# We May get an serious recall soon = "intake buterfly screws"



## driftking (Aug 7, 2005)

If any of you dont know, there is a big problem with all QR25DE's equiped vehicles (Altima, Spec v sentra, X-trail, etc.).

There are 2 runners in the intake manifold, and the second runner (the short one) that gives you that nice sound after 5000rpm has 4 butterfly valves, every valve has 2 screws, the problem is that this screws become loose after some time. When the screw falls inside of the cilinder, it causes a huge misfire and most likely the loss of compretion on that piston.

Nissan is already making a recall in united states, don't know when they will do it outside of U.S, But I dont want to have my engine replaced again....

Here is the link if any of you want to have more info

http://nissanhelp.com/Ownership/Bulletins/Nissan/2005/NTB05-058.htm


----------



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Easiet thing to do is to remove the upper portion of the intake manifold, remove the screws, and Loctite them. It saves a lot of buttache down the road.


----------



## driftking (Aug 7, 2005)

**



Zac said:


> Easiet thing to do is to remove the upper portion of the intake manifold, remove the screws, and Loctite them. It saves a lot of buttache down the road.


Yeah, but I dont have the guts to do that, too many things to remove, and also I'm suspecting that mine are gone........ Because of the vibration at idle & no change on induction noise after 5000rpm.


----------



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

If they popped, it is likely the damage is done. Modded QRs are seeminly more prone to it that stock, although stock engines can do it as well. Even if a full recall is not issued, you will have a case given the existing recalls and the fact that you own that very engine.


----------



## XTrail1 (Feb 24, 2005)

In Canada only the Sentra is affected by this problem, according to Nissan Canada.


----------



## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

I am not sure, but I thought I read this would be a voluntary recall only?

(not sure what that means exactly and if it would extend to other QR25DE engines apart from the Alti & Sentra)

But IF a butterfly screw travels through the engine it can do a lot of damage & I will surely look into it at my next visit to dealer and if not covered I will have to do it myself. (Angel, here in Montreal, performed this fix during a meeting last month... took him about 30 minutes)

click here- & scroll down to the second recall description


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

ValBoo said:


> I am not sure, but I thought I read this would be a voluntary recall only?
> 
> (not sure what that means exactly and if it would extend to other QR25DE engines apart from the Alti & Sentra)
> 
> ...


You're right about what you "read" and equally right about what you said - potential for major damage here - -

If you get to your dealer before I do (I have to go in for the Cruise Control in about a week or so) let us know what they say. Otherwise, I'll raise it with my dealer....

Cheers = Roger


----------



## XTrail1 (Feb 24, 2005)

Does it matter that the Sentra is put together in Mexico, the Altima in the US and the X-Trail in Japan? Are all engines from Japan? Are all intakes the same? Do we know of any X-Trail anywhere that was affected?


----------



## Kungpow (Aug 26, 2005)

I asked the service department at the Nissan Dealership where I bring my X-trail. They indicated that the X-Trail (over here, at least) isn't included in this recall. :thumbup: 

Just late 04 and early 05 models of Sentras and Altimas.

Anyone else hear any different?


----------



## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Hate to say it guys but whether you get a recall or not, your screws are probably loose. The 02-03s have not been recalled but trust me, they are loose. 6 of my 8 were loose enough to remove with a pinkey finger. If you don't get a recall, I would advise picking up some blue or red Loctite and doing this


----------



## bas (Oct 12, 2005)

I have just suffered this, with both screws from #1 chamber falling into the intake manifold. My local dealer is playing 'hard-ball' and refuses to replace the engine. They have only agreed to replace the butterfly valves and locktite all the screws in place. Appears like a band-aid solution to me, no matter what damage has been caused. Can anyone tell me what damage I should be looking for when I check out the car for myself. Does this type of repair seem correct. Does pitting of the pistons effect engine performance and reliability. Thanks in advance for any answers you have.


----------



## Xtrailguy (Mar 9, 2006)

I owned the SpecV with the 2.5L. It was SO easy to redline that car in the low gears.
I think this is why the SpecVs etc. are getting the recalls. The Xtrail is not driven as hard (by 99% of owners) since it is a heavier vehicle, therefore there are less problems with eating the butterfly screws. However, Nissan should step up to the plate and fix the problem if people are going to start losing engines. It is not very plesent reading posts like bas just made.
Obviously there is a problem here that Nissan is avoiding due to the cost of labour to fix it on a recall.


----------



## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Bas, there's a very helpful flowchart on the link in the first post, did you see it? First thing would be a compression test. If there is damage to the cylinders or elsewhere and they refuse to make it good, don't know your legal system, but here would be giving the dealers a warning of legal action. The engine was faulty, it's their problem. Over here there are free services called the Citizen's Advice Bureau and local government Trading Standards offices who will advise and help consumers take action. Assume you have something similar there. Good luck.


----------



## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

bas said:


> I have just suffered this, with both screws from #1 chamber falling into the intake manifold. My local dealer is playing 'hard-ball' and refuses to replace the engine. They have only agreed to replace the butterfly valves and locktite all the screws in place. Appears like a band-aid solution to me, no matter what damage has been caused. Can anyone tell me what damage I should be looking for when I check out the car for myself. Does this type of repair seem correct. Does pitting of the pistons effect engine performance and reliability. Thanks in advance for any answers you have.


Any loss of compression is likely to come from a damaged valve/valve seat or cylinder bore scoring. Not a pitted piston per se - although that would compromise the integrity of the piston somewhat.

If the screws somehow made their way past the exhaust valves without damaging them or the piston /cylinder bore and got sucked into the cat, they could still damage the engine if you continue to run the engine. In that case, the entire cat would need to be replaced quickly.

If you've a compression gauge, maybe run a compression test first. 

If the compression test doesn't put your mind at ease, and you've access to a borescope you could inspect the cylinder and piston and maybe the valves /seats - without taking off the head.


----------



## bas (Oct 12, 2005)

Nissan Australia apparently asked my local dealer to replace the piston, but the dealer didn't get this aspect of the email and only replaced the butterfly valves/screws and gasket. Check out the damage caused for yourselves and tell me if you would be happy with this band-aid fix. Nissan has given me a 2 year warranty on the engine, but I going to sell it anyway.


