# whats the best street Suspension setup fpr the b14



## bussardnr (Aug 11, 2004)

whats the best setup that wont be to expensive?


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

hey bud did you try searching? also look at the stickies at the top of this suspension forum they will help :cheers:


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## Radioaktiv (Feb 12, 2004)

i hear great things about the Tein SS


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## bussardnr (Aug 11, 2004)

so is that all i'll need? is there a good place to get these somewhere?


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

What do you mean by "best"?
- The most comfortable (e.g. don't feel minor irregularities on the road, never bottoms, ...)?
- Best on city roads?
- Best on the highway?
- The best handling (e.g. goes around corners/curves the best)?
- The biggest drop?
- The best comprimise between handling and comfort?
- Your SO won't complain?
- ....

What's too expensive?
$300
$500
$1000
$1500
$2500

Lew


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## Rathi134 (Jul 11, 2003)

bussardnr said:


> whats the best setup that wont be to expensive?



I love my tein super streets but they cost big bucks (1k)


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## xbrandonx (Mar 27, 2004)

lshadoff said:


> What do you mean by "best"?
> - The most comfortable (e.g. don't feel minor irregularities on the road, never bottoms, ...)?
> - Best on city roads?
> - Best on the highway?
> ...


not sure if bussardnr is gonna reply back but I'm gonna use this to my advantage though.

I want something that is going to make my car look clean, so any amount of drop will be nice. Mostly road driving, highways and city roads. Alot of stop and go but still a decent amount of 70+ with cruise control on as well. I would like a good comprimise between handling and comfort. Looking to put about $1000 max for the parts, will go over if necessary but would like to keep it around there.

Car: 98 Sentra. Mods so far and will be done BEFORE suspesion will even be touched: 16" wheels 205/45/16 tires, WAI w/K&N filter, HS header, Stromung Exhaust, SE-R cat converter. Also will have a CF hood and fiberglass fenders to drop a bit of weight off the front end.

No big plans as of yet when it comes to other mods but thought I would add that to help let you know where I'm headed. If not ignore that last paragrapgh and sorry for wasting 15 seconds of your time for trying to help me.


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

For a car that is used on the street (no track/autocross) and will be lowered, the best setup is a coilover with shortened struts. The spring rates should be in the area of 325/225 F/R which is a good compromise between comfort and still strong enough to keep the car off the bump stops. The additional cost of a setup with adjustable dampers is not justifiable. 

The closest setup to this is the Tien Basics which are in your price range. I have not read a single post by someone who installed these that did not like them. 

Lew


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## jmann98 (Aug 20, 2004)

Tein Basic Dampers are basically the SS set up without the dampening adjustability that off-street racers are key on, for a few hundred less. SS might be overkill for you. You could put on a rear anti-sway bar with the money saved. Or put on Tein's pillowball uppermounts.

If its just for the street and you're doing a lot of stop and go, or you have mediocre roads around, I would recommend matching whichever Tein setup you get with some tires that don't have too stiff a sidewall, otherwise the ride can get tiresome and the road may push you around more. I switched from Falken Azenis Sports (about the stiffest sidewall you can get for street tires) to Kuhmo 712s, and it was a relief. The Toyo T1-S is quite sticky, without the stiff sidewalls of Azenis Sports or even Yoko ES100s or Parada Spec 2s. Then again, you pay for them.

Another thing to think about: after you step up to stiff springs, your next handling concern will probably be understeer: think twice before adding front anti-sway bars and braces - you might just want to put them in the back if you're looking to buy some. When I upgraded to Tein Basic, my understeer actually got worse. My car is now flatter and more controlled , but I don't know if it actually would run a skid pad much faster. This is where a rear bar or pillowball mounts (camber adjustability) can help.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

jmann98 said:


> think twice before adding front anti-sway bars and braces - you might just want to put them in the back if you're looking to buy some.


I disagree. Yes, a front anti-sway bar will cause more understeer, but the flexible front end of our cars is responsible for much of the understeer you experience. Strut tower bars, lower control arm braces, and other front braces will reduce the amount of understeer your car produces (amongst other positive side effects).

PS: The goal of skidpad testing is _not_ to find a setup for your suspension system so you "run" at the fastest possible speed.


