# Flushing power steering.



## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

My power steering fluid is brown(burnt) and i remember unwittingly topping it off with clear valvoline stuff (wrong stuff, i know now). So i was thinking of flushing the power steering system, but i wanted to run my method by you guys before i mess something up. 

i want to disconnect the hose that is connected to the bottom of the resivour(just cus its easiest to reach is all, no other reasons). connect two lengths of hose to the two open ends and run them into two buckets, one filled with clean Dexron III/mercon and one empty to catch the old stuff. then run the engine and let the PS pump cycle the old stuff out of the system whilst drawing the clean stuff in. 

now i guess im just assuming that the PS pump is strong enough to suck ATF from a bucket, so can it??

and which direction does the power steering flow? this is kinda critical to putting the buckets in the right place lol. i'm guessing that the smaller tube line is on the intake side of the pump, and the bigger hose line is on the outbound side of the pump.


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## 94SE-R_wi (Sep 14, 2004)

do not use ATF, that is tranny fluid. Yes it does work but buy the power steerting fluid, they have the stuff for a reason. So please dont use ATF. Because i hate when i have to drain that shit out and put PS fluid in.
-Ben


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

94SE-R_wi said:


> do not use ATF, that is tranny fluid. Yes it does work but buy the power steerting fluid, they have the stuff for a reason. So please dont use ATF. Because i hate when i have to drain that shit out and put PS fluid in.
> -Ben


uhm...the FSM says "reccomend fluid is *Automatic Transmission Fluid* type Dexron II or equivelent" what are you smoking?


so what about my method? good/bad? changes?


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## 94SE-R_wi (Sep 14, 2004)

1. Well if it says that then i am a moron, but they make power steering fluid for a reason.
2. I have seen your method work on auto tranny's, the only way that i have done it has been to take the lines of at the rack. But that can be tricky if you dont have a lift. And i am pretty sure that it can suck it through the lines. But i would also keep in mind that PS pumps do run under pretty high pressure so i dont know if it would work the best.


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## blackmaxima88 (Mar 20, 2005)

you are SUPPOSED to use automatic transmission fluid in the power steering. that's what the car was built with. every nissan I've ever seen, every ford I've ever seen, and probably most japanese cars use ATF in the power steering. trust me, cos I've seen it happen, if you dump clear power steering fluid in there, it WILL leak. and I've also seen bearing problems result from it. when I bought my 94 sentra last year I had to flush the power steering fluid out with fresh ATF cos it was leaking, and lo and behold, it stopped.

Dan


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

how did you flush it? with a similar method to the one i proposed?


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## 94SE-R_wi (Sep 14, 2004)

Well i am not going to get into a big fight about this, all i am saying is that PS fluid is out ther for a reason, i know honda for sure takes it cause they have a special fluid for it, as well as most GM's that i know of. i have never had a problem where i put the clear PS fluid in and it leaks. All i was trying to say was if it says to use PS fluid use it please.


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

94SE-R_wi said:


> Well i am not going to get into a big fight about this, all i am saying is that PS fluid is out ther for a reason, i know honda for sure takes it cause they have a special fluid for it, as well as most GM's that i know of. i have never had a problem where i put the clear PS fluid in and it leaks. All i was trying to say was if it says to use PS fluid use it please.


stay on topic god dang it!


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## sunnysentra (Jul 24, 2002)

I posted up changing the power steering fluid in the GA section. They told me to look in my factory manual. This is what you should do also. They should have the procedure. Maybe you drain and fill, start it up and turn side to side to pump the bubbles out. I will look in my manual tonight. I am at work now
Chris 92 classic


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## Hydrolock (Feb 18, 2005)

Figure out what line is the return hose and dissconect it. Put that hose in a bucket and plug where it was connected. Disconnect the ignition coil and have a buddy crank the car for 10 seconds at a time (so you don't overheat the starter) Keep pouring new fluid into the resovoir, don't let it become empty. Your done when the fluid coming out of the hose is clean. Reconnect everything, Start your car and turn the wheel slowly from bump to bump, but don't hold it at ther stops. That will bleed the air out of your system and your all set.

