# components and rear speakers



## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

I am looking for some components and rear speakers for my 03 Durango. I will be using a kicker 300.4 to run these. I wanted Kodas but I cant afford them. I listen to mostly rap. My son will watch tv mostly on these speakers. Heres my setup currently alpine 9833, kicker 1200.1, 2 12L7 Alpine flip down monitor, farenheit visor monitor and movies 2 go dvd player. I turn my subs off when my son is in the car so I need good mid bass. What speakers willsound good in a audio/video setup budget 250-400


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## funkpacket (Feb 13, 2004)

you can get some seriously good audio for a budget like that. cdt's, dynaudio, focal, diamond audio, seas...just to name a few. I dont know what size speaker emplacements you have, but im going to assume your dealing with 6.5's. Diamond Comps and diamond coaxials seem to be a decent deal within your price range. If you do a search in the audio forum I believe there is a guy from island audio who will match most deals on cdts. You mentioned the kodaa, and it seems the cdts and diamonds hold thier own against them. Good luck


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

Good to hear that the cdts and diamonds hold up against the kodas but cheaper. I was thinking about cdts but havent heard any personally. There is a shop around here that sells diamond that way I can listen to them then but them off the net for cheaper


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

Isnt Ed speakers rebadged CDTS but cheaper. The diamond they compare to Kodas aint the 329 set is it I would like to stay around the 230 mark for components


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

Alright I went and looked at the diamonds not the exact same set as in the link. The aluminum tweeter was a little too harsh for my liking. One of the salesman had some 5" 4" and tweeter 3 way components in his car I will admit diamond has nice stuff. What about the silk tweeters. Any other suggestions? I am also going to lok into MB quart. Thanks for the replys


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## funkpacket (Feb 13, 2004)

as far as metalized vs silk tweeters goes, im more a fan of silk domes. The crystal component set i have seems a little less shrill with the silks than with the titaniums. As far as the elementals are concerned: yes the drivers are the same as found in the cdts, but the crossover networks are a little different if i remember correctly. If you have a dealer near you that sells image dynamics you may want to check ou the id chameleons too.


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

Alright thanks Ill look into the IDs


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## UnKnOwN @uDiO (May 15, 2005)

scrappy said:


> Isnt Ed speakers rebadged CDTS but cheaper. The diamond they compare to Kodas aint the 329 set is it I would like to stay around the 230 mark for components


if i remember correctly they are built at the same build factory and just have a diff name stamped in the cone... but cant remem for 100% sure


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

Somebody an car aio forums recommended the DLS comps nad speakers. Does anyone know if these are any good. Thay look nice and have a silk tweeter


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## UnKnOwN @uDiO (May 15, 2005)

youve accualy named a speaker that i havnt heard, or even heard of for that matter... have you checked into the RE series comps by www.reaudio.com ?

they are quite affordable and are rather nice, but if your looking for something like CDT's then you prob wouldnt be interested... you get what you pay for when your paying for CDT's


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

UnKnOwN @uDiO said:


> youve accualy named a speaker that i havnt heard, or even heard of for that matter...


DLS would walk all over RE, unless you're talking about midbass performance with the XXX set, but the XXX set isn't out yet and when it does come out it will be $500+, so it's a non-issue.


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## UnKnOwN @uDiO (May 15, 2005)

last i heard from david the XxX set was due to be released @ SEMA this year, so they should be out but they are crazy expensive


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

Wel I ordered the DLS components and coaxils.They should be here on Friday so I will see Iwent with the ur6 set The guy I ordered from was really cool and he said that I would be very impressed with these speakers I will see soon. I will post a reveiw when I get these. Sr20demon what do yoyu think about these speakers since you seem to know so many brands


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

UnKnOwN @uDiO said:


> last i heard from david the XxX set was due to be released @ SEMA this year, so they should be out but they are crazy expensive


The xxx mids have been out for a few months but the full component set isn't due for at least another 6 months, actually that would put them out right around SEMA so you might have heard right. Either way that's not until November, so it's still a ways off.

scrappy - I've never heard that model but they're supposed to be very nice. Scott Buwalda (the [I believe] current SQ world champion) uses the DLS Iridiums, which are just one model up from the UR series. They're praised pretty highly over at ECA, which is normally a pretty good resource for reviews and recommendations.


