# Slotted vs. Drilled vs. blanks



## waznme (May 16, 2005)

I recently bought an 05 spec-v w/brembo brake kit. I just started auto-crossing the car, and am totally hooked on it now. :thumbup: I would like to know what my best option would be to upgrade my brakes. The car is completly stock as of this post, but a Nismo CAI and Unorthodox pully are on the way.


----------



## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

for auto X, leave the brakes alone. they're more than up to the task.
if you have problems with them, upgrade the pads. leave the rotors alone.


----------



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Carbotech, Hawk and NISMO make brake pads that fit your car. Before even changing the pads, upgrading the fluid and getting stainless steel lines are always a good idea.


----------



## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

depending on the class he's competing in at Solo II, SS lines may not be allowed...


----------



## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

Matt93SE said:


> depending on the class he's competing in at Solo II, SS lines may not be allowed...


Wouldn't the underdrive pulley put him out of stock too?


----------



## waznme (May 16, 2005)

Matt93SE said:


> depending on the class he's competing in at Solo II, SS lines may not be allowed...


according to my rule book i am ok adding ss lines, different rotors, & pads as long as they are the same size as stock...which is cool with me, cause the brembos are 4 piston calipers & 12" rotors.


----------



## waznme (May 16, 2005)

ReVerm said:


> Wouldn't the underdrive pulley put him out of stock too?


i am allowed 0-2 points, which for me (according to the rule book) the CAI is 1 point and the pulley is one point. This keeps me in stock class, which is where i want to be until i really learn what my car can do.


----------



## waznme (May 16, 2005)

Zac said:


> Carbotech, Hawk and NISMO make brake pads that fit your car. Before even changing the pads, upgrading the fluid and getting stainless steel lines are always a good idea.


after the fluid change, and ss lines, would drilled/slotted rotors help me or not? i am seeing some posting that say the drilled rotors are less sturdy than blanks and may break. i would be getting direct bolt-on replacements from brembo, not some second rate stuff. 

isn't drilling/slotting also supposed to help in dispersion of gasses built up under hard braking?

aren't they less weight, and that the power needed to get the big rotors spinning up to speed in the first place be reduced, thus giving me more effective hp to the pavement?  

The other thing that is driving this question is that i just like the look of them. I know there are a lot of questions here, but i just want to hear some opinions/experiences before i spend a couple hundo's to get them on all four corners.


----------



## spooky240kid (Mar 22, 2005)

drilled rotors are more prone to cracking under heavy/repeated braking, which you're likely to face if your auto-x-ing. If, however, you had a street car, and you wern't likely to be doing heavy braking, i'd say to go for 'em. Slotted rotors are less likely to crack than drilled rotors, but still more likely to crack than "blank" or OEM-style rotors (i hope that made sense...)

However, youre right that they're lighter (obviously) and help to disperse gasses. So yeah - i'd upgrade the pads and the lines, but the rotors should be fine. Good luck w/ur auto-x-ing!


----------



## ak47m203 (Apr 24, 2005)

slotted and drilled(decreased brake surface) are for show only... upgrade your brake pads,,, i heard aem is good. 




waznme said:


> I recently bought an 05 spec-v w/brembo brake kit. I just started auto-crossing the car, and am totally hooked on it now. :thumbup: I would like to know what my best option would be to upgrade my brakes. The car is completly stock as of this post, but a Nismo CAI and Unorthodox pully are on the way.


----------



## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

No they aren't for show, It's to create more surface area to disipate heat better, and to lessen rotating mass


----------



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Since you are doing autocrossing, you are best off with rotors which are not drilled. Although good drilled rotors are excellent for street usage, slotted is generally the preference for heavier track usage.

You will see a much significant difference when upgrading the pads than the rotors. I do not know about other companies but Carbotech makes the XP-8 and Panther Plus. The XP-8 is a track pad, and I would not use it for street usage simply because of the noise it makes. Generally, the meaner track pads will also wear rotors faster which is why it may be a good idea to consider having both track and street pads.


----------



## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

For auto X use, you do not get the brakes hot enough for any high performance pad to really be of much benefit. use a pad that has good cold braking and maintains a consistent pedal up to a few hundred degrees. in 60 seconds, you'll never get the rotors over 3-400 degrees, and that's an absolute maximum. pads like the Carbotech XP-8 aren't made for stuff like that and will actually eat away at your rotors until they get to several hundred degrees. I have a set in my track box for those days, but otherwise they stay there...

For a good pad, look at Axxis/PBR ultimates, or Ferodo DS2500. They both work well on low temp stops and have consistent friction levels all the way up to hard-braking road course temps. don't bother with Axxis Metal Master, as they need a bit of heat to start working. your first few stops of each run will have problems with the cold temps..

