# 86.5 D21 Hardbody V6 (Several Issues)



## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

Ok Where do I begin. 

I own a 1986.5 D21 Hardbody KingCab VG301i 3.0 V6 with 412,000 miles (Yes that's 412k miles, and it's not a typo )

Now before you all tell me I need to junk the truck or do an engine swap due to the high mileage... I know this engine needs a complete rebuild top to bottom, however with that rebuild I believe this engine is good for 1,000,000 miles. The interior and exterior is immaculate with no rust whatsoever. 

Anyway I have several issues that I could use some help with, some of them are more serious and annoying then others. I believe I know the answers to some of the problems but I will run them by you guys to get a second opinion of sorts.

#1 Would have to be a clicking noise I get (during and after) the truck has warmed up. The noise is not your typical clicking noise however as it has a pattern separated by a slight pause. At first I thought this could be the timing belt tensioner due to the weird pattern. I recently checked the whole engine for the noise using a mechanics stethoscope and the noise seems to be coming from the drivers side valve cover in the area of the number 6 cylinder. I then thought it might be a worn lifter causing the noise but wouldn't it have a continuous pattern instead of one with a slight pause? I have a recording of this pattern if it will be of any use in finding it's cause.

#2 Is an issue with the tail lights of the truck. When I flip on the headlights they come on instantly, but the tail lights, dash lights, and corner lamps seem to be on a delay of about 5-10 seconds although they have taken much, much, longer to come on at other times. I found This Thread which deals with the same exact issue, except I'm guessing the poster didn't realize he also had no running lights during this "delay". Is this a gummed up switch, bad relay, or something else?

#3 I have a tachometer which came stock in the truck that doesn't work. I guess my only question here is what are the most common reasons the tach might not work in a hardbody. I'm sure some of you are going to tell me to run out and buy a cheap tach to stick on my dash so I can look like one of those retarded too furious not so fast types. Before you do that read on, I want to keep the stock tach so I can have a functioning CC.

#4 The cruise control doesn't work on my Hardbody either. I'm guessing this probably stem's from the non working tachometer. The cruise light on the dash lights up but the cruise control just doesn't engage. I doubt I will beable to to fix this problem until I get the tach sorted out. 

Those would have to be the most annoying on my list of things to do. The mechanical problems like the like the lifter I can handle but when it comes to electrical circuits, relays, fusible links, and the like... I'm lost. If any of you guys have dealt with these problems before and know the fix, I would much appreciate the help with them. 

Thanks


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## spat (Oct 15, 2005)

Ok Where do I begin. 

I own a 1986.5 D21 Hardbody KingCab VG301i 3.0 V6 with 412,000 miles (Yes that's 412k miles, and it's not a typo )

Now before you all tell me I need to junk the truck or do an engine swap due to the high mileage... I know this engine needs a complete rebuild top to bottom, however with that rebuild I believe this engine is good for 1,000,000 miles. The interior and exterior is immaculate with no rust whatsoever. 

Anyway I have several issues that I could use some help with, some of them are more serious and annoying then others. I believe I know the answers to some of the problems but I will run them by you guys to get a second opinion of sorts.

#1 Would have to be a clicking noise I get (during and after) the truck has warmed up. The noise is not your typical clicking noise however as it has a pattern separated by a slight pause. At first I thought this could be the timing belt tensioner due to the weird pattern. I recently checked the whole engine for the noise using a mechanics stethoscope and the noise seems to be coming from the drivers side valve cover in the area of the number 6 cylinder. I then thought it might be a worn lifter causing the noise but wouldn't it have a continuous pattern instead of one with a slight pause? I have a recording of this pattern if it will be of any use in finding it's cause.

_*I would like to hear that clip if you can post it on rapidshare or something.*
_

#2 Is an issue with the tail lights of the truck. When I flip on the headlights they come on instantly, but the tail lights, dash lights, and corner lamps seem to be on a delay of about 5-10 seconds although they have taken much, much, longer to come on at other times. I found This Thread which deals with the same exact issue, except I'm guessing the poster didn't realize he also had no running lights during this "delay". Is this a gummed up switch, bad relay, or something else?

