# 2013 Altima 2.5 won't start hot/after driving for a while



## sunnyorlando (Oct 20, 2019)

I have a 2.5 L Altima with a 102~k driving that it recently began to not want to start after you've driven it for a while. You can drive it long times and not stop and it will run. But if you stop, it will not start again. It will crank but will not start. When this happens, the quick solution is to wait until it cools down, about 1 hr, and then it will start again.
So... I took it a Nissan dealer for a diagnosis, and $350 later they diagnosed the fuel injectors, they were sure that was the issue. In their diagnosis, they did test fuel pressure, fuel pump, and other electrical possible components of which all tested okay. So, ordered new ones and I replaced the injectors. Although I was hesitant to do that because it didn't seem like injectors would cause it to not start at all, I followed their lead and obviously - it did not solve the problem.
Then, following another recommendation/suggestion I replaced both cam positioning sensors at the top of the head/valve cover on the R side. This also did not solve the problem.
I have looked for these 2013 Nissan postings about problems similar to this, but for some reason these 2013 2.5 L Nissan's don't have a lot of posts.
I don't mind working on this, however this problem is one of those that does not identical posts. there are a lot of them where the post say that it won't crank, it won't start at all although it cranks, and so on. But this one specifically that is apparently temperature related is not very common.

So here I am, hoping that in one of these forums somebody will have also experienced this and solved this particular problem. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, and taking into consideration the parts that have been replaced so far, and the Nissan diagnosis (for what it's worth) I'm hoping that there may be another known component that maybe the culprit.

Thanks!


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## sunnyorlando (Oct 20, 2019)

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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

Have you replaced the crank position sensor? That's what usually fails when it's a crank/no start when hot situation. Also, avoid aftermarket sensors; it's best to stick with genuine Nissan or Hitachi sensors, although I have had good luck with Standard Motor Parts/Intermotor. It's a pain to get to, being on the back side of the engine block, near the trans.


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## sunnyorlando (Oct 20, 2019)

No, I have not..of all the references I've seen for this engine, that one has not been one I've seen mentioned. The diagrams I've seen all apear to refer to another older 2.5 with single cam and one cam sensors on the side. This one has 2 on the top. This engine is the QR25DE with apparently double overhead cams, that's why two cam sensors in top. I really cannot find much on this *QR25DE* engine which is odd. The diagrams I've found show the older single cam.
I can work on the crank sensor, but I have not seen that anywhere, so I'd like a diagram of this engine. Would you know where to find one?
Thanks


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## franb01 (Jun 29, 2018)

sunnyorlando said:


> I have a 2.5 L Altima with a 102~k driving that it recently began to not want to start after you've driven it for a while. You can drive it long times and not stop and it will run. But if you stop, it will not start again. It will crank but will not start. When this happens, the quick solution is to wait until it cools down, about 1 hr, and then it will start again.
> So... I took it a Nissan dealer for a diagnosis, and $350 later they diagnosed the fuel injectors, they were sure that was the issue. In their diagnosis, they did test fuel pressure, fuel pump, and other electrical possible components of which all tested okay. So, ordered new ones and I replaced the injectors. Although I was hesitant to do that because it didn't seem like injectors would cause it to not start at all, I followed their lead and obviously - it did not solve the problem.
> Then, following another recommendation/suggestion I replaced both cam positioning sensors at the top of the head/valve cover on the R side. This also did not solve the problem.
> I have looked for these 2013 Nissan postings about problems similar to this, but for some reason these 2013 2.5 L Nissan's don't have a lot of posts.
> ...


I also own a 2013 Nissan Altima. Already had problems with the shifter staying in park but worked with Nissan to split the cost of repair; my part was a little over $300. Not a happy camper since the problem started with less than 20,000 miles. The 2013 is a lemon according to many folks and all the letters I receive from attorneys. 

