# Humming noise at speed (Not bearings apparently)



## rohaan (Jan 19, 2018)

Hey X-Trail people, I've stumbled into a little problem on my 05 X-Trail... Maybe you can help?

Started out on a pretty big drive the other week. Was going to be about 1000km. Anyway, got an hour in and noticed that there was a humming/whirring noise that you didn't really notice until about 100km/h, when it became quite loud (almost sounded like when you have something strapped to the roof and a strap is flapping in the wind). Pushed further to 120 and it kind of seemed less loud, I think just because it became higher pitched. I tried taking the engine out of gear to test for engine mounts, and the sound was exactly the same. So I assumed it must be a wheel bearing. That's the only thing that remains spinning when the engine is in neutral and you're rolling at 100km/h, right?

So I stopped at a garage and jacked up the front wheels (where it sounded like it was coming from) and road the right wheel felt pretty stiff to spin. Also found that one back tire was only running at 25 PSI when the others were at around 34. So I inflated that to match the others. Sound still remained so I turned back and drove home.

Took the car to the mechanic and he confirmed he thought it was a wheel bearing. So replaced the front right wheel bearing and hub, which seems to have fixed the sound a little, but there's still something not quite right. The mechanic said it was hard to tell if it was fixed above the tire noise, and to be fair it does sound a little like tire noise, but tires were nothing like as loud as this before. 

So I'm wondering what else it could be? Could it be another bearing? Could the underinflated tire have damaged the differential? Has anybody experienced something like this before and got any advice???

Thanks in advance!


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

The right front tire may have developed a cupping wear pattern from a problem with the front drive system. A cupping wear pattern can produce the type of noise you're encountering. Switch the RIGHT front tire with the rear LEFT tire and see if the noise follows the tire.


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## rohaan (Jan 19, 2018)

Interesting. I'll definitely give that a try, thanks! Or maybe just switch onto my winter tires altogether and see if that fixes it....


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## rohaan (Jan 19, 2018)

So, sad times. I switched to my winter tires, but still get the noise around 90 km/h and up. So I guess it wasn't cupping wear, which is cool as it means I don't have to replace struts etc. however, doesn't get me any closer to the cause of the issue :-/ Anyone got any other ideas I could try?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Are both rear bearings good? I have found that it is hard to pinpoint the sound they make when driving the car.


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## bldrnnr11 (Jul 18, 2020)

rohaan said:


> So, sad times. I switched to my winter tires, but still get the noise around 90 km/h and up. So I guess it wasn't cupping wear, which is cool as it means I don't have to replace struts etc. however, doesn't get me any closer to the cause of the issue :-/ Anyone got any other ideas I could try?


I have a similar issue with my X-trail recently. It is a 2006 Canada model.
I noticed I was getting louder than normal noise when driving above 65km/hr.
Took it to the mechanic and told him that I think it is a wheel bearing. He took it for a test drive and did some other checks and told me that it isn't a bearing and that it is just road noise. Hard to believe because the road noise is distinct in sound this sounds like a jet engine humming while at a constant speed. It gets louder (higher frequency) when driven faster.

Anyone have any ideas further about this issue?

This noise only started to occur just recently as well which is why I know for fact it is not road noise and is something more mechanical.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

rohaan said:


> So, sad times. I switched to my winter tires, but still get the noise around 90 km/h and up. So I guess it wasn't cupping wear, which is cool as it means I don't have to replace struts etc. however, doesn't get me any closer to the cause of the issue :-/ Anyone got any other ideas I could try?


QUAD is right when he says: "Are both rear bearings good? I have found that it is hard to pinpoint the sound they make when driving the car."
Since you had the right front wheel bearing replaced, you might as well have the front left wheel bearing replaced. This way you'll at least eliminate the wheel bearings as the source of the noise. The only things left is a worn CV joint or a problem in the transfer case.

Worn CV joints generally make noise at much slower speeds and especially when making turns.

Transfer case whining noise generally occurs if the case is very low on oil or if the ring/pinion teeth surfaces are heavily worn or damaged. Check the oil level.


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## wongweili (Aug 12, 2020)

Hi there, i am facing the same issue. Checked on all wheel bearings and tires, still not able to solve the problem. Anyone able to help me on this issue?


