# road racing an HB and Engine swap ponderings...



## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

Hey guys.. been a long time since I've posted on NF. been busy with too many things in life, including running the Houston Z club and building a 24 hrs of LeMons car..


Scenario: 
After watching me beating the crap out of a 240Z at 24 hours of LeMons this year, one of my coworkers has decided he wants to play next year and is willing to 'donate' his 96 Hardbody to the cause. Body is in good shape, but he hydrolocked the engine during Hurricane Ike. his insurance wrote it off and didn't even bother to come pick up the truck. told him it wasn't worth the gas to pick it up.

woohoo! free truck!

Options:
I have a free 95 S14 (240SX) with an OBD-I KA24DE sitting in it. front end was FUBAR in a wreck. engine and tranny are fine.

Sooo, I'm thinking that a KA24DE swap into the HB will *probably* be the same as putting the DE in an earlier 240SX. 

That gives me a free running truck.

Lower it a few inches and find some wide tires and stiff shocks and drop in a roll cage and it's a perfect LeMons beater! 


So my noob questions are:
1. does dropping the front by rotating the torsion bar decrease spring rate?
(I'll just use blocks in the rear to keep the same spring rate)

2. Any ideas on the engine swap procedure? same as an S13 E to DE swap?

3. Do these have sway bars, or am I on my own there? I have a pile of OEM sway bars from random Nissans laying around. I figure a set of 350Z sways would be easy enough to stick to the frame rails and put some links to the rear axle somewhere. They should be stiff enough to mate with the factory spring rates on the truck.

4. high perf street tires that fit a 15x10" wheel?
I can find all kinds of race slicks and stuff to fit them, but no performance street tires (other than drag race stuff. need stiff sidewall, not soft).


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## dentedsub (Oct 23, 2007)

i'm surprised i'm the first to post. woo hoo for free truck thats awesome!
1. dropping the torsion shouldn't change the spring rate at all
2. no idea
3. there should be one hiding in front,if you can't find it, it probably isn't there. hellwig sells stiffer replacements.
4. this won't be much help, but i saw an add for bfg legalsy tire that they use on rally cars, i want them but can't find a supplier. anyway, bfg radial t/a, or g-force.


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## dentedsub (Oct 23, 2007)

i was just checking, xnay on the g-force, they don't make the right size, sorry.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks for the replies!
Not sure why I was asking if dropping the front would change spring rate. physics says that shouldn't happen. only problem is I want to (probably anyway) increase spring rate up front. I'm sure the rear is plenty stiff enough. Wouldn't know really until I get the thing on track and play with it.

Any ideas how the alignment changes when you drop them? (camber/caster)
I have no problems taking a drill to the chassis or fabbing new suspension mounts to make it work- just don't want to have to if I don't need to.

I never did find any decent street tire sizes for anyhting wider than an 8" wheel. I can find some stuff for a 16x9 though. I guess I'm going to wind up going with a 16x8 or 16x9 wheel. Still plenty of R comp options for that and there's some decently wide street tires as well.


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## dentedsub (Oct 23, 2007)

i've always wondered if i could take the torsion bars off and replace the shock with a coilover. i think i had seen them short enough. i haven't looked at lowering my truck as much as lifting it. so i'm not much help, but i'm still curious.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

IT's always doable. I still don't have the truck in my posession to look at the suspension, but that's always an option- just depends on how much fabrication you want to do!


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## southcuban (Oct 30, 2006)

i think that the harness is diffrent for the single and the dual.. u might have to pull the ecu and harness im not sure i cant remember its been awhile from when i worked on a single to dual swap. but its doable like they said.. if u were gonna race it i would drop it the lowest you can b\c its gonna be a 2wd truck and put some nasty suspencion in it i would do a tubed setup in the back 4 bars 2 lineing over the wheel wells and then 2 the opposite way then have 2 cross in going from point to point. you know what i mean.


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

Would be nice, but this is 14 hours of LeMons... we're limited to $500 total in the car (other than safety items).. so putting a suspension on it like that would put me WAY over budget.


I'll be sticking with the stock leaf springs in the back, dropped w/ blocks. crank the torsion rods up front to lower it and then find some tiny dirt track/sprint car shocks to hold it still.



