# Bridrive55's 11 second challenge! Please help



## bridrive55 (Aug 26, 2004)

Ok guys, here's the scoop. There is a tightly-knit group of 240SX owners in my city. I have always been the young'un, the outsider, the scapegoat. A lot of these guys have some serious power, and they've all got a lot of time invested in their cars. Well, we were all hanging out last night, and they started picking on me. Just teasing and stuff... I get defensive sometimes, but I know they all mean well. One of the guys dared me to match his best time of last summer. This guy has a fully built SR with GT2871 turbo and 760cc injectors. Obviously I can't touch that, but his best run last summer was made with a 'Tater (GT28RS) and 550cc's. Oh yeah, and an open diff.
Don't ask me why, don't ask me how, but he ran 11.99 in the quarter mile with an open diff. Now he bumped it up to 760cc's, the new turbo, and a Kaaz 2 way LSD with race slicks. 
The challenge is this: to make my KA24DET run in the 11's. I have $1500.

I know it sounds bad. I know I'm screwed. There is no way that my car will lay down an 11 second time. But even if I don't make it into the 11's, my valiant efforts should make me proud. I want to make a good run.

I have the engine side done up as much as it will be, as is. I can lay down the horsepower. The internals are no concern; if I blow a piston or any seal when I'm at the track, my _expert_ team of mechanics, builders, and engineers will be able to do the necessary repairs on the dime. I'm bringing the entire StreetTech team and then some. 

I have $1500 to put into my current setup, to make it handle the horsepower, to make my car run fast at the track. This isn't going to be easy. I need to be able to support 400whp, and support it good. Now comes the rough part.

I have a single disc race clutch that slips on 15psi. I have a VLSD. I have stock rims and tires. And I only have $1500.

Here's where you guys can help me out. I am definitely going to buy a 3 disc full racing clutch, and I would really like to have slicks. The problem with that is, can I find slicks to fit on the stock 15" rim? If not, what tires would you guys run? I can't spend $300 a tire. 

I'm going to stiffen up the suspension as much as I can buy borrowing KYB struts loaded with nice coils from my buddy. That should help defend against the everpresent hop of the rear tires during launch. 

What else should I address? With the money left over after clutch and tires, I'm going to pick up some wicked cams, metal head gasket, bearings, and the pistons I need. Don't worry, I can get a full set of forged pistons for $400. Being in StreetTech has it's benefits. 

I know it's crazy, I know 11 is not a number I will see this summer, except maybe in ECU trouble codes (yes, I run an OBD-I ECU now). I just want to go all out and give it my best shot, and maybe make my KA24DET lay down an awesome run both for myself, and to show those guys that the 2389cc Iron Monster can dish it out. Any help, track tips, encourangement, discouragement, snide remarks, or anything in between is greatly appreciated.


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## 240luvr (Oct 8, 2004)

YOU CAN DO IT!!!!! The wheel hop on launch is definitley something you'll want to fix. Also, I would have the suggestion of getting your car to a dyno and tuning it up right. I highly doubt that you'll hit the 11's, but there's always that chance...and if you do, be sure to rub it in all your friends' faces!

Now, you could be a little bitch and put nitrous in...but that's cheating in my book. 

Good luck!


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## Loki (Jan 12, 2004)

240luvr said:


> YOU CAN DO IT!!!!! The wheel hop on launch is definitley something you'll want to fix. Also, I would have the suggestion of getting your car to a dyno and tuning it up right. I highly doubt that you'll hit the 11's, but there's always that chance...and if you do, be sure to rub it in all your friends' faces!
> 
> Now, you could be a little bitch and put nitrous in...but that's cheating in my book.
> 
> Good luck!


x2

also do all the weight reduccion you can....hitting 11's with nitrous is for pussu's or ricers.......hitting low 9's or 8's with nitrous is more of a....NICE.


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## k4pt4inkr011i0 (Oct 5, 2004)

What do you run now? That will amke it easier to see where you need to go. The turbo you have now should get you there alright. For starters you could remover everything minus the driver's seat. You could always put it back later, and it might end up saving you a 150lbs. The 400whp should get you there, so I guess you've already got it figured out with the slicks and the clutch. Maybe some CF with the extra money.


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

i dont understand how using nitrous is cheating..or how its for pussy's.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Nitrous is the Holy Grail to awsome power; it's not being a 'Pussy', it's being realistic! Turbo/Nitrous will give you some awsome power as long as the motor stays together. With the right tuning and fuel management, you just might do real fine.

