# "Bolt On" Header question... 200sx SE 1.6L



## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

Ok, I am looking into getting an inexpensive header to replace my factory exhaust manifold. I think at 196,100 miles my cat may be messed up. I don't have emissions testing here so I would like to do away with it all together. My car is a '97 200sx SE 5-speed. The header I am looking at... rather the design is said to be a "Direct Bolt On" header. After looking at my manifold I can't see this being true. The header looks to have the collector under and to the rear of the engine where as the factory manifold bolts to the exhaust right under the cat at the bottom front of the engine. Has anyone else put a header like this one on their Sentra or 200sx SE 1.6L? If so, is it a bolt on or not? Did you have to modify the exhaust?


















The factory exhaust in front of the engine.


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## EvilPotato (Sep 6, 2005)

you must have a california emissions B14 cause that exahaust manifold looks like a cat converter, and you have another one under the car. The aftemarket header will replace the stock exhaust manifold AND the collector/short pipe bolted onto it just before the secondary cat converter so it should work just fine. i have a hotshot header and the dimension is like the one you have on the pic although its a different design


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

EvilPotato said:


> you must have a california emissions B14 cause that exahaust manifold looks like a cat converter, and you have another one under the car. The aftemarket header will replace the stock exhaust manifold AND the collector/short pipe bolted onto it just before the secondary cat converter so it should work just fine. i have a hotshot header and the dimension is like the one you have on the pic although its a different design



Thanks... I never even thought about California emissions... That for sure is a Catalytic converter. Maybe this pic will help determine if it is in fact a California car...


















EDIT: I just checked with Courtesy Nissan of Dallas and their diagrams show the '97 - '99 FED exhaust is the same as the '95 - '96 CAL.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

Either way the answer is right there if you look at that first pipe #20010. The header will for sure work. I hope this will help others as well. Will post pics withing the next week hopefully with the new header on the car.


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## CannibalCorpse (Oct 2, 2006)

1-piece bolt on header type (from pictures)

PROS
- excellent price (95$ up)
- noticeable power gain
CONS
- Major PITA on installation. Alternator, radiator & fan assembly, front engine support and AC compressor removal is necessary 
- secondary outlet diameter is reduced (1.75" ?)

2-piece or more Header types ( Pacesetter, OBX & Hotshot )

PROS
- No engine accessory removal is necessary on installation except for the stock exhaust 
- Noticeable power gain

CONS
- price
- additional flange gasket has a lot of stress & can leak over time if tube is not properly supported

I dont think hotshot is still on business but OBX has a similar design (230$ shipped). Pacesetter has a lower price (180$ shipped) but the wrong primaries are siamesed together(1-3,4-2) but I dont think it makes a noticeable difference on a stock engine.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

I actually got the header installed... the one I have pictured... yes it is a PITA but with a friend helping it is not so bad. Had to remove the fans and the radiator hose on the drivers side, that was it. Broke the top of the oil dipstick, the O ring part that you grab to pull it out to check your oil... no biggie, will use epoxy. Will have to make a custom EGR tube as that thing must be made out of tungsten carbide because three of us could not bend it to re-route it. Had to replace my factory original 198,800 mile upstream O2 sensor that was still working... stripped the threads pulling it out of the factory cat.

We had to squeeze the header in from the top with a little force but it went in. If anyone gets this header design and is bolting it to the factory exhaust as I did, go to Advance Auto Parts and get the *WALKER exhaust gasket part number 31360*. The flat gasket that comes with the header WILL LEAK if used on the factory cat back portion of the exhaust, This one is lead I think and sealed it perfectly.

What I did:

Installed header
New upstream O2 sensor
Walker Gasket
Re-Timed the engine as apparently I missed a notch - NOW at 10*
Yes, I feel a lighter pedal and the car pulls a lot smoother.

Will custom make a new EGR tube soon.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

CannibalCorpse said:


> 1-piece bolt on header type (from pictures)
> 
> PROS
> - excellent price (95$ up)
> ...


On the 200sx SE the removal of all items with the exception of the fans was not necessary.
The outlet at the collector is 1.5in and each individual tube has an inner diameter of 1.5in. I believe the factory exhaust is also 1.5in.


