# 368 WHP, my car sucks!



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Just got back from R&D Dyno trying to tune my turbo classic with an F-Max kit and S-3 cams.

I was only able to get 368 hp and 327 ft/lbs of torque @ 22 psi of boost. I am very dispointed because most of the F-Max cars I helped build or tune get anywhere from 395-410 wheel hp at this boost level and my set up is identical to my formula for a 400 WHP SR20DE with a couple of exceptions.

I usualy recomend a custom 3" downpipe and I usualy hand port the crap out of the turbine housing, then extrude hone it. My car is a straight up stock F-Max kit with a larger than stock front mount intercooler, 2.5" down pipe and stock unported turbo. I think I have too much backpressure which is hurting my peak power.

It really sucks that every turbo car I helped set up is significantly more powerful than mine! I have a 3" downpipe, Tial wastegate and a ported manifold and ported& extrude honed turbine housing sitting in the garage. I am gonna install these and see if my power will then fall in line with what its supposed to be.

On thing I noticed is that with the big FMIC, the power is really consistant, all of my runs were within 1 hp of each other.

I am supposed to be an expert at this stuff, too bad I suck.

Mike


----------



## psshhgoesmysr20 (May 1, 2002)

I'm really sorry to hear that Mike, hopefully when you replace those parts you will increase your HP numbers, How is your timing? I'm sure you know timing is critical on turbo cars. Good luck on your quest for the missing HP. 

PS when you hand port a turbo, do you use a dremel? What are the areas most concentrated on? I'm coming back for 15 days in November, I really need to get to work on my car. After I get done with my TG brake, I'll have 4 months left in Italy before I get back to my baby. My goal is simply to do it right this time .


----------



## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

> I am supposed to be an expert at this stuff, too bad I suck


ROFLMAO. In whos eyes? Sure as hell not too many people in the community.

Mike you dont suck, you just put others first. Thats cool in my book. I guess that old saying in an automotive shop doesnt apply to you, at least I hope not. LOL j/k

"When you work on someone elses car, do is as if it were your own."


I'm sure youll get it to where you want it, and be cool enough to share your findings with us like always.(Like the large IC finding).
What I am really interested in is that "big" motor I have heard about. I'm sure all the other tech freaks like me are itching to hear whats going into it and why.


----------



## Jackson Diamond (Apr 30, 2002)

Thanks Mike!!!! Now i dont feel so bad with 321hp at 17psi.J.K.

But is porting a turbo really that essintial? I have a stage 5 with the turbine housing extrude honed. Should i port it? I am interested to see you results after you go back. 

Thats still not to bad. 368hp
Just look at it this way, you have more hp than people that paid 3X's the price of your car.


----------



## psshhgoesmysr20 (May 1, 2002)

Mike, which manifold are you using with your turbo car?


----------



## Slow 96R (Jul 18, 2002)

I usualy recomend a custom 3" downpipe and I usualy hand port the crap out of the turbine housing, then extrude hone it. My car is a straight up stock F-Max kit with a larger than stock front mount intercooler, 2.5" down pipe and stock unported turbo. I think I have too much backpressure which is hurting my peak power.

It really sucks that every turbo car I helped set up is significantly more powerful than mine! I have a 3" downpipe, Tial wastegate and a ported manifold and ported& extrude honed turbine housing sitting in the garage. I am gonna install these and see if my power will then fall in line with what its supposed to be.

Well if you dynoed with a 2.5 exhaust also along with the 2.5 downpipe, there is allot of your hp lost right there. I went to 3 inch exhaust and gained loads of power on my t28  At your boost levels you'll definetely hit 400 + with the larger exhaust.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

psshhgoesmysr20 said:


> *I'm really sorry to hear that Mike, hopefully when you replace those parts you will increase your HP numbers, How is your timing? I'm sure you know timing is critical on turbo cars. Good luck on your quest for the missing HP.
> 
> PS when you hand port a turbo, do you use a dremel? What are the areas most concentrated on? I'm coming back for 15 days in November, I really need to get to work on my car. After I get done with my TG brake, I'll have 4 months left in Italy before I get back to my baby. My goal is simply to do it right this time . *


I am running 26 degrees total timing accros the top of the powerband and about 23 degrees around the torque peak.

