# Torn between WRX and SPEC V!!!



## theimportscene (Jan 29, 2003)

hey ppl...
heres the deal.... i wana get my hands on a 03 spec v or a 03/04 wrx sedan..... nissan/subaru have got some real good financing deals from what i have researched..... alternatives like the cooper (too small), mazdaspeed and srt4 (skeptical about first year production), svt focus/rsx (4 doors preferred) have already been considered and ive narrowed it down to these fine works of art!
now its decision-making time....
ups for the spec V:
- 6-7K less
- 300-400lbs less
- sunroof available
- torquey motor
- helical LSD
- 18K price est. vs 25K for WRX

ups for wrx:
- 50 more hp (crank, anyways)
- awd
- many available parts
- easy to mod and achieve crazier hp gains thanks to turbo setup
- a reputation for being a no-nonsense tuner


ive read in ads that the wrx claims 5.6 0-60 times and 14.1 @ 94 mph 1/4 miles; the sentra pulling in low 7 0-60 times and mid to low 15s at around 90 mph (at least for the 02 model); 
im not looking to drag... just want something thats good for, say, a 50-100 mph run.... there was a WRX vs SPEC v post but it was in january (peoples thoughts may have changed) i want updates, opinions, and if someone has info about insurance rates, that'd be nice as well... !
i got till the end of august cuz thats when i gota make the move!


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

This is probably the wrong section to post this in.As for my opinion, if you can afford it go with the WRX.The Spec V has had too many engine problems for my taste and I don't like the open deck block.The WRX is not without it's drawbacks too, the transmission in them is known to have problems with durability and the dealerships don't like to honor the warranty on it.


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## V Dude (Oct 22, 2002)

The Spec V problems are pretty much fixed. It was the early '02s that mainly had the problems.

You have to really ask yourself what you want out of the car. I would buy the Spec V, because 6k is A LOT of money. If you want the better performance, the WRX is the choice. The Spec V is more than enough for me going 50-100, I already have 2 frickin tickets. 

The Spec V is decently quick, with bolt- ons it will trap around 93-94, which is close to a WRX. And there are cams too, still waiting to see some results on those. And it's great that Nismo is coming out with lots of stuff, so Nissan is supporting it. I plan on getting the shocks&sprins (keeps the warranty), the spoiler and front and rear lip, and then either bolt-ons or more suspension goodies.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

WRX launches are unmatched in fwd cars, period. WRX responds FAR better to mods, and is proven. Some 03 specs are still having problems. With simple mods like a new downpipe, the wrx gains 30whp. THIRTY!! that's a buttload! IIRC the WRX looks better too. Once again, need I say, AWD!!!

Oh, and the SRT-4 engine isn't new, it's a proven 2.4L turbo engine...it was used for a year prior to release as the SRT4 in the turbo pt cruiser.........and dynos 215whp and in the 250s tq. that's at the wheels! Yes, it's true. 

Either way, pay the money now and get something you'll definitely be happy with. Just think of the PSSHHHHH sound with teh cool blow off valves. 

Remember.....a car is not a one time buy, it's an investment. Would you decide between two houses by thinking about "well, I'll save this much money over that house, but that house has a pool, better location, and better resale, and I'd probably be better off in that house, but I'd still save some money living in this 1 bedroom studio....."

Good luck


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## muphasta (Aug 12, 2002)

Chim, How is a car an investment? It does not go up in value, it doesn't even retain it's value. 

T.I.S. - I'd say go w/whatever one you can afford. I love my spec, but I would have gotten a WRX if I could have afforded the difference in payments. 

It is far cheaper to get the car you want the first time, than to settle for something, then realize you made a mistake. 

If you want a WRX, get it. They are great cars. If the $6k is too much, you'll be pretty happy w/the specV. I love driving mine, but sometimes wonder what it would be like to be behind the wheel of an AWD turbo monster!


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## BlackoutSpecV (May 8, 2002)

Again, chimmike is right. 

If you ask me these two cars are not even worth comparing. any little kid who says his Spec V is going to beat a WRX (at anything) is on crack. The simple fact is that you really have no use for 300 hp on the street, now if you go to a track alot then you have a simple choice... WRX.

I love my Spec, but i do not go to the track (with it), i race maybe once a year. The spec was a he11 of a lot cheaper and it gets me to and from work in a hurry and gets 24/25 mpg. Thats all i ask of my street cars.


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## V Dude (Oct 22, 2002)

Car isn't much of an investment. Almost all of them will depreciate severely. What is a WRX gonna be worth in 5 years? Investments are supposed to increase in value. Hell, then why not just pay 6k over the WRX and get an STI. 

But, yeah, WRX is much better performance package, but way over my price range. You have to think about what you want out of a car.


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## tekmode (Feb 22, 2003)

id take the WRX if i could afford it and had the time. It's a tuners car unlike the specV


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## verno-dub (Sep 13, 2002)

As a Subaru owner, you cannot be seriously trying to compare the WRX and Spec-V. Hands down, like everyone here said, the Spec would get handed every time. 

