# Realistic Pricing for Skylines



## 96skylineguy (Apr 30, 2005)

Okay time to get some input, and please keep this on a serious level do to the fact that I am taking the general tuner population's input on this into the consideration for the new company. I am looking to see what kind of input I get here before for I make my decision on profit margin. I am not going to be another Motorex/R&B Motoring, I am only going to be selling Skylines that are already legalized for US use I will not take orders for cars. There are federal guidelines for conversations to US specifications that need to be met, and it is something the other 2 companies have ignored as far as I can tell. I dont know their agreements/arrangements but it states you have 120 days to complete the conversion on the non-conforming vehicles, but I have personally been told it would be over a year before a skyline would be ready. So back to the subject at hand. I dont have all the overhead that the other 2 companies had to deal with, or at least not near the amount because I am limiting the years of my cars from 1993-1996 for the time being. Just to throw out some numbers here and get your input on what you guys think.

If I can get a '96 R33 GTR with 22000 miles shipped from Japan for $22,800.00 and consider the conversion actually costing near $8000-$11000. What do you guys thing would be a "fair" asking price for sale? Please be serious and understand without a profit margin companies DO NOT OPERATE. Again I dont know the exact cost of the conversion and I am estimating the cost. So it may be less it may be more so keep that in mind before you post what you think. If you have any other comments or questions you can email me at [email protected]. Thanks for your input guys, I appreciate it!


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

I don't know, Motorex had some R33 GTR's (forgot the mileage) but they were asking anywhere from 38-50K.

33,800 would be breaking even saying the conversion cost 11K.

I'm thinking somewhere in the 40-43K range would be sufficient. Maybe a bit higher... Somewhere around 10K profit per car.


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## celm (Dec 15, 2003)

the only thing you can do right now is give an idea on what it will cost.cause until you get one done thats when you will get an idea whats the over head per car.when everything said and done it may run more then 11k to do all the work.and to do a 96,i dont think getting a OBD2 system done ,installed and working the way it suppose to will be cheap.but if you can get a skyline legal,more power to ya


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## celm (Dec 15, 2003)

96skylineguy said:


> If I can get a '96 R33 GTR with 22000 miles shipped from Japan for $22,800.00 !


thats accually a bit high for a 96 .i can get a 96 cheaper then that FOB to miami with Row-Row.if you need help in getting cars i can help you


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## swing (May 2, 2005)

I think <>40k would be reasonable.


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## T200Sx (Jan 17, 2005)

honestly imo if you have to ask about a price its already to much for you..sorry but its life


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## 96skylineguy (Apr 30, 2005)

Well thanks for the input guys I really appreciated it, I was thinking near 40-42k personally. But I dont want to be gouging everyone that I know wants these cars like I do. But I have to keep in business to, I am doing this for the love of the car and to make money so all I asked for was honest opinions. Two answer a few posts here, I get 15-20% off the cars if I buy more then 2 at a time, I have a great deal already set up about I do appreciate the offer for helping with them. I have 2 investors already and we have all decided on our plan of who and were to buy them from. For the post about "if you are asking about pricing" get educated before you come into a posting and say something. I already have in my possession in the US 2 R33 GTRs and 2 R33 GTS25T-Mspecs. I just purchased a US Titled/Vin's/Registered R34 GTR done by Motorex strictly for research. So dont worry about my financial capabilities to purchase or cover the costs of my company. I have attracted more investors then I would even ever want because most of the people over here that I work with know my dedication to whatever I put my head to, otherwise I would not have been in Iraq for 2 years 7 months working as a GS12 DOD Contractor trying to get the capital to start this whole thing. I have heard alot of people coming out and saying this is going to be costly, for the last time I KNOW. I have the capabilities and the resources needed to accomplish this. The support and input I have received on just a few of the skyline forums I use has been enlightening throughout my investigation and I appreciate all the info that people have openly and honestly given me. I will keep looking at this post to see what else is stated.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Hah, little off topic but how many times have you taken the R34 out on the street?


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## 96skylineguy (Apr 30, 2005)

In Japan I have personally driven a 96 GTR, 98 GTR and 99 GTR. I have actually gone to the shop for the company where I am going to be buying my cars from. I wanted to see the location and storage facility that they used so that I knew that I was getting quality cars from them.


