# Superchgr and Turbochgr Is It Possible??



## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

OK I am not even for sure where to look this up on the internet because I can't even think of a simple way to search for this topic so I am asking you guys here because well I trust I'll get some decent info or places to look for good enough. Ok my friend has a mustang putting a V8 in it which isn't anything big. The thing that I am not 100% on he said he is going to have twin turbos and a supercharger on it. And if I remeber correctly he said he was going to have the turbo feeding the supercharger. I'm not Mr. Forced Induction Super Genius but to me it doesn't seem feasible or even necessary to run forced inductioned air into another system that will essentially do the same thing. Something tells me either one system isnt necessary or the engine will explode or that all that air wont make it to the chamber. Now for my own basic knowledge and to see if he is being retarded or not is this even possible and if it is what are the pros and cons to and what will he need to do to his car so that he doesnt ruin it.


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## Blu200SX (Jul 22, 2002)

Definetly NOT possible


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## HKS20DET (Nov 8, 2002)

good question


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

he is 19 him and his friend swear they know everything and wont admit when they don't know something. But it just sounds absolutely absurd to me to run both turbo and super charger especially because turbos need a certain amount of RPM's (usually high) to kick in depending on how its tuned and superchargers if i remember correctly work on the lower band of RPMs but somebody correct me please if I am wrong in that


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## dave_f (Dec 11, 2002)

yes it is possible... is it necessary... well that all a matter of opinion. Last years ultimate street car challenge featured a Toyota MR2 that had a super and turbo charger. 
-dave


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## Blu200SX (Jul 22, 2002)

man, well i guess i dont know what i am talking about, i didnt think it was possible and if so then its TOOO much labor and time and bullshit


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

ok so exactly how does that work out then with both systems I am not quite clear on that


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

Here is another thing I am wondering is the effectiveness of running both as opposed to one or the other.


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## Blu200SX (Jul 22, 2002)

just tell your friend to get a Vortech Supercharger and leave it at that


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

the supercharger handles pressure off the line and when the rpms are high enough the turbo kicks in... there's pictures of a skyline with a TT supercharger setup somewhere, it's pretty nice... no need for that kind of power for me! well maybe...


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

ok now that makes sense but here is what his ass keeps talking about he says he wants twin turbos and a supercharger and have the turbo feeding the supercharger - so for one he says backwards and probably doesnt even realize it. Also if you have twin turbos doesnt one of them work for the lower end of RPM's creating no need for the supercharger or could they work with each in the same range of RPM's


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2003)

Detroit v8 diesel got them on their engines (twin turbo/supercharge air to water aftercooler). I know because that's what we use in small boats in the Navy. The turbo feed the supercharger with a denser air after it passed the aftercooler.
It can be done on a gasoline v8's; but a lot of work.


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## Blu200SX (Jul 22, 2002)

is your friend rich?


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

what exactly has to be done and about how much would that cost roughly?

I wonder what the HP and TQ difference would by having the turbo feed the supercharger vs just have a supercharger vs just having a turbo for the lower end of power? 

Wait isn't denser air hotter therefore not as effective with forced induction?


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

not rich trying to get a loan and alledgedly has a hook-up he says he can get this done and a new quickshift transmission done for 4000 I find that highly suspicious of a hook-up since i know the hotshot turbo for 1.6L is 3700 twin turbos a supercharger a quickshift tranny and everything needed for it alledgedly for 4000 either bullcrap or a shady mechanic I wouldn't trust that personally but whatever


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## Blu200SX (Jul 22, 2002)

dont expect your buddy getting this work done on his car, it sounds like one of those things that you would like to do to your ride but will never happen. I would say for him to prepare to spend about 10 grand on everything he will need. Lets say he does get this done , His car will go to shit very quickly because all of the maitenence and babysitting the turbos need on a daily basis.


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

ok here is another question i have in this if the point of forced induction is to compress the air then feed that compressed air into the chamber = more air bigger explosion etc etc. Now if the air is already compressed by the turbocharger is the supercharger actually able to to compress that air even further and add more to it. The reason why I ask is I am not seeing the point or the effectiveness of having the turbo feed the supercharger sounds like having an unnecessary middleman.


