# KA24DET or SR20DET best choice for car



## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

I am researching to find the best motor swap. I am trying to stick with 4 bangers only. I want to get the best motor for the turbo setup. I dont think I'll be revving past 6k rpm. It would be nice to go to 8K, but really not needed. I need a good hp and torque range. I can start with non turbo blocks and work in my own turbo systems and EFI control, not a problem. What would be a good motor to get atleast 250-300 hp/trq from and still be reliable? It will be connected to a 5 speed.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

The SR and KA are both good choices. The KA would have more torque after the boost because of the larger displacement but the SR would be cheaper to get to 250 to 300HP.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

Is the performance parts cheaper for the the SR20DE? I would be designing my own intake and EFI system, also my own exhaust for the turbo config. So I can tune those for anything. But as far as component reliability, would the stock components on the ka or sr be able to handle it? What compnents would be cheaper? Thanks for any help.
Chris


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

I think the internals for the KA are 300HP someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

www.ka-t.org

there's some KA's running more than 300hp.

on another forum I saw that the stock KA rod bent finally at like 500hp something...


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

If I can stick with stock internals and hit 300hp while using for a daily, that is my goal. As long as it doesn't make it a 30 second winner, then rebuild time is here. I know the big 4's have balance issues and cant reach the highest rpm. If I were to get a KA24DE and a SR20DE and install my turbo/injector system. Upgrade them side by side and reach 300hp. Which would be the best way for a daily?


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

The KA would definately have more torque.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

I wouldn't spin it past 6k very much, maybe just to tap it that high for the shift points. But I need to dyno it to do that calculation first. Thats what I was thinking, definitely go for the KA24DE then. I love small motors that can rev and deliver tons of torque, that probably why my Ford has a 5.0 in it, and not a big block. Thats great if the stock bottom end of a KA can handle 300-500hp, then my only concern is the top end. I would need to get new uprated cams for sure and a port/polish on the head. Anything else I should be considering? I have a 280Z 5 speed in my 510 with the L20B. How would I need to adapt the KA24 to fit that tranny or what tranny/bell shall I use?


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## Chillboy (Oct 8, 2003)

http://www.phatka-t.com/

Here's a link to some KA specialists. They are getting 500whp off a built KA.
I don't know the shop, just stumbled on the link, but worth a look.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

Thank for the site. Does anybody have any info on a KA24DE turbo on the specs of the hp and torque. I have stuff for the SR20DET, but nothing on the KA24DE with added turbo.


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## alexinpg (Oct 5, 2004)

www.ka-t.org is your friend for these questions. Tons of answers for almost every set up you could possibly imagine.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

Looking it over a bit, KA24DET with no heavy mods puts about 210-230rwHP with 8psi. Thats not too bad at all. They say they have an engine running at 560rwHP with stock components, but has an engine management system and highly tuned EFI. Thats freekin nuts. I thought my L20B was kicking ass at 130hp. Also I thought my 5.0 with 300hp was cool. The potential is amazing.


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## inertial drift (Feb 26, 2005)

the KA engine is a one of the Nissan truck. basically it's a truck engine. back then japan were debating either to drop the SR or KA. but it was unpopular back then to have turbos or anything. so then they decided to drop the KA engine as a stock. (correct me if i'm wrong, i read it off the net. it was a japanese article translated to english which was quite interesting) and i think KA performance parts are cheaper than the SR. KA has more torque than the SR. but i will go SR.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

What would make you go SR? If you can get more hp and torque at a cheaper cost, what more reason to go for the KA. I'm trying to justify the SR/KA fight is all, hehe. I'd sacrifice top end hp for low-mid torque anyday. Thats the stuff that holds your @ss to the seat. Have you ever been in a car where you floor the thing, and try to touch the dash but you cant? I have, and that's all torque


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## inertial drift (Feb 26, 2005)

for what i do i dont need that much torque.

i'm a autocross guy and rally type. it's all about time attack. =)


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## SVP5TEN (Apr 27, 2004)

510Mods said:


> What would make you go SR? If you can get more hp and torque at a cheaper cost, what more reason to go for the KA. I'm trying to justify the SR/KA fight is all, hehe. I'd sacrifice top end hp for low-mid torque anyday. Thats the stuff that holds your @ss to the seat. Have you ever been in a car where you floor the thing, and try to touch the dash but you cant? I have, and that's all torque


either the ka or the sr you could make 250- 300 whp. but its all up to personal preference. yes the ka would produce alot of torque but has any looked at the stock specs of the sr?. 205 hp at 6000 rpm and 203 torque at 4000 rpm. i think the sr is still a great competitor. but raising the boost to 10-15 psi on a stock sr will get you to about 250 hp. anything past 10-15 boost your working things a little harder and you still wont gain much. but you as a fabricator you can cut cost on a lot of things. i would go with the sr.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

For arguments sake here....With more torque you can get better times all around....run larger tires, higher gears, punchier excel, faster gear change rpm recovery, wider rpm range, higher speeds. If you harness that torque the right way and get it to the ground, its all gravy after that. I admit to being a Ford V-8 guy. Early 289ci motors are high revving monsters, just like the datsuns. 500hp at 8k rpm is easy. But if you cant get that to the road, might as well be a Geo Metro engine in there. Another quick example....salt flat racers....reach 200 mph easily cause they have higher gears in it. Motors are torque monsters 500-600ft/lbs, but geared so high they only need to rev to 7000rpm. The torque keeps the motor from lagging in highway gears. Sorry for that let go, wish I had a classroom set up. easier to show it.


