# Tire Rotation



## ipaw (Jun 28, 2007)

I purchased my X-trail bonavista in late March and just had it in for its first service with only 3500KM on it. The service people were telling me that I should rotate my tires! This doesn't seem right to me so I declined.

At what mileage are people getting their tires rotated and have you been "pushed" to get it done at earlier intervals?


----------



## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Some makers don't recommend rotating tyres at all. One disadvantage is that if you do have a wheel alignment problem you may never notice it even though it's causing extra wear. An advantage is that all tyres will wear out and be renewed together provided you don't mind footing a bill for a full set. If you do decide it's good idea to rotate them then would have thought the more often the better if there's no cost. Just 3500 Km may be just a tiny bit enthusiastic.


----------



## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Over here in Singapore the tyres are rotated every 10,000km service, as part of the package. Seems to help with the lifespan of the tyres.

It's a good idea to check the alignment every couple years anyway - or when you happen to have curbed or clipped the tyres - the MK I and II X-trail's rear trailing arm set-up can get out of whack easily.


----------



## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Trouble with wheel alignment is that you can have it done today and have it out again tomorrow. I had a car that failed its MoT test on the steering a few years back and let the garage do the work. After they did it every bit of tread on one side of one tyre was scrubbed off within a few hundred miles before I noticed. Had been a nearly new tyre.

Tyre rotating seems to be something that goes in and out of fashion. One of the mags here was saying that it affects the contact of the tyre and handling so should only be done when necessary to even up wear. 

Different cars and different tyres wear at different rates. Unless you want to run two identical cars with identical tyres and rotate one but not the the other I don't see there is any way of knowing which practice is most economical. You still won't know for sure unless you're also sure they were driven in an identical way. Smoke the tyres too often and you'll knock off a lot of miles.

Taken overall, I'd be surprised if it makes very much difference either way if alignment and pressures are as they should be. If you do rotate and want the maximum mileage, it means you'll be running round with all four tyres having minimal tread at some point so may want to change earlier. If you need to replace all four tyres at once just before you sell it will have cost you more in tyres than if you'd got by with one and a half sets.

The real advantage of rotating is that you can change a full set of tyres together and so can be sure of having four matching tyres. It obviously wouldn't make sense to wear the fronts right down and have only half used rears if you intended to replace all four tyres together. You'll also have the advantage of always having four similarly worn tyres. That might not suit some people who prefer to buy just two tyres at a time. 

As for the right time to rotate, I'd guess that really depends on the expected life of the tyres. Would make sense to rotate fast wearing soft tyres more often than harder ones.


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

ipaw said:


> I purchased my X-trail bonavista in late March and just had it in for its first service with only 3500KM on it. The service people were telling me that I should rotate my tires! This doesn't seem right to me so I declined.
> 
> At what mileage are people getting their tires rotated and have you been "pushed" to get it done at earlier intervals?


Based on your mileage, you're about 2500K below the Mfg "expected" mileage.

If I recall correctly, the first service is due at 3 months, which is where you are OR 6000K and you're far from there at this point. I would not/not rotate the tires at 3500K - you will hardly be able to see any signs of "abnormal" wear.

And, if memory serves me correctly, I think the Mfg. "suggested" rotation period for tires is every 5 or 6000K, which ties it in with the service"intervals". If you have an "out-of-alignment" issue, you will most probably be able to notice it at 6000K.

To rotate or not - that is the question.....

You've seen some comments on this already posted.

Personally, I'm a fan of tire rotation. I rotate mine anywhere from 5000 to 7500K, which presents the opportunity for a "close-up" inspection of the tires (AND rims). Additionally, it allows for a look at the rotors, pads, shocks etc etc.. Mind you, I do this myself - I'm quite sure that when the dealer (don't care which one it is) does the tire rotation, it's just that - move them from one location to another.

Tires are expensive - they're an "investment" both from a safety stand point as well as a dollar perspective.

