# **FIGHTING FLORIDA SPEEDING TICKET!!**



## tme1129 (Mar 26, 2005)

tonight i was pulled over in my black 1995 nissan 240sx. i was doing supposedly 61 in a 45, and pulled over by a vero beach city police officer ( i know, the side of hte car said vero beach public saftey), he pulled me over, wrtoe me a 180 dollar speeding ticket. only problem is, where he clocked me, and where i was pulled over, are both outside of the vero beach city limit. now, i am unaware if vero beach is in a mutual aid act with indian river shores, but its apparent to me that this cop pulled me over an cited me outside of his jurisdiction. i am researching it now, and will be taking it to court. any help/advice/comments would be appreicated.


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## Will (Jan 2, 2004)

Good luck with that one. I believe city police have jurisdiction in a designated area beyond their city limits sign. I believe you were more likely pulled over because you were driving a 240sx


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

the city prolly has a jurisdiction deal with the county. Fighting it due to whatever jurisdiction rules you think apply is a quick way to waste your time in court. You're basically admitting guilt right off the bat, and the judge will take it as such.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

doesn't matter if you are guilty if the ticket process was completed incorrectly he gets off on a technicality.

Seth


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## sentra97gxe (Mar 17, 2004)

sethwas said:


> doesn't matter if you are guilty if the ticket process was completed incorrectly he gets off on a technicality.
> 
> Seth


Depends on the judge and how much of a dick he is. I got pulled over by a cop and believe he was out of jurisdiction and he also wrote the color of my car wrong on the ticket. I was told that since the ticket wasn't filled out correctly that it was void. I called the judge to get a continuance so I could get ready and he wanted to know why. When I told him what I was gonna prove he said that it didn't matter if I was guilty of the ticket. While I still believe that is BS cuz first off, how does the cop write the car color wrong when he has your registration infront of him? And second, if the dumb cop stayed in his jurisdiction he would have never been around to pull me over.

Mitch


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## snowcrash1984 (Sep 22, 2005)

Well, the bad part is this. “If you are not cop, you are little people”. Remember Blade Runner? Most likely you are wasting your time. And the other thing is, you are guilty. The law may be silly, the cop may be a chicken that insults honest citizens and not interested in crime fighting, but it’s always being like that. Don’t waist your time and invest some money in a good radar detector.


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## tme1129 (Mar 26, 2005)

the thing is, i was driving a drunk friend home, and when i was pulled over, i saw a yellow mercedes convertible fly by, easily doin 100, he went by twice. the other thing is, he had my registration and everything, but on the ticket , he puts down make as nissan, and model as 2door. damn cop cant even read an insurance card..... but he was outsdie of his jurisdiction, and i am researching the florida mutual aid act, so my court date is november 15th, i will def. keep thsi updated to let you guys know how it goes.


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## tme1129 (Mar 26, 2005)

oh yea, an as far as radar detectors, i have a Belltronics model 65, an it didnt pick him up, so i will be writing them a letter, too.


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## xbrandonx (Mar 27, 2004)

tme1129 said:


> oh yea, an as far as radar detectors, i have a Belltronics model 65, an it didnt pick him up, so i will be writing them a letter, too.


did he get you with a radar or a lazer gun?

also where is your detector mounted?


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## nvd sentra se (Sep 25, 2005)

you should have ask him to let you see the radar gun to actually see what speed he clocked you at


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## black_ser95 (Mar 19, 2004)

pay the ticket and get on with life or take it to a lawyer, wasting your own time


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## alexnds (Oct 1, 2005)

*speeding ticket fighting it*



tme1129 said:


> the thing is, i was driving a drunk friend home, and when i was pulled over, i saw a yellow mercedes convertible fly by, easily doin 100, he went by twice. the other thing is, he had my registration and everything, but on the ticket , he puts down make as nissan, and model as 2door. damn cop cant even read an insurance card..... but he was outsdie of his jurisdiction, and i am researching the florida mutual aid act, so my court date is november 15th, i will def. keep thsi updated to let you guys know how it goes.