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## jmann98 (Aug 20, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> I disagree. Yes, a front anti-sway bar will cause more understeer, but the flexible front end of our cars is responsible for much of the understeer you experience. Strut tower bars, lower control arm braces, and other front braces will reduce the amount of understeer your car produces (amongst other positive side effects).
> 
> How does flexing in the front end of a car lead to more understeer?
> 
> PS: The goal of skidpad testing is _not_ to find a setup for your suspension system so you "run" at the fastest possible speed.


If my car gets flatter, I expect it would run skid pads faster. Better skid pad numbers are one reflection of your car's handling ability. I guess I don't understand your "PS."


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

jmann98 said:


> If my car gets flatter, I expect it would run skid pads faster. Better skid pad numbers are one reflection of your car's handling ability. I guess I don't understand your "PS."


You're not measuring speed on a skid pad. You're measuring the amount of lateral acceleration ("g's") your car can sustain while still keeping to the confines of the pad. So running a skidpad "faster" doesn't mean anything.

EDIT: I didn't notice that you asked a question because it was inside the quote.

A flexible front chassis affects the way the forces are transmitted from the road, up one end of the car, and to the other end of the car (and of course, vice versa). They also affect how well your struts/springs do their job.

For example, a flexible front end will allow the front struts to move laterally, causing temporary changes in camber depending on the amount of lateral load applied to them. Any changes in camber will affect the amount of grip your front wheels have. In the case of a front drive car (which inherently "gains" positive camber to the outside front wheel during cornering even without the problem of your front struts moving), this could mean that the camber of that wheel becomes more positive than what you set it to statically, causing the size of the tyre contact patch to decrease significantly. This will cause understeer.

There are numerous other examples, but I chose the above because that's the main reason people use strut tower bars. Strut tower bars attach the outside strut (and the strut mounting point on the chassis) to the inside strut, preventing the both struts from moving as much during cornering.

For a more detailed explaination about this specific example (by someone who isn't as lazy as I am), check out this informative little page written by Gustave Stroes.


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## p_reed (Jul 5, 2004)

ok, in theory a fwd car is supposed to have understeer problems. That is commonly accepted knowledge. BUT......much of the understeer is not from the front end being flexible, althought that is a large part of it. these are the 2 major reasons a fwd car oversteers.

#1 When you accelerate out of a turn, the weight of the car shifts toward the back of the car, away from the weheels that are trying to propell it, decreasing the amount of weight over the propelling weheels. (the more weight that is centered over the wheels, the more tracton there is. this is why you can turn faster in a go cart when you lean toward the inside, the inside 2 tires that normally do nothing, are now starting to grip.) 

#2 There is X amount of traction you can get from your tires. weather it be accellerating, turning, or braking. if you are accelerating with 100% percent of the traction of the tires, then you try to turn the car, you will understeer. If you brake with 100% of your traction and try to turn, you will understeer.
If you are turning the car with 100% of the traction and accelerate, you will understerr.

I agree with these 2 statements.......but, there is not jsut one formula as to how all cars handle. There are many more factors in why your car handles the way it does. Personally I have had many more problems from there not being anthing on the ass end of my stock sentra. I have oversteerd many more times than i have understeered. (note: these incidents took place while i was neither accelerating, nor braking, just using the tires to their full capability) so, in my opinion, the b14 has oversteer problems, as well as understeer problems.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

p_reed said:


> so, in my opinion, the b14 has oversteer problems, as well as understeer problems.


Just to give us an idea of what you're dealing with here, can you describe any modifications you've done to your suspension system/chassis? Also, what does the alignment on your car look like?


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

p_reed said:


> ok, in theory a fwd car is supposed to have understeer problems. That is commonly accepted knowledge. BUT......much of the understeer is not from the front end being flexible, althought that is a large part of it. these are the 2 major reasons a fwd car oversteers.
> 
> #1 When you accelerate out of a turn, the weight of the car shifts toward the back of the car, away from the weheels that are trying to propell it, decreasing the amount of weight over the propelling weheels. (the more weight that is centered over the wheels, the more tracton there is. this is why you can turn faster in a go cart when you lean toward the inside, the inside 2 tires that normally do nothing, are now starting to grip.)


