# 70mm maf; sr20de, use it!



## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

Interested in running the bigger maf?
contact me P.M. [ priv mess]
I'm runnig one on my 91'.
The difference is huge...


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

fuzzz1 said:


> Interested in running the bigger maf?
> contact me P.M. [ priv mess]
> I'm runnig one on my 91'.
> The difference is huge...


define huge difference... 

Is your ecu reprogrammed for the larger maf?


and why the "contact me P.M. [ prove mess] " ????

This forum is for sharing information..

Not trying to sell some ebay chip are you? haha


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

myoung said:


> define huge difference...
> 
> Is your ecu reprogrammed for the larger maf?
> 
> ...


 Yes it is, indeed information that needs to be shared.
I've issued a challenge to the houston- based moderator within
the se-r Tx. chapter of se-r .net forums... Wherein,
I've extended an invitation for inspection and a test- ride of/ in
my 91' nx. The 70mm maf application is a nissan maf...and
the ecu has not been reprogrammed. You understand, I'm being
mindful of the flashing ad banners at the top of the forum and those and
whose products and services are promoted within.
To accomplish the use of the larger maf does require additional
controlling components; none of which do I sell, or in any way am I
affiliated with suppliers. Some of your members may own these.
I offer the same evaluation to a trusted member of yours, of your
choosing; in the San Antonio, Tx. area.
What say you? Up to it? I will offer mafs, thusly configured for the
application on ebay for less than what most are paying for the z32 maf
on the sr20det pages... If you like, I will forward to you my original
post I sent to the moderator. Send me an address. I'm offering the first 
three with a money- back
guarantee of satisfaction. Would you care to see the post?
You'll have to forgive the mild chastising of the 'guru', certainly
none- such would appear in these hallowed halls.
The truth exists in supports; it is the method of good science,
until a new truth undermines and replaces it... What say you?


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

sorry, forgot to define: huge difference.
The maf is the bottle- neck in your induction system.
Although we frequently see the q45 throttlebody on
custom manifolds in japan. I, personally, have not tried this.

No matter what modifications you may currently have.
The 70mm maf will provide a big surge in midrange as
you approach the torque- peak. You will notice, equally,
a stronger pull on the top end if you are using cams
that can exploit the increase of air. Personally, I found that
the stock cams play- out much too soon.

Got a g-tech meter?... Like to try it on a dyno?
I'm up to challenge...
I own two vpc set-ups; they are in reserve for all- out
forced induction. The maf is a better compensator for less than that.
You have atmospheric pressure pushing in; thats all.
Oh, yes, did I mention the guarantee?


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

Come up to dallas next weekend and dyno the stock vs your new setup. I'd like to see some solid #'s on it. I don't have much faith in the old butt dyno's.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

First of all if you are selling something, which it kinda sounds like... then you need to post in the classified section.



> To accomplish the use of the larger maf does require additional
> controlling components;


So what's needed? 



> a big surge in midrange as





> huge gains


Saying "huge gains" without any dyno chart to prove your claims makes it sound shady.. Since you're in Texas, Take up se-r-57's offer and head up to their dyno day in Dallas.. 



> You understand, I'm being
> mindful of the flashing ad banners at the top of the forum and those and
> whose products and services are promoted within.


Why?....It doesn't matter what banners are on this site... If you can show "huge gains" then we are all interested.



> I will offer mafs, thusly configured for the
> application on ebay for less than what most are paying for the z32 maf
> on the sr20det pages.


Why did I know ebay was part of this...lol


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

Tell you what, mr.moderator....
I'll go you one better...
You supervise or pick a member that wants to try it,
or yourself ... You dyno the thing on one of your cars.
You know what you've got under your hood.
Run a baseline and then a comparison, or take it to the track;
I don't care which.

I'll pay for the shipping both ways.
You go on record here not to tamper with it in any way.
Return it when done,or I'll be glad to sell it to who wants it.
Then if I choose to market some here, I'll gladly do so
in the classified section...
Any takers?..... The original note to the moderator of
Tx. se-r.net said: will be sold for less than what the det guys
are paying for the z32 maf [ average price].
a] you need a super afc, one of the blue florescent models
which are the fourth and fifth generation of the product;
some familiarity is helpful.
b] you need a good o2 monitor. I am partial to the efi unit
which also has a injector cycle display. If you have a
techtom 100 this will do fine; I've prototyped using
both at the same time....


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

Sorry, I am with myoung on this. There is no one who will believe you unless you post some dyno sheets, 1/4-mile times, and even pictures of this MAF. Credibility is the issue. No one will believe you unless you present the facts. Until then, you are as shady as Ponzi, my friend.