In my opinion, you have to decide which car is the right car for what kind of driving YOU want are going to do, and how much peanut butter and jelly sandwiches you are prepared to eat in order to own one on these cars...In the end, it is your cash and not mine.

Just be thoughful on your desicion, 5 years is a long time to eat PB&J.  

-verno


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## Manny (Apr 19, 2003)

I would have to say again if you have the money buy the WRX. It's a great car (my friend has one) and it is easy to find many parts for it.

However, buy the Spec V if you wanna save money and with that money you could use to do shit to the SE-R. If you have 3-4k left over why not put a turbo in the Spec?


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## 7SPEED (Mar 24, 2003)

Wrx is quicker and easier to get power out off at reasonable price.
But the major swing to me is AWD, u can launch hard without any traction worres. (and I just noticed your in Detroit, I know u get some snow)

I like the layout of radio/climate controls better in WRX and it seems like less road noise.

But for the money I went w/ Spec because if I was to pay Wrx money I would go for more upscale car.


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## olsaltybastard (May 11, 2003)

Speed isn't everything. For the same $$ as a Subaru, I could have gotten an 02 Z-28. Much faster, but in the end, I wouldn't have been happy with it. So, I went with the practical approach and got a V. Happy, yes...........Fast, no! I love to drive it though. (Hey, that rhymes!) Buy what makes you happy, cause your gonna be paying for it for the next few years. No matter what you buy, you will not be the fastest guy around, period!!


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## sr20racer (Jun 29, 2002)

Money not being an option:

WRX owns Spec!!!


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

even if I couldn't afford the Spec, I would sell my kidney and by a WRX before the Spec... me personally, I think the Spec and SER's are way over inflated cars... good bang for the buck... but not very competitive in any other area...


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## tekmode (Feb 22, 2003)

James said:


> *even if I couldn't afford the Spec, I would sell my kidney and by a WRX before the Spec... me personally, I think the Spec and SER's are way over inflated cars... good bang for the buck... but not very competitive in any other area... *


the turbo is also a big factor


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

hehe... yeah that too! esp in CA where you get raped at smog check stations... see a turbo in a Spec V they're like "WTF?" see a turbo in a WRX? why not? now the size of the turbo is harder to check!!!


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## tekmode (Feb 22, 2003)

James said:


> *hehe... yeah that too! esp in CA where you get raped at smog check stations... see a turbo in a Spec V they're like "WTF?" see a turbo in a WRX? why not? now the size of the turbo is harder to check!!! *


along with the size of some other stuff


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

that's right!


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## tekmode (Feb 22, 2003)

but atleast you have a turbo car to mess around with...unlike me


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## chask31 (Apr 25, 2003)

I have an se-r....Personally if I had the extra 5000 I would have gone with the wrx...much faster. If I researched more, for under 20g I would have bought the VW GTI which has a nice turbo in it also....look into it. Can't beat german precision engineering.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

sr20racer said:


> *Money not being an option:
> 
> WRX owns Spec!!! *


haha "money not being an option" wish we all had it that easy.... but in that case then a Skyline owns a WRX....lol


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## sr20racer (Jun 29, 2002)

Money not being an option between the two cars, not any car in the world.


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## MontyCrabApple (Feb 11, 2003)

It is very simple, get the WRX.


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## germex (Jan 15, 2003)

The Spec is about the most car you can get for your money. The WRX is still a better deal. The Spec V has too many problems. Subaru, IMO, is a much better deal to go with. You will have less problems, and the WRX kicks ass all modded up. Plain and simple, the WRX is a better buy. Truth is, fuck the Spec, I own one, and it's nothing but headaches. One problem after another, big and small. From dash lights flickering to transmission replacemnt, it's the new Nissan. Shift....That is from reliable cars to building junk. That is my new opinion of Nissan. They are building junk and not standing behind their fuck ups. Buy the god damn Subaru and save yourself trips to the dealer for repairs.


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## V Dude (Oct 22, 2002)

No problems with my Spec V.


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## germex (Jan 15, 2003)

I have to agree with chimmike. A car is an investment. Not like a home or stock, but in the sense of how much time and money you have to put into it down the road. You can buy a car and send it to the service shop once a month and fight for it to be under warranty, or you can buy a car and not have to worry about it. Not having to ever take it to the dealer for repairs. Because some manufacturers know the value of putting a high quality vehicle in your hands off the line. Nissan doesn't. That's my opinion, you can argue all you want, but I'm sitting here with a lemon in my hands and Nissan is telling me to GFM. FucK Nissan! I believe there was a time when they built one of the most reliable cars on the road, now, IMO, they're right along side of Chrysler products. I will never buy another Nisssan as long as I live. Fuck you Nissan, you build junk!