----------



## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

Bas, you've got my sympathy. 

Thanks for the pics. It looks like your valve seats took a hit. There's enough evidence on this forum to support your case for a replacement engine or at the very least, a new cyl head and piston. The lost screws are also probably sitting somewhere in your cat too.


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

*Nissan Defect!*

Hi Guys,

Well, as much as I hated for this to happen, it did and our beloved Nissan X-Trail has fallen victim to the known nissan defect and that is the loose intake butterfly screws.

ELEVEN confirmed cases have now been recorded by the Australian X-Trail Forum of this defect taking place and affecting the QR25DE 2.5LT Petrol engine of an xtrail. (5 of those are members and/or friends of members of our forum)

I can only begin to imagine how many more cases are out there which we don't know about, but I am slowly coming across them on the net.

This defect will affect ALL xtrails that have the QR25DE engine between the years of 2001 to 2005 (inclusive) no matter where the engine was assembled.

If any of you in Canada or UK came across a stripped exy from its engine in a dealership, chances are they were performing either a complete engine replacement or changing the butterfly screws for an exy affected by this defect.

Nissan Japan changed the design of these screws in 2006, so all previous models are still running with this 'time-bomb" in their engine.

The problem can materialize at any given time, but more so if you're driving above the 5000RPM mark quite often, as this is when these 4 butterflies operate and open-up to let more air into the engine.

It is EXACTLY the same fault experienced by the Sentra Spec-V and Altima owners and which Nissan U.S. was forced to issue a recall for.

The sad thing is that this exact defect was present with the Nissan engines since 1998 (the V6 for the Nissan Maxima also suffered from this exact fault) and nothing was done by Nissan Japan to address this design fault until 2006!!!

Makes you wonder what are the Nissan Engineers and Designers are getting paid for??

Anyway, am not here to sound alarm bells just yet, as the number of cases where this has happened is still very limited, but you need to be aware of the symptoms of this fault should it ever happen to you and ask your dealer to fix it or replace the engine under warranty, because it is a design fault!! Do NOT pay a cent for this repair, as it is not your fault!!

I have gathered all of the information and history about this fault and put it in a consolidated post on the Aussie Forum, it lists all confirmed cases and photos of the damage caused to the engine. Please feel free to familiarize yourself with it.


----------



## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Jalal, have I understood this right? Has this happened to both you and Bas in the last two weeks?


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Nope Flynn, mine is safe (for now) but I have just come across another Aussie exy that had exactly the same defect as Brett's and it happened to them last month.

I have asked Nissan Australia last year (or the year before) to carry out the U.S. Recall Service on my exy and inspect/loctite these screws and they agreed to do it as (one off).


----------



## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

Ah, I see. I thought you were talking about your own treasured Xt there. 

Bas, hope the outcome is good. If screws had been rattling around in my cylinders I'd want to see the bores first-hand before I was convinced there was no damage.

Often hard to know how representative of the whole problems reported on the net are. Similar with reports of failed turbos. May have been there were a lot of failures or that the minority of owners who had problems came to forums for advice. Just one failure is too many if it's your car.


----------



## SCHESBH (May 25, 2004)

*Metro Nissan*

I just spoke with Serge (Service and Parts Manager) from Metro Nissan about this and sent him the link as well. There is nothing about this regarding the X-Trail BUT he said that he will check mine the next time I am in for Service. As mentioned before they had this with the Altima's and they know what to look for and how to correct this. He said it was not a problem to check for it. So anyone who purchased from Metro Nissan in Lasalle Quebec, see Serge and they will check.

Stephen


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

That is very good news for you Steve and a very nice move by your dealer. While checking them sounds good/easy, it involves removing the intake manifold to check each of these 8 screws and as soon as they touch them to check how tight they're, they will break the seal (if there is any loctitie there). They will be required to remove each of these screws and apply loctite again. Once they put everything back, they should remember to replace the intake manifold gasket (as it is not re-usable) and re-set the ECU and only then declare the recall service inspection as complete. This is a full day job!

Suggestion: While they're at it, you may want to ask them to REPLACE these screws with the new design screws (as per the 2006 models) which have washers.


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

*Improved Design on 2006 Models*

Jalal:

If I read you correctly - and I have read this from you on several occasions - the 2006 models have an improved design (washers) and are therefore not as prone to the problem  

Is that correct ??

Could you kindly advise or, even better, point to your source.....

Not that I doubt you - it's just that this is such an important piece of info. to have.

Thanks = Roger


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Sure Roger,

The source of this confirmed piece of information is the Sentra Forum AND most importantly Nissan Australia, who also said that it is no longer an issue for 2006 (and up) models.

This has been further confirmed with the following part numbers:

*Old Intake Manifold for QR25DE engine with old type screws Part Number: 14001-8J000*

*NEW Intake Manifold for QR25DE engine with NEW type screws Part Number: 14001-8J001*

The only thing I am trying to find-out now, is the possibility of obtaining the new screws and butterfly plates as a kit without having to buy the whole intake manifold. Still waiting for confirmation on these parts (if I can find them)

In regards to the reliability of the new screws with washers, I can't be certain and only time will tell, if they indeed better than the old design, but at least you will sleep better knowing that the new screws with washers have loctite applied to them, while the ones we currently have don't have any loctite (meaning a time bomb)

Hope this helps.

_R.I.P. Boris Yeltsin_


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

Thanks Jalal - this is quite helpful - and somewhat reassuring - - 

maybe there was a deep, hidden, psychic reason why I moved from the 2005 to the 2006 - - who knows.

Cheers


----------



## The Mad Hat Man (Oct 3, 2006)

Why cant you remove the current screws and refit with loctite?


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

The Mad Hat Man said:


> Why cant you remove the current screws and refit with loctite?


You can, but loctite by itself is not a permanent solution and it will deteriorate with time and heat in that area. There has to be locking washers to stop these screws coming loose again.


----------



## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

There is a TSB out for the 2002-2004 Sentra SpecV about this.
And I don't think it includes adding lock washers?


