# Idle problem after head gasket replaced



## SubaruBlue200sx (Mar 21, 2004)

ok so i just completed doin my head gasket... all in all.. it wasn't too bad... just time consuming.. i got a chance to install my oil fitler relocation kit which now sits on top of the motor above the intake manifold .. so much easier. i fired the car up.. and the car won't idle right. vacuum gauge read about 10 and idles rough but when you give it gas. it revs fine..
no check engine light. any ideas on what i should check? i was told to check for any intake manfold leaks....and exhaust manifold leaks..any help would be very useful
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## 1badsuv (Oct 14, 2005)

It seems you indeed have a vacuum leak. Is there a chance you forgot-crossed a line?
Did you disconnec the intake from the head?( not really familiar with this engine, but I am with engines in general). I have an x-cam and pull 16 in at idle- 950-1000 rpms. 10 is pretty low unless you have a VERY radical camshaft. 

Now go nuts looking for it- I'll send positive vibes your way!

Good job doin the head gasket yourself, I don't know about you, but it makes me feel good when a difficult job is finished


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## SubaruBlue200sx (Mar 21, 2004)

i have found a slight exhaust leak which is to poor bolting on my part, the cams i believe are slightly off.. which could also explain the irratic idle.. at TDC the lobes on cylinder one should face outward. my intake cam is not matching my exhaust.. which explains alot. so i have to address that as well.... but i have come to notice that i am still leaking coolant in cylinder number 3..... if i run the car for a bit.. i drove it down the street and the car ran fine when in normal accelration.. nothing big.. maybe about 5 psi of boost. but when i went to check the plugs. i found that the number 3 plug again covered in coolant.... which is mind boggling becuase i just installed a new gasket.. not the older version for the ga but a newer version.. and all the head bolts were torqued down to spec. the head was checked cleaned and deck and no warpage was found....
how on earth am i still leaking coolant in cylinder number 3.. there is no other possiblitly but the head gasket that would cause this problem.. unless the cams have an affect on this as wellas the timing sicne both are probably off right now?
any suggestions please


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## 1badsuv (Oct 14, 2005)

was the head magnafluxed for cracks? Hidden ones in ports?
! more possibility, a cracked block
?
I am not familiar with the whole situation, what condition led to the head gasket. Overheat? Freeze? Boost


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## SubaruBlue200sx (Mar 21, 2004)

1badsuv said:


> was the head magnafluxed for cracks? Hidden ones in ports?
> ! more possibility, a cracked block
> ?
> I am not familiar with the whole situation, what condition led to the head gasket. Overheat? Freeze? Boost



i believe it was due to boost. the car is 11 years old.. and ran with 14psi for a year...car did get hot ..one night it hit about 260.. but i quickly turned it off head was checked cleaned tested and nothing was found to be wrong. as for the block...number 3 spark plug was coverd wit coolant.. which is common for cylinder 3 to leak. the walls and block at a glance seemed to be normal.. even cleaned them up a bit so i dunno


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Take the VC off and spark plugs out. Rotate to TDC on cylinder one on the compression stroke. Make sure the cams lobes on cylinder 1 are pointing towards the firewall on the intake and radiator on the exhaust cam. 

If that looks good count the rollers between the mating marks on the cam gears starting at the idler sprocket and continuing around (per the fsm). 

If that checks out make sure the timing is set to 10 degrees and the distributor is installed correctly. 

Did you use a torque angle meter or a torque wrench on the head bolts? I have found the torque angle meter to be a much more accurate way of torquing the head bolts. 

As for the coolant, did you clean the coolant out of cylinder 3 when you had the head off? Is the car overheating at all? Are you 100% sure there is coolant in #3 again? Even when I had a blown HG I would not have coolant on the spark plug, it would burn off. Perhaps #3 is not firing?


