# 380 hp, my car sucks less!



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Ok, this weekend at the SERCA dyno day I redynoed my red turbo classic using VP C16 instead of C12 like last time and got 380 hp and 353 lb/ft of torque at 21 psi.

Now my car still sucks more than any of the other turbo SE-R's I helped build or tune but at least its not quite as embarrising as before.

Its amazing, the smoother combustion of C16 was good for 12 hp over the C12. It weas not detonating before, just sounded like rough combustion.

C16 truely kicks ass, its like turbo liquid crack.

Next is 3" downpipe, Tial wastegate, O2 induction manifold, 72 lb injectors, T350 turbine, JWT C2 cams. Hopefuly a lot more power.

Mike


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2002)

Haha, good to hear. "C16 - It just sucks less."


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Zak91SE-R said:


> *Haha, good to hear. "C16 - It just sucks less." *


I think a 3" downpipe and ported turbine housing make a bigger difference than headwork on these motors.

I guess we'll see how much of a difference these minor changes make soon enough.

Mike


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

Mike, are you who I think you are? If so........I'd like to talk to you a little bit about my engine.


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## psshhgoesmysr20 (May 1, 2002)

Glad to hear it Mike. Are you using a .82 ported housing or a .63?


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

psshhgoesmysr20 said:


> *Glad to hear it Mike. Are you using a .82 ported housing or a .63? *


An off the shelf unported stock 0.82 T3 housing. I think porting and extrude honing are good for around 10-15 hp and 2-400 rpm quicker spool.

Mike


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## 1fastser (Sep 30, 2002)

*turbo liquid crack...lol*



morepower2 said:


> *I think porting and extrude honing are good for around 10-15 hp and 2-400 rpm quicker spool.
> 
> Mike *


Are you referring to exhaust housing only or are you including the manifold?

Can't wait to try some of that "turbo liquid crack" when it's finished.  

laterz...Jody


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## SE-RtinMI (Nov 3, 2002)

Hmmm wanna buy some C2's? I just pulled them out. 300 shipped in the U.S. Does not include the valvetrain. [email protected]


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

*Re: turbo liquid crack...lol*



1fastser said:


> *Are you referring to exhaust housing only or are you including the manifold?
> 
> Can't wait to try some of that "turbo liquid crack" when it's finished.
> 
> laterz...Jody *


Exhaust housing only.


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## Jackson Diamond (Apr 30, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *Ok, this weekend at the SERCA dyno day I redynoed my red turbo classic using VP C16 instead of C12 like last time and got 380 hp and 353 lb/ft of torque at 21 psi.
> 
> Now my car still sucks more than any of the other turbo SE-R's I helped build or tune but at least its not quite as embarrising as before.
> 
> ...


Mike, when you get the O2Induction manifold on, i think you will 400whp easy. I have ridden in Rob's with it on and it helped spool the turbo faster and the top end was sick. When we dynoed it it made like 51 peak hp overall. I sure you know that already though. Cant wait to put the prototype on my b14.


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## Jackson Diamond (Apr 30, 2002)

Mike do you know if it would be possible for Clarck at JWT to program an ecu for a short runner intake manifold (i.e. O2induction).


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Jackson Diamond said:


> *Mike do you know if it would be possible for Clarck at JWT to program an ecu for a short runner intake manifold (i.e. O2induction). *


I don't think the short runner manifold will make any difference to the program, but I will test it for sure.

Mike


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## Jasper (Apr 2, 2004)

i KNOW this is an OLD post...but any updates from kojima? i'm looking into one of these manifolds, but i'd like to see some trustworthy dyno numbers first (their site numbers might not be the same boost settings, etc etc.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

go over to sr20forum.com and see some of the older posts in there, or check www.se-r.net (the archives) there's a ton of good stuff in there too.

Mike will chime in I'm sure.


