune" it? Would I need to get some tool?

I sorta have my heart set on a ported/vented box...Do you agree that it will sound good? Bass wise as apposed to a sealed or bandpass?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

that's about it

and the tuning frequency depends on the volume of the box, and the port size and length. No special tool is needed, you just need to get a program like WinISD to find out what size and length port is needed to give you the tuning frequency you want for your box size.

ported can sound pretty good, my sub is ported right now and it sounds great, and I know several people who have won sound quality competitions with ported subs. The rumors that ported sounds bad all come from people buying generic ported boxes and sticking any old sub in them. The box isn't built or designed for the sub, and therefore it ends up sounding like ass. If you design your own box it can sound every bit as good as a sealed box, while having much more output and a MUCH stronger bottom end.

Bandpass is pretty much the same story, prefabs sound like shit, but you can design your own that can sound good. Bandpass boxes are a whole lot harder to design than a ported box though, and even when built perfectly they don't offer that much of an improvement over a normal ported box anyway.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So i'm back from the beach....back to the subs...

So i'm now on the search for the amp wiring kit...Is there a brand of an amp wiring kit i should look for?

prices seem to be all over the place for these...i'm seeing $12 - $140...
Amp wiring kits? 

so do i need to worry about the wattage? And maybe i'm looking at cheap kits but i can't seem to find a fuse higher than 80a...

I'd prefer to spend about $26 on these...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

for the 1500d, you'll want a 2 gauge or 1/0 gauge kit, and you definitely won't be able to get it for $26


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> for the 1500d, you'll want a 2 gauge or 1/0 gauge kit, and you definitely won't be able to get it for $26


Damn...

no brands suggestions?

So i can't find 2 gauge...so this one is 1/0 would it work? It matches almost all of the criteria you posted above...
Wiring Kit

and this one seems to be the same one but it doesn't list the brand name...
other kit


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

When it comes to wiring, brands don't really matter. The only differences you'll find are in the shielding on the rcas and the quality of the fuse holder really.


And damn those are expensive, especially considering neither of them include rcas or speaker wire. On second thought, you could probably get away with 4 gauge, at least until you add a second amp sometime in the future. If you get a 4 gauge you're going to have to get one with a fuse around 120 amps though, this will be hard to find since most kits come with AGU fuse holders/fuses (because they're cheap), and I believe the highest AGU fuse you can find is 80 amps. If you can find a 4 gauge kit with an ANL fuse that would be much better, but keep in mind it will be more expensive. Or as another option, you could build your own kit. Just throwing some quick ones together, you could get a 4 gauge kit for $60 and a 1/0 gauge kit for $74 (plus shipping, which will be pretty hefty since large power wire weighs so much). Both of those include 25ft main cable (20 for power, 5 for ground), 20ft rcas, 5ft 12 gauge speaker wire, 20ft 18 gauge remote lead, ANL fuse holder, 150 amp ANL fuse, and 2 ring terminals for connecting the power to the batt and the ground to the chassis (I don't think the brutus needs ring terminals, if it does add about $5 to each kit).

Another thing that I just thought of, if the brutus doesn't need ring terminals, chances are it won't be able to take 1/0 unless you trim the wire significantly or run it through a 1/0 -> 4 distro, which adds another $15 or so to the 1/0 set.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Which way do you think would be best for a newbie? Should i just hunt around for a 4gauge kit or piece my own together? I'm guessing that alot more can go wrong piecing everything together....is there something I could mess up on, like getting the wrong this or that, that could hurt my amp or subs? 

Also the kid who gave me the subs also included like 10ft of speaker wire...so i can use that right? I'm not sure what gauge it is...it's probably like an 1/8th of an inch thick...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

it probably says on the wire what gauge it is, as long as it's 14 gauge or larger that would be fine.
The easiest thing would be to buy a 4 gauge kit, you just have to make sure you read what it includes and make sure it's not missing anything.

You'll need at the very minimum
~20ft of 4 gauge power (not sure how much exactly, but around 20 is fine)
3ft of 4 gauge ground
15ft rca
2 ring terminals for the power and ground
15ft remote wire, 18-20 gauge is fine
ANL fuse holder
100-150 amp ANL fuse, if the fuse is larger than 150 you'll need to buy a smaller one


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So i was looking around ebay and found this...it matches pretty much all you said...Would this work? If I take the money i'm saving on ebay and buy a bigger fuse?

Ebay kit

or this one
Another kit


this one is a little more $$ but it looks like it has the bigger fuse...a little confusing though...
more $ ebay kit


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Both of the first ones are decent, watch the shipping charges though. Those will both be around $30 shipped, then it will be about $20 for a new fuse holder and fuse (ANL is expensive).

The second one would work too, but the ground is 8 gauge, it includes a distrobution block and 2 fuses that you don't need, and it includes a short rca that you don't need. After you buy the new ground it would end up being almost $70, unless you had enough of the power wire to use it as the ground too (which you might), in which case it would be about the same cost as the others.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So I can just look on like sounddomain or other places for 100-150amp fuse and fuse holder? ANL of course...

What's the exact name/ description that I'm looking for?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

just an ANL fuse holder and a 100-150 amp ANL fuse, pretty simple

like these:
http://www.darvex.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CQ-2200-0&Product_Count=1
http://www.darvex.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GANL150&Product_Count=1


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So those would work?

Man those fuse holders are expensive...so i'd need a 4 gauge fuse holder if i'm getting the 4 gauge kit? They were like 37 EACH!...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

the one that I linked to was a 4 gauge fuse holder, it's only $20


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> the one that I linked to was a 4 gauge fuse holder, it's only $20


Ahhh...the 0/4 threw me off....So how do the gauges work? Is it opposite where 0/1 is the biggest and 16 is small? 

What does the 0 and / mean?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

yeah 16 is small, 14 is bigger, 12 is bigger, etc.

It does get a little confusing when you hit 0 because they start abbreviating. But it goes 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 00, 000, 0000. People are too lazy to write all those 0's though, so it becomes 4, 3, 2, 1, 1/0, 2/0, 3/0, 4/0. 1/0 just means 1 zero, 2/0 means there are 2 zeros, etc. When someone writes 4/0 they're talking about some huge wire, when someone writes 0/4 they either don't know what they're talking about, or it just means 0 (aka 1/0), or 4, meaning there's a little plate thing inside the terminal that you can leave in for 4awg, or take out for 0awg.

The fuse holder is 0/4, so it can be used for 0 gauge or 4 gauge, if they had written 4/0 it would be a whole different story. Confusing I know, but it's just something you have to get used to I guess.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Ahh gotcha....interesting...I'm learning so much..heh...

So now that I sorta have the wiring on a roll....

I downloaded winISD and starting playing around...I'm not sure if you're completely familiar with the program to explain some stuff but i'll try any way...oh btw I think i'm going to build my own box now...

So I put in my info...that i have the 2 kickers blah blah...and I got the little chart...I went to the box with 5 tabs, driver, box, vents, plot and project...on the box tab i have tuning frequency and volume.. I clicked on box shape and put my board thickness and the shape of the box and hit optimum....now that sets the W,H,D to numbers...they seem to make sense...it's a god awful big box i'm realizing now...but is that what i'd build it to? it tells me that the tuning frequency is 31.81...which, from what you said earlier is good...

So would I just build the box to those dimensions....it's a ported box and gives me the port size...although it's...square? says 4in x 4in for vent diameter...then theres a vent length and a vent mach....what is vent mach?

i'll keep playing around...but being at work...now i actually have to work...so I'd appreciate and pointers with this program or what-not...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

hopefully someone else can give you the specifics on winisd. I've used it quite a bit, but I've never used the new version so I'm not sure what that board thickness and shape and "optimum" button do. And I can't check it out because I don't use windows and my computer really doesn't like winisd very much.

Anyway, about the vent mach....that's a number that basically tells you how fast the air will be rushing in and out of the port when the subs are really cranking away. A high number means the air is going very very fast, and you'll most likely get some whistling or "rushing" sounds coming from the port. Obviously the larger the port, the slower the air coming out of it, so if that vent mach number is red or above....er, .15 I think it is, you should make the vent larger so the air won't be going quite so fast and you won't have any port noise problems.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

My vent mach on "optimum" is 0.04...so i guess it's good...

damn guess i'm going to need my math skills...just have to get the kicker book and spend some time figuring it out...