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## MaxingOut (May 29, 2005)

:jawdrop: Jeez...I can't even replace a frickin water pump on my maxima, although I am going to try. Sounds like you got a good thing going on.


GOOD LUCK!!!!


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## mrh (May 12, 2003)

I can absolutely GUARANTEE you will not be able to legalize a Skyline for $8-11000... It would be physically impossible, even if you manufactured all the necessary parts yourself. 

When Motorex put their prices up saying the conversion on an R32/33 was in the region of $15000, they weren't too far off the ball, infact, i'd be tempted to say they never made any money on the Sale of Skylines, at all!!
The EPA side of it, isn't too difficult to get a Skyline through a Smog Check, but silly little things like Headlights are where the trouble commences, and being able to prove Airbag deployment times, since the DOT have decided that only cars with Airbags have the Potential of being legalized at the moment... which has simply meant all the R32's we have bought, are useless until we find a resolution to their decision! Meanwhile, our 1997 and newer cars are still on the shelf, due to the known OBD II dilemma.

We've been working on this, hands-on for 27 months solid now... We would have to sell ALOT of cars to recover the costs we've put into this project, to date.
Making a DOT approved set of headlights has cost us just over $70'000... Seventy Grand just on the headlights, and that's not for a few dozen cases of remanufactured headlights, that's converting two original headlight units, off a 1995 R33 and making the DOT say, yeah ok... that satisfys us!!! All because the light beam needs to shoot in the opposite direction and exactly to their specs. 
You'll be pleased to know, however, that only the Projector HID lights will be approved at this point, and all 94-96 Skylines will come with those. But bare this in mind, the HID systems are still nowhere near cheap and only certain Skylines came with the projector light lenses, most had the twin halogen headlight units, which have simply not been approved... So they have to all be changed out... that costs ALOT!

We have 17 cars, in a storage fascility in California and are possibly the closest people in the US to having a car legalized, but still, the clock carries on ticking and the DOT keep asking for more pictures, more changes, more proof... 27 months later, we're hundreds and thousands of dollars into it, and no better off for it... and PRAYING they don't require crash testing, which is a very real scenario to anyone that is trying to legalize a non-US approved vehicle.

If the truth be known, Motorex was probably making a loss even trying to charge $25000 to perform the legalization... And i can tell you right now, i can see they cut corners, as the two cars i gave them intially, never were completed... and what work they did do, was a joke! 
We've torn apart our cars that Motorex supposedly made legal, we saw no real proof of anything outside of Catalytic converters, a welded bar in each door and a sign on the petrol cap saying unleaded only... Even the mirrors are meant to say 'objects are closer than they appear', by law... But they don't. We've had to do that to our 1995 car though and that was and is part of the DOT approval... Even the existing lights on the rear had to be removed and engraved with a DOT approval code on the lenses, that cost money... It all adds up.

Everyday i learn something new, and everyday we try to get closer to making this happen... We're close, i mean, really close, but if the DOT don't turn around and stamp our paperwork for approval soon, we'll be needing outside investors to help finish the job off!

Not trying to put you off the idea of starting the business of importation, but just bare in mind the costs involved... Unfortunately, the government have the final say if you want to do it right, and realistically, there IS only one way of doing it right.


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## swing (May 2, 2005)

mrh said:


> We have 17 cars, in a storage fascility in California and are possibly the closest people in the US to having a car legalized....


 :wtf: Not to doubt your words or what but I really want to see a shot of 17 Skylines parked togather, it's amazing.


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## 96skylineguy (Apr 30, 2005)

MRH,

I appreciate your input, that is very helpful. If you need investors we can talk cause I can point a few people in your direction. Due to the investor limits dictated by an LLC corporation I can only have 4 other investors. Each person over here makes near $258k/year after bonuses. So myself alone I have been here 2 years 7 months, and I have 4 investors from right here at the same camp I am at. I also have a 96 GTR done by Motorex in 2000 on its way from Greece. So trust in the fact that I will be doing some research into exactly what Motorex "legalizes". If we get enough people together to start making alot of these trival issues brought up by the legalization of the Skylines you might be suprised at what we can accomplish as far as what the government says. I have been working in the government or for the governement for the last 10 years. But that is another issue I was going to address when I get back state side. I have contacts in each government organization that I need to get approved by for the RI issue. I have been building these relationships for over a year, and they have been very good for information purposes. Maybe we can put our heads together, combine resources and help each other out. That is up to you but I would like to at least have a sit down with you when I get home. I will be back in California in the 1st 2 weeks of July and would be more then willingly come to your shop and take a look. I have to pick up one of my cars at the Long Beach port there to take back up to my shop in Oregon. If you want to discuss anything or maybe some business then email me at [email protected]. I will be moving forward with my company either way when I get home. But I will never turn away practical application knowledge. I hope to hear from you and good luck.


