# 2005 Pathfinder: Owner & tow test



## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

Hey everyone. I just took delivery of a 05 Pathfinder SE. Fully loaded , but minus the leather and dvd console setup.
I have about 200 miles on her. One of my main about purchasing this SUV is will it really pull up to 6000 lbs? I traded in my 03 Tahoe w/ the 4.8L V8 which is rated at 270hp and 7000lbs towing. So I was like ok, this Pathfinder will do it but not as good. eeeekkkk!!

Well first thing this morning I had to go to my local trailer shop to get a 5 prong trailer wiring hooked up. The one that came on the Pathfinder was a 4 prong. At about noon time, I headed out to our boat storage, backed the Pathfinder to my 2004 FourWinns 194 Funship Deck boat. This is no small boat. I figure that the weight of the boat was :
Boat w/ motor 3600 lbs
Trailer: 960 lbs
Gas/ 50 gallon: 416 lbs ( 1 gallon= 8.328 lbs)
Water / 12 gallon: 99 lbs

Grand total weight is: 5075 lbs or very close. I did have a full tank of gas and water along with the tow test. I was told that fuel weighs less then water and these are math factors from weight of water per gallon, so it might be a little less but nothing to fight over.

Keep in mind I am not including weight on boat gear like tools, water sports gear, food, ice chest or anything like that.

But I hooked the boat up and the boat did weight down the rear end of the pathfinder some, but so did my Tahoe. So what!! It never bottomed out or anything during the ride.

Off I go. I was very amazed everyone!!! After about a 15 mile run down into the Texas Hill Country and Highway this Pathfinder did awesome. Highway running was quick and never lost speed. When I accelerated the gas pedal it would want to go even faster! I fell that there was really no loss in speed up hills as I expected. This SUV being a V6 has really shocked me what it really can compete against! I felt that my Tahoe accelerated a lot slower and shift from the Tahoe always had a clunky shift point in its weak tranny. The Tahoe took some time to get over 40mph versus the pathfinder getting there quicker!!! But hey that is Chevy for you. 
So if I compare apple & oranges from my new 05 Pathfinder V6 vs my previous 03 Tahoe V8,, I prefer my Pathfinder to tow my boat. I now can get it to the lake faster! hahahaha. 
Nissan did an awesome job w/ the pathfinders ability to do it all. The only thing I feel that the Pathfinder is not all up to was the room/size area (inside). It felt smaller, but I was aware of that since I was down sizing when I step off from our Tahoe.
I just wanted to say thank you Nissan for an awesome product and our family will be very happy with our purchase as years to come. :hal: 

God Bless and thanks for looking everyone! 

















:hal:


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

Forgot to mention, my trailer does have brakes on it. So stoping was no problem. :crazy:


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## blitZ (Oct 7, 2004)

I hear ya brother, get similar results with my 01. The beast in a small package.


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## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

shift_ said:


> ...But I hooked the boat up and the boat did weight down the rear end of the pathfinder some...


...and looking at the pictures, it appears the trailer may not be set up quite right. 5% to 15% of 5100 = 255lbs. to 765lbs. Keeping it toward the lower end (around 300 lbs) should level your ride.


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## blitZ (Oct 7, 2004)

I added Air Lifts to my rear coils to level my trailer when towing. They are fairly inexpensive $80 or so and have held up for 4 years so far. You can see a few pics of them in the link below.


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

blitZ said:


> I added Air Lifts to my rear coils to level my trailer when towing. They are fairly inexpensive $80 or so and have held up for 4 years so far. You can see a few pics of them in the link below.



The rear suspension is a little soft. It is normal to get some sag. This trailer has a long neck as you see. From the boat and Pathfinder, it is still level, I might just need also a lower drop hitch to even out along with air lifts. No biggie at this time. I just wanted to put a review out there for fellow owners that own a "05" PathY that would worry if it would not tow the big toys out there. So no need to worry. I done it.
:thumbup:


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## Kojo62 (Dec 26, 2004)

It's great to get some real-world feedback on towing with the new Pathy. Thanks for taking the time to post your review.


