# First Oil Change today...



## wensk (Oct 30, 2005)

1303 miles went in for my first oil change. They tried to tell me I didn't need it until 3750 but we wanted to do it now. I also wanted to move to synthetic. When I made the appointment they told me they use a blend...so much for the appointment takers knowledge.

I get there for my 10:30 appointment and they tell me its either regular or synthetic...no blend, and its Kendall. Synth is $24 in additional to the regular $24 for the change. No problem....BJ's is $24 for 6 Mobil 1. Yeah, I don't have the spare quart but I also don't have to make the trip to BJ's.

A hour later I see my truck outside so I go to the service tech and ask. Oh, they're going to get to it right now. I have to leave by noon to pick up my child. 11:45 I finally see them take in my truck. They were done at 12:05. Service tech comes over and say, I've taken care of it for you. Sorry for the wait.

Wooo Hoooo.....$50 oil change.....free!!! Guess I'll go back to them again.

Yessssss.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

*Wendy*, learn to do it yourself. Be proud and save money.


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## wensk (Oct 30, 2005)

Bror Jace said:


> *Wendy*, learn to do it yourself. Be proud and save money.


No thanks...but I might let my husband do it :thumbup: 

This was just easier and all in all worked out quite well afterall.


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## SD Frontier (Oct 17, 2005)

Bror Jace said:


> *Wendy*, learn to do it yourself. Be proud and save money.


sometimes it just makes more sense to have someone do it for you. for synthetic motor oil, you could pay upwards of $30 or more for the 6 quarts that the new Frontier needs. you then would need to run to the store to get it yourself. the dealer usually does a 14 point inspection where they top off all of your fluids, except of course the fluids only accesible frim underneath the car. 

so, $30 for oil, time to get the oil, supply of various fluids, and doing it yourself. there is quite an arguement for paying $50 to have the dealer do it for you. the other plus is that the change is documented.


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## Q-Tip (Sep 10, 2005)

Whether or not I can justify it financially, I *HATE* to change oil and will gladly pay someone else to do it. I'd rather do suspension work than change oil.

I'm not a sucker however and I won't let myself get ripped off or accept shoddy work. I am particular about who I let change my oil.


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## Cusser (Apr 16, 2004)

The Frontier oil change is much easier if you install the oil filter relocation kit from Perma Cool like I did.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

_"sometimes it just makes more sense to have someone do it for you."_

Unless you _can't_ do it yourself (live in an apartment and have no place to work on your car, for example) this is never true.

I buy a top quality synthetic blend for $3 per quart (or conventional for $1.50) and a filter for $4. So, that's a maximum of $22. Step up to Mobil 1 for about another $10.

That's better than going to a dealership and having them put oil in my car that might be merely bulk oil (often contaminated with microscopic debris) and charging me $50 or so.  

Oh, and you can take that 14 point inspection. Holy [email protected] When I'm checking my car, I probably do a 40 point inspection.

Learning to take care of your car makes you a better owner, saves you money and can even a better driver.

Be proud that you get your hands dirty. I wouldn't have it any other way. :thumbup:


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## SD Frontier (Oct 17, 2005)

Bror Jace said:


> _"sometimes it just makes more sense to have someone do it for you."_
> 
> Unless you _can't_ do it yourself (live in an apartment and have no place to work on your car, for example) this is never true.
> 
> ...


and how much time does it take you do this? 30mins? 1 hr? 2hrs even? i'm leaning more towards 2 hrs not because it takes you 2 hrs to change the oil and perform the 40 point inspection, but i'm factoring in the additional time to purchase the necessary items you need to perform this oil change. imagine what you could be doing in that amount of time. time is money my friend. $50 synthetic oil change to me is money well spent. (especially if the dealer knocks off $30 for my first 6 changes...so really it is $20 plus tax - but that is beside the point)

_"Learning to take care of your car makes you a better owner..."_ 

disagree...learning to take care of your car does not make you a better owner than someone who takes their car to the dealer or certified mechanic for regularly scheduled maintenance. save your ego. you would still have to take care of your car the right way. if you maintain your car incorrectly, you have noone to blame but yourself. 