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

blu trust me that boys car is in the shop enough as it is. He abuses the thing ridiculously it spends more time in the shop than on the road which will get worse with his stupidity and with what you stated up above more moving parts more moving more maintenance etc etc you dont ever see anyone keeping up on a rock LOL J/K trust me the rest of my friends thinks he is going to blow up his engine. He bought an auto V6 mustang and now is doing all this shit to it because he has some sort of ego issue.


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## himilefrontier (Jan 21, 2003)

If it were my Mustang, I'd just run a centrifugal blower on it.But getting back to the subject at hand, In my estimation it would cost $25-30,000 to get it set up right.If he's using a stock Windsor block(either short deck 221-302 or tall deck 351) the stock block will crack the valley at around 650-700 hp, if the mains and crank don't go south first.The short block alone to support the 1500-2000 hp you would need to make in order to make it worth doing would cost nearly $10k,and then you need to work on fuel and spark management!Plus, you need to strengthen the chassis, get a Lenco or maybe a Jerico trnasmission ,a custom rearend, massive fuel pumps etc.If all he wants is a fast street car why go through all this complication?A Vortech or Paxton blown 302 (5.0) would make it a fast street car and set up right could get him into the 11's using all bolt on parts!


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## Blu200SX (Jul 22, 2002)

his buddy has no idea what he is in for...lol


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

Thanks for that Info Himile I figured it would be alot more too it then what he was saying just wasnt for sure about what exactly it would take


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

Blu he sure doesnt know what he is in for and I knew that just no to what extent. If anyone has a response to one of my other questions. 

Is it really effective to have the turbo feed the supercharger since the whole point is to compress the air and force it in the chamber hence 'forced induction' - but after the air is already compressed by the turbo will it really do any good to have the supercharger do the same thing? will it compress it more and add more air to it or is it a pointless middleman?


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2003)

actually, diesel tractors have been compound boosting for years.

ever see them when the black smoke pours out the top off the stacks?? they actually have 2 turbo's, 1 feeding the other, not 2 feeding the same intake manifold. they have 1 small one and a huge sized turbo. the small one basically spools the big one and loads it with say 20psi. the next turbo then takes that 20 psi and compressess it to 60psi.

keep in mind, this is done on a diesel and is very expensive.

to do this on a car would be stupid. my 2 cents.


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

NX-DET Thanks I was waiting for some one to answer that one. I wasnt for sure if once it was compressed if the next forced induction would be able to compress it further. Having a turbo feed a another turbo didnt sound right to me for car purposes. Having a supercharger or small turbo for low end power then having a big turbo take over on higher end power makes sense. but having a turbo feed a superchager on the low end on a car just didnt sound right to me. I do appreciate all the info from everyone. You said it would be very expensive to do himile gave the estimate of 25-30K would you say this would be about right?


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## Blu200SX (Jul 22, 2002)

just tell your friend to put a single turbo in


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

Blu i would agree a single turbo or single supercharger even maybe go as faster as having a turbo or super for low end big turbo for high end but he wont listen i know he wont so i wont even bother i'll sit back and watch - personally i wish i had the money spare id buy an old school mustang and work on that old school mustangs are more my style not caring for anything post 70's just me. Other than that i'll stick with my nissan.


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## PrOxLaMuS© (Aug 11, 2002)

> Wait isn't denser air hotter therefore not as effective with forced induction?


 Denser thicker air, is cooler. Thats why whenever is really cold outside, or you put ice on your cool air intake, your engine runs stronger.
Thats also why Pilots.... like I will be in a few weeks, fly better and easier in cold air, cuz our wings can float of the thicker air.
In hot air, the planes fly sluggish, poorly, and inefficently.

However, when that cold, dense air gets compressed, a whole bunch, what happens is the friciton causes heat. So really really compressed air, like 20psi does produce heat, b/c of friction.

But then again thats what Cool Air Intake and an Intercooler and Wet CO2 or NO2 is for.


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## Rama (Mar 8, 2003)

you know what you are right i forgot heat expands and cold shrinks there fore cold air would be denser however the cold air thing gets thrown out the window with performance once you talk about fighter jets since the denser air limits their speeds and they have to climb altitude but thats mainly because they would rip apart trying to hit mach 2 at low levels darn thick air


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