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## SVP5TEN (Apr 27, 2004)

510Mods said:


> For arguments sake here....With more torque you can get better times all around....run larger tires, higher gears, punchier excel, faster gear change rpm recovery, wider rpm range, higher speeds. If you harness that torque the right way and get it to the ground, its all gravy after that. I admit to being a Ford V-8 guy. Early 289ci motors are high revving monsters, just like the datsuns. 500hp at 8k rpm is easy. But if you cant get that to the road, might as well be a Geo Metro engine in there. Another quick example....salt flat racers....reach 200 mph easily cause they have higher gears in it. Motors are torque monsters 500-600ft/lbs, but geared so high they only need to rev to 7000rpm. The torque keeps the motor from lagging in highway gears. Sorry for that let go, wish I had a classroom set up. easier to show it.


you can take any engine and do what you want with it. it just comes down to r&d. you can have a very torqy engine that tachs out at 4500-5000 rpm or one that rides all the way up to 18000 rpm. it just depends at what you want and what its for.if you look at the numbers i posted last about the sr the torque and horsepower output is nearly identical.but other wise its like i said in the beggining. it comes down to personal preference.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

Your right about personal preference, but like so many other things it doesn't make it the best choice. Its like steak, you like it and it tastes good and recommend it to all your friends. Then a person comes up to you and says your steak is not the best and to try another one. You resist cause of the knowledge you posses about the other and you know it taste good. Then you finally get over yourself and try it, then never look back cause "it is better". I used to be a V-8 guy, until I bought my first datsun 620 with an L18. Loved that it had power to pass other cars up the hills without lag. Its all metal and numbers to me bro.


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## SVP5TEN (Apr 27, 2004)

510Mods said:


> Your right about personal preference, but like so many other things it doesn't make it the best choice. Its like steak, you like it and it tastes good and recommend it to all your friends. Then a person comes up to you and says your steak is not the best and to try another one. You resist cause of the knowledge you posses about the other and you know it taste good. Then you finally get over yourself and try it, then never look back cause "it is better". I used to be a V-8 guy, until I bought my first datsun 620 with an L18. Loved that it had power to pass other cars up the hills without lag. Its all metal and numbers to me bro.


funny. i still think my steak is better. hahaha. how bout this. it goes to personal preference until proven different. and to tell you the truth it is pointless to try and debate about it. i know which route im going to take, you may be going the same way or you may be going another route. the knowledge is out there. its all theory and r&d to me bro.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

Cut a 5.0 in half and you get a 2.5L 4 banger. Take any V-8, and pull the intake valves from 2 cylinders and block them off. Now you have a good gasser v-6. Theres alittle more too it then that, but in the end the its all the same. R&D is for the smart person. Inventors keep the world thinking. Free piston engine? Turbine Collector Engine, Tesla Steam motor, LoudMouth motor, or my own design for a camless engine. And yes, I have cut a 5.0 in half and made my own components for a 2.5. Like I said its all done, and is just numbers that fit together. Just have to find the right combo. Personal preference is a nice pair of words for "stubborn" and "closed minded". I work as R&D for elevators.


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## SVP5TEN (Apr 27, 2004)

510Mods said:


> Cut a 5.0 in half and you get a 2.5L 4 banger. Take any V-8, and pull the intake valves from 2 cylinders and block them off. Now you have a good gasser v-6. Theres alittle more too it then that, but in the end the its all the same. R&D is for the smart person. Inventors keep the world thinking. Free piston engine? Turbine Collector Engine, Tesla Steam motor, LoudMouth motor, or my own design for a camless engine. And yes, I have cut a 5.0 in half and made my own components for a 2.5. Like I said its all done, and is just numbers that fit together. Just have to find the right combo. Personal preference is a nice pair of words for "stubborn" and "closed minded". I work as R&D for elevators.


i can only see this turning into an arugument. haha. forgive me if i have taken it a little further. i can see your point clearly. its also clear to me that your saying something that im not. i have my personal reasons of why i chose this particular engine to start with. its for competition purposes. you were looking for some help and guidance to which way you wanted to go. i threw in my 2 cents. and i will just keep it at that. like i said before. a person with your ability and knowledge, that not to many people have incuding my self, you can go along way with either engine. i dont claim to know everything, if i dont know what im talking about i wont talk. its as simple as that. you know what your looking for you just have to make a decision. good luck.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

No argument at all bro  I wasn't upset while replyiing one bit. Its great to just talk, no beating around the bush, man to man talking. Thats usually when the good stuff comes out, hehe. I'm hard on these questions like this I suppose and I appologize to anyway who takes it the wrong way. I just cant see going smaller is better, on motors that can operate at identicle rpms with the KA24 having more output potential. I emphasize this post cause I dont want a v-6 or v-8 in the 510. I would like to stay with a 4 bore Nissan, with high power dependabilty. I have alot of SR20's to choose here ready for me, but if there is any doubt that the KA24 is better I will do it. Now the only KA I have only seen so far is the KA24E, I want the DOHC of course. So I have to search twice as hard. I have all the materials to fab my own induction, exhaust, turbo, and laptop controlled EFI/ECU parts. I'm still stuck with KA24DE or SR20DE. And I;m sure many out there are too, but they go for the SR20DE(t) cause its easier and alot of others have it or suggest it. I guess I'm a hard @ss.


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## SVP5TEN (Apr 27, 2004)

510Mods said:


> No argument at all bro  I wasn't upset while replyiing one bit. Its great to just talk, no beating around the bush, man to man talking. Thats usually when the good stuff comes out, hehe. I'm hard on these questions like this I suppose and I appologize to anyway who takes it the wrong way. I just cant see going smaller is better, on motors that can operate at identicle rpms with the KA24 having more output potential. I emphasize this post cause I dont want a v-6 or v-8 in the 510. I would like to stay with a 4 bore Nissan, with high power dependabilty. I have alot of SR20's to choose here ready for me, but if there is any doubt that the KA24 is better I will do it. Now that motor I have only seen a KA24E, I want the DOHC of course. So I have to search twice as hard. I have all the materials to fab my own induction, turbo, and laptop controlled EFI/ECU parts. I'm still stuck with KA24DE or SR20DE. And I;m sure many out there are too, but they go for the SR20 cause its easier and alot of other have it or suggest it. I guess I'm a hard @ss.


its funny you say that you got alot of sr20's to choose from. cause i got a ka24de sitting at my shop. willing to do some trading?. its good to have some straight up tech talk. i was on the same boat as you are right now. i know i need an sr20 because now nasa pro racing is letting sr20 powered 510's race in the se-r cup. and thats where i want to be.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

How is the KA you have? complete, used, needs rebuild? The one I have access to is at the yard I go to. She works there and is holding it for me. I still have to pay for it, but its mine until I decide not to get it. They have a KA24E, but I want to grab a DE block for sure. There are more SR20's but this one is like new. The tranny is bad.

