# 10,000+rpm vq30



## allmotormax (Mar 31, 2003)

10,000+rpm VQ30.........I basically need to know who i should get the valvetrain components from, and whether a jdm intake would be up to the task or if anyone makes a sixpack style throttle body system. I plan on getting rods and bumping the compression a little, should i get pistons too or are the stock forged units sufficient to take the beating. i figured i'd use jwt for the engine management for reliability purposes, seeing as i don't believe in trailor queens, i don't want it down every other week, any better ideas would be appreciated. The very few people i've found with similar engines claim the automatic transmission needs reinforcing throughout, anyone making big power with the vq30 please let me know what you think about the trannys strengths and weaknesses


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## kesi24 (Mar 25, 2003)

Why do you want to rev that high?You dont need a high rpm limit to make power on a vq.....kesi24


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## allmotormax (Mar 31, 2003)

2 reasons, 1st 250 lb ft. of torque at 6000 rpm is around 325 horsepower, same 250 lb ft. of torque at 9500 rpm is around 460 horsepower, plus because the engine is working less to make the power(and no just because it is spinning faster doesn't mean it is doing more work) less heat will be produced. alot of people don't realize this but the vq30 is the same engine(minus two cylinders) as ran in IRL cars although the indy cars are built of course. 2nd you are correct i don't need to twist it that fast to make power, this car will have a modified ohlins suspension for an r34 under it, the extra revs will allow me to have a broader range of gearboxes, and if i can swing it<wish me luck everyone> i may actually be able to keep the low end, everyone thing works out on paper but that doesn't always transfer to real life as we all know. and just so i know have you ever heard an engine cranking out 10 grand plus???


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## s13sr20chris (Apr 22, 2003)

well your math is fine if you can port the heads to breath at that kind of rpm's. as well as big ol cams. plus you need solid lifters. etc. theres a lot to figure here.


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## allmotormax (Mar 31, 2003)

yup lots to figure out brother, since the engine in my car is still so strong i'm mainly worring about the aero parts, weight reduction etc. i figure i'll buy the parts i want for the motor and when it finally breaks i'll make it a fire breather. 185,000 miles and still hauling ass


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2003)

Sounds like you need to compile much more knowledge about this subject. Using a JWT ECU to control an engine running to 10,000RPM? This pipe dream is going to cost you $25,000 why would you skimp out on engine management? 

Oh and you said "the few people I've found with similar engines" I'd like to know where you supposedly found these people? Point me to a 10,000RPM VQ. I know of a guy running an 8500RPM redline on a built and turbocharged VQ30 but 8500 is a far cry from 10,000.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

allmotormax said:


> *10,000+rpm VQ30.........I basically need to know who i should get the valvetrain components from, and whether a jdm intake would be up to the task or if anyone makes a sixpack style throttle body system. I plan on getting rods and bumping the compression a little, should i get pistons too or are the stock forged units sufficient to take the beating. i figured i'd use jwt for the engine management for reliability purposes, seeing as i don't believe in trailor queens, i don't want it down every other week, any better ideas would be appreciated. The very few people i've found with similar engines claim the automatic transmission needs reinforcing throughout, anyone making big power with the vq30 please let me know what you think about the trannys strengths and weaknesses *


An engine that makes power that high would be absolutly unstreetable, like zero torque and a high lumpy idle. That and there are no comercialy avalible camshafts or valvetrain componets up to the task. An automatic transmission with a high enough stall speed to work with such an engine would be highly unstreetable as well.

Mike


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## allmotormax (Mar 31, 2003)

1 well i figure an aem race set up should take care of engine management, 2 by similar engines i mean high rpm, 8000 plus. i know i will need custom cams. i don't know of any forced induction cars running that high rpm period, too much heat even for the best intercoolers on the market. 3 ever ridden a street bike, they idle fine and rev to 13000 plus rpm, and they pull from idle. besides gearing also affects how well a car is streetable, i've heard of a company in japan that makes a six speed that can be set up like an indy car, with the first 4 gears for driving and the top 2 to pull past 200 mph, whether this company exists i don't know i'm still searching. this car is not being built to drag race but for top speed, and as i've said before i'm developing a plan key word there developing, and about the valvetrain you should go to an irl event most of the infiniti teams use off the shelf ferrea valve components and they rev to 11500. power is made on a natural aspirated engine by very careful devopment of the ports/intake manifold cam combination, it may take several tries to get it right but that is part of the fun isn't it, i'll admit i'm new to imports but i've helped build/ built naturally aspirated 5.0 that would make you shit your britches. just takes time and careful planning and even more careful execution, thanks for your comments guys, oh and i still haven't ruled out the possibility of scrapping the fuel injection and running methanol with 6 35mm webber carbs, i've got alot more experience with them than engine management systems


