# Pathfinder refuses to start when its cold v6 Le



## rockUrRoll (Jan 6, 2016)

2010 pathfinder that turns over a lot before starting but only when its cold. Just started doing that this year. The colder it is the longer it takes to finally start.start. I've been told bad maf sensor,distributor cap,dirty injectors could be causing the problems. But why do I only have problems when its cold. I will say that I didn't start noticing this issue until I put a used interstate battery in the car. I don't know if that's a coincidence or what but it turns over normally just takes forever to crank. And today it wouldnt crank at all so.... Any thoughts? And the engine light is not on.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

When the engine is cold, spin the engine and see if you're getting a strong spark at the plugs. If not, the battery may have some weak cells, so at this point the interstate battery would be the prime suspect.


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## kukla (Apr 1, 2010)

rockUrRoll said:


> 2010 pathfinder that turns over a lot before starting but only when its cold. Just started doing that this year. The colder it is the longer it takes to finally start.start. I've been told bad maf sensor,distributor cap,dirty injectors could be causing the problems. But why do I only have problems when its cold. I will say that I didn't start noticing this issue until I put a used interstate battery in the car. I don't know if that's a coincidence or what but it turns over normally just takes forever to crank. And today it wouldnt crank at all so.... Any thoughts? And the engine light is not on.


again & again
most people over-think these symptoms
cold batteries are at a disadvantage, especially since they have not had the benefit of recharging while parked
cold engines are harder to start because it is harder for the starter to spin them due to oil being thicker when cold
unless the battery condition, battery post condition, cable clamp condition & tightness on posts (watch that negative cable clamp, may still be loose on post even with pinch nut is tight) are all good, it will be hard to start
any problem described here will cause the ignition system to lack the power that it needs for sufficient spark at the plugs to fire up the engine

1) charge & load test battery, replace if necessary
2) clean cable end clamps, replace if necessary
3) start engine & check charging system output
let us know if this works - it nearly ALWAYS does


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## pissed owner (Jan 17, 2016)

Ok. Same problem. At 40 degrees it WILL NOT start. 50 degrees it starts EVERY time without fail. in between those 40 and 50 degrees maybe starts, maybe doesn't. This is a 2007 Pathfinder. It has brand new terminals (old ones corroded beyond belief because some idiot put copper terminals on it) and because of the older bad terminals, I put a brand new battery in it last year. All work done by a nissan dealership service dept. ( who could admittedly be just as stupid as a non nissan service dept so....there's always that).

3 weeks ago during a cold snap, I blew a relay. I could HEAR the difference in the cranking as soon as it blew, but at the time didn't know what exactly had changed, just that something had changed. Towed to repairshop and found out it was a relay that was repaired. Now we have a new cold snap and I'm back to where I was, I just try less often and for shorter periods of time to get the thing started.

Anything else it could be, besides battery/starter issues(as these have all be checked and determined not to be the problem)??


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## kukla (Apr 1, 2010)

pissed owner said:


> Ok. Same problem. At 40 degrees it WILL NOT start. 50 degrees it starts EVERY time without fail. in between those 40 and 50 degrees maybe starts, maybe doesn't. This is a 2007 Pathfinder. It has brand new terminals (old ones corroded beyond belief because some idiot put copper terminals on it) and because of the older bad terminals, I put a brand new battery in it last year. All work done by a nissan dealership service dept. ( who could admittedly be just as stupid as a non nissan service dept so....there's always that).
> 
> 3 weeks ago during a cold snap, I blew a relay. I could HEAR the difference in the cranking as soon as it blew, but at the time didn't know what exactly had changed, just that something had changed. Towed to repairshop and found out it was a relay that was repaired. Now we have a new cold snap and I'm back to where I was, I just try less often and for shorter periods of time to get the thing started.
> 
> Anything else it could be, besides battery/starter issues(as these have all be checked and determined not to be the problem)??


what was the result of the battery load test, and did you test it both before & after charging it?
does the engine re-start OK after being driven, after a difficult cold start?
is the charging system output normal?


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## pissed owner (Jan 17, 2016)

Haven't done a load test on the battery because it's brand new and has never been run down enough to require recharging with a battery charger. (at some point, the weather usually warms up and then the car fires up normal as can be)

As for re-starting.....that's never an issue, until I let it go too far between starts in cold weather. i.e. IF I get it started, I can re-start it as many times as I feel the need to do so, as long as I do not let the engine cool off back to air temp for 2 long. And it always fires up immediately, cleanly, and easily. However, once I've waiting until it's back to basically air temp, it's back to endless cranking with no fire up until the temp goes up or I get EXTREMELY lucky.

This issue was NEVER an issue at any temperature until October/november 2014 when I had to put it in the shop for what turned out to be an issue with some sensor in the ignition that tells the ECM that you're using the correct key, which it took Victory Nissan in Victoria, Texas almost 6 weeks to diagnose ( I kid you not). In the coarse of all this diagnosis, it was let's try this and let's try that....and that's how I come to have new battery cable terminals, a new battery, and finally, a new sensor whatever the hell it is in the ignition. This, after I told the idiots that the problem was SOMETHING to do with the ignition and the security features INVOLVING the ignition sequence. Because the problem At THAT TIME was sometimes it started and sometimes not, but if you did the key reset sequence a few times after it not starting, it would sometimes miraculously begin working again. Which seems fairly consistent with a part that is going bad but not quite failed altogether. 6 weeks of them goofing around with every possible thing EXCEPT the ignition system directly kinda left me with the feeling that they ain't very good at what they are supposed to be doing, eh?

