# new exhaust



## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

well i have discovered a rust hole in my muffler, surprisingly it hasn't affected sound output...yet (gonna stab it with a big screwdriver)

since my dad is going outta town in dec for awhile, i'm going to replace the exhaust under the story of the muffler falling off or becoming damaged....which is believible due to the hole and cracked welds

i will be getting a 2.25" aluminized mandrel bent catback made and will be using this muffler (2.25" inlet, dual 3" outlets)










that is all you may return to your lives


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## OK85NA2T (Nov 4, 2005)

are you planning on doing a turbo swap in the future? If so, go ahead with bigger piping.. I'd only go with the stock diameter if you plan on leaving the car stock for it's whole life which I don't think you are... just a thought, nice muffler though


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

OK85NA2T said:


> are you planning on doing a turbo swap in the future? If so, go ahead with bigger piping.. I'd only go with the stock diameter if you plan on leaving the car stock for it's whole life which I don't think you are... just a thought, nice muffler though


yes i do plan on going turbo (prolly a while away, i go turbo when this motor dies), but i dont have the financial backing to afford the bigger piping, i'll go to the shops and get quotes on 2.5 and 3"

edit: ok after a really quick IM convo with sponge i've decided to get the 2.5" catback with an aluminized muffler that i will need to get tips for


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

ok so i made up my mind 2.5" aluminized catback

heres a price list for the setup i'm gonna do just for reference purposes, some setups may be more some may be less

2.5" aluminized catback (w/o muffler and tips) from certified muffler $140.00 + shipping

Aluminized Magnaflow 5"x8"x18" oval body with 2.5" inlet, and dual 2.25" outlets (part number 12258) $79.85 w/ free shipping on ebay

2 magnaflow stainless steel tips, 3" diam., 7" length, 15* angle cut (part number 35131) $20.59 (each) w/ free shipping on ebay

total for parts roughly: $261.03 (not including shipping for catback, and install)

using ebay i saved about: $90.41


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## MrFurious (Oct 30, 2005)

and I was going to ask... Is the exhaust manifold outlet the same for the Turbo exhaust? I know the drivers side manifold is swapped when going turbo. But the manifold outlet is the same still? Reason why I ask is because I was waiting to get exhaust untill the turbo is on. But if none of that changes I might get it before. 

Here is what I was looking at.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8016186022&fromMakeTrack=true


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

thats just a muffler, u can go to certified muffler and get a turbo back exhaust without a muffler with a 3in diameter and it would fit right on


if i was going turbo soon i would 2, but my muffler is about to die so i figure might as well upgrade


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## MrFurious (Oct 30, 2005)

my exhaust is all rusty and the cat-converter is prolly' a little clogged. But I was going to put it off if it wasnt a match with the turbo header.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

well as long as theres no holes you should be fine, but the main difference in the NA and turbo exhaust is the downpipe other then that its pretty much the same


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## OK85NA2T (Nov 4, 2005)

Dude, if you're going turbo soon, then go with a 3". It's not going to be more expensive for half an inch wider pipe... if it is, it will be very minimal compared to the overall price of the system itself... why spend twice the money doing it over again when you do your swap?


Also, don't pay for someone else to install it... all of CM's stuff is bolt on, no welding


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## MrFurious (Oct 30, 2005)

His prices are high, really high. I would buy a muffler online and go cut all of the old stuff off. Then take it somewhere and have them bend some pipe and put it on. I had dual pipes made and mounted for my old car, and I bought the muffler from them, all for under 300. Is the "Off Road Pipe" a straight from the header to the rear? And whats the "Down Pipe" for the turbo?


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## OK85NA2T (Nov 4, 2005)

MrFurious said:


> His prices are high, really high. I would buy a muffler online and go cut all of the old stuff off. Then take it somewhere and have them bend some pipe and put it on. I had dual pipes made and mounted for my old car, and I bought the muffler from them, all for under 300. Is the "Off Road Pipe" a straight from the header to the rear? And whats the "Down Pipe" for the turbo?


"??? I am at loss for words for that statement."

rofl, okay look.

First off, your shop probably (it could) doesn't have a mandrel bender like CM does. It probably uses a crimp (crush) bender like most shops due, which decreases flow. Mandrel benders are $$$$$$$$$$$$ and if your shop charged you that little for an exhaust then it was crush bent.

off road pipes are a small section of pipe that replaces the cat. It's "off road" because not having a cat is illegal.

