# Questions about b12 4wd wagon



## jt94130 (Jan 18, 2006)

I recently came across a 4wd wagon for sale while looking for a beater car that I can take to the mountain during the winter season. In searching for more information on this model I found that there is very little info out there. This forum was probably one of the better sources.

My questions about the car are pretty basic: 
1) How reliable is the 4wd system? 
2) Where can I readily get parts? (I tried searching for OEM Nissan parts and a lot of the suspension components state "excluding 4wd")
3) The current owner stated that there is a small oil leak....should this be a HUGE red flag or not?
4) If everything checks out, will this car be a good weekend snow warrior to get me to and from the mountain regularly?

Thanks in advance, hopefully I'll be a regular member here in the near future.


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## Biscuit (Mar 5, 2005)

I havent really heard anything bad about the 4wd system. I think its a rare find and I wish I coulda found it. There shouldnt be any difference in engine parts between the sedan and wagon but the suspension is definately going to be different. If the engine has an oil leak then there is most likely a faulty seal or gasket. How many miles is on the car? Also dont forget that you can get motors for these cars REALLY cheap...I got a GA15 for my car for 370 shipped with 40k on it. Check ebay out. The B12 Sentra is about the cheapest car to operate and most efficient I beleive. You seriously need to hit that deal up. Give us more details about it!


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## jt94130 (Jan 18, 2006)

Thanks for the reply. Here are some details: 105K, 5sp, needs new windshield and leaks oil. Everything else is pretty much on par for a 16yr old car. 

Anyone have any ideas on where I would find parts for the car? Especially parts that are only for the 4wd model. When i tried to look up rear suspension parts I couldn't find anything.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

I know a little about these cars.  

They are a good design and are not plagued with any of those horror story type problems. The 4WD system is reliable and offers tremendous traction in the winter. Unfortunately, Nissan didn't bother to add any additional power for this model. The additional 350 lbs. of 4WD equipment does slow it down some. To help in this department they added 4:47 final drive gears that give it good grunt in lower gears, but make the car less fun on the highway, as it revs about 4-k at 75 or so. That is the one thing I am not thrilled with. 

Parts are getting hard to find as Nissan is discontinuing a lot of the chassis parts that are unique to the 4WD model. The engine is the same as any other B12 Sentra. I have been buying some NOS Nissan parts for mine and storing them for the future. I've got a brand new flywheel, which is unique because it uses a 200mm clutch instead of the 190mm for all other B12's. I've also got a new fuel tank and a pair of rear control arms with bushings in them. I scored a new power steering rack [cheap] from OEM Surplus. They have four 4WD p/s racks left he said. Interestingly enough, the 4WD p/s rack has a faster ratio than the other B12's. I like that.  I recently bought a new rocker panel from Nissan for it too as one of mine had a few bubbles in the paint on it down low. It takes a good parts man to find these parts. Lazy ones will tell you it's "NLA". Good parts men will check all of the other channels to find parts in other dealer's inventories. I bought new heater hoses, antenna, dash pad, and idler arm for my '77 Datsun B210 last year...right from Nissan!

105,000 miles is nothing for one of those [if it was taken care of]. Look for rust in the rear wheelwells and upper strut towers. If the oil wasn't changed regularly, I have seen the oil rings on the E16i's get stuck on the pistons and cause oil smoke at idle. The GA16i's had great bottom ends, but suffer from early timing chain failure with lack of oil changes. Oh, the 4WD B12's were all throttle body fuel injected. No carbs were ever on a 4WD model. 

I swapped a *GA16DE* into mine, but that's another story.


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## jt94130 (Jan 18, 2006)

:thumbup: Awesome post.

Thanks for the info. I've been looking for items which I think may need to be replaced, shocks, clutch, bushings, etc...basically wear items. It's hard to find some parts that will fit on the 4wd, especially for the rear suspension.

I'll go check the car out and see what else may need to be done besides what the owner stated. 

If anyone else has any other advice on what I might wanna specifically look for when I test drive it let me know.

Thanks again.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

jt94130 said:


> :thumbup: Awesome post.
> 
> Thanks for the info. I've been looking for items which I think may need to be replaced, shocks, clutch, bushings, etc...basically wear items. It's hard to find some parts that will fit on the 4wd, especially for the rear suspension.


