# Differential questions



## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

hey what month in 87 did they start putting the LSD trannies in? mine was made in 5/87


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

4/87... But I think that was only for the Turbo models.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

♣AsleepZ♣ said:


> 4/87... But I think that was only for the Turbo models.


the LSD? or the turbos were the first to get them? i could always jsut go do a burn-out and see if i lay down 2 tread marks


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

No only Turbos got the LSD. Turbos from 4/87-89 have R200 LSDs. Shiros have a VLSD.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

JAMESZ said:


> No only Turbos got the LSD. Turbos from 4/87-89 have R200 LSDs. Shiros have a VLSD.


so none of the NA's have LSD's?


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

SanMarcosZfreak said:


> so none of the NA's have LSD's?


That is correct.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

JAMESZ said:


> That is correct.


why not? thats dumb. how hard would it be to put the LSD rear end onto an 88 NA from an 88 turbo? is it a direct bolt on?


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SanMarcosZfreak said:


> why not? thats dumb. how hard would it be to put the LSD rear end onto an 88 NA from an 88 turbo? is it a direct bolt on?


 http://z31.com/differential.shtml


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

♣Zen31ZR♣ said:


> http://z31.com/differential.shtml


cool thanks eric now when i get money i can put that on.....i'm noticing a problem with trying to restore a car with no money.......eh oh well when i get money i'll save part and spend the rest on my baby

edit: and dad jsut shot down the LSD install...are there any performance and handling advantages with the LSD compared to the open diff?


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SanMarcosZfreak said:


> cool thanks eric now when i get money i can put that on.....i'm noticing a problem with trying to restore a car with no money.......eh oh well when i get money i'll save part and spend the rest on my baby
> 
> edit: and dad jsut shot down the LSD install...are there any performance and handling advantages with the LSD compared to the open diff?


 Many many times better than an open diff. For starters, it's safer to drive in the rain or snow, since you won't lose traction suddenly just because one wheel starts spinning. Both tires will wear more evenly. It's almost impossible to spin the wheels with an LSD, ask AsleepZ. Though I dunno what tires he has, or really how much power he is making. It makes the car more stable for turning, the regular open diff makes the car very unstable if you put on any power in a corner. I'll put it like this, Open Diff = 1WD. It's like driving 2 motorcycles lashed together and applying power to only one.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

♣Zen31ZR♣ said:


> Many many times better than an open diff. For starters, it's safer to drive in the rain or snow, since you won't lose traction suddenly just because one wheel starts spinning. Both tires will wear more evenly. It's almost impossible to spin the wheels with an LSD, ask AsleepZ. Though I dunno what tires he has, or really how much power he is making. It makes the car more stable for turning, the regular open diff makes the car very unstable if you put on any power in a corner. I'll put it like this, Open Diff = 1WD. It's like driving 2 motorcycles lashed together and applying power to only one.


yeah thats what i thought, he wants a completly stock restore :lame: , i want a complete restore with minimal performance enhancing mods, so i'm putting the LSD on once the car is fully mine, but until then, i'll be driving safe, lol, he came home last night to the plenum cover sitting in the sink, he flipped out, but then i showed him how much cleaner it was and he calmed down, lol


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SanMarcosZfreak said:


> yeah thats what i thought, he wants a completly stock restore :lame: , i want a complete restore with minimal performance enhancing mods, so i'm putting the LSD on once the car is fully mine, but until then, i'll be driving safe, lol, he came home last night to the plenum cover sitting in the sink, he flipped out, but then i showed him how much cleaner it was and he calmed down, lol


Those cars did come stock with an LSD, it was just the _turbo_ models.  I'd say an LSD was a necessary evil.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

♣Zen31ZR♣ said:


> Those cars did come stock with an LSD, it was just the _turbo_ models.  I'd say an LSD was a necessary evil.


LMAO exactly, its stock jsut not for my car. thanks for helping me out eric

edit: when i get another car, prolly a truck (bout 4-5 years from now), the Z will no longer be driven that much, gonna turn it into a show car, gonna rip everything out (the engine area) get it cleaned, polished, etc. get the underbody cleaned repainted, etc. total show car


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

I need to learn how to do 360s now...... Since I got a LSD


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣AsleepZ♣ said:


> I need to learn how to do 360s now...... Since I got a LSD


It is easier with an open differential. But trust me you can spin the tires pretty good with an LSD out back. Heck I'm worried that I am going to need wider tires then 275s out back with the LSD. Traction will still be an issue.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

From what I heard from "Drift Bible" you have a to have a LSD to do tight 360s. I mean go sideways around a circle... I've been thinking of going with a slightly wider tire in the back..

