# fake racer?



## PiNoKiO (Mar 23, 2004)

I want to buy a car. Nissan is my favorite make and therefore i want a sentra se-r or a 200sx or 240sx. Problem is that i cant drive stick and if i get a automatic then ppl may think im fake. Are there any opinions on racing an automatic car. Plus i dont think it would look right or sound right puttina a exhaust and intake to make it sound deep if u cant hear the gears change. What are your opinions?


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## Captain Obvious (Jan 2, 2004)

I have an auto and its fine 
sure you dont get that sound when you downshift but who cares?
an auto is only slightly slower than a manual but you can get shift kits for an auto
and being fake? well ask these people about you being fake when you have a sr20det and an auto tranny and you smoke em on the track 
haveing an auto is more streetable I think for a daily driver but for the track I perfer manual though


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

or simply learn to drive a manual..


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## zlr101 (Nov 17, 2003)

yeah look to see if a friend can teach you if you want to learn. if no one has one get a dirt cheap 5spd with some clutch left. if you live in a major city auto is ok. can someone help me on this thought? in some ways is an auto "better" then manual with a turbo i read that in a post here somewhere somthing about spooling but i might be dead wrong.


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## Enthalpy (Mar 17, 2004)

leaning to drive 5-spd is easy. If my mom can do it anyone can. dont be scared...just learn from a friend.


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## azRPS13 (Jun 7, 2003)

zlr101 said:


> can someone help me on this thought? in some ways is an auto "better" then manual with a turbo i read that in a post here somewhere somthing about spooling but i might be dead wrong.


Hahahaha.... Sorry, this isn't an answer to your hypothesis but it reminded me of a auto Eclipse GSX owner who lost to my friends stock Integra cause he didn't know how to "Turn On" the turbo with an auto :loser: ... sorry back on track now


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## zlr101 (Nov 17, 2003)

It is that button right next to the ejecto seat...lolol. AZ you got any pics/stats/price total of your car i might want to go CA next summer gonna try and save and budget money if you can shoot me an email [email protected]. Yeah if no one else read that crazy idea i had i might be hitting the crack to hard.


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## demon (Apr 27, 2004)

yeah, seriously just learn how to drive a stick. It isnt very difficult, hell, i taught my wife in one afternoon. You will love it, just find someone who knows how and get them to teach you.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

PiNoKiO said:


> I want to buy a car. Nissan is my favorite make and therefore i want a sentra se-r or a 200sx or 240sx. Problem is that i cant drive stick and if i get a automatic then ppl may think im fake. Are there any opinions on racing an automatic car. Plus i dont think it would look right or sound right puttina a exhaust and intake to make it sound deep if u cant hear the gears change. What are your opinions?


If you're serious about racing in any form (except street racing, which is the most hilarious thing ever in the US), you wouldn't care about how your car sounds or looks.


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

You can build a high powered auto. Take a look at Level 10 transmissions, they have everything for a performance automatic including a custom built racing trans.
http://www.levelten.com/store/import/packages/nissan.htm
http://www.levelten.com/store/import/packages/parts_nissan.htm

You can have your cake and eat it too.

Troy


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

Just say you are building it up for drag. Auto is king


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

Joel said:


> Just say you are building it up for drag. Auto is king


Even around a road course or a cone course, the driver that has his left foot free and his right hand available at all times has the edge.


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## Captain Obvious (Jan 2, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> Even around a road course or a cone course, the driver that has his left foot free and his right hand available at all times has the edge.


ya then you can learn to use your left foot for braking and that saves time


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## HWY_1_FUN (Apr 20, 2004)

*Dont Buy A Sentra*

Buy a 240sx! you will be riding in style and wont get made fun of. but you should get a stick so you can learn on therefore you wont have to bare the shame of an automatic.


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## CivicKiller (Apr 26, 2004)

learn how to drive stick its not that hard if you practice youll get it down in like a week.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

ReVerm said:


> Even around a road course or a cone course, the driver that has his left foot free and his right hand available at all times has the edge.