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

I belive what I said was: you'll notice a huge difference in
midrange pull tword the torque- peak. This is a time- to distance
phenomena best evaluated at the track. Use a stopwatch.
Somebody else said huge gain, [ slightly out of context ]
which is more suggestive of huge horsepower.

What I set about to do here is introduce the product and 
service. However, I do stand corrected, it does belong in the
classified forum. It won't be there.

Gentlemen, you know as well as I do that anybody can fudge
quarter mile times. Anybody can fake dyno charts or borrow
them from someone else on the net...Don't let this get out,
but it happens more frequently than we like.

If I bring you my car, which I won't, someone will say that
I've done something else that is responsible; come-on,
that is what the tear-down and pit inspection after the
race is about. Right?
I can't do any better than what I've offered,
a free evaluation on one of your cars; you know how its equiped.
Free round trip shipping? Somebody will see this who already
has an s-afc, and why wouldn't you also be using a good monitor
for mixture. They are fine- tuning instruments;
even though the three- wire o2 sensor is only so- so in the world
of such things. I will shortly run a five- wire for added precision.
Look, I understand your trepedations. What I'm suggesting is
'off the popular think' on the matter.
What I wanted to do, was take your evaluation to the marketplace;
not the other way around.
I don't know anybody who actually drives their car on a dyno,
but the thing would prove- out there too; only moreso in the
real world.
My regards to mr. young and Mr. Harris ...
Anybody else, trustworthy; suspicious there might be something
to it? P.M. me, leave me a phone number.
Ahem, this is not a sale it is a loan; you cannot buy it from
me. You'll have to buy it in the marketplace- you know where.
Satisfactory, gentlemen?
I'll check back sometime latter. I do buisness in the marketplace
as 1fuzz45- you know where. You can learn about it from the
testimonials I accumulate; which is part of the deal. Has anybody
noticed the z32 maf sales on the det pages you know where?
Why are they selling? Why do you think whats good for them
Isn't good for you? Why do you think you won't get the same
good results? Why don't you go there, watch an auction close;
send a message to the buyer and ask him? Why would you think
there is something mystical about a turbo that makes this all
possible? 
Please, the poor man has work to; building a quicker car.
Don't argue with him; he does'nt have time to educate you.


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

P.S., the maf looks like any other 70mm nissan maf,
ponzi- my friend; because it is ... cedric, skyline, maxima
they are all the same... they all flow the same
amount of air, being a 70mm tube.
The one I use on my car is a skyline; big deal,
the intelectual property is another matter.
Don't let this get out, but the q45 / m45
maf replacement for my supra is even more
impressive....see ya


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

fuzzz1 said:


> P.S., the maf looks like any other 70mm nissan maf,
> ponzi- my friend; because it is ... cedric, skyline, maxima
> they are all the same... they all flow the same
> amount of air, being a 70mm tube.
> ...


I dunno, I tried a larger 70mm MAF and it didnt really do anything until the car got well past the 170 hp level, it made about 3-4 hp once it got past about 180 hp.

On a bolt on motor and a mildly modified motor with headwork and big cams, it didnt make any differece on a dyno.

Do you have dyno sheets or do you have any more details about the engines base setup? I presume you are talking about an NA motor. On a turbo motor a bigger MAF makes a huge difference.

Have you dynoed it?

I have a feeling the power gain is from leaning out the mixture with the AFC. If you go from the stock mid 11 A/F ratio to the low 13's, you'll feel a big power increase.

If you are willing, send us one of you modifed MAF's and we'll test it. If you want we'll share the results with you first if you agree not to sell the product on our forums if it does not have a benifit. If it makes a lot of power and provides a value for our readers, we'll do a full NPM article on your product.

If this is secret intellectual property you don't want out, why are you posting to keep it secret on an interent forum in front of thousands of strangers?

Mike


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

fuzzz1 said:


> You dyno the thing on one of your cars.
> You know what you've got under your hood.
> Run a baseline and then a comparison


Just curious... have you done this? and can you share the results. We will happily do an independent test, but it is a norm when someone/company claims hp increases with a new product that they at least try to show some documentation.



> I don't know anybody who actually drives their car on a dyno,


No they test and tune on dyno's, 



> If I bring you my car, which I won't, someone will say that
> I've done something else that is responsible; come-on,
> that is what the tear-down and pit inspection after the
> race is about. Right?


The offer was to bring it to the Dallas SERCA dyno day, not a race. Plus you would never want to test power mods by racing. 

Who could say something else was responsible if you dyno'd with the stock setup, then switched to you larger maf setup and dyno'd again in front of everyone?


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

wouldn't the throttle body be more of a restriction than the air flow meter???


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

James said:


> wouldn't the throttle body be more of a restriction than the air flow meter???


No the MAF on early SR cars has a real small hole.

