# starting questions



## suditaki (Oct 31, 2007)

I have recently bought a 86z non turbo manual tranny, the people I bought it from had it sitting for about 2 years without a battery. They say it runs but when I try to start it the engine rotated but does not start and the security light blinks... does having the hood open affect this? if so how to avoid.:hal:


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## nickz3188 (Sep 27, 2007)

you should prob get rid of all the gas and put new gas in, 2 year old gas prob wont work too well, and the hood being open wont make a difference. u should prob change just about all the fluids after 2 years of just sitting


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## suditaki (Oct 31, 2007)

fluids are good but it wont even try to sputter something in the security system I think


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## nickz3188 (Sep 27, 2007)

unlock it from the outside and try it again


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## nickz3188 (Sep 27, 2007)

but the engine wouldnt rotate or anything if it was that, maybe something electrical, you gettin a spark at the plugs?


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## suditaki (Oct 31, 2007)

how do you check for spark at the plugs?


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## nickz3188 (Sep 27, 2007)

pull em out, reconnect the plug wire, and ground the the part that screws in, they make a tool for it that makes it really easy. then just watch the plug and see if it sparks


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## reddzx (Jun 22, 2006)

Be sure to hold the plug wire tightly. lol


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## suditaki (Oct 31, 2007)

Why a little shock across the heart is good for you, right? :givebeer:


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## thezman (Nov 3, 2007)

*yes the security will keep it from cranking, not keep it from rolling .....in most*

most models security kills the fire to engine not the starter its self not totally sure on this age nissan though............easy way to check spark without shocking the mess out of your self is to make a ground wire (just clip or tie a piece of wire [stripped end ofcourse] to any bolt that goes into the engine.) and check for spark at the distrubutor hold onto the insulated part lol. definately get rid of old gas, you can deal with the other fluids after you make the engine crank up and run.


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

thezman said:


> most models security kills the fire to engine not the starter its self not totally sure on this age nissan though............easy way to check spark without shocking the mess out of your self is to make a ground wire (just clip or tie a piece of wire [stripped end ofcourse] to any bolt that goes into the engine.) and check for spark at the distrubutor hold onto the insulated part lol. definately get rid of old gas, you can deal with the other fluids after you make the engine crank up and run.


cough *BS* cough.

Almost every alarm kills the signal to the starter. That means that the starter will not fire. It would be terrible if your alarm started malfunctioning while you were driving and killed the engine. Like, say when you were in the middle of turning left in a busy intersection.

If the starter is engaging and spinning the motor, then the alarm is not the problem. So no. Having the hood open (or any other part of the car) will not cause the engine not to start. It's something else.


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## suditaki (Oct 31, 2007)

Well Thursday I will be getting a new battery and a big bottle of starting fluid and then I will try to trouble shoot(or put several 38 rounds in the engine block)


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## thezman (Nov 3, 2007)

*LOL ok if you say so "cough BS cough"*

I've towed far to many cars that would roll but not crank because of the security system malfunctioning. The Cranking is a mechanical switch/linkage mechanism in the dash. It is far easier for manufacturer to interupt spark. Now aftermarket security systems are a whole different ball game. 

anyway in my 86 300zx NA until today the security fuse was missing from the fuse panel (driverside kickpanel) and my car cranks and runs just fine so you may try that on yours pull the security fuse, as best as i can discover the only thing that does is make the little security light on the dash blink.


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

thezman said:


> I've towed far to many cars that would roll but not crank because of the security system malfunctioning. The Cranking is a mechanical switch/linkage mechanism in the dash. It is far easier for manufacturer to interupt spark. Now aftermarket security systems are a whole different ball game.


What the hell does rolling and cranking have to do with each other? Rolling a car around doesn't require the motor. It just requires the brakes be off.
And what does towing have to do with either of that? You don't even need to start the car to tow it.
How is interrupting one signal different from interrupting another signal? It's still one wire to "cut".

And NO! You ARE WRONG! GO out to ANY car out there and try something. Set off the alarm and try to start the car. Note that almost no car around will engage the starter. 

ESPECIALLY don't challenge me on how the Z31 alarm works. I'm VERY familiar with a WORKING Z31 alarm. All of mine have perfectly functioning stock alarms. One of them also has a perfectly functioning AFTERMARKET alarm that I installed. And part of the installation was interrupting the starter signal wire that went from the ignition key to the starter.

Now there are (or at least, there were) a couple aftermarket alarms that would allow you to start the car and it would run for a few seconds. Just long enough to get the car out of a parking spot and into the middle of traffic. At that point, it would turn off and you wouldn't be able to start the car again. It was designed to attract attention to the person attempting to steal it. I always thought it was a stupid idea.


thezman said:


> anyway in my 86 300zx NA until today the security fuse was missing from the fuse panel (driverside kickpanel) and my car cranks and runs just fine so you may try that on yours pull the security fuse, as best as i can discover the only thing that does is make the little security light on the dash blink.


And here we have a sign of how you don't know what the hell is going on with the stock alarm. Thank you for letting us know that you should not be giving advice on this subject. With the fuse pulled, the factory alarm does not activate, arm, or do anything but take up space.

Read:
ZBUM's New Z31 Homepage


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## suditaki (Oct 31, 2007)

If you two want to start a fight take it out side and leave the rest of us out of it will ya?


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

suditaki said:


> If you two want to start a fight take it out side and leave the rest of us out of it will ya?



Big second!


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

suditaki said:


> If you two want to start a fight take it out side and leave the rest of us out of it will ya?


Hey, if you want to read bad, stupid, wrong information, then I should just not post, is that what you're saying?


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## suditaki (Oct 31, 2007)

AZ-ZBum said:


> Hey, if you want to read bad, stupid, wrong information, then I should just not post, is that what you're saying?


