# Noise after installing new upper tensioner



## pepperjack13 (Jun 20, 2010)

So I installed a new upper tensioner in my 97 sentra using the instructions in a very well known thread in this forum and now there is a clickin sound coming from the timing chain area (the "old" sound is still there too). Is it normal? did it make the same noise when you first replaced the upper tensioner? does anybody have any idea what could be wrong? It is more noticeable at idle but maybe i don't hear it while running because of all other noises. I see no way something like replacing the upper tensioner could go wrong; it's relatively simple to do. 

BTW the other sound didn't go away since the old tensioner still had some plastic left. I have no idea what could be causing it since everything appeared to be fine (timing chain, what I could see from the lower tensioner).


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## PhantomSunny (Apr 22, 2007)

Did you check the chain guides? These will make lots of noises when worn.


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## pepperjack13 (Jun 20, 2010)

Yes I did and they look good, the thing is that the it didn't make the clicking sound before replacing the upper tensioner and now it does so I assume it has something to do with it.

I am going to be driving 200+ miles this afternoon and it makes me worry, please help!


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## pepperjack13 (Jun 20, 2010)

I talked to the local mechanic a few hours ago and he said that the problem maybe that when I took off the old tensioner the timing chain got loose and maybe it jumped one of the teeth ending up misaligned. He said that if that is the case then the whole thing has to be replaced (the timing chain and everything else).

That was the most likely reason he mentioned. He said he charges $350 for labor plus all parts and it will take him about a week to do it. 

Now I am going to take valve cover and upper timing chain cover off to check the marks to make sure everything is fine and then call him so he can come over and inspect it.

I pray it is nothing serious, that the timing chain doesn't have to be replaced and that the car will be up and running just fine.


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## Centurion (Sep 5, 2002)

Immediately after I replaced mine upon the intitial start-up for a few seconds the engine sounded like it was about to explode. Thinking about it now, it's because the oil wasn't primed in the new tensioner, so I wonder if your tensioner leaks its oil supply when shut down. Let us know how it goes.


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## pepperjack13 (Jun 20, 2010)

A friend of mine recommended going to get a second opinion from his uncle who is a mechanic. Next day he inspected everything and the only bad thing he noticed was that the chain was loose. The new tensioner I installed was stuck and was not applying any tension to the chain, therefore causing it to rattle (the diesel-like sound). If your car is making the same noise, it might be having the same problem as mine.

He took out the tensioner to see what was wrong with it and there were a few very small particles in the "shaft" which is connected to the plastic piece (the one that makes contact with the timing chain). He clean it out but every time the tensioner was compressed and released more particles were coming out. We think these particles were causing the tensioner to stop working. I also remember that the old tensioner was stuck when I took it off but it was all the way up instead .

Next, he cleaned the piece until there were no more particles and then put everything else back together. I fired up the engine and the diesel-like noise was gone! I took my car for a test drive and it was running good. When I got home I thought I heard the same noise but I didn't have time to check (I had to drive 200 miles to work and I was running late).

Right now the rattle is back but I am not as worried because I know what the problem is and my logic is that if my car made it driving at 75 mph for like 3hrs, it sure should be fine driving around town. I am thinking that maybe the oil is to blame since it makes the tensioner work. 

My plan for the weekend is to change the oil (I am going to get synthetic instead of Pennzoil high mileage) and drive for a few minutes to see if the noise stops. If not then I am gonna have to take off the tensioner, clean it, put it back on and see if that works. If that doesn't work either, a new tensioner may be needed. If the problem persist after doing all of the above my last option will be to take it to the dealership and find out if they can tell me what the problem might be. 

Please share your thoughts and/or ideas. I will let you know how it goes.


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## Jopet (Aug 10, 2009)

I have the same observation. I replaced my tensioner about 3 weeks ago. When I started the car, it was horrible, but only for about 2 seconds, then the noise was gone. With an old engine, I guess there will be noises that will come out of it especially when the loudest noise is illiminated. Like my experience, I didnt know the engine was pinging.
I do have a noise that is consistent as before the tensioner was replaced. But its much deeper. Instead of metal chain slap, it sounds more like hard plastic chain slap. I figured the chain was still loose but slapping on the plastic part of the tensioner. Im opening my valve cover this Sunday and check it out. I am confident that the engine is going to be ok even if the chain is loose its not as loose as before.


