# "Aggressive" Street Suspension



## pyrocrickett (Jun 12, 2003)

What would you (anyone) recommend for a _cheap_ suspension setup (or series of suspension upgrades) for my bone-stock '92 Sentra E GA16 driven "aggressively" on the street only (no serious racing/AutoX)? I basically just would like my lil' E to hug corners and highway lane changes a bit better than the stock suspension allows. Ideas I've had are f/r strut tower bars, sway bars, lowering (not too far, mind you) springs/struts, wide(er) 14"-15" wheels & tires (I've got the stock-sized 155/80-13 rolling stock still...). The only major stipulations are 1) cost (I've got a majorly tight budget; nothing really specific, but I'd like to be as economical as I can...) and 2) I can't really afford to do a whole suspension upgrade all at once; I'd like to be able to do something here and there, kinda building up. My question, then, is what should I start with, and how far should I go?


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

My opinion, for whatever that's worth:

1.) Best damn tires you can afford. If you're buying rims, go 15" or bigger, there's not much selectin in 14" rims sizes. Azenis and Kumho are very affordable great tires. If you're not buying rims, you could run a 205/60R13 (a bit fat for a 5" rim), or better a 185/60R13 which is shorter and will improve gearing. Toyo Proxes RA1's are cheap and super sticky, but NOT an all season tire. I've run 205/60R13's and 185/60R13's in the RA1; go 185, trust me.

2.) Best damn shocks you can afford. AGX, baby. Koni if you can afford them, have tools, and are mechanically inclined. I've toyed with the idea of draining the oil out of the OEM shocks and refilling with, say, 40 weight non-detergent motor oil...

3.) Rear sway bar. Suspension Techniques would probably work well, and is not ludicrous big. SE-R or NX2000 rear bar would work ok too, and be cheap from a wreckers. Use urethane mounts.

4.) Polyurethane bushings. Nightmare to put in if you're useless in a shop. Makes a SIGNIFICANT difference in the whole feel of the car. Best investment I ever did. If I did nothing else, bushings were a good move, better than springs, I think.

5.) Highest rate, minimal drop springs. (Saved this one for last) Look into Suspension Techniques, Progress or H&R if you want low, but low is NOT good on these cars. Eibach is the most common, Tokico marginally better. Hypercoils would be best, but you MUST have high-end shocks before you run them (or you won't have shocks within a few months). Coil overs are an annoyance unless you really really want them. Remember this motto: "Don't buy $hit"


Take a gander through my web site on my B13 - primarily for autocross, but everything done with an eye for cheap, and what I've learned (basically, don't be too cheap).

www.geocities.com/g_wellwood/automotive/sentra.html

Greg


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## pyrocrickett (Jun 12, 2003)

Is that the order you'd suggest getting them in, too?


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

Yes sir.

Bushings vs. springs are really your call. But this is always my recommended order of modifications. Tires first, then shocks.

Good luck!


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## 2SR20DE (May 17, 2003)

I wouldn't say get the springs last. That's one of the most significant differences in your car. I do agree, get struts when you do it, i made that mistake and now i'm paying for it in that i'm now driving a 93' sentra land boat. The thing sucks on the rebound. What's this about coilovers being an "annoyance"? I would love to have the ability to determine ride height and also the ability to change springs. A rear swaybar is great to help w/ that fwd understeer. Tires are key also. I wouldn't recoment the Azenis (200 utwr) or anything below a 300 utwr. I've had the azenis' for the last 3 mo, and i've ran one track day on them. They stick very well but do not last on the street. If you don't want to keep replacing tires go w/ another tire, but if you don't mind the azenis is an excellent tire and it's dirt cheap. The Yoko Es100's are supposed to be very sticky and last a long time (300 utwr).


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

2SR20DE said:


> *I wouldn't say get the springs last. That's one of the most significant differences in your car.*


I did not find it to be a significant difference. I was somewhat disappointed. I am merely basing it on my own experience. Your experience may vary. Everyone is entitled to their own perception and opinion. Your point, however, is valid.



2SR20DE said:


> *What's this about coilovers being an "annoyance"?*


Hmm, let's see. Grinding the top of the struts for the GC sleeve, wrapping in duct tape, coating with silicone, rattles, squeaks, corrosion from road salt in winter, loss of dust boot thus voiding strut warranty, chassis fatigue and noises from high spring rates ....