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## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

do you have any added silencer after the header? i had to modify the post and pre-cat O2 sensors due to my relocated cat so i can pass emissions. sucks to have emissions testing here.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

azkicker0027 said:


> do you have any added silencer after the header? i had to modify the post and pre-cat O2 sensors due to my relocated cat so i can pass emissions. sucks to have emissions testing here.


My exhaust for now is all factory from the header back. It looks exactly like the diagram a few post up. The header replaced the manifold and the pipe labeled 20010. The next pipe which doesn't seem to have a number on it is the pipe in front of the resonator (looks like a small muffler) and is what the header bolted directly to.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

When I do my cat back I will have to see if it is after the O2 pipe or if it replaces that too... I hope it is after and just replaces from the resonator back... that's what the pic of the exhaust looks like anyway.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

My header installed... along with my freshly painted valve cover and my new black grill... NISMO! Strut tower brace and cat-back coming soon... already have the rear upper strut brace... not installed yet.


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## Centurion (Sep 5, 2002)

Any good diff. in power?


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

Centurion said:


> Any good diff. in power?


Noticeable yes... a great difference no. The pedal takes less effort to get me up to speed, the sound difference is not that noticeable but is a little different than the stock manifold. Before the header I could take second gear to 30mph now 35mph before it feels like it hits a limiter. I don't know what are normal shift points for this car for everyone else but I know my car has some demons that I have to track down. 

I still have to do a compression check and I know my clutch needs to be replaced since it is at 195,000 miles. I don't know if we have some kind of variable valving on this engine either but with twin cams and 4 valves per cylinder I would suspect we do so I may need to look into that since this car has had head work done. Mind you, I don't have a functioning Tach. so I have no idea if I am redlining the car or hitting a fuel cutoff.

All the mechanical things I have done have done something for the better for each thing though... after the cat-back is done I will do a cold air intake... more air out means it needs more air in as well.

Update: Did my letters on the valve cover. Elmers paint pen with chisel tip "Metallic Silver" Under $2 at WallyWorld.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

Wow, I was way off... turns out there are *6* timing notches on the crank pulley and I was at 5* of timing. I decided to do some research last night as my idle just didn't feel right to me. What I uncovered was also a rich fuel smell out of the exhaust so off to Google I went. I watched a few vids on YouTube of GA16DE engines running and compared videos of what mine runs like compared to "well tuned" GA16DE's. I found some pics of actual 1997 GA16DE crank pulleys and sure enough, 6 marks on them. *-5 0 5 10 15 20**. Mine is now sitting smoothly at 11-12ish and oh my the difference.

I run 87 octane gas. Now I mentioned before my shift points... 1st gear dead on 20mph because at 21mph it felt like it hit a limiter... I took first to 25mph and it felt like it wanted to keep going and no limiter... 2nd normally I had to shift at 30-33mph... now almost dead on 40mph and again no limiter feeling. I am on to something here for sure. Should I go 15*??? I may run a tank of 93 octane with this timing and see if that does anything as well. A JWT ECU may be in my future but at almost $600 I am not sure I can justify getting it.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)




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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

Looks like I may have the reason I have not felt a "great" increase in power from my bolt-on's... My 200sx blew the head gasket three days ago. I attempted to replace it myself... not a good idea with only my own two hands, no garage and limited tools. The car is now at 42AutoSports in NC. They said they will "try" to have it done by this weekend. I was hoping I wouldn't have to shell out the "$750" worse case price the guy quoted me but you pay for what you can't do yourself. The 1.6L will be getting new head bolts... pretty sure the place I bought the car from that said they did the head gasket before, re-used the old torque to yield head bolts and that is why the gasket failed. I did notice that there is a bolt missing on the head as well... outside rear passenger side of the head... the small one near the intake. That shop sucks in a bad way. I hope this speed-shop gets me going soon.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

I was able to get some good news from the speed shop working on my head gasket. They said after they did many test they did find that the gasket failed on cylinder #1 on the metal ring that surrounds the cylinder and it was right at a water jacket. They also said that the two head bolts were so loose for cylinder #1 that they could almost back them out by hand. They inspected the head, it is still flat and true so no need to have it machined. They also said that for having now over 200,000 miles that the cylinder walls look great and my piston rings are great. They are going to replace my broken motor mount as well and make me a custom EGR tube for my header. New spark plugs are going in as well as a full gasket set for the head job. I am excited for it to be completed.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

Well, I am making progress on my 200sx. My cat-back exhaust will be here soon!!! Here is the list of mods so far to my SE!

