# Im a Newbie - What X-Trail Engine



## Mr Pompey (Sep 4, 2007)

Having done some 4 x 4 homework I seem to have arrived at the X-Trail. Having had a Sunny and Almera GTI I'm well aware of the Nissan reliability

I currently have an 03 Honda Civic Type R but living in the country would prefer something bigger and safer in bad weather

I have no towing plans, wouldn't want to do any serious off roading and at the moment take a train to work so its just in use Fri to Sun. 

My budget is around 10.5 k so I could include the DCI unit, I guess i'm looking aroind an 02 to 04 model. I think I've eliminated the 2 litre petrol so its a choice between the:

2.2 di
2.2 dci
2.5 petrol

The 2.2dci seems the natural choice but I'm worried about what I've regarding turbo failures and ecu mapping 2000/2400 rpm flat spot issues

Can any of you please help a 4 x 4 noob?

Thanks


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## Mr Pompey (Sep 4, 2007)

Mr Pompey said:


> Having done some 4 x 4 homework I seem to have arrived at the X-Trail. Having had a Sunny and Almera GTI I'm well aware of the Nissan reliability
> 
> I currently have an 03 Honda Civic Type R but living in the country would prefer something bigger and safer in bad weather
> 
> ...


Oh man, 31 reads and not one person to add any advice 
Come on guys you must have a view......please help


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## The Mad Hat Man (Oct 3, 2006)

first Q - where are yu based - "serious off roading" is different in the UK to say Canada or Oz?

personally I would go for a petrol as, I believe that, there are still issues with the doozil. I have a 2.0 petrol and find it suitable both on and off road. 'The 2.5 will give yu more grunt, but higher up the rev band. A doozil is best for off roading as the low-down torque is better and it has the ability to run underwater (or at least with flooded electrics).

duz that help - or merely confuse further?


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## Mr Pompey (Sep 4, 2007)

The Mad Hat Man said:


> first Q - where are yu based - "serious off roading" is different in the UK to say Canada or Oz?
> 
> personally I would go for a petrol as, I believe that, there are still issues with the doozil. I have a 2.0 petrol and find it suitable both on and off road. 'The 2.5 will give yu more grunt, but higher up the rev band. A doozil is best for off roading as the low-down torque is better and it has the ability to run underwater (or at least with flooded electrics).
> 
> duz that help - or merely confuse further?


Hi,

Thanks for your reply. I'm UK based. I think I meant to say I would NOT do any serious off roading, i'd be too worried about damaging body and paintwork but some easier stuff may be fun

I'm after a 4 x 4 for safety for me kids plus the 4wd living in the country. I live in Gloucester and you may have heard of all the bad flooding we had recently. In addition any snow / rain etc and we seem to get cut off

I wondered if a 2.0 would be too underpowered and that a 2.5 a little too thirsty

the 2.2 DI I think had a cam chain tensioner issue and the newer 2.2 dci has had turbo/intercooler/ecu issues which I believe have been down to last minute changes by Nissan to comply with EEC regs but they did not long term / big mileage test the changes. 

This will be my first 4 x 4 and possibly first diesel. Its a lot of money to spend and I'm trying to avoid a costly mistake and at the same time buy a reliable 4 x 4 that will last me a long time

All advice welcome


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## Dino D (Sep 5, 2007)

Hello Mate,

I'm in the same 'boat' as you. Just moved from UK to Athens Greece looking to got a soft roader for the missus. For me it looks like a 2,0l petrol auto (no diesel cars allowed in Athens) and we don't appear to have the 2,5 engine here.

I prefer the looks, size, height and interior layout over the CRV, RAV4 and Korean offerings BUT from looking around on this forum I have noted that the Xtrail has a few issues:

1. Throttle body clogging by excess oil blow-by.
2. Differential overheating and failure.
3. Butterfly screw ingestion.
4. Pre-cat desintegration.
5. Dual mass flywheel & clutch failure.
6. MAF sensor failure.
7. Excessive oil consumption.
Quoted from this thread: 
http://www.nissanforums.com/x-trail/135285-goodbye-x-trail.html

But that was a 2,5 car. Not sure if the same problem affects the 2,0 and diesels.
I have seen thread titles on here about the TDI turbos blowing, bit not read the actual posts.

I've also read about Renault being involved with the design/build of the car. This makes sense as these sound like silly Renault faults, not Jap problems!

Anyway, back to your question about engines. Not driven any myself but I reckon a torquey diesel seems to to suit the laid back nature of the vehicle, especially with an auto box. 

