# Tire rotating question 87 300 zx nt



## slicked25 (Mar 4, 2005)

I see in the owners manual that you take the front tires and move them to the back and take the back two and chris-cross them to the front. 

I've never heard of this way of rotating. It's always move the back to front and vice-versa.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

The way the owners manual says is correct. Just putting tires from front to back wouldn't do anything.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Depends if they are directional or not. If they are directional they will only go one way so passenger back goes to passenger front and vice versa. If they are not directional then you can criss-cross them.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Depends if they are directional or not. If they are directional they will only go one way so passenger back goes to passenger front and vice versa. If they are not directional then you can criss-cross them.



You pop the tires off and turn them around.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Take them off and turn them around? THEY ARE DIRECTIONAL! They have specific sides to go on. There is a specific side of the tire that is the inside and a specific side for the outside. Your logic is flawed. Don't think you know something before you post MAKE sure you know something.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

THE TREAD IS DIRECTIONAL! NOT THE TIRE WALLS!

TAKE A DIRECTIONAL TIRE SAY IT'S LIKE THIS |/\/\|

IF YOUR BROUGHT IT TO THE OTHER SIDE WITHOUT FLIPPING IT'S NOW LIKE THIS |\/\/|

TAKE THE TIRE OFF THE RIM. TURN IT AROUND SO THAT THE TIREWALL THAT IS USUALLY NOT VISIBLE AND TURN IT AROUND TO WHERE IT IS. BOOM TREAD IS LIKE 
|/\/\|

I've done plenty of tire rotations working at a shop. It's not as difficult as your making it seem here.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Take them off and turn them around? THEY ARE DIRECTIONAL! They have specific sides to go on. There is a specific side of the tire that is the inside and a specific side for the outside.


I've never heard of this before, please post proof. _Directional_ refers to the tread only, not the sidewalls.......There may be an arrow on the sidewall stating direction of rotation. That's all. Asleep is correct on how to rotate.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣Zen31ZR♣ said:


> I've never heard of this before, please post proof. _Directional_ refers to the tread only, not the sidewalls.......There may be an arrow on the sidewall stating direction of rotation. That's all. Asleep is correct on how to rotate.


Have you ever noticed how your tires say mount this side on the inside and the other side says outside? Go look at directional tires and look for what I am saying. Also I have never rotated tires by taking them off the wheel. So maybe you guys should show proof.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Have you ever noticed how your tires say mount this side on the inside and the other side says outside? Go look at directional tires and look for what I am saying. Also I have never rotated tires by taking them off the wheel. So maybe you guys should show proof.



I've never seen directional tires with tire wall directions also. Please give some links to some. And I want to see proof on the site that it has to show a certain side wall.

I'll take a tire off my car tomorrow just for you.....


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Have you ever noticed how your tires say mount this side on the inside and the other side says outside? Go look at directional tires and look for what I am saying. Also I have never rotated tires by taking them off the wheel. So maybe you guys should show proof.


No, I've never seen that before. In any case, swapping tires around and keeping the directional arrow pointing the correct way, shoud still have the inside on theinside, and the outside on the outside, if you think about it.....  All you are doing is changing the side the tire is on.....


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Next time I am in proximity of my Jetta I will take pictures of the RE950s on the car.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

I guess I am wrong. Maybe it is just every directional tire I have ever owned (I have directionals on all of my cars except for the tires that are currently on the stock Z wheels) and they all say mount this side inside. I would take pictures right now, but I am three hours away from my garage.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Next time I am in proximity of my Jetta I will take pictures of the RE950s on the car.




I'll show you that my Bridgestone Fuzions which are directional doesn't matter which wall is showing.

Most tires are bi-symetrical and either way wouldn't matter which wall is showing.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

That would make those tires corner specific, and basically unrotateable, which would never happen on street driven tires. Track tires, and very expensive tires, maybe.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣Zen31ZR♣ said:


> That would make those tires corner specific, and basically unrotateable, which would never happen on street driven tires. Track tires, and very expensive tires, maybe.


I can swap back to front and thats all I do. Z gets a criss cross pattern. Everyone I know just swaps their directionals back to front; not criss cross like non-directionals.

I will accept it can be done, but nobody criss-crosses with directionals. It costs to much and it runs a higher risk of damaging wheels. If you do it maybe you are off in another world, but I have never known anyone who criss-crosses directional tires. My RE950s though can't be rotated except back to front.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> I can swap back to front and thats all I do. Z gets a criss cross pattern. Everyone I know just swaps their directionals back to front; not criss cross like non-directionals.
> 
> I will accept it can be done, but nobody criss-crosses with directionals. It costs to much and it runs a higher risk of damaging wheels. If you do it maybe you are off in another world, but I have never known anyone who criss-crosses directional tires. My RE950s though can't be rotated except back to front.



We always criss crossed when I worked at the shop... Otherwise the tire would have excessive wear and a horible wear angle.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> I can swap back to front and thats all I do. Z gets a criss cross pattern. Everyone I know just swaps their directionals back to front; not criss cross like non-directionals.
> 
> I will accept it can be done, but nobody criss-crosses with directionals. It costs to much and it runs a higher risk of damaging wheels. If you do it maybe you are off in another world, but I have never known anyone who criss-crosses directional tires. My RE950s though can't be rotated except back to front.


