# just a thought



## Terran200sx (Dec 30, 2004)

What if you got an electric motor that was rated around 7hp and hooked it to a small AC compressor, then you put your condensor inside your air charge so you have AC cooling your intake charge. It seems like a good idea because 1. Air to Air IC's are not as effcient as liquid to AIR IC's. 2. You wouldn't need a huge amount of tubing = less pressure loss. 3.The effciency would be way up because you'd be cooling the air far below ambient temp.

Comments please.


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## captain_shrapnel (Sep 10, 2004)

The current draw for an electrical motor powerful enough to drive an ac would require a few batteries and an huge alternator. And tons of fab work. Right now there is no good way to use an ac to cool the intake charge enough to overcome the negatives it causes.


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## Terran200sx (Dec 30, 2004)

how bought just a standard belt driver AC, would the HP increase be worth the hp draw?


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## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

> 1. Air to Air IC's are not as effcient as liquid to AIR IC's.


Says who? Surface area, delta T and coefficient of heat of the exchanger material. That's all you have to play with.

Air/water actually takes TWO exchangers, so you're saddled with weight, packaging and more complication. You have a temporary thermal inertia to play just as you start boosting, but once you're caught up, you're back to the disadvantages.


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## Joel (Jun 11, 2003)

Terran200sx said:


> how bought just a standard belt driver AC, would the HP increase be worth the hp draw?


No, the HP gained would be less than the HP loss used to drive the compressor.

An O2, H2O or Nitrous fogger system for the intercooler is a better option.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

why would you come up with something so complicated that still used a belt to drive something, and then the AC? Cool air only helps to a certain extent. If you've got frigid air (30 or below) going in the engine while ambients are in the 70s, it's not going to be as helpful as you think.

btw, anything with any electric motor is gonna drain far too much energy to be useful in any way.


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## Terran200sx (Dec 30, 2004)

chimmike said:


> btw, anything with any electric motor is gonna drain far too much energy to be useful in any way.



What about electric fans or electric waterpumps?


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

don't be dumb, you know exactly what I mean.


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## Terran200sx (Dec 30, 2004)

actually, i don't, it seemed to me that if they could drive fans or waterpumps they should be able to drive small AC compressors.


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## dundee (May 11, 2002)

ideal gas law

PV = nRT

P = Pressure (hold constant)

V = Volume (hold constant)

R = ideal gas constant

T = Temp in Kelvin ( Celisus + 273 ) (our input variable) )

n = moles of gas ( out output variable )

n1 / n2 = our gain solve equations to this form


n1 / n2 = [(P1V1) / (R1T1)] / [(P2V2) / (R2T2)]

n1 / n2 = (P1V1R2T2) / (R1T1P2V2)

Cancel constants

n1 / n2 = T2 / T1

gain = n1 / n2

T1 = (273 + dt) new temp where dt is change is temp in C

T2 = (273 + 0) starting temp

gain = (273) / (273 + dt)

have fun!


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## dundee (May 11, 2002)

So the gain in gas is proportional to the gain in oxygen which is proportional to gain the in power from combustion. This is assuming the temp change after flowing through the hot throttle body, intake manifold and cylinder head. This also assumes no airflow restriction from the cooling device and the cooling device does not consume any power itself. That answer your question?


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## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

> actually, i don't, it seemed to me that if they could drive fans or waterpumps they should be able to drive small AC compressors.


It already dives an air compressor...the one in your air conditioner. Trouble is, thermodynamics has shown rather conclusively that there's not such thing as a free lunch. It takes power to drive that compressor. It takes power to haul that compressor around. It takes more radiator to shed the extra heat generated from the extra power and extra load. Bottom line is you'll see a small, temporary gain before you run into that thermodynamic barrier.

If you're going to use the belt to drive a compressor, skip the small middle-man and engineer a mechanical supercharger. That introduces a whole 'nuther can o' worms, but you get a better complexity/power gain ratio.


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## Petrovich (May 13, 2005)

IIRC Ford Lightning uses this chargecooling mixture that gets cooled by the A/C over time, and when you hit the gas, it starts flowing and WHAM! ice-cold air in your intake, at quite a few PSI, too. Not sure on the details but it works. I guess one could rig a peltier element to gradually cool down a "charge" while you're driving around, and when you need some extra push, you flip a switch, and it starts taking chargecooling mixture out of the "supercold" tank instead of the regular one, giving you 20-30 extra hp with proper tuning(for 10 seconds or so, usually all you need to whoop some serious arse  ). That is, of course, if you have a chargecooler to begin with, otherwise it's a pointless discussion.


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## MrFurious (Oct 30, 2005)

Or you could use some tubing, split your A/C air flow. Like take the the air that usually goes to the floor and run it to your intake. That way you still would get air in the car and in the intake. 

Here is an idea though. You can take one section of the intake piping. Replace it with metal piping that has a metal shell. Another word it would have 2 layers with a little seperation imbetween the layers. Then circulate liquid nitrogen imbetween the layers. Or put water in the shell and with one drop of Liq/Nit it would freeze the water. Now the air that passes through the piping would become freezing cold when it passes through it.








Now dont steal my idea. I plan on getting some guys on it ASAP. :banana:


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