_"saves you money and can even a better driver."_

it may save you money in the very very very long run but, in my opinion, my time is better spent doing something else.

there is no way learning to take care of your car can make anyone a better driver. that statement is just absurd. sorry for being blunt. only learning how to be a better driver can make someone a better driver. 

just my $0.02


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## mitchell35758 (Oct 21, 2005)

I guess it is all about who values there leisure time more. 

I'd rather sacrifice some of my leisure time and do the job myself. I too have a hard time believing what exactly it is they are putting into my truck. when I'm sitting in the customer lounge with the truck out of sight. 

After reading the manual tranny thread, I wonder what exactly they toped my tranny off with when they repaired a drive shaft input leak?

Back to the point. I prefer sacrificing time in preforming the job myself and taking a little sense of pride with it. (kinda like hank hill on King of the Hill on how he takes care of his truck. Yeah yeah, I know it just a cartoon). 

I also like saving the pennies here and there so that they can be spent on fun things like aftermarket parts. :thumbup: 

But I also believe that it wont make you any less of a good owner to have someone else do it for you. 

:cheers:


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## MrFancypants (Nov 18, 2005)

mitchell35758 said:


> I guess it is all about who values there leisure time more.


Some of us also consider working on our cars/trucks "leisure time". :thumbup: 

Doing your own work also gives you the opportunity to build a collection of tools, and tools last a lifetime (sometimes several lifetimes).

I used to be the same way about oil changes. Even though I did all of my other maintenance, I never wanted to do oil changes because of the mess and the general pain in the ass factor. But after youve heard enough horror stories about some jackass newbie tech that flunked out of highschool forgetting to tighten down your oil filter or drain plug, only to lose all your oil in your driveway or worse on the highway -- well, you tend to not trust the so called "experts". I would bet you dont need to be ASE certified to change oil, even at a dealership.

I also used to bring my own synthetic oil AND pay the dealer to put it in... parts and labor total was running me over $50/oil change. It does add up.

It doesnt make you a bad owner if you pay someone to do the work, though. Some of us are just paranoid about monkeys.


- Greg -


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## Mulligan22 (Nov 24, 2005)

*Oil Change*

This reminds me of the ordeal I had with the dealer I bought my 2004 Frontier from. ( I later traded it for an 05 Frontier at a different dealer.) I took the 04 Fronty in to have it's 8500 checkup and state inspection. Since they were going to do an oil change I put 5 quarts of Castrol synthetic blend oil and a new filter on the passenger front seat and instructed the service advisor to use this oil and filter for the change. He said no problem. (The 8500 mile change would be the trucks 3rd since I change oil about every 2~3k miles.)

Later in the day the dealer called to tell me to come get the truck; it's ready. So when I arrived, I saw it sitting on the lot and I went over to check on it. Well there on the passenger seat was my 5 quarts of Castrol sythentic blend and filter. Unopened.

I went inside and this time I headed for the service manager. I asked him why they did not honor my request and use the oil and filter I provided. He asked me if I had a specific brand I prefer to use. Duh! I said no, I like to use mulitple brands and mix them in a oil cocktail so my engine doesn't get bored. I got a blank stare from him. I then said yes that's why I provided the oil. He asked which brand I use. I told him Castrol. He said, well we use a quality oil too. I asked which brand would that be. I got another blank stare. He then hollered across the room and asked Bud, a service guy, what kind of oil they use. Bud said, Holtzman. Well Holtzman is a local oil distrubutor not a brand of oil. (They sell Chevron) 
I ended up getting the oil change taken off my bill. Bottom line is unless you can watch them do it, do it yourself.


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## Cusser (Apr 16, 2004)

Pretty soon the oil change place will state you need a new pan because some (NOT THEM, of course) stripped out the drain plug threads by overtightening them. Then you'll start making time to do it yourself. I once had a Chevy Luv manual transmission that the mechanics wanted to put 80-90 wt transmission oil into, but the manual insisted upon 30 wt. engine oil, so yes, that job was done by me as well. Now, with four vehicles newest 1998 Frontier, oldest 1971 VW, I'd say two visits to mechanic per year, max.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

_ “And how much time does it take you do this? 30 minutes? 1 hour? 2 hours even? I'm leaning more towards 2 hours, not because it takes you 2 hours to change the oil and perform the 40 point inspection, but I'm factoring in the additional time to purchase the necessary items you need to perform this oil change.”_

OK, let me step back and explain my car care habits and it may shed some light on how I view this whole issue. 

