# Sticky  AD18VB vs. AD18VE



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

I was gonna post this on Webfoot's JY today forum since the discussion turned to brakes but thought I'd start a new thread since this is pretty specific info.

The AD18VB calipers came stock on the '88-'90 Pulsar SE w/CA18DE. The AD18VE calipers are stock for B13 Sentra's including SE-R's. So what's the difference? Well, not much. Basically the calipers are the same except for a different slide pin setup. The pads are a little different too. The VB pads are longer and skinnier and have an approximate contact are of 34.78 sq. cm. The VE pads have a contact area of approximately 35.28 sq. cm.

So what will they fit? Provided you run the rotors from an '88-'90 Pulsar SE w/CA18DE or a B13 w/AD18VE system and 14" wheels (minimum), they will fit all B12, KN13, and B13 applications. BTW, the Pulsar rotors are the same part number as the B13 rotors. The '87 Pulsar SE w/CA16DE used the same calipers but the rotors were 10mm smaller in diameter and the torque member was smaller to accomodate the smaller rotor.

EDIT: If you want to take full advantage of the AD18 upgrade you should swap out your brake booster for a larger one. The booster from an SE Pulsar would work nicely. The Pulsar crowd uses the boosters from Stanzas as an upgrade. The booster off a B13 SE-R would also work well.

Here are some pics. The VB caliper is on the left.


















Here's a couple of the pads, both are Repco/Axxis metal masters. The VB pads are on the left and top.


















I don't know if there is any real advantage to running the VB or VE system. Looks like they will both do a real good job of stopping a B12 or KN13.

Now for some thoughts on the AD22VF system. IMHO the AD18 system is more than enough to bring a B12 to a screaching hault. Too many people get wrapped up about having the biggest badest brakes out there when it really isn't necessary. However, there are a few folks who should be running big brakes on their B12's....ehem...boost_boy. No matter how good the AD18's are they weren't designed for 300-500hp applications.


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

Okey, now what about the rear? I know that 80%of the stopping power is in the front .But does it really matter if you have rear discs?And my goal is 250-300 HP , will the ad18's hold up? I'm not going to road race the holy shit out of my b12. but I 'm going to have a street sleeper on my hands.. 

Also I heared that drilled ,and sloted roters are not needed for street use. Simple ,because of the fact is your not drifting,or 
on a road course. so the brakes are not going to get hot.(hence the slotted,and drilled part.) right?
So the lots of money you tie up in your cars brakes like most street people is not needed? true or not??well let me know if I'm on the right path..thx RED


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

It doesn't sound like you're going to be massive amounts of high-speed braking. The AD18 brakes should work fine.

Most people that put slotted/drilled rotors on also paint their calipers. I've got nothing against this and think it looks good but that's really all it's for is looks. They aren't doing the kind of driving that would require slotted/drilled rotors with AD22VF brakes. 

Let's face it...we're ricers.

Of course the CL18B system is adequate for daily driving and with some upgrades can really do well. However, it's still a solid rotor and some pretty small pads. I'm going with the AD18VE calipers on my B11. I'll put up some pics of the rotors later on.

If you don't want to mess with a rear disk conversion just go out and get some quality shoes. I put Wagner Thermo-Quiet riveted shoes on my Grand Am and they work great. Also make sure you overhaul your rear brakes. New cylinders and hardware. I also put Thermo-Quiet pads and Wagner rotors on the front. Thing locks up my seatbelt when I hit the brakes.


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

Now on the AD18's,and the AD22's they made ABS, and non right? how do i know if i have ABS or not?


----------



## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

the ad setup didnt seem to be much of a difference from stock from my experience. i didnt do the recommended booster swap so maybe thats why i didnt notice it. i have been driving my girls gst all weekend and to me her all wheel disc set up sucks . what did u think of ur sons set up , myet? by the way she has the 97


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Yeah, I forgot to mention that you should upgrade the brake booster. Seems the one off a Stanza is popular. Otherwise you are getting the same hydraulic pressure only with larger pads.

Well, I've never driven the Talon. It's been up on jackstands more than it's on the road.  I did drive his GS and wasn't impressed with the brakes. I can tell you my Grand Am out breaks anything I've driven.


----------



## gteknikal (Oct 26, 2002)

Excuse my ignorance and stupidity, but I was left a little confused... Which kit is the better one to get? I wanna do the brake upgrade on my girl's B12 and was thinking the 22's, but did figure that that was WAY too much brakes for her little 70 HP car. 

And as far as these upgrades, would I just be able to ask for calipers and rotors for a 88-90 Pulsar at the local auto parts and bolt this stuff right on?

Thanks,
Gino


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

If you want the AD18 upgrade you will need the following:

- Rotors from 88-90 pulsar or B13 w/AD18VE. They are the same rotors.
- Loaded calipers from the same application. You need loaded because you need to torque member which does not come with unloaded calipers.
- Backing plate from the same application. The backing plate on the CL18B may not work with the AD18 system. I haven't sized it up yet so I'm not sure.
- If you want increased breaking power you need a bigger booster. Get one from the SE Pulsar or a Stanza. The Sentra master cylinder will bolt right up.

