# Timing with Water/Methanol injection



## yab13e (May 1, 2005)

I know my car (94 1.6) can run 15 degrees timing -with 92 Octane fuel. How much higher can I advance timing and not damage the engine with 50/50 water/methanol injection (SnowPerformance kit) ?


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## FiredragonCT (Sep 1, 2004)

yab13e said:


> I know my car (94 1.6) can run 15 degrees timing -with 92 Octane fuel. How much higher can I advance timing and not damage the engine with 50/50 water/methanol injection (SnowPerformance kit) ?


I would say about 6 degrees


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## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

Is the car boosted?

If not, you may actually *lose* power since methanol has only 60% as many BTUs per pound as gasoline and you're displacing air and fuel with the water. You would have to increase compression ratio to make this a sensible mod.


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## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

yab13e said:


> I know my car (94 1.6) can run 15 degrees timing -with 92 Octane fuel. How much higher can I advance timing and not damage the engine with 50/50 water/methanol injection (SnowPerformance kit) ?



for all that effort, your butt won't even notice the difference, and like Bruce said, you'll likely lose power.

I think you should spend money on _real_ mods first. like intake, exhaust, header, pulley, or turbo.


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## Petrovich (May 13, 2005)

chimmike said:


> for all that effort, your butt won't even notice the difference, and like Bruce said, you'll likely lose power.
> 
> I think you should spend money on _real_ mods first. like intake, exhaust, header, pulley, or turbo.


He won't notice the loss in power the water makes, either... Plus with metanol he'll be just a tad richer than usual (good). Water injection adds a miniscule amount, far less than gas, and even the volume of gas in the mixture is nothing compared to all the air you pump through the engine.
I say, the big upside is that he can run his 15 degrees of advance on 87 gas from a local Crown station and not have holes in pistons  And a clean exhaust system/combustion chamber, too. Water injection alone is not a real power-booster, but still a good thing to have, in my book at least. Less money spent on gasoline/cat converters/plugs/oxygen sensors = more money spent on goodies that make you go fast.


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## bahearn (Jul 15, 2002)

Petrovich said:


> Plus with metanol he'll be just a tad richer than usual (good).


No. Any oxygenate will make a given fuel volume leaner. You have to push more fuel for a given duty cycle to get back to stoichiometry.


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## Petrovich (May 13, 2005)

bahearn said:


> No. Any oxygenate will make a given fuel volume leaner. You have to push more fuel for a given duty cycle to get back to stoichiometry.


Methanol... 2CH3OH + 3 O2 → 2CO2 + 4H2O. Kinda burns by itself in the air, you know. Since it's goode ole alcohol anyway.


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