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

They do seem to be praised pretty highly on caraudioforums too. ECA is elite car audio correct the guy I bought these from told me to go there and research them Ill probally sign up there too. I actually got the ur6s series right in between the iridium and ur6 just a different material the mid is made out of


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

DLS is very nice quality stuff. I am running 2 of thier Ultimate A3 amps. Well built stuff, here is a pic for you to decide on. Those Europeans really know how to build great gear. FYI the A3 is rated at 150x2 in 4 ohms, but bridged will put out over 1200 watts of clean power @ 1ohm. It just so happens I am selling one of them in order to buy a US Amps TU600.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Man the amp layout of the DLS reminds me of the Soundstream reference stuff from back in the day. 

At any rate components are subjective and I recommend you listen to as many setups as you can. Keeping in mind what amps you are using. WHile I have not owned many of the "newer" brands I have experience with Cliff Designs (now CDT), MB Quart, Canton, ADS, FOcal, and Dynaudio. MY two main preferences were Canton (can be hard to find) and Dynaudio. While I like the Focals I found that you had to step up to the Utopia Tweets to get perfromance that I was happy with. As a result I wound up with Dynaudio's and honestly they suited my tastes very well. If you are on more of a budget I'd recommend trying to find a set of Canton's to audition as for the $$$ they are very well rounded speakers.


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

CDT Audio was NOT nor ever was Clif Designs. Here ya go:

www.cdtaudio.com
http://www.clifdesigns.com/INDEX4.html


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## Twiz (Aug 24, 2004)

Azgrower said:


> DLS is very nice quality stuff. I am running 2 of thier Ultimate A3 amps. Well built stuff, here is a pic for you to decide on. Those Europeans really know how to build great gear. FYI the A3 is rated at 150x2 in 4 ohms, but bridged will put out over 1200 watts of clean power @ 1ohm. It just so happens I am selling one of them in order to buy a US Amps TU600.



Where are the MOSFETs ? All I see in your picture is one power IC (lower left in your picture) as a final output. They put those in stereos they sell for 50 bucks. Even those have one power IC for each channel. What do the fuses on the side of your amp say ? 5 amps ?


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

The amp has 4x30 amp fuses, so you do the math on the output since you seem to be an all knowing smart ass. Btw, and your amp of choice is? Have you ever heard one of these amps yet?


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## Twiz (Aug 24, 2004)

Dude, there's no need to get angry... I'm just saying they forgot to include the power output stage when they built this amp... It just doesn't look like something that'd put out 1200 W . Unless they have mounted the power transistors under the circuit board. Does the amp get warm at all ? My amp of choice would be Crossfire VR600.. I'd grab one for each channel.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

Twiz said:


> Dude, there's no need to get angry... I'm just saying they forgot to include the power output stage when they built this amp... It just doesn't look like something that'd put out 1200 W . Unless they have mounted the power transistors under the circuit board. Does the amp get warm at all ? My amp of choice would be Crossfire VR600.. I'd grab one for each channel.


Read some reviews, you'll see that it does the power. If you just go to their site they have links to reviews done in magazines with test results showing they go above and beyond their rating. I don't know where the output transistors are on that amp, but they've got to be there, perhaps they're under the circuit board mounted directly to the bulk of the heatsink?


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## Twiz (Aug 24, 2004)

sr20dem0n said:


> Read some reviews, you'll see that it does the power. If you just go to their site they have links to reviews done in magazines with test results showing they go above and beyond their rating. I don't know where the output transistors are on that amp, but they've got to be there, perhaps they're under the circuit board mounted directly to the bulk of the heatsink?


I'm sorry and I appologize to Azgrower.

Perhaps scrappy can have his thread back ?


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

I wasnt getting angry, and there is no need to apologize to me. You just came off as a co(ky person in the way you voiced your thread. This amp has been part of many top winner spots the past few years, both here in the finals and in the European world finals. 