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## s13sr20chris (Apr 22, 2003)

well, it sounds like you are ready to spend some money. i dont think its impossible, but it would be tough. its all uncharted territory, most stuff will have to be fabricated or custom made, and engine life expectancy cant be too long. i would love to see what happens if you are successful. i just would not try something of that sort myself. heres a though...
...why not skip that irl poopy altogether. shoot for f1. they rev to almost 20k with no mechanical valvetrain parts, no off the shelf anything, and 800+ hp from naturally aspirated 3.0 liter v10's.
j/k


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

allmotormax said:


> *1 well i figure an aem race set up should take care of engine management, 2 by similar engines i mean high rpm, 8000 plus. i know i will need custom cams. i don't know of any forced induction cars running that high rpm period, too much heat even for the best intercoolers on the market. 3 ever ridden a street bike, they idle fine and rev to 13000 plus rpm, and they pull from idle. besides gearing also affects how well a car is streetable, i've heard of a company in japan that makes a six speed that can be set up like an indy car, with the first 4 gears for driving and the top 2 to pull past 200 mph, whether this company exists i don't know i'm still searching. this car is not being built to drag race but for top speed, and as i've said before i'm developing a plan key word there developing, and about the valvetrain you should go to an irl event most of the infiniti teams use off the shelf ferrea valve components and they rev to 11500. power is made on a natural aspirated engine by very careful devopment of the ports/intake manifold cam combination, it may take several tries to get it right but that is part of the fun isn't it, i'll admit i'm new to imports but i've helped build/ built naturally aspirated 5.0 that would make you shit your britches. just takes time and careful planning and even more careful execution, thanks for your comments guys, oh and i still haven't ruled out the possibility of scrapping the fuel injection and running methanol with 6 35mm webber carbs, i've got alot more experience with them than engine management systems *


Methanol and a constant mesh transmission, thats a street car? Heat build up has noting to do with FA motors and revs. FA motors have reved to as much as 14,000 or more.

Valve train development is very difficult, you can't just go to any cam grinder and expect results. What you will end up with is a shifter around small block chevy master lobe which will suck for a shim and bucket drivetrain. You also have to consider up to 7th order harmonics and how the cam profile will excite the valvetrain.

All this needs to be considered to built an engine that revs that high. Repeat it will not be streetable no matter what gearatio. I suggest you study what it take to build a motor. Yo uhave no idea what you are getting into.

Nissan IRL cars do not run off the shelf Ferrara valvetrain componets, in fact the springs and stuff are made by a different company.

Not that your project is not impossible but it won't be streetable or even be a pleasent street car and it will cost lots of money, like lots and lots of money, like in the 30k range to do it right.


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## allmotormax (Mar 31, 2003)

ok so i guess we'll all agree stage one should consist of the aero parts, 8500 redline?<see what happens from there?> webber carbs or japanese intake<extrude honed>w/aem ecu? measuring for the cage is done and being worked out. now to keep the suspension happy at 200 plusmph, i'[m thinking the only way i'll feel safe is to have either ohlins or maybe eibach custom one out. anyone got any cheaper ideas?????


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

You crazy, I like it!!


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> *You crazy, I like it!! *


I think you are just crazy. Have fun no matter what you do. If you have all this money, spend $300 and take a driving school at a real roadcourse. Then come back and tell me if you still want to sink the money into a car that will barely be driveable. I bet after that you will want to build a track car.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

allmotormax said:


> *ok so i guess we'll all agree stage one should consist of the aero parts, 8500 redline?<see what happens from there?> webber carbs or japanese intake<extrude honed>w/aem ecu? measuring for the cage is done and being worked out. now to keep the suspension happy at 200 plusmph, i'[m thinking the only way i'll feel safe is to have either ohlins or maybe eibach custom one out. anyone got any cheaper ideas????? *


currently you should probably do a little more homework. Ohlins does not make suspension for your car and eibach only makes springs. I suggest you call Ground Control Inc and have them make you a set of custom Advance Design racing shocks which will cost you about $2500 or custom Moton shocks which will cost you about $6000.

As far as the motor, even a 8500 rpm redline is not easy or cheap to obtain. How much money do you want to spend? You are not going to be able to make enough power NA to reach 200 mph. Its going to require at least 500 hp to do so in a car with the Maxima's frontal area. Even if you were to make 100 hp per liter, you would only be making about the high 200's to the wheels over a narrow powerband. This would sorta suck in a heavy car like a maxima.

