# brake noise problem - urgent help needed



## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hello all,

I have recently purchased a brand new Nissan Xtrail with automatic transmission. When I hit the brake pedal for a complete stop of the vehicle, an unpleasant noise is coming from the brakes. The front pads were changed, however the problem was not fixed, the noise is still there. 

What may be the cause of this problem and how can it be solved?

Regards,


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Fakay,
Hard to say what it could be as you do not describe a whole lot. What is an unpleasant noise? Are they squealing, making grinding sounds, cyclical rubbing sounds? Also why are you sure its the front brakes? Basically your brakes are calipers, rotors and pads. It should not be that hard to figure out. However, its brand new, so let the dealer fix it. My guess is an improperly fitting brake pad tab that that binds a bit in caliper slides, otherwise maybe caliper itself is slightly defective. Hope they can sort it out for you. Pretty much any mechanic should be able to help you with this. Good luck.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

It is of more like a "creaking sound". The noise is coming from the front side. Also, the technicians told me that it should be the front brakes. You can hear the noise even more from outside of the vehicle. The technicians say "it is OK to have this noise", therefore they do not do much about it. However, I believe the noise is not normal. The dealer also claims that the noise is normal. Shall I change the front calipers, disks and pads all together?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Fakay2004
Creaking sounds? My guess then would be more suspension related. Did they examine the front struts and sway links? Its possible things are just settling in so to speak and the sound will disappear after a few more hundred kms. If its anything to do with the pads bedding in, go for a drive and do some hard stops from 80 to 100 km/h but don't fully stop, and give the pads a chance to cool a bit, and then do a few more stops from 60 or so, coming to full stop for about 4 seconds. Should ensure that you have sufficient pad transfer to the rotors. 
If the dealer claims its normal, have him go with you for a test drive with another one on the lot. I am sure it wont do the same thing. Good luck dealing with them. No point replacing everything as they are all brand new.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

It is not related to the suspension system for sure. I am not quite sure about the right word to tell the sound, maybe "groaning" would be a better one. 

How do I give the pads a chance to cool a bit without stopping ?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Fakay
I guess its hard to describe. Groans and squeaks aren't really the same. Curious why you have ruled out the suspension system, as braking puts it under stress and struts can make a bit of a groaning sound.
Re brake cooling. Just means you are not stepping on the brake pedal and letting air flow over (and inside the vented rotors) so heat is dissipated. All I mean is to wait a minute or a couple of minutes between the hard stops.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

I have ruled out suspension system because the official technical service of Nissan told me that the sound had to do something with the brake-rotor combination. They tell me that the sound occurrs when the brake fully holds the rotor (i.e. disc) and add that the sound is normal. Actually, you can hear similar sound when you move your foot slowly away from the brake pedal. 

Today, another mechanic, after hearing the noise from inside and outside of the vehicle, told me that the noise had nothing to do with the braking system, instead he claimed that the noise was coming from the coil spring. Therefore, your initial guess of correlating the noise with the suspension system can be right. 

Tomorrow, the mechanic will check my car in details and hopefully we will identify the cause of the noise. 

What do you think the mechanic should check in order to understand the cause of the problem?

Regards,


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi again fakay
Struts include your coils and top strut mounts, we'll call it the strut assembly. I am sure your mechanic knows what he is doing. Maybe a coil insulator either top or bottom was left out in assembly process, or maybe some bolt was not torqued properly. Maybe by loosening the top center strut bolt and then retorquing it to recommended tension, might allow it to seat better if spring is not quite seated properly. But don't do this yourself if you haven't become familiar with everything and the knowledge to not remove that bolt or back it off held by only a few threads. It's under high tension and could seriously injure you should it fly off and hit you.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

Four different mechanics investigated the cause of the noise, and all of them agreed that the noise was coming from the pad and rotor. It is the noise you hear when the pad fully holds onto the rotor. Some mechanics say this noise is normal, some say the noise will go as I drive the car more and more reaching several thousands of km's. Some say the noise is not normal. What a choatic situation 

Take care,


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

I visited the technical service of Nissan yesterday. The mechanic put some squeal stopper on the front pads. There has been no noise for 4-5 hours and then the noise started again but with a lower level. 

