# Understanding the typical B11/B12 owner



## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Guys and Gals,
I have been a fan and tinkerer of the Datsun 210 , and more recently the Nissan B11 and B12 Sentras, for many years. But it wasn't until I became involved with the 210 Club [thank you Unaclocker], and now Nissanforums, that a pattern became evident to me. I asked myself, "Why do I choose to put so much time and energy into these low-dollar, basic transportation cars?" There are many reasons, but the one single reason that stands out is: I'm cheap. Yes, there are other reasons, like the satisfaction of beating much more expensive cars with our "economy" cars. I hope no one in this forum takes offense to this, but I think the common thread that links us all together is: we're cheapskates. We won't spend $4000 on a turbo kit, but we'll spend all day, or all week, working on adapting some cheap or free used parts from that beloved parts donor car, to upgrade our "economy" cars. We'll use these forums to talk about turbos, nitrous, EFI mods, etc. But few of us ever do any of that. Here's a case in point. Practically everyone with an E16 wants more power. We constantly talk about how to get it, but it's never really easy or practical.

OK let's say, someone comes along, and spends thousands of dollars worth of R&D on a Jackson racing-type supercharger setup, for the E16. Custom cast manifold, Eaton blower, belt drive kit, pulleys, maybe a custom calibrated Weber carb to top it off, [or a TBI/ECU upgrade]. Just what we've all been praying for right? We'll see post after post about how this guy and that guy all are going to get one. OK, then lets say this "Blower Kit" ends up costing $3,000. You know what happens next right? All we hear is excuses, and virtually no one actually goes for it. Why? Because this goes against the whole philosophy of being a B11/B12 enthusiast.

I'll use myself as an example. I could buy a new car. But I have never owned a new car. I always prefer to get someone else's throwaway Sentra, to rebuild, and drive for pennies, year after year. Most of you know, my latest project was a totaled '89 4WD B12 wagon. I paid $50 for it. I cut the wrecked front of it off, and carefully welded on the whole front clip off of another $50 '87 B12 sedan. Then, I swapped in a '93 GA16DE from a $300 rolled over B13 4-door XE, [which I sold the five speed out of for $300]. Now the GA16DE engine and EFI harnesses were free, [there's that magic word again]. Now I have a one-of-a-kind 16 valve, port fuel injected, 4WD B12 Sentra. See what I'm talking about? This car makes me more happy, than spending $17,500 on a new SE-R. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to have a new SE-R. But buying a new car, is not what a cheapskate does. Thank God we're all not cheapskates, or our economy would be in a shambles! 

So let's hear it if you're a cheapskate like me. Now's your chance to stand up and be counted


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## LittlebittaContact (Oct 12, 2002)

No, im not a cheapskate. But i would rather keep somthing that runs good, running good. As some of you know, my motor blew its head gasket (big suprise) so i replaced and basiclly rebuilt the entire motor. But why? its nothing more then a 70 HP B12 right?....oh but its so much more. I definatly wouldnt have done this to an old escort or a cavilear, they just don't have the charecter or feeling that the Sentra SE does.
Ive driven Chevy celebrities, Cavilears, Ford Rangers (curse). and nothing Conveys the feel of driving quite like my Sport Coupe Does, especially after a Fresh Wax Job and the sunroof off.

Does That Even Come Close To Answering Your Question?


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

LittlebittaContact said:


> *
> 
> Does That Even Come Close To Answering Your Question? *


 ***** Hmmmm.... I didn't ask a question. I opened up the floor to see if anyone agreed with my logic. I think you may have missed the point. Let's see. How much did you pay for your Sport Coupe? 
Let's put it another way: How many of you guys spent more than $500 on your B12?


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## LittlebittaContact (Oct 12, 2002)

Okey, i think the Point was made, The question, or prompt, I heard was why do we put money into these cars that everyone thinks are Low-end, meaningless cars. My Answer was because the way the car makes the driver feel. Cavs and Tempo/escorts have no feel or driver input. As strange as this may seem, (and without trying to sound stupid ) It Seems like the car will tell us what they want to do. Its like the car asks you to shift by the engine sound. And Lets you know right before it actually loses traction that you need to slow your ass down because you'll never catch that 300ZX by out cornering it. These other cars just dont do that, and that is why i put so much into this car.