So.....5.5 weeks in, they have finally nailed down the problem, replaced the part, and the damn thing starts. And then, on the morning I was to come pay and drive away, they call to tell me that when they tried to start it in the AM, it won't start, no reason why that they can find. (it had been 35-ish that morning, I didn't know it at the time, but my new "Next problem" had arrived)

2 days later, I get the call, it needs a new fuel injection assembly, another $400 some dollars, yea! They go ahead with that repair and I come pick the POS up, it works fine for the remainder of the time that I'm in Victoria(finishing up a job, btw), because the temp is above 40 degrees for the next week or so. However, once I'm back home in Indiana, the temp is well below zero for a few weeks and I'm once again out a vehicle. I was off for a few weeks so it wasn't a big deal, I just let it sit. Weather warmed up and things were back to normal operation. It stayed warmer, I had no issues the rest of winter and it started everytime, all the time all through summer and fall. Then came the below 40 degree weather and it's back to not starting.

So, I'm left with a temperature dependent vehicle in an area where it frequently falls below 40 degrees for long stretches every year. I Suppose it *could* be the battery, but gut feeling tells me it's something to do with fuel/air mix. That, of course, has yet to be actually proven, but *other* than the battery being too small for the job at hand, I'm not sure what the hell else, physically speaking, could be directly related to the air temperature the vehicle is in. Last time it was in the shop, a few weeks ago with the relay deal, they tested the fuel pump and it is supposedly working fine.

That's it, sorry the response was so long. And thank you for your reply too, btw.


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## pissed owner (Jan 17, 2016)

P.s. Forgot to mention the that battery was supposedly checked at the shop a few weeks ago, i meant that I'd not personally checked this myself.


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## kukla (Apr 1, 2010)

pissed owner said:


> Haven't done a load test on the battery because it's brand new and has never been run down enough to require recharging with a battery charger. (at some point, the weather usually warms up and then the car fires up normal as can be)
> 
> As for re-starting.....that's never an issue, until I let it go too far between starts in cold weather. i.e. IF I get it started, I can re-start it as many times as I feel the need to do so, as long as I do not let the engine cool off back to air temp for 2 long. And it always fires up immediately, cleanly, and easily. However, once I've waiting until it's back to basically air temp, it's back to endless cranking with no fire up until the temp goes up or I get EXTREMELY lucky.
> 
> ...


is your battery the correct one for your truck?


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## pissed owner (Jan 17, 2016)

Maybe I am just too trusting despite my extreme lack of faith in nissan service techs/shops, but I have assumed that since it was in fact installed by the idiots AT nissan that it's the correct battery. I suppose it's possible that they can't even manage that much without having their hands held and their work triple checked. 

I will check that now. I will make the unneeded assumption before hand that it is EXACTLY the bare minimum CCA required by the Pathfinder to start, because that's how Nissan rolls. I do know what the battery it came with was rated at 550 CCA so I'm willing to bet that that's exactly what they put back in with a new battery.

While I do that. IF (I know it's a big if, lol) we throw out the battery as the problem......any Ideas as to what else the problem could be?


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## kukla (Apr 1, 2010)

Did you read my Post #3, above?
I'm not ready to throw out the battery as a problem (yet).
I own two R51 Pathfinders, both 2005s.
I've experienced these symptoms many times, about every three years on each truck.
If the battery has not been *properly serviced & load tested*, it should be.
We don't know that it has.
When they tested it at the dealership, for all we know they may have checked the voltage, and that's all.
And sometimes even new batteries can be defective.


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## pissed owner (Jan 17, 2016)

I did. Unfortunately, I have run out of time for tinkering with it. I've had to have it hauled into the garage. They can sort it out. It needs to be running ASAP as I've got a job to go to. This thing is nothing but a collection of problems. Low beam lights are also out and as with the battery, I couldn't tinker with it due to the hood being frozen shut and a 5 day stretch of single digit temps. I'll post the "diagnosis" from this trip when I get a chance. I'm sure it will be $500 or more, as per the usual with this lemon.


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## kukla (Apr 1, 2010)

I'd be interested to know what the trouble turns out to be.
Has anyone approached any of this by looking for a poor - ground issue?


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## pissed owner (Jan 17, 2016)

I will post what, if anything, is learned. Following a check on the battery, my next area of interest was going to be the grounding. I've read in more than one place both on this site and other forums that grounding has been the fault for issues similar to this and others that I've experienced with this Pathfinder. Everything from coming loose to being so badly corroded that they've needed not just cleaning but complete replacement.

The only reason it hasn't been higher on my list of suspects is that I've had loose/faulty grounds before with other vehicles and at those times, the list of strange happenings from those have been quite a bit longer with more than a few tell-tale type signs. Flickering lights, random lack of response when turning the key(just literally nothing happens), wild fluctuations in the volt meter readings, etc.

Btw, Thank you for your responses. They are much appreciated.