My advice my friend, is that cops are assholes that would rather write tickets than go after real law breakers, pedophiles and rapists. You see, those people shoot back and put the cops in danger. Fairly honest people that go about their business and make a living are easy targets for cops. They think the ARE the LAW, and they are not PROTECTORS of the public and SERVING the LAW. Don't fight the ticket on a jurisdictional basis. You are admitting you're guilty of speeding. Hire a lawyer ,and get the ticket reduced to a lower type citation. The cost of the lawyer is less than the cost of your insurance and the 2 points on your license. 

Let the lawyer advise you. Then, get a radar detector man. But, fight the idea you were speeding in the first place. Ask if the gun was calibrated. Ask what proof that they had the speed was accurate. Was speed accurate w.r.t. to standing cop car or moving cop car? What is the percentage of error for that radar gun model? How long ago was that radar gun calibrated?
If for example, you are 15 mph over the limit, it's 2 points, but if you are 16-20 mph over the limit, it's 3 points. Why do you think he said you were doing 61 mph instead of 60mph? That extra 1 mph puts you into the next catagory.


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## 240sxstud (Sep 20, 2005)

black_ser95 said:


> pay the ticket and get on with life or take it to a lawyer, wasting your own time


Take it to a lawyer, paying for the ticket gives you points, and by the time you pay for all the court costs doing it yourself, you'll be way over 180..take it to a lawyer and get it reduced to a non moving violation, and take it from me...just don't speed, or if you do don't go more than 5-6 mph over. I don't like doing that but it's worth it in the end by the time you're done paying thousands in tickets/court costs


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## skootz1 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Traffic School*

Can you go to traffic school? Its will keep it from your insurance, making the whole experience cheaper in the long run. Or go to court and admit you were speeding and ask for a reduction. As far as your radar, maybe he didnt even clock you at all and he guessed thats what you were going. You have to eb careful how you answer when you speak to them. You may have admitted guilt without even knowing it.


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## Acceler8ter (Feb 5, 2005)

You didn't mention to the cop you were going to take it to court did you? Cause then you have really screwed yourself. Because he walks back to his cruiser, writes down really detailed notes about EVERYTHING and you look like a jackass in front of the judge. However, if you didn't mention it. It is VERY likely the cop won't even remember which direction you were going, in which case, the ticket will be dropped.

Oh, jurisdiction doesn't mean shit! All he has to do is contact the department which has jurdisdication in that area, inform that what he is doing. And if they okay it, he can ticket you.

Also, did you happen to get maybe even a partial plate off that Mercedes that was speeding? If so, its worth mentioning it in court. You have to remember that cops have huge egos so if you can make him look incompetent and an idiot. It'll ruin his day and cause him a shitload of aggravation because now he has to deal with his supervisor wondering if he is still qualified enough to keep his job.


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## Sorority Demon (Jul 15, 2005)

If you were speeding inside his jurisdiction, he has the right to pull you over outside of it. I was clocked at 120mph :bs: in michigan a few years ago and was pulled over 23 miles from where I was supposedly going that fast.

I got out of it because I had proof that the car I was driving was not capable of those kind of speeds. It was my old 95 Chevy Lumina, which was governed at 108, so the ticket was thrown out


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## skootz1 (Oct 12, 2005)

CAN YOU GO TO TRFFIC SCHOOL?


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## Kindfiend (Oct 13, 2004)

Acceler8ter said:


> You didn't mention to the cop you were going to take it to court did you? Cause then you have really screwed yourself. Because he walks back to his cruiser, writes down really detailed notes about EVERYTHING and you look like a jackass in front of the judge. However, if you didn't mention it. It is VERY likely the cop won't even remember which direction you were going, in which case, the ticket will be dropped.
> 
> Oh, jurisdiction doesn't mean shit! All he has to do is contact the department which has jurdisdication in that area, inform that what he is doing. And if they okay it, he can ticket you.
> 
> Also, did you happen to get maybe even a partial plate off that Mercedes that was speeding? If so, its worth mentioning it in court. You have to remember that cops have huge egos so if you can make him look incompetent and an idiot. It'll ruin his day and cause him a shitload of aggravation because now he has to deal with his supervisor wondering if he is still qualified enough to keep his job.


You have some interesting misconceptions about cops... at least as far as the court process is involved. The Judge doesn't want to hear a cop is incompetent, he doesn't care really. The word of the cop will always take precedence over yours. 

