# JenJenZ part 2



## Touring0350z (Jan 20, 2005)

Ok since the other thread got hijacked by yours truely. Lets try this again without all the crap.


Please post up links to comapnies that offer single or twin turbo setups for the 350z's. 

Also if there are any other noticable mods that can be shared please contribute.


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## White_lightning (Jan 20, 2005)

Touring0350z said:


> Ok since the other thread got hijacked by yours truely. Lets try this again without all the crap.
> 
> 
> Please post up links to comapnies that offer single or twin turbo setups for the 350z's.
> ...


if you want to make your 350z really fast... push it ooff a cliff and get a car that will make real power


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## Jeff (Oct 17, 2002)

Just so you have links in the same thread...here is that comparison again between 2 TT setups for the 350z.

http://www.lightspeedperformance.cc/greddyvsaps.htm
:thumbup:


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## Jeff (Oct 17, 2002)

White_lightning said:


> if you want to make your 350z really fast... push it ooff a cliff and get a car that will make real power


Can you respect his wish to keep the thread on topic?


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## Touring0350z (Jan 20, 2005)

White_L I will race you after my clutch and you can brake boost all you want boy 

As for the single turbo kit. Does anyone have the single T61 kit on their car and daily drive it? Is there a lot of turbo lag with that size turbo on this small of a motor? I know for my g/f's Z and Jen's Z they don't want pure race and don't need turbo lag.


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## Andrew91GT (Jan 20, 2005)

MrEous said:


> Can you respect his wish to keep the thread on topic?


I was noticed! 

On topic, what is the largest single turbo that is practical for a 350z? I'm talking street/strip with more of an emphasis on strip. What kind of spooling issues are faced? Is it possible to run a large single (PT-76GTS or PT-88) without nitrous to spool the turbo?


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## Touring0350z (Jan 20, 2005)

I am guessing anything that large will have a hard time spooling without the added effort. There isn't a lot of cubes in the Z motor so unless otherwise proven I would think its too much for a street car but not for a strip car.


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

Touring0350z said:


> White_L I will race you after my clutch and you can brake boost all you want boy
> 
> As for the single turbo kit. Does anyone have the single T61 kit on their car and daily drive it? Is there a lot of turbo lag with that size turbo on this small of a motor? I know for my g/f's Z and Jen's Z they don't want pure race and don't need turbo lag.


A single turbo set up is not as efficent as a twin turbo set up for the 350Z (V6 engine). Now if the Z had a inline engine then the single turbo would be highly recommended.


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## Jeff (Oct 17, 2002)

...ala Supras' Inline6?


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## Andrew91GT (Jan 20, 2005)

Spongerider said:


> A single turbo set up is not as efficent as a twin turbo set up for the 350Z (V6 engine). Now if the Z had a inline engine then the single turbo would be highly recommended.


It shouldn't really make an efficiency difference going from twins to a single if the turbos are sized properly. Granted, with a V6 you have the extra expense of fabricating a crossover pipe and merge collector but that's still (generally) cheaper than a second turbo, wastegate and downpipe. Twins also generally take up more room than a big single. If you buy twin turbochargers with integrated wastegates vs. a larger single with an external wastegate it's less of a cost issue and more personal preference. Perhaps it might in certain cases be easier to package small twin turbos in a stock engine compartment than a large single.


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

Andrew91GT said:


> It shouldn't really make an efficiency difference going from twins to a single if the turbos are sized properly. Granted, with a V6 you have the extra expense of fabricating a crossover pipe and merge collector but that's still (generally) cheaper than a second turbo, wastegate and downpipe. Twins also generally take up more room than a big single. If you buy twin turbochargers with integrated wastegates vs. a larger single with an external wastegate it's less of a cost issue and more personal preference. Perhaps it might in certain cases be easier to package small twin turbos in a stock engine compartment than a large single.


Think about it? In a V6 there will be unequal length pipping= lag. Not only that cylinder temp will vary becuase of the pipping making it inefficient unlike a inline. Do you get it now?


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## Andrew91GT (Jan 20, 2005)

Spongerider said:


> Think about it? In a V6 there will be unequal length pipping= lag. Not only that cylinder temp will vary becuase of the pipping making it inefficient unlike a inline. Do you get it now?


I'm not sure that unequal length piping will cause any significant lag. Turbos are spooled by exhaust velocity as well as heat energy. If you were to ceramic coat mild steel exhaust or use 321 stainless, you will keep a large percentage of the heat in the exhaust stream and thus the velocity will remain high. How many feet/second does exhaust move at WOT, and does an extra 2 feet of piping really make a difference?