But you if you thinking along the lines of petrol don't forget about LPG. I did this to my BMW 330i in UK and it was fantastic. IMO though get the biggest petrol engine and then convert it to LPG as you get the most benefit that way. My 231bhp 3,0 BMW was giving me the running costs of the 150bhp 2,0 diesel motor so it was worth the £2k I spent on the conversion.

I've read varying reports on fuel consumption but it seems up to 340miles on a 55l tank is achievable with the petrol models. 

The petrol models on these classifieds seem to go for a good price:
Nissans for Sale

PS: I'm a newbie here and would liketo say GREAT FORUM and has proved very useful!


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## Mr Pompey (Sep 4, 2007)

Thanks Dino. Problem with LPG is where to source it from!

From what I've read the 2.2dci seems the ideal choice but I'm just worried about all turbo/ecu problems. I wonder if these have been resolved now by the recalls or is an accident waiting to happen. Its still rated as the best 2nd hand 4 x 4 and beats the competition hands down in the user surveys

Maybe its a case of a small problem made into a mountain and its been resolved...?


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## Dino D (Sep 5, 2007)

I lived in London so LPG was always available and it was on all the major motorways where I lived my life mainly (was a national sales rep).

DCI....doesn't Renault also call the diesels DCI?? This is either good or bad news. If it is a Nissan engine it should be fine but if Renault did the engine I'd be worried indeed....Just pop onto a Renault forum and look at the 'problems' pages-they endless!!!

But you may be right about the molehill into mountain issue. The X trail did well in the TOP GEAR surveys. Maybe a different engine/version was used in UK?


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Ok mate, Since you're after a second hand model, I would go for the 2.5LT petrol, which is a much safer option and had much less issues compared to the diesel versions (no offence to diesel owners)

The power difference between the 2.0LT and 2.5LT petrol is noticeable.

Also, I am not sure if all xtrails (Series I and Series II) that came to the UK had one cat. converter or two, as the 2002 model would be a Series I and would have more power than a 2004 model (Series II) with dual cat. converters.

In terms of of LPG conversion for the petrol exy, it's not really needed with its fuel economy and with LPG you'd loose power as well.


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## Mr Pompey (Sep 4, 2007)

aussietrail said:


> Ok mate, Since you're after a second hand model, I would go for the 2.5LT petrol, which is a much safer option and had much less issues compared to the diesel versions (no offence to diesel owners)
> 
> The power difference between the 2.0LT and 2.5LT petrol is noticeable.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback AussieTrail. Off the top of your head do you know the 'real' mpg figures. Looking at UK autotrader (2nd hand car sales) most on offer seem to be diesel. Is this because the petrol heads don't want to sell or maybe just that Nissan sold loads more diesel versions?


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Fuel Economy is totally dependant on your driving style and your driving conditions.

If you floor it on every opportunity you get and start dragging other cars on the road, then you can expect to get around 12LT/100kms (sorry, not sure about the mpg figures)

For normal city driving and a lighter foot on the pedal, this can improve to around 9.5 to 10.5LT/100kms

I think UK imported more of the disel ones than the petrol due to local demand and you'd probably find that those who own the petrol version don't wanna sell it (yet) This could change now that the new shape xtrail is being sold in the UK.


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## Mr Pompey (Sep 4, 2007)

aussietrail said:


> Fuel Economy is totally dependant on your driving style and your driving conditions.
> 
> If you floor it on every opportunity you get and start dragging other cars on the road, then you can expect to get around 12LT/100kms (sorry, not sure about the mpg figures)
> 
> ...


Thanks for your feedback AussieTrail

For us UK guys...on the basis 5 miles = 8km and 1 UK gallon = 4.54 litres then using your figures...

Heavy foot = 23 mpg

Lighter city driving = 27-29 mpg

I've currently a Honda Civic Type R which I will sell to buy the X-Trail and so I know all about heavy foot v light foot!

Anything in your 2.5 l version that I should bear in mind when looking for one other than a regular service history? Thanks


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## Dino D (Sep 5, 2007)

Thats pretty good consumption figures for the Xtrail.

Re the Honda: I could never get better than 25mpg on my Prelude Vtec but that car did not encourage shifting up early.....it had good torque being the 2,2 but it was just much better when it was on cam. 

I still miss that Honda dearly....How do we go from Honda Vtecs to soft roaders???


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Mr Pompey said:


> From what I've read the 2.2dci seems the ideal choice but I'm just worried about all turbo/ecu problems. I wonder if these have been resolved now by the recalls or is an accident waiting to happen. Its still rated as the best 2nd hand 4 x 4 and beats the competition hands down in the user surveys
> 
> Maybe its a case of a small problem made into a mountain and its been resolved...?


