# Hidden Body Damage on B15



## estrauss11 (Aug 8, 2002)

Has anyone here dealt with non disclosed body damage done to a B15 Sentra. I have been going back an forth will Nissan Corprate and the Dealership on this issue. Please look at the following web site, and is there anything I can do, besides suing Nissan and the dealership? All of the picures of the car and quotes are in the Photo Gallery.

I hate Security Nissan


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## nastynissan (Jan 26, 2003)

Dude... sorry to hear that your gooing through all this BS..... It sounds like your in the right. And I give you Congrats for seeing this through.. Too many companies try to Run over the Little man. Ocassionally someone has to make a BIG fuss for Shit to be right.. See it to the end and GOOD LUCK....


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## nastynissan (Jan 26, 2003)

I hope you dont mind but I copied to here for easy reading....

"The reason I decided to create this site is due to the hidden body damage I found on my 2002 Nissan Sentra GXE.

The Story
I bought the vehicle on July 11th, 2002 from Security Nissan, in Woodlawn, Maryland (on the outskirts of Baltimore City). I had problems with the climate control system, the vehicle needed a wheel alignment since the vehicle was pulling to the right, and I had a gouge in the right front brake rotor.

On July 15th, 2003, I just came back home from a vacation, I decide to wash the car and check the fluids, since I took the vehicle to Massachusetts. When I opened the hood of the vehicle to check the fluids, I noticed my right front fender bolts were rusting. I was in shock, this was a brand new car it shouldn't be rusting. Then I proceeded by taking the vehicle to Sheehy Nissan, the local Nissan Dealership, they told me it looks like the fender has been off the vehicle, and said I should take the vehicle back to Security Nissan. I then went straight to Security Nissan. The Service Manage said that the fender bolts rusting was a warranty issue. Then my salesperson Stan Mass, took a look and noticed the rough and rusted corner of the Upper Tie Bar. The General Sales Manager David Grasmick then told me he will track down what has happened to vehicle before I bought it.

On July 16th, I called Nissan Customer Service, and told Kurt the customer service rep that answered the phone, about what was happening to the vehicle.

After a few day I still heard nothing from the dealer or Nissan. During this time I took the vehicle to a local body, Chesapeake Body and Frame and the body shop owner, Don Reed looked at the vehicle and stated that the vehicle was in an accident and has been fixed, improperly, due to the rust on the fender, the fender bolts, and Upper Tie Bar. He then took a measurement of the fenders and the Upper Tie bar, going from point to point, and he stated that the right side of the car was pushed back about a 1/4 of and inch.

On July 23rd, 2003 I still haven't found anything out from the dealership or Nissan, so I went to Maryland's Motor Vehicle Administration, to file a complaint against the dealership, for not disclosing the body damage on the vehicle.

The next week, I talked to Jean Worth, the Legal Counsel of Security Nissan, and Vice President of Towson Ford. He wanted to schedule Tuesday August 12th, 2003 to measure the frame, and look at the damage.

On August 12th, 2003, With my father along we took the vehicle to Towson Ford's Body Shop in Towson, Maryland. The people there were Mick Diehl, Body Shop Manager of Towson Ford, Jean Worth of Towson, Ford, Les Yee of Nissan North America, Mervin Spiwak of Motor Vehicle Administration, and a local salesperson that Sells the Genesis 3000 Laser Frame Measuring tool.

When, I met Mr. Yee, the first thing out of his mouth was "I'm on your side". I'm guessing on the advise of Security/Nissan and Towson Ford Body shop expert there was no damage on the vehicle. That was the first thing said after everyone showed up. Next the bottom of the Unibody frame was measured, and Jean Worth said the frame was straight, except for the center of the frame was pushed back about 5mm on either side, they said this was due to the factory. The rust on the fender and the bolts was going to be a warranty issue. I ask them to remove the fender, and they declined, stating that I was trying to find damage that wasn't there. So, my father and I left with the car, felling that we both have been lied to. Also, this was the last I heard from the Factory Rep and the Dealership.

On Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, I called my insurance company Geico, to see if they could look at the car. They said, that they would and proceeded to setup and appointment with one of their Claims Adjusters, at their Towson , Maryland facility on Saturday, August 16, 2003. To see the quote from Geico, please click here.

On Saturday, Adjuster Brenda Terry-Hines looked at the vehicle, and she saw all of the visual damage on the vehicle. From the extent of the damage, she could not believe that the frame was straight. I proceeded to give this information to my Nissan Customer Rep. That was the last I heard from the Factory Rep and the Dealership.

On Friday September 5th, 2003, I call Les Yee, the Nissan Factory Rep. I told him what Geico found , and then he got defensive, by saying that he has dealt with people like me, that try to find damage that isn't there, and that the Geico isn't certified to say what is wrong with the vehicle; and Nissan USA Corporate has lawyers to deal with people like me. After that I called Geico to see what local area collision center have a Laser frame measuring tool. Geico told me they don't know of any off hand, and look in a phonebook. 

