# X-Trail Engine R.I.P. 12/17/05



## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

My engine was diagnosed on Saturday as D.O.A at the local Nissan dealer. It suffered oil starvation, and the only indication I had was the "check engine oil" light flashing 1 minute before.

Right now they are doing a compression check but a new engine has already been ordered. Everything is being covered through warranty and I'm being loaned an 05 X-Trail while the work gets done.

The truck is only 2 years old and only had 22,000 kms. I did not have a stock exhaust manifold on it, so it seems failure came from the butterfly screw assembly. The dealer had monitored my truck before each 20 days thanks to it consuming an average of a 1/2 quart of oil each month. 

It'll probably be a month before I get to see the X again in running order, and I'm seriously putting thoughts towards getting rid of it or just going all out with the engine once and for all. Lots of random thoughts, just wish me luck


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Sorry to hear that Terranismo and it's never good news, especially at this time of the year where you just wanna drive out and enjoy your ride during the holidays.

But, look at this way, you'll get a new engine and your exy will be brand new again.

Did the dealer complain about any of the mods you have done before agreeing to honour the warranty claim?

If it is the cause of the butterfy screws, you would have noticed loss power prior to that.


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Jalal:

The dealer did try to weasel away when they saw the mods on the truck. But a quick "reprimand" and the mention of the word "lawyer" got them back on track. 

They didn't give me the loaner however and said that the engine would be arriving on the 27th of December. I had the truck towed back to my girlfriend's house at their expense, and parked it until the work schedule was done. 

The dealer here (there's only one) is notorious for "losing" things off of customer's cars. I have every statement they have made in writing and signed by the general manager, so I'm covering my a55 just in case.

I did notice a decrease in power as also an increasing buzzing noise coming from the engine bay while under WOT. In the back of my head I knew what it was but the truck just never gave any indication of excessive wear. I did have it serviced twice because of oil consumption, but it seems the dealer never did a complete check-up on the engine's state.

I'm in the process of trying to buy the used shortblock from them, so I can build up the engine. I'm shooting for nitrous with a progressive direct port setup (75 shot to 100). Let's see how that goes.


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## Rockford (Jan 28, 2005)

I'm really surprised that they're covering this. I would think they'd jump all over the fact that you've modded the vehicle and then say "all bets are off" when it comes to honouring the warranty on the thing. Lawyer talk or not you're running advanced timing, have an aftemarket TB, intake and exhaust. Not the most radical set-up I know, but I gotta beleive that would be enough for them to cry foul over...and maybe even be justified in doing so. 

Good for you they didn't potest too much. I'd say you're real lucky.


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## ron519098 (May 4, 2005)

Rockford said:


> I'm really surprised that they're covering this. I would think they'd jump all over the fact that you've modded the vehicle and then say "all bets are off" when it comes to honouring the warranty on the thing. Lawyer talk or not you're running advanced timing, have an aftemarket TB, intake and exhaust. Not the most radical set-up I know, but I gotta beleive that would be enough for them to cry foul over...and maybe even be justified in doing so.
> 
> Good for you they didn't potest too much. I'd say you're real lucky.


Either you've suckered them with the word "lawyer", or they're suckering you by saying they're going to carry out the work under warranty. I'd be wary of this in case they turn around and try to wriggle out of any verbal committments.


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## Rockford (Jan 28, 2005)

Well, he did say: "I have every statement they have made in writing and signed by the general manager, so I'm covering my a55 just in case."

But ya, I'm really surprised they're not fighting this one.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

That's good Terranismo.

If the cause is really the butterfly screws, they really don't have much room to complain, as this particular defect is covered by an official recall notice (in Nth America) and you can use this recall notice in your favour.

The mods you have done (all of them) can not be be attributed to cause this failure and they know that. That is why they're covering this under warranty.

I have a written record of my dealer performing the butterfly screws check on my exy, even though there was no official recall notice in Australia about this (yet).


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Guys, each and every engine mod on the X was done by the dealer. That's why they did not protest. For example (just the ones stated by Rockford):

Advanced timing: Was done through Consult II by dealer
Aftemarket TB: It is not aftermarket just a stock one bored out 6mm over stock. The throttle body was given to me by the dealer from another warrantied X for me to port.
Intake: It's an AEM CAI installed at the dealer with a C.A.R.B. plate and certificate.
Exhaust: Was done because stock exhaust canister was going to be replaced under warranty.

All other mods were done not only to increase power but also to address common faults in the QR's (and X's) design which the dealer already knew about.

Furthermore, with the new longblock they have already told me that they would install a Hondata intake manifold gasket and loctiting (or removing altogether) the butterfly screws.