What do you thinkl about this?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Fakay
You must be sick of seeing mechanics. Good news that lubricating the back of the shims and the tabs got rid of the groan. Bad news, it seems to be temporary fix. What is happening in my book is that one of your pads or rotors has a hard spot and until it wears down a bit more, it somehow hits the perfect vibration harmony to make the sound you are hearing. Otherwise one of the tabs on the end of the pads is sticking slightly in its guide, and not quite making proper contact with the rotor. This would make it grab slightly and slow the full release between pad and rotor. These tabs could perhaps use a bit of filing down to slide better. And lastly, I think maybe one of the shims that they lubricated might be slightly loose or have shifted a bit out of position. Radical solution might be to just swap out the Nissan front brake pads for another brand of ceramic pad which hopefully come with integrated shims. I noticed RockAuto has pads for yours. Rears are the same as my X trail, Rogues and bunch of Infiniti models, your fronts seem to be same as those from 2009-14 Maxima and a few others based upon the Akebono references. Good luck with it. If you havent done the hard braking, I suggested try that out a few times over the next few days.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

Thank you for your kind suggestions. Today, I tested the car again, and it seems that the noise goes away or reaches a minimum level after I drive the car 10-12 km's. Does this make sense ? 

The mechanic also told me that this noise will go after the car reaches 3000-4000 km's of driving. Does this make sense? 

Take care,

Fatih


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

Which brands can be used for my car's front brake pads? Please let me know.

Regards,

Fatih Akay


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

I provided a link in your newer thread. But I would wait two or three more weeks to see if it does go away. Otherwise, tell the dealer you did not buy a new vehicle to keep having to bring it back every few days for brake noise. Write a letter to Nissan Japan and contact their client line in your country. Usually replacing rotors and pads should renew proper braking performance. For some reason ( probably a hard spot) yours have a defect. I do not understand why they want to make it seem so mysterious. What does changing one rotor along with the pads cost them? Its minimal good will.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

I have already contacted Nissan Turkey about this noise problem, however they told me that there was nothing wrong with the braking system, and the noise is quite normal. In other words, they do not see the noise as a problem. That is why they do not care much about it.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

when i check out the pads on rockauto for my vehicle, i noticed that some pads come with additional hardware called noise elimination clips. I checked out my Xtrail's pads and the pads do not have this hardware. I also checked BMW 5.20's pads and it does have this hardware. Now, I think this is the cause of the noise problem.

I think I should get pads with noise elimination hardware and try them on my Xtrail to see if the noise goes away.

What do you think?

Also, do you think the pads for Xtrail 2014 or Rouge 2015 fit on my Xtrail?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Fakay, Still driving you nuts I see...
When you say noise reduction clips are you referring to the metal clips that go on to the caliper slides and which the ends of the brake pads slide in?
If so, I am sure you already have them. Some better brake pads come with them included, others do not and you either reuse your old ones or buy new ones to replace them. 
Regarding the pads, I am really not sure. The picture you sent me showed a type of u end shaped brake pad tabs that may be different from what is being used in North America on the ROGUE. 
Brake pads also usually have shims that go on the back of them. In the pics of the pads you sent me, I did not see any. They can be a source of noise. Can't believe no one can figure it out.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

I think noise reduction clips (also known as anti-rattle clips) come in different shapes. For example, take a look at the link below. This is something that I do not have in my Xtrail pads. BMW uses such anti-rattle clip. 

M A D R U S S I A N . N E T - E46 M3 DIY

Another type of anti-rattle clip is given in the link below. This is integrated on the pad surface. I think my pads do not have this.

https://www.google.com.tr/search?q=...tWKtPa_xwIVgQgsCh0_Ywfo#imgrc=WWZFVI3zpYY1RM:

My pads do not have rubber shims. Instead, Nissan put some sort of metal shim on the back of the pad. I do not know why it is metal. Do you think it is better to use rubber as a shim?

Unfortunately, there are no pads in Europe that I can purchase for my Xtrail 2015.

Nissan dealer says the noise is normal, therefore they do not care much about it.