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## SubaruBlue200sx (Mar 21, 2004)

wes said:


> Take the VC off and spark plugs out. Rotate to TDC on cylinder one on the compression stroke. Make sure the cams lobes on cylinder 1 are pointing towards the firewall on the intake and radiator on the exhaust cam.
> 
> If that looks good count the rollers between the mating marks on the cam gears starting at the idler sprocket and continuing around (per the fsm).
> 
> ...


I will Double check the cams.. i remember when i installed the turbo cams i had to do exactly what you just said so i'll check that out.

i used a torque wrench on the head bolts. and i did clean the cylinder. the walls looked fine. i had a friend double check it since he was more knowledgable about head gaskets then i am. everything looked fine. the car isnot over heating at all.. the car ran for about 10 min. and the hottest it got was about 160. and it was about 90F outside.. the car seems to be running on 3 cylinders.. i pulled the plug out a tried to blow out any coolant htat was there.. had a friend stand over the motor wit a towel to catch it.. some coolant did come out. the car still sounded the same even wit just 3 plugs firing . the other thing that bothers me is that while reving the motor to 3k. there was a tapping noise. as soon as i heard it i killed the motor right away.

i will go over everything again, cams, etc as the FSM. i am also gonna retightin my exhuast manifold as it is leaking. and then take it from there.
just seems wierd that with a new gasket ( the newer design) i found coolant in the same clyinder. 
any other ideas or help id really appreciate it.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

SubaruBlue200sx said:


> I will Double check the cams.. i remember when i installed the turbo cams i had to do exactly what you just said so i'll check that out.
> 
> i used a torque wrench on the head bolts. and i did clean the cylinder. the walls looked fine. i had a friend double check it since he was more knowledgable about head gaskets then i am. everything looked fine. the car isnot over heating at all.. the car ran for about 10 min. and the hottest it got was about 160. and it was about 90F outside.. the car seems to be running on 3 cylinders.. i pulled the plug out a tried to blow out any coolant htat was there.. had a friend stand over the motor wit a towel to catch it.. some coolant did come out. the car still sounded the same even wit just 3 plugs firing . the other thing that bothers me is that while reving the motor to 3k. there was a tapping noise. as soon as i heard it i killed the motor right away.
> 
> ...


If it is in fact leaking again it is not because of the Head Gasket. There is a larger issue. Did you clean all surfaces with brake kleen prior to install?


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## SubaruBlue200sx (Mar 21, 2004)

the head was cleaned, pressure tested, checked for cracks and was milded. and came back great. the machine shop honeslty made the head look like new. and i was told that the head was in great condition.. i cleaned the top of the block. and it looked fine. 

one thing i didn't mention was the torque on the head bolts. i believe its supposed to be someting like 53 ft lbs.. my friend felt that for a turbo application that wasn't enough.
and he tightened the bolts to 70 ft lbs... now.. my idea here is.. is it possible that since the gasket is a stock gasket, and the head bolts are stock.. that applying that much torque could have cracked or damaged the gasket and once the motor started just made it worse?

tomorrow im goin to check the cams, timing, and im gonna do a compression test as well.. 
and see what i come up with. ive already reordered another head gasket and bolts just in case.

the only other possibility could be the block is warped ...correct?





wes said:


> If it is in fact leaking again it is not because of the Head Gasket. There is a larger issue. Did you clean all surfaces with brake kleen prior to install?


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

SubaruBlue200sx said:


> the head was cleaned, pressure tested, checked for cracks and was milded. and came back great. the machine shop honeslty made the head look like new. and i was told that the head was in great condition.. i cleaned the top of the block. and it looked fine.
> 
> one thing i didn't mention was the torque on the head bolts. i believe its supposed to be someting like 53 ft lbs.. my friend felt that for a turbo application that wasn't enough.
> and he tightened the bolts to 70 ft lbs... now.. my idea here is.. is it possible that since the gasket is a stock gasket, and the head bolts are stock.. that applying that much torque could have cracked or damaged the gasket and once the motor started just made it worse?
> ...


OMFG I read that and immediately got pissed. Your friend is a MORON. IMHO that shit is FUBARED because the bolts are over torqued. 

