# right woofer choice?



## nissanlucino (Aug 25, 2002)

hey guys i was thinking of getting a 15" kicker for my lucino.
it's 1000 watts and ive got a 800w kenwood amplifier.
my friend's got the same woofer that i would like to get and he has a 600w kenwood amp hooked onto it. this woofer is loud as hell and the base just drives me crazy on a 600w amp! what will it do on a 800w amp?!

tell me what you guys think.


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## Punkrocka436 (Jul 8, 2003)

The L7's will get very very very loud. Depending on how high the gain is set will be how loud it is. Dont get crazy with the gain, as it is not a volume knob and you can damage your sub if you have it to high and have the sub clipping.


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## Russia (Jul 24, 2003)

Im more of a fan on the 12"...the Kicker L series is a SPL sub and the 15" gets too boomy for my taste.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

it will be louder with 800 watts, but not significantly louder
you're looking at a little over a 1dB increase


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## ny98max (May 10, 2003)

If you want a good 15" sub, not the cheap kicker garbage, look at the Elemental Designs e15a.22, or Oz Audio Me15.2 (or Me15.4).
Also if youre gonna get a real amplifier which delivers clean power (<0.03% distortion), and give your Kicker (or the likes) sub 700-800W RMS, you're gonna kill that piece...
my $0.02


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## Russia (Jul 24, 2003)

ny98max said:


> If you want a good 15" sub, not the cheap kicker garbage, look at the Elemental Designs e15a.22, or Oz Audio Me15.2 (or Me15.4).
> Also if youre gonna get a real amplifier which delivers clean power (<0.03% distortion), and give your Kicker (or the likes) sub 700-800W RMS, you're gonna kill that piece...
> my $0.02


Ummm...do you have any idea what ur talking about? "Cheap Kicker Garbage"? "Gonna kill that piece"? Maybe you should try before you speak. Kicker is very far from cheap garbage. Its a very good SPL sub, the L7 isnt too far back from the W7 for a lower price. eD are also very good subs, but they are more into SQ than SPL...I have 2 Kicker L5's which are even lower model then the L7 and I have them in a big ported box powered with the 800.2, giving them 200 Watts under RMS a piece and Im not saying they are the best out there, but with my proffesional install I will put them up against MANY 12" subs out there and most likely win in SPL. The 15" L7 will take 1000 Watts RMS I believe. Feeding it RMS from a high quality amp, or 800 Watts in the above statement wont "Kill that piece", it will make it push air like hell and make it very very loud. The new line of Kicker L7's is even stronger then before and they are very very good subs. Like Ive been saying to each his own, but dont say stupid ignorant shit about something you dont know...Kicker is a great product and it will do everything that it will say its going to do. RMS Power from a good amp will just make it sound better b/c of the amp, not kill that piece. And its very very far from cheap garbage.


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

Wat's the point of a 15" sub? seriously. Unless you're trying to blast some infra-sonic signals, I see no point putting in a sub that's as big as my wheels. A pair of 12s can pound just as hard and not be Boomy. It takes alot more power to drive sich a big sub. The only thing you're gonna achieve is the people checking out a sub that more than fills up your entire wheel well.


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## ny98max (May 10, 2003)

Russia said:


> Ummm...do you have any idea what ur talking about? "Cheap Kicker Garbage"? "Gonna kill that piece"? Maybe you should try before you speak. Kicker is very far from cheap garbage. Its a very good SPL sub, the L7 isnt too far back from the W7 for a lower price. eD are also very good subs, but they are more into SQ than SPL...I have 2 Kicker L5's which are even lower model then the L7 and I have them in a big ported box powered with the 800.2, giving them 200 Watts under RMS a piece and Im not saying they are the best out there, but with my proffesional install I will put them up against MANY 12" subs out there and most likely win in SPL. The 15" L7 will take 1000 Watts RMS I believe. Feeding it RMS from a high quality amp, or 800 Watts in the above statement wont "Kill that piece", it will make it push air like hell and make it very very loud. The new line of Kicker L7's is even stronger then before and they are very very good subs. Like Ive been saying to each his own, but dont say stupid ignorant shit about something you dont know...Kicker is a great product and it will do everything that it will say its going to do. RMS Power from a good amp will just make it sound better b/c of the amp, not kill that piece. And its very very far from cheap garbage.