The down pipe is the pipe that comes off of o2 housing.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

To clarify a bit more, the downpipe is the pipe that comes off the turbo exhaust outlet and goes to the catalytic converter. 

An off road pipe is a plain pipe that is used to replace a catalytic converter, for performance purposes, as the cat is the single biggest restriction in an exhaust system. OK85 explained why its called an "Off Road" pipe.


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## MrFurious (Oct 30, 2005)

So $85 for a straight pipe that is like a foot and a half long? Yeeeahh'...  I know the difference between crimped pipes and pipes with a smooth bend. For a car with only street modifications spending a rediculas amount on exhaust (with stock headers) just so you dont have those little ripples in the bends is excessive. There is no need, you will be paying like quadrouple the amout or more for maby a gain of a couple of HP. Plus, my guess is the stock outlet from the stock heads is only 2" to 2.5", so if you put on a 3" pipe there will be plently room for the air flow. Now if you were building a prostreet car I would understand. Everything is over priced when you want to build on that level, and you are wanting to get every single HP out of it you can. But for a car that will see most of its miles on the street, its excessive in my opinion.


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## hondakillerZX (Aug 16, 2004)

ya dude for an "off road" pipe you can punch out the cat or get a section of pipe and weld on two flanges


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## MrFurious (Oct 30, 2005)

exactly what I was thinkin'... Plus I think you can get paid for doing it. You can sell the titanium that you knock out of the cat.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

MrFurious said:


> exactly what I was thinkin'... Plus I think you can get paid for doing it. You can sell the titanium that you knock out of the cat.


It's molybdenum, and you wouldn't get much for it. If you notice, cats aren't that expensive. If you were lucky, you might get $5 for what you knocked out of there. 

The other thing is, gutting a cat creats an odd sized restriction in the piping yet again. The exhaust gas rushes into the gutted cat, expands, turbulence is created by the leftovers of the honeycomb structure inside, and the gas is forced out the end by the expanding gas behind it. You'll gain some power, but not as much as you would by having a straight pipe there, which is why they are made...  Any muffler shop can make you an off-road pipe, they however can't install it for you as that would be illegal. $85 would be the most expensive one I've ever heard of, typical is about $30-$40.


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

MrFurious said:


> For a car with only street modifications spending a rediculas amount on exhaust (with stock headers) just so you dont have those little ripples in the bends is excessive. There is no need, you will be paying like quadrouple the amout or more for maby a gain of a couple of HP.


It's quite obvious you're clueless on this subject and you need to STFU. :loser: 

Maybe for someone with no modifications and driving a non turbo. But for anyone who really wants to let the motor run more to it's potential, the exhaust is EXTREMELY important.

I understand most people are getting 170ish rwhp on a stock system. My AE dynoed 182 with stock boost and the 3" mandrel bent exhaust. That's more than 10hp for the mathematically challenged. Or, a 6% increase. Now think what that would give for someone making, say, 300hp at the flywheel.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

OK85NA2T said:


> Dude, if you're going turbo soon, then go with a 3". It's not going to be more expensive for half an inch wider pipe... if it is, it will be very minimal compared to the overall price of the system itself... why spend twice the money doing it over again when you do your swap?
> 
> 
> Also, don't pay for someone else to install it... all of CM's stuff is bolt on, no welding


im not going turbo for atleast 2 years so why would i go 3" now? you dont know my plans so dont assume you do, and i need to have someone install it cuz i want it welded and the catback portion needs to be modified to fit my muffler


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## MrFurious (Oct 30, 2005)

AZ-ZBum said:


> It's quite obvious you know what you are talking about on this subject and you need to STFU. :loser:


ah' shut me up you prick'... Dont speak crazy to me, just makes you really annoying and appear like one of the stupid people in my life. :fluffy: 

You didnt compare one exhaust system to the other, you just said what your's dynoed at with what you had. Then said what your gains where compared to stock. And didnt the Z31 turbo come stock @200hp while the NA was rated @160hp? Thats gotta' be at the wheel too, because if not, those are really low numbers. My bike can do 160 at the wheel.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

ICP Sux0rZ! said:


> im not going turbo for atleast 2 years so why would i go 3" now? you dont know my plans so dont assume you do, and i need to have someone install it cuz i want it welded and the catback portion needs to be modified to fit my muffler


I'd say welding was a bad idea. Especially if you plan on going to the track someday. Besides, welding creates rust. Bolt on is just better.


