# torque converters



## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

i was wondering if anyone knows if there are any stall converters that u can make act like normal converters with the flick of a button.i wanna find something like this for my auto tranny.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

as far as I know the fins determine the stall speed. they actually change the angle of the fins in the converter and stator, if so equiped. i visited Art Carr transmission once and saw them doing it. you can get a switch for a lockup converter but it won't affect stall speed, I see those on Dodge trucks that tow a lot...


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## nitestridar (Jun 29, 2002)

are you getting a TC anytime soon?

Thats my next on the list to do after all my moounts ..


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

me? no. I have the valve body shift kit. Just need to get it in the car. don't have time this month. after the shift kit I'm going to see how the car behaves and if need be I'm going to get it rebuilt but rebuilt to factory standards... I think the factory clutches can handle it if you have the shift kit.


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## nitestridar (Jun 29, 2002)

How much did that run you?

I am going to buy a edge racing TC for $450 shipped no core needed.

But I am also looking into the VB upgrade as well.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

well I'm not going to give out any details cuz I want to know this is a good thing before I go giving free advertisement for this company! but no more than the edge racing converter you're talking about!

It's not level 10 either! There stuff is overpriced and I don't think they do what they say they do!


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

so basically james, what u said inyour first post is that i can get a stall converter that i can make not have to rev up to the re set rpm and act like a regular torque converter. where is this art carr u speak of and is your shift kit B&M?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

no you cannot change the stall speed through a switch, yes you can change the lockup point by a switch (trucks have these switches put in to help towing)

I'm not going to comment on the shift kit until I'm sure it does the job! Thanks!

Art Carr does domestic transmission work, he's here in the Los Angeles/OC area. They needed a machinist a while ago so I went there to look but they needed over 60 hrs a week so I didn't take the job.


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

thanks for answering the switch question, now, do u know who makes them like that(with a switch)?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

to lockup the torque converter? i think you can almost do it yourself. the lockup signal is one of the only electrical components on the GA16DE tranny (the SR20 auto has A LOT more electronic controls but is very similar mechanically).


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

so if i get a stall converter with say stal speed of 3000 rpm i can put a switch on it and drive regular city driving without using the stall speed and when i go race i can simply flick the switch and use the stall speed. this is what i have understood thus far james. please clarify if i am getting something wrong. also, who do u recommend for a stall converter?


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## fastpakr (Sep 18, 2002)

No, you seem to be really confused. A torque converter is a stall converter - they are the same thing. The stall speed is a function of the fin design of the converter. The switch that James was referring to is for the lockup function for highway speed driving where there is no need for the converter to slip at all. You cannot electronically adjust the stall speed of the converter.


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

can't you just manually shift it to lock the TC?... if what i'm hearing is right, the switch is merely to lock the TC under load... but doesn't shifting 1-2-D-OD do that already?


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## fastpakr (Sep 18, 2002)

No, TC lockup is a separate function from gear selection. It will only be locked up when there is a low load condition for efficient cruising. When there is a load (low manifold vacuum) the computer will unlock the converter to allow the engine to move into its powerband better.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

yeah, if you lockup the converter when the load is too high the clutch will burn just like a manual tranny. If you lock it up when the car is at idle the car will stall.


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

what i meant was, that if you shift 1-2-D-OD, it locks in gear and prevents slippage... when it's in 1 or 2, the TC doesn't slip as much... i think.


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## fastpakr (Sep 18, 2002)

No, gear selection on the shifter is unrelated to TC lockup.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

niky said:


> *what i meant was, that if you shift 1-2-D-OD, it locks in gear and prevents slippage... when it's in 1 or 2, the TC doesn't slip as much... i think. *


during 1-2 the converter is slipping a lot because it is only a fluid coulpler. once the load is light, hence the car is moving, the converter locks up and from there it transfers 99% of the power of the engine like a manual.


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

ok. silly me. 

okay, just so i'm clear... the switch chages the lock-up point to a lower ENGINE speed, or WHEEL speed? when you say it can't change stall, doesn't that mean that the TC will STILL bite at xxxxRPM?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

yeah the switch can basically help power transfer if you lock up the converter earlier or at a higher load, during acceleration for example. 

stall speed cannont be changed from whatever the converter is designed to. so if the stall is at 2700 rpm, at that rpm the fluid in the tq converter is transferrring as much power as possible with a fluid coupling.


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

alright.....so what i understand NOW is that if i have a stall converter i will always have start offs at the preset rpm , and theres no way to have it not do that. would this be bad for city driving cause it seems to me like it would make to much heat for around town.


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

cool! wish someone could make one for the SR20... then maybe i could go for a reaaaaally high stall converter...  ...tell us how it comes out!


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

the thing about stall speed is that there is so many factors involved in what will change it. an advertised 3k rpm stall converter might stall at 2500 if the weight of your car is dramatically different then the weight of the tested vehicle. or if you are a heavily modified car and they tested the converter on a stock car then it will be different too. that's why in the FSM the manufacturer will give a broad range of your stall speed... like the 1.6 is like 2100-2700 i believe. 

if you make the stall too high it's not good either because you lose the 'creeping' ability of a proper stall speed converter, ie if you take your foot off the brake your car will start moving forward. so through normal city driving or traffic that could be a pain in the ass.... I think it may stall the car out if you make the stall speed too high as well. 

yes a high stall converter will make more heat. and yes they do have high stall converters for the sr20, check the sr20deforums, they have a few discussions about them. if they dont' have them, places like Art Carr will cut yours open and adjust the stall for you, that could be hit or miss though.


