# stanza engine?



## antdagreat (Nov 24, 2002)

can anyone tell what engine is in the stanza? about two weeks ago i went to some street races and there was a bone stock(from what i could see from the outside) stanza spanking a couple of cars. first a 240sx(i don't think he knew how to drive) then a CRX(modified) then it barely lost to a prelude. i didn't know what to do with myself when i saw this. i was just happy to be driving a nissan. i saw some stranzas in the junkyard and the engine didn't look to familier. what is that engine and does it have any potential?


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## SuperSentra4203 (Dec 17, 2002)

I'm pretty sure the Stanza has a SR20DE motor in it. This motor is the definition of potential


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2003)

Or the definition of perfection.


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## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

i dont thinks so guys. if im not mistaken, i believe the stanza came with a ca series in it , maybe a 1.6. dont quote me on that though.


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## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

as a matter of fact , the stanza had a ka24e 90-92, ca20e 87-89, and ca20i 82-86


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## RiceBox (Apr 30, 2002)

AVERAGE said:


> *as a matter of fact , the stanza had a ka24e 90-92, ca20e 87-89, and ca20i 82-86 *


This is correct. None of these engines has much potential or aftermarket support except for the KA. And that engine is the crappy 8 valve version. The racer must of had an engine swap of some kind


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## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

im slowly learning, just cant seem to crack the manual


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

RiceBox said:


> *This is correct. None of these engines has much potential or aftermarket support except for the KA. And that engine is the crappy 8 valve version. The racer must of had an engine swap of some kind *


 *****Hi guys, the further down this thread I went, the more accurate the info became. Just to touch it up a bit, all KA24E's were twelve valve, not eight. In the US, the early T11 Stanzas were CA20S [carbureted], laterT11's and all T12's were CA20E. There never were any CA20i's in Stanzas. Pickups and Vans yes, but not Stanzas. You just can't trust those Haynes manuals  They actually make some good stuff for a KA24E. Motorsport sells a twin side draft setup for them. Turbo kits are available, etc. I'll bet the Stanza Antdagreat saw was a U12 ['90-'92] with nitrous.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2003)

What the hell is a U12????? Sorry, just ignorant. Pictures would help!


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## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

u12 is the chassis code pab12 as to referring to our cars 87-90 sentras as the b12 chassis, okay?


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## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

so what motor did the earlier or 1st gen stanzas come with?


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## antdagreat (Nov 24, 2002)

i don't think he had nitrous it sounded like he had a cold air intake but he didn't even have a pipe on it. next time i go i'll try to catch up with him(not in my car). it was one of the newer stanzas.


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## sentrastud (May 3, 2002)

AVERAGE said:


> *u12 is the chassis code pab12 as to referring to our cars 87-90 sentras as the b12 chassis, okay? *


there is usually another letter in front of chassic code that describes the car too. 
for example my 89 4 Door Sedan is reffered to as a GB12 on the little plate under the hood.

-Nick


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

AVERAGE said:


> *so what motor did the earlier or 1st gen stanzas come with? *


 CA20S. I remember prepping the new [at the time] '82 Stanzas for dealer deliveries. I put A/C in some of them. They were really weird. The evaporator was under the hood, not in the dash!.........wierd cars. Wait a minute.....what are we doing talking about Stanzas in the B12 forums?  
Have any of you ever been to the Stanza section of this forum? We have just talked more about Stanzas here, than anyone ever has there!


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

> Have any of you ever been to the Stanza section of this forum? We have just talked more about Stanzas here, than anyone ever has there!


 That's funny and true as well. I guess we can discuss the stanza partially because most of the CA18DET motors come in the Stanza/bluebird in japan. Now the stanza is no P>O<S either. It will out-muscle most sentras all stock and some modded hondas and is a pretty good foundation for an SR20DET or a CA18DET swap. It's fwd came with a mechanical differential and nice torquey KA24E that is definitely "No slouch".