Currently JWT is the only company with cams under development for the VQ motor and they are on the mild side intended for stock springs. Nismo is also working on some cams that are a little more radical and so is HKS however these parts may only be avalible in Japan for the Z33 and are still inteneded for reving less than 7500 rpm.

To rev to 8500, you would need to hire a camshaft design consultant, probably like JWT or sunbelt and have them design the cam and springs using QR buckets which will fit and give you more area and less weight. This would cost about 6000 or more depending on how many iterations of lobe profile you wanted to test, I would say 6000 per attempt and it would take 2-3 probaly to find the best combo. Then you would need to have headwork done, figure on $3000 for that, $1000 for custom rods, $800 for custom piston at least 11:1, $1000 for custom ECU and programing, $3000 for custom headers from hi-tech exhaust and about $3000 for a custom manifold. You might have 300 hp over a narrow range after all of this work.

Then you could get PAR to make you a close ratio gearset for about $4000. You still would not have the power needed to make 200 mph.

Mike


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## s13sr20chris (Apr 22, 2003)

ok i originally thought this was kind of a silly idea...
...now, with all the money and work involved, it sounds like fun.
mike really laid it down though. guess it wont happen.


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## allmotormax (Mar 31, 2003)

well i know it's definitely not like getting 500 hundred horses from a v8, but ok let's say on engine/tranny around 20,000, the car as far as it goes is covered, suspension ohlins does make a suspension for a skyline and it can be modified easily. from what i've found out the best bet i think i've got is an rb26, full cage rwd, i've got a friend who is a computer nut that gets programs from places, and he's got some cad stuff that well it amazed me and that isn't easy to do, so i figure with all the design knowledge out there and the software and cage builder we can emulate a really trick suspension setup. tell me what you think i should dofor all the technology that these cars have, design advancements materials advancement, you can still go out and build a pushrod engine that can thump the fuck out of "our " cars all things being equal, don't make no sense dollar for dollar you just can't beat 8 cylinders.


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## s13sr20chris (Apr 22, 2003)

what? V8? why even bring that possibility up? rb, rwd, are we still talking maxima at all? or even all motor for that matter? i like the ideas tho.


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## allmotormax (Mar 31, 2003)

v-8 isn't a possibility, well it is but it's not what i want to do, been there done that, well not in a maxima. anyway, my uncle is designing the cage, that is costing me 2000 for the chromoly chip tubing, it's 2 inch 1/8 wall i think it may be smaller in diameter but not much. once the cage is done, which is pretty much waiting on an engine selection since apparently my idea won't fly. i'm initially spending 10,000 on the engine and initial upgrades<which is half of my enlistment bonus, Go Navy!!!!!!!!> i've seen rb26's for 4000 and some change shipped, help me if there are any cheaper, that'll leave a little over 5 for fun time. i know the rb is stout as hell i've seen 1200hp stock bottomed skylines alot lately so where should i spend the money, i figure 600+ from one of these bad boys is just a matter of parts. so i figure i'll go to work on the head and engine management, the stock turbo's are good for 400 from what i've learned, so i figure i'll get rods and the head ready for 6-7 hundred horses, all the while jason<design/computer nut> should come up with a really trick suspension setup, anyone seen the hks altezza??? i'm learning as much as i can find on rb swaps and i've found some really good websites and companies, very willing to share knowledge. my last car was a real frankenstein but i could pin a hundred dollar bill on the dash, hit the throttle, and you couldn't reach up and grab it. i want this car to come off clean. as it seems the only parts i'll be using from the maxima are the roof panels, doors and dash lol. what do you think mike? and s13 genius and insanity are on either side of a very fine line............


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## bizzy b (Apr 13, 2003)

hate to thwart your dreams again, but the RB26 has no chance of fitting the FWD layout of a maxima. first off, its for RWD, which is not interchangeable with FWD drivetrains. second, its an inline six, which will be entirely too long to fit sideways across that engine bay. another flaw i see is the "1200hp stock bottomed" comment. 700hp with stock botoom, yes. 1200hp with built bottom, yes. 1200hp with stock bottom, no way. other than that, an RB26DETT would be a great engine to make into an all-motor screamer since its head is already designed to flow that much air and it is set up with individual TB's from the factory


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

allmotormax said:


> *well i know it's definitely not like getting 500 hundred horses from a v8, but ok let's say on engine/tranny around 20,000, the car as far as it goes is covered, suspension ohlins does make a suspension for a skyline and it can be modified easily. from what i've found out the best bet i think i've got is an rb26, full cage rwd, i've got a friend who is a computer nut that gets programs from places, and he's got some cad stuff that well it amazed me and that isn't easy to do, so i figure with all the design knowledge out there and the software and cage builder we can emulate a really trick suspension setup. tell me what you think i should dofor all the technology that these cars have, design advancements materials advancement, you can still go out and build a pushrod engine that can thump the fuck out of "our " cars all things being equal, don't make no sense dollar for dollar you just can't beat 8 cylinders. *


A R34 Skylines suspension is nothing like a Maximas! You really need to do your homework. The Skylines motion ratios, weight distribution, etc. is nothing like the Maximas. The stuff won't have anything near the correct damping curves for your application. You need to really study what you are doing. An RB26 will not even come close to fitting into a Maxma it is a north/south located motor VS the Maxima's transverse engine and transaxle.

I mean you are getting so off line over whats posible that I don't think you are even serious or even really have a grip on reality. Do your homework.

Mike


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## Pretty White (May 6, 2002)

Is this Mike Jez?


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

allmotormax said:


> *v-8 isn't a possibility, well it is but it's not what i want to do, been there done that, well not in a maxima. anyway, my uncle is designing the cage, that is costing me 2000 for the chromoly chip tubing, it's 2 inch 1/8 wall i think it may be smaller in diameter but not much. once the cage is done, which is pretty much waiting on an engine selection since apparently my idea won't fly. i'm initially spending 10,000 on the engine and initial upgrades<which is half of my enlistment bonus, Go Navy!!!!!!!!> i've seen rb26's for 4000 and some change shipped, help me if there are any cheaper, that'll leave a little over 5 for fun time. i know the rb is stout as hell i've seen 1200hp stock bottomed skylines alot lately so where should i spend the money, i figure 600+ from one of these bad boys is just a matter of parts. so i figure i'll go to work on the head and engine management, the stock turbo's are good for 400 from what i've learned, so i figure i'll get rods and the head ready for 6-7 hundred horses, all the while jason<design/computer nut> should come up with a really trick suspension setup, anyone seen the hks altezza??? i'm learning as much as i can find on rb swaps and i've found some really good websites and companies, very willing to share knowledge. my last car was a real frankenstein but i could pin a hundred dollar bill on the dash, hit the throttle, and you couldn't reach up and grab it. i want this car to come off clean. as it seems the only parts i'll be using from the maxima are the roof panels, doors and dash lol. what do you think mike? and s13 genius and insanity are on either side of a very fine line............ *


Sure its doable but with $10,000? What is the heck is Chrome Moly chip tubing? Fabricated custom suspension, tube frame Maxima thats streetable? And doable on a Navy (or any normal type job amount of disposable income?) salary? A car like that designed by a computer geek with a PC cad system that probably does not understand suspension geometry or engineering?

Are you sure you have seen $1200 hp stock bottom end RB's? Sure they can make that much power but not with a stock bottom end!

Realisticaly, if you do a custom turbo system and build the motor with forged rods and pistons, then figure out a clutch then get racing shocks from Moton, Penske, Advance Design, JFZ using the stock suspension parts modified with sperical bearings, etc.

This might be close to what you originaly wanted and would cost you about $30,000 and is probably doable by regular local fabricators/engine builders.

Do your homework, unless you are Mike Jez, then haha funny thread!

Mike


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## allmotormax (Mar 31, 2003)

chromoly steel tubing is used in pro stock all the way up to top fuel, the "chip" part is how it's made or at least that is how it was explained to me. i can't swear to the fact the rb's in question where stock bottomed but i do know that they used metalluxed stock cranks. that is where they vibrate the metal to it's harmonic frequency and it "relaxes the moleculor bond" i.e relieves the natural stress from forging, and actually makes the metal denser. as far as the car is concerned it's paid for, cage and all. the guy i was talking about is a little more than just a computer geek<he's a structural engineer> and he's got alot more than just cad software, but you just said i don't need that heavy of a mod on the suspension to keep the car stable at speed so i probably won't go that route. i've found rb's for 2500 to 4500, the latter being the one i will go with, that is for engine turbos intercooler ecu harness and transmission/center differential setup. for another 200 they will throw in the rear drive shaft all garaunteed for 5000 miles lol. they don't mess with the rear diff and axle assembly so can you point me in the right direction? so that leaves 5500 to burn. i can get the engine in and running i'm sure although i've never worked on a turbo engine before all things being equal it shouldn't be hard to get it in and running. the engine is rated at 280 but i've heard 325 to 350 is more accurate, i also know the nismo 400r has 400hp and the only difference is a little programming and better intercooler. oh and anything i buy the navy ships for me for free, so the 1200+ frieght charges aren't a problem, i plan on buying the engine sometime in sept when i'm in japan. but if i like it i may just stay lol. i appreciate the help. keep it coming

donald


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## NissanTuner (Dec 1, 2002)

heres how you get the rb in:

1. put gloves on.