***** This is exactly right. the rear struts in the 4WD models are not available anywhere but from Nissan. I got two new ones two years ago. The front suspension stuff is easy to get. Also ask if the clutch has ever been changed. This is a big job and will cost far more than a 2WD Sentra. If the car has had a clutch and it's not too rusty, I'd say go for it.


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## jt94130 (Jan 18, 2006)

Thanks man! I'll let you know how it goes.


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## SENTRASER (Jan 6, 2005)

Yo, mike, how much did you pay for the steering rack?


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

I believe it was $112 shipped. This is for a *brand new* 4WD power steering rack. It didn't come with the outer tie rod ends and the rubber boots.


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## SENTRASER (Jan 6, 2005)

blownb310 said:


> I believe it was $112 shipped. This is for a *brand new* 4WD power steering rack. It didn't come with the outer tie rod ends and the rubber boots.


did it come with the inner tie-rods? thats a smoking hot deal either way!! what about the rear subframe that you bought, how much was that?


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

No the rack didn't come with the inners either. The rear control arms I bought were right from the dealer, not from the OE Surplus guys. They were J coded meaning they are NLA. My parts guy went the extra mile and did a search from other dealer's inventories to find a set of rear arms that were left over in someone else's stock. I'll bet they were *relieved* to get rid of those obsolete parts.


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## SENTRASER (Jan 6, 2005)

Wow, so I better stock up now on weird SH1T! My current nissan dealer wouldn't even order a FSM for me, he gave me the phone number to order one direct from this company that sells them.:lame:


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

SENTRASER said:


> Wow, so I better stock up now on weird SH1T! My current nissan dealer wouldn't even order a FSM for me, he gave me the phone number to order one direct from this company that sells them.:lame:


 You see them on Ebay every now and then. Just use "4WD Sentra" for the search. Be careful because the '87 manual did not include the 4WD models. It had a supplemental additional booklet for them. The '88 and up manuals should cover the 4WD models.


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## Eyor (Jul 7, 2009)

*Help with B12 4wd parts*



blownb310 said:


> I know a little about these cars.
> 
> Oh, the 4WD B12's were all throttle body fuel injected. No carbs were ever on a 4WD model.
> 
> I swapped a *GA16DE* into mine, but that's another story.


I just bought an 87 b12 4wd sentra and it has a carb? I am lost, I thought I read some where that between 87 and 88 is when they switched to injection. My first car was an 83 sentra 5 speed with the same engine that is in my b12 4wd wagon. I also, a while back, used to have a standard 89 b12 which was injected. Am I mistaken? 

The hardest part has been looking for the shocks, especially rears. I hope that I can pick your brain because you are the only one popping up in my searchs.

My long running fantasy would be to pull everything out and put a GTI-R 2.0 pulsar engine with rear transaxles and the whole nine yards. But am not seeing anything about this other than parts have been swapped up to a B13 and it was really modded to get 4wd. Sounds slightly more work than starting with the b12 4wd.


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

87 and 88 sentras come with an e-series engine, either the e16s carb or e16i TBI engines.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Eyor said:


> I just bought an 87 b12 4wd sentra and it has a carb? I am lost, I thought I read some where that between 87 and 88 is when they switched to injection. My first car was an 83 sentra 5 speed with the same engine that is in my b12 4wd wagon. I also, a while back, used to have a standard 89 b12 which was injected. Am I mistaken?


Take another look under your hood, are you sure your carburetor isn't actually a throttle body injector unit? They look pretty similar. Simple way to tell: if the air cleaner has one wing nut it's carbureted. If it has two wingnuts, it's injected. If you in fact do have a carburetor, then someone replaced the engine at some point and deleted the computer, etc. I don't know why anyone would do that though. As I said earlier in this thread, all US 4WD B12 Sentra wagons [and Sport Coupes too] were E16i [throttle body injection].


Eyor said:


> My long running fantasy would be to pull everything out and put a GTI-R 2.0 pulsar engine with rear transaxles and the whole nine yards. But am not seeing anything about this other than parts have been swapped up to a B13 and it was really modded to get 4wd. Sounds slightly more work than starting with the b12 4wd.


