# Brake line replacement



## Campbell (Oct 6, 2002)

Boy I have had a lot of annoying things this week! on my 87 Sentra coupe the brake line that runs across the rear of the car for the right rear brake rusted through at the little junction box in the middle of the line running across. This line is completely shot and I need to replace it, I traced it back and it seems to be a coninuous line all the way to the front!! Has anyone changed one of these before? will I need to run a new line from the front? is that little junction some kind of modulator or just a junction? thanks


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2002)

Man.. Salt on the roads should be illegal. Sorry to hear about your problems. Might just be worth taking that to a shop to have the new lines made.


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

it can cost from 40$ to 350 depends on the lengh, the purging (if they have to change a cylindre) and where it goes, I.e on top of fuel tank ect....


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## Campbell (Oct 6, 2002)

I am going to try to run the line myself. I just need to figure out what the fittings are and buy the brake line. I may run the new line down the passenger side of the car rather than the drivers side and have to cross over. Has anyone done it? thanks


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

those are bubble flange... (?if i remember correctly) didnt do it but once i changed FRW wich was kindda tricky to get the good lengh of premade lines... i had to take 2 line with a fitting... but surely you ll be able to do it this way... make sure it stay out of the way of the tranny linkage and such


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Campbell said:


> *Boy I have had a lot of annoying things this week! on my 87 Sentra coupe the brake line that runs across the rear of the car for the right rear brake rusted through at the little junction box in the middle of the line running across. This line is completely shot and I need to replace it, I traced it back and it seems to be a coninuous line all the way to the front!! Has anyone changed one of these before? will I need to run a new line from the front? is that little junction some kind of modulator or just a junction? thanks *


 ***** It is just a junction block, not a modulator. Your local auto store has the lengths of 3/16" brake line you'll need. Ask for the Japanese metric threaded ones. They are not the bubble flare type, just regular double flared. I have replaced every bit of the lines [brake and fuel] on my 4WD B12. It was a dirty arduous task at best. But I plan to keep the car, [and drive it fast!], so I'll do whatever it takes to make it right.


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## Campbell (Oct 6, 2002)

Great blownb310! just the info I needed! I will let you know how it goes. thanks


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## Campbell (Oct 6, 2002)

Boy, changing these lines are a job!! got the passenger rear line from the front to rear changed.. then the drivers rear line started leaking!! I will work on replacing it front to back tomorrow. I will be glad to be done with this. later


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2002)

hehehe, hence the reason I recommended the shop. Glad to hear you got the first half done though.


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## Campbell (Oct 6, 2002)

I finished up the drivers side, only took 30 minutes to do since I learned how to do it on the passenger side!! great pedal pressure now and really, it wasn't that tough to do, just tedious. thanks for your help.


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

Campbell said:


> Boy, changing these lines are a job!! got the passenger rear line from the front to rear changed.. then the drivers rear line started leaking!! I will work on replacing it front to back tomorrow. I will be glad to be done with this. later


Any tips you'd like to give to someone who might have to replace one or both brake lines? I just found that my line(s) are leaking where they are exposed under the car.


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

Go to the ends of the lines and start spraying them with Liquid Wrench or PB blaster a few days before you start. Make sure you get a set of line wrenches to tighten the new lines so you don't tear them up. and i'd also invest in a handheld tubing bender, can be had for little dollars and does a nice job of bending without worrying about kinks. 

If you can remove the old lines and use them as a guide to bend the new ones it makes things easier. Brake lines are somewhat forgiving and you can tweak them a little by hand as you go as long as your careful. It just takes some patience and it is not a very fun job... Good Luck.


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

astreamk1 said:


> Go to the ends of the lines and start spraying them with Liquid Wrench or PB blaster a few days before you start. Make sure you get a set of line wrenches to tighten the new lines so you don't tear them up. and i'd also invest in a handheld tubing bender, can be had for little dollars and does a nice job of bending without worrying about kinks.
> 
> If you can remove the old lines and use them as a guide to bend the new ones it makes things easier. Brake lines are somewhat forgiving and you can tweak them a little by hand as you go as long as your careful. It just takes some patience and it is not a very fun job... Good Luck.