Ok, I see what you mean about the engine choice now. What rules are for engines? nothing above 2.0L? I've always wanted to check the rules, never got to it though. would you be able to get 300+ hp/tq from the SR20 easier? assuming with my turbo and induction setup installed. Mostly my racing is for import drags, 1/4mi track also, if I failed to mention that before. I have the L20B and 280Z 5 speed in there right now. What would I have to do with the trans to make the SR20 bolt up and or the KA24?


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## SVP5TEN (Apr 27, 2004)

510Mods said:


> How is the KA you have? complete, used, needs rebuild? The one I have access to is at the yard I go to. She works there and is holding it for me. I still have to pay for it, but its mine until I decide not to get it. They have a KA24E, but I want to grab a DE block for sure. There are more SR20's but this one is like new. The tranny is bad.
> 
> Ok, I see what you mean about the engine choice now. What rules are for engines? nothing above 2.0L? I've always wanted to check the rules, never got to it though. would you be able to get 300+ hp/tq from the SR20 easier? assuming with my turbo and induction setup installed. Mostly my racing is for import drags, 1/4mi track also, if I failed to mention that before. I have the L20B and 280Z 5 speed in there right now. What would I have to do with the trans to make the SR20 bolt up and or the KA24?


sorry man i thought i had a DE but i just got an E. as far as going with the rules for the srx class, x meaning extreme. there are no limitations. and as mike put it , " build away!". from what i understand some of the srx guys are running stock bottom ends and heads with a few items to get them to the 300 hp mark. now for the transmissions, just make a custom transmission crossmember. you would have to get a shortend driveshaft also. or just custom it. im interested in the sr engines you have access to also. pm me for some prices.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

So if I pulled my L20B and fabbed up the oil pan, crossmember, and engine mounts for the KA24DE. It will bolt right up to the 280 5 Speed? Will I need to use the stock KA clutch or the L20B clutch? I will pm you asap, just didn't have time to think yet.


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## SVP5TEN (Apr 27, 2004)

510Mods said:


> So if I pulled my L20B and fabbed up the oil pan, crossmember, and engine mounts for the KA24DE. It will bolt right up to the 280 5 Speed? Will I need to use the stock KA clutch or the L20B clutch? I will pm you asap, just didn't have time to think yet.


it will not bolt right up to the 280 5 speed.just use the KA24De transmission with the KA24de engine. but if you wanted to use the 280 5 speed you can interchange bellhousing's. using the KA bell housing with 280z gears and 280 tail housing. ive never seen of it or heard of it being done but i believe that the main of it. now the 280 input shaft bearing is smaller than the KA input shaft bearing in the housing. so your going to have to find out how to make that work. maybe cut out the 280z one and weld it up to the ka. i dont know. haha. i wouldnt know what clutch to use though. or what clutch is compatible with what. anyone else got anything to say?.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

I know that a Z22-Z24 motor you can just swap the bellhousing and use the 280 5 speed just like that with the L20B clutch components and be fine. So I would need a KA rwd 5 speed, clutch, and the drive shaft. hmmmmm. Anyother suggestions?


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## SVP5TEN (Apr 27, 2004)

510Mods said:


> I know that a Z22-Z24 motor you can just swap the bellhousing and use the 280 5 speed just like that with the L20B clutch components and be fine. So I would need a KA rwd 5 speed, clutch, and the drive shaft. hmmmmm. Anyother suggestions?


thats cool. i didnt know you can do that. other than that it that you just have to custom a few things to make it fit. i sudgest trying to get the drive shaft and rear axles straight as possible. to much angle is bad. and it may free up just a little bit more power. you got some prices for me yet?. haha.


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## SR20MAN (Mar 11, 2005)

510Mods said:


> What would make you go SR? If you can get more hp and torque at a cheaper cost, what more reason to go for the KA. I'm trying to justify the SR/KA fight is all, hehe. I'd sacrifice top end hp for low-mid torque anyday. Thats the stuff that holds your @ss to the seat. Have you ever been in a car where you floor the thing, and try to touch the dash but you cant? I have, and that's all torque


Some of the guys that I know running Turbo KA's have problems from time to time. I think KA's need to be tuned by a professional tuner because they are NA engines. With a SR20 it came with the turbo from the factory and just runs better IMO.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

I definitely agree. I will be designing then intake system from scratch for the TT. I decided to go with TT to bring up the low end response, so I will just series one after another. Also the fuel management will be under my control VIA laptop on the fly adjustments. If I have to, I'll have to take over the spark map also with a DIS4 black box and my software. Otherwise I may have access to a complete 240sx cheap. We will see. What problems came up from turbo'n it?



SR20MAN said:


> Some of the guys that I know running Turbo KA's have problems from time to time. I think KA's need to be tuned by a professional tuner because they are NA engines. With a SR20 it came with the turbo from the factory and just runs better IMO.


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## SR20MAN (Mar 11, 2005)

Good luck man and keep us updated.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

What kind of issues did you hear about with a KA24DE turbo setup?


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## SR20MAN (Mar 11, 2005)

Their engines run rough, probably the timing is off. You really need to put the car on a dyno and tune it with any turbo, or supercharger installed. My friend put a supercharger in his car, didn't tune it and it detonated the engine.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

ooops....yeah I can see that happening. There's not much info on KA turbo tuning, which mean I will be calling alot of places to find it. Sounds like I will need to run my own spark box for the timing of the boost also. Great, thanks for the extra info


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

If I got ahold of a stock KA24DE from a 240sx, I wonder what is the stock comp ratio would be.


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## TheVodKA (Sep 19, 2002)

Ka's have one huge problem when it comes to turboing them, but not everyone has it. They have a tendency to spin rod bearing, I learned that one the hard way.