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

dude germex we get the point, you got a lemon, several people have. But that's no reason to go around saying every spec, every sentra, or even every nissan is a POS. That's just plain naive. Just about all of the spec's out there are problem free, and EVERY car manufacturer has lemons, just look at VW/Audi


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2003)

i bought my spec on the spot, 14,999, u cant go wrong, but read all that the owners of spec v's complain abouit, and the same for the wrx, i am on my second tranny, but still loyal, but looking back i would spend the extra $bling$ for a awd turbo, but there are custom turbos out for the spec, maybe ill get one of those,  maybe


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## V Dude (Oct 22, 2002)

A car is not an investment! That is one of the mosty ridiculous things I've heard on here.

Definition: "the outlay of money usually for income or profit"
or
"Property or another possession acquired for future financial return or benefit. "

There is no future financial return from getting a car, unless it's a rare special car. That would be like saying "I like sports, I am buying these $2000 front row season tickets because they are an investment!"


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

dude, it's an investment because you're spending tens of thousands of dollars on something you hope to be reliable and fun, and the car WILL give you a return in the form of transportation, You just don't get it. If car buying wasn't an investment, it wouldn't be such a difficult decision, would it? People have to weigh the benefits against the costs, or basically the returns on their investment. 
Investments ARE NOT always involved with monetary returns. 
I think I should know, I'm an accounting/finance major, a senior.
If it wasn't an investment, you'd just go out and buy any old car, regardless of the options.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

I have to agree with chimmike here, would you consider a house an investment? You definately lose money on a house, for one it's not worth as much as it was when you bought it, and for another you end up paying way way more than the cost of the house in interest on your loan. I still consider a house an investment, because you said it yourself V Dude, "Property or another possession acquired for future financial return or *benefit*". The benefit of a car is being able to drive wherever whenever, the benefit of a house is shelter. Regardless of whether you make money on it, both are still pieces of property worth a lot of money that give you some sort of gain or return, be it monetary or other.


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## V Dude (Oct 22, 2002)

Well, if you use the word "benefit" then anything is an investment. Buying a Big Mac is an investment, since I will enjoy it and eat it later. But that's a really broad definition, and then makes this whole argument pointless.

Houses are completely different. Property values often go up. I know my parents' house is worth more now than when they bought it. People regularly invest in real estate and properties, but only rarely in cars (not wrx's). 

When people say a house is an "investment," it isn't because you are getting the benefit of shelter. It's because you can make money off it!

I guess it's an argument about definition, and I am looking at it from an business/financial point of view, where an investment is meant to make you money.


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## V Dude (Oct 22, 2002)

One more point- in accounting, cars are depreciated in the books because their value is constantly decreasing. Property like houses and land are not depreciated. There's a reason for that.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

V Dude said:


> *
> Houses are completely different. Property values often go up. I know my parents' house is worth more now than when they bought it. People regularly invest in real estate and properties, but only rarely in cars (not wrx's).
> 
> When people say a house is an "investment," it isn't because you are getting the benefit of shelter. It's because you can make money off it!
> *


But that's the thing, you only make money off of it if you buy the house with cash. Say you take out a 30 year loan on a 200k house at 5% financing. By the end of the loan you've paid around 150k in interest alone, plus the cost of the house. Then even if you sell it for 100k more than you bought it for you're still losing money. Property rarely makes you money, it might seem like it because you sell it for more than you bought it for, but you still lose money.


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## muphasta (Aug 12, 2002)

Depends on where you are buying. Here in San Diego, property is going through the roof! I bought a condo in Dec, and it is already worth $30k more than the price we paid. W/houses, there is something called equity. I now have over $30K in equity in my house. I have NO equity in my car, because the depreciation outpaces my payments. Also, w/a house, you get tax benefits, I get no tax benefits from my car. 

Unless it is a super rare car, or #1 off the line, a car is no investment. Don't forget how much $$ you put into your car. Gas, oil, maint. and mods. You could put $1k into mods, but not have the value of the car go up 1 cent. Put $10k into a house, and the value goes up $10k or more.

A car, like a big mac, is a consumable.


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## V Dude (Oct 22, 2002)

sr20dem0n said:


> *But that's the thing, you only make money off of it if you buy the house with cash. Say you take out a 30 year loan on a 200k house at 5% financing. By the end of the loan you've paid around 150k in interest alone, plus the cost of the house. Then even if you sell it for 100k more than you bought it for you're still losing money. Property rarely makes you money, it might seem like it because you sell it for more than you bought it for, but you still lose money. *


In that case, a house is a very poor investment. Personally I think buying a house as an investment is overrated. It's gotten hype because property values soared the past decade, but it won't last forever. I would leave it to the experts, who make plenty of money buying and selling real estate. It's the land that is the good investment.


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## V Dude (Oct 22, 2002)

sr20dem0n said:


> *I still consider a house an investment, because you said it yourself V Dude, "Property or another possession acquired for future financial return or benefit". *


The way I read this, the benefit is also "financial." It really means "financial return or financial benefit."

So buying land may not make you money directly, but if you use it to build a plant and manufacture products, then it is giving you a financial benefit.

