# My car lost ~130lbs today. Now W/pics!



## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

*My car lost ~130lbs today.*

Well I did it. I was just going to strip the trunk, but then I kept moving forward. My car is pretty much gutted from the front seats back. Yes including my subs. I didnt "bump" around town anyway. If I hadnt been bothered by some friends of mine Im sure It would have been worse. I guess this means the carpet and the tar are next. Ill let you know how much I get rid of and what I think of the car after.


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## holy200sx (Jan 8, 2003)

drive any different? nope. lol


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

holy200sx said:


> *drive any different? nope. lol *


Yes it does. LOL


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## NismoB14 (Nov 1, 2002)

big time, one time i took out everything except my seat, ie... door panels, speakers, spare, etc..... HUGE DIFFERENCE.. specially in the 200sx which is already light.


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## holy200sx (Jan 8, 2003)

see. if i work out.. maybe loose like half of my fat ass.. and get down to a healthy.. 200/180.. somewhere around there.. then i could like.. have lost 100lbs already.. damn.. i need to reduce some weight
hahaha


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

How does a person ever notice any difference in hp? I don't know if you guys have a 6th sense or something? I mean unless its really a big gain you really won't notice anything! 
A 100lbs sub out of the trunk and you really won't notice any hp gain at all...not to be rude or anythings its just facts I'm saying here! 
You will get hp gain, but not enough to notice anything by yourself.


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## dry (Oct 21, 2002)

130 lbs is 5% of the cars origional weight which when you think of it, is a lot.


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## NismoB14 (Nov 1, 2002)

you don't "gain" any horsepower dude. without engine modification, it is impossible to gain horsepower. it just makes acceleration quicker and high speeds easier to reach. I'm just stating the fact.....but my facts are right.


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## SR20D_GTI (Nov 4, 2002)

It improves your weight to HP readings. Which is a performance gain. just think stick an sr20 engine in something smaller and lighter it will be quicker


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## Guest (May 5, 2003)

Yeah, but riding around sitting on that upside down bushel basket is not cool when the cops pull you over... lol


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

You are right, you don't gain any hp removing subs, you just gain more acceleration. That less weight removes some of the friction force!! But come on...you know what I meant!!!
But I'm still saying, how would anyone notice small hp gains without using a dyno? It's not really possible! Big changes I can understand...you could probably notice!


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## rkeith (Jan 12, 2003)

Dude, dropping that weight is like kicking an extra passenger out the door.... Its noticable....


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

UNISH25 said:


> *How does a person ever notice any difference in hp? I don't know if you guys have a 6th sense or something? I mean unless its really a big gain you really won't notice anything!
> A 100lbs sub out of the trunk and you really won't notice any hp gain at all...not to be rude or anythings its just facts I'm saying here!
> You will get hp gain, but not enough to notice anything by yourself. *


First of all, there is no HP gain by removing weight. There is, however, a perceived performance gain. I am not absolutely sure, but someone once told me something along the lines of the equivalent of 1HP for every 10 pounds your remove as a general rule of thumb. By that theory, you'd gain 10HP for that 100lb sub. Now, I really doubt it's that much and if it is that much, it'd seem to me that would be at the flywheel and not wheels. 

I would suggest loading your car down with 300-400 pounds of crap in the trunk and backseat and going out and ragging on the car accelerating from stop signs and traffic lights. Then go and remove that weight and see what happens. You *WILL* notice a difference.

Also, to perceive an actual horsepower increase (intake/exhaust/cams/etc) you could gain a quick handle on the increased performance by a dip in a road as a friend once did. Although not completely accurate, he was able to ascertain power gain by seeing where he shifted into third from a stop sign in relation to a dip in the road. With the car stock, he was in 3rd for 3 or so seconds before the dip. With all the bolt-ons, he was hitting 3rd right around the dip. With his turbo... I think he's still in first with the tires spinning


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

u will notice a difference with less weight.....its called power to weight ratio...u wont gain hp, but since there is less weight for the car to push...guess what? u go faster!


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## Neil (Aug 13, 2002)

I know when i moved from GA to CT and put my entire life in my car it probably equaled around 400-500 lbs extra in my car and it was a DOG, especially on the mountains of Pennsylvania. It did look like I had a 3" drop though


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## zeno (Sep 17, 2002)

> How does a person ever notice any difference in hp? I don't know if you guys have a 6th sense or something? I mean unless its really a big gain you really won't notice anything!


I can notice a difference when I add hp. It is nothing like being thrown back in your seat but even a couple of hp is slightly noticable if you know your car. Just cleaning up my throttle body made the car feel better.

Weight can make huge difference, I read of a 200SX that dropped a whole second off their 1/4 mile time by dropping the weight to around ~2000lbs


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## Katana200sx (May 13, 2002)

ive had my car gutted from the front on back for over a year. i couldnt feel a seat of the pants difference in acceleration but i sure did notice it on my timeslips. ran an 11.3 then after the stripping and a cheap short shifter i ran a 11.1. changing my driving got it down to a 10.9


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## HLBulldog (Mar 12, 2003)

yea my brother has a stock civic HB and a friend of mine also has the same model and same year and almost same mileage but has no rear seats or carpet and i think the rear speakers are gone also and i noticed a difference in acceleration. its a lot like running with a back pack on vs. w/o one on.