That should do it.


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

Okey now myet, what about my brakes , will the SE-R be fin , or will I have to get the stanza one ?and the you didn't answer my ABS question....


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Don't mess with the ABS system. Just get the rotors, backing plates, and calipers from the system you want. It doesn't matter if it has ABS or not. If I were you I'd get a stanza booster or even a booster from an NX2000, don't run the Sentra booster.


----------



## Mervic (May 1, 2002)

Myetball said:


> *It doesn't sound like you're going to be massive amounts of high-speed braking. The AD18 brakes should work fine.
> 
> *


 I agree. Any of the AD18 brake systems should suffice especially if you have sticky tires. It is a good brake upgrade compare to our smallish non vented brakes. Unless you go to the track and/or have ungodly amount of HP I dont see of any use of massive brake system. But if I can get a good pice on an AD22VF system, I jumped on the opportunity if I have the money.


----------



## Mervic (May 1, 2002)

Myetball said:


> * If I were you I'd get a stanza booster or even a booster from an NX2000, don't run the Sentra booster. *


 Would it matter what Stanza model/trim to get the booster? Or would it be easier if you swap the master cylinder and booster from a Stanza to your car?


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

I don't think it matters what year. The one I got with my engine is just like the '88 Stanza and will work nicely.

Swapping the master cylinder is NOT recommended. Most of the Stanza master cylinders are internally proprotioned. To get it to work you would have to bypass your proportioning valve and run extra brake lines to the master cylinder. The internal proportioning of the stanza cylinder may not match what the sentra needs. 

Of course I'll be running a Stanza master cylinder but I'm gonna have rear disk brakes also. We'll see how it works out.


----------



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Nice Article*

I've been away and haven't been here in a few weeks. Myetball this is a great thread. Thanks for posting the pics and sharing the good info!


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

hey maybe it could have greatness for a sticky???

and hey myet.. i think i'll go with the rear conversion on my car .. so to beat a deadhorse.recape:
-I need the whole brake system inclueding lines
-now the SER master,and a stanza booster? right.
it doesn't matter what year? Okey thx. RED


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Well now you've thrown me for a loop. I've never done the B12 rear disc conversion but I know boost_boy posted a nice thread about it some time back. 

I think it would be best to go with a complete B13 system. I don't know if the Stanza booster is necessary but it seems the booster of an SE-R would work fine. 

I don't know if the B13 system in internally proportioned or not. Check that out and we'll know if you need to run new lines or not. Regardless you will need to use hoses on the rear disc brakes but it shouldn't require too much drama.


----------



## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

Myetball said:


> *If you want the AD18 upgrade you will need the following:
> 
> - Rotors from 88-90 pulsar or B13 w/AD18VE. They are the same rotors.
> - Loaded calipers from the same application. You need loaded because you need to torque member which does not come with unloaded calipers.
> ...


 why would u need the backing plate,myet? i used the ones that came with my stock setup . is that really necassary?


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

If what you got works then of course it's not necessary. I wasn't sure if the CL18B backing plate would work. Does it cover the back side enough?


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Just FYI, I'm going to be running a set of AD18VE calipers from a B13 SE-R on my monster B11. Just gotta get around to cleaning them up and rebuilding them. Also want to paint them. I picked up a set of AXXIS metal master pads on ebay for $1.00 and a set of Beck/Arnley rotors for $32. The master cylinder will be from a late 80's Stanza (new $29.99 Ebay), and the booster will be the one that came with my engine. Looks like a Stanza (bluebird) booster.

Still have alot of parts to get for the rear disc conversion but that's a whole other can'o'worms.


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

*Re: Nice Article*



blownb310 said:


> *I've been away and haven't been here in a few weeks. Myetball this is a great thread. Thanks for posting the pics and sharing the good info!  *


(Read with your best Elvis voice) 

Thank you, thank you very much


----------



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Myetball said:


> *I picked up a set of AXXIS metal master pads on ebay for $1.00 and a set of Beck/Arnley rotors for $32*


 ***** Great finds! But Myetball, why would anyone bother to sell a set of brake pads [performance pads- no less] for a dollar? I can't understand that. The listing fee alone is about that much.


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

blownb310 said:


> ****** Great finds! But Myetball, why would anyone bother to sell a set of brake pads [performance pads- no less] for a dollar? I can't understand that. The listing fee alone is about that much.  *


Check it here. I don't think it was their intent to let them go for a dollar. It was the opening bid and nobody else bid. Maybe nobody realized they were AD18VE pads...I dunno.


----------



## narx (Jun 3, 2003)

So the b13 brakes just plain swap with the b11 brakes?
Plug and play...? No mods required rite..


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Nope. The B11 rotors are pressed on to the steering knuckle. You can't swap out the rotors so the larger brakes won't work.

Your best bet is to get some steering knuckles off the Diesel B11. The diesel model used larger vented brakes.

