# Head gasket changed - engine wont start



## tunder1 (Sep 28, 2004)

Hello to all members! I recently took on a large project that I may regret... my stepdaughter has a 92 Sentra SE that was purchased this past Spring. It overheated and blew the head gasket on Sept 12th. I got an estimate from a local garage here in CT, and the price was $900 for the head gasket repair and an additional $700 if the head required milling! We paid $1400 for the car, so basically it was a write off if I did not attempt the repair myself. My past experience was helping to rebuild a couple of Honda 4 cylinder motors, so I figure why not try the repair... well, to make a story shorter, I did complete the head gasket replacement this past weekend, and followed the instructions to the best that I could (crappy Haynes manual used) - to be honest, I found out more by reading various threads... anyway, everything is back together, but engine just turns over and will not start. I aligned both timing chains per specs, set the #1 piston at TDC (compression stroke), replaced the distributor and rotor, plugged all connections as before - all were marked with tape... I checked the plugs - there is spark, the cylinders are getting fuel, but no start!! engine turns over well, but I am thinking that it may be IC, or other related electrical... any suggestions??! just a note.. it was running very rough prior to the engine being dismantled... maybe running on 3 cylinders? Thanks for any help!!


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## BikerFry (Jul 31, 2003)

Time for a compression check?


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## EhSteve (Mar 16, 2004)

How long did you spend trying to get it to start?

Just this last weekend I finished rebuilding a ga16, and it took quite a few turns of the key to get it to actually catch and stay running.

It ran really rough at the beginning, at least until I fixed the ignition timing - now it starts right up like it always used to. I do have what appears to be exhaust coming out of the radiator though, which is quite perplexing and a bit disheartening at the same time.

Did you take a good look at the valves while the head was off, and make sure they weren't burned or chipped?

Did you check the cyclinder head to make sure it wasn't warped?

Hope you get things up and running again!


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## tunder1 (Sep 28, 2004)

thanks Steve... I did check the head and it is not warped... the valves all looked good, and I did clean the engine the best that I could... I kinda believe that it is still a timing problem or something is shorting... just a couple of questions - IC resistance is indicated as being around 13... I believe that I got a 10 reading... would that have an effect?, and would the timing adjustment at the distributor being off a few degrees have a really bad effect? the rotor was positioned as close as I could see to #1 wire at TDC... any comments from others? Thanks!


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## tunder1 (Sep 28, 2004)

Time for a compression check?

I would like to complete a compression check on all the cylinders, but the recommendation is that it is done after the motor is at operating temperature - do you know if it would still give an accurate reading on a cold engine?

I am going to play around with the timing again tonite and will keep the board updated...


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## Twiz (Aug 24, 2004)

Did you find any of the four cylinders filled with coolant? Look at the old head gasket and see where it is shot to determine what went wrong next. Did you change the oil or the milkshake in your engine and check condition of old spark plugs? Check the coolant condition also and distributor (timing) you moved something you weren't supposed to. You can do it!! Good Luck !


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## tunder1 (Sep 28, 2004)

Thanks for the support Twiz... the leak originated at the front of the block - in front of cylinder 4 - the coolant did originally leak into 4 and that caused all the white smoke. The gasket was in bad shape overall, and my thinking is that since it was the original gasket, 12 years old, and 132 K, it was possibly due for problems...

anyway, I am still at square one, I tried adjusting the timing again tonite and could only get a slight firing of the cylinders... there is no doubt that something was moved and it is taking forever to correct it...

I am hoping for a better day tomorrow!


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## Twiz (Aug 24, 2004)

I love staring at my engine for hours... I'll have a look into it trying to simulate a head gasket swap.


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

Last winter I flooded the engine. Just could not get it started. The extra gas in the cylinders washed the oil off the cylinder walls. Towed it to my mechanic. He thought it did not have compression. He squirted oil in each cylinder, installed plugs, and it started (and smoked alot). I had even replaced the coil with no success. Lesson I learned, even if you have spark and gas, oil on cylinder walls is needed for compression.


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

Hope this helps you check your timing.

GA16DE Distributor Installation

-Put Timing Mark At #1 TDC (see attached picture)

-Turn the engine over until #1 cylinder (R.H.) is at TDC compression stroke.

Rotor Position At #1 TDC (see attached picture).

-Install the distributor, making sure the rotor is aligned as shown when fully seated (see attached picture).

-Install the distributor securing bolts and tighten slightly. 

- Connect the crank angle sensor terminal. 

-Install the distributor cap and tighten the screws. 

-Refer to ADJUSTMENT PROCEDURES and adjust the timing.


