# Why am I "swerving"? Ball Joints????



## jharris1 (Mar 13, 2004)

Okay, I have a '93 Sentra. This is my second Sentra and the second one that acts this way. When I am driving at high speeds, I can feel the car shifting around the lane as if it cant stay straight. Hit a bump.... I'm all over the road. If I brake abruptly or suddenly let off the gas from high speeds (65+), the car does it's swerve routine again. (But the struts are good) This does not feel safe at all, and someone mentioned to me that it could be the ball joints seperating from the control arm?? Since I know little in this area are there any surefire ways to know what it could be?? Do these sound like characteristics of worn ball joints or something else or both? Suggestions, please???...


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

check all your bushings in your suspension. you probably need to replace one or more of them.


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## toolapcfan (Jul 10, 2002)

Sounds like you need your alignment checked. Have it set to factory specs for the best driveability.


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## jharris1 (Mar 13, 2004)

toolapcfan said:


> Sounds like you need your alignment checked. Have it set to factory specs for the best driveability.


I took it to Midas and they said the alignment was fine. They also said that the car may be following the road crown. But I know there is something wrong because if that is the case then why does it move around on the highway like it does? There isnt much crown to the road on a freeway. And if that was the case, then Sentras must have some crappy suspensions.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

my car does it too... try checking the bushings like I said before. It also has to do with tire choice too. I have the khumo ecsta 711's and they will follow any line they can find, sometimes spontaneously! i've had the steering jerk me into other lanes very quickly before.


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## Cuban_B_93_XE (Apr 24, 2003)

I experiance the same thing with my new tires. 215/40/16. It will hold any line it finds.


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## Pretty White (May 6, 2002)

> I took it to Midas and they said the alignment was fine. They also said that the car may be following the road crown


Thats the oldest line for an alignment guy who really does not know how to adjust toe. I bet it is your alignment. Did they roadtest the car before and after? Did they make any adjustments for the steering wheel being off? 
It also sounds as if the rear is out. Did you get a 4 wheel alignment? I would recheck the rears.


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## BennittoMallito (May 20, 2002)

Tire pressure ok? My Niss has a habit of wandering. I just found yesterday that the new tires I had put on the pass side are 5psi lower front, and 7 psi lower rear than the driver side tires. 
Midas alignment guys are generally hacks (no offense) they just don't car, and will tell you anything to get you to hand over the cc, and out the door.


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## shingouki1 (Feb 11, 2004)

BennittoMallito said:


> Tire pressure ok? My Niss has a habit of wandering. I just found yesterday that the new tires I had put on the pass side are 5psi lower front, and 7 psi lower rear than the driver side tires.
> Midas alignment guys are generally hacks (no offense) they just don't car, and will tell you anything to get you to hand over the cc, and out the door.


what is the correct tire pressure all the way around?


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## jharris1 (Mar 13, 2004)

Pretty White said:


> Thats the oldest line for an alignment guy who really does not know how to adjust toe. I bet it is your alignment. Did they roadtest the car before and after? Did they make any adjustments for the steering wheel being off?
> It also sounds as if the rear is out. Did you get a 4 wheel alignment? I would recheck the rears.



They roadtested the car and thats when they concluded that the car was probably just following the road crown (angle). Its a pain to drive (on the highway especially), and a pain having to deal with mechanics that BS. I'll recheck the tire pressures all around, but I just dropped them all down to 32 psi. Should the pressures be lower since it is summer?


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## glowsentra (May 27, 2003)

jharris1 said:


> They roadtested the car and thats when they concluded that the car was probably just following the road crown (angle). Its a pain to drive (on the highway especially), and a pain having to deal with mechanics that BS. I'll recheck the tire pressures all around, but I just dropped them all down to 32 psi. Should the pressures be lower since it is summer?


Try taking it to another shop for a second opinion. Couldn't hurt, and most places give free estimates. 32 front, 29 rear is the stock tire psi i believe. You don't need to drop the tire pressure, that will only wear the tread faster.


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## BennittoMallito (May 20, 2002)

shingouki1 said:


> what is the correct tire pressure all the way around?


