# Sticky  SR20DE into B12: got knowledge?



## DSMPOWERED (Sep 20, 2005)

My brother and I really want to do this over the summer to my B12. That being said, NissanPerformanceMag's project B12 coverage doesn't give us any more info than the fact that we need custom motor mounts made, and everything forward of the firewall on a Classic. He's performed a few FWD nissan swaps before, including his primera DE-powered B13 daily driver, so we know we can do this if armed with the proper knowledge.

*What I need from those of you with knowledge:*
A comprehensive list of parts needed to complete this swap.
Documentation or photos (like a "VFAQ" in the DSM world) of a swap being done. 

*What I don't need:*
People trying to convince me to either put a SR20DET, CA18(D)ET, or whatever into the car. I want the best NA engine that is effective and affordable, and a cheap primera DE from Soko is what I want in it. Period.
People who don't know about this swap guessing.
People trying to talk me out of it.


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

well said. If that is what you want more power to you. did you do a search on this . the home work is there. 

a cheap DE? ok . there is nothing cheap about the B12 SR20 swap. your loonikng for a DE swap you do the work and still looking at 3500 to do it right.


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

DSMPOWERED said:


> My brother and I really want to do this over the summer to my B12. That being said, NissanPerformanceMag's project B12 coverage doesn't give us any more info than the fact that we need custom motor mounts made, and everything forward of the firewall on a Classic. He's performed a few FWD nissan swaps before, including his primera DE-powered B13 daily driver, so we know we can do this if armed with the proper knowledge.
> 
> *What I need from those of you with knowledge:*
> A comprehensive list of parts needed to complete this swap.
> ...


http://www.nissanforums.com/b11-b12-kn13-82-90-chassis/34536-b12-sr20de-swap-manual.html


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## DSMPOWERED (Sep 20, 2005)

Red_Coupe said:


> well said. If that is what you want more power to you. did you do a search on this . the home work is there.
> 
> a cheap DE? ok . there is nothing cheap about the B12 SR20 swap. your loonikng for a DE swap you do the work and still looking at 3500 to do it right.


Usually, I don't find what I need when I search here, so I didn't bother. The link below your post seems to have the info we need, though,

The primera DE in his B13 was ~$400 shipped overnight from Soko in Chicago, and he's been very satisfied with it. We'll probably go that route again. As far as the $3500 price, how did you arrive at that figure? Assuming that our own labor is free, we're budgeting $1500, give or take a few hundred. We already have a Classic with a spun bearing to pillage, as well as quite possibly the nicest unswapped B12 in the midwest.


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## DSMPOWERED (Sep 20, 2005)

Red_Coupe said:


> http://www.nissanforums.com/b11-b12-kn13-82-90-chassis/34536-b12-sr20de-swap-manual.html


Alright, I read it all the way through.

The biggest problem is that I'm not seeing much more than dueling theories. I saw a lot of good info from several people, but the thread doesn't really make it clear what specific parts are needed, nor does it make it clear which participants have executed a quality swap and which have failed.


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## Powerball (Mar 2, 2006)

Dude I know how you feel.
I ended up buying an SR20DE and gearbox, it is now sitting useless in my garage untill I can get the cash to buy an aftermarket management system.

I am going to attempt it in the next few months when I get the other B12, maybe we can sort things out between us. I am surrounded by engineering shops and very good mechanics - as soon as I start I'll contact you.

I am going to start with an old SR20 block that I got for free @ the junk yard, this is just for engine mountings and the correct positioning of the engine.

I say the best way to try something is to try it yourself.


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

DSMPOWERED said:


> Usually, I don't find what I need when I search here, so I didn't bother. The link below your post seems to have the info we need, though,
> 
> The primera DE in his B13 was ~$400 shipped overnight from Soko in Chicago, and he's been very satisfied with it. We'll probably go that route again. As far as the $3500 price, how did you arrive at that figure? Assuming that our own labor is free, we're budgeting $1500, give or take a few hundred. We already have a Classic with a spun bearing to pillage, as well as quite possibly the nicest unswapped B12 in the midwest.


the 3500 is 1500 to 2000 for the SE-R or finding parts. most of the money is the classic. the rest is up grading the B12.