That is why Kicker is sold in Bestbuy, bvwahahahah... No SQ car ever used, uses or will use Kicker.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

1997 GA16DE said:


> Wat's the point of a 15" sub? seriously. Unless you're trying to blast some infra-sonic signals, I see no point putting in a sub that's as big as my wheels. A pair of 12s can pound just as hard and not be Boomy. It takes alot more power to drive sich a big sub. The only thing you're gonna achieve is the people checking out a sub that more than fills up your entire wheel well.


Forget the myth that 15's are boomy and have bad SQ
You made the point on why to get a 15 in your post right here, it has almost as much displacement as 2 12" versions of the same series woofer. So why pay for 2 subs, bigger box, etc, when you can just get a single 15? Any good 15 will have just as much SQ as a 12, and they can hit lower (normally) due to a traditionally lower Fs.


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

sr20dem0n said:


> Forget the myth that 15's are boomy and have bad SQ
> You made the point on why to get a 15 in your post right here, it has almost as much displacement as 2 12" versions of the same series woofer. So why pay for 2 subs, bigger box, etc, when you can just get a single 15? Any good 15 will have just as much SQ as a 12, and they can hit lower (normally) due to a traditionally lower Fs.


I'd still rather 2 12's. Yes, the 15" can reach lower tones, but if were talking about sounds we can actually hear, I don't think it really matters. Are you planning on talking to a herd of elephants or play music?

I mean for a full, effective sound, you can't leave big gaps in the frequency responses of each speaker (It's hard for me to explain, but I hope you can see where I'm going here).

I mean, you need: 
HIGH - MID-HIGH - MID - MID LOW - LOW
for effective sound

with a straight 15 in there, it's more like: 
HIGH - MID-HIGH - MID --------Nothingness------- *REALLY LOW* - *INFRASONIC* 

At least this is what I see from it.


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

ny98max said:


> That is why Kicker is sold in Bestbuy, bvwahahahah... No SQ car ever used, uses or will use Kicker.


I have 2 12" L7s they are good imo. I have never seen kicker in a best buy and it is not on there website either make sure you check before you tell people other wise. By the way bestbuy has a clifford matrix alarm one of the best alarms you can get


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## ny98max (May 10, 2003)

scrappy said:


> I have 2 12" L7s they are good imo. I have never seen kicker in a best buy and it is not on there website either make sure you check before you tell people other wise. By the way bestbuy has a clifford matrix alarm one of the best alarms you can get


I seen plenty of kicker in my bestbuy here.
I am not talking about anything except CarAudio.. You should not get that at bestbuy, and if they sell it, its crap. Sony and Kicker crap..


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## Russia (Jul 24, 2003)

1997 GA16DE said:


> Are you planning on talking to a herd of elephants or play music?


Hahahahahahahahaha :thumbup: Thats a great fucking quote...



ny98max said:


> You should not get that at bestbuy, and if they sell it, its crap. Sony and Kicker crap..



And bro, "If they sell it at best buy, its crap...no matter what it is"??? Are u serioius? First of all nobody said you would get Kickers for SQ, I said they are SPL subs...But comparing Kicker to a Sony is like fucking rediculous...I havent seen Kicker in best buy and even if I did thats such a general and retarded statement. All it seems like is that u have no idea what ur talking about and you are jus sayin what u heard or what ur makin up in ur head cause the shit ur saying is jus dumb.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

1997 GA16DE said:


> I'd still rather 2 12's. Yes, the 15" can reach lower tones, but if were talking about sounds we can actually hear, I don't think it really matters. Are you planning on talking to a herd of elephants or play music?
> 
> I mean for a full, effective sound, you can't leave big gaps in the frequency responses of each speaker (It's hard for me to explain, but I hope you can see where I'm going here).
> 
> ...


Just because it's bigger doesn't mean it can only play subsonic frequencies. Cmon man, based on that logic an 8" sub couldn't hit below 60Hz and there could be no such thing as a 15" full range speaker (rock concerts, HT, etc). A 15 can play the same frequencies as a 12 (as long as it's built to do so, which most of them are), it can just play all of them louder and can dig deeper. Not many 12's can hit 20-30Hz with much emphesis at all (even doubled up), this is where the 15 shines because it generally has no problem in these areas. And yes, 20-30Hz is very audible.


