# Problem with Engine Idle Speed - Unstable.



## X-Trailer (Nov 19, 2004)

Hello !

This is my first posting on your message board. I bought my X-Trail SE AWD automatic in late October 2004 & love it. It now has over 6000 km & has been great. I live in the GTA & have been following your discussions since last summer - very helpful. Within the past few weeks I have developed my first problem:

With a warm start (car has been driven earlier that day), the engine idle speed seems to start normally, & then suddenly slows down as if the car may stall & die. It has never stalled however (it speeds up within a couple of seconds). This never happens when stopped at a red light, nor with a cold start (first start of the morning). It even happens when all the electrical options are shut off (radio, heater & heated seats). Has any one else noticed this problem? 

Would this be due to a problem with the EGR valve or throttle body? Would it be a simple warranty repair for the Nissan dealership? I hope it's not a sign of more serious problems!

Any advice or comments would be much appreciated. Best regards. Thanks!


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

I would say it's either a dirty throttle body or your ECU may require some tuning-up.

It could also be attributed to a bad batch of fuel.

I had a similar problem with mine, but it used to do it in the morning start-up run and afternoon (on the way back home from work). The engine would start from a 2nd or 3rd attempt, run for about 5 seconds, then die. As the car moves, everything goes back to normal.

Took it to the dealership and they had to take the throttle body out of the car to clean it (this how dirty it was), they also upgraded my ECU vesrion at the same time (this is not required in your case, as your exy is new and will have the latest ECU version anyway)

Not covered by warranty.


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

Check the MAF sensor and the throttle body. I had both replaced on mine for the same problem.


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## ejm (Nov 14, 2004)

Hi Everyone

Question for X-Trailer
You described this problem:

"With a warm start (car has been driven earlier that day), the engine idle speed seems to start normally, & then suddenly slows down as if the car may stall & die. It has never stalled however (it speeds up within a couple of seconds). This never happens when stopped at a red light, nor with a cold start (first start of the morning). It even happens when all the electrical options are shut off (radio, heater & heated seats). Has any one else noticed this problem? "

I have about 11,500km on my X-Trail and have had this same thing happen to my vehicle. I am wondering if you have had this problem solved?

Thanks for any help
Ed M


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

We would have to see the follow up from "X-Trailer" if he went to the dealer and what was their finding?

(at one point the sentra 2.5L engine had a problem with the crank shaft position sensor giving unstable idle speeds, but then again that was fixed last year...?)


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

You may also get your idle reset at the dealer via Consult II.


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## Thinspirits (Aug 3, 2004)

Hi, I am at 16500km and I noticed the same thing happening today. Has anyone had any more problems?


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## manuelga (Dec 14, 2003)

I got the problem, just warm starts & it's increasing a little bit, just got 4,500kms. 

The problem started during +/- cold weather (~10°C) & continues now at warmer conditions (~25°C). 

Always 91 Octanes Gas & got Syntetic oil. 

I guess dirty throttle body don't apply to my X-Ty cause it still smell like new. 

Let's see what dealership guys tell, I'll refer to: 

MAF problems 
Throttle Body 
Crankshaft Position Sensor 
ECU tuning 
& a Voodoo Spell


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

manuelga said:


> I guess dirty throttle body don't apply to my X-Ty cause it still smell like new.


I changed out my throttle body when I hit 6500Ks and it already had an oil deposit (sludge) around the plate. In fact it's a common problem known by dealers and they often are replaced without hiccups.


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## Ynott (Sep 9, 2004)

I assume these fixes are done free under warranty ? Mine does the same thing once in a blue moon. I'm due for 18000 km oil change, so I'll mention it.


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## X-Trailer (Nov 19, 2004)

Ynott said:


> I assume these fixes are done free under warranty ? Mine does the same thing once in a blue moon. I'm due for 18000 km oil change, so I'll mention it.


 Hi Everyone.

I originally posted my problem with the engine idle speed back on March 15th. I still have the same difficulty on warm start-ups only. It's not getting any worse (or better). I have been waiting until my next oil change to have this problem repaired by the dealer. That should be in about one week from now. Sorry I don't have a diagnosis & fix for it yet. I will keep you posted! 

If anyone else with this problem has it solved earlier on, I would love to know the solution. 

Best Regards to Everyone! Carl.


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## jww (Apr 22, 2005)

X-Trailer said:


> Hi Everyone.
> 
> I originally posted my problem with the engine idle speed back on March 15th. I still have the same difficulty on warm start-ups only. It's not getting any worse (or better). I have been waiting until my next oil change to have this problem repaired by the dealer.