I agree with you - I'd love to set height, rate, corner balance, etc. etc., but I am not willing (at this point) to make those compromises. Again, the lad wants inexpensive mods. I don't view "good" coilovers as inexpensive compared to an off-the-shelf spring. Unless of course you want to go Aerospeed or Ricky Racer, but how many happy people do you see with those kits? The guy says he wants it for street driving, not racing. Why bother with hella adjustment?



2SR20DE said:


> *I wouldn't recoment the Azenis (200 utwr) or anything below a 300 utwr.*


I run Kumho 712's on the street, and the fronts lasted about 12 months worth of driving (lowered - control arms drag tires sideways as suspension moves - fast wear - 20,000km). The 712's have a tread wear of 320, can't say they are a long lasting tire either (I do have a heavy right foot...). Mind you, the RA-1's have a tread wear of 40, but my God do they put a smile on your face. I just ordered a new set of Kumho V70A 215/50R13's to replace my Toyos. _That_ will be fun!

G "YMMV" Wellwood


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

Besides, I still think it's a more logical progression, with the best bang for the buck.

Tires: $300-400

Shocks: $300-400

Sway Bar: $20-200

Springs: $150-$400


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## pyrocrickett (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks for the suggestions so far, guys! Here's a question, though: I just bought brand new rubber for my wheels (yeah, I was stupid and didn't think about getting a better size before I did and went with the cheap skinny-assed OEM size...  ) so tires won't be back up on my upgrade list for a while now...what about starting off with a rear sway bar? That seems to be the cheapest suspension mod so far, and you said I'd be able to pull a suitable one off of a (B13?) SE-R or NX2K? Are the bars from those two cars the same, or would you recommend one over the other?


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## pyrocrickett (Jun 12, 2003)

*Pleasant surprise...*

Ok, get this: I was working on replacing my passenger-side half-shaft (sister broke the CV boot while I was at skoo  ), and I had noticed before that my struts weren't OEM, but I just noticed today that they're in fact KYB GR-2's! While I know these aren't the best struts out there (AGX's and Koni's, I've heard), I am incredibly pleased to know that I already have struts that are, from what I've heard, far superior to OEM. I have had absolutely no problems with them, but then again, I haven't had the experience of driving like I do on OEM struts...
So that's one upgrade taken care of, since I really don't see myself going all-out for max adjustability and whatnot with AGX's or Koni's. I've already sworn to myself that I will never again buy 155/80R13s for my car (stupid, stupid decision...), and the next set of rubbers for my E will most likely be 185/70R13s (since I haven't been able to find any 185/60R13s in my price/practicalility range yet...), so that takes care of tires and struts. What now? I'm thinking a rear swaybar, but I'm still not sure if I need to pull one from an NX2K, one from an SE-R, or buy one from Suspension Techniques. What about strut tower bars? Anyone have some advice/help?


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

185/70R13 is too tall. Go 175/70R13 or 205/60R13.

Try getting a sway bar from the wreckers. SE-R or NX2000, should be the same bar. I imagine $20 cash and it's yours. If you want more, flog the bar on eBay and buy an ST bar.

Strut bars are minimal gain on a stock suspension. Go cheap on eBay or don't worry about it. small small small gain. A lower brace would be better, but you won't find on on eBay.

Did you have a chane to look through my web site?

G


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## pyrocrickett (Jun 12, 2003)

175/70R13s were the other size I was considering when getting new tires last week (I keep kicking myself in the @$$ over that one...); I'm definetly sticking with that size from now on.
I'll check the local salvage shop for an SE-R/NX2K rear swaybar; I don't think we have any real junkyards or other wreakers to speak of around here... If anyone knows of how to get ahold of one for relatively cheap, please let me know!


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## 2SR20DE (May 17, 2003)

Skinny G said:


> *I did not find it to be a significant difference. I was somewhat disappointed. I am merely basing it on my own experience. Your experience may vary. Everyone is entitled to their own perception and opinion. Your point, however, is valid.
> *
> When I put my springs on the car definately pushed way less in the corners, not nearly the body roll also.
> 
> ...


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## brucek2 (Sep 25, 2002)

Well let me tell you what i have.

Tokico Struts/Springs = $450 Installed myself, really not THAT hard to do.