_*The combination switch is often a problem on these switches. If you handy it can be taken apart cleaned and lubed. Then reasembled with glue to hold the casing together. Otherwise I would look more towards a weak relay.*_

#3 I have a tachometer which came stock in the truck that doesn't work. I guess my only question here is what are the most common reasons the tach might not work in a hardbody. I'm sure some of you are going to tell me to run out and buy a cheap tach to stick on my dash so I can look like one of those retarded too furious not so fast types. Before you do that read on, I want to keep the stock tach so I can have a functioning CC.

_*Can't say much here except the tach does get it's signal directly from the coil negative not the ECM. I would tend to think the CC is more reliant on input from the ECM and road speed.*_

#4 The cruise control doesn't work on my Hardbody either. I'm guessing this probably stem's from the non working tachometer. The cruise light on the dash lights up but the cruise control just doesn't engage. I doubt I will beable to to fix this problem until I get the tach sorted out. 

_*Do you have a Nissan service manual? If I had a good schematic of the complete system I could help. Unfortunatly all I have prior to 97 is a haynes manual and it is very vaige.*
_

Those would have to be the most annoying on my list of things to do. The mechanical problems like the like the lifter I can handle but when it comes to electrical circuits, relays, fusible links, and the like... I'm lost. If any of you guys have dealt with these problems before and know the fix, I would much appreciate the help with them. 

Thanks


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

*"I would like to hear that clip if you can post it on rapidshare or something."*

This is the clip, it was taken with my cell phone and it's in AMR format since I don't have the program needed to convert it. It will open with real player or quicktime player. It has alot of noise due to the radiator fan but you can clearly hear the pattern half way through the clip.

TheMadClicker 13KB

*"The combination switch is often a problem on these switches. If you handy it can be taken apart cleaned and lubed. Then reasembled with glue to hold the casing together. Otherwise I would look more towards a weak relay."
*

Ok I found something to day that might have alot to do with my electrical problems. The fusible links under the hood have been "modified" you could say.. Instead of typing these mod's out in detail I will post a pic for you HERE.  

*"Can't say much here except the tach does get it's signal directly from the coil negative not the ECM. I would tend to think the CC is more reliant on input from the ECM and road speed.
"*

If the CC does not depend on the tach I can live without it.


*"Do you have a Nissan service manual? If I had a good schematic of the complete system I could help. Unfortunatly all I have prior to 97 is a haynes manual and it is very vaige.
"*

I don't have a Nissan service manual, but I do have a Haynes manual and the electrical diagrams in mine seem very detailed (3 pages). I can scan them and attempt to put them together as one image if this would help.

Thanks for your help Spat, it's greatly appreciated.


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## spat (Oct 15, 2005)

Well the audio is not very clear but it does sound like valve train noise. I would pull the valve cover and check the valve clearance and inspect the entire asymbly for any damage. also look at the spark plugs and compare them if one has a different apaerance from the others that would be a sign of problems to just that one cylinder.

that electrical repair looks like a possible culprit but not sure would need to now more, is that the starter or inhibitor relay or something totaly different.

I have the haynes manual that covers pick-ups 80-96 and pathfinders 87-95 (copyright 96)
ISBN#1563921987 if that is the schematic you are talking about it is crap. it is a basic not specific to any particular year. It does not include the CC system.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

#1) The noise is likely due to one or more hydraulic lifters. It's a very common issue on VG motors with high miles, but I've yet to see a problem caused by it. You could replaced the lifters, but considering the mileage, you're probably best leaving it be. And yes, they are known to do that intermittant tapping rather than a more consistant tap that one would expect to hear from a lifter.

#2) All of those lamps wire directly make to the lighting switch, which is the most likely issue; probably has dirty or worn contacts.

#3) You probably have a bad tachometer. Only way to be 100% sure is to pull the cluster and check the circuit between the tack and the coil.

#4) Tach has nothing to do with the cruise control operation. ALLDATA has the wiring diagram, but no diagnostic flow chart, which is what you need. You'll need to find a service manual somewhere for the test procedure unless someone on the forum has it.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

*#1* I really want to get rid of the tapping. I know these engines have tight tolerances so would it be a bad idea to only replace the one noisy lifter or should I replace them all?

*#2* I'm going to be doing some electrical checkups on this thing this weekend so I might as well rule out a dirty light switch while I'm at it.

*#3 * How hard is the instrument cluster to remove and about how long would it take?