Not only do the know my mods, they installed and condoned them. Also, none of the mods can cause premature oil loss or compression loss on two cylinders. The only two ccommon causes are pre-cat failure and butterfly screws. Since I had a header, option 1 was eliminated.


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## Rockford (Jan 28, 2005)

Wow, this just keeps getting better! Why a new car dealer would choose to get involved in this sort of racket is beyond me. I don't know enough about your situation, "butter fly screws", or the workings of an internal combustion engine to really say whether or not any of your mods played a part in the failure. However, any dealer owner who condones the use of aftermarket, non-nissan acessories/mods like yours by actually installing/preforming them themselves ought to have their head examined in my opinion.
The truth is there is no way you can predict how a melange of non-nissan parts is going to affect the system as a whole. Your X-Trail now sits in a state that the engineers at Nissan never intended. Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against modifications (though I still wonder why someone would put go-fast parts on something like an X-Trail) but this whole situation seems really strange to me. Maybe they just do things differently in Panama from what I'm used to up here.
Like I said before, it's good for you. I just wonder how long your dealer is going to stay in the modding biz. If you wanted them to, would they install a turbo for you, nitrous? Just curious. Where do they draw the line?


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Rockford said:


> Wow, this just keeps getting better! Why a new car dealer would choose to get involved in this sort of racket is beyond me. I don't know enough about your situation, "butter fly screws", or the workings of an internal combustion engine to really say whether or not any of your mods played a part in the failure. However, any dealer owner who condones the use of aftermarket, non-nissan acessories/mods like yours by actually installing/preforming them themselves ought to have their head examined in my opinion.
> The truth is there is no way you can predict how a melange of non-nissan parts is going to affect the system as a whole. Your X-Trail now sits in a state that the engineers at Nissan never intended. Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against modifications (though I still wonder why someone would put go-fast parts on something like an X-Trail) but this whole situation seems really strange to me. Maybe they just do things differently in Panama from what I'm used to up here.
> Like I said before, it's good for you. I just wonder how long your dealer is going to stay in the modding biz. If you wanted them to, would they install a turbo for you, nitrous? Just curious. Where do they draw the line?


Rockford:

If you do not know the workings of an internal combustion engine, or what butterfly screws are, then how can you write that my engine should not be repaired? None of my modifications are internal and only affect entry and exit of gases towards the engine. Please explain how they would cause an engine to instantaneously lose more than 4 quarts of oil.

Also, I don't know why you state that dealers cannot or should not install modifications in their premises? It is common dealer practice, even in the law-suit happy U.S. Also do you really think most Nissan or Nismo accessories are actually engineered by Nissan engineers at all? Just for your information, most Nismo U.S. parts available for the QR25DE engine were actually developed and are built by Jim Wolf Technology.

And I have already explained myself too many times as to why I have done these mods to me X-Trail to have to explain myself again.

BTW I don't appreciate you insisting that I have performed a racket. I guess anyone in their right mind would want to blow up an under 25K engine and have the dealer replace it with a new one,  and all that time not being able to use the truck you paid for.


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## SCHESBH (May 25, 2004)

*Nismo Parts / Accessories*

I was recently at my Nissan Dealer who now is carrying Nismo Performance parts. When I inquired about them, the response was that they will void your warranty. It was black and white with the dealer here in Montreal. Even though they are made from Nissan.

Stephen


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Nismo S-Tune parts will not void your warranty. R-Tune parts, however, will. It all depends on the dealer you talk to. Some dealers even sell vehicles off their showroom floor with R-Tune parts already installed.


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## Rockford (Jan 28, 2005)

"Rockford:

If you do not know the workings of an internal combustion engine, or what butterfly screws are, then how can you write that my engine should not be repaired? None of my modifications are internal and only affect entry and exit of gases towards the engine. Please explain how they would cause an engine to instantaneously lose more than 4 quarts of oil."

Doesn't matter. Ok, let me play devil's advocate here. The "car" has been modified. Period. Endy f$#ck'in story. If I buy a furnance for my house, modify its intake and exhaust side, and have a problem down the road, do you think it'll still be under warranty? No, of course not. Why? Basically, because I f$*cked with it, that's why. The fact that my mods SHOULDN'T have had anything to do with the failure makes no difference. The product that failed was altered. All bets are off. How can the manufacturer be responsible for that? Can you prove your mods had nothing to do with it? I mean really prove it? No, no one could. But you know what? It doesn't matter. That's why most people wait until their warranty has expired before modding their cars.
As to me explaining how this would cause that, I can't. Again though, it's moot. To be blunt, THE CAR'S BEEN ALTERED. YOU'VE F$*cked WITH IT. 
What's saved you as far as I can tell is that in this case the dealer is the one that effed with it.
I don't know why you're getting pissed. I'll say it one more time: It's good for you. What do I care?