Do you think the product given on the link below can fix my problem? 

CARBON CLEAN TURKEY


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

Hi
Whenever i change pads on my cars ,i use these shims,they always come with the pads kit.
Know i m trying ceramic pads on the xtrail. 
I was tired of seeing metal stuck to the car paint.


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

otomodo said:


> Hi
> Whenever i change pads on my cars ,i use these shims,
> they always come with the pads kit.
> Know i m trying ceramic pads on the xtrail.
> I was tired of seeing metal stuck to the car paint.


Forgot to insert link. http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Njc5WDc4MA==/z/4L8AAMXQyY1TVOfg/$_35.JPG


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Otomodo,

Do you have Nissan Xtrail 2015? If so, what brand of pads do you use? Please let me know.


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

I have the 2005 rust edition lol.
These parts change very little through the years.I ll take a look at the box on the shed to see who made them,but can say the're ceramic.
The oem ,semi-metalic, let go some metal and it gets on the car paint.When it rusts, the car looks dirty.
The shims are for a snuglle fit,since they re a generic brand it must fit on other models without shims.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hey Otomodo,
Thanks for clarifying the source of those minute rust spots that get embedded into the clear coat and require a clay bar to remove. The OE pads for our xtrail were organic ceramic, however I switched to semi-metallic with semi cheap rotors. Makes for great braking but the price is the rotors wear down faster. Ceramics work great once warm, but I find first stop or two is never quite 100% feeling. Right now I replaced my metallic pads with high end ceramics, and kept my used rotors. They are working great and silent so I haven't bothered replacing the rotors just yet. However, I got a great deal on high carbon rotors, so I will eventually switch them out. The more expensive rotors will probably wear less and more slowly. Oh, and by the way ceramic pads often have a bit of metal in them.

Fakay can you confirm you actually don't have these clips. If you have alloy wheels you should be able to see your caliper and where the brake pag tab slides. If you see a thin shiny bit of metal at both ends of pads, those are your abutment slide clips or what are being called anti-rattle clips. Again this is the part that the end tabs of your brake pads slide in, as your brake pad tabs are different, so to would be your clips that they fit in.

Your 2015 X trail is the same as 2014 ROGUE, however the pads look to be a bit different based upon pictures I have seen. Maybe that design of pad you have is not supposed to require such clips. Sadly your car is not appearing in too many data bases that I can find, but sadly internet search results are biased to North American sites, and I haven't found it easy to find an answer to your question.

Maybe you should try another Rogue forum, or phone Nissan technical assistance for your country directly and see if you cannot get an answer. The best would be to look at the factory service manual of its available. Maybe ask your Nissan dealer parts couter to print out a schematic of the brakes for your car showing all the components and torque specs.


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

Eurorotor f1 ice is the brake pads brand i bought .
45$ set shims included at a local autoparts not a franchised one.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria and Otomodo,

Please take a look at the photo that shows the pad on my car. (http://s4.postimg.org/uobiuipe5/my_pad.jpg) I believe the thin shiny bit of metal at the end of the pad is my anti-rattle clip, right ?

Another type of anti-rattle clip is given on https://www.google.com.tr/search?q=...KrJGnxscCFYq0GgodK2gKxw#imgrc=WWZFVI3zpYY1RM:. My pad does not have this clip as well.

Also, take a look at the shim of the pad in the photo. The shim is made up of metal (aliminium or silver). Most of the pads have integrated rubber shims. I do not understand why Nissan used metallic shim. I checked the shims used on the pads of other car brands, and it looks like they all used rubber shims. Do you think metallic shim is the cause of the noise?

I ordered the product "Liqui Moly Brake Anti-Squeal Paste", the details of which is given on LIQUI MOLY - Motor Oils, Additives, Car Care - Products - Brake Anti-Squeal Paste (can with brush) . Do you think this can help to remove noise?