Have you ever built your own enclosure? Or just buy it... Can you buy round ports? how do they work? or should I just keep it simple...heh...



How come no one else chimes in this thread? It's been us for like the last 40 posts or more...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

I've never bought an enclosure, I've built all of them from scratch. Yes you can do round ports, just get some pvc and go to town. You can put in the round ports in winisd and it will figure out the port area and vent mach for you, you'll probably need one or 2 large ones, and they'll need to be pretty long to keep the tuning low.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm looking at the kicker technical manual...pretty neat...would be neater if they had such thorough plans for dual drivers...but I was comparing the specs between the kicker manual and the winISD and they are different...and it's not the measurments [units]...so I'm thinking now...

Can I just make 2 single enclosures and screw them together? seems like it'd work...as long as I seal up the screws good...


ok...in kicker's manual there's 5 pros under a sealed enclosure...but 1 con....the ported has 5 cons...and 3 pros... and the boxes they suggest are tuned to 26hz


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

which specs are different between the manual and winisd?

yeah you could make 2 enclosures and attach them together I guess, but that's kind of ghetto and it would end up being bigger than it has to be. It should be pretty simple to design your own, you just have to do it systematically.

1 - decide how much internal volume you need
2 - add about .2cf to account for sub displacement
3 - figure out what size and length port you need to get the tuning frequency you want and a low vent mach
4 - figure out how much volume this port will take up
5 - add that much volume to the size of your box
6 - measure around your trunk and come up with measurements for 2 of the 3 dimensions, such as height and depth, with width being whatever you need it to be
7 - subtract 1.5" from each of these 2 measurements and multiply them together
8 - multiply the final volume you got in #5 by 1728 and divide by what you got in #7, add 1.5" and this is the width of your box
9 - go out and re-measure, making sure that a box this big will fit through your trunk opening and it will sit inside your trunk nicely, if it's a tight squeeze you might want to build one out of cardboard to make sure it will fit in



I just pulled this out of my ass, so if someone else could check that would be great. I don't think I missed anything, but everyone makes mistakes.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

yeah i figured screwing 2 together would be ghetto....

almost all the specs are different...I click the box that says "show driver parameters" and it shows the qt, vas, fs etc... and compared to kickers manual they are off by alot...

like the Xmax... is 8.5 on the winISD and 13 or so in the manual [i don't have it right in front of me anymore]

So since it's looking like the ported box will be a monster...should I just go with sealed? kicker's manual seemed to be biased for sealed...putting so many good reasons for sealed...I don't know...

and I looked harder at the guides for building your own and I think ...key word here...think that they are "tuned" to 40hz for the biggest "deep bass" and 45hz for compact...what does this mean? that they are suggesting crappy frequency for their own subs? or would they work better?

ok according to the manual.... it says:

1.25cf, Fb = 45Hz
.32cf = Port vol.

power handling:
500W with 25Hz Subsonic filter set at 24 Dbl OCtave
Withour subsonic filter: 300W

that's it for Hz measurements...so I guessed that the 45hz is the tuned frequency...

i know, i'm probably an idiot and can look it up in 5 sec and find out that i'm wrong...but it's late by my standards and I need to get up at 5am so i'm sorta tired...sorry in advance then


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

yep 45hz is the tuning frequency, which is ridiculously high. That would be good for people who only play rap and don't care how it sounds, they just want it as loud as possible.

I can't believe they recommend 40hz for "deep bass", that cracks me up....my guess is "compact" means size, because a 45hz port will be shorter than a 40hz port, so the box as a whole will be smaller. Not really sure though

Strange how the specs are different, maybe winisd has the specs for last year's model. Either way, you can always click on "new driver" or whatever it's called and input all the parameters yourself, that is if you want to take the time.

Sealed might be a better option for you, it won't get as loud or play as deep, but it will be much much easier to design and build. For your first custom box it's probably a better choice, especially if you're so hesitant about getting it right. You can be off by up to ~10% on a sealed box and not notice an audible difference (providing everything still seals up right), meanwhile a 10% error on a ported box could destroy the way it sounds.

Somewhere around .75-.9cf per sub would work well sealed, you'll just have to watch the power going to them. It's much easier to bottom out a sub in a sealed box than in a low-tuned ported box, so just listen closely and if you hear the subs distorting turn it down a bit.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Well now that i've confirmed that the tuning was 40hz....then I guess it'd be good to buy that box I posted a couple days ago...since it was tuned to 39hz....The only reason I was going to build a box was to get it to the tuning frequency you suggested, the low 30s.....but I guess if Kicker recommends the ported at 40hz...maybe that's the way I should go....

What exactly does bottoming out a sub mean? Is it like going lower than it can handle or something...

I don't know....this is something that I need to figure out...which box and whether to build... so much info!

How much on average does it cost to build your own? I found a ported box that's tuned to 39hz for about 100 shipped. Can I build a box for cheaper?


ok...so i'm playing around with the winISD and put the kicker specs in it...tell me if this is wayy off...for a box with 2

W 14.84in
H 22.72
D 9.61

Vb 1.25ft^3

This is supposedly the optimum for tuning frequency of 32Hz....with the ports being 4.02 in x 4.02in...which is vent mach of 0.04....so are those dimensions WITH the ports or without?

now this is a confusing part for me...Since I have 2 subs...am I supposed to add together the suggested cubic ft for each? you said around .75 each...the "compact" suggestion is 1.25....


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

I personally think 40hz is way too high. All those rumors your hear about subs sounding sloppy and crappy in a ported box come from people sticking subs in generic ported boxes that are tuned way too high for normal music. I think it would be a much better choice to put the subs in a sealed box than in a ported box tuned so high.

Bottoming out the sub is when you send too much power to the sub and it starts moving farther than it can handle. The suspension runs out of room and you start slamming the voice coil former into the top plate, ripping spiders, etc. Basically it sounds horrible and it can destroy the sub. How much power is "too much power" completely depends on the box that the sub is in and what frequency you're playing, I was just saying that it will take less power to do this to a sub in a sealed box than a sub in a ported box in most cases.

To build your own box it should cost somewhere around $40, that includes the wood, glue, terminal cup, and screws

Those dimensions you gave would be for a box with 1. If those are external dimensions it comes out to right around 1.25cf after sub displacement, which means it doesn't include the port or the other sub. If those are internal dimensions it comes out to ~1.8cf after sub displacement, so depending on the length of the port (you didn't have that listed) it could be the size of the box for one sub including the port.

And yes for 2 subs you would add together the volume that each one needs, the .75cf that I listed would be for sealed, if you went ported it would need to be closer to 1.5-1.75cf per sub, plus the port, which means it's going to need to be a big box.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

hmm...So build myself a sealed box....

now is the difference REALLY that much between a ported and a sealed?...I am not an audiophile ...will I really be able to notice the difference?...I haven't heard very many subs...

but I want to make sure it's quality even thought it's my first system...

So i think i'll build my own sealed box...the port thing seems to be tricky for a first timer...

So the manual says that the subs should be in a .66 - 1.0cu ft sealed box.... so which should I do? the minimum or maximum? or like pick a random number inbetween?

now to buy my wiring things...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

yes the difference is very large, but the difference in box size and complexity is also very large, so it's a tradeoff. It would be better to start with sealed, then if you feel it's lacking you can always try out a ported box for about $50 more, and if you end up screwing that up for whatever reason you can just go back to sealed.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Well i just ordered the 4 gauge Amp wiring kit off of ebay...now for the fuse and holder and then i'm set...

I really want to get my subs in...so I figure that i'll leave them in the boxes they came in for now...so then I can hear the ported box sound....then I can take my time to find a good box that doesn't kill my trunk space... those will be squeezing in...

Now is that going to make me disappointed when I do hear a sealed box? The enclosures that I have now are for SPL competitions and are monsters...might even have to put one in my backseat...but i'm sure they are going to be kickass...

But I guess the bright side is that I'll hear the ported and if i do fall in love with it then I'll go along and make/find a ported box instead of a sealed...

I'll definietly have to post pics when this is finally done....just to show what this thread has led up to....this is like the longest thread in the audio section...and so much info...