If unequal length piping caused that much of a problem then people wouldn't use log style or unequal length headers in their turbo systems. I'm building a smallblock ford engine with unequal stainless headers and a single PT-106 and yes, there will be some delay in spooling the turbo, but it will be because of the large turbine housing (won't cause excess backpressure on the top end of the track and will not limit power production as a result) and compressor wheel size, and not a function of it being a single turbo system as opposed to a dual turbocharger kit.

Taking this to the extreme, you can examine the single turbo F-body kit where the turbocharger is located near the rearend of the car. While power production is limited by the exhaust energy that can be delivered to the turbine (extremely long pipes dissipate heat) proper sizing of the turbine housing causes spool rpm to be quite reasonable for a street car.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Single turbo is still better in the V6 case. There is a single turbo kit available for the Z33 as of right now. Problem is you can't boost to much on stock internals so the Greddy TT kit will be best(while on the stock bottom end). In fact I would only recommend the Greddy TT kit as far as turbo kits. S/Cs don't make the power the turbo kits make, and from personal experience anything other then the Vortex S/C is crap.

Stay away from Stillen there parts aren't making power on the dynos like they have been claiming. 

I personally know Doug and am friends with two of the guys at Crawford Z that are working on the new parts. And very very soon Crawford will be making a "tune-up" kit that will make atleast 300rwhp NA. 


As far as everyone here being ricers alot of us are far from it. 

And if I was in Dallas I would be game as soon as my Z is back on the road. But I think I can get a TT in Dallas to race your FRC.

Also what mods do you have done to it? One of my friends is either getting an FRC Vette or an SS here pretty soon.


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## Touring0350z (Jan 20, 2005)

JAMESZ said:


> Single turbo is still better in the V6 case. There is a single turbo kit available for the Z33 as of right now (while on the stock bottom end). Problem is you can't boost to much on stock internals so the Greddy TT kit will be best. In fact I would only recommend the Greddy TT kit as far as turbo kits. S/Cs don't make the power the turbo kits make, and from personal experience anything other then the Vortex S/C is crap.
> 
> Stay away from Stillen there parts aren't making power on the dynos like they have been claiming.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the input.

I have mildly ported heads, fairly large cam on a non aggresive Lunati grind so it drives like a small cam and makes power like a bigger cam, LG Pro exhaust, vararam intake and LS6 intake manifold. Everything else is stock. It made 421/385 through cats with my previous heads. I make more mph with the smaller heads now in the 1/8mile so I must have increased area under the curve or peak hp still untuned. I'm leaning towards the 430/390 mark after I get the clutch in and have time to retune the car. There will be a tuned 150 shot on top of the N/A after the clutch goes in. Oh yeah and the cats are coming off this time around.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Touring0350z said:


> Thank you for the input.
> 
> I have mildly ported heads, fairly large cam on a non aggresive Lunati grind so it drives like a small cam and makes power like a bigger cam, LG Pro exhaust, vararam intake and LS6 intake manifold. Everything else is stock. It made 421/385 through cats with my previous heads. I make more mph with the smaller heads now in the 1/8mile so I must have increased area under the curve or peak hp still untuned. I'm leaning towards the 430/390 mark after I get the clutch in and have time to retune the car. There will be a tuned 150 shot on top of the N/A after the clutch goes in. Oh yeah and the cats are coming off this time around.


 So right now you're making about as much much power as a Z06. Which we all know the LS6 is a bit underrated.....  Don't get me wrong, I like corvettes as much as any sports car lover, it just doesn't happen to be my personal choice for modding. Mostly due to money constraints. I'm pushing right about 300 Hp now for a grand total of about $100, so I think I'm doing pretty good in the power/money spent ratio, considering it had 200 Hp to start with. :cheers:


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Thats quite a bit more then a Z06. 70mph up must be insane on your car.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Thats quite a bit more then a Z06. 70mph up must be insane on your car.


 405 to 430ish Hp isn't that big a jump. The LS6 had the same Hp as the final year ZR1 LT5 motor, last year. I beleive the early model Z06s had 385 hp.......And the LS1/LS6s were underrated a bit, maybe about 5-7% or a bit more.


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## Andrew91GT (Jan 20, 2005)

JAMESZ said:


> Thats quite a bit more then a Z06. 70mph up must be insane on your car.


