# Sudden clutch squeal



## GreenEyedAngel (Aug 22, 2008)

Was just driving home and about 3 blocks from home, clutch started squealing when fully depressed and while depressing, it seemed to go through a series of steps rather than smooth movement. It additionally would cause the engine to die when fully depressed. I have a '97 200SX/SE GA16 w/manually tranny and 582K miles. Clutch has never been replaced (although was adjusted when tranny was reworked at 157K).

My suspicion, but just want to confirm with all the great knowledge y'all have, is that the clutch has finally gone although I supposed it's possible that it's an issue with the clutch plate, the cable or one of the cylinders. It has slipped about 3 times in the last year, but always recovered. 

As this is my only vehicle currently, would like to have some idea before I take her in tomorrow - all thoughts are appreciated. :newbie:


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Sounds like a bad throwout bearing. If the clutch is also starting to slip, then replace both.


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## GreenEyedAngel (Aug 22, 2008)

Thanks, Rogoman, for the quick reply! Any guesses on what it should run to do both (not at the dealer, but ASE certified mechanic as not going to tackle that myself)?


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## GreenEyedAngel (Aug 22, 2008)

So not taking the chance gave my local AAMCO a call - $575 quote for the clutch replacement including the throwout (thank u ever so much Rogo coz got them to confirm that it includes that and makes sense that's probably the source).....

We'll see how it goes coz I insist on seeing the parts replaced and know enough to know if one is pulling wool over my eyes - may be too lazy to try to do myself, but not stereotypical female.....still waiting 4 my Dad 2 give up the 62 Impala SS in his garage and miss what I learned to drive on - 72 Kingswood Estate wagon w/400 small block that became mine till the automatic tranny gave way in 86....lol.

Will let y'all know what happens....Love what I'm hearing bout the Altima 2.5, but at her 582K would like to keep her going just out of curiosity (and my man's 89 Toyota @497K is in the same category, even after hitting 14 deer).


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

When they replace the clutch, make sure the flywheel is in good shape; no heat cracks or burn spots.

Good luck.


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## GreenEyedAngel (Aug 22, 2008)

So to catch everyone up......had the clutch assembly replaced (and you were right about the flywheel - had a new one put in). Took her around a few blocks and knew something wasn't right - clutch was very loose and yet wanted to stick when fully depressed. Also making a clicking noise w/a bit of squeal in lower gears. Same noise as when the throwout first started to go.

Drove straight back to the shop - agreed that the throwout bearing was probably the noise and also that the clutch cable should have been replaced as it was fully stretched (hence the clutch loose behavior as it could no longer be adjusted). Due to travel requirements for work, took until today to get the clutch cable done - it helped with the travel on the clutch, but still need to redo the throwout. Service Manager decided that he'd rather redo the entire assembly than just the bearing as concerned that if the throwout in the kit was bad, there may be other problems with the other parts - absolutely agreed so she goes back tomorrow for the second round of replacement of the clutch assembly. 

To add insult to injury, valve cover gasket has gone and is leaking onto the belts compounding it all with a horrible squeal so we'll be doing that tomorrow as well. Will update again once we see what happens......


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## GreenEyedAngel (Aug 22, 2008)

Well, got her back. Replaced clutch assembly, flywheel, valve cover gasket, belts, valve cover, alternator bracket and clutch cable. Squealing has stopped and running better, but still makes a ticking noise when depressing the clutch. According to the techs at AAMCO, the noise is coming from the main bearings on the crankshaft. Having reviewed the service manual it makes sense to me as depressing the clutch would cause the crank to move slightly impacting the bearings. 

Couple of questions:

1. Does this make sense to anyone else? (Additional note - this is the 2nd engine for this car. 1st engine was replaced at 437K approximately 5 years ago.)

2. In this engine (and suppose I really should post this in the GA16 forum), are the main bearings easily reached after removing the oil pan?

3. Is it even worth replacing the bearings or is that just waiting for something else to go wrong? Would it make more sense to replace the entire engine?

Thanks in advance to the gurus out there. Your knowledge, as always, is greatly appreciated.


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## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Does the ticking noise get faster as the RPMs increase? If main bearings have excessive wear, you will hear a metallic knocking sound at all times irregardless of whether the clutch is engaged or not. The crankshaft has two thrust bearings; it's possible that they may be worn. The crankshaft end play can be measured at the flywheel with a dial indicator.


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## GreenEyedAngel (Aug 22, 2008)

Rogoman -

Ticking noise only occurs when the clutch is depressed; as soon as it's released, the noise stops. The explanation they gave me was that depressing the clutch is moving the crank approximately 1/8" and causing the bearings to rub. Didn't think about the thrust bearings - that would actually make better sense given the behavior. Actually is similar to my man's 89 Toyota 4x4 w/22RE engine - had a similar behavior for about a year until he had the engine rebuilt which included replacement of both the main and thrust bearings.


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## azkicker0027 (May 31, 2002)

did you check the clutch cable adjustment again? service manual says to recheck a new one after about 50 applications. 
did the shop install the clutch disc the right way?
did they put on the throw out bearing properly? it may be throw out bearing to pressure plate "fingers" (spring disc) making the noise when pedal is pressed.

just some thoughts.


