# Headgasket problem?



## OverrRyde (Oct 16, 2010)

Still looking for some help and almost narrowing it down!

My car was dying and shaking, change both cam/crankshaft sensor, no more dying or hard to turn on.

Changed all ignition coils and spark plugs. All coils are sparking (did arc test).

Now im getting p0303 which is cylinder 3 misfire. It is intermittent. I get shaking/rough idle only when at a stop or red light/park or neutral. Once i gas it, the skaing goes away above 2500 RPM.

By searching, some are saying this is a blown headgasket. I am not noticing any white smoke from either the engine or the exhaust. When i removed the spark plug from cylinder 3, did not appear to have any coolant on them. Engine is not overheating either.

Could this be right, blown headgasket? How can i know without taking the head apart? If it turns out it is, do i only change the headgasket or other gaskets? Is there a how to as i want to do this myself it its not too hard.

The exhaust manifold gasket was actually recently changed as i replaced the exhaust manifold/pre cat about 1 month ago.

Thanks guys, any help appreciated! 

UPDATE #1 : when at idle, it pretty rough and almost feels like the car is jumping/skipping a beat or something, feels like i wants to shut off but it doesnt. Once i accelerate, the shaking goes away.

UPDATE #2 : Toped off the coolant return yesterday to max and this morning just went to check and it is empty again...

Starting to have the impression that it is a blown headgasket...


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## Nickaltima (Jan 11, 2008)

i just had a similar problem..sheck your intake manifold gaskets..let it idle and get some starting fluid and spray a lil around the intake manifold by the gasket..this is how i found mine was leaking and giving me a p0300 code..if its leaking the starting fluid will make the engine idle go up a little..mine would idle horrible in park and the misfire was so bad it would make the ses light blink at me..i took it off got a new gasket and made sure i found the torque specs which is 15/ft lbs according to a nissan tech and it should take care of your prob..and if you can do it yourself youll save about 7 or 800 bucks..if you have a blown head gasket the oil lever would rise really high if your loosing that much coolant into the motor and you would 100% have thick white smoke comin out of the exhaust


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## Nickaltima (Jan 11, 2008)

i also forgot. and as far as the coolant vanishing...you might have been low to begin with just keep adding it and see if it holds it eventually..you could have a leak somewhere..water pump..hose something like that


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## OverrRyde (Oct 16, 2010)

Hi Nickaltima,

Thanks for the info. I can tell you that i definetly don't get any white smoke or overheating. My idle does jump up and down when idling at red light, but when i start the car after ahile of beeing off, such as overnight, the car idles just fine for the first 5 minutes maybe, then it starts to jump around and jerking. The jerking does stop once im on the highway at higher speeds.

Im not to sure i understand the process with the starting fluid (starter fluid?) Could you elaborate for me a bit? (keep im mind, not much of a mechanic myself so bare with me!)

Thanks!


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## Nickaltima (Jan 11, 2008)

OverrRyde said:


> Hi Nickaltima,
> .
> 
> Im not to sure i understand the process with the starting fluid (starter fluid?) Could you elaborate for me a bit? (keep im mind, not much of a mechanic myself so bare with me!)
> ...


its so easy to do..and yes u need starting fluid so if you have a leak when you hit it the car will change idle b.c of the starting fluid..you just take the can and give little squirts all along the intake manifold where it bolts to the lower intake manifold and listen for idle change..is this 2.5 or 3.5?


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## OverrRyde (Oct 16, 2010)

It's a 2.5.

Just came back from walmart an got some Gunk brand quick starting fluid.

I also checked my return tank for coolant and it is still at MAX level after driving about 30KM since i filled it. Just waiting to return home tonight from the office to put on the same distance from yesterday when the tank emptied.

I guess this is a good sign! Hoping for the best!


