# Help - ID engine and adjust carburator



## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

I recently purchased a "project" ... it is an old skid steer (Ford CL40) that has had the engine replaced with a Nissan engine to drive the hydro-static drive. I've been unable to identify this engine so that I can get some replacement parts. It is a straight 4-cylinder and I suspect that it is from the mid-1980s. Can anyone ID this from photos? Looks like I need more posts before I can post pictures .... coming soon.

I have been able to finally get this engine running after fixing a jammed starter and then using a the spray type starting 'aid'. I got it to run for a while once warmed up, but with the choke fully engaged the whole time. Can anyone walk me through the steps to adjust the carb so that it will start and run properly?


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Another post ... just to increase my count ... sigh


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

.... and yet another


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

... and another ... (up to 4 now)


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

*Skid Steer with Nissan engine*

Here they are:


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Hmmmm .... that didn't work. I'll try again


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

grrrrrrrrrrr

Later ....


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

*Image posting attempt ... again*

Today's attempt to post images (does anyone know what my issue might be? How many posts do I need to be able to add pictures?)


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

Not sure on the pics. But, as you soon as you image them, will take a look. Familiar with those mid-80s carbs and engines. Have a couple in fact.


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

CG, Thanks for replying. I'll try again with the images. I have not heard back from the moderators. Let see if I can just post the links ... 


Nissan 6 Photo by Steelart99 | Photobucket
Nissan 4 Photo by Steelart99 | Photobucket
Nissan 3 Photo by Steelart99 | Photobucket
Nissan 2 Photo by Steelart99 | Photobucket
Nissan 1 Photo by Steelart99 | Photobucket


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

Good pics, Steel. Thanks.

Dang, thought I'd get it right away.

It looks like some version of E15S (or earlier). But, there's something about it - maybe Calif or Canada or Japan or UK (Sunny) ... ???

In the air cleaner pic, the housing itself looks E15S but the vacuum motor is too close to the air housing - as I recall. I thought it was further out near the end of the intake itself. And, the vacuum motor is too big to be E16S. Plus, the 2 bi-metal temp sensors (idle adjust sensors), the black air temp sensor to their left, and the A/B valve air inlet at the bottom of the housing on the right just inside the air filter, AS ORIENTED are ALL not E16S - earlier config ... would have to be E15S or earlier. The carb barrels are not positioned the same as E16S either, so must be E15S or earlier; they are positioned 90' off.

That's the BPT to left of the air housing and the EGR underneath it. Both were parts on the E15S. (And, E16S, but they were NOT in those positions.) PCV filter looks right, but again, the orientation of entry is not what I recall - 180' off.

Sorry, can't be definitive.

Keep us posted.


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Car guy said:


> Good pics, Steel. Thanks.
> 
> Dang, thought I'd get it right away.
> 
> ...


Ha! Well, this was not destined to be easy was it. I truly appreciate your input; it certainly gives me a starting point. At least I should be able to replace the distributor and wires. There is really no telling what this history of this Frankenstein machine is. Frankly, I think the previous owner's toolbox consisted of a welder and a roll of electrical tape ... and he didn't know how to use either! I'm spending my time cutting out the ugly, mismatched, misaligned parts and then trying to put it together to be strong and functional. It will never be "pretty". 

I still need to figure out how to adjust the carburetor. It has been a lot of decades since I've had to do anything with a carb. BTW, can you tell me where the engine ID plate might be on this thing? I've looked, but can't spot it.


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

The E series engines simply had a large E on the bell housing just to the right of the oil pan on the radiator-facing side (facing the radiator). 

How many wires coming off the carb?

Which of these is on the carb?
AFR (2 wires)? Richer solenoid (2)? FICD (2)? IAC solenoid (2)? Mixture heater (2)?

Can you post a pic looking straight down the carb (showing both barrels and the orifices)?

What are the various #s on the ECU label?


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Car guy said:


> The E series engines simply had a large E on the bell housing just to the right of the oil pan on the radiator-facing side (facing the radiator).
> 
> How many wires coming off the carb?
> 
> ...