I have an 02 Altima with the same 2.5L engine, and have had this same problem repeatedly since I first got my vehicle almost 3 years ago. I now have 76Km on the clock and have asked the dealer on several occassions to fix this. They simply have been unable to come up with a solution - in fact, claim that they can't even re-create the problem. I have a 100K 4yr extended warranty. This is a big bug-a-boo for me - I chose the 2.5 4cyl because of the timing chain instead of belt, but have found the idling speed very disconcerting.

Cheers. ....jww


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## X-Trailer (Nov 19, 2004)

jww said:


> I have an 02 Altima with the same 2.5L engine, and have had this same problem repeatedly since I first got my vehicle almost 3 years ago. I now have 76Km on the clock and have asked the dealer on several occassions to fix this. They simply have been unable to come up with a solution - in fact, claim that they can't even re-create the problem. I have a 100K 4yr extended warranty. This is a big bug-a-boo for me - I chose the 2.5 4cyl because of the timing chain instead of belt, but have found the idling speed very disconcerting.
> 
> Cheers. ....jww



Hi Everyone. Regarding my problem with an unstable engine idle speed at warm start-up (see my 2 previous posts):

I brought my X-Trail SE AWD AT into the dealership recently, with approx. 9500 km. on it. With many start-ups, they said they were only able to reproduce the problem once - however I still have this happening to me now, even with the warmer weather, approx. 75% of the time. In fact, the engine has stalled & died about 4 times in the past couple of months (again, never on a cold start-up). 

The written report (on the workorder) from Alta Nissan stated: "DE96AA Idle Air Volume Learning Procedure. 80 WS. FC: AF32. Part #: 161198E013. Claim Type: PP." There was no charge for this (vehicle is 7 months old). The service advisor asked the Parts Dept. for the code for the throttle body. I asked her whether they had changed the throttle body - she said no.

Guess What! The servicing has NOT HELPED AT ALL! It still does the same thing. Am I starting the engine incorrectly? I believe you just turn the key without pressing on the gas pedal (fuel injected, no carburetor). 

Does anyone have any advice? Has anyone with the same problem found the solution yet? Would another visit to the dealership accomplish anything? Any comments would be much appreciated. 

Best regards. Carl.


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## aussietrail (Sep 24, 2004)

Hi Carl,

Ask your nissan dealer to refer to THIS Australian X-Trail recall that took place back in 2004, maybe you're having the same symptoms.

Just a thought.


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

*crank shaft position sensor*

That's what I suggested in post No 5 above.
Have them check the "crank shaft position sensor". Maybe...


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## up_north (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm having the same problems with the idles after the warm starts. The dealer didn't notice the problem when I asked them to check it during the last service. Hopefully this won't be a continuing problem, but I really don't know what else to do.


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## up_north (Jun 1, 2005)

Any new info on this? My problem seems to be getting worse. The dealer doesn't seem to be able to find the problem.


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## chansen (Feb 7, 2005)

9K on ours, and we've not seen this problem on warm or cold starts. Hope your dealerships can pin this one down for you.


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## X-Trailer (Nov 19, 2004)

up_north said:


> Any new info on this? My problem seems to be getting worse. The dealer doesn't seem to be able to find the problem.



Hello Up North.

I was having the same problem as you are - unstable engine idle speed on warm start-ups only. See my posts in March, April & May. In my last message May 29th, I mentioned what the dealership did to try & remedy the problem - an Idle Air Volume Learning Procedure. Initially, I didn't see any improvement at all, but over the next week or two it seemed to gradually improve. I'm still not sure whether they helped the situation. Could it have been the warmer weather in May? Do engines idle more smoothly in the summer versus winter? However, you feel that your idle is now getting worse, so the warmer temperatures do not seem to be helping you out! This makes me think that their adjustment did help significantly, but it takes a week or two to see the improvement.

At the present time, the engine starts normally, then the idle speed still slows down for 1 or 2 seconds, before speeding up again. However, in contrast to before, the drop in idle speed now is not as sudden or as marked, & the engine doesn't shudder, as if it may stall. In fact, it hasn't stalled since the servicing was done. So it's not perfect, but alot better.

Ask your service department if they could try this Idle Air Volume Learning Procedure.

Good Luck! Best Regards. Carl.


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## up_north (Jun 1, 2005)

Thanks Carl.

I will definitely try to have the same thing done during my next servicing. I just had the 30K service performed, and the service dept didn't notice the problem (and they hadn't heard of any problems with other x-trail owners).


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## TjC (Jun 11, 2005)

well i just rolled over 6000kms

and ive just started to notice the same thing???

whats up its still new it shouldnt be crapping out on me so soon :thumbdwn:


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## Hagtex (Jul 9, 2004)

*Engine Stall*

There is an article regarding to engine stall!

http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/r...7&modelName=X-Trail&makeName=Nissan&makeId=D0


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## Thinspirits (Aug 3, 2004)

*Update*

Hey Guys,

I got a "Check Engine Soon" light this weekend - and decided to bring in my car this mornning. I mentioned to them about the almost stalling on the warm weather starts.