U will need ..

SR20 with engine harness(ecu) and all its goodies.

SRmounts ,B12 mounts witch ever or any combo of both.

b13 crossmember if you are using the SR mounts

b12 if you want to fab more than you need. both ways work.

ser stick shifter

Tranny u might as well get it checked for 5 th gear pop out.

axles from the SR.

radatior and fans .

figure stick shift forward guys.


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

Why did you remove the wiring harness? You are making ALOT more work for yourself. All you need is the Engine harness for the SR. You will need to tie into 6-7 wires to start the car. Put the harness back. Feed the SR harness through and do a little wiring. Use existing factory wiring, fuses and relays. It's the easiest way, I guarantee it.

1.) I used the B12 tie rods and rack w/ B13 hubs and brakes.

2.) I used the B12 shifter linkage, but I had to cut it and lengthen it about 2 inches. You will also need to lengthen the exhaust pipe by 2-3 inches to mate to the SE-R header. I used the B12 throttle cable and clutch cable.

3.) The only B12 mount I used was the passenger side mount. I made a bracket to adapt it to the SR20. Charles has another technique which is probably the easiets and most effective for motor mount upgrades. This is documented in NPM. You can use the B12 front dogbone if you have the GA16i. The JWT solid SR20 mounts uses the same style dogbone, just with a harder rubber. I had to lengthen the mounting points from the radiator support to allow the dogbone to mount to the SR correctly. For the tranny mount I drilled a 1/8" plate of mild steel and bolted the SR tranny mount to it and bolted it to the frame using existing bolt holes for the GA mount.

4.) Upgrading to the SE-R master cylinder is only a good idea if you have upgraded the rear drums to discs. Otherwise proportioning will be off. If you are just going to swap the boosters, it'll bolt right up. B12 brake lines will work fine with SE-R front brakes. Use whatever is in teh best condition.

5.)I used the B12 crossmember. Center the engine in the bay and build a piece of square channel to support the mount where it needs to be. Then weld and attatch the dogbone. These two mounts absorb the most torque of the engine. Once these are done, make the other two mounts. I beleive Charles used a hybrid B12/B13 crossmember, or maybe the whole B13, not for sure.


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

*PLEASE STICKY*


Do the master cylinder when you do the brakes. Otherwise it is UNSAFE. No offense, but you are attempting to do an SR swap and don't know how to change a master cylinder? Investing in a FSM or at least a Chilton/Haynes manual for both cars would be advisable.

The B13 crossmember is not a direct bolt in. Modification to the mounting points of the car must be made.



Quote:
5) Do I use the B13's cross member or the B12's? 

I used the b13 cross member and welded the rear to the body fabricating an adapter bracket. The fron I drilled two holes so that I could bolt it in place. The SE-R cross member will not bolt up to the b12 chassis. 

It seems that John may have a better method for the shade tree machanic who may not have access to a welder. I would exploe using the b12 crossmember and fabricating the b13 mounts to them.
You will either have to lengthen the the b12 unit like john did. Or cut the ends off the b13 linkages with a good amount of linkage still on it. Then cut the ends of the b12 linkage and weld the b13 ends to the b12 linkage. 

b12 linkage
==========}CUT{===O <----bushing that fits to trani
keep bolded portion (left side)

b13 linkage
=========}CUT{====O
keep bolded portion (right side)

Weld two bolded portion together at right length
b12 linkages ---> ============::====O <--- b13 end

( :: are welds)


or John's method (lengthening the b12 linkages to fit)

(shifter end)===================O <-----bushing that fits to trani

=========}CUT{==========O


=========::Weld longer pipe::=========O

cluch cable if you don't feel like swapping the cable, you simply just move the throttle cable bracket one bolt hole to the left. Mine worked fine like that for years



Just stick with the b12 rack and pinion. It will make the swap alot easier. You can either remove the guts from the ps pump and weld it closed or get a power steering eliminator idler pulley and bracket. (look on sr20forum for this.) The later would be the easiest.

