# Roll Cage



## DILLIGAF Racing (Sep 23, 2002)

Is it a pretty smart idea to put a cage in my classic before I get too serious with either autocross or road course's? Not only for safety, but I have seen alot of you guys have bent the frame from racing.


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## cranium (Oct 8, 2002)

me personal: yes. that only cause i have one and have raced with it. it kept the inside rear only a couple of inches off the ground instead of a foot(i have pics)


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## barnoun (May 7, 2002)

Just be careful when driving on the street...you don't want to hit your head with the steel tubing if you have an accident.


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## cranium (Oct 8, 2002)

> *Just be careful when driving on the street...you don't want to hit your head with the steel tubing if you have an accident.*



this is VERY true. when i have mine in, my head will hit the roll cage by "tilting" my head. you could put pads on it but even then it probably would hurt if you got into an accident.


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

barnoun said:


> *Just be careful when driving on the street...you don't want to hit your head with the steel tubing if you have an accident. *


I wear a helmet 24/7..doctor told me to for some reason  


cranium, do you think you could send me some pics of your cage?


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## cranium (Oct 8, 2002)

sure but you will have to give me a couple days, it's been out of the car for almost 2 yrs now so the bolt-in pipes are a little rusted. by that i mean that the removable side bars and the ones across the windshield. 

is there info you need about it or are you just curious about how it looks?


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Thanks,

Just curious. I see in your sig that you have the 6 point. I was considering that when I had big plans. Now that I have set more realistic goals for my car I am considering the 4 point. The reason I want a cage/bar at all is that I once my car is better preped I plan on hitting alot of auto-x's. I would like to gain the stiffness benifits of a cage/bar and I am a firm beliver in using harness ONLY in conjunction with a cage/bar. Reason for the harness..I'd like to stay IN my seat  Do you have any opinions on the 4 point(race bar) from I-O Port? I'd like to hear them.


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## cranium (Oct 8, 2002)

cool. as far as the I-O, im not sure since i already have one i don't keep up on other offerings. the autopower fit very very well IMO. when i auto-x'ed i used a the 3" cam lock MOMO 5-point harness(got a good deal on it). well the stiffness increase is astronomical. after my wife took it out of the car(she did it in 30min by herself)for the kids, the car seamed to handle like a caddy, comparitively speeking. the differance between 4 and 6 point is (to me) considerable. the 4 point will only stiffen from the hoop back. the 6 point will help from the front of the door back. people would be suprised to know just how much the car flexes. when i put the cage in i had it all bolted together just not to the floor and i ran up to the store, on the way there i put my hand between the bar and the headliner from the door side and it damn near broke my fingers. after i bolted it down to the floor it wouldn't budge a bit.


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

My bad I ment to say the Autopower cage FROM I-O. Well if it helps from the hoop back, than thats some improvement. I really dont want to put a full cage in the car, Thanks again


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## DILLIGAF Racing (Sep 23, 2002)

Aren't the MOMO belts now illegal? or is that just in Road Racing? Oh well, anyways, I have help put Autopower bars in many cars. Its not that hard to do, just time consuming. Big thing you need to do is have the car as close to level as you can get it, otherwise the car won't be straight when it is all bolted up (does that make sense?). One thing about the Autopower bar, is that they are meant to go into cars that have full interior's still. The first one we ever did was going into a race car, so obviously there was no interior. The plates didn't want to line up with the floor properly, because the compensate there cages with the carpeting and padding on the floors. If you are putting on into a car thats gutted, just gets I think .75 inch plate steel to help compensate if needed. Have fun, I know I will when one goes into my car!!!!


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## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

First, you only *NEED* a roll cage if you hit something or something hits you. There is nothing inherent in automotive competition that will bend the car. Bending a car without hitting something or driving off the track indicates a car too flexible to make a good racer.

SCCA recommends roll bars and bolt-in cages for autocross, but it's not a requirement. They are all for safety, however. A bolt-in roll cage will give you some chassis stiffening.

SCCA *REQUIRES* roll cages for road racing. No ifs, ands or buts. I would think that NASA also *REQUIRES* roll cages for road racing.

For driver education events or other non-competition track events, roll bars or cages are not a requirement, but, again, you gain some chassis stiffness in the name of safety.

For the street, a roll cage is really just a statement about you, not an improvement of your car.


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## cranium (Oct 8, 2002)

i think you get more than "some" chassis stiffness IMO. and as far as "bending" a car, my sentra will flex like crazy without my cage. 


oh by the way, gravitational force is inherent in racing to bend a car. i.e. enertia(sp?)


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## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

We are having a terminology problem here. Are you trying to prevent *flex*, where the chassis distorts but returns to original position after force is removed, or are you trying to prevent *bending*, where the chassis distorts and remains in that new position after force is removed?

A bolt-in cage won't provide much chassis stiffness. When I say bolt-in, I picture a four-point cage with pads in the front footwells and behind the front seats that is allowed by SCCA for street cars.

A welded-in cage can significantly increase stiffness because you can make a 6-point cage that attaches to the rear strut towers. Even better, an 8-point cage with tie-ins to the fire-wall.

Yes, the Sentra is a flexi-flyer when it comes to road racing.


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## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

bahearn,
I agree with your points on stiffness when comparing welded vs. bolt in. What if I were to tell you I plan on welding it. Since I can see you know your stuff when it comes to racing, I would like your opinion on my plans concerning cages/bars.
1999 B14 4 door.
Autopower race roll bar(4 point,not 6 point cage), welded.
Some sort of very supportive seat, non-recline.
4 or 5 point harness mounted to cross bar.

My situation.
Its mostly a daily driver, rarely have passengers. Want to auto-cross, and would like the stiffnes benifits. No matter how small they may be. Every little bit helps, right? Would also like the saftey benifits. Lastly I want a harness and good seat so that I can concentrate on driving, not holding myself in place. However, I would never run harnesses with out some sort of roll protection, which brings us full circle back to the topic.


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## cranium (Oct 8, 2002)

the aformentioned terminology confusion is correct, if trying to prevent flex, anything helps. if trying to prevent bending, well a cage will help vs. not having one. and my 6 point IS bolt-in.



> DILLIGAF Racing





> Aren't the MOMO belts now illegal?


why is that?

my cage wouldn't fit unless i cut an X in the carpet and take out the pading under the carpeting. that might just be an anomaly(sp?)though.


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## DILLIGAF Racing (Sep 23, 2002)

Why is what? The MOMO belts? I remember hearing they were made illegal by SCCA. This was like a year ago. I just remember that cause when we built our cars, we made sure not to use them. Who knows. As for the cage, we put when in a civic, and had to make plates for them. Just how it had to go in. But we have put them in a couple of other cars that had full interior with no problems at all.


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## barnoun (May 7, 2002)

Even in cars with full interiors though, aren't you always supposed to move the carpet and attach the cage/roll bar directly to the metal? That's what I've always known...


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## cranium (Oct 8, 2002)

*



Even in cars with full interiors though, aren't you always supposed to move the carpet and attach the cage/roll bar directly to the metal? That's what I've always known...

Click to expand...

 * 

with mine the carpet is in the middle of the cage and the metal but i took the padding out. what you say make perfect sence though.


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## DILLIGAF Racing (Sep 23, 2002)

We've done cages before and didn't take the carpeting out at all, just have to be a little careful when drilling so you don't snag the carpet


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