# WHat is your brake setup??? AND how do you like it???



## SUPERMAN (Mar 11, 2004)

Im trying to get an i dea of what is a good set of pads and rotors for agressive street use and occational racing. Is it better to have an aggressive pad and a blank rotor or a slotted rotor with a less agressive pad? 

What are you guys running and how do you like the performance?


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## spdracerUT (Jun 11, 2002)

for best performance, get the biggest rotors and calipers you can find. With the larger diameter rotors, they should require less pressure from the caliper to do the same amount of braking work (moment=torque=force x distance). Plus, they generally have more mass and surface area to absorb and reject heat which should help prevent fade. So if you want max braking force and no fade, the only way to go is big rotors and calipers. oh yeah, bigger brakes are generally easier to modulate.

I'd get slotted, and stay away from x-drilled as those crack easier under heavy use. Blanks would be fine too. 

As far as pads go, bigger brakes let you use a less agressive pad (less pressure required, rotors dissipate heat better). concerning racing though... if you do the occasional auto-x, i'd just stick to stock pads. if you're doing a track day, get a dedicated track pad.

it is past 1am so my logic could be flawed


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## B11sleeper (Oct 15, 2003)

cryo treated rotors with slots and creamic pads are really nice.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

SUPERMAN said:


> Im trying to get an i dea of what is a good set of pads and rotors for agressive street use and occational racing. Is it better to have an aggressive pad and a blank rotor or a slotted rotor with a less agressive pad?
> 
> What are you guys running and how do you like the performance?


In all of the street cars I've driven around a track, they used different pads for the street and track. I used to love Axis Metal Matrixes for the street and Axxis Ultimates for light track use. Granted the latter isn't a real track pad, the cars I've driven in the past were well balanced enough so that it didn't warrant going any further for HPDE purposes.

As for dual-purpose pads, the most well-liked ones seem to be: Axxis Ultimates, Hawk HP-Plus, Cobalt GT-Sport, EBC Red Stuff. Unfortunately, I have not tried either the HP-Plus or the GT-Sports so I can't give you my personal opinion on either of those, but if you use either of the others:
1. Brake early if it's your first stop of the morning.
2. Keep a can of brake cleaner handy at all times.

My current setup is Hawk HPS's on stock B14 SER rotors with Motul 5.1. It's pretty decent for city and highway driving, with very little noise, dust, or pad wear, but I wouldn't take it to the track.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

if you plan on doing anything more than auto X and street use, then you're going to need something bigger.
check out www.fastbrakes.com for good affordable brake upgrades. most of the stuff is for honda an nissan, so you're sure to find something in there that's worth doing.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

I have AD22VF calipers and the OEM NX rotors on my sentra with goodrige SS lines on the front only (dealer didn't put on rears and now I can't get it done cheap and don't have the extra 'staff' to do it myself) and KVR semi-metallic pads on the front.
Stock drums, shoes, lines in rear, and stock fluid.

Well stock sucked. Pushing the brake pedal used to make the car lean forward and tell the car you desire a desceleration, but you didn't always get it. Plus they always locked.

Now they don't lock at all. The hotter the pads get the better the feel. The car stops shorter and the pedal is much firmer. But there is still a slight squish at the bottom of the pedal throw. This is probably the MC and probably some air in the brake fluid.
It took a while to get them bedded, but once they did they stopped the car great. Over time the grabbyness died, but I liked them grabby.

Suspension has been and still is stock.

I've also changed tires from Pirelli HP, to Dunlop DS-1 snow, and now michelin XGT-H4. The lean was most noticeable in the pirelli's. The ds1 were just overall weaker pavement tires, but they aren't designed for dry pavement (in snow it was actually difficult to handbrake turn a corner because the car didn't want to slide). The michelins have more grip but a softer sidewall so there is squirm in the tires and less lean but the car stops shorter.

When the brakes were cold before the first 1000 miles they didn't really stop the car so well until the pads got warm. This stopped as they broke in. But initial brakeing is weaker and mushier (almost like stock) until a few stop signs when they get some temperature in them. The same effect goes for my metal masters on my old acura. 

If you get the pads real hot, like reapeated 60-0 stops the pedal gets fantastically sensitive and the brakes act like a reverse gas pedal. Of course they rarely get this hot, but after some goofy traffic on the highway they get like this. Then you can freak people out and do late stops (which I don't because my old brakes were so bad I'm 'conditioned' to think that the car won't slow down and now stop early of the car in front of me) at intersections and the car will just desist its motion.