- Front strut tower brace
- Short throw shifter
- Aluminum shifter ball
- 4-2-1 Header
- Custom EGR Tube
- Hand painted valve cover
- Spectra Air Filter
- Vortex Generators
- Timing apprx. 12*
- New front brake pads
- Sylvania zXe headlight bulbs
- 100w yellow driving lights
- Deer whistles
- Black Grill
- NISMO grill badge
- NISMO tailgate badge
- New Distributor
- Xtune Tach w/shift light
- In a few days - Cat-back exhaust


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

Got the cat-back from eBay today... will be on the car soon.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

*DO NOT BUY THIS EXHAUST UNLESS YOU HAVE A SECOND CAT ON YOUR CAR OR IT CAME WITH A SECOND CAT FACTORY*. You will need to buy a test pipe (cat delete pipe)

The back half bolts up perfectly but there is a cat length gap to the front pipe... dammit. :loser:


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

Well I got the exhaust on and had the custom extension made. I have not tried it with the silencer in the muffler... not sure I can bring myself to put it in there. Why? Because this exhaust sounds outstanding!!! I was hoping it would not sound of a typical "Ricer" or "Honda" Lawnmower like sound and it DOES NOT. I am very pleased. The listing said "mellow, deep tone throughout the RPM range" and they did not lie.

I will try to post a video clip or two with pics when I have time. I say if you dislike the loud, lawnmower, typical "Honda" like exhaust sound then jump on this exhaust. It is louder than a factory exhaust but not offensive. It has a deep tone but no constant "Flowmaster like drone" in the car. At 55mph in 5th gear I can barely hear it if at all. Take the car to redline and the exhaust sounds like it means business and without backfiring noises or crackling at high RPM's. As soon as I had the custom extension welded in and this exhaust was complete I could feel it in the gas pedal. It absolutely gained its low end torque back or freed up some power.


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## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

the placement of the pre-cat oxygen sensor bothered me a bit. i had to move the sensor behind the collector and extend the harness. i had a rich running issue when i only monitored 2 of the 4 cylinders. the rich running issue eased up after the sensor relocation. 
I'm not putting down your design and ideas, but would like to point out a possible driveability issue later on down the line.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

That is interesting... the upstream O2 sensor is only in one pipe. The original had it situated in the center, top portion of the cat. I may have to look into a possible relocation myself. Thank you for pointing that out... my exhaust does smell a bit on the rich side.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

I put my Vortex Generators back on the car... got tired of looking at them in the back seat. I used the grey, thin, double-sided 3M or Scotch brand tape, I don't remember but it's at wally world, to put them on. This stuff holds like no other and removes fairly easy with little effort. When I purchased these on eBay I got the seven VG package as apposed to the ten that they offer... I figured with the size of them, ten would look crowded. I had the angles wrong the last time they were on the car and got an extra 7 miles to the tank... possibly. Now they are on correctly so we shall see. I used a $2.50 STAEDTLER protractor to find the angles, used CM and MM to find more accurate measure. Yarn, scotch tape, a sharpie (which wipes off the clear coat easily with Windex) a ruler and some patience. 

The back of the roof, 100mm or 10cm up from the trim on the glass is 96cm wide between the indented channels where the outside VG's are. 48CM on center. From the center line in both directions I measured 16cm and marked each VG's tip location. I then measured up 10cm from the back glass trim and marked for the tip location. Viewed from the side it is an arch. I made a straight reference line from the top outside corners of the back glass trim so that I had a place from which to reference my angles. All said and done I spent no less than an hour on this. Internet information and research says 20-30min. Pffft. By the way, you can run them through a car wash with the tape used. It's outdoor strength too.


