# Grinding Brakes - time to replace rotors and pads?



## hawaiibrew (Sep 14, 2005)

My Nissan Frontier 4 DR V6 2wd recently developed a very nasty grinding noise when braking.

I'm guessing that the brake pads are worn down to nothing.

So I'm going to replace the rotors and the pads. Hopefully the Calipers are not damaged and don't need to be replaced as well.

Does anyone know where the cheapest place to get the rotors and pads online is?

Anyone done this repair lately, is it pretty straightforward? 

What kind of disc brake system is it on the frontiers? Single Piston, dual piston?

Is it just the two bolt removal to get the caliper loose? ANything special on removing the pads?

Any help is appreciated.


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## jerryp58 (Jan 6, 2005)

hawaiibrew said:


> My Nissan Frontier 4 DR V6 2wd recently developed a very nasty grinding noise when braking.
> 
> I'm guessing that the brake pads are worn down to nothing.
> 
> ...


I think you can get rotors most anywhere (local auto parts, etc.). I think TireRack.com has the Brembos for the Frontier (plus some other brand of slotted rotors). Are you sure the rotors are bad? Do they look scored? Can they be machined? Or are you looking for a brake upgrade. I haven't done this, but I think the calipers have two bolts holding them on. Don't know the number of pistons (I'd be suprised if it's more than one).


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## hawaiibrew (Sep 14, 2005)

I felt the rotor through the wheel and I can feel the grooves on there....

rather replace it than machine it if it's bad.

Going to get the truck up on jackstand tonight and then I can get the wheel off a have a good look.

Never replaced disc brakes before - did drum a long time ago on my old chevy but that was 10 years ago.

Been reading on-line instructions seems pretty simple.

Just wondering if any Frontier owners discovered any tricks to make it easier.


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## MrFancypants (Nov 18, 2005)

If youve done drum brakes, disc brakes will be a cakewalk. I also dont recommend turning the front brakes. All theyll do is warp again. I havent had the Frontier brakes apart yet, but maintaining any disc brake is pretty much the same.

The calipers should come off with two bolts. It's a Nissan, so they are probably 19 mm. They go through the backside of the caliper (dogbone) and connect it to the wheel hub. Take both off and the caliper can be slid off the rotor. If you are just changing the pads and not the rotor, you can cheat by removing one slide pin/bolt and loosening the other and rotating the caliper open to access the pads. Since you want to replace the rotors, just remove the caliper.

Hang the caliper from the suspension. Dont let it hang by the brake line or you risk damaging the brake line.

Pull off the rotor and replace. Pop the pads out of the caliper. Force the brake piston back into the caliper using a big C-clamp or other appropriate tool. Install the new pads with anti-squeal if desired. Then slide the caliper back over the rotor and bolt the caliper back in place. If the new pads dont clear the rotor, take them out and push the piston in further then try again.

Make sure you dont get any grease or oil on the brake components, obviously. After youve changed out both sets of pads, it's a good idea to bleed the brakes and/or change the fluid. Then break the pads in correctly following the instructions from the manufacturer, and youre all set.

You can also get fancy and chamfer/cut the pads, paint your calipers, install steel braided brake lines, etc. while youre in there.


- Greg -


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## WoW (Jan 2, 2006)

There are two pistons per caliper on the 2001 Nissan Frontier Dessert Runner XE.

If any of the pistons stick open the pads will drag. This will chew up the pad and rotor. If it sticks open enough the brakes will burn and smoke. Are you seeing a lot of brake dust?


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## hawaiibrew (Sep 14, 2005)

I'm seeing a lot of brake dust on the wheels the last two weeks.

Last night the grinding really started...and it almost even felt like the brakes were'nt retracting all the way when I was on the way home at a couple of lights....when accelerating I could hear the grind for a second before they went loose for driving..

Is it possible the piston has failed on one of the calipers? Or is it just all the way out because the pads are totally gone?

Well guess I'll solve all my questions tonight when I get it apart.


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## hawaiibrew (Sep 14, 2005)

Okay got it all apart - two pistons on the caliper.

Front right side - outside pad was fine - inside pad was gone.

Outisde of rotor was slightly worn - inside is ridged and worn unevenly.

Going to replace the rotor and the pads.

Pads would have been super simple to replace - all you need to do is remove the caliper - two bolts - pads don't come out with the caliper - they sit in place on a fixed arm that wraps around the rotor. Each pad has a flat metal clip that fixes on to it.

