# Does replacing the transmission & radiator fix the problem?



## Benpier (Sep 5, 2014)

Was contemplating buying a 2005 Pathfinder. Consumer Reports showed bad ratings for transmission, but was told that it was actually a faulty radiator issue. Talked to the dealership about it and they agreed they would put in a new radiator. 

Bought on Tuesday. 
Transmission went out on Friday.
Returned to dealer and asked for my money back.

They would put in a remanufactured Nissan transmission and a larger radiator at their expense.

Does this solve the problem? I've been reading countless message boards and reviews on this car, and I can't find a straight answer. I don't want to be driving a car that needs multiple transmission replacements.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Believe its a transmission cooler issue, and the tranny either leaks fluid into rad or coolant gets into tranny fluid. I think a transmission oil cooler install is supposedly the best solution for averting the risk. If the engine is good, that offer from the dealer is probably a good bet. If you get any form of extra warranty on the new work, I would say its a real value.


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## Benpier (Sep 5, 2014)

quadraria10 said:


> Believe its a transmission cooler issue, and the tranny either leaks fluid into rad or coolant gets into tranny fluid. I think a transmission oil cooler install is supposedly the best solution for averting the risk. If the engine is good, that offer from the dealer is probably a good bet. If you get any form of extra warranty on the new work, I would say its a real value.


So in addition to the new radiator and transmission I should ask for a transmission oil cooler?

They are offering a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty on the transmission. My guess was that if it fails again it would be past that though...


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

On the edmunds review section pfluvr wrote the following about How to love your Pathfinder

Step 1
''Have your transmission cooling lines disconnected from the radiator! There is an external auxialiary transmission cooler that does the job already. The only problem you may encounter is hard shifting in extreme cold. You can, if you want put another auxillary cooler on your truck., but unless you are maxing towing capacity everyday you will not need it. The stock cooler is very large.''

Step 2-- ''You have basically cured the only problem you will ever encounter, except for some little maintenancy things. Enjoy!''

So discuss this with dealer or dont and have it done afterwards. New Rad, coolant and transmission is not too bad to get for a 2005 vehicle. At least that is my take. Hopefully some other actual Pathfinder owners will chime in.


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## Benpier (Sep 5, 2014)

Thanks.

Yeah, if there is any 05-06 Pathfinder owners out there that can shed some light, I'd appreciate it!


