# My Project Z



## Nico Flax (May 3, 2003)

Hello everyon

I'm a newb to the Z corner of these forums, but want to start a real project car since my GA16 was not a failure but just not everything I wanted. Plus I've been wanting to build my dad a weekend car. Anyway just want to get some of your thoughts on all the parts I'm considering to purchase, and what year Z you would recomend. Right now I'm looking at 85 Turbos. Anyway Here is the list of parts I'm hoping to acquire.

Cat back exhaust, ur pulley, act clutch, fin. flywheel, jwt ecu, boost controller from?, jwt cam shafts and springs and air filter from anywhere.

Well thats all the pretty cheap stuff, well... not cheap but you know, now comes the bit more expensive stuff that I really have no experiance with.

New Turbo, hopefully the GT30R from JWT (am I going to need custom work down on the exhaust manfold? or any other work to make it fit? would it be worth it, or just stick with the stock turbo?) the intercooler system from JWT, JWT compressor bypass valve, mass airflow sensor... I also wanted to go ahead and upgrade the fuel pump and rail and injectors but haven't found any parts. 

Maybe I'm getting a little ahead of myself though, I don't want to swap engines or anything, just work on the engine inside. I'm also considering the internals like the crank and pistons, valves, you know all that stuff but wouldn't even know where to begin looking. Well what do you guys think? Should I do some more research before I start? Hope some of you can help me out.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

I would recomend the 87 300ZX Turbo it has the W series engine in it which is supposedly has a bit more potential. And it has the T3


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

87s are a bit hard to find, considering production numbers for that year were 33,000 and change, and the number of turbos was probably around 1/2 or less...... On the other hand, 84s and 85s number over 70,000 each, but the water cooled turbo started in 85, so that year is probably the best and the most easy to find. A "W" engine can always be found online, I beleive there is one on Ebay right now even.


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## '85 fairlady (May 1, 2004)

don't do cat back unless it is illegal to do full exuast.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

[QUOTE='85 fairlady]don't do cat back unless it is illegal to do full exuast.[/QUOTE] Catback is ok for an initial mod, a full exhaust is pretty expensive.


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## Nico Flax (May 3, 2003)

Actually I've never even seen a turbo in real life, only in pictures, from what I gather there is no header or headers, so when you say full exhaust what exactly do you mean? Because in VA you have to have the cat... any ideas on where I could get a full exhaust? decent price? Up here in Northern VA there isn't any muffler shops... and when i called one for my 200SX they said 'you know that would be illegal right?" "alright but that would be illegal" I don't know how many times I went over the fact I knew it was illegal, well not so much its illegal but that it may not pass emissions. Anyway I found this great site, I'm pretty sure you all know about it, its been a good help with my research.

http://www.z31.com/

Its really a great tool... but any idea on how big the exhaust should be if I decide to crank up the boost and heavily mod the car? I guess I'll ask more questions as I go on.


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## '85 fairlady (May 1, 2004)

well it doesn't matter now that we know that you haved to have a cat you might wan't to go with 3 inch if you decide on your heavy mods.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

3" and 3.5" if your going to turn it into a racer


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## Marc Z31 (Jul 25, 2004)

Fuck the 87's, get an 84. You are upgrading the turbo anyway, and the 84's are more than 300 Lbs lighter than 87+
the JWT ECU comes with larger injectors, but you are still on a stock reburned ECU, so you can't tune for even larger injectors unless you do another reburn.
I would go with an S.D.S. or a haltech ECU, as they are just a LITTLE more than the JWT, and have a great deal of more "tuneability"
Any turbo with a T3 exhaust flange will fit directly on to the stock manifold. I have a T66 on a stock manifold, but it did not fit in the engine bay without fabrication. It fit perfect on the manifold, it just contacted the steering rack. 
I have a JWT ECU and I'd rather have a system with a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor, rather than a MAF. It gets rid of the MAF restriction, but takes a little bit to tune correctly (but that's fun anyway)

Get a wideband O2 sensor
get an upper intake off a pathfinder from 91-93 (you need the distributor too) this is a VERY GOOD MOD.

a TURBO BACK EXHAUST is the only way to go. If you can, get a turbo with a V-band exhaust exit. It is easy to make an exhaust from there, and the flow is incredible

Get an external wastegate and weld it on to the exhaust manifold. Internal gates suck ass.

Drop as much weight as you can!

Get a good set of pistons. They don't make them for the VG30ET, but VG30DETT aftermarket pistons will work (they have the EXACT same bore/stroke), but you need to use the rods from a DETT as well (they are stronger) The pistons are the weak point of the SOHC VG engines. They don't like too much more than 450 RWHP

An ACT 6 puck clutch is a must. Don't bother with that street disc crap, they are for pussies. 

Z31's have a lot more potential than a Z32 simply because of the engine bay space, and huge weight difference. I have heard of people getting their Z31's to weigh 2600 lbs. With 400hp, 450 Lb Ft, and 2600lbs... say goodbye to 12's , hello 11's, and that's on a STOCK rotating assembaly.

FWD is limiting, not to mention frustrating. A good RWD true sports car is the way to go. The Z31 was nissan's Corvette... they put a hell of a lot of R&D into these cars. When a car is your premiere car, your top of the line wonder, you put a lot of pride and hard work into it... a lot more than a sentra or altima. All of nissan's cars are great, but the Z is THE shit.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

You need to watch your language in here. We aren't Off-Topic


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Marc Z31 said:


> Fuck the 87's, get an 84. You are upgrading the turbo anyway, and the 84's are more than 300 Lbs lighter than 87+
> the JWT ECU comes with larger injectors, but you are still on a stock reburned ECU, so you can't tune for even larger injectors unless you do another reburn.
> I would go with an S.D.S. or a haltech ECU, as they are just a LITTLE more than the JWT, and have a great deal of more "tuneability"
> Any turbo with a T3 exhaust flange will fit directly on to the stock manifold. I have a T66 on a stock manifold, but it did not fit in the engine bay without fabrication. It fit perfect on the manifold, it just contacted the steering rack.
> ...


 If I had more time, I'd take the time to dissect this pretty worthless post. What do you want a 6 puck clutch on a street car for? And why would you want a non MAF unit, MAFs make tuning easy, unless you want to be mr scientist wizard and go over airflow graphs for hours and input them into your laptop. Sounds kinda like _The Fast and The Furious_ to me.  And tone down teh language, this is a PG forum at best, and I'd prefer to keep the rating around G. If you can't comply, you need to leave.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Marc Z31 said:


> Fuck the 87's, get an 84. You are upgrading the turbo anyway, and the 84's are more than 300 Lbs lighter than 87+
> the JWT ECU comes with larger injectors, but you are still on a stock reburned ECU, so you can't tune for even larger injectors unless you do another reburn.
> I would go with an S.D.S. or a haltech ECU, as they are just a LITTLE more than the JWT, and have a great deal of more "tuneability"
> Any turbo with a T3 exhaust flange will fit directly on to the stock manifold. I have a T66 on a stock manifold, but it did not fit in the engine bay without fabrication. It fit perfect on the manifold, it just contacted the steering rack.
> ...


