# very frustrated, will not idle,dies



## Guest (Jan 9, 2003)

Hello folks,
Car trouble here, after running a search I thought Id post to get some opinions..
The other day i was cruising along and the NX just lost power, stumbled and died.
After some cranking got it started but it didn't want to run. It had low power and was a bear to keep running. would surge and then begin to die then surge again.
I managed to keep it running long enough to get home luckily, but it died again right away.
I was revving it above 2500 to keep it going. Below that it quickly died.
I looked under the car to check out the cat (I've had it go out on me before and it was red hot this time as well).
I figured that was the problem and removed it. I didn't want to replace it just to have it go out again before I diagnosed it's problems.
Unfortunately that does not appear to have been the problem, only a symptom.
After removing it I started the car and noticed it still ran rough and wanted to die.
After revving a few times it settled down and would idle for a bit. 
About a minute later as it warms up it begins to run rough and then dies, unless I revv it up to keep it going.

It's been running great, at least power wise, last April it wouldn't pass DEQ and I had it tuned, checked the o2 sensor, replaced the fuel filter and had an Envirotek treatment which helped it run quite well. However it still failed DEQ.
Turned out the cat I had installed wasn't heating up.
Replaced that and it passed DEQ.
Ran well till now.
My thoughts are;
Check the fuel filter, check the cap and rotor, check out the AAC valve, check the O2 sensor at Nissan dealer.
It seems to be running rich from a plug inspection. Has good plugs and wires. 
Im not sure it will even run well enough to get to the shop.

On a possibly related note while I was putting around a buzzing noise (like an alrm clock or something) started coming from the center console under the radio. It would buzz for a minute then stop then start again intermittently.
THis was with the ignition off and the vehicle just sitting there.
I quickly removed the kick panel and located a green four prong relay which plugs into the metal box on the trans tunnel. I think the metal box is the diagostics ECU. I removed the little buzzing sucker and can't tell what it is.

Anybody have help for a shade tree mechanic hopelessly over his head??


----------



## phastphuker (Jan 3, 2003)

Are you sure your wires are good, mine were actually bad and it would run simalarly but not die. My cat is hollow so I would not know.

Check for a vacuum leak. Also check your intake hook ups and make sure they are secure.

That's all I can think of.


----------



## Raul (Sep 12, 2002)

In addition to Spark plug wires -- check electrical connections to your fuel injectors; are fuel injectors clean --- and my No. 1 guess: what is your fuel pressure -- sounds like your fuel pressure regulator may have failed and your pressure is high (runs better when cold because when cold, it needs to run rich anyway).

Good luck.


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2003)

Thanks Raul and Jack,
Im thinking fuel problem myself.
An inoperative fuel pressure regulator would give these symptoms if the pressure was too high. Forcing fuel through the system to burn in the cat.
Where is this pressure regulator? Is it part of the pump?

Do you know what the green relay is that is freaking out?
Appreciate your suggestions.


----------



## James (Apr 29, 2002)

So if you try to drive it what does it do again? It'll start. It'll idle rough or idle low? Do you have a K&N type filter? How long have you had it if you do?


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2003)

Hi James,
No K&N, its a totally stock set up.

Haven't tried to drive it since I started working on it.
Don't think it would get far.
With the cat out of the way now the symptoms are the same.
Starts rough and wants to die, after a few revs it will idle for about a minute then dies again. I can keep it running if I continuosly rev it but it will die below 2000 rpm.

The wires appear to be in good shape, no melting or grime, they are OEM, not in contact with the head etc.


----------



## James (Apr 29, 2002)

Try unplugging the MAF sensor and running the car again, if it's the same symptoms then it's your MAF.


----------



## James (Apr 29, 2002)

Ok, I was just reading my post and it can be misleading so I don't want you to go buy a MAF for no reason. Sorry when I reply I don't think too much about what I'm saying until afterwards...