I agree about the egos and such, but not all are like that. I find if you don't give them a reason to dislike you, they will generally let you off unless you were doing something stupid. Just look out for the younger cops, they are the ones that seem to have the "attitude". I guess the high school losers who get their badge and gun think they should make everyone elses lives miserable. All cause they couldn't get laid... I hate those cops.


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## Acceler8ter (Feb 5, 2005)

Kindfiend said:


> You have some interesting misconceptions about cops... at least as far as the court process is involved. The Judge doesn't want to hear a cop is incompetent, he doesn't care really. The word of the cop will always take precedence over yours.
> 
> I agree about the egos and such, but not all are like that. I find if you don't give them a reason to dislike you, they will generally let you off unless you were doing something stupid. Just look out for the younger cops, they are the ones that seem to have the "attitude". I guess the high school losers who get their badge and gun think they should make everyone elses lives miserable. All cause they couldn't get laid... I hate those cops.


Misconceptions? No, not really. Also, I didn't say anything about proving the cop wrong. I said you can make him look bad. You'll still get your ticket but he will most likely end up under investigation. Also, I wasn't saying to say the cop is incompetent. Just say what was going on and it'll make him FEEL that way, and other people will QUESTION his actions.

If you want to know some shit about how the majority of police officers think. Read the book: Speeders guide to avoiding tickets. It is written by a police officer and he goes into detail about how you can use their ego and fear against them. It is very useful information. I found it by chance in a Barnes & Noble.


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## Kindfiend (Oct 13, 2004)

Acceler8ter said:


> Misconceptions? No, not really. Also, I didn't say anything about proving the cop wrong. I said you can make him look bad. You'll still get your ticket but he will most likely end up under investigation. Also, I wasn't saying to say the cop is incompetent. Just say what was going on and it'll make him FEEL that way, and other people will QUESTION his actions.
> 
> If you want to know some shit about how the majority of police officers think. Read the book: Speeders guide to avoiding tickets. It is written by a police officer and he goes into detail about how you can use their ego and fear against them. It is very useful information. I found it by chance in a Barnes & Noble.


Touche. I missread some of that, which will happen from time to time when you're skimming while at work.  

I haven't read that book, but I have heard of it. Most of my experience has been from personal dealings.


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## Acceler8ter (Feb 5, 2005)

Kindfiend said:


> Touche. I missread some of that, which will happen from time to time when you're skimming while at work.
> 
> I haven't read that book, but I have heard of it. Most of my experience has been from personal dealings.


Yeah I know what you mean.

Yeah a lot of mine has been too. For some instances when you deal with a cop you have to step back and look at it from the cops view. The book gives you examples of such instances. I've gotten out of quite a few tickets before this book, and I didn't think much of it. But after reading the book, I thought about it and I realized what I did to get out of it. It's simple stupid stuff you'd never think about either.


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## captain_shrapnel (Sep 10, 2004)

Acceler8ter said:


> Yeah I know what you mean.
> 
> Yeah a lot of mine has been too. For some instances when you deal with a cop you have to step back and look at it from the cops view. The book gives you examples of such instances. I've gotten out of quite a few tickets before this book, and I didn't think much of it. But after reading the book, I thought about it and I realized what I did to get out of it. It's simple stupid stuff you'd never think about either.


I read that book as well, good info from an x-cop. Jurisdiction doesn't really matter if someone is obviously breaking the law. Even a citizen can make an arrest... Forget the radar detector, spend your money on something useful like a lawyer. He probably goes golfing with the DA and the Judge and thats exactly what you need on your side. Lawyers are worth every penny, and I will never go back to court without one!


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## tme1129 (Mar 26, 2005)

TA DA!!!!!!!! not 1 hour in the court room, and i am victorious. when i brought up the mutual aid act, the cop's face practically dropped, an every1 on the court room knew that i had them on a technicality! so dont let anyone ever tell you that you cant fight the cops, becase with no real legal knowledge i got his ass! thanks for all the support, and even more for the doubt, it only fueled me further.


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## black_ser95 (Mar 19, 2004)




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## Slayer2003 (Jun 4, 2003)

Why do people keep trying to fight tickets? It's like every week there's a new dumbass caught speeding, and think it's the cops fault.




STOP SPEEDING!!!!!