"Also, I don't know why you state that dealers cannot or should not install modifications in their premises? It is common dealer practice, even in the law-suit happy U.S. Also do you really think most Nissan or Nismo accessories are actually engineered by Nissan engineers at all? Just for your information, most Nismo U.S. parts available for the QR25DE engine were actually developed and are built by Jim Wolf Technology."

I didn't sate that they "cannot". What I said was I couldn't understand why they would bother. It's not common here (Canada) - at all. When you start talking Nismo parts, ya the line gets a little blurry. But your TB was bored out (not by Jim Wolf I assume), your intake is an AEM, and your header is SSA. I'm just reading from your own sig here.
What if your urethane motor mounts caused more vibration than Nissan allowed for? What if your knock sensor was faulty and you've been knocking all along? Think that might cause damage? What then? I'm not saying that happened, I'm just playing dievil's advocate again. How can Nissan be expected to cover this. Again, truth is you have no way of knowing how your mods will react with the X-Trail. On the surface maybe, but you can't say for sure your mods had nothing to do with the failure. I personally doubt they did but it would be real easy for me to argue Nissan's case...if they had not preformed the work themsleves that is. Fools.

"And I have already explained myself too many times as to why I have done these mods to me X-Trail to have to explain myself again."

Then I'm not the first to comment on it. Probably won't be the last either.

"BTW I don't appreciate you insisting that I have performed a racket. I guess anyone in their right mind would want to blow up an under 25K engine and have the dealer replace it with a new one,  and all that time not being able to use the truck you paid for."

I never insisted anything. And by the way, my use of the word "racket" was never meant to be derrogatory.

From dictionary.com:
RACKET 
1) A loud distressing noise. See Synonyms at noise. 
2)A dishonest business or practice, especially one that obtains money through fraud or extortion. 
3)
a)An easy, profitable means of livelihood. 
b)Slang. A business or occupation. 

3b was the connotation I was going for in case you're wondering.


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Rockford said:


> Doesn't matter. Ok, let me play devil's advocate here. The "car" has been modified. Period. Endy f$#ck'in story. If I buy a furnance for my house, modify its intake and exhaust side, and have a problem down the road, do you think it'll still be under warranty? No, of course not. Why? Basically, because I f$*cked with it, that's why. The fact that my mods SHOULDN'T have had anything to do with the failure makes no difference. The product that failed was altered. All bets are off. How can the manufacturer be responsible for that? Can you prove your mods had nothing to do with it? I mean really prove it? No, no one could. But you know what? It doesn't matter. That's why most people wait until their warranty has expired before modding their cars.


Please refer to the United States Magnuson Act. After you read it you'll notice the following:

C.A.R.B. certification proves that a part will not interfere with the normal function of the vehicle and will not alter its characteristics adversely.

To deny coverage, a vehicle manufacturer has to prove that vehicle modification was responsable for a warranty claim.

BTW most people do not wait until after the warranty expires to modify their vehicle. Just as an example, go to your local Scion dealer (I don't know if they are present in Canada), and see how much mods each new car buyer attaches to their vehicle. And don't tell me they are only aesthetics. 



Rockford said:


> As to me explaining how this would cause that, I can't. Again though, it's moot. To be blunt, THE CAR'S BEEN ALTERED. YOU'VE F$*cked WITH IT.
> What's saved you as far as I can tell is that in this case the dealer is the one that effed with it.
> I don't know why you're getting pissed. I'll say it one more time: It's good for you. What do I care?


If you don't care, can't explain what happenned, don't know what a butterfly screw is, or how an internal combustion engine works the why in Christ's name are you arguing? The only one I see cursing in sentences is you. So cool your jets, and if you don't know squat, just keep out of the argument.

I'm pretty much pissed that my 24K engine blew to read someone's ignorant post about how it was my fault and how I am trying to screw my dealer over. 



Rockford said:


> I didn't sate that they "cannot". What I said was I couldn't understand why they would bother. It's not common here (Canada) - at all. When you start talking Nismo parts, ya the line gets a little blurry. But your TB was bored out (not by Jim Wolf I assume), your intake is an AEM, and your header is SSA. I'm just reading from your own sig here.
> What if your urethane motor mounts caused more vibration than Nissan allowed for? What if your knock sensor was faulty and you've been knocking all along? Think that might cause damage? What then? I'm not saying that happened, I'm just playing dievil's advocate again. How can Nissan be expected to cover this. Again, truth is you have no way of knowing how your mods will react with the X-Trail. On the surface maybe, but you can't say for sure your mods had nothing to do with the failure. I personally doubt they did but it would be real easy for me to argue Nissan's case...if they had not preformed the work themsleves that is. Fools.


