# 2006 X-Trail dCi turbo diesel shuddering problem (Fixed? well maybe not...)



## Andy M (Jan 10, 2006)

My Jan 2006 X-Trail Aventura dCi engine is occasionally "shuddering" when cruising on the motorway or driving around town. The effect is like taking your foot off the accelerator quickly and putting it back on again.

I have had it back at the dealer, who say they are unable to reproduce the problem. It now seems to be getting worse, and more frequent (this weekend I drove 400 miles and it happened approximately every 20 minutes). It did not start happening until I had the car for about 2 weeks.

I am told on another forum that this is a problem with the European emissions control in the 2006 X-trail and that there may be a recall coming from Nissan shortly.

Has anyone else experienced this problem, and what has your dealer said/done about it? Please let me know. thanks.

Andy


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## Andy M (Jan 10, 2006)

An update. The problem has been identified. I have a copy of a Nissan tech bulletin dated 24th April 2006. No fix yet as far as I know, the tech bulletin is going to be updated when the fix is available.

The problem is described as hesitation on overrun between 2000 and 2400 rpm with Euro step 4 dCi engines. Most pronounced in 5th/6th gear. It is caused by an incorrect calibration of the EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) - operating at the wrong frequency, and to prove that the problem is caused by this, the garage has to drive the vehicle around without the EGR connected to see if the hesitation goes away.

Nissan are working on "electronic countermeasures" in the ECU to deal with the problem. I suspect this is a fancy word for a bug fix to the computer... At the end of the tech bulletin it says that customers should be assured that no damage is being caused to the engine by the problem.

If you are experiencing this problem and want to see it fixed sooner than later, may I suggest you write to Nissan GB customer services expressing your deep displeasure and ask what they are going to do about it. The more of us who write the faster the fix will come. I just hope the fix does not come at the expense of performance or fuel consumption...

Andy


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## iXi Germany (Jun 6, 2006)

Well............I have met somebody who has the new 06 Model but is very displeased with the fuel consumption (more than 10 liter / 100 km)

but I wish you the best 

greetings
Bjoern


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

I have exactly the same car bought in Jan 2006. It has the same problem that you describe. The dealer acknowledges that there is a shudder/hesitation, but tried to convince me that it was a "characteristic" [my word] and said that there was nothing he could do until the orange "engine symbol" illumiated on the instrument panel indicating that a fault had been registered in the management system. I called another dealer who said that he believed one of his demonstrators was showing the same symptoms. I am taling my car there in the next few days so that we can verify that we have the same problem. I am now composing a letter to Nissan UK. I'll keep you posted.


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

My car also has lousy fuel economy. I am averaging 29 mpg or 10.2 km/l or 10 l/ 102 km. Again the dealer showed no interest. He said that I am lucky because some owners are getting less than 20 mpg. I hope that the software fix for the judder also fixes the mpg!!


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## Andy M (Jan 10, 2006)

Andy M said:


> An update. The problem has been identified. I have a copy of a Nissan tech bulletin dated 24th April 2006. No fix yet as far as I know, the tech bulletin is going to be updated when the fix is available.


A follow up to my own post while I have the tech bulletin in front of me. 

The reference number is TB EC 06/02 issued 24th April 2006.
VIN JN1TENT30U0300000 onwards are affected.
Thats T30 Diesel models with YD22DDT Euro Step 4 engines.


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## Sulphur man (Sep 6, 2005)

I've been complaining about the way my diesel drives since 1000 miles. I've now done 8.5K! Whilst it isn't the same symptom, and my chassis is older, I thought you might be interested to know that I have narrowed it down to the egr valve sticking open. (so has my local diesel specialist).

I have a theory that the egr valves on these engines are a 'dodgy' french design....


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## wmcdonaldd (Jun 13, 2006)

*X-Trail Hesitation*

 I've got the same problem on my March 2006 DCI, my dealer tells me that he has several customers in the same boat - After some hard talking Nissan have provided me with a replacement vehicle until the fix is here from Japan which I am told is imminent! - Customer services said yesterday (June 13) that they had received a 10 day notification from Japan early last week, implying that the fix would be here this week.


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## Gilbert Cunningham (Jun 18, 2006)

My May 06 Aventura dCi is suffering the same " stuttering " problem, just about to complain to the dealer.
My old model 02 X-trail also suffered similar problems but I think it was a dodgy fuel pump


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

I've had mine just 10 days (June 06) and also noticed the problem. Been trying to find how to reproduce it so as to prove it to the dealer. 

Seems to happen at 2200 rpm on over-run in 5th/6th but with the throttle just a touch open. It's not major but comes unexpected so a bit disconcerting in a new car. Glad I found this thread as I envisaged months of going back and forward to the dealer for a minor problem and getting the old 'we couldn't find anything sir' scenario. Isn't the internet wonderful - doesn't fix the problem but nice to have company.  

Has anyone had the problem sorted yet?


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

I have received a reply from Nissan GB that acknowledges the fault and assures me that a fix is being developed. I am recommended to keep in touch with my supplying dealer.


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## Andy M (Jan 10, 2006)

qzx372 said:


> I have received a reply from Nissan GB that acknowledges the fault and assures me that a fix is being developed. I am recommended to keep in touch with my supplying dealer.


I wrote to Nissan GB again two weeks ago and have not received a reply yet! When you wrote in did you mention the apparently poor fuel consumption?

Andy


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

Andy M said:


> I wrote to Nissan GB again two weeks ago and have not received a reply yet! When you wrote in did you mention the apparently poor fuel consumption?
> 
> Andy


No, I didn't discuss poor fuel consumption with Nissan GB. The service department that verified the fault as being the same as their demonstrator believed that the changes to the software to correct the hesitation/judder should resolve the problem with poor mpg. He agreed that 29-30 mpg on average was poor for this engine.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

What sort of driving is that 29 mpg based on QZ?

I've still done less than 600 miles so a tad short on data but seemed to be getting about 32 mpg and now 35 mpg on last fill-up. About two thirds of that was cruising at 70-80 and the rest mostly short urban stuff. I'm still running-in so driving fairly gently. What do others expect to get? Assume I should get more as it loosens up.


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## Andy M (Jan 10, 2006)

Has anyone heard any more about this hesitation/EGR problem? I have had absolutely no reply from Nissan Motors GB, despite writing to them ages ago. I am going to send them another letter!!


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## wmcdonaldd (Jun 13, 2006)

Andy M said:


> Has anyone heard any more about this hesitation/EGR problem? I have had absolutely no reply from Nissan Motors GB, despite writing to them ages ago. I am going to send them another letter!!


I spoke with my Dealer and Nissan yesterday (July 12) Nissan told me that they were still waiting for news from Japan but that there would be compensation for owners affected (although they did'nt know what form this would take). The Dealer Principal said he'd raised the matter again the previous day and had been told that a fix was imminent (I tend to think he was just saying words that he thought I wanted to hear!). In the meantime I've written to the Telegraph and to What Car.


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## wmcdonaldd (Jun 13, 2006)

wmcdonaldd said:


> I spoke with my Dealer and Nissan yesterday (July 12) Nissan told me that they were still waiting for news from Japan but that there would be compensation for owners affected (although they did'nt know what form this would take). The Dealer Principal said he'd raised the matter again the previous day and had been told that a fix was imminent (I tend to think he was just saying words that he thought I wanted to hear!). In the meantime I've written to the Telegraph and to What Car.


Forgot to ask:- Does anyone know whether the vehicles currently on display & being sold have the same problem?


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

wmcdonaldd said:


> Forgot to ask:- Does anyone know whether the vehicles currently on display & being sold have the same problem?


I assume they are. I took delivery last month, well after they issued the bulletin, and it's affected.

Spoke to my dealer today and they're still waiting for a fix. I'll write to Nissan, tonight. Not happy being sold a car they'd long known would be faulty and taking too long to fix.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

PS.

Which address are people using? Nissan Customer Support Centre, Nissan Motor (GB) Limited, The Rivers Office Park, Denham Way, Rickmansworth, Herts WD3 9YS?

Also, is Carlos Ghosn still CEO and any one know his address?


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

Andy M said:


> Has anyone heard any more about this hesitation/EGR problem? I have had absolutely no reply from Nissan Motors GB, despite writing to them ages ago. I am going to send them another letter!!


I was going to pose the same question to the forum. Other than receiving an acknowledgement from Nissan that there is a problem I haven't received any update. I will call the dealer on Monday


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## wmcdonaldd (Jun 13, 2006)

Still no response from Nissan, I've contacted Ray Castle from What Car who has spoken to Nissan and been told that a fix is being developed. There are a number of disenchanted owners now showing on the What Car website ( http://www.whatcar.com/car-review-readers.aspx?MA=29&RT=356&Submit1=GO ), but so far as I can see no one has had a direct response from Nissan. One guy is advocating Watchdog as a way forward - I tend to agree.
Has anyone had or heard of any further developments?


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## Andy M (Jan 10, 2006)

I have reported this issue to watchdog as suggested.

Please, if you are experiencing the same problem, let watchdog know. My view is that Nissan are messing us about and should let us know what is happening, and when they are going to fix it. My dealer is claiming that nobody else has the problem with the X-trail at the dealership, which is strange, as its a large Nissan dealership. Does anyone here have a 2006 dci Xtrail (Euro step 4 diesel engine) and does NOT have the problem?

Andy


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

Andy M said:


> I have reported this issue to watchdog as suggested.
> 
> Please, if you are experiencing the same problem, let watchdog know. My view is that Nissan are messing us about and should let us know what is happening, and when they are going to fix it. My dealer is claiming that nobody else has the problem with the X-trail at the dealership, which is strange, as its a large Nissan dealership. Does anyone here have a 2006 dci Xtrail (Euro step 4 diesel engine) and does NOT have the problem?
> 
> Andy


I have been receiving replies from Nissan Customer Service. Their latest letter dated 3 Aug 2006 informs me that "recent testing on the EGR unit has proved encouraging and a solution should be released imminently". In the event that the fix is not forthcoming - where do I contact Watchdog?


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## wmcdonaldd (Jun 13, 2006)

qzx372 said:


> I have been receiving replies from Nissan Customer Service. Their latest letter dated 3 Aug 2006 informs me that "recent testing on the EGR unit has proved encouraging and a solution should be released imminently". In the event that the fix is not forthcoming - where do I contact Watchdog?


Encouraging to hear that you have had a response from Nissan, I've been chasing them since May and to date the communications have been all one way! Who did you write to?
Contact Watchdog at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio/watchdog/contact_transport.shtml
also it might be worth posting a review of progress on the What Car website under readers reviews. 
As I said previosly Ray Castle, a Journalist from What Car is on the case and is likely to do a piece for the magazine - he can be contacted at 
[email protected] 
so he might be worth an email to make you views known.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

qzx372 said:


> I have been receiving replies from Nissan Customer Service. Their latest letter dated 3 Aug 2006 informs me that "recent testing on the EGR unit has proved encouraging and a solution should be released imminently". In the event that the fix is not forthcoming - where do I contact Watchdog?


I had a reply to my letter a couple of weeks ago. (The plonkers hadn't stamped their letter so I had to collect from the PO and pay the postage plus £1 fee.) They said they'd passed it to a Customer Support Manager.

Heard nothing more so phoned on the 4th. No-one knew who the mysterious "Support Manager" was and we agreed he didn't exist. They then claimed there was a fix and it just needed to go through the emission tests - which is slightly different to the story you got the day before. I asked for confirmation in writing which was promised but hasn't been received.

Also slightly concerned that the "fix" could affect performance or MPG.


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## Andy M (Jan 10, 2006)

Newsflash! I have just been called by my Nissan dealer.

They have an engine management system software fix for my car, and want me to take it in, with both keys. I have it booked in for Wednesday 16th August. I will report back my experiences after the software update...

Fingers crossed...

