# KA-T GUYS lets talk



## s3v3rth3stars (Mar 13, 2003)

this may be old and outdated but maybe some people can bring fresh ideas to the table.

i am trying to build an engine that will take the rigors of drifting and still stay street worthy. (if i have to sacrifice i would rather sacrifice anything that gets in the way of drifting  )

1. it has been said that the ka24de head does not flow as well as the sr20 head.
this may be true but i find it hard to believe since the ka24 has larger ports, and with some porting and polishing would be a phenomenal head.

2.the ka24 is larger which means it has more potential for less money. this is a fact so i hope someone dosent come runing up here trying to disprove it. 

3. the ka is not a rev happy engine, but no one seems to understand that it makes its power lower in the and, all that torque is accesible down low where you need it most for off the line racing and shooting out of corners. 

4.the cooling system on the sr is as we all know horrible.. the ka's cooling system however has proven very reliable.

am i right guys? i want to know what you have to say, let's rally together the best ideas and pros to cons on the KA-T


----------



## azRPS13 (Jun 7, 2003)

This will be a good thread if people reply! Good job sevenstars :thumbup:


----------



## s3v3rth3stars (Mar 13, 2003)

thanks bro. the same thing happened over at 240sxforums, i know there has to be tons of ka-t lovers out there. if they only responded i know we'd get a lot of great stuff in here


----------



## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

s3v3rth3stars said:


> this may be old and outdated but maybe some people can bring fresh ideas to the table.
> 
> i am trying to build an engine that will take the rigors of drifting and still stay street worthy. (if i have to sacrifice i would rather sacrifice anything that gets in the way of drifting  )
> 
> ...


1- porting and polishing will do nothing to the head other than slighty increase the airflow. it will not improve the head. it's in the technology, not the design so much.
2- yes, the ka is larger. no, it does not have more potential for the same amount of money. you can get to where a stock SR is for about the same amount of money you would spend on the SR.
3- if you want to drift, then low end power doesnt matter. 
4- the SR cooling system isnt that bad. change the pullies and you're set. the water pump cavitates at high-rpm's which leads to no cooling. 

yay. i win, you lose, good bye.


----------



## IvanAtSPRacing (May 16, 2004)

1) I believe the KA DE head flows really well. The 91 I just finished has a completely stock motor, head, intake, cams, etc. At 10 psi the car layed down 305 RWHP. Has an SR even come close? At 16 psi it put down 404 RWHP and 409 TQ. Again, never heard of an SR putting down that much power at that low of boost. The KA seems to LOVE boost.

2) The kit in the 91 should retail around 6500 bux. Can you do an SR swap and buy the parts needed to make 400 WHP for less? 

3) The 91 I just got done with made more TQ then Enjuku racings race car.

4) I dont know much about the SR cooling system. The 91 has no problems with cooling.


----------



## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

93blackSER said:


> 1- porting and polishing will do nothing to the head other than slighty increase the airflow. it will not improve the head. it's in the technology, not the design so much.
> 2- yes, the ka is larger. no, it does not have more potential for the same amount of money. you can get to where a stock SR is for about the same amount of money you would spend on the SR.
> 3- if you want to drift, then low end power doesnt matter.
> 4- the SR cooling system isnt that bad. change the pullies and you're set. the water pump cavitates at high-rpm's which leads to no cooling.
> ...


was a somewhat good response until the last sentence. dont be immature about it. give your opinion and leave. its this attitude that makes people NOT wanna come back.
its been proven that the ka head can be made to flow very well, despite your theory about it.
im not going to argue point for point though. the sr is much easier imo to use/swap/turbo than the ka. but until youve ridden in a ka-t powered car, dont be so ruthlessly intolerant of it.


----------



## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

2 - Its larger because its not turbo. I am going to stick with the argument that because it wasnt designed to be turbo, it wont be the preferred choice for turbo modification. Thats not to say Nissan didnt overengineer it enough to provide some buffer for turboing it!

3 - The low end torque comes mostly from the combination of capacity and compression. Lower the compression and you lose torque. I agree though that if you leave the compression your low rpm takeoff is quite good - this has been proved in turboing SR20DE's, but ive seen a fair number of turboed SR20DE's pop after a few months. Then again ive seen 2 last for over 2 years with big GT turbos on them!

