# 2016 Versa Note - Transmission issue?



## BillHoo (Nov 13, 2006)

I know this may sound like im , heading for a death of 1000 cuts. But I’m looking for opinions on my recent trip from New Jersey to Virginia, where my check engine light went on, and it turned out to be a nicked transmission line, resulting in no power about 4 miles from getting home and being stuck at the light.
I’ve been stuck at a traffic stop for the past four hours waiting for a tow truck.

Car had no power could not shift. Engine runs fine. I was able to keep warm in the 27°F weather. But I could not shift gears from park through drive.

Any thoughts on the repercussions of driving a car till it was dry?

Realized that there was a trail of transmission fluid leading up to my car. Earlier I had run over a tree branch that might have nicked the transmission hose.

Any thoughts on the repercussions of driving a car till it was dry? 

just dropped off car at garage. Will find out in the morning.


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

Usually when there's a major leak the tranny will lose hydraulic pressure so quickly that there's little or no damage, it just quits working. So it depends to some extent on how bad the "nick" was, worse is actually better. Your assumption is correct, you won't know for sure until they get fresh fluid into it and warm it up.


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

PS - I know it was probably a matter of survival in this cold weather, so please don't kick yourself, but running it with the tranny dry may have damaged the front pump. The pump and the input side of the torque converter are the only parts still spinning when you're in P or N. The pumps are pretty stout and have little side loading, so I'd say there's a good chance it survived anyway, but if it shows low Line Pressure after it's refilled then that will probably be the reason.


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## BillHoo (Nov 13, 2006)

Thanks!

so, i was headed home this morning. at the start of my 240 mile trip, my check engine light went on.

i thought maybe i had some bad gas and my fuel filter might be clogging up. due to icing as it was 18 degrees F.

about 70 miles in, the car started running rough.

at 140 miles i got gas at a rest stop and continued on, but thee ride got rougher.

had to slow down halfway thru Maryland due to a an accident in the road. after that, car wass very rough getting back up to speed.

finally crossed into Virginia aand ccad stopped at a light maybe 4 miles from home.

While waiting for the tow truck, I only ran the engine for a few minutes every now and then to warm up the cab and to ensure that the battery didn’t die wildly hazard lights were flashing. This was basically from 2 to 6:30 pm.

btw. the car has 160k miles on it. i had bought it used in 2018 with 49k miles on it.


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## BillHoo (Nov 13, 2006)

the garage was not open today. I drove (my wife's car) to a local Nissan dealer to get a couple quarts of Nissan CVT fluid. I went to my garage and put them on the passenger seat for the mechanic when he gets in tomorrow. 

Keeping fingers crossed.


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## BillHoo (Nov 13, 2006)

Only one mechanic in the shop this week. Still have not looked at my car! Car has been out in the lot all week and hasn't moved.

Tempted to just go there and jack the car up, repair the leak and top off with CVT fluid.

If it's just a puncture or nick in the steel transmission cooling line, I might be able to just take a section of hi-pressure hose and slit it lengthwise to put over the leak, then use several ring clamps to tighten over it. 

Then it's a matter or removing the following to access the dipstick port:

coolant overflow bottle
mass air hose
battery
ECU

Long thin screwdriver to push in the clip that holds the dipstick port cover down, and I would finally have access to pour transmission fluid in from the top.

This could get me down the road 4 miles to my house, or the dealer garage I go to (17 miles away) for a more permanent fix.


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## BillHoo (Nov 13, 2006)

Went to the garage and looked at the car in the daylight. 

Poked around where I thought it might be leaking and did not find any signs of leaking. All the lines and hoses dry. 

Last dealer service, they had mentioned a seal in the CV axle they recommended service, but I had declined at the time. Wonder if that is the leak?

Anyway, I called the dealer and got an appointment for today, and a tow to pick up the car.

As a I called the local garage, they told me they were going to look at it after lunch. I told them a tow was already on the way.