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## Jopet (Aug 10, 2009)

I was able to take off the valve cover to take a look at the chain and tensioner. Seemed ok at first but I turned the engine manually, backwards first, the chain slacked. I didn't expect that. The slack was about 1 link. Took a look at the tensioner and poked it with a screw driver. It seemed to be at the extended position, it could not move any further. 
Next, I figured, the engine does not move backwards so I moved it forward and the tension on the chain was fine until I got to #1 TDC. The intake cams move farther than the chain was pulling resulting in a slack again on the chain. 
Anyone knows if this is normal? Would my chain be stretched that it has a slack? 
Thanks


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## PhantomSunny (Apr 22, 2007)

The chains can "stretch". The play in each link can become so much that the chain actually gets longer as tension is placed on it. Over the years I have have gotten into the habit of changing everything at once. I just buy the entire kit and change tensioners guides and chains all at the same time. Saves me pulling down the front of the car over and over. My last change was 5 years ago. I have the next set bought and stored already waiting on the first set of rattles.


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## pepperjack13 (Jun 20, 2010)

JOPET: The chain in my car is loose but it is because the tensioner is not working. I also had to move the first cylinder to TDC to check the timing marks. Do the marks in the sprocket match the marks in the chain when you have it at TDC? In my car they do not match but I am not sure if it is because of something I did or for some other reason. As in your case, I hope the chain in my car doesn't stretch too much that it will start skipping the teeth in the sprocket.

PhantomSunny: Is it really that hard and expensive to change the timing chain, guides, tensioners, etc?


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## PhantomSunny (Apr 22, 2007)

Expensive is relative to where you are located. In my country any kind of mechanic work is expensive. The process is not that difficult but requires quite a bit of teardown as the entire engine front cover has to come off to get at the lower chain and related stuff. The lining up of all related marks during reassembly is *critical *. You should also remember that you are working in confined spaces so it makes it that much more tedious. So once you have to go to that extent I just figure why pull down twice. Besides worn parts will quickly damage new parts. A chain which has worn and is slapping the guides and tensioner will probably wear out a brand new set of parts in half the time.


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## Jopet (Aug 10, 2009)

Pepperjack13 - not really definite about marks on the sprocket and chains. the holes on the sprocket was about in the right place but the only distinct mark on the chain is a painted link which was way off! the link was about at the middle of the sprockets. But the cams for #1 was pointing outwards like a mirror image. I figured that was correct, on the spark stroke the valves are closed. 

cost - the upper tensioner is about a bit difficult but with the right research and mechanical knowledge that can be done. Its a straight forward unscrew replace and screw back on. Gaskets and sealants are very useful and should be included in the task.
The timing chain I don't know. I am still reading all that I can from this forum. So far I do not like what I am finding. it seems that you will have to replace the oil and the whole front of the engine has to come off. I've just replcaed my a/c belt and the experience was not fun. Anything that you have to work on the fire wall side of the engine is not an exciting idea. Which may be a reason to increase labor costs. Aside from that, I was already assuming that I may need that chain replaced when I bought the car but I am very timid in doing this with all the alighnment that is needed to make sure the engine runs correctly. 
I'll research more and maybe solicit help from my brother's friend who is a nissan mechanic. Else, save up and pay for the labor. I guess if I could afford $400 buck for rims and $600 for my sound system, I sould be able to spend around $200 for this kind of repair.


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## PhantomSunny (Apr 22, 2007)

Jopet said:


> Pepperjack13 - not really definite about marks on the sprocket and chains. the holes on the sprocket was about in the right place but the only distinct mark on the chain is a painted link which was way off! the link was about at the middle of the sprockets. But the cams for #1 was pointing outwards like a mirror image. I figured that was correct, on the spark stroke the valves are closed.
> 
> cost - the upper tensioner is about a bit difficult but with the right research and mechanical knowledge that can be done. Its a straight forward unscrew replace and screw back on. Gaskets and sealants are very useful and should be included in the task.
> The timing chain I don't know. I am still reading all that I can from this forum. So far I do not like what I am finding. it seems that you will have to replace the oil and the whole front of the engine has to come off. I've just replcaed my a/c belt and the experience was not fun. Anything that you have to work on the fire wall side of the engine is not an exciting idea. Which may be a reason to increase labor costs. Aside from that, I was already assuming that I may need that chain replaced when I bought the car but I am very timid in doing this with all the alighnment that is needed to make sure the engine runs correctly.
> I'll research more and maybe solicit help from my brother's friend who is a nissan mechanic. Else, save up and pay for the labor. I guess if I could afford $400 buck for rims and $600 for my sound system, I sould be able to spend around $200 for this kind of repair.


The oil has to be drained as the oil pump is a part of the engine front cover. In your shoes I would seriously consider paying for labour. One must recognize when one is in over ones head.