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

If it is the hydraulic lifters, then I would replace a set on each side you are working on (6 lifters per side). There is another possibility: worn camshaft....not likely, but still possible, especially with 412,000 miles. The only reason I suggested against it is that you say the engine needs a complete rebuild. I would address the issue at that time, if it were me....but, it's your decision, of course.

Cluster is a piece of cake. If you know what you're doing, you can have it out in 10-15 minutes. Then you need to open up the cluster to replace the tach and reassemble. If you take your time, you can still get the whole job done in an hour if all goes right.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

Well I priced a complete rebuild kit from Autozone. The guy said that it would be $814.00 for the kit plus any other fees that might arise from them having to "special order" it. So now I'm like WTF! With 412k miles I would have to have the cylinder bore checked before I ordered the kit and this could mean my truck being out of comission for a month or more. This is an everyday driver as you can tell from the mileage and I can't afford to have it setting under the shade tree or in some garage being tinkered with at $65 an hour. I know there are cheaper rebuild kits available but you get what you pay for. 

My truck burns some oil but I change the oil and filter religiously every 3,000 miles or 3 months which ever comes first. I know it burns oil because the rings and valve stem seals are shot, usually it's just a tad of white/blue smoke when I give it some throttle after it's been idling that gives it away. Once in a while I will have to add a quart to hold it over till the change.

So I think I will pull the heads and replace the valve stem seals and lifters for now. And start an engine overhaul fund... I'll worry about my CC and Tach later. What do you guys think?


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## spat (Oct 15, 2005)

MarcOfMaccTown said:


> Well I priced a complete rebuild kit from Autozone. The guy said that it would be $814.00 for the kit plus any other fees that might arise from them having to "special order" it. So now I'm like WTF! With 412k miles I would have to have the cylinder bore checked before I ordered the kit and this could mean my truck being out of comission for a month or more. This is an everyday driver as you can tell from the mileage and I can't afford to have it setting under the shade tree or in some garage being tinkered with at $65 an hour. I know there are cheaper rebuild kits available but you get what you pay for.
> 
> My truck burns some oil but I change the oil and filter religiously every 3,000 miles or 3 months which ever comes first. I know it burns oil because the rings and valve stem seals are shot, usually it's just a tad of white/blue smoke when I give it some throttle after it's been idling that gives it away. Once in a while I will have to add a quart to hold it over till the change.
> 
> So I think I will pull the heads and replace the valve stem seals and lifters for now. And start an engine overhaul fund... I'll worry about my CC and Tach later. What do you guys think?


I would do some shopping around for a rebuild kit, that price sounds crazy but then I don't know what all is included in it. Personaly I have always been against the idea of strengthening the top of an engine while the bottom half is old and worn out. Seems to me your increasing the chance to realy do some damage on the lower end that way.

My only quarrel with smj999smj's comments is, unless I have had a massive memory mix-up you do not have hydraulic lifters (actually that would be hydraulic lash adjusters), you have solid rocker arms. But he is correct the hydraulic lash adjusters are a common culprit for valve train noises. Often that can be cured with replacing one quart of engine oil with automatic trans fluid while the engine is hot and drive it a few miles. Then change the oil. I have fixed about 70% of what I have seen with sticking lash adjusters in that manner. But that will do nothing for solid rockers.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

According the the Haynes manual and a few of the pages I have read on the net about the VG30 engine, I do have hydraulic lifters. I understand what your saying about rebuilding the top end and not the bottom, it's just that I can't stand this noise any longer.. It's embarrassing as hell and ruins the vibe of my truck. 

The $814.00 rebuild kit had everything except the pistons and freeze plugs. I'm sure I could get a felpro gasket set and find the bearings, lifters, and rings on the net for a fraction of that cost. My biggest concern is what if my cylinders or worn or egg shaped.. What are the chances of this with over 400k miles? If they are, I will have to order over sized rings and possibly pistons won't I?


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## veesix (Jul 18, 2004)

Have you considered buying a parts truck? That way, you'd have a good running engine and a bunch of extra spare parts.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

No that idea never crossed my mind... Not sure how I would find one though. My neighbor has a HB but I think it's newer then 89.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

spat said:


> I would do some shopping around for a rebuild kit, that price sounds crazy but then I don't know what all is included in it. Personaly I have always been against the idea of strengthening the top of an engine while the bottom half is old and worn out. Seems to me your increasing the chance to realy do some damage on the lower end that way.
> 
> My only quarrel with smj999smj's comments is, unless I have had a massive memory mix-up you do not have hydraulic lifters (actually that would be hydraulic lash adjusters), you have solid rocker arms. But he is correct the hydraulic lash adjusters are a common culprit for valve train noises. Often that can be cured with replacing one quart of engine oil with automatic trans fluid while the engine is hot and drive it a few miles. Then change the oil. I have fixed about 70% of what I have seen with sticking lash adjusters in that manner. But that will do nothing for solid rockers.