Again, read above: Nissan has to prove that the mods had anything to do with engine failure. And I do have a way of knowing what will, and what will not kill my engine: it's called the internet and service TSB's.

Do you really think the QR engine is exclusive to the X-Trail? It's been in use for years in other Nissan models. each and every mod I have are being used in hundreds of Spec-V's over on B15sentra.net and the VBoard. I still have yet to see a butterfly screw get knocked loose by an aftermarket intake or even a header.

You still haven't told me how you deduce that my mods can actually cause 4 quarts of oil to magically disappear. Oh right, you can't. Nissan could, and they determined it to be a manufacturer fault, not mine. End of discussion.



Rockford said:


> I never insisted anything. And by the way, my use of the word "racket" was never meant to be derrogatory.
> 
> From dictionary.com:
> RACKET
> ...


We're both adults here, and I sure did not fail reading comprehension. Using you past furnace analogy, lets say this:

You install said furnace in your house. Winter came and it didn't generate enough heat, even after you contractor (certified by the furnace manufacturer) changed all the ducts to increase the amount of hot air going into your bedroom. You call the manufacturer and he finds that the furnace's radiator was clogged. They change it under warranty. You then go on the internet, to a furnace website and post your experience.

Now do you really expect or would like someone to call out racket, or say that the furnace damage was your fault since you increased the ducting? I think not.


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

Woa!!! this is getting interesting...

any keyboards broken yet guys?


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## Rockford (Jan 28, 2005)

Valboo: I hear ya. And why am I holding this handbasket?  

Anyway, this will be my last post to this thread. Before things go completely to hell.

Terranismo:

I don't consider this to be an argument. I prefer the word "debate". Semantics? Perhaps. Why debate the issue? I think it's worthwhile to be critical of things and each other. And before anyone gets their nose out of joint, I don't mean "critical" in a bad way. Actually, that's probably the single most important lesson I learned in school: to be critical. Don't be afraid to question conventional wisdom. It's a good way to both learn and teach. Call me crazy, but I thought the internet was about exchanging ideas. You don't have to like or argree with everything someone "says" online.

"If you don't care, can't explain what happenned, don't know what a butterfly screw is, or how an internal combustion engine works the why in Christ's name are you arguing? The only one I see cursing in sentences is you." 

Hmmm, I'm the only one cursing, and "why in Christ's name" am I arguing? Now, I'm no holy roller but that's rich. I think, technically, you may have just cursed there my friend. Ironic eh?

"I'm pretty much pissed that my 24K engine blew to read someone's ignorant post about how it was my fault and how I am trying to screw my dealer over."

Of course you're pissed but I never said it was your fault or that you were trying to screw the dealer. No offense, but maybe you DO need a refresher in comprehension. Re-read everything I've said. No where do I say either of those things. In fact, here are some of my words own words (not ones you've put in my mouth): "...but you can't say for sure your mods had nothing to do with the failure. *I personally doubt they did* but it would be real easy for me to argue Nissan's case..." 
If anything, I think the dealership is messed up, not you.

"You still haven't told me how you deduce that my mods can actually cause 4 quarts of oil to magically disappear. Oh right, you can't. Nissan could, and they determined it to be a manufacturer fault, not mine. End of discussion."

Continuation of discussion: I DID mention something about your knock sensor possibly not sensing. What if it was faulty in some way or installed incorrectly and you've been pinging for ages? No, you're right, THAT couldn't cause damage could it? Especially if you're running advanced timing and wailing on the "car" at the drag strip. Can you say 100% that that sensor was doing what it should? Just playing devil's advocate again.
And the urethane motor mounts/vibration issue I raised before. Can you say 100% that you know how this affects the system as a whole? I'm not saying this happened but you have to admit, these ARE possibilities. You can't just discount something because it doesn't help your argument. 

I've never heard of the Magnuson Act before today. I'm in Canada, you're in Panama. I don't see what the relevance of this US law to either of us. But I looked it up any way. The only one I found started off with: "MAGNUSON-STEVENS FISHERY CONSERVATION AND MANAGEMENT ACT". Is this the one you meant? All it seemed to talk about was fishing rights and limits.
Is Panama somehow bound to US Law? Seriously, I have no idea. That would be weird though because X-Trails aren't supposed to be avaialable in the US. A subject for a whole other thread maybe. 

Nope, no Scions in Canada. 

Anyway, enjoy your new engine. Like I said, this is my last post to this thread. I wonder though, just for _arguement's_ sake, if you offered to pay your dealer to install a CARB-approved turbo kit on this new engine, would they do it for you? I suspect they'd shy away this time. And if they did, it might mean that they believed the engine they just replaced was damaged by the aftermarket goodies they already did install, right? 
Try it, and see what they say.