2. grab your plasma cutter.

3. cut the whole front end of your maxima off and extend it about a foot and a half in both directions.

4. weld it back on.

5. grab the vaseline, and stroke yourself off cause im ex military buddy and you dont get your whole bonus at once, and its taxed, and you still have to pass BMT, technical training and reach your first permanent duty station and wait there for i think it was 3 months before theyll even send you the first payment.

6. it will take your remaining 5.5k plus some to get that front wheel drive car working with the rearwheel drive engine, then once your bonus is gone, youre fucked, cause you nolonger make a salary high enough to do any of the work youre talking about here, however unforutnately youre commited to the military for the next 4 to 6 years of your life, and by the time youre out, your maxima wont be worth modding anymore, if its even running.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

allmotormax said:


> *chromoly steel tubing is used in pro stock all the way up to top fuel, the "chip" part is how it's made or at least that is how it was explained to me. i can't swear to the fact the rb's in question where stock bottomed but i do know that they used metalluxed stock cranks. that is where they vibrate the metal to it's harmonic frequency and it "relaxes the moleculor bond" i.e relieves the natural stress from forging, and actually makes the metal denser. as far as the car is concerned it's paid for, cage and all. the guy i was talking about is a little more than just a computer geek<he's a structural engineer> and he's got alot more than just cad software, but you just said i don't need that heavy of a mod on the suspension to keep the car stable at speed so i probably won't go that route. i've found rb's for 2500 to 4500, the latter being the one i will go with, that is for engine turbos intercooler ecu harness and transmission/center differential setup. for another 200 they will throw in the rear drive shaft all garaunteed for 5000 miles lol. they don't mess with the rear diff and axle assembly so can you point me in the right direction? so that leaves 5500 to burn. i can get the engine in and running i'm sure although i've never worked on a turbo engine before all things being equal it shouldn't be hard to get it in and running. the engine is rated at 280 but i've heard 325 to 350 is more accurate, i also know the nismo 400r has 400hp and the only difference is a little programming and better intercooler. oh and anything i buy the navy ships for me for free, so the 1200+ frieght charges aren't a problem, i plan on buying the engine sometime in sept when i'm in japan. but if i like it i may just stay lol. i appreciate the help. keep it coming
> 
> donald *


I am pretty sure there is no such thing as chip cro-mo turbing, there are many different alloys like 4130, etc, but cro-mo is not the best for a cage as it must be post weld heat treated to get its strength, hence most race cars are made of 1020 DOM or something close to that.

If you are converting to an entire GT-R drivetrain, you are going to have to cut out the firewall, in fact this is so hack upable, I suggest you just go to Motorex and and buy a real GTR. It will be a much better balanced car. If you sell the Maxima stock and use your bonus, you can get one and still have some left over.

Metalaxing doesnt make the metal denser or stronger, it just stress relives it so it's fatigue strength, not to be confused with tensile or yield strength gets better. It won't turn a stock crank into a billet one!

Let me tell you for the money you have, you are not going to be able to do even a fraction of what yoyu are dreaming of. Buy a R32 GT-R and do a few mods to it and be better off and happy. Don't ruin a perfectly good Maxima. Your dream is not acchevable on your budjet. Do your homework, you better bust out some books, talk to some good fabricators and engine builders, real reputable race places, not rice little speedshops. Do your homework and you will find out what I mean. I keep on urging you to do your homework.

Mike


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## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

A quirk blurb about motorcycle engines: they rev high because the are *small capacity* with small parts that can take the revs. Current 600 cc Supersports are making power up to 15k rpm. Open class bikes (one liter and large) are typically redlined at 11k rpm. Bigger pistons, bigger crank, bigger valves, all are heavier, can't make 'em stiff enough to run superfast without spending HUGE bucks to make them out of unobtainium.

F1 3-liter engines rev that high or higher, but you are dreaming if you think you have that kind of development budget.

"Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?"


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

I think this thread is going nowhere fast.


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