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## annoyedwithpathfinde (Jan 20, 2016)

*aggravated with pathfinder*

I just read your entire thread of challenges with your vehicle and I am having same challenges. To this point we have replaced the crankshaft sensor, power distribution module, black terminal cable wiring, new factory oem battery with highest ccr. - $1100 in and 3 days later temperature drops and the car doesn't start - cranks but no start. I am so annoyed and have no idea what's next. I have read multiple threads of theories but no ultimate root cause. 

sorry don't have a proposal for you but did want to sympathize you are not alone in the aggravation.


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## saeed2017 (Jan 15, 2017)

I have same problem with pathfinder 2007. I just put a new battery from costco but still if it is below -2 and I have not used it for one day, it will not start, although cranks ok. It would start with a minor boost from my other car. Cant figure out what it is.


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## Lorna (Oct 14, 2019)

Did any of you ever figure out what the problem was???? Have been doing all the same things. No one can figure out the problem!


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

annoyedwithpathfinde said:


> *aggravated with pathfinder*
> 
> I just read your entire thread of challenges with your vehicle and I am having same challenges. To this point we have replaced the crankshaft sensor, power distribution module, black terminal cable wiring, new factory oem battery with highest ccr. - $1100 in and 3 days later temperature drops and the car doesn't start - cranks but no start. I am so annoyed and have no idea what's next. I have read multiple threads of theories but no ultimate root cause.


One of the first things to do is perform an ECU code readout with a portable scan tool to see if any fault codes are set. The tool can be purchased at most auto parts stores. Post the actual codes here on the forum so that we may be able to help you further. If there is one or more fault codes set, they can help point to the malfunction. If you have a copy of the FSM for your vehicle, the code readout procedure is described there along with a listing of codes. You can download a copy of the FSM from this web site: https://ownersmanuals2.com/. The section EC.PDF is the one you need to read.

When the vehicle is unable to start, you'll have to determine *at that moment* if there's an ignition or fuel delivery problem:

* Testing fuel delivery:
An easy way to test the fuel pump and filter is to disconnect the fuel feed hose from the fuel rail and connect it to a long length of spare hose with the other end draped over the fender going into a catch can placed on the ground. Now turn the ignition key to the run position but DO NOT START THE ENGINE. You should see fuel going into the can at a good rate for several seconds.

Tee-in a temporary fuel pressure gauge between the fuel feed hose and the fuel rail. The readings at idle should be 51 psi. If the engine is unable to start, turn the ignition key to the run position but *DO NOT TRY TO START THE ENGINE*. The fuel pressure reading should still be around 51 psi which would be a static reading.

The fuel injectors may not be firing. This can be tested with a "noid" light probe for each injector harness connector.

* Testing ignition:
Pull several coil packs to test; use a spare spark plug in the coil pack to test; ground the plug base with a jumper wire to the engine block; see if you're getting a spark while trying to start the engine.

* The cam timing may be incorrect:
Check for a broken chain guide. See if it's broken or it may be cracked and has skipped some teeth.

* There may be a major intake system vacuum leak:
To check the intake system for a vacuum leak, attach a vacuum gauge to a full vacuum source. With the engine fully warmed up, the reading at idle should be 18 - 20 InHg. At 3,000 RPM, it should be 21 InHg. If readings are under 18 InHg, check the intake manifold nuts to make sure they are tight. The gasket may have failed; spray a water mist at the gasket to see if the gauge reading changes. Also check the intake plenum bellows at the throttle valve and at the MAF for cracks or loose clamps.


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## RichS (Nov 13, 2019)

OK, I'm bumping this thread. I have a 2010 V6 SE. Had the problem all last winter, multiple trips to the dealership, ALL repairs listed in this thread have been done. Then spring came and all was good. Now here we go again. 30 degrees this morning and it won't start again. Has anyone figured this out or is this just a mystery never to be solved?


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

RichS said:


> OK, I'm bumping this thread. I have a 2010 V6 SE. Had the problem all last winter, multiple trips to the dealership, ALL repairs listed in this thread have been done. Then spring came and all was good. Now here we go again. 30 degrees this morning and it won't start again. Has anyone figured this out or is this just a mystery never to be solved?


If you haven't performed the procedural diagnostic steps that I outlined with my above post, then I would highly recommend it; otherwise you'll be just chasing your tail and spending a needless amount of expense.


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## Pjklebaur (Dec 12, 2019)

hey, been having the same problem for 5 winters. Were you ever able to locate the source of the problem. Like you I’ve tried almost everything imaginable. 



pissed owner said:


> I will post what, if anything, is learned. Following a check on the battery, my next area of interest was going to be the grounding. I've read in more than one place both on this site and other forums that grounding has been the fault for issues similar to this and others that I've experienced with this Pathfinder. Everything from coming loose to being so badly corroded that they've needed not just cleaning but complete replacement.
> 
> The only reason it hasn't been higher on my list of suspects is that I've had loose/faulty grounds before with other vehicles and at those times, the list of strange happenings from those have been quite a bit longer with more than a few tell-tale type signs. Flickering lights, random lack of response when turning the key(just literally nothing happens), wild fluctuations in the volt meter readings, etc.
> 
> Btw, Thank you for your responses. They are much appreciated.


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## RichS (Nov 13, 2019)

I had a Nissan battery put in and they cleaned the grounding points and it seems to have worked.


