# These are options...



## Zexel (May 15, 2002)

I decided to post here because there are obviously quite a few Audio enthustiasts here! Anyways, here's a few of my options for systems, I will probably ask for subs and amp(s) for x-mas and build boxes and install myself w/ friends. Anyways, here are some:

JBL GTi 10" - Single
JL Audio W3 10" - Pair
JL Audio W6 10" - Single
MTX Thunder 4000 (Old model) - Pair, maybe even 3 for the price
Diamond Audio CM3 10" - Pair

I can get a great deal on the Diamonds from a friend who's selling one of those to go to the M6 model. MTX's sound damn good for 10's w/ not so much power running through them. Heard a pair a GTi's from a friend before they got jacked. I can't even describe those! Never heard the W6's or W3's before. Also, I don't know yet but I'm thinking of running the Fosgate 250M series Amp because it's just plain and simple badass. Any other reccomendations that won't shoot me? I don't want to get WAAAY up there in price b/c I want a lot of this stuff for x-mas and have to tell my mom and all grandparents by end of the week. Thanks for any responses!


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## ImportCarTuner (Jun 9, 2002)

It's a toss up between the second and third choice... but for the record, I'd go with the second choice... JL Audio W3 10" - pair.


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## Joshb13sentra (May 13, 2002)

I used to have a pair of mtx thunder 4000's in a bandpass box in the trunk (it was a little unbearable to much bass for me). They sounded good though.


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## pkrSE-R (Jul 26, 2002)

i have a pair of JL 10" W3's in my car and they sound great. they are powered by a 600x3 hifonics zues amp. so i'd go with the W3s if i were you.


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## mirrortints (Aug 15, 2002)

JL, stick with those. It depends, do you want sound deafening bass? Sound quality bass? Which one? 

SQ- I'd go with some infinity perfects, or the jl's
SPL-I'd go with a digital design, Resonant engineering

Also, it depends on ur amp. That's the major factor, how many watts RMS??? From the 3 subs you chose, go with the W6, but I'm sure the W3 x 2 would be better, since it's 2 subs.


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## V i V i D 200sx (Sep 17, 2002)

so is there any answer in that last post? you like said you'd choose 5 out of a choice of 2. haha.... the MTX thunders sound good. i have a pair of 10" @ 200W each. i like 12"s better tho. deeper bass. (12"s for rap, and stuff w/ mad crazy bass; 10"s for rock, etc... stuff w/ real instruments)


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## Zexel (May 15, 2002)

Sorry for not posting! Anyways, I want both. I want good bass but I want it to be clean. My friends old GTi's were really crisp and clear and had unbelievable bass. I wouldn't mind getting 2 GTi's...but $$$!! The W6's are mighty badass. Although I'm considering some MTX's right now just because they're dirt cheap compared to the other ones, and I wouldn't mind getting a few. I would do a setup like Samo's truck, except both side and possibly even take out my spare and plexi-glass over another one in there. But anyways, to make this short...I would like clean crisp bass over sound deafening bass. But I want it to be heard!

Samo, if you read this, what are the size specs on your little box?


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## V i V i D 200sx (Sep 17, 2002)

i would go w/ 2 or 3 10"s i guess. if youre gonna build a custom box, stay within the recommended air space specs that'll come w/ the subs. go to www.crutchfield.com they have invaluable information on what the numbers mean and everything


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## mirrortints (Aug 15, 2002)

You want to shake the car? You need more than one sub, more subs=more air moving around=piss people off. I'd go with the 3 10's like vivid said. 

Vivid, I did mention a lot of subs, but if you can read correctly I listed which ones serve which purpose. Please, don't try to hate others cause of your A.D.D. 

BTW, search the web. You'll find some great deals on subs. I personally don't like MTX, cause I had a MTX8000 and an infinity perfect, MTX doesn't handle high power, sounds like shit in high power, and the clarity wasn't all that, just look at the specs for SENSITIVITY. I've found that you can look at that and it'll tell you a lot about a sub. The higher the number 90+ the better sound quality. The lower, like 88- the lower sound quality but better SPL, which sounds sort of like shit, but that's probably just me cause I like sound quality.

Check out infinity!