----------



## Revhead Kev (Apr 1, 2007)

Jalal,
It seems that this problem could be enhanced by constant high rpm excursion and maybe because the Exy is not considered a performance car like the Sentra Spec-V is the reason why Nissan have not issued a recall on the Xtrail for the screws ?


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

ValBoo said:


> There is a TSB out for the 2002-2004 Sentra SpecV about this.
> And I don't think it includes adding lock washers?


It doesn't because the new butterfly plates and the new screws, have WASHERS already when the recall is carried-out and the new screws are fitted.

Kev: I don't think that's a good enough reason not to issue a recall for the xtrail, after all, they gave us a car that can red line at 6,700RPM (6,200RPM in Valboo's case and the newer xtrails  ) so, they can expect them to be driven like the Sentra and face exactly the same problem.


----------



## flynn (Jun 23, 2006)

aussietrail said:


> You can, but loctite by itself is not a permanent solution and it will deteriorate with time and heat in that area. There has to be locking washers to stop these screws coming loose again.


They offer several specs so important to use the right one if it's used. Loctite Worldwide Or there's always green Hermatite hard-setting gasket goo.


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

The one which Nissan used as part of the recall was Loctite High Temp #272, but I still believe it won't last forever and will break-up with time.


----------



## LEONGSTER (Apr 9, 2006)

flynn said:


> They offer several specs so important to use the right one if it's used. Loctite Worldwide Or there's always green Hermatite hard-setting gasket goo.


And to clean out the threads, screws and throttle plates properly before applying the loctite!


----------



## GFB (Oct 16, 2006)

# 272 is the right Loctite. So, just checked the durability in my catalogue:

Heat aging: 
50% initial strength after 5000 h at 180°C
But graph shows no strength drop when at 150°C or lower temperatures...

Solvent:
Unleaded petrol - 100% initial strength after 1000 h in direct contact
Motor oil - 75% initial strength after 1000 h in direct contact (some from breather?)

[Note: 100 000 km's @ 80km/h = 1250 h ]

Not for ever but pretty effective I guess?

Cheers


----------



## The Mad Hat Man (Oct 3, 2006)

it would at least give yu some security until yo car goes in to the stealers or in case they say "no"


----------



## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

For those who are interested here is some info about this "voluntary" recall:

2004 NISSAN SENTRA, 2004-2005 NISSAN ALTIMA; VOLUNTARY SERVICE CAMPAIGN QR25DE POWER VALVE


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

*Nissan steps up to the plate*

Mark

This is very informative and will, no doubt, be quite beneficial to many owners with the affected 2.5 engine - - I'm a tad surprised that they are being a bit "selective" with this.

That being said, it certainly looks like Nissan is stepping up to the plate on this and even providing a loaner (rental) car free of charge.

That does not appear to be happening in other parts of the World.

"Oh Canada, our home & native land".............


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

The Mad Hat Man said:


> it would at least give yu some security until yo car goes in to the stealers or in case they say "no"


For sure mate! Having loctite there is much better than having none of it.

Marc: The recall link was posted in the first post of this thread by driftking.

Roger said



> That does not appear to be happening in other parts of the World.


Are you referring to the actual problem or that you don't get a loan car in other parts of the world. Sorry but am a bit confused by your statement.


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

Sorry for the confusion Jalal...

What I meant was that, while the problem exists in other parts of the World, the response from Nissan does not appear to be of the same quality - including the use of a loaner car or not.

Hope this clarifies.

Cheers = Roger


----------



## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

aussietrail said:


> Marc: The recall link was posted in the first post of this thread by driftking.


OOooops  sorry.


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

*World Differences*



aussietrail said:


> Sure Roger,
> 
> The source of this confirmed piece of information is the Sentra Forum AND most importantly Nissan Australia, who also said that it is no longer an issue for 2006 (and up) models.
> 
> ...


Not unexpectedly, there appears to be some differences with parts themselves and part numbers in different parts of the World.

Was at my dealer this morning and did some checking on the numbers quoted in this post.

According to the computer at my dealer (updated monthly - last update was 20 April) those numbers (in the Canadian system) are for the Altima. 

And while it may be (more-or-less) the same engine, the part number for the Intake Manifold for the Canadian version of the X-Trail is different - it is 14001 AE010.

Further the Parts Manager tells me that this part # covers the period from March 2004 to Jan. 2007.

With the first X-Trail arriving in Canada on or about 28 April 2004 (as a 2005 model) these dates make some sense.

There is/was an acknowledged issue with the Altima, many of which had engine replacements - my dealer had a bunch of them (with new engines) to sell at bargain prices - and they did sell very quickly.

With regard to inventory of intake manifolds (which is a partial indicator of the "need" for these parts) there are 90+ of these in inventory for the part number related to the Altima and only 7 for the part number associated with the X-Trail.

So, round and round we go, trying to ascertain if this problem pertains to any of the X-Ts in Canada and, in my case, with particular regard to the 2006 models....

However this plays out, I will be sticking with the X-Trail and, quite frankly, I'd be quite happy to have a new engine in an old (style) X-Trail.... 

Cheers = Roger


----------



## Ottawa-X (Apr 15, 2007)

Interesting in the voluntary recall, it calls for replacement of the screws, not using the same with lock washers or loctite. So using the part numbers identified in the thread, you could conceivably do the job yourself, if you were so inclined.


----------



## Ottawa-X (Apr 15, 2007)

I just checked with my dealer - he has done a fair bit of warranty work on other vehicles with the same engine but no X-Trails that he is aware of. The "part" (new screws and gaskets according to him) can be purchased for $80 CDN and the fix is about 3-4 hours labor at $87 per hour. He recommended waiting until the end of the warranty period and if no problems by then, get it fixed pro-actively.

Regarding the rear handle rust issue, he said the replacement handle is $148 and it would take about 1.5 hours of labor to pro-actively fix it.


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

*VOID Warranty*



Ottawa-X said:


> I just checked with my dealer - he has done a fair bit of warranty work on other vehicles with the same engine but no X-Trails that he is aware of. The "part" (new screws and gaskets according to him) can be purchased for $80 CDN and the fix is about 3-4 hours labor at $87 per hour. He recommended waiting until the end of the warranty period and if no problems by then, get it fixed pro-actively.
> 
> Regarding the rear handle rust issue, he said the replacement handle is $148 and it would take about 1.5 hours of labor to pro-actively fix it.