They just slide out on either side. Would have been so simple 

The rotor has bolts that need to be removed - before you can get it off - the fixed arm for the brakes needs to be removed too....two very large bolts on the back hold it on. I have to go and buy a large socket set tomorrow.

There is a cap I think in the middle of the rotor on the outside- I can't tell if it needs to be removed before I can take the rotor off or if it's part of the rotor and the wheel bearrings are on the other side.

Once I remove the fixed arm I guess I'll have a better idea.


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## hawaiibrew (Sep 14, 2005)

Here's a pic of the rotor.

As you can see in the other pics - the caliper is removed and the pads are removed.

Now the big questions is - Do I need to remove that cap to be able to slide off the rotor?

I have to undo two bolts on the back to get that fixed brake assembly off before i can remove the rotor.


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## mitchell35758 (Oct 21, 2005)

hawaiibrew said:


> Here's a pic of the rotor.
> 
> As you can see in the other pics - the caliper is removed and the pads are removed.
> 
> ...


I haven't had the need to remove my rotors yet, but on my 88 toyota, I didn't have to remove that cap. If I am recalling right, the rotors just slide right off. I don't think it would be a bad idea to go ahead and remove the cap and check the bearing out and repack them with grease just for preventive maintenance though. Thats the way I use to go whenever I had to remove the rotors. Necessary? Honestly I don't know, but again I think it is a good idea for the truck and for peace of mind. Good luck


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## Snafu (Dec 17, 2005)

> The rotor has bolts that need to be removed - before you can get it off - the fixed arm for the brakes needs to be removed too....two very large bolts on the back hold it on. I have to go and buy a large socket set tomorrow.


In the pics I didn't see any bolts that need to be removed on the rotor.

I have not had to do a brake job (yet) on my frontier but I have seen two different designs for rotors. One is a one-piece design with an integrated rotor and hub assembly and with the other they are separate. It is an easier job with the two-piece design.

If the rotor can come off without the hub assembly then you shouldn't need to remove that cap. If not then it looks like you will have to pull the cap off to get at a nut that holds the rotor/hub to the spindle (there are a pair of bearings in there). If you have to pull the rotor/hub off then it is a little more complicated.

Do you have a pic of the new rotors?

One thing you should do while the caliper is off, is check the sliders and lube them. 

One last tip - after you are done and before you move the truck, start the truck and pump the brakes a few times until the feel firm. This ensures that the calipers have pushed the new pads into the rotor. I forgot once and the calipers would not grab with the first pump and I nearly drove the truck into my other car.


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

hawaiibrew said:


> Here's a pic of the rotor.
> 
> As you can see in the other pics - the caliper is removed and the pads are removed.
> 
> Now the big questions is - Do I need to remove that cap to be able to slide off the rotor?...


Your 2wd setup looks very much like my 4wd, except without the 4wd center hub.

Yes, you will need to remove the cap - - - and more. Behind the cap will be the lock-nut that holds the hub and rotor assembly on the spindle (tapered shaft). The wheel bearings are also in there. Once you remove the lock-nut (this may be a castle nut with a coder pin), the hub assembly will slide off of the spindle together with the wheel bearings. You may need to get a special socket for the lock-nut. Your local parts store will often lend these out for free. The outer wheel bearing will be loose and fall out, while the inner wheel bearing will be held in place by the grease seal on the back of the hub. Once the hub/rotor assembly is off, the rotor is unbolted from the hub from behind. The two peices are now separated.

Once you have the new rotors bolted to the hubs, you'll reinstall everything. However, you should probably take the time to repack the wheel bearings with grease (at the least). You might also want to remove the rear grease seal to remove the inner wheel bearing - to clean and repack it properly. Replacing the grease seal (not too expensive) with a new one is also not a bad idea, especially if it got damaged during removal.

Once you put it all back together, you should properly torque, or "preload". the wheel bearings. This is done by first tightening down the lock nut fairly snug, while turning or spinning the wheel back and forth. This works the grease into the bearings. Now back the nut off (making sure the outer wheel bearing stays in place - it should), and retighten the lock nut just enough to hold everything in place, and so that the wheel spins relatively easily - too tight and the bearings will overheat while driving - too loose and the bearings will wear prematurely. Now replace the coder pin.

I might suggest that you pick up a Haynes repair manual for your vehicle, if you don't already have one. This whole procedure would be outlined pretty well.

Please don't let this description scare you, it's really not that tough. If you're not afraid to get a little dirty, it can actually be fun... :thumbup:


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## hawaiibrew (Sep 14, 2005)

Okay thanks for the good advice.