Andy


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## wmcdonaldd (Jun 13, 2006)

Andy M said:


> Newsflash! I have just been called by my Nissan dealer.
> 
> They have an engine management system software fix for my car, and want me to take it in, with both keys. I have it booked in for Wednesday 16th August. I will report back my experiences after the software update...
> 
> ...


Same here - I got an email from What Car telling me that the dealer had the fix & then 10 minutes later the dealer called me! I've just collected the "fixed" car & fingers crossed all seems OK! I'll keep you posted.........


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## Andy M (Jan 10, 2006)

wmcdonaldd said:


> Same here - I got an email from What Car telling me that the dealer had the fix & then 10 minutes later the dealer called me! I've just collected the "fixed" car & fingers crossed all seems OK! I'll keep you posted.........


Excellent. I am particularly interested in any improvement in fuel economy. My car currently does on average 360-380 miles on one tank of fuel (50L). Thats 30-32mpg, which is pretty appalling. I am looking for at least 400 miles on one tank. This is mostly motorway driving.


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

wmcdonaldd said:


> Same here - I got an email from What Car telling me that the dealer had the fix & then 10 minutes later the dealer called me! I've just collected the "fixed" car & fingers crossed all seems OK! I'll keep you posted.........


Can you give us any update on the effectiveness of the "fix". Has the problem gone away? Has there been a noticeable improvement in the mpg?


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## Andy M (Jan 10, 2006)

qzx372 said:


> Can you give us any update on the effectiveness of the "fix". Has the problem gone away? Has there been a noticeable improvement in the mpg?


Okay, I had my replacement ECU installed yesterday afternoon so have only done about 50 miles. The car no longer idles alternately between 700 rpm and 1000 rpm when stationary, now it just hovers around 700rpm constantly. That is a good change. It also seems to run smoother and drives in a more refined manner.

I have not seen the hesitation problem reoccur yet. Too early to report on the mpg, but I will post more info once i have been through a full tank.

Andy


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## Enufsaid (Aug 21, 2006)

As a newbie to the forum (and to X-Trail ownership - bought a new 2.2Dci Columbia earlier this month) I read this thread with a great deal of interest as I have exactly the same 'shuddering' problem.

Having also read about it on Honest John's web site, I hot-footed it this morning to the main dealer from whom I purchased the car. The Service Manager readily acknowledged the problem, said that "Nissan were still working on a fix and that reprogramming the car's existing ECU is a temporary measure to lower the rpm at which the shudder occurs, to improve driveability." 

STOP PRESS - the Service Manager has just phoned me to say that, after contacting Nissan UK Technical, an upgraded ECU is available from them and that he will order one today.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Enufsaid said:


> As a newbie to the forum (and to X-Trail ownership - bought a new 2.2Dci Columbia earlier this month) I read this thread with a great deal of interest as I have exactly the same 'shuddering' problem.
> 
> Having also read about it on Honest John's web site, I hot-footed it this morning to the main dealer from whom I purchased the car. The Service Manager readily acknowledged the problem, said that "Nissan were still working on a fix and that reprogramming the car's existing ECU is a temporary measure to lower the rpm at which the shudder occurs, to improve driveability."
> 
> STOP PRESS - the Service Manager has just phoned me to say that, after contacting Nissan UK Technical, an upgraded ECU is available from them and that he will order one today.


Hi Enuff. So Nissan were selling cars with the fault up to a couple of weeks ago. I bought mine in June.

Honest John says: _"Nissan is working on 'electronic countermeasures' in the ECU to deal with the problem. Proper fix with Nissan dealers from end August 2006." _Is the upgraded ECU one with just the "electronic countermeasures" or is it the "proper fix" scheduled for end of August?


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## Enufsaid (Aug 21, 2006)

flynn said:


> Is the upgraded ECU one with just the "electronic countermeasures" or is it the "proper fix" scheduled for end of August?


The dealer phoned me today and the car is booked in for next Wednesday (30th) for a new ECM to be fitted. On enquiring if this is an interim or final solution, the reply was "...final solution" I'll let you know how it goes. As I'm off to France with X-Trail + caravan a few days later, it better had be the right solution!


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Hope goes well. Haven't heard from my lot yet.


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## Andy M (Jan 10, 2006)

Just an update on the new ECM. I have been through one full tank of fuel now, and to be honest didnt really see any major improvement in fuel consumption. 380 miles from one tank, but thats mostly round town and little motorway driving. Has anyone seen better fuel consumption?

On the plus side, the shuddering is now definately fixed, I have not seen any repeat of it at all.


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

Andy M said:


> On the plus side, the shuddering is now definately fixed, I have not seen any repeat of it at all.


Thanks for the update, my car is going in next monday (18th). A bit disappointing about the mpg but at least the car wiill be smoother to drive...just how it should have been in the first place!


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## PJB (Sep 11, 2006)

*PJB*

Can anyone tell me if this shuddering problem is only associated with the newer dci engines or did the problem exist with the pre 2004 diesels. Also, from the What Car & Honest John web sites it would appear that there is also a problem with the turbo units failing, again it this more of a problem with the newer dci models.

I am currently in the market for a used FWD which needs to tow a horse box and 2 ponies abt 1800kg and as the wife will be driving it during the week, was looking for something more 'car' like. Thought I had found the ideal vehicle (whatcar of the year) but not so sure now especially as the car I choose may only have limited manufacturers warranty, if any, left on it.

Last week i went to local nissan dealer to test dire a 04 dci but car had no power and felt like the turbo wasn't working!!!!!


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## Andy M (Jan 10, 2006)

PJB said:


> Can anyone tell me if this shuddering problem is only associated with the newer dci engines or did the problem exist with the pre 2004 diesels.


The shuddering problem that is now fixed, only affected 2006 diesel engines (Euro Step IV) in the UK.

Andy


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## PJB (Sep 11, 2006)

Cheers Andy - Do you also know if the turbo unit is a cause for concern (blowing) or are the users reports on Whatcar web site just the unlucky few!

PJB


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## wmcdonaldd (Jun 13, 2006)

Shuddering now fixed, not sure about fuel consumption as I've been away with my caravan since it was fixed.
has anyone heard anything from Nissan re compensation for owners, I was told twice by Nissan customer services that there would be compensation for owners which was then (July) yet to be decided?


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

WM, do you know what they did? Did they replace the ECU or just reprogram?


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## ex AA (Sep 12, 2006)

*ex AA*

Hi Im new to this forum. We have had the same fault with our 2006 Xtrail. The Ecm was replaced about 3 weeks ago. This has cured the hesitation fault. The fuel economy has improved, but at best we have only achieved 32mpg. So last week I decided to take the car for an MOT emission test. The car did pass, but the readings were high indicating that the car was running rich. The dealer has asked us to bring the car in this Friday to check this for themselves. I will keep you informed as to what the outcome is.

With regard to compensation, after several letters to Nissan Uk, they have offered us 3 years free servicing, but we have not accepted this until we are satisfied with the car


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## wmcdonaldd (Jun 13, 2006)

flynn said:


> WM, do you know what they did? Did they replace the ECU or just reprogram?[/QUOTE
> They told me that they had fitted a new ECU.


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## ex AA (Sep 12, 2006)

They replaced the Ecm with a new one shipped directly from Nissan Uk Technical

RS


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## ten1 (Sep 12, 2006)

PJB said:


> Can anyone tell me if this shuddering problem is only associated with the newer dci engines or did the problem exist with the pre 2004 diesels. Also, from the What Car & Honest John web sites it would appear that there is also a problem with the turbo units failing, again it this more of a problem with the newer dci models.
> 
> I am currently in the market for a used FWD which needs to tow a horse box and 2 ponies abt 1800kg and as the wife will be driving it during the week, was looking for something more 'car' like. Thought I had found the ideal vehicle (whatcar of the year) but not so sure now especially as the car I choose may only have limited manufacturers warranty, if any, left on it.
> 
> Last week i went to local nissan dealer to test dire a 04 dci but car had no power and felt like the turbo wasn't working!!!!!


Have the hesitation problem too car is going in next wednesday 20th sept sorry can't help you out with the turbo issue, but if you are thinking of towing around a horse box with a static weight of around 18ookg i would look elsewhere because the car won't be heavy enough especially if the ponies start to move around. I know figures show max tow weight of 2000kg but car kerb weight is only about 1600kg


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## Capt Clive (Sep 13, 2006)

Have had the X-trail problems which all started in March! My dealer today confirmed that the fix depends on the VIN - if it is an A, B or C (?) then the ECU is re-programmed. The D is replaced. Mine can be re-programmed but the dealer (who told me 5 weeks ago he was one of around 8 in UK at the forefront of the problem with Nissan) has not as yet received the disc. Interested in the offer of compensation as posted by "ex AA" - is this in writing - because 3 years free should be offered to everyone who has suffered. I just hope that the dire mpg of below 30 increases as I calculate its cost me at least an additional £200 in fuel.


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## ex AA (Sep 12, 2006)

Our problems started in March too. Nissan Uk do not seem to no what customer service is. We have had, to send several letters to Nissan uk. Finally after negotiation they have confirmed 3 years servicing, in writing but they advised that this was based purely on our case. 

Ex AA


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## ten1 (Sep 12, 2006)

My dealership sent a letter out offering a test drive in the new columbia 2.2 with a view to buying one with three years free servicing and rac cover. To qualify i'd need to part exchange a current x trail which had to be more than six months old and purchase the new one before end of October. Seeing I only purchased my new Columbia in May i wouldn't qualify and i didn't particually want to purchase another, I wrote back to the dealership to see if they could offer this package to me as compentation due to the problems encounted with the hesitation, poor fuel consumption and errartic tick over. However to date no reply.


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## john g (Sep 15, 2006)

I had my "Fix" on Wednesday and it took about an hour for the ECU to be upgraded.
So far seems to run well.It seems that ECUs with letter A,B or C in the serial no can be uprated but D can not. (If I understood what I was told correctly)My new code is now D.
I have raised the speedo calibration question with the dealer as on the previous X (I am on the 3rd in 6 yrs+) my Inforad speed camera detector bleeped at an indicated 35mph and now bleeps at 31mph.Also compared to my Friends Freelander over 160 miles the X read 6 miles less.They had already raised the question with Nissan and were told that the speedo readings were within "tolerances".Certainly I am getting 3-4 mpg less indicated mpg but the overall mileage is going to be less on trade in !!.
I had black smoke problems with the first X and it certainly would have failed the M O T.
It was finally sorted in Spain by Interdiesel of Figueras after my local dealer had kept putting the job off.They replaced injectors and what they called "System Anti-Pollution"


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## john g (Sep 15, 2006)

Clive I hadn't read your post but seem to agree on A,B ,C or D


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## john g (Sep 15, 2006)

Clive had mine done at Holdcrofts at Maybank.Newcastle-u-Lyme


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## ex AA (Sep 12, 2006)

*Update Nissan X-trail*

Update with our X-trail. Took the car back to the Dealers yesterday, they re-checked the exhaust emissions, and agreed that the figures were too high (following on from the test which I had carried out independently). When the ECM was replaced they forgot to reprogram/set the injectors to the new ECM. Once the injectors had been reprogramed, and a further emission test carried out. The emissions had been reduced by half. So this would explain the poor fuel economy, as the engine would have been running rich. I will check to see if the economy does improve. Fingers crossed. Ex AA


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

Update: My XTrail has been reprogrammed by Richmond Motor Company (N Yorks). Now feels like a new car, behaves very differently from the stodgy performance experienced before the fix. Much smoother to drive. So far, I am seeing a 10% fuel efficiency gain. Seems a lot but it only takes me from 28.5 to 31.5 mpg. I am now pursuing Nissan for some sort of compensation for 7 months of inconvenience.