And a Ka24DE OBDI has a 9.2:1 comp ratio, I think OBDII has 9.5:1


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

I'm learning more and more about the KA24DE. Its a pain due to the lack of availability I have for those. There are tons of SR20DE, SR20E, GA16, E16, and also the 20's. When I get ahold of it, its going to have the tranny and everything. I am going to tear it down and work my magic with it. Are there KA pistons (Arias, etc) that I can use to lower comp at least to 7.5psi? The head will house a pair of stage II cams for sure, and still springs. I will blend, port, polish, and swirl everything I can.

I know I can work the chambers to open up the valve area and that would lower compression. I can look it up, but is there any recommendations for pistons, rods, and cams? Like I say before I am controlling the fuel and spark via digital program on my laptop.


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## BII (May 13, 2004)

SR20DET

Pros:

Established aftermarket with lots of parts by reputable tuners (albeit in Japan/OZ)

Proven reliable power in competition

Factory turbo (making more power from factory turbo is generally "easier" than from a factory NA)

Cons:

Expensive!!! SR20DET parts are made by Japanese companies, expect to pay what we at work call "Japanese" prices (exremely high prices when compared to domestically made parts that, quite frankly are just as good or better, you're basically paying for the name brand and the mAAD Tyte JDM street cred, y0). Of course as this engine has grown in popularity, domestic companies like AEM havce stepped up to provide support, lowering the cost of tuning. You stll have to import the engine/front clip/whatever though.

KA-T:


Pros:

Abundant engine in the US. Lots of technicians are very familiar with it and parts are readily avaiable.

More displacement.

Less complicated, you don't have to deal with swapping an engine, its sitting in your engine bay!

Robust bottom end (the SR has a robust bottom end too, so I guess its a pro for both).

Cons:

Not a factory turbo.



Really I would turbo the KA, but that's just me. Of course I'm not the most well versed in such matters and this is just my opinion, everyone feel free to disagree.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

Instead of taking a look at the why they didn't have a KA24DET. Lets check this out:

What is the main differences between the SR20DE and DET engines?

Besides have turbo components, do they share the same head/block/pistons/rods/cams? What makes the SR20DET different internally to the non-turbo? Then if we can find that out, we would be able to carry that over to the KA possibly.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

The weakest point in the KA is the pistons and rings. Otherwise, that engine is just begging to be turboed, it even has piston squirters stock. It's also cammed for low end torque, which can be changed easy enough, but til then it won't want to rev. Both engines can make impossible levels of Hp, but for my money I'd rather have the KA. More displacement, better low end. Of course, all that would depend on what you want out of the motor. If you want a track engine with lots of up top Hp, maybe I'd pick the SR20. JUN proved that years ago with the Hyper Lemon Sylvia. 700+ Hp out of an SR20.


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## yUkiO (Feb 20, 2005)

why are you comparing sr20det to a van engine? they use ka24 here for vans and i think trucks too. its a piece of sh*t to tell you honestly, i dont care what other people say. the reason why its running rough is because its not really design for cars. its good on low end coz big vehicles need more torque. i didnt read the whole thread coz i think its really out of the question on which one to pick. 

another thing is, a lot of japanese prefer ca18det it respond better than sr20 but hey, if you can get ur hands on an sr20 then i would go with that. no questions. just my 2 cents.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

yUkiO said:


> why are you comparing sr20det to a van engine? they use ka24 here for vans and i think trucks too. its a piece of sh*t to tell you honestly, i dont care what other people say. the reason why its running rough is because its not really design for cars. its good on low end coz big vehicles need more torque. i didnt read the whole thread coz i think its really out of the question on which one to pick.
> 
> another thing is, a lot of japanese prefer ca18det it respond better than sr20 but hey, if you can get ur hands on an sr20 then i would go with that. no questions. just my 2 cents.


A lot of older sports car engines made their start as truck engines.  The KA24, the VG30, the 7MGTE, the 6G72, the L28, the G54B, the list goes on. It was only in the 90s that a lot of sports cars got their own performance engines. The KA24 continued on in the 240 because it was a pretty hardy engine and could handle a lot of mileage and modification.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

Being a truck engine has nothing to do with the operation of it. I dont think they used the KA24DE in the truck, I believe that is the KA24E 12 valve motor. They used the DE 16valve in the 240sx.


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## yUkiO (Feb 20, 2005)

I guess. well be my guest. imo sr20 will push out the hp you have always wanted easily.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

Anything can make horsepower if you have the cash. But to get there efficiently is the tough part. The bigger displacement of the KA allows the engine to breathe at low rpm's easier, which in turn produces more torque and horsepower throughout the range. The only thing that will limit how it uses the power and feeds it, mostly is the cams. Side by side, with identicle cams and compression, which one would make the most power? Again I am not tearing the SR20 down persay, I just want to know the difference between the SR20DE and DET? Then it can be applied to the other engine.


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## BII (May 13, 2004)

yUkiO said:


> why are you comparing sr20det to a van engine? they use ka24 here for vans and i think trucks too. its a piece of sh*t to tell you honestly, i dont care what other people say. the reason why its running rough is because its not really design for cars. its good on low end coz big vehicles need more torque. i didnt read the whole thread coz i think its really out of the question on which one to pick...


I hate hearing this BS all the time. Because it has torque its a "truck motor?" Guess what guys, torque is good. THe SR20DET is a fantastic engine, but its expensive for those of us in the US, the KA is great and its potential for power has been proven over and over. I doubt anyone that is a member of NF is going to build a 700HP SR-powered Silvia.


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## SR20MAN (Mar 11, 2005)

The KA24DE is a truck engine. It's the same old story of how we get screwed over in America. The car was designed with an SR20DET and is a true sports car in Japan. Where as the American version got a detuned truck engine as a substitute. Now I'm not saying the KA isn't a good engine, in fact it has more displacement and is a good engine. If it wasn't a good engine tuners wouldn't be making turbo kits for it. It just a matter of getting the engine to run right. 
I just partial to the SR because it's more exotic in the states and people are more impressed when you tell them your powered by one. Ahh, you know... all those car ho's out there.....haha.


