# Awd B13 Se-r



## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

Alright now, I know that this discussion has gone through here plenty of times, but I'm going to be the first to try it. I want to convert my B13 SE-R into AWD with the use of a GTi-R engine and tranny. I need to know what everyone thinks I will need and any tips you guys can give me. I'm enrolled at school for automotive tech so I have all the tools and time and help that I will need. What I'm thinking here is that if I buy a GTi-R front clip I should have most of what I need. I've read that I would need to replace the factory fuel tank in my SE-R for clearance and that I would also have to do some cutting out of the trunk where the spare goes. What my plans are for that is just to mount some aluminum in the trunk and mount in a fuel cell. That would take care of both of those problems. Another thing I'm wondering is if the engine is a straight drop-in, or if I'd need custom engine mounts or whatever. Any info you guys can give me would be great. Thanks in advance.


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## PrOxLaMuS© (Aug 11, 2002)

Well, good luck on this... hopefully you will become the first to accomplish this.

I can't give you any info on it.. cause I don't know alot about if you can drop the motor straight in, but I think you should be able to.

You would just need a drive-shaft and differentails and etc. for your project. I think you will need new rear axles.. prob front, and you will need mounts, and a bunch other crap.

If you can get this done, keep us updated! Hell, if you can get it done, or you can't afford it, look around for sponsers, and call magazine companies and ask for Photo-shoots and stuff. It should pay for it if u need it 

Ah.... maybe the impossible will be done.

I wouldnt buy a Front Clip... just buy a new Engine... cuz you cant really trust clips.


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## 91SR20DE (Nov 25, 2002)

well, this is the way I thought it out. GTI-R motor trans, you'll have to raise the steering rack to make room for the rear drive shaft. Run the drive shaft down the exhaust tunnel, take a s13 IRS and fabricate it into the rear with some tubular supports. Cut out the spare tire well, replace it with a big piece of sheetmetal , and mount the fuel cell to that. Now the exhaust that we don't have any room for, take 1 1/2" tube, split it down the middle, section it as wide as you need to get the same volume as 3" piping run it to the left of the driveshaft untill it comes out where you want it. I had more details to this, but I can't remember them, but when I do, I'll post again. Have fun and post some pics!!


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## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

i will definately keep everyone posted on this but i dont plan on starting this project for a few weeks at least. i dont want to get too involved with it until i know enough to finish it. i think that my biggest concern is going to be the rear suspension. any one else have any ideas on this? i've read posts saying to replace the rear subframe with one off the gti-r and use that suspension, but will all that really be necessary?


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

I'll tell you what I believe to be true from my own research on this matter.The B13 and N14 both have the same wheelbase,so you can use the GTiR central driveshaft.It is a 3 piece unit with 2 carrier bearings,one at each joint.You will need to make sure that the rearend has the EXACT same gear ratio as the front,otherwise you'll tear up the transfer case and transmission. They also both have almost exactly the same track width(within 1/2 inch). I would get the ENTIRE rear suspension subassembly (it's all in one convenient bolt in subframe)-including the brakes,struts and springs.You should make a seperate weld in subframe that ties the rear of the car together(because your car was never intended to take power at the rear)that you can bolt the GTiR subframe to.The GTiR subframe is held to the body with 4 bolts.I would also use the brakes-including the master cylinder and proportioning valve-from the GTiR.I would try to get a GTiR fuel tank instead of the fuel cell.It would put the weight of the fuel and tank in a more advantageous place with regards to weight distribution and center of gravity.It may even just bolt in,and then you have a fuel pump that can handle the engine too. The biggest question I have is wether or not the rear struts will bolt in to the B13 chassis,and if they do,will they give a good camber angle?Oh,one more thing.The exhaust will now have to be run outside the driveshaft tunnel.The catalytic converter on the GTiR has it's own "kick up"in the floor pan.s an added bonus,you could probably use an aftermarket exhaust for a GTiR in the B13 since they both are dimensionally almost identical.well, that's all I can think of for now.If you do it,please let me know!I'd love to hear about it!


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

Oh,and one more thing,it's MUCH easier to use the GTiR subframe than to have to fabricate all of your own suspension mounting points.There is a possibility of getting the geometry wrong,and then you have a very unsafe vehicle.Also,the 240 is a wider car than the b13 is,so you would have to narrow the suspension,AND match the gear ratios in order to use it.Otherwise the struts will not line up in the towers and you will damage the transfer case(according to a swedish site,the final drive ratio is 4.125:1)because of ratio mismatch(unless they share the same ratio).


