# NA2T wont start



## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

did a NA2T conversion and if i try to crank it will just keep trying and trying never actually start. i had it running as NA previously. when its cranking it doesnt act like its out of time. its more like no gas. when i pull plugs they are wet with gas so not really sure what the issue is. ran ecu test and got these codes:

14-speedo cable
23-idle switch
24-park/neutral switch
31-load signal circut / ecu
41-fuel temp sensor / circut

im running:
86T ecu
86T injectors 
87 n/a maf
87 na wiring harness
86T O2 sensor
87 w serries block 
newly rebuilt 87 na heads


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## i r teh noobz (Apr 26, 2007)

Pull a wire off the distributor and test for spark. If you have fuel and spark but no fire, I'd suggest you double check the timing. 

None of those codes seem like something that would keep it from firing. 

I think the turbo wiring harness my be required. Its been a while since I read up on NA2T stuff. 
EDIT: Checked again, it isn't listed on redz31.net as a "required part."


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

i r teh noobz said:


> Pull a wire off the distributor and test for spark. If you have fuel and spark but no fire, I'd suggest you double check the timing.
> 
> None of those codes seem like something that would keep it from firing.
> 
> ...


Well last night I completely reset the timing belt. I made sure all 3 marks were in line. I also heard that there should be 40 rubber teeth on the belt between the marks on the cam gears. After I set it I rotated crank 2 times and everything lined up. The crank was at 0° and both cams lined up. I checked the dizzy and it was pointed at #1 terminal on cap. I tried starting it this morning and still no luck. The starter just keeps going.


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## i r teh noobz (Apr 26, 2007)

Did you verify spark?

Have you tried holding the throttle wide open?

Have you checked compression?


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

i r teh noobz said:


> Did you verify spark?
> 
> Have you tried holding the throttle wide open?
> 
> Have you checked compression?


Checked spark by taking extra plug and grounding it on plenum. Then turned ignition did it for each plug wire. I will say D*** the Japanese for having little hands bc I destroyed mine trying to get those wires. Esp 4 and 6. 

I haven't tested compression since I replaced the heads. I did that before the NA2T job. Of course now that I think about it if my timing was off it wouldn't hold compression. I do know when I manually turn the crank I can feel the pressure and I can hear air movement. 

I'm starting to think it's my injectors.


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## i r teh noobz (Apr 26, 2007)

If you have wet plugs, I'd assume the injectors are firing. They could be leaking though. Unplug a few and check for pulse with a test light. I would also try starting fluid or something to help rule out a fuel delivery problem. 

Fuel (indirectly) and spark are verified. That leaves compression/timing and the control system. Did your ECM come from a running car?


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

i r teh noobz said:


> If you have wet plugs, I'd assume the injectors are firing. They could be leaking though. Unplug a few and check for pulse with a test light. I would also try starting fluid or something to help rule out a fuel delivery problem.
> 
> Fuel (indirectly) and spark are verified. That leaves compression/timing and the control system. Did your ECM come from a running car?


not sure about the comp dont even remember where i got it honestly. ivebeen working on this since like 09. i did get a code for the ecm when i ran diagnostics. could i put my na ecm on it to see if it goes? ive got 2 both from running cars. 

im gonna try spraying some tb cleaner in intake and seeing if it goes.

i cant imagine timing being off as many times as i have reset it

i wouldnt think bad compression would keep me from seeing some kind of life. maybe if there was none in all cylinders, but not one or two.


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

should my timing be set to 0 degrees or should it be at 20 degrees like factory turbo even though mine is NA2T?


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## i r teh noobz (Apr 26, 2007)

Not sure where to go as far as timing. I'd guess somewhere between the NA and T settings would be a good start point. 

I don't see any reason why you couldn't try the NA ECM to see if it changes anything, but don't run it for long as its calibrated for the NA injector size. If you have a spare that matches the O2 sensor I'd try it first.

Noticed you have a thread on Z31P as well. I'll read it later and see if I notice anything.


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

i r teh noobz said:


> Not sure where to go as far as timing. I'd guess somewhere between the NA and T settings would be a good start point.
> 
> I don't see any reason why you couldn't try the NA ECM to see if it changes anything, but don't run it for long as its calibrated for the NA injector size. If you have a spare that matches the O2 sensor I'd try it first.
> 
> Noticed you have a thread on Z31P as well. I'll read it later and see if I notice anything.


So this morning I swapped the dizzy to an old one and tried starter fluid. BAM it showed signs of life. Not sure if it was the dizzy or the fluid. Last night I tried throttle body cleaner with first dizzy and got nothing. It has worked for me before on my 96 blazer. I didn't have enough time before work to swap back to original dizzy for a test with starting fluid. This makes me think though it might be my injectors. 

Last night when I was testing spark it was hard to tell how strong the spark was. I was looking at the plug through a dirty windshield under the hood from the driver's seat. I need a remote starter really. How would I bypass the clutch pedal for the remote start?


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## i r teh noobz (Apr 26, 2007)

Check for an inhibit relay under the hood. I'm pretty sure the Z31 has one. Jump the switched side of the relay.

Alternately, unplug the switch on the clutch pedal and jump the pins.


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

When setting my timing should I set the crank to 15°-20° then set the dizzy to #1? 

Set crank to 0° get running then turn dizzy to advance 15-20 degree?