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

MrFurious said:


> You didnt compare one exhaust system to the other, you just said what your's dynoed at with what you had. Then said what your gains where compared to stock.


Lets see... That would be a comparison of stock exhaust to a three inch mandral bent exhaust. Yep. I'm pretty sure that's a comparison right there.


MrFurious said:


> And didnt the Z31 turbo come stock @200hp while the NA was rated @160hp? Thats gotta' be at the wheel too, because if not, those are really low numbers. My bike can do 160 at the wheel.


Nope. That's at the flywheel. Drivetrain loss is roughly 12.5 to 15%. Your bike does 160 to the wheel? What kind of bike? You have a dyno chart? I'm going to have to raise the BS flag on this. There aren't many bikes that make anywhere close to that kind of power. At least, not from the factory.


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

AZ-ZBum said:


> Your bike does 160 to the wheel? What kind of bike? You have a dyno chart? I'm going to have to raise the BS flag on this. There aren't many bikes that make anywhere close to that kind of power. At least, not from the factory.


Hey! Found it....
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mchonda/00929.html

Yes. 160hp (at 11,500 rpms) is at the flywheel here too moron. And 76 ft.lbs. of torque? Don't make me laugh. The stock ratings of the Z31 were:
bore = 87mm; stroke = 83mm; 6 cylinder, "V" configuration
84-87 Z31 NA: VG30E, CR 9.0:1, 160hp @ 5200, *173ft-lbs @ 4300*
88-89 Z31 NA: VG30E, CR 9.0:1, 165hp @ 5200, *173ft-lbs @ 4300*
84-87 Z31 Turbo: VG30ET, CR 7.8:1, T3, 6.7psi, 200hp @ 5200, *227ft-lbs @ 3600*
88-89 Z31 Turbo: VG30ET, CR 8.3:1, T25, 4.5psi, 205hp @ 5200, *227ft-lbs @ 3600*

As I read in someone else's signature on another message board and thought was quite amusing anecdote:
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you move it.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

Zen31ZR said:


> I'd say welding was a bad idea. Especially if you plan on going to the track someday. Besides, welding creates rust. Bolt on is just better.


well i need at least a part of it welded where they cut and shorten the pipes to make the muffler fit right and also the hangers and what not


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

If you buy the right exhaust section, you don't need to worry about cutting it. It just needs to be welded on.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

the cat back from certified is made to fit a muffler with a 14" body length, my muffler is gonna be 18" body length, so i need to cut off 4 inches somewhere


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

You're not going to be able to use the CM rear section then. I doubt you'd even be able to fit that muffler under the car.

Take a look here:
http://www.netsnapshot.com/pcw/b?KEY=67&ACCOUNT=1977

Note in picture "pict3616" how there is a bend right before the muffler gets attached. You cut off 4" of the pipe, and you'll have the muffler shooting out through the side of the car.

Pick a different muffler.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

AZ-ZBum said:


> You're not going to be able to use the CM rear section then. I doubt you'd even be able to fit that muffler under the car.
> 
> Take a look here:
> http://www.netsnapshot.com/pcw/b?KEY=67&ACCOUNT=1977
> ...


have you ever measured the stock muffler? its 19" long.....with 10" of tip, my setup will fill i'll just need to cut from the right sections


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

ICP Sux0rZ! said:


> have you ever measured the stock muffler? its 19" long.....with 10" of tip, my setup will fill i'll just need to cut from the right sections


Did you even click the link and look at the pictures? You see those sharp bends in the stock exhaust? Those are BAD, mmm-kay?

Get this muffler:
http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=main&id=463

With the CM 2.5" catback and call it a day. No modifying, no screwing around, bolt on and go.

If you want to try to fit that other muffler under the car, then don't even bother with the CM exhaust. You'll spend more money and time modifying it to make it work than you would just having some place make you a new exhaust.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

i musta missed that one fist time around :thumbup: 


thanks yet again for putting the youngin back in his place


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

ok so i figured its about time i posted the reason why i need a new exhaust










that was 95% rusted out, couple light taps with a small hammer revealed that


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

hehehehe... reminds me of mine. You can see in those pictures I have no muffler tips? That's cause they fell off while driving.


