# Messed up rotors



## 02platrex (Aug 20, 2004)

Has anyone else had rotor problems? I have an 01 SE and I've had to get them fixed twice already...


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## BLACKMAXIMA63 (Aug 20, 2004)

02platrex said:


> Has anyone else had rotor problems? I have an 01 SE and I've had to get them fixed twice already...



the calipers might need to be replaced


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## simon kenton (Dec 28, 2003)

My fiancee bought a 00 Infiniti I30, just a fancy Maxima.
This car had factory screwed up rotors. The brakes went out at 15,000 miles. The dealer said it was not warranty, it was caused by improper driving. I told her, bs, this is factory defective rotors, tell them to replace the rotors for free, or we will take them to magistrates court.
Fiancee did not want a confrontation, she paid the dealer $165 for brake job.
Since then, the brakes have gone out every 15,000 miles. We took them to a good independent mechanic and the guy said the same thing, caused by bad driving.
These guys are all wrong. Fiancee has always gotten 50-80,000 miles on a set of brakes. No way she is causing this problem. Nissan made some bad rotors.


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)




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## simon kenton (Dec 28, 2003)

The rotors are wearing out the pads, so every 15,000 miles she has to get new pads and get the rotors turned. The next time, we are just going to get new rotors.
The other car she drives is a Mercedes 300 diesel, those brakes now have 65,000 miles on them with no problems.
Why, kieran, is it incomprehensibile to you that Nissan would make a bad set of rotors?
You sound like you are of limited intelligence.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

simon kenton said:


> The rotors are wearing out the pads, so every 15,000 miles she has to get new pads and get the rotors turned. The next time, we are just going to get new rotors.
> The other car she drives is a Mercedes 300 diesel, those brakes now have 65,000 miles on them with no problems.
> Why, kieran, is it incomprehensibile to you that Nissan would make a bad set of rotors?
> You sound like you are of limited intelligence.


Other way around. The rotors aren't the problem. It's the pad compound you're running on. The compound is too soft for either the car or her driving, and it's causing lots of runout on the rotors. Take a look at the first article on this page for a more detailed explaination.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

the 2000-2001 Maxima/I30 rotors are a HUGE problem with warping on these cars.

back in 2000, Nissan dealers were doing warranty brake work on these cars within TWO WEEKS of purchase. The 02-03 models went to a slightly larger rotor, but the problem still didn't completely go away. in '04, the Maxima didn't gain much weight, but they went from a 2.25" piston in the front caliper and 11" rotors to a 2.5" piston and 12.6" rotors. HUGE upgrade in braking for the tiny weight difference between the 5th and 6th gens. Brakes on the 5th gens are obviously an issue, but Nissan dealers refuse to warranty them.

I have come up with a solution for the '00-01 models, which involves using the factory calipers and upgrading to the 2004 Max rotor, and using a bracket to relocate the caliper.
Info here: http://www.mattblehm.com/relocation_kit.html

In the last 9 months I've sold a couple dozen of these kits and not a single person has had warped rotor issues yet.


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)




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## simon kenton (Dec 28, 2003)

Don't let the door smack you on the butt on the way out.


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## Blank (Aug 21, 2003)

you might be slightly ignorant... way to kill the forum!

i know if i had an identical problem with 2 different sets of brakes, and 2 individual people told me the exact same thing, i would assume they are wrong  are you looking for a fight? cause everyone here is going to tell you tocheck her driving habits...


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

Hmmm.. if this many people are having these same problems, I would consider it a design flaw, not bad driving habits. Nissan has issued several TSBs on the brake warpage issues and even changed the design on future models- but typical big corp style, they refuse to admit there is a design flaw on current vehicles. They just change future models and play stupid to the people that are having problems now.

sure sound to me like it's her fault for driving the car.


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## Blank (Aug 21, 2003)

okay, that justifies nissans tech, but what about the independent shop??? or, how about you swap to a non nissan brand rotor and pads, then check it out...


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

You're not getting the point. THE ROTORS ARE TOO SMALL for this car. pad choices and rotor brands aside, these problems are inherent in this car if you're using all OEM stuff or using Brembo, raybestos, BPI, or cheapo rotors with porterfirled, axxis, raybestos, performance friction, wager, hawk, you-name-it pads.

substitute any name you want in there and there are still problems with it.