If your 15" wheels are OEM, then they are only 6" or 6.5" wide; no good for a nice wide slick. Go with an 8" or 9" wide wheel; this way you can put some real meat to the pavement. With nitrous, you'll have to stage it's entry; if you turn it on at launch, you'll just smoke the slicks and go nowhere.


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## Nismo14-180 (Mar 31, 2004)

Im not into drag racing in the least, but id say get 2 16x8 wheelsfor the rear and some 255/50/16 Yokohama Advan A032R Hard compounds. Anything other than that, I say completely gut the car, all you realy need in their is a tach, seat and harness.But then again Im not a drag racer.


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## Bluehydro8 (Apr 1, 2005)

This may sound stupid but You can do if you have faith in your car. Everyone thinks cars are just pieces of machinery but if you think about it, no 2 cars are the same. Remove everything to , I mean everything. Hood, hatch window, sun roof if you have it, all the interiors, I personally dont believe in NOS but I do believe in high octane race gas. then tune you ECU for correct fuel mapping. and if your really bent set on winning the bet, go on a diet....hey anything helps. Good luck!!!


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## 240luvr (Oct 8, 2004)

I don't necessarily see nitrous as "cheating" per-say. I just see it as the easy way out. When you don't want to build a real car...you put nitrous in it. I just hate seeing "1000 WHP Supra!" on the cover of a magazine, then you read it...and it has nitrous. In my mind...nitrous shouldn't be added in to the whp. Show what your car actually has, not what the nitrous adds to it.


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## xbrandonx (Mar 27, 2004)

240luvr said:


> In my mind...nitrous shouldn't be added in to the whp. Show what your car actually has, not what the nitrous adds to it.


So should you run your car in the 1/4 without the nitrous and use that as your time? Other mods aren't any differnt why shoud n02 be?

er, and I would leave the hood on the car.


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## 240luvr (Oct 8, 2004)

I just see a motor as something that's supposed to run off of gas... You make a car run with parts. Adding nitrous into the mix, is just the easy way out...why not actually make your ENGINE run as fast as you want...not mix in a different gas to make it run faster...

Again...personal opinion. It's just a personal opinion...


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## bridrive55 (Aug 26, 2004)

I don't know if I can get a set of 16x8 rims that cheap. I found some used ones in similar size, but the lug pattern is never right. I don't know what I can do, but I'm going to pull out all the stops to get slicks on the car before I hit the track. 
The car will also be dyno tuned before the track time. I plan on running 21psi. I haven't been able to find an S13 DE intake cam yet, but I hope I'll be able to put something together before the track day. Yeah, I'm going to gut the interior completely, run one seat and nothing else at all. 1/4 tank of gas at the maximum. 
Nitrous is an idea that has been rattling around in my head, but I don't think I'm going to do it. I don't think that NOS is cheating, on the contrary, I think it's wonderful if your motor can handle it. I don't want to budget the money for it right now though, because I'd like to have a completely built platform before I add the NOS. Also, I'd have to dramatically retune the engine. The oxygen addition to the engine under nitrous spray alters the A/F balance. I doubt that my SAFC-II could handle it. I'm already stretching the limits of SAFC-II with 15psi on 550cc injectors, with Q45 MAF. 
Right now I'm finished the external coil conversion. I'm simply removing the speed sensor for the track to eliminate speed limiter. I'll know how fast I'm going at the end of the run anyways.
Well, with 400whp, a race clutch, and slicks, I might be able to do it. Time to make it happen!


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## BoostedSE (Jun 26, 2005)

Lots to reply to, i'll start futherest down?
Are you running 400whp with only a SAFC for tuning?? I would call that risky.

Yoko AO32rs are race/auto-x tires horrible for drag racing. Stiff sidewall tires dont stretch to give more grip on takeoff, DRAG RADIALS do. If your on a budget maye 555s?

Add subframe bushings to your list, they help eliminate wheelhop, so do trans mounts.

2nd the dyno tune, and if you 5 lug there are a few ford wheels you can score cheap like 01+ mustang 16x7.5 a great upgrade for not much jack.