Haltechs are one of the worst, least capable of the standalone options. A beginner is much better off using a JWT ECU, its foolproof and uses the bulletproof Nissan sensors and wiring harnesses. 50 lb injectors will get you to around 450 hp. A MAF system is superior to a MAP for most people, you don't need to reprogram or rescale your maps when you make changes. MAF systems are insensitive to air density changes as well. If you are very experianced with tuning, then the Haltec is the last stand alone system I would use.

You forgoet to mention that when running the Pathfinder manifold, the AC system has to be modifed as well if AC is important to you. An internal wastegate is much easier to deal with not requiring trick cast iron welding and it will work with up to 400 hp. Direct bolt on turbos like the JWT Sport 450 require much less fabrication to work and can produce a lot of power.

An ACT 6 puck disc is not too streetable and hard on the drivetrain, it is the last option I would use for a street car.

Have you calculated the true compresison ratio of a VG30E using VG30DETT pistons? How do you know that the compression ratio is safe? I have not calculated that yet. The piston pin diameter is different between the engines as well, better use the VG30DETT rods. They do make aftermarket forged pistons for the VG30E, you just have to order them.

A Z31 is not better than a Z32. The Z32 has gobs more chassis ridgity, a vastly superior suspension, better aerodynamics and more power potential. Stock bottom end Z32's are putting out up to 650 whp. A Z31 has not yet done that. A Z32 can be made lighter as well. My turbo slicktop Z32 weighs in at 2800 lbs and i have not installed the lexan or carbon stuff yet.

The best way for a beginner to go to have a killer Z31 is to run the stock bottom end, Turbonetics front mount intercooler kit, JWT ECU, Cobra MAF, 50 lb injectors, Sport 450 turbo, C3 cams, custom 3" exhaust, aluminum flywheel and JWT clutch, egloid or pathfinder manifold, UD pulley and a R200 LSD diff. This combination will put out up to 450 whp and be very streetable and reliable. Best of all it will be a total bolt on solution.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> A Z31 is not better than a Z32. The Z32 has gobs more chassis ridgity, a vastly superior suspension, better aerodynamics and more power potential. Stock bottom end Z32's are putting out up to 650 whp. A Z31 has not yet done that. A Z32 can be made lighter as well. My turbo slicktop Z32 weighs in at 2800 lbs and i have not installed the lexan or carbon stuff yet.


No, the Z31 is not better. But for the price, it is. And probably a bit easier to work on than a Z32. But if you want power on a budget, the Z31 is pretty capable. I like like Z32s as much as the next guy, but when 90s are still going for $10,000, and in one case of an example with 8000 miles, $40,000, I tend to like my Z31 just fine for what I paid for it.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

There may not of been a VG30ET in a Z31 that made more then 600RWHP. But there were some guys in Florida who made more then 800RWHP with a VG30ET and the motor lasted through alot of dyno pulls and runs down the track then it blew up (I think) because somebody goofed. If there were more people that would build Z31Ts I think we would see numbers just as good as the VG30DETT can make. I don't know if that will happen and now that Russ made 1051RWHP and with other Z32s on the way to those kinds of numbers I think it will be harder for anyone to try to match the Z32 guys. I personally think that the Z31 is just as capable but it isn't liked and nobody gives the Z31 any respect. Yes there are faults with the chasis that can be fixed though and I am pretty sure I can get my Z31 under 2800 pounds with some work. The suspension is a more complicated fix and the rear suspension requires alot of modification but it is possible to get a Z31 to handle well.


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## hondakillerZX (Aug 16, 2004)

too many haters , i think the z31 is the most beautiful ever created.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> There may not of been a VG30ET in a Z31 that made more then 600RWHP. But there were some guys in Florida who made more then 800RWHP with a VG30ET and the motor lasted through alot of dyno pulls and runs down the track then it blew up (I think) because somebody goofed. If there were more people that would build Z31Ts I think we would see numbers just as good as the VG30DETT can make. I don't know if that will happen and now that Russ made 1051RWHP and with other Z32s on the way to those kinds of numbers I think it will be harder for anyone to try to match the Z32 guys. I personally think that the Z31 is just as capable but it isn't liked and nobody gives the Z31 any respect. Yes there are faults with the chasis that can be fixed though and I am pretty sure I can get my Z31 under 2800 pounds with some work. The suspension is a more complicated fix and the rear suspension requires alot of modification but it is possible to get a Z31 to handle well.


Heck after I fixed my rear shocks mine handles a lot better. I mean it's like a whole new car.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> There may not of been a VG30ET in a Z31 that made more then 600RWHP. But there were some guys in Florida who made more then 800RWHP with a VG30ET and the motor lasted through alot of dyno pulls and runs down the track then it blew up (I think) because somebody goofed. If there were more people that would build Z31Ts I think we would see numbers just as good as the VG30DETT can make. I don't know if that will happen and now that Russ made 1051RWHP and with other Z32s on the way to those kinds of numbers I think it will be harder for anyone to try to match the Z32 guys. I personally think that the Z31 is just as capable but it isn't liked and nobody gives the Z31 any respect. Yes there are faults with the chasis that can be fixed though and I am pretty sure I can get my Z31 under 2800 pounds with some work. The suspension is a more complicated fix and the rear suspension requires alot of modification but it is possible to get a Z31 to handle well.


A Z31 will NEVER hande as well as a Z32. Semi trailling arms are inheritly a terrible rear suspension and you can't do anything to correct the geometry other than make it super stiff so it doesnt move. The VG30E is a strong motor but it will NEVER make as much power as a VG30DETT. Its all in the cylinder head.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Yeah, but everyone is entitled to there opinion. Everything has its pros and cons.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Thats totally true though, how many people on this board have talked about wanting a z32 if they were to autocross with a Z and have a z31 strictly for a straight line. Thats why, y'know? I like my Z but its no B13 either


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> A Z31 will NEVER hande as well as a Z32. Semi trailling arms are inheritly a terrible rear suspension and you can't do anything to correct the geometry other than make it super stiff so it doesnt move. The VG30E is a strong motor but it will NEVER make as much power as a VG30DETT. Its all in the cylinder head.


 Yeah, DOHC will walk all over SOHC as far as power potential, pretty much every time.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

I think this thread had the potential to turn into another " air/fuel ratio gauge hook up" thread- LOL


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> I think this thread had the potential to turn into another " air/fuel ratio gauge hook up" thread- LOL


 But this time it's not me.....