I just had to cover everything up on the engine ... incoming snow storm. I should be able to get back out and get some pics / info sometime this weekend. I'll also have to translate the acronym 'greek' in your post 
I don't pretend to know everything about carbs, but I can learn about anything.
Thanks


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

Snowstorm. Dang, wish we were there! Love snow!


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Car guy said:


> The E series engines simply had a large E on the bell housing just to the right of the oil pan on the radiator-facing side (facing the radiator).
> 
> How many wires coming off the carb?
> 
> ...


I have a serious access issue with this engine. No way I could ever see the bell housing. So ... I don't know about the AFR, Richer, FICD, IAC or Mixture heater ... sigh. All I can do is post some pictures showing the carb. There may be an ECU on this somewhere, but I could not locate it given the access issues.

I know, not much help. 

Here are a few pics that might show you a bit more ... so that you might be able to help me ... a bit more.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h87/Steelart99/P1020534.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h87/Steelart99/P1020536.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h87/Steelart99/P1020537.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h87/Steelart99/P1020528.jpg


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

Okay, the additional pics helped! So, it was earlier than the e15.

The carb appears to be from a 310 circa 1978-79. Carb appears to be an A14. The dashpot, FICD and IACV, secondary diaphragm, and pump arm are all in the correct places for a 310 with A14.

BUT, the air cleaner does not appear to be from a 310 with A14. The air cleaner appears to be from a 720 pickup truck circa 1980. That explains the vacuum motor being so far up the air cleaner housing; and, it explains the orientations of the bi-metal idle compensators and the air temp sensor. The A14 air filters and housings were more oblong, whereas the 720 pickup air cleaners were round like yours. Those 720 air housings were from an L20B engine.


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

*Frankenswine*



Car guy said:


> Okay, the additional pics helped! So, it was earlier than the e15.
> 
> The carb appears to be from a 310 circa 1978-79. Carb appears to be an A14. The dashpot, FICD and IACV, secondary diaphragm, and pump arm are all in the correct places for a 310 with A14.
> 
> BUT, the air cleaner does not appear to be from a 310 with A14. The air cleaner appears to be from a 720 pickup truck circa 1980. That explains the vacuum motor being so far up the air cleaner housing; and, it explains the orientations of the bi-metal idle compensators and the air temp sensor. The A14 air filters and housings were more oblong, whereas the 720 pickup air cleaners were round like yours. Those 720 air housings were from an L20B engine.


So I've officially dubbed this skid steer as Franken-swine ... 'cause it likes to play in the mud and dirt like a pig and is cobbled together from all kinds of parts.

CG, I really appreciate you being able to narrow this down for me. Not something I'd ever be able to figure out. I can't tell you how much time I've spent googling Nissan engine images trying to make sense of what I have. Now that I can look up an A14 carb, I can see that it does appear to be what I have, albeit a bit more dark and greasy. I'll try to get the carb adjusted tomorrow (weather permitting) and see if I can get the engine to stay running. I can get it to run sometimes for a brief period and the engine sounds solid, so I have great hope. I'll report back.

Thanks again!


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

You're welcome. Following your progress with interest. You'll have to let us know what triage was necessary on the carb.


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

OP here. 

So using the identification of this carb as an A14 (Thanks again Car guy) I purchased a rebuild kit for the carb. Taking this thing off was a nightmare, but I finally got there. I cleaned and rebuilt the carb using as many parts as possible from the kit (springs, gaskets, o-rings, etc) and then reassembled and installed it ... again, a nightmare. It absolutely did help! I was able to start the engine with full choke and keep it running with the choke backed off a bit, but not fully backed off. At higher rpms, the engine settled down and ran smoothly. As soon as a backed off the throttle, it started running rougher.

Now, I went to adjust the idle mixture screw (there is only one adjustment screw) and it doesn't seem to do anything. It did have an effect before the carb rebuild. Might I have done something to block the mixture function when I rebuilt this thing? It is hard to tell from the diagrams that I have. I hate to pull this off again, but I may have to just to try to figure out what is going on.