I think we need a special forum for him and thezman to take out their aggression. And im not saying anyones information is wrong because I don't know if it is or not, its just you two fighting over whos information is.


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

AZ-ZBum said:


> Hey, if you want to read bad, stupid, wrong information, then I should just not post, is that what you're saying?


There is a difference between a debate and flaming and should know better.


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

You think that was flaming? WOW!

And since I pointed out from zman's own admission that he doesn't know anything about the Z31's alarm, I think it should be pretty simple to see just whose information is correct and who doesn't know what they're talking about with regard to this subject.

The main point is that if the car is cranking, then the problem IS NOT THE ALARM. Look elsewhere. Try the fuel pump, fuel filter, check fuel pressure, etc.


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## thezman (Nov 3, 2007)

*try not to make an ass of yourself AZ-ZBum*



AZ-ZBum said:


> What the hell does rolling and cranking have to do with each other? Rolling a car around doesn't require the motor. It just requires the brakes be off.
> And what does towing have to do with either of that? You don't even need to start the car to tow it.
> How is interrupting one signal different from interrupting another signal? It's still one wire to "cut".
> 
> ...


ok so if his alarm is the problem removing the fuse to the alarm would disable the security system allowing the car to operate normally. Doing so would identify a definate problem area for repair and at the same time get the car back on the road until such time as he can get ti properly repaired? as you say in the above which is what i suggested. calm down and look at what is being said instead of just being mad someone said you could do something other than the way you would do it. Towing has to do with seeing a whole lot of different makes and models, their problems and asking the repair shops that i frequent how they fixed various vehicles. Admittedly i'm no expert on the 86 300Zx......yet but i'm learning. I tow to repair shops usually the same shops over and over again as many as 70 cars per week, You are a expert in 300z's correct? i've seen 10 million ways for a car to break down. Totally off the subject but just a dose of proof did you know that Jeep Libertys are prone to ball joint failure (2 recalls so far), that all "NEW" Chevy vehicle are prone to battery failure, HHRs are prone to the window frames bending (they are made too thin when people grap the top of the door getting in/out the window frame bends causing air leaks around door frame) old jags have numerous 02 sensors that run $700 to get all them replaced new BMWs have up to 6 02 sensors. Q&A is my favorite past time, i'm chock full of useless info. Don't try to discredit someone until they prove they don't know what they are talking about heh? especially if you are going to turn around and say the samething that the person you are discrediting just said lol.

mechanics terminology 101. it will roll= the engine will "roll-over" but will not run.
it will crank= the engine will "crank-up" and operate normally or abnormally.

one wire or another same thing? no way! wire to starter or wire to ignition coil two completely different parts of the electrical system but cutting one or the other has the same effect the car doesn't crank and drive anymore.


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## thezman (Nov 3, 2007)

*My apologize everyone*



suditaki said:


> I think we need a special forum for him and thezman to take out their aggression. And im not saying anyones information is wrong because I don't know if it is or not, its just you two fighting over whos information is.


the funny part is i was just pointing out alternative posibilitys wasn't trying to start a fight LOL Sorry for the Drama everyone.


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## AZ-ZBum (Nov 21, 2004)

thezman said:


> ok so if his alarm is the problem removing the fuse to the alarm would disable the security system allowing the car to operate normally. Doing so would identify a definate problem area for repair and at the same time get the car back on the road until such time as he can get ti properly repaired? as you say in the above which is what i suggested.


If the engine is cranking (as he says it is), then the problem is definitely beyond the alarm. Removing the fuse will remove any security the car actually has.



thezman said:


> mechanics terminology 101.
> it will roll= the engine will "roll-over" but will not run.
> it will crank= the engine will "crank-up" and operate normally or abnormally.


I have no idea what mechanical slang you've come up with, but DAMN! That's really messed up. Now admittedly, I'm not a mechanic. But I've NEVER heard those terms defined in that manner. No wonder your statements make zero sense to me.
Rolling = car will ROLL on it's tires.
Cranking = starter will turn flywheel (which in turn spins the motor).
Firing = spark plugs will ignite fuel and engine will start.
Running = engine runs and will stay running beyond the first few seconds.

I can move a car around without the engine running by rolling it. I can crank the motor by turning the key in the ignition and engaging the starter. But it won't fire if it doesn't have fuel and spark.



thezman said:


> one wire or another same thing? no way! wire to starter or wire to ignition coil two completely different parts of the electrical system but cutting one or the other has the same effect the car doesn't crank and drive anymore.


No they most certainly do NOT have the same affect. Cutting the ignition coil will cause the car to crank, but not fire or run. Cutting the starter wire will cause NOTHING to happen when one turns the key. No current alarm or factory alarm I know of is an ignition coil cut. They're all starter cuts.


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## suditaki (Oct 31, 2007)

Well now back to the task at hand... I have gotten a new battery so back to testing.
I tried to turn over but nada I have spark an fuel flow but it doesn't even try to sputter now what?


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## thezman (Nov 3, 2007)

well there is only 3 things a motor has to have to run spark, fuel, and air (compression helps alot too). So something is missing. You said it will turn over now with good battery? and you are getting spark to the plugs for sure, so i'd say check the plugs/wires, and open the airbox up and be sure something hasn't made a nest in your air intake box/tubes that may keep your car from breathing if its packed tight enough. Also you might better check you timing belt before you get too far with it.


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## suditaki (Oct 31, 2007)

I checked the ecu and am pulling codes 23 and 31
and some red ants form under the carpet


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## suditaki (Oct 31, 2007)

I checked the air intake up to the collector where in trying to remove I broke a hose with 1h5905 on the side and I cant find a replacement it was going from the collector to the valve cover?? any help


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