I had that fantasy too. I've got a GTiR transaxle [two of them actually] and thought I could mate it to a non turbo SR20DE from a B13 SE-R. There are differences in the two blocks and the SR20DET blocks are notched out to clear the 4WD transfer case. The SR20DE isn't notched out for this. The flywheel bolts are of a larger diameter on the DET too. All of this plus the clutch release system is hydraulic for the GTiR trans and I couldn't find any room on the firewall to mount a clutch master cylinder. So I bagged the idea and went with a GA16DE with a turbo.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Eyor said:


> I read some where that between 87 and 88 is when they switched to injection.


I for got to address this question earlier. Yes, the last year for carburetion on the B12's was '87, but this applies to the sedans, 2WD wagons, [and rare 3 door hatchbacks] only. The '88 to '90 B12's were all throttle body [a.k.a. electro injection]. However, the Sport Coupes and 4WD wagons all had the electro injection one year earlier in '87.


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## Eyor (Jul 7, 2009)

*Rear Suspension cannot be found.*

I added my b12 4WD photo to my signature. It needs suspension badly but this wagon gets as many looks as the 240sx that is for sale.










I have called everywhere with no luck! Anyone good with spec'ing KONI race inserts?

The only logical recommendation that has been made was to get the equivalent in a KONI race insert. This means cutting what is there and I am not sure, but I might want to completely replace what is there anyways.

One other thought is that I was able to find part numbers for the Euro sunny 1.6 AWD KYB. These sounded the most promising but the least returnable with the international transaction fee and the euro transaction rate and is seemed like 200/shock, what to do?

I was thinking I could buy good new skeletons and cut those up for the KONI inserts, replace the bolts, poly bushings, and dust boots.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

You checked with your Nissan dealer parts dept? They're NLA?

Hey, I linked your pic to my 4WD Sentra Roll Call thread *HERE*. Please tell us more about your car. Where'd you find it, how much work you did to it, etc. 

Mike


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

So did your car end up having the electro injection or a carburetor?


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

blownb310 said:


> I had that fantasy too. I've got a GTiR transaxle [two of them actually] and thought I could mate it to a non turbo SR20DE from a B13 SE-R. There are differences in the two blocks and the SR20DET blocks are notched out to clear the 4WD transfer case. The SR20DE isn't notched out for this. The flywheel bolts are of a larger diameter on the DET too. All of this plus the clutch release system is hydraulic for the GTiR trans and I couldn't find any room on the firewall to mount a clutch master cylinder. So I bagged the idea and went with a GA16DE with a turbo.


it is not as hard as you would think.....i have a n13 pulsar with a gti-r power train and b12 rear end and subframe.....all you guys would have to do is use the front bar and mount up engine mounts the drive shaft should bolt up....and of course the wiring harness and ecu...and upgrade the fuel pump. mine was running an avenir with gtir tranny and drive shaft....it was an ice racing car ...i am restofying it and gonna build a 2.3liter stroker gti-r motor(dont ask its gonna cost alot and take awhile!) along with a grocery list and a half of mods to the car...
you can check it out at The Nissan EXA / NX Club - since 1997 down at the bottom in the US/Canada section...
you should be able to mount the clutch cyclinder up above and to the right of the brake booster ill try and get a picture of mine....
and the notch ill take pictures of my upper oil pan where it is notched out too
There are several people that have done or are doing the swap of a sr20det and awd into a b12z(of course you already have the rear awd setup),n13, and b13(have used the gtir-r rear end and subframe!the awd sentra is a much easier swap)

and the awd sentra ROCKS!!!


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## alfsentra (May 24, 2006)

I want the tranny.... hehehehe!!! really!!! any info: [email protected]


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## Eyor (Jul 7, 2009)

It is TBI? (not carberated), or has the idle fuel control canister, it needs to be replaced to cold start and idle correctly. I have a stock parts list for the suspension through to the tailgate lift shock supports. It is about 4 almost $500. That is only the obvious. I did see a busted CVboot on the front. 

*I still need help with suspension help!!!* The rear KYB's that have been speced are just the closest FWD version. Will they work and will they suck? I am guessing both are possible.

I saw someone out there outlined the actual difference between the normal and 4WD specifications. I read it, copied it, and now I can't get anyone to help me match these specs into a koni insert that will suffice for my rear or for that matter to out perform the stock suspension as a whole. The write up about the suspension was so good that it even has me thinking I might keep my original springs even. 

