# Brakes?



## deadforever629 (Jan 16, 2004)

Hi I have a 2004 SE-R (not Spec V) and it has ABS. I noticed that when I press on the brake the car makes a grinding noise and the entire car slips. It seems as if though the car is going to skid out. Is that the ABS? I never had a car with ABS since my last car was a 1991 Nissan Stanza and that had power brakes. Should I take the car back to the dealer or is that just the ABS? Oh the road was sort of icy but I wasn't speeding and this only happened to me twice, today and one other day when it wasn't icy. Why is that?


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## Chuck (Nov 19, 2003)

abs is more of a thud thud thud thud thud thud thud sound..


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## KrAsH (Jan 29, 2004)

To make sure that it's your ABS that goes off, just find a wide street, go to about 30mph or something and slam on the brakes (trying to lock your wheels). That way, you'll hear and feel the ABS come on. That way, you'll know what sound it makes and you'll be able to compare.

Actually, when my ABS comes on, I hear a sort of pshhhht, followed by the thud thud thud... You can feel the "thuds" through the brake pedal as well...


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## Yamakasi (Jun 11, 2003)

deadforever629 said:


> Hi I have a 2004 SE-R (not Spec V) and it has ABS. I noticed that when I press on the brake the car makes a grinding noise and the entire car slips. It seems as if though the car is going to skid out. Is that the ABS? I never had a car with ABS since my last car was a 1991 Nissan Stanza and that had power brakes. Should I take the car back to the dealer or is that just the ABS? Oh the road was sort of icy but I wasn't speeding and this only happened to me twice, today and one other day when it wasn't icy. Why is that?


I felt the ABS a lot of times (long live winter). It doesn't make a grinding noise for me when I press the brakes (well I mean, not at all times). The pedal will kinda push back on your feet when the ABS kicks-in. It's not just noise.


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## KrAsH (Jan 29, 2004)

lol, tell me about it! It's even worse with SS brake lines. You really have to modulate the brakes or the ABS is part of the braking process at every every single block in winter.


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## KrAsH (Jan 29, 2004)

deadforever629 said:


> Hi I have a 2004 SE-R (not Spec V) and it has ABS. I noticed that when I press on the brake the car makes a grinding noise and the entire car slips. It seems as if though the car is going to skid out. Is that the ABS? I never had a car with ABS since my last car was a 1991 Nissan Stanza and that had power brakes. Should I take the car back to the dealer or is that just the ABS? Oh the road was sort of icy but I wasn't speeding and this only happened to me twice, today and one other day when it wasn't icy. Why is that?


I just thought of this this morning when I was driving to work. It is normal for you to hear a rubbing noise on the B15 the first 3-4 times you brake during winter. This is not due to the ABS, but to rust buildup on the rotors. It's the first car I've owned that does this, but I was told it's normal...


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## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

KrAsH said:


> I just thought of this this morning when I was driving to work. It is normal for you to hear a rubbing noise on the B15 the first 3-4 times you brake during winter. This is not due to the ABS, but to rust buildup on the rotors. It's the first car I've owned that does this, but I was told it's normal...


my brother's car does the same thing...i read in another thread that the dealership told the person with the same problem that it was moisture on the pads or something...that and there was soemthing else about it going away after 8 grand.

as far as the brake checking goes, anytime i've driven my bros car its a nice steady brake, no bumping or any noises.


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## deadforever629 (Jan 16, 2004)

*Stupid Acura's*



Chuck said:


> abs is more of a thud thud thud thud thud thud thud sound..


Thanx


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## deadforever629 (Jan 16, 2004)

*Acura Drivers Suck!!!!*



Chuck said:


> abs is more of a thud thud thud thud thud thud thud sound..



Yeah it happened to me today. I was about to exit onto the off ramp but I saw a fellow SE-R driver trying to merge onto the highway so i slowed down to let him in but there was a stupid ass SOB mofoing Acura 3.2 TL  or RL or some piece of crap crappy Honda model infront of him so he couldnt move. So the Acura decides to merge into my lane when im going at about 50 mph and im 30 ft away from him and hes at a complete stop. I stopped in time but i was about 10 inches away from his bumper. I got really pissed off but i was really happy that I had the ABS that time cause my SE-R would have been totaled under the conditions. I hate Acuras.


