# Starter won't crank. Solenoid clicks.



## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

I have a 97 1.6L Sentra manual transmission with a problem that has been getting worse and worse for about six months. When you turn the key, the starter solenoid clicks, but the motor itself doesn't turn. 

A little while ago, you could just turn the key again, and it would go fine. But gradually you had to turn the key more and more. Then yesterday it wouldn't start at all. 

I had the battery and starter tested at auto zone, and they told me to replace the battery. That didn't help. So I replaced the negative terminal as well, and also didn't fix the problem.

I'm posting a picture to confirm that we hooked the starter back up correctly when we reinstalled it, even though I'm pretty sure we did.










I think the wire on the right is a positive, but I'm not sure. The wire on the left goes to a ground on the car, and then to the negative terminal. Is this correct? If it is, what else could be causing the problem? We also held down the little sensor that tells the car the clutch is down, and that didn't help either. Any ideas?


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## Jdoggsc (Dec 25, 2007)

there's no picture posted.


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## Faja (Aug 31, 2009)

Did Autozone test the solenoid also?


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## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

Jdoggsc said:


> there's no picture posted.


My bad. Fixed.



Faja said:


> Did Autozone test the solenoid also?


According to Autozone, the starter will not work on their machine at all if the solenoid is bad. So yes, the solenoid should be good.


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## Faja (Aug 31, 2009)

spenc938 said:


> My bad. Fixed.
> 
> 
> 
> According to Autozone, the starter will not work on their machine at all if the solenoid is bad. So yes, the solenoid should be good.



If you have a second car or maybe a friend's - try jumping your battery and see if it starts on the first shot


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## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

The battery is fully charged. We tried jumping both the old one and the new one.

And if the battery was low, wouldn't the starter motor at least try to turn the car over? Right now it doesn't do anything at all. The solenoid just clicks.


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

As I've posted in other places, Autozone = garbage. And I think you just might get better info at McDonalds...
Just because the starter works on their machine doesn't mean it'll work in your car. Their machine probably has a nice solid 14v running thru it, your car maybe has 12.6v on a good day, maybe more if you've got the charger hooked up at the same time. Their machine has known good cabling, your car, maybe not so good.
Clean the heck out of the terminal, on the battery, on the starter itself, on both ends of both cables leading to and from the starter. Gotta have a good connection for the juice to get thru.
Next time you try it...and I know it'll be a bit of a stretch...hit the key, if the solenoid clicks and nothing else happens, give the side of the starter itself a good whack with something metal like a hammer. The commutator on the starter could be getting worn out. On those 'Autozone testers', the starter isn't under any kind of load, the power only has to kick the solenoid and spin the starter. In your car, you've got to run the ECU, run the dash lights, kick the solenoid, spin the starter AND your engine.
A couple of other things to try...
--Take the starter relay itself and swap it with another similar looking relay. There are a handful of relays in the relay box that'll work, just pick one and swap it out and see what happens.
--Next time it DOESN'T start, put the tranny in 5th gear, roll the car ahead 10-20ft or so, with it still in gear and your foot off the clutch (i.e. turn the engine a little bit), then try it again. Could be that the starter just doesn't want to engage at that particular point on the flywheel (not likely, but could happen), maybe it's all gummed up with crud in there.
In the end, it sounds to me like you've got a worn out starter. Not uncommon...just happens.


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## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

jdgrotte said:


> As I've posted in other places, Autozone = garbage. And I think you just might get better info at McDonalds...
> Just because the starter works on their machine doesn't mean it'll work in your car. Their machine probably has a nice solid 14v running thru it, your car maybe has 12.6v on a good day, maybe more if you've got the charger hooked up at the same time. Their machine has known good cabling, your car, maybe not so good.


I was thinking the same thing. As much as I don't want the starter to be the problem...



> Clean the heck out of the terminal, on the battery, on the starter itself, on both ends of both cables leading to and from the starter. Gotta have a good connection for the juice to get thru.


Tried that already.



> Next time you try it...and I know it'll be a bit of a stretch...hit the key, if the solenoid clicks and nothing else happens, give the side of the starter itself a good whack with something metal like a hammer. The commutator on the starter could be getting worn out.


Tried that already



> --Take the starter relay itself and swap it with another similar looking relay. There are a handful of relays in the relay box that'll work, just pick one and swap it out and see what happens.


I swear I checked the relay box and didn't see one for the starter. But I'll go look again and double check when I get home. Is there any other relay box besides the little one under the hood on the passenger side?



