# Musing about Super Charging



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Been daydreaming about various psycho mods to my CA18DE. My latest musing is to add a supercharger. I'm thinking get a custom mount unit made to go in place of the A/C compressor. Was looking at Vortech Engineering and thinking it would be possible.

It wouldn't be cheap, almost 2k for the supercharger unit but it would be something unique, except for blownb310's blown CA20E B310.

Whatcha guys think?


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## B11sleeper (Oct 15, 2003)

i think you add one of these bad boyz:








electric powered able to really move some CFM.


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## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Uh, I don't think that would fit..hehehe


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## B11sleeper (Oct 15, 2003)

just put it in the trunk and run a section of 3" pipe up to the engine bay. Give the trunk fresh air from a big roof scoop and run A/C duct down from the roof scoop to the trunk.

it flows something like 1000 cfm at 200" of water. you only need 300 cfm at maybe 20". it might run off a 4HP electric motor in which case it would fit in the trunk.

this would be so sick if someone were giving me parts for free.


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## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

I wanted to put a Supercharger not a Psychocharger :crazy: 

I read about some guys in Australia that hooked up a 240v industrial blower to an EXA (Pulsar) and ran it around for about a half hour before it blew a head gasket. Probably about the same thing.


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

Moving to correct section.


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## B11sleeper (Oct 15, 2003)

more thought about different ways to supercharge. I was thinking about why the ebay 'electric supercharger' doesn't work. because there is no 2 pounds of boost at WOT. it only flows however many cfm at 1 atmosphere. I'm thinking of trying something using one of those whole house air circultor fans, about 12" in diameter, moves about 1000 cfm in the open air, it doesn't draw that much electricity at 120 VAC so it can run on a small inverter. Using a conical housing I squeeze the output down to 3" tubing/ should be a 4-1 increase in pressure which gets us induction at higher than ambient pressure and enough flow to deliver 250 cfm while still providing boost.

oh yeah did i mention it's full boost from idle...

this should atleast provide a good learning experience. how much boost can i get away with on an e16s with the stock compression ratio?


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## MyClunkyAss12er (May 16, 2003)

B11sleeper said:


> more thought about different ways to supercharge. I was thinking about why the ebay 'electric supercharger' doesn't work. because there is no 2 pounds of boost at WOT. it only flows however many cfm at 1 atmosphere. I'm thinking of trying something using one of those whole house air circultor fans, about 12" in diameter, moves about 1000 cfm in the open air, it doesn't draw that much electricity at 120 VAC so it can run on a small inverter. Using a conical housing I squeeze the output down to 3" tubing/ should be a 4-1 increase in pressure which gets us induction at higher than ambient pressure and enough flow to deliver 250 cfm while still providing boost.
> 
> oh yeah did i mention it's full boost from idle...
> 
> this should atleast provide a good learning experience. how much boost can i get away with on an e16s with the stock compression ratio?


boostin the e16s is a big no no...... boost the fuel injected version if anything... but this does soudn like a very interesting idea. definatly somthing one of us crazy old b11/b12 owners would do just for the hell of it! though it doesnt sound very probable keep us posted on what u do and if it works at all


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

B11sleeper said:


> more thought about different ways to supercharge. I was thinking about why the ebay 'electric supercharger' doesn't work. because there is no 2 pounds of boost at WOT. it only flows however many cfm at 1 atmosphere. I'm thinking of trying something using one of those whole house air circultor fans, about 12" in diameter, moves about 1000 cfm in the open air, it doesn't draw that much electricity at 120 VAC so it can run on a small inverter. Using a conical housing I squeeze the output down to 3" tubing/ should be a 4-1 increase in pressure which gets us induction at higher than ambient pressure and enough flow to deliver 250 cfm while still providing boost.
> 
> oh yeah did i mention it's full boost from idle...
> 
> this should atleast provide a good learning experience. how much boost can i get away with on an e16s with the stock compression ratio?


You are joking right?

It takes about 12-18 hp to make a decent amount of boost (8-10 psi) on an engine with a 1600-2000cc swallowing capcity at a VE of about 80%.

Mike


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## B11sleeper (Oct 15, 2003)

Are you saying that a belt driven charger puts 12 - 18 HP worth of drag on the engine or that it takes 12-18 HP from an electric motor? Electric motors are 25% more efficent at making the same HP. Anyways, the boost I was imagining was under 4psi for this idea. Maybe it doesn't work in this form, the Vortech Electric blower would work, but it's probably expensive. I'll look at the specs sheet and figure out what electric motor they are using.

There is no reason why this can't work, it's kind of a daydream. With the right compressor, and something to get power from the crank to the compressor, it might work. Will it be more efficent than a turbo or a supercharger? No.


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

Myetball said:


> Been daydreaming about various psycho mods to my CA18DE. My latest musing is to add a supercharger. I'm thinking get a custom mount unit made to go in place of the A/C compressor. Was looking at Vortech Engineering and thinking it would be possible.


