# tein basics, problems maybe?



## jeffinbham (Nov 1, 2003)

i installed my basics (finally) about 2 weeks ago. right now, i have the front and rear wheels tucked, (18's), and it doesn't seem to ride any smoother than my gr2/sprint setup. and it clunks, and the coil are all set differently, ie, one side has about 5 threads on the bottom, while the other is completely down. yet, all the corners are the same height. i understand the tranny adds weigth to one side, i really don't see how there could be so much difference. also, one of the front struts pops when i let the clutch out, could this just mean i need to raise them up some, or have i installed something wrong. i have the pillowball uppers. someone with experience in setting these things input would really be appreciated, and maybe help. thanks - jeff


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## laymil (Apr 30, 2004)

Each set of wheels should have the same amount of thread on the bottom, unless you plan on getting your car corner weighted and adjusting everything so its even, etc - guesswork doesn't usually cut it.

If you have the adjusters all the way on the bottom, the spring is probably just sitting there until the dampers compress. When you go over a bump, it will be loose and come out of its seat...possibly.

Personally, I'd raise the adjusters until you need to at least use the supplied wrenches to adjust, but thats just me.


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## jeffinbham (Nov 1, 2003)

the guy at the speed shop said it was cause the tranny is weighing one side down, the car is even. on the passenger front, the spring isn't seated, it's loose, i have to hold it in place while i let the car down. what's going on??


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

jeffinbham said:


> the guy at the speed shop said it was cause the tranny is weighing one side down, the car is even. on the passenger front, the spring isn't seated, it's loose, i have to hold it in place while i let the car down. what's going on??


That seems really, really bizzare. None of your spring perches should be set all the way at the bottom of the strut, nor should any of your springs be completely unloaded (come loose from the perches) when you jack up your car.

I would adjust the spring perches so the distance between the center of your wheel hubs and the highest point of the wheel well match the Tein reference values first (These values should be accompanied by a diagram in the Tein instruction manual. If you lost yours, they have it online here). 

If you end up having to set your spring perches to significantly different heights (between driver and passenger sides) to achieve the reference heights, you will need to disassemble the front struts and make sure that both struts were assembled correctly (make sure you didn't accidentally put a rear spring in one of the front struts either). If everything has been installed according to the manual and you are not missing any parts, you should call Tein ASAP. They either sent you the wrong spring for one side of your car or the one spring is sagging (either way, Tein should replace it for free).

EDIT: Oh, one thing I forgot to mention. It is an extremely BAD idea to drive around on the street with the spring perches set to anything lower than the reference heights given by tein. It isn't even that great an idea to drive around with the perches set to the reference values. The reference values are there so that you can check the springs for sagging, and nothing else.


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## jeffinbham (Nov 1, 2003)

ReVerm said:


> That seems really, really bizzare. None of your spring perches should be set all the way at the bottom of the strut, nor should any of your springs be completely unloaded (come loose from the perches) when you jack up your car.
> 
> I would adjust the spring perches so the distance between the center of your wheel hubs and the highest point of the wheel well match the Tein reference values first (These values should be accompanied by a diagram in the Tein instruction manual. If you lost yours, they have it online here).
> 
> ...


as far as assembling them incorrectly or putting the fronts on the back or vice versa, i don't think i did, because the springs were on the struts when they came in the mail. i guess i will take it to the speed shop and have them look at it, damnit, and i just got an alignment.


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## jeffinbham (Nov 1, 2003)

oh, and as far as calling tein, i have heard horror stories about calling them, i think they only speak japanese, but i don't know.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

jeffinbham said:


> i have the front and rear wheels tucked, (18's)


For some odd reason I missed this alarming little piece of information. What tyre size are you running? Because if you're running the size that I think you are, you are literally riding around on your bump stops front and rear.


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## jeffinbham (Nov 1, 2003)

ReVerm said:


> For some odd reason I missed this alarming little piece of information. What tyre size are you running? Because if you're running the size that I think you are, you are literally riding around on your bump stops front and rear.


