# b12 sr20 motor swap?



## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

Okay, I have an 87 sentra as a project car. I am interested in dropping in the sr20de for now. I plan on using the b13 crossmember along with the 91-94 5 speed transmission. I read that I can extend the b12 linkage by two inches I have now and call it a day. Is that true? Since I am using the b13 crossmember, what motor mounts am will I have to fabricate? Is there anyway to mix and match mounts to get things to work? What wiring harness would be the easiest to work with? I am tempted to use megasquirt so I can start with a clean, guaranteed harness and have more options down the road. Yes I know that these questions have been answered, but sentra.net and npm seems to be down. What other suggestions can you guys give besides using the search engine? lol... Chris


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## bestb12injersey (Sep 11, 2007)

you will need to shorten the linkage and you will need the whole harrness to the ser and the mounts all need to be fabed. to top it off you will also need a good brake up grade because the car will not want to stop. im in the process of doing the swap because its hard to find a ga manual trans that doent have a 5th gear pop out. the car is not going to ride comfortable and is going to vibrate a whole lot so get a good sterio system and prepare for the hard pulls unless you go with a stock clutch and regular tires. my car is almost done and it will hit the streets once more before dec 30


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## Campground Man (Jul 18, 2007)

cj011 said:


> Okay, I have an 87 sentra as a project car. I am interested in dropping in the sr20de for now. I plan on using the b13 crossmember along with the 91-94 5 speed transmission. I read that I can extend the b12 linkage by two inches I have now and call it a day. Is that true? Since I am using the b13 crossmember, what motor mounts am will I have to fabricate? Is there anyway to mix and match mounts to get things to work? What wiring harness would be the easiest to work with? I am tempted to use megasquirt so I can start with a clean, guaranteed harness and have more options down the road. Yes I know that these questions have been answered, but sentra.net and npm seems to be down. What other suggestions can you guys give besides using the search engine? lol... Chris



Why not go with a Ca18det? You can use the gearbox and motor mounts from a 89 Pulsar Ca18de. You can also snag a factory Nissan Sunny wiring harness from a Nissan Sunny ca18de/ca16de and it'll all plug right up to that engine as well as to your dash etc. You can even use a Nistune daughterboard and download the correct fuel maps to run it on the factory Ca18de ECU. You'll avoid all that fabrication and vibration etc.

There is a FWD ca18det for sale right now on ebay for like 900 bucks...


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

I am playing devils advocate here and looking ignorant. Why would I go with the ca when it has 50 or so hp less? Also I plan on down the road going with a VE head, is there any variable timing available for the CA. I also don't mind solid mounts or fabrication the mounts.


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## Campground Man (Jul 18, 2007)

The only reason the GTIR SR20DET is 230 horses is because of the better intercooler compared with the non GTIR SR20DET which is only 205 hp. Basically 30 of that horsepower is based on the fact that the CA18DET had a crappy factory intercooler.

Since you will have to replace the intercooler anyhow, what your looking at is going through the trouble of all the fabrication/wiring for 20-25 horsepower.

Not only this but you can turn that factory ca18det up to 10 psi and you should put out around 250+ crank horsepower with a new intercooler.

I'd suggest checking out n-i-c-o-club(dot)com (remove the dashes) and their section on ca18det's. There is even a guy on here that has a 377 whp 90 model sentra. 

I mean it's your choice of course, but you can buy 500-700 more bucks for a GTIR SR20DET to get that extra 25 horses plus all the fabrication problems. Or you could take that 500-700 bucks and build 25 more horses without the fab problems...

In short for the money you'll spend to get the SR20DET you can have a CA18DET with the same or better output minus the fabrication time and costs.


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

great reply. thanks for the info. Why is it that the 1.8 is able to get so close to the 2.0 in hp? Is it due to the superior head? Also, is there any variable timing for the CA like the VE? Thanks, I definately appreciate it.


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## Campground Man (Jul 18, 2007)

.2 of a liter isn't a ton of difference in size. What do you expect a 50% power difference? I don't believe the CA has variable timing like the VE. 

I really think for the money it'll take to build a sr20det as well as add the VE head you could far surpass the power with the ca18det. Also, keep in mind the ca18det is a steel block and is superior in strength and can be more reliable with more power. 

Do a few searches on it, there is something about the valves and other components that make it a stronger engine for big power. It'll also rev past 8000 rpm.