I don’t view time spent with my car as ‘drudgery’ or ‘hell.’ Yes, I’ll admit there are times I think _waxing_ my car is a big job and I put it off … but simple routine maintenance is quick and easy … and I _like_ doing it in small bits throughout the year. I tend to spend an hour or two checking out my car (fluid levels, tire pressures, various cleaning, etc …) at least once or twice each month. Others do a lot more work on their vehicles (project cars) and they find it highly rewarding. I understand them perfectly even if I find a pure project car not worth the hassle (been there, done that).

I currently do two (2) oil changes on my car each year. When I drove more, I used to do three (3). It’s not a big deal. I take my sweet time listening to music or news on the radio, looking over parts of my car as the oil drains, tidying up the garage, etc … and this relaxed pace means the oil change takes about an hour. If I was in a rush, I’d be done in 15 minutes (easy) … but I sorta look forward to this, why rush it? What else am I going to do on a Saturday morning … watch cartoons? Housework? 

The oil (Schaeffer oil – their excellent PAO synthetic blend) and filters I got via mail order ($3 per quart including shipping and $4 per filter from Courtesy Nissan because I ordered 10). But even buying locally … I’m already at Walmart, how much trouble is it to pull 5 quarts of Havoline off the shelf and place them in my cart? Returning used oil is the biggest hassle … but then again, Walmart takes it and I go there a lot more often than I change my oil. Not a big deal and very little extra time out of my life.

_ “A $50 synthetic [dealership] oil change to me is money well spent.”_

Most synthetics on the market these days are merely highly processed mineral oil and not ‘true’ synthetics like they were several years ago. Mobil 1 is an uncommon exception to this truism. To me, a $50 oil change with mineral oil (even good stuff) is a rip-off … and I, like *Mitchell35758* and *MrFancypants* still don’t trust others to work on my vehicle. Too many friends getting socked with overpriced work and even _damage_ such as over-tightened (stripped) drain plugs, etc … not to mention the time spent going to the dealership, waiting for them to even _begin_ work on my vehicle, etc … 

_ “...learning to take care of your car does not make you a better owner than someone who takes their car to the dealer or certified mechanic for regularly scheduled maintenance.”_

It may sound absurd the first time you hear it, but getting to know your car (how it works, etc …) makes you a better owner and driver. This is especially true over a couple decades after you’ve had a number of vehicles, worked on them all, having crawled underneath them, seen damage from road debris, etc … seen how your tires and brakes are wearing from your use. It all adds up to you knowing how your car reacts to the way you treat it … and if you care about being a really good driver, this information will gradually shape your driving style.

I assume you know that being able to drive a standard transmission makes you a better, more aware driver? Working on your car has the same effect … just in a much subtler way.

You can wax poetic about the virtues of ‘certified mechanics’ all you want but oil changes are often left to the greenest, least-skilled member of the team … and those folks are rushed to get ‘em in, then send ‘em out … ASAP. 

Years ago I worked at a dealership and saw several cars owned by people who obviously did not show their cars any real TLC but brought them back to the dealership for all scheduled maintenance. They often looked and felt neglected when I test drove them. There’s no substitute for a car guy (or gal  ) who loves his/her car and takes personal pride in maintaining it.

If you find what I say absurd, then I suggest you are not (yet) much of a true car person … and haven’t even hung around many. It’s a way of thinking about your vehicle and not merely taking it for granted, trusting others to do maintenance for you. Knowledge is power and the only way to really _know_ your ride is to perform the work on it yourself. Oil changes are a good place to start.


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## Reverendbiker (Jan 29, 2005)

Bror Jace, One of the most thoughtful, best-written responses I've ever seen on a forum; you captured the essence of vehicle ownership perfectly. Most of my friends think I'm nuts because I do all of my own routine maintenance, but I really enjoy most of the process and I truly believe that doing the small jobs helps prevent problems with the large ones. Thanx for your input...