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## john g (Sep 15, 2006)

I wrote to Nissan on Monday they received the letter on Tuesday by recorded delivery but as yet no asked for comments.
Similar much smoother drive but as yet no mpg figures since fix.
I was getting 34 ish before and I always brim the tank and do a sum.
The last fill was half a tank pre fix and included 75 miles towing the caravan with average mpg over 360 miles of 33 so that looks better.
The speedo definitely reads lower than on the last X but as someone else had raised the issue with my dealer they had asked Nissan who said that it was within tolerances.
The tolerances seem very wide as some people claim to get 44mpg
When it comes to trade in they may have 25% higher mileage reading !!


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## Teoxy (Sep 24, 2006)

Hi to everyone!
I'm new to this great forum I've discovered since brought new XT to my garage at the beginning of August. Sometimes wonder would I have done it if found this forum earlier - I'm worried a bit about "shuddering" and other problems of X Trail dci 2006. 
So expecting further news on this issue with great interest.
Best to all of you here. Hope to meet you frequently.


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## runningonempty (Sep 25, 2006)

I have had my brand new 2.2DCi Aventura exactly two weeks today. I noticed this problem immediately, but it became obvious the first day I took the car on the motorway. The cruising speed in 6th gear is right in the rev range of this problem.

Thanks to you guys, I was able to book my car in to Dixon Nissan in Huddersfield (Halifax did not have the disc). They applied the update on Thursday and now it feels like a different car. Smoother, more powerful, and definitely more frugal.

I have just returned from a 240 mile trip to the Lake District this weekend, and the car performed like a dream. It pulled nicely up 'The Struggle' out of Ambleside up Kirkstone Pass and cruised well on the motorway.

This X-Trail is my third 'soft roader'. I had the original CR-V, great car, fantastic reliability, but 23mpg! I then had a 2001 Freelander, great diesel engine, 35mpg, 17 trips to the dealer in as many months. Three sunroofs, one steering rack, one power steering motor, no end of electrical and turbo problems. The drivers electric window packed in on day one, as a piece of trim fell off!

As I prepared to order my X-Trail, I did wonder about the new Freelander. On paper, and on the web, it looks a great car. The niggling doubts were on reliability and boot space.

Well, guess what. I took a trip to Bristol in August and on the way back, at the first services on the M5 after you leave Bristol, I saw an undisguised new model Freelander on trade plates. The car looks great and I was having a good look round when I spotted the driver was inside having his sandwich. It was a left hand drive model. As soon as he noticed me taking an interest in his car, he left, but not before I got a look at the boot. Whilst bigger than the old landy, it was still small, and definitely not dog friendly, being a short boot but deep, with high windows.

With that doubt out of the way, I went ahead and ordered my X-Trail, which took three weeks to arrive. I am slightly bothered that Nissan are still sending out vehicles with a known problem, but otherwise, I am really pleased with the car.

On fuel consumption, I have kept records before the fix and after, but not got round to the calculations yet. Plus my Lake District trip will not be typical. I am setting off for Edinburgh (from Halifax) today and returning tomorrow. Being on works business (and therefore my time is paid for) I will not be going too fast, so it should give me a good solid base for a calculation.

On my last car (Renault Laguna 1.9DCi 100bhp) I did notice that having the air conditioning on could significantly affect the mpg, taking it down from 47mpg to 43mpg on an 80mph motorway cruise. I also have a handheld GPS which can calculate your absolute ground speed very accurately, so I will have a go at calibrating my speedo this weekend.

Anyway, thanks for the help guys. Maybe we should all campaign for Nissan to apply the fix as standard and do a recall for the numptys that haven't noticed the problem.

Cheers..

..Richard


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Hi Richard,

Welcome to the forums.

The fix was announced iirc by Nissan towards the end of August so makes me wonder what they and their dealers are playing at if they delivered your car 11 Sept but without applying the fix. 

By not making a general recall is it that they're trying to portray it as a problem limited to just a few cars? If so, they aren't doing themselves any good. To me it's a safety issue if you get a missfire just as you move out to overtake. I don't know anyone with the step IV engine who hasn't needed the fix. Mine goes in this week.

I took delivery in June and was faultless apart from that one issue. Sad that they've handled it so badly that it's shaken confidence in the brand for a lot of customers.


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

runningonempty said:


> Well, guess what. I took a trip to Bristol in August and on the way back, at the first services on the M5 after you leave Bristol, I saw an undisguised new model Freelander on trade plates. The car looks great and I was having a good look round when I spotted the driver was inside having his sandwich. It was a left hand drive model. As soon as he noticed me taking an interest in his car, he left, but not before I got a look at the boot. Whilst bigger than the old landy, it was still small, and definitely not dog friendly, being a short boot but deep, with high windows.


Going off topic slightly, but in reply to Richard's post.

Interesting comment about the FL2. I had considered waiting but reasoned that the price of the new model would be higher than the XTrail. I was right. Drivethedeal has now posted some list prices for the new FL2. Ranging from £21.5K to £26k depending on spec + £4K for the goodies that are standard on the Xtrail. So a mid range GS with extras will come in at £27.7K before discount.


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## Capt Clive (Sep 13, 2006)

The classic corporate approach is "divide and conquer". Everyone who has parted with their hard earned money should feel conned. I know that some contributors have posted their concerns to Nissan Customer Services and some have managed to secure some recompense. I have just written again as follows:

"I refer to my letter dated 12th September 2006 to which no acknowledgement has been received - disappointing, although not totally unexpected having read various reports citing lack of responses from Nissan.

The problems which I have confirmed to you are defiantly not isolated to my vehicle and Nissan have, via the dealerships, continued to release sub standard products into the market in the full knowledge of the problems existing. The dealerships may claim ignorance, but they do know of the problems, and are culpable also as they do not bring the defect to the attention of the buyer.

There is a also a potential third culpable party. This is the separate limited company (but a very close linked company) that has provided the 0% interest loans Nissan Finance (GB) Ltd. The loans are Hire Purchase and by definition there is a responsibility borne by the finance provider. 

My vehicle is branded “Columbia” which as we know is the international sports wear company, would they be happy that a sub standard product bearing their name is causing such a sour taste to be left?

I await your reply."

If everyone affected also puts pen to paper....

Just wish that I could find Carlos Goshen's email address.


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## Capt Clive (Sep 13, 2006)

Having had no update from my local dealer - he promised he was getting the disc 2 weeks ago - I paid them a visit this morning, and still the disc had not arrived! Within a few minutes contact was made with Nissan (where is unknown) and within 10 minutes they had an email (?) confirming the disc was on its way 1st class. Aha! So when are we going to book it in says I; the reply... which day would you like next week? Tuesday will be a day of revelation, or at least I hope it is! 

Moreover, the sour taste still remains... and I for one still don't like being conned.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Had mine done yesterday by West London Nissan. Haven't had the chance to fully test it but it seems ok.

They hadn't phoned me when there was a fix available as they promised and had to wait another two weeks plus for them to find time to fix the duff car they sold me. They'd only give me a loan car for the day if I paid for the insurance. They eventually agreed to pick up the car but complained I was a 20 minute drive away which was a bit far for them. Funnily enough they didn't seem to think I was too far away when the flogged me the car.


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## john g (Sep 15, 2006)

Capt Clive I had mine done by Holdcrofts at Wolstanton 2 weeks + ago
Big improvement and mpg seems up by about 4 mpg


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## harvey79 (Oct 18, 2006)

I bought a columbia in june 2006, Immediatly complained to Nissan UK Customer services, They Rented me a 05/55 X-trail SVE until end of aug when a new ECU was fitted.
As compensation I asked for 3 years free servicing & an Official Nissan Towbar to be fitted. All this adds up to just about £1000. Have my own car back now , absolutly fantastic & still less than 1000miles on clock.


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## john g (Sep 15, 2006)

I recorded 38mpg on the last fill which is a big improvement over pre "fix"
I wrote to Nissan again on 7th Oct and received a very nice letter back yesterday and enclosed was a voucher.
Can't see why a disc has to be sent by post in these days of downloading


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

john g said:


> I recorded 38mpg on the last fill which is a big improvement over pre "fix"
> I wrote to Nissan again on 7th Oct and received a very nice letter back yesterday and enclosed was a voucher.
> Can't see why a disc has to be sent by post in these days of downloading


I also requested 3 years servicing but not the towbar and all I received from Nissan GB was a voucher for £100 and a snotty letter washing their hands of any further responsibility.

If Nissan Customer Services has a remit to alienate customers they have been very successful. I have now bought my first - and last Nissan vehicle.

What compensation have others received from them?


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## john g (Sep 15, 2006)

Same compensation but nice letter !!


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## storeyc (Oct 25, 2006)

had the ecu s/w upgrade a few weeks ago. far better performance, still monitoring mpg, but its not looking wonderful. managed to get £150 of vouchers after telling nissan how much it had cost be extra in fuel over 5000 miles


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## Capt Clive (Sep 13, 2006)

Had the fix a few weeks ago now - had to remind the dealer who reminded Nissan who then posted the disc! Much smoother now but jury is still out on the MPG but mainly due to not having to drive more than locally.

Had a call from a chap based in Paris who was surveying unhappy customers for Nissan but told me he was actually employed by Nissan not just on contract. He had the details to hand - rightly or wrongly I got the impression he listened - maybe the penny has dropped at last.

Next day a letter arrived (bland) with a voucher for £100. It is a start. They had not read quite read my last missive. The saga will continue....


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## ghquattro (Nov 1, 2006)

I took delivery of my new x-trail on June 1st this year. It also suffers (or should I say suffered) from the hesitation problem. I had the first service done 3 weeks ago at which time the dealer applied 'a modification to the computer' to solve the problem. When driving home that day I found the hesitation was gone however I felt the engine response or performance under 2000 revs had gone with it. I had no time to go back to the dealer as we were heading off on holiday the next day to Switzerland in the x-trail. We have just returned on Monday evening........overall impressions are Motorway driving excellent, overall mpg return about 520km per tank, on the mountain passes....should have brought my wife's Suzuki Liana 1.3. No problem if I wanted to keep the revs over 2000 but anything under was a first gear job all the way! Surely this is not normal?
Previous posts have mentioned the A, B, C or D code. How do I find mine...the VIN is JN1TENT30U0316478.

Thanks,


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## Capt Clive (Sep 13, 2006)

It was the dealer service manager (armed with his plug in gizmo which plugs in lower right drivers side behind the access plate) who confirmed to me that the ECU fix depended on the ECU type being A, B, C or D as to whether it needed to be replaced or re-programmed. I don't think the VIN itself confirms it. It doesn't sound right if you have nothing below 2000rpm and it needs more attention?


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## Piper (Oct 30, 2006)

I'm really happy for those who now have judder free X Trails ... BUT I live in Bedford with 6 month old Aventura 2.2dci and the dealer's still waiting for the CD to arrive from Nissan. Nissan UK say there's been a delay in sending the CDs out! Unable yet to explain why some dealers have been fixing the problem for a couple of months now. Also leaving it up to me to phone around dealers to see who can fix the problem! Great customer service I don't think. Also dodging the question re: compensation. What is essentially a fairly minor technical problem is developing into a major customer dispute, largely through lack of communication on Nissan's part. I'm also looking to find out what 'What Car" have to say about it seeing that they are so keen on the X Trail and that Nissan have been using the magazine's endorsement as an encouragement to purchase. 

Also ... while I'm on a rant ... once the juddering's fixed can anyone suggest what can be done to stop the dashboard rattling like a 20 year old Trabant's? 

Will go for the Santa Fe next time.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

That's ridiculous Piper, which dealer is that? Why the hell can't they borrow the CD from another dealer? Why can't they get a cretin at Nissan to copy the CD? Nissan UK is a daffy company who seem to take on some of the crappest dealers in the trade. I think it might be the time to go into the showroom on a busy Saturday and rant till someone there takes responsibility. In my view it's a safety issue that should have top priority, having an engine misfire just as you start to overtake isn't good for your health.

