# Leaning out and don't think I should be. *kinda long*



## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

Cross posted from SR20forums

Ever since I put the stage 1 FMAX kit on my car I've run 8lbs reliably with no issues to date. With the 370's I dyno'd 221whp and 193tq. I didn't go beyond that in boost as I just wasn't getting the fuel needed in order to turn it up as I was still running lean but I was able to pull timing with my ignition,msdboost retard, and got everything in check.

Since then I've had the desire to turn the boost up, so my setup consists of the below;
Stock DE
T3/T4
JGY rail
50lb inj
Nismo FPR set at a solid 43psi
Walbro 255hiflow
cobra maf
S3 cams
JWT ECU 3bar

After putting the new stuff in the car runs smooth, really smooth. I was even able to set the timing back to stock with no issues. Great for me.

So this weekend we decide to hook up the wideband and then mess with the boost some. Fuel is 92 octane. So currently i'm running .6 bar(8lbs). We turn it up to .8 bar (about 10lbs) and the car is extremely strong all the way to redline in 1,2,3rd gears. But under heavy load, 4th gear, the car starts leaning out around 5500rpm, pulling a 12.8 and 12.9 afr. We try pulling a bit of timing to see if this helps any and it does a little better but still leaning out.

We turned it back down to .7 bar (9 or 9.5lbs) and we're still a little lean up top in 4th so we pulled a little timing and this is where I sit.

Is 8 or 9lbs the max I'm going to get out of this setup on pump gas without going to a standalone?

Any suggestions on what we can do to so I can turn the boost up a bit? I realize 92 octane isn't the best but at only 9lbs and still leaning out with what I have? I wouldn't think this should be an issue.

I'm just at the point now where I could have spent a lot less money, got a smaller turbo and had the same numbers I have now. Kind of dissappointed but I guess that happens.


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

Have you changed your fuel filter recently? Check for kinked fuel lines. Possibly there is a leak in the hose from the fuel pump to the connection inside the tank (not likely, though). 

Your setup should be good for 300+WHP.

Lew


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## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

brand new TT fuel filter.

I don't think it's the lines as like I said, no issues in the lower gears but under heavy load in 4th is when it starts leaning out.

Trying to figure out why.

I know I could put race gas in the car and maybe not have this issue but realistically I should be able to run 12psi on pump gas right?


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

what kind of management do you have? Is it programed for the new fuel, cam, and turbo upgrades?


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## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

JWT ECU 3bar. And yes it's reprogrammed for the 50lb injectors. I asked JWT if they needed to program for the Cams and they said they only program for the cams if the car is na so no issue there.

Unless there is something about the program that's causing the issue but I want to make sure it's not something else before I call JWT and ask them.

Does anyone know if the JWT ECU 'pulls' fuel and if this could be causing the issue?

Could it be my stock timing that's the problem?


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

iirc the best setup to run with the 50lb injectors is the 4 bar program.....that could be a small issue. 

what is the highest your a/f goes to? I'd say 12.8 is fairly safe. that still gives you more than a point flub space between that and Stoich..... Also what's your timing? perhaps get an EGT reading if you can.

and where is the wideband placed?


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## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

chimmike said:


> iirc the best setup to run with the 50lb injectors is the 4 bar program.....that could be a small issue.
> 
> what is the highest your a/f goes to? I'd say 12.8 is fairly safe. that still gives you more than a point flub space between that and Stoich..... Also what's your timing? perhaps get an EGT reading if you can.
> 
> and where is the wideband placed?


JWT doesn't offer the 4 bar with the 50lb anymore...as that's actually what I requested.

up to 12.9 when the car starts hesitating so I shut down as it's like the car hits a wall at that point.

EGT's stayed right around 800 degrees celcius which is 1472F.

The wideband sensor is reading after the turbo on the downpipe approx. 4-6 inches away.

We also had an OBDII scanner connected during this and the coolant temps were perfect, not that that has anything to do with it, and the timing stayed at 10degrees under boost


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

10* under boost? I don't know, but that seems a bit low to me........what is your base timing at? 14-15*?

you say there's hesitation at around 12.9 a/f? hmm. Perhaps there is a leak somewhere in the exhaust near the turbo mani or downpipe that could be causing a leak reading and hesitation?