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## BillHoo (Nov 13, 2006)

OK. Dealer service says transmission fluid levels are good and they have been DRIVING THE CAR AROUND NO PROBLEMS aside from a slight hesitation.

Says codes P0420 for the Bank 1 Catalytic Convertor and heavily rusted and slight leak at the Manifold, and P0101 for the Mass Airflow sensor.

She said those things could feel like a transmission slippage. Recommends replacement. Mass Airflow Sensor parts and Labor over $600 and Manifold replacement at over $4500.

However, I asked if those things would prevent the car from shifting gears or going into reverse? She said she would ask the tech.

Mass Airflow Sensor I could buy and install myself. I'd rather not do the manifold and catalytic convertor myself, so I might have them do it.

My guess is the TCM is at fault and needs replacement or reset?


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

TCM's very rarely fail. I'm wondering if maybe your tranny got overheated. Overheated fluid will cause a dead-horse limp from "self protection" but won't turn on the MIL. Did they by any chance read the CVT-A/CVT-B values (the overheat record in the TCM)? If not, if you have a 'Droid phone or access to one, there's an app called CVTz50 that can tell you everything going on in your tranny, including CVT-A/B. You just need a $20 bluetooth-OBD adaptor to stick in the diag port. The VeePeak VP11 is the cheapest one I know about that works right (the app can be fussy about the adaptor you use). Not only that, but CVTz50 has IAVL work support for that MAF code. P0101 is almost never a hardware failure, so you should try cleaning and recalibrating your existing MAF before you throw hardware at it. The other common causes for P0101 are a dirty Throttle Body, bad PCV Valve, or a small vacuum leak (although that will usually be accompanied by lean codes).


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## BillHoo (Nov 13, 2006)




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## BillHoo (Nov 13, 2006)

Thanks for the insights!

As for overheadting fluid... The temps were in single digits that weekend. That's why I initially thought this was maybe a clogged fuel filter. I've done this trip of 480 miles round trip about once every two weeks that past few months. But I guess it could happen.

I had similar shuddering performance back in October and thought it was bad gas,or bad fuel filter. No check engine light. That went away after a fresh tank. So I thought nothing of it.

Does limp mode put it in a state where I cannot shift gears at all? I couldn't even go into reverse. And stepping on the gas just made the engine rev, but no shift in gears or movement.

The service rep said they would check the TCM while they work on the manifold and replace the cat. I've been smelling exhaust for the past 6 months, especially when idling at traffic lights. But other garage I go to for oil changes and brake work told me they didn't see anything. 169K miles, I figure the catalytic converter might need to be replaced.

NOTE: Just before the trip up to NJ I poured some LucasOil Fuel treatment in the tank. The bottle was outside overnight when temps dropped to 8 deg F and came out like thick molasses. Another reason why I thought I had a clogged fuel filter. Maybe that stuff had affected the cat?

I have an old bluetooth code reading dongle somewhere. I'll give it a try when I get the car back.

I'll try cleaning the MAF sensor. I've used the spray before with good results on a different car. Might even still have some spray around.


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## BillHoo (Nov 13, 2006)

OK. The mechanic installed new exhaust manifold and catalytic convertor for around $4500. Says he tested the Mass Airflow sensor and it was good.

Vehicle had some hesitation, so he found the ECM and TCM were not up to date on the latest firmware.

He updated the program and now the car throws a P0868 code - Transmission Fluid Pressure Low.
Says Cat and Manifold are not leaking and "the transmission is feeding off its actual power. As vehicle gets hotter it is making the torque convertor slip."
The mechanic checked the CVT fluid levels and they are full.
Dealer recommends new Transmission - install $6200 +Tax/SS
Says she can discount to $5690.