My dash doesn't make any noise so something else for the dealer to sort when they do the misfire for you.


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## storeyc (Oct 25, 2006)

I am still tracking MPG on my 'upgraded' S/W ECU, and it still does not look good. Im having trouble getting over 31mpg. Has anybody else who has had the upgrade still have poor fuel consumption ?. Should the dealer have adjusted something else, other than just the ECU S/W ?


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

storeyc said:


> I am still tracking MPG on my 'upgraded' S/W ECU, and it still does not look good. Im having trouble getting over 31mpg. Has anybody else who has had the upgrade still have poor fuel consumption ?. Should the dealer have adjusted something else, other than just the ECU S/W ?


Since the software update, I feel like I am driving a completely different car... much more enjoyable to drive, so at the moment I am being more tolerant about the mpg figures. Before the fix I got 28 or so, after the fix I am achieving 31 or so, averaging 31.5 mpg.

My previous car, a TD4 Freelander averaged 31.5 - 32 against a manufacturers quoted figure of 37 - so Nissan are not alone in the BS stakes.


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## Capt Clive (Sep 13, 2006)

The ECU fix has only put the car into the position it SHOULD have been i.e. enjoyable to drive. Don't be tolerant of poor MPG - 31 mpg is still POOR (really mean CR*P but being polite!). Only compare like with like i.e. the TD4 was always noted for it's poor mpg, but the X-Trail previous DCI unit gave 35+ mpg in almost all conditions. Nissan have continued to do themselves - and us who have bought the latest versions - harm... unfortunatly the word is out because no one wants to buy in the car as PX. Keep on at Nissan otherwise they win and we lose.


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## qzx372 (Jun 6, 2006)

Capt Clive said:


> Keep on at Nissan otherwise they win and we lose.



Nissan is adopting the divide and conquer approach to dealing with the problem. I have found it impossible to make any headway. In fact, my relationship with my supplying dealer has broken down. Nissan GB have washed their hands. So, I am now in the position that I wait until the depreciation has levelled out and then I will I jump ship. Even though I enjoy driving the car there is no doubt in my mind that I will never own another Nissan. Customer service is truly abysmal - in fact it is non existent.

If there is any way to approach Nissan from a position of strength then I would be interested to hear it!

Although the quality of my first Freelander was very poor, LR tried hard to please, so I bought a second - which was much better. The dealer network cared about its customers. I will probably buy a third at some point in the future - if Stern and Brown haven't conspired to bankrupt me first.


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## ghquattro (Nov 1, 2006)

x-trail back with dealer today. They agree that since applying the 'fix', there is very little response at low revs i.e. up to 2000. He has been told by Nissan Ireland that the 'fix' for the A, B and C ecu brings them up to level D and that if you already have a D type ecu then you have the best there is and there must be something else wrong with the vehicle. The dealer tells me that all the fix does is move the response curve further up the rev range so the hesitation is no longer noticed. This might explain the dead zone from idle to 2000. Tomorrow the dealer is going to swop over an ecu from a new demo x-trail they have to see if this solves the problem. The only reply about the 27mpg was 'what do you expect if your driving up Swiss mountain roads for the last 3 weeks'

I'll post again tomorrow how I get on.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

qzx372 said:


> Customer service is truly abysmal - in fact it is non existent.


Would agree, when I spoke to Nissan Customer Services they did seem exceptionally useless by any standard. Seemed to be staffed by kids who didn't understand that their company not fixing a fault on cars bought in good faith for months was a reasonable cause of annoyance to customers. Perhaps a letter addressed to Carlos Ghosn - Nissan CEO? If he's as competent as advertised then he should want to know the problem his company has in that department.


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## ten1 (Sep 12, 2006)

Now misfire fixed, I approached Nissan customer service for compensation, they offered me vouchers to the value of £150 once i explained the problems and addition expense incurred with fuel return also after checking with dealership who carried out the fix. Still monitoring fuel return and still uncertain if lower end performance has been affected. Partial result anyway maybe should have stay with Hyundai.


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## Hockinp (Nov 11, 2006)

We had the new software loaded in August and the shuddering problem is essentially fixed.

However, the car is only returning 25 mpg and there has been little change since the new software was installed. The majority of runs are semi-local, a 10 mile drive to our nearest town so I would have expcted the car to be a lot more efficient than this.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

For the first time in my life, I've kept mpg figures for mine from new. Must be getting very anal. 

Odometer reading/mpg

381/31.5 mpg
576/34.9
900/31.3
1235/32.6
1584/31.9
1900/34.3
2187/34.8
2496/32.0
Most of the above included a fair amount of motorway cruising at indicated 80mph.

Since the ecu reprogram have only filled up once as below:

2842/31.2 mpg

Most of the mileage on that tank was 6 miles each way on 30 mph suburban roads to work and back with almost no motorway so not a good comparison. Has also included a couple of major jams and once when it took an hour to cover 3 miles. Without the jams could have maybe driven 20 or 30 miles without using any more fuel so just eliminating them from the equation would have made a difference of maybe 10%. Set against that, the engine should be loosening up now and giving better mpg.

I'm probably moderately heavy on the pedal and tend to drive as fast as traffic will allow so unless you're really hammering it 25 mpg sounds as if something is wrong. If I can get 31-34 in traffic to and from work that's not far off what I'd expect.

BTW, Are the vouchers others have been given for servicing costs or something else? They offered me the next service free which I guess is worth around £200.


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## Hockinp (Nov 11, 2006)

So it does look like there is still a problem. It is kind of sad to have to record mpg figures. Regards the driving, the Nissan is actually my wifes car and she drives it carefully. My car is a Volvo T5 which is a beast in which I take great delight in hammering and I still get 29 mpg in that car!

Here are the mileage figures we are achieving. The last 3 or 4 figures are following the software re-program:

1950	26.9
2047	22.6
2332	23.5
2607	28.1
2959	25.4
3235	26.7
3501	24.8
3731	23.5
4007	25.5
4319	26.9
4634	25.9
4949	25.9
5296	25.5


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Suppose it's possible to get any sort of consumption figures if it's stuck in jams long enough or driven in first gear all day but assuming normal driving there looks something amiss there. Have the dealers commented?

My brother-in-law says he gets 40mpg in his X-trail DCi but he drives very gently and not sure he's too methodical in his calculations. I got the 34.9 mpg when I eased back on the motorway cruising speed which I assume is down to the high boxy shape.


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## Desmo996 (Nov 14, 2006)

I just joined this forum after trying to find information about the X-Trail shuddering problem and also with regard to fuel consumption.
My March 06 Aventura has now covered 13k, mostly long distance miles. I'm very disappointed with the fuel economy as the official combined figure was (I think) 39.4 mpg.
I use this as a guide because I find I can always exceed it. My last company car, a BMW 320d (the new model) covered 15k in 6 months averaging 50 mpg - even including a 100mph cruise to Carcassone with 4 adults and luggage. By comparison my X trail, even when driven what I would consider gently gives....

330	29.5
705	31.2
1008	32.1
1381	33.0
1699	
1901	32.1
2265	33.8
2868	34.8
3212	33.1
3604	34.0
3972	32.0
3972	
4321	32.3
4702	32.6
5073	34.4
5408	35.6
5788	34.6
6149	34.5
6554	34.7
6909	33.3
7191	33.4
7597	34.7
7936	34.2
8288	32.0
8644	35.1
9025	33.1
9423	35.0
9805	35.2
10136	34.2
10514	33.9
10872	35.0
11180	33.1
11590	33.5
11965	34.6
12348	34.8
12726	33.0
13075	33.8
13451	34.1

An average of 33.6 mpg. Better than many of your correspondants, but well short of my expectations. I have managed the same figures in an BMW X5 automatic!
Regarding the shuddering, mine is affected and I will try my dealer to get the fix and report back any improvement (or otherwise) found.
On the whole, despite the good ride quality, comfort and space, buying the X Trail (I bought it rather than take a lease car when I changed jobs) was not the best decision I've made!! Roll on another 28 months when I can change to something more economical!


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## ex AA (Sep 12, 2006)

Hi all, best mpg I have achieved is 33mpg. We are so fedup with Nissan and the supplying dealers. Last week we asked the dealers how much they would but the car back from us, bearing in mind that it is an 2.2 Dci Columbia 2006 with 5,800 miles and extras fitted invoice total was just over £22,000, the dealers came back with £15,500!! You can imagine what I said. All the dealers would say is that "that's what we could get one directly from Nissan" Talk about rip off !! To add insult to injury we have been invited to the premier of the Qashqai !! Has any one had any better buy back offers?

Regards, ex AA


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## Piper (Oct 30, 2006)

Oh boy ... Still not heard from the dealer even though they told me (after I'd had to phone them, again, for an update) that they'd be in a position to book my X Trail in for the juddering 'fix' at the end of last week. 

Nissan UK have ignored my last e-mail to their "customer service" team that I sent on 30/10/06 in which I asked for answers to specific questions re: the juddering issue, how long it's taking to resolve, poor customer communication, compensation etc.!

'WhatCar' (supposed consumer champions?) have not even acknowledged my e-mail to them of 8/11.

Splendid. 

Desmo 996 ... I am in exactly the same position as you and counting down the days until I can be rid. We really shouldn't have to wish our lives away like this, should we?!


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## ghquattro (Nov 1, 2006)

ECU swop made no difference - still no low response, so my own ecu is back in vehicle again. Brought it to an independent shop yesterday for a rolling-road (dyno) test........results are interesting.....

max torque 189.7ftLb at hub (=approx 240 at flywheel) at 2584rpm
max power 112BHP at hub (=approx 162 at flywheel) at 3591rpm

The torque figure confirms my own feelings about the poor response at low revs but other than that I'm at a total loss!


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## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

*Depreciation*



ex AA said:


> Hi all, best mpg I have achieved is 33mpg. We are so fedup with Nissan and the supplying dealers. Last week we asked the dealers how much they would but the car back from us, bearing in mind that it is an 2.2 Dci Columbia 2006 with 5,800 miles and extras fitted invoice total was just over £22,000, the dealers came back with £15,500!! You can imagine what I said. All the dealers would say is that "that's what we could get one directly from Nissan" Talk about rip off !! To add insult to injury we have been invited to the premier of the Qashqai !! Has any one had any better buy back offers?
> 
> Regards, ex AA


Over the years I have heard that a vehicle depreciates almost 30 % in the first year - - the minute you drive it off the lot, it becomes a "used" vehicle.

Albeit that your invoice price was 22K that included some "extras". The dealer would not take that into consideration on a "buy-back". So, if the 30 % is the accepted industry standard (and I'm not saying for sure that it is) then your loss would be 6600, leaving a buy-back of 15,400 - and they have offered 15,500 - seems pretty close to the 30 %.

The other significant point is that you're intending to "walk-away" from Nissan - - - not a lot of incentive here for the dealer. I think the picture could be somewhat different if you were interested in obtaining a "different" Nissan product. Have you considered it ?? I note that they sent you an invite to the premier of the Qashqai - - wonder if your dealers response might be any different if you expressed interest in changing from the X-Trail to the Qashqai.............or some other Nissan product????

I had a previous vehicle (North American product) and had a ton of problems in the first 6 months of use - - took it back and said I was not (at all) satisfied..."negotiated" a deal on an upgrade model and my loss was almost minimal.

I just recently turned back my '05 X-Trail (SE model, 15 months old, with 32k on the clock - - no problems) for the new '06 Bonavista edition....it was (in my opinion) a reasonable deal. I think part of the reason was continued loyalty to Nissan.

Not all Nissan products are bad or have faults - there are lots of satisfied owners out there. Once in awhile it seems that a few "lemons" make it off the assembly line - and that applies to other makes and other manufactures. 