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

The issue is the radiator's integral transmission oil cooler located inside the bottom tank of the radiator. This is a design that is used by all manufacturers on auto trans vehicles and has been used for decades. Calsonic makes the radiators for Nissan. On 2005-2010 Pathfinder, Frontiers and Xterras, there were a lot of radiators that had a seal fail in the integral cooler that allowed coolant/ATF cross-contamination. The coolant gets pushed into the cooler line, back to the automatic transmission, where damage to the transmission occurs. There is also an air-to-air auxiliary transmission cooler located in front of the A/C condensor, behind the grille, on North American models. Aftermarket radiators, the revised Nissan radiators, and those radiators in non-US models (ie Pathfinders make in Spain for the European market) are not known to have this problem. While many owners feel the radiators should have been recalled, one was never issued. Nissan did lose when taken to court over the issue in NY State which prompted them to extend the radiator warranty (again) and limit damage expense, depending on mileage up to 100,000 miles. 
There are two fixes for this issue. One is to replace the radiator as preventative maintenance. Choices vary from the $450 genuine Nissan replacement, aftermarket replacements (many made in China) as cheap as $74 on Ebay or an all-aluminum radiator. I heard Griffin radiators had an all-aluminum for around $550. Stillen Motorsports was going to offer one for $350, but I'm not sure if it's available, yet.
Second option is the "bypass method." This involves disconnecting the lines to the cooler and capping them off, then re-routing the cooler lines so they bypass the radiator and utilize the auxiliary air-to-air cooler only. As far as the ATF, it should be operating in the 175-210 degree F. range. Those that have installed temp gauges on their tranny fluid have see temperatures around 150-165 degrees F. While this is a little cooler than spec, there haven't been any issues noted so far; there is really no need to add a second auxiliary cooler. The concern is in very cold temperatures, especially for those that live in the northern US or Canada where temps can drop below zero, or for those that haul heavy loads. Besides offering additional cooling, the radiator's integral cooler also warms the fluid, which makes it a better regulator of the ATF operating temperature. 
Radiator replacement is a bit tougher in these Pathfinders than it was in the earlier WD21 and R50 models. Labor guide gives about 3.0 hours, which is about right. Part of the problem is that the A/C condensor shares the lower mounting with the radiator, so it has to be suspended to remove the radiator. Also, the R51 radiators have side brackets with mounts, that have to be maneuvered around the A/C lines going to the condensor. For my '06 LE, I chose to get an aftermarket radiator off Ebay for around $92 and free shipping. It was made in China, but quality appeared to be very good and I had no issues with fit. The only difference I found was that the drain petcock was a different pitch thread than the OEM, but it came with a new one, so it was a non-issue. So far I have two years on it, without any issues. I also replaced the foam seals on it, which were inexpensive from Nissan. Many have chosen to go with Spectra Premium radiators, which run about $120, which are based in Canada, but I believe many of their radiators are made in China, as well. 
If you choose the "bypass method," which I did in my friend's 08 SE, you'll want about three feet of 5/16" automatic transmission cooler hose, two 5/16" vacuum caps, a can of Kooler Kleaner to flush out the cooler in the radiator before you cap it off and some small hose clamps. There are two different methods, depending on year, as the auxiliary cooler was moved from the right side, on 05-07 models, to the left side, on 08-and-later models. 
If the dealer is willing to replace the transmission with a Nissan reman. unit and replace the radiator, I'd be happy with that! I wouldn't do the bypass as you shouldn't have the issue with the new, updated radiator.
As far as Edmund's statement that you won't have any other problems, that remains to be seen. Some people don't, but many people do have other problems, especially in the 05-07 models, and to a lesser extent the 08-10 models. If you're lucky, the main problems have been addressed by the previous owner(s). Another big problem is the upper timing chains wearing through the upper tensioner "feet," as they are called. The "feet" are a plastic guide on top of the tensioner plunger. Supposedly, Borg Warner, who makes the timing set, made the chain links too sharp on the upper timing chains, which causes them to cut into the "feet." When they get down to the hardened steel plunger of the tensioner, it makes a loud "whine" noise, similar to a bad P/S pump noise. This is usually first heard at start-up and during acceleration and gets louder over time. This can occur as low as 25000 miles or well over 100,000 miles; there is no common mileage interval. The upper chains and tensioner "feet" have been updated, but replacement requires removal of the engine front cover, which is a significant job that can run $1200-2000 at a shop. 
Other problems include bad electrical grounds, fuel pump sending unit issues, squeaky hood latches, rear control arm bushings that seize and prevent wheel alignment adjustments, evaporator drain leaks into the passenger compartment, bad oil gauge senders, noisy serpentine belt tensioners (a tensioner and belt kit was developed to address this), bad ECM relays, leaking coolant and/or A/C lines to the rear heating unit, front sway bar mount bushings that collapse and cause a knocking noise (updated bushings available from Nissan), temperature control inconsistencies...to name a few. Also, many find the rear springs to be weak and ride unsettled, so a common upgrade a rear Bilstein HD shocks combined with Airlift 1000 air bags. 
A worthwhile site for R51 info is: The Nissan Path :: The World Wide Nissan Pathfinder Owners Forum :: R51 / R50 / WD21 :: www.TheNissanPath.com


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## Benpier (Sep 5, 2014)

Man, I feel awful for buying it now. I don't want to be pouring money in for repairs while still paying it off.

The fuel pump & computer module has been replaced already according to the car fax. Unfortunately I definitely hear the whine associated with the tensioners. We heard it while test driving but having never owned a Nissan we thought that's just how they sounded. We've done countless hours of research on this vehicle and didn't read anything about this.
I've only ever owned Jeeps, never had one problem, & now I'm regretting not sticking with them.


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## Benpier (Sep 5, 2014)

I am still under my 3 month powertrain warranty, would the timing chain be covered under that?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Wow, that is a detailed answer smj. Sadly it appears too much information can be perceived as a bad thing. Of course not all vehicles suffer the same problems, and as with any used truck they haven't all been treated or maintained the same way.

Benpier, I would say yes the timing chain should be covered by the powertrain warranty. Again you are going to have to deal with the dealer you bought it from.
Hopefully they are willing to fix it, or even pay a good chunk of any repairs needed. 
But its also possible that the whine you are hearing is serpentine belt related.

