# Looking for advice on track tires....



## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

posting it here since it has more to do with suspension and brakes than most posts in this forum...


anyway, I've been using Toyo RA-1 for the last year on the car.. they handle great, but don't last worth shit on my car.. two DE weekends and they're gone.
I just chew the outside shoulders off under heavy cornering, even with the tires at 55+psi cold. and -4 camber (EEEK!!)
you can see the carnage here...
http://mattblehm.com/pics/track_pics/hallett/sept_04/188 12.jpg
high res version: (2mb)


I obviously can't afford $1000 every track weekend, so I need something that will last longer, but still handle well..

most of my events are road courses, but I also Auto X regularly as well.. my preference is for a tire that's adequate at auto X but does great on the track..

At this point, my thoughts are Azenis Sport, Toyo T1S, and Kumho MX... I'm leaning toward the MX because I've heard the Azenis get greasy when they get hot, and the MX just stick better. and I run tires HOT due to my hard driving..
I know the T1S are good tires as well, I but can't directly compare any of those tires together based upon my experiences..

Anyone have any input?


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Correct me if I am wrong but the tyre you are running now has a 40 treadwear.

What size rim are you running, better yet what size tyre do you want?


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

Given your situation, your real Max performance options are the: Azenis; MX; S-03; AVS SPort; G Force T/A KD.

I would go for R compound rubber if you drive that hard...you will probably be dissapointed with max perf. Michelin Pilot Sport Cup has an 80 treadwear and is well rated. Track guys also talk highly of the Avon Tech R and some Hoosiers mind you they are butter.

Now, if out of immaculate possibility your track wheels accomidate a 235/45R17 tyre, then I would get the Yokohama A046 which is the OE equipment for the Lancer Evo 8. 140 treadwear but well documented for track usage is quite a blend.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

NickZac said:


> Now, if out of immaculate possibility your track wheels accomidate a 235/45R17 tyre, then I would get the Yokohama A046 which is the OE equipment for the Lancer Evo 8. 140 treadwear but well documented for track usage is quite a blend.


Aren't the A046's pretty soft as well though? I've seen instances where people have shredded them in under an hour's worth of track driving (given that all of those instances were on very hot days).


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

The 40 treadwear is the reason I'm getting away from these.. they just don't last long enough. going to hoosiers or something else of that nature would be an even bigger mistake. 

I would rather lose those couple of seconds per lap if I can take my tire bill from $1000 per weekend to $1000 per season. that still hurts, but when you're at track events 2-3 weekends out of every month through the summer, then you can see my situation.

that requirement pretty much leaves R comps out all together...


My current track tire size is 235/40/17, but I can fit anything from a 235/40/17 to a 245/45/17. I could care less about the speedo since these are dedicated track tires. I also save 3lb per tire going with the 40 series over the 45 series, in either 235 or 245 widths. that also means a slightly shorter sidewall, so a fractional amount of increased torque to the ground. always helps when I'm running away from Vipers and Vettes.


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> Aren't the A046's pretty soft as well though? I've seen instances where people have shredded them in under an hour's worth of track driving (given that all of those instances were on very hot days).


They wear fast but they perform...its a big reason the Evo is so highly rated.

I guess since no R compound, the MX may be the best choice as a lot of track guys prefer it over the Azenis

The cheapest priced R compond I know of is the Dunlops. The best wearing is the Sport Cup with an 80.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

the new Azenis 615 are supposed to be teh shizzle.......


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

chimmike said:


> the new Azenis 615 are supposed to be teh shizzle.......


Are they out yet? I thought they were coming out early Summer.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

The 615 aren't supposed to be out for another 3-4 months in any sizes I can use..

I'm leaning toward the MX in 245/40/17, but I'm concerned about sidewall stiffness on them.. many people have said they're pretty soft so they ride smooth, but I'm mainly concerned about chewing off the corners like I am on the RA-1....


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

from what I gather, the MX is better for drag, and the Azenis is better for the autocross/road course. I'm assuming it's due to sidewall stiffness, but I haven't actually driven an MX-shod car.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

Well I think I'm goign to find out...
A discount Tire just opened down the street and I got a $50 off coupon in the mail today.. called a few minutes ago and they're already close to tirerack's prices on them at $152 each, mounted & balanced. now I'll just see if they're up to snuff. last time I took anything to discount, I refused to ever go back- but this is a new shop and I'll make sure they know who's boss.


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## McCoy (Sep 16, 2003)

Matt93SE said:


> anyway, I've been using Toyo RA-1 for the last year on the car.. they handle great, but don't last worth shit on my car.. two DE weekends and they're gone.
> I just chew the outside shoulders off under heavy cornering, even with the tires at 55+psi cold. and -4 camber (EEEK!!)


Matt, those cold tire pressures seem really high! I know that on a heavier car you should run more pressure, but this seems extreme. I normally run 34F/32R cold, and this ends up being about 38F/34R hot once I complete a few laps. I know that your car is heavier and could require a little more air, but 55 cold seems high.