I guess cars can be looked at the same way, but not really if they are just for personal use. Maybe if you use it as a taxi or something.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

muphasta said:


> *Depends on where you are buying. Here in San Diego, property is going through the roof! I bought a condo in Dec, and it is already worth $30k more than the price we paid. W/houses, there is something called equity. I now have over $30K in equity in my house. I have NO equity in my car, because the depreciation outpaces my payments. Also, w/a house, you get tax benefits, I get no tax benefits from my car.
> 
> Unless it is a super rare car, or #1 off the line, a car is no investment. Don't forget how much $$ you put into your car. Gas, oil, maint. and mods. You could put $1k into mods, but not have the value of the car go up 1 cent. Put $10k into a house, and the value goes up $10k or more.
> 
> A car, like a big mac, is a consumable. *


you're right, but with a car you have equity too, when it's payed off you now have a car that you can sell and get money back. Granted it isn't nearly as much as you paid for it, but it's still something. If you lease a car then that is definately NOT an investment, but I believe buying a car is. You might not get tax benefits with a car, but a house is one of the only investments where you do get tax benefits, that's not really a requirement to be an investment.


"It's the land that is the good investment."
very very true

random thought - we are so far off topic it isn't even funny! LOL


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

V Dude said:


> *One more point- in accounting, cars are depreciated in the books because their value is constantly decreasing. Property like houses and land are not depreciated. There's a reason for that. *



buildings are depreciated. Land is the only thing that isn't......however, parts of land used for mining for logging applications are depreciated, or "depleted", same thing.


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## V Dude (Oct 22, 2002)

chimmike said:


> *buildings are depreciated. Land is the only thing that isn't......however, parts of land used for mining for logging applications are depreciated, or "depleted", same thing. *


Yeah, and they are depleted because you are taking out something of value, like gold, and that will hold it's value (for the most part).

Anyways, it all depends on the definition. I was thinking financially. I would say a truck if used for a towing company is an investment. For personal use, the best financial bang for the buck would be a 10-13k car and keep it for 10 years. 

If cars are your hobby, I guess that could be a different type of investment.


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## germex (Jan 15, 2003)

sr20dem0n said:


> *dude germex we get the point, you got a lemon, several people have. But that's no reason to go around saying every spec, every sentra, or even every nissan is a POS. That's just plain naive. Just about all of the spec's out there are problem free, and EVERY car manufacturer has lemons, just look at VW/Audi *


Your right. I'll sit back and STFU. I did get a lemon and it just makes me mad that Nissan is giving me such a hard time about everything. No more drinking and venting.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

germex said:


> *Your right. I'll sit back and STFU. I did get a lemon and it just makes me mad that Nissan is giving me such a hard time about everything. No more drinking and venting. *



haha nissan gives everyone a hard time.

go over to www.b15sentra.net and read every thread by Vibrant-V Want to know what a lemon is? get this. He found a HAT in his fender..............a hat from the nissan plant. body panels didnt' fit right, paint was horrible, engines and trannies were crap......etc.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

germex said:


> * it just makes me mad that Nissan is giving me such a hard time about everything. *


I know what you mean...it just isn't right


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## philip_g (Jul 30, 2003)

I dunno man. I sold my WRX and bought a used spec V. the WRX was a POS.


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

> random thought - we are so far off topic it isn't even funny! LOL


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## germex (Jan 15, 2003)

chimmike said:


> *haha nissan gives everyone a hard time.
> 
> go over to www.b15sentra.net and read every thread by Vibrant-V Want to know what a lemon is? get this. He found a HAT in his fender..............a hat from the nissan plant. body panels didnt' fit right, paint was horrible, engines and trannies were crap......etc. *


Unreal. How the hell does crap like that get out of the factory? They need to send a couple of Japanese guys down there to Mexico to supervise quality control. That is if they even give a shit about quality anymore. Seems like all anyone cares about is that "almighty dollar". Build 'em and sell 'em as quick as you can. Sheesh, I sound like an old fart don't I? LOL


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## philip_g (Jul 30, 2003)

You don't think the WRX has transmission problems? head over to www.nasioc.com and read through the transmission forum. You'll see many "I blew 1st gear" or "grinding in gear X" posts.

how about clutches? there was a poll, the average clutch life was less than 30k. Subaru had a clutch TSB out to replace the entire thing for an annoying shudder problem and it STILL didn't fix the issue.

People complain about paint? EVERY car board complains about paint (subaru paint is WAAAAAAAAAAY worse than nissans)

also, if you live up at altitude the turbo lag is REALLY annoying. Off the line until 3200 when the turbo starts to spool a civic DX had me. The little 2.0 flat 4 just has NO power up at my alt. without the turbo. I'd skip the WRX and go for the turbo forrester and put a larger turbo on it


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## Scissors (Mar 24, 2003)

WRX. No contest.


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## GIANNI (Apr 28, 2003)

My buddy spanks my spec v every time and every time i think i might be able to take him. Bottom line my spec v is fast enough for me. But non the less i hate to lose!