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## OK85NA2T (Nov 4, 2005)

ICP Sux0rZ! said:


> im not going turbo for atleast 2 years so why would i go 3" now? you dont know my plans so dont assume you do, and i need to have someone install it cuz i want it welded and the catback portion needs to be modified to fit my muffler



Sorry, I don't like buying the same thing twice when you can just buy it once and be done with it. I guess that's the stupid way to go about it and that your "plans" for the car make it so.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

ok i need a list of advantages to replacing a busted OEM system with a bigger aluminized system

dad told me he would pay for a new system (the aluminized one) now hes telling me he'd rather spend more for the OEM system

he said when he replaced it he paid about $270, i can get the aluminized catback and muffler for $215, and install it myself


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## MrFurious (Oct 30, 2005)

AZ-ZBum said:


> Your bike does 160 to the wheel? What kind of bike? You have a dyno chart? I'm going to have to raise the BS flag on this. There aren't many bikes that make anywhere close to that kind of power. At least, not from the factory.


It isnt stock, but it is naturally asperated (<spelling?). And actually there are a few sportbikes that can do 160 at the wheel stock in the 2005 line-up. R1=180hp at the crank.


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## dales86t (Nov 1, 2005)

Exactly, CRANK, fool! I'll agree with the bum on this one, this myth is busted.

Coax ya old man into buying you the new larger exhaust too, the muffler on a zed is so restrictive it just isnt funny. you can actually feel it hold you back too, so from advice, replace it.

OK dude what ever your name is, 3 inch is too big for NA simply robs too much power and driveability is out the window, and if he is going to go turbo later on, then he can do it then, but exhausts are not expensive and you can even get curious and home make your own, it isnt hard.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

dales86t said:


> Coax ya old man into buying you the new larger exhaust too, the muffler on a zed is so restrictive it just isnt funny. you can actually feel it hold you back too, so from advice, replace it.


i need a list of advantages to going with bigger aluminized catback then sticking with OEM stuff, my dad doesn't care about peformance he cares about realibility, which setup would last longer and be more cost effective in the long run


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## OK85NA2T (Nov 4, 2005)

dales86t said:


> Exactly, CRANK, fool! I'll agree with the bum on this one, this myth is busted.
> 
> Coax ya old man into buying you the new larger exhaust too, the muffler on a zed is so restrictive it just isnt funny. you can actually feel it hold you back too, so from advice, replace it.
> 
> OK dude what ever your name is, 3 inch is too big for NA simply robs too much power and driveability is out the window, and if he is going to go turbo later on, then he can do it then, but exhausts are not expensive and you can even get curious and home make your own, it isnt hard.



"driveability is out the window"
...
wtf? 
robs too much hp? huh? you mean the 1 hp less that he'll gain getting a 3" instead of a 2.5?


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## dales86t (Nov 1, 2005)

torque suffers from too big of a system on a NA car. Requires higher RPM to get usable drivability out of it. the car is a daily driver as quoted, why would you sacrifice low down to gain useless in traffic top end? sure it may not be much of a difference, but it is noticable. 

Look on the internet at some cars with large exhausts as compared to the smaller types with moderate sized pipes. The larger the exhaust on an n/a the slower it will go. Even a big bent eight needs something to pressure off. 

I think this has been covered somewhere for the zeds, but if you wish to argue with so many prooven points be my guest.

As for the turbo swap, good idea, good base comp ratio to start off with, and for the smaller turbo swap the 2 and a half inch system should be good still. when the numbers and power bugs run loose the system will need to be made a tad bigger.

He is only going from cat back, so why would he want a 3 inch cat back on an NA? please i cant figure it out, so please enlighten me.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

ok hey guys i know your both trying to prove your points to each other, but lets get back to the current issue

OEM catback and muffler Vs. 2.5" aluminized catback and flow-though muffler

performance differences, gains, reliability, basically why my dad should upgrade to the aluminized catback instead of replacing it with an OEM remake


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

ICP Sux0rZ! said:


> ok hey guys i know your both trying to prove your points to each other, but lets get back to the current issue
> 
> OEM catback and muffler Vs. 2.5" aluminized catback and flow-though muffler
> 
> performance differences, gains, reliability, basically why my dad should upgrade to the aluminized catback instead of replacing it with an OEM remake


Because it is cheaper and sounds better. You may gain a little performance. You certainly won't hurt reliability.