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Yeah, we can slightly creep to a nc-17 rating on the forums again.........Mike can become "Master of level 15" and you can post pictures of you in your car doing doughnuts flicking off the camera..........dont ask me where I came up with that at

jakemonkey can come up with another funny as story too about the squirrel in the R32 with a million dollars to spare-lol


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> Thats totally true though, how many people on this board have talked about wanting a z32 if they were to autocross with a Z and have a z31 strictly for a straight line. Thats why, y'know? I like my Z but its no B13 either


I would rather have a 350Z for auto-x.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Yeah, DOHC will walk all over SOHC as far as power potential, pretty much every time.


Except in torque numbers. I'd rather have my SOHC set-up and single turbo.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

I meant between a z31 and z32

I would rather have a 350Z over all of them though- I see what youre getting at dude.

Hey did you ever catch my post asking you about the foam injection youre doing to your chassis?!?!?! I had heard about guys in Japan doing stuff like that to integras and i was wondering about it


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> I would rather have a 350Z over all of them though


I wouldn't. It lacks quite a bit of potential when compared to the Z32. It's only trick is that it can probably handle better. It certainly doesn't look better, and the ability to invoke more Hp is weak compared to the Z32s TT setup.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Its all about the chicks man- its all about the chicks.....

No Im Just Kidding........but really- Id like nothing more then to have a black track model with 19 inch staggard m-sports on it-- that would seriously turn me on

I have three customers with 350Zs and one who has all kinds of stuff done to it right now- intake exhaust etc etc
It sounds so good man- and he runs really good times when we autocross. Obviously better then me and my b13


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> Its all about the chicks man- its all about the chicks.....
> 
> No Im Just Kidding........but really- Id like nothing more then to have a black track model with 19 inch staggard m-sports on it-- that would seriously turn me on
> 
> ...


 It's an ok car, but Nissan really shouldn't have left turbos behind. I'm hoping the next generation or the next few years sees a return to factory forced induction. Heck, even Saturns have superchargers now. I understand the Japanese are trying to further the cause of NA engine developement, but they seem to have left the enthusiast and the tuner behind in the process, something they have never done.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

I have several friends with 350Zs. One of which is pretty dang and it is most likely the 2nd fastest NA in Tennessee (1st fastest being another guy in our Z club who NA with a 250 wet shot runs 10.5s in the quarter). And I have really come to like the cars though i still have issues saying 350"Z". They are a good car and they keep the Z name alive and well I just wish some of the owners were more educated about other cars. Handling is amazing in the 350Zs and as we all know you really do have to do F/I to get any real big numbers out of the VQ35DE but on an auto-x course the 350Z will hand a Z32TT it's ass. And what about how I am injecting the foam into the chasis? I still have to find a place to do it and I am having trouble finding a place anywhere near me.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

0341TODD said:


> Yeah, but everyone is entitled to there opinion. Everything has its pros and cons.


Yes and their are opinions and there are facts. What you you want to belive?


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> Except in torque numbers. I'd rather have my SOHC set-up and single turbo.


BUt who is gonna win in a race?


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> I have several friends with 350Zs. One of which is pretty dang and it is most likely the 2nd fastest NA in Tennessee (1st fastest being another guy in our Z club who NA with a 250 wet shot runs 10.5s in the quarter). And I have really come to like the cars though i still have issues saying 350"Z". They are a good car and they keep the Z name alive and well I just wish some of the owners were more educated about other cars. Handling is amazing in the 350Zs and as we all know you really do have to do F/I to get any real big numbers out of the VQ35DE but on an auto-x course the 350Z will hand a Z32TT it's ass. And what about how I am injecting the foam into the chasis? I still have to find a place to do it and I am having trouble finding a place anywhere near me.


A stock 350z will out handle a stock Z32 but it won't kill a properly modded Z32. Its real hard to make a 350z handle better since its already so good stock. The 350 Z does have some problems though, axle tramp and spindle flex causing brake knockback and chronic low pedal.

The Z32 has axle tramp issues as well but they are plenty of parts that can eliminate this.

As far as injecting foam, its not that hard. It made a huge night and day difference in Steve Michells Z31.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Looks have nothing to do with anything. If you are truely on the subject of handling that is.

The Z31 and Z32 cars were made with two way different expectations. No one wanted to take a Z31 around a hairpin turn at 80. At that time it was all about having brute power and going straight while still maintaining a good fuel mileage when needed. When the 90's came around so did the Z32. It was made to have just as much if not more potential in engine wise but was more involved in the handling department. These were meant to be true out street machines able to make more horsepower than imagined a while having good handling. Something the Z31 didn't have.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I wouldn't. It lacks quite a bit of potential when compared to the Z32. It's only trick is that it can probably handle better. It certainly doesn't look better, and the ability to invoke more Hp is weak compared to the Z32s TT setup.


In my opinion the Z32 with a good body kit looks better than any car out on the street in the US. Even without the body kits it still has all the looks that cars have today. The Z32 was way ahead of a lot of companies at the time. Hell the toyota camry's, celicas, civics, accords, corvettes, mustangs ALL had blocky lines. Nothing looked as smooth, sleek, and streamlined as the Z.


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## Marc Z31 (Jul 25, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> There may not of been a VG30ET in a Z31 that made more then 600RWHP. But there were some guys in Florida who made more then 800RWHP with a VG30ET and the motor lasted through alot of dyno pulls and runs down the track then it blew up (I think) because somebody goofed. If there were more people that would build Z31Ts I think we would see numbers just as good as the VG30DETT can make. I don't know if that will happen and now that Russ made 1051RWHP and with other Z32s on the way to those kinds of numbers I think it will be harder for anyone to try to match the Z32 guys. I personally think that the Z31 is just as capable but it isn't liked and nobody gives the Z31 any respect. Yes there are faults with the chasis that can be fixed though and I am pretty sure I can get my Z31 under 2800 pounds with some work. The suspension is a more complicated fix and the rear suspension requires alot of modification but it is possible to get a Z31 to handle well.


All the mustang guys in town are now scared of the Z31's. Every mustang guy fears the day when the _Devil Z_ comes back to destroy all in her path.

The Z31 is almost a secret to the street scene. A car that weighs less than 3000 pounds and can make more horsepower and especially torque than the more than average big block V8, and stay under 200cid and even keep the stock bottom end is not only amazing... it's almost unthinkable. Fuck a 3600Lb Z32... they are too much of a pain in the ass as well as extremely expensive to mod. I like my old school turbo imports, and they can make as much power as you want... if you have the $$.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Marc Z31 said:


> I like my old school turbo imports, and they can make as much power as you want... if you have the $$.



So are the Z32s


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## Marc Z31 (Jul 25, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> In my opinion the Z32 with a good body kit looks better than any car out on the street in the US. Even without the body kits it still has all the looks that cars have today. The Z32 was way ahead of a lot of companies at the time. Hell the toyota camry's, celicas, civics, accords, corvettes, mustangs ALL had blocky lines. Nothing looked as smooth, sleek, and streamlined as the Z.


all I have to say is SUPRA and RX-7. with body kits, they are BEAUTIFUL.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Yes 2 whole cars out of how many manufacturers?


