# Timing Chain Noise



## big_aluminum_wing (Nov 12, 2004)

I have a '97 Altima SE with 138k. About 6 months ago it developed an odd scraping / grinding noise coming from the timing chain side of the engine. I took it to a mechanic, and the guy said that the chain was nothing to worry about since "those things never, ever go bad." His official diagnosis was "belt noise." I'm not sure that I buy that answer. It doesn't sound like any belt noise that I've ever heard. What I'm wondering, I guess, is the guy right? How rare is it that a timing chain would break? I know that it's a bad deal if the thing would break. Maybe it isn't the timing chain? 
The noise is only present at warm idle, it goes away under throttle, either because of the higher revs or maybe I just can't hear it because the motor is louder....
Any thoughts would be appreciated. 
Thanks!

So, yeah - this is a lot like another thread just down the list...let's hear it for the new guy..... I am a :dumbass:


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

thats why it never hurts to search.  but yeah, your mechanic is mostly right. chains hardly ever break, but that doesnt mean that they dont EVER. ive seen about 3-4 chains break. they usually will last the life of the engine. i cant remember if the chain guides were removed in 97 yet, but if you want to take off your valve cover and check, you can tell if theyve been removed or not. get a haynes manual, if you dont own one already, and go thru the procedure of replacing the timing chain. youre not actually going to follow all the steps, just the ones that say to remove the UPPER timing chain guide. you can safely remove it and discard it. nissan quit using them totally after a certain year.


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## SPEEDO (Jun 9, 2003)

96 was the last year they used the upper guides, maybe a stretched chain or a sticky tensioner, between the 2, I would lean towards the sticky tensioner, it may have some wear grooves in it.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

SPEEDO said:


> 96 was the last year they used the upper guides, maybe a stretched chain or a sticky tensioner, between the 2, I would lean towards the sticky tensioner, it may have some wear grooves in it.


the tensioner oil hole may also be plugged from infrequent oil changes. this is also a frequent problem with our altimas.


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## SPEEDO (Jun 9, 2003)

you are correct about that too!


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## Figment (Nov 20, 2004)

Hello, 
This is my first post to this forum. When I saw the title to this thread, I just had to post, and ask a couple of questions.
Just yesterday we paid $1,231.94, $825.00 labor charge, to replace "worn timing chain guide, tensioners and seals. 
Due to "excessive noise from the timing chain" per the assessment of the Nissan dealer's service deparment.
It is a Nissan Altima GXE with 96,000 miles on it. The manual recommends replacement at 100,000 miles.
My question, after reading this thread, would the mechanic have checked it out to see if it were plugged up due to infrequent oil changes prior to recommending this expensive work? I am hoping so. Your comments are welcome. Oh, I should mention that the care was only brought it to have the windshield wiper repaired, it needed a left wiper link.
Thanks.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

damn... thats a lot of money for them to not have replaced the chain itself... as far as replacing it at 100k, do you mean the chain or the tensioner? the chain itself doesnt have an interval. the mechanic should have checked the tensioner to see if it was plugged, but in my experience, they dont do repairs, they only do replacements. did you authorize the additional work that was done? what year altima is it?


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## Figment (Nov 20, 2004)

Hi,
As you might have guessed, I really am totally ignorant about this subject. It is my son's car, who is away at college.
This is a description of the parts replaced from the bill:
1- Seal-O Ring, 1- Guide-Chain, Sla, 1- Tensioner Chain, 1- Guide Chain Ten, Gasket Silicone, Seal-Oil, Cranks
When the servicep person called for authororization of the work, I thought he said he was replacing the timing chain also, but a closer look at the invoice states: Replaced worn timing chain guides, tensioners and seals.
This is a 97 Altima GXE.
From the description of the parts used, does it look like they replaced the chain? As I stated, I really don't know the lingo of auto repair. It looks like some of the descriptions are abbreviations. I tried calling the service department but they are closed until Monday.
Thanks.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

dude... thats way too much for what they are quoting you as far as parts go. your 97 has no upper chain guide, although the side guide may still be in place. however, i cant imagine a guide in the world costing that much money. even the tensioner isnt a high dollar part. heres my advice. ask for a detailed description of that invoice, ask to see the old parts. they HAVE to give you them. then ask to see new ones to compare them to. at this point, im convinced that someone is being shady at that dealer. also, if you werent told EXACTLY what you were authorizing work for, they cant legally charge you for anything other than what was outlined to you on the phone. there are laws protecting you from that. something stinks here, you need to go and check them out.