But 60% of the weight of a FWD car is in the front. In a turn, cenrtrifugal forces will push the front out more than the rear. This is the main reason FWD cars understeer. 



p_reed said:


> #2 There is X amount of traction you can get from your tires. weather it be accellerating, turning, or braking. if you are accelerating with 100% percent of the traction of the tires, then you try to turn the car, you will understeer. If you brake with 100% of your traction and try to turn, you will understeer.
> If you are turning the car with 100% of the traction and accelerate, you will understerr.


But the drive wheels are steerable. It is possible to use this to pull through a curve. Also, if the car has LSD, the power is put to the wheel with the most traction which aids this. 



p_reed said:


> I agree with these 2 statements.......but, there is not jsut one formula as to how all cars handle. There are many more factors in why your car handles the way it does. Personally I have had many more problems from there not being anthing on the ass end of my stock sentra. I have oversteerd many more times than i have understeered. (note: these incidents took place while i was neither accelerating, nor braking, just using the tires to their full capability) so, in my opinion, the b14 has oversteer problems, as well as understeer problems.


Tire pressure also plays a role. The factory recommends more pressure in the front tires than the rear of a FWD car, which gives more traction in the front than the rear 

Lew.


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## aftershock141 (May 18, 2004)

xbrandonx said:


> not sure if bussardnr is gonna reply back but I'm gonna use this to my advantage though.
> 
> I want something that is going to make my car look clean, so any amount of drop will be nice. Mostly road driving, highways and city roads. Alot of stop and go but still a decent amount of 70+ with cruise control on as well. I would like a good comprimise between handling and comfort. Looking to put about $1000 max for the parts, will go over if necessary but would like to keep it around there.
> 
> ...


That sounds almost exactly like what I'll be doin to my 98. Good luck. Is yours the 1.6 or 2.0? I'm guessing 1.6 since you need the cat converter. I'm not sure though just lookin it to see if I would need one of those or not, I have the 2.0.


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## jmann98 (Aug 20, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> You're not measuring speed on a skid pad. You're measuring the amount of lateral acceleration ("g's") your car can sustain while still keeping to the confines of the pad. So running a skidpad "faster" doesn't mean anything.


I agree that ultimately you are measuring lateral acceleration ("g"s), but, everything else being constant as in my case, lateral acceleration directly corresponds to a faster speed through a given turn. Holding everything constant, I can conclude that higher lateral acceleration would translate into a higher speed through a turn, and vice versa - that a higher speed through a given turn would translate into greater lateral acceleration. So if my car does not increase in speed through a given turn as the result of a particular modification, then I can conclude that my maximum lateral acceleration has not increased. So I would disagree and say that, yes, "faster" does mean something (everything), because it directly correlates to lateral acceleration, everything else being held constant. As I do not have access to a g-measuring device, I can nonetheless use the variable of speed to determine if maximum lateral acceleration has increased or not. No?


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

jmann98 said:


> I agree that ultimately you are measuring lateral acceleration ("g"s), but, everything else being constant as in my case, lateral acceleration directly corresponds to a faster speed through a given turn. Holding everything constant, I can conclude that higher lateral acceleration would translate into a higher speed through a turn, and vice versa - that a higher speed through a given turn would translate into greater lateral acceleration. So if my car does not increase in speed through a given turn as the result of a particular modification, then I can conclude that my maximum lateral acceleration has not increased. So I would disagree and say that, yes, "faster" does mean something (everything), because it directly correlates to lateral acceleration, everything else being held constant. As I do not have access to a g-measuring device, I can nonetheless use the variable of speed to determine if maximum lateral acceleration has increased or not. No?


Your theory works IF you ignore one major fact about cars. That fact is that our cars run on flexible rubber tyres.

If you've ever read anything explaining the basics of tyre dynamics, you will understand that rubber (they're not really made of rubber per se, but people like to call it that anyway) tyres generate the most grip as they slip. The most notable reason for this is that tyre compounds have a much higher coefficient of kinetic friction than static friction when they are on paved surfaces. Some tyres require more slip than others to achieve this peak grip, due either to the composition of the tyre compound or the construction of the carcass.