I then proceeded to look in the phone, and make calls. Eventually, I contacted Mile One Collision Center in Glen Burnie, Maryland, part Mile One group (For more information on Mile One click here, for the Mile One Collision Center click here). I talked to one of the Center's Managers Elizabeth Meckel, who said bring the vehicle in and we will take a look at it, and measure the frame, on their Genesis 3000 Laser Frame Measurement tool, (the same one used by Towson Ford). On Monday September 8th, 2003, I dropped the vehicle off to the Collision Center. On Tuesday September 9th, 2003 the frame was tested, using the 3 dimensional frame scan. The bottom of the Unibody came out perfect, where on August 12th, 2003, it was off by at least 5mm. When they measured the Upper Tie Bar, they found that the Tie bar was pushed back by 4mm, on the right side, and at least 2 on the drivers side. After that Mile One proceeded to look at the right fender and the right side of the upper tie bar.

During looking at the fender and upper tie bar they found the following

Upper tie bar has rusted through

The fender was long gated to fit

There are non-factory welds on the Upper Tie Bar where it attaches to the right front side of the Unibody.

The headlamp was replaced.

When, I picked up the vehicle that afternoon, Elizabeth, has taken pictures of the vehicle as it was being tested by the Genesis 3000, and pictures of the damage on the Upper Tie Bar and Fender that wasn't there according to the Dealership (Jean Worth) and the Nissan Factory Rep (Les Yee). 

To look at the pictures, quote, and printout from the Genesis 3000 Frame tool click here, or click on Photo Gallery on the left.

After all this I contacted Nissan Customer Service on Thursday September 11th, 2003, and MVA Rep Mervin Spiwak. Mr. Spiwak got back to me and stated there is nothing he can due, unless the vehicle is listed as it shouldn't be driven. Nissan still hasn't got back to me.

As of September 12th, 2003 I sent an electronic copy of all pictures and documentation to Mr. Les Yee, in and email to him. I'm still waiting to receive a read receipt from him looking at the email.

Where I stand right now:

I'm in the process of writing a letter to the Maryland States Attorney's Office, writing a letter to Dick Gelfman, the Consumer Investigator Reporter for WJZ 13 TV station, and contacting the Better Business Bureau of Maryland on the Dealership and Nissan."


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## Silvspec86 (Apr 4, 2003)

...guys, never, ever buy a car from shady car dealers in Maryland, they will screw you over!.... i bought mine at Darcars Nissan on 355 in Rockville, and it took them one and a half months, a flywheel, a clutch, a starter, five tries and who knows how much paint, to fix a scratch the length of a thumbnail and a chip the size of half of a pea...bastards... but atleast they fixed it...sorry bout your situation bro.


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## mpcc82 (Mar 12, 2003)

Im sorry to hear that, i only have dealt with glenburnie nissan and annapolis, they seem to be ok.


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## estrauss11 (Aug 8, 2002)

Thank you everyone. 

Sheehy Nissan in Glen burnie is a Nissan One dealership, and Sheehy annapolis is were my father bought his 98 sentra GXE, not to long after Sheehy bought the dealership. The other good Nissan Dealership is Tisher Nissan in Laurel, they are a Nissan One too. The only reason I bought from Security Nissan was because of the MVCP buying service, the only one that was honest at Security was my salesperson. He went out of his way for me, and told me if I needed anything stop by and see him, which I did for a new key remote since mine went up in janurary. He went to part got a key remote, programmed it, and gave it to me.

Now I know that Tisher Nissan, does the MVCP buying service for the Washington DC area, so that is where I'm going for now on, to buy a new Nissan, like my 04 Quest or 05 Quest, I have been eyeing, when this problem with my Sentra is taken care of.


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## ewraven (Jul 20, 2002)

That's a shame what your having to go through. A few days after I got my car; I found that the jack, spare tire and tool kit had been used. They had rust on them. I brought this up with the dealer and they researched it to see what had happened and ordered me a new jack and toolkit. It was in there computer that the car got a flat while in transportation and the semi truck driver had to put the spare on it. This was San Marcos Auto Outlet Nissan; it took over a month to get the new tools and jack. 

It was right after that; I got a flat and had to use everything.  lol


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## FletchSpecV (Nov 26, 2002)

estrauss11 said:


> *Has anyone here dealt with non disclosed body damage done to a B15 Sentra. I have been going back an forth will Nissan Corprate and the Dealership on this issue. Please look at the following web site, and is there anything I can do, besides suing Nissan and the dealership? All of the picures of the car and quotes are in the Photo Gallery.
> 
> I hate Security Nissan *


I haven't had a bit of problem with my Spec but man I feel for ya with yours. That's a shitty deal. Sorry man.