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## sentrastud (May 3, 2002)

boost_boy said:


> * is a pretty good foundation for an SR20DET or a CA18DET swap. *


i dunno about that, i drove my friends before she wrapped it around a tree. The chassis felt loose and the handling was less than inspiring. I prefer the feel of the Sentra platform muchly.

-Nick


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

That stanza in Japan came with both the Sr20DET and a CA18DET.


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## sentrastud (May 3, 2002)

boost_boy said:


> *That stanza in Japan came with both the Sr20DET and a CA18DET. *


well, that does improve things quite a bit! I bet they got a nicer suspension too...

-Nick


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2003)

hey was up yall i hade a 87 stanza i cant remember what code it was but it has a 2.0 engine its not the sr20de.even though its was a 4 door and really heavy it still smoked a lot of cars that i raced i only lost 2out of 15 races i lost to my homies b-11 sentra and i lost to a older vw gti but i smoke my friend 2000 mirage a shit load of civic and older 91-94 accords .


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Hey, arrrrright dudeski! Keep smokin' them homies in your Phaaaaat Stanza!


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

> Hey, arrrrright dudeski! Keep smokin' them homies in your Phaaaaat Stanza!


 I smell sarcasm, blown !


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

boost_boy said:


> *I smell sarcasm, blown ! *


 *****Oh boy, I need to take a rest!  I've been at it a bit too much lately.


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## sentrastud (May 3, 2002)

blownb310 said:


> ******Oh boy, I need to take a rest!  I've been at it a bit too much lately.  *


yeah, you need to sit back and enjoy a good brew. I recomend a Canadian beer , such as Molson Canadian.  

-Nick


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## BeEleven (Jan 22, 2003)

"Now the stanza is no P>O<S either"
~boost_boy


I agree...I drive an 89 Stanza with the CA20E...it's in pristine condition. All I've done to is put on a 2.5" cat-back with a flowmaster and had the resonator removed and it hauls ass. I couldn't be more happy with it considering its practically stock. It'll outrun most hondas.


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## OmegaManEX (Oct 4, 2002)

yEA!!

i have an 89 stanza WAGON . before i got my 200sx it was soo much fun driving it because its engine is verry rev happy, and it always keeps up with the hondas and sometimes beat them. but it is weird driving in a huge WAGON but on the other hand its the ultimate sleeper look


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## krusty (Jun 14, 2004)

are these 92' engines obsolete, or does it need an sr20det swap....


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

krusty said:


> are these 92' engines obsolete, or does it need an sr20det swap....


wow...no one has answered to this. So what do you mean by obsolete??? You can still get a KA24E...and I've seen stock stanza's with KA24DE also but not sure which few years they did that. prolly just 91 and 92 but who knows. 

and i read this whole thread...i can't believe you guys were dissin the CA20E!! and OmegaManEX knows how much fun it is to drive a quick box on wheels  everytime I go hang out friday nights i have one guy who always wants me to bring my stanza wagon even though it smokes and barely runs.......


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

Gsolo said:


> and I've seen stock stanza's with KA24DE also but not sure which few years they did that.


kinda sad i quoted myself....anyhow....i looked into it and 1993 Altima Stanza had KA24DE, all 150hp of it With the KA24DE in the stanza it probably would be faster than 240 cause i think its lighter. But 240 is driven the correct way


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

how much torque does that sucker have? I never new it had that much power.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

minute rice sentra said:


> how much torque does that sucker have? I never new it had that much power.


KA24DE?? umm...damn i just closed out mitchell...i think it was like 154 ft-lbs...yeah thats right. Cause the altima had 150hp 154 ft-lbs but the 240 had lik 155hp and 160ft-lbs. I actually thought about trying to stuff a KA24DE in my pulsar but decided against it cause i've never heard anything good about putting a lot of boost in and they don't rev as happy as the CA series. 

My cousin had a 90 hardbody and we were going to swap a 240 KA24DE into it but instead he traded it in for a 92 Talon Tsi with an automatic........i wasn't to happy about that but oh well his loss.


