# newbie shift advice (rpms, launches, heel/toe)



## drubin (Aug 5, 2002)

My stock 92 se-r is my first manual tranny car... I am getting comfortable after a month or so of having it but I still have some questions and am looking for some advice:

(I have searched and found info, but I am looking for some personalized advice so no "search" flames please)

- At what rpm's or speeds do you tend to shift for daily driving or for max acceleration (on street) For daily driving, what is acceptible max rmps to have some fun, but not put a lot of wear on the car?

- Do I need different pedals to heel/toe shift? (I always find myself wanting to shift while breaking, but I don't want to wear the clutch by not matching revs) - and I don't see how to do it with the stock pedals- can anyone recomend some aftermarket ones?

- for a good launch, do you rev first and then accellerate by letting the clutch out, or do you wait until clutch is catching to give gas? I had one launch that threw my head back into the headrest when I let out clutch and added throtle at the same time and there was almost no slipping, but I haven't been able to duplicate that. In general I launch much faster if I rev a little first, but its never been as fast or smooth as that one time.

- cruising rpms: How many rpms is too much for extended cruising? Is it ok to drive in 4th at 4000 rmps for a long time? I drive on NYC highways where there is lots of traffic but it moves fast. I like to have the acceleration if speed of traffic is varying a lot.

- I've heard of 'bad habits' to avoid in a manual tranny car... I know to match revs, don't drive with foot on the clutch, but what else should I do or not do?

Thanks


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## Mack (Mar 18, 2003)

*Manual driving tips...*

I'm certainly no manual transmission expert, but I have owned my '93 Sentra since 1999 - and driving stick is pretty much second nature to me now. As for launching, I've found that my quickest take-offs come from a slight rev before engaging the clutch. Here's the most important part though: Get to know just exactly where your clutch actually engages. Your clutch might be different from my XE's, but it should still have some ample play (extra movement) in it. Once your foot has "learned" just exactly where to let the clutch out to, you'll be starting and shifting much faster. As for those quick starts, don't rev too much, or you'll spin your tires like mad, as you most likely already know. Of course, if you are smooth enough with the clutch, a larger rev can result in a faster take-off (as you experienced). It just takes a fine balance - something that might take more than a month to finally get in to. For me, I didn't really even realize the potential of(and really start to enjoy) my Sentra until a few months of driving it - when I was in tune with the car enough to drive it accurately and quickly. 

Some bad habits I know of that should be avoided...1) Relying on the gears to slow you down too much - some people have the idea that they should use their manual tranny to slow them down when preparing to stop. As I was told 'Your brakes are much cheaper to replace than your transmission." Definitely don't down shift just to slow down. It's just unnecessary extra wear on the tranny. 2) Don't rest your hand on the stick shift too much - I'm not sure how true this one is, but it seems factual that your arm leaning on the stick could cause unnecessary wear as well.


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## BIGBULS (Sep 24, 2002)

As for shifting and launching for MAXIMUM acceleration.

For a stock SE-R (B13), the best shiftpoints are:

1-2 Redline (or 7600-7700rpm if you are willing)
2-3 7300rpm
3-4 7100rpm
4-5 7000rpm

These shifts are for a stock SE-R with good timing (15 deg). I got these off of a dyno chart, and they aren't just made up. Obviously, a B14 would just redline every gear, except 4th, but since their governor cuts down prior to redline.........

If you don't believe me, here is the dyno chart: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9713/neon_vs_se-r.html

And here are the gear ratios:

1st 3.063
2nd 1.826
3rd 1.286
4th 0.975
5th 0.758

It's very simple math (you all know how to match hp curves with gear ratios right?)and you'll come up with the same shiftpoints as me. The only way to be totally sure is to dyno YOUR car (every car is a little different), but this dyno is a very good representation of a stock SE-R, which is why I used it.