4 -Sr cooling its mostly failings with the radiator and water pump failing. Replace these and its ok but yes, its extra cost.


----------



## s3v3rth3stars (Mar 13, 2003)

great replies guys. just what i wanted, i knew the sr guys would defend their engine (which has its place in my heart as well) and the ka guys are cranking out amazing points about their's (which i have grown to love.)

someone said low end torque did not matter in drifting? i do not see how that statement is true but i would like to be enlightened if someone where so kind to do so. i thought low end torque would be essential to get those tires smokin'

and for my friend putting down 404hp at 16 psi, how are you managing your fuel/air ratios?


----------



## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

s3v3rth3stars said:


> someone said low end torque did not matter in drifting? i do not see how that statement is true but i would like to be enlightened if someone where so kind to do so. i thought low end torque would be essential to get those tires smokin'


when you drift, you keep your RPM's very high, making low end useless.


----------



## 20psi 240sx (Apr 28, 2003)

the ka does have a better valvetrain then the sr. i remember seeing a sr20det make a little over 400whp at 16psi a couple years ago using a stand alone. i like both motors. it just seems that a lot of ka's can't manage they big numbers on stock internals like the sr can. but this may just be because i have only heard of a few. there might be many i haven't heard of. 
if you could take a ka and de stroke it, and punch it out a few mm i think it would make a great high reving motor. there is a nice 2.4L stocker for the sr, that would be a good comparison...:0). actually i've heard of a 2.7L SR. 
anyway, we have turboed like 20 sr20de motors, and some with 10:1 compression. it makes a huge difference. the 10:1 is a beast from 2000rpm and up. turbo either motor, and you have a fast ride.
shaun


----------



## Nismo14-180 (Mar 31, 2004)

93blackSER said:


> when you drift, you keep your RPM's very high, making low end useless.


The RPM's aren't always high while in a drift. Some i've done weren't even over 5500. It depends on where you practice.


----------



## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

Nismo14-180 said:


> The RPM's aren't always high while in a drift. Some i've done weren't even over 5500. It depends on where you practice.


5500 isnt quite low-end, not even close actually.


----------



## Kelso (Apr 29, 2003)

where do you get the idea that 5500 is low end? your 500 rpms from the redline!


----------



## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

in which engine? the ka-t ecu gets re-programmed to 7k.


----------



## s3v3rth3stars (Mar 13, 2003)

both engines are great, do you guys think it is possible to make 300-350 on a motor with only low compression pistons and headwork? on a ka-t that is? my only concern with the ka-t is how to manage the setup. 

the reason i started this thread is because i am thinking of buying a used motor and building up before putting it back in the 240, with low comp pistons head work and maybe other things that come up along the way. but i am concerned with the fuel management (this is my daily driver so it has to last me a good 5 years. )


----------



## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

the ka is capable of 350 hp with stock internals. some people say more, some people say less. i heard from some nissan techs that 350 is the magic number. if you remove the weak link from the ka - the pistons - and replace them with quality pistons, you can get more than that. depending on your engine management, which is a must if youre aiming that high. you can run 12-13 lbs of boost very easily. i know a guy here in az running 13lbs for the last 50k miles with no problems on the stock bottom end. its all about engine management.


----------



## IvanAtSPRacing (May 16, 2004)

s3v3rth3stars said:


> great replies guys. just what i wanted, i knew the sr guys would defend their engine (which has its place in my heart as well) and the ka guys are cranking out amazing points about their's (which i have grown to love.)
> 
> someone said low end torque did not matter in drifting? i do not see how that statement is true but i would like to be enlightened if someone where so kind to do so. i thought low end torque would be essential to get those tires smokin'
> 
> and for my friend putting down 404hp at 16 psi, how are you managing your fuel/air ratios?



This car is using AEM EMS. Everything is stock and has 114k miles on it except for tune up parts. Mods include PhatKA-T.com turbo kit, PhatKA-T.com intercooler, PhatKA-T.com fuel system, and AEM EMS. Tuning is the key. We have many dyno runs on the car from the base boost of 10psi and 305 WHP to 16 psi and 404 WHP. It has hit the streets several times at the 400 WHP level and has plenty of rubber in the wheel wells from that  We were just at the track tonight at the 12 psi level running 109 trap speeds on 93 octane. This is where we have it set up for the street and where it has been living for some time now. I would estimate the HP at 12 psi to be 320 to 330.


