# Who still supports timing advancement?



## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

I was jus kinda thinking and with gas prices constantly going up, who would still recommend to another to bump their timing?

Advancing your timing used to be a good "free" mod if you didn't mind paying extra for premium. With Gas prices at an all time high, I'm seeing a normal 10c jump from 87-89 but an amazing 16c jump from 89-93. Yes, I understand that if you're running F.I., higher grade fuel is necessary to save your engine, but we're talking about a 1-2hp mod compared to a 60*+*hp mod.

Who is still willing to add 2hp for an extra 26c a gallon?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

I agree... its 2.51 for premium right now sooooo..... you can save a lot of money just by knocking the timing back to stock for now... which is the great part about that mod...


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

Ninety-Nine SE-L said:


> Who is still willing to add 2hp for an extra 26c a gallon?



u figure that at an extra 26c a gallon, thats 2.60 for every 10 gallons you pump......on regular driving, 10 gallons should last you about 2 weeks(sometimes it lasts me 3) 2.60 isnt that much really....especially when youre talking about people like me with a N/A GA that needs to take all the extra power it can get. when it comes to doint the math at the end of the year, it comes out to $270+ which is a shitload of money, all things considered. damn, im gonna go retard my timing ASAP :thumbdwn:


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## MShorten (Jul 19, 2004)

Ninety-Nine SE-L said:


> I was jus kinda thinking and with gas prices constantly going up, who would still recommend to another to bump their timing?
> 
> Advancing your timing used to be a good "free" mod if you didn't mind paying extra for premium. With Gas prices at an all time high, I'm seeing a normal 10c jump from 87-89 but an amazing 16c jump from 89-93. Yes, I understand that if you're running F.I., higher grade fuel is necessary to save your engine, but we're talking about a 1-2hp mod compared to a 60*+*hp mod.
> 
> Who is still willing to add 2hp for an extra 26c a gallon?


For racing, which is what I use my B13 for, yup, the 1 to 2 is worth it. 

Regards,
Michael


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

yea, I guess if you go to the track, it's worth bumping it up a bit.


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## Nismo1997 (Dec 26, 2003)

Here in ny it went down alot..but last few days its going back up.last week i paided 1.97 for reg in my jeep...today its 2.13


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## Hendrix (Jan 17, 2004)

Yeah, I was thinking about advancing my timing but with gas prices the way they are I'll hold off on it.


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

The factory ignition timing is:
GA16DE - 8 +/- 2
SR20DE - 15 +/- 2

So you can set the timing to 10* for the GA and 17* for the SR and be at the factory setting.

Lew


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

Although I don't recommend it, the ECU does automatically adjust the timing for your gasoline. You can have the timing cranked, running 87 octane, and it'll automatically push the timing back.


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## B14_Stealth (Aug 14, 2003)

super around here is like $2.10 sometimes you can get it for $1.98 /gal


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## Fernan Abracosa (Oct 7, 2004)

Advancing the ignition timing is an inexpensive (free) modification that can make a noticeable difference in throttle response and through the entire powerband with the largest gains in the midrange, around 5500 rpm. Fuel economy is also improved if your driving habits remain the same with the additional power. Adjusting the timing can produce gains of up to 5 hp at the wheels on a GA16 for instance. The amount of gain, you can expect depends on where the timing is currently set now. If it is too low you will feel a larger SOTP difference. Timing advance helps produce more power by igniting the sparks sooner, providing more time for the fuel/air mixture to burn completely, increasing cylinder pressure, thus providing more power. Remember that our engines are sensitive to timing advance and can gain quite a bit of power by adjusting the timing.


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

Ninety-Nine SE-L said:


> Although I don't recommend it, the ECU does automatically adjust the timing for your gasoline. You can have the timing cranked, running 87 octane, and it'll automatically push the timing back.


This is a BAD idea. There is a knock sensor which retards the timing when it detects pinging/detonation. It is disabled by the ECU at wide open throttle. So when you need it most, it does nothing.