For launching, you can either slip clutch launch (hard on the clutch, hard to get right) or dump the clutch resulting in wheelspin (easier to do, but eats up the tires after a while). Either way, you want the clutch and tires fully hooked up in the 4500-4800rpm range. This gives you the best combination of good 60ft times, and puts you RIGHT in the meat of the torque curve for maximum acceleration just as your tires achive full traction (done right you can even get a little "slingshot" as your tires hook). I've found that I get similar 60ft times by allowing the tires to hook up as low as 4000rpm, but that I end up with a slightly slower time at the end of the 330, 1/8 and 1/4 since I have less rpm off of the tire's hookup.......hence me saying 4500+ rpm.

Your actual launch rpm will vary depending on your actual technique, and the street/track you are on (some are grippier than other), not to mention what tires you have, but you should always try to get the tires/clutch to hook up where I said.


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## gsr20det (Apr 30, 2002)

Heel/Toe - 

I have stock pedals in my race car (1992 SE-R). All I did was bend the gas towards the brake and it works perfectly for me and the 6 or so others who have ever driven my car in enduros.

Tom


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## BIGBULS (Sep 24, 2002)

Oh...and for the high speed/high rpm driving.......

I drove from California to Iowa with no 5th gear (popout).......cruising at 80mph/5050rpm the entire way.

I've put 30,000 miles on the car since and had no problems.

I wouldn't really recomend it though.


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## drubin (Aug 5, 2002)

Wow, lots of info... many thanks to each of you. 
I am going to go for a drive tomorrow just to try some of this stuff out.

Driving my car is getting to be really fun now because I no longer worry about stalling or rolling into the car behind me and stuff like that - I can spend time trying to develop skills. Its funny because I always thought of myself as a good driver (of automatics) and now that doesn't even feel like driving anymore. 
Thanks again and I'll report back after I go for a drive.


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## Mack (Mar 18, 2003)

I know what you mean about really getting into driving a manual...a day after I bought my car, I was having second thoughts about it because driving stick wasn't coming easily to me yet - but when it did, driving an auto just felt like something was missing. It's even more weird now for me to realize that I don't remember shifting once I've arrived at my destination. It's gotten to be another involuntary movement like breathing or something...which is something that people who don't drive manuals will never understand (at least some of them). There just seems to be a general misconception that it is "difficult" or "requires too much thinking"...hmmm, that's too bad.


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## UpChuck (Jul 20, 2002)

BIGBULS said:


> *I drove from California to Iowa with no 5th gear (popout).......cruising at 80mph/5050rpm the entire way.
> *


At 5k in 5th gear, my car is right at 100 mph. How is yours so different?

EDIT: Nevermind. I just read it wrong. I need some sleep.


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## drubin (Aug 5, 2002)

Well, two weekends ago I twisted my ankle and the sob still hurts so I haven't had much fun driving lately. Its my right ankle and its fine as long as I don't have to switch from gas to brake or vice versa. Still, I have to drive every weekday and I did start playing around in the higher rpm's a little.

There's a rest stop on my way to work (and home) where the entrance onto the thruway has no lead and there is a stop sign and lots of traffic. So its a great excuse to test the acceleration b/c otherwise I'll have a pissed off communter riding my @ss. I took it to about 6k in each gear (maybe less in first) and that was very satisfying but I still haven't taken it to the limit.

The one excursion I did make (driving gingerly all the way) was to the Team Serious meet in LI where I saw all kinds of sr20 turbos for the first time and a sr20ve too.

ps. Since my last post I've gotten a lot smoother shifts most of the time and its just getting better and better.


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## Gump (Jan 30, 2003)

Just my idea, why would you want to consistently red like your car? I mean if you racing other 4 or 6 bangers, i never red line and minus turbos, i always have it on em anyhow, i dont know i just dont like the idea of spinning a bearing from over reving! The SR20 is a great engine but everything dies from beating it to much. 

(personial perspective)


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## drubin (Aug 5, 2002)

I don't think anyone is saying that you should consistently redline your car - bigbuls post was refering to getting absolute maximum acceleration. As for me, feeling the acceleration is exhilerating, but getting into the higher revs always makes me nervous. 

Incidentally, the guy I bought my se-r from didn't rev over 4k and he got nervous when I did on the test drives. That made me hesistant to buy (in case he was hiding something) but I did end up buying it and the engine is still strong so that was just his driving style.


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