You are correct. My daily is a 2002 Z06. Stock it made 353 rwhp (comes out to 415 bhp if you assume 15% loss). I have since put TPIS longtubes, magnaflow off road x pipe, borla stilnger catback, and a vortex ram air intake. In that configuration it dynoed 377 rwhp without tuning (autotap showed 22 degrees total timing, people typically run 28-29 with these cars so I'm hoping for close to 390 rwhp tuned). Touring's car walks away from mine, though I did beat him at the local 1/8 mile track on a holeshot (he was getting ready to come around me big time though - 1/4 mile he would have owned me)!


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Andrew91GT said:


> You are correct. My daily is a 2002 Z06. Stock it made 353 rwhp (comes out to 415 bhp if you assume 15% loss). I have since put TPIS longtubes, magnaflow off road x pipe, borla stilnger catback, and a vortex ram air intake. In that configuration it dynoed 377 rwhp without tuning (autotap showed 22 degrees total timing, people typically run 28-29 with these cars so I'm hoping for close to 390 rwhp tuned). Touring's car walks away from mine, though I did beat him at the local 1/8 mile track on a holeshot (he was getting ready to come around me big time though - 1/4 mile he would have owned me)!


Any plans to upgrade to a C6 Z06 when they pop up? Should be soon....... 

500 Hp, stock, will be insane. :crazy:


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## Jeff (Oct 17, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> 405 to 430ish Hp isn't that big a jump. The LS6 had the same Hp as the final year ZR1 LT5 motor, last year. I beleive the early model Z06s had 385 hp.......And the LS1/LS6s were underrated a bit, maybe about 5-7% or a bit more.


I am assuming he is talking about 430hp to the wheels...not crank. The 405hp figure for the Zo6s was at the crank...so about 350 to the wheels. I know I'd feel a difference if my engine jumped +80whp.


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## Andrew91GT (Jan 20, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Any plans to upgrade to a C6 Z06 when they pop up? Should be soon.......
> 
> 500 Hp, stock, will be insane. :crazy:



Man, I'd love to but I really don't think I can swing the payments... Titanium rods, dry sump oiling, carbon fiber body panels... I bet it will be $65-75K.

And I have a foxbody mustang racecar to finish building!


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

MrEous said:


> I am assuming he is talking about 430hp to the wheels...not crank. The 405hp figure for the Zo6s was at the crank...so about 360-370 to the wheels. I know I'd feel a difference if my engine jumped +60-70whp.


 He just said 353 on the wheels, stock.


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## Jeff (Oct 17, 2002)

Thus the 91GT in your screenname? :thumbup:


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## Jeff (Oct 17, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> He just said 353 on the wheels, stock.


I guess you're right...350 to the wheels sounds more stock. I'll update my previous post.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Andrew91GT said:


> Man, I'd love to but I really don't think I can swing the payments... Titanium rods, dry sump oiling, carbon fiber body panels... I bet it will be $65-75K.
> 
> And I have a foxbody mustang racecar to finish building!


 $70k is supposed to be it's MSRP, of course the dealerships will make sure they get their cut.....  

Whatya got in that foxy anyway. You mentioned a turbo.


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## Andrew91GT (Jan 20, 2005)

MrEous said:


> Thus the 91GT in your screenname? :thumbup:


Yup!

[email protected], there was a poll on Z06vette.com about how much power their stock car dynoed... the average (for 405hp models) seemed to be around 350 rwhp with some factory freaks dynoing 360 rwhp.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Andrew91GT said:


> Yup!
> 
> [email protected], there was a poll on Z06vette.com about how much power their stock car dynoed... the average (for 405hp models) seemed to be around 350 rwhp with some factory freaks dynoing 360 rwhp.


Factory freaks indeed, or GM testing cam profiles is what it sounds more like. Same with ZR1s, some dynoed considerably more than others.......

EDIT: though that was Mercruisers fault more than GMs.


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## Andrew91GT (Jan 20, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> $70k is supposed to be it's MSRP, of course the dealerships will make sure they get their cut.....
> 
> Whatya got in that foxy anyway. You mentioned a turbo.


