# bad vibration in steering wheel



## ahardb0dy (Nov 9, 2003)

Helo, just bought and installed new whels and tires, 15" wheels and 195/50/15 firestone firehawk indy 500 tires, took it in for an alignment and was told they couldn't do it because the car needed ball joints, I had the ball joints and CV axles replaced, after that was done steering felt stiff, steering wheel wouldn't return to center after making slow turns, had the alignment done they said the toe was way off, alignment did not have any effect on the steering feling stiff. also noticed on the alignment printout that they have my car listed as a coupe but it's a sedan and according to the FSM the alignment specs between the 2 models are different, would that cause any problems? discovered the washer behind the cv axle nut that my mechanic left off needed to be on, so I took it apart and using the original nut ( new nut was thicker preventing the cotter pin from going thru the hole) and finally got the cotter pin in, steering feels better now, the car had a shake felt thru the steering wheel right after I put the new wheels and tires on at about 55 MPh, took the car to a local tire store and had the tires re-balanced and rotated, tech in the tire store said all 4 wheels were straight, one only took 1/4 oz of weight. so now it shakes at 55-65 MPH, it feels like it's getting worse. what should I check now? Thinking of calling Tire rack to ask about the 30 day return policy on the Firestone tires, Should I put the stock 13's back on to see of the shake goes away? the 13's didn't shake but they were balanced inside and out. Any other ideas? should I check the tie rod ends? any help is greatly appreciated, thanks


----------



## astreamk1 (Apr 16, 2004)

I'd try moving the front wheels to the rear and see if anything changes. I had a similar problem with my 14's even after being rebalanced. whatever was causing it, it went away when I moved them to the rear.


----------



## nismob12 (Feb 4, 2005)

*stiff*

have it realinged . when you replace parts it will make everything stiff. have them check the toe. a wrong amount of toe will make the car seam like it is floating (extremely responsive) if you drive and turn the wheel at lo speeds (like going into your nabirhood) and you hear a chirp or the tires fighting to keep traction then your alingment is off being tight is ok


ahardb0dy said:


> Helo, just bought and installed new whels and tires, 15" wheels and 195/50/15 firestone firehawk indy 500 tires, took it in for an alignment and was told they couldn't do it because the car needed ball joints, I had the ball joints and CV axles replaced, after that was done steering felt stiff, steering wheel wouldn't return to center after making slow turns, had the alignment done they said the toe was way off, alignment did not have any effect on the steering feling stiff. also noticed on the alignment printout that they have my car listed as a coupe but it's a sedan and according to the FSM the alignment specs between the 2 models are different, would that cause any problems? discovered the washer behind the cv axle nut that my mechanic left off needed to be on, so I took it apart and using the original nut ( new nut was thicker preventing the cotter pin from going thru the hole) and finally got the cotter pin in, steering feels better now, the car had a shake felt thru the steering wheel right after I put the new wheels and tires on at about 55 MPh, took the car to a local tire store and had the tires re-balanced and rotated, tech in the tire store said all 4 wheels were straight, one only took 1/4 oz of weight. so now it shakes at 55-65 MPH, it feels like it's getting worse. what should I check now? Thinking of calling Tire rack to ask about the 30 day return policy on the Firestone tires, Should I put the stock 13's back on to see of the shake goes away? the 13's didn't shake but they were balanced inside and out. Any other ideas? should I check the tie rod ends? any help is greatly appreciated, thanks


----------



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

ahardb0dy said:


> steering felt stiff, steering wheel wouldn't return to center after making slow turns;
> 
> the car had a shake felt thru the steering wheel right after I put the new wheels and tires on at about 55 MPh, took the car to a local tire store and had the tires re-balanced and rotated, tech in the tire store said all 4 wheels were straight, one only took 1/4 oz of weight. so now it shakes at 55-65 MPH, it feels like it's getting worse. what should I check now?


Let me guess, the car is a standard model with manual steering. Am I right? 

I have owned many B12's and all of the standard models I have had, [of course] all had manual steering. I have found that they are especially sensitive to steering wheel shimmies. The bigger the wheels and tires, the more sensitive they are. Why? I think it has to do with the high mileage manual racks developing excess play. I have actually loosened the lock nut on the adjustment screw and tightened up some of the really loose ones I've owned. I did have one standard B12 car a few winters ago, that needed the manual rack replaced because the wear on the rack and pinion gears was localized severly in the center steer position. In other words, it had lots of play going straight. If you turned the wheel and checked it again, it was not sloppy. So on this particular car, adjusting the rack tighter fixed the play, but then it would bind when I tried to steer it as the pinion gear entered the "unworn" part of the rack gears. I had to change that one outright. 