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

sr20dem0n said:


> Just because it's bigger doesn't mean it can only play subsonic frequencies. Cmon man, based on that logic an 8" sub couldn't hit below 60Hz and there could be no such thing as a 15" full range speaker (rock concerts, HT, etc). A 15 can play the same frequencies as a 12 (as long as it's built to do so, which most of them are), it can just play all of them louder and can dig deeper. Not many 12's can hit 20-30Hz with much emphesis at all (even doubled up), this is where the 15 shines because it generally has no problem in these areas. And yes, 20-30Hz is very audible.


yea, it can hit lower frequencies than a 12, but every note the 12 plays is audible. I think what I'm trying to say is going from 6.5's to 15s is like having 1" tweeters, 12" subs, and nothing in between...

Where's the mid-bass? a 12 at least covers the mid-bass that the 6.5s can't produce. A 15" sub completely skips over that range and goes straight for the lowest frequencies possible


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

most 15's can play up to 70-80Hz without a problem, which is the highest you should have any sub lowpassed, regardless of the size (except for some 8's that are more midbass than subwoofers)

And you're right, every note most 12s play is audible, but they don't play every audible note. Most of them die off quickly after 30Hz, that leaves almost an entire octave that you would be able to hear if the sub could play it.


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## ny98max (May 10, 2003)

Buy a sub that sounds good to you, and if you listen to a lot of Rap or Electronica, I suggest 2 10" or 2 12" Subs.
I got 2 JL Audio subs and I am pretty happy.
Although my next subs are probably going to be Oz Audio.


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## drift240sxdragqueen (Oct 23, 2002)

wut bestbuy do you go to? i'm in dallas and i have never seen kicker before. i happen to have bought some L5's just like Russia although they aren't installed i'm pretty sure they can do some damage... maybe we can have a lil SPL competition at one of the DNE meets ...although u won't be hearing any music from my speakers, u will just feel my bass... right sr20dem0n 
(reason is speakers suck and subs rock :fluffy: )


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

I don't want to have a SPL competition....mine isn't loud enough
well, atleast not loud enough to compete against you bastards with multiple L5s and L7s 

I want to get mine metered soon, other people I've talked to with identical setups are hitting low 140's, I figure as long as I'm in the 140's at all I'd be happy.


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## nomellocreampig (Jan 21, 2004)

even if best buy did start sellin kickers maybe they are trying to upgrade the shitty sony things htye have now. i want some kickers after my sisters ex's he had 2 15's maybe 12 dont remember its been awhile but he had them in the back of his grand prix and all i can say is wow..... better then the bass button on my sony walkmen :-D


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## drift240sxdragqueen (Oct 23, 2002)

lol bass button


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## ny98max (May 10, 2003)

Okay, there is a big FINE line between sounding loud and sounding loud and clean.
Kicker is like a Walmart brand to me personally. 
And remember you almost ALWAYS get what you pay for, be it with subs, amps or speakers.


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

ny98max said:


> Okay, there is a big FINE line between sounding loud and sounding loud and clean.
> Kicker is like a Walmart brand to me personally.
> And remember you almost ALWAYS get what you pay for, be it with subs, amps or speakers.


I agree, Kicker and SONY Xplod seem to fit in the same category to me. They are cheap, joke brand, products that are so popular for 2 reasons: 1.The companies whore themselves out to every store they can find and 2. With Names like Xplod and Kicker, some 16 year old kid would prolly choose it b/c the name sounds and looks cool. 

There are more wanna-be 2F2F ricers out there than there are intelligent car audio gurus. To someone that doesn't know any better, they are going to go to walmart, or pep-boys, or best buy for their setup. They have no idea what a true audio place even is (aka StereoRama *which is local for me and they have been in MANY magazines* and AVE or any place that sells the REAL stuff). They are also too dumb to know what's good and what's not, if it's catchy to the eye, and it's loud, it's gonna sell.


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## ny98max (May 10, 2003)

Finally someone backs me up here..

I just wanted to show you something (Russia):

"The titanium Eclipse is very, very good. I was originally going to get a W7 (I've always used JL in the past) but ran out of patience several months ago. I've still never heard one.

A few "issues" you may find:
Cost! Last I checked, the W7 and Ti Eclipses both retail for well over $500. The Kicker Squares and CV Strokers should both be under $500 and may be capable of equivalent volume, but their sound quality will be crap in comparison."

http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=38469
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3072559965&category=39777

Look up prices for JL 12w7, it costs more than 2 of those Kickers.
You get what you pay for. JL > Kicker.


