# Serious Turbo Help Needed Please



## steve o (Jan 27, 2005)

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to your forum, and actually new to to the Nissan Tuner world. I have played with Honda's in the past but I'm building a car for my son and need a little direction.

Ok, today 1/26/05 I bought a pair of 1996 Nissan 200SX SE's. One is an automatic the other is a stick, obviously I want to build the 5 spd car and use the automatic car for parts. All night tonight I have scowered the net looking for a turbo kit for the GA16DE, and honestly if I'm going to spend $3000 on a Hotshot kit, I might as well swap out the motor and throw a Bluebird in it?....Is that a correct assumption?

My original intention was to put a turbo kit on the existing motor, pull the motor out of the automatic car build it to handle the turbo then swap then swap out the motors and boost away on the fresh motor. What I'm finding out is the cost of the turbo kits for the GA16DE are over priced. 

First off, can a Bluebird motor go into a 1996 200SX SE? and if so what other parts will I need to complete the swap?

Second, Are the any other options of turbo kits out there that have been tested and proven OTHER than the Hotshot kit?

Thanks in Advance....Steve
[email protected]


----------



## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

$3000 for a turbo kit isn't overpriced. Look at the market much?

No, the Hotshot is the only proven, complete kit for the GA16DE.


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Which is likely why it costs so much. No competition..... In any case $3000 for a turbo and all the supporting hardware isn't a bad deal.


----------



## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

but if you have the money and know how i would think the blue bird swap would be better in the long run. is this your kids first car? how old is he? i dont think a kid just starting to drive should have a really fast car, i would start him off with ther I/H/E route then go turbo later on. i am 18 and if i had a turbo car to begin with i would not be makeing this post to you, hell i almost killed my self in a 90whp slug! start him off right


----------



## Nuskool (Jan 5, 2004)

Its not just 3000 either...its 4,200 on www.hotshot.com plus another 500 + for the ECU..Then you have install.. 

There are some other routes...You could build it custom using the protech manifold and so on..


----------



## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

uh huh, but in his best interest, he doesn't know anything about turbochargers, probably not a whole lot about his engine either, so I am definitely NOT recommending he piece his own kit together.


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Nuskool said:


> Its not just 3000 either...its 4,200 on www.hotshot.com plus another 500 + for the ECU..Then you have install..


That's just way too much........ *shakes head*

For $4700 I could build the living snot out of my VG30 and make well over 600 Hp....


----------



## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

uh huh, but you have a factory turbo car built for power.

we're talking a GA16DE here. not exactly a muscle engine.


----------



## steve o (Jan 27, 2005)

Hello Again,

Ok thus far I have read all your posts and I came up with a few other scenario's after doing some more research today. I found a TSI Superior kit for like $1300, if I add the Jim Wolf ECU for $400, a front mount IC $200, and like a boost gauge...I'm in it for under $2000 installing it myself. Even if I had to buy a MAF for what? $200 used?...it is still better than buying the hotshot kit. 

I'am turbo familiar and as a daily driver I drive a 930 Turbo (Porsche), and believe me I know what they cost when they break and I usually save myself the money and wrench it myself. I'm not looking to build my son a drag car, just something he can have a little fun with and smoke a few Honda's that are here in town. Trust me I wouldnt be doing this for him if he wasnt responsible and if I didnt think he was ready for it. 

The long and the short is the car (1996 200SX SE) alone isnt worth $3000 in prestine condition. You can buy one on ebay for under $1500 all day long. With that in mind, why in the world would I, or anyone else for that matter drop $4000 plus in a car worth $1500-$2000 at best?

Anyways, sorry to ramble on but please give me your opinion on going with the TSI Superior kit and so on as described above....BTW I know it has a T-20 turbo that sucks, but it will do an extra 70hp which is good enough...

Thanks Again, Steve


----------



## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

there is a thread 3-4 down on that kit. T20 turbo is a piece of crap. don't waste your money.


----------



## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

ok you obviously have not searched AT ALL because the talk about the TSI kit is only 2 below your thread. or click here


chimmike said:


> there is a thread 3-4 down on that kit. T20 turbo is a piece of crap. don't waste your money.


^your to kinda mike........in fact it is only 2 threads down! you get no more help until you search  then when you have more unanswerd questions please, by all means, ask! :cheers:

1.6L hotshot turbo'd 200sx se 

go here for everything you will need to know about the sentra/200sx 
^once you have read those ask us any questions you may have


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

chimmike said:


> uh huh, but you have a factory turbo car built for power.
> 
> we're talking a GA16DE here. not exactly a muscle engine.


 Yeah, but if he put $4k in the internals, that'd be one killer engine. Heck, my engine is all cast internals SOHC old tech...... Takes money to make a good motor, is all I'm saying. But personally, $4000 for a 70-100 Hp gain is not a very good deal. It's only my opinion, though.