As a side note they do make power steering fluid for a reason... and it's for cars that call for power steering fluid.


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## jemtec (Jan 22, 2005)

The Pressure line will use a metal fitting that requires a wrench to remove at the reservoir.
The Return Lines use a simple clamp. 
In the past, Ive used a Nozzle from an Airhose and set it to low pressure (like 35 PSI) and blew all the old crap out that way.
But for those without that ability, you can BLOW on the end of the Pressure line removed.. and it will come back through the return line. Its slow, but it works.
Also, Yep.. ATF Dexron Type II is factory but Type III has been the new standard since the early 1990s. That was at least since 93 that I know of.. I worked for Als Auto Supply back in may of 93, through 2000, and thats all that was ever available.
Honda uses a special fluid due to the rubber used in their Powersteering system hoses and seals. 
DO NOT use the Honda version as it has different flow characteristics and is a waste of money ( It costs more). Its not the right stuff anyway.
Ive seen someone put ATF in a Honda system.. The Return line hose turns into a wet noodle.. Its actually kinda funny to see a hose saturated with powersteering fluid from the inside. LOL
Also, Ive found that a synthetic transfluid works quite well. (still rated Dexron II and III capable). the steering seems lighter and smoother.


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

so i shouldn't run the car at all and just use air to flush the sytem? wont the components get hurt during the refill period? or is it so short that it has no effect.

and i do have an air compressor, just no fanyc fittings. i used it to empty my tranny faster once, worked well.


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## jemtec (Jan 22, 2005)

*Drain and Fill of Powersteering Fluid for Flushing.*

No, just leave the engine off during the drain procedure. 
The Power steering system needs fluid for lubrication, and though some fluid will come out the return for a moment or so the pump will quickly not have anymore pressure and it will no longer flow.. So there will be quite a bit of crappy fluid still left in there. So, to save time.. Dont bother running the engine. 
No need for fancy connectors for your air nozzle.. The usual rubber type nozzle head does peachy.
Be aware that it WILL spray the old crap pretty good, so be careful not to get it in your eyes. 
Once you clean it up as best you can, reconnect everything, (make sure you tighten your clamp, and dont overtighten your pressure side of your reservior! Get it snug.. Dont reef on it)!. 
Slowly add fluid to the Reservior, and once you have added about a cup (8oz), start the truck and have a buddy turn the steering wheel lock to lock... (left to right and back again all the way).. Do it repeatedly, and continue adding fluid. 
Its not a fast process, but be aware that its EZ to overfill.. So go easy, and take your time!

Once filled, Shut the rig down.. recheck the fluid level, and add more if needed to top off. 
It is OK to have a small bit over, but if its way over, pull some of the fluid out with a turkey baster or some other suction device. Try to shoot for the Hot "full" mark.  The Cap needs to be locked in place, then turned, pulled out and read immeditately for best results.
Be sure the Filter is in PLACE when you do this.. Its ok to remove during the "flushing" procedure.. But it adds "height" to the fluid level during fills, so you need it there. 
Recheck for any leaks.
If you want to actually "fill and Flush", just do the above procedure twice..
Have fun man.


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## sunnysentra (Jul 24, 2002)

I looked in the factory manual and it does not say anything about where to drain the fluid. I cannot believe it, it tells you how to bleed air out, but what good is that if there is no explanation on how to flush this fluid out!.

Chris 92 classic


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## Hydrolock (Feb 18, 2005)

jemtec said:


> No, just leave the engine off during the drain procedure.
> The Power steering system needs fluid for lubrication, and though some fluid will come out the return for a moment or so the pump will quickly not have anymore pressure and it will no longer flow.. So there will be quite a bit of crappy fluid still left in there. So, to save time.. Dont bother running the engine.
> No need for fancy connectors for your air nozzle.. The usual rubber type nozzle head does peachy.
> Be aware that it WILL spray the old crap pretty good, so be careful not to get it in your eyes.
> ...