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## SR20MAN (Mar 11, 2005)

Speaking of KA how much do you think I could sell my KA for with 35,000 original miles on it?


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## yUkiO (Feb 20, 2005)

bII said:


> I hate hearing this BS all the time. Because it has torque its a "truck motor?" Guess what guys, torque is good. THe SR20DET is a fantastic engine, but its expensive for those of us in the US, the KA is great and its potential for power has been proven over and over. I doubt anyone that is a member of NF is going to build a 700HP SR-powered Silvia.


next time before you reply make sure that the prior post wasn't BS. KA is a truck engine!


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## yUkiO (Feb 20, 2005)

510Mods said:


> Anything can make horsepower if you have the cash. But to get there efficiently is the tough part. The bigger displacement of the KA allows the engine to breathe at low rpm's easier, which in turn produces more torque and horsepower throughout the range. The only thing that will limit how it uses the power and feeds it, mostly is the cams. Side by side, with identicle cams and compression, which one would make the most power? Again I am not tearing the SR20 down persay, I just want to know the difference between the SR20DE and DET? Then it can be applied to the other engine.


 i think itll be easier and will be cheaper in the long run to get the sr20det instead of getting an n/a and boosting it. i am pretty sure that the most of the internals will be different. so just to save time and money just go with the boosted one.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

I build american muscle and import tuners. The 5.0 is the american rev monster. If you were to set it up with twin turbos, you get around 1200hp and rev to 9000 rpm. the KADE is half the displacement and has 4 valves. So in reality, if set up properly it has "potential" of 600hp. Thats another topic.

I still have not found the difference internally to the SR20DE and DET. If they use the same crank, rods, and head. Then they changed the pistons to lower compression and the cams to harness the tubo power. The same thing can be applied to the KA and anyother engine. Do they use a hardened crank in the turbo or h beam rods, or a larger head on the SR20DET? compared to the non turbo SR20DE. Thats all we need to find out.


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## StevenLK (Jul 15, 2002)

who cares if it is a truck motor or not . arent sr20veT's in suv like things? whys it matter what matters is u have the potential of making sum serious hp/torque and what ever u like. there is alot of motors to choose from. the rb/ka/sr/ca ...


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## SR20MAN (Mar 11, 2005)

I was told that the only difference between the DE and DET is the turbo, intercoolers, ect.


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## aminidab (Apr 30, 2002)

SR20MAN said:


> I was told that the only difference between the DE and DET is the turbo, intercoolers, ect.


Not true, there are differences, in compression and some DETs have other differences.. piston squirters, different dowel size in the head for head fasteners and different valves. Probably other things as well but I'm not an sr20de(t) expert.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

SR20DE vs SR20DET:
I'm sure the pistons are different, offset lower into the rod to remove squash potential in the chamber. But if you were to purchase part for part separate. Would the crank, rods, heads, valves, cams, valve springs, and rockers have different part numbers?


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## 4sphed (Mar 5, 2005)

Well, I guess I'll chime in ... my motto from the ole' days is "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races." And it rings true to this day. So the question would be, why wouldn't you want to start with a larger displacement engine for your turbo building block? Yes, there might be more exotic appeal to having an SR20 as the crowd's gather around your car with admiration. However, there's much more feeling of pride when you win the race and your reply is "It's a KA24DE/T, and I built it myself." The KA is not a piece of sh.t as somebody stated here. The fact that it was originally designed for a truck should tell you something ... it's designed to last and pull strong. Then again, I am bias ... My 3 cents.


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## SVP5TEN (Apr 27, 2004)

lets put everything in a nut shell here shall we. 510mods is mostly going to go ka. the funny thing is that the ka engine is a cast iron block made just like the l and z series engines. and you cant take that ka and bore it out alot more so its already stuck at its stock bore size 89 mm. especially if your going turbo. you can go up to 91mm bore. but i wouldnt even do that. what i havnt seen brought up in this forum is how sr can be resleeved and bored up to 10mm more. can you say more displacement. and what about stroking the engine with a 97 stroke. can you say, (with those two figures in mind) 2.7 liters. its been proven and talked about. check it out on the sr20 message boards. 510mods if you say what your capable of you should be able to acomplish something like this. and especially if you can do alot of the work your self. you should be able to save lots of money. im not trying to boil your blood 510mods. im just pointing out the facts. but an engine like the sr27 would cost alot of money. i only brought this up because you say you can do alot. and the only way ill doubt you is if you never complete this project for you dime. :cheers: good luck bro.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

Were trying to stay as simple as possible. You get into issues with rod/piston ratios that are not idea by doing stroke and overbore with these 4 cylinders. Anything above 2.0L for 4 bangers have issues with rotating balances. Then there are issues with the cams and heads to make the 2.7. You cant fit huge cams on these heads and are limited by the design. Thats is for KA and SR's. 

All I am trying to figure out is SR20DET vs KA24DET. What is the most dependable motor that I can squeeze the best power out of? That is assuming all the other variables are IDEAL. 

Cause according my my dyno charts a slightly beefy KA24DE makes this:
169hp @ 5600rpm
170ft/lbs @ 4400rpm

and a slightly beefy SR20DET makes 190hp at 6500rpm. and 
non turbo making 138hp @ 6800rpm, 133ft/lbs @ 4800rpm


Right off the bat, I can see the potential in the KA making loads of mid-top end torque power right off the bat. Just by installing the turbo and setting it up properly. The only advantage of the aluminum block is just weight and the ability to sleeve. Heat and distortion is the only disadvantage of those blocks. I have too many project to finish bro, plus customer cars also. Mine are pretty much on hold for awhile, mainly just gathering ideas for this summer. I'd almost say f'it and pull the 2.0 out and slap a 502 big block in it and call it a day


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## SVP5TEN (Apr 27, 2004)

yes i do agree with you with the limitations in the cylinder head of both ka and sr. but with rotating balances for the bottom end i have to disagree with you. you said it your self you had split a v8 in half to make a 4 cylinder engine. and what about you camless design you were talking about. i say if you can come up with ideas like that you should be capable of building a monster. now if you want to talk about rod/ stroke ratios, rod piston ratios. think about what would be an all around engine. an under square engine such as the ka engine or a square engine like the sr. you want an engine to perform in one area such as torque or do you want an engine of both torgue and horse power.square bore stroke ratios such as the sr engines will perform really well all around in performance. but i see your looking for more torque out put of a stock engine and in reality you will get more out of the ka engine. keeping it simple. but if you want all around performance i would recommend the sr engine. and if you throw in a 502 engine. thats not a monster anymore. you have created godzilla..... :cheers:


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## SR20MAN (Mar 11, 2005)

510Mods said:


> Cause according my my dyno charts a slightly beefy KA24DE makes this:
> 169hp @ 5600rpm
> 170ft/lbs @ 4400rpm
> 
> ...


