# Maxed out 370cc inj. at stock Boost!



## MarkSR20 (Sep 17, 2002)

Well I have come to the conclusion that I am maxing out my injectors. I put down 246.9whp and 212.0 ft.lbs. on a stock pulsar t28 at 7psi. This is with 370cc injectors. I have a bored Stock maf with a 3bar JWT ECU program. I dont know where to begin. I dont want to go with 50lb. injectors just yet. I am waiting for the winter! What do I do for the time being??? Thanks and have a good one!


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2002)

247 wheel HP on a stock t28 at 7 psi? Does not compute... warning... danger to manifold...

I don't know how the hell you got 247 wheel Hp out of a stock DET at stock boost that makes 230 crank HP. But in any case, yes 250 HP is about the limit for 370cc injectors. A stock DET at stock boost shouldn't be doing more than 210 wheel HP, so normally it wouldn't be an issue. What's up with that?


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## MarkSR20 (Sep 17, 2002)

LOL,
This is on a Stock US SR20DE! I dont know if that makes the difference more understanding or more of a wondering? I definitly have to do something about it. Any input on how to cure this please let me know! Thanks


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

With the compression of a stock SR20 and a JWT ECU, I can guarantee you're starting to trigger that knock sensor. I would say "Becareful". You seem like you want more boost, so why don't you just decompress the engine with lower compression pistons or a thicker headgasket. Sounds like you're rolling around with a time-bomb.


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## MarkSR20 (Sep 17, 2002)

I was looking to go that route also! But wouldnt bigger injectors and Cobra MAF and JWT ECU Reprogramming with water injection do the same thing? I am just looking to figure out options! Thanks for your reply!


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## TUNED200 (Jul 27, 2002)

MarkSR20 said:


> *I was looking to go that route also! But wouldnt bigger injectors and Cobra MAF and JWT ECU Reprogramming with water injection do the same thing? I am just looking to figure out options! Thanks for your reply! *


im not fond of the cobra maf, get the ttz maf.
get the jwt ecu, it rocks
i wouldnt mess with water injection either

check out www.sr20deforum.com look in the racing section. there is a guy with a t28 on a usdm sr20 with 151K+ miles on it running low 13's. he is topped out at 9.75psi on 370's. 

Brian


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2002)

Yes, he is making that kind of power on 7psi. Mark is a personal friend of mine.  

Mark you got two band aid choices IMO until you can do it right.

1. Raise the fuel pressure. You can get a 370 to flow closer to a 450-500cc with more fuel pressure. Yes it will run fat across the band, but it's better than a melted piston.

2. Water injection. This SHOULD keep you happy as long as you don't go beyond where you are.


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## W10DET2020 (Sep 1, 2002)

Here a quick fix to your problem make the stock FPR adjustable.

Note: You can only raise fuel pressure this way not lower it, I know your trying to raise fuel pressure though.


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## Boosterwitch (Apr 15, 2002)

You should go with the Cobra MAF, H20 injection, 50lb injectors, and JWT ECU.

It's definitely added safety having the water. And as Jay knows, that combination is capable of over 400whp


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## MarkSR20 (Sep 17, 2002)

ryan: is your car the first to have the Fmax kit??? If so, how many miles are on your car now? 

I have been talking to a lot of people about the water injection and it seems like a no brainer. But to have the water injection and the JWT ECU programmed for it, it seems like an expensive setup? I am not sure on the price but if anyone has that info(retail) that would be great. 

I spoke with someone not running water injection at high boost and he said that he does not recommend it but it is something that can be done(with race gas). I plan on driving it daily and getting the most out of the car (longevity wise) so it looks like I will be doing this upgrade soon! Have a good one!


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2002)

Why would somebody not recommend water injection? I mean it's not really any different than Subaru or Mitsubishi using intercooler sprayers, and the results are essentially the same - cooler, denser intake charge which will allow you to ramp up the boost a few psi without changing anything else.

And using race gas or not has nothing to do with it really, it will cool your intake charge whether you're using race gas or not. I see using water injection on a stock motor (with a turbo kit) on pump gas as a safety margin - lets you crank up the boost a bit, and cools your combustion temps a bit more if you leave your boost where it is. Can be very handy for those of us in warmer climates.


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## Boosterwitch (Apr 15, 2002)

MarkSR20 said:


> *ryan: is your car the first to have the Fmax kit??? If so, how many miles are on your car now? *


Yes. It has over 100k miles on it, although it's been down for sometime.

If you inject water without changing anything else you would lose power. So it's important to have engine management to advance timing and/or change the fuel curve.

On my 392whp run I did have the water on with c16.


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## MarkSR20 (Sep 17, 2002)

Zak: read the post a little closer. I am not saying that he doesnt recommend using water. I put that he doesnt recommend not using water at high boost levels! And I thought that was you Ryan, how is the car treating you? Hope all is well and thanks for all the info!


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2002)

Ah, I get it. You got me with the double negatives.


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## MarkSR20 (Sep 17, 2002)

Yeah sorry about that! Well it looks like the winter is going to be project city. With a low budget and new technology, it looks like things are going to be interesting to say the least. I will definitly keep everyone updated! Have a good one!


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## SE-RtinMI (Nov 3, 2002)

I read somewhere that on a Bored stock MAF/370/FPR/ JWT 4bar program the T28 could run upwards of 275WHP near it's max.


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## MarkSR20 (Sep 17, 2002)

your right. It is actually 285whp. The only problem with that is, it is almost 2 weeks for every bar of fuel pressure before you get your ecu back. That is why I am not into doing it! Thanks for your reply!