OH and real quick I'm looking on ebay and those fuses are like 4$ with shipping...i bought a 150 ANL fuse...for 3$....

now is this a good fuseholder? I noticed the one you linked me to was for underhood applications and it made a big deal about it...if I get that one then I might be able to combine shipping...
Fuse holder


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

That fuse holder looks like it should work, just make sure you mount it securely in the engine bay, screw it to the sheet metal or tie strap it to the strut bar or something.

You might be disappointed going to a sealed box from ported, but you will gain some sound quality which is a plus. Make sure if you use those boxes they're in now that you set the subsonic filter on the amp to ~30hz, this will help keep the subs from unloading below tuning and ripping themselves apart (one of the downsides to ported boxes).


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Alright I got them together for $15 shipped!...Thanks so much for your help...I couldn't imagine doing this by myself! there's just sooo much.

So what does a subsonic filter do? [I'm just trying to learn stuff here and i figure you don't mind answering...if my questions are annoying then i'll hold off on questions until it's time for the big wiring questions]

:thumbup: 

As of now I have everything I need to start installing...what kind of wire would I use for the Big 3? speaker wire? or the power wire?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

well, I can give you the short version or the long version. I'll start with the short version and if you want to know more, just ask and I'll do the long version.

When a sub in a ported box starts playing below the tuning frequency of the box, the excursion goes insane and the sub starts moving VERY far. This is called unloading and the sub can easily bottom out if you aren't careful. A subsonic filter is just like a highpass filter for your mids and highs, it cuts out the low frequencies so they don't cause the sub to unload and destroy itself.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

oh and for the big 3 you would use power wire, 4 gauge at the minimum


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Ahh so the subsonic filter would stop everything below 30hz if that's what you set it to? cool... are there any other things that need to be set on an amp?

Now I have to just sit and wait for my stuff to come in...then the big install...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

well it's not like a brick wall, it doesn't just block everything below what it's set at, but you have the right idea. It actually attenuates the signal as it goes below the cutoff frequency (the number you set it to), so as the frequency goes lower and lower the power being sent to the sub gradually decreases. So by the time you hit the point where the sub starts unloading ridiculously (about a half an octave below the tuning frequency), the power being sent to it is low enough where it won't cause any damage.

Other things that need to be set on an amp are the gain and the lowpass filter. The gain is used to match the amp's input sensitivity to the output voltage of the headunit or line driver or LOC. There are tutorials all over the place online that give steps to set the gain properly, don't just turn it to an arbitrary spot and assume it will be ok, especially since you'll be overpowering the subs somewhat. The lowpass filter is just like an inverted subsonic filter, it's used to keep the high frequencies out of the sub so it sticks just to the subbass frequencies. You would want to set this somewhere around 80hz. There is also a bass boost, you can use this if you want, but I wouldn't. It just boosts a certain frequency to make it seem like the sub is louder, but all you have to do is just turn up the sub and everything it plays will get louder, not just one frequency. Some people like it, some people don't, just the way of life.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

That's cool...

How long do you think it'd take 2 people, one with moderate knowledge of car audio and me, to install these subs?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

several hours, I would just set aside at least a whole day

Start around noon on say a saturday, don't make any plans for the rest of the day, and when you finish you finish


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So I have my 4 gauge wiring kit in the mail, same with the 150 Amp fuse and the holder...and i have my subs and amps and the old boxes...I believe I have everything...

So, if you don't mind, Can I have a quick run through of the wiring, like what to do first, second...etc...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

hmmmm....are you still planning on using the stock headunit? If so do you have the line output converters yet?

moving on
1 - remove negative battery cable
2 - remove negative battery cable
3 - have you removed the negative battery cable yet?
4 - go to step 1
5 - strip off about a half an inch of the power wire's insulation (I like to use a pocket knife)
6 - put a ring terminal on the end, I like to use a hammer
7 - attach this to the positive battery clamp, there should be a bolt or 2 on it, just use one of those
8 - route the wire a little bit, kind of tucking it out of the way
9 - when you reach an open spot where you can attach the fuse holder (try to make this within 2 feet of the battery), cut the cable, strip the 2 ends, attach them to each end of the fuse holder, and mount the fuse holder to the engine bay (zip ties, screws whatever...and that reminds me, go buy a lot of zip ties, they're god's gift to installers)
10 - route the wire some more (using zip ties), find one of the grommets in the firewall, cut a hole in it, and run the wire through it
11 - run the wire through the car, pulling up the panels and the rear seats as you go until you reach the trunk
12 - find a spot and a way to mount the amp, this might be the hardest and most time consuming part. The important things to keep in mind when selecting a spot are that the amp is mounted securely, it's not going to be in the way of your sub box(es), and there's nothing obstructing the heatsink
13 - finish running your power wire to the amp, lay it out exactly how it's going to be run, cut it and attach the cable to the +12V terminal on the amp
14 - find a bolt close to the amp, lots of people use the seat belt bolts. Remove the bolt and grind away all the paint in that spot using a dremel or a drill with a grinder attachment or a file or whatever
15 - attach a ring terminal to one end of your ground wire and bolt it to this bolt
16 - run the ground to your amp and attach it to the ground terminal
17 - if you are using a LOC go to step 18, if you're using an aftermarket headunit with rca outputs go to step 20
18 - look under the rear deck where the rear speakers are mounted, you'll need to tap into the speaker wires running to these speakers. How you go about doing this is up to you, some people use wire taps, some people strip the wire and solder on some of their own making sort of a "T", some people cut the wire and splice it back together with their own wire branching off, it's up to you. Anyway, this wire runs to the input of the LOC
19 - mount the LOC to the bottom of the rear deck and run rcas down the side of the trunk around to the rca input on your amp, go to step 21
20 - remove the headunit and run the rcas from the preouts, through your dash, and back to your amp using the OPPOSITE side of the car as the power wire.
21 - if you're using and aftermarket headunit you can get the remote wire while you're doing the rcas, just run a wire from the headunit's remote output along with the rcas back the amp and hook it to the "rem" terminal. If you're using a loc you're going to have to find somewhere to get your remote turn on, not the easiest but the most reliable place is to go to the fuse box by the steering wheel and find one that turns on and off with the ignition. How you find this wire is the tricky part, the best way is to use a multimeter, if you don't have a multimeter....well, I'm not really sure.
22 - replace all those panels and seats you pulled up, attach the speaker wire from the speaker output on the amp to the subs (making sure that they're wired right first), and double and triple check the wiring at the amp. The most important stuff is that the wire coming from the battery is running to the +12V terminal and the ground is going to the ground. Elementary stuff I know, but if you mix these up accidently you can say bye bye to your amp once you reattach the negative battery cable. Also, while your at it set the gain fully counter-clockwise and set all the other switches and dials to the general spot that I went over before.
23 - after making sure everything is in order, reattach the negative battery cable. There will be a spark so don't be alarmed, just put it on there and tighten it down
24 - go back to the amp, make sure there's no smoke coming out and that there are no lights on
25 - turn on the car and the headunit but put the volume to 0, make sure that the amp is on, no music is coming out of the subs, and the protection light is not on
26 - turn up the volume slightly so you can just hear the music, go back to the subs, make sure both of them are moving (you might have to feel the cone which is alright, just be gentle and barely touch it with your fingertip, don't jam it in with your fist)
27 - turn it up louder so you can hear them playing, make sure the amp is still fine, and start tuning


damn that was long....really the order of anything doesn't matter at all, just as long as you disconnect the negative battery cable first and reattach it last. As long as you do those right, the order of the power, ground, rcas, speaker wire, remote wire, etc doesn't matter in the slightest.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

wow...thanks for the rundown...

now I asked earlier do I need a LOC still because I already have a sub and amp wired in my car. I thought there was something already there since i'm not working with a complete empty stock car....then You said that all I need was the wiring kit...So maybe you were already counting that I was going to get the LOC or something....

So I do need a LOC? If so can you point me to one?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

you already have a sub and amp? man I must have missed that whole part, or are you talking about the stock one?


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm talking about the stock one because of the RF package....heh... I wasn't sure if you thought there was nothing or if doesn't matter or what....I have the 8" rockford sub and the little bitty clarion amp...wasn't sure if they had something I could salvage

So I need a LOC?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

yes you'll need a LOC, like the NE-8V on http://www.davidnavone.com/ (it's the top one)


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> yes you'll need a LOC, like the NE-8V on http://www.davidnavone.com/ (it's the top one)


hmm...ok...I'll have to look at it when i get home on ebay...