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## RichS (Nov 13, 2019)

*UPDATE*
The temperature dropped to 20 degrees and it wont start again.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

When the vehicle is unable to start, you'll have to determine *at that moment* if there's an ignition or fuel delivery problem.

If you haven't performed the procedural diagnostic steps that I outlined with my previous post, then I would highly recommend it; otherwise you'll be just chasing your tail and spending a needless amount of expense.


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## Grason (Dec 20, 2019)

Generally what we see when this issue occurs is multiple can communication codes from the ecm going off line. Cleaning the main ground will take care of the issue of the corrosion isn’t actually inside the main ground cable causing a substantial voltage drop. Essentially the ground cable turns into a large resistor preventing 12.6v going to the ecm. I would suggest replacing the main ground cable directly off the battery.

I have seen multiple people replace the ground terminal end with an off the shelf part causing the same issue. Generally they will come in with a marine terminal end which has excessive resistance for the automotive industry. 

This can be a difficult to diagnose issue especially if it’s not cold enough to duplicate frequently as a crank no start can be caused by a bunch of other things.


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## gt601 (Dec 21, 2019)

New here but see if you can get ahold of a scanner that can give you sensor readings when this happens. Make sure that let's say the intake temp sensor and the coolant temp sensor are reading correctly. You may have the intake reading -50f and the it will try and either dump too much fuel or not enough to fire it up. 
When I worked on cars I've seen a sensor all of the sudden read crazy numbers while warming up and stall the car. 
Just a thought. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## DMPhilly (Jan 19, 2020)

I'm having the same issue with my 2012 Pathfinder V6, trouble started last winter. Very frustrating, I've missed work meetings and been late a few times because of it.

I replaced my battery, cleaned the battery connections but car still won't start on cold mornings. Just today I tested the battery and connections, all come in great. I'm guessing it could be a fuel issue from the rogoman post above. I'm having it checked out tomorrow.


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## CarDummy (Jan 30, 2020)

Coolant temperature sensor........you need more fuel for cold weather startup......ecm cant see engine is cold because temp sensor is bad...........you can thank me later.....lol......


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## ProfessorSmartazz (Jan 28, 2020)

rogoman said:


> When the engine is cold, spin the engine and see if you're getting a strong spark at the plugs. If not, the battery may have some weak cells, so at this point the interstate battery would be the prime suspect.


And to make reference to your earlier retort to myself: YOU are clearly not a tech...Please stop giving half-arsed, blind advice to people.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Well I'll give you a little autobiography. I got my *ASE certification* back in 1990. Ran a small auto repair business back then; turned it into a speed shop. Built many race engines for clients; mostly Chevy small/big block V8's. Decided to retire. So I think I'm qualified.

You sound like a lobbyist for the auto repair industry. A lot of members on this forum can't afford to take their vehicle to a repair shop at $120/hr labor charge just for diagnosis let alone actual repair. A lot of members are just novices when it comes to auto mechanics but they are eager to learn; we try to help them along. 

Like I said in my previous post, this forum is to try to help people with their vehicle problems. When trying to help people, some times a member's opinion is correct and some times it's not but that's OK; someone else will chime in and add their opinion without being *flamed*. Flaming is not tolerated on this forum which it looks like you're tying to do. If you keep it up, you'll be banned from this forum.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

Rogoman has been helping people out on this forum for a very, long time...for over 15 years...and I've been a member for a few years, myself. While he may not be a certified Nissan Master Tech, I was, leaving Nissan in 2003 having worked for them for a total of 16-years between 1985-2003 (I left for a couple of years to do other things and went back). There may be a once-in-a-blue-moon moment when some of his advice might need a small correction, but 99.5% of the time his advice is pretty solid and he's definitely an important contributor to this site. He is clearly a very knowledgeable automotive technician by evidence of some of the thousands of replies he has given to other members looking for help for their Nissan problems.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

smj999smj said:


> Rogoman has been helping people out on this forum for a very, long time...for over 15 years...and I've been a member for a few years, myself. While he may not be a certified Nissan Master Tech, I was, leaving Nissan in 2003 having worked for them for a total of 16-years between 1985-2003 (I left for a couple of years to do other things and went back). There may be a once-in-a-blue-moon moment when some of his advice might need a small correction, but 99.5% of the time his advice is pretty solid and he's definitely an important contributor to this site. He is clearly a very knowledgeable automotive technician by evidence of some of the thousands of replies he has given to other members looking for help for their Nissan problems.


Thanks SMJ, I appreciate that!


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

rogoman said:


> Thanks SMJ, I appreciate that!


No, thank you! It's hard to keep up with traffic as an Admin on TheNissanPath.com, a Mod on this forum and member at ClubFrontier.org and NissanHelp.com along with the rest of things I have to do in my life. Since I own an R51 Pathfinder and a D22 Frontier, NissanForums has dropped to 3rd on my list of forum priorities. You save me a lot of work!