Mike


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

mp2-- here is correct;
This is exactly who I'm looking for;
someone with a 91' - 93' se-r, nx2000 or g20;
I've got base settings for you at this time.
Mr. mp2-- Tell me a bit more about how your car is
equipped...? I wasn't aware that your late model
sentra 'sports' a larger maf. What size is it?
Tell me, how did you accomplish running the 70mm
maf? No offense, but I'm sure I've read something
strikingly similar on the net... To the effect:
So & so will be happy to reprogram your ecu for
the z32 maf, but found no.... ect. ect.
Mr. young [editor] 
I'm going to P.M. your mailbox.
What is being sent, guys, is a direct contact
for myself; but sir, I belive I read above a
commitment for preserving the integrity of what
I may send to you for evaluation.
Please go on- record below as to that
in no uncertain terms.
What I need from you now guys is someone to step-
forward, so equiped with car and equipment discussed
previously...You know, the pretty blue dashboard jewelry
I've discussed is not that expensive if you buy a used one.
The fourth generation has the buttons and can be had
for about 220.00 maybe less if you look. Don't forget a
simple, reasonably accurate 02 monitor. Personally, for my
stuff, the lean/ rich only gadgets won't do. The
techtom has a voltage scale that is as fast as the EFI,
but the latter is easier to use at a glance. Better to have
a co- pilot for digital displays..Thats why we prefer
analogue guages right?
You won't care for my egg; it isn't pretty, but it is the
'scurge' in my area and I have fun with it.
I'm someone who needs my 'day job' as implied by my handle.
I have a family, aged parents, and a I've a five year old son to 
look after; that makes this a pet project.
Most, like myself, have been forced into minivan land by now.
You might be interested that my own 'guru' warned of your
possesed nature concerning numbers data.

I trust you to that. Your editor can contact me when you've
got a member equipped to do the evaluation.
In the meantime, somebody put-up an e-address below
and I'll send you some less- than pretty pics of my
diabolic labratory. Did you know that some lady here in
San Antonio invented liquid paper in her sink?
Thought you might like that. Sure you don't have anyone
here that wants to have a closer look?
Until then........fuzzz Any body ever seen a twincharged
7m ? Don't worry, nobody has...
I was born on the same day as Michael Jackson,
but hey; guess that makes me the lucky one.....


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

fuzzz1 said:


> mp2-- here is correct;
> This is exactly who I'm looking for;
> someone with a 91' - 93' se-r, nx2000 or g20;
> I've got base settings for you at this time.
> ...


Sorry, let me give you a background, my SR is a 95 model low port. It has a ported head, big mechanical cams, 11:1 compression, big tube header with a 3" exhaust, different ECU with a 8600 rpm redline. It makes 200 [email protected] 8000 rpm.

On this motor a bigger 70mm MAF made 3-4 hp accross the board. It had your typical lame small bore MAF stock.

On previous experiements, I found no difference in power going to a 70mm MAF with a corrected program on motors up to 170 whp. Once the motor got into the 180 whp range, then a bigger MAF and throttle body seemed to help. Not until the engine started reading a vacume in the intake tract at WOT (indicating that there was an actual restriction) did it make a postive difference. This is on motors beyond your typical bolt on stuff.

I have noticed a slight gain in power at below 3000 rpm and at 5000 rpm with a bigger MAF, on lesser engines proably because of the effective lengthing of the intake tube. This is only 1-2 hp but its repeatable.

Are you sure that your power gains are not from simply leaning the mixture? What A/F ratios are you running before and after the mod?

Would you prefer testing the big MAF on a bolt on car (intake, header, cams, exhuast) or a totaly stock one? I think it has the best chance on a slightly modded car. I do have a wide band UEGO A/F meter.