Some of the those "niggly" problems that involve today's modern technology can oft times be very difficult to resolve. And from what I've read in some of these and other posts, it seems that the relationship between your dealers and the Head office doesn't necessarily lend itself to a positive result for the owner.

If you're that "completely" dissatisfied with the X-Trail and determined to "walk-away" from Nissan products, then it's going to cost you. 

My intent in this post is not to be critical of your decision....just to offer some food-for-thought and alternate approaches that you can consider.

As a final thought, I wonder if your dissatisfaction is actually with the X-Trail itself, or with the dealers / Nissan guys for providing very poor customer service.....

Good luck with it - I sincerely hope that you find a "satisfactory" solution.

Cheers = Roger


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## Piper (Oct 30, 2006)

Interesting thoughts, Roger, thank you. 

I do recall the first time I visited the Nissan dealer earlier this year to look at the X Trail, an old chap came in and began ranting and raving about the poor paint finish on his brand new Primera and the lack of any interest or action on Nissan's part. He was "ushered" (manhandled) out of the showroom and I failed to pick up the warning sign, convinced as I was then of the myth of Nissan's superb reliability and solid customer service. Of course, I had also not cottoned-on to the fact that I was actually buying a Renault ... without being in any way xenophobic, I would not have purchased a car made by a French-owned company (too many horror stories in the past!). 

The X Trail Aventura is a decent enough car and I am generally pleased with the overall package (juddering engine, rattling dash and weak handbrake aside), although I kick myself for not waiting another 6 months to check it against the most recently launched competition before deciding to buy. Of course, the 0% finance deal was a major lure.

I have to say that any product / service will ultimately only be as good as the back up it receives from the manufacturer and / or seller, particularly when things go wrong. I would be willing to bet that there are more than just a "few lemons" out there, in the case of '06 registered diesel X Trails, it's just that their owners may be venting their spleens via other fora ... or they may be overly accepting of the situation and keeping quiet. 

When one is stuck at the receiving end of such poor service and arrogant Corporate behaviour, one is less willing to see the positive side. At the moment I think Nissan and its franchisee STINK. If they sort out my problem to my full satisfaction and the dust has had a chance to settle, I dare say that my thoughts towards them will become far more benign. 

I have to say that I have been fortunate to have owned 5 brand new cars prior to this one. The first was a VW Polo and that developed what turned into a string of problems within the first 30 minutes of ownership!! VW Customer service was appalling ... slightly worse than Nissan's which is saying something. Two others were SEATs and I had these through LeasePlan. Both these cars, particularly the second, needed warranty work done on them ... the beauty of LeasePlan was the ease with which dealer's doors were opened and the speed with which problems were resolved. 

The other two were Mazda MX5s, one of which I still have. Great pakage, no trouble, first class dealer (now, sadly closed) and excellent service. I am happy to give them my hard earned cash and will remain so minded.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Sounds as if a lot of makers had problems meeting the Euro 4 emission standards. I see that owners' reviews for the Honda CR-V at http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-readers.aspx?RT=422 are full of complaints about hesitation and poor mpg. In Test Drive magazine on their long-term test over 5000 miles of the diddy Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi they only averaged 34.5 mpg and didn't seem to think it was too bad - even though the official figures for it are 38.1 urban 61.3 xurban and 51.4 combined. 

Speaking to the service manager at my dealer it seems that most of their customers haven't even noticed the slight hesitation problem. On mine it was only ever very slight, just about niticeable, but it was the time Nissan took to find a fix that was frustrating.

From a financial point of view, if someone loses £6600 by trading in it's worth remembering that money would pay for about 50,000 miles worth of fuel. Unfortunately, if disgruntled owners talk down the car too much because their cheesed off with Nissan customer services and that affects the aftersales market, they'll only be hitting themselves in the pocket when they sell.


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## storeyc (Oct 25, 2006)

I am now back in contact with Nissan Customer Support regarding MPG. This was the response to my e-mail complaining about MPG :

_Whilst the concern with the X-Trail diesel may have led to increased fuel consumption ( lower m.p.g. figures ) the new software should have led to the vehicle now matching its original fuel consumption figures. The software update will only, in some cases, lead to an improvement in the fuel consumption relative to vehicles exhibiting the “hesitation during overrun concern” which was addressed with the new software. The fuel consumption figures should then return ( if tested accurately ) to those specified in earlier brochures._


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## chriso1111 (Nov 5, 2006)

Hello all, new to this forum but been watching the comments over the last few weeks. Found the forum 2 days after taking delivery of my x-trail aventura diesel!!!. I have previously been driving a 2.5 petrol x-trail.

My car was a Nissan management car and delivered to me with 1300 miles on it and came with the hesitation on the engine.

I was very annoyed with the supplying dealer principal who denied that there was any problem with the car, however after speaking to a senior manager they seemed very keen to ensure that I was satisfied with the car. I am still in negotiations as to the level and type of compensation that they are going to offer. I will name the dealer after negotiations are complete. 

I have had the software update and the car drives like a dream. It is now smoother and the engine is very responsive. I have driven about 1000 miles since the update and it seems ok.

I have been slightly dissapointed with the mpg but the car now feels so i can live with the fuel economy.

I am extremely critical about the way my cars run as i do about 40k miles pa and feel that the car can now do the job it was designed to.

In relation to the customer service by Nissan I spoke to Nissan GB and explained my problems and found them very helpful as i was asking some very searching questions about the update. They rang me back to confirm that the software update was a total fix of the problem and they have sent me a letter covering the first service.


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## ex AA (Sep 12, 2006)

Hi chriso, welcome to this forum. I find it hard to believe that Nissan are still selling these cars with this known problem. Im not sure whether Nissan really care about their customers at all. 

We were invited to another Nissan dealer the other night to see the preview of the Qashqai. The car looks very nice, a smaller version of the Murano. The Dealers were friendly and proffesional. I had a chat with the service manager who said that we should be getting at least 37mpg on a long run. He asked if we had the software update, I advised that we had the actual ECU replaced. The service manager seems to think that we should have had the software update too, so he is going to have a look at it for us.

Our experiences with Nissan UK and the original supplying Dealers have really taken away, any enjoyment out of owning this car. We still may count our losses and walk away from the experience. Its a real shame because we really like the car, and Nissan may have lost a loyal customer or two, as my father in law was going to buy a new car, and our experiences have made him change his mind. My work colleagues (one who owns a 2004 Dci X Trail, with no faults), will think twice before parting with their hard earned cash.

Please keep us upto date with your outcome from Nissan.

Regards Ex AA


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## Capt Clive (Sep 13, 2006)

Chriso 1111's experience really does underline many of the points previously raised about the quality of the dealerships generally. 

Moreover, I wonder if the experience in dealing with Nissan CS was influenced by the fact that the vehicle was originally a "Nissan Management" vehicle? 

Chriso - you say you had dialogue with a "senior manager" after dealings with the dealer principal, was this person at Nissan UK?

Following my "fix" everything is running much more smoothly, however I'm still assessing the MPG situation as I'm not convinced it has had any real effect. I note that Nissan still have the fuel consumption figures in the website expressed in litres with no conversion formula!


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## chriso1111 (Nov 5, 2006)

Update

The senoir manager was a manager in the dealership where i bought the car from not at nissan GB. I actually found Nissan GB very good. They seemed genuinely concerned about the problem. 

I have for the first time recorded my mileage and got 360 miles from a tank. This was 70% motorway 30% cross country twisty roads. From the figures from previous forum members i assume this is about 34 mpg or am i wrong? Maths not my strong point. If this is the case I am very concerned as i was told the update would increase the mpg.

I am going to have a further battle with the dealers on monday and think i am going to reject the car.

Will keep you posted


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## chriso1111 (Nov 5, 2006)

Been out in car today and guess what, judder has returned, not as noticeable but definitely there. I have just done my figures again 360 miles on 13.25 gallon tank according to hand book equals *27 mpg !!!!!!!!!!! Does that sound right?

I am not prepared to have the wool pulled over my eyes by a company that will not come clean about its product. 

I will keep you updated.*


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## chriso1111 (Nov 5, 2006)

Further update

What a load of cobblers Nissan GB are. Spoke to them today and they insist that they do not know of any other complaints to them over the mpg claims. They state mine must be an isolated case and that if there if is a fix they will contact us accordingly.

I asked to speak to a technical manager but was advised that they were all on the phone and i couldnt hold as i was blocking up their phone lines !!!!

Any suggestions as how to proceed gratefully received. I have a case number with Nissan after my complain and i am prepared to put it on here, Is anyone else prepared to do that so we can speak from a position of strength.

They have put me on hold and been on hold for 11 mins, some customer service!!!


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

chriso1111 said:


> Been out in car today and guess what, judder has returned, not as noticeable but definitely there. I have just done my figures again 360 miles on 13.25 gallon tank according to hand book equals *27 mpg !!!!!!!!!!! Does that sound right?
> 
> I am not prepared to have the wool pulled over my eyes by a company that will not come clean about its product.
> 
> I will keep you updated.*


*

Chris, don't think that will give you any real idea of the mpg. When the tank is shown as empty there's likely to be a couple of gallons still there and you might not have had 13.25 in the first place. That would put you nearer the mid-thirties. My tank takes 11 gallons from brim full to indicated empty even though the tank hold a max of 13.25.

What you need to do is to brim the tank and note the mileage. When nearly empty fill up again, note the new mileage and see how much was needed to fill the tank. Take one mileage from the other and divide by the number of gallons to fill up.

No job of mine to defend Nissan and found their customer services dept poor but I think some people are a bit optimistic on what mpg to expect from a 4x4.

Looking randomly at the long-term tests in What Car etc by their staff it's obvious that most vehicles do way below published figures. In their 3 month test the Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDi saloon did 38 but the official figure is 47.9. Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi estate did 34.5 but official is 51.4. Kia Picanto 1.1 mini-hatch did 36.3, official figure is 57.6. Mini Cooper 1.6 did 31.2, official is 39.8. Fiat Panda 1.2 did 38.9, official is 50.4. Land Rover Disco TDV6 did 22.7, official is 27.2. Golf 1.6 FSI did 33.3, official is 41.5. 

The answer may be that we need an official testing system that gives nearer to real-world figures.*


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## chriso1111 (Nov 5, 2006)

Hi Flynn

Thanks very much for that, will give it a go, never really been concerned about mpg before but want to check what its doing properly. 

I may not get the chance as i have told the dealer i will return the car and just waiting the outcome.

Will keep updated


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## chriso1111 (Nov 5, 2006)

Hi Flynn on those figures mid thirties doesnt sound too bad does it


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## Piper (Oct 30, 2006)

Hi Chriso,

You said in an earlier post that the judder had returned ... any more news on this?


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## Piper (Oct 30, 2006)

Can anyone offer advice on the "why's and wherefores" of returning a car which one considers not to be of marketable standard (e.g. is there a maximum time limit one has to work within)? I have had my X Trail Aventura since May this year and have noticed the judder since the 1st week of driving it ... but not before I noticed the rattly facia. Also have what I assume to be a poorly adjusted handbrake, or is this merely another quirk of this vehicle?

Nissan GB have given up responding to me. The dealer's never contacted me (despite promises to the contrary) ... it's always my phone bill that takes the hit (I'm still waiting for the judder to be fixed, by the way). Oh ... and 'WhatCar?' haven't even bothered to acknowledge my e-mail to their "Help Desk", sent 2 weeks ago. 

On the positive side, the car is driveable, very comfortable (juddering / rattling aside) and relaxing to be in (when stationary with the engine turned off). But the really big plus is that the turbo hasn't blown ... ... yet. So, I suppose I should adopt the philosophy of "it's only a car and it gets me from A to B" and have done with raised blood pressure and the constantly nagging feeling of being ripped-off.

