# E85 ethanol use in 2005 Nissan Frontier NISMO 4x4.



## Jsee (Jan 12, 2004)

Okay, so I’ve read time after time on this board about how people hate their gas mileage in their 4x4 Nismo Frontiers. 

In any case, I’ve been doing some research on E85 and although it yields about 75% of the energy of standard 87 octane gasoline, and you’ll get worse gas mileage, I just want to know if anyone has done any research that suggests that we can run this in a – let’s say 2002 and newer car.

I guess the main question would have to be the internal components likes fuel pump and seal materials. If they could withstand the alchohol, I see no reason why we could not run E85 in our cars. Yes, without any modifications, the Frontier would get worse mileage, however, I believe that could be resolved by upping the effective compression ratio in the engine simply by super charging it.

Anyway, just thought I would bring this up. As most of us know, E85 is more expensive and has some transportation issues from refinery to fuels stations. But I do believe in the long term it will become a parallel fuel. I just don’t want to have to buy a new car.

Any thoughts on this would be great. Thanks all.


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## Markcuda (Apr 24, 2006)

On my 06 Frontier owners manual, it says not to use it, that is what I will do.


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## azrocketman (Oct 5, 2005)

Jsee said:


> I guess the main question would have to be the internal components likes fuel pump and seal materials. If they could withstand the alchohol, I see no reason why we could not run E85 in our cars. Yes, without any modifications, the Frontier would get worse mileage, however, I believe that could be resolved by upping the effective compression ratio in the engine simply by super charging it.


You cannot get the same "gas" mileage from E85 as you do from gasoline. There's more energy in a gallon of gas versus a gallon of alcohol; see the following: 

There is only one common unit of measurement in reference to energy, the British Thermal Unit (btu). This is a standard unit for measuring heat energy. One btu represents the amount of heat required to raise one pound of water one degree Fahrenheit at sea level. More commonly, one btu is the energy produced by a typical wooden kitchen match.

According to the American Automobile Manufacturers Association, a gallon of typical gasoline contains 114,132 btu’s. However, even this amount of energy content changes from summer to winter as gasoline’s volatility is seasonally adjusted. For the purposes of this summary, we assume the following:

1 U.S. Gallon of gasoline contains 114,132 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of no. 2 diesel fuel contains 138,000 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of ethanol contains 76,000 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of methanol contains 56,800 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of propane contains 84,500 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of compressed natural gas contains 19,800 btu

Ethanol is denatured by adding 5 gallons of gasoline to 100 gallons of ethanol (4.76%), therefore:

Ethanol @ 76,000 btu/gal x 95.24% =	72,382
Gasoline @ 114,132 btu/gal x 4.76 = 5,433

Denatured ethanol =	77,815 btu/gallon

E85 is then a blend of denatured ethanol and gasoline, therefore:

Denatured ethanol @ 77,815 btu/gal x 85%	=	66,143
Gasoline @114,132 btu/gal x 15% = 17,120

E85 =	83,263 btu/gal


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## Jsee (Jan 12, 2004)

Thank You for the summary, it was very informative.

Basically, I was not saying that one ‘could’ yield the same amount of energy from E85 as with 87 Octane gasoline, one can easily see the BTU difference between the two. However, I believe you could yield a little more efficient burn / energy from E85 if lets’ say one installed a roots-type supercharger (like provided by Stillen) on the Frontier engine. This pushes a more dense mass of air into a fixed volume/cavity thus assisting in the burn. You won’t get gasoline energy, but I think you could get better than normally aspirated on E85. 

In any case, it’s just a thought just in case it comes to that, but not yet. Right now, gasoline is still somewhat affordable.

Thanks.


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## msubullyfan (Jul 24, 2005)

Well, you'll certainly get more energy from a supercharged engine, but it almost certailny will come at an even greater sacrifice of fuel economy.

The thing that gripes me about E85 is GM's "Think Green, Go Yellow" commercials. They have a statement in one of the radio commercials that basically states, "E85 has a higher octane rating than gasoline, which could lead to better horsepower". What a joke!!


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## avenger (Oct 7, 2005)

dino oil is not going anywhere for a very long time.


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## jerryp58 (Jan 6, 2005)

Jsee said:


> Okay, so I’ve read time after time on this board about how people hate their gas mileage in their 4x4 Nismo Frontiers.
> 
> In any case, I’ve been doing some research on E85 and although it yields about 75% of the energy of standard 87 octane gasoline, and you’ll get worse gas mileage, I just want to know if anyone has done any research that suggests that we can run this in a – let’s say 2002 and newer car.
> 
> ...