Mike


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

Sorry, I tend to ramble a bit when tired...
Install an EFI and get accustomed to how the thing dithers
back and forth across the scale. Nissan did some really weird
stuff with this lean/ rich oscilation to achive balance. You'll
see about two- to- three oscillations per minute under part- throttle
steady- state cruising; or idle after a real good warm-up.
The EFI is only accurate when under load for minding the mixture.
Put your foot in it, up a long ascending grade is good.
With your stock set- up, familiarity is key to your success
latter on... See the last yellow and first green light?
This is what you're looking for under load... just these two
trading-off; as it were. The techtom will give an oscillating value
switching between the low number [ above zero ] and the
high number .7, .8 [less than one], be familiar with it.
Now you need the dashboard jewelry.
The american version is the same, buy it; you can read the instruction
manual. My first one was jpn; think that wasn't fun? 
My only clue was the flowchart. Guys there are alot of people that
have these things; alas, they are usually jewelry.
Set it and leave the augmentation alone... ala correction values.
You have the hot wire 6 [ H6] ... h6 -in h6- out. 
Follow the instructions... A word about quick connectors...
Soldering skills and shrink- tubing are the way; tape only if you must.
Let someone really really good install it for you, or don't do it.
This device is serious buisness guys; I bought my newest one from
a guy in Florida, burned -up his celica he did....he missed the
serious part. Raise the correction value [ richen ] see the difference?
look at the EFI; put your foot it... Now put the value back leave it
at zero across the scale... no correction. Get familiar with your
learning computer [ecu] . See how it tries to compensate to the
change you made at idle? It can ,to some degree you know.
This is why you unhook the battery, every time you make a change
to your set- up. A new part [mod] you do this right? twenty
something start-up cycles...What ? ... Hook up the battery and take
it out and drive the crap out of it; it'll learn fast...
Sorry guys, but you've just been misled too long about things that
have no value, because you have a mystical nissan that doesn't
respond to the things ' others' are using... I just read a post about
some new cams on the ser. net and 200hp and cam timing and
solid lifters [ I have some jun lash killers] and Oh! a 70mm maf
on a normally aspirated engine... I thought it had no value?
Wasn't it this guy who only had hydrolic cams ground, that spouted
zero cam timing; invented under -the curve cam- speak to mystify
you when engine builders call this ramp- rate....
and then there's Sara and her ' stick to your hydrolic lifters'
solid ones require maintenence.... That rack of yours' Sara;
now come- on, thats somebody elses toolbox isn't it?
Pay attention guys, you've just been misled too long...
Another day, I'll explain to you why you want a super ITC.
You do have one of these don't you?


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

Mp2:
Man, you're equipped... sure you've got me beat.
Look, you've just answered your own question.
Somebody else guessing at your fuel map and air consumption...
You've got to take control of it yourself and bring it in.
Thats the principal of the power fc, haltek and other programables.
I don't understand why you took off the maf?
Gotta go for now.

.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

fuzzz1 said:


> Snip
> Sorry guys, but you've just been misled too long about things that
> have no value, because you have a mystical nissan that doesn't
> respond to the things ' others' are using... I just read a post about
> ...


What you describe is the normal closed loop operation, its nothing weird, the engine will cycle up to 8 times in 10 seconds while it dithers in closed loop under light load conditions, not every few minutes. If you see changes in a few minutes, its because of Alpha or the long term fuel trim is coming into play, also another normal modern ECU function. If you exceed about a 10% change in MAF voltage, you will start to activly fight the control loop.

You also can't tune well with Hal meters, et al and other narrow band O2 sensors.

As far as Zero cam timing, what are you talking about? What is a curve cam? What are you talking about in general? You are hard to understand?

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

fuzzz1 said:


> Mp2:
> Man, you're equipped... sure you've got me beat.
> Look, you've just answered your own question.
> Somebody else guessing at your fuel map and air consumption...
> ...


What I am saying is very simple, in my testing which is pretty carefuly controled, as much as you can with the dyno's etc. that are availible to the public, a bigger MAF doesnt make any difference worth the expense until you have a pretty wildly modifed engine.

Are you claiming that a big MAF helps on stock or near stock engines? Do you have any specifc numbers to share with us? They way you write is really hard to understand what you are getting at. Do you want us to test something? Are you claiming anything? I am getting confused to what you want and what you are trying to say.

I know for sure that that's Sarah's rack, I have actualy seen it.

Mike


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

I still want ya to bring your setup to Dallas this weekend and dyno it. I'm with Mike the way you ramble I can't understand what ya want. If it kicks so much butt bring it on. I've tuned lots of SR20's and most of the old school guys know me I tell it like it is. If it works I'll say so if it don't I'll say so too. By the way we can dattalog too I helped develope this www.300degree.com/electronics/nprobe I know my stuff.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

> and then there's Sara and her ' stick to your hydrolic lifters'
> solid ones require maintenence.... That rack of yours' Sara;
> now come- on, thats somebody elses toolbox isn't it?
> Pay attention guys, you've just been misled too long...


What does this statment have to do with this topic?

misled by whom? Sarah? huh? please explain...

maybe you should try adding a few spaces between your statements, its hard to follow what you are saying.. 

It also appears as though you really don't want to answer any direct questions.


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

O.K. , sorry; I mixed too many messages above.
- You are correct, it was a typo; the oscillations on the
mixture are per second.
- The reference to Sara was the cam shoot-out
article on Nissan Performance Mag, or perhaps sport compact
car web site, but I thought you'd recognize it.
- I never heard anybody claim to run stronger
going lean, this is news to me. Are you saying you've
done this? 13 is too lean 11 is too rich for a normally aspirated
motor. 9 is what your heading to if you're blowing serious.