It's an SFI 25.5 chassis (new requirement for 7.50 ET's) with a 430 CID Aluminum Steve Petty motor (currently being built - 4.135" bore, 4" stroke. Aluminum rods, forged lunati gundrilled crank, etc), TEA Edelbrock Victor heads (386/312 cfm @ 0.8" lift), custom Steve Petty solid roller, TEA Super Victor intake converted for fuel injection, PTK stainless turbo headers (1 7/8" primaries, 3" collectors), PT-106 turbocharger, in-car air/water intercooler, lockup powerglide transmission, ladderbars, 72" wheeliebars. I'm probably forgetting something.... I'm currently (this weekend) putting the ladderbars on so I can finish the minitubs. I'm going to try to fit a 31 x 10.5W tire on the car if I can to run the local 10.5W outlaw stuff (Texas king of the hill). I'm also going to race Texas True Ten 5 limited street outlaw (29.5 x 10.5 Non W tire). I'm hoping for some 4.70 ET's on the W tires, and maybe a 4.90 on the true 10.5's, but time will tell. Making the power won't be the hard part, putting it to the ground will be.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Andrew91GT said:


> It's an SFI 25.5 chassis (new requirement for 7.50 ET's) with a 430 CID Aluminum Steve Petty motor (currently being built - 4.135" bore, 4" stroke. Aluminum rods, forged lunati gundrilled crank, etc), TEA Edelbrock Victor heads (386/312 cfm @ 0.8" lift), custom Steve Petty solid roller, TEA Super Victor intake converted for fuel injection, PTK stainless turbo headers (1 7/8" primaries, 3" collectors), PT-106 turbocharger, in-car air/water intercooler, lockup powerglide transmission, ladderbars, 72" wheeliebars. I'm probably forgetting something.... I'm currently (this weekend) putting the ladderbars on so I can finish the minitubs. I'm going to try to fit a 31 x 10.5W tire on the car if I can to run the local 10.5W outlaw stuff (Texas king of the hill). I'm also going to race Texas True Ten 5 limited street outlaw (29.5 x 10.5 Non W tire). I'm hoping for some 4.70 ET's on the W tires, and maybe a 4.90 on the true 10.5's, but time will tell. Making the power won't be the hard part, putting it to the ground will be.


That's insane, congrats. :cheers: But I doubt it's anywhere near streetable. No offense, but I like to drive my cars to the track and drive them home afterwards. Even if it means I go slower than you, it's just more fun, IMO.....


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## Andrew91GT (Jan 20, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> That's insane, congrats. :cheers: But I doubt it's anywhere near streetable. No offense, but I like to drive my cars to the track and drive them home afterwards. Even if it means I go slower than you, it's just more fun, IMO.....


The old setup that I posted vids of in the other (locked) thread was streetable. It was a 347 with a homebuilt PT-88 kit and air/water intercooler. Ran 8.9's in the 1/4 on drag radials (1/8 mile time of 5.9). It went 5.5's in the 1/8th on slicks, which should have been around an 8.4-8.5 in the 1/4 on slicks. I liked driving it on the street, but Texas passed a law that made street racing a felony, plus I got the bug for more speed so the new setup is going to be track only (aluminum rods don't exactly make for a grocery getter, LOL).


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## Touring0350z (Jan 20, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> So right now you're making about as much much power as a Z06. Which we all know the LS6 is a bit underrated.....  Don't get me wrong, I like corvettes as much as any sports car lover, it just doesn't happen to be my personal choice for modding. Mostly due to money constraints. I'm pushing right about 300 Hp now for a grand total of about $100, so I think I'm doing pretty good in the power/money spent ratio, considering it had 200 Hp to start with. :cheers:



I'm making considerably more power then a ZO6, roughly 60rwhp more. I have $25k in my car total including buying it so cost per hp and performance ratio I would say is right on budget.

My 421/385 was at the wheels not the crank. with 15% drivetrane loss that equates right at 495 hp @ crank 452 torque @ crank. Take into consideration a regular C5 vette dyno's roughly 300rwhp, so with very midly ported stock heads and a cam and exhaust I pipcked up 121rwhp while through catalytic converters which will be coming off. There is more power in this current combo.

From 70mph up is where these car shines. The vararam air intake claims to build boost in the 1/4 from its design and aerodynamics of the vette. 3rd & 4th gear feel as strong or stronger then 1st & 2nd. Other friends with identicle C5's and simialr mods with less power have reached almsot 200mph before the ran out of straight road so that suggests my car is a 200mph potential car if I had the land to try.


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

do you 2 have car domain sites or pics? i wouldnt mind checking them out. i like looking at big ol' domestic engine bay mess :thumbup: and your cars sound like beasts.


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## Touring0350z (Jan 20, 2005)

1.6pete said:


> do you 2 have car domain sites or pics? i wouldnt mind checking them out. i like looking at big ol' domestic engine bay mess :thumbup: and your cars sound like beasts.