How does it save time by not running the engine? Instead of making a mess and blowing fluid all over the place let the car do the work for you, pull the ignition fuse, and crank it to flush the old fluid out. That way you'll get it ALL out. Just don't let the system empty out. Keep adding fluid. This was you only have to do it ONCE to flush it, and it's done right. C'mon work smart not hard. Look at my previous post if you don't under stand how to do it.


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

Hydrolock said:


> How does it save time by not running the engine? Instead of making a mess and blowing fluid all over the place let the car do the work for you, pull the ignition fuse, and crank it to flush the old fluid out. That way you'll get it ALL out. Just don't let the system empty out. Keep adding fluid. This was you only have to do it ONCE to flush it, and it's done right. C'mon work smart not hard. Look at my previous post if you don't under stand how to do it.


yeah i think i like your way better. i dont like the idea of running a hydrolic system with no hydrolic fluid, seems....bad.


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## jemtec (Jan 22, 2005)

*Powersteering fluid the Smart way.*

Tavel:
I dont recall ever saying to run the system with NO fluid?
Am I missing something here. LOL?
And Hydrolock:
Well, Not to say your idea of turning the motor over to pump fluid is a completely bad Idea, but how do you KNOW you got it all out? 
Well you dont.
Hence my method.
Ideally:
Remove the old crap.. as much as you can.. Refill. 
Remove the air by turning the steering Lock to Lock while the engine is at idle.
Shut it off. 
Drain again as best you can. Refill. 
One extra step. And you KNOW its all clean.
So yeah, you might save a moment of time with your method.. But you dont do as good of a job!
My method uses LESS fluid.. Not more.
You can SEE the results using air because when nothing more comes out during a drain, that means you got most of it. (the first time around).
Your way works, but why go through the hassle of taking out fuses (fuelpump AND Ignition unless you want to flood the engine and put raw gas in the catalytic converter), and then putting wear on your starter and battery at the same time? 
The starter might crank the engine close to 600RPM, but the powersteering pump isnt moving even that fast.. And the starter is designed for short Bursts upto 10 seconds with a 2 minute cool down.
THAT IS NOT for this procedure!
It will overheat the starter in a hurry. 
And for those with little experience doing this kind of thing, why tell them to crank the motor? HOW long do they need to crank? What guarantee is there that its ALL going to come out? What if you get an airbubble during filling while cranking and the fluid isnt coming out and there STILL is old crap in there even using your method?
Sure its Anal to say this.. But you are telling me that you SAVE time?
Its not worth the risk.
Its still messy no matter what way you look at it to drain.
Dude, thats not only a waste of time, its hard on parts you arent even needing to monkey with!
I dont think telling people to crank for an Inordinate amount of time, and removing fuses is the answer.
A newbie needs a simpler understanding.
What good is extra speed when you dont do the job right?
You STILL have to remove lines and you still have to drain it.
When using the Air method, you DO save time.
IF you dont have a Compressor, then you will have to drain as best you can, refill, and drain again. Your method is NOT a surefire way of accurately removing all the old fluid and replacing it, without creating more wear and tear and having to risk damage to other components.
Im not saying in "theory" your idea is all bad. Seriously.. Id do it myself if there werent other repercussions, but I think of the method as a bit too "lazy" for my tastes and experience.
You loose pressure if you dont keep filling the reservoir during the crank procedure you spoke of. I like your thoughts in that regard, and yes.. that does work and is good advice.. For the Powersteering pump. Not the Starter, Nor the Battery!
You still need to do the Lock to Lock method.. to get air out, and to make sure fluid is flowing through the Powersteering gearbox (or rack).
You can start the engine ONLY to MIX the new fluid with whatever is left of the old.. Then, Drain again.. And refill. It WONT mix correctly unless you use enough fluid to get the old out right? 
So, Get as much of the OLD stuff out FIRST, then add new stuff, and then drain, and add again. It will get more of the old stuff out using the Powersteering pump RUNNING at IDLE (which is going much faster) and it will act as a washing machine for the lines, (as they will be under full pressure) and whats left of the old stuff will be suspended in the new fluid.
Then, draining once more, and refilling you know its clean. 
Whats wrong with doing it right?


