# Low Octain faster burn = Heat?



## sentravis (Jul 7, 2002)

hey im still searching on this as well.. BUT.. if low octain gas burns faster.. does this mean that my heater will work out faster .. i figure it would make the engine hotter faster.. therefor making the radiator hotter faster.. (or i could just redline in the morning and kill the engine LOL)i need to know because i live in Ohio .. and winter is comming real soon.. and i use 94 octain.. thinking of goin 89 in the winter.. any suggestions other than smart ass ones.. lol.. Travis


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## dschrier (May 6, 2002)

Well while the lower octane will create more heat, this is why preignition occurs and damages your engine because the fuel ignites before it is supposed to and causes knock and pinging. Don't go any lower than 87 octane.


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## WhiteFox (Sep 4, 2002)

The radiator will only get as warm as the coolant that the thermostat will let past. Anyways..
I wouldn't imagine there would be any noticable difference in the amount of time it takes to warm up. On a different note, wouldn't you think that since it burns faster that the combustion would be over with faster, giving less time for the heat to transfer?
Got them gears in the ol' bucket grinding yet?

I wouldn't think too much on this. Just let your car warm up for a few minutes and let the octane levels be.


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## sentravis (Jul 7, 2002)

hmm.. yeah.. i guess so.. Travis


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

may i ask why you are running 94 octane, what is your timing set at/ what are your mods, none of this will help your car heating up faster, the only thing you could do is get a lower temp range thermostat, but its not worth it to me, just let the car idle, but open it up once in a while because 94 octane+lots of idleing- carbon buildup in the intake and tb. you may need to clean your tb after the winter if you let it idle a ton.


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## sentravis (Jul 7, 2002)

hold on.. you guys are miss understanding me.. im not using 94 octain to get the car warmer in the cold.. 

first of all.. i run 94 octain to perform better.. i dont have my timming advanced.. but 94 octain with my free flow muffler and CAI means i get a better feelin car.. i can feel the difference on the express way.. getting on ramps and shit ya know.. 

second.. i didnt know thats why im getting carbon build up in my intake.. hmm... weird.. yeah i have noticed carbon build up.. expescially in my TB.. but also before it.. almost black lol.. wow.. 

third.. well.. i know i could idle the car for a while.. but what you people dont understand is that i dont like goin out into the cold.. turning the car on.. comming backinside.. wait 5-10 minutes for the car to warm up idling, because thats how long it takes anycar to warm up.. i might as well get a remote starter.. i just wanted to know if using the lower octain i was getting a faster burn.. that the car would warm up faster.. but i guess that question has been answered. NO.. plus. i heard from my friend at work here.. that actually the 94 is gonna go quicker because of the octain level cleaning out the injectors.. so better fuel flow.. using piss fuel (no offense) you guys use gets particles stuck inside the injectors.. and i forgot about that.. but regardless thanks guys... Travis


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## Exalta (Jan 21, 2003)

Ever since I started using 95-97 Octane gasoline all the time for my ride, i never had any problems with the engine and it felt more responsive.


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## fastpakr (Sep 18, 2002)

Low octane fuel has nothing to do with getting deposits in the injectors or combustion chambers. High octane fuel is less likely to generate a complete burn unless the pressure in the cylinder pressure is high (either high compression or forced air). Only run the level of octane required to eliminate pinging - anything higher is just a waste of money (there is NO extra energy in higher octane fuel) and asking for increased carbon buildup in the combustion chamber.


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

^correct-you guys are wrong no matter what you feel while driving your car, you will get the most power out of the lowest octane gas thats possible to run without detonation/pinging. you are just wasting your money on 94 octane with stock timing and your are just asking to have extra carbon buildup. different contaminants in the fuel may cause injector failure, but that isn't going to be because of the octane you use, the brand of gas and the additives that they use are what cause that. these are the facts....its up to you whether or not you keep wasting your money on good gas when you don't need it.


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## Exalta (Jan 21, 2003)

Well, it's okay. The timing on my dear departed Sentra was waaaay advanced.Thanks to the tech tips on NissanPerformanceMag. That's why i run high octane.


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## B11sleeper (Oct 15, 2003)

Ditto... I advanced my timing to the point where i got pinging when i was off the gas, higher octane fixed that.

if you want the car to heat up quicker because you store it somewhere really cold, why not get a block teater and a timer?


