# Code 0507 again and it may be the end



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

My engine saga continues to the point that I think I have to get rid
of the car. I know the issue now through trial and error. Last night
got the same code that has been an issue, and sure enough, once again
my PCV valve was clogged from excess blowby. My piston seals are not
doing the job anymore and letting too many combustion gases pass into
the crankcase. This causes a vaseline like substance in the engine oil
which then gets sucked into the PCV valve, clogging it and causing
vacuum issues. Coats the throttle body and intake manifold, and its
just all-around bad news. It still drives great when it runs, but its
causing idling and starting issues which are no good if we only run
one car. I installed an oil catch can yesterday to help but its only
confirmed the sludge blowby. I hardly used the car yesterday, and there was more than a tablespoon of yuck in it when I checked today
What to do? Do I try a piston cleaner? Is there anything to be done other than major expensive engine work. Do I throw money at this or move on and throw money at another vehicle. I am thinking 2011 to 2103 Subaru Forester.


----------



## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

You can't go wrong with a Subaru. I've owned a bunch. 3 Outbacks and 3 SVX. What's your mileage again?


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

223,744 KM with 80% of it daily city driving. 
Guess I am going to try some type of piston cleaning stuff and hope its a partially stuck piston ring that can be freed. At a loss as to what happened, but its been a pain the last couple of months and Rogoman's theory about blowby and engine wear seems confirmed by what I am seeing in the catch can and the failure of everything I have done to fix the issue. Even today after clearing the code and the pcv valve it started up and drove and idled fine. I am sure it will be ok for another couple of days and then this will act up again. Again no coolant in the oil, no bubbles or oil in coolant, engine compression tested good, exhaust smoke is normal, good spark and fuel pressure and no check engine light
Any suggestions on how to proceed?


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well, when I decide I decide-- just bought a 2011 Forester Limited with the exact same mileage as the X. Got it cheap enough that I will be willing to invest it and be confident that it still has more life in it. Its a shame for my X though I will sell it for approx 1500. It drives great when its driving and has far more that is good on it than bad, and I think someone new will be happier to invest in it a bit. For example, if someone was commuting in from Wakefield every morning and getting a good run on the highway rather than being stuck idling in traffic to cross the bridge every morn, I think the car would be great. But at the moment if I do a number of short errands I am not confident it will start well after the 3rd stop, and more importantly, my wife has lost faith in it and is scared of being left stranded if she takes it.
There is a possibility I will keep it as a second car, but having been there and done that many years the truth is the occasions where its needed are pretty rare, neither would get used sufficiently, and it would still engender unneeded expenses. It's surprising me but as attached to the X as I have been, I am now ready to move on and realize it was not going to last forever. 

Huge thanks to Otomodo, X-HALE, Mike, Rogoman and SMJ. Will miss you guys and hope to pop by every now and then but it won't be a hobby of mine anymore.


----------



## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

Good luck with the Forester. What colour did you get?


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Black Pearl w the black leather and winter package, auto and awd. First year they put a timing chain and before they went CVT for the transmission. Nice vehicle once I give it a wash and wax and interior clean. Private sale from a woman whose uncle gave it to her but she finds too big and prefers her Corolla. It needs new tires and pulls slightly to the right, but no leaks anywhere I could see, had dark but good oil just now due for change based on the sticker in the windshield. Got underneath it, flashlight in wheel wells, and thorough check of the exhaust and I don't know where it wintered but there is no rust and only a few paint chips. Carfax checks out. Will have to get it Qc safetied but should pass with my X trail Blizzak winter tires put on the subie rims. I also get to keep my one-year-old Continental all seasons. A friend wants me to sell his one-year-old winter tires that are the 16'' size for the X so I will throw those on mine to sell it. Even with 240,000 kms $3500 for it was a seriously good deal, and leaves fair bit of room for me in case it needs some more serious repairs than I foresee. The husband was a good guy to boot and will drive it over with his uncle on Monday. Was a fun time buying a car. Have a good feeling about it.


----------



## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

That's a very good price for a 2011. I would not be happy with a CVT either. By 2011 Subaru had long since sorted out their head gasket issue.On the 2.0 litre it was never really a problem anyways. I had a Black Pearl '97 Outback LTD with leather. It's a nice colour, especially in the sun. With that many KMs in 8 years you would have to think it had a lot of highway miles too rather than city.


----------



## rogoman (Dec 16, 2004)

Good luck on your Forester Quad. Was glad to help you as best I could. You've acquired a good amount of knowledge on Nissan vehicles so it would be good for you to stop in at the forum and maybe help some "Newbees" with their problems.


----------



## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

Je te souhaite la meilleure des chances avec le subaru. 
Ce fût un plaisir de te lire et d'apprendre à travers tes écritures. 
Au plaisir de te(vous)recroiser. 