I thought a KA was more around 180hp and an SR20 (backtop) is about 220hp?


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## yUkiO (Feb 20, 2005)

you guys got me. go with the KA then. When is this project suppose to start?


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## BII (May 13, 2004)

yUkiO said:


> next time before you reply make sure that the prior post wasn't BS. KA is a truck engine!


Why, because it came in a truck as well as a sport coupe? The Stanza is KA powered, why isn't the KA referred to as a "sedan motor?" Lots of motors are like that, auto manufacturers put a motors in vehicles across their product line.. I suppose the Ford's 4.6L is a "truck motor" because it comes in an F-150 and the Mustang. Or the is the Viper motor now to be referred to as a "truck motor," now that it has been put in a truck? Or the new HEMI for that matter (which came in a truck first BTW)? The 350Z and the Murano share the same motor, so does the 350Z have a "truck motor?" 

I just think that this notion of the KA being a "truck motor" (and said with a pejoritive tone) has been repeated so often that it has become some sort of gospel. But in reality it doesn't mean anything. I mean what is a "truck motor?" That is really all I meant. That this "truck motor" thing is used to dismiss the KA, when there really is not reason to simply dismiss it from a performance standpoint.


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## 4sphed (Mar 5, 2005)

Well stated bII.


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## SR20MAN (Mar 11, 2005)

I think it's referred to as a truck motor because nissan was already putting them in their domestic trucks and decided to substitute it for the SR20DET for the US domestic market in the 240sx. I believe the 350z motor was designed for that specific car and subsequently adapted to be in their (nissan's) trucks, suv, ect. So in essence the Murano has a sport car motor.


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## 95seRguy (Oct 4, 2004)

510Mods said:


> Thank for the site. Does anybody have any info on a KA24DE turbo on the specs of the hp and torque. I have stuff for the SR20DET, but nothing on the KA24DE with added turbo.


what are the specs on the stock sr20det?


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## SR20MAN (Mar 11, 2005)

And you have to admit that in stock form the SR is a better motor than the KA. Which would make more sense in a sports car which the 240sx is.


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## 4sphed (Mar 5, 2005)

SR20MAN said:


> And you have to admit that in stock form the SR is a better motor than the KA. Which would make more sense in a sports car which the 240sx is.


Getting back to the original question though * , the KA is going to make more torque low to mid where he wants it most. You can't reasonably compare in stock format a turbo spec engine to that of a naturally aspirated one. My understanding is that he wants the best suited building block for a torquey turbo build-up and still be reliable. There are plenty of KATs with proven reliability at the 250/300 hp/torque criteria. Make the same modifications to the bottem-end of an SR and KA, and the KA will always have more torque. Whether one model engine makes more sense for a particular car is really determined by the driver's intentions; so to admit as to the SR being better suited for the 240 than the KA is a moot point to me. However, I would agree with the fact that a turbo engine, whether SR or KA, belongs in a 240 *any day!* :thumbup: 

* _"I am researching to find the best motor swap. I am trying to stick with 4 bangers only. I want to get the best motor for the turbo setup. I dont think I'll be revving past 6k rpm. It would be nice to go to 8K, but really not needed. I need a good hp and torque range. I can start with non turbo blocks and work in my own turbo systems and EFI control, not a problem. What would be a good motor to get atleast 250-300 hp/trq from and still be reliable? It will be connected to a 5 speed."_


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## spdracerUT (Jun 11, 2002)

i thought i'd posted in this thread before, but anyways, www.ka-t.org. I'd personally just build up the KA. I do love the SR and all considering i have one in my se-r, but there's no replacement for displacement (especially 20% more!).


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## TheNightScene (Mar 18, 2005)

i am a student at Northwestern Ohio Home of the largest motorsports classroom in the world,,,and after reading all this it doesnt really matter which is engine to use ka is just as good as a sr and the sr is just as good as a ka b/c if you turbo a motor your going to have to do the same upgrades to both engines and when you port and polish, bore and all the other things that you do to get the most power out of it the engine will have around the same power output for example,, lisa kubo first had a civic that ran in the 7's in the 1/4 mile she turned around and did the same thing to a freakin saturn now come on everybody knows saturns are not sports cars but it just shows you anything can be done its just how much you know and how much $$ your willing to spend


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## BII (May 13, 2004)

SR20MAN said:


> I think it's referred to as a truck motor because nissan was already putting them in their domestic trucks and decided to substitute it for the SR20DET for the US domestic market in the 240sx. I believe the 350z motor was designed for that specific car and subsequently adapted to be in their (nissan's) trucks, suv, ect. So in essence the Murano has a sport car motor.


umm, ok, so no one sees how silly all this labeling is, fine.