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Read my above post for some suggestions.


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## wongweili (Aug 12, 2020)

rogoman said:


> Read my above post for some suggestions.


Thanks for your suggestions. I had done all checking on wheels bearings, CV joints, and transfer case checked. All in good condition, but yet the noise still occur.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

There's a good chance that the noise is in the transfer case which consists of a differential containing a ring and pinion set of gears. This condition is typically always diagnosed as a *bad ring and Pinion gear*. A “howl or whine” is usually caused by worn ring and pinion gears or improper gear set up. “Rumbling or whirring” at speeds over 20 mph can be caused by worn carrier bearings.


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## wongweili (Aug 12, 2020)

Thanks for reply. Will get to check on that.


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## Mike Hunter (Dec 10, 2020)

bldrnnr11 said:


> I have a similar issue with my X-trail recently. It is a 2006 Canada model.
> I noticed I was getting louder than normal noise when driving above 65km/hr.
> Took it to the mechanic and told him that I think it is a wheel bearing. He took it for a test drive and did some other checks and told me that it isn't a bearing and that it is just road noise. Hard to believe because the road noise is distinct in sound this sounds like a jet engine humming while at a constant speed. It gets louder (higher frequency) when driven faster.
> 
> ...


I have incounted the same issue on my 2016 Nissan Rogue, switched to my summer tires , no noise, switched back to my winter tiger paw winter tires , noise seems to be back, mostly seems right rear area, I just think the tires are making the wheel bearing sounding noise..

Mike


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## Neverhood (Aug 3, 2021)

hello, I have Xtrail (2006 2.2 dci) today I started to hear a strange low humming sound while driving…. very subtle but I can hear it best when I press the clutch and when the car is coasting from 100km/h and slowly decreasing speed…. does that mean it can’t be transmission?


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

Neverhood said:


> does that mean it can’t be transmission?


It means it can't be the input (engine) side of the trans. In gear with the clutch pulled, the wheels are still causing the output shaft and jackshaft to spin. You can eliminate the jackshaft by popping it out of gear while coasting. If it still makes the noise out of gear, then the source is someplace between the tranny output shaft and the tires.


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## Mark_78 (Sep 28, 2021)

Hi, 

I have the same issue whit my X-Trail 2005 at 90km/hr it's starting to make noise I went to the garage and the Mechanic took the car for a drive and when he came back he told me it was the driving shaft of the rear that is getting jam and rusty and that I can just remove it and have a front wheel drive and no more 4wd. any one know if this is possible ? 

thanks


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## DFSpencer (Oct 21, 2019)

Mark_78 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have the same issue whit my X-Trail 2005 at 90km/hr it's starting to make noise I went to the garage and the Mechanic took the car for a drive and when he came back he told me it was the driving shaft of the rear that is getting jam and rusty and that I can just remove it and have a front wheel drive and no more 4wd. any one know if this is possible ?
> 
> thanks


The T30 (AWD/4WD) has a fairly unusual right drive shaft, so the right CV joints are on a fairly short drive shaft but the right side also has a stub axle and that is what the right CV joint/axle unit bolts to. This stub axle is actually supported, when it leaves the housing, by a bracket bolted in 3 places to the engine. The bracket has internally something equivalent to a steady bearing (AKA drive shaft support bearing), so the equivalent of what the rear drive shaft has. So that is a possibility when you get strange bad bearing like noises that are not wheel bearings or worn CV joints. I had mine off and although it would seem you should be able to replace that bearing I could not figure out exactly how that stub axle assembly was put together at the factory.
The T30 (AWD/4WD) has a live rear drive shaft, so it is always running because the engagement of the rear wheels is made by an electric clutch in the rear final drive (as Nissan calls it) and not in the transfer case. If the steady bearing in the rear drive shaft is bad that could indeed cause noise similar to wheel bearings; it of course can be replaced. As far as the "rear getting jam and rusty" I don't know exactly what that means. There are universal joints in the rear drive shaft and they do wear out (and can be replaced), and then there is the rear final drive and that of course has bearings internally as well. A lot of proper diagnosis for these types of problems demand that the quality of the noise be described as accurately as possible as well as the conditions and speed of the vehicle. I really have no idea whether you can simply remove the rear drive shaft at the transfer case in the front and the rear final drive at the back and have the vehicle driveable, it is quite possible. In fact if you really wanted to diagnose your problem you could disconnect the rear drive shaft at the transfer case, secure it properly there and test drive the car with the AWD/4WD control in 2WD (only). If the rear final drive is the problem you could probably take it off and replace bad bearings. The rear final drive on the T30 AWD/4WD versions was apparently identical for all engines and all markets so you do have options in finding a used unit.


