# Skyline - N/A or Turbo, Heavy or Light?



## Lurker Above (Apr 21, 2003)

i can't remember if it was scourge or thenissangod that mentioned the 'hakosuka', the early '70s skyline gt-r with the 2.0 liter dohc n/a (three carbs in a row?), and i know why that gt-r has its nearly cult following. what is it, something like 10,000rpm redline? or is that just the tach limit? and the brassy exhaust note is unmatched, or so some say  

from reading fan books and speaking with drivers, i found that these enthusiasts eschew supercharging, almost detest it, and say the feel of the n/a twin cam 24 valve is the most natural. i've seen pics of these engines, some with six chrome individual venturied intake cups instead of a manifold. i get the feeling these hakosuka afficionados are akin to the '60s ponycar set here in the states  

when they first introduced the larger-than-2.0-liter n/a engines in the r33 series, many drivers liked their feel better than turbo engines even though they were less powerful than the mighty rb26dett. they touted the smooth power curve, unlike the unnatural lag-and-spike many turbos suffered from. i've gone through the boy-racer stage myself where the punch of a turbo felt good...but i have to admit i kinda miss that turbo whine 

anecdote: turbo mania in japan got so out of hand that someone finally went out and made a turbo sound generator. that's right, an underhood megaphone with a computer chip generating a digitized turbo whine, complete with blowoff valve effects, tied into the tach so it would sound authentic. i hear it sold well to toyota and honda owners with turbo-envy 

one other factoid about skylines we probably already knew: they have traditionally been built light. my old '84 turbo was a luxury passage model with velour cloth lining, and even then closing the doors was an underwhelming experience. the b15 sentra has more substantial doors...when i used to close the skyline's doors, it would make a hollow metallic 'bink' sound (wouldn't pass any side impact standard for sure). the result was a 182 inch long sport sedan that weighed 2,800 pounds dripping wet

so, the question is...for skyline fans, with nissan pushing an all n/a lineup in a substantially heavier platform, which do they prefer in a skyline? a smaller displacement n/a like the s20 in a lightweight platform, a smaller displacement turbo like the rb20det in a lightweight, a larger displacement n/a like the current v35 series, or a turbo large displacement in a heavy?

Lurker Above


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## StraightSix (Oct 24, 2002)

Well I think the purest driving experience is always going to be had in a lightweight car with a light, free-revving, normally aspirated engine. Cars like the Lotus Elise, Lotus/Caterham 7, new Toyota MR2, etc. However a well designed turbo engine in a lightweight car will be a close second, preferred by some (maybe most) just because of superior power. Lotus Esprit or S15 Silvia comes to mind here. But for most of us, we use our cars for more than just hooning around a track, so some comfort is needed. And the more of that you add, the more weight you have, the more power is required to lug it around. Thus ending up with cars like the Mercedes S600 with its twin-turbo V12  Right now I'm driving a 1st gen RX-7, which comes closest to the first ideal - light, rev-happy n/a engine, very direct feel (except for the steering which is horrid). It does wear a bit thin on longer drives.

For the Skyline, it should be an ultra-high-performance GT car, implying a considerable degree of creature comforts, so the weight will be on the high side. Something like 3500lb with a biggish turbo motor, like a VQ33DETT. Oddly enough that's pretty much what we'll get  But something like that is NOT meant for track use, at least not as stock, not the way an Elise for example is.

Thought to ponder - a normally aspirated engine is just a turbo engine with never-ending lag 

Cheers

J


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## gtr33 (Apr 15, 2003)

i think the current setup on the GTR is the best. unfortunately they had to switch to a V engine cos of emission problems. personally, i'd prefer the turbo on an engine which displaces over 2 liters. this would reduce lag considerably, unless u're running huge turbos, but huge turbos aren't meant for track, more for drag.
another thing to note is that the GTR was always released to provide driving pleasure, which means a certain level of comfort plus performance to boot, n i dun think Nissan's going to change this motto.
being heavy is due mostly to the engine's weight and there is no escape if u're going to use a big engine. if u're going to hoon around a track on weekends, i'm sure u'll find the Skyline competent enough to handle that. if u wanna be competitive in races, then u wouldn't be driving that car around daily would u?
and another thing about lag, on a track, u'd be sitting high enough in the revs constantly, so there's no worries there. if u're driving around town, y would u worry about lag unless u're into those traffic light launches?? but then again if u noe how to launch a turbo car properly, how will it lag??
thought to ponder - how does an N.A. produce the instant surge a turbo does?? i'm sure the response is better, but nothing beats the feeling of u sinking back into the chair as the turbos start spooling...


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2003)

With a competitive race car/daily driver turbo, I would just suppose shift while u lag. Say the turbo knocks at 4000 rpm, shift at 3500 rpm. Push urself to be 1 exact shift  . Adressing ur question of properly launching a turbo car would be that: Lauch just before turbo spool to prevent as much lag as possible and utelize the turbo through the rest of the rpm line.

Twin turboz for that matter prevent most lag u feel...Still enough to know ur packin heat, but just senchronized.

Original topic: I prefer a heavier car like the R34 with a beffy motor... a much more solid feel.


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## areitu (Jan 15, 2003)

In Best Motoring Vol 5, there's a girl tuner who builds an NA Skyline reminescent of the Hakosuka. It uses a lower RB with an RB26 crank and six individual throttle bodies.


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## Nizmodore (May 9, 2003)

> when they first introduced the larger-than-2.0-liter n/a engines in the r33 series,


Well there is the 4 Door and station wagon R31 Skylines you forgot about which came with a 3 Litre n/a engine, the RB30E...The RB30E is a great engine having owned 2 cars with it under the bonnet (both cars were not Nissian Skylines, but VL Commodores...one had a RB30ET which was never used in any Nissian car  ) Its a very smooth and responsive unit.....you should try and drive a sport version of the R31 with good suspension and a RB30E....very nice feel!

I don't see the problem with supercharging.....superchargers are just as efficient as turbos, and draw the same amount of power out of an engine to run (oh yes it does!) and no lag. I'm currnetly building a Supercharged RB30E for my Commodore...just to fix up the top end airflow issues that plauge N/A RB engines (grunty down low, nothing up top....oh and a 75mm XF throttle body to help along the way insead of the stock 45mm unit!)


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