# Performance Wiring?



## zeno (Sep 17, 2002)

I posted this in the B14 section but I wanted everyone's input. Thanks.....

I was waiting for my girlfriend in the bookstore and decided to take a quick browse through the lastest edition of Super Street and noticed something I wanted to ask everyone. They were reviewing a new product that replaces all the engine electrical wiring to produce less resistance and more available electrical energy. Anyhow, they dynoed the product on a couple of cars and produced rather substantial results. On a new Maxima, they got around a 10+ hp gain through certain RPM ranges on the wiring alone. Other cars were not so dramatic (an S2000 only had about a 2 hp gain) but I believe the average was around 5 hp through the entire RRM spectrum. Additionally, the wiring was only about $100. Unfortunately, I could only skim through the article but I was wondering if anyone has ever heard of (or had experience w/) such a thing? Sorry such vague info. but any help would be nice. 5-15 hp for $100 certainly doesn't sound bad.


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## 200'side (May 24, 2002)

Im not sure, but it sounds similar to the Subaru grounding mod. Seems to have gone more unviersal now. I haven't seen the ad, im guessing thats what it is. Gives you a nice power gain and is fairly inexpensive as well. That's all I know.


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## 200SXSE (Jun 22, 2002)

Is that for real? Would be cool if it really worked.


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## nak1 (May 17, 2002)

200'side said:


> *Im not sure, but it sounds similar to the Subaru grounding mod. Seems to have gone more unviersal now. I haven't seen the ad, im guessing thats what it is. Gives you a nice power gain and is fairly inexpensive as well. That's all I know.  *


yeah... its just an upgraded ground package. I would assume it would work a little. Its taking any static off of your wires and thus allows a clean spark.


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## 200'side (May 24, 2002)

I wonder what is all involved. Shouldn't be difficult at all right?


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## Murph (Aug 8, 2002)

wow, this is EXACTLY like my post i put up last night in this same section that nobody has responded to.


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

*Performance Wiring*

Hmmmmmmmmm...Ok so you want to gain a couple of HP from the electronics system huh. 

Turn on your Air Conditioner while the car is on...notice what happens to the engine. Turn on all your lights, your speakers and so forth. More current will be diverted to each of these systems...meaning your car engine will actually be losing HP!!! And your car will consume more gas.!!!!

O.K. now what super street says is actually true. If you put in more longer thinner wires, then the Resistance of the wiring in your car will increase!!! Meaning the current travelling in the wires will be less and power used up by electrical systems will be less!!!!!!!! Meaning more power will be diverted to the engine rather than the electrical systems

The only downfall of this might occur if you have speakers and a good sound system....Remember you increase the resistance you get lower power! So all your electrical components in the car might not work at maximum efficiency. So your speakers might sound worse...I am not too sure about this but check on it before you put in these new wires.!!

You know...this reminds me of something. Stupid Vin Diesel in Fast and Furious always wanted a 10 second car. Taking off that gigantic speaker system, saving him the weight and electricity might have added at least a good 8hp to his car!!! That dumb ass! What kind of street racer is he??!! J/k!


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## dry (Oct 21, 2002)

I may be wrong but I think that a stereo system runs off of your battery not your Engine. Actually I'm 99 percent sure it does so I dont think you'll lose any horsepower in that department.


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

True True...the speakers do run from your batteries...but remember your alternator is recharging the batteries in your car. So that means there is a link between the alternator and your car battery...You might lose like .1hp ifyour stereo gets turned on...Not totally sure about that


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## dry (Oct 21, 2002)

maybe. maybe.


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## Joshb13sentra (May 13, 2002)

*Re: Performance Wiring*



UNISH25 said:


> *Hmmmmmmmmm...Ok so you want to gain a couple of HP from the electronics system huh.
> 
> 
> O.K. now what super street says is actually true. If you put in more longer thinner wires, then the Resistance of the wiring in your car will increase!!! Meaning the current travelling in the wires will be less and power used up by electrical systems will be less!!!!!!!! Meaning more power will be diverted to the engine rather than the electrical systems
> ...



I'm not so sure on this. Putting in thinner wires than stock and longer? You would start losing power, you ever run a high amp item off of a 22 gauge wire? The wire heats up much like a heating element, you won't divert the energy back to the engine, you'll possibly melt your wire and then when it grounds your screwed. Larger wires will help, less resistance = better flow= your car won't bog down.

When AC kicks on the reason your engine boggs down is from the pump kicking in which is run off of the crank pulley. 

Hope this helps
Josh


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

Josh you are totally right about that...!!!I even said in my previous post that I agreed to that. In reality the equation for Power goes like this...

O.K So why increase the Resistance??? 
Power=V^2/Resistance
By increasing the resistance in car wiring we decrease the current flow to the electrical system inside the car. Therefore decreasing power flow to a system!!! Proven by the equation...More power can be diverted to more important systems or less power can be consumed up. Remember POWER is POWER no matter what its measured in. Electrical Power gets converted into Mechanical at the alternator. If you want a All GO Vehicle then why waste electrical energy on something like a Stereo and Amp.