Anyone have any thoughts???


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

Know what you mean about the nightmare of disassembly and reassembly. They were one of life's lessons in tediousness and patience (frustration) ... and a few hard consonants.

One could do (literally) 80 steps correctly and have something go wrong on just 1 or 2 steps.

When the carb was disassembled, did you carb-spray clean-out ALL passages and jets from each chamber? And, did you follow that up with compress-air directed through ALL passages and jets from each chamber?
Multiple times each?

Did you energize and test and clean the FICD/IACV when they were out?
Was the mixture heater tested while it was out?
Is it kicking off once the CTS reaches temp?

Have you looked at the dash pot to see if it needs slight adjustment?

Sounds like it is running too lean. IACV partially allowing excess air at low RPM (teeny dirt build-up around pintle allowing wee bit more air through)? But, open correctly at higher revs (the teeny build-up not a factor then).

The mixture screw is precision. One thread (or less) of one screw turn can make or break idle.

What is the idle RPM?

Where did you get the kit? Have pics of it by chance?

Keep us posted on your progress.


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Car guy said:


> Know what you mean about the nightmare of disassembly and reassembly. They were one of life's lessons in tediousness and patience (frustration) ... and a few hard consonants.
> 
> One could do (literally) 80 steps correctly and have something go wrong on just 1 or 2 steps.
> 
> ...


Good afternoon CG.

I did not spray out all the jet passages multiple times. I just went over everything about one time with an air hose after having the carb parts dismantled and soaking in carb cleaner for a while. I wire brushed off the huge layer of crud ... and maybe was not as meticulous as I should have been.

Never thought to try to energize anything when I had it apart ... doh! I am truly a carb moron and did everything as close to the instructions as possible. I got the kit (735C) from Rock Auto and all the parts seemed to match what I had on the carb. It appears that the kit covers A14 and A15 carbs. (link: 1976 NISSAN B210 1.4L L4 Carburetor Repair Kit | RockAuto ) I can pull the instructions and add a picture of those if that might be helpful.

I have no idea on the RPM at idle, but I can look and report back. The setting on the idle was originally at about 2-1/2 turns and that is where I tried to start when adjusting it. I turned it about a 1/4 turn and let it run there for awhile to see the effect. Then adjusted 1/4 turn again and repeated for for both directions. From totally closed to about 4-5 turns. I really did not notice any changes

It sounds like I should probably take the carb off again and dismantle / clean it a bit more thoroughly. Live and learn.


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## fiddlerere (Feb 16, 2017)

I laughed so hard when reading the bump posts.


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

fiddlerere said:


> I laughed so hard when reading the bump posts.


 Glad to lighten your day. You now have enough posts to 'post' pictures. Turns out it takes 10 posts ....


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

Hang on ... before re-doing the carb (I wouldn't do that, at least not now/yet) and potentially introducing another issue or more issues, is there a small orifice (hole opening) on the side of the carb wall UNDER the main butterfly plate? You'll need to move the throttle linkage and shine a light down to see. The hole should feed (inside the carb chamber) to the idle channel and on down through to the mixture heater. Try carb-spraying (with the small straws that come with the car-spray cans) into that hole to clean it. That may improve the idle. The idle set screw may still need to be adjusted after. Ensure the small straw stays in the spray can's nozzle and does not fall down into the carb.

When you mention wire-brushing, what surfaces exactly got wire brushed? Were the (sensitive) horizontal surfaces of each of the carb chambers scratched - left uneven, especially around their perimeters - now possibly allowing unintended air flow in at a gasket as a result of this? I would visually check all gasket sealings.

Also, do you see a so-called PTC or Mixture heater relay in the engine? If so, lay your fingers on and around it when someone starts the car COLD and see if it clicks on. Then, keep your fingers on and around the relay until you feel it click off. Does it click on and then off? Depending upon where you're located/temps, it may take several minutes for the relay to click off. If it does, your CTS is probably okay, as is the mixture heater. Also, can you ohm your CTS when it is cold (car off) and when the idle is acting up? What are those resistance values? 

