# LHD skylines?



## xpcgamer (Jun 8, 2004)

Ok I have read all I can on importation of skylines and it says no RHD car can be made legal to drive in the US. Period except the skyline. We all know what need to happen to that but jeeze what if the skyline was LHD? Go to this site and see.http://www.uaeboost.com/800-new/index.htm


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## scourge (Feb 27, 2003)

Doesn't matter. Look, the GTR issue has be covered and rehashed for years. Use the SEARCH function. That will answer all your questions.


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## GTES-t (Jan 2, 2004)

xpcgamer said:


> Ok I have read all I can on importation of skylines and it says no RHD car can be made legal to drive in the US. Period except the skyline. We all know what need to happen to that but jeeze what if the skyline was LHD? Go to this site and see.http://www.uaeboost.com/800-new/index.htm


Well, you'lll have to read the NHTSA import guidelines better, because RHD cars can be imported. Here's what the NHTSA site says:



NHTSA said:


> While there is no specific restriction on importing a right-hand drive vehicle, an eligibility number based on a substantially similar U.S.- certified motor vehicle may not apply. Our experience has shown that the safety performance of right-hand drive vehicles is not necessarily the same as that of apparently similar left-hand drive vehicles offered for sale in this country. However, we will consider them "substantially similar" if the manufacturer advises us that the right-hand drive vehicle would perform the same as the certified left-hand drive vehicle in crash tests. If the vehicle is not substantially similar to one sold in the U.S., the RI would have to demonstrate that the vehicle, when modified, would comply with the applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards, which could involve crash testing several vehicles.


The second option is what was done to the Skyline to add it to the list. Presently, the Skyline is the only RHD on the list, but any car could be added if an RI does the import tests. And don't even think about the option of contacting the manufacturer for the letter from them saying it fits the crash test results. No company will even do that because it puts them in a position to get a big lawsuit if there is an accident and someone tries to blame it on the vehicle being RHD. 

Also, vehicles over 25 years old are not required to be converted to present standards. So, if you import an old RHD car you don't even need to worry if it's on the list or not.

Here's NTHSA's import regulations page:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/


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## celm (Dec 15, 2003)

if u read the first few letter u see it says UAE.thats refereing to the middle east.cars there have to be converted to LHD if they were RHD


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## xpcgamer (Jun 8, 2004)

Ok Ok I was just thinking it was kinda weird to see a LHD skyline.


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## Nismo240 (Jul 24, 2004)

rhd are legalized. how else do u see them driving around??


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## Shalashaska (Sep 29, 2005)

That UAE site has been shifted to www.uaeboost.net .. Check out the new damn hot cars!!!!!


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

theres a kid at my school with a RHD integra, so i dont know what the fuck your smoking


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## GTES-t (Jan 2, 2004)

ICP Sux0rZ! said:


> theres a kid at my school with a RHD integra, so i dont know what the fuck your smoking


Again, the Nissan Skyline has been the ONLY RHD on the US import eligibility list. Here's the most current list as of August 2005:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ELIG081905.html

The requirement for RHD importation thru an RI and to be identified on the eligibility list as being RHD wasn't started until 2000. Prior to that non-US spec vehicles that had a US spec version could be imported under the substantially similar clause. Then in 2000 it was decided that RHD versions are not considered substantially similar due to addicents with RHD cars involved.

IF the RHD vehicle is over 25 years old, imported prior to RHD versions being excluded from the substantially similar clause (2000) or a Skyline imported legally thru Motorex, then it is a legitimate import. Some are LHD US models converted to RHD.

If it was not brought in by those means, it is most likely an illegal import. Often people take the VIN off of a junked US Spec vehicle (integra for example) and stick it on a RHD and import it in that way, illegally.