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## 91SR20DE (Nov 25, 2002)

I like himilefrontier's ideas better!! That sounds way easier! I forgot about the gear ratios, we had one truck go into durability tests with the wrong ratios, the trans blew up and hit the pavement. Not pretty.


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## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

since we're on the subject of swaps and all, who knows of a reliable place to get the engine and tranny from? i'm looking for someplace that includes the ecu and harnesses and if possible the intercooler and piping, altho i'm not too concerned with that. and also, i was wondering if anyone knew of anywhere that i could order all the differentials and driveshafts and such. any thoughts on this would be very helpful. and i'm looking at about a $4000 budget to begin with, and i will have more once the project gets underway. let me know what you guys think.


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## toolapcfan (Jul 10, 2002)

You need a bigger budget. You're going to drop $4K without blinking an eye. Apparently they made an AWD Sunny, since that's the same platform I'd start thinking about using parts from that, should save you a lot of hassle. I wonder what it'd cost to have a running AWD sunny shipped over? Then just swap all the stuff onto/into your SE-R. You've got a lot of homework to do before you buy anything though. I wouldn't expect to turn a wrench for at least a month.

What I think would be cool to attempt would be a dual engine B13 SE-R, like has been done to the old Tiburon a few times. The real hitch though would be shifting, because I'd want to do manual trannies, not autos. The clutch release, and throttle would be easy enough to rig but shifting two manual trannies at the same time from one shifter, that'd be tricky as hell to figure out. No to mention you'd need some big ass brakes to stop that thing, and I'm not sure how it would handle.


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## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

first off, it's damn near impossible to ship an entire car over to the US from overseas due to all the smog legal stuff and everything else. it would cost way too much. and also, the sunny isnt equipped with an SR20, it's powered by an SR18 due to a shorter stroke. and the $4g's that i listed was also a starting point. more cash will be flowing in when needed. that isnt so much of a problem. but since i'm writing here, i was wondering something. why exactly is everyone saying that i would need the rear subframe assembly from a pulsar? why wouldnt i be able to use the one i have?


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

Not to be mean,but have you crawled around under your Sentra's rearend lately?When I first started my research into this swap,I thought it might be possible to reuse the stock suspension,until I went to the junkyard (on my weekly trip through the local self serve chain)and actually looked underneath one(I don't actually own one-yet).The spare tire well is the mounting point for a "C" shaped piece of sheetmetal that the lower control arms bolt to.You will be eliminating this to mount the differential,and where would you put the diff if you don't?You have to remember that you are totally changing the nature of the rear half of the car.It was originally designed only to take up and down wheel movements,NOT high shock loads!Nissan's ATTESSA AWD system(unlike that of Subaru)is full time RWD,and the front wheels are only active when the rears slip.You would be asking a VERY thin piece of sheetmetal to absorb and transfer as much horsepower as a 5.0 Mustang(225 vs 227) to the ground-the result would not be pretty(In fact,FOX Fords have stress crack problems in their floorpans and torque boxes and the're designed as RWD,and built of similar light gauge steel!)If you go to my homepage,and click on where it says "some of my other ideas",I have some links to some good GTiR sites that have technical diagrams,and a picture of the underside of a GTiR.Put simply,that suspension is not designed for high shock loads,or the torsional loads imparted by trying to spin the rear wheels.Remember Newton's 3rd law of motion: every action causes a equal and opposite reaction.The Torque used to move the wheels forward will cause the differential to want to rotate up into the floorpan!Don't believe me?Then why do old Mopar Super Stocker's use pinion snubbers to control the upward rotation of the pinion support on the axlehousing?Use the GTiR suspension.It's by far the simplest way to go(and it's only .1 inch wider than stock!)If you'd like some further reasons(I could write a book!),please feel free to e-mail me,and I'll explain all of the science and theory behind this.

(and in case you're wondering,I'm NOT an Engineer(I wish I was!). I'm a frustrated pizza delivery driver with a 140 IQ, and an insatiable thirst for knowledge).


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

Another thing:If you're gonna get a front clip,and rear suspension,why start with a SE-R?Your gonna change everything that makes it an SE-R anyway.Sell it,and use the money to buy a nice rust free standard Sentra.With the extra money,you gain some more breathing room.I do think the $4000 budjet is do able-if you use all used parts and do all the work yourself(and with whatever friends you can con into helping you!)