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## Blank (Aug 21, 2003)

i work for a nissan dealer, sometimes cars on the lot will be in an accident, and our body shop fixes them up, but i havent seen any ones as bad as you describem just minor paint work. if your car has more the $1000 in damafe(i think this is the right $$$amount) thenm they have to disclose it to you, sorry to hear about your problem, ill talk to my GM and find out exactly what the dealership has to disclose to a customer in regards to an accident


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## Blank (Aug 21, 2003)

in NY a dealer has to disclose any frame damage, and 2500 total damage to a customer, if more then this, or if the car was being repaired for more then 30 days, it can tbe sold as new through nissan north america, i dont know maryland law, but i bet its similar

hope this helps


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## SPEEDO (Jun 9, 2003)

Well 1st of all,sorry to here about all the bs your going thru,
Was the car new or used? have you tried carfax? Nissan itself
should'nt be in the blame game,the dealer should be,Nissan just
sold the dealer the vehicle,the dealer acepted it,its there baby,now maybe someone at the dealership took it to lunch and stuffed it,and it was fixed with aftermarket parts or whatever,but you should have been told about the cars history.I would'nt want
a car thats already been wrecked (new) or used for that matter.
but I think you need to go after the dealership,check the local laws etc,Good luck!!!


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## estrauss11 (Aug 8, 2002)

I looked on Carfax and nothing was listed for the vehicle except ownership history.

The vehicle is over due for it's oil change, so I'm going to ask Sheehy Nissan Glen Burnie, to look at the fender, since it looks like I'm going to need a bigger vehicle anyway, Altima or Quest, and if they look at it, I'll buy the new vehicle from them.


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## estrauss11 (Aug 8, 2002)

The local Nissan dealership by my house, has agreed to look at the vehicle, and document the damage, so I can fight the dealership, I bought the vehicle from. 

I'll post more later.


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## estrauss11 (Aug 8, 2002)

Sheehy Nissan, Glen Burnie's Service manager told me to check back with him in a couple of days, after giving him all of the paperwork I have collected on the damage.


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## estrauss11 (Aug 8, 2002)

Finally a breakthrough. I just finished talking to the Service Manager, and Nissan is sending someone out this Friday to look at the car


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## nastynissan (Jan 26, 2003)

Ah so the Company DOES care about its consumers..... Perhaps mentioning tha you have connections with 1000+ Nissan fans/ loyalists will help even more?!?!?!

Good Luck!


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## estrauss11 (Aug 8, 2002)

Well, with all of the documentation, I think Nissan was up with their back against the wall, all of my info on my website kind of spelled out the word Lawsuit, but who knows for sure.


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## nastynissan (Jan 26, 2003)

WHATEVER it takes man...... If it gets the job done...


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## estrauss11 (Aug 8, 2002)

Latest Update: Nissan's Consultant took a look at the vehicle, he came from Sagamore Systems. They declined the warranty claim, stating that the fender has been altered since being shipped from the factory, in Mexico.
I guess this is more fuel on the fire, don't you think?


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## estrauss11 (Aug 8, 2002)

My Nissan Customer Service Rep, told me to take a copy of the paperwork, from the Paint Consultant to Security Nissan. When I got to the dealer, the service people said, they knew nothing about the damage on the vehicle, and then took a copy of everything I had, collected on the damage. When I asked for a copy of the paper for the meeting I had at Security Nissan's Body Shop, on 8/12/03, there wasn't any, so I called the dealership's rep that was there that day, and he said there isn't any documentation for that meeting. I think the dealership doesn't want to acknowledge, that there isn't anything wrong.


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## Trav4011 (May 1, 2002)

You have more patience that I do.. that's for sure.. I would have flipped out on someone by now..
Travis


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## estrauss11 (Aug 8, 2002)

I called Nissan Customer Care on 11/11/2003,and talked to my advisor, on if she connacted the dealer. She told me she sent over the paperwork from Sheehy Nissan in Glen Burnie, by email, and then she called the Dealership, and left a message for the General Sales Manager, on 11/03/2003. I informed her that, I contacted the dealership on Wednesday 11/5/2003, and the General Sales Manager never received the paperwork from Nissan and never received a phonecall from my advisor. I told her that they probably chose to ignore her and Nissan Corporate. She was going to contact the dealership, and talk to the General Sales Manager yesterday. I'm still trying to contact her.


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## lovemysan (Jan 31, 2003)

Keep digging. We're all rootin for you!!
You have worked hard for this. I think A LOT of us have had runin's with shady nissan dealers. Like my personal $600 dollar airbag computer reset. 
I didn't fall for it.

Jerks, I still get angry about that and it was five years ago. 

Good luck! and keep up the good work!

IF we see a strangle killing of a Security nissan employee in the balto times will know. 

clint

aargghh! I hate dealers!

okay I'm over it.


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## estrauss11 (Aug 8, 2002)

*Sorry to Bring up an old thread, but I have an update*

I have an update to this problem, with the hidden body damage. My Sentra was stolen early Sunday morning, when my area got hit by some professional thieves. I'm lucky that they didn't take my 94 sentra. Now I'm hoping the car is a complete loss or not recovered.


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