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## Jasper (Apr 2, 2004)

chimmike said:


> go over to sr20forum.com and see some of the older posts in there, or check www.se-r.net (the archives) there's a ton of good stuff in there too.
> 
> Mike will chime in I'm sure.


i actually started another post over there about those manifolds mike

did a lot of searching, and heard a lot of stuff about a poor idle control with these manifolds. supposedly, andreas copied o2's design for his own car, and modified the manifold slightly, and claims to have a great, strong idle. i'm already going to be running S4's, but combine that lopey of an idle with a poor idle, and i'd be stalling everywhere i went. ive already PMed andreas about what he did to modifiy the o2induction manifold, but no replies as of yet, and i brough kojima's old thread back to life in hopes he may reply to it and give me some solid info

here's hoping.


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## Marc Z31 (Jul 25, 2004)

what kind of compression do you have? That's a lot of HP for a 4 banger. SO on race fuel, 360 hp and 330 Lb ft. ! I'm pretty impressed. when do you spool, or better yet, can you post a dyno sheet? I'd love to see what kind of flat HP and TQ you make (area under the curve)


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## Jasper (Apr 2, 2004)

Marc Z31 said:


> what kind of compression do you have? That's a lot of HP for a 4 banger. SO on race fuel, 360 hp and 330 Lb ft. ! I'm pretty impressed. when do you spool, or better yet, can you post a dyno sheet? I'd love to see what kind of flat HP and TQ you make (area under the curve)



thats not ALOT of hp, Trav4011 is in the process of building a massive turbo'd and nitrous-fed 700+whp beast.
"those little 4bangers" are quite powerful when built up properly.

300 is a daily driver lol

i expect on making WELL over 400whp with my setup when its done, possibly up to (or maybe past) 500whp on high boost and race gas.

by the way, check the dates, this is a VERY old post. i'm sure kojimas well above the 400whp mark now.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

travis is in the process of doing a lot of things man. I wouldn't talk about what he's "in the process of doing" until it's finally complete...............


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## Jasper (Apr 2, 2004)

chimmike said:


> travis is in the process of doing a lot of things man. I wouldn't talk about what he's "in the process of doing" until it's finally complete...............



haha very true.
i just want to know more about these manifolds !

btw (chim)mike, i may not be building my engine after all. i got a VERY nice price from a pro engine builder. $4500 to build my whole motor (including parts and labor)...Wiseco 9:1's .020mm overbore, eagle rods, whole bottom end blueprinted and balanced, head ported and polished, Si valves, JWT S4 cams/springs/ti retainers, all ARP main bolts / headstuds...top quality everything.

plus, the guy warranties his work. if something fails because of his work (including defective parts)...he fixes it. just those parts MSRP are like $3500, plus the headwork is almost $600, plus blueprinting and assembly, and shipping, im *VERY* seriously considering this. it'd save me a lot of hassle, get me a certifably BUILT race engine, and get the stuff done that i CANT do myself (blueprinting/balancing, headwork, boring)


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Jasper said:


> i KNOW this is an OLD post...but any updates from kojima? i'm looking into one of these manifolds, but i'd like to see some trustworthy dyno numbers first (their site numbers might not be the same boost settings, etc etc.


The car is mostly together but I have to fabricate a remote AAC/air regulator valve and install the 72 lb injectors.

My changes since before are O2 induction stage 2 manifold, Turbonetics ball bearingTO4E 60 trim and T350 76 trim turbine with extrude honed ported housings and wheels, a extrude honed turbonetics exhaust manifold and a full 3" downpipe.

It should make well over 450 hp.