If you remove the guts to the ps pump, (the parts that make it pump), the pump will just become an idler pulley. The belt will still be on there and the pulley will still spin, it just wont push any fluid. You will have to weld one end closed and i believe bolt the other end. Be sure to put some fluid in there before closing it up.





About the radiator. I cut off the lower radiator brackets from the se-r frame and welded them to the b12. The top mounts are a bit easier. Just unbolt the upper mounts from the b13, mount them by drilling holes and using nuts and bolts. The se-r radiator will sit with the top tilted slighty forward underneath the front upper frame. 

Reguarding the radiator. I never thought to investigate the diesel. I may have to look into that.

You don't want to use the E-15 radiator as the inlet/outlet are reversed in position. You would have to snake hoses all over to get it right. Instead you can get the one for the CA pulsar and the inlets/outlets are in the proper location and are the same size as the SR20. If you use the GA radiator, you will have to step down the radiator hose from the size of the SR outlets to the radiator outlets.

Another option which was done by kevin in the Netherlands, was to just use a diesel sentra radiator. Apparently it is thicker and has better cooling capacity. The e15t radiator might also be worth checking out, if it is a bolt in.



Now this is all the info condenced for use. this is knowledge from three of four b12er that are on the top of there game. this will help u in the effert to do a b12 SR20 Swap.
thx to John,charles,dee and a few others.

chip


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## Powerball (Mar 2, 2006)

Chip how'r things dude?
You covered most of the mechanical points - my biggest headache is the electronics.

And I agree with you, the swap is by no means cheap!


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

Powerball said:


> Chip how'r things dude?
> You covered most of the mechanical points - my biggest headache is the electronics.
> 
> And I agree with you, the swap is by no means cheap!


well i've been working and trying to up grade the B12. thanks for asking.

Most of the swap is mechanical. the wiring is all in reading the wire diagrams and taking the time to do it right for a lasting swap. 

to start the car you need 

- power and ground to the ECU
- power and ground to the starter
- same for the fuel pump
- power to the ignition


this is the basics to get the car started. the rest is READING the DIAGRAMS... this i can't 
stress enough..


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## Powerball (Mar 2, 2006)

Well said.


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

bump.... PLEASE STICKY


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## MNM (Jul 26, 2006)

powerball i want your engine will give you 400 for engine and tranny
its fwd right?


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

re: to post #9 to get the picture
here are some pictures of the b12 and b13 shifters








this is the whole pic .. b12 on the top and b13 on the bottom








u can just switch them with each other if you want. or use the b13 shifter


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Gentlemen,

Do any of you know how much trouble was it for you to connect the SR's heater hoses to the B12's heater core? I ask because I saw this older reply that Hybrid DET posted about it on post #18 of *this* thread. 

He said: _ Later if you are lucky and have room between the intake manifold and the fire wall, you will connect the coolent lines off the sr20 to the heater core ports in the fire wall._

Is it any problem getting the SR's heater hoses connected to the B12's core?


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

u can do it. but u will have very little room to work with .


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## datsun74 (May 7, 2007)

ya im in the process of doing the same thing with my 83 but we are at a stop as i do not know how to weld ive got a couple of shops helpin me with it but its gettin to the hard part weve already got the clutch linkage and trany goin in with out much problem but weve run into fitting the motor in the bay as it is quite bigger than the stock e16 that was in there


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## b1184 (Oct 10, 2007)

im new here. i drive an 84 sentra or used to at least. the timing belt took a shit on me today and now im stuck with a blown motor anyone ever swapped an sr20 into a b11? im talking an sr20de into an auto 84 sentra nisssan- datsun? any advice is valued greatly any one ? anywhere has it been done?


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## fantacmet (Mar 26, 2005)

I've seen some people complain about having to get an aftermarket engine management system. Isn't it also possible to carbuerate one of these? Throw on a custom made sheet metal intake and a carb and call it good? I know some will flame me about the superiority of Injection and how carbs are garbage, but the simple fact is, both are quite good. Especially noadays. Carbs just seem to be a mystery box to some, that tend to work on black magic. I however am completely comfortable around them.