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## krusty (Jun 14, 2004)

ka24de sounds like the loot for swapping a 90's stanza.im glad it is though, i like the body.it dont feel that heavy either, although i've only drivin' a 92' z24 standard oppose to what im driving now.


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

The T12 which was sold as a Stanza or Auster in Japan end elsewhere was sold here as a Bluebird and later build here under the chassis code T72. They all came with CA SOHC engines here ranging from 1.6 carb to 2.0 injection. The one I have is a ZX turbo with CA18ET. So far all I've done to it is fit a CA20E intake, KA24DE thottle body, FMIC and BOV. I fitted Spax springs to drop it and some 16x7 Compomotives with 225/40x16's. The turbo model sold here has three way electronically adjustable shock and set in the firm setting the car handles very well even as it is. The next step is a CA18DET. Here's some pics of mine...



















We never got the KA24DE here in anything but I do have one in my Datsun 510 out of a US spec 240SX. It's stock apart from the intake and on 195 street tyres and an open diff it's run 14.62. It's a good torquey motor but for what I need it doesn't rev enough (I use the 510 on the track mainly) so it's going in favor of an SR20DE from a JDM S14 Silvia.  Here's the KA24DE in my 510...










-Eddie


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

looks good. So does a CA20E intake better than CA18ET?? i've never heard that but wow. and yeah, KA24DE is good engine, torquey, but not rev happy like the CA. And SR20 is probably more rev happy but not torquey as CA.


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

actually the CA is more rev happy and less tourquey than the SR. And Eddie, you have WAYYYYYY too much money!!! Gimme some!


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

minute rice sentra said:


> actually the CA is more rev happy and less tourquey than the SR. And Eddie, you have WAYYYYYY too much money!!! Gimme some!


well....i meant the CA20E is more torquey, and the SR revs higher, but yeah ca revs quicker. the ca20e would have been a perfect pickup engine if they gave it dohc and a little better breathing.


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

ok, gottcha


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

minute rice sentra said:


> ok, gottcha


 :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: i feel fluffy for some reason...CA20 had longer stroke creating more low end torque which suprisingly against theory didn't really change aspect of quick revving, but it didn't make any power after 6000, unlike sr20 does. Now if any of us get around to doing a CA20DE(t) then we'll see how nissan should have done it. :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: more fluffys


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

Gsolo said:


> looks good. So does a CA20E intake better than CA18ET?? i've never heard that but wow.


Compared side by side the CA20E runners are twice the length od the CA18ET ones and it has a decent sized plenum. The CA18ET doesn't really have a plenum at all. The CA20E intake also points the TB to the side so the intake pipe doesn't cross the top of the engine. This is good partly because it then doesn't get heated up by the hot engine but also because you can then pull the cam cover without having to dismantle anything else. Here's the difference between them...










When I changed the intake and TB (used a CA18DET TB) the most imeadiate difference was that the car hit full bosst 1000 rpm earlier than before. I'm only running stock boost on it, mainly because I want to see what real improvements things like the intake and FMIC make. It's all junkyard tuning  Full boost now occurs at 2500rpm and the car feels a little stronger right through the rev range. It also picked up 5mph top end.

Here's a before and after...



















Eddie


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

minute rice sentra said:


> And Eddie, you have WAYYYYYY too much money!!! Gimme some!


I wish  What I have got is a lot of parts, cars, tools, a welder and a big shed :thumbup:









Oh, and a ever growing credit card bill this year









Eddie


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

i didnt' think about the longer runners, that'll also create little more pull down low. and i've always wondered why they put the tb there on the turbo models...makes it a pita for anything, only good thing is its straight shot from turbo but that doesn't really make any difference. I'm still not sure what to do for intake on my project...i was thinking of keep the 20e intake (and now knowing this i thinki will) but not sure what for tb. although i'm not sure if the 20E intake fits the DE head. I'm going to use det exhaust manifold though when i get to turbo.