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Jasper said:


> haha very true.
> i just want to know more about these manifolds !
> 
> btw mike, i may not be building my engine after all. i got a VERY nice from a pro race shop. $4500 to build my whole motor (including parts and labor)...Wiseco 9:1's .020mm overbore, eagle rods, whole bottom end blueprinted and balanced, head ported and micropolished, Si valves, JWT S4 cams/springs/ti retainers, all ARP main bolts / headstuds...top quality everythi)


The is no such thing as a micropolished head, micropolishing is a process of superfinsihing crank jornals for longer bearing life and less friction. JWT S4 cams are designed to work with stock valve springs. JWT C series cams use different springs. If you mean Si valves like the B16A, the valves are smaller than stock SR20 valves.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Jasper said:


> haha very true.
> i just want to know more about these manifolds !
> 
> btw mike, i may not be building my engine after all. i got a VERY nice from a pro race shop. $4500 to build my whole motor (including parts and labor)...Wiseco 9:1's .020mm overbore, eagle rods, whole bottom end blueprinted and balanced, head ported and micropolished, Si valves, JWT S4 cams/springs/ti retainers, all ARP main bolts / headstuds...top quality everythi)


The is no such thing as a micropolished head, micropolishing is a process of superfinsihing crank jornals for longer bearing life and less friction. JWT S4 cams are designed to work with stock valve springs. JWT C series cams use different springs. If you mean Si valves like the B16A, the valves are smaller than stock SR20 valves. 

9:1 compression is too high for a turbo motor on pump gas, ARP studs are not needed until you boost over 25 psi. If I was an engine builder I would not guarantee such a motor, its too easy for an inexperianced driver to blow up a very powerful turbo motor, lots of boost and pump gas=boom.


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## Jasper (Apr 2, 2004)

93 octane pump gas, 110 @ at track
ARP studs becasue i plan on making 26-28psi runs @ the track
upgraded valve springs *more* for peace of mind. i'd cry if i floated a valve with the amount of money thats going into this motor
9:1 is definately not too high. maybe in your opinion, yes. but i'm running a much larger turbo, the 9:1's will help spool it a bit faster, (combined w/ extrude honing and swain coating), and i dont see why the ARp headstuds couldnt hold that.
i dont mean Si valves like from a honda. Si is a company. they machine their valves from the EXACT same blanks that Ferrea uses. dont believe me? look it up. **edit** http://www.sivalves.com/ theres the link

my mistake, i didnt mean micropolish. EndynePerformance told me something over the phone, something-polish, micro sounded about right, sorry i've got a lot on my mind at the moment with my sister in the hospital.
the builder warranties his work...not stupid mistakes. i know enough to not boost past 12-14psi on pump. theres a local gas station that has 104 and 110 unleaded for race applications (well, not too local, about a 25 minute drive)...which i'll be using for dyno runs and track days.



all i really want to know about is the manifold. i know what im doing as far as my engine work goes. these manifolds are a new beast to me, and i've talked to 3 different people that own them, and i've heard conflicting opinions from each one of them.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Jasper said:


> 93 octane pump gas, 110 @ at track
> ARP studs becasue i plan on making 26-28psi runs @ the track
> upgraded valve springs *more* for peace of mind. i'd cry if i floated a valve with the amount of money thats going into this motor
> 9:1 is definately not too high. maybe in your opinion, yes. but i'm running a much larger turbo, the 9:1's will help spool it a bit faster, (combined w/ extrude honing and swain coating), and i dont see why the ARp headstuds couldnt hold that.
> ...


If I was going to send a bunch of money to Endyne, I'd do a search on them and read many of the bad things people have to say about them. Personaly they seem very knowlegable but their are many horror stories about bougs mods and extreamly poor customer service.

I have not personaly done business with them but I have seen a lot of bad things about their customer service on Honda forums and they make a few wild claims such as 20+ psi from pump gas with a roots blower on a Honda motor.

Many people debate if Endyne really has a shop or if its someone working out of their garage. Granted I don't have a personal opinion about them and every story has two sides but they have many very angry ex customers. On a few of their claims I raise the BS flag, other times I find that much of their stuff is insightful. The bad thing is that I have not found any postive comments from unbiased people about their stuff on the net! I'd say do your homework and be careful before you send your money.