All Nissan VG30 & VG33E engines use hydraulic lifters, not hydraulic lash adjusters...and both the 3.0L & 3.3L use the same part #. In 2004, Nissan released a TSB (#NTB04-017) with a countermeasure lifter to reduce cold start clatter, P/N: 13231-V5005.


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## spat (Oct 15, 2005)

Buying a parts truck is not a bad idea as long as you live in an area that the neighbors don't mind have a junk vehicle sitting around. That seems to be a growing problem.

*(here is where I insert foot in mouth)*

OK well then I stand corrected on the hydraulic lifter issue not seen any issues with them on the older trucks and truly thought they had solid rockers. Maybe try my trick mentioned before about the hydraulic lifters. I understand if you have doubts on the ATF trick, But what harm could it do to run a motor flush?

Can't realy comment on the gasket set I bought mine from Nissan. However I did use a Felpro set on my old 83 Maxima when I was in school just because I needed a project for shop. Never had a problem with it afterwards Ecxept the drunken bastard that hit it in a parking lot and totaled it about 60k miles later.

As for wear on a Nissan engine? I have never heard of anyone needing any cylinder boreing. Known a few people to do it for boosting, but not for repairs. I would accept the possibility of some cam wear though. That old Maxima I mentioned, well it had 231K miles on it when I rebuilt it. The cylinder wall had less than 2 thousandths wear and the cam was slightly worn can remember the # on the cam. I have replaced a couple of cams on other Nissans in the past but they are rare as well. The ones I replaced where not very well maintained engines anyway. My point is, the biggest factor of a Nissan needing an overhaul in my opinion is the need for a little honeing in the cylinders, replacing the valve seals and reconditioning the valve faces. Not to mention just a good thurough cleaning of the oil and coolant galleries.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

If you were looking to "build-up" the engine performance-wise without the downtime, I would suggest geting a used engine and building it and when you're done, you can just swap it in.

Replacing the lifters and stem seals will not "strengthen the top end." To do that, you would need to do valve job and it would only be "strengthening" it if the current valves weren't sealing to the seats. I still think that it's a bit of a waste of time and money if you are looking to replace or rebuild the engine in the near future, but it's your money....

If you are looking to rebuild to stock specs., I might suggest a reman. engine from Jasper or Nissan. Not only do you save yourself a lot of work, you get a nationwide warranty. Once you start looking at the price of parts and machine shop labor on a 400K+ engine, the differance in price may not be so far apart.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

VG motors do have solid rockers....AND hydraulic lifters. The lifter has a "tit" on the top that contacts the rocker arm.

I would agree about the engine probably not needing boring if it wasn't for the fact that it had 400K+ miles on it. That's a lot of miles no matter what kind of gas engine it is! You really don't know until you pull the pistons and measure the cylinder bores.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

I'm going to call a couple junkyards in Jacksonville tomorrow and see if they have any Hardbody's and what they want for a motor. I hate to swap motors because the one that's in it now is like the energizer bunny, only it's the energizer bunny that keeps on clicking, and clicking, and clicking.. 

I checked Jaspers website and they're asking 3 grand for a VG30i... I'm going to have alot of overtime next payday so I will probably start from there. I really appreciate all the advice and idea's you guys have given me. Most of them would have never crossed my mind. I will get back to you once I have a clear game plan. 

Oh one more thing.. I'm going to try the auto trans fluid trick to see if that helps. When I change the oil would a heavier weight oil cut back on the clicking noise you think?

Once again thanks for the help.