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## celm (Dec 15, 2003)

GTES-t said:


> Again, the Nissan Skyline has been the ONLY RHD on the US import eligibility list. Here's the most current list as of August 2005:
> http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ELIG081905.html
> 
> The requirement for RHD importation thru an RI and to be identified on the eligibility list as being RHD wasn't started until 2000. Prior to that non-US spec vehicles that had a US spec version could be imported under the substantially similar clause. Then in 2000 it was decided that RHD versions are not considered substantially similar due to addicents with RHD cars involved.
> ...


explain the noble!!
and dont say kit car.its a britsh or s.african car.
and i know a few noble owners and they have regular US titles.
as an individual you are allowed to import parts and build/assemble a car


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

list to celm, he knows what he is talking bout. you can have RHD cars. They can be US titles, but just aren't converted street legal. But you can register them and everything in the US.


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## GTES-t (Jan 2, 2004)

This has been covered before, that car is shipped in parts to the US and IS assembled under the Kit Car rules. It is sold WITHOUT drive train! Additionally, the USA Chassis are LHD! (here's the US site, look right under the picture! http://www.1gracing.com/m12.html )

It is this very reason that Noble is not bringing the M14 over to the US:


> The company won¡Çt try to crack the US market because it doesn¡Çt want the new sporster to be mistaken for a kit car


Here's the story: http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/news-test-drives/index.php

Now, remember the RHD version CAN be brought in by non-US citizens (ei. rich international businessmen) for 1 year under clause 5. And if I had the money to afford that car, I would. This is how the Koenigsegg was brought in for the Gumball 3000 a few years ago.

I love how you keep bringing up this expensive rare supercar to justify some illegally imported JDM vehicles, when you don't even know how the US spec version is available (without drivetrain and LHD).

BTW, it is a British car, they have a factory in South Afica, as most British companies have. The HQ factory is in Barwell, Leicestershire, England.


Again this is DIRECTLY from the vehicle import eligibility list: 


> Vehicles that have been determined eligible for importation are assigned a vehicle eligibility number. All eligibility numbers are for left-hand drive motor vehicles except where right-hand drive (RHD) is identified after the model.


The ONLY RHD on the list is the Skyline, feel free to look for yourself... http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ELIG081905.html

Again, this rule wasn't started until 2000, so prior to that JDM models WITH US spec counter parts (ie. Honda Integra) could be imported under the substantially similar clause.


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## celm (Dec 15, 2003)

This entire BS applies when you import a full running NON US car!!! That’s when the car has to be modified to meet US EPA and DOT. When an individual purchases parts and this goes for parts that were bought over seas. An individual has the right to assemble /build those parts into a vehicle. This applies to “individual” and that’s what we are talking about an individual, it’s totally different if a company does this and then sells the cars. That makes them the manufacture and that’s when the car has to comply with Dot and EPA. Even that 1g racing is a company there not selling a full running car, 1G racing sells the shell and from my conversation with dean Rosen of 1G racing. They have another company in another name that sells the motors.



GTES-t said:


> Now, remember the RHD version CAN be brought in by non-US citizens (ei. rich international businessmen) for 1 year under clause 5.
> QUOTE]
> 
> This is BS as well, you know how many skylines and aristos i know that was brought in under the passport, that’s box 5 on the HS-7 form and these guys always forget to export it after the year is up . I a friend of mine brought in a Pulsar GTi-R under his dads passport,yes box 5.And to tell you also the HS7 form has to be filled out even when you bring in a bare shell.
> ...


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## GTES-t (Jan 2, 2004)

Wow, I can tell you use the same Customs/import wording loopholes as the last Skyline import thread has.

First, 1GRacing, Noble's importer/seller does sell the shell and can arrange 'similar' spec engines thru 'connected' partners, which are US emissions compliant. Under EPA policy 1GRacing can't provide the drivetrain:


> If the parts constitute a disassembled vehicle or an approximate disassembled vehicle, the combination is considered a motor vehicle under the Clean Air Act. Any attempt to use this policy to circumvent the Clean Air Act or the Imports regulations will be considered a violation of the Clean Air Act and will be strictly enforced. An example of such circumvention is:
> 
> A kit car maker who also provides the engine and transmission before or after production/importation of the body/chassis.