I'm planning on swapping B12 steering knuckles onto my B11. I'll let you know how that works out when I get to it.


----------



## narx (Jun 3, 2003)

Hhhhmmm..i thought all the while... just take out the rotor and caliper and exchange it with the B13..

Over in malaysia, we dont get diesel b11

Well i`m running on 15 and my brakes really aint good at above 100kmh.. plus i rarely do that fast on highway.. only when i`m going around the hills..then there is where brake fade really hits me..bad..

Plus, out of topic..
e13 and e15 shares the same gearbox rite..


----------



## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

blownb310 said:


> ****** Great finds! But Myetball, why would anyone bother to sell a set of brake pads [performance pads- no less] for a dollar? I can't understand that. The listing fee alone is about that much.  *


 hey , i found a swingarm for my bike for a dollar but shipping was 15 bucks


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

FYI, I bought NISMO pads (Repco Metal Master) for the set of AD18VB calipers I'm trying to sell from an Ebay seller that goes by graffz. 

Here's  another set of the same pads. The prices are the same. I used buy it now so paid around $32.00.


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

Hey,

I found out that my junker doesn't have the frt.AD18 on it or anything else of the brakes.up frt. that is. Has the rear,and the master,booster too But i have to find cals.and spindels etc.
So i'll rip it of and put it on a pallet.for later


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

hey does anybody know what the plug is on the side of the 
booster?it has two wires yellow,and black is it a sensor?


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

*Snap These Up*

Here's your chance to get a complete set of AD18VE calipers at a decent price.


----------



## Guest (Aug 29, 2003)

Guys, a question, stupid and cheap one, will there any braking improvement by grooving the stock pads?


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

ahhhh? prob. not.. you could go for some wagon frt. brakes
if you want more stopping power...


----------



## b12sr20de (May 31, 2002)

question...whats are the brakes of the 4 door b12 with the e13?? 

what rotors will fit the sr20 axles in a b12 thats good for 150 - 230bhp?


----------



## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

red_devil said:


> *hey does anybody know what the plug is on the side of the
> booster?it has two wires yellow,and black is it a sensor? *


brake fluid level sensor?


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

b12sr20de said:


> *question...whats are the brakes of the 4 door b12 with the e13?? *
> 
> 
> > You should have the CL18B brakes with a solid rotor. Sufficient for a 69hp car.
> ...


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

*Proportioning*

I think it's time to talk a little about proportioning and master cylinders. The whole idea behind proportioning is to meter the amount of fluid/pressure each wheel receives when the brake is applied. Proportioning is set by either an external valve, usually located on the fire wall, or an internal valve built into the master cylinder. Proportioning limits are set based on the type and size of brakes you have on your car. Naturally, disc brakes require much more fluid/pressure than drum brakes to work effectively.


When upgrading the brakes on your B11/B12 it's important to keep in mind the stock proportioning is set to effectively meter fluid/pressure to a set of small rear drum brakes with quite small cylinders and a set of medium sized front calipers. Swapping to an internally proportioned master cylinder designed to work with rear disc brakes or larger rear brakes from a larger chassis vehicle will result in too much fluid/pressure being sent to the rear cylinders. It may be fun for a while to have your rear wheels locking up all the time, as it would make for some pretty fun drifting, but it is hardly practicle and somewhat dangerous to have a daily driver with hair-trigger rear brakes. This is especially true when you upgrade the brake booster and increase the overall amount of pressure in the brake system.

So, what's the best combination? Well, IMO a B12 would stop quite well with a set of AD18 brakes up front with high quality pads, stock rear drums in the back with high quality shoes, a booster from a KN13 Pulsar SE, Stanza, or B13 SE-R, and a stock master cylinder.

The only real affect swapping the master cylinder will have is to change the proportioning so a master cylinder swap isn't really necessary unless you are going to fab some rear disc brakes. In this case it would be necessary to swap master cylinders to ensure the rear disc brakes receive enough fluid/pressure to work. Without changing the master cylinder, and along with it the proportioning, a set of custom rear brakes would only provide a fraction of their designed braking power.


----------



## Lazarus_023 (Jun 3, 2003)

alright, i cornered the market on diesel hubs. now what?

the above info is all well and good, but it does squat fer my poor B11.

i noticed while shopping for pads that the sentra diesel and stanza (82-86) use the same pads. IIRC, they use similar calipers/rotors, with the stanza being slightly thicker (20mm vs 18, er something?) anyone know if i can use the MUCH more readily available stanza (or even maxima?) calipers/rotors in conjunction with the diesel hubs?


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

*Rotor Auction*

Here's an auction for some AD18VB/VE compatible rotors in case anyone is interested.

These won't work with calipers from an '87 Pulsar SE unless you get the torque members from a set of '88-'90 calipers.