I am not so convinced a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee would be less potentially problematic. But in either case its sometimes the luck of the draw when it comes to a 9 year old vehicle. Here is to you being lucky with yours if you can get everything sorted.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

There are videos of the timing chain noise on You Tube if you want to compare the noise. The high-pitched "whine" usually comes first and then when it's really bad, the "clatter" starts to become more evident. Here are a couple of links:

Nissan VQ40DE Timing Chain Whine - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TZcgMvYqtE

It should be covered under your powertrain warranty and shouldn't be a problem in the future with the updated parts. I've done four of these timing chain jobs, personally. I almost never see wear on any of the other guides, but if there are a lot of miles on the engine, I replace the water pump (it's driven by the timing chain) and thermostat while I'm in there. 
You have to remember that 2005 was the first year for this model, along with the Xterra and Frontier. It always takes a couple of years to work out the "new model bugs." Hopefully somebody took care of the majority of them before you got it. If you can get the dealer to take care of the rad, trans and timing chains, then you already have addressed the two most expensive repairs that are common to these models.


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## Benpier (Sep 5, 2014)

Sorry for the next long story in my Pathfinder issue, but wondering if anyone has a similar problem or suggestions for the timing chain?

After the dealership had my car for two months they called to say the transmission and radiator are in. They didn't bother to check the timing chain even though I called 4 times about it. I told them I wouldn't drive it off the lot until it got inspected. Sure enough the mechanic said timing chain and tensioner needs to be replaced. Said they wouldn't pay for it because they already spent over $6,000 on it, and quoted me $700 to fix. I told them I would not pay because it's still under a powertrain warranty.Dealership called warranty company and the rep denied the claim saying the noise was a serpentine belt. Dealership called me back to say it's the chain and I need to pay out of pocket to have it fixed. I asked the dealership to replace the belt at my expense and call the warranty company to listen to the timing chain again. They said they wouldn't because the chain had to fail first.

So I called the warranty company to complain that 2 different mechanics have recommended the timing chain be replaced and I have the paper work to prove it, and I'm willing to get another opinion but betting that it's the same recommendation. They said all the dealership did was demonstrate that the noise was coming from the serpentine belt, and that if I can get another licensed mechanic to demonstrate it's from the chain then they'll cover it. So today I pulled my car from the dealer and have an appointment with another mechanic on Friday. 

Has anyone else has issues with being denied by the warranty company for timing chain and is there a trick to showing the rep that the noise is indeed coming from the chain?

If they deny my claim again, is $700 a reasonable price to replace it?

Any input is appreciated.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

I used to be an independent mechanical inspector for a number of insurance companies that provided automotive warranties. This was years ago, but I doubt the "business" has changed much. One of the things that usually became an issue during my inspections was whether the needed repair was "pre-existing." When a dealer sells a warranty, it is supposed to be in good mechanical order. They are supposed to check over the vehicle and repair what needs to be repaired prior to a customer purchasing the vehicle along with the warranty. Most warranty companies will usually have a 30-day grace period before they will pay for a repair. The reason they do this is so that a dealer doesn't to have the insurance company pay for repairs that the dealer should have fixed prior to selling the car. The warranty is insurance for parts that may fail, not for parts that were already broken at the time of the purchase. 
The best warranty programs are usually those from the manufacturer. Aftermarket warranties vary according to the insurance company that sells them and the coverage and limitations of the policy. Some are very good and some will fight paying a claim every inch of the way! In the case of the timing chain, they sent an inspector and it sounds like the mechanic wasn't able to provide sufficient proof that the timing chain was making the noise, rather the noise was coming from the belt. FYI, there was a Nissan TSB for belt noise on your vehicle, which is usually caused by the serpentine tensioner. The bulletin instructs to install a countermeasure belt and tensioner to fix the noise. Anyway, the best way for the inspector to observe the timing chain noise would be to hear the engine run with the serpentine belt removed (since the water pump is turned by the timing chain, this can be done without concerns of overheating the engine). This will eliminate the possibility of the noise coming from the belt, tensioner, or any of the drive accessories and pulleys. If the inspector agrees that it "could" be the timing chain, they may put you in the position of covering the cost to remove the front engine cover to inspect the chain and its components. If, upon inspection, he finds the damaged timing chain tensioner "feet" (as they are called) and the warranty company deems it a covered component, they well cover the teardown expense as part of the repair. If, upon inspection, they discover no problems or if the component is not covered under the terms of the warranty, they will deny the claim and you will be responsible for the teardown costs and subsequent costs to reassemble the engine. 
As far as the $700 to replace the secondary chains and tensioner feet, the cost is not out of line. I've heard of people paying in the $1200-1500 range for the same job.