> --Next time it DOESN'T start, put the tranny in 5th gear, roll the car ahead 10-20ft or so, with it still in gear and your foot off the clutch (i.e. turn the engine a little bit), then try it again. Could be that the starter just doesn't want to engage at that particular point on the flywheel (not likely, but could happen), maybe it's all gummed up with crud in there.


Last time I went to drive it home from work it took us an hour and a half of tinkering to get it to start. It finally went, and I drove it home. Then we worked on it for four or five hours at home, and we can't get the motor to kick in. And, as I mentioned it has had this problem for months, so I don't think this is the issue.



> In the end, it sounds to me like you've got a worn out starter. Not uncommon...just happens.


That's my fear as well. But this car was a replacement work car for another work car that got totaled, and we've already put about 800 bucks into it. It's hard sinking money into a car this old when every time we fix something it only runs for a month. And I would like to eliminate as many of the other possible causes as i can before I spend another 150 on a starter. Especially since the dealership claimed that the starter was new.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that when we're turning the key and the starter clicks, the negative battery cable heats up. I'm not sure if the old one did this, but the new one is the same gauge. Is this normal?


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## pulsar86 (Aug 13, 2009)

Check with a multimeter to make sure you are getting 12 volts at the starter solenoid terminal. [the small wire on the solenoid.] There is also a slight chance that the problem might be in the ignition switch itself.


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## Faja (Aug 31, 2009)

Does the car work if you give it a push start?

Also, try turning on the lights and then start the car, see if the lights dim or not. If not, the solenoid is not pushing out enough amps to engage the starter. If it is dimming then the problem looks like it could be the starter itself.


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

spenc938 said:


> I was thinking the same thing. As much as I don't want the starter to be the problem...


If you're handy (and it sounds like you are), you could pull the starter itself apart, clean out the commutator bars, go down to the local hardware store, slap some new brushes in it, maybe even replace the bearings. After all of that, you've practically got yourself a brand new starter...for about 1/100th the cost of a new one...



> I swear I checked the relay box and didn't see one for the starter. But I'll go look again and double check when I get home. Is there any other relay box besides the little one under the hood on the passenger side?


The one next to the battery on the drivers side maybe?



> One other thing I forgot to mention is that when we're turning the key and the starter clicks, the negative battery cable heats up. I'm not sure if the old one did this, but the new one is the same gauge. Is this normal?


Ya that could possibly be *the most important information given so far*!!!
Sounds like something isn't wired up correctly, dead short from somewhere to somewhere else, like something on the starter itself isn't wired up right, going straight to ground instead of thru the starter windings themselves.
The negative cable shouldn't heat up all that much, even if you're cranking and cranking (with the motor actually turning this time).
And define 'negative cable heats up'... Sure it's not because you're feeling it and you are actually heating it up, or is it actually getting hot to the point of 'can't grab it because it's so hot'?
Also, put a meter across the battery...
What does it read for voltage:
1) with nothing on, doors closed, key out, lights off, everything off
2) headlights on bright, blower on full, foot on the brake, key on but not cranking, dome light on, etc...
3) everything off, but turning the key trying to crank the engine (but it's not 'cause something is wrong)
4) everything off, but turning the key to crank the engine (assuming you can get it to crank some time)
5) everything on like in #2, but trying to crank like in #3
6) everything on like in #2, but cranking like in #4 (again assuming you can get it to crank)
All this will really in troubleshooting the problem...


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## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

The only multimeter I've ever used was digital, but the only one I can find now is analog. And I have to admit, I have no idea how to read this thing. When I set the voltage to 50, and try to check the car battery, the needle goes halfway up... But it's not like the battery is 25 volts.


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

spenc938 said:


> The only multimeter I've ever used was digital, but the only one I can find now is analog. And I have to admit, I have no idea how to read this thing. When I set the voltage to 50, and try to check the car battery, the needle goes halfway up... But it's not like the battery is 25 volts.


Can't read an analog meter? That's like saying you can read a digital clock but can't read a round wall clock that has an hour and minute hand.
How difficult can it possibly be?
If you set the dial to the '50' scale, and you find the marks on the meter face that go from 0 to 50, then you read the marks in the middle along that same scale.
And I'd be willing to bet that the meter's scale isn't linear, probably a logarithmic scale. Read the scale!!!


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## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

jdgrotte said:


> Can't read an analog meter? That's like saying you can read a digital clock but can't read a round wall clock that has an hour and minute hand.
> How difficult can it possibly be?
> If you set the dial to the '50' scale, and you find the marks on the meter face that go from 0 to 50, then you read the marks in the middle along that same scale.
> And I'd be willing to bet that the meter's scale isn't linear, probably a logarithmic scale. Read the scale!!!


Reading it like that would mean that the car battery was at 25 volts with everything shut off. Which is not possible.