Doing some research, I find the cause of this can be the following:

Defective transmission fluid pressure sensor <-- this would throw P0745
Damaged wiring or connectors <-- Maybe
Low fluid levels caused by fluid leaks <-- Nissan sees no leaks
Dirty or contaminated transmission fluid <-- Nissan flushed Sep 2022
Defective transmission fluid temperature sensor <-- Maybe
Pressure pump failure <-- Maybe
Faulty PCM <-- Maybe
I'm thinking about just taking the car back and doing a test drive. If she offers to give me the discounted price if I bring it back, I can shop around for a cheaper transmission shop.

Or I can try to replace parts myself. I have access to a auto craft shops at various military posts. So I can put it on a lift and have tools available.

I'm thinking of replacing the CVT fluid filter and putting in fresh fluid
Replace transmission cooler filter
Maybe test and/or replace the pump
Maybe install an external transmission cooler?

Thoughts?


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

BillHoo said:


> Thanks for the insights!
> 
> As for overheadting fluid... The temps were in single digits that weekend. That's why I initially thought this was maybe a clogged fuel filter. I've done this trip of 480 miles round trip about once every two weeks that past few months. But I guess it could happen.
> 
> ...


There are many conditions in the CVT that could cause the CVT to drop into "fail safe mode". The Transmission Control Module (TCM) has a fail-safe mode. The mode functions so that operation can be continued even if the signal circuit of the main electronically controlled input/output parts is damaged.

If the CVT only goes into "fail safe mode" when fully warmed up, then the suspected failing component may possibly be the CVT temperature sensor circuitry; this is just a guess, so* the code readout is essential*. DTC's P17F0 and P17F1 never turn on the MIL on any Nissan model. P17F0 is the CVT "death code", it means severe chain slippage was detected. There are "judder detection" codes in almost everything 2013 and up that give a quick estimation of the CVT's condition and usually determine what fix is applied. 
P17F1 generally means a new Valve Body as long as a chain inspection doesn't reveal damage. Minor slippage causing a P17F1 can often be resolved with timely fluid changes; you can still possibly save your CVT by replacing the fluid ASAP but don't do a fluid flush, just a drain/fill only. A flush can possibly introduce fine particles into the system further complicating the issue.

To be able to read CVT codes, download a copy of the CVTz50 app for an android smartphone and get a *VeePeak VP11 adaptor for your OBD-II port* (the VP11 is the cheapest ELM327 that works correctly with CVTz50, not all of them do). With that, you can read any CVT codes yourself, read the CVT temperature in realtime, and also check the CVT-A/CVT-B count for any history of overheating. If something bad did happen, at least you'll get an inkling of what it was from the past evidence by seeing that the counts are greater then zero.

Judder will be most pronounced on a moderate to steep incline with light acceleration. Let off the gas at mid-hill, let the car coast momentarily down to 20~30 mph, then apply enough pedal to roll back up to speed. It should transition smoothly. If you feel any shuddering or surging, or the tach starts jumping around without pedal input, that's judder.


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## BillHoo (Nov 13, 2006)

rogoman said:


> There are many conditions in the CVT that could cause the CVT to drop into "fail safe mode". The Transmission Control Module (TCM) has a fail-safe mode. The mode functions so that operation can be continued even if the signal circuit of the main electronically controlled input/output parts is damaged.
> 
> If the CVT only goes into "fail safe mode" when fully warmed up, then the suspected failing component may possibly be the CVT temperature sensor circuitry; this is just a guess, so* the code readout is essential*. DTC's P17F0 and P17F1 never turn on the MIL on any Nissan model. P17F0 is the CVT "death code", it means severe chain slippage was detected. There are "judder detection" codes in almost everything 2013 and up that give a quick estimation of the CVT's condition and usually determine what fix is applied.
> P17F1 generally means a new Valve Body as long as a chain inspection doesn't reveal damage. Minor slippage causing a P17F1 can often be resolved with timely fluid changes; you can still possibly save your CVT by replacing the fluid ASAP but don't do a fluid flush, just a drain/fill only. A flush can possibly introduce fine particles into the system further complicating the issue.
> ...