----------



## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

IvanAtSPRacing said:


> I would estimate the HP at 12 psi to be 320 to 330.


thats where the dude i met has his set and he put out 330 at the wheels when it was dyno'd. if i go ka-t, his setup would be the one i mimic to begin with.


----------



## augimatic (Mar 23, 2004)

I'd like to bulid a KA-T but I want to do it with a newer 240, like a 98 S14 or something, hmmmm, maybe after I get the SR in the S13 it maybe something I am gonna look into, a working KA-T that won't blow up would rock, Enonvativ Force in Torrance said that I can make up to 700 HP on a KA-T, however their issue they were having is Heat, unlike what a lot of you guys here said. Head gasket was fine but the radiator kept going.


----------



## TheNose247 (Jun 19, 2004)

i have asked this same question in many other forums...the basic understanding is if you want to drift then go with the sr but if u want to race then go with the ka.


----------



## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

TheNose247 said:


> i have asked this same question in many other forums...the basic understanding is if you want to drift then go with the sr but if u want to race then go with the ka.


where did you learn that?? 2fast2furiousforums.com???


----------



## TheNose247 (Jun 19, 2004)

vsp3c said:


> where did you learn that?? 2fast2furiousforums.com???


i asked that in the Silvia Forums, damn everyone on here is a jerk


----------



## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

TheNose247 said:


> i asked that in the Silvia Forums, damn everyone on here is a jerk


you betcha :thumbup:

im just sick of noobs worshiping the sr20det ( i used to be one ). there are also ca18det, rb20det, rb25det, ka24det which has their own pros/cons. if you want you can even drop a 2jz-gte, 13b, 20b, or a ls1 for all i care. no engine is meant for drifting and no engine is meant for racing. you can race with a sr20det and you can drift with a ka24det if you wanted to


----------



## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

enjuku racing uses an SR20 to drag race....

lots of guys i know use KA24's to drift.....

go figure....


----------



## Kelso (Apr 29, 2003)

any motor that has enough power to get the rear wheels to spin can drift. my ka-e does it fine...but my clutch is slipping bad. i dont see how the sr would have any better drifting performance. i also dont see how the ka would have any better drag racing performance.


----------



## kaptainkrollio (Jul 29, 2003)

vsp3c said:


> you betcha :thumbup:
> 
> im just sick of noobs worshiping the sr20det ( i used to be one ). there are also ca18det, rb20det, rb25det, ka24det which has their own pros/cons. if you want you can even drop a 2jz-gte, 13b, 20b, or a ls1 for all i care. no engine is meant for drifting and no engine is meant for racing. you can race with a sr20det and you can drift with a ka24det if you wanted to


 have you seen the ls1 with the 8 turbos? ot, sorry. I'd go ka-t over anything right now, basic homemade setups can be had for less than $1500 and wouldn't be that bad.


----------



## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

TheNose247 said:


> i asked that in the Silvia Forums, damn everyone on here is a jerk


You did? In every country that the Silvia/200sx is sold, the KA is considered a family car piece of shit and no one bothers building them.


----------



## s3v3rth3stars (Mar 13, 2003)

Joel said:


> You did? In every country that the Silvia/200sx is sold, the KA is considered a family car piece of shit and no one bothers building them.


hey man that hurt my feelings. the ka might not have the popularity of the sr but maybe it is for that same reason. maybe if more people like IvanATSPRRACING would support the engine for its potential it would'nt be considered such a black sheep. 

i used to own a 88 accord. that thing was 12 valve sohc 2.0. there was a shop that made them rev to like 10 grand so there is no reason why not with some valvetrain work the ka24 would not match if not over rev the sr20. 

its all a favoritism thing and id like more people to respect the potential the ka has. why do cant we support eachother's ideas rather than fighting amongst ourselves... we are all nissan on here so let's show some comradrie(sp) for our fellow tuners and their ideas


----------



## little240boy (Jan 13, 2004)

personally, i'd rather just swap in an engine (hopeing for an rb20det) because it won't have many miles on it. its going to cost me more to turbo my ka then to swap in an rb, its weird. but for you guys wanting crazy horsepower numbers and are basically rebuilding the engine, personally i think the ka would be a better choice (between sr and ka) because its a stronger engine. i've heard the block has warped on some sr's (serious cases obviously). maybe sr's are so popular, all you hear about is their negatives. either or, RB power all the way.