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

If you can get it started, here is the final timing adjustment procedure:

1. Start the engine and warm it up until the water temperature indicator points to the middle of the gauge. 
2. Operate the engine at 2000 rpm for 2 minutes under no load. 
3. Disconnect the throttle sensor connector. 
4. Idle engine and check timing. Timing should be 10°±2°BTDC. If not proceed to step 5. 
5. Idle engine and adjust the ignition timing to 10°±2°BTDC by turning the distributor after loosening the securing bolt. 
6. Turn the engine off. 
7. Reconnect the throttle sensor connector.


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## dave_f (Dec 11, 2002)

is the engine throwing any codes? I would run the self diagnostic check on the ECU. It would be any easy way to determine if a sensor is faulty
-dave


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## tunder1 (Sep 28, 2004)

Thanks for all the information so far... I just noticed something unusual tonite.. and it still doesn't start... but I knew that it was possibly flooded from the past couple of days of trying to start, so in an effort to get the gas out of the cylinders, I removed the plugs and checked the top of the pistons to see how bad the flooding was... and to my surprise, #1 has a few drops of gas on it, #2 and #3 are completely dry, and #4 has about 1/4 inch of gas on it!!! Now, I am thinking that there is a problem with the injectors, and this is where I need some advice.. can they just be cleaned or do they have to be replaced, and do you think that it is possible for only one cylinder to get the fuel?? maybe when there was overheating, the injectors got "fried"... any comments on this possibility? and how much trouble is it to change them?


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

What you described with gas on the cylinders tops is what I saw, except no 1# (the one to the far left facing the engine) seemed to have more gas on top then the rest, but some where almost dry. Can't remember which ones or the amount. I talked to my mechanic, since he replaced injector on cylinder #1 six months previously. He said you would see more gas on some cylinders based on where they stopped in the cranking cycle, or something like that. However, I thought the new injector was putting more gas in cylinder #1. If you saw gas like I did, I bet the cylinders walls have the oil washed off depending on how much you have cranked the engine. I noticed gas in my oil due to all the cranking and flooding, maybe you have not done as much cranking. I don't think the overheating would fry an injector, but I am not a mechanic. I think I had more of a problem with fuel injector cleaner that either damaged the injector or caused it to become clogged. If your car was running smooth on all cylinders before the head job, I would think the injectors would be OK. Currently, I am using a product called Fuel Power. It is a little different then a fuel system/injector cleaner. I am having no ill effects, the engine idles smooth, and is the way I have chosen to keep the injectors and combustion chamber clean. My mechanic changed my injector, but it does not look easy. Not much area to remove them, plus what he charged for the part was cheaper than what I could purchase myself. That is why I am using Fuel Power. Preventative maintenance. If I loose another injector, I will probably have my mechanic replace it.


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

The reason I posted instructions on timing/distributor alignment was to make sure they were in the ball park. I had a Mazda truck. That darn cap rotor could go on 3 different ways! Never heard of that before. My luck was, when I changed it, I did not get it right until the 3rd time. So, if your timing is way off, nothing is going to happen. If it was off and you adjusted it to specs, but the gas in the cylinders washed off the oil, then no compression. It seems the things that worked before taking the head off should be OK for now, as long as everything was put back together properly. Before putting the plugs back in, you may want to put a little oil in the plug holes to make sure you get good compression. This is my best effort based on limited experience. Hope it helps!


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## tunder1 (Sep 28, 2004)

Thanks again for all the advice... I am calling a couple of shops today to see if they do the external fuel injector cleaning (it is supposed to be better than when the cleaning is done on the car), plus the engine has to be running to perform the on engine cleaning (the cleaning solvent is actually run through the pistons with the fuel line disconnected...). So I am going to see where the services are available locally (Waterbury to Bridgeport area of CT). I also will try to get a manual code reading tonite... and I will also try the oil in the cylinder!


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## tunder1 (Sep 28, 2004)

Update... I did add some oil to the cylinders today, still no start... but I may have finally found a problem, I took all the plugs out and checked for spark again, and to my surprise, there is no spark on 2 or 4... I switched plug 3 (there was spark on this one) to 4 and still nothing! So, I am on my way out to pick up new wires and plugs! The best thing that I noted today is that there is somehow gas on all the plugs now - I wasn't getting this during the past couple of days?? all that I got was the #4 flooded... but now the injectors seem to be all working (keeping my fingers crossed!) It will still be extra work to change the oil again due to the flooding, but I am hoping to have the motor running tonite! that's if the timing can finally be adjusted too... Thanks for all the support... I will keep the board updated...


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

I will cross my fingers and send positive thoughts! Spark, fuel, and compression. Get them all squared away and hopefully all will be well.


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## tunder1 (Sep 28, 2004)

okay, I am at my wit's end!! bought the new plugs and wires... installed them, reset the TDC and distributor, and 2 of the plugs are still not sparking?? my theory is if one is sparking and the rotor is spinning past the other contacts, should they not all spark? or is there another sensor that is telling the ECU not to spark at different intervals based on some reading? I did switch the plug wires around and they would work on the other cylinders - at least the spark plug would work... do you think that it is possible to have a bad new distributor cap? tomorrow, I am going to attach the old cap and see it there is any difference... again, thanks to everyone for the information...