So ... I will never buy another Nissan and I will advise friends, colleagues, next door's cat and anyone else who'll listen never to buy a Nissan (or a Renault for that matter). Although it won't make a difference to them, or their profits; hence the reason why a lot of us are being treated the way we are. Ho-hum


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

chriso1111 said:


> Hi Flynn on those figures mid thirties doesnt sound too bad does it


I would guess it's roughly about right Chris and with luck there should be a marginal increase as the engine loosens up. 

I've heard people saying they get fantastic mpg from one car or another but when you check out their methodology it's always flawed. Sometimes it's based on a single trip or they haven't measured accurately. I once towed a old boxy caravan home from Wales and got over 35 mpg when the best that car had done solo was about 30. I think the reason was there was a huge gale-force wind square behind me and the caravan acted like a sail. Could feel the car being pushed along by the van. I swear if I'd gone much further the tank would have overflowed.  If I'd been going in the other direction would have cost a bomb so just a happy fluke.

I don't expect the ECU update to make much difference to mpg either way. If it does it'll be a nice surprise.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Piper said:


> Can anyone offer advice on the "why's and wherefores" of returning a car which one considers not to be of marketable standard (e.g. is there a maximum time limit one has to work within)? I have had my X Trail Aventura since May this year and have noticed the judder since the 1st week of driving it ... but not before I noticed the rattly facia. Also have what I assume to be a poorly adjusted handbrake, or is this merely another quirk of this vehicle?


Piper, I'd guess 6 months could be pushing it a bit. A few weeks seems to be what's generally accepted as a reasonable limit to reject without giving them a chance to fix it. May have been different back in August when they still didn't have the fix available. 

Sale of Goods Act: Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 (c. 35)
Which site: Faulty goods

Longish travel on the handbrake seems to be a common "characteristic" - I had mine tightened when the ECU upgrade was done. On the rattle, I'd have them come out with you so they agree it's wrong and then make sure they fix it. Hope you get it sorted soon.


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## chriso1111 (Nov 5, 2006)

Hello all, thanks for all the support and postings following my comments.

At long last the problem has been resolved. The dealer has agreed to take back the car and refund my money. 

I will name the dealer once the transaction is complete as they have acted in good faith over my problem.


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## ex AA (Sep 12, 2006)

Hi chriso. Our 2006 X-Trail columbia is going back to the dealers 23/11/06, the whole thing has caused me nothing but stress and anxiety (countless letters to Nissan Uk, phone calls to the dealers,and Nissan so called customer support,and visits to the dealers).

The dealers are going to purchase the car back for £15500, we are gutted as invoice price was £22,211.We purchased our car 01/03/06, and reported the hesitation problem 3 weeks after delivery. The Ecu was replaced August, which did stop the hesitation,but the fuel economy has not improved, the dash still rattles. We wish that we never took that visit to the dealers back in Feb 2006.

Nissan Uk and and the dealers have not provided any customer service or care. Glad you have managed to resolve your problem. My only option is to sell the car back at a loss, and walk away.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

ex AA, sorry to hear you're considering taking a a loss of £6711. As I understand it the problem is that you only get up to 33 mpg and think it should be higher and the dash rattles. 

On the rattling dash I'd go into the dealer's on their busiest day, button-hole the sales-manager, and make it clear you won't leave till they agree to fix it. They won't want to deal with a loud and unhappy customer for an hour when they could be selling cars instead. I see someone else had the problem because a couple of damper pads were missing.

On the disappointing mpg, that £6711 could buy 1500 gallons of fuel which is enough to last the average owner about 5 years which sounds better to me than a couple of extra mpg. Seems an awfully extravagent way around the problem especially when there's every chance that whatever you replace it with could also have a fault of some kind to be sorted.


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## chriso1111 (Nov 5, 2006)

Hi ex AA sorry to hear that you havent been able to resolve the problem but i agree with Flynn that it is a lot of money to walk way from but i do understand your frustration.

I think i am going to buy an S-max instead


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## chriso1111 (Nov 5, 2006)

any one seen any bad reports on the S-max?


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## tfewwaq (Sep 14, 2006)

I have owned my 2.2DCi X Trail since the middle of July 2006 having been assured by the salesman that the cars currently being supplied did not have an ECU problem as it had been resolved in the factory.

I was somewhat surprised that the car *did *have the widely reported problem...

My dealer was useless, I had to chase them for a resolution. I tried to get in contact with their "Service Quality" manager but she does not reply to voicemails...

I have been recording mileage and fuel consumption (using both odometer and sat-nav figures!) from the moment I got the car. After the fix was applied in September the improvement in fuel consumption was immediately apparent and it felt like a different car. I do an average of 1500 miles per month, happily fuel consumption continues to improve.

I have sent a letter to Nissan Customer Services requesting details of the compensation package they are offering to X Trail owners with cars affected by the ECU problem. I will post details of their reply.

Back in August, when I was really unhappy with Nissan, I contacted Trading Standards for advice. The lovely person I spoke to in their call centre indicated that it would help them force Nissan to action if more owners contacted them with their experiences.

So if you are unhappy with your DCi X Trail *call your local Trading Standards office! *


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## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

flynn said:


> ex AA, sorry to hear you're considering taking a a loss of £6711. As I understand it the problem is that you only get up to 33 mpg and think it should be higher and the dash rattles.
> 
> On the rattling dash I'd go into the dealer's on their busiest day, button-hole the sales-manager, and make it clear you won't leave till they agree to fix it. They won't want to deal with a loud and unhappy customer for an hour when they could be selling cars instead. I see someone else had the problem because a couple of damper pads were missing.
> 
> On the disappointing mpg, that £6711 could buy 1500 gallons of fuel which is enough to last the average owner about 5 years which sounds better to me than a couple of extra mpg. Seems an awfully extravagent way around the problem especially when there's every chance that whatever you replace it with could also have a fault of some kind to be sorted.


Agree with flynn totally on this.

exAA states *"My only option is to sell the car back at a loss, and walk away" *- not quite correct - this is the option that has been chosen. And it seems (from the posts) that the "sell back and walk away" option was intended from the get go.

Hope exAA has more luck with his next purchase...........


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

*2006 X-Trail dCi turbo diesel shuddering problem fixed.*



chriso1111 said:


> any one seen any bad reports on the S-max?


http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-readers.aspx?MA=1&RT=842&Submit1=GO

Owners of the 2.5 petrol complaining about only getting 22 mpg and some owners very unhappy with Ford dealers. To be honest though, I don't think you ever get a rounded view from the internet. People tend to post if a) they're having hassle or b) they think it's the best ever. The majority don't have much to say either way and don't post. 

This man sounds a little peeved:


> Having purchased our S-Max at the end of July and following my previous entry dated 14/09/06 we have experienced three further problems with our vehicle.
> 
> Only one week after being returned from the dealership (having already been off the road for 30 days) the starter motor failed and we had to get the vehicle towed back into the dealership where it spent a further two days off the road. A short period after the air flux pipe fell off from under the bonnet whilst driving on a dual carridge way, yet again more time off the road!
> 
> ...


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

chriso1111 said:


> any one seen any bad reports on the S-max?



Hum Hum cough cough...

This is a Nissan based Forum (X-Trail)... Not Ford.

Also this particular thread provides amazing info, feedback & comments... let's stay on topic please.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Course, what he _meant_ to say was "compared to the X-t".


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## chriso1111 (Nov 5, 2006)

flynn said:


> Course, what he _meant_ to say was "compared to the X-t".


Blimey shame Nissan are'nt as quick at dealing with things as the moderator!!!!!!!


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## nobby67 (Dec 7, 2006)

Hi Xtrail forum
just had the local dealer finally listen to me and confirm that the over run on my 2006 2.2dci columbia manual should not be happening and also agree with me that my 25mpg average fuel consumption is not right.
They have had the car for 2 days i get it back tomorrow with a reprogrammed ecm which hopefully has cured the problem.
any suggestions/thoughts on this?


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Hi Nobby,

What else are they doing to take two days? They can reprogram the ECU while you wait and only takes minutes. Do you mean the engine runs on after you turn off? You should be getting better than 25 mpg even with a caravan on the back.


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## ex AA (Sep 12, 2006)

Hi all, well the car has gone back to the supplying dealer (WestWay Basingstoke). We have managed to sleep properly for the first time in ages. My wife is 7 months pregnant, so we could have done without all the anxiety. Shame on you WestWay Nissan and Nissan GB, you have let us down. We feel ripped off.

We will never buy another Nissan, nor will my father inlaw (who has owned,Nissans for the last 15 years), neither will my work colleagues and possibly their friends and families.

We now have a secondhand Vauxhall Vectra Sri Diesel (That's all we could afford,after the experience with Nissan).The Vauxhall is great. It does what its supposed to. We both agreed that we do miss the X Trail but not all the problems that came with it. We expected 3 years trouble free motoring, but did not get this.

Well as we don't own a Nissan anymore, guess I will have to say farewell to you all and best of luck, with everything. I will keep an eye on how the rest of you get on and have fingers and toes crossed for you.

Best regards,
Ex AA


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Good luck with the new car AA though as you may have seen there are plenty of owners very unhappy with Vectra reliability.

If I remember the problems you currently have are a rattle in the dash and only getting up to 33 mpg. Exchanging for a second-hand car and losing nearly £7,000 on the deal, plus the 3 years free servicing they offered as compensation, seems a drastic solution but if you're happier with that then it may be right for you. Best wishes for the new baby.


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## Capt Clive (Sep 13, 2006)

I have had the use of an October registered X-trail dci for the past few days due to being rear ended at a junction - such is life. Guess what.....? Yep, it has got the problems too! 

The season of goodwill is upon us and Santa has visited early in our house. Back in posting #59 I wished that I knew Mr Ghosen's email address and here it is:

[email protected]

Can't guarantee the man himself will reply. Happy emailing everyone.


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## grahamgolfer (Nov 12, 2006)

Roger,

Thanks for the warm welcome. I am located in Chippenham, Wiltshire in England. My vehicle is a 2006 X-Trail 2.2 DCi Columbia in Kuro Black. I love the car and enjoy the drive compared with my previous Vauxhall Vectra. I have had the same problems as most other Euro IV owners with the poor fuel consumption and engine hesitation. However, unlike most of the other owners I have recieved compensation from Nissan for the additional fuel used over the 13,000 miles I clocked up with the EGR problem, plus a little extra for the hassle. I'm now getting between 36 - 41 mpg compared with 30mpg before the fix. The other problem was the anti-galre coating on the Sat Nav as per the previous message (really poor quality coating but now removed thanks to Bomber). 

I think I am at an advantage over others as my neighbour is a Manager for the Nissan Customer Service team, and it was he who first introduced me to the X-Trail and helped me to secure a good deal on the vehicle. Just as well because my experience with the dealer has been frustrating. They are nice people but they don't seem to know much about their vehicles. 

It's great to be part of the forum and I look forward to hearing from you and others in the future. By the way, Paradise sounds like a great place to live. Is it?

Thanks

Graham



Canada's Far East said:


> Hey Graham
> 
> Good for you - - didn't quite realize that you were so new to this forum - - takes awhile to get in-the-grove...I stumbled over my self a number of times in the early going - - hang in there....this is a good place to be for an X-T owner.
> 
> ...


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## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

grahamgolfer said:


> Roger,
> 
> Thanks for the warm welcome. I am located in Chippenham, Wiltshire in England. My vehicle is a 2006 X-Trail 2.2 DCi Columbia in Kuro Black. I love the car and enjoy the drive compared with my previous Vauxhall Vectra. I have had the same problems as most other Euro IV owners with the poor fuel consumption and engine hesitation. However, unlike most of the other owners I have recieved compensation from Nissan for the additional fuel used over the 13,000 miles I clocked up with the EGR problem, plus a little extra for the hassle. I'm now getting between 36 - 41 mpg compared with 30mpg before the fix. The other problem was the anti-galre coating on the Sat Nav as per the previous message (really poor quality coating but now removed thanks to Bomber).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the updated info. - I suspected that you were "across the Pond" and further guessed that you may have had the DCi engine model (they seem to be more popular than the petrol models in the UK).