I called KONI North America because it is less than 10 miles from me. They pointed me to KONIracing.com and to decifer the charts at the web site. I am still alittle lost. I am thinking, isn't there a truck shock that is closer than the KYB's I have speced?

My goal: to make the wagon more enjoyable to drive. Prepare for winter and family snowboarding!

1. Start and idle correctly. Already sounds pretty good.
2. Drive smooth and not bang around so much.
3. Easier to shift, both shifter and petal. needs original stick with 4WD activator.
4. Make it look better. Replace some of the getto interiour. Body/rust work and think about returning it to the original red color.


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

why dont you come down and check out my gtir coil overs....if they bolt up then you can use b13 suspension parts! much much easier to find....i can help find you some suspension parts and want to check out your wagon! you can check out the only n13 awd pulsar in the world!!:fluffy:


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## Eyor (Jul 7, 2009)

I am not sinking a bunch of money into just the shocks when I need to buy bumps, boots, and all new bold and camber adjusters to insure I can make this work. I most likely will keep the stock springs. I am now torn on whether I should order the KYB's GR-2's for the b12 or if the b13 application might be better for my 4WD wagon application. Damn this sucks I might just have to order them and cross my fingers. I am not crossing my fingers so much about fitment as I am about which might be closer in spec’s or better for performance. I have this gut feeling that the b13 GR-2’s are what will work better. I was thinking even about getting the b12 front and the b13 rear. Ahwaaahhh! I probably will just get some b12 GR-2’s though.

I do want to checkout your n13 sometime. Is it up and running? I went to start the wagon this weekend and the battery is dead. I really want to get a few things worked over before I start driving it too much. I know it made the trip back from Chi-Town but it needs to be babied. It has an oil leak at the pan, the lugs need to be replaced with all suspension around, new transmission fluids, and a new idle control. Other than that once she is warmed up she drives well. I am missing the original shifter with 4WD actuator (that is mounted in dash). The shifting needs some attention too, not as smooth as I remembered in my old b12.


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

go here to check out my n13... awd-t 87 pulsar ...... - The Nissan EXA / NX Club Forums

i would go with b13 agx and either stock springs or some eibach sportlines..jmtc
i have used this set up in the past and was very happy with the results.

come on down and check out the n13 project ...you have my number im free wed nights...and im off thurs and friday for the next three weeks give a shout!


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## Eyor (Jul 7, 2009)

*b13's rear shocks work on a b12 wagon with some work*

Okay here it is. I did end up ordering b13 KYB G-2's because KYB said it came closer to the stock specs the b12 wagon called for on the back and to be consistent I ordered them all the way around for a b13. I only have the rear on because it took all day but they did fit pretty well over all. I thought I would have to shave the brake line brackets off but they didn't seem to be in the way of anything on the back. Although the bottom holes are slightly too far apart so I decided it was easier to file the top hole down a bit.










I was really scared when the first strut I pulled was so different in length. 










Then I figured there was no return at this point. Literally because I can't return them now. When I pulled the other rear it was closer in size and length, I felt a little better and thought why not continue. So I ended up with two different struts on the rear and they had different dust boots, bump-stops, and even had different spring perches. 










I have lowering spring but with winter coming up I may hold onto them until spring, unless someone want to buy them. 










I hope they settle a little because now with just the rear installed I seems kind of raked-out, the back sits really high. I will drive it around in the morning and see.










I will keep you posted on the front.


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

should of called me I would have been more than happy to help swap the suspension....

and how much do you want for the drop springs?? hehe
give me a shout as I will have my wagon down here friday afternoon!!!


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

i am making rear disc conversion brackets.....( i hate drum brakes with a passion!!)
will have a couple sets for sale.....


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## sonicgundam (Aug 15, 2007)

TOOQIKK said:


> i am making rear disc conversion brackets.....( i hate drum brakes with a passion!!)
> will have a couple sets for sale.....


will these work with regular b12's and kn13's.

and Eyor, it is unfortunate you bought b13 parts, as many of the companies make wagon specific struts. just need to look for them.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

TOOQIKK said:


> along with a grocery list and a half of mods to the car...
> you can check it out at The Nissan EXA / NX Club - since 1997 down at the bottom in the US/Canada section...