Also, there is a secondary diaphragm and secondary throttle plate correct? If so, is the secondary plate closed at idle? Or, is it slightly ajar/open, allowing extra idle-undesired air in? Maybe it's linkage is disturbed and needs tweaking.

Also, is the accelerator pump arm back at its originally alignment (not slightly lifted up)? The arm should be such that the steel flow ball at the bottom of the chamber be in it seated position at idle. 

Let us know how things proceed.


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Car guy said:


> Hang on ... before re-doing the carb (I wouldn't do that, at least not now/yet) and potentially introducing another issue or more issues, is there a small orifice (hole opening) on the side of the carb wall UNDER the main butterfly plate? You'll need to move the throttle linkage and shine a light down to see. The hole should feed (inside the carb chamber) to the idle channel and on down through to the mixture heater. Try carb-spraying (with the small straws that come with the car-spray cans) into that hole to clean it. That may improve the idle. The idle set screw may still need to be adjusted after. Ensure the small straw stays in the spray can's nozzle and does not fall down into the carb.
> 
> When you mention wire-brushing, what surfaces exactly got wire brushed? Were the (sensitive) horizontal surfaces of each of the carb chambers scratched - left uneven, especially around their perimeters - now possibly allowing unintended air flow in at a gasket as a result of this? I would visually check all gasket sealings.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the details on evaluating this! When I wire brushed things, it was not at any of the gasket surfaces; just on all the external surfaces. This is on a skid steer, so everything tended to get covered in grime. Pressure washing will only go so far. When I took the carb off, it was just a dark greasy lump ... I actually had some difficulty in even finding screw heads to disassemble it.  

Because of the extreme difficulty in getting this carb off and reinstalled, I may not have the bottom set of 4 mounting nuts torqued to any specified amount. The are well set, but not hard torqued. I may have to make a custom wrench to get into the nuts to verify that I have set them well enough that the gasket would not be leaking (fairly easy for me to do with a spare open end wrench). 

I'll have to look at the carb picture details to ID the PTC and CTS. Sorry ... I'm still a carb moron. 

I'll get back after I walk through these steps with a report. Thanks again CG.


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

steelart99 said:


> I actually had some difficulty in even finding screw heads to disassemble it.
> 
> Because of the extreme difficulty in getting this carb off and reinstalled, I may not have the bottom set of 4 mounting nuts torqued to any specified amount. The are well set, but not hard torqued. ...
> 
> I'll get back after I walk through these steps with a report. Thanks again CG.


You're most welcome.

Yes, access to the bottom nuts/bolts is a big issue on these. Know that pain.

They don't require exact torquing (my experience), so long as they pull the chambers snug - and not overly so, so as to not crunch the gaskets.

Was there a gasket UNDER your mixture heater (between its bottom and the IM's top)? And, was there 1 or 2 of those gaskets? And, was there coolant under the mixture heater at those gasket(s) through an IM channel to cool the carb bottom?


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Car guy said:


> You're most welcome.
> 
> Yes, access to the bottom nuts/bolts is a big issue on these. Know that pain.
> 
> ...


Yes, there was a gasket under the mixture heater (a single one). I simply don't recall for sure if there was coolant under the mixture heater ... but I don't believe so. Is that significant? Is that part of the A14 design?


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

If the gasket under the mixture heater had a small extended-oval cutout region on one end (end closest to firewall most likely), then they may have routed coolant through an IM channel to help warm up and then cool the carb bottom (icing prevention and subsequent cooling). Did you take pics of the disassembly and the IM you could post?


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Started the engine with full choke. I can open the choke a minor amount after the engine warms up for a minute or two. Any further choke adjustment kills the engine. Idle adjustment mixture screw still does not seem to do anything when screwed in/out. Throttle seems to be working okay, although any rapid change will kill the engine. Idle RPM tends to be about 2500 - 2800 rpm when I adjust the throttle to the lowest setting where the engine will continue to run.