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## S&S-Ralli (Oct 31, 2005)

<<My advice my friend, is that cops are assholes that would rather write tickets than go after real law breakers, pedophiles and rapists. You see, those people shoot back and put the cops in danger.>>

Yes, cops write speeding tickets. It is one small portion of a police officers job. Speed limits are set for a reason, can you imagine a society with no limits with the automobiles today. I would say, a ticket is much easier to pay for, than say a paint job, or heaven forbid, a casket. Many times, tickets are issued because of conditions (ie:time of day, weather, traffic). The pre-conceived notion that cops are assholes because of speeding tickets rather irratates me. You people have to understand that a job as an officer encompases many fields, all in which contain different elements of danger. Also winning a ticket in court does not really bruise a cops ego. Writing the paint color of the car wrong will not cost him/her their job. Think of it this way, he probably still got overtime for going to court. Stop speeding, going 60 in a 55 will only get you someplace 5 min. quicker on a 60 mile trip. Keep it on the track.


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## alexnds (Oct 1, 2005)

*tickets, Law enforcement and Cars*



S&S-Ralli said:


> <<My advice my friend, is that cops are assholes that would rather write tickets than go after real law breakers, pedophiles and rapists. You see, those people shoot back and put the cops in danger.>>
> 
> Yes, cops write speeding tickets. It is one small portion of a police officers job. Speed limits are set for a reason, can you imagine a society with no limits with the automobiles today. I would say, a ticket is much easier to pay for, than say a paint job, or heaven forbid, a casket. Many times, tickets are issued because of conditions (ie:time of day, weather, traffic). The pre-conceived notion that cops are assholes because of speeding tickets rather irratates me. You people have to understand that a job as an officer encompases many fields, all in which contain different elements of danger. Also winning a ticket in court does not really bruise a cops ego. Writing the paint color of the car wrong will not cost him/her their job. Think of it this way, he probably still got overtime for going to court. Stop speeding, going 60 in a 55 will only get you someplace 5 min. quicker on a 60 mile trip. Keep it on the track.


Here's some facts: Cars are electronically limited in terms of their ability to exceed their tire rating. As a car travels faster, heat builds up and that's why you have "H", V" and so forth rather tires. Thus, most cars are limited to 135Mph, otherwise, their tires might simply blow from heat buildup. The fact of the matter, is that a speed limiter cuts off fuel at a predetermined speed and engine load. However, while nobody in the US ever goes as fast as a 135 Mph, except on a race track, the capability of governing the speed of a car is the same, whether you set the limit at 135 mph, or 80mph. Thus, technology exists TODAY that can prevent a car from ever reachinng beyond a certain speed. All autos, in fact, could be governed to not exceed 70mph with the same electronics that allow a car not to exceed 135mph. A combination of fuel cutoff or applying ABS brakes could be easily engineered into cars.

However, the automobile manufacturers continously produce "Sexy" image cars, with powerful engines and these so called image cars are what helps them sell other products in their product line. These cars, are typically sports cars or sports sedans. Let me ask all of you a logical question: why does the Pontiac GTO produce 400 hp in a car that weighs approximately 3000 lbs, so that a driver will NEVER use any of that power? Why does the Mercury Marauder produce nearly 400 Hp at the crank? Why does the V8 Ford Mustang exist? As a grocery getter? Even todays 4 Cylinder 1.8 Liter motors produce at least 120 HP in a car, like the Corolla, that only weighs about 2000 lbs. In the past, such a car had a 65HP motor or less. 

The real question about speeding does not come down to lack of respect for the law, or police officers. The real question of speeding comes down to the fact that the insurance industry thrives on charging surcharges, so they get paid. The officers write tickets, so the city gets paid and so forth. If we were really serious about speeding as a safety measure for the public, we could easily put speed governers on any car, regardless of power level. There's a whole automobile industry that relies on the powerful image created by a car with a very high power to weight ratio. That's why cars like the Corvette, Porche, Camaro, exist! If we were serious about public safety, we would limit power output of cars. We would put speed limiters in cars to trigger at 80mph, or less and so forth.

Your argument at "public safety" is hogwash. Driving safely and respect of the law is one thing. But it's not just the driver's responsibility to drive safely in relationship to road conditions. It is a vicious circle of income generation from the motoring public that everyone feeds off: insurance, auto manufacturers, police, and city revenue and so forth. Let's be for real here. Cops write tickets because its their job, but not out of a real concern for anybody's safety but their own.