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Rockford said:


> Anyway, this will be my last post to this thread. Before things go completely to hell.
> 
> Terranismo:
> 
> I don't consider this to be an argument. I prefer the word "debate". Semantics? Perhaps. Why debate the issue? I think it's worthwhile to be critical of things and each other. And before anyone gets their nose out of joint, I don't mean "critical" in a bad way. Actually, that's probably the single most important lesson I learned in school: to be critical. Don't be afraid to question conventional wisdom. It's a good way to both learn and teach. Call me crazy, but I thought the internet was about exchanging ideas. You don't have to like or argree with everything someone "says" online.


The only person who read a "debate" here was you. I simply stated what had happenned to my truck and how it was going to be fixed. The problem here was that you went overboard in criticism and like you have written, tried to be "devil's advocate." Guess what, not even my dealer who is in charge of warranty on my engine, posed as many questions and theories as you did. Maybe the reason is because they had already diagnosed that the engine's problems had nothing to do with user error or modification. If a certified Nissan technician stated in writing that I had not caused engine failure in my X-Trail, I fail to see what kind of "point" you are trying to debate here.



Rockford said:


> Hmmm, I'm the only one cursing, and "why in Christ's name" am I arguing? Now, I'm no holy roller but that's rich. I think, technically, you may have just cursed there my friend. Ironic eh?


Not at all. If I used that expression it can technically only be tied in as taking the lord's name in vane. Since I am a deist, do not believe in Christ, and did not damn his name the how was I cursing. 



Rockford said:


> Of course you're pissed but I never said it was your fault or that you were trying to screw the dealer. No offense, but maybe you DO need a refresher in comprehension. Re-read everything I've said. No where do I say either of those things. In fact, here are some of my words own words (not ones you've put in my mouth): "...but you can't say for sure your mods had nothing to do with the failure. *I personally doubt they did* but it would be real easy for me to argue Nissan's case..."
> If anything, I think the dealership is messed up, not you.


If it was never my fault then why did you even feel the need to bring this point up. Like I wrote before, you were just arguing for the sake of it. 



Rockford said:


> Continuation of discussion: I DID mention something about your knock sensor possibly not sensing. What if it was faulty in some way or installed incorrectly and you've been pinging for ages? No, you're right, THAT couldn't cause damage could it? Especially if you're running advanced timing and wailing on the "car" at the drag strip. Can you say 100% that that sensor was doing what it should? Just playing devil's advocate again.
> And the urethane motor mounts/vibration issue I raised before. Can you say 100% that you know how this affects the system as a whole? I'm not saying this happened but you have to admit, these ARE possibilities. You can't just discount something because it doesn't help your argument.


The knock sensor retards and advances timing on a 5 degree radius. When it is disconnected, timing stays permanently in the range you selected through the Consult II. In my case I had it in +3 BTDC which causes the truck to run leaner. However, I always use 95 octane gas plus NOS octane booster. Even without a knock sensor, if the truck was suffering from detonation it still would have pinged and would have let off other tell tale signs (smoke by tailpipe for example).

As for the drag strip theory, it has only seen a track two times in its whole life. The first was a year ago, while the following one was in September of this year. Both times the truck was taken for maintenance before and after it had run. A big difference is that this truck is permanently pampered, not wailed on like you think. A truck with two years of ownership with only 24K kilometers and that is maintained at the dealer before and after drag runs, is not being pummelled.

The only urethane mount I have is for the front engine mount. The rest from ES do not fit. Engine vibration is the same as stock, since it still rocks on all four body mounts like before. 



Rockford said:


> I've never heard of the Magnuson Act before today. I'm in Canada, you're in Panama. I don't see what the relevance of this US law to either of us. But I looked it up any way. The only one I found started off with: "MAGNUSON-STEVENS FISHERY CONSERVATION AND MANAGEMENT ACT". Is this the one you meant? All it seemed to talk about was fishing rights and limits.
> Is Panama somehow bound to US Law? Seriously, I have no idea. That would be weird though because X-Trails aren't supposed to be avaialable in the US. A subject for a whole other thread maybe.


Believe it or not, the Panamenian legal system is in many parts a direct carbon copy of the U.S. juditial system. This has to do with 20th century history in which I will not go into detail here.



Rockford said:


> Anyway, enjoy your new engine. Like I said, this is my last post to this thread. I wonder though, just for _arguement's_ sake, if you offered to pay your dealer to install a CARB-approved turbo kit on this new engine, would they do it for you? I suspect they'd shy away this time. And if they did, it might mean that they believed the engine they just replaced was damaged by the aftermarket goodies they already did install, right?
> Try it, and see what they say.