Now, the speedometer in your car is calibrated so that it measures the current speed assuming that the tyres are not slipping significantly. When you take your car out on the skid pad and attempt to measure the maximum amount of traction you have during cornering, your tyres are slipping far more than the speedometer expects. This will throw off your speedometer's readings, which will have a significant (believe me, I've seen a comparison between these methods in person) difference in readings than if you measured lateral acceleration with a g-meter. Because of the way radar guns work, using an inexpensive radar gun won't help matters much either (the guns will assume that you're moving in a straight line, even though you clearly aren't). Therefore, the method you described is not a reliable method of measuring the amount of lateral "grip" your car can produce.

If you wanted to remedy that issue, you would need to attach a small fifth wheel (which is not equipped with an air-inflated rubber tyre) to the car which would do nothing but measure how much distance you've covered and calculate the vehicle speed. Apparently people actually used to rely on this method, though it was far before my time (hell, it was even before I was born). This method is far from perfect though, as the lighter the car gets, the more the weight and tractive capabilities of the fifth wheel affect the car. According to Milliken & Milliken*, this was the main reason they stopped using the fifth-wheel method.

If you want to get accurate skidpad measurements, you are going to have to purchase/borrow/rent/steal a g-meter. There really is no other way to eliminate the factors which will cause errors in your measurement. But if you really want to insist on not using one, there is a method out there that will produce more accurate measurements than what you're getting now. I'm a bit busy at the moment so I won't post it now, but if you want to know, PM me and I'll explain how to do it (just give me a bit of time to respond).

_*Milliken & Milliken are the authors of this nice little vehicle dynamics text called "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics". It's probably one of the best textbook-style books I've ever read on the matter. If you guys are interested in really knowing the physics behind race car dynamics, I highly reccomend it._


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## p_reed (Jul 5, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> Your theory works IF you ignore one major fact about cars. That fact is that our cars run on flexible rubber tyres.
> 
> If you've ever read anything explaining the basics of tyre dynamics, you will understand that rubber (they're not really made of rubber per se, but people like to call it that anyway) tyres generate the most grip as they slip. The most notable reason for this is that tyre compounds have a much higher coefficient of kinetic friction than static friction when they are on paved surfaces. Some tyres require more slip than others to achieve this peak grip, due either to the composition of the tyre compound or the construction of the carcus


I have a question, are you reffering to what is commonly reffered as a SLIP ANGLE? Because in all of my reading about tires and suspension when the tire surpasses its gretest point of friction, it begins to slip. After it slips the amount of traction goes way down extremely fast. now, so what you are saying is that when the tires first begin to slip, that is where the gretest point of traction is?.....I am assuming you are not talking about drift, correct?



ReVerm said:


> Just to give us an idea of what you're dealing with here, can you describe any modifications you've done to your suspension system/chassis? Also, what does the alignment on your car look like?


My 97 sentra is comepletely stock, 1.6



lshadoff said:


> But 60% of the weight of a FWD car is in the front. In a turn, cenrtrifugal forces will push the front out more than the rear. This is the main reason FWD cars understeer.


Im not Going to disagree with this statement, it is true that the weight in the front pushes a FF car towards outwards. I just dont personally believe that it is the main reason for understeer.
http://www.dur.ac.uk/r.g.bower/PoM/pom/node22.html#figtraccirc



lshadoff said:


> But the drive wheels are steerable. It is possible to use this to pull through a curve. Also, if the car has LSD, the power is put to the wheel with the most traction which aids this.


True, LSD can help, But being able to "pull the car through the corner" isnt true. The front tires have 2 jobs now instead of 1. pulling and turning. 2 isnt always better than one. 


lshadoff said:


> Tire pressure also plays a role. The factory recommends more pressure in the front tires than the rear of a FWD car, which gives more traction in the front than the rear


I have always had more air pressure in myfront tires, than in my back ones.


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## jmann98 (Aug 20, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> Your theory works IF you ignore one major fact about cars. That fact is that our cars run on flexible rubber tyres.
> 
> If you've ever read anything explaining the basics of tyre dynamics, you will understand that rubber (they're not really made of rubber per se, but people like to call it that anyway) tyres generate the most grip as they slip. The most notable reason for this is that tyre compounds have a much higher coefficient of kinetic friction than static friction when they are on paved surfaces. Some tyres require more slip than others to achieve this peak grip, due either to the composition of the tyre compound or the construction of the carcass.
> 
> ...