In Answer To your other question: 350.00 for the car, 120.00 for the MAF sensor it needed, and around 200.00 for the gaskets and timing belts, and around 55.00 for the other Cylinder head.
In addition to that i have around 900.00 in reciepts in my glove box. 

Edit: I Say Timing BeltS because on the first one, i didn't tighten the nut on the tensioner tight enough and it backed off and fell into the mix of things and make both sides of the belt equally smooth   Oh well...Its 'Spearience


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2002)

Yeah, I have to agree. I'm definately a cheapskate, and I drive this car because I got it cheap. Granted, there are alot of cars you couldn't GIVE me, I happen to like the looks of this Sentra, but yeah, I do like a well priced car.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

UnaClocker said:


> *Yeah, I have to agree. I'm definately a cheapskate, and I drive this car because I got it cheap. Granted, there are alot of cars you couldn't GIVE me, I happen to like the looks of this Sentra, but yeah, I do like a well priced car.  *


 ***** Thank you Unaclocker. I knew you'd be with me on this one!  
Littlebittacontact: I like the way you answered my questions. No attitude, just facts. Thank you. You see, I mean no disrespect for any of you guys. And make no mistake, I wasn't implying that we spend too much money on our B12's. Just the opposite: I was saying that most of us go the intense labor and creativity route, and not buying five grand worth of bolt-ons. We use our heads and our hands, not our wallets! :cheers:


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## LittlebittaContact (Oct 12, 2002)

Blown, im with you all the way. No Disrespect was taken. And i dont think thier is such a thing as spending too much money on a car you love...(ok mabye there is) but the simple fact is that they never made 5 grand worth of bolt ons for out cars! LoL because noone ever thought this car was worth it, but we did, and we come to these boards not only to BS with one another, but to take information from other peoples mistakes or good fortune and put it to use on our cars. NissanFoLyfe Yo' Heh...And Amen to the fact that we use our heads and hands and not our wallets...


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## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

well, sadly enough (not really) , i am a cheapskate too. but if my b12 is sick , she will get whatever she needs to get running again. my girlfriend has a 97 gst and it just boggles her mind to no end to why i keep putting money into this car. i simply pick up my beer , take a sip and reply,"because i love it" , which usually makes her frown and walk away thus completing my "things to do list" for the day. lol . hell, i ve been to the dealership myself and drolled over the spec v . had an idiotic salesman so bent on selling me the damn thing , that he tried with every once of bs in his body to convince me that the se-r had a vg30 in it. giggling to myself i simply replied," uh huh"..... "really", ya dont say...........


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## RiceBox (Apr 30, 2002)

I'm not all that cheap, but I am a poor college student. I needed something reliable, which this car has been, and I needed something cheap. I paid $2500 for it BUT it is a '93, had only 200,000kms and a nice big fat service record. Why I love this car? hmmm...low-end torque that just pulls you out of corners, nicest manual tranny EVER, extremely well balanced handling, good steering and brake feel, and it just won't die. From that discription it sounds like a sportscar. Too me it really is, I auto-crossed it quite a few times and everyone was quite surprised how this car could be drifted into a corner, and dance through a slalom. 

Basically this car makes me want to drive, and makes that driving time very fun. ***runs outside and hugs car***


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

AVERAGE & Littlebittacontact: great stories  I am lovin' this thread! Ricebox: you are definately NOT the typical B12 owner. My hat's off to you  
Keep them coming boys! :cheers:


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## RiceBox (Apr 30, 2002)

blownb310 said:


> *Ricebox: you are definately NOT the typical B12 owner. My hat's off to you
> *


Why am I definitely NOT a typical owner?!?!


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

> We won't spend $4000 on a turbo kit,


We won't?

Actually, you're right on with me. Have you ever noticed that all my modifications were made from scraps of other nissan cars. The engine, disc brakes, and yes the turbo kit too. In that perspective your right on, but I think I've spent way too much money to be a cheapskate. The real reason is best described in your words....



