# Does Seafoam Clean Oil Galleys?



## Grug (Aug 20, 2009)

As far as the infamous timing chain rattle goes, could it be possible that there is a gunked up oil galley that feeds the tensioner? If that was the case, could Seafoam or some other oil additive clean it out?

As a rule, I don't like to dump anything but oil in the case and gas in the tank, but I was thinkin' maybe, just maybe if I had a restricted galley and I could get it opened up... 

Kinda' like takin' Aspirin as a blood thinner if your arteries are clogged up...or a coupla' glasses of red wine everyday. Hmmm, could a fella' substitute beer or dark rum for red wine. Hmmm.

:givebeer:


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## zanegrey (Dec 5, 2005)

sea faom is good stuff but why not just pull the valve cover and look down the galleys...


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## Grug (Aug 20, 2009)

I didn't know that was even an option. 

I've never had the valve cover off. So will it be quite obvious where the hole(s) are once I get the cover off? And will any gunking (not too sure if that's a word) also be quite obvious?

Also, if a fella' has the cover off, I'm assuming you'd have to replace the valve cover gasket with a new one. Would you also have to replace those two half moon gaskets?


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## zanegrey (Dec 5, 2005)

the galleys are easily seen..

blow some air down the galleys or make a tool ..

the gasket is a rubber peice tha can be re used as long as it is not damaged..

if the moons are pulled oose then just clean up the surface and lightly silicone them in place..


you can use a light smear of silicone on the vcg but if you clean it real well you do not need it...


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## zanegrey (Dec 5, 2005)

if the chain was replaced and it still rattles then it is most likely the chain and its components were not install correctly or maybe over siliconed things that were not to be siliconed..

if the chain is rattiling and u have not changed the t-chain then there is likely not to be any other reason other than the chain and its components..


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## Grug (Aug 20, 2009)

Thanks for the tips, Zane.

Well, the chain hasn't been replaced (at least not to my knowledge).

So lets get into the physics of this thing. Why exactly does this rattle develop? I understand that when the tensioner receives adequate oil pressure it will hold the chain where it's supposed to be held (travelling smoothly in the guides). Is the underlying problem for all these Nissan engines the tensioner (assuming of course that there is good oil pressure)? This whole timing chain rattle seems to be a fairly common thread on various Nissan sites.

Or is there some other engine component that wears or breaks and the rattle starts? I'd read somewhere that Nissan put out a 'Bulletin' regarding this issue, but not a Recall. Was it a flawed part? A flawed design? I've heard people describe the ka24e as a 'workhorse of the Nissan barn'. Before my current truck, I had a '93 2WD ka24e that had about 150K on it when I sold it and the rattle was never an issue for the 9 years I owned the truck. 

Anyways, if you have any insight, I'd appreciate hearing it.


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## smikster (Aug 12, 2008)

if you have some miles a good flush wont hurt...i would say then run some 0w20 for 500-1k but i'm not sure if our motors would like that...the ones i've woked on just dont like thin oil


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## cjserio (Mar 18, 2008)

Grug said:


> Thanks for the tips, Zane.
> 
> Well, the chain hasn't been replaced (at least not to my knowledge).
> 
> ...


I don't think you mentioned what year your current truck is but before 1995, the timing chain guides were made of plastic and over time they would begin to crack and some of them even fell apart completely landing in the oil pan. When that happens you get a bad rattle. Supposedly in 1995 and later, they begin using metal components so this wasn't as much of an issue.

There are other reasons for the rattle I guess but that's the most talked about reason. Other reasons are bad tensioners and stretched chains. I just recently had my timing chain replaced. The components look new but they're original and they have 170k miles on them yet it rattled for 3-5 seconds everytime i started the truck so who knows.


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## Grug (Aug 20, 2009)

Well, my truck is a '97 so I guess I would not have the plastic guides.

Wouldn't a properly functioning tensioner be able to compensate for a chain that was slightly stretched? Or maybe the chain gets stretched beyond the point where the tensioner can tension it, but then wouldn't you hear it all the time? I'm no mechanic, but it seems like the problems seem to stem from the tensioner. Again the physics of this thing have me kinda' confused.

So you had your chain replaced because of the rattle? Was it all the time or only on start-up for a few seconds? I've read a coupla' threads where guys have lived with the start-up rattle for a long time (or at least as long as it only took place on start-up). Interestingly enough, mine seems to rattle more on warm start ups and less on cold startups (which seems to contradict what I've read so far on timing chain rattle).

I've read other threads where folks had the timing chain fix done and within a few thousand miles...it was back!

Is your rattle gone?


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## cjserio (Mar 18, 2008)

In my case, the rattle was only on startup, only for a few seconds and only when the engine was cold or cool. If i ran into a store and came right back out to start the truck, there was no rattle. The engine has 170k miles on it and if it's taken care of, i can probably get another 100k out of it from what I read on this forum so i decided against trying to see how long i could live with the rattle.

I replaced the timing chain, all guides, the tensioner, cam and crank sprockets and oil pump. I figured it was cheap insurance against ever having to go in there again. The rattle is completely gone now.


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## white toy (Feb 5, 2009)

Yeah my truck sounded like it just rolled off the showroom floor after all new timing parts and a good engine cleaning. No loud noise at startup now either. Found bits of guides, tension bolts, etc when i removed the oil pan. But i did buy it cheap and knew it would be a project truck.


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## Hardbody97 (Feb 9, 2006)

I have a 1997 with 107k miles, and I have the rattle at cold startup only. It lasts about a second after the car has been sitting over night. It might last a tad longer if it has been sitting for several days. I don't remember when I first noticed the rattle, but it was probably around 90k after I left my truck sitting for an entire week or 2. I have used non-Nissan oil filters and sometimes Fram oil filters over the life of the engine. I'm going to switch to Nissan brand at my next oil change and see if it makes a difference. I don't see why there is any hurry to change the timing chain because what's going to break catastrophically with the updated metal guides? I plan to monitor the sound to see if it gets worse.

