# Sticky on crappo coil over conversion kits!



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Another question that comes up daily is how are coil over conversions. The only coil over conversion kits that are any good are the ones made by Ground Control. The others such as Rickey Racer, Arospeed, E-Bay chinese, Weapon-R and the rest are crap.

They come with springs of unknown heritage and spring rate. These guys don't even know there own spring rates if you call them. All the rates are the same for all cars. Well spring rates are not universal and you cannot spec the same rates front and rear for everything. To do so can cause dangerous oversteer. There is also no provision for bearings in the upper spring seat so guess what, clunks rattles, creaks and binding steering. Whatever spec anodizing means corrsion and sezing. Mutt springs means sagging and loosing the spring rate with use, not that anyone knows the spring rates in the frist place. Spring rates are the most critical attributes when doing suspension tuning. Don't let a salesman tell you otherwise. There is no such thing as a universal spring rate!

Ground Controls use Eibach ERS racing springs with the rates determined by suspension experts tailored for your use from racer to autocrosser to street comfort. Their hardware is mil-spec hard anodized for corrosion resistance and the top hats have bearings so the steering won't bind.

Will all coilovers, don't lower your car too much, B13, 14 and 15 Sentras should not be lowered more than 1-1.5".

Mike


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

I think we need to put more emphasis on just how dangerous putting cheap coilovers on any car is. Too many people seem to be using "I'm not going to the track. It's good enough for me for my street driving" as an excuse to justify buying shitty springs or cheap coilovers. I don't want to hear of any crashes, injuries, or deaths of fellow members from sliding off the road and hitting obstacles because their suspension system was set up like crap.


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## LIUSPEED (May 29, 2002)

ReVerm said:


> I think we need to put more emphasis on just how dangerous putting cheap coilovers on any car is. Too many people seem to be using "I'm not going to the track. It's good enough for me for my street driving" as an excuse to justify buying shitty springs or cheap coilovers. I don't want to hear of any crashes, injuries, or deaths of fellow members from sliding off the road and hitting obstacles because their suspension system was set up like crap.


amen reverm or should i say reverend .. lol.. :thumbup: amen though amen !


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

ReVerm said:


> I think we need to put more emphasis on just how dangerous putting cheap coilovers on any car is. Too many people seem to be using "I'm not going to the track. It's good enough for me for my street driving" as an excuse to justify buying shitty springs or cheap coilovers. I don't want to hear of any crashes, injuries, or deaths of fellow members from sliding off the road and hitting obstacles because their suspension system was set up like crap.


Yes, it gets me pissed that many ricer companies make "universal" coilovers with unknown spring rates and the same spring rates front to rear for all models. Its insane and not responsible. Then poor uninformed people buy them....

Mike


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## Shawn (Sep 18, 2002)

Very true. R-1 Racing coilovers are also very shitty. I have them, and I have the dreaded binding steering. I hope to be upgrading soon.


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## .akai (Apr 6, 2004)

what about nismo coilovers?


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

.akai said:


> what about nismo coilovers?


Nismo does not make a universal coilover conversion kit to convert conventional shocks to coil over springs. If someone is selling this claiming that its Nismo, then its bogus. Nismo does have R-Tune coilover suspension for some models but thats not a coilover conversion.

Mike


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## B11sleeper (Oct 15, 2003)

another problem is that joe-home mechnic may not really know what a good suspension setup is anyway, so their picking parts and spring and damper rates may not be the best idea.

if you want coilovers and adjustable dampers be ready for having to learn some new stuff. perhaps messy and inconvienent, but that's why the oem R&R stuff isn't adjustable.


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## schebs240 (Apr 13, 2004)

God Bless stock suspension....


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## shift_of_legend (Jun 2, 2004)

anybody try ractives coilover kit?


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

shift_of_legend said:


> anybody try ractives coilover kit?



they are crap, hence the low price.


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## Nismo1997 (Dec 26, 2003)

I got vaos coil overs, i got them at whole sale..what about them..im not saying there good or bad


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## shift_of_legend (Jun 2, 2004)

I am curious to know how Ractive, vaos and dropzone perform. 
I think in all fairness, these crappo coilover sleeves, need to be tested with kyb agx or some other adjustable shocks.

The dropzone seems to work on hondas, especially civics.
A guy who has ractives on his honda says they feel good, just like the skunk2.
The vaos I have no clue about, them and dropzone atleast have shocks so they might can match the unknown spring rate.

Keep us posted on the vaos please.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

Nismo1997 said:


> I got vaos coil overs, i got them at whole sale..what about them..im not saying there good or bad


they're all crap.


lemme guess.......you all bought them for like 99 or less. they are CRAP.

coilovers are NOT meant to be cheap. You have to understand that. If you can't grasp it..........deal with the imminent problems.