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## 200sxser96 (Nov 8, 2003)

one word, KOVE


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## Russia (Jul 24, 2003)

Well I understand where you get what u pay for would come in between Kickers and W7's...The L7 is the closest from the L line to it, I never said Kicker was the best, all I said is that its a good SPL sub for its price, its not cheap, it handles its power and its reliable...it does exactly what they say it will...Of course a 700$ sub is gonna sound much better than a 300$ sub, at least I would hope. I dont think comparing Kicker to Sony is right tho, I wasnt talking about the very high end subs, but comparing it to the subs in its price range, its by far one of the best for SPL.

And Im not a 16 y/o kid who walked into Best Buy and said Wow! Kicker sounds cool! Il take 2! I talked to a good friend of mine who is a proffesional audio installer for 11 years now and said look, I dont have a lot of money (Iam 17 after all bro), I dont want cheap shit so Im willing to put out a decent amount, and I want something that will hit hard and have SPL...b/c it sounds good with the music I listen to (Rap.) Right away he recommended the Kicker line...I mean for real if I had 10,000$ to spend on a system I wouldnt run to Kicker for the best quality...but with my budget, I think that out of SPL, Kicker is the best bang for the buck. I dont have a problem you telling me Kicker sucks compared to the W7, Im sure it does...you're right, you get what u pay for, but saying Kicker is just like sony to me is rediculous...I think my 2 L5's will knock any Sony 12" sub out no sweat. All I said is that its not garbage...if ur rich and ur looking at top notch expensive stuff I guess it is, but in the real world its a very good and loud sub, with good quality, rating, and reputation for the money that you pay for it thats all. Dont get me wrong, I would love a W7 and would take it over my subs any day, but comming back to reality all Im saying is that saying u can buy it at best buy, its garbage isnt right comparing it to other similarly priced subs liek sony, or pyramid or all that other shit u kno?


P.S. FUCK! 2 L7's for 250$ FUCKING DOLLARS!?!?! GOD DAMN! I PAID MORE FOR MY 2 L5's ON EBAY $ MONTHS AGO! ARRGGHH!


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## drift240sxdragqueen (Oct 23, 2002)

*This item has been refurbished to like-new by the manufacturer. It is guaranteed to work and comes with a 90-day warranty.*

refurbished L7's thats why they are only 250...


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## Ninety-Nine SE-L (May 5, 2002)

honestly, I'm not a fan of major bass. Who wants a subwoofer that's louder than all the mids/highs put together? You can't listen to a song if all you hear is the subwoofer kickin in the back (especially if the licence plate is louder than the sub). I'm pretty content with jus my bostons, they put out a pretty full range and I'm pretty happy. I am getting a Infinity Perfect 12" in box and with an amp from SentraStyleEMW. Even so, I'm only doing it b/c I'm getting an excellent deal, I don't plan on cranking the sub like mad, I jus wanna get out some of the lower tones I'm missing in there.

I think Subs are just an ego thing. People jus wanna have loud bass to impress others, which is stupid. It's about enjoying what you're listening to with a full spectrum of sound. I mean, people crank their subs so loud, they can't even make out the words in the song. Unless you're listening to Barry White, most of the music can be heard in the mid-range.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

1997 GA16DE said:


> I think Subs are just an ego thing.


Get a quality sub, you will think VERY differently. Listening to anything without my A back there just sounds hollow and weak.

About the whole Kicker=crap thing....I'll just say this. They are not SQ drivers, and comparing them to SQ drivers is rediculous. They are very good at what they do, and that is to get loud. IMO they are very comparable to the DD drivers (except not as good) and the RF HX2. If all you want is SPL then they are a very good choice, it's insanely hard to beat their output for the price, and they're still reliable.


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## Russia (Jul 24, 2003)

Hmm...you have a very good way of taking my 6 page post and summarizing into 2 sentences...Thats all I was getting to pretty much and u guys took me saying that Kicker is the cream of the crop or whatnot.


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

I had 2 jl 12w6 thay blew and I took the comparison of price around 300. Kicker was louder and yeah if I had the money I would run w7 to each his own ive had over four different systems in my car and Im starting on my fifth in my new truck so Im not a nebie and I wish I was 16 again


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