Also, I am interested in ordering another product called Lubegard 90201 (CARBON CLEAN TURKEY). Do you think this could be useful?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Fakay
Yup those are they. I am curious what the additional spring like wire is, and what it does. Regarding the shims, both my front and rear pad sets that I installed recently had metal shims. So do the Pads Otomodo mentionned. It is very common and I dare say time tested. I somehow doubt the shims are the problem. You can try the Lubegard, but otherwise, I am sure your mechanics at Nissan all would have used brake lube in the proper places. 
Last question are you sure the sound is from the front brakes? Happened to me once, that I could have sworn squeaking was coming from the front, and it turned out it was the rear brakes. I am sorry to hear no one is fixing this for you. My X trail is 8 1/2 years old now, and the brakes are smooth, strong and quiet.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

I am not sure about the function of the spring as well, but it is a common thing which I see on other cars as well.

As far as I know, the function of the shim is to eliminite noise. If metal is used as a shim, how would it eliminate noise? I checked BMW, Honda, Renault, Kia and some other cars, they all use rubber as a shim. Is it just Nissan that uses metal shims?

Also, the metal shims on may pad do not come in the package of the pads, they come in a seperate package. (i.e. pads and the shim are from different manufacturers) This may lead to vibration problems as the shim may not perfectly fit on the pad. What do you think?

My mechanic used some brake lube, but for some reason, he put it on the front side of the pad, which, I think, was a big mistake. As far as I know, these lube's should be put on the back side of the pad, and should not make any contact with the front side of the pad.

I listened to the noise from outside of the car and it is definitely coming from the front side.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

I've done many disk brake jobs and have always used the metal shims that came with the brake pads with no problems about brake noise. Some brake pads come with the shims glued on which is OK. When using brake lubricant, use only high temperature, specially formulated silicone based caliper lubricant. Use it only on shims, spring clips and slider pins; NOT ON FRONT SIDE PAD SURFACES that touch the rotors. Doing so will ruin the pads. 

Akebono Premium ceramic or Raybestos Professional Grade ceramic brake pads are two excellent products; they are very quiet and provide good stopping power.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Rogoman,

Thank you for your kind response. 

I ordered the product "Liqui Moly Brake Anti-Squeal Paste". (LIQUI MOLY - Motor Oils, Additives, Car Care - Products - Brake Anti-Squeal Paste (can with brush)). do you think this is good enough?

Also, I am interested in ordering another product called Lubegard 90201 (CARBON CLEAN TURKEY). This product is put on the dics. 

Do you think I should use both products to get rid of noise or using only the first one is OK?


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Rogoman,

I lived in Philly between 2001 and 2005. I was a PhD student at Drexel University at the time.

The photos of my current pads are at http://s10.postimg.org/94vxnd22x/IMG_20150815_WA0006.jpg and http://s8.postimg.org/srjn6jn91/IMG_20150815_WA0007.jpg

WHat do you think about the quality of these?

Take care,


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

fakay2004 said:


> Hi Rogoman,
> 
> Thank you for your kind response.
> 
> ...


The "Liquid Moly" will work just fine. I've never used any product to put on the disk surfaces or on the pad friction surfaces. The important thing when install new pads is to re-cut the rotor disk surfaces. If the rotors have been in use for quite some time, the surfaces get glazed may be wavy possibly causing brake squeal. 



fakay2004 said:


> Hi Rogoman,
> 
> I lived in Philly between 2001 and 2005. I was a PhD student at Drexel University at the time.
> 
> ...


The pads look OK but what brand are they. Also do you have shims for these pads? I didn't see them.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Rogoman,

Take a look at my pads (http://s4.postimg.org/uobiuipe5/my_pad.jpg). As you can see, there is a metalic shim on the back side of the pad. As for the brand, I think it is AKEBONO (there is AK on the pads), however I am sure whether they are metallic or organic. I got the Liquid Moly today, I will have the mehanic apply it tomorrow, let's see if it will work out.

By the way, my car is new, it has 2000 km's on it. In this regard, the disc as well as the pads are also new. 

