# How screwed up is my timing? w pics



## seamless (Mar 14, 2012)

Hello all, long time lurker, first time poster. Ok so here is my situation. About 6 months ago the timing chains skipped on my gf's 96 sentra gxe with ga16de. I went ahead and had the head rebuilt and hired a mobile mechanic to rebuild the engine with all new seals and timing components, cap, rotor, plugs wires, coil, battery,alternator and power steering rack. I cleaned all parts personally before re-assembly. It ran great for a few months, but started to develop a rattle on startup that would last for about 30 seconds (sounded like it was coming from drivers side of motor). Plus he did a crap job sealing the oil pan with chunky permatex and used different length screws and even broke 2 screws off. So....

A few days ago I decided to drop the oil pan and do the job right. What i found was a slurry of metal mud in the bottom of the oil pan. I am assuming this is from the new timing parts breaking in? Also there were chunks of permatex in the oil pickup tube screen, blocking about a third of it. I removed the pickup tube, blew it out with compressed air and rinsed it w brake cleaner to remove the chunks. I also cleaned out the oil pan gunk and extracted the broken off bolts. New filter (i primed it first), cleaned all surfaces and installed the oil pan with proper sealant + all new screws, waited a few hours for all to dry and filled w oil.....did a nice job. Started up fine and backed off the ramps and turn off. 

The next morning my gf goes to leave for work and it sputtered and died instantly, now it just crank-no-starts. Checked fuses, fuel, spark is weak and compression is 70psi in all 4 cylinders.....I dont understand how the timing got messed up unless more left over permatex debri plugged up an oil port for the chain tensioners? The oil on the cams is clean so I know the new oil circulated. The chains are intact, upper tensioner looks good and markings on the intermediate gear and cam gears appear to line up where they should be I took off the valve cover to check and here are pics of what i found:








This is where piston 1 is at TDC with cam markings








This is where the crank is In relation to TDC








This is the dizzy in relation to TDC

I noticed the crank marks seem to be off a bit. when Piston 1 is at TDC the first of six timing marks hasnt passed the needle.








This is where the cams are when the crank is on the "0" mark








This is the crank set to the second to last mark. From what I've read this is the "0" mark

Am I right in thinking that there was a link or 2 skipped? and how can I go about correcting it, or will the whole timing cover and all have to come off? Also how could this have happened from doing an oil pan gasket? Thanks!


----------



## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

The first picture of the cam sprockets is not clear as to where the timing marks are located. It's best to clean the areas as best as you can and mark the timing marks on the sprockets and chain with a chalk pencil. This will make it much easier for us to try to help you. However the timing marks on the idler sprocket are not visible; to see those, you'll have to remove the cylinder head front cover. To do the job correctly, you should have an FSM for your car.

You can download an FSM from:

Nissan and Infiniti Service Manuals


----------



## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

Now there's something a bit on the refreshing side...somebody that has done the work, done some of the research, provided the problem, information relating to the problem, proof of the problem, steps taken to resolve the problem, and so on and so on. Gets really boring after awhile of seeing the same type of clowns posting stuff like "My car is red. Why does it run bad?"

Anywhos.....
PM me your email address and I'll send back a PDF of FSM for the engine mechanical section that's applicable to this...if you're email can handle a file just short of 4MB. Timing chain info starts on page EM-69.

From my experience, ya, timing cover has to come off to even move it one tooth. If you're good (and freekin patient!), you might be able to move the upper chain, but not the lower one. And you sure won't be able to check the lower chain to make sure it's on the mark on the crank.

Also, in my experience, even one tooth off CAN (but not necessarily will) smack valves & pistons. The clearance is soooo small that I think it's a crapshoot whether or not anything bad happens. Two teeth will surely smack valves & pistons...no doubt about it.

Since you've got ~70psi on the compression check, I just want to make sure you're doing the compression check correctly...
Fuel pump fuse out and fuel rails bled off (so the engine doesn't accidentally start!), throttle blocked wide open, battery got a good full charge, all of the spark plugs out,...etc.etc.etc. If the throttle isn't wide open, you'll be limiting the air going in, hence lower compression numbers. And same with a dead-ish battery, slower cranking gives you lower compression, spark plugs not out will slow the cranking speed, and so on...

Another thing to check on, is, you mentioned that you fired it up, backed it off the ramps, and shut it down.
Almost sounds like a common problem amongst these engines....the quick startup/move-the-car/shut-it-down, and you end up with a flooded engine. Don't ask how it happens. I don't know. It just does.
Pull the fuel pump fuse, crank it over for awhile, pull the plugs, clean them off, blow them dry (and/or get new NGK's), put it all back together...and magically the damn thing fires right up.
It really does sound as completely and utterly stupid as it really is, but it happens. It's worth a try anyways. Hell, it's a free fix. And apparently the solution to this particular problem/issue is not to do those quick 1 minute drives to move the car.

Oh...and it does look like the upper chain is one tooth off. I think the dot is supposed to be in the middle of the off-color links on the chain, not at the edge.


----------



## seamless (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I pm'd you JDG. What im concerened with most is where the needle on the timing cover points to the timing mark on the harmonic balancer at TDC. My Haynes manual leaves lots to be desired


----------



## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

I don't know what Haynes manual you've got, but the one I've got described it just fine.
As far as the needle on the cover pointing to the balancer, you might want to do some searching on the balancer slipping and the marks moving around. That's entirely possible and it's happened...not to me, but it's happened to others and caused lots of confusion.


----------