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

Gsolo said:


> I'm going to use det exhaust manifold though when i get to turbo.


http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/...ericesentra&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

Damn you to hell....you know i can't go spending my money now...... :balls: :balls: :balls: :balls: :balls: 


i want boost!!!! now i'm depressed. as much ungodly joy i get from my chevy i'd be in heaven with a CA20DET pulsar.


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

Sorry, forgot you didn't have the money to blow, I need to get rid of extra parts and stuff to make room for parts I really need and to get ready to move. Guess I'll stick that link in the Ebay finds thread for some self-promotion!


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

minute rice sentra said:


> Sorry, forgot you didn't have the money to blow, I need to get rid of extra parts and stuff to make room for parts I really need and to get ready to move. Guess I'll stick that link in the Ebay finds thread for some self-promotion!


no leave it...check your det manifold on ebay

edit: don't tell my fiance  

BtW, do you know if those det injectors would fit de intake?


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

k I'll leave it, from what I read, alot of different injectors will fit the DE(T) manifold, the DE and DET injectors are physically the same size. You can do some searching around here( http://nissaninfiniticlub.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=126 ) to find out what injectors will fit.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

wel.....if anything i'll bid on it and if i get it i'll find out at some time. i was thinking if the injectors fit any ca manifold could try it on normal ca20e . probably wouldnt' get anything out of it though. 

shipping gonna be less if i get both items?


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

yep, if you get the manifold and whatever injectors, you basicly pay shipping just for the manifold since the injectors don't weigh much. I have no idea if the injectors will go with the CA20 mani though.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

minute rice sentra said:


> yep, if you get the manifold and whatever injectors, you basicly pay shipping just for the manifold since the injectors don't weigh much. I have no idea if the injectors will go with the CA20 mani though.


well i read through NICO ( i always forget that theres a lot of good ca ppl there) and it sounds like it'd probably work. only thing would prolly be spacing between runners i suppose. oh well, i'll bid my measly bid on it.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

so now, crossing fingers, i get exhaust manifold and injectors...more parts to sit for awhile









at least now i've got a real start. which reminds me...i'm suppose to check out my ecu's today...


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

I know the injectors will swap between CA18ET and CA20E but the number one injector has a slightly offset mounting while the other three are the same. Only way I can describe what I mean is, if you image the injector tip and the little mounting bolt either side...well on three of the injectors the center line of the bolts and injector are in line. On that odd injector the injector is offset to one side instead. Does that make any sense? I'll have a look at the CA16DE I have in the shed today and compare that as it has the 8 port head like you CA twin cams. At a guess I'd say it's unlikely the injector spacing would be the same but you never know!

So, G-solo...what are you planning then...a CA20 bottom end with a DET head and turbo?

-Eddie-


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

i didn't think it would fit the ca20 but its somethign to hold onto for now. And yes...i'm basically planning ca20 bottom and 18de(t) top. What i'd like to do but never gotten solid research about is using 18det crank girdle and rods...not sure yet what to do with pistons. i might just do low boost with normal compression for the ca20, although the de head woudl probably raise the compression. But for sake of money and needing more power, when i get to the nissan project in a few years i'll just get a ca18de and throw the turbo on it and run like 5psi or something. When i do do the ca20det project i'll probably end up having to go with stand alone also. 

BTW so that no one brings it up yes i know about the timing belt issues of putting a dohc on sohc block.


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

Here most DE's have the crank girdle as well. I would have thought it'd be possible to use it with a CA20 block. I'm not so sure about the rods as I don't know if the center to center length is different. I would most deffinately use the rods if possible though as that's the weak bit on the SOHC engines.

The pistons in CA18DET are flat top anyway so I expect you wouldn't have a problem. I think it must be the difference in the head that reduces the compression over a DE. The increase in capacity would in itself increase compression though but only by a small amount.