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## Teknokid (Jun 1, 2002)

UNISH25 said:


> *But I'm still saying, how would anyone notice small hp gains without using a dyno? It's not really possible! Big changes I can understand...you could probably notice! *


My HotShot CAI gave me 5HP and 8lb TQ, do you consider this small?? I just got an underdrive pulley and although the horsepower is not that noticeable I can feel an improvement. 

Anyways, on a dyno, your car is stationary so your car isnt really pulling any weight. It is just going against the rollers. So you can have a stock car, stock engine and tock out 100HP at the wheels. If you gut the whole car, more likely than not youre gonna get the same reading. Now think about it like this. 100 HP engine pulling a 2500 lb car vs a 100HP engine pulling a 2200 lb car. Which one is gonna win?? Putting all variables aside and assuming you have perfect conditions.


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

Teknokid said:


> *My HotShot CAI gave me 5HP and 8lb TQ, do you consider this small?? I just got an underdrive pulley and although the horsepower is not that noticeable I can feel an improvement.
> 
> Anyways, on a dyno, your car is stationary so your car isnt really pulling any weight. It is just going against the rollers. So you can have a stock car, stock engine and tock out 100HP at the wheels. If you gut the whole car, more likely than not youre gonna get the same reading. Now think about it like this. 100 HP engine pulling a 2500 lb car vs a 100HP engine pulling a 2200 lb car. Which one is gonna win?? Putting all variables aside and assuming you have perfect conditions. *


EXACTLY

damn chris, u made it seem like it was 2+2....easy.lol


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## twisted200ser (Jun 4, 2002)

i have allways gone buy the saying "100 pounds is a tenth in the quarter" sport compact car did this a year ago they cut that new sentra up and shaved 2 secs off of the 1/4 mile


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## zeno (Sep 17, 2002)

This is what they did. Completely ugly and nonfuctional put they did it to prove a point.....weight matters!


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

I remember that issue but I was going to say the same thing that Tekno said. But to give it a better visual take a mustang and take a geo metro give them the same engine who do you think is going win?


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Im glad to see such a responce on this. I know you guys are talking alot of power to weight stuff, but dont forget handling. Thats is 75% of the reason I did this. Only 25% for power:weight. Lighter cars corner better!!!  I gutted a little more tonight. To the tune of about 20 more lbs. So my new total(counting subs) is 150ish. I have a few more things I want to lose then Ill take some pics for you guys.


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> *Im glad to see such a responce on this. I know you guys are talking alot of power to weight stuff, but dont forget handling. Thats is 75% of the reason I did this. Only 25% for power:weight. Lighter cars corner better!!!  I gutted a little more tonight. To the tune of about 20 more lbs. So my new total(counting subs) is 150ish. I have a few more things I want to lose then Ill take some pics for you guys. *


Yes, that makes a difference as well with the handling. When my car went on a somewhat diet last summer, I was impressed with the response. I got faster on the straights (2-5MPH) and handled much better. Honestly, I usually have crap in the trunk and backseat during everyday driving (probably to the tune of 100 or so pounds) and it makes a difference when I lose that stuff at the track. Now, with all the weight lost and a better suspension, I can't wait to see how the car handles this year!


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## NismoB14 (Nov 1, 2002)

yeah, didnt that gutted ass sentra run like a 14.3???


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

Dayum...I corrected mahself in the last post.!!!!! I'm an engineer ok, I get used to making mistakes a lot...LOL! Anyways a 400lb removal from the trunk I can understand, but 100lbs?!! Come on...it's not gonna really be noticeable. When I was in my driving a full house Sentra(5 passesengers each about 180) there was a noticeable drop in acceleration!! Take them out and yes...but if you remove a 100lb object your really not gonna notice that acceleration difference. Maybe since your car is low in acceleration then yah. 

Ok and for the hp gain of 5...hmm...since we are used to 115hp cars, we probably would notice the gain. But if we were in a faster car then probably not. I had a 10hp gain on another car, and it was not really noticeable. Maybe it depends on the car and the driver.LOL! But the only way to find true gain in an item is by doing dyno tests...
And I do still believe that small hp gains are not really noticeable!


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Well, can tell you that I have noticed a difference, and that I could always notice a difference with only one passenger in my car. Even sub 150lbs ones.


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

UNISH25 said:


> *
> Ok and for the hp gain of 5...hmm...since we are used to 115hp cars, we probably would notice the gain. But if we were in a faster car then probably not. I had a 10hp gain on another car, and it was not really noticeable. Maybe it depends on the car and the driver.LOL! But the only way to find true gain in an item is by doing dyno tests...
> And I do still believe that small hp gains are not really noticeable! *


Give me a car... any car and let me take that car on the track for 10, maybe 20 laps or so. Then, remove 100lbs and I will prove to you what a difference that 100lbs made. Lap times and a consistent driver are as good as a dyno


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

True that


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

Ok here is the thing everyone has a different sensory perception level some people notice small changes others don't so if one person notices a difference doesn't mean someone else will and vice versa. UNISH25 you may not find 100lb to be 'noticable' difference but it is very possible for Pat and some others to find it to be a noticable difference people are different.