N E Who, back to the original thread...let us know how you like those DLS speakers when you get them installed.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Azgrower said:


> CDT Audio was NOT nor ever was Clif Designs. Here ya go:
> 
> www.cdtaudio.com
> http://www.clifdesigns.com/INDEX4.html



HMMM I could have sworn that Cliff Design was CDT or hag a part in that company. With that said who DID CLiff Designs become before they re-emerged?


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

Well thanks for jacking my thread guys  was wondering about their amps and subs though. How much for the amp are you asking just out of curiosity. Do youknow anything about their subs. I will let you guys know my review and ill post pics to


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

scrappy said:


> Well thanks for jacking my thread guys  was wondering about their amps and subs though. How much for the amp are you asking just out of curiosity. Do youknow anything about their subs. I will let you guys know my review and ill post pics to


I dont want to whore up your thread anymore, but my amp is listed in the Classifieds section. If you have any questions, just PM me


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Azgrower said:


> CDT Audio was NOT nor ever was Clif Designs. Here ya go:
> 
> www.cdtaudio.com
> http://www.clifdesigns.com/INDEX4.html


I was just browsing those sites as it was driving me crazy as to who Clif Designs became (before the re-emerged), those tweets and the new front stage CDT stuff looks aweful similar to the Clif Designs product, tweets appear to be the same.


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

The thing to remember is that most companies will outsource their parts, so its a very good possibility that they outsource their build parts from the same place. If you take a look at the new SoundSplinter RLI 8" sub, you will notice that it looks an aweful lot like the Resonant Engineering XXX series subs. Also if you look at Avionixx amps and the Elemental Designs amps, they have similar heatsink designs (and so does Tsunami for that matter.) Going back to CDT Audio, their new "07" series tweets look identical (down to the T/S Parameters) of the Vifa tweets. Its hard to determine if they were or are the same company.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Azgrower said:


> The thing to remember is that most companies will outsource their parts, so its a very good possibility that they outsource their build parts from the same place. If you take a look at the new SoundSplinter RLI 8" sub, you will notice that it looks an aweful lot like the Resonant Engineering XXX series subs. Also if you look at Avionixx amps and the Elemental Designs amps, they have similar heatsink designs (and so does Tsunami for that matter.) Going back to CDT Audio, their new "07" series tweets look identical (down to the T/S Parameters) of the Vifa tweets. Its hard to determine if they were or are the same company.


I understand this, heck Dynaudio supplies many home audio manufacturers with their drivers.... Anyway nice choice of components in your truck, when I got out of car audio I got in to home audio and have Dynaudio home speakers.


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

you guys jacked my thread again.  The only downfall for these comps and coax I got was I went over my price range I was going to get the up6 but dls has them on back orderfor a few weeks. I probally could have got the kodas but they dont have a coax to match. Someone recommended to stay with the same tweeter for the entertainment aspect and I agree it would be best so I went dls. I should have these installed within a week. What do you guys think of running 0 gauge to my 1200.1 and leaving the 4 gauge I already have run in for my mids amp. So no distru block tell me what you think


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

scrappy said:


> you guys jacked my thread again.  The only downfall for these comps and coax I got was I went over my price range I was going to get the up6 but dls has them on back orderfor a few weeks. I probally could have got the kodas but they dont have a coax to match. Someone recommended to stay with the same tweeter for the entertainment aspect and I agree it would be best so I went dls. I should have these installed within a week. What do you guys think of running 0 gauge to my 1200.1 and leaving the 4 gauge I already have run in for my mids amp. So no distru block tell me what you think


HAHA yeah we did. Anyway are you talking about matching speakers for the rear? If so are you doing a surround setup? Otherwise I am not a huge fan of rear fill unless you are trying to appease your rear passengers. In fact I competed for years without any rear fill.... Obviously this is different if you have screens and DVD's/Games in the back.

As far as the 0 Gauge I would run the 0 gauge and use a block, two large power wires just increases your chance for inducted noise...


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## pete? (Jul 6, 2004)

Granted my system is nothing to even shake a stick at, but i noticed when i had my sub in and i turned my rears off it was a much clearer sound, not muddy. if your going to have rear passengers now and then i would say just find a cheaper set of speakers that will match the watt out put of the others. when your by your self or with one other person just turn them off. this way you have alittle more cash to spend on another area of your car.

just a thought.