Tony


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks for the good wishes guys. Having slept on it, maybe I will keep the X as a second car for a bit. Yesterday it was fine, and late in the aft I decided to take it for a highway run to Wakefield and enjoy the remaining fall foliage, the X drove great. accelerating well up to 140, pulling strongly up hills, steady as she goes on cruise control. It's still a great vehicle that I am sure would drive to Toronto tomorrow if needed.
It has only three issues 1) the sunroof requires you to push the tilt-up button to fully seal when you slide it closed
and 2) the blowby that is affecting the PCV system. 3( I have never properly adjusted the handbrake shoes to work properly but its an automatic and I rarely park on a hill. That is it, every electrical feature works, all lights are good, very minimal rust, and with my seat covers and info system, it has, in my opinion, the nicest interior of any current X trail I have seen. Frankly, I tried to look after it proactively I don't think many others were ever as well maintained and obsessed over. No current check engine light, no pending fault codes, even the gas gauge is now working properly. The oil catch can is working with no vacuum leaks. Just this summer, transmission fluid change, coolant change, oil change, spark plug change, new fuel injectors, front and rear brakes serviced and lubed... It's hard for me to figure what would be an appropriate selling price, and how much you disclose. 
You routinely see used ads that state it needs a windshield, and tires and maybe some other stuff. Price may be cheap but then someone has to be ready to spend 1500 to 2K to make it roadworthy. So perhaps a disclosure that it may require some engine work is not the end of the world. Should I leave the catch can in place or delete it and put back the OE PCV hose and engine cover for appearances? I could always reinstall it on the Subaru.
Thanks for bearing with me guys. It helps me to write out my thoughts


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

otomodo said:


> Je te souhaite la meilleure des chances avec le subaru.
> Ce fût un plaisir de te lire et d'apprendre à travers tes écritures.
> Au plaisir de te(vous)recroiser.
> 
> Tony.


Merci bien et surtout pour ton aide avec mes questions toutes ces années. Ce Forum a beaucoup ajouté a l'experience d'être proprio d'un X trail et j'ai bien aimé le sens de camaraderie que ca m'a apporté.
Cheers
Mike


----------



## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

You would pretty much need to disclose the engine issue. To do otherwise would be dishonest and weigh heavily on your conscience. By mentioning it though you pretty much destroy any chance of selling it. People don't buy cars with engine problems for obvious reasons. You'd be lucky to get $500 for it, if that.It would be basically a parts car.
I bought mine 2 1/2 years ago for $1,900 in near mint shape with 200,000 kms. It passed Quebec safety with flying colours and only needed a rear wheel bearing as it was beginning to rumble.
You could keep it as a second car but will you ever trust it fully to get you home? It's a tough decision.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

X-hale said:


> That's a very good price for a 2011. I would not be happy with a CVT either. By 2011 Subaru had long since sorted out their head gasket issue.On the 2.0 litre it was never really a problem anyways. I had a Black Pearl '97 Outback LTD with leather. It's a nice colour, especially in the sun. With that many KMs in 8 years you would have to think it had a lot of highway miles too rather than city.


That was my thinking and its still basically 30,000 kms or 20,000 miles a year, and I would not be surprised if the car went to Florida or someplace in the winter. I can actually find listings for the same 2011 with less than 100,000 kms for more than 3 times what I paid. A car like that has either sat for long periods or done lots of short trips. Anyway we will see how it goes with the one I got which showed zero codes and none pending
I will say this what a pleasure to see hub assemblies and complete strut assemblies for it and part prices are comparable if not cheaper than for the X. 
My friend is selling me his one-year-old winters on rims 215 65 16 from a Chrysler 300M for $100 so I will put those on the X.
Guess I will sell two sets of 17'' Nissan alloy rims, my spare fuel pump assembly and rear wiper motor and arm on Kijiji.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

I think the scrap value for it will be higher than $500. If you were to drive it you would have no idea it has an issue. Most sellers have zero knowledge about their cars. Its only had something like 6 times it would not start immediately, but in every instance I was able to get it started and drive home fine within 15 minutes or half an hour. Also, keep in mind it is currently plated in QC and that alone is worth an extra 500, as it does not require a safety for a Quebec buyer. All bearings are good by the way and have all been replaced over the past few years with quality parts. Brakes are great, steering tracks true, heat and air con work perfectly, transfer case and rear diff A1, all struts and suspension arms are less than 3 years old, all fluids are fresh, no engine leaks.
I bought an Ontario plated 2002 Acura EL for the nephew last winter for 900 with check engine light on, brake service light on, that had been in a minor accident, had an engine oil leak, and a hole in the catalytic converter. There was something like 30 items required for it to pass safety, and even with me doing a lot of the work it cost $1500 to get everything sorted including some body work. There is always a buyer. My nephew loves the car and I know its safe and a far better vehicle than a neglected 2007 Hyundai Accent it replaced.
The infotainment unit and wired in back up camera will be attractive to someone as will the custom seat covers that are a year old.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

For argument sakes, its in better shape than this one and has 100,000 less clicks. Passed a compression test and a coolant pressure test, no signs the head gasket has failed on mine.