I know I'll need an ECU for the single/dual swap. I'll pull the FSM for the D21 and for the S13 and see if the wiring is the same for both of them. If so, then I just follow the instructions for the S13 DE swap and go from there.

IIRC, the lower harness- battery, starter, etc are the same for both engines. only difference will be the change of length from the car to the truck.


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## dentedsub (Oct 23, 2007)

just curious, if an e and de are basically the same, can the head of a de be put on an e without too much trouble?


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## zanegrey (Dec 5, 2005)

no........


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## Matt93SE (Sep 17, 2003)

I helped a local road racer put a DE block with an E head together this summer (since the DE block is supposedly stronger and he's required to run the E head)..

It was NOT an easy task. There was lots of custom work and machining to do on the thing to make it work. The timing covers fit differently, and the crank is longer on the DE block, so we had to machine about 1/2" off the end of the crank to make it fit the tranny.

So on and so forth. distribution/timing system is different as well. The E block dizzy runs off the crank and the DE block runs off the cam, IIRC.

It IS possible, but it's not something the average Joe would want to do. I think it would be easier to swap the entire engine and mate the two wiring harnesses.


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## dirtybeats (Dec 23, 2008)

man i have been looking for a website that offers replacement sway bars or anything for my nissan but i cant find, i need a sway bar for my hardbody with sr20 swap the motor is pretty much sitting on my sway bar, and do they even sell performance suspension for the hardbody, there should be a hardbody only website where is it??????????


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## CMax03 (Jan 17, 2009)

dirtybeats said:


> man i have been looking for a website that offers replacement sway bars or anything for my nissan but i cant find, i need a sway bar for my hardbody with sr20 swap the motor is pretty much sitting on my sway bar, and do they even sell performance suspension for the hardbody, there should be a hardbody only website where is it??????????


 NIssan Motorsport catalog


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## CMax03 (Jan 17, 2009)

Matt93SE said:


> I helped a local road racer put a DE block with an E head together this summer (since the DE block is supposedly stronger and he's required to run the E head)..
> 
> It was NOT an easy task. There was lots of custom work and machining to do on the thing to make it work. The timing covers fit differently, and the crank is longer on the DE block, so we had to machine about 1/2" off the end of the crank to make it fit the tranny.
> 
> ...


 Crank... like all the other L blocks 4 & 6 cyl!


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## CMax03 (Jan 17, 2009)

Matt93SE said:


> Hey guys.. been a long time since I've posted on NF. been busy with too many things in life, including running the Houston Z club and building a 24 hrs of LeMons car..
> 
> 
> Scenario:
> ...


 If you mess with the torsion bars yes it will change! Best way would be to obtain some lowered spindles and some sway-a-way heavy duty bars, lowering blocks out back, with some good racing shocks and adjustable sway bars F/R and you can chase anything thru the twisties. So what was your overall finishing position and class finishing position @ LeMans?


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## dirtybeats (Dec 23, 2008)

that nissan motorsport catalog would be great if they had my truck, i guess ill have to call nissan or keep searching for hardbody suspension kits


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## dirtybeats (Dec 23, 2008)

The independent front suspension is very sensitive to modification. It is common to run out of camber adjustment when people try to lift the front end by "twisting" the torsion bars. This is a poor man's lift that causes problems down the line. there is a decent description on d21 suspension here Nissan Hardbody (D21) and Pathfinder (WD21) FAQ - Trucks 4x4 @ Off-Road.com


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## CMax03 (Jan 17, 2009)

dirtybeats said:


> that nissan motorsport catalog would be great if they had my truck, i guess ill have to call nissan or keep searching for hardbody suspension kits


 Hey Dirty,
What kinda truck are you running? I think the torsion bars are all the same between the 2wd and then the 4wd D21 + D22, Nissan Motorsport offers a 2 stage torsion bar setup for the D21's that a fact. But you can check out Sway-A-Way's website cause thet offer higher spring rate single stage and 2 stage torsion bars!


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## dirtybeats (Dec 23, 2008)

i wonder if that bar will clear the sr20 oil pan the stock one right on it. photo comparison?


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## CMax03 (Jan 17, 2009)

dirtybeats said:


> i wonder if that bar will clear the sr20 oil pan the stock one right on it. photo comparison?


place it lower with an adapter plate @ the midship bushings


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