If it's the same symptoms then it MIGHT be your MAF since a bad MAF would create similar symptoms... 

sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Raul (Sep 12, 2002)

I am only familiar with 91 Sentra 1.6 and don't want to mislead you with too much detail, I'll comment generically.

FPR is usually at the end of the fuel rail. Never seen one anywhere else, but I guess it could happen. Should have a vacuum line coming to it, as well as the fuel inlet, and fuel return.

Optimally, you should take a reading of the fuel pressure. As a quick alternate, find the return line from the FPR and attach a small vacuum hose to it (2-3 ft long) and put the end in a jar or can -- find a way to fasten it, as it may have some pressure. Start the car, if regulator is working, at idle, you should have quite a bit of fuel returning to the tank (now to your container). If not, it is being pressurized in the fuel rail and injectors.

Other suggestions above are good too. Another thing to consider is that one of the sensors (coolant temp, TPS, MAF, etc) may be faulty and that is why it runs better when cold (and in open-loop mode).

Hang in there.


----------



## Guest (Jan 11, 2003)

Went out and bought a Haynes manual today, the one for every Nissan1982-1994! Sheesh, you'd think they could get a little more specific.
Anyway it looks lke the buzzing green relay is the relay that controls the Electronic Fuel Injection.
Calls to the Nissan dealer appear to confirm this, in stock around $20.
However none of the mechanics I talked to would verify my diagnosis that that was the problem. "Could be or not. Should bring it in."
I went out to check the fuel pump operation and decided to crank it over to see if it would work without this relay. I didn't expect it to work at all but it did.
It ran for a while and idled somewhat rough till it warmed up then died.
I plugged the relay back in to see if it would run worse, no change.
Its cold today so it took a while to warm up, about 3-4 minutes toward the end it was surging between 200- 800 rpm nearly dying every 8-12 seconds in a regular cycle. Very interesting. I put it in gear to see if it had power and it died immediatley....very intersting.

So my thinking is that this relay is inoperative but only comes into play when the engine warms up and then modulates fuel delivery via the fuel injection.
At this point Im prepared to go buy one and see if it fixes the problem.
At least its not that much money to risk...


----------



## phastphuker (Jan 3, 2003)

See if your local automotive shop lends tools, such as a code reader. Rent it if you have to, take it home and plug it in and read the codes. They (the codes) are listed in your Haynes. Also, try to do this FIRST: disconnect the neg term to your battery let it sit a while, reconnect and restart. Doing this allows your computer to reset to the new parts you have applied. Your computer will compensate for such problems as O2 getting clogged etc. The relay is another possibility as you stated, your Haynes also gives you info on how to test if it is bad or not. Very simple you don't even need an ohms meter, though that is a helpful tool in future.

By the way my name is not Jack the sig is smart ass in nature.

"Hello my name is Jack Squat, don't expect much from me" 

And don't say your sorry or my bad you didn't know.

It's Fred, but my friends call me AssHole.


----------



## 16valve (Dec 9, 2002)

my car did this same exact thing- no codes or anything. its your gas... well at least mine was. i got some gas that was horrible- and somehow it brought rust up from the bottom of my gas tank and got clogged everywhere in my fuel system. it would do the same exact thing yours was doing...so i fianally got a thing of injctor cleaner and some 93 octane gas(full tank) cranked a big and finally it came to life no problems at all and hasent had one since.


----------



## toolapcfan (Jul 10, 2002)

Sounds like you're on the right track, probably a fuel delivery issue, I'd be checking fuses, relays and get a fuel pressure gauge, which you can check to see if the FPR is bad or the pump is bad. I had a bad pump on my '84 Mazda B2000 pickup and it drove but bucked like an SOB the whole time. Anyway, keep us posted on your progress. If you find it's not fuel delivery, it could be timing, TPS, MAF, vac leak, IAC-AAC, Air Regulator. I have the same haynes and it has decent troubleshooting.