I keep my 185/60/14's at 36-8 psi front, and 36-8 psi rear. This is the highest recommended on the sidewalls of MY tires. I feel I get better mileage, and handling like this.


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## sunnysentra (Jul 24, 2002)

that must be a steep % of road crown. I think it maybe the tires following the semi-tracks. You know the nice dipping tracks found on poorly constructed highways, like aaa... PA roads.. Drive here and you will go out of control. You have to watch low profile 205 width tires on roads here. they follow the tracks. its not your suspension, Tighten the sway bar endlinks and maybe replace the bushings with energy bushings. New ST bars help the wandering, but lowering the car with tokicos and 2 inch drop will have bad drivebility also. What have you done to the car with suspension? Monroe shocks stink by the way.

Chris


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## jharris1 (Mar 13, 2004)

I think it is actually a suspension component that is wearing. The other day I had some Firestone mecahnics tell me that something was wrong with the belts in my tires (can't remember exactly what), had them replace the two front tires and the problem persists. The steering wheel still rumbles a bit at 65+, and doing anything over 70 feels like a death wish these days. I've had the wheels balanced twice since I had them, I've already thrown out the idea that its the wheels. The way she wanders down the road at high speeds it has to be something that needs replacing. Still, no clicking or clunking on turns or when I hit a bump. Eventually I want to get KYB GR-2 struts and a sway bar, maybe some 14" SE-R rims if I can find some, but for now I have to figure out what this problem is. I do too much highway driving to continue like this or I might die.


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## minute rice sentra (Mar 21, 2003)

My car used to be real bad about going wherever it wanted too, wandering aimlessly on the highway, and the main problem was bad tie rod ends, I replaced them and that fixed the majority of the problem, but I still need to replace the ball joints and all of the bushings. Check for real greasy/ripped boots on the tie rods and ball joints, and jack the car up and see how much slack there is in the suspenion and steering.


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## jharris1 (Mar 13, 2004)

minute rice sentra said:


> My car used to be real bad about going wherever it wanted too, wandering aimlessly on the highway, and the main problem was bad tie rod ends, I replaced them and that fixed the majority of the problem, but I still need to replace the ball joints and all of the bushings. Check for real greasy/ripped boots on the tie rods and ball joints, and jack the car up and see how much slack there is in the suspenion and steering.


Thanks. I would get under and take a look myself but I am away from home and my father's tools so I guess I'll have someone else do a free check for me and go from there.


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## Pretty White (May 6, 2002)

People, listen up. No matter what tires you have follow the tire pressure on the placard. +1/2 depending on the ride you want. I keep mine at 34F 30R. Stock on a NX is 33F 29R. 
I think the SE-R is 32F 29R. The sdidewall is not determined ny your specific suspension, but the actual amount of air safely allowed MAX.


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## siliconmatrix (Feb 25, 2004)

It's called torquesteer, the cv axles are of different lengths, the longer one will flex more then the short one. You may notice when you get on it the car wants to put you in the lane left of you.....this is normal get used to it and compensate for it. 3/4 throttle and under you should be pretty safe from it throwing you into a whole different lane and when you decellerate let of the gas gradually, should prevent it from going into the right lane....


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

torque steer has nothing to do with 'flex'


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## Mack (Mar 18, 2003)

siliconmatrix said:


> It's called torquesteer, the cv axles are of different lengths, the longer one will flex more then the short one. You may notice when you get on it the car wants to put you in the lane left of you.....this is normal get used to it and compensate for it. 3/4 throttle and under you should be pretty safe from it throwing you into a whole different lane and when you decellerate let of the gas gradually, should prevent it from going into the right lane....


Yeah, James is correct, in that "flex" is not the effect that is responsible. Torque steer is unique to front-drive cars because reaction forces created in the half-shafts (which are different lengths) can create uneven steering forces in the front tires. 

I guess I generally drive more conservatively than most of the people on this board (I can't believe how some people drive their cars...makes me want to avoid used cars altogether, but that's another topic), but I still can't believe that someone would experience this much torque steer on a Sentra. Obviously I don't have any huge modifications, so my power output is relatively low, but even under heavy straight-line acceleration I feel relatively little torque steer. I'd say a relatively normal Sentra shouldn't be swerving all over the road just from torque steer. Other cars with far more horsepower & torque, such as the new Maxima, have been noted to experience much torque steer, which is legitimate considering its power.