> Yes, there are other reasons, like the satisfaction of beating much more expensive cars with our "economy" cars


and there you go...


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## tsi200sx (Nov 8, 2002)

I'm not a b11/b12 owner (though I do like driving my wife's b13 XE), but I can totally relate with what you guys are saying. My cheap, old, underestimated car of choice is an S12 200SX. While it's not what most would call an economy car (it's the SE model with the VG30E v6 from the Z31), most of the principles you are discussing apply to me totally. Many people would never give this car a second look, and would wonder why I choose to drive and pamper a 15-year-old car. Well, I've had a soft spot for 200SX's ever since my '82 hatchback I bought at the age of 16, and at this point in my life, I am a cheapskate, too. I prefer to have an older car that I can actually work on myself, though in my case, I prefer RWD. My favorite thing is that, like most cars that age, it's relatively rare. You don't see S12's every other block, just like you don't see b11's every other block. Many people don't even know what it is. That's what appeals to me most of all. Especially the Honda kiddies who can't imagine that such a car could have a 3-liter engine and as they're pulling up next to me don't notice that my exhaust rumbles instead of buzzes like theirs.


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## 7RIPP3R (Sep 27, 2002)

I think I am one of the few here that were lucky enough to have had their B12 handed over to them by a relative. (totaly  free) And I don't like to call myself cheap  (i am) I like to think of myself as an educated consumer  My first car was a 1973 plymouth valiant with a carbed slanted 6 under the hood. It had a nice brown color, 4 doors and space to fit 10 of your closest friends. Paid $50 bucks for it and lasted 2 years. It took me back and forth to school. After it got towed I never thought I would own another car with character. In comes my aunt's b12 manual tranny that was just sitting in the garage. It had 55K original miles on it now up to 67K (my daily driver to work) I had some oil around the engine leaking from somewhere. After looking closely I found that it was simply the oil cap that needed replacement (a 5 dollar upgrade) and some Foamy Gunk to clean the crud. And to think that the local shop said that I might need to change the oil pump. 

The thing is, I love the car and tinkering with it brings me joy. Can't break it down more than that. Call me cheap but I a happy camper  Rock on peeps


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

7RIPP3R said:


> *
> 
> The thing is, I love the car and tinkering with it brings me joy. Can't break it down more than that. Call me cheap but I a happy camper  Rock on peeps *


 ***** Well said guys! I must admit, that the term "cheapskate" is not a one-fits-all term. And I, like Charles and others, do spend righteous bucks on some necessary things [for the car and otherwise], but I think we all agree that creating something unique [and fast!] out of ingenuity, [and frugality] is an art all to itself!


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

RiceBox said:


> *Why am I definitely NOT a typical owner?!?! *


 ***** Well, because from the way it sounds, if [when] you had the money, you'd buy a BMW. So, you are definately not a cheapskate! Alot of us here, got our B12's as cheap fixer-uppers. Yours was actually a nice car from the git go. That's cool brotha!


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## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

> I think I am one of the few here that were lucky enough to have had their B12 handed over to them by a relative.


I can remember it was october of 1987 and I was about 10 years old peering over the window ledge at my dad who had just pulled up in the driveway in the Sentra. It was brand spakin new and at first I found it to be an odd looking car. I went outside to take a closer look and the first thing out of my mouth was " it looks like a cardboard box, dad." My Dad continued to gaze into the Sentra's "fire engine" red paint for a few moments and then responded "One day this will be yours." I spent the next 7 years washing it every weekend for $5 and eventually it did become mine. 

On that first day, I never knew how big of an imapct "the box" would have on my life. I'll spare you the details but looking back now, I know I simply wouldnt be who I am today had my dad never brought home "the box."