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

1. Lifter noise.

2. Headlight switch contacts need cleaning or re-bending.

3. Shot tach. Find an Ebay replacement cluster or perhaps a junkyard setup.

4. Check the vacuum line to your CC diaphragm under the hood. If it's disconnected you will have no CC.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

MarcOfMaccTown said:


> I'm going to call a couple junkyards in Jacksonville tomorrow and see if they have any Hardbody's and what they want for a motor. I hate to swap motors because the one that's in it now is like the energizer bunny, only it's the energizer bunny that keeps on clicking, and clicking, and clicking..
> 
> I checked Jaspers website and they're asking 3 grand for a VG30i... I'm going to have alot of overtime next payday so I will probably start from there. I really appreciate all the advice and idea's you guys have given me. Most of them would have never crossed my mind. I will get back to you once I have a clear game plan.
> 
> ...


Heavier oil is used when you are experiencing bearing knocks. With lifters, you want thin oil so it will be easier to lubricate the lifter. Stick with 5W-30.

Looking at the Nissan listing for engines, 2WD and 4WD D21's show differant part numbers for the VG30 engine. 

11/85 to 8/97 D21's w/ VG30 & 2WD all use the same part #.

For 4WD VG30 applications, the following use the same part #:
D21 11/85-8/97
WD21 Pathfinder 7/86-9/95

**Remember, when looking at usded VG engines, there were "knocking" issues with the VG30E engines around 94-95 and were involved in a campaign. While most of these engines were probably replaced in the campaign, there are still some of these engines that were never corrected in the campaign and may show up in a junkyard.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

I checked Discounted Nissan Parts for a price on a Nissan reman. engine, P/N: 1010B-0S210RE, which fits 4WD VG30 HB's and Path's, and they show a price of $2394 (core charge $600).


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

Ok I called the biggest junkyard in Jacksonville, and they only had one Hardbody and they couldn't tell me if the engine had already been pulled or not. If I was lucky and it was there it would be $413.00 with a $30.00 core. I called Autozone last night and priced a set of lifters. It would be $30.00 for all 12 lifters and I'm guessing around $20 for the valve cover gaskets. Realistically what are my chances of blowing this engine if I replace the lifters, and valve stem seals? What if I go further and replace rocker arm's and valve springs would it be a really bad idea?

Also, I just remembered something about my last oil change. You guys will probably call me crazy but the last time I changed my oil I added a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. The clicking was still present but nothing like it is now. It got really bad right after I changed my oil the last time and didn't use the Mystery oil, like one day its click, click, click and the next it's CLICK, CLICK, CLICK. Could the Marvel mystery oil have anything at all to do with it?


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

I think Autozone misquoted you. Lifters for this engine on the aftermarket usually run between $15 to $30 each, depending on brand. A quick look at Autozone.com's website shows two brands, one lifter is about $14 and the Beck-Arnley is about $30...each. AutoPartsGiant.com shows them at $14, $20 and $30 each, depending on brand. Think about it...does it sound right that a hydraulic lifter cost less than $3 per?

Are you looking to get the used engine to rebuild or just drop in. Be advised, you may encounter the same lifter tap with the used engine. It was a fairly common incident.

The chances of "blowing the engine" by replacing the lifters and stem seals are slim to none. As far as replacing the rocker arms and valve springs...why? If the rockers aren't broken, they don't need to be fixed. If the rockers are worn, then chances are the camshaft's worn, as well. Are the valve springs worn? If they are, you would have compression issues. If the engine passes a compression test, then the springs should be fine.

From what I've read, you appear to be at a crossroads as to whether to invest money into a 400,000 mile motor or to replace it. That's something you need to decide on your own. If you are looking to keep the original motor, I would suggest you do an oil pressure test, a compression test and a cylinder leakdown test. This will tell you what kind of shape the engine's in. If these tests show that the rings or valves are leaking, then you may be best to look at another engine in the near future. If oil pressure is low, you could have a bad pump or worn engine bearings. If the rings and valves are in good shape and the oil pressure is in spec. and you are not experiencing any rod or crank bearing noise, then your only real concern is the tap. Try the lifters....if it still taps, you will probably be looking at a camshaft and rockers.


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## veesix (Jul 18, 2004)

I could not help but wonder, if the ticking you hear is from an exhaust manifold stud. They are know to break, and when the engine starts changing temperature, they start to click. When everything is hot, the ticking stops.

Also, You might want to consider a Nissan factory oil filter. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure but, when the engine is turned off, the factory filter has a check valve that keeps the oil from draining down from the lifters.