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## theimportscene (Jan 29, 2003)

thanx for the input everyone... i ended up w/ a 03 spec.... 17.5K w/ 0.9% financing.... around $300/month w/ 1000 down...
the cheapest rex i found was 25K stripped down + tax and no appealing financing rate... pushing close to $500/month... 

im satisfied w/ it so far... its fairly quick around town and not as much a drag in rush hour as my b14..... 

i drove my buddys 02 rex wagon a few days ago and it felt like a dog below 3K.... almost as slow as my b14... im used to shifting at 3K cuz the spec is still breaking in... plus im waiting for the first oil change + header to unleash the beast!

past 3K the rex is a monster, and i pushed it to 4K a few times, but it wasnt mines.... so i was being careful... it was harder than imagined to keep it under control... sweet ride, nevertheless

sonny


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## verno-dub (Sep 13, 2002)

Congrats on your new purchase! I've have been noticing a lot of aftermarket tuners are starting to take an intrest in the 2.5L motor. A lot of good things will come of this. Thank Dave Coleman for starting the push for after market engine parts on this engine!

WOOOHOOO!


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## Paul Sullivan (Nov 27, 2003)

I think that most of these people are not giving the spec enough credit. We all understand that the WRX is a faster car, it had better be for 6k. There is more to a car then a 1/4 mile time. I test drove both cars before I bought my 2002 spec. For me there was almost no price difference becouse these were both used cars. I thought that the powerband on the Wrx was a little peaky. It felt like you had to work it to get any torque from the engine. The spec was a smooth driving torque that makes it feel like its a 6 cylinder rather then a screaming four banger. The ride quality is great, you don't need to beat the shit out of it to get torque. As far as handling goes the spec is incredible(weather permitting). I have read many rewies where the spec pulled better slolom times then the wrx. This is not to say I don't love the WRX. My friend bought one and i love to drive it. We both (stock) took our cars to the track. I pulled a 15.4 while he pulled a 14.7. When we race on the street things are a little different though. The spec had drive by wire giving it instant throttle reponse, that coupled with its high torque makes the spec keep up with cars that would normally take it. i dont beat my friends wrx during street starts(usually on the Highway) but i do keep with in a few car lengths.


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## ch3ap b-12er (Aug 7, 2003)

one thing that people failed to mention is that the wrx is a bigger car, more interior space, and you can get a wagon, I'm all for speed and performance, but doesn't beating a mullet sporting toothless camaro driver sound more appealing with your four closest buddies in the car?


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## MDMA (Oct 23, 2002)

Goto b15sentra and look around...Dealerships are selling the 04 Spec V's with brembo package and sunroof for only 14,900 
Buy an 04 with all the goodies and get a body kit some rims and a turbo with all that extra money. Or just do basic bolt ons and safe yourself 8-10K


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## Estis Fatuus (Jul 17, 2003)

I'm in that same sorta deliemma, only I'm choosing the Spec because I don't think I'm mature enough to get behind the wheel of anything with a turbo. The Spec-V seems like a pretty good deal and has a kick ass stereo ass an option. I wonder if the new brake upgrade will fit the older Spec V, and I wonder how long it will take Nissan to realize that the new Spec V front end looks like shit. Take the WRX if you can... take the Spec if your a little more budget minded.


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## theimportscene (Jan 29, 2003)

wow, this post is still going????
just an update, i got an 03 spec v; nismo CAI, nismo header w/o cat, nismo lowdown kit so far @ 9000 miles w/ 0 problems :thumbup:


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## V Dude (Oct 22, 2002)

Wow, 9,000 miles? I have only 17,000 on my 2002 Spec V.

How do you like the Nismo suspension kit? I'll be getting it soon.


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## theimportscene (Jan 29, 2003)

V Dude said:


> Wow, 9,000 miles? I have only 17,000 on my 2002 Spec V.
> 
> How do you like the Nismo suspension kit? I'll be getting it soon.


yea... i took it to chi-town a coupla times, toronto a coupla times;
the nismo kit is awesome... very close to stock; plus the 1" front and .6" rear drop makes the car look very level and handle great.... 
:cheers:


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## MDMA (Oct 23, 2002)

41K on my ride with NO problems... I've had every bolt-on or bolt off the car for over a year now too. Car handles everything like a champ.


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## caveman (Dec 20, 2003)

After owning a Spec V and test driving a WRX, I would get the WRX in a heart beat over a Spec V. AWD is better then FWD. I don't care what anyone on this list says, Subaru quality is better then the Spec V. I'd rank the Spec V quality right up there with the 2G TELs. I havn't decited what car is worse yet.