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## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

shift_ said:


> The rear suspension is a little soft. It is normal to get some sag. This trailer has a long neck as you see. From the boat and Pathfinder, it is still level, I might just need also a lower drop hitch to even out along with air lifts. No biggie at this time. I just wanted to put a review out there for fellow owners that own a "05" PathY that would worry if it would not tow the big toys out there. So no need to worry. I done it.
> :thumbup:


Thanks for the review. I didn't mean to sound critical, if I did. Most folks expect the marine dealer to deliver a rig already set up and a lot (most?) of dealers don't take the time or have anyone capable of balancing a trailer. In the pictures, it looked like the tongue was bowing, but I guess that is just an illusion.
A drop hitch sounds like a good idea. Upgrading from Rancho RS5000's (assuming that is what you currently have) to 9000's may help. I put 5000s on my '92, but wished I had done a little more reading 'cause I would have spent twice as much for the 9000s.


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

Animal said:


> Thanks for the review. I didn't mean to sound critical, if I did. Most folks expect the marine dealer to deliver a rig already set up and a lot (most?) of dealers don't take the time or have anyone capable of balancing a trailer. In the pictures, it looked like the tongue was bowing, but I guess that is just an illusion.
> A drop hitch sounds like a good idea. Upgrading from Rancho RS5000's (assuming that is what you currently have) to 9000's may help. I put 5000s on my '92, but wished I had done a little more reading 'cause I would have spent twice as much for the 9000s.


Oh, no not at all. I am glad to be of assistant to help others that are considering ever-towing that this PUP can do it. Enjoy these new design Pathy's. They are nice rigs will a very nice setup and design. I am glad that I own one.
Don't regret leaving the Tahoe.


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

Guys, I know I posted a review about my boat in tow and said it did great. "BUT" I want to warn you about something else. I never tested the boat ramp tow.

Let me tell you my story:


As you know, I put in a nice report about my new 05 Pathfinder SE pulling my boat. Well yes it does to great.
about 1 week ago,,,,, it was put to it's real test. The boat versus The Pathfinder. What do I mean?

Well My cousin, son and I strap down the FourWinns boat to our Pathy and off we go. Up and down the hill country. Wow what a great job!!!

As we get to the Boat Ramp which was wet, like any other day. We prepared to back down the FourWinns down the ramp. As I first notice,,, boat was taking my Pathy down the ramp. Luckly I hit the brakes the Pathy skids about 1' or so and finally stops half way down the ramp. I slowly go a little further down. The boat again feels like it's taking my Pathfinder down. I locked the brakes again. 

Let me just say one thing. You know when you have a feeling that you don't have a good feeling about somethingt? Well I did at this moment. I had the boat trailer rear tires about half way in water and I was not feeling comfortable about this. So I wuss out!!! 

I put the Pathfinder in 1st gear. Accelerated slowly foward the ramp like I would in my old Tahoe suv and the Pathfinder was spinning its tires. The tires gradually stared to move the FourWinns back up. A littl bit of fish tailing and a small audience watching as if this is the last game of the NBA championship. The tires smoking like crazy, my foot on the pedal easy, not WOT.
As person walked up to my window and said do I have 4x4, I locked my brakes and I said "No I sure don't". As I stop the pathfinder (applying the brakes) and saying NOPE, no 4x4" to the gentlemen, I felt the FourWinns taking me down the ramp again. I hit the gas pedal again, and It started to get its traction. I finally made it out after about a 2 minute spin off/smoke out. Some sweat on my forehead, I felt like I just got done running the marathon. Boy that was scary.
======
I was thinking my SUV was to light. Nope,, not the problem. After a conclusion and tested at anotherr boat ramp with the same results. All the time it was the BFGoodrich Rugged Trail tires on my PF SE.
Guys I read some reviews and take it from me. These are dangerous tires in wet road conditions. 
The reason why I know its the tires is b/c at the other (2nd) boat ramp the incline was like 20 degree and even when I was just backing just the TRAILER to retreive the boat I was sliding down the ramp the same distance.
So I read some reviews , complain the BFG and they were willing to buy my tires back @ 50% of the MSRP price which is about $60.00 each. To each and one of you that own these BFGoodrich Rugged Trail tires, please please be very very carefull in rain or snow conditions. Here are some reviews for your judgement before it is to late.

http://www.1010tires.com/BFGoodrich_Rugged_Trail_TA_tires.html

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...RUGTTAOWL&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes

As for me. I decided to keep the BFGs to be put back on at the end of my lease term. I did get new replacement tires which are the Yokohama Geolandar H/T-S. Let me tell you. WOW. No more sliding down the boat ramp. If you do keep these BFGs to all , please be super safe while you have your family with you.