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## dales86t (Nov 1, 2005)

yeah if anything the system will last longer and be less likely prone to rusting being alloy. it does sound better, the warranty is better, price is better, Fuel ecconomy as a less restrictive type, More resale on the car, and it'll shut you up for a while 

how many fathers cant be happy with that?


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

dales86t said:


> yeah if anything the system will last longer and be less likely prone to rusting being alloy. it does sound better, the warranty is better, price is better, Fuel ecconomy as a less restrictive type, More resale on the car, and it'll shut you up for a while
> 
> how many fathers cant be happy with that?


about how much would fuel econ improve? (estimates are fine)


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## lostmenoggin (Sep 10, 2005)

a little bit.


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## lostmenoggin (Sep 10, 2005)

dales86t said:


> and it'll shut you up for a while



Somehow I doubt that....


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

ok so heres what i got so far:


the main things:
cheaper
higher rust resistence
slightly increased HP and torque
slightly improved fuel econ

the bonus's:
better sound
better looks
just plan better

am i missing anything


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## nissandrew (Aug 23, 2005)

ICP Sux0rZ! said:


> the bonus's:
> better sound
> better looks
> just plan better
> ...


"just plain better" is not a good argument, IMO


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

nissandrew said:


> "just plain better" is not a good argument, IMO


lol sounds like a good one to me, its better and cheaper, he shouldn't really need much else then that


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## nissandrew (Aug 23, 2005)

ICP Sux0rZ! said:


> lol sounds like a good one to me, its better and cheaper, he shouldn't really need much else then that


Well, best of luck to ya'. I do hope you get the exhaust that you want.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

ICP Sux0rZ! said:


> ok so i figured its about time i posted the reason why i need a new exhaust
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ummmm on the 87s is this the only muffler or are there 2...

Because if there is just one, mine's missing

I haven't crawled up and inspected the exhaust before.... Never really paid attention to it. So I didn't know if they shoved one somewhere else also


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## OK85NA2T (Nov 4, 2005)

All Z31's have one muffler, one cat, two tips coming out of the muffler. stock.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Well then... I have one cat and the pipe that goes right next to the rear diff and the pipe that connects that one to the muffler..

Surprisingly the cat must really smooth out the tone of the engine because mine sounds really good.


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

asleepz said:


> Well then... I have one cat and the pipe that goes right next to the rear diff and the pipe that connects that one to the muffler..


Say huh? I'm confused.

There is a pipe that goes from the turbo (or exhaust manifolds) to the cat. And another pipe that runs from the cat to the muffler. This pipe runs over the driver halfshaft. Is that what you're talking about?


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

AZ-ZBum said:


> Say huh? I'm confused.
> 
> There is a pipe that goes from the turbo (or exhaust manifolds) to the cat. And another pipe that runs from the cat to the muffler. This pipe runs over the driver halfshaft. Is that what you're talking about?


he has everything except the muffler basically


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Everything but up to the muffler... I even had a pipe that was supposed to connect to the muffler still hanging there by it's hanger...


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## OK85NA2T (Nov 4, 2005)

and you actually thought that was normal? or were you trying to make a clever way to tell everyone you were running without a muffler... lol =)


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Well I haven't really looked at the bottom of the car and focused on the exhaust. I figured that there was another one somewheres else, because it's way quiet 
compared to other cars I have heard.


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## hondakillerZX (Aug 16, 2004)

hey guys should i get the turbo back or just get an exhaust cut out on the down pipe


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## dales86t (Nov 1, 2005)

Definantly the later on that one


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Not on the downpipe but right before the cat. Or maybe get a flange to hook directly to the downpipe and then run the pipe to the cat after that... The best way to do that would be to get the 3" d/p and the 3" cutout.


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## dales86t (Nov 1, 2005)

Id have to say truck stacks on this one. Nothing else comes close.......


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

explain more of what your talking about... I believe I'm thinking about semi 6" vertical stacks... Surely to goodness this is different.


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