Our cars have paint problems, tranny problems, and too many recalls. As far as recalls go, I'm not sure they got all the vins included in the precat recall, and the CAS recall. We took our 03 to the dealer and we've had the exhaust hanger fixed, and the ECU case linning or whatever the problem is. They didn't do the ECU reflash, and they didn't do the CAS recall. Maybe our car really isn't covered and doesn't need the other two recalls done, but our exhaust has always sounded like a popcorn machine after driving it. A problem (from reading forums) seems to go away after the ECU reflash. Our tranny doesn't work when it is cold. 1st to 2nd grinds. It doesn't want to go in to 1st unless it is forced well beyond normal force. Also it doesn't want to go from 3rd to 2nd when cold as well. Again, way too much force is needed. The car has been to 3 dealers for the tranny. Two said they couldn't duplicate a problem, and the 3rd said that it was normal. While the fix might be synthetic tranny fluid, the dammage has already been done. I'm getting rid of this problematic POS at 35K miles and never buying a Nissan or Infinity for the rest of my life.

That's just me though. I wish I could go back in time, pay a little extra for the WRX and have a better car. It's cost a lot more in headachs and frustration with the Spec V. For people who don't have problems, I'm glad for you, but for the rest who have bad ones, it's not fun at all.

As far as the WRX clutch wearing out early, that would be due to high RPM AWD launching. Not a bad clutch disk. I wore out my clutch disk on my AWD turbo in about 8 hard launches. It was replaced with a ACT 2600 and I've been on the same PP and disk for over 3 years now.


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## MDMA (Oct 23, 2002)

So, you've taken in the car to 3 different dealerships and no one has been able to duplicate the problems you say your car has?
Did you ever think you don't have a problem?
My dealership is cool as hell. Went in for my re-calls and they recharged my coolant system, rotated my tires, bumped my timing up, bumped my fuel/injectors up 25% all for FREE... I have a 02 though. The tranny is nothing like the RSX tranny and it's notchy as hell but that is it. Notchy doesn't mean BAD...
Are you guys/gals sure all these problems aren't your own doing? Thats only if you actually have problems...
I read about so many bad things but my personal experience with my car and my clubs cars has been pretty good. A few complaints about the notchy tranny but with synthetic fluid and a B&M SS your strait as F-ck.


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## caveman (Dec 20, 2003)

Well the 3rd dealership did see that the sifter was really stiff when cold, but he said that was normal. The problem is that are tranny acually grinds gears when going from 1st to 2nd. I started about a month after we got the car and the weather got cold. I compained about it to the dealer, but they gave a generic CND crap. BTW any dealer on any car will diagnose CND if there isn't a known fix. It doesn't mean that there isn't a real problem.

As far as are doing. We have been driving manual transmision cars since we've been driving. I know how to drive them and ours is crap. The tranny is junk. The car is used as a daily driver and has never been raced or abused.


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## MDMA (Oct 23, 2002)

15 years of manuals...nothing but. I like having ALL the feel and control of the car. Either way you might have just got a lemon...or I should say a bad seed. Mine is notchy in 2nd/3rd but that is about it...notchy isn't grinding. Two totally different things. I take mine to the track regularly but drive nice and calm normally.


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## Jsee (Jan 12, 2004)

*Just my Two Cents..*

Just my Two cents, I brought my vehicle back to the dealership multiple times and complained about the shifting. Later, I come to find out almost a year later, that I no longer have a "grinding" probelm from 1st to 2nd, but still have the "notchy" problem from 2nd to 3rd... I know this may sound stupid, But the 1st to 2nd grinding probelm when away, and it was all about my arm and hand position going from 1st to 2nd. Instead of hold my arm down my by my side and grabbing the shifter like a gun handle, I kind of cover the shifter knob, over hand pull from 1st to 2nd. Believe it or not, it has made my in town and casual driving much more pleasant...so for me, it was all about shifing mechanics.. foot, clutch, shift.


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## Matrix021 (Aug 21, 2002)

V Dude said:


> A car is not an investment! That is one of the mosty ridiculous things I've heard on here.
> 
> Definition: "the outlay of money usually for income or profit"
> or
> ...


I beg to differ... I know this is an old thread... but I have to say this. I have a B.S. in Business Admin and know a little something about investments. Automobiles, from an accounting standpoint, fall under Plant, Property, and Equipment. These are assests. The only reason you purchase assets are to increase the capability of a business to make profit, such as the purchase of inventory, buildings, machinery... and yes.. cars. By your own definition, you agree that cars are investments. It is a possession acquired for future financial return or benefit. How? If you're a business owner, and buy a van to make deliveries, because it would be cheaper to ship inventory yourselves than pay someone to do it, you save money... resulting in financial gain... right? How about the normal guy like you or me? Fact of the matter is, we get cars to make our lives easier, and depending on type of commute you have, may be cheaper than public transport. So in this case, we have a future benefit called convenience (benefits aren't always monetary) and we save money. Going by your other definition, we spend money for the car. Right? This car allows us to go to work which gives us income. Now... tell me again... how is a car NOT an investment?