Any more, that's how rotation is done anyway. It was the good old days with bias-ply tires that rotation was done crisscross, to keep tire wear somewhat even. I'd say with the camber issues the Z31s have in the rear, criss-crossing might actually be a bad idea. I beleive most manufacturers stopped specifying crisscross rotation sometime in the late 80s anyway.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

♣Zen31ZR♣ said:


> Any more, that's how rotation is done anyway. It was the good old days with bias-ply tires that rotation was done crisscross, to keep tire wear somewhat even. I'd say with the camber issues the Z31s have in the rear, criss-crossing might actually be a bad idea. I beleive most manufacturers stopped specifying crisscross rotation sometime in the late 80s anyway.


I'd say criss crossing the rear like that would make the tire wear flat like it should instead of having an bad angle that the camber would make.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

♣AsleepZ♣ said:


> We always criss crossed when I worked at the shop... Otherwise the tire would have excessive wear and a horible wear angle.


That's more related to camber issues anyway. Cars like the IS300 have that problem.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣AsleepZ♣ said:


> We always criss crossed when I worked at the shop... Otherwise the tire would have excessive wear and a horible wear angle.


What shop? Your 15 you can't even work that much yet. I don't know of any shops that do that. If the wear angles are so bad why don't most people criss-cross them? When I rotate my directionals it is just front to back, also everyone I know does the same thing.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

♣Zen31ZR♣ said:


> That's more related to camber issues anyway. Cars like the IS300 have that problem.



Look at my latest post.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> What shop? Your 15 you can't even work that much yet. I don't know of any shops that do that. If the wear angles are so bad why don't most people criss-cross them? When I rotate my directionals it is just front to back, also everyone I know does the same thing.



I worked at my friend's family shop for 2 years. Changing oil, tire rotating, mount and balancing, and computer diagnostics, and some simple engine and electrical repair. Which I must say helped a lot with my Z.

With the Z back tire it will wear the inside down easily. If you criss crossed them it should wear them flat.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣AsleepZ♣ said:


> I'd say criss crossing the rear like that would make the tire wear flat like it should instead of having an bad angle that the camber would make.


Then why like Zen said do the manufacturers not recommend it? Why doesn't anyone else do it?


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

I'm actually kinda curious about these side specific tires now myself. Somebody post pics of the _inside/outside_ specification. Must be on a certain type of tire. I had Eagle G/As on my T/A, and to my knowledge those were not side specific, and at $160-$180 a pop, not very cheap either. This must be refering to autocross/track tires only, perhaps.....


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Then why like Zen said do the manufacturers not recommend it? Why doesn't anyone else do it?


Most normal cars have a camber angle close to zero, or maybe 1-2 degrees. _Camber_ is less of a tire wearing angle than _toe_, which can really screw up tread. The Z31 has issues in both departments.....


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Then why like Zen said do the manufacturers not recommend it? Why doesn't anyone else do it?



Well with not all cars it's probably not needed but I'm talking about cars with camber issues such as the Z.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣Zen31ZR♣ said:


> Most normal cars have a camber angle close to zero, or maybe 1-2 degrees. _Camber_ is less of a tire wearing angle than _toe_, which can really screw up tread. The Z31 has issues in both departments.....


hahaha I wasn't asking for you to answer it; more for AsleepZ to answer it.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣AsleepZ♣ said:


> Well with not all cars it's probably not needed but I'm talking about cars with camber issues such as the Z.


Which are? The fact that there isn't enough camber in the Z31?


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Which are? The fact that there isn't enough camber in the Z31?


I don't know what your asking here.

What do you want to know?

And the fact that "there isn't enough camber in the Z31" I hope was a joke because the rear end of the Z31 has serious camber issues.

EDIT : Your asking what exact cars have camber issues? Off hand I can't name any but when you get into it and look at the tire wear and how the car sits you can judge if you need to criss-cross or not.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

You said the Z31 had camber issues in your post, and that is why the tires wear like they do (according to you). The fact is the Z31 doesn't even have enough camber.

I was asking what are the camber issues with the Z. I want to know what you think because I am fairly sure you are off in bliss.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> You said the Z31 had camber issues in your post, and that is why the tires wear like they do (according to you). The fact is the Z31 doesn't even have enough camber.
> 
> I was asking what are the camber issues with the Z. I want to know what you think because I am fairly sure you are off in bliss.


The Z31 has camber issues in the back, weak springs and bad bushings cause that. Most stock Z31s have that problem, mostly because they haven't seen an alignment shop in 10 years or more, for people to find out this stuff needs to be replaced. 
My car had a damaged right front strut, due no doubt to rubbing on curbs a few too many times. That caused horrid tire wear and handling til I replaced the whole strut assembly.