----------



## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

s3v3rth3stars said:


> hey man that hurt my feelings. the ka might not have the popularity of the sr but maybe it is for that same reason. maybe if more people like IvanATSPRRACING would support the engine for its potential it would'nt be considered such a black sheep.
> 
> i used to own a 88 accord. that thing was 12 valve sohc 2.0. there was a shop that made them rev to like 10 grand so there is no reason why not with some valvetrain work the ka24 would not match if not over rev the sr20.
> 
> its all a favoritism thing and id like more people to respect the potential the ka has. why do cant we support eachother's ideas rather than fighting amongst ourselves... we are all nissan on here so let's show some comradrie(sp) for our fellow tuners and their ideas


 You missed my point. In countries like mine we dont bother with turboing the KA because the SR , CA and RB are readily available. I cant believe that the KA was discussed in this context on a Silvia (Australian) forum.

More power to you on modding the KA, you do the best with what you are given. At least it will be legal eh?


----------



## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

Joel said:


> You missed my point. In countries like mine we dont bother with turboing the KA because the SR , CA and RB are readily available.


hey hey, there's no need to rub it in our faces :thumbdwn:


----------



## TheNose247 (Jun 19, 2004)

vsp3c said:


> hey hey, there's no need to rub it in our faces :thumbdwn:


hahahahaahah, where is the cheapest you can get a rb at here in the states??? besides ebay..?


----------



## s3v3rth3stars (Mar 13, 2003)

Joel said:


> You missed my point. In countries like mine we dont bother with turboing the KA because the SR , CA and RB are readily available. I cant believe that the KA was discussed in this context on a Silvia (Australian) forum.
> 
> More power to you on modding the KA, you do the best with what you are given. At least it will be legal eh?


no hard feelings my apologies :cheers: 
as for legality here in florida we have no emmissions laws!  woohoo 
so i can practically do anything


----------



## vsp3c (May 15, 2003)

TheNose247 said:


> hahahahaahah, where is the cheapest you can get a rb at here in the states??? besides ebay..?


phase2motortrend, jspec, heavythrottle.. at least they won't rip you off


----------



## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

I have built a few KA turbo engines and own one in my U13 Altima. I feel that the weakest links to the KA are the pistons and rods for a reliable turbo engine. To make a KA a screamer you should either take a JDM KA20 crank or have a billet crank made to destroke the engine because of the oversquare bore to rod ratio. The head responds very well to porting but also flows well in stock form, with the biggest gains here in higher lift cams. The cooling system requires a healthy upgrade to have an efficient and reliable racer/driver as well. 
I haven't finished the install on my MoTec M4 yet but with my new surge tank intake and secondary Nismo injectors I am confident that 500 whp on my KA24DET should be possible. Although my gear set and axles will be the next necessary upgrade.

I also believe that drifting is about chassis balance as well as suspension/wheel/tires. So for that reason I want to save a little weight and move more to the center and rear because of the SR20 being lighter than the KA but the SR's trans is beefier, thus heavier than the KA's, it shifts the weight distribution. Also with more than 300 whp the S13 seems to become overpowered for good drift control. I am going to put a SR20DET in my S13 for the sake of balance with all the regular upgrades for reliablity to support a GT25xx turbo.

My point is that whichever engine you choose whether a KA, SR, RB, CA or even VG, if it is set up correctly then you can't really go wrong. You just need to assess what the useage is going to be and how much will it be a compromise to be competitive and as a daily driver. Just my .02.

Troy


----------



## s3v3rth3stars (Mar 13, 2003)

my biggest worry is the engine management in the ka. is there anything out there that i can buy that i will not have to modify to use on the ka-t? is aem making ems for ka-t yet?


----------



## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

s3v3rth3stars said:


> my biggest worry is the engine management in the ka. is there anything out there that i can buy that i will not have to modify to use on the ka-t? is aem making ems for ka-t yet?


Yes they are or are supposed to have it out very soon. I understand one of the guys who works for AEM has a KA-T powered 240. I saw a post on it on another board a little while ago. Shoot them an email and they will let you know when for sure.

Troy


----------



## s3v3rth3stars (Mar 13, 2003)

that day will be a great day for the ka-t tuner. hopefully i can have an engine ready by the time its out.


----------