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

Yes I am talking about matching rear coaxials. I have two screens and a dvd player so I must have rear speakers plus with a truck so big I need the rear speakers for my son to hear the music when it is on. So no I dont want to hear the no rear speaker arguement. Remember it is not a little car like a sentra. The dls speakers will be here todaqy so I got what I wanted, Ive read just as many good reveiws about these I have kodas


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

scrappy said:


> Yes I am talking about matching rear coaxials. I have two screens and a dvd player so I must have rear speakers plus with a truck so big I need the rear speakers for my son to hear the music when it is on. So no I dont want to hear the no rear speaker arguement. Remember it is not a little car like a sentra. The dls speakers will be here todaqy so I got what I wanted, Ive read just as many good reveiws about these I have kodas[/QUOTE.
> 
> Not trying to argue. just offering suggestions. WHich is why I said what I said about having screens and such. SOunds like you made the right move, let us know how you like them!


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

I know youre not trying to argue I was more saying that to pete. I know you know what youre talking about wes. Why do you think that two power wires is more prone to inverted noise? I thought I read someone on her had a 0 & 4 running in there car but I could be mistaken


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

I have a 0 and a 4

It might be more prone to noise than a single power run, not sure how, but I don't have any noise so it doesn't really matter. The only reason I have mine that way is because I started with a single 4awg for an amp, then when I added a second amp that 4awg wasn't enough so I just ran a second 4awg for the 2nd amp (one power wire for each, no distro). Then later I got even more power and I felt that a pair of 4awg wasn't enough, so I took out one of them and replaced it with a 0awg run, so now the 4awg and 0awg run into a fused distro, and then the old 4awg that I took out got cut up and I used it to go between the fused distro and each of the amps.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

sr20dem0n said:


> I have a 0 and a 4
> 
> It might be more prone to noise than a single power run, not sure how, but I don't have any noise so it doesn't really matter. The only reason I have mine that way is because I started with a single 4awg for an amp, then when I added a second amp that 4awg wasn't enough so I just ran a second 4awg for the 2nd amp (one power wire for each, no distro). Then later I got even more power and I felt that a pair of 4awg wasn't enough, so I took out one of them and replaced it with a 0awg run, so now the 4awg and 0awg run into a fused distro, and then the old 4awg that I took out got cut up and I used it to go between the fused distro and each of the amps.


I agree in that it is situation dependant. Granted it is a mathematical certainty that the more power wires you have the greater the potential for noise, but provided they are installed correctly and you have good grounding points then it could be a non-issue. I was just thinking that in his case if a 0 gauge would support his amp loads then why not save time and money by running one wire.


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

I have always found it the safest thing to do was to run the larger sized gauge from the battery to a FUSED block, then the next size down in gauge to your multiple amps. This way you can have all the lines fused for safety purposes. Also, if you are into asthetics, then a nicely built amp rack along with the distro block is much nicer and neater than a few huge wires running under the seats.

Hey Wes, since you are into HT, tell me what you think about my recent (4 mos ago) purchase of some Athena Technologies Audition AFS2 floor speakers and Audition series surrounds and center channels. The receiver is an Onkyo THX 6.1 unit. BTW... my father just retired and one of his first purchases was a set of Bang & Olufsen speakers for his 48" Plasma TV.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

wes said:


> I was just thinking that in his case if a 0 gauge would support his amp loads then why not save time and money by running one wire.


definitely, no point in running 2 power wires when 1 will suffice


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## scrappy (Jun 30, 2002)

Well I was just trying to save money on the distru block.. I already have the 4 and I am upgrading to 0 so I figured why buy a block when I can just keepthe 4 and run a new 0. The amp rack I have is underneath a cargo space that way if I want to take out my box it looks stock and I can use all the cargo room I had initially. It looks like evryone says to go 0 to the distru and the 2 or 4 to the amps. Ill see what happens


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Azgrower said:


> I have always found it the safest thing to do was to run the larger sized gauge from the battery to a FUSED block, then the next size down in gauge to your multiple amps. This way you can have all the lines fused for safety purposes. Also, if you are into asthetics, then a nicely built amp rack along with the distro block is much nicer and neater than a few huge wires running under the seats.
> 
> Hey Wes, since you are into HT, tell me what you think about my recent (4 mos ago) purchase of some Athena Technologies Audition AFS2 floor speakers and Audition series surrounds and center channels. The receiver is an Onkyo THX 6.1 unit. BTW... my father just retired and one of his first purchases was a set of Bang & Olufsen speakers for his 48" Plasma TV.