See the piece I've highlighted in red in your post - I think the reason for this recommendation is that if you were to do this as a DIY, while the vehicle is still under warranty - it would then VOID your warranty......

Best to be safe than sorry - seems like the problem has been manifesting itself after a fair amount of mileage on the vehicle - I'm inclined to take a "wait & see" approach.

It would appear that when Nissan decides to resolve the issue (in whatever manner they decide) they do so regardless of whether the vehicle is in warrant" or not...

Time will tell...

Cheers = Roger


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Thanks for checking this out Roger and providing an update on this.

The part numbers could very well be different between one country and another and I experienced this first had when I was ordering the cross bars for my hyper roof rails locally. It was a completely different part number on the Nissan Australia inventory.

Having said that, the Intake Manifold for both the Altima and the exy (as well as the Sentra Spec-V) is EXACTLY the same, so Nissan Canada maybe just assigning a different part number to every car model for easier identification and to keep track of stock.

What would have been a good question to ask your dealer is if part number 14001 AE010 included the new type of screws WITH washers or WITHOUT. This in turn will determine what you (xtrails in Canada) currently have in your intake manifold.



> Ottawa said:
> 
> Interesting in the voluntary recall, it calls for replacement of the screws, not using the same with lock washers or loctite. So using the part numbers identified in the thread, you could conceivably do the job yourself, if you were so inclined.


Yes, the replacement of screws included fitting the ones with washers and while this process was being done, they used loctite. As for the DIY suggestion, this will VOID your warranty AND put your exy at risk of having a warranty claim denied should it ever happen to you.



> Ottawa said:
> 
> I just checked with my dealer - he has done a fair bit of warranty work on other vehicles with the same engine but no X-Trails that he is aware of. The "part" (new screws and gaskets according to him) can be purchased for $80 CDN and the fix is about 3-4 hours labor at $87 per hour. He recommended waiting until the end of the warranty period and if no problems by then, get it fixed pro-actively.


Very good! Can you please ask him for the part number of the (new screws and gasket kit)? His suggestion to wait until the end of the warranty period is a reasonable one and I would have done the same.

Having said that, if this procedue is performed by an authorised Nissan Dealer, it will have no impacts on warranty and will be a guaranteed job as well (recorded in their database)



> Roger said:
> 
> seems like the problem has been manifesting itself after a fair amount of mileage on the vehicle - I'm inclined to take a "wait & see" approach.


If you're still under the factory warranty, I agree with you Roger, but for those who are no longer covered by warranty, the pro-active fix of this potentially major problem is the way to go. I'd rather NOT have any problems with my current engine and then hope Nissan agrees to replace it and while they may decide, I will be without a car for un-known period of time. It is a major inconvenience I am trying to avoid at all costs.


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

aussietrail said:


> Thanks for checking this out Roger and providing an update on this.
> 
> *What would have been a good question to ask your dealer is if part number 14001 AE010 included the new type of screws WITH washers or WITHOUT. This in turn will determine what you (xtrails in Canada) currently have in your intake manifold*.


Jalal:

Very informative information you have provided in this post and I agree with a lot of what you have said.

Your question about the "washers" is what's at the heart of this matter...

My source of information was the "Parts" Manager - I asked him about the "washers" and he gave me the "deer caught in the headlights" look....he then started to "babble" about there not being any washers "that he was aware of".

At that point I realized that my question was for a more "technical" person to respond to.

I have a rapport with the "Service" Manager as well and decided to put the question to him - unfortunately, he was not available. I'll catch up with him next time I'm at the dealers and try to get some more "specific" information....

Cheers = Roger


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Hi Roger,

I think I found the part number for the new screws, plates and new gasket kit that was used in the recall.

Can you please check this number with your mate at the dealership next time you're there?

Part Number: 14511-8J00B


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

Will do....will be next week (earliest).


----------



## Ottawa-X (Apr 15, 2007)

I just check with my dealer in Ottawa. This part number (14511-8J00B) does come up on his system and it is a screw with a lock-washer. The price is $1.60 CDN each.


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Ottawa-X said:


> I just check with my dealer in Ottawa. This part number (14511-8J00B) does come up on his system and it is a screw with a lock-washer. The price is $1.60 CDN each.


Awesome! We're getting close to solving this riddle 

Now, who's gonna order these screws?


----------



## Canada's Far East (Jun 15, 2005)

aussietrail said:


> Awesome! We're getting close to solving this riddle
> 
> Now, who's gonna order these screws?


At only a buck 60 each, we could send them down to you by the gross


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Thanks Roger, sounds tempting to almost issue the Australian Recall myself. hehehehe


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

OK Guys,

This is getting complicated with these damn screws LOL

I just called my dealer here in Sydney and when I gave them the part number for the new screws, they told me, they don't have them and only have the following part number:

Part number 14511-8J00*A*

These are the old screws with NO washers! 

Looks like I'll be importing a bag of screws from Canada LOL


----------



## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Guys, changing to the new screws is no guarantee that they will not become loose in the future. Just take out the top of your intake manifold and loctite the existing ones in. It's much safer than guessing which part number is on your X-Trail.


----------



## GFB (Oct 16, 2006)

I feel inclined to agree with Terranismo. Maybe adding the locking washer is simply a belts-and-braces approach to make one feel better. What I can tell you is that in military and aerospace engineering a lock washer is not recognised as a true locking device.

Even if Loctite has degraded over many years it will still clog-up the threads, but a screw with only a lock washer becomes completely free having turned through only a small angle. Wonder whether Nissan is using the spring lock washers (slit at one place) or multiple toothed lock washers in this case? 

Cheers


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

GFB and Terranismo,

Maybe you guys haven't read our previous replies where we discussed the loctite and said that it is a MUST to use when the screws are changed, but I can't give the same advice as Terranismo did for someone who is still under factory warranty, for reasons I have already explained. The kit we're talking about and the part numbers we're discussing, was part of what Nissan used to carry out the recall service for the Sentra and Altima and they DID use the loctite with the new screws too, so the locking washers was not the only preventative measure in this case.