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## generic (Apr 30, 2005)

shift_ said:


> All the time it was the BFGoodrich Rugged Trail tires on my PF SE.


I thought the rugged trails only came on the SE OR, the long trails come on non-OR SEs, right?

From NissanUSA
P265/70R16 BFGoodrich® Long Trail OWL tires 
listed for SE


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

generic said:


> I thought the rugged trails only came on the SE OR, the long trails come on non-OR SEs, right?
> 
> From NissanUSA
> P265/70R16 BFGoodrich® Long Trail OWL tires
> listed for SE



LoL. PF= Pathfinder. Yes the Rugged BFGs on the SE's That is what I have. 

I do not think mine is a OR edition. I know for sure mine is a SE though and it does have the Rugged BFGs


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## generic (Apr 30, 2005)

shift_ said:


> LoL. PF= Pathfinder.


Yeah I got that part. It was more a question around how did you get the rugged trails on a regular SE. Nissan must be doing things in different parts of the country. 

I was only persisting because I was wondering if the 60/tire was for the rugged Trail or long trail. I'm contemplating trading my rugged trails in now before I get too many miles on them.


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

generic said:


> Yeah I got that part. It was more a question around how did you get the rugged trails on a regular SE. Nissan must be doing things in different parts of the country.
> 
> I was only persisting because I was wondering if the 60/tire was for the rugged Trail or long trail. I'm contemplating trading my rugged trails in now before I get too many miles on them.


Well from the reviews the Longtrails are better tires then the Rugged. So if you got the longtrails be happy. I know I am not w/ the Rugged'z


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## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

As I was reading your account of launching, I was thinking, "sounds like lack of tire traction. Wonder what tire come on Pathfinders theese days?" Then you answered that question. Thanks.
I put Yokohamas Geolander A/T +II on my '92 this year. Previously, I had Michelin Cross Terrains, which were a bit better on wet roads and ramps, but were worthless in the mud - I learned this the hard way. Over all, I am very satisfied with the Yokos and they were priced such that they were worth trying.

As a side note, a trick that works well with most tires (for low speeds only) on slippery surfaces is to reduce the air pressure. This puts more tread on the road, thus more traction. But, you'll want to reinflate them before you head out on the highway or prepare yourself for a possible blowout due to the added friction causing the tires to over heat - I did that too, after getting a slow leak from a large screw on the Ohio Turnpike years ago (not fun).


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

Animal said:


> .
> 
> As a side note, a trick that works well with most tires (for low speeds only) on slippery surfaces is to reduce the air pressure. This puts more tread on the road, thus more traction. But, you'll want to reinflate them before you head out on the highway or prepare yourself for a possible blowout due to the added friction causing the tires to over heat - I did that too, after getting a slow leak from a large screw on the Ohio Turnpike years ago (not fun).



Animal, I was told to try this before I did get new tires. Either way I had to buy new tires since this rig is on a lease and will need new tires given back on them at the end of term.

But as for PSI on the boat ramp. What PSI do you think I should have the rear tires at when backing down the wet OL boat ramp?

Thanks :cheers:


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## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

shift_ said:


> Animal, I was told to try this before I did get new tires. Either way I had to buy new tires since this rig is on a lease and will need new tires given back on them at the end of term.
> 
> But as for PSI on the boat ramp. What PSI do you think I should have the rear tires at when backing down the wet OL boat ramp?
> 
> Thanks :cheers:


I wouldn't go any lower than necessay as you'll need to reinflate them before going back out on the road. If you have new tires that work without deflating, then don't bother. If you still need more traction try around 15 psi (I've heard somewhere as low as 5, but I'd never run a tire that low on purpose), or do it by looks, as I would. You don't want the rim so close to the ground that it could be damaged going over a lip in the pavement.