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## mitchell35758 (Oct 21, 2005)

Another reason:
If I do decide to keep this truck until it dies. I will be able to take pride in saying that it lasted as long as it did because of me. It may sound dumb, but that is one thing I look forward to doing some day.


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## SD Frontier (Oct 17, 2005)

Bror Jace said:


> If you find what I say absurd, then I suggest you are not (yet) much of a true car person … and haven’t even hung around many. It’s a way of thinking about your vehicle and not merely taking it for granted, trusting others to do maintenance for you. Knowledge is power and the only way to really _know_ your ride is to perform the work on it yourself. Oil changes are a good place to start.


maybe i should be the one that steps back for a second. my post above was merely to defend those people (wensk and myself) that don't mind sending their vehicle to a shop to have the oil changed. i was in no way attacking anyone, but saying that i am not much of a car person is out of line. 

i had a 95 Ranger 4x4 that i just sold this year with a little over 170k miles. on occassion, i changed the oil and rotated my tires. i also tuned it up a couple of times and even flushed the radiator once. that truck was my first vehicle and i loved it. with all of the abuse that i gave it off road, i'm amazed it lasted that long. i'd like to think it was because i cared for it anyway i could. 

i realize that many people think spending time with their car is leisure time. i enjoy spending time with my car as much as the next guy. i've washed it 8 times in the last 8 weeks and waxed it twice already. but i just dont have the time to do everything else to it regularly. i suppose we live different lives and you obviously have the spare time to work on your car but i dont. i dont think it makes me any less of a car person, a bad owner, or less knowledgeable of my vehicle. as i install aftermarket accessories, i learn more and more about my truck. i'm fairly familiar with the truck and slowly increasing my knowledge of it's parts.

the beauty of this board is that not only can we find people who share our interests but also those that oppose them. some people lift their trucks and other lower them. some people keep them stock and still others mod everything from the air intakes to the windshield wipers (iefronty  ) i appreciate your opinion and i wish you luck with your truck.


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## WarmPepsi (Nov 1, 2005)

Don't own one yet, but as an example of "knowing the car."

I own a Lancer Evo, theres been times, that after a service, or a check, you blow an intercooler pipe off, or blow the intake pipe off the manifold.

Now, had you never been under the hood, you'd freak out. "OH MY GOD, I BLEW THE MOTOR". You'd call a tow truck, get it towed to the dealer, have bad nightmares, etc.

Now that you HAVE been under the hood, you pop it, put the pipe back on, and resnug the clamp.

THAT makes you a better driver.

Since i'm a non-owner, i'm unaware of any instances on the frontier's where something like that could happen, but you get the idea. :thumbup:


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## wensk (Oct 30, 2005)

Bror Jace said:


> _ If you find what I say absurd, then I suggest you are not (yet) much of a true car person … and haven’t even hung around many. It’s a way of thinking about your vehicle and not merely taking it for granted, trusting others to do maintenance for you. Knowledge is power and the only way to really know your ride is to perform the work on it yourself. Oil changes are a good place to start. _


_

And now I will add my $.02. I work full time, volunteer on Saturday mornings, run a household, a small web design business part time and paint folk art for a hobby.

I buy a new car so that I don't have to worry about maintenance. I check the levels, tire pressure, wash and wax myself but doing oil changes or any other car stuff is just not on my list of things that I have time for or a desire to do.

I know how to change the oil. I can change my own tire. I know how an engine operates...I don't think that the lights on the dashboard are a video game. I know what body roll and understeer are. Can your wife say that?

I have always owned reasonably interesting vehicles, Volvo 1800ES, GTi, Merkur XR4ti, BMW 525, Audi TT. I follow auto racing and enjoy driving. 

The fact that I don't desire to perform my own maintenance doesn't make me any less knowledgeable about how an engine works or what is needed to maintain it or any less attuned to knowing when something isn't working right. 

I have always been around car folk and appreciate those that do their own maintenance. I have to trust that the mechanics at the dealership are going to do it right. That doesn't mean that after their done I don't check my oil or make sure they put the filler cap back on.

You have to do what works for you. _


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

Thanks *Reverendbiker*. Over the years here, I've received those extra 31 'Rep' points and I try to live up to the standard. 