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Alright...I couldn't find that LOC anywhere else...so I bought it off of dave navone...it's shipping priority and I got the wiring kit in the mail today....Damn those wires are huge!

I think the install day might be next saturday...hopefully...


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So saturday is officially the install day....

I was looking at the sub that came wired in the box....the 2 wires say that they are power wires...10 guage....can I use that for the big 3 if it's needed?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

no, 10 gauge is too small, you should do the big 3 in 4 gauge or larger


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

When choosing a place to mount the Amp....I've seen alot just mounted to the sub enclosure...but i talked to someone else who thought that might be bad for the amp...

Is there an optimum place for the amp? I was thinking either mounted on one of the boxes or on the back of my back seat....


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

back seat, floor of the trunk, backside of the enclosure, it doesn't really matter as long as it's mounted securely. If it's mounted to the enclosure it will make things easier to steal though.

Some people say it's a bad idea to put it on the enclosure because the vibration will kill it, but that's total BS. Mainly because there's more vibration in the chassis of the car while you're driving than there ever will be on the sub's enclosure, if small vibrations were a problem for amps, mounting them on the subwoofer box would actually be _better_ for them than mounting them straight to the trunk.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

WEll it's all in....finally...

So it took a long time to run the wires all nicely down the side of the car. The amp came with a cool remote bass equalizer so we mounted it where the ashtray should be since I don't have one, only a perfect little hole. Looks pretty cool. Then we were running out of time, it was late so we just hooked everything up in the trunk and probably next week going to mount everything nice and pretty. 

One thing we did find out....is that the stock amp had to stay in the car. We removed all the stock stuff and took a drive [ so not to annoy the neighbors] and found out i had no sound coming out of my front speakers. Once we re-hooked up the stock amp everything worked.

I found a few forums that talked about the ideal settings for the amp stuff, like phase, level, subsonic and stuff....I set them to what people suggested but maybe it's the break-in period for the subs but it's not very hard hitting, boomy...it's like a bassy-muddy blur of sound...and if I set the bass to 0 [normal] i get no bass out of the subs, even if the bass EQ on the sub is turned all the way up. In short....my old 8" rattled my car more than these are at the moment.

but overall the install wasn't tooo hard...thank god you were on IM to answer the questions imediately...would have taken 30 minutes of searching the internet for a related topic and trying to figure it out that way....but if I had to do it again probably would take half the time. It's really amasing how cars are put together in the inside....

I'll post pics when i load them....and also try to not show the ghetto thrown in the trunk wiring....heh

:cheers:


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

haha, well it's good that you got it all in, it always seems to take me longer than I plan for no matter how many times I do it. About the sound, they shouldn't need to break in because they're used right? You might have some things set badly, or it might just be the box they're in. The box will make or break the sub, and I don't know of 1 prefab box that's actually the proper size for the sub it's "designed for". Plus yours are ported, and again since they're prefabs they probably have a ridiculously high tuning frequency. They should be loud though, maybe it's the music you were listening to, maybe it's the way the amp is set, or maybe you accidently wired them to 4ohm....there are a bunch of possibilities.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

The boxes were actually made by the kid...he exchanged the subs he had in it for new ones....so they aren't used [ i told you i got a sweet deal] The sub came brand spanking new in the box....complete with stickers :thumbup: 

Any suggestions on optimum settings for the amp? I'm pretty sure...completely sure they are wired for 1ohm... + to + to + and -to-to- [the positives wired together and then one wire to the amp and the same with the negatives]

Here's a pic of one of the boxes...











And here's the ghetto trunk install....it's my bfs crappy camera that has no non-zoom...so i was stuck against the garage door and tried to actually get the trunk....but not much luck....I'll take a better picture later...









I have to add this...did you know the trunk release inside the trunk glows in the dark? heh....I thought it was cool...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

I can't get the pictures to work....

Anyway, sounds like you have them wired right, try turning the amp's lowpass filter to around 100hz, and slowly turn it down to see if the sound improves. The gain should be set with test tones while listening for clipping, there are tutorials all around the net, if you can't find one then I'll type it out (I'm pretty sure I've gone through it on this forum before though).


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I'll look around some more for the amp settings stuff...

Man....when I previewed my post the pics worked...damnit....oh well....the boxes are freakin huge! both of them take up my trunk... but's just the quick ghetto solution for getting them in...

well here's where the pics are...I was showing the box, the sorta finished product and the cool glow in the dark thing
Pics

And one more thing....I can probably figure out all the other generic things on the amp but what about the voltage know where it's 9v to .2 v? Where should that be set? I know if depends on the headunit...but i didn't even touch the headunit for this install...

oh yeah...another thing...i have a bass equalizer on my amp and then a remote one that we wired into where the ashtray would go, Do they compliment each other or should I set the one on the amp to 0 or all the way up? Because i used the remote one for my controls...


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So i've spent a good amount of time searchin on the forum and I just can't find what you were talking about....if you could just link me, to save you some typing...it'd be appreciated....


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

That 9v to .2v dial is the gain
http://www.nissanforums.com/showthread.php?t=46843&highlight=gain+setting

and here's a little explanation of exactly what it does and all that fun stuff
http://www.bcae1.com/gaincon2.htm

Those boxes are definitely pretty big, but that's how ported boxes are unfortunately....it's the tradeoff for a sick increase in output over sealed boxes.

About the bass knob, do you have any idea if it's a remote gain knob or a remote bass boost? Depending on which it is you'll need to treat it differently.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Ahh....in the manual it says consult your headunit for the voltage or something like that....then I looked up the settings and someone else says you set it to your headunit...

the manual says:
"HFR-1 bass remote controls bass gain from a remote location. Includes a 18' cord and the HFR-1 control. Also features "On" LED and "Diagnostics" LED."

so in the manual...I have these settings:

subsonic: 15hz-35hz
Bass EQ : 0db-18db [this is also my remote thing]
lowpass: 35hz - 250hz
Phase: 0-180
Level: 9v - 0.2v

So the manual explains the level as : "allows you to match the amplifier input (gain) to the radio/cd output level" What exactly does that mean? 

This thing sucks trying to explain...all it says is like subsonic allows control from15hz to 35hz...well that's nice...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Well the description makes it sound like your remote is a remote gain control, are you sure it controls that 0-18dB boost and not the gain?

The subsonic filter is a highpass filter that attenuates the low frequencies to keep the sub from unloading in a high-tuned ported box. You should probably set it to ~30hz, at least until you find out what the tuning frequency of those boxes is.

The lowpass should be around 60-100, it's just personal taste on this one, no setting will damage your equipment in any way

The phase again is personal taste, unless you have well-trained ears I doubt you'll be able to hear the difference between 0 and 180 degrees

The level is the gain. Amps are pretty simple when you just look at what they do. They get an input of a certain voltage, they step up this voltage a certain amount, and then they send it to the speakers. At full output an amp will have a certain voltage at its speaker terminals, for a 100 watt amp driving a 4ohm load, this will be 20 volts. Now no matter what voltage is feeding the amp through the rcas, it will step it up as much as it needs to to get 20 volts. The gain knob is your control over how much the amp "steps up" the input. Going back to this example I just used, if you have 5V preouts feeding the amp, it will need to increase it by a factor of 4 before putting it out to the speakers (5*4=20). If you have 2V preouts, it will need to increase it by a factor of 10, if you have 1V preouts, it will need to increase it by 20, it's pretty simple stuff. The markings on the gain knob look like they're backwards at first, with 9V being the min and .2V being the max, but when you think about it that's actually right. With a more powerful input voltage the amp won't need to amplify the signal much at all to reach its full output, with a small input voltage the amp will really need to crank up the amplitude to get its full output.