Well... I just got a call back right now and they told me that the Engline light came on because I have a faulty O2 sensor. HMMMM. And they said that they dont want to do the engine test until they change the o2 sensor.

ANYWAYS... she told me that the sensors are on backorder from Japan, and they wont be here for another 2 weeks. Luckily it is part of warranty.

So as of now I have to drive around with the Check engine light on.

I will post an update when they finally get a round to changing the sensor - maybe it will help.

Oh and im at 22,000Kms


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

*O2 sensor*

You poor Thinspirit !
And I mean this honestly.


If this O2 sensor is back order than it is probably part # 22690 8J 001.
(identified as HOS1 = heated oxygen sensor 1).

And if that is the case my dealer took 3 weeks and unfortunately had no response on due date from Japan!

In the end, I had to get help from my good friend *"Manuelga"* who found the part in Mexico and FedEx it to me in Montreal.











Check my story below:
http://www.nissanforums.com/showthread.php?t=87400

This was last spring, I truly hope these are now more readily available...


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## Oreo (Nov 5, 2004)

I have 33,500km on my X-Trail and haven't noticed any problems. I idle my vehicle for extended lengths of time (when the dogs come with me and it is warm out) and haven't had a problem as of yet. If I do I will let you know, I am going in for an oil change very soon and will ask my dealer.

Greg



X-Trailer said:


> Hi Everyone. Regarding my problem with an unstable engine idle speed at warm start-up (see my 2 previous posts):
> 
> I brought my X-Trail SE AWD AT into the dealership recently, with approx. 9500 km. on it. With many start-ups, they said they were only able to reproduce the problem once - however I still have this happening to me now, even with the warmer weather, approx. 75% of the time. In fact, the engine has stalled & died about 4 times in the past couple of months (again, never on a cold start-up).
> 
> ...


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## ejm (Nov 14, 2004)

*Unstable idle*

Has any one had a solution to this problem?


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## driftking (Aug 7, 2005)

*Waoo....*

It's interesting to see that nissan made a recall in my country 2 years ago, 1 month after they started selling the exy.

They replaced all throttle bodies because the TPS was broken, mine was replaced at 5,000kms.

The problem with mine was that the rpm would go to 300~ rpm and then go normal, when this happened there was a lot of vibration inside of the car....


You may suggest doing this to your dealer..


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## Terranismo (Aug 31, 2004)

From what I've seen at the dealer, this may be caused by a dirty throttle body or damaged MAF. The throttle body becomes clogged with oil over time, thanks to constant "splashing" from the valve cover to the intake manifold. I installed an oil catch can on my X and you can really see how much oil goes into the valve cover, mainly because of the thin head gasket material between cilinders #2 and #3. The hoses are transparent, and in less than a few weeks they were already coated with a film of oil.


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## KevinG46 (Jun 9, 2009)

*REVs drop on Warm Start - 2006 LE*

Hello,

I see that there has not been any activity on this thread for some time but as it relates exactly to my problem I thought that I would try a post and see if there was anything else I could learn that will help me with my dealer.

I have a 2006 X-Trail LE with approx. 44,000 KM. After the 42,000 servicing at my dealers, I noticed that with a warm start the revs drop to almost a stall and then recover. It then seems to run fine. This was not an issue before the servicing.
It also appears to be progressing in that it will now ocassionally stall. It restarts OK and appears to run normally.

The dealer did a computer scan but there were no error codes. They also checked for a service bulletin on this type of problem but could not find anything outstanding. They seem to have restricted their search to 2005 & 2006 model years.

The Aussie forum is fantastic and does discuss this issue but seemingly with older model years. 

Any ideas on what is causing this or what the dealer might have done during the service to start this problem will be much appreciated. 

KG


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## tbk (Dec 29, 2008)

I had this exact symptom on my mazda a couple years ago and it was the egr valve corroding an sticking. But there was a second symptom that when driving at steady speeds the car would seem to hesitate and then speed back up. But it was so minor sometimes I would question if it happened at all. It is very subtle. But the idle dip is very obvious.


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## KevinG46 (Jun 9, 2009)

tbk said:


> I had this exact symptom on my mazda a couple years ago and it was the egr valve corroding an sticking. But there was a second symptom that when driving at steady speeds the car would seem to hesitate and then speed back up. But it was so minor sometimes I would question if it happened at all. It is very subtle. But the idle dip is very obvious.


Thanks. That is good to know. 

The dealer has requested the X-Trail for the day tomorrow. They appear to have done some research on this problem. I did send them the link to this and the Aussie site to aid their research.


They want to look at the Throttle body and ECM programming. I will mention the EGR valve and the Mass Air sensor which was also referenced in this thread. 