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## BeyondBiscuits2 (Jan 18, 2006)

The CA18DET has the same 370cc injectors as the SR20DET, and also has a cast iron block that is basically indestructable. Also, originally the CA18DET came with a lower A/R rated T25, not the 80 A/R rated T25 on the SR20DET. So, they are pretty much almost equals. And as CampgroundMan pointed out, the CA18DET has a higher rev limit than the SR20DET. I don't think the CA18DET has any form of variable timing, but aftermarket cams and cam gears are readily available, including some from HKS and other major manufacturers.

However, in regards the GTi-R SR20DET, it has more horsepower because of several factors: 1. T28 turbo over T25 turbo, 2. independent throttle bodies per cylinder, 3. 444cc injectors. These three things equal that nice horsepower increase.


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

Guys thats for the info. I think you have convinced me in the 1.8CADE. I did stumble upon some info about using the 2.0 CADE block with the 1.8 head. 

Are there any other 18CADE cars that I could use the 1.8 and gear box out of besides the 89 Pulsar? Im here in Hawaii and I'm afraid it maybe a pain to come by. Didn't some of the 90+ sentra's use a 1.8? Can I only use the 89 cylinder head on the 2.0CADE block?


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

cj011 said:


> great reply. thanks for the info. Why is it that the 1.8 is able to get so close to the 2.0 in hp? Is it due to the superior head? Also, is there any variable timing for the CA like the VE? Thanks, I definately appreciate it.


let me also add that with regards to a VVT system on a forced induction vehicle, you are asking to blow it up, unless it was designed for boost. yes being able to breath better longer is good, BUT, may i add that most advanced VVT engines were designed to be high performance, high compression N/A engines, not boosted engines. this is why so many honda fanatics boost their b16a's and b18c's with just bolt on turbo's and no other work, then crank the boost and blow it up.

basically the battle of the late 80's early 90's in the 4cyl performance engine was low compression turbo engines, like our lovely nissan engines, or high compression VVT engines, like the honda vtech engines. toyota was kinda split down the middle and did both, with several turbo and s/c engines, and then the monster race developed 20 valve silvertop. 

in the end, VVT won, because it was cheaper to produce once it hit the production floor as it was simply computer programming more than anything, and was easier to maintain and drive daily. however, Neo VVL kicks the shit outta Vtech. 

that's why it's not favourable to boost a VE engine, unless you've done internal work. namely, putting in lower compression con-rods, most favourably from the VET. i can just imagine what a SR16VET N1 would be like...


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## Campground Man (Jul 18, 2007)

cj011 said:


> Guys thats for the info. I think you have convinced me in the 1.8CADE. I did stumble upon some info about using the 2.0 CADE block with the 1.8 head.
> 
> Are there any other 18CADE cars that I could use the 1.8 and gear box out of besides the 89 Pulsar? Im here in Hawaii and I'm afraid it maybe a pain to come by. Didn't some of the 90+ sentra's use a 1.8? Can I only use the 89 cylinder head on the 2.0CADE block?


The Nissan Stanza that came with the Ca20 FWD will have the tranny that you can also use. You'll have to use Pulsar motor mounts and CV axles, but any parts store can help you with that.

Here's a ca18det fwd (the one you'd want from a bluebird) for $900. eBay Motors: JDM Nissan CA18det Bluebird 1.8L Turbo Motor Engine Set (item 370111914519 end time Nov-21-08 19:16:25 PST)

Here the Gtir Sr20det for $2149.00 eBay Motors: jdm nissan sr20det pulsar GTIR 5speed awd engine kit (item 260316944389 end time Nov-23-08 09:49:49 PST)

You could take your extra $1300 and get a lot more out of your ca18det.


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

wow, thats alot of info. It makes sense about the n/a engines and boost. Yup, im definately going with the CA. Last few questions, promise. Can I use any 1.8CADE motors/cyinder heads found here in the us (sentras)? Also, can I use any of trasmissions that the sentras use for the 1.8CADE? I'm asking because out here, its pretty hard to come by a sentra, let alone a stanza. If I could just use the sentra 1.8CADE motor and trans along with the pulsar mounts and axles, that would make it easier...thanks guys..


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

in north america, the sentra never had the CA18DE. only the pulsar. however, there were s12's with other CA-series engines, and there were other cars with CA-series. the pulsar also housed the CA16DE. 

maybe someone has a more complete list of which CA-series vehicles housed a transaxle that's compatible with the FWD CA18DET?


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## Campground Man (Jul 18, 2007)

The only cars that can use the transmission from is the stanza, pulsar, and nissan sunny (euro sentra with 1.8). Other than the ca16de all of the 1.6's will not bolt up to the CA motor. I did this swap over this past year and I can tell you for certain, the factory trans can neither bolt up. The silvias and other cars with CA's were RWD. 

