# Fire, but no fuel?



## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

*Need some help with roommates Stanza*


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## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

I don't know anything about Nissans, but my roommate who owns one doesn't know anything about cars at all.

He has an '89 Stanza that won't start. He drove it to work, but left the lights on so the battery went dead.

I went to jumpstart it for him, but it won't fire. It cranks over just fine and it's getting spark from BOTH coils, but it won't start so I'm guessing that maybe it's a lack of fuel *(yes, the tank is full)*.

Here's what's really confusing me; the lights won't come on at all either. The turns signals and brake lights work, but the head and taillights don't. What could be causing that?? *(yes, I checked all the fuses)*. If it's cranking over easily and getting spark, I would guess that it has enough juice to at least turn the headlights on a little, but they don't come on AT ALL.

If MY car was getting spark, but no fuel, I would guess that maybe the ECU is having some sort of trouble, but I don't even know where it is in this car, much less how to check it.

Any advice is appreciated.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

you checked the normal fuses but how about the fusible links?? could have clown a link or two. only thing i can think of is a wire disconnected somewhere or bad ground. Kind of weird that it would happen that quickly so i'd think fusible link. let us know what happens


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

I would inspect the fusible links as well as the fuses in the main block under the hood. Hopefully that should be where the problem is.

Troy


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## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

Gsolo said:


> you checked the normal fuses but how about the fusible links?? could have clown a link or two. only thing i can think of is a wire disconnected somewhere or bad ground. Kind of weird that it would happen that quickly so i'd think fusible link. let us know what happens


Do you know where the fusible links are in this car? I don't have a manual for it or anything and I'm not sure where to check. 
- I should clarify that I did check on the postive battery cable near the clamp, and didn't see one, but I know that sometimes fusible links are hidden elsewhere.

Also, where is the ECU (or ECM)?? The ECU in my Corrado is hard to miss because it's about the size of a 5.5" disk drive, but I don't see anything like it in his car.

I really hate to admit this, but I'm afraid I screwed something up because it was dark so I didn't notice that I had the polarity on the jumper cables backwards at first. The polarity was reversed for a good 20-30 seconds before I realized it. I'm pretty sure ECU's aren't protected against this, but that's what fuses and fusible links are for, right? RIGHT??!


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

I noticed this was a posted thread in both the General and the Stanza sections so I merged the two. Please in the future, only post one thread for a single topic 

Troy


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## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

KA24Tech said:


> I noticed this was a posted thread in both the General and the Stanza sections so I merged the two. Please in the future, only post one thread for a single topic
> 
> Troy


Thanks. I was looking for the original post, but couldn't find it so I made another one.


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## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

KA24Tech said:


> I would inspect the fusible links as well as the fuses in the main block under the hood. Hopefully that should be where the problem is.
> 
> Troy


Does anyone have a diagram for the wiring harness under the hood? I need to find where the fusible links are.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

umm....trying to remmeber under the hood of a stanza i think the fusible link box is near the drivers side shock tower, little black box rectangular. Has 4 fusible links in it i think. the cover is usually a b*tch to get off, and i mean that. And the ECU is under the drivers seat in the stanza wagon, not sure about the sedan.


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## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

Gsolo said:


> umm....trying to remmeber under the hood of a stanza i think the fusible link box is near the drivers side shock tower, little black box rectangular. Has 4 fusible links in it i think. the cover is usually a b*tch to get off, and i mean that. And the ECU is under the drivers seat in the stanza wagon, not sure about the sedan.


I'll go take a look. He went ahead and had the car towed to a shop, but I'm hoping I can save him some money, if possible, by fixing it before they get to it when the shop opens tomorrow. Especially considering that I'm still afraid it's my fault that it's screwed up.

Hey, I'm not too far from Wenatchee if you want to swing by and help. I think it's only an 8 hour drive or so. :thumbup: 

(I'm in Bellingham on the other side of the mountains)


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

StanzaMoManza said:


> I'll go take a look. He went ahead and had the car towed to a shop, but I'm hoping I can save him some money, if possible, by fixing it before they get to it when the shop opens tomorrow. Especially considering that I'm still afraid it's my fault that it's screwed up.
> 
> Hey, I'm not too far from Wenatchee if you want to swing by and help. I think it's only an 8 hour drive or so. :thumbup:
> 
> (I'm in Bellingham on the other side of the mountains)


about 5 to 6 hours, but no gas money and very busy...sorry i like to help people in person but i've got to many projects going on here and getting ready for wedding and getting ready for moving in august. If you need more help though just ask here or email me...whatever works Good luck....

and if its not fusible links i can't think of much else except for a bad relay somewhere like an ECCS relay if it has it...i'll have to dig out a wiring diagram i suppose. I'll do it tonight after working on my dads kawasaki (figured i'd help him put it back together being fathers day and all)


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## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

Gsolo said:


> about 5 to 6 hours, but no gas money and very busy...sorry i like to help people in person but i've got to many projects going on here and getting ready for wedding and getting ready for moving in august. If you need more help though just ask here or email me...whatever works Good luck....
> 
> and if its not fusible links i can't think of much else except for a bad relay somewhere like an ECCS relay if it has it...i'll have to dig out a wiring diagram i suppose. I'll do it tonight after working on my dads kawasaki (figured i'd help him put it back together being fathers day and all)


Haha, no problem. I didn't really expect that you would want to come all the way over here.