Z31s may not have much camber in their perfectly stock 100% good condition, but the percentage of cars _in_ good condition is very low..... The few Z31s I see around town are in even worse shape than mine as far as weak rear springs. Plus, I cheated, mine used to sag a bit too, when I first got the car. But I changed that, and it's been fine for over a year....


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> You said the Z31 had camber issues in your post, and that is why the tires wear like they do (according to you). The fact is the Z31 doesn't even have enough camber.
> 
> I was asking what are the camber issues with the Z. I want to know what you think because I am fairly sure you are off in bliss.


My car has some pretty bad camber in the back. Sitting still it's probably a good -2 or -3 degrees. I know when I basically didn't have any shocks back there it was a lot worse though.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣AsleepZ♣ said:


> My car has some pretty bad camber in the back. Sitting still it's probably a good -2 or -3 degrees. I know when I basically didn't have any shocks back there it was a lot worse though.


Then your bushings are possibly bad. There isn't alot of camber in the Z31 (especially the front). I am not talking about bad condition Z31s.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Dude, what are you talking about.........nissanforum.com high intensity discharge pro? 


Your Z has 2-3 degrees negative camber with stock springs and how many miles? Mine with suspension tech springs and old bushings is only at 1.2



was this thread resolved with the whole directional tire thing.........Im sorry im late but I couldve cleared this up real quick......from everything I read Jamesz is exactly correct......need I not have to copy a simple bridgestone brochure from work explaining everything he just said........you dont criss cross directional tires....are you mad?


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> Dude, what are you talking about.........nissanforum.com high intensity discharge pro?
> 
> 
> Your Z has 2-3 degrees negative camber with stock springs and how many miles? Mine with suspension tech springs and old bushings is only at 1.2
> ...


If that's what it takes to actually show some proof. Yes, copy away.

I haven't checked out the condition of the rear suspension, but my car probably has around 150K miles on it. Since my odometer stopped working sometime last year it's been showing about 1 mile per 20 or so. I'm sure there is a lot to be replaced in the rear end suspension wise because I have some serious camber issues back there.

Now the front of my Z is fine. Though I didn't get the measurements they set it to up front the last time I got an alignment it looks good.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣AsleepZ♣ said:


> If that's what it takes to actually show some proof. Yes, copy away.
> 
> I haven't checked out the condition of the rear suspension, but my car probably has around 150K miles on it. Since my odometer stopped working sometime last year it's been showing about 1 mile per 20 or so. I'm sure there is a lot to be replaced in the rear end suspension wise because I have some serious camber issues back there.
> 
> Now the front of my Z is fine. Though I didn't get the measurements they set it to up front the last time I got an alignment it looks good.


If you have that much camber your bushings are dead. You should barely have any camber up front that is one of the biggest short comings of the Z31s suspension. If you think the semi-rear trailing arm suspension is bad the front is far worse with the lack of camber. If your camber is really that bad I suggest going through and replacing all the bushings.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> I am not talking about bad condition Z31s.


 I was, however. You can't deny most Zs suspensions are in bad condition, and this causes excessive camber.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

All these BS replies, and yet still not one single pic of any proof of what anyone is talking about with this side specific BS. Next post I wanna see is a pic, or the thread will be locked and deleted. This has gone on long enough.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> If you have that much camber your bushings are dead. You should barely have any camber up front that is one of the biggest short comings of the Z31s suspension. If you think the semi-rear trailing arm suspension is bad the front is far worse with the lack of camber. If your camber is really that bad I suggest going through and replacing all the bushings.


I'll have to check into that soon, thanks for the info.

Got any suggestions of what new bushings I should use?


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣AsleepZ♣ said:


> I'll have to check into that soon, thanks for the info.
> 
> Got any suggestions of what new bushings I should use?


Go to Motorsport Auto and get the polyurethane bushing kit. 

As for pics I would but the car is three hours away. Todd can post the pics sooner then I can since he will be at work sooner then I will be able to take pics.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> Go to Motorsport Auto and get the polyurethane bushing kit.


I'll check it out. On a difficulty rating of 0-10 what is it and about how long would it take to do.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

♣AsleepZ♣ said:


> I'll check it out. On a difficulty rating of 0-10 what is it and about how long would it take to do.


It is a pain in the ass to put it nicely. Not the most difficult thing persay but VERY VERY time consuming.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

♣Zen31ZR♣ said:


> All these BS replies, and yet still not one single pic of any proof of what anyone is talking about with this side specific BS. Next post I wanna see is a pic, or the thread will be locked and deleted. This has gone on long enough.


This thread went on for 4 more posts without a picture...........lock it and delete it.....this thread is ridiculous




Here is a link that couldve prevented all of the b.s.ing and Asleepz's confusion

http://www.familycar.com/CarCare/TireRotation.htm


read the warning at the bottom, its states very clearly that directionals shouldnt switch sides..


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> This thread went on for 4 more posts without a picture...........lock it and delete it.....this thread is ridiculous
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That specifically talks about FWD cars.... It also says nothing about side specific tires, and only mentions Aquatreads as a tire being directional specific. Not only was the question not answered, you couldn't even post the proper drivetrain.....  This thread is closed. 12 hours to deletion.


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