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## Coco (Apr 30, 2002)

Matt, do you think your kit will work for the 3rd gen Altimas? Lots of people have complained about their rotors, including me.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

Doesn't look like they will. a quick look at the service manuals for an '02 alty and '00 Maxima show different brake systems.

the '00 Max uses the CLZ25VC system.... a 280 x 26mm rotor with 57.2mm caliper piston and 125.6 x 45.3 x 11mm pad.

The '02 Alty uses CLZ25VD system. 296 x 26mm rotor, 57.2mm caliper, 125.6 × 46 × 11mm pad.

sooo, the calipers and rotors are different. unless you swapped to 2000 Maxima calipers and the '04 rotors and used my bracket, they won't fit..


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## Coco (Apr 30, 2002)

doh! there goes a good idea...thanks anyway!


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

Matt93SE said:


> pad choices and rotor brands aside, these problems are inherent in this car if you're using all OEM stuff or using Brembo, raybestos, BPI, or cheapo rotors with porterfirled, axxis, raybestos, performance friction, wager, hawk, you-name-it pads.
> 
> substitute any name you want in there and there are still problems with it.


One of my co-workers had that exact same problem with his I30. He went from the stock Nissan compound to Albany full metallics (inexpensive full metallic pads), and he stopped having runout/premature pad wear problems.

It's probably true the rotor is too small, but I think you're jumping the gun by claiming that the same problems would occur with every brand of brake pad.

PS: If you are having the same problems with Porterfield R4S's, it IS your driving style.


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## Scott (Apr 15, 2002)

simon kenton said:


> Don't let the door smack you on the butt on the way out.


Way to go... thanks for setting an example of what we _do not want_ this site to represent. If you're too immature to consider another opinion than perhaps you shouldn't have posted anything.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

ReVerm said:


> PS: If you are having the same problems with Porterfield R4S's, it IS your driving style.



Not necessarily. If you're warping rotors with those things, then it says more about the design of the brake system to me than improper driving. the R4S will allow the brake system to get much hotter before pad fade, but otherwise they are no different than most other brands of pads. If you drive hard enough on them to cause warpage from heat, then the rotors are too small for the car.

then again, a lot of warpage issues aren't warpage.. they're cememtite deposits caused by the rotors not getting hot enough. but that's not the case on the A33. I've pulled off many sets of rotors and checked the runout myself. they are truely warped.

I also know several local Maxima owners that were having brake problems and they never drive the car hard. long-time driving enthusiasts that know how to properly warm up and cool down brake systems, and they STILL have problems warping rotors every 10-20k miles on their Maximas.
Poor design is all I can say.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

Matt93SE said:


> then again, a lot of warpage issues aren't warpage.. they're cememtite deposits caused by the rotors not getting hot enough. but that's not the case on the A33. I've pulled off many sets of rotors and checked the runout myself. they are truely warped.


Just out of curiosity, how did you determine that the rotors were warped (warped as in truly warped, not just that they had a lot of runout)?


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

check lateral runout on the hub. mark spots of positive & negative runout. index rotor on hub. check again. marked spots agree, so it's not the hub/wheel bearing that's got runout..

do several thickness variation checks with handy micrometer at various places on rotor. all were close on variance, with one secton a small amount thinner than the others. driver probably kept the pedal smashed to the floor after a panic stop on hot rotors.. in either case, the rotors were warped laterally already, and the thickness variation was enough to cause them to be thrown away. you can turn a rotor if the thickness varies, but there's not a lot that can be done about lateral runout.. once it starts, it only gets worse over time.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

Matt93SE said:


> check lateral runout on the hub. mark spots of positive & negative runout. index rotor on hub. check again. marked spots agree, so it's not the hub/wheel bearing that's got runout..
> 
> do several thickness variation checks with handy micrometer at various places on rotor. all were close on variance, with one secton a small amount thinner than the others. driver probably kept the pedal smashed to the floor after a panic stop on hot rotors.. in either case, the rotors were warped laterally already, and the thickness variation was enough to cause them to be thrown away. you can turn a rotor if the thickness varies, but there's not a lot that can be done about lateral runout.. once it starts, it only gets worse over time.


But how did you determine that the metal rotor was actually warped and it wasn't just pad compound/cementite forming on the disk? The procedure you described there only checks and measures runout. It's insufficient as evidence to back your claims that it's "true warpage".