The other thing I remembered about the manual steering B12's was that the steering U-joint used to go bad on those. The Power steering equipped B12's didn't seem to have that problem, but I changed many bad U-joints [under the hood] at the bottom of the steering columns on the manual steering B12's. They can go bad one of two ways. They will either have a ton of play [simply worn out] or they will partially seize from drying out. You mentioned tight steering and not returning to center after making a turn. Try spraying a ton of rust penetrant on the steering u-joint and while working the steering wheel back and forth with the wheels jacked up. The joint will usually loosen up enought to get you by until you can order and install a new one.


----------



## ahardb0dy (Nov 9, 2003)

ok, I put the washer back in that goes behind the cv axle nut, like everyone said that washer needs to be there, I spoke to my old mechanic back home in NY and he said the same thing about the washer, said because there was no washer the axle may be pulled out too far and may be binding when the cars weight is on it, I had told him that with both front tires off the ground the steering felt fine, anyway I removed the cv axle nut and knocked the cv axle shaft back in slightly to unseat it, than I installed the washer using the original nut, I was able to finally get the cotter pin in thru the hole, I've been driving the car since than and the steering feels better more like it did before any of this work was done, the vibration is still there, it's weird when I first put the 15's on it had a shake around 55MPH, than after the parts replaced, alignment, and rebalance and rotation the shake is now at 55-65MPH? yes it is a base sentra with manual steering, I have to check the tie rod ends and like you suggested the steering U-joint I saw something about adjusting the rack in the FSM but wasn't sure where that adjustment is. Was about to call Tire rack and ask them about the free 30 day warranty ( or what ever they call it) on these Firestone tires.


----------



## ahardb0dy (Nov 9, 2003)

checked the steering U-joint yesterday no problem with that it's tight, if I move the steering wheel 1/4" the tires move 1/4", guess I'll have the front tires looked at on the road force wheel balancing machine and see if the tires are straight or not.


----------



## dreamteam (Jul 29, 2005)

What you have described indicates your steering u-joint. Spray it with penetrant and you will notice the difference. BTW, pulsar "se" wheels work well on sentras.......and they are cheap.


----------



## ahardb0dy (Nov 9, 2003)

I'll try that it can't hurt. I don't need wheels I just bought the 4 wheels and tires I have on the car now.


----------



## dreamteam (Jul 29, 2005)

I am mentioning the pulsar wheels because I think your 15" tires may be part of the problem.
Since the pulsar wheels are made for this chassis, they respond well on sentra's......and they are better than going back to the 13's.
Just my two cents.......


----------



## mille-16i (Jun 16, 2004)

I would look at the rack and insure it is in good shape if not look at the wheels run your hand over the tread see if you feel any bumps you may have defective tires that are coming apart. I run either 175 or 195 60/15 firestones on my sentra yes it is power steering but I hav eno vibration in the wheel.


----------



## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

im thinking tie rod ends(inner) which are going to be a nightmare to change. You might as well replace the whole rack. It'll be the easiest way but by all means; get a second opinion.


----------



## ahardb0dy (Nov 9, 2003)

I called TheTire Rack the other night, they told me to take the car to one of their authorized installers and have it looked at. I took it to a Firestone dealer near my job, they balanced all 4 tires, they said they were all off, I didn't see the first two tires when they were on the machine but I saw the last two, the drivers front had a hop to the tire maybe a 2 on a scale of 1-5 ( one being the worst), the drivers rear was worse I would say a 1, they stated on the receipt that all 4 tires had a slight hop and they balanced them the best they could. They told me to see how it rides and if I didn't think it felt better to call TheTire Rack back. I drove it for 2 days it feels a little better but not where I think it should. I called TheTire Rack and told them and they are sending out 2 tires to replace the 2 bad ones I have. They said to try two first and than see how it goes, and to let them know how it is after I have the two new tires installed.

The Manager at Firestone was telling me that going from the 175/70/13's (real skinny) to the 195/50/15's (wider) that I would never get them perfect because the car never came with a tire and wheel that weighs that much and the car wasn't designed for the size I'm using.


----------



## mille-16i (Jun 16, 2004)

ahardb0dy said:


> The Manager at Firestone was telling me that going from the 175/70/13's (real skinny) to the 195/50/15's (wider) that I would never get them perfect because the car never came with a tire and wheel that weighs that much and the car wasn't designed for the size I'm using.


I am glad that tire rack is working with you and the manager was right to a point but if you have true wheels and good tires then you should have no problems running 15s on a sentra most of us run 15's I run 60 series and they are nice and smooth with shitty tires.


----------



## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

i ran 16x7s with 205/40/r16 tires on mine and didnt have any bumpity bumpin going on


----------



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Don't forget that he has a manual steering rack with mileage on it. It will never be perfect.