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## Robo129 (Mar 7, 2020)

pissed owner said:


> Ok. Same problem. At 40 degrees it WILL NOT start. 50 degrees it starts EVERY time without fail. in between those 40 and 50 degrees maybe starts, maybe doesn't. This is a 2007 Pathfinder. It has brand new terminals (old ones corroded beyond belief because some idiot put copper terminals on it) and because of the older bad terminals, I put a brand new battery in it last year. All work done by a nissan dealership service dept. ( who could admittedly be just as stupid as a non nissan service dept so....there's always that).
> 
> 3 weeks ago during a cold snap, I blew a relay. I could HEAR the difference in the cranking as soon as it blew, but at the time didn't know what exactly had changed, just that something had changed. Towed to repairshop and found out it was a relay that was repaired. Now we have a new cold snap and I'm back to where I was, I just try less often and for shorter periods of time to get the thing started.
> 
> Anything else it could be, besides battery/starter issues(as these have all be checked and determined not to be the problem)??


I hear you, I have a 2007 Pathfinder and when it gets to below minus 6, (ALBERTA Canada) it simply gives up the Ghost. It will not start, have checked everything known to mankind, all seems to be working properly ,it simply cranks, but no start. When the temperature warms up, she runs perfectly. What good is a vehicle when it is like that, even plugging the vehicle in, does not help!?


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## kukla (Apr 1, 2010)

Robo129 said:


> I hear you, I have a 2007 Pathfinder and when it gets to below minus 6, (ALBERTA Canada) it simply gives up the Ghost. It will not start, have checked everything known to mankind, all seems to be working properly ,it simply cranks, but no start. When the temperature warms up, she runs perfectly. What good is a vehicle when it is like that, even plugging the vehicle in, does not help!?


What do you mean by "plugging it in"?
At the time of not starting, can you hook up to another strong battery with jumper cables to see if it makes a difference?


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## Robo129 (Mar 7, 2020)

kukla said:


> What do you mean by "plugging it in"?
> At the time of not starting, can you hook up to another strong battery with jumper cables to see if it makes a difference?


Plugging it in means warming the engine oil up by connecting to the mains.
Have also tried hooking another battery to it as one would do when jump starting it up!


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## Robo129 (Mar 7, 2020)

When you take the vehicle to the dealership, it just seems a process of elimination at the owners expense judging by past experiences on the forums that Nissan dealerships are unable to fix the problem!


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## kukla (Apr 1, 2010)

Robo129 said:


> Plugging it in means warming the engine oil up by connecting to the mains.
> Have also tried hooking another battery to it as one would do when jump starting it up!





Robo129 said:


> When you take the vehicle to the dealership, it just seems a process of elimination at the owners expense judging by past experiences on the forums that Nissan dealerships are unable to fix the problem!


I know!
Very frustrating.
I've been on both sides of that coin, so I understand.
Most problems are not that complicated, and many tend to overlook the basics.
That said, some problems can be very complex to diagnose, but dealerships should be more up front about the cost of diagnostics than they tend to be.
As a service manager and technician (motorcycle, ATV, PWC) industry, I was always very careful to explain that we have to go step by step, and that sometimes it takes far more than anyone realizes to pin down a problem.
One thing that I was very conscientious of is to not make a customer incur the cost of a recommended repair that did not solve the problem.
The other side of this is that even with the proper tools & training, a difficult problem can be very time consuming to identify.
Very frustrating.
OTOH, can you elaborate specifically what you mean by,,,,,,,,,,"have checked everything known to mankind"? 
Maybe from that we can help?


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## Robo129 (Mar 7, 2020)

All fuses and relays have been checked. The ECM working as it should and the box containing the relays and fuses in the engine compartment. Battery is okay. Battery post connectors all clean. Oil is 5W-30. Fuel pump okay. Runs without a problem when the temperature is warmer. So am stuck with a Nissan Pathfinder 2007 that should have been made for the tropical climates!! Reading through the forums, it is a very common problem I have never had a vehicle that has this problem!! I would be very hesitant about buying another Nissan!!


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Let's backup and get to the basics. *When the vehicle is unable to start*, you'll have to determine *at that moment* if there's an ignition or fuel delivery problem. If you haven't performed the procedural diagnostic steps that I'm outlining below, then I would highly recommend it; otherwise you'll be just chasing your tail and spending a needless amount of expense.

* Testing fuel delivery:
A quick way to test the fuel pump and filter is to disconnect the fuel feed hose from the fuel rail and connect it to a long length of spare hose with the other end draped over the fender going into a catch can placed on the ground. Now turn the ignition key to the run position but *DO NOT START THE ENGINE*. You should see fuel going into the can at a good rate for several seconds. If you see the fuel pouring out, then tee-in a temporary fuel pressure gauge between the fuel feed hose and the fuel rail. Turn the ignition key to the run position but *DO NOT TRY TO START THE ENGINE*. The fuel pressure reading should be around 51 psi which would be a static reading.

The fuel injectors may not be firing. This can be tested with a "noid" light probe for each injector harness connector. The probe kit can be purchased at most auto parts stores or at Amazon.com.

* Testing ignition:
Pull several coil packs to test; use a spare spark plug in the coil pack to test; ground the plug base with a jumper wire to the engine block; see if you're getting a strong spark while trying to start the engine.

* There may be a major intake system vacuum leak:
Check the intake manifold nuts to make sure they are tight. Also check the intake plenum bellows at the throttle valve and at the MAF for cracks or loose clamps.


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## Robo129 (Mar 7, 2020)

Thank you for all the help from the forum. SPlashed out and purchased anew battery. It has started for the past 3 days without a hitch. Saturday supposed to hit minus 27 degrees here in Calgary. That will be the test, once again, many thanks.