You fail to see the point. All modifications I have done to the X-Trail's engine are of peripheral or external devices. This is the main reason I still have a warranty. Using a turbo kit per se is not a bolt on affair as you still have pick apart the engine for installation (for oil lines for example). Each and every part I have can be taken off the car and it can be put back to stock.


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## driftking (Aug 7, 2005)

Rockford, why are you arguing so much? it's logical that if something falls inside of the engine it will break something, and if:

Engine is consuming oil
Engine has low power
Butterfly screws are missing

Then, I Guess that BUTTERFLY screws are the only cause, and even if I had replaced the pistons of my engine with a racing ones, and the butterfly screws fu*ed my engine, I would deman nissan a new engine.


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Hey Driftking you're hardly on msn anymore, what gives?


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## wasabi4ever (Aug 27, 2005)

*butterfly screw*

Hey guys, i've seen you guys talk about this butterfly screw for awhile. Are they on all 2005 Xtrail model ?
Is that mean mine is also at risk ?
Regarding my last complaint about engine vibration, I took someone's advice on getting the K&N air filter (i believe its ausietrail) but the vibration still there.
I booked for my first oilchange at 6000k but i missed the appointment because i completely forgot that day... now my car is at 6400km I hope its gonna be ok. I can't get it done until tuesday is the earliest because all Nissan closed for holiday.
How do I know if my xtrail have this "butterfly" defect ?

Thanks


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

This applies to all QR20DE and QR25DE powered X-Trails:

The intake manifold has a part called the intake butterfly valves. Their is one valve per cylinder and they control the flow of air towards the engine head. Each valve is held in place by two screws. Over time, these screws become loose and often find their way into the engine's head. From there they travel towards the cylinders, and are eventually disposed through either by heat or through the exhaust. 

Symptoms include rattling, increased oil consumption, and loss of power. In the screws path in your engine it will scratch everything in its path, such as cylinder walls, pistons, etc.


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## driftking (Aug 7, 2005)

Terranismo said:


> Hey Driftking you're hardly on msn anymore, what gives?


Hehe...I've been kind of busy with my career in the university (medicine). I'll try to get online a bit more now that im on vacations :thumbup:


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

wasabi4ever said:


> Hey guys, i've seen you guys talk about this butterfly screw for awhile. Are they on all 2005 Xtrail model ?
> Is that mean mine is also at risk ?


What you have has nothing to do with the the loose butterfly screws taled about here.



> Regarding my last complaint about engine vibration, I took someone's advice on getting the K&N air filter (i believe its ausietrail) but the vibration still there.


Depends what you call "engine vibration"  if you're looking at the boonet and it's shaking a little bit when at the lights and in gear, then this is normal. The K&N will help reduce that a bit but wont eleminate it totally.


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## driftking (Aug 7, 2005)

aussietrail said:


> What you have has nothing to do with the the loose butterfly screws taled about here.
> 
> 
> 
> Depends what you call "engine vibration"  if you're looking at the boonet and it's shaking a little bit when at the lights and in gear, then this is normal. The K&N will help reduce that a bit but wont eleminate it totally.


the funny thing is that I bought the x-trail because it was so smooth when it was new....lol..

i'll get rid of it some of these days, rattles/squeaks/vibrations are driving me mad:s


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

driftking said:


> the funny thing is that I bought the x-trail because it was so smooth when it was new....lol..
> 
> i'll get rid of it some of these days, rattles/squeaks/vibrations are driving me mad:s


Show me a car that is perfect  

I'm pretty happy with mine after 3 years of ownership, on and off road driving, that matters like minor rattles wont change my view about this car at all.

Nissan sure did make a winning formula with the exy, but they also need to listen to what current owners are saying to avoid those minor imperfections to surface in their future models.


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## wasabi4ever (Aug 27, 2005)

Thanks Ausietrail again for your support.

Yes it is the engine vibration as you described only at the lights.
But here is the thing, my sister bought her car almost the same time I did, her is a 2005 Corolla S 1.8L, her car is smooth and there is no vibration at all when you're inside the vehicle. SO i figured probably because my car have a bigger engine, but my dad also got a 2005 Sienna LE with a 3.3L engine with absolutely no engine noise or vibration when inside the veh.
With my xtrail i can feel the steering wheel and the brake pedal vibrate at the stop lights. But i guess right now it just going through a phase, strange things may happen and will dissappeared after time.
My dad told me his Sienna was acting like that before but now its fine.
 

Last question, how do i know which engine type is my x-trail ?
QR20DE or QR25DE ?
:newbie:


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

It's the 165hp QR25DE version.