A few questions:

1) *Were you running full tread or shaved RA-1's?* The reason I ask is that a full tread R-compound tire can actually have a shorter life than a shaved tire. 

2) *what kind of toe (toe-out or toe-in) are you running?* I killed my V700's last year mainly due to a 1/4" of toe-out, I tore the tread off the inside of my tire. 

3) *Are you using a Pyrometer to check tire temps? * If you run to high of pressure, you could be heating the tires to much causing excess wear of the tires.



> At this point, my thoughts are Azenis Sport, Toyo T1S, and Kumho MX... I'm leaning toward the MX because I've heard the Azenis get greasy when they get hot, and the MX just stick better. and I run tires HOT due to my hard driving..


With a heavier car, I suggest you stay away from the MX's. I have seen a WRX kill a pair of these tires in one day on the track. These are meant more for lighter cars, S2000's and Miata owners seem to like them.

The Azenis might be something that you can daily drive and do track events, but do get greasy faster than I like. Also another point is that the price for the new Azenis is going up... closer to the cost of MX's  

I do suggest you give the Toyo's another chance. I participate in HPDE's and lapping events in my area and a majority of the Instructors and A-student drivers all sware by this tire. I will go to them eventually... currently sporting a new pair of GAC R3S03 Hoosiers for this year. Once they are done, I will be going over to the Toyo's  

Good Luck,
Monty

_All of the above is from my personal experience and is to only be taken at face value and a grain of salt._


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks for the advice, but I've checked all of those issues..

reason I was running such high pressures was to keep the sidewall flex down. If I ran normal pressures on them, the edges would roll over so bad that I was actually rolling past the tread and onto the sidewalls itself. scary stuff.

I was running zero toe and -2.5 camber up front, -1.5 camber rear, zero toe.. The back end felt great, but the fronts were always pushing through corners- part of the outer shoulder wear problem I'm sure as well.

Not using a pyrometer currently, but I did check them in the past.. temps were higher than they should have been, but I was pushing the car pretty hard trying to keep up with a friend in an M3.. outer edge temps were very high, and the insides were reasonable.. If I use more static neg camber, it wears off the inside edges of the tire very quickly.


I'm also contemplating chopping up the strut towers and adding a few degrees of caster. it's near zero right now, and I have a feeling that a few degrees of caster will help the inside tire a lot and decrease inner edge wear.
(Where's Kojima when you need him?!)


I'm basing my decision on the MX from seeing several other people use them and were happy... Of course they were all RWD cars.. E36 bmws, Z31s, and Mustangs. They're all in roughly the same weight area that I am as well, but the major difference is me being FWD.. If only I could fix that part... 

Is there another tire that you'd recommend instead of the MX, if these don't work on a heavier car like the Maxima? (FYI, it's around 3400lb with me in it.)
At this point, R comps are out, simply due to short life and price. I can't afford to throw away $350 in tires every time I accidentally lock them up and flatspot them. (I've got a couple in the garage now that would scare you..)

Again, thanks for your advice. People like you are why I still bother coming on these forums.


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

IIRC Laloosh on the VBoard has run both the MX and Azenis for autocrossing.

http://forums.thevboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=37046
http://forums.thevboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=43657
http://forums.thevboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=35782

He now has the Bridgestone RE750. Just got em so I dont think he's made a call on how they compare. As far as the Azenis are though, they are a VERY heavy tyre. IIRC in some 17 inch sizes they are upwards of 30 lbs.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

I like the Azenis out of those choices and I have owned/autocrossed/raced all three. The Azenis MAY get greasy but they are still predictable at the limit. The ONLY way I preferred the T1S' was in wet weather/standing water, other than the the Azenis rock for the $$$.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

Hmmm... the last thing I need is predictable... since nothing else in my car is! 

The local Discount made me a damn good deal on the MX ($125 a tire, mounted).. they're more than that from TR before shipping! :cheers:
So I'm going to see what happens with them... if I don't like them, then I just drive harder and trail brake more and wear them out faster.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Matt93SE said:


> Hmmm... the last thing I need is predictable... since nothing else in my car is!
> 
> The local Discount made me a damn good deal on the MX ($125 a tire, mounted).. they're more than that from TR before shipping! :cheers:
> So I'm going to see what happens with them... if I don't like them, then I just drive harder and trail brake more and wear them out faster.


Good answer! At that price THEY ARE disposable!


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

FYI for the future, Yokohama is releasing the ADVAN Neova AD07 relatively soon. They are Y rated, have 140 tread and supposedly the king of the kings of max performance tyres and are even supposed to be very good for the track.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

NickZac said:


> FYI for the future, Yokohama is releasing the ADVAN Neova AD07 relatively soon. They are Y rated, have 140 tread and supposedly the king of the kings of max performance tyres and are even supposed to be very good for the track.


Very nice. I was wondering when we'd get Neovas over here. I hope they come out in the sizes I want.


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