In the pics - I had already removed the bolts holding the rotors on.

I'm picking up the new rotors today so I should be able to get a better idea of how they should come off.

Okay..so the cap does need to come off first. Does it just need to be pryed off with a screwdriver?

When I figure it all out I'm going to take pictures of the left side as I do the job so I'll have a reference sheets for anyone who is interested.


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## MrFancypants (Nov 18, 2005)

Wow sorry about the bad advice on getting the rotor off. Sounds like a pain in the ass. Definitely change your pads sooner rather than later next time since rotors are a lot more work than expected.

Lubing the slide pins is a great idea too, though I think Nissan moved everything to fully sealed slide pins a few years ago.

Those axle caps can be tapped off with a screwdriver and hammer. Just be careful not to pierce it they are usually pretty thin.



- Greg -


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## 02 4X4 (Jun 4, 2005)

the slide pins that the bolts that hold the caliper on make sure they move freely they r supposed to float so that the caliper can move with pad wear


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

hawaiibrew said:


> ...In the pics - I had already removed the bolts holding the rotors on....


Oops - I missed that :loser: Oh well, the rest should be close to the way I described it.



> ...so the cap does need to come off first. Does it just need to be pryed off with a screwdriver?


Yes, as Greg mentioned, a screwdriver and a hammer should do the trick. There is actually a special tool for this, but if your careful, the screwdriver will work fine. Try and use a small, sharp flat screwdriver and insert it between the cap and the hub. The cap should have a bit of a "shoulder" on it. Here, because of the shoulder, the cap material is typically a little stronger - less likely to be damaged. Denting the cap is also not a big deal, other than aesthetic. It can easily be bagged out from inside to straighten it.

Have fun...


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## WoW (Jan 2, 2006)

Pretty much what Zilverado said. On mine, that nut that holds the rotor on was balck in color, flat and had a hole on the left and right. I put a screwdriver in the left hole and tapped downward on the handle of the screwdriver with a hammer. It only took a few firm taps and the nut was loose. I spun it off from there using the screwdriver as a handle.

If Im remembering right, I had to use my finger to to get the wheel bearing out. While it was out I wiped off the old grease, not cleaned the whole bearing, just wiped it off. Then I got a big handfull of bearing grease and and kinda kneaded into the bearing. I only took off and only saw the one bearing per side... I think.

When you compress the brake caliper pistons, I used a C clamp, the calipers should slide right off. Both pistons should be at the same level. Once you get the new brake pads on correctly the calipers should slide back on easily. If the calipers dont come off easy, if the pistons are not the same level or if the calipers dont slide back on easily, you may have sticking pistons. 

The badly worn pad, is it evenly worn or does one end show much more wear than the other? Uneven pad wear can mean bad calipers. After the pads are changed and youve driven a while you shouldnt see much if any brake dust. if your whell is getting coated with dust again, it may be bad calipers.

If it is bad calipers, sorry man, I cant help. Ive only opened a brake system once ( changed booster resavoir and calipers on a Chevy Cheyenne ) and had a mutha of a time getting the brakes bled right. I had some dangerously squishy brakes till I got it right. Its doable at home, just wasnt easy for me.

If its just pads and rotors, you can do eet :thumbup:


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

WoW said:


> ...If Im remembering right, I had to use my finger to to get the wheel bearing out. While it was out I wiped off the old grease, not cleaned the whole bearing, just wiped it off. Then I got a big handfull of bearing grease and and kinda kneaded into the bearing. I only took off and only saw the one bearing per side... I think....


The bearing you removed is called the "outer" wheel bearing. There will be a second bearing, the "inner" wheel bearing on the inside (or back side) of the hub. This bearing does not fall out because the grease seal on the back of the hub does not allow this to happen, without removing the seal.

You'll see it next time...


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## WoW (Jan 2, 2006)

Could I mess up anything by not taking out, regreasing and reinstalling that second bearing? I dont recall seeing it in my Haynes manual. I believe its there like you say though. I did this some 40,000 miles ago and all is well. No weird tire wear or pulling. Brakes are fine.

Thanks.


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## jerryp58 (Jan 6, 2005)

WoW said:


> Could I mess up anything by not taking out, regreasing and reinstalling that second bearing? I dont recall seeing it in my Haynes manual. I believe its there like you say though. I did this some 40,000 miles ago and all is well. No weird tire wear or pulling. Brakes are fine.Thanks.


I would think as long as you didn't get any dirt/contaminants in them and the seals weren't leaking and you don't submerge them; you'd be fine. I'll have to check the service manual and see if there's a service time/mileage on them.