Lew


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

Fernan Abracosa said:


> Advancing the ignition timing is an inexpensive (free) modification that can make a noticeable difference in throttle response and through the entire powerband with the largest gains in the midrange, around 5500 rpm. Fuel economy is also improved if your driving habits remain the same with the additional power. Adjusting the timing can produce gains of up to 5 hp at the wheels on a GA16 for instance. The amount of gain, you can expect depends on where the timing is currently set now. If it is too low you will feel a larger SOTP difference. Timing advance helps produce more power by igniting the sparks sooner, providing more time for the fuel/air mixture to burn completely, increasing cylinder pressure, thus providing more power. Remember that our engines are sensitive to timing advance and can gain quite a bit of power by adjusting the timing.


Um, thanks for the information....I guess. BTW, the topic of the thread is "Is it worth the extra fuel $$$ for a few extra HP, since you have to use premium"


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## Scott (Apr 15, 2002)

Fernan Abracosa said:


> Advancing the ignition timing is an inexpensive (free) modification that can make a noticeable difference in throttle response and through the entire powerband with the largest gains in the midrange, around 5500 rpm. Fuel economy is also improved if your driving habits remain the same with the additional power. Adjusting the timing can produce gains of up to 5 hp at the wheels on a GA16 for instance. The amount of gain, you can expect depends on where the timing is currently set now. If it is too low you will feel a larger SOTP difference. Timing advance helps produce more power by igniting the sparks sooner, providing more time for the fuel/air mixture to burn completely, increasing cylinder pressure, thus providing more power. Remember that our engines are sensitive to timing advance and can gain quite a bit of power by adjusting the timing.


I thought it looked familiar: http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/november98/timing.shtml

If you're going to copy & paste you should at least reference the source.


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## Nostrodomas (Jun 15, 2002)

Give credit where credit is due................
At least he knows how to search......lol


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

haha.


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## Fernan Abracosa (Oct 7, 2004)

Sorry just forgot to attached the site regarding timing adjustment.

For those who's looking for the Throttle Position Sensor [TPS] which is needed for the adjustment of the timing. Here's the site.
The site also has instruction for TPS adjustment.

http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/september00/tps.shtml[/URL]


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

dun da-da-da. Noob to save teh day!!!!


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## jetsam (Feb 7, 2004)

*timing vs. money*

I spend $30 to $35 at the pump every 5 or 6 days. Maxie only gets 15 mpg.
It's worth it.

I recently spent $190 to replace my knock sensor to keep my advanced timing. That was worth it too.


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## dirrtyjave (Aug 25, 2004)

same here i spend $30 dollars every six days for high octane gas it's well worth the money if you ask me


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## Togie (Oct 28, 2004)

dirrtyjave said:


> same here i spend $30 dollars every six days for high octane gas it's well worth the money if you ask me


Got 30 mpg in 93 octane.


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## andre (Apr 30, 2002)

cHoPs said:


> ...on regular driving, 10 gallons should last you about 2 weeks(sometimes it lasts me 3)


Where, how, how often, and when are you driving??? On normal driving a tank of gas lasts me a week...I get an extra day or 2 if I drive only 4 days a week....LOL. I give you props for stretching a tank over 3 weeks. :cheers: 

Oh, and when I saw regular hit $2 a gallon here in NYC, my timing went right back to stock. I cant afford $2.3x a gallon for premium.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Bumping timing while running 87 octane fuel? Depends on how often you want to rebuild your engine.


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## Wufaded (Oct 15, 2003)

A tank of gas only lasts me about week also, sometimes just the weekend. I am all over the place sometimes  . I want advance the timing, but 93 is usually $2.40-$2.70 here. I have found a gas station nearby that consistently has lower prices than any other station, usually 7 cents cheaper. I'll do it next month....