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## Kelso (Apr 29, 2003)

lets think about this for a minute... the engine runs on gasoline and air. extra air will boost power(point being intake systems/forced induction). what is nitrous? nitrogen and oxygen.it is air
so adding nitrous is just another form of forced induction to be used at the perfect time, and used quite cheaply too.just a few hundred dollars for however much horsepower you want from the kit. nitrous is great when used the right way.

you might want to get new rims or borrow some if you can and get slicks or something like the new BFgoodrich street slicks. my bro bought some but hasnt gotten his car on the road yet so i cant say if they truly are worth the cash.
since your ordering a good clutch and borrowing suspension, there isnt too many other options besides lightening, adding nitrous, better wheels/tires...i would suggest a lightweight flywheel to go with the clutch too, if its affordable

and have some faith in your car! :cheers:


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## Nismo14-180 (Mar 31, 2004)

bridrive55 said:


> I don't know if I can get a set of 16x8 rims that cheap.


Really, I can find them all day long, there used though. But I never really care about if there used or not. Im not going for a show car here. 



BoostedSE said:


> Yoko AO32rs are race/auto-x tires horrible for drag racing.


I autocross and drift with these. I didnt know if they may be good for drag racing.


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## bridrive55 (Aug 26, 2004)

Nismo14-180 said:


> Really, I can find them all day long, there used though. But I never really care about if there used or not. Im not going for a show car here.
> I autocross and drift with these. I didnt know if they may be good for drag racing.


Find me a set of rims in 4x114.3 offset and I buy them. I don't want to borrow Dan's slicks for 2 reasons: A) He's the guy that started this challenge, and it would be retarded if I could only lay down a good pass with his parts. B) I want to make this run with all my own parts, no borrowed stuff.
With that in mind, I need to do my own suspension and get my own set of slicks. 16" would be perfect, but I'm looking for cheap ass used stuff, not 2001 Mustang rims. I can find tires used by muscle car and hot rod guys, but they're never 4x114.3. The Z32 hub conversion is useless because I'd need 4 rims and all new brakes. So I'm left with 4x114.3 rims, wide enough to hold slicks. I can get the tires for cheap, I just need to find the rims.
As for the tires, I will be running nothing but real drag slicks. No Yokohama's, nothing with any tread at all. 
Well, I've pretty much got in mind what I'm going to do, I just need to solve the rims variable. Once again, I'm just looking for 2 rear rims with offset that I can put slicks on.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

i hate when people say that "nitrous is cheating". those are the people that have no idea that nitrous takes tuning to make the engine reliable and safe. 

i think the serious weight reduction is like a waste of time. dont go with more weight reduction than the guy with the sr has. its just ammo for him if you get close to his time. go with some slicks, a clutch that can handle boost and tune the hell out of your setup for a COUPLE runs at high boost. you only have to put down *ONE* good time, not several. mickey thompson has some nice slicks out there at about 100 bucks a tire. i used them at the track a couple weekends ago and ran a 14.1 with a 1.9 60' spraying right out of the hole. they dont spin whatsoever once they are heated up. this dude in an s14 that was at the track at the same time as me put down a 13.2 at 110 mph with his ka-t and it was 105 degrees out. you can certainly get into the low 12's with a good tune and extra boost. the only other real thing you need right now is LOTS of practice launching. launchin with slicks is much different than with street tires. dont get all ready to go and blow it with a shitty launch. good luck.


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## thedaddies (Sep 29, 2003)

550cc injectors will be at 100% duty cycle at 350 rwhp. So I wouldn't expect to have any more power than that to play with for your times.

I would imagine if you can pull everything off correctly you should be able to pull low 12's. What kind of 60' was he running to run his 11.99? i would imagine you will need something in the 1.7-1.9 60' to pull off what your'e looking for.

His GT28RS maxes out right around the same too (350 hp) so you'll be playing with about the same power he was. Without knowing your trim specs for your T4 I would imagine you should get pretty decent spool as well because of the larger displacement than his SR20.

I second the subframe spacers, without those you'll be hopping and skipping through la la land before you'll pull the 60' you need.=)


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## BoostedSE (Jun 26, 2005)

Nismo14-180 said:


> Really, I can find them all day long, there used though. But I never really care about if there used or not. Im not going for a show car here.
> 
> 
> 
> I autocross and drift with these. I didnt know if they may be good for drag racing.