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## Nismo1997 (Dec 26, 2003)

*ground control*

ground control are good i hear, what do u people think?


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

Nismo1997 said:


> ground control are good i hear, what do u people think?


absolutely! GCs are good coilovers. for sure.


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## shift_of_legend (Jun 2, 2004)

GC's were cheap once.


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## shift_of_legend (Jun 2, 2004)

Ractive qoutes their spring rate in N/square mm, which I don't know how to convert to lbs/ inch. In fact that's more like spring pressure.
The other flaw is that they use the same rate for ever application. Not good for Sentras/200sx' because we don't have 50/50 weight distribution.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

shift_of_legend said:


> I am curious to know how Ractive, vaos and dropzone perform.
> I think in all fairness, these crappo coilover sleeves, need to be tested with kyb agx or some other adjustable shocks.


You cannot go by feel on the street when comparing springs or dampers. Most people do not have the sensitivity to tell apart a good setup from a bad one even during aggressive street driving, and many autocrossers still find determining problems with that part of the suspension system difficult. The only way you can determine good/bad while the equipment is on the car is to first train the driver, then take him/her and the car to a skidpad. 

The problem is, despite the fact that these issues are harder to recognize as the drivers are less experienced, it is also easier to go over the limits of the suspension as the drivers get worse. This is especially true on the street, where you have to drive over gravel, debris, rain, mud, potholes, ice, and snow, all of which will instantly change the grip levels of one or more wheels. People who think their setups feel great and sporty when it's nice out suddenly find that their beloved ride is now a wreck after taking a turn at speeds that were perfectly safe with the stock suspension system.

There is another problem though, which is actually the real reason a lot of us are unwilling to touch cheap coilovers. Coil springs are by design highly stressed parts. On the street they will take more of a beating than they ever will around a nice smooth circuit. If the spring is not machined near-perfectly - that is, unless you can be sure that there are no pits, cracks, or holes in the metal is the right kind - you run the risk of it breaking. A broken spring is pretty easy to tell if you have a vague idea about how the car suspension system works. It's harsh, it's horrible, and the car will respond like crap. None of us want to risk this happening at 65mph on the highway or 90mph at the track. And I, for one, do not want to see/hear about it happening to anyone on this forum.

Does this mean that there is no way to test cheap coilovers? No. You can get your springs x-rayed for most material related problems that will cause failure from fatigue, you can build a small jig using a set of weights, two wooden blocks, a metal straightedge, and (if possible) a used damper to get a rough measure of the spring rate, and you can do a whole lot of other things to bench test the springs. But if you're going to go through that much trouble, you may as well just spend an extra few bucks and get a name backed by better quality control and a guarantee that your springs will be replaced at the first sight of a defect.

BTW: Just as a reference, Arospeed coilovers are a little over 350lbs/in all around and the set we broke had some horrible cracks in them from the factory. Dropzone coilovers are supposed to be higher, but I've never measured them.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

shift_of_legend said:


> Ractive qoutes their spring rate in N/square mm, which I don't know how to convert to lbs/ inch.


Are you sure that they weren't referring to the tensile strength of the metal? 1 N/sq mm is just a mark over 145 psi.


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## shift_of_legend (Jun 2, 2004)

ReVerm said:


> Are you sure that they weren't referring to the tensile strength of the metal? 1 N/sq mm is just a mark over 145 psi.


What you said makes perfect sense, so my assumption is you're right.



> BTW: Just as a reference, Arospeed coilovers are a little over 350lbs/in all around and the set we broke had some horrible cracks in them from the factory. Dropzone coilovers are supposed to be higher, but I've never measured them.


Damn, the spring rates are that high. That's madness, I can't even picture that for track use.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

shift_of_legend said:


> Damn, the spring rates are that high. That's madness, I can't even picture that for track use.


Haha. You should see what the Solo I and SER cup guys run.


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## shift_of_legend (Jun 2, 2004)

Ractive coilovers:

fr: 447 lbs/in. 8 kg/mm
rr: 335 lbs/in. 6 kg/mm


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

shift_of_legend said:


> Ractive coilovers:
> 
> fr: 447 lbs/in. 8 kg/mm
> rr: 335 lbs/in. 6 kg/mm


Thats way too high for any off the shelf damper. Off the shelf dampers will wear quickly and be very bouncy with those kind of spring rates.