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## Faja (Aug 31, 2009)

spenc938 said:


> Reading it like that would mean that the car battery was at 25 volts with everything shut off. Which is not possible.


Just means Autozone sold you one of the super duper batteries that is coming for the 2020 cars!!! Now everything is going to go twice as fast!!! :idhitit:


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## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

Faja said:


> Just means Autozone sold you one of the super duper batteries that is coming for the 2020 cars!!! Now everything is going to go twice as fast!!! :idhitit:


I knew it!


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## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

jdgrotte said:


> The negative cable shouldn't heat up all that much, even if you're cranking and cranking (with the motor actually turning this time).
> And define 'negative cable heats up'... Sure it's not because you're feeling it and you are actually heating it up, or is it actually getting hot to the point of 'can't grab it because it's so hot'?


Yesterday when we were working on it, it got slightly warm to the touch. Today when I was taking measurements, it didn't heat up at all.



> Also, put a meter across the battery...
> What does it read for voltage:
> 1) with nothing on, doors closed, key out, lights off, everything off
> 2) headlights on bright, blower on full, foot on the brake, key on but not cranking, dome light on, etc...
> ...


I borrowed a different meter from a friend, and this one actually works. It's still an analog, and the readings are tiny, so these are rough measurements.

1) 13.5
2) 13
3) 13.5
4) Not possible to measure. Does not crank at all.
5) 13.5
6) Same as 4

And I noticed something that I'm almost embarrassed that we never noticed it before. The clicking sound occurs when I turn the key to run, not when I turn it to start. It clicks again when I turn it back to the ACC position. When I realized this, I went and listened to where the sound was coming from, and I don't think it's from the starter/solenoid. It sounds like it's coming from the fuel rail area. Do the Sentra's injectors click?

Sorry to not notice this before, but there were way too many people working on it yesterday to tell anything. Too many hands spoil the soup I guess...


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## Faja (Aug 31, 2009)

Excerpt taken from a different website:

If the starter or solenoid clicks but nothing else happens when you attempt to start the engine, there may not be enough amps to spin the starter. Or the starter may be bad. A poor battery cable, solenoid or ground connection, or high resistance in the solenoid itself may be the problem. A voltage check at the solenoid will reveal if battery voltage is passing through the ignition switch circuit. If the solenoid or relay is receiving battery voltage but is not closing or passing enough amps from the battery to spin the starter motor, the solenoid ground may be bad or the contacts in the solenoid may be worn, pitted or corroded. If the starter cranks when the solenoid is bypassed, a new solenoid is needed, not a starter.


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

spenc938 said:


> Reading it like that would mean that the car battery was at 25 volts with everything shut off. Which is not possible.


Do you know the difference between a linear scale and a logarithmic scale? If not, did you even bother to try and look up the word to see how to read a logarithmic scale?


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

spenc938 said:


> 1) 13.5
> 2) 13
> 3) 13.5
> 4) Not possible to measure. Does not crank at all.
> ...


Starter relay...not the solenoid...the starter relay...in the relay box...is bad...
and or the starter relay fuse...or the fuseible link. Obviously nothing happening when you hit the key to start the car.
Jumper across the clutch switch with wires, don't just hold the button, and try it again...
when that fails, jumper across the starter relay socket and see if that works...
when that fails, take a chunk of thick wire, hook one end up to the positive terminal of the battery, briefly touch the other end to the positive terminal on the starter... assuming the starter/solenoid is good, the starter will kick and the engine will turn over, then backtrack the wiring back to the failed relay/wire/key switch/whatever.
Do the lights on the dash change when you turn the key from RUN to START?
If not, you've probably got a bad key switch.


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## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

jdgrotte said:


> Starter relay...not the solenoid...the starter relay...in the relay box...is bad...
> and or the starter relay fuse...or the fuseible link. Obviously nothing happening when you hit the key to start the car.


I still can't find a starter relay. There is one relay box and two fuse boxes on the car. None of them contain a starter relay. I checked all the fuses related to the starter, and didn't find any that were bad.



> Jumper across the clutch switch with wires, don't just hold the button, and try it again...
> when that fails, jumper across the starter relay socket and see if that works...
> when that fails, take a chunk of thick wire, hook one end up to the positive terminal of the battery, briefly touch the other end to the positive terminal on the starter... assuming the starter/solenoid is good, the starter will kick and the engine will turn over, then backtrack the wiring back to the failed relay/wire/key switch/whatever.
> Do the lights on the dash change when you turn the key from RUN to START?
> If not, you've probably got a bad key switch.


I'll check all this tomorrow, but I would like to confirm where on the starter I'm supposed to jumper with the battery. Is it on the solenoid, or the starter itself?