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## DFSpencer (Oct 21, 2019)

DFSpencer said:


> The T30 (AWD/4WD) has a fairly unusual right drive shaft, so the right CV joints are on a fairly short drive shaft but the right side also has a stub axle and that is what the right CV joint/axle unit bolts to. This stub axle is actually supported, when it leaves the housing, by a bracket bolted in 3 places to the engine. The bracket has internally something equivalent to a steady bearing (AKA drive shaft support bearing), so the equivalent of what the rear drive shaft has. So that is a possibility when you get strange bad bearing like noises that are not wheel bearings or worn CV joints. I had mine off and although it would seem you should be able to replace that bearing I could not figure out exactly how that stub axle assembly was put together at the factory.
> The T30 (AWD/4WD) has a live rear drive shaft, so it is always running because the engagement of the rear wheels is made by an electric clutch in the rear final drive (as Nissan calls it) and not in the transfer case. If the steady bearing in the rear drive shaft is bad that could indeed cause noise similar to wheel bearings; it of course can be replaced. As far as the "rear getting jam and rusty" I don't know exactly what that means. There are universal joints in the rear drive shaft and they do wear out (and can be replaced), and then there is the rear final drive and that of course has bearings internally as well. A lot of proper diagnosis for these types of problems demand that the quality of the noise be described as accurately as possible as well as the conditions and speed of the vehicle. I really have no idea whether you can simply remove the rear drive shaft at the transfer case in the front and the rear final drive at the back and have the vehicle driveable, it is quite possible. In fact if you really wanted to diagnose your problem you could disconnect the rear drive shaft at the transfer case, secure it properly there and test drive the car with the AWD/4WD control in 2WD (only). If the rear final drive is the problem you could probably take it off and replace bad bearings. The rear final drive on the T30 AWD/4WD versions was apparently identical for all engines and all markets so you do have options in finding a used unit.


I just checked the service manual for the T30 XTrail and Nissan considers that what they call the "center bearing" in the rear propeller shaft is not serviceable and if it gets noisy Nissan insists you must replace the entire propeller shaft. Isn't that special.


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## DFSpencer (Oct 21, 2019)

DFSpencer said:


> The T30 (AWD/4WD) has a fairly unusual right drive shaft, so the right CV joints are on a fairly short drive shaft but the right side also has a stub axle and that is what the right CV joint/axle unit bolts to. This stub axle is actually supported, when it leaves the housing, by a bracket bolted in 3 places to the engine. The bracket has internally something equivalent to a steady bearing (AKA drive shaft support bearing), so the equivalent of what the rear drive shaft has. So that is a possibility when you get strange bad bearing like noises that are not wheel bearings or worn CV joints. I had mine off and although it would seem you should be able to replace that bearing I could not figure out exactly how that stub axle assembly was put together at the factory.
> The T30 (AWD/4WD) has a live rear drive shaft, so it is always running because the engagement of the rear wheels is made by an electric clutch in the rear final drive (as Nissan calls it) and not in the transfer case. If the steady bearing in the rear drive shaft is bad that could indeed cause noise similar to wheel bearings; it of course can be replaced. As far as the "rear getting jam and rusty" I don't know exactly what that means. There are universal joints in the rear drive shaft and they do wear out (and can be replaced), and then there is the rear final drive and that of course has bearings internally as well. A lot of proper diagnosis for these types of problems demand that the quality of the noise be described as accurately as possible as well as the conditions and speed of the vehicle. I really have no idea whether you can simply remove the rear drive shaft at the transfer case in the front and the rear final drive at the back and have the vehicle driveable, it is quite possible. In fact if you really wanted to diagnose your problem you could disconnect the rear drive shaft at the transfer case, secure it properly there and test drive the car with the AWD/4WD control in 2WD (only). If the rear final drive is the problem you could probably take it off and replace bad bearings. The rear final drive on the T30 AWD/4WD versions was apparently identical for all engines and all markets so you do have options in finding a used unit.