Okay, so I've been mis-identifying what the mixture heater was. Digging through various images, it appears that it is the dome shaped cap covering the choke plate. I do not have a mixture heater on this carb ... although there probably should be one here. How much does that affect the choke operation?

I did as you recommended and sprayed choke cleaner into the small hole below the butterfly. I'm not sure it did anything as the orifice opening continues to appear 'wet' (like the channel is plugged). I tried sliding a thin, soft wire down the hole but only got about 1/4" before it stopped. It could have been that I just hit a bend in the channel that the wire would not pass through. 'shrug'

The secondary diaphragm looks like it is closing properly at idle and moves smoothly. Hard to tell for sure looking down through the opening. The accelerator pump arm is back to it original position. I did replace the ball bearing, but nothing else changed on this component.

I'm not making much progress here. It also dawned on me that I need to make sure the vacuum tubes are all connected / connected properly. It may behoove me to get some new vacuum line to replace all of them anyway. Another alternative might be to just replace the entire carburetor (under $100 on eBay) which is not really my preferred route, but still an option.


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

steelart99 said:


> Started the engine with full choke. I can open the choke a minor amount after the engine warms up for a minute or two. Any further choke adjustment kills the engine. Idle adjustment mixture screw still does not seem to do anything when screwed in/out. Throttle seems to be working okay, although any rapid change will kill the engine. Idle RPM tends to be about 2500 - 2800 rpm when I adjust the throttle to the lowest setting where the engine will continue to run.
> 
> Okay, so I've been mis-identifying what the mixture heater was. Digging through various images, it appears that it is the dome shaped cap covering the choke plate. I do not have a mixture heater on this carb ... although there probably should be one here. How much does that affect the choke operation?
> 
> ...


So, re-reviewed your pics; I had thought the so-called thermostat cover over the choke was simply removed during the picture taking; but, you're saying it's not on the car at all (and you don't have it); well, it's purpose is to auto-adjust the choke as the car warms; without it there, excess air is going straight in, right? Consistent with running too lean.

Yes, entirely probable the teeny wire ran into a bend/turn. 

On the hoses, I had just presumed all those had been checked and replaced as necessary (either before carb tear-down or during).

On the entire new carb, it likely will require adjustment, which can prove challenging to get all conditions stable. But, if it has a temp-controlled choke, and everything finishes checking out, then pursuit worthy.


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Yep ... a major 'DOH!!!!'

I'm not sure the the missing cover lets air in or not. I'll have to look at it again to see if there is a path there. If so, you are right in that it would help explain running lean. That said, wouldn't the thermostat be out of the air control path once the engine has warmed up? i.e., it wouldn't make any difference?

I'd checked all the vacuum lines and there were no leaks; but that was before I went through all the gyrations to pull the carb off. I suppose it's possible to have damaged them along the way. I also just wanted to verify that I had not hooked the lines up to the wrong location (trying to cover all possible 'error' sources) and/or damaged a line along the way.

I can get a thermostat cover from RockAuto for about $42. That said, I don't recall seeing a stray wire that it would hook up to. Then again ... I wasn't looking for one.

Somewhere along the way I need to figure out all the various vacuum lines / air lines / hoses that I can remove and plug off (emission control, etc.) to help clean up the overall engine configuration. Some obviously don't do anything that I can determine.


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

Okay, so normally, the thermo cover would be on the choke chamber. It would seal off all excess air. When the thermo cover detects cold, it would leave the choke closed. Then, as the engine warms, it would slowly, proportionately, open the choke valve to begin metering in more air, which would pull fuel with it. 

As is, air can gush in, since the cover isn't there to block it off. And/or, the tiny choke plates are no longer precisely aligned/loose. 

Seems consistent with the high throttle RPM also. The RPM idle works at high 2500-2800 because the pump arm is up and the bottom pump check ball is open (away from the blocking orifice/channel) so the fuel is flowing through the carb body along with the excess choke chamber air that matches the inbound fuel. As soon as the pump arm is lowered to a point beyond which the excess choke air can match (14.7 to 1) the engine leans too much and stalls. 