-Eddie-


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

Ratdat said:


> Here most DE's have the crank girdle as well. I would have thought it'd be possible to use it with a CA20 block. I'm not so sure about the rods as I don't know if the center to center length is different. I would most deffinately use the rods if possible though as that's the weak bit on the SOHC engines.
> 
> The pistons in CA18DET are flat top anyway so I expect you wouldn't have a problem. I think it must be the difference in the head that reduces the compression over a DE. The increase in capacity would in itself increase compression though but only by a small amount.
> 
> -Eddie-


well...i'm hoping the de head doesn't change compression to much, otherwise i'd have to get custom pistons. and the shorter rods might make a difference to.


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

Ratdat said:


> The pistons in CA18DET are flat top anyway so I expect you wouldn't have a problem. I think it must be the difference in the head that reduces the compression over a DE. The increase in capacity would in itself increase compression though but only by a small amount.
> 
> -Eddie-



Are you saying the DE's over there have flat top pistons too? We have raised top(or whatever they're called) pistons on the DE's.


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

minute rice sentra said:


> Are you saying the DE's over there have flat top pistons too? We have raised top(or whatever they're called) pistons on the DE's.


All the DE's (regardless of whatever market) have domed pistons. And all the DETs have flat pistons. All heads are the same between the CA18DE and DET models less the older CA18DET models with the intercooled pipe running across the valve covers.

Dee


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

boost_boy said:


> All the DE's (regardless of whatever market) have domed pistons. And all the DETs have flat pistons. All heads are the same between the CA18DE and DET models less the older CA18DET models with the intercooled pipe running across the valve covers.
> 
> Dee


hey there's the man...do you know about the difference bewteen the 2liter sohc and the 18de head? besides the obvious i mean like combustion chamber size.


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## boost_boy (May 25, 2002)

Gsolo said:


> hey there's the man...do you know about the difference bewteen the 2liter sohc and the 18de head? besides the obvious i mean like combustion chamber size.


As for combustion chamber size, it would fall in line with the DE/DET blocks. The biggest issue would be valve sizing as the SOHC motor has bigger valves the DET. The CA20's pistons have notches on them for 16 valves, but only sport 8. Very strange engine indeed. But why fight with any of it; just get you a det and boost the crap out of it.

Dee


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

boost_boy said:


> As for combustion chamber size, it would fall in line with the DE/DET blocks. The biggest issue would be valve sizing as the SOHC motor has bigger valves the DET. The CA20's pistons have notches on them for 16 valves, but only sport 8. Very strange engine indeed. But why fight with any of it; just get you a det and boost the crap out of it.
> 
> Dee


i love the idea of a 2liter dohc with boost, and i hate following the crowd ( what little crowd there is anyhow )

and i should be getting an exhaust mani from a det


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Ratdat said:


> I would most deffinately use the rods if possible though as that's the weak bit on the SOHC engines.
> 
> -Eddie-


Eddie,
Thanks for taking the time to post the great pics earlier in this thread.









I am fooling around with a CA20E and did not know the rods were a weak spot. Aren't they forged just like any other Nissan engine? What shortcomings are you aware of for the CA20E rods?

Thanks!


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

the rods are great, like other nissan motors....but they can't handle the pressures that boost puts on them


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## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

This is a topic near and dear to my heart and I've done tons of research.

All CA motors share main and rod bearings so swapping the cranks between engines isn't a problem. Flywheel bolt patterns may cause a problem and I'm not sure of the various patterns. The DET crank girdle fits nicely on the CA18ET but it may be a problem on the CA20 since the crank has a longer stroke and the counterweights may not clear the girdle.

The CA20 has a much longer stroke and a higher deck than the CA18 so using a CA18 crank in a CA20 would leave you with super low compression.

