# 88 V6 3.0 SE pickup starter or solenoid?



## KA24Ewoog (Mar 30, 2004)

Hello all,
Never had to post on this forum because the truck has always ran so well! Until now that is.

No problems starting whatsoever, no indication that something was going wrong with the starter or otherwise, and I drive this truck 7 days a week. It's never acted up once.
Battery is good, cables are good as far as I can tell, and I keep the engine in good shape, clean and maintained well. 195K miles.
I drove it to get gas, turned if off while filling it, got back in and when I turned the key, nothing. No clicking, no grinding, no turning over etc. but the dash lights and all came on, the door 'chime' was going on (had the door open) and the voltmeter on the dash showed 12V. 
Came back later and tried to jump it, and even with it hooked up to my wife's Volvo it acted the same, I was unable to jump start it. Came back the next morning, and was able to get it to turn over, BARELY, but just enough to start the engine. This was by jumping it with the Volvo again. Once it started it ran fine.
So it was running great, etc. the dash volmeter showed 14+ V so I drove it home and parked it. Tried to start it again immediately and the same thing: Dash lights come on, volmeter shows 12, when I turn the key that final turn to start it, the voltmeter drops and the engine doesn't turn over. I do get clicks though, sounds like they are coming from relays in the engine comp, and the solenoid is clicking too....but no starter engage. 
This is the same with trying to jump start it. I had wife turn key and I was under it and I know I heard the solenoid click.
I've also ran a lead directly from the + battery terminal to the + starter terminal and still no change. Had to stop because of rain but I'm guessing the starter has seized in place or something like that? I beat on it a bit while having the wife turn the key, still no change.

I appreciate any advice and help anybody can throw my way. 
Good day and thanks -
LB


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## veesix (Jul 18, 2004)

Have you ever replaced the battery, the starter, or the alternator? My truck has been through all three, at about the same 195K.


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## KA24Ewoog (Mar 30, 2004)

Hi veesix -
Yes the battery is fairly new and in good shape, cables are fairly new and in good shape..the alternator hasn't been replaced by me so I'm assuming it's original, I'm not the original owner. Starter looks the same...probably original too.
I searched some threads and read a little, and I'm guessing the starter is hosed. I can hear the solenoid when I turn the key, and I can hear relays clicking too. I'll go ahead and replace the starter and post back with a result. I've done this before on other cars but the difference is that they at least gave me some sort of warning that they were going out (slow crank, dragging, etc. sort of thing) this one was just suddenly dead at the gas station!
Thanks and good day -
LB


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## KA24Ewoog (Mar 30, 2004)

One more thing, I read about the 'starter interlock relay' and will check it this afternoon before pulling the started. I have a relay box over the passenger's wheelwell, with the realys labeled on top, and then a couple of other relays forward of those that are not labeled.
Does my truck even have a starter interlock relay? Anything else I should check before yanking this starter (it'll probably rain on me again today HA)
5-speed manual, V6 3.0


man thanks -
LB


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## KA24Ewoog (Mar 30, 2004)

*UPDATE: got it started but.............WTF?*

So I came home today and bypassed a relay there on above the wheel well, the blue one with 2 plusg into it and a wiring diagram on it...jumped 3 to 5 which would close the relay....still no dice, just clicking of other relays and what sounded like the solenoid but I was inside the truck so not 100% sure. Tried to jump start it with wife's Volvo, still the same....just relays clicking. The dash lights come on, voltmeter shows 12V until I turn the key....SO I took a 500 amp portable jump starter from the garage, hooked it up, and it turned over VERY VERY slowly but JUST enough to start the engine! The voltmeter now shows 15-16+ volts, so I know the alternator is charging. I drove it up and down the street, ran perfect, pulled into driveway, turned it off, turned the key back on and nothing. Just dash lights, relay clicks. 
So why does the 500 amp jump starter turn the starter over but jump starting does nothing?
And the voltmeter on the truck dash shows 12V when I turn the key, 15-16V when it's running? I'm lost now HAH many thanks though to all that can help. I appreciate it.
Once again 5-speed V6 3.0L 1988 SE
LB


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## Humanure (Feb 15, 2007)

Read *this* article about diagnosing starting problems. I think you might have a problem with the ignition switch. Try the articles ignition switch test first before dropping money down for a starter.


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## KA24Ewoog (Mar 30, 2004)

Very cool article...thanks! I'll print it out and give it a shot tomorrow after work.