2005 Nissan X-Trail "LE" - Québec plates - Plaqué Québec !


2005 Nissan Top of the line "LE" X-Trail with **VDC** (option only available on the top LE trim leve




www.kijijiautos.ca





Comparable ones are asking over 3K. I really do not think I would be ripping anyone off by asking 1500. I would recommend that any buyer that is not mechanically knowledgeable have it inspected. Anyone wanting a 3 month used car warranty can take their chances and pay 3 to 5,000 at a used car dealer. I have the complete maintenance history since it was new, and it's in the kind of shape that putting in a new engine or having valve work done on it would be worthwhile.


----------



## freewayjoe (Jul 20, 2018)

I too have near 230,000 klms on my Xtrail. Bought it used about 4 years ago and have been very pleased with it so far, with basic routine maintenance, changed out stock bulbs for LED, replaced the windshield, new lite truck tires, new tranny and differential fluids, replaced the cam sensors, upgraded the stereo (which is still fried at the moment). But i was thinking that probably in a few years my now 13 going on 14 year old Xtrail will get replaced by another japanese suv awd....such as a 2016-17 Toyota Rav4 awd. A bit boring and more mainstream, but very very reliable, service and parts much easier to get then the Xtrail, a solid 2.5L 4cyl engine with 176HP, a solid 6 speed automatic , visibility, shape/size/cargo and passenger room similar to Xtrail and the awd system on the Toyota pretty good for light duty city/winter driving (for my personal needs , anyways). I do enjoy my nissan truck, just thinking the truck will be aging and need more expensive maintenance ( and so will I....)......eventually i go the safe middle aged man route and buy a boring reliable , low expenses vehicle that should go easy on the wallet and not have to worry about tracking parts down or long term ownership issues.


----------



## freewayjoe (Jul 20, 2018)

other japanese suv i had in mind to buy used in a few years from now is a 2015-16 mitsubishi Outlander awd. With the small V6. My gas mileage probably suffer compared to a nissan/toyota 2.5L 4cyl, but that increased horsepower and torque be nice. They have a nice ride, very good lockable awd system, reliability on par with a toyota rav4. A friend bought a 2018 Mitsu Outlander with a four cylinder / automatic/awd this year and he extremely pleased with it. Previously he had a then new 2013 or 2014 Mitsubishi RVR ( the stubbier, smaller one) with awd and a 2.0L engine. He gave that vehicle to his son to keep, never had any issues at all since purchasing it new.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

I thought we must have the same friend for a sec, but his 2018 replaced his 2013 Outlander. He likes them for towing his teardrop camper. I agree the RAV is a good vehicle and I like them as long as they are passed 2013 and so have a rear liftgate like the X, rather than the side opening door with the spare tire on it. 
As much as I have rushed to buy the Subie, I will probably also delay selling the X and get some more use from it as an occasional second car, and possibly bring it to a Japanese specialist garage such as Takaki motors who can properly assess it. I am much closer to a Nissan dealer, but I am sorry to say I have no faith in them.
I will say when buying a car from Ontario to register in QC there is a hidden hick up. Despite the price I paid, I have to pay sales tax on the min value established for it by the SAAQ. You save by not paying GST on a private transaction but in my case, they want $809 in QST for a car I paid 3500 for because according to them it's market value is $8100. They tell you, you can pay 200 to have the car evaluated, but when I finally spoke to a guy licensed to do this, I was told it was pointless, and that for cars less than 10 years old they will not budge. The mileage and condition of the car are not considered. Saw this echoed in a post by some guy who bought a used 9-year-old Murano with failed CVT for 1000 and had to pay tax on a 5000 valuation. 
In a couple of weeks, I will compare the Subie and the X in a thread. It's pretty obvious that in a lot of ways Subaru drew on the T30 X for inspiration, but they failed to copy putting the gas filler on the driver's side. And get this irony of ironies, my wife is disappointed in the height of the passenger seat. It's manual unlike the drivers and does not allow you to raise the seat cushion. I am sure they did this for extra safety for the passenger in the event of a crash, but it does feel a little sunk in with a higher beltline.
I had not checked the sound system on it but hey hey it got an upgraded Pioneer sound package with nav, and has lots of good features. Sadly though it has no possibility of plugging in a back up camera, so I may end of changing it later and installing one.
I guess I will see what the Subie is like to maintain, but the boxer engine set up is kind of cool, and looks fairly straightforward to work on. I will be replacing the pcv valve and radiator cap for preventative reasons. Oil change with the filter on top of the engine looks really easy.


----------



## freewayjoe (Jul 20, 2018)

Good choice with the 2011 Forester Limited . I have liked the Subarus going way back, but have never owned one.. The 2011 Forester is a very smart looking suv, has great visibility, car like ride, decent mpg, very similar to our Xtrail in many ways including a 2.5L engine and pretty much the same horsepower. (i base my opinion on having driven customer cars over the years, chatting with customers/owners , body shops/mechanics over the years). When Subaru redesigned the forester for 2014, i kinda liked the new look and interior. But sometimes it comes across as bulky looking and maybe a bit too premium or flashy for some reason. So going back to the non turbo 2011 style, it has a more cleaner, just right athletic look about it. I think you made a good buying choice and will be very pleased with it in the long term. ttps://www.samarins.com/reviews/forester_09.html