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## KrAsH (Jan 29, 2004)

deadforever629 said:


> Yeah it happened to me today. I was about to exit onto the off ramp but I saw a fellow SE-R driver trying to merge onto the highway so i slowed down to let him in but there was a stupid ass SOB mofoing Acura 3.2 TL  or RL or some piece of crap crappy Honda model infront of him so he couldnt move. So the Acura decides to merge into my lane when im going at about 50 mph and im 30 ft away from him and hes at a complete stop. I stopped in time but i was about 10 inches away from his bumper. I got really pissed off but i was really happy that I had the ABS that time cause my SE-R would have been totaled under the conditions. I hate Acuras.


Two words: threshhold braking. If you knew how to do it, you wouldn't need ABS for these types of situations.


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## FletchSpecV (Nov 26, 2002)

KrAsH said:


> Two words: threshhold braking. If you knew how to do it, you wouldn't need ABS for these types of situations.


Yeah, I absolutely hate ABS. In my opinion you have less control than you do without it. Besides, everyone always assumes that ABS is better, but if you pay close attention they never say that ABS is actually safer, just that it allows you to turn while the brakes are locked up. Just my 2 cents.


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## Yamakasi (Jun 11, 2003)

FletchSpecV said:


> Yeah, I absolutely hate ABS. In my opinion you have less control than you do without it. Besides, everyone always assumes that ABS is better, but if you pay close attention they never say that ABS is actually safer, just that it allows you to turn while the brakes are locked up. Just my 2 cents.


Well the thing is, ABS prevents you from locking-up the wheels, that why you can still turn and not just skid or slide. But by preventing the wheels from locking, you also break in a longer distance.

I had a few times where I slammed on the brakes and I know my car got closer to the car infront of me than if I hadn't had ABS cause you can feel the car's wheel still turning and not just sliding.

The only advantage is when the road is very slipery and there's no one around, it helps to get more traction and gain control of your car (imo).


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Yamakasi said:


> Well the thing is, ABS prevents you from locking-up the wheels, that why you can still turn and not just skid or slide. But by preventing the wheels from locking, you also break in a longer distance.
> 
> I had a few times where I slammed on the brakes and I know my car got closer to the car infront of me than if I hadn't had ABS cause you can feel the car's wheel still turning and not just sliding.
> 
> The only advantage is when the road is very slipery and there's no one around, it helps to get more traction and gain control of your car (imo).



Tires have more traction when they aren't sliding, so what you just said isn't true. If you can brake right on the edge of the tires' grip like KrAsH said, that's where you get the shortest stopping distance whether you have ABS or not, not with the tires locked up.


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## Yamakasi (Jun 11, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> Tires have more traction when they aren't sliding, so what you just said isn't true. If you can brake right on the edge of the tires' grip like KrAsH said, that's where you get the shortest stopping distance whether you have ABS or not, not with the tires locked up.


I didn't properly say what I meant to say. I know that tires have more traction when they are locked up (hence me saying the ABS will make you brake with a longer distance).

What I mean to say is that the ABS will help you keep control of your car by not locking the wheels. But by allowing your wheels to keep turning, if you turn the wheel in a direction your car tire will grip and pull the car towards that direction (that's why I mentionned traction). If your wheels are locked and you turn the wheel, but are sliding, you'll slow down, but you'll keep going on the same trajectory as you were because of the push of the car, because nothing is either pulling or pushing on the car to go in another direction.

Anyways, I think we both have the same idea  So it's all good.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

That's the thing, tires DON'T have more traction when they're locked up, so if you have a tendency to just slam on the brakes instead of practicing threshold braking, ABS will stop you quicker than just locking up the tires.


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## FletchSpecV (Nov 26, 2002)

sr20dem0n said:


> That's the thing, tires DON'T have more traction when they're locked up, so if you have a tendency to just slam on the brakes instead of practicing threshold braking, ABS will stop you quicker than just locking up the tires.


He's right.


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## deadforever629 (Jan 16, 2004)

*Threshold braking?*



KrAsH said:


> Two words: threshhold braking. If you knew how to do it, you wouldn't need ABS for these types of situations.



What is this thresh hold braking you speak of? Enlighten me jigga...


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

deadforever629 said:


> What is this thresh hold braking you speak of? Enlighten me jigga...



Braking right on the edge of traction. Where you're braking it's fine and you can steer and the wheels are still spinning and everything, but any harder and the tires will lock up.