*SD Frontier* and *wensk*, I wasn't trying to put anyone down, I was merely extolling the many virtues of working on your own car yourself. I still contend that when you factor in everything including cost and time, you are better off doing as much maintenance yourself as you can.

_Most_ people who do not do simple work on their own vehicle are either lazy, afraid of getting dirty, don't have the know-how or the place to do it. Everyone will have to take an honest look within themselves to see what their core reasons really are. You two have already stated yours.

Eventually the day will come when I will buy a car with an automatic transmission and will probably let someone else change my oil as well. However, I am _not_ looking forward to that day. It will probably only be weeks before I'm dropped into a pine box and buried in the cold, cold ground. 

Until then, I will gently encourage people to take a more hands-on approach ... to cars as well as other aspects of their lives.


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## scuba91ta (Aug 19, 2005)

my extended warrenty came with free oil changes for 72,000 miles


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## SD Frontier (Oct 17, 2005)

scuba91ta said:


> my extended warrenty came with free oil changes for 72,000 miles


sweet...i too got 6 free oil change coupons and with their synthetic, the changes are every 7500 miles. that should last me a while. just make sure you check the work of the techs. people have written about some awful experiences.


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## Bror Jace (Apr 26, 2003)

I didn't get an extended warranty ... but I _did_ get a free oil change when I bought my car. I guess it's the dealership's (which says they use Castrol Syntec Blend) attempt to get people into the habit of going there and having them do their oil changes.

Anyway, just to be sure, I marked the end of the oil filter with a nail to make sure they changed it.


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## scuba91ta (Aug 19, 2005)

yeah it seemed like a good deal - the dealership i bought my truck at i know a couple of the techs so they make sure the works is done right on it


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## Ventura (Dec 11, 2005)

Not really a good idea to use synthetic oil in a new engine. Typically is best to start using synthetic at around 5000 miles. This gives the engine plenty of time for the rings to seat properly in the cylinders. Going to synthetic too early can cause oil consumption problems and sometimes a slight loss in power.


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## Reverendbiker (Jan 29, 2005)

Ventura said:


> Not really a good idea to use synthetic oil in a new engine. Typically is best to start using synthetic at around 5000 miles. This gives the engine plenty of time for the rings to seat properly in the cylinders. Going to synthetic too early can cause oil consumption problems and sometimes a slight loss in power.


That's going to be a real surprise for Porsche, which uses synthetic oil in all its new vehicles. You'll also find synthetics in new Corvettes, Vipers, and many models of Cadillac and BMW. New car manufacturing tolerances are so much better now that there is no problem in going with synthetic oil at the first change. For more info, check this article:
Synthetic Oil in New Vehicles


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## 05 NISMO 4X4 (Jun 4, 2005)

I've been following this thread for a while now, and have reserved comment. But, I figured it was time to voice my opinion. I do my own oil changes, but only because I'm cheap! I don't like it, because I don't like getting dirty. Beyond oil changes and air filter changes, I'm pretty much at a loss, mainly because I don't have a Consult II in my garage! With today's computerized ignition, timing, transmissions, etc, there's not a lot the home mechanic can do other than maintain fluids! I love cars, always have, and I personally consider myself an automotive enthusist, car nut, etc.. Does this fit anyone elses definition of same? I really don't care! :cheers:

One other thought, how many people think Tony Stewart or Al Unser actually change their own oil? :thumbup:


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## Mulligan22 (Nov 24, 2005)

*Oil*



Ventura said:


> Not really a good idea to use synthetic oil in a new engine. Typically is best to start using synthetic at around 5000 miles. This gives the engine plenty of time for the rings to seat properly in the cylinders. Going to synthetic too early can cause oil consumption problems and sometimes a slight loss in power.




From what I understand synthetic oil is made to be compatible with conventional oil. If you aren't comfortable using it in a low mileage engine then don't. But it is true some makes come with the stuff in the pan when they roll off the assembly line. So *if* there is an error to make make it on the side of caution.

