# B13 ST rear bar, OEM front?



## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

I have been running both front and rear ST bars on a B13 with Tokico springs (slightly stiffer than Eibach) and AGX's.

I find the car to be very neutral, easily persuadable into oversteer, with understeer when you overcook a corner. In fact, i am quite happy with the balance.

What I want to reduce is corner exit wheel spin, and I know that going back to the OEM bar would help keep both fronts planted a bit better.

What I don't want to do is to turn the car into an oversteering monstrocity.

Can someone give me some detailed feed back about the handling after switching back to the OEM front bar? Something a bit less inane than "Like man it was like night and day."

Thanks so much.

G


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

I swapped the ST front bar for the OEM bar today.

Just in driving around, there is a bit less inside wheel spin, front appears to be a bit more planted.

If you want to talk trailing throttle oversteer - holy crap! This thing wants to come around. I'm going to have to see how predictable it is.

I think a higher front spring rate would be in order to help balance the car.

Anyone else with insight?

G


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

Ok, here's the detail.

_Suspension Techniques (ST) front bar:_

Mounts directly to front control arm via a sadwiched bushing as opposed to a traditional link. This bar is solid, with a different shape than OEM which artificially stiffens the front end such that the bar contributes to front spring rate. Because of the way the bar mounts with respect to the control arms, the arc the bar does not coincide with the arc of the control arm, thus inducing a suspension bind. This results in quite a stiff ride up front. AGX's on 2 feel underdamped, and even on 3 do not have adequate rebound.

_Factory OEM front bar:_

Mounts above the control arm via a traditional link, is convoluted in shape, with many "crushed" areas (it is hollow) for clearance. This bar is CONSIDERABLY softer than the ST bar.

Ride quality has improved significantly (disappointingly), leading me to believe maybe I _can_ run stiffer spring rates without punishing my kidneys. The car "feels" better.

_Handling Difference:_

My initial setup (ST bars):

- AGX: 3/7
- Tire pressure: 42/34
- Camber: -2.2°/-1°
- Toe: +1/8"/0"
- Front bar bushings snug, rear bar bushings tight

As stated above, the car was very neutral to drive with the ST bars, with oversteer easily persuadable. Steering response was somewhat numb - responsive, but you felt detatched.

Changing the front ST bar out, I upped to rear tire pressure and dropped the rear struts one click in an attempt to reduce the oversteer. By the end of the day, I was running my usual tire pressures, but the struts went to 2/6 (that, and it was a slippery course).

The car is much more responsive, and a bit more playful. It feels as though the ST bar was a bit dicey - too much on the edge of traction, whereas the OEM bar seems a bit more forgiving. you can certainly get on the gas sooner and harder with less wheelspin (unless you drop first). The steering inputs can be a bit more abrupt and the car just follows.

I'm not too happy about losing camber due to body roll, as the MacStrut really isn't a good friend there. I'll have to see what the tradeoff is, camber loss, vs. roll resistance.

At this point I'm not sure if it is quicker, but I'll have to get used to it and see how it goes.

Again, anyone else with some input??


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## 98sr20ve (Oct 6, 2002)

I thought the B13 front bar was solid not hollow. Is that only on the NX perhaps.


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## brucek2 (Sep 25, 2002)

How much did you pay for the ST bars? I want a pair.


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

The OEM bar is very definately hollow. You can tell by the weight as well as the way it was crush bent to clear everything. I have not seen an NX bar to comment on the difference (if any).

Mind you, this is a Sentra XE, not an SE-R.

I think I paid around $229 for the Suspension Techniques set. This was in 2001, from www.shox.com. I think just the rear bar would be best for autocross, but for street and road race I'd go with the pair.

After driving the car now for over a week, I'm quite liking the OEM front bar. It's taken some re-learning, but it's pretty fun to drive now that I am more used to it.

I have another race on Thusday, so I'll see what it's like then.


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## Skinny G (May 9, 2002)

Latest assessment of the ST rear bar and OEM front bar: Very nice.

Tonight I ran approximately -3° camber up front, -1° camber rear. 1/8" toe out front and 0 toe rear, AGX's set at 3/7 with 42psi front and 33 psi rear. Suspension also has front and rear stb, ES bushings, 13x7 wheels and Toyo RA-1's.

The car handled very very well. Extremely tossable, and (although loose), very predictable and recoverable. Teh back was dancing sweetly. I could man-handle the car and it would keep going. 

Except for punting a cone, I was 0.2s away from a BSP Corvette, and and 2s behind a multi-time hill climb champion MGB GT V8 on slicks and (huge mother-of-god) wings.

I would say this setup can be a handful for an inexperienced driver, but very very rewarding on course. Much much more fun than before. 

Two thumbs up for rear ST sway bars!

Greg Wellwood


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## johnand (Apr 30, 2002)

If you want a little more bar in front, that is not quite the ST bar, get an SE-R front bar. It mounts the exact same as your XE bar, but is SOLID vs. hollow. Made a noticable difference on my SE.

I think most auto-x'ers prefer the stock front bar w/ ST rear bar.

For the ultimate in "tweakability", the Progress bars seem to be the ticket.


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