Look, in cyberspace, you're only as good as your word.
Try some trading; snake- oil salesmen and performance chip 
people don't last long...Junk stops selling. We go in, now and
then and warn people-off about the R.V. bathroom- fans
people are trying to sell like the real e-ram....
I Don't have a fancy store-front to show you; or an illusion in
cyberspace; or the dyno numbers...and I won't lie about it...
Are you running the big MAF or not?

When you find somebody who wants to try it, has the equipment
I told you about and will satisfy the editor that it is installed
[ I tend to like Mr. young; never met him ].

**** I will give this item to the brave soul amoung you
willing to try it. You keep it; That person won't remove it.

**** I will buy back the EFI for $100.00 , the going rate;
the really good tuning item you're so willing to poopoo. 
I can use another one anyway.
**** I'll buy the fourth generation s- afc... still working...
for $220.00 or the fifth generation model for $250.00
[ hey, I can get 'em that Cheap ]. 
and I can use a back- up If one of mine fails....
My tuning is based on it.

**** We'll ask Mr. young to referee the whole thing.

Does nobody looking really have this stuff?
Hey, I 've got to keep my word here guys...
I came here to go to the marketplace remember?

I'm not coming to Dallas. I don't have anything 
to prove, but I get so tired listening to people
who buy part w, x, y,
with a promise of 15, 20, and 10 horsepower- from
people who may be fudgeing the numbers; 
and it never works out like that anyway. 
W- is making cajun, X- is making sausage and
Y- is making italian food; and it all smells soo- good,
but when you mix it up it tastes like crap, why is that?

The guys' car down the block is just like yours,
but he always takes-you by just a little... why is that?
Its tollerance variation and it came with your car.
Did somebody write your fuel map on a dyno?
Did you hold the stopwatch on your dyno to
see who got the horsepower and torque first?
Your still not listening; go back to the last question.
If you counted on somebody writing the map to play
with the maf, its ballpark at best, read conservative...
How did they account for the rest of your equipment?
not...
The aussies are burning roms like crazy till they get it
right; some of them still know how to tune.

I'm guessing you're still running 259 injectors; I nearly
maxed mine the other night when it was really cold. 
From 30 to 100 I hung right with
the guy in the 350z, but he got away when I made the
4th, to fifth upshift and it came off the cam too far to
keep up with him... all of this 
from a 91' nx 175k original miles 9.5 to one compression
lacking somewhat by now, but when you spin it fast
it does'nt have time to leak- down.
I bought a set of hks cams new for $350 on e-bay
[ woops] anyway 264, 10.5 lift. and I have an
ignition timing controller. Have you caught me 
fibbing yet? I had a full tank of gas, tool boxes
behind the seat, and a very big stereo- which
fills the hatch and there is no room for the spare...

I have too many of these dam mafs; somebody
try one .. 

I will hold your hand by phone if necessary and help
you bring it in- to your car...
You drive it everyday; and your gawd gave you
a seat- of- the- pants evaluation to serve you
when your brain fails to do it.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

fuzzz1 said:


> O.K. , sorry; I mixed too many messages above.
> 
> - The reference to Sara was the cam shoot-out
> article on Nissan Performance Mag, or perhaps sport compact
> ...


I still don't understand what you want? A test of a Nissan 70mm MAF? Sarah doesnt write for SCC. SR20's general make the most power naturaly asperated with the A/F ratio in the low 13:1 range. 9:1 is so rich it will bairly take throttle. I am running a big MAF and do so on engines I tune that put out more than 180 hp. What is a good tuning item I poo poo? I poo a lot of alleged things, all of which don't work. I run 370cc injectors. Whats an item?

Your writing is still really hard to understand what you want.

Mike


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## narcotix (Nov 7, 2003)

From the looks of the prose, somebody is about to erupt in a rap-off.

Look out!


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

narcotix said:


> From the looks of the prose, somebody is about to erupt in a rap-off.
> 
> Look out!


huh? I must be dense today.. missed that compeltely


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

myoung said:


> huh? I must be dense today.. missed that compeltely


Me too but I'm old so go figure


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

se-r-57 said:


> Me too but I'm old so go figure


I just wish this guy would reply in english. None of the moderators understands what he wants either.

He seems to have an interesting point I think, can't be sure though.

Mike


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## narcotix (Nov 7, 2003)

morepower2 said:


> I just wish this guy would reply in english. None of the moderators understands what he wants either.
> 
> He seems to have an interesting point I think, can't be sure though.
> 
> Mike


Exactly...and the replies look like some kind of bad poetry competition entry. Hence the rap-off comment. Jeez...c'mon, I'm getting up there too...just tryin' to stay hip with a kid on the way.


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> I just wish this guy would reply in english. None of the moderators understands what he wants either.
> 
> He seems to have an interesting point I think, can't be sure though.
> 
> Mike


 Looks like we might have a volunteer;
stay tuned......