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

BTW, pics tommorow.


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

word


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

I've done this before and found that all it really did for me was make the car uncomfortable.I have no sound deadening or heat insulation in my 79 AMC and it makes the car really loud and hot.(BTW, this is a fairly serious street car that maybe gets driven 1 day a week).I just can't see doing this to a daily driven car that is not heavily modified and compromised for performance.Not trying to diss anyone here,just giving another perspective on the issue.


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

himilefrontier said:


> *I've done this before and found that all it really did for me was make the car uncomfortable.I have no sound deadening or heat insulation in my 79 AMC and it makes the car really loud and hot.(BTW, this is a fairly serious street car that maybe gets driven 1 day a week).I just can't see doing this to a daily driven car that is not heavily modified and compromised for performance.Not trying to diss anyone here,just giving another perspective on the issue. *


I'll agree with that! I did it nearly a year ago and didn't quite go all the way with weight removal. The backseats have been out for that entire time and that alone creates a lot of sound deadening! I'm waiting till after this summer of track events to put the seats back in. The car gets driven on the weekends only and it's still annoying. My girlfriend doesn't like all the squealing and especially the fact that you can't recline the passenger seat because of the rollbar but that's a whole different issue


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

Rama said:


> *Ok here is the thing everyone has a different sensory perception level some people notice small changes others don't so if one person notices a difference doesn't mean someone else will and vice versa. UNISH25 you may not find 100lb to be 'noticable' difference but it is very possible for Pat and some others to find it to be a noticable difference people are different. *


Yeah you do have a point Rama, I guess it all depends on the driver...


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## Teknokid (Jun 1, 2002)

Maybe Pat doesnt care about looks or anything. Anyways, Pat how did you figure you lost all that weight, did you put it on a scale?? I really wish there was a way i could weigh my car with all the stuff i have in it to get a true power to weight ratio.


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## Honest Bob (Nov 7, 2002)

This reminds me of my old 1984 Pontiac Sunbird with the 1.8L 4 cyl. The car was noticably faster when accelerating when it had a quarter of a tank of gas VS a full tank. Sad.... I couldnt notice a diffrence with either the B13 or my current B14.


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

I can understand your points about it bein a daily driver. So far the noise does not bother me and I have honestly felt the gains, both in acell. and cornering. Its worth it to me. To each his own.

How did I weigh it? Well not the best way, but it works... I weighed myself on the digital bathroom scale, then grabbed all the parts I could hold and did it again. The difference is the weight of the parts.


himilefrontier, by taking this step I may be on my way to a daily driven car that is heavily modified and compromised for performance.


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## Greg200SE-R (Feb 5, 2003)

DryBoy said:


> *130 lbs is 5% of the cars origional weight which when you think of it, is a lot. *


Going by this quote, think of it this way: take 5% of your own body weight (say 8 to 10lbs, average). Now imagine strapping that weight to yourself and running around for a little while like those fitness freaks do. Then, take them off. Would you feel a difference? Yup. Would you be faster and more agile? Yup. OK, before you decide to flame me, know that I realize that this far from a realistic and direct comparison... But sometimes making things as simple as possible is the best way to show a point. It's a worthwhile "modification," Patt! Weight reduction is one of the best mods!

By the way, PatScottAKA99XE has proven his knowledge on suspension and handling on several occasions. I just don't know whether to call him "Pat" or "Patt" cuz I have seen both! Happy speeding to all.


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> *himilefrontier, by taking this step I may be on my way to a daily driven car that is heavily modified and compromised for performance. *


Well put! "Compromise" is a good word to describe it. I wouldn't throw those parts out just yet! I was willing to compromise last summer but everything is driving me nuts now and I'm willing to compromise performance (on the street) after this summer for comfort in the car. I'm just glad I didn't let it get the better of me and start removing the dash and radio like I wanted to!


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

My name is Patrick, but anyone here can call me Pat.

I wouldnt even think of getting rid of the parts. You never know....


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## 1 WICKED SE-R (Apr 13, 2003)

the castrol 200 weighed in ~2040 -2080
of course being a track car, i didnt need all the nessecities
weight with me in --- 2250 and still taged 

you should have seen the face of the cops that pull me over and the look in the car and see nothing but a seat, dash, 10 pt cage
hahahaa


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

1 WICKED SE-R said:


> *the castrol 200 weighed in ~2040 -2080
> of course being a track car, i didnt need all the nessecities
> weight with me in --- 2250 and still taged
> 
> ...


A while back, I remember Andris Laivins got ticketed for an abandoned vehicle. He's got a gutted classic with a race seat and cage. Him and his roommate forgot to move their cars on alternate-side-of-the-street day and got ticketed. His roommate got a parking ticket. Andris got an abandoned vehicle ticket! He has it scanned somewhere.