I'm just throwing out ideas here, so bear with me.

too bad they don't make the 50lb 4 bar program anymore, too.


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## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

chimmike said:


> 10* under boost? I don't know, but that seems a bit low to me........what is your base timing at? 14-15*?
> 
> you say there's hesitation at around 12.9 a/f? hmm. Perhaps there is a leak somewhere in the exhaust near the turbo mani or downpipe that could be causing a leak reading and hesitation?
> 
> ...


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

What do the spark plugs look like just after a run. They should tell a story. For example if one is different from the rest, you've isolated the problem.

BTW the EGT is significantly lower after the turbo than in the exhaust manifold since the turbo takes a lot of energy out of the exhast gas.

Lew


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## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

lshadoff said:


> What do the spark plugs look like just after a run. They should tell a story. For example if one is different from the rest, you've isolated the problem.
> 
> BTW the EGT is significantly lower after the turbo than in the exhaust manifold since the turbo takes a lot of energy out of the exhast gas.
> 
> Lew


the EGT sensor is in the manifold, the sensor for the wideband is in the downpipe so the EGT's should be reading before the turbo

I'll check the plugs but they were fine when running 8lbs for over a year.


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

squeezinSE said:


> the EGT sensor is in the manifold, the sensor for the wideband is in the downpipe so the EGT's should be reading before the turbo
> 
> I'll check the plugs but they were fine when running 8lbs for over a year.


Yes, but everythingwas OK then. The best thing would be to put new plugs in and check them right after a run. Copper NGKs are cheap.

Lew


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## javierb14 (Jul 9, 2002)

12.8-12.9 is definitely lean....i prefer around 11.5:1 along with conservative timing on pump gas in my car. this keeps the motor happy and cyl pressures in check, i sacrifice a little hp for motor life 

have you tried or thought about fine tuning the car with an AFC or other piggyback? why are you using a boost retard device? the JWT ecu should be programmed for your setup. is the JWT programmed for the 370ccs or the 50lbers?

which wideband are you using? as mentioned before, have you checked the plugs? on the dyno, try a WOT pull and shut the motor down right after the pull. then pull the plugs and check them out....they tell you exactly what is going on. you can also do this on the street, but its more risky since you lose the power accesories (brakes, steering, etc)


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

but do you get 93 octane out there Javier? i think he gets 93.


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## javierb14 (Jul 9, 2002)

nothing but 91 over here  still, on 93 that would be to lean for me.


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## squeezinSE (Nov 15, 2002)

javierb14 said:


> have you tried or thought about fine tuning the car with an AFC or other piggyback? why are you using a boost retard device? the JWT ecu should be programmed for your setup. is the JWT programmed for the 370ccs or the 50lbers?
> 
> which wideband are you using? as mentioned before, have you checked the plugs? on the dyno, try a WOT pull and shut the motor down right after the pull. then pull the plugs and check them out....they tell you exactly what is going on. you can also do this on the street, but its more risky since you lose the power accesories (brakes, steering, etc)


Originally it was programmed for the 370's and I was still getting detonation. I used the boost retard to fix that and actually gained some power.

The ECU is programmed for the 50lb program.

I guess I'll try the plugs and see what happens. I never thought about using an AFC with the JWT as I thought the JWT was all I would need, at least that's how it's 'advertised'.

I'll try it on a dyno, we were just making runs on the freeway in 4th and noticed the leaning out. but like I said 1st-3rd are right in the 11.5 range all the way to redline.

I'll let you guys know. Thanks for the feedback.

:cheers: :thumbup:


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## javierb14 (Jul 9, 2002)

oic...ya, throw it on the dyno and datalog the AF and trq vs rpm. compare the dyno shops wideband to yours and check the plugs with a magnifying glass. if you have a fuel pressure gauge, have a friend make sure it stays at the right pressure and rises at a 1:1 rate under boost. other than that, make sure your setting the base timing the correct way. good luck :thumbup:


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