You drift on A032rs? I need a job where you work you must be rich


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## Nismo14-180 (Mar 31, 2004)

BoostedSE said:


> You drift on A032rs? I need a job where you work you must be rich


Toyota dealership. and I only use them for autocross/drift days, any other time Im using either Sumitomo Srixon4's or Yokohama Avid H4s/V4s.

Side projects help with the cash flow too. :thumbup:


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## Bluehydro8 (Apr 1, 2005)

To get off the whole NOS thing. Using Nitrous is a matter of pride, because if you use it, his is immediatly going to say "yeah you beat my time but you needed Nos to do it". about the whole tire thing how about using some honda civic drag tires, they come cheap and provide good traction. If you really want to spend money though you might want to go the hoosier route http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...artnum=445ZR6R3S04&vehicleSearch=true&index=0


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## Kelso (Apr 29, 2003)

well his buddy had to do it with an SR and slicks...nitrous is the best bang for the buck. if he had lots of cash or lots of time to beat the 11.9 then id say to do more tuning but he is on a cash and time limit.nitrous is gonna get the job done if anything will. the only pride he has to deal with is getting into the 11's and throwing it in someones face, or not and getting that rubbed in his face.


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## Bluehydro8 (Apr 1, 2005)

Kelso said:


> well his buddy had to do it with an SR and slicks...nitrous is the best bang for the buck. if he had lots of cash or lots of time to beat the 11.9 then id say to do more tuning but he is on a cash and time limit.nitrous is gonna get the job done if anything will. the only pride he has to deal with is getting into the 11's and throwing it in someones face, or not and getting that rubbed in his face.


Kelso, your not thinking about the long run. It is easy to say that adding Nos is the best possible route because it isn't your car. NOS Burns thousands of degrees hotter than 93 octane gas and with time and proper tunning it can be made to run semi-safe. He doesn't have the time and money for proper NOS tunnig......Yes NOS needs tunnig. I would simply hate to find out he blew him engine trying to win some stupid bet. if it where your car.....would you really put a 100shot of NOS in youf car? Because thats how much its probably going to take.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

Bluehydro8 said:


> Kelso, your not thinking about the long run. It is easy to say that adding Nos is the best possible route because it isn't your car. NOS Burns thousands of degrees hotter than 93 octane gas and with time and proper tunning it can be made to run semi-safe. He doesn't have the time and money for proper NOS tunnig......Yes NOS needs tunnig. I would simply hate to find out he blew him engine trying to win some stupid bet. if it where your car.....would you really put a 100shot of NOS in youf car? Because thats how much its probably going to take.


nitrous doesnt run thousands of degrees hotter. its impossible. nitrous by design will actually _cool_ the cylinder. yes nitrous needs tuning, but its not as bad or as difficult as you may have been led to beleive.


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## bridrive55 (Aug 26, 2004)

AsleepAltima said:


> nitrous doesnt run thousands of degrees hotter. its impossible. nitrous by design will actually _cool_ the cylinder. yes nitrous needs tuning, but its not as bad or as difficult as you may have been led to beleive.


Absolutely correct! Nitrous oxide catabolizes at the high heat inside the engine's combustion chamber, separating into oxygen and nitrogen. This reaction is incredibly endothermic, cooling the air/fuel mixture significantly.
Well, I really appreciate all the help guys. I definitely aim for low 12's. The guy with the SR (his name is Dan, folks around here call him Nissan Dan) ran the 11.99 with slicks and an open diff on a built SR. At the time, he was running 550cc injectors, stand alone tuning, and the GT28RS turbo. That's stupidly fast for such an underengineered setup, especially with the open diff (WTF). Of course, now his setup is completely different. He swapped in a Kaaz 2 way LSD, 760cc injectors, and a 2871. Ouch.
Anyways, 11.99 is the time to beat. I'd be extremely happy with 12.5. Considering that it's probably impossible to exceed the 350whp mark with my current setup anyways, I'll keep the 550cc injectors. I would need better management to run larger injectors anyways. 
Clutch, slicks, and subframe bushings it is. 
AsleepAltima, you mentioned the launch strategy is different with slicks. What do you think I should keep in mind when trying to get the best launch?


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## bridrive55 (Aug 26, 2004)

thedaddies said:


> Without knowing your trim specs for your T4...


It's a .70A/R T3/T04E. I think I'll run my 15psi WG spring...