Liquid Wrench, Line wrenches, tubing bender - got it.

Any particular size wrenches I need, or would my local parts store know all this?

Thanks for the advice!


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

well, depending on the lines you buy will determine what wrench you need. Most of the time they can be bought as a set of 3 wrenches and will include everything you need. just make sure they are metric. depending how rusty your car is, you may need to remove the old lines via vise grips....

the old lines either come off real easy, or you end up twisting them off and breaking the old line.


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

astreamk1 said:


> well, depending on the lines you buy will determine what wrench you need. Most of the time they can be bought as a set of 3 wrenches and will include everything you need. just make sure they are metric. depending how rusty your car is, you may need to remove the old lines via vise grips....
> 
> the old lines either come off real easy, or you end up twisting them off and breaking the old line.


OK, so once I get the old lines off, then I have the tubing, is this the point where I "flare" the lines?

Hmm... off to google "replacing brake lines"


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

MShorten said:


> OK, so once I get the old lines off, then I have the tubing, is this the point where I "flare" the lines?
> 
> Hmm... off to google "replacing brake lines"


No, you shouldn't have to flare anything really. the new lines come in different lengths and already are flared and come with fittings attached. the most you should have to do is buy some unions to connect the different lengths of lines. 

take the whole old line off, figure out how many feet you need end to end and buy the lengths accordingly. You will need a union fitting for where each peice meets. just make sure you take one end of your old line with you to make sure the new lines have the same type of flare on them. It's a time consuming job, but not terribly complicated. Make sure you get plenty of new fluid too. The worst part of the job will probably be getting the old stuff removed and ready to start installing the new tubing.


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## B11sleeper (Oct 15, 2003)

i've replaced brake lines before, it's not really fun. If you're lucky, then you will be able to use one of the standard pre flared lengths. If you want to have everything perfect then you might want to cut down pre-flared lines to the exact length.

i've had bad luck unscrewing old flares, personally, if i can avoid unscrewing it i do, vice grips are a good idea, they won't wreck the flare nearly as bad as a flare wrench will.

some people have problems bending the brake tubing, i just bent mine by hand, sometimes using a pice of pipe or a can to do radiuses. 


the worst part is getting the angle at the end of the tuging right so it screws in easily and doesn't wreck the threaded part it goes to, like a wheel cylinder. ( been dumb and wrecked wheel cylinders this way before... )


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

astreamk1 said:


> No, you shouldn't have to flare anything really. the new lines come in different lengths and already are flared and come with fittings attached. the most you should have to do is buy some unions to connect the different lengths of lines.
> 
> take the whole old line off, figure out how many feet you need end to end and buy the lengths accordingly. You will need a union fitting for where each peice meets. just make sure you take one end of your old line with you to make sure the new lines have the same type of flare on them. It's a time consuming job, but not terribly complicated. Make sure you get plenty of new fluid too. The worst part of the job will probably be getting the old stuff removed and ready to start installing the new tubing.


OK, now that I've reread your message and looked under the car (91 Sentra) your post makes sense. I am going to have to take the entire line off, aren't I? From looking at it, it seems to be one continuous line with some wierd twists and turns. There's one part that goes under the car with this "cage" over it and the other lines. Looks like a sonuvagun to have to pull off. 

So pull off all the clamps, the "cage", find the ends where they connect, get the replacement line, bend, attach union fittings. Yea... looks like a nasty job.

Is that about it?

Regards,
Michael


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

MShorten said:


> OK, now that I've reread your message and looked under the car (91 Sentra) your post makes sense. I am going to have to take the entire line off, aren't I? From looking at it, it seems to be one continuous line with some wierd twists and turns. There's one part that goes under the car with this "cage" over it and the other lines. Looks like a sonuvagun to have to pull off.
> 
> So pull off all the clamps, the "cage", find the ends where they connect, get the replacement line, bend, attach union fittings. Yea... looks like a nasty job.
> 
> ...


Yeah, you have about got it. It will be one continuous line. the last one I did, I cut the old line right where it come down under the car from the master cylinder and starts along the floorpan. i then took that piece and bent my first line to come from the master cylinder down to the floor pan. That was the toughest part. at least running along the floorboards you can kinda bend it by hand to get it to fit better as you go. only other thing is you will have to bleed the brakes really good once your done.


