# Gas prices



## poruchik_r (Jun 1, 2005)

Hey guys. I know this topic is not really connected to X-Trail in particular, but i just wanted to let my frustration out. $1,34.9 in Toronto for a littre of regular gas. C'mon.....  
What do you think we can do about it? Or we have to shut up and take it?


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## Rockford (Jan 28, 2005)

What can we do about it? Nothing really. We all get the emails about not buying gas on a particular day as a boycott. What the hell's that supposed to accomplish? We all just have to cave and buy the next day anyway.
The best idea I've heard is for everyone to boycott one station. Say everyone stopped buying from Petro Canada for example. They'd have to lower prices right? I don't know how you'd mobilize and control enough people properly to make this idea work but it's the best I've heard.
Realistically, the best we can do is conserve. Drive fuel efficient vehicles (X-Trail: check!), car-pool, take transit, you know, do all the things we know we should be doing anyway. If you look around the world, the US is about the only place with cheaper gas than us so I don't bitch too much.
Get used to it. It's a non-renewable resource. Demand's at an all-time high, and growing (China).
Consider this though: What do you pay for a litre of beer? How about a litre of wine? A litre of OJ? And the kicker - bottled water. What do you pay for that?
Bottom line we've been spoiled for too long. Everytime I feel bad about it I just think of the yahoo in the H2 bombing down the highway practically watching his gauge move downwards before his very eyes.


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## ron519098 (May 4, 2005)

poruchik_r said:


> Hey guys. I know this topic is not really connected to X-Trail in particular, but i just wanted to let my frustration out. $1,34.9 in Toronto for a littre of regular gas. C'mon.....
> What do you think we can do about it? Or we have to shut up and take it?



You should think yourself fortunate. Its the equivalent of $2.15 a litre in the UK.


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## mike dockal (Dec 20, 2004)

wow, I thought Vancouver was the most expensive $1.19


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## XtrailRookie (May 17, 2005)

Yesterday, my neighbour, a Ford Expedition owner, comes over to me and says "So ... looks like somebody made the right decision when buying a truck."

My neighbour on the other side of me, also a Ford Expedition owner, said to me on Friday "Well, I just had a first. I just filled my tank on the way home from Port Dover. It cost me $102!"

Like I said before, the Xty looks better and better every day!

Rookie


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## XTrail1 (Feb 24, 2005)

My last tank gave me 33.98 mpg :hal:


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## ERBell (Aug 7, 2005)

mike dockal said:


> wow, I thought Vancouver was the most expensive $1.19


I live in Maple Ridge BC, about 10 min away from Mission BC, and gas there is always under a dollar per litre. (98.9) the other day. Still cost me $52 to fill up. Not to bad considering.

If the USA has another natural disaster (god forbid) that effects their oil refining industry, we could see gas go up to $2 per litre in Canada.


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## Oreo (Nov 5, 2004)

In Fredericton, regular fuel was $0.98 for most of the summer and is now $1.399. Glad I don't have my pathfinder anymore!!

Greg


ERBell said:


> I live in Maple Ridge BC, about 10 min away from Mission BC, and gas there is always under a dollar per litre. (98.9) the other day. Still cost me $52 to fill up. Not to bad considering.
> 
> If the USA has another natural disaster (god forbid) that effects their oil refining industry, we could see gas go up to $2 per litre in Canada.


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## poruchik_r (Jun 1, 2005)

ron519098 said:


> You should think yourself fortunate. Its the equivalent of $2.15 a litre in the UK.