Check out this thread. Check near the bottom of the first page and following. Mike Kojima (Nissan performance guru) doesn't think much of the superchargers available our cars.

http://www.nissanforums.com/showthread.php?t=45812

Lew


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

B11sleeper said:


> Are you saying that a belt driven charger puts 12 - 18 HP worth of drag on the engine or that it takes 12-18 HP from an electric motor? Electric motors are 25% more efficent at making the same HP. Anyways, the boost I was imagining was under 4psi for this idea. Maybe it doesn't work in this form, the Vortech Electric blower would work, but it's probably expensive. I'll look at the specs sheet and figure out what electric motor they are using.
> 
> There is no reason why this can't work, it's kind of a daydream. With the right compressor, and something to get power from the crank to the compressor, it might work. Will it be more efficent than a turbo or a supercharger? No.


It doesnt matter what sourse the power comes from to turn the blower.

When you consider that the electrical power must be generated by an IC motor, the electrical motor is actualy many times less efficent that just driving it from the crank.

When they are talking 1000 CMF for a house fan, they are not talking about having much in the way of pressure differential, like your typical head is flowed at 28" of H2O. Thats why the fan won't work, it can't move air at that pressure ratio, it can't create 4 psi without backflowing.

I am not saying that it won't work, you just need a powerful electric motor and you can only run it for short bursts before your alternator needs to recharge your battery.

This sort of thing won't be very practical until the new proposed 48 volt standard for cars comes into use.

Mike


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## Sentra_Industies (Oct 31, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> This sort of thing won't be very practical until the new proposed 48 volt standard for cars comes into use.


Ehhh? Excuse me? 48V standard? huh? Where is this in, France?

Whats wrong with 12V? 

Are we going to go back to grouding the positive terminal to the chasis too?

I suppose this is to push the enviromentalist wacko agenda...

Internal Combustion Forever baby!!!! (or at least till I am gone)


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Sentra_Industies said:


> Ehhh? Excuse me? 48V standard? huh? Where is this in, France?
> 
> Whats wrong with 12V?
> 
> ...


No 48 volts is going to allow things like electrical valve acutation, no more cams, can you imagines, stock like idle with race cam top end?

Modern cars have so much electronics in them that its getting to where 12 volts is starting to have a hard time powering it all. If the volts are low, then the amps gotta be high to make the power right? Than means big heavy wires or it means a limit on how powerful eletrical accesories can be due to ohms law V=IxR.

48 volts will allow things like eletrical assisted power steering, electric valve operation, computers in cars, better sterios, perhaps practical electric on demand supercharing. Wire harnesses with be smaller and ligher.

SAE developed the standard, now car makers are going to start adopting it soon. A few cars like some of the new BMW's already have a dual system, 12 volt for the engine and 48 volt for the rest of the car.

Mike


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## Sentra_Industies (Oct 31, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> No 48 volts is going to allow things like electrical valve acutation, no more cams, can you imagines, stock like idle with race cam top end?


More electrical crap to go wrong. What happens when hackers start breaking ito cars from their basements? Dont get me wrong, I am all for advancement, but I totally disaggree with making things more complicated. 

I view this kind of changing standards and just "make work" for mechanics. I dont want a computer controlling everything, they do enough now.



morepower2 said:


> Modern cars have so much electronics in them that its getting to where 12 volts is starting to have a hard time powering it all. If the volts are low, then the amps gotta be high to make the power right? Than means big heavy wires or it means a limit on how powerful eletrical accesories can be due to ohms law V=IxR.


Yeah, most of them unnessasary to the function of the car. Make the electronics more efficient, with miniturization and things like that, there is no need for this stuff to take so much juice. How are you going to create 48 volts, are you gonna carry 4 batteries around?



morepower2 said:


> 48 volts will allow things like eletrical assisted power steering, electric valve operation, computers in cars, better sterios, perhaps practical electric on demand supercharing. Wire harnesses with be smaller and ligher.


NONE of which are nessasary. ALL of which will send the price of cars even higher than they are now. 



morepower2 said:


> SAE developed the standard, now car makers are going to start adopting it soon. A few cars like some of the new BMW's already have a dual system, 12 volt for the engine and 48 volt for the rest of the car.
> 
> Mike


SAE my foot, its a bunch of unemployeed mechanics trying to tell use how our cars should be. These tech schools are churning out so many of these mechanics the market is flooded with these under educated who will be taken advantage by the gready stealership. 

Direct purchase from the company is the future. The dealers are going to loose those huge profits from sales and will have to make it up in over priced service.

Diagnostics is $70 now just to plug into the computer. Thats bullshit, and thats what all this "new fangled crap" is.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Sentra_Industies said:


> More electrical crap to go wrong. What happens when hackers start breaking ito cars from their basements? Dont get me wrong, I am all for advancement, but I totally disaggree with making things more complicated.
> 
> I view this kind of changing standards and just "make work" for mechanics. I dont want a computer controlling everything, they do enough now.
> 
> ...


Well if you are for a cleaner enviornment, want more fuel economy, want better safety and want better performance, then you have to accept more sofisticated controls with more electric power demands.

If we were still back in the points and carburators days, then we would be guzzling gas, choking on smog and not have as much power. Seriously, do you really think its unemployed mechanics lobbying for more complicated cars? Its a combination of governemnt requirments and a more demanding customer.

I guess you had better start hording older cars if you don't accept progress. I know I have gotten a lot of them lately.

Mike


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