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## Benpier (Sep 5, 2014)

Rereading your earlier posts smj, about when you've replaced timing chains you said you replace the water pump and thermostats while you're in there in if the miles are high. What do you consider high miles to be? Mine is at 106,000.

To continue the story, the 2nd mechanic I took it to said that he heard belt noise, but removed it to confirm there was noise from the timing chain. Unfortunately he read the bulletin and there are dealer specific tools needed to do the job and his tool guy said they wouldn't be able to get them. He documented everything on a work order and told me to call the dealership back with the information.

The dealership said today that the warranty company already denied their claim and that the 2nd mechanic would have to call the warranty company stating what they found and that they didn't have the proper tools and would need to send it to a dealer. He said there was no such thing as dealer specific tools though.

Called the 2nd mechanic back, he laughed, but said he'd call the warranty company for me and plead my case.

My warranty expires next month, I'm almost positive the bag will keep being passed until it lands in my lap.

I actually really enjoy the car, if I could just get someone to fix it.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

For a water pump, I consider 100,000 miles to be high miles. That doesn't mean it won't last for a lot longer, but considering the pump is driven by the timing chain and the front of the engine will be all apart, it just makes sense to replace it while you're in there, same for the thermostat, since the coolant will be drained, anyway.
As far as "dealer specific tools," the dealer is technically correct. They are specialty tools, which Nissan force ships to its dealers so that they can work on their vehicles. The tools are made by Kent-Moore and are available to anyone who wants to pay the usually high price for them. Kent-Moore makes quality, lifetime warranted tools that are, much like Snap-on Tools, not inexpensive. 
The tools listed in the bulletin aren't "necessary," but they do make the job a lot easier. One tool is a tensioner pin kit and a press tool. Tensioner pins are used to keep the chain tensioner plunger in place after it has been pushed back into the tensioner. After the chain and gears are in place, the pin is removed, allowing the plunger to push the tensioner "foot" against the timing chain to take out the chain slack. Most repair shops will usually have a few of these arounds, or paper clips can be "unbent" and used for such purpose.
The press tool is used to install and seat the new tensioner "foot" into the tensioner plunger. This tool is not really needed. I have a pair of Sears Robogrip plier plastic sleeves that I use on Channellocks to press the new tensioner foot onto the plunger. I've heard of some people pressing them on by hand, but they must have pretty strong hands as I can't do it!
The last tools is the ring gear stopper. This tool locks into the ring gear and keeps the crankshaft from turning. You need to have someone to tighten/loosen the crank pulley bolt as well as hold the cams in place when you loosen/tighten the cam gear bolts. If you have a 1/2" drive air gun, the crank pulley bolt isn't much of an issue. In order to torque the cam gear bolts, you need to hold them in place. With the ring gear stopper, the timing chains are used to hold the gears in place when tightening them. Without the tool, one has to use a wrench on the flats of the cams, which means the upper plenum and valve covers need to be removed, adding to the labor and parts (new valve cover gaskets and gaskets for the variable timing actuators). Kent-Moore tools can be purchased at HandsOnTools.com.
As long as the problem is documented at the shop and on paper prior to the expiration of the warranty, it will be covered as long as it's a covered component/repair under your policy.


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## Benpier (Sep 5, 2014)

Thanks for the info. 

What is the average price for labor and materials for water pump and thermostat? Water pump is covered under my warranty (at least that's what it states) but in case it's not considered "mechanical failure" I'll just pay for it out of pocket. I don't want to fight for everything on this.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