I now have important new insight into the rear final drive ("differential") in AWD/4WD T30 XTrails because I have just removed the rear subframe (Nissan calls it the "rear suspension member") because it has corrosion severe enough that it failed our provincial inspection. The rear final drive is entirely supported by the rear subframe and so it must be disconnected from the subframe and lowered down enough to permit the subframe to be dropped down enough to be removed. What I discovered while doing this rather unpleasant work is that the default state of the rear final drive (so with the ignition and obviously engine off) is engaged, not disengaged as I have assumed. The rear final drive state is performed by what Nissan calls an 'electronically controlled coupling' and so when the car is actually started in 2wd the coupling disengages the rear axles. However, while disconnecting the rear final drive from the propeller shaft, so removing the four nuts, then the bolts, I wanted to rotate the propeller shaft to better access each nut. The front wheels were on the ground and I turned the ignition to the point where I could shift the transmission into neutral but that didn't allow me to rotate the propeller shaft until I raised one of the front wheels with a small floor jack until the tire just lifted off the driveway. Then I could rotate the propeller shaft either by turning the front wheel and in fact at the propeller shaft itself. Then it finally dawned on me that in 2wd the propeller shaft cannot simply rotate down freely to the rear final drive because otherwise the front wheels wouldn't be driven. The T30 Xtrail service manual, as far as I can determine, does not actually explain exactly how the electronically controlled coupling in the rear final drive works. It clearly will lock the rear axles in when in 4wd, and at times when in AWD but it must actually lock the propeller shaft when in 2wd. So that means you cannot simply remove the propeller shaft at the front and make the vehicle permanently 2wd and it means you cannot diagnose possible center bearing problems by disconnecting the propeller shaft at the rear final drive input as I suggested as a possibility in my note.


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## VStar650CL (Nov 12, 2020)

This site has a ton of excellent info about how various Nissan AWD's work, including the Exxies:









Nissan all wheel drive explained


{IMAGE}




www.awdwiki.com





The reason you couldn't turn the shaft without lifting a front wheel is that the front end of the driveshaft is geared directly to the transmission output shaft. The _back end_ of the shaft is where the coupler disconnects it from the rear diff. Unlike the transfer case in a RWD-based model, the FWD intermediate box never disengages and the driveshaft always spins with it. Thus, your driveshaft spins anytime the vehicle moves, regardless of whether you're in 2WD or AWD. That also means the driveshaft will be locked anytime both front wheels are down, because only lifting a front wheel will allow counterspin in the front diff and permit it to rotate. Putting the vehicle in neutral will only disconnect your transmission input shaft from the engine, it won't affect the output shaft in any way. Only the wheels can do that, so one of them must be lifted.

The upshot is, your presumption about 2WD is incorrect. Removing the driveshaft _will_ turn the vehicle into a normal, transverse FWD.


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## DFSpencer (Oct 21, 2019)

DFSpencer said:


> I now have important new insight into the rear final drive ("differential") in AWD/4WD T30 XTrails because I have just removed the rear subframe (Nissan calls it the "rear suspension member") because it has corrosion severe enough that it failed our provincial inspection. The rear final drive is entirely supported by the rear subframe and so it must be disconnected from the subframe and lowered down enough to permit the subframe to be dropped down enough to be removed. What I discovered while doing this rather unpleasant work is that the default state of the rear final drive (so with the ignition and obviously engine off) is engaged, not disengaged as I have assumed. The rear final drive state is performed by what Nissan calls an 'electronically controlled coupling' and so when the car is actually started in 2wd the coupling disengages the rear axles. However, while disconnecting the rear final drive from the propeller shaft, so removing the four nuts, then the bolts, I wanted to rotate the propeller shaft to better access each nut. The front wheels were on the ground and I turned the ignition to the point where I could shift the transmission into neutral but that didn't allow me to rotate the propeller shaft until I raised one of the front wheels with a small floor jack until the tire just lifted off the driveway. Then I could rotate the propeller shaft either by turning the front wheel and in fact at the propeller shaft itself. Then it finally dawned on me that in 2wd the propeller shaft cannot simply rotate down freely to the rear final drive because otherwise the front wheels wouldn't be driven. The T30 Xtrail service manual, as far as I can determine, does not actually explain exactly how the electronically controlled coupling in the rear final drive works. It clearly will lock the rear axles in when in 4wd, and at times when in AWD but it must actually lock the propeller shaft when in 2wd. So that means you cannot simply remove the propeller shaft at the front and make the vehicle permanently 2wd and it means you cannot diagnose possible center bearing problems by disconnecting the propeller shaft at the rear final drive input as I suggested as a possibility in my note.