----------



## Webfoot (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Rotor Auction*



Myetball said:


> *Here's an auction for some AD18VB/VE compatible rotors in case anyone is interested. *


Gosh, wish they had a pic. 
First off, mad props to your sticky, Myet. 
Secondly, I wanna back up a little bit and confirm a few things. Went to the jy and picked up a set of Calipers and rotors  from an 87 Pulsar SE with a CA16DE The two big calipers are setting next to a b12 stock caliper. Now, I checked brakes on at least 20 pulsars and 30 B12's and saw basically these 2 types of brakes. The SE's have much thicker rotors with fluting between the 2 surfaces. Everything with a SOHC had identical, whimpy little brakes as the b12. So, I'm just saying that any pulsar, 87-90 with a CA motor should have AD18 brakes. 
Another thing I noticed is the calipers in an SE-R are litterally stamped AD18.... The ones in all the CA motored Pulsars are all stamped 1708. Don't think you can see it in the pic, it's right next to the bleeder screw. There is also a 17V stamped on the caliper. Sooooo, Whadya think? I paid 10ea for like new rotors, 20 ea for good calipers with like new matalic pads.


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Sounds like a sweet deal. Yep, the '87-'90 SE's have the AD18VB brakes. Check the first post on this thread, you can't see the part with the numbers but mine had the same numbering.

Just remember the '87 Pulsar SE's rotors are 10mm smaller in diameter than the '88-'90. If you try and mount up the '87 calipers on a set of the later year's rotors it won't fit. The only difference in the calipers in the '87 has a shorter torque member (the part that bolts to the steering knuckle) to match the smaller rotor.

The whimpy brakes on the XE Pulsars and Sentras are CL18B.


----------



## Webfoot (Apr 24, 2003)

????? THe 89 SE with 1.8 had the same setup. The rotors I got are the exact same diameter as stock, just thicker. You can also tell how much MORE of the rotor surface the AD brake pads use. Is that the 10mm your're thinking of?


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Lazarus_023 said:


> *alright, i cornered the market on diesel hubs. now what?
> 
> the above info is all well and good, but it does squat fer my poor B11.
> 
> i noticed while shopping for pads that the sentra diesel and stanza (82-86) use the same pads. IIRC, they use similar calipers/rotors, with the stanza being slightly thicker (20mm vs 18, er something?) anyone know if i can use the MUCH more readily available stanza (or even maxima?) calipers/rotors in conjunction with the diesel hubs? *


Lazarus, I really don't know if it will work. The steering knuckles on the Stanza and Maxima are larger than the sentra so I don't know if the caliper mounting will work. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Webfoot, I'll assume you got rotors to fit an '87 Pulsar SE. The ones for the later years will be 10mm larger in diameter. 

I was checking my Mitchell CD and it says the B12 wagon used AD18VB calipers too. Anyone ever look into that?


----------



## Webfoot (Apr 24, 2003)

Damnit, now I got to go back the jy to prove you right. Cuz I swear the 89SE had the zact same brakes as the 87. What if it was a late 87?


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Well, they look exactly the same and it will look like the '87 calipers will fit the '89 rotors until you go to put them on and the holes don't quite line up.

If you can get the torque members off an '88 or later it should solve the problem. Just bolt them up to the calipers you have. The calipers are the same...just the torque member is different.

I believe the size difference was related to having a CA16DE vs. the CA18DE.


----------



## Webfoot (Apr 24, 2003)

F*&^ it. Do you think there's much diff in the performance? The set I got has all the appearances of a fresh rebuild. The 1 CA18 in the yard only has 1 brake assy left. Hmmm, I just measured the rotor sufaces. Stock b12 pad covers 1.4", KN13 1.5" as measured from the inside to the outer edge..... So, but the pads are the same on both CA setups? Just bigger rotors and torque member.


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

I doubt there's much difference in performance. The 5mm difference in radius shouldn't hurt. Just run the '87 brakes if you already have everything.


----------



## xXB12RacerXx (Mar 6, 2003)

I know this is off topic, but i'm thinking i will one day want to go to the ad22vf system off the nx2000's...so besides capilers, pads, and rotors, what else would need to be changed? master and booster?

Thanks!


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

u will prob. need everything from the ad22 system..


----------



## MyClunkyAss12er (May 16, 2003)

just a booster except for the obvious things(capilers, pads, and rotors). they would require everything ud need to ad the ad18 except for the actual brakes.


----------



## SuperHatch (Dec 3, 2002)

Ok Lemme get this straight.. If I have a B12... and I want to upgrade the brakes... And I want to put on the B13 brakes, all I have to do is get the rotors and calipers (loaded)... I DO NOT NEED the hubs from a B13? Or do I need them? And are the brakes from a NX2000 larger? and if I wanted to put them on my B12 would I have to get the NX2000 hubs and such? Please help me out!


----------



## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

no sup, for a meager less than fanominal upgrade u can slap on the b13 calipers/rotors with no prob. no fuss, no worrys.


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

If you really want to notice the upgrade slap on a larger brake booster. A Pulsar/SE, Stanza, or B13 SE-R booster will work nicely.


----------



## gteknikal (Oct 26, 2002)

Myetball said:


> If you really want to notice the upgrade slap on a larger brake booster. A Pulsar/SE, Stanza, or B13 SE-R booster will work nicely.