I checked the fusible links and found that one of them had blown. I replaced it, which made the lights and the gauges work again, but the engine still doesn't fire. 

So I'm guessing it's either a relay or the ECU. I'm just praying to GOD that it's simply a relay, but I don't know how to check them either way, so it looks like the shop will have to take over from here. I'm assuming they'll have the neat little diagnostic tool that they can just plug into the harness somewhere.

Unless anyone has any more ideas.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

StanzaMoManza said:


> Haha, no problem. I didn't really expect that you would want to come all the way over here.
> 
> I checked the fusible links and found that one of them had blown. I replaced it, which made the lights and the gauges work again, but the engine still doesn't fire.
> 
> ...


actually there is no diagnostic tool to plug into on these cars  that would make things to simple. I've heard that these relays pop before the ECU does so hopefully....but you never know. if its the ecu let me know i might have an extra one but i'm not sure


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## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

Gsolo said:


> actually there is no diagnostic tool to plug into on these cars  that would make things to simple. I've heard that these relays pop before the ECU does so hopefully....but you never know. if its the ecu let me know i might have an extra one but i'm not sure


Here's an update: 

What the shop is telling me is that the fuel pump itself is bad. What's really weird is that they say that they were able to supply power to it and get the motor to spin, so the actual mechanical part of the pump is bad, not the electrical part. Now it seems like a pretty big coincidence that the pump happened to go bad not only the same day that the battery went dead, but at the same time the polarity was reversed on the jumper cables.

What's worse is that they're telling me that the in-tank fuel pump is very hard to find and costs $400. So it will be over $600 for parts and labor to replace it, and that doesn't even count the $110 they've already charged for diagnostics.

AND THEY CAN'T EVEN TELL ME FOR SURE IF IT WILL FIX IT!!

I asked them if they could tell me whether or not the injectors are even trying to fire (you should be able to hear them), and they couldn't tell me.

What they said they could do is hook it up to the injector service machine (which will cost another $50), which will bypass the fuel pump entirely and will tell us if the rest of the electrical system is working.

Also, this particular stanza for some reason doesn't have a fuel pump access panel, so they have to pull the fuel tank in order to change the pump.


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## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

By the way, could anyone tell me what the part # is for the fuel pump in an '89 Nissan Stanza and maybe offer some places online where I might find one?


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

$400 ouch....we paid $300 for ours  i might have a fuel pump if i can find it. We replaced it in our wagon thinking that the pump was bad but turned out it was a fusible link. If I can find the pump and if its the same for sedan then i think we can work something out for it.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

nevermind they aren't the same pumps...sorry.


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

I would get the car out of there and thank them for the help but decline the fix. The fuel injectors won't fire because of the lack of fuel pressure but I wouldn't worry about those at the moment.
The best thing to do is get a Haynes manual for it and then follow that for the repair.
The part no. I have found is 17042-62E00 and retails for $248.93. I am showing that Tacoma Nissan has two of them in stock with a discount on the price. You can call them at 888-473-6200 to verify that is the correct part number and the stock on hand.

Troy


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

KA24Tech said:


> I would get the car out of there and thank them for the help but decline the fix. The fuel injectors won't fire because of the lack of fuel pressure but I wouldn't worry about those at the moment.
> The best thing to do is get a Haynes manual for it and then follow that for the repair.
> The part no. I have found is 17042-62E00 and retails for $248.93. I am showing that Tacoma Nissan has two of them in stock with a discount on the price. You can call them at 888-473-6200 to verify that is the correct part number and the stock on hand.
> 
> Troy


umm...try part number 17042-D4560..about $330 from nissan dealer. the 62E00 is for 1990 Stanza and i wouldn't try to find out the hard way whether it fits or not....and i agree don't let the shop work on it anymore they sound like they're trying to screw more money out of you. A real mechanic would replace the fuel pump then go from there. If the injectors don't work after that then they'd be replaced....but i have a feeling the injectors should work but dont take my word for it cause somethigns work weird  but injectors should be fine if the engine wasn't running when polarity was crossed.