Yes, I know. I lived outside of North America, and littre of gas was around $1.4 US. Now look on the other side of the problem. My girlfriend lives not too far from me - only around 20-25 km. My work - around the same distance. I am not driving a lot, try to use the car very little - but still, I drive not less then 2,000 km a month. To use public transit if you live outside of Toronto area - pain in the a$$. And Toronto considered to have a pretty good public transit system. My point is - in North America not being able to drive your car is almost the same as having a big handicap. 
And I know that some other places are much worse, I just wanted to bitch a little bit, and see how many people understand me


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## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

*The 12th. of NEVER*



ERBell said:


> I live in Maple Ridge BC, about 10 min away from Mission BC, and gas there is always under a dollar per litre. (98.9) the other day. Still cost me $52 to fill up. Not to bad considering.
> 
> If the USA has another natural disaster (god forbid) that effects their oil refining industry, we could see gas go up to $2 per litre in Canada.


The 12th. of NEVER :-

That's when the price of gas will stabilize :thumbdwn: 

Here on the East Coast we've got the offshore Oil & Gas industry going flat out producing thousands of barels a day and our current price in the Capital City is $148.1 per litre (that's about $5.60 per gallon) :thumbdwn: 

The various levels of gov't (at least Federal & Provincial) are making a killing on the taxes, filling their coffers and putting up the poor mount saying they can't "afford" to give the tax-payer a break :bs: - and the Municipal gov'ts are lined-up with their hands out to the Feds for "their fair share".....SHAME on all of them  

Neither Gov'ts nor us may really be able to change or significantly influence the "supply and demand" aspect of this problem, but the Gov't can certainly exercise some control and restraint on the tax side of the equation  

What's missing is a degree of leadership -that is guts enough to be the first one - (on the Provincial side) - to take the initiative :jawdrop: 

We talk about price fixing within Industry - - from what I've seen lately put forward by the various Premiers of this Country, I think they're guilty of "tax-fixing" among themselves and the Feds are equally guilty. 

Our so-called leader of this Country is hanging on to power by a thread - - if he had any Political savvy at all he would see the opportunity (political) that is presenting itself to be seen as the champion of the "average" guy and take some initiative to do-something-about-it. He who hesitates is lost - and deservedly so !!

Any Canucks out there remember the reason the Joe Clarke gov't (with Finance Minister John Crosbie) fell on a non-confidence motion ???

It's time for Gov't to act and IMHO, it's time that we forced them to do so !!

That's my 2 cents worth - it's all I can afford - I spent the other Buck48 on a litre of gas - thank goodness (and the Japanese) for a fairly fuel efficient X-Trail.

Cheers = Roger


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## X-Traction (Dec 21, 2004)

Canada's Far East said:


> The various levels of gov't (at least Federal & Provincial) are making a killing on the taxes, filling their coffers and putting up the poor mount saying they can't "afford" to give the tax-payer a break :bs: - and the Municipal gov'ts are lined-up with their hands out to the Feds for "their fair share".....SHAME on all of them
> 
> Neither Gov'ts nor us may really be able to change or significantly influence the "supply and demand" aspect of this problem, but the Gov't can certainly exercise some control and restraint on the tax side of the equation


Why should the tax be decreased on gas as it goes up in price? Can you quote me any other good or service where the tax has been lowered as the price went up? Why do you think this special treatment is a NECESSITY for gas, but nothing else? Just curious, seems extremely odd to me, and I'll try not to use words like "emotional" and "irrational".

If you collect enough information, you'll find that your taxes were also paying subsidies to the oil industry, that fall short what is collected in gas taxes.

So I think it's like the taxes on cigarettes. If you choose to drive for trivial reasons or have a vehicle larger than you need, or put minimizing driving low on your list of priorities by which you arrange your life, or use motorized toys for recreation, then it's high time you paid your share of taxes. And if the taxes exceed the costs, then I welcome your voluntary tax payments into the common kitty. Lowering taxes, which amounts to encouraging something that has a lot of aspects of a bad habit doesn't make any sense to me.

Remember that taxes don't just disappear. They go to fund various government programs that benefit you, such as paying down the deficit or subsidizing the oil industry. 