Here's my latest idea for a frankenstien CA.
- CA20 block; bored .040 over, deck cut down to CA18 height
- Cutting the deck eliminates the problem of the CA18 timing belt being too short.
- CA20 crank stroked .25"
- Custom rods; needed to compensate for the 3-4mm cut off the deck.
- Also needed to overcome the CA20 wimpy rods
- Custom 11:1 pistons with valve reliefs for CA18
- CA18DE head; I've got an extra one now ; ported/polished, dual valve springs, competition valves, solid lifters
- Stage II reground cam 270/9.85
- Much larger injectors and to control it all, an SDS

Now what I really need is another B11


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

Myetball said:


> All CA motors share main and rod bearings so swapping the cranks between engines isn't a problem. Flywheel bolt patterns may cause a problem and I'm not sure of the various patterns.


Also the nose of the DE engine crank is a larger diameter so the SOHC pulleys won't fit without machining. The DE/T id an eight bolt crank and the E/T is six bolt. 

Mike: I've known more SOHC CA rods to fail than in any other Nissan engine, although usually in turbo motors. They seem to break in the same place each time too. I've got one here I can take a picture of from a CA18ET. I could be wrong when it comes to CA20's but I doubt they are any stronger than CA18ET rods. 

Incidentally, I only realised recently that CA18ET rods are almost the same as A14 rods, the only dimensional difference being the wrist pin which is 1mm smaller on an A14. At the bottom of the beam where the CA rods usually fail, the A14 rod looks to be a bit stronger!

-Eddie-


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Ratdat said:


> Mike: I've known more SOHC CA rods to fail than in any other Nissan engine, although usually in turbo motors. They seem to break in the same place each time too. I've got one here I can take a picture of from a CA18ET. I could be wrong when it comes to CA20's but I doubt they are any stronger than CA18ET rods.
> 
> Incidentally, I only realised recently that CA18ET rods are almost the same as A14 rods, the only dimensional difference being the wrist pin which is 1mm smaller on an A14. At the bottom of the beam where the CA rods usually fail, the A14 rod looks to be a bit stronger!
> 
> -Eddie-


 Myteball: Great info thanks! You guys are definately a leg up on me in regards to the CA's.

Eddie: Very interesting about the possible use of A14 rods.  Do you know how high these SOHC CA's are being revved to break the rods? Have you broken any yourself, or know someone who has?


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## Ratdat (Jun 5, 2004)

blownb310 said:


> Eddie: Very interesting about the possible use of A14 rods.  Do you know how high these SOHC CA's are being revved to break the rods? Have you broken any yourself, or know someone who has?


Between myself and two friends we have now broken a total of five CA18ET's. My last one threw TWO rods at the same time, one exited the block entirely! 







I rarely took that engine over 6000rpm and never beyond 6500. It was only running about 10psi boost. This is one of the rods...










Most of the failures apear to come with engines used in conversions. Because CA18ET's can be bought for peanuts here they are a popular choice for conversions, often into very light cars like B210's. Invariable such cars run pretty low final drives and I think it's this that causes them to die faster. It seems the regular use at high rpm just weakens them until they eventually break (if the big ends don't go first).

The engines seem to last better in S12 and T12 models, the cars in which they came from the factory, but both these models are heavy cars with tall final drives. I know in my T72 (same as a T12) the gearing is so tall the engine rarely sees the far side of 5500rpm.

Going back to the A series rods. I haven't got an A14 one to hand only an A12 but it'll serve to illustrate what I mean. The A12 rod has a narrower beam when viewed from the side but I doubt this will affect it's strength that much, as this part of the rod deals mostly with compression/tension loads and particularly as this isn't an area that usually fails. This does serve to make the rod lighter though. It is much wider at the bottom of the beam indicated by the arrows in the pic below. In the area where the CA18ET rod in the picture has failed the A series rod is much thicker. The center to center length and journal size and width appears to be the same as CA18 so it would only entail boring the wrist pin hole in order to make them fit.


















I haven't got any A14 rods to try but if I can lay my hands on some I may well give it a go as I have to rebuild a CA18ET for my T72 sometime. What I'd like to do is compare them with CA18DET rods. When I get a moment I'll take some decent pics of each type of rod.

-Eddie


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

check your PM's


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