Have been reading quite a bit about the EGR problems on the Australia site - one chap actually gave back a rather new model and lost some 6500 GBP on the transaction because of his frustration with the lack of service or concern by his dealer and the parent outfit. Glad to hear that you came out of it OK.

The Capital city of the Province of Newfoundland/Labrador is St. John's. Paradise is a "bedroom" community (Town rather than City) just on the outskirts of St. John's, some 20 kms or so. It's a quiet little community, albeit growing rapidly. It's well service and is indeed a "pleasant" place to live.

We moved here about 20 years ago, only planning to stay for 2 years, at which time our daughter would attend University in the "City"....we've been here ever since - the daughter has graduated, married, had 2 kids and owns her own home.

I told my wife that "Paradise" is the closest I'll probably ever get to Heaven - so I'm staying right here :fluffy: 

Cheers


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

grahamgolfer said:


> I'm now getting between 36 - 41 mpg compared with 30mpg before the fix.


That sounds good Graham, now I'm jealous. I had the fix done but can't say I've noticed any improvement in mpg. If anything it seems slightly worse which I've put down to colder weather and only doing short journeys at this time of year. Just doing 6 miles morning and evening in traffic and the stat doesn't open for the first 3 miles.

Is the 41 mpg for a long run and did they do anything apart from the ECU upgrade?



grahamgolfer said:


> They are nice people but they don't seem to know much about their vehicles.


Open verdict on my lot but the not knowing much about their product is certainly true. Mine was bought through a relative at Nissan though I didn't want to involve him in the hassle so I assume we got similar deals. Makes a useful cushion against depreciation.


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## ex AA (Sep 12, 2006)

Hi Captain Clive thankyou for the e-mail address. I have sent an e-mail to Mr Ghosen, two days ago. I will advise if I get a response. 

Going back to our ex X-trail it is now advertised at the original dealer (West Way Nissan Basingstoke) via the Auto trader for £17495. One of my colleagues decided to call and enquire about the car. The salesman informed him that the car was in pristine condition and that the previous keeper was a very good customer of theirs, and that we had purchased 3 cars previously from them, and that we had just part exchanged the car for a new one, and was very happy with the X-trail ( A total pack of lies! This was the first new car we have ever owned,and we would never buy another Nissan, especially from them! And we were definitely not happy with them). He then went on to ask some more questions. He asked if the car was in the batch of faulty ones. This was denied, stating that it definitely was not within the batch, and even if it was that there was a quick fix. He also enquired about the fuel economy. The salesman replied 37 mpg around town and 40+ on a good run! Im furious that they are trying to sell the car, stating a pack of lies. Please be aware that the car is still not performing as it should (if anyone is interested in buying it). I hope that they sell it to a good solicitor, and they sue them.

Seasons Greetings to All

Regards Ex AA


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## grahamgolfer (Nov 12, 2006)

Hi Flynn,

The 41mpg is the absloute best I've achieved. That was on a long Motorway run doing around 60 -70 mph all the way as I wasn't in a hurry. The upgrade was the only work they've done on the car. Normal day to day driving is now delivering around 36 mpg. I drive with a very light right foot so I feel that Nissan's 39 mpg stated average is extremely optimistic. I used to get around 37 mpg from my Vectra and that was a 2.2 petrol. Anyway, I do still like the vehicle and plan to sell it on after a year and get another one at the favourable rate (if my friend is still working for Nissan that is).

Regards

Graham



flynn said:


> That sounds good Graham, now I'm jealous. I had the fix done but can't say I've noticed any improvement in mpg. If anything it seems slightly worse which I've put down to colder weather and only doing short journeys at this time of year. Just doing 6 miles morning and evening in traffic and the stat doesn't open for the first 3 miles.
> 
> Is the 41 mpg for a long run and did they do anything apart from the ECU upgrade?
> 
> Open verdict on my lot but the not knowing much about their product is certainly true. Mine was bought through a relative at Nissan though I didn't want to involve him in the hassle so I assume we got similar deals. Makes a useful cushion against depreciation.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Hi Graham, that doesn't sound too bad. I suspect that due to their high square profile all 4x4s are more affected by higher cruising speeds than conventional cars. The the extra-urban figure for the Primera with the 2.2dCi engine is 56.5 and the Almera 60.1. I tend to sit at 80 on the clock, about 73 true speed, and probably pay the price. Looking at magazine reviews it seems most cars deliver a lot less than their official figures so I'll be more than happy with that 36mpg overall if I can get it. 

My original plan was to sell after a year too as that makes economic sense. I hadn't previously been a fan of 4x4s and just bought it out of curiosity but my wife is taken with it and it seems to suit us well so it might stay a little longer.


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## nobby67 (Dec 7, 2006)

Hi
new improved mpg 32 hurray well it is better and no over run.
Still not happy with the mpg, is there any thing else that could be wrong with the car apart from my heavy right foot??

Apart from that its a great car, a few rattles, but it goes around the farm well hasn't got stuck yet and zooms up the motorway.
Any help on this mpg think with euro 4 cars will be great
Happy Christmas
Nobby67


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

nobby67 said:


> Still not happy with the mpg, is there any thing else that could be wrong with the car apart from my heavy right foot??


I suspect the type of journeys it's used for and the weight of the right foot are probably the most important factors Nobby. One thing you could check is tyre pressures. I was using a newish own-brand gauge from Halfords to check mine but bought a Michelin footpump with gauge yesterday. Claims to be accurate to withing +/-1 ppsi and is spot on according to an Autoexpress review. If it is right then I've been running my tyres around 5lb under pressure which is a lot. I'm now optimistically hoping for huge gains in mpg.


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## The Mad Hat Man (Oct 3, 2006)

having read this thread with interest, albeit as (I thought) a bystander - I have a 2.0 petrol X-T Sport, I have a couple of observations.
1) before i bought my X-T, i rented a 56 plate diesel X-T that had the same misfire problem and decided that, having read many of the articles on the DCI, I would go Petrol (which is returning an average of 24.43 MPG over the last 3000 miles - varying between 20.4 and 30.6MPG. 
2) Since purchase (from Westway Basingstoke!!) I have only needed to fill with petrol - in the 13 months previous I owned a V6 Freelander which cost me £6300 in 13 months, not including Tax, Insurance etc. I consider myself (so far) very happy with the X-T.
3) As there seems to be several? people with continuing problems with the DCI, has anyone considered or tried contacting one of the numerous "customer " programs on the TV - such as "Watchdog"?
4) As this is an on-going problem - what would be the legal position for a prospective "new" owner if, before purchase, the purchaser gave to the dealer a letter stating that ....
a) "having herad of misfire and ECU problems on the Diesel X-T, the sale is conditional on this problem having been cured!"
and
b) "if this problem surfaces within, say, 12 months, the vehicle will be considered to be of not merchantable quality, the dealer will have failed to fulfill their part of the contract, and that the purchaser requires a refund, in full, of the purchase price!"


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

The Mad Hat Man said:


> 4) As this is an on-going problem -


As far as I know it isn't an ongoing problem. The tweak for the ECU sorted mine out and I haven't heard of anyone having a problem after having it done.

I think it centres on what is "merchantable quality". Mine only had the slightest misfire that I only noticed under certain conditions. It sounds as if it might have been worse on some cars. According to the service manager at my dealers only a few people have reported the problem to them. Could be a) they're fibbing b) not all cars were affected c) some owners haven't noticed or d) it's not bad enough for them to bother having it done.


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## storeyc (Oct 25, 2006)

flynn said:


> As far as I know it isn't an ongoing problem. The tweak for the ECU sorted mine out and I haven't heard of anyone having a problem after having it done.
> 
> I think it centres on what is "merchantable quality". Mine only had the slightest misfire that I only noticed under certain conditions. It sounds as if it might have been worse on some cars. According to the service manager at my dealers only a few people have reported the problem to them. Could be a) they're fibbing b) not all cars were affected c) some owners haven't noticed or d) it's not bad enough for them to bother having it done.


After doing a reasonable amount of research i find that the tweak to the ecu has actually moved the 'stammer' out of the normal rev range. You could say its a fix, or maybe just a solution.
Regarding fuel consumption, after visiting my dealer for the 2nd time, and sitting looking over the service managers shoulder while he searched for 'other' customers with mpg problems on the nissan technical questions system, there were many many people complaining, but all were met with a response of ' send them the official mpg figures'
My dci still only returns a max of 32mpg, how ever its driven, and believe me I have tried everything to try and bring the figures up. I opened a problem report with nissan in Dec and still await a reply.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Storey, where have you found a stammer since the ecu update? I rev mine pretty high at times but haven't noticed it as yet.

When you say you get 32 no matter how you drive, do you mean you get that whether pottering along at 60 on a motorway or hammering it around town? My last tank, apart from a hundred miles or so doing 80 on dual carriageway, was never out of a 30mph zone and I got 32.5 which I was pretty chuffed with as the official urban figure is about 30. I haven't noticed any difference either way since the update.

I don't think I'll lose too much sleep. For 10,000 miles at 32 mpg I'll use 312.5 galls which should cost £1250. If I get 36 mpg it would cost £1111. So I'd save £139 per year. Depreciation is likely to be maybe £3000 a year. I'll lose sleep over that instead.


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## storeyc (Oct 25, 2006)

flynn said:


> Storey, where have you found a stammer since the ecu update? I rev mine pretty high at times but haven't noticed it as yet.
> 
> When you say you get 32 no matter how you drive, do you mean you get that whether pottering along at 60 on a motorway or hammering it around town? My last tank, apart from a hundred miles or so doing 80 on dual carriageway, was never out of a 30mph zone and I got 32.5 which I was pretty chuffed with as the official urban figure is about 30. I haven't noticed any difference either way since the update.
> 
> I don't think I'll lose too much sleep. For 10,000 miles at 32 mpg I'll use 312.5 galls which should cost £1250. If I get 36 mpg it would cost £1111. So I'd save £139 per year. Depreciation is likely to be maybe £3000 a year. I'll lose sleep over that instead.


I was told by a nissan dealership that the remapping has taken the stammer out of the normal rev range, which indicates its not in a rev range the car could normally hit.
The nagging doubt i have with this is the possible link with turbo failures, which Im told is a common problem when you have faulty EGR valves. As the stammer was supposed to be due to the ECU not handling the EGR correctly, does this all start to link up ?
Re fuel consumption. My rule is not to drive above 2500 rpm, at any time, around town, or on a motorway, in an attempt to get the best fule consumption. My best figure of 32mpg was driving 180 miles to an airport, along Motorways, and then 180 miles back, not exceeding 2500 revs at any time, but 90% of the time sticking at 70mph on the cruise control. Im not bothered about the cost, Im bothered about nissan advertising good fuel figures, which seem impossible to obtain - on certain vehicles.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

If you can't make it stammer even if you try and I can't either then I don't think we've much to complain about. Bugger. 

If you are worried about the turbo why not take out their extented warranty for 5 years? If you take it out before the end of the first year I think I saw you even get full RAC membership thrown in which must be worth a fair bit. Then its their problem. Details on their site.

If you can't ever get more than 32mpg tops that may need sorting. I got that with my last tank almost all done around town in traffic on short journeys when the engine was cold most of the time. The lowest I've ever got was 30 which was on a long journey cruising at a speed that I shouldn't legally do.  On mixed driving provided I don't hammer it I can get 35mpg.

But for your journey at a constant 70mph that sounds not too far out to me. Tall vehicles like 4x4s have more wind resistance. If you can be bothered dropping down to cruise at 60 you'd probably see a huge increase. On the total cost of ownership it doesn't make a big difference if you do an average mileage.