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## kukla (Apr 1, 2010)

Robo129 said:


> Thank you for all the help from the forum. SPlashed out and purchased anew battery. It has started for the past 3 days without a hitch. Saturday supposed to hit minus 27 degrees here in Calgary. That will be the test, once again, many thanks.


LOL
It just occurred to me that I addressed this problem on page 1 of this topic in January of 2016.
Can't say that it will solve everyones cold start problems, but want to point out that not all problems are of the "rocket science" variety, and that the basics should NEVER be overlooked. 
Good luck Robo129!
Please let us know how you do this weekend.


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## Robo129 (Mar 7, 2020)

I must hang my head low!! I always believed that if the battery was strong enough to turn the engine over, it would start. I have been enlightened to the fact, this is not the case. I installed a new battery and low and behold, being minus 17 this morning. IT STARTED. Can't believe it. I am not a mechanic and wanted to solve this problem without spending big dollars. Without your suggestion I would have been big dollars lighter in my pocket. Thank you for all of your help and advice, this truly is a great forum. Many many thanks.


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## kukla (Apr 1, 2010)

Robo129 said:


> I must hang my head low!! I always believed that if the battery was strong enough to turn the engine over, it would start. I have been enlightened to the fact, this is not the case. I installed a new battery and low and behold, being minus 17 this morning. IT STARTED. Can't believe it. I am not a mechanic and wanted to solve this problem without spending big dollars. Without your suggestion I would have been big dollars lighter in my pocket. Thank you for all of your help and advice, this truly is a great forum. Many many thanks.


You're welcome!
I've mentioned repeatedly that this might not be the solution for everybody, but I'm glad it seems to have solved yours.
Battery related issues can cause many seemingly unrelated problems, though other things can be wrong.
But I've learned throughout my career to eliminate the basic stuff first before going into "rocket science" mode.
Also, a battery should always be considered (at least to some point) an expendable item, not something expected to last indefinitely.
Batteries, as good as they are, have a tough life.


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## johnson233 (Mar 12, 2020)

A complicated problem... Maybe you should send your car to repair. Once my perodua is in a trouble, I have it repaired.


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## Habanero (Dec 22, 2020)

johnson233 said:


> A complicated problem... Maybe you should send your car to repair. Once my perodua is in a trouble, I have it repaired.
> [/QUOTE


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## Habanero (Dec 22, 2020)

I have the same problem warm weather it starts , when in 30's and cold cranks good , tried jump starting no luck , even had battery hooked to charger all night , cranks fast no start , sprayed carb cleaner in intake , didnt even get a kick like trying to start , replaced ecm relay , and crank sensor , after crank sensor, better throttle response , but still no start when in 30's , have to rely on my 62 Pontiac with no choke that starts right up and take it to work,, very frustrated


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Even If the battery is of the premium type and is around 4 years old or more, it's probably not holding a full charge like it should, so during startup, the voltage drops off below 12V at varying degrees thus causing startup problems.
As a lead acid battery goes through charge/discharge cycles a chemical reaction between the cell's lead plates and the electrolyte occurs. But as the chemical reaction occurs over time, the positive and negative lead plates are slowly coated with lead sulfate. This process is known as sulfation, and it reduces your battery's ability to hold a full charge so you end up with one or more weak or dead cells. To complicate matters, lead acid batteries experience self-discharge, a natural loss of charge over time. Left too long without a fresh charge, a battery can discharge beyond recovery. While the process is reversible, the number of charges and discharge cycles is limited. The number of times the battery can totally die is also limited. So you may find that even if you fix any underlying problem, a battery that has been jump-started or charged from dead more than a handful of times will have to be replaced anyway.


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## Habanero (Dec 22, 2020)

rogoman said:


> Even If the battery is of the premium type and is around 4 years old or more, it's probably not holding a full charge like it should, so during startup, the voltage drops off below 12V at varying degrees thus causing startup problems.
> As a lead acid battery goes through charge/discharge cycles a chemical reaction between the cell's lead plates and the electrolyte occurs. But as the chemical reaction occurs over time, the positive and negative lead plates are slowly coated with lead sulfate. This process is known as sulfation, and it reduces your battery's ability to hold a full charge so you end up with one or more weak or dead cells. To complicate matters, lead acid batteries experience self-discharge, a natural loss of charge over time. Left too long without a fresh charge, a battery can discharge beyond recovery. While the process is reversible, the number of charges and discharge cycles is limited. The number of times the battery can totally die is also limited. So you may find that even if you fix any underlying problem, a battery that has been jump-started or charged from dead more than a handful of times will have to be replaced anyway.


Battery 2 yrs old


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Habanero said:


> Battery 2 yrs old


Is the battery a good brand or is it a cheap brand-X. I've seen good batteries that should last 5 or 6 years, last only 2 or 3 years; it happens!


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## Habanero (Dec 22, 2020)

The next on my list is to replace negative battery cable, cause it is worn


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Habanero said:


> The next on my list is to replace negative battery cable, cause it is worn


Most certainly. It looks real bad! Also make sure the battery positive (+) connector is in good shape. Clean those battery posts.


