# Camping trailer towing



## spidey (Apr 3, 2007)

Am in the process of upgrading froma popup tent trailer to a Rockwood Roo with a hard slide out for the rear bed. With a growing family the tent trailer was getting squished

The dry weight of this is 3500 and fully loaded is 4830, which is within the 6000 lbs towing capacity

is there anything else I have to owrry about before commiting to a trailer. I dont want to get something that basically pushing the limits of thje truck everytime I drive. The length of the trailer is 21 feet

Do I need to worry about gearing ratio, tongue weight, etc.

The tent trailer is fairly light so I didnt have to worry about it, but this one is bigger and heavier


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## Z_Rated (Apr 29, 2006)

Since you have towing experience you basically have all you need to know. Drive responsibly. Your MPG will take a big hit. 

Make sure your hitch is properly rated for the load. You may want to step up to a load leveling hitch and run trailer brakes with a controller if you haven't done so already since you are close to #5000. Z

Since yours is an SE you will notice the gearing more so than my Nismo, but I can't say how much. And you always want to pay attention to your tounge weight and loading balance. Don't put all the weight forward or back that it makes the ass-end sag or tipsy.


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## spidey (Apr 3, 2007)

Z_Rated said:


> Since you have towing experience you basically have all you need to know. Drive responsibly. Your MPG will take a big hit.
> 
> Make sure your hitch is properly rated for the load. You may want to step up to a load leveling hitch and run trailer brakes with a controller if you haven't done so already since you are close to #5000. Z
> 
> Since yours is an SE you will notice the gearing more so than my Nismo, but I can't say how much. And you always want to pay attention to your tounge weight and loading balance. Don't put all the weight forward or back that it makes the ass-end sag or tipsy.


Ive been towing for about about 8 years now. We used to have a really small hard top with our Montana van, then our tent trailer. It was actually a pretty big trailer with front storage, was about up to my neck with the top down.

Gas milage I realize will be a bit worse, but you expect that when towing.

As far as I know my hitch is rated for the load, class II. Its been awhle since I looked, buts its the 2" receiver and from the last time I checked, it was all good to go. Ill ask more at the dealer about tongue weight, etc I do have a load leveler hitch with a sway bar, and have the complete brake control inside the truck as well, as I used it for the tent trailer

I just read and hear different things here and there, and would like to come to a place that drives these trucks to get the answers


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## azrocketman (Oct 5, 2005)

You might want to consider adding/upgrading coolers for engine oil and transmission fluid (automatic). In lieu of coolers I'd upgrade to synthetic lubricants and increase the frequency of changes.

Z-rated is correct about the brake controller for the trailer brakes. Check with Nissan to determine the allowable fluid displacement for the brake controller. 

Tent campers typically use only a four pin connector. You will probably use a six or seven pin connector (brake wiring, 12 volt power).

Check your mirrors also. You may need accessory side mirrors to see around the trailer.

Steve


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## spidey (Apr 3, 2007)

azrocketman said:


> You might want to consider adding/upgrading coolers for engine oil and transmission fluid (automatic). In lieu of coolers I'd upgrade to synthetic lubricants and increase the frequency of changes.
> 
> Z-rated is correct about the brake controller for the trailer brakes. Check with Nissan to determine the allowable fluid displacement for the brake controller.
> 
> ...


Already have the tranny cooler, but not the engine oil cooler, but do use synthetci Mobil 1 changed every 6000 kms. I drive about 90 km an hour when on trips just to take it a bit easy.

What do you mean by allowable fluid displacement With the brake control it adjust the trailer brakes so you dont use the truck brakes as much. Never heard of that before

Our tent camper was a 7 pin as well. It was a big trailer, so its all set for that.

Ive been meaning to buy mirror extenders for awhile, just havent gotten around to it


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## Z_Rated (Apr 29, 2006)

Class II can't be right? I'm Class III/IV without a load leveling hitch, 7-pin RV and transmission cooler. When I say MPG hit, expect single digit lows or about half of what you normally get, depending on terrain and speed with that much. Z


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## spidey (Apr 3, 2007)

Z_Rated said:


> Class II can't be right? I'm Class III/IV without a load leveling hitch, 7-pin RV and transmission cooler. When I say MPG hit, expect single digit lows or about half of what you normally get, depending on terrain and speed with that much. Z


Sorry I meant Class III. The tent trailer we had had a max loaded weight of over 3000 lbs, and this new one only goes above 4, so gas milage shouldnt be a lot different. PLus it was a 7 pin connector as well. I have both on mine, 4 pin and 7.