So theoretically if you had 5V preouts you would set the gain to 5V, if you had 2V preouts you would set the gain to 2V, etc. In the real world it's not as perfect though, since some headunits don't actually put out the voltage they advertise (older alpines claimed 4V but only put out 2V on the sub channel, many of the eclipse models claim 8V but only put out a little over 5V, etc), so instead of turning it to the right number, instead you set it by listening for clipping, which I went through in that link I gave in my last post.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I have no idea whether it's a bass boost or gain...I can't say I would know what the gain would sound like. On my guitar amps the gain would act as a compliment to distortion. So I was using it more as a volume knob, then again those were guitar amps

...when i turn up the knob on my remote bass thing, the booming gets more intense. Like when i'm entering the city i just turn down the bass knob and can pretty much keep my music the same loudness...

when I was playing the first night i had my amp...granted i have not still been able to get into my trunk safely to tune whatsoever...i'm always at a place where i always park and i don't think that's a good idea for potential theives.[ ie, work, school, MY HOUSE!]

anyways i didn't have any bass when we first turned them on...then i had to turn my HU's bass up to +5 and then fiddle with the amp...I could hear a HUGE increase with the phase knob...like 0 and then 180 was booming...

Why do I have to have my HU up to +5 on the bass to hear/ feel anything? If i put it down to 0 which is normal, i don't get like any bass..


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## FletchSpecV (Nov 26, 2002)

Ok, so I've finally read through this whole long post to see if anyone would touch on taking out the stock RF 8" sub...and no one did!! I've done the whole rewiring every damned speaker and I've got a JL 8 in the trunk hooked up to a kicker zr120 (Old school, :thumbup: ) but I have never figured out how to take out the enclosure and sub that holds the factory RF 8! Does anyone have any directions for taking out the factory sub? Thanks!! Oh, I like everybody elses setups too! Later,
Fletch


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

if you unbolt the back of the backseat, there's these HUGE metal brackets. i think 3 screws all together to get that monster out! You might also have to lift up the bottom of the backseat. It didn't take too long. Finding the bolts was the hardest


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

well if it goes silent when you turn it down, that sounds like a remote gain control. What you would want to do is turn this up about half way or so, and then set the gain on the amp like you would normally. Then when you're done, you'll be able to control the level with that knob, and as long as you don't go over half way and you don't turn your vol past where you set it at, you should never have to worry about clipping.

You're right about guitar amps, on those the gain is a completely different function, unfortunately it has the same name. I don't know why they chose to give it the same name, but it does make it pretty confusing. There's no real home theater equivalent of the gain control, because in home equipment everything has 2V preouts, so there's no need to have a control to match the input sensitivity of each piece of equipment since everything is the same, they can just hardwire the gain at 2V in the circuitry.

I'm not sure why you have to turn the bass up so high to hear it, it probably has something to do with how the amp is set


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I just set the subsonic and i think it was the low pass... and it made the world of difference....holy god...I had my HU at +5 and the "bass boost" is what we'll call it now at like 1/4 of the way up...and the damn thing was shaking!

Probably all my "woes" were just the amp wasn't set right...I finally found a hidden place to adjust a little where I would have to worry about people casing my car. 

UNfortunately this weekend is when everything is getting bolted down for good and such so the stock amp right now is just sitting on my sub boxes and the trunk ...poles i guess i'll call them, the ones on the top that move as the trunk opens and closes. WEll that's hitting the stock amp and everytime i hit a bump it sounds like i have a box of plates in my trunk...the first few times it scared me because i thought it was my subs or amp...lol

all in all I think the subs are sounding better everyday....my brother swears it made his ear bleed...haha...he's 13 and he thinks it's so cool when I drop him off at school with the subs and the exhaust...but he said the top of his ear was bleeding just suddenly after i dropped him off....last time I checked if something was damamged by a sub...the canal part of the ear would be bleeding...lol


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

haha, well that's good to hear

I know what he means about it hurting....the first week after I ported my sub my jaw hurt constantly, I could barely eat. Every time someone makes me "demo" the system (since no one around here cares about sound quality, "demoing the system" just means playing some bass testing songs loud, lol) they always get out of the car massaging their jaw.

As they break in the suspension will most likely loosen up and you'll gain a little output, but the amount that you gain really varies, I'm not sure how much of a difference you'll hear on some L7s.

I always go to the farthest empty corner of a grocery store parking lot when I do my tuning, and then I drive around a bit before going back to my house. Seems to work out pretty well


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## FletchSpecV (Nov 26, 2002)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> if you unbolt the back of the backseat, there's these HUGE metal brackets. i think 3 screws all together to get that monster out! You might also have to lift up the bottom of the backseat. It didn't take too long. Finding the bolts was the hardest


Awesome! Thanks a lot!!


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

ok...not letting this thread die just yet...

I'm back on the box trail because those monsters are taking a car length away from me speed wise...

The kid who sold me the subs said he built the boxes I have...and they are pretty nice. I'm thinking about having him build me a box for both subs that fits my car...

first of all, Is there anyway to lighten the load of those subs...obviously the lack of the 2 huge boxes will help...but what about building a box...any weight reduction tricks? that won't compromise quality...

Secondly, I was told that building your own box costs probably 40$ or so and a few hours....how much should I pay this kid? The ones on the internet that are at 39hz ported are about 100 with shipping. I don't really want to pay over that...unless he does a cool ass custom job, but how cool can a box be...

I think that's it... :thumbup:


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

The only way to save weight is to use something lighter than mdf. The only real choice you have is fiberglass, and if you do that the cost of having it made for you skyrockets (a ported FG box for a pair of 10's would be hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Subs are heavy, the sub I have weighs in at a little over 40lbs, and the box is another 50lbs or so. You get kinda used to it, the only thing that pissed me off was when I had progress springs, the rear would sag and make the car look like crap, but then I got coilovers and I dropped the front to match, so now I'm happy again 

About having one custom made, expect to spend over $100 for a custom ported box of that size. I'm actually having my box built for me right now (I got lazy) and it was $135 for a 2.7cf sealed box. Don't bother going to a local audio shop, they'll try to ream you in the ass if you ask them to make you a custom box. I think they quoted me around $160 for a 1cf sealed box, and if I wanted it carpetted it was $180. You can make your own for around $50, but it will take quite a bit of planning.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Yeah i realized fiberglass was the only other, lighter option....but I wanted to make sure...

Ok, um...I'm sure if I didn't write my post very well or you misunderstood the "custom" box....

Basically there's this kid who's probably 18-19. he's the one who sold me the subs. He just wants to make money to save up for a new car...so I asked him who made the boxes he gave me...and he said he did...So i said I was interested in having a box made.

I wouldn't put him in the category of "custom-box maker". More like the neighborhood kid you give a few bucks to mow your lawn...heh.

yeah I went to an audio shop and they wanted 300+ for a box made out of wood! with fiberglass inside...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

hehe, well it's still custom, and a lot of work goes into building a box. You have to get the supplies, measure and plan out how you're going to cut the wood so you only need 1 sheet of mdf, cut it, set it up making sure everything fits right, glue 2 pieces together, clamp them and screw them together, and then move onto the next 2 pieces. Then when it's done you have to sand away all the excess glue, and then you have to start carpetting it. I mean it's not hard but it's time consuming, building a ported box for a pair of 10's would be nearly an entire day to go from no plan at all to a fully completed box. Then you take into account ~$50 or so in supplies, and if you paid him $80 he's only making $30 for an entire day's hard work. I don't know about him, but I wouldn't be willing to waste an entire saturday just for a measly $30. All depends on the person though.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

heh....yeahh...but this is the kid i talked out of selling the subs on ebay for 400 and give them to me for 250 [ they were half brand new in the box 2004s retail for 350 EACH on crutchfield]....moohaha....I know i'm evil...  

The only thing that's preventing me from doing it myself is trying to figure out the volume...and tuning....I just could not get that program to work...If i had plans...and measurements i would have no problem making it....just figuring all that crap out...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

yeah it takes some work figuring all that out, that's why I took the easy way out on my brahma box and let geolemon from www.caraudioforum.com build it for me.

me = lazy


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So I took a look at his website...looks like nice stuff. Would you recommend him? Better than getting the other kid to build it?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

yeah his boxes do look nice, I'm sure it would be more well built than the kid's would, but I'm sure it would also be quite a bit more expensive (shipping is a bitch). It's up to you though


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Well...I wanted to just buy the plans...so that would get rid of the annoying part...I personally think that the building would be fun...I love to learn new things...and just doing this stereo thing i've been able to help like 3 people and actually be able to answer someone's questions....heh ...that's new for me....at least with cars...