I think an auto is a signifcant disadvantage for road racing because you can't have full manual control of gear selection and delayed downshifts or the tranny kicking sown in the middle of a turn will really mess you up when driving hard.

Mike


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## nismo240sx (Apr 15, 2004)

autos suck, plan n simple. learn stick


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

morepower2 said:


> I think an auto is a signifcant disadvantage for road racing because you can't have full manual control of gear selection and delayed downshifts or the tranny kicking sown in the middle of a turn will really mess you up when driving hard.
> 
> Mike


Yeah, the shifts at weird times are definately an annoyance, but it's something you can work around for your usual track days.


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## logik23 (Mar 27, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> If you're serious about racing in any form (except street racing, which is the most hilarious thing ever in the US), you wouldn't care about how your car sounds or looks.


what's so hilarious about street racing? it's awesome to burn some guy off of a red light and or why not have organized races on the streets, there aren't enough drag strips around for everyone


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## 93blackSER (Feb 1, 2003)

logik23 said:


> what's so hilarious about street racing? it's awesome to burn some guy off of a red light and or why not have organized races on the streets, there aren't enough drag strips around for everyone


the fact that people know that cops are cracking down on street racers and yet they keep doing it and getting busted is hilarious. i know that locally, you'll get your car impounded, 6 points on your license for racing, plus the points you got for speeding cause you will be speeding, and then all the fines and lawyer fees for the tickets you got. you'll have to raise money to get the car out of the impound yard, and then sell it to pay off your tickets. and as far as the drag strip thing goes, they dont mean a damn thing in the eyes of someone who street races. a street racer isnt going to pull up to someone at a light and ask them to go to a drag strip. it's all about doing it illegally. why wait until a certain time to go to a certain place when you can do it any time and any place? that's what an idiot would tell you anyways. street racing is lame and people need to realize that.


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## lawabidn (Mar 28, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> Even around a road course or a cone course, the driver that has his left foot free and his right hand available at all times has the edge.


Tell this to a Driving Instructor at a NASA or SCCA event and they will laugh and laugh...

Ignorance must be bliss, but the fact is a manual gives more control as you have more responsive throttle, lower and better gear ratios (ie, accell faster), plus you can use the engine as a brake and save your pads and rotors.

You can still left foot brake if need be (I dont understand how someone can think other wise... you foot isnt glued to the clutch pedal!?!) and the only time your hand should be on the gearshift is when nessesary (once again, you hand isnt glued to it)

My advise is to attend a performance driving school and listen to a couple instructors, even take a ride....

I do guarantee that an automatic is not "the edge" unless you dragrace high powered cars and want consistent times

-corey


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## lawabidn (Mar 28, 2004)

ooops, double post


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## x0dyssey (Mar 26, 2004)

dont worry about the auto, i have an auto in my 240, its cool.... for now. Just think of it as a time to learn how ot handle the car. Im gonna leave the motor alone for about 7months then do my conversion. seriously just take this "auto" time to learn how to handle your car, once you switch to a manual you wont even notice the difference. Well excpet that you will be much faster


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

lawabidn said:


> Tell this to a Driving Instructor at a NASA or SCCA event and they will laugh and laugh...
> 
> Ignorance must be bliss, but the fact is a manual gives more control as you have more responsive throttle, lower and better gear ratios (ie, accell faster), plus you can use the engine as a brake and save your pads and rotors.
> 
> ...


I never said that a conventional automatic would give you an edge. I'm just saying that it's nice to have your right and left foot free at all times. What's funny is about your post is that a NASA driving instructor said something quite similar to what I said. He wasn't talking about an automatic either, just complaining about how much more efficient things would be if we didn't have a third pedal and a stick on the floor (and how much nicer it would be if the stick was closer to the wheel).

EDIT: If I introduced you to any of my instructors they'd probably yell in your face. "The engine is not a brake" will probably be the first thing out of their mouth.