Also, I tested some other brand new Xtrail's over here, and they also have this noise problem.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Fakay you are overthinking this, metal shims aren't an issue. The pads Otomodo recommended I have for my rear brakes and they have a metal shim. The Raybestos Pads Rogoman recommended also have a metal shim. I have those for my front brakes. And as you can see Nissan uses them as well with their pads. And for the last time your pads are ceramic.
The link for your pic is not the right one. When you sent me the pictures of your pads, they did not have the metal shim backing plate on them, but I assume they were just removed for some reason. 
I wouldn't want to be selling Nissans in Turkey if they all have squealing brakes. And I am sure your X trail is far from the cheapest vehicle sold there.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

The metal shims on may pad do not come in the package of the pads, they come in a seperate package. (i.e. pads and the shim are probably from different manufacturers). This may lead to vibration problems as the shim may not perfectly fit on the pad. What do you think?

My mechanic used some brake lube, but for some reason, he put it on the front side of the pad, which, I think, was a big mistake. Although the noise went off completely at the time for about 4-5 hours, it started off again later on. As far as I know, these lube's should be put on the back side of the pad, and should not make any contact with the front side of the pad.

I got the Liquid Moly today, I will have the mehanic apply it tomorrow, let's see if it will work out.

Nissan management in Turkey claims that the noise is normal without even hearing the noise!!! 

Xtrail is one of the most expensive SUV's in Turkey.

I am still not sure whether metal is a good choice. If it was, why do the higher quality brands such as BMW or Mercedes do not prefer using metal shims on their cars?


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

I think that metal shims are for a more tight fit,maybe that s why oem does not come with it and generic yes.
The shims i have don t need a spring to hold them on caliper,they clip and stay stable.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Fakay Nissan sells the shims separately so they can nickel and dime their customers with extra charges whenever they do a brake job. This way you pay for pads, shims, and clips rather than having them all included in the price of the pads. Lastly if metal shims caused squeaks, almost every car built in the past 40+ years should be squeaking away, but less us know how it goes. As well, I doubt using a different brand of brake lubricant is going to make a difference but at this point what the heck. Good luck.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Hi Quadraria,

Today, when I was driving from work to home, there was no noise on the brakes. I am sure the noise will come back tomorrow morning. Do you think the noise depends on the weather conditions, humidity level etc? 

By the way, the mechanic put the lubricant on the front side of the pad when it was first applied. This was apperantly wrong. This time, the lubricant will be put between the caliper and the pad. Let's see how it will do this time. 

As for the metal shims, I have not seen any other brand other than Nissan using them.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Otomodo,

Maybe it is the spring that causes vibration and hence the noise. Maybe the metal shim is not so tight. What do you think?


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

fakay2004 said:


> Otomodo,
> 
> Maybe it is the spring that causes vibration and hence the noise. Maybe the metal shim is not so tight. What do you think?


Not really, the spring holds the shims in place.

Drive down an empty highway or a country road at high speed 100km/h brake hard down to 30 km/h then speed up to 100 and down to 30 up to 100 down to 30 .
Drive away to let the rotors cool down for at least 10 minutes. After that if the noise comes back well i m out of ideas.

How s the hand brake?
Tight (less then 10 clicks)?


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Otomodo,

What will happen after I follow your suggestion of hard breaking?

The hand brake is electrical.


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

fakay2004 said:


> Otomodo,
> 
> What will happen after I follow your suggestion of hard breaking?
> 
> The hand brake is electrical.


You will cause a rapid wear of the pads on the rotors.
Instead of waiting 10000 km to have brakes seting in properly,this does pretty much that.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Otomodo,

In this case, I would not follow your advise  Why would I want to wear the pads rapidly - for the sake of getting rid of noise ?

By the way, Liqui Moly was put on the back side of the pads today, however it did not work out that much.

I got a chance to see the pads today. The pads have integrated shim in addition to the metal shim, so there are two shims on it.