If you swap over to any of these boosters, will the brake lines need to be modified? Or will they still bolt right on to the MC?

Gino


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

u will need to be a little patient with it. if i remember you need to do some modding? with the lines. but the booster
should bolt up.


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

gteknikal said:


> If you swap over to any of these boosters, will the brake lines need to be modified? Or will they still bolt right on to the MC?
> 
> Gino


Swapping the booster doesn't require any mod, just bolt it up. The lines only need to be mod'd if you change MC's, which you really don't need to do.


----------



## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

so......maybe i'm asking a question thats already been answered, but would i be able to take the complete brake system from the NX2000 and put on my 87 pulsar XE ? I know for the rear brakes i have to change hub, but front i take it would be ok. and i'm thinking if i'm basically using all brakes from nx2000 why not jsut use master cylinder and booster from it. and i'm talking about the non-abs system. dont really want abs and i believe abs still goes through the main ecu does it not?


another question...which booster is bigger??? i've figured sentra booster is smallest, then stanza and nx2000? or are stanza and nx2000same? i know i'm asking alot but to be honest i've only seen a nx2000 once let alone had my head under the hood.


----------



## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

no answer huh....hmm


----------



## MyClunkyAss12er (May 16, 2003)

Gsolo said:


> no answer huh....hmm


haha, sorry i didnt see u had posted or i would have been right on it! well the rear suspension is different also but not by much....look into sr20 swap sticky it has alot of info on converting the rear suspension to take the rear brakes. or u can get a brace for lack of better words like what hybrid has on his b12. fast brakes makes a rear drum to disc conversion for the b14 that uses a brace much like hybrids so u might want to look into that cause im not 100% on that. it looks like it would fit though. THE FRONTS WILL NOT FIT IN WHEELS SMALLER THAN 14in! jsut wanted to make that clear so u dont go buy them then cant put them on.....and even on some 14's they dont fit. anyways i think the nx2000 and the stanza have the same booster or similar in strength but again i am not 100% on that. as for the master cylinder i think all cars bassed on the b13 cna swap wiht b13's and b12's. oh and ur pulsar is based on a b12 if u did not know. i hope this helps.


----------



## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

MyClunkyAss12er said:


> haha, sorry i didnt see u had posted or i would have been right on it! well the rear suspension is different also but not by much....look into sr20 swap sticky it has alot of info on converting the rear suspension to take the rear brakes. or u can get a brace for lack of better words like what hybrid has on his b12. fast brakes makes a rear drum to disc conversion for the b14 that uses a brace much like hybrids so u might want to look into that cause im not 100% on that. it looks like it would fit though. THE FRONTS WILL NOT FIT IN WHEELS SMALLER THAN 14in! jsut wanted to make that clear so u dont go buy them then cant put them on.....and even on some 14's they dont fit. anyways i think the nx2000 and the stanza have the same booster or similar in strength but again i am not 100% on that. as for the master cylinder i think all cars bassed on the b13 cna swap wiht b13's and b12's. oh and ur pulsar is based on a b12 if u did not know. i hope this helps.



thanks. and i knew that it was based on the B12  I suppose if i ever find a NX2000 in a junkyard i'll take advantage then see what i'd have to do to make it work. Although it would be awhile before I can afford bigger wheels and tires.


----------



## RockyB (May 3, 2002)

Gsolo said:


> would i be able to take the complete brake system from the NX2000 and put on my 87 pulsar XE ?


Yes, but you would have to use 14" rims or bigger.


Gsolo said:


> I know for the rear brakes i have to change hub, but front i take it would be ok. and i'm thinking if i'm basically using all brakes from nx2000 why not jsut use master cylinder and booster from it.


Why not? By using the entire system you wouldn't have to worry about proportioning for the fronts to rear. This is if you are going to rear disc. I don't know if there would have any effect on bigger fronts and stock drums in the rear.


Gsolo said:


> dont really want abs and i believe abs still goes through the main ecu does it not?


The abs controller is not needed to run the bigger abs brakes. You can use the abs system (calipers, rotors, MC, booster) without wiring up the abs sensor etc. But to use this system I believe your rims would have to be 15" or larger. The abs controller is a seperate unit and isn't part of the ecu. Yet, the ecu helps to aid the abs system with signals from sensors.

I hope this helps.
Rocky


----------



## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

are the abs brakes bigger??


----------



## RockyB (May 3, 2002)

Gsolo said:


> are the abs brakes bigger??


Yes, I believe the abs brakes are AD22VF.
Rocky


----------



## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

I was under the impression that AD22VF could be ABS or nonABS but that the ABS brakes were bigger ?? 
Also, would I benefit any by putting a bigger booster in without doing any other brake changes?


----------



## RockyB (May 3, 2002)

Gsolo said:


> I was under the impression that AD22VF could be ABS or nonABS but that the ABS brakes were bigger ??
> Also, would I benefit any by putting a bigger booster in without doing any other brake changes?