----------



## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

AVERAGE said:


> i ran 16x7s with 205/40/r16 tires on mine and didnt have any bumpity bumpin going on


Ditto. 
In fact, the old car I had the 16's on handled better than the coup. But it had new struts, ball joints and tie rod ends. The coup only got new a-arm bushings and struts on 14" stock alloys. I had the coup aligned before I put on the new struts, bushings and bigger sways. It needs it again. 
Another thing I found I busted the tentioner bolt on the AC. (The belt was strechted too far...) So, to replace the ac belt you have to remove the PS belt. I found that it was loose as hell too. Tightened er up and it started to whine like crazy. Added almost a pint of PS fluid and the noise is gone. The car WAS acting all herky jerky when going around corners. All good now. :cheers:


----------



## ahardb0dy (Nov 9, 2003)

update: Tire Rack sent me 2 replacement tires, I had them switched out with the 2 worst tires that were on the car and had them installed on the front of the car, installer said these 2 tires looked good although one took 2 1/4 oz's to balance. The car still has a nasty vibration around 55 MPH to 65 MPH. I'm stuck at this point I have no idea what to do next. Was thinking of replacing both rotors and installing new pads ( need them anyway) and see if that does anything. what about the tie rod ends? Thanks


----------



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

ahardb0dy said:


> update: Tire Rack sent me 2 replacement tires, I had them switched out with the 2 worst tires that were on the car and had them installed on the front of the car, installer said these 2 tires looked good although one took 2 1/4 oz's to balance. The car still has a nasty vibration around 55 MPH to 65 MPH. I'm stuck at this point I have no idea what to do next. Was thinking of replacing both rotors and installing new pads ( need them anyway) and see if that does anything. what about the tie rod ends? Thanks


I can't imagine changing the brake rotors would help at all. I'd like to _hope_ the tie rods are good, as you've had various people look at the front end already. 

Did you try switching to a set of correct size tires and wheels and seeing if the problem was still there? Also, did you run the car on the lift in gear to visually make sure the tires run true on the car, and that you don't have a bent axle hub?

If nothing else, I think in the end you might find a problem with a worn manual steering rack.


----------



## ahardb0dy (Nov 9, 2003)

before I got the replacement tires about 2 weeks ago I put the stock sized 13's back on the front only and there was no ( maybe very very slight if any) vibration. They didn't run the car on the lift. As for the steering rack Could running the larger wheel and tire amplify a vibration that doesn't appear running the 13's?


----------



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

ahardb0dy said:


> As for the steering rack Could running the larger wheel and tire amplify a vibration that doesn't appear running the 13's?


 Definately. They're bigger and heavier. They will aggravate any bit of play or slop that may exist in the rack. I would tighten the adjustment on the rack a bit. It's not easy to get at though. Loosen the locknut and use a small chisel to tap the inner adjustment nut in an eigth of a turn or so. If you go too much you'll know it right away on the road test, as the steering wheel won't return to center by itself when you finsh a turn.


----------



## ahardb0dy (Nov 9, 2003)

where exactly is this adjustment screw?


----------



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

ahardb0dy said:


> where exactly is this adjustment screw?


 It's under the car, on the bottom of the steering rack on the driver's side [where the rack and pinion gears mesh]. You'll see it when you get under there.


----------



## dreamteam (Jul 29, 2005)

The fact that your problem went away when you switched back to the 13's indicates your "new" tires and rims are the problem.........
like I said, pulsar rims=no problem......
and do yourself a favor,spray some penetrant on that steering U joint.......


----------



## mille-16i (Jun 16, 2004)

I would have your front end trouble shot just to ensure that you do not have a weak or bad part the tire shop may not have been looking also maybe, here is a long shot, your CV joint may have gotten hurt when the washer was left off and is acting up being amplified by the larger wheels like I said it was a long shot.


----------



## ahardb0dy (Nov 9, 2003)

I sprayed the steering U-joint already, waiting to hear back from The Tire Rack, they're discussing what they are going to do, last time I spoke to them they mentioned something about getting me out of these tires and into 4 different ones. This vibration is really becoming annoying, on the 87 nissan hardbody 4x4 I used to have I had used 35" BF Goodrich all terrains ( the old style) mounted on used 15 x 10 steel modular wheels with a worn front end and it rode better than my sentra does now!


----------



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

ahardb0dy said:


> I used to have I had used 35" BF Goodrich all terrains ( the old style) mounted on used 15 x 10 steel modular wheels with a worn front end and it rode better than my sentra does now!


 And I'll bet it didn't have a high mileage B12 manual steering rack. I sort of feel sorry for the Tire Rack guys. No matter what they do, the vibration won't go away. I think you will either have to replace the rack, and any worn ft. end parts, including the lower control arm bushings which are surely shot by now. Or just stick with original wheels and tires.


----------