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## BennittoMallito (May 20, 2002)

Pretty White said:


> People, listen up. No matter what tires you have follow the tire pressure on the placard. +1/2 depending on the ride you want. I keep mine at 34F 30R. Stock on a NX is 33F 29R.
> I think the SE-R is 32F 29R. The sdidewall is not determined ny your specific suspension, but the actual amount of air safely allowed MAX.


I dunno. Personally I like the tires pumped up a bit for economy, and handling. The same way you let them down at the drags for grip. It seems ok as long as they aren't over-inflated, and wear evenly. 

Having driven mainly FWD's and having a heavy foot, compensating for torque-steer has become second nature to me. Although my B12 doesn't do it.


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## Mack (Mar 18, 2003)

BennittoMallito said:


> I dunno. Personally I like the tires pumped up a bit for economy, and handling. The same way you let them down at the drags for grip. It seems ok as long as they aren't over-inflated, and wear evenly.
> 
> Having driven mainly FWD's and having a heavy foot, compensating for torque-steer has become second nature to me. Although my B12 doesn't do it.


Yeah, I follow your thinking. I was under the impression that the placard tire pressure ratings were for the _stock_ tire setup. Maybe this site could help (Pretty White...)

Tire Pressure Guide

Here's the line that people should _"listen up"_ to...

...When you buy new tires, your best inflation pressure guideline is the maximum pressure molded into the tire sidewall...

Why would it make sense to follow the placard tire pressure ratings if you had entirely different tires? I really don't understand the logic there.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

Mack said:


> Yeah, James is correct, in that "flex" is not the effect that is responsible. Torque steer is unique to front-drive cars because reaction forces created in the half-shafts (which are different lengths) can create uneven steering forces in the front tires.
> 
> I guess I generally drive more conservatively than most of the people on this board (I can't believe how some people drive their cars...makes me want to avoid used cars altogether, but that's another topic), but I still can't believe that someone would experience this much torque steer on a Sentra. Obviously I don't have any huge modifications, so my power output is relatively low, but even under heavy straight-line acceleration I feel relatively little torque steer. I'd say a relatively normal Sentra shouldn't be swerving all over the road just from torque steer. Other cars with far more horsepower & torque, such as the new Maxima, have been noted to experience much torque steer, which is legitimate considering its power.


try driving a turbo 1.6... torque steer from 1-3 gear! 

make sure you get the tire at maximum pressure while it hot because if you fill it to max when its cold it could be overinflated after a few miles of driving and over the maximum pressure.


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## Mack (Mar 18, 2003)

James said:


> try driving a turbo 1.6... torque steer from 1-3 gear!
> 
> make sure you get the tire at maximum pressure while it hot because if you fill it to max when its cold it could be overinflated after a few miles of driving and over the maximum pressure.


Well, I hate to be contrary, but you shouldn't fill the tire when it is "hot", the tire pressure "ratings" are for _cold_ tires. Just read this paragraph from the AAA site...




> Whether you find the recommended pressures on the vehicle, in your owner's manual, or on the tire sidewall, the recommendations are cold inflation pressures. _This means that the pressure should be checked and adjusted when the tire is completely cold or after driving less than one mile_. The pressure in a tire rises as the vehicle is driven. Never let air out of a hot tire to reduce pressure to a cold-inflation recommendation.


Tire Pressure Guide

Oh, I don't doubt the torque steer on a turboed Sentra, I bet it is pretty intense .


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

Well difference of opinion.... If the max pressure of the tire is only rated to a certain amount, say 35 psi... and you fill it while its cold to 35 psi the pressure will exceed 35 psi when hot... I think AAA refers to manufactured recomend pressure which is different than what I was referring to above, the tire pressure on the sidewall of the tire.