However, my pads lack the anti rattle clip, which you see in the link: https://www.google.com.tr/search?q=...K57DHy8cCFYsIGgodWEwBYQ#imgrc=WWZFVI3zpYY1RM:

I think lacking of this built-in clip is the main source of the noise. What do you think?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Fakay why do you keep linking a pic of a bmw brake pad. It happens that bmw brakes squeak as well. Otomodo is saying the same thing I said at the start, and what at least one of your mechanics has told you. You seem willing to buy new pads and all sorts of lubes, but you do not want to waste your brakes...
Do a little research on your own for how brakes work what cause squeaks, but please stop putting forth these junk guesses. If one the mechanics really did put brake lube on the actual pad surface, he is more than incompetent... that would be dangerous. If he did he would have to clean off the pads at a minimum, and then most likely sand them down a bit. Maybe you should have someone cut the rotors anew, and maybe by removing a bit of material you will get rid of the offending bit of metallurgy that wants to vibrate.
Just for fun go onto a bmw forum, and you will find owners with a similar complaint, same with infinitis. And you will read how their dealer told them its normal, and that squeaking brakes are not a defect...
I really hope your noises do go away with a bit more mileage and some hard stops!


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Brakes squeaking



Squeaking brake issue finally found and resolved.

Very squeaky, loud brakes at low speeds

a little reality check for you. Happy reading.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

One more observation... The brakes do not squeal when it is hot during the day time i.e. between 11am and 6pm. You start hearing the noise in the morning and in the evening when the weather is cooler. What do you think about the effect of weather condition on the noise.

Also my pads are metalic for sure. If they were ceramic, I think they would make less noise.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Fakay then go get new ceramic pads. You do not believe the Nissan ones are, so who cares about reality. Order a set from Germany or Rock Auto or whomever has them for your vehicle.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

For what its worth ceramic pads do have metal in them. Its usually copper.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

If there had been pads that fitted on my car, I would have already ordered them. Unfortunately, there is none yet, nowhere in the world. 

What do you think about the weather conditions? See, it is 6:30pm over here right now, I tested the car and the noise started. The noise was not there up until 6pm.


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

Have you tried with the blinkers on?
Could be the blinkers fluid.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Must be strange humidity from the Bosphorus. What type of degree change are we talking? Here in winter we go below -30 and in summers to plus 30s with humidex that pushes 40 sometimes. More like they are light activated... sorry I am about to get ridiculous, and I don't want to make a joke about your problems with your new car.
Go out and take a hard drive and put all your frustration into hard braking. It just might work.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Otomodo,

This is a serious problem for me. I do not want to hear your VERY FUNNY jokes !!!


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

The noise I hear is neither a "squeal" nor a "squeak". There must be a different word for defining it, maybe "groaning" or "grinding" but I am not sure. 

In turkish, we say "garc gurc" for this noise.

The weather change is not that much, but what I am telling about the effect of weather change on the pads is correct.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

Do you know any method to make the front side of metalic pads softer so that they do not make noise?

Alternatively, do you know any lubricant that can be put on the front side of the pads as well as on the rotor?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Fakay you went to university. Its friction that stops your car. You really want something that reduces it???? With a bit of effort and probably a few local phone calls you can find a set of pads that fit your X trail. They must me a bit different for the European and Asian markets. Good luck. Sorry I couldn't help.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

You mean pads manufactured for different brand of cars but also fit on my Xtrail 2015? 

I contacted many local auto parts stores over here, but none of them had any pads for my Xtrail.


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

fakay2004 said:


> Otomodo,
> 
> This is a serious problem for me. I do not want to hear your VERY FUNNY jokes !!!


This is real https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1b/4e/3c/1b4e3cf69528b3fa9f7217904fb2b4d9.jpg


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Otomodo,

Use it on your own car ...


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

fakay2004 said:


> Quadraria,
> 
> The noise I hear is neither a "squeal" nor a "squeak". There must be a different word for defining it, maybe "groaning" or "grinding" but I am not sure.


Since you're describing the sound as being OTHER then the traditional brake squeal, you might want to examine the wheel bearings. Is the noise in both wheels? Defective wheel bearings can produce a groaning or grinding sound.

The best way to check them is to remove the brake pads all together, put on at least two lug nuts to hold the rotors against the hub. Now spin the rotors by hand and listen for any noise. Also, using a dial indicator, check for any lateral movement; there should be none.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Rogoman,

Nothing wrong with the wheel bearings. The noise is due to the friction between the pads and the rotor. And yes, the noise is on both sides.


Also, this noise is common in every car of Nissan with automatic transmission in Turkey. 