I was incorrect if I suggested that the default state of the rear final drive/electronic controlled coupling is locked. My coupling was/is seized. It wasn't until I spotted an older post that I finally pieced some info together that others might find useful because it isn't an easy problem to be aware of nor diagnose. My "project" vehicle has rarely been driven any distance because it has needed so much work to pass provincial inspection. I had hoped that the replacement of the rear suspension member ("subframe") would be the end but now I'm deciding how to solve the seized coupling. I did decide to try to disassemble it. I had nothing to lose, and began by cutting the welding tacks on the output side of the housing. But from my experience and from what I can glean from the only schematic I have ever seen of the part (in service manuals), it seems clear that a seized electronically controlled coupling simply cannot be taken apart. I had the vehicle on the highway briefly to take it to a glass place to get the windshield replaced (the classic crack that starts in the lower corner, left in my case, goes up at about 45 degrees and over about halfway across; this is caused by a small spot of rust that expands and stresses the windshield in the lower corner). On the highway if I went up to about 105 km/hr the front end started to severely shake, like a badly out of balance tire or an out-of-round tire or rim. The old post from here from a while ago described a similar problem. The poster tried a number of things to figure out the problem and repair it but eventually gave up and sold the vehicle. Now with the rear end locked in 4WD you shouldn't go faster than about 30 km/hr (ca. 19 mi/hr) and if you do the ECM will normally override the control and force the electronically controlled coupling into 'AUTO', so AWD, mode. I don't know exactly what is happening but if you have a seized coupling and get up over 100 km/hr apparently you get that extreme shaking; it's safe to assume that isn't good for one or more parts of the drivetrain. Another point that I guess somewhat surprised me is that the rear final drive in AWD/4WD T30s was used in other Nissans, including the T31s, but also in the Rogues up to about 2013 (which were the same platform as T31s internationally anyway) and the J10 Qashqai (originally the Dualis) of the same general era. What I am not sure about is if the other rear ends are actually the same as the T30 XTrail because the Rogues with that part have a 5.173 final ratio (the used ones on ebay claim that at least) and I don't think that is what the XTrail uses. I have not been able to find out what the spec for the T30 is and I have looked through service manuals, users manual and the Internet and the best I can find is on the detailed sticker on the door jam which lists the axle as an FT40, whatever that means.


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## DFSpencer (Oct 21, 2019)

DFSpencer said:


> I was incorrect if I suggested that the default state of the rear final drive/electronic controlled coupling is locked. My coupling was/is seized. It wasn't until I spotted an older post that I finally pieced some info together that others might find useful because it isn't an easy problem to be aware of nor diagnose. My "project" vehicle has rarely been driven any distance because it has needed so much work to pass provincial inspection. I had hoped that the replacement of the rear suspension member ("subframe") would be the end but now I'm deciding how to solve the seized coupling. I did decide to try to disassemble it. I had nothing to lose, and began by cutting the welding tacks on the output side of the housing. But from my experience and from what I can glean from the only schematic I have ever seen of the part (in service manuals), it seems clear that a seized electronically controlled coupling simply cannot be taken apart. I had the vehicle on the highway briefly to take it to a glass place to get the windshield replaced (the classic crack that starts in the lower corner, left in my case, goes up at about 45 degrees and over about halfway across; this is caused by a small spot of rust that expands and stresses the windshield in the lower corner). On the highway if I went up to about 105 km/hr the front end started to severely shake, like a badly out of balance tire or an out-of-round tire or rim. The old post from here from a while ago described a similar problem. The poster tried a number of things to figure out the problem and repair it but eventually gave up and sold the vehicle. Now with the rear end locked in 4WD you shouldn't go faster than about 30 km/hr (ca. 19 mi/hr) and if you do the ECM will normally override the control and force the electronically controlled coupling into 'AUTO', so AWD, mode. I don't know exactly what is happening but if you have a seized coupling and get up over 100 km/hr apparently you get that extreme shaking; it's safe to assume that isn't good for one or more parts of the drivetrain. Another point that I guess somewhat surprised me is that the rear final drive in AWD/4WD T30s was used in other Nissans, including the T31s, but also in the Rogues up to about 2013 (which were the same platform as T31s internationally anyway) and the J10 Qashqai (originally the Dualis) of the same general era. What I am not sure about is if the other rear ends are actually the same as the T30 XTrail because the Rogues with that part have a 5.173 final ratio (the used ones on ebay claim that at least) and I don't think that is what the XTrail uses. I have not been able to find out what the spec for the T30 is and I have looked through service manuals, users manual and the Internet and the best I can find is on the detailed sticker on the door jam which lists the axle as an FT40, whatever that means.