Here's EPA's requirements: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/imports/kitcar.htm
An individual still is required to have a US emission compliant engine. Whether it is imported intact or in pieces

As far as Box 5, any US citizen taking advantage of it is taking advantage of a wording loophole. As the last Skyline import thread. The legal term of a Non-US resident, is someone who is NOT a US citizen and does not have a permanent US address. When it comes down to it, it is illegal for a US citizen to import a vehicle under that clause either thru ignorance or willful fraud.

The substantially similar clause info related to RHDs I mentioned IS correct. The example I used was a Honda Integra, which the JDM spec models prior to that year used the same US emission compliant engines as the US models. This is why Silvias and 180SXs could NOT be imported as substantially similar, because they do not have US emission compliant engines.
Now, the info about substantially similar clause I posted was about RHD previously being eligible before 2000. How does the fact that an EVO 7 being converted to LHD not being allowed in under that clause prove the RHD info wrong? It's a completely different subject! 
I would lay odds the the EVO 7 being denied on the fact that the engine is NOT US emission compliant. There is a US emission version of the engine in the US now, but the Euro Evos are not the same emissions. Which is why they have higher HP output versions. Plus there are other differences that are not within US specs.


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## celm (Dec 15, 2003)

GTES-t said:


> Wow, I can tell you use the same Customs/import wording loopholes as the last Skyline import thread has.
> 
> First, 1GRacing, Noble's importer/seller does sell the shell and can arrange 'similar' spec engines thru 'connected' partners, which are US emissions compliant. Under EPA policy 1GRacing can't provide the drivetrain:
> 
> ...


When was the last time you imported anything Auto related?
You haven’t been in the state for years now. All you are is an EPA/DOt web site cut and paster.

Look at box W on the Epa form. When was the last time you ever filled out a DOT hs7 and a EPA 3520-1?
That’s how much you know also. look at the Evo 7 DOt petition it never got denied and it never got approved. it just has the never ending pending!! and the euro evo`s are OBd2 98% the same as US OBD2, the JDM Evo`s weren’t. And for you info man, we got a 1 Evo 7 US EPA compliant. Just the DOt petition is pending. Do you ever reread what you write?

You wrote” I would lay odds the EVO 7 being denied on the fact that the engine is NOT US emission compliant.” 

Are you talking EPA or DOT? What am I asking you, you don’t even know what agency you are referring to?
Arguing with you is like arguing with a retard 
best you hear more shit fom the people that never attempeted what people do for a living.WTF do i know!! i guess my US titled JDM`s i have is just a figment of my imagination


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## GTES-t (Jan 2, 2004)

You know, it's obvious that we are not going to agree. I am talking about strictly legal importation, which is what should be discussed on this forum. You are talking about importation loopholes and work arounds.

You've heard from me before on what I think of your imported vehicles, they are strictly speaking illegal. Until I see one of your vehicles on the vehicle importation eligibility list and you can produce a letter of conformity, I don't want to hear about your work-around imported EVO, GTI-r, etc.

I have been actively importing and exporting vehicles which originally started due to living overseas. Which is why I KNOW on the HS-7 that clause 5 does NOT apply to me. Even though I have no permanent US address, I am still, legally speaking, a US resident.

As far as the EPA Declaration Form, Box W is so that the engine is excuded from inspection upon importation, because it is impractical for them you emission test every engine imported.

However the completed vehicle is required to be EPA compliant. Are they going to check, no. Are you going to take advantage of that, yes.

As far as you Evo, petition, I said denied because I don't see it on the list of pending petitions: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/import_eligibility_08_31_2005.html
So, tell me your docket number for the petition and I will look at what DOT has or doesn't have. If you did submit it, and it's not on this list, it was most likely a status 9, dismissed as incomplete.

As far as the emissions for it. OBD2 doesn't mean it is within emissions. It's a diagnostic interface that is required, why do you keep bring up things that are not part of the original conversation and don't pertain to it? As I said the euro EVO is not within emissions, and congratulations on getting 1 within EPA emission requirements, it isn't very difficult. It does have a US counterpart, which saves a LOT of testing.