Then I got pulled over in my bolt-on (with a rollbar) SE-R once. The cop just came up and had two things to say. 1)Are you trying to make this road into your own personal racetrack? and 2)You've got a bolt missing in your rollbar (which I did). Luckily the fact that I was wearing a tux and coming from a black tie dinner in the city helped get me out of it. Imagine the look on his face pulling over someone in an import driving fast at 3AM to find a respectable young guy in a tux?!?


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## 1 WICKED SE-R (Apr 13, 2003)

ha 
dude thats classic
what a good cop to point out that you had a bolt missing 
thats even better


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

LMAO


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Pics:

























Man, I need to clean that thing


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## BORNGEARHEAD (Apr 30, 2002)

^^^^ That's what I'm talkin bout.


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## Greg200SE-R (Feb 5, 2003)

Pat, nice pics - all business!
Is that a Nismo shift knob I see in your car? If it is, how do you like it? How is the feel? And can you just throw it into gear during quick shifts without worrying about your hand sliding off? I want one of those, but can't quite justify the price to myself at the moment... considering my Teins just arrived today, and I should be seeing the bill in a few... thanks man


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> *Pics:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hehehe.... looks familiar. No need to clean it; it's a racecar, remember?  That's the best excuse for not cleaning


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## rkeith (Jan 12, 2003)

Hey, Pat..... how long did it take you to do this project? Also--tho I know its still needed--if you drop that spare theres another 10-20 lbs......


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## zeno (Sep 17, 2002)

Well it is definitely funcional over aesthetic.  

You should clean it up and paint that bad boy, or maybe add some of those aluminum floor panels (that is, if they don't weigh too much  )


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

Is that your Stage 1 weight reduction??!!!! LOL! Yo man...what if you bring your girl up in there now? LOL!
That thing looks maddd funny!


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

UNISH25 said:


> *Is that your Stage 1 weight reduction??!!!! LOL! Yo man...what if you bring your girl up in there now? LOL!
> That thing looks maddd funny! *


I drove my girlfriend around for 500 miles on Saturday... needless to say, she didn't quite 'like' all the rattling, squealing, and discomfort  She did mention she 'liked' the vibration from the engine though


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

hehehe...I meant, since you have no backseat...LOL!


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

UNISH25 said:


> *hehehe...I meant, since you have no backseat...LOL! *


Ohhhhh.... well, my backseat's in my spare bedroom... where it belongs


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Hmm,
Looks like you need a roll cage.

Seth


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

sethwas said:


> *Hmm,
> Looks like you need a roll cage.
> 
> Seth *


Me? I've got one (not that I plan on using it)

GSD Racing


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Yeah, that a NISMO shift knob. I like it and have never had any problem with missed shifts.

Ive spent about a total of 2 hours doing this, thats including the beers.

After I remove the tar from the floor I am going to paint it all one color.

No need for a rear seat, I always rather recline the fron passenger seat. Which brings me to the next comment.

Autopower bolt in race bar soon.

I am also looking into lightweight seats.


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## Teknokid (Jun 1, 2002)

Also Pat, if i may make a suggestion, how about a CF or fiberglass hood??


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Well as soon as Mike K goes into production with his 400R style hood for B14s Ill have one. I was almost thinking about gutting the supports out of my stocker, but Ill just wait. The trunk may get gutted.


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> *
> No need for a rear seat, I always rather recline the fron passenger seat. Which brings me to the next comment.
> 
> Autopower bolt in race bar soon.
> ...


Pat, FYI, the front seats won't really recline much with a rollbar  My driver's side reclines a bit but who sleeps while driving (aside from a ricer)? The passenger seat reclines less than the driver side. You have to bring the seat very far forward to recline it. If you want, I'll take some pics for you. It'll (obviously) be a little different since I have a 2-door (better  ) B14 but it'll be a good point for comparisson


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## 1 WICKED SE-R (Apr 13, 2003)

you can also get a larger bar for the vack so you can recline more to feel comfortable
i thinks its actually called the recline bar - may not be - but anyway its the bar that goes behind the back seat that connects the driver side bar and the pass bar 
i think you can get it with a 4", 6", 8" bend


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

1 WICKED SE-R said:


> *you can also get a larger bar for the vack so you can recline more to feel comfortable
> i thinks its actually called the recline bar - may not be - but anyway its the bar that goes behind the back seat that connects the driver side bar and the pass bar
> i think you can get it with a 4", 6", 8" bend *


Personally, that's for wusses that still want to recline the seat. If you're putting a rollbar in the car, you've gotten to the point that you are willing to sacrifice everyday comfort for the piece of mind that you'll be safe should you flip your car


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## 1 WICKED SE-R (Apr 13, 2003)

yeah but i was looking out for the show car enthusists
hahaha what am i talking about i hate all show and no go
its still a roll bar
and if you drive your shit to the show or race depending on which one you do, then wouldnt you like to be comfortable on a 2 hr drive
i know i would 
and if you deceide to throw the pass seat in when you have a pass, then you can with 4 -14mm bolts or 3 like i use and the pass you have will be comfortable also
who likes a bitchin, complaining pass anyway


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

I was trying to be sarcastic... I couldnt care less about having a seat that reclines. Just have to take her car.