One question: Does the truck have any oil leaks?


veesix


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

Yea I guess you could call it a crossroads. I want to keep the original motor due to the fact that it has 400k miles on it. I mean come on.. 400k miles! I have no issues with this motor other then the clicking noise, it runs and drives like a dream.

On the other hand I'm a 21 year old kid on a tight budget. I can't afford to drop 2 grand on a remanufactured engine for this truck. I could buy another Hardbody for that kind of money. I have a connection to this truck for some reason and I can't imagine driving anything else. I'm going to ride up to Autozone and double check because $30.00 does sound ridiculously cheap for 12 lifters. I asked the guy if they come in sets of 12 or sets of 6.. He said they come in sets of 12 and that they are the hydraulic type. And.. If I got a used engine I would rebuild it before I did the swap, which would still give me a way to work while I'm rebuilding it.

@:veesix

There ARE spots on the engine that look like they may leak, the rear main seal area is one of these. BUT I have parked the truck on a clean concrete floor inside a warehouse type building where I work and haven't seen any oil stains. I broke the parking brake cable once and when I was replacing it I spotted the oily grime on the rear of the block. There was no "Wet" oil though.

And what you said about the exhaust manifold stud, I do have a broke stud on the passenger side manifold. But the truck continues to click even after it is well beyond operating temp. The noise is coming from the rear driverside valve cover, not the passenger side exhaust manifold.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

Just to update you guys I replaced all 12 lifters today and the truck sounds great. No more clicking at all. 

Thanks for the advice you help it's much appreciated.


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

Very nice! Thanks for letting us know. Did the lifters come in a set of 12 for $30 after all or were they $30 each?


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

They were $32.00 per lifter at Autozone.

I printed out the page off of their website which showed the $14.00 lifters and the $32.00 lifters, they price matched them and I got the $32.00 lifters for $14.00 a piece. Altogether it was $211.72 for all 12 lifters and the gasket set with the grommets. I didn't bother with the valve stem seals, at least not yet anyway.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

Update... The clicking has returned with a vengeance. On my way to work this morning It started clicking again.

I've decided to rebuild the heads on my credit card. Will let you know how it turns out.


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## veesix (Jul 18, 2004)

For how long, or how many miles, was the ticking gone?


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

The ticking was gone for about 15 miles or so (odometer reads 17.5 now). It started clicking just as I pulled into the work, I was going up an slight incline in 2nd gear and put a little strain on the motor I guess.. 

When I was replacing the lifters I checked out the rocker arm's and the rocker arm shafts and they had more play then I would like. They were able to tilt side to side ever so slightly, but they did tilt nonetheless. The old lifters pretty much fell out of the lifter assembly and the new ones weren't much tighter.

I called Alabama Cylinder Heads and priced their VG30i heads. $195.00 with a $60.00 core. When he said that I was like, "is this just the bare head?". He said "no it's the complete head". I called back two hours later an asked the same question and he told me they were complete and assembled. Then I said "HELL YEAH!"

I priced just the rocker arm's and valve springs last night and it rang up to $440.00. If I can get the complete heads for $510.00, I'm going that route. I'm also planning on changing the timing belt and several of the emissions and vaccum lines while I'm at it.

You guys have been a great help so far so wish me luck.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

I'm not sure if I asked this already, but did you ever verify that the oil pressure was within specs. and did so with the engine oil hot? I'd hate to see you dump oil that money into it and find out later the problem was worn crank bearings or a bad oil pump.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

I have not checked the oil pressure yet. I will get a mechanical gauge and check it before I order the heads. Would low oil pressure cause the lifters to make no noise whatsoever for 15-20 miles and then suddenly cause the noise to return? 

There has been nothing to indicate worn crank bearings.. so far.

The noise is coming from the valve train. The new lifters fixed the noise on the drivers side head but the noise is now coming from the passenger side head.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

Low oil pressure can cause the lifters to bleed down, which will cause them to tap. New lifters were most likely pre-filled with oil...and besides that, most usually let them soak in oil prior to installing. I'm not saying that low oil presure is definately your problem, but it would make sense to check the oil pressure prior to investing $500+ (not including your labor) into a 400,000+ mile engine.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

Ok I have the mechanical oil gauge but it's gonna be a PITA to get the stock oil pressure switch out so I will probably wait until tomorrow afternoon. 

The guy at Alabama Cylinder Heads wanted the stamp numbers from the heads, both of my heads have 36C on the exhaust side. Is this the number I need or will I have to pull the rocker arm covers? 