A list that the engine came in is available on wikipedia.

I'd check car-parts(dotcom) to look for a salvage yard with a trans.


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## BeyondBiscuits2 (Jan 18, 2006)

Also, if you are looking to be really bold, you can grab the transmission, transfer case, driveshaft, and rear end from a Nissan Stanza wagon. They are 4WD (button activated), but just leave the button pushed and you have real-time 4WD, though front-wheel biased. Have fun fitting that into a Sentra, though. I imagine it could be done, though.

List of CA-series fwd transmissions:
1987-1988 Nissan Pulsar NX SE (CA16DE) --US
1988-1989 Nissan Pulsar NX SE (CA18DE) --US
1984-1990 Nissan Stanza (CA20E) --US
1984-1986 Nissan Bluebird 1.8T (CA18ET) --EU
1983-1986 Nissan Bluebird GL (CA20E) --EU
1985-1990 Nissan Bluebird SLX (CA18NS) --EU
1985-1990 Nissan Bluebird LX-DX (CA20E) --EU
1985-1990 Nissan Bluebird 1.8i (CA18ET) --EU

Maybe someone else can do Japan, because I have no clue.


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

So can I use the block out of a 1991 nissan stanza? I found one on craiglist that I hope is still for sale. Dam car is dirt cheap..lol


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## BeyondBiscuits2 (Jan 18, 2006)

No, it has a KA24E in it. You'll need a '90 or earlier. Also, in the US, most Stanzas came as automatics, so finding a 5-speed (if you want one) might be difficult.


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

dammit. Oh well, I can keep digging around. Thanks again..


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

Okay stupid question time. How in the hell can I tell the difference between a ka24 and CA engine when looking at them? Yes Im a dumbass, but I just want to make sure


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

the valve cover...

google image search which each looks like. that will help enough, as they're completely different.


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

Okay more questions. Can I use the mounts from all 87-89 Pulsars or do I have to specifically use the 89? Can I use the 5 speed out of the 84-88 200SX? Any recomendations as to where to find the Sunny wiring harness and nistune daughter board? Is the nistune adjustable? Can I just use megasquirt on this motor? Are there any mechanical distributors from msd that can be used on the CA motors? I am contemplating a side draft n/a motor. Thanks guys


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

Also, if I use the Pulsar transmission, do I have to switch it over to hydraulic? Can I keep it cable?


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## Campground Man (Jul 18, 2007)

Yes you'll have to switch to a hydraulic clutch, everything bolts up, but you'll also have to change out your clutch pedal.

You can ONLY use mounts from a Pulsar that has the ca engine. 200SX's are rear wheel drive so no on the transmission. If you can find a sunny harness let me know because I need one myself - any european country, I'd suggest checking some forums over there and asking. Check nistunes website (google it) if you use nistune you won't need megasquirt and yes you can use megasquirt if you go that route. Ca engines do not have distributers - they have coil packs.


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

Is is possible to use the sr20 cylinder head on a ca block? I am pondering a ve cylinder head on a ca block. Can you imagine the fucking possibilities? An iron block with variable timing. I am thinking 52mm side drafts with solid lifters, worked head, rediculous high rpm cams. Shit, I am imagining the freeway pull right now.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

cj011 said:


> Is is possible to use the sr20 cylinder head on a ca block? I am pondering a ve cylinder head on a ca block. Can you imagine the fucking possibilities? An iron block with variable timing. I am thinking 52mm side drafts with solid lifters, worked head, rediculous high rpm cams. Shit, I am imagining the freeway pull right now.


lol, so you want to put an EFI SR cylinder head on a CA block and put on twin carbs...

can i chuckle a little?


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

yes I know its out there. lol


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

it's not out there... it's improbable. efi and carburetion are two different styles of fuel delivery. you can have one, not both. you might be thinking of Individual throttle bodies.

and an SR head will not fit on a CA block.


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

I found a 90 Stanza standard for sale for 600 bucks near me. I am calling him tomorrow.  Can I use the transmission out of the car with the 89 Pulsar mounts and axles? Lets say that I do convert it to the 18CA head, what timing belt would I use? I haven't found any info on that.


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## Campground Man (Jul 18, 2007)

Dunno about the timing belt, but you can use the CA trans from a stanza with the pulsar mounts and axles as you said.