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

fuzzz1 said:


> Looks like we might have a volunteer;
> stay tuned......


 I guess not...

Where Is that dyno? Is the offer still good?
Please send a map. What day are we talking about?


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

fuzzz1 said:


> I guess not...
> 
> Where Is that dyno? Is the offer still good?
> Please send a map. What day are we talking about?


 I got a shout- back from morepower2; seems he had offered me
a ride... sr with s-4 cams and an exhaust. Guess He has more than
 one car... When I pulled- up cypress california on the yahoo map,
It does'nt seem to be all that far from
El Cajon, california... That part interest anybody but me?
Pull-up your favorite part maker....

Then I got reminded that it only makes 1-2 horsepower on an
engine like mine; and a good wish to sell a maf for 50.00 bucks.
This is getting real interesting fellas. Anybody checking what I say?
You should be checking everything...
Looks like some people are getting worried...
Let me ask you a really dumb question:
What the hell do you think you're suppose to do with a s-afc anyway?
And are you paying for the dyno time?


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

fuzzz1 said:


> I got a shout- back from morepower2; seems he had offered me
> a ride... sr with s-4 cams and an exhaust. Guess He has more than
> one car... When I pulled- up cypress california on the yahoo map,
> It does'nt seem to be all that far from
> ...


What are you trying to say?

I live 2.5 hours from JWT. I have tested 70mm mafs on a dyno. I have a wideband A/F meter. I do all of my testing on a dyno. I use dynojets and dynopack's depending on what I am doing.

I have test data, I have already tested a 70mm MAF, I find it to not give a huge gain on mildly modifed engines even with corrected A/F ratios.

I think you are trying to say something like you have never tested a 70mm MAF on a dyno but you know my testing is wrong? I think most people have a lot of trouble understanding what you are trying to write.

Probably thats why no one belives you, its not that you are unbeliveable but you are hard to understand. Their is no cover up, no one knows what you want or what you are selling or if you are even selling anything. 

Mike


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> I think most people have a lot of trouble understanding what you are trying to write.


Try saying all people are having a lot of trouble understanding exactly what he is trying to convey to us. That would be more accurate.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Harris said:


> Try saying all people are having a lot of trouble understanding exactly what he is trying to convey to us. That would be more accurate.


I dunno, in a private e-mail, he said I was leading sheep and being bribed by JWT or something. I am still not sure if thats what he was really talking about but it seemed like it in a sideways fashion. I just told him the 70mm MAF doesnt give that much power.

Its not like I don't belive him, I want him to share some information if he has any....

Mr. Fuzz, please give some hp figures or dyno charts or something we can understand!

Mike


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

I wish he would come to Dallas on saturday and dyno. If it works I know people would really like to know about it. Like I told Mike on a P.M. the other nite I would even be willing to pay for the dyno time. Thing is I don't know anyone that is using a SAFC on a sr20 motor. I don't care much for the SAFC setup myself.


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## myoung (Apr 15, 2002)

I think I need an asprin from trying to comprehend this thread... 

If I get this right your saying we've are all brianwashed by JWT, but at the same time you refuse to supply any documnetion to back up your claims, you also turned down the opportunity/invite to dyno your setup and prove your theory at the Dallas meet. Seems it would be worth your time and add greatly to your reputation, if you accepted the offer.

JWT upgrades are all dyno proven... Are yours?


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

se-r-57 said:


> I wish he would come to Dallas on saturday and dyno. If it works I know people would really like to know about it. Like I told Mike on a P.M. the other nite I would even be willing to pay for the dyno time. Thing is I don't know anyone that is using a SAFC on a sr20 motor. I don't care much for the SAFC setup myself.


 Saturday is getting closer by the minute and this weekend might not work.
If I can't make it, would you extend it to me another weekend?

I consider your offer gracious and I thank you for it.
Please tell me under what circumstances [weekend days ect. ] The dyno is
available to you? Why am I asking? I carry some weight around my
waist; for the newest Dept. of defense you can think of. I am expected
to react and I'm probaby more of a slave to my obligations than you.
I mentioned that its' hard for me to get away.
It occurs to me, that I could do some fine- tuning; even if I have to
pay for that extra time. Your friend is right, what I have to work with
is a poor substitute for your machine. The design goal, was to see if
it could be done in a cost effective way. I believe there are only two
dynos in the big city I live; one guy is really testy and will tell you to 
get lost- real ugly. Not everybody has access to a dyno.