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## Habanero (Dec 22, 2020)

I replaced the positive side too , and pulled and sanded fuse prongs


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## 2012 Pathfinder (Jan 2, 2021)

rockUrRoll said:


> 2010 pathfinder that turns over a lot before starting but only when its cold. Just started doing that this year. The colder it is the longer it takes to finally start.start. I've been told bad maf sensor,distributor cap,dirty injectors could be causing the problems. But why do I only have problems when its cold. I will say that I didn't start noticing this issue until I put a used interstate battery in the car. I don't know if that's a coincidence or what but it turns over normally just takes forever to crank. And today it wouldnt crank at all so.... Any thoughts? And the engine light is not on.


I own a 2012 Pathfinder. Would not start when cold. Had (ECM) Electronic Control Modulator rebuilt. Located on inside fender near fire wall, passenger side near fuse box. Company I sent ECM too was FS1 in New York. $400 dollar repair. Worth every penny. Truck starts right up in the coldest weather.


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## DOOSEY29 (Jan 30, 2021)

rockUrRoll said:


> 2010 pathfinder that turns over a lot before starting but only when its cold. Just started doing that this year. The colder it is the longer it takes to finally start.start. I've been told bad maf sensor,distributor cap,dirty injectors could be causing the problems. But why do I only have problems when its cold. I will say that I didn't start noticing this issue until I put a used interstate battery in the car. I don't know if that's a coincidence or what but it turns over normally just takes forever to crank. And today it wouldnt crank at all so.... Any thoughts? And the engine light is not on.


I previously ran into the same problem. When the temperature is in the low twenties it would not start. So I put some gas line antifreez in kept the fuel over the half mark .. starts right up every time. Hope this helps


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## RichS (Nov 13, 2019)

If anyone is still having this issue I seemed to have solved it by putting a Optima Batteries 8020-164 35 RedTop Starting Battery in my 2010. This winter we have had plenty of sub 20 degree days and it fires up every time.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

You guys I am at a loss. I bought a 2012 a couple months ago in the very next morning after parking it outside it would not start. I went through the forms and read what everyone was saying. I replace the battery, the cam position sensors, the crank position sensor, the coolant temperature sensor, and even the mass airflow sensor that Was throwing a code, cleaned the ground connections on the engine/body. This thing will not start when it’s cold. I ordered a “new” ECU from flagship1, I received it and it would not start because of the immobilizer was kicked in, I sent them my factory ECU along with the one that I purchased from them to have them clone it and when I got it back 55 days after I originally purchased it I was getting codes for the throttle position. needless to say my experience with flagship is severely negative, and their customer service reps have no soul, they could care less about the time I have been without my vehicle while their “technicians“ have been looking into it. It will crank, no start. It doesn’t have any spark when it’s cold. I can spray starting fluid in the intake and it does not affect it in anyway. If I leave it parked in my heated shop it will start up every time, if I leave it running I can drive it all day without a hiccup. I am at a loss as to where to go with this thing, I am open to suggestions.


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

That sure sounds like a crank sensor issue. Did you replace it with a Nissan part, or aftermarket? You can diagnose it by seeing if you get an RPM reading on a scanner while it's cranking (don't go by the dash tach, the cluster loses power during cranking). Most Nissan ECM's get the RPM signal exclusively from the CKP, so if it streams 0 RPM while cranking or the reading bounces all over the place, it's a sure sign that the CKP is misbehaving. You should see something like a steady 200, if so that rules the CKP out.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

I replaced it with an aftermarket one from one of the local auto parts stores. You think the crank sensor would be temperature sensitive?


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

Not necessarily but it could, and the mechanical clearances will certainly change with temperature. But you can find dozens, maybe hundreds, of posts in here from people who bought parts store CKP's and CMP's and ended up sorry. I'm not one of those "OE only" guys, there are lots of aftermarket parts that work just fine on a Nissan. Hall and inductive sensors just aren't among them.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

I guess it could be, I’ll back it outside and look for the signal in the morning. If I don’t get the tach signal it’ll give me a rabbit hole to go down.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

It wouldn't read the RPM's, I think it said "no signal from the PCM". I'll look at it again when I get home from work.


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

That could be the ECM Relay too. Sometimes when the relays get crappy they "drop out" whenever the voltage drops, like when the vehicle is cranking. Unfortunately on a '12 it isn't serviceable, it's inside the IPDM. Put a voltmeter on IPDM pins 3, 4 and 7 and see if the voltage is significantly lower while cranking than the voltage at the battery. If so, your IPDM is causing the problem.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

Ok, will do.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

I had to put a radiator and heater hose in my wifes escalade so we just got around to this.
9.8V on pin 3
9.8V on pin4
9.3V on pin7
battery measured 12.1V after the failed starting attempt to get the readings.


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

That 9.8V is pretty low, so it sounds like there's resistance in the relay contacts. With a healthy relay all three pins should be very close to battery voltage. The pins are all interconnected inside the IPDM, so try jumping 12V from the battery to any one of them and see if the car starts. If so, the relay is shot. Note that you won't be able to shut it off with the jumper in place, just yank the jumper after the test.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

I back pinned connector E119 pins 2,4, and 7 one at time with a jumper wire from the positive battery post.
Crank/No start condition remains.


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

Does the ECM scan with the jumper on it? If not, it's looking like a bad ECM. It has to be alive because it's enabling the ECM relay, but if it isn't talking to a scanner then it can't communicate with the BCM either and read the key signal. That will cause a crank with no spark. Are you getting a security light on the dash?