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

astreamk1 said:


> Yeah, you have about got it. It will be one continuous line. the last one I did, I cut the old line right where it come down under the car from the master cylinder and starts along the floorpan. i then took that piece and bent my first line to come from the master cylinder down to the floor pan. That was the toughest part. at least running along the floorboards you can kinda bend it by hand to get it to fit better as you go. only other thing is you will have to bleed the brakes really good once your done.


Why did you cut it? Did it make it easier to remove that way or did you attach the new line to where you had cut the old line?


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

yes, I cut it to make it easier to remove without damaging the old line too badly so I had a good guide to work from for bending the new one. when I did mine, I replaced the entire line from front to back.


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

astreamk1 said:


> yes, I cut it to make it easier to remove without damaging the old line too badly so I had a good guide to work from for bending the new one. when I did mine, I replaced the entire line from front to back.


Well, thanks for all of your advice, I've printed it out and we're gonna get started on it tonight. Should be interesting!


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

astreamk1 said:


> yes, I cut it to make it easier to remove without damaging the old line too badly so I had a good guide to work from for bending the new one. when I did mine, I replaced the entire line from front to back.


Appreciate your help - the instructions you gave me were fantastic and helped me out greatly! But - like anything else - two steps forward, one step back.

Got the lines installed finally, after working through an issue with the auto parts place selling me SAE unions for a metric line. Finding metric unions was a pain.

Unfortunately, the bleeding part didn't go well. In Illinois, there's a lot of salt and rain/snow - so the bleeder screws are rusted into the cylinders. I used a ton of PB and hammer tapping and started to move one... only to snap it.

A call to my mechanic friend gave me the "drip" method of bleeding brakes, and I seem to have fluid going to thru the lines now, took care of all the leaks through tightening unions. 

However, the brakes still do not seem right. When the car is not turned on, I have more pressure on the pedal than when it's started. I get braking, but the pedal travels a LOT before getting stiff and braking. 

My mechanic friend tells me that there could be other things going on - brakes need adjusted, worn rear drums, etc. My frustration level is high.

So my questions now, and I think I'm going to start a new thread on this possibly:
- How do I remove/loosen rusted bleed screws without snapping them?
- Can I drill out the snapped screw without destroying the rear drum cylinder or leaving metal shavings inside when I am removing the screw
- How can I troubleshoot or what would be causing the conditions of less pressure on the brake pedal when car is started, and the long travel?


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

Glad to hear you got the lines in, that is always the crappy part of the job. As far as your bleeder problems, if your are carefull, you should be able to drill out the bleeder at bit and use an easy out to try to remove the broken bleeder screws. I wouldn't worry too much about the metal shavings, you should be able to get those out as you work, they really can't go anywhere.

I have never really had much luck with stuff like that once it is frozen. for the cost and time involved, you might want to look into just buying another wheel cylinder. if you didn't get the bleeder out, you definitely won't be able to bleed the system properly, thus your brakes will not work right. adjustment could be part of your problem, but more than likely they are not bled. 

for the pedal going down when you start the car, that is pretty normal. your just feeling the effects of the vacuum booster, like I said, if the pedal is going down more than normal, you've probably still got air in the line. keep us posted. :thumbup:


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

astreamk1 said:


> As far as your bleeder problems, if your are carefull, you should be able to drill out the bleeder at bit and use an easy out to try to remove the broken bleeder screws. I wouldn't worry too much about the metal shavings, you should be able to get those out as you work, they really can't go anywhere.
> 
> I have never really had much luck with stuff like that once it is frozen. for the cost and time involved, you might want to look into just buying another wheel cylinder.


My mechanic friend mentioned about using a propane torch to possibly unfreeze them. Ever heard of that?

He also said that if I have never replaced cylinders before, it would be a hard job. Is it hard? I'll do a search on that.