ReVerm, thank you for your informative reponse. I naturally have a few responses. 

1. Skidpad tests test lateral acceleration to the point of loss of traction, so why would the speedometer inaccuracies you refer to matter?

2. I'm not actually watching the speedometer as I'm going through a tight turn at max speed. My observations, hardly scientific, are based entirely on my seat-of-the-pants perception of speed on a couple turns I've taken numerous times. After ditching stock for Tein Basics, I noticed but a modest "perceived" increase in the ability to take the turn without the front end coming loose. Maybe I was just expecting M3 handling based on all those "now I take ramps at 75mph when I used to take them at 45mph" type comments I hear from a few yo-yos out there.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

jmann98 said:


> ReVerm, thank you for your informative reponse. I naturally have a few responses.
> 
> 1. Skidpad tests test lateral acceleration to the point of loss of traction, so why would the speedometer inaccuracies you refer to matter?


Because tyres slipping don't necessarily equate to traction loss. At the limit of your tyres' traction, your tyres are covering more ground than you or your odometer/speedometer think they are. And to respond to p_reed's question, I suppose you could say I'm referring to slip angle/percentage slip, but not directly. I was really looking more at seeing how the tyres literally slip.



jmann98 said:


> 2. I'm not actually watching the speedometer as I'm going through a tight turn at max speed. My observations, hardly scientific, are based entirely on my seat-of-the-pants perception of speed on a couple turns I've taken numerous times. After ditching stock for Tein Basics, I noticed but a modest "perceived" increase in the ability to take the turn without the front end coming loose. Maybe I was just expecting M3 handling based on all those "now I take ramps at 75mph when I used to take them at 45mph" type comments I hear from a few yo-yos out there.


I'd stop relying on the "seat of the pants experience" as soon as possible. You'd be surprised how easy it is to create a slow setup that feels really, really fast around a skidpad or slalom.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

p_reed said:


> My 97 sentra is comepletely stock, 1.6


What do your alignment settings look like?

Sorry about all these questions, but I do want to know why you're having mid-corner oversteer problems in a car I couldn't even get to lift-throttle oversteer sometimes.


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## p_reed (Jul 5, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> What do your alignment settings look like?
> 
> Sorry about all these questions, but I do want to know why you're having mid-corner oversteer problems in a car I couldn't even get to lift-throttle oversteer sometimes.


My alignment is good, pretty much what is supposed to be stock. Do you have a sentra or 200sx, because im thinking that the 200s have a little more weight in the back, therefore they wont get out so easy. It could just be my driving style as well..... i still havnt quite completlely figured it out myself. I do know that when i have weight in the back of my car it doesnt happen. and when there isnt it wants to do it easy. i have a set of good sumitomos on it now and when i corrner i can feel that the backend is what is wanting to come out first. i can feel the back end start pushing, just a little bit as the tires keep it from coming out.


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

i would seriously suggest you have this looked at. cars arnt supposed to just swing out with out alittle persuasion (a Porsche maybe, but not an econo box) our cars have a lot of understeer designed into them. sounds like you may have (+ or -? idk ) toe as this can be unsafe


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

p_reed said:


> My alignment is good, pretty much what is supposed to be stock. Do you have a sentra or 200sx, because im thinking that the 200s have a little more weight in the back, therefore they wont get out so easy. It could just be my driving style as well..... i still havnt quite completlely figured it out myself. I do know that when i have weight in the back of my car it doesnt happen. and when there isnt it wants to do it easy. i have a set of good sumitomos on it now and when i corrner i can feel that the backend is what is wanting to come out first. i can feel the back end start pushing, just a little bit as the tires keep it from coming out.


I have a 200sx, and although I normally keep a fair amount of tools and junk in the trunk, I remove all of that plus my spare when I test.

That feeling you describe, does it happen during daily driving as well? And have you ever had the rear end actually slide out as a result of that? If not, you may be experiencing the same thing I was before.

When my rear toe was still at the factory setting, I would run into this weird thing where I'd just lose feeling of the rear end at the end of the entry phase in certain corners. Like I'd be turning into an offramp after braking, and all of the sudden, the rear wheels of my car would just stop giving me feedback for a moment (even though the rear tyres were nowhere near their limit of traction). This happened well below track speeds (mostly during my commute to work) and in all kinds of weather conditions. After doing a bit of research I found out that the culprits were the amount of rear toe in I had and the soft, flexible sidewalls of my Sumitomo HTR-200's.