The ad22vf where on the nx2000 with abs. These are bigger then the ad18's. The ad18ve are on the sentra's and nx's without abs. By using the bigger booster, it helps aid the force of what you have to apply to the pedal to stop the car. For example, if you had bigger brakes put on and used the proper master and kept the smaller booster, you would say have to push 2-3x harder to stop the car in a quick stop. The MC helps to keep the proportion of the brakes(stopping the fronts before stopping the backs). The booster uses vacuum to assist in the force to which is applied by the pedal. Then calipers and pads and rotors are self-explanitory. I hope this helps.
Rocky


----------



## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

RockyB said:


> The ad22vf where on the nx2000 with abs. These are bigger then the ad18's. The ad18ve are on the sentra's and nx's without abs. By using the bigger booster, it helps aid the force of what you have to apply to the pedal to stop the car. For example, if you had bigger brakes put on and used the proper master and kept the smaller booster, you would say have to push 2-3x harder to stop the car in a quick stop. The MC helps to keep the proportion of the brakes(stopping the fronts before stopping the backs). The booster uses vacuum to assist in the force to which is applied by the pedal. Then calipers and pads and rotors are self-explanitory. I hope this helps.
> Rocky


I knew all that about brakes  i was just wondering if anyone had swapped boosters without upgrading there brakes. I know it would make less effort and make the brakes more touchy but would that be a good thing or bad thing in this case, cause i can see how to touchy is bad. My fiances Geo after I did brake work on it stops nice on pavement but on frost and ice you can't even touch the brake pedal.


----------



## Marty01 (Dec 20, 2004)

Red_Coupe said:


> Also I heared that drilled ,and sloted roters are not needed for street use. Simple ,because of the fact is your not drifting,or
> on a road course. so the brakes are not going to get hot.(hence the slotted,and drilled part.) right?
> So the lots of money you tie up in your cars brakes like most street people is not needed? true or not??well let me know if I'm on the right path..thx RED


for driller rotors.. these were conceived with racing in mind.. holes keeps things lighter.. simply put.. i wouldnt use these on the streets myself.. because holes in metal makes it prone to cracking which wouldnt be very good considering these are rotors..

slotted rotors.. these were made to allow the gases that occur when braking hard to escape and thus let you pads touch only the disc.. less fade... i personnally would swap stock for slotted rotors from brembo, power slot, or anyone else as they are NOT prone to cracking hence more reliable while still giving you more protection against brake fade..

in your shoes.. i would at least upgrade the drums to discs... and maybe even slotted discs all the way around.. just in case you decide to try out a solo or 2


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

Marty01 said:


> for driller rotors.. these were conceived with racing in mind.. holes keeps things lighter.. simply put.. i wouldnt use these on the streets myself.. because holes in metal makes it prone to cracking which wouldnt be very good considering these are rotors..
> 
> slotted rotors.. these were made to allow the gases that occur when braking hard to escape and thus let you pads touch only the disc.. less fade... i personnally would swap stock for slotted rotors from brembo, power slot, or anyone else as they are NOT prone to cracking hence more reliable while still giving you more protection against brake fade..
> 
> in your shoes.. i would at least upgrade the drums to discs... and maybe even slotted discs all the way around.. just in case you decide to try out a solo or 2



All read have upgraded to the AD18VB frts, and the rear discs next summer. thx for the info.

Chip-


----------



## Sixways (Jan 12, 2005)

So if you punk sentra owners  can steal the brakes from our pulsars, where do we go for brakes? 

I'm looking into buying a 87 pulsar SE and I know that you all said that the rotors are bigger on a 88-90 pulsar but dose the xe/se matter? because I have a 89 xe with a bad engine so if i could salvage the brakes for a little better proforance that'd be nice  

Last one I swear, the nx2000 brakes are bigger yes? dose any know by how much?

Sorry for bringing up old threads, but I really want to know.


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Sixways said:


> So if you punk sentra owners  can steal the brakes from our pulsars, where do we go for brakes?
> 
> I'm looking into buying a 87 pulsar SE and I know that you all said that the rotors are bigger on a 88-90 pulsar but dose the xe/se matter? because I have a 89 xe with a bad engine so if i could salvage the brakes for a little better proforance that'd be nice
> 
> ...



The XE uses the CL18B brakes, same as sentra. If you want to upgrade the SE brakes go with the AD22 (NX2000), they are hoooj in comparison to the AD18. Need bigger than stock wheels to run the AD22 though. I think all this was covered somewhere in this thread. Do a search on AD22 or AD22V or AD22VF.


----------



## Sixways (Jan 12, 2005)

Alright thanks. I just wanted to be sure before I go ripping into the brake system of some junkyard heap. 15's should clear right:cheers:
I've herd of some nx2k guys using the brakes off of later model maxams or some thing. would I be able to use those too? I don't know what kind they are though.