----------



## freewayjoe (Jul 20, 2018)

one japanese suv that i wanted to buy before buying my 06 Xtrail was the 08-13 * Nissan Rogues. But there were a few things i disliked that never were improved upon to convince it be a safe, reliable bet such as a rav4/honda crv/subaru or even our older Xtrails. The pitch black interior combined with the dark privacy glass just depresses the hell outta me. The rearward visibility due to the pinched sloping back window * and smallish rear quarter windows add to the misery. The Xtrail was so much better for all around visibility and a pleasant lighter colored interior. But the big negative to me is that damn CVT transmission. Too many problems and likely an expensive hassle with no warranty. After 2014 , the Rogues became bigger, heavier . Nicer to look at, nicer interior ...but became costlier, the same 2.5L engine with pretty much the same horsepower from a 2006 Xtrail ( 167 hp versus Rogues 170hp...nissan should offer more hp/tq in these newer rogues), and they still use that goofy cvt transmission.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

I wrote a post about my test drive of the new Rogue when it came out in 2014, and that it confirmed my preference for the X trail. The Forester is in many ways very similar to the X trail, but having got my hands on it, I hate to say it but Subarus appear better built to last, and the dealer here in Hull right next to Nissan is a completely different experience. The part department was super welcoming and blew me away with the service and the price of the parts I got. Oil filter comes with the crush washer and they only charge $9.09, PCV valve is metal unlike the plastic x trail one and weighs close to 15 grams compared to the 3 gram with the plastic ball bearing , and only $18, and a new radiator cap was $16. Its comparable to RockAuto prices with delivery for real OE parts. They had the stuff in stock. At Nissan most of the time you had to order, and they looked at you as if you were nuts if you asked for a crush washer. You get the feeling there is a culture of repairing and servicing their cars, which is pretty much non existent at the Nissan dealer where its rare to see a car past warranty.
Changed the oil on the Forester today and what a joy it is to have an oil filter on top of the engine, a 19mm drain plug and an oil pan that seems twice as thick as the one on the X. Passed QC safety with flying colours, everything good and no leaks anywhere. Had my winter tires put on and that fixed the alignment issue. The tires on it were pretty much bald but the right front one had 1 proper patch, 2 bad ones and the side walls were delaminating so that was the issue there.
My tire changeover guy had an X trail but gave it to his mother. I was able to trade him the rims for his services now and next spring dismounting the tires from the nissan rims and then dismantling them from the subaru ones and putting the Nissan ones on those, then balancing and installing. Would have cost me 200 now and 200 in the spring anywhere else. So that was a win. I will sell the Maxima rims I use next spring for 250 or 300. I will remove the newer head unit I installed and put back the old cd player radio. And then the X will go to the first person who wants it for 1000 or so. Renewal of those plates is end of November so I have a month to move it.
I guess I could even remove the seat covers for the front and back and put those up for another X trail owner who would like perfectly fitted ones for the front and back seats with all the proper cutouts.
If anyone needs a fuel pump assembly or a rear wiper motor and wiper arm in the Ottawa area, I will let them go cheap.
The new beast


----------



## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

Congrats

You ve made a good choice. 
If the my xtrail need more repairs then it s only value, i would go that route too. 
I m not buying another new car again or a first year/generation car. I brought the xtrail from the dealer with less then 50km on the clock, but the next one will have at least 40k to 50k and not more then 3 years old. 
Since i m doing less then 7k km per year, the brakes are degrading pretty bad. The exhaust leaks at the joint after the catalytic converter. 

Next one for me?
Crosstrek? 6 speed manual
Wrangler? 6 speed manual
Lexus? Nx 200t
Forester? Xt


----------



## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

You can get excellent deals on cars in the 50,000 km range. My wife's BMW is an $80K plus car. We got it for under $35K with less than 48,000 kms on it. That was with an extended BMW warranty included.


----------



## freewayjoe (Jul 20, 2018)

quadraria10 said:


> I wrote a post about my test drive of the new Rogue when it came out in 2014, and that it confirmed my preference for the X trail. The Forester is in many ways very similar to the X trail, but having got my hands on it, I hate to say it but Subarus appear better built to last, and the dealer here in Hull right next to Nissan is a completely different experience. The part department was super welcoming and blew me away with the service and the price of the parts I got. Oil filter comes with the crush washer and they only charge $9.09, PCV valve is metal unlike the plastic x trail one and weighs close to 15 grams compared to the 3 gram with the plastic ball bearing , and only $18, and a new radiator cap was $16. Its comparable to RockAuto prices with delivery for real OE parts. They had the stuff in stock. At Nissan most of the time you had to order, and they looked at you as if you were nuts if you asked for a crush washer. You get the feeling there is a culture of repairing and servicing their cars, which is pretty much non existent at the Nissan dealer where its rare to see a car past warranty.
> Changed the oil on the Forester today and what a joy it is to have an oil filter on top of the engine, a 19mm drain plug and an oil pan that seems twice as thick as the one on the X. Passed QC safety with flying colours, everything good and no leaks anywhere. Had my winter tires put on and that fixed the alignment issue. The tires on it were pretty much bald but the right front one had 1 proper patch, 2 bad ones and the side walls were delaminating so that was the issue there.
> My tire changeover guy had an X trail but gave it to his mother. I was able to trade him the rims for his services now and next spring dismounting the tires from the nissan rims and then dismantling them from the subaru ones and putting the Nissan ones on those, then balancing and installing. Would have cost me 200 now and 200 in the spring anywhere else. So that was a win. I will sell the Maxima rims I use next spring for 250 or 300. I will remove the newer head unit I installed and put back the old cd player radio. And then the X will go to the first person who wants it for 1000 or so. Renewal of those plates is end of November so I have a month to move it.
> I guess I could even remove the seat covers for the front and back and put those up for another X trail owner who would like perfectly fitted ones for the front and back seats with all the proper cutouts.
> ...