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

bridrive55 said:


> AsleepAltima, you mentioned the launch strategy is different with slicks. What do you think I should keep in mind when trying to get the best launch?


well... theres gonna be a significant difference with me being fwd and you being rwd... but im thinking if you have heated the tires properly for that run, you should be ok. the difference in launching, at least with my setup on regular tires, is that i have to feather the clutch to get out of the hole as fast as i can without spinning. then once i have enough traction i can go full throttle. with the slicks however, i can launch between 4500 and 5000 rpms. had i been a little more ballsy, i could have launced at about 5500-6000 rpms. its nothing but grab with the slicks. you need to get a couple runs at the track with slicks and find that magic number. it matters a lot also as to how much you heat up the tires. i did a 30 second burnout in the water box and it was probably about as good as it was going to get. it netted me a 1.9 60' so i was pretty happy. this was on m/t slicks btw at 12 psi.


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## bridrive55 (Aug 26, 2004)

AsleepAltima said:


> ...it netted me a 1.9 60' so i was pretty happy. this was on m/t slicks btw at 12 psi.


That's pretty sweet! I never knew your car was so fast. What's your KA setup? I should probably know that by now, but I've never wandered into the Altima section... I sold my Alti.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

bridrive55 said:


> That's pretty sweet! I never knew your car was so fast. What's your KA setup? I should probably know that by now, but I've never wandered into the Altima section... I sold my Alti.


its probably good for mid 13's when its not 105+ outside, lol. ive got a 2000 engine with a 2000 tranny along with the usual bolt ons and a 60mm tb port matched to the intake manifold. msd digital 6+ with msd wires and coil along with a 75 shot nx kit. its all dialed in pretty well i think... i ran a 14.1 about a month ago in the heat(over 100+). going back in september for a better time.


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## BoostedSE (Jun 26, 2005)

bridrive55 said:


> At the time, he was running 550cc injectors, stand alone tuning, and the GT28RS turbo. That's stupidly fast for such an underengineered setup, especially with the open diff (WTF).


2 points 1. Open diff on a drag strip doesnt matter, many hondas run fast times with open diffs, the improvement just wont be there for strait line.

2. I guess i dont see why 550s and a GT turbo + STANDALONE is an underengineered setup? Care to fill me in?


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

BoostedSE said:


> 2 points 1. Open diff on a drag strip doesnt matter, many hondas run fast times with open diffs, the improvement just wont be there for strait line.


well... while what youre saying might be true, theres still the chance of peg legging and not getting all of your power to the ground. most cars will use both wheels in a straight line, but if one breaks loose from the other, it will cost some time.


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## slammed91-240 (Jun 4, 2005)

well i know it is hell for me to hook up on a stock motor with lsd....thats after heating up some 205/40/17 with half contact on ground because of camber.....many times both my tires dont catch only one will pull so i think my lsd could be wearing out but i dunno, any guys got any suggestions on how to get my stock 91 240 into the 9's (1/8) without boosting or nos, i wanna get the single digits before i do anything taht could seriously tear something up...bridrive i think that if you could deal with full time posi you could weld your gears in the rear end...either that or have another rear end waiting


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## Kelso (Apr 29, 2003)

how does a lsd not help ? an open differential will leave one wheel spinning and the other sitting....only one wheel getting the power to the ground drastically fucking your launch. i mean if he did a rolling start race on the street, no big deal but an lsd would definately help in the strip.

and no i wouldnt put a 100 shot on my car, if i was going to use nitrous i would not go over 75, i really would prefer more like a 55 shot or maybe a sneaky pete 30 shot if anything. although if i were doing a challange, id take the 75 shot.you obviously dont know anything about nitrous though and bri already corrected you. dont forget, nitrous is only a few hundred dollars and the size of the bottle is not the size of the shot as many idiots are led to believe. im pretty sure at the store in tampa, a NOS kit is about 250 or so. so for 250 dollars you can get say 75 horses,and your right...im not thinking about the long run, im thinking about how he can get into the 11's now, not next year.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

Kelso said:


> how does a lsd not help ? an open differential will leave one wheel spinning and the other sitting....only one wheel getting the power to the ground drastically fucking your launch. i mean if he did a rolling start race on the street, no big deal but an lsd would definately help in the strip.
> 
> and no i wouldnt put a 100 shot on my car, if i was going to use nitrous i would not go over 75, i really would prefer more like a 55 shot or maybe a sneaky pete 30 shot if anything. although if i were doing a challange, id take the 75 shot.you obviously dont know anything about nitrous though and bri already corrected you. dont forget, nitrous is only a few hundred dollars and the size of the bottle is not the size of the shot as many idiots are led to believe. im pretty sure at the store in tampa, a NOS kit is about 250 or so. so for 250 dollars you can get say 75 horses,and your right...im not thinking about the long run, im thinking about how he can get into the 11's now, not next year.


the average wet kit will run you about 400-600 dollars. a dry kit about half of that. i dont know what the safe max shot is on a dry kit, but i wouldnt risk going too big even for just one night.