As far as what agency I'm talking about, surely a career importer like yourself will know which agency is involved with each aspect of this conversation. I'll give you a hint, if I'm talking about emissions, it's EPA related since DOT/NHTSA doesn't care about it other then the forms and letters required.


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## celm (Dec 15, 2003)

answer this question,
so what 1G racing is doing is legal in your opinion?

Evo 8 petition
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.cfm?documentid=246539&docketid=15470

evo 7 petition
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.cfm?documentid=253462&docketid=16031


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## GTES-t (Jan 2, 2004)

1GRacing is following the legal requirements for Kit Cars, which is what they provide. In that strictest sense, they are performing within their legal limits.

Whether I agree with import/kit car regulations isn't the subject, I just have to follow them.

I looked at the Evo info, but you didn't mention the associated documents such as Mistubishi's replies:
EVO 7 
EVO 8 

That explains why the Evo has been on the never ending pending status. With letters from Mitsubishi themselves showing, quite frankly, some things a RI should not have missed, I wouldn't be surprised if NHTSA reviewed their status as a RI.

It's not NHTSA/DOT sitting on these, but up to the RI to follow up and prove that the EVOs can be conformed. Something that doesn't look like it's being pursued considering the last entry on the Evo 7 was 2 years ago and the Evo 8 a year ago.


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## celm (Dec 15, 2003)

GTES-t said:


> 1GRacing is following the legal requirements for Kit Cars, which is what they provide. In that strictest sense, they are performing within their legal limits.
> 
> Whether I agree with import/kit car regulations isn't the subject, I just have to follow them.
> 
> ...


it had nothing to do with the RI.we pulled the plug on continuing the evo petition.cause when something submitted to DOT for review,they dont jump on it its months later before they review it.then mitsu comes back with there responce and more months pass.we come back with our and so on.mitsu has the $ to drag and drag it on for ever.we were about to Xray a US evo and the euro evo,buy then people lost interst in the car cause US had there version

and the noble isnt a KIT car in UK,and i know 2 noble owners and saw there titles its a plan US title,no kit,salvage or what ever on it


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## GTES-t (Jan 2, 2004)

celm said:


> and the noble isnt a KIT car in UK,and i know 2 noble owners and saw there titles its a plan US title,no kit,salvage or what ever on it


I know the Noble isn't a kit car in the UK, I never said it was, however, again that is not part of the subject of this conversation and has no bearing on it either.

As far as US titles, those are dealt with at the state level, and the state will title anything, doesn't mean it's EPA/DOT/NHTSA legal or not. Some states don't even put kit car remarks on the titles. People often get around the system and not have the remarks on the title.


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

well skylines are a lot different than many other cars. You both have your points, but legalizing a skyline is a little more complicated that many other cars. Unless you have it registered as a track only or show only car, you can't bring them overhere without being legalized. Other cars you can bring over as assembly car (a rolling chasis and then rebuild) and its can be US titled and legal to drive on the street, but not a fully NHTSA and DOT approved car. Celm has a GTIR and an EVO 7, both are legally allowed on the street, both are legal, just not DOT and NHTSA approve IIRC.


I dont really see the problem driving as kit car around anyway as i see them all the time, except they are muscle cars instead of JDM cars. I dont believe there is a difference. Hell i would love to have a JDM "kit car or whatever its called" for a weekend driver.

You both are kind of fightin a dead horse. Skylines can not just be converted to LHD and be considered US legal, cuz you would also need the DOT approved LHD headlights and need a lot of other custom parts to be able to do that. Secondly, many of the cars you guys are talkin bout, besides the noble, have US counterparts which makes it easier to bring over here.