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Marc Z31 said:


> All the mustang guys in town are now scared of the Z31's. Every mustang guy fears the day when the _Devil Z_ comes back to destroy all in her path.
> 
> The Z31 is almost a secret to the street scene. A car that weighs less than 3000 pounds and can make more horsepower and especially torque than the more than average big block V8, and stay under 200cid and even keep the stock bottom end is not only amazing... it's almost unthinkable. Fuck a 3600Lb Z32... they are too much of a pain in the ass as well as extremely expensive to mod. I like my old school turbo imports, and they can make as much power as you want... if you have the $$.


Z32's are not extremely expensive to mod. A Z31 can be expensive because you have to make a lot of stuff for it to get it past a certain point. Have you ever worked on a Z32? They are not that bad, in fact the only difficult thing is changing the turbos while the engine is in the car. But a Z31 is diffucult to change a big upgraded turbo with an external wastegate while the engine is in the car as well. A Z31 is not under 3000 lbs, they weigh between 3000-3300 lbs depending on which variant you have. You need to strip them some to get below 3000 lbs.

Z32's have made as much as 650 whp with bolt ons and a stock bottom end. No Z31 has gotten close to that.

The Z31 can be fast if properly modded but only a handful of them in this country are. Any turbo car can make lots of money when properly modded so whats your point?


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Marc Z31 said:


> All the mustang guys in town are now scared of the Z31's. Every mustang guy fears the day when the _Devil Z_ comes back to destroy all in her path.
> 
> The Z31 is almost a secret to the street scene. A car that weighs less than 3000 pounds and can make more horsepower and especially torque than the more than average big block V8, and stay under 200cid and even keep the stock bottom end is not only amazing... it's almost unthinkable. Fuck a 3600Lb Z32... they are too much of a pain in the ass as well as extremely expensive to mod. I like my old school turbo imports, and they can make as much power as you want... if you have the $$.


 Both the Z31 and 32 are pretty much still a secret to the mainstream street scene. The Z32 TT is kinda rare, at least around here, and the Z31 is even more so. I've hung around the street scene, people treat Z32s like UFOs when they show up. It's like a ZL1 Camaro showing up at a hotrodders convention. I got treated basically the same way, but my car isn't in the best shape and tons of people still ask me about it. The Honda guys get so mad when I tell them I've got less money into the whole car then they do in their turbo kit. :fluffy: I also don't think Z32s weigh as much as 3600 lbs, that tonnage was reserved for cars like the Thunderbird SC and the 3000GT. It's easy to pull weight off a Z32 also, just remove the HICAS in the rear and a few other unnecessary pieces.


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## Marc Z31 (Jul 25, 2004)

the 84 300ZX turbo is less than 3000 pounds (50 pounds less actually) and the NA and the 2+2 was even less than the turbo.








each year after that, yes they did add weight


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Marc Z31 said:


> the 84 300ZX turbo is less than 3000 pounds (50 pounds less actually) and the NA and the 2+2 was even less than the turbo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I also seem to remember that in the early 80s, they weighed some cars completely empty, no oil gas or fluids, in an attempt to make cars seem a bit lighter than they actually were. Later on, they used the more standardized "curb weight" which was a car completely filled with a full tank of gas, and oil and all fluids topped off. I don't beleive the Z31s weighed so much more in the later years, not with so very few changes. The car is basically the same car from '84 on, with only minor modifications.


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## Marc Z31 (Jul 25, 2004)

well... I know mine weighs less than most.

I know for a fact mine weighs a lot less than any Z32 in austin. I raced a friend with a Z32 making 342rwhp, and put a car and a half on him, when I was on a T3 and no intercooler. I couldn't have been more than 280 rwhp... could I?

He was really mad that he had spent $5K on the car and couldn't beat me.

He had intercoolers, BOV's, full exhaust, A chip, hardpipes, boost controller, nice tires, an ACT clutch, suspension, and some weight mods.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Marc Z31 said:


> well... I know mine weighs less than most.
> 
> I know for a fact mine weighs a lot less than any Z32 in austin. I raced a friend with a Z32 making 342rwhp, and put a car and a half on him, when I was on a T3 and no intercooler. I couldn't have been more than 280 rwhp... could I?
> 
> ...


 I think it's possible to make more than 300 hp with no IC, at least for a short time before things heat up. Theoretically 300 Hp should be about 15 psi, if 200 is at 5 psi. I also beleive the Z31 has shorter gearing than the Z32, though I could be wrong. That would definitely help acceleration.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Lets talk Wheel horsepower measures here. All it's going to do is confuse people into thinking Z's at 5 PSI are running 200 WHP. Mine at 7 PSI should've been making just above 160WHP.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> Lets talk Wheel horsepower measures here. All it's going to do is confuse people into thinking Z's at 5 PSI are running 200 WHP. Mine at 7 PSI should've been making just above 160WHP.


 Crank Hp is how the car was originally measured though, just keeping it consistant.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Yes but in the long run it means nothing unless you know exactly how much HP your accesories and drivetrain use.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> Lets talk Wheel horsepower measures here. All it's going to do is confuse people into thinking Z's at 5 PSI are running 200 WHP. Mine at 7 PSI should've been making just above 160WHP.


In stock form you should of made 170+or- some.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> In stock form you should of made 170+or- some.


If you figure 10-12% drivetrain losses, it should be more like 180. Drivetrain loss is such an inconsistent number, though, given that the percentage can vary widely from car to car. A newer tranny or diff will have more friction than a high mileage but well cared for component. And the engine will be broken in in a higher milage car, producing more Hp. Same reason a car with 30,000 miles will be somewhat faster than it's brand new counterpart. The only true way to know what wheel Hp the car is producing is to put it on a dyno, and even then results depend on ambient conditions...........


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> If you figure 10-12% drivetrain losses, it should be more like 180. Drivetrain loss is such an inconsistent number, though, given that the percentage can vary widely from car to car. A newer tranny or diff will have more friction than a high mileage but well cared for component. And the engine will be broken in in a higher milage car, producing more Hp. Same reason a car with 30,000 miles will be somewhat faster than it's brand new counterpart. The only true way to know what wheel Hp the car is producing is to put it on a dyno, and even then results depend on ambient conditions...........



Unless you are in a controlled enviorment. But when you go outside of it the horsepower might be different. So I should be making 170 to 180 WHP at stock 7 PSI. Hmmm Well I actually be around 210-220 HP instead of the 200WHP I assumed with 10 PSI


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Nissan really shouldn't have left turbos behind.


Good god you can say that again man. And same for the RX, and upcomming Supra replacement. Wow, even the Skyline is N/A now...Nissan has built itself on smaller turbocharged engines that have strong stock numbers and massive potential. And now they seem to be going more economical. . Sorry to get OT but I think that is the best quote I have ever heard on a forum.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

What is the Supra going to be replaced by?