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

james: what you are saying is that if the stall speed of my ga's converter is 2100-2700 it will still be daily drivable? it wont make crazy wheel spin or anything like that?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

i'm saying from the factory your stall speed is 2100-2700. I don't remember if that is correct for sure but I think it's around there. Stall speed is higher for the GA's than the SR20.


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

ah, ok. so then a new stall convetre to raise my stall speed to, say about 3k rpm will still be streetable? i really need to make sure i know what u guys are saying so i dont end up making a very expensive mistake.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

I personally with a turbo motor, am going to keep my stock converter. One the higher stall adds heat. And I personally, think that on a turbo car the higher stall lessens the load on the engine initially and increases lag... I could be wrong... maybe I'm not thinking that through enough be either way I prefer reliablity over speed so I'm keeping the converter and doing the shift kit.


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

arent there any conveters that are more durable than stock and wont add a lot of heat?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

no it's the action of the tq converter that makes heat, not the part itself. it shears the fluid so the friction creates heat, the longer the converter is allowed to slip the more heat it will create.


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

ok, now i fully comprehend how this all works.


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## andre (Apr 30, 2002)

James said:


> *
> if you make the stall too high it's not good either because you lose the 'creeping' ability of a proper stall speed converter, ie if you take your foot off the brake your car will start moving forward. so through normal city driving or traffic that could be a pain in the ass.... I think it may stall the car out if you make the stall speed too high as well.
> *


I dont understand this. I have a 3000 rpm stall converter, but my car doesn't act any differently when I drive normally. The only time I feel any effect is when I floor it...


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

I think it's because it's such a small change. I forgot to check the FSM again last night but I think the oem stall speed IS 2100-2700 so if that's the case you only raised it by 300rpm


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

talking with selrider yesterday, he said the way to get a good launch is to hold down the breaks , punch the gas and then let go of the break when u get to the preset rpm. well, i tried this a few times last night. i dunno, felt awkward i dont think it helped. is there any pother way to get it to its stall speed faster?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

no that is the proper way to test your stall speed and get better launches too, don't neutral drop. when you torque brake it (put a foot on the gas and brake at the same time) don't go over 30 seconds and get a LARGE tranny cooler and mount it somewhere with good airflow. brake torquing puts a lot of heat in the tranny which is usually what destroys a tranny.

oh and you have to rev up the engine to the point where the engine starts to overcome your brakes... depending on your brakes it could be lower or higher than you expect.


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## nitestridar (Jun 29, 2002)

my stall is 2100-2300 I am looking for 2800-3000

When you torque brake the car don't punch it all the way hold the brake and give it gas about half way that should put you at stall. when you launch the car the press the pedal slow until you are at WOT that should help you reach redline or close to it..

In D of course and not 1st


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

thankls sel and james, now i know how to launch. must to buy tranny cooler now


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

get the new honey comb styel coolers, they're more durable and have better flow capabilities so it's more efficient. you can get them at JCWhitney or Summit Racing for about 50 bucks. Get a large one at least 19k lb gvw.


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

nice, thanks james! is there a specific brand i should consider?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

think only one company makes the honey comb style... i'll get a link here... 

B&M Tranny Cooler

that is the plate design but here's the kind I got, I didnt' get this size but this design:

honey comb style 

there is better fluid flow through this design and less of a pressure drop.

avoid this style, they're cheaply built and fragile, the fins bend everywhere and won't last very long:

Cheap, avoid


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

most excellent! ill get one asap


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## nitestridar (Jun 29, 2002)

I picked up a cooler made by TCI .. from www.jegs.com


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

definetly check them out too, I just wanted to show you the styles to get and the ones to avoid.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

Now... can someone find me a RL4F03V transmission off a Lucino VZ-R automatic??? Please!


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

isn't that the same stock number as ours? if you're looking for a spare converter to use as a core, i might know of one or two lying around the house...   

but if not... what's the difference?


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

niky: james is looking for the ones thats like ours, excpet it has vlsd. thats why hes looking for it. i wonder if the vlsd would bolt on our tranny tho


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

oh.... i am SO going to ask my mechanic to look for that one... he has a JDM contact... DAMNIT!!! NOW I WANT ONE!!!





errr... whoops, i forgot, i don't have a 1.6 anymore...


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

The RL4F03A is in the GA16DE cars the RL4F03V has VLSD and is found in Lucino VZ-R's... from what year I don't know. I don't know if it will bolt onto the GA16DE as well but I'd like to find out!

Don't be stingy if you find one let me know!


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## rios (Jun 10, 2002)

if you find two, let ME know


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## lighthouse (Sep 10, 2002)

Hi James,

Any idea where to get a matching valve body done up? I've an Edge Racing 3.2k rpm Torque Converter in my GA16DE B14 and would like to consider an upgraded valve body to match it...

BTW: I'm not in USA. So wondering if the company could possibly ship one to Asia? Reason why I went with Edge Racing over Level 10 (which required me to ship over my TC for modification)....



James said:


> *The RL4F03A is in the GA16DE cars the RL4F03V has VLSD and is found in Lucino VZ-R's... from what year I don't know. I don't know if it will bolt onto the GA16DE as well but I'd like to find out!
> 
> Don't be stingy if you find one let me know! *


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

wow... you went all the way back here for that? PM James, man!


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