I use an air die grinder to port the housing. I take out all the bolt clearance bumps, smooth out where the wastegate port is and thin down the tounge area of the housing. I open it up to gasket size and basicaly keep the trapzoidal shape, just make it a litlle bigger.

When you are on leave, come on down if you have time, and I will show you where I port the housing.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Jackson Diamond said:


> *Thanks Mike!!!! Now i dont feel so bad with 321hp at 17psi.J.K.
> 
> But is porting a turbo really that essintial? I have a stage 5 with the turbine housing extrude honed. Should i port it? I am interested to see you results after you go back.
> 
> ...


I found that extrude honing alone doesnt open up the housing the way I want it to be. I figure the only differences between my car and my firends are the 3" downpipe and the porting and extrude honing so I am hoping thats the main difference.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

psshhgoesmysr20 said:


> *Mike, which manifold are you using with your turbo car? *


Regular off the shell F-Max log manifold, not a super trick one like yours.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: 368 WHP, my car sucks!*



Slow 96R said:


> *
> Well if you dynoed with a 2.5 exhaust also along with the 2.5 downpipe, there is allot of your hp lost right there. I went to 3 inch exhaust and gained loads of power on my t28  At your boost levels you'll definetely hit 400 + with the larger exhaust. *


My exhaust is 3" after the downpipe. I think the small downpipe in the area of the wastegate discharge port is hurting me a lot.

Mike


----------



## psshhgoesmysr20 (May 1, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *When you are on leave, come on down if you have time, and I will show you where I port the housing.
> 
> Mike *


 I would be honored if you aren't busy, I definitely have the time.


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

psshhgoesmysr20 said:


> *I would be honored if you aren't busy, I definitely have the time. *


Let me know when you are back in the states then.

Mike


----------



## andre (Apr 30, 2002)

Wow...I got 97 WHP...guess my car blows...cause it cant suck anymore. 




morepower2 said:


> *I am supposed to be an expert at this stuff, too bad I suck.
> 
> Mike *


Damn...a statement like that should be framed and put on a wall somewhere.  j/k I respect your work.

But enough of the fun and games. Mike I'm sure that if you compared your setup to the ones you did previously, you'll see the problem staring at you.


----------



## psshhgoesmysr20 (May 1, 2002)

morepower2 said:


> *Let me know when you are back in the states then.
> 
> Mike *


NOV 22- DEC 06


----------



## Jackson Diamond (Apr 30, 2002)

Mike by any chance do you have pics to post of the housing? I think i will do this next time i have the turbo off. 

Also are you still making the carbon fiber hoods?


----------



## sentraturbo (Sep 20, 2002)

hey mike...

great numbers... i hope to be hitting those numbers very soon also... do you by chance have a shop??? i need to get my car dyno tuned... thanks...


----------



## Thomas Reynolds (May 1, 2002)

Mike, 

Now you can relate to how I feel after my dyno sessions. I was expecting what everyone else is putting down with the same setup but are 25hp shy of it. 

One thing you can do as I have is start overlaying dyno charts from other people with very similar setups. JWT recently sent me one dyno chart from a customer as well as some I have from a few people like Shawn Nielson. Use the dynojet software to overlay them and look for differences. 

Overlaying 2 of your own dyno charts with different boost levels, i.e. 7 and 10psi shows me where boost just starts to build. Then I overlay the same chart from say Shawn at the same boost level and study it. 

You know Mike this may be quite radical but one last suggestion that you have the luxury I don't have is to get someone with the same setup as yours to swap parts with you at a dyno session. Swap ecu's, then dyno. Swap downpipes, dyno. Turbo, etc... That would be the EASIEST way. Why not try that? It may be time consuming but I betcha you'll find it. These other turbo guys owe you at least that much in return.

Good luck.