Thanks for the help though, I noticed as well my tongue weight will be fine


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## spidey (Apr 3, 2007)

ok, since I've gotten so much good info from here, I have to clear some stuff up. Maybe its me not reading something right, or maybe the lightbulb hasnt gone of yet.

Ive been reading a lot online, but just want to clarify things in my own words. Since I bought this new trailer being heavier, I want to make sure I didnt over do it. I also plan on taking it to a weigh station on are first camping trip next week to see what it is loaded with our usual stuff.

The specs from Nissan are the following for a 2005 Frontier
GVWR is 5816 lbs
Tow Capacity - 6100 lbs
Payload - 1365 lbs
Curb Weight - 4323 lbs

The trailer specs are as follows (according to their website)
Dry Hitch Weight 594 lbs. 
Dry Axle Weight 2,965 lbs.
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 3,559 lbs.
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) 4,830 lbs.

So even loaded the GVWR of the trailer is well within the 6100 lbs towing capacity

So how do I know if Im not overdoing it for the GVWR for my truck. Since the trailer weighs 4830 lbs, do I take what the hitch weight is (594 lbs) and add that to the curb weight of the truck plus whatever cargo I have in the truck & bed itself to get the GVWR.

Am I making sense, sometimes this stuff just confuses me until the lightbulb clicks on.

The truck itself wont have much cargo to haul in the bed, just some camping chairs, gazebo, etc that we dont want to unload from the trailer all the time. And it will be carrying a family of 5 plus a mid size dog. Im not big into taking everything and the kitchen sink when we camp.

Whats the best way to know Im not overdoing the GVWR.


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## azrocketman (Oct 5, 2005)

I think you will be marginal for payload capacity. You have a 1365 pound payload capacity on the truck. I'll assume 150 pounds each for the adults, 100 pounds each for the kids, and 50 pounds for the dog. That suggests 650 pounds for passengers. I'll assume 100 pounds of "stuff" (tools, clothes, cooler in cab). That makes 750 pounds. If we call the hitch weight 600 pounds then you are at 1350 pounds. You can juggle the numbers from my assumptions (maybe you weigh 200 pounds and the kids weigh 75 pounds each) and maybe be a little lighter. The real answer is to weigh the rig and add the travelers.

By the way, the fluid displacement issue concerns older controllers that connected to the brake lines. Too much displacement to activate the controller limited brake function at the wheels.

Steve


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## spidey (Apr 3, 2007)

azrocketman said:


> I think you will be marginal for payload capacity. You have a 1365 pound payload capacity on the truck. I'll assume 150 pounds each for the adults, 100 pounds each for the kids, and 50 pounds for the dog. That suggests 650 pounds for passengers. I'll assume 100 pounds of "stuff" (tools, clothes, cooler in cab). That makes 750 pounds. If we call the hitch weight 600 pounds then you are at 1350 pounds. You can juggle the numbers from my assumptions (maybe you weigh 200 pounds and the kids weigh 75 pounds each) and maybe be a little lighter. The real answer is to weigh the rig and add the travelers.
> 
> By the way, the fluid displacement issue concerns older controllers that connected to the brake lines. Too much displacement to activate the controller limited brake function at the wheels.
> 
> Steve


I think I may have this figured out (light may of clicked on finally)

I always assume payload as the amount of weight in the truck bed, but now I do realize it is the entire weight in the truck (bed & cab)

So for example if I understand this correctly the weight would be like this

Ex (hauling the trailer empty and truck empty):
Truck curb weight (4323 lbs) + dry hitch weight (594 lbs) + me (155 lbs) = 5072 lbs

Nissan GVWR (5815 lbs) - total weight above (5072 lbs) = 743 lbs to spare GVWR
Payload (1365 lbs) - dry hitch weight (594 lbs) + me (155 lbs) = 616 lbs to spare payload

is that right?