I wouldn't take much notice of the published figures for any car. If you look at various long-term tests by mags like Whatcar the consumption they get is often spectacularly below the published figures. I noticed that Vauxhall give 3 different figures for the Astra for different sizes of wheel. Each 1" larger increases consumption by 1mpg. And in Whatcar they got 10mpg less for the Vauxhall diesel than the the official figure.

Wouldn't always take much notice of what some people claim they get either. Often it's just wishful thinking because they don't measure what goes in the tank brim to brim or it's just a single journey. Running a car is an expensive business but although people concentrate on mpg it isn't the biggest factor unless you're running a £300 banger.


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## Enufsaid (Aug 21, 2006)

Back in August (Posts 31 & 33) I commented on taking delivery of my 2.2dCi Columbia and the quick fix offered by the dealer for the judder. I think I just happened to be lucky time-wise as Nissan had just arrived at the 'final solution' and a new ECU was fitted - which certainly cured the problem. Since then I've done quite a bit of towing (1500kg of Bailey Senator) so had not had the chance to measure normal fuel consumption over a complete tankful until recently. Over the last two tankfuls I have averaged 37mpg. This is mostly for local (under 10 miles), some trips of 10 to 20 and 2 trips of 70 miles (per tankful). Seems to me to be reasonable, given the time of year and that the X-Trail is not the most aerodynamic of vehicles. 

For fellow caravanners, over 3,000 miles of towing fuel consumtion has been in the 25 to 28mpg bracket, depending on wind direction. Overall, we are very pleased with the car.


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## NoMoreBull (Aug 16, 2007)

*X Trail 2003 Diesel*

HELP HELP HELP,

I have just read with interest the problems that others have encountered with regards to engine hesitation. I honestly had thought that I was alone with this issue! However upon reading the comments it would seems that the problems/fixes are particular to 2006+ models.

Mine is a 2003 SE+ that's done 80K miles. The hesitation has been a recurring problem for 12 months or so now and both Nissan and independant garages have reported that they are unable to solve it due to no fault codes apprearing during the diagnostic checks and it always seems to drive fine when they run it. About nine months or so ago the Nissan mechanic did I believe apply an software upgrade but alas this is all that I know and he is no longer with Nissan.

I had an Major M3 service only 3 weeks ago and everything was fine and then first thing this morning, pulled out to overtake, no response, revs dropped, hesitation and then it was like this for approx 25 more miles.

I have called my local Nissan to inform them and it's booked in for a weeks time! My concern is that I get there again and have the no fault code, drives like a dream response.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## Sulphur man (Sep 6, 2005)

My 2005 diesel is still not running right. The Nissan garage don't want to know about any problem that doesn't throw them a code. I've recently contacted a specialist called A P Diesels and will be booking the car in for a full diagnosis by somebody who knows what they are talking about.

A.P. Diesels - Specialists In Diesel Injection Pump Repair


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

The misfire problem mentioned in this thread NMB was specific to 2006 models after they moved to the Euro Step IV requirements. It was a slight hesitation just as the engine went through about 2200 rpm and not above or below that. They fixed it with an updated program for the ECU. 

I think Sulphur's approach is the way to go if you've got a decent diesel specialist your way. Nissan dealers are ok for changing oil.


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## Sulphur man (Sep 6, 2005)

I've been saying I'll get mine fixed for nearly two years now. Even with the annoying engine troubles it's still a great car - testament to the super design. I need to get my skates on and get a report done before the warranty runs out (1 year left). Health problems have got in the way (see my other posts) but I'll be booking an appointment in the next month. I'll report back afterwards as it could be a similar problem to you 'NoMoreBull'...


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## Bods (Sep 16, 2007)

*X Trail Hesitation 2200rpm*

::newbie: 
I've have had my x trail since may it's an 06 2.2 only had 3500miles thought it was still tight, read and joined the forum today, is there any updates from Nissan regarding the fault? Mine is booked in for Tuesday but the ( Nissan) garage say they have never heard of the fault!
Strange thing I have described the fault virtually word for word as I have found and read today from this site ,wonder if there is any info i can throw at quote Tuesday


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Where have they been? 

I think the technical bulletin reference was EC 06/02 issued on 24 April 2006. The update was issued in August 2006. It might be worthwhile getting an assurance from them that they understand the problem and have the update otherwise what will they do? Perhaps suggest they have a word with Nissan if they really are that clueless and that their phone number is in the book if they don't know it.


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## Bods (Sep 16, 2007)

flynn
thanks for the info, will post results from tomorrow,will keep forum info print out up my sleave , if they try the never heard about this problem before sir blag .


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## Bods (Sep 16, 2007)

*shuddering X trail*

 

follow up to my visit to Nissan, they were suprised that the info I had from this forum was ( public domain) and the information was as good as suppressed Nissan information. As my 06 came into the VIN no batch as decribed Flynn , they said they have a down load mod for the ecu ,they wiped and re mapped the ecu over a week ago with no problem now with judder!
thanks for the input and info


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

That's good news Bod.

I wonder how many people are still driving around with the problem and accepting it? It's funny, some people seemed to hardly notice it while one owner got rid of his Xt taking a £6K loss, details in this thread I think, because he was fed up waiting for the fix. Fingers crossed, it should be as good as gold now.


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## Sulphur man (Sep 6, 2005)

The words: 'nose', 'face' and 'cut off to spite' come to mind...


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## Sulphur man (Sep 6, 2005)

By the way, I'm still waiting on my report but the specialist agrees there is a problem with my ECU, and also fixed a little problem with the turbo vane actuator while it was there. So help is coming for me, I hope.


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Sulphur man said:


> The words: 'nose', 'face' and 'cut off to spite' come to mind...


I think it was the new car, should be perfect disappointment thing and poor communications from Customer Services that wound him up. Wasn't too pleased with their this month, next month for the update stories myself. Lucky to have this board where we could all stamp our feet and call Nissan names together. 



Sulphur man said:


> By the way, I'm still waiting on my report but the specialist agrees there is a problem with my ECU, and also fixed a little problem with the turbo vane actuator while it was there. So help is coming for me, I hope.


Sounds if you're getting somewhere. Hope Nissan give you a box of chocs for your trouble.


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## Sulphur man (Sep 6, 2005)

flynn said:


> Hope Nissan give you a box of chocs for your trouble.


I was thinking more along the lines of some shares in Cadbury myself


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Sulphur man said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of some shares in Cadbury myself


Was a bit of excitement over them back in March but were back to 567p on Friday. You might be better with the chocs.


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## terryh (Oct 27, 2007)

*2.0 diesel : Intermittent loss of power / hesitation*

Wife is complaining of intermittent loss of power - not hers but the car. To me seems like air or fuel starvation. Will change oil, air and fuel filters and put redex into tank. Any other ideas - if it helps I was amazed too find a very dirty and slightly oily air filter !


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

This is a 2.0 diesel or the 2.2 sold in the UK? If the latter you may find a lot more info and experience of that engine on the Yahoo xtrailuk group. It wasn't sold worldwide.


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## terryh (Oct 27, 2007)

My bad - its 2.2 diesel. Perliminary suggestion is mas ait flow meter !


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## tiesto80 (Nov 13, 2007)

i believe am a victim..... 
2.2 dci T-SPEC uk, august 2005 registration..... "hesitation" ??? well, am on the 4th gear, accelerating to overtake a car... at 3500 - 4000 revs.. the car pulls back.. stalls.. freeze for few seconds.. then back again... 
Got the car for 2 months now..... noticed the problem last week... i ve been stressing the car since then, trying to re-generate the problem.... the rate was about 3/10 times that i tried to push the 4th gear..... 
question is: Could it be something else? (since my VIN is not included within the recals...) ....
It appears that am having similar problem with "Sulphur Man" (same model...)..
Anyway... the car is booked for an M3 service on the 15th Dec .... car is still under warranty.... 
I will get there (dealership) with a laptop and wifi... AND MAKE THEM READ ALL THREADS.... 
Thanks for the help guys....


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

The classic misfire problem only effected Euro step IV engines from Jan 2006 on tiesto. It was just a hiccup almost dead on 2300 rpm. Was fixed by updating the ECU setup in Aug 2006. Sounds as if yours is something else.

Hope it's all sorted for you when it goes in.


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## IanDelve (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi All,
I have a 2007 2.2DCi Columbia and have been reading about pre 2007 models with "hesitation" problems. I have done 5.5k in 8 months and had the vehical back at the dealers 3 times for the same problem. The first time they reset the ECU and their was no significant change. The second time they said that they could not fault it and the third time they had it for three days,put an extra 90 miles on the clock, and guess what No Fault Found. It has still got the same symptoms.
The vehicle does not seem to be throttle responsive. Acceleration is fine to 2500 revs but then the engine revs up past 3000 without any increase in acceleration. This is very noticeable in slow moving traffic, i.e. Rush hour driving, when constant low gear changes are required because you are not
traveling at a set speed or holding revs at around 2500. Any attempt to increase acceleration results in revs increase but speed does not. (This is apparent about 80% of the time). It is almost as if someone has notched the handbrake whilst driving. Hill starting in 1st gear will get you to 2500 revs and then it will just rev without any acceleration. The service department then went on to try to explain about the workings of the ECU and engine sensors and basically blinded me with science (or baffled me with b**s**t.......)
The XTRAIL is sold as "extremely capable", but at the moment it is "extremely incapable" and does not make for a pleasant driving experience. Anyone with a 2007 model had any similar experiences??


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## roj1943 (Aug 10, 2006)

Hi Ian

Er, have you checked your clutch? If your engine revs are increasing without any increase in vehicle speed, then there is probably a problem in the transmission, usually the clutch. 

Quote "Any attempt to increase acceleration results in revs increase but speed does not."

Roger.


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## theyoungsavage (Dec 6, 2008)

I've had my 06 2.2 Columbia for just over 2 yrs and have had no complaints other than the 30mpg consumption. Over the last month or two it's been losing acceleration (intermittently) around the 2000 - 2500 revs region . I've been thinking about taking it to the Nissan dealer where I bought while it's still under warranty it but if they don't 'fess up' to the problem and fix it then that could muck up my plan B which is to trade it in at the same place for something else. I'd like to keep a hold of the X-Trail as the flat-down seats allow me to carry all my band gear at weekends whilst it's also presentable enough for Mon-Fri at the office. So dilemma, to complain or not to complain? If Nissan own up to this problem and fix it then great but otherwise it has to go. Anyone have experience of how the Quashqai compares to the x-trail in space, consumption etc.
If I decide to take it back to the dealer I'll report back my results.
Cheers


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## bibster (Dec 22, 2008)

Hi,
I realise this thread was taking place over 12 months ago, but I was wondering if NoMoreBull got the problem with the "hesitation" sorted out. I've got a 2003 SVE 2.2DCi which seems to be experiencing similar symptoms, and once again there's no error codes appearing!!

What did mechanics do before error codes?!?!?!?!?!?

Cheers


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## rowlers (Sep 15, 2008)

have you changed the fuel filter? - seems to be a common cause


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## bibster (Dec 22, 2008)

It's only come out from having a full service (and I made sure they changed the filter). It went in with the problem, and has come out with the same problem. Once the engine has warmed up the problem seems to go away.......


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## rowlers (Sep 15, 2008)

that sounds like a sensor problem then (although I'm no mechanic!) MAF Sensors often fail without an error code not sure if this is common on the xt though


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## theyoungsavage (Dec 6, 2008)

*Problem solved*

I decided to suffer the power loss no more and took the car to the dealer. Service manager told me that the fuel filter was a common problem, unfortunately not covered by the warranty and more unfortunately £150. However that was 2 weeks ago and the problem seems to have gone completely, the car even seems a bit nippier too. Fingers crossed....


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