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2002)

i am cheap, period. but that is not why i chose this car
just something about it that i love


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## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

man, im just glad that im able to say that i have something different because around here EVERYONE has a civic. the nissan market is getting bigger as i see more se r surfacing from there dads garages or whatever and quite a few g20 too. i dont know i guess its just the look that i get when i roll up next to the high school kid with the civic with every sticker from every performance company under the sun and he spots my wheels and body kit and wonders why i even bother. i just cant wait to one day be able to leave them at the light(3 speed auto) lol


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## antdagreat (Nov 24, 2002)

i did not want my car the first time i saw it. the passenger door didn't open it didn't lock the radio was crap and it needed 4 struts and all kinds of front end work. i bought it because it's engine was good and in my budget $700. 

i have had it for a year and a half and i have put about what i paid for the car into it but i don't really care. my car has come along way. but it has a ways to go.

i am a cheapskate but i don't care i have to be i'm still in college and don't need a car payment. 

i have considered a classic se-r but no matter what i do i'll always have my b12. i just couldn't sell it we've been through alot together 

i'm just glad i drive a nissan and not a honda like every other uninformed racer. the way i look at it is hondas are for the common person but nissans are for people on the next level.


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## AVERAGE (Aug 9, 2002)

i couldnt have said it better myself


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2002)

I'll have to agree with the forum members that are in high school or attending college. I bought my B12 Sentra because it was what I could afford at the time. I was looking into buying a civic at one point in my search (shudders), but I'm glad that I ended up buying the sentra instead because it's more unique and takes more ingenuity and thought in building them up. Plus it's nice to have something other than a civic or an integra around my area since that's practically all there is in southern cali. I definetly think that the B12 grows on you. Like Hybrid was saying when he first saw his car, that it looked like a "cardboard box." I didn't immediately drool over the looks of the car as the aerodynamics and aesthetic appeal are quite dated, and many people at my school would think I was an idiot for wanting to put money into an ugly, old car as they put it. As I look back, I could have gone either way. If a civic had been my first car my loyalty would probably be there, but I'm glad that I didn't. I'm hooked on Nissans and old school cars now. I think that the biggest appeal to the car is it's economy car status and dropping in a different motor and being able to leave a civic or American iron in disbelief as to how they got beat by a little shit box. I have quite a while to go until I can afford a motor swap, but until then I'll keep raiding the junk yards for deals and be proud of my baby.


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## SuperHatch (Dec 3, 2002)

Why don't women like B11's? I dunno, maybe it's just mine.. maybe I should slap her or something.. any input?! just kidding...


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## Nismodriver (Apr 30, 2002)

I'd just like to add, that to duplicate my little super hooptie would cost ya about $14k. I'm not too cheap ;o)

John


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## Galimba1 (Aug 16, 2002)

*I love my B12*

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I'd just like to say working with my B12 was a really fun experience. I haven't done anything major to my sentra yet except for the cluster swap last year. I've had the car since 1995, and have had no problems save one. Back in 2000, I had a major leak at the crank pulley. Since it was my daily driver, I didn't have the time or resources to fix it, so I had my local mechanic swap in a GA15i straight from japan (is $750 alot for engine + swap?). Granted, it had a few Hp less (struggled over the Grapevine on I-5), the car was just as reliable (usual gas, fluids, etc), and I took the GA16i home to study. Before the cluster swap, I could only approximate RPM by ear, and by comparison w/the tach, shifting around 3000 to 4000 rpm. Since the cluster swap, I've been driving the B12 like a go-kart, easily shifting in the 5500 rpm range, and sliding around every known safe corner (disclaimer: not really, because that would be illegal, unsafe driving), especially with the Activetuning RSTB to help kick in that oversteer and whip around corners(see disclaimer above). 
Now, I do all my work, which so far has been all fluids, brakes, CV joints, minor repairs/upgrades and installations. Next on the list is a 4 speed to 5 speed upgrade, and a UR crank pulley. Since my car is no longer a daily driver, I can't really add the $750 swap while I was in college. Total of parts comes to just around $500 (cost me 300 for the tranny). Absolutely none of the cost of the parts justifies the monetary value of the car, which is probably less than the swap. But the ZOOM ZOOM factor is off the charts.