These higher gas prices aren't really costing you much yet. It's just that it's a weekly or daily in-your-face raised cost. These prices represent only a few hundred dollars per year. Less than a simple car repair, or the cheapest option on a new vehicle. Or a set of door sill covers etc. You will be far more concerned when you see your heating bills this winter. Virtually everything is going to cost more because of this. The more fuel we burn in our cars, the more prices are driven up for heating. It's all interconnected. 

The most effective thing to do is to drive less. Lower consumption = less direct cost and downward pressure on prices. X-Trail owners have already helped by selecting a fuel-efficient vehicle. Gas is still only half what people pay in Europe. Lower consumption is good for the planet etc etc yadda yadda. Gas is the cheapest thing you put in your vehicle. For people who can afford new vehicles, like X-Trail owners, there's a big difference between thinking you're hurting, and really hurting. 

End of very unwelcome lecture.


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## Jguy_ca (Feb 13, 2005)

My gas gauge is almost touching the "E" mark. I am still hang on to it. hopefully I can see the gas price drop significantly this week. The crude oil price has gone down but the price at the pump is still somewhere over $ 1.25. :wtf:


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## Rockford (Jan 28, 2005)

I was hanging on too until today. Put in about 54 litres (guess I could have held out a bit longer) or $67.00 worth.
Don't count on them dropping anytime soon.
All those people who shelled out $20K for a SmartCar sure are looking pretty smart now aren't they?
This goes way beyond the price of gas guys. Name me one thing you consume that isn't affected by the price of oil in some way.


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## jww (Apr 22, 2005)

I just came from the gas pump where I filled up my close to empty 02 Altima. The cost was $74.00!!! We spent the past 3 weeks in the UK, and the last price at the pumps here in Ottawa, Canada was about 95 cents/l (which was horrendous enought to begin with!!).

We drove a 2002 Vauxhall Astra 1.6l 4 cyl petrol 4-dr hatchback the entire time we were away. Considering a currency exchange rate of 2.21 to the pound, we put out about the same amount of CDN $$ to fill it at £.89/litre (the cheapest UK price I could find on a reliable basis were Tesco gas bars). I'll go about the same total distance in miles in the Altima that we did in the Astra on the same $$ outlay.

The message here is that we really are now no longer too far off from UK prices, considering NA cars tend to have larger tanks than those sold in Europe and the UK. You might say we have achieved parity  .

Thank goodness for 4 cyl cars - even with MDS, I can't imagine filling up the tank on a 5.7l hemi of a Magnum, Charger or 300. Great entertainment that - watching the gas gauge drop as you stomp your foot on the pedal. It reminds me of the days when I drove a 350 v-8 4 barrel carb '84 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser station wagon. We used to watch that puppy gulp gasoline faster than you could say "52 cents a liter" when idling!

jww


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## Cantum (Jun 12, 2005)

Gas WILL stabilize, and the prices WILL come down.

The bad news?

The days of $0.85/litre gas are long gone. Expect to pay between $1.00 and $1.10 per litre from now on, once all this Katrina stuff passes over.

There's a reason why the "supplier" gas stations (Esso and Shell) all began to grandfather in 4 digit signs early last year. This has been planned for quite some time- Katrina just made it jump faster. 

But it will come down- Why, you ask??

Think about it- EVERYONE is paying an extra $50-$100 a week on gas. That's anywehere from 200-500 a month extra, if not more. 

Do you think anyone is going to tolerate that kind of increase?? And, by anyone, I don't mean us, the consumer. 

What happens when people decide not to take the drive out to Ikea, or to Costco, because it costs too much to pump gas into their Expeditions?? They dont buy goods. When people don't buy goods, the economy goes into the shi.....toilet.

Extremely high gas prices means an increase in the cost of transport, which means an increase in the cost of goods, which means people by less. 

So, now, people aren't willing to go anywhere, let alone daytrip, and, when people DO go somewhere, they don't buy things because they're too expensive, and people have already tightened their belts to afford gas.