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

sorry for trolling but did yall every finish any of them??


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

Wow !!... you guys went hard on this for the last few years !! 

Props to you all !! keeping the fate alive !! 

Ive not yet came up with another HOW-to but surely when ill get more time on my hand ill get you guys up with all thats needed to make it happen... 

Btw, ill have to update alot of things... havent been around in 4 years !! 

For TOOQIKK : im done and running since 2 years now ... 241whp/313lbstq


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Martin! Great to see you back on the forums. 

Wow, det powered now? Nice!

Mike


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

to crazy-mart...what are you waitin on slacker!!...j/k
det is cool im actually goin gti-r power awd just to out do Mike and his ga16de-t ...hehe
im lookin to put down between 400-500 whp!


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

and please post up some pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks!


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

teasers in the signature  ill try to post a few more tonight..

4wd might be a futur project for me ... as of now, the car is way to much powerfull to lay the power down... its spin the front up to 3rd gear


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

Crazy-Mart said:


> teasers in the signature  ill try to post a few more tonight..
> 
> 4wd might be a futur project for me ... as of now, the car is way to much powerfull to lay the power down... its spin the front up to 3rd gear


try gettin some traction bars! if you cant make them check out sr20forum com
what size tires you running and what type of tires?


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

im running 205-50-15 BFG, sport KDW... did last +/- 5000km  guess i got a lead foot ... 
ill be running dunlop direzza dz101 starting tommorow 

ill check for traction bar


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## Rezzy (Jun 14, 2010)

How hard or even possible would a blacktop from a g20 be to put in a b12 2door 4spd??


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

you have to have all the mounts, the tranny, the axles, the ecu, the engine wiring harness,can use the sr20 cross member or the b12s have been modified... its not a direct bolt in job so ....
if martin will get around to post pics of his install......hint hint!
i will be posting some of mine but i have a unique set up that doesnt quite match ......as im installing a complete awd set up using the gti-r motor and tranny ...it has different style mounts and no cross memeber like the "regular" sr20 powered cars do...lol


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

Crazy-Mart said:


> Jun 1st, 2010 06:58 AM
> ill try to post a few more tonight..


hey im just sayin ITS BEEN OVER 2 MONTHS NOW................:waving::waving::waving::showpics:


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## Crazy-Mart (Jul 14, 2002)

yah i know ... been so much occupied with the job and girlfriend lately !! ... plus my new toys (s13,g20,ford escape) ... otherwise... ive putted some pics on cardomain... ill try to update some more ... but recently i havent drived the car much... been overheating so im waiting on my custom radiator to arrive and such .... the 28 im going drag racing... ill post some time slip up too


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## Red_Coupe (Mar 20, 2003)

Crazy-Mart said:


> yah i know ... been so much occupied with the job and girlfriend lately !! ... plus my new toys (s13,g20,ford escape) ... otherwise... ive putted some pics on cardomain... ill try to update some more ... but recently i havent drived the car much... been overheating so im waiting on my custom radiator to arrive and such .... the 28 im going drag racing... ill post some time slip up too


took u this long to...... huh nice to see an old friend and his cars..lol


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## Wesleyb12 (Jun 19, 2012)

so i just bought an Se-r 1992 and im ready to start the conversion. from the sounds of it i need the fallowing. 

engine trans
engine wire harness
ecu
shift linkage from b13
crossmember from b13 
motor mounts from b13 and a combo of b12 ga16i passenger mount
custom exhaust work. maybe custom radiator work.
b13 axles. (do i use the b13 hubs? or do the b12 have the same splines.) 
b13 brake booster
b13 proportioning valve for brakes
b13 rear disc brake hubs (the suspension looks like i can take the entire rear hub off the b13 sentra and bolt it into the b12 sentra) 

QUESTIONS:
do i need to use the pedel assembly from the b13 (my b12 is auto) 
what else am i missing???


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## Rustbucket79 (Oct 6, 2019)

Hey Wesleyb12.did you ever finish your swap?


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