I can only run 225/50/R16's up front (they already rub)

What could I run in the back that's a bit wider.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣AsleepZ♣ said:


> From what I heard from "Drift Bible" you have a to have a LSD to do tight 360s. I mean go sideways around a circle... I've been thinking of going with a slightly wider tire in the back..
> 
> I can only run 225/50/R16's up front (they already rub)
> 
> What could I run in the back that's a bit wider.


I'm running 275s out back and 245s out front. But I also have different wheels and different sidewall ratings.


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

♣Zen31ZR♣ said:


> Many many times better than an open diff. For starters, it's safer to drive in the rain or snow, since you won't lose traction suddenly just because one wheel starts spinning. Both tires will wear more evenly. It's almost impossible to spin the wheels with an LSD, ask AsleepZ. Though I dunno what tires he has, or really how much power he is making. It makes the car more stable for turning, the regular open diff makes the car very unstable if you put on any power in a corner. I'll put it like this, Open Diff = 1WD. It's like driving 2 motorcycles lashed together and applying power to only one.


WHOA!!!!! Dead wrong on everything above. For the following, think as if the diff was welded solid.
- Open diffs actually make it safer. Because as you turn on slick surfaces, you're less likely to spin the rear end around.
- Both tires will wear more evenly? Nope. Tire wear is dependant on alignment, not which tire is driving the car. If you were constantly turning left, a locked diff would cause one tire to wear more than the other since the distance travelled would be different. With a locked diff, unless you are driving perfectly straight, one tire will always be grabbing for more traction.
- Impossible to spin the wheels with an LSD? Huh? Not unless something is screwed up. It's no easier and no harder vs an open diff. A car with enough power to light up both tires with an open diff will have no problems lighting up an LSD.
- More stable for turning? Nope. The opposite actually. Slam the gas on a car that has an open diff and the inside tire is likely to light up and start spinning. But the outside tire will be getting less power now and still has it's traction. Because it still has traction, the tire will remain going in the direction of the tread. With a locked diff, slam the gas and both tires will spin. Since they both lost traction, there is nothing keeping them from going in the direction of the tread. Actually, they keep going in the direction there were pointed. But since the front of the car is now not in line with them, they're going to go to the outside of the corner.
- Open Diff = 1WD. Nothing could be further from the truth. Both wheels still drive the car.

Disadvantages of open diffs: When one wheel looses traction completely, the amount of torque applied to that wheel greatly increases. But virtually none gets applied to the wheel with traction. Which means you're going nowhere fast. When you get stuck with an open diff, it isn't because your car is 1 wheel drive. It's because one tire has too much traction and there is not enough torque applied to the tire with traction to move the car.

Advantages of Locked diffs: Both wheels ALWAYS have the same amount of torque.

When is this useful? When driving in a straight line or you are stuck. Drag racing, offroading, drifting, etc.

More:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Unless I spray the tires with soap and make it easier for her. My car will not do it. Yeah I could try taking it up to 6K and dropping it but I'm pretty sure either my universal joints would shatter or it would take off just locking up the front tires and pushing it. I've got Bridgestone Fuzions 225/50/R16s and they got pretty damn good grip. And I'll be damned if I've ever got more than 2 revolutions trying to light them up on dry pavement of all types

Asphault, Concrete , (Gravel Well that's no problem)

Now it may seem I'm complaining but I'm not. I never get more than a chirp taking off. But she'll churp them on up into 3rd gear


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## z31 (Oct 19, 2004)

I have VLSD and 245s, I have no problems spinning the tires. That's with only 200 wheel hp. Yoko ES100s, Kumho V700 or Hoosier race tires, doesn't matter.

In very tight corners (like autoX tight) an LSD will cause a push, but I'll typically steer with the throttle at that point if need be.