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## Psch91 (May 18, 2002)

nvd sentra se said:


> you should have ask him to let you see the radar gun to actually see what speed he clocked you at


Radar guns are by law not allowed to keep the speed limit saved on it. They could show you the gun, but it wouldnt say your speed.

Radar detectors dont work most of the time. Cops can and will guesstimate your speed by eye and can use that to base their ticket off of. And usually, they turn on their gun when they see you, and dont leave it on before that. So by the time your radar detector picks up the signal its too late.

Is this your first ticket? My first ticket was for doing 72 in a 45, I got a lawyer and it was thrown out of court. Cost me all of 80 bucks (was in broward county/ fort lauderdale though)

Good luck, stop speeding.


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## snowcrash1984 (Sep 22, 2005)

alexnds said:


> Here's some facts: Cars are electronically limited in terms of their ability to exceed their tire rating. As a car travels faster, heat builds up and that's why you have "H", V" and so forth rather tires. Thus, most cars are limited to 135Mph, otherwise, their tires might simply blow from heat buildup. The fact of the matter, is that a speed limiter cuts off fuel at a predetermined speed and engine load. However, while nobody in the US ever goes as fast as a 135 Mph, except on a race track, the capability of governing the speed of a car is the same, whether you set the limit at 135 mph, or 80mph. Thus, technology exists TODAY that can prevent a car from ever reachinng beyond a certain speed. All autos, in fact, could be governed to not exceed 70mph with the same electronics that allow a car not to exceed 135mph. A combination of fuel cutoff or applying ABS brakes could be easily engineered into cars.
> 
> However, the automobile manufacturers continously produce "Sexy" image cars, with powerful engines and these so called image cars are what helps them sell other products in their product line. These cars, are typically sports cars or sports sedans. Let me ask all of you a logical question: why does the Pontiac GTO produce 400 hp in a car that weighs approximately 3000 lbs, so that a driver will NEVER use any of that power? Why does the Mercury Marauder produce nearly 400 Hp at the crank? Why does the V8 Ford Mustang exist? As a grocery getter? Even todays 4 Cylinder 1.8 Liter motors produce at least 120 HP in a car, like the Corolla, that only weighs about 2000 lbs. In the past, such a car had a 65HP motor or less.
> 
> ...



It’s a complex matter. Since the invention of the internal combustion engine and implications of it on the motor vehicle, manufacturers have been competing for a potential buyer. For some, it’s comfort, some fuel economy, and some speed. Different buyers look at the different aspects of the car. Surely, there’s a lot of money involved. Surely, insurance companies feed on the statistics and cops aren’t always concern with public safety. But going from the same argument, we could stop drug use by implying death penalty for any even minuscule amount of illegal drugs. I like the point made by alexnds.
Now how many of us are Christians???


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## AltibOi02 (May 30, 2005)

I dont know in about any other state but here in Texas the officer has jurisdiction in the whole state of Texas...now it doesnt mean they are going to pull someone over in a different city..(but could)...but they wont because the ticket could go to the city in which he pulled the person over....


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## S&S-Ralli (Oct 31, 2005)

"Here's some facts: Cars are electronically limited in terms of their ability to exceed their tire rating. As a car travels faster, heat builds up and that's why you have "H", V" and so forth rather tires. Thus, most cars are limited to 135Mph, otherwise, their tires might simply blow from heat buildup. The fact of the matter, is that a speed limiter cuts off fuel at a predetermined speed and engine load. However, while nobody in the US ever goes as fast as a 135 Mph, except on a race track, the capability of governing the speed of a car is the same, whether you set the limit at 135 mph, or 80mph. Thus, technology exists TODAY that can prevent a car from ever reachinng beyond a certain speed. All autos, in fact, could be governed to not exceed 70mph with the same electronics that allow a car not to exceed 135mph. A combination of fuel cutoff or applying ABS brakes could be easily engineered into cars.

However, the automobile manufacturers continously produce "Sexy" image cars, with powerful engines and these so called image cars are what helps them sell other products in their product line. These cars, are typically sports cars or sports sedans. Let me ask all of you a logical question: why does the Pontiac GTO produce 400 hp in a car that weighs approximately 3000 lbs, so that a driver will NEVER use any of that power? Why does the Mercury Marauder produce nearly 400 Hp at the crank? Why does the V8 Ford Mustang exist? As a grocery getter? Even todays 4 Cylinder 1.8 Liter motors produce at least 120 HP in a car, like the Corolla, that only weighs about 2000 lbs. In the past, such a car had a 65HP motor or less. 