Seems there were two issues. After they boosted the bhp on the diesel there were reports of turbo failures that also resulted in the inter-cooler blowing an oil leak. My brother-in-law bought the DCi in 2005 and it was recalled for an ECU tweak to prevent the problem. Some people who had turbos replaced found they need a second replacement soon after. It's not clear whether that was because the original cause wasn't sorted or because they were given iffy reconditioned units.

In 2006 they had to remap the ECU again to meet Euro IV emission standards and that resulted in some owners noticing a slight hiccup at 2400 rpm. I bought mine in June 2006 and noticed it under some conditions. It was fixed by a remap in August 2006 but because it had needed to go through the emission control hoops anyone who bought in January had a long wait and it cost Nissan a lot of goodwill. It's only a 10 minute while you wait job.

We've got three of these in the family including a nephew who has had three, all new, since the Xtrail was launched. None of us has had any issues yet apart from the Euro IV mis-fire that I had and was fixed with the remap. Hope it lasts. 

On consumption, I've kept a spreadsheet since new and get about 35mpg. Most is short journeys around town but motorway cruising at 80 on the clock gives almost exactly the same. My BIL says he gets a lot better than that but could be he's less precise in measuring or lower cruising speeds. Nice drive on motorways - at 80 it's just ticking over in 6th gear with bucketfuls of torque on hand.


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## Mr Pompey (Sep 4, 2007)

Dino D said:


> Thats pretty good consumption figures for the Xtrail.
> 
> Re the Honda: I could never get better than 25mpg on my Prelude Vtec but that car did not encourage shifting up early.....it had good torque being the 2,2 but it was just much better when it was on cam.
> 
> I still miss that Honda dearly....How do we go from Honda Vtecs to soft roaders???


I'm not looking forward to the change 

The VTEC engine in the CTR, and I guess the prelude, is designed to be driven using high revs, I think max torque is around 7,600 rpm. Man my CTR sticks to the road on corners and overtaking is such a breeze and good fun. The 4 x 4 choice is for a number of reasons of which one is to calm me down. I think I was getting 28-31 mpg out of the CTR and that is with a heavy foot!

You saying I should stick with my CTR


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## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

I moved from a hot hatch to the Xtrail. I initially ordered a new BMW 325i Touring, got a good discount, but after waiting for the new model realised there was no way of getting our four dogs in the back and cancelled.

The Xtrail is a different deal. It takes the four dogs with ease and is a completely relaxing drive. Over-taking is stress free due to all that torque but it won't beat boy-racers from the lights. What it will do is cross muddy fields that would bury the average hot hatch to the axles and go through standing water without a thought.

It does affect the way you drive and with any luck I'll keep my licence a bit longer.


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## Mr Pompey (Sep 4, 2007)

flynn said:


> I moved from a hot hatch to the Xtrail. I initially ordered a new BMW 325i Touring, got a good discount, but after waiting for the new model realised there was no way of getting our four dogs in the back and cancelled.
> 
> The Xtrail is a different deal. It takes the four dogs with ease and is a completely relaxing drive. Over-taking is stress free due to all that torque but it won't beat boy-racers from the lights. What it will do is cross muddy fields that would bury the average hot hatch to the axles and go through standing water without a thought.
> 
> It does affect the way you drive and with any luck I'll keep my licence a bit longer.


Nice summary Flynn Keeping the licence is also a good thing as my CTR cruises nicely at 120mph!

Thankyou for your advice and feedback and also to everyone else. Anymore comment is welcome and I hope this thread offers good help to anyone else with the same dilemma as me

What a great forum!


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## Dino D (Sep 5, 2007)

Mr Pompey said:


> You saying I should stick with my CTR


If you can afford it yes! But if you can't look at the older Civic as a run-around (ek9 i think) 1.6 vts with 160bhp. Even higher revving but in a lighter shell-not as quick as you CTR but quick enough: Lots here: Honda Civics for Sale

My prelude 2,2 vtec was the last generation one (with the funny square-ish upright headlights) but the prettier previous gen was a little quicker, especially the JDM. They can be had for very little money. Nice low, proper sports car driving position and the 185bhp 2,2 vtec engine. I doubt it's as sharp as the CTR but it handles nicely, quite an adjustable tail and very little understeer. 

I bought mine on 115k miles and sold it on 185k miles. I spent a fair bit on replacing suspension parts and the 5 gear synchro was going when I sold it but it did lead a very hard life with me and the previous owners. Find one with lower miles and with older previos owners and you could have great run around for under 2k that will last you thousands and thousands of miles.
Lots here: Honda Preludes for Sale

My personal strategy is to get an old e30 BMW or a MX5 as the RWD bug bit me after having a 330i. Problem in greece is that cars hold their value allot more than in UK. For example a Civic worth £1,5 would fetch 6k euros here!


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