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## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

i'm enrolled at school for automotive tech so i have everything i could ever need as far as tools go. not to mention, i have the teachers who have been doing this stuff for longer than i've been alive. i have seen some rear subframes and such for sale, used of course, on some various sites as well so that's not such a huge deal. but what i'm wondering is that if i buy an aftermarket suspension for my SE-R, will it still be able to bolt into the rear subframe of the GTi-R? and the same goes for the brakes?


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## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

ok, so i'm posting again becuz i need these couple questions answered
1- what's the best place to get the engine and tranny? i need someplace that includes the ecu and harness and everything for the engine swap.
2- is the GTiR engine a straight drop-in? i know some of you have done this, so maybe you can help me here. any tips would be great.
3- what's also the best place to get the rear subframe? 
4- will an aftermarket SE-R suspension and brake set-up fit onto the GTiR subframe assembly?

Sorry for my lack of knowledge compared to most of you, but i want to make sure i know everything i need to know before i tackle this project, which if everything goes right, should be within a couple months. thanks for all of your help.


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

93blackSER said:


> *i'm enrolled at school for automotive tech so i have everything i could ever need as far as tools go. not to mention, i have the teachers who have been doing this stuff for longer than i've been alive. i have seen some rear subframes and such for sale, used of course, on some various sites as well so that's not such a huge deal. but what i'm wondering is that if i buy an aftermarket suspension for my SE-R, will it still be able to bolt into the rear subframe of the GTi-R? and the same goes for the brakes? *


No,the two cars have entirely different rear suspensions. However,you could get the aftermarket parts that are available for the GTiR and bolt them to the subframe.I'm not sure about the brakes,but my suspicion is that the hubs are different-the SE-R's are not driven,and the GTiR's are.So,the hub centers may have different diameters,and if that's the case then the rotor"hats" will not properly center over the hubs-if they'll even fit at all! If I were Nissan,I would have used the S13(240sx) rear brakes and hubs on the Pulsar rather than having to engineer a complete system for a limited production (around 5,000 GTiR's were built)vehicle-so I suspect that they will interchange,but don't know for sure.So, I would wait off on purchasing any aftermarket suspension or brake components until you have your front clip and subframe to compare to your Sentra.You probably already know this,but I'll say it anyway.Your gonna need to either get a front mount intercooler for the GTiR engine or cut a hole in your hood and fabricate a large intercooler scoop for it(I was gonna make one that looks like a Boss 429 Mustang scoop-right size,and I think it would look cool-but that's just me!)


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## SlowestRice (Sep 14, 2002)

I am acctually gonna work on this also on my B14. I got the RNN14 sub frame and differental with drive shaft all lined up, just gotta get the money to purchase it. Its gonna be awhile, but I will get it done.


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

If anyone actually tries this,please send me some pics!I really want to know how it works out!One last thing you need to account for.The driveshaft MUST have a slip-joint in it somewhere or else the movement of the engine will destroy either the U joints,output shaft of the transfer case or pinion bearings in the rear differential case-if not the ring gear too! You will also need some sort of flexible joint in the exhaust for the same reason.Unlike a longitudinally mounted rear drive drivetrain which torques from driver's side to passenger's side when revved(and stressed),a transverse engine will go from front to back,and will bind up the exhaust and driveshaft when it does so!

Before you attempt this get a full working knowledge of the ATTESSA system in the GTiR.I have spent 30-40 hours so far researching this and printing out diagrams,basic specs and pictures of the undercarriage of the GTiR which I have assembled into a notebook.I suggest you do the same!

For the B14 guy,I have this:The basic dimensions of the B14 are larger than the RNN14. B14 wheelbase:99.8 in,trackwidth(F/R) 57.9/56.5.RNN14:wheelbase 95.7in,trackwidth(F/R)56.7/55.7. 
B14 specs from 98 200sx factory brocure,Pulsar specs from www.gti-r.com/official/gtirspec.htm
also try:HTTP://blinkin.phpwebhosting.com/~rboyz/info/basic.html


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## nastynissan (Jan 26, 2003)

Just an idea, but what about parts from a B-12 4wd wagon I seen a couple and was considering doing a swap in to my 89 sentra awhile back.. (Didnt happen) But it appeared that the sedan had most of the mounting points for the rearend in place already. It might be worth checking into....???


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## ThatSentraGuy83 (Apr 1, 2020)

coming here to close the book on this chapter. this is what it takes to AWD a sentra.


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