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## bridrive55 (Aug 26, 2004)

BoostedSE said:


> I guess i dont see why 550s and a GT turbo + STANDALONE is an underengineered setup? Care to fill me in?


550's and a GT turbo (GT28RS) is definitely underengineered for a fully built SR20DET. And I mean fully built. Valves, valvesprings, cams, and the usual pistons, rods, metal head gasket, and bearings. You can run 550's and a GT28RS on stock SR20DET internals. He switched to 760cc's and 2871 ball bearing to use the potential of the motor. 760cc's and a 2871 aren't underengineered for a fully built SR, but GT28RS and 550cc's is. That's what I meant. You just don't drop $5,000 on a build to use such a thin setup.
And he didn't use standalone until he switched to 760cc's.


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## BoostedSE (Jun 26, 2005)

Bridrive: I guess i missed the fully built part, plus not going standalone till later.

As for the open diff, in a straight line on a launch since the 240 has equal length driveshafts resistance will be the same and both should light up. LSDs help around corners not in strait lines.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

BoostedSE said:


> As for the open diff, in a straight line on a launch since the 240 has equal length driveshafts resistance will be the same and both should light up. LSDs help around corners not in strait lines.


your thinking is just a bit flawed... in turns, lsd is good because it lets the tires turn at different speeds. thats all. in straight lines, you need lsd to give equal power to the wheels for a consistant launch with the most possible traction. once youre going down the road its not so important. but at that launch - its everything.


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## afroeman (Oct 12, 2004)

AsleepAltima said:


> your thinking is just a bit flawed... in turns, lsd is good because it lets the tires turn at different speeds. thats all. in straight lines, you need lsd to give equal power to the wheels for a consistant launch with the most possible traction. once youre going down the road its not so important. but at that launch - its everything.


Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. LSD doesn't make the wheels turn at different speeds, it makes both wheels turn at the same speed. That's why you use it for drift and that's why you use it for drag. If you have one wheel turning faster than another then the car is going to pull in the direction of the wheel that is turning faster. NOT GOOD FOR DRAG!! That's why LSD turns the wheels at the same speed. If both wheels are turning at the same speed, then the car is not going to pull anywhere except forward. That's the purpose of LSD. It is intended for Drag use for that very reason.


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## Kelso (Apr 29, 2003)

i have not upgraded my differential and it is an open differential. i have launched my car in straight lines and its a one wheel wonder. ive got single tire marks and my friend to vouch for that.equal length driveshafts wont matter because the differential is only pushing power to one wheel....

and to what afroeman said, your right but(kind of nitpicking i know) different differentials will do different things to the tires. most of the time they only lock up in certain situations....otherwise you can only drive in the rain like one muscle car guy i know. since his tires wouldnt slip at all in corners, he couldnt do anything but go straight unless it rained. not saying you were wrong, just that theres other things that can happen or whatever


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

afroeman said:


> Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. LSD doesn't make the wheels turn at different speeds, it makes both wheels turn at the same speed. That's why you use it for drift and that's why you use it for drag. If you have one wheel turning faster than another then the car is going to pull in the direction of the wheel that is turning faster. NOT GOOD FOR DRAG!! That's why LSD turns the wheels at the same speed. If both wheels are turning at the same speed, then the car is not going to pull anywhere except forward. That's the purpose of LSD. It is intended for Drag use for that very reason.


no you whoa whoa whoa. do you even know why lsd was created? to have both wheels have equal power in a straight line and to ensure equal power to both wheels in a low traction situation. they *turn at different speeds* on purpose to go _around corners_. thats why its called *LIMITED SLIP DIFFERENTIAL*. so the tires will turn different speeds around corners specifically. limited slip refers to the rear end clutch packs _slipping_ so the tires can turn at different speeds thereby eliminating (for the most part) tire scrub and the slide factor that lsd creates on wet corners. lsd (and the brand name posi-traction) was developed so if one tire lost traction, the power wouldnt be wasted on that wheel and instead power would be sent to the wheel that still had traction. the added benefit was 50% more traction _in a straight line._ dont come in here treating me like im stupid when youre too lazy to do some simple research first. read for yourself.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential1.htm


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

if you are going cheap then you might as well just buy an extra open diff and weld it up. You dont turn corners in drag.