Couple more questions (it sure was easier when i had a tent trailer and didn't have to worry about weight so much)

Dry hitch weight is of course when the trailer is empty. How can I figure out what the weight is when its loaded with our usual stuff. Would a weigh station be best, just go when we are loaded to get the correct hitch weight when loaded. I know this would varie trip to trip, but it shouldn't fluctuate that much would it?

If I get the setup weighed on the scale, should we all stay in the vehicle so they get the correct weight we have in the truck

with my truck GVWR do I need to count what a full tank of gas weighs, etc, etc. I definitely don't want to worry about if we decide to haul something extra in the truck (like extra wood or something) that it will put it over the top. Or start stripping the truck of things to lessen the load (like empty the glove box as an extreme and stupid example)

I never really thought of cab weight really as adding to the payload. As a family of 5 I think we are at about 500 lbs (small kids for know) and the dog would be about 35 lbs, and even a bit extra lets say 600 lbs to be safe. Your numbers at about 750 would be a little high, but probably not much, maybe shave off 50 lbs.

But hell if I have to worry about an extra 50 lbs, I think I may of cut it to close to the max


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## azrocketman (Oct 5, 2005)

"A gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is the maximum allowable total weight of a road vehicle or trailer when loaded - i.e including the weight of the vehicle itself plus fuel, passengers, cargo, and trailer tongue weight.

The difference between gross weight and curb weight is the total passenger and cargo weight capacity of the vehicle. For example, a pickup truck with a curb weight of 4500 pounds might have a cargo capacity of 2000 pounds, meaning it can have a gross weight of 6500 pounds when fully loaded" (from wikipedia for GVWR).

Looks like your logic is basically right but this line should be:
Payload (1365 lbs) - dry hitch weight (594 lbs) - me (155 lbs) = 616 lbs to spare payload 

The problem with dry versus wet tongue weight is where the additional weight is placed. If all of the weight is behind the trailer axle then the tongue weight will be reduced. If all the weight is ahead of the axle then the tongue weight will be increased as the weight is shared by the tongue and axle. It may be even more complicated, e.g. what if all your fresh water is behind the axle and your gray/black water tanks are ahead of the axle.

You can weigh the rig with all fluids filled (gasoline, propane bottles, fresh water). You know your weight and that of the family members (including the dog). I'd assume empty waste water tanks since the water primarily will come from the fresh water tank (be careful if you add water to the fresh water system or hookup without emptying the waste water tanks).

Bottom line: It appears you are close to your limits. You'll need to think twice if you're going to haul you gold bars with your trailer.

Steve


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## spidey (Apr 3, 2007)

azrocketman said:


> "A gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is the maximum allowable total weight of a road vehicle or trailer when loaded - i.e including the weight of the vehicle itself plus fuel, passengers, cargo, and trailer tongue weight.
> 
> The difference between gross weight and curb weight is the total passenger and cargo weight capacity of the vehicle. For example, a pickup truck with a curb weight of 4500 pounds might have a cargo capacity of 2000 pounds, meaning it can have a gross weight of 6500 pounds when fully loaded" (from wikipedia for GVWR).
> 
> ...


Well the good thing is when we moved to the new trailer I went on a trailer diet. My wife had tons of extra stuff packed (who needs 19 hand towels and 26 face clothes for christ sake - I counted) that kind of stuff. I beleive in being prepared but that kinda stuff is just crazy.

The fresh watter tank is in the very front of the trailer, so that will definitly add weight to the hitch. But then again that may not be something I fill all the time. The grey and black tanks are in the middle of the trailer in front of the axles as well. But those wont be hauled with anthing in them (circumstances pending)

Im not sure what you meant by this line "(be careful if you add water to the fresh water system or hookup without emptying the waste water tanks)."

Is that just because of extra weight?

On July 1 we are taking are first trip. The campsite is only 45 minutes away so this would be a good test to load it up with our usual stuff and see how it drives, how to pack it better so the weight is distributed to the back more etc. And to also get a true number from the weigh scale.