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## SentraStyleEMW (Aug 15, 2002)

mirrortints said:


> *You want to shake the car? You need more than one sub, more subs=more air moving around=piss people off. I'd go with the 3 10's like vivid said.
> 
> Vivid, I did mention a lot of subs, but if you can read correctly I listed which ones serve which purpose. Please, don't try to hate others cause of your A.D.D.
> 
> ...


Sensitivity has nothing to do with how good or how bad a sub sounds. The box (properly built) and the amp you use will determine that. Sensitivity is just a measure of how efficient a sub is. The higher the number...the less power it needs to perform well, and the lower the number...the more power it will need. It has nothing to do with sound quality.


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## mirrortints (Aug 15, 2002)

Okay, so is it a coincidence that the top sound quality subs have a high efficiency and the spl subs have a very low efficiency??? I guess that's a coincidence. I don't have anything to back me up, but there's gotta be a link between the two.


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## SentraStyleEMW (Aug 15, 2002)

mirrortints said:


> *Okay, so is it a coincidence that the top sound quality subs have a high efficiency and the spl subs have a very low efficiency??? I guess that's a coincidence. I don't have anything to back me up, but there's gotta be a link between the two. *


That is not always the case. Take the JL 12W7 for example. It was designed as a SQ sub and has a sensitivity rating of 86 dB. The sensitivity measurement is typically a direct reflection of the motor structure of the sub. The bigger the motor structure is, the more power it is going to require to move the speaker, so the lower the sensitivity.


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## mirrortints (Aug 15, 2002)

Aight, well I didn't know the W7's were 86 db's. You make a good point there. And, before I say that I was wrong......How much are the JBL GTi's? I had some old JBL 15's and they weren't very impressive. They never blew, but they weren't awesome.


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## SentraStyleEMW (Aug 15, 2002)

mirrortints said:


> *Aight, well I didn't know the W7's were 86 db's. You make a good point there. And, before I say that I was wrong......How much are the JBL GTi's? I had some old JBL 15's and they weren't very impressive. They never blew, but they weren't awesome. *


You are not completely wrong in your asssumptions, as quite a few subs w/ lower sensitivity ratings are designed for higher SPL numbers whereas many of the subs with higher sensitivity ratings are better suited for SQ applications. It isn't a standard that is set in stone though...as there are many subs that contradict that train of thought. I am not too familiar w/ the JBL line of subs so I cannot comment on their performance. But overall, the performance is directly related to the enclosure that it is in. The box can either make or brake a sub in terms of performance. I personally don't really care much for the sound of a 15" myself (I think a 12 would be as big as I would go)...but that is just my opinion...and everyone is entitled to their own.


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## Zexel (May 15, 2002)

So, anyone have suggestoins? I'm kind of feeling the W3's right now...2 of 'em.


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## cranium (Oct 8, 2002)

sensitivity also has alot to do with mass of the cone in conjuction with motor strength. you will find that excurtion also has alot to do with SPL. IMO stick with JL i has a set of 10"w3's in a box that i designed on the computer with a program and built in my woodshop and let me say it was loud as hell on only 90 watts per speakerr (120 db's). the box with ANY speaker is the key to its performace. make a box around the speaker and your golden.


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## mirrortints (Aug 15, 2002)

I'd have to agree with them, the box makes a big diff. If you are feelin the W3's get them. As long as you don't try to still think about diamond and mtx subs at the same time you think about jl subs, you are okay. Totally different class! JL subs are on a totally diff level.


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## Zexel (May 15, 2002)

Oh man I know they're like 20 times better than MTX probably. But Diamond is one kickass company too. But anyways, the only reason I'm NOT considering them is the $$$. But I talked to my grandma and she said she'll just give me some money to get some speakers. So I'll probably end up getting the W3's!! What, like 180-200 a pop? Yeah, won't be that bad.


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## OldOneEye (Oct 22, 2002)

Not how it works. Typically you need to make the cone and all the soft parts heavy duty to take lots of watts for SPL (like the surround, spiders, etc.). This makes it heavier, making a stronger magnet necessary.

Think of a Protege MP3 against a Corvette. The Mazda has much smaller rims, yet it manages to get some impressive cornering numbers. The corvette has much wider rubber, but its also heavier as well. When you add more power, you need big brakes, and a heavy structure to support it. Same with woofers.

By the same token, a 43 pound magnet on a speaker that handles 100 watts is possible, but makes no sense. Its overkill and would make the speaker price prohibitive.