Remember also, there were two different passenger axles for the Pulsar, pends on the date of manufacturing, be sure and LOOK at the axle - I think I had to go to O' Reileys to get the correct one because autozone didn't carry it.


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## cj011 (Nov 2, 2008)

By any chance is it possible to control the Stanza ecu? That dual ignition setup sounds pretty cool. I wonder if its been used on single plug heads? Probally a dumb question


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## skoebl (Jan 30, 2009)

Anyone know if the stock tranny from the b11 will fit a ca20e in any way? Or will it be a lot easier to just get one from a stanza?


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## b12bro (Nov 19, 2008)

E block+CA tranny=No Go!


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

Campground Man said:


> The only reason the GTIR SR20DET is 230 horses is because of the better intercooler compared with the non GTIR SR20DET which is only 205 hp. Basically 30 of that horsepower is based on the fact that the CA18DET had a crappy factory intercooler.
> 
> Since you will have to replace the intercooler anyhow, what your looking at is going through the trouble of all the fabrication/wiring for 20-25 horsepower.
> 
> ...


i have a gti-r motor in my n13 pulsar which is comparable to a b12 sentra...and its awd. so so anything can be done and it is quite simplier than most make it out to be. 
and the sr20det or sr20de have such a huge aftermarket!! why would you limit yourself to a CA motor???
you only have to fab it up once if you do it righ then you get to enjoy it for long long long time....suck it up!
i would offer pictures of mine but it wont help as i dont have that PITA cross member!!! hehe
you could weld up in the front gtir cross member...throw on the awd tranny..the other mounts are easy to fab.....and then go all out and mount a awd wagon rear subframe and rear end and really have a fun lil b12!!!oh yeah you gotta get fuel cell!! i have a 16gal foamed fuel cell!! and two msd fuel pumps!!

i have mine tore down to the shell ..welding up and smoothing the engine bay and doing a full wire tuck...fabbin up fender braces, and a triangulated rear strut bar, digital custom dash and smoothing the bodylines out and some other stuff i cant share!!

bottom line its not that hard of a swap get all your parts take your time and complete one project at a time.....


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

Campground Man said:


> The only reason the GTIR SR20DET is 230 horses is because of the better intercooler compared with the non GTIR SR20DET which is only 205 hp. Basically 30 of that horsepower is based on the fact that the CA18DET had a crappy factory intercooler.
> 
> Since you will have to replace the intercooler anyhow, what your looking at is going through the trouble of all the fabrication/wiring for 20-25 horsepower.


sorry steve, i have to step in here. the reason for the GTI-R's extra horsepower is BARELY due to the interfooler. i say interfooler cuz it's a top mount.

the reason the GTi-R SR20 has more horses is that its intake manifold is an individual throttle body setup. that is why it's the most finicky, and the highest output. so as far as the gti-r vs CA goes, gti-r is better. CA18DET vs bluebird SR20det is a way closer battle. in that instance, it's purely the interfoolers and displacement, and a CA18 bored out to 2.0 puts out more power than an SR20.


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

sonicgundam said:


> and a CA18 bored out to 2.0 puts out more power than an SR20.


yeah but the price doesnt make it a worth while step....you can make more power with sr20det with aftermarket parts for alot less than the ca18det parts....much better after market!


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

TOOQIKK said:


> yeah but the price doesnt make it a worth while step....you can make more power with sr20det with aftermarket parts for alot less than the ca18det parts....much better after market!


this is again, another serious misconception. everything needed for the CA is out there, and it really isn't that hard to find, there's just a wider range of companies making things for the SR. the CA is supported well enough, just have to look a little harder.


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

the sr20 is the chevy 350 in the nissan world the ca is like the 351windsor it has the ability but the price is so much higher.....
sr20 or plentiful and cheap! and like said the after market is HUGE!
the ca is a good motor but its not a sr20.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

TOOQIKK said:


> the sr20 is the chevy 350 in the nissan world the ca is like the 351windsor it has the ability but the price is so much higher.....
> sr20 or plentiful and cheap! and like said the after market is HUGE!
> the ca is a good motor but its not a sr20.


honestly i did the research and dollar for dollar quality wise, neither engine is more expensive to mod. the cost about the same.

the reason i suggest an SR is reliability. yes the CA revs higher due to it's head design. it is however iron block aluminum head. that means it's more prone to a BHG, and its heavier.

an SR is all aluminum, so the head and block expand and contract at the same rate, and the overall engine is lighter.


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

guess im partial to them....as i have owned several of them from stock to wildly modified and have never had an issue with them.


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