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> What is the Supra going to be replaced by?


Some crazy looking thing called the TSX, Supposed to be on par perforamnce-wise with the Carrera GT and the Ford GT, and will cost over $100,000.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

There already is a car called the TSX I thought though by Honda or Acura


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> There already is a car called the TSX I thought though by Honda or Acura


TXS sorry, typo......  

Heres a pic.


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

alright thanks


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## OPIUM (Aug 18, 2002)

oooh.... takata harnesses! Nice... that wing is hideous though!


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

Yeah I don't know how good that thing is going to look. How does anyone know it's a supra decendant


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## Zac (Mar 10, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Some crazy looking thing called the TSX, Supposed to be on par perforamnce-wise with the Carrera GT and the Ford GT, and will cost over $100,000.


I thought it was 3 trims, a V6, a more powerful V6 and an V8 (some say this will be TT, others say NA)


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

They will probably try to convert the Tundra V8 to work somehow if they go with the V8 option. That's the only V8 I know of that Toyota makes and I'm not too sure on the engine code. Using the V-8 would give a loads of low-down torque which would be nice.


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## 1slowZ (Jul 8, 2004)

z31's arn't bad but if you want your dad to have a nice weekend car go with a z32


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

1slowZ said:


> z31's arn't bad but if you want your dad to have a nice weekend car go with a z32


 For some people, like me, the extra cost of a TT Z32 is prohibitive. I found my Z31 in ok shape for less than I could find a wrecked junked Z32 for........


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

I got mine for 1800 and there was a Z32 N/A for 3500. Believe me I would've taken the Z31 for 2.5K before I bought the Z32 (NA SUCKS)


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

I got mine for free suckas!!!!!!!!!


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> I got mine for free suckas!!!!!!!!!


Yeah cuz it's auto and no one wants it pwned


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

SKD_Tech said:


> Yeah cuz it's auto and no one wants it pwned


 Ouch......... :thumbup:


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## asleepz (Feb 24, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Ouch......... :thumbup:



tee hee. I figure if he can play I can play once a year or so


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## Marc Z31 (Jul 25, 2004)

be warned, there are not a lot of bolt on parts for the Z31. As far as power goes, for a HUGE price, you can get an intercooler kit ($1200) and the VERY RARE T4 HKS exhaust manifold with external wastegate (~$800-$1200) or you can fabricate parts, and spend 1/4 of the $$.

If you really want huge power from a Z31, talk to the guys at www.Z31.com

There are some VERY fast cars on that board.


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## z31 (Oct 19, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> A Z31 will NEVER hande as well as a Z32. Semi trailling arms are inheritly a terrible rear suspension and you can't do anything to correct the geometry other than make it super stiff so it doesnt move.


this is BS. E30 M3s and many a Porsche have semi-trailing arm rear suspensions. I wouldn't call them poor handling cars. The z31 was overly soft from the factory, and got a reputation for poor handling.

z32s are pigs. They can make a lot of power, but they are still pigs. I've never seen one autoX well.

my SS weighs 3205 with a roll hoop bolted in, ~half a tank of gas, and heavy ass 17" wheels (45lbs each w/ tires)


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Marc Z31 said:


> be warned, there are not a lot of bolt on parts for the Z31. As far as power goes, for a HUGE price, you can get an intercooler kit ($1200) and the VERY RARE T4 HKS exhaust manifold with external wastegate (~$800-$1200) or you can fabricate parts, and spend 1/4 of the $$.
> 
> If you really want huge power from a Z31, talk to the guys at www.Z31.com
> 
> There are some VERY fast cars on that board.


 Yeah those guys act like they own Supras or something. Biggest bunch of internet dickheads I have yet to run across. You can learn everything you need to know about how to make your car fast right here.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

z31 said:


> this is BS. E30 M3s and many a Porsche have semi-trailing arm rear suspensions. I wouldn't call them poor handling cars. The z31 was overly soft from the factory, and got a reputation for poor handling.
> 
> z32s are pigs. They can make a lot of power, but they are still pigs. I've never seen one autoX well.
> 
> my SS weighs 3205 with a roll hoop bolted in, ~half a tank of gas, and heavy ass 17" wheels (45lbs each w/ tires)


Semi trailing arms toe out under roll, its a function of the supension geometry, their is no way around it. Semi trailing arm cars have severe trailing throttle oversteer thats hard to catch. E30 M3's like Z31's don't handle that well when compared to modern cars and Porshes had an extra link coupled with staggered bushing durometers to reduce the toe change under roll. Those cars you mention don't handle as well as modern sports cars in street trim. In race trim they can be made to handle well with high spring rates but these spring rates are so hight they have no revelence to street cars.

A Z32 can outhandle a Z31 easily. In near stock configuration racing Z32's have done exceedingly well. The Z32 was nearly undefeated for two years straight in World Challange and IMSA Procar untill many rule changes specificaly leveled at the car made it uncompetitive. By the time the cars quit racing they were carrying over 350 lbs of lead penalty ballast. In SSCA showroom stock A, the Z32 won the national championship many years in a row until it became ineligable.

The Z31 only enjoyed racing sucess mostly in classes where tube frames came into play, like SCCA GT1 and IMSA GTO. These cars had nothing like the stock suspension so they cannot be compared to production class racing and street cars. The only production based class where the Z31 had some sucess was in IMSA Firehawk GT class. This was mostly due to its motor which was pretty strong for the classification IMSA gave the car.

In short the Z32 is a vastly superior design which has enjoyed much more sucess in production based racing than the Z31. To say that semi trailing arms are inheritly a good suspension because old porshes and BMW's used them is illogical.


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## z31 (Oct 19, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> To say that semi trailing arms are inheritly a good suspension because old porshes and BMW's used them is illogical.


Find where I said it was an inherently good design? I never said it was the best design. But it isn't 'inherently terrible' either.

z32s had a lot of success once they started using the longer 2+2 chassis. I don't see a whole lot of 2+2 TTs rolling around the streets either


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

z31 said:


> Find where I said it was an inherently good design? I never said it was the best design. But it isn't 'inherently terrible' either.
> 
> z32s had a lot of success once they started using the longer 2+2 chassis. I don't see a whole lot of 2+2 TTs rolling around the streets either


Your logic is flawed. You said Porshes and BMW's use semi trailing arm suspension so it is good. Well guess what neiter of those companies use semi trailing arms anymore for good reason. It basicaly sucks.

The production racing versions of the 300ZX, used in world challange, SCCA SSA and IMSA Procar all used the short wheelbase TT chassis. Only the tubeframe, not really related to a production car IMSA GTO car used the longer wheelbase 2+2. You are wrong, you should not try to argue about the racing history of the Z31 or Z32 when you don't know much about it.

Semi trailing arms are not good at all, they are inherently terrible. A beam axle usualy works better on a race car.