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

> The only problem with that is, it is almost 2 weeks for every bar of fuel pressure before you get your ecu back.


 That's the downside and I can relate to that! Unless you live around the corner, you are kinda sorta up a creek without paddle.


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## psshhgoesmysr20 (May 1, 2002)

boost_boy said:


> *That's the downside and I can relate to that! Unless you live around the corner, you are kinda sorta up a creek without paddle. *


That statement would be true if JWT was the only thing out there, but there are a lot of alternatives out there, some good some bad. If you know what you are doing you should be good to go.


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

Though my dealings with JWT were bitter/sweet, I chose to go with a standalone system which works perfectly for me and my adventures and I do mean perfectly


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## MarkSR20 (Sep 17, 2002)

if my funds were there for stand alone I would do it. But I am stuck with doing JWT Items because of cost and ease of installation. Plus I need a car to drive daily and I dont have time to play with dyno's and charts just yet!!! Have a good one!


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

MarkSR20 said:


> *Well I have come to the conclusion that I am maxing out my injectors. I put down 246.9whp and 212.0 ft.lbs. on a stock pulsar t28 at 7psi. This is with 370cc injectors. I have a bored Stock maf with a 3bar JWT ECU program. I dont know where to begin. I dont want to go with 50lb. injectors just yet. I am waiting for the winter! What do I do for the time being??? Thanks and have a good one! *


Sorry I forgot to answer your post. The way to tell for sure if you are maxing out your maf is to measure the voltage of the singnal wire to the ecu when you are WOT in third gear past the torque peak. If you are pulling more than 5.1 volts, then you are maxing out the injectors.

Mike


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## MarkSR20 (Sep 17, 2002)

Thanks Mike for answering my post. I hope all is well out there in california. I will keep in touch after I do the test to see how much the car is reading for voltage. Thanks again!


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## W10DET2020 (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: Maxed out 370cc inj. at stock Boost!*



morepower2 said:


> *Sorry I forgot to answer your post. The way to tell for sure if you are maxing out your maf is to measure the voltage of the singnal wire to the ecu when you are WOT in third gear past the torque peak. If you are pulling more than 5.1 volts, then you are maxing out the injectors.
> 
> Mike *


Not true on the injector part.

The only way you can tell if your maxing out your injectors is by checking the duty cycle not the MAF sensor.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Maxed out 370cc inj. at stock Boost!*



W10DET2020 said:


> *Not true on the injector part.
> 
> The only way you can tell if your maxing out your injectors is by checking the duty cycle not the MAF sensor. *


Bullshit. Don't call me on this when you don't know what you are talking about. The injecotrs are at max duty cycle at 5.1 volts. On a Nssan, the fuel table address location is driven by RPM and MAF voltage.

How do you think a tech tom or a consult calculates duty cycle?

Mike


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## W10DET2020 (Sep 1, 2002)

A listen here book smart.

It might so happen that stock 370cc max out at a equivalent reading of 5.1 volts to the MAF but this is not by any means the accurate way of doing things becasue.......... say if I had 400cc injectors and my MAF pulled 5.01 volts my injectors would be maxed out, no, my MAF would be maxed out NOT my injectors.


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## MarkSR20 (Sep 17, 2002)

Do I hear someone challenging Mike K. on this? I want to hear more. Thanks, sorry I havent checked the car out on this situation. It is pretty damn close to being maxed out if it is not! Thanks


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

W10DET2020 said:


> *A listen here book smart.
> 
> It might so happen that stock 370cc max out at a equivalent reading of 5.1 volts to the MAF but this is not by any means the accurate way of doing things becasue.......... say if I had 400cc injectors and my MAF pulled 5.01 volts my injectors would be maxed out, no, my MAF would be maxed out NOT my injectors. *


No they would not. Read what I wrote instead of trying to justfy your opinion.


Mike


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## SE-RtinMI (Nov 3, 2002)

I've just recently been told that JWT will send you the chip and you can swap it yourself. (It's supposedly socketed) I did my VW's chip numerous times so AS long as its socketed then it'll be easy. That eliminates the down time  They do require a 500 core until you send back the old chip.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

SE-RtinMI said:


> *I've just recently been told that JWT will send you the chip and you can swap it yourself. (It's supposedly socketed) I did my VW's chip numerous times so AS long as its socketed then it'll be easy. That eliminates the down time  They do require a 500 core until you send back the old chip. *


Yes the box is socketed and you can change the chip in about 10 minutes.

Mike


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## eric96ser (Apr 30, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *No they would not. Read what I wrote instead of trying tio justfy your opinion.
> 
> 
> Mike *


Mike, just admit that you don't know anything about turbos or tuning a car. Its okay, we will still like you


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## chriscar (Apr 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: Maxed out 370cc inj. at stock Boost!*



morepower2 said:


> *Sorry I forgot to answer your post. The way to tell for sure if you are maxing out your maf is to measure the voltage of the singnal wire to the ecu when you are WOT in third gear past the torque peak. If you are pulling more than 5.1 volts, then you are maxing out the injectors.
> 
> Mike *


I had a thought along those lines. Anyone think about using a turbo timer to display the MAF voltage. Some of them come with o2 and/or battery monitors. What about running one of the sensor lines to the MAF signal instead and using it as a MAF monitor?

Chris


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## W10DET2020 (Sep 1, 2002)

Hello,

Apex SAFC monitors the MAF voltage as well and the Apex TT monitors A/F ratio or O2 sensor voltage which ever you perfer as well as a battery voltage indicator and either manual or auto turbo timer.


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