# Why is the turbo 85 so much faster than non turbo 86?



## Myidolis (Oct 17, 2005)

Besides the obvious fact that it has a turbo in it of course. (i'm not THAT stupid.) My buddies stock turbo only puts out at like 4 psi. Can that really equal 40+ horsepower?

I raced my buddies 98 v6 stick shift mustang (and he's a descent driver) the other day and i whopped its ass. But according to the specs i've seen on both cars and the not all that great current state of my engine, i should have gotten KILLED. What could be the reasons for this?


----------



## Xorti7 (Dec 27, 2004)

What specs are you looking at? A 1996 mustang 3.8 liter V6 had 145 bhp. Even the Vg30e had more power than this without the turbo.


----------



## Myidolis (Oct 17, 2005)

hm. maybe i was looking at the v8 specs. But anyways, is there a way to turbo it, or do i need to swap the engine out?

--added later---
yeah, i did some research and found out the 98 v6 only had 150 hp and 225 torque, so my car did have it beat. i must have looked at the v8 specs by mistake, which were around 235 hp.


----------



## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

Myidolis said:


> Besides the obvious fact that it has a turbo in it of course. (i'm not THAT stupid.) My buddies stock turbo only puts out at like 4 psi. Can that really equal 40+ horsepower?
> 
> I raced my buddies 98 v6 stick shift mustang (and he's a descent driver) the other day and i whopped its ass. But according to the specs i've seen on both cars and the not all that great current state of my engine, i should have gotten KILLED. What could be the reasons for this?




86 had ~6.7psi on the T3 turbo. Which was good for 200 hp.


----------



## Myidolis (Oct 17, 2005)

wow it was almost 7 psi?...hm. I don't know why i was thinking 4. Thanks for all the info. Guys.


----------



## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

Myidolis said:


> wow it was almost 7 psi?...hm. I don't know why i was thinking 4. Thanks for all the info. Guys.


88-89 turbos used the t25 with 4.something psi


----------



## Myidolis (Oct 17, 2005)

ICP Sux0rZ! said:


> 88-89 turbos used the t25 with 4.something psi


That's probably what i was thinking. Thanks.

This may be a stupid question, but is there a turbo that's better than 7psi that will FOR SURE fit without too much ducting/hosing modification?


----------



## Myidolis (Oct 17, 2005)

AZ-ZBum said:


> 86 had ~6.7psi on the T3 turbo. Which was good for 200 hp.


He drives an 85, was it's turbo about the same as the 86?


----------



## ICP Sux0rZ! (Jan 10, 2005)

Engine:
bore = 87mm; stroke = 83mm; 6 cylinder, "V" configuration
84-87 Z31 NA: VG30E, CR 9.0:1, 160hp @ 5200, 173ft-lbs @ 4300
88-89 Z31 NA: VG30E, CR 9.0:1, 165hp @ 5200, 173ft-lbs @ 4300
84-87 Z31 Turbo: VG30ET, CR 7.8:1, T3, 6.7psi, 200hp @ 5200, 227ft-lbs @ 3600
88-89 Z31 Turbo: VG30ET, CR 8.3:1, T25, 4.5psi, 205hp @ 5200, 227ft-lbs @ 3600

in other words yes


----------



## Xorti7 (Dec 27, 2004)

Myidolis said:


> This may be a stupid question, but is there a turbo that's better than 7psi that will FOR SURE fit without too much ducting/hosing modification?


Im not sure if I understand your question. When you say "that's better than 7psi", are you only looking for more boost? You could just use a boost controller. So you could use the stock turbo and just turn up the boost (about 11-12 psi). As far as actually going with another someother turbo, Ill let someone else answer that.


----------



## Myidolis (Oct 17, 2005)

Xorti7 said:


> Im not sure if I understand your question. When you say "that's better than 7psi", are you only looking for more boost? You could just use a boost controller. So you could use the stock turbo and just turn up the boost (about 11-12 psi). As far as actually going with another someother turbo, Ill let someone else answer that.


yeah, i was mostly meaning one that's more efficient than the stock one. And i've never even TOUCHED a turbo, so i didn't even know you could control the boost. Is the boost controller something extra you need to add, or is it just changing the preset boost limit on the one that's already on there?


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Myidolis said:


> yeah, i was mostly meaning one that's more efficient than the stock one. And i've never even TOUCHED a turbo, so i didn't even know you could control the boost. Is the boost controller something extra you need to add, or is it just changing the preset boost limit on the one that's already on there?