BUT, now my boyfriend says that we could figure out the plans....and there's no need to buy them....I already emailed the guy and said you recommended him...hopefully you don't mind. I haven't gotten an email back. I just asked general questions...

now i was wondering and thinking...and my imagination gets the most of me...

Can you build A) a box with 5 of the 6 panels out of MDF and the last one using plexi-glass or B) make a box completely out of plexi-glass....

Now i know nothing about plexiglass....i just wanted to do something a little more than just a boring wood box...maybe get a little ricerish and put some neons in the box or something...i don't know...I just like to explore all my options...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

A - yes, just as long as it's sealed up completely, just like if you had an mdf panel in there instead

B - sure


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So the plexi-glass or whatever won't effect sound quality at all?


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## Punkrocka436 (Jul 8, 2003)

if the plexiglass isnt thick enough and it flexes, SQ will decrease, but as long as it doesnt flex it should be fine


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Yeahh...I think the plexi-glass was just a wild thought...probably go with the boring box....

I think this weekend we'll be working with the numbers so i might have some questions...


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Actually I do have a question...

It's official I'm building the box by myself along with making the plans...good learning...

anyways... The kicker manual says for 10" L7 sub that the "compact" size would be 1.25 cu. ft + port. 2.5 x 11.25'"port. 19.75" long

for the "street bass" size would be 1.75 cu. ft + port. 2.75 x 11.25" port, 17.75" long


So does that mean it's at a tuning frequency already...like kicker picked the best frequency and just told the volume for it? 

So as long as i make a box that has 1.75 cu ft for example and stick the port on....it'll be good? [ all figure of speech, i fully realize i can't just glue a port on]


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

yes they give you all the info you would need to build the box, you just have to find a way to fit it all together into a single box. A lot of times the factory doesn't give you the best box plans though, they'll give you something that will make it get very loud but not sound too good, or they'll give you something that's very small so it will fit in your car but won't sound very good. Sometimes they will give you good plans though, but I would still plug them into a box program to see what kind of tuning frequency those boxes will give you, then you can "tweak" them slightly to your advantage.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Alright....I'm back...one more question...

I'm having that guy you recommended to make some custom plans for 10$...

he needs to know that subwoofer displacement....I was looking at the technical journal on Kicker's website and I found "displacement, cc" which was 1830 and then there was also "Displacement, Culn" which is 111.8...

Are those the subwoofer displacements? and which one would I give him?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

1830 cubic centimeters is the same as 111.8 cubic inches, just different measurement systems, so you can give him either and it will be fine as long as you tell him the units. Or you can use .065 cubic feet


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Ahhh makes sense...thanks 

I don't see why they just don't use regular abbreviations...


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

ok for my custom plans i was asked a few additional questions...all of which i have no idea...Suggestions??

"Would you like the side panels recessed a small amount (usually .25", if anything at all) to facilitate something like carpeting, or would you simply like them flush to the sides of the enclosure?" 

"Would you like a center divider in the enclosure?" 

"If ported, how about a slot port, centered between the two subs?"

"If ported, what port opening area are you targeting?"


I'm not really sure...will any of these affect sound quality?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

*"Would you like the side panels recessed a small amount (usually .25", if anything at all) to facilitate something like carpeting, or would you simply like them flush to the sides of the enclosure?" *

Are you planning on carpetting the box? Recessing the sides will make it look better, but it's a little more difficult

*"Would you like a center divider in the enclosure?"*

Do you want a common chamber or separate ones? A common chamber will be easier to build, but you can be sure that if you happen to blow one of the subs, the other one will blow very quickly unless you turn down the volume immediately

*"If ported, how about a slot port, centered between the two subs?"*

Just asking you where you want the port

*"If ported, what port opening area are you targeting?"*

How much port area do you want? For a pair of 10L7s I would go for around 60 square inches


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> "Would you like the side panels recessed a small amount (usually .25", if anything at all) to facilitate something like carpeting, or would you simply like them flush to the sides of the enclosure?"


It would be easier to hide any imperfections if you were to recess the ends and cover with another thinner piece of MDF, like this:










But dont mind the Sony Exploder sub, they suck azz, and I wouldnt even use them to pick up nails with their magnets!


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> "If ported, how about a slot port, centered between the two subs?"
> 
> "If ported, what port opening area are you targeting?"


Do a google search for "winisd" its a ported box building program (freeware even) You enter your sub's TS parameters and it will give you some port dimensions for whatever frequency you wish to tune your box to.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I already have all the tuning stuff figured out

I was thinking about putting a center divider, seems to be smarter...at least if i blow a sub...can't be THAT much harder to build....right?


"*"If ported, how about a slot port, centered between the two subs?"*
Just asking you where you want the port"
yeah I figured that but wanted to make sure...slot port through me off



"*"If ported, what port opening area are you targeting?"*
How much port area do you want? For a pair of 10L7s I would go for around 60 square inches"

What is a port area? like the amount of area a port takes up? I figure that this affects SQ right?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

yeah it's always a good idea to put a center divider when you have a box with multiple subs, it's not that much harder to do at all, it's just an extra board you have to put in the middle of the box.

a slot port just means a rectangular port made out of mdf, instead of a round port made out of say, pvc.

The port area is the cross sectional area of the port. It does affect sound quality somewhat, basically if the port is too small, the air will be moving too fast and you'll get sort of a whistling sound called port noise. So you want the port large enough where you won't get noise, but not too big because the your box becomes huge (the larger the cross sectional area of the port is, the longer it has to be to keep the tuning the same, which takes up more room and makes the box bigger).


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm talking with the audio guy to get me custom plans and he's saying that Kicker recommends a box to be tuned to 45hz and he says that's the best for boominess....i thought low 30s would be better wouldn't it? At least thats what you guys said earlier


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

45 would definitely get louder, but low 30's would sound cleaner. It's a tradeoff


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So I want a good thump that rattles the hell outta my car, but I also want good low end SQ...what would you suggest the tuning be?

and in louder what do you mean?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

35hz would probably be a good compromise


*and in louder what do you mean?*
um, it's pretty self-explanatory....if you tuned to 45hz the subs would be louder than if you tuned at say 35hz, but it wouldn't sound as good


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

ok, i wasn't sure if in louder you meant just volume louder or louder bass, like booming....

So I guess i'll go for 35hz...


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## sentdawg (Oct 27, 2004)

...man i just slapped sum audiobahn 15's with a rockford fosgate amp and a cap.. with a panasonic ghost face touch screen...dat wud get u rockin fasho


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

I've resurrected the thread....

I'm back...not sure if I updated but everyone who offered or i was going to pay haven't gotten back to me in 2 months...so i'm on my own building a box...i found some good websites and did some calculations...I just want someone with experience to check my numbers...

SO using this website 

I came up with these numbers

So my calculations are:
1.75cu. ft per sub which is 3024cu. inches
The port is 2.75''x 11.25" and 17.75" long so the volume is 549.1 cu inches
The displacement of the sub is 1830cc which is 111.8cu inches

so the total cu in needed is: 3684.9cu inches or 2.1324 cu ft PER sub... so together i'll need 4.2648cu ft [7369.57cu inches]

Then the guy says to subtract the thickness of the MDF from the total available space...so i'll get:

35 -1.5 = 33.5in
14 -1.5 = 12.5in 

so 7369.57 divided by 12.5 = 589.5656
589.5656 divided by 33.5 = 17.5989 inches deep

so my box should be 35x14x17.5

NOW...I want to put a center brace/divide the subs so they are in separate chambers...would i subtract 35 - 2.25 because of the extra .75 of MDF in the center?



And also...i've sorta abandoned NF and haven't been on in months but why am i back at 244 posts?? I was at like 600!


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

well I found out the post count thing but there's no edit button now...so no responses please unless it's about my sub box...

btw where can i get one of those plastic circle connectors that you put on the enclosure for cleaner wire connecting?


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## alexinpg (Oct 5, 2004)

Radio Shack.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

your numbers look fine, just a few questions

1 - you have the box height as 14", which makes the internal box height 12.5", yet your port is only 11.25" tall? Where is that extra 1.25" above or below the port going to go? You could build it this way, but it would take a lot of extra wood to limit the port height to only 11.25" while the box is 12.5" tall, it would be much easier to just make the port 12.5" tall, and cut the width to 2.5" to keep the same port area and tuning.