I don't like mixing tires that are 35% worn with ones that are 70% worn - regular rotation avoids that possibility.

And whether you have to replace all 4 at once or 2 at a time, you'll still gonna pay in the final analysis....

Just some addition points for your consideration...

One last thought for your consideration - if your "limited" amount of usage continues at the same rate, you might want to watch for other forms of deterioration of your tires - dry rot, flat spotting etc. etc.


----------



## Manuelgamex (Jan 12, 2007)

I'm also a fan of tire rotation, but I did at 10k kms, but I'll change to 5k kms, for a better inspection.

I don't use winter tires (don't need 'em) so all seasons is my choice & I'm loving my Pirelli's Scorpions STS, they're a great investment & will rotate 'em when it got 5k kms old.


----------



## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Slightly off the original subject, but both wheel alignment and wheel balance affect wear and so does having tyres fitted properly in the first place. A lot of tyre-fitters aren't as well trained as they should be.

I recently had a new tyre fitted after getting a puncture when the Xtrail had done only 3000 miles. I used the biggest UK internet tyre company, Etyres, who send out mobile fitters but when I drove with the new tyre there was an obvious vibration. Had I been driving round on rough old tyres for a while I might not have noticed straight away.

When I checked I saw they'd fitted the tyre with the red dot aligned with the valve. In case you don't know, most new tyres come with two painted dots. The red dot is the "uniformity mark" and marks the point of maximum runout. That has to be matched with the uninformity mark on the wheel, the low spot, to ensure perfect roundness. The yellow dot is the "weight mark", the light spot of the tyre. If there isn't a uniformity mark on the wheel the yellow dot is usually lined up with the valve as that's usually the heaviest part of the wheel. By muddling the two dots Etyres fitted the tyre with the red dot opposite to where it should be and so increased the runout on the wheel rather than compensated for it.

What surprised me was that when I phoned to get them back to fix it they obviously didn't know what the different dots were for and nor did the fitter who came back. This is a big company so there must be thousands out there with wrongly fitted tyres.


----------



## danthenissanman (Jun 29, 2007)

Most tire manufacturers recommend rotating your tires every 10,000 km. This allows the tires to wear evenly. However, tires with a softer compound, such as winter tires, should be rotated more often. One tire manufacturer suggested I rotate my summer tires every 8,000 km, and my winter tires every 5,000 km. If you drive hard, and corner hard in summer, your front tires will wear a lot faster. In that case you should rotate your summer tires more frequently. I rotate my tires with every oil change; 5,000 km. I find the car handles a lot better with the 5,000 rotations. However, consider the cost of rotation. My rotations are included with the purchase of my tires.


----------



## SCHESBH (May 25, 2004)

*Agreed*

I agree with Roger and do the same as him. My tires still look like new and I am at 53k

Stephen




Canada's Far East said:


> Based on your mileage, you're about 2500K below the Mfg "expected" mileage.
> 
> If I recall correctly, the first service is due at 3 months, which is where you are OR 6000K and you're far from there at this point. I would not/not rotate the tires at 3500K - you will hardly be able to see any signs of "abnormal" wear.
> 
> ...


----------



## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

SCHESBH said:


> I agree with Roger and do the same as him. My tires still look like new and I am at 53k
> 
> Stephen


I had a set of Michelins many years ago that lasted 75,000 miles (120,000 km). Wasn't because I bothered to consciously rotate them as far as I remember. Some tyres just last a lot longer than others which is why it's hard to compare. Those had lousy grip compared with modern tyres.

I see people on forums all over claiming that rotating tyres reduces wear and I think they're probably missing the point. Just as Kwik-fit are when they say: _"Many tyre manufacturers agree that it is *no longer good practice to rotate your tyres* in order to extend their legal life."_ (See Tyres :: Tyre Rotation.) Kwik-fit btw are by far the largest tyre distributors in the UK and are (or were) owned by Ford.