Very nice subie, looks like new! With what you said about the Xtrail versus Subaru service/parts and do it yourslf- experiences you went thru, you can see why i mentioned my next suv purchase will likely be a simpler to service/repair/operate a used 2016 Toyota Rav4 awd. I still like my Xtrail and will drive it till that day comes to trade for another, it's a good vehicle and glad i bought it in 2015. I still brag to others how good the Xtrail is for a daily driver japanese suv and recommend to others if in the market to buy a used suv, to consider the Xtrail. But i do caution them about possible service and parts headaches they may encounter. Anyways, good choice with your Subaru and happy motoring !


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi Otomodo, we bought ours with 60,000 km in june 2009, and up until 2 months ago its been great. Still pretty good but now sometimes harder to start when warm. Its beyond my amateur mechanic skills and I do not want the hassle or expense of bringing it to a Japanese specialist in Ottawa, I will price it at 1500 which is half the amount or less others with the same mileage are going for at used dealers.
I am not going to figure the engine is toast, as it is not smoking or misfiring and it runs and accelerates well. For all I know, 500 or 600 of engine work may be all that is needed. In perspective, a faulty oil cooler replacement is normally over $700, same for two struts being replaced, and if you do it like I did at the dealer it would be over $1000, just the boots are over $100. Need to replace the exhaust from the front cat back and you are looking at 1K, or the front cat manifold replacement for most is an 800 to 1 K repair. A bad transfer case is a couple of grand. Bad alternator and battery will set you back 750 or more. Complete brake job per axle at most places is $600. Heck, a synthetic oil change is $80. Whoever buys mine will be buying an older car that will require more maintenance and repair expenses than a new one, or they can kill it with abuse, and it will still be cheap for a vehicle of its kind. But its going to be hard to find another X whose owner gave it the attention I did. It has the odd creak and squeak but the suspension is still super nice and it still handles well. Not many X trails have had all the rears suspension arms changed, all the struts, and the front control arms changed within the past 3 years.
Anyway knowing the current generation, most will be more focussed on the infotainment nav system w back up camera during their test drive than they will be on the mechanical quality of the vehicle. I would not be surprised if someone buys it to fix and resell afterwards. I have a dog walking friend who bought a used Escape in the spring with a badly rusted subframe and rotten wheel wells, he did not know and it lasted 2 months for 1.5 K. He then bought a 2006 Honda Element for 3K and has had to spend 2.5K getting it fixed up, and he loves the thing. We will see how he feels in a year's time. The X in worst-case scenario has a scrap value of almost $600 and is in demand. So I will see how it goes, and I don't feel I will be saddling anyone with a horrible financial decision.
I will put the winter tires on it this weekend, and someone can have a great winter vehicle in terms of driving, traction and stopping with good visibility to boot.

And Freeway Joe-- here is a good winter comparison video




As for the Subie, it drives like new on the 1 year Blizzaks, or at least as well as the X did 10 years ago, but I am blown away by my luck. I think it commuted from Brampton to Toronto every day, and by the looks of things went from a garage to indoor parking in a milder climate than our region. Based upon warranty requirements it would have seen the dealer at least 4 times a year. Compare that to my step father's 2019 one-year-old one that he has now put 7K on. It is about to get its first oil change! Does lots of little trips, some longer few hour drives, and sits in the garage for 3 months in the winter. In four years it will probably have had 4 oil changes. By contrast by 5 years of age, mine had seen the dealer at least 20 times to maintain its warranty coverage.
I am trying to get the records on mine from Subaru. I am curious if the engine was ever replaced because despite being over 2K past its oil change mileage, I poured off 5 L of oil and put 5 back in. It does not appear to be burning oil and there are no oil leaks or oil seeping anywhere.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

I will say that I think we are at that tipping point in terms of age where sadly the X trails are going to be disappearing much like the R50 Pathfinders which are becoming very rare on the roads here. I have also noticed that the first two generations of Hyundai Santa Fe have pretty much disappeared. Given 5 months of cold starts a year and frigid temps 15 years seems the upper limit for most daily driving cars.
Sure there are diesel 2001 in Europe still going, and maybe in Australia as well, but I think we have to face the fact that Canada's climate is tougher and it has consequences in terms of vehicle longevity.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