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## Minagera (Oct 25, 2004)

OK ok, be a man, a forget the blukie 300z, get a nice 280, or 260.


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## Marc Z31 (Jul 25, 2004)

Every Z32 I have ever raced has lost. Z32's are pigs, just like supras and VR-4's. The Z32's are the heaviest Z's ever produced. I call your bullshit on the 2800 Lb Z32, How do you drop 800 pounds? It doesn't count if the engine is not in the vehicle. I love Z's, but I would take a supra or an FD before I took a Z32. I would take a 240Z above them all. <2200 lbs and enough room for almost anything under the hood. Old school rules.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Marc Z31 said:


> Every Z32 I have ever raced has lost. Z32's are pigs, just like supras and VR-4's. The Z32's are the heaviest Z's ever produced. I call your bullshit on the 2800 Lb Z32, How do you drop 800 pounds? It doesn't count if the engine is not in the vehicle. I love Z's, but I would take a supra or an FD before I took a Z32. I would take a 240Z above them all. <2200 lbs and enough room for almost anything under the hood. Old school rules.


If you think I am bullshitting race me and find out . Any contest of speed and you will lose. Make it drag racing, road racing, whatever. Be prepared to bring money. Just no NOS. Motor to motor.

In real racing, in production classes like SCCA showroom stock, World Chalalnge and IMSA Procar, the Z32 has a distingused racing pedrige that the Z31 never matched. These are modifed production cars, not tube frame compoiste bodied silloitte classes.

The Z31 is a low buck speedster bargain capable of making tremendous power with just bolt ons but it is not a superior car to the Z32. The engineering facts and both cars racing history proves it.

Steve Mitchell who owns one of the most well developed Z31's in the country would not say he could beat my Z32 in a race. He may even comment on this thread. Don't base your opinion on what you might have lined up against. Their are plenty of really fast Z32's around and only a handful of Z31's and thats in a straight line.


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## Marc Z31 (Jul 25, 2004)

There are only a handful of Z31 owners that mod their cars. Z32's are a mainstream bolt-on approach to racing. Any idiot with deep pockets can make a Z32 faster. Anything you want, you can find... and simply bolt it on. There are plenty of Z32's that have really cool fabrication and original parts, but 99% of all modded Z32's out there are just bolt on parts and a body kit. Every fast Z31 HAS to have some fab work in it. They simply do not make the parts for it. It's somewhat similar to a 510... if you want it to do what you want, you have to work for it. I'm a cheap ass. I don't give a damn about racing prestige, I appreciate a well built car. As a welder and fabricator, I can appreciate aftermarket parts for their good quality and R&D. As an engineering student and a member of SAE, I can't help but want to engineer the parts on the car myself. I have just had it in for the Z32 because of all the assholes who think their car is the best thing ever produced, then getting their ass handed to them by an older car. Bone stock to bone stock... the Z32 is a better machine, but put $10K into each, and I bet the Z31 will kick it's ass. A cage, coil-overs, subframe bracing, front/rear strut bars, good wheels and tires, and some anti-roll bars will bring any car to an insane level. but when you get the Z down to 2600lbs or less, it will show that a lighter car always has the advantage. I bet you have a bad ass car, but knocking 800lbs off a car? that's like saying I have a 2200lb Z31. I call your bullshit.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

Marc Z31 said:


> but when you get the Z down to 2600lbs or less, it will show that a lighter car always has the advantage. I bet you have a bad ass car, but knocking 800lbs off a car? that's like saying I have a 2200lb Z31. I call your bullshit.


Trust me he isn't lieing. He has some insane cars and you can loose 800lbs on a Z32 it is possible but very hard. I know that the Z32 in the end has a better rear suspension but you can overcome that. I think the main reason you don't see alot of fast Z31s is because alot of the owners can not afford to modify their cars. If there were more of us Z31 owners that could afford mods you would see more insane Z31s. Also I am pretty sure that the Z31s in drag racing are faster then the Z32s that are out there. I am currently building a Z31 that should be an interesting car when it is finished. Unlike the majority of Z31 owners I can afford to modify the car heavily and I don't daily drive it. This spring I'm going to start racing it in SCCA auto-x and just let the Jetta be the daily driver it is supossed to be. Well see how the results go on the VG30ET with only a few light engine mods and alot of suspension and chasis work.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Hey James, I ordered the suspension tech springs today and tokicos all around so I will let you know how they go-----Mike does have really fast cars though that are well engineered-- read SCC and youll see


I just hope the foam is worth the time and mess LOL

I know it will be


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Marc Z31 said:


> There are only a handful of Z31 owners that mod their cars. Z32's are a mainstream bolt-on approach to racing. Any idiot with deep pockets can make a Z32 faster. Anything you want, you can find... and simply bolt it on. There are plenty of Z32's that have really cool fabrication and original parts, but 99% of all modded Z32's out there are just bolt on parts and a body kit. Every fast Z31 HAS to have some fab work in it. They simply do not make the parts for it. It's somewhat similar to a 510... if you want it to do what you want, you have to work for it. I'm a cheap ass. I don't give a damn about racing prestige, I appreciate a well built car. As a welder and fabricator, I can appreciate aftermarket parts for their good quality and R&D. As an engineering student and a member of SAE, I can't help but want to engineer the parts on the car myself. I have just had it in for the Z32 because of all the assholes who think their car is the best thing ever produced, then getting their ass handed to them by an older car. Bone stock to bone stock... the Z32 is a better machine, but put $10K into each, and I bet the Z31 will kick it's ass. A cage, coil-overs, subframe bracing, front/rear strut bars, good wheels and tires, and some anti-roll bars will bring any car to an insane level. but when you get the Z down to 2600lbs or less, it will show that a lighter car always has the advantage. I bet you have a bad ass car, but knocking 800lbs off a car? that's like saying I have a 2200lb Z31. I call your bullshit.


Racing prestige is not why I pointed out the Z32's racing pedigree. The fact that the Z32 is a much superior car is the reason why it was sucessful in limited modifcation classes where the Z31 was only sucessful in very high levels of racing where tube frames and all new suspension systems came into play enabling the race car constructor to get rid of its inherit shortcomings.

If you don't understand the Z32 how do you know I am bullshitting about my target weight?

If you are gonna be an automotive engineer thats any good, you had better drop the opinionated attitude and look at data and know how to reduce it to something useable before you color it with your biased opinion. You should base your opinions on quantitiave data or your professional carrier will not last long.

Your posts are full of unbased opinions, stuff like Vtec is an inferior variable cam timing system, Z32's are slower than Z31's, its imposbile to build a 2800 lb Z32 are all talking out of your ass. It shows ignorance rather than engineering savy.