Now the Amp...
***In order for the Maximum Transfer or Power from Circuit A to Circuit B The output Resistance of A must match the input resistance of B!!! The output resistance of the amplifier, must be equal to the input resistance of the Speakers in order for the signal to be great! The Amp usually runs off an 8ohm output resistance. So do the speakers....The 10 guage or better wire you put in them is used to match that resistance as great as possible!. Thicker & shorter wires have less Resistance!!. 22 Gauge wire is thinner and has more resistance. And if you guys don't know 8 guage is a pretty thick wire. Some of the power lost in the 22 guage wire is dissipated as heat...Therefore you wouldn't be getting maximum power to the Amps that it requires!.

Here are some stupid facts about car Resistance...I grabbed from a website...about electrical resistance in wires.

* An atom consists of a nucleus and orbiting electrons. These electrons can create a flow of current, so the more free electrons there are, the more conducting capability that material has; thus copper is more conductive that iron. 

* Wires with wider diameter have more free electrons because the cross-section surface area is larger in proportion to the length, so the wider the wires are, the less reactive they would be. Resistance is proportional to the cross-section are of the wire given that the length and the material should be the same.

* Longer wires will cause an increase in resistance because the electrons have to travel past more atoms and collisions between the electrons and the atoms are more likely then in shorter wires. Resistance should also be proportional to the length of the wires.


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## Cougs (Dec 4, 2002)

The wiring that you are speaking of has been correctly identified as grounding wires...they are available from both Arospeed and from SunAuto (Hyperground System)...the SunAuto setup goes for about $100-$150...i also know that the Sun Auto system has an application for the Maxima with gains of 6 whp (Import Tuner Dec. 2002) and also for most 4 and 6 cylinder...any questions, visit the website www.sunautomobile.com

Any word on the Arospeed applications other than the price (like whether there are any applications for Nissans  )would be much appreciated....going the all-motor setup has me looking at everything in my engine bay...including these...thanks


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## altimate94 (Nov 28, 2002)

the Arospeed one is universal...............i know fo someone with it on a first gen altima............
me personally am gonna go with the one from sunauto............


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## 91SR20DE (Nov 25, 2002)

What all does this kit attach to? The head, & what? Theoreticly, couldn't you just make your own from some quality 4 guage car audio wire if you knew all the places it attached to? I went to the site, looked at the cut-away diagram. I didnt' really see any shielding, I seen two layers of steel mesh, one of which they call "shield mesh", last time I checked, shielding was more than just a layer of steel braiding with a rubber coating. I think you can make this kit yourself for about $50 if you knew all the points of attachment for you vehicle's kit. Can someone confirm if I'm on to something here?


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

First off...impedance is the same as resistance!! Impedance is just another way of saying resistance. So...lets see...
Heres what the add says...

This system provides direct ground path from battery negative to
body, chassis, and engine components to give extreme improvement on electrical circulation. (Basically what they mean is...it has low resistance)

In addition "Hyper Ground System" cables have 10 times less
impedance than factory ground systems which provides immaculate conduction to prevent electrical power loss. (It has low resistance!)

The higher resistance of factory grounds, effect the ignition system and obstructs the primary potential. The "Hyper Ground System" uses thick gauge 99.99% pure copper, and connects directly from the cylinder head and other points under the hood to the battery, to provide an ultra low resistance connection. (IT HAS LOW RESISTANCE)!!

This will increase the primary potential of regular cars to ignition tuned vehicles. (Lower resistance = More Current!!!!)

Second off...see that cheasy black graph they give you? The voltage on the right graph is below the x-axis. Meaning the voltage is negative?????!!!! Ummmm...excuse me! What the hell are they thinking???? Negative Voltage? The current would flow up from ground and tooo the negative voltage!!!!! Wow!!! I thought their current would rather go to the ground...not come up from it!!!

O.K...So we have the fact that the it's low resistance...so whats the downfall? Power = Voltage^2/(resistance)
Lower resistance will give you more power!!! Basically...like I said before...more power is being diverted to your engine...less to your stereo. Your batteries will drain slightly faster. 

More power...in electrical system is converted to hp?? How is that posible? Let's see...What is the only thing in your car...that uses electricity near the pistons? THE SPARK PLUGS!!! O.k...The voltage on the spark plug can range anywhere from 40000 Volts to 100000 Volts. In laymens terms...the bigger the Voltage the bigger the Spark. Basically....if you change the distributor wiring...wiring from your ignition coils and the alternator wiring...then in fact you actually might gain some hp!!!! Not to mention change up the ignition coils itself!! So this add I would have to say is somewhat true...!!

If you don't believe me
Lets do the math...Assume a car with 400 cold crank Amps...Stock copper wires have usually 10ohms(18Guage) Resistance(not including extreme temperature, Resistance is actually increased with rising temperature!!!) And a 50,000 Volt ignition coil voltage!