I will pass back the results.

Lucky for me that I am between contracts and have the time otherwise this process would be a royal pain. 

KG


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## KevinG46 (Jun 9, 2009)

KevinG46 said:


> Thanks. That is good to know.
> 
> The dealer has requested the X-Trail for the day tomorrow. They appear to have done some research on this problem. I did send them the link to this and the Aussie site to aid their research.
> 
> ...


June 10 - Update

Tomorrow, the dealer (Alta Nissan - Richmond Hill) is replacing the Throttle body under warranty. Will run it for a while and report back next week.
I must admit that so far they have provided very good service. 

KG


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## KevinG46 (Jun 9, 2009)

KevinG46 said:


> June 10 - Update
> 
> Tomorrow, the dealer (Alta Nissan - Richmond Hill) is replacing the Throttle body under warranty. Will run it for a while and report back next week.
> I must admit that so far they have provided very good service.
> ...


Update June 20/09

Looks like the problem is fixed. Here is what they did. This was all warranty work.

First visit
1. replaced throttle body with a refurbished one.
2. problem not corrected but acceleration was improved.

Next visit.
1. redid Idle Learning process on ECM. This appears to have fixed it. Supposedly they did this on the first visit but apparently not as I had to return for another visit. They mentioned something about having entered the wrong procedure code on the first work order.


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## SifToN (Oct 2, 2009)

Hello
I'm going through this as well. The engine relearn was suggested when I mentioned at the dealer how the engine was reving high at red lights. Had the relearn done on Monday. When I picked up the truck that evening, upon letting go of the key on ignition the engine stopped. THis happened 3 more times. Today I brought it in and they told me the Throttle body needs to be changed at $242. Will have it done on my next visit to the dealer, Just hope it settles this issue for good.


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## ValBoo (May 19, 2003)

...from your last post I hope that the proper inspection and procedures were done before goig ahead with changing the hrottle body.

Was it a reputable dealer? (please don't be affraid to provide name of dealer)


...For those who may have similar problems just note that needing to change the throttle body is not always the primary reason for this type of problems.

I had this same problem on a long trip away from home. And I had to manually enter the diagnostic mode to fix the problem myself (this was a couple of years ago and no problem since).
It took me a while but eventualy (with help from stop watch and sitting in the driveway) got through the 3 basic setup procedures that resolved my problem:

1) accelerator pedal released position learning
2) throttle valve closed position learning
and last but not least
3) Idle air volume learning.


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## SifToN (Oct 2, 2009)

Hello Valboo. 
I went to Park Avenue Nissan in Brossard. I read elsewhere in this forum that some people clean the throttle bodies, so is replacing it really necessary?


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## KLL (Dec 2, 2005)

i have an xtrail with qr20de engine. i faced same problem during summer. suddenly car start ot act weird, idling was not stable, and it was getting worse day by day, in the end it start to stall when i stop on light. car is automatic. then i could smell the a bad unburnt gasoline smell at exhaust. but car was ok when engine was cold. when it gets warmer it was getting worse. consumption was high.

i removed firs o2 sensor and found that its tip was broken!
I searched for nissan spares, it was too expensive. i checked for bosch and found universal lambda sensor. i bought it for aprox 100 usd. installed and connected its wires according to colors of original one. reset ecu, then everything returned back to normal.

if there problem is worst with warm engine, if there is bad smell at back, if it is intermitently stalling, that is o2 sensor.(because o2 sensors start to work when they are warm.)

but, maf sensor is directly related to engine management so it is better to check for maf fault codes ona obd scanner.


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## fietri (Jul 29, 2015)

ValBoo said:


> ...from your last post I hope that the proper inspection and procedures were done before goig ahead with changing the hrottle body.
> 
> Was it a reputable dealer? (please don't be affraid to provide name of dealer)
> 
> ...


sir can i know how to do the 3 basic setup?


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## bnjsv (Apr 12, 2016)

Hi, Today I repaired my Nissan N16 due to idle rpm issue and sudden engine stalling. 
My advise is to change Cam and Crank shaft sensors first. Both cost around AU$100. Mine is ok now.
If that does not work, then go for throttle control motor AU$ 200 and Probably ECU AU$410.
This issue is common in N16 and XTRAIL.
Just wanted to share this because I struggled a lot to find a cure for this issue.


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## Nissandriver2016 (Jul 1, 2016)

Hello I have a Xtrail 2.5 2003 petrol manual code is QR25DE will any other engine fit in it as on Wikipedia it says other nissans use the same engine, does it have to be a 2.5 or can I put a 2.0 /2.2 in?


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## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

You should start a new thread specific to your question. If money is no object I am sure it could be done, but for a 2003 its probably cheaper to sell yours and find one with the engine you are looking for assuming it was ever sold in your market.


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