Thanks! I think I'll download the CVTz50 app and get a VP11. I have an old bluetooth ELM scanner (bought around 2009) that probably doesn't work with the app.

What annoys me is the dealer service didn't catch my complaint when I reported in October that the car had started making a whining or ringing noise when it hit 65 mph. Though I'm not sure what they would have done to remediate that. The whining started shortly after the dealer did a CVT fluid flush in September.

Rather than go with their transmission replacement at $6000+, I'll get the car back today and I think I'll bring to another shop to see what they charge.

Or, I'll start with:

Drain the CVT fluid
Replace the transmission filter
Replace the transmission cooler filter
replace the pan gasket
replace the CVT fluid
Reset the TCM

If the P0868 code comes back, I'll see what another garage says.

What are your thoughts on getting an external transmission oil cooler - the kind that goes in front of the radiator?


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## BillHoo (Nov 13, 2006)

OK. Just picked up the car.

I left a message for them at 7:30 AM that I would prefer to just take the car from them and pay for whatever work they did. I asked for a rain check on the transmission just in case, I wanted to go back.

1 o’clock they finally got back to me and said that I can pay everything online. Otherwise I have to pay a 1% service charge at the desk.

Paid everything online and then came back to them and asked if they could provide me a Lyft?
Took them an hour, but they arranged for a car to pick me up from my home. Got there at 2:30. And got the car back.…

Why the heck did they not explain the drive ability status of the car?!!

When they told me, the mechanic drove it around and it was bucking a little bit I thought OK fine, it moves so I should be able to just drive it home until I decide what to do with it.

I started the car and drove out of the garage, immediately, noticing the delay in moving when I stepped on the gas, just a second before it starts to move. Then it started bucking as I picked up speed out of the garage.

I pulled over into the parking lot and tried the TCM reset procedures to see if that would do anything. Does not appear that those procedures for doing a reset on a Nissan apply to the Nissan versa.

I decided I just drive off and get to my alternate garage to get a transmission assessment.

I was careful pulling out of the side street because I figured the transmission would be sluggish. It was.

Got over to the intersection of the highway and that’s when everything went to kablooey!
From a dead stop at the light, I stepped on the gas, and it would not move. It was basically just a little bit of movement. A baby would’ve run faster than this car!

I put on my flashers to the annoyance of those behind me, and slowly turned into another side street.

Pulling over, I looked up the garage that I wanted to bring it to. 18 miles away going through the freeway!
I shut off the car and started it up again, and it moved! OK, I can work with this.

I figured out a process in which I would drive down the side streets, stopping at the intersections, and then shutting everything off, then starting the engine again and moving.

The service road was my friend. But eventually I had to take the freeway. Going out onto the main highway. I tried to time my speed so that I would not have to stop at a light.

Finally made the on ramp to the freeway, and made it to the garage.

Explained everything to the manager, without giving him Nissan's assessment. He basically said it sounds like I need a new transmission. His estimate was roughly $1000 less but he wouldn’t be able to be sure until they actually looked at the car.

He did not seem open to considering replacement of transmission filters.

This shop looks really busy as they were dozens of cars spilling out into the street parked in various places. But he was willing to put me in the line along with everyone else.

We’ll see.…


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## BillHoo (Nov 13, 2006)

The transmission shop called me the other day while I was in the middle of a fishing trip.

They were able to look at the car and said it threw up two trouble codes,one of which indicated severe internal damage to the CVT transmission. They recommended a new transmission at a cost that was a thousand bucks cheaper than the dealer.

I approved the purchase of a new transmission and told them to go ahead and do the install. I should get the car back next week.

I wish I were not half frozen from being out on the water, otherwise I would have asked for the other trouble code. I don't doubt I need a new transmission. I just like seeing what's going on inside.


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

They probably printed it out, ask them for the sh!t sheet. One will probably be P17F0 for the belt or P17F4 for the planetary clutch. The other one is a crapshoot, maybe a low pressure code.


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