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## celm (Dec 15, 2003)

you will now have both side of teh spectrum.
the one that say it ilegal and you cant have it and the one that say FCUK it i want it it regardless.

i think DOT wont allow another RHD JDM car to be federalized for a long time.i think after the current guys in DOT retire,maybe there is a chance again.I think MX just put a bad taste in there mouths.

but if individuals import parts and build a car,you wont have have problems


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

celm said:


> you will now have both side of teh spectrum.
> the one that say it ilegal and you cant have it and the one that say FCUK it i want it it regardless.
> 
> i think DOT wont allow another RHD JDM car to be federalized for a long time.i think after the current guys in DOT retire,maybe there is a chance again.I think MX just put a bad taste in there mouths.
> ...


the simple version of what i said:thumbup:


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## celm (Dec 15, 2003)

:cheers:


psuLemon said:


> the simple version of what i said:thumbup:


 :cheers:


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## GTES-t (Jan 2, 2004)

psuLemon said:


> Unless you have it registered as a track only or show only car, you can't bring them overhere without being legalized.


That's been an often mistaken comment on the forums also. A Skyline can be a Race car, but it's still difficult. Newbs are often mislead that they just say it's a race car and it comes in. When in reality you have to have a race license, a list of race modifications that make it non-road legal, what race series it's in along with a schedule of events, etc, etc.

And the "Show Car" thing has been false for years. The Skyline fails to meet show car requirements for two main reasons. 1, it's a mass production vehicle over 500 units. 2, it can be imported/converted to meet US standards.
Most people, including me, who know the import regulations have been trying to correct this misconception for some time. Well, some idiot recently did try to import a Skyline under the show car rules, and as we've said, it is on the disapproved list:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ShowDisplay/sdlist06202005.html

I say idiot because, there are a few rare models of the Skyline that could qualify for the Show car rules, for example the R33 400R & R34 Z-Tune.
However, when there is a Skyline already listed on the ineligible list, it lowers the odds of the ones that are truely deserving of being considered.

But, it was bound to happen do to the amount of people on the forums who think and tell others the Skyline can be imported as a show car.


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## psuLemon (Apr 23, 2003)

gtes-t, sorry i should have explained myself more. I know its going to be hard to bring it over as a show or track car. So i do apologize for not explaining myself in much detail as i am at work when i post. I will agree with you that the skyline is prolly one of the hardest cars to bring to the US no matter the condition. Now other JDM cars, its a little simple and you can get them over as kit cars or whatever you want to label them as and US title them. But there are ways to get a skyline over here. Hell if 96skylineguy can do it anyone else can. Now whether or not they have to be exported back after a year is another story. Mainly if you can prove your reasonings to the NHTSA and DOT for bringin the car over, then it is feasible. There are skylines all over the US. Especially NY, Cali and Florida. Hell a guy from texas bought a Z-tune when it first came out and its over in the States. If you have enough money you can do anything. But for a common person, its virtually impossible to just bring over a skyline. It just isn't happening. I think, me, you and Celm can all agree that the skyline isn't a simple car to bring over. Im sure you both know a lot bout importing as it has seem like you both have done it (well i know celm has) but i have not. I know from research the extent of work that needs to happen to bring a skyline over and even more work to keep it here.


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## celm (Dec 15, 2003)

a lot of people aren't clear when they say show car and race car.

The DOt web site for a show car is allowing it to be driven on the road. You can have a non titled skyline and take it to shows and be a show car. Just have to trailer it as well as making it a race car. I know 95% of the people that have race cars only use it on the track; they don't care about diving it on the roads

And you are saying it's a hard car to import, Its Yes and NO.
if you are trying to import it as a whole CAR, yes it can be hard cause the POS says skyline on it .but to be honest with ya,if you have a good customs broker that doesn't pussy out in front of a US customs agent that's key right there. Im blessed to have one like that.

But if you bring the skyline in as components, they have to clear it because if you remove what they consider will make an automobile then it's not an automobile.
believe me DOT and EPA know whats going on here,but people use there laws that they wrote.thats why EPA wants that you cant import a FULL JDM motor,they tried passing a bill for that and got shot down.Bush is good for something,i dont think oil tycoons mix well with the tree hugging hippies at the EPA
this is my .02 cents


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