----------



## v8killer (Oct 19, 2002)

Mike,

What A/F ratios are you seeing across the board here? Here is why I ask. There are a few people here in Tampa with Silvia SR20DETs, stock cams, stock intake manifolds, etc....with the 0.63 A/R turbine housing, who are making around 374 whp and still using 555cc injectors at 3 bar fuel pressure. These guys tune the A/F ratio to a very consistent 12:1 at 20 psi on pump gas using a SAFC and DET ECU. 

And, I always thought the max you could get from the 0.63 housing was 320 whp at 20 psi. I guess they proved that to be different. Maybe the A/F ratios they are tuning with are on the "edge" and not safe for everyday use. What do you think about this?

By the way, they recently switched to the 0.82 housing and made 410 whp at 22 psi with the stock DET cams and 555's at 3 bar fuel pressure. Injector duty cycle was at around 90-95%.

Any input is welcomed!


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

psshhgoesmysr20 said:


> *NOV 22- DEC 06 *


E-mail me when you get back.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Jackson Diamond said:


> *Mike by any chance do you have pics to post of the housing? I think i will do this next time i have the turbo off.
> 
> Also are you still making the carbon fiber hoods? *


You mean a ported housing? I might have one around. Yes I am still working on the carbon hoods. We had a bit of a delay, the body shop we were using to paint our first mold damaged it so we are building a new mold.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

sentraturbo said:


> *hey mike...
> 
> great numbers... i hope to be hitting those numbers very soon also... do you by chance have a shop??? i need to get my car dyno tuned... thanks... *


I am very dispointed with the number, they are actualy the worst I have ever gotten out of a turbo SE-R. No I don't have a shop. I only work on close friends cars because I don't want to get sued or hassels.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

Thomas Reynolds said:


> *Mike,
> 
> You know Mike this may be quite radical but one last suggestion that you have the luxury I don't have is to get someone with the same setup as yours to swap parts with you at a dyno session. Swap ecu's, then dyno. Swap downpipes, dyno. Turbo, etc... That would be the EASIEST way. Why not try that? It may be time consuming but I betcha you'll find it. These other turbo guys owe you at least that much in return.
> 
> Good luck. *


I have the parts that are different between my car and my friends but I want to see what the difference was between the Mike Spec F-Max kit and an off the shelf F-Max.

Mike


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

v8killer said:


> *Mike,
> 
> What A/F ratios are you seeing across the board here? Here is why I ask. There are a few people here in Tampa with Silvia SR20DETs, stock cams, stock intake manifolds, etc....with the 0.63 A/R turbine housing, who are making around 374 whp and still using 555cc injectors at 3 bar fuel pressure. These guys tune the A/F ratio to a very consistent 12:1 at 20 psi on pump gas using a SAFC and DET ECU.
> 
> ...


----------



## hybrid DET (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: 368 WHP, my car sucks!*



andre said:


> *Wow...I got 97 WHP...guess my car blows...cause it cant suck anymore.
> *


mine must swallow then.


----------



## chimmike (Oct 17, 2002)

Mike-
I'm jealous. I want your car! LOL.............don't feel bad man, you've got more hp than so many cars, especially sentras........it's not even funny


----------



## morepower2 (Apr 19, 2002)

chimmike said:


> *Mike-
> I'm jealous. I want your car! LOL.............don't feel bad man, you've got more hp than so many cars, especially sentras........it's not even funny *


I am just bummed that all my friends cars, that I helped set up and spec make more power than my own car!

Mike


----------



## PatScottAKA99XE (Apr 30, 2002)

Mike,
To reword my quote earlier in this thread.

"When working on your own car, treat like you would someone elses"

There that fits you.  

It is truly nice to know that there are people out there that do great work on their own stuff, and even better on others stuff. Thats how I try to be a work(auto tech). We should all be so lucky to find someone like that to wrench on our cars.


----------



## wes (Apr 30, 2002)

*HAHA*

Clearly your your own worst critic! 

Anyway, at least you remember to tighten lug nuts


----------