The poor old girl is being replaced by a younger babe but I still have feelings for the X trail. I was in Ottawa and stopped in at Takaki Motors over the noon hour. Used to take our Hondas there in the 80s when we lived downtown. Takeshi is still there and I got to talk to him. What a great guy. He took twenty minutes to talk to me and asked me to let him know how it goes as payment. Basically I went over my story with him, and he seems to agree that I have replaced stuff unnecessarily and for him, my theory of the sludge and the PCV valve may indicate other problems but he said its normal for some to be produced and that really should not cause the no start or erratic idle issues and that the likelihood is the throttle body. He says the Nissan ones are fairly fragile with spring issues, and he attended a seminar on them and it affects numerous Nissans. Given that it has gas, spark, compression, and supposedly no air leaks, and the fact that I replaced mine with another old one from Kenny U pull, he feels its likely that is the issue.
Otherwise, if I want him to do a deep dive and figure out what is going on, I have to leave and pay for 3 hours of diagnosis time and he will go over everything. Off the top of his head, he said he thinks the price for the throttle is about $600. I told him I saw a few Hitachi ones remaining on Rock Auto for $150 or so, and he suggested that given I know how to install a new one and do the relearn procedures.I should go for it and let him know as that is what he thinks he would be replacing.
Of course, he said if you can start even with having to give it a couple of tries with a bit of gas applied, you can always sell it and let someone else worry. Anyway the long and short is I have ordered one, and will try it. If it cures the issue I am asking $2500 for the car. Maybe nuts but I don't think any buyer would have a way of fixing it for anywhere near $150 otherwise. I think its worth the gamble. Wonder if I can return the throttle body if it doesn't work?
Hope you guys are enjoying the saga!.


----------



## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

That would be great if you could fix it for $150. Rockauto won't take it back if there are signs of it being installed.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well, I should figure out how to upload a video. I just tore my old throttle body apart. Had to drill out the rivets holding it together. Inside unlike other videos of bad ones on youtube, it was pristine. No oil in it. Electrical contacts all clean, and the gear parts all look good. When I turn them the spring compresses and opens the throttle body valve and it springs shut when I release it. But in playing with it , and I filmed it, where it has a stop, every now and then the spring mechanism catches holding it closed and it doesn't spring back to where it should be. Unless I am forcing it to do a movement it should not, there is something with the spring that is not quite operating right. And when I look at this



http://www.hitachi-automotive.co.jp/en/products/aftpro/parts_search/pdf/etb_instructions_eng.pdf



it all makes more sense that a no start could result from an intermittent failure of the throttle plate sticking shut. Even more so when I saw that it kind of releases on its own with a little movement-- you will see on the video when I post it. I think I made the error of concluding a pulled electronics part could not be bad the same way as mine. This has been a real learning adventure both from what I have done right and the dumb things I have done wrong.

Thanks for the support X-Hale. If it doesn't work, you can come by and get it for yours cheap!
Hey==Found the service manual for the Forester and I must say
its very similar to the X trail in terms of the way the interior is assembled. I am going to be able to replace the head unit and install a rearview camera in it pretty much the exact same way I did in the X.


----------



## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

That is why the mechanic told you to give some gas when cranking.
Come on,one last push and it will start again. 
Mine didn't start this morning lol, dead battery was the cause. 
This suv doesn't like to be a second vehicle or a third. 
After the first snow or December 1st the motorcycle will be put aside.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

That's a pain Otomodo. Weather does seem to have turned. I will console myself that mine has never had any of the electrical issues you have had.
Not sure what mechanic said to give it gas when cranking. Its always been getting gas ( been convinced of that since replacing the fuel pump pointlessly, just sometimes does not want to start, and sometimes the idle goes nuts in park or neutral. When I get the video up I think you will see what is happening.


----------



## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

quadraria10 said:


> Of course, he said if you can start even with having to give it a couple of tries with a bit of gas applied




Here


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Ah-- I understand, but the problem is not gas but the throttle plate sticking, and not always going to the right position. If its stuck the car wont start but pushing the pedal activates the throttle body motor and my guess is that it unclicks goes back to position and if its not too flooded it will start. 
Mind you I have been wrong before lol


----------



## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

Maybe i should have said" that's why he told you to depress the gas pedal" instead. 
I replied too fast not choosing the best words to describe my thoughts. 
My head has been solicited a lot lately and new problems need new solutions. 

Yesterday i regretted not taking the motorcycle to workand letting the xtrail parked in the driveway. When i putted in park and turned the lights off, i heard a buzz by my left foot. I turned the engine off and it stopped. Later on started the engine and there was no buzz. I putted on drive,released the parking brake and there was the buzz again. It came to me to check the day lights and they were off. 
I guess i have to read all the info on that here on the forum and get on with it.