----------



## steve o (Jan 27, 2005)

chimmike,

I didnt see the other thread about the TSI kit.....I'll go back and read it....Actually one of the guys at JCY Custom or JGY Cutoms told me about it when I told him I didnt want to spend $4 G's. 

[email protected],

I agree $4-G's for 70-100 hp gain is a rip off, which is why I'm trying to do it cheaper....

I know the TSI kit sucks, but is sucks because of the T-20 Turbo....So imagine this....I buy and install the TSI kit, add an intercooler, the Jim Wolf ECU....ALL that out the door is around $2000, or $2300 shipping and all....Later on down the road when the T-20 burns out I can always have a t3/t4 flange welded onto the turbo manifold, change the wastegate setting and run more boost with a bigger turbo.

The point is upgrading the T-20 turbo later is still cheaper all together than buying a Hot shot kit now, dont you think? Why should I pay more for the hotshot "hard parts" ie: Manifold, piping, and so on....It seems the only major difference in the TSI vs. Hotshot kits are the turbo sizes, since no matter what I will have to buy the Jim Wolf ECU anyway. Just a thought..

Steve


----------



## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

steve o said:


> I agree $4-G's for 70-100 hp gain is a rip off, which is why I'm trying to do it cheaper....
> 
> 
> Steve


the gain on the hotshot kit is far more than 70-100 HP granted i dont think its worth it still (i only have a CAI and dont plan on anything else because i dont think it is a worth while car. instead i plan on buying an sr powerd sentra or a completly differant car idk. but instead of buying 2 ga 200's you should have bought one se-r and been done with it (adding a few mods like exhaust and what not)


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

1.6pete said:


> the gain on the hotshot kit is far more than 70-100 HP granted i dont think its worth it still (i only have a CAI and dont plan on anything else because i dont think it is a worth while car. instead i plan on buying an sr powerd sentra or a completly differant car idk. but instead of buying 2 ga 200's you should have bought one se-r and been done with it (adding a few mods like exhaust and what not)


It's not a question of what the turbo kit is capable of, it's more a question of what the engine internals can handle.....


----------



## steve o (Jan 27, 2005)

When you look at it this way....

I bought the 2 Sentra 200SX SE's both for $500....thats a deal...They both are in excellent shape, paint is really nice and so on...

I actually JUST opened the hood of the "automatic" SE today and found that it had a header with a full header back exhaust system, a Stillen Strut tower bar, a vey nice intake, looks like injectors have been upgraded....but i cant fully read the sticker on them....

Now all I have to do is pull the motor out of the auto, and throw it in the 5 spd car...turbo and I'm ready to go...

But for $500 for 2 cars, yah I have room to spend a little on a turbo system, but I'm not throwing $4-G's at a turbo kit....


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

For oen thing, the turbo in that kit is big enough to make 350 Hp. You'll never use anywhere near that much of it's potential on that engine, plus it's a ball bearing turbo, which makes it a bit expensive for that application..... A T25/ 28 would be more than big enough to boost that small engine to the headgasket blowing/rod throwing point. I never have understood these kit makers and why they love including turbos far too big for the engine in question to use the full potential of. If it was a high performance engine with a lot of potential, sure. But a GA16DE? Give me a break. 
However, unless you are familar with all the parts required for the upgrade, and where else you can get them, it seems to be the only way to go........


----------



## James (Apr 29, 2002)

Well Wes is already making 250whp on the stock block so I don't see why the HS turbo is considered excessive for the GA16DE... I believe Mike K. himself had a hand in developing the kit.


----------



## Nuskool (Jan 5, 2004)

For cheap turbo kit...

Protech Manifold-500
Custom Piping-200
Used 370 injectors-100
JWT ECU-400
Oil lines-100
Used Intercooler-100
Used T25-150
DSM BOV-30
All other Misc parts (Gaskets, fittings, couplers, bolts)-175

Anyways it would be a much better way to spend 2,000 IMO
It would also make more HP


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

James said:


> Well Wes is already making 250whp on the stock block so I don't see why the HS turbo is considered excessive for the GA16DE... I believe Mike K. himself had a hand in developing the kit.


Then why would you strap a big turbo (not to mention a ball bearing unit) to an engine that will never be able to use it's full potential without at least some internal mods....... Somewhat akin to strapping a T62 to the side of a B16, is it really necessary? Somebody should make a small kit for guys that just want 50-80 Hp over stock and not much more.


----------



## Nuskool (Jan 5, 2004)

I listed a way to do that...

And the reason no one will make a kit like that is because people who drive GA's are cheap.... They want to go fast but dont want to spend over 200 to do it...Why should someone ivest time and money into something that no one will buy...


