# Using toe plates at an autocross site.



## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

I have been using my toe plates for alignments for a little bit. I like it a lot and currently only do it on my garage floor where I have used some 12X12 tile to level the 4 spots that my tires rest. I have marked on my camber plates the two places I move it too to get the 1.5 and 3 degrees of negative camber I use for autocross racing. What I want to know is can I just adjust the toe on site using my toe plates rather then in my garage where I know the floor is flat. I have everything marked so it is relatively easy to get everything pretty close so I would just be checking it after I did my adjustments.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

98sr20ve said:


> *I have been using my toe plates for alignments for a little bit. I like it a lot and currently only do it on my garage floor where I have used some 12X12 tile to level the 4 spots that my tires rest. I have marked on my camber plates the two places I move it too to get the 1.5 and 3 degrees of negative camber I use for autocross racing. What I want to know is can I just adjust the toe on site using my toe plates rather then in my garage where I know the floor is flat. I have everything marked so it is relatively easy to get everything pretty close so I would just be checking it after I did my adjustments. *


Yeah you can, toe is not as sestive to a unven surface as camber is. What I do is paint lines on my tie rods so I can quickly go from racing to street toe settings at the track with just a 19 and a 12 mm wrench.

Mike


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## Geo (Apr 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: Using toe plates at an autocross site.*



morepower2 said:


> *Yeah you can, toe is not as sestive to a unven surface as camber is. What I do is paint lines on my tie rods so I can quickly go from racing to street toe settings at the track with just a 19 and a 12 mm wrench.
> 
> Mike *


Mike, have you ever played with determining how much toe is affected by a 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn, full turn of the tie rod? I've been meaning to play with this and it's one of the things I've just never gotten around to.

It would seem to me that within a relatively narrow range (narrow enough for tuning adjustments) that this info could be used to make quick suspension tuning adjustments at the track.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Using toe plates at an autocross site.*



Geo said:


> *Mike, have you ever played with determining how much toe is affected by a 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn, full turn of the tie rod? I've been meaning to play with this and it's one of the things I've just never gotten around to.
> 
> It would seem to me that within a relatively narrow range (narrow enough for tuning adjustments) that this info could be used to make quick suspension tuning adjustments at the track. *


Its about 1/4" per turn but it is non-linear as the closer you get from zero, the less it seems to affect the adjustment. Plus it varys with the condition of the car as well like ball joint slop, etc. Thats why I always roll the car after an adjustment.

Mike


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## JT200SX-N-FX (May 30, 2002)

How's the VE's performance in Autocross, does it hold up pretty good?


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JT200SX-N-FX said:


> *How's the VE's performance in Autocross, does it hold up pretty good? *


Its not really legal for any SCCA class that it would be competitive in.

Mike


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *Its not really legal for any SCCA class that it would be competitive in.
> 
> Mike *


I run in Street Mod (of course). At a local level we only have one driver driving a competitive car (I guess I am not counting the turbo VW's and the supercharged SI) a BMW E30 with a E36 M3 engine. He has competed nationally (and done well) and I have just gotten back into autocrossing and never done well in the past. I am about 1.45 secs off his time now. I used to be 5 secs off his time. His car is stripped and mine is not. 1.45 secs is a lot of time of course but technically I could still run as a novice. I think if you could get a B13/B14 down to 1900lbs then a VE could be super competitive on a local level. I have no idea about the national level. I have a couple big meets over the next two weekends. One has a much deeper pool of talent. I am still such a novice but I hope to do well. TO me its all about having fun and I am having a lot fun right now with my car.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

98sr20ve said:


> *I run in Street Mod (of course). At a local level we only have one driver driving a competitive car (I guess I am not counting the turbo VW's and the supercharged SI) a BMW E30 with a E36 M3 engine. He has competed nationally (and done well) and I have just gotten back into autocrossing and never done well in the past. I am about 1.45 secs off his time now. I used to be 5 secs off his time. His car is stripped and mine is not. 1.45 secs is a lot of time of course but technically I could still run as a novice. I think if you could get a B13/B14 down to 1900lbs then a VE could be super competitive on a local level. I have no idea about the national level. I have a couple big meets over the next two weekends. One has a much deeper pool of talent. I am still such a novice but I hope to do well. TO me its all about having fun and I am having a lot fun right now with my car. *


How set up is your car?