Another local autoXer has an 84 NA 2+2 w/ a turbo LSD in it. He has no problems spinning the rear tires either. He's at about 170 wheel hp.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

z31 said:


> I have VLSD and 245s, I have no problems spinning the tires. That's with only 200 wheel hp. Yoko ES100s, Kumho V700 or Hoosier race tires, doesn't matter.
> 
> In very tight corners (like autoX tight) an LSD will cause a push, but I'll typically steer with the throttle at that point if need be.
> 
> Another local autoXer has an 84 NA 2+2 w/ a turbo LSD in it. He has no problems spinning the rear tires either. He's at about 170 wheel hp.


 The VLSD is notoriously slow to react, you may be only spinning one tire, at least for a second or 2. One reason I want to get a clutch LSD, faster reaction...... AsleepZ has a clutch LSD and has problems spinning his tires. I have no way of testing these theories myself, with my open diff, but hopefully that will change soon. At this point all I can say for sure is that tire grip and asphalt stickiness probably has a lot to do with all of your experiences with slippage.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣Zen31ZR♣ said:


> The VLSD is notoriously slow to react, you may be only spinning one tire, at least for a second or 2. One reason I want to get a clutch LSD, faster reaction...... AsleepZ has a clutch LSD and has problems spinning his tires. I have no way of testing these theories myself, with my open diff, but hopefully that will change soon. At this point all I can say for sure is that tire grip and asphalt stickiness probably has a lot to do with all of your experiences with slippage.


Something is seriously wrong with his car if he can't spin the tires. Even with the LSD he should be able to light them up with ease.

Then again he can't even drive yet so maybe he doesn't know how to rev it up and drop the clutch or even slip it to get them to spin. He could just be dropping the clutch and then trying to floor it...


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Something is seriously wrong with his car if he can't spin the tires. Even with the LSD he should be able to light them up with ease.
> 
> Then again he can't even drive yet so maybe he doesn't know how to rev it up and drop the clutch or even slip it to get them to spin. He could just be dropping the clutch and then trying to floor it...


 I remember my old 97 Z28 wouldn't spin either unless you did it a certain way. Redline, let the clutch out barely to the engagement point, and pop it out quickly. Any other way, the car would just take off and throw you in the back seat. Same with my Trans-Am and my 89 IROC..... Of course, he could always sidestep the clutch at like 4000 rpm, but that would probably smoke his driveshaft, like he said. Could also be his sorry clutch, he's been having problems with that don't forget. And the clutch damper probably has a lot to do with it.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Well like I've said I can get them to spin but soon after it'll either push the car with the front tires locked up or just take off.... (By the way I have brake problems no rears and my fronts are crappy.) 

New/Rebuilt Calipers and rotors are soon to come (after the clutch of course) Which I finally have 310 dollars for. So I'll be buying it right after I buy my front apron.

Scratch that I just ordered the ACT clutch 290 bucks


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

AZ-ZBum said:


> WHOA!!!!! Dead wrong on everything above. For the following, think as if the diff was welded solid.
> 
> Why a solid diff. An LSD diff isn't solid
> - Open diffs actually make it safer. Because as you turn on slick surfaces, you're less likely to spin the rear end around.
> ...


 Lets try this discussion again


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## das280zx (Jul 17, 2003)

good luck finding a turbo z31 clutch diff. They fit in first and second gen z's too, and everybody is on the lookout for one. If you do find one, chances are somebody will want a lot of dough for it. Maybe save your money for a quaife, they are better anyhow.


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

well since i don't plan on any heavy if any performance mods (you guys convinced me of the pointlessness) i think i'll jsut stick with my stock rear, eventually, she'll be a show car (restoration category)


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

SanMarcosZfreak said:


> well since i don't plan on any heavy if any performance mods (you guys convinced me of the pointlessness) i think i'll jsut stick with my stock rear, eventually, she'll be a show car (restoration category)


You can have my LSD for 6 grand.........


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

♣AsleepZ♣ said:


> You can have my LSD for 6 grand.........


i wish i had 6k, lol, and if i did, the car would be repainted, engine removed and cleaned/polished(by my own hand), engine bay cleaned/repainted, dents removed, new windshield, new rear side windows, new exhaust, electric fan, etc.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

das280zx said:


> good luck finding a turbo z31 clutch diff. They fit in first and second gen z's too, and everybody is on the lookout for one. If you do find one, chances are somebody will want a lot of dough for it. Maybe save your money for a quaife, they are better anyhow.