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

BTW, I would like to see pics of your setup. THX


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> *BTW, I would like to see pics of your setup. THX *


D'oh! I was just down changing the oil. I'm in a condo and it's down in the garage so it's more of a PITA than it'd be for most... I'll take pics tomorrow when I'm loading the car up for the first track event of the year! Unfortunately, it'll have to be on blown AGX/ProKits


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## lovemyser (Mar 14, 2003)

As a general rule of thumb 100lbs = 6hp. But it varys. 

Hey pat. What about the seat covers and the spare. You could pull them.

one time I gutted my 86 pulsar. But it was hard to notice a change in power with no place to sit. I sat on a bucket. 
If I drop 200 pounds from my 96 truck I notice a difference. Tailgate, sparetire, jack, junk, bedliner, 1/4 tank of gas. It helps the mileage department to. No need to rev just short shift around.

Oh, one more thing I don't worry about not having a spare. My State Farm policy has free towing. Hey I gotta recoop my cash someway.


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## NismoB14 (Nov 1, 2002)

wow, ultimate reduction mode. you should definately get some different seat covers man. sorry, the "camel beige" isnt goin with the grey too well. other than that, tight deal.


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## Mecho1.6 (May 8, 2003)

what all did you take out.


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

The digi cam does weird things to some colors. Those seat covers are grey belive it or not.


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> *BTW, I would like to see pics of your setup. THX *


I took a few pics tonight as I was loading the car with all the crap for the track. I was too tired to move some stuff and take REAL detailed pics. If there's anything specific you'd like, shoot me a PM and I'll take the pics after the weekend. I've done a writeup too if/when you're interested. In fact, since you don't live all *THAT* far, maybe I could meet up and help you out  

BTW, be forewarned, the SE-R you're about to see is FILTHY and I'm not too proud of it 

http://www.kieranlavin.com/SE-R/rollbar


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Thanks for the pics! Looks great man. Dont be ashamed, its a race car right


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> *Thanks for the pics! Looks great man. Dont be ashamed, its a race car right  *


Uh... sort of. It's a streetable racecar... but becoming more and more a dedicated track slut that gets me around sometimes when it has to on the street too. I like it to be at least somewhat clean on the outside! It's got crappy pollen all over it!  All I care about is how it looks passing all those 'faster' cars


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

"All I care about is how it looks passing all those 'faster' cars"
Thats the best thing I have heard all day. I have been catching alot of flak since I started this, both here and at work. One guy at work seemed seemed like he thought I was retarded or bumped my head when I pulled my subs. "Man, how are you gonna listen to your music?" He asked. Others say its ugly. I have never cared about the looks of my car. Id rather have it for go then show. If I ever get a day off from work(have to work this weekend) I wanna get at the tar and clean up(and out) some old wiring.


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

PatScottAKA99XE said:


> *
> Thats the best thing I have heard all day. I have been catching alot of flak since I started this, both here and at work. One guy at work seemed seemed like he thought I was retarded or bumped my head when I pulled my subs. "Man, how are you gonna listen to your music?" He asked. Others say its ugly. I have never cared about the looks of my car. Id rather have it for go then show. If I ever get a day off from work(have to work this weekend) I wanna get at the tar and clean up(and out) some old wiring. *


You probably don't need to go *THAT* far... unless you're wanting to make it a dedicated track whore. I was happy with just removing the sub, backseat, and misc crap out of the trunk/backseat. Just all that stuff alone has got to be between 125-150 pounds. I didn't go crazy or throw things out for 'just in case' The backseat, like I said, will go back in at the end of this summer after all the track events. I'm getting AWEFUL squealing from the Motivational rear plate. I'm getting the Shigspeed so that'll take care of it (from what others tell me) but I still want to dampen some of the sound especially from the exhaust (it gets loud in the car at WOT without the backseat) I want to go so far as to re-install the rear plastic trim piece over the wheelwells where the rollbar lands at the rear wheelwell. I need to cut a hole in it. I want this car as stock *LOOKING* as possible. I'm already at a disadvantage with the rollbar and gopher shooter exhaust  Weight reduction (as you and I have found) is fun. My personal opinion after a year or so is that I'd like to be able to install and remove it at my will.

And yes, others call me crazy too. But that's nothing new or related to removing the backseat


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

"But that's nothing new or related to removing the backseat" 
That makes me wonder.....


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

Hey everyone! Listen...this data I accumlated proves the importance of weight reduction. Hey check this out...
Notice the weight of the 200sx, vs the Mustangs


1.)252hp 1996 200sx GA16DET (this is the project car)
Curb Weight: 200sx = 2500lbs
Quarter Mile: 13.3 seconds!!!

2.) 260hp 2003 Mustang GT Coupe (stock)
Curb Weight: Mustang GT Coupe = 3241lbs
Quarter Mile: 14.3 seconds

3.) 305hp 2003 Ford Mustang V8 Mach1 4.6L (stock)
Curb Weight: Mach1 = 3241lbs
Quarter Mile: 13.6 seconds!!