An additional followup because I have in fact found critical specs for the RFD in Nissan service manuals. The rear final drive unit for the T30, the T31, the Rogue up to 2013 and the Qashqai is Nissan's model R145 and they are all the same. The gear ratio is 2.466. So any XTrail T30 owner who has either a bad electric controlled coupling or maybe a really messed up differential does have several options for a replacement.


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## RobertKoen (10 mo ago)

I have a 2011 maxima and have read all the comments here but my issue sounds like wind noise from the front. At first I thought it could be the bottom splash shield and the wind catching it as I accelerated. I found two push pins worn and replaced but noise still happens. The faster I go, the louder it gets.


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## RobertKoen (10 mo ago)

RobertKoen said:


> I have a 2011 maxima and have read all the comments here but my issue sounds like wind noise from the front. At first I thought it could be the bottom splash shield and the wind catching it as I accelerated. I found two push pins worn and replaced but noise still happens. The faster I go, the louder it gets.
> Any and all advice welcome.


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## DFSpencer (Oct 21, 2019)

RobertKoen said:


> I have a 2011 maxima and have read all the comments here but my issue sounds like wind noise from the front. At first I thought it could be the bottom splash shield and the wind catching it as I accelerated. I found two push pins worn and replaced but noise still happens. The faster I go, the louder it gets.


So if you are parked and increase the engine speed you don't hear that noise? That is an important piece of information because if you only hear the noise with the vehicle moving you can obviously rule out things like an alternator bearing or some other problem specifically with the engine. I assume what you hear is not especially high pitched (wind noise isn't).


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## RobertKoen (10 mo ago)

DFSpencer said:


> So if you are parked and increase the engine speed you don't hear that noise? That is an important piece of information because if you only hear the noise with the vehicle moving you can obviously rule out things like an alternator bearing or some other problem specifically with the engine. I assume what you hear is not especially high pitched (wind noise isn't).


No noise when parked and revenge the engine. Thought I would try that too because it almost sounds like the fan blades but not loose.


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## DFSpencer (Oct 21, 2019)

RobertKoen said:


> No noise when parked and revenge the engine. Thought I would try that too because it almost sounds like the fan blades but not loose.


I'll just assume you have gone through the standard diagnostic ritual of paying attention to the noise when you turn left, or right, or when you brake hard. I believe your vehicle has some form of glass in the roof (but I think not a conventional sun/moon roof) and I'll assume you have considered an air leak there, although you do note the sound seems to be coming from the lower front of the car. The one component that your car has that I am not at all familiar with is the CVT, depending on a person's experience with it either a blessing or a curse. Have you tried putting the shifter in manual mode and driven the vehicle while putting the transmission through the "gears" manually (it has a paddle shifter apparently)? It seems possible to me that your problem could be a bad bearing in the transmission or transaxle and that would probably produce a fairly low frequency noise/roar, which I believe is the type of sound you're hearing.


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## RobertKoen (10 mo ago)

Yes I did the turning braking checks and listened to all the windows while having someone else drive. I hope it is nothing to do with the transmission. All functions of the car seem great and all fluids are topped. Just this noise is very frustrating


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