Point with rotating tyres is that is that it is very unlikely to have much effect on the wear rate as such either way. What it does is averages out the wear between all the tyres. That means if you are a person who replaces all four tyres at once the _set_ of tyres will last longer than for someone who never changes the tyres around and then replaces the almost unworn back tyres at the same time as the worn front ones. If you don't mind changing tyres one or two at a time and have tyres with different amount of wear then you might even find that more economical.

I rotate my tyres because I prefer to buy a whole new set at once and it averages out the life of a set, not because I think it reduces wear. I don't think how often you do it is in any way critical and depends on a whole range of factors.


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

flynn said:


> Slightly off the original subject, but both wheel alignment and wheel balance affect wear and so does having tyres fitted properly in the first place. A lot of tyre-fitters aren't as well trained as they should be.
> 
> I recently had a new tyre fitted after getting a puncture when the Xtrail had done only 3000 miles. I used the biggest UK internet tyre company, Etyres, who send out mobile fitters but when I drove with the new tyre there was an obvious vibration. Had I been driving round on rough old tyres for a while I might not have noticed straight away.
> 
> ...


VERY valuable, worthwhile, and accurate information supplied here by flynn.

As and add-on to this valuable information, there is another "mark" on the tires which has an impact and tire installers should be aware of it - - but most of them are not.

There is usually a colored stripe that runs around the circumference of the tire and it is important when one is replacing all four tires. It's important to place the tires so that these stripes are in sync - - otherwise one risks a "pulling" effect to one side or another.

I made a post on this quite some time ago - with pictures - not sure if it was in this forum or another. I'll do a search and if I can find it, I'll post up a link....

As I said earlier, tires are an investment...the more we know, the better we can protect our investments....

Cheers = Roger


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

*More on Tire Rotation & Care*

Here’s a link which speaks to flynn’s point:

Tire Tech - Match Mounting to Enhance Tire & Wheel Uniformity

While searching, I found a rather interesting article related to the impact of tire rotation (or lack thereof) on a 4x4 or AWD vehicle….check it out here:

Tire Tech - Matching Tires on Four-Wheel Drive And All-Wheel Drive Vehicles

Still searching for the initial article . . . .

Cheers = Roger


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

*Found it*

Took quite a while but I found it....

http://www.nissanforums.com/x-trail/125533-torque-steering.html

see post number 3 and click on the link to the Bible site.....scroll down (quite a bit) and you'll find the piece on the red stripe around the tire....

Cheers = Roger


----------



## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Canada's Far East said:


> Took quite a while but I found it....


Roger, interesting that the thread was started by someone who's Xt was pulling to one side and couldn't get it fixed. 

The other internet company I checked with was mytyres.co.uk. Despite the name they operate out of Germany where all their tyres come from and were a few pounds cheaper than Etyres.

When I found the tyre I needed on their site I noticed it had the letter "L" in the code. Just to be sure I phoned them. They claimed it meant the tyre had to be fitted on the LH side. That didn't make sense because the tyres, Dunlop ST20, weren't assymetical and could be fitted on either side. 

So I called Dunlop. They said don't touch them. They said most tyres are made with a slight bias to compensate for the camber of the road. In the UK, Australia, Japan etc. we drive RH Drive vehicles and tyres for these markets are coded with an R. Tyres coded with an L are intended for LHD vehicles only.

So the tyres being sold in the UK by Mytyres were for the German LHD market and would pull RHD vehicles the wrong way, i.e. pull down the camber instead of compensating for it. They are a big, Europe-wide company and amazing they should do something like that. The L or R appears in the long code that starts "DOT".

Would have expected this to be only a European problem but I suppose it's possible MFreedman has happened upon tyres intended for another market.

I suspect that a lot of problems with tyres are down to either incorrect fitting or being the wrong spec. Next tyre I have fitted will be by the local place I normally use who really know their stuff.


----------