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

Results are in:

As you guys know. I went on ahead and replaced both my rear tires w/ some Geolander HT/S.
I picked up the boat from storage and headed out to the boat ramp.

(keep in mind I invited my dad since he been towing all his life and also to spot me if I need some help.  ).

-But as I backed down the ramp (it was not even wet) slowly and applying the brakes some. My front brakes locked up. Started to slide a little. The back tires were not skidding down. I went on ahead and decline down. I put "Dipped the boat into the water and slowly climb up. The rear tires in full traction, no skidding (boat ramp still dry).

As I apply the boat back and forth into the water attempting to get the boat ramp fully wet. As it did.
Now the test.
Front tires as always whicha re the BFG rugged trails skidding down. I go down the ramp. rear tires getting very wet. I put tranny into Gear 1. Accelerated slowly. rear traction retracting to the wetness, tires started to spin. No where near as bad as the BFGs did in the rear. Did get up faster.
Keep in mind I was the only one in the SUV.

Overall.. I am still not getting the safe traction I want. 

My dad says that we know the boat is heavier then the PathY, but since the rear end does sag..... my dad recommended maybe to get a "weight distribution hitch" to level out my rear suspension from the boat and trailer. Yes the rear sags and the front end is lifted up some.

I am not sure if this is the solution. I think the pathy can't get the job done. 

I am feeling I had made a big mistake falling in the Nissan specs and lossing the entertainment days of our boating for the next 3 years, which is how long our lease is up in. Tomorrow I have to go down to the dealership where I got it to pick up my license plates, but I plan to talk to the sales manager to see if we can make some arrangements to have me get out of this Pathy and into an Armada.
I am sadden to see that this has been truely a sadden mistake I done on my behalf. Now I have a new, very expensive boat that we cannot take out since out official new tow vehicle is not going to make it happen. I must say the wife is very pissed on this whole issue also. 



-But I really do like the performance of the V6 & Pathy over-all w/o the boat @ the wet boat ramp.  
The Pathy is a quick SOB!


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## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

That's too bad. I know hind sight is no conselation. Shifting some of the weight forward may help in preventing the front brakes from locking as you back down, but it will likely make the rear spin more pulling it out.

Out of curiosity, did you try lower tire pressure? Do you have an LSD? You could also try 2nd instead of 1st gear to reduce the amount of torque to the wheels.

If your request to the dealer yields no results, and you are up to another experiement, I'd suggest searching for "the best" rain tire you can find, and maybe something with a little more tread width.


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

Animal said:


> That's too bad. I know hind sight is no conselation. Shifting some of the weight forward may help in preventing the front brakes from locking as you back down, but it will likely make the rear spin more pulling it out.
> 
> Out of curiosity, did you try lower tire pressure? Do you have an LSD? You could also try 2nd instead of 1st gear to reduce the amount of torque to the wheels.
> 
> If your request to the dealer yields no results, and you are up to another experiement, I'd suggest searching for "the best" rain tire you can find, and maybe something with a little more tread width.


 
Thanks Animal. 
The PSI I had was @ 30 psi. Both rears tires were spinning  
It was no way near as bad as my BFGs were as for wet traction. The Geolanders are for sure way better by a huge margin. It's just still not happy w/ these results. I think the PathY wheel base/size of it , is what is killing this towing package. All in all, if they refuse to take the Pathy in for trade, I might sell my ACURA TL and get like a older expedition or something full size and cost less then 10K. I do have a friend that says he will offer his GMC Denali to do the job, but that means they will have to come every time on the lake. Its very kind of them, but like-wise I enjoy boating w/ the family and *just* w/ the family. Hey its the only way to relax out in the middle of the lake and watch the kids play in the water where there is no smog, traffic or other people to fusterate you.  
You have a boat. you know what I mean.


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## generic (Apr 30, 2005)

Try this good ideas
http://boards.trailerboats.com/cgi-bin/trailerboats/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001274


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## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

generic said:


> Try this good ideas
> http://boards.trailerboats.com/cgi-bin/trailerboats/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001274


Several good suggestions there: 
1) easy on the throttle; spinning tires have less traction, let up on the gas to regain traction.
2) traction mats; good one I hadn't thought about.
3) reduce tire pressure; 30 psi seems a bit high (what is recommended?). You could drop 10 psi in the rear for launching and loading.

