# Why has Nissan screwed with good engineering?



## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

OK,so I'm opening a Pandora's Box on this one,but I fail to see why Nissan is risking it's reputation for building very durable cars with some less than adequate engineering.The QR25DE is a poor excuse for an engine compared to the KA24 and SR20 engines that it repalces.There seem to be an inordinate number of warranty claims in vehicles produced with this engine.I read that these engines can't handle more than 300 hp with the stock bottom end.What's up with that?The KA and SR engines can handle far more power due to their closed deck blocks,forged cranks and rods and main cap girdles.I just don't understand why Nissan has abandoned these features and is risking the loss of it's repeat customers for a quick buck.Is it the French connection?The last auto company Renault was involved with went under(AMC)!Anyhoo,I just felt I needed to put this out there!


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Well,
Regarding the renault comment, its having the exact opposite effect. Nissan has never been better. Their finances and profits are turning around and they are actually producing a decent competietive product.
As for quality of engines I think its subjective. Longevity, emissions, rediuced service, and efficiency )plus cheap to build) are their priorities. HP is not. Once you have over 100HP at the wheels it doesn't matter, the car will move. 
Speed freaks don't get a cheap import car. They get an expensive import car or something with lots of displacement.

Seth

P.S. On a persinal note I will not buy any of the new nissan products. I feel that they have stylistic design problems (this is totally personal since lots more people than me like the new designs) and where they cut costs in interior materials is not up to spec. Sure it may be great for a new car, but is it better than the older model. i was in a new Murano and was definately NOT impressed. infinity is way better in design and materials. Mechanicals are the same with Nissan. So I would get an infinity as opposed to a nisan even though they are the same car.


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## SuperSentra4203 (Dec 17, 2002)

What's the difference between closed deck and open deck motors? Been wondering for some time. 
As for the QR motor, it may not rev too well, but it has one of the best heads on it than most motors out there. Sure it's not the strenght of the SR20, but it was easier and cheaper to build.
Hey Seth, I'm with ya, I really don't like the designs of the newer Nissans except the Infinity G35 Coupe(mmmm, droooolll. )


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## sentra94xe (May 6, 2002)

Sorry, had to address this.... not sure if it was just a slip up (by 2 ppl) or what. But it's not Infinity, it's Infiniti.

With regards to the thread, Renault has helped pull Nissan out of the debt gutter. W/o them Nissan would be nowhere near what it is today. And for the newest engineering feats, a lot of it now is about affordability on both ends. The QR motors work well, but as we have agreed may not be to the level of say the SR. What matters for Nissan is that their products sell, which they are. It could be worse...


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

A open deck engine allows more cylinder flex since it it not tied into the block at the top.This is why high hp honda engines need to be reinforced in this area or they can crack the cylinders.I for one,won't buy anything with the QR,and if they replace the KA in the trucks with it,I'll go look at a Toyota next time.I own Nissans because they can go 200-300k mi without major drivetrain problems,if this ceases to be the case why would I buy one? I know that renault has helped the bottom line,but it seems they're turning Nissan products into lower quality vehicles.I just have a deep personal hatred of renault for the demise of AMC!


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## sentra94xe (May 6, 2002)

himilefrontier said:


> *I know that renault has helped the bottom line,but it seems they're turning Nissan products into lower quality vehicles.I just have a deep personal hatred of renault for the demise of AMC! *


That's seems fair to say, given your tie with an AMC product. Renault may not have been the best choice for Nissan to choose, but it worked. Who knows how this partnership will work out in the future. At least we have the SR and KA motors to use.


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## SuperSentra4203 (Dec 17, 2002)

I actually see Nissan bringing back a version of the SR20 in the near future. That motor has been very popular for what, 15 years? The QR is a good motor, just not on the level of the SR20, nor will it ever be. I think Nissan says why waste money making a super strong stock motor anymore when most people either mod the motor sooner or later, or trade in the vehicle for a newer one. One think I haven't figured out is the demise of the RB26DETT. Now the Skyline will be powered by a VQ33DETT. I don't see whay they are switching to completely different motors instead of redesigning what they already have proven to be some of the best motors in the world. 
BTW, I realized I spelled Infiniti wrong, oh well, pronounced the same way