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## Bugalou (Mar 31, 2004)

I'm more into Pulsars, I love the look of them and the front seat is like a cavern with plenty of room for my 6'3" frame, I don't even have to put the seat back all the way for my long legs...also love the huge hatchback, I can throw a hell of alot of my junk in there..My first one was an 87 with the E16i engine I bought for 300 bucks but its rear end is pretty much rotted away but the motor and 5 spd tranny are still strong at 180.000 miles..I put about 50 bucks into that car mechanically and never changed the oil , it served me well for 2 years and 20,000 miles..then I bought the 88 pulsar for $150..120,000 miles,5 spd, it has the CA18de engine and the car is rust free, even the undercarriage..I have about $900 in parts into it since I bought it 3 weeks ago but when I'm done I'll have a very reliable car that will last me for years for around 1000 bucks...the only thing I don't like is the big engine, I really wanted a E16i Pulsar with no rust but couldn't find one, that is a nice simple engine and easy to work on..The only new car I bought in my life was a 97 Dodge Ram slt 4x4 and at 25,000 bucks its just not worth it, I'll won't buy new again..its just too much money to spend on something who's parts total about 5000 bucks to make if even that..

Bug


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## 1989SentraOK (Jan 29, 2004)

I love my B12 to death....and i'm not even 16. I've driven it about 4 times. since last month it's been locked in my grandpa's garage. I've always been big into racing and cars, but when my dad gave me the B12, I figured I'd just trade it in for a Honda or something, but this little hunka junk opened me up to the world of Nissan, and I like what I see. Plus, I like to challenge myself and what's more challenging that building up a B12 Sentra and still having fun? Now I plan on turbo'ing my GA16i! That's right! and yea I'm still a cheapskate, but I just can't help but think of the look you get when someone who's never seen a good-looking B12 compliment you on your car. If you put hard work and money into something, it's possible, and I stand beind that theory.


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## GetsomeGOJO (Apr 4, 2004)

I just wanted y'all to know, I am CHEAP, but also an SPEND THRIFT. I started work on my BRAND NEW '89 sedan today and it was nothing but pleasure (and busted knuckles!). I degreased the engine with a toothbrush, removed the valve cover, replaced the leaky gasket and painted it a cheery red to contrast with the navy blue airbox (Do engine cosmetics make one a ricer?). I also fixed the broken headlight mounting brackets (not the adjustment screws) with a dab of epoxy) Tomorrow, I replace the rotten muffler with the cheapest can I could find (generic muffler, Advanced Auto Parts $37 w/tax) and I'm off to the next big hurdle, State Inspection Round II!
From there, it's where the wind takes me. Should I spend my next paycheck on paint and pulsar seats/wheel, or a new exhaust system? Hmmm... sounds like I need a new thread. Anyhow, I just wanted to count myself among the joyful! Many Many thanks for everyone's interest in my own little project as well as the wealth of information I've learned by reading past posts. Happy Motoring!


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## 1989SentraOK (Jan 29, 2004)

I've said several times, but.......DynoMax glasspack 17" for like 20.00 from Jegs. Sounds good and flows good. And cheap.


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## B11sleeper (Oct 15, 2003)

hmmm...
I have a datsun 210 that has like $4,000 in new parts and whatnot in the last 6 months.

Car projects are such a utilitarian hobby. I'm building a daily driver that i like so i can build a rally car. Then i get to drive both and have fun.

the datsun has some classic value some day, it's a sexy car. my b11... likes to be driven hard and is as good as any FWD car of that era.


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## Popkorn (Nov 16, 2003)

First B12 4dr, free. $1,500 or so in tires/wheels, suspension and stereo. Best looking and riding B12 around. 
2nd B12 Sport Coup XE, $350. Now I got AC, sunroof, factory alloys, rear wiper, louver and a car that nobody else has. 
I high school I ran around with a kid that had a Datsun LB110. When the B11's came out we scoffed and laughed at how fugly they were. Then came the B12. WOW! one good looking car. Nissan(by Datsun) as it was labeled on my 79 pickup, is finally starting to make a comeback. So we said. Then came the B13 and so on. Anyway, I just love the B12 body style. And the wife is crazy bout the Coup.


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