Its obvious that you know your stuff, as a professional automitve engineer, I think that you need to learn how things really work instead of automaticaly forming unbased opinions to become better.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> Trust me he isn't lieing. He has some insane cars and you can loose 800lbs on a Z32 it is possible but very hard. I know that the Z32 in the end has a better rear suspension but you can overcome that. I think the main reason you don't see alot of fast Z31s is because alot of the owners can not afford to modify their cars. If there were more of us Z31 owners that could afford mods you would see more insane Z31s. Also I am pretty sure that the Z31s in drag racing are faster then the Z32s that are out there. I am currently building a Z31 that should be an interesting car when it is finished. Unlike the majority of Z31 owners I can afford to modify the car heavily and I don't daily drive it. This spring I'm going to start racing it in SCCA auto-x and just let the Jetta be the daily driver it is supossed to be. Well see how the results go on the VG30ET with only a few light engine mods and alot of suspension and chasis work.


The Z32 has vastly better front suspension as well.

Currently the Escort Z32 is faster than any Z31. Kyle Puckett's unibody Z32 is faster than any unibody non back halfed Z31.

The Z31 is doing pretty well in SCCA's ITE class but its a regional class and the rules vary from region to region. The secret to making the Z31 handle is addressing its ridgity issues and making the suspension very stiff so the rear toe and camber change doesnt come into play.


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

Marc Z31 said:


> Every Z32 I have ever raced has lost. Z32's are pigs, just like supras and VR-4's. The Z32's are the heaviest Z's ever produced. I call your bullshit on the 2800 Lb Z32, How do you drop 800 pounds? It doesn't count if the engine is not in the vehicle. I love Z's, but I would take a supra or an FD before I took a Z32. I would take a 240Z above them all. <2200 lbs and enough room for almost anything under the hood. Old school rules.


Man, If you only knew what he did for a living.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Spongerider said:


> Man, If you only knew what he did for a living.


I don't know why these guys wanna argue with Mike anymore, I seriously doubt any of them has more underhood time than I do, let alone him. I think some of these guys just like to argue, must be the "foot in mouth" syndrome. 

BTW what _does_ Mike do for a living. I can guess, but I want to know for sure........


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I don't know why these guys wanna argue with Mike anymore, I seriously doubt any of them has more underhood time than I do, let alone him. I think some of these guys just like to argue, must be the "foot in mouth" syndrome.
> 
> BTW what _does_ Mike do for a living. I can guess, but I want to know for sure........


Lets say he is a VIP of a leading car manufacture.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Spongerider said:


> Lets say he is a VIP of a leading car manufacture.


 Hmm Nissan maybe? Nah, couldn't be.


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## 0341TODD (Nov 15, 2003)

Well, when youre a contributor for SCC and youre on T.V. a bunch smoking hondas etc etc etc etc................---Why people argue with Mike is beyond anyone--especially about Air/Fuel ratio gauges-LOL


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

I'm not arguing; I understand that overall the Z32 is a much better car. But it also has a larger support group and more parts available. The Z31 is still a very good car and the issues witht he car can be overcome it just takes alot of work.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

0341TODD said:


> Well, when you're a contributor for SCC and you're on T.V. a bunch smoking hondas etc etc etc etc................---Why people argue with Mike is beyond anyone--especially about Air/Fuel ratio gauges-LOL


 That was before I ever knew who Mike was. I've subscribed to SCC for many years and never paid any attention to the contributor list. Their "Ten Best Cars to Modify" list way back in 96-97 (around then, I think) was the whole reason I jumped from modding American cars into modding newer imports in the first place. Before that I had messed with stuff like old XT turbos and cars like that, but not to the degree I started after reading that spread.....


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## z31 (Oct 19, 2004)

amazing someone would argue with him when he comes in here and calls z31 suspensions 'inherently terrible'. If I wanted to hear how great the z32 is/was, I'd go to the z32 section.

and people complain about z31.com...


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## Spongerider (Nov 18, 2002)

z31 said:


> amazing someone would argue with him when he comes in here and calls z31 suspensions 'inherently terrible'. If I wanted to hear how great the z32 is/was, I'd go to the z32 section.
> 
> and people complain about z31.com...


LoL!


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

z31 said:


> amazing someone would argue with him when he comes in here and calls z31 suspensions 'inherently terrible'. If I wanted to hear how great the z32 is/was, I'd go to the z32 section.
> 
> and people complain about z31.com...


 He only speaks the truth. I curse my suspension every time I crawl under the back of my car. Absolutely horrible design, no question about it. Those who can't admit that are only deluding themselves.


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> He only speaks the truth. I curse my suspension every time I crawl under the back of my car. Absolutely horrible design, no question about it. Those who can't admit that are only deluding themselves.


I thought you were into drag racing and didn't care about the handling aspect. You must admit the Z31 has a good setup for drag racing.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

JAMESZ said:


> I thought you were into drag racing and didn't care about the handling aspect. You must admit the Z31 has a good setup for drag racing.


Sure, if all you ever wanted to do was go in a straight line. I've been fairly successful pushing my particular Zs cornering limits. Well, successful as in I haven't crashed it yet.......  It does seem to snap transition much like a Porsche 911, which I have some experience with so it's not hard to handle.......


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

z31 said:


> amazing someone would argue with him when he comes in here and calls z31 suspensions 'inherently terrible'. If I wanted to hear how great the z32 is/was, I'd go to the z32 section.
> 
> and people complain about z31.com...


So what, you want me to lie about how great the Z31's suspension is to make you happy? Are you in denial that your car is not a perfect supercar?  Sounds like you don't even understan your own cars weaknesses. Lack of understanding weaknesses and denial of their exsistances will prevent you from addressing and corecting them.

Ok if you don't belive me, lets just stick to the facts and use logic. Please explain to me using facts, not opinion how I am wrong? Please explain how the Z31's semi trailing arm suspension is not a terrible design. I am open minded and am all ears. I can give you several why it is but you would never belive me.

The statement that old Porshes and BMW's used this suspension so it must be good is not a fact defending how its not terrible.

I don't hate Z31's. In fact I may get one soon to prove to people how fast they can go with very little work and money.


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Spongerider said:


> LoL!


Ah Z31.com, the beehive of knowlege that it is...


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

JAMESZ said:


> I thought you were into drag racing and didn't care about the handling aspect. You must admit the Z31 has a good setup for drag racing.


It has too much camber change and pro-squat in the suspension geometry to launch reaaly well.

The Z32 is the oppposite, it has to much anti-squat and blows the tires away when launching.


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## Domdogg123 (Nov 12, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> Ah Z31.com, the beehive of knowlege that it is...


what's your problem with z31.com??? it is THE z31 site...if you can't handle any critism then buy a honda....


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## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Domdogg123 said:


> what's your problem with z31.com??? it is THE z31 site...if you can't handle any critism then buy a honda....


now that's an intellegent statement


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## JAMESZ (Mar 12, 2004)

morepower2 said:


> now that's an intellegent statement


We got invaded by a few of the "non-important" Z31.com peps they already left.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Domdogg123 said:


> what's your problem with z31.com??? it is THE z31 site...if you can't handle any critism then buy a honda....