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## Mack (Mar 18, 2003)

James said:


> Well difference of opinion.... If the max pressure of the tire is only rated to a certain amount, say 35 psi... and you fill it while its cold to 35 psi the pressure will exceed 35 psi when hot... I think AAA refers to manufactured recomend pressure which is different than what I was referring to above, the tire pressure on the sidewall of the tire.


I don't really think that it is a matter of opinion. _They say no matter where you find the rating_, *any* PSI recommendation is a "cold" recommendation. 

That is, the tire is built to withstand more than 35 PSI if that is what it says on the sidewall. The 35 PSI rating on the sidewall is a *cold* tire rating. Obviously pressure is directly dependent upon temperature, and the tire company knows that. Your tire should be filled to the recommended level when it is cold. It will increase as you drive, but that is expected, and that allowance is built in. That's why properly inflated tires (cold inflated) will sometimes look like they sag when your car is parked. Once you drive, however, the increased temperature raises the pressure and the tires operate properly.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

I'm no tire expert. I guess it would depend on if the rating is given for cold or hot...


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## Mack (Mar 18, 2003)

If you need another "opinion" on the matter, check this site. They have a nice diagram and scenario to explain the situation. Scroll down to the heading "How to Check Air Pressure".

Tire Inflation Guide

They say that pressure should be checked and filled to the recommended PSI when the tire is cold. Every PSI rating for tires is a cold rating. 

Think about it...if there was such a thing as a "hot" rating, then how would there be a standard? Your tires are going to be different temperatures depending on a multitude of factors - including weather, pavement type, *how long you have driven*, etc. The only way to ensure no outside interference with air pressure is to inflate while _cold_.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

:cheers:


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## BennittoMallito (May 20, 2002)

wow consider this thread hijacked! I didn't realize this would lead to such a discussion. At least I learned something for once. 
It's cold pressure for sure. More consistent like Mack said. I think I read the tire pressure thing off MK's suspension tuning guide on se-r.net. :cheers:


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## Mack (Mar 18, 2003)

BennittoMallito said:


> wow consider this thread hijacked! I didn't realize this would lead to such a discussion. At least I learned something for once.
> It's cold pressure for sure. More consistent like Mack said. I think I read the tire pressure thing off MK's suspension tuning guide on se-r.net. :cheers:


Well, it's tough to let someone reply with a completely false statement after beginning their post with "People, listen up..." :fluffy: 

I hadn't paid any attention to that post until the other day, and I thought that it should be cleared up. I don't mean to be a jerk, I just want these threads to stay "factual" . Get some new guy looking stuff up, and he scrolls through this thread and reads that he should use the placard PSI ratings on his low-profile 16" tires - now that's a problem!


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

Mack said:


> Well, it's tough to let someone reply with a completely false statement after beginning their post with "People, listen up..." :fluffy:
> 
> I hadn't paid any attention to that post until the other day, and I thought that it should be cleared up. I don't mean to be a jerk, I just want these threads to stay "factual" . Get some new guy looking stuff up, and he scrolls through this thread and reads that he should use the placard PSI ratings on his low-profile 16" tires - now that's a problem!


Who started a post with "people, listen up..."???


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## Mack (Mar 18, 2003)

Pretty White said:


> People, listen up. No matter what tires you have follow the tire pressure on the placard. +1/2 depending on the ride you want. I keep mine at 34F 30R. Stock on a NX is 33F 29R.
> I think the SE-R is 32F 29R. The sdidewall is not determined ny your specific suspension, but the actual amount of air safely allowed MAX.


Settle down, go back a page and scroll up . This is what got me started on the whole tire thing in the first place. I read it long after it was posted and realized that it was wrong, so I decided to address it. It's incorrect, and it is stated as the gospel.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

sorry, e-mistake.


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## Mack (Mar 18, 2003)

James said:


> sorry, e-mistake.


It's all good. I don't want people thinking that I'm a know-it-all either. You know far more about cars, and the Sentra, than I will ever know. I don't get in on too many topics because of my limited knowledge, but for the things I do know, I like to post a lot to compensate :cheers:.


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## James (Apr 29, 2002)

it doesn't matter who knows more. I'm gonna close this thread since it has gotten way off topic on our parts and he has another thread anyways.


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