I've almost talked myself into pulling the motor and doing a complete rebuild AND buying the heads too. But when ever I look at the motor it's really intimidating... Me and my brother did a complete rebuild on a GM 2.5 Tech4 4 cylinder. It was a helluva job, took a week to do and it didn't have anywhere near the accesories or electrical crap that the VG30 has.. 

But on the other hand I would love to pull the entire thing, pressure steam clean it, replace all the bearings, rings, etc.. and not have to worry about it so much. But then I think.. what if my crank is screwed.. what if the cylinder walls are fried and gouged to hell.. what if the block is a total waste inside?

It's just a big worry to me.. My biggest fear is getting it tore down and running into something I can't handle.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

This is a double post but I've convinced myself to go the easy route and say f**k the rebuilding process and either buy a long block or short block and heads from ACH. Which ever is cheaper.. I'm gonna think it over for a few days so I don't do anything stupid and rush into something thats gonna blow up in my face (knock on wood). 

If I get the short block for $800 and the heads for $400, I will still need intake/exhaust gaskets, oil pan gasket, head gaskets, and and oil pump if mine doesn't do will with the pressure test tomorrow. That would put the price at $1400-$1500 easy. I can get a long block from the same company for 1700 after a 250 core.. 

If you guys have had any dealings with any other engine companies I would like to check them out.


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

I've seen a few customers that went with aftermarket Nissan remans. and had nothing but problems, afterwards. Two of the companies were ATK and Honest Engines. Outside of a genuine Nissan reman., the only other company I would trust is Jasper. That's not to imply that there aren't good rebuilders on the market, just that I've seen a few bad ones.

I would say the long block is the way to go.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

Ok I just pulled off the rocker arm cover and checked out the right side rocker arms and the #5 exhaust rocker arm is loose as all hell. 

The lifter looks like it's extended the same length as all the others and I can't push it down with the rocker arm so I don't think it's a bad lifter.


When it's compressed I can wiggle it side to side and when it's not, I can lift it up and down on the rocker. I knew they were worn but I can't believe I didn't catch that when I replaced the lifters. I can have the rocker and the shaft Saturday morning more then likely so I will try that before I really go in debt with this thing. 

I tried to remove the oil sending unit but it's in the worst place possible. I can't get a wrench on it without removing either the starter or oil filter. I will probably do that saturday when I do the rocker arm and shaft.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

It may be of use to some people with the same problem so I thought I would update everyone on whats going on with the "Mad Clicker"...

I replaced the passenger side exhaust rocker arms and shaft, put everything back together and started her up. The truck sounded excellent just as it did when I replaced all the lifters. I wanted to give it a test drive to make sure all was well but first I went inside to change clothes and degrease myself. Soon as I stepped out the door I heard that same click....

Thats when I knew I had a bad lifter.. I tore it all down again and found a lifter on the #5 cylinder was very, very, very defective... The pad that rides on the cam lobe was about half as thick as it was when I put it in, scared, and concave shaped. I was also very happy to find that it had ruined my camshaft, which had been hammering teh lifter. 

Luckily, I have friends at Advanced that defected the lifter out, gave me a new one, along with a brand new SpeedPro camshaft. They also gave me all the gaskets needed to replace the passenger side head since I had to pull it to get the cam out.

I've decided to go ahead and replace the valve stem seals on both heads. I checked the cylinder walls and they are perfectly smooth with no scoring or gouges. The valve stem seals were hard as steel and broke into several peices when pulled off the valve stem. Also all the lobes on the cam's looked and felt great except the one with the bad lifter. Haven't dial them yet though, will do that next friday.

I've cleaned the heads, valve's, and springs. I don't have any pic's of the valves before and after but I do of the heads. They came so clean and they look so different that it makes me want to pull the block and have it acid dipped so it will all match.. 

The most surprising thing of the whole job was that when I removed the air tube that runs to the front corner of the engine bay, *I found a rag stuffed inside it*... I'm guessing this is the main source of my 0-60 in 5 minutes acceleration, poor gas mileage, and rich smelling exhaust... 

Anyway these are the heads before and after.. I will get back to you guys once they are in the truck. 

Also note the broken exhaust studs... The right side exhaust was only held by two studs.