I think they are decent speakers for the $$$ and the receiver should suit them well. Do you still think your car sounds better than your house? One of my starteling realizations was that as nice as my old car setup was it couldn't hold a candle to the home setup. 

I actually have an Integra Receiver that I am using as a pre-pro, it is basically a high end Onkyo. Whats funny is that once you get into high end home audio using a receiver is like using a head unit to power speakers. I mean there is a very large difference between seperates and a receiver.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

ever used a pro amp before?

I had heard that they sound as good as the nice home amps, but you get a lot more power for the money. I was looking at the Crown CE line to power a set of DIY towers, the amount of power you can get for the price is ridiculous.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

sr20dem0n said:


> ever used a pro amp before?
> 
> I had heard that they sound as good as the nice home amps, but you get a lot more power for the money. I was looking at the Crown CE line to power a set of DIY towers, the amount of power you can get for the price is ridiculous.


I have heard a Crown amp powering a sub, but never full range speakers. Had lots of power thats for sure and the specs are sweet on them. 

I have Bryston Amplification and absolutely love it.


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## Azgrower (Oct 1, 2004)

The thing I always like to remember about how good a system sounds(be it home or auto) is this breakdown: 75% installation, 25% equipment. In my living room, if the imaging is off a bit, it takes me to about 5 minutes to get off of my lazy ass and move the speakers a bit until its perfect. In my car it takes 5 days to get it right. Also, in home theater systems, you have much larger room spaces to work with, allowing the waves to really disperse and fill the room. Unless you drive a Chevy Suburban, most autos dont have that luxury. Thats why I think in most cases a home system will outshine a car system everytime.

I have been thinking about getting a home theater amp, so prolly around Xmas. What are some brands to look for with moderate pricing?


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

Azgrower said:


> The thing I always like to remember about how good a system sounds(be it home or auto) is this breakdown: 75% installation, 25% equipment. In my living room, if the imaging is off a bit, it takes me to about 5 minutes to get off of my lazy ass and move the speakers a bit until its perfect. In my car it takes 5 days to get it right. Also, in home theater systems, you have much larger room spaces to work with, allowing the waves to really disperse and fill the room. Unless you drive a Chevy Suburban, most autos dont have that luxury. Thats why I think in most cases a home system will outshine a car system everytime.
> 
> I have been thinking about getting a home theater amp, so prolly around Xmas. What are some brands to look for with moderate pricing?


Your absolutely right. But even with about 100 hous of kick panel fabrication and alignment with dynaudio drivers and McIntosh amplification in the car it still was decent in comparison to a properly done home audio setup. What was shocking for me is that I went way overboard in the car before I ever considered home audio. 

Honestly for decently priced home amps I would look at Rotel and Outlaw Audio. CHeck out www.audiogon.com and you will find high end used gear at GREAT PRICES! Their site is awesome and it is easy to figure out who you can trust!


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## captain_shrapnel (Sep 10, 2004)

sr20dem0n said:


> ever used a pro amp before?
> 
> I had heard that they sound as good as the nice home amps, but you get a lot more power for the money. I was looking at the Crown CE line to power a set of DIY towers, the amount of power you can get for the price is ridiculous.


I use a QSC 1500mx driving my home subs and a Crown PowerTech 1.0 driving the top end. The glorious thing about using colossal amplification is that the specs which are reasonable at full power become incredible at 1/3- 1/2 power. THD, IMD, S/N... all get better as power output is reduced. The brute force approach is not elegant, but it gets the job done.


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## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

captain_shrapnel said:


> I use a QSC 1500mx driving my home subs and a Crown PowerTech 1.0 driving the top end. The glorious thing about using colossal amplification is that the specs which are reasonable at full power become incredible at 1/3- 1/2 power. THD, IMD, S/N... all get better as power output is reduced. The brute force approach is not elegant, but it gets the job done.