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## i r teh noobz (Apr 26, 2007)

I've always set distributors by getting it to run and adjusting afterwards. I'm not familiar with setting timing on a VG30 though.


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

IT LIVES !!!!!!!!


started first try this morning well second i forgot the dizzy cap on first try. it starts easily and idles on its own. on throttle it bogs down and chokes itself. im thinking im missing some vacuum lines so im gonna check those. used a timing light to set to 20 degrees btdc. it seemed to idle better there.


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## i r teh noobz (Apr 26, 2007)

Check for intake leaks after the MAF as well. Use the starting fluid/throttle cleaner and spray around joints and bellows, intake gaskets, injector bosses, and pretty much anything else that seals after the MAF. If the idle changes when you spray somewhere, you have a leak.

Look around for pinched wiring too.


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

i r teh noobz said:


> Check for intake leaks after the MAF as well. Use the starting fluid/throttle cleaner and spray around joints and bellows, intake gaskets, injector bosses, and pretty much anything else that seals after the MAF. If the idle changes when you spray somewhere, you have a leak.
> 
> Look around for pinched wiring too.


I definitely have some intake leaks in the piping between maf and throttle. Thanks for the tip on the injectors man I think that's what got it going.


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

well seems as though i spoke too soon. came home from work excited to mess with the Z and got let down. thinking since it cranked right up first thing this morning i figured it would do the same tonight but nooooo. i was so pissed bc i hadnt changed anything from when i left it. decided to check injector #1 for click and success it opened up since last nights no click. injector #4 is still no clicky. so i went to start the car and it struggled but started n idled for a min then died. 

my thought is that last night when i was "charging" the injectors they were actively squirting each time they clicked. therefore there was already fuel in the chamber which allowed it to run this morning. durning this mornings tests i didnt leave any gas in the chamber since i hadnt messed with the injectors it had a lot harder time starting. 

its one of 3 things:

bad injectors

bad injector wiring

bad fuel pump/pressure


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## i r teh noobz (Apr 26, 2007)

See if the injectors pulse while cranking.


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

i r teh noobz said:


> See if the injectors pulse while cranking.


whats the best way to do that? keep in mind im on my own.


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## i r teh noobz (Apr 26, 2007)

Run a test light or noid light from an injector plug into the car. Turn signal bulb sockets (194 style bulbs) work well if you have one laying around. Otherwise, you can use a regular test light, or even a spare NA injector. Run enough spare wire so you can see the light or feel the injector click. Test at least one connector on each side.

No pulse would mean something is wrong with the CAS, ECM, or wiring.


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

Would the idle up solenoid cause me any issues?


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## i r teh noobz (Apr 26, 2007)

I doubt it. It might not stay running without you holding the throttle open a little, but it should at least fire with bad idle controls. As far as I understand, the idle up solenoid only bumps the idle to compensate for AC or power steering loads. If it was missing or leaking badly, then it could cause a starting issue.

I haven't had to do much troubleshooting to my VG cars. Z31P will have much better VG-specific information than I can provide.

Do you have a service manual? XenonZ31.com has free factory manuals for download.


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

i r teh noobz said:


> I doubt it. It might not stay running without you holding the throttle open a little, but it should at least fire with bad idle controls. As far as I understand, the idle up solenoid only bumps the idle to compensate for AC or power steering loads. If it was missing or leaking badly, then it could cause a starting issue.
> 
> I haven't had to do much troubleshooting to my VG cars. Z31P will have much better VG-specific information than I can provide.
> 
> Do you have a service manual? XenonZ31.com has free factory manuals for download.


From what I can tell injector wires are live. 

I fought with it for a while to get it to start and finally got it going. When it starts it will idle for a good while then eventually sputter n die. I can't rev it at all or it dies. I feel like somethings not telling the computer how much gas it needs. I posted a db link for a pic with the only air lines I have open. Let me know how these are supposed to be. From what I can find the idle up hose goes to the charge pipe and the hose from valve cover goes to s pipe for turbo intake. I still have a small hose hook up on the s pipe and another questionable line both circled in blue.

http://db.tt/UKMGwBGc


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## i r teh noobz (Apr 26, 2007)

I can't really tell what's what in the picture. Post that link on Z31P for a better response.


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## xanmanz31 (Mar 19, 2013)

so i hooked up my n/a ecu and it ran pretty damn well. so far with the 86 turbo ecu i could barely get it to turn over n idle. with the n/a ecu it turns over fine and runs. i can rev it without it dying. it has a little trouble idling. i think i just need to mess with the throttle cable and timing. 

my question now is why exactly do i need the turbo ecu? its really bothering me that my n/a ecu performed better than the turbo that im supposed to use. i was running 86 turbo injectors with the Titania O2 sensor on the na ecu. the injectors and the O2 are the only turbo specific sensors i have. am i missing something for the turbo ecu to work? A.A.C? MAF?


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## i r teh noobz (Apr 26, 2007)

I think you need the turbo idle stuff, though many opt to delete idle controls. MAFs are the same.

You need the turbo ECM because its calibrated for the larger fuel injectors. Your NA ECM is firing twice as much fuel as the turbo ECM did because it thinks the injectors are smaller. I'd say you got a bad ECM, but fueling or missing/improper sensors could still be an issue.


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