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

the variations in thickness and lateral runout are more than what would simply be pad deposits.. if they're that thick, you can also *usually* see the pad deposits and such since they generally turn a gunmetal blue and not a metallic silver. these rotors were all a constant color around the disc. for variations that much, I would expect to see rotor differences.

also, when put on the brake lathe, you could hear a *scrape* *scrape* *scrape* sound as it was going over the high spots, instead of a constant *scscscscsc* type of sound for one that was straight and you were removing material all the way around it.
So yeah, I'd say they were warped.

I've also seen my share of improperly seasoned rotors with pad deposits and cementite. I know the difference, and have 'fixed' many vibration problems by properly bedding the pads on the rotors and evening out the pad deposition. if that doesn't fix it, then you turn them to remove the deposits, scuff the surface of the pads, and reinstall. most of the time the cememtite issues are solved by that, but come back quickly.

So far on the 2004 rotor installs I've done, I haven't had a single one come back with vibration issues or uneven deposits that were common on the 2000 rotors.
So I'd say there's a design problem there. what exactly, I can't tell you- but it's there reguardless of the metallurgy of the rotors or driving habits of the owners.


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## 02platrex (Aug 20, 2004)

Matt93SE said:


> So I'd say there's a design problem there. what exactly, I can't tell you- but it's there reguardless of the metallurgy of the rotors or driving habits of the owners.



yeah, i'm pretty sure it's not my driving habits. my WRX has 30k+ miles on the brakes and they're still going strong. i'm way tougher on those than the maxima's.

anyway, thanks for the input. do you think the dealer would do an 04 swap under warranty?


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

simon kenton said:


> You sound like you are of limited intelligence.


So are you for being a rude ass. You just earned yourself a two day ban.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

02platrex said:


> yeah, i'm pretty sure it's not my driving habits. my WRX has 30k+ miles on the brakes and they're still going strong. i'm way tougher on those than the maxima's.
> 
> anyway, thanks for the input. do you think the dealer would do an 04 swap under warranty?



Definitely not.
the brackets to relocate the calipers are my design, then you bolt the '04 rotors onto the car using your factory calipers.
here's a few pictures of it.
http://mattblehm.com/HSS_images/brakes/5th_gen_relocation/


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

I know that older Q45s have been accused of having inadequate brakes. Most factory cars do , actually , for anything above mild spirited driving. WRXs do , DSMs always have , I'm not really surprised to hear about other cars having problems. About the only time you get decent brakes is if you get a car that costs over $30,000 and was designed to be driven somewhat hard. Porsches , Vipers , Supra's , 300Z TTs , Skylines , etc.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

kieranlavin said:


> Now I remember why I stopped frequenting Nissanforums.com. Immature name-calling which I will not be a part of. I'll stick to the more mature, knowledgeable lists/forums from now on


Don't let one person affect you or the site in general... he does not speak for the whole.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> So are you for being a rude ass. You just earned yourself a two day ban.


Come back with the same smack and it will be permenant


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## pathfound1 (Apr 8, 2004)

*shit..*



simon kenton said:


> My fiancee bought a 00 Infiniti I30, just a fancy Maxima.
> This car had factory screwed up rotors. The brakes went out at 15,000 miles. The dealer said it was not warranty, it was caused by improper driving. I told her, bs, this is factory defective rotors, tell them to replace the rotors for free, or we will take them to magistrates court.
> Fiancee did not want a confrontation, she paid the dealer $165 for brake job.
> Since then, the brakes have gone out every 15,000 miles. We took them to a good independent mechanic and the guy said the same thing, caused by bad driving.
> These guys are all wrong. Fiancee has always gotten 50-80,000 miles on a set of brakes. No way she is causing this problem. Nissan made some bad rotors.



did you try cutting the rotors? or getting them replaced?


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## pathfound1 (Apr 8, 2004)

*yea i did..*



02platrex said:


> Has anyone else had rotor problems? I have an 01 SE and I've had to get them fixed twice already...



whats up..when i purchased my car from the dealer the rotors were reallie bad also..everytime i hit the highway and broke around 40-60 the steering wheel and shit all started to tremble..so i went to my mechanic and he told me that the rotors weren't in good condition and told me that i can cut the rotors and change brake pads...which i did and now the car is perfect.


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## LatinMax (Feb 23, 2003)

I had the same problems with mine. Then I went to the 300zx mod and it made a HUGE difference. Glad I have them know that I am SC.
I have a write up on them on my website.


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## LatinMax (Feb 23, 2003)

Here is the link, about half way down the page.


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