4.) 333hp 2003 BMW M3 Coupe (stock)
Curb Weight: BMW = 3415lbs
Quarter Mile: 13.4 seconds!!

That 1.6 liter engine is able to defeat a V8 mustang in the quarter mile!!!! HAHAHHHAHHA...NOW LOOKS WHOSE TRASH TALKING! And if you don't believe me, just look at those stats! COME ON PEOPLE Or you can check it out yourself........Just prove it to yourself. An I4 vs a V8! We kick a$$! Now take your girl for a drive in your sentra and go defeat those stock mustangs! Let them drag their heavy butts behind!

If you don't believe me, plug in those numbers into a quarter mile calculator. Always remember though that these numbers are always estimates, and never perfect. Your weight also is a factor...and how old the engine is...But still its worth a few bragging rights!
I got the horsepower & weight for the mustangs from www.car.com I got the weight for the 200sx at www.car.com, the hp from www.sentra.net 

The Quarter Mile I calculated from http://www.mrccfl.com/quartermile.html

This goes to show you, the importance of weight on the power of a car....


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

*Track Event*

For those interested...

http://www.nissanforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22367


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

Just remember that most people who race their Mustangs do not own stock cars.Most stock Mustang owners don't really know how to drive either.Even starting with the cheapest B14 you can find(around ,say $2500) and then adding all the mods to make it go 13.3,you are still looking at a nearly $10k Sentra!With that kind of money and a used $2500 87-93 mass air 5.0/5spd Mustang , I can go 11's or 12's-on the stock short block and factory TRW forged pistons(93's are hyperutectic).Plus, these Mustangs weigh around 2500lbs stripped (base coupe with no air,PS,PB,or power anything-I knew someone with just such a street car),and have 225hp stock.300 hp is only $1000 away and 450hp another $3k with a centrifugal blower.Not knocking imports here, but just giving a little perspective and a more realistic point of comparison-dollar for dollar.Remember that no new car can compare with a correctly modified,owner built used car dollar for dollar,performance figure for performance figure.


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

himilefrontier said:


> *13.3,you are still looking at a nearly $10k Sentra!
> <snip>
> With that kind of money and a used $2500 87-93 mass air 5.0/5spd Mustang , I can go 11's or 12's-on the stock *


Agreed....

But it's still a FORD


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

And a Sentra's still FWD!The BEST thing about a Nissan compared to most Fords is the superior build quality and better engines. My point sorta is that if you strip all the interior , the build quality isn't important anymore.Plus, the 5.0 Ford is a very durable engine capable of excellent bang for the buck performance.I am not trying to bash Nissan here:I have owned 3 Nissans and 0 Fords,so it's not like I am a fan of Fords.I was just pointing out that the comparison made in a earlier post wasn't really fair.I happen to believe that both sides of the import vs domestic argument are incredibly ignorant of the benefits of the other side, and love to try and make people think rather than just go for the gut reaction.Oops! Sorry. I guess this post is starting to ramble a bit.


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

himilefrontier said:


> *My point sorta is that if you strip all the interior , the build quality isn't important anymore.Plus, the 5.0 Ford is a very durable engine capable of excellent bang for the buck
> <snip>
> I am not trying to bash Nissan here
> <snip>
> I happen to believe that both sides of the import vs domestic argument are incredibly ignorant of the benefits of the other side, *


Yes, agreed... I guess I wasn't clear that I was busting your chops. I've seen some fast Mustangs both on the street and at the track (this past weekend I was actually eyeing up an older Mustang paddocked next to me... nice car!)

Second point... I know that. And, likewise, I'm not trying to say Nissan is the best out there either... by no means 

Thirdly, you're very correct there. And I've met many, many nice Mustang owners at the track as well. Many have come up to me to see where the turbo is under the hood and then scratch their head when they don't find one. They then realize 'holy crap, that car must be pretty quick and handle well' On the flip side, I've been passed by Mustangs and go 'how'd he do that?!' I have an incredible respect for Mustangs and their owners.


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## polishhotdawg (May 24, 2002)

unish your quarter mile calculators arent accurate. even if a stang and a nissan had the same horse power im willing to bet an arm and a leg that the mustang has enough frickin torque to pull the extra weight and a nissan behind it. hp isnt everything and it certainly isnt everything for the 1/4 mile. just for the record 87-93 5.0's come stock packing 300lbs of torque


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

polishhotdawg said:


> *unish your quarter mile calculators arent accurate. even if a stang and a nissan had the same horse power im willing to bet an arm and a leg that the mustang has enough frickin torque to pull the extra weight and a nissan behind it. hp isnt everything and it certainly isnt everything for the 1/4 mile. just for the record 87-93 5.0's come stock packing 300lbs of torque *


Lol...I thougt I stated that these are only estimates. Hey..can't a man dream at least, without being hated on?

Anyways..even if it is a stang. What did those stang drivers have to pay for their cars? Like 20gs to get it?
We only had to pay like 13gs for ours. add another 10g to ours and we get 23..enough to match a stang...
The cobra is a different story, but I'm sure if we had the right mods, we'd be pumping the same...