215/35's. but i don't see what that would make me ride on the bumpstops anymore than the 15" stockies. i am going to raise the height until all the springs are secure on the struts, and see if that doesn't help any. what do you think? please explain your theory on the tire size. thanks -jeff


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

jeffinbham said:


> 215/35's. but i don't see what that would make me ride on the bumpstops anymore than the 15" stockies. i am going to raise the height until all the springs are secure on the struts, and see if that doesn't help any. what do you think? please explain your theory on the tire size. thanks -jeff


Here's the logic behind it:
_Note: I'm only going to talk about the fronts, but the same logic applies to the rears as well. Damper travel measurements in bold for readability._

The Tein manual gives you reference heights to check the condition of your springs once you get them. They are listed as the distance between the center of your wheel hub (essentially the center of your wheel) to the middle of the fender. The Tein reference values for this distance is 12.2 inches (or 310mm) in the front. Here's a diagram to show everyone what I'm talking about:









_Taken from Tein BASICs installation manual_

When I installed mine, I measured the total travel of the front dampers at this reference value. There is approximately *1.75 in* of travel between the top of the strut and the bump stop at this reference height (without the pillowball mounts). If you were to install the Tein pillowball mounts (which increases the total height of the damper by 0.6 in according to Tein), you would need to reduce the ride height another 0.6 in to match this reference height. In doing so, you have now reduced your damper travel to about *1.15 in*.

Now, you said your tyres are 215/35/18. That means that your sidewalls are 215mm * .35 = 75.25 mm or 2.96 inches tall. Combine that with the wheel radius (18 in / 2 = 9 in), and you get 11.96 inches. The reason this is significant here is because you said that your tyres were "tucked" under the wheel well. In order to do this, you would need to lower your car anywhere between 0.24 in (in order to reduce the fender well height to match the top of the wheel, you would need to reduce the ride height by: 12.2 in - 11.96 in = 0.24 in) to 1 in (enough to get the "tucked" look). By doing so, you've now reduced your damper travel to anywhere between *0.91 in to 0.16 in*. 

Even with the 335lb(f)/in front springs, 0.91 in of front damper travel is nowhere near enough for you to be able to drive on the street without having the front dampers bottom out. You are hitting your bumpstops at every curb and speed bump, and sometimes under hard braking. Despite the length and progressive nature of the Tein bump stops, this will almost certainly cause the ride to feel horrible, and the car will be dangerous, even during regular street driving. At .16 in, you are literally riding on your bump stops (remember that this distance does decrease when you sit down in the driver's seat because of the weight of your body).


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## jeffinbham (Nov 1, 2003)

reverm, i'm not the best at math, so maybe you can shed some light on this for me. check this out, the 18's with 35 profile are the same diameter as the 15's with 55 profile, when you put the wheels next to eachother they are the same size. i haven't measured from the center, but i imagine it would be the same, so how could the wheel size have that much effect on travel?


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

jeffinbham said:


> reverm, i'm not the best at math, so maybe you can shed some light on this for me. check this out, the 18's with 35 profile are the same diameter as the 15's with 55 profile, when you put the wheels next to eachother they are the same size. i haven't measured from the center, but i imagine it would be the same, so how could the wheel size have that much effect on travel?


The wheel size isn't what's reducing your travel here (not directly). If you put 15" wheels with 205/55 tyres on your car, you would still have the same amount of total travel. 

The reason your tyre size mattered in those calculations was because of two reasons. The first is because you said that your wheels were "tucked" in your first post. The second is because Tein lists their reference height as the distance between the center of the hub and the top of the wheel well. If you had said that you had 205/55R15 tyres (which are almost the same diameter as 215/35R18) on your car, it would not have made a major difference in the calculations. I just needed the numbers to show you that you had your ride height set way too low to be safe on the street.

The point I'm getting at is, if you lower the ride height of your car that much on Tein BASICs, your car will be unsafe to drive on the street. Even if you cut your bumpstops or replaced them with ones with a lower initial rate, you will still only have about an inch of travel to work with in the front, which is still far from sufficient with 335lb(f)/in front springs. As you can see in the calculations above, you need to raise your ride height to a point that is at least 0.6" higher than the Tein reference values in order to achieve a safe minimum travel. Your car may not look as low, but that is the best you can do while still being safe.

If you want that "slammed" look and still want to be able to drive your car on the street safely, you only really have two options: 

The first is to get the fenders from a late model JDM Lucino (I think mid 96 is when they started doing this). The wheel arches are smaller in the late model fenders, which means that you wouldn't need to lower your car as much to get the same look. This way, you can still maintain a decent amount of travel while giving you the look you want. 

Your only other optiion is to get a different car. The B chassis is simply not a good platform for lowering your car inexpensively. I remember seeing a post in this same section which said something along the lines of _"If all you're interested in is that "slammed" look, you probably should have bought a different car"_. As harsh as it sounds, wiser words were never spoken.


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## jeffinbham (Nov 1, 2003)

right on man. that makes sense. i will def be raising the height, as soon as i get the time and the weather isn't so nasty. thanks for the info. - jeff


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