Voltage At Spark Plugs = 50,000 - (10)(400) = 50,000- 4,000 = 46,000Volts

Lets see...Lower the Resistance even more...99.99% pure copper resistance should be...1ohm(just guessing)
Voltage At Spark Plugs = 50,000 - (1)(400) = 50000 - 400 =
49600 Volts!!! More Voltage with less Resistance! = Bigger Spark!!

49600Volts - 46000Volts...is about a 3600 Voltage Difference!

So whats the downfall??? Check this chart out...
The resistance of copper depending on the thickness(AWG)
Higher AWG means lower thickness by the way!!!!!!
These guys are obviously trying to rip you off with 99.99% wire. All you have to do is get thicker wires for less resistance!!!
But come on...who in Gods name would put 4 Guage wires(really thick wires)...in their engine bays????!!!! This might actually be a good deal for performance wiring!!! 

http://www.paigewire.com/copperAWG.htm


SORRY FOR THE BOOK! BUT I HAVE TO GIVE YOU THE FACTS...FIRST OK!


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## zeno (Sep 17, 2002)

Ok....for all the skeptics out there, I have read about these wires in 3 well known car mod. magizines. Import Tuner, Super Street, and Sport Compact all reported gains w/ the wires alone. The average seems to be about 5 hp but gains up to 15 hp have been reported. Regardless of how they work, there seems to be some validity to it. I'm really becoming interested, perhaps I'll give it a try.


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

Like I said...try it!!! It looks cool, and might actually give you 5hp gain. Umm...I don't think that reported 15 might be right though! Hmm...It all depends on your current spark plugs and how good they ignite the fuel to air ratio!! If you do get them...make sure they do not go past the voltage threshold of the sparkplugs! Or your sparkplugs just might blow up due to heat!


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## Evolution-Autodesign (Dec 9, 2002)

The wires don't replace your factory ground wires, they piggyback on top of them. 

And all the dyno results show some gains.



UNISH25 said:


> *Josh you are totally right about that...!!!I even said in my previous post that I agreed to that. In reality the equation for Power goes like this...
> 
> O.K So why increase the Resistance???
> Power=V^2/Resistance
> ...


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## kbrassfi (Aug 1, 2002)

I'm sorry, but with my experience in Audio wiring, it is always recommended to get better grounding and power wire to battery, lower resistance does not provide less electricity, it only lowers the resistance, thus making it easier for electricity to flow through, its like trying to run 50 cars side by side into a one lane road, your going to slow down, and have less power, by decreasing resistance, you don't lose power, but rather you open that one lane road up into a freeway, the same number of cars are there, just more room, and quicker response than one lane. get it??


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2003)

Well, I can add something here (short of additional dyno testing). I have just installed the Sun (Hyperground) kit on 2 family cars -- my 1992 Infiniti G20 and 1998 Subaru Outback, both manual T. Both stock except for air filters and ECU from JWT on the G20.

On the G20 the added boost IS noticeable. It's mostly in the lower ranges, where torque is weak on this series. Tootling along in 3rd or 4th in town is also smoother. Car also starts RIGHT AWAY and the idle no longer drops when lights are used. Mileage -- don't know yet, will report that later.

The Subaru in general seems MUCH smoother, especially again in town use in 3rd and 4th -- less bucking when turning corners, etc. I am less sure about the feeling of additional power. Again, lights no longer reduce idle.

The wiring kit is obviously well made and the installation is easy. I found the recommended "S" kit fine for the small G20 engine compartment. I've recommended to Sun that they sell the slightly larger (length) "M" kit pieces to the Legacy/Outback owners -- I had a hard time making everything reach with the smaller set, using the best grounding points.

More on mileage later.


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## zeno (Sep 17, 2002)

Well I finally did it about bought the damn wires!

Overall, they are nothing to jump up and down for but they did make a noticable difference. The car seems to rev. extremely quick towards the lower RPM range and there seems to be a little extra kick. I have no idea as far as numbers but I think 3-5hp in the lower range is pretty close. Not bad for $100 and 20 minutes of my time.

Also....the company that sells Sun Auto stuff was really awesome. I ordered the wires over the phone and they left the same day. CA to CO in 3 days and only $11.50 for shipping.


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## UNISH25 (Aug 12, 2002)

Its kinda late now, but I was wondering,. What guage is the wires? I think I believe that it might actually gain a little power. Good grounding is needed when you dealing with high power!

You know...I think there was a reason why I took electrical engineering. LOL!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2003)

Yes, the Sun group was very responsive on the orders direct to them. Immediate shipping.

I still have seen nothing but positive results, certainly lost nothing or picked up any problems.


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

Well,
Just make sure your existing grounds are ok, otherwise you won't see such great gains. Works best on older sea climate (salt air) cars.

Seth


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

sethwas said:


> *Well,
> Just make sure your existing grounds are ok, otherwise you won't see such great gains. Works best on older sea climate (salt air) cars.
> 
> Seth *


They don't replace or go with the stock ground wires....


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## sethwas (Apr 30, 2002)

You mean the 'hiper ground' stuff.
Yes, I know.
However, whats the point of extra grounding wires if your existing grounds are all torn up and corroded?

Seth


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