Anyway, back to your problem. My Honda Accord had a similar problem and the shop cleaned injectors, etc at around $400+ and the problem persisted. I googled the problem and finally came up with an answer. The master relay. Apparently the bi-metal strip overheated and would not make contact until the metal cooled down a bit. I wish I had my old repair receipts and my search results (I sold the car and trashed the paperwork).

I just did another search for a Honda and came up with this :

"Basically, if my car got really hot in the inside or I had been driving for a long while it simply wouldn't start.

The main relay is located on the far left of the car above the brake and gas pedals and behind the air conditioning (box of electrical components) which needs to be removed before you can see the main relay. it's a gray rectangle with a plug iirc. Cost me about 50 bucks to replace. I can't remember the exact symptoms for this one. I think it was that the starter just kept spinning, but the car wouldn't start. (IIRC the main relay controlled among other things the fuel pumps -- and no fuel getting to the engine = no start). "

I think it may be the same problem. Metal fatigue. That was the same issue with the stuck park issue. A crappy switch but the repair was for the entire harness which substantially brought up the cost.. Good luck and I hope this helps.


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## sunnyorlando (Oct 20, 2019)

Well thanks. I can look into that. The interesting part about this issue and this particular engine and car, is that there's not a lot out there, plus the issue of not finding the right engine diagrams for this particular engine, and I'm also not getting very many responses, you think that some mechanic or other tech person familiar with this car would have come across this and be chiming in here. There are so many of these cars on the road that there has to be another one with the same issue out there - I would think...


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## sunnyorlando (Oct 20, 2019)

Sup del


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## franb01 (Jun 29, 2018)

sunnyorlando said:


> Well thanks. I can look I to that. The interesting part about this issue and this particular engine and car, is that there's not a lot out there. And I'm also not getting very many responses oh, you think that some mechanic or other tech person familiar with this car would have come across this and be chiming in here. there are so many of these cars on the road, and that there has to be another one with the same issue out there I would think...


Google the issue and check other sites. That's how I finally figured out what the problem was with my Honda. I just wonder if the repair shop knew what the real problem was and just suggested other more costly repairs knowing we will be back. I only have 30,000 miles on my 2013 Altima and after reading your post, it seems I might have another issue down the line. I'm hoping this will be my last car and self-driving "uber" type services will prevail in the future. I'm done paying so much for a new car, maintenance, insurance, etc.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

There are sites such as partsouq that let you consult part diagrams. Looking at one with the same version of the 2.5 as yours shows it has one crankshaft sensor in back and one camshaft sensor on top




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nissan4u.com





I would have thought a bad one would give you a check engine code but apparently not all the time. 
Of course, it could be other things as well. Good luck


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## sunnyorlando (Oct 20, 2019)

Update to the crankshaft sensor replacement.
First I want to say that while the videos that I have found suggested to do the crankshaft sensor replacement from the top, at least the ones that I found, that's not the b at or only way. I was able to do it from underneath and the back within 15 minutes, it was by far much easier than trying to do it from the top.
That said, the crankshaft sensor did NOT resolve the "no start hot" problem. I have now tested the car several times and trying to replicate the issue with driving let it get hot then stopping and starting, stopping and starting right away - that works. However, stopping and trying to start after waiting for a few minutes is still a problem.
The exact behavior is that you hit the start button, and it tries to start, it cranks, but it does not start. it attempts to start and it feels for a moment like it's going to, but it does not start. Now I have to wait for a while, a cool down before it starts again
Now what next....
An additional note - while test-driving I was able to replicate another issue that my daughter has mentioned to me, and I don't know if these two are related. The problem is as you accelerate and engine hits about 4,000 RPMs, sometimes a little bit closer to five thousand, it starts to hesitate like it skips, maybe not firing or maybe not getting enough fuel. But the fuel injectors have been replaced already, and now we've also replaced the two upper cam sensors and the crankshaft sensor. This only happens under load, it does not happen when revving up freely.
is it possible that these two are related, and if so then what am I looking at for this hesitation at high RPMs?