I think the solution is to use higher quality pads (i.e. ceramic pads with built-in antş-rattle clips), however there is none in market yet!


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Focus your search on European Part suppliers. Somebody in Germany or England has pads. I very much doubt there is a specific brake set up only for Turkey. Why do you think it does not affect manual transmission Nissans? How does the Automatic affect braking noise? And why would Nissan go backwards when my 2006 has ceramic pads and anti rattle clips as you like to call them. You already have Akebono ceramic pads. I am 99% sure. Why couldn't the problem be the rotor? Why keep insisting on the pads, and for the last time have you given it the hard drive and braking treatment. Until you do so, please do not post here again. This is becoming very repetitive.
By the way you had me wondering so I looked at a few X trail forums, and those for the new Rogue, and there is nothing about any brake complaints.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

1. Can you please repeat the steps of hard braking in a clearer way?

2. Does hard braking ruin my pads or disc?

3. I searched for European part suppliers, I chatted them online, I told you before that they did not have the pads yet.

4. I spoke with Xtrail manual transmission owners and they told me that they did not have this noise problem.

5. This noise problem is not related to my own car only. I told you before that I tested 2-3 brand new and used Xtrails over here and they had the same problem.

6. Do you think the rotors of all the cars I tested had problems?

7. Before my raising this noise concern, there was only one message in Turkey forums about this. What it means is that people do have this noise but do not care about it. So, the same situation can be true for the new Rogue owners as well.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Fakay its been described at least 3 times. Go fast brake hard without coming to complete stop-- ie. Go from 80 km/h or 100 and brake hard to 10 without fully stopping do this a few times, and wait a minute or so between the hard stops. For transferring pad material to your rotors Nissan recommends going from about 70 km/h to a full stop for about 4 or 5 seconds, and then going forward again. Once again you can do this a few times. Be firm with the pedal you want to cause wear and friction. You will not be prematurely wearing out your brakes. In any case you want to make sure they work well in emergency stop situations.

Just find a road with no traffic and go nuts. 

Maybe you could ask a Nissan dealer for alternate pad choices. Sometimes they have different ones for the same model. Otherwise be patient and their will be aftermarket pads soon.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

Thank you for your kind advise again. So, which one shall I apply? your advise or Nissan's ? just because yours and Nissan's look different. According to your advise, no need for full stops, however Nissan recommends full stops. 

What do I do after completing hard stops?

I have already asked Nissand dealer for alternative pads, they do no have any.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

When installing new pads you need some of the material on them to transfer to the rotors. Nissan's procedure is for this. Sorry to confuse you. The hard braking I am suggesting is more to speed up the bedding or proper mating ( sounds obscene) of your pads and rotors.

After hard stop you just keep driving a bit, then do another, and then another. All you are trying to do without getting your rotors bright red with heat, is to cause a bit of wear to get rid some minor glazing on pads or wear down a high/hard spot on rotor. Basically speed up your 1000 to 2000 more kms the mechanics suggest you drive.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

The car has already more than 2000 km's on it, however most of it has been gathered out of town on highways, which means not too much use of the brakes for complete stops. My friend's Qashqai has more than 4000 km's on it, he has the same noise problem as well.

I will follow your advise of doing hard stops, but I simply could not understand why brand new cars need such procedure. 

Also, please take into account my observation about the effect of weather on the noise. When I go to work, I park my car in a parking lot. The car stays there for several hours and it is really hot outside. When I start driving the car in the evening at around 6pm, I hear no noise at all. I think the pads do not make any noise as long as the temparature on them is kept more than a threshold level. You start to hear noise when the weather gets cooler, which in turn decreases the temperature on the pads. This situation has been observed by me several times on different days so I am pretty sure about the effect of the outside temperature on the noise. What do you think?


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

Another question for you: My pads have two shims on it, one that comes with the pad itself, and the other is metalic shim. What is the function of the second metalic shim? What happens if I take the metal shim out?


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

Waiting for your kind response to my posts...


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

Are you alive?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

My dear friend I am at the limit of my ability to help you. I do not want to be rude, but I am bored with this. Inform yourself how brakes work, Read an article or two.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

Believe or not, I read tons of articles on braking, pads, brake noise, lubricants, brake discs etc... 