Im filling the water tank as well so I know Ive maxed out what we always plan to take. Guess theres no sense having a bathroom in a trailer if you cant use it because u didnt take water with you


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## azrocketman (Oct 5, 2005)

"Im not sure what you meant by this line "(be careful if you add water to the fresh water system or hookup without emptying the waste water tanks)."

Is that just because of extra weight?"

Yes. Let's assume that you hold 40 gallons of fresh water (about 320 pounds). If you use all that water for showers and flushes you will have 40 gallons of water in your gray/black waste tanks. If you decide to add more water to the water tank or use hookups without draining the waste tanks you'll add even more weight to the trailer. Worst case, if you had 40 gallon each fresh, gray, and black water tanks and max'ed everything out (which is unlikely) you'd have almost half a ton of water in the trailer.

I'd be curious to hear how everything weighs out and balances after the trip.

Steve


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## spidey (Apr 3, 2007)

azrocketman said:


> "Im not sure what you meant by this line "(be careful if you add water to the fresh water system or hookup without emptying the waste water tanks)."
> 
> Is that just because of extra weight?"
> 
> ...


Oh I see what you mean. When it comes to water weight Im going to be very careful. Guarantee when we are done camping amd know we are going home right away that the fresh water will be emptied, and the blacks and greys as soon as I can. Be the first time I have to worry about dumping sewer, so something else to learn

Thanks for all the answers. You answered a lot of questions and cleared up a lot for me


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## spidey (Apr 3, 2007)

Well I went to the weigh station on the way camping to get some real world numbers. Trailer and truck was loaded with what we usualy take (and the dog) The trailer had a full water tank so I knew what max weight was when full (since it was only a 45 minute drive) Truck had a full tank of gas, 5 people and some other camping stuff (beer to)

Numbers are as follows. I didnt take the trailer off the truck just for time, maybe I should of to get an actual trailer weight

Trailer weight (while connected to truck) 4541 lbs

Truck weight (all axles, everyone sitting in it & trailer connected) 6393 lbs )(whoops about 500 over GVWR)

Truck front axle (2778 lbs)

Truck back axle (3549 lbs)

So from the number hauling with a full tank is probably not a good idea. Funny part is the truck didnt seem laboured hauling. had one major hill to go up and while I was only going 50 km/hr, I was also only pushing 2500 rpm in 2nd gear.

Im not sure what the hitch weight is afyter being loaded up. Does anyone know how to get a hitch weight when its loaded. Would u go to a weigh scale, put the front hitch on the scale and unhook from your truck

it was definitly lighter hauling back because the water tank was empy.

So it looks like my towing capacity is definitly in range, but I have to work on my GVRW

Unless I screwed up on my numbers. If I have please let me know.

Would putting more in the trailer help?? My truck bed was pretty full with chairs, wood, drinking water, etc

Thing is I saw the same size trailer I have, give or take 2 feet being hauled by Honda Pilot and Satrun Outlooks. Im thinking if those things can haul that mine should be fine


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## azrocketman (Oct 5, 2005)

"Im not sure what the hitch weight is afyter being loaded up. Does anyone know how to get a hitch weight when its loaded. Would u go to a weigh scale, put the front hitch on the scale and unhook from your truck"

Should work.

"Truck weight (all axles, everyone sitting in it & trailer connected) 6393 lbs )(whoops about 500 over GVWR)"

Originally, you thought you had a little to spare and now you come in about 500 pounds heavy. You either took more than you expected in the truck, underestimated the weights of what you expected to take, or the trailer tongue weight is (well) over 600 pounds. Moving stuff to the trailer (behind the axle) may help but I think the trailer is overweight also based on your numbers.

"Truck back axle (3549 lbs)" 

Check what your tires are rated at for load carrying capability. It should say on the sidewall. 1700 pounds + (almost 1800 pounds) per tire sounds like a lot.

Steve


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## spidey (Apr 3, 2007)

"Should work."

Ill try and do the hitch weight again next trip. If I go now it wont be loaded with the normal stuff (food, clothes, etc, etc.) I wish now I would of done it then, no one was there so I didnt have to worry about making anyone wait.