Thanks for the continued advice!
Regards,
Michael


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

My only concern with using heat on a wheel cylinder is that the seals , or cups in the wheel cylinder itself are made of rubber, if you apply too much heat, you could melt or distort that rubber and the wheel cylinder will end up failing anyways. changing a wheel cylinder is really not that bad, once the line is out, you've got 2 small bolts holding it in. the only tricky part is taking care to put all of the components (springs, levers, shoes) on the backing plate back together properly. if you jack the back of the car up, remove both drums while your working, you can always use the other side of the car for reference if your not sure the way something goes back together. 

btw, get yourself a couple of cans of brake cleaner while your at it. cleaning everything prior to disassembly makes your life a whole lot easier.


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

astreamk1 said:


> changing a wheel cylinder is really not that bad, once the line is out, you've got 2 small bolts holding it in. the only tricky part is taking care to put all of the components (springs, levers, shoes) on the backing plate back together properly. if you jack the back of the car up, remove both drums while your working, you can always use the other side of the car for reference if your not sure the way something goes back together.
> 
> btw, get yourself a couple of cans of brake cleaner while your at it. cleaning everything prior to disassembly makes your life a whole lot easier.


Well, just wanted to thank you (again) for the help. I got the old cylinder out and didn't have to do anything but pop it out and slide the new one in, nothing else moved! LOL - wonder if that's a bad sign 

In fact, it was so darned easy, I'm going to just replace the other one rather than try and unfreeze the darn bleeder screw. Definitely a LOT easier especially if it goes as easy as the driver side replacement. 

Only problem I had was this excessively stiff brake line going from the flex line to the cylinder, just could not get it lined up right and ended up kinking it. Grr. Always something! I'm going to get the more flexible replacement steel line tonight and git-r-done. Bleed and go. 

I may revisit this whole brake subject in a few weeks, an inspection showed that the brake shoes are not wearing evenly and they looked bad! One was crumbling a bit at the top. Not a good sign. I also am probably not going to be able to unfreeze the front bleeder screws, so I will probably have to do the "replacement" route for the front calipers. Ugh. Never ends, does it.

Thanks again... owe ya one!


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

If you end up replacing the rear shoes, you might as well get new hardware too. It is usually availible in an inexpensive kit that gives you all new springs/pins. Everytime I don't buy a new kit, something breaks on me half way through the job and I end up having to make a parts run...  

It's all just part of the "Fun" of owning a 15 year old car .... That's why we are all here... :cheers:


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

astreamk1 said:


> If you end up replacing the rear shoes, you might as well get new hardware too. It is usually availible in an inexpensive kit that gives you all new springs/pins. Everytime I don't buy a new kit, something breaks on me half way through the job and I end up having to make a parts run...
> 
> It's all just part of the "Fun" of owning a 15 year old car .... That's why we are all here... :cheers:


Well, after a couple of weeks of off and on brake line replacement, screwing with the bleeders, replacing both wheel cylinders and *finally* unfreezing the front caliper bleeders, the brakes work.

:banana:

Let me tell you, there is nothing better than finally overcoming some adversity and setbacks. Even last night, the bolts broke off the old wheel cylinder, had to jimmy it out - but after two rounds of bleeding, I have brakes. Now on to racing!

Thanks again for your help, could not have done it without your advice and suggestions.


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

Glad to hear you can stop again.  that's always a bonus.

it's nice to go through all of that work and have some tangible results. plus you feel better knowing exactly what was done to your car. 

I would rather spend a week figuring it out for myself, even if it means doing it multiple tmes than letting someone else touch it. Mine will be up for insp in the next month, looks like I'll be putting the old wheels back on again for a day....  


:cheers:


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

astreamk1 said:


> looks like I'll be putting the old wheels back on again for a day....
> 
> 
> :cheers:


??? Out here we don't have inspections but we do have DEQ. Lot's of dangerous jalopys on the road. What do the wheels have to do with inspection?