Also, with posi or LSD (which I assume you have as both rear tires spin) wider tires, as I earlier suggested, may actually have a negative effect.


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## generic (Apr 30, 2005)

Animal said:


> 3) reduce tire pressure; 30 psi seems a bit high (what is recommended?). You could drop 10 psi in the rear for launching and loading.
> 
> Also, with posi or LSD (which I assume you have as both rear tires spin) wider tires, as I earlier suggested, may actually have a negative effect.


Going down to 15 would probably be fine as well, just toss a little electric compressor in back and fill'em up for you leave the parking lot.

The 05 has ABLS.. fake limited slip. The computer figures out which wheels to stop from spinning. 

If you really want to put down power slowly and steadily try turning the VDC off(switch on center console), that should kill ABLS (FWIW 4X2 ABLS is only on the rear two wheels). My WAG is that the ABLS is confused and may be breaking the wheels even if they slip a little. This will stop your forward momentum and keep you will keep spinning.


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## kkerley33 (Jun 26, 2005)

Shift,

How long is your FourWinns. I have an 05 SE-OR and pulling a 1988 22.5 FourWinns V8. I know its a heavy boat b/c it hits the limit on the shorestation lift.

I put it in with no problem, and I went with the Pathy because I used to use my dads 03 Xterra or my old 98 Yukon to do the job.

I Am using a hitch with a 2" drop, same as I used on the Yukon. My dad runs a .25" lift on the Xterra. He is the only one who experiences slip and usually only when pulling the boat out. (His Xterra is 4X2) both the Pathy and Yukon are 4X4


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

Animal said:


> Also, with posi or LSD (which I assume you have as both rear tires spin) wider tires, as I earlier suggested, may actually have a negative effect.


Oh my.. now I figured it out  .

I called Nissan parts dept and asked about the new 05's if they do come w/ LSD.
Guess what? From the parts guy @ Nissan and him looking at the specs on the rear axel. The new PATHYs do not have LSD from what he saw.

I was wondering why just my right rear tire was only spinning and smoking tires. WTF nissan? They want to put a tow package on it, but not do it correct w/ 2wd axel. dammit!!


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

generic said:


> Going down to 15 would probably be fine as well, just toss a little electric compressor in back and fill'em up for you leave the parking lot.
> 
> The 05 has ABLS.. fake limited slip. The computer figures out which wheels to stop from spinning.
> 
> If you really want to put down power slowly and steadily try turning the VDC off(switch on center console), that should kill ABLS (FWIW 4X2 ABLS is only on the rear two wheels). My WAG is that the ABLS is confused and may be breaking the wheels even if they slip a little. This will stop your forward momentum and keep you will keep spinning.


Yes, if you engage that, you will feel like the SUV tranny is slipping. It has to be turned off to be towing. I tried. No good. There is no LSD on the 05 pathys


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

kkerley33 said:


> Shift,
> 
> How long is your FourWinns. I have an 05 SE-OR and pulling a 1988 22.5 FourWinns V8. I know its a heavy boat b/c it hits the limit on the shorestation lift.
> 
> ...



HI my Fourwinns is a 22" er also. Its a heavy SOB. You should not have prob b/c you have 4x4. I only have 2wd and now to find out no LSD on the rear end. This is bad and a big no, no when towing.

N-E ways even when I just backing down the ramp, and when I apply the brakes I start sliding, like I am loosing a tug-a-war match. scary. I plan to go on ahead and add the 2- geolander HT/S tires to the front, which may can no skidding downt he boat ramp. 

-As for the others, I will try it again. Drop the air pressure to 15 psi and see how it performs. VDC -off of course.


