# '97 KA24E Timing Chain Guide Question



## nyagh (Apr 26, 2010)

Hi all! First post to the forum... 

I have a 1997 HB XE 4x4 pickup with 105k miles on it. A few weeks ago I was doing some hauling and accidentally ran my truck a quart low on oil. I think this was due to it being low to begin with as I haven't had the truck for long and used the dipstick as a guide instead of the manual (4 qts vs 4 3/8.. doh..) , as she usually doesn't burn much oil.

The truck has had the usual timing chain rattle for the first second or two during cold starts, but nothing out of the ordinary from what I've read about this engine.

Last week I fired up the truck after it sitting for a few weeks (oil was topped off at this point) and heard a much louder rattle and then some lovely pots & pans noises coming from the top end.  The truck ran fine during all this, but the noises just about stopped my heart. 

I immediately suspected the timing chain guide having read about it, and pulled the valve cover and sure enough there was a nice chunk of the guide (driver side) sitting to the right of the cam sprocket with the rest probably in the oil pan. This was the newer guide being a '97, so the metal backing was still in place.

My questions are:

1) Given that this was the "fixed" guide, why did it fail at 105k?? My guess is running it low on oil, but who knows what happened to it before I got the truck...
2) How immediate is the need to replace the guide now that it failed, since it still has the metal "backing" piece intact? The chain had tension (maybe 1/8" deflection) when I looked at it and is just a little noisier than normal w/o the plastic cover.

Thanks in advance for any advice!


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## zanegrey (Dec 5, 2005)

the recommended replacement of t-chain and components is about 12o k miles..

so give or take driving conditions ,weather and time factor 105 is not bad..

you should have fixed it the first time you heard it..
so now that you know what it is fix it fast..

it will only cost more as the damge is greater from now on..

i do not beleive that being a quart low affected n e of this....


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## nyagh (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks for your comments Zane, however I'm pretty sure the FSM does not indicate replacement of the timing chain at any interval.

I guess what I don't understand is what the point of the metal timing chain guide fix was. As near as I can tell the plastic cover on the guide only serves to quiet the chain when it makes contact with the guide and versions exist both with and without a channel. The tensioner itself appears to still be working fine, and I can't see how the chain would slip or come into contact with the case with the metal guide still in place?

Anyone else have comments or thoughts? This will get fixed eventually, but since it is by no means a minor job (the *shop* puts it at 11 hours!), I would prefer to wait for a more convenient time...


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## zanegrey (Dec 5, 2005)

no the timing chain manufacturer recommends that interval..

if the chain is rattling then it is most likely eating away at the back of the timing cover ..

it is your truck and just my comment...


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## nyagh (Apr 26, 2010)

I am just trying to understand how it is contacting the cover if the guide is still in place?


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## zanegrey (Dec 5, 2005)

the guides have more than 1 purpose.

yes they quiten the chain but they also track the chain and they have space that is now not accounted for.thus the chain is rattling and or slapping..

you will notice (when it is removed ) that the back of the timing cover where the water pump ports are that it will be scored from the timing chain not tracking correctly.
if left it will eventually eat a hole in the cover and cause water to mix with the oil..

that can lead to the bottom end going out ..ie.. a spun bearing ..


at any rate it only cost you more...


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## nyagh (Apr 26, 2010)

Gotcha, thanks for the explanation!


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## zanegrey (Dec 5, 2005)

that what were here for buddy..

that line was taken from payback with mel gibson when the cops take has gun from him to hold will he goes in to the outfits main office...


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## CMax03 (Jan 17, 2009)

That cold start isn't a timing chain rattle.... It's the cold rod bolts IMO....I upgraded mine to ARP's and never heard that sh!+ again......Don't worry mine spun a rod bearing @ 272,000 miles( and it's driven hard).....I'm now @ 338,000 miles....


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