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

dschrier said:


> *Well while the lower octane will create more heat, this is why preignition occurs and damages your engine because the fuel ignites before it is supposed to and causes knock and pinging. Don't go any lower than 87 octan. *


How does lower octane rated gas produce more heat?


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

it won't i don't think, its combustion either way, detonation occurs easier with a lower octane, thats what octane is, resistance to detonation, meaning it would combust or detonate at a lower temperature than a high octane would.


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## BobBitchin (Dec 20, 2002)

Just move someplace warmer.


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

This is pretty good Ya guy's just keep the post's comming


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

maybe some of you understand this or not but i'll describe it anyhow. 87 octane, which is normal gas, burns slow and not as hot as higher octane. now when an engine starts going for more performance say as in up the compression then you have a problem of compression and heat trying to ignite the fuel before its suppose to, so higher octane fuel is meant to burn slower so it wont knock. and i'm not going to completely agree with the idea of running lowest octane that doesn't knock....cause you can go a few points higher than that and get more performance, but if you just do low rpm city driving dont use higher cause it'll plug up and carbon up combustion chamber and valves. and running higher octane than needed will also overheat and kill your cat...maybe even kill your O2 sensor(s)


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## fastpakr (Sep 18, 2002)

No, that's pretty far off.

87 octane doesn't burn slow or less hot than higher octane fuel. It actually burns faster, although temperature should be approximately the same. Higher octane fuel burns slower/more consistently and has a higher flashpoint, so it takes higher compression to make it ignite (making detonation less likely). You WILL NOT get higher performance from going a few points higher - there is no more energy whatsoever in higher octane fuel. Octane references one thing - resistance to detonation. Running higher octane than needed has nothing to do with overheating and killing your catalytic converter or O2 sensors. The problems related to it are purely in the combustion chamber area.


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

So many people, with so many words to say. Can you back all your words up with actual proof? Websites/text books references? LOL!


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

how bout my diploma from an accredited auto tech school, or i could scan some pages out of my text book if i cared enough, look it up yourself and come to your own conclusion, many people seem to have different opinions on this, but it is all scientifically proven, go to the library or the bookstore and purchase an auto tech book. or search on google


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## sentravis (Jul 7, 2002)

so in other words.. this IS a good question.. lol.. so should i ask Sarah this question....?actually you know.. what.. you guys talk about paper work and all this shit.. if no one can agree on anything.. then forget it.. ill use what i think feels better in my car.. you guys have a nice day.. Travis


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## Centurion (Sep 5, 2002)

Octane, smocktane. Just get a block heater and you will get instant warmth in the Winter.


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## sentravis (Jul 7, 2002)

smocktane, cocktane.. how about.. i just get a remote starter.. this will end my questions.. and lets make a new thread regarding octain.. or actually.. we should read the old thread about it.. if i can find it.. Travis


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## niky (Jul 20, 2002)

focktane? Yeah, this argument is pointless. All gas delivers the same potential energy, it's just that hi-octane allows you to tune an engine more aggressively.

Cars built for low octane will experience little or no gains from going hi-oct, but no, you won't ruin your cat (unless you're using regular in an unleaded-only vehicle or you're running full blown race gas)

Cars built for high oct. will lose a LOT of performance from using poor man's gas.

Electronically controlled cars, like ours, vary in their reaction to gas... variables include car condition, modifications, fuel maps, and timing.

And, yah, remote starters rock. I used to have one on my old Sentra, and it was really convenient.


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## Exalta (Jan 21, 2003)

niky said:


> *focktane? Yeah, this argument is pointless. All gas delivers the same potential energy, it's just that hi-octane allows you to tune an engine more aggressively.
> 
> Cars built for low octane will experience little or no gains from going hi-oct, but no, you won't ruin your cat (unless you're using regular in an unleaded-only vehicle or you're running full blown race gas)
> 
> ...



Since my new Nissan cars (X-Trail and the departed Sentra with advanced timing) have a notice in the gauges and a sticker at the gas flap saying 95 Octane only, I follow it.