Mike


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## JT200SX-N-FX (May 30, 2002)

Of course your having a lot of fun with your car, You have the rare SR20VE swap. There is only 1 other reported person to do this swap on a B13!!!


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *How set up is your car?
> 
> Mike *


SR20VE
185whp and 7900rpm redline, Still making about 181whp at redline and 145 ftlbs tq at 5400.
Home made CAI
Fujitsuba Header
Custom 2.5 inch Cat-Back, Dynomax /Magnaflow
JWT ECU
Nismo Fuel Pressure Regulator
MSD 6AL Ignition, MSD RPM Triggers for camshaft activation
DynaBatt Battery
Motul Fluid

Transmission

97 SE-R Transmission, Quaife LSD, Motul Fluid

Suspension

Courtesy Nissan Front and Rear Strut Tower Braces.
Rota C8’s 15X6.5 with 205/50/15 Bridgestone SO3’s for daily driving
Kosie K1’s with Kuhmo Ecsta v700 205/50/15 for racing
Koni Struts and Shocks, Lowered in the Strut housings 1-inch
Ground Control Camber/Caster Plates
Ground Control Spring 300/200, Custom weld on front mount
Stillen Adjustable Rear Swaybar, Stock Front
Complete ES bushing install

Brakes

Wilwood Billet Dynalite Caliper, 11-inch X .9-inch Coleman Directional Vane Rotors, Developed the kit with www.Fastbrakes.com for the B13 and B14’s 
Maxima Rear Rotors and Calipers.
Stainless Brake lines front and rear.
Wilwood Fluid

My koni's are getting a little old. I have the Stillen rear bar set full stiff. I will be switching to 225/45/25 Ecsta's and double adjustable Koni's or GC AD Struts in the future. I use about 3 degree's negative up front which really helps kill the understeer. I have only run 1 event with that setting so I am still experimenting. I may be able to soften the rear bar a little now that I am not understeering so much. My biggest issue is weight and driver skill. I am allowed to weigh 1900lbs but i weigh about 2500 in autocross trim. I compete against some pretty well modded VW's with 1.8t's and a Supercharged SI and that E30/e36M3 Engine monster. There are others but those are the notables. The VE is soooo much easier to control then those turbo's I run against. I have only run about 4 events with the Ecsta's so i am still learning them also. Did I mention I am having fun. Racing is the highlight of my week/month. Those are the highlights. Probaly more then you wanted to know.


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## JT200SX-N-FX (May 30, 2002)

Damn, you are definently doing yo thang dogg!


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

98sr20ve said:


> *SR20VE
> Probaly more then you wanted to know. *


Not really, your car is very cool! How about an NPM feature on it? When you upgrade your shocks, if you choose shortened real racing dampers, you might want to consider upping your spring rates and getting the rear rates a little closer to the front. B14's rotate better than way.

For instance I run 600 in/lb front and 500 rear. For autocross, I might go the other way around and run a stiffer rear spring. For a weekend warrior car, I would proably run 450/375-400.

Your car is awsome!

Mike


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *Not really, your car is very cool! How about an NPM feature on it? When you upgrade your shocks, if you choose shortened real racing dampers, you might want to consider upping your spring rates and getting the rear rates a little closer to the front. B14's rotate better than way.
> 
> For instance I run 600 in/lb front and 500 rear. For autocross, I might go the other way around and run a stiffer rear spring. For a weekend warrior car, I would proably run 450/375-400.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kind comments. I did send my stuff in to be considered for a NPM feature. That is why it was so easy to give you my spec's. It was already written. You have personally helped me on several occasions but you help so many that you probably don't remember. Thanks again. I have been thinking about both those changes when I do upgrade my suspension. I also do HPDE (driving/track days). How would that 450/400 ride on the street. This is my daily driver. I have been thinking long and hard about going even front and back. Maybe 350/350 or something like that. I was also thinking of trying a ST front bar and then even stiffer in the back. So many variables it is hard to say. I do like the tailhappy nature for autocross.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