One last thing
The roof between the two containers has been blown away by the strong winds we had. My wife told me to park the xtrail at the right place next time. She really wants another (zzzzzzz)Lexus.
(The xtrail is not in the photo, but the motorcycle is between the 2 Hyundai's)


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

I guess we cant see the Motoguzzi in the picture? And shame on your wife for wanting death and destruction to the X trail!
That is your daytime running light module that has failed. I wrote a thread about replacing mine and gave a list of the different models its in. If you go pick one at a junkard they are easy to find. I think it cost $8. First I took from another Xtrail and it lasted about a year. The latest one has been in there for two years now and I took it from a 2003 Quest, it was in the engine bay back left side. Also on a bunch of Infiniti and Maxima from 2003-07 I think its in the engine bay right front side. 
Take yours out or look at a pic of one, so you know the type. You just need to transfer the mounting bracket from yours.
Its one 10 or 12 mm bolt. Easy job for you!


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Here is the video of the innards of the throttle body


----------



## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

otomodo you have a Moto Guzzi? What kind? I have a 2012 Norge GT 8V 1200 (which you likely know already).


----------



## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

X-hale said:


> otomodo you have a Moto Guzzi? What kind? I have a 2012 Norge GT 8V 1200 (which you likely know already).


Lol
No i don't have a moto guzzi  .
I can't see the signature of any user on the forum because i use Tapatalk on my phone. Sometimes this app doesn't connect to the forum and i have to log in with firefox. After logging in on the web, i can see signatures,where you come from and other details. 
The Guzzi was on my wishlist after my crash back in 2008. I almost put a cashdown on a Griso at a dealer in Ottawa(near princess auto). I didn't know if they were reliable and there was no dealer near my place. 
At the Montreal motorcycle show back then, we loved the look and the feel of the Norge and dreamed about it, but never made the move.The Ducati Multistrada was an option, but a high maintenance motorcycle was not an option. 
I love the sound of a twin and soon maybe i ll make the move. Here's a photo of my bike.








1000cc of brutal power,arms stretching and close calls. 
Inline 4, 130hp at the wheel, beautiful sound making you give more gas, making more beautiful sound,......

Next time maybe a Griso 1200....










Sorry to highjack your thread Quad... Somebody talked about motorcycles


----------



## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

They are extremely reliable. Especially the Norge or Griso. They don't make either of them any more because of Euro pollution specs. There are a few new ones left.
Here's an incredible deal...https://www.kijiji.ca/v-moto-touring/longueuil-rive-sud/2016-guzzi-norge-1200-gt-abs/1456172439
I paid $9,500 for mine 2 years ago with 20,000 km. The one in the link only has 6,600 km and is half the price of a new one.
There's this rare brown one too...https://www.kijiji.ca/v-moto-sport-promenade/ville-de-quebec/moto-guzzi-norge-1200-2014/1409723167
Also sorry for the hijack.
P.S. Mine looks the one in your picture but has a red Corbin seat and 120hp at the wheel


----------



## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

X-hale said:


> They are extremely reliable. Especially the Norge or Griso. They don't make either of them any more because of Euro pollution specs. There are a few new ones left.
> Here's an incredible deal...https://www.kijiji.ca/v-moto-touring/longueuil-rive-sud/2016-guzzi-norge-1200-gt-abs/1456172439
> I paid $9,500 for mine 2 years ago with 20,000 km. The one in the link only has 6,600 km and is half the price of a new one.
> There's this rare brown one too...https://www.kijiji.ca/v-moto-sport-promenade/ville-de-quebec/moto-guzzi-norge-1200-2014/1409723167
> ...


Beautiful bikes. 

I love the last one, beautiful color and setup. 

My other option Suzuki m109r. At 163cm tall, i m limited by the height of the seat of the cruisers.


----------



## molly (Oct 31, 2014)

Wow, Quad! I just went on here this morning to post a question and saw your post, and thought "Oh no!!".... Then I read you are trying to fix the old girl, which is great. But now you will be a Subaru guy and along with many on here, I will sure miss your advice! You have been a savior for my Little Silver Bus several times! I think next year we will sell ours while it is saleable but Hubby and I both quite like the X-Trail so may get another one. It is not great, however, in the strong crosswinds we enjoy down here due to its squared body design but otherwise, it is super fun to drive. In the meantime, bonne chance et merci beaucoup!!!