I'm not sure if that's what you're experiencing, but if it is, it's more a loss of feedback than a loss of traction so it's technically not overteer. Never have I actually lost traction in the rear wheels while that was happening (even in the snow). It is very, very unnerving though.


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## p_reed (Jul 5, 2004)

No its, its over steer, most of the time if i have room ill just let it spin, but if there isnt ill go ahead and counter steer. I still say its because the sentra doesnt have a back end to it.


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

p_reed said:


> I still say its because the sentra doesnt have a back end to it.


no thats not it at all. i have seen b14's with a carbon fiber trunk and they do not complain about this. the thing is our car has SERIOUS understeer designed into the stock suspension, now if you have tweaked something by your self thats different, but from what i gather your like me stock but with high perf. tires. YOUR CAR SHOULD NOT DO THIS! have a dealer take a good hard long look at it. some thing IS wrong. granted the suspension is no fun but i have never gotten my car to spin. i have given it major corner braking too all that leads to is.........understeer, if i want it to spin i need to pull the ebrake. this really sounds dangerous.


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## apachewoolf (Mar 7, 2004)

1.6pete said:


> no thats not it at all. i have seen b14's with a carbon fiber trunk and they do not complain about this. the thing is our car has SERIOUS understeer designed into the stock suspension, now if you have tweaked something by your self thats different, but from what i gather your like me stock but with high perf. tires. YOUR CAR SHOULD NOT DO THIS! have a dealer take a good hard long look at it. some thing IS wrong. granted the suspension is no fun but i have never gotten my car to spin. i have given it major corner braking too all that leads to is.........understeer, if i want it to spin i need to pull the ebrake. this really sounds dangerous.


 My car refuses to lose grip unless I use the ebrake and then it's a case of hold on this ain't gonna be good...but those days are behind me now I found the love of a full tank of gas is all I need to not even be able to use the ebrake...maybe I need to adjust the cable or something because it don't work no more unless I'm almost stopped


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

apachewoolf said:


> maybe I need to adjust the cable or something because it don't work no more unless I'm almost stopped


probly stretched the cable. to lock the wheels ya have to jerk it really suddenly and that streches the cable. remember when you would ride a bike and after a wile of useing the hand brake it wouls soften up? then use used the thumb adjester and it would be fine again?..............same thing


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## apachewoolf (Mar 7, 2004)

ohhhhhh got ya so the cable is most likely stretched then????

Are you able to adjust for the ebrake? I have never done it before. I'm sure you can but I have never done it.


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

apachewoolf said:


> ohhhhhh got ya so the cable is most likely stretched then????
> 
> Are you able to adjust for the ebrake? I have never done it before. I'm sure you can but I have never done it.


hmm im sure you can but i dont know where the adjuster is, its probly just like a thumb adjuster on a bike tho. that you will need to find in the b14 section

but about p.reed's over steer..........last night i was coming home and there is a fun corner off of route 22 onto my back ally and there is soooooooo much room its not even funny, so i decided to yank the e-brake...........got alittle slide but as soo as i let go the tires stick like glue again, so unless your doing 60mph it shouldnt be anydifferant for you, get that looked at on your car :cheers:


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

but when ever you lower a b14 make sure you get these! :waving: hurry up!


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## p_reed (Jul 5, 2004)

Of course your tires stuck liek glue. whenever you pull the ebrake, especially on dry pavement, the back tires will do that, you arnt going fas enough for the back tires to come out. you have to be going like 60 for the tires to give out with the e-brake. Im not talking about ass draging. Im talking about hard cornering in a car. when i go around a corner a little bit too fast, my car will more than likely oversteer, than understeer. if i try to go aroung a corner way to fast, of course, my car will understeer, any will.


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## Rathi134 (Jul 11, 2003)

ill say it once, ill say it again, and im sure ive said this in other threads. i love my tein ss coilovers, but ive heard good things about hyperco


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

Rathi134 said:


> ill say it once, ill say it again, and im sure ive said this in other threads. i love my tein ss coilovers, but ive heard good things about hyperco


Haha. I think you're one thread off. : P


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