98sr20ve said:


> *Thanks for the kind comments. I did send my stuff in to be considered for a NPM feature. That is why it was so easy to give you my spec's. It was already written. You have personally helped me on several occasions but you help so many that you probably don't remember. Thanks again. I have been thinking about both those changes when I do upgrade my suspension. I also do HPDE (driving/track days). How would that 450/400 ride on the street. This is my daily driver. I have been thinking long and hard about going even front and back. Maybe 350/350 or something like that. I was also thinking of trying a ST front bar and then even stiffer in the back. So many variables it is hard to say. I do like the tailhappy nature for autocross. *


The higher spring rates would be somewhat brutal but way better than a slammed Civic! Or an over lowered Sentra B14 for that matter. I live with those rates and when teamed with a properly valved racing shock, its not that bad or at least liveable. It is probably better than pro kits and tokikos, at least you don't slam through the travel.

You might want to try the new progress front bar when it comes out, it has hiem joints in the front and is 3 way adjustable. The ST bar binds and causes terminal understeer once the car rolls past a certain point.

Mike


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *
> You might want to try the new progress front bar when it comes out, it has hiem joints in the front and is 3 way adjustable. The ST bar binds and causes terminal understeer once the car rolls past a certain point.
> 
> Mike *


Interesting, I heard progress is only making stuff for B13's. If that is true will the b13 front bar fit my car anyway


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

98sr20ve said:


> *Interesting, I heard progress is only making stuff for B13's. If that is true will the b13 front bar fit my car anyway *


I am about to find out.

Mike


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

Really, Please let me know. Then I will be able to adjust the front and back. I think I might go with a 350/375 combo with that front bar.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

98sr20ve said:


> *Really, Please let me know. Then I will be able to adjust the front and back. I think I might go with a 350/375 combo with that front bar. *


Should be a good all around set up.

Mike


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## eric96ser (Apr 30, 2002)

98sr20ve said:


> *Really, Please let me know. Then I will be able to adjust the front and back. I think I might go with a 350/375 combo with that front bar. *


Steve, I'm running 325/325 GCs with AGXs, and the car rotates much better than with the 200s. I only have the rear ST sway bar, stock front, N-tech lower brace, front and rear STBs. The ride is not bad at all. Ben Davis told me it feels like stock springs and AGXs. I didn't notice any harshness from switching the 200s for the 325s.


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

eric96ser said:


> *I didn't notice any harshness from switching the 200s for the 325s. *


Thanks that is very usefull info. I am actually willing to live with a bit more harness then I have right now. My Koni's are at the limit of their live and they are adjusted almost full stiff (1/8 out). I hear that adds a lot of un-needed compresion dampening. I bet the 375/375 would ride as good if not better then my current setup with properly adjusted struts. I am finally feeling good about deciding which springs to use in the future. Thanks for everyones input.


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## Geo (Apr 30, 2002)

98sr20ve said:


> *My Koni's are at the limit of their live and they are adjusted almost full stiff (1/8 out). I hear that adds a lot of un-needed compresion dampening. *


If you have single adjustable Konis, they are rebound adjustable only.


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

Geo said:


> *If you have single adjustable Konis, they are rebound adjustable only. *


Yes but adjusting the rebound on the Konis actually does effect the compression a little bit. At the extreme's of adjustment it does add even more compression damping then in the middle parts of adjustment. I have seen the charts to prove it.


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## Geo (Apr 30, 2002)

98sr20ve said:


> *Yes but adjusting the rebound on the Konis actually does effect the compression a little bit. At the extreme's of adjustment it does add even more compression damping then in the middle parts of adjustment. I have seen the charts to prove it. *


Really?

Lots of jounce?


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