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Hijackers ;( LOL

Just for that, Im gonna do more today.  
I have respect for Mustangs, Vettes, you name it. Im wont ever bash em. I know what they are capable of. My problem is that when I get something with a motor and wheels I have to work on it. Its a sickness that I have and there is no cure. Thats what makes it worth it to me to do this kind of stuff to a GA powered Sentra. Im like a crack addict who needs to get a fix. 

Future plans to include an domestic piece of iron. Let me tell ya It wont be build like most. I want to have a marrige of style(muscle car?) and tech(twin turbo/ stand-alone engine management?). To me what would be cooler than an old muscle car with a high-tech drivetrain? The only thing I can thing of is a Datsun 510 done the same way. 

Now leave this domestic vs. compact crap outta my weight reduction post. j/k


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## polishhotdawg (May 24, 2002)

UNISH25 said:


> *Lol...I thougt I stated that these are only estimates. Hey..can't a man dream at least, without being hated on?
> 
> Anyways..even if it is a stang. What did those stang drivers have to pay for their cars? Like 20gs to get it?
> We only had to pay like 13gs for ours. add another 10g to ours and we get 23..enough to match a stang...
> The cobra is a different story, but I'm sure if we had the right mods, we'd be pumping the same... *


dude i aint hatin at all. im just sayin that those stangs would beat the sentra regardless or weight because the amount of torque they got makes up for it. and about what you said about money factor you are right if you are talking about buying a car brand new but used mustangs, specifically 80's stangs can be found for the price of a used sentra or pretty close to it. 

oh and thats no hatin im just simply stating my oppionions/facts


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## shmuck90 (Oct 28, 2002)

nice i like what u did but man it looks ugly now lol jk
Hey pat after you installed the teins how long did u wait till u started trying ur suspension becuz u know u have to wait a while for them to break in (i got my tein springs and agxs installed a couple of days ago)?
thanks


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

shmuck90 said:


> *wait till u started trying ur suspension becuz u know u have to wait a while for them to break in (i got my tein springs and agxs installed a couple of days ago)?
> thanks *


Break in suspension?!? You're kidding, right?


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

polishhotdawg said:


> *dude i aint hatin at all. im just sayin that those stangs would beat the sentra regardless or weight because the amount of torque they got makes up for it. and about what you said about money factor you are right if you are talking about buying a car brand new but used mustangs, specifically 80's stangs can be found for the price of a used sentra or pretty close to it.
> 
> oh and thats no hatin im just simply stating my oppionions/facts *


Remember that weight is only one part of the equation.If you have a lightweight car, you do not need lots of low end torque to go fast.Making a quick drag car(or street car, etc)requires the right combination of the different variables to go fast.Also, new 87 5.0 5 spd Mustangs started out at $8990-not $20k.This is why they are so popular and sold well.
Don't also make the mistake of thinking a $13k Sentra is faster than a $50k BMW M3 just because it won a race.Because, in order to do that, the Sentra would require very expensive mods and cost closer to the M3 than a stock Sentra if you try to aim for M3 type performance numbers and still remain legal(so it really isn't a $13k Sentra anymore, is it?).Supertuner TV had just such a car.A BMW 323 with $50 k in mods to the chassis and drivetrain.They said it was the "cheapest" model and even after a full Dinan(BMW tuner company) package only made 225 hp.A stock M3 has 340hp.Do the math,which one is cheaper?Is the 323 still "just a $25k car"?Of course not! It is a $75k car that has as much horsepower as a 330ci that costs $40k new.A nice car, yes,but would you pay $75k for it?

Anyhow,sorry for hijacking this thread,but I can't stand the BS that some people seem to cling to.


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## shmuck90 (Oct 28, 2002)

I meant it is not good to take drive aggressively right after installing springs+shocks+struts and im wondering for how long i have to be careful?


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

shmuck90 said:


> *I meant it is not good to take drive aggressively right after installing springs+shocks+struts and im wondering for how long i have to be careful? *


There is no need. Only thing I'd suggest is getting an alignment before 'testing' the suspension. After the alignment, it's ok to thrash the car as much as you want as soon as you want. No such thing as a 'break-in period' for suspension


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## shmuck90 (Oct 28, 2002)

I read the Tein manual and it says "Upon installation, avoid rough handling and drive slowly."
Yeh I immediately did a 4-wheel computerzed alignment right after installation, toe was way out.


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

shmuck90 said:


> *I read the Tein manual and it says "Upon installation, avoid rough handling and drive slowly."
> Yeh I immediately did a 4-wheel computerzed alignment right after installation, toe was way out. *


They're full of crap! Only if it takes the valving a few miles to get used to having pressure on it? But I highly doubt that. They're feeding you a line probably to protect their own liability so they don't get sued


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## shmuck90 (Oct 28, 2002)

seriously


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## lovemysan (Jan 31, 2003)

90 mustang coupe 2900lbs
225hp 300lbs of torque stock. 225hp is a considered by most to be conservative besides how many "stock" stangs have you seen.