Forget the stuff on the first pages of this thread; I wanted to show
everybody how they can use this maf; do it with the same size injectors,
get some real gains [turbo too] and do it all without having to reprogram
the ecu... Short and sweet. Let me know the details.
I have been holding- off on the e- ram [ the real one ] until I could
settle the argument on the maf. One pound of boost; all the air- volume
this engine needs [750 cfm] and a special lube we supply to the 
radio controlled guys. Their jets are faster... I'm not selling you lube.
I don't sell the e-ram either; but you already see the turbo guys going
better through a 70mm hole. Its all tidy logic gentlemen and will
stand- up to the test. We'll get together on it.
Like you, this is just my hobby; I need my day job...


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

Poetic, yet incorrigible. This reminds me of the time I tried to read Thoreau when I was in elementary school.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

fuzzz1 said:


> Saturday is getting closer by the minute and this weekend might not work.
> If I can't make it, would you extend it to me another weekend?
> 
> I consider your offer gracious and I thank you for it.
> ...


So are you using a ducted fan from an RC plane as an electric supercharger? That ought to be interesting. If the motor is about 2 hp, it might make a difference. I tested the original e-ram and found it to lose 6 hp to the wheels and the makers cried fraud. I invited them to attend the dyno test and never heard from them again.

If your work permits, please try to attend the dyno test in Dallas, it would be better if you are there to make sure you are happy with the results and the way its tested. I belive you when you said you could make the bigger MAF work with with an AFC, I just don't think you are going to find a huge power difference on a mild NA bolt on car, maybe a few hp. We are eager to see the results.

Mike


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## fuzzz1 (Feb 15, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> So are you using a ducted fan from an RC plane as an electric supercharger? That ought to be interesting. If the motor is about 2 hp, it might make a difference. I tested the original e-ram and found it to lose 6 hp to the wheels and the makers cried fraud. I invited them to attend the dyno test and never heard from them again.
> 
> If your work permits, please try to attend the dyno test in Dallas, it would be better if you are there to make sure you are happy with the results and the way its tested. I belive you when you said you could make the bigger MAF work with with an AFC, I just don't think you are going to find a huge power difference on a mild NA bolt on car, maybe a few hp. We are eager to see the results.
> 
> Mike


 I appreciate it. Its' 3:00 a.m. and I'm at least
5-6 hours away. Nobody has told me where this event is..
I'm assuming it is today. I'd like to come, but if its not going
to happen this weekend for me, then when can we do it?
Somebody give me a location I can pull-up on a map.
If I can't get there today, then I'll know where to go.
Please, the location will do fine; I realize the where to go
part is tempting...thanks.

I don't make that ducted fan, don't sell it either. The only
reservation I have is whether It will amount to a restriction when off.
It is an expensive little toy; only capable of a pound of help.
It has a current draw; needs 50amps. If you did'nt use 4ga wire
all the way, a cadnium starter solenoid switch or a ford starter relay,
you did'nt help it. I bought this thing second- hand. It came with a
bosch- type foglight relay...20amps short of what it needs. I've been
fooling with a chamber that may bypass when off; this part is brand new
territory. Its guesswork. With only a little push available, I see a 
problem going through a 53mm hole. A 70mm hole looks more promising.
I have'nt tried it yet, but you have. Certainly, it won't amount to anything.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

fuzzz1 said:


> I appreciate it. Its' 3:00 a.m. and I'm at least
> 5-6 hours away. Nobody has told me where this event is..
> I'm assuming it is today. I'd like to come, but if its not going
> to happen this weekend for me, then when can we do it?
> ...


Some had better tell you where the dyno day is because I don't know other than its in Dallas.

The thing I tested was a E-Ram which was a crappy little weed blower fan. I think your fan has several times more power judging from the amp draw so it might do something. If you have a bypass, whats going to keep the air from blowing up the bypass and not going into the engine? You need a one way check valve in the bypass.

Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

fuzzz1 said:


> I appreciate it. Its' 3:00 a.m. and I'm at least
> 5-6 hours away. Nobody has told me where this event is..
> I'm assuming it is today. I'd like to come, but if its not going
> to happen this weekend for me, then when can we do it?
> ...


Let me ask you something. If I already tested the 70mm MAF and changed the QA table in the ECU to make it work, then verified the mixture and tuning with a wideband O2 sensor and found little gain, and you don't belive me, why should you belive me to test your 70mm MAF with an SAFC when I would do the same thing, tune it for best power.

If the mixture ratio is the same, I should get the same power and it won't make a difference how the set up is tuned as the engine runs by the mixture ratio, not what device is controling it.

Why don't you think my dyno testing is valid? I think from your writing that you have not dynoed your set up yet (Its very hard to understand you). I mean the test would be ECU retune vs SAFC and their won't be any difference in power if the A/F ratio is the same.

On a highly modifed motor, the 70mm MAF is good for some power but not a huge world beating differnece like you seem to claim. If you want me to test it, I would just be testing the SAFC, not the MAF!