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## lawabidn (Mar 28, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> I never said that a conventional automatic would give you an edge. I'm just saying that it's nice to have your right and left foot free at all times. What's funny is about your post is that a NASA driving instructor said something quite similar to what I said. He wasn't talking about an automatic either, just complaining about how much more efficient things would be if we didn't have a third pedal and a stick on the floor (and how much nicer it would be if the stick was closer to the wheel).
> 
> EDIT: If I introduced you to any of my instructors they'd probably yell in your face. "The engine is not a brake" will probably be the first thing out of their mouth.


As far as a "conventional automatic" I dont think this kids 240 is equipped with anything close to the tip-tronic style automatic installed in the M3s/porsche etc, nor is it smart enough to stay in the correct gear through corners, especially exiting corners. Thus throttle response is significantly affected, plus its just not smooth.... and remember just as the instructors say, "Slow and smooth is fast"

And no, the engine is not a brake but it is very effective to be in the correct gear exiting a corner. 

-Corey


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

lawabidn said:


> nor is it smart enough to stay in the correct gear through corners, especially exiting corners.


Sounds like you haven't driven a Nissan automatic for very long. With enough practice you can actually hold these things in gear through sheer pedal modulation. Automatics require training to drive hard around corners, but it's doable.

If you think of the effect that occurs when you release your accelerator pedal in a manual transmission car as "engine braking", you're thinking of it the wrong way. The way the people I've worked with think of it is that a manual transmission's accelerator is constantly in connection with the engine through the gear you're in. With an automatic transmission, that isn't the case. The difference? The "engine braking" mindset implies that cars with both transmissions can be driven the same way. This mindset emphasizes that different transmission type = different car.

BTW: The only reason I said "conventional auto" is because that isn't the case with CVTs. Because I didn't explicitly state that my statements were specific to his car, I thought I should clarify that. Oh, and the tiptronic system is just an automatic transmission with gear selection. It's a conventional auto (The BMW SMG system is not. Don't confuse it with that).


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## lawabidn (Mar 28, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> Sounds like you haven't driven a Nissan automatic for very long. With enough practice you can actually hold these things in gear through sheer pedal modulation. Automatics require training to drive hard around corners, but it's doable.
> 
> If you think of the effect that occurs when you release your accelerator pedal in a manual transmission car as "engine braking", you're thinking of it the wrong way. The way the people I've worked with think of it is that a manual transmission's accelerator is constantly in connection with the engine through the gear you're in. With an automatic transmission, that isn't the case. The difference? The "engine braking" mindset implies that cars with both transmissions can be driven the same way. This mindset emphasizes that different transmission type = different car.
> 
> BTW: The only reason I said "conventional auto" is because that isn't the case with CVTs. Because I didn't explicitly state that my statements were specific to his car, I thought I should clarify that. Oh, and the tiptronic system is just an automatic transmission with gear selection. It's a conventional auto (The BMW SMG system is not. Don't confuse it with that).


AS far as owning/driving auto nissans.... I'm a Nis Tech... I drive them often. But why have to train yourself and your driving style for a computer/valve controlled trans? Maybe I'm a control freak or something

your second paragraph for some reason is hard for me to follow, 

I know tiptronic trans are just normal autos, I've driven a SMG M3.... its simply stunning! definately idiot proof trans, and a marvel of automotive technology!

-corey


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

lawabidn said:


> AS far as owning/driving auto nissans.... I'm a Nis Tech... I drive them often. But why have to train yourself and your driving style for a computer/valve controlled trans? Maybe I'm a control freak or something
> 
> I know tiptronic trans are just normal autos, I've driven a SMG M3.... its simply stunning! definately idiot proof trans, and a marvel of automotive technology!
> 
> -corey


My sentiments exactly. Despite everything I've said so far, I hate conventional automatics. They shift at odd times if you're not paying attention to what you're doing, the shifts aren't even smooth, and those downshifts during braking... I can't get used to it. However, if you're just starting out and learning it's easier to learn a lot of stuff on an automatic (for example, if you don't kart and you can't shift without the clutch yet, it's pretty much the only place to learn left foot braking safely).