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## Spelchy (Jun 24, 1987)

octane is octane.. the resistance numbers don't change the amount of molar heat produced upon combustion. 

as far as the heater in your car, during the winter the best thing to do is let your car warm up, even if it takes a while. people around here screw up their vehicles all the time because of 2 simple things:
1. they drive just after starting the car, and something snaps or breaks in their engine because there was no time to warm up. Starting an engine when it's cold and immediately driving off is like sleeping for 8 hours, and then instantly waking up and jogging in the cold. you'll pull something.

2. they crash their car because they are concentrating on how cold they are, or their windows are fogged because their breath is still condensing.

If Ohio's temperature is anything like here, then you know that when it's -45 out that you need to let your car warm up. A remote starter is excellent to have if it's really freaking cold.


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## Boromir (Oct 13, 2002)

this might sound newbie, but whats nocks and pings?


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

I just realized my post at the top of the page is wrong. for some reason i said 87 octane burns slower i meant it burns faster. the rest is at least in my mind correct. and this thing of people saying to get a block heater....where do you get a block heater?!? everywhere i have been people are like duhhh whats that. closest thing i've found is one that goes in a freeze plug and they have a tendency to leak.


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## OniFactor (Nov 4, 2003)

and, also, if you go up in octane in a car, isn't it bad if you go back down? i normally run what's cheapest... 89, here...


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## Spelchy (Jun 24, 1987)

about every 4th or 5th tank i fill up with premium, and then go back to regular. I heard, or read somewhere that doing this is good for your engine. although it makes no sense to me, and could very well be garbage, i go by it nonetheless. any thoughts on this?


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## sentravis (Jul 7, 2002)

spelch said:


> about every 4th or 5th tank i fill up with premium, and then go back to regular. I heard, or read somewhere that doing this is good for your engine. although it makes no sense to me, and could very well be garbage, i go by it nonetheless. any thoughts on this?


yes.. makes sense.. go with what the factory recomends.. (unless advanced the timming) if you want to save money on gas.. and then goin to a higher octain would clean out the system... kinda like fuel injection cleaner.. (which is supposed to work but i believe its garbage).. then go back to factory suggested rating.. but me.... i think the 94 runs really nice in my car.. so im gonna stick to what i believe feels nice.. Travis


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## fastpakr (Sep 18, 2002)

Higher octane fuel will do nothing to 'clean out the system'.


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

he is very correct it will not clean out you fuel system, if anything it will make your head and intake mani have more carbon buildup on them and cause problems, i already have made my statements about octane, and if you keep switching all the time that isn't good either, its not that bad, our computers have an adaptive learning feature that will by the 4th or 5th tank start to have made minor adjustments, probably sooner than that. if anything, if you want to waste your money on premium fuel when not neccessary, then keep it the same all the time, i would even reccomend that you try to purchase the same brand if possible, there are many variances between manufacturers such as additives for higher octane, etc.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

and most fuel injector cleaners are not garbage...they have made a world of difference on a few cars i've worked on. and i used some octane boost/intake cleaner on my pulsar when i started using it and it had a hell of a hard time accelerating but i found out it was cause the cleaner was kicking all the carbon crap out. after a few tanks its smooth and runs wonderfully...still an underpowered e16 though


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

not all injectors should use injector cleaner, including the nissan side feed such as the sr20... most cars you should refer to the fsm before doing anything like using additives/cleaners...you will find that injector cleaner can ruin a side feed injector.


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## a_stupid_box (Nov 16, 2003)

sersr20dk said:


> not all injectors should use injector cleaner, including the nissan side feed such as the sr20... most cars you should refer to the fsm before doing anything like using additives/cleaners...you will find that injector cleaner can ruin a side feed injector.


I've used injector cleaner in every car I've owned, and it's really helped. So far it hasn't ruined a car.

Carbon buildup saps a lot of power, especially a carburator.

Of course, I only run the gutter-juice 87 octane gasoline because of the $$ I save (I drive my cars until they die). A bottle of injector cleaner, plus other occasional cleaning products, is great every third tank or so.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

ok..really stupid newb question then...whats a fsm? and if you can't use injector cleaner how do you clean your injectors?


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## sentravis (Jul 7, 2002)

Gsolo said:


> ok..really stupid newb question then...whats a fsm? and if you can't use injector cleaner how do you clean your injectors?