----------



## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

15s will be fine


----------



## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

Sixways said:


> Alright thanks. I just wanted to be sure before I go ripping into the brake system of some junkyard heap. 15's should clear right:cheers:
> I've herd of some nx2k guys using the brakes off of later model maxams or some thing. would I be able to use those too? I don't know what kind they are though.


if they can use them then i'm sure with some work you can use them. But find out what maxima's and do some research. open a new thread and let us know so we can dwelve into it as well cause if bigger maxima brakes fit nx2ks then they could filter down to fitting sentras. although i can't see maxima brakes being any bigger than ad22vf


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

Gsolo said:


> if they can use them then i'm sure with some work you can use them. But find out what maxima's and do some research. open a new thread and let us know so we can dwelve into it as well cause if bigger maxima brakes fit nx2ks then they could filter down to fitting sentras. although i can't see maxima brakes being any bigger than ad22vf



well I know that the 240's and the 300zx clans swap braking systems . But with this it's a 5lug instead of a 4 lug. so u prob. have to use a booster,knuckles, amd all the goodies. the 300,and max use almost the same set up IIRC.

To promote such drastic things, you would have to have a sentra on crack 10x over to need such braking power. I would lean to saying no need for such things. the AD22VF
is more the find to do it's job for the sentra,NX clan.


----------



## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

Red_Coupe said:


> well I know that the 240's and the 300zx clans swap braking systems . But with this it's a 5lug instead of a 4 lug. so u prob. have to use a booster,knuckles, amd all the goodies. the 300,and max use almost the same set up IIRC.
> 
> To promote such drastic things, you would have to have a sentra on crack 10x over to need such braking power. I would lean to saying no need for such things. the AD22VF
> is more the find to do it's job for the sentra,NX clan.


it would be unique though if someone did fudge them on


----------



## mille-16i (Jun 16, 2004)

Red_Coupe said:


> well I know that the 240's and the 300zx clans swap braking systems . But with this it's a 5lug instead of a 4 lug. so u prob. have to use a booster,knuckles, amd all the goodies. the 300,and max use almost the same set up IIRC.


You do not need to swap over to the five lug most people do it for the wheel selection being much larger than that of the weird 4 lug pattern of a 240 it is not like the B12 4 on 100 or the B11 4 on 112.5 or something like that. Aslo all you need is the rotors (redrilled if not swaping to 5 lug) calipers and backing plate since the 240 is factory 4 wheel disc in the rear the E brake is diff.

I have a question we have all been over the front brakes and know what is what props to myet good info. But I want rear discs and have a ? on that now no B12's came factory with rear disc in the states but they did in europe and japan. Now if I could get my hands on a set of rear Sunny spindles could I then just bolt up B13 SE-R rear discs or say NX2K rears. I have read many threads about custom fabing and this and that and it frankly scares me to think of fabbing a brake system your just a weak weld away from a bad trip into the back side of an SUV. Thanks for any help that you can give also if anyone has the nissan part number for that rear spindle please do share.


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

mille-16i said:


> You do not need to swap over to the five lug most people do it for the wheel selection being much larger than that of the weird 4 lug pattern of a 240 it is not like the B12 4 on 100 or the B11 4 on 112.5 or something like that. Aslo all you need is the rotors (redrilled if not swaping to 5 lug) calipers and backing plate since the 240 is factory 4 wheel disc in the rear the E brake is diff.
> 
> I have a question we have all been over the front brakes and know what is what props to myet good info. But I want rear discs and have a ? on that now no B12's came factory with rear disc in the states but they did in europe and japan. Now if I could get my hands on a set of rear Sunny spindles could I then just bolt up B13 SE-R rear discs or say NX2K rears. I have read many threads about custom fabing and this and that and it frankly scares me to think of fabbing a brake system your just a weak weld away from a bad trip into the back side of an SUV. Thanks for any help that you can give also if anyone has the nissan part number for that rear spindle please do share.




I know the rear disc brakes on the euro and the J-spec RZ-1 
sunnys are the same as the b-13 SE-R and the NX2000's . thay all had the rear strut brace. please remember that the
us sentra had the E-seris engine and didn't need a better susp. the euro and jspec all have the CA16DE.


----------



## mille-16i (Jun 16, 2004)

so all I need for a clean unmodified rear disc setup is the spindles from a JDM sunny and I can then put NX2000 rears which rear discs are better SER or NX2K or are they the same. Wonder if nissan still makes replacement spindles for this old of a car? Or where I may be able to find some.


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

well I would go that far yet. I know that the nx, and the ser are one in the same. in the rear discs. Charles, and Kevin swapped info on a braket that will make the drum to disc convertion with ease. I don't know if he did anything with that,I know it's working on his b12 very well. if any thing drop aline to him or fastbrakes. thay took the tech and made the drum to disc for the b13's .. so I hope this helps. I haven't ventured into mine yet. just the frounts for now.


----------



## mille-16i (Jun 16, 2004)

so the sunny rears is still a big unknown that is where I want to go since it is factory and should have saftey and reliability far exceeding anything I could come up with and probably cheaper if it works.