Clutchless sequential manuals are great. From what I've heard, they've really pretty much perfected the computer for it on more expensive machines, and all that's left for companies do is slowly phase them in. I can't wait til the day I can keep my right foot by the accelerator, my left foot by the brake, and my hands constantly on the wheel.


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## XsjadoTwin11 (Dec 31, 2003)

zlr101 said:


> in some ways is an auto "better" then manual with a turbo i read that in a post here somewhere somthing about spooling but i might be dead wrong.


you're right about that-- By having an auto and turbo u never have to take your foot off of the gas, inturn the turbo never has to release any pressure so it never has to re-spool, its basically constant boost as long as your foots on the gas pedal.. In a 5spd every time you change gears your lose boost because u have to let off the gas and engage the clutch.. (unless you power shift ALL the time-- big no no). So all things being equal your average 5spd turbo driver and your average auto turbo driver, the auto SHOULD win. (if im wrong someone correct me because that is what i thought to be true)


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

XsjadoTwin11 said:


> you're right about that-- By having an auto and turbo u never have to take your foot off of the gas, inturn the turbo never has to release any pressure so it never has to re-spool, its basically constant boost as long as your foots on the gas pedal.. In a 5spd every time you change gears your lose boost because u have to let off the gas and engage the clutch.. (unless you power shift ALL the time-- big no no). So all things being equal your average 5spd turbo driver and your average auto turbo driver, the auto SHOULD win. (if im wrong someone correct me because that is what i thought to be true)


Actually, automatic transmissions cut the throttle as they shift between gears so it is essentially doing the same thing (though the amount of time spent with the throttle off may be different). You can modify the system to eliminate this, but that apparently makes the shifts much rougher (quite understandable, because you're forcing it into gears like a no-lift power shift in a synchromesh transmission).


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## Gunmetal240 (May 2, 2004)

All but one of the vehicles I own are stick shifts. I actually learned to drive with a stick (Geo Metro) and would prefer anything else in a 5spd. I feel lucky that I found my 89 240sx in a five speed, every other one I saw around where I live is an auto. 

I think that the advantages of a five speed over an automatic is the FUN FACTOR. The firecracker sound you get when shifting at high rpm is something I like as well.


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

I bought an auto 02' SE-R even when I knew how to drive stick because of price. I've been considering converting to stick but in Baltimore's stop and go traffic, auto is convienent. I'de say learn stick, (it's not that hard) and then decide what type of tranny you'de prefer for your daily driver. Auto isn't that much slower than stick. Most of the people who talk the crap that autos suck are rather amusing. They either drive a total piece, can't drive stick themselves or don't even have a car at all. F--k em. Whatever car makes you happy, I say rock it with pride. If you have an auto SR20 that is turbo'd, you can kill pretty much any front wheel drive car on the street. If someone talks crap, flick em and smoke em. A stick Honda Civic Si is gonna get eaten alive by any SR20DET auto or otherwise.


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## Nizmodore (May 9, 2003)

Yes Autos are not fake at all.....Depends on your driving stlye etc.....Whats better a Auto or a Manual? Its like asking whats better a blond or a brunette?

They all have their advantages/drawback......live with them..... 

Who ever says Manuals are the be all and end all, shouldn't be on this forum, play with cars or breathe Oxygen..... :loser:


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## RacerJunkie (Apr 13, 2004)

NickZac said:


> Most of the people who talk the crap that autos suck are rather amusing. They either drive a total piece, can't drive stick themselves or don't even have a car at all. F--k em.
> 
> 
> > Hey now. I think auto's suck and (until quite recently) I had a pretty nice 5 spd car (then my best friend rolled it down the interstate, now I drive a POS Plymouth Voyager crapamatic....very tragic). And yeah, manuals are not the end all be all, but (in my personal experience) most people who can drive stickshift find it to be more enjoyable with better control of the car. That is why a lot of people think automatics suck ass.


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## Enthalpy (Mar 17, 2004)

This one has turned into a pissing contest. Lets try to stay on topic next time please?


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