----------



## sunnysentra (Jul 24, 2002)

you need to get that thing on the Nissan Consult computer. This is the only way to diagnos the issues. They may charge you 50.00 to put it on, but don't fool with sensors, get the entire setup checked out. You may have a bad ECU, an MAF, Regulators rairly go, but, put a pressure unit on and read that. Check the Coil for strong spark. Mine shorted out and the car would never start, then bang it was on and off and on. Idled crappy and from trying to start it, the injectors were dumping fuel and it saturated the plugs and fouled them out. My guess is fuel management, because the Cat is getting too much fuel, Running rough can either be the dumping of fuel and not enough spark, or not enough spark from the coil. Get a spare coil and also try that, get a good MAF and try that. Clean the AAC valve and make sure the plunger is not clogged with carbon. 
Chris 92 classic


----------



## kleensleeper (Jul 28, 2002)

Could be your fuel pump also.


----------



## Guest (Jan 18, 2003)

I don't have any advice, but I sure wish I did because my car is having similar issues. I told several mechanics about this and they seemed unsure of what it might be. Luckily for me, my problem isn't as serious.When I start my car, the revs go up and down several times before mellowing out at about 1000 or 1100rpm. Maybe 1 in 25 times the revs dip down to nothing and the engine dies. The majority of the time though, on about the second or third dip of the revs, the engine almost dies, shakes, and then the revs come up and stay up. This same dipping behavior will sometimes also occur when I engage the clutch coming to an abrupt stop at a light or stopsign. The Nissan Consult computer might be my best bet as sunnysentra suggested. Any suggestions that anyone else has would be greatly appreciated. I'm brand new on this site, but it seems great. 
Thanks a lot
Stone V
91' se-r


----------



## DanniNX (Jan 7, 2003)

Stone V said:


> *I don't have any advice, but I sure wish I did because my car is having similar issues. I told several mechanics about this and they seemed unsure of what it might be. Luckily for me, my problem isn't as serious.When I start my car, the revs go up and down several times before mellowing out at about 1000 or 1100rpm. Maybe 1 in 25 times the revs dip down to nothing and the engine dies. The majority of the time though, on about the second or third dip of the revs, the engine almost dies, shakes, and then the revs come up and stay up. This same dipping behavior will sometimes also occur when I engage the clutch coming to an abrupt stop at a light or stopsign. The Nissan Consult computer might be my best bet as sunnysentra suggested. Any suggestions that anyone else has would be greatly appreciated. I'm brand new on this site, but it seems great.
> Thanks a lot
> Stone V
> 91' se-r *


I've had the same problem, only I don't think of it a a problem any more, I just learned how to keep it running and it still deliveres the same amount of hp. My guess still is that it's related to the auto-choke since (at least in my case) it stops after the engine has warmed up.


----------



## phastphuker (Jan 3, 2003)

*UPDATE?*

Did you figure it our yet?

I had a similar problem but I just installed a CAI, there was an issue with the hose between the intake and the intake manifold, it was crimped, no air flowing between the two, I fixed it and it ran fine. Another major issue is that we all seem to assum that all of your connection for the air intake on your vehicle are properly seated and made tight. 

If you think it is the FPR, pull the vacuum hose from the FPR and plug it, this will allow the FPR to be wide open, I increased FP by 10lbs at WOT, (yes I had a guage). Neat trick for spraying.

I would still search for a vaccuum leak or a leak aft the MAF.


----------



## toolapcfan (Jul 10, 2002)

Stone V, does your car run good when it's cold but runs worse when it's warm? Mine has similar symptoms to yours. When the weather warms up a bit I'm going to check my IAC-AAC and my air regulator. I can't get my timing set right bcause my idle jumps way up to like 1200-1500 rpm with the TPS connector off. I'm betting my IAC and AAC need to be cleaned and I was doing some testing and my Air Regulator isn't getting voltage. Someone should move this thread to the 2.0L section though.


----------