 The Z32 has an R230 diff. They will not fit in a Z31 without modifications, not will a Z31 diff fit in a Z32 without modification. Nor am I sure why you'd want to. A Quaife is way too expensive unless you plan on spending a _lot_ of track time. My plans for now only include my car being a dragster, so for now a stock clutch type is all I need. A stock clutch type is all most of us would need.


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## das280zx (Jul 17, 2003)

♣Zen31ZR♣ said:


> The Z32 has an R230 diff. They will not fit in a Z31 without modifications, not will a Z31 diff fit in a Z32 without modification. Nor am I sure why you'd want to. A Quaife is way too expensive unless you plan on spending a _lot_ of track time. My plans for now only include my car being a dragster, so for now a stock clutch type is all I need. A stock clutch type is all most of us would need.


no, man you don't get what I am saying. First and second gen z people, that is 240z-280zx people, all want the z31 clutch type diff because it fits with little to no mods in the zx, and a few more mods in the z. People scour junkyards for these, so chances are if you find an 87-89 turbo (which are kinda rare anyhow), you won't find a diff in it as it will have been stripped already. You are right, a quaife is way expensive, but oh so cool!!


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## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

das280zx said:


> no, man you don't get what I am saying. First and second gen z people, that is 240z-280zx people, all want the z31 clutch type diff because it fits with little to no mods in the zx, and a few more mods in the z. People scour junkyards for these, so chances are if you find an 87-89 turbo (which are kinda rare anyhow), you won't find a diff in it as it will have been stripped already. You are right, a quaife is way expensive, but oh so cool!!


not to be rude but technically the only Z model that has a first and second generation are the 300's, because the 240's, 260's, and 280's are different cars

(correct if i'm wrong, but thats what i know and or have heard)


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

SanMarcosZfreak said:


> not to be rude but technically the only Z model that has a first and second generation are the 300's, because the 240's, 260's, and 280's are different cars
> 
> (correct if i'm wrong, but thats what i know and or have heard)


Every Z model is a different generation. It all goes by chasis code.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

das280zx said:


> no, man you don't get what I am saying. First and second gen z people, that is 240z-280zx people, all want the z31 clutch type diff because it fits with little to no mods in the zx, and a few more mods in the z. People scour junkyards for these, so chances are if you find an 87-89 turbo (which are kinda rare anyhow), you won't find a diff in it as it will have been stripped already. You are right, a quaife is way expensive, but oh so cool!!


Technically there are 5 gens of the Z. The 240Z, 260Z, 280Z(early), 280ZX(later), 1st gen 300, 2nd gen 300. The R200 diff wasn't available til the mid 70s, as I recall (somebody wanna confirm that?), so the 240Z didn't have it. Had the 160/180 diff, I think. 

It's not hard to get an LSD diff insert for the R200, Motorsport auto sells one, so does KAAZ, Cusco, Quaife........ It's just the money involved. I can still find 87-89 LSD diffs on Ebay for less than $500, or JDM Silvia/180SX units, but you must remember there were 2 different sizes of R200.


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## das280zx (Jul 17, 2003)

the r200 can slip into any s30(240, 260, 280) or any s130(280zx). That is why all those guys want the z31 diff too. I didn't know that kaaz or cusco diffs worked with the long nose (older type) r200. If so, that is cool, as it is another option. You are right, the old z31 diffs are cheaper. I don't see too many of them around though. I did a search on car-part.com (check it out if you have never been there). None came up. Sometimes I see them there, but junkyards seem to know what they are worth. Sometimes you can find mom and pop(is there such a thing?) po-dunk junkyards that don't know what they've got, or don't care and will let you have it cheap!


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

das280zx said:


> the r200 can slip into any s30(240, 260, 280) or any s130(280zx). That is why all those guys want the z31 diff too. I didn't know that kaaz or cusco diffs worked with the long nose (older type) r200. If so, that is cool, as it is another option. You are right, the old z31 diffs are cheaper. I don't see too many of them around though. I did a search on car-part.com (check it out if you have never been there). None came up. Sometimes I see them there, but junkyards seem to know what they are worth. Sometimes you can find mom and pop(is there such a thing?) po-dunk junkyards that don't know what they've got, or don't care and will let you have it cheap!