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks Molly. My X is the dealership since yesterday waiting for an opening to have the idle relearn done. I have simply not been able to do the relearn myself, as without an indoor garage, and the cold weather we are experiencing I cannot match the needed parameters for it to work. I was also advised by a really good Japanese specialist mechanic that Nissan Consult would be the best to use for the procedure. 
Its always fun listening to them tell me all of the things it could or might be, from stretched timing chain to bad ecu. Then another guy chimed in that the relearn can be super easy to do and take 15 minutes or tough and take 5 hours.
I told them I would be willing to pay for 2 hours but I do not want them opening up the motor. I don't have an appt though, they have accepted that I leave it there and hopefully, it can be looked at between appts. Earliest you can get an actual appt right now is dec 16th.
I feel a bit guilty after advising you to fix yours, but in your case when I looked for used vehicles there were a lot of crappy vehicles that were the same age or older than yours. I have been lucky and found a super well maintained 2011 Forester. Which is a better vehicle than the X trail but not by that much. In fact, they are far more alike than you would suspect. Feels very much like the X inside.
I want the X to go to a good home though, which is why I am giving it the college try and spending some more on it.
Hopefully, I will get some good news about it today.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well two days now at Nissan, and they have moved it further back in their lot but they still have not looked at it and I am pissed. I am going to be happy to say FU to Nissan. I have a twenty-year client file with that dealer, and they are willing to leave me stuck until mid-December claiming they are all booked up.
Master techs I guess are booked doing tire changes? If any client suffers a breakdown of some type or needs a repair or diagnosis they are supposed to wait a month?. The whole attitude is too much for me, and this at supposedly one of the best Nissan dealerships in the region. I am going to have to go and take the car out of there and keep trying myself even if it means finding a heated paid garage to do it in.
Frankly, this whole idle relearn process seems like such compete bs to me. Why would something be engineered this way, and why make it so finicky. I wish I could just reset the ECU to its original settings and let it learn from there. Now that I have found them there is a ton idle relearn videos for Nissans and tons of comments from people having a hard time doing it. This affects 2014 or 15 as much as a 2002 or a 2006, and the same problems persists.


----------



## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

They are intentionally a PITA so you need to go to the dealer. If you think wait times are bad at Nissan, try a BMW dealer. You'd think buying an $80,000 car would get you some service, nope doesn't work that way.They even want money for a loaner! We brought our Bimmer to the dealer until the warranty expired and never spoke to them again.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

I think you are right X-Hale. Three days now and not a peep. I would have thought this was a job a dealer tech would leap at. Basically drive the car to warm it up, bring it into the garage, hook Consult in the OBD reader port and go to town. If it takes him 20 min or half an hour, he can charge an hour I am sure. Anyway, I understand they are busy but this crap of maybe taking a month to look at the vehicle is a bit much. I will call them again this morn, and either get a commitment an attempt at relearning will be done today, or I am just going to get it out of there and try to do the procedure again a few times or more in a heated garage.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well, I take it all back. I just got a call. They took it in last night so it could be warm this morning, Did the idle relearn first thing, and it worked like a charm. Off to pick it up in the next hour. Hull Nissan are champs!
And now that I am back, even better than I thought. The x is driving great. And the best part for me is that all the work I did was good, and I even did finally diagnose the issue, it was just the idle relearn that could not be performed outside in cold weather.
Simon at Hull Nissan told me, the mechanic let it idle for 20 minutes while he worked on something else, then hooked it up and 5 minutes later the idle relearn was complete. Grand total charge including taxes was $60.33.
I also heard from him that the X was one of the best Nissans, and that the 2.5 in them has been very good. He also confirmed that the Hitachi throttle body from RockAuto was the same as the Nissan one should anyone be in need of one. Just be prepared for the fun of the idle relearn. It has been a learning experience that is for sure.


----------



## X-hale (Apr 17, 2017)

Great news! I'm glad it finally worked.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Yup I am thrilled it finally worked. And now you may not be rid of me after all as my wife is thinking that maybe we should keep it as a second car, with the Subaru being her primary vehicle lol. We will see how it goes, but today not sure if its the new throttle body, the new injectors , or the new plugs, or probably the combo of them all, but man was it running great, and idling super smooth in town after the highway run. Its probably going to get the best gas mileage its had in years. Even the awd and abs were working great. Don't have snow tires on it yet but the almost new Continentals are great in this kind of weather anyway.
And to make Molly jealous I just picked up a beautiful set of 215 65 16 Toyo ObserveGi5s with 90% tread left for $100.


----------



## otomodo (May 23, 2008)

Congrats
Perseverance was the key. 
You didn't let it go that easy. T as(vous avez)pas lâché le morceau.


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Perseverance, stubbornness, or just flat out refusal to let go who knows? I will say this though, I now know a lot more about engines and have more confidence in my mechanical abilities. The most frustrating thing for me was the doubt that I had reassembled everything correctly. To think what was finally required cost me $210-- 150 for the throttle body, 15 minutes to install it and 60 at the dealer. I suspect there are Nissans that have been sent to the junkyard with similar issues when faced with the initial diagnosis costs when there are no codes when most garages seem incapable or unwilling to even work on it, and when the dealer repair will be over $1000 with no guarantees it will resolve your issues.
I have a better understanding now of why there are so many nice non totaled cars at Kenny U Pull lots. Most are there because of a bit of servicing neglect, and one relatively expensive repair needed. They are there because the judgment was made that it was too expensive to repair, not because they cannot be repaired.


----------



## molly (Oct 31, 2014)

quadraria10 said:


> And to make Molly jealous I just picked up a beautiful set of 215 65 16 Toyo ObserveGi5s with 90% tread left for $100.


Yes, I am jealous!!  But glad everything worked out for you, and I know you sold the old gal! The Nissan, I mean...


----------



## quadraria10 (Jul 6, 2010)

Yup, the poor old girl has been put out to country life. Heard the new owner used it for 10 trips to the dump and marveled over its ability to go up his icy dirt road even without using the AWD. Its cushy life may be over lol.


----------