As for drilling and slotting, again, stay away.
Drilling is for show only, or $200,000 Ferraris with $15,000 brake systems. on a street car that sees tons of thermal shock like autocrossing on cold rotors and sudden stops on the street when grandma cuts you off, you're better staying away from drilled rotors. they tend to crack.. The weight savings is minimal. maybe an ounce or two on each rotor. At that point, you can get the same weight savings by skipping breakfast the day of your Auto X event, or shaving your tires a couple 1/32" or a gallon less gas in the tank, or _________________. the weight savings are minimal.

slotted rotors are fine, but again, only for show.

Modern pad compounds don't have issues with outgassing like they did even just 15 years ago. no reason to have slotted rotors on a street car unless you like driving through deep water and need the cheesegrater effect to scrape the moisture away. otherwise there's no need...

for Auto X/street use, you want good quality solid rotors. nothing else will work any better. Your brake pads are the most important part of the entire system for Auto X use, no matter what anyone else tells you.


As for the SS lines, they are NOT ALLOWED in stock class.
http://scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2005SoloRules.pdf
look on page 66. 
sec 13.6.B
"B. Substitution of clutch and brake hydraulic lines with solid metal or
braided metal is allowed on all cars manufactured before model
year 1992."

Since yours is an '05 model, it does not fall into that category and thus the mod is not allowed in stock classes.
If you go to Street Touring, Street Prepared, Modified, etc.. they all allow the SS lines. only one that doesn't is stock class.

If you're competing on only a local level, then usually they don't care about something as trivial as this, but if you're competing on a divisional or national level, you'd best follow the rules to the letter.


----------



## waznme (May 16, 2005)

Zac said:


> Since you are doing autocrossing, you are best off with rotors which are not drilled. Although good drilled rotors are excellent for street usage, slotted is generally the preference for heavier track usage.
> 
> You will see a much significant difference when upgrading the pads than the rotors. I do not know about other companies but Carbotech makes the XP-8 and Panther Plus. The XP-8 is a track pad, and I would not use it for street usage simply because of the noise it makes. Generally, the meaner track pads will also wear rotors faster which is why it may be a good idea to consider having both track and street pads.


i figure that i will be racing about 8 races a year, so if i understand correctly, i would be ok getting some brembo combination rotors that are both slotted and drilled all on one. also get a more street friendly pad, as i would rather go through pads than rotors.


----------



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Matt, I thought the XP-8 was designed for lower temps and ran well at about 250 degrees? Maybe I am thinking of the Panther Plus? 

The Bobcats have been reccomended for lighter track usage, but I always thought they were made for primarily street usage?


----------



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

There are no real benefits in upgrading rotors and currently no one makes a rotor for the Brembo brake option. Brembo and StopTech have announced to callers they are close to releasing one, but upgrading will not have near any benefits of upgrading pads.


----------



## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

NOOOO.. stay away from the XP-8 unless you're on the track..

Here's my car on some XP-8 in traffic...
http://www.vq30de.net/images/p1000098.mov

That was with the windows up I think... the squeal is literally painful with windows down.. and they make zero noise when they're cold.. once you get them to street driving temps, they squeal like that... and it gets worse the hotter you go, up until low track temps and they get nice and quiet again and REALLY start to bite.

the Bobcat or Panther Plus are more suited for street driving and solo II events.
http://carbotecheng.com/prod-ct-compounds.htm


----------



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Oh my...I have mixed my compounds up and your brakes are a tad bit loud...


----------



## waznme (May 16, 2005)

Matt93SE said:


> For auto X use, you do not get the brakes hot enough for any high performance pad to really be of much benefit. use a pad that has good cold braking and maintains a consistent pedal up to a few hundred degrees. in 60 seconds, you'll never get the rotors over 3-400 degrees, and that's an absolute maximum. pads like the Carbotech XP-8 aren't made for stuff like that and will actually eat away at your rotors until they get to several hundred degrees. I have a set in my track box for those days, but otherwise they stay there...
> 
> For a good pad, look at Axxis/PBR ultimates, or Ferodo DS2500. They both work well on low temp stops and have consistent friction levels all the way up to hard-braking road course temps. don't bother with Axxis Metal Master, as they need a bit of heat to start working. your first few stops of each run will have problems with the cold temps..
> 
> ...


i want to thank everybody for helping on matter, i have learned/heard quite a bit. i have been reading the forums for quite a while, but had to join to ask this question.

as for the rules for my auto-x. i am only competing in a local club, and you are correct...they don't really care about the ss lines. 

so here is what i am going to do based on your opinions:new nismo pads, slotted rotors, ss lines, and motul 600 brake fluid. thanks again. :thumbup:


----------



## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

don't waste your money on Motul either... buy a bottle of Valvoline synthetic from autozone for about 1/4 the price.. it has a higher boiling point than you'll ever need to see on the street or auto X, and is about $4.50/quart.


----------



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

I got Motul for about that which is why I use it 

I've heard Ford C6AZ-19542 is good to use too as it is cheap and has a very high boiling point.