I took the 500 amp portable jump-starter out and tried it twice....both times it started the truck but damn the starter turns slow and the battery seems dead as hell now even when the truck runs for a while. When the truck is running though, the volmeter reads exactly what the alternator is supposed to be putting out, so it drives great. Just can't turn it off on the way to or from work HA
I'll figure it out soon, can't be too bad...especially compared to the two old Saabs I used to have. 
Anyway I appreciate the help, thanks again and good day-
LB


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## KA24Ewoog (Mar 30, 2004)

OK I tried a couple other things with no luck...here's a quick recap:

1. Turn the key, voltmeter on dash shows low battery. Dash lights come one including the battery light. Turn the key and nothing but relay and solenoid clicks until the battery is too low to do anything. No starter turn.
2. Jump start with wife's Volvo, voltmeter on my dash shows 12V, turn the key and nothing but relay and solenoid clicks same as above but more clicking since it's hooked up to her car.
Her Volvo is running during this jump start attempt.
3. Tried #2 aboce, with connecting + jumper cable lead from wife's Volvo to + battery cable on truck going directly to starter, + cable disconnected from truck battery. Same results. Wife's battery is 650A Bosch.
4. Ran straight lead from + battery terminal in truck directly to truck starter, with same results..starter sill won't turn.
5. Removed relay and jumped with wire, same results. 
6. Tapped and whacked all relays, starter, and solenoid. Same results.
7. No obvious broken or corroded cables or wires, all look good and connections are good.
8. Used 500A portable jump starter and truck started although the starter was very slow.
9. Got truck running, drove to work today 17 miles, and when I turned the truck off and turned the key back on, the volmeter only showed 6-8V from battery. I used the portable jump starter again this afternoon to start the truck, drove it home, and same thing when I got home...turned it off, turned key back on, battery low as hell. 
10. When the truck is running, the voltmeter shows 16+ volts from alternator, and has since I've owned it. It runs great but won't f-ing start! 

Why does the portable jump start turn the starter, yet jump starting with the Volvo that has a 650A battery doesen't? 
Any help appreciated on this old POS truck!


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## 88pathoffroad (Jun 6, 2004)

Starter's shot, probably needs new brushes. When mine went it did the same thing. Rebuilt it on the garage floor with a new set of $7 brushes and it works fine now.


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## KA24Ewoog (Mar 30, 2004)

Yeah the more I look at everything, the more I'm sure it's the starter too.

What I can't figure out is why the battery won't charge when the alternator is putting out what it's supposed to....perhaps the dead starter has fried the battery also? I also can't figure out why the portable jump will turn the engine over but the jump start from another vehicle won't.....but whatever, I'm tired of trying to figure it out. I'll replace the starter this weekend or rebuild it like you have. BTW, where did you get your set of brushes/rebuild kit?

Hey also, since you have the same engine as my truck, WTF is up with the thermostat? 
Is it meant to be changed only when you do the timing belt? I can't figure out any other way to access the thing! 
Anyway I appreciate your response, and will post back after I get the truck fixed...maybe it can help the next guy who gets ahold of the V6 3.0.......

Good day sir - 
LB


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## KA24Ewoog (Mar 30, 2004)

OK I spent all day outside in the driveway in Atlanta heat trying to figure out WTF is up with this truck! I read the above article back and forth, used the meter on everything possible, replaced the starter and solenoid, and the truck still won't start. All of the relays are good, the battery and everything is good, I've used a screwdriver to crank the starter by jumping the two large terminals...the starter turned just fine. I've done the same with the solenoid by connection power directly to the from the battery, and the starter engaged and turned the engine over.

Here's where I'm at: there doesn't appear to be power at the connector that plugs into the solenoid. Now I'm not sure if power is even LEAVING the ignition switch because I'm not sure which wires at that location to test. I pulled the steering console cover off, and the plug that goes into the back of the ignition switch of course has wires coming from it, but I don't have a wiring diagram to know which 2 wires send power to the solenoid. I guess what I'm saying is I don't know if power is even leaving the ignition switch to get to the solenoid. If it is, then the connector at the solenoid (or wiring in between) is bad. If power is not leaving the ignition switch, then the switch itself must be bad. I've checked everything else, jumped everything I can think of, and now it's down to this! Any help appreciated! 
1988 SE V6 3.0 king cab 5-speed.


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## KA24Ewoog (Mar 30, 2004)

double checking myself, with wife turning the key, there's 12V at the battery, and 12V at the plug you plug the solenoid into...coming from the battery/ignition switch. I just got this starter from Autozone today, and I've also used a screwdriver to engage the starter by putting it across the 2 terminals....so WTF am I missing? 
Also, I put some pliers from positive battery cable connected at the starter to the spade connection going to the solenoid, giving it power straight from the battery. There are 2 wires from the female connector on the solenoid...one red, one green. I initially hooked power to the red wire and nothing happened. I tried the green wire and the solenoid engaged, starter engaged, and it turned the engine. 
Now here's what I can figure out...the green wire? Is that correct?
When I plug the connector from the battery/ignition switch into the connector at the solenoid, the power wire coming from battery/ignition switch, the one I checked that has 12V to it, does NOT plug in or line up with that green wire at the solenoid! That plug connects only one way. It's almost like the solenoid on this new starter has the red and green wires reversed. 
Any ideas? I'm not sure what to do except take the damn thing back to Autozone. 
I don't have the old starter anymore for reference so I'm lost. There's power to everything righ up to that solenoid connector.
Thanks to all who can help.


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## KA24Ewoog (Mar 30, 2004)

PROBLEM SOLVED! 
that F-ING starter i got from Advance auto has the connector to the solenoid wired backwards....it only plugs in to my connector coming from ignition switch one way and one way only, and the wires on this new starter are reversed. i clipped the connector from my truck, put power wire straight to power spade on solenoid plug, and BAM she started right up.
good day all!


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