To go 11's you need three basic things.
More fuel
More air
Traction.

Cheapest way i can see is NOS, locked diff and slicks. If NOS is cheating then I dont think you have enough money for 11's.


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## bakimono (Aug 10, 2005)

GUT THAT BEAST! my coupe is on a diet and so far its lost about 250-300 pounds. as we all know, every 100 pounds you lose is roughly a tenth of a second off of your 1/4 time. youre right on the nitrous though. with the time and money constraints i dont think there is any other way......maybe 12s without nitrous but 11s is really really pushing it. as for the safety of nitrous, there are quite a few articles written these days about nitrous and its safety. most of these articles say something like, the amount of power gained from the nitrous should not exceed 50% of your engines stock output. so for a KA, that would be roughly 75hp (155hp stock if im not mistaken) They say that as long as youve got the air and fuel mix correct and stay under 50%, nitrous is totally safe and as other members are saying, the best bang for the buck. 

as for nitrous being cheating, i see how some people see it that way. its fun to win relying solely on the engine and not something you spray into it, but its pretty impressive that some people who run it, spray it day in and day out and nothing bad ever happens because they know what theyre doing. i respect these guys very much. however i dont respect some kid who puts a 150 shot in his car and bullys people around and thinks hes cool and then wonders why his engine blows up. these are the people who give nitrous a bad name. like it or not, for this situation nitrous is the only way to get it done.

man, i wish some other guys in my town had some 240s with 700 some odd cc injectors. even if they were assholes or were always messing with me. we're still stuck in the fast and the furious days here in iowa. im talking the first one. people arent even 2 fast or 2 furious yet.


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## afroeman (Oct 12, 2004)

bakimono said:


> GUT THAT BEAST! my coupe is on a diet and so far its lost about 250-300 pounds. as we all know, every 100 pounds you lose is roughly a tenth of a second off of your 1/4 time. youre right on the nitrous though. with the time and money constraints i dont think there is any other way......maybe 12s without nitrous but 11s is really really pushing it. as for the safety of nitrous, there are quite a few articles written these days about nitrous and its safety. most of these articles say something like, the amount of power gained from the nitrous should not exceed 50% of your engines stock output. so for a KA, that would be roughly 75hp (155hp stock if im not mistaken) They say that as long as youve got the air and fuel mix correct and stay under 50%, nitrous is totally safe and as other members are saying, the best bang for the buck.
> 
> as for nitrous being cheating, i see how some people see it that way. its fun to win relying solely on the engine and not something you spray into it, but its pretty impressive that some people who run it, spray it day in and day out and nothing bad ever happens because they know what theyre doing. i respect these guys very much. however i dont respect some kid who puts a 150 shot in his car and bullys people around and thinks hes cool and then wonders why his engine blows up. these are the people who give nitrous a bad name. like it or not, for this situation nitrous is the only way to get it done.
> 
> man, i wish some other guys in my town had some 240s with 700 some odd cc injectors. even if they were assholes or were always messing with me. we're still stuck in the fast and the furious days here in iowa. im talking the first one. people arent even 2 fast or 2 furious yet.


I agree with the nitrous cheater view. I think that if it's used for track, and it's used with a purpose and correctly, I think that nitrous is great. It's simply another way to add power to your car to cut your times down. But you're right about kids throwin it on there to go along with their intake, and exhaust, and then thinks he's cool for doing it. I think that nitrous is going to be the only way that I can see you getting into the 11's.

As for Iowa... HOLY GOD!!!!! Still in the FIRST Fast and Furious... You guys are screwed!! Get out of there quick bro. I hear that rice can be contagious if it's not treated properly. Here in the East part of the country of Texas, we are still stuck in 2 Fast 2 Furious, and everyone still thinks they're cool. Everyone keeps telling me to put some rice stickers on the side of my coupe, and a GT Wing.. Some guy even told me he would buy me an APC Aluminum Wing since I didn't have the money! It's pretty freakin sad down here too.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

i dont see nitrous as cheating whatsoever. its takes knowledge and tuning to be done right. only people that have been beaten by a n2o'd car think its cheating...