Having said this, it would not surprise to still have an issue and calibration-need after the new cover arrives.

I see the RA thermo covers. Dang, nice they're still available. Just 3 left. What good fortune.


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

So apparently, whoever had this before had basically changed this over to a manual choke. There is a choke cable running to the choke plate that I'll have to remove to change back over to an automatic choke. I hope that works. I am getting a bit frustrated with this issue. Updates as I can get further along. Thank you for your help CG.


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

Yes. And, I was looking at some of the choke pull-offs and saw one with a hole in a small metal plate under the pull-off. Not sure if your cable end (on the new cover) is supposed to snap into that pull-off or elsewhere (and if your car even has that type of config). Did you pursue the ebay carb (also)?


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Car guy said:


> Yes. And, I was looking at some of the choke pull-offs and saw one with a hole in a small metal plate under the pull-off. Not sure if your cable end (on the new cover) is supposed to snap into that pull-off or elsewhere (and if your car even has that type of config). Did you pursue the ebay carb (also)?



The eBay carbs at under $100 were all manual choke carbs. I had not realized the difference when I'd looked. Automatic choke carbs are $250 to $400. Ouch. So, no I had not pursued it. I supposed I could always get a new manual choke carb (which is all I have now) via eBay. I have some of my hydraulics pulled apart now (the engine powers a big hydraulic pump) so I can't work on the choke issue this week. I'll get back to it next week ... assuming I get all the hydraulic issues worked out. Whatever happened to "simple problems" ??? :crying:


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Well, I'm back after quite of few months. I finally gave up on the carb and bought a new manual choke carb for $50. Installed it and the engine ran!!! I then kept messing with the choke because the engine never ran except with the choke almost full closed. Eventually, I found and plugged a vacuum leak and VOILA ... the engine ran fine with the choke fully open. However ... sigh ... I only ran it for about 30 minutes and the engine just shut down and could not be restarted.

FYI, I still can not positively identify this engine but believe it is a A14 (B210, B310) from the late 70's to early 80's. 

So, I checked the coil and got 1.0 ohm on the primary and 9.9K ohm on the secondary ... can anyone tell me if this is correct ... I believe it is based on a Rockauto description of a coil for this engine. (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=940830&cc=1209899&jsn=4568&jsn=4568&jsn=4568). There is no external resistor for this coil. There is 11-12V coming from the coil to the distributor (static check) so the wires seem OK. But when I crank the engine, there is no spark to the plugs. Huh????

Can anyone help me figure out what might be broken? I seems like it is the coil even though the primary and secondary reading seem correct.


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

Coil pri and sec #s are good. 

Can't see the pics any more, but if the power transistor failed that would explain no spark.


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

Afternoon update: 
Background - I had to rewire this entire thing since it was worse than any rat's nest. There were loose and disconnected wires everywhere. I did this last weekend and the engine ran fine (30 minutes)

So, I got a new coil to install, but as I was disconnecting the wires I opted to leave off some wires attached to the coil I could not ID quickly and retest. Guess what ... it started right up with the old coil. What I found was that I had a wire from the tachometer to the POS side of the coil, which is appropriate, but that seems to be what was shutting the coil down. What I have to figure out now is why the coil did not function with that wire attached, since it actually ran that way for about 30 minutes before shutting down.

Someday I'll get past all this!


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## steelart99 (Nov 13, 2016)

EUREKA !!!!

I finally found the engine ID info on this beast. The last owner had bolted the coil over the area where the ID was stamped.

So, it is an A12A engine (58HP), likely from a 1980-1982 B210 or B310. Fortunately, all the parts I'd purchased, using the A14 engine guess, seem to fit and work okay on the A12A.

Going forward, the correct ID will be helpful.

Can anyone tell me what the serial number engine ID means? It is 141290.


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## Car guy (Mar 31, 2016)

Congrats on unraveling the mystery!


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