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## SVP5TEN (Apr 27, 2004)

TheNightScene said:


> i am a student at Northwestern Ohio Home of the largest motorsports classroom in the world,,,and after reading all this it doesnt really matter which is engine to use ka is just as good as a sr and the sr is just as good as a ka b/c if you turbo a motor your going to have to do the same upgrades to both engines and when you port and polish, bore and all the other things that you do to get the most power out of it the engine will have around the same power output for example,, lisa kubo first had a civic that ran in the 7's in the 1/4 mile she turned around and did the same thing to a freakin saturn now come on everybody knows saturns are not sports cars but it just shows you anything can be done its just how much you know and how much $$ your willing to spend


honda/ saturn = aluminum blocks. ka24 = cast iron. lisa kubo ran a 100mm custom stroke in her honda. were here to keep it simple. i put enough effort into this thread. everyone seems to be worried about an engines origin. looks like no one cares about the thermodynamics, nor engineering of it all. im sticking a fork in it. later


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## TheNightScene (Mar 18, 2005)

SVP5TEN said:


> honda/ saturn = aluminum blocks. ka24 = cast iron. lisa kubo ran a 100mm custom stroke in her honda. were here to keep it simple. i put enough effort into this thread. everyone seems to be worried about an engines origin. looks like no one cares about the thermodynamics, nor engineering of it all. im sticking a fork in it. later[/QUO
> 
> shows how much you know what does the block have to do with it,,, ne wayz can you tell me why you think the sr20 is better than the Ka,,,is it b/c its turbo well put a turbo in the ka and why else ,,cause its jdm woow,, there both 4 cl but you no id rather want a 2.4 than a 2.0
> 
> TELL ME ONE THING YOU CAN DO TO THE SR20 THAT YOU CANT TO THE KA24


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

These are good arguments...i'm still curious on what makes a sr20det different than a sr20de. I mean if all they do is use a different piston to reduce compression and maybe use different cams, along with the ECU and things, then thats nothing really special. And can be applied to the KA in the same fashion. I know what I am capable of and I'm a grown up now and dont have to wave shit around and say look what I can do. I mean you can turbo charge a 5.5hp lawn mower engine and stick a billet head on it and get 30hp out of it easy. There's alittle more to it. But basically an engine is a big air compressor. In small engines like a 1.6L, basically they have to rev high to be able to breath and take advantage of the RPM/power band. Otherwise you simulate them as a bigger cubic inch motor by turbo/supercharging them and stuffing more fuel down its throat. SVP5TEN---Those projects that I work on are just ideas. When it comes down to it, they dont mean shit. I'm just here to make my life easier to live. And if I come up with an idea that will take me there, its done. Most of the inventors back in the day had so radical ideas that poeple out casted them and killed them. Ideas that were so far ahead that we use them today, atleast the concepts. But then again the "piston engine" wont be around for too much longer.  Its going to go into the ac/dc fields and perpetual magnetics for motion of vehicles. Again thats another topic. I love britsh cars, anybody work on Triumph Spitfire's?


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## spdracerUT (Jun 11, 2002)

www.se-r.net had a list of the differences between the sr20de and dets. namely the lower compression pistons and piston oil squirters. can't remember if the det comes with sodium filled valves or not, the gti-r does for sure.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

I heard of the sodium filled valves also on the DET. Those are pretty much drop in's, if they weren't original. Thanks racerUT, that gave me alot of info in that snipet of reply. I wonder if I made a topic on GA vs E motors what would people say, lol.


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## SVP5TEN (Apr 27, 2004)

TheNightScene said:


> SVP5TEN said:
> 
> 
> > honda/ saturn = aluminum blocks. ka24 = cast iron. lisa kubo ran a 100mm custom stroke in her honda. were here to keep it simple. i put enough effort into this thread. everyone seems to be worried about an engines origin. looks like no one cares about the thermodynamics, nor engineering of it all. im sticking a fork in it. later[/QUO
> ...


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## SR20MAN (Mar 11, 2005)

My vote is to get a SR20DET.


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## thedaddies (Sep 29, 2003)

Either are good motors. Now when you bring up resleeving the block and overboring it. Stroking the SR, now that's a cheap alternative. Now you have replaced everything that the motor ever came with from the factory. Crank, rods, pistons, etc. So you have to pay to get a motor from Japan(2200-2700 usually) then on top of that rip it apart and do all that. In replacement of a perfectly good motor that for $1000-2000 you can a block that will reliably handle 400 rwhp. To get any decent numbers out of an SR you have replace the entire turbo setup as well. New turbo, injectors, ecu, maf, etc. Whereas with the KA if you knock all that out up front your'e done and it's out of the way.

I have $2200 I believe into my setup and say I throw another $1000 into a built block(done by me) and I knock out 400 rwhp reliably. That's on a SOHC, not even a DOHC. I don't see the downside.

They are both great motors, as I have a SE-R as well. For the 240 I say stick with what it came with. Same for the SE-R.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

SVP5TEN- I'm always up for visits and bs  Too bad the weather is the shitts here. 

I know for sure it will be a DE motor. It just has better breathing potential. I wonder about converting the block to roller bearings on the crank. Plus if I did reach the hp level through turbo. I would hate to do it, but take the slack up with NOS. Or use propane injection and turn the boost up a notch. hmmm.....


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## tedsilviafan (Mar 19, 2005)

*I'm a rebel.*

Its the KA for me. Just because I want to be different. Besides already have it. Can spend all the money I would waste importing a SR on top notch after market internals for the KA. Then boost it till I blow the head off of the motor. Then go to junkyard and get another for $500 or so.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

How does you car drive with just the natural KA24? I mean as far as acceleration and things. You know what I mean. We all hot-rod with eachother, how does it respond?


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

To achieve 300 whp it wouldn't take much of a buildup on either engine. Whichever engine you get I would rebuild it for reliability to include at least rings, bearings, and gaskets. The KA should get forged rods and pistons so for the money the KA would be the way to go but out of the box after the rering, bearings and gaskets, for the weight savings of the SR would be the way to go. I have a high hp KA24DE(T) in my Altima and am building a Black Top SR20DET for my S13 to run 300 whp. The AWD GTi-R SR20DET is much different than both of FWD and RWD SR20DETs, all the way from the block being a different alloy to the induction with individual throttle bodies. Also remember that the SR20DE was only a FWD engine in the US so the distributor will be on the back of the head and in the old school Datsuns you have it would protrude into the firewall when used in a RWD application.

Whatever is available would be my vote...