Hey headroom is headroom! My only issue is my power hungry Dynaudio speakers. I have a Bryston 4BST that does about 500 x 2 at 4 ohms to my Dynaudio Contour 1.3 MKII which are bookshelves... They love every ounce and would probably not bark at more power...

I am most likely going to be building an infinite baffle sub setup when my home theater is finished and plan on using a crown amp for it. 

Man this thread is seriously jacked, perhaps we should start a home audio chat post...


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## wickedsr20 (Aug 8, 2002)

Azgrower said:


> I have been thinking about getting a home theater amp, so prolly around Xmas. What are some brands to look for with moderate pricing?


Another brand of amps you may want to give an audition to is Anthem. They make some very sweet pre-pros and amps for the budget minded. They have an amp (the MCA 50) that just sounds great for not too much money at all. I would love to step up to one of their pre-pro and amp combos even though my room is not large by any means. Rotel makes some impressive products including a very nice receiver (the 1063) and some beefy power amps. Definitely worth a listen.


wes said:


> I actually have an Integra Receiver that I am using as a pre-pro, it is basically a high end Onkyo. Whats funny is that once you get into high end home audio using a receiver is like using a head unit to power speakers. I mean there is a very large difference between seperates and a receiver.


Very very true. My receiver is "rated" for 120 x 5 @ 8 ohms, but when I added a less powerful Carver amp to the set-up, not only did the imaging and separation increase dramatically, but it flat out killed in terms of overall usable volume level. You run out of room(space) before you run out of volume.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

captain_shrapnel said:


> I use a QSC 1500mx driving my home subs and a Crown PowerTech 1.0 driving the top end. The glorious thing about using colossal amplification is that the specs which are reasonable at full power become incredible at 1/3- 1/2 power. THD, IMD, S/N... all get better as power output is reduced. The brute force approach is not elegant, but it gets the job done.


That's what I was thinking....and man can you get some power. I was looking at getting a CE-1000 for the tweets, and 3 CE-2000's for the midranges, midbasses, and sub. All in all it would be around 300x2 on the tweets, 400x2 on the midranges, 660x2 on the midbasses, and 2000x1 on the sub. God I can't wait to get this running....prices aren't too bad either. Around $670 in drivers per tower, plus wood, glue, paint, etc should bring it to around $15-1600 for the pair of towers, then around $2k for the amplification and processors. When I get around to it add the sub and amp for a bit more, and that should be it.

DIY is definitely where it's at, I can't imagine how much it would cost to get a prefab stereo of that calibur. My current setup only cost around $600 total and it beats basically every prefab setup under $2000 that I've heard.


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## captain_shrapnel (Sep 10, 2004)

sr20dem0n said:


> That's what I was thinking....and man can you get some power. I was looking at getting a CE-1000 for the tweets, and 3 CE-2000's for the midranges, midbasses, and sub. All in all it would be around 300x2 on the tweets, 400x2 on the midranges, 660x2 on the midbasses, and 2000x1 on the sub. God I can't wait to get this running....prices aren't too bad either. Around $670 in drivers per tower, plus wood, glue, paint, etc should bring it to around $15-1600 for the pair of towers, then around $2k for the amplification and processors. When I get around to it add the sub and amp for a bit more, and that should be it.
> 
> DIY is definitely where it's at, I can't imagine how much it would cost to get a prefab stereo of that calibur. My current setup only cost around $600 total and it beats basically every prefab setup under $2000 that I've heard.


What are you using for a preamp/receiver? When I was designing this set up, I couldn't find a decent non-powered receiver so I wound up getting a Behringer 16 channel mixer. Definitely nice, but no remote control. You are gonna love pro amps... no hidden specs, clipping indicators, balanced inputs, and huge amounts of power! Not to mention, they are tough as hell! I have had mine for 12 years now and except for occasional pot cleaning, they are still rolling strong.


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## sr20dem0n (Mar 19, 2003)

For now I'll just be using the preouts on my Pioneer receiver (that's what's actually powering them now). Once I build up a little more cash I was hoping to find a nice used B&K reference 30.


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