----------



## himbo (Sep 20, 2003)

hey steve o, wlecome! i'm going turbo on my GA16DE, and i'm doing it custom, as in i get the parts individually. anyway, forget the tsi, right now check out the group buys sect. for a guy whos offering manifolds from melbourne aus. i think it was like $370. as for a turbo, get a t-28 new for about $500, its great turbo off of a nissan silvia (from ahem... ebay b/c they do have good things every now and then). also, check out the fully reprogrammable jim wolf ECU from the Group Buys sect for $475 (i dont know where you got the $400 price). get apr head studs, cometics gaskets, and your car should run very safe and reliable. also check ebay for spearco intercoolers, you dont nees anything big, otherwise you might lose some boost. our GA's run low compression and have strong bottom ends, and we have small bores, and long strokes, perfect for turbo applications. trust me, 200whp (~10psi) on a 2300lb (+or-) car is incredible power. roughly 10lbs/hp.

btw, i'm not sure if you wanna go with a t3/t4 setup, its a great turbo, but its too big for such a small engine, you'll have crazy lag. 

GOOD LUCK AND KEEP US POSTED :thumbup:


----------



## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

the turbo in the hs kit is not that big of a turbo. it is still t2 flanged & being ball bearing it will spool just as quick as a t28 w/ standard bearing setup. it will also make a little more power at the same boost levels and keep the intake temps down a little also. i would say that is the perfect turbo for a ga16, turbo could be fine on a stock motor and also has plenty of room if you want to build the motor to handle it. the tsi kit looks like junk to me, turbo is too small, will create more heat, that combined with ancient & sloppy fuel managment technology like is used on this setup spells disaster. also, anyone that would consider this kit, will probably end up blowing the enigne anyway if they don't understand tuning. like you said with the jwt ecu it will run ok but it doens't have the quality of parts as the hotshot. i would piece together my own kit if i were you. how bout this idea, sell both of the 200's and buy him an se-r, then put the money into that car, he will be happier and with boost it is a little more reliable.


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Nuskool said:


> I listed a way to do that...
> 
> And the reason no one will make a kit like that is because people who drive GA's are cheap.... They want to go fast but dont want to spend over 200 to do it...Why should someone ivest time and money into something that no one will buy...


Then why make a $4200 turbo kit.......


----------



## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Why not make one??? The problem here isn;t the price of the kit. It's the people who are not willing to spend the money. Honestly I don't know why this always comes up.. You are either willing to spend it or you are not. If you are not that's totally cool, just don't complain about the price. 

FWIW the turbo size in the GA16 kit is perfect for response and power potential. My car made 249WHp on a Hot SHot based turbo setup, you cannot do better for the $$$. 

If you want a cheaper manfold option JGS precision turbo sells a manifold starter kit that will get you started. Then piece the rest otgether yourself. Just make sure the fuel management portion is done correctly.


----------



## Mr SEntra (Oct 7, 2002)

Nuskool said:


> For cheap turbo kit...
> 
> Protech Manifold-500
> Custom Piping-200
> ...


That seems like a very good budget kit right there! I do, however agree with Wes. It's really all about supply and demand. Demand is NOT as high as everyone would like it, but believe me, I wish it was so our community could save a little cash flow. Sometimes you get what you pay for, so if you go with something proven that might be some cash out of pocket initially, you'll be happy in the long run, especially if the cars are in pretty good condition. Have fun with your decision steve-o!


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

wes said:


> Why not make one??? The problem here isn;t the price of the kit. It's the people who are not willing to spend the money. Honestly I don't know why this always comes up.. You are either willing to spend it or you are not. If you are not that's totally cool, just don't complain about the price.
> 
> FWIW the turbo size in the GA16 kit is perfect for response and power potential. My car made 249WHp on a Hot SHot based turbo setup, you cannot do better for the $$$.
> 
> If you want a cheaper manfold option JGS precision turbo sells a manifold starter kit that will get you started. Then piece the rest otgether yourself. Just make sure the fuel management portion is done correctly.


 Thats the whole thing. There should be a "supporting mods" kit, but with mani options to basically let people choose their own turbo. Some people know how much boost they want to run, within reason, but not about the fuel requirements....


----------



## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Thats the whole thing. There should be a "supporting mods" kit, but with mani options to basically let people choose their own turbo. Some people know how much boost they want to run, within reason, but not about the fuel requirements....


I understand the stage kit. The only issue with that is exactly what you just suggested, someone does not know the fuel requirements and is not sure what the heck they are doing. This is the logic HS used to design a kit that is truly plug and play! 

I actually did not buy the entire kit from HS, I bought the piping/manifold kit they offered a while back. I am not sure if HS will still sell those components individually or not, but if one was serious about it they could contact HS directly.


----------



## James (Apr 29, 2002)

That's the same thing I did. I think they stopped doing that though but it may be worth checking in with them.


----------