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## Blank (Aug 21, 2003)

Matrix021 said:


> I beg to differ... I know this is an old thread... but I have to say this. I have a B.S. in Business Admin and know a little something about investments. Automobiles, from an accounting standpoint, fall under Plant, Property, and Equipment. These are assests. The only reason you purchase assets are to increase the capability of a business to make profit, such as the purchase of inventory, buildings, machinery... and yes.. cars. By your own definition, you agree that cars are investments. It is a possession acquired for future financial return or benefit. How? If you're a business owner, and buy a van to make deliveries, because it would be cheaper to ship inventory yourselves than pay someone to do it, you save money... resulting in financial gain... right? How about the normal guy like you or me? Fact of the matter is, we get cars to make our lives easier, and depending on type of commute you have, may be cheaper than public transport. So in this case, we have a future benefit called convenience (benefits aren't always monetary) and we save money. Going by your other definition, we spend money for the car. Right? This car allows us to go to work which gives us income. Now... tell me again... how is a car NOT an investment?


 what your saying is correct from a business geek standpoint, it reminded me of economics in a spine tingling shuddering way...

i think the point being made was Just the car, no benefits outside the actual car, as in the car will appreciate in value all other things being equal(ceterus paribus...)


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## Matrix021 (Aug 21, 2002)

blankgazex said:


> what your saying is correct from a business geek standpoint, it reminded me of economics in a spine tingling shuddering way...
> 
> i think the point being made was Just the car, no benefits outside the actual car, as in the car will appreciate in value all other things being equal(ceterus paribus...)


hehehhe... yes... I do understand what you're saying... it's just that the 2 people were going back and forward about is it an investment.. or isn't it... and really... to the lay person, regardless of it's future resale value... buying a car is an investment... plain and simple... but that one guy didn't think so... I guess you had to read the other posts to feel me on my response... eh.. lol


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## Blank (Aug 21, 2003)

Matrix021 said:


> hehehhe... yes... I do understand what you're saying... it's just that the 2 people were going back and forward about is it an investment.. or isn't it... and really... to the lay person, regardless of it's future resale value... buying a car is an investment... plain and simple... but that one guy didn't think so... I guess you had to read the other posts to feel me on my response... eh.. lol


 i get what your saying, but in a related sense, a shitty hyundai with a tiny ass motor would be a better investment because of increased utilty by better gas milage as well as less upfront costs while retaining the utility of convenience to you. there fore the cheapes, gas sipping shit box would be the best " investment" to the average consumer, thouh not to, say a farmer who needs a truck, and a 2 door, big ass V8 viper would be the worst invesment due to high gas consuption and low utility(only 2 seats, limited storage bad milage etc...)

we are making two opposite points, both of which make sence depending on how you look at it... isnt economics fun!?!


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## Matrix021 (Aug 21, 2002)

blankgazex said:


> i get what your saying, but in a related sense, a shitty hyundai with a tiny ass motor would be a better investment because of increased utilty by better gas milage as well as less upfront costs while retaining the utility of convenience to you. there fore the cheapes, gas sipping shit box would be the best " investment" to the average consumer, thouh not to, say a farmer who needs a truck, and a 2 door, big ass V8 viper would be the worst invesment due to high gas consuption and low utility(only 2 seats, limited storage bad milage etc...)
> 
> we are making two opposite points, both of which make sence depending on how you look at it... isnt economics fun!?!


LOL... so we agree... bad or not... better or worse... it is an investment... hahahaha.... btw... if you're takin' business as a major.. good luck to ya...


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## Blank (Aug 21, 2003)

Matrix021 said:


> LOL... so we agree... bad or not... better or worse... it is an investment... hahahaha.... btw... if you're takin' business as a major.. good luck to ya...


 how about quit business cause sh*t like this everyday gave me a headache, and graduated witha BS in pol science instead???


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## Matrix021 (Aug 21, 2002)

blankgazex said:


> how about quit business cause sh*t like this everyday gave me a headache, and graduated witha BS in pol science instead???


hahahaha... that was my backup plan


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## Blank (Aug 21, 2003)

Matrix021 said:


> hahahaha... that was my backup plan


damn, if you stayed in you are a better man then me...


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## 02bluespec (Jan 13, 2004)

tekmode said:


> but atleast you have a turbo car to mess around with...unlike me


Yeah, I want a turbo too.


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## 02bluespec (Jan 13, 2004)

verno-dub said:


> Congrats on your new purchase! I've have been noticing a lot of aftermarket tuners are starting to take an intrest in the 2.5L motor. A lot of good things will come of this. Thank Dave Coleman for starting the push for after market engine parts on this engine!
> 
> WOOOHOOO!