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

*btfy screws....*

About the butterfly screws:
I found this info on another board with nice pictures...unfortunately the instructions are in French

http://www.npclub.com/bb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17539 


Terranismo: Was it confirmed on inspection? did you have one of those butterfly screws missing?

I am just curious since the recall does not affect the X-Trail, and perhaps my thinking of the X-Trail being made in Japan would only be a false sense of security...
(I know I could do it myself but I would want my dealer to inspect this at my next visit... so far they they have refused to do it.)


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

It is so confirmed that I'm getting a new engine on Tuesday  Needless to say, the first thing I'm going to do is have the butterfly screws loctited.

BTW Valboo, the X-Trails QR engine is as faulty as the mexican ones. They also suffer from pre-cat failure, clogged throttle bodies, and faulty MAFs.


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## driftking (Aug 7, 2005)

aussietrail said:


> Show me a car that is perfect
> 
> I'm pretty happy with mine after 3 years of ownership, on and off road driving, that matters like minor rattles wont change my view about this car at all.
> 
> Nissan sure did make a winning formula with the exy, but they also need to listen to what current owners are saying to avoid those minor imperfections to surface in their future models.


Jalal...I didnt try to bag the x-trail, since I do like it a lot. But MINE is a rattly piece of crap...

It's jsut that everytime I track a rattle a new one resurfaces. And after my warranty expired this has been the more realiable car i've ever driven, I dont know if it was the dealer that broke things or what, but it hasnt broke anything and I cant figure out what other car can take the kind of abuse that I give to mine  .

But as I say, there are alot of rattles in the trunk of the vehicle, aaah I hate them SO MUCH, RATTLES SUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!.

Terranismo, how is the new engine going? and do you have any TSB for the Xz regarding rattles??


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## manuelga (Dec 14, 2003)

Terranismo said:


> It is so confirmed that I'm getting a new engine on Tuesday  Needless to say, the first thing I'm going to do is have the butterfly screws loctited.
> 
> BTW Valboo, the X-Trails QR engine is as faulty as the mexican ones. They also suffer from pre-cat failure, clogged throttle bodies, and faulty MAFs.



Congrats for the new engine, please post the history of the missing screws at NissanMexico, it will help many people (including me) to take care of them

& Yes, Mex QR25's (at B15's) also suffer for the same things as Japanese QR's, I've no idea about Altimas, please Terranismo, if you know something about Smyrna's QR's post.


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## wasabi4ever (Aug 27, 2005)

I took in my XT today regarding the vibration, and asked them if it because of the butterfly screws defect. The guy told me, he never heard of such thing from nissan vehicles. This is the guy working for Nissan dealership in Edmonton.


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## XTrail1 (Feb 24, 2005)

My dealer acknowledged that Sentra's have a recall/campaign, the ones they have taken apart so far are all tight. He said that this applies to a series/production of 2.5 engines and not all of them. Therefore we should not panic, when I was working in the business I remember that all our TSB's had a starting and ending vin as well as a production date range. Anytime something is discovered, naturally mods are immediately applied to future productions. For those who have reported engine vibrations, remember that running the heater, defogger, heated seats, lights all at the same time puts a big load on the alternator, try it with and without.


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## driftking (Aug 7, 2005)

XTrail1 said:


> My dealer acknowledged that Sentra's have a recall/campaign, the ones they have taken apart so far are all tight. He said that this applies to a series/production of 2.5 engines and not all of them. Therefore we should not panic, when I was working in the business I remember that all our TSB's had a starting and ending vin as well as a production date range. Anytime something is discovered, naturally mods are immediately applied to future productions. For those who have reported engine vibrations, remember that running the heater, defogger, heated seats, lights all at the same time puts a big load on the alternator, try it with and without.


Since I live in the caribbean (Dominican Republic) you can guess that I dont have a seat heater, I dont use the defogger, and even in the day I get the same awful vibration...

And, The butterfly screws thing, all QR25DE vehicles I know off (including 02/03/04/05 altima/sentra and x-trails have this problem).


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

wasabi4ever: Take your truck to a new dealer, that guy sure does not know what he is talking about.

My new engine has been in for two days already, and immediatley I felt an increase in power over the older one. Nissan replaced the complete longblock with no questions asked. This is not the first time my dealer has had to deal with faulty X-Trail engines by cat or butterfly screw problems. Both problems are present in Series II X-Trails as well.

driftking: My whole rear luggage bay inner plastic cladding was changed under warranty. In other words, all of my inner trunk is brand new. This was because of squeaks and rattles. I still have one underneath the rear cargo floor and some new ones that have shown up in the front tweeter location.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

*Butterfly Screws Official Recall*

Hi Guys,

Sorry about the previous post which was in Noel's name, as I was using his computer 

Am sure someone has previously posted the link to the official nissan recall for the QR25DE engine for the Sentras and Altimas, but HERE it is again.