No, it's something you add. The one I had cost about $60 altogether. You can go double and then some what the stock boost is. Mine was set at 16 psi, but that should be in race-only conditions.... High 13s with 16 psi and about 100 octane race gas/91 octane street gas mix.


----------



## Myidolis (Oct 17, 2005)

Zen31ZR said:


> No, it's something you add. The one I had cost about $60 altogether. You can go double and then some what the stock boost is. Mine was set at 16 psi, but that should be in race-only conditions.... High 13s with 16 psi and about 100 octane race gas/91 octane street gas mix.


okay, something i realize now that i should have mentioned is that i will usually not be racing. I simply want a performance ride. It's pure recreation. The only racing i will be doing will be against friends, punks at stoplights, and empty roads past 1 am. Also this is my everyday car, not just one that gets driven on the weekends to show off.

That being said, what booster would you recommend that will yield good performance, not require above a normal octane gas. (i realize performance is good for cars and i usually use it, but i don't want to be restricted to it given the current gas prices.)and not thoroughly rape my wallet. (60 bucks is not bad.) Any brands in particular?


----------



## Xorti7 (Dec 27, 2004)

Myidolis said:


> okay, something i realize now that i should have mentioned is that i will usually not be racing. I simply want a performance ride. It's pure recreation. The only racing i will be doing will be against friends, punks at stoplights, and empty roads past 1 am. Also this is my everyday car, not just one that gets driven on the weekends to show off.
> 
> That being said, what booster would you recommend that will yield good performance, not require above a normal octane gas. (i realize performance is good for cars and i usually use it, but i don't want to be restricted to it given the current gas prices.)and not thoroughly rape my wallet. (60 bucks is not bad.) Any brands in particular?


Thats a hard question to answer, but Ill give it a shot. What are you asking for? Are you asking because you want to turbo your NA? If so, then take a look at this site. Rez31's Page. You'll see the huge amount of work that goes into adding a turbo to this car. Instead of turboing the NA, I would recommend getting a different motor, or a different car. I know i wouldnt be up to the challenge, no matter how much ambition i had. He only used the stock t3, making it more simple. The t3 is sort of old school, but you can still get the boost up fairly high (using a boost controller). If you tune it right you can find a pretty safe boost seeting for everyday use and still see huge performance gains. The only reason you would use a higher oct. gas is if your boost is to high. If you dont want to use higher octain gas, just turn the boost down. 

On a side note, that is the only reason for using higher octain gas. Octain rating is just the gas' resistance to preignition (when the gas ignites to early). This happens when the boost is up to high.

You seems a little confused about boost controllers too. Read the site I have listed below for a little more insight, but the quick and dirty version is: the boost controller just tricks the waste gate. A turbo is regulated by a valve, called the wastegate, that opens when it is fed a certain signal (about 6.7psi for the t3). The boost controller just blocks some of that signal making it think that its running at 6.7, when in reality it is running at.. say.. 11.7 psi. The boost controller just blocked 5psi. Its pretty easy to install and pretty cheep.

On the other hand, if you're looking for an upgrade from your friends t3, or want a more efficient turbo than his for your car... you get a lot of options. By the way, by efficient I dont necessarily meen more psi, i meen more hp per psi, less heat per psi, and faster spooling. This might allow you to turn the boost high, but not without modifications to the fuel system, ecu, and afm first. So unless you're going to do these things, a the stock turbo will be sufficient, especially if you're not racing.

Anyway, you're gonna want to read this: How turbos work so you know how a turbo works and what parts there are. The easiest way to put a different turbo on this car is to keep the exhaust side; the turbine side. Otherwise the exhaust pipes wont bolt up right and you'll need to make all custom pipes. So whatever you want for the intake side is your choice. You can afford to change the intake side since you're going to be making piping for an intercooler anyway. Or at least I hope so? Otherwise, like i said, the stock turbo would be sufficient.

I hope that clears up some confusion, not long ago I also had the same questions.


----------



## Myidolis (Oct 17, 2005)

you are the shit. I think that answered just about everything i wanted to know. I think a stock turbo will be sufficient, (i was gonna go raid a junkyard for one), but i just wanted to make sure i wasn't putting a p.o.s turbo on it, or doing the work for a very minimal performance increase. Like i said i'm not gonna race, pro or otherwise usually...but i do like to tear ass down the freeway/abandoned road same as anyone else. Basically, my goal is to make this car as performance oriented as i can, because it's a classic, and that's how i'm going to treat it. I'm insuring it as a classic, i'm making it look as awesome as i can, but i also want to do as much as i possibly can to it without making it a frankenstein racing car. Not that i think performance mods and souping is dumb, it's just not what i'm doing with this car. I don't want a knew car, i want this one, you know? 