I did have a reman rotary engine put in my RX7 Vert a few years ago and after about 2k miles I went to change the oil. I put Royal Purple synthetic. (Please no lectures about rotaries and syhthetic oil.) Within a short time I had a massive oil leak at the front of the motor. My rotary mechanic found a front seal with a slight crimp in it. Dino oil wouldn't leak past it but the synthetic would. Once it was fixed I went back to dino oil just for comfort.


Synthetic does flow better and handlles temperatures better. It also empties your wallet better. I know people with 200k on motors running plain old Castrol. The most important thing is to change it regularly.


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## WarmPepsi (Nov 1, 2005)

Ventura said:


> Not really a good idea to use synthetic oil in a new engine. Typically is best to start using synthetic at around 5000 miles. This gives the engine plenty of time for the rings to seat properly in the cylinders. Going to synthetic too early can cause oil consumption problems and sometimes a slight loss in power.


 exactly. theres a few dozen cars that come with mobil 1, fully synthetic, factory.


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## 05 NISMO 4X4 (Jun 4, 2005)

You know, with all the hype about the price of crude oil skyrocketing, shouldn't the cost of the synthetics be dropping? :crazy:


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## Mulligan22 (Nov 24, 2005)

05 NISMO 4X4 said:


> You know, with all the hype about the price of crude oil skyrocketing, shouldn't the cost of the synthetics be dropping? :crazy:



No. The cost of making them hasn't dropped. And market conditions aren't such as to warrant a drop in price. A more correct question might be why hasn't conventional oil gone up in proportion to the rise in crude oil prices?
There's and answer there too.


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## AZdriver (Sep 8, 2005)

When I change my own oil, I can guarantee the type & weight of oil installed. I've had too many friends with problems resulting from a dealer or Quickie-Lube joint simply dumping in straight 30 weight "because it's a truck" or "it doesn't matter, because the Arizona heat thins it out anyway". If I want to make a jackass decision and fry some bearings, that's my problem, but to have the so-called experts do it, is another matter. Too much hassle to hire a lawyer, drive a rental & wait for the court decision, in order to compel the wrongdoer to pay the bill for a proper engine fix...


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## Jsee (Jan 12, 2004)

SD Frontier said:


> and how much time does it take you do this? 30mins? 1 hr? 2hrs even? i'm leaning more towards 2 hrs not because it takes you 2 hrs to change the oil and perform the 40 point inspection, but i'm factoring in the additional time to purchase the necessary items you need to perform this oil change. imagine what you could be doing in that amount of time. time is money my friend. $50 synthetic oil change to me is money well spent. (especially if the dealer knocks off $30 for my first 6 changes...so really it is $20 plus tax - but that is beside the point)
> 
> _"Learning to take care of your car makes you a better owner..."_
> 
> ...



SD, I agree with you. I am and have been an avid believer about doing to work "yourself" This is how I was taught. However, As I have had less and less time due to work, home responsibilities and positive time spent with family, I have found that changing the oil in my car can be a task better done by someone else while I'm in the office churning out work, numbers, programs, - doing my job - or something else constructive.

I use to change my oil and due basic maintenance on my cars regularly. However, it's not only the time concern now. Now it's a concern over the mess changing the oil makes. 

I'll tell you, I use to go to Costco or other bulk stores to purchase my oil. I used to think I was getting a great deal by shopping for filters, oil, rags etc. However, one day I took my car in to Walmart - of all places.

Not trusting "other peoples" work and only trusing my own, I sat there and watched how they treated my car and what they put in it. All in all, I puchased a full oil change with full Synthetic for 23 dollars. I could not beat that. It really comes down to cost benefit. If I have the time, I don't mind maintaining my car, primarily, because I like to take time with my car and I trust my own work. But, if I don't have time, I would gladly give Walmart my 23 bucks to do my oil.


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## demob05 (Apr 26, 2005)

*Oil Change DIY Instructions*

On this topic, anyone have a step by step w/ pics instructions on changing the oil, particularly for my model which is a '05 Frontier XE with the 4 CYLINDER engine.
Heard somewhere that the oil filter might be a pain to remove and/or install. Also that the oil pan drain is in an awkward spot. Don't know how true that is, or if that also applies to the 4 cylinder models, which seem to be a minority among the restyled 2005 series. 
Thanks if anyone got the pics!


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