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## mrh (May 12, 2003)

Sent you an email Chris... Hope to hear from you soon
mrh


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## imoz (Jul 4, 2005)

*Some thoughts*

Have you done any market research and estimated what you think the actual demand for these cars are (demand by folks who can actually afford to buy the car)? I think once you have those numbers you could figure out your break even cost amortized over a couple of years and then adjust price accordingly.

I have been thinking about the idea of getting a Skyline myself, and I think one of the issues you may have is that once you start talking about a $40-50k investment in a car, there are a lot of other compelling options at that price point or slightly beyond - Esprit V-8 TT, 993, etc. Yeah there are a lot of folks who will say "But the Skyline is different" or "the Skyline is special" etc. and thats all well and good, and I agree with them, but realistically those other cars are going to suck some of your market away.

There's a ton of enthusiast interest in the car, but I'm curious what the actual demand really is. Can the market support 10 sales a year? 20? 50? Let's say you think the market can support more sales, but it will require some marketing. So then the question becomes how much marketing, what kind of demand will it drive, and at what cost? And then factor that into your cost of the car.

I know you are saying you have the financial backing and the motivation to make it happen, and that is cool. But, don't underestimate the costs involved, they will add up quickly. How quickly are you looking to recoup your R&D and ramp up costs? How quickly are your investors looking for a return? 

As an example, let's say your ramp up costs are $250,000, you spend an additional $50k in marketing in year 1, it costs you $20k per car to legalize for the first 5 cars because it takes a little more time while you figure out your processes etc., and $15k per car after that, with a $20k average base cost for the car shipped from Japan and let's say $2k per car for insurance/storage/other overhead. And you sell 10 cars your first year. So your first year costs are $695,000, assuming you don't need to hire any additional labor, etc. because that'll all be absorbed by your existing shops/businesses (clerk/secretary to do paperwork, etc.). From there it's a numbers game as far as how long you amortize your R&D expenses / how soon you want to start seeing ROI etc.

A couple of other things I was wondering/thinking about were, what does the legalization cost consist of or how does it break down between parts, labor, and other costs (bond, customs/brokerage fees, DOT fees etc.)?

And then the other thing I had been thinking is that maybe it makes sense to instead figure out a way to sell the car for even more money. Sounds crazy, but its been done with other products resulting in even more demand and more sales. The problem here is that Motorex has already kind of set a baseline price, so you would need to concoct some marketing spin to justify it.

Oh, and another thing I was thinking is...remember the market for these cars won't go on forever, but your costs are generally going to stay about the same. To me this means you should be looking to extract your return as quickly as possible, within 2 years maybe. In 3-5 years do you think the demand for these cars is going to be the same?

Anyway, I think you are going to need to sell the cars at around $35-40k or less to actually move any cars but $65-70k to make any money doing it. I just don't know how you make up that gap.

Let's see...another thing you might think about is figuring out a way to make the car more accessible to all the kids that post on the various boards about the car but can't afford to be a cash buyer. Maybe partner with a bank and come up with a financing program. Most folks aren't going to be able to walk into a bank and get a regular auto loan for a specialty vehicle like this. So maybe the way you make up some margin is by offering some creative financing. Figure out a way to sell them a lease payment similar or a little more than what they might pay for another import car they might choose.

And then another idea I was thinking of is maybe you need to come up with a way to make the cars your own custom branded version aka Ruf/Techart etc. Throw another $10k enhancing each vehicle, maybe throw some leather at it, wrap the dash in leather, custom leather and logo in the seats, some engine tuning, etc. and then mark the cars up another $25k and sell them as "96skylineguy special edition GT-R" 

Sorry for rambling, I tend to get a ton of ideas in my mind once I start thinking about something...


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## pimp1911 (Oct 22, 2004)

Chris I sent you an email as well.


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## Dustin (Dec 14, 2003)

Chris, I have also sent you an email concerning your website.


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