Anyways, thanks, i think a stock turbo and a good boost controller will do just fine. 

BTW!!! Anyone know where i can pick up a DIGITAL turbo boost read out gauge for the INSIDE dash of my car? The turb model came with one, but i can't find it anywhere. Any help would be great.


----------



## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

Myidolis said:


> BTW!!! Anyone know where i can pick up a DIGITAL turbo boost read out gauge for the INSIDE dash of my car? The turb model came with one, but i can't find it anywhere. Any help would be great.


http://www.az-zbum.com/information.differences.shtml#instruments


----------



## Myidolis (Oct 17, 2005)

AZ-ZBum said:


> http://www.az-zbum.com/information.differences.shtml#instruments


thanks man.


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

The stock guage is hopeless and not very accurate, though. You need an aftermarket guage for any sort of dependable readings.


----------



## Myidolis (Oct 17, 2005)

Zen31ZR said:


> The stock guage is hopeless and not very accurate, though. You need an aftermarket guage for any sort of dependable readings.


yeah i was thinking about that, but hoping i wouldn't have to get one. If i'm using a boost valve on the stock turbo, will i be able to get a gauge that reads accurately? And do you know of any after market gauges that are electric to blend with the existing gauges?


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Myidolis said:


> yeah i was thinking about that, but hoping i wouldn't have to get one. If i'm using a boost valve on the stock turbo, will i be able to get a gauge that reads accurately? And do you know of any after market gauges that are electric to blend with the existing gauges?


 No, aftermarket boost guages run on vacuum and boost pressure. The only electrical part of it is where the lights might wire into the dash wiring. There probably is a digital boost guage somewhere, but they generally aren't acceptable because they react slower than an analog sweep needle style guage. Besides, it looks better. Look in my gallery for pics of the setup I had in my dash. Both stock guages in the 2 center holes were replaced by aftermarket guages, and I think it looked pretty good. The other guage is an A/F ratio guage.


----------



## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

Myidolis said:


> yeah i was thinking about that, but hoping i wouldn't have to get one. If i'm using a boost valve on the stock turbo, will i be able to get a gauge that reads accurately? And do you know of any after market gauges that are electric to blend with the existing gauges?


http://www.az-zbum.com/modification.autometer.gauges.shtml


----------



## Myidolis (Oct 17, 2005)

Zen31ZR said:


> Look in my gallery for pics of the setup I had in my dash. Both stock guages in the 2 center holes were replaced by aftermarket guages, and I think it looked pretty good. The other guage is an A/F ratio guage.


Youre right that does look pretty damn good. Is the console modification easy or should i let a pro do it? And wiill an aftermarket gauge give accurate measurement with a boost valve? (since it tricks the wastegate and all?)


----------



## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

Myidolis said:


> And wiill an aftermarket gauge give accurate measurement with a boost valve? (since it tricks the wastegate and all?)


You still measure pressure off the manifold. This has nothing to do with the boost valve.


----------



## Myidolis (Oct 17, 2005)

AZ-ZBum said:


> You still measure pressure off the manifold. This has nothing to do with the boost valve.


sweet. thanks a bunch.


----------



## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

There's a small hook-up to the manifold on the rear passenger side that I used for boost signal for the guage. All you need is a T fitting to hook the gauge to it, I beleive something else uses it, but I don't know what. The port was empty and plugged on my car. 

The console mod was trial and error. I at first attempted to retain the case that the stock guages sit in, which is behind the circular holes you see. After removing the climate control panel, it's 2 bolts facing directly vertical. Remove those and the whole assembly slides out. I however cracked the case in too many places removing the gauges and so scrapped that idea. If you wish to keep the stock guage pod, just unplug everything and remove it and put it away. I then just ran power wires to the guage light from the stereo harness and the vacuum line from the manifold. You can buy bigger guages than the ones I had that will fit the holes better, I think those were 2 1/2 inch guages, made by Autometer. I had to use blue colored camping foam, bought from Walmart (they still sell it), to seat the guages in so that they didn't slide around and it makes it look better. 

The A/F guage is a bit more complicated and requires you to tap in to the 02 sensor wiring. That one you might want to have a professional do. I actually recommend the use of an o2 guage no matter what, it can tell you if the sensor is functioning properly. The 2 previous cars I had that I put that guage in, I was able to tell that the sensor was dead and replace it.


----------