Juan




SentraStyleEMW said:


> *That is not always the case. Take the JL 12W7 for example. It was designed as a SQ sub and has a sensitivity rating of 86 dB. The sensitivity measurement is typically a direct reflection of the motor structure of the sub. The bigger the motor structure is, the more power it is going to require to move the speaker, so the lower the sensitivity. *


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## SentraStyleEMW (Aug 15, 2002)

OldOneEye said:


> *Not how it works. Typically you need to make the cone and all the soft parts heavy duty to take lots of watts for SPL (like the surround, spiders, etc.). This makes it heavier, making a stronger magnet necessary.
> 
> Think of a Protege MP3 against a Corvette. The Mazda has much smaller rims, yet it manages to get some impressive cornering numbers. The corvette has much wider rubber, but its also heavier as well. When you add more power, you need big brakes, and a heavy structure to support it. Same with woofers.
> 
> ...


That is just what I said...the bigger the motor structure, the more power it requires to make it perform well. Typically this equates to higher SPL numbers but is not always the case. I was just pointing out the JL W7 series sub as an example. It has a huge magnet, large motor structure, and requires lots of power...but it was designed as a SQ sub.

Stronger, more rigid cone materials, larger magnets not only allow for higher SPL...but also provide better overall control of a driver for SQ if designed properly.


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## Zexel (May 15, 2002)

Went up to the most popular local audio place today and had them print me out a quote. Here's most of the prices and if it has a /, after the / is the price I found on the net and will buy from them.

10" W3D4 (x2) - $380/$330 (possibly cheaper if I kept looking.)

Rock. Fosgate BD500 mono amp - $450/$240!!!

4 Gauge wire kit + any extensions depending on length - $80 (good or bad?)

Ported 10"(x2) box (Custom built) - $200...could probably go cheaper but definately want a badass box.

Amp Rack + Trim Panels - $75 (Custom obviously)

Amp Install + Wiring - $40

Total...985!

Not cheap, but I'm sure I could find a lot of that stuff online for cheap. Anyone reccomend any places online to search?


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## SentraStyleEMW (Aug 15, 2002)

Zexel said:


> *Went up to the most popular local audio place today and had them print me out a quote. Here's most of the prices and if it has a /, after the / is the price I found on the net and will buy from them.
> 
> 10" W3D4 (x2) - $380/$330 (possibly cheaper if I kept looking.)
> 
> ...


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## Zexel (May 15, 2002)

SentraStyle - Thanks for the help and suggestions. As far as the subs go, didn't exacty think of that...the warranty. I may just give up another $40 if I can. But I also think this place matches prices, so if they do I'm sure they'll hold the warranty for it...I'll see. And for the amp, I think I'll take a chance if they won't hold a warranty and match the price and save over $200!! I still can't believe I found it for $200 cheaper. I'll look on eBay for the wire kit. And yes, the ported box will leave me practically no trunk space, but I NEVER use it anyways. Literally, never. He said it will surely be damn loud too. So I'm going to see how much a sealed box is. I'm sure it will make a big difference in the type of box, but what would you do??


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## OldOneEye (Oct 22, 2002)

I think you are missing the point. A heavy cone needs a strong magnet to move it and a big amp. By itself, a big magnet doesn't need a big amp. I have seen light cones with bigger magnets which are pretty efficient.

It's kind of like seeing big brakes on a car, and then drawing the conclusion that its fast since most cars with big brakes have big HP numbers, and most cars with big HP numbers are fast. 

Juan




SentraStyleEMW said:


> *That is just what I said...the bigger the motor structure, the more power it requires to make it perform well. Typically this equates to higher SPL numbers but is not always the case. I was just pointing out the JL W7 series sub as an example. It has a huge magnet, large motor structure, and requires lots of power...but it was designed as a SQ sub.
> 
> Stronger, more rigid cone materials, larger magnets not only allow for higher SPL...but also provide better overall control of a driver for SQ if designed properly. *


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## V i V i D 200sx (Sep 17, 2002)

what do you guys think about hte solobarics?


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## SentraStyleEMW (Aug 15, 2002)

V i V i D 200sx said:


> *what do you guys think about hte solobarics? *


I like them...a little pricey...and a little power hungry...but I like them


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