I say this because the head bolts are torque to yield bolts, as a result they are to be torqued precisely per the FSM as they provide the greastest clamping pressure JUST before they stretch. You my friend have stretched head bolts! 

Also did you re-use them, and if so did you measure them? They can only be re-used if they are within spec. 

Also if you re-do this, as you should, use a torque angle meter (instead of a torque wrench)and DON'T let your friend work on your car.


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## SubaruBlue200sx (Mar 21, 2004)

wes said:


> OMFG I read that and immediately got pissed. Your friend is a MORON. IMHO that shit is FUBARED because the bolts are over torqued.
> 
> I say this because the head bolts are torque to yield bolts, as a result they are to be torqued precisely per the FSM as they provide the greastest clamping pressure JUST before they stretch. You my friend have stretched head bolts!
> 
> ...



yeah trust me.. i wasn't to happy about this. see. my familyh owns a resturant so my time for workin on the car is very limited.. so my friend offered to help out.. the only difference is he used to have a turbo hatch.. and is very knowledgable with honda motor. so he took it upon himself to torque my head (wow that sounds gay) tighter like he did to his motor. i had found that out earlier today. thats why i asked if the gasket could be damaged from over tightening. 
now i know that i must redo the head by myself and i'll have better luck. so i just gotta wait for the new gasket, bolts to get here. im not reusing anything. id rather spend the cash to get parts new then take a chance at reusing. 

now wes.. knowing that the head bolts were torqued to much. is it just coincidence that cylinder 3 is leaking? or is that just a known weak spot that is prone to this.


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## SubaruBlue200sx (Mar 21, 2004)

sorry to double post .. i just wanted to add.... today i did a compression test on the motor
all 4 cylinders came to 180 ... now the fsm says it should 199.. (171 Min) 180 seems to be right in the middle. coolant is still comin from clyinder 3. one way or another the head has to come off...to make things worse today i noticed a slight crack on my turbo manifold right in the middle...not big.. but its noticable so that just dampened things a bit.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

SubaruBlue200sx said:


> sorry to double post .. i just wanted to add.... today i did a compression test on the motor
> all 4 cylinders came to 180 ... now the fsm says it should 199.. (171 Min) 180 seems to be right in the middle. coolant is still comin from clyinder 3. one way or another the head has to come off...to make things worse today i noticed a slight crack on my turbo manifold right in the middle...not big.. but its noticable so that just dampened things a bit.


Man 180 is good accross the board. #3 seems to be what goes first, but there is no reason that yours should be leaking unless the head gasket was damaged in the install.


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## SubaruBlue200sx (Mar 21, 2004)

wes said:


> Man 180 is good accross the board. #3 seems to be what goes first, but there is no reason that yours should be leaking unless the head gasket was damaged in the install.


well...i knew the gasket was bad becuase when i pulled #3 plug wire out..i could see coolant around the plug. so thats what led me to think blown head gasket.. no white smoke or anything like that.

now i know the head was torqued to 70 ft lbs. the head was cleaned, milled, and pressure tested. and was done at a very well known shop. they said the head was ok.. no warpage.
compression tests show 180 across the board. theres no white smoke from exhuast. there is no coolant in the oil pan when i first drained the oil (before the new gasket) and even now.. the oil is clean. no oil in coolant as well. there is however some coolant residue that appears actually on the inside top part of the valve cover.. around cylinder 3. that looks like drops of milk shake.. (coolant) but nothing significant. 

i have ordered a new gasket, bolts,and washers. im goin to take the head off again. clean up the block a lil. look for anything suspicious. i will PERSONALLY do this myself. im goin to torque it down as FSM specs. double checking the cams to make sure they align correctly. this is all so strange becuase the head was not warped.. even the block look fine. the only thing like you said wes. was maybe the gasket got damaged upon the install. which at that torque could be possible.. yet.. how could compression be good across the board.. and still leak?


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