302 is known for its flat power curve. Peak power doesn't win races. Average power wins races, even more so on race track than the strip.

The late model mustang is capable ot 13.7s to 13.9s on factory rubber when driven properly. Or try you hand with a SS camaro sub 13s on factory rubber. Source "muscle mustang and fast ford"

Beefs with the stang. Piece of junk, nothing works, brakes, breaks alot, weak trans The list goes on and on.

Same with the camaro. 

Likes with nissan bullet proof, bullet proof, great gas mileage, fun, fun the list could go on and on. 

Would I spend the money on the turbo GA probably not. I already have the stang. But its for sale. 

Long live the SAN


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

Nissan's have weak trannies too(at least the Sentra's do) that break when serious power is put through them.I agree with the low quality of many things on the Mustangs(but still better than comparable year F bodies).However,they do have a reasonably strong drivetrain-especially the shortblock and 8.8 rearend.The worst thing I have known to happen is the floor will tear or break free of the rocker panels if the car is abused or driven by a heavy driver.They have many flaws, but are still thousands cheaper to build into a fast car than a Nissan is to get to a comparable performance level.I'm not saying that you should build any particular type of car here, just merely pointing out some facts. By the way, I knew of a Mustang 5.0/5spd coupe that really did only weigh 2600lbs.It was a street car too and mostly stock, but it ran low 13's with stock heads, cam and intake.

My likes with my Nissan Frontier:INDESTRUCTABLE!! I drive it like a rally car all day long and have rarely experienced a parts failure and only once had to have it towed home.In 200 thousand miles of pizza delivery.If my "new" Sentra is half as good as my truck has been I'll be happy.Dislikes:can't really fault it for anything except that it can't do things it wasn't designed to do in the first place(like pull corners).


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## lovemysan (Jan 31, 2003)

himile 

I read of a guy who had a pre 87 car. He spent $2000 including the price of the car to run in the true street class. he ran low 11s and I think he dipped into the tens. 

Yes, I agree many parts of the mustang are extremely tough. But even if they break they are cheap to repair. A full rebuild kit containing 10 to 1 forged pistons is only $369 from summit. A healthy stock shortblock can make serious horsepower upwards of 500. 

As of now the synchros are fried in my second gear. I have seen many bad stang t-5s Theyr'e designed for 245lbs of torque. It is generally the same trans found in 5sp S10s. A 302 has such potential that the trans will break when not respected.


I always thought the trans was tough in my truck, The trans in the SER we are gentle with. Right now we're running redline MT90 but we're going to change to shockproof heavyweight thats what I read that kojima uses


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

lovemysan said:


> *Right now we're running redline MT90 but we're going to change to shockproof heavyweight thats what I read that kojima uses *


Oh God... don't just change because 'that's what kojima uses' Mike is not the be-all end-all of SE-Rs. I'm good friends with Mike and respect his opinion and all but he'll agree with me that you should form your own opinion based on opinions of others - not just 'because so-and-so does it' or 'so-and-so says...'

As for my opinion (take it for what it's worth) I know people who use shockproof and like it. It seems, however, that it's only really necessary in a turbo (hard to tell what kind of car you drive since nothing's listed) putting down more HP than a built NA. In my built NA, I use NEO and it works great. Much better than stock. 

But PLEASE... don't just do something because someone else is doing it. Make an educated guess for yourself, please!


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

I run Mobil 1 in my Frontier trans and haven't had any problems with it yet.Remember too that the T5 in a 4 cyl S10 is different than a 5.0's "World Class" T5.The blocking rings are different ,the bearings are different and the gear ratios are different in a 4 cyl application.Best thing about a T5 is that a Tremec TKO is a reasonably priced bolt in alternative to a rebuilt T5.By the way, a friend of mine had a T5 in his 351w powered 81 Mustang drag car that ran 10's and pulled the wheels on launch!


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

New pics!


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Hmm,
Time for soem carbon fibre seats. That should set you back about a few grand.

Seth


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Im already flossing with a little CF, thats what I made my 3 gauge pod out of.


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## speedraser153 (Apr 26, 2003)

I would like to see pic's of your gauges 

Jeff


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## lovemysan (Jan 31, 2003)

kierlaven, the car is a an 91 SER w/ACT clutch and poly motor mounts. The reasons that we're going to the shockproof is, I already have some in the shop, Its helps prevent sheared gears, the nissan racing teams us it, and I decided to use it long before i read that kojima uses it. BTW what is Neo? I looked at Motul, royal purple, and redline before I decided. 

Himile, I said generally the same(I was referring to V6apps).
I'll be rebuilding mine soon, I'm going to do some more research before I get started tho. Hey I can tell you how to break a ka24e. In third gear go to 90ish mph. Shift extremely hard into second. Make sure to keep your right foot planted.

Bent valves stink


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## kieranlavin (May 6, 2002)

lovemysan said:


> *BTW what is Neo? I looked at Motul, royal purple, and redline before I decided. *


http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/

It's just another brand. The only ones I knew about when I was purchasing fluid were neo and motul and a friend had NEO and liked it. He swayed my decision. I've been very happy with it though so I'll stick with it


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