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

part of our annual inspection requires them to pull the wheels to check the brakes and such. I have brand new wheels and lug nuts and I don't want everything all scratched up and chipped, so I'll throw the steel wheels back on for the day until I get it home and I can put the good wheels on myself. :thumbup:


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

astreamk1 said:


> part of our annual inspection requires them to pull the wheels to check the brakes and such. I have brand new wheels and lug nuts and I don't want everything all scratched up and chipped, so I'll throw the steel wheels back on for the day until I get it home and I can put the good wheels on myself. :thumbup:


Ahhhh, you very smart man. I quit my nearby mega tire dealer (Les Schwab) cuz every time I go in they say 30 min that turns into 2 hrs. Then I get my rig(s) back and the custom chrome valve caps are gone - every time. Last time I brought the durango in they put crappy old lug nuts on ONE of the factory mags. Then had the nerve to try to say I was being less than honest. They also cranked my lug nuts down so tight I had to use a breaker bar to loosen them. They're supposed to torque them. BTW my rotors got warped and I had to replace them at $125ea (upgraded). Not trying to slam the company, they have good products and superior service. Just beware of the one on 158th/Walker. :thumbdwn:


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## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

I don't completely blame the technicians either here. These local tire distributors always overbook themselves and those guys are still putting tires on at 9:15 pm when the store closed at 9 pm. Seems like they are always in a rush. The last time I went there (NTB) was to get my snow tires taken off and my good weather tires back on. Turned out that they put both tires on the rims backwards. Then when I called them on it, they blamed it on the fact that they were tires they didn't sell. Funny thing is, on the side of the tire facing out, there was big print saying "THIS SIDE IN" .  

I refuse to use an impact either. they ALWAYS tear up your nuts no matter what..... :balls:


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## gordonb1 (Nov 7, 2005)

Campbell said:


> Boy, changing these lines are a job!! got the passenger rear line from the front to rear changed.. then the drivers rear line started leaking!! I will work on replacing it front to back tomorrow. I will be glad to be done with this. later


Road salt has also rotted my B12's lines. I have two brake and three fuel lines to replace. This thread and my own poking around foreshadow the fun I'm going to have.

I've removed a few of the muti-line nylon brakets which keep the lines separate and parallel; some of the rusted bolts sheared off. Do you recommend keeping these brackets and bending all the tubes to conform? And what does one do about the rusted bolt ends still stuck in the floor pan? - Drill out and replace with a self-tapping bolt and some caulking?
Is it easier to buy the brake line in a roll and fit/flare it, or to buy the prefitted lengths? 

Related advice would be appreciated.
Thanks, Gordon


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## Campbell (Oct 6, 2002)

Gordon,

I wouldn't bother with any of the old lines, brackets or fittings. Just measure how long it is from the junction box on the engine firewall near the steering column back to your calipers or rear brake cylinders. Get sections of Japanese thread bendable 3/16 brake line from Autozone or any of the parts stores and run a whole new line. Just use plastic ties to attach the new line to your old ones. The time you spend trying to splice your old lines or even remove them is a waste. I tried that and quickly realized I was wasting my time. I have also had the fuel line rust but since mine is a carb 1.6 I just spliced fuel line hose in where the metal line was rusty (carb fuel pressure is only 3 or 4 lbs). It has worked fine. The brake lines are a pain, working with all new lines makes it a lot easier to do. 

good luck


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

gordonb1 said:


> Road salt has also rotted my B12's lines. I have two brake and three fuel lines to replace. This thread and my own poking around foreshadow the fun I'm going to have.
> 
> I've removed a few of the muti-line nylon brakets which keep the lines separate and parallel; some of the rusted bolts sheared off. Do you recommend keeping these brackets and bending all the tubes to conform? And what does one do about the rusted bolt ends still stuck in the floor pan? - Drill out and replace with a self-tapping bolt and some caulking?
> Is it easier to buy the brake line in a roll and fit/flare it, or to buy the prefitted lengths?


I just bought a few lengths of prefabbed, preflared lines, and the unions to join them together. I kept the majority of brackets and used some of those clamp brackets with the rubber on the edges - for pipes or cables, IIRC. This was a race car, so I didn't have to be too pretty. If you aren't going to use the space or hole, might as well leave the old bolts there.

Good luck. This was one of the nastiest jobs I've done on a vehicle.

And strange... my post was like 2 years old. I've since raced and totaled my B13 short track racer - in fact, moved up to V8s and heavy duty stock car racing. Heh. Nice to see that the forum is still alive and kicking - I have dreams of finding a nice good shape B13 SER and modding that baby up...

Michael Shorten
S&T Racing (http://www.sandtracing.com)


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