I have contacted Nissan Australia with this recall information in hand and convinced them to perform this check on my exy free of charge, so they have instructed my dealer to perform this recall inspection exactly as it was written in this recall notice.

The car stayed with them over night and no loose screws were found.

If you're concerned about your exy having this problem, maybe you can try approaching the head office in your country with this info and try to convince them that it DOES apply to the exy too and it DID happen to current xtrail owners.

I know about 2 cases in Australia where the loose butterfly screws was a cause of the problem and in both cases Nissan replaced the engine. Terranismo is now number 3 that I know of.


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

Thanks Jalal,

Will try this approach with my dealer


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

This is a snippet of "Ask Sarah"'s column this month:

*I have a 05 2.5S Altima. I hear noise like rattling or knocking from the engine from the beginning. Now the mileage is 22k and the noise is getting louder. I took the car to the Nissan service center and they said nothing was wrong with the engine. Could you tell me what I can do? 

Shumon*










_You are probably hearing the flutter of butterflys. Improperly torqued butterfly screws have been known to have loosened and be ingested by the engine wreaking havoc. This was more common in the earlier QR25’s but I personally know of a few QR25’s and even one VQ35 that has consumed a screw or more. Take it to a different dealership. The sound will only get louder and eventually you’ll be towing it to the dealership for a swap. This isn’t a problem that can be diagnosed by running the codes so many dealerships are reluctant to work on an issue until it materializes to a problem. _


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## Sean King (Jan 12, 2006)

aussietrail said:


> That's good Terranismo.
> 
> If the cause is really the butterfly screws, they really don't have much room to complain, as this particular defect is covered by an official recall notice (in Nth America) and you can use this recall notice in your favour.
> 
> ...


Ok I'm new to this so bare with me.
What is these butterfly screws that you are on about and where are they located so that I can get my mechanic to look at it.What are we supposed to be looking for as the defect?
I have a SUV that is I bought used 2001 Model and so far knock on wood I have had to change a few sensors and a head gasket due to a sticking thermostat.Anything else I don't have a clue about.


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## Sean King (Jan 12, 2006)

Ok I get you and know exactly where they are located.Thanks for the heads up guys. :cheers:


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Just a little update:

I had my alternator and battery replaced under warranty by my dealer last week. It seems that when they installed the new longblock, the mechanic shredded the alternator wires that rin alongside the engine head. This caused it to short out and kill my battery.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Terranismo said:


> Just a little update:
> 
> I had my alternator and battery replaced under warranty by my dealer last week. It seems that when they installed the new longblock, the mechanic shredded the alternator wires that rin alongside the engine head. This caused it to short out and kill my battery.


Mate, is there anything left un-touched or not replaced in your exy? LOL

It would have been cheaper for them to give you a new exy to start with. hehehe


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## driftking (Aug 7, 2005)

aussietrail said:


> Mate, is there anything left un-touched or not replaced in your exy? LOL
> 
> It would have been cheaper for them to give you a new exy to start with. hehehe


Hehe...

Well Jalal.

I had my engine replaced, my exhaust manifold replaced, my rear mufler replaced, my rear diff replaced, my rear shocks/bushings replaced, my front brakes replaced, front calipers replaced, wheel bearings replaced, throttle body replaced, some welds on the chasis because It had cracks in the front and the rear, etc.

After they applied all TSB'S

It has been nice after that, excelent, except for engien vibrations and rattles :thumbdwn:


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

driftking said:


> Hehe...
> except for engien vibrations and rattles :thumbdwn:


Since they have been looking after you so well, ask for a new body and engine mounts. HaHaHa :thumbup:


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

I wouldn't mind of they had given me a new X Jalal :fluffy:


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## bas (Oct 12, 2005)

I have just joined the short list of xtrails affected by loose butterfly screws. Car is currently in the shop, minus the engine after the number 1 valve screws came loose and dropped into the chamber. Vehicle not under warranty, but putting together my case for a claim as we speak. 58,000km and Sep 2003 model - Australian Ti model.


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## Xtrailguy (Mar 9, 2006)

A lot of early model SpecVs had this problem with the butterfly screws. Nissan didn't put enough locktite on them.


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Brett I answered your PMs. LMK if you need any further info.


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## bas (Oct 12, 2005)

Just for the information of other guys who haven't experience this catastrophic problem, here are a few pics to keep you on your toes and wondering what is really going on 
under the bonnet.


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