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

spenc938 said:


> I still can't find a starter relay. There is one relay box and two fuse boxes on the car. None of them contain a starter relay. I checked all the fuses related to the starter, and didn't find any that were bad.


If you have a B14 chassis vehicle, you have a starter relay, somewhere in the relay box...somewhere. I'll let you find it. I'd post a picture of it, but that would be too easy.



> I'll check all this tomorrow, but I would like to confirm where on the starter I'm supposed to jumper with the battery. Is it on the solenoid, or the starter itself?


Pick one...
If you do the solenoid, and the positive cable is still hooked up, and it works, then you've just eliminated both the solenoid and the starter as the problem.
If you do the starter, and the positive cable is still hooked up, and it works, then you've just eliminated the starter as the problem (although the wire you use might melt down a bit 'cause it's likely too small to run the starter).
If you try both and neither works, then either you're not getting enough power down to the starter via the heavy cable (likely) or the solenoid and/or starter is bad.
Back in the day, we used to crawl under the car and jam a screwdriver across the 'S' terminal and the positive terminal on the solenoid of GM starters when the solenoid or key switch/wiring went bad as a quick fix for a pain in the ass problem until we could get to the shop to get a new starter.
Does that give you any ideas?


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## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

jdgrotte said:


> If you have a B14 chassis vehicle, you have a starter relay, somewhere in the relay box...somewhere. I'll let you find it. I'd post a picture of it, but that would be too easy.


This is the only relay box I can find. The other two boxes only have fuses.










It has twelve possible spots, none of which are labeled as starter. Out of those twelve, only four are used for this car. The four that are used are; air conditioning, clutch, radiator fan 1, and horn.

Edit: Oops. My cell phone resolution was turned down all the way. I can take a bigger picture if necessary.


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

spenc938 said:


> This is the only relay box I can find. The other two boxes only have fuses.....


Really...
Mine has a big ol' starter relay, along with a starter fuse...
Is this a USA car or something else?


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## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

jdgrotte said:


> Really...
> Mine has a big ol' starter relay, along with a starter fuse...
> Is this a USA car or something else?


It has a whole bunch of starter fuses, but I can't for the life of my find a starter relay.

And yes it's a USA car. As far as I know at least.


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## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

When we were taking it to get tested, my brother removed the starter, but I put it back in. When I was hooking it up, I asked him to confirm that I was hooking it up correctly. Which he did. But unfortunately it wasn't right.

It's now fixed. Thanks for your help guys.


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

spenc938 said:


> When we were taking it to get tested, my brother removed the starter, but I put it back in. When I was hooking it up, I asked him to confirm that I was hooking it up correctly. Which he did. But unfortunately it wasn't right.
> 
> It's now fixed. Thanks for your help guys.


Well cool enough.
Ya know...my method of operating has changed over the last few years.
I've got a cheap digital camera out in the garage, with a 128MB SD card, a cheap 7" digital photo frame, 4 rechargeable AA's for the camera, 4 more for the flashlight, and a recharger for those AA's.
Whenever I'm on a job I haven't done before and I'm not 100% sure of what the hell is going on, I take a load of pictures beforehand. Pull the SD card out, stick it in the photo frame, and let it run on random slideshow. It's saved my ass a few times already.
In the same realm, I've also used my more expensive camera, took a video of what was where beforehand, pointing out wires, colors of those wires, vacuum lines, where they hooked up, and one time even had the wife run the video cam while I was tearing stuff apart while I described what I was doing. And again...saved my ass.
As cheap as these things are, I don't see why more people don't do the same thing...


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## spenc938 (Oct 18, 2009)

jdgrotte said:


> Well cool enough.
> Ya know...my method of operating has changed over the last few years.
> I've got a cheap digital camera out in the garage, with a 128MB SD card, a cheap 7" digital photo frame, 4 rechargeable AA's for the camera, 4 more for the flashlight, and a recharger for those AA's.
> Whenever I'm on a job I haven't done before and I'm not 100% sure of what the hell is going on, I take a load of pictures beforehand. Pull the SD card out, stick it in the photo frame, and let it run on random slideshow. It's saved my ass a few times already.
> ...


That's a good idea. I've actually done the same thing on more complicated jobs, head gaskets and such, but I think we all get it in our heads that replacing something like a starter is too easy for precautions like that. But hopefully it should only happen once.


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## STEALTHY SENTRA (Sep 1, 2009)

I am glad u have it fixed. I would have switched batteries with any friends or relatives car to be cetain it was or was not the battery.#2- as soon as a cable gets hot = a short in the wiring or a very high resistance in the connection at the battery post.:cheers:


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