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

You can also use VG30E heads, they should be the exact same.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

I just finished putting the heads back on about an hour ago. Got everything mounted back up except some vacuum and emissions crap on the intake. 

I checked the play on the rocker arms by finger after they were torqued down and there isnt the slightest bit of play on any of them. Which is awesome compared to how they were jiggling around before. There was so much crud and carbon build up on the valves I doubt some of them were even sealing. 

I will update you guys once I get it running. Hopefully I don't have any more defective lifter problems.... Knock on wood.

BTW do you guys have any suggestions on a high flow muffler with good tone for the VG30? Also how hard would it be to have dual exhausts running from each exhaust manifold?


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

Flowmaster or Magnaflow are good mufflers. Duals are doable but remember there's only one place to run exhaust pipes and it's right where the stock single pipe is.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

Ok the truck is back on the road...... again. 

Everything seems good except a little bit of black smoke from the exhaust. My first guess would be old gas since it's on empty and the same gas has been in the tank for over three weeks now. If it's not that It would probably be the O2 sensor right?

There is still a slight click but you have to have the hood up to hear it and that can be expected from a 2007, much less an 86 with 400k on it.

I gotta say it felt real good to get back in that seat and cruise down the highway. Thanks to all you guys that helped me out along the way. You gave me the answers to a lot of my problems and I'm very grateful for your help.


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## greggthomas (Jan 1, 2008)

*Cracked Exhaust Manifold Studs*

A common problem on the aluminum block engines are cracked studs on the exhaust manifold. When this happens you can hear the valves clicking and not surprisingly you think it is a valve issue. If it happens when engine is cold, but goes away as engine warms up (expansion), a warped exhaust manifold should be suspected. If the studs break off in the engine block, tap and die is in order. I had it done w/ a new manifold (not a machined old manifold) and voila, it's like my baby is brand new again. FYI, this is the second time I've had to re-do this. Cost by the pros = $528.


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## MarcOfMaccTown (Aug 22, 2007)

I've had no major problems since I put the heads back on.

There is a new annoying click when the engine is under load though. I can't place exactly where its coming from since it only does it when the truck is in gear and accelerating down the the highway. It sounds more like a high pitch rattle then lifter noise.

I'm not sure if another exhaust stud has broken off or if its something in the motor itself. It doesn't do it all the time but 80-90% of the time it does. It seems completely random and doesn't matter if the engine is hot or cold. It sounds really loud inside the cab and I can only imagine what it would sound like to someone outside of the truck.

One that I have noticed though... Is sometimes my oil pressure gauge shows 40PSI, and other times it shows around 50-60PSI (guess-stimate). It seems like if I put the engine under load just before the oil pressure reaches operating range it will climb to 60PSI instead of 40PSI. When the oil pressure gauge reads 60PSI, the noise doesnt seem to occur as often. 

I may be imagining things, or my oil pressure sending unit may be bad... But I figured I would get it out there to see if anyone has experienced this before. I'm praying that the oil pump isn't whats making the noise....


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## scout (Aug 24, 2007)

*Interesting*

Have been reading your saga from the beginning. I have a 89 D21 undergoing an engine rebuild for the past few months so I keep track of similar threads.
I am impressed by several items. Your spelling. Your trouble shooting skills. And your tenacity. You should be proud of those skills. 

"It sounds more like a high pitch rattle then lifter noise."

Could it be a heat shield on the cat or somewhere else? This truck is 22 yrs old and has 400,000+ miles. It should rattle. Try listening to some AM talk radio. It will drown out the truck noises.

"It seems like if I put the engine under load just before the oil pressure reaches operating range it will climb to 60PSI instead of 40PSI. When the oil pressure gauge reads 60PSI, the noise doesnt seem to occur as often."

"I'm praying that the oil pump isn't whats making the noise...."

Try the stethoscope on the oil pump at idle and see if that puts yours ears at ease. If that is the original pump then it probably has a little noise due to wear. But I doubt you can hear it in the cab with the engine running. My Nissan manual shows , for an 89 VG30I, an oil pressure of greater than 59psi at idle with normal operating temp. and under no load. At 3200 rpm it shows 53-67psi at normal temp. and under no load.

Good luck. Thanks for the interesting story.


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## big truckin mike (Mar 3, 2009)

i have the same truck and my clicking noise i had was an alternator that was missing one of the two bolts that secure it.


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