9:1 should be ok at 14 psi no problem with 93-94 octane, I am used to our crappy gas and forgot that the east coast has much better gas than us. I would recomend C1 or C2 cams if yoiu run the springs and retainers, don't use non JWT springs like Ferrera or Comp with S4's. The natural frequncy of the springs is noit tuned to the cams. The studs should be ok, but be sure to use a MLS trype head gasket.

I hope your sister is ok and has a speedy and complete reovery.


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## Jasper (Apr 2, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> If I was going to send a bunch of money to Endyne, I'd do a search on them and read many of the bad things people have to say about them. Personaly they seem very knowlegable but their are many horror stories about bougs mods and extreamly poor customer service.
> 
> I have not personaly done business with them but I have seen a lot of bad things about their customer service on Honda forums and they make a few wild claims such as 20+ psi from pump gas with a roots blower on a Honda motor.
> 
> ...


thanks, we're praying everything is alright.

i know endyne is a real shop, simply because my friend mike actually flew to texas with his cylinder head, brought it to their shop, and told them what he wanted. he was very happy with their work in his motor (bored sr20 -> sr22det putting down ~ 650 @ the wheels). i used them more for a baseline for price. there's also a guy in louisiana that comes VERY highly recommended, hes a professional engine builder (usually does race engines)...and no its not Travis...who quoted me a good price to build my engine, including blueprinting and balancing AND the headwork i want....
and i KNOW his work is good, (he builds 600+ whp engines on a daily basis). NismoDriver (SR20forum.com) can give you more details about him, he's a good friend of his, and since NismoDriver has a 424whp DET in a b12, which has never blown, (for quite a long while), i think his word can be trusted.


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## Jasper (Apr 2, 2004)

curious, why c1/c2 cams? my buddies silvia has s4's, and is making absolutely crazy power with them advanced 1.5 and 2.5 degrees, respectively
ive never seen dyno numbers for a turbo car running c1's or c2's....i dont suppose you have any?


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Jasper said:


> curious, why c1/c2 cams? my buddies silvia has s4's, and is making absolutely crazy power with them advanced 1.5 and 2.5 degrees, respectively
> ive never seen dyno numbers for a turbo car running c1's or c2's....i dont suppose you have any?


The C cams have nearly the same duration and more lift so you got a lot of area under the curve. Ususaly it helps peak hp a little but really improves torque. I am going to run C2's with the lobe centers spread a little. We ran C1's on the DP and they worked realy well.

I realy don't know if Endyne is good or bad, but I have never seen good threads on them on the Honda boards and I have seen plenty of bad ones! Some very very bad. That why you should check them out carefuly and get a good feeling on them before sending your hard earned money to them. Of course all companies have some bad threads an unsatisfied customer but better companies have the good threads out number the bad.

Nismo Johns car has made good numbers but at the SERCA convention he could not put down much. I think his car might have been having problems.


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## Jasper (Apr 2, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> The C cams have nearly the same duration and more lift so you got a lot of area under the curve. Ususaly it helps peak hp a little but really improves torque. I am going to run C2's with the lobe centers spread a little. We ran C1's on the DP and they worked realy well.
> 
> I realy don't know if Endyne is good or bad, but I have never seen good threads on them on the Honda boards and I have seen plenty of bad ones! Some very very bad. That why you should check them out carefuly and get a good feeling on them before sending your hard earned money to them. Of course all companies have some bad threads an unsatisfied customer but better companies have the good threads out number the bad.
> 
> Nismo Johns car has made good numbers but at the SERCA convention he could not put down much. I think his car might have been having problems.


yeah, well, my engine builder gave me a REALLY good price on my headwork, so i'm probably going to go with him. and i'm definately going to be looking into the c2's...i hadn't seen any turbo cars running them yet, so i was a little apprehensive to be a guinea pig. i'll have to price them out beside the S4's (i got a really good price on S4's)


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