# Crankshaft Stupidity



## Brother_Dave (Jan 26, 2007)

Ok.... I don't want to go into all the details that lead me to this question. Bottom line is "I'm an Idiot, and I should never do anything without the advice of this forum". Having said that, I am trying to remove my crankshaft pulley. All the directions I've gotten so far have said to remove the crankshaft bolt. That's my problem! When I turn it, the entire crank turns with it. The belt is already off (don't ask how I did that). What am i doing wrong (other than trying to do this myself)?

Thanks for any help you guys can give

Brother_Dave


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

I hope you did not try and remove the bolt without the timing belt being on. If you did you might have damaged the valves.

I suggest putting the T belt back on and the flywheel back on. Use a breaker bar or a pcs of wood and wedge it between the teeth of the flywheel and a stud or bolt coming off the back of the block and then proceed to unscrew the crank pulley bolt.

I really hope you didn't damage the valves by tuning the crank 360 deg.?

Everybody makes mistakes let's just hope this was not a big one.


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## Brother_Dave (Jan 26, 2007)

Totally turned it without the belt. Not 360 degrees, more like 250. Back and fourth, like a moron. Can't put the Tbelt on because of the tensioner that I can't loosen because of the bottom belt cover that i can't take off because I cant remove the pully because the belts not on.....................


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

If you can't put the pulley's for the timing belt back on put the flywheel back on?

Wait is your tranny still attached?


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## Brother_Dave (Jan 26, 2007)

I can put the pulleys back on, just not the belt. Hate to admit it, but I'm not sure what the flywheel is.

Yes tranny is attached


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

Brother_Dave said:


> I can put the pulleys back on, just not the belt. Hate to admit it, but I'm not sure what the flywheel is.
> 
> Yes tranny is attached


Ok, forget the pulley (I meant cam sprockets). The flywheel is in the tranny. I would remove the tranny from the block and expose the flywheel. Next you need to figure out a way to stop the flywheel from turning when you remove the crank pulley. A heavy duty screw driver or bar should do the trick.


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## Brother_Dave (Jan 26, 2007)

This project is getting scarier and scarier by the minute. Drop the tranny huh? Well that's a chapter in my chilton book that's never seen the light of day. Oh well, he goes nothin...............
any additional advice would be appreciated


You gotta learn somehow!


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## mwolvin (May 21, 2004)

I should have read this sooner. . . . 

I had a similar problem with mine. first off, I'm assuming you have an automatic transmission. If not, then the solution is easy-- put the car in gear. what I found that worked is I took a piece of angle iron-- the kind that has the holes predrilled in it, and fashioned a brace to stop the flywheel from turning. there are two pretapped holes on the prybar that will accept (I think it was an M8) screw. use these to attach the angle iron to the flywheel. Here are the challenges with this-- the two holes are opposite each other, so you will have to use multiple pieces of angle iron to build the brace-- I bought one piece(4 foot long) and cut two 4 inch pieces off of it and two 3 inch pieces off of it. I then attached the two 4 inch pieces to the end of the longer (remaining) piece and used the two three inch pcs to hold the angle (cross braced.) Please keep in mind that the assembly needs to brace against the sway bar located below the flywheel and should not be held by hand-- doing so creates a nice angle iron pretzel. you should then have access to the main bolt with your wrench (and breaker bar.)

You may want to go ahead and loosen the rockers before you attempt to remove the crankshaft pulley. In the unlikely event that the valves are not bent, this will prevent further damage.

Hope this helps.


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## thezman (Nov 3, 2007)

for goodness sakes i hope you people are talking about the harmonic balancer not the crank-shaft, or flywheel. for GOD's sake don't try to drop the tranny. just because you are having trouble with the harmonic balancer. first if you can't get the timing belt back on just pop the valve covers off and follow the FSM instructions on loosening the cams or rocker arms if so equipped that will release the pressure on the valve train and remove the danger of damaging the valves. DO NOT remove the cams completely just back up the bolts holding them in place till you can turn them over by hand. as for the harmonic balancer i'd either use an impact to back the bolt out, or use a apperatus as described above. If you don't have the equipment to make that wrap a leather belt around the harmonic balancer back thru the buckle so that the more you turn the balancer the tighter the belt grips tie the end of the belt off on something solid such as the crossmember or sway-bar. this is my favored way to remove central belts from harmonic balancers, cam gears etc.


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## Brother_Dave (Jan 26, 2007)

After much sweating, swearing and bending, I ended up getting the bottom belt cover off so I could get the belt back on. Problem is that now I have no idead where TDC is. The crank and each of the cams have been turned individually, so I have NO clue how to make it right.