----------



## GFB (Oct 16, 2006)

Hallo Jalal

No problem my side - I am fully aware you support/recommend the use of Loctite.  You may smile again, mate!
I'm trying to say that maybe it's not worth sorting out or being concerned about the confusing washer issue - though still interesting to follow! This may also explain why Nissan can afford to have with and without washers in different countries?

If still under warranty then I would (have to) take what Nissan gives me.

You do not perhaps know what these washers look like, Jalal?

Regards


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

GFB said:


> Hallo Jalal
> You may smile again, mate!


I'll try, but every time I remember this bloody time bomb in my engine bay, I get the shakes LOL 



> I'm trying to say that maybe it's not worth sorting out or being concerned about the confusing washer issue - though still interesting to follow!


I am not getting confused by this, but it is interesting to establish the relation between the past recall for the Sentra and Altima and possible coming recall for exy to know what they gonna stick in our engine bay or what we have now, because Nissan keep saying it is not an issue for the xtrails to worry about and I disagree.



> If still under warranty then I would (have to) take what Nissan gives me.


If it is still under warranty you can ignore this thread all together or wait until you receive a letter from Nissan informing you about the recall (if one is issued) 



> You do not perhaps know what these washers look like, Jalal?
> 
> Regards


I have no idea, hence my request for a bag of screws and washers from Canada  As Australia seems to be short on these magic screws and washers LOL


----------



## GFB (Oct 16, 2006)

> I'll try, but every time I remember this bloody time bomb in my engine bay, I get the shakes LOL


Even though mine is still under warranty; do not think for one moment I'm not concerned (having a long trip coming up in June into the outback of neighboring Namibia)!  

Emailed sections of this thread to my dealer principal few days ago; locally nobody knows about the problem... He forwarded it to the Field Product Support Engineer in SA, who in turn passed it on to Nissan Europe. No response so far. Tried this morning to hear about the part number you guys mentioned but they could not help because I did not had my VIN number with me.

Cheers


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Wow mate, keep us updated if you hear anything back. I think Nissan Japan is keeping it all a very tight secret for now and for quite some time.


----------



## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

aussietrail said:


> GFB and Terranismo,
> 
> Maybe you guys haven't read our previous replies where we discussed the loctite and said that it is a MUST to use when the screws are changed, but I can't give the same advice as Terranismo did for someone who is still under factory warranty, for reasons I have already explained. The kit we're talking about and the part numbers we're discussing, was part of what Nissan used to carry out the recall service for the Sentra and Altima and they DID use the loctite with the new screws too, so the locking washers was not the only preventative measure in this case.


Jalal, even with the new locking washers and loctited directly from Nissan, the screws will become loose. Most people in Spec-Vs for example have found their 05-06 cars with loose butterfly screws from the showroom floor. Some are not even properly torqued, and remember these are cars that are already built with the stop-gap measure Nissan is taking. 

Remember, just take off the upper intake manifold, and loctite (red) the screws. You are golden to go. I eliminated my whole assembly from scratch since I didn't want to deal with them anymore and the truck did not lose any power.


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Terranismo said:


> Remember, just take off the upper intake manifold, and loctite (red) the screws. You are golden to go. I eliminated my whole assembly from scratch since I didn't want to deal with them anymore and the truck did not lose any power.


Yeah, Loctite #272 (Red Hi-Temp) is the one to use.

I have read about one guy with a Sentra getting rid of all 4 butterflies and screws and reported no impact on performance, but not enough details were provided and I am a bit concerned doing it.

Can you provide a bit more details on why there wouldn't be an impact and why have them there in the first place, if they're not doing their job?


----------



## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

The assembly is just a way to permit more air to flow once the QR reaches a certain rpm range. By restricting air flow down low it's supposed to improve torque. 

Honestly I took the whole assembly off and didn't notice any difference in performance. The modification isn't permanent and you can always put the assembly back (although I don't know what for).


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Terranimso, my understanding that if you remove these butterflies, it will affect your low end torque, but won't affect much of the higher end (maybe even make it better) but I also heard that it makes the engine sounds quite loud. Can you confirm any of this?


----------



## The Mad Hat Man (Oct 3, 2006)

aussietrail said:


> Terranimso, my understanding that if you remove these butterflies, it will affect your low end torque, but won't affect much of the higher end (maybe even make it better) but I also heard that it makes the engine sounds quite loud. Can you confirm any of this?



Is this the same on the 2.0?


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

The Mad Hat Man said:


> Is this the same on the 2.0?


Not sure about the 2.0LT versions, I have no experience with them at all, as we only have the 2.5LT here. Sorry.


----------



## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Jalal, the truck doesn't have the switch over when the CVTC opens the secondary butterflies at 5k rpm. It sounds the same as before, but remember my truck isn't the epitome of the typical X-Trail 

The QR20DE also uses the same assembly as it's the same enine head and intake manifold.


----------



## GFB (Oct 16, 2006)

Also my understanding is that the function of these valves is likely to only affect low-end torque. I would therefore suggest that the effect thereof is likely to be only observed whilst doing real torque requiring off-road stuff at low speed. But, it might be difficult to objectively feel and compare this! Or, you might be able to compensate for the loss by doing these at higher revs (not good!). 

I do not know enough about the topic but changing engine systems like this might affect max power, max torque, at what revs they peak, and also fuel consumption. Trying to say: not that easy to make a fair comparison. Also know that the movement of intake air may be tuned via intake length to achieve certain dynamic or frequency flow effects (the outer-most ducts are longer).

I would not take it out because I like having good torque at low speeds. 

Cheers


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

GFB said:


> I would not take it out because I like having good torque at low speeds.
> 
> Cheers


That is exactly my concern as well. As our xtrails is a 4WD type of car and not usually used for everyday racing type of driving, low end RPM is where it spends most of its time on road and low end torque is very important.

In Terranismo's case, he might have compensated that loss by doing other performance mods, so when he removed these butterflies, he didn't feel much difference, but I am pretty sure that a stock exy would almost certainly be affected and even mine with headers and a CAI.