 Yeah I'm in carpart.com all the time. Lotta non-turbo diffs in there. Also was one said i twas for a V6 turbo..... gotta look under differential carrier/87/w\o turbo....
Sometimes these yards also have no clue wtf they have, even if you slapped them across the head with it. It's always best to call and ask if it's LSD or not. Some places I've found don't know how to tell, even.....


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## Marc Z31 (Jul 25, 2004)

AZ-ZBum said:


> WHOA!!!!! Dead wrong on everything above. For the following, think as if the diff was welded solid.
> - Open diffs actually make it safer. Because as you turn on slick surfaces, you're less likely to spin the rear end around.
> - Both tires will wear more evenly? Nope. Tire wear is dependant on alignment, not which tire is driving the car. If you were constantly turning left, a locked diff would cause one tire to wear more than the other since the distance travelled would be different. With a locked diff, unless you are driving perfectly straight, one tire will always be grabbing for more traction.
> - Impossible to spin the wheels with an LSD? Huh? Not unless something is screwed up. It's no easier and no harder vs an open diff. A car with enough power to light up both tires with an open diff will have no problems lighting up an LSD.
> ...


He's not talking about a locked diff, he's talking about a limited slip diff. 

an LSD diff WILL give you better traction around a corner, as you can apply a greater amount of power before tires start spinning. An open diff will be more predictable, as the ass end will slide the same way every time you lose traction in a straight line, where as an LSD can go either way.

open diff is good for low HP cars, ands bad drivers (less power loss due to friction, and more predictable)

LSD is good for performance in every way. I have an open diff, and lose traction in third gear, and squeel in to 4th. I have 245 ZR rated tires.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Marc Z31 said:


> He's not talking about a locked diff, he's talking about a limited slip diff.
> 
> an LSD diff WILL give you better traction around a corner, as you can apply a greater amount of power before tires start spinning. An open diff will be more predictable, as the ass end will slide the same way every time you lose traction in a straight line, where as an LSD can go either way.
> 
> ...


 YEah , mine always slides out to the right. I guess that's what you mean by predictable. Doesn't make it any less annoying, though. With an LSD diff, at least in my opinion, the slide can be controlled better. My car, once I start the slide it seems to be impossible to stop it.......


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## turboZX (Sep 14, 2004)

i dont know whats up the one guys car.. the 87 turbo but i can easily lay posi's with mine and do a nice tight like 360 on asphalt... yesterday i got bored and layed some marks in 2nd gear around 140 -150ft long in front of the house... i'm finishin the tires i got on back.. there gone


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## hondakillerZX (Aug 16, 2004)

quick question . do all the 87 turbo's have an LSD.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

hondakillerZX said:


> quick question . do all the 87 turbo's have an LSD.


If it was made 4/87 and after then yes.


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## das280zx (Jul 17, 2003)

this thread got me thinking, and I did some research. From what I found, there are alot of different r200's out there. Z31's and all older z's use the long nose one, and 240sx's, and z32 non turbos use the short nose ones. The internals of these two diffs are very similar, maybe even the same on some cars. Alot of the older diffs use 10mm bolts on the ring gear, and most aftermarket lsd's are for the newer r200's which use 12mm bolts. I guess the problem can be overcome by using some sort of spacer such as small pieces of pipe cut to size to make up the difference on the ring bolts. If you could do this, you could theoretically use any aftermaket diff in any z with an r200. I think it would be better to get a KAAZ diff, that probably comes with a warranty than to spend 400 bucks or so for an old z31 clutch diff that may or may not be in good condition. KAAZ diffs are about 800 bucks, although I have heard you can get them cheaper sometimes. Well just something to think about.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

It isn't nearly as easy as you are thinking. Guys do the swap all the time on S30s and S130s. There are a ton of write ups out there. Z32NA doesn't use the R200.


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## das280zx (Jul 17, 2003)

z32 n/a use the R200V, which is the viscous coupling vlsd. At least they did in '94 which is the manual I have. Turbos used the r230. Infiniti M30's also used an r200. It is the long nose type. I have heard it is a viscous diff, but am not sure about that. The J30 used a viscous diff, probably similar to the 240sx viscous unit.


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