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## pete_connor (Dec 3, 2004)

*Timing Chain*

Yep Dealer said I had to replace mine by January, it is making a knocking noise as well....but...
I have a 96 Altima with 165K, replaced distributor but that about it...should I just keep going until the thing quits and make sure my triple A is paid up? I didn't see anything in the dealer's manual on when the chain should be changed since it is internal.


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## SPEEDO (Jun 9, 2003)

pete_connor said:


> Yep Dealer said I had to replace mine by January, it is making a knocking noise as well....but...
> I have a 96 Altima with 165K, replaced distributor but that about it...should I just keep going until the thing quits and make sure my triple A is paid up? I didn't see anything in the dealer's manual on when the chain should be changed since it is internal.


Being a 96 the noise maybe the upper guide (pull it out & throw it away) the longer you wait... the more $$ it usually cost you


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

ive known guys that have pulled out chains with over 200k miles and measured them against new chains and couldnt tell the difference. i honestly dont think they stretch much at all.


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## SUPER (Dec 28, 2004)

SPEEDO said:


> Being a 96 the noise maybe the upper guide (pull it out & throw it away) the longer you wait... the more $$ it usually cost you



Quick Question.How easy is it to pull the upper giude out,Will reudce any engine noise.Mine 96 Altime makes this high piched noise like the chain is grinding on something.................


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

just take the valve cover off and remove it. you dont even have to reinstall the bolts. perfect time to replace your valve cover gasket and spark plug tube seals too.


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## SUPER (Dec 28, 2004)

AsleepAltima said:


> just take the valve cover off and remove it. you dont even have to reinstall the bolts. perfect time to replace your valve cover gasket and spark plug tube seals too.


 I have the Hyanes book,I looked a pic of the valve cover removed.Is the Upper giude that metal piece on the right covering the chain.?


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

that be the one.


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

The new Nissan replacements do not have a upper chain guide...
The chain does stretch a small amount but mostly the guide and tensioners wear thus they are not able to control the chain movement.

Troy


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## SUPER (Dec 28, 2004)

would that removing the guide help reduce some of the noise coming from the chain?or should I remove it just for sakes......\

Thans for all the replies,great site and members :thumbup:


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## Neesan (Dec 31, 2004)

I ripped mine out, it didnt show any sign of wear. And the damn thing still makes nasty sounds (156k might have something to do with it though).


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

check your tensioner to see if its clogged with old oil.


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## ucdechem (Dec 20, 2005)

I just found this thread, but I'm having the same problem (I have a 96 200sx SE, with 156K miles). I've taken off my valve cover and ther upper guide is already gone. 

How can I check to see if the tensioner is plugged with oil? The tensioner seems pretty hard to reach, is that possible without taking off the timing chain cover?


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## Lzer0st (Sep 9, 2005)

well this sucks i wish i woulda known bhout this earlier, my timing chain was messed up i think it mightve been the upper guide now that i think about it...but my mechanic its going to cost way to much to replace it..so he hooked me up with another motor for 1500 including installation....


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## Neesan (Dec 31, 2004)

ucdechem said:


> I just found this thread, but I'm having the same problem (I have a 96 200sx SE, with 156K miles). I've taken off my valve cover and ther upper guide is already gone.
> 
> How can I check to see if the tensioner is plugged with oil? The tensioner seems pretty hard to reach, is that possible without taking off the timing chain cover?