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## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

wait, what?? small fins in the rear roof section?? kinda like the rare EVO's out there??
does this really work?? i mean, really. won't you need a spoiler about the same height of the roof line to actually make a difference??


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

azkicker0027 said:


> wait, what?? small fins in the rear roof section?? kinda like the rare EVO's out there??
> does this really work?? i mean, really. won't you need a spoiler about the same height of the roof line to actually make a difference??



I am testing them yet again as we speak. I drive 100+ miles every day for work at speeds up to 60mph. The last time I tested them there was a 7 mile increase to my tank of gas but I had the angles wrong on the VG's. They are spot on now, even and at the correct angles. You don't need a tall spoiler like the EVO's and STi's out there. They do correct the airflow over the rear of the car when placed correctly. They work better with the windows up as well. I placed 6 inch pieces of orange yarn all over my back window to visually see the airflow. Before the VG's they were all over the place flopping around randomly at 55mph, windows up or down. After installing the VG's (incorrect angles) the middle section of the glass had straight yarns and the outer ones wiggled... when the windows were up they were all straight.

I don't believe everything I see on the net so I test it myself if I can. They DID make a difference in flow over the rear of the car. I also have NO clearcoat left on my spoiler. These are cheap to buy on eBay. They use VG's on airplanes, race cars, EVO's and STi's so I was ok with trying them out. If I only gain 10 miles to the tank, it was worth it for me. I like them for how they look mostly though. Any vehicle going over 40mph suffers, to a point, from aerodynamic drag. These help reduce drag, increase down force, and increase fuel economy.


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## fadam50438 (Oct 25, 2012)

How did or would you mount the end of the header to exhaust pipe? I'm curious as to whether or not I can just weld pipe right to the nipple at the end of this header?


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

fadam50438 said:


> How did or would you mount the end of the header to exhaust pipe? I'm curious as to whether or not I can just weld pipe right to the nipple at the end of this header?



In post number 6 on page one I have a link to the gasket I had to get. It was necessary because the flat gasket didn't work at all. Also the new O2 sensor. I had to make a custom EGR tube and it was not fun. Aluminum tubing and brass fittings. SAVE YOUR THREADED PLUGS that came with the header (the one in O2 socket and the EGR socket.) They are different threads and they will help if you plan to make anything custom like an EGR tube and you need to know what threads you need.

I tried to bend the old EGR Tube but could not... it is some strong metal for sure. I hope this helps. Oh, I used a ratcheting box wrench... 17mm I think to bolt the header to the factory pipe.

You can make all new pipe, you can weld to it... the cat back I got is the same material and same plating and I had it welded on no problem. It sounds good and for $178 dollars with free shipping it would probably be cheaper than having a muffler shop create a whole new exhaust from scratch. Then all you have to do is fill in (weld in or bolt in) a small section(s) of pipe. Such as the Test pipe I have for sale.


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## fadam50438 (Oct 25, 2012)

Yeah, I saw that part number, but I guess I need the actual flange on my exhaust. Seems that someone hacked the old stuff from the cat to the resonator off and put in straight pipe with welds. Wasn't sure how to connect the header, but now trying to find a flange or suitable replacement item. Not sure i want to weld to the header.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

fadam50438 said:


> Yeah, I saw that part number, but I guess I need the actual flange on my exhaust. Seems that someone hacked the old stuff from the cat to the resonator off and put in straight pipe with welds. Wasn't sure how to connect the header, but now trying to find a flange or suitable replacement item. Not sure i want to weld to the header.


Is your rear O2 sensor still there? It is in the factory pipe just after where the header will bolt to. Is this pipe gone as well? If so, you are missing an O2 senor... what year is your ride?

Pics?