Seth


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## SUPERMAN (Mar 11, 2004)

So you would not recommend AXXIS Ultimates or HP + pads for daily driving?

Whay are these not good for daily driving? Is it just because of rotor wear and dust?

Do the axxis ultimate and or the hp+ require heating up before they work ? Or
do they basically work when you first start out?


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

SUPERMAN said:


> So you would not recommend AXXIS Ultimates or HP + pads for daily driving?
> 
> Whay are these not good for daily driving? Is it just because of rotor wear and dust?
> 
> ...


Ultimates and HP Pluses work fine on the street for most people. I just don't like using them around town because their heat range is a bit too high for cold weather driving. The first stop in the morning is also going to be longer than you expect. Because the pads are more aggressive, it's also going to generate a lot more brake dust around town (be prepared to clean your wheels and rotors frequently). But you really can't do much better with dual purpose track/street pads. If you don't do that much racing and you want a good pad that you can drive to, at, and home from the track, they are pretty damn good.

If you want the best of both worlds, you're going to have to get two sets of pads (one for street, one for track). If you're willing to compromise, Ultimates and HP+'s are good options.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Dust is only an issue if you never clean your rims or if they are a color other than the dust.
So if you clean your car every 2 weeks or just spray it with the hose and use a wheel cleaner dust is a non-issue.

Temperature is an issue. Don't worry about the names 'street' and 'track'. Worry about how hot the brakes have to be for them to work properly.
So a low temp track pad is better than a high temp street pad. Not that there would be such a thing. (remember though low and high are relative)
Otherwise you'll have to ride the brakes when you first start your car to get them up to temp and thats not such a good idea.

Seth

P.S. I locked my fronts yesterday for the first time and again thismorning. Yestarday they were warm and today they were cold. It was in a borderline panic stop on the highway avoiding accident rubberneck traffic. The guy in front stopped short, and my real fear was the screeching of the tires of the car behind me because i didn't want to become a sandwitch. Only a slight chirp for a second at the last minute, no screeching. Both from like 50-0 in a very short time. Good news was that after those stops the brakes were super sentive afterwards so there isn't a repeat performance.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

sethwas said:


> So a low temp track pad is better than a high temp street pad. Not that there would be such a thing. (remember though low and high are relative)
> Otherwise you'll have to ride the brakes when you first start your car to get them up to temp and thats not such a good idea.


See, the nice thing about Hawk and Cobalt friction is that they operating temperature and coefficient of friction, so it doesn't all have to be relative. Axxis will give you their info too if you nag them.


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## SUPERMAN (Mar 11, 2004)

Ok dust is not a big deal to me. I work for bmw so i know about some dusty ass brakes. Noise is also not a huge factor to me either . I mean i dont want a screaming eagle in my ear at every stop but a little noise is no biggie. Now rotor wear is to be expected but i dont want to be changing rotors at every other oil change either.

So are the hawk hp+ and the axxis ultimate pads going to tear up my rotors and are they the kind of pads that need warming up or are they just ready to go first thing in the morning?

Im in south florida and were approaching summer so i doubt the temperatures will be any lower than mid 70's in the morning.

Also can someone give me an idea of how much cobalt pads go for? I went to their wbsite and checked out the dealers they listed but i was unable to find any prices.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

SUPERMAN said:


> So are the hawk hp+ and the axxis ultimate pads going to tear up my rotors and are they the kind of pads that need warming up or are they just ready to go first thing in the morning?
> 
> Im in south florida and were approaching summer so i doubt the temperatures will be any lower than mid 70's in the morning.


With Ultimates, the first stop from a cold start has almost always been longer than the other stops, even during warmer weather. Similar deal with Red Stuff (though not quite as noticable). I'd expect the same out of the Hawk and Cobalt Friction pads as the operating temperatures start near the same point. Unless you're the type of person that likes to rev it to redline as you go up the street from your house, you won't have any problems.

You will experience more rotor wear than with softer street pads, mostly when it's cold. They won't shred your rotors every 3000 miles or anything though, so you don't have too much to worry about.

As for pricing on the Cobalt Friction pads, email them and ask. If I remember correctly the GT-Sport fronts were around $75 for my car, but you're best off getting the pricing directly from them.


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