All I need is some helpful information from you as you seem to be experienced on this topic. 

Also, as I told you before, all Nissan cars with automatic transmission in Turkey have this noise problem. 

Therefore, your help is very important - not just for me but for a huge crowd.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

I am in Canada. Trucks and buses make brake noise, and the odd car as well. My experience is my brake pads start to get noisy when they are getting near the end of their serviceable life. I am sure the X trails in Germany do not have noisy brakes. What is special about Turkey I have no idea. To one of your previous questions does temperature affect brakes, answer is yes, however the ambient temperature outside and the actual temperature of your brake components after a bit of use will not be the same. The brakes will be much hotter.
Trust me when I say I have no answers for you.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Quadraria,

Another question for you: My pads have two shims on it, one that comes with the pad itself, and the other is metalic shim. What is the function of the second metalic shim? What happens if I take the metal shim out?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Experiment away. Maybe you will discover new noises with it removed. For what its worth every dealer thinks brake noises are normal with their new cars. They just want the customer to go away. I am just glad I can do my own brake work and when I do they do not squeak or make noise. Brake feel is great.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

I will definitely experiment on it. Brake noise can be normal with the new cars as long as the noise goes away after putting some mileage on the car, which is not case for Nissan cars.

Also, in order for me to correctly identify the right word for my noise, are "squeal" and "squeak" same? How about "groaning" and "grinding"?

By the way, you do not hear this noise at all when you stop uphill.


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Then could it be related to the Electronic Brake Force Distribution system.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

fakay2004 said:


> My pads have two shims on it, one that comes with the pad itself, and the other is metalic shim. What is the function of the second metalic shim? What happens if I take the metal shim out?


According to the FSM, the outer brake pad uses two shims, the inner of the two has slots in it and the outer one is solid which is referred to as an outer shim cover. Like QUAD said, you can experiment with the shims to see if anything helps to reduce the noise.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

My both pads (i.e. inner pad and outer pad) have two shims... What is the function of the outer metalic shim? Just covering ?


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Don't know what the Nissan engineers had in mind about the second shim. It could just be a covering or serve as a damper for undesirable harmonics. Haven't found any documentation on the subject.


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## fakay2004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Rogoman,

I think it is just Nissan using outer metalic shims. I did not see this in any car of other brand. 

It is certainly not preventing brake noise


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## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

Show us a picture of your car so i ll do a voodoo session with quadraria next time i ll be in Gatineau.


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## bogdan odwazny (Jul 1, 2019)

I think is a problem with bad parts out of specification Boob. They should recall !!!


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

fakay2004 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have recently purchased a brand new Nissan Xtrail with automatic transmission. When I hit the brake pedal for a complete stop of the vehicle, an unpleasant noise is coming from the brakes. The front pads were changed, however the problem was not fixed, the noise is still there.
> 
> ...


"AKEBONO ProACT Ceramic Pads w/ Stainless Hardware" are a very high quality pad set. I've been using them for several years now. Very quiet and effective stopping power. AKEBONO is an OEM supplier for Nissan. It may be advisable to re-cut your rotors to remove any waviness/grooves/glazing to insure good braking efficiency; since your vehicle is fairly new, there should be plenty of "meat" on the rotors for a safe re-cut. Rotors that are glazed can cause the noise that you'r experiencing. If you plan to buy new rotors, don't buy "junk" rotors on Ebay; many of them come from China and they will warp on you in no time causing more grief. Good rotors are from Wagner or Raybestos.


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## Daniel Cronje (Nov 23, 2021)

Good Day,

I recently bought a 2019 Nissan X trail.It sits on 40 000km. I recently changed the front brakes on the vehicle, due to a noise coming from the from wheels. This rubbing squealing noise only occurs when i am decelerating between 40 -20 kph.I have replaced the brakes but still this noise does not seem to go away. I have taken it to the dealership twice,but cant find the problem. It is massively frustrating driving in town at slow speed with this noise coming out of a relative new vehicle. Does anyone else have this problem,and what can i do for this to stop.I cant handle it anymore!

Thanks


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