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## KA24Tech (Feb 2, 2004)

I got my part no. info from Partsvoice www.partsvoice.com .
That is why I told him to call to confirm the application and the quantiy.

Troy


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

KA24Tech said:


> I got my part no. info from Partsvoice www.partsvoice.com .
> That is why I told him to call to confirm the application and the quantiy.
> 
> Troy


got mine from Mitchell....so guess we'll see. Either of us could be wrong....knowing nissan both of us are probablly wrong


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## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

Gsolo said:


> got mine from Mitchell....so guess we'll see. Either of us could be wrong....knowing nissan both of us are probablly wrong


Well, if the fuel pump turns out to be the problem (which, in my opinion, is unlikely), then I'll probably just pull it out and get the actual part # off of it. Most likely there are either a couple of different options, depending on which month the car was built, or an updated version or something.

In further news, the car is now back in my driveway. When my roommate called the shop to tell them that he was going to have it picked up they told him that it was "all taken apart right now". It turns out that their definition of "taken apart" is a single little plastic, dome-shaped cover, the origin of which I have no idea. Regardless, they weren't happy to see it go.

I have narrowed down the problem though. I found the fuel pump relay and was able to determine that it is probably in working condition considering the fact that I can hear and feel it click when I turn the key to the 'on' position.

So the next step is to try to find an ECU that I can plug in and see if that will allow the car to run. Gsolo, you said you might have an extra one? I might need one, so if you could see if you can find it, and get me the part # off of it, I would appreciate it.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

StanzaMoManza said:


> Well, if the fuel pump turns out to be the problem (which, in my opinion, is unlikely), then I'll probably just pull it out and get the actual part # off of it. Most likely there are either a couple of different options, depending on which month the car was built, or an updated version or something.
> 
> In further news, the car is now back in my driveway. When my roommate called the shop to tell them that he was going to have it picked up they told him that it was "all taken apart right now". It turns out that their definition of "taken apart" is a single little plastic, dome-shaped cover, the origin of which I have no idea. Regardless, they weren't happy to see it go.
> 
> ...


if i dont' get back to you on that ecu by this time tomorrow then email me [email protected] i'm really busy and i might forget, but i dont' want to leave someone in the water so if you ahve to give me a swift kick in the ass reminder :thumbup:


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## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

I still haven't gotten this car started, but I think I might be at least a little closer.

I was able to determine that the fuel pump is in fact working, by disconnecting the line to the filter, then supplying powre to the pump. As I suspected it shot a large quantity of fuel out in a matter of seconds. Fuel pump is OK.

I was also able to determine that all of the relays are working by pulling them out slightly so that they were still connected, but I would have access to the terminals to use a circuit tester. All fuses and relays are OK.

What I haven't been able to determine is whether or not the ECU is working, or if the injectors are trying to fire. 

I tried to blink out the error codes on the ECU, but neither of the LED's would light up. 

I also tried to test for continuity on the injector wires, but I found that both wires on all 4 injectors had power even with the ignition off which just doesn't sound right to me.

So I guess I don't have any specific questions right now, but I'm still looking for advice or suggestions if anyone has any.


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

well i can't determine that my ecu's work, so best thing i can suggest for you is to find an ecu to try out. hit the junkyards, call em up and look....also try www.car-parts.com and try ebay


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## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

Gsolo said:


> well i can't determine that my ecu's work, so best thing i can suggest for you is to find an ecu to try out. hit the junkyards, call em up and look....also try www.car-parts.com and try ebay


Thanks for that link. I was able to use it to get a used ECU fairly locally for only $100 shipped. I installed it this morning and the car fired right up. Now I want to go back to the shop that charged me $110 to misdiagnose the problem and tell them to give me my money back.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

probably won't happen. I would sue them or something in a small claims court


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## Gsolo (Sep 11, 2003)

StanzaMoManza said:


> Thanks for that link. I was able to use it to get a used ECU fairly locally for only $100 shipped. I installed it this morning and the car fired right up. Now I want to go back to the shop that charged me $110 to misdiagnose the problem and tell them to give me my money back.



glad to hear you got it running ! although i feel bad that i didnt' have an ecu for you cause i only would have asked like $30. I doubt they would give your money back but yeah, small claims court might pursuade them to give some money back :thumbup: only if you think its worth the time and effort though


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

what was your final bill with them


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## StanzaMoManza (Jun 19, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> what was your final bill with them


It was only $110 or $120, whatever the diagnostic fee was. After I heard their diagnosis I took the car away from them because I figured they were either idiots or being dishonest. It was a good call, if I do say so myself.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

110 bucks wouldn't be enough. You would make like 5 dollars in the end after paying for court and everything like that. Screw them and picket in front of their place of business.


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