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## Bryan200sx (Jan 23, 2003)

280 -290 to a full tank of gas and i still have about a gallon or so left when i fill it up. and that still spraying every once and a while. cant complain


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## Togie (Oct 28, 2004)

Bryan200sx said:


> 280 -290 to a full tank of gas and i still have about a gallon or so left when i fill it up. and that still spraying every once and a while. cant complain


Can I have your mileage per gallon?


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

hehe, my SR20 gets about 300+ per tank, up to 400 if I don't punch it (which almost never happens). I filled up about half a tank of 93 octane then bumped my timing up to about 19* so I can run at the track. I'm gonna bump it back down to stock today and put some 87 in once more.


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## sersr20dk (Oct 15, 2003)

i always run advanced timing and premium fuel in my sr20's, even the stock auto one. i hate the way the car feels with 87 craptane or even 89. imo it is worth the money, its not all about hp #'s, it is the throttle responce gained.


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

im gonna have to retract my previous comment and have to say that i no longer support advanced timing. i had my timing at 15* ever since i can remember, always had to pump 91 octane despite the gas prices being an all time high and what not, i always got mild to bad gas mileage...well, one day i got sick of it and retarded my timing back to stock specs, seeing as how i was basically on empty, i proceeded to go to the gas station and pump 87octane.....yea thats right, 87. added 10$ and i shit you not, i have had WAY better gas mileage, i put those 10$ last week and theyve lasted me way more than 10$ with advanced timing, and i still have about 5$ worth of gas left on those 10$. i definetaly could see the drop in power, but the drop in power doesnt really justify spending the extra money and the decreased gas mileage for me to go back.


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

I was planning on going to the track a few weeks ago, so I ran the 87 all the way down, filled up 1/4 tank with 93 octane, pushed the timing all the way up to 19* and ran at the track and got a fairly decient 15.6 (given terrible traction). The next day, I pushed the timing back to stock and filled up with 87.

Yes, I could feel an obvious difference in power and yes, it actually idled better with the timing up. But there's no way I'm paying an extra 25c a gallon for daily driving. If I had a turbo, yes, I'd definately get the good stuff.


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

and no its not being cheap if we dont pay the extra few cents...but gas prices are bad enough as they are, and do the math as to how much gas u spend on premium compared to the cheaper stuff. sure it may not seem like much each time ur at the pump....but in the long run....wow. the way i see it..91 runs about 2.60 around here, and 87 runs about 20c less... 2.40

i usually spend 10$ each time at the pump...and that lasts me about 2 weeks....so in a month, i spend roughly about 25-30$

30$/$2.60/gal=11.54 gallons
30$/$2.40/gal=12.5 gallons

doesnt seem like a whole lot right? but, our cars get pretty good gas mileage...so, dont we get an average of about 25mpg? that means every month, ur losing about 25miles to the gallon..times 12 times a year u fill up is 300miles u are losing for pretty much no extra power on daily driving. then do the math and see how much money u save too.


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## Nismo1997 (Dec 26, 2003)

I just got gas here today and I payed 2.19 for 93. Latly my car's gas mileage really sucks. I used to get like 420 but mostly around 390-400. Now im lucky to get 300. My last tank was 275


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

depending on my driving, I can get up to 400 highway, but I haven't seen those numbers in awhile.


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## Token Moron (Mar 28, 2003)

Ninety-Nine SE-L said:


> depending on my driving, I can get up to 400 highway, but I haven't seen those numbers in awhile.



its funny, i have pretty severe bad gas mileage on highway driving, driving around the city, i get to see pretty good mileage if i must say so myself..i think the problem is the way i drive on the freeway n such.


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

I get bad city mileage, maybe 250/tank.

Highway, it depends. If there are alot of tolls, I like to gun it as I leave. If it's a long drive, I jus chill w/the cruise control on. I think you can see which gets the best mileage.


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## wildmanee (Nov 21, 2004)

*Improve mileage?*

speaking of mileage, are there customizations or modifications you can do to improve the mileage of your car? 

And would common internal upgrades like exhaust systems, cold air intakes, and headers improve mileage? or not improve at all?