Demand for gas goes down, supply goes up, the supluses fall back into line, and we return to what the oil companies project, which is roughly $1.00-$1.10 a litre. 

People, now used to paying $1.35/litre, say "Wow, look how cheap gas is!!!!"- having forgotten all about the days when it was $0.70/litre- and begin buying again. End of cycle.


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## X-Traction (Dec 21, 2004)

Cantum said:


> Think about it- EVERYONE is paying an extra $50-$100 a week on gas. That's anywehere from 200-500 a month extra, if not more.


Let's see, the price has risen, say, $0.20 per litre. That is the "extra" on top of what you were paying before. $50-$100 means you think people are buying 250 to 500 litres per week. At 10L per 100km, that equals 2500 to 5000km of driving per week, or 125,000 to 250,000km per year. If that's true, I suggest you drive less. 

The average vehicle in North America is driven something like 25,000km per year. Our family puts 15,000km total on our two vehicles per year, despite us being in three different places during week days, and our recreation involving being out of town. We have deliberately arranged our lives to not commute by car.

I suspect you have your figures wrong and your actual "extra" expense is vastly less. Which means you don't need to be so disturbed by it, and the consequences you describe are overstated.

I was thinking that no other cost of living is as prominent as gas prices. Every day, we see many large bright signs proclaiming the price of gas. We are bombarded by misleading propoganda about the taxes on it. I can't think of anything else where the price, and all increases, are so heavily advertised. So we have the truckers in New Brunswick blocking the roads. What good is that going to do? Who is supposed to do just what? Doesn't that action itself waste fuel and put upward pressure on prices?

As for the long term consequences, well, gas was 5 cents per litre long ago. This increase won't see a huge change in our economy or habits. There will be change, but not the upheaval you describe. Europeans pay twice what we do. Other than not being energy pigs like we are, how are their lives substantially different from ours? 

And a question for Rockford: Why are purchasers of "smart" cars seen as bright and progressive, while bicycle and transit riders are seen as losers?


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## Rockford (Jan 28, 2005)

X-Traction said:


> And a question for Rockford: Why are purchasers of "smart" cars seen as bright and progressive, while bicycle and transit riders are seen as losers?


Buyers of SmartCars bright and progressive? Well, part of it's all in the name and clever advertising I guess, but you gotta think these people are grinning ear to ear these days. They're saving money, doing their part for the environment, and they're getting approached by fans in parking lots everywhere asking about their cars all at the same time. All without really sacrificing anything in terms of personal freedom. Ya, so you lose some creature comforts and a bit of cargo space. For the amount of time most of us need that, we could probably drive "smart" 9 days out of 10 and simply rent something bigger for the times when we really needed it. My wife and I drive the 400 series hwy's every week day together and we see a lot of 1-person vehicles with 6 and 8 (heck, even 10 and 12!) cylinder engines commuting. I don't think these people have the right to bitch about fuel prices. They made their beds, they can lie in them. For most, I think it's pretty hard to justify needing more than 4 cylinders these days.
Bicycle & transit riders losers? I don't know about that but I think I know what you mean. Certainly though, in Toronto at least, I'd say that most people who ride "the rocket" (transit) or ride their bikes to and fro do so purely because they can't afford cars, not out of some sense of moral rightness. 
There therefore seems to be this stigma attached to transit that it's somehow inferior or second-class. I think that's at least part of it. The other part is pure convenience. Most of us are so used to the convenience that having a personal vehicle allows us (myself included) that the idea of taking the train into work (which while cheaper, would practically double my commute time each way) is one we hardly ever consider. You'll have to pry our dead hands off of our steering wheels!
What we're getting now is a wake up call. Sooner or later we're going to run out of oil. We've always known it, it's just actually starting to happen now. No, we're not going to run out tomorrow, but our kids and grandkids are going to live in a very different world than the one we're in right now.
I voted "green" in the last municipal election for the first time. My wife said I wasted my vote since they had no chance of winning (and I knew it). I wonder what she'll say 10 years from now...