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## Nickaltima (Jan 11, 2008)

that brand will work fine..now just when you get a chance pop the hood and you may have to remove a plastic engine cover like the one that says 2.5 blah blah blah..and you take the starting fluid and squirt it on the bottom of the upper intake manifold where the bolts are all the way around every part you can see and if the engine rpm's go up or change when you do it you have a leak if you dont know what the manifold looks like its right on the top of the motor in the middle google it for a pic too..if thats not it you could need new plugs..new coil(s) new cam position snesor or crank sensor..possibly the start of a catalitic converter breaking down on you(2.5 have a MAJOR issue with that) and its expensive to take in so i hope it isnt that..or you could have a sensor problem..as far as the coolant see i told u you might have just been low..so if you have any questions feel free to ask me or PM me and ill give you my phone number you can call me and i can walk you through the starting fluid process lol good luck..o also try running a good fuel system cleaner through like chevron techron or idk if you have K100g where you live but you could have a clogged injector or a fuel pump starting to die..but do the starting fluid thing first b4 replacing parts..good luck


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## OverrRyde (Oct 16, 2010)

Thanks a lot Nick!

As far as all you mentionned, i can rule all of it out. Here's the list of what has been done so far:

-New exhaust mani with pre cat
-new cat 
-o2 sensor
-crankshaft and cam shaft sensors
-new belt
-new coils
-new spark plugs

So thats pretty much all you mentionned for the expensive part! And trust me, it was expensive! lol Luckily i was able to change the crank and camshaft sensors on my own (first time getting my hands in an engine), i used a write up that here somewhere. it was a PITA to change the CKS! Once that was done, i got rid of all the code and that's when it started throwing 0303.

Thanks again alot! Ill be doing the starter fluid test tomorow afternoon and will update as i go through!


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## Nickaltima (Jan 11, 2008)

p0303 is a missfire in cylinder 3


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## OverrRyde (Oct 16, 2010)

Nick, looking at the service manual, do i spray only on the top part of the intake mani? what if there was a leak in the lower part of it or on the throttle body?

yeah p0303 is misfire, can it be caused by a leak in the intake mani?


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

If I can throw my 2 cents in here...
I'm not so sure I'd be using starting fluid to do this...if I was a mechanical newb and such. Maybe get some WD40 or some carb cleaner. Quite a bit less flammable, the change in rpm won't be as large, but it will be far less likely to blow up in your face. I'm not saying you won't be careful or anything like that, but if you don't know or aren't sure what and/or where you're spraying, you could end up with one less eyebrow than normal!
Spraying - yes, spray all over, a little at a time, listen to the engine, watch the rpm for a noticeable AND REPEATABLE change when you spray.
P0303 - Problem with a specific misfire code with the "older" ECUs is that they're making a rough guess. The newer ECUs with high res crank angle sensors, multiple O2 sensors, and faster processors are much more accurate at guessing these types of codes. The "older" ECUs like yours will likely set a specific cylinder misfire code based on electrical activity of the coils/plugs/etc, but can easily be tripped up by vacuum leaks causing lean misfires. I'm surprised you don't have any other codes (i.e. rich mixture, etc).
Run a compression check on #3, compare it to the other cylinders.
Pull the plugs, clean them off, put them back in, take it for a run down the highway, let the engine cool off, pull the plugs again and see what #3 looks like compared to the other ones.
A bad injector is another good possibility as mentioned in post #7, then again, could also be the injector driver in the ECU. Maybe swap #3 with another cylinder's injector and see if anything changes.
Lots of possibilities here...that's kinda what sucks...