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## GreenEyedAngel (Aug 22, 2008)

Thanks for the thoughts azkicker.....been on biz travel so she'd been sitting in the airport pkg lot and hence the delay in replying. Getting ready to address it again now that I'm back. I have the same questions; on regular shifting, the noise only occurs when the clutch is depressed...to me it almost sounds hydraulic, but my understanding (from review of the service manual) is this clutch and tranny doesn't have slave and master cylinders. Strange thing is that it sounds like a big truck shifting when shifting at speed (clearly not an Allison tranny...lol). That leads me to think that it may very well be adjustment on the cable - she's probably at about 100-150 applications since the new install.

Going to give them another shot at it as their BBB rating is A+ (it's an AAMCO and been in same location for 30 years) and see what they say - just a reminder that this is the 2nd replacement clutch assembly as the 1st one had a defective throwout and pressure plate. Although their "insurance policies" prohibit being in the bays, I may insist that they show me what they're thinking since it doesn't make sense to me that a crankshaft bearing (whether main or thrust) would only make these noises with the clutch depressed (and during the depression action).

Unfortunately, I don't have the facility here to verify on my own so going to have to keep working on it. Am I understanding the service manual correctly that if you drop the oil pan, the crank is readily accessible and easily dropped?


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## LvR. (May 26, 2010)

GreenEyedAngel said:


> Rogoman -
> 
> Ticking noise only occurs when the clutch is depressed; as soon as it's released, the noise stops. The explanation they gave me was that depressing the clutch is moving the crank approximately 1/8" and causing the bearings to rub. Didn't think about the thrust bearings - that would actually make better sense given the behavior. Actually is similar to my man's 89 Toyota 4x4 w/22RE engine - had a similar behavior for about a year until he had the engine rebuilt which included replacement of both the main and thrust bearings.


1/8" eh? .................. grab the crank pulley and with as much force force as humanly possible try to move the pulley in and out of the engine - do you see any where near 1/8" movement there? This is the exact amount of axial movement the crank can experience in the motor - my guess is not. 1/8" is a whole lot for crank thrust bearing (inside engine) wear and it certainly wouldn't/shouldn't give rise to a ticking sound because of "rubbing bearings" - if that was the case you would imo have major debris in the oil

Edit - Have a look at EM65 in the FSM - crank end play (thrust bearing wear) max value is only 0.012" - nowhere near the 1/8" your mechanics are trying to make you swallow.


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## GreenEyedAngel (Aug 22, 2008)

Thank you LvR -- after driving her on simply local (less than 10 miles) runs for the last couple days, I am absolutely inclined to agree. Noise occurs only through depression of the clutch and has a distinct sound of either something rubbing w/flywheel revolutions and/or adjustment on the clutch cable (it sort of sounds the more I hear it like a creaky door hinge that is then hitting something spinning). 

On initial start, it's really dominant - after she's warmed up and shifted a few times, it's not quite as loud, but still audible on shifts. That's the only thing that puzzles me - if it's simply the cable and/or clutch assembly (including flywheel), why would the behavior lessen but not disappear after warmup?

I agree that I don't agree with the bearing diagnosis - it just doesn't make much sense the more I review and think about it. But as I mentioned before, I have to give them the opportunity to reconcile the situation, but probably going to get second opinion from the shop that's done most of her other work as they will actually let me in the bay and show me what they find. Just wish I were back at home in VA where I could put her up myself instead of having to rely on others....


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## LvR. (May 26, 2010)

If you look at the clutch operation there are basically 3 things that start rotating relative to other mechanical components when you depress the pedal:

1. The spigot shaft's tip starts rotating inside the bearing/bush located in the flywheel

2. The clutch plate/friction plate starts rotating relative to the flywheel and pressure plate when the pedal is depressed far enough and

3. the Release bearing starts rotating as soon as it contacts the fingers on the pressure plate


Both #1 and #2 only happens when the clutch actually is depressed far enough, so you should be able to easily isolate the onset point of pedal travel as being involved - if you depress the pedal just enough to take up the slack (iow press the throwout bearing against the fingers of the pressure plate), you are causing only #3 to happen, so if its ticking you know its the throwout bearing causing the tick.

There is absolutely nothing about the cable itself that can/could cause ticking at all.

If the bearing is not responsible, then the other obvious answer could be that they fitted the clutch plate back to front - seen this many a time - the rivets/springs on the plate are designed to run in a sorta "cavity" machined in the pressure plate and flywheel - if you reverse the plate, its possible that on clutch depression, when the fingers of the pressure plate gets pushed toward the clutch plate, the fingers start touching the springs/rivets etc on the clutch plate and that certainly could cause a tick ............... and if this is the cause it needs to be seen to pronto because you are mechanically wearing metal bits away that could lead to a failed clutch assembly again.


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## WSSmolick (Jan 8, 2013)

I don't know what year you have, but in my '02 Altima, I found that the thrust bearings for the crankshaft fell out. Especially with the manual trans, depressing the clutch forces the crankshaft towards the pulley side of the engine, which puts more force on this thrust bearing. Since my bearing fell out, the crank was rubbing against the block, causing significant wear. I noticed that the belt would squeal differently depending on if I was going around a right-hand corner or depressing the clutch. Makes sense now that we tore the engine apart and found this issue.


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