Mike


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## shift_of_legend (Jun 2, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> Thats way too high for any off the shelf damper. Off the shelf dampers will wear quickly and be very bouncy with those kind of spring rates.
> 
> Mike


I know, I was just listing it for those who needed to know. They would need AGX's to work, but even then, the front being stiffer than the rear on our cars would induce too much understeer to be of any use anyway. Then again, the GC coilovers have stffer springs in front, so maybe I'm wrong.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

shift_of_legend said:


> They would need AGX's to work, but even then, the front being stiffer than the rear on our cars would induce too much understeer to be of any use anyway. Then again, the GC coilovers have stffer springs in front, so maybe I'm wrong.


? Even the stock springs are stiffer in the front than the rear. No worries though. It was all thought out when they did the suspension geometry.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

shift_of_legend said:


> I know, I was just listing it for those who needed to know. They would need AGX's to work, but even then, the front being stiffer than the rear on our cars would induce too much understeer to be of any use anyway. Then again, the GC coilovers have stffer springs in front, so maybe I'm wrong.


they would competly overpower AGX's, AGX's can bairly contain 325 in/bls.


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## shift_of_legend (Jun 2, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> they would competly overpower AGX's, AGX's can bairly contain 325 in/bls.


oh really, damn!

I think I'm going to get tein s. tech springs. Coilovers is way out of my league.


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## rallyNX (Dec 14, 2002)

dropzone coilovers for sentra are 450 front and 350 rear. Or so says the sticker on them. It looks like they are all made the same, but the quality control is so far off, they do a quick test and label their rates according to how they fare. Also - they are only 5" tall!!

If you want to save some money, or have already bought some cheap coilovers, you can get some eibach ers or hyperco racing springs to replace the crap that come on those kits, and still use the collars. You can find the eibachs used for a decent price. Even if you buy them new, you wil save about $100 over a ground contol setup with the cheap collars.

--Eric


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## aftershock141 (May 18, 2004)

So I shouldn't lower mine the 2.5" I wanted to with the Tein Damper kit and KYB Struts?


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

aftershock141 said:


> So I shouldn't lower mine the 2.5" I wanted to with the Tein Damper kit and KYB Struts?


not unless you want the struts to only last a couple weeks at best.


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## Driftn86 (Jan 9, 2005)

how much are grond control ones?


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## UchinaHinga (Aug 1, 2005)

You guys have JIC coilovers in the states. They have always performed great on and off the track for me.If you just want something low but not adjustable GAB makes a great set too.


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

UchinaHinga said:


> You guys have JIC coilovers in the states. They have always performed great on and off the track for me.If you just want something low but not adjustable GAB makes a great set too.


Yeah. We have a lot of great options over here. It's just that some people can't get it through their heads that they can't lower their cars with the piddling amounts they're prepared to spend.


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## NismoGa16 (Dec 8, 2005)

rallyNX said:


> dropzone coilovers for sentra are 450 front and 350 rear. Or so says the sticker on them. It looks like they are all made the same, but the quality control is so far off, they do a quick test and label their rates according to how they fare. Also - they are only 5" tall!!
> 
> If you want to save some money, or have already bought some cheap coilovers, you can get some eibach ers or hyperco racing springs to replace the crap that come on those kits, and still use the collars. You can find the eibachs used for a decent price. Even if you buy them new, you wil save about $100 over a ground contol setup with the cheap collars.
> 
> --Eric


Is that really safe ?? I would be suspect of the quality of materials they(cheapo companies) use in the collars as well as the springs. If they don't even know the spring rates, and make them the same for all cars, what makes you think they spent any more time in R$D on the rest of the components of the kit? Sounds like flirtin' with dissaster to me. If you're only going to save $100 or so, just get the GC setup. Thats what I plan to do after I've upgraded my brakes to NX2K and a few other goodies.


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

i built a set of these for $110. used GC springs and ebay collars from a friend. they look to be machined out of aluminum and the threads are like a square so i would think they are relativly strong. the collars are the same size as the GC's. i may end up useing these with a set of AGX's because my k-sports are simply too stiff for my likeing.


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## SuperSentra4203 (Dec 17, 2002)

ReVerm said:


> Haha. You should see what the Solo I and SER cup guys run.


Try daily driving a TA lowered appx 4 inches, KYB GR2 shocks and struts with 650lb/in spring rate. Close to no suspension travel, but she handles like a race car!!! I highly recommend ADJUSTABLE shocks/struts on any wehicle with stiffer springs and/or lowered. Unless you wanna feel like your driving a 'log wagon' around. :thumbup:


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## erod380182 (Jun 27, 2006)

chimmike said:


> they're all crap.
> 
> 
> lemme guess.......you all bought them for like 99 or less. they are CRAP.
> ...


what about H&R springs? i have does on my car and on my girl's car and they feel pretty good.


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