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## Nickaltima (Jan 11, 2008)

jdgrotte said:


> If I can throw my 2 cents in here...
> I'm not so sure I'd be using starting fluid to do this...if I was a mechanical newb and such. Maybe get some WD40 or some carb cleaner. Quite a bit less flammable, the change in rpm won't be as large, but it will be far less likely to blow up in your face. I'm not saying you won't be careful or anything like that, but if you don't know or aren't sure what and/or where you're spraying, you could end up with one less eyebrow than normal!
> Spraying - yes, spray all over, a little at a time, listen to the engine, watch the rpm for a noticeable AND REPEATABLE change when you spray.
> P0303 - Problem with a specific misfire code with the "older" ECUs is that they're making a rough guess. The newer ECUs with high res crank angle sensors, multiple O2 sensors, and faster processors are much more accurate at guessing these types of codes. The "older" ECUs like yours will likely set a specific cylinder misfire code based on electrical activity of the coils/plugs/etc, but can easily be tripped up by vacuum leaks causing lean misfires. I'm surprised you don't have any other codes (i.e. rich mixture, etc).
> ...


i just had to go through this guessing game myself man so i know what im talking about..there is nothing even remotely close to the mani that could start a fire..my intake gasket was leaking causing a p0300 code so if hes getting a p0303 code its not that bad..just use the starting fluid and be careful and youll be fine..and yes spray all parts of the throttle body too for leaks just dont get it close to the throttle plate cause it might get sucked in and cause it to go up in rpm and give u a false reading..and the starting fluid is 100% needed i tried using carb cleaner and propane and i couldnt feel anything then switched to the starting fluid and found it instantly..but the only thing i agree with here is switching all number 3cyl stuff to another cyl and see if it moves the code..dont scare this guy and tell him its gonna b hard to find the problem..MY SITUATION WAS HARD when you get a random multiple missfire you have no idea what cylinder is malfunctioning at what time..I WISH i could have been so lucky as to have a specific code like that..again man good luck and pm or ask questions to whoever YOU trust


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

There is hot exhaust pipes floating around in there ya know! 
I'm just thinking if there's a coil that's arcing to ground or something like that, hey, could light up at a bad time. Ya never know.
As far as starting fluid vs. carb cleaner/WD40/propane/etc, I've never had to use starting fluid. I've always gotten results with other stuff (i.e. a wee bit less flammable). Not saying I wouldn't use it...*I* would. But for the guy that maybe doesn't know his way around an engine as well as the rest of us, maybe the starting fluid ain't such a good idea at first.
A quick thought...pop the #3 plug wire off while it's misfiring (might want to put on a pair of gloves when you do this! ZAP!) and see if the engine runs any different. Runs the same, #3 is the likely problem; runs worse, #3 isn't the likely problem.


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## OverrRyde (Oct 16, 2010)

Thanks for the help guys. Here's what my plan of action is for today:

-Visual inspection of all spark plugs, cleaning if needed
-Leak test of the intake mani
-Compression test
-Possibly change/inspect injectors

Now, as far as the compression test is concerned, i am familiar with what to do and what it does, but not sure of the procedure itself. im lookup aroudn here for a write up but can't seem to find anything. Can you guys point in the right direction?

am i supose to remove all coils/spark plugs as i am doing? is there anything i need to disconnect prior to testing? what is the correct reading per cylinder im looking to get? is there a write up somewhere?! hehe

thanks!

EDIT: Nevermind! i found the procedure on doing compression test using FSM!

I think i might be documenting everything i will be doing from here on end with pictures and videos to help others out as some info is pretty hard to find!


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## Nickaltima (Jan 11, 2008)

OverrRyde said:


> Thanks for the help guys. Here's what my plan of action is for today:
> 
> -Visual inspection of all spark plugs, cleaning if needed
> -Leak test of the intake mani
> ...



your doing everything right..i wish more people were like you and posting everything and pictures and videos..but before you do all the other stuff..switch the #3 cylinder coil pack and fuel injector with another cylinder and see if the ses code moves to the new cylinder..just a easy test for those problems before doing all the other tests and see what happens if it dsnt change anything then proceed with the other test..our goal is to find the problem in the least amount of time and without spending a lot of money lol


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## Nickaltima (Jan 11, 2008)

jdgrotte said:


> There is hot exhaust pipes floating around in there ya know!
> problem.



there is no exhaust pipe even close to the intake manifold even more so on a 4cylinder if it was a 6cylinder like mine then the only chance of hitting a exhaust pipe is about 3 feet away and blocked by the motor and the angle the motor is at and firewall..id say theres more of a chance of someone dropping a zippo lighter where he is spraying than a exhaust pipe or exhaust manifold igniting this fluid..there is only 1 exhaust manifold and its on the front lower part of the motor nowhere near where he is testing


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

True, but there is still the matter of the hot air rising up from the pipes, not to mention that exhaust pipe has to route under the engine to the back somewhere.
Sounds like the guy is getting a handle on the problem at any rate...systematic, and best of all, the cheap stuff first. I was discussing this with a friend of mine this morning, and he went straight for the head-gasket too, leaning more towards a crack in the head...without doing something as simple as a compression check, or even the ol' "towel over the exhaust then smell it" trick.


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## OverrRyde (Oct 16, 2010)

Alright, so here's an update!

I perform a compression test and voltmeter test on fuel injector. I tried the leak test on the intake mani but i didnt hear any difference but only because i think i did not do it right. The spray from the starter fluid can was "V" shape and did not have the little nozzle that can of WD40 usually come with, so i don't believe it was done right. Also, as Nickaltima suggested, i was not able to switch the fuel injector to another cylinder as this seems to be harder than i expected as it looks like i have to remove the fuel rail and all but i am not there yet on my research. Plus some wire harness was in the way and was a little hard to remove the injector harness.

However, i got some picture of the parts in questions and made a video on how to perform a compression test, check it out.






Here are the pictures and let's see if this can shed some light on my problem:

Here is the spark plug from cylinder #1

















Here is the spark plug from cylinder #2

















Here is spark plug from cylinder #3 (This is the one with the missfire)

















Here is spark plug from cylinder #4

















Here are the inside of the coil chambers #1 to 4 - Notice how Cylinder #3 has more crap/oil in it around the little ring where the spark plug srews
















Notice this particular one

















And finally, the compression results #1 to 4
170








175








180








170









Now take a look at spark plug #3, there is some oil on it that i never noticed before, and this oil is located on the upper part of the plug and not on the lower part where it sparks in combustion chamber.

















So that is that! What can you tell me from the pics and particularly spark plug #3?

Thanks!


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## Nickaltima (Jan 11, 2008)

the oil is from leaky valve cover gasket spark plug ring gaskets...that might be your problem right there it could be getting into the coil pack and messing with the spark..call the dealer and get a whole valve cover gasket kit and make sure it comes with the plug gaskets..its a pretty easy DIY job


forgot to say this too..if you had oil on the last couple threads closer to where the plug goes into the cylinder than you would be leaning more toward blow by or weak piston rings..but the oil you see is from the gasket


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## OverrRyde (Oct 16, 2010)

Fair enough! Did you watch the video? The was a little burn mark on the coil pak of cylinder 3. Is this indication of anything?

edit: im looking online for the head gasket to get a price idea but none seem to come with the plug gaskets, one website even claims that this engine does not have those: http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/2005/nissan/altima/engine_mechanical/valve_cover_gasket.html

Also checked with my local part store and they only have the cover gasket. Is this strickly a dealer part?


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## jdg (Aug 27, 2009)

A tiny little mark like this?

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/attachments/f25/131663d1251317942-coil-pack-arcing-coil-bottom.jpg

Could be indicative of an arcing point which could cause a misfire. Doesn't take much of a hole to leak out 30,000+ volts of juice to ground. Same thing goes with plug wires themselves. Try this when you get a chance. Wait until it's dark outside, really really dark, no lights around. Open up the hood, fire up the engine, and look at the coil packs out of the corner of your eye. Don't look straight at them. Your eyes are a lot more sensitive to light in the corners. Watch for a bit of a blue halo (a corona) or outright sparking coming from around them. Same thing with the plug wires.