The real question about speeding does not come down to lack of respect for the law, or police officers. The real question of speeding comes down to the fact that the insurance industry thrives on charging surcharges, so they get paid. The officers write tickets, so the city gets paid and so forth. If we were really serious about speeding as a safety measure for the public, we could easily put speed governers on any car, regardless of power level. There's a whole automobile industry that relies on the powerful image created by a car with a very high power to weight ratio. That's why cars like the Corvette, Porche, Camaro, exist! If we were serious about public safety, we would limit power output of cars. We would put speed limiters in cars to trigger at 80mph, or less and so forth.

Your argument at "public safety" is hogwash. Driving safely and respect of the law is one thing. But it's not just the driver's responsibility to drive safely in relationship to road conditions. It is a vicious circle of income generation from the motoring public that everyone feeds off: insurance, auto manufacturers, police, and city revenue and so forth. Let's be for real here. Cops write tickets because its their job, but not out of a real concern for anybody's safety but their own."

There are a few things that worry me about your argument:

First, you say that automobiles should be "governed", making your argument hypocritical. Meaning, you are taking away more rights than a police officer does when writing a speeding ticket.

Second, you are saying that speed limits should be taken away with a "governed" car that travels up to 80 m.p.h.. Thus making speed zones...ie:school zones, hospitals, curved roadways...non-existant. This I guess is beyond me. 

Third, you stated that the driver is not responsible for his/her vehicle driving in road conditions. See: I was driving when i sped and hit a guard rail, but really, it's not my fault...my insurance made me do it.

Public safety argument "hogwash", not really. Your argument really made no sense other than to state some facts in which i agree. There are different rated tires, and horsepower cars. Does this make a difference to a cop...no. So the argument is defunct.

I am a police officer, do I care about the public's safety, hell ya. I put my life on the line every shift for you, and your families. Yes I do write speeding tickets, is that my job, no. My job is to protect people around your speeding car. I live in a very snowy area, which often results in accidents, that resulted from speeding.

I guess the only thing that I was trying to say was be careful...slow down. There are places to speed. If you want to call me an ass-hole because one of my brothers wrote you a ticket, go ahead, it doesn't really bother me. Just remember who's shoulder you may have to cry on when you experience tragedy from speed...heaven forbid. And if that happens...my shoulder will still be there.

Omnes ad Unum


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## alexnds (Oct 1, 2005)

*Speeding, the Law, and public safety*



S&S-Ralli said:


> "Here's some facts: Cars are electronically limited in terms of their ability to exceed their tire rating. As a car travels faster, heat builds up and that's why you have "H", V" and so forth rather tires. Thus, most cars are limited to 135Mph, otherwise, their tires might simply blow from heat buildup. The fact of the matter, is that a speed limiter cuts off fuel at a predetermined speed and engine load. However, while nobody in the US ever goes as fast as a 135 Mph, except on a race track, the capability of governing the speed of a car is the same, whether you set the limit at 135 mph, or 80mph. Thus, technology exists TODAY that can prevent a car from ever reachinng beyond a certain speed. All autos, in fact, could be governed to not exceed 70mph with the same electronics that allow a car not to exceed 135mph. A combination of fuel cutoff or applying ABS brakes could be easily engineered into cars.
> 
> However, the automobile manufacturers continously produce "Sexy" image cars, with powerful engines and these so called image cars are what helps them sell other products in their product line. These cars, are typically sports cars or sports sedans. Let me ask all of you a logical question: why does the Pontiac GTO produce 400 hp in a car that weighs approximately 3000 lbs, so that a driver will NEVER use any of that power? Why does the Mercury Marauder produce nearly 400 Hp at the crank? Why does the V8 Ford Mustang exist? As a grocery getter? Even todays 4 Cylinder 1.8 Liter motors produce at least 120 HP in a car, like the Corolla, that only weighs about 2000 lbs. In the past, such a car had a 65HP motor or less.
> 
> ...