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## fadam50438 (Oct 25, 2012)

Lol, after some more investigating, I do have that flange. It's right after the o2 that they patched in pipe. Couldn't see it til I got under it today when I did the muffler. It's a 99, picked up for dirt cheap, and I just want it to sound better. Starting the header tomorrow, soaking all bolts with PB Blaster overnight, and going from there. Did you use any RTV or gasket maker on the header gasket? Will try to get pics up tomorrow. Thanks for the help so far though.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

fadam50438 said:


> Lol, after some more investigating, I do have that flange. It's right after the o2 that they patched in pipe. Couldn't see it til I got under it today when I did the muffler. It's a 99, picked up for dirt cheap, and I just want it to sound better. Starting the header tomorrow, soaking all bolts with PB Blaster overnight, and going from there. Did you use any RTV or gasket maker on the header gasket? Will try to get pics up tomorrow. Thanks for the help so far though.


I did not use ANY sealers other than the gaskets that came with the cat-back exhaust... plus the Walker lead gasket at the header collector. On the head I just used the big gasket that came with the header. Mind you I was not able to get ONE bolt in the head for the header... it is very tight to get to and the head of the nut is to big. It does not leak with this not tightened down. You will know which one it is when you get to it. I put the header in from the bottom... it sucked.


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## fadam50438 (Oct 25, 2012)

Mine is leaking bad around the bottom of 2&3. Neither nut wanted to go on very easily. Ordered some new gaskets, going to try them out because mine really doesn't fit too well, almost 1/8 off centered. Got the donut, that's in, and mine slid in from the top. Everything came apart really easy, kind of unbelievable. But definitely a PITA to get those bottom studs nutted up.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

fadam50438 said:


> Mine is leaking bad around the bottom of 2&3. Neither nut wanted to go on very easily. Ordered some new gaskets, going to try them out because mine really doesn't fit too well, almost 1/8 off centered. Got the donut, that's in, and mine slid in from the top. Everything came apart really easy, kind of unbelievable. But definitely a PITA to get those bottom studs nutted up.


PICS!!!! LOL


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## fadam50438 (Oct 25, 2012)

Well, got it in, leaks a bit around the collector flange, needs new bolts there. Had to replace the gasket with a felpro factory set. The bottom nut on #3 will not tighten down, but its not leaking there, so that's nice. This is definitely not a simple task to perform, but all in all went ok. Sounds killer!


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

fadam50438 said:


> Well, got it in, leaks a bit around the collector flange, needs new bolts there. Had to replace the gasket with a felpro factory set. The bottom nut on #3 will not tighten down, but its not leaking there, so that's nice. This is definitely not a simple task to perform, but all in all went ok. Sounds killer!


That's great to hear


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## reeseman1981 (Dec 11, 2011)

I use the same header on my 84 sentra with the ga16de swap and it was a nightmare. The pipe going under the engine rested on the oil pan and would have leaked on the head but got that fixed with a sawsall and a welder. I did 2 1/4 all the way back with a magnaflow muffler it sounds good and has some better throttle response and I Average 35-37 mpg now


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## fadam50438 (Oct 25, 2012)

After a week of driving on it, I have to say I am rather impressed with the feel now, seems like it opens up a little more, with better throttle response. The flange at the end of the header is tweaked a bit, so having trouble getting it bolted to the stock pipes, but I'm re-piping it tomorrow from the second O2 to the end. Doing 2 inch, to keep the sound and power good. Getting the gasket to seal up at the head was also a nightmare, was leaking a little bit until I tightened up the nuts again, now it seems ok. I'm running without a cat or EGR system, but with no emissions testing here I'll be ok.


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## thxone (Feb 7, 2012)

My muffler is breaking in... its getting louder.


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## mindbullet (Oct 15, 2007)

I know this is an old threadbut I have some questions regarding header installation. I have a 99 Sentra GXE 5spd manual. It looks as if my front catalytic converter is bad. I can replce it for about $300 or replace with headers for less. I am definitely thinking of switching to headers. My big concern is with the O2 sensors and engine management after the swap. After putting the headers on is there anything I need to do to keep it from throwing codes? Will it run rich/lean? Any other adjustments or mods necessary for the engine to run well after adding the headers?


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## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

well, you will need to relocate your catalytic converter downstream, underneath the car. you'll also have to relocate the oxygen sensors to properly read ALL the exhaust gases and AFTER the catalytic to prevent excessive fuel consumption and the SES warning for emissions testing purposes. the header replacement does sound cheap, but also factor in the other items you'll need to buy along with this mod.


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