----------



## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

yes. unless someone that has done the swap will spill the beans and hand over all. but it seems to be that way for the most part. I would let you know if I had time to do the rear swap. I had to stop my wife is having are second baby tomarrow.  :banana: :jawdrop: so for a few days anyway... let me call my friend in europe and get the dirt for the both of us


----------



## mille-16i (Jun 16, 2004)

well congrates on the second baby adn yeah please do get ahold of your friend in euro. I would love to get my hands on the spindles or hell even the whole set up if need be tehn just run a SE-R or NX2K master and booster with NX2K abs fronts and all should run like if nissan did it themselves I hope. And cost is not that much of a deterant just a hinderant my dad used to always tell me when we built cars you can scimp on the intake get a genaric cam weld your own exaughst but your brakes are worth every penny.


----------



## gERVs (Sep 3, 2003)

Seeing as pulsars only have the option for drums in the back, I went with the AD22VF swap out. Here is the difference comparing the pulsar SE(87 with ca16 though) stock and the AD22VF.


















I don't have any pics comparing the calipers though.


----------



## Myetball (Dec 15, 2002)

Alright, it's been a while but I have some more info on the AD18V upgrade. If using B13 brakes, there are actually three different calipers with three different sized pads. Here they are from smallest to largest.

B13 w/GA16DE
B13 SE-R w/SR20DE w/o ABS
B13 SE-R w/SR20DE w/ABS

Obviously the way to go would be either of the SR20DE equipped B13s. The pads I have pictured on the first page are actually the GA16DE pads and don't even fit in the SE-R w/ABS calipers.


----------



## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

Myetball said:


> I was checking my Mitchell CD and it says the B12 wagon used AD18VB calipers too. Anyone ever look into that?


i know this is several years down the road, but figured it relevant.

was looking through my b12 FSM and found that at least one of the b12 sentras used AD18V brakes. i'd assume this was both on sport coupes and wagons, as they had 14" alloy options.


----------



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

All of the B12 wagons I've owned [2WD or 4WD] used the AD18V's with vented rotors. I don't know what the sport coupes used. The B12 wagon AD18V's are just a bit different than the B13 SE-R calipers though.


----------



## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

blownb310 said:


> All of the B12 wagons I've owned [2WD or 4WD] used the AD18V's with vented rotors. I don't know what the sport coupes used. The B12 wagon AD18V's are just a bit different than the B13 SE-R calipers though.


they're probably the same AD18's that were on the pulsar SE. with that in mind, will pulsar SE AD18V's fit under 13" steelies? or did wagons always come with 14" alloys?


----------



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

sonicgundam said:


> or did wagons always come with 14" alloys?


No, all wagons came with 13" steel wheels. That's one of the differences between the different AD18V calipers right there. The wagon brakes don't require 14" wheels like the B13 SE-R brakes do.


----------



## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

blownb310 said:


> No, all wagons came with 13" steel wheels. That's one of the differences between the different AD18V calipers right there. The wagon brakes don't require 14" wheels like the B13 SE-R brakes do.


alright, and are wagon brakes the same as pulsar SE brakes? i'll be putting my enkei 92's on in a couple days, and i'll check whether i've got AD's or CL's


----------



## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

unfortunately my sportcoupe has CL18's, to clarify.


----------



## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

blownb310 said:


> No, all wagons came with 13" steel wheels. That's one of the differences between the different AD18V calipers right there. The wagon brakes don't require 14" wheels like the B13 SE-R brakes do.


mike, just wanted to clear something up here...

it's been claimed that AD18VE brakes require 14" wheels, but they were the stock brakes on NX1600's and GA16DE B13's as well, were they not?

that being said, the brakes should fit under 13" wheels.

reason i want to know, is because i want to run 215/50/13 V710's fpr autocross.


----------



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

sonicgundam said:


> mike, just wanted to clear something up here...
> 
> it's been claimed that AD18VE brakes require 14" wheels, but they were the stock brakes on NX1600's and GA16DE B13's as well, were they not?
> 
> ...


I can't say for sure, but I think the rotor being used might be what makes the difference. I believe that the SE-R front rotors are larger in diameter than the B12 wagons and other two models you mentioned. 

Mike


----------



## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

blownb310 said:


> I can't say for sure, but I think the rotor being used might be what makes the difference. I believe that the SE-R front rotors are larger in diameter than the B12 wagons and other two models you mentioned.
> 
> Mike


that would have to mean that the point on the knuckle where the torque member bolts to the knuckle is longer on an SE-R. which is possible, as the knuckle will be a little different. or the torque members on GA power b13's are shorter than those of an SE-R

what i'm getting at though, is if a B13 sentra XE also comes with AD18VE brakes, and so does an NX1600, and the standard wheel size for those cars is 13x5.5, why are 14" wheels required? frankly they shouldn't be, regardless of rotor size. the caliper will always be the farthest point from the hub center.

what i'm getting at, is for people that wan't to do this brake upgrade, but don't have larger wheels yet, should grab their brakes from a lower model B13


----------



## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

ok so i was wrong.

GA powered B13's use CL18V calipers. upgraded versions of b12 calipers that use a vented rotor.


----------