I did not ever get the crank pully entirely off, I just found a way around it. Was that a serious suggestion to put it in gear(it is a manual)? I tried that and the car rolled with the turning of the crank.

It seems to be popular opinion that I have damaged my vaulves by turning it over. How would i go about repairing that?

THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THIS HELP


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

Brother_Dave said:


> After much sweating, swearing and bending, I ended up getting the bottom belt cover off so I could get the belt back on. Problem is that now I have no idead where TDC is. The crank and each of the cams have been turned individually, so I have NO clue how to make it right.
> 
> I did not ever get the crank pully entirely off, I just found a way around it. Was that a serious suggestion to put it in gear(it is a manual)? I tried that and the car rolled with the turning of the crank.
> 
> ...


I assumed you had the motor out of the car, sorry. Put the car in 5th gear and stomp on the brake. This will stop the engine from moving and you'll be able to remove the Main crank pulley. (2 person job)

If your valves are damage you'll have to take the heads off and bring them to a head shop for TLC.


Good Luck!


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## thezman (Nov 3, 2007)

personally i prefer putting it in 1st and yanking the E-brake. this stops the tranny from turning which stops the flywheel from turning-which stops the crankshaft from turning.

it is possible that you damaged the valves first get it all put back together correctly, starting with TDC. use the rotor position in the distributor (should be instructions how to do this in the FSM/chiltons) then line your cams up by the notches on your cam gear follow instructions in your service manual, get your timing belt back installed correctly.

NOW get a compression tester buy or borrow from parts house. Some loan them some don't. this will tell you definatively if you have bent valves or not. if you have correct compression no bent valves, if no compression bent valves. this method is much simpler than pulling the heads "just in case".

just because the car will crank when you get done DOESN'T mean that you didn't bend valves just that you didn't bend ALL of them lol.


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## Brother_Dave (Jan 26, 2007)

Wonderful. You guy's really are the greatest!. I am assuming that the notches on the cams you refer to (as well as the FSM and the chilton) are the letters on the pullies lined up with the itty bitty bump on the inside of the timing belt cover. I make this assumption because the distributor is in the 1 position when the cam on the drivers side (the marking is L3) is lined up with the mentioned itty bitty bump.
However the other side is not so easy. Each cam seems to only have certain places it wants to be in the circle. When you turn it it gives quite a bit of ressistance, then "snaps" into the next position. The problem is that in none of those positions is the marking (R3) lined up with the itty bitty bump. 

What am I mis-understanding?


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## thezman (Nov 3, 2007)

ok you do own a chilton's/FSM of some sort correct? if not here is a link to the FSMs CarFiche.com | The Best Kept Secret on the Web. I haven't had to mess with my timing belt specifically but i've been told that it can be pesky. Did you get your harmonic balancer off? you have to have it off to align the timing marks on the lower gear. the timing marks are very simply small indentions (dots) on the cam gears and on the engine, (on the top they are actually on the rear timing cover) I'm not saying much more on procedure because u need to follow the manual before you REALLY screw up your car......or take it to a shop for repair!!


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## Brother_Dave (Jan 26, 2007)

I am using both a chilton and a FSM. Neither is specific as to what the markings are on the upper gears. And yes, I've gotten the bottom gear lined up


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## mwolvin (May 21, 2004)

The timing belt itself should have white lines on it that line up with the indentations on the camshaft sprockets and the keyhole for the crankshaft. The FSM has a very specific procedure to follow and a pretty good diagram on what to look for. Make sure the rockers are loosened enough to not move the valves before turning the camshafts-- the resistance you are feeling when turning the cam's is probably the camshaft actuating the valves-- you don't want the valves being moved until after the belt is installed.


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## Brother_Dave (Jan 26, 2007)

I'm sure this is a stupid question, but would I need to put ALL the belts back on to crank it and see if i got it right? As of now all I've put back on is the harmonic balancer. Once I crank it, and push on the gas. It "kind of" turns over and shakes and bangs. At this point, I'm about to put all the parts I've taken off in a bag, and put it up for sale, but I want to make sure I've tried everything else first.


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## thezman (Nov 3, 2007)

no you don't have to have all the belts on just the timing belt and harmonic balancer. just make sure you got your timing right. and keep in mind that you have no working water pump so if it does crank it will get hot very very quickly.


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

Worse case, go buy a rebuilt/used engine. I'm sure they are affordable. I would do a compression check to make sure the the valves aren't bent. I believe valve jobs run about $100 a head.

Don't give up!


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