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## jmann98 (Aug 20, 2004)

I think just about every mod helps your gas mileage (well, not turbo or nos) because most of them just make your engine run more efficiently. In the next couple months, I'm dropping my wheel weight by 4 pounds each, tires by 4 pounds each, and am going with a 9 pound flywheel, and I'm expecting better gas mileage. It's a great way to rationalize blowing money on your car!

As for highway mileage, well, the '97 SE-R 5-speed wasn't built to maximize highway mileage, and for that I'm glad b/c it means tightly overlapping gears. But I can hardly get on the highway without thinking how nice it would be to have a 6th gear for cruising. As it is, I try to go at a sane speed so I'm not running at 4000 rpm, but you know how that goes.


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

jmann98 said:


> I think just about every mod helps your gas mileage (well, not turbo or nos) because most of them just make your engine run more efficiently.


I'm getting better mileage turbo than I was NA with all the bolt-ons. I was getting 26-28mpg at 65mph freeway driving with PR CAI, HotShot header, GReddy cat-back, and JWT S2 cams. I removed the header and installed a HotShot turbo kit (T3), and was getting 30-32mpg at 65mph. The only difference is that I installed cam gears and reduced the cam overlap by 5* to reduce the possibility of detonation. I recently replaced the GReddy with a custom 3" mandrel bent cat-back, and the mileage is still 30-32 at 65mph. 

Lew


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## wildmanee (Nov 21, 2004)

lshadoff said:


> I'm getting better mileage turbo than I was NA with all the bolt-ons. I was getting 26-28mpg at 65mph freeway driving with PR CAI, HotShot header, GReddy cat-back, and JWT S2 cams. I removed the header and installed a HotShot turbo kit (T3), and was getting 30-32mpg at 65mph. The only difference is that I installed cam gears and reduced the cam overlap by 5* to reduce the possibility of detonation. I recently replaced the GReddy with a custom 3" mandrel bent cat-back, and the mileage is still 30-32 at 65mph.
> 
> Lew


What MPG were you getting before you installed the PR CAI, hotshot header, etc etc.?

Right now I average 27 mpg per gallon.. kinda weird (but good), I guess? All I know is when I use up about 10 gallons worth of gas I fill her up again.. last time I checked I got 268 miles for 9.9 gallons.. then again, I might have used more than 9.9 gallons when I drove those 268 miles..


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

lshadoff said:


> I'm getting better mileage turbo than I was NA with all the bolt-ons. I was getting 26-28mpg at 65mph freeway driving with PR CAI, HotShot header, GReddy cat-back, and JWT S2 cams. I removed the header and installed a HotShot turbo kit (T3), and was getting 30-32mpg at 65mph. The only difference is that I installed cam gears and reduced the cam overlap by 5* to reduce the possibility of detonation. I recently replaced the GReddy with a custom 3" mandrel bent cat-back, and the mileage is still 30-32 at 65mph.
> 
> Lew


I can understand that. I'm getting better mileage with my SE-L then I did with my old 1.6. I think it's b/c when you have more power (and you're responsible) you aren't on the gas as much and you driver more conservatively. With my old GA16, I had to practically stand on the throttle to merge on the highway. Now just a little tap and I got as much power as I need. Technically, there's no way a 300hp car will be as fuel efficient as a 100hp car, however, you don't drive a 300hp car like you would drive a 100hp car.

I think it also has to do with me having a manual vs my old automatic.


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## lshadoff (Nov 26, 2002)

wildmane said:


> What MPG were you getting before you installed the PR CAI, hotshot header, etc etc.?


I purchase the car new, and used it to commute to law school (50 miles each way). I was getting 30-32mpg stock. The CAI and exhaust (header and cat-back) didn't affect the highway mileage. The addition of the cams dropped the highway mileage to 26-28mpg.

I'm think that changing the cam overlap when I put on the turbo is what increased the mileage (though the added back-pressure of the turbo may have played a role). I also noticed that the engine idled better than pre-turbo.

Lew


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