As far as the spark plug o-ring gaskets, if I remember right, the plug ring things come in the valve cover gasket kits.


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## OverrRyde (Oct 16, 2010)

No, not like that, its more noticeable, like a small line about 3-4cm long along the side of the coil. I'll take another picture tonight.

On a side note, i was trying to remove the wire harness that connects to the coil pack but its protected by a guide/plastic cover that i am unable to remove. I figure i have to remove this in order to remove the cover itself. Any insight?

Thanks!


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## Nickaltima (Jan 11, 2008)

its not the head gasket..its the valve cover gasket and spark plug tube gaskets your looking for..i would buy another coil pack that burn mark looks like its arching out there sometimes..like jdgrotte said is enough to cause a misfire..also even though your gettin proper voltage to the injector dsnt mean that its not clogged and not spraying like it should lol..im sure its not the problem tho..im guessing the coil pack after that video..did you switch the pack to another cylinder to see if the code follows or did you try an arch test for that coil? the motor is very strong so i dont believe your head gasket is bad and you havnt lost anymore coolant have you? and there isnt any white thick smoke coming out of the exhaust so your fine on the head gasket..try the above mentioned things and update us..good job on everything up to this point tho! at this rate youll find the problem
! and thanks for the thanks in the video lol!!!


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## OverrRyde (Oct 16, 2010)

Sorry, typo, i meant valve cover! Called the part store and they have the valve cover gasket but no plug ring gasket, they advised me to use gasket maker RTV (i think is what he said).

Where is this oil on the plug coming from anyway? I would think that if there was to be oil it would be on the tip of the plug where it sparks and not on the insulator or metal casing. If anything, would you not see oil on the walls of the where the coil goes and oil on the coil pack itself?

As far as changing the coil pack, yes, when i started getting p0303, i changed the pack and code remained. The pack does work as yes, i did do an arc test on all 4 coil packs. I did not do one yesterday however.

I have 2 coils i want to return to the store, 1 that seperated like in the vid and this one that has the burn, not sure if they will take them back... :-S

As far as the rest, yes, coolant level still the same, no white smoke.

PS: hey, for the thanks, NP! JDGrotte should have been on there too but i forgot! I will be making another video for the valve cover removal and replacement of gasket


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## sleepingaltima (Oct 20, 2010)

i had that issue with my 2002 altims 2.5sl and i was saved by my exhaust warranty cause according to abeloff's (The nissan dealership that diagnosed my car) my exhaust was the reason my headgasket blew and had so much damage to my engine so under the warranty covering my exhaust and my precat was also destroyed apparently but i kinda knew that when i replaced my o2 sensor, camshaft sensor, speed sensor and/or vss sensor (i think those are the same and im just confusing the 2) i threw 10 codes at once and my mass airflow sensor got shot too my o2 sensor was literally blown to pieces i have pics of it and it is insane the damage on that, and have you found any good manifolds with a precat delete and where do you put the o2 sensors afterwards? one in front of the rear cat and after the rearcat?


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## OverrRyde (Oct 16, 2010)

Sorry for the late update ive been away for a little while!

As far my valve cover, not done yet, had to put it off a bit due to unforseen circumstances. In the mean time however, driving home from work on tuesday, my SES light turned off and didnt come back on until the next day. I was still having the jerking system still. Will be changing the coil pack on #3 and doing the valve cover gasket shortly.

Sleepingaltima: we ended up getting dealer parts for the exhaust mani/pre cat/cat, it was pretty pricey, had to replace o2 sensor aswell (on pre cat)


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## nwykyankee21 (Apr 11, 2011)

OverrRyde, 
have you fixed the issue with your 2.5L? the reason i am asking is because i have the same problem. i am over seas and cant get parts as easy as most people. I am really eager if it is fixed.


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