There will be updates to our current site as soon as I have the chance to move and setup my pc to make the changes.

currently my car and andrews web page are not updated, nor are any of our other members cars, for our current setups. but feel free to visit http://www.bonestockracing.com and you will see a couple background pics of Andrews car on his page w/ no info. My former slow mustang is in there also under Tweakd.


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

^^ alright thanks :cheers:


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## Andrew91GT (Jan 20, 2005)

You can check out 

http://www.yerot.com/~aweil/pictures

and

http://www.yerot.com/~aweil/movies

for info... it spans a large time frame with multiple combos though.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Both of you have awesome cars. There are some Zs here that might give you a run, and a few other little turbo cars.  


I really need to finish my car...


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

I like fast cars, but all I really want for mine is streetable 12s, 11s, maybe even 10's. Heck , that's more than enough to take out most of the cars at the track I go to, even the trailer queens. Altitude really kills NA cars, a lot of the guy think they are fast, like I said in the other thread with the 15 second C5....but they really aren't. Boost rules up here, no question. NA cars lose at least 10% of their Hp up here, maybe more. BTW, it's 5500 feet where the track is. Heck, I've beaten WS6s and C5s in a high 14s car, and I know they are much faster than that.......


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Touring0350z said:


> Ok since the other thread got hijacked by yours truely. Lets try this again without all the crap.
> 
> 
> Please post up links to comapnies that offer single or twin turbo setups for the 350z's.
> ...


Greddy makes a twin turbo set up for the Z, So does power interprises. JWT is coming out with theirs soon. Turbonetics has a single turbo setup. I have driven all of these kits except turbonetics and have found the JWT kit the least laggy and most responsive by far. The PE kit was disapointingly laggy. THe Greddy kit was somewhat laggy as well. The turbonetics kits supposeldy has very little lag. I have conserns about the turbo cooking off things in the engine bay with the turbonetics kit. All these kits have the potential for over 500 whp if the bottom end of the motor is built and with proper engine managment.

The VQ35 has an open deck and fragile pistons and rods, not the greatest for boosted oiperation. I would be wary of more than 10 psi for long. At under 10 psi you are looking at max power of around 380 from these kits or so on 91 octane pump gas.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> Both of you have awesome cars. There are some Zs here that might give you a run, and a few other little turbo cars.
> 
> 
> I really need to finish my car...


My Z32 has a current dyno proven 575 whp and 549 lb/ft of torque. I am going to screw around with my wastegate actuators so I can get a few more lbs of boost, currently only getting 22 psi because I set the preload on the cans too low. I think for sure I can easily get around 620 whp with the tweaks. I also have bigger turbos but am waiting on new exhaust manifolds. These should put me in the very high 600 wheel hp range.

Too bad though, its so hard to drive the car. It can probably run 10's if it could even half way hook up. it has a road racing button clutch so it doesnt launch. Its hard to drive on a road course as well, scary, I am not a good enough driver to even come close to exploting its potential.

I am currently building a lightweight Z32 road race car which will be identical to my street car except it will weight hopefuly only 2700 lbs. I think I am only going for 450 bolt on hp. More than that is too hard to handle for my skill level.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> My Z32 has a current dyno proven 575 whp and 549 lb/ft of torque. I am going to screw around with my wastegate actuators so I can get a few more lbs of boost, currently only getting 22 psi because I set the preload on the cans too low. I think for sure I can easily get around 620 whp with the tweaks. I also have bigger turbos but am waiting on new exhaust manifolds. These should put me in the very high 600 wheel hp range.
> 
> Too bad though, its so hard to drive the car. It can probably run 10's if it could even half way hook up. it has a road racing button clutch so it doesnt launch. Its hard to drive on a road course as well, scary, I am not a good enough driver to even come close to exploting its potential.
> 
> I am currently building a lightweight Z32 road race car which will be identical to my street car except it will weight hopefuly only 2700 lbs. I think I am only going for 450 bolt on hp. More than that is too hard to handle for my skill level.


I remember reading about your Z32 awhile back. I must say it is very impressive. What clutch are you running? One of my friends has a Tilton set-up in his 350Z for road racing and it is at best embarrasing to drive it around and even worse to launch it.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> I remember reading about your Z32 awhile back. I must say it is very impressive. What clutch are you running? One of my friends has a Tilton set-up in his 350Z for road racing and it is at best embarrasing to drive it around and even worse to launch it.


JWT twin kevlar disc. Used to have a varbon carbon clutch but it burned up.


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