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

Never had a problem with cap or rotor. Did have bad plug wires, replaced years ago. Also, I have not always put things back together properly. Removed and installed 3 heads in my life. There is a lot of details to attend to. It seems if your motor ran before rebuild/head removal, then it would run after being installed. Your problem has me stumped. Will just keep those positive thoughts coming your way. Peace!


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## Twiz (Aug 24, 2004)

The cap is good if it's not cracked or the four terminals are not worn out badly. There's a sensor that tells the ECU the angle of the signal I believe it's called crank angle sensor but this thing is built into the distributor, I'd try to take off the distributor and reattach it again. Try to take it off and line it up so the signal sensor reads right. Also reset your ECU.


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## Bonesmugglar (Jan 14, 2004)

might need a new distributor


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## tunder1 (Sep 28, 2004)

Catman and Twiz: thanks for all the support and information. Here is the latest update - good news and bad news (mostly good tho!). I did not have a chance to work on the Sentra on Saturday, but I did pick up the new wires and plugs. On Sunday morning, I was trying to start it again (I have to car outside so the weather was a limiting time factor a few days!) but my neighbor heard the starter and walked over. Now, this is a neighbor that I only know in passing, and I dont have regular conversations, but he brought over his compression tester (which was too short to reach the cylinders), and he thought that I was trying to start my lawn tractor! LOL! Anyway, he told he that he used to own and operate a car repair shop here in CT - great news to me!! We removed the valve cover and he checked the postioning of the camshafts through the firing process, and lo and behold, the distributor was at 180 degrees off! Then he also noticed that the collar that engages the distributor to the camshaft was half broken (just barely holding on). so, I did not even try to turn the engine over again until I replaced that part. I called Nissan today (I was sitting in my chair) and the Parts person knew which part it was but said that you cant buy just the part anymore, but the whole distributor for a sale price of $463 !!!!!!!!!. I told him that I would get back to him (in a thousand years). Aftermarkets are $230... Anyway, I got lucky at a junkyard today... a used one from a 92 Sentra for $50 !!. So, I am hoping to put it together tonite! I cant wait to hear that sweet sound again...


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

Hope nothing was damaged with the timing that far off. I am dyslexic, so when I removed the head of my Mazda truck I was 180 degrees off. Just had to compensate when I put it back together. Plus the head rebuilder stressed getting the pistons lined up correctly since it was an interference engine. Meaning, pistons crash into valves when timing is off. Think the Sentra is also an interference engine. I pray you did not bend any valves! Will keep sending those positive thoughts!


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## tunder1 (Sep 28, 2004)

Thanks Catman... here's the update - changed the distributor and applied the new cap and rotor, put the valve cover back on and turned the key... started up right away! The engine smoked a bit and the exhaust smoked for a few minutes, I am thinking due to the oil on the cylinders, plus any coolant or oil that was left over from the initial head gasket malfunction. Timing will have to be set again (the neighbor said to bring it over to his garage and he will set it), but I am also going to change the oil again tonite due to the gas that leaked into the pan when the engine was flooding. There are a couple of other items to fix before it hits the road in the next few days, but I am hoping that everything else is a lot easier than this project! Plus, I will still need to watch for any oil/coolant leaks over the next few days... Thanks again to all the contributors for your support and brainstorming!


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## Catman (May 21, 2004)

That is fantastic! Somehow, I was thinking the timing was way off. Hope you didn't smoke out the neighbors! I know my Mazda smoked a lot initially even without adding oil into the cylinders. Maybe this has been a blessing in disguise? Sounds like you found a nice neighbor to help you get your car back in shape. Happy motoring!


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## tunder1 (Sep 28, 2004)

Another update: I finally got a chance to take the car over to the neighbor's. It is now running, but very rough. After reading various articles at different web sites, including this one, there were several different reasons offerred for the rough idling. One of them was for the oxygen sensor, which I still think may not be operating correctly - many mechanics mention that this sensor, if not operating properly, will cause rough idling. Peter and I did a compression check which indicated that cylinders 1 to 3 still had excellent compression (over 190 psi), but cylinder 4 was around 170 - still good for the age of the car.) Well, we checked the wires again, checked for spark, and then Peter decided to lift each plug wire while the car was running and found that this test did nothing when we lifted the wire off cylinder 2. The engine wanted to stall when we lifted the other wires, but made no change on number 2. Our best guess is that the injector is clogged or not working at all. I called Auto Zone and they have a replacement for around $75.00 which I am picking up today (Friday). I am keeping my fingers crossed again that this will solve another problem. Funny thing is, the car actually starts and runs on 3 cylinders!! If this helps with the timing, I may give in and take it to a shop for the final adjustments. I will keep the board updated.


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