Way to bump an old ass thread, ecspecially one I was a part of. Im pretty sure you have to take the upper timing cover off to get one out also. When I posted in this thread 3 years ago Im pretty sure I only took the one accessible with the valve cover off and thats why it still made noise. 

But a year ago when I fixed my o-ring behind the lower timing cover I almost posotive I pulled another guide when I had my upper cover off. You could search real quick and get a 100% answer, my altima is my DD that never breaks, Im always on DSM forums these days. ANYWAYS, when I took out the other guide all the noise dissapeared like a magic trick.


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## Neesan (Dec 31, 2004)

ucdechem said:


> I just found this thread, but I'm having the same problem (I have a 96 200sx SE, with 156K miles). I've taken off my valve cover and ther upper guide is already gone.
> 
> How can I check to see if the tensioner is plugged with oil? The tensioner seems pretty hard to reach, is that possible without taking off the timing chain cover?


Way to bump an old ass thread, ecspecially one I was a part of. Im pretty sure you have to take the upper timing cover off to get one out also. When I posted in this thread 3 years ago Im pretty sure I only took the one accessible with the valve cover off and thats why it still made noise. 

But a year ago when I fixed my o-ring behind the lower timing cover Im almost posotive I pulled another guide when I had my upper cover off. You could search real quick and get a 100% answer, my altima is my DD that never breaks, Im always on DSM forums these days so Im a bit rusty on the KA24DE . ANYWAYS, when I took out the other guide all the noise dissapeared like a magic trick.


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## psk79 (Oct 12, 2007)

How do we see if the tensioner is clogged? The mechanic removed the valve cover and removed the upper guides. But the noise is still there. He says its coming form the lower timing chain.... Any ideas.. it weird that it does this noise only when accelerating and around 2200 rpm.. once it shifts to fourth gear there is no noise at all...Thanks for replies


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## psk79 (Oct 12, 2007)

psk79 said:


> How do we see if the tensioner is clogged? The mechanic removed the valve cover and removed the upper guides. But the noise is still there. He says its coming form the lower timing chain.... Any ideas.. it weird that it does this noise only when accelerating and around 2200 rpm.. once it shifts to fourth gear there is no noise at all...Thanks for replies



The other thing is that there is no noise at all under 2000 rpm and it also goes away when I accelerate harder....sounds like somebody said above,..


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## Altima SSS (Oct 10, 2007)

Is the chain tensioner operated by the oil pressure or spring pressure -- or both? Wonder if low oil pressure could be a factor?

Also, does the chain tensioner have any kind of ratchet mechanism on it, or does it just provide tension based on a constant spring pressure or oil pressure?


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## psk79 (Oct 12, 2007)

Altima SSS said:


> Is the chain tensioner operated by the oil pressure or spring pressure -- or both? Wonder if low oil pressure could be a factor?
> 
> Also, does the chain tensioner have any kind of ratchet mechanism on it, or does it just provide tension based on a constant spring pressure or oil pressure?


MY understanding from the forums is that it is based on the oil pressure.. They also said if the oil changes are infrequent the hole gets clogged... However, If the way to reach this tensioner is by opening hte lower timing chain cover, then it doesnt matter as tehy will charge about 6-7hrs of labor anyway for opening this...


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## I'm3rd (Dec 24, 2003)

Timing chains can and do sometimes break. My 94 Alty has not broken a chain and has over 180K miles on the clock, but a Mercury V8 engine in another of my cars did break a timing chain at 140K miles while running 70mph on the interstate. The Merc V8 is not an interference engine so no harm was done except for the broken chain which cost less than $300 to replace plus a towing charge, and I got the old water pump replaced at the same time for no extra labor charge since it had to be removed anyways to replace the chain. I don't think the Altima's 2.4L is an interference engine either but not real sure about that.


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## Altiman93 (Nov 14, 2006)

Ok.i removed the upper guide, and still makes the nosise. ive read threw everything here, and have not found an awnser(unless i did't read correctly), is the nosie bad? do i need to worry? will it mess up my engine? some one help me please!