2 - when you did the dimensions, the 17.5" that you came up with is the internal dimension, you need to add 1.5" to get the external dimension, so the box will be 35x14x19

3 - yes if you add a center divider you need to subtract 2.25" instead of 1.5" on the width like you thought, but if you make a center divider you'll need to have 2 ports, one per side, so make sure you account for that. And make sure you account for the volume taken up by the port wall, you did the volume for the port, but the .75" wall running the length of the port takes up space too.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

whew..yeah...

I really didn't even think about the port hieght...I just blindly plugged in numbers...

I was under the impression that the subs would sound nicer if they were in seperate chambers, each with thier own port... is this correct?


*Redo of sub calculations:*

still 1.75 cu. ft per sub which is 3024cu. inches

The Port ...this is what i didn't understand. Kicker says basically that 2.75''x 11.25" and 17.75" long so the volume is 549.1 cu inches...
you said to cut down the 2.75 to 2.5 and raise the 11.25 to 12.5...but those calculations get a volume of 554.68cu 
inches...i know that's just a little but...

The displacement is still of the sub is 1830cc which is 111.8cu inches


35 - 3.75 [0.75x 5 which includes center divider,end pieces of mdf and port pieces] = 31.25
14 - 1.5 = 12.5


so 7369.57 divided by 12.5 = 589.5656
589.5656 divided by 31.25 = 18.86 + 1.5 = 20.36...so 20.5

and the last part...i'm not clear about the volume the port wall takes up...what would that be?/how do I get it?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

honestly the best thing to do would be to draw it out so you could get a graphical view of what it will look like, then the port wall displacement and everything will just fall into place.

as for the port, you're right, it should actually be a 2.475" width, but I just rounded that extra 1/40 of an inch off. You said this is the size that kicker recommends? Do they recommend this size port for 1 sub or 2? If it's for 2 then you can use it, but you'll have to have the subs in a common chamber box with this 1 port. If it's for 1 then you can divide the box like you wanted to do (it's always a good idea) and you'll need 2 of these ports, one for each chamber. Or you could always just come up with your own size port using winisd or bassbox pro


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Yeah I ended up drawing it out to get all the pieces of MDF that have to be calculated into the box...

The port size that kicker suggests is for one sub so I was planning on putting a center divider

So my box should be 35x14x20.5....sound right?

How do you determine the tuning if you're not using a program?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

yeah that sounds about right

There are equations out there to determine the tuning, I think one of them is on JL Audio's website. They're pretty complicated, it's normally easier to just use a program because you just plug in the box size, tuning frequency, port area and number, and it will give you the length, then you can just tweak it how you want.


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## gabester222 (Jan 7, 2005)

*no need to re wire*

hey man, i did it all myself and if you go on ebay they have service manual with all the spec v wiring diagrams for all the stereo systems made. if you look on the stock amp in the trunck there are two plugs one is the imputs from the deck, and one is the outputs to the speakers. if you want to put in amps, just hook them up to the output wires. you will obviously have to cut all the wires, just leave enough length to hook your plug back up if you ever sell the car. the diagrams are pretty user friendly.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

gabester222 said:


> hey man, i did it all myself and if you go on ebay they have service manual with all the spec v wiring diagrams for all the stereo systems made. if you look on the stock amp in the trunck there are two plugs one is the imputs from the deck, and one is the outputs to the speakers. if you want to put in amps, just hook them up to the output wires. you will obviously have to cut all the wires, just leave enough length to hook your plug back up if you ever sell the car. the diagrams are pretty user friendly.


Sorry but what the hell are you talking about? obviously you haven't read any of this thread because that's already been asked, answered and installed.


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## pizzaguyATL (Dec 13, 2004)

*help with a decision*

I need help to find two 8" subs.. i have a kenwood 800 w amp and i have very little space just need two eights for my crew cab.. i already blew one set of subs, and i dont want to waste any more money... thanks


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

pizzaguyATL said:


> I need help to find two 8" subs.. i have a kenwood 800 w amp and i have very little space just need two eights for my crew cab.. i already blew one set of subs, and i dont want to waste any more money... thanks


I would check earlier in this thread where good brand name subs were mentioned then go on Ebay and find them there. Ebay's usually the cheapest...


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

IT'S DONE!!!

Finally after all those questions and the months of waiting...my install is completely done!

I just finished making my own box and it sounds great










mounted my amp on the back of the box so when you lower the seats it looks like this









Thanks for all the help and answers


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

alexinpg said:


> Radio Shack.


and the connecters I got at RadioSHIT broke...pieces of crap


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

looks good

sucks about the connectors, I normally get mine at www.partsexpress.com or home depot, depending on what specifically I need


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

yeah these pulled apart as soon as the wire went in...ended up breaking the plastic and soldering the 2 pieces of wire together and just let it hang through the black plastic hole


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## Heath Burge (Jan 12, 2005)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> OK...I'm sorry in advance if this is somewhere on the boards, I looked...And couldn't find my specific question...
> 
> Ok, I am once again wandering into the unknown realm of car audio. I have the stock RF package that came with the 04 spec V...I got it because it came with the car...Now i've gotten a taste of bass and would love to beef up my system with a new head unit, bigger subs [ sony xplods? 12s] and I guess a bigger amp...Do i have to trash [sell] my whole current system or is there things that are salvagable?
> 
> ...



go with JL or OZ auido best u can get or get high end RF stuff


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Heath Burge said:


> go with JL or OZ auido best u can get or get high end RF stuff


Newbies...please stop replying to a thread that's 8 months old and if you looked at the last post shows that i'm done with it ...


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## Xxboarderxx (Nov 11, 2004)

*Get Rockfords*

get a pionner 7500. It is really good. WMA/MP3 works good with systems has crossover options and shit. Gewt rockford fosgate hx2 they hit hard has fuck. OK than spekaers i would recommand rockford as well


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

sigh


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## Heliosphann (Jan 24, 2005)

Okay I read some of what was posted throught this neverending post, but I wanted to see if someone could lay it down to me plain and simple.

Basically what I want is a new head unit (JVC has a new unit that has front panel aux inputs) so I can play my MP3 player through my Rockford Fosgate system. I want to keep everything, just add a new head unit. It's my understanding that everything needs to be totally rewired. Could someone go into detail about that and if I'd be able to sill use the sub, amp, etc... Thx.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Quoting SR20Demon
"You cannot just replace the headunit, you cannot just replace the speakers....it's really a pain. If you want to change out anything, you pretty much have to change out the whole thing."


taken from this thread link 


You have the RF package but no aux input on the front of your stock HU?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

that was with the Bose system, with the RF system you can, but you'll need to do a bit of rewiring for an aftermarket headunit to work without double amping the speakers. There are wiring diagrams somewhere but I'm not sure where


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## Sanguinius (Mar 3, 2005)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> hey sr20dem0n, i'm back with the stupid audio questions...
> 
> first of all what's SQl and SpL? I'm completely a newbie in the audio field...
> 
> ...


LOL Bring it on out I can do most installations LOL (VA here) as for the budget and whatnot it all depends the quality you want. I myself like the Rockford amps and is what I use in my car but due to $ restrictions I'm only pushin' alphasonik 10's with it but I AM running a Voodoo 1.2 farad cap as well.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

really old thread here...i've already bought the stuff, installed it...made a box and changed everything around.


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## Sanguinius (Mar 3, 2005)

Oh... Oops... Sorry didn't pay attention to the dates (Yeah I know completely says newbie about me eh?) Ah well I am what I am and everyone was a newbie at one point or another.


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

why isnt this thread just closed? it has any and all information you could possibly need, nothing else needs to be added to it.


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## Sanguinius (Mar 3, 2005)

1.6pete said:


> why isnt this thread just closed? it has any and all information you could possibly need, nothing else needs to be added to it.


Yeah if you care to browse through the 20 pages that are associated with the post LOL. It definately NEEDS to be closed though. (I've seen older threads start anew though one was something like 2 years old LOL)


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

Sanguinius said:


> (I've seen older threads start anew though one was something like 2 years old LOL)


none are quit as extencive as this one though


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

yet it's still not closed...

haha...I bought a Radar detector...but I think that goes in another section...ha


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## erik2282 (May 17, 2005)

just read half of the thread in about 20 minutes.... man, i need a beer


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Holy crap....I'm back....heh

So my stock Headunit is eating my CDs. It will play for maybe 20 mins and then just skip and hose itself up until it just reads CD ERROR1. Then I take the CD out and it's scratched to hell...