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## littlebadboy (Jan 25, 2005)

blackmaxima88 said:


> you are SUPPOSED to use automatic transmission fluid in the power steering. that's what the car was built with. every nissan I've ever seen, every ford I've ever seen, and probably most japanese cars use ATF in the power steering. trust me, cos I've seen it happen, if you dump clear power steering fluid in there, it WILL leak. and I've also seen bearing problems result from it. when I bought my 94 sentra last year I had to flush the power steering fluid out with fresh ATF cos it was leaking, and lo and behold, it stopped.
> 
> Dan


sorry for being O/T... is the power steering's bearing replaceable?


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## Hydrolock (Feb 18, 2005)

jemtec said:


> Tavel:
> I dont recall ever saying to run the system with NO fluid?
> Am I missing something here. LOL?
> And Hydrolock:
> ...


Well first of all as long as your not blind you can look and see if the fluid coming out of the pump is clean or not. If it's clean your done. Next order of buisness if you bothered to read my previous post you would have noticed I said run the starter for 10 seconds at a time to not over heat it. I'd rather go through the "hassle" of pull 2 fuses, than having to do the procedure twice. I don't know what kind of fuses you got in your car, but mine pull right out.

I don't really under stand how your method uses less fluid if you have to do it twice to flush it.

And to your statment 

"And for those with little experience doing this kind of thing, why tell them to crank the motor? HOW long do they need to crank? What guarantee is there that its ALL going to come out? What if you get an airbubble during filling while cranking and the fluid isnt coming out and there STILL is old crap in there even using your method?"

They need to crank for 10 seconds at a time letting it cool down in between. I guarantee it will all come out if your power steering pump is functional and there is a belt on it. An air bubble could be bleed off later if it didn't already get pushed through the return... 

If by saying my method is too lazy for you, you mean it just make too much freakin sense then I'd say your right.

This cranking the motor buisness is by the book, and is the way anyone with half a brain would teach you to do it. I hate to say it but your way is kind of dumb. Why would you do it TWICE. It's messy and inpractical when there is a easier way to do it that makes a hell of a lot more sense.

"So yeah, you might save a moment of time with your method.. But you dont do as good of a job!" Riiiiiight.


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## Tavel (Aug 21, 2004)

um so which line is the return line, the big one or the little one? how much fluid does it take? (should i buy 1 gallon jug or 2 gallon jug?)

hydrolocks way just seems like its the right way to do it. its a flush of the system, not a drain and refill. 

ill figure out which way i want to do it when i get in there, i've got both methods in my head...so whichever makes more sense when im down there.


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## Hydrolock (Feb 18, 2005)

Tavel said:


> um so which line is the return line, the big one or the little one? how much fluid does it take? (should i buy 1 gallon jug or 2 gallon jug?)
> 
> hydrolocks way just seems like its the right way to do it. its a flush of the system, not a drain and refill.
> 
> ill figure out which way i want to do it when i get in there, i've got both methods in my head...so whichever makes more sense when im down there.


Return line is the one with just a hose clamp on it. The high pressure line has a pressure fitting on it.