There was only ONE Sentra guy that did this and he also turbo boosted his Sentra afterwards, so didn't feel the loss of low end torque, but at the same time he was crucified by the rest of the Sentra community LOL


----------



## GFB (Oct 16, 2006)

Last night I digged out an article I once filed about inlet systems. Just to recap some interesting & relevant points for the more technical minded:

Low revs requires *long *inlet ducts of *smaller *diameter.
The above are typically beneficial up to 3800 rev/min (with max benefit not at, but nearer to the upper end of this range...).
The combined effect of length & diameter could typically give you a 10% increase in efficiency.

Regards


----------



## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

GFB, you're talking about intake runner length, it is my understanding that the butterfly assembly affects turbulence inside the runners. It's a two-edged sword, since you may lose torque low on the powerband, but you may also gain horsepower in the upper range by having air passing unrestricted to each cylinder.

Our trucks already have over 170lbs-ft of torque and are lethargic in the upper rev range (thanks in no part to brick-like aerodinamics), so I chose the higher horsepower tradeoff of the equation. That coupled, with not having to worry ever again about the crazy screws jiggling loose sealed the deal for me. In dyno testing my torque curve was as flat as can be, which I think is more beneficial on a daily driver than a switch on-off system like the butterfly assembly.


----------



## GFB (Oct 16, 2006)

Terranismo, not sure what you mean with "intake runner" but if you are referring to the single black plastic duct feeding the throttle body, then no, the article specifically discussed the influence of the (say) 4 ducts feeding individual cylinders. Cannot remember what they called these "ducts" but they e.g. also discussed the fact that the 4 should have equal lengths to achieve similar performance from each cylinder. It is however true that the runner adds to the total length and therefore also affects frequency flow effects.

My understanding is that turbulence is unwanted inside the intake passages, or that is what the article also discussed. However, turbulence is a good phenomenon inside the combustion chamber where it promotes proper combustion.

I surely respect your personal preference for better performance at high revs. And I agree, a flat torque curve is good for general drivability. But do you perhaps know what it looks like in a standard issue XT? When discussing all these things I think we should also keep in mind that your vehicle sees the combined effect of quite a few mods?

Cheers


----------



## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

GFB said:


> Terranismo, not sure what you mean with "intake runner" but if you are referring to the single black plastic duct feeding the throttle body, then no, the article specifically discussed the influence of the (say) 4 ducts feeding individual cylinders. Cannot remember what they called these "ducts" but they e.g. also discussed the fact that the 4 should have equal lengths to achieve similar performance from each cylinder. It is however true that the runner adds to the total length and therefore also affects frequency flow effects.
> 
> My understanding is that turbulence is unwanted inside the intake passages, or that is what the article also discussed. However, turbulence is a good phenomenon inside the combustion chamber where it promotes proper combustion.
> 
> ...


The single black pastic part feeding the throttle body is the intake tract. Runners are exactly what you are referring to in your response (the 4 ducts feeding individual cylinders).

Turbulence isn't what's good, it's the scavenging effect the swirl has on the cylinders during combustion. Furthermore, intake runner length also is dependent on head design so you can't use a generalized simplification like the one above.

I also respect your opinion, but I disagree with the issues you are using to back yourself up. Several QR owners (specifically Spec-V_, have removed the entire butterfly assembly without detrimental effects. You must also remember that this system is not exclusive to X-Trails or the QR engine, and as another example I use the KA engine. When the assembly is removed on a KA it loses less than 1-lb-ft of torque on average, but gains upwards of 5hp. Remember that horsepower is derived from torque, so what could probably just happen is a shift in the powerband, a negligable one in fact.


----------



## GFB (Oct 16, 2006)

Hi T

At the risk of boring our fellow forum members:  

Sorry for mixing up some terminology! I do remember the word swirl being used - that probably is the better word in context of the combustion chambers (turbulence is likely to also exist due to the shape, gas properties and flow in that area - further aiding mixing & combustion).

Yes, I am referring to general trends only (and mentioning typical figures only). The relevant article is not specifically Nissan. BTW the article was mentored by a dr. Andrew Taylor who made a career in the field of internal combustion engines.

Yes, power is calculated from torque, but importantly also from rotational speed. Therefore I like to explain torque as a "brute/slow force" and to power as a "speed thing". Although related, the two can be very different (e.g. as in diesel vs petrol engine). 

You like your power; I prefer my torque!


----------



## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

You have to remember something, the butterfly assembly is located between the upper and lower manifolds, not on the runners. So by closing off the runners from air (as the butterflies do), they only work as a baffle plate for noise. That's why you have the audible difference once the secondaries open completly.

As a preventative measure, I would surely take out the whole assembly. It gives piece of mind knowing that one the screws won't find itself lodged in yoir oil pump


----------



## GFB (Oct 16, 2006)

> *GFB*: Emailed sections of this thread to my dealer principal few days ago; locally nobody knows about the problem... He forwarded it to the Field Product Support Engineer in SA, who in turn passed it on to Nissan Europe. No response so far. Tried this morning to hear about the part number you guys mentioned but they could not help because I did not had my VIN number with me.
> 
> *Jalal*: Wow mate, keep us updated if you hear anything back. I think Nissan Japan is keeping it all a very tight secret for now and for quite some time.


Update: The only feedback I got (don’t hold your breath!): 

"The mentioned campaign that the customer refers has not been communicated to Nissan South Africa. Intranet searches to Japan, Europe and North America does not mention the campaign or possible product concern. 

Should the customer feel that there is a concern, he is welcome to take the vehicle to his dealer and ask them to inspect the vehicle."

I also phoned Parts again; according to them we can only order the complete lower intake assembly/manifold here in SA! - nr: 14001AE010. No lower level parts or part numbers available in this case!

:lame: 

To the positive side, so far I could not find a single person referring to a case like this allegedly reported in SA…(?) Not so sure what to do; may be just wait a while (still under warranty).

Regards


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

I think you should take their offer to have the vehicle inspected for this, so at least the inspection will be on record in the Nissan database for later on when your warranty runs-out.

You have nothing to worry about while under warranty, so you might as well as them to inspect it for peace of mind and so that they can apply loctite to these screws. This will save you a great deal of trouble later.