This site... http://www.ethanol.org/ ...states that most cars can should be able to use up to E30 (I don't know of anyone selling anything other than E10 & E85), but unless it's a Flex Fuel vehicle, you shouldn't run E85. They also say they know of no one making any kind of conversion kits (upgrade to fuel pump, some seals, a fuel type sensor, ecu reprogrammer, etc.).

FWIW, I'm on my third tank of E10. I've paid less per gallon for it than the lowest price E0 station in my town. I've seen no effect on my gas mileage... http://mysite.verizon.net/jerryp58/id11.html (there are so many varying conditions, it's tough to tell what has more of an effect; but nothing dramatic seems to have happened since using E10). I can't tell any difference in the truck's performance.

Finally, I personally would be willing to pay more per gallon for E30 and would be willing to lose a couple of MPGs. There's got to be something to compete with the oil companies (notice on that website that they get a small federal subsidy for every gallon of gas they don't sell because of ethanol  ) or we'll be paying ever increasing prices and we'll never see any alternative fuel become commonplace.


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## scuba91ta (Aug 19, 2005)

the answer to your question is to simply look in your users manual...

we are not able to use it in our trucks...


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## Neiltheseal (Jun 21, 2019)

I've got a 2003 Nissan frontier xe crew cab 3.3l v6 5 speed manual. I regularly use e85 due to its lower hydrocarbon emissions. The truck starts fine and runs fine weather its below frezzing or over 90°F. The check engine light never comes on nor does the truck experience any loss in power. I had my mechanic check all fuel components and non have any adverse wear and tear.

The only down side is if I fill it up with standard gas afterwards the truck nearly craps out. Though thats a simple fix. I just pull the engine controle module fuse and re insert and truck drives fine again. Any manufacturer of cars that says you can't do this with a post 80s car that is fuel injected is full of it. I did it with a 89 olds cutlass ant it worked fine too. No modifications.


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## BRubble (Jun 22, 2014)

Neiltheseal said:


> I've got a 2003 Nissan frontier xe crew cab 3.3l v6 5 speed manual. I regularly use e85 due to its lower hydrocarbon emissions. The truck starts fine and runs fine weather its below frezzing or over 90°F. The check engine light never comes on nor does the truck experience any loss in power. I had my mechanic check all fuel components and non have any adverse wear and tear.
> 
> The only down side is if I fill it up with standard gas afterwards the truck nearly craps out. Though thats a simple fix. I just pull the engine controle module fuse and re insert and truck drives fine again. Any manufacturer of cars that says you can't do this with a post 80s car that is fuel injected is full of it. I did it with a 89 olds cutlass ant it worked fine too. No modifications.





scuba91ta said:


> the answer to your question is to simply look in your users manual...
> 
> we are not able to use it in our trucks...


Neil,

If you want to subject YOUR TRUCK to BETA TESTING, It's Your Truck to do as YOU WISH, but the above QUOTE IS WHAT THE MANUFACTURER SAYS.

BTW This Thread is 13 year's OLD, maybe the OP that did this long ago with his TRUCK, DIED along with his TRUCK.

For other's don't Loose Sleep and Spend EXtra Money, trying to Reinvent the Wheel. Take good care of Your Truck,, do the Recommended preventative maintenance, don't abuse your truck in the Mud, Water, Off Road, & Wheeling. Just drive your truck to last as long as possible is my advice.

FWIW,


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## smj999smj (Jan 1, 2006)

The issue with running E85 in a vehicle that is not "flex-fuel" is that it is corrosive. Using E85 in a vehicle a couple of times won't do much harm. But, consistently using it will erode components in the fuel system made out of rubber, magnesium or aluminum and the resulting residue will get passed through the fuel system into the engine. Using E85 in a vehicle not meant for it can also cause the ECM to detect a lean condition based on the input of the oxygen sensors and cause it to adjust the air/fuel mixture accordingly. That's why the previous poster has to pull the ECM fuse when he went back to regular unleaded gas and the vehicle started running poorly. The ECM self-learning function had adjusted its fuel mapping to the E85 and pulling the fuse erases the self-learning memory. Running E85 in a vehicle not designed for it can also reduce power and fuel mileage due to the E85 being having less energy density than regular gasoline. Bottom line, stick with what the manufacturer recommends.


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