----------



## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

yeah, the Ford DOT3 fluid is close to ATE Blue boiling point.. somewhere slightly above the Valvoline.

Valvoline
Dry, 480 F
wet, 330F

Castrol GT-LMA
Dry, 446 F
Wet, 311 F

ATE Superblue or TYP 200 (yellow)
Dry, 536 F
wet, 392 F 

I don't have the specs on the Ford stuff, thsoe are just what's sitting on the shelf in the garage.


----------



## Acceler8ter (Feb 5, 2005)

Drilled Rotors are prone to cracking. Many race teams USED to use them but have since switched over to Slotted rotors because they don't have as much a chance of cracking and they work very well.

Slotted rotors are not just for show. They look good and they will perform. They effectively clean the brake pad as they turn. Removing gasses and such. However they will eat pads faster then a blank because of this.

Slotted and drilled (cross-drilled) are strictly for show. Drive on the street with them or race with them for a certain amount of time and they WILL crack. Plus 9% of the braking surface is removed. That's quite a bit...


----------



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Acceler8ter said:


> Drilled Rotors are prone to cracking. Many race teams USED to use them but have since switched over to Slotted rotors because they don't have as much a chance of cracking and they work very well.
> 
> Slotted rotors are not just for show. They look good and they will perform. They effectively clean the brake pad as they turn. Removing gasses and such. However they will eat pads faster then a blank because of this.
> 
> Slotted and drilled (cross-drilled) are strictly for show. Drive on the street with them or race with them for a certain amount of time and they WILL crack. Plus 9% of the braking surface is removed. That's quite a bit...


Stop buying into the hype of Powerslot. Good drilled rotors on the street will NOT crack. Even on light track days, they are fine. They are not reccomended for heavy track days.


----------



## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

Zac said:


> Stop buying into the hype of Powerslot. Good drilled rotors on the street will NOT crack. Even on light track days, they are fine. They are not reccomended for heavy track days.



Yes, they do crack. I've got a pair of $400 Brembos in the back yard that I can stick my thumbnail through the cracks. and they were just 10,000 miles old. didn't even go through one set of pads. And they were cast into the rotors AT Brembo, none of this "buy a brembo and machine it" crap like powerslot or Stillen.

Now, if you have a Ferrari or Porsche ro something with drilled brakes from the OEM, then that's a different story. but you simply can't buy that kind of quality part for a Nissan.


----------



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Did you use them for track events? I am yet to have a problem with my StopTechs and I do not know street users who have had problems with good drilled rotors for the street. Brembo says directly on their site not to use them for track events.


----------



## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

Unless you do stress-relief on every hole drilled, you are opening yourself to experiencing cracked rotors. It's a freaking fact. Gas dispersion is not an issue in autocross.

I spent two seasons autocrossing my SE-R with stock brakes and never felt a need for more stopping power. Locking all four was done more than once by accident..

You'll get your greatest benefit with seat time and tires. SCCA Solo II allows certain DOT race tires (at least they did when I ran), they're worth 3 seconds per lap, give or take. I found a four-point harness to be worth almost a second per lap.


----------



## captain_shrapnel (Sep 10, 2004)

What does Formula 1 use? They use blanks, no slotting, no cross-drilling. Argument over.


----------



## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

Zac said:


> Did you use them for track events? I am yet to have a problem with my StopTechs and I do not know street users who have had problems with good drilled rotors for the street. Brembo says directly on their site not to use them for track events.


Stoptechs are comparable to the OE quality. that's a different subject.
and no, I did not use them for any track events or even autocross. they were street driven only, with axxis MM pads on them from day one. lasted me a whole 6 months.
when those cracked, I put the 100k old stock fronts on it and ran them for about a year until I totalled that car. no warpage, no cracks, braking was just as good as with the drilled rotors.


----------



## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

> What does Formula 1 use? They use blanks, no slotting, no cross-drilling. Argument over.


Ummm, they use carbon-based discs and pads. Not really applicable to this discussion.


----------



## Sentra GTR-1 (Aug 2, 2002)

Actually, thats not true- If you go you HPautoworks.com they have the same Brembo brake package but with slotted rotors, pads and stainless steel lines.


----------



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Matt93SE said:


> Stoptechs are comparable to the OE quality. that's a different subject.
> and no, I did not use them for any track events or even autocross. they were street driven only, with axxis MM pads on them from day one. lasted me a whole 6 months.
> when those cracked, I put the 100k old stock fronts on it and ran them for about a year until I totalled that car. no warpage, no cracks, braking was just as good as with the drilled rotors.


How hard do you drive? Maybe drilled rotors do crack but I am yet to see it firsthand or have it happen to me. Is saying Stoptech is comparable to OE good or bad, because I'm more than happy with mine and no problems at all.


----------



## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

oops... I meant stoptechs are comparable to Brembo's discs with OE cast-in holes.. the good ones.

Stoptech is great quality..


----------