SO my question now is I'm ready to get the aftermarket Headunit. I was looking at the Alpine CDA-9835 and love everything about it...except the price. I don't want to really pay more than $250.

I sorta like the Alpines but see the newer ones get horrible reviews. Can anyone suggest good reliable headunits that are under $250? [or are selling for around that on ebay?] Maybe other brands. My Fiance had 3 pioneers and they held up to his lowered suspension in a 240.

I'm looking for an interesting display, not plain and boring [I like the different colors], MP3 / WMA playback, good sound with bass, treble and mid control and just plain won't break 6 months after I buy it. No I don't give a rat's ass about ipod stuff either...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Alpine, Pioneer, and Clarion are all pretty solid choices as far as reliability goes. I'd take Alpine's build quality over Pioneer's any day, but Pioneer isn't bad. The 9835 is a nice unit, almost 2 years old though. Last year's models (9853, 55, etc) had some reliability issues at first, but that was supposedly fixed after a couple of months so any that you find now should be fine.

If the 9835 costs too much then you might want to look at the 9833, same exact headunit minus the nifty display. It was ~$100 cheaper when they were new so it should be a good bit cheaper now too.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Yeah I looked for the 33 and 35 on ebay and both were running around 250 -350 so I just bought the 51 from crutchfield. 37 people giving it a 4.5/5 rating is pretty good. Has the features I like and is brand new and under warranty. Free shipping and free wiring harness and mounting kit. So I got it all for 229.

Another question I have is regarding something you said like on the first few pages. Since I never got around to buying new components it's going to by a little tricky wiring it all up. You said that we would need to run all new speaker wire to bypass double amping the speakers. Couldn't an easier way be just wiring around the amp, cutting what is going in and going out and splicing them together? Are the amps for the front speakers located in the doors or on the speakers themselves?

The stock amp in the trunk is just powering the rear deck right? We tried downloading the FSM and looking up the electrical plans but they weren't very clear.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Yes you can do that, I believe both amps (sub and front stage) are in the trunk (not sure on that, I don't have the RF system). There are instructions on b15sentra.net on bypassing the stock amp, it's a little old so you'd have to do a little searching.


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

Lots of good threads on B15Sentra.net. Thanks. That should hopefully be enough info to get us through this whole wiring and double amping nightmare

Well the install is this weekend...wish us luck..lol


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## Yellowsentragirl (Dec 30, 2003)

So the install went well...

We didn't even need to open the door panels. All we did was bypass the stock Amp in the trunk by splicing wires and ran the RCAs to the front. We used the remote turn on wire that was already in the stock amp to turn on the aftermarket amp. Everything fit well and we ran into no problems. And man does that headunit look sweet...

Chalk this one up as another sucessful install

:thumbup:


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## truckramrod (Dec 24, 2005)

Yellowsentragirl said:


> http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/597777


That box and setup is pure garbage. Don't get me wrong, I've heard those Sonys at BestBuy and they were decent but you can get better for the money. 
That box i really crappy, its made of particle board and you should never have tweeters attached to your sub box.
That looks to be a $50 special from JC Whitney that you throw in the back of your van.
As for upgrading your system, you could get the JL Clean Sweep and then put aftermarket amps and speakers in IF you can't upgrade the stock radio.
Get a custom box built from 3/4" MDF when its time to get a sub box.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

truckramrod said:


> That box and setup is pure garbage. Don't get me wrong, I've heard those Sonys at BestBuy and they were decent but you can get better for the money.
> That box i really crappy, its made of particle board and you should never have tweeters attached to your sub box.
> That looks to be a $50 special from JC Whitney that you throw in the back of your van.
> As for upgrading your system, you could get the JL Clean Sweep and then put aftermarket amps and speakers in IF you can't upgrade the stock radio.
> Get a custom box built from 3/4" MDF when its time to get a sub box.



Welcome to 2 years ago


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## iforc (Jun 16, 2006)

Token Moron said:


> u will have to ditch that whole system....but DONT get anything sony..especially not subs
> 
> do u want SPL or SQL?


Yeah I agree Just say no to sony!


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## Turbo5upra (May 4, 2006)

I know this topic is pretty old, but just my $0.02 my brother bitched at me the other day when I wanted to get him into a 340.00 stereo you dont have to pay alot to get alot, And from the 2 seconds i spent today looking at upgrading my g/fs car.... this is a easy car to do...... havent tested my theroy yet but from playing with the fader and such, the amp in the rear gets its signal from the front speakers........ this being said, this could very well be the easist car i've ever done...... i will post wire color and functions as i get into it.....


In car audio as with other things its never how much you spend nor how big it is..... It's how you spend it, as far as big bass, it's not the sub for the most part... its the box, and the amp.... In my passat i turn heads with a type r 12 in a ported box with 200watts granted the 200 is very underated

Heres what i'm thinking for at the moment,....

Stock Headunit, Hell 95% of people wont tell between that and a good source
Reason for this is it has the well placed changer and blends well

could be wrong here but the front speakers run to the amp in the back, so line convertor here.... then i'm guessing the wires run back up to the front doors from there..... it looks like a 16-18ga. so as long as i dont get freaky with the power input it will be good....

remotes already back there


So heres what others could do for a cheap good stereo.....

good 3-4 channel amp,..... my top pick, soundsteam rubicon a4 old school and hard to find new can find used, its a 4 channal that needs a 8ga power kit 

stock speakers


and find a couple decent subs, alpine type e's,,..... 2 10's.... just dont clip the amp, and they will last forever



amp shipped, 180

Power wire 30 

loc shipped 15 

pair alpine type e 140ish shipped

box materials 35

1 pair meter rca's. 15

that comes to about 415, thats with everything new.... if you want to control the sub's throw in a epicenter or somthing like it......

I know this is a old topic, just going to do a easy to follow write up on it in case this comes up again.... only diffarance is i'm using a 5 channel amp

Hope my next post is a easy to follow way to enhance whats there


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## d_vision (Dec 2, 2006)

i say you get the dash kit and a nice deck installed that would basically be your budget right there and start there any stereo shop that "knows" what they are doing will make your bass work with your new deck just to get your business and point you in the path of upgrading any kind of real bass is gonna start at least 8 or 9 hundred but then you have a problem of your stock deck crap not getting your door speakers loud enough a little guide for you cause you already have a little bass....1.deck 2.more bass 3.door speakers 4.door speakers amp 5.more bass 678910 more bass maybe a t.v. ......JL is very respected and also kicker both are nice ..but like crossfire or t.m.a. ,RF, sony,etc. are cheep crap bass but it works and can be loud  i think that if you went cheep fosgate would be the way to go bla bla bla anyways thats my opinion


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## datsun74 (May 7, 2007)

i would go with some mtx thunder series or maybee even the sledge hammers there a lil more expensive ut its the best stuff you can get outside of car shows an really serious audio ppl 
also mtx thunders 7500 have the world record as of rite now 
but there amps are a lil expensive 
you should also try looking on car domain the have really good prices


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## mcitarella87 (Aug 13, 2007)

I have an 2006 sentra special edition.. which comes with the rockford fosgate head unit and the small amp and 8 inch sub in the back.. i recently got 2 10 inch polk audio subs and a pretty decent amp.. Im kinda low on money so i would really like to keep the stock RF head unit... U think its possible?


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## Turbo5upra (May 4, 2006)

yeap its called aline level convertor, get one that can handle factory amps... since they make cheap ones that take just radio power........... disconect the factory sub and remove.... connect the line level convertor to the old sub amp via tee taps, even tho the car is a pile please dont just cut the wires.... bam your done


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## trace_busta (Feb 2, 2008)

d_vision said:


> the path of upgrading any kind of real bass is gonna start at least 8 or 9 hundred


i lol'd.

dear readers, learn 2 ebay, and trade stuff you have for stuff your friends have.

in b4 fosgate fanboy...
2 RF12's @ 2ohm each. $300 i think... maybe less i dont remember 
matching sub. $100, used
box i got for free.
wiring kit free, came with the car, just had to snag a new signal wire.
XD also in b4 "your system is trash, and you should feel bad 4 owning it"
i love the way it sounds.


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