You can buy the Cloyes timing chain kit for $75 (Amazon). The part number is 9-4163S. This kit includes the sprockets. The Nissan timing chain kit for $345 includes the water pump, belts, and thermostat--but it does not include the sprockets. They run an additional $56 from Nissan. The Nissan tensioner by itself is $70. I really wonder if it is necessary to change the sprockets at all. Do they wear out? As someone has mentioned, the slack chain can be slipped over the sprockets without removing them.


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## Hardbody97 (Feb 9, 2006)

To clarify 1 of my points--I read a submittal from someone who stated that their guides had totally broken and fallen out (they were the all-plastic versions)--and their engine still ran without interference. If this is true, then what's the danger--aside from the inconvenience? Anybody know?

It seems that the tensioner or the oil galley between the oil filter and the tensioner are the primary culprits. It would be great to know if Sea Foam or some other additive would clear up these problems.


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## Grug (Aug 20, 2009)

I've read that when the chain starts to flop around too much it can beat a hole in the water jacket or in the timing cover itself. But I would think that by that point you'd be hearing the rattle pretty much all the time.

I went to a Wix oil filter and noticed pretty much no difference in the rattle. I've read that the Wix filters are right up there with Nisaan OEM filters (I've also read to stay away from Fram).

If in fact the galley between the tensioner and the oil filter mount was the culprit, could a fella' not blow a little compressed air (not too much, though) through the galley via the oil filter end and clean out the tensioner?

I also wondered if changing the sprockets was necessary, but opinion seems to be leaning toward changing them out if you've got everything ripped apart anyway. I wondered if changing them was necessary as it seems like aftermarket stuff never holds up like the original equipment. I've also read that people are changing the chain without pulling the sprockets (just enough slack in the chain).

The various kits I've looked into are either complete or very specific. In fact, Canadian Tire will sell you as little as one guide...not that I would go that route. Some kits even offer lifetime warranties...can't get much better than that.

I'm with you, I think the tensioner or gummed up galleys must be the ultimate cause of these timing chain issues (again, I'm no mechanic, though). Too bad a fella' couldn't somehow change out just the tensioner without having to rip everything apart.

I hope to gather enough opinions and information over the course of the winter to decide how I'm gonna' approach this next summer. 

Finally, I've read that one of the biggest issues with installing a new kit is that the guides are not installed correctly. Apparently, they must be forced out as far as they go before you screw 'em down...I think that's right. I wonder if that's why I've read a number of posts of how people have the rattle come back after only a few thousand miles?

Maybe I should do a thesis on this topic, eh?


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## zanegrey (Dec 5, 2005)

it is because they have not done it correctly..

why would u do that.. the info is here as concise as u can find it..


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## Hardbody97 (Feb 9, 2006)

zanegrey said:


> it is because they have not done it correctly..
> 
> why would u do that.. the info is here as concise as u can find it..


It is unclear to whom you are replying.


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## Grug (Aug 20, 2009)

I don't wanna' speak for Zane... but I believe he's agreeing that incorrect installation (not having the guides pushed out) is the cause of rattle after a timing chain job.

I think he's also saying that I don't need to do a thesis 'cause all the information is already here. However, I could still do a thesis, get a Doctorate, make a bazillion dollars and retire to a tropical island somewhere. I suppose then I could trade my Hardbody for a Lamborghini.....do they have timing chain issues?


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## zanegrey (Dec 5, 2005)

lol.........


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## 95pickup (Jul 22, 2009)

My chain rattle got worse and worse at startup. Finally it sounded like the motor was going to exploded..

Took apart the the tensior guide blew up. The chain ate thru the timing cover on the inside. Parts of the guide were in the oil pan. That was at 190k.

Did the whole replacement. Not fun. But not too hard.
Now im at 209k. It does rattle in the morning for like 5-10 secounds. But thats it.
Lots of power.


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## wright78 (May 30, 2011)

*The settled liffter*

So I have been dealing with engine noise for the last couple of moths and found the broken chain guide, (yes the chain will wear thru the water channel and leak directly into the oil pan) so I replaced the chain guide and started her up now the problem is a lack of oil flow I be live. The issue i am now having is that my hydraulic lash adjusters (rocker arms to those whom are not fully involved in the ka24e world) are not priming correctly. I discovered that the OEM oil filter for the ka24de has a valve in it to prevent oil pressure drop, this keeps the chain tensioner tight while the engine is not running and keeps pressure on the top of the head to keep the lash adjusters under pressure, making the OEM oil filters a must which I switched to. I have also gone as far as replacing the entire head with a rebuilt one from headsonly.com (highly suggested) thinking that my issue was worn lash adjusters but still only 3 of the 12 are priming. I am currently trying a higher oil weight regimen per the service department at heads only to see if it helps. I am debating a new high volume oil pump as well (figure if I'm going to replace it I might as well go high volume) but I am getting good oil pressure of an external gauge so I'm in a pickle. any help let me know and if I can help anyone with where I've gotten to let me know.


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## redlineslash (Nov 13, 2010)

I don't know if your question was answered about "what's the big deal if my tensioner goes bad" but if does, you could potentially skip some teeth and being as these motors are interference motors, you can smack the valves with the pistons. Turning a timing chain job onto a full on head job. (Happend to me) timing chain set$100 head gasket set $110 all 12 valves $120 head bolts $60. And who knows how much shop time at $100 an hour if you can't do it in your garage.


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## redlineslash (Nov 13, 2010)

That and I was lucky that the chain didn't destroy the cover


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