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## jemtec (Jan 22, 2005)

*To crank or not to crank?*

Hydrolock:
The amount of fluid needed to flush well runs right about a bit over a quart to do it twice. 
Thats not much. about $3.00. (Your question Tavel).
Just once using your method with the constant filling, having someone crank the engine for you which requires 2 people, not 1, and running a system that could be very dirty and cranking the hell out of the starter for again.. An inordinate amount of time based on system condition. 
Not everyone has 2 people to help with this procedure, so how do you crank, watch for fluid color changes and keep an eye on the filling?
You could buy a "remote starter switch", but now you have to go and spend $10-$15.00 on one the typical guy may never use again.
Just to flush power steering fluid the "fast way".
What you are telling the average guy is that he wont get any airbubbles while he fills the system.. Ok, you could be right.. IF. You keep it full. And IF you keep adding fluid until it runs red at the drain on the return line and all of this IF you know what you are doing and looking for.
The average guy might not know when to stop cranking, he/she may also not know when the fluid is truly "clean". 
Red is likely the "stop" point..but inexperienced people might not be able to know what the diff is from "lightly browned" or "faint" color reds from the point it begins draining! If the fluid is in fair condition, it might already BE RED! 
Again, Its EXPERIENCE that makes the diff in your way of doing it. 
How many cranks cycles? 1 or 2, 10 second crank cycles likely to do it?
People sometimes forget to wait 2 minutes between cool downs. Now, all of a sudden, if you do take the time to do a cooldown of the starter, you just added 4-6 minutes to your "Fast job".
Now, its closer to the same amount of time as what it takes to do the way Ive been talking about all along.
The other issues I mentioned in my last post.
Mainly because people may not be a bright as you are, THEY can MISS something.
Again, For instance, they only take out one of the 2 fuses, flood the system with fuel, possibly running their battery down from cranking, and again, overheating the starter. 
Overheat the windings in a starter and you can crack the shellac surrounding them and you can get internal SHORTS or it might just keel over from that kind of potentially incessant cranking as well as wipe out the solenoid from the amp flow heating the solenoid power transfer disc to red hot and possibly damaging the starter drive due to bearing heat.
The typical crank time is 3-4 Seconds during a typical engine startup.. It takes 15 Minutes to Recharge a battery back to full in that short a time using the alternator.
This may also call for a battery charger to top the battery back up.
Can you guarantee the person doing the job is doing this procedure right? 
No you cant.
If the method works for you, I think that telling everyone else to try and use your "easy" method may not be as good as when they can take an extra 10 minutes and do it safer.. and yes.. it IS the right method for the average guy and beginners!
Then you have the audacity to tell me to "read" your way of doing it because you think its some kind of "foolproof" method, and Im just a stupid moron and maybe you are a "Post" watcher and assume if Ive only done a small number of posts so I cant possibly know what Im doing. (No you didnt call me a moron or anything, but I get the feeling that you were thinking about it) all for telling people to do it a way that takes 10 more minutes than your way.
Lets just throw some caution to the wind.
Ive never seen a word in any of my manuals or any of my training that says use the "cranking" method to pump out fluid during a flush as you mentioned.
To be honest, you are supposed to use the same tool that the Transmission guys use. Its a Flush tank. 
It does your method without the cranking. 
Again, I like your thinking on getting the job done quicker, but you are using a method that simply isnt "by the book" as you say it is. 
In my shop and tech manuals, they explain how to fill a powersteering pump and bleed the air, and to replace the pump, hoses and hardware the way I have done it for years on other rigs.
Some not as simple as the Nissans. 
Since I dont have the flush tank, I have to do it the way I mentioned.
Even in your mind if it seems like a waste to do it my way, I argue that there is more at stake in not only doing it right, but by not cranking it over at all if you can possibly avoid it to prevent possible mishaps.
Just drain it out best you can, refill, idle the vehicle for maybe 30 seconds, turn the steering slowly left to right and then drain and refill and bleed the air one last time and recheck your fluid level.
What is so difficult about that?
The whole system uses close to 3/4 a quart to drain and refill. (each time). 
Using your method, you still are adding fluid and draining it as its pumping fluid and ill bet the amount used is also very similar.
Ill say that Id rather spend $1.50 on a quart of transmission fluid, then potentially more on other parts.
Not trying to lock horns with you and you are obviously intelligent. 
Methodology is mostly about experience of doing something again once you have had success the first time around.
And you had a particular experience, and I had my own.
Whatever works for you man.
Im certainly not telling you to do otherwise as you wouldnt likely use my advice anyway.
And yes.. I read your posts.