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## Rockford (Jan 28, 2005)

This article i saw on MSN.ca today seems relevent:

"Higher gasoline prices will have green lining, says Pollution Probe 
06/09/2005 6:08:00 PM 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OTTAWA (CP) - Pollution Probe says soaring gas prices may bring what governments haven't been able to achieve - cleaner air. 


Quentin Chiotti, the environmental group's air quality guru, says high prices will promote conservation in a way that politicians never could. 
"There's no doubt that $1.40 a litre gas price is going to have a huge impact on the average consumer's pocketbook," Chiotti said in an interview Tuesday. 

"If it leads to more efficient use of fuel, if it leads to people getting out of their single-occupancy cars and taking public transit, then there is a green lining to what we're facing." 

So far, there has been little evidence of reduced fuel consumption, and some experts say the current spike in prices is not big enough to have a significant impact. 

Chiotti disagrees. 

"We don't buy that at all, that's not what we hear anecdotally. I think it will be interesting to see what impact this price hike actually has. 

"Obviously a 40-cents-a-litre jump in prices is a huge shock to everyone, but I wouldn't be surprised if prices continue at a high level. Sooner or later we'll be paying this amount, and this will be the norm rather than the exception." 

Two separate polls in the past week have shown that air pollution is a top concern for the public. 

A poll by IBM Business Consulting Services found that 60 per cent of adults consider air pollution the most important environmental issue facing Canada, and almost 90 per cent favour stricter regulations to deal with the problem. 

Fifty-three per cent said they expected air pollution would affect their health, up from 12 per cent in 2001; 37 per cent said their health already had been affected. 

Nearly all those surveyed - 97 per cent - said they were willing to reduce the amount of energy they use in order to cut pollution, but only 23 per cent were willing to support higher gas prices to promote conservation. 

The national poll was based on interview with 2,500 adults and the margin of error is plus or minus 1.9 percentage points 19 times out 20. 

A separate poll by Leger Marketing found that 89.2 per cent of Canadians think companies should be obliged to state publicly what they are doing to reduce greenhouse emissions and stop global warming. 

Although smog and global warming are separate problems, both are caused mainly by the combustion of fossil fuels. 

The Leger poll is based on interviews with 1,501 people, and the margin of error is plus or minus 2.53 per cent 19 times out of 20."


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## Oreo (Nov 5, 2004)

Not sure if there is misleading propoganda on the taxes applied to fuel. There is the provincial tax, GST, excise tax. This all adds to a substantial amount of tax. Fuel in the USA where the taxes are not as great (at the border towns) is easily $0.30-0.35 less after the exchange rate is applied. This fuel sold here is from the same refinery the fuel in Canada is from.

As far as driving less, there are many people who aren't able to do this. I would love to drive less but with working a great distance from home I put on 4500 to 5000 km a month. This is $700 a month, as compared to the $450 a month I was paying. In addition, my wife drives about 3500km a month to and from work. We all have different situations, some of which is avoidable while other situations are not.

Greg


X-Traction said:


> Let's see, the price has risen, say, $0.20 per litre. That is the "extra" on top of what you were paying before. $50-$100 means you think people are buying 250 to 500 litres per week. At 10L per 100km, that equals 2500 to 5000km of driving per week, or 125,000 to 250,000km per year. If that's true, I suggest you drive less.
> 
> The average vehicle in North America is driven something like 25,000km per year. Our family puts 15,000km total on our two vehicles per year, despite us being in three different places during week days, and our recreation involving being out of town. We have deliberately arranged our lives to not commute by car.
> 
> ...


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## Cantum (Jun 12, 2005)

X-Traction said:


> Let's see, the price has risen, say, $0.20 per litre. That is the "extra" on top of what you were paying before. $50-$100 means you think people are buying 250 to 500 litres per week. At 10L per 100km, that equals 2500 to 5000km of driving per week, or 125,000 to 250,000km per year. If that's true, I suggest you drive less.
> 
> The average vehicle in North America is driven something like 25,000km per year. Our family puts 15,000km total on our two vehicles per year, despite us being in three different places during week days, and our recreation involving being out of town. We have deliberately arranged our lives to not commute by car.
> 
> ...