Troy


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

Ok here's what I do with race motors. I basically message the head for a month with my port and polishing bits. I open it all up and step the intake ports a bit to promote fuel mixture. Then I free the valves up in the chamber and create swirl patterns in critical areas. I take the crank and weight it, balance weight each cw and record them. Then rods and pisons marked for each bore and cw. I then shave the piston is areas that are non critical and polish the whole thing till I can see myself in it. Same for the rods to lighten them and relieve stress riser areas. Then the weight is match to the rotating crank cw's. In which they are first knive-edged, then lightened on the skin. Polished on all surfaces and treated. After all that is done, the whole unit is balanced as one and final offsets are made. Alot of recip weight is gone. And can spin faster than shit. The motor will go through a complete run over. If I go with the KA24DE and twin turbos, what rods and pistons shall I use to get 7.5-8:1 compression and hold it all in?


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## tedsilviafan (Mar 19, 2005)

*I like Keith Black Pistons*

Not sure if they have any available for the KA, but worth checking, they make some really light weight stuff.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

I miss communicated, sorry. I will start out with un-modified parts. They will just be forged parts. Then I make my mods to them. For a good set of forged rods and pistons for low compression, what brand and type shall I get? I tried a search but they dont get into specs.


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

I used JE pistons and Crower rods in all three of my Nissans.

Troy


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

Thats a good start for me thanks.


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## SR20MAN (Mar 11, 2005)

What is the weight difference between SR and KA? Anyone know?


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## thedaddies (Sep 29, 2003)

not enough to really make much of a difference, I think I remember it being like 20-30 lbs.


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## 510Mods (Feb 21, 2005)

Will the KA24DE bolt up to my 280Z 5 speed? If not, will the 240sx 5 speed swap into my 510? and also will I need to change the mounts and driveshaft? I am not familiar with the components on the 240SX.


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## IanH (Feb 11, 2003)

SR20MAN said:


> I think it's referred to as a truck motor because nissan was already putting them in their domestic trucks and decided to substitute it for the SR20DET for the US domestic market in the 240sx. I believe the 350z motor was designed for that specific car and subsequently adapted to be in their (nissan's) trucks, suv, ect. So in essence the Murano has a sport car motor.


The 35VQ motor was first installed in the 2001 Pathfinder in the USA, before the 350Z had even burped. 
So the 350Z motor is a truck motor too ?? 
Lets face it any engine can be re-mapped to make more or less Hp and Torque depending on vehicle weight. Thats the issue. 

Re: Spitfires, I had Standard Triumph when I was young, same engine and transmission, put Mk1 Spitfire intake and exhaust manifold on it. Dad had Triumph 2000, 6 cylinder version same engine. 
What do you want to know ?


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## SR20MAN (Mar 11, 2005)

Yeah I guess you're right but the KA is known or labeled as a truck motor. Don't ask me that just what everone refers to it as. It's a good motor just needs boost.


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## thedaddies (Sep 29, 2003)

Just for craps and giggles. phatka-t.com just put down 575 rwhp on the dyno out of the ka24de. There is still more room for them to go too. There is videos on their page, that just had me giddy.=)


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## S13_Hero (Sep 15, 2007)

how much boost can be run through the KA on stock internals before something goes up??


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## 2high2aim (Jul 8, 2007)

Holly shit.........I read thousands of 240SX engine forums. KA24DE v. SR20DET

1)First what you should compare is the KA24DE with the SR20DE (with out the turbo) so you know which 1 has more horsepower.


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## 2high2aim (Jul 8, 2007)

Holly shit.........I read thousands of 240SX engine forums. KA24DE v. SR20DET

1)First what you should compare is the KA24DE with the SR20DE (with out the turbo) so you know which 1 has more horsepower.

2)Second you should do a compression test between each other.

3) Then if you rich then attach a the same T25 or T28 turbo setup on each one before you start here are some things you should know.

SR20DET
Factory turbo-ed (you ask so what i can just turbo the KA24DE)-WRONG only if you have low boost pressure maybe 7-11 psi of boost about 210-240hp on KA24DE and that isn't worth shit.

SR20DET has forged internals so you can boost it up to a higher BOOST PSI and thus get more HORSE POWER and KA24DE does not have forged internals because it was not ment to be turbo-ed however you can do it and make a really fast car BUT you have to rebuild the engine with forged internals which cost a lot to get all the parts and then if your not installing them by yourself then labor is a lot too. So I believe it will get expensive if you turbo the KA24DE and then put the boost up to about 20 psi on a T3 turbo.

Whereas in the SR20DET it is turbo-ed factory so you know the engine internals are pretty reliable for about 10-18 psi. I HAVE NOT COMPARED THE PRICES BUT I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE CHEAPER FOR THE SR20DET TO BE UPGRADED TO A T3 TUBRO AND HAVE MINOR ENGINE PARTS REPLACE FOR HIGHER BOOST LEVELS THEN A KA24DE BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE FULLY REBUILT TO HANDLE 20PSI OF BOOST.

That is just what I think, if someone can post a piece by piece analysis of parts replaced in KA24DE and then parts for turbo setup and there prices it would be great and very helpful to all of us.

3) CONTINUED----------------------------->NOW that you have both engines with a T25 or T28 turbo crank the boost up and see what you get...........most likely the KA24DE with stock internals will detonate before the SR

But if the KA24DE has all been properly rebuilt with forged internals the KA would last longer
1) Because the SR was made with a T25 turbo and with, i think, about like 9psi of boost although it has forged internals it might not last as much as a KA24DE fully rebuilt with forged internals because they are NEW, the After market forged items are stronger then Nissan forged.


WHAT THEN WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO COMPARE????

REBUILD BOTH ENGINES then turbo both AND see which one lasts longer.







HOPE SOME1 POST THE RESULTS OF THIS EXPERIMENT and THIS WILL HELP SOLVE THE ISSUE BETWEEN SR20DET vs. KA24DE(T) 
(u magazine people this would be a really good topic for an ISSUE a lot more people would buy your magazine because this is a common issue that all 240SX-er struggle with.)


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