I can't find it. Can you leave a direct link to your car Tooquick?


TOOQIKK said:


> you should be able to mount the clutch cyclinder up above and to the right of the brake booster ill try and get a picture of mine....


I'd love to see where/how you mounted the clutch slave cylinder. Can you post the pic please?


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

sonicgundam said:


> Eyor, it is unfortunate you bought b13 parts, as many of the companies make wagon specific struts. just need to look for them.


Yes, but not for the rear of the 4WD B12's.

Eyor, how's the car sit now? Tell us what you ended up using for struts please.


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

unfortunately the knuckle heads on the exa site pissed me off so i deleted the thread....
ill take some pictures of where the slave cylinder is mounted(the strut tower did need to be "gently massaged" to get clearance to mount it)

mike if you want i can email some of the pics to you. have them on my laptop....


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

mike check the link again the thread is back up....it will be modified soon...as I am taking a different path with it and the wagon...but has some good pictures of some of the work being done to the n13...will start the wagon thread soon....working on the brakes(nx2k fronts, and maxima calipers and jdm rotors on the rear w/altima m/c and nx2k booster)


eyor...hey ill give you call...sorry couldnt talk the other night...need to come look at your wagon to check couple things out before i begin working on mine...also am interested in the drop springs ....


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## Eyor (Jul 7, 2009)

sonicgundam said:


> and Eyor, it is unfortunate you bought b13 parts, as many of the companies make wagon specific struts. just need to look for them.


Fortunately I did much research, and the "exc" means excluding, so if you can find some rear stuts that fit the correct weight and performance spec please by all means enlighten us all. The closest I was able to find were struts from the UK that were for the Sunny 4wd wagon and cost about $300 American after shipping with exchange rates and extra fees.



blownb310 said:


> Eyor, how's the car sit now? Tell us what you ended up using for struts please.


It sits pretty good. I did end up using the b13 KYB G-2's. I also took off the 17" five spokes and threw my 200sx 15" rims, like you have on, and it isn't so slammed now. I am really happy with my choice and for the money I couldn't beat it. Snowy pic below.










I have always had warm-up idle issues and am struggling any thoughts I replaced the idle controler that looks like a can and still am hunting any vacuum leaks. I am at a loss right now. Once wamed up it runs great.












TOOQIKK said:


> i am making rear disc conversion brackets.....( i hate drum brakes with a passion!!)
> will have a couple sets for sale.....


I am interested in the plates, looks like you have them on yours. Is that right?


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

Eyor said:


> Fortunately I did much research, and the "exc" means excluding, so if you can find some rear stuts that fit the correct weight and performance spec please by all means enlighten us all. The closest I was able to find were struts from the UK that were for the Sunny 4wd wagon and cost about $300 American after shipping with exchange rates and extra fees.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i am in the process of making some....I have been working way too much and still have about two weeks before it slows down at work:thumbdwn: and then will start working on them again....the measurements i had from an online source didnt match:balls: so i have to measure everything and then make a new template so I can get them cut out and finished.


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

Roye,

Any updates on your wagon? What have you been up to?

Mike


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## TOOQIKK (Jul 11, 2009)

Hey Mike Ill give him a call as he lives fairly close to me and speak with him now and then...

side note have been averaging 42-46mpg with my b13 and bested 51.3mpg....just installed a JWT ECU last monday...and been "enjoying it" this week but still am tracking better gas mileage than when I just drive normal so I know it has made a positive improvement!
When I get a week were the weather isnt crappy and now that we are out of the "season" Ill track my mileage and post it up on ecomodder.....

i still have two 87 rear end assemblies and a power rack with lines and pump sitting in my garage so if any one needs them....let me know....preferably some what local so can pick up or meet half way....

mike you should come out the convention in june! check out sr20forum or the dash for more info if you havent...I plan on bringing out my lil hypermiler!


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## blownb310 (Jun 10, 2002)

TOOQIKK said:


> Hey Mike Ill give him a call as he lives fairly close to me and speak with him now and then.


 Cool thanks.


TOOQIKK said:


> I still have a power rack with lines and pump sitting in my garage so if any one needs them....


That 4WD power steering rack would be a great upgrade for anyone with a B12 who wants to speed up their steering ratio. The B12 4WD wagons had faster steering than any other B12 [with manual or p/s].


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