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## Jsee (Jan 12, 2004)

*Speaking of brakes...*

I have a 2002 Spec and thought I would add to this discussion instead of posting a new thread. I do a ton of twisty road driving, especially driving to and from the coast. I will also admist that I am a little harder on my brakes than average. Anyhow, I have 21K on my car and I warped my two front rotors. I was going to replace these with originals, but the dealer wanted $90.00 for each rotor for original replacements. I do not want to spend a ton on new rotors, and shaving them just opens up more potential for future warping.

I have seen some brembo rotors for sale, basically these rotors were purchase and a machine shop cross-drilled and slotted them. Askin price for these new rotors is $150.00 for both... Can someone make some suggetions as to who make a durable rotor for the 2002 Spec V. I am still hunting around. I do not to any racing at all, but I have heard some bad things regarding cracks with cross-drilled rotors.

jsee


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

you can get normal brembo blanks for pretty cheap


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## Jsee (Jan 12, 2004)

*brake rotors*

":you can get normal brembo blanks for pretty cheap"

Sr20demon,

are you talking about basic brembos, not drilled or slotted, right? yeah, I think you can get them for a decent price. Are you just paying for the name, or are the brembos made of quality material?


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Right, just normal rotors like the stock ones. They're higher quality than stock and should be cheaper than stock, if I was going to upgrade it would be to Brembo blanks or slotted rotors.


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## caveman (Dec 20, 2003)

Just get blank brembo's and nicer pads. Also, use a torque wrench on the lugs. Unevenly torqued lugs and cause warped rotors. I've been sucessfull at not warping brakes for years now by using the torque wrench method. Once, I even got my brakes so hot on my old Talon, that I boiled the brake fluid and got the pads way too hot. The rotors did not warp that night.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

caveman said:


> Just get blank brembo's and nicer pads. Also, use a torque wrench on the lugs. Unevenly torqued lugs and cause warped rotors. I've been sucessfull at not warping brakes for years now by using the torque wrench method. Once, I even got my brakes so hot on my old Talon, that I boiled the brake fluid and got the pads way too hot. The rotors did not warp that night.



Another good thing you can do to help prevent rotors is only hold the brakes very very lightly (or not at all) after you stop. That way you don't have a constant force squeezing the hot rotors as they cool, which can warp them. One thing I've noticed is that cars with automatic trannies tend to warp rotors much faster than cars with manuals, the only reason I can come up with is when you stop in an auto car you have to hold the brakes to keep from moving. Over time it warps the rotors bad enough where you can feel it while braking.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> That's the thing, tires DON'T have more traction when they're locked up, so if you have a tendency to just slam on the brakes instead of practicing threshold braking, ABS will stop you quicker than just locking up the tires.


That's only true on sealed surfaces. On loose surfaces that well known "fact" gets tossed out the window. Unfortunately, snow can often be a loose surface (depending on the moisture, it can also be a sealed surface as well), so limit braking in snow (or making good use of ABS) will sometimes cause your stopping distances to extend to insane numbers. No, I'm not telling you that you should always lock your brakes when stopping. I'm just saying that there are exceptions to the rules of thumb we take for granted, and not knowing about those exceptions can end up being costly.

BTW: Rotors don't warp from heat.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

ReVerm said:


> That's only true on sealed surfaces. On loose surfaces that well known "fact" gets tossed out the window. Unfortunately, snow can often be a loose surface (depending on the moisture, it can also be a sealed surface as well), so limit braking in snow (or making good use of ABS) will sometimes cause your stopping distances to extend to insane numbers. No, I'm not telling you that you should always lock your brakes when stopping. I'm just saying that there are exceptions to the rules of thumb we take for granted, and not knowing about those exceptions can end up being costly.
> 
> BTW: Rotors don't warp from heat.



True, I was just talking about normal roads, not dirt/gravel/snowy roads

And that was a nice read, what I was talking about still applies, just for different reasons than I originally thought:
"Other than proper break in, as mentioned above, never leave your foot on the brake pedal after you have used the brakes hard. This is not usually a problem on public roads simply because, under normal conditions, the brakes have time to cool before you bring the car to a stop (unless, like me, you live at the bottom of a long steep hill). In any kind of racing, including autocross and "driving days" it is crucial. Regardless of friction material, clamping the pads to a hot stationary disc will result in material transfer and discernible "brake roughness". What is worse, the pad will leave the telltale imprint or outline on the disc and your sin will be visible to all and sundry."


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