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Actually,
Most people don't mod. Thats the whole point. If they sell 30,000 cars with said engine, maybe 10,000 (and thats the population of a whole town) put something on it, like rims or a intake, maybe a new HU. Even less do lots of work, as in headers and exhaust and pulleys and other stuff that gives you little HP for lots of money. THe rest just want to put the key in it and it will go, and if it breaks the dealer will fix it under warranty. The proof is the lease vs. buy question. Many people lease. Can't put parts on a leased car unless you take them off every time you go to the dealer and when you give the car back.
Besides its the numbers that count not the heritage or power. Honda and Ford and Toyota sold about 1.5 million family sedans (thats accord, taurus, and camry alone nothing else). Nissan sells maybe a few hundred thousand sentras (which is I believe their biggest seller followed by the maxima, and then the altima, although all their money comes from the maxima which is just a big sentra for double the money, now they have fake SUV's to feed off of).
Ford sells 1,000,000 pickups a year, and so does chevy.
For the relatively small customer base that Nissan has, it has to keep the existing customers happy so they come back, and make something enticing for new people who don't want bland toyota and tinny honda. Unfortunately Nissan is becoming Pontiac. Big image. Fancy designs, power to those who believe in it, but still missing something.

Anyway, regarding the SR20, it was mentioned that it has been a popular engine for over 15 years. This is precisely the reason to move on. Get something completely (as opposed to partially) new. Engine technology does change and who wants to ride around in a 15 year old design even if it does still potentially (and not covered under any sort of warranty) produce more power?

Seth


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

Yeah,but if something works why mess with a good thing?Look at the original Small Block Chevy.It was in production from 1955 to I think 2000(last used in the Express vans).More than any other thing it was responsible for the popularity of Chevy with Hot Rodders,and developed a strong brand loyalty for Chevy.(available in displacements of:262.5,265,267,283, 302,305, 307, 327, 350 and 400 cu in).Now that Chevy has"moved on" it has lost it's identity and is relegated to producing rental cars. Nissan's identity has always been in the construction of very durable cars with a more sporting attitude than ,say ,Toyota. This has been there area of greatest success.The lineage goes back to the original roadster,510 and 240zx(all the influence of Yutaka Katayama-first president of US operations for Nissan).Sure they built cars for this market before then(310,410),but never with the success that these cars brought.Every time they lost their way and strayed from this way of thinking,sales have suffered.Going all the way back to the L16 nissan engines have always had forged cranks and High Nickel blocks for durability.The QR strays from this and the brand will suffer in the long run from it.


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## andre (Apr 30, 2002)

Very interesting thread....it seems like a whole bunch of negatives pop up when I start looking for a new sentra...or maybe I just want looking. Now I'm not sure if I should get a damn Nissan again based on all the negatives on the Altima and Sentra.


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

It's not all Nissan's we're talking about,just one particular engine series.The Altima SE uses the VQ35DE which is an excellent engine and has been in production for 9 years(in smaller displacements).I don't know anything about the 1.8 in the lower line Sentras(QA18DE?),but the older Sentras have always provided good cheap dependable transportation(with either SR20DE or GA16DE).I am just frustrated with all of the auto makers who seem to be sacrificing quality to save a few bucks per unit rather than do what is necessary to build brand loyalty. Unfortunately,Nissan has been taken over by a car company more known for it's bottom line than producing a good quality car. This is what Carlos Ghosn(new head of Nissan) is known for in the industry and the new Nissan's are starting to show it.


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## Rain-Xx (Jul 29, 2002)

himilefrontier said:


> *I am just frustrated with all of the auto makers who seem to be sacrificing quality to save a few bucks per unit rather than do what is necessary to build brand loyalty. Unfortunately,Nissan has been taken over by a car company more known for it's bottom line than producing a good quality car. This is what Carlos Ghosn(new head of Nissan) is known for in the industry and the new Nissan's are starting to show it. *


Unfortunately, that bottom line is what Nissan *has* to go for now. They lost too much money in the '90s to worry about building the best quality vehicles now. Ship a bunch of nice looking, good running cars to the public now, make a tonne of money, get out of debt, then manage all the warrently claims later. 5 or so years down the road, I think we'll be seeing some better quality come out of Nissan again.

I mean, Nissan did a complete 180. Tonnes of debt, poor sales to making money in the first year of the NRP (Nissan Revival Plan).. where do you think that money will come from? Ghosn slashed through a tonne of Japanese red tape and saved money in other ways, but some of that money came out of the vehilces. Like I said, once Nissan gets back on track, I think we'll see better quality again, once they can afford it.

BTW, for more information on the Revival of Nissan, check out "Turnaround: How Carlos Ghosn Rescued Nissan" by David Magee. It's a good book.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

Well they must be doing something right. The new Altima and 350Z have received rave reviews. Altima was the Motor Tend car of the year last year and the Z continues to get all types of good press, like the MotorWeek Drivers Choice award... and these are are only the first few cars of the revival...


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