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## Hydrolock (Feb 18, 2005)

Well whatever man, I'm done arguing this and it seems so are you. This is the way I've read it in my books and been taught. This is the way it makes the most sense. An unexperienced person can make mistakes doing anything though, no matter how simple it is to someone with more experience. It just kind of seems like you think my way is a trick or a shortcut, but it's not it's just the way it's done. Yeah there is more than one way to do it. You could drop your oil pan every time you did an oil change, but wouldn't it just be easier to take out the drain plug?


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## jemtec (Jan 22, 2005)

*I agree.. Time to let er go.*

I totally agree.
I just figured it might be better to be cautious on what to tell newbies doin work. 
Agree with your idea though. 
I would never make the job harder than needed, as I actually try to speed up my work in certain tasks because ive done enough engine transmission jobs and other hardware replacements to know that you dont have to follow the manual to a tee.. And the tech manuals TRY to make suggestions that may or maynot appeal to all parties. 
Manytimes, manuals suggest doing several other steps that have little to do with the area you are actually working.
Like, Ive seen some manuals say "remove the negative battery terminal" when you are changing sparkplugs. LOL
I guess they are going the side of caution for anyone that might be new to mechanics or whatever, that somehow they might arc a wire somehow to ground (it is possible I suppose).
I usually push caution in many things because they can be dangerous.
And you are right. We have different opinions on the same job. Nothing wrong with that. 
Speaking of different opinions..
I remember getting a call for a lady that had an early 80s Ford with a 2.8 V6. Think it was a fairmont (gag).. anyway, she told me she needed a headgasket set. 
I said, "we only sell the headgasket with torque to yield headbolts and you would have to order the headgasket if you only wanted that". 
She said some crap about her Husband being a "master mechanic" and that kinda thing and that she "only needs a headgasket".
I asked her if her husband picked up some new TTY headbolts already and She said "no".
I told the lady that the Factory says you CANNOT reuse the bolts, as they will NOT torque correctly and you blow another headgasket and warp the head as they have already stretched and will not relax for re-torquing.
Any good mechanic resorts to the manual to check over procedures, and decides what he/she wants to do about the work based on thier experience level.
Well, she wouldnt have it. 
I told her that there is no other choice, and you could just buy just a headgasket if I ordered one, but they were cheaper to just get the Headgasket kit with the TTY bolts.
She said "no", and I said that "I was just trying to give her advice based on my info on hand". They HIGHLIGHTED the stuff in my books that it was Critical to replace the headbolts!
Well, If the Guy was really all that good, you would call yourself so your WIFE doesnt accidently get the wrong stuff!.. LOL
Just made me think the guy wasnt anything special, and she was making things up to make it sound like he knew what he was doing.
I know some guys that have thier wives call because if they get a dude on the phone and they sound dumb somehow, they will have a nut or two removed in pride.
I see the logic, but man, If you are doin the work, most people in the service of working in any autoparts store will try and help you as much as they can (I was one of those) and maybe you can get that job done right. 
I made a suggestion, a very good one and she ignored it completely.
Oh well. Not my rig, and I tried.
Sadly, many autoparts guys may not very knowledgable about mechanics and are just working a paycheck. 
I tried to teach my guys and gals as much as I could. 
We had a good crew because of that attention.
I sometimes got into some tech tiffs with some of the ladies that I worked with over years.
We had one lady that should have had a shlong.. Man, Butch as it gets.
She frequently ticked off alot of guys with her 'brusqe" attitude and she nuetered alot of dudes and many would never talk to her again for advice.
Anyway, Arguement aside Hydrolock, have a good one man.


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