 It is apparently not _THE_ Z31 site, otherwise other Z31 sites would have no reason to exist. One glaringly immediate reason I can think of as to why I don't like Z31.com is the lack of some useful information, such as where you can get replacement stock struts and LSD differentials. Those things are mentioned, but in no detail at all. Z31-philes want to know this stuff and that site is lacking in detail in that and many other areas. The online service manual for one, is the most incomplete piece of junk I've seen in a long time. It should be deleted, it's so worthless. The owner is also pretty opinionated, which is ok to a point, but doesn't work well on an information site. It also seems as though the owner has never pushed a Z31 anywhere close to it's limits in anything. I just can't respect someone's opinion who A: hasn't blown up his car at least once in the quest for Hp, and B: Takes anything a mod shop or dealership tells them as law. Rules were made to be broken, that's why we're here. Due to the absolute lack of bolt-ons for our cars, we're _tuners_ and you really can't call us anything else.


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## Domdogg123 (Nov 12, 2004)

if you need to ask about where you can get different struts for you car...have you ever thought of searching???... Searching is the most useful option on z31.com, so many newbies think that someone wants to keep answering the same questions over and over agian. Try searching z31 on google and see what you get, there's a reason it's the first thing to pop up  . I'm not trying to say there is no useful purpose for other Z sites, obviously you go where you want to. Seriously, I don't know why you guys hate z31.com sooooo much? oh and balliztik, who are you talking about. I've gotten tons of useful information off of z31.com, even a downloadable FSM. My car would be in a junkyard someplace if it wasn't for that site...


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Domdogg123 said:


> if you need to ask about where you can get different struts for you car...have you ever thought of searching???... Searching is the most useful option on z31.com, so many newbies think that someone wants to keep answering the same questions over and over agian. Try searching z31 on google and see what you get, there's a reason it's the first thing to pop up  . I'm not trying to say there is no useful purpose for other Z sites, obviously you go where you want to. Seriously, I don't know why you guys hate z31.com sooooo much? oh and balliztik, who are you talking about. I've gotten tons of useful information off of z31.com, even a downloadable FSM. My car would be in a junkyard someplace if it wasn't for that site...


 Downloadable FSM eh? How come I can't find it, then. I've complained about that place _not_ having a downloable FSM for a long time. I just went there 5 minutes ago and still don't see one. So either provide a link or you'll just be considered another Z31.commer who will defend their backwards site at any cost. Z31.com has given me no useful information that I'm aware of, everything I learned about my car I learned by spending time under the hood. As far as the finding struts are concerned, that information should be provided on the site, of course if it was any kind of a useful site at all. Funny how every other enthusiast site (Supras.com, GVR4.org, 240SX.org) has pretty much all the information you'd ever need, there is basically no reason to ever leave that site. That cannot be said for Z31.com. Thats why I came here, because z31.com is pretty much useless. The only thing it has is a good For-Sale ad base.


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## z31 (Oct 19, 2004)

Domdogg123 said:


> I've gotten tons of useful information off of z31.com, even a downloadable FSM.


I don't know of a downloadable FSM on z31.com, do you mean the fiche? The closest think I know of to an FSM on there is the repairs section.

I've never really looked for the FSM on z31.com, since i already have one.

There isn't anything here but a forum (that I've bothered to find, at least), why all the bitching about lack of content on z31.com?


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

z31 said:


> I don't know of a downloadable FSM on z31.com, do you mean the fiche? The closest think I know of to an FSM on there is the repairs section.
> 
> I've never really looked for the FSM on z31.com, since i already have one.
> 
> There isn't anything here but a forum (that I've bothered to find, at least), why all the bitching about lack of content on z31.com?


 I have found the _fiche_ to be pretty useless, any information I would need is blanked out. As far as content here, we have some pretty knowledgeable members who are fairly regular participants, which to me puts us way over Z31.com as far as access to information goes. Not to mention the thread archives are much easier to access here. The only thing I've found of any use on Z31.com , is, as I said before, the For-Sale ads.


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## z31 (Oct 19, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> As far as content here, we have some pretty knowledgeable members who are fairly regular participants, which to me puts us way over Z31.com as far as access to information goes.


That isn't content though, that's a knowledgeable member base.


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## Domdogg123 (Nov 12, 2004)

z31 said:


> I don't know of a downloadable FSM on z31.com, do you mean the fiche? The closest think I know of to an FSM on there is the repairs section.
> 
> I've never really looked for the FSM on z31.com, since i already have one.
> 
> There isn't anything here but a forum (that I've bothered to find, at least), why all the bitching about lack of content on z31.com?


although not exactly on the site....searching for the FSM will give you http://tboz.no-ip.com:10000/images/Nissan 300ZX FSM [84-86]/Nissan 300ZX FSM [84-86].rar - Right click and save..and there is plenty of valuable info on the fiche, comparing part numbers will let you know if parts fit. And will give you ideas on how parts fit together. Sorry if your offended by my posting, but there is much use in z31.com


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Domdogg123 said:


> although not exactly on the site....searching for the FSM will give you http://tboz.no-ip.com:10000/images/Nissan 300ZX FSM [84-86]/Nissan 300ZX FSM [84-86].rar - Right click and save..and there is plenty of valuable info on the fiche, comparing part numbers will let you know if parts fit. And will give you ideas on how parts fit together. Sorry if your offended by my posting, but there is much use in z31.com


 I'm sure there is, but if it's impossible to find, it's of no use at all. I'm not a big advocate of search engines, it takes much too precise a wording to get anything useful out of them. For instance, when I went to Z31.com and used the search engine and typed in "Z31 factory service manual" it just gave me various posts talking about an FSM. If there is an FSM , there should be a link to it right on the site. And since you so kindly provided me that link, I'm going to make it a sticky for the use of the rest of us that don't have an FSM.


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## Domdogg123 (Nov 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I'm sure there is, but if it's impossible to find, it's of no use at all. I'm not a big advocate of search engines, it takes much too precise a wording to get anything useful out of them. For instance, when I went to Z31.com and used the search engine and typed in "Z31 factory service manual" it just gave me various posts talking about an FSM. If there is an FSM , there should be a link to it right on the site. And since you so kindly provided me that link, I'm going to make it a sticky for the use of the rest of us that don't have an FSM.


Yeah i couldn't find it either...so i put up a message saying so, and the guy hosting it showed me. There is literally tons of info on the site, and with our new server and reorginization, hopefully it will be tons more accessable.. oh and your going to need a RAr opener with that file.


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## Zen31ZR (Mar 24, 2004)

Domdogg123 said:


> Yeah i couldn't find it either...so i put up a message saying so, and the guy hosting it showed me. There is literally tons of info on the site, and with our new server and reorginization, hopefully it will be tons more accessable.. oh and your going to need a RAr opener with that file.


Yeah I have one, fortunately.  Easy enough to find.


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