"Originally, you thought you had a little to spare and now you come in about 500 pounds heavy. You either took more than you expected in the truck, underestimated the weights of what you expected to take, or the trailer tongue weight is (well) over 600 pounds. Moving stuff to the trailer (behind the axle) may help but I think the trailer is overweight also based on your numbers."

Maybe I underesitmated the actual weight of all our stuff with us combined. I know this trip I did discover a few things we dont need that wont be taken on the next trip, but definitly not 500 lbs worth The bed wasnt overflowing either, i was able to put the tonneau cover over nice and flat.

How is the trailer over weight? I can tow 6100 lbs and the GVWR of the trailer is 4830 lbs and I was at 4531 lbs. Thats 300 under, and would of been 600 if the water tank was empty. I know on trips I wont have a full tank, but wanted to know what it was loaded with all are stuff and max water, Or am I missing something

"Check what your tires are rated at for load carrying capability. It should say on the sidewall. 1700 pounds + (almost 1800 pounds) per tire sounds like a lot."

My truck tires are rated at 2500 lbs each. I got some Good year Wranglers with Kevlar sidewalls. 

I guess maybe we will have to try and figure out what not to bring now. Maybe that 300 lbs of water was just to much and added alot to the tongue weight as its in the very front of the trailer.

I know every trip we wont take the dog. Her and food, toys, etc would be at least 75 lbs there. Then again. if I have to worry about 50 lbs, maybe I bit off more than I can chew.

Saying that, how are these CUV's hauling these type of trailers too.


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## spidey (Apr 3, 2007)

OK, an update if anyone is interested. Went on another camping trip. A lot farther away so only took enough water for over night use as we stopped on the way.

Was driving through the start of the Rocky mountains as well. While going up some of the hills the truck was working harder but still going a good speed and not bagging the engine a lot (downshifted to 3rd and revved about 3 grand) On the flat parts was averaging about 90 km an hour, only 10 km under the speed limit, and averaged about 14 mpg. So all in all, while not a full size truck, I think it did well.

Also put a lot more stuff in the trailer, and very light stuff in the truck. Tarp, usual tool box and a 5 gallon pail.

Hhere are the weights now. Went to a weigh scale and had the operator come out and explain some stuff.

Trailer weight was 4321 lbs. Under by 220 lbs from last trip because the water was only 1/4 full, but then extra weight added because more stuff not put in the truck. So under weight for towing by alot, and under weight GVWR for the trailer by 500 lbs. So all good there. Also went on a trailer diet and got rid of about 50 lbs of extra stuff.

Truck weight was 6062 though, so still over by 246 lbs for GVWR for the truck.

Theres nothing more I can take out of the truck. I need my tool box of course, and the tarp and pail maybe weigh 5 lbs between themselves.

Funny thing is with the load leveler hitch, the trailer is level. I even used a tape measure to see the height difference from the back to the front and the front was 22" and the back 23". And the truck isnt sagging much at all, compared to a lot of rigs I see on the road. To the naked eye on an even road, the levels look even

I'm thinking its the hauling of the water. Maybe even take less water next time, or none and then weigh it one final time. Theres nothing more I can take out of the truck, except people.

Anyone have any ideas that may help to lessen the truck GVWR. Doing it this way compared to the last trip I took off 330 lbs off the truck GVWR but still not enough to be under the max allowed.

Take even less water? I want to at least use the toilet if need be, so I dont want to take no water at all. Short drives its ok, but on a 4 hour drive, I dont want to have to worry about finding a bathroom when we can jut use ours


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## jgib01 (Aug 13, 2009)

Greetings from Lethbridge! Thanks very much for all of the information you've posted here. Should prove very helpful in guiding us in our search for an upgrade to our pop-up. Did you buy your Rockwood locally? Does it have any add-ons (e.g., A/C)?


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## spidey (Apr 3, 2007)

jgib01 said:


> Greetings from Lethbridge! Thanks very much for all of the information you've posted here. Should prove very helpful in guiding us in our search for an upgrade to our pop-up. Did you buy your Rockwood locally? Does it have any add-ons (e.g., A/C)?


We bought it in Medicine hat. One add on is the hard rear slide, I think everything comes with AC now


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