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

I’ll see if I can get it to communicate with the ECU with the jumper installed this afternoon. Where would you suggest I get an ECM? I think this pathfinder came from Canada so that probably doesn’t help with procurement either.


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

To find a used one, you need to get the Hitachi part number off the label on the ECM. That's what JY's go by. The Nissan p/n is actually stored in the firmware and won't be anyplace on the exterior, so googling with that is useless even if you know what it is. Reading the number is a PITA on an R51 Pathy because the ECM is buried and the label faces the IPDM box. I usually use our borescope, but if you don't have access to one of those you may be able to read it with a dentist mirror by prying the box back a little. The label will look like this:









The MEC###-### needs to be an exact match, and it's helpful if you can match the number where the "C1" is also, that's usually a firmware code. The other numbers are date and production codes and don't matter. It will still need to go to the dealer after you swap it, the used one will at least need the keys programmed, the VIN re-written, and the CTPL and IAVL algorithms run to calibrate the MAF. Depending on the firmware already in it, it may also need a firmware update.

Since you had starting issues, is it possible your positive battery terminal was crappy enough to throw a spark? That's the leading cause of death for R51 ECM's, as well as Frontiers, Xterras and gen1 Armadas and Titans. When you turn the key to start, any spark that happens at the + terminal is carrying 200A for the starter. So its power is about 2 _kilo_watts minimum, and the EMF that comes off it can reach thousands of volts. The power wire from the battery to the ECM backup terminal on those models is pretty much a straight line with no loops to attenuate the EMF, so the usual result is melted protection diodes and a dead ECM.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

Any way to assure that I’m not buying a used one that is smoked also? I have the ECM in the house to warm up while I’m at work today, so getting the numbers off of it will be easy, although I think I already have a picture on my phone from a couple months ago.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

I cold soaked the ECM outside in subzero weather for a day and had the vehicle parked inside, when I put the cold ECM back in the warm vehicle it would not start until it warmed up. I want to try it the other way around again and see if the warm ECM will start the cold vehicle.


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

Good thought. If you get the ECM from a reputable multi-JY vendor like LKQ or CarParts.com, or from a JY that has more than one of the type you need, you can always return and swap it if you happen to get a smoked one.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

VStar650CL said:


> Are you getting a security light on the dash?


No security light.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

Yesterday I installed the warm ECM in the in the cold soaked vehicle and it wouldn't start at first, the battery was a little low due to cranking with the jumper wire. When I jumped it with the tractor it started. I took it to town and it ran fine. 
this morning I turned on the key and scanned it first thing, no codes present. I tried to start it and it would roll over fast but again crank/no start. I scanned it again and got the following codes.
U1000 CAN Communication Circuit Transmission
U1000 CAN Communication Circuit IPDM E/R
U1000 CAN Communication Circuit AWD/4WD

Do these systems get a signal through the ECM via the can bus system?
I guess what I'm thinking is that maybe I have an ECM and IPDM failure or maybe it's something completely different?


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

Those U1000's mean the ECM dropped out of communication for at least 2 seconds. So there are really only two possibilities, either the ECM is losing power or ground, or the ECM is bad. The only way to really verify that is to pop the backshell off the ECM "E" connector (engine room harness) and backprobe the power and ground wires _while it's misbehaving_. The power shouldn't drop below about 9V while cranking and the ground shouldn't rise above about 0.1V. If those both show good then the problem is inside the ECM. Note that the ECM ground connection on an R51 is on the inner fender behind the battery, so it's subject to corrosion. You might want to stick a wrench back there and tweak both bolts. I can't recall which of the two is for the ECM, I think the front one but I'm not sure.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

OK sounds great! I'm pretty sure I cleaned the ground connection behind the battery but I'll make sure before proceeding. Then I'll back pin connector E16 pins 119/120 and make sure that I have >9V while cranking and pins 115/116 looking for <0.1V. Thanks for the help!


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

The ground wire behind the battery was cleaned previously. I Was finally able to backpin the ECM E connector pins with the following results.
119 9.72v
120 9.58v
115 0.92v max then .82
116 0.99v max then .82


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

Those readings are healthy. If it was misbehaving at the time then your ECM has gone south.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

Alright, thanks for the help! I’ll get one on order and report back if that does the trick.


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

Well I finally dropped it off at the dealer yesterday for the ECM programming that is scheduled for today. They said that it would be about $145. called back this morning and said that it will require the steering angle sensor calibration and Idle relearn so I'm looking at closer to $270.We'll see what happens..


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## coolbluestreak (11 mo ago)

Well the ECM replacement seems to fix the crank no start issue.
Long story short, total repair cost after getting jerked around by Flagship One was $143 for a Ebay ECM and $229 for programming at the dealer. It has started every time for the past 3 days including this morning at 32deg F. Thank you* VStar650CL *for all the help!


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

Bet all that was wrong with the original was one, tiny cold-solder joint, too. Electronics problems can be _so_ goofy to chase down. Very glad you got it straightened away, happy motoring!


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## ZEEZ 92' (10 mo ago)

WOW... ALOT COLD DAYS I PUSH START MY '92 CAUSE IM GUESSING BAD CONNECTORS... SOMEWHERE.
SOMEDAY I WILL ROOT THEM OUT ... someday


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