----------



## ukbill (Nov 27, 2007)

*my 2.5 has the problem*

Hi All,
Got my 2.5 x-trail from Nissan Uk 3 years ago. After a high rev incident the EMS light came on and car went to franchise dealer. Problem solved by regaping plug and resetting alarm codes. 2 weeks ago same thing has happened, this time dealer confirmed butterfly screws had "bounced around" inside pot. They could see some crown damage but no debris (endoscope used).
At present the car has an intermittent misfire that no one can trace!. Have ordered replacement NGK plugs and will report results. The misfire only happens when under load going uphill in 3rd or 4th gear.
Have reported fault to Nissan Uk on reference 1-255-90349


----------



## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

Bill,

I would insist on them supplying a new engine !!!


----------



## GFB (Oct 16, 2006)

Hallo ukbill

Sorry to hear this actually happened to your vehicle.

So your XT is a 2004 model, right?

Do you mind saying a bit more what exactly you mean with a "high rev incident"? - I'm still afraid this could happen to my car as well... 

Regards


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

GFB said:


> Hallo ukbill
> Do you mind saying a bit more what exactly you mean with a "high rev incident"? - I'm still afraid this could happen to my car as well...
> 
> Regards


By "High Revs" he means that the car was driven above 5000RPM for a while because this is when the secondary intake opens up and the intake butterfly operates (consequently these screws get loose).

Of course this won't happen if you just go above the 5000RPM once in a while, but the risk will greatly increase if you do so quite often.


----------



## GFB (Oct 16, 2006)

It is the "incident" bit that made me think (and hope!) it might be something more unusual than simply having the secondary passages opened for a while...?

Cheers


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

It will take more than just one "incident" to cause these screws to get loose. This is more likely a result of many "incidents" where high revs were involved.


----------



## ukbill (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi,
You're quite right about there being more than one high rev incident. However the problem manifested itself within 5 minutes of one particular event. Overtaking slower car on dual carriageway when he suddenly speeded up (boy racer I suspect). Needed to use all engine power to overtake before the carriageway narrowed. 5 minutes later the misfire occured.
Since then the nissan franchise dealer tells me the screw has passed through the pot and damaged the spark plug and marked the piston crown. Have replaced all plugs and cleaned all connectors and the misfire seems to have gone. i still await Nissan's reply. Cheers UKbill


----------



## katycat (May 23, 2009)

I own a 2005 xtrail and am going through this very thing with my dealer. They are giving me the run around, I'm going to a 3rd dealer this week to see if I can get anywhere with them. Do you have any information from Nissan as to how this should be covered. I'm in Ontario Canada. Our xtrail is a 2005, 5 speed, 2.5 litre 4 cylinder, SE model. Initially the engine light came on and then the truck strarted bogging down and stalling. Stopped driving it immediately and had son come out to look at it. He checked the plugs and found that the gap was closed on one. He re-gapped it and the engine light went off. Called local dealer to have them look at it. Had vehicle towed as was nervous to drive. They said they could find nothing wrong with it. The vehicle is now burning oil, has a loss of power and has a rough idol. The dealer here is saying that this is not an issue with the Canadian xtrails. I have it booked in on Thursday to have them check the butterfly screws, which is a cost to me even though my vehicle is still under warranty. The dealer will not even look at this thread or the Australian one. They say that information on the internet is not reliable. I can not find anything on the Nissan website about a recall. Any help would be so much appreciated. Love this vehicle and would like to drive it for a while yet.

Thanks

Karan


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Karan,

There has been no official recall for this problem with the xtrails by Nissan, but Nissan Australia confirmed that they have received cases of such a problem here. They told me that because the number of such cases is not large it doesn't warrant issuing a recall for it. Cases where engine replacement was required (and that is almost 99% of such cases) required a great deal of challenge by owners to get Nissan on board.

The dealers have no authority whatsoever to perform the engine swap unless they get a great light from Nissan Canada, so you have to ask the dealer to raise a claim with Nissan Canada on your behalf or go to Nissan Canada directly and start head-butting about this issue because it is a very clear manufacturing defect and must be covered by warranty.

I would even challenge the dealer that brushed you off when you initially turned to them to diagnose this problem and blame them for not diagnosing the fault correctly, which had resulted in greater damage to the engine.

The details of the recall that was issued by Nissan for the Altima and Sentra-V which have exactly the same engine as the xtrail (QR25DE) as follows:

*
Recall Campaign Number: NTB05-058b 

2004 NISSAN SENTRA, 2004-2005 ALTIMA; VOLUNTARY SERVICE CAMPAIGN QR25DE POWER VALVE 
Nissan has determined that on some 2004 model year Sentra and 2004-2005 model year Altima vehicles equipped with the 2.5 liter engine there is a possibility that power valve screws located in the intake manifold may become loose. If this occurs the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) may illuminate and unstable engine idling or power loss may occur. 
*


----------



## katycat (May 23, 2009)

Thanks Jalal,

It looks as if I'm going to have a battle on my hands. I will keep you posted on the progress of my case. Do you have a link for Nissan Canada, I'm afraid I'm not very good on the computer. Thanks again for your assistance.

By the way checked out your pictures, love your extrail!!!

Karan


----------



## tbk (Dec 29, 2008)

Here is the contact info from nissan canada, good luck with the engine. Keep us posted

NISSAN CANADA INC.
If you have any questions or concerns about your current Nissan, please contact:

Nissan Canada Inc.
5290 Orbitor Drive
Mississauga, ON
L4W 4Z5

Customer Service:
Telephone: 1-800-387-0122
Fax: 905-629-6553


----------



## tbk (Dec 29, 2008)

Just for reference, if you want to buy a used, non rebuilt motor, you are probably looking at about 2000cad

ENGINE MOTOR Altima Sentra 02 03 04 05 06 2.5L QR25DE:eBay Motors (item 400048738551 end time Jun-08-09 07:27:23 PDT)


----------



## markr11b (Jul 25, 2009)

when i get back from iraq im gonna install a dcsports 4 2 1 header that i ordered off the net...its waiting for me in my garage...does the same apply with the butterfly valve screws or do i not need to worry about it?


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

markr11b said:


> when i get back from iraq im gonna install a dcsports 4 2 1 header that i ordered off the net...its waiting for me in my garage...does the same apply with the butterfly valve screws or do i not need to worry about it?