Gas was $0.75 a month ago down here. It's currently $1.329.

That's currently roughly a $0.60 increase, which changes your numbers a bit.

Now, I'm gonna figure you don't live in Windsor, otherwise known as Chrysler-ville, or Buy-Big 3 town, where everyone and their uncle drives either a Caravan, a Pacifica, a 300C/Charger/Magnum, or a Ram. The rest drive some other form of truck/SUV, but 90% of people here buy Big 3. Trust me, down here, people are spending that much extra, and that's a conservative estimate.

Other places are a different story, but in the good-ole US of A, people buy TONS of American SUVs and trucks, just like in Windsor. The numbers are correct. Maybe not in Toronto, where your average Joe drives a Civic or a Camry, but across the board where it matters, they are.

Cars DO average roughly 25k a year, but how much extra gas do people waste idling in traffic backups, using the A/C, or bumbling through the 8 million 4-Way stops in your average city??

I like this debate- it sure beats people griping about the government's taxes. :fluffy:


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

*A good laugh in sad times*

 

 

 

 

 


And...the outlook for us motorists is looking like this  hehehe


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## Cantum (Jun 12, 2005)

Does anyone have the pic of the gas station owner in Daytona that replaced the prices on his sign for regular, mid-grade, and premium with "Arm", "Leg" and "First-born"???

I'd love to put that on my desktop.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Cantum said:


> Does anyone have the pic of the gas station owner in Daytona that replaced the prices on his sign for regular, mid-grade, and premium with "Arm", "Leg" and "First-born"???
> 
> I'd love to put that on my desktop.


It was in my collection above, but the link to it is broken for some reason. will fix it up now.

Here it is again


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## X-Traction (Dec 21, 2004)

Oreo said:


> Not sure if there is misleading propoganda on the taxes applied to fuel.
> Greg


I believe that the bombardment of statements about the taxes on gas, without mentioning government subsidies to the oil industry, amounts to misleading propoganda. Just like bombarding us with information about debt and deficits, without talking about assets. Or advertising cigarettes without even hinting at the downsides. I'd be happy to support removing the gas taxes, but only if the subsidies were also dropped



Cantum said:


> Gas was $0.75 a month ago down here. It's currently $1.329.
> 
> That's currently roughly a $0.60 increase, which changes your numbers a bit.
> 
> ...


Ok, ok, it will cost them an arm and a leg. I trust you would guess I don't feel sorry for them


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## Oreo (Nov 5, 2004)

I agree with dropping the subsidies as well. However, the record profits the oil industry is reporting makes the fuel prices hard to swallow. Very similar to the banks implementing bank fees for everything and then reporting extremely hard profits. Just getting tired of getting charge fees for everything we do.

Greg


X-Traction said:


> I believe that the bombardment of statements about the taxes on gas, without mentioning government subsidies to the oil industry, amounts to misleading propoganda. Just like bombarding us with information about debt and deficits, without talking about assets. Or advertising cigarettes without even hinting at the downsides. I'd be happy to support removing the gas taxes, but only if the subsidies were also dropped


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## Cantum (Jun 12, 2005)

X-Traction said:


> Ok, ok, it will cost them an arm and a leg. I trust you would guess I don't feel sorry for them


LOL....Nope, and neither do I- I'm a Nissan convert, lured away from the all-glorious Big 3 by the evil clutches of the Japanese four-cylinder. You've got to remember, the people that are paying that much money are the same people that tried to limit parking near the Big 3 auto plants here to only those who bought Big 3 vehicles, because those would be "Buy Domestic" supporters.

Tell me again what cars they build in Allison??  :loser:


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