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## jerryp58 (Jan 6, 2005)

hawaiibrew said:


> Okay thanks for the good advice.
> 
> In the pics - I had already removed the bolts holding the rotors on.
> 
> ...


I was suprised that the service manual didn't say anything about loc-tite on the caliper bolts (at least I didn't notice anything). I was also suprised to see a different torque setting for the 4-cyl versus the 6-cyl (the 6-cyl had a higher torque setting; which I guess makes sense).

You may try channel locks on the cap, but prying with a screw-driver should work fine. I wouldn't think they'd be in there that tight.

You may want to put a thin coat of grease on the spindle or the rear bearing seal so you don't damage the seal when you slide it back on.


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## hawaiibrew (Sep 14, 2005)

I got the Haynes Manual today - it's excellent.

Okay - so I did things a little in reverse - but here's the play by play for getting to the rotors and changing the wheel bearings while you're in there. 
I still have to finish the right one tonight..bit of work left to do.
I'll take pictures and document the left one when I do it tomorrow.

1) Remove the two caliper bolts
2) remove the brake pads
3) remove the brake arm that holds the pads (2 bolts)
4) remove the hub cap (little round cap)
5) remove cotter pin
6) lossen and remove spindle nut
7) remove outside bearing - rotor will slide off
8) unbolt rotor from hub assembly (I did this out of order, but no biggie)
9) on hub you have to remove grease seal to get to inside bearing, remove inside bearing.
10) I'm reaplcing the bearings and they come with new races (the little round tracks that they rotate on) and I was told it's best to replace the races when doing the bearings (don't use new bearings and old races..etc.).
To remove the races they have to be tapped out - the manual referred to a brass tool, but you can use a soft pipe. There will be races for both the inside and outside bearings.
11)use high temp bearing grease and grease up the races, and rep-install, replace the inner bearing(after greasing it extensively)..then replace the hub inner bearing grease seal(also grease).
12) Bolt your new rotor to the hub again..and silde the rotor/hub back on.
13) replace the outside bearing (after adding a lot of grease to it).
14)tighten down the spindle nut to pack the bearings (29ft lbs)- then loosen nut 1/8 turn and then hand tighten.
15) Install nut lock.
16) install cotter pin
17) put some grease inside hub cap and re-install
18)replace brake arm
19)slide in new brake pads
20)replace caliper
21)replace wheel

and you're all done. Was about $200-$250 in parts and $50 in extra tools I didn't have. But considering the full job would be $500-$700 at the dealer...I figure it's not too bad.

parts are also more expensive here in Hawaii so I'm sure you mainlanders can do it a lot cheaper.


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## Snafu (Dec 17, 2005)

Hey thanks for the step-by-step and pics. This should come in handy in the future.

Cheers


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## hawaiibrew (Sep 14, 2005)

Well I don't know how handy they weill be - as I got to the step to remove the spindle nut I found it wasn't a nut at all on my 2000 Frontier Club Cab...

it was a special piece that screws on over the axel - I'm going to try to use a screwdriver to get it off-don't know if that will work or not.


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## Snafu (Dec 17, 2005)

Definitely handy mate. Luck to you.

A screwdriver can work but may cause some scoring. I would use someting softer like brass or aluminum if you have some lying around.


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## Danmuzicman (Mar 15, 2006)

ok so after reading all this i have decided to have a place do this, on my old car it took like 30 minutes on each side to do the brakes. eh it will probaly be cheaper and less time for a place to do it.


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## Zilverado (Sep 25, 2002)

hawaiibrew said:


> Well I don't know how handy they weill be - as I got to the step to remove the spindle nut I found it wasn't a nut at all on my 2000 Frontier Club Cab...
> 
> it was a special piece that screws on over the axel - I'm going to try to use a screwdriver to get it off-don't know if that will work or not.


This "nut" is actually a threaded lock washer. Removing is is usually very easy, because it is simply snugged up (about 1 ft/lb) following wheel bearing pre-load. The washer has a set screw in the face that holds it in position. This needs to be removed prior to spinning it off.

Doing the bearing pre-load however will require placing approx. 75 ft/lbs on this washer. A special deep socket is used. Special tabs mate with the holes in the face of the washer and allow you to tighten the washer. Once tightened and the grease is distributed in the bearings, then the washer is backed off and just lightly "snugged" back up - and set screw replaced. You can possibly borrow this socket at your parts store, or if your the inventive type, you can maybe fab something up.

Give it a try.


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