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

When Nissan started using the QR25DE engine for the Altima back in 2002, they used the IVT system for the intake camshaft with the CMP sensor reading the signal plate on the intake camshaft. Starting in 2013, they added the EVT system for the exhaust camshaft with the second EVT sensor reading the signal plate on the exhaust camshaft. That's why there are three sensors; CMP, EVT, and CKP. If you plan to replace sensors, It's best to replace all three with Nissan OEM sensors, not most aftermarket types. Many aftermarket sensors don't last long, may cause driveability problems, and are often DOA.

When your engine fails to start, the first thing to do without trying to start it up, is perform an ECU code readout with a portable scan tool to see if any fault codes are set. The tool can be purchased at most auto parts stores. Post the actual codes here on the forum so that we may be able to help you further. If there is one or more fault codes set, they can help point to the malfunction. If you have a copy of the FSM for your vehicle, the code readout procedure is described there along with a listing of codes. You can download a copy of the FSM from this web site: https://ownersmanuals2.com/. The section EC.PDF is the one you need to read.

At this point you'll have to determine if there's an ignition or fuel delivery problem:

* Testing fuel delivery:
An easy way to test the fuel pump and filter is to disconnect the fuel feed hose from the fuel rail and connect it to a long length of spare hose with the other end draped over the fender going into a catch can placed on the ground. Now turn the ignition key to the run position but DO NOT TRY TO START THE ENGINE. You should see fuel going into the can at a good rate for several seconds. 

Tee-in a temporary fuel pressure gauge between the fuel feed hose and the fuel rail. If the engine is unable to start, turn the ignition key to the run position but DO NOT TRY TO START THE ENGINE. The fuel pressure reading should be around 51 psi which would be a static reading.

The fuel injectors may not be firing. This can be tested with a "noid" light probe for each injector harness connector.

* Testing ignition:
Pull several coil packs to test; use a spare spark plug in the coil pack to test; ground the plug base with a jumper wire to the engine block; see if you're getting a spark while trying to start the engine. 

* The cam timing may be incorrect:
Check for a broken chain guide. See if it's broken or it may be cracked and has skipped some teeth.


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## sunnyorlando (Oct 20, 2019)

Thank you, this is an excellent breakdown.
First - in case you didn't catch it, I've already replaced the exhaust, intake cam and crank sensors, and the 4 fuel injectors. Even though we used aftermarket, they were not the cheapest ones - but even if they don't last I'm thinking that I could at least correct the issue short term. I'd hate to buy all expensive Nissan branded and be in the same spot. That said, and the fact that the issue has not changed at all, I'm leaning towards something else like ignition and fuel delivery issues. However, the initial Nissan dealer who was sure it was the fuel injectors also tested fuel pump and line pressure, and said all checked within specs. Yet he was wrong about the injectors, so he could also be wrong about the pump working correctly. Would a pump that looses performance when it warms up affect the injectors in a way that they could be misdignosed even by an experienced tech? What I'm thinking he may have missed is the hot test. This issue only happens hot.

Are fuel pumps know to change performance after using for a while v cold?
Wouldn't a broken chain guide or skipped tooth affect everything all the time, not just hot?

I'll check the ignition components. I'll have to run it and get it to the point where it does not start. I'll also pull the codes at that same point.
BTW - I have video of the two issues, but not sure how to share them here.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

At the point where it won't start, check the STATIC fuel pressure like I outlined in my post. Also verify that you've got ignition spark. Inspect all the engine harness ground point connections for tightness and make sure there no oxidation there. If ignition is OK and static fuel pressure is OK, then most likely there is no signal pulse to the injectors. Use a "NOID" light kit to test each injector. Also make sure the other wire on a given injector harness has a constant 12 volts.

You can share the videos here by posting the URL.


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## sunnyorlando (Oct 20, 2019)

Thanks, I'm pretty sure I'll have at least some spark because when it tries to start, sometimes it will try like maybe one or twice like it's cranking up, and then die out. And this will be the cycle it'll to do this several times until the ignition times out, then I have to press the button again.
I tried pressing the gas pedal during this cycle, but it doesn't appear to do anyting.


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