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## bakimono (Aug 10, 2005)

yeah its SUPER friggin whack around here. theres a road called university ave. where all the "tuners" hang out. 90% of the cars up there are riced out cars that were cool pre-y2k. at least they were cool around here around that time. civics, integras, accords, you know stuff like that. but more than anything, there are soooo many ugly, gawdy, stupid, goofy looking, riced out, retarded cavaliers here, you would not believe it. gugh....makes me feel like an elephant puked on me every time i come home from cruising around town for a bit. And as my location indicates, i live in a town (and very possibly a state) full of haters. So everywhere you go all you hear about is how much cooler billy's civic is than sally's accord. Or how Brett should have bought his dvd/tv system from wal-mart instead of ebay because its probably cheaper there. Worst of all, everyone around here has been talking about building a 240 with an s13 front end, and to my knowledge, i'm the only person around that actually followed through. so thbbbb on everyone around here. i hope you all read this so you have something ELSE to hate on because i know youre getting tired of talking about timmys altezza tails. 

I am actually getting out of here sometime in the next year. My dad is going to let me stay at his house in Reno NV for a few months until i get on my feet out there. it has to be better out there. i know this because he's calling me every couple of days and every time i talk to him hes talking about cars that he saw and the other day i actually heard my own father say the letters- J-D- and M. after that i started telling him he should look into getting a skyline from motorex. RENO OR BUST PUNKS!! :thumbup:

(sorry that post was sort of long and pointless) good luck with the challenge though. when is it supposed to all take place?


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

AsleepAltima said:


> i dont see nitrous as cheating whatsoever. its takes knowledge and tuning to be done right. only people that have been beaten by a n2o'd car think its cheating...


Over here for a street car to have a credible quarter time it has to be done on street tyres without nos. Simply because the term "street" means only street legal and reliable. ANyone can put a 100 shot in and run a good time... once.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

Joel said:


> Over here for a street car to have a credible quarter time it has to be done on street tyres without nos. Simply because the term "street" means only street legal and reliable. ANyone can put a 100 shot in and run a good time... once.


yeah right, lol. you run what you brung, i dont care where youre at. i took a dude in arkansas during my trip to tennessee. did it matter that i sprayed? of course not. dude got beat, thats all that matters. ive been running a 75 shot for the last 2 years and have blown 2 plugs. thats it. the first one was my fault, the second was from running at the track in 108 degree weather. saying running on nitrous is cheating is flat out retarded. no offense.


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## Bluehydro8 (Apr 1, 2005)

AsleepAltima said:


> yeah right, lol. you run what you brung, i dont care where youre at. i took a dude in arkansas during my trip to tennessee. did it matter that i sprayed? of course not. dude got beat, thats all that matters. ive been running a 75 shot for the last 2 years and have blown 2 plugs. thats it. the first one was my fault, the second was from running at the track in 108 degree weather. saying running on nitrous is cheating is flat out retarded. no offense.


I kinda agree that nos is not cheating but using it is not the smartest thing you could do. I know Nos by itself is infact cold but the heat produced by the explosion is infact higher than regular fuel. It's been estimated that for every 50 shot, you shave about 5,000 miles off the life of your car. I have seen impressive numbers pruduced by Nos but those race engine don't last much more than 20,000 miles! Just my opinion, nobody get hurt lol


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## Nismo14-180 (Mar 31, 2004)

AsleepAltima said:


> i took a dude in arkansas during my trip to tennessee.


Why in the hell would you come here?


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

Nismo14-180 said:


> Why in the hell would you come here?


had to go thru little rock on my way to nashville on the 40.


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## Nismo14-180 (Mar 31, 2004)

I meant why would you wanna come to Nashville? There isnst shit to do here except sit on a poarch and drink some sweet tea.


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## Asleep (Jan 19, 2003)

Nismo14-180 said:


> I meant why would you wanna come to Nashville? There isnst shit to do here except sit on a poarch and drink some sweet tea.


i love tennessee. i was stationed at ft.campbell and made a lot of friends that were non military and at the time, my grandma lived in nashvegas. i was going to go and visit her for christmas. ive been back to tn 3 times in the last 5 years. pretty good considering its over 1500 miles one way.


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