Factory Service Manual unless its code for something else lol.. 

and you would have to actually get new injectors or remove them at the fuel rail and clean them.. and i dont have an sr20 for one.. and two.. its not like its gonna kill it.. it will be fine.. its not like im running it in there everyday.. just once in a blue moon.. anyways.. im gonna unsubscribe from this post.. and you guys can stop responding if you wish.. im not checkin this anymore.. 
In conclusion.. im gonna go with 94.. just because it feels a LOT better.. not only that.. but im gonna rent a timming light and advance my timming anyways.. plus i have the hotshot CAI and fart canister.. so this will help.. can anyone dirrect me to the Timming mode post before i unsubscribe? im gonna search for it right now..

oh yeah.. also.. higher octain cleans the engine out as well.. 

Travis


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

dude since you removed yourself from this post let me be the one to say you are retarded, it will not clean out your engine running a higher octane. now i'm done too, and you guys with the injector cleaner, it might help short term, i agree with that, but it isn't going to help the injectors, if they are sidefeed in the future. but do what you want, they are your cars, if for some reason an injector fails it could cause huge damage, i was just trying to let you all know what nissan says about their injectors, you should remove them and have them cleaned, not use injector cleaner. thats to cover their ass in the unlikely case that the injector cleaner does do some damage.


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## sentravis (Jul 7, 2002)

sersr20dk said:


> dude since you removed yourself from this post let me be the one to say you are retarded, it will not clean out your engine running a higher octane. now i'm done too, and you guys with the injector cleaner, it might help short term, i agree with that, but it isn't going to help the injectors, if they are sidefeed in the future. but do what you want, they are your cars, if for some reason an injector fails it could cause huge damage, i was just trying to let you all know what nissan says about their injectors, you should remove them and have them cleaned, not use injector cleaner. thats to cover their ass in the unlikely case that the injector cleaner does do some damage.


maybe if you werent so self centered you would have payed attention to what i typed previously.. and that i said i wasnt gonna unsubscribe from this thread yet.. i personally really dont give a rats ass what you think.. you can have your own opinion.. and you can even back your opinion up.. but when you make comments about someone.. and wait untill you think they arent gonna read it and talk shit behind their backs.. thats just really lame my friend.. and when you find proof to back up what you say or dissagree with what i say.. then fine.. ill shut up and be on my way.. but untill someone DOES find proof.. there is NO right or wrong answer.. these are all just opinions untill proven fact.. yes i agree injectors should be removed and cleaned, and sometimes even replaced.. and i DO believe that i mentioned that earlier.. but your too busy talkin shit behind peoples backs.. anyways.. im not one to drag something on and on and on.. so you can say what you please.. thats fine.. i dont care.. let it be the end of that.. and hope this post helps someone out.. but IMO.. i believe that the 94 i use is clean!.. NOT PISS GAS.. it WILL clear your injectors of any shit piss you throw at it.. it feels better than piss gas.. and i believe i feel a major difference in performance with the CAI and fart canister.. and im gonna need this octain rating anyways later when i advance the timming.. so .. goodluck godspeed.. and let it be at that.. Travis


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## a_stupid_box (Nov 16, 2003)

<shrug>

Hasn't ruined a vehicle of mine yet, and my first car was a side feed that amassed 250k while I owned it... used injector cleaner in every other tank, and it still purred when I sold it. Of course I did baby the thing, and among other regular engine maintenance, removed/cleaned the injectors every 50k anyway (injector cleaner only helps so much).

So let's see... personal experience or the advice of someone who has an attitude problem... I think I'll go with personal experience, thanks. Maybe 250k is "short term", but as I'm not a collector, this is about the most mileage I'll ever put on a car.

That said, you are right -- higher octane will *not* clean the injectors. You didn't have to be such a jerk when presenting the information, however.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

children children.....simmer down....lemme just say one thing....whether higher octane is good or not, use what your owners manual says to use cause they know what is right seeing as how they have spent many hours working their asses off to make the engine work right. And any "bolt on" mods wont require higher octane rating...and no you may not argue what "bolt on" means cause you will just get picked on