Finally a car that I own is getting aftermarket attention. Unlike my first car, pos suzuki samurai. It was great for offroad, but I preffer speed on the street before offroad capability. :thumbup:


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## 02bluespec (Jan 13, 2004)

caveman said:


> After owning a Spec V and test driving a WRX, I would get the WRX in a heart beat over a Spec V. AWD is better then FWD. I don't care what anyone on this list says, Subaru quality is better then the Spec V. I'd rank the Spec V quality right up there with the 2G TELs. I havn't decited what car is worse yet.
> 
> Our cars have paint problems, tranny problems, and too many recalls. As far as recalls go, I'm not sure they got all the vins included in the precat recall, and the CAS recall. We took our 03 to the dealer and we've had the exhaust hanger fixed, and the ECU case linning or whatever the problem is. They didn't do the ECU reflash, and they didn't do the CAS recall. Maybe our car really isn't covered and doesn't need the other two recalls done, but our exhaust has always sounded like a popcorn machine after driving it. A problem (from reading forums) seems to go away after the ECU reflash. Our tranny doesn't work when it is cold. 1st to 2nd grinds. It doesn't want to go in to 1st unless it is forced well beyond normal force. Also it doesn't want to go from 3rd to 2nd when cold as well. Again, way too much force is needed. The car has been to 3 dealers for the tranny. Two said they couldn't duplicate a problem, and the 3rd said that it was normal. While the fix might be synthetic tranny fluid, the dammage has already been done. I'm getting rid of this problematic POS at 35K miles and never buying a Nissan or Infinity for the rest of my life.
> 
> ...


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## 02bluespec (Jan 13, 2004)

Jsee said:


> Just my Two cents, I brought my vehicle back to the dealership multiple times and complained about the shifting. Later, I come to find out almost a year later, that I no longer have a "grinding" probelm from 1st to 2nd, but still have the "notchy" problem from 2nd to 3rd... I know this may sound stupid, But the 1st to 2nd grinding probelm when away, and it was all about my arm and hand position going from 1st to 2nd. Instead of hold my arm down my by my side and grabbing the shifter like a gun handle, I kind of cover the shifter knob, over hand pull from 1st to 2nd. Believe it or not, it has made my in town and casual driving much more pleasant...so for me, it was all about shifing mechanics.. foot, clutch, shift.


Yup, It works. Some how, it feels as though it goes into second a little easier.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

blankgazex said:


> i get what your saying, but in a related sense, a shitty hyundai with a tiny ass motor would be a better investment because of increased utilty by better gas milage as well as less upfront costs while retaining the utility of convenience to you. there fore the cheapes, gas sipping shit box would be the best " investment" to the average consumer, thouh not to, say a farmer who needs a truck, and a 2 door, big ass V8 viper would be the worst invesment due to high gas consuption and low utility(only 2 seats, limited storage bad milage etc...)
> 
> we are making two opposite points, both of which make sence depending on how you look at it... isnt economics fun!?!


Utility isn't just defined as practical uses, but also enjoyment and fulfillment by using the product. A viper would be hella fun, so it too could be a worthy investment if you could afford it.

Yes I hate business, that's why I'm in electrical engineering


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## MDMA (Oct 23, 2002)

Matrix021 said:


> LOL... so we agree... bad or not... better or worse... it is an investment... hahahaha.... btw... if you're takin' business as a major.. good luck to ya...


Yes, a car is an investment, a very POOR investment to any and all average consumers. 
But, they sure are fun...  They're fun before, during, and after getting a degree.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Have you ever raced a wrx? Have you ever got your ass handed to you by a wrx? I raced one in one of my friends Zs with like 500 at the wheel horses and we got smoked off the line and eventually caught up. Plus I have a friend with a spec v and along with it came a load of warranty problems. What is the discussion here? I love Nissans as much as the next dumbass, but this discussion should exceed the dumbass limit for this forum. It should just stop. One is an econobox that is suped up and one is a rally champion.


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## MDMA (Oct 23, 2002)

WRX's are nice 24+K cars. But, they are not fast cars. Faster then the specv yes. But, not fast. And they have a lot of warranty problems too. If you can get a specv for 17K or under it would be a hands down better deal.
Fully bolted spec's keep up and/or beat wrx's at the 1/4 track. Of course the wrx's are LIGHTLY modded or stock.. 
Best bang for your buck would be the srt-4


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## rexkiller (Feb 29, 2004)

it's like this my brother has a wrx and his car is seriously fast we put everything into it new turbo,injectors every thing you can think of (his car beats my dads *VIPER*) deffinatly get the WRX even stock it beats most cars out there. don;t get me wrong the spec is a geat car but from a performance point of veiw the wrx is far better in stock form
heres an idea go to specplace.com and you can compare the cars on the left of the page there is a car comparison click on the more button under the list of car that they give you adn the wrx come up


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## tryptych (Mar 14, 2004)

*wrx vs. spec-v*

This is almost laughable. By far, the WRX is the way to go. There are already hundreds of aftermaket parts for the WRX. One upside, the WRX is available in Japan, which means very high quality parts are made for it. The Sentra is only sold in the U.S., which means we only get a few parts and a small following. Besides, just look at the drivetrain. Front-wheel drive versus all-wheel drive, wow, that's a hard decision (sarcastic). If down the road you don't want your WRX to be all-wheel drive, there is a center differential sold to allow you to send all power to the rear wheels so you can drift, burnout, do doughnuts or whatever.


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## Lucino200sx (Apr 30, 2002)

Wrx !


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

Alright, I think enough opinions, facts, and arguments have gone on in here. Best out of the box capability=WRX. Cheaper, good bang for the buck as well=Spec V.


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