Yeah, it won't be covered under warranty unless it's a failed part, same for the thermostat. 
When I do them, I get the water pump and gaskets from Advance Auto Parts. They sell the Hitachi water pump #WUP0003 and Felpro water pump mounting set #ES 70894. Hitachi is the OE supplier of the water pump to Nissan, which is why I choose this option. It has to be shipped to home. Order online and use discount code "TRT30" for 30% off, and it'll total out to $59.98+tax & shipping. Free shipping at $75. 
The genuine Nissan water pump comes with the mounting set and retails for $155, or online for around $115+shipping. For the thermostat and gasket (they are sold separately from Nissan), I use genuine Nissan parts. They'll run about $25 from Nissan, or $15+shipping online. Keep in mind if you supply a non-genuine Nissan part (the Hitachi pump is not a genuine Nissan part, even if they are an OEM part supplier), and the part you supply fails, it will void the warranty. That said, the entire front cover does not need to be removed to replace the pump, but it is a bit of a job. 
Actual labor time to replace, while replacing the timing chain, is about 15 minutes. Each part has three bolts. The water pump has "O" rings and the thermostat has a metal shim gasket, so there's no gaskets to scrape off. If the shop charged an extra 1/2 labor, that would be fair, but I could see them tacking on an extra hour. You'll have to negotiate that with the service writer.


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## Peter McWilliams (Jun 2, 2016)

I have a 2005 R51 Auto pathfinder and live in Queensland , Austraila and have had my transmission ,radiator, and all hoses replaced,12mths ago,by Nissan workshop after coolant contamination .
So this problem is not restricted to US models.This did occur with 210,000kms on the vehicle ,I was looking at the bypass option,but appears from what I've read that with the new genuine Nissan radiator (2015 ) fitted last year ,it should be ok now.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

I have heard of a few in Australia having this issue. It doesn't seem to be as widespread as a problem as in North America, though. I haven't heard of any issues with those in Europe, so far. All I hear about those is that the rear door handles keep breaking!


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## Peter McWilliams (Jun 2, 2016)

The problem seems not widespread in Australia,but before buying this veichle second hand with 190,000klms on from a Nissan dealer here ,I spoke directly to their service manager and asked him about these possible coolant contamination problem,He assure me that no Austrailan veichles were affected, so I bought the Pathfinder and within 3 mths the worst happened,normally here that a new transmission,and whole cooling system would not be covered under 2 hand warranty ,but because of what the service manager had told me ,they fixed it, total cost for them $15,000. 
Funny thing though ,my rear door handles still work fine !


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

I hear about a lot of those handles breaking on Pathfinders in Great Britain. There are even a few YouTube videos on them.


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## DaleC (Apr 12, 2017)

smj is spot on with what my 2008 Nisan Pathfinder has done. I have had almost every problem he explains. I paid $40, 000 plus for my Pathfinder and have easily put $15,000 into it. I should have traded a long time ago. But, every time I fix it, I think this has to be the last time right????? Well, I just got my Pathfinder back last Tuesday. Replaced the radiator and hoses, thermostat and whatever else goes with that. Drove it for 2 days and the transmission went out. All related of course. Started with the heat not blowing hot air sometimes and that was years ago. It does take a while for the full effect of Nissans defects to get too deep into your pocket. If you call 4 years a while(that's when the problems started.


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## Getreal (Mar 10, 2018)

*Radiator tranny line removal*

The line going to the radiator is a tranny heater, not a cooler. Most call it a cooler, but it is not, but think about it if your motor runs 210, and the fluid is running through a radiator at 210 guess what your tranny is 210 also due to the heating process. If you live in northern states you need this that's why it is in the system. If you live in a hot southern state it is not needed. So if a northerner leave it on change your radiator every 60k, or keep the acidity levels checked on your antifreeze and change it in 30k intervals, or if it turns acidic.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

Getreal said:


> The line going to the radiator is a tranny heater, not a cooler. Most call it a cooler, but it is not, but think about it if your motor runs 210, and the fluid is running through a radiator at 210 guess what your tranny is 210 also due to the heating process. If you live in northern states you need this that's why it is in the system. If you live in a hot southern state it is not needed. So if a northerner leave it on change your radiator every 60k, or keep the acidity levels checked on your antifreeze and change it in 30k intervals, or if it turns acidic.


It's both a warmer and a cooler. True, it will warm the fluid to the temperature of the coolant around it. However, if the transmission fluid heats to a point that is hotter than that of the engine coolant, then it actually does work as a cooler. Ideal operating temperature for automatic transmission fluid is 175-200 degrees F., so being in the bottom tank of the radiator where temperatures are likely to run in the 175-195 degree range makes a lot of sense. I guess a more accurate name for the part would be a "transmission fluid maintainer," but it's just easier to say, "cooler."


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