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## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

shift_ said:


> HI my Fourwinns is a 22" er also. Its a heavy SOB. You should not have prob b/c you have 4x4. I only have 2wd and now to find out no LSD on the rear end. This is bad and a big no, no when towing.
> 
> N-E ways even when I just backing down the ramp, and when I apply the brakes I start sliding, like I am loosing a tug-a-war match. scary. I plan to go on ahead and add the 2- geolander HT/S tires to the front, which may can no skidding downt he boat ramp.
> 
> -As for the others, I will try it again. Drop the air pressure to 15 psi and see how it performs. VDC -off of course.


You should probably consider the traction mats as well. With 2wd, non-LSD, either tire on a wet, slippery (algae?) surface will mean 0 traction until you burn through it. Drive like you are on ice and try not to spin the tires - though you may not have much experience with ice in your area - I tell folks visiting our region during winter to pretend they are driving on egg shells and don't want to break them - nice and easy.


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

Animal said:


> You should probably consider the traction mats as well. With 2wd, non-LSD, either tire on a wet, slippery (algae?) surface will mean 0 traction until you burn through it. Drive like you are on ice and try not to spin the tires - though you may not have much experience with ice in your area - I tell folks visiting our region during winter to pretend they are driving on egg shells and don't want to break them - nice and easy.



Thanks animal. I will see where I can get traction mats at. Any idea where? lol

As for nasty conditions. I used to live in Colorado 9 years of my life. I do miss the snow. weeeeeeee :cheers:


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## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

shift_ said:


> Thanks animal. I will see where I can get traction mats at. Any idea where? lol
> 
> As for nasty conditions. I used to live in Colorado 9 years of my life. I do miss the snow. weeeeeeee :cheers:


Here's the first Google on marine traction mats. I'd look for something long enough to get you moving.

Yeah, winters are fun with 4wd if you remember that braking doesn't improve over 2wd - but I've never cared much for using the brakes. :woowoo:


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## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

These are cheaper. :cheers:


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## shift_ (Jun 12, 2005)

Animal said:


> These are cheaper. :cheers:



Thanks Animal.

I finally called it quits!! We plan to use our PathY for family vacations. already, not even a month put over 1200 miles. I have to keep @ the 1200 miles per month, b/c that way I can make sure I do not exceed over the 45000 mile mark in 3 years from my lease agreement.

After conclusion w/ other fellow boaters. We think that that short wheel base of the Pathy and the weight of my boat is just too much for it.

So I decided to get a new,, well used truck to our addition.

Here she is: 20001 GMC Z71. Pulled my boat out like it was not there on 4th of July.


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## Animal (Mar 25, 2005)

shift_ said:


> Here she is: 20001 GMC Z71. Pulled my boat out like it was not there on 4th of July. ]


The PU will probably come in handy for other things as well, like trips to the lumber yard or hauling other cargo too bulky for the Pathy. :thumbup:


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## Jason92Classic (Mar 16, 2004)

shift_ said:


> Here she is: 20001 GMC Z71. Pulled my boat out like it was not there...


Wow! That's State of the Art!!! <jk>


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## AMR40509 (May 29, 2006)

I know I'm bringing this thread back from the dead -- but wanted to share a couple of tips that may help others. 

As far as dragging the truck back into the water on the ramp -- this is fairly normal if you panic and slam on the brakes. Normally your front brakes work harder, on a ramp in reverse w/ a load, your traction is on the rear so your front will lock easier. Once the boat floats in the water, the weight will be reduced behind you, and you should stop sliding.

For pulling the boat out, if you don't have 4x4, set the parking brake a couple of clicks, this will keep the non-LSD rear end from slipping as easily. Almost like a poor man's rear limited slip that works great for a short trip up the ramp -- when you hit the dry pavement release the brake. 

I pull a 22" deck boat and have yet to have any ramp problems w/ my 4x4 Pathfinder using the General Grabber stock tires. I always launch the boat in 2wd, then after I back to the bottom of the ramp to pick up the boat at the end of the day, hit 4x4 Low for the effortless trip up the ramp.


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## dirtdog (Jun 20, 2006)

Thanks all good reads here


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## tony22r (Oct 5, 2004)

This thread's been quite educational.
Thanks to all for sharing.


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## dirtdog (Jun 20, 2006)

I have the 4x4 so I would not expect such problems

I live in NE Ohio and with the snow and ice 4x4 is almost a necessity


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