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

i'm not cocky, and there is proof, if you don't trust traditional textbooks and fsm's, then go look at fuel tech on page 64 of sept. '03 turbo magazine, this is quoted from art brown, who is technical and operations manager of sunoco performance products, when asked the question, will using a higher octane than specified generate more power?..he replies with "no, it won't add a single horsepower-remember that octane primarily fights detonation. It won't hurt anything, either, execpt your wallet." he says while laughing. "Running a higher octane won't damage the motor", Brown says, "but why spend the extra money?"
"Find the lowest octane your engine will run on without detonation or pre-ignition and stick with it." Here is a quote from the book Automotive Technology
A Systems Approach, by Jack Erjavec, which can be found at any large bookstore. "An octane number or rating was devoloped by the petroleum industry so the antiknock quality of gasoline could be rated. The octane number is a measure of the fuel's tendancy not to produce knock in an engine. The higher the octane number, the less tendancy to knock. By itself, the antiknock rating has nothing to do with fuel ecconomy or engine efficiency." enough with the lectures, and enough about me being an asshole and such, but there has been tons of research done on this topic, and i have done the research when i had the same questions, and i was trying to tell you what the answer was many posts ago, but everytime someone doesn't care about research because it feels better or someone said this and that. i have gone to the point of using references because the fact that i have done my homework and you didn't, doesn't count. you obviously have not looked into your own questions, you just hear what you want. if sunocco says use the lowest possible you know it must be true, wouldn't they want you to spend more if they could just tell you it would make more power? they would but they can't use false information, so they state the truth. be my guest and keep giving sunocco your extra money so you feel better, it isn't gonna hurt anyone but you. since you don't care about money, i'll take any extra you have. you said you wanted proof, there it is. if that isn't good enough, actually pick up a book and do some research yourself, you will find that there are many resources on this topic, which all say the same thing i was telling you all along. please keep spending the extra money cause it makes your car feel better, cause it also makes me feel better to know you are wasting your money because you won't take my advice.


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## Spelchy (Jun 24, 1987)

well, there's certainly no reason to call anyone retarded.


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

and btw, re-read your post, you did say you were going to unsubscribe, then you said you needed to know about timing mode. i said it because i knew you were going to check the post, even though you said you were unsubscribing, i knew you couldn't resist that comment, lol. don't take it personal, this was directed at your ignorance about facts, and i feel that have given enough facts now that i'm done with lecturing about octane. i would tell you that to your face if you sat there in front of me telling me i am wrong. what proof do you have??????????.... oh yeah that right it just feels better, no facts, references or anything else. i'm not cocky i'm just right and you are wrong, if you can't realize that by re-reading this post, then yes you are retarded, i didn't start posting in this thread to make fun of you but you brought it upon yourself. go ahead re-read everything, i just did, and you seem cocky to me. even when presented with facts, you still stick to your guns about seat feel and have no logic or reason but that it feels better. that is the reason i called you retarded, because you have ignored everything for seat feel. do you know much about human psych? you can feel something is better just because it is in your head that 94 being a higher number is better right from the begining, and you are always going to biased towards when testing something with nothing but feel. if you care to continue this we can, but geez man, take some advice or don't ask for any.


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## Spelchy (Jun 24, 1987)

I never said i was unsubscri..... oh. he did.


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## a_stupid_box (Nov 16, 2003)

Whether you were right or wrong, calling someone retarded for any reason is still impolite. Unless of course they actually ARE physically or mentally retarded, but let's not nitpick (and I doubt you know this individual offline well enough to make such a diagnosis). But feel free to "justify" it all you want... after all, I suppose you're one of those 'never at fault' types that I see so often on forums...


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

a_stupid_box said:


> Whether you were right or wrong, calling someone retarded for any reason is still impolite. Unless of course they actually ARE physically or mentally retarded, but let's not nitpick (and I doubt you know this individual offline well enough to make such a diagnosis). But feel free to "justify" it all you want... after all, I suppose you're one of those 'never at fault' types that I see so often on forums...


yeah you really pinned me on that one, lol, if you knew me you'd know i admit my mistakes, and i'm not an asshole, i take back the retarded part you are right, you are just unedjucated in the aspect of cars and have a closed mind about things. that is what i should have said. i apoligize if i offended anyone with the retarded comment, thats just how i am with poeple i know, but you are right i don't know any one on this forum personally, so i will try to be more polite in the future.
drew


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## a_stupid_box (Nov 16, 2003)

I respect your ability to man up and admit you were at fault. Admirable quality indeed, more people should share it.


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