15's with Kuhmo Ecsta 712's = $400, I got a good deal. Tires made a HUGE difference with handling!

My next project is Suspension Technique sway bars (front and rear) = $250. I hear that will help a lot as well.

With just springs, struts, tires, wheels, the handling will be way above your expectation of what your car could do, (i think most people here can vouch for that). But still thats not enough for me, thats why i'm getting sways. Also if you can install if yourself you will save lots of money! I hope i helped.


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

Bruce,

Did you find that Tokico springs lowered more in the front and less in the rear than expected?

G


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## pyrocrickett (Jun 12, 2003)

*So far...*

Here's what I've done so far:
Tires: just got new 155/80R13s a week or so ago; won't be getting new ones (175/70R13s) for a while now...

Struts: found out my fronts were replaced with KYB GR-2s, rears are still OEM

Springs: (don't hate me for this) I bought a set of cheap ($7.50) spring clamps to lower my front by ~0.5"; it handles noticibly better without any noticable compromise in ride comfort, but if anyone knows of any long-term undesireable consequences from these, please let me know!

Sway bar: bought a rear sway bar from a salvage yard off of an SE-R; problem is my struts don't have the mounting brackets for one...help me out in this thread.

My setup thus far has cost me a total of $34.78 (~$175 if you count the tires), and if I could get my sway bar on, I'd be one happy driver.


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## 2SR20DE (May 17, 2003)

*Re: So far...*



pyrocrickett said:


> *Here's what I've done so far:
> Tires: just got new 155/80R13s a week or so ago; won't be getting new ones (175/70R13s) for a while now...
> 
> Struts: found out my fronts were replaced with KYB GR-2s, rears are still OEM
> ...



Try this, struts and springs on ser.net


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

I have heard that using spring clamps loads the clamped coils in an unnatural manner, and that they will fail (break) at the stress point.

I ran them on a Civic for one year, before just cutting a coil or two off (a better way to go).

I really don't know how to go about solving the sway bar problem. Welding tabs on the struts could cook the insides, rendering the struts useless. Jurry-rigging end links to something else (spring basket?) is just plain hokey. Why not just buy a pair of GR2's for the back?

End link hardware is a no-brainer: back to the wreckers, or Nissan.

Hmmmmmmm. You could buy some spherical rod ends, bolt them to the ends of the bar like the originals were, then run some links down to the bottom spindle bolt like the ST bars do. That would really help the car to rotate as there would be no flex. Rod ends aren't cheap though...


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## pyrocrickett (Jun 12, 2003)

Skinny G said:


> *Hmmmmmmm. You could buy some spherical rod ends, bolt them to the ends of the bar like the originals were, then run some links down to the bottom spindle bolt like the ST bars do. That would really help the car to rotate as there would be no flex. Rod ends aren't cheap though... *


I'm not quite understanding what "spherical rod ends" are, but I get the part about running links down to the spindle bolt like the ST. What about a spherical rod end allows me to do that? Couldn't I just rotate the OEM end link around and bolt it to a bracket on the spindle bolt?


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

Spherical rod ends:










I was thinking something in the order of this:










You could certainly drop the link down to the spindle bolt. A piece of 1/8" or thicker (preferrably thicker) angle iron cut and drilled would work fine.

g


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## pyrocrickett (Jun 12, 2003)

Awesome! Thanks for the help! I'll post (hopefully with pics) once I get this thing on some way or another...


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## pyrocrickett (Jun 12, 2003)

Skinny G said:


> *You could certainly drop the link down to the spindle bolt. A piece of 1/8" or thicker (preferrably thicker) angle iron cut and drilled would work fine.*


Are these "angle irons" you're talking about the same as the ones you used to mount your ST bar? If so, they're just 90 degree brackets with a hole on each "tab", one the size of the spindle bolt and the other the size of the link bolt, right?


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

Yes. "Angle Iron" is a generic term like "tubing" or "pipe" or "sheet." It is steel that has been formed in a 90° angle. I am sure you have seen this stuff around. You can often dig scraps out of the dumpsters near metal fabricators.

The spindle bolt holes must be 9/16" You likely won't have a drill that big. (I had to re-drill mine, ST made them too small).

I don't know what size you'd want to make the end link holes. Depends on the size of the end links.

G


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## pyrocrickett (Jun 12, 2003)

Again, thank you *very much!!* I'll get to work on that ASAP...


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