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## Jopet (Aug 10, 2009)

Ive been wanting to ask, have been reading a lot of posts, but could not find it.
If it was to change only the upper chain, is it still necessary to remove the front cover? Can I get away with just the timing cover off?
I have not done this kind of repair. can the exhuast cam sprocket be removed on its own without anything else being affected? and cna the chain lowered and fit on the lower sprocket then installed on the cam sprockets? 
Asking because I really cant remember how it looks like after the upper tensioner replacement.


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## pepperjack13 (Jun 20, 2010)

An update to my original post:

I finally got around to change the oil to my car but it didn't fix the problem (didn't have high hopes anyways since the tensioner was already stuck). Next day I went ahead and took everything apart (for the fourth time!). This time I noticed that as soon as I loosen up the screws in the tensioner, it immediately applied tension to the chain. Weird. I cleaned the tensioner once again but this time I did not see any of the particles I had notice before (the synthetic oil did its job). After installing it, right after releasing the pin I used to hold it compressed, the freaking thing did not move! it was stuck. 

While proceeding to remove the screws that hold it in place to see why it was not working this time, the tensioner applied tension right away so I did not remove it after all hoping that I wouldn't have to do this all over again. So FINALLY the diesel-like sound is gone but the other one (the one that get louder as you accelerate but disappears while driving at a steady speed) is still there.

I am still not sure what caused the tensioner not to work, could have been the particles is the oil or maybe I tighten up the screws a little too much. I am not too worried about the other noise since it doesn't seem too bad and I am hoping to get a new car by the end of the year. I have been looking at sporty cars in the $2000-$4500 price range but there isn't really much with good power. The 2000+ mitsubishi eclipses with the V6 look decent, any other you recommend?


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## Jopet (Aug 10, 2009)

I've been reading a lot of posts in the forum and found that the tensioner is actually hydralic. I remember when I was checking it out and was poking it with a screw driver, there was a squishing noise coming from the tensioner. I have no idea how the oil flows though. I did find from the tensioner we pulled out the the circle in the middle of the plastic that has contact with the chain has a small hole that squirts oil. And on the side of the tensioner that touches the head, there is a canal that could have matching hole on the head. This maybe the reason that the tensioner releases or gets pushed when it is loosened. There could be some back pressure somewhere that prevents the oil from building pressure to push the tensioner. 
4x the charm? I'm diving on my second. But I believe I have a different situation. I'll be changing the upper chain since there is a slack even when the tensioner is fully extended. Just waiting for the part and budget some time for the work


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## pepperjack13 (Jun 20, 2010)

It does work that way, the little hole in the plastic part seems to lubricate the chain


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## Jopet (Aug 10, 2009)

hey pepperjac13, since you have done open the timing cover a lot of time, I guess you are the best to ask - did you skip any of the steps in the sticky "replacing the upper timing tensioner" ?
We did not remove the power steering reservoir. that was not obstrcuting anything for my car. And I read somewhere that it was possible not to remove the engine mount. But you had to wiggle the timnig cover to remove it. Which post a question on how it will not leak when installing it. 
Any shortcuts that will not sacrifice expected results will be very much appreciated!!
Thanks


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## pepperjack13 (Jun 20, 2010)

Just like you said jopet, it is not necessary to remove the power steering reservoir (i did removed it the first tiime though). I did not remove the motor mount since it seemed like too much work but removing it can make it a lot easier later on when it comes time to try to put the timing cover back in place. My advice is that if you have somebody to help you or if it seems like you can remove it (my "made in china" ratchet didn't seem to be able to handle it), do it. 

It does take some wiggling to put the upper timing cover back on because of the rtv and limited space, just take your time and you will be fine. 
Another tip I have not heard anybody else mention before, before you put the valve cover back on, apply rtv sealant to the exhaust camshaft bearing cut-out since it may leak a little bit of oil (I still have to do that).

Other than that just follow the instructions posted somewhere else here and everything will be ok. If possible, let me know if in your car the marks in the sprocket match the ones in the chain. Hope that helps


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## Jopet (Aug 10, 2009)

ok. just completed opening the timing cove once again to attemp to replace the upper timing chain. Not possible. The chain will not come out without removing both sprockets. And not enoough clearance at the idler sprocket as well. 
But I did open a can of worms. It could be good or bad, I found that the intake and exhaust sprockets have a tooth chipped off. And the idler sprocket had at least 4 teeth broken, not consecutive though. I need to save up on that. Big job.
I did inspect the chain and I did not see any damage or signs of wear. And the chain links was not off. What's I cant figure out is why the chain is still making the noise when the tensioner is working. The slack between the cam sprockets is caused by the intake cam moving forward when valves closes and pushes the lobes. I guess the tensioner moves in and out every quarter turn of the cams.
A bit disappointed now not being able to do what I want.


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