A bigger MAF makes more intake noise and which could make it seem faster.

Mike


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## originalcb (Feb 22, 2004)

fuzzz1 said:


> Interested in running the bigger maf?
> contact me P.M. [ priv mess]
> I'm runnig one on my 91'.
> The difference is huge...


Just replaced mine on 88 300zx, tell me more, had a hard time finding a replacement outside of the pick & pull!


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

Hey fuzzz1 if ya wanna dyno the setup this sunday the 29th let me know. We have another dyno setup (almost a weekley thing here in Dallas :thumbup: ) It's on a dynojet 248c with wideband and I can dattalog with the nprobe. Let me know and we can hook this up......................james


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

se-r-57 said:


> Hey fuzzz1 if ya wanna dyno the setup this sunday the 29th let me know. We have another dyno setup (almost a weekley thing here in Dallas :thumbup: ) It's on a dynojet 248c with wideband and I can dattalog with the nprobe. Let me know and we can hook this up......................james


Maybe PM the applicable info to him directly. I think he wants to go but doesnt know where.

Mike


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> Maybe PM the applicable info to him directly. I think he wants to go but doesnt know where.
> 
> Mike


I shot him a PM but haven't heard back yet. I'd kinda like to see if it works. Or if it doesn't.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

fuzzz1 said:


> I appreciate it. Its' 3:00 a.m. and I'm at least
> 5-6 hours away. Nobody has told me where this event is..
> I'm assuming it is today. I'd like to come, but if its not going
> to happen this weekend for me, then when can we do it?
> ...


OK Mr Fuzz, I tested a 70mm MAF today on a SR with S4 cams and HS Gen 5 header and CAI with UD pulleys. Then I bolted on a 70mm MAF and reproamed the ECU to correct the A/F ratio. Guess what sorts of gains I had? Zero!

I did put a vacume gauge in the CAI and the intake manifold and the manifold vacume at WOT fell from 8-9 inches of h20 to about 7-8. The CAI vacume was about 3 inches lower so their is less of a restriction with the 70 mm maf but the throttle body appears to be a worse restriction, its just not enough for the engine to make more power.

Perhaps with a 70mm MAF and a bigger throttle body, a difference might be made on the bolt on level. I'll test a bigger TB soon.

I seriously don't think you are going to find a huge difference when and if you dyno either.

Mike


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## ReVerm (Jan 13, 2003)

I think you guys scared him away.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

ReVerm said:


> I think you guys scared him away.


Mr Fuzz, got any feedback on my testing? 

Mike


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## Harris (Nov 11, 2002)

Good job, Mike. I knew this guy was full of baloney, but your facts just laid the smack-down!


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Harris said:


> Good job, Mike. I knew this guy was full of baloney, but your facts just laid the smack-down!


I get upset when people spread balony for personal gain, like selling something. He had great conviction though, enough where I thought I should double check my work and retest more throughly than in the past. Now I can say solidly that it is not worth getting on an NA car until you progress to internal engine work and are pumping out near 190 whp.

He seems like one of those consperiacy theorists, emplying that I am bribed by JWT since JWT is in southern california and I live in southern california, haha I live 2.5 hours drive away.

I posted my findings on his thread on sr20 forums as well. I really wants to see what he has to say about this.


Mike


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

*Calling Mr Fuzz!*

I just dyno tested a 70mm Throttle body and a 80mm MAF on my 200 whp all motor SR20 and guess what? No power gain. What do you have to say about that?

Are you alive or did you go somewhere?

Mike


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## Chuck (Nov 19, 2003)

myoung said:


> I think I need an asprin from trying to comprehend this thread...
> 
> If I get this right your saying we've are all brianwashed by JWT, but at the same time you refuse to supply any documnetion to back up your claims, you also turned down the opportunity/invite to dyno your setup and prove your theory at the Dallas meet. Seems it would be worth your time and add greatly to your reputation, if you accepted the offer.
> 
> JWT upgrades are all dyno proven... Are yours?


Im brainwashed by JWT..

BUY jwt
BUY JWT
BUY JWT>>.... BRAIINNNNSSSS.. *zombie*


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

Chuck said:


> Im brainwashed by JWT..
> 
> BUY jwt
> BUY JWT
> BUY JWT>>.... BRAIINNNNSSSS.. *zombie*


although funny... i get the feeling you're about to get the smackdown!


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## se-r-57 (May 1, 2002)

ReVerm said:


> I think you guys scared him away.


I guess so. I can't even find anyone here in Texas who knows who he is and I thought I knew most of the SR20 guy's here. Oh well back to normal. :dumbass:


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## ballisticc (Aug 28, 2003)

He lives in San antone, James, you might ask howard (mr ryte) if he knows of him, He's in SA too.


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