# 1995 Nissan 200SX starter problems



## joe200sx (Jan 5, 2012)

tl;dr

Starter sounds exactly like a dying battery, but it isn't battery. Starter kept getting slower and slower until no noise when key turned. Popped clutch to start it and while engine is running a quick flip of the key to start sounds like usual grinding, so solenoid works (?). But when engine is shut off and try to restart you get no solenoid click, and sometimes a slow rrrrr rrrrr then next try is just rrrr then silence (no click).

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Unrelated but about a month ago the interior light was left on for a day and drained the battery (which is old) but I pulled it and recharged it with 10A/2A deep cycle charger.

Anyways, as it has been getting colder I notice it taking longer to start. I went to three places today with driving 10 mins in between stops, and it sounded like classic dying battery. Slower and slower starting times, also it is extra cold out (below freezing).

So I assumed it was the battery, and I coincidentally had just bought a new battery today. When I go to start it and it doesn't even crank once. Thinking I lucked out having a spare battery, I jumpered old and new battery, still nothing. So I swap battery in parking lot and still nothing. I assume maybe the new battery is run down sitting on store shelves maybe, but also notice the headlights are bright and don't dim.

So I'm pushing it in while gear to maybe move starter teeth around if solenoid is stuck in flywheel, I'm also trying to start it while rolling a little in case it is meshing problem. I can't push start it by myself because I can't mesh it into 1st gear because of really worn clutch and no hill. Finally someone helps push the car, and I pop clutch in 2nd and it starts. Drive it around to charge up new battery just in case, but starter it still dead.

Anyways, sorry for long story, but classic symptoms of bad battery when in reality the starter motor is burnt out. All I can think of is corrosion, or cold gunked up oil making it too hard to start, or motor windings are dead and solenoid or motor heats up or can't work in the cold.

Next stop is to obviously hit it with hammer, then go get a new starter. Can I put screw driver across which terminals to test it to see if it makes any noise? I also need to check the wires for good connection (voltages) and if the clutch switch works, but maybe it is going bad.

I'm confused why there is no click at all. Is it possible to be not getting enough current on the solenoid, ie,. it can't fight the return spring in the cold (too stiff, windings need more current). 

I also simplified the wiring diagram for future reference for manual cars.


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## joe200sx (Jan 5, 2012)

From the FWD I believe the solenoid shorts a plate so the starter motor draws power straight from the battery connection on the back of the starter. The diagrams are different where the clutch switch is only in the path of the relay.










ie. when you activate starter relay, the red path shows the solenoid current which then shorts terminals 1 & 2 and the starter motor is connected straight to the battery (green path). 

If the solenoid is bad, or if the relay has resistance, or the terminals are corroded and the solenoid plate never fully makes contact then the motor is only driven through the wiring that goes from battery through the firewall and ignition and starter relay. That's my theory. If the flywheel isn't fully engaged there is a lesser path, so your motor might be ok, but the solenoid isn't making full contact.

This also explains if you have a bad starter relay, or clutch switch that isn't fully contacting, you could get bouncing/fluttering on the voltage to the solenoid and never make a good contact to battery.

The clicking noise with a low battery would be from an easily moving solenoid that moves the plunger/plate with only a little current, but if the starter motor is either bad/shorted or the battery has no CCA, the plunger connects the green path and a huge current passes on green and the battery voltage drops. When the voltage/current on the red path is below what the solenoid needs, the plunger/plate opens and the battery recovers until it is a high enough voltage to repeat. (Unless I'm an idiot and it has to do with a clutch/ planetary gears in the starter)

(wonder if you wire up a relay straight to back of starter motor (#2), the only risk is spinning the starter when it isn't fully extended and chewing up the flywheel)


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

Sounds to me like a case of rotten battery cables.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

I've replaced a number of starters on mid-90's Sentras for slow crank speed (and that was back before 2003 when I left Nissan, so, to me, it sounds like a bad starter. Of course, as jdg suggests, badly corroded battery cables can definitely cause similar symptoms, so inspecting the cables for clean connections and checking resistance through the cables with an ohmmeter are part of the diagnostics to determine if the starter is bad or not. If you want to bypass the relay and/or clutch switch for testing purposes, you can go under the car, unplug the harness connector for the signal wire to the starter solenoid and apply battery voltage to it to see if the solenoid energizes and the starter operates. You can also check for power at the harness side of that circuit to see if it exists when the key is turned to "start" and the clutch is depressed (obviously you'll need a second person to do this). The starter can also be removed and tested by most major parts stores.


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## joe200sx (Jan 5, 2012)

Just to follow up, I slapped a screw driver on the starter and it made a pathetic rrrrrr. I banged on the motor and solenoid a few times and it started working, but still kinda slowly. Well That got about three more starts out of it. 

I also cleaned the battery cables up.

ALso, interestingly, after it wouldn't start again and I push started the car, just out of curiosity I flicked key into start with engine running and no grinding even. So the solenoid is totally shot. But I'm pretty sure the motor isn't any better.


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

"slapped a screwdriver on the starter"
You mean you hit the starter with a screwdriver?
Go big or go home!
Hit it with a metal hammer!!! And not just once...wail on it for awhile! You ain't gonna hurt unless you wanna start going ballistic on it with a 5 lbs BFH 
If the situation improves, yep, then I think you're looking at swapping out the starter.


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## joe200sx (Jan 5, 2012)

i meant shorting the terminals with a screwdriver.

for the record, the bad starter tested OK on the parts store tester (at 23 amps). A new (rebuilt) starter is around 65 amps on their tester.

I have no idea why they "test" starters when all it does is spin it with no load, if you have it out, you can do that yourself with jumper cables and one aligator clip. Worthless test.

I forgot it should start that quickly with the new starter.


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

Problem with testing the starter motor yourself is that starter motors are "series wound" meaning that they'll spin faster and faster and faster until they self-destruct...(assuming there's no friction from the bearings and such)... They can and will explode on you! It's a fun project...fully charged 12v battery, starter motor, and a big ol' hold down clamp in the back yard. Just remember to duck!
Usually those starter motor checkers are just continuity checkers, looking for a dead solenoid, open windings in the motor, shorted windings, etc. Can't really tell what shape the brushes are in, how bad the bushings/bearings are, etc.


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