Changing the headers has nothing to do with the lower intake buttefly screws, the risk still remains and you might as well remove the lower intake manifold from the back of the engine block to check these screws are still there and none of them is loose.


----------



## sauga (Sep 18, 2010)

Seems like this thread is dead!? :wtf:

Any progress since last year Karan? How about you Schesbh? :waving: I'm assuming the 2006 models are completely fine from any problems as aussietrail and Canada's Far East are not reporting on their models...Terranismo and GFB still running your engines ok? 

I enjoy my high rpms so I worry that i won't be able to fully enjoy my upcoming x-trail...:lame:


----------



## GFB (Oct 16, 2006)

Hallo Sauga

Yes, luckily I can report so far (87000km) no problems. At the time I decided to just leave it (did not inspect or add loctite). 

Regards


----------



## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

No issues with butterfly screws on x-trails...


----------



## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

ValBoo said:


> No issues with butterfly screws on x-trails...


Not in Canada and not with xtrails built from 2006-up, but it is an issue and a potential for disaster on earlier models and we had many cases in Australia already. Nissan are still refusing to admit it.


----------



## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

you are right... not in Canada.


----------



## OttawaX (Feb 2, 2005)

I haven't posted in a while but have good information on the long term reliability of a 2005 SE AWD. 1. Rear hatch repainted due to rust within 1st year (warranty) 2. Both rear wheel wells replaced due to rust (warranty) 3. Butterfly screw into 3rd cylinder (not under warranty despite protests!!) Thankfully I knew the engine was acting funny and had it at the dealership before the check engine light went on. I told them to check for that issue and they confirmed it 4. Fuel filler neck rusted and leaking (not in Canada eh!)

All in all, at 165K I've only replaced the brakes once (manual tranny) and the remaining issues are more related to the 165K than Nissan quality. 

I'm just waiting for the cat to get sucked into the engine now...


----------



## Ottawa-X (Apr 15, 2007)

My 2006 Bonavista only has 40K kms on it (!). Mainly because I have a main summer car. Still love it. Nothing wrong so far, except for a wee bit of surface rust on the driver's sill plate (salt getting under label), which I fixed.

Keep thinking I might get something new, but then I think "why?".


----------



## Cottage Life (Dec 5, 2005)

OttawaX said:


> I haven't posted in a while but have good information on the long term reliability of a 2005 SE AWD. 1. Rear hatch repainted due to rust within 1st year (warranty) 2. Both rear wheel wells replaced due to rust (warranty) 3. Butterfly screw into 3rd cylinder (not under warranty despite protests!!) Thankfully I knew the engine was acting funny and had it at the dealership before the check engine light went on. I told them to check for that issue and they confirmed it 4. Fuel filler neck rusted and leaking (not in Canada eh!)
> 
> All in all, at 165K I've only replaced the brakes once (manual tranny) and the remaining issues are more related to the 165K than Nissan quality.
> 
> I'm just waiting for the cat to get sucked into the engine now...


Hey Ottawa I have a 2005 manual Xtrail as well with 140 000 !!, just curious what they charged you for the butterfly screw repair ? I know you caught it early but still curious !!


----------



## lmac (Mar 21, 2011)

OttawaX i had the fuel filler neck issue as well, did you contact nissan Canada, when i called them they said they didn't have enough people call and complain about it for it to be a recall. i was pissed at that


----------



## warrenw (Sep 16, 2009)

I took my 2006 apart yesterday to check this. All 8 screws were fine. They some kind of lock-tight on the threads. We are the second owners of this x-trail as it was a 3 year lease return. I removed each screw and applied red lock tight on each one and replaced.

A word of caution here. While I had the intake apart, I noticed it badly varnished and there was quite a bit of residue from the PCV valve. 
So I cleaned the intake and Throttle Body with TB cleaner. X-trail has 95k kms

I had to re-learn the idle speed once all back together. there are other threads on this site that talk about it. The Service manual explains the procedure. It took me 12 attempts to get the idle correct.
A word of note. Do not touch the butter fly on the TB, or you will be in the same boat.
But it was rewarding as the X-trail has never run smother.


----------



## das3000 (Jun 16, 2006)

*2006 In Canada*

I thought I should update this thread that my 2006 X-Trail ate a butterfly screw @ 160, 000 km. It went through the engine (cylinder 2), closed the gap on the spark plug and went out the back end screwing up the catalytic system!

I was at a stop light when it happened. The rpm went down to 500rpm for a few seconds and then it stalled. It had very little power after that until I got it to the shop. The dealership wouldn't own up to a screw at all, saying that's not an issue with my year, model...

I had my mechanic look at it. Yes, cylinder was scored, but he tested compression and I was lucky and it still had good compression. He replaced the spark plug and it ran with good power.

The vehicle immediately started throwing engine codes for temperature faults on the catalytic system. I had the dealer replace it after they scoped it and it "looked fine". I actually got them to cover that under warranty!

My mechanic swore to me that it had to be a piece off the cat that came back into the engine... Nissan wouldn't comment but assured me it wasn't a valve screw!

Both Dealership and local mechanic wanted over $300 to put my mind at ease and loctite the valve screws. I read up online how it was done and just did it myself. It took me a slow 2 hours, but that was a lot of money saved!

I can confirm that ONE BUTTERFLY VALVE SCREW WAS MISSING and it had gone through the engine. What was more concerning was that only one other screw was actually still tight... 6 of the 7 screws remaining were LOOSE!

I hit them with red loctite and put it all together. My mind is at ease and I've put 60,000 km on the engine since!

PLEASE, if you have this engine... TAKE IT APART AND RED LOCTITE THE BUTTERFLY SCREWS NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS!

from a true Butterfly screw survivor.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Das thanks for the heads up. I will look into checking ours when the weather warms up? I have read elsewhere that it particularly affects the 2.5 engine that operate at high revs typically over 5,000. Its rare I ever hit that. 
Based upon your experience it seems you did not have to rebuild or replace your engine? I am curious as to where the missing butterfly screw ended up? and did you replace the missing one? In the sentra forum I note there are a number of people who have removed the butterfly screws all together, but it seems that involves sacrificing some of the low end torque of the engine


----------