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## psk79 (Oct 12, 2007)

Altiman93 said:


> Ok.i removed the upper guide, and still makes the nosise. ive read threw everything here, and have not found an awnser(unless i did't read correctly), is the nosie bad? do i need to worry? will it mess up my engine? some one help me please!


Same problem with me.. the mechanic said he took offf the valve cover and was able to reach teh upper guide (only one) and remvoed it. but he doesnt see that chain even touches it..so he diesnt think that the cause. However, the lower timing chain is still there.. as i said before getting to the lower timingchain is a sob...takes upto 6hrs of labor....dont know what to do...  

But what I dont understand is why in thehello does it maek the noise at 2000rpm and not below and not if you accelerate harder....that makes me wonder if this is really the timing chain...

Cmon NIssan experts...give yur opinions...


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## Altima SSS (Oct 10, 2007)

psk79 said:


> But what I dont understand is why in thehello does it maek the noise at 2000rpm and not below and not if you accelerate harder....that makes me wonder if this is really the timing chain...


It's possible the chain could "resonate" at a certain constant RPM with no real load on the engine.

Are you sure it's not the Alt/PS/WP belt's idler pulley? My engine makes some noises on the cam chain/belt side of the engine at certain RPMs, and I think it's the idler pulley and/or belt making the noise. I used a stethoscope on the idler mounting bolt, and it sounded like its bearing is getting dry and rough. If I rev the engine up some the noise will change and seem to go away at certain RPMs.


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## psk79 (Oct 12, 2007)

Altima SSS said:


> It's possible the chain could "resonate" at a certain constant RPM with no real load on the engine.
> 
> Are you sure it's not the Alt/PS/WP belt's idler pulley? My engine makes some noises on the cam chain/belt side of the engine at certain RPMs, and I think it's the idler pulley and/or belt making the noise. I used a stethoscope on the idler mounting bolt, and it sounded like its bearing is getting dry and rough. If I rev the engine up some the noise will change and seem to go away at certain RPMs.


I found this.. wondering if this is the case...as the guy who sold me the car got a new central pipe assy and muffler replaced....
Nissan Altima Loud Growling Sound

I will ask the mechanic to take a look at this next week...


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## Altima SSS (Oct 10, 2007)

psk79 said:


> I found this.. wondering if this is the case...as the guy who sold me the car got a new central pipe assy and muffler replaced....
> Nissan Altima Loud Growling Sound
> 
> I will ask the mechanic to take a look at this next week...


If you are hearing this noise from inside the car while driving then I'd say it could be something else. I doubt you would hear engine noises inside the car while driving unless they were very loud, which would mean the engine was about to destroy itself.

I found this interesting thread too ... about cam chain tensioner issues.
Oil Change Destroys Nissan Altima??


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## Altiman93 (Nov 14, 2006)

Its funny, because mine only makes the noise when its warmed up, and its idle'ing when i give it just a little bit of gas it stops, but when it idles again, the noise comes back? I heard that (dont know if its true or not) that the noise is normal. True??? i heard that all timing chains on the alty's make that noise. but damn does it suck not knowing what it is 




psk79 said:


> Same problem with me.. the mechanic said he took offf the valve cover and was able to reach teh upper guide (only one) and remvoed it. but he doesnt see that chain even touches it..so he diesnt think that the cause. However, the lower timing chain is still there.. as i said before getting to the lower timingchain is a sob...takes upto 6hrs of labor....dont know what to do...
> 
> But what I dont understand is why in thehello does it maek the noise at 2000rpm and not below and not if you accelerate harder....that makes me wonder if this is really the timing chain...
> 
> Cmon NIssan experts...give yur opinions...


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## Yahnozha (May 8, 2003)

http://www.nissanforums.com/u13-1993-1997-altima/138939-altima-timing-chain-noise-fix.html


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

thank you for searching but please, dont revive a 3 yr old thread to ask a question.


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