My arguments are as follows:
a) Manufacturers sell cars with too much power as a way to attract buyers to their entire model line. I don't see why we need cars like Dodge Vipers, Chevy Corvettes and Porche 911's on the road if a driver is NEVER allowed to be tempted to exercise any power of their automobile. In other words, if the goal is never to speed, and how fast you drive is up to you, not the car you have, why build a car whose mission by design is to be fast?

b) My argument about speed governing is to show that electronic systems exist that prevent a car from reaching top speed. However, anything approach top speed is very dangerous and I agree with you. But my argument is not about top speed or tire ratings. Rather, my argument is that technology exists that is capable of governing the speed of a car, and if you only need enough power to pass, for safety, governing all cars to not exceed say 80mph would then be very plausible. I'm arguing that electronic "nannies" already exist in cars anyhow. We have vehicle stability control. We have lane departure control. We have in Europe a system of infared cameras and land sonar that show distance between cars to be a safe following distance. But people tail-gate all the time anyhow. 

I'm not arguing against safe driving on public roadways. I'm arguing that there's a hypocritical, money driven approach in the whole system.

The bottom line is: electronics aids to driving are already present. No electronic aid can replace a calm, cool and in-control driver, but society has individuals of all sorts of temperments and backgrounds and driving skill levels. The bottom line, is if we want the maximum public safety on our roads, and since driving is a privelage not a right, the very same electronics that prevent top speed can be used to GOVERN ANY SPEED. We thus CAN ENGINEER INTO THE CAR the inability to speed. Is it treating drivers like children and not adults? Yes. But does it save lives? Very probably and across a higher percentage of the population than a police officer CAN EVER catch. If this is indeed the case, it calls into question WHY ARE WE NOT, in fact doing it? In fact, writing tickets to adults which should know better is in fact, another form of reprimindanding adults that act irresponsibly on our public roadways, so in fact, it is treating adults like children. But the difference is, we hit them in the pocket book, where it hurts, via insurance surcharges. Rather, we could have PREVENTED the unsafe behaviour and across a broader of spectrum of drivers to BEGIN WITH! So you tell me Mr. Officer, are we not trying to generate revenue for insurance companies and the cities?

Again, I'm not arguing for irresponsible behaviour. Quite the opposite. I'm arguing that we are not really into public safety across the largest percentage of cars and drivers, and this is more of a cycle of revenue generation.

c) Thirdly: respect of the Law. Let's talk about that a bit. I see plenty of times when a police car simply turns on its sirens when it simply doesn't want to stand at a red-light and wait for it to change like everyone else, and there's no emergency at all. I see plenty of times when I stopped a police officer and asked for direction and have gotten the rudest treatment in the world. I see plenty of times when police officers are so busy projecting a macho, in-control image that they forget that ordinary citizens are not criminals and are to be treated with some dignity and respect and in fact, pay officer's salaries. 

The problem I have with cops is not that I got a speeding ticket. I did when I was 18 or 19 and I'm 38 now and well past that stuff. The problem I have with cops and I feel most people do, is that they are so busy projecting an image of authority, they forget one thing: THEY SERVE the LAW, but they ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW, and they are not THEMSELVES the LAW. I see utter contempt by cops many times, for perfectly innocent people. If you're not a cop, you're little people. The enthusiasm of others responding on this thread I feel echoes my sentiments.

I was saved by cops once when I was hit by a speeding car and my car was side-swiped and caused me to crash and have a broken leg. I was the victim and not speeding at all. So I have no good thoughts on unsafe drivers. My thoughts are cops do an important and dangerous job and sometimes, they are the best face you've seen, but too often, in my experience they act not as friends of citizens. What ever happened to the cop that walked the beat and knew the neighborhood? He was a friend in the neighborhood. Not some arrogant bastards that sit in their cars acting above the very citizens that they're supposed to protect and respect. Respect my ASS. 
It's not about speeding, it's really about the relationship that cops DON'T have with ordinary citizens in the course of their everyday lives that makes them resented, not loved.

Let me repeat: It's not about speeding. The problem I have with cops and I feel most people do, is that they are so busy projecting an image of authority, they forget one thing: THEY SERVE the LAW, but they ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW, and they are not THEMSELVES the LAW.


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## black_ser95 (Mar 19, 2004)

somone please close this thread


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